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RIM CEO On What Went Wrong

AZA43 writes "After releasing some very ugly financial numbers in late June, BlackBerry-maker RIM went on a media blitz to downplay the significance of its latest earnings and counter increasingly negative media attention. ... But a new Q&A with BlackBerry chief Thorsten Heins offers a unique take on what exactly went wrong at RIM — Heins blames the company's downfall [partly] on LTE in the U.S. — and he actually seems genuine in his answers." A peek into the mind of RIM's upper management.

299 comments

  1. LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Terry+Pearson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just thinking that Android had to put up with LTE and it did just fine. Maybe Blackberry's problem is user interface, tight control of apps, and now a crowded market with better products.

    1. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Just thinking that Android had to put up with LTE and it did just fine. Maybe Blackberry's problem is user interface, tight control of apps, and now a crowded market with better products.

      I don't know if this is right, but I suspect that the open source nature of Android forces a separation from the operating system and the actual telephony stack. The telephony stack was closed source, I think it may be open now in Ice-cream Sandwich, but the architecture would have had to make the higher level OS layers communicate through a well-defined interface, making it easier to switch telephony technology.

      I would be interested if anyone can confirm this suspicion (or show it to be incorrect!).

    2. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by noh8rz5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is BYOD - bring your own device. people would rather use their own gear than RIM. Actually, the real problem is that consumer electronics have been growing leaps and bounds, and business electronics have been stuck in the past. It used to be that businesses could afford the real stuff, while consumers got the cheeps. Now, my computer at home is faster and more pleasing to use than my POS at work. RIM fell into the "POS at work" category. People's eyes were opened by the iPhone, and they began to have a higher standard.

    3. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On both iOS and Android the telephony and normal OS are quite seperated. It has nothing to do with open or closed source, just that they treat it as yet another device like the touch screen or the camera. I am not sure how BBOS handles it, but to not do it that way would be stupid.

      Even ICS needs closed source drivers for GSM/CDMA radios and often wifi. Hardware companies as always are a huge PITA. The big news with ICS is that all Nexus devices save for Sprints Galaxy Nexus are supported via closed source but publicly available drivers for this kind of hardware. The Nexus S 4G(sprint) and the Verizon branded Galaxy Nexus were the two just recently added back into the AOSP fold.

    4. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It shows how clueless they actually are. LTE has nothing to do with it. The problem was after the iPhone the phone became a "computer in your pocket" and RIM still had "Email in your pocket" - which suddenly looks a lot less compelling.

      RIM can't just do "something like an iPhone" that isn't going to wash. They need something radically new, clearly communication needs to be at its core (what were they thinking with the Playbook v1 - no email?!) Probably they need something with a keyboard (though how do you make THAT exciting?) as so many of their customers want that. They need excellence in industrial design. Personally I think they need the "blinky light" that shows you have a message. They need a far better UI (using the current Blackberry UI is an exercise in irritation). Most of all, "covering the bases" isn't enough, they need a "killer app" - being "competitive" can't save them, they have no momentum.

      And they need integration with a mobile device (like an iPad or Ultrabook - Blackberry users are keen on those keyboards).

      Can they do it? Hmm... seems vanishingly unlikely.

    5. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by JohnnyBGod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you think he doesn't know that? This is politics. So you're the CEO of a company. Are you really going to come out to your shareholders and say "We're in the shit 'cause our competitors have done better? We'll one-up up them now! Promise!" Of course not! This raises nasty questions like "Well, why didn't you do better before it was a problem?" or "Oh yeah? And how are you going to do that?", questions which either aren't productive or can't be answered without showing your cards to your competition. No... instead, you make up some silly excuse that sounds plausible to anyone who isn't in the know.

    6. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by bondsbw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      RIM needs to give up on the OS.

      Due to the traditional enterprise focus of Microsoft, I personally think it would be in RIM and Microsoft's favor to join forces by releasing a few good WP8-powered Blackberrys.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    7. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by bitt3n · · Score: 1

      Just thinking that Android had to put up with LTE and it did just fine. Maybe Blackberry's problem is user interface, tight control of apps, and now a crowded market with better products.

      But blaming on LTE means their problem is well-defined and therefore manageable (stock price goes up), while blaming on lousy products, poor strategic vision, and increasing competition means their problems are multifarious and deep rooted (stock price goes down). Thus it is obvious what the problem must be.

      it's like an alcoholic who blames his latest bender on someone spiking his shirley temple.

    8. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      If you read the article instead of the summary, you'll see that he's actually well aware of that and it's not just him saying "derp we weren't ready for the arrival of LTE" (in spite of how the summary makes that appear to be the case).

    9. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      didn't steve ballmer basically come out and say this in the past week? basically hinted that apple has outdone them, but that is all about to change?! we shall see.

    10. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am not sure the blind leading the blind is the best method for RIM to survive. If WP7/8 actually sold a large number of devices it might be worth it. Instead they need to support ActiveSync on their own devices and offer their software/services on non-BB devices as well.

    11. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by glebovitz · · Score: 1

      Yes, and they should announce the end of life of their current platform so that sales drop to zero. Oh, and they should abandon their entirely new product line in favor of Windows Phone 8. It's probably time for Heins to right some serious memo about how RIM is on a burning platform.

    12. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just thinking that Android had to put up with LTE and it did just fine. Maybe Blackberry's problem is user interface, tight control of apps, and now a crowded market with better products.

      Tight control of apps? You're kidding, right? Blackberries had apps long before Apple even thought of making the iphone.

      Blackberries allow their owner to control what an app can do. After all, you bought the blackberry, YOU can decide what apps to install on YOUR smartphone. You don't need RIM's permission or approval to install an app. RIM doesn't have the ability to remove apps from YOUR smartphone (unlike Apple).

      YOU can decide what apps do with YOUR blackberry. Unlike Apple, which seems to feel that any app sold via app store can do whatever they want with the data on your iphone.

      If you want no restrictions on what apps can do with your blackberry, you can do that too (but it would be pretty dumb - you shouldn't trust app vendors that much). For example, the very popular WhatsApp messenger takes all the information from your contacts and sends it back to the vendor (you agreed to that in the terms & conditions). WhatsApp uses that for marketing to you and all your contacts.

      Apple is starting to realize some of their errors and (allegedly) will have some granular permissions on what apps can do with ios 6.

      RIM has always given away free documentation and free SDKs to build apps. RIM even gives away free device emulators to test your apps. RIM doesn't require an NDA the way Apple did.

      RIM places no restrictions on how you sell your apps (unlike Apple, which forces you to sell via their app store, and you have to pay Apple their tithe to sell via their app store). You can sell your apps via RIM's app world, or sell your apps by any other method that YOU choose.

      It's true that many businesses have restrictions on what can be done with their blackberries, but they bought the smartphone - it's not unreasonable to have some controls over what happens to confidential company data.

    13. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by glebovitz · · Score: 1

      Yes, and they should announce the end of life of their current platform so that sales drop to zero. Oh, and they should abandon their entirely new product line in favor of Windows Phone 8. It's probably time for Heins to right some serious memo about how RIM is on a burning platform.

      Yes I know, it should be write the memo. Gosh I miss post-posting editing.

    14. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Android (Google) had very little to do with the LTE. Samsung, HTC, Motorola did just find with LTE. And yes as the RIM CEO indicates in the interview they thought it was going to come out more slowly, they were focused on smaller markets and missed the boat.

    15. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Give up on the OS? RIM has the only real time kernel on the market. Everyone else is using a server kernel adjusted for the desktop and then readjusted for the phone. The OS is one of their few remaining strengths.

    16. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      They already gave up their old OS, which I have real trouble believing was real time.
      Their new OS is QNX, which is real time, but I still don't see how a real time kernel helps them.

      No desktop operating systems I know bother with them.

    17. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 3, Funny

      The difference is, if you don't believe Ballmer, he can throw a chair at you.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    18. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by ArhcAngel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      RIM's immediate problem is BlackBerry faithful holding out for BB 10 devices. Up until this last quarter RIM hadn't had a sizable reduction in sales. Their stock has taken a beating because they hadn't grown at the same pace as the smartphone market leading to sensationalist headlines decrying their impending doom because they were losing market share. While technically true it is like saying the baker on the corner is going bankrupt because 500 people moved into the neighborhood and the baker is still selling the 100 cakes a week he had for the last decade while 2 other bakers opened up shop and are selling 200 cakes a week each. The iPhone opened the smart phone market up to a new demographic. RIM was created to serve a completely different demographic and their culture has struggled to reach the new market. That market has started to erode their core market so they are indeed in dire straights if they don't do a course correction and they are well aware of that. They are doing what needs to be done just slower than the market would like. There are a lot of factors that will determine if RIM remains relevant but to count them out would be foolish at this point. Did you bet against Apple in the 90's? I bet you did...

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    19. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nice sentiments, but how do you reconcile the fact that the app experience on all blackberry devices is abject shit?
      That nobody develops them, and nobody uses them? I have first hand experience with a lot of pre and post iphone blackberry devices. - At the very best I could describe the app experience as confused and inconsistent. I could go on for pages about the nuances, but it's much easier and accurate enough to say "shit"

      Hint: People aren't going to chose shit simply because they're free to choose shit over something better.

    20. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was talking about QNX. Real time helps them because it makes the system much more responsive. Phones because of weak CPUs, network interference and limited memory often have noticeable lags. A real time kernel allows the phone to always be responsive to the end user while handling those tasks effectively.. It also allows for vastly more sophisticated power management which can result in much longer battery life.

      And you are right desktop OSes don't use them. All the desktop OSes since the days of OS9 have been designed for servers. Which means they focus on throughput not responsiveness, and then adjusted for the desktop to some extent.

    21. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Best answer and accurate. Amazing this isn't already at +5 Insightful. But given the audience of slashdot these days, its completely unsurprising it sits where its at.

    22. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by TXG1112 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was mostly happy with my BlackBerry Bold, but the real issue for me wasn't apps, it was the shitty web browser and small screen. The killer app for smart phones is the Web. If they managed to get that to work seamlessly, they would have kept their customer base and app developers. What did them in was that the Torch was a buggy piece of crap. The UI for email and contacts and all the other communication functions is already superior to the the iPhone.

      --
      I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
    23. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      Android slide phones like the Samsung Epic (original), Droid(s) and MyTouch 4g slide make a far better "email" platform than BB does.

      The BB sidways keyboard is to small to thumb type but too big to fit on a phone with a decent screen size.

    24. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      That actually makes sense.

      There are a lot of people who would probably download a blackberry app to manage work contacts/emial for their iphone/android.

    25. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by somersault · · Score: 2

      I am not sure how BBOS handles it, but to not do it that way would be stupid.

      Any time I've used Blackberry software on the desktop, server or phone I've thought it was stupid. I wouldn't put it past them.

      Blackberry may have made mobile email popular, but that is irrelevant now. The only thing that they still do best (as far as I can tell) is provide cheap roaming costs.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    26. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice sentiments, but how do you reconcile the fact that the app experience on all blackberry devices is abject shit?

      Quite a few blackberry apps are crap, but the same holds true with many iphone & android apps. Check the reviews and you'll see that is often the case. That is a developer issue.

      I wasn't commenting on the quality of blackberry apps, just the claim that RIM had "tight control of apps" and that was one of RIM's problems.

      That nobody develops them, and nobody uses them?

      Some do and some don't. For example, I remember a while back my bank told me that now they have an app, you can search for branches, hours of operation, bank machines, log in to check your balances, and isn't this wonderful. I told them no, this isn't wonderful. The reason they had to develop an app is because their website is a piece of shit. If their website wasn't a POS, I could use their website on my blackberry (their website was also unusable on iphone).

      I have first hand experience with a lot of pre and post iphone blackberry devices. - At the very best I could describe the app experience as confused and inconsistent. I could go on for pages about the nuances, but it's much easier and accurate enough to say "shit"

      What Apple did very well was establish a way to charge the end-user directly. Apple gets your contact & billing info via itunes, before the iphone is even active.

      I bought my smartphone from my cell phone carrier. I don't want the phone manufacturer to have the ability to put charges on my bill.

    27. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by hendridm · · Score: 1

      Now, my computer at home is faster and more pleasing to use than my POS at work.

      In every job I've worked, my work computer was always much slower than my machine at home (except when I worked for the government, they would always buy me the caviar shit since it wasn't their money anyway).

      There was one exception. I worked for a very progressive company that bought me an overpriced office chair of the gods because I was having back pain (way better than my chairs at home). I wish I could have taken that chair with me when I left. I'm sure they paid more for it than the PC on my desk. I felt like the villain from Inspector Gadget (minus the cat) sitting in that thing coding all day.

    28. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2

      After many years of BB use, I'm still stuck with a device (Bold 9700) that can't do html mail. Granted, it's almost two years old, but the fact that RIM doesn't port it's newest OS to slightly older devices is a pain. My next phone will be an iPhone or an SIII.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    29. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by hendridm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a good point. It seems to me RIM would have been a much better fit for Windows Pwn than Nokia is.

      Buy RIM, fire everyone, sell RIM-style keyboard phones with WP on it to existing customer base branded as Microsoft BlackBerry, which will be pleasing because it integrates nicely with all the other Windows bullshit they already have (says the salesman).

      With Nokia, Microsoft just made a shitty company shittier*. With RIM, the scam might actually be believable.

      *Note to Nokia fanboys: Nokia phones suck. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can heal.

    30. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by na1led · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It was a slue of features missing on BB phones that other venders provided with Android and iPhone. The Camera was leaps and bounds better on iPhone and Android, and that alone made many users jump the RIM wagon. When I look at BB phones today, it's like comparing them to the old HP Ipaq Pocket PC - to an iPad or Galaxy Tab.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    31. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by grumpyman · · Score: 1

      I had the BB Torch 1st Gen at work and the fact that I have iPhone, the BB Torch is on my desk since day 1.

    32. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by YoopDaDum · · Score: 2

      I think all mobile environment have a well defined radio interface layer (RIL) similar to what's in Android. There's something specific to Blackberry thought, it's that in 2G/3G they have their own protocol stack. It's still run on an external baseband modem chip made by others (Freescale from memory, but I may be wrong there), but the PS is BB own and not made by the modem chip vendor as is now more common. This used to be a common model when the modem was the key to a phone, as it was important to be in control and it was possible for the phone vendor to make a difference there. Now the model has changed, and the modem chip provide both the hardware and the associated protocol stack.

      So maybe on LTE BB wanted to have their own stack (and even maybe modem hardware?), and didn't prioritize it as they had so much else to do and believed LTE would arrive later. When LTE took off very quickly, they got caught without an internal LTE, and possibly with a company culture that made it difficult to turn to an external provider. This is just a guess, but at least it looks possible.

      The "in-house" modem development is not totally dead yet. In other big players you can find such in-house development: Moto do their own LTE hardware and stack (but for how long still?), Samsung does it too and LG did it partially in collaboration with GCT. Contrast this with Apple and HTC who just get the full modem subsystem from a third party (now Qualcomm in both cases). If you have the skills and volume it may make sense to do it yourself (Samsung), but when you have limited resources and volume this is more questionable and we'll see if this trend continue (Moto, LG).

    33. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by oakgrove · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that's what Palm thought too. People smell desperation and they would get a bad whiff from a Windows Phone adorned Blackberry from a mile a way. Really bad idea.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    34. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think the blackberry should have gone outside of corporate. You are completely right about the email in your pocket, but I would go further to say that BBM was a large part of their success. People bought the blackberry to get around paying for texting at least in Ontario. This isn't as big an issue as most plans are near unlimited texting now. The simple fact is they shouldn't have been as big as they got, the growth wasn't stable, and the market is just correcting itself. If they don't forget their core business market they will do fine.

    35. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Gosh I miss post-posting editing.

      When / why did they get rid of it?

      Why doesn't cmdrquesadilla post more whiney uninformative posts about the slashdot stats people quote being wrong, and post some real stats too?

    36. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      Has anybody tried loading the Verizon GN binaries on the Sprint phone and seeing if it worked? I treat my 4G Xoom as a wingray device when I install ROMs and have never had a problem with it working (obviously barring the 4G that I never used anyway).

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    37. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

      They probably need to set their sights on another niche market and win that. Something where they can charge a premium.

      It looks like mainstream consumer phones have reached a stable basic design, which means that there's hardly anything left in terms of major "disruptive" hardware innovation. It's basically a predictable race down to $49 Android phones and $99 iPhones that do everything well enough.

      The next big breakthrough in mainstream phones is going to be something like virtual reality displays, mind-control, phone as body implant, or antigravity that makes the phone float in the air in front of you. I don't think RIM can get something like that to market before they run out of cash.

      (Since this is the internet I should probably clarify by saying that the part about antigravity was a joke. Not sure about the implant.)

    38. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is not exactly what a Real time OS does. Given not enough CPU to handle all the tasks it abandons any that take too long. Users really don't like those sorts of things. Real Time operating systems are really only good for that environment, where late means worthless.

    39. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      I am not sure how BBOS handles it, but to not do it that way would be stupid.

      Actually no, if you can get away with it then it's better if you can skip on extra chips, since that bring the bill of materials down and nets you better battery life. that's pretty much how some manufacturers africa phones have weeks of standby and long talk times - the fewer arm cores you need the better it is.

      for a random manufacturer it's easier to buy the phone on a chip and just bolt that on, not smarter or more efficient - just easier.

      doesn't have much to do with rim though since afaik all their designs are the bolt-on-phone variety(so were all windows ce phones, androids, palms, hell, pretty much all manufacturers except nokia when it comes to smartphones - with others it's usually just dumb-phones that were built this way).

      for bb though their problem is probably that in the end they'd have to find guys from the hw company to find contractors to write drivers for them - even the bolt on stuff needs drivers -, basically favors and good relations, telecoms is kinda bitchy like that - or rather they should have gone into partnerships with the chip providers for writing that stuff by providing them 1000+ engineers, not because they'd need 1000 guys to write the drivers but to get the deal done.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    40. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      I still refuse to put my own Android device on my work network, mainly because doing so causes you to give up control of your own device. The Blackberry Balance stuff is pretty cool in that regard.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    41. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Uuh, the 9700 can do html mail. Have you upgraded to the latest version of the OS that's available for it?

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    42. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Which Bold? The ones with the Torch browser are pretty good, It's only very slightly slower than safari, and that's due to the data compression going on.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    43. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      QNX is real time. Their old OS was a clusterfuck, and is what caused many of their problems. Changing to QNX is the right move. It's actually a phenomenal OS, they just need to GET IT OUT ALREADY.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    44. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      To not do it would be a legacy decision based on a need to optimize battery performance... which is why I can see some logic to the disruption LTE played to them (in the very recent term-- last 18-24 months). BB10 might be more of a modular approach.

      A better statement of the problem is likely that the delay in BB10 squandered resources on adding features to the old OS, which further delayed a competitive entry into the market.

    45. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      That's not strictly true, it's just one implementation/part of a RTOS. What jbolden said is correct in regards to using a RTOS for a phone.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    46. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go read the interview you moron. There are more than one reason and the longer winded talk makes the LTE portion of the statement more easy to comprehend.

    47. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      That's because the old OS was painful to develop apps for. Even seasoned developers at RIM had to struggle with it. The new OS is much better in that regard, if they would just finalize the SDK. Having the option to choose native C++/GL, adobe air, java through the JVM or html5 is pretty nice, and should definitely make developing apps far easier.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    48. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Yup, they announced too early and are delivering too late. The 9900 is a nice phone, but I'd rather have the new one.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    49. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can assure you, without a shadow of a doubt, that the API for managing communications over the radios on BlackBerry devices is one of the stupidest things ever created. In particular, it requires the application developer to handle the idiosyncrasies of the hardware/physical layers while communicating over the transport layer.

      Need a TCP connection over cell network? Write this set of software. Need a TCP connection over WiFi? Oh, there's a completely different set of APIs for that. Neither Android nor iOS puts developers through those idiotic hoops.

      Net result: the software devs at RIM appear to be complete fools.

    50. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Shitty web browser, shitty GPS offline maps and shitty email support (deleted mails do not sync), very good bandwidth optimization and keyboard. Still, I have turned down a free android phone over my BB, cuz when I saw all the shit installed on the phone I realized that I need a clean install. And rooting the phone would take time I don't like to spend on the phone.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    51. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      Yes. It had issues with BES, and I had to downgrade.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    52. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      One way the iPhone fails is with its complete lack of user security. My wife is a BA for internal mobile applications at a big company, and they struggle with the iPhone's complete lack of back end security - something that RIM does very well.

      I've been waiting for RIM to release an Android smart phone where they have ported in their rugged encrypted back end, so customers can use it in user land like any other Android device, but launch a corporate app and it has all the security of a BlackBerry. But they never did anything of the sort, and if they aren't close to release now I don't think they'll survive long enough to do it.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    53. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by presidenteloco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's probably because IOS and Android+Linux were complete, general OS stacks designed for, you know, computers, whereas RIM s/w was designed to run on low-end electronics like pagers and early cellphones, so is much more limited and specialized, then added to in an adhoc fashion as the hardware got faster and more memory.

      What really happened here is that the cellphone got replaced by a portable computer that happens to be able to phone people. RIM and to be fair many others got caught napping when that happened.

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    54. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've said it elsewhere, but what I think is that they need to release an Android phone that has the same back-end security as a BlackBerry. Sure, let users download apps and play with them in user land, but launch a corporate app and its content is locked down and protected. This is what Trusted Computing is for. (I'm not saying I would buy one for myself, but were my company to issue a phone I had to carry, having it act like a standard fully-featured Android phone plus have corporate support would make it better than a regular Android phone for sure.)

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    55. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Haawkeye · · Score: 0

      This is the truth. I just wish I could BYOD at my workplace. They bought us dell netbooks! OMG I refuse to use a computer if I have to use that. I can't even see the screen. Fortunately I can get away with not using a computer at my job for a lot of things. Right now what I do is bring my own laptop and work on it but I don't connect to the network at all. That is better than using that piece of crap they bought teachers. (I am a grade 4 teacher btw). I am so upset about that netbook that I am seriously thinking about sending it back to the IT department and saying give it to someone else I don't want it. I wonder what they would say to that.

    56. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Posting anon

      Actually, RIM has traditionally designs EVERYTHING themselves. At one point they even designed the physical radio chip. The idea is that if you do everything in house, you can maximize the optimization of each layer (and it works, that's why BB have such long battery and, as least as far as the radio stack is concern, very low call drop rate compared to that Q company :) ).

      But of course, due to multiple reasons (which doesn't actually have to do with incompetency), they fell behind.

    57. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Then for a phone how will you handle the following situation?

      You are at 100% CPU and RAM usage. The user tries to do something that needs more CPU. Do you drop the old task, which is no good he needs that done, or the new task which cannot complete in time?

    58. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty much what he said in TFA. The move toward 4G changed us from wanting to move as little data as possible over the wireless network to consuming as much data as we are allowed. BlackBerrry stayed focused on the as little data as possible concept while everyone else moved to the as much data as possible concept.

    59. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You are at 100% CPU and RAM usage. The user tries to do something that needs more CPU. Do you drop the old task, which is no good he needs that done, or the new task which cannot complete in time?

      You schedule it this way.

      1) The user always has a high degree of responsiveness. The system never lets itself get to 100% CPU and RAM unless the user hasn't been hitting anything for while.
      2) The task the user is currently looking at gets priority and all the CPU and RAM it needs
      3) Other tasks split up the remaining generally using something like a most recently used bias. Their may be a notification when a large task in the background completes.

      RTOS don't magically create more CPU, they may even effectively decrease it, but that's not the point. What they do is make sure the system is always responsive to the user regardless of load. And absolutely things like postponing tasks are key.

    60. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by ekgringo · · Score: 1

      Our CFO bought a Blackberry Playbook when they first came out, partly because he is (or was) a stockholder. I took a look at the app store and basically saw about 10,000 temperature conversion apps (for only $1.99 each!) and not much else. Needless to say I was not impressed. It didn't help that you had to tether the damn thing in to an existing Blackberry handheld to access email, so they were only ever going to sell them to existing Blackberry customers. The user interface for enabling said tethering was convoluted, not user-friendly, and didn't work out of the box. It required a software update to work, and the software update process was confusing and didn't seem to work most of the time. It had a damn nice screen with good build quality, but the user interface and software was lacking in so many ways that he finally gave up on it and got an iPad.

    61. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's all about prioritizing tasks. It's also about soft-failing so the system never "Crashes".

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    62. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by TXG1112 · · Score: 2

      It was a 9700. I really liked many of the devices features, particularly the keyboard and battery life. WRT the browser, there were lots of sites that wouldn't display properly and the small screen made surfing for anything but the most basic of information an exercise in frustration. Speed was never an issue for me. I was considering getting a Torch, but a number of my coworkers had them and the reviews were uniformly bad.

      When my BB broke last year I ended up replacing it with an iPhone 4. There are many things about the iPhone that annoy the piss out of me. The UI is far less intuitive than the apple fan-base would have you believe and there is no unified contact management and messaging as there is on a BB.

      The browser on the iPhone works perfectly and I can even read the NY Times on it without too much trouble when the situation calls for it.

      --
      I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
    63. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by TXG1112 · · Score: 1

      Not really. I didn't (and basically still don't) care about streaming video and other high bandwidth activities, I just wanted the damn browser to display things properly. These were all issues that existed for BB in the 3G era and hitching it to the roll out of 4G is a bit of revisionist history.

      --
      I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
    64. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I had a BB Curve for about a month, and got rid of it. Why? The browser was absolute shit. Even Opera Mini sucked ass on that thing.

      As for keeping their app developers, I don't think they ever really had a lot of them.

    65. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Tight control of apps? You're kidding, right? Blackberries had apps long before Apple even thought of making the iphone.

      And they weren't used much mainly because it was a huge pain in the ass for developers to do anything interesting, and there was no good distribution system for either developers or consumers.

      I think the fact that apps were never huge on Blackberry shows that the things they did were not entirely correct.

    66. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      If their website wasn't a POS, I could use their website on my blackberry

      Probably not. The Blackberry browser was the worse piece of shit to ever come out of a tech maker's butt. It made some dumbphones browsers look good.

      What Apple did very well was establish a way to charge the end-user directly.

      And, you know, that whole central marketplace thing, where users could find apps, instead of having to hunt all over the internet and hand your information over to sites of questionable reliability. While the site takes a huge chunk out of the sale price from the developer.

    67. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      1. Then you lose performance.
      2. Too late user switched tasks again, now you have to load stuff from disk.
      3. Nothing left, user is a nimrod calculating pi on his phone.

      RTOS solve some problems very well, like making sure some tasks on done on time. They cannot prevent slow downs and such on a device where a user may start any task at any time. Well unless everything the device can do is loaded into ram at start. If you do that you will needs lots of ram.

    68. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I actually think that is the case.
      Blackberry had 2 things going for it.
      1. A really good keyboard. I never owned a Blackberry, however I was handed on a after I had an iPhone, and I found that keyboard was really nice to use... Better then other phones with a physical keyboard, or good touch screen keyboard....

      2. A secure method of sending emails and other messages.

      Now #2 became more of a liability then an asset, because these portable computers that happen to have phone features, supported standard secure ways to transfer data. And you could choose Wi-Fi or your Data Plan. Then what really hurt was the random Outages at RIM that left customers messageless.

      For #1 They still have a good keyboard... They started to push phones without it, and failed (Because not getting a keyboard is a step back). And the phones with it, caused you to have less screen real estate making it harder to make mobile sites that work for iPhone and Blackberry. While we loved the keyboard, we found that we read more then what we typed. Having a good keyboard that takes up half your phone, isn't an efficient use of the device.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    69. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by adavies42 · · Score: 1

      i wish iOS had bb's ability to handle very-low-bandwidth conditions. my bb can send and receive email seamlessly, and browse the web with mild difficulty, in a one-bar environment where my iPhone just spins, assuming it can get an IP address at all. (that's about the only thing i like about bb tho....)

      --
      Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
      -kfg
    70. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      If you do everything your selfs. you often get in the issue where you find behind other newer technology.
      You have a product that does what you want it to do. Vs. a product that does what you want it to do an more... So it urges you to add that little extra to do the little more.

      You see a lot of this mindset on Slashdot a lot of the time. Why would I ever need such a device my Old device works fine... After they get the device they find that those extra features actually become useful, and are unwilling to go back.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    71. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 1

      1-3 were meant as a group.

      As for your responses:

      Of course RTOS are lower performance. The goal of an RTOS is to trade performance for responsiveness. The system feels zippy even if i actual worked performed is lower. That's the tradeoff. Most people vastly prefer 90% of things to be instantaneous even if the hardest 10% take 30% longer.

      In terms of swapping an RTOS or a traditional scheduler are equally bad if one task is using close to 100% ram. There it doesn't matter. The gain is only when there are say 1/2 dozen tasks each one wanting 25%.

      In terms of nothing being left, that's fine. If the front task gets 100% that's fine for any desktop / phone OS.

    72. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

      I think he did a pretty good job of delivering an answer so crazy that it kind of distracts from the real problems while people try and figure out what the heck he was thinking.

      My interpretation is that he's saying that BlackBerry did not create a good smart phone with modern features because it would suck up too much bandwidth for 3G. So it was always their strategy to have crappy phones that didn't perform well when compared to iphones and androids, but would be better loved by the carriers, maybe? Or maybe their lack of badwidth use would make allow carriers to offer them with cheaper plans?

      And lets just ignore the fact that LTE is just now starting to roll out in the US, with many cities still uncovered, and the blackberry market share completly unrelated to LTE rollout.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    73. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      Shit. And me without mod points. You hit the nail right on the head. Thanks for the insight.

    74. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by hab136 · · Score: 1

      Good already does that, today.

    75. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by hughJ · · Score: 1

      Yep. Playing off half-assed, poorly engineered/supported features as some sort of strategic miscalculation by the company is utterly silly. May as well be saying that the only reason their products have been doing poorly is because they didn't anticipate their competitors making them look bad.

    76. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by bheading · · Score: 2

      Look, this obsession with real time kernels and OS cores is nonsense. Apple built their product line on a *BSD core, they polished and optimized the phone and created the market leader. The OS kernel is not the defining characteristic of the user experience. What matters is attention to detail, UI and software design.

      BTW real-time kernels do not excel at optimizing performance. Their design objective is to sacrifice overall performance by maximizing performance for certain specific tasks. If you can't build a decent, smooth and responsive UI on today's 1Ghz dual-core CPU cores with an off the shelf modern OS kernel (of any kind) you are, quite obviously, doing it wrong.

    77. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I own the iPhone 4s and use it every day. I own the new Macbook Pro retina with 4 CPUs and 8 execution threads each one fast. I get lag on both. So using your very example no their kernel isn't holding up.

    78. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I was just responding to what happens at each step.

      If The front task gets 100% cpu on my desktop I am going to be pissed. Sometimes people do browse the web while code compiles for instance.

    79. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Remember we are talking a phone here. But to be honest on my desktop I'd still want front task to be able to get 100% of CPU. The compile can wait until the Lady Gaga video, or whatever, is done rendering. Though even better for a desktop would be defaulting to that order and allowing me to set a background task as higher priority (something like Unix nice).

      Where I wouldn't want that behavior is on a server where I'd want to wait rather than mess up potentially hundreds or thousands of other end users. And that was my original point. Desktops and now phones are using server kernels.

    80. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by _DangerousDwarf · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you are referring to BlackBerry Balance
      http://ca.blackberry.com/business/software/blackberry-balance.html

    81. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Android and iPhone are poor subsitutions for Blackberry, and it is my opinion that the vast majority of people who disagree should never have had blackberries to begin with.

      Its not that theyre bad, its that they target a different range of priorities than Blackberry does, and in terms of messaging / phone, a good blackberry simply cant be beat IMO.

    82. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      Now, my computer at home is faster and more pleasing to use than my POS at work.

      In every job I've worked, my work computer was always much slower than my machine at home (except when I worked for the government, they would always buy me the caviar shit since it wasn't their money anyway).

      A lot of times it's slower performance wise, but not nessesarily spec wise. After IT has it's way and loads on all sorts of shit security software, it will bog down even a quad core.

      I remember quite a few years back I bought a surplus PIII from my company. Under the corporate load of WindowsXP these things were almost unusable. It took 5 minutes to boot, and using anything was a struggle. When I picked it up the IT guy was like "yeah, it might run okay with Windows98"

      I put a clean version of WindowsXP on it and the machine ran like a dream. Booted in 30 seconds, Office 2003 was snappy. Good for anything other than heavy duty games or flash heavy websites.

    83. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      The OS is one of their few remaining strengths.

      Well, right up to the part where you try to actually use the OS, that is.

    84. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Android and iPhone are poor subsitutions for Blackberry, and it is my opinion that the vast majority of people who disagree should never have had blackberries to begin with.

      Please tell us you are either a Program Manager, work in HR, or are a middle manager in IT, because what you just wrote said no productive employee ever.

    85. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 1

      In what way. I'm not talking bundled apps here. What do you see as wrong with their new OS in and of itself in terms of usability?

    86. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      because what you just wrote said no productive employee ever.

      Is this the part where you explain why tactile keyboards and shortcutted everything is inferior to swipe gestures and a native youtube experience? Or how ActiveSync is somehow superior to a BES?

      Good luck with that.

    87. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      The productive employees actually doing all the work and avoiding meetings and other non-productive tasks like scrolling through blackberry email are sitting at fully functioning computers, being productive. Computer keyboards, even the bad ones, trump the best tactile keyboards on any phone ever.

    88. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2. A secure method of sending emails and other messages.

      Now #2 became more of a liability then an asset, because these portable computers that happen to have phone features, supported standard secure ways to transfer data.

      There are standard ways for smartphones to transfer data (WAP & TCP), but they are definitely not secure. They are the same as browsing with unencrypted http.

    89. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly where BB10 is headed. It runs an Android emulator that's in its own sandbox. That way you can run Android apps (repackaged in the BB app store) without compromising security.

    90. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And you are right desktop OSes don't use them. All the desktop OSes since the days of OS9 have been designed for servers. Which means they focus on throughput not responsiveness, and then adjusted for the desktop to some extent.

      OS X has some realtime features in its scheduler. The highest priority bands get the CPU no matter what as soon as they're not blocked, but they're expected to block often enough that other processes don't get starved. If they do starve non-RT processes the scheduler can punish them to save the system from hanging (by demoting offenders to non-realtime priority).

      Also, the OS X kernel is definitely not focused on promoting throughput over responsiveness. Your attempt to set up a dichotomy between the two is false anyways. It can be (and often is) true that reducing latency increases throughput too.

    91. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by avatar139 · · Score: 1

      So it was always their strategy to have crappy phones that didn't perform well when compared to iphones and androids, but would be better loved by the carriers, maybe?

      Pretty much. Product design at RIM has really taken a back seat to creating and maintaining Carrier partnerships for quite a while now which pretty much killed their ability to compete as evidenced by the Carrier specific marketplaces.

      Several features of the Storm (most notably on board wi-fi) actually got squashed because Verizon objected and that was really the last straw for the few remaining good product engineering guys who were still around, so RIM ended up having to redo a lot of the work that went into it at the last minute and the end result was a buggy mess in a piece of really badly designed hardware which to me signaled the beginning of the end for RIM.

      --
      I'm honest enough to admit I lie to myself.
    92. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Good comment, you should get an account.

      It can be (and often is) true that reducing latency increases throughput too.

      I'm unclear why. Keep going how does reducing throughput to reduce latency result in more throughput?

      OS X has some realtime features in its scheduler. The highest priority bands get the CPU no matter what as soon as they're not blocked, but they're expected to block often enough that other processes don't get starved.

      Interesting. That's good to know. Then why can processes in the background make the system unresponsive?

    93. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After many years of BB use, I'm still stuck with a device (Bold 9700) that can't do html mail. Granted, it's almost two years old, but the fact that RIM doesn't port it's newest OS to slightly older devices is a pain.

      While the original blackberries (around 2000 or so) didn't support HTML email, blackberries have supported HTML email for many, many years now.

      The "Bold" series of blackberries have always supported HTML email. Maybe you turned off HTML email or maybe your IT people have turned it off for you.

      It's in Messages - Options - Email Settings - Enable HTML email.

    94. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Some people are consultants and dont have the luxury of sitting at a desk with outlook and a voip phone. For us, having an email experience that at times is BETTER than the desktop outlook experience is wonderful.

      But I suppose if your only metric for "being productive" involves you sitting at your own computer, sure, a mobile device would be inferior. But that doesnt really make iPhone or Android any better-- if anything, it makes them more inadequate.

    95. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      After many years of BB use, I'm still stuck with a device (Bold 9700) that can't do html mail. Granted, it's almost two years old, but the fact that RIM doesn't port it's newest OS to slightly older devices is a pain.

      While the original blackberries (around 2000 or so) didn't support HTML email, blackberries have supported HTML email for many, many years now.

      The "Bold" series of blackberries have always supported HTML email. Maybe you turned off HTML email or maybe your IT people have turned it off for you.

      It's in Messages - Options - Email Settings - Enable HTML email.

      Sadly, "Enable HTML email" doesn't exist as a menu option. It's not greyed-out; it isn't there.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    96. Re:LTE? How about Android and IPhone by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      I'll point my wife at them, thanks.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
  2. Apple happened by oconnorcjo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always thought that the palm pilot was a great idea, but if it had phone functionality, it would be perfect. Blackberry never saw this idea too well. When Apple finally figured it out, Blackberry was dead man walking.

    --
    I miss the Karma Whores.
    1. Re:Apple happened by alen · · Score: 3, Funny

      but come on, everyone knows that business people aren't allowed to enjoy themselves on flights. if the IT goons didn't lock down the phones so that you can't do anything on them the company will fall apart? imagine the horror of the director of something using his phone to download a non-IT approved app like Angry Birds to play while on a business trip? the client will freak and pull the business

      if you take the power away from the IT goons to lock everything down what will they do? how will they get their power trip on?

    2. Re:Apple happened by Swampash · · Score: 2, Interesting

      RIM had a complete internal panic when Apple unveiled the iPhone in 2007, a former employee revealed this weekend. The BlackBerry maker is now known to have held multiple all-hands meetings on January 10 that year, a day after the iPhone was on stage, and to have made outlandish claims about its features. Apple was effectively accused of lying as it was supposedly impossible that a device could have such a large touchscreen but still get a usable lifespan away from a power outlet.

      http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/12/27/rim.thought.apple.was.lying.on.iphone.in.2007/

    3. Re:Apple happened by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The IT goons as you call us were the ones quite often pushing for the death of RIM.

      My and my goon coworkers pushed to have RIM banned from our company. If you have our company buy you a device you can select an iPhone or Android of your desire. If you BYOD same rules apply if you want any support. We aren't total dicks, we just will not do better than best effort. If it a RIM device comes in and does not work out of the box or they have any trouble at all we just suggest they return it for something else.

      We have saved tons of time not having to deal with repushing servicebooks, pulling batteries, and restarting the whole BES server. Which is a PITA since it takes out email for all its clients.

    4. Re:Apple happened by kdogg73 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      --
      Let's face it, most of us are scoffers. But moments before zero hour, it does not pay to take chances.
    5. Re:Apple happened by Swampash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh yeah, that's one of the all-time great bits of self-ownage.

      Tech journalists make bad calls all the time, but few tech writers have made such a blisteringly bad call as seasoned columnist John C. Dvorak, who famously predicted back in 2007 that “Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone [because it is just] going to be another phone in a crowded market.”

      D’oh. $150 billion in revenue later, the iPhone is the biggest success Apple has ever had, and revolutionized pretty much every single aspect of the smartphone and even telecom business. That’s quite the missed prediction, even by tech journalist standards.

      So what does Dvorak have to say to explain himself? Was it just a brain fart, or what? Five years later, Dvorak has explained why he said the iPhone would be a dud, and his excuse is fascinating: he claims he got it wrong because of a conspiracy against tech journalists like him who were too honest about Apple for their own good.

      http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/wrong-dvorak-blames-getting-screwed-over-apple

    6. Re:Apple happened by Xest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because Compaq (then later on HP) never invented PDAs (this is what they were called before smartphone became the prominent term) with phone capability called the iPaq, nor was this name used even before the iPod. Palm pilots with phone functionality is basically exactly what newer model iPaqs were.

      Apple didn't "figure out" this concept, far from it, it was already well established in the marketplace. What Apple did succeed in doing however was to bring it to consumers - RIM, HP, and even Dell's devices were business oriented, and whilst some consumers liked business features enough to embrace these devices as a consumer oriented tool, they were never going to compete with devices that were targetted purely at consumers, rather than business.

      It's the same reason that the likes of Netbooks sold hundreds of millions of units and took the market by storm in just a year or two - because to that point, most laptops out there were focussed either towards businesses, or the expensive high end power user like gamers, and again, whilst plenty of people bought laptops, finding value in them as a personal tool regardless, the consumerisation of them as netbooks really made the whole market explode. Tablets are again no different - the iPad was nothing new, tablets had been done in a way similar to the iPad since at least 2002 with Windows XP Tablet Edition's introduction (of course there were precursors to even that, but this is the point at which they became viable in the way they are now), but they were never consumer oriented, and so never really took off.

    7. Re:Apple happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Mod'ed->AC.

      So Dvorak's excuse is that he didn't get to see the pre-release iPhone. So he based his TV appearances and articles on the rumors and his guesses. Is that how tech journalism works these days?

      No, don't answer, I knew it was a bad question as soon as I typed it.

    8. Re:Apple happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PalmOS DID have phone functionality. Started with the Kyocera 6031 in 2001. I had one of them.

      Blackberry's claim to fame was email push. They'd done it right against the backdrop of their "smartphones" (which weren't really all that capable compared to WinMo or Palm devices of the day...) and they've been basically resting on their laurels ever since that time. They've basically been a dead man walking from nearly their beginnings.

    9. Re:Apple happened by swb · · Score: 1

      Apple figured out how to make it usable. I joined a SMB consultancy in 2004 and was given an iPaq for mobile email. It is a testimony to my patience and respect for my employer's money that that device wasn't launched out the sunroof at 85 mph or shot with a .44 magnum.

      It NEVER worked right. Constant reboots. The physical keyboard attachment would work if attached at startup, but not otherwise, despite what the manual said. Touch required a stylus to accomplish anything and using the on-screen keyboard with a stylus was probably slower than entering a program with front panel switches on an Altair. Had a web browser which was almost completely worthless, even with plain-text web pages.

      Horribe, horrible device. I finally got a Treo650 which actually worked, but required GoodLink for usable email. That got replaced with a Motorola Q and the Q seemed as a amazing compared to the Treo and especially the iPaq as the iPhone 3G was to the Q.

    10. Re:Apple happened by alen · · Score: 1

      please, i hated the first iphone but anyone with an IQ in the double digits could see the world just changed right before your eyes.
      $600 gave you a toy with very little storage, basic email on the go and the best web browser at the time on a phone. the future possibilities were endless

    11. Re:Apple happened by Scutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but come on, everyone knows that business people aren't allowed to enjoy themselves on flights. if the IT goons didn't lock down the phones so that you can't do anything on them the company will fall apart? imagine the horror of the director of something using his phone to download a non-IT approved app like Angry Birds to play while on a business trip? the client will freak and pull the business

      if you take the power away from the IT goons to lock everything down what will they do? how will they get their power trip on?

      Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why the "IT goons" lock things down? Do you REALLY think it's a power trip? Are you that much of a child that you believe that to be the case? Or are you just trolling? Have you ever actually just asked to have Angry Birds added to the approved app list, or do you just complain about it like a petulant schoolgirl?

      Given that you have a low user ID, I'm going to assume you've been on Slashdot for a long time and therefore are at least somewhat technical. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you truly are not a moron and that you know that things get locked down for one reason and one reason only: To protect the company from idiot users. If left to their own, users will invariably create huge regulatory compliance issues (which can easily result in fines in the millions of dollars), introduce malware into the network, lose data, the list goes on. IT is responsible for the company data. If you want to take responsibility for that data, then you can decide how to protect it.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    12. Re:Apple happened by kdogg73 · · Score: 1

      Great link, Swampash. I revel in Dvorak's excuse. He has made a choice—a professional choice—to be a critic of Apple (probably trying troll Apple fanboy traffic to his columns) long time ago, and complains about it when he's wrong!? Because he's been blackballed by Apple, yet he thinks he's been doing them favors!? Man, it shouldn't surprise him by now that this is part of the industry's game, no matter the product. If the insiders get privileged info for their columns on the hottest products in the industry, then you are sucking the wrong dicks, man.

      --
      Let's face it, most of us are scoffers. But moments before zero hour, it does not pay to take chances.
    13. Re:Apple happened by grumpyman · · Score: 1

      I was a Palm fan back then. Curious on how exactly Palm died - cell technology was dumb phone nokia king back then... what happened?

    14. Re:Apple happened by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 4, Funny

      I would have thought just the opposite. Any doof can set up an active synch device, but it takes truly l33t skillz to keep a BES environment running. When the PHB's Blackberry goes down, Only You can fix it. BES makes you key personnel. Without it, you're just head count. :-)

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    15. Re:Apple happened by gstrickler · · Score: 1

      Thanks for posting that, I got some laughs out of it. Dvorak was wrong on almost every point.

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    16. Re:Apple happened by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 1

      As an "IT Goon" I'd be more than glad to see RIM gone. I would be more than willing to open everything up to competent employees. The problem is the lowest common denominator. Maybe, maybe, you just want Angry Birds. Maybe you get the free version, maybe you pay for the extra levels.

      I do what my bosses tell me to do. One employee decided to attempt to jailbreak his company phone using a company computer and left all sorts of keygens and whatnot on the computer and I am now ordered to make our network tighter than Fort Knox. I am not looking forward to the move to a "white list" system of web browsing. Public access account on a public computer, so we don't know who specifically did it. Not to mention other issues. Seriously people, who the hell pirates "Armageddon"? Why does anyone feel the need to pirate Angry Birds full version of all things too. It is what, $2.99 at most? If I get one more complaint about how IE is "broken" because the user has half the screen blocked by tool bars... I thought stories like that last sentence were jokes back in school.

      The less IT issues I have to resolve the more time I can spend doing other things. Good days, studying up and improving my skills. Bad days, Minecraft.

      --
      by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
    17. Re:Apple happened by rasmusbr · · Score: 1

      Yep, and that's basically Apple's MO ever since Jobs took over. Go down to the store, buy some stuff, figure out why it sucks and then design one or two devices that just work (and look good doing it).

      The only slight variation on the pattern is the iPad which they released years after the tablet marked had died on arrival.

    18. Re:Apple happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have saved tons of time not having to deal with repushing servicebooks, pulling batteries, and restarting the whole BES server. Which is a PITA since it takes out email for all its clients.

      You can selectively restart parts of the BES, and you can selectively restart mail agents so that not all users are affected.

      When BES 5 came out a few years back, it included a free license for a hot-standby BES, so that rebooting the BES does not cause an interruption in mail flow. BES 5 supports database mirroring, so that rebooting the BES database does not cause an interruption in mail flow.

      It sounds like you and your IT goon coworkers don't know how to manage the BES platform very well. You could read the extensive documentation, or take a BES management course. RIM offers course discounts with a service contract.

      There are decent free tools from RIM to monitor your BES, along with very good management/monitoring tools from Boxtone & Zenprise if you would rather not learn how to manage a BES.

    19. Re:Apple happened by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      Blanket locking down though is no longer an option, even in heavy regulatory environments. RIM needs to provide that level of security for corporate applications while still allowing user space on the device for personal use, if they expect anyone to actually want to carry one of their devices. On the back end, IT organizations need to be implementing the content monitoring processes necessary to enable and document compliant uses while blocking noncompliant actions. Yes, that means allowing users to access LinkedIn from their work-issued phone, and even post some things, but have their use of the "Like" button restricted and having all of their posts archived and, if necessary, moderated. It's less easy than a blanket lock down but it's what needed now to stay competitive, both for retaining customers and your employees.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    20. Re:Apple happened by swb · · Score: 1

      I'm not always sure I see the iPad in the category of "Tablet computer" the way its traditionally understood.

      To me the iPad is just a natural extension of the iPhone to a larger form factor, where a tablet computer seems to imply more of a computing experience as we understand it but in a way that is touch oriented in a tablet user interface.

      I think Apple just realized that the iPhone would be really cool on a larger screen, which is pretty much what it is. In fact, I keep waiting for a cellular-data iPad to actually have telephony components on it. I think there's a market for a device like that, especially for one-man businesses that would have it on their desk. I imagine an iPad sized phone app could be really interesting, especially a VOIP one.

    21. Re:Apple happened by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      You're just headcount when the PHB realizes his Blackberry isn't an iOS or Android smartphone like his golfing buddies have. Never let the PHB get embarrassed by old tech in front of his frenemies!

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    22. Re:Apple happened by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      things get locked down for one reason and one reason only: To protect the company from idiot users

      Exactly. It's the same reason no sane IT staff lets users log in as administrators.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    23. Re:Apple happened by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Good days, studying up and improving my skills. Bad days, Minecraft.

      Are you sure you don't have that backwards?

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    24. Re:Apple happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you should mention this. Prior to the palm, IBM partnered with BellSouth to create the "Simon". It had a palm-like OS coupled with a phone, PCMCIA card slot, and fax. Touch screen interface, handwritten notes, predictive text... The phone was scrapped but the palm interface lived on in the Palm Pilot. This was all in 1992 (original design). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Simon

    25. Re:Apple happened by h4rr4r · · Score: 0

      You can selectively restart parts, which does not always work. It can even break the rest of it.

      BES 5 did include such a free license, it did not give me a free server to run it on though.

      It sounds like you are a RIM employee who will soon be unemployed.

    26. Re:Apple happened by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door. Also, the Ipad was invented first, and then shrunk down to be a phone.

      --
      Good-bye
    27. Re:Apple happened by el+jocko+del+oeste · · Score: 1

      So Dvorak's excuse is that he didn't get to see the pre-release iPhone. So he based his TV appearances and articles on the rumors and his guesses. Is that how tech journalism works these days?

      No, don't answer, I knew it was a bad question as soon as I typed it.

      If Dvorak had simply said that he wrote his column based on the very thin public knowledge that was available to him, I would have been fine with it. The problem is that he turns it into a rant about how Apple treats journalists. He's got some serious baggage when it comes to Apple and he drags it out for everyone to see.

    28. Re:Apple happened by Sandor+at+the+Zoo · · Score: 1

      Palm pilots with phone functionality is basically exactly what newer model iPaqs were.

      That's what the Palm Treos were too, and Apple ran them down as well.

      It's the same reason that the likes of Netbooks sold hundreds of millions of units

      Citation, please?

      It's not that previous devices, whether smartphones or tablets, were business-oriented, it's that they sucked compared to what Apple came out with.

      I worked for Palm in the early 2000s, and yeah, the Treo 650 (and later models, although the 650 was the most rock-solid IMO) was a very nicely integrated PDA and phone. But the iPhone left everything that came before it in the dust, especially when it came to browsing the web. I agree with the previous poster(s) who said that the web was the killer app for phones.

      As for tablets, the pre-iPad Windows tablets were a joke. Very few apps were written for the tablet OS and UI, and overall the interface sucked ass. Try right-clicking with a stylus. You could do it, but it was like your fingers were playing Twister.

      Saying that the iPad was nothing new is asinine. The iPhone and iPad clearly redefined their categories, and the proof is in the products that their competitors are making, all of which are very evidently modeled on the iOS devices.

    29. Re:Apple happened by Grieviant · · Score: 1

      The iphone revolutionized the telecommunications business? I think the author of that quote might even be more full of shit than the guy he's making fun of.

    30. Re:Apple happened by knarf · · Score: 1

      I always thought that the palm pilot was a great idea, but if it had phone functionality, it would be perfect. Blackberry never saw this idea too well. When Apple finally figured it out, Blackberry was dead man walking.

      Apple? They arrived on the scene in 2007, fashionably late to the PDA-phone-combination party. Why not try that with Ericsson (1999) or even Microsoft (2002). Just because Apple did a good spit-and-shine job on the concept of the touchscreen smartphone does not mean they invented it.

      --
      --frank[at]unternet.org
    31. Re:Apple happened by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      (off topic)....but why do people think that having a low or high user ID has any correlation to how technical somebody is? As if there aren't hundreds of other technical sites that technical people like to go to instead of this bickering cesspool of trolls and fanbois?

    32. Re:Apple happened by stewbacca · · Score: 2

      Excellent observation. This is why the tablet market "died on arrival" and the iPad is a huge success. The "tablet" PC was trying to be a PC in a flat form factor. The iPad is trying to be NOT a PC. Thus, people who get mad at Apple for just copying the failed tablet PC concept are completely missing the point, and most likely will continue to do so as Apple continues to dominate. These same people think iPads suck because they don't do things that PCs do. Yes. This is exactly the point.

  3. LTE? by headhot · · Score: 5, Informative

    Its not being ready for LTE that kill them, it was the lack of modernizing the user interface and modern phones that killed them.

    1. Re:LTE? by blahbooboo · · Score: 1

      Its not being ready for LTE that kill them, it was the lack of modernizing the user interface and modern phones that killed them.

      Exactly! RIM was dieing way before LTE was anything more than a pipe dream... heck even now LTE isn't that big of a deal for most buyers...

    2. Re:LTE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His saying big bandwidth hurt them, as they focused on compression and push based email on low bandwidth. The teleco's want their pipes to be in use fully, hence they like android, ios and media heavy platforms.

    3. Re:LTE? by Pieroxy · · Score: 2

      This just goes to demonstrate that RIM's upper management is about a few lightyears away from the cause of their downfall.

      If this information is genuine, I don't expect RIM to be around anymore in 5 years.

    4. Re:LTE? by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Haven't you learned not to trust slashdot summaries? Of course there's selective out-of-context quoting - but ultimately he acknowledged several major problems that led to the current situation. LTE was listed as one of them, but indirectly. If you're actually interested, the article is a good read; and shows that they're not *quite* so out of touch as the /. summary leads you to believe.

    5. Re:LTE? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Big bandwidth does not hurt you if you are not using it. It is just there to be used if you need it.

      Telcos sell what people want, BB is not what people want.

    6. Re:LTE? by Scutter · · Score: 1

      FTFA:

      No iPhone? You're only using an Android device?

      I did iPhone already. I really go across the board, so I had an iPhone before because it was important for me to understand touch devices at the entry level. I had the Samsung Mini for a while. I change them on a pretty regular basis.

      For us, the devices were never the problem. For the most part, they were fine and they worked as they were supposed to. The problem was the numerous outages that lasted a day or longer, with no explanation. It was the cumbersome and monolithic software you needed to buy and maintain to connect to your mail servers. It was the ridiculously-expensive support contracts you needed if you had a problem. It was the lack of detailed documentation for the technical side of things. The fact that this guy is swapping his phones out to "understand touch devices" makes him sound like he has no idea what he's doing.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    7. Re:LTE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this information is genuine, I don't expect RIM to be around anymore in 5 years.

      I predict that someone will purchase RIM for a pittance within 1 year.

    8. Re:LTE? by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Numerous outages? There was one that lasted 1-2 days, yeah, and that was pretty much it? The rest of them were probably at the ISP level.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    9. Re:LTE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Telcos prefer to sell things that will rack up hefty bandwidth charges...

    10. Re:LTE? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No, they prefer to sell things that have add on costs. Like BES support on a commercial cell phone contract always costs extra. Free money is better than even overage charges.

    11. Re:LTE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does when people want big bandwidth. When you design your device around minimizing bandwidth you are going to stay away from features like a good web browser because they use lots of bandwidth (relatively anyway).

    12. Re:LTE? by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Ok, to be really fair I've read the article. I really think RIM won't be around in 5 years, or bought out long before that.

  4. It's not a phone any more by david.emery · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a pocket computer. -THAT's- the big shift that RIMM missed, and -is still missing-.

    Nice summary of what the iPhone changed here: http://daringfireball.net/2012/07/iphone_disruption_five_years_in

    1. Re:It's not a phone any more by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      It's a pocket computer.

      I agree... and don't. It's certainly not a traditional Windows machine crammed into a pocket computer. It's something for people to surf the web, check their email, do their social network thing, look at the weather, listen to music/watch videos - all the things they use a "computer" for besides work (unless you count email). But there is almost zero time spent on configuration, debugging, etc. People do change background pictures and ringtones and things like that, but they certainly don't interact with the OS in a way they are conscious of. It's always a bit jarring when you have to deal with an actual file location in Android - for the most part the whole file system has been abstracted away. In iOS, it is completely abstracted away.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:It's not a phone any more by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I agree for many people it is that way, and mostly it is a good thing. For me less so, but that is because I use SSH on my phone, I use it to write perl and in general spend a fair bit of time at the console. I also run ROMS, build apps etc. The fact that I can do that and my girlfriend does not even have a file browser installed on hers is great.

    3. Re:It's not a phone any more by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yes, I should have started with a disclaimer that I wasn't talking about the Slashdot crowd :)

      The first thing I do whether my phone is an iPhone or (currently) an Android is root/jailbreak it and install ssh... it's my preferred way of updating my ports on my FreeBSD machine since it stops so frequently.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:It's not a phone any more by gottabeme · · Score: 1

      You write Perl on your iPhone? With that keyboard?

      --
      "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
  5. Pre-mortem Analysis by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "we missed on some innovation..."
    "we weren't ready for it..."
    "not being focused on the new, innovative technologies..."

    and finally: "I would not say that we failed to innovate."

    1. Re:Pre-mortem Analysis by rbrausse · · Score: 2

      and another one:

      The delay of BlackBerry 10 is not because we added stuff to it. The delay is because our software groups were actually so successful in coding the [..components and building blocks..] that when we put them into the main "trunk line," [..] we got overwhelmed by integration efforts.

      so adding stuff is bad, but adding components is good?

      mmmkay...

    2. Re:Pre-mortem Analysis by amoeba1911 · · Score: 1

      That pretty much sums it up. The guy is completely oblivious or in denial. He failed, and if he can't even admit they failed to innovate, then the company isn't out of the woods yet.

      Blackberry made an awesome successful product, and thought they could simply coast from its popularity for the next 25 years... they had no idea other companies would come up with better stuff in the blink of an eye. In computer world, 10 years is an eternity. Seeing your shortcomings and fixing them is the key to success. Blackberry didn't see their shortcomings, and from the looks of it, sounds like they still don't.

    3. Re:Pre-mortem Analysis by Dynamoo · · Score: 2
      I think they lucked into awesome success though - BlackBerry always was a corporate solution, it just turned out that consumers were looking for the same sort of thing they were already making and they managed to jump on that market.

      As for innovation, well look at the whole QNX acquisition mess. RIM bought QNX in 2010, but it's going to take until 2013 (at least!) to come up with a QNX-based OS (BlackBerry 10) for their smartphones. The only place they are using QNX is the dead-end PlayBook OS. By 2013 it really won't matter if they can make QNX work on their smartphones or not as they will have passed into irrelevance.

      IMO, iOS has a future. Android has a future. Windows might be a niche player. Bada is bound to get some percentage points simply because it is being backed by Samsung. Everything else is irrelevant.. that's not to say that there aren't good OSes out there (MeeGo, Tizen and yes, QNX) but that they are simply more than customers need.

      --
      Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
    4. Re:Pre-mortem Analysis by grumpyman · · Score: 1

      One can argue without end on what's "innovation". Summarizing: "we fail to build what customers like".

    5. Re:Pre-mortem Analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can everyone collectively please cease to use the word "innovate" and derivations thereof? This word has become by far the most annoying buzzword in tech, much worse than e.g. "the cloud".

  6. Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by dingen · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just read RIM has sold one of their corporate jets in order to stay afloat. That's pretty desperate.

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    1. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At least they managed to trim a bit of fat from the top, instead of keeping the jet and firing 150 minions as part of a 'strategic realignment'...

    2. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I just read RIM has sold one of their corporate jets [theglobeandmail.com] in order to stay afloat. That's pretty desperate.

      Yes.

      Clearly, RIM should have kept all the corporate jets and ask for a government bailout, the same way GM & Chrysler did.

      RIM would get bonus points if they actually flew on their corporate jets to go and ask for a government bailout, the same way GM & Chrysler did.

    3. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by ctrl-alt-canc · · Score: 4, Funny

      In a related news, to keep the company afloat, corporate jets were replaced with hot air balloons.

    4. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by BVis · · Score: 0

      Back under your bridge, troll.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    5. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      So its RNIM (research not in motion)

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    6. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about RIFM : Research In Freefall Motion ? Still, I think they should rename to Research In Progress (RIP), it sounds much more aligned to their current position.

    7. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by dingen · · Score: 1

      Apart from the 5000 minions they will lay off this year on top of the 2000 they've sent home last year.

      But you're right, it is good they're selling a corporate jet. It is however still a move motivated from sheer desperation. I mean, selling an airplane isn't exactly a sign of confidence in the success of their coming products.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    8. Re:Instead of phones, RIM is now selling jets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But RIM is a Canadian company?

  7. Lack of RIM happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    RIM = Research In Motion

    They simply sat down and rested on their laurels and forgot what their company name originally meant. No research -> No development -> No innovation .... open the barn door for a new player .... Apple.

  8. Lolwut? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    So, if I understand the situation in bizzaro world correctly, it goes something like this:

    Noble RIM, blindsided(because maintaining strong, mutually beneficial carrier partnerships isn't at all part of RIM's job given that they sell both in-house hardware and proprietary data backend services to carriers...) by the US' sudden uptick in LTE enthusiasm(the same one that was proceeded by a blizzard of advertising so relentless that even drooling morons 'knew' that they 'wanted 4G', even if they didn't know what that meant, and which was necessarily accompanied by a flurry of buildouts and upgraded hardware that the professional channel-watchers and trade rags would never have noticed) caused RIM to be horribly blindsided by the iPhone(which, incidentally, has been quite conservative about bumping connection technologies, with HSDPA only introduced on the 3GS and HSUPA exclusive to the 4S) and various Android devices, many of which were brutally smacked down by reviewers and customers for having early-adopted cell modems that their batteries and/or browsers couldn't cope with in order to sell 'zOMG 4G+++!@!!!" to the cluelesss.

    This development, catching RIM entirely by surprise, and having no apparent effect on the relatively low-speed requirements of RIM's email/messaging/truly awful browser experience, thereby gutted RIM's position.

    Also, the sky is purple, with green dots.

    1. Re:Lolwut? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      No what happened in his world what that key Blackberry strengths like message compression stopped being important because network speeds increased drastically. Additionally functionality that wouldn't have been possible with lower network speeds like video and extensive browsing became possible.

    2. Re:Lolwut? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      My point twofold:

      1. RIM's problems started well before network speeds really picked up(the 'iPhone' for example was GPRS/EDGE, which is pretty miserable even under good conditions, and many of the zOMG 4G++++!!! handsets of late have actually suffered on customer satisfaction because of shit battery life and high peak speeds that are rendered essentially irrelevant by caps or coverage problems)

      2. RIM doesn't just make handsets, they run a data transfer infrastructure service and work to provide service with their telco partners. If they don't have access to information on which way the wind is blowing, infrastructure wise, they aren't doing their job...

    3. Re:Lolwut? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      On your points.

      (2) Could't agree with you more. And its not like this is subtle. The costs were in their public earnings reports sent to the SEC. To introduce LTE Verizon and AT&T had to send lots of people out on trucks....

      (1) Here I disagree. When the iPhone came out, it was a niche device and RIM was dominant. There had been other very expensive niche devices like the Palm-Phone. RIM was still gaining market share, much less subscribers, in the US (which was one of the first markets to have problems) all the way till January 2010.

    4. Re:Lolwut? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      The iPhone may have been niche, but that was one helluva short niche period.

    5. Re:Lolwut? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      One year. June 2007-June 2008. In June 2008 AT&T rolled out 3G along with the iPhone and that model exploded. But that was precisely RIM's CEO's point it wasn't the iPhone it was the iPhone & 3G combination. Had 3G not rolled out till 2010 there would have been 2 1/2 years where the iPhone was a niche device.

  9. What went wrong..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..... is the fact that they did not change what was needed to ensure business continuity.

    When I was working there in April and May of last year I warned them for what would happen in case of an outage.
    How the outage would last longer cause of the situation they had at that point and how to improve it.

    Besides ensuring business continuity they would have also saved close to a million on personal inside their Dutch, belgium and french DC.

    They said... yes you are right and no, we are not going to change it!

    I left cause I did not want to be responsible and they had an outage.
    Look at their stock and see when it plummeted to the ground and besides that I will give you all your personal space to decide.

    1. Re:What went wrong..... by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, somehow I doubt that.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
  10. LTE – iPhone's downfall too? by Henriok · · Score: 1

    Yeah! It's LTE's fault. Really, that's why iPhones are selling so badly oh wait! No, they are not selling badly at all!

    --

    - Henrik

    - when the Shadows descend -
  11. RIM Ignored the World by SkydiverFL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The company was over confident, overly comfortable in the business space, and simply ignored the customer base... both current and potential. While touch screens were popping up all over the place they were still pushing their tiny physical keyboard. While the competition was bumping up processor speeds to up performance RIM simply slapped on a crude semi-touchscreen which was too big and cumbersome for the core of the device. And, they offered virtually NOTHING to the developer market to foster application creation or distribution. And, finally, they simply ignored their own infrastructure multiple times. In short, they were so confident that their position in the business space was so guaranteed that they turned a blind to everything important.

    1. Re:RIM Ignored the World by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Yep, BlackBerry used to be the "cool" phone to get back when everyone else who owned a smartphone was stuck with the old Windows Mobile. A lot of people back then had BlackBerries who weren't really corporate users, they just wanted the best smartphone, which in the early start of the smartphone was the BlackBerry. Then the iPhone came out, then the flood of Android phones. For business users Android phones and the iPhone have become more and more business centered over time. When it comes down to it, why would anyone who isn't tied into BBES even consider a BlackBerry today? With the problems with BBES, why would any corporation choose that over its competitors?

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:RIM Ignored the World by BVis · · Score: 0

      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    3. Re:RIM Ignored the World by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      It's not theft when you get something for it. It is theft when it's used for bailouts and the bailouts are used for bonuses, and what's more, it's stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:RIM Ignored the World by BVis · · Score: 1

      Calling all taxation "theft" is inaccurate hyperbole. I get plenty back from paying my taxes. I certainly get a lot more value for my money than if I tried to buy the services on my own. Sure, some of it gets spent on things I don't want, but sometimes you have to take the bad with the good.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    5. Re:RIM Ignored the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taking something from you against your will and using it on items that may provide benefits to you doesn't negate the theft.

      Otherwise, are you alright if I steal your truck this morning? I intend to use it to pick up a lawn mower, which, after I've used it to cut my lawn, I'll return to you, so you'll have the lawnmower. I'll also pick up some hookers and blow, but those I'll keep for myself. :-)

      Oh, you wanted the truck back? Well, you can have it on Tuesdays. It's community property now.

      As for better value, you might feel that's true. I strongly disagree. The proof lies somewhere in the middle and is entirely opinion based.

    6. Re:RIM Ignored the World by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Unless you want to murder people you've never met to keep the price of goods down, the MAJORITY of your tax money is spent on things you don't want. (You have to include military pensions in the total military expenditure to really have a reason to crap yourself.) I object in the strongest possible terms to my money being taken from me and used to murder.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. No mention of ActiveSync? by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Either this CEO has no idea what he is talking about or does not want to address the elephant in the room. iPhone and Android support of ActiveSync is what did so much damage to RIM. Had BB supported that many people would have stuck with them just to avoid carrying around two devices, one for work one for play.

    It also freed IT departments from dealing with restarting the phone, repushing servicebooks restarting the BES server and all the other hassle that went with BES. I know companies that moved to iPhone/Android and either fired or repurposed an full time employee that had been previously dedicated to BES.

    1. Re:No mention of ActiveSync? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

    2. Re:No mention of ActiveSync? by grumpyman · · Score: 1

      There's validity in the ActiveSync thing but it's not the only cause. Isn't it ironic that MS fail even worse in the smartphone race. OTOH, I found that the current playbook has some sort of "work silo" storage so that it can be wiped in case of 'accident'. It's sort of saying yeah you can use it for personal too. Kinda too late...

    3. Re:No mention of ActiveSync? by bdo19 · · Score: 1

      It also freed IT departments from dealing with restarting the phone, repushing servicebooks restarting the BES server and all the other hassle that went with BES. I know companies that moved to iPhone/Android and either fired or repurposed an full time employee that had been previously dedicated to BES.

      This, times 1,000. I'm amazed more people aren't talking about this.

      All the cool BES security and management stuff is amazing, in theory. But in reality, BES is cumbersome, overly complicated, and downright unreliable, with crappy support. As just one particularly infuriating example: I used to run a BES server for about 100 users, and I couldn't migrate any Exchange mailboxes between mailbox databases because BES would corrupt the users' blackberry contacts. I had a ticket open with RIM support for well over a year, and now I've moved to new job, but AFAIK they never fixed that bug. When I complained through their sales channel at contract renewal time, their sales person said it was a feature request, and they couldn't be bothered. What IT department wants to support that? We like happy users, not angry users with broken phones and no help from the vendor. Forget not keeping up with new market trends -- RIM has driven away those who used to be its core supporters in what is supposedly its core market. And we're not coming back.

  13. downfall by Muramas95 · · Score: 0

    What do you think would happen when you don't release a new phone in over a year.

  14. RIM Ignored the consumer by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    RIM ignored the generic consumer in favor of selling their products in the business space. At first it worked because no other phone could do well in the business space and back when the only choices were Windows Mobile (the old, slow, unstable Windows Mobile) or BlackBerry many chose BlackBerry even if it wasn't the ideal smartphone, it was better than the competition. Then Apple released the iPhone which was consumer focused, no longer could RIM keep the consumers who just wanted a smartphone because there was a better option. Soon Android started appearing everywhere and iPhones got a whole lot more business friendly. All the while RIM was selling outdated hardware, an outdated UI, next to no developer support, and any time they tried to innovate it was a half-hearted attempt that failed (remember the storm?).

    In a nutshell, why is RIM broke? Because no one wants to buy a BlackBerry because an iPhone/Android does the job a whole lot better.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows Mobile (the old, slow, unstable Windows Mobile)

      As opposed to the new, improved, slow, unstable Windows Mobile?

    2. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Windows Phone 7 (the successor to Windows Mobile) is a whole lot better than Windows Mobile, its not perfect, but it does a few things a bit better than Android and iOS and is about the only real upgrade of an OS that's better in every respect that I've ever seen aside from the upgrades of OS 9 to OS X and WIndows 9x to Windows NT.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Well lets look at what you said honestly.
      "RIM ignored the generic consumer in favor of selling their products in the business space. "
      Who else was buying smartphones? They where expensive and business had the money and the need for them.
      "Then Apple released the iPhone which was consumer focused,"
      Because Apple couldn't compete with RIM in the Business space. It lacked security and features. The first rev of the iPhone even lacked apps which the Blackberry had.
      Apple built a very powerful hardware platform. Their bit of brilliance was that they noticed that you could build a device that you could put in your pocket and run on batteries that was actually more powerful than a VAX 11/780! They figured out you could run a UNIX on a phone aka they put on modified version of OS/X on a phone. Blackberry and frankly everyone else was stuck thinking that phones must use simple OSs and apps. Combine that with Apple getting the UI right which is something Apple is good at and you have the iPhone.
      Blackberry wasn't stupid. It was making money hand over fist. They saw a phone as a communication device and expanded it to handle email and messaging really well. It would run all day on a battery and worked well over slow connections. What Apple did was think of the smart phone as a computer that you could make calls on. It's battery life was good enough but not as good as the Blackberry and it and other smart phones like it drove the adoption of faster cellular technology.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    4. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Pope · · Score: 1

      What? No they didn't. They made a huge play for the generic consumer market. Remember the Pearl? That was their biggest mistake: if they'd stuck to their core strength, the business market, they would have come through a lot better.

      That and the PlayBook; what a farce. And their BB server software is crap.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    5. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      (remember the storm?)

      Not really, no.
      :-p

    6. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by sootman · · Score: 1

      Q: If you didn't work for RIM--say you worked for another technology company--do you think you'd still be using a BlackBerry?

      A: Yes, I think I would absolutely be on a BlackBerry. I'm really not saying this because I run BlackBerry. I belong to the tribe that BlackBerry speaks to. These productivity people, people that are always on their tippy toes, that need to keep moving.

      OK then, BlackBerry can have the "pretentious CxO" market, and Apple and Android will split up the whole rest of the world.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    7. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      The playbook is actually a very solid tablet. It just needs more apps, if that's what you want to use it for. For browsing and watching movies, it's awesome. Why is it "a farce"?

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    8. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still wondering why RIM just gives up on the hardware, and makes an iOS & Android versions of their software stack, perhaps in a way that the Blackberry email stuff is walled off from the rest of the content on the phone, but ways to lower the walls a bit, too.

    9. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows Phone 7 ... is about the only real upgrade of an OS that's better in every respect that I've ever seen...

      That shouldn't have been very difficult to accomplish.

    10. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      A tablet that cant get its own email.....very solid indeed.

      --
      Good-bye
    11. Re:RIM Ignored the consumer by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      It can now, has been able to for a while. And you were still able to check your email, it just didn't have push email. Gmail still worked. I agree that it wasn't fantastic when it was first released, but it's pretty solid now.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
  15. Hmmm by AdmV0rl0n · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have to run Blackberry Enterprise Server. Its a complete pain in the ass in terms of support and main. Its years behind, and its clunky, chunky, and we end up going through endless workload and silly upgrade games. The handsets break if users look at them. I have to do warranty on them daily, and BB now quibble over each return, making the whole thing fail.

    The handsets themselves - good email platform, crap at everything else. And the world _is_moving off being email platform centric.
    Blackberry messenger is a bright point, but that should be broken out and made an application layer across all mobile devices. The same could well be said for the application layer and so on.

    Their network is creaking, but is the one serious advantage that they have, but leverage poorly.

    The playbook should have been a blackberry in a tablet form. Instead you needed a BB and as PB to get function. = Fail. Do not now how that ever, ever, ever passed QA and system testing.

    If I were BB, I would go software only, and build my whole thing as a software/API/Network package, and build on that. Make the software a package available on all main platforms (Android, IOS, Others) and sell on data packages, and data transit using BB networks. And I'd radically overhaul BB enterprise server into something cleaner, better supported and easier to install, manage, run.

    If they stay in the handset market, they need a killer phone/tablet BB 10 release, and they need to cut down handsets to one cheap cheerful, and one kickass model (curve/bold) and stop shipping masses of differening handsets, and make the things robust (the current models are not robust, and are inexusably so) And whatever tablet they ship needs to be a full BB.
    (For the record, the playbook was so close to being very very good, and was wrecked by a simplistically small, but incredibly important part, that the whol board and playbook team need to have their heads banged together until they realise how stupid that fail was)

    Not that anyone at BB listens anymore.

    Nuff said.

    --
    We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.
    1. Re:Hmmm by Guppy · · Score: 1

      The playbook should have been a blackberry in a tablet form. Instead you needed a BB and as PB to get function. = Fail. Do not now how that ever, ever, ever passed QA and system testing.

      My guess is that RIM management considered it to be feature, not a bug. In their previous dominant position, they were so concerned about not competing against themselves, that they forgot to compete with the rest of the market.

      Instead of worrying that Playbooks might erode sales of higher-end BBs, or managing turf battles between their phone and tablet groups, perhaps they figured they would tie the two together, and *presto* -- ensure customers would be locked-in to the combination, and guarantee RIM make a two-for-one sale. Except of course, that instead of choosing to buy both, customers chose to buy neither.

    2. Re:Hmmm by hardwarejunkie9 · · Score: 1

      It seems like a plausible enough explanation and strategy. Have you actually considered *telling* them? Most companies do tend to have a feedback section for such thoughts. They can sometimes be surprisingly well-viewed.

      --
      I like losing arguments, it just means that I can take your point and make it my own.
    3. Re:Hmmm by HIghoS · · Score: 2

      There's a certain appeal to the BlackBerry PlayBook's bridge functionality. You can have your tablet that pairs to your phone over an encrypted Bluetooth connection and use it's data. So you only require a single data plan, not a separate data plan for both your tablet and phone.

      The other key important feature of Bridge is that it has a seamless integration with the BlackBerry when it comes to it's PIM, so you can take your highly secure and locked down work BlackBerry and as long as your enterprise hasn't blocked this particular feature (which you can via the BES) you'd be able to pull up all your work information (email, calendar, contacts, files, etcetc) on the tablet - and as soon as the Bluetooth connection is broken between the phone and tablet, bingo all information is removed from the tablet - nothing ever stays on the PlayBook via Bridge, so it's safe to use in a corporate or enterprise environment.

      It's a compromise but an interesting one-the PlayBook is more of a companion to your BlackBerry and in an work or enterprise environment it has some key features that make it appealing without having to get into an enterprise level MDM solution and having to support yet another device, and having to have yet another data plan.

      Now... on launch Bridge was the only way to get PIM on the PlayBook that has since changed and is no longer a requirement since OS 2.0 launched.

      There are many reasons why the PlayBook didn't ship with native PIM, but the simplest reason is that that PIM software was obviously not ready for launch back in April of 2011 and they HAD to get it out the door as they had already delayed and it was more important at that point in time to be in the market and show the potential then to continue to delay-they already get so much flack because of this as it is.

      So I personally think they made a compromise and obviously history is so far writing it up as a big mistake. There were a lot of rumours that they were trying to make an emulator for the Java BlackBerry OS just like they did for the Android OS and that is how they were going to do native PIM-this could totally be made up, but it makes a lot of sense if you followed the PlayBook's development and how ... lacking the native PIM was so early on in the OS 2.0 beta's in the early days.

      In either case, I don't really think they had a choice, they needed the PlayBook out in the wild for no other reasons then they needed a way get their new platform out in the wild-and so far if you're a developer and if you actually took a look at the platform it offers a fairly compeling option to port or run your applications on.

      And that's the key about BlackBerry 10... it is a new platform they are launching and what RIM is trying to do is unify what they put on their Phones, Tables, Cars, Kiosk-who knows what else. There is a lot of potential and I for one welcome their continued drive to stay relevant in the market. I don't want to be left with Apple iOS, Google Android, and potentially Microsoft as the only relevent options in the world. All three companies have abused their position and my privacy on numerous occasions and I cannot say RIM ever has.

      There's a lot of hate on them right now. It is what it is. Sadly it seems everyone forgets how quickly these markets are growing and how fast things can change. I don't think RIM will ever dominate again, but they are going to cut up a section of the market and hold onto it it like no other. You don't have to be #1 or #2 to be successful. You can be #5 and still be doing business and making money. Otherwise we'd all starve to death ;-)

    4. Re:Hmmm by na1led · · Score: 1

      Our company had all BB phones with BES server. We had numerous issues with BES, till finally we had enough of it, and made the switch to Android and iPhone. For us, BES is what killed BB phones.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    5. Re:Hmmm by acoustix · · Score: 1

      The playbook should have been a blackberry in a tablet form. Instead you needed a BB and as PB to get function. = Fail. Do not now how that ever, ever, ever passed QA and system testing.

      When the BB Playbook was first released I agreed 100% with this statement. However, now that the Playbook can be managed via their new Mobile Fusion Server its not that big of a deal.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    6. Re:Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To get you back into the loop, RIM is moving to a reduced handset count. The first BB10 is going to be the high end thing. The BB7 will be the low end (till more BB10s roll out). The second BB10 is a keyboard based model. Seems to be the half screen style qwerty from what can be made of "leaked" slides.

      The Playbook is pretty much a lightweight BB10. That is, the 2.0 version, not the 1.0. Future playbooks are going to come as 4G models. Those will still be the 7" models. Rumors say that a 10" is coming but no leaked slides on that.

      There is a reason no one at RIM listens to you. It's the same reason for any company. As much as you think you do know, you don't. You can not know more or think more about what RIMM should do than the guy at the top and his subject matter experts both internal and external to the company.

      And to be clear, your comments are quaint, but they only address 10% of the world market. Many coutnries don't have 4G and many don't even have 3G. India is just rolling this out now. Their efforts there are brand awareness/maintenance and a succesful BB10 launch. Think you know more than RIMM? Then expalin how RIMM is finally gaining market share in India (latest quarter up 2%) if they are clueless. Sorry, India is a market 3x the USA. RIMM wants to regain USA market share but it is not a priority.

    7. Re:Hmmm by AdmV0rl0n · · Score: 1

      Let me get this right. A BB platform devices now needs a 'Mobile Fusion Server' to manage it?
      Here is a hint. And I don't mean to be nasty - but what part are you not understanding about Playbook not fitting a Blackberry 'fitment'?

      Maybe you share the current BB problematic management view.

      The Playbook should be nominally have been a Blackberry. The fact it was not was its absolute failure.
      It should be managed by BES.
      No, I don't want 15 different devices, Servers, and management tools.

      Seriously. If someone can't build and provide a platform, and a working one at that, then don't expect me to buy, support, build and maintain it.

      There are simplistic core problems with Blackberry. These are not hard to comprehend. Fix the devices. Fix the server (and I mean that, FIX IT.) And turn round the network. Make it the product its vision once enlightened. Right now, the biggest problem is Blackberry is not very good at being Blackberry. The server sucks. The handsets break if you look at them. The playbook wasn't even a blackberry. And network has clear issues that need proper attention. If you fundamentally fix these, and show all the large mobile networks you are on the warpath, and build on top of that, you have a world class company again.

      Blackberry remains to my knowledge the only platform for certain things. Some of these include secure handset ops, world wide data transit, and client/server ops. These are basically world beating advantanges being overwhelmed by the scale of problems platform wide. And they might crow all day and night about BB 10, but if BES remains the steaming pile of crap it is, and the network isn't given due attention, it won't matter.

      --
      We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.
    8. Re:Hmmm by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      It is simply inexcusable. All of what you described could have been done IN ADDITION to having a stock email client on the device

      --
      Good-bye
    9. Re:Hmmm by HIghoS · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is very unfortunate that the device didn't ship with native PIM applications at launch. Thankfully they've fixed that problem with software updates and it's continued to be improved since.

      Don't get me wrong, even in it's current position the PlayBook OS is severely lacking in many key areas, however it will eventually get upgraded to BlackBerry 10 as it's the primary device developers are using to port or build their applications outside of those lucky enough to attend an BB10 Jam session and get their hands on an Dev Alpha device.

      Complaining about it won't make any difference and nobody has any control over what they decide to prioritize in their software stack, outside of not supporting their business or products-which is the preferred method I like to use... because it's the only way I have to influence corporates-how I spend my money, I wish more people would remenber that there is something they can do instead of just trolling or throwing out negativity constantly-just general remarks here not calling anyone out. Obviously the second step is to advice your family, friends, and colleagues about your stance, but they are all big boys and girls and they should be able to make their own judgements about what they value without me having to constantly hold their hand.

      I'm not making excuses for RIM, more describing the situation as I saw it unfold and pointing out some of the unique features that the PlayBook has to offer.

      I see the potential they have with the new platform, being based upon QNX at the core with a fairly large extension of open source libraries that have been ported to work on top of it and they have done some very innovative things with gestures on the PlayBook and integrating Android applications into BlackBerry AppWorld that look and act just like native applications. The multi-tasking is absolutely fantastic in comparisent to any other mobile platform I've personally used.

      But again, there are some very big problems with their ecosystem-aka considered non-existing compared to the competition, however the developer tools for BlackBerry 10 are completely different then their old BlackBerry OS / Java platform and a lot of people seem to be very uninformed and seem to think that the next revision of BlackBerry is going to be the same old-same old like the past few revisions from OS 4, 5, 6, and most recently 7. Nothing more could be the case.

      They have the potential to do something very unique and they've finally realized they don't need to compete directly with Apple or Google. They've decided to target a certain segment of market and consoladate their resources and aim for it. The company has changed quite a lot in the past year-more so then it has in probably the last 5.

      Am I biased? Of course. Are you? You bet your ass. I just like to be a bit objective and have seen the shift in the mobile market and know it can change again very quickly. There has been a completely radicial shift in the past 5 years where BlackBerry was once king, iOS came out of nowhere and after a few revisions started to dominate, and now Android is taking over everyone-the question is... who is next? The market is still too young, anything is possible.

      Never write someone completely off-those that become desperate are the most dangerous, and in turm those that are the most innovative.... even if they end up failing and dying in the process. It's worth watching them at least and looking at their perspective. It's where you'll learn the most, I think!

    10. Re:Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is all true, but look at one of the comments made in the article, they failed to integrate all their development strands into trunk. He stated they were ready earlier than expected, and then they failed to integrate them all in time. To me, this is software engineering failure, and the branches were not in fact ready.

      I doubt that a company that experiences the above problem to the extent that they did is going to be capable of fixing the core problems you correctly identified.

  16. The Blackberry way by 3CheeseMac · · Score: 1

    If he truly believes that LTE is the cause of their problems they really are sunk. LTE is happening now because iOS and Android are forcing change in how carriers have to supply data to consumers as a result of these devices' rich media capabilities. It is a virtuous (or vicious) circle that RIM was not part of. His enumeration of the Balckberry way (compression, security, etc.) indicates that RIM was happy to live within the restrictions dictated by carriers rather than focusing on what end customers really wanted. Starting with the original iPhone, everyone except RIM suddenly saw another way.

  17. This too shall pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Breaking News: Technology surpassed by another Technology. Former Technology CEO Responds.

    "I would not say that we failed to innovate." (Direct Quote)

  18. If he believes any of this, they are doomed. by tinytim · · Score: 1

    > RIM is still a very innovative company. BlackBerry 10 will absolutely prove this.

    Translation - we have been and are an innovative company, and let me point out this vaporware as my sole example of this.

    I also like the part about their strong discipline with regard to product delays - on a product that's had numerous delays.

    They were 10 years late to the touchscreen party, 5 years late to the functional web browser party, and they are still trying to show up to the UI party.

    1. Re:If he believes any of this, they are doomed. by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      I've been hearing about BB 10 since last year. It's not coming out this year. By the time it comes out, it will be irrelevant. My best guess is that it will have all of the bells and whistles of iOS 4 and will quietly fade away, taking RIM with it. To save RIM, it needs to have tremendous WOW factor, and it won't. It needs to be really, really cool, and RIM doesn't do cool. Maybe if it could make my lunch and drive me to work...

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  19. He's not *that* honest by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm curious why you decided to take the helm at RIM?

    Surely it should be: Money, Al. Huge, heaving, throbbing piles of money, more money than you'll ever see in your entire life, more money than you can possibly imagine.

    No matter how much of this festering dinosaur I have to carve off and throw to the dino-wolves, there will still be more than I can eat, and I'm going to gorge myself on its rotting corpse until we're down to the lips and asshole.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  20. They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Physical QWERTY Keyboard. You are lying if you think otherwise - easily the fastest and most accurate way to type on any mobile device is the Blackberry keyboard. And good ol' Heinsy points that out. I would gladly switch to an android device if anyone would just make a device with a comparable physical keyboard.

    1. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      If you mean that crappy portrait mode keyboard, then there are android devices like that.

      I hate them, and would much prefer a slide out keyboard of reasonable size but they exist.

      Here is one example:
      http://www.androidauthority.com/motorola-defy-pro-is-the-first-ruggedized-android-phone-with-a-physical-qwerty-keyboard-99976/

      You will be sacrificing everything for that though, battery, screen, ram, a good SOC. These are only ever low end to midrange at best devices. Any BB user who is not lying to himself would be ecstatic at the upgrade though.

    2. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never used a blackberry, but I used a Motorola Q (2005 windows phone) that had a blackberry style keyboard and I loved it. My Motorola Droid keyboard is better than an onscreen keyboard, but nothing compared to that blackberry style keyboard. I want the same thing, Android with a BB keyboard.

    3. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Learn to use the swype keyboard, it is very fast and accurate.

    4. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those keyboards are a pile of shit.

    5. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by geoffaus · · Score: 1

      +1 For anyone who has to type lots of emails it is much faster than touchscreen - and still the main reason why I use BB. Plus BB messenger is quite good too As for the comment above about reliability - BB used to be very reliable, almost indestructable. Then there was a period where there were lots of common failures. My current BB the 9360 has so far been very reliable.

      --
      As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference to Godwin's Law approaches 1
    6. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think that the Crackberry keyboard is great...I've got some oceanside property on the Florida Coast to sell you...

      There've been MANY devices to sport such a keyboard...they're so-so with trying to type. Closest device to get it "right" that I've owned was the original Droid. Shame Moto couldn't get an LTE version out with ICS fast enough. That...and having worked with the Libertyville bunch, I've kind of soured on Motorola gear.

    7. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      Eh, there's really no comparing a blackberry keyboard to an android keyboard. It's not even close to being as useable.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    8. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      I've tried, I really can't use that thing. When it works it's nice, but it's not accurate nearly often enough, and then you have to stop what you're doing to go back, erase and try again.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    9. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      As a very fast (and inaccurate) typist who makes copious use of the backspace key, I don't see the problem.
      ;)
      What I hate is sometimes my hand will be sweaty, but not too sweaty and it won't slide across the screen properly, my finger ends up skipping and it messes up the swype functionality.

    10. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Lucky75 · · Score: 1

      IT just seems to fail too often when you swype across a letter that can make it a different word. I find that hitting each key individually is faster, and that's still nowhere near as fast as using a physical keyboard.

      --
      DNA -- National Dyslexic Association
    11. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by SmilingBoy · · Score: 1

      Our company switched from BB a month ago, we could choose between Galaxy Nexus and iPhone 4S (I had a BB Bold 9000 before). I took the Nexus and am very happy, and the only thing I hated at first was the touchscreen keyboard.

      After a short search on the web, I came across the Swype keyboard (also on-screen), which allows you to type a lot faster as you keep your finger on the screen when moving from letter to letter. I think I now type even more quickly than on my BB. The only thing that is difficult is to type while walking, which was easier on the BB.

      I am quite happy now that I chose the Nexus as Swype is not available on the iPhone. Some of my colleagues are quite annoyed that they picked the iPhone after I showed them Swype!

    12. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by Narnie · · Score: 1

      I liked my Android G1 keyboard and the old Sidekick 2 keyboard better than my blackberry. Pretty much the only thing I liked about the blackberry was the battery life and the alarm clock. But, I doubt the battery would last as long as it did if I actually could use my phone.

      --
      greed@All_Evils:~#
    13. Re:They STILL have the BEST KEYBOARD by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Part of the reason RIM is in trouble is there aren't enough people like you who think a physical keyboard is system requirement #1. Sure it's a good keyboard, but that's on of the most insignificant features one could tout. If the other keyboards were simply unusable, the physical keyboard would be a viable differentiation, but most virtual keyboards work good enough for most people, leaving room for things that most people think are more important.

  21. Market position epic fail by vlm · · Score: 1

    Heins blames the company's downfall [partly] on LTE in the U.S

    Do any customer decision makers make decisions based on LTE, or even know what LTE is beyond marketing? No.

    What killed RIM was they were the first to market and became the corporate near-monopoly standard. They focused hard on F500 customers because thats the only place where the money was in the smartphone market. Until everyone and their brother bought a iphone, which tipped the overall market from being dominated by corporate to being dominated by hipsters buying iphone apps.

    Its a balance thing. There are layers of markets. They focused super hard solely on the corporate sub-market of the greater smartphone market, in the early years that submarket was probably 99% of the total market so that was an excellent idea... at that time. Despite being a nearly monopoly player, they actually did a pretty good job almost outta the goodness of their heart. The problem, is years later, the individual submarket explosively grew to a large multiple of the subcorporate market, so they're now a small time player in the overall smartphone market, in a field of near natural monopoly where small time players simply go out of business.

    If they could have released the iphone instead of apple... If they could have become the "android competitor equivalent" to iphone instead of the Mighty GOOG ... but they didn't... so bye bye.

    A good /. car analogy would be there was recently a fad of obese landwhale SUVs which were so popular they tipped the whole automotive market toward SUVs. Then the fad ended. Whoops. Companies that didn't just tilt toward the SUV side but ran as fast as they could to the extreme while ignoring the rest of the market are toast.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    1. Re:Market position epic fail by vlm · · Score: 1

      Oh oh better /. car analogy:

      Every cities got that one car repair shop where they don't care about individual customers because they've got the Big Corporate Contract or the Big Govt Contract.

      Then a zillion competitors open who actually care about individual customers.

      Inevitably the "all eggs in one basket" contract repair shop has an epic fail when the contract ends or the competitive competitors do so much better that the contract repair shop is left in the dust.

      I used to take my car to the local .gov contract shop because my father was a friend of a friend type of deal, otherwise they would not deal with a peon like me. I actually loved it because their workers were used to contract work and had no idea how to BS regular retail customers like me, and the office people barely knew how to bill me (I must be one of the few individuals in the country who paid for CV joint replacement on a Net30 line of credit?). They didn't even have a real waiting room... it was weird yet cool. It advise try it if you get the chance. It was pretty weird, a giant lot full of cop cars and fire engines and yellow DPW service trucks surrounding my little plymouth horizon. Some places do service internally but this was one of those public-private partnerships where a campaign donor charges twice what the internal service department ever charged, etc.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Market position epic fail by whois · · Score: 1

      As an aside, their product was horribly cumbersome to use. The scroll wheel thing was a failure and any setting you had to find was buried deep under sometimes arbitrary submenus. It's bad when your techie people can't even figure out how to get the thing working. It leads even corporate users to start dropping the platform as soon as something comes along that does what they need and is easy to use (iPhone)

      Remember for years corporations were refusing to allow iPhones because they didn't support all the BES features like remote management and wipe, but they were giving exceptions to their executives. That is a BAD sign. When none of your customers want your product but feel forced into it, it's time to do something about that or eventually they'll decide whatever is holding them to it isn't worth the pain.

    3. Re:Market position epic fail by Pope · · Score: 1

      Until everyone and their brother bought a iphone, which tipped the overall market from being dominated by corporate to being dominated by hipsters buying iphone apps.

      Yes, Hipsters. 37 million of them in Q1 of 2012. So many hipsters.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    4. Re:Market position epic fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they could have become the "android competitor equivalent" to iphone instead of the Mighty GOOG ... but they didn't... so bye bye.

      They had their shot, too. Remember back just after the iPhone launched and was a huge hit? It was AT&T exclusive, that was the deal: Apple got to do pretty much what they wanted, and AT&T got to have exclusive rights to the device.

      So the other carriers all needed an advanced consumer smartphone because half-baked WinMo6 crap wasn't cutting it against the iPhone. Sprint tried with the Palm Pre. They pushed the hell out of it. Verizon tried with the Blackberry Storm. The only national carrier pushing Android was T-Mobile, the smallest, crappiest one, pushing the G1. At this point the market for "iPhone Competitor" could have gone to any of the three. You know why Android got it and not Palm or BB? Developers, developers, developers, dev... you know how the song goes.

      If you were a developer chasing volume, you developed for the iPhone and just put up with Apple's bullshit, where the development tools cost a hundred bucks and used some weird-ass language that you'd never seen before and would only run on a Mac and your app would be stuck in validation for weeks/months. If you wanted to try going for a less-saturated platform, well, Palm's SDK sucked and their validation issues were worse; BB's SDK has always been shit, and Android -- wait a minute, Android's SDK works on every platform and there's an emulator and extensive documentation and example code and you just download it from their website and, holy shit, when you publish an app to the Market, it's there in minutes!

      And then Verizon pulled the plug on the BB Storm and started pushing the Moto Droid and Sprint saw that Palm was circling the drain and pushed the HTC Evo and the rest is history.

    5. Re:Market position epic fail by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it would be a good business model to ignore 37 million hipsters, as disdainful as hipsters can be.

  22. In five years by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 2

    Heins will likely join the list of people such as Jonathan Schwartz (Sun Microsystems) and whoever ran DEC at the end as the final CEO of a defunct technology company that one time was a major player. But RIM will likely outlast Nokia for whatever comfort that is worth.

  23. RIM inherits from C= by eddy · · Score: 1

    RIM seems to be the Commodore of this decade. Good product, dedicated following, "killer management".

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  24. IT wants nothing to do with your phone by charnov · · Score: 1, Insightful

    IT does nothing.. and I mean NOTHING... without it being crammed down our throats by management, legal, or regulatory departments. We would rather get back to playing CoD or Warcraft and considering our pay has been on average slashed by half in the last 8 years, that's all the living we get any more.

    --
    [RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
  25. I have an idea by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    I have an idea. Seeing as how I'm the IT Manager at my company and we just switched from blackberries to android devices, maybe they should listen to me. I can't remotely manage android phones at all and certainly not all at once. That pisses me off and makes it so I can't do my job. Why did we switch? The Blackberry Enterprise Server was one giant, glitchy memory leak that caused me to constantly reboot my server. I believe that software is also no longer free. Hmmm. Maybe since they are the only mass remotely managed phone platform out there, they should just develop software that doesn't suck and release it for free then market it to businesses. Then I won't have to deal with rogue purchases and games and music and internet radio streaming and viruses like on our awesome new android devices. The market is wide open, they just need to get their heads out of their asses.

    1. Re:I have an idea by jbolden · · Score: 1

      There are lots of software solutions for securing Android and remote management along with 2 major strategies. If you are serious in wanting to discuss a remote management solution and/or outsourcing remote management send me an email at jbolden AT BlueLotusSIDC DOT com

    2. Re:I have an idea by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Something like a BES that centralizes the management of virtual machines (for sensitive company activity) on a variety of devices? That way, you support BYOD with a remotely-managed (and wipeable) app installation.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
  26. Part of what is really wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting anonymously, this is all second hand.
      RIM has many problems, but a major problem at the moment is poor software design. For instance for BB native apps to talk to one another they write directly to memory, everything is shared. Basically everything has to be re-written for the new OS from scratch to bring it up to modern standards. The shared memory worked great in early models and made things run fast, but as the software got more complicated it slows development time. They are working as fast as they can to re-write everything, so if people wonder why they are so slow bringing out new products this is the major reason.
     

  27. ^^^ Exactly by Picass0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We only just recently turned in our pagers at work ( ! ) Meanwhile I own a Samsung Galaxy 2S (Sprint Epic Touch) which is better than 90% of the phones I see during the day. One concern is proprietary info on personal devices - most phones will play friendly with exchange servers, but companies don't want you to have that stuff on your personal device if you are fired or quit.

    I think part of the reason isn't enterprises being "stuck in the past", but they are more cautious when deploying new systems and approving software for use.

    The economy is another factor. The machine at your desk is already paid for.

    New machines vs. someone salary - it's better to keep your job.

  28. So if LTE is the problem.... by Karlt1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    then how is the worlds most profitable cell phone company selling only 3G phones?

  29. Security is the point they missed by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    Security is important to just about every business. The idea that if the handset falls into inappropriate hands that all the email, all the contacts and all the notes are wide open and available.

    The iPhone has some security but mostly it relies on two things: a very limited amount of email on the device itself and being able to remote wipe the device from the Exchange server. Which means the user has to (a) recognize the device is missing and (b) call IT real quick to get it wiped.

    Blackberry has the edge on this with whole-device encryption which I do not believe exists on either iPhone or Android. This difference all by itself could have been used to RIM's advantage but they apparently missed this being significant.

    One huge failing that I see is the handling of HTML email on the device. Blackberry chose - intentionally - to strip HTML email down and send it to the device to display in text-only form. For the purposes of storing hundreds, if not thousands of company emails on the device in 8GB (or less) it works. For the purposes of dealing with internal company email that some secretary has jazzed up with fancy stationary it works by throwing all that garbage away. Unfortunately, it doesn't work if the HTML in the email really has a purpose. Unfortunately, the answer to this is to go the iPhone/Android way and holding almost nothing on the device - which nobody ever explained to the business users.

    Today, we have Angry Birds instead of security and everything that entails. Sure, the screen is bigger and in some cases more functional. But is this what business customers need? It is clearly what they want.

    1. Re:Security is the point they missed by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Which means the user has to (a) recognize the device is missing and (b) call IT real quick to get it wiped.

      How exactly is that different from how you would deal with a lost/stolen Blackberry?

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    2. Re:Security is the point they missed by cmdrbuzz · · Score: 1

      iOS has on device encryption and a whole set of encryption keys so different data can be protected with different classifications like decrypt only after PIN unlock or decrypt only on this device (and not on the backups).

    3. Re:Security is the point they missed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPhone has some security but mostly it relies on two things: a very limited amount of email on the device itself and being able to remote wipe the device from the Exchange server. Which means the user has to (a) recognize the device is missing and (b) call IT real quick to get it wiped.

      If your IT people have the feature enabled, end users can wipe their own activesync devices with Exchange 2007 & later.

      One huge failing that I see is the handling of HTML email on the device. Blackberry chose - intentionally - to strip HTML email down and send it to the device to display in text-only form.

      False. Blackberries have supported HTML emails for many, many years. You can turn off that feature, or maybe your IT people have turned it off for you.

      It's in Messages - Options - Email Settings - Enable HTML email.

  30. I like John Dvorak. by Picass0 · · Score: 2

    He's proof that ANYBODY can find a job, no skill required, even in this economy.

    1. Re:I like John Dvorak. by DynamoJoe · · Score: 1

      I give him credit for having a reliable game plan. If he needs page views, he bashes Apple and gets at least one fact wrong. Word will spread among The Apple Faithful(tm), and they'll read his work and argue it endlessly, not realizing or caring that every click lines his pockets. He has done this for at least a decade.

      --
      bah.
  31. RIM Market Share by CMYKjunkie · · Score: 1

    From TFA: "I think you will see the shrinkage of the BlackBerry market come to a halt. I think we've bottomed out on this one." - Thorston Heins

    That is, IMHO, **extremely** optimistic! With new Android devices coming out seemingly daily and the new iPhone likely this fall, waiting for Q1 2013 for a new platform is a technological eternity. January is 7 months from now. In 7 months, how much more advanced will Android phones and the "new" iPhone be compared to BB10 devices in development? This is all assuming they don't miss the Q1 13 deadline, too.

  32. Re:I blame by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Funny

    Better than the first choice. Imagine calling out on your Dirty Sanchez Storm.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  33. RIM, you're not paying attention by erroneus · · Score: 2

    The market is doing what it does... it changes. It is the wet dream of every maker/vendor to think they "control the market" in some way. But before they know what hit them, them market changes direction and they are still moving in the same [now wrong] direction they were moving in when the market changed.

    What could RIM do to save their business model? ADAPT.

    Don't toss out those BES's. Don't write off those patents. Build an android phone and then build a blackberry inside of it. Make it a tight little ball that encrypts the file system of the VM it runs in... or better, add its own processor, dedicated to doing blackberry functions. This Real/VM could live inside of "The New Blackberry" which is an Android phone and gets updates and all that, but also comes with an app that enables the blackberry within to talk to the screen and other UI elements and, of course, can share the network.

    They won't have to compromise security with this approach. The blackberry within will still be tight and nearly unbreakable. Plus it won't be burdened with 3rd party apps! It will just be plain, vanilla, predictable and stable. Want apps? Run them on the Android side.

    1. Re:RIM, you're not paying attention by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      If it is in a VM it cannot be protected from the host. It is that simple.

      BB is not currently stable, you make can email stop arriving on their devices by squinting at them. How is this new idea going to fix that problem.

    2. Re:RIM, you're not paying attention by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Why go to the trouble of building another Android phone, when there are already multiple manufacturers doing it for you? Why not just make the VM app for Android and iOS, then manage the VMs from a BES?

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    3. Re:RIM, you're not paying attention by mhocker · · Score: 1

      There is a company that already does exactly this - Good Technology. I investigated using it for our company and it seems to offer exactly what we would need to replace Blackberries with iPhones. But there are some problems that are preventing us from switching:

      1. PIN to PIN messages. Unbelievably, these insecure messages are very popular with some users. No other platform supports them because they are the native protocol of the Blackberry.
      2. BBM. WhatsApp is a good alternative but you have to convinced all your contacts to get it.
      3. No integration of Good with the rest of iOS. So no Siri, calendar integration, etc. It lives in its own little box. Really not ideal.

      So between the network effect (1,2) and lack of integration (3) some customers are not yet switching.

    4. Re:RIM, you're not paying attention by Narnie · · Score: 1

      ADAPT, what does that acronym stand for again? --RIM CEO

      --
      greed@All_Evils:~#
    5. Re:RIM, you're not paying attention by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      if you had been paying attention, their approach is to run the android inside their os, not the other way around- which makes some sense since android is a vm app runner and their os is a real os.

      the part that's fucked up about it is that they still intent to keep the keys to the android runner, requiring repackaging of the apk's to run on their system.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  34. LTE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If that is an an acronym for "Less Than Expected", he's nailed it.

  35. There's plenty of room at the bottom by Picass0 · · Score: 1

    In all seriousness, maybe RIM's problem is pride. They can't let go of their own picture of themselves as a prestige product in the pocket of CEOs. They are so focused on the enterprise they ignore the much wider entry level phone market. They could sell fewer phones for more $ to businesses, or they could flood the low end market such as pay as you go and no contract plans. You don't need to be innovative in that market, you need to be cost effective.

    1. Re:There's plenty of room at the bottom by na1led · · Score: 1

      There is plenty of room for improvement on basic cell phones (ones that don't require a Data Plan). RIM should probably focus their efforts there.

      --
      -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  36. Rotate the BB logo by 90 CCW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you get 7 headstones. Seems fitting given the circumstances.

  37. Re:^^^ Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't be so fast to knock pagers. Pagers have a SLA with a far higher level of service than say SMS on a cell phone! So in some areas pagers are still better!

  38. So Thorsten Heins should buy Atari? by Picass0 · · Score: 1

    Jack Tramiell was the end of (real) Atari. He left C= just as the Amiga was arriving and purchased Atari, created the ST line and then did a poor job supporting them. I don't see RIM putting out anything as cool as the Amiga.

    1. Re:So Thorsten Heins should buy Atari? by Saffaya · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Once the ATARI ST was launched, Jack left the reins to his sons.
      They coasted for 7 years with basicly the same hardware as on launch day.
      When Jack realized the damage done, he made the company leave the home computer market and launched the Jaguar game console.
      We know how it turned out.

    2. Re:So Thorsten Heins should buy Atari? by Picass0 · · Score: 1

      "Once the ATARI ST was launched, Jack left the reins to his idiot son Sam."

      fixed.

      Jack's final insult to the house Bushnell built was the Jaguar. Atari couldn't have enough units ready for Christmas and lost the race for gamer's pockets to Nintendo. Atari cried all the way to court accusing Nintendo of monopolistic practices. Jack's suit was dismissed, and Atari soon went into bankruptcy.

      In my basement at home I have a 2600, a 400, a 1200xl and a 520st. I don't think much of Tramiel, but I loved Atari.

  39. maps? search? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He did not mention MAPS or SEARCH.
    RIM is toast.

  40. Re:^^^ Exactly by stokessd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Plus one way pagers are allowed into places that no cell phone would be allowed. like all tech, they have a place

    Sheldon

  41. Re:I blame by jhoegl · · Score: 1

    Simply orgasmic!

  42. Everything you need to know from the interview by sammy+baby · · Score: 1
    Ahem:

    We had a very, very successful recipe of what BlackBerry was all about. There were four main pillars: battery life; typing; security; and compression. Then there was a shift with LTE. With LTE it was important actually not to save network resources, it was important to load the networks, to sell data plans and sell data volume. We didn't miss on innovation. I think we missed on understanding, specifically in the U.S., that this trend was shifting, and that our positioning and our value proposition in the U.S. market was not following that trend shift.

    So, according to the CEO of RIM, the reason that Blackberries don't sell is that carriers don't want to sell phones that don't require big data plans. It's a good thing I didn't try bringing my new Brick phone to market. I mean, okay, technically it's just a brick with a pretend touchscreen, but it requires to data plan AT ALL.

  43. Being genuine does not matter by leandrod · · Score: 1

    Being right matters. Being genuine does not — in spiritual life certainly it does, in emotional life probably, but certainly not in ðe market.

    --
    Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
    DA, DBA, SysAdmin, Data Modeller
    GNU Project, Debian GNU/Lin
  44. Re:I blame by arth1 · · Score: 1

    the fact they named the company after an unsavoury sexual practice.

    Well, that could possibly explain why he's blaming LTE.

  45. LTE by phorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe not LTE per-se, but faster networks played at part.
    When Blackberry was a shining star, most of their core functionality centered around (comparatively) low-bandwidth textual data exchange. Email, BBIM. Sometimes they might pump a bigger chunk of data but overall nothing compared to media-laden webpages and youtube, etc. Apps generally weren't all that huge either.

    Then you bring out Apple and Android. Web-browser, music store, media, and apps that can be 20+MB to download (plus a few hundred for "content" at times). If we had been stuck at 2G speeds then the best phone-browser would still have been a fairly irritating experience speed-wise. At 3G browsing is fine, but faster networks have enabled "smart" devices to become media hubs for video-conferencing, tethering, movies and live streaming.

    There's a lot more than just "fast networks" at play, but it may have been a contributing factor. That said, it was also a predictable one that RIM should have been prepared for.

  46. Since everyone is to lazy to rad the interview ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Long winded talk on LTE:

    What also happened, in the U.S., was the drive to 4G started, and it got accelerated. Carriers were actually leapfrogging from what they wanted to do with 3G, like HSPA+. They leapfrogged and put a lot of investment into 4G LTE. I think we weren't ready for it. We were busy building our global portfolio. We had a slightly different view on when the LTE rollout would happen. And we made a decision to focus on the rest of the world, which led to some very high numbers, but then, consequently, led to us not being focused on the new, innovative technologies in the U.S. The U.S. regained the lead in mobile technology by doing this. So it was not just that the company was not getting it, it was really that the whole market in the country regained a technology lead in the world. That's a big step. ....

    I would not say that we failed to innovate. RIM is still a very innovative company. BlackBerry 10 will absolutely prove this. I think that the reason is something else. We had a very, very successful recipe of what BlackBerry was all about. There were four main pillars: battery life; typing; security; and compression. Then there was a shift with LTE. With LTE it was important actually not to save network resources, it was important to load the networks, to sell data plans and sell data volume. We didn't miss on innovation. I think we missed on understanding, specifically in the U.S., that this trend was shifting, and that our positioning and our value proposition in the U.S. market was not following that trend shift.

    And of course, you are also not reading about hte paradigm shift withn carriers if you did not read the interview.

  47. WP7 Has No LTE and It's Doing Just Fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WP7 has no LTE and it's doing just fine. Yup, just fine. Muuuhhahhahhahah

  48. He still does not get it by Shompol · · Score: 2

    Lots of MBA speak and imaginary "what did we miss" reasons, but he still does not get the real reason: they are stuck with the "was cool 6 years ago" paradigm. Blackberry Storm is a move in the right direction, but they say it is an utter failure.
    Is he the CEO? I would not bet on Blackberry making a comeback.

  49. Stick to what works by phorm · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, they've fallen down in the corp environment too. Recent phones are less reliable than they were, BES's integration has become clunky (and don't get me started on running it under SUSE) and has a lot more competition, and the OS lacks the features/apps of the competitors.

    However... that's not to say that they need to hit the general-consumer market along with everyone else. Despite great advances, there are still lots of gaps in corporate that Apple/Android haven't yet filled (and don't seem quite as interested in). Yes, there will be those that want them at work due to being "hip" devices, but the business class worldwide could still use a phone that is:

    a) Reliable as a phone / communications device. Good audio. Strong signal. Phone-centric features etc
    b) Lasts more than a few days on battery
    c) Solid (and less breakable)
    d) Convenient and quick for message (I personally *hate* on-screen keyboards for fast typing compared to a BB. Even with Swype it's cumbersome and error-prone. The Droid's snap-out keyboard was nice but seems to have faded away).
    e) Secure (including safe from malware)
    f) Integrates "personal device" well with "corporate tool". I believe Android has taken steps in this direction already in terms of setting aside spaces for "secure" data
    g) Portable (doing away with carrier locks would be nice. Dual-SIM for those that do international business would be cool)
    h) More useful for stuff like presentations, etc. Pushing your powerpoint from a phone to a large display perhaps? Hardware addons for projectors?

  50. Hard to get apps published. by virtigex · · Score: 1

    I worked on a product that had app for iOS, Android and BlackBerry. It took months to get a app approved for BlackBerry, much more than the iOS app store. We went through a couple of versions of Android and iOS, before RIM got around to approving our two-generations old version. Rather than give users an old and clunky version that no longer fitted the way we were doing things, we pulled the BlackBerry app and dropped BlackBerry support.

  51. US market was kept dumbed down by VZW & Sprint by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    Verizon's decision to pursue LTE before it was actually ready was a master stroke in keeping the market fragmented and avoiding head to head competition and they even managed to screw up LTE so that they had their own special 700 Mhz band for LTE instead of the standard one. Other countries including Canada have multiple carriers sharing a set of frequencies for both HSPA/HSPA+ and LTE so why couldn't regulators in the US force direct competition on the same devices in the US?

    Then there is the whole problem with Sprint trying to push WiMax as a competing standard to LTE and keep their old creaky CDMA for voice and texts.

    Interestingly, in Canada the CDMA carriers decided to go with HSPA+ by November 2009 to be ready for the 2010 winter olympics held in Vancouver. Part of the impetuous for this was overwhelming popularity of the iPhone in Canada and the lack of Android options on CDMA for Canadian carriers to use. Most of the "super" phones on Android were either Verizon exclusives or already using the proprietary version of LTE on Verizon so the Canadian carriers had little choice but to go the HSPA+ route and directly compete head to head with the offspring of the old Rogers/AT&T partnership known as Rogers and Fido.

    All of this back story led to different attitudes about phones and carriers. In Canada, the iPhone brought about a new view of phones and carriers with the phone becoming more important than the carrier you were on and carriers became "dumb pipes". In the US, it seems like people talk about their "phone bill" and not wanting manufacturers to add charges to that bill and that is the old school way it used to be in Canada. We Canadians now see carriers as a necessary evil for the phone we bought and want to use and not as the sole source of the "phone" we want. The carriers are seen as a utility rather than a provider of hardware in Canada and the increased direct competition has led to lower prices on data plans and flexible month to month tablet data plans.

    In a round about way, I am saying that the RIM CEO is partially right that the LTE push was a problem but Apple avoided that by not courting Verizon and Sprint early in the game but instead focused on international expansion.

    RIM's issues go deeper than the carrier fragmentation in the US. Their software stack and hardware are outdated and too dependent on BIS and BES.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  52. the blackberry was a quantum leap in it's time by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    secure email on your cellphone with a really good interface was a really big deal in its time

    them iPhone came along, shortly thereafter android, and took the next quantum leap

    that's the whole story

    and don't worry about it RIM: somewhere, some team is thinking up the next quantum leap, and android and iPhone will be left in the dustbin of history, just like all those blackberries

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  53. Strategy by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    If RIM wants to take back the smartphone market they should use their existing managed architecture for a new purpose: Smartphones for families that allow BES control and monitoring of children's phones by parents, combine this with making BB phones available for prepaid accounts (in addition allow people to buy their BB service separately (something really cheap, like 5 bucks a month or less) from their mobile and data so their @blackberry email, BB Messenger, server assisted web browser, etc. still work)

    if they are able to capture the bottom end of the smartphone market they can use their best liked services (BB Messenger, push email) to start rolling up the rest of the market.

    despite their weak performance at the top end of devices, compare a cheap blackberry to a cheap android, blackberry comes out way ahead on battery life, responsiveness, and UI, in addition their server assisted web browsing saves a lot of bandwidth for users with limited amounts of transfer (I am on my Bold 9700 all the time and rarely pass the 75% mark on my 200 megabyte plan)

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    1. Re:Strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If RIM wants to take back the smartphone market they should use their existing managed architecture for a new purpose: Smartphones for families that allow BES control and monitoring of children's phones by parents,

      It's not exactly what you're looking for, but the Blackberry Enterprise Server Express is completely free and has most of the features you get with the full BES. If you can run your own Exchange or Lotus Notes server, this might be an option.

      combine this with making BB phones available for prepaid accounts

      That is a mobile carrier decision.

      I sometimes travel in the UK, and it's very easy to buy a prepaid SIM with blackberry service from many companies to avoid paying international roaming charges. Same thing for Italy & Canada.

      On the other hand, when I travel in France, no one sells prepaid SIMs with blackberry service.

      I don't know why, maybe some weird telecom regulations in France?

    2. Re:Strategy by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i know things like that can be set up using BES Express, i mean offering it as a family plan option with a nice non-techie UI for parents to inspect thumbnails of photos taken, chat/email records, etc.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  54. the cost of bandwidth changed by FeatherBoa · · Score: 1

    Blackberry, like all the phones that came before iPhone, was designed with the needs of the carrier first. The carriers need handsets to have a small data footprint so that lots of subscribers can be handled on a network at low cost to the carrier. Blackberries and their apps are still caught in the requirement to do something useful using microscopically small, closely controlled amounts of bandwidth.

    What Apple did was totally break the bandwidth blockade by going to the carriers and saying "here is this shiny sleek gewgaw and you can only sell it if you also have data plans that are much cheaper than what you have now". And the miraculous thing was that the carriers caved.

    Opening the bandwidth spigots meant that any idiot could make cool apps do things that the RIM guys had spent years optimizing to run with almost none. A BB can do usable email with 200 BPS, but who needs that when I have 250 KBits and can just do IMAP on my regular email provider?

    That's when everything changed.

    1. Re:the cost of bandwidth changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What Apple did was totally break the bandwidth blockade by going to the carriers and saying "here is this shiny sleek gewgaw and you can only sell it if you also have data plans that are much cheaper than what you have now". And the miraculous thing was that the carriers caved.

      Only briefly. After a couple years the carriers killed off the unlimited data plans and increased their data rates.

      Further, if you roam internationally you will be very happy that blackberries are so efficient with data usage.

  55. Re:^^^ Exactly by crashumbc · · Score: 1

    Its funny, I had a post last year (maybe 2?) where I came in on the side of "Pagers" for level of service and reliability.

    Today, its the opposite, We are in the process of turning ours in because they are becoming LESS reliable then our phones. There are spots less then 5 miles from my hospital where they don't work because the pagers companies are turning off towers as fast as they can.

    I fully expect "normal" pagers to be dead in 4-5 years (probably much less)

  56. baby steps... by slew · · Score: 1

    RIM CEO Thorsten Heins...

    What also happened, in the U.S., was the drive to 4G started, and it got accelerated. Carriers were actually leapfrogging from what they wanted to do with 3G, like HSPA+. They leapfrogged and put a lot of investment into 4G LTE. I think we weren't ready for it. We were busy building our global portfolio. We had a slightly different view on when the LTE rollout would happen. And we made a decision to focus on the rest of the world, which led to some very high numbers, but then, consequently, led to us not being focused on the new, innovative technologies in the U.S. The U.S. regained the lead in mobile technology by doing this. So it was not just that the company was not getting it, it was really that the whole market in the country regained a technology lead in the world. That's a big step.

    So if I can paraphrase: We were only ready for baby steps. We thought the USA was silly to take a big steps so fast. So instead we tried to finish our milk(-ing of previous investment). Now we want to take that step to keep from being left behind and we found out whoa... That's a big step.

  57. Here's the short version... by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

    Here's the short version...corporations used to do their own employee cell phone packaging and distribution. RIM had good tools for that. Then corporations told their employees to go buy their own phones, and employees with the money for a blackberry bought an iphone. People without the cash for a blackberry or iphone bought a cheap android phone. RIM kept making expensive phones that were excellent for an enterprise setup, which nobody needed anymore. RIM management then kept doing the same thing, rinse and repeat. Now it appears the shareholders have paid the management team to find a lot of reasons other than "We suddenly became irrelevant and didn't see it coming or do something about it once it had".

  58. Re:^^^ Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We only just recently turned in our pagers at work ( ! ) Meanwhile I own a Samsung Galaxy 2S (Sprint Epic Touch) which is better than 90% of the phones I see during the day. One concern is proprietary info on personal devices - most phones will play friendly with exchange servers, but companies don't want you to have that stuff on your personal device if you are fired or quit.

    I think part of the reason isn't enterprises being "stuck in the past", but they are more cautious when deploying new systems and approving software for use.

    The economy is another factor. The machine at your desk is already paid for.

    New machines vs. someone salary - it's better to keep your job.

    Most places (including ours) to connect a personal phone to the exchange network, they must also have remote wipe ability for exactly this reason. Even iPhones have this ability.

  59. Symbian is RT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Symbian is real time too

    And with a possibility for "run from ROM" or "execute in place"(that is, executables are not first loaded into ram but rather libraries and such are executed directly from the rom).

    it doesn't really help with responsiveness though, it only helps you to shoehorn your phone stack to the same arm core as the os.

    1. Re:Symbian is RT by jbolden · · Score: 1

      You gotta still work on the scheduler. The RTOS makes it possible but that's only the first step. Haven't used a Nokia in about 8 years so not talking from experience with Nokia though I have used RTOSes including a much earlier version of QNX.

  60. Solution for delays: hire cheaper programmers by misnohmer · · Score: 1

    TH: "The delay of BlackBerry 10 is not because we added stuff to it. The delay is because our software groups were actually so successful in coding..."

    If coding the a set set of features (so no feature creep) too quickly causes overall delays in product release, either hire slower programmers or insist on long weekends every week for everyone! You'll make the schedule AND save money on paychecks! :-)

  61. Re:^^^ Exactly by Kasar · · Score: 1

    They might come back.. maybe not pagers, but something a little less capable. I'm always amused when going into "secure" areas with signs posted saying no cameras allowed, but people in the area are using a variety of smartphones. A few incidents and phones without cameras might show up in some large corporations again. I'm not sure anybody even makes them anymore, someone must.

    --
    vi? Who's that?
  62. just noticed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    was his nose always that big?

  63. BB Don't Lose Your Iconic Keyboard by Shempster · · Score: 1

    Dear RIM: BB is the last mobile device with an excellent keyboard at the same quality level of the legendary HP-41C calculator). Don't lose this iconic feature of Blackberry phones. Unless you create something truly outstanding that will be immediately acceptable to your existing loyal customer base, you will fail if you phase out the iconic keyboard. I'd rather have an Android than a keyboard-less BlackBerry.

  64. Controversy sells. by gottabeme · · Score: 1

    This whole brouhaha is a red herring. He's like a talk show host: He's paid to have opinions and to express them vehemently, not to be right. Sometimes he's even like a lawyer, when he's asked to debate an issue's pro or con side, not to simply consider facts and offer a rational opinion.

    It's kind of silly, like, oh, I don't know, ridiculing a marathon runner for not winning the race, when all he was trying to do was finish.

    Whether it's good to publish pieces that are simply vitriol is another matter, but I guess he wouldn't get paid for it if they didn't sell--which controversy does.

    --
    "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
  65. This is why some Sony phones can't be unlocked by tlambert · · Score: 2

    They use a Qualcomm Snapdragon single core chip which uses TZones in order to implement the moral equivalent of a hypervisor to run the baseband firmware on the same processor they use to run the UI.

    Since there are four published exploits for the TZone model, letting people unlock the phones would let them have access to the baseband software, and through that, the ability to modify the SDR (Software Defined Radio) to operate outside of FCC/pick_your_country's_regulator spectrum.

    Since the regulators have a gentleman's agreement to allow licensing of SDRs only as combined software/hardware blobs, this tends to piss them off and revoke licensing.

    The newer Sony dual-core phones are permitted to be unlocked for developers because they avoid this vulnerability.

  66. Re:^^^ Exactly by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

    They might come back.. maybe not pagers, but something a little less capable.
    I'm always amused when going into "secure" areas with signs posted saying no cameras allowed, but people in the area are using a variety of smartphones.
    A few incidents and phones without cameras might show up in some large corporations again. I'm not sure anybody even makes them anymore, someone must.

    A lot of phones are available with a camera delete option for corporate purchase.

  67. Over Analysis by stewbacca · · Score: 2

    RIM has to be the most ridiculously over-analyzed business failure in history. Pick up a Blackberry, use it for 5 minutes. Pick up an Android or iOS device and use it for 5 minutes. Blackberry is terrible, by comparison, and there are only so many stiffs on the planet to justify the "enterprise" features of Blackberry over the other fully capable, yet better designed devices. They simply tried to duplicate the 1990s Microsoft business model of selling a bunch of boring stuff at razor thin profit margins to business stiffs who don't care about anything but the bottom line price. Problem is, people expect more from business tools these days.

    Here's a fun anecdote...circa 2008 all the program managers were toting around their Blackberries (the ones with the stupid scroll wheel). In a meeting and someone needs to check something on the Internet...bunch of dopey PMs whip out their Blackberries but none of them can successfully find/get to/access the web page we are trying to look at. I whip out my shiny new first gen iPhone and am on the site in 5 seconds. Also, for all it's supposed "enterprise functionality" same PMs would come to me on business trips to fill out our time cards (required daily by government contracts) because their "enterprise" Blackberries had problems reliably accessing the VPN to get to the timecard. They also couldn't get their email when they had VPN access issues. You know what connected flawlessly to our Exchange Server via VPN without any need to put an IT ticket in and be without a device for a week? Yeah, my iPhone (and my coworkers' Androids as well).

    So yeah. Be first to market for enterprise level tools on a phone but then spend the rest of your existence being last to adopt things like "touch screens" and there ya go. Business failure.

  68. Re:^^^ Exactly by stewbacca · · Score: 1

    The economy is another factor. The machine at your desk is already paid for.

    Well, I left the typical crappy Dell Cube Farm style office a year ago, but I can tell you, the machine at your desk in this environment is being leased, not paid for. Dell's genius is not in making good products (because they generally don't), it's with locking in hundreds of millions of dollars worth of lease contracts with government entities.