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Whose Cameras Are Watching New York Roads?
NormalVisual writes "License-plate reading cameras are popping up on utility poles all over St. Lawrence County in upstate New York, but no one is willing to say who they belong to. One camera was found by a utility crew, removed from the pole, and given to the local police. 'Massena Police Chief Timmy Currier said he returned it to the owner, but wouldn't say how he knew who the owner was, nor would he say who he gave it to....(Andrew) McMahon, the superintendent at Massena Electric Department, said one of his crews found a box on one of their poles and took it down because "it was in the electric space," the top tier of wires on the pole above the telephone and cable TV wires, and whoever put it there had taken a chance with electrocution. He said they had never received a request or been informed about its placement.'"
If they didn't have authorization from the city/etc then not only were they doing something a bit on the dangerous side, but its also illegal.
If they did, then its part of the city network anyway and not a huge deal.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm not as worried about the existence of the cameras as I am that lots of people seem to know whose they are and no one's telling. That's kind of the antithesis of government transparency. I hope someone sues under FOIA.
For linux tips: http://www.linuxtipsblog.com
My first thought was that the Black Chamber might be implementing their own version of SCORPION STARE, but then it occurred to me that they wouldn't be this incompetent about it. So maybe there's some other party involved- it is still possible that these are loaded with basilisk technology.
And start smashing. See who comes calling.
File an official request demanding that they release any pertinent information related to the owner/operator of those cameras. There is no legal basis for them to deny you that information (operational security or an active investigation).
These camera units have to have some sort of clue about their owner(unless they are configured in the not-so-terribly-useful 'record only to local storage, somebody climbs up when it is time to collect" mode). Are they connected to fixed wiring? Do they have a data radio of some flavor? WiFi? Cellular? Any SIM card to be pulled? Serial numbers, vendor information, dates of manufacture, etc, etc.
Unless somebody went to considerable trouble to do this in some deep-black-ops kind of way, they should leak clues like a sieve once somebody just gives the cops the finger and takes one apart...
It's DHS. Canadian border right?
...can burn out some CCDs, or at least temporarily "blind" them.
And now I'm expecting a visit from DHS for disseminating easily available info. It's been nice not knowing you.
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
It's the DEA. Doing the same thing outside of California. Logging traffic to find patterns of drug runners across the border.
I live in Watertown, which is in the county south of St. Lawrence. Our local online newswank (newzjunky.com) has a few stories confirming this--federal grants funding license plate readers used by law enforcement for various and sundry tracking tasks, including mapping drug runners and catching local burglars.
Looks like a standard cellular antenna on top in the photo, so very likely a SIM card. Serial number on the camera and processor. And very likely a sticker in the cabinet that says "If found please Return to DHS. And keep your mouth shut Or Else". Although wouldnt surprise me if the phone was already ringing on the Captains desk when the box showed up.
This is why scientists have to get their studied approved by institutional review boards: to make sure the study subjects don't have their rights violated.
So I doubt this is being done for science.
If being constantly monitored has the aim of keeping a local populace in line, imagine what it would do for our politicians...
Who will watch the watchers?
Why, us of course! Why don't we just do what the government TELLS US to do and monitor everything around us, like this stuff, so that when push comes to shove we have evidence of who is doing stuff like this.
We keep digging in our heels, but why? If they want massive surveillance let us give it to them and see the shithammer that comes down sooner or later.
-
To be fair, if the data is being collected by scientists conducting a study, I find it diffictult to determine whose rights are being violated. If the data is not being used by law enforcement, then I would say that scientists have a right to take pictures of passing cars (if they have permission to install the cameras of course).
Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
...you're risking the security of the country. Americans can't handle the truth, and the less they know about the dark side of terrorism or the drug trade flowing into the US, the better. It's easier to deal with in obscurity than with the partisan press making it hard for the security of our country to be kept up.
(I kid, but the sad part is that there are some out there that would actually agree with that sentiment 100%...)
Homeland Security agressively patrols that area since it borders Canada and has a international crossing at Cornwall. I've been stopped at road blocks hosted jointly by NYS Police & Homeland Security. The State Police stayed in the background while my car was singled out by Homeland Security for a walk-around sniff by their dog and an uncomfortable amount of questioning. I'm an old Unix admin who does not resemble a terrorist in the slightest. Also worth noting that that St. Regis Native American Reservation sits on both sides of the border there. Perhaps someone is trying to keep tabs on them??
shoot em with a painball gun, just hit the lens, paintball wont cause permanent damage but it would force the owners to send out a crew to clean them, do it enough times and the cameras are no longer cost effective to the ticket happy privateers
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-- Mark Twain
And let them watch you shit.
They are watching for smuggling, both ways. Into and out of Canada.
The reservation is on both sides of the river.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akwesasne
http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2009/07/more-from-the-frontier-largest-northern-new-york-drug-bust-ever.html
This is just what they catch, and they aren't looking too closely, or haven't in the past. Very quiet there. I'm very familiar with the area and it has always been a smugglers paradise, prohibition til now. A lot of old Victorian houses up there have secret hidden rooms. If you ask the homeowner why they are there, they usually claim for the underground railroad. BS, these houses were built after the civil war, and most in the 1920's. Huge fortunes were made moving booze.
Everyone there knows what's going on. My best estimate is that 50% of the imported drugs on the east cost come in to the country from there.
There was also a huge case in the late 90's where a 1-2 billion dollar a year cigarette smuggling ring (moving the cigs north, into canada) was broken up. Phillip Morris had several execs indited.
Big business.
My guess on the agency, in order of likelihood.
DEA
ATF
Border Patrol
FBI
DHS (using parts of the above)
Canada, with support from any of the above.
It's the DEA. Doing the same thing outside of California. Logging traffic to find patterns of drug runners across the border.
ANPR seems like a huge violation of both the right to travel freely and the right to be free of unreasonable searches. We've gone from a model where license plates were used after the fact of a crime to where they are used when there is absolutely no suspicion of wrong-doing. That's not the bargain we signed up for when license plates were first made mandatory.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
how do you know that they read number plates? may be your basic CCTV?
There was an unknown error in the submission.
I went to the link, and saw the PhotoBlocker product line. Interesting. But I get a 404 error on all of their "buy" buttons. Even more interesting.... /adjusts tinfoil hat/
And voting for Romney with the expectation that he wouldn't be any better, i.e. worse, would be what?
It would be sending a message to politicians: perform or be thrown out. No consideration for party, no consideration for platform, no consideration for being a nice guy, etc. Pure performance.
Politicians will not change their behavior until they fear for their jobs. As long as voters are loyal to political parties, platforms, etc things will not change. Politicians need to feel that there is no base they can rely upon.
Also consider that if you are loyal to a party or platform you are essentially irrelevant. One side can count on your vote and the other side can do nothing to get your vote. Both can ignore you (in their actions, they will probably say the right thing in speeches) with no real negative consequences.
Is this USA that we are talking about?
Is this USA where the RULE OF LAW takes precedence ?
Is this the one and only USA where Liberty is everything?
How come the Americans just sit there and do nothing when some nefarious 3-letter-agencies get to do whatever they want, whenever they want, where-ever they want?
If you guys in America are really concern of human rights, start to fight for your own human rights !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
But the liberal minority of the court has expressed a willingness to revisit that law, and the court itself is concerned enough with the implications of modern technology that it has actually ruled against GPS-tracking drug dealers for long periods of time.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
6 years in Potsdam? May God pity your soul.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Oh Pooh.
From http://www.jphs.org/people/2005/4/14/james-michael-curley-and-the-5-license-plate.html
âoeFather of the American License Plateâ is probably not how Henry Lee Higginson would choose to be remembered. âoeFounder of the Boston Symphony Orchestra,â perhaps, or âoeCivil War heroâ would be more to his liking. But in fact it was Major Higginson, the prominent banker and philanthropist, who first recommended that the state put a numbered plaque on each motor vehicle.
Higginson hated the automobile. As the twentieth century dawned in Boston he was in a state of high complaint about the rudeness of the unlicensed âoeautomobilistsâ whizzing past his front door at 190 Commonwealth Ave. (in both directions on both sides of the avenue). At his summer home in Manchester, Massachusetts He even arranged to set up an elaborate network of timing devices in order to prove that over half of that townâ(TM)s motor traffic was routinely exceeding the speed limit of 15 miles per hour. But how to determine the identity of the offending motorists?
It was to address this question that Major Higginson submitted a petition to the Massachusetts legislature in January of 1903 âoeRelative to licensing Automobiles and Those operating the Same.â Since Higginson was perhaps the most influential private citizen in the Commonwealth at the time, his petition was sure to get prompt attention.
The story goes on from there and gets tied up in the politics of Boston of the time (Famously Corrupt).
So the intent of ANPR is little different indeed from the motivations that first led to license plates.
'Massena Police Chief Timmy Currier said he returned it to the owner, but wouldn't say how he knew who the owner was, nor would he say who he gave it to
To whom does Mr. Currier report? (OK, I'll guess... the people of his district) Did any of those persons ask him who the owner was? If he refused to answer to those to whom he reports, there is a very large problem here.
Albert Einstein gave us some good quotes. Ever heard this one? "The world we have made, as a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far, creates problems we cannot solve at the same level of thinking at which we created them."
What got us into this mess will not get us out.
So the intent of ANPR is little different indeed from the motivations that first led to license plates.
What?
You just disproved your own claim. The guy wanted to catch people who had committed a crime, he didn't want to record all the people who were not committing crimes.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
"The only way to avoid being racist is to simply treat everyone by the same fair and equitable standard."
If everyone were willing to abide by that policy, all would be well and good. The problems occurs when they don't.
It's not that you're giving special favors to someone based on race. Or gender. Or religion. Or sexual orientation. It's that you're ensuring that anyone, regardless of those factors, has the same rights and access to the same opportunities as everyone else.
Even if some people would prefer -- or even demand -- otherwise.
If you believe that EVERYONE should be under the same fair and equitable standard, then there would be no gay rights issues, or abortion issues, or special breaks or exemptions under the tax code. Everyone would have access to basic medical care. And on. And on.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
The DEA is apparently installing cameras along some freeways.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it." --Brian Kernighan
sibilance
Which is fine, because the part you cut is about demonstrating you're a fool with what you say... which they didn't do. I'm fairly sure Twain wasn't trying to say that silence is the correct response to *every* scenario, nor that everyone who says anything is foolish.
Yeah, that is feeding the troll, but I feel for your predicament.
It doesn't matter how nice you are. He doesn't care. You misspelled a word, and he feels so special that he found it.
Dude this is the Internet. I'm one of the rare individuals that proof-reads his own posts, and even I misspell things here. It's OK. The world hasn't ended, nor will it.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
Three kindergarteners are eating lunch. Bill is a bully, and punches Jim in the face. Tom feels sorry for Jim, and shares his dessert. It tastes good, but Jim still has a black eye.
The next day it happens again, and Tom still feels sorry for Jim. He shares his dessert again. This also tastes good, but now Jim has a bloody nose and still has a black eye.
On the third day, Tom doesn't have a dessert to share with Jim. Bill hits Jim hard in the jaw, and leaves a bruise. Tom feels that Jim must have a dessert to make him feel better. He pushes Sally over, takes her dessert, and gives it to Jim. Jim is confused, and a little scared. He doesn't want to offend Tom. Tom has been nice to him, and he doesn't want to be pushed down. Sally's dessert smells very good. He says nothing, and eats the dessert.
Jim's eye, nose, and jaw still hurt.
Tell me: What should Tom have done? What about Sally? What about Jim? There are no right answers, but some are better than others.
(Make no mistake: there are wrong answers.)
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
In response to Twain, how will we ever transition away from being fools unless we practice speaking out, are willing to make mistakes and then learn from them? Pithy witticisms like this are all very well for a little amusement but I sometimes worry that people take them seriously.
It's okay if you didn't get it. We understand.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
not any better than the other cameras... i.e. it wont.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
http://www.amazon.com/OTC-3991-12-Hybrid-Electric-Safety/dp/B004GDSPLS
Even the lowest end of hot gloves are safe at 110/220.
There are 2 levels of power on the poles in most places. The high voltage at the top (primary) and the lower voltage (secondary) down lower. This is what feeds the houses. As long as you don't cause a short there isnt much danger if your careful. Just look at the rampant power theft that goes on in Mexico and India. They don't even have hot gloves and get away with it often.
Clipping some power leads on to a 110 line isn't that big of a deal as long as you know what you are doing.
I have to return some videotapes...
That's how I feel about many of my projects lately; even thinking about debugging them is depressing. Sadly, I've found that after I finish refactoring and rewriting it, I wonder what the problem was to being with; the code looks simple, clean, and could have been written in a 200-level programming class.
I am John Hurt.
begin*
Sunday mornings are worse than Monday mornings for me.
I am John Hurt.
Subjective? Hardly. Start with the presumption that other people will treat you, your wife, and your kids the same way you treat them and theirs. That gets you close.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
No, by _definition_ "conservative" means you want to maintain the status quo and believe that changes to it should be made slowly and gradually. If you want a good antonym, try "radical".
That's what the word means. You either use the word correctly, use a different word if you mean something different, or you're wrong. I don't subscribe to this "but but languages evolve!" nonsense, at least not when it's used to defend stupidity. We live in an age where kids are made to play soccer games without keeping score so "everyone's a winner!" The "languages evolve" excuse is like that. To say that wrongly using words is proof that languages evolve is a nice, sweet, sugary-coated way of saying that ignorance tends to establish itself and become institutionalized.
Languages evolve when new words are created to explain new concepts that did not previously exist. All the terms we have now like "bit, nibble, byte, megabyte, et al" or "laser", and terms like "fiber optic" that did not exist 100 years ago is bona fide evolution of language. This isn't the same as redefining useful words to suit the widespread ignorance of those who utter them. Something novel that didn't previously exist is evolution; confusing two things which both previously existed is neither creative nor evolutionary.
Anyway, a great deal of Newspeak has occurred in the last couple of decades in politics. "Liberal" used to mean what we now call a "classical liberal" -- the most similar word for it today would be "libertarian".* Now it is wrongly used to describe "Communist with a happy face" the same way ""Conservative" is often used to describe "Fascist who claims to want your prosperity".
Speaking of free markets, you probably realize they don't work in a situation that naturally tends to create a monopoly, or where companies in an industry realize it's in their best interests to collude and not to compete. There's not such a free market for electrical utilities, nor for cell phones. Elsewhere, you also won't ever have a free market until the average person is incredibly shrewd and wouldn't consider doing business without first learning all about who they're doing business with. Effectively that means we'd have to eliminate public schooling, at least as we know it today, because that system regards inquisitive, diligent minds as failure to achieve its goals.
* I am talking to those who understand what "libertarian" means, not to those who think a minor political party has a monopoly on the idea that consenting adults should be free to live their lives and reap the consequences. I am especially not talking to the mindless people who seem to have been traumatized by some kind of Soviet-style mind conditioning and have unreasonable emotional reactions to it -- it is never portrayed favorably in the media and that's the upper limit of their ability to think for themselves (though it sure is funny how average people only ever have this kind of irrational response to things which are pro-freedom, meanwhile they will happily sell their liberty to anyone who promises security or some kind of hand-out).
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
That is not a Twain quote...it is a Biblical quote...of which Twain knew many.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!