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Why Amazon Wants To Pay Sales Tax
Maximum Prophet writes "A while ago, Amazon caved on paying individual states sales taxes. Now we know why. Amazon is setting up same-day delivery warehouses everywhere. They will put most normal retailers out of business." If that's a bet, I'll take it.
shop at wal-mart?
This all seems strangely familiar to me. Would be interesting if Amazon could pull it off, though.
Huge business boom forthwith. $$$ to be made here, folks.
Imagine a corporation that large agreeing to raise prices for every product it sells so it can reap none of the extra three to nine percent.........out of the kindness of it's heart.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Driving to brick-and-mortar stores is an expensive time-waster. The more online choices I have the better.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Still, if brick and mortar specialize then can still do well for themselves. Just give up the bulk order stuff Amazon handles in volume.
Sucks, if they threaten your meal ticket, but this whole trend has been going on since Sears & Roebucks sent out their first catatlog.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Local retailers (and apparently Walmart, too) were the leading forces in pushing such legislature through in many states. They obviously (and rightfully) fear that Amazon could completely destroy them. This legislation, they thought, would force Amazon to compete with them on an even playing field. Except the playing field was never even to begin with. Even if you force them to abide by the x% sales tax rule, they still completely dominate you in terms of convenience, selection, sheer operations efficiency and economies of scale. Only Walmart could really hold a candle to them. This is going to blow up in the brick-and-mortar retailers' faces and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves for their downfall.
I have a prime membership with them. main app on my phone is the Amazon store and code scanner, go into Wal Mart see an item touch and play with it. if i like it then i check how much on Amazon and then buy it, it is then at my home with in 2days (1day on most things). My wife is disabled and can not drive, so Amazon has been a wonderful thing for us and our kid.
I don't mind paying the sales tax if I could get same day delivery with Amazon Prime.
"If that's a bet, I'll take it."
Really? Amazon already gets 5k-10k from me a year. If this pans out, they'll probably get double that. That's real money that is no longer going to other businesses.
Japanese scientist: Technically, sir, tomatoes are fags. Military scientist: He means fruits.
That represents another cost disadvantage that local businesses still face in some neighborhoods.
First manufacturing was destroyed, and the economy is still barely adjusting. Now retail is being threatened. Whats left for 300 million people to do? Interesting times indeed.
Yeah, let's let Amazon get a monopoly so they can jack up prices. Or do you morons actually think they'll keep their prices so low after running out of business the alternatives?
You seem to think that once a business gets to the top of their space and starts acting stupid no one knocks them off. You seem oblivious that Sears used to be the retail giant with stores everywhere that couldn't be topped.
As long as Amazon is doing it better then I am all for them expanding.
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The real reason amazon is ok with collecting sales taxes now, is that they are getting a percentage of the tax collected.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/19/business/la-fi-amazon-sales-taxes-20120520
bad for teens/20s. most of the jobs available are low paying service jobs working retail. take those away and...
Many of the items sold on Amazon.com are sold by small businesses or individuals. Amazon doesn't set their prices.
If there is a king of efficiency and lost cost in distribution and retail sales, it is Wal-Mart. You don't think they are just going to sit there and do nothing while Amazon moves in, do you?
Necron69
Wouldn't Amazon have to maintain a gigantic inventory across all these so-called "same day delivery warehouses" in order to make it work? Wouldn't that cost huge amounts of cash? More to the point, wouldn't there be a huge tax liability from all that inventory?
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I'm in one of the states where Amazon recently announced they agreed to collect sales tax. Starting in about a year and a half.
At first, I couldn't figure out why they agreed. Although, I understand, there were discussions going on between Amazon and the state government, from what I could see it was nowhere near the level of contention that I've read about in other states, where lawsuits were flying back and forth.
But I figured that there had to be a business reason that Amazon thought worked in their favor, for them to agree so readily to this. After thinking about the various possibilities, that's pretty much what I thought was going on. I have a huge Newegg warehouse a mile from here, this area is convenient to all the major highways, and there are many other warehouses here. I figure that Amazon was planning to open a warehouse here, so they figured that they'll have to do it anyway, but now they bargained at least a year's worth of tax-free sales.
Then, a week ago, on a Thursday, I ordered some junk from Amazon. Super-saver shipping. Previously, it took them 4-5 days to ship, from somewhere out on the Left Coast. This time, the stuff arrived the following Monday. The tracking info on the package started somewhere in Joisey. Go figure.
I wouldn't be surprised if, in a year, they'll figure out a way around the sales tax anyway...
The concept of having people go to their local Best Buy to "try" out a product, then going home and ordering it online, only to receive it from a local warehouse is kindof humorous.
"Intelligence has nothing to do with politics!"
-Londo Mollari
I don't think so. The added costs of the warehouses everywhere, and the employees to staff them, will add a huge cost increase to their bottom line. They'll also have to carry much more inventory, since they'll have to keep the product in stock at each of these warehouses. This will likely result in more inventory write-downs. This is a move that opens a huge door for other online retailers, allowing them to step into the role Amazon is vacating.
and the only people they put out of business was themselves.
How many people shop at Amazon BECAUSE there is no tax? I would wager a huge portion of them from what I can tell reading online forums.
Without the tax break Amazon is going to be in a worse position than they are now. I don't know how much of an effect it will have but it will be something and they may be underestimating it.
I think Amazon is alright some times but they're not perfect. Just recently I ordered some car parts and the parts they sent were some off-brand made in China crap instead of the name brand high quality parts that I paid for. Apparently they think any substitute part is OK since it's for a car when in reality it's like sending an ATI video card when I ordered nVidia. Then I get charged to send it back because although they are suppose to reimburse shipping when they screw up, their estimate for shipping it back to them is way lower than any way you as a individual can ship something.
Most retailers are already hurting. A 10% drop in sales can kill them. They could easily see that in major cities. It would be an amusing turn if they killed off most of the Walmarts since they killed most of the mom and pop stores. The problem is it hurts employment across the board. Stores go under which is obvious but the lesser known affect is by shopping on line you don't have as much impulse buying so all the companies making those products will go under. Walmart already did that one. If a company couldn't get on the shelves in a Walmart there's a good chance they'd go under. Instead of a dozen or more shelves they could potentially get on they had one shot at it. Amazon does have a massive selection so the potential is huge for major cities.
Perhaps what we need is for people to get back in the business of producing. Our family business maximizes vertical integration and just-in-time manufacturing to make it so we control our process, product and profits. We do work with retailers and they take about a 50% cut. To make it we have to make sure that we keep as much as possible of that other 50%. Unlike many businesses, our family actually does the work. We farm. We turn sunlight into food.
"You seem oblivious that Sears used to be the retail giant with stores everywhere that couldn't be topped."
Not to mention Montgomery Ward, who owned the mailorder space before the Internet. They still exist in name, but no one cares.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
They were also the store that everybody ordered 'online' products from. Back then they called it mail order. They also sold everything. From shoelaces to houses.
Nobody took down Sears. Sears didn't web. Web cut Sears down. Being beeg cut Sears down.
Also who cares if they get taken down YEARS later. Your prices go up now. Your unemployment goes up. You worship at one temple, you get what you paid for. Enjoy your masters. Decentralization is the cure.
Amazon depends on small businesses, so this instance it's not so bad.
So as a result of Amazon caving to my state on the tax thing, I pay 8% more for my purchases, but might eventually get them a day faster. Not being the impatient and impulsive sort, I liked the old system a lot better.
This could however make other online retailers a lot more attractive. If I want to buy, say, an iPad, the cost is the same from any merchant thanks to price-fixing. So I could buy it locally for instant gratification, or online to save the tax. Before Amazon was my go-to for online purchases, being the fastest of the tax-free options. Now, however, I would go to a competitor with no physical presence in the state in order to save good money for waiting a couple extra days.
You're basically saying that lack of competition doesn't matter because eventually someone will catch up. Not only is that faulty logic, that "eventually" can last for decades, as was/is the case with Microsoft's products.
Monopolies should be cut at the root whenever possible. Which is exactly why Adam Smith's invisible hand of free markets sometimes needs help from the state.
Amazon already has the computer know-how to jack prices up or down depending on its market position (and the customer it is dealing with...) Not sure what can be done about it.. except tax them more...
it is worth pointing out that Amazon will start COLLECTING sales tax not PAYING sales tax. The consumer is the one who will PAY the tax.
It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
Yes, there is quite a few of us techno-geeks who like to get everything while sitting in our computers but there is a big shop/consumerist culuture out there that will not accept paying for an object without going to a mall for a walk first and look at it before buying it.
Seattle has great farmers' markets, so he has no excuse. If you want fresh produce to be delivered, get a CSA. Many places (like Seattle) can have fresh produce delivered to your door weekly. The money also goes more directly to the farmers producing it.
The point was made, and rightly so, that Amazon providing local same day delivery will put a tremendous burden on local businesses.
Someone else pointed out that a lot of what Amazon sells is actually coming from other businesses with Amazon acting as the mediator.
And so, it seems to me that local businesses who manage to survive will be the ones who have learned to sell through Amazon. Not competing online but using Amazon as the internet mediator between the business and the customer. Sort-of like a lot of businesses (some being very small mom&pop) are doing now.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
The brick-and-mortar stores bitched and whined about online purchases not being taxed and how they were at a disadvantage. Okay, now the online competition has figured out how to collect sales taxes and still beat their ass.
It's almost laughable.
amazon has really sophisticated robots. this means a lot more jobs for our binary brained friends. so if you think too many robots are running around, out of work, just taking up space and using valuable silicon, here's their chance to really get out there and help do some of the heavy lifting.
but in all seriousness, i've worked in retail, as a salesperson, and in a retail tire store as a service tech. now i'm a technician on airplanes, and i'll tell you what, if you could order the parts you need for cheaper, i'd still install them for the same price, but without the hassle of warranty work. you lose a little profit, but also overhead in not needing trained salespeople, maybe just a mobile app for scheduling.
until of course.. the robots take my job, then i'll just have to start repairing them. and then they'll repair eachother, and i'll just have to retire and let the robots i stole from my last job, after deeming them "totaled", do all the work for me.
over paying sales tax and getting same day delivery.
If I remember my dot.com history correctly it was the picking and packing aspect of the business that killed on-line grocery WebVan.
Kiva Systems was founded by a former WebVan exec. He saw that Webvan was very popular with customers, but they couldn't deliver the service at a low enough cost. If they could eliminate the people...
Webvan's real problem was botched expansion. They had 3% market share in 30 cities, when they needed 30% market share in 3 cities. Too much truck mileage per shipment.
Safeway does grocery delivery now, but not very well. They just use order pickers picking from retail store shelves. So their systems don't really know what's in stock. Most orders thus lack some items ordered. A more automated system knows what's in stock, so the customer gets to decide when ordering how to handle out-of-stock conditions. (Ordering a different brand or size or item is an option then. Safeway doesn't do that.)
Delivery uses less energy than shopping. There's some whining about the "thousand mile salad", but moving a 45,000 pound truckload of lettuce a thousand miles uses less energy per head of lettuce than the 5 mile trip in the 2 ton SUV that moves 20 pounds of groceries.
A few more years, and automatic driving will meet up with automated warehouses.
the invisible hand will correct. You'll shop some where else when the prices go up, right? And you'll work somewhere else when there's only one employer left, right? Or you'll just go work for yourself. I'm sure the banks will loan you the capital, or that Amazon will pay you enough in Salary to save the capital, right?
Or the Government could step in and break up the Monopoly. Wait, strike that. that's socialism.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
People have ordered merchandise out of a catalog from Sears Roebuck & Co., Montgomery Ward, etc. since long before the internet. Amazon is doing nothing new. The internet is just a convenient way to publish a catalog and take orders automatically.
It always happens the same way. A big retailer gets established, gains some monopoly power, and starts selling anything and everything. Then it starts discontinuing the lower-volume, less profitable items, and raising the prices on the remaining items, because this seems logical to management. Then their customers start looking for and finding deals elsewhere, simply because they can't find what they were looking for where they used to shop, and they find out the prices where they used to shop aren't that great anyways.
Yes, I know Amazon came up with the "long tail." But it never lasts, because in the end retailers are always infuriated by those customers who for some reason or another happen to be looking for something that is outside the realm of high-volume high-profit mass-marketed consumer products that all big retailers like to specialize in.
You seem to think that once a business gets to the top of their space and starts acting stupid no one knocks them off. You seem oblivious that Sears used to be the retail giant with stores everywhere that couldn't be topped.
As long as Amazon is doing it better then I am all for them expanding.
Is your ISP doing it better than anyone else could? Your mobile carrier? Your bank?
I would rather wait a week than pay the 10% sales tax I have to endure in my state.
Once they start charging sales tax, bye bye amazon for me.
Eh? Who's prices went up? Sears lost because everyone else's prices went down.
Walmart has a monopoly in plenty of places, but it never raises prices beyond what is standard (inflation and all). Even the world's most "evil, monopolistic" company of all time, Standard Oil, never really raised their prices. Hell, they knocked prices down by 90% from the time they started to the time they were broken up.
The one that I see that will be having issues is not Walmat, but Best Buy and maybe even Frys. The question is how will they adapt.. (Frys might be able to do it, but I doubt best buy has the agility...
--
Time is on my side
http://pdfernhout.net/beyond-a-jobless-recovery-knol.html
Raising children well and being a good citizen and good neighbor will probably always absorb about as much attention as adults can put into it... We buy a lot of stuff from Amazon -- in part because it is very convenient, and we get an enormous selection, and we don't have to think much about the security of each vendor relationship, and it saves us time and gas traveling quite a distance to stores. I tend to view the Amazon website as like the interface to some really slow Star Trek Matter Replicator that takes about two days to make just about anything. Eventually that wait time will get smaller and smaller for more and more things. Yes, this will add up to large scale social consequences though as more and more people do this. Maybe everyone in the world should just get a US$2000 credit deposited by the government (from taxes and royalties and newly issued money) every month at Amazon as a "basic income"? :-) Our economy is fundamentally changing but most pundits and politicians and especially mainstream economists don't talk about it.
As I write on the main page of my website:
In brief, there have always been five interwoven economies, and the balance of them changes with technological changes and cultural changes:
* A subsistence economy ("There's some lovely berries over here.");
* A gift economy ("The meat from this deer I hunted is going to spoil; I'll share it with the tribe, and others will share their hunting results some other time as they have in the past.");
* A planned economy ("Let's put the longhouse here. I'll cut the trees, you level the ground, you over there will put up the walls, and you over there will cook us some food while we are busy with these other tasks.");
* An exchange economy ("You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. I'll trade you some of my extra berries for some of your extra deer meat.");
* A theft (or conquest) economy ("What's yours is mine because I'm stronger, cleverer, sneakier, or can afford better lawyers.").
Paid human labor has less and less value due to several causes including:
* robotics, AI, and other automation,
* better design,
* the accumulation of physical infrastructure,
* relatively cheaper energy (which can often substitute for human labor), and/or
* the emergence of voluntary social networks.
So, we can expect the balance between those five interwoven economies to change as our technology and society changes, perhaps with:
* A subsistence economy through 3D printing, gardening robots, local PV solar panels, and other local clean energy technologies (like cold fusion or something else);
* A gift economy through the internet, like sharing digital files to use with our 3D printers or gardening robots, or coordinating the movement of free goods like through Freecycle;
* A planned economy on a variety of scales, including through taxes, subsidies and regulation affecting market dynamics;
* An exchange economy marketplace softened by a basic income; and
* Minimizing the impulse to theft (or conquest) and related violence through the previous four changes.
The particular balance a society adopts is going to reflect the unique blend of history, culture, infrastructure, environment, relationships, mythologies, religions, and politics of that society.
Understanding this big picture is all part of rethinking socieoconomic institutions for the 21st century based on new (yet old) paradigms.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
And hell in a perfect world game oh sorry lamestop will go bankrupt as well.
Infact I hope most retailers die off. Im tired of poor staffing, shitty employees, bad company policies, high prices and being pestered at every turn to upgrade this or buy into that plan.
The retail experince on the whole has gone to shit. Its like companies at brick and mortar stores are now self focused instead of customer focused. We go into these EXPECTING bad customer service. What happened to retail that we are shocked when we get good service now? Its like a surprise to get a good experince at a store.
So I say fuck the big chain physical stores. Im all for shopping with amazon, newegg and so on. I dont have to deal with shitty employees, drive anywhere, deal with other customers, I save money and automated service is often better than real person service.
Besides if I dont like dealing with amazon to get a game or movie Ill get on ebay.
That which is good appears. That which appears is good.
From the bowels of the Spectacle, our culture rots.
One, for me, the choice to buy at a local store isn't about instant gratification, it's a scenario where I feel a need to browse and actually see what I'm buying. Plenty of stuff I buy online, and I am never really phased whether it would take two days or over a week. It's about the in-person evaluation.
Also, a *whole* lot of people seem to assume that if Amazon did maintain warehouses in every city as well stocked as their currently less numerous warehouses, that Amazon's prices would stay the same. Prices might have to drift up to cover the inherent costs associated with the model. Hell, even today maybe 10-15% of the time my brick and mortar store actually beats the best Amazon deal I can find for whatever reason.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
...to Best Buy.
But not Radio Shack...somehow they always survive.
Radio Shack is the cockroach of the retail world.
Once they charge sale's tax, you'll still have to pay shipping on top so it will be a costly proposition to buy from them. I'll order my stuff from another state where I only pay shipping rather than shipping and sale's tax - or I'll go to the store and pick it up myself so as to avoid the shipping charges.
I have enjoyed Amazon from the start and been a Prime subscriber for years. However, my purchases have declined greatly over the last two years due to third party sellers. Last year 90% of the items on my Christmas purchase list (Toys, Electronics) were from sellers marking up items to 50% so hopefully this will drive the availability up and prices down.
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They will put most normal retailers out of business.
What's your definition of "normal"? If you only shop at big-box stores that compete solely on price and provide little or no customer service then yeah, shopping as you know it is dead. And good riddance.
But there are lots of retail businesses for which customer service counts a lot more than price or convenience. Here's an independent bookstore that's doing well despite being in a declining business in an economically depressed area. Why buy books here when you can order anything online, usually for less? Because sometimes it's fun to go into a space staffed by people who love books and just browse their well-curated collection.
(I often wonder if Borders might not have survived if they'd stuck with their original browser-oriented business model instead of only stocking books that were easy to move. Once price and popularity became their total business model, they had no hope of competing with Amazon.)
Another example: I recently bought a vacuum cleaner. Having wasted a lot of time shopping for vacuums both online and in department stores, only to end up with expensive, overmarketed ("doesn't lose suction!) crap that conked out after a year or so, I decided to give a small specialty chain a try. Some woman in a shop apron asked me about my needs and my budget and showed me a simple machine that was just the ticket. She took it apart and showed me how it worked (always a good sales technique when selling to a technogeek) and walked me through procedures for replacing the bag and the fan belt. An easy sale for both of us.
Of course, the first thing I did when I got home was look for the same model online. I would have been OK with having paid a little extra for the local expertise — but as it turned out the model I bought similar competitors were all hard to find online and actually a little more expensive.
The role of brick and mortar stores is shrinking, but there will always be things they know how to do better.
The writer talks about using Amazon during the day to buy goods online that are waiting for him at home at the end of the day.
If you're spending so much time doing online shopping during the day, how are you productive at work?
And what's to stop employers blocking amazon.com with their proxy/firewall to ensure that their employees are actually working and not spending the day shopping at virtual malls?
Amazon is much better than wal-mart in selling goods from mom and pop businesses and boutique brands. They have warehouses
warehouses need goods made by workers. amazon is much better for manufacturers and people who make things than walmart with
its outsourcing.
From the Wikipedia article you linked to:
"The Luddites were a social movement of 19th-century English textile artisans who protested ... replaced ... with less-skilled, low-wage labour, leaving them without work and changing their way of life (See "Dickens, Charles" for what life without work was like in 19th Century England)
Battles between Luddites and the military occurred at Burton's Mill in Middleton, and at Westhoughton Mill, both in Lancashire. It was rumoured at the time that agents provocateurs employed by the magistrates were involved in provoking the attacks. (Sound familiar?) ...and the present action had to be seen in the context of the hardships suffered by the working class during the Napoleonic Wars.
"Machine breaking" (industrial sabotage) was subsequently made a capital crime (Breaking a loom meriting a death sentence?!) by the Frame Breaking Act, 52 Geo. 3, c. 16[9] and the Malicious Damage Act of 1812, 52 Geo. 3, c. 130[10] – legislation which was opposed by Lord Byron, one of the few prominent defenders of the Luddites – and 17 men were executed after an 1813 trial in York. Many others were transported as prisoners to Australia. At one time, there were more British soldiers fighting the Luddites than Napoleon I on the Iberian Peninsula.
Hmm, a social movement protesting societal changes which left many to starve in the streets. This movement was met with ridiculously Draconian responses including executions and exile to Australia, and repressed with the use of more military troops against their own civilian population than were devoted to stopping Napoleon. The Draconian legal responses seem to have been specifically drafted to please wealthy company owners.
You know, I think you've got it exactly right. I think the Luddites have a lot to teach us about the times we live in.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
make full time 30-35 hours so you get rid of the 39.5 part timers and stop places like walmat and others from jerking around hours to keep people from being full time.
Your Suggestion:
Eventually, the price of labor will drop below the subsistence wage level and people will fail to subsist (i.e. they will die). This will reduce the supply of labor, until the system returns to equilibrium.
Ebenezer Scrooge's Suggestion, "A Christmas Carol"
``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,'' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''
``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.
``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''
``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''
``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.
``Both very busy, sir.''
``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''
``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,'' returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?''
``Nothing!'' Scrooge replied.
``You wish to be anonymous?''
``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''
``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''
``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that.''
``But you might know it,'' observed the gentleman.
``It's not my business,'' Scrooge returned. ``It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!''
You weren't supposed to take Ebenezer as a role model. I strongly suggest you repent before the third ghost finishes with you.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Just about every job taken away from retail is going to be replaced by a warehouse job.
UPS and other package delivery companies will also have to hire more.
Has anyone calculated the energy savings from people not driving to the grocery store?
I think on the whole this is a positive thing.
retail has had it too good for too long. they're demanding a free market when it suits them, and outright protectionism when it doesn't.
internet = choice. if amazon fuck up, people will go elsewhere and wait an extra couple of days for their shiny to arrive.
Oh please. I suppose Wal-mart is just biding its time then, as well? Go take your fear mongering elsewhere.
Well, legally/technically you do have to pay the sales tax anyway, it's just that online merchants weren't required to do this for you.
Expect a moment where state tax authorities get a list of all purchases from a couple major online vendors; correlates it with your tax filings, and sends out bills with tax+fines for everything that you were required to declare and pay tax on.
Geez you guys. Its just a damned store. Being big has an opportunity cost of being slow and risk averse. Honestly I don't get why people think companies WANT to keep 100's of millions of dollars in inventory in each state. They do it, ONLY cuz they can reliably move it. This means they can satisfy most customers but NOT ALL OF THEM. Why? Because perfect forecasting does not exist. Smalls stores fill-in the gaps of want and needs. Think customization. Big shops can only go so far in this regard, because every customized feature is a separate SKU. Like Bret Reynolds said, "Special orders do upset us!" You guys gotta be young, cuz Sears did this shit like 200 years ago. And remember these guys are retailers, THEY DON'T MAKE ANYTHING. Just because your closer to your customer doesn't bring the producer any closer. So, logistics costs are just multiplied by a factor for every store you have.
"People can do other things to make money. Produce things for sale, even."
As long as they don't over price themselves against the other producers that Amazon and the like consumers purchase from, such as manufacturers in China and other Asian countries. So they'll need to keep their wages costs below 10 dollars a day to remain competitive if they wish to sell goods produced by the large Asian manufacturers.
Of course some niche producers can charge more, e.g. violin makers, but this is not likely to employ 300 million people.
The problem with being a low-price player is you have to always have the lowest price. Yes, most more expensive shops will go out of business. Yes you'll end up with a monopoly or duopoly situation, however when those retailers abuse their power and raise prices, a small shop will pop up to fill the price gap again. The playing field will remain level if you have enforcement and legislation to prevent the larger party from abusing its supply chain position. This is how apple retains its dominance over new technologies like the retina display - they buy up all manufacturing capacity for a year or two so nobody else can have it. Walmart consistently does this and nearly bankrupts its suppliers too - read about Vlassic Pickle's near bankruptcy. Prevent the supply chain abuses and retailers will need to remain sharp and low-priced offering the consumers the best value for money. Then you'll have the service-survivors. The players in the market who do not try to differentiate on price. Think of the small boutique electronics shop who will come to you home and get you the right system for the acoustics of your room. Or the small coffee shop where the owner knows your name and your order when you walk in. There you pay more for the additional service. Everyone in the middle... offering sorta good prices and half-assed service will rightfully be pushed out of the market. Differentiate or die... just because someone's been there for 50 years doesn't mean they have a right to be there for 51.
Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
OK, so earlier Amazon was cheaper than local stores, because you didn't have to pay the local sales tax you'd need to pay if you bought from your local store. They seem to be switching to a scheme where they can deliver stuff to you quicker, but the prices are higher because of the tax. Sure they might kill some of the local competition, but it shouldn't affect the prices that much. All you need is some other company that ships from another state and thus can compete with the price - keeping it low.
Only dumb birds land downwind.
Amazon could do same-day delivery without any in-state infrastructure. Just pay another warehousing company to store and deliver the goods when asked to. Even paying a little premium for that, it's gotta cost way less than probably hundreds of millions of dollars of sales tax.
The next time a storm with 80MPH winds comes through and people's power is out for a week, they'll be happy to know they can just log onto Amazon to buy bottled water and genera-- OH WAIT...
"Shouldn't the goal of an advanced society be zero employment?"
TFA neglects to mention that Amazon is negotiating to receive a cut of the sales tax it collects:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/19/business/la-fi-amazon-sales-taxes-20120520
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
The supply line not just of goods but of jobs will be deeply affected. If all the brick and mortar stores go out of business, so will many web designers, as there will be a sharp contraction in the need for their services. Marketers, copy designers, local vendors to stores...
It's inferred that this warehouse was Amazon but never confirmed http://www.motherjones.com/rights-stuff/2011/09/amazon-warehouse-heat-shipping. There is always a price for free shipping and low prices. Just because you cannot or do not want to see it, does not mean it isn't there. Now, I need to go order that Rob Zombie Voodoo Doll.
I believe that is check and mate retailers.....
So that would mean you would shop locally or did you manage to find another on-line retailer with the same products that doesn't charge state tax....moron....
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. The states pushed. Now Amazon is playing the game. It is too late for normal retailers.
Aside from try to protect their internal supply chain processes as trade secrets, there isn't much Walmart can do to counter this. I suppose that they could try contracts with suppliers to forbid them from doing business with Amazon. I imagine that would result in multiple lawsuits.
Local stores used to care about customer service. Now, you can't even find someone to help you.
I got tired of it and just went to Amazon.com where I could at least read reviews to help me when I had questions.
Step 1: Go to Amazon, use their search engine to find somebody selling the new/used item you want.
Step 2: Exit the Amazon ecosystem and navigate to that particular seller's webpage.
Step 3: Order the book directly from the seller, by-passing the Amazon sales behemoth.
Simple. Amazon is the digital Walmart. Using them to support honest retailers is easy and fun!
I would rather wait a week than pay the 10% sales tax I have to endure in my state.
You have to endure them whether there's fast shipping or not (unless you're 'cheating' on 'your' taxes).
Better option: New Hampshire, Alaska, Oregon, Montana, Delaware. Somehow their governments get along just fine without the sales tax. New Hampshire and Alaska get listed first because they lack a personal income tax as well. New Hampshire gets to the head of that list by not depending on oil revenues to offset it.
Amazingly enough, New Hampshire just got ranked best place to live in the US - again. Mighty strange coincidence. Despite what some will tell you, it's *not* because it also came out on top of the custom-sized prophylactic survey either.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
i bought bicycle parts on amazon for about $50. the freight was about $20. how much would this stuff cost at my local bike shop? i'm guessing about $70. why did i go with amazon? i got to choose stuff i wanted, not held hostage by the one wholesaler who services the bike shop. the wholesale/retail deadly embrace still exists: there is only one wholesaler available for the shop. so i should buy something i don't want in order to support the local economy?
I like technology. I approve of technology. I even got degree in it. Physics is my friend. :-)
My problem with the original poster is the callous disregard they show for the people whose lives were destroyed by the disruption. Being poor in 19th Century Europe inspired men like Charles Dickens, H. G. Wells and Victor Hugo to set pen to paper. Dickens and Hugo talked about what is was like to die in the streets. Wells had to pull up a race of cannibalistic monsters to describe his opinion of it.
Manual weaving is a skill that takes years of practice to properly learn. The people who apprentice to it get committed in their life's course, and changing careers in the 19th Century was not a widely available option. I've had people who tell me John Henry should have put down that hammer and went to work as a mechanical engineer. Sometimes they're just cheerfully oblivious to the fact that an illiterate black man in 1800s America didn't really have that as a choice. Sometimes they're just smug, cold-hearted bastards.
Oddly enough, most of these "Let them eat cake" types I've met were usually milk-fed and well-sheltered. I started life homeless at 17 with no family connections at all, so I know first-hand how unlikely their flippant response to the problem is.
the UK was already one of the wealthiest nations on Earth with one of the highest life expectancies.
For the people who got counted on the books, sure. For Dr. Watson and his kids, you bet. The Baker Street Irregulars didn't show up on the rolls, however.
To some degree, the displaced textile workers really didn't know how good they had it. They could have had the misfortune to be born in Angola or the Solomon Islands, for example.
Really? Benjamin Barker should be happy he didn't end up in a Josef Conrad novel? That's your answer? Just be glad you're not part of "...the Horror, the Horror"?
Look, I cheer the invention of the looms, the cotton gin, the steam engine and all the rest of it. I love technology so much I've devoted my life to it. I just think the least we can do as a civilized people is to take some of the plunder that disruptive technology floods us with and use it to pension off the people we've made obsolete.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Already there have been successful robot waitresses, and as robot costs drop we'll see that last resort low-paid job begin to disappear too.
And truck drivers will probably be out within 20 years, as autonomous vehicles become widely available and accepted. Google has demonstrated them already, as have various university research groups. Nevada has licensed them. The military wants them. I want them--when I'm no longer able to drive safely, or when I'd rather read a book while going somewhere, I want an autonomous car.
So we face a much more serious problem as a society: there are not going to be nearly enough jobs. But we need consumers, everyone needs money. How will people get money, and health insurance, if there are no jobs for them?
Stop progress to preserve jobs? That's going to seem like make-work, not very satisfying.
Expand welfare?
The only writer I'm aware of who has seriously dealt with this issue is James Albus, a roboticist, who wrote "People's Capitalism". It's an unfortunate choice of title, kind of turns people off, but a good thoughtful book.
His basic idea is to acknowledge the common ownership of our system and infrastructure by giving everyone a literal share in it, like a grand mutual fund, when they turn 18. The shares generate dividends, and the fund promotes progress in technology, giving everyone a vested interest in making things better. He estimated that about 20 years after starting this system, the dividends would amount to enough to survive on and by combining two or more people one could live reasonably.
He also figures this income would enable marginal creative enterprises, like "hobby" leatherwork, so people could spend time doing things they enjoy but mostly supported by their investment in this fund.
The virtue is it's living like the rich do now, off investment income. There's no welfare stigma associated with that.
Seems to me we need to start thinking seriously about some such solution to the oncoming joblessness problem.
Amazon has been offering same day delivery to my home for over a year now. I now use Amazon for a great deal of my shopping and I am very pleased. As far as choice goes, Amazon offers a far better selection than all the local stores combined. The just started a new program that lets you order things that are too inexpensive to be economically reasonable to be shipped. They instead piggyback them onto other bigger orders. So I can now order a toothbrush or a a roll of tape from them and have it added to my next bigger order. The wait is never long as we get deliveries from them several times a week.
These new, same-day delivery warehouses everywhere will be called... stores.
Why not retrain?
In 19th Century England, "second acts" generally didn't happen. When there's a surplus of young, desperate people willing to work all hours for anything at all, no one wants to hire the "worn-out" 50-year-old. As for shipping them off to colonize Australia, think of it this way. How about we take all of our 55-year-old laid-off middle managers, give them a year's supply of their blood pressure medication, and then drop them off in Somalia so they can find work?
But let's talk about today. We have an admitted unemployment rate that hovers around 9 percent. Roughly one out of ten. I've seen other studies that take the ratio of (number of people actually employed)/(number of people available to work), and find that about HALF of our labor force are out of work.
We can retrain the displaced workers. Where do you propose they get hired? Remember, we're talking in the aggregate here, not just a lucky few. Just because people sometimes get a natural 21 in Blackjack doesn't mean we should tell them to count on that to pay their rent.
OK, let's take your suggestion. We're going to move them to Australia and have them set up a colony. Australia got somewhat on the map economically through farming and even more so through the frankly brilliant strategy of discovering gold in their back yard.
"Hi. We know you've been a skilled tradesman supporting a wife and kids here, but we're going to ship you off to a godforsaken hole on the other side of the world filled with desperate criminals. We'd recommend you strike gold as a survival strategy. OK, why aren't you smiling? You don't look happy. Look, you're gonna get two weeks of free retraining in communication skills, networking and interview presentation..."
OK, we had Horace Greeley and his "Go West, young man" moment. Let's swap the American West for Australia. Notice Horace didn't say "Hey, all you old people! Grab some corn squeezin's for your rheumatism and move toward the setting sun. You're done here! Head for San Fransisco, maybe you'll find gold."
OK, OK, we did have the Oregon Trail and the Oklahoma Land Rush. We'll discount the massive fraud and cheating by the Sooners. How about we offer our old people the same deal we gave our brave pioneer forefathers?
People went to Oklahoma and Oregon to get 160 acres of free land. Married couples got 320 acres in Oregon.
I LOVE YOUR PLAN. You got a deal. From now on, displaced workers get up to 320 acres of free farmland in Oregon for "retraining."
OK, I'll pry my tongue out of my cheek. Why not retraining? Because the private sector wouldn't have any use for them. Technology has already displaced so many workers we don't have enough jobs for people in their "prime." Now, if you want to talk about hiring them in a massive government program to put them to work for the public good as teachers, social workers, mentors, infrastructure workers, etc., I can absolutely get behind that, but I can already hear the Bill O'Reilly apoplectic rage of "SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! FRACKING TIDES! HOW DO THEY WORK?!"
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
amazon takes advantage of loophole in the tax system created by a different company to grow to become the largest online retailer. so large that it can, and has, put brick-and-mortar companies out of business....
so now they're large enough and popular enough that they don't need that unfair advantage, one that cost states billions and billions lost sales tax revenue btw.... they can afford to build in major cities to compete with and destroy local brick-and-mortar retailers.
quill, the company that fought for this tax loophole is now a part of staples... staples won't survive this.. and will fold or be sold-off within five years of amazon's same day reach hitting 50% of businesses.. sadly but probably... to amazon.
in the end, we'll basically be left with walmart or amazon for (most of) our shopping... OH JOY.
People are selling their own country down the tubes as fast as humanly possible, and you can see it in the streets, in the hollowed out city cores and the eyes of the jobless.
But yeah, keep buying Chinese plastic crap on Amazon, putting manufacturers and retailers and business owners out of work with all your billions of collective selfish choices. Stupid, stupid rat creatures.
You reap what you sow. America is getting exactly what it deserves: it is the result of its own choices. Nothing more, nothing less.
don't even think all those Crafstman tools are still US made... most of the close-outs ones are made in USA but all the new stuff is coming directly from China with, sadly, the same price tag.
the rules regarding the branding of stuff as "US made" are pretty elastic too.
What will happen to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class if every country follows CHINDIA economic/export/currency tricks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renminbi#Value
Casteism
Govt in the pretext of patriotism protects monopolies instead of entrepreneurs because they get big taxes and politicians get funds from them
Casteism
I don't know about where you all live, but around here the small business sell specialty items which you either can't get, or would be more expensive to get on Amazon or at Wal-mart.
For example, the local yarn shop sells locally raised and handspun yarn; at walmart all you can get is the cheap made-in-china stuff, some - not all - of the yarn at the yarnstore you can get on Amazon but it costs considerably more.
Walmart doesn't even have comic books, Amazon's selection is pitiful and pretty much limited to recent stuff, while the local comic book store contains things you would have to scour ebay for and then pay shipping and risk your book being damaged in the mail.
The local stores have weekly meetups where the customers hang out with other people that share their hobbies. For the comic book store it is Wednesday. new comic book day, when everyone comes and gets their new comics... for the yarn store it is Monday, when they have a "stitch and bitch". The local stores are owned by experts on what they sell, which you can go in and talk to or email and ask questions and get an immediate answer. Online forums come close but can't truly replace all this, and Amazon's and Walmart's forums certainly don't come close. And even with the local stores you can call or email them and order something and pick it up or have them drop it off at your house on the same day.
There are no local stores for the stuff that I buy at Walmart and Amazon; there has not been for a long time. The locals stores that actually provide something more than Amazon and Walmart do will survive. Those that don't, won't. Evolve or die, it is the same as anything else.
Actually, a bit of history. Amazon was gearing up to do 4-hour home delivery via UPS just before the Internet stock market crash of March 2000. Amazon was going to have a mini-warehouse at all UPS depots stocking the top selling books and CDs (this was before Amazon expanded massively into all the other retail categories). Most UPS trucks return several times a day to the depot to drop off and pick up deliveries, so the orders could be thrown onto the trucks at that time and you could get your merchandise in about 4 hours. Apparently, Amazon is still thinking about how they can do this 12 years later!.
I read no comment on BJs. Is it in the mix anywhere? Not that I care, it is very limited now but if the concept is profitable, would it enlarge & jump in?
Also, Will there be compettition from smaller stores or co-ops? They often offer speciality items overlooked by the big gobble-you-up-drive-you-out giants.
I'd love to have groceries delivered but live in a rural area, cannot believe it would ever be profitable here. Do use Amazon but am cooling on THAT! Tiny items come one by one, in huge boxes so I feel too guilty to continue the Amazon experience, handy as it is. And Amazon product descriptions are ridiculous - sometimes it dosnt even give a dimension or size!!
So how is this different than pick up in store unless Amazon plans on amassing thousands of more trucks than even UPS or FedEx? You can already order online and then go to the front desk of a store to pickup in store for convenience.
you liberal hippies can suck it. You get what you deserve for your brain dead socialist policies. Your state can die for all I care.