Side-Effect of the Apple v. Samsung Trial: Increased Sales for Samsung

New submitter jbernardo writes "There seems to be an interesting side-effect of the flawed jury verdict of last Friday — Samsung sales have surged. Even with the approach of the launch of Apple's new iPhone, the Galaxy SIII is sold out in many stores, and there is a measurable increase in sales, according to Trip Chowdhry, the managing director of equity research at Global Equities Research, cited in Forbes. Maybe Apple really managed to convince its customers that Samsung phones are equivalent or better, so they are being overcharged? Or is it a rush to buy the currently best smartphone in the market in case there is an injunction on its sale in the U.S. any time soon?"

Comments

Streisand effect?

[Reibisch]

At this scale? That'd be interesting.

Re:Streisand effect?

[kthreadd]

Fairly sure it's not because of the trial.
There's a lot of factors to consider.

Re:Streisand effect?

[noh8rz8]

My intuition is that this bump is not due to people switching from apple to Samsung. I wouldn't be surprised if they picked up a couple people who would have otherwise gone htc, moto, etc.

Re:Streisand effect?

[EdIII]

Not really all that many factors.

It is supposed to be a kick ass Android product. Pretty good chance it will be banned from sales in the future.

I can easily see people that might have waited otherwise rushing to get it now before they can't. What's the alternative? Apple??

Yeah, right. There are quite a number of people out there that would sooner die then choose Apple because of their shiny retarded walled garden approach to computing. I'll go back to a clamshell phone before I choose Apple for anything.

I don't know what Apple is thinking here. People that want Apple, largely have it. People that will never choose Apple are not going to embrace them, especially if they approach competition like this. Nobody likes to be forced.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Desler]

How is there a 'pretty good chance' of the G3 being banned when it wasn't ruled infringing and isn't part of the list that Apple is asking to be blocked?

Re:Streisand effect?

[dimeglio]

It's simply, imho, a question of what's the newest and greatest. At this time, Apple has the iPhone 4S and Samsung recently released the SIII. It should be popular since people are attracted to new things. Once the iPhone 5 is out and if it has enough of a cool factor, perhaps we'll see another switch in who's on top...

Re:Streisand effect?

[ewibble]

What would be ironic if Android phone sales where band in the US only, after years of delaying movies releases into other markets. So US consumers can feel hard done by, by there own laws. What I hope for is that companies like Google start to realise that the patient system is not in there best interest and start to campaign for its overhaul.

Re:Streisand effect?

[jedidiah]

Samsung has become more trendy independent of this trial.

The public is fickle and Samsung is their new fad. This was something that you might have noticed before this judgement was handing down. This influenced my local iFan to defect from iPhone to G3.

Access to a Samsung tablet also helped. That access was enabled by the fact that a smaller Android tablet represents more of an impulse buy. It's something that is cheap enough that someone might buy it just to try it out.

Now the iFan wants a full sized Galaxy Tab and doesn't pay much attention to her iPad anymore.

Re:Streisand effect?

[P-niiice]

For me the factor is: "Apple will never get a cent of my money" and it's time for my upgrade, so it's a pretty new Galaxy S3 for me!

Re:Streisand effect?

[wierd_w]

kettle? black much?

Calling hyperbole on something that could be true, then upping that hyperbole by asserting people who would vote with their wallets are mentally deficient seems a bit.. erhm.... Tacky. No?

Me? I havent liked Apple, ever. Nothing about their products strikes me as being desirable. Then again, I am a total nerd. I would go back to a clamshell too if the only touch devices on the market were made by Apple. I would do it out of spite. Since I exist, it is likely that others exist, so the OP's statement may not be such hyperbole.

What I take exception to is being called mentally deficient. I dont care if Apple's phone came with a hotline app straight to God himself. I wouldn't buy it. My choice to do so is motivated by Apple's (VERY LONG) history of spurious barratry and legal shenanigans. I believe that such litigiousness is the root cause of many of my country's problems, and will not willingly support that behavior. If that means buying an inferior phone, so be it.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Intropy]

One presumes the phones in question have markedly different prices as well.

Re:Streisand effect?

[marcosdumay]

There are quite a number of people out there that would sooner die then choose Apple because of their shiny retarded walled garden approach to computing.

In fact, I know quite a few people that won't choose Apple because of their walled garden, but don't even know what that is, or that the iStuff have one.

People just try both phones, and one you can configure, add all kinds of different things, and have a lot of similar apps to choose from, in the other you just can't, can't and don't. People don't need even knowledge of IT or business practices to notice that.

Now that I've tought about it, that's how Apple lost in the PC too.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Chibi Merrow]

Have you used an S3?

Re:Streisand effect?

[mSparks43]

I'm fairly sure it is because of the trial.

As I read the headlines all I could think of is...

"So Apple have just proved Samsung stuff is the same", "WoW, that's goona hurt their brand recognition".

Apple: foot meet mouth.

Apple will probably lose 10 times the judgement in sales now all there media led clientÃle have officially been told there is nothing special about Apple products you can't buy cheaper elsewhere.

Re:Streisand effect?

[gmack]

The obvious hyperbole aside, unless, of course, you were serious and do know of people with such obvious mental deficiencies, it is a bit rich that you would opt for a phone that is more limited and, likely, locked down than an iPhone.

Likely what? Have you never used a Samsung? It is as capable as any other Android phone I've used. You are free to transfer files over USB.or WiFi and there is nothing stopping you from installing apps without using the app store.

On top of that, they don't lock their boot loader so if you don't like their software rooting or installing a custom version of android is very simple.

How does any of that qualify as locked down?

Re:Streisand effect?

[amRadioHed]

Why do you think Samsung phones being popular is a trend or fad? Maybe they're actually making good phones that do what people want.

Re:Streisand effect?

[noh8rz8]

I think you can get an iPhone 3GS for free with contact... So you can meet your criteria but also have an iPhone. Alternatively, if you buy an unlocked phone on Craigslist or whatever, then no worries about the money going to apple.

Re:Streisand effect?

[AK Marc]

What I take exception to is being called mentally deficient. I dont care if Apple's phone came with a hotline app straight to God himself. I wouldn't buy it.

An emotional response that completely overwhelms logic does indicate a mental deficiency of some kind.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Forty Two Tenfold]

more limited and, likely, locked down than an iPhone

Apple makes the best FUD. And I'm a gourmet.

Re:Streisand effect?

[wierd_w]

And quoting out of context, without the rationale behind the statement is specious.

Or, do you have a mental deficiency that prevents you from seeing the logic behind why I do not want to buy apple products, even when clearly written for you?

Re:Streisand effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you think Samsung phones being popular is a trend or fad? Maybe they're actually making good phones that do what people want.

Long term, pretty much everything is a fad.

Re:Streisand effect?

[wierd_w]

I didnt say that.

I said I would use an inferior phone. More hyperbole?

Re:Streisand effect?

[steelfood]

Samsung phones have been determined to be equivalent to Apple's iPhone. So you don't have to settle for 2nd best anymore.

Re:Streisand effect?

[flex941]

It's not free if it comes with contract.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Forty Two Tenfold]

An emotional response that completely overwhelms logic does indicate a mental deficiency of some kind.

You're not really the most logical person, Mr United States of Mexico.

Re:Streisand effect?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Maybe they're actually making good phones that do what people want.

When a recent review for a Samsung tablet by an Android site says something like this I doubt it :

"The build quality. Terrible even by Samsung's low standards. The back is actually squishy, and you can feel it deform while holding it. It's noisy too, the plastic creaks, groans, and grinds when you pick it up. Regular, strong plastic would still be unacceptable when everyone else uses aluminum, but this... this is insulting for a $500 tablet"

Re:Streisand effect?

[atlasdropperofworlds]

> If you would rather die than choosing an iPhone

This is why iHate exists. The blatant inability to comprehend sentences coupled with extremely aggressive vitriol. This is what defines the apple fanboy. This is what alienates others even further from the platform - they don't want to be associated with individuals such as this.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

more locked down? you mean like the open access to the file system? the ability to download ANY file from the internet, whether it be PDF (the only thing you can download on apple mobile products), a zip, a mkv, mp3, etc, etc. the ability to use torrent? the 4g access? i don't understand your logic behind saying the galaxy s3 is more locked down than an iphone.
  but okay, go ahead and close your eyes when crossing the street.

Re:Streisand effect?

[docmordin]

Then apparently you parsed my post incorrectly, whilst I, in turn, did the same to yours, as I did not envision that someone could misinterpret my reference to hyperbole and not see it applied solely to: "[t]here are quite a number of people out there that would sooner die then choose Apple because of their shiny retarded walled garden approach to computing" versus: "it is a bit rich that you would opt for a phone that is more limited and, likely, locked down than an iPhone". Albeit unintentional, if you were offended, I do apologize.

Nevertheless, to make things perfectly clear, I am not saying that people voting with their wallets or choosing an inferior product, where the qualifier is subjective, are cognitively impaired.

Re:Streisand effect?

[EdIII]

No hyperbole at all.

A walled garden approach to computing is absolutely detrimental to just about everything. Only the lack of sophistication with people in the garden allows them to be there. At this point it is almost impossible to argue that cyberspace is not a dimension of our lives in which so much of what we can do, will do, and what others will do to us, is manifested there. We affect it, it affects us.

There is a disparity in how we understand our rights, freedom, and privacy in "meat space" and cyber space. Something that an average person would revolt against in meat space is curiously just fine in cyberspace, even though it will have the same affect ultimately.

If I choose a clamshell phone I am not financially supporting that abhorrent infrastructure and philosophy. Is the clamshell phone locked down and hard to modify? Perhaps, but it is certainly the lesser of two evils.

Why would you rail against tyranny and oppression in the "real world" and be so quick to accept it in cyberspace?

Re:Streisand effect?

[anagama]

Show me the free iphone WITHOUT a contract. A contract phone is not free because you end up paying more for service than on a MTM plan.

mtm
$60/mo, "unlimited" talk/text/web (2 gb @ 4G)
http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/monthly-4g-plans

contract
$69.99/mo, "unlimited" talk/text/web (2 gb @ 4G)
http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/individual-plans.aspx

So over two years, the free phone costs 239.76.

Re:Streisand effect?

[noh8rz8]

many apps are available for free...

Re:Streisand effect?

[Isara]

It also has a lot to do with brand awareness. Before the trial, Samsung was kind of a "generic" brand, not a hip brand like Apple. Now it's gone up against Apple and has a sheen of the bad boy, and people will remember its name when they go looking for phones.

Re:Streisand effect?

[PeanutButterBreath]

Samsung phones have been determined to be equivalent to Apple's iPhone.

At least equivalent to the iPhone.

Re:Streisand effect?

[EdIII]

let alone anyone else, would clearly exhibit a dearth of faculties, as you would be willing to forfeit your existence over something so trivial as a piece of technology.

Your failure is thinking the choice of technology is trivial. It is not trivial, but in fact crucial to our very future. That is not hyperbole.

How we approach computing in the future with respect to freedom, privacy, and anonymity will be a deciding factor in the very nature of freedom, privacy, and anonymity outside of computing.

It is inarguable that our lives in cyberspace and "meat space" are progressively becoming so intertwined as to be effectively indistinguishable. If you want to argue that is untrue, explain how somebody was arrested for a tweet? How the stock markets can lost a half a billion in a matter of moments affecting the economies? How we could have massive power outages due to negligence or malicious hackers? How an incorrectly entered piece of data in an insurance carrier platform can result in suspended license plates and somebody being pulled over and arrested? How child porn could be put on a machine and result in the loss of freedom for an individual?

The walled garden is a very simple paradigm:

1) You own nothing.
2) Your very existence is at the discretion of the garden. Failure to comply with the will of the garden can result in punishment, which can be all the way up to expulsion from the garden.
3) You may only perform actions that are compliance with the will of the garden.
4) You may not perform any actions that could endanger the garden, or make it less "shiny".
5) The garden cannot be wrong.

At first glance that may seem like hyperbole, but is quite accurate.

Now apply that to real life and see if you would not be part of a revolution to overthrow it .

Re:Streisand effect?

[Urza9814]

Yea, for free, with contract...meaning the phone is being paid as part of his monthly contract cost, which means he's paying for the phone.

But yea, getting one on Craigslist would work...but you're still increasing their market share and ending up with a crippled device...

Re:Streisand effect?

[pdabbadabba]

What if I told you that Samsung has also sued its competitors for patent infringement?

Re:Streisand effect?

[amRadioHed]

My Galaxy Nexus has none of those issues and is a solid phone that I'm very happy with. Since my personal anecdote trumps random person on the Internet's anecdote, Q.E.D.

Re:Streisand effect?

[docmordin]

My comment was intended as raillery. The fact that you view it, if I am understanding you correctly, as aggressive vitriol is a bit surprising, considering that there are far more severe ways to excoriate someone.

Oh, and as an aside, I own no Apple products and am definitely not a fanatic of theirs, let alone any other company.

Re:Streisand effect?

[GPierce]

Jobs sunk Apple back in the early 1980s due to his anal-retentive approach to marketing. Large numbers of potential developers took one look at the developers agreement of the time and decide to become IBM PC developers.

If it weren't for Apples superior graphics, the probably would have lost everyone. Similarly, the end-user market rejected Apple because you couldn't install a third-party hard drive. If Apple didn't offer it, you couldn't get it.

There is nothing irrational about refusing to do business with this kind of company. Jobs saved their butt with a truly creative product design - and then proved that in thirty years, he hadn't learned a damn thing. In two years, Android has taken over half the market. In five years, Apple will be back to being a marginal player with about 10% market share. .

Supporting this kind of company demonstrates a kind of mental deficiency. The intelligent rational people will avoid Apple products until we see that Apple has finally learned something and changed it's evil ways.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Anubis IV]

Keep referring to it as "G3" and Apple might have something to say about it. ;)

Re:Streisand effect?

[PeanutButterBreath]

. . . or other garbage android has been known for. . .

Apple's app store is crammed with garbage and nobody can set up a garbage-free alternative.

The code itself may be "safe", but I consider having my time wasted to be malicious.

Re:Streisand effect?

[PeanutButterBreath]

many apps are available for free...

There is "free" stuff in every trash receptacle in every town.

Re:Streisand effect?

[pspahn]

Well played.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Samsung made a bad tablet, therefore all of their phones must be bad?

Um, sure. Lets use one specific tablet review to judge Samsung's phones instead of the many reviews of the actual phones (pretty much all of which I've seen are very positive.)

Re:Streisand effect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is not hyperbole because in context it is clearly not intended literally (it can be intended literally, but that's much rarer and context should make it obvious).

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole?s=t

hyperbole, noun:
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Re:Streisand effect?

[noh8rz8]

That is true, but how is it relevant? Parent is concerned that by purchasing apps, he is sending money to apple. I'm pointing out that many apps are free, and he can purchase them without sending money to apple. And all the default apps are already great, so you can make phone calls, send text messages etc right out of the box.

Re:Streisand effect?

[ilsaloving]

The only reason it's crammed full of garbage is because it's the current top mobile store and everyone wants to try to make a buck.

There is is also a large amount of crap on the android store. And while yes you can use other stores, you also risk installing malicious software. Even Google's store has been hit several times. While Apple's app store is hardly trouble-free, it's still much a much safer option to use if you don't know enough to tell if the app you're about to install is actually legit.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Krojack]

When site review makes comments such as "The back is actually squishy, and you can feel it deform while holding it." I start taking everything else with a grain of salt. To tell if this is true just drive to a store that has them on display and see for yourself.

This is why I also ignore ALL movie critics. They never see things the same as I do.

Re:Streisand effect?

[viperidaenz]

That might depend on the iPhone 5 dock connector. Rumor has it it's going to change and no one will be able to used their old accessories.

Re:Streisand effect?

[devjoe]

And none of those phones are relevant here. The comparison is between Samsung Android phones (including but not limited to the ones in the $1 billion trial) and iPhones.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Krojack]

But has any other CEO ever openly stated they will do anything to destroy another company or product?

The Article.

I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong. I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this.

I don't want your money. If you offer me $5 billion, I won't want it. I've got plenty of money. I want you to stop using our ideas in Android, that's all I want.

The way I see it, Apple is scared. They have NOTHING new up their sleeve. The iPhone really hasn't changed much over since the first one. The shape, the display and a little more powerful is all. Other then that the iOS has generally stayed the same. Look at Android changes since version 1.2. Each one is a massive improvement on speed, interface and useability.

If Apple wants to compete then they need to do two things:
1. Lower the prices of their products. Paying 30-75% more for a product that looks pretty and has a fancy glowing Apple logo isn't worth it.
2. Make a version of their desktop OS that can also run on a PC and sell that straight out.

Re:Streisand effect?

[pdabbadabba]

You do know that Steve Jobs is no longer the CEO of Apple, right? In fact, I hear he might be dead.

Re:Streisand effect?

[davewoods]

This AC forgot a big one: Customization. In order to customize an iPhone, you have to jailbreak it. Android? No problem, just hop on over to the market.

Re:Streisand effect?

[msauve]

" the end-user market rejected Apple because you couldn't install a third-party hard drive."

You're making things up.

Re:Streisand effect?

[AK Marc]

And quoting out of context, without the rationale behind the statement is specious.

If the statement does not stand alone, a longer quote would not make any difference other than to waste the time of those following the thread. You have an emotional aversion to Apple, even if originally based in fact, it no longer is.

You might as well be arguing that Kosher is not religious in nature because it originated from clenliness best practices from a time when germs were not understood. Just because the origins were rational does not mean the conclusion or current practice is. You hate Apple. You wouldn't buy a product of theirs that met your needs perfectly. That's not rational, even if you believe your hate of Apple to have originated rationally.

Re:Streisand effect?

[davewoods]

In five years, Apple will be back to being a marginal player with about 10% market share.

And then in five more years, they will find some way to be more innovative by pushing the boundaries of technology. Another revolution in computing will come about, sealed up in another walled garden.
And thus, the cycle is complete. Repeat as necessary.

Re:Streisand effect?

[davewoods]

Oh snap.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Max Rool]

I was also trying to think of what year this was or what model of apple computer it was that you could not install a third party hard drive? Unless my defintion and their definition of install is differnt?
Will somebody enlighten me?

Re:Streisand effect?

[Scoth]

This is another of those sorta-kinda things. Apple's hard drive formatting software refused to work on most third party drives. There were/are resedit hacks that allow it to work, but in the pre-internet days such things were touchy.

This led to the proliferation and great success of a lot of third-party disk formatting utilities and drivers like FWB Toolkit, Anubis SCSI tools, etc. IIRC it was around the Mac OS 8 era when it was made more universal.

Re:Streisand effect?

[oztiks]

Riiight because buying something that's "fashionable" ISN'T something an Apple customer does right?

If it wasn't for mass media campaigns and the grand entrance of Jobs at his Keynotes being shown on every prime time news station as a "feel good" piece Apple wouldn't of had sales frenzies either. It's safe to assume it cuts both ways.

Re:Streisand effect?

[McFly777]

Gee, from your description of "the garden" you could almost be describing the the original "Garden"... Eden.

(assuming you slightly merge God in the descriptions, but the concepts are closely related anyway.)

Re:Streisand effect?

[Nexzus]

Meh. I have a work supplied S3 that I got after I cracked the screen of my Desire HD.

I like some aspects of the phone - its screen, its speediness (both processing and downloading), its weight.

However, there's a few things that irk me about the stock build (no desire to root it ATM):

• can't disable Confirm Delete prompt in the email app
• no stock music player controls on the lock screen when secured with PIN
• stock web browser can't always wrap text properly
• no comma without longpress on the stock keyboard
• no new email notification if the phone is locked with the email app active
• and Samsung widgets suck ass compared to their HTC counterparts

Yes, I am aware that most of my complaints have the word "stock" in them, and really that's the best feature of Android - its robustness for change. However, I didn't have any of these issues with my bone stock Desire HD, and I wished I was given the option of HTC One X instead of the S3, but oh well. It is what it is.

A phone can have the most impressive specs imaginable, but if you don't like actually using it, what's the point?

Re:Streisand effect?

[AmiMoJo]

There is an equal amount of crap on the iOS App Store. Wikipedia says there are over 700,000 apps on it, and I somehow doubt even 10% of them are gold. Any way you look at it there are a hell of a lot of 100th rate fart sound and cracked screen apps pushing up the numbers.

Actually that's kind of an achievement, writing an app that really is worse than 99 other very similar apps. Congrats to that guy.

You also seem to be implying that somehow Apple is better at keeping malware out. Apple does not have magical powers to detect malware, if anything Google has far more experience from searching for it on the web, and so far there is no evidence that more of it makes it way onto Play than does on to the App Store. Yes, if you go into the settings and tick the box that lets you install apps from other locations and then install some dodgy 3rd party market or junk you pirated then yes, you are more vulnerable, but that is the price of freedom for those who want it.

Re:Streisand effect?

[beck24]

Anecdotal of course, but I just switched from an iPhone to a Samsung. Knowledge of the potential injunction played a small but not insignificant part, though mostly it was a price vs functionality decision. The Samsung was just the better deal.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Jerry Atrick]

Bullshit. Samsung's copying made it the easiest target and one with the best chance of an Apple win. Easiest starting point, not the only attack, not even the real target.

Apple expected to get a precedent setting win for their ludicrous design patents from a jury that had to rule on the blatant Samsung UI copying, must have seemed guaranteed that jury would find it easy to give Apple everything. That's the precedent needed to simplify going after every Android device and Android itself. What actually happened is a tainted jury decided they could punish Samsung without bothering with the work involved in assessing the design patent claims, so they just skipped those claims as not infringed.

Apple had every intention of attacking Android, not just Samsungs skin on it. A lazy jury just put a huge obstacle on that plan, if Samsung's devices didn't infringe it's hard to imagine anyone's devices could infringe. An Apple friendly jury just wrecked Apples war against Android.

Re:Streisand effect?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

He says "Build quality is terrible even by Samsungs low standards." I assume that since this is a review on an Android site he sees a fair number of these. Thought it was interesting, I'm not into Android so I can't gauge how that community actually feels about Samsung products but clearly some are less than enthusiastic. And of course I love the glass and aluminum thing so anything plastic (and I do own that kind of gadget) feels cheap and creaky so it speaks to my biases.

Re:Streisand effect?

[msauve]

That didn't mean you couldn't install or use a third party drive. Third parties just needed to provide their own drivers. Although they had better performance, and allowed more drives (and device types) on the bus, SCSI drives were more varied than the ST-506 and PATA drives they overlapped.

Apple simply didn't want to support drives they hadn't done their own testing on, so left it to the third parties to support them.

Regardless, the GP statement that you couldn't install a third party drive was incorrect. By the logic of that claim, PCs wouldn't let you install network adapters, because you had to install drivers, while all Macs came with networking built in.

Re:Streisand effect?

[glucoseboy]

But Man was kicked out of the Garden for Sin. We can never go back....Long Live Android.

Re:Streisand effect?

[elashish14]

Ah, the irony...

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/08/30/2012249/apple-rejects-drone-strike-app

And how would you defend the overlords you worship on that one?

Re:Streisand effect?

[PeanutButterBreath]

The only reason it's crammed full of garbage is because it's the current top mobile store and everyone wants to try to make a buck.

The point is that, because of Apple's careful curation of their app store, they are responsible for the thousands of garbage apps that they carefully vet and approve. What they offer is "legit", but only if you don't count being jerked around just so that they can pad their marketing schtick.

Re:Streisand effect?

[PapayaSF]

When site review makes comments such as "The back is actually squishy, and you can feel it deform while holding it." I start taking everything else with a grain of salt. To tell if this is true just drive to a store that has them on display and see for yourself.

Or you could just go to the link in the parent post, read the review online, and watch the short videos they made of the back of the tablet deforming and making noises. Unless you suspect an Android fan site of making fake videos in order to criticize an Android tablet.

Re:Streisand effect?

[QuasiSteve]

I would be very surprised if there weren't an adapter released by Apple (similar to how they're on board with micro USB for devices ...through an adapter) if the two are incompatible form-factor-wise.

But given the rumors that the iPhone 5 may be physically larger, there's certainly a lot of docks, sleeves, etc. manufactured to form-fit the existing iPhone, that it physically won't fit in.
On the up side - all the dock makers can make iPhone 5 ones and get a new infusion of customers' cash. Pretty sweet deal, really.

Re:Streisand effect?

[PeanutButterBreath]

That is true, but how is it relevant?. Parent is concerned that by purchasing apps, he is sending money to apple. I'm pointing out that many apps are free, and he can purchase them without sending money to apple.

It is relevant if the free apps are garbage, and apps worth having require the user to send money to Apple.

And all the default apps are already great, so you can make phone calls, send text messages etc right out of the box.

Wow, out-of-the-box calling and text messaging with a phone? What a coup! I hope Apple got a patent for these innovations.

Re:Streisand effect?

[viperidaenz]

Sweet deal for everyone but the customers. Maybe I should invest in some iPhone accessory companies...

Re:Streisand effect?

[RabidTimmy]

No, you probably don't like the walled garden. What you like is an app store that verifies programs are virus free on the consumer side and DRM on the developer side.

Re:Streisand effect?

[horza]

Well if we are going anecdotal, the build quality of my Galaxy S2 is excellent. Despite being dropped numerous times it remains unblemished and the screen scratch-free. It's light, screen quality excellent, and if the Galaxy Note 2 is anything like the S2 then I will be a very happy consumer.

Phillip.

Re:Streisand effect?

[cheesybagel]

He's an idiot. I have had a couple of Samsung devices pass by my hands and they did not have such a terrible build quality. Remember the original iPhone screen scratches that made everyone add stick on transparent covers to the screen? Or the iPhone 4 plastic case contraption to mitigate the antenna troubles?

Now that was poor build quality...

Re:Streisand effect?

[cheesybagel]

The fact is Samsung mobiles devices do not have a terrible build quality. The build quality is similar to what you would find in a Sony Ericsson phone or the iPhone. Plastic and glass (it seems metal bezels are patented by Apple).

Re:Streisand effect?

[Zero_DgZ]

Check out the Kyocera Echo, then. It was sort of a flop, but it is a thing that exists pretty much exactly as you describe.

On the Apple vs. Samsung note, I went out and bought two Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0's on the day of the verdict. The presence of that stupid-ass lawsuit did not have much impact on my eyeballing of a Samsung device -- Rather, that was more because Samsung currently has the best 7.0" device on the market -- But it did have plenty to do with my decision to go out, vote with my wallet, and spend that money right then.

My main gripe with Apple is that I would dearly desire both the company itself and all of its loser fanpeople to just shut the fuck up already. They have their iThings, and that's nice. I don't need to hear the marketing crap every four seconds about how Apple invented the smartphone (they didn't), the walled garden model (they didn't), the all-screen "slate" form factor (they didn't), and celebrations of the fact that the iDevices still do not have innovations like card slots, IR ports, USB host functionality, etc., etc. that have already existed for decades. I'm sure Apple will come along and "invent" all of those things later, in the iPhone 6, 7, 8, and 9. Don't even get me started on the goddamned "retina" display. Whoopy-doo, Apple made an iPhone with almost the same pixel density of my seriously unhip Dell Axim x50v, circa 2004. Maybe Dell could sue them for that.

Re:Streisand effect?

[BasilBrush]

Remember the original iPhone screen scratches that made everyone add stick on transparent covers to the screen?

Apple used Gorilla Glass from the start. No other phone has anything any more scratch resistant. It's possible to scratch ANY glass screen, but Apple no more than any other and less than most.

Or the iPhone 4 plastic case contraption to mitigate the antenna troubles?
Now that was poor build quality...

No, that was a design problem. The build quality was fine.

Re:Streisand effect?

[BasilBrush]

Analyst checks out a few stores, in a window of a couple of days. Notes some phones are sold out. Issues no figures (because he has none).

Come back when there's an actual story containing some real stats.

Re:Streisand effect?

[otterpop81]

Show me the free iphone WITHOUT a contract. A contract phone is not free because you end up paying more for service than on a MTM plan.

So over two years, the free phone costs 239.76.

Unfortunately, that doesn't matter to most people because most people don't care what anything actually costs; they just care how much per month it costs, and even that doesn't mater (in this case) because many of those people can't afford to shell out for a phone outright, at least for their definition of the word "afford."

I'd like to see the google-style model of cell phone purchasing take off and get us as a society off this contract business, but if the current product offerings are any indication, that's not what the majority of people want. It's sad really. Most people are perfectly happy for "free" to mean "you pay more every month for 24 months."

Re:Streisand effect?

[AK Marc]

Hmm, I haven't seen too many in the US having issues with Mitsubishi cars, or Germans refusing to buy Rolls Royce because of the war implications. And the VW was, for the longest time, the best selling car in history, so it didn't have too much of an effect on people's purchasing.

Re:Streisand effect?

[AmberBlackCat]

For what it's worth, I am a random person on the internet and I'm pleased with the hardware side of my Galaxy Tab 10.1. The software disappointed me a bit. I like the Sense UI on my EVO 3D, and I can't believe the Samsung tablet has no way to mount it as a giant USB drive. But the hardware is fine.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Compaqt]

I think Samsung should take out ads saying "Our phone's so good, Apple's has to use lawyers (show a picture of lizards) to stop you from buying it."

Re:Streisand effect?

[f16c]

I've actually known Samsung for some time as a reasonably priced alternative but well-built brand for a lot of things like monitors, optical drives and memory...and phones. The Galaxy S II is my second Samsung phone but my first Android phone. My wife had an iPhone first. She said that, all things being equal, the Galaxy phone would have been fine because the screen is bigger and it seems to work fine. It's not as reliable as hers though as I've had to pull the battery a few times after lockups. I suspect this is more an Android issue than a Samsung issue though.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Compaqt]

I think the problem is the ridiculously low interest rates available in the US because of the Fed's printing of money.

If interest rates weren't so low, carriers could not afford to finance phones for users.

Financed plans would be a lot more expensive, and buy your own phone would seem a lot better financially.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Compaqt]

I think Samsung needs some edgy ads.

I think Samsung has a "huge Korean conglomerate that basically runs Korea" vibe while Apple has a hipster vibe (which actually being pure evil).

To overcome that, Samsung runs basically generic ads (like the one introducing their S3) with happy moms taking pictures of kids.

But it needs something more, something game-changing. Make buying Samsung be like standing up to the man.

Re:Streisand effect?

[ilsaloving]

I did indeed intend to imply that Apple takes better care of it's app store. Has it been perfect? Course not. They've missed a few bad... err.. apples, and they've blocked legitimate apps for very dubious reasons, but in general it's good. The reputation of Apple's app store is 'safe'. Googles? Not nearly so. Hell, they didn't even perform malware detection until relatively recently.

And yes, having the freedom to do what you want with your device does have the cost of increased vigilance. But this is neither here nor there.

The original point is that the poster feels having to wade through garbage apps to find the good ones is a waste of their time. My point was that it is inevitable for a popular platform to have large quantities of crap software. Heck, the amount of junk available for Windows is incomprehensible. The only difference is that people have already learned to ignore 90% of it and stick with software brands they recognize or have recommended to them. The Apple app store is no different.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Hadlock]

Apple is certainly going to lose a measurable number of longtime customers over the dock connector fiasco. Which, unless they really screw up the iPhone 5 launch, won't make a dent in the sales effect of a new iPhone model launch.

Re:Streisand effect?

[simplexion]

You're a joke.

Re:Streisand effect?

[noh8rz8]

cmon man, don't harsh on me. OP said he wants an iphone but doesn't want to pay money to apple, and I was just offereing suggestions. perhaps he could ask his friends to buy him itunes gift cards, so he could buy apps without paying money.

Re:Streisand effect?

[amRadioHed]

And to be fair to Samsung, the decision to use MTP instead of USB storage when connecting the device to a computer wasn't theirs. That was a change Google made to Android starting with Honeycomb.

Re:Streisand effect?

[dargaud]

Settings > More... > USB utilities > Connect storage to PC > (plug in the cable) > Turn On USB storage > OK

Why they made it so much more complicated than before I have no idea.

Re:Streisand effect?

[pantaril]

What if I told you that Samsung has also sued its competitors for patent infringement?

Can you please provide some example, where samsung used his patents offensively? i tried to search google but i only got hits from recent apple-samsung cases.

Re:Streisand effect?

[nosferatu1001]

Which is only relevant when comparing the total cost. If you end up paying less overall on a monthly plan than buying outright, which is the situation I was in when i took out a phone for 18 month contract, why would you pay more upfront AND in total?

Re:Streisand effect?

[Karlt1]

"the ability to download ANY file from the internet, whether it be PDF (the only thing you can download on apple mobile products), a zip, a mkv, mp3, etc, etc. the ability to use torrent? the 4g access?"

Strangely enough, I have a browser on my phone that can download any file on the internet.....

The app store is your friend.

Re:Streisand effect?

[hazydave]

Depends on what you're used to. The internals on the Galaxy Nexus -- great. Even nearly nine months later, I'm still happy with it (I'd be happier still, I suspect, if Verizon ever gets off their buttocks and pushes out the JellyBean update. Yeah, I know, I can get it elsewhere). The display is amazing, the battery life (with the larger cell) is great. It looks cool, particularly compared to the now-retro-looking iPhone.

But it's got some issues. My previous phone was the O. G. Droid, which might have been kind of ugly (basically the anti-iPhone, in its day), but it was nearly indestructible. The rubber over metal back meant it didn't break, scratch, or slip from your fingers. The glass was unscratchable.

Galaxy Nexus, meanwhile, is none of those things. The glass scratches... it's definitely a notch or two below Gorilla Glass (which they are using on the SIII). The lack of an SD card slot wasn't a deal breaker, but it should be a no-brainer, too.. that's all of what, an extra $0.50 cost? The plastic case is just that -- plain old plastic. The paint scratches off very easily -- I've resorted to using a thin rubber case, which was pointless with the Droid. Meanwhile, Motorola's RAZR didn't have the display, it has a smaller fixed battery (which they half-fixed by changing it to a larger fixed-battery), but it's freakin' Kevlar over polycarbonate or some-such, Gorilla Glass and sealed against moisture, etc. That's thinking about casework. Samsung.. no so much, though I think the SIII looks like maybe they're starting too.

Of course, with the GN, it's also quite possible that Samsung gave Google exactly what they asked for, and nothing extra. Google, most likely, was primarily concerned about what's inside, this being the ICS flagship device, less so about the physical issues than perhaps a proper phone designer would have been.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Agent0013]

What I take exception to is being called mentally deficient.

If you would rather die than choosing an iPhone, be it under any circumstance, as the original poster did not specify, my statement stands: you, let alone anyone else, would clearly exhibit a dearth of faculties, as you would be willing to forfeit your existence over something so trivial as a piece of technology.

And if you would buy an Apple iPhone even if they are using the spleens of newborn babies as snacks for the assembly line workers, then you show a dearth of faculties also. I think it is wise to think about what companies you wish to support and do business with.

Re:Streisand effect?

[FreshlyShornBalls]

When a recent review for a Samsung tablet by an Android site says something like this I doubt it :

"The build quality. Terrible even by Samsung's low standards. The back is actually squishy, and you can feel it deform while holding it. It's noisy too, the plastic creaks, groans, and grinds when you pick it up. Regular, strong plastic would still be unacceptable when everyone else uses aluminum, but this... this is insulting for a $500 tablet"

I think this is one of the fundamental differences between iPhone owners and Android owners: I don't care as much about the aesthetics of the phone and what it's made of. Talk to me about what version of Android it's running and on what hardware. It's also why I wear my phone in a holster even though I know it's not "cool". It's functional....and that's why I have a smartphone in the first place.

I'm not suggesting that everyone who owns an iPhone is about fashion and looks, but there are certainly a good portion of iPhone owners I believe purchased the phone because it's the "in" thing.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Krojack]

I guess you don't recall them being big in the 1980's assuming you were even born yet. They pretty much fell off the map when cheaper PC clones flooded the market. They tried to sue Microsoft but it didn't really do any good. Now they have (or had) another market nitch and well clones that are cheaper (and better in my opinion) are flooding the market and Apple is trying to do anything and everything to stop it this time.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Phoghat]

Anecdotal of course, but I just switched from an iPhone to a Samsung. Knowledge of the potential injunction played a small but not insignificant part, though mostly it was a price vs functionality decision. The Samsung was just the better deal.

Among my wife and I, my 4 sons, their wives and at least one child per son, all having phones, and all going from iOs to Android because of better value, how anecdotal do you you want to get?

Re:Streisand effect?

[Chibi Merrow]

I did. It still feels second rate compared to an iphone,

I don't believe you. Some specifics would help, not vague generalities.

flimsy case too.

You mean not metal and heavy?

Re:Streisand effect?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

It's also why I wear my phone in a holster even though I know it's not "cool".

Ahem

All kidding aside though, it's not about aesthetics alone. If you're going to holding something in your hands for an extended period of time it needs to feel right and it needs to be solid and sturdy.

Re:Streisand effect?

[lsatenstein]

Samsung should get the Apple products banned because they DO infringe on Samsung patents.

Re:Streisand effect?

[RockDoctor]

There is an old joke (sort-of joke, anyway) that "the plural of anecdote is not data." Your seeming plurality of anecdotes still don't comprise data. A reasonably randomised collection of interview transcripts, the results of a collection of street interviews, etc would comprise usable data, but as it stands your anecdote doesn't really cut it. There is too high a likelihood that your 13 (I think) correspondents do not meaningfully represent the general population. For example, your influence as a Linux user (probable, given your presence here on Slashdot) might have biased all of them in a way that the general population don't get biased.

Re:Streisand effect?

[AmberBlackCat]

That doesn't work with the Tabs though, at least in the United States. Here's what you get when you click on "More": Samsung Menu

Re:Streisand effect?

[AmberBlackCat]

My guy told me that. But I was under the impression this problem was fixed with "Ice Cream Sandwich:. The Tab received the ICS update but they didn't add USB support.

Re:Streisand effect?

[Gripp]

I want to say that considering people often go for what is popular (rather than considering features and whatnot) that this surge in sales is simply a matter of spite; people buying samsung simply because they dislike apple's behavior - and chose to support samsung.
But I wont, because I have virtually no evidence to support that theory, and the thought that people behave that way makes me a little sad. (Not the supporting part, but the buying whatever is popular and arbitrary spending out of spite parts. )

Re:Streisand effect?

[EdIII]

That's a possible explanation, but would people really spend hundreds of dollars out of spite?

I would buy it, but not out of spite. If it really is an awesome Android phone with good reviews, and was likely to disappear soon due to spurious, shameful, and spiteful legal action, I would probably rush out to buy it.

That said, I am heavily constrained right now with a cell phone contract and prevented from buying any phone. In the future I cannot depend on subsidies either, as any upgrade of a phone cancels my current unlimited contract.

Re:Streisand effect?

[JabberWokky]

You are absolutely correct. If this were a scientific study, then it would be useless. However, this is an informal discussion, and anecdotes and relating personal stories and positions are part of the point.

Unless... oh, dear Bob... you're not trying to base business decisions on Slashdot discussions, are you?

Re:Streisand effect?

[RockDoctor]

I can't see the leap of logic from where we were to a "business decision". What on earth would I want to get involved in business for? That's a Someone Else's Problem.

People Worried?

[Techmeology]

Law of unexpected consequences: Perhaps people are worried that Samsung devices will become unavailable?

Re:People Worried?

[JWW]

This. Exactly. People who want Samsung devices are moving now out of fear that the currently on sale devices will be pulled.

Re:People Worried?

[Machtyn]

For those who don't want to live in the Apple-verse, would like a little more freedom with their devices and apps, and want one of the best Android devices on the market, this is an obvious move. I understand that Apple wishes to protect its properties, but this limits customer choice. They did, after all, get a nearly 5 year headstart with their devices, made billions of dollars from sales and continued cross-market promotions, etc. But Apple won't make one dime off of me.

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

How does it limit customer choice? Samsung will go back to the drawing board and come out with some killer features that don't infringe. Wouldn't that be more customer choice?

Re:People Worried?

[MikeBabcock]

Killer new features on phones that don't infringe on Apple's patents in question (while disallowing prior art as this jury did) would be nearly impossible, considering the actual areas Apple was complaining about.

Icon shape and dispersion? Jeez.

Re:People Worried?

[PeanutButterBreath]

How does it limit customer choice?

It prevents people from buying a phone that has everything that they like about the iPhone, but is also an improvement on the iPhone. This is exacerbated by Apple's own policies that hinder their customer's ability to make their own improvements to their own property.

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

Week that's the issue in a nutshell, isn't it? People like the iPhone for iPhone features. Another company wants to make their own phone with iPhone features. But this is illegal. So apple sues and wins. If another company wants to make an iPhone killer, why not just design a better phone? Just a thought.

Re:People Worried?

[blind biker]

How does it limit customer choice?

Banning a product from the US market limits customer choice by the fact that the US customers cannot buy the banned product, DUH!

I actually feel a bit dirty even to try and clarify this to you; the question itself is utterly moronic.

Re:People Worried?

[MozeeToby]

How does it limit customer choice?

You need to do a google search for the phrase "chilling effect".

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

It will limit customer choice in the short term, but in 6 months a diverse phone ecosystem will bloom. Winning.

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

Googled it... Don't need a fridge, thankyouverymuch. Ahh, SEO...

Re:People Worried?

[PortHaven]

They did....

But Apple sued them over false patents which they stole from Palm.

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

Well, let's iterate a bit instead of fretting over the past. Guaranteed, the s4 will be super sweet now!

Re:People Worried?

[CanHasDIY]

It prevents people from buying a phone that has everything that they like about the iPhone, but without being subjected to Apple's walled garden approach.

FTFY - personally, I agree that it's better to not be locked down to what the manufacturer thinks you should be allowed to have access to, but I also understand that's a completely subjective position to hold, so I won't say it's necessarily 'better'; just better for me.

This is exacerbated by Apple's own policies that hinder their customer's ability to make their own improvements to their own property.

Anyone who thinks they actually own any Apple product really needs to give the EULA they agreed to a good, thorough read.

Re:People Worried?

[Hatta]

Suppose I want a phone with rounded corners, but will not allow third parties to control my hardware. What choices do I have?

Re:People Worried?

[PeanutButterBreath]

People like the iPhone for iPhone features.

Some do. Some just like the hardware. How many times have you heard people on /. tout Apples's supposedly sterling hardware as an excuse to pay a premium for an Apple product?

Another company wants to make their own phone with iPhone features. But this is illegal. So apple sues and wins. If another company wants to make an iPhone killer, why not just design a better phone? Just a thought.

If a customer wants an phone with features similar to the iPhone, but with a larger screen, removable storage, etc., and Apple doesn't care to provide these options, why shouldn't they be able to buy one from another company that wants to serve their needs? Oh, yeah. "This is illegal".

Re:People Worried?

[PeanutButterBreath]

Its about more than the App Store. There are plenty of reasons why someone might want an iPhone-like handset that improves on the iPhone. Different screen size, removable storage, better calling performance, lower price-point, disagreement with Apple's corporate ethic, etc.

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

If somebody wants a Louis Vuitton handbag, but the actual bags are too expensive, but the guy at the market stall has them for a quarter of the price, then this is great, right? Win win.

Re:People Worried?

[AmiMoJo]

The problem is that Apple has patents on basic, obvious stuff that there is simply no good alternative to. Searching both your device and the internet at the same time, for example. Anything else is just extra work for the user. There is no way to "innovate" around it, the only result of US customers losing that feature is that their phones are now and will forever be less good.

There is even more scary stuff on Apple's books, like scrolling a list at the same speed as you move your finger when dragging it. There is stuff we have already lost as well, such as magnetic power connectors, which Apple did not invent and which no-one else has managed to come up with an alternative to. In the case of MagSafe that is probably because the laws of physics and all the materials currently known to human kind don't allow for any other options.

Part of me hopes that some company gets a patent on a crucial aspect of wireless charging and then licenses it to everyone except Apple. See how the Apple fans feel about infringement after five years of every phone being wirelessly charged except for the iPhone.

Re:People Worried?

[PeanutButterBreath]

If somebody wants a Louis Vuitton handbag, but the actual bags are too expensive, but the guy at the market stall has them for a quarter of the price, then this is great, right? Win win.

The person buying an LV knock-off from a market stall is not a lost LV customer. Again, selling the knock-off might be illegal, but the rationale is weak.

The only 'harm' to LV is some counterfeiter proving that their designs are trivial to copy, and thus not terribly valuable. Conversely, if LV designed a bag that was of such sophisticated manufacture and evident quality that it couldn't be knocked-off, they wouldn't have a counterfeit problem. You know, if they innovated. . .

LV's and Apple are fighting the same war -- trying to maintain the perceived exclusivity of product lines that are no longer innovative.

Re:People Worried?

[stor]

How does it limit customer choice?

It prevents people from buying a phone that has everything that they like about the iPhone, but is also an improvement on the iPhone. This is exacerbated by Apple's own policies that hinder their customer's ability to make their own improvements to their own property.

I wonder whether a larger issue may be that people want the GUI to be consistent, even between different models and makes of phone.

It seems counter-productive to have phones with different GUIs for the sake of avoiding patent infringement. The result is the consumer wastes time re-learning how to use the device.

Re:People Worried?

[sFurbo]

Because there is no difference between patents and trademarks, right?

Re:People Worried?

[noh8rz8]

exactly! thank you, I felt like I was talking to a brick wall.

Yes.

[JCCyC]

Cue Nelson Muntz laugh.

Re:Yes.

[rwong48]

Cue Nelson Muntz laugh.

http://nelson-haha.api-meal.eu/, since http://nelsonhaha.com/ went down. :(

Bias

[Anonymous Coward]

flawed jury verdict

Apple's new shinny

the currently best smartphone in the market

Whoever wrote this made it a touch too clear their loathing for Apple and preference for Samsung.

Re:Bias

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Here's a wholly anti-Samsung piece to even things out:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2012/08/26/devils-advocates-play-up-sympathy-for-samsung-after-apple-trial/

Re:Bias

[wierd_w]

And that is just fine. Opinions are meant to be shared. Goodness knows the apple crowd is very vocal with theirs.

Just remember that loathing apple does not spontaneously elevate the one doing the loathing to Samsung Fanboi.

Re:Bias

[Baloroth]

Haha, thanks for linking to that article, it's quite a hoot to read.

if you read anything about the legal skirmish between Apple and Samsung, and replace “patent infringement” with “real estate title arguments,” the entire argument of the IP communists collapses into dust.

"IP communists"? Really? I think that insult is about 30 years out of date. The irony here, of course, is that copying someone else's product and outselling them doing so is perhaps the ultimate capitalist move.

Re:Bias

[jbernardo]

Loathing for Apple's usage of lawsuits and nonsense patents as a way to protect its business?

Guilty as charged.

Preference for the Galaxy S3 in this moment in time?

Guilty as charged.

I admit, I'm biased. If that is your definition of bias.

But if I could afford it, I'd have a Asus transformer tablet, and I've had HTC, Nokia and Sony-Ericsson smart and feature phones. I have no loyalty to any company. But I can loathe a company that tries to stop competition with frivolous lawsuits, that copies everything and patents the most obvious stuff to stop others doing the same, blocking innovation the same way James Watt's patents blocked the evolution of the steam engine for 30 years.

Re:Bias

[Forty Two Tenfold]

Can we all educate ourselves and consequently stop treating "communist" as a pejorative term?

Re:Bias

[djchristensen]

I'm with you. When the most valuable company in the world, EVER, goes whining to the courts because another company has phones with "pinch zooming" and "rubber-band scrolling", I cannot respect that company and will avoid their products. I mean really, how many iPhone purchases honestly didn't happen because Samsung had these features? Certainly they would have played zero role in any decision I have or would have made.

There are four iPods and an iPad in my household, but those are the last Apple products I'll willingly buy (with a wife and kids, can't really say absolutely never). I'll be getting a smartphone and likely a small tablet for myself soon and won't even consider an iPhone or iPad, with Apple's legal behavior being responsible for going from "would consider" to "no freaking way".

Re:Bias

[jc42]

But I can loathe a company that tries to stop competition with frivolous lawsuits, that copies everything and patents the most obvious stuff to stop others doing the same, blocking innovation the same way James Watt's patents blocked the evolution of the steam engine for 30 years.

It's interesting to read comments pointing out what assorted historians have been saying for a long time: The primary use of patent laws has always been to block technical progress. We keep hearing the propaganda (enshrined in the US Constitution, among other places), that patent law is to encourage progress. But the historical evidence is contrary to this.

The only actual use of a patent to to prevent your competitors from using something. Yes, you can use it to extract royalties, but this is just an indirect way of making the products more expensive, and thus interfering with competitors' development and sales.

But more important than price is the effect of multiple patents. The historians' explanation of Watts' delay of the steam locomotive is that a practical locomotive required a number of other inventions in addition to Watt's efficient steam engine. But Watt and several other inventors each wanted to own it all, and refused to license their inventions to each other unless they each got the lion's share of the results. They pretty much all held out until their patents expired. Then, since Watt had the largest bunch of good engineers working for him, he was able to quickly start manufacturing and selling practical locomotives. He became rather wealthy late in life, but could have become rich decades earlier if he and the other inventors hadn't been so greedy, and had agreed to share the proceeds in a reasonable manner.

Part of the history is also the patenting of well-known ideas. But that's a different story from Watt's. It is a lot of what's going on now in the US, as exemplified by the Apple-Samsung case. We have somewhat reduced it to an ongoing series of jokes about patenting a rectangle with rounded corners. But it's a lot more pervasive than that. There was a cute offshoot of this humor yesterday on SMBC, based on the idea of lawyers in India filing suit against the Western computer industry, based on the fact that the number 0 was invented in India, and stolen by Western traders. (Actually, it was stolen by Arabian traders, but that's "Western" to people in India. ;-)

Re:Bias

[VGPowerlord]

flawed jury verdict

Apple's new shinny

the currently best smartphone in the market

Whoever wrote this made it a touch too clear their loathing for Apple and preference for Samsung.

At least one of those 3 can be factually supported by evidence.

I am, of course, referring to Apple's new shinny.

er... I mean flawed jury verdict.

Re:Bias

[Richy_T]

Not and avoid a paradox.

Re:Bias

[msauve]

"the most valuable company in the world, EVER"

You've never heard of the Dutch East India Company, have you?

Re:Bias

[Rockoon]

The successful examples of communism have been reduced, through attrition, to North Korea and Cuba.

It apparently doesnt require pejoratives to make communism look bad. The big question is not why communism is taken as a pejorative term, but how long before the people in North Korea and Cuba wise the hell up and move in the direction that Russia, China, Vietnam, and Laos have.

Re:Bias

[Rakarra]

"First it's called the free market, not capitalism. The free market requires all participants to engage within the same set of rules and to engage fairly."

I agree completely. What I find most galling is that Apple won a court case accusing Samsung of doing the same thing that Apple has done in years past: take someone else's product and find better ways to improve upon it.

Re:Bias

[otterpop81]

I'm with you. When the most valuable company in the world, EVER, goes whining to the courts because another company has phones with "pinch zooming" and "rubber-band scrolling", I cannot respect that company and will avoid their products. I mean really, how many iPhone purchases honestly didn't happen because Samsung had these features?

I think the better way to think about it is how many Samsung purchases wouldn't have happened if they had not had those features. Pinch-to-zoom is a pretty dang big deal, and IMO fundamental to the way people use mobile devices. Just go look at the reviews of the early Android devices that didn't have it.

I think rubber-banding is a significant innovation as well. When you see it the first time, it's immediately intuitive. There's no questioning what it means. I don't think it's a deal-breaker for anyone though.

I'm in the same boat as you are on currently-owned Apple products though. For a laptop, at least when I bought mine, it was either buy a Windows PC or buy a Mac.

Re:Bias

[Forty Two Tenfold]

The successful examples of communism have been reduced, through attrition, to North Korea and Cuba.

I'm sorry, but no. In those countries there never was communism. In fact I don't think communism ever existed yet, hence my "let's educate ourselves".

Re:Bias

[thegarbz]

Or Mississippi Co, or Standard Oil,

Or actually recently Microsoft, Cisco and Oracle in inflation adjusted terms.

Apple is only the most valuable company, CURRENTLY.

Re:Bias

[hazydave]

The Asus Transformer Prime TF700T is particularly drool-worth. I have an older tablet, and two kids in college, but I'm thinkin'... maybe Christmas...

Re:Bias

[hazydave]

Nope. Or only when you ignore inflation. Once you do account for the change in the value of money over the years, Microsoft peaked higher than Apple is, currently. In 2012 dollars, they hit over $850 billion in 1999. When it debuted in 2007 on the Shanghai stock exchange, PetroChina hit a market cap of $1.32 trillion, in 2012 dollars... and that's even with China's artificially undervalued currency exchange rate.

And then there's the East India company. It was worth something on the order of 78 million Dutch guilders at its peak, which would be about 752,466kg of fine silver (9.647g silver per guilder), or 6,767,998 pounds sterling... other sources suggest it was more like 10M pounds sterling. Using a couple of other calculators (and given that dollars hadn't been invented yet), I get about 1.7-2.5 trillion. Maybe there was a higher peak, but this should establish a bottom line.

Keep in mind, the East India company was crazy by today's standards. It had a virtual monopoly on trade between the UK and India and the East Indies, including opium, tea, saltpeter, dye, fabrics, and others. It had a standing army of 200,000 men, largely than many European nations. It basically won control of Bengal in a war, giving the company direct control of 70 million acres and 90 million people. It had its own currency.

Perhaps this is Apple's model for the future, but while they may exert similar control over your iOS devices, and they're moving in that direction for MacOS, they have to exercise it directly on humans. And while Microsoft did try out their own currency, it failed.

Re:Bias

[Rockoon]

Ah yes, the old "it failed so it couldn't have been communism" argument.

Are you really suggesting that the two examples of successful communism that I listed arent even example of communism, that there are in fact zero examples of successful communism? Amazing that you put such faith in something that has never ever succeeded.

Re:Bias

[Forty Two Tenfold]

It wasn't even attempted communism. It was totalitarianism (politically) and slave labor (economically). For a political system to be called communism it must employ direct democracy.

Re:Bias

[cbiltcliffe]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

a) Racism is unfairness directed at a person. Apple is not a person.

b) Racism targets the victim due to race, something beyond their control. Contrast race to Apple's behaviour, which is certainly completely within their control.

Re:Bias

[djchristensen]

I stand corrected (multiple times). Perhaps instead of "most valuable company in the world, EVER", I should have said "a company as phenomenally successful as Apple (in valuation)". Serves me right for only half paying attention to the media reports about Apple being the highest-valued company, I really should know better.

Re:Bias

[djchristensen]

That line of reasoning is almost completely non-sensical and doesn't really deserve a response.

But "anti-Apple fanboyism"? "Fanboyism" involves an irrational devotion (or repulsion in this case) to a product or company. A reasoned explanation for liking or disliking a product or company does not automatically elevate someone to fanboy status. I think you making that claim only exposes your own fanboyism.

Apple's walled-garden approach makes me queasy, but not enough to dissuede me from considering their products. But their offensive (in both senses of the word) legal attacks are too much for me to further consider purchasing their products. Samsung, Motorola and others are heading in the same direction with all the lawsuits filed all over the world. I'm looking for a tablet for myself and find that Android-based tablets may be my only option, although the fragmentation and version update issues in that market concern me greatly and have kept me from making a choice. And waiting for a Microsoft Surface tablet is out of the question. While I take offense at being characterized as an anti-Apple fanboy, I'll proudly wear the anti-MS fanboy label. I just don't like MS and am not inclined to bother with explaining why (I do have a number of reasons, but it's easier to just hate them).

galaxy s 3 shouldn't be under the banhammer.

[gl4ss]

galaxy s 3 shouldn't be under the banhammer - however it's been on the news due to this a lot.

it's more likely it's something to do with start of school year though.

Re:galaxy s 3 shouldn't be under the banhammer.

[sootman]

> it's more likely it's something to do with start of school year though.

Yeah. I mean, have there ever been ups-and-downs in Samsung sales? I'm sure there has. Maybe it's just coincidental timing. I'd need to see a lot more numbers, more than just six days' worth, to draw any conclusions. If you want to see a "surge" in sales, look at iPhone numbers in about 2-3 weeks.

Re:galaxy s 3 shouldn't be under the banhammer.

[Lost Race]

Or maybe because Fuck Apple In The Ear. I will never give a fucking cent to Apple because of this patent bullshit they're pulling.

Well, I might reconsider IF they drop all their patent suits, AND open-source all their software, AND donate all their cash reserves to charity, AND move all their manufacturing to America, AND a lot of other impossible things happen.

Fuck you, Apple. Fuck you.

To ban or not to ban...

[jeffmeden]

Maybe Apple really managed to convince its customers that Samsung phones are equivalent or better, so they are being overcharged? Or is it a rush to buy the currently best smartphone in the market in case there is an injunction on its sale in the US any time soon?"

It's the latter. Hell, I have been asked (as someone who is known for reading a tech blog or two) if one should worry about their *existing* handset being taken away or somehow immobilized, thanks to the verdict. People just don't get what is going on, and some of them who interpreted the news coverage as an ad for Samsung, saw the "banned sales" headlines and rushed out to buy devices. Hey, if they are worth banning, they must be good right? Just like (make-believe) gun bans threatened in the wake of certain political parties, or bans on the sale of incandescent light bulbs. People react strangely, and they almost NEVER react in favor of whatever it is that the government/courts/etc. threaten to, they do the opposite.

Re:To ban or not to ban...

[Machtyn]

I don't think the premise to the question is correct. I'm thinking the rush is to get some of the better Android devices before sales are discontinued. Not that Apple has convinced anyone that a Samsung device is better.

People do react strangely, but one thing about this is not strange - if a desired item is threatened by banning, then that item will see an increase in sales. People want Samsung devices, Said device is about to leave market, better get one before their gone. People want guns. Guns are under constant threat of being confiscated, better stock up before they are no longer available. Incandescent bulbs are going to be discontinued. After a certain time you won't be able to buy them, better stock up now and have years supply of them. (Especially if you live in a cold winter climate.)

Re:To ban or not to ban...

[steelfood]

It's a bit of both. Some people see the ban hammer coming down, and are rushing to beat it before it gets banned. People who were waiting to buy, for example, because of tight budgets, or because somebody's birthday or anniversary is too far away, are realizing that they can't afford to wait anymore.

At the same time, a lot of people see the verdict as Apple == Samsung, or more importantly, Samsung == Apple. Why bother shelling out extra for the Apple device and pay the Apple Tax if the Samsung one is exactly the same.

Heh heh. And the best part is, not only will this equivalence association be stuck in everybody's heads long after Samsung comes out with non-infringing devices, but because the Samsung devices have more features than Apple's devices, the perception can only go up. The only way Samsung can screw it all up is by releasing a completely crappy flagship device, which won't happen as long as Android belongs to Google.

Re:To ban or not to ban...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah... Samsung gives better value for better product? That must be the reason Samsung's stock value plummeted $12 billion dollars after the verdict was read.

Re:To ban or not to ban...

[jeffmeden]

At the same time, a lot of people see the verdict as Apple == Samsung, or more importantly, Samsung == Apple. Why bother shelling out extra for the Apple device and pay the Apple Tax if the Samsung one is exactly the same.

That would only work if there was a perception that the prices on Apple products are somehow artificially high (or that the features are non equivalent and lacking in the iPhone)... Seeing as how you can get "the best" iPhone 4S 16GB for the exact same price, and with the exact same contract, as you can get the Samsung Galaxy S3 16GB (oddly, not even in question for import restrictions as of now,) if this is a factor at all it must be some sort of subconscious price discrimination because the numbers themselves match up.

Re:To ban or not to ban...

[CharlyFoxtrot]

some of them who interpreted the news coverage as an ad for Samsung, saw the "banned sales" headlines and rushed out to buy devices. Hey, if they are worth banning, they must be good right?

Truly an example of the intelligent and discerning Android customer.

(OK I admit it, this one is little troll-ish but come on.)

Re:To ban or not to ban...

[LynnwoodRooster]

But in the typical consumer's mind, a small 3.5" screen MUST be cheaper than the big 4.8" screen of the S3, thus Apple MUST have a higher profit on the unit - it shouldn't cost the same, the iPhone 4S should be cheaper.

Many factors to consider here...

[cynop]

The trial was only one of the factors to consider here. The overall growth of the android ecosystem should be accounted for. Also keep in mind that smartphone sales are surging overall ( http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/08/more-than-half-of-all-handsets-will-be-smartphones-in-2013/ ) so it makes sense for Samsung's phones to sell more.

It would help to see the recent sales figures of other notable android manufacturers like HTC and LG to decide if the exposure from the trial had a noticeable effect

Could that post be more biased?

[Anonymous Coward]

I may not know enough about patent law to argue one way about the quality of the jury verdict, but I can say that your statement regarding Samsung phones as "currently best smartphone in the market" is purely subjective (and in my opinion flat wrong).

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[jythie]

Yeah, but it is important to many geeks to believe that whatever they personally like is the objective best.. which is why you see so many rants about the inferiority of the competition or how people are only buying the other product because they are brainwashed or stupid or image conscious or any other number of reasons that assist in the speaker having to confront the idea that intelligent people can like different things.

Wow, run on sentence....

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[Nertskull]

I think the implication is to say the phone itself is best based on specs. I agree "best" in terms of which OS you like is subjective. But the physical specs of the phone currently are the best available. That will obviously change soon. But a 4 core 1.4ghz processor vs a 2 core 0.8ghz processor is "better" in terms of core specifications.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[Chibi Merrow]

Pick an objective measure where the Galaxy S3 is not one of, if not the best.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[jedidiah]

Newer hardware is likely faster and spiffier.

This is no great revelation.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[h4rr4r]

The launcher sucks.

Pentile screen.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[Chibi Merrow]

Saying the launcher sucks isn't objective, but I'm not qualified to quibble there as it's worlds better than the awful Blur launcher I had on my MB-300. :)

Pentile you might have a point, but I haven't seen what the big fuss is about personally... It still bigger and looks better than my wife's iPhone 4S.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[Nerdfest]

... and it's actually replaceable ... by a non-technical user, by simply installing an app.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[Protoslo]

Even on standby, using 4G you are lucky to get two days of life out of the battery...if you actually use it, you will have to charge more than once a day. Basically, it has performance like a laptop, and battery life like one too.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[redbeardcanada]

Walled gardenness.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[h4rr4r]

The 4S is nothing to judge against. Look at some of the 720p screens that are not pentile. The HTC rezound has a nice one.

My Galaxy Nexus has a pentile screen and while I love the phone I hate the pentile look.

Re:Could that post be more biased?

[david_thornley]

Pick a consumer product that is successfully sold only on the basis of specs that can be measured. (Actually, this works on a fairly small subset of the market, but not in general.)

Fairly sure it's because of the trial

[gentryx]

...and the coverage in the news. Here is a nice story on how people react on the verdict.

Re:Fairly sure it's because of the trial

[davewoods]

Nice. Thanks for the link.

Re:Fairly sure it's because of the trial

[BasilBrush]

Very imaginative.

Re:Fairly sure it's because of the trial

[Phoghat]

...and the coverage in the news. Here is a nice story on how people react on the verdict.

READ. MY. SIG.

Just bought mine

[Anonymous Coward]

I went and bought a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 even though it wasn't a part of the lawsuit or a ruling against the Samsung Galaxy Tab line. I had been scouting it out for a few months now. Even though I disagree with the ruling, I wanted to buy it before an increase in price due to licensing fees, in case Samsung decides to license the technologies that were borderline borrowed from Apple.

Unethical behavior

[zmooc]

Now that the trial has ended and everybody has had the chance to inform themselves what it was about, tech-savvy potential Apple customers looking to buy a high tech tablet flee to Samsung since they no longer want to be associated with the unethical behavior exhibited by Apple?

Re:Unethical behavior

[shutdown -p now]

I doubt this has much to do with "ethical behavior". More likely, quite a few people have suddenly found out that Apple is not the only choice for smartphones & tablets, and that its competitors are actually good enough that Apple is worried about them.

Oh man, I can't wait for the Apple Shinny!

[InvisibleClergy]

Is it gonna be a tablet? A phone? A prosthetic limb? The iShinny, the new iProsthetic iLimb from Apple.

Re:Oh man, I can't wait for the Apple Shinny!

[pnot]

I think it's going to be the iProduct.

Re:Oh man, I can't wait for the Apple Shinny!

[msauve]

Will Apple's new shinny be shiny?

Re:Oh man, I can't wait for the Apple Shinny!

[Bigby]

iShinny is too generic. It is iSun. And iProsthetic iLeg. They will sell the iProsthetic iArm a few years later with all kinds of patents because iArm is sooooooo much different than an iLeg.

Re:Oh man, I can't wait for the Apple Shinny!

[snobody]

A prosthetic limb? That seems appropriate considering that their products cost an arm and a leg.

Re:Oh man, I can't wait for the Apple Shinny!

[hazydave]

It's a great, wonderful, amazing replacement limb. Does everything your old limb did, twice as powerful, never gets tired, need a charge only once a day, and even charges your other iOS devices. Only problem -- Apple gets to decide what you're allowed to lift with the iArm, and where you're allowed to walk with the iLeg. But hey, it's such a great experience, in time you'll start to realize that Apple really does make better decisions about these things than you do.

Scarcity Drives Sales

[torkus]

Title says it all. How many people did you know bought a Wii because they "saw it in stock somewhere" and figured they should get it while they had the chance?

Apple's trying to slam down the banhammer on Samsung so of course it drives up perceived scarcity (or scarcity-to-be). Same reason every single sale is 'limited time, act now or miss out' and so on.

Also keep in mind Apple gave Samsung tons of free publicity. I'm comfortable saying that anyone who uses a cell phone knows what an iPhone is, but until now not as many people knew Samsung sells such 'obviously similiar' products. They sure do now. Oh, and they're cheaper? Wait...maybe I should run out and get one while I still can. People who follow tech trials are also plenty fed up with patent nonsense so heck, let's support the underdog. They tend to innovate better anyhow.

So really, I'm not surprised at all.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[Desler]

Most people buy their phones on contract with subsidized prices. In that case the price is pretty much identical between the iPhone and the comparable Samsung offering.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[booch]

Title says it all.

Then why did you continue writing 11 more sentences?

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[noh8rz8]

How are they cheaper? Apple has phones at $100 / 200 / 300 price points. This is pretty standard across the board.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[damien_kane]

Title says it all.

Then why did you continue writing 11 more sentences?

Probably so that no one will by what he says by virtue of scarcity of his opinion?
It ensures he has "true believers"

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[CharlyFoxtrot]

People who follow tech trials are also plenty fed up with patent nonsense so heck, let's support the underdog. They tend to innovate better anyhow.

Samsung ... the underdog ? This is a mega conglomerate that had a revenue of $247.5 billion in 2011 compared to Apple's $108.249 billion

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[Patch86]

Not true. You still pay for the full cost of the phone, even if it's as part of your monthly payments. Cheaper is cheaper whatever the payment method.

I've just checked the Carphone Warehouse website. Cheapest iPhone deal is £33 a month for 24 months. Cheapest Galaxy S III is £28 for 24 months. So that's £120 cheaper over the cost of the contract. Both are "free" up front.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[fermion]

I wonder how many of these are upgrades. There is some evidence to indicate that people are selling their used phones. It could be that people are simply trying to get the phone while the getting is good. One reason may be that they want to maximize the chances that they can get the latest Android. If the sales are not to new users of converts from iPhone, it really does not matter.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[Citizen of Earth]

This is a mega conglomerate

It's a hectogiga conglomerate.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop quoting bullshit prices,

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone/iphone4s

Thais is only with a 2 year lockin. If you want to buy an iPhone, click on the link above and the unlocked/contract-free versions.

$650, $750, $850 is your "pretty standard across the board"?

Now, Samsung Galaxy S III,

https://samsungdirect.bbymsolutions.com/detail/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-mobile-phone-pebble-blue-sprint-/1667?navCode=ZZMq4MHX3z

$699

So where is the $100 price point??? Oh yes, in fantasy lock-in land. I guess I can sell you a $400 car too, and $25,000 house.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[Belial6]

You are attributing far to much logic to the general public. Most people actually believe that they get a free phone every years.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[volmtech]

It's called profit margin. Samsung about 10%, Apple 25%, it's like you making $100,000 in a year and your more talented neighbor making $100,000 in five months.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[CharlyFoxtrot]

So Amazon would be the ultimate underdog since despite huge revenues they make relatively little profit ? That makes no sense. These are both huge companies, used to getting their way. There are no underdogs here.

Re:Scarcity Drives Sales

[volmtech]

Remember, "When elephants fight, the grass gets trampled." The best we can hope for is some elephant poop fertilizer.

What's a 'shinny' ?

[tekrat]

"Even with the approach of the launch of Apple's new shinny,..."

Is this some kind of iKnee replacement? It's a shin-bone that plays music and accesses Siri? I've never of this product.... Please advise.

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[oldmac31310]

Everybody knows it should be Apple's new iShinny. Jeez.

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[wierd_w]

Google should name their next Android release "Apple Pie."

Histrionics should ensue!

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[noh8rz8]

No can do, because the next release has to start with a k. I doubt they'll license Krispy Kreme.

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[MikeBabcock]

That would have to have been the first release ... or the twenty seventh perhaps.

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[strength_of_10_men]

Can't tell if that was an allusion to the Simpsons but it's oh-so-fitting.

Groundskeeper Willy: [gasps] Boy... you read my thoughts! You've got the Shinning.
Bart Simpson: You mean "Shining".
Groundskeeper Willy: [sotto voce] Shh! You want to get sued?

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[jc42]

Google should name their next Android release "Apple Pie."

Then anyone using the number pi would be infringing, right?

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[wierd_w]

Gotcha!

"Karamel Apple" then. :D

Re:What's a 'shinny' ?

[BlindBear]

In the present environment I think it would be a goer amongst the geeks and the clued up members of the public, but check first for any violations of usage of the word "pie" or "Pie". The word "apple" should be clear and the word "Apple" could be construed by some lawyers to be free advertising for an American based technology company.

apparently apple can ask for it to be added

[Chirs]

There is apparently some procedure whereby apple could ask for it to be added to the list. I assume there would be some sort of judgement required as to whether or not it is similar enough to any banned devices.

The Register says exact opposite

[Sooner Boomer]

On 30th August 2012 00:44 GMT, there was an article on The Register titled "Customers dumping Samsung phones in wake of Apple suit"

Apple CEO Tim Cook might be pleased with the verdict in his company's recent patent legislation against Samsung, but Samsung customers are definitely not, according to the market watchers at mobile phone trade-in firm Gazelle. "Consumers seem to be jumping ship," Anthony Scarsella, Gazelle's "chief gadget officer," told MarketWatch. "We expect this trend to continue, especially with this latest verdict." Scarsella says his company, which buys used mobile phones from consumers, has seen a 50 per cent increase in the number of customers looking to unload Samsung kit since Monday alone. The sudden upsurge in supply has led Gazelle to drop the prices it pays for Samsung mobiles by 10 per cent.

So which is it? Buying or dumping?

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[Colonel Korn]

On 30th August 2012 00:44 GMT, there was an article on The Register titled "Customers dumping Samsung phones in wake of Apple suit"

Apple CEO Tim Cook might be pleased with the verdict in his company's recent patent legislation against Samsung, but Samsung customers are definitely not, according to the market watchers at mobile phone trade-in firm Gazelle.

"Consumers seem to be jumping ship," Anthony Scarsella, Gazelle's "chief gadget officer," told MarketWatch. "We expect this trend to continue, especially with this latest verdict."

Scarsella says his company, which buys used mobile phones from consumers, has seen a 50 per cent increase in the number of customers looking to unload Samsung kit since Monday alone. The sudden upsurge in supply has led Gazelle to drop the prices it pays for Samsung mobiles by 10 per cent.

So which is it? Buying or dumping?

In the case you cite, it's just speculation by a non-expert backed up by data with an unreasonably small sample size.

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[Shatrat]

Also, consumers selling old samsung phones does not contradict consumers buying new samsung phones.
In fact, I would guess that many of those people bought a Galaxy S3 and then sold their Galaxy 1 or 2.

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[jbernardo]

That article in the Register is basically quoting a small reseller of used phones, which has found an excuse to try to pay less for Samsung kit. But the Reg lately will post anything that might get them visits, and if it is pro-apple even better.

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[R3d M3rcury]

Both?

Perhaps they're dumping their old Samsung phone so that they can buy something new. Or perhaps they believe they won't be able to legally resell the phone later, so they'd better act now.

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[steelfood]

I'd trust The Register as far as I can throw them, collectively. Forget the sensationalism, the spin, and the overall yellow hue that's all over all their articles. They often speculate, which not surprisingly ends up being incorrect nine times out of ten.

I don't trust the mainstream stuff completely either. But at least it's actual journalism instead of guesswork.

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[msauve]

So, they're dumping their used Samsungs. Who's to say they're not doing so just the get a newer Samsung sooner?

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[CharlyFoxtrot]

In the case you cite, it's just speculation by a non-expert backed up by data with an unreasonably small sample size.

ALL these numbers are suspect including the ones cited by Forbes. These "tech analysts" are notoriously unreliable, and you can find one willing to support any argument you want to make.

Re:The Register says exact opposite

[colsandurz45]

The author of the register article also doesn't seem to know the difference between legislation and litigation.

Unlikely people are afraid of an injunction

[atlasdropperofworlds]

> Or is it a rush to buy the currently best smartphone in the market in case there is an injunction on its sale in the US any time soon?

No. The S3 is not listed as one of the phones and injunction is going against. It's the S, and S2 variants. The S3, Nexus. and others are in the clear.

Re:Unlikely people are afraid of an injunction

[Anonymous Coward]

No. The S3 is not listed as one of the phones and injunction is going against. It's the S, and S2 variants. The S3, Nexus. and others are in the clear.

And how many people know that? How many people think that all Samsung phones are about to be banned?

Re:Unlikely people are afraid of an injunction

[shutdown -p now]

Nexus is involved in the next Apple v. Samsung lawsuit in the pipeline, and I believe S3 is, as well. Given where the current one has ended up, it's certainly a reasonable assumption that the next one won't go any better for Sammy. If that's the case, it makes sense to not wait until some preliminary injunction would result in a ban.

Re:Unlikely people are afraid of an injunction

[Nethemas the Great]

Tell that to the people who think "the Cloud" is affected by weather.

Re:Unlikely people are afraid of an injunction

[hazydave]

I wouldn't say that. The Nexus, certainly, doesn't have any of the "Touch Wizzz" stuff on it. That's the very blatant "let's copy Apple" layer that I probably would have nailed Samsung on, if I had felt those design patents held up. None of those rounded-square icons are in stock Android. No scroll bounce-back. Much less for Apple to complain about, but sure, they'd be silly not to try to continue any momentum from the first trial onto devices that are still shipping.

The Nexus IS black, but only on the front -- grey on the back. Apple has not yet demonstrated the technology of delivering two different colors on the same device -- they're either black or white (in fact, they have two different design patents, one for black, one for white, so clearly, that matters), with some bare metal or metal-colored bits. No bare metal on the Nexus. Curved screen, Apple's is flat. Curved back, Apple's is flat. No big ugly button on the front. It doesn't look like an iPhone, it looks like the thing that comes to replace the iPhone.

Re:Unlikely people are afraid of an injunction

[shutdown -p now]

Forget about the design patents. The real meat are the software patents.

For example, slide to unlock is there. Google claims it doesn't infringe, Apple disagrees.

Overscroll bounce - yes, there's no bounce per se, but there's a visual indication. Apple seems to have successfully argued that it's covered by their patent in the Korean court.

Then there are those double tap to zoom and pinch to zoom things.

And Google already had to remove unified (local/web) search in 4.1 to avoid infringing the corresponding Apple patent.

People are just noticing the difference

[na1led]

Because the Samsung Galaxy S3 phone has been on the front-line news so much, people finally took a good look at it, and realized it's superiority over the iPhone-Toy.

Samsung's shipping phones from itself to itself..

[RocketRabbit]

Probably just playing the same game they play with tablet sales numbers over there at Samsung. They won't tell us how many phones actually sell (unlike Apple) but they claim increased shipments.

How much do you want to bet that Trip is quarterbacking for Samsung?

Fallacy

[Celarent Darii]

This is a classic example of the 'post-hoc' ergo 'propter-hoc' fallacy.

The fact that the trial was against Samsung really has very little to do with how many units they sold. People buy stuff mostly because it responds to a (perceived) need, not because some judge in California thinks they stole something from Apple.

If anything it only gave them free advertising, but that doesn't necessarily lead to sales, especially since the advertising is somewhat negative.

Re:Fallacy

[Nethemas the Great]

This is a classic case of someone with a very modest education--but knows some Latin buzz phrases--trying to reach beyond their resources in an attempt to position themselves as superior.

Re:Fallacy

[DeadCatX2]

People buy stuff mostly because it responds to a (perceived) need

So when the incandescent bulb was "banned", did people suddenly need a lot of them?

not because some judge in California thinks they stole something from Apple

Wow, Judge Koh said/thought that? I could have swore that only the jury had provided their verdict so far...

Re:Fallacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you feel inferior because of something you didn't understand and had to look up, but I think GP's post is valid...
 
Just fucking with you :) Or am I?
 
I wish it was Friday.

Re:Fallacy

[matty619]

Replace "Latin buzz phrases" with "buzz phrases" and you've pretty much summed up ~95% of Slashdot comments.

Re:Fallacy

[Celarent Darii]

So when the incandescent bulb was "banned", did people suddenly need a lot of them?

For different definitions of need, yes. Needs are not just clothing and shelter, but also entertainment, allaying of fears, and whatever fulfills in somewhat a human want. Your example of incandescent bulbs is just simple supply and demand - bulbs need to be replaced, but removing an option that is cheaper suddenly makes that option more attractive or "necessary".

As for the verdict, you are right that the Jury only has decided. The judge has still to confirm it, though many commentators say that it would be exceptional if the judge overturned their verdict. So in a sense "qui tacet, consentit"'.

Re:Fallacy

[DeadCatX2]

removing an option that is cheaper suddenly makes that option more attractive or "necessary".

Kinda like banning the cheaper Samsung phones might suddenly make that option more attractive or "necessary"?

The judge has still to confirm it, though many commentators say that it would be exceptional if the judge overturned their verdict

Given the interviews with the foreman which suggest they failed to understand the instructions regarding 1) not punishing Samsung and 2) prior art, this should be interesting.

(btw, the tag you were looking for is "blockquote")

Re:Fallacy

[Celarent Darii]

And so would an attack 'ad hominem' be proof of a finer education?

Re:Fallacy

[SourceFrog]

I can't tell what's sadder, the fact that you called the name of a logical fallacy a "buzz phrase"

Attacking logical fallacies by calling them things like "buzz phrases" seems to be a pattern on slashdot lately, I've seen almost the exact same attack from other users recently, virtually the same words, in other contexts. At first I thought it was just random stupidity, but now I'm starting to think it might be more systematic somehow. I mean, looking at the other comments by 'Nethemas the Great', he seems perfectly capable of Googling what 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' means, and it only takes a few seconds. He also appears smart enough to understand what a logical fallacy is. This must mean that his attacking of logical fallacies is based on malicious intent, rather than ignorance.

Apple's Response

[theEnguneer]

According to Apple, this phenomenon is due to the fact that shoppers are actually trying to buy Apple products, but are mistaking Samsung products for them.

Re:Apple's Response

[firesyde424]

I think the parent is being sarcastic, but I seem to remember something very close to that being stated by Apple during the trial. It baffled me when I heard it. Apparently, Samsung has so closely copied some of Apple's devices that people can go into a store looking for an Apple product, walk out of the store with a product that instead of the distinctive Apple logo, has the word "Samsung" on it, and think they have purchased an iDevice.

Re:Apple's Response

[Richy_T]

To be fair, they are Apple users. Or at least would be if they could.

Remember, folks

[ThatsNotPudding]

Just like (make-believe) gun bans threatened in the wake of certain political parties,

Apple phones don't kill people, SAMSUNG PHONES DO.

Re:Remember, folks

[PeanutButterBreath]

Just like (make-believe) gun bans threatened in the wake of certain political parties,

Apple phones don't kill people, SAMSUNG PHONES DO.

With Apple innovations.

maybe the public is more educated

[Dan667]

I had a choice to buy Android or iphone and bought iphone. If I had it to do over again I would buy Android and my next phone will more than likely be Android.

Other sites report the exect opposite

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Marketwatch sees a completely different phenomenon :

"While many experts predict Apple Inc.’s court victory over Samsung could shake up the wireless industry over the long term, it’s already having an impact on one key area: the resale market.

Since the $1.05 billion verdict Friday — which found that Samsung infringed on six Apple AAPL -1.04% patents — customers of Samsung have been dumping their Android products on at least one major resale site. Gazelle.com reports a 50% increase in Samsung smartphones over the past three days, which has led to a 10% drop in prices for those devices"

Re:Other sites report the exect opposite

[mtempsch]

Marketwatch sees a completely different phenomenon :

Since the $1.05 billion verdict Friday — which found that Samsung infringed on six Apple AAPL -1.04% patents — customers of Samsung have been dumping their Android products on at least one major resale site. Gazelle.com reports a 50% increase in Samsung smartphones over the past three days, which has led to a 10% drop in prices for those devices"

And that's extrapolating wildly outside the data that they have, drawing conclusions they have no real base for, as they have no idea what their sellers bought instead. Couldn't it possibly be newer, potentially under risk of being banned, Samsung gear?

Re:Other sites report the exect opposite

[Richy_T]

What are people buying new Samsung devices going to do with their old Samsung devices?

Re:Other sites report the exect opposite

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Possibly. In the end it's all just speculation. Could be just a marketing push that was scheduled to precede the expected new iPhone launch for example. We'll not know until some time has passed and we get quarterly figures (and even then.)

Re:Other sites report the exect opposite

[Nemyst]

Perhaps they're simply dumping hardware that could be affected by a ban before the ban happens? I doubt they'd have the ability to resell banned hardware as easily.

Whatever the case, however, this doesn't imply that they're all moving over to Apple. It could be that they're upgrading to the newest Samsung device, another Android device, iOS, or other possibilities.

Re:Other sites report the exect opposite

[hazydave]

The increase of old Samsung products in the used market says absolutely nothing about what they're being replaced with. In short, it's entirely consistent with this article that a rise in sales of new Samsung products could very easily be accompanied by a rise in sales of old Samsung products to used-device buyers. In short, this isn't a completely different phenomena, it may be the very same effect.

Schadenfreude

[mapkinase]

This side-effect should enter as an example in Wikipedia page for Schadenfreude

Spelling fun - unintended meanings

[zooblethorpe]

There are quite a number of people out there that would sooner die then choose Apple because of their shiny retarded walled garden approach to computing.

This is the first time I've ever heard of Apple being so good that even the deceased prefer Apple products. :-P

I think you meant than (comparative: "A is bigger than B") rather than then (adverbial: "Alice ate, then met Bob").

</pedantic>

Increased exposure

[ieatcookies]

Could it be simply from increased exposure of the devices to the world.. Seems easy enough for all these different Android handsets to get lost in the crowd as there are so many of them.

Re:Increased exposure

[PortHaven]

Nope, co-worker just went out and bought an SIII. Figured he better do it while he still can. He's a seasoned gadget geek/developer. Makes me envious: Has the banned Galaxy tablet, big Kindle DX, SIII, even has an Apple Newton (which is saying something)

Re:Increased exposure

[ieatcookies]

Well, that anecdote must make it so..

Human Nature

[Comboman]

Knowing something might suddenly become unavailable seems to make it more attractive to many people. Look at the dramatic rise in gun sales in 2008 after Obama was elected based on unfounded fears that he would push for stricter gun control laws.

I had a Galaxy SII for sale...

[dafthero]

The old craigslist posting I had for my GSII had gotten me a few e-mails after the verdict. The cheap bastards STILL tried to lowball me though.

Aside from the obvious "new shiny" stuff

[Loopy]

The biggest reason is probably the basic economics of the suit. Sure, the GS3 might not end up included in the suit eventually but if they have to pay out a billion+ and are restricted in sales of other models and in where they can sell, it will probably drive prices up on every other Samsung model. This may happen if for no other reason than people like Samsung phones and were just waiting for a good excuse to buy one (especially the most recent full-featured model).

Re:Aside from the obvious "new shiny" stuff

[Citizen of Earth]

On the other hand, the prices of electronics have been known to go down over time.

No, The Apple Effect

[Citizen of Earth]

Five years from now, people will be calling this and subsequent phenomena "The Apple Effect". "Their stuff is just as good as ours and costs half as much!" Best billion dollars ever spent on advertising.

Apple endorsed them

[viperidaenz]

Apple spend the whole trial saying how much the Samsung devices are "blatant copies" of the iDevices. So if they're effectively the same thing but are cheaper or have a bigger amoled screen, a faster processor or more memory, why would you buy an iPhone if the Samsung equivalent is more cost effective?

Re:Apple endorsed them

[erroneus]

They aren't cheaper.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone/iphone4s

This shows the unlocked (unsubsidized) 16GB phone for about the same as the i9300 (Galaxy S3 carrier-unbranded and unlocked) with 16GB.

Not cheaper... "more free."

Sales

[WankerWeasel]

There have been other reports that sales have dropped too. Which one is correct?

Re:Walled garden

[davewoods]

That is precisely the only thing I like about Apple products...

The downright lack of viruses/malicious programs. Well, that, and the utter simplicity of the system, aiding those who are less than savvy.

that horse has already left the barn

[slashmydots]

so they are being overcharged

Oh yeah, NOW is when they'd realize that. Not when every news organization on the planet reported 23 billion in liquid cash reserves for Apple or when every news organization in the universe reported on the conditions at Apple's Foxconn plants. I think people knew they were getting utterly price-screwed by Apple before the Samsung trial! You would think that Apple is only riding on dedicated Apple fanboys who are in denial and think it costs $450 to make an iPhone but apparently they're still getting other customers than that too...for now.

I'm surprised at who is now making fun of Apple

[FauxReal]

There's been a new comedic meme emerging, "Anything you do might get you sued by Apple." and people are starting to run with it. Maybe the 1 Billion dollar verdict sounds ridiculous to people who's assets are measured in thousands?

Non-technophile and iphone owning friends of mine are posting memegenerator images or making silly comments about the lawsuit on Facebook. I'm seeing the same stuff from random people on sites like imgur and tumblr. Samsung also just unveiled a new Galaxy mirrorless interchangeable lens (AKA 4/3s AKA 3rd gen) android powered digital camera that some people are excited about.

Personally, I'm not sure on what the reason is but I am surprised at how many people aren't cheering for Apple in this one.

Underhanded code competition ?

[Vapula]

---quote---
That's ironic, because I actually like the walled garden. On the consumer side I don't have to worry about viruses or spyware or other garbage android has been known for, and on the developer side I rest easy knowing most people are not stealing my apps. It's a win-win.
---end quote---

Well, this would be great if it were true... But you have repeatedly application that manage to escape the Apple Filter. And I don't talk about the system bugs like the one that resulted in a "jailbreakme.com" web page to jailbreak the iPhone.

Have a look at the underhanded code contest and you'll see that it may be quie easy to sneak some malware in the Apple Walled Garden...

So, relying on a walled garder for system security is clearly insane and stupid... It's nothing but snake oil...

Re:Walled garden

[Anguirel]

My problem with iProducts is that iTunes is malware, as far as I'm concerned, and Apple expects you to do just about everything through iTunes.

I've found ways around it, eventually, but doing something as simple as importing e-books I'd bought well before the iPhone existed took multiple hours to figure out (for a device marketed as "simple to use, UI-is-everything, it just works"). I tried to add them as "Books" to the device. Nope. Apparently that only applies to the iBooks program, so it has to be in the Apple format already. I tried drag-and-drop. Nope. I looked for other ways to get them onto the device within iTunes and didn't see anything obvious. I ended up using Calibre, a third-party program, to import the books to Stanza. And then discovered that if I wanted to test out a competing e-Book reader app, I need to import the books again, because there's absolutely no data sharing between apps. That's also what clued me in to how to add things in iTunes -- you need to have the app installed first, and import it straight to a specific app.

If you're willing to do everything inside the Walled Garden, sure it works. As soon as you want to step outside, even for data, it's not quite so easy, and can often be quite a hassle.

Re:Walled garden

[Mike_EE_U_of_I]

Yeah, I have to admit that Itunes does really stink up the place. I am regularly astonished at how stupid some of the things it does are.

Poor sod.

[jotaeleemeese]

The free market is independent of the set of rules in which it operates.

Have you heard about black markets? They are entirely illegal but operate mostly as ideal free ones.

Crappy Data for an article.

[phriedom]

The guy went to 16 stores, probably in one city and got some anecdotes from salespeople. Really? And we're supposed to conclude that lots of people who would not have otherwise bought a Samsung went out and bought one because of the trial? Okay, well I can play that game too. I had a lot of trouble finding a case in stock for my Galaxy S3, therefore I conclude that the S3 is a very popular phone that outsold what case makers predicted. It is a runaway hit! I don't need to bother with actual sales data because I have an anecdote. Facts are not needed when I have a good story.

My advice to Apple

[GrahamCox]

Pare down your legal department to a skeleton staff of just enough to handle the day-to-day needs of a company, and turn the budget over to the developers. You're in a hole. Stop digging. The way to win hearts and minds and customers is to stop being such an arrogant prick of a company and make stuff people want. The whole Mac vs Windows 95 thing is starting to unfold all over again. Have you learned nothing? I'm an Apple developer and have been for a long time (note to readers: this in no way equates with "fanboy". It's my living). Even I'm bored to the back teeth with this case and don't see it doing anything but harm. So, Samsung copied you. Boo hoo. Make something better and people will buy it.

Meh

[kaffiene]

What I find most disturbing in all of this is the rabid brand loyalty (brainwashing?) on display. I don't get the apple/iPhone fans with their "mine is still better" and "Samsung is just junk" responses - when Samsung supplies the hardware for the iPhone in the first place!

I don't own a smartphone nor any Samsung or Apple computers. I don't care about either of these companies. But I do care about the tech world and I'm very disturbed to see mega corps using patents as a cudgel to prevent competition. Apple's approach is antithetical to a free market and to technological innovation. I find it extremely distasteful and if I ever did want to get a smartphone, this recent episode would be enough to put me off Apple. I like companies that compete by being the best, not by having the most lawyers.

Re:Walled garden

[cinky]

I feel your pain :). We got an iPad 2 for our office for development purposes. Our art director was thrilled and wouldn't let go of it. Then my other colleague started trying out games and was thrilled. Then it was finally my turn. I decided I will read one ebook I had for some time. So I approached this "problem" as I would on android - I dropped the ebook on my dropbox and installed dropbox on the iPad, I logged in and... found out I can not just download the files into the iPad... I started googling around on how to achieve this, saw the word "iTunes" in all the links on the first page... I returned the iPad to our art director and apart from testing I don't use it at all...

Re:Walled garden

[Karlt1]

"My problem with iProducts is that iTunes is malware, as far as I'm concerned, and Apple expects you to do just about everything through iTunes."

I'm assuming you're talking about the desktop software and not the store, if that's the case....

1. I listen to music via Rhapsody, Pandora
2. I buy e-books via Amazon and read them with the Kindle app
3. I stream movies to my devices via Plex, Netflix, Amazon Instant, Crackle, etc.
4. I backup my phone via iCloud
5. I upgrade my phone over Wifi
6. I buy apps on the phone
7. I buy music on my phone.

"I've found ways around it, eventually, but doing something as simple as importing e-books I'd bought well before the iPhone existed took multiple hours to figure out"

That says more about you, than the phone...easiest way is to e-mail it to yourself, use DropBox, or use iTunes.

" Nope. Apparently that only applies to the iBooks program, so it has to be in the Apple format already. I"

iBooks supports the ePub format and PDFs

" That's also what clued me in to how to add things in iTunes -- you need to have the app installed first, and import it straight to a specific app."

Or email it to yourself.....

Re:Walled garden

[hazydave]

As soon as you want to step outside, even for data, it's not quite so easy, and can often be quite a hassle.

Yup. For example... I'm working on a PC, it's got a network issue, can't connect. Needs to fetch me a new driver from the internet. And hey, I have this great thing called a SmartPhone, which is really a pocket computer with persistent network connection. I'll just grab that driver, and... whoa! Easy in Android, not allowed in iOS, at least by default -- it'll only download things it understands (perhaps some 3rd party tools make this work better, don't know about that).

Some folks just want freedom. It may not matter to others. True freedom is like handing a person a scalpel rather than a plastic table knife -- yes, you can cut yourself with it. A few out there may be better off with out it. But most of us, nope -- we want the option to exercise that freedom in any way possible, even if we ultimately don't do things substantially different on Android than iOS on a daily basis.

But not profits

[pubwvj]

One of the things that Apple detractors tend to miss is that Apple may sell fewer units but they make a lot more profit per unit. So Samsung sells a lot of low end units, making next to no profit. Big deal. It's like the pork industry. The big pig players sell 10,000 pigs a month and lose $1/pig. The small operators sell 100 pigs a month and make $25 per pig. The small operators are the winners in that game. Likewise the electronics manufacturers trying to dump large numbers of units a razor thin or even negative margins are not making it. Samsung should stick with what it does well. Competing with Apple isn't one of those things.

Re:Walled garden

[Anguirel]

I'm assuming you're talking about the desktop software and not the store, if that's the case....

Yes, the software, the one you were previously required to use (wifi updates is a recent thing... and still technically requires iTunes to be on the network as well).

1. I listen to music via Rhapsody, Pandora

Pandora is a streaming service, so that's fine as long as you have an internet connection (which I usually don't when I'm bothering to use my iPad)... but how did you get your music into Rhapsody (I don't know that particular app, so this is a serious question)?

2. I buy e-books via Amazon and read them with the Kindle app

Valid enough if you get all you e-books there, but what if you wanted to read them in a different app (e.g. Stanza)? Additionally, purchasing via Amazon to the Kindle App is within the Walled Garden style -- you're using an app to obtain directly from a specific in-app source. What if you bought them on your own, outside of the device (e.g. Drive-Thru RPG/Comics), or had them from an older device in a format incompatible with Kindle or iBooks?

3. I stream movies to my devices via Plex, Netflix, Amazon Instant, Crackle, etc.

Again, streaming is fine if you have an internet connection for it. And, technically, all of that is staying inside the walled garden, using the app to obtain things for you directly, not use data you already have from another source on the device.

4. I backup my phone via iCloud
5. I upgrade my phone over Wifi
6. I buy apps on the phone
7. I buy music on my phone.

All staying inside the walled garden, which I've said works fine.

That says more about you, than the phone...easiest way is to e-mail it to yourself, use DropBox, or use iTunes.

Sending via e-mail -- fails in so many ways (large files, large numbers of files, still already need the app installed to use though at least you could have them and pick the app later). I will also note that I didn't even have e-mail set up at the time (it was my first time using the iPad I'd won), and I didn't bother adding it until much later as it didn't have 3G (so no permanent data source) and generally when I was in range of wifi, I was also in range of a normal computer to use or I could use my phone instead. DropBox -- why should I need to use an external file storage system when the device is directly connected to the computer where the files are? Sure, it would have worked if I was already using DropBox, I suppose, but this is more of an example of exactly what I'm saying: the default Apple-given method is so bad you'd want to go find a different one. iTunes -- yeah, and how well did that work out? That was the entire point of my story, it was a non-obvious methodology. How dare I think it'd be as easy as, say, dragging files onto the device's storage and accessing them there?

" Nope. Apparently that only applies to the iBooks program, so it has to be in the Apple format already. I"

iBooks supports the ePub format and PDFs

You know there's a lot of other formats, right?