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Torvalds Uses Profanity To Lambaste Romney Remarks
netbuzz writes "Last night Linux creator Linus Torvalds took to his Google+ page and called Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney 'a f***ing moron.' Torvalds' stated reason? Romney's much-ridiculed suggestion that air passengers would be safer in emergencies if aircraft windows could be opened (a suggestion which some, including Snopes.com, have taken as a joke). Torvalds also recently called Mormonism, Romney's religion, 'bats**t crazy.' Is this just Linus being Linus? Or does such outspokenness on non-technical matters reflect poorly on the Linux community that Torvalds leads?"
eom
Since Linus is speaking honestly, he makes the entire community look good.
"If you're not passionate about your operating system, you're married to the wrong one."
I had no clue in Romney's tone or anything else he was joking.
For those having issues understanding the summary, here's the plain text:
'a f***ing moron' = ' a fucking moron'
'bats**t crazy' = 'batshit crazy'
Hope this helps.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Would be nice if the summary mentioned that Linus actually apologized the next day. But I think Linus' original assessment was correct, never mind whether Romney was joking or not.
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
"does such outspokenness on non-technical matters reflect poorly on the Linux community that Torvalds leads?"
Every member of the Linux community checks to see what Linus is wearing before getting dressed in the morning, right? No? Then why are you asking such an apparently stupid question?
Bask in it, motherfuckers.
he's not a leader, he's a coder, bug difference
and if their is one thing the OS community is, it's grassroots, no leader needed
People should point out the [epmoror|candidates] lack of clothing.
Linus is entitled to his opinions no matter how correct they are. However, I would go further and say that the two party system is largely staffed by fucking corrupt morons, and that if you think they are different you are batshit crazy. The two parties are just two arms of the *same machine*. Thank you.
Or are the statements simply great and accurate?
I'm not saying they are or aren't, but this option was conspicuously absent from the options listed for how readers are allowed to feel about it (which were "should this be ignored, or does it suck").
Just sayin'.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
EOM
I admire Linus for daring to speak his mind, in the language he does speak his mind, as a person of public interest (or how you call it). More people should do that, it's honest and you quickly learn where you stand, not only after interpreting the words this or that way and weighing the options.
this sig is useless
The problem is that the reporter that originally covered this (New York Times's Ashley Parker) has stated that Romney said it in the form of a joke and was not being serious. Seems like not being a moron is a fine line even for Linux creators.
Ashley’s response to the question:
The Los Angeles Times story that relayed Romney’s airplane remark to the world was based off a pool report written by the New York Times‘s Ashley Parker. When we asked Parker this morning whether it seemed as if Romney made the mark in jest, she left no doubt. “Romney was joking,” she e-mailed. Parker told us that while the pool report didn’t explicitly indicate that Romney was joking, it was self-evident that he was. ”The pool report provided the full transcript of his comments on Ann’s plane scare,” she said, “and it was clear from the context that he was not being serious.”
You don't need "expertise" in religion (whatever that means) to know that religions are `the stupid virus`, and that Mormonism in particular is really fucking stupid.
Seriously, if I started a religion today and said that you have to hit your hand with a hammer every morning, does it make hitting your hand with a hammer not stupid? If not, what test have these other, stupid, religions passed which makes them not-stupid but my one stupid?
What a loaded question. "Does it reflect badly and cause of loss of reputation", what... that someone calls a batshit crazy religion batshit crazy? Didn't hurt Mark Twain's reputation much.
http://www.salamandersociety.com/marktwain/
So I guess the answer is no.
I had no clue in Romney's tone or anything else he was joking.
It was obvious from his tone in the video (and from body language, and from his laughing while saying it) he was joking. The reporter who was actually there said he was joking. No rational person on earth thinks airplane windows should roll down.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I do agree with him in this sense: you shouldn't need to censor your personal thoughts just for political correctness. Or even "professionalism", as TFA asks for. Even if you're someone of popularity. It shouldn't reflect at all on the Linux community, in the same way Reiser FS didn't become complete shit after Hans' better judgement slipped away from him.
Could he have used more mature words? Sure. But does anyone really care?
Some points:
1. All religion is bats**t crazy. Mormonism is just bats**t crazy with nuts on top.
2. Linus is probably one of the most important figures in the technology industry during the last 20 years or so. Because of that he is a public figure, so like Romney his offhand statements are bound to be criticized, analyzed, etc. He's much less of a public figure than most politicians so he probably isn't used to this as much, but I guess he'll have to. However, he's not a politician, he's a technical leader, so I think people *should* lay off analyzing such comments.
3. Linus is known for speaking his mind and being somewhat harsh. I don't think Linux would have happened otherwise. However, compared to RMS, Linus is a real gentleman.
Allowing aircraft windows to be opened is recipe for disaster, pressure and whatnot.
I've opened the window on a plane. I've even opened the door on a plane. If you are at a low enough altitude, it doesn't matter. Of course, I was on a plane that probably wouldn't make it to an altitude that is unsafe, but it was an aircraft and opening them was not a recipe for disaster. The damn thing had air vents!
I don't ask Romney to fix kernel bugs just as I don't look to Linux for political advice. Both should stick to what they know.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
It is not unusual for emergency exit doors over wings to have windows in them. It is not unusual for normal boarding doors to have windows in them. There is nothing in engineering or science that precludes the idea of an airliner with pressure-rated window-doors that have an arm-able open for passengers. The only thing preventing aircraft designers from doing this is expense and weight. There's no reason it couldn't be done, just like there's no reason airbags couldn't be installed to prevent passenger injuries in crashes. At some point you make engineering tradeoffs. Romney isn't crazy for suggesting this. But an airplane manufacturer might be crazy to build one.
I swear they give me mod points to shut me up.
It's no more crazy than any other religion. Once you cross the magic man in the sky line, the other differences are trivial.
This is the Official Statement of the Open Source Community: The Open Source community is amorphous, and follows no leader. Thus, nobody is capable of making an Official Statement for the Open Source Community. This has been an Official Statement of the Open Source Comunity.
Bruce Perens.
Well, there's no arrogance like that of an uninformed nerd. As a type-rated pilot (turboprops), I can tell you even pressurized planes do have windows, and partially for this purpose.
What does Romney know about political advice?
And then apologizes the next day because the idiot on MSNBC got it wrong.
And we wonder why politicians never speak their minds about anything under any circumstances.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Mr. Romney himself has said: "It's a terrible course for America to stand in apology for its values." Thus, no doubt he would condemn Mr. Torvalds apology as "appeasing our enemies".
Bruce Perens.
I don't hear Bill Nye being a pussy and apologizing for calling it like it is.
He called a sitting US Congressman a "fucking idiot" for his pseudo-scientific beliefs and followers of creationism "fucking retarded".
Run for President, Bill. We need you.
I don't ask Romney to fix kernel bugs just as I don't look to Linux for political advice. Both should stick to what they know.
You imply that Romney is a source for political advice. The current (supposedly left-leaning but maybe not) polls speak otherwise.
So ... if you have anything to tell Romney, just say it the way you like it.
But if Romney is a Democrat, you sure ain't gonna use colorful descriptions such as "batshit crazy" or "fucking moron", or you will be chastised as "hateful" and whatever you say will be deemed as "hatespeech".
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Funny how conservatives are just like liberals in that way. Get off your high horse. Your herd sucks just as much as theirs.
In my experience, people who criticize Mormonism and call it "batshit insane" don't know anything about it other than "Magic Underwear! Har har har!" and the other tripe they've seen on TV. Nor do they actually know any Mormons. They don't know a thing about the history, the reasons why they do, or don't do, certain things.
It's pretty obnoxious. Mormons are good people - they have different values and traditions than a lot of others, and some of them are certainly weird from an outsider's perspective, but they're good people. You don't see Mormons blowing up buildings. They're more likely to be seen helping needy people - and not making a big deal out of it.
I'd rather live next to a dozen Mormon families than be surrounded by "trollololol spageti monster har har arent i funy" types.
And no, not those fringe cults that bonk 12 year old girls say they're Mormon - because they're not.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for daring to defend a Mormon though, because this is Slashdot and FSM forbid I actually, you know, say anything GOOD about religious people...
Love sees no species.
Hopefully they'll release Romney's source code.
The Snopes article says Romney was perhaps joking though it isn't definitive.
The irony is palpable. Romney's camp is accusing his opponents of misquoting him, but the centerpiece of Romney's campaign against Obama is a misquote of Obama saying "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" where they cut out the first part so it says "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" - something very different.
Romney's camp can't have it both ways: If they want to run on the Obama misquote then how about they accept Romney doesn't understand why aircraft windows don't open.
And as usual, the real issues remain pushed to the sideline as too hard for an electorate who don't have an attention span that lasts long than a soundbite.
Politics, in the broader sense is the domain of everyone, not just the professional liars we call 'politicians.' Everyone has a right to have an opinion and to give input into the process of maintaining society. Linus has as much right to call Romney a fucking moron as Romney has to express the opinion that 47% of Americans are freeloaders.
As for using words that some people find offensive, they are just sounds - combinations of phonemes. There are few adjectives better than 'fucking' for expressing disgust and disrespect.
Seems Romney knows about the polls: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByJAC-sfXwumZzI2bVlON2VTMnFyYVZZSnpDYnNyQQ/edit?pli=1
Achille Talon
Hop!
https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/TTeQKFPrCQU?hl=en
o/~ Join us now and share the software
I don't ask Romney to fix kernel bugs just as I don't look to Linux for political advice. Both should stick to what they know.
The issue is that the comments come from Linus' personal G+ page. If they should "stick to what they know", then you're implying censorship. Fuck that, and fuck you for implying it.
If this was Brazil, he'd be in jail for mocking politicians.
We had only a couple of days, a paper outlawing 'language abuse' in the EU as an anti-terror move. Requiring filtering, automatic language detection, crimes for saying things. Torvalds should be glad he is free to call Mitt Romney bat shit crazy, and I for one will defend his right to say it.
http://www.edri.org/files/cleanIT_sept2012.pdf
Read it, and before anyone says it was just a discussion document, it's not, it's a concrete set of action points in a secret document to which the UK police have already committed themselves.
You misspelled Mormon...
... We're considering him for a president. I'd rather debate on his policy, record, etc. And I'm not claiming to agree with all of it or think highly of him on these merits, but this is the domain we need to be in, not the "batshit crazy." ...
Romney is the candidate for everyone. No matter what your position is on anything, he has held that position at one time or another..
Or fucking [a] mor[m]on, i.e. just pointing out that Romney has a healthy sexual relationships with his wife, who is also a mormon. SImple mistake.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
>(a suggestion which some, including Snopes.com, have taken as a joke)
Snopes quotes The Blaze.
The Blaze is hardly unbiased. It is the mouthpiece of Glenn Beck. If The Blaze announced that there would be a full moon in the next month or that the sun would rise in the morning, I would check astronomical tables (or use Stellarium) to make sure.
--
BMO
Way back yonder when I was a kid, me mum, father, the pomeranian and I were flying a Beechcraft Bonanza back from Miami in a weak hurricane. They were up front and I was in the back seat. For some reason or another I ended up holding the dog. As a kid, I had a tendency to fiddle with things, sometimes without regard to what they were. I had been fiddling with the window latch for a while, when suddenly, it actually opened. I completely froze, shocked and confused. The dog, with its sensitive ears began wailing horribly. My father, who was prone to anger, began yelling terribly too. A chorus of woe began as I sat there frozen with fright and guilt. My mum, the calmer of the bunch (the dog was a bit hyper too) began lurching toward me to close the window. Until she eventually succeeded in her efforts, the sound of the wind and screeching dog and yelling father went on for what seemed a bitter long time. I think even my mum began shrieking at my father before things were sorted out. It was a mess and I'd have a sore ass for it later.
Moral of the story? Opening windows during low-altitude flights can be interesting, but I'd rather it have been Linux.
Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
The airplane you opened that window in was not pressurized. Airplanes that fly over 12,500 feet must have pressurized cabins, or supplemental oxygen from a breathing mask. The lack of air pressure makes it difficult or impossible to receive oxygen in non pressurized cabins. Opening a windows or a door at altitude while the cabin is pressured would be very bad, and dangerous.
Flying small airplanes or helicopters at low altitude with open doors, windows or doors removed is not a problem at all. I do it all the time.
Mythbusters did an episode where they tested pressurized cabin breaches, and it wasn't as catastrophic as I expected, but it would definitely cause an early landing.
Bollocks. Everybody should speak about politics if they feel like it, democracy works better that way.
Maybe the motherf***cker is just telling it like it is? I mean, yes, most religions are batsh*t crazy and in America, anything except Catholic, Protestant, or a direct, Jesus-wrote that sh*t his-self, fer sure, is just not going to fly.
Everyone can plainly see that everyone else's religion is just a bunch of hooey.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I've opened the window on a plane.
You've opened the window on a PRIVATE plane, and at low altitude. Or in some Eastern European budget crackpot "airline"; You CANNOT open the window on a modern commercial US airliner. Even so, having just watched the Romney gaff, a few comments. It doesn't look to me like Romney is joking, on the other hand, it doesn't look like a studious, contemplative comment either. Romney, whatever he is, is not a guy who needs to be aware of how windows on a modern airliner work. Ok, he's stupid, I get that. But this isn't an indicator of how stupid he is. Its an indicator of how careless he is about everyday crap, just like 90% of the public. He doesn't really need to know precisiely how airliner windows work, so he doesn't. Ask him anything about money and I bet he could tell you a few things that Obama couldn't. Torvalds is out of line here.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
As an atheist I have to disagree with you. Mormonism is bat shit crazy, as opposed to the other 3 primary Judeo-Christian religions which are just bullshit crazy...
http://www.snopes.com/politics/romney/windows.asp
Per Snopes, although it is true that Romney made that remark, it was clearly told as a joke meant to lighten the mood. It was not a serious comment.
I watched the video too, and it's far from clear he's joking. I'd hope he was joking, but I was expecting him to go "because there's no oxygen out there" or something. Or to cue it as a joke and give time for a reaction. If it was a joke, he needs to hire better speechwriters or stop trying to ad-lib when he's obviously got no sense of humor and zero sense of comedic timing.
I hate to have to retract my statement after it has already gone +5 Informative. But it was technically incorrect. He didn't actually apologize. What he said was:
Ok, since I publicly called the guy a f*cking moron, I guess I should also publicly follow up: it does seem Romney was joking. Whew.
Which my brain, fluent in Torvaldish, automatically translated into the English
I am ever so sorry, it seems I have wronged you my good sir. My deepest apologies etc. etc.
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
Technically speaking, the poster is incorrect in referring to Linus Torvalds's comments as "profanity". They are, instead, vulgarity (common or coarse language), rather than profanity (language which demeans the sacred).
Hey ... I'm a writer. I can't help myself.
Check out my novel.
" The Mormon Bible is rather stupid and tiresome to read. But there is nothing vicious in its teachings. Its code of morals is unobjectionable. It's smooched from the New Testament and no credit given."
It is both amusing and aggravating to me how many people fall for someone else's predigested spin on any topic you name from their favorite media source. It is also amusing an aggravating to me how you can't find unbiased reporting on anything. There seems to be so much hysteria in the news lately both about politics and mormons. It is also amusing an aggravating to me how much the people who preach tolerance and acceptance of all viewpoints almost immediately turn around and slam people they don't agree with, often using strong words to demonstrate their disgust and lack of tolerance and acceptance. Don't like Romney and think he's a moron? Whatever. He is richer and accomplished more as governor and as a businessman that most of the people that call him a moron. Want to call Obama a bozo. Whatever. He is rich and president of the united states, which is more than most of the people who call him a moron have accomplished. Want to call mormons a crazy religion with unbelievable stories and majic underwear and all that? Whatever. They must have something going for them if they have 15 million or so members across the world. I try to listen some to liberal media and some to conservative media and figure the truth is somewhere between each sides spin. If I want to know more about what Mormons really believe, I will read their Book of Mormon. If I want to know more about what Muslims really believe, I will read the Koran. I won't listen to the stupid rumors that seem to be prevalent in the media or comments.
The problem with Mitt is that it wasn't clear that it was a joke.
There are two problems, one minor, one severe, which caused this:
One, he's not the funniest man in the world. That's fine. People are voting for a politican, and a great sense of humour and delivery - although useful, is not a prerequisite.
The second problem is the real one: He has said - and is running on a platform of! - so many so profoundly stupid things that it was in no way clear that he didn't sincerely mean this to be true.
toresbe
...when you say "cult," are you referring to Mormonism or Linux?
He's not really talking to people who hate Democrats anymore. He did that during the primary.
Now he's talking to independent voters who don't vote straight party ticket. People who hate Democrats are going to vote for him no matter what he says.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
He has a record of taking things that are failing and turning them around.
What 'record' did you read? He runs an economic chop shop, runs up huge debts and then sells off the pieces and fires the workers. He's second hand 'Reaganomics'.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Tsk, talking about confirmation bias.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/09/26/obama_jumps_in_gallup_tracker.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150743/Obama-Romney.aspx
Oh... Gallup suddenly is not that credible anymore, is it?
You CANNOT open the window on a modern commercial US airliner.
Hello! Oh, wait... I didn't realize you said US airliner... never mind
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Here's the video:
http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/09/romney-airplane-windows-not-opening-a-real-problem.html
Judge for yourself. My only comment is that IF he was joking, he really needs to work on his delivery.
A religion is - imo- a way to control a mass of people by fear, and since so many people are ready to trust anything, it can only lead to mass stupidy and conflicts.
I just wish that everybody could read between the lines of all thoses books and religious statements, and just find a good way of living WHILE using their brains and think for themselves.
But I guess it's just a wish... not everyone was given a brain at birth ;)
I can't call that English
why the fuck would telling the truth 'reflect poorly; on either Linus or the Linux community.
Romney IS a fucking moron (or, at least, goes above-and-beyond to pander to morons that he is completely indistinguishable from one), and Mormonism IS batshit insane (as are all other religions, but Mormonism is pretty fucking crazy - not quite as crazy as scientology, but not far off it either. religion founded by a con-man, and only an idiot would believe the golden tablets story. the magic fucking underpants are laughable. what's not laughable are the nutcase patriarch survivalist forced-"marriage" rape compounds - i've got no problem with polygamy, or polygyny or any other form of polyamory but raping teenage girls is just unnacceptable)
And make up your own mind if Romney was joking:
http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/09/romney-airplane-windows-not-opening-a-real-problem.html
He's obviously never sat through one of those pre-flight things where the airline stewardesses tell you about the oxygen masks that drop down.
Just another example of a wantabee Feudal Lord that is out of touch with the common rabble that can't afford their own Learjet.
Boeing 737 and Airbus 320 for example.
If he wasn't joking: For venting smoke, the airbus manual says (or used to say) you have to reduce speed to below 200 knots. You should be at low altitude, of course.
Despite studies showing these it not much good in venting this way, crews still desire to do it.
I looked and Romney didn't say anything about " passengers rolling down the windows at 30,000 feet and at 500 knots."
That's just wild ass charicature circle jerking. What he said was that they (FAA? Manufacturer? Leasor?) should allow it. He might have been reflecting the crew's sentiments.
Venting air via an open window could be done using air rams to maintain pressure. The FAA doesn't like the planes slowing down and dropping altitude to do it for delayed landing, reduced cummonication, and analysis of In effectiveness.
Wide body jets are particularly bad aerodynamically to allow venting based on studies.
planes in the US May have their windows bolted shut, I don't know about that.
But I do know that even today there are planes evenin commercial service that have windows that can be opened in flight and older flight manuals gave instructions on how to do it in the event of smoke or fire. (btw, fire can be bad because the vacuum can pull it into other areas of the plane).
Anyway, I don't get Linus' reaction as I when I read the quote in the la times I immediately thought I understood what he was saying.
The planes are made with opening windows, but I don't know
/me sips his coffee and ponders a new sig...
No it fucking isn't. It's a tool to provide emphasis - for instance compare "that may be damaged" to "it's fucked". It's difficult to get a group of welders to understand how serious a situation is without using profanity.
Unless he's become naturalized, he's still a Finnish citizen, so all he can add is commentary. I happen to agree with him, but he'd come out in support of Romney, my response would have been the same. He's just one human being among 9 billion with an opinion. Whatever.
As for the substance of what he said... Well... Every time you see Romney on T.V... Just remember... under his clothes, he's wearing magic underwear...seriously.
Look up the core tenants of what Mormons believe and then ask yourself... Does this guy really believe this? If so, do you think he's more or less so suited to our next president?
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
...and the majority seem to be Linux fans. I wonder how they're going to take this. I'm always trying to sway them to Windows and maybe I'll have more success now.
I've opened the side door of a plane at 15,000 feet. It's standard operating procedure for skydiving.
my religion isn't. I am a Mormon. I guess I should be offended by what Torvalds said, but if I go around getting offended by every time somebody says something unthinking or inaccurate, then I won't live my life. Perhaps if all I knew about my faith came from people ranting on the internet I guess that I would be scared too. But here is the thing. When I find someone who makes a pretty easy factual mistake about something, I can ignore the rest of what they say pretty easily. For example. Lets say that you read a history textbook that says that Theodore Roosevelt ended World War II by dropping an H-bomb on Tokyo in 1946. Would you pay any attention at all to any analysis that that book made? If you know anything about history, you could quite easily detect the subtle yet easily identifiable mistakes that someone not quite in the know would make. If you didn't know any better, you could conceivably believe the person. But you would be wrong.
OK, so how does that apply here? You said, "golden plates that no-one ever saw". Now, if you knew even a smidgen of Mormon history you would know about the three Witnesses and the eight Witnesses. In fact, their testimony is printed in every Book of Mormon. Each of those eleven men to their dying day never denied seeing the plates. Some people after interviewing them tried to explain away, or spin what was said so Martin Harris and David Whitmer countered newspaper accounts with their own newspaper advertisements. Even fifty years after the fact, after Joseph Smith was long dead and the LDS church was in Utah, Whitmer 1000 miles away safely in Missouri could have easily denied his testimony but expressed the truth of what he saw and said on his deathbed. He even had it engraved on his tombstone. To state that "no-one ever saw" the plates (or claimed to have seen the plates) is a serious misrepresentation of historical record. So, any further analysis that you might bring is "objectively and obviously" incorrect.
Most of the stuff deemed "bat XXXX crazy" really comes from people and books who falsify and misrepresent our church and its beliefs. It is very disappointing that people who consider themselves intelligent and open minded really aren't. I guess it is ok to make fun of us, just realize that you are being a bigot while you do it.
So, the next time you have something glib to say about Mormons, just run it by a real Mormon first. We'll tell you the truth.
No. It reflects on the application of critical thinking to topics other than Linux.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
who's F**king Moronic idea was it, that this is even /. newsworthy?
In the run up to the US election, any excuse to publish political story will be taken. It guarantees hundreds of posts ignoring the supposed topic, just rehashing the usual political talking points.
And why is this dumb story sourced to "networkworld.com"? These assholes are just playing the same game, getting pagehits. Link to what Linus actually wrote: https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/2Z4pgYDFeEm?hl=en
Linus is allowed to have personal opinions. He's not putting "Fuck Romney" in the Linux kernel, just writing a personal blog.
Please don't take offense, but I am quite familiar with the topic. After some people confuted the words "spiritual experience" and started the "spiritual eyes" reporting Harris and Whitmer to clarify their testimony began using much more concrete terms while granting interviews, and made sure to write and publish their own accounts. Historians much prefer first hand accounts to second hand accounts (otherwise known as hearsay). Even after some of them left the church,
Look, I have a book full of 200 first and second hand accounts of the translation of the Book of Mormon called "Opening the Heavens" Accounts of Divine Manifestations 1820-1844 right next to me. I have also read the book "Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses" by Richard Anderson. Again, several accounts and let me quote
""'Do you still believe that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a prophet?" Martin Harris, standing in the Kirtland Temple on a bright, winter day, pointed to one of the arched Gothic windows where the sun was streaming through it and said, "Do I see the sun shining? Just as surely as the sun is shining on us . . . I saw the plates; I saw the angel."
As a very old man, Martin went to Utah and spent the last five years of his life there in upper Cache Valley. When people in his community asked him about the plates of the Book of Mormon, he continued using physical objects like the sun to illustrate his testimony. One time he raised his hand and asked, "'Do you see that hand? . . . Are your eyes playing you a trick or something? . . . Well, as sure as you see my hand so sure did I see the angel and the plates." Martin Harris, like all the witnesses, was especially desirous at the end of his life to have people hear and repeat his testimony.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=21
Reading that exmormon.org article was frustrating as I am familiar with the sheer volume of both first and second hand accounts that it plainly ignores. Read my comment on the flawed WWII lesson. Then understand when I say when a skillful writer with an agenda (like someone who is mad at the LDS church) can ignore evidence to bolster their argument. I'm not stupid or naive, I know that you aren't going to read those books or look up the article that I provided. Just know though that we aren't bat XXXX crazy and we do have reasons for what we believe. Getting through the stuff made up by people keeps people from the real message of the Book of Mormon. Its message is that God lives, has a plan for us, that we need to love and care for others, that offensive war is evil, pride from wealth will cause society to sicken and die, it is possible to change to become holy and that Jesus Christ paid a heavy price to save mankind. Most people who talk about it have never actually read it.
I've never met the man although I have tremendous respect for his technical skills and the barriers he has helped to break down. But he might be in a little over his head on this one. Romney's comment about the airplane window was obviously in jest and I don't expect he will win any comedy awards any time soon. Torvald's crack about Mormonism was not only uncalled for, it's offensive. I'm not a Mormon but i defend people's right to practice any religion they choose, or not practice any at all. For someone that is supposed to be a so called 'leader' in their field it shows shockingly bad judgement.
As I said, I've never met Torvalds but I've seen videos of him speaking and my impression of him, apart from his considerable technical talents, continues to dwindle. He appears to have no social skills what so ever - exhibit A, see above. It doesn't do much to dispel the pasty, gruff, immature stereotype of the uber geek. The guy seems like he ought to be living in his parents basement with a big bag of Cheetos, gallons of Mountain Dew and empty pizza boxes piled up beside the CPU.
I defend Torvald's right to free speech, by the way, but for someone in his position I would expect a little more polish.
We all know Romney are just as crazy, unethical, slimy and backhanded as Obama. Calling it out as it is just makes Linus look better. Same goes for religious people. We need more people with balls enough to say what they really think. Right now we have a very small minority that sets the agenda for everyone else because they are to afraid to speak their mind. People even go to church because they are afraid to lose their jobs otherwise.
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You dont need to be brilliant to spell it out like Torvalds do, it just takes enough balls to tell the truth. People need to try it out more.
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Why would would you ask a Catholic and a Muslim about their religion, but a Hindu about his language?
(Hint: Hindi is a language; Hinduism is the religion)...
and you canâ(TM)t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows donâ(TM)t open. I donâ(TM)t know why they donâ(TM)t do that. Itâ(TM)s a real problem. So itâ(TM)s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes.
So he was making a joke in the context of his wife choking on smoke from a fire while in the air. What a fucking asshole.
This series of unfortunate remarks makes Linus look silly for several reasons.
1. Mittens was obviously joking.
2. Attack candidates on substantive issues. Do you want us dredging up Obama's non-joking verbal gaffe in which he identified the United States as having 57 states?
3. Intolerance. I thought attacks on religion were considered bigoted. Mormonism deserves the same respect we give the exotic religions like Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Shintoism, Ba'hai, FSM, etc.
People with liberal arts degrees see geeks as having a one-dimensional understanding of reality. Where the liberal arts teaches hierarchy, geeks tend to see a flat hierarchy in which every possibility is an "option" independent of all other concerns. When it comes to analysis of politics, philosophy or literature, this approach just looks dumb, because it is a dumbing-down of a complex problem into an attitude that suspiciously resembles the search for technological solutions.
This was my experience in college.
If someone brings up an aspect of reality that doesn't affirm that we're all exactly 100% equal, then call them a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, redneck, chauvinist, classist, ageist or genderist.
This allows all discussion to be shut down except that which fawningly panders to the idea of Total Equality, which has started to become a State religion here in the United States and Europe.
This reminds me of the final days of the Soviet Union. There was a shortage of manufacturing parts that made it impossible to make parts for some machinery. However, if you said that there was no way to make parts, that was admitting that the Soviet system had failed, so you would be shot. The only way to survive was to load boxes with irrelevant junk, deliver them as parts, and then when the failure was discovered, claim it was the weather or a manufacturing error. As a result, the Soviet system had no idea it couldn't make parts that it needed until years later.
I'm not denying the good intentions of many in this regard. I, too, have good intentions toward others. As a scientist however I'm only interested in truth, and not political "truth." That kind of fake truth can get us all killed in a nuclear war or other catastrophic failure, like the collapse of the Soviet Union.