Latest Netflix Earnings Report Mixed

nmpost writes with one interpretation of Netflix's Q2 results (PDF). From the article: "The beginning of the end may be at hand for Netflix. On Tuesday, the movie rental company posted its second quarter results, and they were not promising. While the company returned to profitability following a first quarter loss, Netflix had a 91% drop in net income. The company's troubles began when it attempted to split its DVD-by-mail and streaming services, effectively doubling the price it was charging customers. External forces are now beginning to weigh on the company, and its doom appears to be within sight. The biggest challenges facing Netflix over the coming months are going to be competition and licensing fees. Three huge companies are competing against Netflix in the streaming arena, which has already surpassed its DVD-by-mail business. Amazon, Apple, and Google all offer streaming content as well. As movie and television studios began to demand higher licensing fees, Netflix will not be able to pay, while these tech giants will. Netflix will eventually be priced out of the market." Engadget, on the other hand, shines some positive light on the report: "The results are in from its Q2 2012 earnings report, and it's claiming 27.56 million streaming subscribers worldwide, up from 26 million last quarter. In the US alone that includes 23.94 million customers, after it reported 23.4 million in Q1, while DVD customers dropped by 850k to 9.24 million." So it appears that Netflix is either gaining new streaming customers, or converting those expensive DVD customers into more lucrative streaming-only customers.

Comments

No more DVD rentals?

[cpu6502]

If Netflix dies I guess that's the end of DVD-by-mail. I know at least one person who won't be happy. He rents the DVD and then he & his wife watch the movie or TV show together.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

This and streaming are the only ways I watch TV shows. If dvd by mail were to end I would just use streaming. It would be a loss but nothing for me to worry over.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Quiet_Desperation]

I maintain one DVD out with my Netflix streaming. Sometimes the DVD rental the only way to get certain things, which is why I laugh in the face of anyone saying "discs are dead, grandpa!" It's not a tech issue but an IP one.

All I want is a flat rate, one stop shop for streaming anything ever made. Completely possible techwise, utterly undoable from an IP standpoint. iTunes works well enough with my AppleTV, but sometimes the cost of a series is more than buying used DVDs (or even Blu-Rays) on amazon. It's variable enough that I have to check every time.

I'm lucky enough to know people with similar tastes who like to buy DVD box sets, and I can borrow/copy a lot of stuff.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[cpu6502]

Hard to stream at 50k. (dialup). Plus even if my colleague had highspeed internet, he still has to go out and buy new equipment so he & his wife can see the movie on the TV.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

A roku costs $50, even at minimum wage that is less than a days worth of earnings.

The dialup is indeed an issue, but for any use of the internet not just streaming video.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[MetalliQaZ]

You must be from Hollywood.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[jeffmeden]

If Netflix dies I guess that's the end of DVD-by-mail. I know at least one person who won't be happy. He rents the DVD and then he & his wife watch the movie or TV show together.

Nonsense, either Netflix will stay open, or there is always Blockbuster dvd-by-mail which is a nearly identical service. At the top-tier of title popularity, Redbox and other kiosk style rentals are everywhere (which is why they are eating up Netflix revenue like crazy.)

Plus, if Netflix is gone maybe the vacuum will spur someone to finally crack the enigma that is "Streaming Rentals" that don't cost an arm and a leg. It's clearly an issue of licensing and not technology or logistics, so it has to happen at some point, right?

Surely, this "friend" you know has little to worry about.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[ethanms]

Netflix streaming, You Tube and my personal DVD collection are all that I watch--no cable, DVD by mail, antenna or other streaming.

Netflix makes up greater than 90% of what I watch, though You Tube is actually quite good for European (BBC) shows split up into thirds, and very old movies (collection of Chaplin movies is good).

I almost never watch my own DVDs because I'm too lazy to seek out what I want to watch and put it in the player... there's just too much commitment in that act and I feel like I must watch it ;-)

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

The blockbuster service is not near identical.

1. they commonly do not have any discs but make it appear as though they do
2. if you do not have an available item in the top 15 it will mail out nothing.
3. blockbuster sucks

The rest of your comment I agree with

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[jeffmeden]

Sooner or later one of the studios is going to step into the vacuum of streaming rentals and realize there is a ton of money to be made there. Think about it, the day the movie hits theaters just start a streaming rental service starting at a premium (say $50 per view). Then concoct an algorithm (this might take a few runs to get just right) that decrements the price based on the day's demand for that title (relatively low demand, price goes down). That way, each day the price goes down (theoretically) by just enough to make the rental sales go up. Get that algorithm just right and you basically milk the entire world audience out of exactly how much they are willing to part with to watch a given title. If the theaters get in on the action, they too could have pricing based on the age and popularity of the film making the cinema experience actually tolerable since later runs will drop in price instead of spending all their time at a top-tier theater at full price, then jumping to a bottom-tier theater at a lower price (if the bottom tier even exists in a market).

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Princeofcups]

All I want is a flat rate, one stop shop for streaming anything ever made. Completely possible techwise, utterly undoable from an IP standpoint.

Unless the BBC re-used the archive tapes.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[networkBoy]

I think this will not happen from a current studio. Once one of the indy groups grows enough to get big talent and big movies then they will be the first to enter this gap. After they break ground the legacy studios will move in. We already see stuff like this in the audio side of the industry, where on-line sales are concurrent with the CD release, sometimes at a lower price and often in MP3 format.

The big companies don't like change, are afraid of it even. I think this one change you suggest would vastly turn around their fortunes and cut deeply into the piracy market. Most pirates (IMHO) are not being cheapskates, they are being convenientskates. I know this is the case for me. I buy a DVD for the kids, I rip it and put it on the media server. It is simply more convenient, not to mention I don't have to worry about scratched disks, something that still plagues their collection of Wii games (but not my gen 1 Xbox games).
-nB

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Hatta]

All I want is a flat rate, one stop shop for streaming anything ever made. Completely possible techwise, utterly undoable from an IP standpoint.

There's a technical work around for that.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[cpu6502]

I use dialup when traveling. The web works just fine especially with image compression turned on. It's only the streaming video that does not work.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

Clearly we define work differently. I hate when I lose 4G on my smartphone, 3G is just so damn slow.

I would never use anything more demanding than ssh over dialup.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[na1led]

I can't even remember the last time I rented a DVD. It must have been about 5 years ago. Maybe this will be good news for the local DVD rentals at the Mom and Pops stores.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[tripleevenfall]

Most people who earn minimum wage do not live below the poverty line in the united states. Most people below the poverty line are those who do not maintain full time employment throughout the year.

Minimum wage earners usually live in multiple-income houses or are young people still getting economic care from their parents, such as students.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

At minimum wage cheap entertainment is a key thing. He cannot afford many of the amusements I have and enjoy. He has a hard enough life without you trying reduce him to a machine. Humans need entertainment as surely as they need food and water.

A roku or better yet a used one would be something he would be well served to have. It is costs no more than a trip to the movies for two people and will let him use services far cheaper than cable television. While I was not at minimum wage I remember when $50 was a large purchase for me and at that time I needed entertainment and escape more than ever.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[steveg]

If DVD by mail were to end, I'd just stop watching. I often don't have time to watch an entire movie (or TV show, but I don't watch many of those) at one sitting, and it might be a week or more before I get a chance to finish one I've started. My DVD player will remember where I am over that time. Does the streaming service?

If it goes away, it does. I've got other things to do anyway.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Fallingcow]

My DVD player will remember where I am over that time. Does the streaming service?

Yep.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Golddess]

but with a stream, it's instant and you can watch what you want when you want.

As long as they still offer it streaming. On netflix, different titles come and go. There's also the curious instances of "only episodes 1-4 and 6-24 are available for streaming". WTF?

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

Why fill up my house with discs I will never watch again? Or hassle with reselling them?

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Logarhythmic]

It sure does. In fact, it holds your place in everything you watch, so you can start as many movies as you want and go back to where you left off in each one later. Unlike most DVD players, which forget everything the moment the tray opens.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[StuartHankins]

If you are using dial-up, I assume you aren't camping and are at a residence at the destination (because a lot of hotels give you free or cheap wifi). That implies you might be served well with a Mifi, provided the cost is acceptable. If not, you can always visit a Starbucks or McDonald's or whatever and get access although that's not as convenient.

Then you can enjoy the rest of the web.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[hendridm]

If dvd by mail were to end I would just use streaming.

Yes, but where are you going to stream from? If Netflix initiates the requirement that you must have a cable subscription in order to use it, what's left? Crackle and Amazon Instant I suppose.

The future is piracy, which is unfortunately, because I'd prefer a legal model.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

Also you can go from device to device without losing position. I currently use a laundromat and it is quite nice to be able to finish a program at home on the tv that I started at the laundromat on my smartphone.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[JazzLad]

Check, but IME 4&5 are usually a two-parter & streaming they combine them as 4. That, and sometimes they have DVD extras only avbl on disc.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[tripleevenfall]

Google.com can help

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[cayenne8]

I'll miss the Bluray deliveries by Netflix.

I saved, and bought a very nice 59" Plasma....and have the sound system to go with it. When I want to watch a good movie, I want BR, so that I can get the best resolution and sound, something that you just are not gonna get from streaming.

Streaming is ok, for documentaries and such, which I do enjoy watching...but for a good, well produced movie, I want BR.....and now that all the brick and mortar stores for rental are gone...if NF goes, that will blow.

Redbox is ok, but they ONLY have recent releases....I don't wanna buy most movies, I want to rent them, but I like the BR versions to stretch my AV set up.

Not to mentiion...the streaming selection from Netflix is pretty dismal.....good documentaries, but when scanning through movies...it looks like a cornucopia of fodder for future MST3K episodes, most of them I'd never even heard of before.

I quit the NF streaming. I do have amazon prime..and found that it comes WITH some streaming, so I got a cheap roku from woot, and found that PS3 now streams amazon. I watch some of that....again, not for my primary high end movie content...but since it comes with amazon prime which I do enjoy for free monthly books and cheap fast shipping....I'll keep that.

I'll miss NF tho...for hard copy rental.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[steveg]

Good to know. My DVD player will remember multiple DVDs -- I'm not sure how many since it's not a huge issue for me, but I've replaced a disc in the middle of play with another one, and the next time I put that first disc in, it started where it had left off.

What I've seen of the Netflix streaming selection, however, is that it's pretty poor. I was one of the few that welcomed the "price hike" because it cut my prices. DVD alone was cheaper than DVD with the "free" streaming, and I was glad to cut that extra cost off, since I never really saw much in the streaming list I really wanted to see. Perhaps 10% of the titles I chose also had a streaming version.

And I'd have to deal with the logistics of getting streaming to my TV. (Nope, sorry, don't have any interest in watching movies on my phone or computer.) The TV's not close to an ethernet jack. It's certainly do-able (Roku or something over WiFi) but ultimately it's not *important* enough to put much effort into.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[operagost]

That's the end of DVD and Blu-Ray, period. There is no video rental store anywhere near where I live and Red Box has increased prices, delays release for a month, and makes browsing impossible. You have to have a list of potential choices before you show up, or you'll have an impatient crowd behind you in five minutes. I know, that sounds like Yogi Berra claiming, "no goes there anymore, it's too crowded," but there are other big problems with the kiosk like not being able to return a disc while someone else is renting.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[ceoyoyo]

"All I want is a flat rate, one stop shop for streaming anything ever made."

Bittorrent?

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[KhabaLox]

Most people who earn minimum wage do not live below the poverty line in the united states.

Common misconception among opponents of the minimum wage. Can you back your assertions with data?

Federal poverty line for a single person is $11,710
Federal minimum wage is $7.25 which equates to roughly $14,500 (assuming you only work 50 weeks).

If you work 1615 (about 9.3 months @ 40 hrs/wk) hours at minimum wage, you exceed the poverty line.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[ceoyoyo]

It does seem like movie studios are really missing the boat on flexible pricing. They're so busy preserving their movie theatre/DVD/TV progression they're missing out on a really fine grained pricing structure.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[ceoyoyo]

I have a lot of books, movies, etc. that I have a purchased copy of and also downloaded a torrent. With books especially - whether it's a Kindle book or a hardcover, a torrented pdf or epub is much more useful.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[KhabaLox]

What I've seen of the Netflix streaming selection, however, is that it's pretty poor.

Netflix does not carry many A-list feature titles from the US. Currently they have the latest Transformers movie, and they had Toy Story 3 a while after it was in theaters, but it's gone now. They have a lot of quality Asian (mostly Korean) features, and a lot of independent films and documentaries. Netflix's strength, to me, is it's episodic content. It has a lot of TV show, old and new. Breaking Bad, Lost, Damages, 24, Luther, Sherlock, Battlestar Gallactica, Dr. Who, Archer, Louie, Mad Men, Scrubs, Top Gear, Futurama, Mythbusters.... the list goes on and on.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[KhabaLox]

If Netflix initiates the requirement that you must have a cable subscription in order to use it, what's left?

Has this been suggested? That's a requirement for HBO Go, but I've never seen that suggested for Netflix. It doesn't even make sense given their business model.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Depends on what they have. iTunes is the last resort if all other avenues fail. What's so confusing?

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Ha!

I still can't believe they did that.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Was that a joke?

Unless it's pretty new and/or popular, I get get one seeder in Ulaanbaatar providing a copy encoded in some Ukranian format that Google Translate tells me is "Yuri's Really Fine Codec Purple Monkey".

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Media houses too greedy to make it happen ... yes.

That was, in fact, the undoableness I was referring to. :-)

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Kjella]

All I want is a flat rate, one stop shop for streaming anything ever made. Completely possible techwise, utterly undoable from an IP standpoint.

From one vendor, yes. But the real issue is that you can buy one CD here, one CD there and still play them in the same player with playlists across different sources. With pretty much all current streaming services you're locked to that service's tools. What would be slightly more feasible from an IP standpoint and still feasible from a tech standpoint would be some kind of generic client that could play music from any of your subscriptions and give you common playlists, not unlike the repository model for distributions. You could have some free music sources, some paid ones like Spotify, small bands or labels could set up their own streaming source. To make the powers to be happy it'd probably have to be a closed client but it could be by a non-profit company on RAND terms.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[suutar]

unfortunately, some of the stuff they have discs for they don't stream (and nobody else does either). And even for the stuff they do stream, they don't have the language options.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[ceoyoyo]

Maybe you're looking in the wrong places. I rarely have a problem finding what I'm looking for, and I have a friend who's into classic foreign film. You can't just go the the pirate bay and type it in though.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[hendridm]

Has this been suggested? That's a requirement for HBO Go, but I've never seen that suggested for Netflix.

Oops, that was a typo. I meant Hulu Plus.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[cpu6502]

My current hotel does have free wifi, but that isn't the norm. For example Super8 and Motel6 charge around $3/day or $90/month. Dialup is a mere 7 per month.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Dyablos]

Yet most jobs that pay you minimum wage hardly ever work you with 40 hours. I have worked several of these minimum wage jobs and was lucky to break 32 hours a week for three weeks. And yes I was full time.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Quiet_Desperation]

Just unlucky, I guess. :)

Obviously, I exaggerate. A tad. Generally I get what I want once I get to the "used DVD" stage. Only thing I tormented recently was Dexter season 5.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[KhabaLox]

32 hours x 50 weeks = 1600 which puts you just under the poverty line (by about $100). GGP included the caveat about " those who do not maintain full time employment, and while the term "full time" is not strictly define by the FLSA, 32 hours is at the very low end of what is generally considered full time. I think most people consider anything less than 40 hours to not be full time (I know I do).

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[brokeninside]

And buying them all over again when an HD disc format finally takes off.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[h4rr4r]

HD from netflix looks as good as any DVD is going to get. Assuming you have a decent internet connections. With blu-ray you have a point, but for 99% of stuff HD does not matter. Sitcoms are the same in SD or HD.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[Wolfrider]

--Yep, I have no cable TV at my house; only broadband Internet and Netflix DVD service.

--I hope Netflix reads this Slashdot thread and realizes that some of us are VERY loyal to them, and hope that they *never* do away with DVD and Blu-ray mail shipping. The convenience of having the next item(s) in your Q delivered automatically, without having to worry about broadband caps or ISP outages, is -much- better than having to go to Blockbuster all the time and browse.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[nobaloney]

I currently use a laundromat

How are those little round screens with HD movies?

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[cundare]

But there's a missing link in that logic. In order to make your point, even if your other assumptions are correct (e.g., 40 work hours per week), you would need to show that "most people who earn minimum wage" (or some reasonable approximation of "most") are single.
This is why it's difficult to support a complex or subtle conclusion by citing a single statistic. Even simple statements -- actually, _especially_ simple statements -- are generally built upon implicit assumptions.

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[highphilosopher]

I would never use anything more demanding than ssh over dialup.

Whoah! SSH over dialup? You're a very patient person. I won't hardly use SSH on anything less than a full 3G connection!

Re:No more DVD rentals?

[highphilosopher]

On /. you manage to mention Scrubs and Futurama, but you fail to include Star Trek?

net income loss is year on year.

[gl4ss]

q on q it's.. well, I don't know how you'd use percentages to turn a negative into a positive, but over(under) minus -100% ?

they're profitable at least now.

I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[binarylarry]

Why pay for streaming with Netflix, which doesn't work on Linux, when I can use Amazon and the other services which work everywhere.

Fuck Reed Hastings and his company.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

Because Amazon has far less selection?

I would not have it, if I had not gotten a PS3 for free. If Amazon ever gets a real selection for prime streaming I will switch to that. I will not pay $1 to rent a half hour show. $0.25/hour would be about the most i would pay.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[cheesybagel]

Yeah if they are still using Silverlight they are missing out on all the phone and tablet users as well.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[binarylarry]

It's true Amazon's selection isn't amazing (I was just using them as an example, I get it "free" with my prime membership).

That said, I wasn't extremely impressed with Netflix streaming either, when I had it a year ago.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

I get amazon streaming with prime as well. Which finally works on the PS3, that only took years. They still will not stream prime videos to my android device for free, unless I use flash.

The netflix selection is much better than it was a year ago, still not great but good enough vs what is on TV anyway.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[alen]

if you're talking about cartoons then just pay $10-$20 for the season. cheaper than DVD's at $15 for a few episodes and its not like you will need them for more than a few years.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Quiet_Desperation]

Eh? My iPad has a Netflix app. Android has it, too. Hell, that's one of the big things about Netflix- it's ubiquitous. My XBox, PS3, Wii, iPad, Mac and AppleTV all have Netflix apps.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Sebastopol]

What do you mean? I watch Netflix on my Iphone when I wake up at 3am and can't get back to bed.

Who are "all the phone .. users" that are missing out? Droid droids?

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[jellomizer]

Because only 1% of the population uses Linux for their Personal Computer.
And Netflix works on things like the XBOX and Wii, Apple iTV, and a bunch of other stuff too.

Netflix does work on Linux, there is an Android port. Or are you talking about it running on GNU/Linux?
 

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

For $20 I can pay for netflix for a month.
I do not watch very many cartoons.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[vlm]

If Amazon ever gets a real selection for prime streaming I will switch to that.

Can you now buy prime streaming alone, or only the package deal with free shipping for "stuff" and kindle books? I have the package deal, don't know if there's a new cheaper option to just buy streaming. My kids don't care about selection, as long as there's a purple dinosaur on screen they're happy.

BTW "Real selection" comes from U****t or torrents and is viewed on the mythtv box connected to the adjacent HDMI connector with a multi-terabyte array on the other side, coincidentally that's the same place live TV comes from. Mythtv used to have a awesome internet streaming module around 0.21 or 2006 or so... um not anymore. Ditto mythtv's music player which has turned into an incomprehensible spouse and kids defying playlist monstrosity, but soma fm works fine on the roku. You could say the next version of 0.25's music player is called roku.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[starless]

I currently have both netflix and amazon prime. Overall, the free streaming with amazon is roughly comparable, in my experience, with netflix. A few things I've looked for have only been available on one or the other. On the other hand, the advantage of amazon is the non-free selection. If one doesn't mind paying for the additional material sometimes, it increases the range of what is available to quite a large extent. However, my fear is that if netflix dies, then the "free" material on amazon would reduce substantially, and they'd try to sell more of the one-time rentals.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

Netflix works fine on original Droid phones.
If you upgrade it to an aftermarket OS you might have to do some work to get it to work well, but not very hard.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

If the costs were reasonable I would pay for it but they are not so I will not.

To me reasonable would be 50% of the DVD price to buy and competitive with redbox for rental. Meaning a typical TV series should not cost more than $4 to rent, since they rarely take up more than 4 DVDs.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

I believe only the package deal, which is what I have.

They screw you on the kindle books if you don't own a kindle brand device. Which is almost enough to make me cancel it. There is no reason why any android device cannot get the free books.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Smivs]

The reason Netflix is Linux-unfriendly is because they have locked themselves in to a failed M$ technology (Silverlight) and are too keen to placate the Movie moguls with excessive DRM. And who cares? Not me for one. If they choose to look backwards in terms of the tech and service and ignore a whole chunk of their potential customer base they deserve to die, and don't deserve my hard earned cash.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[gl4ss]

well.. they do provide an app for linux, but it's requirements are that you run android on that linux, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.netflix.mediaclient&hl=en

so, it's a bit political and more than just silverlight, though they might have initially received some kickback to use silverlight exclusively in the first place(even if it that kickback was just discounts on sw... phb's can be phb's and don't usually understand if a kickback is an actual kickback).

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

Hastings is on the MS board. Netflix chose silverlight to promote silverlight. It really is that simple.

It works on linux if MS would hand over the DRM binary, they will not ever do that.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[ethanms]

I've been hesitant to use Amazon since they screwed me with a downloadable movie--their app failed to run, as a result I lost the rental fee. It was ultimately refunded, but very aggravating to spend the time on it. The quality of their streaming appears to be inferior to me which is why I went for the download.

Their rental fees are pricey too, particularly for older stuff... $2.99 to watch an old movie? Too much given what you can get from Netflix by mail or Redbox. They need to get it down to 99c for older movies and 50c for TV episodes (with a reasonable price for season pass)

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[cpu6502]

>>>There is no reason why any android device cannot get the free books.

Amazon wants you to buy the hardware, so they tie you to the kindle for the freebies. A bit like Apple's model where OS X only works on Macs, not any android or windows device. Ya know you COULD buy a kindle... it's only 50-60 used. (I bought the 3G version for 70 like-new.)

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

That is not a technical reason. That is the same bullshit that keeps netflix from streaming every video ever recorded.

I do not want a kindle. I like having real android tablets. I dislike e-ink. It refreshes slowly, flickers badly when it does refresh, lacks lighting and in general looks like phonebook print. I know the e-ink fanbois will now flame me, but I just looked at some devices last weekend and they still look this crappy.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[cpu6502]

I won't flame you, but I disagree that e-ink is bad. I can stare at it for hours without the inevitable eyestrain that comes from looking at a too-bright LCD screen (which I suspect over time will cause cataracts). It more-resembles the paper of an actual book.

As for lighting: Barnes&Noble now has a glow-in-the-dark eink display. I figure it's only a matter of time until Amazon copies them and has their own glowing kindle: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook/379003208

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[na1led]

Actually, the cost of Amazon Prime I think is well worth it. For all you get, streaming movies, free 2day shipping, 1 book rentals on kindle. All for only $79 a year. Reason I purchased it was to save $50 shipping on an Air Conditioner, and now I can watch prime movies on Roku.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Mister Whirly]

Because I don't let my OS choice decide which movies I get to watch?

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

What you suspect and what scientific testing have shown are at odds. I know who I will trust.

I stare at an LCD 8+ hours a day at work, I don't see how another hour at home would matter. I don't get any eyestrain at work anyway. If your books have as low a contrast as e-ink I suggest you buy higher quality printings.

Glow in the dark does fix one issue, but there are still so many others.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Anonymous Coward]

Silverlight isn't the problem. Netflix runs on the Boxee Box, which is a Linux system. The only reason Netflix doesn't work on desktop Linux is that they don't want it to, nothing to do with MS.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[SrLnclt]

Agreed. My wife was working on her masters, reading lengthy academic papers on an LCD screen (laptop and/or PC) for several hours at a time. After having eye-strain issues she picked up a Kindle, and the problem greatly diminished. Its one of the few devices that comes close to paper in terms of readability for books and such.

You have to know what you are getting. If you are looking for a tablet - decent graphics, games, etc. a Kindle isn't a good choice. If you simply want an e-reader, the Kindle is the way to go. If you turn off the wireless when not in use, the battery life is ridiculously longer than any back-lit display will ever be, since the e-ink uses zero power once a page is displayed.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Rockoon]

I cannot believe that you folks even consider $0.99/movie for older stuff to be reasonable.

Yes, $2.99 is outrageous.. but so is your suggesting $0.99. I watch 4 to 5 movies a week on Netflix, which would cost ~$20/month with your silly suggested pricing model. Instead I pay them $8/month.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[japhmi]

That is not a technical reason.

No, it's a business reason.

"Should we offer free books with Prime to Android users too?" Is not a technical question, it's a business question.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[cruff]

Because Amazon has far less selection?

In my experience Netflix has far less selection and Amazon had the desired content available for streaming. We probably would have kept Netflix, but they made it impossible to subscribe only to the DVDs only category and Netflix's web site redesign was done by morons that made it hard to do things.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

Which is just a way to be a greedy cunt to an already paying customer.

Not the kind of folks I really want to be doing business with.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[farble1670]

Because Amazon has far less selection?

you have to consider more than just the numbers. netflix is adding crap content daily, but i've stopped looking in their new releases, because there's nothing there i've ever heard of. netflix doesn't get blockbuster movies, ever (anymore). amazon does.

what makes me laugh, is that netflix is full of knock-offs of major movies, like they are trying to fool people into thinking they have something they don't. they don't have "kung fu panda", but they have "chop-kick panda". they don't have "avengers" (the recent movie), but they have "avengers" the crappy cartoon (which, despite being released in 2010, is under "new releases").

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[farble1670]

does netflix use silverlight on Wii? on android? iOS? i don't know, but it seems unlikely. clearly they have other client technologies they could use on linux.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[ceoyoyo]

Maybe most people don't have eight to 12+ hours a week to watch movies?

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[KhabaLox]

Why pay for streaming with Netflix, which doesn't work on Linux,

Is that a failing of Netflix or Linux? I don't think Netflix wrote the client programs on my Wii, PS3 and Roku box through which I stream Netflix. (But maybe they did. They wrote the iOS app I guess.)

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Rockoon]

Asking the question doesnt make it so.

The typical (ie, average) American watches 150+ hours per month. Thats from Nielson and includes Broadcast, Cable, and Streaming sources.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[ceoyoyo]

How much of that is movies, and how much of it is older movies?

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[cpu6502]

>>>If your books have as low a contrast as e-ink

You know, e-ink has improved a lot since the 1st or 2nd generation you saw it. The latest version has "paper" equal in whiteness to the typical cheap paperback or newspaper.

As for LCDs, I can't imagine the UV rays they emit are any good for your eye's lens. Which is why I suspect they'll cause cataracts. (Also read the post below this one.)

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Sayjack]

e-ink is great if you want to read out in the sun. The 70 buck kindle also fits nicely in my cargo shorts so I can read at the outdoor mall outside Barnes and Nobles while my wife shops, and shops, and (how can they do it), shops...

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Rockoon]

Next you will ask if all 60 utensils in my kitchen drawer are different kinds. Well there are knives, forks, spoons, and surely 57 other types.. right?

I bet you have fallen for movies such as 'Loose Change' and all those Michael Moore movies, because they are full of questions you also can't answer.

Lets try this question asking thing...

Will ceoyoyo (59147) ever come out of the closet?
Will ceoyoyo (59147) ever find a respectable job?
Will ceoyoyo (59147) ever apologize to his mother for saying very nasty things about her?
Will ceoyoyo (59147) ever realize that the act of asking questions doesnt actually make a point?

No, people are not watching 1800 hours per year of new content, dumbass.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

It has improved since Saturday?
I find that hard to believe.

How are LCD backlit by LEDS emitting much UV?

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[h4rr4r]

They did write all those client programs.
There is no other way for it to work, they will not tell anyone how to connect.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[Wolfrider]

--If they would have more levels to the Prime plan, say $50 for the free shipping for a year, I would go for it.

Re:I cancelled my Netflix subscription a while ago

[na1led]

If you purchase a big ticket item on Amazon, then getting the Prime Plan would make more sense.

Naturally

[DanTheStone]

Since nearly all the content people want to watch needs to be licensed willingly be the major studios, this should be no surprise. They'll just keep raising their rates until Netflix goes out of business. This is the inevitable failure of a permission-based service provider.

At least with DVDs they weren't existing at the whim of the studios. They could make them horribly angry and still operate legally. With streaming they have no such independence.

Re:Naturally

[ewieling]

It seems that if the studios keep raising their streaming licensing fees then DVDs eventually will be cheaper for Netflix to handle than streaming. I don't think this will force Netflix out of business.

Re:Naturally

[Quiet_Desperation]

That's what is so sad about the whole thing. Netflix had a handy villain in the need to eliminate streaming as a freebie, but their horrific PR made them look like they were just increasing prices for no reason (I saw a *lot* of people online who believed that). Doing that and trying to split the service at the same time only compounded things. It's definitely going to show up in business school texts as a case study.

Re:Naturally

[Sebastopol]

This is what will eventually kill Netflix. It also means in the future I'll probably watch a LOT less movies. I watch netflix every night, either movies or TV series (I have streaming and 3 DVD package, and a member since 2003). That's about 60 hours of programming a month, which would cost ~$60/month for Amazon/Google but I pay 1/3rd that, and can watch even more, amortizing the costs further.

If the studios have their way, eventually we'll all be paying $15 per streaming movie at home, and Megaplex tickets will be >$30. And people will still pay it to see Adam Sandler fart jokes. I can totally see that happening.

Re:Naturally

[glassware]

Netflix replaced a model whose business parameters they controlled (DVD by mail) with a model whose business parameters they do not control (licensing streaming content). Eventually, Netflix will be forced to become a Cable TV provider that streams videos on demand; you'll sign up to Netflix and then pay an extra $10 per month for access to Universal movies, $5 for access to Comedy Central, and so on.

Re:Naturally

[The Moof]

It seems that if the studios keep raising their streaming licensing fees then DVDs eventually will be cheaper for Netflix to handle than streaming.

That's a good way to make DVD piracy popular again.

Most average users I know only got into copying DVDs (via Netflix mail discs) so they had movies on hand when they wanted to watch them. Streaming took that need away for most people since they could just fire up their device (Xbox, PC, PS3, Wii, TV) and watch what they wanted. Take away that ability with streaming, people will just start copying DVDs again.

Re:Naturally

[na1led]

The DVD's is what's holding Netflix back, and the reason why no one else wants to touch them. Netflix needs to ditch those DVD's and let RedBox handle them.

Re:Naturally

[jfengel]

I never figured out why he wanted to split the business. Yeah, I can see wanting to push the streaming over the snail mail version, but I couldn't figure out what the business case was for separating the companies. If you want to eliminate it, eliminate it, and deal with the wrath of consumers who know that a lot of things can be had only on DVD. Some kind of tactic to push the studios to release more via streaming?

It seemed like nothing but loss with no upside. But the PR fail was so strong here that I had a hard time identifying any business case for any of it.

Re:Naturally

[DocSavage64109]

Since nearly all the content people want to watch needs to be licensed willingly be the major studios, this should be no surprise. They'll just keep raising their rates until Netflix goes out of business. This is the inevitable failure of a permission-based service provider.

While I agree with you and only subscribe to the DVD/Bluray side of Netflix, what's funny is that your prediction is the opposite of this line from the summary: "Netflix is either gaining new streaming customers, or converting those expensive DVD customers into more lucrative streaming-only customers." Though, you're prediction is a bit down the road, and perhaps there is streaming money to be made right now.

Re:Naturally

[Maltheus]

This was so obvious from the moment they fully embraced streaming as their future. It's not like anyone else was beating them to the punch so I couldn't understand why they'd go that route.

Court battles have already ensured that the studios can't charge a rental store more for a copy of a movie, than an ordinary consuming. And that guaranteed predictability in Netflix's business model. Once streaming comes into the picture, they're obviously at the mercy of the studios, who are notorious for having no mercy. WTF were they thinking?

It's a shame, I still like Netflix, but they get the Darwin Award on this one, for reasons that go beyond Qwikster.

Re:Naturally

[Anonymous Coward]

Most average users I know only got into copying DVDs (via Netflix mail discs) so they had movies on hand when they wanted to watch them. Streaming took that need away for most people since they could just fire up their device (Xbox, PC, PS3, Wii, TV) and watch what they wanted.

THIS. I used to copy DVDs like crazy from Netflix by mail (admittedly, I had a bigger collection than I could actually watch). Once streaming became mainstream I stopped doing that (mostly because I was reasonable kept busy and entertained by the stuff on NetFlix and Hulu). I actually haven't copied a DVD in a couple of years. Then I read articles like this, other articles suggesting Hulu Plus is going to eventually require a cable subscription, net neutrality, get irritated when the movie I watch isn't available on anything (including Amazon Instant, which you outright PAY FOR) and I say hello bittorrent + VPN.

I get to decide how I want to watch it, not you. Don't like it? Die and burn in hell until it is financially unviable to make content anymore. I really don't give a fuck. DRM is such bullshit. I'm trying to be your customer for fuck sake and you try to screw me at every possible opportunity. Go eat a bag of dicks.

If I download a movie off of the torrents:
1. Most movies I want to watch are easily available, unlike legal alternatives (name almost any non-ancient movie off the top of your head and go see if it's on Netflix. There's a decent chance it's not on Amazon either)
2. No DRM or expiration dates - I can watch it when I want, however I want. (I love it when seasons are mysteriously removed from Hulu Plus or are "web-only"!)
3. Don't have to deal with download caps (or soon net neutrality; I download it once and can watch it as many times as I want).

Re:Naturally

[ceoyoyo]

"At least with DVDs they weren't existing at the whim of the studios."

What? If a studio says "thou shalt not make a DVD out of our movie Planet of the Apes" then DVDs of Planet of the Apes don't get made. Also, if a studio says "thou shalt pay us $100 per DVD you make of our movie Planet of the Apes" then you pay them $100 per DVD you make of Planet of the Apes.

Re:Naturally

[n7ytd]

The DVD's is what's holding Netflix back, and the reason why no one else wants to touch them. Netflix needs to ditch those DVD's and let RedBox handle them.

Even better, let's have Netflix and Redbox merge so that I can return my Netflix movie at a Redbox and exchange it on the spot for a new one. Plus, with my new NetRedFlixBox membership card I will be able to get unlimited, one-at-a-time rentals from the Redbox near my office.

Re:Naturally

[Quiet_Desperation]

He's in over his head. Kudos to him on getting it going and succeeding, job creation and all that, but I think he's just been overwhelmed. Personally, I would have sold it off, invested the proceeds in something really boring and safe, and taken up a ludicrous and expensive hobby. Never understood the alpha mentality to work until they die even after they have more money they could ever spend. My goal is to work hard, retire as early as possible to someplace nice in the mountains, and tell society and the rat race to go fuck itself diagonally.

Re:Naturally

[Segisaurus]

The business split was due to the licensing agreements. I forget which studio was mentioned in the article I read at the time of the split but the scenario went like this. Studio license costs $500,000/yr if you have less than say 100,000 subscribers. If you go over that subscriber limit the Studio ups the fee to $5million/yr. With Netflix as one company the studios were lumping DVD only customers with the Streaming customers to inflate the subscriber limit. If the streaming side became its own business then the license fee is based only on streaming customers. At the time the DVD only customers were something like 2/3+ of the customers. If the split had been successful it would have severely reduced the license fees that Netflix was paying. If Reed had come out and explained this to the customers the split might have worked. But he didn't. So Netflix came out looking like they were simply trying to double your monthly bill.

Re:Naturally

[jfengel]

That makes some sense.

I don't even think they were really planning to raise the bill in that deal, though they were using it to hide a (separate) substantial rate increase. As streaming gets more content, people switch to lower disc programs. I'm paying about as much for more viewing-hours than I used to get.

Still, splitting the company would have been an enormous hassle to me. Maintaining two queues, paying two bills, trying to figure out which service offered what... that would have been a serious degradation in service. And Hastings should have been able to avoid it: Netflix is surely big enough that it can renegotiate deals that weren't intended to scale like that. At worst, that kind of split should have been a threat, "I could do this so cut your damn rates", but clearly if it was the threat backfired.

Overblown

[brianleb321]

"The beginning of the end may be at hand for Netflix. [...] its doom appears to be within sight." Are you kidding? The company with 28+ million subscribers is not going to fold any time soon. In fact, it's not going anywhere ever. Worst case scenario, they get bought by someone else who can do it for cheaper.

Re:Overblown

[kingramon0]

Oh, good. I guess that means AOL has nothing to worry about, either.

Re:Overblown

[alen]

WTF is there to buy? a few content licenses that expire in a few years?

Re:Overblown

[AttyBobDobalina]

How about Yahoo buying Netflix ? Get back in the game against Google-tube, Amazon and Apple.

Re:Overblown

[O('_')O_Bush]

Like most technology companies, the value is customer loyalty/information, branding, and the platform.

Re:Overblown

[alen]

amazon has a platform, netflix uses it to run their corporate IT

what does netflix have? PS3/blu ray/x-box/roku now have the amazon and netflix app. child's play to use one instead of the other

Re:Overblown

[farble1670]

what others have said is correct. they are completely at the mercy of content license holders, and more and more, those license holders are their direct competitors.

netflix was innovative as they figured out how to super-scale the content deliver mechanism, and had the smarts to make their client ubiquitous across almost every platform. however, more and more, such things are well-understood and duplicatable by others.

that, and the fact that the folks that control the pipes into peoples' homes are also competitors (e.g. xfinity streampix). i read recently that xfinity won't count the bits from streaming their service against your data cap.

they have 28M subscribers today, but they don't have a leg to stand on going forward. the opportunity was to bring all of the content license holders in as partners. that boat has sailed. they should have bent over backwards with concessions and profit sharing to make this happen.

Credit where due...

[jxander]

NetFlix may not survive, but even if they die out I couldn't be happier for their contribution to the world.

You may not like their policies, business decisions or CEO, but NetFlix was a pioneer in their field. They were the first company to provide cheap, easy, unlimited streaming compatible with dozens of devices. That genie is out of the bottle now, and while there's a long battle ahead over licensing fees, royalties, etc ... there has been a permanent shift in the way we watch movies.

NetFlix has also established a very nice base price-point. If Amazon, Apple, Google or any other competitor want to charge more than $8-10 a month, they'd better provide some added value.

Re:Credit where due...

[Githaron]

NetFlix should consider multiple pricing points. First off they need a nearly complete collection of movies and TV shows. After that, they could have multiple plans based on how recent a movies/TV shows come out. For example, $15 a month will get you access to all movies/TV episodes that are 3 years or older; $30 will get you everything 2 years and older; $50 will get you everything 1 year and older; and $100 dollars will get you everything from the day of release. If you want access to a movie/TV episode that is newer than your tier allows, you can either upgrade tiers or pay per view. NetFlix should guarantee at least two simultaneous streams.

Re:Credit where due...

[jxander]

I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar to this as the future of streaming. Though as AC points out, age may not be the best criteria.

Whatever they decide though, NetFlix (or whichever competitor) must provide a basic service on par with what we know and are accustomed to for $10/month or less. From there, any upgraded plans will have to add value for the money.

Honestly, what I'd really like to see are à la carte entries. Basic service for $8 per normal, but then (just an example, don't get too hung up) for $50/season you could stream Game of Thrones at the same time as people watching it via cable/HBO

Re:Credit where due...

[Githaron]

$50 is way too expensive. You can get a DVD box set for cheaper than that.

Re:Credit where due...

[JazzLad]

He's not suggesting competing with dvd, but with your (presumed) cable bill.

Re:Credit where due...

[phorm]

so... at the same time or sooner than it's available via Netflix in non-US countries...

Re:Credit where due...

[Githaron]

NetFlix is in direct competition with all TV/movie distribution regardless of the source.

Re:Credit where due...

[farble1670]

NetFlix has also established a very nice base price-point. If Amazon, Apple, Google or any other competitor want to charge more than $8-10 a month, they'd better provide some added value. /quote.

and they were able to survive on that price point because they had no competitors / were essentially a monopoly. that's not the cause any more. as expansion slows and the pie is carved up between them and their competitors, you are going to see their prices rise.

Re:Credit where due...

[kat_skan]

The ridiculous price of cable is the entire reason I have Netflix in the first place. Never mind $100 a month, if it were $50 I'd cancel it in a heartbeat.

Re:Credit where due...

[JazzLad]

Likewise. I could see $10/mo for cable or possibly $20, assuming they had every channel I wanted to see & included a DVR. For just over 1/3 that, I get Netflix.

Pfft

[FBeans]

Perhaps one of the competitors will actually provide a service that is DRM free, or at least value for money like Spotify. Until users get uncontrolled access to the media they want to purchase, their will only be one company that will remain solid and stable: p2p sharing. Die or survive, I don't think I could care less for netflix.

Be careful what you wish for

[JWW]

A note to the MPAA. You better be careful what you wish for.

My family loves and adores Netflix. It is an creative and innovative method of consuming entertainment.

If the MPAA succeeds in their obscene desire to destroy Netflix at any cost, I WILL NEVER EVER respect their "IP" rights. I will steal any content I want.

I am sick to death of the entertainment industry on bing hellbent on not letting me enjoy the entertainment they are selling in the way I choose to.

They should view Netflix as a godsend that enables them to have a future. Instead they view it as the enemy.

If they destroy Netflix, I will have no ethical problem stealing what the movie and TV industry creates. Their obscene greed and arrogance doesn't give them any moral standing to lecture the customers who they depend on for their existence.

GIVE US WHAT WE WANT! Oh and what we want is to not wait months after DVDs are released to stream movies, and we don't want to pay $5 to rent a streaming video, and we don't think ridiculous DRM schemes (hello ultraviolet) are reasonable.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[MetalliQaZ]

They owe you nothing. If you convince yourself that you don't have to pay for entertainment, then you will be surprised when their lawyers come-a-knocking.

I'm not saying it's right, but they don't give a fsck about you or what you think. You REALLY want to stick it to them? Read a book.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[Jeng]

I wonder by how much was music piracy reduced by the introduction of legitimate digital distribution methods?

Considering the insane amount of music iTunes sold in their first year alone it has got to be rather substantial.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[ethanms]

If the MPAA succeeds in their obscene desire to destroy Netflix at any cost, I WILL NEVER EVER respect their "IP" rights. I will steal any content I want.

They will not be satisfied with "flat rate" pricing for given periods of time, and frankly that will only lead to the Viacom-DirecTV styled battles we've just recently seen anyway--with Netflix or the studio content provider superimposing text over your stream airing out their contract laundry, etc.

I think the ultimate model will unfortunately be cell-phone-esque with a bucket of hours for a fixed price, various contract tiers and overage charges... You are allowed to watch then it's up to the streaming company to settle costs with the studios.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't like the way you decide to sell your product, so I'm going to steal it.

I don't like the way you decide to license your software using GPL, so I'm going to ignore your license, and use it how I see fit in my proprietary closed source application.

It's the same thing. You go right on ahead and be a thief if you want to. It doesn't make it right.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[MetalliQaZ]

Then the police will come, and I presume you would also shoot at them. Then they will put you down and the world will have one less jackass to deal with.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[Jeng]

I don't like the way you decide to sell your product, so I'm going to steal it.

When you make it easier to steal a product than purchase a product what exactly do you expect to happen?

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[grumpyman]

I understand your sentiment. But at the end, we can wish for whatever we want but they "own" the content and they will do whatever they want. I just do OTA and at odd times, buy a DVD or something. I did have Netflix subscription and kinda like it. If they kill it then what can I do? Honestly there's a whole lot of stuff to do than just movie/tv stuff. Upwards of $100/month cable fees to watch 1% of what I really want to watch doesn't click with me. I opt for non-TV activities.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[billcopc]

Amen, brother.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[davros74]

But not an eBook with DRM protections. One of the dead-tree variety.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[rastoboy29]

They don't give a fsck what their customers think?

Since when is that a good business model?

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[qbel]

You have it backwards.. they are making it seem more worthwhile to steal a product than to pay for it. The advancements in technology make it easier to steal. Big big difference. It's like when I used to ask my brother to get me the cereal from the top of the fridge when I was too little. He'd say $5, and I'd go find a chair.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[evilviper]

When you make it easier to steal a product than purchase a product what exactly do you expect to happen?

I would expect fewer people to buy the product, and very little theft.

I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to steal a car than buy a car... I don't expect most people to go around stealing cars, though.

Quit with the rationalization of copyright infringement... If you don't like the MPAA, the best thing you can do is get your entertainment somewhere else. It not only starves them of money, it also breaks the network effects of lots of people having seen the crappy nondescript zombie movie number 973.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[Jeng]

In the late 90's/early00's I could either go many miles from home to go to a music store and physically search their selection of music and hope that they have what I want then I would have to go though the process of paying.

Or I could hop on my computer at home, do a search, find the music I want and then download it and there was not an option to pay for it even if I wanted to.

I don't pirate music anymore since I have better options now.

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[JWW]

I do pay for entertainment. I pay my Netflix bill every month.....

Re:Be careful what you wish for

[Rakarra]

Nice words, Internet tough-guy. Now let's see you put your plan into action. Go ahead, take on the police, let's see how far your AC-posturing takes you.

Re:Not a surprise

[pavon]

Actually expansion to other countries is the biggest factor causing them to operate in the red (their screw-up in the US just added to that).

In September 2010, we began international operations by offering our streaming service in Canada. In
September 2011, we expanded our streaming service to Latin America and the Caribbean. In January 2012, we
launched our streaming service in the UK and Ireland. We anticipate significant contribution losses in the
International streaming segment in 2012.

google/amazon vs.netflix question

[Sebastopol]

If I want to watch Breaking Bad I can pay google $8 per season or $2 per episode, or I can pay Amazon $22 per season (!!!).

Or I can pay Netflix flat rate of $20 and watch all four seasons, then watch Dexter, Weeds, Black Adder, for no extra cost.

How is Google/Amazon's model even remotely a threat to Netflix?

Clearly I'm missing something.

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[alen]

that's just one show. netflix selection is crap in general and they lose shows daily.

amazon is $80 a year and includes free shipping and book borrowing. and i can rent a movie that's not on prime direct from the x-box or ps3 app.

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[Githaron]

NetFlix is pricing at a price that consumers like. Google/Amazon is pricing at a price that publishers like. If publishers refuse to sell licenses to Netflix, Google and Amazon win. I think publishers need to realize that their content is not nearly as valuable as it used to be.

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[ethanms]

$80? I pay $39?

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[Sebastopol]

Amazon's selection is worse than Netflix, unless you only care about shows from the last 6 months.

So that $80 is unlimited streaming of Amazon's (limited) library? Or do I have to pay for Prime too?

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[farble1670]

Clearly I'm missing something.

you are missing that netflix doesn't have the new season of BB. when will they have it? will they ever have it? who knows.

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[fferreres]

Maybe there is something more into play. If Netflix is seen in 27 million households now (that an immense market penetration), they become a monopsony. If Disney has this awesome movie, we'll ...it must be awesome...and if they don't sell it toNexflix, maybe I'll buy it. But for all the crap they put, and most of the crap others put, you are either on Nextflix or dead. I can't imagine your satisfaction when you pay $5 to stream bad movies. Two mistakes a months pays your Netflix.

What Netflix is lacking is more money. I'd gladly pay what I pay for DVD to increase selection by 50%. The crucial mistake Netflix did is to make the Streaming version a buffet. If people where happy with 2 at a time, or 3 at a time, or 1, that mean you could see maybe 6 to 18 movies a month. So why isn't streaming like that? 2 a week, 4 a week, 6 a week and 10 per week + an unlimited number of "prime-like", cult, cartoon, non-blockbuster movies to fill in, and TV series. That way, Netflix could agree to be a "collecting agent" to movie studios paying in proportion to viewership, JUST like Apple does for music. What they'd do for us is: negotiate a very fair price, provide content in a very convenient way, simply the movie/tv experience drastically, (finally) get rid of the largest productivity and joy killer i the world - ads.

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[evilviper]

amazon is $80 a year and includes free shipping and book borrowing

Amazon is a huge fan of loss-leader pricing when they're trying to grow new services.

Remember all the super-cheap MP3s when they were ramping-up their service? All gone now, and they're as expensive as everyone else... Now their special deal is some random 10 year-old album from some nobody for ONLY $5, rotating every week.

Enjoy the service while you can, but expect that Amazon is 100% certain to pull the rug out from under you at any moment... Maybe ramping up the price, maybe most of the benefits disappearing, or maybe a combination of the two.

Re:google/amazon vs.netflix question

[Rakarra]

If I want to watch Breaking Bad I can pay google $8 per season or $2 per episode, or I can pay Amazon $22 per season (!!!).

Or I can pay Netflix flat rate of $20 and watch all four seasons, then watch Dexter, Weeds, Black Adder, for no extra cost.

How is Google/Amazon's model even remotely a threat to Netflix?

Clearly I'm missing something.

What you're missing is that the studios, whose blessing Netflix needs to survive, find Netflix's price point unbearably low for their tastes. They charge fees high enough to bring Netflix's prices up to the level of Google/Amazon.

Streaming is a cash grab, and the studios are trying to grab as much as they can right now.

wife acceptance factor

[vlm]

wife acceptance factor?

OK I got the roku box. So, honey, I can sign up for amazon prime or netflix. If I sign up for amazon prime I'll never pay for postage again and it'll all be 2 day instead of next week or so, but netflix offers nothin extra. You can guess how that discussion turned out.

The crazy thing is amazon prime is basically free for me because I buy so much stuff from them that I profit WRT to annual fee vs no more postage. I assume this free postage stuff will go away if I buy too many 40 pound bags of kitty litter from the other side of the country. I have to look into that. I'll need road salt in a couple more months and I was thinking ten 80 pound bags of crystal solar salt might work.

Re:wife acceptance factor

[rjr162]

But not all amazon treaming is cfree for prime members, some is just discounted where as Netflix is a set monthly fee with as much as you can take in. I will note I have Netflix and am also an amazon prime member so I'm not biased.. but I also think vudu's HDX format beats them all

The world won't miss Netflix (and alikes)

[Cajun Hell]

Let's hope the whole proprietary streaming industry collapses. Not just Netflix, but Amazon's and Apple's too. If you need a weirdo client to play the videos, then you have taken a technological step backward from OTA TV or analog cable TV. I am not going to pay for their weird luddite religion.

The current state of the art is offered by pirates: here's the file and it Just Works, with whatever software you want to use, on any box that you want to play it on, to be played at any time of day that you want.

Solutions which generate revenue for the industry, need to become at least as good as that. Nothing less, will ever get a cent from me. Until then, piracy will both serve consumer needs, and also (two birds with one stone!) deny revenue/reward to the industry which is doing everything it can to retard (and even regress) progress. Starve them until they offer what we want.

The world won't miss Netflix. We already have something much better, more convenient, more reliable, more interoperative, which also come with that good feeling that the technophobes in Hollywood aren't getting your money. The best part of it all, is that when they match all the technical aspects (the convenience, the reliability, the interoperability) then the good feeling will flip at the same moment, and money will start falling into their laps. It's all so easily solvable; just say yes to customers, like every other industry learns to do. Hollywood, you're not a special exception to this ancient principle.

Re:The world won't miss Netflix (and alikes)

[dkleinsc]

The current state of the art is offered by pirates: here's the file and it Just Works, with whatever software you want to use, on any box that you want to play it on, to be played at any time of day that you want.

Why would that surprise you?

Free market economies only work when something is scarce - for example, there's no market for breathable air, nor is there a market for seawater on a coast. Sequences of bits aren't naturally scarce, because computers are really good at copying sequences of bits for very very low cost. So in order to make something that is not scarce scarce, there's a giant legal and technological mechanism put in place. That technology and law must by necessity cripple the normal abilities of computers to prevent them from doing what they normally can do.

Re:The world won't miss Netflix (and alikes)

[alen]

i want to watch TV on a gasp,,,,,,,TV. not on a laptop. i have no time to transcode or whatever. i'm not going to pay most money for faster internet. i'm not going to buy hard drives or NAS or whatever. i'm not willing to pay more money for electricity to keep my stuff on 24x7.

unless you live in mommy's basement and have no bills the cost of "free" is more than legit

when i cancel cable i'm going to pay $40 a month for 5mbps internet. no reason for anything faster. in fact i'm going to downgrade from my current 10 or 15

Re:The world won't miss Netflix (and alikes)

[DogDude]

"We already have something much better, more convenient, more reliable, more interoperative, which also come with that good feeling that the technophobes in Hollywood aren't getting your money."

And this thing is...?

Re:The world won't miss Netflix (and alikes)

[Hatta]

Free market economies only work when something is scarce

The correct thing to do when we have a non-scarce good is not to artificially destroy the scarcity, but to abandon the free market model.

Re:The world won't miss Netflix (and alikes)

[mcrbids]

You seem to have strange ideas about what "Internet TV" is. I've never transcoded anything. I don't bother with a NAS, or hard drives, or whatever. I don't leave anything on 24x7, and I've basically never had the desire to torrent anything.

Do you think 5 Mbps won't be fast enough? I've had good results at just 1.5 Mbps, excellent at 3 Mbps, and my current 10 Mbps lets everybody in the house stream simultaneously without issue.

I use an aging Mac mini with a standard 32" TV as my "TV", with a wireless bluetooth keyboard with a touchpad on it and wifi Internet. I can also watch DVDs, play Xbox/PS3, whatever. The Mac is more like a streaming DVD player with a big (keyboard) remote, in how I use it.

Hulu + Netflix + pbs.org + $CommercialNetwork.com pretty much does it for my needs. Youtubing is also pretty interesting because you don't get a "canned" experience.

You could probably download VLC and BT movies from TPB if you wanted. At 10 MBits, torrenting 500 MB (typical downsampled movie size) would take about 10 minutes, less time than hitting $1 Redbox at the local 7-11.

Focus on streaming recent TV shows IMO.

[Krojack]

I've tried HULU and for the most part their offering of recent TV shows is pretty bland. If Netflix focused on streaming TV shows the day after it aired then I would be more interested. Get steaming of other TV shows other then the 4 main networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX). More from History Channel, Discovery, SciFi, FX, TNT and so on.

Re:Focus on streaming recent TV shows IMO.

[Jason Levine]

I'm sure they would love to do that. The problem is: The content owners don't want them to. Netflix sees "watch it a day later" (or even a week later) as a huge possibility for profit (for them and content owners). Content owners see it as lost ad revenue (from live airings), lost DVD sales revenue, etc. They want their content locked up so that only they can tell consumers when they can watch. This doesn't mesh well with Netflix's business model.

Fuck Netflix

[diego.viola]

TPB for life.

They could have done things right

[teaserX]

Netflix had an opportunity to transform their business and their clientele but chose instead to overreact. They should have slowly phased out DVD-by-mail by paring down the available DVD catalog in favor of streaming offerings without charging their customers higher fees. I personally would not have been offended by having to stream a show or a movie because it was no longer offered as a DVD. I might have been disappointed that Blu-Ray was no longer an option for certain things but doubt I would have quit as a subscriber over that. They took exactly the wrong action: cut down my options and ask me to pay double. Instant ragequit.

Re:They could have done things right

[DogDude]

The DVD rental is the only part of Netflix that's worth using. Maybe if you're from TV-land (cable, satellite), and you're used to having what you watch dictated to you, then you'd find Netflix streaming adequate. I tried it for a while, but to say the selection was bad wouldn't be fair to the word "bad". It's fucking terrible.

Re:They could have done things right

[MobyDisk]

They should have slowly phased out DVD-by-mail by paring down the available DVD catalog in favor of streaming offerings

My Netflix queue contains exactly 200 items, of which 53 are available via streaming. When 190 of the 200 items are available on streaming, *then* they can start to get rid of the DVD business.

Re:They could have done things right

[Githaron]

I hate using the DVD service. I have to decide what I want to watch days ahead of time and have to remember to go to the Post Office. Streaming is the way to go.

Re:They could have done things right

[forgent]

Funny, many of us see waiting for scratched discs in the mail as being unfair to the word "bad" Many people want to watch what they want instantly. Not planning it out over the course of weeks with queues. That is far more than cumbersome.

Re:They could have done things right

[tgibbs]

Why phase out a profitable business? And why would you imagine that customers would have responded more favorably to paying the same amount for less than they responded to a choice between paying the same amount for less or paying more for the same service that they had been receiving?

Re:They could have done things right

[tgibbs]

I've gotten hundreds of disks from Netflix. I think I've received only two that did not play properly. I use both services, but I use disks-by-mail more frequently because they have a much deeper library.

Re:They could have done things right

[lewiscr]

I don't think they can completely get rid of DVD-by-mail. It's a "competitor" to streaming. If the price of streaming is too high, NetFlix can just fall back to DVD-by-mail for the same content. Without that competition, content providers are free to charge whatever they want.

Re:They could have done things right

[Wolfrider]

--Thank you. Half my kingdom for mod points, but I already posted... Personally, I almost never stream. I hope they *never* get rid of DVD by mail, and the available content for my Q stays high.

Re:They could have done things right

[Rakarra]

Funny, many of us see waiting for scratched discs in the mail as being unfair to the word "bad."

And only three times out of the hundreds of Netflix discs I've gotten has that been the case.
Meanwhile, I consider the shitty streaming quality, lack of extras, incredibly poor selection, and poor network performance while streaming is happening to be unfair to the word "bad."

Apple/Google/Amazon options?

[Formorian]

Ok I know that sometimes I miss things but which of those 3 offer a flat rate of $8/month to stream all content avail. Isn't amazon per show/season, same with apple. Not sure what google is offering outside youtube.

I'm generally curious. The wife and I get all our content from either netflix or sickbeard+sab+astraweb. And I only use the latter when Netflix doesn't carry it, cause I try to support legal options for streaming. Also is my roku/bluray going to support these other options? (I know roku does have amazon)

    (Oh I do use the latter to DL the 720p versions of the DVD's I already own cause I'm not rebuying at same price (charge me $2-$4 I probably would) for the better quality (don't have a 1080p TV my 50"/32" have been fine past 5 years and plan to get many more))

Re:Meh

[dkleinsc]

(yes, "engratin" is a perfectly cromulent word)

Wait, are you saying we should put ourselves in a dish with cheese, cream, and breadcrumbs and bake at 350F for about an hour?

Re:Naturally-diversification.

[MetalliQaZ]

I believe they already do. Google "Lilyhammer"

Re:Naturally-diversification.

[h4rr4r]

They have and they are. The current show Lillyhammer is pretty good, assuming you can read. Some people seem to not be able to, thus subtitled programs are too complicated for them.

The next big thing is new episodes of Arrested Development, which I am very interested in.

NorthMobilePost.com?

[phx_zs]

The Engadget article isn't really negative at all, while TFA is completely slanted and makes it seem like Netflix is about to fall any day. And maybe I've been living under a rock, but I've never heard of "NorthMobilePost.com". Just seems like flame bait or competitor propaganda to me. Netflix is still the king of the hill and their subscriber base is growing.

Re:NetFlix, and Bittorent for everything else...

[DogDude]

Bittorrent is a crappy substitute for Netflix's DVD service. I mean, I guess it's fine, as long as you want to risk your legal ass to watch crappy versions of teen movies with Hindi subtitles. I wish my standards were as low as yours!

But

[assertation]

Last I heard streaming content was nowhere in size near DVD based content

Mod parent overrated

[fiannaFailMan]

Yeah if they are still using Silverlight they are missing out on all the phone and tablet users as well.

WTF? I watch Netlfix all the time through its iPhone app.

As planned

[wytcld]

The drop in net income for Netflix is according to plan. The plan is to rapidly expand into new markets, investing current income in growth, rather than taking it as profit. Subscriber numbers and hours of content streamed both show the plan is proceeding nicely. The size of the subscription base gives them the income to buy the content to keep subscribers happy. In my house, we watch about 3 movies a week streamed from Netflix, and about 2 movies a month individually rented from Amazon. So they're each getting 8 bucks from us. But Amazon Prime isn't worth it - the selection is far slimmer than Netflix's, and with our purchases of other stuff from them over $25, the shipping's free anyway.

Anyway, Netflix wasn't looking for immediate profit this last quarter. They were looking for income to reinvest. They got it. They grew. Since when was it the wrong strategy for an Internet company to get really, really big first, and worry about profit afterwards? Worked for Google. And Amazon.

Rent multiple movies

[tepples]

I use dialup when traveling.

You could always buy an Android tablet with enough storage to hold multiple movies and then rent enough movies from Google Play to last you through your trip. I seem to remember having an option to download the entire rented movie to DRM storage before watching it. (Look for the push-pin icon.) Or what am I missing?

Re:Rent multiple movies

[h4rr4r]

Or just rip ones you already own.
Handbrake is free and easy to use.

Re:Rent multiple movies

[cpu6502]

>>>You could always buy an Android tablet with enough storage to hold multiple movies and then rent enough movies from Google Play to last you through your trip.

I do but that still doesn't help me read email or facebook. Hence the need for dialup internet. With text & image compression turned-on, the pages appear to load as fast as a 500k connection.

Cap

[tepples]

You have to wait 2 days for it to show up in the mail, but with a stream, it's instant and you can watch what you want when you want.

With a stream, it eats into your monthly data transfer allowance, and someone living in an area where the best home broadband has a single digit GB/mo cap (e.g. satellite or WISP) isn't going to be watching a lot of movies in a month.

The DVD side is a legacy, and will go away just like horse drawn buggies.

If the roads in your area were unsuitable for cars, you'd have to use a horse drawn buggy. The DVD side will go away once streaming is available everywhere in the same sense that electric power and land-line telephone service are available everywhere.

The rural last mile

[tepples]

if Netflix is gone maybe the vacuum will spur someone to finally crack the enigma that is "Streaming Rentals" that don't cost an arm and a leg.

The enigma in question is the rural last mile, and that's an issue of "technology or logistics" for ISPs to solve. Disc rental by mail is the only practical service if all you can get in your area are dial-up and satellite, not DSL, cable, or fiber.

Re:The rural last mile

[h4rr4r]

There is another solution one we already adopted, most people do not live in rural areas.

For those people that do, DVD by mail will be around a long time.

Re:The rural last mile

[ethanms]

The enigma in question is the rural last mile, and that's an issue of "technology or logistics" for ISPs to solve. Disc rental by mail is the only practical service if all you can get in your area are dial-up and satellite, not DSL, cable, or fiber.

Where the heck are all you people that you can't get access to cable or something better?

It's been better than 15 years that I've had access to a T1-or-better download connection.

Re:The rural last mile

[W. A. Dragunov]

i live 15 miles from the nearest city and cannot get cable or DSL. the only service choices are satellite or verizon air card. neither of those options provide enough bandwidth for any type of streaming.

Re:The rural last mile

[h4rr4r]

Why would you live there?
I am house shopping and one of the requirements is FIOS or I will not even look at the place.

Non-sports fans switch from cable to OTA+Netflix

[tepples]

The netflix selection is [...] good enough vs what is on TV anyway.

By "what is on TV anyway" do you mean cable or OTA?

Re:Netflix needs its own freakin box

[MetalliQaZ]

I gave my parents Roku for Netflix.

Need Google Play Store first

[tepples]

they do provide an app for linux, but it's requirements are that you run android on that linux

Say I install Android for x86 on a desktop or laptop PC. How do I get Google Play Store onto Android for x86 on a PC so that I can install Netflix? I understand that Google Play Store comes only prepackaged with devices, and I'm not aware of any x86 laptops that come with Google Play Store.

Re:Need Google Play Store first

[h4rr4r]

Netflix for android makes use of the NDK and is not compiled for x86 last time I looked.

Re:Need Google Play Store first

[gl4ss]

well, installing play store is actually pretty trivial. I guess the point about it being not compiled with x86 support in ndk being not so trivial(intels atom android phones do have a recompilation layer/emulation for that too though afaik).

just saying that it's political that desktop linux isn't supported, they could support it easily but they've committed to silverlight on "desktop".

I think streaming will be dead in the water

[erp_consultant]

If the pipe providers have anything to do with it (and they will) you'll start seeing caps on the amount of data you can download per month. One or two of them have already started this. We're seeing it with the cellphone providers doing away with "unlimited" data packages. Streaming an HD movie takes a lot of bandwidth. Until recently the problem was the speed of the home connection. Now you can get very fast home internet connections so speed is no longer an issue. The next issue will be the so called "bandwidth hogs". Those greedy telco pricks will no doubt find a way to put caps on the amount of data you can download with your broadband connection, probably by offering tiered pricing. And if you're someone that likes to download a lot of movies be prepared to take it up the ass when those plans get announced. In the end it will cost more for streaming than getting DVD's by mail, maybe a lot more. At that point a lot of people will go back to the DVD my mail model. Yet another example of technology advances getting stymied by greedy companies looking to squeeze every nickel they can from you.

Re:I think streaming will be dead in the water

[Un pobre guey]

There is a finite cost to providing people with water, gas, electricity, and of course network bandwidth. Are you suggesting that people should get infinite bandwidth for a low fixed monthly price?

Re:I think streaming will be dead in the water

[erp_consultant]

Yes I am. When I signed an agreement to get my internet connection hooked up there was no mention of bandwidth limits of any kind. Any change to that agreement voids the contract as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure how much broadband is where you are but I'm paying $50/month. That's not exactly low priced in my view, especially if the agreement changes and I'm allowed less bandwidth than before. For the record, I don't stream movies so I doubt that my usage is very high. If it does go to a tiered pricing model I doubt very much I would be effected by it. Water, gas and electricity are finite resources. There is a limit to how much can be produced and, in the case of water, a real shortage in some areas. Network bandwidth is capable of expansion at a far easier rate. I understand that there are infrastructure improvements that need to be made to accommodate that but the telco profits more than cover that.

Re:I think streaming will be dead in the water

[farble1670]

it has already begun.

xfinity has a cap of 250GB, however, content streamed from their streampix service doesn't count against the cap.

Re:I think streaming will be dead in the water

[erp_consultant]

Didn't know about that. Well, 250GB a month seems like a lot to me. That's still an awful lot of movies. Then again, I don't use Netflix or Amazon Prime to watch all my tv content. I could see it adding pretty quickly if you did. But the catch of course is that they are trying to lock you into their streaming service. Streampix could end up being a honeypot to entice people to get around the bandwidth limit and then...whoops....they take away the unlimited agreement. You know, kind of like what AT&T and Verizon have done.

Re:I think streaming will be dead in the water

[farble1670]

250GB is a lot, and a normal person won't exhaust that. however, it is a carrot, and this or something like it can be used to stifle netflix at the ISPs' whim.

Re:I think streaming will be dead in the water

[Rakarra]

When I signed an agreement to get my internet connection hooked up there was no mention of bandwidth limits of any kind.

Agreements can (and will) be changed. You're certainly entitled to not agree to the new contract, in which case the ISP is free to not provide you with service. Your $50 was always, from the very beginning, predicated on the notion that people use very little of their big pipe. When that changes, the agreements have to change as well.

Providing idiots can divide?

[SecurityGuy]

So somebody managed to type =R55/M55 and figure out that Net Income is 9% of what it was last June. Congrats on an entirely useless analysis. NetFlix was losing money last quarter and now isn't. This is a good thing, and anything but an indication that NetFlix is on its way out.

If anything's interesting, it's that they're now paying $155,000,000 more to deliver those subscriptions to only about 10% more subscribers. Without spending any time looking for the answer (I'm not a NetFlix investor, so I don't care), I'd infer that content providers are taking a bigger bite of the value NetFlix creates. They're STILL managing to do that profitably. If they can't, they'll raise prices and a lot of people, including me, will probably still find them a compelling value at $10-12 a month. It's possible content providers will price them out of the market, but they have a financial incentive not to unless they're directly competing with NetFlix.

Re:NetFlix, and Bittorent for everything else...

[Formorian]

newsgroups? 720p? 1080p? sub's included. TV released 1hr after airing?

Re:Netflix needs its own freakin box

[Jason Levine]

I second the Roku box recommendation. My father (who isn't the most technically inclined) was able to get his set up with little to no trouble. You can stream Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and more with it (so if you switch services you might still be able to use Roku). It's so simple, my five year old can operate it.

I don't want streaming

[Un pobre guey]

I get the Netflix DVD service, not the streaming. The streaming is heavily skewed to boring, hyper-commercial new releases, whereas the DVD collection is a vast library of indie, foreign, and artistic films and videos essentially unavailable anywhere else. Losing that would be a tragedy. I don't give a flying fuck about the latest movie star vehicles or blockbuster action crap. I can't stand the cardboard acting or shallow and contrived writing of most commercial movies that are on the streaming service. Bummer.

Re:I don't want streaming

[MetalliQaZ]

The streaming is heavily skewed to boring, hyper-commercial new releases

It's actually even worse. New releases usually aren't available on the streaming service. So, its more like hyper-commercial year-old and older releases.

Re:Netflix needs its own freakin box

[h4rr4r]

Roku or Google TV.

Both are easy enough for children and the elderly.

My thoughts on it

[rjr162]

Not that anyone cares, but my thoughts:

Netflix: reasonable price, good feeds but selection can be lacking and TV series a season or more behind

Hulu Plus: great price, selection on TV shows sometimes fills in what Netflix is missing (and vice versa). Can't stand the ads

Amazon Instant Video: unlike the others no monthly fee, everything is single purchases or a season. Discounts and some free stuff for prime members. Up to date but streaming can sometimes be problematic compared to the others on the ps3

Vudu: like amazon no single monthly fee, everything is single purchases or a season. Streams great and their HDX format is top notch for streaming. Absolutely great picture with 5.1 audio, but also the most costly of the group.

If they go away

[gelfling]

We can look forward to rapacious bullshit from the cable companies to empower the fuck out of all of us. Time Warner would jack their prices day one, reduce their on-demand services and move that whole catalog to pay per view.

Doesn't make sense

[Nyder]

... Three huge companies are competing against Netflix in the streaming arena, which has already surpassed its DVD-by-mail business. Amazon, Apple, and Google all offer streaming content as well. As movie and television studios began to demand higher licensing fees, Netflix will not be able to pay, while these tech giants will. Netflix will eventually be priced out of the market. ...

Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Are they saying Amazon, Apple and Google are going to be operating their streaming service at a loss? And since those companies have other revenues, they can afford to go on while Netflix will die? Seriously? Sounds like a really stupid business model to get into.

Here's my take on it: Most the major studios are/have ISP themselves, so why do they want to lose out on profits they can be making themselves? HBO Go They of course, aren't licensing their stuff to Netflix, because they want the money for themselves. Other studios are hmm, cut out the middle man, but the middle man is giving us money, so how about we just make it more expensive for him?

For example, if you use Comcast streaming stuff (which costs), it doesn't go on your 250gb cap. But if you use netflix, it does.

The truth is, the studio were really fucking slow to get on the bandwagon, and Netflix appeared to fill a need, now, the studios in the greedy grab to get as much money before the system collapses, are going to fuck the middleman until they are the only option left for consumers.

I honestly think the various Corporations involved in the Corporate Greed Policy, know their days are numbered, and are getting what they can, while they can, before enough people wake up and put a stop to it.

It's the sacking of Rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome

 

Re:Doesn't make sense

[Un pobre guey]

I honestly think the various Corporations involved in the Corporate Greed Policy, know their days are numbered, and are getting what they can, while they can, before enough people wake up and put a stop to it.

This is meaningless. It is a perennial empty claim usually made by naive teenagers and early twenty-somethings. It will not ever happen. If people are paying so much for a product or service that makes the provider a huge amount of money, the only choice is to break a monopoly if it exists. In this case it does not, there are many providers. If it ever gets too expensive for consumers, demand will drop and so will profits. If they drop a lot, there will be a shake out and only a few providers will survive.

I do agree with your contention that something doesn't make sense. All of the streaming providers use the same three CDNs (Akamai, Level3, and Limelight), so their base costs are the same. No movie studio can create their own. It just isn't do-able in practical terms. Content providers can't charge so much that Netflix, Hulu, iTunes, etc. can't make money on it, nor can they flagrantly engage in anti-competitive behavior. Bottom line: they will have to suck it up and Netflix will survive.

Re:Doesn't make sense

[farble1670]

Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Are they saying Amazon, Apple and Google are going to be operating their streaming service at a loss? And since those companies have other revenues, they can afford to go on while Netflix will die? Seriously? Sounds like a really stupid business model to get into.

those companies don't offer an all-you-can-stream buffet like netflix. they offer per-title rentals fees, which is generally much more expensive ... so, they are charging more and probably giving the content holders a tastier cut.

amazon has free streaming content for prime members, but that doesn't include a lot of new releases / popular content.

This is not a new problem....

[gosand]

Replace MPAA with RIAA and Netflix with MP3s and it is the exact same argument from the late 90s.

They have the same MO. They create this desire, the NEED for this entertainment. Then they have to control how you get it. People will either get turned off to it, or find ways around it. It happened with MP3s. It was all about ripping/sharing/DLing (napster). What the RIAA *should* have done was embraced MP3s, converted their massive backlog of music to that format, and set up a cheap pricing structure and ways for people to get them. Instead, they fought to destroy digital music.
We see how well that worked.

Hell, this is the 2nd time around for the MPAA, they fought in court to get VCRs banned, declared illegal. Look how much money they made off of VHS/DVD sales.

I love Netflix, we've watched all kinds of stuff we wouldn't have set out to watch otherwise. Just got done with United States of Tara. We do the DVD and streaming options, with kids it's well worth it. I hope Netflix thrives despite the licensing challenges ahead of them.

Growing

[Aggrav8d]

Netflix is investing heavily to expand into international markets. That's where the lion's share of their revenue has gone. I feel they have a stronger brand in movies-on-demand than anyone else, and the single price point is easier to grok than other companies - which is a lot friendlier to the customers. Being an internet company, their brand preceeds them overseas by word of mouth, so I'm betting their revenues will be up in the coming quarters.

A bit late for beginning of the end

[tgibbs]

If these results are such a bad sign, shouldn't the "beginning of the end" have been when Netflix's guidance in its previous quarterly report projected this performance? Or even a quarter before that when they predicted multiple quarters of losses due to the expense of expanding their streaming business to other countries?

Avid Movie watcher's fear....

[realsilly]

I watch movies all the time via the Cable subscription channels and I rarely watch regular TV. But now I'm becoming very frustrated with all providers of movies whether it be streaming, paid channels or even NetFlix. I pay for 2 sets of premium channels a month and HD channels (limited #no.) for my entertainment, and it used to be that if I paid for the premium channels, any movies they are currently showing during a specified time frame I could watch on demand. Now, that's barely even available.

NetFlix was bothered me at first because I didn't like the idea of wasting $$ when I might not watch a movie in a month. Eventually it really took off and I really enjoyed it for the DVDs were sent to the house and there weren't late fees. It basically destroyed the Video stores. I can't find one anywhere anymore. When they offered streaming, WOW, awesome. But the ISP's have jumped all over that and the MPAA and everyone has to have their hand in the cookie jar and double dip too.

Cable providers tack on their own fees for everything and frankly cable prices are sky high for (in my opinion) not so great selections of programming content.

I hate going to the movie theater because movie prices are just too expensive in my eyes, and lets not talk concession, or about all the people who refuse to turn off their phones or leave their kids at home for R rated movies. I do still, but very very limited.

I'm frustrated that their is virtually no where I can go to peruse a video selection from outside my home and have an expansive selection to choose from. Best Buy, FYE have a large selection, to buy.

NetFlix has a varying selection. Sometimes content is available, sometimes it's not. DVDs are disappearing and Streaming is becoming the norm. And with everyone else killing it or tacking on their own fees, it's ridiculous. Augh.

I know old video stores were a pain in the butt, but at least they existed.

Re:Not a surprise

[billcopc]

Same here. I tried it for two days, ran out of content to watch - I shit you not!

It seems us Canadians only get a few hundred b-movies, incomplete seasons of TV shows (even Trailer Park Boys!), and stuff you can catch for free with an antenna. I am in no way cheap, so it takes one hell of an epic fail for me to deny a company eight measly dollars. Hell, I often drink fancy beers that cost more than that per pint.

Netflix failed hard. I'd rather pay twice as much for Usenet access to download what I want.

Re:Netflix needs its own freakin box

[tooyoung]

My Dad is interested in Netflix, but the problem is what to get for him. Apple TV ties him to a walled garden, Boxee is too complicated for him (seriously)

If Boxee is too complicated for him, then what is he planning on doing with the box that goes outside of what a walled garden (Apple TV) would provide?

Cancelling account

[bodhisattva]

Their selection of streaming movies sucks. Films listed under 'recently acquired' have been there for a year or more. They used to have agreat selection of documentaries but I've seen most of them. A few good foreign films get in. The point is that they spend as little as possible licensing movies rather than paying more for good ones and attracting more viewers. They're penny wise and pound foolish. Lots of businesses make this mistake and most go down the tubes.

Licensing is the big issue. Imagine a service able to stream every movie ever made in every language. Storage is nothing. Bandwidth would give ISPs seizures. But licensing? Negotiating those would be a nightmare no one would want to face.

Netflix never appealed to me

[guruevi]

The movies were always old, the TV shows stale, they barely brought out new content and then they decided to give a big middle finger to DIY'ers by packaging it in Silverlight and refusing to give any sort of API for integration in any Open/Free/Commercial product.

Perhaps, but the studios aren't just studios

[brokeninside]

You've got several layers of business here: (1) the studio, (2) the production company that funds the studio (the studio might be independent and the production company purchases content from the studio or the studio might be in-house for the production company), (3) the first level of distribution (think "network" like NBC or Comedy Central), (4) the physical distributors (cable companies, satellite companies, streaming companies, wholesalers, retailers, etc.).

It is increasingly the case that all four of these are owned by a single company. For example, TimeWarner owns the studios that make much of the content for the CW network, they fund those studios, they own CW, and they own Time Warner cable and some CW stations that brings the content to your door. And, herein, lies the problem. If you decide to stream a CW show, it does increase the profit at the third level (or at the second level depending on how the contract works) but at the fourth level they are losing revenue _and_ incurring greater costs.

For TimeWarner to "realize there is a ton of money to be made" they have to figure out a way that they make more money _across the board_ and that is a harder problem than first appears. I'm not saying that it can't be done, mind you. But it isn't as simple as saying that _x number of people will pay to stream title y and therefore they will make metric truckloads of money_. For example, say they start streaming all the CW original shows and charging for it. They now have an additional income stream. But this disinclines terrestrial stations from airing that same content so the CW network may lose affiliates that decide other content is more profitable because they won't have to compete with streaming. It also disinclines cable and satellite providers from paying Time Warner to broadcast CW stations. So here are two places where Time Warner as a whole is losing revenue from the decision to stream CW content. Moreover, they lose ratings because they lose marketshare so CW looks less like the young and hip network that it is supposed to look like. And Time Warner cable now has to build out additional capacity because streaming video is taking off.

If this problem could be solved, most content providers would move to streaming in a heartbeat. Why? Because streaming enables what they really want: charging per viewing per device. They really do not like DVD sales at all because they allow for rentals. Their ideal paradigm is that each viewer pay a nominal fee every time that a show is watched. Right now, cable (and satellite) offers the best way to do that with the encrypted digital signals that most cable companies are moving to. Streaming will eventually catch up with the delivery mechanisms of digital cable. Once it does, that will probably be disruptive.

The dirty little secret of the industry

[brokeninside]

Studios keep raising their streaming prices _because_ Netflix is in the DVD business. Disc rentals are kryptonite to the big studios. What they want is to earn money per view. They earn a small, one-time fee when Netflix buys a physical disc. That one disc is then eventually viewed by hundreds if not thousands of viewers over the life of the disc. They'd much rather earn a nominal fee each time a show is viewed. This is one reason Netflix wanted to divest itself of its DVD business, to facilitate negotiations with the content studios.

The other problem they have with Netflix is that it's independent of the physical distribution arms owned by the studios. Time Warner, for example, wants people chained to Time Warner cable. They have an incentive not to license their content to a service which can be used by cable companies that compete with Time Warner.

Re:streaming is just a commodity

[Wolfrider]

--Netflix telephone customer support is US-based (Oregon) - which is the reason I signed up with them in the 1st place (I HATE outsourcing - and wanted to support them for making that conscious decision to keep support in the US.) I'm having some difficulty finding the original /. article that mentioned this, but here's a reference:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/31/netflix-beefing-up-service-center-in-preparation-for-globa-launc/

Re:Netflix needs its own freakin box

[Wolfrider]

" Someone fetch me a 10-year-old child! "

/ paraphrased // hopefully not obscure

Netflix, a Perspective

[DaKong]

My family watches Netflix streaming every day, every night. What we want, when we want, with no commercials. There are no Disney offerings, no Hollywood blockbusters, but I view that as a net positive. My kids don't know who Mickey Mouse is and so don't pester me to buy them Disney crap or take them to Disneyworld. They don't pester me for any merchandized crap. That saves me a ton of $. As a beleaguered parent, I'm grateful for that.

In the meantime I get to discover very fine films and TV shows from indys and overseas that I would otherwise never have been exposed to. I get to watch entire seasons of US TV shows without the incredibly annoying extended commercial breaks or airing delays.

We still have DVDs in our plan, but they've become an afterthought. Why wait for a DVD with the latest from Hollywood's hype machine when streaming scratches the itch without wait, post office BS, or anything else?

Disney, the Hollywood studios, and all the rest of the gang of usual suspects are missing us, and relegating themselves to cultural irrelevance because they refuse to adapt to technology. Good f*ing riddance, guys!