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Game Review: Torchlight 2

CowboyNeal writes: "Last week was a big week for gamers, with the release of both Borderlands 2 as well as Torchlight 2. I already shared my thoughts on the former last week, so I got to playing the latter over the weekend. Torchlight 2 is the follow-up to Torchlight, the 2009 point-and-click ARPG created by Runic Games. What's new that the first game didn't have? And, the big question, how does it stack up against Diablo 3? Click the link below to learn my impressions of the game."

A Testimonial, and a Confession

First, I have to admit some bias here. When Diablo 2 came out over a decade ago, it was my favorite game for quite some time. Its expansion pack only cemented its position as the best game of all time, for me. It's key to note here, that Diablo 2 was only the best game ever in my opinion, and eventually it aged and got to the point where it was nigh unplayable on modern computers. I even tried going back several times in the past few years, and just found it too archaic to function properly on modern hardware. It desperately needed either some patches or a successor to bring it up to date.

When Blizzard Entertainment announced Diablo 3, I couldn't have been happier. At last, an updated version of the best game ever would be available. However, something felt odd about Diablo 3 even before I ever played it. Blizzard kept reviews at bay until after release via a restrictive NDA. That's fairly common, and not enough to raise suspicion alone, but still odd that there weren't more early peeks allotted to the usual media channels. Even after its release, the demo was only available by invite. I couldn't even download the demo for Diablo 3 unless someone who had already bought the game gave me a code. Now something smelled fishy. So I held onto my sixty dollars, which while would be a small price to pay for the best game ever, it seemed like Diablo 3 wouldn't be that game. Eventually I was able to wrangle a demo code from someone who had bought the game and wanted to lure me into playing it. I didn't get very far into the demo before I got a quest just to use a waypoint. Perhaps they didn't realize that I have killed Diablo and his brothers dozens if not hundreds of times already. I know how to work a waypoint. I need monsters to kill. Out of respect for the franchise, I kept on. I even finished the demo, but by the time I did so, it was clear to me, that Diablo 3 was going to be a giant let-down for me. Whatever fun I had with Diablo 2 was done and gone, and would stay in the past.

I had had the good fortune of playing Torchlight, and like just about everyone else, my biggest complaint was that the game had no multiplayer. Other than the lack of multiplayer, I thought it was just about perfect. Given my previous love for Diablo 2, this shouldn't be any sort of surprise. So now at long last, Runic has released the multiplayer-enabled Torchlight 2. Similar to the old "Open Battle.Net" games of Diablo 2, you can play the same character in single player, LAN, and internet games. This proved to be key, as on release day, Runic's servers melted from the onslaught of players. Internet games were finally enabled a couple days later, but in the meantime, plenty of single player and LAN games were had. Through the creative usage of some VPNs, I was even able to play LAN games over the internet.

Once More Into the Fray

The game starts off in the ruins of the town of Torchlight. Wait a second, didn't I save the town from Ordrak at the bottom of the mines and whatever else was down there? Well, it turns out that I did, so long as I wasn't playing an alchemist. The alchemist, on the other hand, was corrupted by the heart of Ordrak and immediately knew that he had to burn down the town, and leave a path of death and destruction across the land as he began his new plot to destroy the world. Okay, so the plot isn't Hugo Award caliber stuff here, but neither was "Diablo lived somehow, and you have to go kill him again," nor was "Hey, why don't you just run on into this dungeon and fetch me the Amulet of Yendor." Really the plot is just a means to goad me into venturing into areas that I haven't already taken it upon myself to go explore and kill everything in.

That brings us down to what the real fun in any point-and-click ARPG is. Taking on and killing hordes of enemies at once, securing an area, and then reaping the immediate rewards in the form of experience and loot. The Torchlight series has traded in the grimdark setting of Diablo for an art style that's a bit more cartoon-like, but the core gameplay survives. This is a feature that Torchlight 2 recreates flawlessly. Combat is fast, frenetic, and visceral. Enemies have a chance to explode into a pile of gibs, leaving bloodstains on the ground. Frozen enemies can be shattered into chunks of ice. Often the action happens so fast, that creatures can be slain before I'm even aware they exist. It's exactly the opposite of the first act of Diablo 3, which comparatively felt like drudgery.

Building the Perfect Warrior

There's four classes to choose from in Torchlight 2, and while they follow some archetypes, they're also rather configurable in how they're played via skills and weapon choices. The embermage is a classic spellcaster who uses staves and wands, and can learn many different spells to put down his enemies. The outlander is a ranged class that excels at nearly every sort of ranged weapon. The berserker is a melee damage class that can gain bonuses from using two weapons of the same type. And last but not least, is the engineer, a versatile class that can use shields, two-handed weapons, and even cannons, or some combination of those, depending on skill set. It's important to note here, that every class can wield every weapon, there's just not always a bonus for doing so. You're free to make a berserker who uses shotguns, for example, there's just not many skills for the class to support it.

Skills aren't tied to any sort of tree structure like they were before. You only need to be of a skill's required level to unlock it. Active skills such as spells, will also confer a bonus after investing five, ten, or fifteen points into them. Leveling up a character also isn't the only way to gain skill points. As you gain in fame from killing bosses and random named mobs, you acquire a skill point for every level of fame you've achieved as well.

Keep Going Back For More

It took me a little over 20 hours to save the world, on my first trip through on normal difficulty. Normal difficulty was still rather easy, and I think my next trip through the world will be at the veteran level. There are however, still a number of activities for my first character to do. Completing the game unlocks the Mapworks, a robot-run area where you can load custom maps to complete. It's also possible to create a new world that begins at your current level, so I could start a new game with that character where the first monsters would be around level 50. Because the dungeons and open areas outside towns are randomly generated, a second playthrough manages to still feel somewhat fresh. Combine that with a character class that you haven't played before, or a new set of skills for one that you have, and there's lots of reasons to keep replaying.

But is this the new best game ever?

In short, yes. I've spent time reading people's meager, whiny complaints about this gift of the gods that has been put on sale for a mere twenty dollars. Sure, you can only reallocate the last three skill points you've spent, and you can't redo all your stats and skills once you're leveled up. That's so that you learn from your mistakes and go back and play the game again. There's no one to hold your hand to find the area where the quest is at. There's a marker on your map for you to aim for, and that's more than any player deserves. The quests are still rather simplistic, and of the form to go kill someone or a group of someones, or to collect a thing, or a group of things. Again, the quests are merely a vehicle to get you into new areas. If you happen to kill the guy that advances the plot, that's a bonus. If you stop to talk to an NPC, the world does not stop for you. Enemies will continue to attack you as you choose your quest reward, because you were too stupid to clear out the area of any possible threats before sitting down to talk. I think I've now sufficiently debunked any negative points I've read in other reviews. If you don't like point-and-click ARPG games, you're not going to like this one. No one is going to change the entire genre to enable someone's crazy ideas. Well, unless it's Diablo 3, and look how that turned out. Sure it sold well, but I would now have to waterboard my friends into admitting that they fell for purchasing it.

My biggest complaint about this most perfect game, is that there's no Mac or Linux versions, yet. I say yet, because three years after the first game was released, we even have a Linux version now. You can pick it up, DRM-free, right now for a limited time, for the price of whatever-you-want, as part of the Humble Indie Bundle 6. You can donate some or all of the price to the EFF as well. Shameless plugs aside, it may take a few years but eventually Torchlight 2 should make the rounds as well. Runic Games has a lot in store for the game yet, such as console versions, as well as Steam Workshop integration, which will enable easy mod installation. Mod support will presumably let players redo their skills and stats, and cheat if they want to.

221 comments

  1. Good by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since Diablo 3 is a DRM'd monstrosity, I'll give this a try, just to help show blizzard why they aren't getting money.

    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After reading that review, there's no way I'll waste my money on either. Although, I am open to changing my mind with better information, so I'd like to see your opinion after you've played it.

    2. Re:Good by Quirkz · · Score: 2

      I pre-ordered Torchlight 2 when Diablo 3 came out and I concluded I wouldn't buy it because of the always-online requirement. However, I never got any notices that Torchlight 2 had become available, so until just a few minutes ago I didn't realize it was out. Apparently Steam doesn't bother sending notices when pre-orders are released, unless a spam filter ate it or something.

      I'm looking forward to giving the game a shot, though after about 1.5 playthroughs of the original Torchlight I started to find that game a little hollow, as it seemed to mostly boil down to a lot of dice rolls while attempting to enchant equipment, and mostly failing. I still figure I can get my money's worth out of the game before the fun fades.

    3. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steam doesn't send email alerts to it, no. But if you actually use steam, that "update news" window lets you know when a game you preordered is about to be available so you can pre-load it.

    4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you or anybody else wants to buy Torchlight because of their issues with D3, send a message to Activision/Blizzard by emailing or sending them your receipt for your purchase of Torchlight (or whatever else you spent your money on).

      Not buying their product is one thing (they might just attribute it as a loss to piracy). Showing them that you had the money *and* inclination to buy something but instead bought a competitors product is a whole other thing.

    5. Re:Good by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      I am not always online, to take your complaint about complaining elsewhere.

    6. Re:Good by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      I only log in when I'm actually playing, so I don't see that stuff much. Next time I'll mark the calendar if I preorder something, I guess.

    7. Re:Good by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 1

      Your complaint is illogical.

      It's like complaining to the front desk at a hotel that you didn't get your wake up call...after you unplugged the phone.

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    8. Re:Good by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      I think it's more like complaining that the alarm clock in the room didn't go off after you unplugged the phone, and them explaining how even though one might think an alarm clock doesn't need a phone connection, automatically updating the time on the clock does require the phone connection, and while sure one could theoretically have designed the alarm to function normally in the absence of a phone connection only minus the features the connection enables rather than disable it completely, but they didn't do it that way and so here we are.

      I don't really mind the online requirement of D3 -- mostly because I'm not trying to play it so much that it matters if I can't those times I'm not connected. I have other games.

      But the complaint is still valid because one does not normally associate single-player non-AH activities with requiring an internet connection, it is perfectly possible to design a game such that this is the case, and so the decision to do it differently can be questioned.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    9. Re:Good by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude I gotta say...TORCHLIGHT 2 ROCKS!!! I pre-ordered for me and my boys, they had a cool deal where you could pay $60 (the same as a single copy of D3) and get 4 copies of Torchlight 1 AND get 4 of Torchlight II on release, what a steal! BTW you can still get 4 copies for $60 but I don't think you get TL 1 for free like if you pre-ordered.

      Torchlight 1 is still a blast but to me its not the MP that was missing, it was the challenge. You could save up gems and build a "weapon of ultimate ass kickery" and just slaughter the entire game. Now not only did they fix this but LOOOT BABY LOOOT! The loot is cool but you gotta seriously hunt and fight and you WILL die even on normal level, these bad guys don't play around! There is this Manticore boss out in the desert and when we hit that place it was like walking into hell, just fire and explosions and lightning, and when you are playing MP with friends or family here is some KILLER things about MP..1.-Everyone gets their own loot, no loot snatching, 2.-Trading is simple and easy, if you get something your buddy can use or he gets a cool weapon you need for the set you're building? Swap in seconds. 3.-Bad guys ramp up a LOT when you add players, no going in with your buds and just laying waste, you better bring your A game because they sure do!

      I know everyone is gonna compare to Diablo 3, but I don't think that is fair or right. They built D3 to be an online only MMO style real money market thing, while Torchlight 2 takes all we loved about D1 and D2 and dungeon crawlers and just ramps it to 11, making everything better! It really makes it a community, even going so far as to say "Modders are welcome here, come on in!" so we'll be seeing cool stuff added to Torchlight for years, which is something I LOVE LOVE LOVE to see games do, it adds so much to an already great game!

      So if you like RPGs? If you like dungeon crawlers? If you liked Diablo 1 and 2? if you don't like always on DRM and real money markets? then BUY TORCHLIGHT 2 NOW! The first time we played the boys kept popping up in game "You only paid $20 a copy for this? Seriously? this rocks!" and I have to agree, its the most fun I've had in an RPG dungeon crawler in years, great loot, great sets, great drops, hard bad guys and bosses,lots of secrets and easter eggs (be sure to look for a basket near where you find the lotion for a cute "Silence of the Lambs" riff) its just a fricking blast!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Good by CodeHxr · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you or anybody else wants to buy Torchlight because of their issues with D3, send a message to Activision/Blizzard by emailing or sending them your receipt for your purchase of Torchlight (or whatever else you spent your money on).

      Not buying their product is one thing (they might just attribute it as a loss to piracy). Showing them that you had the money *and* inclination to buy something but instead bought a competitors product is a whole other thing.

      Too bad you posted that anonymously... I will do this when I get home tonight because it will also indicate that not only did I have the money for their game, I got *four* copies of their competitor's game for the same price as their own. Bonus points for "their competitor" being developers that were originally a part of Blizzard.

    11. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's mixed in with all the spam they show you when you're done playing.

    12. Re:Good by Billlagr · · Score: 1

      I loved D2, and still play it occasionally with my sons (who, incidently was 1 when it was released and the other wasn't even born - I feel so old), so I really was looking forward until D3 until I found out about the always online thing, and that was the deal breaker for me. Trading house, DRM, whatever the reason, always online is just not practical nor even possible, I spend a lot of time on trains (3 hrs + per day) travelling through regional areas with spotty coverage at best. I picked up TL 1 and enjoyed it, so I'll pick up TL2 for the multiplayer goodness and replace D2.

    13. Re:Good by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      An example of a GOOD always-online game: Guild Wars 2 - pay once, play forever! :) D3: an example of the other kind & everything that is wrong with greed & the almighty $ driving gaming development & companies. (hey, I knew Blizztard's time was up when they rolled out D2 patch 1.10 with their skill synergies crap & Warden filthware trying to push customers over to the WoW pay-per-month payola scheme...but still I got sucked into D3...*sigh*...ok, ~300hrs for me & the Mrs was money fairly well spent, minus the Inferno agony we hit in act 3, so now we've started hardcore chars ).

    14. Re:Good by Loki_666 · · Score: 1

      That's a good move i think.

      I've just downloaded the pirate version to check it out. Fell in love with it after 5 mins (and i'm not such a fan of ARPG games), but I'll be definitely buying a 4 pack of licences very soon to cover me and the kids, they deserve my money. Great work Runic!

    15. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone even download the pirate version when there's a demo that simply unlocks to the full version? o_O;

    16. Re:Good by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      Your review is a bit breathless... but, yeah. I totally agree.

      Torchlight 2 fucking rocks. =)

    17. Re:Good by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Sorry about that buddy, just got off a Torchlight 2 marathon with my youngest when i popped on and wrote that. he's rocking an Embermage with fire spells that are like nukes from God while I've got an engineer with a Poleaxe of ultimate slice your ass. I managed to score a shitload of magic find buffs and between him and me we've been hunting for killer armor sets, him going ga ga trying to find the pieces of this killer focus boosting set while I'm trying to find this set that will boost my magic finding and melee right off the charts!

      The battles, OMFG what battles, we dive into these huge mobs with fire and lightning and spells and minions flying everywhere, It gets to the point if he's gonna let loose the nuke I just step out of the way and pick off the straggles because the huge lightshow in the middle of the mob is just too crazy to battle through, the amount of secrets and hidden rooms and goodies we are finding make it worth exploring every little area and we've already decided to go back next round and revisit some places we already hit just to loot and level up.

      This may sound like hyperbole but its 100% true, I've got something like 5 new games sitting in Steam from the sales, including Deus Ex HR and the Crysis series which I haven't even fired up yet, i'm having too much fun playing Torchlight 2 to care ATM. Between the skills, the weapons and armor sets, the hidden secrets and easter eggs, the huge battles and tough bad guys I'm just having too damned much fun to care about playing anything else ATM and the fact my two soon to be no longer teenage boys can just jump in on my private game and the bad guys automatically ramp up just is the icing on the delicious cake.

      I mean all this gaming fun and its just $20? Its a no brainer, everybody that likes gaming and diablo style loot and battle games needs to buy this yesterday!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:Good by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone even download the pirate version when there's a demo that simply unlocks to the full version? o_O;

      Yeah, it's really odd that someone needs to play the entire full version of a game before deciding if it's any good and then, of course, buying it after they've already got it for free. Really odd indeed.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    19. Re:Good by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      My guess is so they can claim to be an example of a "good pirate" and support that image in a public place to the publishing companies. I'm not quite sure if it's misguided propaganda or helpful activism - or a bit of both. Still, more examples like this (even if this one doesn't make much sense) can probably only help the cause.

    20. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My only complaint in TL2 is that there isn't enough stash space for all my uniques. I have started 4 characters now to hold on to them in the personal stash.

      I really want a stash that has an open slot for each unique and set item in some sort of order that makes them reasonably easy to find.

      Gotta catch em all.

    21. Re:Good by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      That was the same problem with Titan Quest and one of the first things the modders released was an "infitite stash box" where when the game wasn't running you could unload your stash to one of 20 stash boxes,so I have NO doubt the modders will do something similar. i hope they don't go overboard like the TQ guys did though, they made it so you could right click and instantly get a set or turn any partial runes into full runes, that was too much power.

      Now that said I CAN see why they did it, in TL1 it was too easy to save up an assload of gems or go gem hunting and up-convert them until you had a "weapon of mass destruction" that would just let you slaughter everything with a single hit. The devs said they were trying to get people to actually use the cool stuff and not just hoard constantly so having a limited pack does help you to take a hard look and only keep the REALLY good stuff.

      So now I ONLY keep sets that will kick ass on a certain character, gold sets preferably, and if it doesn't have sockets? chunk it. There are too many killer gems to mess with the unsocketed crap and low level loot is plentiful so only save the REALLY cool stuff. As you said if you have trouble deciding you can always make a "dump character' to load their box with junk, but I've found by actually spending a little time throwing out the trash i have nearly half my stashbox free.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    22. Re:Good by Loki_666 · · Score: 1

      Or just because a) I didn't even consider there may be a demo version, b) that getting licenses would unlock the demo to full, c) getting the pirate version is probably easier than getting the demo version (don't know.... maybe you have to register for the demo?), and d) I can play as much as i want until payday when i can actually pay for the licenses, which is still a couple of weeks away.

      And i've done it a few times before, paying for things after downloading the pirate version. I do it because for some games i believe the devs deserve my money. Of course, if i download something and it turns out to be a pile over overy-hyped over-marketed crap, then i don't lose out. ;-)

      Any more conspiracy questions?

    23. Re:Good by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Unsocketed stuff is worth keeping if a single socket is all you need in it to make it worth while. In the second Act one of the NPC's can add a socket to any item if you also give him two gems of equal or higher level. I've got a gem from relatively early on that I found with +129 hp or something like that. Every time I find a new helmet that is better than my existing helm otherwise, I unsocket the gem, socket the new helm and add my gem. The funny thing for me is that I must suck at the game. I started an embermage on Vetran and didn't really like the way it was playing, so I switched to a Berzerker on the same difficulty and have been loving it. But I think I'm only in the third act or maybe the end of the second, and I've probably got 40 or 50 hours into it.

      PS - Lastnight just before I shut down for the night I found a Badgermask. I had never heard of it before but it is the bee's knees and the flavor text is just the icing on the cake.

  2. Yep. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Normal difficulty was still rather easy

    This was one of my very few issues with the game, I don't think "normal" should be labeled such.
    The descriptions of the difficulty levels, as I noticed later, are accurate though. It calls normal something along the lines of "never played action RPGs before"
    I usually play a game on "normal" cause I'm not looking to tear my hair out, but I think the difficulty levels should have been "super easy, easy, normal, and hard"

    1. Re:Yep. by shaunbr · · Score: 1

      I also think that there's too big of a difficulty jump between normal and veteran. In normal, I'd build up a big excess of potions since nothing hit me very hard. In veteran, I was dying continuously and sending my pet back to town constantly just to get enough potions to survive. I was spending all of my gold just to keep an adequate stock of potions around.

      At least for a first playthrough, the perfect difficulty would be something between normal and veteran. Unfortunately, that difficulty level doesn't exist (yet - at least until someone chooses to come along and make a mod to create it). That's just a minor complaint though - I've already put 30 hours in and I don't see myself stopping anytime soon.

  3. No Crafting by oGMo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think my biggest complaint is the same as Borderlands 2 .. no crafting to break up the slay-collect-sell rinse-repeat. I guess if you like slay-collect-sell that much, this game is perfect for you. If you want to set your own goals for finding rare components and crafting powerful gear, you're SOL, but that's not everyone's cup of tea.

    On the other hand, TorchED is promised, and moddable games are good, which is what sold me. Hopefully someone can add to the gameplay!

    --

    Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    1. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Right because crafting was totally awesome in Diablo 3 ... er ... World of War ... er ... Star Wars Galaxies?

    2. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Right because that's totally relevant since every game has to be an exact feature-scrape of another. You must work for Zynga.

    3. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right because that's totally relevant since every game has to be an exact feature-scrape of another. You must work for Zynga.

      Um, how about just being at all relevant to gameplay instead of a tacked on after thought?

    4. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I only played D3 so I can only comment on that. Crafting would have been a lot of fun if Blizzard hadn't intentionally made it more expensive and less powerful than buying at auction for some very obvious reasons that are the core of what's wrong with D3.

    5. Re:No Crafting by omglolbah · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can at least merge set items and various types of equipment into new random pieces in Torchlight 2.
      Not nearly as much of a crafting system as I would like to see, but better than the usual "this item is not for my class, vendor trash..."

    6. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually there is a function which is somewhat analogous to the horadric qube, so it could be said that there is some degree of crafting

    7. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say crafting is what kills any incentive to explore dungeons in Skyrim. Why hunt around for a better weapon/armor when you can over boost your skills and create the ultimate set? Especially with various stacking bugs?

    8. Re:No Crafting by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      Or MINECRAFT!!! That has all the crafting you should ever need.

      Make it extra hard by loading on survival mode.

    9. Re:No Crafting by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The whole point of this particular game is that it's a "feature-scrape" of the original Diablo titles, to a large extent.

    10. Re:No Crafting by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3

      Just because the game has an easy exploit in its stat system doesn't mean that you have to actually exploit it, you know. No-one is forcing you to craft those Potions of Fortify Smithing/Echanting 1000000%, and doing so requires deliberate work, so just don't do it?

      Granted, regular crafting in Skyrim is still somewhat overpowered. But then you still have to waste skill points to unlock enough of the tree to let you craft the really powerful stuff (glass/ebony/daedric/dragon) - which, if you dungeon crawl, you might as well invest into some combat or magic skills instead.

      Besides, Elder Scrolls games were always hilariously unbalanced, crafting or not. For example, if you knew where to go and had just the right character build, you could get a full set of daedric armor before hitting level 3 in Morrowind - though it required quite a bit more of an effort compared to stacking potions in Skyrim. Still, the choice always was and remains to simply not do it.

    11. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMO crafting did indeed have loads of potential in Star Wars Galaxies, but was overly complicated. Ryzom took the core aspect of SWG and simplified it considerably, to create a totally awesome crafting system. Too bad the rest of the game sucked.

    12. Re:No Crafting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was also possible, at least in Morrowind, to get *negative* Magicka by pushing your intelligence high enough. Apparently someone used signed integers for the stats, and pushing your INT too high caused integer overflow... Also, getting your strength high enough resulted in you jumping and then basically never coming down (well, you probably would have eventually, but it would have taken a long, *long* time.

  4. A video flick with included masturbation button. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Torchlight 2 still didn't manage to give me anything that Dungeon Siege 2 did...

    The WoW-esque graphics are such an extreme turn-off, and the fact that anyone from Blizzard had so major an influence on the game is just as much a boner-kill. Torchlight 2 had promise, but didn't deliver any more than Diablo 3 did. Mashing a single button and watching random numbers float by isn't fun, and is definitely not all that an ARPG can accomplish, but Torchlight 2 has literally nothing else. There's no choices or complexity, it's strictly mindless in all the bad ways. So much so that it ceases to even be mindless fun.

    I require engagement from my games. That is to say, I require them to be games -- you know, interactive and thoughtful?

  5. Linux support by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had hoped that the Linux release of the original meant that the sequel would have it from the beginning. Unfortunately, this is not the case, which means I won't be purchasing this game now, I don't want more Windows software. Hopefully they'll do a Linux port of this game before it becomes irrelevant. Too bad they don't have one now, or they could have my twenty bucks, too.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Linux support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It probably would have cost more than twenty bucks to make a Linux port.

    2. Re:Linux support by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It probably would have cost more than twenty bucks to make a Linux port.

      I know you think you're funny, but most people spend more than I do on the humble bundles (well, most linux users) so clearly there's a paying linux games market out there, and given that most people are willing to spend more than I am, if I'm willing to buy this game, there's probably a bunch of other people willing to do the same. The engine probably didn't have to change dramatically between games (though what do I know?) and if it didn't then there's no excuse for there not being a Linux version right now.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Linux support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, a number of people make large donations to the Humble Bundle in the name of Linux to skew the average. The reason the Humble Bundle people don't release the data on median payment amount is to maintain their convenient lie.

    4. Re:Linux support by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      No, a number of people make large donations to the Humble Bundle in the name of Linux to skew the average.

      Well, perhaps when/if Torchlight 2 comes out for Linux, maybe those people can buy multiple copies and send them to people :p

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Linux support by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I suspect they'll do a late in life cycle port to include in a Humble Bundle if it's (Humble Bundle) going strong still.

      Currently there's about $100k per game in developer tips (assuming default split, and all games, including bonus previous participants are paid equal). Large games are often ported by a few people in their spare-time over a year, I imagine that effort is worth $100k. I also suspect prior to the Humble Bundle very few copies of the Linux version were sold. The fact that Linux compatibility is a requirement of being eligible for the bundle makes me believe that porting a cleanly coded (or flash based) game to Linux is a no-brainer for a developer, it's probably not worth it until the higher priced market drys up though.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    6. Re:Linux support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is already confirmed by many to run in the latest Wine. I'm playing the demo on Ubuntu 12.04 and Wine 1.5 with the latest Nvidia drivers.

    7. Re:Linux support by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      then there's no excuse for there not being a Linux version right now.

      That statement is a little naive. They will release the Linux version when it is ready. They aren't going to sit on the Windows version once it's done just so that they can also finish the Linux version before starting to sell either one. And there's no reason to split the team into 2 versions doing simultaneous development when they should focus the entire team on making the game great and polished, on whatever platform they want first (turns out they picked the one with the biggest market share), and then refocus the entire team into porting to other platforms. They can be making money on sales while they're working on the platforms with smaller market shares. It makes perfect sense to do that if they happen to be one of those companies that is working with finite resources.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    8. Re:Linux support by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I also suspect prior to the Humble Bundle very few copies of the Linux version were sold.

      I'm pretty sure that the HB marked the debut of the Linux version of Torchlight, in fact.

    9. Re:Linux support by ElusiveJoe · · Score: 1

      A good Linux port is needed. Torchilght 1 as it is right now is a piece of crap on Linux, unfortunately.

    10. Re:Linux support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at what the average purchase price is on the Humble bundles, divide it by the number of games. Linux gamers on a whole are exceedingly cheap. Not nearly enough money to cover porting costs.

    11. Re:Linux support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it's not what you want, but Torchlight 2 runs almost perfect under wine. You do have to turn off shadows, though.

    12. Re:Linux support by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Well that's probably pretty much will be the entirety of their Linux sales.

      considering Linux was a requirement of inclusion, And that all hb sales are pretty much bonus sales (I suspect that like me, most people are spending veer money on a handful of indie games, most of which they'd never even know about without the bundle).

      150k (bonus games get small one time payments apparently, so the five main games probably get close to 200k) should definitely make the port worth the money on a game that probably was earning nothing at this point. They may have thrown in an ad for the sequel in a splash screen too.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    13. Re:Linux support by westlake · · Score: 1

      I know you think you're funny, but most people spend more than I do on the humble bundles (well, most linux users) so clearly there's a paying linux games market out there.

      The average Linux donation for HB 6 was $10.47 --- for ten games or about 10% of retail list for the bundle. The total return from the Linux gamer somewhat better than 25% of the $2 million plus total --- call it $500,000 to be split among developers, charities, and the HB itself. The Humble Indie Bundle 6

      The top contributor, Markus Persson, of "Minecraft" fame, donating $10,000.

      There are real problems in using the promotional pricing of the indie Humble Bundle as evidence that the average Linux gamer will pay the full price for the first-run product.

  6. Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Torchlight 1 does not allow you to change keybindings.
    Diablo 3 does.

    I almost *never* find default key bindings to be any good.

    Can you bind your commands however you want in Torchlight 2? If not, I will stick with D3.

    1. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by bedonnant · · Score: 5, Informative

      yes, you can.

      --
      ~~~ Paf. Le chien.
    2. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Halo1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Torchlight 1 does not allow you to change keybindings.

      Actually, it does. For some reason, there's no UI for doing so though.

      --
      Donate free food here
    3. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, who's evil? And why?

    4. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by bryansj · · Score: 1

      Yes. You can rebind your keys for TL2. I haven't played D3 since getting TL2 and I've been playing D3 since release. I'll probably skip D3 until patch 1.05 is released.

    5. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Dins · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wait, who's evil? And why?

      Think he meant Activision/Blizzard. And the fact that Diablo 3 requires you to always be connected to Blizzard's servers even while playing single player, while maybe not pure evil, is the reason I will never buy Diablo 3.

    6. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they evil because they wanted improved security offered by purely server side model for the RMAH? Or are they evil for having a RMAH? Or are they evil because it's the poster on the side of today's bandwagon? Or are they evil because the game doesn't exactly suit your taste?

      Please clarify.

    7. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One note... I got a friend together to play online and as I was arranging stuff, I accidently clicked this little green magnifying glass icon just to the bottom right of the health globe... it turns off your "loot bubbles" and no manner of going into options to figure out why there were turned off will help. All the "show items" are checked. It was frustrating until my Google fu turned up a link (which wasn't the easiest to find yet as it's not popular enough of a request).

      Hopefully that helps others.

      BTW, Torchlight 2 is awesome. But I'm also a huge fan of the original. I'm more than happy to advocate this game. I spent $60 on Diablo 3 and I'm beyond disappointed. Dare I say I wasted my money? I was a big Blizzard fan. I loved the Starcraft 1, Warcraft 1-3 and played WoW for a short time after CATA. Starcraft 2 was fun. I don't feel like I wasted my money there. But seriously, if company's can start pushing $20 games this good, I hope it sends a message to game developers everywhere.

    8. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Lehk228 · · Score: 2

      i don't have a problem with DRM requires internet (well actually i do, but ideological purity takes a back seat to "i know how to get a crack for this shit") I refuse to play a single player game that is only partially on your PC and is dependent upon a remote server to function, for not legitimate reason

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    9. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by CodeHxr · · Score: 4, Informative

      But seriously, if company's can start pushing $20 games this good, I hope it sends a message to game developers everywhere.

      This, one thousand times.

      I bought a 4-pack of this for $60 from steam and gifted 3 of them to friends of mine. I haven't gotten this amount of enjoyment (including my friends' enjoyment) from $60 in a very long time, if ever.

    10. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by pugugly · · Score: 1

      Neverwinter nights DLC was what changed my feelings on DRM that phones home from "Philosophically opposed" to "screw that - never again"

      And I loved that game (At least after the first, please let me kill myself this is so depressing, campaign - {G}).

      Pug

      --
      An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
    11. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 2

      Can I play the game if the company that is putting up street lights and drills thru my internet connection and takes me off the web for a week when I am at home? If not, then yes, they are evil.

      And yes, three blocks over a company did exactly that. I was off the web unless I went to a cafe or was at work. If a company cannot be bothered to let a person play a single player game without being connected to the web, then they do not deserve my money.

      And I own d1, d2, sc1, and all the warcrafts that didn't require a server.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    12. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes you can. And you can add modifiers. So MB4,MB5,Shift-MB4,Shift-MB5,Ctl-MB4,CtlMB5 etc... can use the 2 side buttons for all needed spells

    13. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      This. And the fact that their insistence on making it online-only has jack shit to do with piracy or security, and far, far more to do with skimming our money from the RMAH (along with Paypal). Even if you only use the GMAH, you are still indirectly supporting the payola model, by virtue of simply playing - gold gets changed into $US & vice versa. Nuff said.

    14. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Ibag · · Score: 1

      While being passive-aggressive and using lmgtfy.com is fine when you're having a personal conversation with one other person, but it's kind of rude to use it when other people who did nothing wrong might want to click your link. I was curious if the key binding change was done at the console or if it required editing configuration files somewhere. Sadly, all I learned is that people on the internet can be needlessly condescending.

    15. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing I want, is support for controllers. Now, an ARPG doesn't make too much sense for controller use, but what I imagine is to turn it into a dual-stick shooter type control. You have the one stick to move, triggers to attack, and most importantly, a ring on the screen, with the targetting cursor still. For the stick what doesn't move, the vector corresponding to the second stick puts a cursor on screen that aims your attacks. I.e. so you can drop a fireball or grenade precisely where you need to put it, in a rough circle the size of most of the screen around you.

    16. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have a better question...why? You ALREADY have 10, count 'em, 10 slots you can use for pretty much ANYTHING, potions, fish to feed your pet, whatever, and those are controlled by..get this...the 1-0 keys on the top of the keyboard. How easy is that? Attack is left click, magic right, and you can swap magic in seconds by right clicking on the magic icon, easy peasy.

      So while its fine and dandy you can remap keys, and I'm sure since TL2 allows modding you'll see some nice little community tools like allowing several bindings to switch from, i just don't want anyone to think the default keys are shit. I have played a LOT of games where the default keys are shit and this? Not one of them. Try something like Turning Point: Fall of Liberty for a hair pulling wanna pull an Elvis on the monitor bad control scheme. this? this is a simple layout which for the fun but simple gameplay of "there is bad guy, go and thumpeth him" it works VERY well.

      For something that is a whole $20, allows modding, lets you play for free with your friends, lets you find the good loot instead of buying it from a market, and has countless hours of goodness? People sure do find some little nits to pick.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    17. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I refuse to buy Diablo 3 because of the elephant in the room that nobody seems to mention, being constantly connected to their servers for SP means you are gonna deal with la-la-la-lag. I've watched friends with 20MBit cable connections play and they would still get spots where it was obviously jerking and it wasn't their systems, its the thousands of miles between them and Blizzard's servers. Jim Sterling at The Escapist made a nice rant about how we should ALL be pissed at them for the DRM, and a big part was the jerking laggy mess he'd find or not being able to get on after buying on release day.

      Compare this to Torchlight 2. it took me and my boys less than 5 minutes to tie our Steam to Torchlight IIs matchmaking service (which is required because they also sell standalone Windows and soon Linux copies as they do TL I) and 3 minutes after that I was hosting a private server on my own system and the boys were in game and joining me in the fun. ZERO lag,no matter how many "super fireballs" the youngest liked to throw or insane supermoves the oldest pulled off, instant trading between us, it all "just worked" and when I had to sit in the doctor's office to get me some antibiotics for my bi-annual sinus infection i was playing my SP character (we agreed to save separate characters for MP and SP so that we'd be on the same level) on my little E350 netbook with no online and just having a ball.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your mom forgot to tell you that you were special when you called her this morning, and now this. However will you get through your day, precious?

    19. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by DuckDodgers · · Score: 1

      If you have one hand on your mouse for movement and targeting, you have one hand for your keybindings. Using the 1 through 0 keys means that it's not easy to view which key you're going to press without looking unless it's a key that you just used (e.g. if you bind heal potions to the '1' key, then you can press 1 over and over without problems - but if you need to press 8, you'll probably have to take your eyes off the screen to glance at the keys).

      It's much easier if you can bind the abilities you want to use through qwert, asdfg, and zxcvb (assuming a US keyboard layout). Then if you can touch type, you can hit exactly the key you want with one of the fingers of your right hand without taking your eyes off the screen. Plus you can hotkey between 15 abilities instead of 10.

    20. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure people who carry netbooks should be allowed to raise kids.

      How about laptops? Tablets? Smartphones? Liuggable suitcase 286s with 4 inch screens?

      I am keen to know the exact level at which portable computing hardware should lead to sterilisation and/or removal to an internment camp.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    21. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I haven't gotten this amount of enjoyment (including my friends' enjoyment) from $60 in a very long time, if ever.

      I'm fairly sure that losing my virginity cost less than that in cider, but I may be wrong.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    22. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Medinos · · Score: 1

      I got a 20$ steam copy, then after about an hour and a half, bought a 4 pack and sent them to friends who were on the fence about it after being burned by D3... We're all hooked now.

    23. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Put your pinky on the 1 key and your first finger on the 4 key, that gives you 4 hotkeys that can be anything you want. Remember this is a Diablo II style loot and bash, not MS Flight sim. Hell I found I rarely even use #4, I have health on 1, mana on 2, the restore potion on 3. That right there will take care of pretty much any battle you are in and if you need something funky like changing your pet into something else that can always wait until you have killed a little clearing so you can look down. I personally have the big fish i catch lined up in 5-9 which makes it easy to switch my doggie into something else if I need to, but I like having him be a spider as the web throws slow them little fast bastards down.

      That said unlike D3 and a lot of other new games out there Relic has made TLII completely modder friendly so i have no doubt it won't be a week or two before some modder comes out with a nice little app that will let you set several keybindings and switch on the fly.

      I just wanted those that hadn't played to game not to think that the keys were some frustrating mess, unlike other games I have played. With TLII a good 90% of the game can be played with just the mouse, its easy enough to see your item bar at the bottom and just "pop" whatever you want on the fly and right clicking on the spell bar brings up your spells which are easily told apart by the large colorful icons so no problem there.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    24. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Funny as I'm sure this is one of those ePeen douchebags that thinks anything that isn't a 21 inch core i7 monster with a 2Gb Nvidia card should not be allowed to exist. Of course they have to walk around looking for plug ins constantly, whereas I can play a game like TLII for 3 hours or more no problem, i also don't roast my nuts from the insane heat and can actually sit in a seat without having this huge ass desktop with screen attached dragging me down.

      For anyone who is NOT a douchebag I'd highly recommend the Asus EEE AMD netbooks, I can game for 3 hours, watch 720p videos for 5, surf for a little over 6, weighs only 2.5 pounds with a 6 cell and is small enough it never gets in the way and its 1366x768 screen is crisp and clear. the only thing I would suggest is if you get a unit with 1066 memory you swap it for some 1333 as the Radeon APU performance wise runs better with faster memory.

      All in all I'm quite happy I sold my full size for a netbook,WiFi is everywhere here and 12 inches seems to be the perfect size for screen readability and clarity. and unlike the douchebag I won't have sterilized myself by having a gaming rig sitting on my nuts.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    25. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      I think the Alt key is supposed to toggle the loot buttons. Does that work? (Sorry, just kind of a guess, I've only played about an hour so far, haven't pried into interface settings.)

    26. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't gotten this amount of enjoyment (including my friends' enjoyment) from $60 in a very long time, if ever.
       
      gigedy.

    27. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      holy crap i didn't even know about the RMAH.

      all i can say is repeating myself

      holy crap

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    28. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by Onuma · · Score: 1

      Can you bind your commands however you want in Torchlight 2? If not, I will stick with D3.

      Yes.

      You can also use modifiers such as shift, alt, etc. on your key bindings.

      TL2, honestly, has the feel and action which I had hoped D3 would. YMMV, but I really think the game as a whole is far superior. The only drawback is that they don't use Steamworks to for multiplayer internet games, they use Runic's own matchmaking network which is very similar to the old Half-Life mm via Won.net.

      --
      What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
    29. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by StoneyMahoney · · Score: 1

      My personal preference is fingers on 1-4 for frequently used stuff, less frequently used stuff on QWER, thumb on C and V health/mana pots. Result - 10 actions, all far easier to access than the default 1-0 bindings.

    30. Re:Can you change the keybindings? by DuckDodgers · · Score: 1

      I can do fine in Torchlight (I haven't bought Torchlight 2 yet) with just two hotkeys - 1 for heal and 2 for mana.

      But I have more fun when I mix it up - fireballs, ice, shadow armor, summon skeletons, summon animated sword, crippling aura, titan stomp, slash attack, exploding shot, etc... etc... I could have some of the ability names wrong, it's been a few weeks since I played. But anyway, I enjoy seeing all the different animations and switching between them frequently instead of doing just doing one for five minutes, then the next for five minutes, then a third for five minutes, etc...

  7. 4-pack on Steam is only $60 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you have 4 friends(I know that's a stretch) you can buy a 4-pack on Steam and pay only $15 each. Also the music is done from one of the original Diablo people, so it's great too.

    1. Re:4-pack on Steam is only $60 by Minwee · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you have 4 friends(I know that's a stretch) you can buy a 4-pack on Steam

      And then pick the one friend you like the least and tell them they can't play with you. That's brilliant!

    2. Re:4-pack on Steam is only $60 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Torchlight 2 allows 6-players.

  8. Orig. Torchlight is part of current Humble Bundle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a note that the original Torchlight is part of the current Humble Bundle (Humble Bundle 6) found at http://www.humblebundle.com/

  9. My sentiments exactly... by Freddybear · · Score: 2

    I think I had exactly the same experience with this game. I like the cartoony art style and the fast chaotic battles. "Normal" difficulty seemed like Easy Mode, and I ran through it with an Embermage in about 23 hours of play. "Veteran" difficulty, on the other hand, requires some attention to get the build right and constantly keeping up with weapon and armor upgrades. But there is plenty of all that to choose from, and each of the character types can win with one of several different build styles. I might even stick my toe into the Elite waters.

    1. Re:My sentiments exactly... by Qzukk · · Score: 2

      "Normal" difficulty seemed like Easy Mode

      Yeah, that seems to be about right. I can't even imagine what Casual mode must be like. I started my first character on Normal, got through a few dungeons, hit level 12 and realized I had never invested a single skill point. I was still playing an outlander with the original one point in that throwing skill, doing just fine. On top of that, everything short of boss battles couldn't even injure my pet. I'd watch my ferret run around, on fire, taking hits from all sorts of skeletons or whatever, and not even see a pixel of black in his bar.

      I'm thinking of just writing off the 2-3 hours I put in and starting over on Veteran, because honestly on Normal you really can just stand there and mash one button through all of the normal battles, or just not mash any buttons and let the pet take care of it (though it would take a while, pet damage output seems really low compared to defense, and both the pet and the enemy AI has ADD when it comes to attacking each other).

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    2. Re:My sentiments exactly... by Wizarth · · Score: 1

      Indeed, Normal is much too easy if you've played a game like this before.

      Veteran is still fairly easy in the first area (act?) but it does ramp up later on.

    3. Re:My sentiments exactly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want it to be artificially difficult, try not spending any of your skill points.

      I made it through act 1 on veteran hardcore, but I died to a champion lizard (the ones with petrifying gaze, I think they are called Basilisks?; it teleported and froze me and a couple minions finished me off) in the desert outside the act 2 town.

  10. Pedigree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The review forgot to mention that the creators of Diablo 2 left Blizzard North and Diablo 3 was made by a whole new crew. Granted those guys have some pedigree too, but not in the ARPG genre (Fallout, Total Annihilation, etc.). Several of the Blizzard North guys eventually worked their way around to Runic games, and TL 1 and 2 are both products of the guys who made Diablo 2.

    There's a reason TL 2 plays so well and is so friendly to players the way D2 was. I've often thought but never had proof of it until now: video games are an art and are about vision of the team leads. Programming is important, graphics are important, but those are technical aspects; gameplay is an art form and very dependent upon who is making the game, not what studio, or what graphics or technical aspects it has. No set of games have illustrated this point more clearly than the recent launches of D3 and TL2.

    1. Re:Pedigree by coldandcalculating · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's worth mentioning that the guy who did the music for D1 and D2 is also at Runic..

      Who can ever forget the reverberating guitar chord that welcomed you first into the world of Diablo?

    2. Re:Pedigree by twocows · · Score: 1

      This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2evIg-aYw8

      I admit, I also like it a lot. Some of the Act 2 music from D2 was really good, as well.

    3. Re:Pedigree by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can get the entire TL2 soundtrack for free here. I though that was a nice gift from the guys at Runic (makes me feel a bit better about the lifetime Hellgate subscription).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    4. Re:Pedigree by theArtificial · · Score: 1
      Thanks for the link, I'm a fan of the music. I know he also did the music for The Burning Crusade!

      (makes me feel a bit better about the lifetime Hellgate subscription).

      =(

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    5. Re:Pedigree by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      His name is Matt Uelman. He also did the music for Starcraft 1 and Broodwar. Who can ever forget that class Terran theme? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9wMRuJuYw

    6. Re:Pedigree by tim_darklighter · · Score: 1

      The D2 to D3 progression reminds me of Warcraft 3 to WoW - same world; different types of game. There are many other parallels between WoW and D3, like how the games don't "start" until max level, the prevalence of an AH, the always-on internet connection, etc.

      If D3 had not been billed as the sequel to D2, I think a lot of the hate would have been held back. Had they called it "World of Diablo" (or whatever), people may have realized that they were different types of game. For example, the skill system and crafting system in D3 are really neat ideas, but they aren't a logical successor to D2's mechanics.

      Torchlight 2 on the other hand is the spiritual sequel to D2: it feels like D2. Personally, Matt Uelman's ambient background music makes a huge difference to me in the "feels like D1/D2" respect.

      On a tangential note, I'm almost sad to say that Blizzard has pretty much killed all three of their franchises for me: WoW is boring and no Warcraft 3 sequel is in sight; SC2 single player campaigns are just there to subsidize the multiplayer (I'm not paying $60 again for one campaign); and now Diablo feels like WoW. Thankfully there will always be interesting new games and companies to supplant (or at least sidestep) the juggernauts.

    7. Re:Pedigree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a reason why some folks call D3 World of Diablo. And I totally agree with you about Blizzard killing the WC, SC and D franchises. I'll give D3 a shot when they release the free to play starter edition, but I'm not optimitistic. The folks that knew how those series work had already left by the time those last projects started to be developed.

      And in the case of SC, it actually ruined the original game for me. I've gone back and tried to play it, but the magic isn't there anymore. Had SC2 been released 8 years earlier, it would have been acceptable. But, there's just been way too much innovation in the meantime to accept what's basically an esport mega expansion pack.

      TL2 is however awesome. I love the references like the Silence of the Lambs reference in the Stockade.

    8. Re:Pedigree by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      I use to love the D2 start music, as well as the dirge-full strings when entering Tristram.

      Now in D3 we get a fucking crow squawking every time at the login screen. :-/

    9. Re:Pedigree by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      There was a lot wrong with D2, and luckily Blizz didn't carry those features across to D3. BUT, there was also a LOT right with D2 and most/none of those made it across either :-/. I could start listing them, but then I'd show up whatever morons are left at Buzzard HQ that I know better what made the Diablo series so great than what's left of the cannibalised team there...and I'm just not like that (or Jay Wilson :).

    10. Re:Pedigree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least WoW is upfront about it - I can easily forgive an always-online, toplevel-heavy game if it's actually sold as such. :)

    11. Re:Pedigree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get the entire TL2 soundtrack for free here. I though that was a nice gift from the guys at Runic (makes me feel a bit better about the lifetime Hellgate subscription).

      FYI the whole soundtrack and the jewel case cover is included inside the game directory.

  11. Money money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At 20 bucks the game is just begging to be played by anyone with a little itch for isometric action rpgs. It is smooth, crisp, and handles well. Sure, Diablo III has more "stuff" and motion videos and other things, but given the price difference between the games you have to wonder where Blizzard put all that extra money (real money trading, anyone?).

    Also, I was one of those that grabbed D3 hook line and sinker. The first game was fun, the second was pretty great, and the third.. it was okay. When I could play - because the servers would crash and lock me out of my single player game. I suppose most of us didn't read the fine print to notice we actually bought an MMO except without the whole.. MM part of it.

    In any case, just go buy it. It is the price of a good cut of steak and like a good steak, the game is delicious.

    (PS: Real men don't use A-1.)

  12. Good deal for $20 by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2, Informative

    I haven't played D3, but I've played TL1 and D2, and I've now played through TL2.

    Cons: In my opinion, the storytelling of TL2 is somewhat less compelling and expansive than was that of D2. Also, the D2 had good cinematics, and most (all?) of its narration was recorded voices, rather than just text that you have to read.

    Pros: Lots of fun, low hardware requirements, good randomization of maps. Fun approach to playing random maps after you beat the game (I'm not going to spoil it.) No DRM.

    And last but not least, it's a great entertainment value for $20. Money very well in my case. From the reviews, I don't think I would have considered $60 for D3 to be a worthwhile purchase.

    1. Re:Good deal for $20 by ifrag · · Score: 1

      Cons: In my opinion, the storytelling of TL2 is somewhat less compelling and expansive than was that of D2.

      Agree, the bar has been set pretty low on the story, I'm only vaguely paying any attention to it myself. But at least you can tell they put their focus in on the game play. With where it's at, I'd almost prefer the story to be scaled back even more, with just some brief hand waving about go forth and strike down evil.

      Most rogue-likes never even bothered with it at all. And if you didn't dig through the readme files or hear it from someone, the only obvious thing was "we need to go deeper" and yet people still played the hell out of those and had a great time of it.

      --
      Fear is the mind killer.
    2. Re:Good deal for $20 by DudemanX · · Score: 1

      Conversely the story in Diablo 3 is terrible. The fact that you're beaten over the head with it on each play through only makes it more annoying. Diablo 3 would be a much better game if the bad story wasn't always in your way.

      Azmodan is Baghdad Bob.

    3. Re:Good deal for $20 by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      I agree. Diablo3 would've been much better with randomized maps + free roam, not the story mode restriction that they force on you. The story mode really ruined multiplayer aswell, it's one of the main reasons why no one plays d3 multiplayer.

      Diablo 3 got it wrong in every department, and Torchlight 2 got it right. Torchlight 2 has randomized maps, free roam, and a multiplayer lobby system with named games! Pretty much everything that Diablo 2 had that Diablo3 should've had...

    4. Re:Good deal for $20 by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      ROFL! Never mind that fact that even Ghom is far harder in Inferno than him.

      <ESC> and <spacebar> are your best friends on 2nd & subsequent run-throughs of D3.

  13. Debunked? No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've spent time reading people's meager, whiny complaints about this gift of the gods that has been put on sale for a mere twenty dollars. Sure, you can only reallocate the last three skill points you've spent, and you can't redo all your stats and skills once you're leveled up. That's so that you learn from your mistakes and go back and play the game again. There's no one to hold your hand to find the area where the quest is at. There's a marker on your map for you to aim for, and that's more than any player deserves. The quests are still rather simplistic, and of the form to go kill someone or a group of someones, or to collect a thing, or a group of things. Again, the quests are merely a vehicle to get you into new areas. If you happen to kill the guy that advances the plot, that's a bonus. If you stop to talk to an NPC, the world does not stop for you. Enemies will continue to attack you as you choose your quest reward, because you were too stupid to clear out the area of any possible threats before sitting down to talk. I think I've now sufficiently debunked any negative points I've read in other reviews

    No you haven't, because "you're dumb" is not a refutation.

    1. Re:Debunked? No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, his 'debunking' sounded like nothing but whiny nerd rage. "WAAAAAH people have different opinions! How dare they!"

      Hey CowboyNeal, go lose some weight, fatty.

  14. Buyer Beware by XiaoMing · · Score: 0, Troll

    There's one thing OP doesn't mention, and TBH I think it's worth noting:

    It's a pretty lonely game with a garbage multiplayer matchmaking setup/interface. One of the best things about Diablo II was getting online in super filled games and playing through with a huge group of people (who weren't necessarily your friends), while desperately trying to stack auras, barbarian yells, etc. trying to survive an everything-immune rakanishu.

    But as with BL2, Torchlight doesn't put any time/effort/funding into providing/maintaining any form of centralized multiplayer servers (everything is P2P), and I think that's one thing that makes them fall very, very short of being a "Diablo Clone (with guns!)" if you've even remotely associated Diablo (II+) with multiplayer.

    Also, to all the whiners bitching about b.net DLC, it's a fucking PITA to accidentally overwrite one set of local files with another if you play from any more than one location, or play with a character from 3 hours ago, because Steam servers don't want to update, or you didn't "log in" a second time while in-game just to update your character, or your computer you played on earlier went to sleep rather than properly quitting steam to upload your local files to teh cl0ud.

    For disclosure, I prepaid for BL2 (the DLC pack was worthless about 30 minutes into the game, and now the game's already at half of what I paid for in two weeks of release), was disappointed and purchased TL2, and now regret being $60 in the hole.

    1. Re:Buyer Beware by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Oh look. Another whiny D2JSP closed-server troll getting his little bot-farming panties in a twist that TL2 wasn't designed for them to be able to spam their little "black market" crap.

      At least they're hitting /. now, instead of focus-fire on the Runic forums...

  15. Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by ant-1 · · Score: 2

    This is not really a comment, more of a question: wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline? I'm not really familiar with the genre, I only played like three D2 sessions and no torchlight so don't bash me for my ignorance but isn't it exactly the same here ?

    What is gonna prevent my neighbor's kid from hacking the sandworm-slaying-axe-of-madness and bringing it online to cut me in half? Damn kid, always playing on my lawn instead of grinding his gear like a real man.

    1. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by psycho12345 · · Score: 2

      It is. Basically since it is fully moddable with no server of any kind really (the game runs P2P), there is nothing stopping people from changing their char to anything. Runic did already disable console commands in multiplayer and do have a way to show that you are using a modded char, but since everything is client side, that will almost certainly be bypassed. Basically, TL2 and D3 took the 2 halves of D2 game play and went full bore in opposite directions. TL2 has no secure server of any kind, whereas D3 is only that. Both gain some advantages from that but they also emphasize the disadvantages. TL2 will never have any large scale anything, there is 0 point to PvP or trading with anyone, or with ladder seasons. The game pretty much is for solo play, LAN play and for small groups of trusted people. Otherwise it is no differnt then D2 Open B.net aka a Hackfest Free for All. D3 will obviously not have offline play and LAN, but for the most part, people can reasonably (not perfect of course) trade and (when they get it patched in) PvP.

    2. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline?

      Only the hackers played open b.net -- that lets you import your offline characters

      Most of the people played closed b.net -- the servers and game are 100% on Blizzard's server. It was more hack-resistant, but nothing is ever 100% hack-proof (due to lag).

      There was a bad bug where you could "fuse" items in closed b.net but that was fixed pretty fast. Duping bugs kept getting found due to the sheer determination of hackers wanting to understand and tear apart the client code. The game is mostly hack-free these days with 1.13; the biggest problem is the spam-bots which has almost completely killed the community. Everyone plays in private games. :-/

    3. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by Yosho · · Score: 2

      This is not really a comment, more of a question: wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline?

      That is a complaint, but not really a big one. There's a vocal minority that complains about it, but most people don't really care what other people do as long as it's not affecting their own game.

      What is gonna prevent my neighbor's kid from hacking the sandworm-slaying-axe-of-madness and bringing it online to cut me in half?

      For one, PVP is not only entirely consensual, you also have to enable the console and know the right command to enable it. It's impossible for somebody to attack you unless you both know how and consent to it.

      But that aside, if somebody jumps into your game with a level 100 character and starts one-shotting everything and you don't want them to, the solution is pretty easy: kick them out of your game and ban them. Problem solved.

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    4. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not really a comment, more of a question: wasn't the biggest complain about Diablo 2 the fact that it was wide open to cheating/hacking due to the fact that you could bring online the stuff you acquired offline?

      Not really, no. D2 is split into a number of different play modes: Single Player (SP), SP Hardcore (HC), LAN, LAN HC, Battle.net (bnet), bnet Ladder, bnet HC, and bnet HC Ladder. You can import SP characters to LAN games, but AFAIK (recently quit D2 to play Path of Exile) you could never import SP characters into bnet.

      So, the cheating/hacking was mitigated to an area where you *could* do that if you wanted to, because SP and LAN character data is stored locally. Of course there were other issues with Bnet, such as all the bots and spammers, but I digress.

      PS) There are some bnet exploits/cheats that I know of such as "perming" which was glitching cubed Ethereal armor to keep the math error applied. Glitch rushing, where you use a temporary character to advance the story-arc of a newbie in order to jump difficulty modes.

    5. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by lgw · · Score: 1

      but nothing is ever 100% hack-proof (due to lag).

      Why would lag enable (item-related) hacks? I know Blizzard games have had some duping hacks involving induced lag over the years, but that's just crappy code. As long as you don't trust your clients, there's just no opening for item-related hacks.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by afidel · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping TL2 will develop a community more like Neverwinter Nights where just because you can play with a modded character doesn't mean it'll be a hackfest. With the engine being so open we should see some interesting mods come out over the next year or two. The Steam version having a mod manager will probably help some in that regard.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    7. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Why would lag enable (item-related) hacks? I know Blizzard games have had some duping hacks involving induced lag over the years, but that's just crappy code.
      Agreed; but it did. Duping in Diablo 1 was trivial -- just by dropping items on the ground and picking them up fast.

      > As long as you don't trust your clients, there's just no opening for item-related hacks.
      In theory yes, in practice no. If you don't trust the client for anything you
      a) overload your servers
      b) introduce > 100 ms responses that players find unacceptable
      i.e.
      See Bungie's awesome networking talk on "I Shot You First"
      http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014345/I-Shot-You-First-Networking

    8. Re:Same player in local and multiplayer: cheating? by lgw · · Score: 1

      All of which is important for frits person shooters. None of which is even relevent for inventory management. These duping probkems only exist because developers get locked into certain ways on thinking, even when that's inappropriate to the problem at hand. Processeing invetory transacitos without error is not only solvable, it's well-solved.

      Nothing processes transactions faster than a (stock market style) exchange. They do this incredibly fast, and far more efficiently than game servers per server, without any duping or similar silly errors - ever.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  16. Diablo 3 is fine. by Petersko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I got my $60 out of it, and so did almost everybody who's bitching about it. I don't know where anybody got this idea that their one-time payment (that has become progressively cheaper as it failed to increase with inflation) should give them hundreds of hours of entertainment.

    If you check your played time and it's over 100 hours, maybe you should stop whining about how crappy you think it is, because clearly your bitchy brain and your gaming brain are having an argument.

    Actually, the old man in me wishes the entire gaming community would benefit from a complete media blackout when it comes to video games. Then they can buy a game without expectations, enjoy it without absorbing the negative crap from other gamers, and be satisfied.

    1. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Feneban · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think the point was getting your $60 worth. D3 was in "development" for 10 years and it ended up having the main feature ended up being the Real Money Auction House. For the time that Blizzard invested in the game, one would expect more than 4 Act's of similar looking tilesets and models. I've only played through 2.5 Acts of Torchlight 2 and I'm pretty sure I've seen at least twice the models that D3 had. I was able to sell $40 worth of gear on the RMAH to at least get some of my money back on D3.

    2. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sold one item for $175. I would say that D3 is now the best game I've ever owned for that. Albeit they charge 15% transfer free and on top of that another 15% transfer to paypal so it ended up only being $150 in the end. Pretty brutal transaction fees but worth it in the end. My game is now free.

    3. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by steelfood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What? Where did money and hours of gameplay come into this? Sure, you spent $60 (not to mention it used to be $30 for a decent game) and you expect $60 worth of gameplay. But I don't think that was ever the gripe about Diablo 3.

      Diablo 3 cannot be played offline.

      Diablo 3 cannot be played without a Battle.net account.

      Diablo 3 cannot be played without Blizzard's nod each time.

      Diablo 3 will stop working mid-way through playing if your connection to Blizzard's servers fail.

      What does hours of gameplay have to do with anything when the gripe is about purchasing a product and not be able to play with it whenever, wherever, and however.

      As far as we're concerned, that's not what we define as buying a game, at least not to us pre-MMO generation gamers.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    4. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by marcop · · Score: 2

      I agree with some of what you mention, but my biggest gripe about D3 is that it wasn't fun. It seemed more like a job than a game. The AH is so heavily integrated that I was spending way too much time in the AH trying to get a good item because the drops generally sucked.

      I've only played a couple hours of TL2 so far and I like it for the price. It is fun so far. I like the D2/D3 atmosphere better. D2/D3 had better storytelling and voice acting. It made the game more immersive. TL2 has some of these, but it could have had more.

      There are some elements of TL2 that are really cool. I really liked the gold mine (can't remember the name). Can't wait to see what more this game has to offer.

      IMO, so far, D2 is the best of the three. With more time perhaps TL2 may outshine it.

    5. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by shaunbr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's definitely a lot of unfounded hate for Diablo 3. It's certainly not Diablo 2, but I got my money's worth out of it.

      The main problem with Diablo 3 is the auction house. Not even the RMAH - just the auction house in general. The main draw to an ARPG, and pretty much the entire endgame, is farming for better loot. In Diablo 2, you had to find all the good gear yourself, or make an effort to seek out other people to trade with. There was an entire rune-based economy that facilitated the trades, but you still had to go to the effort to set prices, find willing buyers/sellers, and complete the transaction.

      With the Diablo 3 auction house, any piece of gear that you could possibly think of - and almost certainly better than any piece you'll ever find on your own - is available to buy with your gold. Some of these items cost next to nothing because the market is so flooded with gear. Why bother grinding for loot when you can get stuff that's so much better so easily? The auction house removed the one major motivator to keep playing like we all did in Diablo 2 - the hope for better loot on whatever you happened to kill next. Without that sense of excitement, there's really no point in playing long term.

    6. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      The problem Blizzard faced with Diablo 3 is that you cant have the real money auction house with a game playable offline. The items need to be controlled by blizzard via their servers.

      A lot of people say blizzard took away offline play because of DRM, but thats not the case. Torchlight 2 is a FAR better game, but all of the items are hackable and so are your characters

    7. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by shaunbr · · Score: 1

      Who the hell would pay $5, let alone $175, for a piece of virtual gear in a game like Diablo 3? There's a sucker born every minute...

      (Not that I'd complain about taking such a sucker's money - I'd be rubbing my hands in glee if someone chose to pay as much for an item of mine as they did for yours.)

    8. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Talderas · · Score: 0

      I've made over $500 off of Diablo 3 after their tax.

      Best. Game. Ever.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    9. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sold about $150 worth of stuff, the big ones being a nice legendary helm on the release night of 1.0.4 and plans to make level 61 legendary pants. With that being said it's kind of hard for me to talk badly about D3 since I'm +$90.

      Bought TL2 and even after only putting 2-3 hours into it, I'm already starting to get bored. I think Blizzard ruined me and now I'm going to have to make money in order to game

    10. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone who would rather work (payment amount / earnings per hour) number of hours and have fun blowing stuff up for an hour instead of grinding for greater than random_number*(payment amount / earnings per hour) hours to get to the same place that would allow them to blow up stuff for an hour?

    11. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by lgw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      $500? After how many total hours of D3 gaming? Is this more than minimum wage where you live?

      Gaming because it's fun is one thing, but as a way to make money it's not at all impressive, at least in most places.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    12. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by MrTester · · Score: 2

      Yeah! I agree! 100%.
      I just wish there was some way to not go out and read reviews of games that I want to buy...

    13. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Clsid · · Score: 1

      I totally agree with you. I played the demo of Torchlight 2 and while it's fun, the intensity of the battles is no match for what you find on Diablo 3. Matt Uelmen on the other hand is Torchlight's biggest asset IMHO.

      In any case, I think you can enjoy both games. Maybe Diablo 3 isn't what people expected of a Diablo 2 successor but it still is a great game on its own. It's not like the Diablo series were the greatest game ever for me since I'm more of an RTS fan and I would take a Dark Reign sequel over Diablo any day.

    14. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      I played the demo of Torchlight 2 and while it's fun, the intensity of the battles is no match for what you find on Diablo 3.

      Are you serious? The boss fights in Diablo 3 were a joke. The only one that was half decent was Belial. The boss fights in TL2 are far more intricate, and if you play on Veteran or Elite difficulty the bosses are extremely challenging.

    15. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The problem Blizzard faced with Diablo 3 is that you cant have the real money auction house with a game playable offline.

      Of course you can. If that was your concern, then you could make items acquired during offline play wouldn't be auctionable.

      A lot of people say blizzard took away offline play because of DRM, but thats not the case.

      They started down this path with Starcraft II, and it's rather naive to think DRM wasn't their #1 motivation.

    16. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I don't know where anybody got this idea that their one-time payment should give them hundreds of hours of entertainment.

      I think they probably got that idea from past experiences where their one-time payment got them hundreds of hours of entertainment. I could be wrong though.

      I can't even guess how many hundreds of hours I've put into Fallout, Fallout 2, Diablo, Diablo 2, etc. Shit, I have over 400 hours in Skyrim, and that's been out for less than a year. Last night I was playing through a heavily-modded Fallout: New Vegas again. I've played through both Fallout 3 and Borderlands with at least 3 characters each. I've installed and played my original copies of Fallout and Fallout 2 on Windows 7. Just last month I followed this guide and played the original Warcraft for a few days. Within the past 2 years I installed Ultima 7 again and played that for a while. There's nothing wrong with getting ridiculous amounts of playing time from new and old games. At least, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that.

      Anyway, that's probably where people get those wacky ideas from.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    17. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      To add to the above, that list barely scratches the surface. I didn't even mention Doom, Doom 2, Doom 3 (played that a couple months ago again), Far Cry, Far Cry 2, Crysis, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, Descent, Freespace 1 and 2, Freelancer, the X-series, etc etc etc etc. I've spent hundreds of hours in each of those games over several playthroughs (where applicable) over an extended period. I am a nerd. And I have no girlfriend. But I sure as hell get my money's worth out of my games. I also won't buy Diablo 3. When I get home tonight I'll be buying Torchlight 2.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    18. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 2

      I concur. I cannot help but be amazed at the number of people who think that Blizzard killed their puppies or something. I mean, just look at this thing... "Gift of the gods?" "The new best game ever?" I think Borderlands 2 is probably the game of the year, but I don't think anyone's granted it sainthood yet.

      And then there's this: Sure, you can only reallocate the last three skill points you've spent, and you can't redo all your stats and skills once you're leveled up. That's so that you learn from your mistakes and go back and play the game again. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I'm halfway through Borderlands 2. I want to try Guild Wars 2 when I'm done. I have a double-digit list of games from Steam sales that I haven't gotten around to, including wanting to finish SpaceChem. Do not tell me that it's a bonus for me to have to play a game multiple times in order to figure out what works. That is goddamned Stockholm Syndrome, and I have other things I could be doing.

      I played Diablo 3. I beat inferno with my monk before paragon levels were introduced. I had a full set of good gear, but I stuck with tankier stuff and mostly ignored damage so that I wouldn't need millions of gold in order to buy what I needed. This meant that I couldn't cruise through the last area and had to do a ton of kiting and positioning, but it also meant the last playthrough was a genuine challenge, and I enjoyed the trying to keep up valor stacks while trudging my way through heaven.

      D3 was not the game of the year. The online issues were horrible. The crafting system was unnecessary for what it was. The difficulty of inferno was enjoyable for me since I got what I wanted from the AH, but it also required people to stalk the AH since the just-good gear that they got from drops wasn't enough to go on. But it was also a game that uniquely dared to let me mix and match and try out twenty-five different skills to my heart's content, to find things that I liked or to just experiment when I got bored of one path, and you wouldn't have to torture me to say I liked what I played.

      I will probably buy Torchlight 2 on the winter sale, and then I'll wait until there's a respec mod for cheaters before I turn it on. I want to not be angry about this - I honestly have no issue with games existing for people who are not me. You want a game based on oldschool skill trees and locked-in levelling? Hey, go have fun. But I personally can't play another game where I click the same skill a billion times without getting to try out anything else, only to have to quit at level 30 because the choices I made at level 20 made me too weak to progress further, and there's something that gets under my skin about what seems to be a whole political movement that thinks that makes me a socialist.

      --
      Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
    19. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Someone who would rather work (payment amount / earnings per hour) number of hours and have fun blowing stuff up for an hour instead of grinding for greater than random_number*(payment amount / earnings per hour) hours to get to the same place that would allow them to blow up stuff for an hour?

      Diablo style games are a random number generator grind through near infinite swarms of mobs and countless repetitive dungeons. The grind is the game. If you enjoy the endless mindless clickfest with the swathe of corposes and the occasional piece of loot then play on. If not, then play something else.

      But paying $60 for diablo 3 so you can pay someone else to play it for you because you don't actually enjoy playing diablo 3 is pretty much the absolute pinnacle of stupid.

      The game is not going to be any different with purchased loot. There is no "grind to get somewhere good"... you just grind to get to a new place to grind. Its not an MMO where all the interesting content is at "max level". Its randomly generated dungeons all they way up.

    20. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Diablo 3 will become unplayable if your internet connection to those servers is too laggy.

      I tried the open beta, through my ISP it was a slideshow where I didn't know if I was alive or dead. Admittedly a few tweaks to their QOS rules probably sorted everything all out for the games release, but why should I have to risk dieing due to lag in a single player game?

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    21. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      respec console command. shows online that you used it, but doesnt ban you

    22. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could barely get to level 10 in the beta ... it was just dull as hell to me...... TL2 on the other hand is a blast.... dunno different strokes for different folks i guess.

    23. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Clsid · · Score: 1

      I agree that the boss fights are a joke, but I hope you agree with me that the general hack and slash is way better in Diablo 3 than it is in Torchlight. Case in point: Barbarian vs. Engineer.

      I would end up paying for Torchlight just to support those guys, since they are the original team. But the graphics style reminds me a lot of Battlefield Heroes which I don't find too appealing. The most cartoony I can go is with WoW, and after playing Guild Wars 2 even that pales in comparison. So I truly mean it when I say that if you make me pick one of the two, DRM and all I would choose Diablo 3.

    24. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Easier: Create a throwaway character and spawn the RESPECPOTION item. Put the item in the shared stash and delete the flagged throwaway. You get your respec, and no flag.

      The flag was, as someone else on the Runic forums put it, a "well-intentioned mistake."

    25. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      It really isn't though, as the only lock on skills is level. Thus, if you respec a max level character, you CAN make extremely unbalanced builds.

    26. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Where did money and hours of gameplay come into this?

      The primary purpose of video games is to pay money in return for entertainment (gameplay), which is mainly measured in quality (fun) and quantity (hours)

      You speak of pre-mmo generation gamers. Well, one of the oldest mantras is that gameplay is king. So really there is no question of "where did gameplay come into this". It is always there, and is always the most important thing

      DLCs, DRMs, always online single player, F2P... all those aren't trivial issues mind you, but they deal more with FOSS principles and perhaps consumer rights and freedoms (though many of you already didn't buy D3, so I don't think your rights and freedoms are in any danger) than actual gameplay issues (well, always online affects gameplay with lag and such, but that issue can be addressed with better hardware without altering the gameplay itself)

      Call me an elitist purist and no offense, but I don't think you're a "pre mmo generation gamer" as much as you are an FOSS/freedom/consumer-rights advocate who happens to play games.

      Now, I'm not saying D3's gameplay is the greatest thing ever. I (and GP) are just saying say D3 - as a game - is not all that bad.

    27. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Te flaw with your assessment is that I was playing the game to make money, which I was not. Making money is a pleasant side effect.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    28. Re:Diablo 3 is fine. by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Who cares? The game isn't, and was never intended to be, "balanced," and this idiotic flagging crap was done as an attempt to appease the anti-modding crybabies who've spammed the forums non-stop without actually impacting any of the other players (the "well-intentioned").

      That it's trivial to work around and, thus, useless is only one half of the "mistake" part: the other being that the aforementioned crybabies did not, of course, shut up, and are still demanding more and more "inches" on top of the unproductive miles they've already been given.

  17. Whoever Modded This Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Needs their fucking head examined. Blizzard implements the shittiest crafting "systems." I'd rather have no crafting than a bastardized version that costs you more in game money and resources than what you get out of it!

    1. Re:Whoever Modded This Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh, did you not look at the comment you were talking about? He wasn't saying Blizzard's crafting systems were good, he was saying that you don't need to copy/paste from Blizzard to make a good crafting system. I think maybe you need your "fucking head examined." Or at least your eyes.

  18. Come on.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you really just complain that the story is an issue where the hero from the previous game all of a sudden is the bad guy because his body was taken over and the town ravaged? Right after you say diablo 2 is the best game ever? Where the story is you are chasing the fucker from the first game who at the end shoved the bad guys soulstone into his forehead? really? Did you forget the part in diablo 2 where you go back to the ruined tristam? REALLY?

  19. Re:A video flick with included masturbation button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I require that my bananas taste like steak. That is to say, I require them to be steak -- you know, brown and meaty?

    Observe the living contradiction that is hipstanerd, who spends his time playing video games, but /only/ the brainy ones. When reviewing things, you must evaluate them from perspective of what they were trying to accomplish, not whether they fulfilled the limits of your dreams and desires. So it lacks a deep and engaging plot, the characters have no back stories, and there are no choices to make to define your player's charater. That's not what it set out to do, so it didn't fail in their implementation. Does it bring quest after quest of orgiastic click fests with a modicum of strategy, induced by hordes of enemies with varying strengths and weaknesses that test how well we've designed our characters with the limited choices given? Yeah, I guess. Did it do that well? Oh, I totally think so.

    Bananas aren't liked by everyone, but they are what they are. You would have to completely misunderstand that most basic of premises to criticize them for not being something else entirely.

  20. Biased review by Dunge · · Score: 0

    This is a bit exaggerated. Best game ever? Just looking at the graphics make me want to puke.

    1. Re:Biased review by shaunbr · · Score: 1

      Graphics are not my main consideration when looking for a good game to play, and I question the intelligence of anyone who considers the quality of the graphics above anything else.

      Good graphics can make a game with solid gameplay even better. However, no amount of graphical polish is going to make up for shitty gameplay. I'll take a good roguelike over a game like Final Fantasy XIII any day.

  21. Next to WoW by Brian+Feldman · · Score: 1

    This is the most addictive RPG I have played in my life. I really love the rapid fire pace of the gear and specialization point systems and I only have one real complaint with the combat: it can be pretty hard to actually get your character moving somewhere instead of attacking once you are mostly-surrounded. Cheap deaths are pretty frustrating and the game mechanics are solid but not perfect.

    --
    Brian Fundakowski Feldman
    1. Re:Next to WoW by kevkingofthesea · · Score: 2

      There's actually a key (bound to tilde ~ by default) that will move you towards where your cursor is regardless of enemies.

    2. Re:Next to WoW by Brian+Feldman · · Score: 1

      Great tip! I need to check out all the keys I haven't looked at; thank you!

      --
      Brian Fundakowski Feldman
  22. Wrong comparison Path of Exile is the game to best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What Torchlight 2 should be compared against is Path of Exile, which is what D3 ought to have been. It's nearing open beta now, with the odd f2p weekend, so I'd highly recommend anyone who was into D2 to check it out.

  23. D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 0

    Early criticism of D3 are valid, but those are a thing of the past. D3 will grow and continue to improve and enjoy a much larger, more involved community and trading market than TL2 ever will. And the new changes around the corner in 1.05 are a vast step in the right direction.

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    1. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Early criticism of D3 are valid, but those are a thing of the past.

      No they aren't.

      The core game design is fucking retarded. The gear upgrade path is market based. In some sense its much more efficient to gear up in D3 by playing "auction house trader" than "hack and slash dungeon crawler".

      That's fine if you -want- to play a trading game. But if that's what you want, play EVE or something that actually does a good job of it.

      D3 is a lousy ARPG.

      Its a half decent part time job though.

      larger .... trading market than TL2 ever will

      Well yeah, that's true, but you say it like its a good thing. I don't crawl dungeons so that I can sell things over the internet, to fund buying other things over the internet so that I can crawl dungeons more efficiently in order to sell even more things over the internet.

      I'm happy TL2 will never be that.

      Enjoy your part time job.

      And the new changes around the corner in 1.05 are a vast step in the right direction.

      D3 can't be fixed. They need to start over from scratch.

    2. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by PrimalChrome · · Score: 2

      What exactly are you basing this opinion on? Out of about 25 people, with the exception of ONE person, everyone I know that purchased D3 has stopped playing it. Their reasons span the full spectrum of the howling you read online...but all of them stem from "it really isn't that fun." If you listen to any gaming podcasts or keep up with any non-blizzard, non-fanboi forums, you will read the exact same story time and time again.

      D3 probably sold 100x the copies of T2 due to fabricated hype, WoW fanbois, and D2 fans hoping to continue the wonderful replayability that they experienced with the first two games. Now, like so many other big budget games that rely on hype and flash to line the pockets of their parent corporation.....the players have fled in droves. Yes, D3 will probably have an overall larger community. Yes, they will be rabid. Continue to grow....no, the numbers don't lie there. But more involved? Probably not. All it will take are a few decent groups modding T2 and you will see long term and continued enthusiastic support for the game that could eclipse D3.

      T2 is the worthy successor to the D1/D2 legacy.

    3. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      And the new changes around the corner in 1.05 are a vast step in the right direction.

      What do you mean, they're moving all of the processing from a central server to the local PC? Because that's the only direction they can take with that game which would even make me consider looking at it to start to think about purchasing it during some sale or something. Any other step is actually a "sidestep".

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    4. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by bfandreas · · Score: 3, Informative

      D3 is not D2 and won't be saved from ruin until the dev team learns a couple of fundamental things they could have learned from D2 which at release was also a completely different game from what it became the following 5 years.

      1) An ARPG lives and dies by its pace and responsiveness. Having to skip cut-scenes, the sheer amount of crowd control the player character is subjected to and the slow movement speed is a complete antithesis of what an ARPG is supposed to be.

      2) Even tho the original D2 devs also hated it the most popular feature of patch 1.10 of D2 was the inclusion of cross-class skills. The player loved it, the devs hated it. The D3 team permanently shut that door by including a non-mana based resource system. They can not pull this off without doing a major revamp of the game.

      3) The sheer amount of handholding that's going on in D3 boggles the mind. D2 and torchlight limit you by level and stat points in what loot you can wear. D3 limits you by class. Want to play a DH with a fat 2hander for whatever inane reason you can come up with? Sorry, you can't. Want to play a completely dex based barbarian with a crossbow? Nope. 'Do as thou wilt' was replaced with 'because we say so'. You want to be a melee WD? Well, only the classic melee characters get a flat 30% melee incoming damage reduction.

      4) Their reliance on a completely gold based economy is stupid. Nobody ever managed to pull off an interesting gold based economy. Either it works somewhat(as D3's does) and is completely boring or it doesn't and becomes a nuisance. This may sound like a weak point but what the gold based, AH centric economy does is it doesn't encourage bartering and trading. This was a major community builder. There were a LOT of successful websites/forums that started out as barter towns, grew into real communities and kept D2 going way beyond its due-date. D3 is an anonymous hodge-podge.

      5) Character progression is non-existant in D3 or beyond frustrating. It is not unreasonable to expect to be able to finish the game on inferno difficulty with only what you picked up yourself within 100 in-game hours. That should be the yard-stick. The goal of the grind-fest should be mindles mass murder of unsuspecting demons to blow off steam or to gather loot to be even more efficient in said mass murder or to gear up twinks with a silly character concept. But at no point should you feel slow and gimped. Inferno mode is completely inaccessible.

      6) At release and at the moment the game screams 'we haven't thought this through'. The 30% flat incoming damage reduction of monks and barbs say 'we haven't tuned the game properly'. The auction house ui with only 3 filters for 6 possible properties on rares made the AH next to unusable. Increased incoming damage in multi player games in an already overtuned game made grouping unattractive. The crafting system made you broke if you weren't very, very clever using it. The very rare legendaries were completely unviable on inferno mode(especially the weapons). The damage scaling in inferno is completely off. They advertised the game for PvP(god knows why) and they still haven't delivered.

      7) Tying real money to gear limits what they can do to improve the game. Once real money has changed hands for loot you can't reasonably nerf or buff stuff that has been sold without getting yourself in real hot water. And I sincerely doubt their RMAH cut is enough to cover the financial, legal and PR headache that follows.

      I'm sorry, but the team that made D3 didn't take a look at what made D2 the game of the decade and only added supreficial improvements. If they don't learn that their approach to D3 was completely off then they will not be able to salvage it whatsoever. The whole game feels like the core mechanics were designed by the Blizzard B-Team. Art and music is wonderful, tho. But at the moment it is a polished turd.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    5. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by bertok · · Score: 1

      The core game design is fucking retarded. The gear upgrade path is market based. In some sense its much more efficient to gear up in D3 by playing "auction house trader" than "hack and slash dungeon crawler".

      One thing that I haven't seen too many reviews cover is that auction houses ruin the sense of discovery or surprise when you find a new item, particularly unique items. In TL2, when I find a unique drop, it's like opening a Christmas present. With D3, it's like they showed me everyone's presents before putting them into the boxes. Sure, I don't know which present is in which box, but the surprise isn't quite the same, you know?

      In TL2, I don't know what the maximum weapon DPS is. I don't know what modifiers are possible. I don't know how many sockets something can have. I don't know what socketables exist.

      I like it that way!

    6. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On what do you based the idea that D3 will grow and improve? D2 was patched for years afterwards, but mostly rebalancing and bug fixes. And mods were done without Blizzard approval and sometimes require an older version which you can't patch in order to run.

      TL2 OTOH has mod tools available so that the fans can continue to mod it until such a time as the game engine no longer runs on their OS of choice. Seems pretty clear to me how this ultimately ends. What's more, I think you'll find in the near future that TL2 sales will continue or even grow as time goes by whereas D3 has already peaked in terms of interest.

    7. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

      Tell that to my account. Out of my home town during the battle.net hack, my account was comprimised. I come back, my account is shut down. $60, poof, gone. Fuck blizzard and the high horse they rode in on.

    8. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      Agree with most of that, except for:

      2) Skill synergies in 1.10 were a poorly veiled attempt to push ppl into multiplayer & in effect over to WoW, which certainly wasn't subtle nor appreciated (long with that BS Warden filthware that destroyed online gaming with its lag!). If nothing else, it made Hell almost unplayable in single-player (apart from a couple very specific builds). Gone were tri-sorcy builds, versatile necros, druids & 99% of 3-tree builds that may not have been uber, but were at least *fun* & viable in Hell to some degree.

    9. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      It's not a high horse, but a cash cow - a much bigger, more powerful beast! ;)

    10. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Diablo 3 is getting better and better each patch that comes out.

      I bought the game when it came off and played with my wife. We pretty quickly reached Inferno, struggled to pass Act I in Inferno, which was way more challenging but still doable without grind, and hit the brick wall on Act II.

      The thing was we cannot could get better items to face act II in act I, so we ended up doing some Butcher runs, and after understanding that gave up. That because I will never use AH to advance on a game.

      Then Blizzard man up and understood what was wrong with the game and made Inferno a bit easier, and you being able to farm good items even on Act I. In a couple of few days, I was stuck on Act III but every time I played Act I or Act II to farm, at the end of the game session, I would feel like I improved a bit my character.

      Then Blizzard removed most of the most annoying affix on monsters, rage timers, hp recover to special mobs, etc... With that amount of nerfs I was able to end Inferno right way, face rolling every single monster. The game is no longer frustrating and it favors trying new builds.

      They've introduced so much, starting on paragorn levels and following with what is coming on next patch.

      The game has improved, a lot. And I was never forced to use AH at the end.

      Stop hating a game that is no close to what it was at the launch date.

    11. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> 7) Tying real money to gear limits what they can do to improve the game. Once real money has changed hands for loot you can't reasonably nerf or buff stuff that has been sold without getting yourself in real hot water. And I sincerely doubt their RMAH cut is enough to cover the financial, legal and PR headache that follows.

      Actually, they did this shortly after the real money AH was released when they nerfed Attack Speed increases across all items (by a significant margin).

    12. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      He said cross-class, as in barbarians with werewolf, all classes with teleport, assassins with whirlwind.

      As for synergies, they had the massive upside that you didn't have to limp along with a level 20 character and 10 unspent skill points, you could invest in early skills that boost your planned end-game ones. While I agree they could have balanced the classes a little better, I think it was a good move overall. Tri-sorcs might be fun but you get a lot more variety of builds when some can be focused on one skill and 4 synergies, or balancing the synergy investment for multiple main skills. If 20 points was all it took to max out any skill, it would be hard to balance the game and make most skills viable.

      Of course, every feature will be loved or hated based on your play style, synergies just happened to fit mine.

    13. Re:D3 was rushed, but is aging well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, every feature will be loved or hated based on your play style, synergies just happened to fit mine.

      Amusingly, if somebody dares to use that argument for D3, they'd be chewed out as being crazy.

      Disclosure: haven't bought either, I'm amused at the bias

  24. Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been playing Torchlight 2 for a few days now, and right away I knew this was the better game. The art style is not better because its cartoony, its better because its designed by better artists, who really understand appeal, quality of animation, and design. This game not only looks better, its just more fun. Diablo 3 was a huge let down. Diablo 3 had 1 interesting boss battle and it wasnt the final Diablo battle, which was a complete fucking disaster artistically. I mean Blizzard should redo the end of the game so that there actually is a climax and a resolve. Diablo 3 is so uneventful, and so poorly designed artistically. I'll give Blizzard a nod for a good item system, auction house, and decent shading and lighting but overall Torchilight 2 makes blizzard look like amateurs.

    Even the spells, and abilities all look better, more colorful, better particles, better everything. Torchlight 2 just feels right. And hey its 6 player!

    Torchlight 2 is the best $20s you can spend on games right now. Torchlight 2 is so good, you will feel ripped off by Diablo 3.

    1. Re:Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the recent experiences with World of Warcraft, I'm thoroughly convinced that Blizzard *is* amateurish, now. Not necessarily that any person picked up off the street could do the jobs, but that the people who have the knowledge there don't necessarily have the talent to make it above average.

    2. Re:Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. by shaunbr · · Score: 1

      Even if Diablo 3 had better art design compared to Torchlight 2 (and I actually think it does, slightly), the very polished, fast paced gameplay of Torchlight 2 makes it the better game overall. By the time I stopped playing D3, it felt like work - I had to grind Inferno to get a chance at decent gear, but my existing gear wasn't good enough to make surviving in Inferno possible. Even when I found gear, the stuff on the auction house was significantly better anyway. Playing Torchlight 2 doesn't feel like work, and the gear drops frequently enough that every kill, and even every broken urn, feels important.

    3. Re:Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

      Hey, I like the closing cinematic. Shades of US gubment vs tourism, with a splash of ID4 thrown in for good measure. Ahem.

    4. Re:Torchlight 2 is the better Diablo. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree, I play starcraft, and i find the people behind it are completely incompetent.

  25. Still like Path of Exile better, but it is good by clintre · · Score: 1

    I am definitely pretty happy with Torchlight 2 and definitely like it better than D3. Still prefer Path of Exile, despite it still being in closed beta. It is some much more like Diablo 2 than Diablo 3 in the dark style ARPG. I find TL2 still a bit watered down in what you can do. However it is a blast and the fact that it is easy to play via LAN with friends makes it a great addition. Choice is a good thing!

  26. Re:Wrong comparison Path of Exile is the game to b by shaunbr · · Score: 1

    What's with all the Path of Exile shills these days? It's just another shitty free-to-play game that will eventually be forced to switch to the same 'pay to win' model that nearly every other F2P game already has.

    With few exceptions, I want to know what a game is going to cost me to play *before* I start playing. Charge me up front - don't make me piss away a few bucks here or a few bucks there to get full enjoyment out of the experience.

  27. The last game i bought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last game i actually bought was diablo 2
    NEWSFLASH never heard a torchlight till now
    and i got an older pc
    YES guys my bad i tried it via piracy.....bit laggy but an adjustment and its all good
    NOW as i see a lot of the old D2 crew is at runic and cause this isnt a bad game at all and 20$ for no DRM and well when i get my disability check RUNIC is going to be the first game company i buy a game from since the box set of diablo 2

    NOW that editor thing hung up on me....ill retry but if it works , i might get a few buds and we might just sit about a month making levels for you all.....

    I'm about to also inside a month finally come into the modern age with a brand new 32gb RAM 8 core pc for YUP legit video animation....
    ya know i got wacky ideas and my thoughts is maybe ill create a few vids of my own d2 style and send em over free a charge ....
    who knows maybe in future torchlight three might get a more cinematic cut scene video stuffs going on....

    the fact is they did this aspect cheap cause its very very expensive to pay for software ( again going form welfare to disability and trying to get such for past 8 years in a legal fight which i won means they owe me a few bucks...thi sis me going legite on all the software that pirates help me learn with [and the way it should be try before you buy ] )

    the tings i liked...when you put on armour and weapons the guy puts them on...( one caveat the items all look same again this is where a blender guy, 3dsmax , lightwave, cinema 4d person could sit back and spend a month doing up variations....)

    hehe but for 20$ VERY NICE job
    ya know what they should do is offer out for license say for 2-3 grand and let you make your own game and resell it via there engine.
    sort of a unity way....

    saw borderlands on that lil pirate circle but i saw way way way way too many issues that ill stay away form even though those that get it to work also like it....

    AS you can see im honest and im the guy that really put his money where his mouth is and when the DRM really started flowing I STOPPED BUYING and in fact there are very very few games ill even pirate....

  28. Mac version by jsdcnet · · Score: 2

    I will buy this game the instant there is a native OS X version available. Loved the first one but I don't have any Windows machines any more and I'm not messing around with virtualization or whatever just for a game.

    --
    no longer working for cnet
    1. Re:Mac version by Mojo66 · · Score: 1

      +1

  29. oh on torchlight 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    only have 98 mega video on this computer.....
    thats the onboard , and many pcs that are out there shipped this way.....if they wanted to get low end sales they should have considered that ......128 meg video well and nvidia well um er we'll have to wait and see...

  30. Potion of Respec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and you can't redo all your stats and skills once you're leveled up.
    Not entirely true: The game has a 'Potion of Respec', which will let you reassign all your skillpoints. Admittedly, it's a mod (by Runic Games themselves), and vaguely mentioned in the end of the review. Bit of a shame that no more focus on the moddability of the game is being put in the review. With games getting less and less support for modifications, it's always good to see developers still catering to it (and as such making the lifespan of the games bigger).

    1. Re:Potion of Respec by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      that's for tl1. TL2 has a console command

    2. Re:Potion of Respec by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      ...and a very first mod for that has already been created.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    3. Re:Potion of Respec by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      There's also a respec potion in TL2. Until the mod kit comes out, you still need to use the console to spawn it, true, but you can spawn it on a scratch character and put it in the stash.

  31. Thanks, CowboyNeal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just picked up Humble Indy Bundle 6, didn't realize that it had both Torchlight AND Gratuitous Space Battles!

    - A long time anonymous coward

  32. I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by pecosdave · · Score: 4, Informative

    The first game I've tried was the original Torch Light. I like it so much so far it's the only game I've played out of the bundle, despite some of the others looking quite appealing.

    I've been playing it on my quite powerful desktop - but I noticed it had a "netbook mode" which for some reason was checked by default. I decided to put it on my netbook. For some reason it was NOT checked by default, but after clunking around with the graphics it is actually playable on my dual core Atom using Intel graphics on Kubuntu. I wouldn't exactly call it optimal and smooth, but it's still quite playable.

    I loved the original Diablo back in the day, I even bought the expansion pack for it. Then Diablo II came out and I enjoyed it for a while. Not too long, shortly afterwards Blizzard pissed me off by dragging a personal friend into a lawsuit over BNetD, they started suing a bunch of Unreal modders they had previously helped, and I quite dual-booting Windows as I found it to be a waste of hard drive space.

    In short Torchlight has offered me everything I liked about Diablo, it works on Linux, and I don't have the guilty sick to my stomach feeling that dealing with Blizzard products gives me.

    I can't tell you enough - buy the thing. Go get the bundle, and as soon as a Linux version of Torchlight 2 is released I'll go get it. My only complaint about the original Torchlight - it sometimes crashes when a new area gets loaded up. No big deal, I start the program and I'm standing exactly where I should have been without the crash so - yeah, it's great. Also gem hunting isn't quite as frustrating as it was in Diablo 2.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    1. Re:I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...]My only complaint about the original Torchlight - it sometimes crashes when a new area gets loaded up. No big deal, I start the program and I'm standing exactly where I should have been without the crash so - yeah, it's great.[...]

      If you haven't already, you might try installing the most recent version of the game available from Humble Bundle (updated on 2012-09-25). It fixed the crashing when loading new areas for me.

    2. Re:I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I refused to ever buy another Blizzard game ever after they went after bnetd, and have stuck by that. Some of us haven't forgotten, it was pretty disgusting to watch; I didn't know any of the guys involved personally, though.

    3. Re:I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Looks like it's not on Ubuntu Software Center yet.

      I've been playing with that for the most part, not sure if I truly like it or not, but at least it prevents the Microsoft style every application for itself style updates. My revision is torchlight 1.0+2012+09+18a-0ubuntu1 - I'm going to hold out for a bit see if they update it, I've been playing with the Software center system and I just want to see how it works out.I noticed Dustforce getting auto-updated yesterday - outside of Software Center - so it answered my lingering question about that. If they don't get to it I'm going straight to the page with your information in hand.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    4. Re:I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      On second thought I might not wait. Last night I got to a side quest of some sort that appeared after killing a boss - it's outside the path of the main dungeon crawl but linked to from it - my game kept crashing every time I loaded it - but not immediately like the bug I mentioned before, on this one I actually have to start walking around and scrolling the screen. I figured something was hung up, I shut down my system and went to bed. Starting it up this morning didn't fix anything, usually a reboot fixes anything....

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    5. Re:I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Crash fix found!

      Appears to work, at least for now - we'll see if it's a real fix. libtxc_dxtn needs to be installed, at least it seems to have worked when I did it on Kubuntu. Of course I've had this weird error clear itself up before.

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    6. Re:I recently bought Humble Bundle VI by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Meh, started crashing a couple of hours later again.

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  33. Re:A video flick with included masturbation button by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    You sound like you're the kind of person who doesn't enjoy the original Diablo games or lookalikes. If that's the case, why did you even bother with Torchlight? Its whole reason for existence is to cater to that segment of players.

  34. Fate by Ogive17 · · Score: 1

    I played Torchlight 2 a few years ago when it was called 'Fate'. Heck, they even had pets that changed form and had different attacks depending on the type of fish you fed them.

    Demo was ok... but since I've recently purchased Civ V expansion, Diablo 3 and Borderlands 2, I don't see the need for this game.

    --
    "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    1. Re:Fate by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Luckily for Runic the rest of the world feels a need for this game. I don't see a need for Borderlands 2 but I don't run around with a sock stuffed down my pants and advertise that as a universally accepted fact.
      I'm sorry if I have melted you, you beautiful and delicious and adorable and absolutely fabulous unique snowflake. Still love ya.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    2. Re:Fate by geminidomino · · Score: 2

      Not sure if trolling or just uninformed...

      Giving you the benefit of the doubt: The "need" for this game is that it's the game that Fate could have been, had WT not shat all over it.

      You see, "Fate's" designer, Travis Baldree, is one of the three people who formed Runic.

  35. Re:A video flick with included masturbation button by Nostromo21 · · Score: 0

    Every day, Mon-Fri, I have a banana, pear & apple, which my loving wife packs for me to take to work. Bananas are my favourite though.

  36. Too late, I already bought D3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..plus every other Diablo game including expansions... I have also bought TL2 though, and at this time I'm preferring TL2 over D3.

    I was tidying up my D3 characters last night; all 5 are now at the same quest in Inferno. What strikes me most is that D3 randomisation is so small that playing the same quest with a different character gets extremely tedious, especially when you're on your 20th run through :/

    Note: I didn't bother with the AH until around levels 52 or so in hell difficulty, when I found that I could buy some amazing gear with all the gold I had. Made Hell difficulty pretty easy, though Inferno is of course more difficult.
    TL2 I'm still on my first character and first play-through, so no idea how the randomisation will turn out - hopefully enough to keep me around to play all 4 classes through the different difficulty levels! Will have to look at the difficulty levels too sometime, may as well get straight into veteren or elite once I know how the acts progress

    I may be different from other players, but I only play for these games, so the D3 always online requirement can be quite a PITA. TL2 definitely wins in this area; the gameplay is also much faster and enjoyable than D3. I'm enjoying the graphics of TL2 as well, though D3 is quite impressive also in this area.

  37. Corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The temptation of the dark side of Diablo has corrupted Blizzard!

  38. Re:A video flick with included masturbation button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It isn't fun. But addictive. I don't even know myself why I keep clicking on monsters for hours. Crazy.

  39. Diablo 3 - Lord of FAIL by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 1

    I wanted to highlight fine points about Diablo 3's shortcomings but in the end I can only say this: I am buying torchlight 2. P.S. I hope the money coming in will make torchlight 3 the game Diablo never managed to be.

    --
    A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
  40. Re:A video flick with included masturbation button by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I enjoyed certain elements of them. It's possible to enjoy some/many aspects of a game and not actually enjoy the rest of it.

    The parts of Diablo 2 et. al. which were significant works of design and worth the experience were the parts which required tactical decision-making, choices and interaction. The parts of Diablo 2 et. al. which were unrepentant wastes of time were the parts where I wore down the buttons on my mouse trudging through what Blizzard hoped would be a wire-head's fantasy of rapidly-triggered endorphin release.

    Where "play" becomes "waste of time" is that part which doesn't require or desire a thinking entity to engage with.

  41. Re:A video flick with included masturbation button by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    Where "play" becomes "waste of time" is that part which doesn't require or desire a thinking entity to engage with.

    For you, perhaps this is so. There are plenty of people though who really want a game that literally works best when you've got a nerve going directly from your eyes to your trigger finger, missing the brain. Mind you, not all the time, but occasionally this kind of mindless action can be fun and relaxing.

  42. hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah its fun for a few hours but there is no dedicated server and multiplayer sucks

  43. New Game Plus Mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Torchlight 2's new game plus mode offers a greater challenge, similar to the Nightmare, Hell and Inferno advanced difficulty modes of the Diablo series.
    MMO-Play.com - Your Free MMO Game Connection!

  44. Skill reset by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a skill reset potion that exists in the game that let's you reset everything, not only the last 3 skills.