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Death of Printed Books May Have Been Exaggerated

New submitter razor88x writes "Although just 16% of Americans have purchased an e-book to date, the growth rate in sales of digital books is already dropping sharply. At the same time, sales of dedicated e-readers actually shrank in 2012, as people bought tablets instead. Meanwhile, printed books continue to be preferred over e-books by a wide majority of U.S. book readers. In his blog post Will Gutenberg Laugh Last?, writer Nicholas Carr draws on these statistics and others to argue that, contrary to predictions, printed books may continue to be the book's dominant form. 'We may be discovering,' he writes, 'that e-books are well suited to some types of books (like genre fiction) but not well suited to other types (like nonfiction and literary fiction) and are well suited to certain reading situations (plane trips) but less well suited to others (lying on the couch at home). The e-book may turn out to be more a complement to the printed book, as audiobooks have long been, rather than an outright substitute.'"

465 comments

  1. Of course by ozduo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    there are still candle makers in existence.

    --
    I got to the chocolate box before you, that's why the hard ones have teeth marks.
    1. Re:Of course by MackShepherd · · Score: 0

      there are still candle makers in existence.

      Because sometimes electricity fails and eventually the batteries in the flashlight and smartphone and laptop and ereader run down. Then again, sometimes people want to pretend there is no electricity or cellphone or laptop or ereader. I want a candle with a USB outlet to charge my smartphone

    2. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I imagine most people still have candles in their homes along with electricity. The two aren't mutually exclusive and the same applies to books and e-books.

    3. Re:Of course by krashnburn200 · · Score: 2

      nah, mostly because people like funky smells

    4. Re:Of course by damnbunni · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, it's not a candle, but the BioLite Camp Stove is a little woodburning stove that uses a thermocouple to generate power both to run its fan - it uses forced air to burn hotter and cleaner - and to provide a powered USB port to charge gizmos.

      I want one, but don't go camping enough any more to justify the pricetag.

    5. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an ignorant douche who was sooooo sure paper books would be almost gone in a year or two and now you're proven wrong so you spout idiotic crap like your post. You are wrong. Get the fuck over it.

    6. Re:Of course by Cwix · · Score: 2

      I do go camping, this thing is going to be awesome. Thanks for bringing this up.

      If anyone else wants the link
      http://biolitestove.com/

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    7. Re:Of course by hawguy · · Score: 0

      there are still candle makers in existence.

      Because sometimes electricity fails and eventually the batteries in the flashlight and smartphone and laptop and ereader run down.
      Then again, sometimes people want to pretend there is no electricity or cellphone or laptop or ereader.

      I want a candle with a USB outlet to charge my smartphone

      While it's not exactly a candle, here's a camp stove that uses heat from the stove to charge your USB device:

      http://biolitestove.com/campstove/camp-overview/features/

    8. Re:Of course by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Not to mention they ignore that there is more to a book than just the data, there is the feel, the texture, after trying a couple of e-readers i find reading a paperback is frankly more relaxing. something about those displays always seems to give me a little more strain than a good old fashioned paperback.

      So i don't think the comparison to candle makers is very apt, after all the vast majority switched to electric light whereas I don't see the majority switch to e-readers, they just aren't as nice as curling up with a good book.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    9. Re:Of course by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      You can finally have a real wood-burning computer!

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    10. Re:Of course by Sique · · Score: 1

      I read mostly ebooks now, it's just so much more convenient compared with the paper version. One single, light piece of hardware instead of several easily crumpled books, prone to get stains, rip or fall apart. And if I get sleepy while reading, the ebook just stays where I left of reading, instead of the paper book closing itself, dropping down or pages being folded.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    11. Re:Of course by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Yeah but if I like a book I can say "Here check this out" and they are cheap enough I don't have to worry about getting it back any time soon, they still haven't really worked the whole sharing thing out yet. Also the pricing structure sucks, I've seen too many books that were as high or even higher than the paperback which is just retarded, the digital don't cost shit to make or ship so why would I pay the same or higher than a hard copy? Steam is the only service that has gotten this right so far, their prices are usually 10%-25% lower on anything that isn't brand new and of course they have the crazy Steam sales to boot. I've just not been seeing that in e-books, the only thing I've seen that is even slightly appealing is it has allowed some of the horror and sci-fi writers to get their short story collections published.

      So I'm sorry but while I think the e-reader was a good idea from an environmental standpoint I just don't think its gonna make any real dent in book sales. remember this is the SECOND wave of e-readers,l they had an e-reader craze in the run up to the dotbomb as well and again it was never able to carve out more than a small niche. if it were handled better, marketed aggressively, with really good prices on content? Yeah it could take some share but if its one thing we've learned from the *.A.A its that never underestimate the greed of publishers to cock things up.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    12. Re:Of course by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      "...the digital don't cost shit to make or ship..."

      I hope you don't think a book springs fully-formed, formatted, and edited from the mind of an author the same way the morning deuce drops from the arse of an author.

      Format=/=product in this case. Pricing digital higher than paper doesn't make sense, agreed, but most of the work of a book happens long before ink hits paper or pixels hit screen. Are you paying for random pixels or are you paying for an entertainment experience you might enjoy for several hours or days, perhaps repeatedly. Because I could shit you out some random pixels for free, but it takes me months to craft a good story.

      "... never underestimate the greed of publishers to cock things up."

      On that we can heartily agree. Enough time is passing so that publishers are taking notice, and the ones that aren't, well...there are other publishers out there. Smaller publishers and independent authors are rushing to meet the needs of readers looking for good, cheap reads, and it's not all that hard to find good, modestly priced books to read about just about any subject.

    13. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there are still stairs, as well. But I'll take the elevator,though, thanks.

      E-texts and print are not mutually exclusive. And one has just become incredibly convenient and, in general, cheap(er).

      So if you really like reading, which is preferable: A print book? Or a vast library in your pocket?

      Nostalgia is not a reasonable argument, in itself.

    14. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You're right.

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    15. Re:Of course by Sique · · Score: 1

      But eBooks actually make a dent into book sales. There was more revenue in 2012 in the U.S. from selling eBooks than from selling paperbacks.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    16. Re:Of course by nobodie · · Score: 1

      agreed, i have yet to find a reading situation that i don't like using my ebook in.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    17. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      eBooks (Digital) are fine, but I still prefer sitting down and reading printed books (analog). I always get distracted from reading eBooks because on my Tablet or on my PC I end up doing something other than reading the eBook and never get more than a chapter read at a time. I have read every single printed book in my library, but only a handful of eBooks, other than technical guides which having the eBook is essentially more productive since most of the technical guides I find myself using are thousands of pages long, where bookmarking and search features make the task much simpler than dealing with a bulky book.

    18. Re:Of course by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Of course I don't think that but you have to agree that the costs to print and store and ship actual books is NOT cheap and by cutting all that out they can lower the price and still make as much or more than they were before. Again this lets the authors get stuff out there that would never fly IRL, short stories of a couple of chapters and episodic content for just a couple of examples.

      But again I say look to the RIAA, because if its one thing we have seen over and over its the greed of the publishers that usually cock things up. Take CDs for example, the price hasn't gone down in nearly 20 years even though they are cheaper than ever to produce and at a fricking buck a song many artists have albums that is cheaper to buy the hard copy and rip it yourself than to just buy the damned songs. Of course as we found out with Cheap trick and Meatloaf (who don't get a cent from digital sales and is suing the record companies) these higher prices are NOT because of the artist, its the publishers slitting their own throats by trying to wring every penny they can out of each sale instead of using economy of scale to make more money. Short sighted PHB bullshit as usual.

      And finally look at again at Steam that has done it right. Not 6 years ago frankly I didn't know a single gamer who WASN'T a pirate, they'd buy a few titles they wanted the MP on and a few from the bargain bin but a good 90% of their games came from P2P, now in my area it is the complete opposite, Steam has given everyone so many good games at dirt cheap prices that its been a couple of years since i seen a gamer box in my shop with cracks loaded up on it but I've seen more Steam installs than I can even count.

      Digital gives these publishers a chance to make more money than they ever have thanks to the "checkout sale" by using recommendations and bundles to move more product than they ever could in store but again I bet they cock the whole thing up. And I wish and hope you are right, frankly its a lovely sentiment to think that the consumer will ultimately win by having the small publishers that listen take over, but I would say just look at the record industry. We have had cheap access to recording studios and the power of the Internet working in favor of your idea for over a decade when it comes to music yet the same old megacorps still fuck the artist and consumers and get all the money...why? Because they learned the key was controlling the gateway, you can't get radio play or TV or print without sucking the corporate cock and I have a sad sinking feeling the same will be true of the big book publishers, they'll just partner up with their friends the MSM and you will never get your book talked about or advertised if you don't bend over and get fucked.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. An e-book is not a book. by slackware+3.6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just can not become totally immersed in an e-book. It started when I was a little kid and I read every book I could get my hands on. E-books will never replace the feeling of nostalgia from my childhood. Unfortunatly I rarely read anymore unless it is a manual or some such.

    1. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like one of these people who only listen to vinyl.

      I don't care whether I read from a book, an e-book or paper towels. I use what's the most convenient and it's defenitely the e-reader

    2. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As an avid reader, I am entirely fine with not having a house full of books and DVDs. It's fantastic to have so much space reclaimed that other homes have stuffed with shelf upon shelf of books, video games, movies, and albums. It kind of sucks on a tablet, because of the back-light, but that's what I use due to the fact that I don't want to carry a tablet *and* an e-reader (e-ink, that is -- which would be preferable, all other things being equal). But a physical book? Nope. I saw enough homes when I was growing up that were just consumed with walls full of books that just sat there forever. I'll take the option without clutter, thanks.

      Also, you don't have the worries of fingerprints, bent spines, dogeared pages, and everything else that drives a book-lover like me nuts with a physical copy.

    3. Re:An e-book is not a book. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Unlike you, I still read a lot - and it's almost strictly ebooks nowadays. What does that prove? Admittedly nothing... but at least my anecdotal evidence is from a person who still reads.

      Think about it though. You stated you hardly read anymore - so just how strong can that nostalgic pull you speak of be, anyway?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Eskarel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't get into an e-book on a back lit screen, but on e-ink, I can and have read till the wee hours of the morning just as I did when I was a child and as a bonus my library fits in my pocket.

    5. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Lisias · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds like one of these people who never had listened to a good vinyl. :-)

      Ahhh, the pleasure to read a graphic novel without caring about screen size, color depth or resolution. Or perhaps, just to open a book you already had read on any random page in the bathroom to kill some time.

      The convenience to simply spend 2 buck buying the newspaper to read it in some park, without caring about battery life, sun light or wifi to download the darn thing. The freedom to wander where I may want without caring about energy sockets or battery chargers.

      Or the confort to be able to find some classic comic of my childhood on a used books store, buy it and be confident that no motherfscker of a copyright holder will be able to "delete" the thing from my hands.

      My 2 cents? eBooks are fantastic tools to consume discardable content (as technical books, since it's almost sure that I'll have to buy another one about the same thing in the next few months) or, for the ethically versatile consumers, pirated ones.

      But for pleasure reading (did you ever read Dante's Inferno on a eBook? it's appalling! The printed version is so richly illustrated...), the old and faithful dead tree medium is, still, the best choice for me.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    6. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Osgeld · · Score: 1, Troll

      you can still not care about resolution or color depth ... books havent in generations, why should you?

      why would I spend 2 bucks on a newspaper bias to an opinion? and e-ink works fine in sunlight

      read it when I was a kid, done, not a romantic hoarder

      if you want to see discardablecontent at its worst, go to a thrift store or used book store, and look at the sheer infestation of books no one wants to look at, they cant even give them away.

      depends on which printed version you looked at, the one I last saw looked like a bad photocopy

    7. Re:An e-book is not a book. by frosty_tsm · · Score: 1

      Also, you don't have the worries of fingerprints, bent spines, dogeared pages, and everything else that drives a book-lover like me nuts with a physical copy.

      But you do have the worry of DRM. It might be better but it's not perfect.

    8. Re:An e-book is not a book. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      For me it was just the other way around (well mostly). I read a lot of books as a child (1 or 2 a week) but somehow got disinterested. Then I got an e-reader and I'm now reading 1 or 2 books a month (not as much as before, but the books have become larger and available time shorter).
      E-readers suck for manuals and reference books though; I tend to heavily bookmark those books and use the index, glossary and appendixes a lot, which is where e-readers don't have good solutions yet.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    9. Re:An e-book is not a book. by DogDude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think that even Ray Bradbury could have imagined that people would have entirely given up their books, and put control of all formerly printed media in the hands of a few giant corporations, due to "clutter".

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    10. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's fantastic to have so much space reclaimed that other homes have stuffed with shelf upon shelf of books, video games, movies, and albums.

      shelf upon shelf of books piled on top of more books.. sounds like home sweet home to me.

      i'll keep my books and videos and albums and compact discs, thank you very much.. for the rights and freedoms that come with the physical formats as well as i just very much prefer a real book to staring at a display. there's only one powered device i want to curl up with by the fire on a cold rainy night, and i can assure you, i certainly won't be doing any reading while it's turned on. ;p

      and have fun (legally) lending a book (or movie, or game, or whatever drm-ed media you have foolishly bought into) to a friend, relative or neighbor. not gonna happen. the producers and publishers will make sure of that. same goes for reselling your old stuff you don't want anymore. and please, also enjoy repurchasing (i mean, re-licensing) your media files over and over when you want to shift formats to whatever the next great thing is.

      until digital media is SOLD, not licensed... physical formats are the best formats.

    11. Re:An e-book is not a book. by WillKemp · · Score: 1

      I use what's the most convenient and it's defenitely the e-reader

      Yeah, and an ebook reader is suited to reading lying on the couch - they're lighter and easier to use with one hand.

      Since i got an ereader, i've read a lot of books i would never have read if i didn't have it. I live in a remote location and the nearest town has only one small bookshop. Being able to buy books online allows me to read books that i'd never bother ordering from the bookshop in town.

    12. Re:An e-book is not a book. by MackShepherd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But you do have the worry of DRM. It might be better but it's not perfect.

      This is my problem and it hit home recently when I upgraded my smartphone and discovered there's no Kindle ap for my new model phone and I couldn't read the rest of the book I'd bought on Amazon with any of the available aps. I enjoy the ability to stop reading on the Kindle, PC, Laptop, or smartphone and being able to pick up where I left off on the other devices. And what happens if the vendor where you bought your DRM'ed e-book goes under or is bought out? I think of buying e-books as being more like renting movies.

    13. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I just can not become totally immersed in an e-book. ... Unfortunatly I rarely read anymore unless it is a manual or some such."

      Then, how do you know that you cannot become immersed?

    14. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Pete+(big-pete) · · Score: 1

      I am buying all my reading material as e-books where possible now - I have an iPad and a Kindle, but I only use the iPad for reading large page PDF files, the Kindle is used for novels etc.

      My main irritation is when I see e-books priced more expensively than hardcover books. Sure, I understand that ebooks are taxed at full rate in the UK as opposed to a reduced rate for paper books, but on the flip side there's no printing, materials, quality control, shipping, etc which is needed with physical goods. If I try and buy an ebook and it's above the price of the printed copy, then it's off my list of things to buy for a few years until it becomes reasonably priced.

      -- Pete.

    15. Re:An e-book is not a book. by nogginthenog · · Score: 1

      E-Book prices are fixed by a cartel of publishers.

    16. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 1

      E-books will never replace the feeling of nostalgia from my childhood.

      And kids growing up today will have nostalgia for the iPads of their childhood.

    17. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This is my problem and it hit home recently when I upgraded my smartphone and discovered there's no Kindle ap for my new model phone ..."

      Calibre fixes all your problems.
      http://calibre-ebook.com/

    18. Re:An e-book is not a book. by VocationalZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's fantastic to have so much space reclaimed that other homes have stuffed with shelf upon shelf of books, video games, movies, and albums

      I still find it strange that people would not like to have shelf upon shelf of books, games, movies and albums.

    19. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I think of buying e-books as being more like renting movies.

      Yeah, and for that most are still to expensive.

      That said, I have an e-book reader and just remove the DRM before putting it on the device. The device (Kindle DX) itself will never get internet access enabled. Ever.

    20. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Cornwallis · · Score: 3, Funny

      The freedom to wander where I may want without caring about energy sockets or battery chargers.

      Or the confort to be able to find some classic comic of my childhood on a used books store, buy it and be confident that no motherfscker of a copyright holder will be able to "delete" the thing from my hands.

      All of what you said...

      but more on the Freedom thing... Winston Smith loves ebooks not just for the copyright issue but for the ability to rewrite history. That makes them doubleplusungood in my book.

    21. Re:An e-book is not a book. by muridae · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree, AC. My walls are lined with books of all sizes. And my bedroom could be confused with a library and a comfy reading area. But I still like my kindle. I never got around to buying big copies of "The Complete Works" of anyone, so downloading those public domain ones and reading them in a form that can be held in a single hand is nice. The same can be said about many sci-fi books, they are bloody heavy in hard back form. I'd have killed for an ebook when i was reading Otherland; 4 books with 1500+ pages each.

      I'll keep my books, but I'll still read a ebook. Yet to adjust to using an ebook for technical manuals or references, and I still prefer a graphic novel in dead tree form. But a 2000 page opus to space opera? I'll take that digitally.

    22. Re:An e-book is not a book. by muridae · · Score: 1

      I find it odd as well. Maybe it is the social network generation, their friends already know what they play/read/saw/did so who cares to display it. But my bookshelf, with accompanying trinkets, tells more about me in less space than most could imagine.

    23. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Multiple shelves lined full of books is my idea of heaven.

      I do find uses for digital books, but that is primarily for when I am traveling and don't want the extra weight load, or when I feel like laying down while I read and the book is large. E-books will never replace my physical book collection, they will only complement it, "dead tree book" buzz phrase be damned.

    24. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have converted all my ebooks into drm-free open formats, backed up with all my other stuff on separate hard drives. How is any corporation controlling me?

    25. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Pembers · · Score: 1

      E-Book prices are fixed by a cartel of publishers.

      Which the government (for some values of "government") has noticed, and decided to do something about. Google "ebook price fixing lawsuit" for more information.

    26. Re:An e-book is not a book. by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Informative

      But for pleasure reading (did you ever read Dante's Inferno on a eBook? it's appalling! The printed version is so richly illustrated...)

      What "printed version" of the Comedy are you referring to? There are myriad editions of Dante in English, some illustrated, most not, and there have been multiple sets of illustrations created for the text. If you are referring to Dore's illustrations, those tend to accompany translations like Longfellow's that contemporary readers would best avoid -- they are antiquated, sometimes contain misunderstandings of Dante's 13th-century Italian, and they lack a facing-page Italian text. Ironically, because those translations tend to lack a commentary, were it not for the illustrations they would actually be more readable on the Kindle and similar devices than modern editions where one would refer to endnotes.

      I would say that the best all-around translation of the Comedy into contemporary English is Allen Mandelbaum's. That one does happen to contain illustrations, by Barry Moser, but they are not especially important and someone reading the text without them would miss nothing.

    27. Re:An e-book is not a book. by lxs · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Breaking ebook DRM is laughably trivial and getting easier for the non technical user by the day. Use Calibre and third-party DRM plugins to liberate your books as soon as you buy them and you'll never have to worry about it again.
      I use a Kobo epub reader and two thirds of the ebooks I buy are .mobi books made for Kindles.

    28. Re:An e-book is not a book. by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      I have converted all my ebooks into drm-free open formats, backed up with all my other stuff on separate hard drives. How is any corporation controlling me?

      They are controlling you by lobbying for legislation that makes what you've done illegally. Format-shifting is illegal under the DMCA if it involves breaking DRM.

    29. Re:An e-book is not a book. by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I tend to heavily bookmark those books and use the index, glossary and appendixes a lot, which is where e-readers don't have good solutions yet.

      Actually, the Nook does those things pretty well, plus can do free text searches, which is not easily done when it means you have to skim every page in a dead-tree book.

      What e-readers DON'T do well is handle documents with big diagrams or multiple detailed diagrams per page. Not enough screen space. Even if the resolution can handle it, a 7-inch version of some stuff I've seen can be murder on the eyes.

      Also, I learn a lot via bibliomancy: picking up a technical book or magazine, letting it fall open to random topics, which I then may find worth reading. E-readers don't do that.

    30. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was late to ebook adoption. Got a keyboard Kindle about a year ago and then a Fire. I love the Fire for reading novels and find that, for some reason, I can read for longer periods with it, for hours at a time. I especially like reading in the dark and now that it is winter, and I keep my house around 62 degrees, it is wonderful to prop it u under the covers and get all cozy. There is something very satisfying about this in, as you note, a childlike way. Dunno why, maybe it enhances the sense of wonder, being alone in the dark with an unfolding tale.

    31. Re:An e-book is not a book. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and an ebook reader is suited to reading lying on the couch - they're lighter and easier to use with one hand.

      On the other hand, a paper book is better for reading while soaking in the tub. When you drop a trade paperback in the water, you're out a few bucks, and you are not harmed by the experience. If you drop a reader in the tub, you're out a fair chunk of change, and you probably don't want to breathe the magic smoke that erupts from it, either.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    32. Re:An e-book is not a book. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I find it odd as well. Maybe it is the social network generation, their friends already know what they play/read/saw/did so who cares to display it. But my bookshelf, with accompanying trinkets, tells more about me in less space than most could imagine.

      One of the reasons for me making the jump too eBooks is that I have no more walls to fill with bookshelves - I'm having to store books in the attic now.

      Twelve boxes up there so far.

      Now, I could keep buying paper books, and just add to the boxes of books in the attic, but that seems kind of pointless when I could buy an eBook, strip the DRM using Calibre, keep a copy in my book reader, my laptop, my desktop, and one (or more) of the backup HDDs....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    33. Re:An e-book is not a book. by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      Yes, but in fifty years, the books of their grandparents will still, largely, survive but the iPads of their childhood will be long obsolete, their lithium ion batteries impossible to replace.

    34. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just can not become totally immersed in an e-book. It started when I was a little kid and I read every book I could get my hands on. E-books will never replace the feeling of nostalgia from my childhood. Unfortunatly I rarely read anymore unless it is a manual or some such.

      I'll never understand this particular attitude. You don't read, and presumably don't buy books, yet you have a strong opinion about ebooks.

      Great. I'll file that under "totally irrelevant opinion".

    35. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha. A post that has truly earned its insightful moderation.

      Creepy stuff..

    36. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, a paper book is better for reading while soaking in the tub.

      I'll serve your hypothetical scenario with a real live anecdote.

      I have a doctorate (i.e. Ph.D.) in English Language and Literature. I have literally read tens of thousands of books (not necessarily cover to cover) in my life.

      I have never read a book while naked in the tub, mostly because I shower rather than bathe. I have read books in many places and in many situations, but never while in a tub.

      To be fair, I've never used a tablet device while in the tub either. : P

    37. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have several thousand e-books, not one is DRM'ized. Several i have scanned myself from books and magazines i have on a shelf. I'm not under the control of some giant corporation, as my files move from device to device with ease.

    38. Re:An e-book is not a book. by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      Is it? Eink readers only draw power from the battery when the page is being flipped, IIRC. So, if you drop it, wouldn't it be like dropping an electrical device on the water while the power is turned off? Unless you turn it on again while it's still wet, there's no harm done. Drying it may take quite a while, though. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I've never actually soaked any electrical devices (I had an opportunity not long ago, but it didn't seem like a good idea at the time) and I have no idea about how the battery would fare. I guess it would depend on the device.

      Having said that, there's the aspect of price. Books in English and Spanish tend to be cheaper, but try looking at prices for books in Portuguese or German. They're quite a bit more expensive (for comparison, I bought Moby Dick for $4, in English, while the Portuguese edition was on sale for $25 - that's at the same store), and you may find that a Kindle only amounts to about three or four paperbacks. It's absurd, but reality often is.

    39. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like one of these people who never had listened to a good vinyl. :-)

      Quality doesn't mean a damned thing if its too inconvenient to listen to ( or read ) except on special occasions or drag along on the plane to a meeting. I also prefer analog, paper, etc. but i'm not so blind to realize that the convenience of digital formats far outweighs the lost in 'perfection' on a daily basis.

      When was the last time you carried a portable audiophile quality turntable with you on a walk in the park? Or had access to 100's of reference manuals no matter where you are sitting? When was the last time you were wiling to take out a book you own from the 1800's to read at lunch?

      Its a trade-off, one i have accepted.

    40. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's not generational at all, but rather people who have had to relocate many times in their life. The more stuff you have to carry around, the harder (and more expensive) it is to move. Many bookcases full of books is a lot more hassle to move than a hard drive full of ebooks.

    41. Re:An e-book is not a book. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and an ebook reader is suited to reading lying on the couch - they're lighter and easier to use with one hand.

      On the other hand, a paper book is better for reading while soaking in the tub. When you drop a trade paperback in the water, you're out a few bucks, and you are not harmed by the experience. If you drop a reader in the tub, you're out a fair chunk of change, and you probably don't want to breathe the magic smoke that erupts from it, either.

      Or you could just put the eReader into a 10 cent baggie (or waterproof case) -- my Kindle fits perfectly into a quart sized Ziplock baggie, and it's survived many dunks in the tub (as well as floating across the hot tub).

      Which is more than I can say for some books I've accidentally dunked - once they get wet, the pages get stuff and hard to turn even if you can dry it out before mold sets in.

      It's much easier to protect an eReader from water than a paper book or magazine since it's easier to convey a simple tap or swipe through the case to the eReader than to accomodate page turns of a book.

      No eReader is going to smoke when its 3.3V powered electronics get wet, it's just going to stop working.

    42. Re:An e-book is not a book. by hawguy · · Score: 1

      It's fantastic to have so much space reclaimed that other homes have stuffed with shelf upon shelf of books, video games, movies, and albums.

      shelf upon shelf of books piled on top of more books.. sounds like home sweet home to me.

      i'll keep my books and videos and albums and compact discs, thank you very much.. for the rights and freedoms that come with the physical formats as well as i just very much prefer a real book to staring at a display.

      Others prefer a different kind of freedom -- the ability to move to a new place without carting along boxes upon boxes of books. I used to carry my books around before the internet was so big and before eReaders were even available. I had quite a few reference books and a lot of pleasure reading books. Then I had the chance to move overseas briefly.

      I donated 23 boxes of books to a local library - took two trips with all of the car seats fully loaded. Of course, I got rid of a lot of other possessions I really wasn't using and likely would never use.

      I ripped my 300 disk CD collection to MP3 and got rid of the bulky jewel boxes and put the disks into a big CD binder. I didn't have many DVD's at the time, but over time my collection has grown to over a 100, so I've done the same with them - ripped them all to hard disk and put the physical disks in a binder. I haven't played a physical disk in years, I only hold onto them for proof of ownership.

      Now all of the stuff I care about (excluding furniture) fits on a standard sized shipping pallet which makes me much more mobile and means I can live in a small apartment without needing to store my stuff somewhere.

      I don't miss the books at all -- the reference books have mostly all been replaced by online documentation, and when I feel like reading a book, I just pick up my eReader... If I'm not at home I can read on my phone, or a laptop.

      The first thing I do when I buy an eBook is strip the DRM, so I really do "own" my books.

    43. Re:An e-book is not a book. by slackware+3.6 · · Score: 1

      I have 3 young kids the youngest is 6 months old and I have apox 2 free hours a day. Kids get my free time and I don't consider "see spot run" a book. Soon they will be old enough they won't want to spend time with me then I can pick up my reading again.

    44. Re:An e-book is not a book. by gutnor · · Score: 1

      Well he should. The common theme for futurist vision is how people move toward little space on their own. It should not be surprising that at some point, compactness is going to become a bigger and bigger natural selection criteria of tech.

      Maybe you don't live in a big city, or maybe you are just rich enough. But space in a city is at premium already, everything that enters my flat need to justify its size. Books are banned (as many other things, like gadget, vacation souvenir, ...), my wife still buy them, but we have to sell the old one when she buys new one. In that respect, the control of the giant corps is a bit of a moot point: sure they can ban me from the content I bought, but it is a content that I would not have been able to keep in physical format anyway. (note: that personally, I make sure to have a DRM-free backup of the book I bought, but I can see how Joe User may not see much difference between indirect control of corps vs very direct limitation of personal space)

    45. Re:An e-book is not a book. by slackware+3.6 · · Score: 1

      No time to read and I had to give away most of my book in the last couple moves. I still have books I was given 25 years ago. And I still read the newspaper almost every day.

    46. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's called being burdened by your stuff. Having your stuff control you. Your options in life are limited by your tie to all that stuff.

      After watching various hoarder shows, I've become a serious minimalist. I still listen to, watch, and read everything I had before (and I still buy), but instead of consuming my life and my home, it all sits in a little raided box (with backups in the cloud). Even backups of all my Kindle books.

      With the exception of my bed, desk, and chair, everything I own will fit in my car. There's a wonderful feeling about that.

    47. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Gax · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's not generational at all, but rather people who have had to relocate many times in their life. The more stuff you have to carry around, the harder (and more expensive) it is to move. Many bookcases full of books is a lot more hassle to move than a hard drive full of ebooks.

      This. I was in the same situation as the grandparent post - I couldn't think of a time when I could do without analogue media. However, I can see the advantage now that I've moved to London. I have to pay a fortune to rent a tiny flat and don't have the space for a large number of objects. Any CDs or DVDs I buy are transferred to disc and I take the physical media to my parents' house for storage. For books that I want to keep for the long-term, I've started to go for the paperback to reduce storage space, and regularly clear out those that I don't want anymore. It's impractical to drive in the city, so I have to think about how I will transfer items to a new place. I would love to own a 32-inch TV, but went for a 22-inch TV because it is easier to carry.

      As the population grows and housing costs increase, it's likely we'll be forced to live in accommodation that is smaller than that held by our parents. I suspect we'll see more people moving to digital storage for many types of personal item to free up some space.

    48. Re:An e-book is not a book. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Those days are coming. Dont you think an ancient Egyptian would look at modern newspaper as astonishing but hardly practical considering all the industrial-age tools needed, compared to hand-made papyrus.

      --
      Good-bye
    49. Re:An e-book is not a book. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      This is the problem. If you ignore copyright, digital copies are VASTLY superior in almost any metric, including the ability to make a physical copy trivially.

      --
      Good-bye
    50. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      One question: why would transferring items to a new place be a problem? Don't you have moving trucks and moving services in London? Now obviously, boxes and boxes of books and CDs and DVDs will add to your moving bill, but it's not (or shouldn't be) like you have to hand-carry everything from apartment (flat) to apartment when you move. Even if you don't want to hire movers and do it yourself to save money, sofas and beds aren't things you can carry by hand, so you'll need some kind of truck for that.

    51. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

      I find it odd as well. Maybe it is the social network generation

      No, it's the physically mobile generation. Everyone moves on a regular basis for school and then work. The third time in five years you pack up everything all those books and disc cases look far less meaningful.

    52. Re:An e-book is not a book. by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      I'd be surprised if the kindle didn't use some power when not page flipping. The screen itself may not require power, but everything else will. Also the bath water is unlikely to be 100% pure distilled H2O. Body oils, skin cells, minerals, and other impurities are likely to be present. And waiting for the internal circuit boards to dry fully could take many months and the only way to actually have some confidence that it is dry is to open up the case, which might be tricky.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    53. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Natales · · Score: 1

      About a year ago I bought The Modernist Cuisine and recently, their new "At Home" book also. Remarkable compendium about food, tons of scientific data and exquisite photography. Just the photography alone makes it worth spending the big bucks the books cost.

      What makes me bring this up here is that the book was written by Nathan Myhrvold, former CTO of Microsoft and probably one of the smartest geeks alive today, and yet, he chose specifically to do this work in paper because there was no way to provide a compelling experience to the reader that would reflect the nature of the work in any electronic format available today. I cannot imagine this book having the same effect in a Kindle, iPad or even a laptop screen.

      I think the right model at this point is an intermediate one, much like Richard Dawkins' The Magic of Reality, which is published as a book (although they do have eBook and audio versions) but with a companion app that expands on the book. The App alone is not attempting to be a replacement for the book, but rather an extension of it. I'm fairly convinced that this is the model with the strongest business case for the current state of the technology.

    54. Re:An e-book is not a book. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      No, the reader draws a small amount of power even when turned off. It has to use some power just to detect that you have pressed a button or touched the screen.

      Even if you were correct, though, you would still be dead shorting a Lithium ion battery that is more than willing to dump enough current all at once to burn traces on the circuit board and/or its own connecting wires.

      And of course, if your device miraculously avoided that fate, the battery would still be stone dead. Lithium ion batteries cannot safely be charged by the device once they fall below a certain minimum voltage (and even if they could, the battery's controller wouldn't be powered, so it would not be possible for the device to do so). So in the best case scenario, you would still have to fully disassemble the reader and replace the battery, which at retail prices would probably cost you half as much as buying a new device.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    55. Re:An e-book is not a book. by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      That makes sense. So... how long do you think until a Defy-like e-reader hits the shelves?

    56. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak for yourself. My PDFs are under the control of nobody but me.

    57. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, you don't have the worries of fingerprints, bent spines, dogeared pages, and everything else that drives a book-lover like me nuts with a physical copy.

      Allow me to make the observation that you are not a book lover, but a lover of reading. As a book lover, fingerprints, bent spines and dogeared pages do not drive me nuts. On the contrary, they are what make books books, rather than just stories. They are what makes me love books.

      The same goes for my walls of books, I wouldn't want to miss them for the world. They don't just sit there though, most of those books have been read, their artwork admired, used for references, or at least thumbed through in the past 5 years.

    58. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Breaking ebook DRM is laughably trivial and getting easier for the non technical user by the day. Use Calibre and third-party DRM plugins to liberate your books as soon as you buy them and you'll never have to worry about it again.
      I use a Kobo epub reader and two thirds of the ebooks I buy are .mobi books made for Kindles.

      What programs? I use Calibre but I have several DRM'ed books I have bought that do not convert so I can read them on my Nook. (I bought them from Amazon... ) can you direct me to the plugins you use to do that? My email is sitarocks@yahoo.com

    59. Re:An e-book is not a book. by twistofsin · · Score: 1

      As an avid reader, I am entirely fine with not having a house full of books and DVDs. It's fantastic to have so much space reclaimed that other homes have stuffed with shelf upon shelf of books, video games, movies, and albums. It kind of sucks on a tablet, because of the back-light, but that's what I use due to the fact that I don't want to carry a tablet *and* an e-reader (e-ink, that is -- which would be preferable, all other things being equal). But a physical book? Nope. I saw enough homes when I was growing up that were just consumed with walls full of books that just sat there forever. I'll take the option without clutter, thanks.

      Also, you don't have the worries of fingerprints, bent spines, dogeared pages, and everything else that drives a book-lover like me nuts with a physical copy.

      My wife and I have the exact opposite feeling on this subject. We love the look of our book collections lining the walls of our living room and den.

    60. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=calibre+kindle+drm

    61. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

      Depends on the move. I may not be the GP, but I've had five moves that included three cities in the last ten years. And if I kept my media (books/music/video) as physical copies it would certainly constitute the single largest and heaviest aspect of any move, easily outweighing any piece of furniture.

      For that matter, one of my moves was far enough that it was cheaper to just sell/give away all the furniture and buy it again at the other end. Shipping hard copy of all my media might have approached the replacement value of it at that point.

      Among friends of my generation, there is a clear dividing line. There are those who own houses and are happy to assume the logistics of bulk. Then there is everyone else, including those who own condos, who could literately move everything they need in the back of a couple trucks. It's a mental dividing line that seems to ignore almost everything else. Kids, marital status, etc. The more urban and compact the less interest and patience for bulky things.

    62. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Format-shifting is illegal under the DMCA if it involves breaking DRM.

      That’s one of the reasons that I like living in Canada. Even with a majority government, Harper couldn’t push through the kind of Canadian version of the DMCA he wanted to.

    63. Re:An e-book is not a book. by crywalt · · Score: 1

      Oh, but the actual book, on your shelf, is part of what makes reading so wonderful. I love libraries and book stores. Shelf upon shelf of books and albums? That's great! John Waters was right.

    64. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      As a matter of fact, I still have a lot of vinyls on my parent's home.

      I don't care about the medium, I care about the content, and some of the albums I love sounds like crap after being remastered into a CD. Not the technology fault, it was these shitty sound engineers of nowadays that think it's a good idea to filter crunch everything.

      It's for this reason that I prefer Ogg Vorbis over MP3 when I have the choice.

      But you are right: I always bring my iPod (hacked, using RockBox) when walking in the park. Together with my hard, dead tree version of my favorite book. :-)

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    65. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      This one.

      I read Portuguese, and I love the work of Gustave Doré.

      Disclaimer: I'm not the seller of this book. It happened that I just found good pictures of this book on a auctions site.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    66. Re:An e-book is not a book. by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      my Kindle fits perfectly into a quart sized Ziplock baggie, and it's survived many dunks in the tub (as well as floating across the hot tub).

      Kindles in your hot tub, huh? Man, what a raging party that must have been!

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    67. Re:An e-book is not a book. by TranquilVoid · · Score: 1

      One worse metric is that digitial requries active management - you don't have to backup your bookshelf every month, and the likelihood of loss by fire/theft is small enough that you can mostly discount it across a lifetime. You don't have to format-shift your books every decade either.

      Perhaps cloud storage will eventually overcome this. Digitial should be the way to go.

    68. Re:An e-book is not a book. by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and an ebook reader is suited to reading lying on the couch - they're lighter and easier to use with one hand.

      Since i got an ereader, i've read a lot of books i would never have read if i didn't have it. I live in a remote location and the nearest town has only one small bookshop. Being able to buy books online allows me to read books that i'd never bother ordering from the bookshop in town.

      If a book is too heavy for you to hold with one hand on the couch, maybe it's time to do some pushups, seriously. I'm assuming you're reading a novel, not a medical dictionary. I understand you live in the boonies, but you still get mail, yes? And you have internet, so you're not too far out. What if the title you want isn't on an ebook?

      "[ebooks] are well suited to certain reading situations (plane trips) but less well suited to others (lying on the couch at home)."

      Regarding the quoted text, 'ebooks aren't great for airplanes', I have some problems with that. Flight attendants still make you turn off all electronic devices, whether is has wifi/3g or not --Thankfully the FAA is starting dialogue about that lame rule. Have you read a backlit screen for hours on end with no other ambient light? It's excruciating! And, if you have a non-backlit ereader, you'll still need the overhead light to read the screen when flying at night. I'm still confused why the author thinks that ebooks aren't well-suited for reading at home.

      Paper books don't need batteries. I LOVE the feel of paper. I love how I never see any glare from paper. I love that I can resell a paper book with no pains.

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    69. Re:An e-book is not a book. by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Some more pro and con about ebooks and paper books: You don't ever have to worry about one of your ebooks disappearing because the publisher decided to wipe it from your device without your consent. If is if your house is on fire, you only have to grab your ereader --trying to save your entire library of paper books could make you one crispy critter.

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    70. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      Those days are coming. Dont you think an ancient Egyptian would look at modern newspaper as astonishing but hardly practical considering all the industrial-age tools needed, compared to hand-made papyrus.

      I bet you're right.

      I'm not a luddite. It happens that I value quality over convenience. Using again my example of this edition of the Divine Comedy, the day I can have the same reading pleasure this paper book gives to me, it will be the day I'll really jump into eBooks - but it's unlikely that this will happens in a cheap, affordable way, in less than 5 or, God forbid, 10 years.

      Flexible e-ink displays do exist, but this technology is really far from giving me the experience a printed book is giving me since my childhood. And I'm ignoring the pricing problem (and where in hell they will cram that God damned batteries!).

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    71. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I have used both my tablet and paper books in the tub.

      What is your point?

    72. Re:An e-book is not a book. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Books really do not take up that much room unless you buy many thousands of them. Anyway, I WANT a house to be full of books. I don't want some minimalist white cube with an iPad resting gracefully in one corner next to the espresso machine on top of a single futon.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    73. Re:An e-book is not a book. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you are creating your own dystopia. I feel sorry for you. Life should be messy, or else you might as well be a robot, or dead.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    74. Re:An e-book is not a book. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Others prefer a different kind of freedom -- the ability to move to a new place without carting along boxes upon boxes of books.

      You won’t find a new country, won’t find another shore.
      This city will always pursue you. You will walk
      the same streets, grow old in the same neighborhoods,
      will turn gray in these same houses.
      You will always end up in this city. Don’t hope for things elsewhere

      C.P. Cavafy.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    75. Re:An e-book is not a book. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Everyone moves on a regular basis for school and then work

      School/college is an irrelevant one-off as students have few possessions anyway, but most people I know don't move around that much for work. In the UK your choice is generally to stay where you are or move to London if you want the biggest choice of well paid jobs (in which case you'll be commuting anyway so you have a wide choice of where to live around London)

      But there's little point moving a hundred miles between one small town and another every couple of years, most places are equally limited for jobs outside the capital..

      Yes, I am of an older generation.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    76. Re:An e-book is not a book. by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      Since i got an ereader, i've read a lot of books i would never have read if i didn't have it. I live in a remote location and the nearest town has only one small bookshop. Being able to buy books online allows me to read books that i'd never bother ordering from the bookshop in town.

      I know, it's a real shame that Amazon, the makers of the Kindle and associated downloadable books, don't deliver dead tree books to remote locations. Oh wait...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    77. Re:An e-book is not a book. by gutnor · · Score: 1

      You may have a biased view living in consumerist society but accumulating physical stuff does not make you more alive. It especially ironic that valuing experience over physical possession is considered robotic. Do you really consider people that goes on holiday in family, read book, watch movie with friends are only alive if they have the physical proof like a dvd, a paper book, a plastic eiffel tower lying around in a bookshelf ?

    78. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an avid reader, I am entirely fine with not having a house full of books and DVDs. It's fantastic to have so much space reclaimed that other homes have stuffed with shelf upon shelf of books, video games, movies, and albums. It kind of sucks on a tablet, because of the back-light, but that's what I use due to the fact that I don't want to carry a tablet *and* an e-reader (e-ink, that is -- which would be preferable, all other things being equal). But a physical book? Nope. I saw enough homes when I was growing up that were just consumed with walls full of books that just sat there forever. I'll take the option without clutter, thanks.

      Also, you don't have the worries of fingerprints, bent spines, dogeared pages, and everything else that drives a book-lover like me nuts with a physical copy.

      Couldn't agree more. It really counts at the time of moving, and while travelling, there are weight limits on how much one can carry. With an e-book, I just get all the titles I ever want, and have them all with me, whenever I wish to read them, like for reference. That's a huge improvement with having all those physical slaughtered tree books that would have to be subsequently lugged around.

    79. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more communist nanny state interfearence in the free market.

      (roman_mir, blocked due to liberal moderation conspirasy)

    80. Re:An e-book is not a book. by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      Quite bluntly, not every book is the Divine Comedy.

      It's fun to settle in with a nicely illustrated classic sometimes, but when I'm standing in line at the Post Office, I want to read a few paragraphs of the latest romance or fantasy or science fiction or literature that I'm reading. I know the book might not be a keeper. I know the book might not be something my descendants want to read. I'm good with that. Not every little brain leaving of mine needs to be advertised on my shelves or left to my future grandkids.

      I read to read. I don't care where it comes from or what I'm reading it on. And I read more ebooks now than I have in the past ten years. Most of them, I don't honestly care if their format dissolves or they magically disappear from my device. If I want to keep it, I'll get arsed to download it and back it up on my server. Most of it's not worth the effort, though. I read, I enjoy, and I move on.

    81. Re:An e-book is not a book. by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      "If a book is too heavy for you to hold with one hand on the couch, maybe it's time to do some pushups, seriously. I'm assuming you're reading a novel, not a medical dictionary."

      Anyone with carpal tunnel or repetitive stress injury can tell you that even holding a paperback can cause pain if you're sitting or lying and holding it up in one hand. My mother in law can't hold up a paperback for very long at the angle and distance she needs to be able to read it. She can hold a kindle with one hand and resize the text so she doesn't have to stretch her arms out or hold them up in the air. And I think Game of Thrones is really close in weight to your average abbreviated medical dictionary. ;)

    82. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's impractical to drive in the city

      That's a bit of an exaggeration. Owning a car in London might be more trouble than it's worth, but that's not the same thing.
      Once you've got more stuff than you can carry - and you can't fit much in a rucksack, a suitcase and a holdall - you're going to need a vehicle of some kind to move anyway. Whether that means hiring a proper removal firm, renting a car/van or just taking a taxi depends how far and how much stuff you have (and to an extent how good you are at packing).

      As the population grows and housing costs increase

      In most of the developed world it's trending the other way round.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    83. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you've finished being a smug aspie cunt try reading it again, paying attention to the key word "anymore".

    84. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Lisias · · Score: 1

      It's fun to settle in with a nicely illustrated classic sometimes, but when I'm standing in line at the Post Office, I want to read a few paragraphs of the latest romance or fantasy or science fiction or literature that I'm reading. I know the book might not be a keeper. I know the book might not be something my descendants want to read. I'm good with that. Not every little brain leaving of mine needs to be advertised on my shelves or left to my future grandkids.

      Yep. For this kind of reading, there's that cheap, newspaper printed, pocket books. With a bonus: I can trade two, already read, pocket books for another one on the used books store near my home. :-)

      Funny thing is... I also have a Nook, brought one to carry my technical reference material with me while commuting to work. Since it's very hard to look forward to choose what book will be needed in the day, it happened that my Nook Classic is the best tool available to me to read these technical readings.

      But honestly, I could not managed to use it for anything else unless, well, to read one or two downloaded e-books, which printed version were too expensive to me to import from Amazon ... =]

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    85. Re:An e-book is not a book. by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      Walls lined with books make the best wallpaper. There's something about the scent they impart to the room ... it's a pleasant sort of ambiance that always makes me feel comfortable. But ... to each his own.

    86. Re:An e-book is not a book. by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      You are not just whistling dixie, and I'm in the south. One big pipe that they can turn off anytime they like, slow down anytime they like, or adulterate anytime they like. Seems much like being plugged into the ministry of information, and paying a premium. Hey, is that like G4?

    87. Re:An e-book is not a book. by Checklist · · Score: 0

      Its fantastic to have space to put real books in to enhance the beauty of the home. Also my wargames and albums. So nice to have a really good piece of furniture. And it passes the power of reading to the younger ones. Digital once again reducing the average brain power to zero. I see Encylcopaedia Britannica has gone online and presumed that people dont like to idle through nice collections of glossy articles. Oh well once everyone has pirated the whole lot bye bye Britannica. Hard to pirate a treasured set of properly bound beautiful books.Sick of Wikipaedia-every article has had some busybody edit telling us how many problems this article has and there seems to be a disease known as citation needed.

  3. Depends on the book by evil_aaronm · · Score: 5, Informative

    If it's something unwieldy or I know I'll be flipping back and forth between pages, or need to see multiple pages simultaneously, like Practical Electronics for Inventors, I'll buy the paper book. If it's a novel, or casual reading, I can go with e-book format. That said, I donated to a local library a lot of my old books: I hadn't read them in years, and most anything I need to know, now-a-days, I just Google for. For technical information, it's quicker to Google it than look it up in a book.

    1. Re:Depends on the book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trade off is that the information you find on Google is often less technical and less deep than what you would find in a book on the subject. It works great for things you already know about though.

  4. Books by toygeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They don't need batteries
    You can buy them used without DRM
    They smell interesting
    Old books have their own story aside from what is printed in them
    Each book feels different
    Do not require infrastructure to maintain
    I don't have to buy something to reads my book- I just buy the book, the "reader" is free.

    While an e-book is technically the same thing, content wise, the *experience* of reading a book is something that cannot be duplicated. A large, LARGE portion of the population apparently agrees.

    1. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A large portion of the population is technically and otherwise illiterate. Or of low enough level that they don't do much reading and don't set up their own electronics.

      I do agree that for quick reference, a paper book is hard to beat, but it's hard to believe that an ebook won't be as efficient any time soon. With more power and a better display, I could definitely see them being easier to search.

      As far as the "experience" goes, only hardcore bookworms are likely to consider that to be desirable. I've read paper books and they're not ergonomic at all. My Nook Glow OTOH can be read in the dark and I can prop it up, only touching the thing when I need to turn the page. I can also search for text in it, which is something I've never been able to do with a paper book.

      What's more, I can bring an entire collection of books with me when I travel. Ebooks don't really require infrastructure, if you've gotten to the point where that's an issue, you've probably got other things to worry about. Yes, you do have a point about electricity, but you can do a ton of reading on a charge.

      And I don't have to buy any books, I can just check them out electronically on my computer without even having to leave the home. Seriously, it looks like you're going way out of your way to bash ebooks without similarly bashing paper books for their flaws.

    2. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not require infrastructure to maintain

      My library shelves disagree with you.

      Excuse me, I need to add another wing.

    3. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They don't need batteries
      Do not require infrastructure to maintain

      No, instead of batteries, you require shelves, lots and lots of shelves in a clean, dry environment.

      You can buy them used without DRM

      You're generalising, not all vendors do this.

      While an e-book is technically the same thing, content wise, the *experience* of reading a book is something that cannot be duplicated. A large, LARGE portion of the population apparently agrees.

      That LARGE portion of the population is aging, the technophobes will still hate tablets and e-readers, but this is the future, it will take a lot more decades though, until the percentages switch.

      They smell interesting

      NOT a feature, having asthma, like an ever growing percentage of the population, I can tell you, dusty books, are not something I enjoy being around, let alone read.

      Here's one thing that you neglected to mention about e-books: They cost almost nothing to publish. It means a lot of rubbish makes it through, but a lot more good authors will get published. With paper books, I guarantee, that over the past hundred years millions of manuscripts became forgotten, because of the printing costs.

      The future is here and now. I have thousands of books on my tablet all in a 350 grams package, which I can back up anywhere and any time.

      Honestly, you people make me think of those monks handwriting books, calling the ban of the printing press. WTF!

    4. Re:Books by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      They also can be easily lent around to anyone and everyone.

      They are cheap enough to be left on a bench or a seat if you finish and don't want to keep it.

      Even more importantly, they still work even after being soaked in water.

      They also are really easy to use.

      If you're freedom oriented, you can print and distribute your own books without having to explain how to use it (part of the reason Baen books signed up with Amazon was so readers don't have to go through a bunch of steps to sideload books).

    5. Re:Books by thegarbz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They don't need batteries

      I'm sorry this is one of the lamest arguments I have heard. Your typical e-book reader will last MONTHS in the hands of a heavy reader without recharge. The most common problem around our house is that by the time these things need charging we need to try and actually find the charger.

    6. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't agree with some of these points, like interesting smell or old books having their own story. The smell of a book, I simply don't care about, the old books having their own story I find true with very, very old books, but that is pretty much only important for that one old book a person owns unless they are a collector of old books, in which case books become supperior for things that other people may not care about. Same with all books feel different. Most books sold will feel nearly identical.

      The benefits of e-readers are, you can get old books, for free, easily (http://www.gutenberg.org/). Oh, without DRM.
      You can easily get books from people who self publish them. Often without DRM as well.
      Its one small, portable device to take all your books (or a huge subset) of them with you.
      The books don't break, and even if the reader does, you only have to replace that one to have all your books back.
      It is way easier to read from an e-reader (if you are just continously reading forward). I have read from both books and e-readers, the e-readers are way easier. No pages to turn, no big bulky books with pages being annoying, the pages are always flat and easily readable, the book weights nothing at all, and maybe most importantly, its easy to take the books with you.
      Another benefit of an e-reader that can handle enough formats, is that you can use it for more than just books. It has really cut down on the number of paper and the weight of my backpack that I have to take to school.

      Its very much up to the person, but I would not trade in my e-reader for the annoying experience that books were. I am very happy with it and maybe thats because I am an engineer and the "romantic value" of books really has no message to me, but I would call an e-reader a more efficient device than a book.

    7. Re:Books by Knuckles · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Amazon claims the Kindle will run for 8 weeks w/o using wifi and a reading time of 30 minutes per day. That's not "months".

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    8. Re:Books by Zumbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That LARGE portion of the population is aging

      And as they age, their eyesight will deteriorate, leaving many of them with a choice between audio books, books with large print or ebooks where the font size can be adjusted. Wonder what they will pick?

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    9. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only valuable point you make here is that you can lent your book. Which is true and something I do miss with an e-reader. But it has been replaced with other things I can do with the e-reader that you can't do with a book.

      They stop working when soaked, in most cases, at the very least they will not last much longer.

      I also doubt your last reason is true. Since Baen clearly still has its own site where they publish books as well (http://www.baenebooks.com/), it seems any signing up with amazon was more about allowing his books to be gotten from multiple places and having more visibility than downloading from his own site having been too hard for people.

    10. Re:Books by darkfeline · · Score: 1
      I don't necessarily disagree with you, but

      They don't need batteries

      Neither does a hard drive, and a hard drive can store MUCH more data, it's not even comparable. Now, you need a computer to read it, but don't you need light to read a book?

      You can buy them used without DRM

      You can get ebooks without DRM, and you can replicate and distribute them infinitely. Can you do that with a physical book? Nope.

      They smell interesting

      ...Oookay. Whatever floats your boat.

      Old books have their own story aside from what is printed in them

      True, but everything has a story. Even ebooks (well, DRM free ebooks anyway). Maybe it was passed around piratebay (hopefully legally). Maybe someone edited it a little before passing it on. Someone ripped it to text, translated it, signed it with PGP key, etc. etc. Another guy saw some typos and fixed them. And so on. There's no reason why electronic books have less "history" than paper ones.

      Each book feels different

      I suppose I'll let this one slide.

      Do not require infrastructure to maintain

      Oh yeah? Leave a book outside and see how long it'll last. Books require a LOT of special infrastructure to maintain: acid-free paper, acid-free ink, stringent temperature and humidity control, and most importantly, lots of SPACE. On the other hand, as long as a hard drive is kept online, you don't need too much maintenance, and unlike paper books, can easily be copied thousands of times to thousands of separate hard drives, and even with hundreds of redundant copies, still takes up less physical space.

      I don't have to buy something to reads my book- I just buy the book, the "reader" is free.

      Arguably not so. Everything has an initial cost. There's a lot of upfront cost to be able to read a book: you have to learn the language, learn to read written text, possibly invest in a light, dictionary, bookmark or magnifier, as well as have a place to keep the book, as well as a way to carry the book around if you travel. Now, you can argue that the upfront cost for ebooks is greater, but the marginal benefit-to-cost ratio is much higher.

      While an e-book is technically the same thing, content wise, the *experience* of reading a book is something that cannot be duplicated.

      Neither can reading a paper book duplicate the experience of reading an e-book.

      A large, LARGE portion of the population apparently agrees.

      There's a logical fallacy here. Just because you don't like/buy ebooks because of these reasons, doesn't mean everyone who doesn't buy ebooks agrees.

    11. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You can buy them used without DRM
      They smell interesting"

      You bet! That's from the many trips to the bathroom the former owner did.

    12. Re:Books by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      problem is, books infest the world almost as much as used cars, and unlike a used car you cant give them away

    13. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 1

      That makes me think that my mother really likes ebooks because with the large font setting she can read without her glasses.

    14. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 0

      8 weeks is "months", sorry.

    15. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 1

      It's a standard micro-USB charger. You should have plenty of those. Good phones use the same cable.

    16. Re:Books by Knuckles · · Score: 0

      With a reading time of 30 minutes per day ...

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    17. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit. My mum just told me that she couldn't see her books to read any more (glaucoma). She hadn't been able to read properly for months and hadn't told anyone.

      I gave her my old Kindle (now called a Kindle Keyboard) and showed her how to adjust the font size - and she absolutely loves it.

    18. Re:Books by megalomaniacs4u · · Score: 1

      A heavy reader - does more than 30 minutes a day - that would be a light reader...

      I read 2-4 hours per day if I can afford the time (zero otherwise). I charge my kindle every couple of weeks if reading heavily on it, then again i'm doing 50/50 kindle to paper..

    19. Re:Books by whoop · · Score: 1

      8 weeks = 56 days * 0.5 hours per day = 28 hours per charge. So, yeah, when the world comes to an end and the lucky few that get to survive the apocalypse are fighting over canned foods, you'll happily be able to read for a couple days.

      On the other hand, if you enjoy the benefits of an ereader in modern society, go for it. The paper-book folks can have their collections in their fallout shelters and be just as happy.

    20. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Yes, because the apocalypse is really something you need to prepare for.
      How about living in the real world instead?

      As a side note, if you want to survive in the apocalypse, you'd better set up a system to have electricity anyway...

    21. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of averages?

    22. Re:Books by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

      You have to buy them used without DRM

      Big difference.

      Even though you can buy kindle books without DRM, the fact that some of them have DRM poisons the well.

      Now, if you want to lend someone an e-book, you have to think about whether it has DRM or not. If it was a physical book that doesn't enter into the equation.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    23. Re:Books by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry this is one of the lamest arguments I have heard. Your typical e-book reader will last MONTHS in the hands of a heavy reader without recharge. The most common problem around our house is that by the time these things need charging we need to try and actually find the charger.

      That doesn't stop you from having a "doh" moment when you realize it's out and you're not near an outlet. Same as Steam's offline mode is great if you've planned to be offline and checked that it works, but it sucks when the service is down and for some reason it insists on connecting to the mothership before you can play. Same if it breaks, if it happens often you're doing it wrong but it's almost impossible to "break" a book, while I have managed to damage a netbook because the suitcase got flipped around by the airport system until the netbook was stuck at an angle and all the heavy stuff landed on top of it. Books always work and are all but indestructible.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    24. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for such a thorough point-by-point rebuttal of all the points made in favour of ebooks. I guess that settles it, paper books really are superior.

    25. Re:Books by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      They stop working when soaked, in most cases, at the very least they will not last much longer.

      Maybe, but when that happens, you've lost a $5-10 paperback instead of a $100-900 reader/tablet.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    26. Re:Books by PhotoJim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I favour physical books over ebooks by a large margin, but this is an undeniable advantage of ebooks. No special large print edition is required.

      In fairness a person can use a magnifier on a paper book, but they're usable on any eInk ebook reader too (LCD displays are probably not as fun to read when magnified, Apple Retina possibly excepted). But when you can increase the font size yourself, that makes life a lot easier.

      I'm only 45... but I have my Kindle set to be one font size bigger than default just to make it a little more comfortable to use.

    27. Re:Books by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      If the books truly have no value, put them in your recycling bin and away you go.

    28. Re:Books by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      Quebec suffered a massive ice storm in the 1990s. Some areas lacked electricity for several months.

      The apocalypse need not be nuclear.

      I imagine there are still areas of New Jersey that lack electricity due to Hurricane Sandy.

    29. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, instead of batteries, you require shelves, lots and lots of shelves in a clean, dry environment.

      Are you suggesting that your ebook library works well when wet?

      Here's one thing that you neglected to mention about e-books: They cost almost nothing to publish. It means a lot of rubbish makes it through, but a lot more good authors will get published.

      And the good authors ebooks cost just as much to buy as their paper books. Are you suggesting that encouraging people to read bad books is a feature?

      The future is here and now. I have thousands of books on my tablet all in a 350 grams package, which I can back up anywhere and any time.

      The future is 20 years from now. Let me know if your library is still usable then, when your 350 gram e-reader is an oversized museum piece and Amazon has declared bankruptcy.

      Ebooks serve a great niche: people who want to read something - anything - today, but aren't really interested in ever re-reading it. Honestly, that's most people. Most people read books like they watch movies or TV sports: they're a great, immediate distraction, and it's enough to carry the memory of whatever story or emotion the distraction evoked. There's also a lot of people who want the physical reminder of the story, or who want to go back to their favorite bits of language (not just the story, but the actual, specific words chosen by a really clever author) again and again. There's a lot of people who like to be able to share those favorite stories with friends, or children, or grandchildren, and you'll never be able to serve that niche with ebooks. (There's also a few of people who enjoy the artistic composition of a beautifully illuminated text, but they, unfortunately, are mostly stuck with museum copies of 600 year old manuscripts)

    30. Re:Books by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

      Books:
      They rot in a couple hundred years.
      Can't bludgeon bandits with them.
      A little water destroys them instantly.

      CLAY TABLETS FTW!

    31. Re:Books by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Now, if you want to lend someone an e-book, you have to think about whether it has DRM or not.

      One word: Calibre.

      Buy eBook, remove DRM, Lend eBook as desired. Or not.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    32. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick everyone, gather around! Someone is arguing that their preference is the best way for everyone! And if it's not the best way, why, you must be some backwoods Okie who shops at Wal-Mart!

    33. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Just get your independent electricity generator if you're that concerned...

    34. Re:Books by Seraphim_72 · · Score: 1
      Here's one thing that you neglected to mention about e-books: They cost almost nothing to publish. It means a lot of rubbish makes it through, but a lot more good authors will get published. With paper books, I guarantee, that over the past hundred years millions of manuscripts became forgotten, because of the printing costs.


      And here is a thing about that that you gloss over, the sheer amount of rubbish. The signal to nose ratio will increase a hundredfold and the few good authors we get out of it won't be worth the amount of garbage people have to wade through to find it. those millions of unpublished you refer to? Sure it might have been cost to prin, after all who would pay money to publish total schlock writing.
      --
      Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
    35. Re:Books by hawguy · · Score: 1

      No, instead of batteries, you require shelves, lots and lots of shelves in a clean, dry environment.

      Are you suggesting that your ebook library works well when wet?

      I think he's suggesting that if you take your "no maintenance" books out of your climate controlled house and store them outside where they are subject to temperature extremes, humidity, insects and rodents, you'll find that they do need infrastructure after all. After my dad passed away, my siblings and I helped clear out a lot of junk from my parents basement - they had a lot of books stored in the basement, a basement that had a humidity problem. We threw away hundreds of books that were covered in mold and bindings were falling apart.

      That doesn't imply the the eReader doen't need the same climate controlled environment, but it's easier to keep it stored on the bedside table than 20 shelves of books. And when the roof leaks after a heavy rain, you can move the eReader to the other side of the bed to keep it dry, rather than having to scramble around to protect and dry out your book shelves.

      Charging the eReader once a month is not really an inconvenience for me since I charge my phone every night - if I let the battery get too low the worst that happens is that I have to keep the USB cable plugged in while I read. I'm not too worried about being able to read in an extended power outage, I can charge it from the car if I really want to read, and if a power outage lasts longer than the month long battery lifetime of the eReader, well, I'm probably worried about more than reading. Plus I can read in the dark with the eReader and its built in light.

      The future is 20 years from now. Let me know if your library is still usable then, when your 350 gram e-reader is an oversized museum piece and Amazon has declared bankruptcy.

      I always strip the DRM from my eBooks, so my unencrypted eBook files will remain readable forever - the file formats are published, so there will always be software to read them. My Kindle may not be here in 20 years, but the eBooks will remain. What happens to books if you have a fire or flood? My eBooks (along with the rest of my data) are backed up to a cloud storage provider, so even if my house goes up in flames, my eBooks will remain safe).

    36. Re:Books by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Quebec suffered a massive ice storm in the 1990s. Some areas lacked electricity for several months.

      The apocalypse need not be nuclear.

      I imagine there are still areas of New Jersey that lack electricity due to Hurricane Sandy.

      Recharge from your car, or if you don't have a car, invest in a 5 or 10W solar charger and a day of sunlight will give you weeks of reading - if your eBook reader has a light, you can even read in the dark.

      But if my house was without power for months, it would be uninhabitable in the winter since my furnace requires electricity. I'd either need to find a source of power, or a new place to live.

    37. Re:Books by hawguy · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry this is one of the lamest arguments I have heard. Your typical e-book reader will last MONTHS in the hands of a heavy reader without recharge. The most common problem around our house is that by the time these things need charging we need to try and actually find the charger.

      That doesn't stop you from having a "doh" moment when you realize it's out and you're not near an outlet. Same as Steam's offline mode is great if you've planned to be offline and checked that it works, but it sucks when the service is down and for some reason it insists on connecting to the mothership before you can play. Same if it breaks, if it happens often you're doing it wrong but it's almost impossible to "break" a book, while I have managed to damage a netbook because the suitcase got flipped around by the airport system until the netbook was stuck at an angle and all the heavy stuff landed on top of it. Books always work and are all but indestructible.

      Unless I'm traveling, I'm never more than 15 minutes from a power outlet - even my train has some outlets if you know where to look.

      When I travel, I carry along a 5000mAH USB charge pack. Mainly for my phone, but it would work for recharging the Kindle too. I've never broken a kindle, but they are cheap enough that it's not worth worrying about - if I break it, Amazon can have a new one here tomorrow.

      Books always work and are indestructable if you keep them away from water - try reading a book while waiting for your train in the rain, then try the same thing with a Kindle in a baggie.

    38. Re:Books by russotto · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting that your ebook library works well when wet?

      My eBook library exists on a couple of different hard drives, and a large part of it can still be re-downloaded from the publisher.

      The future is 20 years from now. Let me know if your library is still usable then, when your 350 gram e-reader is an oversized museum piece and Amazon has declared bankruptcy.

      Why wouldn't it be? It's nearly all in .epub format, which is a thin wrapper around slightly-customized XHTML, which itself is just marked-up text. The exceptions are PDF, which isn't going anywhere in a mere 20 years. Some of my paper books won't be around, though -- non-acid-free paper turns to brown dust within a few decades.

      And if DRM is the objection, I have a personal policy of not buying any eBook I can't remove the DRM from. The only time I violated that policy is when I needed an example of a DRMed book to learn to remove it.

      There's also a lot of people who want the physical reminder of the story, or who want to go back to their favorite bits of language (not just the story, but the actual, specific words chosen by a really clever author) again and again.

      And eBooks work great for the latter, especially since you can search for the phrase.

      There's a lot of people who like to be able to share those favorite stories with friends, or children, or grandchildren, and you'll never be able to serve that niche with ebooks.

      I can do it now. It might not be legal, but that's a problem with the law, not with the books. If the paper book industry had had their way, you wouldn't be able to legally resell or loan them either -- early "EULA"s were restrictions printed inside book covers telling you what you could not do with the book.

    39. Re:Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wonder what they will pick?
      I have picked up a young lover with good eyesight to read the books for me.

    40. Re:Books by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      Preparing for some sort of cataclysmic event is prudent. Given human history and the fact that we have nuclear weapons something IS eventually going to happen. It might not even be in our lifetimes, but the bunker in the back yard is good for a few hundred years anyways, maybe the kids or grandkids will be grateful it got built.

    41. Re:Books by loufoque · · Score: 1

      You're suffering from paranoia.

    42. Re:Books by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      According to my grandfather, magnifying lenses are very tiresome to use to read more than a few paragraphs.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    43. Re:Books by Ironhandx · · Score: 1

      You're suffering from never having read any history textbook... the years of peace in human history are fewer than the years of war.

      Beyond that, anything could happen. Climate change, a meteor, yellowstone blowing its top.... hurricanes... etc... etc.. disasters happen all the time, its blind fucking stupidity not to be prepared for something.

    44. Re:Books by rochrist · · Score: 1

      I know mine is barely good for a week.

    45. Re:Books by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      While an e-book is technically the same thing, content wise, the *experience* of reading a book is something that cannot be duplicated.

      I agree, I'm disappointed in my ebook as I no longer have to hold the book open. The pages don't flip closed on me. My backpack/suitcase is lighter.

    46. Re:Books by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      I like my kindle, But books not needing batteries, is not a lame argument. Books can be read at the beginning and end of flights. And while a kindle will last a while, you said it yourself, you might forget or can't find the charger.

    47. Re:Books by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      Seems a lot less work just to read paper books.

    48. Re:Books by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      This was winter. It was an ice storm.

      People managed, but it was a pretty disruptive event. 1997, I think, is when it happened.

      Such an event will inevitably happen again.

    49. Re:Books by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      While an e-book is technically the same thing, content wise, the *experience* of reading a book is something that cannot be duplicated. A large, LARGE portion of the population apparently agrees.

      When I grew up my mother was head librarian at the local library, I was usually there at least a couple of hours every day after school. Our home was filled with books. I read *a lot* of paper books, since I was about ten I have always had at least one book with me wherever I go. I have every reason to be one of those luddites.

      However, a few years back I got my first e-ink reader, and haven't read a paper book since. For some of us the content of the book is what matters, it's what gives me the "experience" of reading, and to me the electronic reader is a far superior packaging than paper. I'm very happy that I'm rid of the "experience" of paper books. I agree that the lack of used ebooks is non-optimal, but to me the low price of ebooks + easy deDRM possibilities makes up for that, along with the availability of a huge amount of legal free books. Otherwise, none of the points on your list is even relevant. I certainly don't need a certain smell to keep me entertained... I have never been close to running out of battery (my reading habits gives me something like 2-3 weeks of battery endurance), and my reader in its cover is sturdier than a paperback. I can even read in humid conditions with an appropriate plastic bag, which is somewhat impractical with a paper book :)

      I get a feeling that many "paper book hipsters" don't actually read much. I go through 2-4 books weekly, and the ease of buying and transporting ebooks *alone* is a weighty selling point for e-ink. A nice side effect is that it's trivial to read books in parallel, I can decide on the spot if I will hunker down with another chunk of Dostoyevsky or just pass some time with a crime or science fiction story; this was seldom a real option when I dragged paper books around.

      By all means, enjoy your paper books, but saying that they are simply superior to ebooks suggests to me that you don't read enough for logistics to become annoying, or maybe haven't even given e-ink a try. I don't really care what the majority does, the majority also feels that a cell phone is good enough for gaming and don't maintain a gaming rig at all, which is about as pertinent to this discussion as how they feel about ebooks and pbooks :)

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    50. Re:Books by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Amazon claims the Kindle will run for 8 weeks w/o using wifi and a reading time of 30 minutes per day. That's not "months".

      And leaving it plugged in for ten minutes every time you load a book will keep your battery full. If you use wireless, you'll still spend *a lot* more time charging your cell phone than your e-ink device. In four years of e-ink reading I've never been close to depleting the battery. Seriously, this is such a non-issue that I'm amazed someone invariably brings it up every freaking time ebooks/pbooks are discussed.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    51. Re:Books by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      You have valid points. But nevertheless the guy I replied to was simply wrong when he said, "Your typical e-book reader will last MONTHS in the hands of a heavy reader without recharge."

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    52. Re:Books by hawguy · · Score: 1

      This was winter. It was an ice storm.

      People managed, but it was a pretty disruptive event. 1997, I think, is when it happened.

      Such an event will inevitably happen again.

      Right, and a hundred thousand people frozen out of their homes lived in shelters.

      Like I said, without power, my home would be uninhabitable in the winter - no heat, no water, not even a toilet. My ability to read a book would be the least of my concerns.

    53. Re:Books by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      That doesn't stop you from having a "doh" moment when you realize it's out and you're not near an outlet.

      I use my e-ink reader a lot, and that's never happened to me. It's really quite trivial to avoid, and a complete non-issue with e-ink readers.

      ...while I have managed to damage a netbook because the suitcase got flipped around by the airport system until the netbook was stuck at an angle and all the heavy stuff landed on top of it.

      On a side note I would advise you to never check in electronics. Apart from physical abuse it can be extremely cold (-60 C), I've had CDs destroyed from frost in the luggage compartment.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    54. Re:Books by PhotoJim · · Score: 1

      That's a lot of time to kill. You'd need every escape you could get.

    55. Re:Books by hawguy · · Score: 1

      That's a lot of time to kill. You'd need every escape you could get.

      And since I won't be living in my house where I have my shelves full of books, good thing I have my books on my Kindle (that I can recharge once every few weeks at the shelter).

    56. Re:Books by spitzig · · Score: 1

      Here's one thing that you neglected to mention about e-books: They cost almost nothing to publish.

      The cost almost nothing to publish, but the used price is not a question with ebooks. Sometimes used books are priced at a percentage of the original cover price. Since I like old books, and paperbacks have the same content, I've bought books for a dime.

      It means a lot of rubbish makes it through, but a lot more good authors will get published.

      This will mean that instead of the publisher determining whether you know about an author, it will be advertisers or some similar type of middle man.

      With paper books, I guarantee, that over the past hundred years millions of manuscripts became forgotten, because of the printing costs.

      In the next hundred years, billions of works will be forgotten because no one cares about them. That will include ebooks. Even if they are still recorded in some universally available library, a small percentage of those books will actually be read.

      I am not particular to the format of "the book". It is cheap and durable. I also like that it allows me to actually SEE a lot of my knowledge/entertainment-I can see the spines of lots of my books. It gives me a sense of comfort that I don't get from flipping through a list. I look forward to a future where that knowledge/entertainment is easier to access. But, it's not here.

    57. Re:Books by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Good point! I had a one-week outage due to a bad ice storm, and without heat, I had to stay at my mom's. I didn't have an e-reader at that time, but if I had, it would have been much easier to charge it at my mom's than to pack a bunch of paper books from my cold house to read at hers.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    58. Re:Books by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      That makes me think that my mother really likes ebooks because with the large font setting she can read without her glasses.

      My wife is of the age when you start to get long-sighted, and she definitely likes ebooks for that reason.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    59. Re:Books by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      The best way to prepare for a disaster is to live somewhere where your fucking government won't hang you out to dry if something goes wrong.

      Anything on the scale of full out nuclear war or an extinction-level meteor aren't worth worrying about, as nothing you can do will make any difference other than blind luck as to where you are.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    60. Re:Books by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      Well gosh, if just anybody could read, there's no telling what rubbish might fall out of their heads.

    61. Re:Books by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      I've spent a year trying to rehab a copy of a book soaked in water by a leaking car. It involves a freezer and a hairdryer and is not a task for the impatient. Otherwise, the pages stick together, and will never open again.

      I read in the bath. I only read ebooks there. I stick a cheap eInk reader in a Ziplock with a packet of silica gel, and don't worry about humidity.

      I've got most of Baen's back-catalog loaded on there, most of which I get on their bonus-content CDs. Free and free!

  5. I read ebooks all the time by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I read ebooks on my computer. When I'm sitting in front of my desktop computer, I use that. When I'm sitting in front of my netbook, I log into my desktop from there and read on that. That way the page that I left off at is always synchronized.

    The computer holds the book for me so all I have to do is sit back and read -- hit the space bar once in a while to turn the page.

    If I find a reference that I want to follow up on (what in the world is a medieval chatelaine?) I can immediately look it up and research that as much as I wish to.

    What's not to like?

    I can't remember the last time I read a book on paper. It's been at least a few years...

    --
    If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
  6. Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by geek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I prefer reading e-books. I haven't read a paper book in years. That said I've given serious thought to moving away from ebooks simply because of the prices and DRM. I can loan a book once to my wife via kindle or I can just buy the paper book and give it to her or anyone else when done.

    What I've been doing lately is stripping the DRM via Calibre and giving the books I buy away to my mom, wife and mother in-law. I have no moral issue with this since I could do it with a paper book too. But if DRM changes and prices keep going up like they have, then I'm going to say fuck it and go back to paper books.

    1. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep. The only downfall I see (other than a back-lit screen kind of sucks for reading) is DRM and the inability to maintain ebooks if the world came to an end. One of those can eventually be dealt with; the other not so much. Either way, I'm a big fan of keeping things on the digital side, where I don't have to have my life and home cluttered with crap, like generations before us.

      But, man, that DRM thing . . . is really a major killjoy. The only real stab against fully embracing digital.

      It's hard not to love the idea of having more content on a device that you can carry in your hand than you could store in your home, even if you turned every wall into a stack of filled shelves. Unfortunately, publishing is like every other content industry. They have to be kicked dragging and screaming into the modern world and undermine their own interests every step of the way, by doing things to drive customers *away* and foster ill-will with them.

    2. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't read a paper book in years.

      So what do you do when you encounter a book that isn't available in digital format?

      Do you just forego the knowledge contained in that book?

    3. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are plenty of other downsides. When you have 1 device to view N books, you can only do so serially. With paper books, each book has its own built in "screen" and you can open several of them on a table. With paper books, you can look up references easily without typing, whereas ebook readers are really designed to be easy for linear traversal only - just like an audio "book" - but quite unwieldy for random access. With paper books, there are several sizes to suit the content, whereas ebook readers force you to zoom around and tap the screen or some buttons unnecessarily when the size isn't right. Finally, with paper books you get two pages open at the same time, saving you a lot of fiddling with pages that you have to do with ebooks. There's nothing worse to break your concentration than having to press a "next" button after every second paragraph.

    4. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Zumbs · · Score: 2

      Yeah, the DRM thing is quite annoying. Fortunately, more and more publishers are starting to offer their books DRM free, e.g. Baen Books and Tor/Macmillan, so I make it a point to only buy unencumbered ebooks. Many vendors do not make it easy to see which books are DRM free and which are DRM chained, though.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    5. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by rdebath · · Score: 2

      All you really have to realise is that the DRM thing is a con.

      Those people claiming that DRM software can stop anyone getting a non-DRM copy are wrong. DRM can do two things

      1. Make it more difficult for a "legitimate" user to get at the data
      2. Prevent EVERYONE, including "legitimate" users accessing the data.

      For the people that DRM is supposed to stop, one of them has to do a little work. All the rest have an easier time than any "legitimate" user.

      DRM on Ebooks is actually one of the easiest to break; the data rate is so low compared to audio or video that the "analog hole" is a very reasonable way of un-DRMing the data.

      So the correct solution for you as a user is to buy a "DRM copy" so that you're a "legitimate" user and then download the "pirate" non-DRM version to actually use. Please don't forget the first step ... um.

    6. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Just don't download any crap with DRM.

    7. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      I also do the DRM stripping thing but all my family's Kindles are registered to the same Amazon account so it's really not an issue. If brother / girlfriend / whoever wants to read a book then they're all in the same shared pool.

      I have a mixture of eBooks and paper books, the thing I really love about my Kindle is that all the old out-of-copyright books are free and easy to get. Some older books are difficult to find on paper these days, and without stuff like Gutenberg (though many of them are available for free from Amazon) I'd never have been able to read some of them.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
    8. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by whoop · · Score: 2

      Amazon and Nook make their reader apps available on a myriad of devices, PC, Mac, tablets, phones, etc. So, you could open a collection of books on just as many devices as you want. Even the same book on two different pages!!

      Look up references without typing? Well, you still have to look? That's just a weird qualifier. Hitting a search button and typing a reference word isn't that complicated compared to flipping to the index, then back to the needed page.

      Paper books have several sizes? How many books make editions with a dozen font sizes (times a dozen different fonts)? You pretty much get standard and large print for old folks. I want my books in Comic Sans 30pt, dammit! Show me a Harry Potter book in that font.

      All your arguments are pointless, coming down to personal preference. And that's just fine. Neither is going away. All you folks arguing here have fallen for this article's stupid premise that there can be only one. Linux isn't the only computer OS. White isn't the only wall paint. And a Prius isn't the only car available. Different stuff for whatever suits you. Relax.

    9. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Amazon and Nook make their reader apps available on a myriad of devices, PC, Mac, tablets, phones, etc. So, you could open a collection of books on just as many devices as you want.

      Right - so if I want more than two or three (e-reader, smartphone, laptop) books open at a time... I have to spend hundreds of dollars per device in order to open another book. That's neither very economical or convenient.

    10. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by whoop · · Score: 1

      Yes! YOU MUST! That is the only way! Aren't you listening?? There are not and there will never be paper books. Do it NOW!!

    11. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Leti · · Score: 1

      or you use calibre on the pc and it opens up a window for each ebook? then you compare multiple side by side. much much easier than doing it with paper books, specially since to do something similar with a real book you probably have to either find something heavy to put on the book to keep the page open or break the spine. not that i can actually see why you would do this more than once or twice in your life.

    12. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      That would be useful, if I only ever had to open multiple books in my computer room.

      And you've never heard of bookmarks?

      Nor do you have the imagination to think that just because *you* never do something, somebody else must never do it too. (I do it almost on a daily basis when I'm deep in culinary research, for just one example.)

    13. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if DRM changes and prices keep going up like they have, then I'm going to say fuck it and go back to paper books.

      Just download the shit free off bittorrent. Crisis averted. Headache cured.

    14. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that some publishers offer DRM-free books. If you want to encourage this then avoid DRM books whenever possible. Don't buy books that you don't need if they have DRM. Support the DRM-free publishers so the others die or surrender.

    15. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by Leti · · Score: 1

      so... if you're using bookmarks that probably means they aren't actually all open at the same time? If they are how does a bookmark help to keep them open? and how do you do it without something heavy to keep the book open? and if you are using bookmarks and don't have them all open why not use a tablet/ e-reader?

      On my phone I use an app called aldiko which keeps a handy list of all the recent books I've read and also automatically goes to the last page I had open in that book. If I don't want to go to that page then I hit menu and then the goto option which lets me go to any bookmark or notes or highlights in the book. How is that not better than having a large space/table with multiple books on it and having to keep track of multiple bookmarks manually?

      Maybe you just don't have the imagination to do something in a new and better way?

    16. Re:Love my kindle and my Nexus 7 by rleesBSD · · Score: 1
      Yes, the DRM thing sucks. But, as an author who has published several books, I can tell you that the publishers don't have a clue about how to make this new market work to every persons benefit. Too many people are dishonest. I originally put my volumes out on the market in two tiers :
      • 1 ) A creative commons, non-commercial use, no derivatives tier.
      • 2 ) A commercial tier (usually the paperback).

      My idea was that the ebook version could be bought, and the freebie would drive sales to the commercial version. I know that most people still prefer paper. Well, guess what happened? In spite of the creative commons non-com/no-derivative license, all kinds of shysters came out of the woodwork, took the free ebook version, and sold it in PAPERBACK form for more than my LIST PRICE!!!! They plastered their ads all over the internet! I can't really say I'd do that again, except for a book from which I expect no revenue.

  7. I don't even know anyone with a tablet or e-device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It comes as no surprise that this market is a flop. It's like lots of markets. There probably is a demand. There just isn't that much demand in the long hault. People buy these devices as toys. They are like organizers of the past (while many of us did use them they weren't critical and many others bought them who didn't need them at all). The same can be said for netbooks, tablets, and the i******.

  8. I wonder... by Ikonoclasm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is there any data on e-reader habits based on age? As with most technological sea changes, there's resistance in the older generations that gradually evaporates. With e-readers, I'd very much expect a bit of a downswing in sales right after the initial surge. The less tech-friendly are convinced that easy-to-use e-readers are worth having by those young folk who know what they're talking about, but then decide that maybe they're not so keen on it after all. Meanwhile, the younger generations are adopting it at a steady pace that's only visible when you look at sales in specific demographics. I don't know if my hypothesis holds water or not, but from personal experience, this is not a new phenomenon.

    1. Re:I wonder... by Osgeld · · Score: 2

      I will give you a sample from my personal life

      I and my wife are are in our mid 30's and use e-readers
      My mother, her step mother, and father all use e-readers
      her grandmother, who stuggles to use a modern cable box does not

      so in this poll people over 80 do not use e-readers

    2. Re:I wonder... by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      My grandfather (age 87) is considering to buy an iPad to read ebooks. He eyesight is not as good as it has been, and the ability to adjust font size of the book he is reading is a killer app for him. Neither my parents (60something) or my brother (40) owns a dedicated e-reader or tablet. They do have a computer.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    3. Re:I wonder... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      so my poll has a margin of +-2

    4. Re:I wonder... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      PS every ereader will let you adjust the font size

    5. Re:I wonder... by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      I was comparing to paper books that do not have that ability ;-)

      Magnifying glasses are just not very comfortable if you are reading more than a few paragraphs.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    6. Re:I wonder... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      My mother, 70-something, loves her Nook. She bought it after she saw myself, the wife, the daughter using eBook readers one afternoon at her place, and the daughter showed her the variable font-size...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:I wonder... by richieb · · Score: 1

      A big advantage of e-readers for older readers is that you can make the font larger. E-readers open up huge number of books for older folks who do not see as well, that was not available before.

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
    8. Re:I wonder... by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      Yes - font adjustment capability is a really big and good use for e-readers. The publishers don't always provide a "large print" version of the book (14 point or higher font size). My parents (both over 80) each have eyesight better than mine. They should buy the e-reader for me!

  9. Just temporary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see how ebook readers, tablets or other technology won't replace traditional books. Traditional books are way more resource hungry, less usefull and less covnenient. People are always slow to adapt new technologies and the fact that big publishers are refusing to release a lot of books for ebooks because the profit margin might be smaller doesn't help either.

    tl;dr This is merely a setback

  10. PDF killed the ebook by MPAB · · Score: 1

    The ebook lacks the short battery life and sun glare of computer screens, it also is weightless. It was meant to let us carry all of our texts along, but...
    While casual fiction readers tend to be tech unsavy, those of us that are want to carry around complex texts to study from. Sadly there's no right way to get a simple web page into most ebooks without formatting issues. And PDF is the final insult, where words are split without any rules, paragraphs get slaughtered and images disappear into the void.
    Tablets are much better at displaying anything that's not just plain text, but they're cumbersome, more fragile and seldom last for more than a few hours on a charge.

    Ebooks should've come in more than paperback size (I know there are bigger ones, but they cost as much as a midrange tablet) and with enough horsepower to overcome the slow screen when zooming and panning, not to add even more wait time to it.

    1. Re:PDF killed the ebook by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      funny, my wifes nook tablet last a day and a half, and thanks to live wallpaper, and the fact that she constantly plays on it, it never seems to goto sleep

    2. Re:PDF killed the ebook by MPAB · · Score: 1

      Definition of SELDOM

      : in few instances : rarely, infrequently

    3. Re:PDF killed the ebook by Osgeld · · Score: 0

      a constant 36 hours does not fit my definition of !!!!SELDOM!!!!!

    4. Re:PDF killed the ebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly there's no right way to get a simple web page into most ebooks without formatting issues.

      But getting a web page into a hardback is cake.

  11. I don't know by Evtim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems to me that the usefulness of an e-reader/book was spoiled by the industry - both hardware and content. Locking, removing content remotely, DRM books, price of e-books (!!?)....add to that that most readers suck at displaying technical info (most, not all).

    As as consumer I just know how I fell about all those recent "revolutions" - the smart phone, the tablet and the e-reader. They suck, big time, even though the idea is brilliant. I never expected that the phone and the tablet would not be just small computer, fully compatible with your PC. Never expected the price of an e-book to be the same as a paper one. Never expected .the Spanish inquisition..... Our socioeconomic model sucks, people! Even when we have fantastic technologies we make crappy, annoying products that do not expand our horizon but rather lock us in a box and hinder us. No second hand selling, no lending of e-books, cameras from the TV watching if you are not "breaking" the license....just read any random page of news on /. and you will come with at least one example of industry idiocy labeled "for your convenience and enhanced consumer experience" ....

    So, give me back my paper book that I can buy without telling what I had for breakfast and how did my mother's milk taste like. It cost the same as e-book, I can browse through it faster, it is more robust (do you think your files will survive 50-100 years and if they did that there will be compatible device to read them on?), I can give to anyone I like, does not have tracking device that calls home and says what and when I read....thank you!

    1. Re:I don't know by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      Never expected the price of an e-book to be the same as a paper one.

      This may come as a chock for you, but the printing cost of a paper book is something like 10% of the total production price of the book. As far as I can decipher, the only way to get ebooks significantly cheaper is to cut out the middle men (distributors, bookshops and eshops) and buy directly from the publisher/author. However, as the middle men own the market place, most publishers shy away from offering their books at wholesale prices online.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    2. Re:I don't know by tramp · · Score: 1

      I question that. When a book is print ready you have still the costs of printing but you can make infinite digital copies. So the publisher chooses to sell less books with a better margin then lower the price of ebooks and sell a lot more.

    3. Re:I don't know by Kijori · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that the problems that people have with ereaders are really the manufacturers' or publishers' fault. Locking and removing content remotely are irrelevant (and unheard of) to almost everyone; the Kindle's DRM has no impact at all on the common use case of buying your own books. It seems to me that ereaders have done extremely well - the only thing they have failed to do is to live up to the exaggerated predictions of some commentators.

      There are limiting factors on ebooks that I think are inherent rather than being someone's fault. They aren't much good for books where you will want to flick from page to page or scan through for some half-remembered diagram - so a lot of non-fiction is better suited to paper books. They also lack the ability to spontaneously lend them to someone - if a friend is staying over and wants something to read, chances are they don't have their ereader with them. The screen size can never be right for every book you want to read, especially if you want to read newspapers and magazines as well as paperbacks. Those are, I think, bigger problems for the average user than the vague possibility that Amazon might remove their content - and I don't think they are really anyone's fault.

    4. Re:I don't know by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      Source

      In particular, about 80-90% of the cover price of a book has nothing to do with the paper and ink object you buy in a shop; indeed, using current production standards, ebook production requires nearly as much work as paper book production. (Paper and ink are dirt cheap; proofreaders and marketing teams aren't.)

      The author of said post does not provide numbers to back up his claim, but he is a working author with quite a lot of insight into the publishing business. Naturally, the ratio between production cost and printing change with the number of books being printed. But, given that the printing price is quite low, compared to all the other work going into a book, the actual effect is not that big.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    5. Re:I don't know by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I question that number. If you only look at the printing cost, that might be true, but that's not the only part of the cost that depends on the form factor. Every book you buy includes:

      • Shipping costs. The publisher had to ship the books to the distributor. The distributor had to ship the books to the retailer.
      • Warehousing costs. The publisher had to store the printed books. The distributor had to store the printed books. The retailer has to store additional copies of the printed books.
      • Shelf costs. The retailer has to have physical shelf space to hold the printed books in a manner that allows the potential customers to see every book. The retailer has to have enough square footage to hold the shelf space.

      In practice, these costs do not exist for digital books. The publisher distributes only a single digital copy of the book to the retailer, resulting in a negligible distribution cost. The cost of storage for the books is negligible. And apart from the storage cost, the cost of actually delivering the books to the customer is proportional to the number of books sold (or at least to the number of people browsing the website), not proportional to the number of books available.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:I don't know by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      And one could add that you are always sure that your entire "printing run" will be sold. Of the three points, you mentioned, I would hazard the guess that the shelf cost is likely to be the largest. I do not have any hard numbers on anything, just an estimate that may actually be more of a guesstimate.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    7. Re:I don't know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While 80-90% of the price has nothing to do with the physical object, most of that is fixed costs. With negligible marginal costs, eBooks could distribute that fixed cost over a larger volume and come out significantly ahead relative to paper book sales.

    8. Re:I don't know by russotto · · Score: 1

      This may come as a chock for you, but the printing cost of a paper book is something like 10% of the total production price of the book.

      Every time they raise book prices (typically by a lot more than 10%), publishers blame the rising costs of materials and printing. Every time they're challenged on eBook prices, they claim the actual printing costs are small. When are they lying?

    9. Re:I don't know by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      For a big publisher, they need to sell about 10K copies in about 8 weeks for a paper book to be worthwhile.

      They can print very cheaply, but unless you're sure it's going to sell a lot of books there may be only a slight price advantage over print on demand-- suppose you only sell 1/3 of the copies that were printed at $1 each. The cost is effectively $3/copy sold (plus ~$0.20 each for shipping if they were shipped with a bunch of other books). That's only a little cheaper than POD, where it might cost $4.50 per copy for the same book, with POD but the risk of a warehouse full of unsold copies is much smaller, and you don't have a bunch of money tied up in printed copies for a long time. For backlist titles, even the big publishers are starting to print on demand.

    10. Re:I don't know by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      They are actually pretty good at figuring that out. Buyers at the retail and wholesale level will pre-order books in advance. Lean manufacturing keeps the physical books in the warehouse for as little time as possible.

      Retailer pre-orders books from distributor (at 40% discount of cover price)
      Distributor informs publisher of preorder numbers before printing goes into effect
      Printing happens to come as close to pre-order numbers as possible
      Distributor receives books from printer (at 60% discount of cover price)
      Turns around and fulfills Retail preorders
      Books sit on Retail shelves until sold or remaindered/returned for distributor/publisher credit via stripped covers sent back to publisher and the rest of the books chucked into a dumpster.

      Shipping, warehousing, and shelf space costs are all the costs of doing retail business (also, for the upthread poster, those shelf end caps, middle tables, face-outs are *all* marketing real estate for sale to the highest bidder. Books on the middle tables are there because the publishers spent extra money to buy them space).

      Digital books must all be housed on servers, and while the cost and space for a book is negligible, there's the storage of all that customer data, security both physical and virtual for payment/cart information, digital delivery costs, backup/redundancy, power to keep the servers running, etc. Ebooks don't cost "nothing" to sell any more than print books do.

    11. Re:I don't know by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      "So, give me the paper book that I can buy without telling what I had for breakfast and how my mother's milk tasted." -- Don't forget to add "your favorite underwear color" to the authorization requirements! Yes - I prefer the paperback, like you. It's very anonymous, especially if paying with cash. In terms of lending books, Amazon now offers some titles with "lending" authorization.

    12. Re:I don't know by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      That makes a lot of sense. I was unaware that the publishers only get about 40% of the cover price - I figured it to be somewhat higher - but it does make Apple taking 30% seem like quite the bargain for publishers.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
  12. Not necessarily by aztektum · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    It mentions folks are buying tablets instead. Which you can read on, but also play Angry Birds... oo, or watch Netflix! Reading is boring.

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
    1. Re:Not necessarily by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading is so boring you read the article. Thankfully I didn't read your comment, it was boring

  13. I hope he's right ... by Scholasticus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If I buy a copy of a paper book then I own that copy. On an e-reader or a tablet I buy a license that lets me have a copy on a device. Unless I back up my copy, the seller can take it away from me without even asking. Also, there's something about a nice solid bound book that you don't get from an electronic copy. Personally I prefer electronic formats for more ephemeral things (news, computer books that are out of date before they're published, etc.) and bound paper copies for longer lasting things, e.g. Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. I suppose we'll see how things turn out.

    1. Re:I hope he's right ... by sl149q · · Score: 1

      Haven't bought a Real(TM) book in over three years now!

      I simply ran out of room for more physical books (just under 10,000 paperback novels...)

      Reading on an eReader is just as good and the epub files take up far less room.

      Technical documents (PDF's) are reasonably OK as well on a full sized table (aka iPad).

    2. Re:I hope he's right ... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      this notion of every book is a treasured artifact amuses me

    3. Re:I hope he's right ... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      On an e-reader or a tablet I buy a license that lets me have a copy on a device. Unless I back up my copy, the seller can take it away from me without even asking.

      Well, no.

      At least for me, it's "no". My eReader doesn't have wifi (old model, plugs into comp to get new books), so the seller has no power whatsoever to "take it away from me without even asking".

      And this ignores the backup copies I make when I get a new eBook....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:I hope he's right ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you plan to reread many of those 10,000 or are they some kind of trophy? I keep a lot of my novels, but those I don't plan to reread get resold or donated so that someone else can enjoy them and I have room for new books.

    5. Re:I hope he's right ... by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      The scary thing is, there's a movement afoot to bring the software licensing model into the durable goods market. In other words - take away your right to resell your bicycle!!!!

    6. Re:I hope he's right ... by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      Techies tend to buy the kinds of books that don't attach to the heart. I can't imagine developing feelings of sentimentality for my "Secrets of Writing Good Python Code" book.

  14. Information density by Stephen+Williams · · Score: 1

    I live in a small flat with insufficient space to store lots of books. My Kindle solves that problem.

    Reading ebooks is a completely different experience to reading paper books. I miss the tactile nature of paper books, the physical bookmarkability, and the ease of flicking through them. But the practical problem of storage space that ebooks solve is, for me, a more important consideration.

    -Stephen

    1. Re:Information density by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many people used to have insufficient room to store large numbers of books -- in case you haven't noticed, new houses are a lot bigger, on average, than they were years ago. The solution was a library card. Unless one read extraordinarily fast and had a need to house thousands of books at a time, borrowing them from one's local library was the solution. Sadly, many libraries -- especially school libraries -- are discarding their paper books. So much for the serendipitous, accidental discovery of books one may never have heard of, let alone thought to read.

    2. Re:Information density by Osgeld · · Score: 0

      then libraries like my local one started closing at 2pm and not open on the weekends, effectivley making them into a money pit no one cause use

    3. Re:Information density by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Local libraries are usually free for residents.

    4. Re:Information density by rdebath · · Score: 1

      I would disagree with your downsides.

      Tactile nature I'd say this is an upside for the reader. I can put the book down without being forced to find a bookmark. My ebook reader is a thinner than a paperback so it actually fits in pockets and so forth. Bookmarks The reader does bookmarks it seems to have an unlimited number and they're easier to label. You can even have bookmarks outside the book eg: 'hyperlinks between books'. Flicking through You can hit the 'next page' pretty quickly and jump to 24% through the book or 30 pages back very easily. Of course you don't have the odd rippling sound ... _

      IMO, the major downside of an ebook reader is that it has ONE page size. So any document that forces a page size or a page width has a problem. This obviously includes 'PDF' type documents but will also include HTML documents that use features later than about HTML3 and even text documents that assume a screen is 80 columns (or worse "800 pixels of Arial 10 point" ) wide.

      Obviously this can be worked around if the reader's page size is "large" (eg possibly A4 sized) and this is what happened with HTML4+ on a computer screen, but that kinda defeats the idea of an ebook reader.

      This leads to the second downside; unless you're very careful, your ebooks will die when the reader does either because they become unreadable because of format change or (worse yet) DRM kills them.

    5. Re:Information density by Stephen+Williams · · Score: 1

      The tactile nature thing is entirely subjective, I agree. For flicking through and bookmarking, I do find physical books more user-friendly if I need to cross-reference several pages within a book; I can stick a bookmark (or finger) on each page and rapidly flick from one to another. That's more of a chore with an ereader. But it's personal preference, I know.

      Another advantage of ebooks besides the information density that I forgot to mention in my first comment is searching. For keeping track of important or favourite passages, searching can remove the need for bookmarking if one can remember a significant word or two. And it's more useful than a physical index.

      -Stephen

    6. Re:Information density by rdebath · · Score: 1

      Sticking fingers in as bookmarks ... okay, that sounds more like having the book "open" and "on the screen" more than once. That's not something that works with the current flock of ereaders, but it does work with ereader software on a large screen PC.

      I suppose it comes down to 'rapidly', that flash and redraw of the "e-ink" style screens is slow, the processors may be fast enough, but the software they're running is written for machines with ten times the clock rate or ten times the memory, so the software is slow.

      Sigh, I think my next ereader better run Linux or Android. At least then I may have a chance for it to get fixed.

      PS: Searching is nice; bookmarking searches is even nicer.

    7. Re:Information density by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Local libraries are often supported by property tax, in the US at least.

      Which makes it really annoying that my town library isn't open any hours when someone working a normal job can get to it.

    8. Re:Information density by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      That's why I got my Kindle. I have enough room for a reasonable amount of books. But after many decades, I have an unreasonable amount of books. For years I had to quit buying because there just wasn't any room left. Now, I can buy ebooks and not worry about space.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  15. Nostalgia by phriot · · Score: 1

    The reason why e-books haven't surged to become the primary book format is likely that many readers today have grown up with physical books. This fact results in feelings of nostalgia when we pick up a printed book. I, for one, would never consider reading old favorites on my Sony Reader, nor would I try to read new works that I anticipate becoming favorites on that device, because feeling paper between my fingers and smelling pages of paper has meaning to me. Within a generation or so, kids may not build the same relationship with physical books, and at that time the majority of books may be consumed in e-book format.

    1. Re:Nostalgia by Fallingcow · · Score: 2

      Formatting in physical books tends to be far better as page size is fixed, many are much cheaper (used, remaindered, etc.), you can resell them to recover part of the purchase price, and whole categories of books are far better in printed form than digital —footnote-heavy books, anything where large pages are useful, and anything where having two full pages visible at once is helpful, to name a few.

      E-book readers have a long way to go before they'll woo everyone in the newer generations away from paper books, I think. I wish they'd get there, but I don't see them going past their current status as devices for reading Tom Clancy novels while sunbathing, since that's where the bulk of the market is.

      They're a suitable (superior, even) replacement the mass-market fiction paperback, but not much else.

    2. Re: Nostalgia by Rational · · Score: 1

      Strange. I've been an avid reader since I was a child in the '60s, and I feel zero nostalgia for paper books. Hell, I don't even like e-ink and have no problem reading for hours from an LCD tablet. I guess nostalgia affects different people differently.

      --
      "Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
    3. Re:Nostalgia by rdebath · · Score: 1

      I think you're looking at this from the wrong side.
      It's not the size of a book that's fixed, it's the size of the ereader that's fixed.

      If you have a thousand random books there will be a large percentage that are 'paperback sized', a few will be 'oversized paperbacks' , those ones that are always a pain on the shelves. But the rest are random sizes of anything from 'C' size to huge. For books the shelves are a problem, but there's not much downside to having a few different shelves for the wrong-sized books.

      For an ereader you only have one screen size. As you've noticed it's usually about paperback sized because that's convenient for books that are just words; no pictures, no tables of numbers, just 5-12 words per line like paperbacks or newspapers. But as soon as a book starts adding pictures they're forcing a minimum page size, if that's larger than screen then you have a problem.

      The answer is obvious, larger screens for the larger pictures ... but that makes the 'ereader' too big for a pocket, too expensive, not really an ereader any more.

      Oddly enough the writers of the original series of Star Trek noted this problem in that there have always been at least two forms of the "PADD" or "hall pass", the handheld style and the clipboard style.

      Looks like someone needs to make a "big screen" version of their ereader; identical (and so sharing the development budget) as possible to the "little screen" but sized A4ish. Or perhaps an A4 screen that you can attach the ereader to the back of.

    4. Re: Nostalgia by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I have been a lifelong reader, starting in high school, and have probably averages 3 novels a week since then. The only physical books I have nostalgia for are those that haven't been re-released in ebook format.

      In fact, I was an early adopter of the e-ink reader since I travel a lot, I got tired of carrying 5-6 SciFi novels on my international trips to read. Carrying a hundred or so books is now trivial, and welcomed on 14 hour flights as well as sleepless nights in Asia.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    5. Re:Nostalgia by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      and whole categories of books are far better in printed form than digital —footnote-heavy books, anything where large pages are useful, and anything where having two full pages visible at once is helpful, to name a few.

      I find that if the footnotes are bidirectionally linked I prefer ebooks-- you tap the reference indicator and it goes to the footnote and you tap the ref indicator there and it goes back to the reference point. Unless the same ref is being called from wildly disparate places, it's easy to generate that sort of behavior in an epub with grep. With a little thought, even the pathological cases can be dealt with reasonably elegantly.

    6. Re:Nostalgia by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      Kindle did that. It was called the Kindle DX. No-one bought it.

      (Kobo currently makes both 5" and 6" versions of their reader, fwiw, Sony used to but I'm not sure if they still do).

      What we *really* need is stretchable screens!

    7. Re:Nostalgia by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      "Formatting in physical books tends to be far better..." Yes, I can attest to that statement! It's entirely a nightmare to do the formatting, when producing ebooks. I've written one particular ebook that I would put in the nightmare category, as it was overflowing with diagrams, and almost impossible to do in kindle. The epub variant didn't do too badly, but still was not optimal...

  16. Why not literary fiction? by CRCulver · · Score: 1

    that e-books are well suited to some types of books (like genre fiction) but not well suited to other types (like nonfiction and literary fiction)

    Why not literary fiction? I've been travelling the world for the last several years now and haven't read as much classic literature as I would have liked to, because there's only so many books one can put into a backpack. But my significant other got a Kindle as a birthday gift, and after discovering a prominent pirated book site with epub/mobi/lit downloads, we've now got more literary fiction than we've ever dreamed of. We can even read hardcore 20th century modernism like William Gaddis on the Kindle and for the most part, the experience is immersive.

    Sure, the presentation is not 100% ideal. I'm a longtime TeX user and I miss the fine points of typography on a Kindle. But things like hyphenation will probably come along pretty soon.

    E-paper readers are not suitable for many things. I'm a researcher in linguistics and I have to read my scientific references from paper or my netbook screen (PDF-Kindle conversion is a joke as I'm sure many people here know). I've also found reading poetry to be unsatisfactory on the Kindle, even when the publication is available in a mobi/epub/lit format. But for literary fiction it's quite nice.

    1. Re:Why not literary fiction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd have thought that ebooks were more suited to nonfiction, not less.

      They're definitely not suited for literary fiction though. And I don't mean classic literature. Classic Literature is genre fiction that's good enough to be still popular. Literary Fiction was fiction that was never popular, and the authors would consider themselves to have failed if it was, it's the hipster Genre of fiction, so it definitely can't be read on something as vulgar and common as a Kindle. (Though you might get away with an iPad, but only if you make sure you mention that it's just not the same as the real thing frequently).

    2. Re:Why not literary fiction? by loufoque · · Score: 1

      You seem to be implying that not everyone downloads ebooks illegally.

    3. Re:Why not literary fiction? by Kijori · · Score: 2

      I suspect that the GP means the particular subset of (largely modernist/post-modernist) fiction that uses formatting, foot-notes and deliberately fragmented writing (so that flicking backwards and forwards is often necessary). Ebooks are indeed not much good for those.

    4. Re:Why not literary fiction? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Retard. Downloading is not a crime. Kill yourself.

    5. Re:Why not literary fiction? by dwye · · Score: 1

      As long as Project Gutenberg remains limited to public domain works, yes, not everyone downloads books illegally.

      Of course, if anyone sneaks Sons of the Swordmaker online, that may change :-)

  17. pricing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you will find that its mostly due to their price often times being greater than the printed edition... Its actually quite scary they think its a good idea.

  18. No price advantage for ebook ... by perpenso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps its some sort of act of defiance but if an ebook is not offered for a lower price than the paper version I tend go with paper.

    Currently my digital books tend to be technical references that I want to carry around with me in case I need to look up something at work or old classics that are available at no charge.

    Stuff I read for fun still tends to be on paper. Perhaps that will change if pricing changes, or maybe I'll just move on to another excuse ... I want to read in the bathtub might work until the Kindle Paperwhite becomes water resistant.

    1. Re:No price advantage for ebook ... by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      Depends where you live. Here in Oz, the price of an average paperback is about $AU20, you'll only pay that for an ebook from amazon if it's a new release(which in hardcover would be well over $AU30 here). Can I find cheaper books if I get them shipped or find them used, sure, but the price is better than local and I will have the new book in about a minute, no matter where I am which isn't half bad.

    2. Re:No price advantage for ebook ... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      This is a big reason. When the ebook price is the same, or more than the mass market paperback, there isn't much of an incentive to pay the higher price. I don't even bother buying either book now. I've been reading mostly free classics, or indie authors. Perhaps has the dust clears from the price fixing law suit, and publishers get their heads out of their asses, I might start purchasing their product again.

    3. Re:No price advantage for ebook ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take that defiance further - if the price isn't at least a 25% discount for the ebook versus the dead tree with who knows how many road miles on it, I don't buy it period, and try to let the author know why.

  19. I dont read ficton by Osgeld · · Score: 3, Informative

    My wife does and quote "loves her nook" which was a simple touch, turned tablet

    I got her simple touch, rooted it, and use it constantly for office documents, technical PDF's like mechanical drawings and other things such as email, news and weather

    as someone who does not read for escapet, I love being able to drop a doc on a tablet and walk it around, she loves it cause its an entire bookstore AND local library, one click away that also lets her take a moment to check facebook, or play a round of scrabble, while listening to her music while between classes

    sure the devices have taken a drop, most people are happy with ones they bought... most people now days are not stupid and buy the product they like instead of this weeks fad / toy, and as time marches on the difference between printed and ebook preference will shift

  20. research by swell · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I hope I never have to do research in a paper book again.
    No random access, useless index, no xref, no links, no instant glossary...

    The books I studied in school weighed far more than a tablet, cost nearly the same, and offered far less. A tablet could contain 1000 such books and provide pulp fiction too if I wanted that. Not to mention that the tablet provides the internet, Wikipedia, other media and access to all my friends and associates.

    The only real books I keep are those that have not been digitized or are very rare. OK, some have value and I'm not going to burn them. It's the same philosophy that helps me to decide which LP records, audio tapes, and video tapes to keep. Once they are properly digitized, the old media is out of here.

    I'm a writer. Unlike those of the past who refused to learn to type or use a computer, my feeling is that the technology is irrelevant- it's the story, stupid. If you read it from an illuminated parchment or a pixellated screen or the wall of China, what difference does it make?

    I do keep a paper book in the bathroom, just in case the other paper runs out.
    Take that you paper snobs!

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:research by balsy2001 · · Score: 1

      I agree that doing research in paper is much harder. Full text searchable volumes are great for finding exactly what you want quickly. However, when I read for pleasure, I prefer paper. The paper is so much easier on my eyes. Also, I spend the day reading stuff on a computer so when I get home reading on paper is a nice way to change up.

      --
      GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    2. Re:research by umghhh · · Score: 1
      It is the money stupid (why digital versions cost almost the same as paper ones?).

      It is the comfy factor stupid - I use what I find more comortable - it is paper mostly and for technical specs and Guttenberg project books I use tablet. Yet I do not use it for social media or anything that requires input - any type of such device sucks big time at inputting. Go to hell if you cannot see that.

      It is the DRM stupid - book bought for almost the same price I can give away or borrow to my friends and family - it is technically easy to do and I am not becoming a criminal in a process.

      So yes I use tablet and my laptop to read stuff. I have purchased one e-book and I decided this to be the last one when I could not use it after moving to another PC. Fuck you and your new shiny tools that are mostly useless and build new barriers which took our society years to overcome. New tools - splendid idea. Make them useful and comfortable to use and if you give me only a license for my money then make the amount less than it is for the same book. Other than that go fuck yourself in your knee.

      This said I understand that my view is simplistic and I will have to follow the crowd of mostly morons some day because paper copies will disappear. Till that day either your give me what I want or I am not your customer. You may think that my rage is unjustified but I am sick and tired of people telling me what is best for me w/o even asking ME what I think is.

  21. Tangible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I still buy printed books all the time. I like that each book looks unique. I like the artwork. I like flicking through books on a shelf while I choose one. I like the feel of the paper while I read and turn the pages. I like bookmarks. I like old books with coffee stains on them, strange smells and dog-ears. I like the variation of printed text from one book to another. I like illustrations on one page and text on the other. I like the weight of a book in my hand while I hold it.

    I like vinyl records too, for much the same reason. I can play music easily enough on my computer, or from a CD, but when I play a record I take the sleeve up in my hand and enjoy the artwork and perhaps a fully fledged gatefold. I like taking the record in my hand and wiping the dust off. I like putting it on my turntable and the physical actions required to get it playing, firing up the amp, dropping the needle, adjusting the gain. I like that my attention is required to take the needle off at the end of the record, it keeps me engaged. I'm fully involved in the listening experience.

    Computers take all the fun out of everything!

    1. Re:Tangible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like that all this kindle sits in my house, infesting every square inches like cockroaches

    2. Re:Tangible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is one thing that I find depends entirely on ones lifestyle. I definitely have always loved books, but I have always been in a position where I tend to be moving to a new place every year or three and have since I was very young. My folks would always be moving, and I guess I picked up the same sense of being loose footed.

      by 2000ish it definitely became a godsend that the majority of my entertainment was in the form of an HD enclosure that fits in hand, rather than box after box of paper (which if you have moved before you will know is one of the biggest pains in the ass), or even box after box of cd's/dvd's for other forms of media. Add in something like Calibre to manage them, either on a laptop or a tablet or an ereader, and I cant imagine doing otherwise.

      I still have a very small collection of favourites as actual books but it has slimmed down to 2 rows on a shelf. Of course, I could easily see that exploding in size if it ever seemed that I was rooted somewhere, but as long as the concept of moving again is a reasonable probability this is definitely the method I'll be sticking with.

  22. Re:I don't even know anyone with a tablet or e-dev by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    I see that people buy them and they continue to work next year so they dont have a reason to buy another, which was not an uncommon thing pre 2000

  23. Re:I don't even know anyone with a tablet or e-dev by haystor · · Score: 1

    I disagree. It is more than a fad in the sense that an e-ink reader actually improves reading in a number of ways. It is lighter than a single book. Can hold thousands of books. There is no curve to the page and can be easier to read than paper. It will sit flat on its own.

    When "lying on the couch at home" it is superior to a regular book in every way. There are pros and cons for buying it since there are limited options to buy (but instant delivery) and there is no resell value of an ebook.

    Not a fad, just a luxury.

    --
    t
  24. TFA speaks the truth... DUH! by meetpi · · Score: 1

    The thing I find amazing is how people (and by people, I mean media/tech pundits) consistently buy into the hype cycle (and by buy into, I mean, write stories that feed it) and then are totally amazed/smug when their most extreme predictions don't eventuate. Stay tuned for the next part of the hype cycle when the self-same pundits who told us that e-books would soon replace ALL printed media begin proclaiming that ebooks are a stillborn technology that nobody really wanted anyway.

    Technological innovations are so often presented as either/or propositions: either technology B will completely replace technology A, or technology A will see off the challenge of technology B and live on (and in most cases tech B is going to replace tech A so you'd be better be ready for it, buddy, or else BAD STUFF)

    In reality, most times technology A and technology B fall into a relationship with each other that satisfies most people, forming a new hybrid which offers people the best of both worlds. The only time a new technology completely overshadows an existing technology is:

    a) when the new technology offers exactly the same thing as the old tech, but also offers up some significant benefit over the old;
    b) when the new technology is backed by a power with the ability to distort the market; and,
    c) the combination of a and b.

    So e-books will co-exist with printed books because there are strengths and weaknesses in each format that the other does not completely account for, and there is not a significant/powerful enough vested interest trying to make one displace the other.

    But wait! I coud be wrong. After all, soon MOOCs [or insert other darling tech] will completely replace universities [or insert other established institution/tech/practice].

  25. What a silly article. by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Point by point.

    1) This example is absurd. A cromulent contrast would be "pure text" vs. "mixed text and images". Novels work fine with flowing layouts that adjust to the size and pixel density of the display. Doesn't matter if they're fiction, non-fiction, or historical fiction. However, if you have material with a lot of pictures and diagrams (textbook, magazine, etc.) then printed books have a distinct advantage. Most e-readers are not good at handling images and re-flowing the content can separate images from their associated text. However, that is starting to change. The iPad and a few Android tablets are sporting 2048x1536 displays which have enough pixels to adequately reproduce something pretty close to the quality of a printed page. And now there's the Nexus 10 at 2560x1600 that does an even better job.

    Also, pretty significant advances have been made in the design of electronic "printed" media. I used to work for a large magazine when they were first starting to produce content for phones and tablets, the result was pretty crude. I took a look at what they're producing today on Google Magazine using my Nexus 10 and it's amazing. Razor sharp text, sliding columns, Pullup/pullout sidebars, print quality images, etc. So even the "mixed text and images" presentations are improving significantly on portable devices. It's just a matter of time before color e-ink is available in densities of 300ppi or higher, bringing a similar experience outdoors.

    2) While I may be an early adopter, I'm not much of an early consumer on the content side. I didn't use my first e-reader much until I had a way to remove DRM from the content. Amazon's Kindle hardware and content sales were booming long before I started making content purchases. That was regular folks who were dazzled by the tech and didn't care about the high prices and content controls. Ebooks outsold paper books at Amazon over 1.5 years ago.

    The author says 59% have no interest in ebooks. So that means as many as 41% do have an interest in a new form of literature consumption that's only been around for a few years. That's one hell of an adoption rate. Amazon's done for print distribution what Apple did for music distribution.

    3) Oh, my gosh! People who are being paid to market a new thing might be exaggerating. That's unpossible!

    4) LP to cassette to CD to MP3. VHS to Laserdisc to DVD to Blu-Ray. Same thing. So people re-purchase their favorite titles in a big chunk when they get the device then slow down to their regular rate of buying 5-10 books per year. That seems like the expected pattern for existing content being re-released on new media.

    5) This statement makes no sense at all. The fact that I can read my content on my phone and tablet has increased my adoption of ebooks. When I had to carry a dedicated reader, ebooks were far less convenient. There was little advantage over a regular book because it was still a single-purpose object that had to be carried around. Now I can read anywhere on my phone because I always have my phone with me. And it syncs with my tablet so I can pick up where I left off on either device. So if I know I'm going to have some downtime, I can bring the tablet. If I have unexpected downtime, I've got my phone. And, since I've stripped the DRM from all of my purchased content, it doesn't matter which device I used to buy the titles. I can see how there would be adoption problems for people who get stymied by DRM. That is the kind of thing that will turn people off.

    6) I actually agree that ebook pricing is bullshit. I can understand premium prices for new releases but, once a title gets to "paperback" phase, the price should be significantly cheaper than paperbacks because so much of the production and distribution cost has been eliminated. As I said, I worked for a large magazine. I know what it costs to print and ship all those dead trees. Not to mention the coordination required to make sure everything happens at just the right moment.

    1. Re:What a silly article. by umghhh · · Score: 1

      4) LP to cassette to CD to MP3. VHS to Laserdisc to DVD to Blu-Ray. Same thing. So people re-purchase their favorite titles in a big chunk when they get the device then slow down to their regular rate of buying 5-10 books per year. That seems like the expected pattern for existing content being re-released on new media.

      I had few vinyl items (50?) when I started buying CDs. I did busy few of the items I had on vinyl again on CD so I re-created refined copy of my previous library. I stopped buying CDs as soon as I noticed that I could not replay them on some devices and making a backup was impossible or difficult to do. I have few hundred CDs now. I was buying 10..15 per month, now I did not buy any for years. I did not buy any DRMed shit either (except one book just to try) and I do not intend to do. I wonder how many people actually did what you describe here i.e. rebuying their refined libraries when the usage protocol changed. I also wonder how much do they re-buy. Are those patterns widely spread? Unless this is cleared your comment no 4 is irrelevant or misleading.

    2. Re:What a silly article. by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      You just said that you did exactly what I described in Point 4 so I'm not sure how you think my point is irrelevant or misleading or why my comment needs to be "cleared" by anyone.

      I did busy[sic] few of the items I had on vinyl again on CD so I re-created refined copy of my previous library.

      And I said

      So people re-purchase their favorite titles...

      How is what I said not exactly what you did? A new format came along and you re-purchased your favorite LPs in the new format.

  26. Price driven... by Raxxon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You want eBook adoption to work? QUIT BEING PROFITEERING BASTARDS.

    They already have the book in an electronic format before printing begins. It's what they send to the damn printer that actually puts ink on paper. Why then is the "cost" of an eBook more than the paperback counterpart? I could see justification for a higher price when the book is Hardback only (usually the first 9 to 18 months the book is available) but once the paperback hits shelves, why is the ebook still so much more expensive?

    I've actually seen some eBooks at a higher price point than the hardback.... dafuq?

    1. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They charge what they think people are willing to pay. I guess people are paying those prices. I personally buy mostly used booked. The price on new books isn't affordable to me. They could capture me as a sale by lowering the price, but that might not be the most profitable. I also wonder if the profit sharing model is worse for ebooks to the publisher since the publisher isn't making money charging for the press use.

    2. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need a Netflix for e-books. Flat rate monthly fee for unlimited reading. Massive catalog of books.

      In fact, just have Netflix buy Pandora and expand to e-books. They can use my movie, music, and book preferences to refine their content suggestions.

    3. Re:Price driven... by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Yep. That's my problem with 'em. I love my kindle, but when I can get a dead tree book for half the price of the ebook with free shipping.... how does that make sense? The death of printed books would be a hell of a lot less exaggerated if they didn't overprice ebooks.

    4. Re:Price driven... by balsy2001 · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why they don't start doing what I have seen on DVDs now and again. Where they give you the digital copy free for buying the disk. They should give me the e-book when I buy the paper one.

      --
      GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    5. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in answer to your question:
      http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2011/03/why-some-e-books-cost-more-than.html

    6. Re:Price driven... by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      It's called The Library. Seriously. My library system lend ebooks and audio books.

    7. Re:Price driven... by ripdajacker · · Score: 1

      Same thing happened with digital music, and is still happening with games and such (Steam games generally cost more than their physical counterpart). It's just business as usual, since we do seem to be paying for it.

      Ebooks offer portability and ease of distribution. While I do prefer paper books like most people, I really don't like having to buy a new bookshelf once a year/every other year. Technical books I almost only read on my computer, since I only use them while doing something on my computer. Fiction is much more suited for ebook readers, since it rarely requires jumps in content.

      For the most part I just buy the paper book and pirate the digital copy. More often than not I lend/give that book to someone so it doesn't clutter my already burdened bookshelves.

    8. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already have the book in an electronic format before printing begins. It's what they send to the damn printer that actually puts ink on paper.

      No, it's not the same. Printers don't take in epub or mobi or similar formats. The publisher has to do a format conversion and then they have to (or at least should) proof-read the converted book.

    9. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cost for manufacturer may or may not be more, but the cost to you (price you pay) is more because, obviously, e-book are better then their paper counterparts. (search, storage, convenience....)-

    10. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Different AC than GP, but frankly a Netflix (or similar) implementation would still be useful. Unlike most public libraries, such a service would be able to have a combined inventory across the country. Take a book that might be read by 100 people nationwide in a year - it is not worth buying for the local public eBook library, but might be worth having a few 'copies' of in the Netflix system. A better solution might be to have the equivalent of Inter-Library Loan for eBooks, but from what I have seen, nothing along those lines currently exists.

    11. Re:Price driven... by dwye · · Score: 1

      Actually, the printing process is only about 10% of the cost to publishers, and only books that have already sold moderately well get converted to paperback, so the high price for newly-published e-books sorta makes sense. OTOH, charging hardback prices for books that have been already made the transition to paperback is just rent-seeking. OTTH, the suckers pay, so why NOT charge that much? It is entirely possible that the industry does not want wholesale adoption, yet, because they haven't the servers for it (and no one wants the books stored on all your local machines :-), yet.

    12. Re:Price driven... by Raxxon · · Score: 1

      10% to print. How much to warehouse until distribution? How much to move from Printer to Warehouse?

      A chunk of this does lie with the Publisher, and a chunk lies with the Vendor (BN and Amazon, generally). The costs associated with Dead Tree versions is still higher than the costs associated with the Electronic version. You've "saved" the costs of actually printing it (and whatever 'waste' there is for unsold printed material), shipping it to warehouse and storage for the Publisher. You've "saved" the cost of shipping from the Publisher to Warehouse as well as Distribution and Storage costs of getting it to your stores or the Warehousing costs associated for your Internet Sales for the Vendor. I don't see how they can claim, ESPECIALLY after the paperback comes out, that it continues to cost almost what the Hardback does to handle the eBook version.

      Yes, some of this does lie with the consumer as well, after all we are buying this shit. However if there was no one buying it at all then we'd never make progress simply because "there's no market/no profit in it", which is a shitty way to work on evolving a medium....

      Give me the option of a "Bundle Deal"... There are some series that I'm reading that I'm buying the physical copy as well as the ebook. Gimme the option for a $5 or $7 premium when I buy the hardcover to get the ebook as well. Sets up the 'impulse buy' in the consumers mind at that point and makes it easier to get the sale. Especially for Internet Sales this becomes a trivial up-sell.... "Buy this book, for $5 get the ebook and start reading now while the physical copy is shipped out to you!"

    13. Re:Price driven... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, what we send to the printer is a PDF. If there are illustrations, they are embedded at the resolution needed for offset printing, which is generally much higher than tablets will display (there are also licensing issues that may limit display resolution of art). Epub and mobi files are created in a separate workflow, generally from the application files (i.e., Indesign or the like). The cost of conversion is not very large, but nontrivial. I'm trying to push towards a more xml-based workflow, but making both print files and capturing all the editorial process corrections in the xml is a PITA. sadly, it is not my decision. Where I work, we sell our ebooks at the same price as the print. Again, not my call. I'd love to be able to do what O'Reilly does (sell print + ebook together as a discounted package), but it's not my call. We'll get there eventually, I think. Publishing is a very conservative field and generally fears change and approaches it very cautiously.

      For myself, I still prefer print books on the whole, though I read computer manuals online. After a career in production, the ebook presentations still look too ugly and unrefined to me. The original Kindle is just a horrorshow. And as someone involved in the testing and design of the technical specs for our epubs, the limitations of the format are painful. I suppose these things will improve over time, as we get better support for good fonts, layout, math, and so on.

    14. Re:Price driven... by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      They're pre-factoring the piracy. Software publishers have done this for years ...

    15. Re:Price driven... by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      A solution might be to "stream" books over the web, rather than distribute them as files. I guess you'd still have the authorization hassles. The files are a problem. Publishers figure the files are way too easy to redistribute, and so they just add some cushion to the price to cover lost sales. But, it seems like I see more 99 cent offerings than $9.99 ones. I'm not sure where you're shopping. DRM is declining, because it severely restricts device compatibility.

  27. Portability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Books are only portable up to 10-20 items. After that their cumulative weight is too much to carry. I could consult any of my 100 scanned private library on any of my devices without so much as carrying an extra gram.

  28. No contest - it's books for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why? For the various things they can be used for - none of which include actually reading them - well, ok, reading them too!

    They can be used for such wonderful things as:

    - Umbrellas
    - Door/window stops
    - Seats
    - Tables
    - Hiding things
    - Hammers
    - Paper towels
    - Gift wrapping paper

    Plus, there's nothing better than walking into a room full of musty old books and paging through some ancient tome. Or curled up next to a fire under the stars watching the shadows bounce playfully off the pages that you're reading. Some things digital will never replace. :-)

  29. The tech needs to advance just a bit more by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have had three e-readers, the first way decent but it had cheap plastic keys like on a really cheap small calculator, it did have a high rez display (iRiver device) and had a wide format support. But it was slow. So it was well suited to reading a page BUT flipping a page took a long time, PDF's were especially a nightmare, it was best for manga with high text content since it displayed those very well and then the relative slow page turning with lots to read isn't that distracting.

    I have bought a very big e-reader for manga reading, it is beautiful but the device is so big (9 inches) it is not all that suitable for on the go reading. For books it is to large.

    recently I bought a Odyssee HD from Bookeen. It has a build in light and is small. It is a very nice device for reading books BUT its manga support is dismal (no archive support) and its directory structure is arcana. Calibre helps but it needs to convert zip archives to epud files. It DOES have nice PDF support with a reflow option.

    ALL the devices have margins in margins, it is traditional to print a page and leave a wide border BUT on a computer screen IT IS NOT because I PAYED for those bloody pixels so fucking USE THEM, I want a SMALL margin. Only the last device has tiny bit of support for it but you STILL have well over a centimeter of wasted space on either side. The device already has a wide physical border, I don't need one on the screen.

    What does this rant mean?

    E-Readers just ain't mature yet, they are in the state of MP3 players before the iPod when the likes of Sony found it perfectly acceptable to only support their own format which nobody else used while iRiver had support for formats you could even find on google, but used a directory format that only a unix wizard could grasp.

    That a player like bookeen still doesn't support archives shows an attitude that "we do what we want and standards, fuck em, we are the standard" (the device also can't fit epub images to the screen (no zoom)). I knew this in advance, it is my book reader, not suitable for manga.

    Page turns are getting really fast, almost capable of playing animation. In device lighting has made a HUGE difference (it also removes a bit of glare in bright light) but they still as said, MP3's before the iPod. Or mobile phones before standarized OS'es.

    iOS en later Android STANDARIZED software behavior on a wide array of devices, especially with android you didn't need to check that it would support your media files, it would, because it was android and even Sony now supports a long list of formats.

    What e-readers need is a base OS on which perhaps companies can build their own actual reader software UI but in which the basics are simply present and standard supported. Perhaps EVEN allow third party apps to be installed so the community can come up with a manga reader that is actually suited to the subtleties of manga and not comics.

    Right now, (small) e-readers of the latest lighted generation offer:

    • Light weight (if you take them out of their cover)
    • Cheap content (piracy, lets be honest here, I have a LOT of bought paper books, only 1 payed for ebook, I do have more then one file on my e-readers)
    • Entire library on the go (see above)
    • In confined areas, like public transport, they are easier to hold then a larger book, mine easily slips into my pocket, a thick paperback, not so easily.

    But they have downsides

    • Arcana usage, that a confusing program as Calibre is praised for making it so much easier to manage your device says enough. If your car became easier to drive by operating it standing it on your head, you would want a word with its designer.
    • Uncertain format support
    • Loosing the pixel race with tablets.
    • UI operating is slow.
    • SLOOOOOW searching, flipping of multiple pages, indexing.
    • Inconsistent operation, ctrl-c for copy on the PC is such a nice standard but handling bookmarks etc on a e-reader changes b
    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:The tech needs to advance just a bit more by Fallingcow · · Score: 2

      Arcana usage, that a confusing program as Calibre is praised for making it so much easier to manage your device says enough. If your car became easier to drive by operating it standing it on your head, you would want a word with its designer.

      I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds Calibre simultaneously necessary and completely awful.

      I class it with things like XBMC and every single digital music library tool I've every used: software that does some stuff I really want to do, but that I dread using because it's so goddamn obtuse.

    2. Re:The tech needs to advance just a bit more by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      so you use cheap readers to look at cartoons, and complain about them, cause you know, you read cartoons...

    3. Re:The tech needs to advance just a bit more by loufoque · · Score: 1

      e-readers use e-ink, which is for plain text only.
      It's not suited for manga.

      For manga, you need a tablet.

    4. Re:The tech needs to advance just a bit more by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      Have you ever seen the dependencies list for that thing? Holy C___! I don't think I've ever seen a longer one, anywhere, anytime.

  30. I love my e-reader - and buy paper books, because by mha · · Score: 0

    - DRM (enough said - are you kidding me????)

    - When reading an ebook I don't get this satisfaction of "visible progress" that I have from having more and more pages on the left than on the right. This is not important to me at all when reading novels, simply because I'm usually done within a day or two, but the last couple of years I've read tons and tons of sometimes dry (but interesting) non-fiction, where somehow deep inside of me this seems to make a big difference.

    - Regardless of further tech. progress, unless the human genome changes significantly and you can plug a USB stick into your head directly, it will ALWAYS be true that when technology fails your books will still be with you, and you can still read. Books live for hundreds of years, technology maybe a dozen. Combine this argument with DRM...

    - I am human. I DO get a feeling of satisfaction when other people who visit me can see what I've been reading. Wherever I go I always have a casual look at the titles of the books (and then feel soooo erudite in comparison :) ). Doing the same on a computer, e.g. looking at someones book list on facebook, is tedious and feels like work, it does not feel "natural".

    So now I get novels for the e-reader (but DRM free), and all the books I care about I buy in print.

  31. A very grave collapse that can't be stopped. by beachdog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I went to Stanford University bookstore to see if I could purchase a few graduate level textbooks in human motor development, neurology and (a separate interest) particle physics (easy stuff like alpha particles).

    Wikipedia beat Stanford University Bookstore on each of these topics. I walked in with $200 plus a credit card and spent only $.75 on parking.

    Eventually, my daughter who is in college got me an old edition of the motor development book I needed.

    The paper book is shrinking due to the economics of printing: The weight and cost of paper, the taxes on unsold book inventory, the system change where fine printing is typeset in USA and printed in China. In contrast, electronic books are 2% for the webserver, 49% to the publisher and 49% to the author.The markup or profit on an electronic book is basically set by the marketing skill and chutzpah of the publisher. You can weigh a book and look up the wholesale price of paper and see that relatively little is left for the publisher and author.

    1. Re:A very grave collapse that can't be stopped. by umghhh · · Score: 1

      the anecdote you start with is probably explained partially with economics but it is rather off topic. I do buy stuff in a book store if I need advice and have enough time. Majority of my purchases are done by amazon. For the stuff I need wikipeidia is usually a start point. If I need deeper knowledge I usually need a book etc.because technology of all these toys is still not satisfying and because of what we generally associated with DRM I buy paper copies tho. The way I see it modern logistics and technology allow for small issues comparing with previous ages and it is still viable unless some asshole decides that DRM is a king and stops producing paper stuff because control is easier on zeros and ones. me thinks

    2. Re:A very grave collapse that can't be stopped. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I went to Stanford University bookstore to see if I could purchase a few graduate level textbooks in human motor development, neurology and (a separate interest) particle physics (easy stuff like alpha particles).

      Wikipedia beat Stanford University Bookstore on each of these topics.

      Sure, Wikipedia beats a bookstore on price... but on pretty much every other factor, not so much. Wikipedia tends to be a summary, essentially a high level overview - which is useful unless you actually want to learn more about the topic. Wikipedia also tends to very atomic as everything is split off at the lowest possible level (consistent with it being a summary), thus disrupting the narrative flow. Etc... etc...
       
      As a tool for finding specific facts, which is what an encyclopedia is designed for, it excels. (Subject to the usual caveats about Wikipedia.) As a learning tool, it has serious drawbacks - ones not always obvious to autodidacts unfamiliar with the topic the seek to learn about. (And nowadays, increasingly unaware of the difference between knowing individual facts and know which facts bear which weight - and how they interconnect.)
       
      Of the topics I specialize in - there's not one single one I'd refer any but the rankest beginner to Wikipedia to study. There's topics that I have chapters on, or even whole books that Wikipedia summarizes in a scant paragraph or sometimes in a single line! (When they mention them at all.)

    3. Re:A very grave collapse that can't be stopped. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah buddy. My graduate finance text publisher tried to charge me $240 bucks for a fucking electronic version of the text. Name dropping your fucking stanford and acting like particle physics is a craaaazy smart guy interest to have doesn't lead to you having a fucking clue with what you're yapping about.

    4. Re:A very grave collapse that can't be stopped. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In contrast, electronic books are 2% for the webserver, 49% to the publisher and 49% to the author.The markup or profit on an electronic book is basically set by the marketing skill and chutzpah of the publisher.

      The webserver owner actually wants 30% if you're lucky, and more for international distribution. Unless you're only selling on your own website, in which case you won't sell half a dozen copies.
      Distribution + retail is the largest cost and is about the same for ebooks and printed books. Next are the costs of editing, proofing, marketing, layout, royalties, etc. Ink and paper is only a tiny fraction of the cost.

    5. Re:A very grave collapse that can't be stopped. by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

      The paper is not a very big deal, but unsold inventory is a huge deal. The way publishing works is that the bookstores put their stuff physically on the shelves only when there's an agreement to buy back everything that doesn't sell at a whopping fifty percent discount. That's most of the waste in the system. Book paper is pretty cheap (I can run my 300 page novel in 5,000 volume batches at about a buck, U.S. )

  32. Ok, so... by Memroid · · Score: 1

    Can I have my bookstores back now?

    1. Re:Ok, so... by loufoque · · Score: 1

      Sure, it's called Amazon.

    2. Re:Ok, so... by Memroid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but if it's Friday, and I want a book, even with Amazon Prime I have to wait until Tuesday or so.

  33. Wishful thinking by eminencja · · Score: 1

    I skimmed the article and it looks like a wishful thinking of the publishers who see the writing on the wall.

    The Association of American Publishers recently reported that annual growth in adult e-book sales dropped to 34 percent during the first half of 2012

    So e-books are still growing and growing fast (34%!). The fact that an e-book costs as much as a paper one, has a DRM, and a delivery fee(!) is a disgrace but just imagine what will happen once those get fixed.

  34. Re:I don't even know anyone with a tablet or e-dev by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And with the Kindle Paperwhite or the Nook GlowLight you can read in bed and not have to worry about a light source.

  35. The printed word will always exist, certainly.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    But I'm quite positive that there's going to come a time when using paper as opposed to digital is going to get prohibitively expensive, and when that happens, the printed form will finally become the uncommon exception.

  36. Archive by GerryHattrick · · Score: 1

    Quarter of a ton of books in my study, most over 50 years old, reference not fiction, long 'out of print'. e-media won't help. But sometimes I find vital things all mixed up from Google Books or PG scans, and can then buy originals from specialist dealers or Abe Books. Good news for a certain kind of bookseller.

    1. Re:Archive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you describe is a temporary problem for the most part - the next generations of old reference books won't have this issue if we are proactive in publishing - save all new publications in some eBook form so that 'out of print' no longer exists. The great works of the past will filter in either via scanning or republishing once they reach the public domain.

  37. Re:I love my e-reader - and buy paper books, becau by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    whenever I go to someones place, the last thing I do is finger fuck everything on the shelves, and I sure as shit dont care about what dribble fictional garbage they picked up at wallmart

    please, do us all a favor and get over yourself, no one gives a shit

  38. Long time convert... by bayankaran · · Score: 1

    I am a convert to E Books from 2005 onwards - starting with a primitive Sony E Reader (by the way Sony still makes good E Readers - the software was coded by Monkeys though.)

    I use a Nook and an iPAD. The former for books - classics, non fiction, fiction and all that, the latter for magazines - mostly The New Yorker, comics etc.

    This is an incredible age...I have on my fingertips, anywhere in the world any book or any magazine as long as I have an internet connection. No printed dead tree book idea / shelves / stores can come close. The only paper book I bought in the recent past was a paperback edition of Roberto Bolano's 2666 (arguably the first classic in 21st century) for a lovely friend who is dead against any E Reader.

    Yes, people will buy printed books...but they will go the way of DVDs. Someone somewhere will come with a solution for a "digital shelf" in the living room...where all the books and magazines are displayed and anyone can borrow / read through their device (or borrow a device itself.) For this to happen, a lot of interoperability and standardization needs to happen and a few of the "walled gardens" should go the way of Berlin Wall.

    --
    Tat Tvam Asi
    1. Re:Long time convert... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh wow.

      You are living the dream, man.

      Sorry: you are living "a" dream.

      What, at all, in recent years, has suggested to you that there will be any motion *whatsoever* away form "walled gardens"?

      A few Slashdot commenters ripping their ebooks with Caliber doesn't count.

  39. Never tried an e-book, never will... by Terminus32 · · Score: 0

    Paper only. Why waste electricity when you can waste paper? :-)

    --
    http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
    1. Re:Never tried an e-book, never will... by loufoque · · Score: 2

      Why use renewable energy when you can cut down trees, destroy the native habitats of many species and reduce photosynthesis?

    2. Re:Never tried an e-book, never will... by viperidaenz · · Score: 0

      then plant more trees to cut down in the future and make money off the land.

      It's a good alternative to building a carpark, housing subdivision or industrial/commercial park. Better for the environment too. If trees have no commercial value, expect there to be much fewer trees.

  40. Going digital has too many downsides... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like the idea of eBooks, but the reality just isn't there yet. The easiest way to look at it is by comparing with the transition to MP3s/iTunes:

    1) Hardware

    On the move, an iPod is smaller than a Discman, has better battery life, doesn't need a wallet to carry around extra content, and can be used anywhere the discman was. At home I can pipe my music wirelessly to various speakers, or just dock the iPod. Finding the track I want is much quicker and I can create playlists which would otherwise mean changing multiple physical discs Only downside I can think of is potentially higher hardware costs (and maybe audio quality, and there are lossless formats to help with that)

    eBook reader / tablet may have a size/weight advantage over a single book (depending on book/device), but will have a massive one versus multiple books. Battery life is obviously worse, but probably not actually a problem on an e-ink device. Device might allow me to read in the dark. Paper book I'm happy to read in the bath, or take to the beach where I'm going to leave it while I swim, not so much with an expensive and lest robust device. At home, I don't see much advantage to the device (self-illumination, and not running out of bookshelves). On holiday, I can definitely see the upsides of not have a large chunk of my luggage being books, but there are downsides too.

    2) Content

    I can rip all my CDs into iTunes. It takes some time, but it's a pretty painles process that I can do in the background. New content I can download (DRM free these days) for instant gratification, or I can just buy and rip a CD if that's cheaper (or the only thing available). Browsing for music online is better than in a physical shop as I can easily listen to samples of anything. Less legal avenues for music aquisition are also easier and cheaper for those that choose to go down that route. More options for sharing with friends & family - worst case I can just burn a CD. CD's I can re-sell, digital music not so much (at least for now).

    I can't rip my existing books into a digital format. I certainly don't want to re-buy them all (and probably there are plenty I couldn't get at all). I could format shift via less legal downloading (which may or may not be more effort than CR ripping), but that's still unlikely to give me a complete collection. For new content, eBooks are not necessarily cheaper, certainly when the second-hand market comes into play - but if I get the cheaper paper book, I can't get it onto my e-reader. Even if I do get a digital copy, it will probbly be DRM'd and thus of questionalble long-term value (and can't be easily loaned to friend/family, certainly not if they don't have a compatible reader). The browsing experience in a physical bookstore is most definitely better (although Amazon admittedly to a good job of reccommending me things I might not have otherwise found). On the flip side, if you don't care about getting books legally, an e-reader would be a clear content win!

    Concusion:

    For me, the switch to iTunes/iPod was all upsides, once I'd put in the effort to rip all my CDs. Not so for eBooks - whilst I can see some real advantages for trips longer than a daily commute, even there there are some downsides. The real killer is content - an e-reader is pretty much useless to me if the vast majority of my books can't be read on it! For a younger generation without a massive dead-tree book collection, the story may well be very different.

    What I want:

    1) A service that allows me to, for a nominal fee, trade in my physical books for DRM-free digital copies.

    2) Disposably cheap e-reader hardware. What I'd really like to see is dumb "books" of 200+ pages of e-paper (selling for maybe $10-$20), with a smart docking station which contains all the content and re-writes the e-paper books. The book itself is battery free, and if it gets damaged/lost/stolen than I can buy a cheap replacement and easily sync up with my content (even on holiday, where the docking station can stay safely in the car/hotel room).

    1. Re:Going digital has too many downsides... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice wants... but why be squeamish about pirating copies of the books you have in dead tree? I certainly don't find anything wrong with that so long as the paper copy is still in the house.

  41. Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have gifted my mom a kindle, the paperwhite to be exact. It's not bad. But at the same time it's a total piece of shit.

    Here's the problem. It's a closed ecosystem. When you buy a dead tree book, who you bought it from falls out from the equation. It doesn't matter anymore. You can read it, you can loan it with abandon, you can photocopy parts you need to reference easily, you can tear out the pages and wipe your ass with it.

    People who ever used a computer in one form or another the last 25 years know all about closed ecosystem. It made itself first apparent in computer programs, where you take an Apple program and run it in DOS and vice-versa. Same with video games. But people tolerated that, there are certain technical reasons to do it that way, and besides, to people computers were new and they didn't know any better.

    But once accustomed to an open ecosystem, people tend to stay away from closed ones. iPods sold music for a time DRMed, but Apple was in the business of selling hardware and was tired of the headaches that came with it -- iTunes has been selling normal MP3s for a while now. If anyone could have made a closed ecosystem with music, it was Apple. But people were used to the relatively open CD format - plays in any brand CD player, no hassles.

    Now comes the Kindle. Books DRMed to the Wazoo. Amazon is the only store place to buy. It charges huge commissions, bigger than physical goods iirc - what the hell is that? No secondhand market unless the publisher greenlights it. Fuck, my mom can't even access German Amazon kindle store - she would need a German billing address. Something to do with publishers having area rights. She's an immigrant. The biggest potential plus out the window.

    The kindle is an excercise in unmitigated greed and a step backwards in many ways. Greed of Amazon's monopolistic ambitions and publisher trying to stay relevant. No, we're talking a lightbulb constrained to the brightness of a candle (to make you buy more), expensive as all get out, having to lay electric lines and sockets for it's use, and the only upside is that it's less likely to cause a fire. All it's other potential upsides vanquished to placate candlemakers or to line the pockets of the single bulb manufacturer. And we're here sitting around wondering why people still use candles.

    1. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by EdZ · · Score: 5, Informative

      This only applies to the Amazon Kindle store, not to the Kindle hardware itself. Plug the thing in, and it's a USB Mass Storage device you can drag-and-drop DRM-free ebooks (in .mobi and a few other formats) perfectly fine.

    2. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by WaywardGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I found this whole thing so offensive, I started working on Ebooks.coop, to provide a path out of the walled garden. Google, Apple, and Amazon typically charge 30% for nothing other than having sold you the tablet or reader. Apple is the worst, forcing publishers to insure that no ebook store was allowed to offer lower prices than Apple. All three DRM all their ebooks. The basic idea is that users and authors should split most of that 30%, and not have to pay the new middle men who don't even to pretend to add value. With the dawn of ebooks, prices were supposed to drop tremendously. There's no more printing costs and no more brick and mortar store we have to support. The job of the publisher becomes simply editing and publicity, reducing costs dramatically. Instead, Amazon, Apple and Google teamed up with the big publishers to figure out a way to keep all of the savings for themselves.

      Authors still want access to readers without these guys in the way, and readers still want non-DRMed low cost ebooks. The demand is there, and if we can find a way to bridge the gap between them, sales of ebooks would skyrocket. The reason only 16% of us have e-readers or tablets is simple: ebooks don't save us enough money, if any. If we could save 50% on every ebook we buy relative to a printed version, everyone would read ebooks.

      If candle manufactures got together and demanded that all the savings available through electric lighting had to go to candle makers, electric lighting would still be a novelty item.

      --
      Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
    3. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple are far worse than Amazon in this regard. If you buy a DRM'd book from the iBooks store, you can't read it on anything but an iOS device; you can't even read it on a Mac. The genitals at Apple won't make an iBooks app for MacOS and they won't licence the DRM scheme for anybody else to do so. Scum.

    4. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by nyctopterus · · Score: 5, Informative

      Having just published an ebook, I can tell you that DRM is a choice made by the publisher. Amazon will happily sell ebooks without DRM, and are doing so with mine right now, I didn't check "provide copy protection".

    5. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Pembers · · Score: 2

      Book paper is too rough to wipe your arse with, and if the publisher used cheap ink, you end up dirtier than you were to start...

      Blame the publishers for DRM. They're the ones who refused to let Amazon sell electronic versions of their books without it. The Kindle is perfectly happy to display un-DRMed ebooks in any of the formats it supports. KDP, Amazon's self-publishing programme, allows the author to choose whether to add DRM to the book. I've left it off all of mine, for reasons that will be familiar to any Slashdot reader.

      It's the same with regional restrictions. Traditionally, authors usually license their books to publishers by territory and/or language. An author in Germany might license his book to a German publisher, but that publisher might only be allowed to sell it in Germany, or only in countries where German is the main language. They might not have the contacts or the understanding of the market to do a proper job of selling the book in other countries or languages, so they're happy to let the author or his agent try to license the book elsewhere. Amazon.de carries the German version of the ebook, which the publisher isn't allowed to sell outside Germany.

      The reason that terms from the publisher's contract with the author get carried over to the retailer is because of something called agency pricing. When selling ebooks, the retailer acts as an agent of the publisher, not an independent entity. The publisher sets the retail price of the book, and the retailer takes a fixed percentage of that as commission. This is something that Apple strongarmed the publishers into doing, because they didn't want to have to compete on price when they started selling ebooks. Google "ebook price fixing lawsuit" for more information. (Agency pricing itself isn't illegal, but the lawsuit alleges that Apple and five of the big six publishers colluded to use it to keep ebook prices artificially high. Some of the publishers have already settled, and have agreed to stop using agency pricing.)

    6. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason only 16% of us have e-readers or tablets is simple:

      Yes, it is. Apparently, about 16% of people are heavy readers.

    7. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by WaywardGeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True, Amazon is not forcing DRM down our throats. It's actually the big publishers that provide Amazon most of it's popular titles that do that. Had you landed a publishing deal with a major publisher, you're ebook would be DRM-ed.

      If you and all the other self-published authors were to begin dominating sales, we'd see a major drop in ebook prices over time, leading to a snowball of more ebook self-publishers and more people with e-readers. Unfortunately, most people still buy paper books, meaning the popular authors are more concerned about being in Barnes and Noble than Amazon. If your ebook does well, you'll likely land a nice publishing contract that gets your book printed and distributed widely. At that point, you'll likely have to sign over ebook rights, and your ebook will become DRM-ed. Thus, this whole rape of authors and readers continues non-stop, as a money printing machine for the middle men who do little to add value.

      I really hope Apple, Amazon, and Google get taken to the cleaners by the government anti-trust people. Free competition is being trampled. I should be able to start my own app store for Apple devices which offers many of the same popular apps and ebooks, just 25% cheaper. Just because Dell and HP sell most laptops in the US is no reason they should get 30% of every on-line sale. We'd all freak out if they tried that. Why do we accept this from our tablet vendors?

      --
      Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
    8. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Alomex · · Score: 0

      Now comes the Kindle. Books DRMed to the Wazoo.

      You should have a look at the Kobo reader. E-books are sold with a lot less restrictions in their bookstore as compared to the kindle.

    9. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      [snip] the new middle men who don't even to pretend to add value. With the dawn of ebooks, prices were supposed to drop tremendously. There's no more printing costs and no more brick and mortar store we have to support.

      What Amazon, Apple and others have is to add is the marketplace. Running an eshop costs money, in particular if you are a smallish player and want to sell in multiple countries, where you have to comply with national law and tax. Even though the shops may no longer be brick and mortar, they still have bills to pay, and still need to make money, so there is a markup there alone. Add to that the simple fact that Amazon is a very large player on both the ebook and paper book market, in practice close to a monopoly and a monopsony, many publishers may also be quite reluctant to challenge them. On a side note, the price of printing is rather low, compared to the price of making the book itself.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    10. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by WaywardGeek · · Score: 1

      I agree the ebook store has costs it has to cover, and provides value in terms of marketing titles and so on. If I were allowed to have my own ebook store app on OS X and Android devices, I would complain a lot less, because there would be natural competition and users could price-shop. As it is, there is no competition, and frankly charging 30% is outrageous, and only possible because of anti-competitive practices.

      The bottom line is that sluggish ebook sales are due to anti-competitive practices where publishers, Amazon, Apple, and Google are conspiring to take readers and authors for everything they're worth. Ebooks should dominate, simply because of the savings.

      --
      Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
    11. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and as more people begin to realize this over the next couple of years. ( even now, i have friend that bought LCD readers the other day and wondered 'why cant i buy books and stuff from the other place' 'that is stupid' ) they will slowly demand more universal formats and open ecosystems. It will take time, but it will happen.

      I also don't think the OP really appreciates what an e-reader can do for them, even in the current state.

    12. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure 30% of the sales price is that extreme when comparing to a brick and mortar shop and a distributor network (I'm unsure of actual price examples, does anyone know?). In particular because some of the shops are readily available on the supported devices. This, naturally, gives Apple and Google significant advantages on the smartphone and tablet app markets, even if Android/Google allows users to connect to other app shops.

      I do, however, agree that there are a number of anti-competitive practices that hamper adoption of ebooks. One issue is the whole DRM mess that does little to protect the publishers from users sharing books online (e.g. piracy), but does make it much more difficult for newcomers to open an eshop to sell ebooks. Some authors hope that the current courtroom drama between Amazon and a number of publishers (over price fixing with Apple) will force the publishers into dropping DRM on ebooks.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    13. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you can even DIY when it comes to publishing for ebooks. Sigil and Calibre are right there on the internet for the downloading. Of course the software is still quirky and has many rough spots at this stage, but it works with a bit of effort and persistence. Therefore nothing says you can't do the proofreading and editing without any middleman at all. (Sometimes its better this way. Particularly if you want chapter indexing, and proper page and word breaks for easier readability on an ebook. Some "professional" publishers aren't that much better than an amateur OCR conversion unless you happen to be a high-profile author.) They're also likely the best option if you want to go direct to epub format for sale or distribution without involving some other vendor service.

    14. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I found this whole thing so offensive, I started working on Ebooks.coop, to provide a path out of the walled garden. Google, Apple, and Amazon typically charge 30% for nothing other than having sold you the tablet or reader. Apple is the worst, forcing publishers to insure that no ebook store was allowed to offer lower prices than Apple. All three DRM all their ebooks.

      The last is either ignorance or a blatant lie. 1. All free eBooks on the Apple Store are DRM free. 2. I know one major German publisher whose books are available DRM free at about 20 different stores including Apple's Store - they only use DRM on Amazon's store because Apple doesn't allow anything else.

      (If someone wants to check this, be careful: Apple actually does a rather bizarre thing. EPub books can use DRM, and in that case there is a list of which files inside the EPub zip file are encrypted. Apple ships some EPub books that have the whole DRM infrastructure inside, but the list of encrypted files is empty. Which means they can be freely copied and any EPub reader can read them - unless it is frightened off by the poinless DRM infrastructure inside).

    15. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by cerberusti · · Score: 2

      I bought a kindle for my girlfriend quite a while ago, and have used their store many times (one of the early models, and she is an avid reader.)

      Your assertions are factually incorrect with regards to amazon (no idea about other vendors.) This is not a case of it changing over time either, the below has been true since the introduction of the kindle, and remains true to this day.

      1) Not all e-books are DRM restricted.

      Amazon offers many books which are out of copyright for free (which has probably led to a significant savings over time for me, as she likes to read the classics, and I would otherwise end up buying these in paper form.) Small publishers and self published works are also in many cases DRM free. We have purchased several of these from amazon as well, so they obviously exist.

      2) Books from sources other than amazon can be loaded onto the kindle.

      We have purchased several self published books directly from the author and loaded them onto the kindle, so these also obviously exist. I will also point out that various libraries lend current e-books which work on the kindle (including our local library.) It is free to borrow these, although it is time limited as with any other book checked out from a library.

      The below includes some speculation, so it is not necessarily factual... but is most likely correct:

      I seriously doubt the companies you listed conspired with publishers to "keep all the savings for themselves." The far more likely scenario is that these companies entered into an agreement with publishers who owned the sole publication rights to works they wished to carry in their store, so that they could... you know... carry it in their store. I am sure that amazon wants to make money on these as well, but I can hardly fault them for that (I also do not work unless I can make money from that work.)

      One of the conditions was likely that they include DRM, and so they did. I am not obligated to purchase these if I do not wish to, and could in fact only purchase DRM free books for use with the kindle (from amazon or another store.) This would limit the selection of modern books, but it could be done (many could even be borrowed from the library... if we wanted to wait in line, as with any other popular physical book.)

      There are some complaints to make here, but they are best leveled against the appropriate party. In this case publishers who are watching their industry collapse, and do not wish to embrace the changes our modern age brings. I do not believe amazon deserves this criticism however, and in fact think they deserve much credit for essentially creating the market.

      I have no affiliation with amazon other than as a customer, and do not own their stock (I probably would, but their current valuation is hard to swallow.)

      --
      I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
    16. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      If I were allowed to have my own ebook store app on OS X and Android devices, I would complain a lot less, because there would be natural competition and users could price-shop. As it is, there is no competition, and frankly charging 30% is outrageous, and only possible because of anti-competitive practices.

      You *can* have your own ebook store on apple and Android. I do. It's not as mobile friendly as it could be right now because of the version of the basic store software that I'm using (and had to modify), and that I'm half the company and have other things to do besides build the webstore, in addition to a day job. But it works reasonably well on both flavor devices, and will be better in a few weeks when I update the store code behind it to one that has a better mobile display. I also sell through all the various other major distributors, including some obscure ones you're not likely to know, but that have their own niches.

      You can even choose to DRM or not, or watermark or not. Adobe will license you the DRM for your store, and the code I did in my store has hooks for adding watermarks (similar to what Oreilly and Pragmatic do), but I didn't bother with either. DRM isn't worth the hassle- it's more work to put in than to take out, and restricts how you can read things. Given that we're selling ebooks for about the price of the coffee you're going to drink while reading it, it's easier for most people to buy the book than to try to find a pirate copy.

    17. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure 30% of the sales price is that extreme when comparing to a brick and mortar shop and a distributor network (I'm unsure of actual price examples, does anyone know?).

      Standard price of a dead-tree book to a bookstore is 50% off the cover price if they get it through the publisher (which most prefer, to get that discount). Discounts through distributors usually are from 30% to 50%, depending on what discount the distributors get from the publisher. In most cases the publisher or distributor pays shipping, and accepts returns (usually not resellable).

      It's not hard to open an eshop to sell ebooks, and you can even add DRM if you want (licensed through Adobe, but it won't work on Kindle) or put in a DIY watermark system so each reader's copy is personalized (which is also easy to remove, if you really want to), similar to what Oreilly and Pragmatic do. For a small publisher DRM is often not worth the trouble.

    18. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by nyctopterus · · Score: 1

      Actually, the book is doing just fine, we're making decent money from it. I doubt I'd take an offer from a publisher, I don't see how the economics would work out. The system works!

    19. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by zugmeister · · Score: 1

      Second this! Use Calibre and you can bulk edit book metadata then automagically retrieve book covers and descriptions before sending it off to your reader. Reads tons of formats as well.
      Not affiliated with them, just use it personally.

    20. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Amazon is the only store place to buy. It charges huge commissions,

      Amazon isn't the only place, it is the easiest. But you can purchase from other ebook sellers. As far as the pricing, blame the publishers, not Amazon.

    21. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but they don't make it clear which books have DRM and which don't. Kobo on the other hand say clearly if a book does or doesn't have DRM.

    22. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by nyctopterus · · Score: 2

      I assembled the ePub version myself, and used Calibre to convert it to .mobi. Amazon didn't do anything at all to my file as far as I know. They are a dumb pipe for people's money.

    23. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      To add a little more to the reply...

      On tablets and phones (including the iOS devices) there is competition-- all the major sellers with their own proprietary DRM systems offer readers for all the major devices. Some of the sellers also do mark books below publisher list-- it's really up to them once you've delivered the books and assigned a standard list. I have readers for Kindle, Kobo, Nook, and Overdrive on my iOS devices, so I can read books from any of those, plus Adobe DRM stuff on my devices. Apple has actually been a little foolish in their implementation of their bookstore-- they have the nit-pickiest requirements on files that you supply them, demand a non-standard cover size and aspect ratio, and have software that's a pain to use to maximize the distribution of your book to all their markets. And they're the slowest to approve titles. Meanwhile, everybody has a free Kindle reader on their iOS devices so if apple is too much of a pain, a publisher can just distribute via Amazon (and B&N, and Kobo), so people will can still read on their iThing, but Apple doesn't get a cut.

    24. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by Scarletdown · · Score: 2

      This only applies to the Amazon Kindle store, not to the Kindle hardware itself. Plug the thing in, and it's a USB Mass Storage device you can drag-and-drop DRM-free ebooks (in .mobi and a few other formats) perfectly fine.

      Use can also use a nifty little plug in in Calibre to strip out that DRM so that you can load your Kindle Store purchases onto other eReaders, back them up, etc., so you don't have to worry about losing any purchases should you decide to switch to another platform or Amazon chooses to use that Kindle kill switch again.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    25. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      Publishing is changing rapidly. There's no DRM on my books on Amazon or anywhere else. Smashwords actually lets you download the file itself (free of DRM), and if a publisher ever made me an offer, I'd offer the print rights only as some recent big name publishers have agreed to. But I have a self-publishing print option as well. If I were doing well enough for a NY publisher to take notice, I would probably still stay self-published because the terms are much better.

    26. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Right, and as more people begin to realize this over the next couple of years. ( even now, i have friend that bought LCD readers the other day and wondered 'why cant i buy books and stuff from the other place' 'that is stupid' ) they will slowly demand more universal formats and open ecosystems. It will take time, but it will happen.

      I also don't think the OP really appreciates what an e-reader can do for them, even in the current state.

      I bought the Nook Tablet when it first came out. Was immediately disgusted by the device's consumer orientation, by the fact you could only (easily) buy books from B+N, and that their store had few of the apps I was used to on my phone.

      So I returned it. Soon after I got an HTC Evo View tablet. It's got access to the Google Play store where I downloaded both the Nook app and the Kindle app. Google Play already gave me access to lots of books as well. I've got access to books from lots of stores, and all the apps available on Google Play you don't see on either the Nook or Kindle.

      A tablet is not an eReader, and it does have limitations such as less battery life and difficulty of reading in bright environments. And if you're looking for one, make sure the one you buy has access to the Google Play store for best access to apps; while anyone can create and sell a ltablet using Android, not all of those cheaper tablets or consumer-oriented tablets are certified by Google (necessary for them to include Google Play) and without Google Play you may still find yourself in a walled garden.

      I realise there are lots of reasons this solution may not work for everyone, but it works for me.

    27. Re:Richard Stallman's Right to Read is Coming True by pweidema · · Score: 1

      Excellent comments - wish I had mod points!

  42. The right format isn't around yet by cynop · · Score: 1

    And by that I don't mean pdf, mobi or whatever else is around. I mean a format that combines the text with abilities that can't be found in classic paper books. Imagine reading a military history book with animated maps showing the movement of troops. Or a thermodynamics book where you can scroll, move and change the attributies of a graph so that you understand how they fit together. Imagine a book about electromagnetism where you can actually see the field lines and how they change when you move the coils or whatever. That would be the equivalent of a killer app in my book. Of course, those are indeed genre books, but I'm sure there are appropriate uses for general fiction books.

    The publishers don't really seem to try these things. They basically give you only a pdf of the printed book, no added value. The only things I have enjoyed reading in my tablet are comics, because the color image translates well and there is fewer text on the screen. And I believe that is true for a lot of people, and that's part of the reason the comic publishers have tried new things while the majority of the publishing industry just tries to cling on the old ways.

    1. Re:The right format isn't around yet by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      What you described may happen sooner than you think.

      Remember, devices like the iPad, the Nexus 7/10 tablet, Amazon Kindle Fire or Barnes & Noble Nook (color versions) are essentially computers with touchscreen interfaces. It won't take a big leap in publishing technology to include animated maps or other interacitive features into an e-book--in fact, it's possible to do this now with Apple's iBooks ecosystem.

    2. Re:The right format isn't around yet by cynop · · Score: 1

      It is possible right now. It's a concious decision of the publishers to release "bare" e-books with no added content, and i think this is the main reason that e-books have not yet taken off. The DRM plays a big role too of course.

    3. Re:The right format isn't around yet by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      There's also the issue of enough devices out there to justify the "enhanced content" books. At least with the iPad, the sheer number of them out there (I own an iPad 2 myself) means at least in the iBooks format, you have enough potential buyers out there to justify the cost of creating one in the first place.

  43. DF ate my brain by muridae · · Score: 1

    Quick, help this man, SELDOM is on fire!

  44. Re:I love my e-reader - and buy paper books, becau by loufoque · · Score: 1

    It depends on the operating system running on the device.
    The non-Touch Kindle for example has a very good visible progress indicator. For some reason, it's not as good on the Touch version.

  45. And, er, price has nothing to do with it? by rklrkl · · Score: 1

    I can understand tablets replacing e-book readers (and this double-sided one does both normal LCD and e-ink, though quite why a phone needs that rather than a tablet is anyone's guess), but when I looked whether to join the e-book revolution, I was appalled by the price of them! They are often the same and - shockingly - even more expensive than the equivalent hardback book!

      The classic example was the #1 bestseller - Steve Jobs: The Exclusive Biography. When that was selling like hot cakes, it actually more expensive to buy it as an e-book than the already-expensive hardback. That one example put me off e-books hugely.

    1. Re:And, er, price has nothing to do with it? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      A little e-ink display is a perfect addition to a phone. You don't need to turn on the power hungry backlighted LCD to check your messages, the time, battery capacity, etc.

      My phone would easily last a week if I didn't use the screen. I need to charge it pretty much every day though. The backlight is the single most power hungry component.

  46. Re:I love my e-reader - and buy paper books, becau by mha · · Score: 1

    Thank you for thinking I'm stupid :)

    I have a Kindle, I have a progress indicator. It just does not FEEL the same. Possibly because with a book all my senses (touch - e.g. when holding the book in both hands) "see" the progress.

  47. Buggy Whips. by Rational · · Score: 1
    "The e-book may turn out to be more a complement to the printed book, as audiobooks have long been, rather than an outright substitute."

    The automobile may turn out to be more a complement to the horse than an outright substitute. You know, because some people still ride horses. What is this, Slashdot: News for Luddites?

    --
    "Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
  48. Blister pack price point will change this by Coward+Anonymous · · Score: 1

    If/when e-book readers become blister pack items at the super market checkout isle ("with free book inside!") and a $10 price point they will get closer to replacing books and magazines in most cases - essentially once they are disposable.

    The problem with e-readers today is that they are property that needs a lot more attention and care than a book. Because of the price point you can't afford to lose or damage it, unlike a book. Once they are disposable and a simple login puts all your previous purchases at your fingertips, books will have a much harder time competing.

    The coffee table book will likely survive however.

    1. Re:Blister pack price point will change this by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      The coffee table book will likely survive however

      Especially if it's a coffee table book about coffee tables.

  49. Piano rolls by dns_server · · Score: 1

    Old technology does not die off quickly.
    Piano rolls died only 4 years ago http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/01/05/0224202/player-piano-roll-production-ceases

    New technologies do replace old technologies but not overnight.

  50. 10" and/or dual 8" screen ereaders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with non-fiction on an eReader is that there are diagrams that the text refers to. It's really hard to see so little on a page. I started going through a python ebook on my wife's nook, but found that there was just too little presented on a page to help me really digest the topic. I was constantly flipping back and forth between pages. When I pulled out a paper book, there was about 4x the amount of content facing me, which was far easier to look through.

    But Amazon/B&N have pigeonholed the ereader into the 6" screen size because nobody bought the $400 Kindle DX and instead preferred the $100 6" size (now $50) or a $500 iPad. Well, duh. Why a Chinese company hasn't figured out that there's money to be made on larger ereaders is beyond me. They could take an ARM A8 + 10" eink screen and sell a android 4.2 eink tablet for $100-150 that I would buy 2 of in a heartbeat. They could also try out a dual screen hinged approach, though the software to make that happen would be challenging since Amazon/B&N aren't going to modify their software to support a random Chinese ereader.

    Not to mention the DRM encumbrance... once you buy an eReader and books from that store, you are stuck with them. That's one reason I want the android eink tablet... at least then I could run the Kindle app, which is better than nothing.

    Ereading for nonfiction will take some sort of major disruption/vision that I don't see coming. Even the second level brands like Kobo or Sony don't try to push the envelope.

  51. Printed Books, Brick And Mortor Book Stores by assertation · · Score: 1

    One nice thing about the old fashioned ritual of buying printed books, with cash, from brick and mortar stores is privacy.

    Your interests, your thoughts, your reading choices are registered with big brother (Amazon, the credit cards, potentially the government ).

    Maybe you aren't planning the next big takeover. Maybe you just enjoy the simple please of reading without everyone else

    1. Re:Printed Books, Brick And Mortor Book Stores by lxs · · Score: 1

      Oh noes! The Gubmint knows that I'm reading Twilight!

      I really don't see how walking into a public space and buying a book under the gaze of CCTV is more private than getting it off of Amazon or from #bookz on IRC. Besides, if you are afraid that you'll get in trouble for buying a book that is freely available in stores for money then you need to grow a spine.

      Frankly, the only thing I miss about book stores is meeting cute bookish girls.

  52. DRM by stenvar · · Score: 1

    Paper books come with their own "DRM":

    Only one person can read them at a time.
    They are nearly impossible to copy.
    They impose a constant and significant cost in terms of space and maintenance.
    They will deteriorate and self-destruct over time.

    In fact, even disregarding the (probably illegal) digital ways of removing DRM, simply optically copying an E-book is simpler than copying a physical book. Furthermore, most books published after the middle of the last century just don't seem to be worth keeping around anyway. I have trashed plenty of paper books.

    1. Re:DRM by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      Paper books come with their own "DRM":

      Only one person can read them at a time.

      God, if only. I guess you hever had someone breathing over your neck and saying "hey, don't turn the page yet, I'm not finished".

  53. DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tepples · · Score: 4, Interesting

    it's a USB Mass Storage device you can drag-and-drop DRM-free ebooks (in .mobi and a few other formats) perfectly fine.

    But what professional-quality ebooks are lawfully distributed DRM-free? I can see pre-1923 works, Baen Books, works of Cory Doctorow and a few other authors who have embraced Creative Commons, and what else?

    1. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 3, Funny

      it's a USB Mass Storage device you can drag-and-drop DRM-free ebooks (in .mobi and a few other formats) perfectly fine.

      But what professional-quality ebooks are lawfully distributed DRM-free? I can see pre-1923 works, Baen Books, works of Cory Doctorow and a few other authors who have embraced Creative Commons, and what else?

      Lawful doesn't matter much to me. I care more about ethical. I enjoy ebooks and convenience but I like to support authors and local bookstores, so I read most of my books via Kindle after downloading them for free, but I only download them after I buy a physical copy of the book in a store.

      Posting AC for obvious reasons...

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    2. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 0

      Lawful doesn't matter much to me. I care more about ethical.

      Who doesn't? One can make ethics up on the spot.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    3. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Bigbutt · · Score: 3, Funny

      Posting AC for obvious reasons...

      No, no you're not. :)

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    4. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Posting AC for obvious reasons...

      by Colonel Korn (1258968) Alter Relationship on Sunday January 06, @09:03AM (#42495399)

      ANONYMOUS COWARD FAIL!

    5. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Ignore copyright. Also, Project Gutenberg has more books then you can read in a lifetime.

      --
      Good-bye
    6. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Now you are starting to get it. Each man is a kingdom unto himself.

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by vu2lid · · Score: 5, Informative

      But what professional-quality ebooks are lawfully distributed DRM-free?

      There quite a few publishers with "DRM free only" e-books. For example:

      http://www.manning.com/
      http://oreilly.com/
      http://www.linuxjournal.com/

      Encourage them if you do not like DRMed books.

    8. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until he invades yours.

    9. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 2

      Most public libraries (at least in North America) have ebooks that you can "borrow" (use for a fixed length of time, e.g. two weeks).

    10. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tepples · · Score: 1

      And how are these two-week loans enforced other than through digital restrictions management? EdZ claims that Kindle doesn't support any DRM format other than Amazon's own.

    11. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tsa · · Score: 1

      I bought the Kindle for my 19th century hobby. I love everything out of and about Victorian Britain. There is a LOT to be found on the web that you can easily download and read on the Kindle. The device is perfect for that. But newer books I rather buy on paper just because of the reasons you give.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    12. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      We're a small publisher with about 150 titles (fiction and non-fiction) that we distribute largely DRM free. We purchased/inherited the catalog of another early e-book publisher and sell those titles DRM free on our own site, but Amazon doesn't have an easy switch to change them to DRM free on their site, so they're available in mixed DRM-state. All our new titles are DRM free, except for library loan (for what I hope are obvious reasons). Unlike other ebook publishers, we sell to libraries at the same price as to individuals, and we actually sell to libraries (a few of the big ones still refuse to sell ebooks to libraries).

    13. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just pirate it. Copyright is a joke, didn't you get it?

    14. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Project gutenburg offers free *.mobi and *.epub formats for most of their works. That's all the classics right there, dude.
       
      XcepticZP

    15. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tepples · · Score: 1

      I can see pre-1923 works

      Project gutenburg offers free *.mobi and *.epub formats for most of their works.

      That's what I was referring to.

      That's all the classics right there, dude.

      By the criterion of eligibility to appear on Project Gutenberg, you appear to exclude The Lord of the Rings, The Old Man and the Sea, and The Great Gatsby from classics among anglophone literature. I wasn't under the impression that it was required for "classic" status that a work's copyright has expired, but it is required for Project Gutenberg.

    16. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      I love everything out of and about Victorian Britain.

      I'm a big fan of rickets myself, though some of my friends are keen on weaver's lung and sending children up chimneys.

      But one thing we all agree on - shooting darkies and stealing their country is teh awesomeness.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    17. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by zeugma-amp · · Score: 2

      But what professional-quality ebooks are lawfully distributed DRM-free? I can see pre-1923 works, Baen Books, works of Cory Doctorow and a few other authors who have embraced Creative Commons, and what else?

      Most Project Gurenberg etexts/ebooks are every bit as good as "commercial" ebooks. As a matter of fact they tend to have less typos and other artifacts of that nature. Sometimes the quality of "professional-quality ebooks" is often crap.

      --
      This is an ex-parrot!
    18. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tepples · · Score: 1

      I can see pre-1923 works

      Most Project Gurenberg etexts/ebooks are every bit as good as "commercial" ebooks.

      True, but Project Gutenberg e-books don't cover new developments in world affairs since the early 1920s. Due to copyright term extensions, Project Gutenberg has near zero coverage of works first published since 1923.

    19. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tsa · · Score: 1

      You're right, I phrased it a bit awkwardly. I'm very interested in that period because during that era the basis of our current society was formed. Not only is it the start of the technological age but a lot of social laws appeared in that era.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    20. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One can also just buy them as DRM'ed ebooks and remove the DRM; I'm not aware of an ebook format that has not been cracked, and I have no problem with paying for DRM'ed content, as long as I can remove the DRM once I've bought it.

    21. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Ira+Sponsible · · Score: 1

      You could buy my book. No one has complained it's not "professional-quality." I specifically requested no DRM from Amazon. It can be done. It's easy. Amazon doesn't require it, it's up to the publisher, and since the publisher is me, and I think DRM is stupid, I made it DRM-free. Just because I'm not a big name yet doesn't mean I can't produce a worthwhile piece of entertainment that stands equal to the best of what's available. If I were a big name, writing for a big publisher, I would demand DRM-free, since it doesn't matter how big you are, DRM is always stupid. Of course it's also available in paper form, for those who prefer it that way.

      Links:
      Amazon Kindle version of Cerberon
      Printed version from Amazon
      And if you prefer it from someone other than Amazon:
      Lulu totally device agnostic DRM-free epub from Lulu. Wil Wheaton told me to use them.
      B&N Nook version (also DRM-free, as far as I'm aware).
      Apple iTunes iBook version, despite the fact that iDespise iTunes.
      Createspace printed version, which is also Amazon, but gives me a better commission if people buy it here.
      Straight from me, half the book as a free preview. DRM-free epub, of course.

      Apologies for the advertisement, but you asked.

      --
      1.Netcraft confirms:In Soviet Russia all your base welcomes a beowolf cluster of CowboyNeal overlords. 2.? 3.Profit!!1!
    22. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I used feedbooks with my eInk device. They have all of the Project Gutenberg collection, as well as a load of CC works, and a nice typesetting engine for generating PDFs for your device (or ePub or other formats). For technical books, Safari Books Online carries all of the major publishers and lets you access chapters via a subscription, or download entire books in PDF or ePUB. If you just want to buy them, InformIT carries all of Pearson's books (Prentice Hall, Addison-Wesley, and so on), and they usually charge less for DRM-free ePUB + PDF than Amazon charges for a DRM'd Kindle book. Oh, and on my last book Amazon managed to fuck up the formatting of the Kindle version (the version on InformIT was fine)...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    23. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      My library loans for kindle or epub on most books. Some are format restricted but they are usually adobe.

    24. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Try gutenberg australia.

    25. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Sort of a tangent, but have you read Pirsig's 'Lila'? It's the sequel to 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' and includes discussion of societal trends, starting with the Victorian era and working up at least through the hippie movement, perhaps beyond (been a few years, memory is fuzzy).

    26. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tepples · · Score: 1

      Not every e-reader owner in the United States is willing to move to Australia or Canada where it's legal to download from Gutenberg Australia. Technically, even reproducing their ebooks in a web browser's cache while on U.S. soil is an infringement.

    27. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by mcgrew · · Score: 0

      Lawful doesn't matter much to me. I care more about ethical.

      Who doesn't? One can make ethics up on the spot.

      You guys both misunderstand the difference between ethics and morality. Ethics come from an exterior authority (such as a physician's code of ethics, or the law) while morality comes from within one's self. It is not immoral to smoke marijuana, but it is unethical anywhere but Washington and Colorado since it's illegal. OTOH it's immoral to have sex with another person's spouse, but it is neither illegal nor unethical (unless you're the aformentioned physician and the women is your patient, in which case it's not illegal but both immoral and unethical).

    28. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I am all about productive solutions.

    29. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by tepples · · Score: 1

      So what's your proposed productive solution for lawful distribution of post-1922 ebooks to people who currently reside in the United States?

    30. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      It's a complicated long term plan that involves periodic bursts of activity such as debating and voting. In the short term I back civil disobedience and I firmly believe that it will eventually result in decriminalization.

      Look at the drug war. Sure, there are casualties, but most of them got greedy, so don't get greedy.

    31. Re:DRM-free largely stops at 1922 by arth1 · · Score: 1

      The Peanutpress/Palm Reader/eReader PPrs format has not been cracked.

      Which is a bummer, because Barnes & Noble (who had bought eReader) closed down their site in December, so I no longer can download my around 200 books.
      This means I can not read a great many of them, because I do not have the details needed to unlock them (the name and credit card number used at the time of purchase - do you remember all your credit card numbers for the last 13 years?). The ability to re-download the books locked to the last used credit card number went away with the site.

      As a result of this hostile action, I have decided to stop buying books from B&N.
      There are better choices, like Baen.

  54. Nook by tepples · · Score: 1

    the popular authors are more concerned about being in Barnes and Noble than Amazon

    Then why isn't Nook kicking Kindle's behind?

    I should be able to start my own app store for Apple devices which offers many of the same popular apps and ebooks, just 25% cheaper. Just because Dell and HP sell most laptops in the US is no reason they should get 30% of every on-line sale.

    Since 1981, Dell and Hewlett-Packard have chosen to preload an operating system that allows sideloading. Even in the case of Windows 8, where Microsoft gets a cut of all Windows Store applications, this is still true of desktop applications. Likewise, both Google Play devices and Kindle Fire allow sideloading. So start your own app store for Android devices.

    1. Re:Nook by cerberusti · · Score: 1

      I imagine that by Barnes and Noble he means the physical store where you can buy a paper book, not the electronic reader.

      --
      I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
  55. only 16%? by drolli · · Score: 1

    in comparison, what was the average number of books being sold in that time?

    I think one of the big problems of ebooks was that the adoption of the technical&scientific puslisher wasquite low up to one year ago.

    I am buying ebooks happily from several sources (google books, kindle, epup from various sellers). And i think that in the last 3 years (since i bought a Sony Reader) i spend more money on books than the 10 years before. After one trans-continental relocation i decided that i will buy only ebooks, if possible.

    I prefer non-DRMed ones over DRMed ones and transparantly DRMed ones over walled gardens (so sorry, Apple, you are out).

  56. Amazon giveth and Amazon taketh away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one has brought up the "1984" incident of a few years back. Amazon deleted copies of 1984 from customers' Kindles. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/07/amazon-sold-pirated-books-raided-some-kindles

    Really? 1984? The irony was over the top.

    It may be a rare occurrence, but it doesn't concern anybody that you aren't in full control of what you have purchased?

  57. if i'm spending money on a book... by buddyglass · · Score: 1

    Then I want an actual physical book. Not some ones and zeros that may or may not be portable to other platforms and that requires a "device" to access them. Even in a portable format I'd prefer the physical book. About the only instance where I'd prefer an e-reader is if I were going on a long trip and wanted to take several books with me but the physical bulk of transporting them all would be too inconvenient.

  58. That has fuck all to do with it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The reason why e books aren't taking off are manifold and many even produced by the fuckwits trying to sell the bloody things.

    Major reason #1. Price. The Ebook costs practically the same as the paper book.
    Corollary. Utility. You can't sell on an ebook. They are "licensed". Therefore the book itself worth less.
    Corollary. Expense. You dont need a paper book reader to read paper books, but you need to buy an ebook reader to read ebooks. Therefore the ebook remains more expensive unless you buy hundreds, which makes not owning them even more of a financial risk.

    Major reason #2. Availability. Most books you can't get as ebooks at all
    Corollary. Expense. Therefore it is not possible to replace your books with ebooks since they aren't available as ebooks. That makes the amortised cost of the reader per book make the ebook more expensive.

    Major reason #3. DRM. Buy a book for your kindle and it can't be read elsewhere and you must keep the kindle account and device to read it. Books with other DRM mean you need several ebook readers (fragmenting the library and making it more expensive per ebook to buy the reader).

    Minor reasons include the poor utility of ebook readers for technical books or pdfs which is why some go for a tablet (which is frankly a crap ebook reader and a huge waste of resources on things that allow "games" "videos" and so on when you only want to read the bloody books on it).

    Paper books should be priced INCLUDING an ebook version.

    Ebooks should be returnable if they're going to remain 50%+ the price of a paper book. They get the use of your money so they get utility off that to offset the utility of you reading the book. Otherwise, they need to be less than a tenth the price of the paper book if they come on their own. Hell, make the ebook a subscription at $1.29 per book for the series when you buy the first one. It guarantees further sales of the series to the publisher and means that the reader may take a risk on what seems to be death-by-a-thousand-installments where you buy a book and are risking not finding the ending until 20 books later.

    1. Re:That has fuck all to do with it. by Sique · · Score: 1

      I wonder why eBooks outsell hardcover books, if they just don't take off. Must have to do with eBooks being too expensive and not versatile enough. People are masochists and buy expensive and clumsy eBooks instead of cheap and easy to handle hardcovers.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  59. When the price of paper books went up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The industry said it was entirely due to the price of printing and paper going up.

    Now they're admitting (?) that this was a lie.

    Or they're lying now.

    Or both times (since they did it at least once, there's nothing stopping them doing it twice, is there).

  60. "Me Too" by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

    A hardboiled detective story set in Chicago in the early 2070s. Sex, drugs and robots.
    No DRM. "Machines of Easy Virtue."

    1. Re:"Me Too" by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      No DRM. "Machines of Easy Virtue."

      I suppose there's a good reason you're publishing only on Amazon. And I suppose there's a reason you don't have any reviews yet. But I don't think I'm alone when I write that I don't buy unreviewed eBooks from unknown authors because some eBooks are poorly written, others poorly edited.

      I don't subscribe to Amazon prime so I can't borrow it from them; is your book available from public libraries?

  61. Read a bedtime story. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not DRM'd (unlike text to speech forbidden on ebook readers).

    Read over someone's shoulder.

    Just pass it on to them to read.

    There's no DRM.

    And not just because there's no digital information.

    Simply copying an ebook does nothing. It's random information. Encrypted without decryption, it's meaningless. Might as well "cp /dev/urandom mybook.pdf"

    1. Re:Read a bedtime story. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no DRM.

      You can do all of those things with e-books.

      Simply copying an ebook does nothing

      Which part of "optically" did you not understand? You know, as in photocopy?

  62. Convenience by Grashnak · · Score: 1

    Having just returned from a 3 week trip, I can tell you that the 300 ebooks I took with me were a hell of a lot lighter than even one good sized paper book.

    --
    Life needs more saving throws.
  63. Nothing beats a book. by garyoa1 · · Score: 1

    If you travel you can carry a gazillion books with you and the reader weighs less than one book. On the other hand if you're sitting at home and want to curl up with a good read... there ain't nuthin' that beats a book.

    --
    Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
  64. Affordable Color e-ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This will solve a huge part of the problem where the current crop of e-ink readers are dedicated mostly to fiction novels.

    Myself, i LOVE my ink, but for a tech book its totally useless. So i carry both a ink reader and a 9.7" LCD tablet, even tho it will cause eye strain and I cant stray far from a wall outlet. Once color ink is here and doesn't cost an arm and both legs, both will be retired in favor of the reader.

  65. It's only been 5 years by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    The first Kindle was released in late 2007. The iPad was released less than three years ago. It seems a bit premature to predict that printed books will keep their traditional place in people's lives. There is still a large segment of the population that has never even tried reading an ebook. Many of those people are older, and have no interest in the "new." But there are already younger, technology-addicted people who rarely, if ever, touch a paper book. They don't have the same fondness for the feel and smell of paper that older people do.

    Of course, books will be around forever. Scrolls still exist! So do phonograph records. The question is, what will be the normal way people consume text. I believe the e-reader will obliterate the paper book publishing industry the same way the Web is obliterating the newspaper industry.

    1. Re:It's only been 5 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sony had electronic book readers out in the mid '90s.

    2. Re:It's only been 5 years by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, e-books has actually made OLDER people interested in reading books again, for two reasons:

      1) You can adjust the text font display size, very important for older readers with vision problems.

      2) The weight of a modern e-ink e-book reader is way lighter than many hardback books out there. Lot easier to hold the current Kindle e-book reader reading the later "Harry Potter" novels than to hold up the original hardback version.

    3. Re:It's only been 5 years by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, e-books has actually made OLDER people interested in reading books again...

      My nearly 70 year old mom reads ebooks on her phone, and just got a kindle for xmas that she'll likely use quite a lot.

      I recently went to an "ebooks everywhere" event at the local library, which was a class on how to get ebooks onto whatever it is you choose to read them with. It was late on a weekday evening, and I think the only people under 50 were me and my partner, who were there as publishers seeing who shows up for those kind of things.

      so yes, there are plenty of older people happy to use e-readers, phones, and tablets to read (there were people with every combination of devices)

  66. I would have taken this guy more seriously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...if he had released this pronouncement in printed form.

  67. Re:Market failure to discount ebooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly.

    If the ebook market was had any resemblance of real competition ebooks would cost at most half paperbacks (currently they typically cost *more* than paperbacks although less than hardbacks).

    If prices came down this way I think we would see a rather different adoption rates.

  68. DRM is to blame by arbulus · · Score: 1

    The problem with ebooks is DRM. When your entire library can be wiped out on a whim by Amazon or Barnes & Noble, there's no guarantee that your books will still be there tomorrow. Not only that, but they're not portable, you can't use them as you see fit. You're beholden to draconian rules regarding something *you purchased* but can't actually use as though you own it.

    When DRM goes away and we can use our books as we see fit, and a court has ruled that no company can delete your books because they fucked up some publishing deal, or becuase they think your accout is "suspicious," then ebooks will be viable. Until then, physical books will be the only way to go.

  69. ebooks and "customer service" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    many people tire very quickly of customer service, and of the quality of the devices... just look in the forums. updates gone wrong, getting hung up on, getting incorrect instructions, being told that theyre being escalated to never have the issue fixed, it doesnt inspire confidence. and the company that used to own one brand doesnt even offer extended warranties, whats that about?

  70. I prefer, but don't read eBooks anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer eBooks, but I'm sick and tired of formatting problems. Words at the end of chapters missing, obvious problems with bulk replacement, links from TOC's that don't work, scrolling through tables or pictures because the screen is too small. It's back to paper for me until there's a reader that will read scanned pdfs in full size. I know they have been out there, but have had problems with cracked screens, etc.

  71. used to like it ... till my books disappeared by rgarbacz · · Score: 1

    I used to be a big fan of digital books, great convenience, until once the google book reader for iPad upgrade came and I was informed that my book is also on another device (I have a reader and an iPad), and the book disappeared. Sorry, but at this moment all the convenience was gone.

    I am still a fan, but only not DRMed e-books, fortunately there is enough to read, and mostly much better, well if a book is still being read after a few hundred of years it means it is worth it.

    Well it is pity, because I have time to read mainly when I travel, and there are books, which are worth reading, but could not have been written long time ago.

    1. Re:used to like it ... till my books disappeared by macbeth66 · · Score: 1

      Very odd, indeed. I have the Kindle on three of my PCs and my Android smartphone. All the books exist on all the machines. As a matter of fact, I had the same book opened to three different pages at the same time.

      Is this something that happens on Apple products only? Only certain books?

    2. Re:used to like it ... till my books disappeared by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Some books are limited to a certain number of devices. I once tried to DL a book to a new device and got an error message to that effect. It turned out I had an old Kindle that was still registered to me, and when I deregistered it at Amazon, I could DL the book to the new device.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  72. Consider the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since it comes from Nick Carr it is most probably (historically speaking) bunkum. He misses the fact that the old fogies (40+) are going to be replaced by the young guns that will grow up with e textbooks.

  73. why switch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is what people already have: a physical item bearing a DRM-free, read-only copy of a paged plaintext file, costing about $5-$8 for the lowest-quality item. The item requires no batteries, and does not need to connect to any network to enable the file to be read.

    Here is what publishers are offering: a license to a DRM-encumbered file that requires additional hardware and your own network connection, costing 100% or more of the cost of a printed book.

    Therefore, I conclude that eBooks have not taken over because people aren't stupid.

    Publishers ought to be putting eBooks on ROM chips in a USB and SD compatible form factor, and selling these chips in retail outlets next to the print books and the eBook readers, but at a lower price.

  74. There is one definite drawback, the book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is a thing, not a machine. The only things you need is a light source, and the knowledge to read it. Also, you can preserve it easily for 100 or 1000 years. Good luck with with an (any) electronic reader after 30 years. You have to find and buy a new one, and of course compatible with all the previous ebooks you own.

  75. Fundamental Flaw in eBook by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    Ownership and the transfer of said ownership is a fundamental flaw in eBooks that keeps me from buying them in most situations.

    When I buy a paper book I own it.
    I can read it.
    I can reread it.
    I can lend it to a friend.
    I can give it to a friend. Or a stranger.
    I can sell the book on ebay or what ever.
    I can cut out the pages and use them for wall paper.
    If I die my books are part of my estate and pass to my kin.

    When I buy an eBook I don't own it.
    Not according to the publishers.
    I am only licensing it.
    I can't lend it to a friend.
    I can't give it to a friend or anyone else.
    I can't sell the book on ebay or anywhere else.
    I can't cut and paste the book onto my wall, legally.
    If I die my children can't inherit my eBooks.
    eBooks suck for these reasons.
    Most of this has to do with greed on the part of the publishers.

    When they solve the rights of ownership issue then eBooks will be more interesting.

  76. Collections out of control. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch an episode of Hoarders and wonder no more.

  77. I miss physical bookstores. by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

    I really miss physical bookstores. The only new books store in my town was a Borders and it closed last year. I have to drive more than 10 miles to get to a book store so I rarely do. I liked wandering through the aisles, seeing thousands of titles laid out physically according to genre and author. I liked seeing the other people wandering the aisles too. Half an hour at the bookstore was not time wasted. It takes me LONGER to find a title I want to buy online.

    Also, I want to share books I buy with my wife, so we share the same Amazon account. Only thing is, she reads more books than me and our reading interests only have about a 30% overlap. So 70% of the books she buys are things I would never read and that's what the on-line seller uses to generate suggestions for me. Consequently the suggestions are dominated by books I will never want to read.

    Other than my wife's questionable reading choices, I don't know what else is going on at Amazon that seems to be keeping me from finding books I want to read. But there sure seems to be something. Maybe they promote books on which they make the most profit. Or maybe it's the flood of books that never would have been published in the bad old days of print books.

    Of course, there were plenty of bad books then too. But for every great book that is now published because no print publisher would touch it there must be 20 pieces of garbage cluttering up the e-sellers' virtual bookshelves.

  78. Nostalgia Is Not A Feature by chimerafun · · Score: 1

    I think both physical and digital formats have their place. What really chaps my arse though is when people talk about not switching because of smell or feel or some other nostalgic garbage. Nostalgia is not a durable value proposition. You like the smell of a book because your brain ties it to memories of your youth securely snuggled in a blanket or on a couch, this is good for you but is not a value proposition that you can sell to future generations. More and more their sensory experiences will be tied to the tactile experience of using a reader or a tablet.

  79. That's just early adopters by iamacat · · Score: 1

    Reading any kind of book in any kind of situation is better on a retina iPad than on paper. Once everyone can afford and has time to try similar and better devices, paper books are kaput. And yes there are niche markets like an $4.99 paperback to read on a beach vacation with high theft/damage concerns, or conversly high quality collectible volumes, but by and large people will read on the screen.

  80. Geek dogma by anyaristow · · Score: 1

    That's just geek dogma, and some of it is just incorrect.

    The fundamental flaw is price, as a nearly full-price ebook makes you miss those things. If it was cheaper you might be willing to sacrifice those things, as most of the value of a book is in your own use in your own lifetime.

    I say "might be willing", because obviously if this stuff is dogma for you, you wouldn't be willing.

  81. Multiple SWOOSHes by dwye · · Score: 1

    Swoosh, AC as well as whoever modded aztektum's post as Flamebait.

  82. Someone already beat you to it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found this whole thing so offensive, I started working on Ebooks.coop, to provide a path out of the walled garden.

    I found a lot of free books on this site here

  83. This must be the followup by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    ... to the previous article "E-books are the death of printed books"

  84. Slashdot: News for Nerds? by noobermin · · Score: 1

    Reading these comments makes one think that this is a forum for the technophobic.

    I don't know how many times I tell this to people, it just is a problem with medium. There is nothing great about the medium of a paper book. Where a e-book can easily be deleted, so a dead tree book can easily be torched in a flame. There is nothing magical about the old "interesting smelling" book that was mass produced on a printing press over one that had been copied by scribes merticulously for years (these probably smell much more interesting, mind you).

    Most of this "quicker" crap is just relying on learned behavior. Honestly, I learned Quantum Field Theory from a pdf (Srednicki preprint) and General Relativity (Misner, et. al.) from a book (to Srednicki, I promise, I will buy the actual book someday!) With my study of both books, I found that I adapted different habits for both, to the point that it felt awkward reading Srednicki on my laptop screen instead of the lcd in my room because of the smaller screen. I could change the zoom to where they both have the same type size, it just felt awkward not seeing the whole page. Was there any need for such a tall view? No...I just had grown to be used to it.

    I found similar issues with the other book too. A few days ago, I was running around testing coffee at various shops and I found it harsh to carry the massive Misner, et. al. around (the thing is like a telephone book, wonderful book though!) and it was embarrasing to whip it out, honestly--imagine a bunch of hipsters onlooking in horror as you take out that book and sip your coffee! I found that it was scanned on Google books, so the next time out, I just used that on my phone. Was it more awkward? You bet! Was the information any different (is an exterior derivative different on a phone screen versus a dead tree page)? No, but it did affect how I felt reading it in this new form.

    Was it harder to find pages in Srednicki over Misner for me? No, for the latter, I used page tags; the former, I tended to remember page numbers or offsets from the start of chapter. Again, different habits for different media, and I understand both at the same level. In fact, I think I feel better with QFT over GR.

    Look, nostalgia is nice, but that only affects you. I think the only reason that e-books are still faultering are implementation issues, such as DRM, improving (while needing improvement) reader programs/apps, and rendering issues. Imagine if they didn't print books in easy to read serif types: you can have so much nostalgia about it that you can bottle it and sell it to wanting amnesiatic, but that doesn't mean with time, you can't become more profficient with an easier to read typeface.

    1. Re:Slashdot: News for Nerds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the only reason that e-books are still *faultering* are implementation issues

      Like the absence of a spell-checker?

  85. Ahem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surely you mean there are still Kindle makers in existence.

    FTFY

  86. Assorted Points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (a) The price point for Kindle books (and others) is totally off. Sure, if the book is exclusively physically available as a $30 hardcover, then in that case a $13 e-book pricing is acceptable, but if I can get new physical copies for $6-8 (or used copies for $3), why would I pay $13 for an e-book? Are you mad?

    (b) Well, I would pay $13 because e-books don't consume a book's worth of tree, nor do they incur the negative externality of the chemical processing of its pulp. (Yeah, I care about the environment, albeit buying a used book somewhat side-steps these issues.)

    (c) E-books are immediate: we can make totally impulsive purchases, anywhere. From this standpoint e-book prices should be lower to incentivize us, I hypothesize.

    (d) The DRM situation is not good. Although I generally don't re-read books (I get around this by writing down all the good quotations and making notes on my sole read-through, thus I only have to re-read the good parts), sometimes I do want to lend them to friends. Solution: if I buy a book, and you, the publisher, give me a DRM version, I go and steal a copy from piratebay using a coffee shop's wireless. I _own_ this shit, dog.

    (e) Some books just aren't good for the e-format. Lonely Planets on e-readers? They suck. Anything where you're going to be flipping around a lot or randomly accessing certain pages is just not going to make for a good experience on an e-reader at this point, unless you feel like developing ninja skills with the search utilities.

    (f) Other languages: I speak Japanese, and so far Japanese publishers have largely refused to sell e-books, allegedly because it cuts into their existing infrastructure and profits. Like why would they simply hand over their margins to this American "Amazon" company? On that note, Japan has been raping its own forests (heya, rural Shikoku) and Taiwan's (back in the day) and pretty much everywhere else in its hunger for wood and paper. (Not that the US isn't a resource-devourer and -waster, but that's not the point here.) Point being I would love to be able to buy Japanese language books in the US (without paying absurd import fees and currency conversion fees), from my couch, DRM-free, in an environmentally-conscious manner (I love your nature, Japan!), but my desires probably won't be met until a shift occurs in the larger consumption habits of the Japanese populous as a whole, in terms what they demand and expect of their book publishers.

    Just get me some (Haruki Murakami) on my Kindle, dagnabbit!

    1. Re:Assorted Points by sandysnowbeard · · Score: 1

      (a) The price point for Kindle books (and others) is totally off. Sure, if the book is exclusively physically available as a $30 hardcover, then in that case a $13 e-book pricing is acceptable, but if I can get new physical copies for $6-8 (or used copies for $3), why would I pay $13 for an e-book? Are you mad?

      (b) Well, I would pay $13 because e-books don't consume a book's worth of tree, nor do they incur the negative externality of the chemical processing of its pulp. (Yeah, I care about the environment, albeit buying a used book somewhat side-steps these issues.)

      (c) E-books are immediate: we can make totally impulsive purchases, anywhere. From this standpoint e-book prices should be lower to incentivize us, I hypothesize.

      (d) The DRM situation is not good. Although I generally don't re-read books (I get around this by writing down all the good quotations and making notes on my sole read-through, thus I only have to re-read the good parts), sometimes I do want to lend them to friends. Solution: if I buy a book, and you, the publisher, give me a DRM version, I go and steal a copy from piratebay using a coffee shop's wireless. I _own_ this shit, dog.

      (e) Some books just aren't good for the e-format. Lonely Planets on e-readers? They suck. Anything where you're going to be flipping around a lot or randomly accessing certain pages is just not going to make for a good experience on an e-reader at this point, unless you feel like developing ninja skills with the search utilities.

      (f) Other languages: I speak Japanese, and so far Japanese publishers have largely refused to sell e-books, allegedly because it cuts into their existing infrastructure and profits. Like why would they simply hand over their margins to this American "Amazon" company? On that note, Japan has been raping its own forests (heya, rural Shikoku) and Taiwan's (back in the day) and pretty much everywhere else in its hunger for wood and paper. (Not that the US isn't a resource-devourer and -waster, but that's not the point here.) Point being I would love to be able to buy Japanese language books in the US (without paying absurd import fees and currency conversion fees), from my couch, DRM-free, in an environmentally-conscious manner (I love your nature, Japan!), but my desires probably won't be met until a shift occurs in the larger consumption habits of the Japanese populous as a whole, in terms what they demand and expect of their book publishers.

      Just get me some (Haruki Murakami) on my Kindle, dagnabbit!

      Oops, that was my post. Didn't mean to be an Anonymous Coward. Those slippery cookies!

  87. E-readers rule! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a Nook Color 7" that has 28805 e-books, about 70 pdfs, and approximately 30 magazines (and have another 5000+ that I would like to load, but need to get a bigger Micro SD card). At home I have 2 large bookshelves that are triple stacked with about 500 books. Between the two I much prefer the e-books. The e-books cover business/management (85 books on that electronic shelf), programming/web/DBs, non-fiction (politics / history / physics / calculus, chess), science fiction, horror, military and so on. Do I really need all these books. Yes, I really do and really enjoy them. Do I *really* need to have a copy of CRC Handbook of Chemisty and Physics available to read (yes, I know no one (short of a Sheldon Cooper type) really reads it, it is a look up reference book) while I am waiting in the supermarket line? No, but I still would like it to be available.

    Practically speaking, do you really want to lug 7 or so printed tech manuals into work with you each day? How about to a client site in case you need to look up something? How about bringing those gotta-read-latest-books (ex Brent Weeks) to bed? Do you really want to clutter up your nightstand with tall stacks of books? E-book readers rule!

    In the long term paper books sales will diminish and dwindle but will never disappear. In general consumers will buy whatever is most convenient for them for the price. For most people right now that may not be e-reader devices and eBooks. However just like computers took a while to become mainstream with consumers it is now and most US households now have at least one computer. Computers never created the "paperless" office, but certainly greatly reduced the amount of paper used. The same will be true of e-book readers.

  88. It's trade paperbacks, really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Books will never completely go away. There will always be collectors and those willing to pay more for the latest big name author's new hardcover book. Where ebooks will slowly replace existing paper books are in the realm of trade paperbacks. Here the prices are closer to the same as is the purpose (buying less to keep/collect the book forever and more for "something to read"- often on the go- which is where ebooks shine). The irony is that it may actually HELP local bookstores as the big name chains- er now only chain (in the US, at least)- will be harder pressed to maintain their store size and product mix as paperback sales begin to diminish (over time, though, this isn't something that'll happen all at once).

    In short- there will always be specialty bookstores, we'll keep seeing big name authors' new hardcovers for sale at the grocery store, books aren't going away. It's only the (slow) death of trade paperbacks that we'll watch.

    I'm also predicting the same with with gasoline engines. A few decades from now we may be having this conversation about them and may be reading a "Death of Gasoline Engines May Have Been Exaggerated" post to talk about. But then, the same issue will be there. There will still be collectables and specialized, highly tuned (and highly expensive) gasoline powered cars for enthusiasts and collectors. But that doesn't mean the rest of us won't be moving (or have moved) onto other means for transportion (some form of electric vehicle being the most likely).

  89. Travelling light. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agreed. I'm afraid a lot of people haven't experienced that feeling that you can't do what you want, because of your possessions. Even getting rid of them can be a long chore.

  90. Speed by Lucidus · · Score: 1

    I am an avid reader who just received my first Kindle as a Christmas present. A couple of books later, I have noticed that my reading speed on the Kindle is a fraction of what it is for the same text on paper. I decided to re-read a novel before starting its sequel, and after a few chapters switched back to my old paperback. I found myself reading about 3 times faster on the physical book.

    This is at least partly because there is so little text per page on the Kindle, a function of both display size and line- and letter-spacing. But beyond that there is also an issue with readability or legibility. The font used on these devices is remarkably ugly.

    These are not permanent, unchangeable characteristics of E-readers, so I hope things will get better as the products evolve.

  91. E-books are not yours by wakeboarder · · Score: 1

    I won't buy ebooks because they are not mine, I can't store them away on a shelf in the even the service goes down and I can't look up the DRM. If the service goes down permanently, I loose my collection! I can't loan an ebook out to a friend. The worst problem is I cannot resell an ebook. An I still don't understand why publishers are making consumers pay an exorbitant cost for them, the publishers don't even have to pay for the printing anymore. Until all of these problems are solved I will buy very little ebooks.

  92. 'twas upon a fine morrow I purveyed a farthingale by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Classics? That's like the shit with looooooong words and no pictures?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  93. Ebooks are great by Highland+Deck+Box · · Score: 1

    Honestly I find my Kindle pretty great. I live in a fairly small flat and i'm out of room for books unless I want to have piles of them stacked on the floor. I've just bought the latest Wheel of Time book in hardback because the Kindle version isn't out till April, going back to a huge heavy awkward thing like that is going to be such a pain after the ease of reading on the Kindle. Honestly digitalisation is pretty great, yeah it's neat to go down the charity shop and pick up some random old paperbacks for a couple quid, but you just can't beat the convenience of downloading and reading something instantly.

  94. Books are Alive by betterprimate · · Score: 1

    This reminds me of Lawrence Durrell passing by a burnt-down storefront and finding a book lying on the street in perfect condition. The contents, he claims, seemed to have changed his life.

    This is how readers often find the important books in our lives.

    I don't think the same thing happens or can happen with eBooks.

    1. Re:Books are Alive by gargleblast · · Score: 1

      Fascinating story - please post a link.

      On second thoughts, make that a hardcopy citation.

  95. Re:'twas upon a fine morrow I purveyed a farthinga by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

    Classics? That's like the shit with looooooong words and no pictures?

    Slashdot. News for... autistic 11-year-olds with a vocabulary of 50 words and the attention span of a flea.

    Sigh.

  96. Ebooks and print books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It might spur the distribution of e-books if they went the Blue Ray direction and offered a digital copy with the hard copy.

  97. Pricing and the ability to resell by Rastl · · Score: 1

    Those are, IMO, the two things keeping e-book sales low. Why should the hardcover edition cost $15 and the e-book $14? For the extra buck I get a physical product that can never be taken away from me and that I can resell if I choose.

    Publishers are greedy and don't want e-books to be successful. They give crappy OCR, non-proofed copies when they could easily create perfect electronic versions and do everything they can to drive the purchaser away from e-books.

    I finally got tired of hauling books around and went with e-books for a very select set of series and use the public library for everything else. Publishers would get a lot more of my money if they didn't act like pricks when it comes to e-books.

  98. For the hard of hearing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Printed books have a few remarkable advantages over eBooks:

    - They do not require a power source.
    - When purchased, you own them, they are not licensed.
    - You can really share them with you friends, even without an network/Internet/USB connection.
    - They are often cheaper than their electronic versions (e.g., Fifty Shades of Grey).
    - They only use recyclable materials.
    - If they get wet, you can simply dry them up and they will still be perfectly readable.
    - You and your children will still be able to read them fifty years form now.

  99. My own perspective by amanaplanacanalpanam · · Score: 1
    I love the abilities to search for (or even count the instances of) a certain word or phrase, to copy/paste, to get a word definition with negligible time/effort (simply highlight and click/tap), to have multiple bookmarks for favorite passages without all the clutter of...multiple bookmarks, and to carry an arbitrary weight of knowledge around - entire libraries-worth - without a proportional encumbrance.

    That being said, there are times I find paper handier. It's often simpler to flip back and forth between specific sections/pages in an actual book, to get a feel for context And I do attach a certain sentimentality to physical books. The image in my mind of the traditional study - a room dedicated to a personal library, with a tall-backed chair, and maybe an enormous globe, surrounded by towering shelves filled with hundreds and hundreds of books new and old - is a fond one. Or the connection with history I feel when, for example, running my hands over some eldritch leather-bound tome from the local library's special collections, or feeling the crisp pages of my gilt-edged copy of Lord of the Rings, or seeing the (often funny or interesting) annotations left in the margins by a previous reader, or opening a well-worn book that my grandparents owned, knowing that their eyes once gazed over the very same ink and pulp. I find it hard to imagine quite the same experiences translating over to the electronic version.

    Maybe one day a descendant of mine 10 generations hence will view a copy of my data (that is maybe 30 or more electronic generations hence), yet but for bit identical, and have a similar, if not quite identical experience.

    Of course, if they have the actual devices I owned (provided they can still find/devise a compatible means to power them up), that would be something else.

  100. Multiple Reasons by athenaprime · · Score: 2

    Not the least of which is that the rights which the publisher has for every book, and the terms of their licensing of those rights from the author is different. There are hundreds of older titles that publishers technically own the digital rights to (under some "future delivery system" clause in the contract) and are attempting to recreate/exploit (sometimes from an archaic printer's file or even hard copies scanned in by poorly-paid interns--and no, the printer's file is not the same as the ebook files).

    The other (bigger) reason is the way book sales are structured in paperland versus ebookworld. And it's what got the big 6 publishers in trouble. When you're dealing with a physical product, the retail stream goes like this: Publisher produces the book->Distributor purchases the item from publisher at wholesale price->Retailer purchases the item from Distributor at retailer discount->Consumer purchases the item from Retailer at cover price (or more likely, discount). In that revenue stream, the Publisher gets paid 40% of the cover price of the book, no matter how much or how little the Consumer ends up paying for it (it's why you can find hardcovers at four bucks on the bargain table).

    The big publishers negotiated with Amazon, at the dawn of the digital book age, to treat their digital content like physical content. Amazon purchases X copies at 60% discount of cover price, then turns around and sells the ebooks for whatever they want. But then things changed, and the publishers did not want electronic sales cutting into the more lucrative hardcover or paperbacks, so they turned around and re-negotiated something called 'Agency pricing' where the publishers got to set the price of the ebook, and Amazon could not discount at its discretion (but the publisher could). Since discounting is usually done to shift inventory, and digital inventory doesn't exist, and the publishers didn't get paid until the ebooks actually sold on Amazon, the publishers wanted their percentage of the full cover price. But because they all colluded, the US DOJ found that a bit of a no-no.

    So as a result, you see deep discounts of hardbacks to move inventory out of a warehouse, but an ebook stays the same price because there is no physical inventory.

    On the other end (the content-provider end, aka the "pay the author" end), many book contracts were negotiated to offer authors a royalty percentage of cover price *no matter what actual price the book sold at* and very quickly, ebooks became an albatross around the necks of traditional publishers because they tried to fit a digital product into a physical business model.

    Us indie authors do things directly. We pay up front for author services like formatting, editorial services, art licensing for covers, and the covers themselves. We upload our ebooks direct to retailers like Amazon or B&N or to distributor-retailers like Smashwords (which can get you into a myriad of smaller/foreign to USA/or Apple retailers). The retailers take their cut first (about 30% or so) and we get the rest. We set our own prices, discount when we want to, and retain our publication rights. When you buy an ebook from an indie author, you're mostly supporting the person who did most of the work, with a little tip to the infrastructure that hooked you up with the book. And on the "book creation" end, it's still the same amount of work that goes into crafting a story for digital consumption as much as physical consumption.

    1. Re:Multiple Reasons by Raxxon · · Score: 1

      For older books, you would be correct to state that there is much more work involved. I was being a bit too generalist there, I should have specified that I was talking more about "current generation" publications. But in the 'current generation' of books while the printer file is not the same as the ebook produced, the conversion between the two isn't has complicated or as hard or as costly as the actual printing/warehousing/shipping of physical media.

      The price not going down because they don't store the ebook the same way as a physical book they're wanting to reclaim warehouse space from is another point of "profiteering bastard". "We don't *have* to drop the price because we're making more money on this due to lack of paying as much for it".

      Yes, in general this is another problem of "Make the Digital Business Model work like our old Physical Business Model" problem... Find a new business model. Try something new. Evolve. Invent. Adapt.

  101. e- book or book ? by bakgor · · Score: 1
    Her ne olursa olsun. e-kitap asla ve asla! elimize alip okudugumuz bir kitap kadar eglenceli olamaz. Teknoloji gelistikce bizden birseyler gidiyor.

    En kaliteli chat chat odalar sayesinde kimse arkadasz kalmayacak

    Üyeliksiz sohbet sohbet - chat sitemize giri yapabilir online sohbet etmeye balayabilirsiniz haberler ve magazin okuyabilirsiniz..

    chat siteleri olarak canl arkadalar kzlarla sohbet edebilirsiniz.

  102. *blink* by AdamWill · · Score: 1

    "that e-books are well suited to some types of books (like genre fiction) but not well suited to other types (like...literary fiction)"

    I can see 'nonfiction' (the bit I elided) as non-linear reading is still a pain on ebooks. But this one just baffled me. 'Genre fiction' and 'literary fiction' both consist in the main of your classic 350 page novel, in chapters, read in order: how can ebooks possibly be suited to one but not to the other?

    Oh right! I forgot. Most literary fiction 'readers' don't read their literary fiction, they just leave it lying around prominently to let everyone know how intellectual they are. You can't do that with an ebook. Got it.

  103. quality not vehicle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People prefer different things but it all comes down to quality. There have been several e-books that would never have been printed by the big publishing companies, but they gained e-book success. These successes are now becoming more common place and publishers are now more open to new submissions from unknown authors than ever before. It's a self-correcting system. The real problem is the appalling lack of book 'readers', so now that we are getting better quality books how do we get people back into the habit of consuming them?

  104. Re:I don't even know anyone with a tablet or e-dev by rleesBSD · · Score: 1

    The crappy thing is that I knew about e-ink two years before it was commercialized into the ebooks, but didn't have the liquid doe-rah-mee to invest at the time. Now, kick self in butt, kick self in butt ....

  105. Papyrus is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pulp 'n' ink has been compatible with human eyeballs for 5,000 years. You can STILL read scrolls today (assuming you speak ancient languages). You can't say the same with e-books.

  106. E-Books are for morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not only is it harder to read a book on a computer or one of those lame embedded devices, there are too many negatives with e-books.

    1. They take away first-sale doctrine.
    2. You can not easily mark, make notations, etc
    3. Depending on where you buy it *cough* amazon, you risk getting it taken away at any time.
    4. E-book readers can break, making it expensive to replace it just so you can read what you already paid for.
    5. Format incompatibility. If you have some reader today and next year a new awesome format comes out and only new stuff uses it, you are at the mercy of your hardware vender to provide an update.

    It has exactly two advantages:

    1. Easier to lug around then a stack of books.
    2. Makes it easier for would-be authors to self-publish.

    People generally aren't stupid and buying e-books is stupidity defined.