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No Bomb Powerful Enough To Destroy an On-Rushing Asteroid, Sorry Bruce Willis

coondoggie writes "Maybe it's the doom predictions about the end of the Mayan calendar this year, or maybe these guys are obsessed with old Bruce Willis movies. Either way a class of physics students from the University of Leicester decided to evaluate whether or not the premise of Willis' 1998 'Armageddon' movie — where a group of oil drillers is sent by NASA to detonate nuclear devices on an asteroid that threatens to destroy Earth — could actually happen. The students found it would take a bomb about a billion times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth."

352 comments

  1. What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Armagedon is not that old at all.. uhmm.. ohmm...

    Fuck, get of my lawn

    1. Re:What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      Armagedon is not that old at all.. uhmm.. ohmm...

      Fuck, get of my lawn

      If you are talking about the original Armagedon it is most certainly a case of "get off my lawn".

    2. Re:What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fuck, get of my lawn

      You want them to do both at the same time?
      I'll assume the preferred order is in the order written.

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    3. Re:What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Armagedon is not that old at all.. uhmm.. ohmm...

      Fuck, get of my lawn

      But Moonlighting is. Now, get off mine.

      --
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    4. Re:What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Back to the topic. :-)

      Who says you need to demolish it? You just need to deflect the angular momentum to a tangent that doesn't intersect with the Earth's orbit. Right?

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    5. Re:What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by default+luser · · Score: 1

      They did that. If you read the article, you'd see their calculations were for a splitting of the asteroid.

      The REAL reason why we can't recreate this is because the movie makers made the asteroid the size of Texas (assumed 1000km diameter). I'm sure if we were dealing with something more realistic (say,Yucatan impact, 10km asteroid), we might have a chance in hell of stopping it.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

    6. Re:What do you mean OLD Bruce Willis movies by KhabaLox · · Score: 1

      If you read the article,

      Really? Really?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
  2. Quoth North Korea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We have a bomb that big! OoooOOOOOooh!

    1. Re:Quoth North Korea by omnichad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Funny, I thought you were quoting Hollywood. Perhaps The Happening? One of the biggest bombs I've seen in a long time...

    2. Re:Quoth North Korea by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Quoth North Korea: We don't need a bomb for that, our Magnificent Leader will simply melt it with his laser eyes.

    3. Re:Quoth North Korea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that Hollywood bombs explode like a whoopee cushion.

    4. Re:Quoth North Korea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are there lots of Frank Nelson fans in North Korea?

  3. 'One Billion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like a great plot for an action comedy. What is the release date?

  4. A billion times. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The students found it would take a bomb about a billion times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth."

    We have those!

    1. Re:A billion times. by Rei · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We have those!

      Very doubtful. But we could potentially build such a bomb if the Earth depended on it for some reason; the Teller-Ulam configuration scales indefinitely. The problem is it'd be way too massive to get off the ground.

      Of course, these students were simply calculating the (very unrealistic) scenario found in the movie, of the asteroid right about to impact, and of deflection involving splitting it in half and having one half go each way around the Earth. As they note, more realistic deflection scenarios involve hitting it much earlier and simply trying to alter it's trajectory intact (but that's not fitting for Hollywood)

      Also it should be noted that the Tsar Bomba mentioned in the article was deliberately cut down to half of its design yield (replacing the uranium tamper with a lead one) to make it burn cleaner. It was not only the biggest atomic bomb ever detonated on Earth, but also the cleanest per unit of energy output.

      --
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    2. Re:A billion times. by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah and Bruce Willis was in it too, it was called Hudson Hawk.

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      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:A billion times. by jgtg32a · · Score: 2

      If a planet killer asteroid was coming for the earth, I don't think it would be too difficult to get a pass on making an Orion space craft to act as a heavy lifter.

      And I'm not talking about the NASA Orion I'm talking about the DARPA project

    4. Re:A billion times. by f3rret · · Score: 1

      The students found it would take a bomb about a billion times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth."

      We have those!

      Admittedly I did not actually RTFA, but, assuming "the biggest bomb" refers to The Tsar Bomb, then no, no we don't.

      Think the largest nuclear weapons in service today are in the 100 - 500 kT range, with the posibility of dialing them up into the low MT range.

      --
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    5. Re:A billion times. by SlippyToad · · Score: 2, Funny

      OK. I think I've had this discussion before, but maybe people need a fucking refresher on basic newtonian motion.

      BLOWING UP AN ONCOMING ASTEROID will ABSOLUTELY NOT 'MOVE' IT TO EITHER SIDE. My fucking GOD did the entire planet fucking fail basic physics? It WILL guarantee that we are, instead of being slammed with one giant rock, showered with millions of smaller rocks, but WE'LL STILL BE FUCKED SIDEWAYS in that scenario.

      We could, yes, potentially build a really big bomb. It's not the fact that it's too "heavy" that is why it is impractical. It's because IT CAN NEVER, EVER, FUCKING EVER POSSIBLY WORK as a solution to an oncoming asteroid. That's because making a big rock into littler rocks is not how you stop it.

      Diverting the asteroid is a LOT less expensive and though it is disappointingly big hardon-creating explosion-free, (Sorry Mr. Teller, your pyro days are in fact over as I recall) it actually has an advantage over just blowing up the asteroid in that it is a solution created by an adult and not the world's most-respected Beavis-inspiring physicist child who just liked to blow shit up, and that it would work

      Sorry, had to get that one off my chest. Mr. Teller and his pyromaniac fantasies have caused a mighty disturbance in a conversation that needs to be deadly serious. We do not have time for the sniggering little Beavises of the world to fantasize about making great big fire. Jesus.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    6. Re:A billion times. by afidel · · Score: 1

      This is mostly correct, the vast majority of the current US nuclear arsenal is comprised of variants of the B61 with selectable yields between 100-450kt, the remaining large yield weapons are the B83 bombs with a maximum yield of ~2.1MT.

      --
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    7. Re:A billion times. by Outlander+Engine · · Score: 1

      I liked Hudson Hawk you insensitive clod!

    8. Re:A billion times. by Phase+Shifter · · Score: 1

      Diverting the asteroid is a LOT less expensive and though it is disappointingly big hardon-creating explosion-free, (Sorry Mr. Teller, your pyro days are in fact over as I recall) it actually has an advantage over just blowing up the asteroid in that it is a solution created by an adult and not the world's most-respected Beavis-inspiring physicist child who just liked to blow shit up, and that it would work

      Not necessarily. Even if you divert the asteroid from a predicted collision, it's still in an orbit that passes close to Earth's orbit. Unless, of course, you divert it into the moon or other massive target--in which case you do get the hardon-creating explosion the public is looking for.

    9. Re:A billion times. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Except that we've never built anything like that before, so it'd take a lot of time to design, build, and test it. If you have that much time, you'd be better off using an existing rocket and deflecting the asteroid early. Basically, with giant asteroids, if you've stupidly waited until the last minute (perhaps because you stupidly didn't bother to keep an eye out for them in the first place), then you're already screwed.

    10. Re:A billion times. by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      I don't know about this. Depending on the composition of the asteroid, a bomb placed inside might possibly split it in half, and the force of that explosion would cause the two halves to move in opposite directions. If the bomb isn't powerful enough (quite likely with the size of a giant asteroid, and the size of our bombs), it won't cause the asteroid to be broken into "millions of smaller rocks", just two or so (again, this depends on the rock's composition). The problem is that it's unlikely the halves would be pushed apart enough to matter, so the whole thing is certainly quite unrealistic.

      Yes, diverting the asteroid early is obviously a far better scenario. But there's a big problem here: doing this requires that you actually know about the asteroid well ahead of time, and it requires that you take measures well ahead of time to divert it. This requires a lot of funding. We humans are too cheap and stupid to do this. There's no telling how many asteroids are out there that might collide with us in the next two centuries, because we don't put much effort into looking for them (it seems to be mostly amateur astronomers that look for these, and their equipment isn't all that great). Heck, we even know about one sizable asteroid, named Apophis, that's going to make a close fly-by in 2029, and then depending on exactly how the gravitational interaction goes in that fly-by, might come around again in 2036 for a direct 510 megaton impact, but we aren't doing anything at all about it even though that's only 24 years away. Granted, the impact possibility is still quite low, but if we're wrong, we're looking at some pretty catastrophic effects, either tens of millions dead if it hits land, or who knows how many dead if it hits the ocean and causes a massive tsunami.

    11. Re:A billion times. by Rei · · Score: 2

      So many things wrong with your comically angry post. Some of the main ones:

      1) Only asteroid fragments over a certain size make it to the ground. Blow it up enough and yes, it will not make it to the surface. It would add dust, of course, and impart a heating pulse to the surface, but spread out over however long between the furthest-forward pieces from the blast were and the furthest back ones.

      2) Deflecting fragments of the asteroid from a collision course is precisely the point of an explosion, whether you're talking a bunch of small pieces that are now missing, or just two halves.

      3) A bomb can do more than break up an asteroid; it can also move an asteroid, by radiation pressure, direct or indirect through surface heating.

      --
      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    12. Re:A billion times. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BLOWING UP AN ONCOMING ASTEROID will ABSOLUTELY NOT 'MOVE' IT TO EITHER SIDE. My fucking GOD did the entire planet fucking fail basic physics? It WILL guarantee that we are, instead of being slammed with one giant rock, showered with millions of smaller rocks, but WE'LL STILL BE FUCKED SIDEWAYS in that scenario.

      In principle you, if you could use a bomb to split an asteroid down the middle, you could make both halves go around opposite sides of the Earth without violating conservation of momentum or energy. In practice the impractically hard part is getting to actually cleave in half efficiently without wasting a lot of energy on vaporizing or fragmenting it into many pieces.

      Although, if you had the energy to just vaporize the rock and give the tiny fragments some outward velocity, then it could still work even with a symmetric explosion, as long as there is enough time for the cloud of debris to grow larger than Earth before it hits. Maybe some of it will go into orbit around Earth or hit at a later point, but at least that spreads out the atmospheric heating. But this would be impractical, as it takes a lot of energy to fragment or vaporize rock.

      Instead, you can deflect an asteroid with an asymmetric explosion. An explosion near the surface of one side can expel a small piece of mass at high velocity, and apply a small dv to the main part of the asteroid. Momentum will still be conserved, and of course the center of mass will still hit Earth... except now there is no piece of asteroid at the center of mass.

    13. Re:A billion times. by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      How far out realistically would we spot a killer asteroid? I recall some predictions years in advance of near misses. And how many years would it likely take to get a project orion nuclear propulsion working?

    14. Re:A billion times. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BLOWING UP AN ONCOMING ASTEROID will ABSOLUTELY NOT 'MOVE' IT TO EITHER SIDE. My fucking GOD did the entire planet fucking fail basic physics?

      Yourself included, apparently. There's nothing in the movie plot which is inconsistent with conservation of momentum.

    15. Re:A billion times. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK. I think I've had this discussion before, but maybe people need a fucking refresher on basic people skills.

      1. WRITING IN CAPS IS REALLY FUCKING ANNOYING. FIND A BETTER WAY TO GET YOU POINT ACROSS.
      2. Not everyone is a moron.
      3. Acting like you're god isn't helping.
      4. You are much more likely to get people to listen to you if you're not a total dick about it.

    16. Re:A billion times. by Master+Moose · · Score: 1

      Hudson Hawk inspired me to time all of my tasks with Music.

      It takes me 2 Bat out of Hell's to get to work in the morning.

      --
      . . .gone when the morning comes
    17. Re:A billion times. by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      If I recall the movie correctly, it was an asteroid that got knocked out of orbit by something else and went screaming hellbent for Earth, so it wasn't a predicted or noted asteroid. (I could be wrong, it's been a while) So basically it might just as well be an an extra-solar object time-period of warning. I.e.- we're screwed.

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    18. Re:A billion times. by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      Your logical post was much less funny that SlappyToad's, but also much less aggravating to read. :D

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    19. Re:A billion times. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn it Slippy Toad, if you are so much better at orbital mechanics than every one else, why do I have to keep saving you? - Fox McCloud

    20. Re:A billion times. by SlippyToad · · Score: 1

      I don't know about this.

      You are exactly fucking right. YOU DON'T.

      Depending on the composition of the asteroid, a bomb placed inside might possibly split it in half, and the force of that explosion would cause the two halves to move in opposite directions

      And of course we will risk the whole of humanity on someone whose entire understanding of physics comes from watching The Empire Strikes Back.

      Jesus, I already said it so I'm not gonna fucking repeat it.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    21. Re:A billion times. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? What are your credentials? How do you know that a solid iron asteroid isn't going to be split in half by a massive fictional bomb with the two pieces sent in opposite directions? Why should I believe some random asshole on Slashdot?

  5. Woa! by Grindalf · · Score: 0

    That's a chance that we'll have to take! :0)

    --
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  6. not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

    1. Re:not about destroying by ArcherB · · Score: 4, Interesting

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

      Exactly what I was thinking: Define "destroy". Do they mean completely vaporize or just something that will do the job?

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    2. Re:not about destroying by symes · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Indeed. A small nudge, if applied when the asteroid is still some distance from Earth, could have a considerable impact on it's trajectory. That would make an interesting project, simulating the relationship between time to asteroid, payload, asteroid mass and what not to determine how quickly we would need to react.

    3. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also why not do a case study for thresholds where the bomb might be useful. An asteroid that threatens the planet may not be stopped, but something that could wipe out a metropolitan area and cause trillions of dollars of damage might be a size that could be. An asteroid on that scale may do less or no damage if it could be broken into small enough pieces before it hits the atmosphere.

      Also anyone remember that Deep Impact mission with the copper slug slammed into an asteroid some years back? That inert chunk of metal also happened to be very close to the volume and mass of a common nuclear warhead in the U.S. arsenal. (Looking at those numbers, it doesn't appear too random.) It seems somebody was seriously considering the idea.

    4. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a scenario I also read about in the media, but does it really make sense to take care of such small asteroids, or is this just the result of the hype around armageddon? The chance that it hits a metropolitan region is very slim. The chance is 70% that it comes down over water, there is a chance that it will break up and most of the land area is only thinly populated.

    5. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also why not do a case study for thresholds where the bomb might be useful. An asteroid that threatens the planet may not be stopped, but something that could wipe out a metropolitan area and cause trillions of dollars of damage might be a size that could be. An asteroid on that scale may do less or no damage if it could be broken into small enough pieces before it hits the atmosphere.

      Or if it could be deflected onto some other, non-American metropolitan area, right? We all know that's what you mean; just come out and say it.

    6. Re:not about destroying by pantaril · · Score: 2

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

      Indeed drilling a hole to the center of the asteroid and blowing it from inside is inefficient and stupid. The best way would be to aply force to the side of the asteroid, so its trajectory would change to non-coliding with earth. It can be some king of one-time explosion, or it could be small but perpetual force like ion-drive powered space-craft pushing to the side, or even series of mirrors orbiting the asteroid and reflecting sun-shine to its side for prolonged period of time.

      See http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/201232110854436189.html for some interestig ideas.

    7. Re:not about destroying by mosb1000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you'd read the article, you'd know that the calculation was to determine how powerful the explosion would need to be to split the asteroid in half so that the two pieces would pass by the earth. Basically, the same thing that was done in the movie. Only, in their calculation, the explosion occurred when the asteroid was still 8 billion miles away.

    8. Re:not about destroying by arth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed drilling a hole to the center of the asteroid and blowing it from inside is inefficient and stupid. The best way would be to aply force to the side of the asteroid, so its trajectory would change to non-coliding with earth.

      I'd think that for a small body, the two are the same. A reason for drilling a deep hole first would be to get a much more precise vector for pushing the asteroid.
      Sure, you lose a lot of energy that way, but you lose an awful lot with a surface blast too, where more than half the blast force won't hit the asteroid at all. There's no way of making a nuclear explosion into a shaped charge without using the environment to shape it.

    9. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and nothing of value would be lost

    10. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      splitting up to pieces is a bad idea too. Many pieces will (generally speaking) be large enough to cause devastation, their direction will be unpredictable and the chances of getting hit will increase. You want to nudge it, and using atomic bombs for that is a bad idea. Again.

    11. Re:not about destroying by hazem · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Arthur C. Clarke's book, "The Hammer of God" was about this exact topic. It featured all kinds of neat furistic technology, like making a huge detonation in the solar system to emit a huge burst of EM radiation to find dark asteroids, and trying to put a mass driver on an asteroid to nudge it off course. It also had a great depiction of a lunar marathon.

      All in all, I thought it was a pretty enjoyable read.

    12. Re:not about destroying by letherial · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That wouldnt be a good movie.

      Its either.
      A. Sir! we got a astroid that is going to hit earth with in 20 years.
                Good find private, now send up the ION maker and point at it for the next 15 years, that should move it away to safely pass by

      OR
      B. Sir we got a asteroid that will hit us in the next few months
                Good find private, we will nuke the bastard, but first we must make some realy cool ships, get a few heroes and they can go drill the hole in the asteroid and really get it good.

      A is good if it realy happens, B is good for the movie theater...

    13. Re:not about destroying by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

      Indeed drilling a hole to the center of the asteroid and blowing it from inside is inefficient and stupid.

      It was a Michael Bay movie. So what else could it be?

      There is hardly a scene in the film that makes sense.

      They needed an excuse to use oil roughnecks IN SPACE! and a deadline, and a bomb.

      "Deep Impact" was only slightly more plausible. Morgan Freeman and Robert Duvall were impressive, the rest, Spielbergian cloyingly cute kids and family values. So actually I'd much rather watch "Armageddon" again, dumb as it is.

    14. Re:not about destroying by Soluzar · · Score: 1

      I thought the same thing. The objective for that movie wa to split it into two pieces with an explosion that woul deflect both pieces away from a collision course with Earth.

    15. Re:not about destroying by 1u3hr · · Score: 0

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

      Yeah, you got it wrong, like all the other idiots who promoted you as "insightful".

      from THE FUCKING ARTICLE:

      Using the measurements and properties of the asteroid as stated in the film, the formula revealed that 800 trillion terajoules of energy would be required to split the asteroid in two with both pieces clearing the planet. However, the total energy output of Big Ivan "only comes to 418,000 terajoules".

      Don't judge an article by the Slashdot headline.

    16. Re:not about destroying by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      That would make an interesting project, simulating the relationship between time to asteroid, payload, asteroid mass and what not to determine how quickly we would need to react.

      Interesting project to amuse a physics undergrad for a weekend, I guess.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    17. Re:not about destroying by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

       
      Can't remember where I read it, but the result of splitting up a comet by detonation could be even more catastrophic to the inhabitants on Planet Earth

      The reason they say was that many of the split-up fragments, hundreds (or even thousands) of them, raining down on Earth, would create even more damage to our planet, than one single M-F hit
       
      As I am not a planetary scientist, I dunno if TFA that I read made any sense or not
       

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    18. Re:not about destroying by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Sure, you lose a lot of energy that way, but you lose an awful lot with a surface blast too, where more than half the blast force won't hit the asteroid at all.

      Use something like a penetrating anti-bunker bomb, only with a nuclear warhead (there are bombs like this, and the surface material should be soft). Let it explode slightly underground. A significant mass gets vaporized, and it escapes through the hole on the top. The crater just being formed acts as a nozzle. An inefficient one, but with a nuke, you have a lot of energy to spend. Using the surrounding asteroid mass as the reactive matter increases the impulse, compared to a contact detonation or a proximity detonation.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    19. Re:not about destroying by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You want to nudge it, and using atomic bombs for that is a bad idea. Again.

      Why?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    20. Re:not about destroying by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      http://xtiner18.edublogs.org/2010/09/18/armageddon-physics/

      I did a quick search and found better analysis of the movie. The students fail, even if they pass the class.

    21. Re:not about destroying by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

      It's you. The class did model it correctly: destroying the asteroid by splitting it into 2 halves, and nudging them so that each passes the earth on opposite sides.

      In reality, the picture is actually much more pessimistic than modeled: you wouldn't manage getting exactly two pieces.
      If you get more than 2 pieces, the middle pieces would still hit earth and wreak quite some havoc.
      If you do manage to get only 2 pieces, but they are not equal sized, the lighter one would clear the earth by a bigger margin than needed, but the heavier one would still smack into it.

    22. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      You can imagine the standard assumption to be that an asteroid is very hard, and that an atomic bomb would mainly give it a good shove that does not break the integrity of the asteroid, and that the heat can be neglected.

      Compare instead an asteroid to be a loose snowball and the bomb to be mainly good at breaking it up and heating it.

    23. Re:not about destroying by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Indeed drilling a hole to the center of the asteroid and blowing it from inside is inefficient and stupid. The best way would be to aply force to the side of the asteroid, so its trajectory would change to non-coliding with earth.

      In order to change the trajectory, you need reaction mass. In case of a surface blast, all the reaction mass you'd get would be shrapnel from the bomb itself (tiny mass as compared to the asteroid), so these shrapnel would need to fly away from the asteroid real fast in order to have any noticable effect at all.

      With a center blast, splitting the asteroid in two, each half would be reaction mass for the other. The bomb would only need to supply the energy to separate them, but not the mass.

    24. Re:not about destroying by Rei · · Score: 5, Funny

      Exactly what I was thinking: Define "destroy". Do they mean completely vaporize or just something that will do the job?

      Yes, if only there was a way to know what the students meant, like, oh I don't know, reading the article?

      --
      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    25. Re:not about destroying by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

      Well, one thing we also know, coming down over water isn't exactly harmless either. I'd imagine the tsunami's from such a case, wouldn't be much prettier of an outcome, and there's no shortage of metropolitan areas near coastlines around the world.

    26. Re:not about destroying by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

      But, but... I like Nintendo... Why did they have to set their office right down the street from microsoft... why????

    27. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paint it.

      Captcha: missions

    28. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even if you get two pieces, it might not help. You hope for a "right piece" and a "left piece" missingon opposite sides of the planet.

      You might ironically get a "front piece" and a "rear piece" crashing into the planet a few seconds apart.

    29. Re:not about destroying by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the simplest ways to slowly nudge an asteroid off course is simply to have your spacecraft hover near it, with its (low thrust/high ISP) jets askew (instead of pointing straight at the asteroid). You don't need to be physically attached to an asteroid to tow it; gravity can be your "cable".

      Another even slower but potentially even simpler way proposed to move an asteroid out of an intercept course is to "paint" it (basically, detonate one or more bombs of reflective dust) on particular locations and use the change in solar radiation pressure to do the work for you.

      --
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    30. Re:not about destroying by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I assume everyone here has played around with the Earth Impact Effects Program?

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      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    31. Re:not about destroying by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Well, nudging it with sufficient time is the real course of action.

      They ran the numbers to do it Hollywood-style, to make a 600-mile wide asteroid blow itself into pieces such that most cleared the Earth's diameter with seconds to go.

      It's like estimating the energy needed to blow up a planet, some 200 million tons of matter converted to energy, which would still take hours, and comparing it to idiocy like in Star Wars where the pieces are suddenly traveling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, which is many, many magnitudes more.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    32. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      But the asteroid will always be rotating a bit so painting won't help, while a massdriver installed on the surface can be made to pulsate on the rythm of the rotation so stopping the rotation is not necessary(and probably very hard)

    33. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're talking about the difference between reality and a movie. A Michael Bay movie at that. The class didn't do it wrong. They just started with a ridiculous premise (e.g., that a 1000km-diameter asteroid wouldn't already be known).

    34. Re:not about destroying by Ironhandx · · Score: 2

      Hollywood accountants did the original math. Its the same people that manage to make 200-250m in total expenses cause a movie that makes 1 billion lose money.

      Its called the "fudge it until its believable to the idiots we're dealing with and most beneficial to us" branch of mathematics. They would have needed more props and more side characters if they'd had more bombs and they didn't want to take away from Bruce's star light.

    35. Re:not about destroying by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You can imagine the standard assumption to be that an asteroid is very hard, and that an atomic bomb would mainly give it a good shove that does not break the integrity of the asteroid, and that the heat can be neglected.

      Compare instead an asteroid to be a loose snowball and the bomb to be mainly good at breaking it up and heating it.

      Except that asteroids are not loose snowballs. Even a nuke is too weak to break up anything larger than, say, half a kilometer into pieces - or rather, an point explosion is a rather inefficient way of using that amount of energy. And even if it somehow got split, its own gravity would hold it together.

      (This is, BTW, why the Death Star blowing up Alderaan into pieces in Star Wars is a load of crap - you can see rather solid pieces of matter flying away from the explosion, but the scale doesn't match. The kind of energy capable of instantly propelling a planet-sized load of matter at a few thousand kilometers per second by means of a central explosion with a shock wave would turn the whole thing into plasma instead. (I guess that mentioning that the whole cloud would be rather poor in visible spectrum is a minor bickering at this point.))

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    36. Re:not about destroying by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      But the asteroid will always be rotating a bit so painting won't help

      Yes, it will. The details of course depend on the particular asteroid, but even painting the entire surface white will alter its trajectory.

      Also, really, pretty much any method proposed for spacecraft acceleration would work for asteroids as well. Laser-pumped? Check. Solar sail? Check. Even some of the less commonly known ones like a magnetic field generator to repel the solar wind would work. It all depends on how big you're willing to go and how quickly you need to move the thing.

      --
      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    37. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about basically mining the asteroid to peaces of a safe size (say 0.5 meter across) and shooting them out with the mass driver, with enough velocity to never get back ? Could be used to nudge the orbit & get a quite safe widely dispensed debris cloud, that should just burn up if it partially hits the earth.

      Of course, asteroid structure permitting.

    38. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have enough time in advance it is probably irrelevant in which direction you push the asteroid. Therfore you can paint it around one end of the axis that has at least some sun on it.

    39. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      Indeed I was mixing up comets and asteroids. I was also thinking of 'not too large', not larger than a km.

       

    40. Re:not about destroying by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was thinking: Define "destroy". Do they mean completely vaporize or just something that will do the job?

      Yes, if only there was a way to know what the students meant, like, oh I don't know, reading the article?

      TFA says "destroy" but movie clearly intends "split". The students got it wrong - but so did the movie. Movie assumes the resultant two pieces would clear the Earth on opposite sides - as shown on the briefing simulation video (after the "Roadrunner Thrust Move" comment), but if the split was perpendicular to the asteroid's vector then both halves would then collide with the planet. The desired outcome was pure chance.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    41. Re:not about destroying by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly what I was thinking: Define "destroy". Do they mean completely vaporize or just something that will do the job?

      What they mean is "break an asteroid the size of Ceres into two pieces, both of which would miss the planet, assuming the asteroid (the size of Ceres) were only noticed heading towards Earth at about the time the guys in the movie noticed it".

      And while it is no doubt true that it would take that much energy to break Ceres in half if it were that far away, this says nothing at all about more, shall we say, "realistic" scenarios involving asteroids small enough to actually get that close before we notice them.

      Or for that matter, asteroids that big as far away as we'd notice them....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    42. Re:not about destroying by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      "Deep Impact" was only slightly more plausible. Morgan Freeman and Robert Duvall were impressive, the rest, Spielbergian cloyingly cute kids and family values.

      The best moment in that movie was when Jenny Lerner (Téa Leoni) found the online article for ELE (Extinction Level Event) and figured out what the President (Freeman) was actually talking about during their "meeting" and that the planet was fucked. The dumbest part (and there were many) was anything having to do with (apparently) Virginia geography and Virginia Beach (I live here - er - there).

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    43. Re:not about destroying by Albinoman · · Score: 1

      Read it again. The article is actually for a distance of the radius of the Earth plus 400 miles, which is just under a total of 3,500 miles out. Pretty much the putting a paper bag over our head distance. The article states it would have to be 8 billion miles out to work.

    44. Re:not about destroying by Almost-Retired · · Score: 1

      Also why not do a case study for thresholds where the bomb might be useful. An asteroid that threatens the planet may not be stopped, but something that could wipe out a metropolitan area and cause trillions of dollars of damage might be a size that could be. An asteroid on that scale may do less or no damage if it could be broken into small enough pieces before it hits the atmosphere.

      I don't believe even the no physical damage case to be exactly benign. Breaking it into cubic foot sized pieces, some of those would survive to the surface. The real damages in this case would still be from the heat pulse into our atmosphere. If you think this years hottest July on record, at 3.3F above the long term average, was bad, you haven't seen anything yet. That of course would be followed in a few months by the winter created by the dust, which by changing the albedo of the planet, might take several years to return to some semblance of the new normal. It may well be sufficient that in 1000 years, this planet may have a new dominant species.

      Also anyone remember that Deep Impact mission with the copper slug slammed into an asteroid some years back? That inert chunk of metal also happened to be very close to the volume and mass of a common nuclear warhead in the U.S. arsenal. (Looking at those numbers, it doesn't appear too random.) It seems somebody was seriously considering the idea.

      I wondered about that myself. Its encouraging to see that someone else made that connection. However, I have my doubts that one of our nukes could survive that "burying it in the asteroid impact" without either going off prematurely, or failing to trigger once it had stopped at the target depth.

      Encouraging thoughts, not!

      Cheers, Gene

    45. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      I disagree. It's not about whether there is an effect but whether the effect is big enough. And I don't believe solar radiation has a significant effect, especially when an asteroid is coming straight at you.

    46. Re:not about destroying by newslash.formatblows · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I thought it was funny in the movie that they had two huge pieces practically grazing the Earth. For a real asteroid that could still be undetected (few km in diameter), that would be fine. For one "the size of Texas" and so solid that it could break drill bits left and right, the tidal forces when it came that close would probably mean high tide in Denver.

    47. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new here...

    48. Re:not about destroying by Minwee · · Score: 2

      A small nudge, if applied when the asteroid is still some distance from Earth, could have a considerable impact on it's trajectory.

      I disagree. It's not about whether there is an effect but whether the effect is big enough.

      Actually, that's the whole point. If the effect isn't big enough, you just aren't applying it early enough.

    49. Re:not about destroying by foniksonik · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't you mean:

      "Siri, we got an asteroid that will hit us!"

      "I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that. Would you like me to search the web?"

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    50. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 0

      You mean like, very very far from the sun where it's dark outside?

    51. Re:not about destroying by necro81 · · Score: 1

      In order to change the trajectory, you need reaction mass. In case of a surface blast, all the reaction mass you'd get would be shrapnel from the bomb itself

      In the case of a nuclear weapon detonation, there is practically no shrapnel left. There is a shockwave of vaporized bomb material that acts in a similar way. Most of the output of a nuclear weapon, however, is a whole freaking lot of electromagnetic radiation across the whole spectrum. (On earth it is this energy release that produces most of the building-crushing shockwave. Indiana Jones is immune.) This radiation would vaporize some amount of the asteroid's surface, and that expelled material is what would provide the impulse. A secondary effect would be to heat large swaths of the surface (less than it would take to vaporize) really quickly, which would cause the surface to fracture, leaving the main asteroid body with less mass, which may or may not be significant later on. Finally, all the remaining hot surface emits infrared radiation as it cools, which would provide a small but continuous thrust like a radiometer.

      All that still probably wouldn't be enough to deflect an asteroid of lethal size.

    52. Re:not about destroying by Rei · · Score: 1

      And I don't believe solar radiation has a significant effect,

      Thank goodness science is about what random slashdotters intuitively believe. It'd be a crazy world if, you know, it relied on peer-reviewed papers.

      --
      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    53. Re:not about destroying by Rei · · Score: 1

      As a side curiosity, when, in humanity's future, do you think it'll be before the first asteroid gets turned into an art project (artistically painted/decorated across its entire surface or whatnot)?

      --
      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    54. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also had to do it on a specific fault line in the asteroid, anywhere else and it wouldn't work. So this tells me that it was more like two asteroids that were fused together at some point, and they were just unfusing them.

    55. Re:not about destroying by camperdave · · Score: 1

      They were trying to replicate the conditions in the movie to see if it could happen in real life: ie, cracking an asteroid the size of Texas in half and having both halves miss the Earth by 400 miles.

      Unfortunately... myth busted
      ...along with the planet.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    56. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA? that's crazytalk!

    57. Re:not about destroying by camperdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not to mention killing off a great deal of the oceanic plankton, the chief source of oxygen for the planet.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    58. Re:not about destroying by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      I always assumed that, while the inner core and perhaps much of the surface of Alderaan was indeed vaporized into plasma or somesuch, the topmost outer crust - perhaps the highest mountains - were instead merely fractured, having been a bit too far away from the original blast but shattered by the force of the exploding plasma. That never looked like enough debris to be a whole planet to me anyway.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    59. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

      Destroying an asteroid would be worse, the shattered pieces would bombard the Earth with hundreds (or more) small impacts instead of a single large impact. Do you want to get hit with buckshot, or a slug? Either way you are just as dead. With a single large impact SOMETHING would survive, but with a shotgun blast, who knows.

      If caught early enough an asteroid's course could certainly be altered with today's technology.

    60. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ponder.... even if you did manage to split an asteroid that large apart - would gravity pull it back together?

      Better yet, would a nuclear explosion disrupt the asteroids magnetic field - what would the impact of that be? Maybe gravity is a side effect of that field...

      I also wonder what these students used for a model.. I mean, size, composition. Who knows what they used to determine the impact of the explosion.. was it dirt, was it iron, was it something more brittle.. did they take into account different strenghts of structures formed in space vs those formed here on earth.. blah blah blah

      Sounds about as fictional as the movie.

    61. Re:not about destroying by Pope · · Score: 1

      This is, BTW, why the Death Star blowing up Alderaan into pieces in Star Wars is a load of crap - you can see rather solid pieces of matter flying away from the explosion, but the scale doesn't match.

      Or, you know, it was a sci-fi fantasy movie made in the 1970s and they did what the technology allowed.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    62. Re:not about destroying by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      It's a little-known fact that once you get far enough from the sun, the photons just disappear! The effect may be less, but the requirements are also less. And the effect doesn't just last an instant - trajectory changes would continue to happen for the duration of its flight (or until the paint wore off).

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    63. Re:not about destroying by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      When you split the asteroid in half, you are using a lot of energy just to break it apart. That energy would be better spent changing the vector of the asteroid. A surface blast would also waste a lot of the energy, as noted. One solution might be to detonate the bomb at an intermediate point between the surface and the middle. Ideally, it would break off a reasonable amount, and eject it at a decent velocity. If the asteroid is spinning, this would change the center of gravity and might cause more pieces to fall off. Also, instead of straddling the Earth with the pieces it might make more sense to speed up or slow down the asteroid so it reaches the Earths orbit before or after the Earth is where it crosses.

      Maybe the class can figure that out next weekend.

    64. Re:not about destroying by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Exactly right. Except even the largest bomb we have (or rather, the largest that we, the public, know about), has only 1/200000th the power needed to do it.

      Well, actually, it is only ALMOST exactly right. It only works for the case where the trajectory of the asteroid would bring it to hit Earth dead center. If the trajectory was such that it would "only" graze the Earth, then you'd be better off with an off-center explosion that would drive the larger mass enough to clear the planet.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    65. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      TFA says "destroy" but movie clearly intends "split". The students got it wrong

      No, the summary got it wrong. The students got it right.

      "A series of assumptions must be made due to limited information in the film. First, the asteroid is approximated as a spherical object 1000km in diameter (the asteroid is quoted as being the size of Texas [1]) that splits into two equal sized hemispheres."

      Here's the link to their paper:
      https://physics.le.ac.uk/journals/index.php/pst/article/viewFile/390/243

    66. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. A small nudge, if applied when the asteroid is still some distance from Earth, could have a considerable impact on it's trajectory. That would make an interesting project, simulating the relationship between time to asteroid, payload, asteroid mass and what not to determine how quickly we would need to react.

      Maybe they could then submit their brief paper to a tech news site. Perhaps the "Layer 8" writer for Network World, for example. Who would then post a crap summary to slashdot in order to drive up views on his column.

      In fact, that sounds kind of familiar. I wonder why....
      https://physics.le.ac.uk/journals/index.php/pst/article/viewFile/390/243

    67. Re:not about destroying by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Look at the speed of the debris. The energy required to give it that amount of kinetic energy would vaporize everything in an instant.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    68. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And you have worked out the math on this, or are you just pulling shit out of your ass?

    69. Re:not about destroying by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Seems they failed to grasp a basic plot point of one of my favorite movies: they never set out to destroy it, they deflected it.

      They mapped the sucker, drilled and dropped a bomb down deep, and split the sucker. That is feasible, and the size of the bomb, beyond a certain threshold, isn't really relevant as it would only affect how far away you needed to detonate it to get enough seperation to miss the Earth.

      Really then the more important consideration is the composition materials of the asteroid, from an energy propagation standpoint; ie, loosely packed dust/debris would absorb more of the blow without seperating, thus still smacking the planet.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    70. Re:not about destroying by dywolf · · Score: 1

      the gravity tow always amuses me.
      1) it'd be incredibly slow
      2) talking about an incredibly huge fuel as cargo requirement
      3) knowledge/maintenance of position with sufficient accuracy to not be wasting time

      Better off just anchoring your low thrust high ISP engine on the appropriate side and turning the entire thing into a "spacecraft", ala the ice chunks from Saturn in Asimov's The Martian Way. Same or reduced cargo requirement, more direct (and larger) application of force, simpler engineering requirements.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    71. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, we are talking about destroying Bruce Willis here, right?

    72. Re:not about destroying by cusco · · Score: 1

      Many asteroids have moons orbiting around them, and one actually appears to be two fragments in orbit around each other. Split the thing and you would most likely have two big chunks that co-orbit, unless they were disrupted by a pass near a planet.

      Something the size of Ceres is too small to have its own magnetic field unless it's mostly nickel-iron, at which point we're screwed anyway. No, gravity is not a side effect of a magnetic field.

      Several asteroids have been visited by probes that passed close enough to estimate their density pretty well. Apparently they vary from 'loose rubble pile' to 'solid chunk of rock'. Haven't read the paper so don't know which way they went.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    73. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A better story in the sense that the author has his physicist character providing back-of-envelope calculations is Nemesis by astronomer Bill Napier.

    74. Re:not about destroying by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 2

      No, it's called fudging it until the only people who care that's it's inaccurate are a handful of pedantic, pretentious geeks. Blockbusters are about excitement, they aren't math documentaries.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    75. Re:not about destroying by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      The IRS should care but the Hollywood execs are too bloody dirty to get caught without alibis.

    76. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly what I was thinking: Define "destroy". Do they mean completely vaporize or just something that will do the job?

      Yes, if only there was a way to know what the students meant, like, oh I don't know, reading the article?

      Excuse me, could you please explain this "reading the article" thing to which you refer to the slashdot audience please?

    77. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is it me or did the class get it wrong, it was never about destroying an asteroid, it was about splitting it up in pieces or nudging it out of the earth direction

      There are major problems with both appraoches.

      Nudging it puts it on a new course, which may still collide with Earth at some point in the future. This needs to be plotted and checked. A very tiny (comparatively) nudge is all that is needed if you apply the force very early, but by the time we detect a problem, it's too late to use a gentle approach.

      Spitting it up results in multiple large chunks, each of which can still cause a lot of damage. Even if you can completely pulverize a rock, reducing it to fine gravel, if a lot of it hits the atmosphere, it can cause problems as all that mass enters into the atmosphere, heats up, and that heat is added to the ambient air. Add enough heat, and you turn the atmosphere into a convection oven. Add a huge amount of very fine particles, and you can block the sun's light and create a "nuclear winter" scenario.

    78. Re:not about destroying by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      This is Slashdot; we don't do such things. You should know this already, having a low six-digit UID.

    79. Re:not about destroying by tokul · · Score: 1

      It will be to late to nudge it, when our current space tech reaches it. Impact would have to split it to the point where debris can be destroyed in atmosphere with hope that it does not cause another ice age. With bigger objects our chances for doing it without long term impact on biosphere are very low.

    80. Re:not about destroying by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'm a little ignorant about the details of a mass driver, but don't they require energy to actually shoot the pieces of mass away? Unless you're getting the energy from the asteroid's material itself, if you have that much energy stored up, wouldn't it be easier to use some other method, such as ion engines, to push the asteroid directly, instead of bothering to carve piece after piece from the asteroid?

    81. Re:not about destroying by superdave80 · · Score: 1
      They didn't get it wrong, FTFA:

      First, the asteroid is approximated as a spherical object 1000km in diameter (the asteroid is quoted as being the size of Texas) that splits into two equal sized hemispheres.

    82. Re:not about destroying by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Don't be ridiculous. Seattle's a great city. Its largest downside is that Microsoft is located there, but it'd really suck to lose the city otherwise. If an asteroid needs to strike an American city, I vote for Phoenix. The only thing of value that would be lost is an Intel fab.

    83. Re:not about destroying by leptons · · Score: 1

      "the asteroid would need to be split at almost the exact point that it could feasibly be detected at 8 billion miles, the students said"

      The distance from the earth to the sun is only 92 MILLION miles. I think their estimate of 8 billion miles is probably a little bit off.. and maybe so is the rest of their math.

    84. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what they might have meant? After all, I couldn't possibly use the clever device of knowledge you proposed to advance my understanding of the situation at hand.

    85. Re:not about destroying by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      For a small enough body, the drilling itself would contribute to pushing the asteroid away. That drilled material is being expelled after all (either mechanically or vapourized by laser).

    86. Re:not about destroying by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      That's the distance the pieces would miss the earth by. Here are the relavent paragraphs for the reading impaired such as yourself:

      "A series of assumptions must be made due to limited information in the film. First, the asteroid is approximated as a spherical object 1000km in diameter (the asteroid is quoted as being the size of Texas) that splits into two equal sized hemispheres. The asteroid in the film reaches a clearance either side of the Earth of 400 miles (640km) which is the assumed value for our calculation," according to the student paper "Could Bruce Willis Save the World?"

      The students also said scientists would have to detect the asteroid much earlier if there were any real chance splitting the asteroid before it hit Earth. In the movie the explosions were to split the monster rock so it could pass around the Earth. On top of this, the asteroid would need to be split at almost the exact point that it could feasibly be detected at 8 billion miles, the students said.

    87. Re:not about destroying by cusco · · Score: 1

      Apparently there is a way to make a nuclear blast into some sort of shaped charge. The final iteration of Project Orion used that capability in its planning, which is why it is still classified to this day. Source: book by Freeman Dyson's son George called 'Project Orion: The True Story of the Atomic Spaceship'.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    88. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the simplest ways to slowly nudge an asteroid off course is simply to have your spacecraft hover near it, with its (low thrust/high ISP) jets askew (instead of pointing straight at the asteroid). You don't need to be physically attached to an asteroid to tow it; gravity can be your "cable".

      Another even slower but potentially even simpler way proposed to move an asteroid out of an intercept course is to "paint" it (basically, detonate one or more bombs of reflective dust) on particular locations and use the change in solar radiation pressure to do the work for you.

      We could solve the illegal alien problem and save the world. Go painters go!

    89. Re:not about destroying by torkus · · Score: 1

      Your idea is based on the assumption that the asteroid is *solid* and there is somewhere you can push against or chain down to. The gravity tow gives a method of moving an asteroid without having to touch it and could work regardless of the object's solidity.

      For your specific points

      1) Yep. You don't move an asteroid quickly.
      2) Yep. Exactly the same if you were pushing the asteroid too. Both the spacecraft and asteroid move in tandem in either situation (thus identical delta v). Basic physics says the energy expenditure is identical.
      3) Yep. A basic laser rangefinder and feedback control loop are part of scientific equipment, i'm sure we could adapt *something* to the job.

      So despite being correct on all three points, I'm going to have to call your conclusion invalid. While it makes better movies, it doesn't work as well in RL.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    90. Re:not about destroying by torkus · · Score: 2

      Google Nuclear bunker buster.

      They might not burrow into solid iron particularly well but loose rock or even meters of concrete don't stand a chance.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    91. Re:not about destroying by torkus · · Score: 1

      It's not reaction mass that is the problem, it's the energy budget to move it. Splitting the rock would consume a large amount of energy by itself. Then you still have the gravitational attraction between the halves which would reduce your delta v by some appreciable amount - unsure how much but we're talking substantial mass so it might wind up being greater than the momentum imparted by any nuclear blast we're capable of.

      As another reply stated, it's much easier to use a small chunk of the asteroid, vaporized, are your reaction mass. Plus this way you could, in theory, have multiple detonations over time instead of one all-or-nothing detonation.

      This all assumes you manage to split the asteroid and/or move it...not just fracture it into a handful of chunks that don't have any real change in direction.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    92. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no way of making a nuclear explosion into a shaped charge without using the environment to shape it.

      Oh really?

    93. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a side curiosity, when, in humanity's future, do you think it'll be before the first asteroid gets turned into an art project (artistically painted/decorated across its entire surface or whatnot)?

      That will happen sometime after the first advertisement on the Moon.

    94. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      I'll clarify how I'm doing just a bit better than guessing. It's not accurate but here goes:
      imagine you're using the sun to transfer impulse to deflect the comet and assume a constant speed of the comet.
      Now the force is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the sun, so the total transferred impulse will be an integral of x**-2 between start(S, large) and end distance(E, short).
      That is proportional to 1/E - 1/S. You can't gain much by starting earlier , the limit will be 1/E for an infinite starting distance

      Now the angle of deflection, and thus the impulse you need to transfer should be smaller if the comet is still far away, but my guess is this would also be inversely proportional to the distance(double the distance, half the angle). In other words, it shouldn't matter much if E is closer by. I'm cutting a few corners but the idea I get from this is you can't gain much by increasing E or S.

    95. Re:not about destroying by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Also, really, pretty much any method proposed for spacecraft acceleration would work for asteroids as well.

      Quite likely, for asteroids as it is for spacecraft, detonating a bunch of nuclear bombs near it is the cheapest way of changing its course. That is, untill we learn how to produce anti-matter in big amounts, and pack it.

    96. Re:not about destroying by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      If you don't dig all the way into the center of the asteroid, you may not lose so much energy. It can get into the point where the lost energy is more than compensated by the mass of the things your are throwing away (at a smaller speed), and the momentum actualy increases.

    97. Re:not about destroying by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      The size of the chunk you use as reaction mass vary with the size of the bomb you are detonating (and the asteroid, everything depends on the features of the asteroid). If you have a big enough bomb, the best way is to break it in two (for a centered hit). But, of course, we don't have a big enough bomb, and would take a decade to move the bombs to the asteroid, and we'd need to decide who would actualy do the job...

      About gravity atraction, whatever mass you decide to use, you must give it enough energy that it doesn't fall back into the rest of the asteroid. That means, you give it escape velocity.

    98. Re:not about destroying by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      There are 3 major limiting factors: Distance from the sun; mass of the asteroid; and time. What you're forgetting about is the value of compounding effects of small numbers over time. Currently, the best system we have for making spaceships reach a significant fraction of c is a solar sail, a propulsion system with one of the lower accelerations, but with the benefit of being able to run for years. This is just a much smaller, much simpler solar sail (which has none of the problems current designs have suffered from). So the controlling factors to focus on are: Is the asteroid small enough for it to work; and do we have enough time for it to work? If you're planning on using this system, one or two years is a woefully short time span.

      Besides, the effect has already been observed.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    99. Re:not about destroying by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      You seem to miss the fact that he is talking about Hollywood accountants not Hollywood writers !

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
    100. Re:not about destroying by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      I'm doing this from scratch so I'm sure I'm forgetting much but my argument was only about accumulation of small effects. If an object flies towards the sun, the amount of impulse, or energy it will capture will be proportional to the inverse square of the distance, and my conclusion was that if you accumulate this over 1 year, or 10 or 100(because you spotted it so much earlier) , it will not make a lot of difference. This will apply to painting an asteroid , putting a clever mirror on it to deflect light, or putting a solar sail on it. This reasoning does not apply to an asteroid following a roughly circular orbit. It's a dimensional argument. I don't need to know the numbers for it. Another example would be : if an asteroid has 10x bigger radius it can be spotted from 10 times further away. If it's coming at you that means you have 10 times more time. But the object is also 1000 times heavier. So is it harder to deflect or not? I'll think about that tomorrow.

    101. Re:not about destroying by hawk · · Score: 1

      Yeah.

      To blow up a planet like that, you'd need immense power. In fact, you'd need a ship the size of a moon to pull it off . . .

      oh, never mind . . .

      hawk

    102. Re:not about destroying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Enjoyable read indeed. And also chilling: the first attempt to detonate is sabotaged by a bunch of religious fundamentalists who believe it is the will of god for Earth to be thwacked and his will should not be thwarted (no, I don;t have a lisp...but thanks for asking).

      "Deep Impact" was the better film (and credited as being based on Clarke's book) , even if still in the cheesy-and-syrupy category.

    103. Re:not about destroying by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      I figured that the MF was moving through the debris, and/or the debris was moving because of secondary motion i.e. the planet's rotation. If the interior of the planet was suddenly gone the rotation of the outer crust could flight it off at wild speeds, especially if there's a moon such as we have to act as a gravity slingshot.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    104. Re:not about destroying by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Go back to school and learn your physics.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  7. Easy now.. by theheff · · Score: 1

    I'm not exactly for challenging the Department of "Defense" on this one.

  8. Nothing new by GauteL · · Score: 1

    It has been well known we can't just blow it up for a while. However all we need is to bump it off course. Something a very powerful nuclear bomb may be able to do

    1. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, just get an archeologist, a reporter and a military commander on a shuttle and they'll fix it with two very small tactical nukes.

    2. Re:Nothing new by tftp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You drill a hole in the asteroid and insert a nuclear device. Do not seal the hole. Explode the device. You get a volcano. Asteroid's material becomes the reaction mass (largely gases and small rocks.) Relatively small mass * relatively high speed = decent momentum. Repeat until satisfied. Call this project "Noiro."

    3. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or you could just paint one side of it white and let the sun push the asteroid away, but that doesn't include any explosions.

    4. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could just paint one side of it white and let the sun push the asteroid away, but that doesn't include any explosions.

      This only works when the asteroid does not keep rotating.

    5. Re:Nothing new by rts008 · · Score: 2

      Perfect excuse to develop and deploy Orion Drives, IMHO.
      I've been curious...

      The problem has been detecting it in time.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    6. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It'll still work, but slower.

    7. Re:Nothing new by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 1

      paint the whole thing white and hope [directly away from the sun] is the right direction.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    8. Re:Nothing new by Minwee · · Score: 1

      Or you could just paint one side of it white and let the sun push the asteroid away, but that doesn't include any explosions.

      This only works when the asteroid does not keep rotating.

      Not quite right. That only works when the sun isn't orbiting the asteroid.

    9. Re:Nothing new by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or better yet, say that it's just too expensive to bother with, and do nothing. Engage in a public program of portraying any efforts to deflect the asteroid as "socialism". Call this project "Nero".

    10. Re:Nothing new by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      As you may know, E=MCC, but why do the expensive Mass to Energy conversion at all? Just get out to the asteroid belt, nudge a few into Lunar orbit, and start the mining operations. The point isn't to mine the damn things though, we just do that for science, and because it's a great way to get raw material not trapped in a gravity well... The point is to use conservation of angular momentum to make a really huge sling shot. Shoot a few off like well aimed pool cues to deflect or grav-tow incoming threats.

      What's that you say? It will take a long time to do such a thing? Well, we literally have all the time in the world...

    11. Re:Nothing new by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      You want relatively large mass * relatively low speed (but still enough to escape). That's the better use of your nuke.

  9. Bruce still has a shot by erikkemperman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The biggest bomb ever detonated on earth" is a damn sight smaller than the biggest one ever built... Just sayin'.

    --
    Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    1. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The biggest one ever detonated, the so called "Tsar Bomba", was 50 megatons of TNT. It could have been made 100 MT, but was scaled back to reduce fallout, and was therefore a very clean bomb for its size.
      There was however no point in building bombs of this size, so no one has attempted it since, opting instead for clusters of smaller bombs to carpet an area or using modern targeting to accurately take out small targets with great precision,
      Bombs that big where shere lunacy and just a demonstration of power.

    2. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would we detonate a bomb on earth, a bomb large enough to shift an asteroid's trajectory, anyway?

    3. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would we detonate a bomb on earth, a bomb large enough to shift an asteroid's trajectory, anyway?

      To fight global warming by nudging earth away from the sun?

    4. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Tore+S+B · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, there was a real, sensible (as things go in the field of nuclear deterrent) reason for them: The USSR did not at the time have anything that could deliver a payload with precision. Plus, they used big and slow bombers, which made it possible to intercept them. Thus, they employed a lesson from Ken Thompson in the future: "When in doubt, use brute force". :)

      The design was not scaled down as such - it was a 100MT bomb; they simply substituted lead for U-238 in the tamper.

      --
      toresbe
    5. Re:Bruce still has a shot by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      why would we detonate a bomb on earth, a bomb large enough to shift an asteroid's trajectory, anyway?

      To fight global warming by nudging earth away from the sun?

      To be fair, a nuclear winter would probably do wonders to offset climate change... I welcome one for the improved skiing conditions.

    6. Re:Bruce still has a shot by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

      Ugh. The moment we try that Im moving to Canada.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    7. Re:Bruce still has a shot by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      You're wrong. Just sayin'.

      "The biggest bomb ever detonated on earth" is the biggest one ever built - the full yield version was never built.

    8. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Kynde · · Score: 1

      You're wrong. Just sayin'.

      "The biggest bomb ever detonated on earth" is the biggest one ever built - the full yield version was never built.

      Yep, that would be Tsar Bomba detonated over Novaja Zemlja in the sixties. Windows were broken as far as in Finnish and Norwegian north. Amazing and fascinating stuff.

      --
      1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
    9. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...that's how you scale down a nuclear bomb: You replace fissionable mateiral (the U-238 tamper) with non-fissionable material (lead) so that stage of the reaction doesn't occur.

      So, yes, they did directly 'scale down' the bomb, by stripping out the fallout-heave U-238 tamper that _doubled_ the power of the bomb if it had ever been included.

    10. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a myth. Tsar bomba was just a demonstration of power. It was never intended for use as a weapon.

    11. Re:Bruce still has a shot by necro81 · · Score: 1

      Bruce Willis may not have a shot, but we still have Chuck Norris.

    12. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Hognoxious · · Score: 1, Funny

      To stop the communists taking away our SUVs and forcing free healthcare on us.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the biggest bomb ever was that shockingly bad film, Armageddon. What was that awful Bruce Willis "one liner"? Something like "I never didn't dig a hole that needed to be dug" or some such. That film is right down up there with BMX Bandits. Doing academic work on the basis of such a tragically terrible film seems even more misguided than those who made it in the first place.

    14. Re:Bruce still has a shot by cHiphead · · Score: 1

      The moment we try that it will be like you're already IN Canada.

      --

      This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    15. Re:Bruce still has a shot by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Actually, there was a real, sensible (as things go in the field of nuclear deterrent) reason for them: The USSR did not at the time have anything that could deliver a payload with precision.

      True. But while the size and weight of a weapon scale (roughly) linearly with yield (within a design generation), the destructive power scales with the square root of the yield. Or, to but it another way, bombs get bigger and heavier faster than they get more destructive. Which means that really big bombs hurt you by compromising delivery capability (I.E. heavier bombs reduce range) far more than they aid you by adding additional destructive power. On top of that, 5-10 megatons is sufficient to destroy most non hardened targets, even with a miss distance on the order of 5 miles or so. (And most targets of interest are in fact non hardened.)
       
      If you examine a list of Soviet atmospheric tests (covering most of the "limited accuracy" and "large slow bombers" phase), this is borne out. Most weapons they tested were far smaller, and the next largest after Tsar Bomba has barely half the yield.
       
      In the fashion, if you examine a list of US nuclear weapons, you find that even the most inaccurate delivery systems only have a yield in the low megaton range.
       
      No, the OP is correct - large weapons, and especially the Tsar Bomba, were largely lunacy... their sizes driven by dick waving rather than military requirements.

    16. Re:Bruce still has a shot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shoot Chuck Norris at the asteroid?

    17. Re:Bruce still has a shot by cusco · · Score: 1

      We don't even know half the nuclear stuff that the Pentagon did back in the '60s, why are you so sure that we know everything that the Kremlin did? I would actually be shocked to find that the US hadn't built something similar or larger, just because of the eternal dick-wagging competition that every general spends his life doing.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    18. Re:Bruce still has a shot by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      a nuclear winter would probably do wonders to offset climate change

      Now I'm curious. Did you choose "climate change" instead of "global warming" on pourpose?

    19. Re:Bruce still has a shot by afidel · · Score: 1

      Actually it's likely it would have been more than 100MT with the U-238 tamper, in Ivy Mike 77% of the total energy came from fast fission of the tamper, for castle Bravo it was estimated to be 66%.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    20. Re:Bruce still has a shot by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      We don't even know half the nuclear stuff that the Pentagon did back in the '60s, why are you so sure that we know everything that the Kremlin did?

      Because of the various test ban treaty requirements - we know a great deal of what both Kremlin and Pentagon did back in 60's. (I.E. just because you don't know, doesn't mean bomb geeks and specialists don't.) In addition, the US released a great deal of information because public (I.E. Soviet) knowledge of things like yields and general accuracy are part of what made deterrence and MAD work.
       

      I would actually be shocked to find that the US hadn't built something similar or larger, just because of the eternal dick-wagging competition that every general spends his life doing.

      I would be - because such a weapon is practically useless from a military point of view. (Remember, weight scales [roughly] linearly with yield, but destructive power scales with the square root of yield.) Additionally, it consumes the nuclear fuel that can much more usefully be employed in a considerable number of smaller bombs. (There's a reason why the US has, generally speaking, steadily replaced large bombs with smaller ones.) And then, once again, we run up against the problem that keeping such a weapon secret runs counter to the general doctrines of deterrence and MAD. Or to put it another way, there's every reason to believe that the US didn't build such a bomb, and outside of general ignorance and stereotyping... no reason to assume they did.

  10. how they did it by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm not sure why this is news, but here's what they calculated:

    The students devised a formula to find the total amount of kinetic energy needed in relation to the volume of the asteroid pieces, their density, the clearance radius (which was taken as the radius of Earth plus 400 miles), the asteroid's pre-detonation velocity, and its distance from Earth at the point of detonation. Using the measurements and properties of the asteroid as stated in the film, the formula revealed that 800 trillion terajoules of energy would be required to split the asteroid in two with both pieces clearing the planet. However, the total energy output of Big Ivan "only comes to 418,000 terajoules. The asteroid is approximated as a spherical object 1000km in diameter

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:how they did it by loufoque · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm not a bomb geek but even I know that Big Ivan is not the largest bomb ever made.

    2. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you are wrong.

    3. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I recall, the most powerful bombs in the us was around 9 megatons, and they where dismantled a few years ago.

    4. Re:how they did it by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      Well, I am a bomb geek and Tsar Bomba (the bomb geeks name for Big Ivan), or at least the 50MT version, is in fact the largest bomb known to be ever made. Only a single 50MT device was ever assembled, and no full yield (100MT) was ever assembled.

    5. Re:how they did it by loufoque · · Score: 1

      I had heard of it as Tsar Bomba, and didn't know Big Ivan was another name for it. My bad.

    6. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Not sure if this is what you are talking about, but in The Fog of War (excellent piece of film, please watch it if you haven't) Robert McNamara claims (and quite emphatically at that) that during his tenure as Secretary of Defense, the US tested a 100MT device in the atmosphere.

      It's true that he was getting on in years, but he nevertheless seemed to be more lucid than, say, most everyday people, and there doesn't seem to be much point to making such a thing up.

    7. Re:how they did it by pthisis · · Score: 1

      As I recall, the most powerful bombs in the us was around 9 megatons, and they where dismantled a few years ago.

      The American B41s were ~25MT; the last ones were dismantled in 1976. They were never exploded, though. The biggest US explosion was 15 MT in the infamous Castle Bravo test--that bomb was only supposed to be 5MT and the test was supposed to be secret, but unexpected reactivity of one of the lithium isotopes made it go off at triple that, causing severe fallout problems and ensuring that there was no secrecy.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    8. Re:how they did it by subreality · · Score: 5, Informative

      The biggest that the US ever actually popped was Castle Bravo. Design yield: 4-6Mt. Actual yield: 15Mt, resulting in the dry bit of island it was sitting on turning into a deep spot in the reef and destruction of the monitoring equipment two islands over, not to mention dropping fallout all over the local civilians. Oops. The Castle-* designs were weaponized into the Mk-17/Mk-21/Mk-24 with a 5-15 Mt range.

      The biggest the US ever deployed was the B41, at a perfectly practical 25Mt.

      Yields peaked in the 60s because the complete assemblies were huge and if you could only cart around one bomb on your plane or missile, it might as well be a big one. Since then the trend in big bombs has been toward the 0.5-1 Mt range, like the B83. The reason doesn't really have much to do with "arsenal reduction"; the real story is they figured out how to shrink midsize ones down to a much smaller package, and it's simply more efficient (more stuff blown up per kg of plutonium) to drop a half dozen 1Mt bombs in a pattern than to drop a single 25Mt one and having most of the energy end up in a stratosphere-bumping mushroom cloud.

      Of course that Soviet triple-stage monster takes the cake. There's simply no possible use for a larger one, even as a national dick waving status symbol. 50Mt is basically the most you can ever drop from a plane and live to tell about it, and you HAVE to drop it from a plane because a ground burst would create stupid amounts of fallout while not even being that impressive (air bursts work better); and no one's going to bother building a missile big enough to carry a 27,000 Kg firework just to show off. I hope.

      So now you know, and knowing is how we get the next generation interested in one upmanship.

    9. Re:how they did it by stainlesssteelpat · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up.

      --
      War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, the lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade.- Shelley
    10. Re:how they did it by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      and good lord was it an impressive piece of hardware. Makes me all gooey just thinking about it.

      I can watch Trinity and Beyond every year http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114728/ Nuke porn at it's most glorious. Narrated by Shatner himself and with an awesome orchestra to boot. Man that bomb was impressive.

      (yes, I love nukes!)

    11. Re:how they did it by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      According to all the stuff I've read, the Russians detonated the largest at 50mt, the Americans never blew up such a large weapon.

    12. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and no one's going to bother building a missile big enough to carry a 27,000 Kg firework just to show off.

      A Saturn V could do it. Could drop it anywhere on Earth.

    13. Re:how they did it by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Scary as fuck to see it explode though. If it was exploded over a major city, the entire city would be extirpated.

    14. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same AC here... actually, checking out the vid again (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804 , shortly after 19:30 or so), he is probably talking about the tsar bomba after all -- it is somewhat ambiguous though: He says "we came within a hair's breath of war with the Soviet Union on three different occasions ... During the Kennedy administration, they designed a 100 megaton bomb. It was tested in the atmosphere." So I would say now that he was talking about the soviet device; i.e., JFK admin reference is merely to the time period, "they" refers to the Soviets, and he omitted to mention that the yield was scaled back from 100 megatons before the test.

      I'm sure I've read somewhere someone else noting this claim of his, and interpreting it the same way I originally did -- which I see now was almost certainly the wrong interpretation. So that's cleared that up for me anyway.

    15. Re:how they did it by plexluthor · · Score: 1

      They made some assumptions out of necessity, but some of them are questionable. Since one of the shuttles lands on a field of "iron ferrite", they assume the entire asteroid is iron, with a density 7000 kg/m^3. However, it is implied in the movie that landing at that spot was particularly bad luck since there were other landing spots that weren't iron plates. The actual bulk density of most asteroids is between 1000 and 3000 kg/m^3. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/books/AsteroidsIII/pdf/3022.pdf Furthermore, "the size of Texas" was assumed to mean a sphere 1000km across. Saying a sphere is the same size as a two-dimensional object is meaningless, so it's tough to say how big the asteroid was meant to be. If we were trying to make the plotline work, we might say that the asteroid had the same surface area as Texas. That means a sphere with diameter ~300km, or a misshapen object (like most asteroids are) of significantly less mass than a 300km sphere. Not to diminish the value of this project for teaching physics, but in about 15 minutes of Googling I reduced their "9 orders of magnitude" claim to 7 orders of magnitude, even less if you take the low estimates on both density and diameter. Next step in making the plotline work (but it would require actual thought, so I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader) is to see if the movie indicates the asteroid is headed right at the center of Earth. If not, perhaps it would be necessary to split the asteroid into two equal hemispheres, but instead to push most of the asteroid off in the short direction, and a smaller piece of asteroid at a higher velocity in the opposite direction. Not sure how much that reduces the required kinetic energy (if at all), though.

    16. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50Mt is basically the most you can ever drop from a plane and live to tell about it.

      If it ever came time to start dropping miniature suns on foreign lands, I seriously doubt the survivability of the crew is even factored into the equation. What's left to live for at that point, anyways?

    17. Re:how they did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it depends on the composition of the asteroid. Asteroids aren't perfectly uniform either, so it may be possible to blow off a large-enough piece that we save the planet, despite taking a heavy hit. I can imagine it in my head but can't imagine trying to simulate a more real-life scenario...yikes.

    18. Re:how they did it by airdweller · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the English, French and Russians would know about this and the latter would use it for the anti-US propaganda.

  11. Idiots! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have they never heard of the phrase "willing suspension of disbelief"?

    Here's some news for them: the teenage mutant Ninja turtles weren't real either.

    1. Re:Idiots! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      What? Next you're going to claim this photo is real!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    2. Re:Idiots! by Teknikal69 · · Score: 1

      I agree with you and almost always get the same thought's especially watching mythbusters episodes recently, still like the show but I wish they would just leave movies alone.

    3. Re:Idiots! by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      And in other news, failed hockey players can't play golf either.

  12. The premise of the paper is quite narrowly defined by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    The definition of "big enough" is apparently "big enough to split a 1000km diameter spherical asteroid in two, and with enough force that the trajectory of both pieces misses the earth". I haven't seen the movie - is that what they did?

    It seems to me, though, that the goal should be to break up an approaching asteroid into small enough pieces so the atmosphere can do most of the dirty work for us. Deflecting the asteroid doesn't seem very feasible unless we detect it long before it approaches earth (and then there's the issue of reaching it...).

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  13. Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what other plausible scenarios can there be to get Bruce Willis off this planet permanently?

  14. Assignment in Space with Rip Foster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1950's juvenile science fiction novel with exactly that plot, but instead of trying to blow up the asteroid, they use small nukes to deflect its orbit slightly, sending it where they want it to go.

  15. But It Wasn't an Asteroid in the Film! by MaxiCat_42 · · Score: 0

    I seem to remember that the object in the film was a comet (which was starting to fall apart) and possibly a little bit more fragile than a rocky asteroid. Probably still require a hefty bomb though.

    Phil.

    1. Re:But It Wasn't an Asteroid in the Film! by Chewbacon · · Score: 2

      There was an asteroid in the film. You're thinking of Deep Impact: the same movie, cornier, with Elijah Wood, the homely-looking love interest and a comet.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
  16. Quick! by OhANameWhatName · · Score: 1

    We ssoooo need to develop bigger bombs. What if the asteroid comes??

  17. Obligatory Chuck Norris comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Forget Bruce Willis, you just have to land Chuck Norris up there and have him stomp his foot once.

    1. Re:Obligatory Chuck Norris comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forget Bruce Willis, you just have to land Chuck Norris up there and have him stomp his foot once.

      Nah, just get Chuck Norris to stare it down.
        That astroid will change course on it's own.

    2. Re:Obligatory Chuck Norris comment by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      Why would he have to land? I thought one glance from him would make the asteroid realize it had better places to be. If needed, a second glance could be used to quarter it (halves are for pussies).

    3. Re:Obligatory Chuck Norris comment by TheQuantumShift · · Score: 1

      I think you mean "Announce Chuck Norris is aware of the asteroid, and watch it break itself to pieces out of pure respect."

      --

      Shift happens. Fire it up.
    4. Re:Obligatory Chuck Norris comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't underestimate Chuck Norris. He could break it up without even going up there, just stomp his foot while still on Earth.

  18. Sophia Loren wasn't built in a day by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 0

    or in a night. She is definitely one of the biggest shells ever made! There were always two big reasons to explode for her. (http://www.google.com/search?q=young+sophia+loren)

  19. Don't forget who directed the movie by bjdevil66 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Plot points based in hard science aren't exactly Michael Bay's MO...

    1. Re:Don't forget who directed the movie by Ardias · · Score: 1

      Good plots are not Michael Bay's strong points. Neither is understanding reality.

      Who else is bad enough to turn a dramatic historic event like the Attack on Pearl Harbor into a less than mediocre movie?

    2. Re:Don't forget who directed the movie by robthebloke · · Score: 4, Funny

      Plot points aren't exactly Michael Bay's MO...

      FTFY

    3. Re:Don't forget who directed the movie by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Neither are plots based on good stories, but that doesnt seem to stop him from making money....

    4. Re:Don't forget who directed the movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plot points in his movies? I mean, other than explosions and PG female skin exposure?

  20. For those who don't RTFA. by Bongoots · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is the real paper, coming in at only 2 pages it's a light read: https://physics.le.ac.uk/journals/index.php/pst/article/viewFile/390/243

    You weren't going to RTFA anyway, now were you?..
    --

    P1_1 Could Bruce Willis Save the World?
    Back A, Brown G, Hall B and Turner S
    Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH.
    November 1st, 2011

    Abstract
    The film Armageddon (1998) puts forward the possibility of using a nuclear weapon buried deep within an Earth-bound asteroid to split the asteroid in two, each half clearing opposite sides of the Earth with only relatively minor damage. This article investigates the feasibility of such a plan and shows that even using the largest nuclear weapon made to date, the bomb comes over 9 orders of magnitude short of the yield required.

    [...]

    1. Re:For those who don't RTFA. by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this would work if the asteroid was already fractured and prone to shatter? Just a thought, but the chances of that are probably pretty slim.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    2. Re:For those who don't RTFA. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd still have to deflect the pieces from their current course, into two courses each missing the earth. That's what most of the energy is needed for in the calculation.

  21. Hollywood Math by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

    We've known for a long time that the guys in Hollywood have been pretty bad at math, though usually they are only out by a factor of a million.

    1. Re:Hollywood Math by Minwee · · Score: 1

      We've known for a long time that the guys in Hollywood have been pretty bad at math, though usually they are only out by a factor of a million.

      As the old saying goes, "You write what you know". When the writers only work experience is in writing scripts, pitching them to producers and preparing movie budgets, it's only to be expected that their grasp on reality will be weak and their math will be lucky to come within a factor of 100 off of the right answer.

  22. Could we do something anyway? by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

    Scenario : there is 5 years warning, and the asteroid is 10 km is diameter (the size of the one that wiped out the dinosaurs).

    Could we deflect it? Assume that the mission to intercept the asteroid reached it 2 years before impact.

    I kind of feel like there would be a way. In this scenario, ALL the resources are going to solving the problem. At least 50 trillion dollars or more. Most other activities are suspended in the western world and china. A salt-water fission rocket or something ought to be powerful enough to deflect the asteroid.

    1. Re:Could we do something anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this scenario, ALL the resources are going to solving the problem. At least 50 trillion dollars or more. Most other activities are suspended in the western world and china.

      That's pre-climate-change-denial thinking, bro.

    2. Re:Could we do something anyway? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      In this scenario, ALL the resources are going to solving the problem.

      I'm sure that the Tea Party Republicans here in the US would deny that it would "destroy all life" and make sure it wouldn't get funded unless the mission were paid for with corresponding cuts in social programs.

      --
      That is all.
  23. No worries! by EzInKy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Everyone knows that in such an event Sam will open a hyperspace window and the asteroid will fall right through.

    "You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."
              Lt. Col. Samanth Carter

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    1. Re:No worries! by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 1

      You only need to open hyperspace windows if the asteroid has a high concentration of naquadah, else a Mk IX gate buster aught to vaporize everything in a 100 mile radius. So that's solved for anything up to 100 miles.

    2. Re:No worries! by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      Would Naqahdah bombs provide enough energy for the plan?

    3. Re:No worries! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weir: ---putting your life and other people's lives at risk. You destroyed three quarters of a solar system!

      McKay: Well, five sixths. It's not an exact science.

  24. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anti-Virus company proposes code for attacking any alien motherships which may appear over the US, and Korean graphics painters are put on alert to draw a huge steam roller in case Judge Doom somehow managed to survive that cauldron of dip....

  25. Not a good idea at all by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Informative

    The last thing you want is lots of pieces - there's something called gravity which would cause them to re-agglutinate on the rest of the journey. Breaking up an asteroid takes far more energy than deflection, as should be obvious-despite the current illiteracy, it takes far less energy to brake a car than it does to break it up. Of course Hollywood wouldn't want deflection because there's nothing to see on screen - but deflecting it into a safe orbit would be much safer because you only have to predict the track of one object, not millions of small ones with different trajectories.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Not a good idea at all by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      it takes far less energy to brake a car than it does to break it up

      That depends on how fast it's going. . .

    2. Re:Not a good idea at all by billyswong · · Score: 1

      it takes far less energy to brake a car than it does to break it up

      That depends on how fast it's going. . .

      True when the car is rock solid.

    3. Re:Not a good idea at all by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      If they are smaller pieces though, they'll break up in the Earth's atmosphere must more easily surely? If they were really small, they'd presumably break up completely?

      Also, wouldn't an explosion spray all the pieces in 360 degree directions, with many bits going back off into space.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    4. Re:Not a good idea at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are smaller pieces though, they'll break up in the Earth's atmosphere must more easily surely? If they were really small, they'd presumably break up completely?

      If the pieces are small enough, they'll effecively break up in the atmosphere but that's actually very bad. Whether the asteroid fell in one piece or multiple pieces, the same kinetic energy will be delivered to Earth. If it arrives in one chunk, it'll be up to the crust to absorb that energy,
      if it arrives in small pieces all that energy will have to be absorbed by the atmosphere through detonations. The atmosphere is much more fragile than the crust.

      Also, wouldn't an explosion spray all the pieces in 360 degree directions, with many bits going back off into space.

      No it would spray the pieces into a cone since the original asteroid wasn't immobile.

    5. Re:Not a good idea at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deflection can still make a good movie. Imagine an asteroid near miss - an orbit so low it passes through the lower atmosphere over a populated area before it goes out into space again. Bonus points if it then hits the moon and splits it in two . . .

    6. Re:Not a good idea at all by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      And coefficient of friction...

  26. Doesn't matter by alzoron · · Score: 1

    Blowing up asteroids is oldschool. All the cool kids these days just open a hyperspace window and fly them safely through the planet and then conveniently forget that we have a massive object rich with valuable minerals in orbit around Earth for the rest of the series.

    1. Re:Doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No no no.

      Doing that will pollute hyperspace with asteroids!

  27. Catch 22 by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    If we invented a bomb that big we would probably be in more danger than we are from an asteroid hit.

  28. your moms chilly bombed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    its da biggest bomb ever i tell yea

  29. Sophia Loren by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1

    Was far too classy ever to be mentioned on Slashdot.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Sophia Loren by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And still is.

      So STFU you guys, or I'm calling Rob Malda!

  30. Limits on H-bombs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correct me if I'm mistaken but as far I as can remember there's no upper limit to the power of an H-bomb besides the amount of hydrogen you're willing to use. Or it might have to be deuterium. Whichever it is, I'm quite confident there's a billion times more of that on earth than has ever been used. That also raises new questions about yield and such which the one-and-a-half page article doesn't get into. Would yield go up at low gravity? Would a bigger boom make for higher yield? The intersting question here would be what kind of bomb would do it, not that Armageddon isn't scientifically accurate.

    I'm aware of the other ideas for astroid divertion, pulling it into a different orbit using a massive satellite. But if the Armageddon scenario would unfold, which seems more likely than early detection the way the world is spending money on that, would it be possible to blow it up?

  31. Shocked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm shocked, shocked to read that one of the premisses of the film Armageddon is scientifically incorrect !

  32. New Bomb Powerful Enough... , Says Bruce Willis by Fusselwurm · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... or so I misread the headline at first glance.

  33. No need to deflect it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Why would we need to deflect it? The assumptions were that the movie was correct, not that the earth is rendered safe from planetary wide extinction. You wouldn't need to deflect the asteroid at all for that.

    A sufficiently sized bomb drilled into the middle of the asteroid would with ease break it up into smaller chunks. All those chunks individually would still hit the planet, but if the chunks are sufficiently small you dramatically increase their surface area and the amount they burn up as they enter the atmosphere. The end result would be a few tsunamis eliminating a few coastal cities, maybe a nuclear disaster in Japan, and an otherwise enduring humanity.

    1. Re:No need to deflect it by mosb1000 · · Score: 1

      You're describing Deep Impact.

    2. Re:No need to deflect it by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Because deflecting an asteroid that's far away from earth is easier than reliably blasting it to small enough bits.

      Think of how much force it takes to nudge a cue ball away from its original destination. Compare with the force it takes to blast a rock to small bits.

      If a big asteroid is already too close to nudge away, we're screwed.

      --
    3. Re:No need to deflect it by rts008 · · Score: 1

      You are begging the question.

      You are making far too many assumptions with your argument.

      A sufficiently sized bomb drilled into the middle of the asteroid would with ease break it up into smaller chunks.

      A 'shaped charge' that exploits a weakness detected at farther away than we are currently able too, by magnitudes of order, are no help, realistically.

      What we need to do, is fund advanced detection of these threats, if, and when, they are perceived by 'Joe Six-pack"; or make that happen...

      I won't even bother with the rest of your assumptions, they are too ludicrous to even comment on, based on the first assumption.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    4. Re:No need to deflect it by CubicleView · · Score: 1

      I think you're basically arguing that it's better that the shotgun pointed at you from two foot away be loaded with shot instead of a deer slug.

    5. Re:No need to deflect it by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      Just imagine breaking up an asteroid of 1km diameter in asteroids that all have diameters of less than 50m, with a single bomb. I don't think it'll work. But it does lead to the idea that mass drivers could come in two variants. The efficient one that keeps the asteroid whole, and the wasteful one that just throws aways rocks at escape speed.

    6. Re:No need to deflect it by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      A sufficiently sized bomb drilled into the middle of the asteroid would with ease break it up into smaller chunks. All those chunks individually would still hit the planet, but if the chunks are sufficiently small you dramatically increase their surface area and the amount they burn up as they enter the atmosphere. The end result would be a few tsunamis eliminating a few coastal cities, maybe a nuclear disaster in Japan, and an otherwise enduring humanity.

      They were talking about an object with a diameter of 1,000 km. That's bigger than the largest known asteroid (Ceres). And if you managed to split it into one billion pieces, you would have one billion pieces 1 km in size each. The Tunguska explosing was probably caused by an object less than 100 meters in size.

    7. Re:No need to deflect it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Well that's exactly the false premise that was addressed in the movie. If you detonate a bomb on the surface you generate force but in all directions not concentrated in the direction of a ball backed with momentum. If you detonate a bomb inside an enclosed environment.... well that's how bombs work. By containing pressure they cause pressure to build until eventual destruction of the casing which now carries quite a strong amount of kinetic energy behind it.

      It requires much less power to blow something into small bits than it does to move it if the energy is expelled in all directions.

    8. Re:No need to deflect it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Shaped charge and internal detonation aren't the same thing. Admittedly you'd need some way of sealing the bomb in the asteroid rather than the simple drop it into the hole and press the button approach of the movie. In the movie it really was more of a shaped charge.

    9. Re:No need to deflect it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Not sure where the sub 50m number would come from. Is that what's needed to prevent an extinction event on earth? Does it need to break up that small? I'm talking about reducing the impact not eliminating it entirely.

    10. Re:No need to deflect it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. Didn't read the size assumptions.

    11. Re:No need to deflect it by TheLink · · Score: 1

      http://impact.ese.ic.ac.uk/ImpactEffects/
      http://simulator.down2earth.eu/

      I'm not sure if it's 50m (I'm not the one making that claim), but you can pick the chunk size you want and work out how much damage it will do. Do also work out how many chunks you will get from your chosen source asteroid.

      Being nuked by thousands of small nukes is also quite damaging (a 1000 km diameter asteroid should be able to produce a few thousand 50km diameter chunks).

      --
    12. Re:No need to deflect it by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Uh, dig in a bit? Would also be faster and less problematic than drilling all the way to the center.

      It requires much less power to blow something into small bits than it does to move it if the energy is expelled in all directions.

      a) Stick a small firecracker to the side of a large rock, and hang the rock on a string.
      Set off the firecracker, does the rock move slightly? That's deflecting the asteroid.

      b) Drill a deep hole into a similar sized rock and put a same strength small firecracker into the hole.
      Set off the firecracker, does the rock blow up into small bits, or large chunks, or not at all.
      That's blowing the asteroid to bits.

      --
    13. Re:No need to deflect it by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      I remembered that the damage done went from 'mostly harmless' to 'takes our a whole city' in the range 10m-100m

  34. reading comprehension by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    I'm not a bomb geek but even I know that Big Ivan is not the largest bomb ever made.

    And that relates how to an article quoting the "biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth."

    Which is most definitely Big Ivan.

  35. Biggest Bomb Ever? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    I bet we could shift an asteroid's course if we packed up all the copies of Battlefield Earth and launched them against it.
    /Though I personally think the Mission Earth series was by far the longest series of crap books ever published.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Biggest Bomb Ever? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      You could probably get a better yield if you used copies of Gigli, but for the ultimate bomb you would need to use copies of The Hottie & the Nottie.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  36. Why bother. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why bother with bombs for a fast moving asteroids? Use a powerful laser.

  37. Easy answer - bomb contained a black hole by dbIII · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How else can you explain the time dilation of the painfully drawn out scene while the timer is ticking down and the audience is screaming "it's been minutes and supposed to be seconds - just die!".
    Either than or about the fiftieth continuity or stupidly ignored fact failure of the movie.
    There were Highlander sequals that made more sense - even the one where the sword changed from claymore to katana and back again in the middle of a fight.

  38. Bigger bomb? by SealBeater · · Score: 1

    No problem. If it's one thing the human race is good at, it's making bigger and better bombs.

    --
    -- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
    1. Re:Bigger bomb? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok i need a break. I read boobs.

  39. 1000 KM? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

    A 1000 km asteroid is rather enormous; it's estimated that a 10 km asteroid killed off the dinosaurs. That's got a mass of roughly one millionth that of the 1000 KM asteroid.

    Suddenly we go from a billion times more powerful than we've ever detonated, to only one thousand times. That would seem to put it in the realm of feasibility; you build multiple much bigger bombs.

    If we need a thousand times more than Tsar Bomba, that means we need a total of 50,000 megatons. An as-designed Tsar Bomba was twice as powerful, and had a yield ratio of roughly 4 megatons per ton, meaning we'd need to deliver 12,500 tons to the asteroid. That's a lot of mass to get off the planet, but probably within the realm of possibility for a concerted worldwide effort.

    Besides, it would seem to me that you'd be better off spending the energy nudging the course of the asteroid rather than wasting energy trying to split the thing. A sufficiently large number of nuclear explosions on the same vector ought to do the trick far more cheaply.

    1. Re:1000 KM? by tp1024 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Even worse: There are no asteroids with a diameter of 1000km. The largest of them, Ceres, is 950km and at a very safe distance in a very stable orbit. The second largest, Vesta, is less than 600km in diameter.

      In fact, the main "danger" nowadays is seen in objects of about 0.1km in diameter, since that is the size at which asteroids are still damaging, but also escape early detection. That takes about 15 orders of magnitude off the energy requirements. But at this point, you wouldn't even need a bomb. Just shoving a few tons of stuff at a few km/s in front of the asteroid is enough to tear it apart. (The kinetic energy of 1t of material at 2.8km/s is equivalent to 1t of TNT.)

    2. Re:1000 KM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did base their calculations on the movie. And in that movie, the shuttle landed a whole 40 km from the intended landing spot. That is rather difficult on a 10 km asteroid...

    3. Re:1000 KM? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Not if they refused to stop for directions...

    4. Re:1000 KM? by ledow · · Score: 1

      Nuclear explosions work differently in space. This nuclear explosion you're on about to nudge things out of the way:

      Precisely where is the force going to apply? And the equal and opposite force in the opposing direction, in zero gravity, with no atmosphere, against a 10km wide target? A nuclear explosion is mostly just energy, heat mainly, and in an atmosphere that causes a huge - literally the word for it - explosion of gases that push the physical objects in its path. In space... not so much. Sure, we can "feel" the effect of the sun pushing satellites but it's not much at all.

      And even the largest nuclear weapons detonated on Earth left buildings standing and cities intact. Hell, there's still an archway from Nagasaki ground zero still standing.

      Just what do you think an "explosion" (lit: rapid expansion of gases that aren't there in space), in a vacuum, in front of a 10km-thick wall of rock is going to do to it rather than just be pushed out of the way as it comes through?

      Nuclear explosions, despite being energy-produced, tend to cause so much damage because of the atmosphere and other things they heat up and modify on the way past, shoving other things out of the way and pushing against everything (including whatever they are constrained by). This is why you can fly over them and get fancy pictures - the atmosphere itself limits the force which it would normally push up and spread spherically instead and you get a nice mushroom cloud or (if it's just a bit underground) a slight boom and no visible signs of detonation.

      Exploding nuclear weapons in front of an asteriod of, say, 10km is like inflating a hot air balloon in front of a supertanker. It will just get shoved out of the way and pushed back along the asteroids original course.

      Just think purely in terms of matter (because the energy won't "slow" the asteroid, only kill things on it like nuclear weapons kill people and leave cities standing) - how much does the nuclear weapon weigh, and what's that going to do if you throw it ALL against the asteroid? E=mc^2, yes, but you're still looking at affecting a HUGE mass itself.

      And what's it going to do if you explode it in front of said asteroid, with nothing to constrain it, if the asteroid only takes up, say, 20% of the total spherical area? Most of its energy / mass will go the "easy" way out and not through the 10km asteroid heading towards it at stupid speeds.

      And, in the end, all you've done is made a pretty burn mark and slightly warmed and irradiated the front end of an asteroid. Multiply by even 1000 nuclear weapons and you're still not going to do much that will come close to deflecting a huge object like that by hundreds or thousands of kilometres.

      A "sufficiently" large number of weapons could even weigh more than the asteroid would, given the losses and speeds involved. And let's not forget - you have to do it with pixel-perfect positioning while you wait for it to come in at thousands of km per hour and all your weapons and shuttles that put them there are trying to manoeuvre within an orbit far outside anything stable or stationary to get into its path and stay there.

      Feasibility really is damn near zero, unless you work in Hollywood. And firing nuclear weapons at anything substantial in space is like trying to stop someone from beating you up by putting a bubble-gum-bubble in his path.

    5. Re:1000 KM? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      It seems to work for Project Orion...

    6. Re:1000 KM? by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately (for no real reason): If an asteroid sufficiently large enough to cause world-wide panic was going to enter the Earth's atmosphere, and we had no way to "Armageddon" it, would parking all the world's military vessels (planes, boats, tanks if possible) near the calculated landing point and just hammering it with literally everything when it got within range do anything (decrease force, break it up, cause it to vaporize on entry, etc.)?

      I'm talking the asteroid is entering the atmosphere, going through the entry burn (I forget the actual term), and then it's just being hammered with rockets and high-caliber ammunition.

      Your post suggests that it would do a lot of something; I wonder if someone smarter than I could come up with a formula for just how much force would be necessary at what height for what size asteroid (assuming uniformity in the asteroid, which, yeah, is not likely).

    7. Re:1000 KM? by tp1024 · · Score: 1

      Well, it would do a lot of no good at all.

      The point of destroying or deflecting it in space is, that the carnage is not here. And if you have any reasonable amount of time at all (which is likely the case), you would prefer to nudge it slightly rather than destroy it completely anyway.

    8. Re:1000 KM? by ks*nut · · Score: 1

      From my experience, the real threat is from a comet with Earth's name on it. Lead time for "retalliation" would be minimal; the real challenge to civil authorities would be how to put a lid on it to avoid widespread panic. I think part of the problem with Americans dealing with the metric system is that we're generally ignorant of the basic units of measurement and the prefix system. However, we have some of the most completely educated students on the ability to convert from one system to the other - at the expense of their ability to perform in basic math and science.

    9. Re:1000 KM? by Fned · · Score: 1

      Nuclear explosions work differently in space. This nuclear explosion you're on about to nudge things out of the way:

      Precisely where is the force going to apply?

      Well, that's why they'll need those oil guys to drill that narrow, deep shaft, so that the vaporized interior of the asteroid would vent out like rocket exhaust and deflect it.

    10. Re:1000 KM? by cusco · · Score: 1

      Why are you insisting on exploding the weapon before contact with the surface? Kind of a long post based on a supposition that makes no sense. Nukes on Earth are designed for air burst in order to maximize the irradiated area and shock wave damage, there would be no reason to do the same thing in space since your intent is different. It may make the most sense to drop a nuke in a crater first created by a conventional bomb, since then the majority of your energy is going to be absorbed by the asteroid, but IANAAP so that's just a guess on my part.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  40. Rocket-powered sky cranes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's okay. No need to be so radical and split it up to pieces, we could just beef up our sky crane and simply drag it out of the way.

  41. The Space Shuttle by RudyHartmann · · Score: 2

    Another big point missed in the movie is that the Space Shuttle is only capable of going to Low Earth Orbit. Bruce Willis wouldn't have even been able to get the bomb there even if it was big enough.

    --
    Oh, yeah! Wise guy, huh? Woob woob woob woob! Nyuk! Nyuk!
    1. Re:The Space Shuttle by maroberts · · Score: 1

      Another big point missed in the movie is that the Space Shuttle is only capable of going to Low Earth Orbit. Bruce Willis wouldn't have even been able to get the bomb there even if it was big enough.

      Umm no, for one thing they weren't Space Shuttles - they were a sort of Space Shuttle Mk2. Secondly they went to a Russian space station in LEO and refuelled. Once they've got out of Earths gravity, a small amount of fuel will get you lots of delta v.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    2. Re:The Space Shuttle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dummy. They didn't use a stock shuttle.

    3. Re:The Space Shuttle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually they did make an attempt to address that. The ones in the movie were not Space Shuttles, but special next generation prototypes. They also had an additional set of solid rocket boosters and they picked up additional fuel from Mir once in orbit (why Mir had that much rocket fuel to spare I don't know, but at least they filled one plot hole with a marginally smaller plot hole).

  42. There AREN'T any (discovered) asteroids* that big! by wisebabo · · Score: 1

    I know this is a fault of the movie, not the paper, but there aren't any asteroids 1000 km in diameter (Ceres is just a little bit smaller).

    The only way that the movie could be even remotely plausible would be if this were an extra-solar body coming from interstellar space. Otherwise it would have been detected centuries ago. (Actually, I think the movie indicated something like this). It would also probably be traveling at a high rate of speed since it would have been dropped almost all the way down the Sun's gravity well.

    Still, such a large object would have likely been detected months, if not years (decades)? before impact; even it it were coal black. (I believe the large nightly deep sky surveys would've caught it way in advance). Astronomers have recently been finding much smaller objects way beyond the orbit of Pluto; even if headed directly headed to earth they would take more than a century to get here. But since that would've allowed NASA to train its astronauts how to use the drilling gear used by Bruce Willis et al. the writers made the time very short (I think it was 14 days).

    Far more likely would be the scenario in "Deep Impact" a much more scientifically accurate (boring?) movie. Here the asteroid was only about 10 km or so in diameter, or less than a millionth the size (volume, mass) of the one in "Armageddon". Also, I think, they intercepted it deeper in space and were just trying to deflect it, so a realistically sized nuke would have been able to do the job. And they carried more than one! (So no super heroics requiring Bruce to stay behind).

    Obviously the size and speed of the asteroid in "Armageddon" was only to impress the audience; "Texas-sized is a lot more awesome than "Manhattan-sized". (Both would've been "ELE"- Extinction Level Events). The only possible way any realistically sized nuke (remember, those 1950s super H-Bombs were BIG, I don't think the very largest could be carried by plane), could do the job described in the film would be if the asteroid was shaped like a bow tie and the bomb placed in the fragile center (yes underground would also be important). Oh, and it should be (rapidly?) spinning to counteract its own self-gravity so that it would fly apart (and also perhaps be structurally weaker).**

    I seem to remember there being something in the movie about it being shaped like this (not spinning though). The writers evidently sought to make their story just a little more plausible by adding even more implausibility to it. So what else is new (in Hollywood)?

    *I don't know if any of the recently found Kuiper belt objects are larger, Ceres was the largest asteroid listed in Wikipedia.
    ** Actually, if the asteroid WAS in some sort of bow-tie or dumbbell kind of shape, it MUST have been spinning. Otherwise it would've collapsed under its own weight into a (rough) sphere.

  43. Certainly the interception point is relevant by Karmashock · · Score: 0

    Most realistic scenarios involve intercepting the rock a long time before it gets that close to the earth. If you try to move it at the eleventh hour then yeah the amount of energy to get that sort of delta v is going to be absurd.

    However, if you intercept it quite a bit earlier then bomb could be of reasonable size. Does this meet the criteria of blowing it apart? Depends. If you buried it in the middle of asteroid and we assumed the bomb fractured the rock and caused all the bits to drift slowly in various directions then wouldn't that qualify? It wouldn't recoalese at least not before the intercept with the earth.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  44. Five words by bhunachchicken · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    It's just a fucking movie.

    1. Re:Five words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's six words, sir.

    2. Re:Five words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't remember much fucking in it.

  45. Would the bombs destroy Earth by gshegosh · · Score: 1

    If they cannot destroy even a small asteroid?

  46. You sure? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    The students found it would take a bomb about a billion times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth."

    We have those!

     
    On Slashdot ?
     
    o_0 You sure?
     

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  47. What if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    instead of drilling a hole and dropping a bomb in it, the bomb was pushed to relativistic speeds before impact and detonation? Would it still need to be 9 orders of magnitude larger, or would the energy from the bomb's momentum help split up the asteroid?

    1. Re:What if... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good point.... does a fast moving bomb have more energy than the same device sitting still? It must, right?

  48. Large bombs were of use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The largest cities in the USA are in coastal areas, and the plan was to build 500MT bombs, mount them on submarines, and explode them a few kilometers off the coast.
    The resulting tsunami would have wiped out most of a city like New York.

  49. What REALLY changed the asteroid trajectory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... was Liv Tyler.

    1. Re:What REALLY changed the asteroid trajectory... by maroberts · · Score: 1

      ... was Liv Tyler.

      No, I'd love to make a Deep Impact in Liv Tyler before Armageddon. [/groan]

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

  50. No... by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1
    First, you have to consider the relative motion of earth and asteroid. The asteroid is in an orbit and at this point its velocity relative to us is, say, around 5km per second. Now you blow it up.

    The velocity of the bits relative to the original asteroid is going to be nothing like 5km/s. To do that, the energy required would be many times that of actually fracturing it. I can't be bothered to work it out because my latest install will be finished soon, but let's say that it is a pretty big impact and the average speed of the bits is around 200M/s.

    Relative to the earth, the velocity of the exploded bits is in a range around 5km/s, with most of them in the range 4.7-5.3. They are still coming towards us. Since the original center of the asteroid is still in the same trajectory (remember we blew it up from the middle, see TFA) gravity will gradually pull most of those bits towards that center. After a while, we will have a very heavy comet, still on exactly the same path.

    Now, how about the earth impact? The original asteroid was 1000km dia. Interestingly, if it missed Earth by as little as a few hundred km, we would lose satellites, coastal cities and places like Bangladesh, but we would survive. But now we have approaching us a comet maybe 20 000km across. It is far more likely to hit us. Even if the particles were dust grains, what do you think would be the effect on the atmosphere of dumping all that mass into it at high velocity? Correct: the atmosphere would be stripped off instantly and everybody would die. Even lumps a few meters across will create sizeable craters.

    So, by blowing up the asteroid, we would more or less guarantee our extinction, and after blowing it up failed we would have no other course of action. Whereas sending a succession of deflectors would give us a reasonable chance of success.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:No... by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the info.

      I was thinking of a smaller asteroid though. It would be better for it to be converted to dust (and thus burn up on entry), than hit us full on. At least I think so...

      Also, blowing it up would create forces perpendicular to the asteroid's path to Earth, not just in the same line. Granted, merely fracturing it would be of no use. I was thinking again of a smaller asteroid though.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    2. Re:No... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 1000 km diameter asteroid would be a rather extreme example. Besides being larger than Ceres, it would have a momentum that is a significant fraction of the Moon's, so of course it could make a mess in many different ways.

      But if you took something like the the meteor that made the Chicxulub crater, and spread its energy over half the atmosphere, you would get ~100 C rise in temperature of half the atmosphere, assuming it perfectly dumped all of the energy into heat there. Any hot spots, or slight chunkiness to the remains of the asteroid beyond being vaporized gas, would cause some amount of that energy to be radiated away instead of dumped into the atmosphere.

      It wouldn't be pretty, but it would be survivable in the short term. If the only other option is impact, that is going to be pretty messy too, and not survivable for a large area. Both results could have issues in the long run, probably more with the latter.

  51. Re:There AREN'T any (discovered) asteroids* that b by tp1024 · · Score: 1

    The largest bomb was in fact carried by a plane ... that just about managed to escape from the blast in time. I think it had a mass of 30 tons or so. It was supposed to be carried by what later became known as the Proton rocket. Which is why the Proton is using less efficient, more expensive and much more poisonous storeable fuels (UDMH and NTO) instead of kerosine and liquid oxygen.

    While the Soyuz rocket is using kerosine and LOX, this was also the reason why it was discontinued from service as an ICBM after just 2 years. The time to fill the LOX tanks was just too long to respond. As an ICBM the R-7 had a carrying capacity of 6 tons or so. (The Soyuz is an R-7 with a third stage, instead of a nuke, put on top of it.)

  52. Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me, or is this paper, whether correct or incorrect, sign of a pretty poor performance considering it took 4 university-grads to come up with a 2 page paper containing 3 known equations and some history?

    1. Re:Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you expect? Just look at the USA they lost the ability to put men into space.

  53. check asteroid size and probabilities to hit by SergeyKurdakov · · Score: 1

    from article Students asumed "A series of assumptions must be made due to limited information in the film. First, the asteroid is approximated as a spherical object 1000km in diameter " and the biggest asteroid has just 1000 km size https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(dwarf_planet) and we know this asteroid does not pose threat. - all others are much less in size http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_asteroids#Largest_by_diameter and these too do not pose threat too. and no known big asteroid larger than 1000 meters threatens earth in near future http://www.newser.com/story/129849/nasa-weve-ided-most-killer-asteroids-out-there.html so there is not only a such a bomb exists - there is no such a threat. and for real asteroids the humanity might encounter - the existing bombs are more than enough to destroy them

  54. Oversized asteroid? by AC-x · · Score: 1

    An asteroid 1000km across? That's larger than Ceres, the largest asteroid in the asteroid belt!

    Wouldn't it be more realistic to do the calculation for, say, a 10km asteroid like the Chicxulub impact?

  55. It's been done before by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    a bomb about a billion times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth.

    Let's not forget that human beings have experience making "bomb(s) about a million times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth".

    You could almost say it's one of our specialties.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  56. Good by overshoot · · Score: 1

    That means that we can use bombs to nudge its orbit without the damned thing falling apart into a bunch of planetary buckshot.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  57. So Much Wrong Here... by ATestR · · Score: 1

    The student's analysis is based on the asteroid as described in the movie... estimated at 1000km diameter. This is a ridiculous plot device that the movie makers threw in, since if there was anything that big out there, we would know about it a LOT sooner than predicted by the movie (this is as big as Ceres, which we've known about for hundreds of years!).

    A more useful analysis would be to think about something of a size that we might actually see at a late stage... say 1 - 2 km diameter. This would still be a global killer, and might very well not be seen until it was only a week or three out. Could an nuke effectively be used to nudge one this size out of an Earth impacting trajectory?

    If the kids want to play with calculations like this, fine... but do something realistic, rather than goof off with Hollywood fantasy.

    NOW get off my lawn!

    --
    âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
  58. Re:There AREN'T any (discovered) asteroids* that b by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eris is larger than Pluto; Pluto is larger than Ceres. Before the IAU's demotion of Pluto, a 1000 km diameter was often seen as the rough boundary between "asteroid" and "planet."

  59. lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd volunteer to go into space and blow the thing up.
    Saunapro

  60. Assumptions. by bmo · · Score: 1

    Assuming that Bruce Willis is physically fit and weighs 85kg, we can annihilate him with an equivalent mass of antimatter.

    170kg of mass converted directly to energy gets us 15.3 exajoules of energy (1.53x10^19), or appx 72 Tsar Bombas (each at 2.1x10^17)..

    There are appx 116 members of the cast, credited and uncredited according to IMDB.

    We could detonate the cast members with equivalent masses of antimatter in succession a la "Orion" to steer the asteroid if it is far enough out. This gives us 177x10^19 joules, evenly divided up into 116 separate bombs, assuming the rest of the cast weighs the same.

    For larger asteroids, we could use the casts of Troll 2, Biodome, Battlefield Earth, Ballistic: ecks vs sever (even the title is bad), Battle Los Angeles, Independence Day, The Day After Tomorrow, etc.

    We could then have JJ Abrams add lens flare.

    --
    BMO

  61. FAIL by barv · · Score: 1

    Idiots. Size of Texas means area of asteroid equals area of texas.

    So Diameter of asteroid is only about 150 miles. (260,000 / 4 / Pi ) ^ 0.5

    Which means mass is overstated by around 200 times.

    Jeez. What sorta engineering students are they doing nowadays? USA might as well quit being a superpower right now.

  62. misplaced modifier by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    You've got the brackets in the wrong place.

    It's not an old (Bruce Willis movie), it's an (old Bruce Willis) movie.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  63. Change the asteroid's trajectory by njinsa · · Score: 1

    The best way for us to save ourselves from an asteroid flying toward Earth is to explode an atomic bomb in its way to deflect the asteroid from its path. Of course it has to be properly calculated to plan ahead where the asteroid would be redirected to, so that it does not cause major harm. This is probably the best use of atomic bombs for us as a humanity.

  64. shotgun versus rifle by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    The smaller the fragments are, the more likely they are to burn up in the atmosphere.

    Also, the explosion will scatter them a bit. Most probably won't hit.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  65. So, Let's Build One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no theoretical limit to the yield of a thermonuclear device. So, let's build a Terra-ton weapon, just in case.

  66. Good by hackula · · Score: 1

    Why would you want to blow up a giant asteroid headed towards earth? One asteroid the size of New York vs 100 the size of Rhode Island seems like a pointless distinction to me. Unless you can "vaporize" it, that will be one hell of a debris storm headed our way. Keep the thing in one piece and nudge it in a different direction.

  67. Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I watch a Bruce Willis movie I crack open a beer, dump the chips in a bowl and not only do a "willing suspension of disbelief" but lock that sucker away in a dark corner of the basement. Nothing close to reality and definitely not scientific reality enters my mind for the next two hours. That's how you enjoy a Bruce Willis movie.

  68. Did they not see Hudson Hawk? by Plastic+Pencil · · Score: 1

    Back in the early 90's it nearly destroyed the known universe.

    Now, queue the defenders...

  69. WTF? by Lord+Balto · · Score: 1

    You don't have to blow it up. You just have to divert it enough to prevent it from hitting the earth. At the time of the original study, the plan involved Saturn rockets, which we no longer have. Now, I guess we'd have to rely on the Falcon Heavy.

  70. Anti-matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So in other words--we'd need an anti-matter explosion :)

  71. Misread by ProzacPatient · · Score: 1

    I misread that as "No Bomb Powerful Enough to Destroy On-Rushing Android," so you can imagine my confusion.

  72. No kidding by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    > The students found it would take a bomb about a billion times stronger than the biggest bomb ever detonated on Earth

    No kidding. They even have an onscreen argument in the movie about this where the guy that later plays Lucious Malfoy eviscerates the President's science advisor over his college grades.

    The whole point of the movie was to split the asteriod into 2 pieces rather than trying to destroy it.

    That's the whole point of having the maverick drillers.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  73. What a rather limited view of our options... by cHiphead · · Score: 1

    Why would we just use one bomb? If its necessary, start hitting it with everything we have in an orderly fashion, hell we can probably change trajectory enough to prevent catastrophe with multiple detonations at a particular area, think Project Orion with the asteroid as the space craft (and we don't care if the craft disintegrates in the process).

    Cheers.

    --

    This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  74. Re:The premise of the paper is quite narrowly defi by rossdee · · Score: 1

    If there was an asteroid that big heading for us, we would have seen it already.

  75. Fecking Dive by Dareth · · Score: 1

    A video of Feck diving in the 2012 Olympics would help. It was a "huge bomb".

    And even if that doesn't help deflect the asteroid, maybe the swarm of Olympic lawyers demanding the video be taken down would nudge it a bit.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
    1. Re:Fecking Dive by cusco · · Score: 1

      I vote that we just fire lawyers at it. After the first couple land the asteroid should change course on its own to avoid the rest of them.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  76. If you remember correctly by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    It was more about where they put the bomb than anything else. Now if you want to argue that such a place doesn't exist and if it did you would never be able to analyze and find it in time.

  77. Challenge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That sounds like a challenge......

  78. Reaction mass engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A nuclear powered reaction mass engine suitably placed would use the mass of the asteroid itself for the fuel. Given enough leverage by putting it on early enough and no more problem.

  79. Asteroid miners and their robots by mattr · · Score: 1

    Funny how nobody I think has mentioned that we now have professional asteroid miners, as opposed to the amateurs in the movie.

    My idea calls for a swarm of autonomous drills and planes that can cut and shave an asteroid into ribbons that will quickly disperse and burn up in the atmosphere. In other words cutting something into cold bits and pieces instead of trying to blow it up.

    By the way I am wondering how long it would take for a giant bandsaw to cut through 100 m of rock?
    Bandsaw either being tangential to surface, or perhaps like a chain wrapped tightly around it and automatically getting smaller as it cuts in..

    How would Planetary Resources do it?

    1. Re:Asteroid miners and their robots by mattr · · Score: 1

      P.S. Incidentally, I wonder could blades of silica, carbon or ice be automatically created / sharpened in situ using resources from the asteroid and heat/electricity only? Perhaps an alloy could be created that is stronger than the asteroid's component materials, using same materials and maybe laced with titanium, etc. Also, could heat from fission reactor or solar mirrors be used to soften it up? Perhaps an impact on a semimolten blob would separate more of the mass.

    2. Re:Asteroid miners and their robots by Fned · · Score: 1

      In other words cutting something into cold bits and pieces instead of trying to blow it up.

      They'd also need to separate the bits at more than the escape velocity of the asteroid, otherwise they'd just fall back together into a big lump nearly indistinguishable from a solid object.

  80. Students should get failing grades by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously. The number of assumptions necessary to work out the detail they provided is simply staggering, and has no place in a scientific paper. The students should learn this lesson now, rather than being allowed to take away from this any sense of accomplishment, and gods forbid apply it later in their professional life.

  81. Even if we had such a bomb . . . by serutan · · Score: 1

    We would still need a ragtag band of misfits and renegades and a chainsmoking Russian refueling station attendant.

  82. Seriously? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    A) It was a movie.
    B) FTA:

    First, the asteroid is approximated as a spherical object 1000km in diameter (the asteroid is quoted as being the size of Texas) that splits into two equal sized hemispheres

    Yet, in the movie it is clearly not a spherical object.
    C) In the movie, it is clearly stated they are going to use the bombs to split the asteroid on a natural frature plain. This would decrease the required force significantly.
    D) It was a fucking movie. It was fiction, not a factual account of an actual event. They use movie physics. They flew the space shuttle to the asteriod and it behaves like an airplane in space for crying out loud. They had a chamber that simulated weightlessness in space by creating a vaccuum.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  83. Movie Physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ZOMG the physics in a michael bay movie were wrong, I'm truly astounded that something this unusual happened.

  84. So... by srhoades · · Score: 1

    your saying there's a chance!

  85. Nintendo has its problems too by tepples · · Score: 1

    Nintendo of America has its problems too. Bob's Game anyone?

  86. Texas? by whitroth · · Score: 1

    My kids dragged me to that piece of crap. I managed to get out to the parking lot, afterwards, before I began a screaming rant about how many things were wrong with that movie. Perhaps it would have been much, much, much shorter, shorter than this post, to say what was right about it.. *

    And that was having missed the assertion that it was the size of Texas.

    Now, having lived in Texas, I can tell you that if you drive east on I-10, as you're leaving, the sign reads mile 899. That makes it not much less than the diameter of the Moon. You *think* astronomers, amateur or professional, might have noticed something that big careening through the solar system. The biggest asteroids are about 1/3 that size.

    If an asteroid the size of Texas was headed earthward, there's a fine old set of instructions from the Cold War as to what to do: go away from all windows, then bend over, and kiss your ass goodbye.

                      mark

    * Fun anecdote, which I got from my late ex, who was an engineer there: when they were filming the scenes at KSC (that's Cape Canaveral to the ignorant), one of the idiot starts climbed up on the Crawler treads, WHILE IT WAS MOVING. A tech yelled at him to get off. He replied, "do you know who I am?"
    The tech responded no, and if he didn't get off and slipped, they'd need DNA analysis to figure out who he was.

  87. You forgot about Naquadah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just wrap the bomb in Naquadah... easy peasy!

  88. Klendathu. by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Which is why we have to attack the bug planet!

    What? Do you apes want to live forever?! HooRah!

  89. University of Leicester annouces... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fiction is not Fact!

    Seriously, it's a movie. For the record: "House" is full of bullshit if you're in medicine, forensics is not like "CSI", hacking is nothing like the movie "Hackers."

    What really makes me sad, is someone is planning on giveing them a degree.

  90. That's simply Assounding! by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

    Next they'll be trying to say guns can't have infantittie bullets!

  91. Scientifically Inaccurate by ks*nut · · Score: 1

    There were at least two disaster by asteroid/comet movies that came out in 1998. Both of them employed STS on steroids, but Armageddon had more scientifically inacurrate information per second than the other one. And it had NASA trademarks plastered all over it.

    1. Re:Scientifically Inaccurate by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

      They just showed the movie as the 'dvd on tv' special. Besides the fairly hot blonde on the show, they mentioned that they had a freaking ton of NASA assistance, including modeling their computers and setups to mimic NASA's control center and having cameras mounted on the gantry during a shuttle launch.

      They said that the computer stuff was so close that actual NASA employees could walk up to one of the machines and actually use it without any training.

  92. But did they ask the right question? by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    Just because they gave an answer doesn't mean they got the math right or, more importantly, even asked the right question. I'm incline to go with Bruce on this one. :)

  93. Re:The premise of the paper is quite narrowly defi by cusco · · Score: 1

    We've only been able to see things in the Oort Cloud for a decade or so, and even then only really, really big things on the inner fringes of the cloud. We haven't yet seen anything sailing through the Solar System from interstellar space, although we know there has to be a lot of junk out there. Declaring that there can't possibly be anything heading for us is a bit presumptuous then, don't you think?

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  94. Easy by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 1

    If asteroids approach earth, we should simply have them form a committee. Five hundred meetings later where they're still arguing what to name themselves, the asteroids will probably fly right by us and forget to slam into the planet entirely.

  95. No Shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thats why he had to fly to the asteroid.

  96. Keep the nut instead of cracking it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there is enough warning that an object is inbound/on a collision course then you add a propulsion system to it and park it in a earth orbit. There is your anchor for a space elevator or something you can colonize as a spacebase, mine it and return the precious materials to earth. Even start small with known NEOs. Ideas borrowed from "The Reality Dysfunction" "The Neutronium Alchemist" and the "Nano Flower" although there will be better examples out there.

  97. You're still wrong, read it a 3rd time by Albinoman · · Score: 1

    So, what part of "the asteroid would need to be split" are you not understanding? They've stated that the movie's scenario, especially is distance, would need a massive explosion. They're giving the distance that the movie's bomb would need to work. If you read the actual paper linked in the article they say:

    "The distance from the Earth at which the bomb is detonated is taken as 63,000 miles (101000km) [2]."