Slashdot Mirror


Open Millions of Hotel Rooms With Arduino

MrSeb writes with an excerpt from Extreme Tech about a presentation at Black Hat: "Bad news: With an Arduino microcontroller and a little bit of programming, it's possible for a hacker to gain instant, untraceable access to millions of key card-protected hotel rooms. This hack was demonstrated by Cody Brocious, a Mozilla software developer, at the Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas. At risk are four million hotel rooms secured by Onity programmable key card locks. According to Brocious, who didn't disclose the hack to Onity before going public, there is no easy fix: There isn't a firmware upgrade — if hotels want to secure their guests, every single lock will have to be changed. I wish I could say that Brocious spent months on this hack, painstakingly reverse-engineering the Onity lock protocol, but the truth — as always, it seems — is far more depressing. 'With how stupidly simple this is, it wouldn't surprise me if a thousand other people have found this same vulnerability and sold it to other governments,' says Brocious. 'An intern at the NSA could find this in five minutes.'"

268 comments

  1. Well, that's it! by camperdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bad news: With an Arduino microcontroller and a little bit of programming, it's possible for a hacker to gain instant, untraceable access to millions of key card-protected hotel rooms.

    Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Well, that's it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Bad news: With an Arduino microcontroller and a little bit of programming, it's possible for a hacker to gain instant, untraceable access to millions of key card-protected hotel rooms.

      Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

      Not a complete solution, I'm sure there are other devices that could be used. To solve the problem completely we'll have to outlaw programming.

    2. Re:Well, that's it! by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "...who should be scolded for not disclosing the hack to Onity before going public"

      a) As if they don't already know what the hack is.
      b) If the only solution is to change all the locks, maybe on their own dime, do you think disclosure will make them volunteer to do it?

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Well, that's it! by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

      Never forget. If you outlaw Arduinos, then only outlaws will have Arduinos.
      I don't think anyone wants that. :)

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    4. Re:Well, that's it! by billcopc · · Score: 2

      That's not sufficient. We have to go all the way and outlaw thinking. It's the only way to be sure no one defeats our puny weapons with their superior intellect.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    5. Re:Well, that's it! by uigrad_2000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

      That's the beauty *cough* of the DMCA. They already are illegal! They will continue to be illegal until the Library of Congress makes an exemption.

      I'm not completely sure if owning them is legal or not. The DMCA prevents "dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures". Later provisions in the law cover cases where the device is not intended for circumvention, but is frequently used that way, such as open source DVD player software, which is not intended for copying the DVD, but can be used that way. Simply owning an Arduino would not qualify as "dissemination", but if you unknowingly sold or gave away your Arduino, I'm pretty sure you could be charged with breaking the DMCA. It's unlikely that you would be charged, unless the person that bought your Arduino proceeded to use it to break into a hotel room, but the point is that it's nearly impossible to avoid breaking this law!

      --
      Free unix account: freeshell.org
    6. Re:Well, that's it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad news: With an Arduino microcontroller and a little bit of programming, it's possible for a hacker to gain instant, untraceable access to millions of key card-protected hotel rooms.

      Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

      Or, mandate that everyone carry an Arduino.

    7. Re:Well, that's it! by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Bad news: With an Arduino microcontroller and a little bit of programming, it's possible for a hacker to gain instant, untraceable access to millions of key card-protected hotel rooms.

      Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

      Or, mandate that everyone carry an Arduino.

      There would be a lot less people robbing old ladies if they knew that she could pull out an Arduino and blow them away with her programming.

    8. Re:Well, that's it! by vandamme · · Score: 1

      You'll have to pry my Arduino from my cold hands

    9. Re:Well, that's it! by gmanterry · · Score: 1

      Bad news: With an Arduino microcontroller and a little bit of programming, it's possible for a hacker to gain instant, untraceable access to millions of key card-protected hotel rooms.

      Well, that's it! There's only one thing we can do... outlaw Arduinos

      But if Arduinos are outlawed, only outlaws will have Arduinos.

      --
      Since when is "public safety" the root password to the Constitution?
  2. Lock the door when inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I always lock the door when I'm sleeping. Hopefully your hotel at least has a safe in the room to reduce your chances of property theft when you're away.

    1. Re:Lock the door when inside by Iniamyen · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't fret, most hotel rooms have safes secured by Onity programmable key card locks.

    2. Re:Lock the door when inside by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Informative

      Many of those safes have backup passwords, hotels generally do not change the default one.

    3. Re:Lock the door when inside by magarity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Obviously that person meant the chain lock that's separate from the key card lock. I hope not just the deadbolt; the ones built in to hotel key card lock mechanisms can be opened by the master key card. Not the ones the housekeepers carry but the one the chief maintenance guy keeps in his office. One assumes this hack can open the bolt as well as the regular latch.

    4. Re:Lock the door when inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Read it again. He mentioned safes, separate from the door lock.

    5. Re:Lock the door when inside by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 2

      I've stayed in â20/night hostels where key cards served dual purposes.

      Shared dormitories had individual lockers for each inhabitant. Multiple key cards would open the room but each only a single locker.

      In this situation, a 'housekeeper exploit' could possibly find the locker code compromised, even if the room code remained secure.

    6. Re:Lock the door when inside by specific · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've never hacked an Onity programmable key-card lock, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

      --
      If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
    7. Re:Lock the door when inside by SilverJets · · Score: 5, Informative

      You mean those safes where hotel staff have a master code that unlocks them in case the guest forgets the code they set? Those safes?

    8. Re:Lock the door when inside by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 4, Funny

      the chain lock that's separate from the key card lock

      Or according to Jon Stewart - "I have a chain lock on my door that says to criminals 'you're not getting in here......unless you push....kind of hard....with your hand'."

    9. Re:Lock the door when inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was it an official International Youth Hostel? I avoid those as much as I can and stay in private hostels, usually one recommended by the hostel in the previous leg of my trip. Most private hostels have lockers where you can use your own padlock, so much less risky. (This is anywhere outside US, don't know anything about US hostels and don't want to know either)

    10. Re:Lock the door when inside by magarity · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but while sleeping deaf hotel guests might be in trouble anyone else would be awakened by the breakage.

    11. Re:Lock the door when inside by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Was it an official International Youth Hostel? I avoid those as much as I can and stay in private hostels, usually one recommended by the hostel in the previous leg of my trip. Most private hostels have lockers where you can use your own padlock, so much less risky. (This is anywhere outside US, don't know anything about US hostels and don't want to know either)

      Is hostel a EU spelling of hotel? Not familiar with the hostel spelling. YOu said it more than once, so guessing it isn't just a typo....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    12. Re:Lock the door when inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. A hostel is distinct from a hotel, although they are both places to stay.

      You can't be from the US because there are hostels all over the US.

      Youth Hostels are cheap places to stay in, often shared rooms, dormitories, etc. You want a bed for cheap when travelling and don't care about mod cons, go to a hostel.

      You should watch the Hostel 1 and 2 movies.

    13. Re:Lock the door when inside by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

      Is hostel a EU spelling of hotel? Not familiar with the hostel spelling. YOu said it more than once, so guessing it isn't just a typo....

      And that sums up the situation with US hostels.

    14. Re:Lock the door when inside by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Oh wow.....never heard of this?!?!?

      Wow..people actually DO this?

      I don't think I'd be comfortable sleeping in a room full of strangers...I'd be afraid of getting my stuff stolen, or maybe eve worse...?

      And I can't really see bringing a girl along on a vacation and doing something like this....doesn't seem like it would make that good of an impression on her....or even picking one up in a bar, and coming back to a non-private room.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:Lock the door when inside by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 3, Funny

      Why call them safes then? Let's call them UnSafes!

    16. Re:Lock the door when inside by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Obviously that person meant the chain lock that's separate from the key card lock. I hope not just the deadbolt; the ones built in to hotel key card lock mechanisms can be opened by the master key card. Not the ones the housekeepers carry but the one the chief maintenance guy keeps in his office. One assumes this hack can open the bolt as well as the regular latch.

      We had a problem with a hotel safe once. When the tech guy came he popped the plastic keypad off to expose a serial port then hooked up his iPhone to it and opened the door. I wonder how secure that is...

      --
      No sig today...
    17. Re:Lock the door when inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just searched for Onity on Google. According to their marketing stuff, the portable programmer works on their safes as well.

      So a good way to work on your Arduino sketch would be to check into a room with a safe for the weekend and take control of the safe.

    18. Re:Lock the door when inside by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

      When I worked in Manhattan I was next door to a couple of hotels and one hostel. You could not have mistaken the third item for the first two.

    19. Re:Lock the door when inside by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you think that hotel safe gets reset after you leave? I'm pretty sure that they don't have a guy walk around guessing 4-digit codes on the hotel safes...

    20. Re:Lock the door when inside by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      How do you think that hotel safe gets reset after you leave? I'm pretty sure that they don't have a guy walk around guessing 4-digit codes on the hotel safes...

      I'm guessing not everybody's childish enough to lock the safe before they leave the room. If they do, the next guest will call reception and they'll send up the guy with the iPhone.

      --
      No sig today...
    21. Re:Lock the door when inside by Pope · · Score: 3, Funny

      We had a problem with a hotel safe once. When the tech guy came he popped the plastic keypad off to expose a serial port then hooked up his iPhone to it and opened the door. I wonder how secure that is...

      Lies! iPhones and iPads are for content consumption only, and cannot possibly used for real work.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    22. Re:Lock the door when inside by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Hostels are where you meet the girl in the first place...

    23. Re:Lock the door when inside by plover · · Score: 1

      We had a similar problem. The security guy (not the maintenance guy) hooked up a Palm Pilot (ok, Handspring Visor) to a similarly hidden port to pop it open. He also had to set a magnet on the top of the safe, which I suspect triggered a reed switch or hall effect transistor.

      --
      John
    24. Re:Lock the door when inside by timbo234 · · Score: 1

      Put simply a hostel is where you 'rent' a bed that may be in shared room for one or more nights as opposed to a hotel where you 'rent' a whole room for yourself for one or more nights.

      You'll find that almost all hostels, in both western and eastern Europe, are very professionally run. Theft is very uncommon and really isn't something you need to worry about beyond putting valubles (passports, laptops, phones, cameras, credit cards and spare cash) in a locker.

      A lot of hostels have female-only rooms but even where those aren't available no hostel (or the 99.99% of the guests who are decent people) are going to tolerate harrassment or assault.

      Friends from here in Europe say the hostels in Australia are of similar standards to in Europe. The US is different altogether though, friends of mine who are used to staying in hostels in Europe had really bad experiences trying it in the US. Either the hostel was expensive and crap or it was actually more of a half-way house for homeless and criminals. We've avoided US hostels since then.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    25. Re:Lock the door when inside by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You should watch the Hostel 1 and 2 movies.

      You must work in PR for an expensive hotel chain.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re:Lock the door when inside by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Yeah...I can't imagine that hostel thing would go over too well in the US....we like our space and don't really want to share a room overnight with total strangers.

      I went to Europe once...and was shocked to find in one hotel there...there was only ONE bathroom per floor, that everyone had to share, rather than every room having its own bathroom and shower/bath.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    27. Re:Lock the door when inside by timbo234 · · Score: 1

      I've experienced the same, in the Ukraine in an old 'Soviet-style' hotel. But the price of less than 5 Euro/night including free-Wifi took the edge off any discomfort :) In any hotel in western Europe you should have your own bathroom, unless it's a really cheap place with prices comparable to a hostel.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    28. Re:Lock the door when inside by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      I'm torn as to believing you are so shockingly naive and uncultured or are some new form of troll. Either way, it spells bad news for Slashdot and US'ian culture in general.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    29. Re:Lock the door when inside by DrVxD · · Score: 1

      Is hostel a EU spelling of hotel? Not familiar with the hostel spelling.

      They're spelt differently, because they're different words having differing (albeit related) meanings.
      Hostel
      Hotel

      --
      Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
    30. Re:Lock the door when inside by DrVxD · · Score: 1

      Yeah...I can't imagine that hostel thing would go over too well in the US....we like our space and don't really want to share a room overnight with total strangers.

      I've stopped in hostels on three continents, and had a great time. For the young an impecunious traveller, they have the advantage of being cheap (a fraction of the cost of a hotel). I wouldn't want to stop in one in the US though, since it would most likely be full of Americans.

      I went to Europe once...and was shocked to find in one hotel there...there was only ONE bathroom per floor, that everyone had to share, rather than every room having its own bathroom and shower/bath.....

      You must have chosen to stay in a really cheap hotel - those places exist, but they're not typical. I've been to Europe a couple of hundred times, and never stayed in a hotel where I've had to share a bath/shower.

      --
      Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
    31. Re:Lock the door when inside by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I'm torn as to believing you are so shockingly naive and uncultured or are some new form of troll. Either way, it spells bad news for Slashdot and US'ian culture in general.

      Not trolling....was my first trip outside the US, to Paris and London, I ran into the bathroom shared by a floor in London, and I'd never heard or seen such a thing before. I was about 16yrs at the time.

      That just isn't something your run into in the US.

      My thoughts back then about what America meant to me when I got back home was "Air Conditioning, Ice Cubes, and Private Toilet Facilities."

      I was shocked that so many places didn't have AC, and were often warm (we went to the Paris Air Show)....and that they were so seemingly stingy on filling a glass with ice for a cold beverage like a coke or something..and, of course...the shared bathroom in the hotel thing.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    32. Re:Lock the door when inside by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Hopefully you now understand that the US has gotten it's lifestyle by abusing resources in an unsustainable manner and usually by misappropriating them from other countries. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The real question is how do we solve this? If the majority of US'ians believe that one person taking up the resources needed to sustain a thousand people is the norm and an inalienable right, conferred by might, then what hope do we have?

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    33. Re:Lock the door when inside by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Hopefully you now understand that the US has gotten it's lifestyle by abusing resources in an unsustainable manner and usually by misappropriating them from other countries. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

      Err...no?

      That thought would never occur to me from this discussion.

      My thoughts at the time were that I was surprised that parts of EU back then were still a bit behind the times.

      Private bathrooms taking up too many resources? Wow....where did that come from?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  3. I wouldn't have either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When the guys share these hacks with the companies ahead of time, they tend to get sued or get their presentations cancelled by the vengeful corporations. They're better off not disclosing these things ahead of time.

    1. Re:I wouldn't have either by plover · · Score: 2

      Their presentations may or may not get suppressed, but this approach pretty much ensures he will get sued.

      Worse, in his paper he uses an example of framing a hotel employee for murder! While dramatizing the vulnerability is not uncommon amongst hackers looking to draw media attention to the seriousness of their claims, suggesting a plan for murder is a really, really poor choice. The consequences of this could be even higher than the civil penalties of a lawsuit.

      --
      John
    2. Re:I wouldn't have either by rvw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When the guys share these hacks with the companies ahead of time, they tend to get sued or get their presentations cancelled by the vengeful corporations. They're better off not disclosing these things ahead of time.

      Plus in this case, what could Onity have done? They cannot create an update that is automatically downloaded and installed over the next month onto those locks, like with Windows or Flash. If they knew about this before, and had a proper fix for it, then they would have to communicate it to thousands of hotels, and that would result in disclosure as well.

    3. Re:I wouldn't have either by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Funny

      That is, unless he is planning to use the Basic Instinct Defense "What, do you think I am stupid enough to publish details of how a murder could be committed, by anyone, using these devices, and then do it myself?"

      Though, if he tries it, I hope he remembers, the short white dress and no underwear is key to making it work.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    4. Re:I wouldn't have either by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Onity sells fake security. They are the ones who should be sued by their thousands of clients. If you sell security, you have to be good at it.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    5. Re:I wouldn't have either by Mathinker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > suggesting a plan for murder is a really, really poor choice

      From the website explanation:

      Such circumstantial evidence, placing a staff member in the room at the time of death, could be damning in a murder trial, and at least would make that staff member a prime suspect. While other factors (e.g. closed circuit cameras, eyewitnesses, etc) could be used to support the staff member's case, there's no way we can know whether or not the audit report is false.

      Unless you believe that Brocious can somehow know the details of every murder trial currently going on anywhere in the world at this time, this fact is actually an excellent defense for justifying immediate disclosure.

      And anyway, if your interesting legal theory was correct, the broadcast of every Columbo episode, for example, would have exposed {N,A}BC to criminal charges or civil liability. Not likely.

    6. Re:I wouldn't have either by nolife · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they truely can not fix these locks without physically replacing them, I can garentee any prior contact with them about this bug would have resulted in every legal and possible assumed legal resposnse they could think of to prevent him from disclosing the information.
      The end result would be no disclosure and everyone that stays in one of these hotel rooms is at risk. At least if the information is public, people can take action to protect themselves and their stuff by using the deadbolt/latch, the safe, taking their shit with them, leaving in their trunk or at the place they are working if this is a business trip.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    7. Re:I wouldn't have either by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Their presentations may or may not get suppressed, but this approach pretty much ensures he will get sued.

      Why would he get sued?

      He didn't do anything libelous or slanderous....just told the truth about something he discovered.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:I wouldn't have either by plover · · Score: 1

      Very good point!

      But that won't stop an attorney hell-bent on suing him into oblivion from bringing it up in court negatively as well: "The defendant literally told people how to use his device to get away with murder! This is further evidence that he was being malicious towards the plaintiff in his disclosure, which is why you must find in favor of my client."

      --
      John
    9. Re:I wouldn't have either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know how you feel when your computer-illiterate relatives try to talk to you about programming or hacking? That's how lawyers feel when Slashdotters try to talk about law.

    10. Re:I wouldn't have either by houghi · · Score: 1

      But they ARE good at selling fake security.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    11. Re:I wouldn't have either by plover · · Score: 1

      I've never testified in front of a jury in a courtroom before, but I have heard and answered all kinds of stupid questions when giving depositions. Some are so ludicrous you have to wonder if the guy asking them is a real lawyer. So don't try to tell me what kinds of nonsense I will or won't hear coming from a lawyer - they have no problem spouting it.

      --
      John
    12. Re:I wouldn't have either by cusco · · Score: 1

      It's called a SLAPP (strategic lawsuit against public participation) suit, and it's a common mega-corp technique against activists of all types. Drag the people into court for months at a time, schedule events at the most inconvenient times possible, require depositions from all and sundry to inconvenience the defendants employer and intimates, try to change venue to an inconvenient location, and bankrupting them if possible. The suit doesn't need to have any merit at all to be filed, and even if the mega-corp loses and has to pay court costs the defendant is out a lot of time and money.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:I wouldn't have either by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I've never testified in front of a jury in a courtroom before, but I have heard and answered all kinds of stupid questions when giving depositions. Some are so ludicrous you have to wonder if the guy asking them is a real lawyer. So don't try to tell me what kinds of nonsense I will or won't hear coming from a lawyer - they have no problem spouting it.

      Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's nonsense.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  4. Bad news for you maybe by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Funny

    Great news for the budget-minded vacationer looking for a hotel bargain.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Bad news for you maybe by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      Or just someone looking to hide a few bodies

      http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/bodybed.asp

    2. Re:Bad news for you maybe by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Or just someone looking to hide a few bodies

      http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/bodybed.asp

      I wish I hadn't read that. You see, the hotel room we just stayed in last week had a pretty bad smell in the bedroom portion...

  5. Stolen by Sulphur · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Someone stole my first post. It was locked in a hotel room.

    1. Re:Stolen by Technician · · Score: 0

      I stole your first post. It was left in my hotel room.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  6. Room Safe = Safe Room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No problem. When an arduino wielding intruder bursts in just take shelter in the programmable-code safe bolted to the closet floor. No way anyone could ever figure out how to reverse engineer the lock on that puppy.

  7. Reliable? by Slippery_Hank · · Score: 4, Informative

    From TFA: He tested this hack on three randomly choosen hotel room doors, failed to open any. Had to stop to reprogram the device, and then managed to open one of the doors. I'll stick to being worried about corrupt security guards.

    1. Re:Reliable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From TFA: He tested this hack on three randomly choosen hotel room doors, failed to open any. Had to stop to reprogram the device, and then managed to open one of the doors. I'll stick to being worried about corrupt security guards.

      Proof of Concept != Final Version

    2. Re:Reliable? by garcia · · Score: 1

      I'll stick to being worried about corrupt security guards.

      Or, as in my case on two different occasions, asking the cleaning personnel to open my door because I got locked out while going to get ice.

      But seriously, who leaves shit in their rooms at hotels anyway? The hotel safes can be opened with 0000 or 9999 most often and with staff members making minimum wage, the chance of theft is high.

      When I'm traveling, all of my items of any real value come with me (laptop, phone, wallet, money, prescriptions) and if they want to steal my shitty clothing and toiletries, so be it.

    3. Re:Reliable? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      When I'm traveling, all of my items of any real value come with me (laptop, phone, wallet, money, prescriptions) and if they want to steal my shitty clothing and toiletries, so be it.

      And when you are at Disney World, the pool, the fitness center or the bar, how does lugging that laptop around go?

    4. Re:Reliable? by garcia · · Score: 1

      I never had a single problem with it (and I did exactly all of those things when I was at WDW for a conference in April).

    5. Re:Reliable? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Good for you, when I travel for work my 2 items of any real value are my clothes and my work product.

      I lug a copy of work product with me (on a 2.5 inch hard drive), and leave one at the room.

      When I'm away for weeks at a time, I tend to have a few suits, these combined definitely are worth more than my laptop. And I can't exactly lug them around.

      the laptop is easily replaceable, and the software install while busy would suck, but is only a few hours.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    6. Re:Reliable? by gwolf · · Score: 2

      My experience in the last hotel where I stayed:

      Got out of the pool, wrapped in a towel, went to the desk.
      – Oh, ma'am, I'm sorry, I guess I forgot my key in the room. Can somebody open the room for me? It's 104
      – Don't worry, click-click-swipe. Here is a new key for you. Cheers!

      How hard is this system to abuse?

    7. Re:Reliable? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      The best place to keep valuables when staying somewhere like that is locked in the trunk of your car. If you flew and then took cabs rather than get a rental car, your situation is pretty hopeless.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    8. Re:Reliable? by nolife · · Score: 2

      When I travel, I leave my stuff out everywhere similar to what I do at home, throw loose bills and change on the table, laptop sitting out possible still plugged in and on. I average about 30 nights a year in a hotel room and I've never had a problem with anything mising that I've noticed. When my room is cleaned, all of my stuff is still in the same exact place or its moved into one neat pile instead of many scattered piles. It only takes one corrupt person though but its not like the one time you forget to grab your wallet or leave your smartphone out it is going to disappear.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    9. Re:Reliable? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I never had a single problem with it (and I did exactly all of those things when I was at WDW for a conference in April).

      I think the other poster was referring to vacations...

      You want to lug all that stuff around to say...a day at the beach...what happens when you want to go jump in the ocean...go bar hopping....hang by the swimming pool bar (or other bars in town trying to pick up women)...you're gonna be carting you tables, computers, cameras, guitar (yes, some of us have and take travel guitars on vacations)...etc.

      On a business trip, sure, you often don't carry that much around, but on a 1-2 week vacation, your subset of your belongings often becomes significant....and leaving stuff in the room is the only option really....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:Reliable? by AF_Cheddar_Head · · Score: 1

      I second this. An average of 90 days a year in hotels, often for extended stays. The room becomes my home and I treat it as such. I have never had anything stolen by the cleaning staff. Most of them probably that having a job is more valuable than the few dollars they can make from a little bit of theft.

      BTW always a good idea to leave the housekeeping staff a small tip to express your gratitude.

    11. Re:Reliable? by plover · · Score: 1

      Third. I only spend about a month per year in hotels, but I've never lost anything to the staff, and on every occasion I've accidentally left something behind, they have all always been great about returning it to me.

      And yes, a gratuity to the housekeeping staff is always a good idea.

      --
      John
    12. Re:Reliable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I suspected upon hearing this that he was trying to bitbang a protocol using the Arduino functions such as delaymicroseconds and digitalwrite and he was probably having to adjust these to account for inconsistencies caused perhaps between locks (where battery voltage may affect timing) but also the inherent timing problems caused by the braindead manner in which these "friendly" functions operate. Even worse, he is using the Arduino's Serial library which is even worse about causing timing and memory problems.

      Upon reading his code I found that assumption to be correct. If he ditched the Arduino library and wrote correct AVR code using ISR's and hardware timers to implement the communication protocol I think the reliability of the exploit would dramatically improve. Reading his analysis of the protocol I even think the two-wire interface could be used directly with a tiny bit of extra hardware. Also, the Arduino MEGA is unnecessary; a normal arduino or even a $2 ATTiny would do this job fine.

      I should mention that it's not his fault that the Arduino library is terrible code and that its essentially unusable for this kind of thing; they do sort of purport that is more capable than it is. I do however suggest that you adjust your thoughts on the reliability of his exploit.

    13. Re:Reliable? by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 1

      He said he had a bug that was causing him to lose like one bit in seven.
      He's pretty confident he can fix it and improve reliability.

      So, the inconsistency, he claims, is not so much a weakness of the method or due to any security at all in the device, but more his hardware.

      --
      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
    14. Re:Reliable? by garcia · · Score: 1

      When I said I was at a conference at WDW, I meant I went to WDW and took the stuff w/me. Again, I don't see the problem.

    15. Re:Reliable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am in hotels more than you.

      I *never* leave my toothbrush in the room, I carry it with me.

      If you think about it, you will be smart and do the same.

    16. Re:Reliable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also he doesn't mention that the battery and io port are on the inside of the hotel room door, not the outside. You'd have to rent a room to get access.

    17. Re:Reliable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, the only time I've ever had anything stolen form me, it was from the trunk of my car while parked in a hotel parking garage.

    18. Re:Reliable? by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      I'm on the road year round and have been for 36 years. I've never had anything stolen, but have had a few minor items thrown away by mistake.

      Break into my room when I'm not there and you'll score some clean clothes, some dirty clothes, and some personal care items. Break into my room when I'm there and you'll score a few pieces of lead.

    19. Re:Reliable? by cusco · · Score: 1

      My last work trip I wandered into the hotel just before midnight, told the desk clerk whom I had never met that I had lost my room key at the job site (true) and her only question was which room it was. Didn't even ask what name the room was rented under, much less for ID. I was appalled.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    20. Re:Reliable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're looking at this exactly backward. A less-than-perfect success rate on cracking open door locks is acceptable to many would-be crackers. A greater-than-zero success rate on cracking open YOUR door lock is NOT acceptable if you're a hotel patron.

      So he opened 1 out of 3 doors. Great, so he successfully opened at least one door that should have remained locked. Guess now you have to make sure you always test your hotel room door to make sure you got a room where the door won't simply open.

      Then again, he seems to think that every lock is crackable, but his device just isn't finely tuned enough to mount a successful attack 100% of the time on 100% of the doors. He says he's not going to try to finish the design, but he's making it public, so anyone can have a go at making the perfect door lock opener.

  8. A bit of hyperbole... by kaizendojo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When demonstrated for the reporter, the hack only worked on *one* out of *four* of the doors tested in a REAL hotel, and then only on the second attempt after Brocious fine tuned and tweaked his software. Also, this can be defeated by simply using any one of the mechanical locks on the door.

    The bottom line is that if you aren't using the mechanical bolt or slide lock when staying at *any* hotel, you were vulnerable way before this hack. Keep in mind that there are plenty of AUTHORIZED users of master card keys on the hotel staff.

    1. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by SkimTony · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When a hotel staffer uses a master key card, it's logged (the security system notes which key was used when). Presumably with this hack, that isn't necessary. Also, the ability to open the doors on 25% of hotel rooms is still a concern.

    2. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can get into 95% of hotel rooms (I'm familiar with Saflok) that are latched shut and deadbolted with nothing more than a simple tool (think coathanger & wire) to reach under the door and pull down the inside door handle; this will disengage the deadbolt. Saflok won't tell you this :) Security through obscurity.

    3. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The bottom line is that if you aren't using the mechanical bolt or slide lock when staying at *any* hotel, you were vulnerable way before this hack.

      That might work if you're *in* the room. What if you need to venture outside?

    4. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by camperdave · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with using the mechanical bolt or slide lock is that they must be operated from *INSIDE* the room. I don't know about others, but when I'm staying at a hotel it is because I am attending a conference or something, so most of the time I am not inside the room. So the deadbolt or chain lock does nothing. If a bad guy wanted in while someone was inside, all he would have to do is knock on the door and say "Hotel security. Open the door, please".

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So.....when you stay in a hotel, you STAY IN THE HOTEL, am I right? Or do you sometimes leave your room to do whatever business or tourism brought you away from home in the first place? The slide bolt you mention only protects you while you are in the room. What's to stop a nasty person with this keyhack from waiting until you're out, and then accessing your room to steal stuff / plug a keylogger dongle on your laptop / install a spycam in your shower?

      Posted AC for obvious reasons.

    6. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by alen · · Score: 1

      not only that but every hotel has cleaning people on every floor every day. there are cameras everywhere in common areas. a person loitering outside a door will not only be on camera but any maid can call it in to security.

      security is the whole system, not like every individual piece has to be 100% secure

      that's why stock iphones have never had a big security issue. iOS by itself is not 100% secure but combine it with the app store and the apple ecosystem and there has never been a big malware incident

    7. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      How do I use this slide lock when I leave my things in the room but I wish to leave?

      Should I hire someone to operate that for me?

    8. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by mblase · · Score: 1

      Also, this can be defeated by simply using any one of the mechanical locks on the door.

      ...which you can only employ if you're actually in the room, which thwarts most burglars anyway.

    9. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by alen · · Score: 1

      the only time to leave something valuable in the safe is jewelry when you go to the pool. otherwise you take your phone, wallet and other valuables with you

      unless you're a secret agent and need to lock up your top secret spy info. laptops are cheap and any secret data should be encrypted anyway or stored in da cloud

    10. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Does Onity offer centrally logged door units?

      99% of the shit I've worked with at hotels (from an installation POV) just checks that the mag card has a particular number in track 3. They're dumb as fuck.
      Putting the word "ADM" in track 2 unlocks most of the doors in many hotels. Sad but true fact.

    11. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      all he would have to do is knock on the door and say "Hotel security. Open the door, please".

      The hotel has a voice activated door? Cause otherwise I don't quite understand how claiming to be hotel security causes the door to open.

    12. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I travel for work a lot, and stay in chain hotels that use programmable key cards. I will take all my junk out to the customer's site during the day, then head back to the hotel, shower, change, then leave my work laptop and work phone charging in the room while I go out and find something to eat. I don't think this is particularly unusual behaviour.

      Laptops might be "cheap" in your world, but I know I wouldn't like to have one stolen. Besides, if someone has physical access, they could install a hardware keylogger (i'm sure small devices that fit inside the laptop exist) and then come back the next day to pick it up again. Same with sneaky webcams: Position one in the room to either get video of me watching shitty hotel porn to upload to sadlonelyhotelroomdudevoyeur.com, or video of me typing in my passwords. Return next day to collect the spy hardware and its data. To brush off having physical access to a supposedly secure physical space is absurd.

      Also, I don't like the idea of some creepy asshole rummaging through my stuff and masturbating into my used socks, thanks very much.

      Posted AC for obvious reasons.

    13. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Dan+Dankleton · · Score: 1

      Easy solution: Don't venture outside!

    14. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      iOS by itself is not 100% secure but combine it with the app store and the apple ecosystem and there has never been a big malware incident

      You mean other than iOS itself, right? :)

    15. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>Cause otherwise I don't quite understand how claiming to be hotel security causes the door to open.

      Because you can't read.
      If a bad guy wanted in while someone was inside, all he would have to do is knock on the door and say "Hotel security. Open the door, please". I had this happen to me one time except it was a cop. I refused to open the door, so the cop went across the aisle to the neighbor instead (the source of a marijuana smell).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    16. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Grundibular · · Score: 1

      What's to stop a nasty person with this keyhack from waiting until you're out, and then accessing your room to steal stuff

      or waiting for you to come back...

      --
      "Dance like nobody's watching" ... "Poo like nobody's watching"
    17. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not only that but every hotel has cleaning people on every floor every day. there are cameras everywhere in common areas. a person loitering outside a door will not only be on camera but any maid can call it in to security.

      security is the whole system, not like every individual piece has to be 100% secure

      So Cody should've dressed up as a maid during the demo?

    18. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      Because you can't read.

      Did you hear that loud "whoosh" noise?

      The point is that someone knocking on the door and saying "Hotel security. Open the door, please" only works when the person in the room is a complete moron.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    19. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think the point of this was to get the hotels in trouble, I think the point was to make lock manufacturers have to face higher standards.

    20. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      The bottom line is that if you aren't using the mechanical bolt or slide lock when staying at *any* hotel, you were vulnerable way before this hack.

      Kinda hard to use that mechanical bolt or slide lock when you leave the room to go to the beach or a meeting, etc......which likely would be the best time to come in and rob you, eh?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    21. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do what I do: travel light. It *is* possible to live for a few days out of *one* gym bag.

    22. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty easy to overpower a maid (they aren't ninjas you know) and take her master key card that unlocks all rooms. Done in less than 5 minutes.

    23. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3003923&cid=40767269

    24. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phew, at least all the other people then have to reconfigure their software since there's no way to pass those changes on to others.....

      yeah.

    25. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with using the mechanical bolt or slide lock is that they must be operated from *INSIDE* the room. I don't know about others, but when I'm staying at a hotel it is because I am attending a conference or something, so most of the time I am not inside the room. So the deadbolt or chain lock does nothing.

      If only there were some type of device which let you operate the deadbolt from outside the room. It wouldn't have to be big. Something about the size of a small nail file, and keyed so only it could turn the tumblers in the lock...

    26. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were done in less than five minutes I'm not sure whether the maid actually thought you were overpowering. Probably just gave you the card in sympathy.

    27. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a peephole in your door. Use it.

      In fact, check it as soon as you enter your room, to make sure that someone hasn't turned it around to spy on you. Unless you're an attractive woman, in which case, please leave it that way.

      The mechanical locks are also specifically designed so that you can open the door a few inches and get a look at the person outside before you open the door and let them in.

    28. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by EricScott · · Score: 1

      You must be new here.

      We don't venture outside.

    29. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Because you can't read.

      Did you hear that loud "whoosh" noise? The point is that someone knocking on the door and saying "Hotel security. Open the door, please" only works when the person in the room is a complete moron.

      I suppose you're one of those people who won't leave their rooms when a fire alarm goes off in case it's a trap?

      Paranoia is funny and everything, but unless you're a spy or criminal it's an unhealthy way of living your life.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    30. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Besides, if someone has physical access, they could install a hardware keylogger (i'm sure small devices that fit inside the laptop exist) and then come back the next day to pick it up again. Same with sneaky webcams: Position one in the room to either get video of me watching shitty hotel porn to upload to sadlonelyhotelroomdudevoyeur.com, or video of me typing in my passwords. Return next day to collect the spy hardware and its data. To brush off having physical access to a supposedly secure physical space is absurd.

      You're either a spy or a paranoid fruitbat. I wonder which is more likely?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    31. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      So Cody should've dressed up as a maid during the demo?

      As opposed to lurking around in his "I'm a fucking twat" T-shirt?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    32. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      I suppose you're one of those people who won't leave their rooms when a fire alarm goes off in case it's a trap? Paranoia is funny and everything, but unless you're a spy or criminal it's an unhealthy way of living your life.

      Do you do everything everyone tells you without a bit of consideration? Would you open your hotel room door for "hotel security" without even thinking about whether or not the demand is legitimate?

      I do not open any door immediately when I am not expecting someone. If "hotel security" knocks on my door they need to have ID, a good reason for me to open the door, and quite possibly verification from the front desk that security is indeed supposed to be at my room.

      If you believe taking a basic bit of precaution to ensure one's own safety is paranoia then you have far more problems than what you accuse me of. It sounds as though you are the other end of the spectrum and live with your head planted firmly in the sand.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    33. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That might work if you're *in* the room. What if you need to venture outside?

      If what you leave behind is sufficiently important, then don't rely on the bottom-tier security option that comes gratis with the room. You have a vast spectrum of options from using a hotel safe all the way to hiring a guard or taking everything with you.

      Claiming the lock on the door is insecure is like claiming the toilet paper is scratchy. It's there to do a basic job. If your shit is sensitive, find another solution.

    34. Re:A bit of hyperbole... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a bad guy wanted in while someone was inside, all he would have to do is knock on the door and say "Hotel security. Open the door, please".

      Saying "security" makes think about theft and malice. They'll get all jumpy when you go near their stuff. Use a pretense that lets you touch, move, and even remove their belongings.

      "Hotel maintenance. We have a sewage leak above this room."

  9. swedish supermodels beware by tekrat · · Score: 5, Funny

    Geeks now have the ability to get into your hotel room while changing into your bikini...

    But why would a geek be changing into your bikini?

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:swedish supermodels beware by Chas · · Score: 3, Funny

      Basically it's the perfect armor.

      Some 500 pound guy in a thong is so horrific that you simply can't look at it long enough to aim and shoot.

      That and the whole Cthulu-esque "I stared into madness and madness stared back" aspect.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    2. Re:swedish supermodels beware by rvw · · Score: 1

      Geeks now have the ability to get into your hotel room while changing into your bikini...

      But why would a geek be changing into your bikini?

      Hey! I don't have a bikini! Let's be clear about that!!!

      (And think of this: a geek who is changing into the bikini of another geek?!?! Or are we talking about two female geeks here?)

    3. Re:swedish supermodels beware by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Hey! I don't have a bikini! Let's be clear about that!!!

      You mean... those are tan lines?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:swedish supermodels beware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about that. That might cause some people to shoot and keep shooting... And the judge and jury might agree that it was not such an unreasonable thing to do given the circumstances...

  10. What happened to responsible disclosure? by nastav · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's easily and effectively argued that security through obscurity does no one any good, but responsible disclosure is still widely considered to be a good practice. Supposing a vendor is willing to fix their serious bugs, it really helps in preventing large scale attacks between the time of disclosure and reaction (by the vendor). If Onity had been willing to replace all it's locks over a short period of time (say, 6 months) at massive cost to itself - but nevertheless done it to protect it's long term reputation, it makes a lot of sense to give Onity that opportunity without outing the flaw. It's unlikely that such a large-scale replacement of locks would have been pursued, but giving Onity an opportunity to consider that option would have been responsible. It helps Onity, but it also helps customers of Onity (like Hotels who might have chosen to replace their locks, or individuals who might ask questions before going to a particular hotel). Now everybody knows it can be done, and many will try. Sure, an NSA intern could have figured it out, but the fact remains that it was not being massively exploited for large-scale robberies, for e.g.. Targeted exploits are bad - no doubt - and I'm sure some of this was already going on, but there isn't much doubt that the sum total of targeted exploits does less bad than what might happen now - namely large scale exploits. I suppose I'm arguing that security-through-obscurity does work - but in a targeted and limited fashion - as to provide cover for short durations when real security is pursued. It may not work, but it's worth a try - and by going public before giving Onity a chance to pursue a 'fix', this researcher has, in my books, acted against public good.

    --
    -- obligatory (but true) caveat: my comments my own, and don't reflect my employer or colleagues' positions.
    1. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by epine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Onity had been willing to replace all it's locks over a short period of time (say, 6 months) at massive cost to itself - but nevertheless done it to protect it's long term reputation, it makes a lot of sense to give Onity that opportunity without outing the flaw.

      Responsible disclosure is a fair response to a responsible failure. Few of these that make the news are responsible failures. Chisellers dressed up in security theatre profiting from their faux contrivances while playing this stupid game of harassing the bearer of bad news, as if the bearer of bad news is an indentured, unpaid employee.

      I understand the source of this faux reverence for charlatans much better after reading God is not Great. Scientology was a crock from day one, but now that so many gentle and naive souls have absorbed this crockery and imbued it with deep personal meaning, those of us who are deeply offended by the shitbag Hubbard are supposed to subside into polite silence. I asked myself after reading Hitchens: Why do I sit around keeping a respectfully stiff upper lip about xemufascism? To hell with that.

      Banks should not be bailed out of bad loans, and security professionals should not be bailed out for chrome-plating obscurity. When the mistake is subtle enough to make a patent examiner's head explode, I'm all for responsible disclosure. Either pass the bar, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    2. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Lithdren · · Score: 1

      I'm fine with this point of view if it can be assured the person going to the company first wont then get sued for what they've exposed as a flaw.

      The way things are now, you're more likely to get sued and shut up by a court order before you could tell anyone else. Atleast this way, the public is aware of the issue before they get sued. If anything, this assures the public is served important information and does more for public good then going to the company directly.

      I'm not saying this company would act this way, but since there's nothing protecting you there's no way to know beforehand. So might as well go with the lesser of two evils, rather than hoping for the best.

    3. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

      He didn't reveal the actual hack, he only demonstrated that one exists.

      Further, there are already several instances of people being sued into silence after responsible disclosure.

      Further the problem can not be fixed, and replacement of all locks world wide would be so experience and time consuming that it would never be done in response to responsible disclosure.

      The probable outcome here is that the lock maker buys more insurance and sends a memo to customers offering a discount on new and improved locks. Which will be ignored by virtually all hotels.

      Responsible disclosure would serve no purpose in this instance.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not a vulnerability, this is intentional insecure design. Onity deserves to be punished as hard as possible for defrauding its customers. I think that in this case releasing early was the most responsible thing to do.

    5. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should I give you [the company responsible] notice of my work. You aren't paying me to provide you with security consultation. I have not obligation to provide you with that information.

      -Sparksis

    6. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by plover · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In this case he took it upon himself to decide that "there is no possible fix therefore responsible disclosure won't help." But we don't know for sure that the company can't fix the problem with some kind of software update - that's simply his claim. If there is a way to update the EEPROM, any way at all, then a software update could have fixed the problem. Sure, it would be a breaking change to the existing card key systems, but it might not entail a hardware fix to millions of hotel room doors. This guy never gave them that chance.

      Notification would have enabled the company to create an update plan, to order a million new circuit boards, to redesign the protocols, to schedule repair crews, to do whatever it took to fix the problem, and to have all that stuff prepared before his disclosure. No matter who they are and how badly they want to fix the problem, this is a year long process at least. Now, during that entire year, bad guys with Arduinos will have full access to unoccupied hotel rooms.

      And he's going to get sued into the next millennium. Not only are the plaintiffs going to use arguments like the above, but they're also going to drag his business dealings into it. They're going to make claims like "he's disgruntled because his business venture failed, and he did this out of spiteful retaliation." They're going to throw so much trash at him that I'm not sure even Johnny Cochran would have been able to get him out of trouble.

      --
      John
    7. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      The hacker has announced that the complete hack will be revealed, source code and all, on his web site soon.

    8. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Hatta · · Score: 2

      responsible disclosure is still widely considered to be a good practice.

      Responsible disclosure will inform those vulnerable as soon as possible, so they can take steps to mitigate. There's nothing responsible about keeping a security flaw secret.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      responsible disclosure is still widely considered to be a good practice.

      As another poster has mentioned, responsible disclosure has been punished in the past, by the original disclosee using the courts to prevent the later presentation.

      When the courts did not punish these parties for

      1. abusing the court system to prevent presentations
      2. shooting messengers
      3. undermining responsible disclosure

      the court system effectively took an anti-responsible-disclosure position. This guy is just going along with the government's opinion that responsible disclosure is bad idea and force should be used to discourage people from doing it, because it's better to surprise an industry and userbase with a sudden security threat. As mentioned, a very credible and lvikely alternative is that he could have been sued by the vendor for telling them about the problem prior to the presentation.

      And of course, there's the other point, which is that most people who would take advantage of this hole, probably already knew about it.

      Here's how it can be fixed. Some people still do still use responsible disclosure. It's not dead; it's just risky and didn't happen in this case. I want to see the Right Thing happen when a vendor mis-handles it. If they sue the bad-news-bearer or sue to prevent a presentation, and the court responds with serious sanctions, so that the suing company's equity holders lose all their equity (and maybe some personal assets as well) as a direct result of their legal aggression, then responsible disclosure will become a viable practice.

      Telling your lawyer to write a nasty letter, needs to become a risky thing to do, only done when someone is sure they're right. People who do that in bad faith, knowing they will cause expense or inconvenience for the innocent party that the nasty letter is aimed at, need to lose. We need to enact policies which cause them to lose. And you can't have responsible disclosure be a widely-used strategy, without these new policies.

    10. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's there now. linked from the first article in the summary. Full paper, Arduino assembly instructions, and code.

    11. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's evil.

    12. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by plover · · Score: 1

      That's evil.

      That's a lawsuit. They're pretty much indistinguishable.

      --
      John
    13. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by cusco · · Score: 1

      They not only need to lose, they need to be penalized according to their wealth. A company like Coca Cola or Exxon could take me to court in the full knowledge that they would lose, but with the simple objective of bankrupting me with legal fees and lost time from work. Even if they lose they win.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    14. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      He wasn't acting for the public good, he was acting for the gratification of his own ego.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    15. Re:What happened to responsible disclosure? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And he's going to get sued into the next millennium. Not only are the plaintiffs going to use arguments like the above, but they're also going to drag his business dealings into it. They're going to make claims like "he's disgruntled because his business venture failed, and he did this out of spiteful retaliation." They're going to throw so much trash at him that I'm not sure even Johnny Cochran would have been able to get him out of trouble.

      You're saying that almost like it's a bad thing.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  11. Stop physical access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just like paranoid IT departments physically blocking USB ports, you can fill that DC port with glue if you're a concerned guest. Not a popular move with the hotel though, I'm sure.

    1. Re:Stop physical access by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Or a guest who wants to get back into their room...

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:Stop physical access by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Filling the port with glue will not prevent the hotel guest's card from working. We're talking about a maintenance port on the underside of the lock, not the keycard port.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:Stop physical access by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Ahh.

      I read DC port as door card port.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    4. Re:Stop physical access by jimicus · · Score: 1

      No, but it will prevent the hotel from ever reprogramming the lock - or for that matter getting in when the batteries fail.

    5. Re:Stop physical access by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      About which the guest doesn't give a shit.

  12. I'm sure the government has easier ways by AC-x · · Score: 1

    If true it's a pretty poor show by Onity, but I'm sure governments have had plenty of success simply forcing, tricking or bribing the hotel desk or cleaning staff into opening the rooms for them. I'm pretty sure that all the US government would have to do is turn up with a warrant and be given access to any room they like regardless of the type of lock used.

    1. Re:I'm sure the government has easier ways by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Silly Reader, warrants are so 20th century. These days, they just show a letter, that you can't discuss with anyone, citing a "secret" law. Yes, it's unconstitutional, but if you're a $12/hour clerk, and the guy with the gun is asking, are you going to make a fuss?

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    2. Re:I'm sure the government has easier ways by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that all the US government would have to do is turn up with a warrant and be given access to any room they like regardless of the type of lock used.

      With a warrant, you can do practically anything, because a judge has signed off on it.

      It's what they can do without warrants that scares me.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:I'm sure the government has easier ways by SkimTony · · Score: 1

      The key is silent access, as another poster mentioned. If hotel staff use the master key-card, that's logged to the security system. If police show up with a warrant, that warrant is part of the public record (in most cases) and shows up in the police logs. In any of those cases, there's a way to know about the breach nearly as soon as it happened. With this crack, there's no record that the security system was defeated, which makes recovery even more difficult. Consider the following:
                a) Something was taken from your hotel room. You're insured (or the hotel is). If there were physical or digital evidence of a break-in, the insurance paperwork is probably a lot simpler.
                b) Someone is being tricky. They decide to use your room to store some drugs (for example). Signs of forced entry? You have a case. No sign of any entry besides yours? You're going to prison.

    4. Re:I'm sure the government has easier ways by camperdave · · Score: 1

      I never understood the warrant/warrantless issue. Could they not just hire someone to become a judge for the purpose of rubberstamping warrants?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:I'm sure the government has easier ways by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Searches without warrants or probable cause will taint all the evidence obtained through the search or any information obtained from the illegal search. Such evidence will easily be suppressed during any criminal trial. If any law enforcement official does such a search is an idiot because they can't use any of what they find at criminal trial nor can they use anything they learn to find new information... At least in the USA.

      You should be more concerned about theft or perhaps the odd private investigator investigating some civil matter, or in the rare instance of espionage activity (state sponsored or industrial). In these cases you should already know what the risks are and be taking the proper security steps. If not, shame on you.

      I suppose you could put on your tin-foil hat and start talking about black choppers or being framed for a crime.....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    6. Re:I'm sure the government has easier ways by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Yep, they could hire a judge to rubber stamp warrants. However, they likely wouldn't be a judge or a lawyer for long (at least in the US).

      Most local jurisdictions elect their judges but some of the more populated areas have to hire some in the process. Even if there is not a requirement for the judge to be a bar approved lawyer, the state bar- read state supreme court in most cases, will have jurisdiction over them and can remove them from office or remove the court's ability to hear legal matters if they abuse their position.

      A warrant provides a paper trail which is important. In the US, we have what some refer to as fruit of the poisonous tree in which any ill gained evidence cannot be used against someone. If a judge rubber stamps a warrant that should not have been legitimately granted, any evidence gained from the warrant, or even evidence they were lead to because of the faulty warrant, can be bared from being used in the prosecution.

      The constitutional requirement for a warrant stems back from a time when the then government or police officials (whether government or some company's) could search you without cause at any time or place and find anything deemed to be violating the law and lock you up over it. The framers said, not any more unless there is direct probable cause. you will have to contact a third party, create this paper trail, and only search people when it is absolutely justified.

  13. Auditing by nastav · · Score: 4, Insightful

    All locks can be defeated with enough effort. The goal often is make it obvious that a lock was defeated - by leaving an electronic trail or physical one (broken door for e.g.). Akin silent data-loss, silent compromise of a lock is much much worse.

    --
    -- obligatory (but true) caveat: my comments my own, and don't reflect my employer or colleagues' positions.
  14. Wrong by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every single lock will not have to be changed. There are several ways to fix this without replacing the entire lock. Fill the hole. Cover the whole with an exterior lock. Put a more secure circuit between the exterior plug and the lock's main board. That more secure circuit only need to handle NOT letting you read the memory. Given that the article is completely wrong about having to change the locks, I would question whether there really isn't a way to fix it via firmware. Either way though, the fix does not require a new lock, and it is a task that the hotel's regular handyman can perform.

    1. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to take a look at the paper or presentation. The crypto used by these locks is also a problem.

    2. Re:Wrong by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      Chances are that retrofitting the existing lock will cost more than replacing it.

    3. Re:Wrong by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Every single lock will not have to be changed. There are several ways to fix this without replacing the entire lock. Fill the hole.

      And you can't recharge the battery any more - so sooner or later your lock is going to be out of service.

      Cover the whole with an exterior lock.

      Probably impossible as the current casing has not been designed for that; and anyway they all will end up with a single physical key: copy that and you're good. And anyway this requires a physical modification to the lock, likely the whole outer casing, not much less work than replacing the whole lock.

      Put a more secure circuit between the exterior plug and the lock's main board. That more secure circuit only need to handle NOT letting you read the memory.

      That is equivalent to changing out the main board of the lock. Which is probably more practical: it is not likely this lock has any space inside to install an extra board inside. Besides considering how modern devices are designed, replacing the lock is probably easier to do than replacing or adding a circuit board. Which is definitely not something your run-of-the-mill handyman can do.

    4. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are several ways to fix this without replacing the entire lock. Fill the hole.

      Sigh..

      The 'hole' is used for charging the lock's battery.

    5. Re:Wrong by pepty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every single lock will not have to be changed. There are several ways to fix this without replacing the entire lock. Fill the hole. Cover the whole with an exterior lock.

      That port is used to recharge the battery in the lock.

      Put a more secure circuit between the exterior plug and the lock's main board. That more secure circuit only need to handle NOT letting you read the memory. Given that the article is completely wrong about having to change the locks, I would question whether there really isn't a way to fix it via firmware. Either way though, the fix does not require a new lock, and it is a task that the hotel's regular handyman can perform.

      The board itself is probably cheap, removing the port from the board and soldering in a new daughter board/port would be expensive. I don't see any advantage to that over replacing the whole board, which is what the article ("New circuitboards will have to be installed in every affected lock,") actually suggests.

      Given that the article is completely wrong about having to change the locks, I would question whether there really isn't a way to fix it via firmware.

      Brocious's full time job was to reverse engineer Onity's locks and front desk systems for a startup; he probably knows whether the lock has upgradable firmware.

    6. Re:Wrong by locketine · · Score: 1

      Cryptography is a firmware thing, isn't it?

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
    7. Re:Wrong by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Every single lock will not have to be changed. There are several ways to fix this without replacing the entire lock. Fill the hole. Cover the whole with an exterior lock. Put a more secure circuit between the exterior plug and the lock's main board. That more secure circuit only need to handle NOT letting you read the memory. Given that the article is completely wrong about having to change the locks, I would question whether there really isn't a way to fix it via firmware. Either way though, the fix does not require a new lock, and it is a task that the hotel's regular handyman can perform.

      Fill the hole: No. Read the article. The hole is needed and used routinely to charge the battery and reprogram.
      Cover the hole with an exterior lock: So this is your plan to avoid changing out the lock? Add yet another lock on top? And how secure is that lock?
      Add a circuit ahead of the main board: Where? There is no room for that. You would have to replace the entire main board.
      Firmware fix: Perhaps possible, but these are very old designs using very limited microcontrollers. And you would still have to replace every reprogramming device in the field to get around this because your solution would also prevent reprogramming the lock.

      So, NO, the article is not completely wrong. Your post is pretty close to completely wrong.
      By the time you do any of the modifications you suggest, it would be cheaper to change the lock.

      And none of those changes could be accomplished by the handyman. At best, they might be able to change out the lock. Most of those guys know how to swing a wrench and a toilet plunger. They are not very good at board level soldering. Even worse at changing microprocessors inside a lock chassis designed specifically to be tamper resistant.

      Best case is that they can replace the entire circuit board using cheaper more modern ICs in the same amount of space. But even that is likely to more expensive to than just replacing every single lock.

      In actuality, This will never be done, until the next hotel remodel. Additional theft insurance, maybe purchased by the manufacturer, will be by far the cheapest alternative.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    8. Re:Wrong by icebike · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      Seriously, I can't imagine how GP was moderated insightful.

      Did the moderators all skip breakfast this morning?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    9. Re:Wrong by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      An average handyman can drill two holes in the metal plate. A snap in plug that attaches to the port and passes power through so that the lock can be charged, but data cannot pass And snaps into the two holes drilled by the handyman would allow charging but require breaking the lock to pass data. The point isn't to make the lock unbreakable. No lock is or ever will be. The point is to prevent crimes of opportunity and hopefully leave an indication if someone has broken in.

      It is true that these locks will likely not be replaced until a remodel because the rooms are so insecure anyway that this hack doesn't put them at any more significant of a risk than they previously were. Either way though, a physical fix to the lock is trivial and cheap.

    10. Re:Wrong by icebike · · Score: 1

      No, it is neither trivial nor cheap.

      You still have to provide for re-programming all the locks, which means your putative bolt-over (something hand waived into existence, manufactured in bulk, shipped to all customers, installed by locksmiths) has to be removable, which means a pocket screwdriver defeats it.

      Look at these locks: http://img.archiexpo.com/images_ae/press-g/onity-announces-new-ht-rfid-locking-solution-P172014.jpg

      Port is located on the bottom. You can barely see it sticking out). Your bolt-over would have to be drilled into the bottom of the assembly, or to the door itself. But it still has to be removable, because these things all get reprogrammed fairly frequently (like after any alleged break-in or change in management, or upon a schedule).

      That means screws for removal. Now you've added screws to a lock designed not to have any screws visible.

      Installed by handymen? Please.
      What hotel is going to take THAT risk. You would hire this work done by licensed and bonded locksmiths. Nobody would accept the liability of having their "handyman" do this. You can replace the entire lock in the same time it would take to mount your bolt-over.

      Its easy for a tinkerer to imagine a quick and dirty solution that might work for a flea-bag 20 room hotel on the outskirts of nowhere. It won't fly when there are 300 rooms or 3000 rooms, in a venue with a reputation to uphold.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    11. Re:Wrong by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >The 'hole' is used for charging the lock's battery.

      No. the hole enables charging of the lock's battery. It is typically not used as such.

      No one actually stands there with a charger all day. Some one goes around with a screwdriver changing the batteries. Practically minded hotels use primary cells because they last longer so don't need changing so often.

      Whatever the quick fix solution is, it probably involves making it difficult to access the hole.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    12. Re:Wrong by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The bolt over solution can certainly be removed. The solution doesn't have to be irremovable. It just needs to break when removed. We see a similar solution with PG&E power meters. Anyone can snip the wire that locks the meter. It just leaves evidence that it has been tampered with. You were not under the notion that the locks ever had a chance of keeping someone out of the room if they didn't care about it showing you broke in did you?

      It might take just as long to replace the lock, but, while I have not priced those locks specifically, I think it is safe to assume they are more expensive than the cost of a home unit. Thus you are looking at hardware cost difference for a 300 room hotel of somewhere around $100k (or more) vs $1k. Sure some might take your solution, but I have stayed in enough hotels to know that "doing a functional job" is chosen over "doing it right" very frequently.

    13. Re:Wrong by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Cover the hole with a tamper evident easily breached sticker of some sort. I don't really care about the details but I'm sure you can find something cheap that is easy to apply and shows evidence of tampering.

      Sure someone can still open the door, but they can also kick the door in or more likely steal a card from a cleaner or tell the desk they lost their key and are in room X.

  15. Image by firewrought · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The hacker has (in his picture for the Forbes article) unkempt hair and a T-shirt that says "It's Fun To Use Learning For Evil!". I realize Black Hat has this whole counterculture thing going guys, but would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability? Geez... this guy looks like a cliche movie hacker lackey.

    You know that your intentions are honorable, that you wouldn't (for instance) rob a hotel room, and that maybe you are part of the process by which society gets stronger over the long run, but the audience of Forbes is predisposed to see you as a shady menace (or cost multiplier). And the audience of Forbes has more real influence to pass laws that restrict or limit access to your favorite toys (prior examples being some telephony tools, radio electronics, lockpicks, encryption software, etc.).

    It sounds silly, but a clean shave and a button-down is how you say "I'm one of the good guys" to this crowd (or the general public, actually).

    --
    -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    1. Re:Image by slashmojo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability?

      Like a banker? ;)

    2. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      How is your lawn coming along granddad?

    3. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being that the "proper" people determine "laws" and the "counter culture" folks are the people getting things done, I generally try to appeal to: neither.

      (I feel sorry for you if you think that someone sitting in a congressional seat in your "wonderful" country holds any real power. It's a pretty good facade they've pulled over that entire culture's eyes!)

      "Good for economic policy" and "what other people want to hear" are no ways to live your life. If you so choose to follow in the footsteps of the bat-shit-insane: be my guest. Don't try and convince others they should follow you though.

    4. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite. If you choose to present this information looking like one of the suits, they'll subconsciously think you're one of them and assume the answer is "pay him off to sweep the problem under the rug (after a few months of meetings, of course), it's cheaper than fixing things".

      Looking like that, the message is more accurately "get to work, since the next one might not go public like this, kthnxbye".

    5. Re:Image by Hatta · · Score: 1

      would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability?

      Would it kill you to judge people based on their acts and not their appearances?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:Image by icebike · · Score: 1

      would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability?

      Would it kill you to judge people based on their acts and not their appearances?

      Appearance IS AN ACT.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    7. Re:Image by CaptainLard · · Score: 2

      Like a banker? ;)

      Exactly! Better evidence to prove GP's point does not exist. Just look respectable and society at large won't punish you for losing trillions to enriching yourself. If we all started showering regularly we could own this town!

    8. Re:Image by firewrought · · Score: 1

      would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability?

      Would it kill you to judge people based on their acts and not their appearances?

      Thanks for the personnel challenge, but it's not about the impressions I'm forming. It's about the 25 million unique monthly visitors to Forbes.com and how--like it or not--appearances will affect their interpretation of this man's activities. Do you want to turn people off needlessly, or do you want to leave the best impression on as many people as possible? Don't leave "money on the table" by needlessly dressing shabby.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    9. Re:Image by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you want to turn people off needlessly

      If those people are such sorry excuses for human beings as to judge someone based on the clothes they wear, they can fuck right off. There is nothing inherently respectable about wearing slacks, and quite a lot inherently disrespectable about judging people based on appearances. It's just another manifestation of the base tribal instincts that are responsible for racism, and it's not a bit nicer.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Image by camperdave · · Score: 1

      He didn't say congress. He said readers of Forbes (ie business owners, people with money and influence).

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    11. Re:Image by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      The hacker has (in his picture for the Forbes article) unkempt hair and a T-shirt that says "It's Fun To Use Learning For Evil!". I realize Black Hat has this whole counterculture thing going guys, but would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability? Geez... this guy looks like a cliche movie hacker lackey.

      He's a hacker, at a hacking conference, doing something that happened to be of interest to Forbes.

      It sounds silly, but a clean shave and a button-down is how you say "I'm one of the good guys" to this crowd

      What part of "Black Hat" isn't obvious? He isn't, and he isn't trying to be "one of the good guys".

      This isn't some carefully groomed spokesperson we're talking about, this is the guy who managed to open hotel doors without a key, and told everyone how you do it.

      I suspect if Forbes had said "hey, mind shaving, getting a haircut, and changing your t-shirt", he'd have told them to go straight to hell.

      Because he isn't marketing himself to the Forbes demographic, or the general public. I'm not even sure why you think he should be.

      You run stories about geeks doing sketchy things, and you might get pictures of sketchy looking geeks.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hacker has (in his picture for the Forbes article) unkempt hair and a T-shirt that says "It's Fun To Use Learning For Evil!". I realize Black Hat has this whole counterculture thing going guys, but would it kill you to put on the veneer of respectability? Geez... this guy looks like a cliche movie hacker lackey.

      He sure does look like he came straight out of central casting.

    13. Re:Image by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Would it kill you to judge people based on their acts and not their appearances?

      Sorry, but that is innate human behavior...we're visual beings, and one of the first things you use to judge any situation...is what you see, and you use your life experience, etc...to evaluate the situation.

      Kinda like...if you're walking down a street...you are coming upon a bunch of kids dressed as thugs, backwards hats, lots of tatoos, pants hanging down to their asses....do you get a bit nervous for your saftely?

      Same street....same number of kids, but this time, all with short hair, nice suits and ties.....are you nervous like before or do you even give these kids a second glance?

      We are creatures of perception. First impressions ARE important and are lasting. Sure, we build upon those first impressions with time, but right off to bat....first impressions matter.

      This is a VERY important lesson everyone should learn...it will server to help you in most any dealing you have with other people...from business, to picking up women...etc.

      Appearances matter....especially at first meeting/contact.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    14. Re:Image by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but that is innate human behavior...we're visual beings, and one of the first things you use to judge any situation...is what you see, and you use your life experience, etc...to evaluate the situation.

      And then decent human beings remember not to act like animals and adjust their thoughts appropriately.

      Kinda like...if you're walking down a street...you are coming upon a bunch of kids dressed as thugs, backwards hats, lots of tatoos, pants hanging down to their asses....do you get a bit nervous for your saftely?

      Same street....same number of kids, but this time, all with short hair, nice suits and ties.....are you nervous like before or do you even give these kids a second glance?

      Chances are the kids in suits who work for powerful corporations have victimized far more people than some hoods on a street corner. This is exactly why it's so harmful to judge people based on appearances.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    15. Re:Image by firewrought · · Score: 1

      He's a hacker, at a hacking conference, doing something that happened to be of interest to Forbes.

      True... and that's probably why's he dressed the way he is. Not because he's some radical free spirit or "bad boy", but because he wants fellow hackers to think he is.

      Because he isn't marketing himself to the Forbes demographic, or the general public. I'm not even sure why you think he should be.

      I think if hackers inspected their own values, etc., they would realize how fundamental the "right to tinker" is to who they are. With cyberwarfare and SCADA scares in the news, it would be a good idea if hackers (by whom I mean "people who like to find security holes" not the people who like to exploit them) got some image help (because sooner or later legislation is going to take the fun out of everything). Gun owners have done this... watch them and you'll see an emphasize on safety, a studious disposition, the heaviness of gun owner responsibility, and even a dash of family/patriotism/god in the mix. (But when the camera's not rolling, they're screaming F***-YEAH!! as they squeeze of a practice round freestyle.)

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    16. Re:Image by Translation+Error · · Score: 2

      Obviously, he wants to play himself when the movie is made.

      --
      When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
    17. Re:Image by firewrought · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but that is innate human behavior...we're visual beings, and one of the first things you use to judge any situation...is what you see, and you use your life experience, etc...to evaluate the situation.

      Very true. We all judge books by their covers and it takes conscious, deliberate effort not to do so. If you think you're above such tendencies, then you don't know yourself very well.

      The other aspect that people seem to miss is that clothing is a choice, and people consciously use clothing to signal who they are. Nobody's born in a tux, nobody spontaneously grows a T-shirt with a snarky slogan on it when they wake up. People pick their clothing choices from the cultural repertoire that's available to them. So if you want to signal respectability, you wear nicer clothes. If you want to signal conformance to a counterculture (as this hacker probably does), you wear what he's wearing. To some extent, people are justified in judging you based on what you wear because they know you had a choice in the matter.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    18. Re:Image by johnb10001 · · Score: 1

      I would trust this guy a lot more than any Wall Street banker. Guys with short hair and no facial hair all look alike just like clones. The reason Wall Street bankers have short hair, no facial hair and wear suits it to make it harder to identify the ones that stole my retirement account money since they all look alike. I often find guys that look and dress like this guy to be more fun to be around and easier to talk too.

    19. Re:Image by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Chances are the kids in suits who work for powerful corporations have victimized far more people than some hoods on a street corner. This is exactly why it's so harmful to judge people based on appearances.

      I think you missed the point that anyone else would have picked up on....I'd not be afraid of the kids in suits causing me immediate, physical harm.

      Not all corporations are bad. Hell, they are a God send for small businesses.....I incorporated myself for contract and other work, and it is the ONLY way to keep your hard earned dollars from the tax man. The W2 employee, is at such a huge disadvantage in that respect....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    20. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would it kill you to judge people based on their acts and not their appearances?

      You mean like breaking into hotel rooms?

    21. Re:Image by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the point that anyone else would have picked up on....I'd not be afraid of the kids in suits causing me immediate, physical harm.

      And I'd bet you'd be even more afraid if the kids in question were black. Judging people based on the clothes they wear is not significantly different than judging them based on the color of their skin. In neither case are you judging them based on the content of their character.

      .....I incorporated myself for contract and other work, and it is the ONLY way to keep your hard earned dollars from the tax man.

      Civilization would be better served if instead of trying to avoid paying your share, you demanded that you got a fair return on your investment in society.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    22. Re:Image by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      Bravo. You've got me convinced. Everyone's an honourable person underneath.

      Now convince the readership of Forbes. Try to do better than the guy with the scruffy hair and 'evil etc' T-shirt that's been hacking into door locks lately.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    23. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter whether you think these people are sorry excuses or not. This reaction is a testable hypothesis that appears as a measurable response in blind testing on a majority of the (voting, buying, etc.) population, whether they can or will admit to it or not.

    24. Re:Image by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Very true. We all judge books by their covers and it takes conscious, deliberate effort not to do so. If you think you're above such tendencies, then you don't know yourself very well.

      That doesn't mean it's OK to do so. It just means you have to exert that conscious deliberate effort.

      The other aspect that people seem to miss is that clothing is a choice, and people consciously use clothing to signal who they are.

      Which is all the more reason not to judge people based on their clothes. You will be manipulated if you do. Particularly by sociopaths wearing suits.

      So if you want to signal respectability, you wear nicer clothes.

      If one was to judge someone based on their clothes, this would be exactly the wrong conclusion. Suits are the outfits of politicians, lawyers, bankers, CEOs, salespeople... the dregs of humanity.

      Now I don't judge people who wear suits negatively, as they might be decent people who have made a simple tradeoff and are fighting the good fight in other ways. But I don't see any way to justify any sort of positive assocation with so called "nice" clothes, which are generally less functional and less comfortable (and therefore less nice) than casual wear.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    25. Re:Image by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      90% or better of people are that sorry of an excuse in some way. Study after study has shown that attractive people get the hirer paying jobs, advance easier in the workplace, and are treated better by coworkers, peers, and authority figures.

      You can compensate for how people view you by dressing and grooming more pleasingly to their tastes. This is especially true when there is somewhat of a target audience. If you doubt me, just show up to a klan rally wearing a shirt that says "once black never back" or go to the hood wearing a shirt saying "I hate stupid niggers". Those will be two extreme and obvious examples, the middle ground, while not as obvious, still exists.

    26. Re:Image by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Civilization would be better served if instead of trying to avoid paying your share, you demanded that you got a fair return on your investment in society.

      I think I pay likely MORE than my fair share. With Federal, State, Parish and city taxes...I'm easily in the upper to mid 40% area.....I should not have to pay nearly half my wages for fucking city, state and federal services.

      And make it easy...get rid of ALL deductions, and quit trying to steer behavior through taxation...and everyone gets a simple form to fill out, no one works to get through the loopholes (I mean, if they're there, you're a fool not to use them)....and life is simpler and you can rest assured that everyone is paying their fair share.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    27. Re:Image by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Now I don't judge people who wear suits negatively, as they might be decent people who have made a simple tradeoff and are fighting the good fight in other ways. But I don't see any way to justify any sort of positive assocation with so called "nice" clothes, which are generally less functional and less comfortable (and therefore less nice) than casual wear.

      I'm guessing you're still in school and/or don't have a 'real job' yet.....?

      You're speaking from an extremely academic or idealistic point of view....which really clashes badly with reality once you've been out in it awhile.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    28. Re:Image by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I'm easily in the upper to mid 40% area.....I should not have to pay nearly half my wages for fucking city, state and federal services.

      You must make a fair bit of money to have to pay all those taxes. Obviously our society is worth a lot to you, if you can make that kind of money in it. Quit being cheap.

      In the absence of actual income information, 40% isn't that terrible. FDR had the top bracket at over 90%. As well it should be. The super rich are super indebted to the society that made them super rich.

      And make it easy...get rid of ALL deductions, and quit trying to steer behavior through taxation...and everyone gets a simple form to fill out, no one works to get through the loopholes (I mean, if they're there, you're a fool not to use them)....and life is simpler and you can rest assured that everyone is paying their fair share.

      This part I agree with. A progressive tax scheme with no deductions and all income treated equally (no special rates for capital returns) would be far more fair than what we have today.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    29. Re:Image by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Trust me, I am in no way rich.

      Working in IT for a few decades, one should at least be close to 6 figures....

      If you make in the $80K-$90K range, which is normal for my age in this field....you pay that amount, and you are certainly NOT rich by any stretch of the imagination.

      That basically gives you a middle income level lifestyle, with money to save for retirement.....if you budget, and don't spend everything as fast as you make it, and live within your means.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    30. Re:Image by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Why are you idealistically fighting this so hard?
      It's an established fact, whether you choose to accept it, that dressing "better" creates better reception among the intended audience.
      Especially if you're dressing to their perception of appropriate.
      Jeez, you can admit that and not be selling out or anything.

    31. Re:Image by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Genius is genius because it's busy being genius and not busy trying to figure out current fashion and acceptable grooming.

      Maybe you should tell DaVinci or Socrates they would have accomplished more if they were clean shaven and didn't wear food stained clothing all the time.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    32. Re:Image by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Genius doesn't care too much about belief.

      You use simple psychological tools on unquestioning believers, and really believers are useless for everything except driving forth capitalistic consumption.

      If you spend even one iota of your time dedicated to convincing people through psychological trickery and not cold hard facts then you're doing it wrong.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    33. Re:Image by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Bad examples. You should stand by what you believe in, regardless of what you believe, because after all it's your belief. Being disingenuous about who you truly are is always a bad idea because the truth always comes out, as every single conflict in human history has proven.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    34. Re:Image by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Actually, the visual focus in the west as the major sensory tool is a learned behaviour, just as prejudice based on cultural norms is, well, cultural.

      Common mistake from westerners who believe their cultural quirks are shared by the whole human race.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    35. Re:Image by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      It's all relative. Your middle income lifestyle is richness beyond belief for the large majority of the world's population... after all, it's based on stealing resources from the majority of the world's population and funneling it to a lucky few.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    36. Re:Image by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Very wrong. Just because a large portion of the population does so does not mean we all do.

      Case in point, I would never judge a book by it's cover because I would never even read the title, or chapter headers, or headers in general. I never seemed to get the hang of accepting other peoples summations and organizations of data unquestioningly without having a look at said data first.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    37. Re:Image by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If those people are such sorry excuses for human beings as to judge someone based on the clothes they wear, they can fuck right off.

      There's not enough time in one's life to have a meaningful exchange with every other human being on the planet. We need filters so we can focus on interacting with a subset of the population. Clothing choices make an exceptional filter, since most individuals have a wide discretionary latitude regarding their clothing options, and they can change that with relative ease. It's a far better option than filtering by geography, skin color, gender, national origin, etc. Those are things people can't readily change.

      The clothes you choose to wear act as a signal to others of how likely (or not) you are to have a meaningful interaction with them.

      There is nothing inherently respectable about wearing slacks

      You miss the point. The slacks aren't what make you respectable. They are the means by which you advertise your elevation of willingness to collaborate with others over your need to express your vanity.

  16. Not just hotel rooms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At my university, they use Onity door locks for the dorm rooms. While the unreliability may make this inefficient for hotel burgling, targeted thefts in the dorm may be an issue...

    1. Re:Not just hotel rooms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My old university uses the same Onity system. I worked for the Housing department and had to work with the very non-tech-savvy Facilities employee who oversaw the whole keycard operation. The technical experience of the person managing their system makes me much more nervous than the thought of someone being able to open any door on a whim.

      Although, Onity is only used for the dorm room doors. All the external doors use HID Andover so a non-resident can't just walk in and start robbing.

    2. Re:Not just hotel rooms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although, Onity is only used for the dorm room doors. All the external doors use HID Andover so a non-resident can't just walk in and start robbing.

      What a relief. I was worried any moron off the street could get to your Onity door. I'm glad to hear only CS majors in your building can get to it. That should cut down on the risk.

    3. Re:Not just hotel rooms by PPH · · Score: 2

      That just means some hot female coed will have her room broken into and her MacBook stolen while she is asleep. And she'll never be woken up.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  17. So they're called by oldmac31310 · · Score: 5, Funny

    pwnity now...

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  18. One in three doors by Jim+Hall · · Score: 1

    I read about this on BBC News this morning, and two things struck me:

    1. "In tests Mr Brocious conducted with Forbes news site, the system did not prove entirely successful - only one of the three doors, at three hotels in New York, opened." So it doesn't work everywhere, but it's a good proof of concept. From the above ExtremeTech article: "Brocious found that he could simply read this 32-bit key out of the lock’s memory. No authentication is required ... By playing this 32-bit code back to the lock ... it opens." While Brocious seems to have taken this only to the demonstration stage, I'm sure others (CIA? MI5?) have made this method more reliable. It just seemed to me that Brocious is assuming this method applies everywhere, and possibly oversold it.

    2. He didn't share this with the hotel lock vendor, Onity. While he's certainly not required to share that info with Onity, it seems a bit shady to only release the information publicly at a blackhat conference, and force the vendor to respond to it after the hack is "in the wild." I wonder if he was worried that if he shared the vulnerability with Onity beforehand that it would take away some of the "thunder" from his presentation. Or maybe it's simply less cool to say to a blackhat convention "I shared this with the vendor, and they're working on it."

    1. Re:One in three doors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2. He didn't share this with the hotel lock vendor, Onity. While he's certainly not required to share that info with Onity, it seems a bit shady to only release the information publicly at a blackhat conference, and force the vendor to respond to it after the hack is "in the wild." I wonder if he was worried that if he shared the vulnerability with Onity beforehand that it would take away some of the "thunder" from his presentation. Or maybe it's simply less cool to say to a blackhat convention "I shared this with the vendor, and they're working on it."

      Understandable, and I really wish he did do it that way, but there's also the fact that there's been a history of those companies coming down on people like that with an army of lawyers to silence them via lawsuits before this information can go public (therefore allowing the company to save face and/or just hope to sweep it under the rug). Since Onity's entire business is now at risk thanks to this data (and it's apparently very very widespread in hotels), the chance they would've tried to silence the guy and destroy his life via litigation is phenomenally high.

  19. Locks only keep honest people out. by cgfsd · · Score: 2

    Like the old saying goes, locks only keep honest people out. If someone wants to get into something, given enough time and resources there is nothing that will keep them out.

    1. Re:Locks only keep honest people out. by icebike · · Score: 2

      Cute, but trite homily.

      Throwing that out there as an excuse is just so much hand waiving the problem away. Murder? Well, you didn't expect your dear brother to live for ever did you?

      Hotels don't promise you security against someone with unlimited time an unlimited resources, nor does anyone have enough time or resources unless they are willing to use explosives.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  20. Most Gov't are Aware Already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When you look at something like the Mosad Assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh in Dubai it seems clear that gov't agencies around the world are already well versed in hacking these locks. The hacks seem no more sophisticated than ATM skimming and hacking. I'm surprised there isn't more of these devices available for sale already.

  21. Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who didn't disclose the hack to Onity before going public

    Excellent. I am sick and tired of the bad guys trying to use legal muscle to prevent talks from occurring. How many Black Hat talks have been cancelled this way already? This is what you get. People will not tell you and just do their talk.

  22. Like the opening scene in a movie by mattr · · Score: 1

    If he is always itching to disclose, who would ever hire him?
    Answer: the wrong people. Not that it sounds like his skills are so great.
    I'd be worried about his safety, next time.

  23. Legacy robberies by Grundibular · · Score: 1

    There may be quite a number of people who have had items stolen from rooms "secured" by these locks now wondering what really happened. I also wonder whether there are any fired hotel staff who have been wronged in this. As Brocious points out, the hack is rather trivial and he's unlikely to have been the first/only person to have figured it out. Brocious > Onity : Oops I accidentally your whole business.

    --
    "Dance like nobody's watching" ... "Poo like nobody's watching"
    1. Re:Legacy robberies by icebike · · Score: 1

      There may be quite a number of people who have had items stolen from rooms "secured" by these locks now wondering what really happened. I also wonder whether there are any fired hotel staff who have been wronged in this. As Brocious points out, the hack is rather trivial and he's unlikely to have been the first/only person to have figured it out.

      Its FAR FAR more likely that a hotel maid's card or a master card was duplicated by her shady love interest than anyone else detecting this.

      I would say its probable that there is NOBODY who discovered this without inside knowledge. After all, who goes around plugging stuff into random sockets in hotel room locks without some inside knowledge of what that socket is for?

      He didn't just happened to stumble on a micro-controller out of his TV remote that did this. He had to custom build a processor to do this. He had to know exactly what was on the other side of that socket. He had to dissect the content of the rom he read in, he had to know the content of the key-card to know what he was looking for. He had to know how to play back the information he pulled out of the rom, and he was still successful only 1/4 of the time.

      He had inside knowledge. He put it out there that thousands might have discovered this to cover his source of inside knowledge.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Legacy robberies by swb · · Score: 1

      Haven't you stayed in a hotel for work just a day longer than you wanted, gotten bored, and started taking things apart?

      Vent covers, everything related to the TV, wall jacks, I pulled the whole place apart as much as I could. I didn't find anything interesting at this hotel (a Hyatt in Irvine that seemed like it was from the late 70s and very low tech), but in more modern ones I can see trying hack the TV and internet access, etc.

    3. Re:Legacy robberies by icebike · · Score: 1

      Ah, No.

      There's always a pool and probably a bar in the hotel's I frequent. Both of which are more interesting than some stupid tv or cat5 jack.

      And I certainly wouldn't go wandering up and down the halls plugging something in to a jack which is located on the OUTSIDE of the room door.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Legacy robberies by qmetaball · · Score: 1

      He had inside knowledge. He put it out there that thousands might have discovered this to cover his source of inside knowledge.

      Or he reverse engineered the locks for a project and learned this as part of that process.

      --
      Everything is porn to somebody.
    5. Re:Legacy robberies by qmetaball · · Score: 1

      but what do i know, i only know the guy.

      --
      Everything is porn to somebody.
    6. Re:Legacy robberies by Paradox · · Score: 1

      The source code in the presentation is for an off-the-shelf (and quite popular) microcontroller set that is sold at Maker Fairs to hobbyist teens. The entire protocol and the weakness of said protocol is exposed in said source code.

      Just because you cannot imagine how he did it doesn't mean that it's unimaginable that someone could do this. It simply means you're out of his league.

      --
      Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
    7. Re:Legacy robberies by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      So, why exactly are you on slashdot? Ah yes, the general decay of nerdom everwhere into fashionable geekness where you only need to be able to recognize buzzwords and repeat them ad nauseum but have no concrete knowledge or experiential use of those acronyms.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    8. Re:Legacy robberies by cusco · · Score: 1

      he had to know the content of the key-card to know what he was looking for.

      No, he just had to know the content of ANY key card. Once you know that stuff is written to Track 3 for access cards (industry standard, although the better programs will let you use other tracks no one ever does) you grab the entire bit stream and break it down.

      For that matter, if he could grab two or three different cards or ROM from two or three locks he could figure out the pattern the hotel uses and custom-make cards to access specific rooms. This is not rocket science, most people who work in the physical security field are not surprised by this at all.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    9. Re:Legacy robberies by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

      So, why exactly are you on slashdot? Ah yes, the general decay of nerdom everwhere into fashionable geekness where you only need to be able to recognize buzzwords and repeat them ad nauseum but have no concrete knowledge or experiential use of those acronyms.

      Your frustration that the parent poster isn't turned on by the idea of disassembling their hotel room when away on business is well evident and even vaguely understandable.. but seriously, Icebike's posts are of consistently high quality and often very insightful.

      Like the GP I've found myself pulling things apart when bored, however this isn't necessarily everyone's cup of tea! Some people eschew hardware tinkering for software geeking, for example.

      It seems to me a touch unfair that you would condemn someone as essentially unfit for slashdot on the basis of such a small thing.

      --
      ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
  24. The standard lock response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    “One percent of people will always be honest and never steal. Another 1% will always be dishonest and always try to pick your lock and steal your television; locks won't do much to protect you from the hardened thieves, who can get into your house if they really want to. The purpose of locksis to protect you from the 98% of mostly honest people who might be tempted to try your door if it had no lock.”

    1. Re:The standard lock response by icebike · · Score: 1
      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  25. Re:As usual however by gblackwo · · Score: 4, Funny

    You have until the end of the day to gather your things and turn in your geek card.

  26. unintentional? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Brocious was hired to reverse engineer hotel locks, and Onity was his first target. The discovery of Onityâ(TM)s security vulnerabilities was entirely unintentional, he says.

    How can he be trying to reverse engineer the lock and unintentionally break it?

  27. Definitely worth a funny mod by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 1

    Well done, sir.

  28. Onity should have been audited for security of the by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My feeling is that Onity should have undertaken a security audit on their product. Hire a bureau/hacker/lab to evaluate the product and the security issues. It turns out that many hotel guests over the world risk compromise of their rooms/belongings. That has been going on for a long time already. If Onity would go bust due to this, they get what they deserve. The saying goes on: It is not difficult to develop something that always gives the right answer, it is _very_ difficult to develop something that _never_ gives the wrong answer. For security applications the latter is valid.

  29. Re:As usual however by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    You don't need his geek card. It was hacked in 5^H 2 minutes using a raspberry pi!

  30. RIAA Security, not real security. by drainbramage · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    The hotels only bought a License to the security product.
    If that security is bypassed the hotels owe damages to the License holder, or Eric Holder, I forget which.

    --
    No brain, no pain.
  31. Sorry about your sox. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My ex was dyslexic, she loved to cook sox.

  32. Not a surprise by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Electronic security (and also IT security) is mostly pathetic in the real world and relies on the fact that most criminals are stupid. With system-breaks possible with electronics and IT this is still true, but does not protect the target systems anymore, because criminals can get the attack-solutions pre-packaged from the web.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  33. Do People Really Expect Security? by Githaron · · Score: 1

    Do people really expect security on their hotel locks? Do most places even have metal door frames? We all know regular locks can be picked with some skill. Why are we surprised that digital locks can be "picked" with some skill. Besides, for a intelligent criminal, it is probably fairly easier to steal a master key. They can then leave the key in the hallway so the maid simply thinks they dropped it. Also, what is to say the maid is even trustworthy. There are so many factors that can come in to play that one should assume that they door lock is insecure and then decide what is an acceptable risk. Your room isn't a vault after all.

    1. Re:Do People Really Expect Security? by cusco · · Score: 1

      The maid's honest because she's an illegal and will get deported if she gets caught stealing anything. Unless she discovers a suitcase full of cash there isn't a whole lot in a hotel room that is worth having to spend a couple of months in jail and then having to scrounge up enough money to pay the coyote to get back here. It can cost up to $20,000 from some locations, your iToy and spare socks are safe.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    2. Re:Do People Really Expect Security? by Githaron · · Score: 1

      They are not all illegals.

    3. Re:Do People Really Expect Security? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but there are other reasons than just the willingness to work hard for low pay that make hotels prefer illegals. No worker's compensation claim if they're injured for instance, they just fire or lay them off. Unpaid overtime. Any number of reasons.

  34. so what? by gemtech · · Score: 1

    A locksmith that I worked for once upon a time said (I installed and fixed security systems for him): "locks are to keep honest people honest". If someone wants to steal something bad enough, they will find a way.

    --
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
  35. Simple fix for hotel guests by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

    Here's a way to defeat the hack, right out of Abbie Hoffmann's steal this book. Bring some two tube 5 minute epoxy with you. If the lock to your room has one of those DC jacks in it mix up some epoxy and fill the jack with it. Problem solved!

  36. Re:Look at the picture... by Megane · · Score: 1

    Um, nope. Wire goes into bottom of lock, top of lock has black rectangle where card goes. Or do you go to hotels where you use the card key to open the door from the inside?

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  37. Re:Look at the picture... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sir.. Are a moron.... The picture in the article CLEARLY shows the OUTSIDE of the door.

  38. Why bother with the hack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you can just steal the master key card from a maid. This is stupid. Think simple people. Everything does not have to involve complicated gadgets and hacking.

  39. At last? by Tiger_Storms · · Score: 1

    I like how this vulablity's been there for years and someone only mentions it now, maybe they were done having fun with is and felt they should do the right thing and tell the public about it. The other way of breaking in to them is to use a hacked keycard, the securty on those door isn't hard to break. You stay there a few times asking for the same room and you'll be able to gain access, some people stay at hotels all the time, so it would only be a matter of time before they had access to all of them. Let's face it the Site ID's only 32bits it wouldn't take long for someone to crack it and make their own key cards that would work with any brand.

    --
    This is a Mac, what you have there is an embarrassment to your fellow computer users.
  40. Oh this is more stupid FUD again by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    Congratulations. The system put in to replace the old system isn't infinitely the best system possible. Dude, it's still better than the old system. I think most forget that this replaced a normal key and lock.

    The normal key and lock can be picked with far cheaper components and far less experience than this one. Lockpicks aren't expensive. They never were.

    So quite complaining, and quit leaving your passport in your hotel room.

  41. re; deabolt by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    required, ADA stuff.. the door handle on all modern locks in multi-unit dwellings will disengage the deadbolt...

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  42. Whistle? Blown. by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    What the hell happened to whistleblower protections?

  43. flaw vs backdoor by flex941 · · Score: 1

    Some call it a flaw, but others know it as the backdoor.

  44. People always think computer is safe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They never learn from JB iProducts, even they do that themselves.

    SmartCards, SmartPassport,

  45. Dear Cody Brocious by axlr8or · · Score: 1

    I'd like to thank you for making many seemingly stupid movies now completely plausible. PS, I have included a gift basket full of internets.

  46. Specialized skills and hardware by marciot · · Score: 1

    So basically we are saying that someone with highly specialized skills and the right hardware is able to open an electronic lock? Back in the present, people with a lockpick set and the skills to use one are able to open millions of regular locks, and nobody was freaking out about that. Locks aren't meant to keep out resourceful intelligent people, they are meant to keep out stupid opportunistic criminals. Nothing has changed.

  47. Or the could just open it the old fashioned way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with a wire hanger.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WAkJRpKeyYg

  48. I'm probably not going to be popular here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But why don't the government just drop a nuke on this "conference"?

  49. Re:As usual however by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm actually staying right now in a hotel room with an Onity lock on the room door. Any advice?

  50. Re:As usual however by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    He doesn't have a geek card, he's a special-ed student trolling the smart kids. Ignore him and maybe he'll go back to playing basketball and leave us alone.

  51. Re:As usual however by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
    Um, same advice for any hotel room, don't leave any valuables lying around.

    But, if you're US'ian and feel the need to be terrorized you should do so at an Orange Terror alert level. Feel free to up it to Red if you see any ethnic groups you aren't comfortable with or people playing with small digital devices you can't identify.

    --
    Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
  52. Re:As usual however by bkcallahan · · Score: 1

    Order some Arduino modules?

  53. You ll sacrifice electronics to hotel rooms??!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But the solution is simply easy idiotic! (KISS keep it simple, stupid!). Redundancy, just add a second traditional lock. Use the hotel vault and three lock doors if you fear theft, do not care if all you would lose is a pair of shirts. Cameriers enter hotel rooms on a minute basis if they want EVEN if you lock it and have a do not disturb message outside. Even if you barricade the door with chairs... I know that. So?

  54. Drumstick by DanielBMS · · Score: 1

    There is also the drumstick trick as seen in New York Minute.

  55. Re:Look at the picture... by DanielBMS · · Score: 1

    Actually the trick shown in the movie is dive to hold the door open with your drum stick just as the occupant leaves.