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Ask Slashdot: Protecting Data From a Carrington Event?

kactusotp writes "I run a small indie game company, and since source code is kind of our lifeblood, I'm pretty paranoid about backups. Every system has a local copy, servers run from a RAID 5 NAS, we have complete offsite backups, backup to keyrings/mobile phones, and cloud backups in other countries as well. With all the talk about solar flares and other such near-extinction events lately, I've been wondering: is it actually possible to store or protect data in such a way that if such an event occurred, data survives and is recoverable in a useful form? Optical and magnetic media would probably be rendered useless by a large enough solar flare, and storing source code/graphics in paper format would be impractical to recover, so Slashdot, short of building a Faraday cage 100 km below the surface of the Moon, how could you protect data to survive a modern day Carrington event?"

262 of 386 comments (clear)

  1. Don't panic! by jmorris42 · · Score: 5, Informative

    First step is to stop listening to the hype. Yes it would be bad for the large power distribution infrastructure but no solar flare is going to erase optical discs that doesn't also wipe out most life on the planet. It isn't going to erase hard drives that aren't destroyed by the power events that happen in the first few minutes. So a copy in your safe will still be readable. Remember, the safe is metal and entirely enclosed. In other words it is a Faraday Cage. I really don't know how flash memory will react to a strong electro-magnetic field but my money on it also surviving so long as it isn't connected to anything when the balloon goes up. Kinda hard to induce much of a voltage across nanoscale features. And these observations also apply to an EMP attack.

    It things really get bad you might have trouble finding a working system to connect that backup to and electricity to start it up with but if it gets that bad you won't be worrying about the source code to some damned game, you will be worried about God, Gold and Guns at that point.

    While making those elaborate plans to protect your data you might also want to take a few precautions to ensure you are there to need that data when the dust settles. Do you have a bug out bag? Is it fresh? Do you have an escape plan? Odds are that if you are an indie game dev you live in one of the hives where venture capital can be found and everyone there is toast within days; the trucks stop rolling when the gas pumps stop working, the shelves empty and canibalism begins. Do you have a destination in mind? Do you have a few days of survival supplies stashed to allow you a chance to get to it?

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This fool is beyond our help -- he thinks optical media will be toasted, so you can bet he'll just label your antihype as denial or conspiracy misinformation so he can maintain his ludicrous delusion.

    2. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are correct about flash memory not being particularly vulnerable to EM. I work in data sterilization and modern degaussers that are used by a lot of government agencies to nuke their hard drives are completely ineffective on solid-state drives.

    3. Re:Don't panic! by MitchDev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a true "Extinction Event" occurs, no one will be alive to care about your data...

    4. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to Wikipedia, a storm of this magnitude happens only once every 500 years or so.

      Since one just happened about a hundred years back, the question is largely irrelevant.

      While you're reading Wikipedia, look up "Gambler's fallacy". The fact that such an event occurred relatively recently has no effect on the probability that will happen in the near future.

    5. Re:Don't panic! by Nutria · · Score: 1

      That a big, fat statistics *FAIL*!

      Unless you're being sarcastic, in which case you did a very bad job of that, too.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:Don't panic! by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      You are assuming that it's a random event. Kind of like earthquakes, we can't predict when they will happen but it's certain that we will not have to major earthquakes at the same location on the same fault line. Once you've had one, it takes time for the conditions to arise again.

    7. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If static discharge can damage one [and i assure you that they can be damaged by sufficient static discharge], then a carrington event certainly can.

      Here's a hint: If a geomagnetic storm is strong enough to cause sparks to be emitted from near by power, telephone, and telegraph lines, do NOT stick your optical media into those emitted sparks.

      If you follow this simple warning, your optical media will be safe from geomagnetic storms.*

      * (Protection not guaranteed for rioting, looting, or people acting stupid in response to such a storm. Protection does not apply to high frequency magnetic oscillations, such as near an induction heater. In the event of a geomagnetic storm induced by a magnetar colliding with Earth, your mileage may vary.)

    8. Re:Don't panic! by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In complete agreement with this, but a bit more elaboration is needed IMHO.

      If a full-on Carrington Event irreparably blows the electrical grid, you're going to have a hard time finding something that would compile your source code, let alone having an audience to sell your final products to.

      If electricity blew out for a few days, no biggie. On the other hand, something that damned big may well take out power for months, if not years. Same goes for most modern trucks, trains, and ships - specifically their computer-run engine controllers. Without transportation, most cities would see grocery stores run out of food within 3-5 days. Most home have an average of 1 day up to two weeks of food in a given pantry. The military could conceivably step in as most of their vehicles are hardened against frickin' nuclear EMPs, but there are only so many mil-spec vehicles to go around (less in the US, when you consider how many of them are currently in the Mideast right now). Long story short, relief would be haphazard at best, and would certainly not reach anyone who isn't in one of the top 5-10 metro areas of your country.

      The rest just comes apart from there.

      I'm a sysadmin. I take a rather paranoid approach to DR/BC measures. On the other hand, if something like the sun going apeshit to Carrington levels happened and blew out the infrastructure? Fuck it - I wouldn't even go into work at that point, because we would all have much bigger problems to tackle than a screaming CEO.

      I do disagree with parent about relying solely on a "bug-out bag". Unless you live in a dense urban area where you have no other choice? Once you leave home you're a refugee, period. 3 days worth of food will run out pretty quickly, and if panic truly set in, I doubt you'd find much shelter beyond whatever the government might provide.

      Long story short? You will save yourself a lot of grief and money by preparing your datacenter/source/whatever for the more common outage causes. Anything beyond the typical stuff (fire, flood, hacking, etc) is likely going to make you question whether or not civilization as we know it will even survive - and I'm fairly sure that you place your family/spouse/kids/etc at a far higher priority than a bunch of source code to a game.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:Don't panic! by cpu6502 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He probably saw that Nicholos Cage movie two nights ago about a sun EM pulse that "destroyed the ozone layer" and then wiped-out all on mankind in a fiery inferno (even people 1 mile below ground). Hence a massive loss of data.

      Of course no EM pulse could destroy the ozone layer, and even if it did it wouldn't matter because it's the *magnetosphere* that protects us from EM events and that was still intact.

      Plus even if something did set the world afire with flames, the event would not effect the humans living on the dark side of the earth. The U.S. might be toasted but China, Russia, and most of Europe would still be alive & well. (With their 24 hour news channels talking about the death of the heathen Americans... it was an act of God, Allah, Buddha, whatever.)

      Basically this is a ridiculous "Ask Slashdot" arising from too many ridiculous Hollywood terror/fear films.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    10. Re:Don't panic! by rgbrenner · · Score: 5, Informative

      aluminum substrate to write on

      No. that's not right at all. The aluminum is only used as a reflective layer. A CDR/DVDR is:

      1. printed label/printable surface
      2. aluminum
      3. dye
      4. clear plastic substrate

      On a blank disc the laser goes through the dye and is reflected by the aluminum.

      When the laser writes to the disc, it (basically) burns the dye.

      When the burnt area is read by the laser, it is not reflected back by the aluminum. (so now you have 1s and 0s)

    11. Re:Don't panic! by Internetuser1248 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First step is to stop listening to the hype. Yes it would be bad for the large power distribution infrastructure but no solar flare is going to erase optical discs that doesn't also wipe out most life on the planet.

      The thing that surprised me was that someone who thinks most life on the planet is going to be wiped out is concerned about source code. Who is going to play your games when civilisation is reduced to rubble? You think people fighting over post apocalyptic resources are going to give a shit about some indy game? I am also an indy developer and I thought my delusions of grandeur were about as big as they get. I tell myself I can revolutionise the video gaming paradigm. Even I am not deluded enough to think that my work would have any value whatsoever if the actual species was under threat. Get a copy of Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica or the complete works of Albert Einstein, or Nikola Tesla... bury that shit in an airtight metal box 100km beneath the surface of the moon. Indy games... yeah, right.

    12. Re:Don't panic! by rgbrenner · · Score: 1

      didn't make this very clear: those are the layers of the disc in order.

    13. Re:Don't panic! by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
      Anything beyond the typical stuff (fire, flood, hacking, etc) is likely going to make you question whether or not civilization as we know it will even survive - and I'm fairly sure that you place your family/spouse/kids/etc at a far higher priority than a bunch of source code to a game.

      You clearly lack experience of the end of civilisation as we know it! Realistically, in any such senario, the other games providers will be trashed, and if you are the only games provider...

      1) Profit!!!!!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    14. Re:Don't panic! by flyingsquid · · Score: 5, Funny
      TRANSCRIPT: EMERGENCY STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE BY ALL NEWS AGENCIES AND EMERGENCY BROADCAST CHANNELS. "My fellow Americans. I stand before you as President to tell you that at 12:03 AM Eastern Time, a massive asteroid over ten miles in diameter impacted the coast of the North Sea at a speed of over 50,000 miles per hour. This asteroid caused a blast equivalent to over one million of our most powerful H-bombs. At least 100 million souls were killed by the shockwave, but even as we speak, a mile-high tsunami is sweeping across Europe, drowning thousands of years of civilization in the blink of an eye. Molten debris is now being sent hurtling towards us in suborbital trajectories, and will soon ignite wildfires across the globe. Any of you who are unfortunate enough to survive the coming inferno will face an earth that has become a ruined hellscape. With ash blotting out the skies, all crops and plants will wither and die, and the unlucky survivors of civilization will descend into an orgy of cannibalism as they desperately try to consume their friends and families to survive the freezing snows and darkness of our Apocalypse. But I have saved the worst news, the most bitter tidings, for last.

      "For with the destruction of Finland, the source code for 'Angry Birds Rio' has been lost to us. Forever. I ask that you now observe a moment of silence. [chokes back tears]. Perhaps we could have carried on otherwise. Perhaps we could have found the will to carry on. The United States as we knew it would never have survived this catastrophe, but perhaps we could have saved the species, and rebuilt something from the ashes. But not now. With the loss of Angry Birds Rio, all hope has been extinguished. There is simply no reason to carry on living. Even if we could save the species, what would be the point? And so I have decided that, with our remaining resources, the American Government will distribute cyanide capsules to help ease your passing. I will now commit suicide live on camera, to demonstrate to you the proper way to consume the cyanide poison capsule. God have mercy on our souls."

    15. Re:Don't panic! by DJRumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agree. If it ever gets to the point where we are stripped of our protection from the Sun, then worrying about your code for a project is probably a little 'out of scope' in the scheme of things...

    16. Re:Don't panic! by swb · · Score: 1

      If you can arrange for 30 days of potable water, you'll probably end up with a lot of usable "long term" food. I think the biggest survival problem will be clean drinking water.

      You might be in good shape after a week, but desperation will make people drink dirty water that will make them sick, so it could take up to a month for lack of water to thin the herd.

    17. Re:Don't panic! by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      So, once a 9.0 happens, a 7.0 is not counted any more? Or a 5.0?

      Do you even know how earthquakes work? Look up "aftershock".

      http://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/parkfield/repeat.php

    18. Re:Don't panic! by ByOhTek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Chances are if you have to worry about that kind of static discharge from objects not connected the power grid or decently strong batteries in such a storm, you won't have to worry about it, or anything else for that matter, ever again.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    19. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      actually CD-Rs and CD-ROMs differ in make up, iirc Tanenbaum has a nice description of both.

    20. Re:Don't panic! by mellyra · · Score: 1

      Plus even if something did set the world afire with flames, the event would not effect the humans living on the dark side of the earth.

      Why not? Is there some invisible barrier that exists at the threshold of night and day that would keep the event from spreading? It's not like we're on Mercury, where there is a solid scientific reason for why the extreme heat of the day side does not leak over into the night side.

      that barrier is called an ocean and is, in fact, visible^^

    21. Re:Don't panic! by korgitser · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then this must be the case. You, sir, are still an indie developer, but he has transcended and "evolved" into the next stage: he is a hipster developer. Sad but true, the indie is the father of the hipster.
      So it is that you are wrong to look for reason in that one, for the hipster o/s code goes like this:

      reason() { return 0; }
      commonSense() { return 0; }
      realityCheck() { return 0; }

      So whenever we would pause to think something through, to understand something, to get a grip on something, the hipster would already be a step ahead, smiling obliviously on his train of thought, incompetent and unaware of it.

      --
      FCKGW 09F9 42
    22. Re:Don't panic! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Yes it would be bad for the large power distribution infrastructure ...

      From my limited understanding, this is because the power network acts like a HUGE antenna, as well as exposed metal sink, and is directly exposed and affected by extreme solar events that breach the Earth's magnetic field. Any engineers out there to confirm or correct?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    23. Re:Don't panic! by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      You don't suppose a hemisphere sized inferno would have any impact on the atmosphere?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    24. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you can arrange for 30 days of potable water...

      Can't all water be put in pots?

    25. Re:Don't panic! by jpapon · · Score: 1

      That depends on whether solar storms are independent events. It could very well be that the (unknown) mechanism which causes such strong solar storms takes ~500 years to "recharge". It could be that such a storm occurs every (approximately) 500 years, and not that the chance of one occurring in every given year is 1/500th.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    26. Re:Don't panic! by cmburns69 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's ok, though, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Gecko!

      .

      .

      (pun intended)

      --
      Online Starcraft RPG? At
      Dietary fiber is like asynchronous IO-- Non-blocking!
    27. Re:Don't panic! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      While you're reading Wikipedia, look up "Gambler's fallacy". The fact that such an event occurred relatively recently has no effect on the probability that will happen in the near future.

      Like in the beginning of the movie The Fifth Element when the Egyptologist studying the temple hieroglyphs says the evil comes every five thousand years (without knowing when the last event occurred) and his assistant (Luke Perry) says, "so we've got some time."

      [ In this case, it's three hundred years later when the sh*t hits the fan... ]

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    28. Re:Don't panic! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      You are correct about flash memory not being particularly vulnerable to EM. I work in data sterilization and modern degaussers that are used by a lot of government agencies to nuke their hard drives are completely ineffective on solid-state drives.

      Two word solution: Wood Chipper

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    29. Re:Don't panic! by camperdave · · Score: 1

      So a current couldn't be induced into the aluminum layer... why?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    30. Re:Don't panic! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Stupidity in summary corrected on first post, well done.

      Want to protect drives from an EMP just in case? Get a cash box or any other solid metal box that closes tightly, line the inside with non-conductive material, insert drives, enjoy.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    31. Re:Don't panic! by Score+Whore · · Score: 2

      I didn't say successive earthquakes didn't happen. I said there wouldn't be major earthquakes at the same location on the same fault line. There's a pretty large difference between a 9.0 and a 7.0 (1,000 times more energy in the 9.0) and even more so between a 9.0 and a 5.0 (1,000,000 times more energy.) Additionally, and I guess it's my bad for not spelling it out for the literal mindes aspies, but I'm talking about different events. Aftershocks are part of the same event. And if you really want to play the pedantic, asshole card, aftershocks do not share an epicenter with the main shock.

    32. Re:Don't panic! by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      So a current couldn't be induced into the aluminum layer... why?

      sure it could, just watch what happens to a cd in a microwave oven. but then again, if it was really that strong wave from the sun your house would do something funky too and probably your head too. the point is that the data isn't on the aluminum, you could recoat the disc to.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    33. Re:Don't panic! by PetiePooo · · Score: 1

      the hipster would already be a step ahead, smiling obliviously on his train of thought, incompetent and unaware of it.

      Oh, where are my mod points when I need them...

      Well played, sir. If snark was a way to measure midi-chlorians, I'd be sending you to Yoda to give him lessons.

    34. Re:Don't panic! by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

      It can be. Ever see a CD in a microwave?

      Mythbusters did it, plus I'm sure YouTube is rife with videos of similar "experiments"...

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    35. Re:Don't panic! by dmacleod808 · · Score: 2

      Go to Google and type this: "Humour"

      --
      There Can Be Only One...
    36. Re:Don't panic! by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

      The atmosphere at the light/dark termination zone does have some dispersive effect (which is why it's still light after the sun sets), but only a few dozen miles. So if you're in Moscow you will be totally unaware that the U.S. is being fried with 30 minutes of solar radiation. The massive rock we call "the earth" protects you.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    37. Re:Don't panic! by dhanson865 · · Score: 1

      I thought about modding parent up for mentioning the downside to RAID5 with modern hard drives but it was an AC with a score of 0 so most still wouldn't have read it.

      So I'll just do it myself and link to http://www.baarf.com/

      I still don't understand why so many people use RAID 5 when disks and controllers are cheap enought to do RAID 10 or multiple RAID 1 arrays instead. And if you are using enough data that RAID 10 doesn't do it for you then RAID 6 might be a OK solution but I wouldn't recommend any RAID solution unconditionally.

      I will unconditionally recommend against RAID 5 though. And in a similar train of though I'll conditionally recommend against RAID 0 (though it does have valid uses it's often used by those that don't understand the down sides).

    38. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is bullshit. You don't need to ground the Faraday cage. It doesn't matter what is the potential between the cage and the ground/earth. It's a self-contained system, the inside is shielded from the outside. Lightning protection and grounding is only relevant when the system has connections to the outside. If all you want is an isolated Faraday cage, you don't need anything special. Make it from thick enough steel such that it will decently carry lightning currents with "acceptable" resistive voltage drop along the internal surface, and that's about it. For all I care it can be two layers with an insulator between them, so that even large I*R voltage drops on the outside won't propagate to the inner layer (other than by electromagnetic induction -- in that case increase suitably the insulating gap).

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    39. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 1

      Besides, grounding etc. is only effective at fairly low frequencies (100s of kHz to perhaps single MHz). If the transient is fast enough, then the grounding lead is open circuit anyway.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    40. Re:Don't panic! by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that it's random. There's no reason to believe that.

      OTOH, it's also true that we have probably missed detecting most of the similar events, because they were pointed away from us. They may be much more frequent.

      That said, I'd be willing to accept that when one occurs, whether it's aimed at us or not is random. The sun is spinning, we are orbiting, and both Mercury and Venus are closer to the sun than we are. So it's quite unlikely to be synchronized to our orbital position.

      Then there's the question of how centrally in the focus of the event we are, and how centrally we were at the time of the Carrington event. (I don't know. Perhaps nobody does.) And was that a maximal event, or just an unusually strong one?

      Yet again there are signs that the Earth's magnetic fields are getting ready for a reversal. This is preceded by a weakening of the Magnetosphere. So we may currently be more than usually vulnerable to such an event.

      Notice a bunch of perhaps-es? Basically, I agree with everyone else. Take reasonable precautions: back up to optical media or flash devices, or both. Keep copies of your backups at secure off-site storage. And figure that if something REALLY bad happens you'll have more important things to worry about than your source code.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    41. Re:Don't panic! by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 2

      It would take a rather thick, highly magnetic material to make a Faraday cage at those frequencies

      Like oh, a BIG THICK STEEL SAFE, maybe?

      something that shields from DC magnetic theories

      *Sticks Fingers in Ears* LA LA LA LA LA! -- I am shielded from all theories now!

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    42. Re:Don't panic! by HiThere · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OTOH, have you considered punch cards? They are essentially impervious to electrical and magnetic pulses.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    43. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And in some unlikely event that the worst actually does occur...

      (Re)starting civilization, it's so simple even a caveman can do it!

    44. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Our typical power distribution infrastructure is designed to cope with 50/60Hz loads. Any overload at 0.1Hz or less will likely destroy it. At such frequencies the transformers turn into resistors (core saturation), the breakers turn into slightly dissipative shunts, and a lot of fires and explosions ensue. If you want to blow up a power distribution transformer, temporarily connect a DC current source providing 3-5x rated winding RMS current to the middle phase. The compliance of the current source probably needs to be "only" up to 4-8x the RMS voltage rating, that should be enough to keep the breakers arcing over. In a minute or so the transformer is gone (or going and self sustaining), and you can connect to the next one to keep at it.

      It would only be bad for the power distribution infrastructure because said infrastructure isn't designed to deal with "almost DC" induced voltages. All the breakers likely won't interrupt large DC currents at all -- there will be a sustained arc that won't extinguish that will keep the current flowing. The transformers will get destroyed when their cores saturate and due to DC currents flowing through the phase conductors. Upon saturation, the transformer is no more inductive, it becomes a resistor that converts all the incoming energy to heat. Realistically, that means an oil explosion in short order in oil cooled types. Air cooled ones will catch fire when the insulation is hot enough to combust (the copper will heat it up, so it's not like there'd be much in the way of heatsinking going on).

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    45. Re:Don't panic! by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > (Re)starting civilization, it's so simple even a caveman can do it!


      Restarting civilization, it's so simple even an IT Tech could do it. Unless civilization is running LILO.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    46. Re:Don't panic! by Paracelcus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The "extinction level event" will be a 1. Government gone mad (see Germany 1936) 2. A total world banking breakdown (see 1929) 3 A man made environmental collapse (see A Path Where No Man Thought by Cal Sagan/Richard Turco & other similar books).

      You need
      A remote hiding place
      A deep water well
      Firewood/seeds
      Cached supplies (scattered/buried/hidden)
      Gas Masks
      Solar Cell/Power
      Guns/Ammo

      Data? Screw data! Food, Water, Protection, heat! AND A VERY LOW PROFILE!!

      --
      I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
    47. Re:Don't panic! by frisket · · Score: 1

      According to Wikipedia, a storm of this magnitude happens only once every 500 years or so.

      On average.

      Since one just happened about a hundred years back, the question is largely irrelevant.

      The hallmark of random arrival is clustering.

    48. Re:Don't panic! by frisket · · Score: 1

      OTOH, have you considered punch cards? They are essentially impervious to electrical and magnetic pulses.

      But, sadly, not to the firestorm that the movies would have us believe is our lot.

      Nor to survivors seeking combustibles to heat the cookpot.

    49. Re:Don't panic! by Above · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Haphazard sure, but I think you actually underestimate how resourceful people would be in that situation.

      Take food. Will you be able to pop over to McD's and get a burger and fries for $1.99. No way. Totally dependent on the supply chain. Will your grocery store have Cheerios? Probably not. However there is a lot of food still grown and processed locally. So if you live in corn country that may be all you eat for a month. Maybe you live in peanut land and better hope you don't have an allergy. Plenty of simple diesel farm tractors and old pickups that could be put to use transporting the stuff locally. Guess what, with most cars out of commission there's plenty of gas in your local gas station to power them for a long time as well.

      EMP's would not take out many small generators, dirtbikes, gokarts, and other assorted engines which have no electronics. Hand tools and such would still work. The amount of crap Americans have in their garages that goes unused with modern conveniences is huge, and would be put to use. Flash drives and optical disks would be largely unaffected. With a small amount of warning precautions could be taken to protect a lot of assets.

      Don't get me wrong, such an event would be hugely disruptive. It would take years for life to return to normal. While the impact would be in different areas, Katrina provides some evidence. Would it be worse because less help could come from further away? Sure. Would it be the end of society as we know it? I don't think so at all.

      Keeping his source code safe is easy. Write it to optical, flash, and hard drives. Store all three in a faraday cage enclosure that is grounded. If you want to be crazy paranoid pay one of the vault places that keeps it deep underground in a mine converted to storage. Done and done, doesn't even cost that much. Will anyone care should such an event happen? Doubtful.

    50. Re:Don't panic! by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      Amazing! Not only;
      1. First Post
      2. Entirely Accurate
      3. Eminently Reasonable
      4. Properly Focused

      If I ever got any Mod points, and if there were a category for "Brilliant", you'd get them. Nicely done!

    51. Re:Don't panic! by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      Please note that any such solar event would almost certainly last several hours, and in 12 hours the night side would BE the day side. That was the major logical flaw in the Larry Niven story "Inconstant Moon".

    52. Re:Don't panic! by ImprovOmega · · Score: 2

      Makes me think of this XKCD

    53. Re:Don't panic! by PIBM · · Score: 1, Informative

      Not even remotely funny.

      Just in case, from http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/potable :

      Definition of POTABLE: suitable for drinking

    54. Re:Don't panic! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Thank you for such an interesting and detailed explanation on "how to destroy a power station." I'm sure gentlemen in dark suits and sunglasses will be around this evening to thank you as well and tell you about this list you're now on... Enjoy! :-)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    55. Re:Don't panic! by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The technical discussions are rendered irrelevant by the simple fact that, if such an event occurred as to damage his operation, it would also damage the computers his market needs to run his software. Source code for a game would be worthless in the event of such a calamity so who cares if it's saved?

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    56. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Like oh, a BIG THICK STEEL SAFE, maybe?

      The skin depth of a 1 mHz (milli, not mega) signal in structural steel is on the order of a meter. This means, even a steel safe with meter thick walls would only block out about 2/3 of the oscillating signal, as far as acting like a Faraday cage.

      something that shields from DC magnetic theories

      That is a horrible typo^H^H^H^H bad joke... should be "better off with something that protects from DC magnetic fields." The point being, you can block the magnetic field with something like a steel safe which would be pretty good as a DC magnetic shield, but it would not be a Faraday cage. A Faraday cage uses a different principle that gets better at high frequencies (and hence worse at lower frequencies).

    57. Re:Don't panic! by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      One word: Microwave.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    58. Re:Don't panic! by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 3

      What bugged me was that the whole idea is so dumb I couldn't slide in a joke in the guise of legitimate suggestion to use really thick punch cards..

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    59. Re:Don't panic! by EdIII · · Score: 3, Funny

      I read this Morgan Freeman's voice and I still have tears streaming down my face I am laughing so hard.

      +5 funny indeed.

    60. Re:Don't panic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Did you even read it? And worse, did the people modding this parent AC up to five even read it?

      ... but no solar flare is going to erase optical discs that doesn't also wipe out most life on the planet

    61. Re:Don't panic! by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Which is why the most valuable asset you will have is technology that can make drinking water safe.

      If I make it into a grocery store the first thing I am going after is the Brita water filters.

    62. Re:Don't panic! by julesh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Two word solution: Wood Chipper

      Not a good solution. Most flash chips are 48TSOP packages (12mmx18.4mm). Most wood chippers have 1" (25.4mm) spacing between blades. Chances are very high that your flash chip will pass straight through without damage and only the packaging will be mangled.

    63. Re:Don't panic! by julesh · · Score: 1

      the hipster o/s code goes like this:

      reason() { return 0; }
      commonSense() { return 0; }
      realityCheck() { return 0; }

      That is so true. A hipster would never code an OS in something so pedestrian it required you to declare the return types of functions.

    64. Re:Don't panic! by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 1

      Last time around cavemen had easy access to plentiful resources (coal, metals, oil) close to the surface. Caveman will have to wait a while for this to be true again, by which time caveman will have evolved into something else.

    65. Re:Don't panic! by niado · · Score: 1

      with that spelling, he'll need UK Google!

    66. Re:Don't panic! by Splab · · Score: 2

      Not only that, he is talking about extinction level events - if that happens, your data is the last of your worries.

    67. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 1

      Every electrical engineer probably knows this perfectly well. Everyone who isn't one -- well, good luck with that 100kA 30kVDC current source. You can't exactly buy it in Walmart. The explanation is perfectly useless to anyone who doesn't have specialist knowledge. It's like detailed instructions for a thermonuclear weapon. Good luck making one if you don't already know how (or most of it, anyway).

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    68. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 1

      It being an antenna is irrelevant. The effects we're talking about are close to DC. It's not an antenna but a large single-turn transformer winding. So, what it is, is a bunch of perfectly kosher low impedance loops. Every pair of phase wires (or phase+neutral) makes such a beautiful loop, stretching over miles of countryside. Give the loop enough loop area, let the *large* magnetic field change, but slowly, and voila -- the loop is a big transformer, and slowly changing (50Hz) currents get induced in it. The rest of the power grid is not designed to cope with such "almost" DC currents and promptly indicates the same by, in minor cases, tripping a lot of breakers as the control circuits detect unwanted DC -- thus blackouts.

      In more major cases, the breakers will trip but won't interrupt the current because their interrupting capacity at DC is *way* smaller than at AC. A breaker with 100kA interrupting capacity at 50Hz may have only 10kA interrupting capacity at DC (or even less), as an example. Some breakers have no interrupting capacity at DC to speak of -- even a small current, like 1A on a 100kA breaker, may well generate a self-sustaining arc. So if you put more than 100kA DC through it, it will trip, but it won't do anything. Heck, at say 50kA DC it won't trip, but the transformers may well have their cores getting driven into saturation and getting much hotter than the RMS current would indicate. When the control system or operators decide they have to trip the breakers to protect the transformers, the breakers will open, but the current won't stop flowing.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    69. Re:Don't panic! by kactusotp · · Score: 2

      Grab the glassware first from a medical supplier. Tight fitting glassware plus source of fire > distillation, and you can pretty much have all the potable water you can drink.

    70. Re:Don't panic! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Krakatoa changed air pressure enough to be heard around the world. Heating a hemisphere of atmosphere is likely to be a vastly bigger boom.
      Anyway, this reminds me of the opening sequence of the anime "Stellvia" where a gamma ray burster some light years away makes a mess of at least half the earth. The story is set some centuries later when the rebuilt high tech society is trying to deal with the later wave of incoming solid material moving at a decent percentage of the speed of light.

    71. Re:Don't panic! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It depends on the controller. Some stuff just cannot do RAID6 very well (a vendor dumped on of those on me when I'd asked for a different controller), and sometimes RAID5 is good enough for the job. A holding area for backups before they end up on tape doesn't really need to be RAID at all but sometimes it's handy to have one redundant disk, since RAID is all about avoiding downtime anyway. So I'd say RAID5 is OK where redundancy is convenient instead of absolutely necessary.
      To paraphrase a proverb: Trust in RAID but make sure you have decent backups first.

    72. Re:Don't panic! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It does also involve getting onto the site, which for me in at least five occasions when I had to go on site before I was authorised to get on site (have to do a site induction to get a gate pass but the induction was held inside the gate), involved just putting on work clothes and walking right in the gate. Terrorists have better ways to scare people than just putting the lights out for a while, so incoming security at such places is normally pointless busywork with the real job being making sure nobody walks out the gate with anything expensive.

    73. Re:Don't panic! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      ... good luck with that 100kA 30kVDC current source. You can't exactly buy it in Walmart. ... It's like detailed instructions for a thermonuclear weapon. Good luck making one if you don't already know how (or most of it, anyway).

      Don't give Walmart any ideas.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    74. Re:Don't panic! by jedwidz · · Score: 3, Funny

      That was awesome but now my discs don't play?

    75. Re:Don't panic! by jedwidz · · Score: 1

      Sorry should've read your post more carefully. Now off to get me a CD repair kit...

    76. Re:Don't panic! by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the sensitivity of flash memory, but a degausser erases with a magnetic field, and I would worry about the strong electric field.
      A strong electric field means large voltages between two distant points. Of course the voltages are negligible on the scale of the actual flash memory, but the problem are the connections.

    77. Re:Don't panic! by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 3, Informative

      Brita water filters (or any other water filters who's input is typically tap water) will NOT make water potable!!! You need to get the proper ones from an outdoors store. If you've ever used a REAL water filter (for camping), you'll understand why such a filter would not be feasible in a household. Now if you can find the big canister ones that mount under the sink, they MIGHT make water potable, but you better check the specs on it first.

    78. Re:Don't panic! by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      Why would you need tight fighting glassware? Any pot (glass, metal, etc) can be used to boil water long enough to make it safe for drinking.

    79. Re:Don't panic! by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 1

      What good is data if you are unable to read it?

    80. Re:Don't panic! by TheLink · · Score: 1

      The Amish might wonder why suddenly they have so many visitors... ;)

      Seriously though, I don't think it would be such a big deal. People would work overtime to restore power ASAP. In many places they are used to dealing with stuff failing due to lightning and fixing it. If powerful lightning bolts strike nearby and your stuff still doesn't fry (surge protection etc), I doubt a Carrington Event will fry it either.

      So think of it as the equivalent of very many lightning storms around the world for a few days, albeit without as much incendiary effect (not as many forest fires). It'll be expensive, insurance companies will try to weasel out blaming "God" etc, but we will recover fairly quickly.

      We'd be doomed if it was anything way beyond that.

      --
    81. Re:Don't panic! by TheLink · · Score: 1

      He did mention Carrington Events. Carrington Events aren't extinction level events anymore than severe lightning storms are extinction events.

      As for a major asteroid/comet strike, that would be an extinction level event that we MIGHT be able to do something about if we detected it soon enough.

      We don't need to worry about the sun going nova, since there's nothing we can do about it at the moment.

      --
    82. Re:Don't panic! by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Not that the caveman cared about any of those, it wouldn't be until the iron age or so that fossile fuels would be an issue, and charcoal is easy to make and could likely carry civilization through at least the beginnings of an industrialization. (assuming they go that way - there are other options for all that we like tend to believe that our way is best/inevitable). They may not be able to support the massive population growth that cheap energy permitted but that could actually turn out for the best.

      As for metal (not to mention rare earths) - you've got to be kidding me. I doubt there has ever before been a time when so much metal was readily available on the surface of the planet, and all conveniently pre-refined into very pure forms and/or useful alloys. Dumps and wrecking yards will be the new mineral mother-loads. Much of it will have rusted away if civilisation takes more than a century or three to get going again - but what's left is highly pure oxide nuggets and/or metal-rich soil that would be the envy of any Fertile Crescent metalurgist.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    83. Re:Don't panic! by camperdave · · Score: 1

      The heat from the eddy currents in the aluminum would destroy the dye.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    84. Re:Don't panic! by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 1

      You do that while I grab several packs of sheer tights and a couple of gallons of unpurfumed bleach.

      Filter out the solids, add a dash of bleach and let it stand in the sun for a few hours. That's what the water company does in a nutshell.

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    85. Re:Don't panic! by mellyra · · Score: 1

      Well, I understood "set the world afire with flames" basically as "wildfires everywhere" not "setting the atmosphere ablaze" - and I think such an event would of course affect the atmosphere and oceans.

      My point was that the oceans would absorb a lot of the heat that released by the fires (remember that ocean water has about 4x the heat capacity (per mass) of our atmosphere and there is a lot of ocean water) and form an effectively insurmountable barrier for any flames. I would be much more concerned about secondary effects like ash clouds rather than direct heat/flames.

    86. Re:Don't panic! by Urkki · · Score: 1

      That's still not isolated events and "Gambler's fallacy" still does not apply. On the contrary the likelyhood of having smaller earthquakes after a big one is pretty high, up to 100% depending on what you count as earthquake.

    87. Re:Don't panic! by LourensV · · Score: 1

      at 12:03 AM Eastern Time, a massive asteroid over ten miles in diameter impacted the coast of the North Sea at a speed of over 50,000 miles per hour.

      That's right on my head you insensitive clod!

    88. Re:Don't panic! by silentcoder · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is true of CDR's and other write-able media but NOT of (most) mass-printed optical media (though cheaper mass-printers have moved to this model now to save on industrial equipment).

      Mass-printed media is much less likely to be damaged because they don't even contain dye. They are effectively PHYSICAL storage. A layer in the disk contains little bumps and dips. Dips reflect the lazer back, bumps scatter it, thus giving you 1's on dips and 0's on bumps.

      This is one reason why you may well find your CD's from the 1990's still play fine even with a lot of scratches while CD's you bought in the mid-2000's are unusable. Many of the latter are dye-printed, which is much cheaper - but a far less reliable thing, the slightest discolouration throws the reader off while bump/dip optical media it's the actual physical shape of the disk that holds the information which is much less vulnerable to wear and tear.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    89. Re:Don't panic! by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Do you know what two layers of conductive material with an insulator between them is called ? A capacitor. Literally - you just described the definition of a capacitor as a suitable design for a Faraday cage.

      Hint - a capacitor is most decidedly NOT a Faraday cage. Capacitors store electric charge, they don't prevent induction.

      This is why a Faraday cage needs to be sealed on ALL sides, and metal on the sides must all be conductively connected, you can't make one out of two layers !

      That said -you're right about not needing to ground it if it's thick enough.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    90. Re:Don't panic! by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      The point is that large earthquakes release energy rapidly (in geological terms) which takes a moderate to long time to build up again. Twelve years is long to a human, but not that long in terms of plate tectonics. A second earthquake equal to or greater in strength than the original is highly unlikely in a short time period, due to the need to rebuild significant amounts of stress.

      Since we're getting rather far from the reason for the analogy, if the cycle of large solar flares is caused by a similar stress build-up and release process then the gambler's fallacy may not apply, since the events would not be independent.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    91. Re:Don't panic! by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      Aaah, but once you no longer need the game due to a solar-flare caused apocalypse you'll have plenty of punch cards with which to heat the cookpot!

      --
      Not a sentence!
    92. Re:Don't panic! by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      Four letters: FOOF.

      Or Dioxygen Difluoride, if you want the IUPAC name. Not that it's as common a household item as a wood chipper or dispos-all, but it will surely get the job done.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    93. Re:Don't panic! by epine · · Score: 1

      While you're reading Wikipedia, look up "Gambler's fallacy". The fact that such an event occurred relatively recently has no effect on the probability that will happen in the near future.

      You yourself might wish to read the fine print: this only applies to a memoryless process. The Sun is a lot bigger than an elephant ... or an ocean. An ocean remembers a lot.

    94. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 1

      Pray tell explain the mechanism of grounding helping with anything.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    95. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 2

      I'd have hoped I was obvious enough. In order to prevent from I*R voltage drops, you put a box in a box. With insulator between them. Faraday cage inside of a Faraday cage. When the exterior one gets hit by lightning, there'll be perhaps nasty I*R drops, imagine a continuous metal wall suddenly developing, say 10V/cm potential difference along the direction of lightning current's average flow. How is your capacitor rant relevant I don't see, neither do I see why you thought I implied open boxes...

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    96. Re:Don't panic! by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      What you described sounded like sticking two pieces of place on a sheet of plastic (presumably thick enough that you can put a hole in the middle to hold the data media). You have to admit, that description did not inspire confidence.
      What you now clarified should cover most scenarios I agree.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    97. Re:Don't panic! by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

      "Sorry, but #1 and #2 weren't "Extinction level events""

      When it's your family that's killed, it is!

      --
      I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
    98. Re:Don't panic! by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1
      Because storage vendors sell their gear to CxO's with unformatted, RAID0 storage capacities... and leave it to the storage admin to explain to said CxO why his 110TB SAN is full with about 50TB of data (once formatted and RAID'ed). And quite often these purchases are made without any real knowledge or often consulting the storage admin to explain why the salesman for EMC is completely batshit crazy. Simple fact is; RAID 5 maximizes the storage capacity while allowing some semblance of redundancy. Is it a good solution? Oh hell no... I'd love to build everything RAID10 but until someone who has actually been a storage admin elevates to that level and knows to ask the awkward questions it just isn't going to happen. We are going through this right now with a storage refresh where I work... and yes, I'm the storage guy. The thing is; the people writing the checks are going to be the ones who dictate usage of RAID 5 because the sales rep oversold the capacity and my job is to make it work. I have worked for a number of different companies and they all have varying degrees of the same problem (I've also been the storage engineer on the other side). And the sad thing is, no matter how many times you go through this with your management they never quite seem to understand.

      Then you have the problem of explaining to them why your storage costs 10 times per gigabyte what a hard disk from Best Buy will cost.

      RAID 5 has its place until the storage vendors start getting honest and selling their gear as FORMATTED, RAID'ed capacity. Not going to happen because they all think that bigger is better.

    99. Re:Don't panic! by konoame · · Score: 1

      The particles need time to travel from the sun before they hit, and within moments after a massive flare has been detected, an early warning should have spread worldwide. Can we prevent damage to electrical grids by disconnecting grids, substations and power stations, so that the surge won't affect much of the system? The surge will still be there but I think the effect can be minimized because no current is flowing in the grid and all components are practically isolated from others.

    100. Re:Don't panic! by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      Tight fitting glassware, a thermometer, and a source of heat you can control allows you to capture the liquid that boils off at exactly 100 C. You boil off organics etc first, raise temp slowly, collect vapors that phase change at 100C, that is your safe to drink water, and toss out the stuff that is left behind eg water with lots of heavy metals (these can also make you very sick). Repeat several times if heavy contamination suspected or to be extra sure.

    101. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 1

      Many such sites don't have a 24/7 human presence anyway. There are multiple such half-acre substations within a couple miles of where I live. Those would be more than sufficient.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    102. Re:Don't panic! by tibit · · Score: 1

      That's all fine and dandy until there's a dielectric breakdown somewhere. The components are isolated, but that means you have huge unloaded loops of wire exposed to large but slowly variable magnetic fields. Presumably if the field can induce huge currents, in absence of the currents you'll get huge voltages, until eventually the current starts flowing. It's like with an automotive induction coil: the only thing preventing it from developing arbitrarily large voltage is the inevitable breakdown somewhere, and dissipation (including EM radiation). You will get high voltages followed by high currents, that's my bet, and once those high currents start flowing well, there'll be nothing to stop them. Now, there obviously are geomagnetic storms of various strengths, it'd take an extraordinary one to wreak havoc, but there's a threshold effect at play: if it's good enough to break down a dozen substations, it's probably good enough to break down everything everywhere. Once the field is strong and variable enough to break down breakers in a couple of substations, it's unlikely that further variations won't break down everything else in short order. Futher, fires caused by initial breakdowns are likely to produce enough ions and particulates to lower breakdown voltages across entire substation.

      Basically either you have a geomagnetic storm that's easy to deal with in spite of isolated problems, perhaps even blackouts due to grid's fragility in presence of those problems, or you have something where in a couple minutes every substation on the planet with long wires attached to it is blowing up. Presumably isolated producer-consumer systems with short haul will be OK -- think a small hydroelectric plant feeding a settlement nearby.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    103. Re:Don't panic! by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I'd say the best advice above all is DON'T PANIC. Every time something nasty happens its always the panicked ones getting screwed over, a little common sense, a little thought ahead of time, and you are good to go. I always try to keep at least a week's worth of canned goods and Gatoraide (in the south water is fine, but if you don't replace the salt you sweat out in the heat you can get in a bad way all too quickly) along with enough gas in my truck if the excrement really hits the bladed cooling device i can always go visit my country relatives who have generators and plenty of foodstuffs. I've already talked to them and as long as I bring the trucks and the movies we're always welcome.

      Now as far as data? Having a spare PC in the closet not plugged in is always a good thing, even if there isn't a disaster you never know when you are gonna blow a PSU or have a board die and with the Tiger kits being so damned cheap its really no major cost. Multi-Tb USB drives are pretty affordable and so is a little wall or floor safe, put them together as you said and there is the data solved, and if you want to have a spare mobile I've picked up plenty of returns from Cowboom and those Acer dual core netbooks are right at $200 and will fit in a safe just fine, just break it out to charge it once a month and you'll have portable goodness on tap. Nice thing about those little netbooks is they are so low power you can run them on just about anything, car adapter, charge 'em off a generator, hell I wouldn't be surprised if you could charge one with a solar charger but I've never tried.

      But everyone should always have enough supplies for at least a week or two on hand, that's just common sense. After all there are earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, lots of different things could cause your area to go without for a few days and having supplies ready just in case is really something everyone should have around. Just be sure to check the dates regularly and use the stuff getting close to expiration while replacing it with fresh and you'll always be prepared.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    104. Re:Don't panic! by smaddox · · Score: 1

      That's because flash memory uses electric charge, rather than magnetic "charge". Degaussing won't do a think. 10,000 Volts, on the other hand...

  2. Wow... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    With all the talk about solar flares and other such near-extinction events lately, I've been wondering: is it actually possible to store or protect data in such a way that if such an event occurred...

    So you're worried you might go extinct or even worse... expelled?

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  3. Dumbass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow, this is one of the most retarded questions to date and that's saying something for an "Ask Slashdot" question.

    1. Re:Dumbass... by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      Wow, this is one of the most retarded questions to date and that's saying something for an "Ask Slashdot" question.

      Yeah. Joan can't possibly interfer with Blake's things anymore as he's R.I.P.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Dumbass... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's a bummer your post was modded down. You bring up a good point, it's really hard to get past this guy's warped sense of priorities.

      I propose a do-over. How about instead of asking how to protect his video game in the event of global catastrophe, how about just a discussion of how we (as a society I mean) bank a few things so that if that event does come it doesn't turn out as bad as what happened in Dark Angel? For example, what if the US Gov't built a vault somewhere that could supposedly survive this even and stored a few computers with tons of data about history, technology, maybe a backup of Wikipedia, etc?

      Well my idea may be dumb but I have to say a discussion about that would be way more interesting to me.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:Dumbass... by WillDraven · · Score: 1

      I'm down. Who wants to help start the Foundation?

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    4. Re:Dumbass... by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      IIRC, the Foundation started with a bunch of nerds enthusiasticlly building a giant encyclopedia containing the entire knowledge of civilization. I think it's safe to say that would never happen.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:Dumbass... by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      Yeah! And on a related note: I am responsible top backups at my company, and I'm very worried about how to make backups last beyond the eventual heat death of the universe. Does anyone have ant idead/suggestions?

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    6. Re:Dumbass... by cmdr_klarg · · Score: 1

      I think you're reading into the OP a little too closely. He is not asking about saving his game code, he is talking about saving data in general from a catastrophe.

      In other words, his efforts to keep his own important data safe lead him to think about what steps would be needed to save the *really* important data.

      --
      THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
    7. Re:Dumbass... by WillDraven · · Score: 2

      I've got as much love for Wikipedia as anyone, but I think anybody trying to use it to rebuild civilization would be rather frustrated. It's full of articles that let you know things existed, who made them, how popular they were, etc. without enough detail to tell you how to make one yourself.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    8. Re:Dumbass... by kesuki · · Score: 1

      there is a site called the internet archive. they archive 20 gb of data a month or so, or roughly one bd-r disc they use different tech though. http://archive.org/

    9. Re:Dumbass... by julesh · · Score: 2

      I've got as much love for Wikipedia as anyone, but I think anybody trying to use it to rebuild civilization would be rather frustrated. It's full of articles that let you know things existed, who made them, how popular they were, etc. without enough detail to tell you how to make one yourself.

      Well, of course not. Wikipedia is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal.

    10. Re:Dumbass... by julesh · · Score: 1

      You need to build a really powerful artificially intelligent computer in hyperspace, then ask it how to solve the problem.

    11. Re:Dumbass... by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      That was along the line I was hoping the convo would go, not specifically my own data. A nice what if scenario, is there anything we could do to save data. CDR bit was in ref to high UV etc and was a longer question about various near extinction level events. I know indies can have massive egos but its not THAT massive lol

    12. Re:Dumbass... by muridae · · Score: 1

      Then the answer is paper. Hard copy. Because of there is a massive electrical event that fries every computer plugged in, there will be nothing to read your data for several years.

      Why? Every fab plant is computerized now days. Those fabs won't be operating until those chips are replaces and bootstraping them could be tricky. Not my field, but I would figure months before even an old large nm foundry is back online. To get back to current production levels and prices, those first chips will go to building new chip fabrication plants. Unless Intel or AMD have their data backed up in paper, someone will need to design a new common CPU; besides, what better reason to get rid of X86 16bit compatibility? Then eventually, consumer level chips and things like optical drives. Maybe all the lithograpy is still actual lithographs and not digital, but I doubt it.

      In the end, a major emp event is nature thumbing its nose at geeks. You can be prepared, but you won't keep your source code.

    13. Re:Dumbass... by CptNerd · · Score: 1

      Heck with the Foundation, I want to join the Second Foundation...

      --
      By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
    14. Re:Dumbass... by dwye · · Score: 1

      Insufficient Data For A Meaningful Answer

  4. Least of your worries by hairykrishna · · Score: 5, Informative

    The only mechanism I can think of which would case a solar flare to render optical disks unreadable would be radiation damage. A solar flare which delivered that kind of dose would likely wipe out all life on earth so you probably wouldn't be worrying about your backups.

    --
    "Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
    1. Re:Least of your worries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And even if it didn't...

      If it is powerful enough to destroy all your info, wouldn't it stand to reason that *EVERY COMPUTER ON EARTH* would also be destroyed? (Or at least all those in the same hemisphere as yours.)

      Your company's entire purpose for existence just vanished at the same time as your company's data.

      It's one thing if your company deals with data that has use outside computers (banking information, for example, or engineering blueprints for physical objects,) but when your company just writes software for computers? Yeah. You're going to be looking for a new job anyway.

    2. Re:Least of your worries by Bobakitoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The optical disks would be unreadable because, presumably, the electronic hardware used to access them would be unusable. Not because the disk itself somewhat melted away.

    3. Re:Least of your worries by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only mechanism I can think of which would case a solar flare to render optical disks unreadable would be radiation damage. A solar flare which delivered that kind of dose would likely wipe out all life on earth so you probably wouldn't be worrying about your backups.

      A good sysadmin would worry about backups even after death... :-P

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    4. Re:Least of your worries by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      I've had this same situation come up with clients and employers. Folks come to me wanting data to be safe from all* circumstances. It's too expensive to do that.

      I can get it up to the situation where if a nuclear bomb exploded over our state they could go somewhere else and set up shop, but for a small business or non-profit would you need to worry about such things if a nuclear bomb exploded over your home and/or business? Probably not.

    5. Re:Least of your worries by Cute+Fuzzy+Bunny · · Score: 3, Funny

      The only mechanism I can think of which would case a solar flare to render optical disks unreadable would be radiation damage. A solar flare which delivered that kind of dose would likely wipe out all life on earth so you probably wouldn't be worrying about your backups.

      Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

    6. Re:Least of your worries by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      I do. I do a lot of work for company X, and use a hosting account with company Y to do it. Y have written instructions from me to allow X to take over the hosting account should I be dead or incapacitated. Worth thinking about.

      Oh...everyone? OK, point taken.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    7. Re:Least of your worries by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Ok, but at that point, the self-same electronic hardware to compile and execute the source code would be just as unusable.

      To answer the question, though, just look at human data that has, in fact, survived thousands of years. Clay tablets come to mind.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    8. Re:Least of your worries by painandgreed · · Score: 2

      The only mechanism I can think of which would case a solar flare to render optical disks unreadable would be radiation damage. A solar flare which delivered that kind of dose would likely wipe out all life on earth so you probably wouldn't be worrying about your backups.

      A good sysadmin would worry about backups even after death... :-P

      Obligatory xkcd

  5. If such an event occurs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...your small indie game company is the least of your worries.

    1. Re:If such an event occurs... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      His customers are some really HARD CORE GAMMERS!
      With their PC's are setup Miles underground, Back up power generators powered by underground rivers.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:If such an event occurs... by zerro · · Score: 1

      as the first poster alluded to - computer gaming would be completely supplanted by the real life games of survival that would resemble something out of the Fallout series

    3. Re:If such an event occurs... by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 4, Funny

      With their PC's are setup Miles underground

      Mom and Dad must have a helluva basement...

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  6. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Punch Cards.

    1. Re:Yes by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Heck just print your code out. You can always retype it back in, just in time for civilization to recover.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  7. Don't worry about it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If such an event destroys all the computer media on Earth, nobody can buy or play your game anyway.

    But maybe you can use punch cards?

  8. UPS Datacenter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I once toured one of THE TWO UPS datacenters that could run for a week on its own diesel generators. They figured that after a week, they could get more fuel to their generators if need be, but you also have to think that if things are so bad that critical infrastructure like the UPS operations cannot get power back after a week, then there is probably a disaster so big that the data might not mean much to anybody for much longer.

    In the same way, if things are so bad with data drives and computers being destroyed everywhere in the world, who do you think is going to give a crap about being able to play your game?

    1. Re:UPS Datacenter by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      Yes but UPS must stay running because the only way to recover from such a disaster is for UPS, FedEx and such to stay running. Under the martial law that would follow such an event the military would be ensuring they get priority access to whatever fuel can be obtained. That is why they figure on a week. If they can't get more in that time it is truly game over anyway. And anyway, the datacenter without fuel for the trucks and planes wouldn't help a lot.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    2. Re:UPS Datacenter by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      In the same way, if things are so bad with data drives and computers being destroyed everywhere in the world, who do you think is going to give a crap about being able to play your game?

      And even if they care, they aren't going to be able to, even if you've preserved your source code.

    3. Re:UPS Datacenter by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 2

      Yes but UPS must stay running because the only way to recover from such a disaster is for UPS, FedEx and such to stay running. Under the martial law that would follow such an event the military would be ensuring they get priority access to whatever fuel can be obtained. That is why they figure on a week. If they can't get more in that time it is truly game over anyway. And anyway, the datacenter without fuel for the trucks and planes wouldn't help a lot.

      Yes, because humanitarian aid, heavy repair machinery and qualified personnel will be delivered by UPS... go figure. Ah, and UPS workstations, communication networks (including wireless) and electricity and fuel will come from a diferent network that won't be affected by such an event.

      The seven day figure is good for a minor local catastrophe event (a tornado, floodings, earthquake) or even just unreliable power suppliers. But the real reason is that, in case the shit hits the fan, UPS CIO can go to the board and claim that he had the datacenters protected against anything that could be expected.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    4. Re:UPS Datacenter by omnichad · · Score: 1

      If all the computers fry, UPS isn't much better than a guy with a truck. Can UPS planes even fly if their avionics are fried?

    5. Re:UPS Datacenter by prestonmichaelh · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. I have a server in a colo facility in Dallas, which I toured before putting it there. They are basically the same thing (can withstand an F4 tornado, on 3 power grids, 8 Internet backbone connections, generators with a week of fuel plus "guaranteed" 24 hour fuel delivery contracts, etc.)

      Basically my thought was that if things get so bad even half of the contingency plans kick in, I'm not really going to care about my server anymore.

    6. Re:UPS Datacenter by CyberTech · · Score: 1

      "Yes, because humanitarian aid, heavy repair machinery and qualified personnel will be delivered by UPS... go figure."

      Besides the military, UPS and Fedex are in PRIME positions to be brought in, in the case of a catastrophe large enough. They have a worldwide (certainly US-wide) delivery system and infrastructure already in place. It's easy to picture a scenario where they are ordered (or offer) to assist.

      --
      -- CyberTech
    7. Re:UPS Datacenter by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      LMAO.

      Sorry, but first aid help is not brought to your home. You get to refugee camp, there you get aid.

      So, no need for funky software to track parcel A from sender B to receiver C. You load a bunch of sacks in a truck/airplane, and unload where told. Or to check how much overtime has done employee D last week to calculate his paycheck.

      Yes, they have some hardware. Lots of people have it, too. Unless UPS hardware is rugged to go through damaged communication lines, it is not that valuable. Unless UPS has strategic fuel and electricity reserves to operate it, it is not that important. Unless UPS personel can be expected to stay at their work places and don't go to their homes to protect their family / valuables / see what happened, they are not that reliable.

      In the hour of need, an UPS could be a nice thing to have. But John Doe's truck would be equally as useful, because the wonderful organization of UPS is just not designed for that kind of situation and would be useless.

      And BTW, forget about the 7 days issue. Once you have a generator big enough, adding days of autonomy is dirty cheap. You just need to add a few extra deposits of fuel, and it is not as if you are losing its value for holding there idle. Is a quick and cheap to look "ready for everythin".

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
  9. Optical? by florescent_beige · · Score: 2

    How would optical be wiped by e/m radiation? As for magnetic, as long as there is no physical damage taking place (I'm no Carrington event specialist, but it doesn't seem as if high energy particles do the damage, just warpage of Earth's magnetic field (someone can correct me if I'm wrong)) wouldn't any old Faraday cage do? I wouldn't be surprised if the metal drawers in safety deposit boxes would be sufficient.

    --
    Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
    1. Re:Optical? by clintp · · Score: 2, Informative

      How would optical be wiped by e/m radiation?

      1. Find a CD or a DVD with your valuable source code on it.
      2. Take the media to your kitchen. Insert media into microwave oven.
      3. Turn microwave on exposing media to EM radiation.

      --
      Get off my lawn.
    2. Re:Optical? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Maybe they wouldn't. But not having a drive to read it in could be a problem.

    3. Re:Optical? by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the earth's surface becomes equivalent to a *running* microwave...I'd say source code is the least of your worries

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    4. Re:Optical? by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      I was thinking even more mundane than this, the dyes in CDR's are only semi stable, Fill a cdr, leave it on a desk where it gets sun through a window for a week, try and read back data. My experience is that you'd get pretty much nothing. I suspect a burst of high energy particles/x-rays and everything else that would bombard the earth would have a similar effect?

  10. Faraday cage made easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wrap your USB flash drive in aluminum foil. You are all set. For extra points, make an aluminum hat to keep out the bad thoughts.

  11. PaperBak by MetricT · · Score: 1

    http://olydbg.de/Paperbak/

    In theory, if civilization is destroyed by the Flame Deluge, the monks should be able to reconstruct your data on paper using nothing more than a magnifying glass.

    1. Re:PaperBak by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      They should really hurry themselves. Even in good conditions paper desintegrates slowly and, for what I have read, paper made since the 50s has a higher acidic composition that makes it even less durable.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
  12. Just a disk backup in your safe... by nweaver · · Score: 3, Informative

    A steel box is a perfectly good Faraday cage. Its a small antenna cross section, so you'll effectively get no effects inside the box.

    So if you are paranoid enough to care, just keep a backup of your data in your safe. Which you want to do anyway, since that helps mitigate many many many more risks to your data than a big solar storm.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
    1. Re:Just a disk backup in your safe... by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      A steel box is a perfectly good Faraday cage. Its a small antenna cross section, so you'll effectively get no effects inside the box.

      So if you are paranoid enough to care, just keep a backup of your data in your safe. Which you want to do anyway, since that helps mitigate many many many more risks to your data than a big solar storm.

      And the Faraday cage should not be, as the summary suggests, 100 km below the surface of the Moon. The Moon is outside the Van Allen belts, and gets pelted with more radiation than the Earth. Just put it 100 km below the surface of the Earth.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
  13. Argh, link in original post is a typo by MetricT · · Score: 2
    1. Re:Argh, link in original post is a typo by idontgno · · Score: 1

      If you're planning your paper-based backup to survive the Great Flame Deluge, you might wanna use fireproof paper. Lots of it.

      But for Carrington 2.0, I guess regular paper would work, as long as induced current arcing doesn't burn down wherever your backups are stored.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  14. How about something more plausible by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think people should really be designing for a more plausible and real world scenario that happens far more often. The man made scenario known as a court order. Companies like Ontrack do far more business recovering data for court order subpoenas than they do for floods or fires.

    Seriously, you can put your data on RAID 6 arrays to mitigate against disk failure. You can back up your data to mitigate against a disaster at a site. You can distribute your data to multiple sites to mitigate your risk from flood or hurricane or similar disaster.

    Can you comply with a court order seizure of your data, hand over everything that is required and still operate? If you can do this than you have a pretty good disaster recovery plan. If you can't do this than you don't have a good disaster recovery plan and it's the one disaster than in the real world strikes businesses more often than just about anything else.

    Yes, I have been involved with this kind of thing more than once, and you really don't want to mess about a court order.

    1. Re:How about something more plausible by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      How can you go about doing this? Wouldn't any backups you make by definition fall under the order? It seems like such a court order would completely shut your company down until all proceedings were over, which could be for years.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    2. Re:How about something more plausible by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll give a real world example of a time that a company I was doing work for got sued for about $8 million for license non-compliance. The company 15,000 seats and only had 5000 licenses of a product that they were using. The company demanded an audit and discovered that were 8000 installations of their software on site. Sound pretty open and shut, write a check, true up the licenses and somebody get's fired, right?

      The data had to preserved /exactly/ as it was for the date of the audit. I performed both a back up of the database as well as a physical copy of the database. This was performed for an agreed upon date for the audit. I then preserved it on a separate database instance on a distinct SQL server owned by the legal department. I made sure that I did not 'clean up' or otherwise make the data look nice or presentable.

      For those wanting to learn from this I was able to kill the lawsuit dead in it's tracks. When I talked with corporate legal counsel I asked them a simple question. Did the license say 'concurrent' or 'seat' in the fine print? Legal counsel came back to me an hour later to let me know that the license said "concurrent" and not seat. The fact that we had 8000 installations was meaningless /if/ I could prove that we never exceeded 5000 concurrent users.

      I was able to do this by going back to multiple back up copies of the SQL database. I made copies of those database backups and put those on the legal teams SQL server. I then looked at the application metering data for the previous two years and was able to prove that we never exceeded 4700 'concurrent' licenses at a given time. This data was provided to their legal counsel in raw form.

      To answer your question it boils down to this. You can keep your data as long as they can see your data (as necessarily redacted) in a /timely/ manner and without alteration. Speed is critical and you absolutely have to be able to show how you got your results and have to be able to replicate your work. In other words the other guys IT people have to take your raw data, write their own report and still get your results.

    3. Re:How about something more plausible by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      We also keep a separate, clean daily backup of the SQL database at a few of our sites, although it wasn't for legal reasons. Our BDR systems compress over time, and by the time the data is more than three months old it is collapsed into a monthly image. Well, one of our clients needed a copy of the database from two months prior, but due to the compression system the best I could do was a weekly collapse from 3 days later than the exact date she wanted. She freaked out a bit, but fortunately the database still had what she needed from that date. In order to prepare ourselves for future situations, we set up a separate backup of the SQL files to run to a second hard drive inside the server every weekday. Now if she needs a copy of the database from May 15th, we can give her a copy of the database from May 15th.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    4. Re:How about something more plausible by CKW · · Score: 1

      That's neat, but I think calmofthestorm and also I would like to know -- if a semi-hostile, already-complete court order arrives saying "hand over all of your data" -- how do you do backups such that you do NOT have to hand over the backups themselves, and thus not have any ability to continue business?

      See what I mean? A court order saying "hand over all data" means we need to hand over backups too. Even worse is if the sherrifs arrive with that order, they're not going to trust you that these two backup tapes are identical and thus leave you with one to continue business.

      ( Maybe you didn't actually mean this most extreme form of demand ... but just accidentally implied it in your original paragraph.... )

      Ooooh, maybe you can help me with something - the manager of our sysadmin group is always harping about "data older than 3 years should be destroyed so your own data can't be used against you".

      Do you have any good authoritative references explaining what data should be deleted and when, and what other types of data should be "kept forever" and why?

      I mean a best practices or published book or something. Something that is a distillation of what everyone else has learned, not merely professional opinions that can be "argued for and against"...

    5. Re:How about something more plausible by onyxruby · · Score: 2

      That just isn't how court orders arrive unless they come attached to a criminal case. In the real world the cops don't bust down your doors pointing guns at everyone yelling for you to get down on the ground for civil matters.

      Civil matters operate under a subpoena and you typically have to limit the scope of the subpoena to the a particular thing. You can't simply go fishing for anything and everything that might be interesting. What's far more likely is an order would arrive that would say "give me all of your engineering emails from the date of blah through blah by the date of blah". As long as you produce everything by the date of blah you are will be fine.

      If a subpoena is overly broad your lawyer would just go back to the court and claim that it was over reaching. There would be a risk of a delay and additional legal fees or having the judge throw out their request altogether. The idea that you would have to produce /everything/ and wouldn't be able to have any copies for yourself only happens in criminal cases or if you fail to comply with the subpoena in a timely manner.

      If the judge thinks you blew the subpoena off didn't take it seriously thank you risk physical seizure and having things turned over to someone like Ontrack for a third party search. As a matter of course as long as your timely and produce the exact data without alternation you should never have to worry about being without operational data.

    6. Re:How about something more plausible by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 1

      For those wanting to learn from this I was able to kill the lawsuit dead in it's tracks. When I talked with corporate legal counsel I asked them a simple question. Did the license say 'concurrent' or 'seat' in the fine print? Legal counsel came back to me an hour later to let me know that the license said "concurrent" and not seat. The fact that we had 8000 installations was meaningless /if/ I could prove that we never exceeded 5000 concurrent users.

      Would not have been a job for the plaintiff? I mean, that it was they who had to demonstrate that you had exceeded the concurrent users limit? Of course, you would have had to submit to them all your logs, if you were required by the court.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    7. Re:How about something more plausible by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      They could prove we installed over 5000 licenses with the audit. What we had to do was prove that we never /used/ more than 5000 licenses concurrently. To do that we took a series of SQL database backups and used those to show that over time we never exceeded 4700 licenses.

      That was done with the raw data from our application metering software which monitored application usage. If it wasn't for the application metering software that provided the raw data we would have had no way to argue in good faith that we complied with the license. Morals of the story. Buy application metering software. Keep backups of your SQL database, this isn't a one off experience for me.

  15. How to stop Carrington events by maroberts · · Score: 5, Funny

    how could you protect data to survive a modern day Carrington event?

    Ban reruns of Dynasty on TV?

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  16. Three reasons not to worry by Anaerin · · Score: 2

    Unless your computer is in an all-acrylic case, the metal shell acts as rather a nice Faraday Cage. Given that the atmosphere protected most of the equipment on the ground during the last event (Bastille Day, 2000) you should be just fine. And finally, as the last one was in 2000, and they're due every 500 years, you'll be good for a while.

  17. Missing sense of scale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The geomagnetic effects of a solar storm is very large, in terms of physical extent, but still relatively slow, small changes in terms of magnetic field amplitude. In a crude sense, you can think of the voltage induced in a loop of wire from a changing magnetic field. The voltage is proportional to the area, size of change in magnetic field, and how fast the field changes (inversely proportional to the time the change takes). The second and third factors are already quite small. The only reason it affects power grids, is due to their large size, allowing for a accumulating the effect of magnetic field changes over a wide area. This isn't going to affect small devices on the surface of the Earth, short of temporary power loss and possible loss of satellites from increased particle flux in space.

    So how do you protect equipment like hard drives and computers from geomagnetic storms? Don't hook up antennas to them that are miles long. Or if you do plug them into the power grid, protection circuits are pretty simple for over voltage issues. So simple, a lot of power grid equipment has such circuit breakers, which is the reason they probably will go down from a major storm: not from damage, but from protection circuits pulling the plug when conditions go too far out of spec.

  18. Re:Old tech to the rescue by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

    Do the math on the volume a gigabyte of data on paper take would consume. Now go look at the size of the source repository even for a crappy little Android game. Not practical.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  19. Pray, Mr. Babbage... by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 5, Funny

    To paraphrase:

    On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if the surface of the Earth is fried by a solar flare and all computers are rendered inoperable, how can one protect a video game?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a need.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Pray, Mr. Babbage... by jhoegl · · Score: 4, Funny

      My Ms. Pacman score must out-live any earth-ending event so that an alien of superior intellect can marvel at my accomplishment in 5 billion years time!
      I want them to think "Who is this A.S.S. and why was he so great?"

    2. Re:Pray, Mr. Babbage... by Pope · · Score: 1

      I'm more worried about DMK beating my Tempest high score again!

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    3. Re:Pray, Mr. Babbage... by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      You seem to be missing the potential here, if he has the only game that survives the apocalypse*, it would make his game the first to market once computers are available again.

      Like they say, when life gives you apocalypses, make apocalypse-hardened games!

      *Except for any games stored on one of those Nokias, of course.

    4. Re:Pray, Mr. Babbage... by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      It's a noble cause, when you put it that way, and I admit it struck a chord of sympathy with me easily once you spelled it out. Honestly, I think I'd do the same. I'd hope thought that someone building such a secure data store would consider preserving other things, though, like a Wikipedia mirror or family heirlooms, and not just their personal creative achievements.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  20. OK, I'll Bite by carpwall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's just get the promotion out of the way.. sigh.. what's the name of your game company and what game did you just release?

    1. Re:OK, I'll Bite by Desler · · Score: 1, Informative

      Kactus Games. I really doubt the world would care if the source code to his not even released game was lost.

    2. Re:OK, I'll Bite by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wouldn't it be ironic if the game plot was about a society that degenerated in a post-apocalyptic nightmare after they failed to properly secure their backups?

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
    3. Re:OK, I'll Bite by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not this isn't part of some big promotional thing, I'm WAY too far off from completion for that, if it was I'd have at least waited for the website to be up or put some fresh content. It was a fun little thought experiment. Short of sending data off world could humanity store it in a way that way if catastrophic events (pick your favorite) occurred all would not be lost.

    4. Re:OK, I'll Bite by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      no but I might just write that down :P

  21. 750ML of perspective by Fly_Boy · · Score: 1

    May I ask what exactly you plan to do with this source code after every IC on the planet has been rendered inoperative? You will likely have other priorities following such an event.

    1. Re:750ML of perspective by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      The post should have been more clear, I wasn't specifically talking about my data, but any data. If it hit today, what would be left of the wealth of knowledge that exists and how can we plan to save it?

  22. True near-extinction planning. by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, the big event happens, many people are dead and all computer technology has been wiped out.

    How to properly prepare your backups? The trick is to really think about what is the core mission of your company... obviously, you build games now so the company will survive.

    So how to ensure the company will survive in the event most customers are dead and computers nearly non-exstant? Quite obviously, it is to be the leaders of the next rise in civilization.

    This means ensuring a good supply of arms, and training for each person in the company so that you can arise as the natural leaders from the ashes of civilization.

    You should probably also harden the building, and lay in a year of food so the company can sit safe while civilization steadies into a steady state outside. To ensure you can really hold out that long, make sure your company is housed in a large building with a flat roof, that no-one can see from the outside (a 10 foot extension to the walls on the roof may work). Then put enough dirt on the roof that you can grow crops and raise goats/chickens.

    As a game company you stand a better chance of ruling civilization than most. You'll have better reflexes, and of course who has thought more about post-apocolyic matters than a modern game developer?

    Good luck, and I look forward to living in servitude under your wise rule.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  23. What is wrong with paper? by cpu6502 · · Score: 2

    It would take some time to retype all the code but at least it would not be lost.

    As for audio and video recordings, they would be lost unless you can find some way to record them on a non-erasable format like a vinyl record. RCA developed a record that could store video but the quality was no better than VHS. With MPEG4 compression that could be upped to HD quality, but you would still lose a lot of high frequency movie content (1080i =/= 2000p of today's movies).
    .

    --
    My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    1. Re:What is wrong with paper? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      As for audio and video recordings, they would be lost unless you can find some way to record them on a non-erasable format like a vinyl record. RCA developed a record that could store video but the quality was no better than VHS. .

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow-scan_television

      Come to think of it, SSTV vinyls sound like kind of a neat thing to do anyway, just for kicks...

      With MPEG4 compression that could be upped to HD quality, but you would still lose a lot of high frequency movie content (1080i =/= 2000p of today's movies).

      If all we're talking about is preserving current knowledge for future societies to grep from our ashes, something tells me video quality will not be a major priority.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:What is wrong with paper? by Desler · · Score: 1

      With MPEG4 compression that could be upped to HD quality, but you would still lose a lot of high frequency movie content (1080i =/= 2000p of today's movies).

      Then encode it to a higher resolution than 1080p. Wow, that was a hard solution...

    3. Re:What is wrong with paper? by alphred · · Score: 1

      In the early 80's I once asked a friend of mine, who was good at scrounging, if he could find me some 'cheap mass storage'. I should have said 'cheap hard drive', which is what I wanted.

      He brought me back a paper tape punch device. No reader, just the puncher. Also, he could only find about 50 ft of paper tape. He was slightly indignant when I didn't take them off his hands.

      I have always wondered if he ever made it work with his Apple ][.

    4. Re:What is wrong with paper? by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>Then encode it to a higher resolution than 1080p. Wow, that was a hard solution...

      Then the video would look like crap. (Extreme amount of macroblocking, mosquitos, and other artifacts.) Trying to squeeze a 2000p image onto a vinyl record (one hour per side) would be like trying to squeeze that same data onto a VHS tape. Or through a standard 6 MHz television channel.

      The most they can handle is 1080p and even then it's not great quality. It would not look good at all. (Wow, that was not hard to understand... I should not have needed to explain it to you.)

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
  24. You are worrying about the wrong stuff by a-zarkon! · · Score: 1

    An electro magnetic event (man-made or natural) that is sufficiently powerful enough to corrupt magnetically stored data is also more than likely going to be sufficiently powerful to really mess with everything that relies on microprocessors to work.

    There has been some proposals around requiring the electric industry to harden their infrastructure and systems to deal with this type of event. Assume the utilities do manage to somehow fund this type of hardening (which would be a massive undertaking in both time and expense). You still need to ask yourself what is going to be left to consume this power. The event is likely to leave many if not most things inoperable on a very wide scale. This means cell phones, computers, televisions, air conditioners, refrigerators, stoves. Any car made after around 1980 is probably also a non-starter. So there's power available, but not much left to consume it. Even if you have protected your data and your data center and have power, what percentage of companies have not?

    This would be a hugely disruptive event that would take massive effort and years to recover from for any modern society. Maybe when the dust settles it might be nice to know what you have in your 401(k) and how much back taxes you owe; but then again it's equally possible that all this stuff will be irrelevant in the "new normal."

    I agree that this is not an "extinction event" but it could very easily be sufficient to significantly change the political and societal landscape.

  25. If all electronics and data are lost... by browndizzle · · Score: 1

    Then what is the point in having a back up of your source code then? By the time the world recovered from such a catastrophic event to the global network, your games would be useless. Not that it isn't fun to think about, but you are redundant enough.

  26. Last reason is a fail by maroberts · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And finally, as the last one was in 2000, and they're due every 500 years, you'll be good for a while.

    One presumes that these events are totally random processes and like dice, the fact you rolled two 6s last go has no effect on whether you'll roll two 6s this time.
    Assuming that to be true, you could just as easily get one next year as in 500 years.

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:Last reason is a fail by Score+Whore · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why would you assume that? CME's are related to sun spots and sun spots have definite cycles.

  27. if it really is a near-extinction event by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    What are the chances that you still care about data and aren't preoccupied scrapping the skin tumors off you third hand?

  28. With common sense by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    With all the talk about solar flares and other such near-extinction events lately...how could you protect data to survive a modern day Carrington event?

    Two things to consider. First if the Carrington event was a near-extinction event why did the world's population survive intact (with the exception of a few unfortunately telegraph operators)? Second if a vast majority of the earth's population did die (i.e. a real near-extinction event) why would the survivors be interested in your video game data? In addition if the EM disturbance is so great that it erases hard drives everyone's computers will also have fried so even if they were somehow interested in the midst of dealing with an unprecedented global disaster they would not have any capability to use it.

    So I'd stick with just coping with ordinary disasters which affect, as an upper level, your local town or city. In fact even something like the Carrington event, while hugely disruptive to power grids and communications is unlikely to be powerful enough to affect computers and, given that we would likely have a day or so notice there would be time to power them down and make a tinfoil hat for them. So important stuff could be protected.

  29. Old is best by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

    Punch cards. Fire proof and water resistant punch chars. Oh and bug proof.

    1. Re:Old is best by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Punch cards and old. My arse is older than that. At least it feels like it.

      Throughout history, the most reliable data storage has been fired clay tablets. Get some clay, an arduino, stepper motors and assorted crap and a kiln. Build an automated cuneiform printer. Code for eternity.

      You may also paint your code on the walls of a cave with a suitable microclimate. Should be good for a couple of 10k years.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    2. Re:Old is best by omnichad · · Score: 2

      And at 13 punch cards per kilobyte, how many trees would have to be cut down to save Rebecca Black's "Friday?"

  30. Perhaps solving the wrong problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From OP:
    "I run a small indie game company, and since source code is kind of our lifeblood, I'm pretty paranoid about backups.
    [snip]
    How could you protect data to survive a modern day Carrington event?"

    Just pointing out that if there were a true Carrington event, it won't make a whit of difference if your games company's data is recoverable or not. Who are you going to sell to? And what would they play your games on?

  31. let's see...linux kernel source by Chirs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    15 million lines of code. Call it 100 lines per page to ensure OCR can read it after. Let's be generous and go double-sided. That's 75K pages of printout. At 0.003" per page, that's a stack of paper roughly 6 feet tall.

    1. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by 1u3hr · · Score: 3, Informative
      Paper worked for St Leibowitz.

      Or you could use Bradbury's method, get a bunch of people to commit it to memory by reciting it continuously.

    2. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I am sure it would end up being thicker. It's 150 reams.

    3. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      Most of the books the Holy Order of St. Leibowitz preserved where committed to memory by monks during the times of the book burnings.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    4. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Funny

      "one-zero-zero-zero-one-zero-one-zero-one-one-zero..."

      "Err, what's that mean?"

      "I don't know, but my grandfather says it's the phrase you recite to get into Heaven. It has to be exact. He passed it on to my father, who passed it on to me."

      "Wow. So what if you don't recite it perfectly?"

      "Ack! Don't even say that! I'd get sent to the land of eternal punishment!"

      "You mean Hell?"

      "No - worse! It's a place Grampa called DotNet!"

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it's 150 reams? According to SCO, in a statement that must be either true or perjury, a legible printout of the linux source code all fit into one easily carried briefcase!
      They should have given up on litigation and just sold those magic bags :)

    6. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I'm just going by 75,000 pages / 500.

    7. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by Saija · · Score: 1

      Oh brother i've been in the damned land of fire and lost souls called dotnet and i tell you: there's not something more horrible and nightmarish than seen a naked ballmer dancing the malevolent developers dance over the crying and desperate souls of some mono developers

      --
      Slashdot ya no es que lo era! ;)
    8. Re:let's see...linux kernel source by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Yes I do believe you which is why I called the SCO briefcase a magic bag. There were so many pointless and stupid lies in that series of court cases.

  32. CDs and DVDs are not magnetic by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
    CDs and DVDs are not magnetic.

    Any event energetic enough to erase them will also erase all life on the planet.

    1. Re:CDs and DVDs are not magnetic by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The point is moot anyway since the movement of continents over hundreds of millions of years has been tracked from the alignment of the magnetic domains of rock that solidified at different times. Something big enough to disrupt offline magnetic storage probably would make such measurements more difficult than they were or at least would leave some sort of mark. So I'd say it's not just the non-magnetic stuff that would be safe, magnetic stuff would need to be exposed to a truly enormous field that doesn't seem to have occured in geological history.

  33. have you never put a CD in the microwave? by Chirs · · Score: 1

    The induced electric currents burn up the reflective layer.

    That said, any solar flare strong enough to zap CDs is likely going to cause major issues for people as well.

  34. genetically by WillgasM · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just create a new form of life and embed your source code in its DNA. Then build a rocket/ion drive/stasis chamber to deliver your new life form to a neighboring star where it can then land and seed life on another planet. The real bitch is starting all over every time you release a patch.

    1. Re:genetically by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Patch? What about all the bugs/features you get from random mutation?

    2. Re:genetically by WillgasM · · Score: 1

      make it asexual; that'll eliminate most of that. Then add a checksum.

    3. Re:genetically by catmistake · · Score: 1

      Just create a new form of life and embed your source code in its DNA. Then build a rocket/ion drive/stasis chamber to deliver your new life form to a neighboring star where it can then land and seed life on another planet. The real bitch is starting all over every time you release a patch.

      wow... how did you... how did... you... prognosticate... the next frontpage slashdot summary??!!

  35. Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

    In short: Get your ass to Mars!

    1. Re:Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. by cowboy76Spain · · Score: 2

      Mars has no atmosphere/magnetosphere, so I think that even if it is farther away from the Sun it would be hit way harder than Earth's surface.

      --
      Why can't /. have a rich-text editor? Editing your own HTML is so XXth century.
  36. Huh? by mcl630 · · Score: 1

    If there were a Carrington event (or worse a "near extinction" event), would anyone care about indie-games?

    1. Re:Huh? by Desler · · Score: 1

      I really doubt anyone will care about his crappy looking game even without a Carrington event.

    2. Re:Huh? by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      Good point.

  37. Re:M-Disk by Jeng · · Score: 1

    Considering the M-Disk uses a ceramic type backing instead of aluminum it shouldn't be effected by a solar flare.

    http://www.gadgetwiki.com/20110818/millenniata-m-disk-stores-your-files-forever-well-almost/

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  38. Put it in perspective... by MadCow42 · · Score: 1

    An event big enough to cause the type of problems you're talking about (especially with multiple off-site backups, including different countries) would cause so many problems that getting your source code for Indie GAMES back will be the __least__ of your problems.

    MadCow.

    --
    I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
  39. Both optical media and magnetic media are immune by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    Both optical media and magnetic media are essentially immune to solar flares. Hard drive electronics may be damaged, but the data will still be on the platters.

    Magnetic tape is hard to erase; it takes a big magnet within inches of the tape. Degaussing most modern tape cartridges takes a field strength above 1000 gauss. The earth's magnetic field is around 0.5 gauss. It varies during solar flares and other events, but the numbers are all below 1 gauss. MRI scanners are in the 500 gauss range, and at those field strengths, metal objects become projectiles.

    Magnetic tape is not affected by even intense gamma radiation. NIST totally settled that issue decades ago by lowering a recorded reel of 3/4" computer tape into the gamma ray pool of their nuclear reactor in Gaithersburg, MD, and leaving it there for 45 minutes. It then read back fine. Heat is a big threat to magnetic tape, though.

  40. Use Rsync by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    To a remote server in M31 galaxy somewhere.

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    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  41. Haven't read the comments but... by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

    ...If anything like that ever happens, nobody will give a shit about your indie game.

    1. Re:Haven't read the comments but... by Desler · · Score: 1

      Since his game looks like a generic fantasy game I doubt anyone will care about it regardless.

  42. What About Stone Tablets? by EvilBudMan · · Score: 1

    They seem to have a long life span if you bury them right.

  43. High density bar codes? by Shishak · · Score: 1

    Check out high density bar codes and back up to paper. That will be safe from solar flares.

    Or, you could get the code tatooed on your body. The git commit process would kinda suck though.

    --
    Now I hope and pray that I will But today I am still, just a bill
  44. Umm... by Fieryphoenix · · Score: 1

    Who would your customers be after your data successfully survives such an event?

  45. Paper not as impractical as it sounds by Cristofori42 · · Score: 1
    --
    "Is that dad? Either that or Batman's really let himself go."
  46. Re:Paper! by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Scannable with what? It would have to be big enough to be human-readable with optical magnification. At least for the schematics and code of your scanner.

    Beyond that, you have to print THIS small: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/08/12/2145205/color-printing-reaches-its-ultimate-resolution

  47. That's all? by hurfy · · Score: 1

    LOL ... Sounds simple after moving our historical records for medicare billing. We just emptied 12 5-drawer file cabinets, after destroying the extra PALLET of old records.

    Now you only need a plan for biblical floods :O

    1. Re:That's all? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Now you only need a plan for biblical floods

      Levee banks built out of pallet loads of government records.

  48. RAID 5 NAS? by gregulator · · Score: 1

    Switch to RAID 6. Or some wother format with dual parity drives. With the size of drives now-a-days it is pretty likely that another drive will die as you are populating a fresh replacement drive on RAID5.

  49. Lifeblood?? by trevc · · Score: 1

    Just give everybody that purchases your games a copy of the source code along with instructions on how to reach you after a major event. You are obviously not worried about piracy as you already have a multitude of copies of the code floating around. "source code is kind of our lifeblood - Every system has a local copy, servers run from a RAID 5 NAS, we have complete offsite backups, backup to keyrings/mobile phones, and cloud backups in other countries as well"

  50. Transmit off-planet by Drafell · · Score: 1

    Invest in an array of 230ft satellite dishes and transmit your source-code off-planet at maximum power. Retrieval of the data may be problematic, though.

  51. Re:Old tech to the rescue by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

    How you store it has a lot to do with how much paper you consume. Modern scanners can discern a lot smaller 'dots' than ye-olde paper tape reels, particularly if read-speed isn't a major concern. Given sufficiently small dots / colors you could store quite a bit of data on your average 8.5x11 sheet.

    ...however in this case I'm going to go with backup tapes in a Faraday cage, also known as a 'bank vault'.

  52. Give him what he wants. by sacdelta · · Score: 2

    Shhh! Don't tell him that stuff. I plan on offering him my patented optical disk Carrington Event protection device. To the untrained eye, it may look like a paper bag, but for the low low price of $999.99 you can own it today.

    --

    Brought to you by: "Al"toids - the curiously weird mint.

  53. Re:How the heck do people this dumb... by Desler · · Score: 1

    Because anyone can start a company and declare themselves the CEO.

  54. Re:Old tech to the rescue by pthisis · · Score: 2

    Most source code isn't measured in anything approaching gigabytes. The entire linux kernel (which is orders of magnitude bigger than any Android game source I've seen) is an 80MB archive.

    Harvard Mk 1 paper tape was about 2.5" wide and carried 30 bytes per inch. That's about 2 2/3 feet per kb of data.

    I've got an Android tic tac toe app that's 62k of source code. That'd be 165' of paper tape. On regular paper, that'd fan-fold to be 1' long and about 0.7" high (at 2.5" wide). Heavier card stock might quadruple that height or something like that.

    The original Doom source code--with all the art and everything--is under 400k, which'd be 1000' of paper tape or a 4" high stack at 1' long and 2.5" high. It's outdated by desktop standards but in the realm of many Android games I've seen.

    The Doom 3 source code with art is 9.5MB, which would be a 9' high stack.

    The whole linux kernel (80MB) would be about 40 miles of tape; on regular paper that's a 35.5' high stack at 1' long and 2.5" wide. Which is cumbersome for sure, and would take almost a full day to read in at typical paper-tape scanning speeds.

    --
    rage, rage against the dying of the light
  55. y'all missed the point by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 1

    The summery is poorly ordered, and so you all have missed the point. The point is not to protect the game backup, but rather, the game source code backup is the reason the person is thinking about this issue. A better summery could be:

    With all the talk about solar flares and other such near-extinction events lately, I've been wondering: is it actually possible to store or protect data in such a way that if such an event occurred, data survives and is recoverable in a useful form? Optical and magnetic media would probably be rendered useless by a large enough solar flare, and storing source code/graphics in paper format would be impractical to recover, so Slashdot, short of building a Faraday cage 100 km below the surface of the Moon, how could you protect data to survive a modern day Carrington event?
    The thinking that lead to this question is, I run a small indie game company, and since source code is kind of our lifeblood, I'm pretty paranoid about backups. Every system has a local copy, servers run from a RAID 5 NAS, we have complete offsite backups, backup to keyrings/mobile phones, and cloud backups in other countries as well. Obviously I won't care in the event of a massive disaster situation, but the question is quite relevant for other types of data, including enough information to 'reboot' 'civilisation' if necessary.

    It depends on what you want to store. Obviously paper and all these metallic discs with tiny engravings are not practical for version control (having to print/engrave even every week would rapidly get tiresome), but these are quite good for reboot info. In fact, The Long Now Foundation Rosetta Disk is the sort of thing you would think would be what would be wanted.

    In fact, all these questions have already been answered, and/or are being answered by people like the Long Now Foundation.

    ---

    If in fact I misunderstood (and everyone else didn't) and you want to back up games software so that you can access it again, that's different. Ignoring why (and saying, because it's an interesting bloody thought experiment): what's wrong with getting stuff onto multiple formats, storing the devices to read these formats (along with some electricity generators -- perhaps a bike generator), and instructions on paper -- that's one pack. Stick a pack in a fireproof safe, stick it in a mine-shaft. Stick others in multiple different places around the place. (Uluru is pretty good -- geographically stable, big landmark, hardly any people, etc.)

    OK, actually the question is not so interesting. But I still would have been more interested in people actually thinking about (mental masturbation or not) that them harping on about "more important things to worry about". It's like: yeah, I'm so prepared, it will take a nuke going of over my home to kill all my backups. And then I'll have more important things to worry about. Yeah. What if you are overseas when the nuke goes off? You'll be alive, and while you have more important things to worry about, having access to letters and documents etc. is still very important for your mental well being. And in the event that the nuke was a one off (i.e. a global war doesn't eventuate) you'll still want to carry on with your life. So fucking well prepare for more than just a nuke going off! Prepare for a anything.

    --
    HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
    1. Re:y'all missed the point by kactusotp · · Score: 1

      My Summary was poorly worded, yours is better. Yes I was more interested in data surviving as opposed to specifically my data. There are several thought experiments I'd love to explore but thought the summary was already getting too long, Everything from short term events where people are more or less ok initially, and after a period of time the world tries to return to normality, to civilization is destroyed and what is left when we get rediscovered. I joke with my wife that in 10,000 years time an archaeologist will dig up a horders house and then write a paper about how we all held plastic drink bottles in such high regard we would line our walls with them, and the poor of us would only have a few in our dwellings.

  56. If you're lucky, get used to Real Farmville. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    > "With all the talk about solar flares and other such near-extinction events lately"

    Buddy, if a 20 mile diameter rock hits the Earth, whether your source code for Angry Turkeys survives is the least of your problems.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  57. Store your backups underground. by TheRedDuke · · Score: 1

    What medium are your offsite backups stored on? And where? In addition to a colo data center on our campus, my organization contracts with Iron Mountain for full offsite backups, which we dump to tape and send to their facility. Depending on your location in the US (or anywhere in the world really), many of their storage facilities are converted missile silos and bunkers - climate-controlled, and far enough underground to potentially survive nuclear and Carrington events alike. There are many other companies that provide the same services too. Depending on how much you store and how frequently you need to send it/retrieve it, the price of service can vary, but if you're that paranoid, it's worth a look.

    Then again, if you're storing on an optical medium, none of this will matter except for the climate-control - optical media can't be degaussed.

  58. Calm down, by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
    And stop watching the History Channel 2, kactusotp!

    Because once you protect yourself from solar flares, then you'll still have to worry about Ancient Aliens, Mayan doomsday calendars, Bible codes, The Freemasons and Rosicrucians, and no doubt Nostradamus had something to say about you losing your data, but we'll have to wait until after it happens.

    Your middle name isn't Hister is it?

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  59. Re:Old tech to the rescue by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

    Em, the size of a tarball doesn't tell the story. Look at the size of a source repository. As in a CVS, git or SourceSafe storage area. Those suckers get huge and they get huge fast.

    And I think you are mistaken on the size of some of those items. Doom came on three(?) floppy discs. Or are you expecting me to believe the geniuses who created Doom would distribute it in a format larger than the one used to fully express the editable data for the artwork and levels? And Doom3's art assets are certainly larger than 9.5MB.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  60. got a card punch? by swschrad · · Score: 1

    silly rays can't affect cardboard.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  61. Easy by jon3k · · Score: 1

    You probably half, what, a couple million lines of source? print it out and store it in a waterproof/fireproof safe(s). It wouldn't be fun but you could hire a team of people at like $10/hour to key it all back in the matter of a few weeks, tops.

    1. Re:Easy by tahuti · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't printing it as barcodes be a bit faster for scanning? What is wrong with punch cards?

  62. Seriously? by taustin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In all seriousness, dude, if an event of that scale occurs, what are you going to recover it to? If the backups in other countries are dead, there's no computers left. At that point, the only useful backsup are printed on paper, and that only because you can use the paper to light a fire to cook dinner over, after you kill it with a sharp stick.

    Get over yourself.

  63. Use Probability by izomiac · · Score: 1

    First, calculate how much money a loss of source code would set you back (e.g. if it means bankruptcy then that's your retained earnings). Next, multiple that number by the combined probability of all catastrophes that would wipe out your data but not kill you or your ability/desire to conduct business. The product is the number of dollars you should spend worrying about it.

    Honestly, that number is probably almost zero. If there's a massive loss of data for everybody then our economy is going to collapse and most companies will cease to exist (perhaps many governments as well). We'd probably also lose all the infrastructure necessary to develop and sell games. The government and large companies in vital industries should absolutely care about this, but small companies probably shouldn't.

  64. WE'RE STILL HERE! by JoeGee · · Score: 1

    Just to clarify, the Carrington event was not an extinction event. Yes, it fucked up electrical grid type thingies (devices connected to large antennas of copper strung between stations separated by many miles), but it did not have sufficient energy to vaporize, ionize, or otherwise cook things at the microscopic level of the pits on optical media. Had it actually done so, thee, me, the birdees and the beeses would no longer be here.

    Empirical evidence (the more or less continual presence of life on Earth for the past 6,500 to 3.75 billion years) would seem to indicate that our star doesn't misbehave in this fashion, so step back, breathe, and for God's sake cut back on the hyperbole. :)

    --

    Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
  65. RAID 5 can survive a sneeze...maybe.. by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    There is something wrong upstairs when you make the conscious choice to store important data you want to survive on a RAID 5 array.

  66. You're a game company by lee+n.+field · · Score: 1

    I run a small indie game company,

    You're a game company. That stuff is an amusement -- it doesn't matter.

  67. get serious by juenger1701 · · Score: 2

    a flare that big would wipe out power on a massive scale even if you got your code back no one would be buying it for a long time

  68. Magnetic storage all safe anyway without care by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The problem here is people are thinking of it as magic and not the physical mechanism. Since a lot of the evidence of plate tectonics was from magnetic properties of igneous rocks, and comparing that to the current magnetic feild at those locations, I really think that indicates we should be skeptical of suggestions that everything magnetic on earth is going to reoriented due to an event that has happened many times over geological timeframe.
    As for powerlines acting as antennas and picking up a lot of charge, well that's a very different thing to worrying about drive platters, tapes or individual offline items of electonics. There really isn't a lot of material to act as an antenna in a hard drive so it's an NMR intensity magnetic feild before you could dream of it having trouble from anything other than a surge coming from anywhere else.

  69. Carrington Event by hackus · · Score: 1

    If we have such an event, your not going to be using your computers for a LONG TIME.

    Unless you can manufacture your own semiconductor parts with your own electrical grid.

    So I wouldn't get that extreme and worry about it.

    Even if your laptop or electronics survive, you won't be able to use your computer for anything except localhost.

    Communications and gigantic portions of the internet will be destroyed for years, possibly decades.

    -Hack

    --
    Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
  70. But by DeathToBill · · Score: 1

    Neutrinos! No steel box will stop them! Enough of those bastards get through the box and interact with the disc, my data will be history!

    Lucky I've got my tinfoil hat on, or they'd have fried my brain ages ago.

    --
    Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
  71. Dude!!! Wicked!!! by kiwimate · · Score: 1

    The magnetic storm set off huge currents in the ground, which invaded the long telegraph lines. Telegraph operators were nearly electrocuted dead by the long, violent sparks erupting from the handsets. And several telegraph stations burnt down.

    If the Carrington Event happened today, nearly 10 per cent of the 1000-or-so working satellites in orbit would stop working. That's an immediate $100 billion cost right there.

    Banks rely on the super-accurate time signals from the GPS satellites, so then you couldn't get your money.

    Now the electrical grids around the world are mostly old, fragile and overloaded. In the USA alone, minor solar storms already cause breakdowns to the grid that increase the cost of electricity by $500 million every 18 months.
    But a Carrington Event, when the Sun had a major hissy fit, would kill the entire electrical grid of North America.

    And computers and similar sensitive electronic equipment all over the planet would die from electrical spikes inside their delicate low-voltage circuits.

    I read this and immediately quit my job, withdrew my life savings, bought a small plot of land in a secret remote location with no civilisation (it's that bit of green on the map right next to Ninety Mile Beach up north in New Zealand), and am moving there on Saturday.

    Agree with the parent poster. If something like this happens, and it's really this kind of an epic disaster as painted by the article, you won't have to worry about your source code because the few people who might escape with computers unscathed won't have electricity to run them. If something like this happens, on the scale described in the article, your source code will probably be the last thing on your mind. You'll be concentrating on how to get as much fun as possible before society degrades to an untenable point.

    Goodness knows how realistic this picture is; but I'm not going to be worrying about my job if it truly does get to this point.

  72. Re:Both optical media and magnetic media are immun by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2

    Magnetic tape is hard to erase; it takes a big magnet within inches of the tape. Degaussing most modern tape cartridges takes a field strength above 1000 gauss. The earth's magnetic field is around 0.5 gauss. It varies during solar flares and other events, but the numbers are all below 1 gauss. MRI scanners are in the 500 gauss range, and at those field strengths, metal objects become projectiles.

    MRI scanners are generally well above 10,000 gauss (one tesla). So are Buckyballs and speaker magnets.

    MRI magnets turn metal objects into projectiles because their magnets are large, and therefore their fields reach a long way. A magnet's "pull" falls off very sharply at distances much larger than the distance between the magnet's poles. That's why degaussers need to be physically close to the tape.

    Remember, most hard drives contain extremely powerful magnets within their housing to drive the head-positioning coils. But the field falls off so fast that it doesn't erase the platters spinning just millimeters away.

  73. Re:M-Disk by v1 · · Score: 1

    I'll take good ol fashioned stone tablets any day. THOSE have withstood the test of time.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  74. Re:Old tech to the rescue by pthisis · · Score: 1

    And I think you are mistaken on the size of some of those items. Doom came on three(?) floppy discs. Or are you expecting me to believe the geniuses who created Doom would distribute it in a format larger than the one used to fully express the editable data for the artwork and levels?

    It's not uncommon for executables to be bigger than source code. And Doom distributed the runtimes that come with the compiler in the binary distro.

    And Doom3's art assets are certainly larger than 9.5MB.

    You're right, the images directory turns out to be an empty skeleton. My bad there. I still think the main point (that 1GB is orders of magnitude bigger than most Android games) is valid, though.

    --
    rage, rage against the dying of the light