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Anonymous Helps Find Evidence In Gang Rape Case

jfruh writes "Evidence of a gang rape committed by members of an Ohio high school football team, including video, was, in the way of digital native teenagers today, put online on various social media sites — and was quickly taken down as students began realizing the magnitude of the situation. The hactivist group Anonymous has been able to find archived and cached versions of the damning content, which may help prosecutors make their case." (The original story from December at the New York Times adds more detail.)

436 comments

  1. Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No boundaries, no jurisdictions... just results.

    All of the power of the harnessed internet with the face of the silent auction bidder.

    1. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by kilodelta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know. I love what Anonymous is doing. It's the Justice League of the net.

    2. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Applekid · · Score: 3, Funny

      So, who are the Legion of Doom?

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    3. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by EdZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anonymous.

    4. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, and they would never frame anybody or tamper with evidence or anything, because their motives are always pure and above reproach. And unlike public officers, they're completely accountable!

      Wait, who are these people again?

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    5. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh. They're chaotic-whatthefuck. They do what they want with no regard for impact, just attention.

    6. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Zephyn · · Score: 5, Funny

      Its parent groups were killed off while it was watching, what else did you expect?

    7. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by epp_b · · Score: 2

      Ha, I thought precisely the same thing as I parsed the headline.

      It's interesting to see how they've gone from hated, wanted outlaws to (at least in my mind) maybe-they're-not-so-bad...

    8. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      High school football teams.

    9. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, who are the Legion of Doom?

      The MPAA/RIAA, obviously.

    10. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, and they would never frame anybody or tamper with evidence or anything, because their motives are always pure and above reproach. And unlike public officers, they're completely accountable!

      Wait, who are these people again?

      I can't tell if you're a smart guy trying to slam Anonymous or an idiot idolizing public officers. Either could be corrupt and/or unaccountable. Anonymous, however, has no vested interest either way in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team (which, if you read the NYT article, seems to be the main concern of many in the town)

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    11. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by crazyjj · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Being a nerd, I feel compelled to point out that Batman has TONS of boundaries. He won't use guns, won't kill--generally won't do anything to criminals aside from beating them up and maybe helping provide some evidence for police of their criminal activity (evidence that would almost certainly be worthless in a courtroom). It's one of the many reasons why he and other comic book heroes look great in a comic book or movie, but could never exist in real life.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    12. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      High school football teams.

      They're more like the Legion of Dumb.

    13. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by tnk1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anonymous has no accountability at all. If taken with a grain of salt and backed by good police work, what they provide could very well be useful, but they're essentially no different than the anonymous tip line. Tips do provide leads, but they also provide a significant ratio of noise as well.

      We need police forces that at least have checks on them, even if they are sometimes broken. We definitely cannot rely on, or uncritically applaud the motives of those who choose to take certain actions under the Anonymous umbrella. It's like saying that being a little biased or corrupt is the same thing as being completely uncontrolled to begin with. The "intentions" of an anonymous tipster can be anything from helpful to just trolling or even character assassination, at the worst.

      So, let me say "Good job" to the individuals who ran down this data, but given the fact that there are no entry requirements for the group, Anonymous remains, as always, completely unpredictable in both quality of work, and even intent.

    14. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't tell if you're a smart guy trying to slam Anonymous or an idiot idolizing public officers

      I was trying to say that the only difference between Anonymous and public officers is accountability. Public officers are also prone to frame someone or tamper with evidence -- this happens frequently. But the fact that they're accountable is important, and makes me more inclined to trust lawful authorities than a faceless mob.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    15. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Man, they crossed that line in my mind loooong ago. Sure, there's a ton of stupid shit they do, but the 'good' shit by FAR outweighs it.

      They do what the 1% and their bought and paid for enforcers refuse to.

    16. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by tattood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is, that if Anonymous obtained the videos illegally, then the police will not be able to use it to prosecute the people that did it. The police can only use evidence in a trial that was gathered legally via a warrant.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    17. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by mellon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup, because when the authorities frame people and then later get caught, they almost always get punished, and the victims exonerated. Oh wait, no, that's not what happens...

    18. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by thoth · · Score: 1

      Wait, who are these people again?

      Folks who apparently can search and discover cached videos that moron criminals took and placed online.
      I say good for them... law enforcement and citizens in general should be grateful.

      There's no evidence of tampering or framing or anything.

    19. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The meeting will now come to order, the Legion of Doom is now in Session. In a Short while, the Justice...

      Yes, Brainiac?

    20. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous, however, has no vested interest either way in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team (which, if you read the NYT article, seems to be the main concern of many in the town)

      Unless you know the folks that make up Anonymous, you have absolutely no way to know that. For all you know they're made up of members of a rival high school that would have a vested interest in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team.

    21. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was wondering Luthor if I could perhaps have a pair of PANTS!

    22. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Black+Diamond · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I thought that as long as the police had no active hand in the illegal gathering of evidence, then it's still legal for them to use it. I'm sure it's considerably more complicated than that, and perhaps a real lawyer will chime in.

    23. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not true at all. Police can use evidence obtained by other people illegally as long as they didn't request it and what not. If someone simply goes out and gets the evidence and passes it on then the police have done nothing wrong.

    24. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by MrEdofCourse · · Score: 5, Informative

      IANAL, but I don't think that's true. I believe the prosecution can use illegally obtained evidence if it was obtained by non-government individuals. See:
      Supreme Court Decision BURDEAU v. MCDOWELL, 256 U.S. 465 (1921)

    25. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Reo+Strong · · Score: 1

      I think you may be incorrect. As long as the police did not break the law while obtaining the evidence, I believe it can be accepted in court.

      --
      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -Anon.
    26. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think browsing sites' caches and archived versions is illegal activity, and I don't think the idiots had any expectation of privacy when uploading their boasts there. If it was dowloaded from public area of public site, what's there to be inadmissible?

    27. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by in10se · · Score: 5, Informative

      IANAL: Not sure if that's true. If the police obtained the evidence illegally, it could not be used in court. However if someone else obtains it illegally (who has no connection with the police) and provides it to them, then it can be used.

      "Evidence unlawfully obtained from the defendant by a private person is admissible. The exclusionary rule is designed to protect privacy rights, with the Fourth Amendment applying specifically to government officials."
      - Burdeau v. McDowell, 256 U.S. 465

      --
      Popisms.com - Connecting pop culture
    28. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by ohnocitizen · · Score: 2

      If they are truly anonymous, how do you know if they have a vested interest in anything or anyone?

    29. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Sez+Zero · · Score: 1

      Anonymous has no accountability at all. If taken with a grain of salt and backed by good police work, what they provide could very well be useful, but they're essentially no different than the anonymous tip line. Tips do provide leads, but they also provide a significant ratio of noise as well.

      Significant public noise, which might make it difficult to select an unbiased jury in the area.

    30. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by flink · · Score: 1

      Police can sometimes use illegally obtained evidence if it was obtained by a private citizen whose actions were not directed by the police. That citizen is still liable for the criminal acts they committed to obtain the evidence, but the evidence itself isn't necessarily poison fruit.

    31. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, since the members of Anonymous are anonymous, someone could well be both a public officer and a member of Anonymous. Indeed, that would be an easy way for a public officer to "legitimize" illegally acquired digital material: Post it as Anonymous, and then "obtain" it from that post. I'm pretty sure such "evidence laundering" would be illegal, but how would you prove it?

    32. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by jythie · · Score: 1

      Well, the Legion of Doom was always rather easily foiled... so Dumb might be appropriate....

    33. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's cute that you think public officers are held accountable. See http://www.copblock.org/ for many examples - too many - where you're far from right.

    34. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Thomasje · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, and they would never frame anybody or tamper with evidence or anything, because their motives are always pure and above reproach. And unlike public officers, they're completely accountable!

      Wait, who are these people again?

      I can't tell if you're a smart guy trying to slam Anonymous or an idiot idolizing public officers. Either could be corrupt and/or unaccountable. Anonymous, however, has no vested interest either way in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team (which, if you read the NYT article, seems to be the main concern of many in the town)

      How would you know Anonymous has no vested interest? You don't even know who they are. It worries me that people refer to Anonymous as an entity, rather than a mask of anonymity that could be worn by anyone or everyone, and that people ascribe lofty motivations to what is just another bunch of ACs.
      Also, lack of vested interest, proven or not, is no guarantee of benign intent. I was falsely accused of several acts of vandalism once, back in school. Once the accusation was made, the entire class believed it and turned against me, and several came forward in following days making additional accusations. I didn't do any of those things but that made no difference to the court of public opinion. Now, you could argue that a bunch of stupid naive kids can't be expected to make sound judgements as to what is true and what is false, but unfortunately most adults are just as credulous, and for anyone to throw accusations about in public can create a dangerous situation. Not something I'd applaud the way I see people doing here. The place to find truth is in a proper court of law, not the court of public opinion.

    35. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      You are misinformed. Stores all over the nation use video to prosecute shoplifters everyday.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    36. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by aquabats · · Score: 1

      The defense would have to prove these videos were infarct obtained illegally, while the prosecution tries to prove they were obtained legally. Logically the burden is on the defense because the football players posted the videos on a public social website. Thus making it publicly accessible, and legally obtainable at the time of posting. Unfortunately (in this case) we dont live in ancient Rome, and the burden is placed on prosecution to prove the video was obtained legally.So was it obtained prior to them deleting it? Will they subpoena the social media sites? I can see this quickly becoming a case of "how does the judge feel that day". -Internet-Fake-Lawyer

    37. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous, however, has no vested interest either way in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team

      [citation needed]

    38. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but I have a pair of PANTALOONS that you may have. They're STYLISH.

    39. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Anonymous broke into a coach's email account and downloaded his email. While it doesn't contain direct connection to this rape, there are photos of nude teenagers and, to correlate, a non-nude photo of a different teenager who was raped in a different town under similar circumstances.

    40. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Adolf+Hipster · · Score: 0

      Solomon Grundy want pants too!

    41. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't even need to have any connection to the town to have some interest in it. They could just be meditative by amusement in creating a mess.

    42. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 2

      You're hilariously naive about law.

      ONLY COPS ARE RESTRICTED IN THAT WAY.

      If I participate in a crime, I see someone else do it, and then the cops catch me, DUH the cops can get me to rat on my friends and testify against them. You think because I saw them committing a crime while I was committing a crime, that my testimony doesn't count as evidence in court?

      Ugh, public education, ladies and gentlemen.

      The fruit of the poisoned tree rule only applies to cops, to prevent cops from abusing their authority. Citizens have absolutely NO such restriction. I can break into your house, find a video of you stealing something, and then mail it to the cops anonymously. The cops receive it anonymously, they haven't broken any laws, so it works just fine as evidence and you're arrested.

      Its actually a pretty big loophole that a lawyer could knowingly take some evidence obtained illegally and mail it to the cops anonymously, thus "laundering" the evidence, but its not a common situation.

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    43. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by hypergreatthing · · Score: 2

      They're accountable? By what evidence do you speak of? Show me cases where police screwed up and were held accountable. I'll show you countless more where they were given paid vacations and a raise.

    44. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference though, is that the faceless mob takes the authority, albeit misguided. Whereas LEO's are granted authority by the public. As far as accountability? I'd take LEO's more seriously if DA's and Justice officials held them to that perceived higher standard. They don't, and that is why I distrust law enforcement in general. It's brothers protecting brothers, and they get away with murder at times.

    45. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      IANAL, but I thought that as long as the police had no active hand in the illegal gathering of evidence, then it's still legal for them to use it. I'm sure it's considerably more complicated than that, and perhaps a real lawyer will chime in.

      It likely could be thrown out of court by the defense...I forget the term but something like "Chain of authority" in the handling of evidence.

      Not to mention the source being Anonymous...defense would posit that the evidence could have been tampered with by a rogue hacker group, and would be extremely likely to be tainted.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    46. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The MAFIAA, who else?

    47. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by anotheryak · · Score: 1

      Unless it's Assange doing the raping. Then it's all lies by ungrateful whores.

    48. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    49. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2

      Couldn't this be used by the police as grounds for a warrant to search their source?

    50. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

      I dispute none of that. They're still more accountable than Anonymous.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    51. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by davydagger · · Score: 1

      the RIAA, the MPAA, rouge factions of various national governments, fully corrupt national governments, the mexican drug cartels, scientology, Wall Street, Islamic Fundimentalists

      Just about every ruthless bunch of powerholding organizations you can think of.

    52. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not exactly true either. In USA, prosecution can use evidence obtained illegally if they, the prosecution and official state agencies involved in the investigation, were not complicit, did not encourage, or otherwise invovle themselves in th gaining of the evidence. As long as that is true, the prosecution can use the evidence. Plus the comment below with the quote and you have the full view.

    53. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Given the amount of evidence that those public officers actively worked to cover up the rape (thus becoming accomplices) , your trust seems to be placed badly.

    54. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by cdrudge · · Score: 2

      From the sounds of the article, it would be hard to find a unbiased jury in the area anyways. The stadium holds half the population of the town. Everyone is related within a few degrees of the situation.

    55. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well yeah. This is a football team. You know, a bunch of dumb meatheads who used to pick on us in high school, or so the theory goes.

      Assange is one of "us"!

    56. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 2

      If several witnesses will testify that these are the exact pictures and movies they previously watched on profiles belonging to the suspects, the chain of evidence is not broken, since the real evidence here would be the testimony, not the media files themselves. Even if witnesses would testify that they watched pictures and movies that were deleted afterwards, it still counts as a witness testimony. The case against the suspects just grows stronger because there is a copy that is validated by the witnesses available to be played in court.

      --
      I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    57. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous has no accountability at all.

      Keep telling yourself that when the party van pulls up in your driveway.

    58. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      It likely could be thrown out of court by the defense...I forget the term but something like "Chain of authority" in the handling of evidence.

      "Chain of custody" is what you are looking for. The thing about things like this is that you don't use them in the final court case. You use them to force the email provider to recover the same emails from their backup tape. Or to get a confession. Or in a hundred other ways any competent cop (and yes, you should assume that the cop in your case will be competent) will tell you.

      On it's own this is probably not enough evidence to prosecute. It's certainly enough to raise reasonable suspicion.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    59. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Anonymous hive-mind has become an overall force for good, but did doxing the entire football team fall in that category? That's as creepily excessive as any rogue government.

    60. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not really a problem, they can easily use the footage to obtain a full confession. the footage itself may be inadmissible, but they will still convict.
      they'll probably get some kind of plea bargain or deal anyway...

    61. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by oursland · · Score: 1

      I believe there may be more evidence that Anonymous is more frequently held accountable through arrests, prosecutions, and institutionalization than the police.

    62. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      *All Fundamentalists.

      The Christian Fundamentalists have gotten their fair share too from Anonymous you know.

    63. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      Wasn't the video original posted online and then deleted? If so, it wasn't obtained illegally.

    64. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      What kind of horrid vandalism (or lame classmates) lead them all to turn against you.

      I was a local legend for painting the bulls balls in front of the KC board of trade (I had copycats, no balls were safe from the paint). And at that I was nothing next to the dude that put a cow that had died with a dead calf half born on the front steps of his high school (and got away with it).

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    65. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is that they confessed to the crime on video and uploaded that video to the internet and then realised what they had done, but by then the internet had made copies of it:

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=22UsHZXPi7Q

    66. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Also I remember a take on him were he actually enjoyed cracking ribs and commenting on how he had disabled them for life. That comic was highly controversial. Also Robin nearly killed Hal Jordan. In a room painted yellow. Stone cold bastard. Could've been one of the Miller ones.

      And even in the other comics I highly doubt he has never killed. A lot of his attacks were potentially lethal. Same goes for the Batman movies and games.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    67. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      High school football teams.

      It's amazing that nobody seems to have learned from countless incidents involving school team members and serious repercussions.

      This Rape Crew is particularly evil but the general bullying that jocks perpetrate against most everyone else, often with full support by their coach and/or the school administration, is a major issue as it tends to lead to suicides or school shootings (that usually also end in a suicide). This system is present on just about all schools with some kind of star sports team and the fallout is horrendous.

      Kudos to these Anonymous guys for stepping in and outing those jerks for the deranged perverts they are, hopefully destroying any chance they might have of any future sports career in the process.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    68. Re: Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congress and lobbyists.

    69. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except the evidence wasn't obtained illegally. There's nothing illegal about obtaining backup cashed copies of web pages. In this case, the involvement was entirely legal.

    70. Re:Anonymous has become Batman. by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Anonymous, however, has no vested interest either way in the lives, well-being and reputations of those in Steubenville Ohio - or their football team (which, if you read the NYT article, seems to be the main concern of many in the town)

      No? You're sure of that? Are you sure of the opposite - they don't have an axe to grind with any of the people involved?

      Because it seems to me, given the inclusive nature of Anonymous - that is, the membership requirement consists of saying you're in Anonymous - we really don't know what their motives are. Could be they're from across the country and really have no involvement - or it could be they're from across the street and doctored up some evidence.

  2. Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anonymous does something truly useful and good!

    Way to go guys!

    1. Re:Finally... by ciderbrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure they'll say the evidence isn't admissible.

    2. Re:Finally... by SirAstral · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, if the video can be forensically shown to be un-tampered with then it will be admissible. The nature of the evidence is taken into account as well as the methods of collection. In the case of video, anyone can find it under just about any circumstance because the actions depicted in the video is the evidence itself, which tends to avoid the issues associated with other types of evidence that can be planted which is why they have to follow a strict chain of custody and procedures.

      Its a lot more difficult to plant video evidence of you raping someone as opposed to me walking in and claiming I found this illegal gun with the serial filled off in your home.

    3. Re:Finally... by nametaken · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe, maybe not.

      More important, cops will know who to question directly, same as if they'd had an anonymous tip. They can do that.

      Apply pressure to the people involved, one will flip. Everyone goes down, one with a lesser charge.

    4. Re:Finally... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to some posts made by the suspects: they lured the girl to a party under false pretenses, drugged her, and then had her way with her. At one point, on video, they're caught commenting that they couldn't tell if she was passed out or dead and didn't care either way since they got their rocks off. Then commented/question on whether it's really rape if she never even got the chance to consent or say no.

      Really creepy stuff.

    5. Re:Finally... by crakbone · · Score: 2

      They just need to point to where the evidence is located not present it. The full forensic procedure can be followed.

    6. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be nice to be so off base. Are you honestly saying you couldn't take 4 seconds to even Google the issue? Maybe read anything? Nope? Well fuck me right. I should hire you on as my doctor, mechanic, lawyer, and life coach.

      Yes, you know it all prick, the only party saying it wasn't rape (including one of her rapists) is the defense lawyers.

    7. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You really ought to read the article so you can provide informed comments. Your basic premise is way off the mark. If the reports are true, these punks did hatch a plan to kidnap her, drug her, and abuse her for the purpose of retaliation. These sick, twisted little fuckers deserve the utmost that the law can throw at them. Don't even start blaming the victim, in this case.

    8. Re:Finally... by casings · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your conclusions are wrong, you are an idiot, and the world would be a much better place if you killed yourself.

    9. Re:Finally... by HaZardman27 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So even if she knew she was going to a party to drink and intentionally consume drugs, how the fuck does that make it ok for her to be assaulted while essentially unconscious?!

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    10. Re:Finally... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. And if she was lured under false pretenses, she could have easily been slipped something in an otherwise innocuous drink. Remember the recent news story about the kid who drugged her parents with sleep medicine in milkshakes so she could get more Facebook time? How easy would it have been to hand the girl a soda with some sleeping medicine (or something worse) mixed in. By the time she realizes what's up, she's waking up from having passed out the night before and the guys have violated her.

      As for the guys "debating" whether it's rape, consent isn't an opt-out system. It's not "you're allowed to do whatever you want to someone as long as they don't get the chance to say 'No'." It's opt-in. If the person doesn't say "yes" then you don't have consent. (Even if they say yes, there might be mitigating factors such as being drunk, underage, etc. But in general "yes = consent" and absence of yes = no consent.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    11. Re:Finally... by SB9876 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Wow, I've gotten used to running into worthless shitpiles on the internet but I honestly hope you go die in a fire.

    12. Re:Finally... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      Maybe, maybe not.

      More important, cops will know who to question directly, same as if they'd had an anonymous tip. They can do that.

      Apply pressure to the people involved, one will flip. Everyone goes down, one with a lesser charge.

      And cops know how to cover up for their friend's kids. Which is exactly what is happening in this case. If Anonymous had not stepped in, these fuckers would be getting off with little more than a slap on the wrist. Read up on this Sheriff Fred Abdalla.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    13. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No wonder you always get modded into oblivion. Now you aren't even a clever troll... just a typical lazy one. "I know a woman that is a slut, so all women are sluts."

    14. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if the video can be forensically shown to be un-tampered with then it will be admissible.

      I thought that if they post something like this online and later delete it, the file will still remain on a backup somewhere and it can be legally requested by the state.

    15. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut off the O'Reilly Factor and read a book.

      Oh and before you ask, no, not one of O'Reilly's books.

    16. Re:Finally... by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, because one person's mistake justifies another's crime. Would you be one of the guys waiting in line for your turn while telling your buddies that it's her fault for putting herself in this situation?

      --
      +1 Disagree
    17. Re:Finally... by misexistentialist · · Score: 0

      How is OK for her parents to neglect their child to such an extent? Unless they were deceived through extraordinary means they should be arrested too. Of course these girls continue in adulthood to get unconscious in public, so the problem remains unsolved.

    18. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous does something truly useful and good!

      Way to go guys!

      Yes. It is nice to see that perverts that save rape, murder and child pornography for various fapping need are able to reupload the video when it is need for evidence by the police. Proof that everything and everyone has a bright side.

    19. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're kidding right? 99% of these people probably did it so they could watch it and fap, and wish they were there.

      Why is this moded down? The only reason why they had saved the 'evidence' in first place is because they enjoyed watching it. You moderator obviously don't know shit about Anonymous.

    20. Re:Finally... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Not "justified", enabled. Don't feed the rapists!

    21. Re:Finally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see you've never had a child before. It's okay, you'll get it one day.

    22. Re:Finally... by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      OK, I can see where you're coming from as to the safety precautions women can take. It doesn't change the fact that a woman should be able to go out to drink and have a good time without needing to worry about getting rufeed and raped in the process. It's one thing to use it as a cautionary tale for women in the future - but your original post has a "bitch had it comin'" feel to it, whether you intended that or not.

      --
      +1 Disagree
  3. And still no death penalty for rape by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been half-heartedly following this story once I heard the initial reports and what took place was almost, but not quite, as bad as the Indian student who was attacked, raped and beaten on a bus in India and later died.

    This girl was, apparently, passed out drunk (she was 16) and while passed out, was raped by at least 2 members of the football. Her limp, violated, body was carried by her arms and legs, all while being recorded and while others stood by and did nothing.

    Some people present tweeted what was taking place, some took pictures and one shining example of the human race was recorded for a length of time bragging about how much she was fucked (worse than in the movie Pulp Fiction according to him). No one called the police.

    Further, when asked about how he would feel if his daughter was raped (he apparently at the ripe of a late teenager had a daughter) in 10 years, he pontificated that in ten years his daughter would be raped and dead. What a wonderful guy.

    While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society. There isn't something new in not raping, murdering, shooting, tealing from, beating or otherwise doing something to someone, and people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always thought the death penalty is the easy way out. I'm not sure I'd want to be in prison for the rest of my life (which could amount to 60 or more years), given what I've heard some prisons can be like.

      If you really want, we could still execute people, but let's stick 'em behind bars for a bit first.

    2. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2

      I would honestly rather not pay to keep these scumbags alive.

      These people chose their own fate. They chose to rape that girl. I have no sympathy because this isn't something that can happen by accident.

      "Yeah my dick just came out and dragged me over to her."

      No. Just end them. They are a serious threat to others and have shown it, willingly and without remorse.

    3. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you give death penalty for such cases then they would still rape the girl but then kill her to prevent her from testifying.

    4. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've been half-heartedly following this story once I heard the initial reports and what took place was almost, but not quite, as bad as the Indian student who was attacked, raped and beaten on a bus in India and later died.

      This girl was, apparently, passed out drunk (she was 16) and while passed out, was raped by at least 2 members of the football. Her limp, violated, body was carried by her arms and legs, all while being recorded and while others stood by and did nothing.

      Some people present tweeted what was taking place, some took pictures and one shining example of the human race was recorded for a length of time bragging about how much she was fucked (worse than in the movie Pulp Fiction according to him). No one called the police.

      Further, when asked about how he would feel if his daughter was raped (he apparently at the ripe of a late teenager had a daughter) in 10 years, he pontificated that in ten years his daughter would be raped and dead. What a wonderful guy.

      While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society. There isn't something new in not raping, murdering, shooting, tealing from, beating or otherwise doing something to someone, and people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

      Yeah prove how excellent our society is by killing everyone who does something we don't like. Put them in prison by all means but killing them just proves that you are no better than them.

    5. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Stormwatch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's next, cutting off a thief's hands? Death penalty is not proportional to the crime. Yes, rape is bad, but it's not murder.

    6. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      This girl was, apparently, passed out drunk (she was 16) and while passed out, was raped by at least 2 members of the football. Her limp, violated, body was carried by her arms and legs, all while being recorded and while others stood by and did nothing.

      Do you know how much porn is online from what counts as respectable pornographic film companies doing exactly that? I don't mean staged content; I mean a couple 40 year old guys slip into a college party and fuck a completely drunk, barely awake (if even) college girl.

      Alcohol is considered fair play. I know too many girls who, when I bring up that I don't mess with girls once they've had more than a minor buzz, proceed to carefully explain to me that what they do when they're drunk as fuck is their business and their responsibility--up to and including fucking the hell out of everyone when they're too far gone to remember their own name (or stay conscious).

      People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why.

    7. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Hatta · · Score: 0

      Rape is in no way comparable to murder. Punishing rape with death is disproportionate.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What's next, cutting off a thief's hands? Death penalty is not proportional to the crime. Yes, rape is bad, but it's not murder.

      Obviously, castration would be proportional to this. :-)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would argue that the death penalty *is* proportional to rape and murder.

    10. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that the next big thing in a few years will be "social justice": Anonymous + bitcoin = assassinations.

    11. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, the Death Penalty would be counter-intuitive... it would lead to more dead rape victims.

      If a rapist is going to get the death penalty anyway, a LOT more of them would probably decide to kill the victim so they couldn't turn them in / report it / etc.

      Obviously you have psychos that kill their victims already (before or after) and you have some people that probably still wouldn't kill even if the death penalty was already on the table. But a large percentage would probably decide to do it.

      So, by killing the rapists you wind up killing more of the victims.

      Don't get me wrong: I feel that rapists and the lot deserve a very painful existence followed by an eternity in the lowest pits of Hell. But I also think that as bad as the victims feel... they deserve a chance to actually LIVE afterwards.

    12. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by cusco · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There are two civilizations that I've heard of that were almost crime-free, medieval Japan and the Inca. In both the punishment for almost any crime was death, delivered quickly and with no possibility of appeal. The death penalty can work, just not the way we implement it.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's next, cutting off a thief's hands? Death penalty is not proportional to the crime. Yes, rape is bad, but it's not murder.

      *sigh* You must be new to the internet. Hi. Welcome.

      Because of this, you're clearly not aware of how this sort of argument works around these parts. So, since I'm not in the mood to put up with the inevitable bullshit that'll follow, I'll just escalate it to the end now and swear that the correct punishment for rape should be the complete genocide of the race responsible for it (and let's just toss in the rapist's religion, too, just in case (yes, including atheism and agnosticism, smartass; and if you don't shut your face, we'll drag you unitarians into things as well)), and then I'll feel outraged at you for thinking they deserve anything less.

    14. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been half-heartedly following this story once I heard the initial reports and what took place was almost, but not quite, as bad as the Indian student who was attacked, raped and beaten on a bus in India and later died.

      I think raping someone passed-out without other significant physical harm, which seems to be what you are describing, is a whole lot less heinous than beating up two people for hours so that one of them dies and also raping them. It's still heinous and bad and must be stopped and deserves punishment, but it's a whole lot less heinous than "almost but not quite as bad". Consider this: would you rather have what happened here happen to you 5 times or would you prefer that Indian incident once? You'd prefer this 5 times. Unless your description in terms of "being carried by arms and legs while being recorded" is hyperbole by way of understatement.

    15. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You'll pay more to execute them, fyi.

    16. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you know how much porn is online from what counts as respectable pornographic film companies doing exactly that? I don't mean staged content; I mean a couple 40 year old guys slip into a college party and fuck a completely drunk, barely awake (if even) college girl.

      You probably believe those Dancing Bear videos where a male stripper shows up to a bachelorette party and ends up fucking the bride-to-be and all the bridesmaids aren't staged either.

      No, those bangbus guys don't just pick up random girls on the street and fuck them in the back of a van for cash, either.

      Repeat after me: all porn is fake. Yes, ALL of it.

      Do you have any idea how much pressure is on porn producers to verify and document the legal age of every single performer in their productions? They will get shut down if records are missing or tampered with. All performers are required to submit to regular health and STD checks. Stringent records and contracts are kept.

      Why take a gigantic risk and have your male talent (which is in severely limited supply) rape some random girl on camera, provided they would even agree to do so and not just hand you over to the cops immediately? They would basically be filming their own confession.

      It's fake. All of it. Yes, even that video you just found that looks really authentic. Fake.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    17. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      She hasn't testified yet, has she?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    18. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by epp_b · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sorry, but there are mounds of evidence as to why the death penalty is not a deterrent (ie.: crimes of passion, psychological studies that show humans are *really* bad at thinking ahead and considering consequences ) and as long as there a still a chance of wrongful conviction, I won't stand for mandated state murder. Not to mention killing is morally wrong no matter what the context or circumstances.

      I will happily see my tax dollars spent (and even increased) to incarcerate truly haneous offenders as long as is necessary.

    19. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

      I agree, but then why are you regarding them so much? Why are you spending so much of yourself on hating them? Why not just remove them from society and get on with your life? Why would you let them turn you into a killer? Why let them poison who you are?

      It's like torturing terrorists when you don't get actionable intel; even if they genuinely deserve it, that's not the point. It's about what we subject ourselves to. We choose not to torture because torturing harms us, not because the sonofabitch doesn't deserve it.

      We choose not to kill because killing is a nasty business, and is not necessary to achieve the goal of minimizing the rapist's ability to effect our world. Rather, it increases his effect on who we are. He does not deserve that power.

    20. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by corbettw · · Score: 1

      I understand the emotional aspect of wanting the death penalty for rape; I'm a father and husband, and if someone treated either of my girls or my wife the way these guys did, I might have to stand for murder, myself.

      But the cold hard truth is that, if you make the punishment for rape the same as murder, there is literally no reason not to murder the rape victim once you're done. If you're gonna fry either way, might as well not leave any witnesses.

      So no, we can't have the death penalty for rape. Not if we don't want something even worse to happen to our loved ones/selves.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    21. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Comen · · Score: 1

      There are many reasons for a death penalty though, many times people that might have cared deeply for the deceased might not themselves outlive the person that did the crime, so this way they know that justice is served and the person is dead beyond the point of getting let out of prison. Also while many think only of themselves when they as jurors have to decide if a person lives of dies, I personally would take it as a slap to the face to a parent whose daughter was raped and killed if you told them you did not want to be responsible for putting someone who killed their daughter to death for instance. If I was the father of a girl that was raped and killed I would personally want to see them dead not in jail, just in case I was to die unexpectedly and not able to be sure they died in jail.

    22. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      NOTE: by "they deserve a chance" I mean "the VICTIMS deserve a chance"

      My post is all about the victims.

    23. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, let's all rape them! FUCK YEAH!!!!

    24. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They do, however, have girls sign consent forms, then genuinely coerce them into doing stuff they didn't want to.

      That is, the girl makes it clear when she takes the job that there's no anal, nothing rough, no bondage - then one by one, her agent, the director, the male co-star, etc. - browbeat her (verbally) into submission. It wouldn't surprise me at all if girls were given alcohol to expedite the process.

      For example, recently a documentary aired on British TV (sorry, can't remember the name) in which exactly this was happening, until the documentary film crew felt they had to intervene, rather than be accessories to rape.

    25. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by SleazyRidr · · Score: 2

      It's not about punishing people. These are people who hold absolutely no value to society, and allowing them to keep living is just a waste of perfectly good oxygen.

    26. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Bigby · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No. There is no good argument equating murder to rape. I would rather be raped 100 times before murdered. If you equate the two, then you don't have any respect for life.

      In no way am I saying rape isn't bad. If rape leads to death, then it is worse than murder. Although, it depends on the method of murder. Burning alive would be much worse.

    27. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand why it costs so much. A few shots in the head until the scum is dead won't cost much at all.

    28. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by slim · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know too many girls who, when I bring up that I don't mess with girls once they've had more than a minor buzz, proceed to carefully explain to me that what they do when they're drunk as fuck is their business and their responsibility--up to and including fucking the hell out of everyone when they're too far gone to remember their own name (or stay conscious).

      People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why.

      Well, (assuming you're male, heterosexual, available, and not opposed to casual sex in general), let's turn it around. If someone tells you, hey, if you're 8-pint drunk, you're not allowed to consent to sex, what would you say? I'd say, to hell with that! Why should it be any different for girls?

      If you're not conscious, you can't consent; you can't even imply consent. So that's rape, no question. I doubt the girls you're talking about were defending their right to be shagged while unconscious.

      You can be very drunk indeed, still know what you want and what you don't, and still say no.

    29. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inca and medieval Japan crime free? I doubt it.

      Unless you don't consider acts of atrocities crimes.

    30. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      These are also the people who get sued massively for breach of contract and become pariahs in the business.

      Filthy scumbags exist everywhere, they're not unique to porn and they certainly don't work for the well-respected companies, with a handful of few high-profile exceptions. In a business like porn, reputation is everything. If people hear bad shit about a producer or his productions, they'll stay far away from him. It's in his own self-interest to behave nicely or his career will be extremely short.

      Contrary to popular belief, it really is the women who run the show in mainstream porn, and even more so in fetish porn. Low-budget porn is a different kettle of fish altogether, and that's where you tend to find the scumbags.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    31. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems you've just glossed over all the reasons that people oppose the death penalty to begin with. In your quest for vengeance, you'd have innocents killed to get your way.

    32. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mamby-pamby soft-on crime limp-wristed bastard!

      The correct punishment for jaywalking should be to completely eradicate all life from the solar system. If we merely eradicate life from Earth, astronauts will get away from their dastardly crimes scot-free.

    33. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard cusco killed a dude, kill him swiftly, it will not deter people reporting crimes or anything thus artificially lowering the crime rate. Much less kill oodles of innocents. Hell, stake him, I hear Vlad too didn't have any crime (reporting) problems.

    34. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Repeat after me: all porn is fake. Yes, ALL of it.

      I personally know people who run porn sites that amount to they and a few of their friends hooking up with girls from their college. Hell, there was an article on Fark because someone called the police on a bunch of kids from a frat that bought a house together and had live cameras streaming them screwing girls they knew--the police determined nothing illegal was happening and left.

      It's not all fake. There are a few sites out there that collect up peoples' personal inventories and post them online. Guy that lives 3 miles from me is screwing his daughter's 19 year old friend, he shares the videos with anyone who happens to broach the topic in any way. Could take that and post it online somewhere... could find plenty of folks like that and post all their shit online... make a mint. Hint: It's been done.

      Next thing you'll tell me is child porn is fake.

    35. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally different from any other job of course where no one ever pressures you into anything.

    36. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society.

      This is why reputation systems are going to be an important advance for society. Every potential employer for the rest of this guy's life should get to see the video of him talking about how "she's so raped". That's a much more powerful disincentive than a death penalty, and far more ethical as well.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    37. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why.

      I think... it's a rather difficult problem. I think there are pretty clearly cases where someone who is drunk/high and "coerced" into sex (meaning convinced to do something they wouldn't while sober) should be considered to have been raped. But there are also cases where it probably shouldn't, and it leads to some bizarre situations at least hypothetically.

      What if both people are wasted? Are they raping each other?

      Could that be a successful "defense" against rape in the wasted situation? Get smashed yourself, and threaten to press your own charges?

      If they went ahead and charged you but not the other person in such a situation, could you get your conviction tossed for selective prosecution?

      IANAL so I don't know what the answers are... but I do think that there is way more grey in this area than black and white.

    38. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      ....Some people present tweeted what was taking place, some took pictures and one shining example of the human race was recorded for a length of time bragging about how much she was fucked (worse than in the movie Pulp Fiction according to him). .

      Apparently the high-school kid who "was recorded for a length of time bragging about how much she was fucked" wasn't there:
      http://www.wtov9.com/news/news/sheriff-anonymous-hacker-im-coming-after-you/nTnNX/ :

      "One guy called asking why is (the person in the video) not arrested," said [Sheriff] Abdalla. "He wasn't even in the same place where the incident occurred. He made this video based on what people were telling him about (the alleged incident). This was no criminal act. I said it the other day: You can't arrest somebody for being stupid. It was disgusting and nauseating. But you can't arrest him for that."

      I'm not sure that your advocacy of "the death penalty" is appropriate here.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    39. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society. There isn't something new in not raping, murdering, shooting, tealing from, beating or otherwise doing something to someone, and people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

      I've always thought that the most appropriate penalty for a 100%, beyond-a-doubt conviction of rape should be castration, and not this namby-pamby chemical castration either, simply chop off their balls. With or without anesthetic, depending on the circumstances of the crime.

      Not only does that prevent them from further propagating their potentially defective DNA to the next generation (placing nature vs nurture arguments aside), it also provides a lifelong reminder of the consequences of their crime every time they take a piss or have a shower.

      If they don't know how and when to properly use their toys, take them away for good. Second offense (it is medically possible, apparently) = penectomy.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    40. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      I would honestly rather not pay to keep these scumbags alive.

      If your complaint is about the money, then it is definitely cheaper to keep them alive then to pay for the appeal process of a death penalty. Actual incarceration isn't terribly expensive. Besides, in prison, they are much more likely to get a taste of what they did to the poor girl. Prison populations are notoriously hard on rapists and child abusers.

    41. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go see the documentary on insex or whatever the other sites he ran were - it's pretty obvious that while everything is legal, he was finding troubled girls (often addicts) and paying them more than they could make elsewhere - plenty of them said they felt they had no other choice.

      Now, they did - but that doesn't mean they were used.
      They may not want to do something - but, 20 minutes in, is it worth blowing the whole scene and not getting paid just to use your safeword?
      To a lot of them, sometimes not.

      There's one part where it's mentioned that if you stay on the property - so that you can be custom fitted for outfits/restraints/etc, as well as to fuck him - there's extra pay. (Not for the sex, of course - for the custom designed gear, enabling better shoots. But - have the sex too)

    42. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by mellon · · Score: 1

      Right, the scum who self-evidently need to be shot are very cheap to kill. The problem is that there aren't any of those. What there are are defendants. Defendants may or may not have committed the crime. Evidence has to be presented. The jury has to be convinced. Then there is an appeals process, because a lot of death penalty cases are actually prosecuted against people who aren't guilty, and there are often errors at trial, and it would be wrong to kill an innocent person ("it is better [one hundred] guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer").

      Keeping someone incarcerated until they die of natural causes is a lot cheaper than prosecuting a long appeals process. And it means that when it later turns out that someone else did the crime, you don't have a dead innocent on your conscience.

    43. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by nautsch · · Score: 1

      Yeah prove how excellent our society is by killing everyone who does something we don't like. Put them in prison by all means but killing them just proves that you are no better than them.

      I am undecided on the death sentence, but I think theres a huge difference between "something we don't like" and rape. Noone should be killed for stealing a Mars bar, but for rape or murder ... not really sure.

      --
      If you find a typo, you may keep it.
    44. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Granted, it was just a brief google search, but it's roughly $0.21 for a 9mm bullet, if not cheaper when purchased en masse. The 'cost' you refer to is not in the execution itself, but in jumping through all the legal loops holes AND keeping the captive alive throughout said process. I'd have to agree with GP/cusco on this one.

    45. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society. There isn't something new in not raping, murdering, shooting, tealing from, beating or otherwise doing something to someone, and people such as this who have no regard for others do not deserve any sympathy or regard from the rest of society.

      Neither prison nor the death penalty seems to be working as a deterrent. I say we strip them of their assets and force them to work for and live on minimum wage for a set number of years.

    46. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by nautsch · · Score: 2

      In no way am I saying rape isn't bad. If rape leads to death, then it is worse than murder. Although, it depends on the method of murder. Burning alive would be much worse.

      So death by fire: what? 10 minutes? probably much less, due to suffocation; Death by rape: probably hours or days of pure torture.

      --
      If you find a typo, you may keep it.
    47. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No death penalty would be good enough, one night of taking what they want to fulfill their sexual desires would be best served by removing their ability to ever enjoy sex again.
      * Remove the necessary parts such that desire still exists and will never be capable of being fulfilled.
      * There should be no ability to medically replace what was removed and there should be no government tax breaks or help to those who commit such crimes.
      * The rapist should reap what they sow 100x's over.

    48. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by misterooga · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd have thought it's the other way around.

      If you are murdered, that's it. After rape, you have to live with not only the physical AND mental trauma, but also the society's finger pointing that says "yeah she is victim but she probably deserved it."

      No one deserves it.

      And what would she do if she got pregnant by the rapists? She will need to go through another nightmare deciding what to do.

      I honestly think death sentence is too lenient in this case. Burning isn't good either; it will end too soon.

    49. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well at least wrestling is real, and Santa Clause and the Easter bunny.

    50. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure. I'd rather see scum like these rot in prison, preferably solitary, for life, than get off easy with the death penalty.

    51. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      castration wouldn't be disproportionate, and would ensure no repeat offenders.

    52. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The only reason it's more expensive than life in prison is because assholes like you get your feelings hurt.

      No it isn't. Even if the death penalty is a good idea (I'm not offering an opinion on that here), summary execution is not. You're ending someone's life here, and you can never undo that if it turns out to have been a mistake, so you'd damn well better take the time and effort to make sure you didn't fuck things up when you convicted the guy. That means appeals, it means possible retrials, it means delay after delay over technicalities, it means lots of expense for the taxpayers, and that is how it fucking well ought to be. It should NEVER be easy or cheap for the state to kill a citizen, no matter how big a scumbag he's alleged to be. That's a road that never leads anywhere good.

      There is not, and never can be, a "quick, simple, cheap solution to this problem".

    53. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't want o ask for links/evidence per se, since if true, that's seriously fucked up. but... that said, i find it hard to believe that if there are such videos (from big-name companies, at least in the US), that they are not, in fact, staged.

    54. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You obviously have no conception of what rape is or does to people. Be thankful. But stop talking about shit you know nothing about.

    55. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by spire3661 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Be careful who you dehumanize, for we may decide next it is you who is not human.

      --
      Good-bye
    56. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They still have communal shows and bars of soap in jail, right?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    57. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, we should tell people that some things are morally reprehensible. And then do them ourselves.

    58. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by jheath314 · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points... well said!

      --
      Procrastination Man strikes again!
    59. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      An eternity of torture is a lesser punishment than death? I thought the whole point of hell was that it is worse than death, because people apparently thought that death itself wasn't enough of a deterrent so had to make up something even worse.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    60. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the only thing proportional would be to have the rapers raped. This "eye for an eye" shit is pure barbarism.

    61. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Medieval Japan was also full of injustice, innocent people being essentially murdered by the ruling class. In fact you could add modern day North Korea to the list, where there is very little petty crime but again massive abuse by those in authority.

      The reality is there are plenty of modern democratic societies with very low crime rates in Europe, and even modern Japan is almost devoid of petty crime. Those people don't refrain from committing crime because of fear of punishment, they refrain because they have a stake in society and a realistic prospect of living a life beyond poverty and hopelessness.

      A pleasant society that treats people well with prospects for all or brutal dictatorship, take your pick.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    62. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by emho24 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would rather be raped 100 times before murdered.

      Says the man that has never been raped.

      If you equate the two, then you don't have any respect for life.

      I don't have respect for the life of a rapist. Rape is murder of the soul.

      --
      You must gather your party before venturing forth.
    63. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow what an absolutely stupid thing to say. "I would rather be raped 100 times before murdered". I don't think you understand the severity of the damage that has been done to this person. The penalty should be extremely severe, and truly the penalty is death. Perhaps our corrupted human courts will not carry out the judgement, but it will be carried out.

    64. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without that process, you'd kill many people who are falsely accused. Indeed, probably even more than are falsely accused now, because some people would surely misuse that as method of indirect murder, given that it would be a quite reliable method to get someone killed.

      Execution without due process is murder, plain and simple. Even if the executed one happens to be guilty. Just like if one gangster kills another gangster, he'll be found guilty of murder even if that other gangster had killed others before.

    65. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by casings · · Score: 1

      You obviously have no right to comment on this. Talk to an actual victim of rape sometime, or get raped yourself.

    66. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damnit, now I'm horny.

    67. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      Well, the "only" problem you have with that idea, is miscarriage of justice.

      Not only have you now killed an innocent person, but because no one looks into solved crimes (unless it's something like serial murders), you're also letting the actual criminal off the hook forever.

      If, instead, you allow appeals, you have a chance to overturn the conviction, and the case is reopened.

      But here's one to ponder.

      Suppose John Doe is convicted and executed for raping and murdering a child. Before his arrest, John Doe was married and a father of three and he had a high paying job, say 250,000 dollars a year, his wife being a stay at home mother.

      As a result of his arrest and conviction, the wife and kids had to move out of the house, as she not only didn't have a job, didn't have qualifications to get a job that could pay for it, but all the neighbours hated her and the kids, because "obviously she knew he was weird".

      Five years after his execution (say 15 - 20 years after his conviction), it is proven in court that someone else committed the rape and murder.

      In the case of someone who wasn't executed, you can go in and pay them restitutions for their pain and suffering, but what do you do now? Do you charge the police and justice system with negligent homicide?

      And just how do you plan to go about saying "I'm sorry for killing your father, painting him as a paedophile rapist and murderer and getting you and your family outcast from society at large"?

    68. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by casings · · Score: 1

      That is your opinion, and a shitty one at that.

    69. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by casings · · Score: 1

      Not to mention killing is morally wrong no matter what the context or circumstances.

      You do realize that morality is something made up in your head right? It does not exist in the real world, because everyone's morality is different. You make a very intelligent argument followed by the one of the dumbest statements you could make. Congratulations, slashdot, I think I quit you.

    70. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Umm, read my post again?

      I said a painful existence, followed by Hell after they eventually die however (old age, stabbed by inmates, cancer, whatever). That is, assuming you believe in hell... because you tend to die first before going there.

      And of course, that ignores the root thesis of my statement: that the death penalty for rapists would mean a lot more dead rape victims too.

    71. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by SirGarlon · · Score: 3, Funny

      Rape would be proportional to this. You get to be Bubba's bitch. Which from what I have been led to believe (thankfully not by direct experience) comes as a free bonus with pretty much any prison sentence.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    72. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Bigby · · Score: 0

      You are going to tell me that you would rather die than live? I would rather live without arms and legs than die. I would rather be in Guantanamo undergoing the worst than die.

      I know all to well what rape does to people. Do you AC?

    73. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      "Deterrence" is but one of the reasons we punish crimes. There is this idea of "desert" (as in "deserved"), as well; if we got of that idea, there would be no reason for any restraint whatsoever for even the most minor crime: the death penalty would be an excellent deterrent for shoplifting.

    74. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Not if we don't want something even worse to happen to our loved ones/selves.

      That you consider that there could be something worse than rape (ie, death) is a strong argument for why the death penalty is inappropriate and disproportionate for rape.

    75. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Bigby · · Score: 1

      You are all making assumptions of my life. I guarantee none of you have been murdered though; let alone burned at the stake.

      My position isn't that rape is not all that bad. It is about the value of life. I am arguing that no life at all is worse than a terrible life.

      Since we are all want to argue moral ranking, where do you place slavery? Since none of us have been enslaved, raped, and murdered we are all going to have to use some level of judgement here. How about when someone does something that makes us both blind and deaf? Let's all play judge and executioner.

    76. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      You're muddying the waters by bringing up that other case. I fail to see how the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for some stupid teenager that "slipped a finger" in some passed out chick at a pretty debauched party. It's a stupid thing to do, and a pretty bad violation. But a) she won't remember any of it, and the psychological trauma of rape is a big part of why it's so bad in the first place. And b) it's not like they shoved a baseball bat or a turkey baster full of sperm up there; she's not physically damaged or at risk of being pregnant, the other two factors that make rape so heinous.

      I've got a buddy who's on the sex offenders list because his girlfriend who was two years younger than him had parents that didn't like him. And in Midland it's pretty easy to have somebody found guilty by virtue of being Mexican. So yeah. Let's kill everybody found guilty of rape, because we know how infallible our justice system is. Who needs the Eighth Amendment anyway? While we're at it let's throw out the sixth, too. Since we all know anybody charged with rape is obviously guilty.

    77. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There used to be a death penalty for rape. It was found unconstitutional in the 60's. Later the death penalty itself was found unconstitutional. When it was brought back they weren't able to bring it back for rape.

    78. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But... the Federal Government is far too busy with stupid shit like drug use to give a damn about murder and rape.

    79. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      That is your opinion, and a shitty one at that.

      Your shitty opinion. As if you or anyone else you know wouldn't rather be raped - multiple times even - than murdered.

    80. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Stormwatch · · Score: 0

      Do you have to get murdered to know murder is bad?

    81. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Uberbah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You obviously have no right to comment on this. Talk to an actual victim of rape sometime, or get raped yourself.

      You're obviously a raging asshole and a demagogue. First, victims of crimes do not set the level of punishment for their victimizers for obvious reasons. Secondly, you're also a raging moron if you think rape is as bad as death - go talk to any parent who's child has been raped AND murdered and see if they'd rather have a rape survivor if you want to play that card.

      Third, talk to the Duke Lacrosse men and the Central Park five about how they should have all been executed. Before they were found to be innocent.

    82. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Says the man that has never been raped.

      Says the demagogue who's never talked to any dead people who've said they're happier being dead than being a rape survivor.

    83. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alcohol is considered fair play.

      Except in a court of lawl.

      I salute you, sir, and urge you to keep doing what you do: that is, not bumping uglies with completely wasted chicks. Because sooner or later, someone gets hurt, and that someone usually isn't the drunk chick who initiated the ugly bumpin'.

    84. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by box4831 · · Score: 1

      I say we strip them of their assets and force them to work for and live on minimum wage for a set number of years.

      For the crime of rape I sentence you to life as a liberal arts graduate! *DUN DUN DUN*

      --
      Miller Lite tastes like water that's somehow managed to rot.
    85. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Alcohol is considered fair play. I know too many girls who, when I bring up that I don't mess with girls once they've had more than a minor buzz, proceed to carefully explain to me that what they do when they're drunk as fuck is their business and their responsibility--up to and including fucking the hell out of everyone when they're too far gone to remember their own name (or stay conscious).

      People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why.

      Because you are venturing into a realm of common sense that most people are oblivious to.

      I had a girl get pissed off at me at a bar because I refused to hit on her in her sloppy-drunken state. (We had a conversation going, until she went from "normal-possibly-interesting person to douche-baguette in under 2 drinks.) If I wouldn't even want be friends with someone that gets obnoxiously wasted to that level, i certainly wouldn't want to be romantic with such a person. I ended up spending half of the evening trying to keep her from falling down on top of the musicians that were playing. (which were friends of mine)

      Now, I am not saying there is a not hotness level a woman could achieve to override my gag reflex of douchyness; but falling down drunkenness is seriously unattractive.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    86. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      The discussion was about actual relatively well-known porn companies and whether they did actual rape porn. They don't, and it would be monumentally stupid of them if they ever did. The porn business is all about selling you a fantasy, they'll fake anything to sell their products. Everything they do is faked.

      HOWEVER, there are plenty of lowlife scumbags who run their own little amateurish porn sites where they have sex with more or less willing girls on camera, with little regard to legal requirements etc. as well as plenty of sites where peoples' amateur porn is posted indiscriminately. Those aren't in the established porn business as such, though. And most of them are a phone call or email away from being shut down for non-compliance, at least if they're hosted in the US or EU.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    87. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, rape is clearly worse than being murdered. That's why I support a comprehensive program to systematically exterminate everyone who has ever been raped, and support install "rape report booths" in police departments across the country, where future victims can have their testimony filmed and then be painlessly gassed. ... Oh wait, no, that's fucking sick. Being raped isn't as bad as being dead, there's no recovery from dead.

    88. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Rape is murder of the soul.

      Vacuous nonsense. There's no such thing as a soul, and even if there was, the mythology doesn't include the possibility of murdering it.

      What is it with these capital punishment enthusiasts? Why does believing in illogical mythical nonsense make it more likely they want to see criminals being killed?

      Rape is horrible, and people often suffer from mental repercussions. But it's not murder, in any form. The death penalty would be an escalation, not an "eye for an eye".

    89. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but there are mounds of evidence as to why the death penalty is not a deterrent (ie.: crimes of passion, psychological studies that show humans are *really* bad at thinking ahead and considering consequences ) and as long as there a still a chance of wrongful conviction, I won't stand for mandated state murder. Not to mention killing is morally wrong no matter what the context or circumstances.

      I will happily see my tax dollars spent (and even increased) to incarcerate truly haneous offenders as long as is necessary.

      Paraphrasing Terry Pratchett: "Well, I don't know if it's deterrent in the generality of things, seeing as how it's hard to find evidence of crimes not committed... but in the specificality of it, I've never seen up here [at the gallows] twice."

    90. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by PraiseBob · · Score: 1

      Women are allowed to enjoy both drinking and sex. Do you think guys should be allowed to give consent if they have had a few beers? Some men & women like to drink because its gives them the courage to pursue romance and act a little more crazy than usual. Thats the exact reason why some people drink.

      proceed to carefully explain to me that what they do when they're drunk as fuck is their business and their responsibility--up to and including fucking the hell out of everyone when they're too far gone to remember their own name

      I'm not sure if you have something against women or against alcohol, but theres a huge area between stone cold sober, and turning into some kind of coma-slut.

      People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why.

      You are saying there is no difference between someone drunkenly saying yes, drunkenly saying no, and being unconscious and passed out? So if my wife gets drunk and has sex with some guy she meets in a bar, I should forgive her because it was really rape all along?

    91. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since none of us have been enslaved, raped, and murdered

      Well let's start by saying this sentence is wrong. I'm not dead nor a slave, infer what you must.

      I also have problem with intimacy and physical contact. I have tried ending my life, more than once. And sometimes? I really wish I was dead instead.

    92. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by hey! · · Score: 1

      It's not the severity of punishment that matters the most, it's the *certainty*.

      Pickpockets used to work the crowds gathered to watch executions of thieves. Making punishment more severe doesn't work as deterrence if the perpetrators won't get punished, and making it *unreasonably* or shockingly harsh would actually make people reluctant to cooperate in catching and prosecuting wrongdoers.

      What you need to do is raise the chance that a criminal will be caught and punished. When you see a cop car by the side of the road or hear your radar detector going off, that has a much more powerful effect on your behavior than a sign saying speeding fines are doubled, because it feels normal to speed and not get caught. If it felt *abnormal* to get away with speeding, you wouldn't.

      Preventing and punishing crime are effective, but hard to do and therefore expensive. Declaring a harsh mandatory sentence for a crime is easy and cheap to do, but has almost no effect.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    93. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Kittenman · · Score: 1

      There are two civilizations that I've heard of that were almost crime-free, medieval Japan and the Inca. In both the punishment for almost any crime was death, delivered quickly and with no possibility of appeal. The death penalty can work, just not the way we implement it.

      Nonsense. "It is not the severity of crime that deters punishment, but the certainty of it". Sir Robert Peel.

      Peel started the British police force (hences "Bobbies", "Rozzers" and even "Peelers"). He knew what he was talking about.

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    94. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      I would honestly rather not pay to keep these scumbags alive.

      You'd pay a lot more to have the government try to kill them.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    95. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by oursland · · Score: 4, Insightful

      BTW...there's a big difference between what happened in India which was violent and evil with the intent to harm/kill which went far beyond rape vs the kind of rape that involves having sex with a passed out girl.

      What we have here is a kinder, gentler rape.

    96. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Already posted in this discussion, so I'll just add: a thousand times *this*

      --
      +1 Disagree
    97. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by cusco · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Many rapists are premature ejaculators, and use some instrument to do their rape. A castrated rapist will just use a broomstick, baseball bat, whatever their perversion leads. Rape is not sex, it's violence.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    98. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Bremic · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure castration is cheap though.

    99. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between the figurative ass-rape of your boss demanding that you work an extra shift vs the literal ass-rape of, well, ass-rape.

    100. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by cusco · · Score: 1

      the death penalty is not a deterrent

      Not so much a deterrent, as a preventative. Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders. It would have the effect of removing that segment of the population who are genetically pre-disposed to have impulse control problems from the gene pool, and prevent them from committing more crimes. Unfortunately it also removes other people who have just had an unbearably bad day, or who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    101. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by 32771 · · Score: 1

      "Alcohol is considered fair play. ...
      People just don't see this as wrong. I don't know why. "

      Some while ago I read some discussion on the topic:

      http://www.sexuality.org/latrans.html

      So it states that some BDSM people believe in this safe sane consentual and sober mantra, instead of just SSC, and the speaker in the transcript doesn't like the sober aspect at all.

      On the whole I would never expect people with the maturity of freshmen to read the above website and follow SSCS on top of it even. The BDSM scene just has some more rigorous standards I guess because of the greater dangers involved. I heard once that people should attend a course or have some other kind of guidance, i.e. if they want to engage in anything bondage related to prevent nerve damage - who would have thought.

      I never tried sex and alcohol, but I'm an introverted geek. Also I'm surprised about what passes off as majority culture and what exists at the fringe, in terms of mutual respect.

      --
      Je me souviens.
    102. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give at rest, cant you just go suck yourself off somewhere and leave us alone?

    103. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

      You can get over rape (many people do).

      We have no corroborated case of someone getting over dead.

      Rape is worse than GBH, better than death.

    104. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know guys who would take an issue with proceeding with sexual contact when he's drunk. I think there's a very strong societal thing that guy = implied consent, woman = no consent (I could be wrong though).

      That said, consent must be explicit. Some people do take advantage of people who they know won't ever explicitly say no (implied consent doesn't work like that). Especially if they are in a dissociative state etc. This is a (surprisingly) common occurrence leading to re-victimisation because the offender knows the other person won't do anything about it.

      Interestingly (and not something I've really read much about), but what happens if a rape victim commits suicide? Are there legal repercussions against the perpetrator(s)?

    105. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I chewed off an arm once. I did not consent to fuck that!

    106. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      the death penalty is not a deterrent Not so much a deterrent, as a preventative. Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders. It would have the effect of removing that segment of the population who are genetically pre-disposed to have impulse control problems from the gene pool, and prevent them from committing more crimes. Unfortunately it also removes other people who have just had an unbearably bad day, or who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

      How would these goals not be served by having them in prison until the day they die? With the added benefit that if we in fact find out the verdict was wrong we can release them.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    107. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but there are mounds of evidence as to why the death penalty is not a deterrent (ie.: crimes of passion, psychological studies that show humans are *really* bad at thinking ahead and considering consequences ) and as long as there a still a chance of wrongful conviction, I won't stand for mandated state murder. Not to mention killing is morally wrong no matter what the context or circumstances.

      I will happily see my tax dollars spent (and even increased) to incarcerate truly haneous offenders as long as is necessary.

      I agree with your comment except for the highlighted part. How is it wrong to kill someone to stop them from killing someone else when no other options exist? This is not a hypothetical question, the circumstance arises regularly. Are you saying a SWAT team member is engaging in a wrong act because they kill a criminal before he shoots someone else? How many people does this criminal need to be threatening before you would rather the criminal be shot first?

      While it may not be something you're willing to do, I suspect that even in your world view there are circumstances where it is preferable, even if it's not desired.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    108. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by NickDB · · Score: 0

      In someways rape is worse than murder. With murder the people left behind suffer, with rape the people left behind suffer and that includes the victim.

    109. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by NickDB · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but I find your position contemptible. QUALITY of life is what is important, not JUST life. I've gone through the harrowing experience of seeing loved ones die from cancer, and if I could I would of helped them when they asked me to end it. Yes I've had a few people, my own grandfather, a bloke who survived Nazi POW camps ask me and his daughter ( my mum) to kill him. A terrible life is FAR worse than no life. When you're dead there are 3 options depending on what you believe; Go to hell - That's because of something you've done to deserve going there. Nothing - absolutely final oblivion Go to Heaven, - live in paradise with no suffering what so ever. So you're saying nothing and nirvana are worse than living a life of pain and misery?

    110. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So...... by your logic, if being killed is better than being raped, it would be kinder to euthanize all rape victims to spare them the trauma?

      I don't want to downplay the horror of being raped, but murder is definitely the worse crime. You have zero chance of recovering from being murdered. Not true of rape.

      FWIW I do not support the death penalty under any circumstances. I believe in treating sentenced criminals with respect and dignity and working towards rehabilitation. Most criminals are simply broken people that can be fixed with the right approach. However if anything was going to change my mind on this issue it would the kind of irredeemably evil shits described in TFA.

    111. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What we have here is a kinder, gentler rape."

      Can the womans body tell the difference, and still shut down any resulting pregnancy?

      Where oh where is a Republican I can ask about this?

    112. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      Bangbus is/was real. A girl I went to highschool with did a bangbus video for $500 while in florida for a family vacation. The whole town found out and her parents practically disowned her

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    113. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By that reasoning, if I break your leg and make you limp, that's worse than if I kill you.

    114. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by schlachter · · Score: 1

      exactly.
      One involves murder and torture.
      The other involves non-consenting sex.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    115. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by renojiin · · Score: 1

      What happens when the rapist is a woman? It may not happen often, but it happens.

    116. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone involved in the BDSM scene I can tell you that "Safe, Sane and Consensual" is the order of the day with any rational players. Sane in this context includes sober (whether it be drugs or alcohol) because impaired judgement can mean you can't give real consent or even worse someone may not be able to withdraw consent if things get past their safety zone.

      One of the biggest risks in play is sub-drop - where a bottom gets so high on endorphins that they space out and are no longer capable of giving their safe word. Tops will generally only play with people who space out if they know them well and and intimately familiar with their limits.

      Of course you get douches in this scene as much as anywhere else, at an event with other people present, there will usually be specific people who are responsible for keeping an eye out for unsafe play. Events run for newbies will make sure they tell people to be careful about playing with strangers in private and to ensure they have safety calls pre-arranged.

      Most people I know in the scene that I respect won't play if they've been drinking enough that it would be illegal for them to drive (0.05BAC where I am). It makes it difficult for us to get venues for public events because most of them expect to make most of their money from bar sales, we normally have to pay higher venue hire costs as a result. Generally people will start drinking later in the evening AFTER they've done their scene.

      Of course there are exceptions to the rule. It's not uncommon to see someone get trashed then go around bugging people to do a scene with them - usually people they don't know. These people are accidents waiting to happen.

    117. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, those bangbus guys don't just pick up random girls on the street and fuck them in the back of a van for cash, either.

      Repeat after me: all porn is fake. Yes, ALL of it.

      YOU sir are an idiot! You are also the type of person who tells children that Santa Clause is not real.

      I haven't felt this disillusioned since I was told that professional wrestling isn't real. Now I only have reality TV to make me happy.

    118. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by TranquilVoid · · Score: 1

      Isn't castration ususally done chemically, and removes the sex drive? My understanding is that this actually does remove/lower the motivation to rape. This renders "rape is violence" a little too simplistic. It is likely to be a combination of unsatisifed desire in various forms; emotional, social, romantic and indeed sexual.

      Often it is said to be about power but similarly that seems to me to be frustration at the powerlessness that comes from lacking sex and the human connections it requires.

    119. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      No, the only thing proportional would be to have the rapers raped.

      This "eye for an eye" shit is pure barbarism.

      Yes, but it works.

      As rape really isn't much of a sex crime (it's rarely about sex; it's mostly about power, domination and hatred of women) the proper punishment would be to submit the rapist to over-the-top domination, beatings and of course rape. Break him completely down and crush this ego permanently. Only that way can we be reasonably sure he won't re-offend.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    120. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      ... Death by rape: probably hours or days of pure torture.

      Ahh... Vlad The Impaler... He punished all crimes by impaling the offenders on long stick through their rectum and then posted the sticks near his castle. People were alive and conscious for up to several days on the sticks before dying from internal bleeding. Moving about would either increase the bleeding thus shortening the ordeal or just make things even more painful. Removing people from the sticks would only result in a quicker death as they would bleed out faster. It is highly unlikely that anyone at the time would have been able to stop the bleeding and fix the perforated intestines so death was always a certainty; it was only a matter of how much pain before death.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    121. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      And you heard this from your mother's uncle's girlfriend's hairdresser, right?

      It's fake fake fake. Think of the massive risk of STDs and AIDS and the legal ramifications of effectively engaging in prostitution in areas where it's highly illegal, not to mention filming the evidence themselves.

      And just watch the videos. The acting is hilariously bad.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    122. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by cusco · · Score: 1

      Many rapists are married or have girlfriends that give them sex, most have enough money they could afford a prostitute. They don't want sex with someone who is agreeable, they want to take it against the other person's will.

      Chemical castration works apparently, at least as long as the offender agrees to keep up the regimen, but I think most posters were thinking about physical.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    123. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      What happens when the rapist is a woman?

      It may not happen often, but it happens.

      Female circumcision. Yes, it's barbaric, but no less so than the crime of rape.

      To be clear, I meant that these extreme punishments should be applied for extreme cases: violent rape, rape where the victim is incapacitated in any way (drunk, drugged, etc.), repeat offenders and pedophiles. IMO jail time would still be appropriate for 'consensual' statutory rape cases (i.e., an adult seduces an underage teen or vice-versa, or an adult sleeps with a teen without knowing they are underage) unless it's a repeat offense.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    124. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i saw her video, bro, it was definitely her and her family was definitely pissed.

      how is bangbus/bangbros any different than regular porn as far as the line between prostitution and porn? the pro actors and the amature pickups are both paid by the company for their work, they sign model releases and shit. the scenarios are fake and staged but they do use amature models, either that or she was hiding a hell of a lot more prior to getting outed than anyone knew, but my buddy was a giant porn hound he would have known about it if she had more pornos floating around.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    125. Re:And still no death penalty for rape by 32771 · · Score: 1

      This is good information, thanks much. I was hoping I could tickle someone into telling me more than the linked article.

      --
      Je me souviens.
  4. The really disturbing part by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The really disturbing part is not just the fact that a 17-year-old was gang-raped, and no charges have been filed. No, the really really disturbing part was that a significant portion of the population of the town have actively opposed doing anything about it.

    I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:The really disturbing part by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

      I forget; Which box is listed after "jury" in that famous quote about defending liberty?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:The really disturbing part by alen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but these were jocks, football players

      they are more equal than others

    3. Re:The really disturbing part by Kinthelt · · Score: 4, Informative

      The NYT article clearly states that two football players were arrested 11 days later, and are being held under house arrest until their trial.

      --

      "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

    4. Re:The really disturbing part by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      In Western Pennsylvania, football trumps justice. See the Penn State / Sandusky case for another example.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:The really disturbing part by John+Napkintosh · · Score: 2

      It's not really disturbing. This is common in small-town America. The parents might be successful members of the community, they might know local government figures who can quietly plead with the small police force to investigate selectively. The mayor's son and the police chief's son might be on the same team. They might be all banding together to protect their kids from a lifelong fate that resulted from a terrible thing they did when they were a bunch of stupid kids.

      Note that I'm not condoning this AT ALL. It's totally believable, though.

      --

      Long signatures suck.
    6. Re:The really disturbing part by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is being able to run fast and throw/catch a ball accurately considered something that elevates these people above everyone else?

      Why can't people be elevated for doing things that actually contribute to society?

      Our priorities as a culture are SERIOUSLY fucked up.

    7. Re:The really disturbing part by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      Remember the duke lacrosse issue? I wonder why that case was so high profile, eventhough the accuser was shown to be lying and this is the first time i am hearing about this

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    8. Re:The really disturbing part by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      This is southeastern Ohio, not western PA. But yes, I'm not terribly surprised - I actually know a few people from the town in question, and it's a real dump.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    9. Re:The really disturbing part by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In the Duke case, the DA was pandering to constituents who wanted action(it was a serious town/gown thing, and students don't do much voting in local politics). In this case, the relevant authorities are pandering to constituents who want inaction to protect their precious football heroes.

      Different incentives; but both good examples of the fact that criminal investigations can be...modified...by the desires of local stakeholders.

    10. Re:The really disturbing part by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because sex with drunk chicks is a major past time in America. Parties are arranged with alcohol specifically because people want to get drunk and fuck. It is well known that women do not go to bars to get laid; they go to bars to have fun, which is why we have wingmen--distract the girl's friends so she is isolated, because she's not there to get picked up. That's why guys take home so many drunk chicks: they did not come there to get taken home, they're just too drunk to think straight!

      Guys go out to the bar to find drunk bitches to fuck. Guys arrange parties and tell their friends to find chicks to bring so they can get them drunk and fuck them. This is not what college kids do. This is not what teenagers do. Thirties, forties guys do this. It is common, consistent, continuous behavior.

      Most laymen don't register this as 'wrong' until somebody calls it rape. Hell even women don't really take much notice that they've been taken for a romp; they just wake up, ask where the hell they are, and try to find their way home without giving it much thought.

      There is a sickness in the world, though perhaps I am pessimistic. Maybe the only reason we freak out when someone calls it 'rape' is because we've accepted this behavior to such a level that everyone pre-accepts the consequences--women don't go out to get fucked while they're passed out drunk, but when it happens most of them are like, "Oh yeah, that happens lol... man I was druuuuunk..." and don't flinch. Is this really what we are?

    11. Re:The really disturbing part by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      on a local level that may have been true. All I can really remember about it at the time was the media making it about race. but the point does still stand. pandering instead of upholding the rule of law

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    12. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nick Saban would probably disagree with you.

    13. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

      I forget; Which box is listed after "jury" in that famous quote about defending liberty?

      Then start shooting, tough guy.

      No, seriously. Get off your fat ass, grab a gun, and start defending liberty more than hiding behind a computer screen and regurgitating someone else's memes into an echo chamber. What's wrong? Don't you like liberty?

      You don't? Oh. Well then, sorry to disturb you. Keep up the good work, I'm certain something from Wikiquotes will make you a hero someday.

    14. Re:The really disturbing part by N!k0N · · Score: 1

      I mean, why bother even having laws against rape if you're not going to enforce them?

      I forget; Which box is listed after "jury" in that famous quote about defending liberty?

      what is ... ammo?

    15. Re:The really disturbing part by spidercoz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being originally from Small Town, Ohio, I can attest to the fact that people who live there have small minds and neither know nor care about things outside their own little world of shitty beer and Friday Night Lights. Quite simply, they make these dumb fucking children who have never been taught right from wrong into hero-figures because that is all they have. A few of those kids who are lucky/rich/smart enough will make it out, but for the majority of them, HS football is the peak of their lives, and they will spend their years after graduating living in the same town, working a shit job, and clinging to those days of "glory". Then when they have kids, they try to live vicariously through them, pushing them down the same path, and the cycle perpetuates itself. It's ridiculous and pathetic, but it's all these sad sacks of shit have.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
    16. Re:The really disturbing part by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      The racial and town/gown tensions were synergistic. In addition to the usual friction between rowdy college students and the locals who have to wake up and get to work, it wasn't exactly news that Duke was a whole lot whiter and a whole lot wealthier than the surroundings so when allegations emerged that the lacrosse team had raped the black stripper they had hired came up, it pushed all the pre-existing buttons. The DA, Mike Nifong was the local(and authoritative) figure responsible for really charging ahead of the evidence, allegedly because of his desire to curry favor for the upcoming election. Nationally, the media chatter was more about race, because local DA electoral politics is boring. In a rather exceptional outcome, Nifong managed to go so far that he ended up being sacked over the incident.

    17. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Football players contribute to entertainment, on of the two most important factors for controlling society. The other factor is food. It has long been known that this formula mostly works.

    18. Re:The really disturbing part by Bigby · · Score: 2

      There is just too much misinformation about this post.

      State College is no in "Western Pennsylvania". And neither is any part of Ohio. Are you referring to Roethlisberger's issues? At least those had to do with "rape".

      Meanwhile, there were 2 cases in State College. The one in 1998 was reported and fully investigated by the DA and multiple psychologists. The 2nd one, in 2001, was reported by the football team to the athletic department. They sat on it for whatever reason. This was prosecuted in 2012. That incident was the only one with a witness and also the only one where the charge of "rape" was determined to be "not guilty". And that victim has supposedly come forward saying he was never raped.

      Football personnel shouldn't be above the law, but neither should politicians, rich people, religious figures, and other revered figures. I feel like we worry more about blaming the sport than actually fixing the problem. People don't report inappropriate behavior. And when we do, it gets ignored (speaking from personal experience).

    19. Re:The really disturbing part by codepigeon · · Score: 1

      > Why is being able to run fast and throw/catch a ball accurately considered something that elevates these people above everyone else? >Why can't people be elevated for doing things that actually contribute to society?

      I have been hearing these same questions for 30 years. I am tending to think it is just human nature.

    20. Re:The really disturbing part by misexistentialist · · Score: 0, Troll

      It is well known that women do not go to bars to get laid; they go to bars to have fun>

      The only "fun" they're going to have is by dangling sex in front of the males, therefore they are in fact going out to get laid. All resistance, all cock-blocking, is either token or part of the selection process.

    21. Re:The really disturbing part by fermion · · Score: 3
      In a case like this where there is one person raped and a group of influential people who are the suspects, the town is going to defend the suspects or attack the victim. In texas where an 11 year girl was raped multiple times, the town said it was her fault for going with the people who raped her, she looked older than she was, she asked to be assaulted. This is not surprised. Many think boys have a right to sex, and when there is defenseless girl, of course they are going to assault her. And, of course,their boys are so virile that they would never have to force themselves, girls are naturally just going to submit. Are you saying my boy is so ugly and unskilled that he has to force girls to suck him? Is that what you are saying? Just saying.

      No, the disturbing issue is that the cops won't do their jobs and round up the suspects and let the prosecutors and grand jury decide base on evidence that was gathered in good faith. In the texas case, unlike the ohio case, the law followed the law and over 20 people have been convicted of a crime, and given various crimes from probation to life sentences. It is not up to the police to decide who is guilt and not. It is up to them to make arrests and collect evidence.

      And this problem is not limited to ohio. Minnesota has areas of with incredible high rape rates. Their excuse. It sometimes gets hot. Corpus Christi in Texas also is hot, and teens go there to party very hard, yet the rape rates are no where as high as parts of Minnesota. Maybe because the cops are going to arrest those who rape others, and not just blame the weather or the fact that victim was drunk.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    22. Re:The really disturbing part by cusco · · Score: 4, Informative

      They drugged her. Then when she was unconscious they raped her. Not the same thing at all.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    23. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For some reason I picture you often referring to sex in conversation as "coitus" without a dose of irony.

    24. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the problem with that view.
      If a girl group wants to be for themselves in a bar crowded with these "wingmen and get laid guys" then I'm pretty sure they can do that while having fun.

    25. Re:The really disturbing part by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      It would be a shame - a downright dirty shame - if their football shrine with all those precious trophies and memorabilia would suffer some sort of horrible, destructive fate.

      Boy I hope that doesn't happen.

    26. Re:The really disturbing part by drankr · · Score: 1

      I was just reading about the nurses who would not get vaccinated on account of Jesus Christ. In this case, the town's opposition to justice may have to do with some constitutional amendment, or indeed, Jesus Christ. We in Europe observe the United States with interest.

    27. Re:The really disturbing part by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Because they're entertaining. Most of the really rich and famous people are entertainers in one way or another.

    28. Re:The really disturbing part by PhxBlue · · Score: 2

      The only "fun" they're going to have is by dangling sex in front of the males, therefore they are in fact going out to get laid.

      Women do not exist to satisfy your sexual desires. They can (and many do) enjoy a girls' night out, and they have the right to do so without assbags like you calling it "dangling sex in front of the males."

      So kindly go fuck a fire ant nest while the rest of us men get on with the business of being more than walking penises.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    29. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is not the world you know? that bar-one-night-stand gimmick is almost exclusive of the USA. I'm not saying that the rest of the world is perfectly sane in respect to cultural stand towards sex, but these things are specific of your country.

    30. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is being able to run fast and throw/catch a ball accurately considered something that elevates these people above everyone else?

      Why can't people be elevated for doing things that actually contribute to society?

      Because hundreds of millions of people find that entertaining to watch, even if you don't. Entertaining people does contribute to society, even if it's in a form you don't care for. It doesn't justify criminal behavior, but you can't say they don't contribute.

    31. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is well known that women do not go to bars to get laid.

      Let's see: She's not there to fuck but her girlfriends (presumably also not there to fuck) desert her. Apparently that's not the girlfriend's fault. It's not the woman's fault that she consumed too much alcohol. It's not a drunk woman's fault she follows a man home. It's not her fault she has drunken sex. It's not her fault she tolerates her drunken 'misbehaviour'.

      I hope you apply this blameless philosophy to drunken drivers.

      Bars are full of women and men are predators but strangely, most women control what they drink.

    32. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    33. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can attest to this, thank god I'm in Florida now.

    34. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is southeastern Ohio, not western PA. But yes, I'm not terribly surprised - I actually know a few people from the town in question, and it's a real dump.

      In fact there is a state in between the corner of Ohio Stubenville resides in and Pennsylvania, West Virginia. And none of the 3 states within walking distance of Stubenville want the town.

      But at any rate, the entirety of PA from south and east of Pittsburgh/Allegheny County, the West Virginia Panhandle, and southeast Ohio are all the same place: Hicksville.

    35. Re:The really disturbing part by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      There is just too much misinformation about this post.

      State College is no in "Western Pennsylvania". And neither is any part of Ohio. .

      True, but very few people live in the center of Pennsylvania. Penn State's membership is largely people from the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia areas, where the vast majority of the people in the state live. Ohio people tend to go to Ohio State.

      I can't speak about Eastern Pa as I travel there only rarely; but for the entirety of Western and Central Pennsylvania, GP's words are quite true. "football trumps justice"

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    36. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just the small towns, the stupidity is everywhere. I lived in Moderately-Sized Town, Pennsylvania, where a couple of high school football players assaulted a student in the library, putting him into hospital. Players were initially suspended, but someone wrote an apology letter and everything became better just in time for football season. Worse was overhearing adults, parents of other children, saying "well, they should be punished of course, but I think that you shouldn't take away their chances at a winning season."

    37. Re:The really disturbing part by misexistentialist · · Score: 0

      The point of "girls' night out" in a bar is to pickup or at least flirt with men, whatever your girlfriend says to you, chump. Girls don't go to bars to watch sports.

    38. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a woman gets that drunk, then she probably has a good idea what might happen. That's horrible of me to say, you say? Well. I hold men to the same standard. If I go to a gay bar I don't get so drunk I do something dangerous or wind up in bed with some lemon party extra. That's called being responsible. If I ever did, I certainly wouldn't cry rape. I would blame myself, and rightly so. I've known people crazy shit has happened to but none of them called it rape. They called it what it was: got stupid drink and did stupid shit as a result.

    39. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a sickness in the world, though perhaps I am pessimistic.

      You overgeneralized and mischaracterized two genders. The sickness in this world is you.

    40. Re:The really disturbing part by yurtinus · · Score: 2

      We're still talking about this? Maybe I see the world differently, but the whole nerd vs jock thing completely stopped mattering to me at high school graduation... The best advice parents can give to their grade school nerd children (and what mine gave me): Once you're out of high school, you'll have more friends, make more money, and be more respected than just about all of those jocks. Then again, my small town might not have been like this small town...

      --
      +1 Disagree
    41. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this guy pretty much summed it!

    42. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Umm. What the hell makes you think women don't go out to get laid? Are you serious? Drinking alcohol lowers inhibitions, and in many cases women do that specifically to lower the ridiculous inhibitions that society places on 'loose behaviour' by women.

      Just because women tend to be less aggressive in the mating game, doesn't mean they're not eager participants.

      Further, your slippery slope argument dilutes actual cases of rape which are all too frequent.

    43. Re:The really disturbing part by quenda · · Score: 1

      17-year-old was gang-raped, and no charges have been filed.

      None aside from the two boys charged with rape and kidnapping a few days after the event, you mean, who spent 2 months in jail and are now under house arrest pending trial?

      You are talking about the Steubenville case? How does this get modded +5 informative?

    44. Re:The really disturbing part by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Q: What's the blond mating call? A: I'm so drunk!

      Q: What's the fat blond mating call? A: I SAID I WAS DRUNK!

      There are more then a few girls that need the 'I was drunk excuse'. On the other hand I've seen college girls going out wearing rival sorority letters when they were _planning_ on getting drunk and laid. They got into a drunken fight at the bar when the other sorority's girls saw them.

      After that I tried to keep track of who was who.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    45. Re:The really disturbing part by PhxBlue · · Score: 2

      They do it to hang out with one another, moron.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    46. Re:The really disturbing part by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Obviously so you can inforce them against the poor and against racial minorities [who aren't rich or famous]. Get with the program, man, it's the same reason we fight the war on drugs.

    47. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's not really disturbing. This is common

      Your assertion that it is common makes it MORE disturbing, not less.

    48. Re:The really disturbing part by XcepticZP · · Score: 1

      They can "hang out with one another" at home, you know. Or at the movies. Or at a restaurant. Or at the local mall. But nooo, they choose a local bar, filled with a disproportionate concentration of horny guys. It's the same reason why they dress their best most of the time. Don't pretend like it isn't sexual.

    49. Re:The really disturbing part by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that it is possible to have consensual sex while intoxicated. Put another way, I do not believe that every time a “drunk chick” goes home with a stranger she met at a bar, this experience should naturally and automatically be classified as rape.

      It is certainly true that, when these events ARE rape, they may go unrecognized as such by the survivor for a long time, sometimes indefinitely- and this does represent a “sickness in our world”.

      However, as a 28-year-old woman who has had both types of experiences (I have had consensual sex with an acquaintance while I was drunk and have also been raped by an acquaintance while I was drunk), it is my perspective that the difference between these experiences is extremely intuitive. When I have had drunken, consensual sex (for the purposes of this discussion I am excluding instances that were with a boyfriend), it was fun and pleasurable. I may even have regretted it the next day, saying to my friends “oh god, i can’t believe i slept with him... man i was druuuuunk” and YET it was completely clear to me, both in the moment and thereafter, that I wanted to have sex. When I was raped, though it did take me some time to name the experience rape, it was clear to me that I had not wanted to have sex, that I had not consented. For the record, I believe that the men involved in these two very different experiences also knew, just as intuitively as I knew, whether or not I wanted to have sex with them.

    50. Re:The really disturbing part by callmejane · · Score: 1

      I appreciate the sentiment of this comment, however: I believe that it is possible to have consensual sex while intoxicated. Put another way, I do not believe that every time a “drunk chick” goes home with a stranger she met at a bar, this experience should naturally and automatically be classified as rape. It is certainly true that, when these events ARE rape, they may go unrecognized as such by the survivor for a long time, sometimes indefinitely- and this does represent a “sickness in our world”. However, as a 28-year-old woman who has had both types of experiences (I have had consensual sex with an acquaintance while I was drunk and have also been raped by an acquaintance while I was drunk), it is my perspective that the difference between these experiences is extremely intuitive. When I have had drunken, consensual sex (for the purposes of this discussion I am excluding instances that were with a boyfriend), it was fun and pleasurable. I may even have regretted it the next day, saying to my friends “oh god, i can’t believe i slept with him... man i was druuuuunk” and YET it was completely clear to me, both in the moment and thereafter, that I wanted to have sex. When I was raped, though it did take me some time to name the experience rape, it was clear to me that I had not wanted to have sex, that I had not consented. For the record, I believe that the men involved in these two very different experiences also knew, just as intuitively as I knew, whether or not I wanted to have sex with them.

    51. Re:The really disturbing part by PhxBlue · · Score: 1

      They can "hang out with one another" at home, you know. Or at the movies. Or at a restaurant. Or at the local mall. But nooo, they choose a local bar, filled with a disproportionate concentration of horny guys.

      You're implying that women don't have a right to enjoy themselves in a bar without being harassed. Do you live in a cave in Afghanistan or something?

      Being horny doesn't give a man an excuse to harass a woman. EVER.

      Don't pretend like it isn't sexual.

      If it's sexual, it's because you and meatheads like you make it that way. Not every girl who goes onto the dance floor wants your smelly junk rubbing up against her without her permission.

      Walking penises like you and misexistentialist are why we end up with situations like Steubenville, where guys think it's OK to fuck an unconscious 16-year-old girl. Why don't you go stick your dick (if you can find it) in a fire ant mound, too.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    52. Re:The really disturbing part by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It's often quite clear that a woman will in no way have sex with you, ever. Then: alcohol. Fuck yeah.

    53. Re:The really disturbing part by callmejane · · Score: 1

      Well, alcohol removes inhibitions. What I am saying is that there is a difference between wanting to do something that is against your better judgement, or different from what your sober self would do, and being taken advantage of. In the former instance, you are still DECIDING to do something (it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion how poor or good you later think that choice to be). In the latter instance, something undesired is being forced upon you.

    54. Re:The really disturbing part by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      So, it's her fault because she let herself be coerced (by use of mind-altering drugs, in this case)? Is the skillful use of peer pressure also fair game (potentially even more effective, although part of the whole alcohol thing is peer pressure--she can't very well NOT drink, can she?)?

  5. archive.org by schneidafunk · · Score: 1

    I do not see anything in the article that describes how they 'hacked' their way to the truth. It looks like a simple look up of cached info.

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:archive.org by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If you click through to the actual Anonymous page, you'll see that they also got into email accounts. Low level hacking.

  6. Re:Tainted evidence by CurunirAran · · Score: 1

    Actually, wouldn't the evidence just be rejected, instead of the case being dropped entirely?

  7. Re:Tainted evidence by John+Napkintosh · · Score: 1

    Is that how it works? If prosecutors aren't directly involved in the acquisition of the evidence (i.e.: soliciting anonymous to collect it), I thought it was admissible.

    --

    Long signatures suck.
  8. Re:Tainted evidence by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Informative

    When this story came out, the prosecutor told the press that they already had collected the video in question. And still hadn't charged anybody.

    In other words, there's an untainted trail of the evidence, and the reason that Anonymous got involved at all is that they're trying to shame the prosecutor's office into doing something.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  9. It would appear... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The better title might be 'Anonymous actually gives a damn about gang rape case, unlike clannish and football crazed natives of some backwater hellhole'.

    The perps in this case were almost unbelievably sloppy in concealing their activities; but the people supposed to be enforcing the law were, by turns, overtly apathetic and far more interested in protecting their hometown heroes and their precious football season than actually seeing justice done.

    1. Re:It would appear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When asked for comment, 4chan replied "we all like the staged videos, but there's something creepy when it really happens,"

    2. Re:It would appear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The authorities aren't overtly apathetic, they're seem to be in full-on coverup mode. According to the narrative that Anonymous/Localleaks/Knight Sec are telling, they have a vested interest that goes well beyond preserving hometown pride. One of the players implicated is the son of the county prosecutor attached to the case, and allegedly the girl transported to the prosecutor's residence during that night and raped before being transported to another location.

    3. Re:It would appear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those who did not bother with TFA, mod parent up

    4. Re:It would appear... by hey! · · Score: 1

      The better title might be 'Anonymous actually gives a damn about gang rape case, unlike clannish and football crazed natives of some backwater hellhole'.

      You don't know that. If it's like most communities most places, people are along a spectrum from knuckledraggers who think drunk girls are fair game to tub-thumpers who advocate castration for looking at a woman lustfully, and everything in between. What matters is which groups are the most organized and have their hands on the reins of political power.

      It's easy to jump to conclusions that nobody cares just because you haven't heard that anyone cares, especially if it fits into a narrative you believe in, for example that all small town people are narrow-minded and ignorant. The truth is we can't know, because of the death of reporting in this country. Somebody has to go there with the intent to ferret out the facts and not to tell some pre-determined story.

      The first thing that needs to be done is to try the accused perpetrators fairly. After that there probably needs to be something like a truth and reconciliation commission like they had in South Africa -- not focused on the rape itself but on the official and public response to the rape. Why were some suspects pursued and others not? Who knew about it and why didn't they call the police? Who do people think knew about it but actually didn't? Was the investigation handled properly? Until questions like that are answered, public opinion will consider everyone guilty by association. We can't rely on the media to do the job because they're just a sideshow bent on selling tickets.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:It would appear... by hey! · · Score: 1

      The better title might be 'Anonymous actually gives a damn about gang rape case, unlike clannish and football crazed natives of some backwater hellhole'.

      I'm not so certain about that. On one hand, there is a certain pleasure in playing the part of a masked vigilante. On the other, people seem to be unaware that the Steubenville police actually arrested and charged two of the football players eleven days after the incident, well before Anonymous got involved. That may seem slow, but is eleven days a long time for the police department to take to charge someone with a crime like that? I don't know, the only criminal investigations I've ever seen are on TV.

      Suppose the Steubenville police response was timely, and that it didn't have sufficient evidence (at the time) to pursue further indictments. In that case it would be possible to put an entirely different construction on the facts, e.g., that Anonymous is getting its rocks off at the expense of the victim. I actually think they believe they are doing good, but the jury is out on that as far as I'm concerned. People nearly *always* feel they are doing good.

      When something like this happens, the public wants quick, easy-to-digest answers -- that means answers that tell us what we already believe. But there are some important questions here, and what I'm afraid is that the public won't have the attention span to get *good* answers.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:It would appear... by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      The prosecutor that stepped down from the case and delegated her authority to the State AG to prosecute the case?

      Yup, definitely a coverup. Mod parent -5 Wrong.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  10. Re:Tainted evidence by alen · · Score: 1

    not like the cops did any better

    may not be enough for a criminal conviction, but the victim will probably get some justice now from civil suits

  11. Video link by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Deadspin has been great about following this story (see the other links(, and this page from a few days ago is more in depth and has the video itself (and some choice quotes if you can't listen to this sort of thing):

    http://deadspin.com/5972527/she-is-so-raped-right-now-former-student-jokes-about-the-steubenville-accuser-the-night-of-the-alleged-rape

    Truly despicable.

    --
    I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    1. Re:Video link by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 1

      To follow-up, the kid in that video is apparently no longer a student at Ohio State University, although it is unclear whether or not it was voluntary or... encouraged.

      https://twitter.com/OhioState/status/288327446175027202

      --
      I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    2. Re:Video link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has his scholarship been revoked, yet?

    3. Re:Video link by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

      that is ohio state university. no caps for them.

    4. Re:Video link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A little dark humor from the comments:

      (from the video) "It isn't really rape because you don't know if she wanted to or not."

      Well, he's got a bright future as a Republican speech writer.

  12. Re:Tainted evidence by Kinthelt · · Score: 1

    Yes, the evidence would be inadmissible in court. The correct procedure is to let the police gather it.

    --

    "Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

  13. This just in by s0nicfreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anonymous wanted for possession of child porn

    1. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not news...

    2. Re:This just in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's been true since 2004.
      Hell, technically later since the whole Anonymous thing as it is now never started till 2007, from 04-07 it was actually just a joke...
      RIP Anonymous, all hail Anonymous, etc.

  14. Robots.txt is your friend by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... It looks like a simple look up of cached info.

    I always use robots.txt to forbid caching my incriminating evidence.

    You can't be too careful these days...

    1. Re:Robots.txt is your friend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all bots respect robots.txt...so you're only preventing the most obvious caching sites (mostly search engines).

  15. Re:Tainted evidence by CurunirAran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But sadly most police forces are actually incapable of gathering such evidence,

  16. Re:Tainted evidence by John+Napkintosh · · Score: 2

    So can anonymous tips be used in investigation? How can it be known whether the information in a tip was collected legally if the police didn't collect it? And therefore how can any information discovered from following such a tip be allowed?

    --

    Long signatures suck.
  17. False dichotomies ... by BenBoy · · Score: 2

    Not addressing the rape here, but the tech ... It's striking, I think, that we still frame the conversations "The People", with cameras (social media), and "Big Brother", with cameras. But it's all just data, isn't it? And every side gets a chance to try to obtain and to frame that data. I wonder if London didn't waste a bunch of cash installing their panopticon when crowd-sourcing seems to be getting the job done so nicely.

    1. Re:False dichotomies ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is all just data.

      But who holds and has access to the data is the issue, not the data itself.

      I'm a Londoner. I'm filmed everywhere I go. I also know that I can request a copy of any footage of me thanks to the Data Protection Act. There's a fee (£10 iirc) as someone needs to go through the film, find me, then blur out everyone else's face (to preserve there right to privacy).

      That's true of any data anyone holds on me.

      I personally don't have a problem with it and would ask anyone who dislikes the idea of other people knowing what they're up to; why do you choose to live along side 8,174,100 (as of 2011) other people?

    2. Re:False dichotomies ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      London doesn't have a 'panopticon' of the sort you're thinking. What is has is tens of thousands of cameras owned privately, mostly by shopkeepers and building managers, plus some traffic enforcement cameras, and only a relative handful that are actually connected to any sort of law enforcement.

      So it's already pretty much crowdsourced.

  18. Right guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right guys, that's the reason they started seeking out and saving this rape video... yep... 'justice'... no other motive at all.

    1. Re:Right guys... by PhxBlue · · Score: 0

      Right guys, that's the reason they started seeking out and saving this rape video... yep... 'justice'... no other motive at all.

      Scoff if you want, but there're a lot of "white knight" anons out there, and a lot of people who are in it to see justice done.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  19. Re:Tainted evidence by rolfwind · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

    Um no. First of all, Police get evidence ALL THE TIME from secondhand sources. And they don't need a warrant for that either.

    Second, I doubt anonymous was able to touch the item that filmed this video. It's still in the camera, even if "deleted". Police got a big heads up to its existence.

    Courts most of the time don't go "OMG, IT AINT PURE!!!". They consider many factors and some even *gasp* come to reasonable conclusions.

  20. Not sure which is more disturbing... by kaizendojo · · Score: 1

    The story or the synopsis posting... "Evidence of a gang rape committed by members of an Ohio high school football team, including video, was, in the way of digital native teenagers today, put online on various social media sites — and was quickly taken down as students began realizing the magnitude of the situation." Enough to make your ears bleed.

    OK, the story itself is more disturbing, but c'mon editors; please read these posts before approving them. A touch of grammar saves the day.

  21. Re:Tainted evidence by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The prosecutor, you mean the mother of one of the kids on the football team?

    Hurray small town america.

  22. Re:Tainted evidence by PhxBlue · · Score: 2

    In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

    Yes, because police and prosecutors have never relied on anonymous tips to generate leads in cases before.

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  23. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, it is admissible. IAaL, I am assuming you are not an attorney. Any objection the defense has will go the weight and not the admissibility. All you need is someone to testify to the video, and that the contents are a fair and accurate representation of the events that occurred. It is a matter of course to identify the videographer, people in the video, etc. If the defense wants to attack the authenticity of the video, or if it was edited, that is fine, but it will, as stated above, only serve to limit the weight the jury gives it and not the admissibility for consideration. Additionally, you don't need video evidence of a rape to prove rape. They arrested, convicted and punished people for 1000s of years without video evidence, and in most cases today there is none.

  24. Vote Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like Anonymous is interested in becoming a political party.

  25. Re:Tainted evidence by cusco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Anonymous tips can be used to get a search warrant, but considering the technological competence of the average cop that I've worked with they wouldn't bother following it up because they wouldn't have a clue how. They mostly become cops because they want to be heroes and/or because they like to push people around, not because they got bored being a computer guru. Most often anonymous tips are used in drug cases (because the cops can seize the property and sell it) and murder cases that have made the front page. In fairness though, there just isn't enough manpower available to follow even the most obvious trail unless the crime has made it to the high priority list for some reason, and police work doesn't pay enough to attract anyone competent at computer forensics.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  26. Re:Tainted evidence by gpmanrpi · · Score: 1

    And I forgot to login :)

  27. Re:Tainted evidence by pla · · Score: 1

    In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

    Sorry, no.

    For the same reason we rant against calling copyright violations "stealing", the fact that anonymous found it first doesn't have any impact on the admissibility of the evidence. The police, now that someone has shown them how to do their jobs, can go to the same "untainted" sources and obtain the same evidence with a clean chain of custody. Happy day!

  28. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The prosecutor, you mean the mother of one of the kids on the football team?

    Hurray small town america.

    So, will she prosecute her sons' sociopathic friends and allow her snowflake to be shunned and bullied?

    Probably not.

  29. Irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares, it's just random people on the Internet looking for headlines, again. Anonymous is irrelevant. It always has been and always will be.

  30. Wrong by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Under Ohio law, the Ohio Attorney General is elected by the voters of the state and does not have the independent jurisdiction or ability to undertake investigations or prosecutions of juvenile crime. In this case, the Jefferson County Prosecuting Attorney who has such authority delegated her authority to the Attorney General's office to act as special prosecutor in the matter. The special prosecutors are not from the Steubenville area and graduated high school elsewhere."

    Source

  31. Government cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You are correct that rape deserves a harsher sentence, but you are absolutely wrong that the solution is the death penalty. The reason why the death penalty should be abolished is that government cannot be trusted with such power. The death penalty is irreversible, and government makes mistakes -- whether accidental or not. That alone is all the rationale we need to abolish the death penalty. But if you care to open your eyes, the evidence is absolutely startling. It is a regular occurance for inmates on death row to later be found innocent, and the rate seems to be increasing. It is very likely that the US government has already executed an innocent man, probably more.

    That's not a shortcoming of the judicial system. That's murder, plain and simple.

    1. Re:Government cannot be trusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To follow up, the reason why I brought this issue forward is because it trumps all other arguments concerning the death penalty, whether for OR against. When the supposed protector of justice and human rights turns into the very criminal they claim to protect against, the entire justification for such a "protector" is demolished. This isn't an emotional argument or even a statistical one. This is pure logic.

  32. Sheriff says he'll arrest the hackers. by Andy+Prough · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The sheriff is going after KnightSec, says none of the "evidence" they provided was actual evidence of a crime: http://www.wtov9.com/news/news/sheriff-anonymous-hacker-im-coming-after-you/nTnNX/.

    From this article:

    "Why put their names out there? Why put their addresses out there? With all the crackpots we have running around this country? With all of the sex offenders were have out there, plenty of them in Jefferson County, why put children’s names out there?” said Abdalla. "Mothers have taken their children out of school in fear of what may happen. This has gone too far. Enough is enough." Abdalla also claimed to know the identity of the person leading the online effort. "I'll deal with that at another time," said Abdalla. "I know where he lives. I know his name, his mother's name, his father's name, his brother's name."

    1. Re:Sheriff says he'll arrest the hackers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Too bad the sheriff didn't put as much concern and effort into dealing with the rape.

  33. Huh? Not charged? by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Informative

    -August 11-12, 2012. The incident that began this case occurred.

    -August 14, 2012. The incident was reported to Steubenville Police.

    -August 16, 2012. Electronic devices of people who potentially had knowledge of the incident were taken, pursuant to search warrants.

    -August 17, 2012. Steubenville Police request technical and investigative support from the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation "BCI" (a state agency supervised by the Ohio Attorney General). At the request of Steubenville Police, BCI expedited the evidence analysis. The analysis involved uncovering and reviewing tens of thousands of emails, texts, and photos from approximately a dozen electronic devices. The vast majority of such data was unrelated to the case. Investigators and forensic examiners never found any video of the alleged crime.

    -August 22, 2012. Based on the investigation of the Steubenville Police, two juvenile males were arrested and charged. Their names are Trent Mays and Ma'lik Richmond. Suspects remained in juvenile detention until November 1, 2012 when the Visiting Judge (from outside the county) assigned to the case placed the suspects on home arrest.

    -August 28, 2012. County Prosecuting Attorney delegates her authority to special prosecutors from the Ohio Attorney General's Office.

    -August 30, 2012. Steubenville Police meet with the special prosecutors.

    -The Juvenile Court trial in this case is scheduled for February 13, 2013. Circumstances surrounding media and public access to that trial are controlled by the Visiting Judge.

    Source

    1. Re:Huh? Not charged? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      But that's not good enough for Anonymous. Somebody saw a small story in the news, got outraged, and didn't bother finding facts. Then they stir up a small army of vigilantes who scour the Web for information, without concern for or restriction by due process. Exculpatory evidence need not be cataloged. Eventually something suitably close to incriminating is found, an a big fuss is made over it, to force a trial of public opinion. As the now-highly-publicized trial starts, the Anonymous participants move on to other activities, basking in the good feelings of having fought and won against the evil government and its corrupt law enforcement.

      Then the real world goes on. The lawyers argue about whether the trial is fair, whether the evidence is admissible, whether all evidence is disclosed properly, and whether it's really even right to drag the whole rest of the school through the ensuing media circus. The town's under scrutiny for years, regardless of the actual outcome of the trial. "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't matter, but Anonymous still doesn't care. They made a dent in their windmill.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:Huh? Not charged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, the County Prosecuting Attorney is the mother of one of the football players involved, yet takes 2 weeks to delegate away her authority? And you don't see anything wrong with that? Move along, nothing to see here.

    3. Re:Huh? Not charged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dave Schroeder has the jackboot of government fully up his ass. Just read his comment history.

    4. Re:Huh? Not charged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6 days, dumbass. 6 days.

  34. Bastards. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope they get everything they deserve.

  35. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Evidence which is obtained through illegal means, such as hacking someone's email account, can be admitted as long as the person who gathered the evidence was not following the direction of law enforcement at the time they were committing the crime.

  36. What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Um, I'm a little puzzled by the phrase "Gang Rape" in the headline here.

    Reading through the two-page article in the New York Times, it sounds like a lot of drunken high-school idiots making assholes of themselves... but the only part that is actually "rape" seems to be one kid bragging that he "slipped a finger" inside the drunken girl. No question here: if he did that, and isn't just bragging to his buddies, that is indeed rape, since she was too drunk to consent (and, apparently, too drunk to even know). ... but if it's one person, it can't be "gang" rape.

    1. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not rape: it's sexual abuse. If you call it rape you degrade women who were raped, that is, were forcefully penetrated by a man with his penis without consent.

    2. Re:What does "gang" mean? by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      It depends on the jurisdiction. The legal definition of rape varies. In some places any penetration at all is rape.

    3. Re:What does "gang" mean? by rpresser · · Score: 3, Informative

      The "confession" video has a boy saying "They raped her harder than that cop raped Marcellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction."

    4. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What if you pick someones nose without consent? rape or assault?

    5. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2

      You can't get pregnant from oral or anal sex, either, but it can still constitute rape. So does entry with a physical object. It's also possible for a woman to rape a man by causing him to penetrate her, even though she's the willing part of it.

      For example, under Texas law, penetration "by any means" of another person without the consent of both of those involved is sexual assault. Even non-consensual contact (without penetration) of one person's sexual organ with another's sexual organ, anus, or mouth is considered sexual assault. (Penal Code Section 22.011)

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    6. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      Medical experts should be able to answer this question more definitively. But, this information probably isn't public.

    7. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      I hope he's endlessly mocked for not having actually seen that movie, in addition to every other horrible thing he's got coming.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
    8. Re:What does "gang" mean? by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Watch it again yourself. One of the rapists was the shop owner (Maynard); the other was a cop (Zed).

    9. Re:What does "gang" mean? by rpresser · · Score: 1

      OK, maybe he's a security guard and not a cop. But he's wearing a uniform and it's never explicitly said what his job is.

    10. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Americano · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's an 8-page article in my browser at least - make sure you look at the other 6 pages, wherein they detail: that she was passed out and at least two of the players "slipped a finger" inside, in addition to taking her clothes off, inviting other people to urinate on her, and flashing her breasts while she was passed out. And they recovered two photos from one of the suspects' phones, one of which shows the girl "face down on the floor, naked, with her arms tucked beneath her," and the other which they don't describe.

      Here's the single-page version of the NYTimes story, and it's got plenty of details to support *allegations* of a gang rape. Whether or not these allegations are true is what will be determined at trial.

    11. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's heresay. Not evidence. It's not admissible as evidence of any rape. Now if that same kid were to contradict that statement on the stand, it could then become admissible because it would be inconstant to his prior statement. That being said, he could simply say that he was joking in the YouTube video, or was making it up to be a braggart. You really need the girl herself to testify, and I sort of doubt she will.

    12. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Americano · · Score: 1

      Homespun, conventional wisdom ain't always so wise. In most US jurisdictions, you're going to be hard-pressed to find forced, non-consensual penetration of the vagina or anus - whether with a penis, a finger, or anything else - NOT be defined as "rape."

      Here's an excerpt from the relevant federal law:

      United States Federal Law [Title 10, Subtitle A, Chapter 47X, Section 920, Article 120] defines rape as:
      “ (a) Rape.— Any person subject to this chapter who causes another person of any age to engage in a sexual act by—
      (1) using force against that other person;
      (2) causing grievous bodily harm to any person;
      (3) threatening or placing that other person in fear that any person will be subjected to death, grievous bodily harm, or kidnapping;
      (4) rendering another person unconscious; or
      (5) administering to another person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or permission of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairs the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct.

    13. Re:What does "gang" mean? by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Informative

      You heard wrong and obviously have never spoken to a rape victim. Rape is not a sex act, it is an act of hatred and violence. Its only purpose its to hurt, demean, and humiliate the victim. Many rapes are done with broom handles, pool sticks, toilet plungers, etc.

      Rapists don't rape because they're horny, they rape because they hate women.

    14. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So a gang of assholes standing around watching while someone gets raped is not a gang-rape?

      correct. who knows. maybe if one had tried to a hero, they'd also get raped.

    15. Re:What does "gang" mean? by cayenne8 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Rape is not a sex act, it is an act of hatred and violence

      You know...I hear this all the time, but I have a hard time buying it..at least in most cases.

      Sure if you shove something else in a woman besides a hard dick....I can see that it isn't a sex act for the most part (although some people get off on that).

      But if it is a male fucking a female, well, he has to be sexually aroused in order to perform the act, no?

      Sure there may be some other thoughts going on there too...fantasy, anger, etc...but it is fundamentally a sexual act and could not be performed with a limp dick if the male in question was not sexually aroused.

      And I think we're also seeing more these days...women who were willing at the time...who either right near the end, or even after the act yell "rape"....which isn't fair to the guy, especially after it is done and over with, yet he is still in a world of shit legally.

      But if a true rapist doesn't get turned on by women, then I cannot see how he could physically complete the act if not sexually aroused, by definition, making it a sex act/ sex crime.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    16. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since many rapes are done with broom handles etc etc, the shouldn't that be...

      Many rapist dont rape because they're horny, many rape because they hate woman.

      Anyway what maked you an expert on the minds of rapists, Im sure there are a number of complex reasons, take your dogma elsewhere.

    17. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rapists don't rape because they're horny, they rape because they hate women.

      Then why do they choose a relatively complicated way to express this hate, instead of, say, assaulting/killing the woman?

    18. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of consensual heterosexual sex has an element of violence in it, even the missionary position has a subtle element of domination to it. I don't know why, but it seems to entice women to be just the LEAST BIT AFRAID FOR THEIR LIFE when they're around you. I am a very emotionally and physically gentle man, the classic "beta male", never even been in a fistfight, but the women I've slept with have ALL outright DEMANDED (after the 4th or 5th time) that I do at least one of the following: spank them hard enough to leave a welt, restrain them while they try to break free, or humiliate them by pulling out without warning and forcing my dick into their mouths. I was always shocked to hear these requests, but after confirming two or three times that YES, she really DOES want me to do what I just heard her say, I obliged. It didn't really do much for my arousal directly, but all the girls were howling with joy as I spanked them loud enough to wake the neighbors, and were more affectionate and cuddly afterwards. When I asked them about the violence they wanted, they'd blush and say, "oh, I guess that just happened". These are normal (apparently), well-adjusted, middle-class 18-22 year-old girls with intact families, many of whom were virgins when we first went to bed. And each one was a girlfriend I'd spent months getting to know before having sex; I guess I'm old-fashioned for spending time with each girl to establish she's not crazy / carrying scars from abuse.

      Disclaimer: I'm not saying that when a woman gets raped, "she was asking for it" (unless she does that big-city-lover bullshit where she decides in the morning after that regret and rape are the same thing). I believe in prosecuting rapists. But the idea that when violence gets involved in sex, as it most assuredly does in cases of rape, that the whole thing is "just about hatred and control" seems silly. There are, as one author put it, "shades of grey", and it's something that's worth thinking about more deeply than "RAPISTS JUST HATE WOMEN" (-- gotta politicize EVERY personal matter these days)

    19. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rapists don't rape because they're horny, they rape because they hate women.

      Even the ones who rape men?

    20. Re:What does "gang" mean? by cffrost · · Score: 2

      Rape is not a sex act, it is an act of hatred and violence

      You know...I hear this all the time, but I have a hard time buying it..at least in most cases.

      Sure if you shove something else in a woman besides a hard dick....I can see that it isn't a sex act for the most part (although some people get off on that).

      But if it is a male fucking a female, well, he has to be sexually aroused in order to perform the act, no?

      Sure there may be some other thoughts going on there too...fantasy, anger, etc...but it is fundamentally a sexual act and could not be performed with a limp dick if the male in question was not sexually aroused.

      And I think we're also seeing more these days...women who were willing at the time...who either right near the end, or even after the act yell "rape"....which isn't fair to the guy, especially after it is done and over with, yet he is still in a world of shit legally.

      But if a true rapist doesn't get turned on by women, then I cannot see how he could physically complete the act if not sexually aroused, by definition, making it a sex act/ sex crime.

      I understand your point. I'm not qualified to speak authoritatively on the following, but if you'll indulge my speculation as a layperson:

      It's possible that (if) rape is a paraphilia, particularly for someone who's clinically (i.e., diagnosed/diagnosable as) sexually sadistic* and afflicted with anti-social personality disorder (or similar). In such a case, I can imagine that if the victim began moaning with pleasure, or otherwise indicating enjoyment**, the attacker may well lose his boner.

        * I am not suggesting that sexual "lifestyle sadists" engaging in consensual relationships/activities are in any way comparable to violent criminals.
      ** This is purely hypothetical, and is certainly not an suggestion as a rape-cessation strategy.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    21. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2011/04/14/the-pro-rape-coalition/

      How would you respond to this?

    22. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You heard wrong and obviously have never spoken to a rape victim. Rape is not a sex act, it is an act of hatred and violence. Its only purpose its to hurt, demean, and humiliate the victim. Many rapes are done with broom handles, pool sticks, toilet plungers, etc.

      Rapists don't rape because they're horny, they rape because they hate women.

      By Jack M. (An excerpt from the Manhattan Spirit)

      "I raped a woman. I do not believe that I am a pathological sex offender, but all the same, I raped. I don't think I am a bad guy. I have a college degree in the arts from a prestigious school and I get along well with my parents, who are still married. I do not hate women or the world, or myself, for that matter. My female friends, as well as many of my ex-girlfriends, think I am a bright, caring, understanding person. But all of that did not keep me from raping."

    23. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Because only women get raped?

    24. Re:What does "gang" mean? by rpresser · · Score: 1

      There is enough smoke here that I, who am neither a fireman nor an owner of flammable property, feel safe guessing there's probably a fire. I'll leave the law and order to those paid for it.

    25. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Macgrrl · · Score: 2

      Have you considered that they may not be turned on by the woman as such, but by the power they have over her.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    26. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Macgrrl · · Score: 2

      While it's no longer assumed that a woman will be a virgin until she marries, there is still a degree of double standards regarding how many sexual partners a woman has. A raped woman is seen as having been defiled. Her value diminished in a way that merely breaking her arm or cracking a few ribs does equal.

      Society generally still questions what the woman did to 'deserve' being raped - how was she dressed, why was she there alone, why was she with him?

      It all adds to the power the rapist has over their victim. The stigma the rape victim will carry with them after the event is part of the territory marking and dominance by the rapist.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    27. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      www.youtube.com/watch?v=22UsHZXPi7Q

      That's the confession video.

    28. Re:What does "gang" mean? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Have you considered that they may not be turned on by the woman as such, but by the power they have over her.

      Speaking as a guy...not.

      Power does not get your penis erect....sexual thoughts do, and quite readily.

      From your alias, I'm guessing your a girl....and in this aspect, sex...we two sexes think and react very differently for the most part.

      Women can seemed to get turned on and pleasured by a lot of different stimulation...feelings, emotion, etc.

      With guys, it is largely visual and pure lust feelings, emotions don't even have to enter into the equation for the most part, it is just lust that gets us hard.

      Generally speaking of course.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    29. Re:What does "gang" mean? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Power does not get your penis erect....sexual thoughts do, and quite readily.

      But what arouses you doesn't necessarily arouse another guy. I knew one guy that was turned on by woman's feet. Some men are turned on by other men. Some men are turned on by the helplessness of a victim.

      Rapists are sick fuckers.

    30. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you considered that the intent might be one of lust, but it is interpreted as power? Have you ever seen how lust and thinking are less than correlated in males?

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/alternative-truths/201012/pretty-women-make-simple-men - the references look interesting, as well.

    31. Re: What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being submissive and/or a masochist is *not* the same thing as being enticed by being afraid for one's life.

    32. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not always true but not wrong either.

    33. Re:What does "gang" mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does "some men" translate to "all rapists"? I'd like some supporting evidence please.

  37. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And most engineers build secret entrances into the buildings so they can rob you in the night. They mainly do it so they can steal all your tinfoil hats that you are using to keep the aliens from reading your mind. I love your pessimism about the police. I'm sure they're not all good but you've been watching way to many cop movies on TV. I bet you're just sad they can openly carry their guns and you can't.

  38. Re:Tainted evidence by cusco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yeah, good luck with that. I grew up in a cliquish cesspit like that, in northern Michigan in the '70s. The mayor's kid, a star of the high school football team, date-raped at least two girls (and probably more), and when they had the audacity to complain the entire community branded them as 'sluts' who were just jealous of his new girl. Police refused to investigate, and no lawyer in town would represent them. He boasted later about having gone back and sodomized one of the girls "to shut her up" and that she had enjoyed it so much that she agreed not to complain any more. He's probably someone important there now.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  39. Re:Tainted evidence by tnk1 · · Score: 2

    You still need a chain of evidence. An officer needs to collect it at the scene and then log it and all the rest of that. There is probably supervisors involved as well as technicians.

    The chain is needed because, as we are aware, evidence can be easy to fake, so it needs to be strictly accounted for. There are also privacy requirements and constitutional requirements about where you can go getting that evidence. No prosecutor who has a good case will want to add evidence that distracts from the central issue, even if it helps his case. There is a cost-benefit ratio to consider.

    That said, they *may* be able to use it, but it might have been better to tell the cops where to go get it on their own, using a search warrant. Ultimately, the defense will try to challenge any and all evidence, if they can, even police provided evidence, it is just that it is much easier to show that there is accounting for police collected evidence.

  40. IANAL.... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    IANAL, but if Anonymous hacked into various computers to obtain the information, are prosecutors allowed to use it? It is my understanding that normally, investigators would obtain search warrants to legally get the information. I would hate to see the outcome of this case jeopardized because evidence was obtain illegally.

    While I believe, in this case, Anonymous, was trying to do the right thing, very often, in courts of law, doing the right thing can jeopardize a case because of rules of evidence, rights of victims and accused, etc. Hopefully, all of this will be resolved and justice will be done.

    1. Re:IANAL.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can field a case against anonymous and use the video as by-catch when they acquire it for the prosecution of anonymous. Also the prosecutors need to use more diligence than people giving them hints.

  41. Anonymous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anonymous

  42. In re: Admissibility in Court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if the evidence itself is not admissible in court, it still may be useful to obtain evidence that *is* admissible. Not all the evidence has to be used by the prosecutor.

  43. Re:Tainted evidence by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    In the process, Anonymous successfully managed to get the accused released by tainting the evidence. Congratulations, assholes.

    Sorry, no.

    For the same reason we rant against calling copyright violations "stealing", the fact that anonymous found it first doesn't have any impact on the admissibility of the evidence. The police, now that someone has shown them how to do their jobs, can go to the same "untainted" sources and obtain the same evidence with a clean chain of custody. Happy day!

    Evidence cannot be used anonymously in court, so unless whoever in Anonymous obtained the information comes forward and agrees to describe for the jury exactly how they obtained the information, it really cannot be used. It also has to be shown that the evidence was obtained legally. For instance, what if the police could not get a search warrant so they hacked the system to get the evidence and then said Anonymous did it? By not requiring the actual testimony of the person who obtained the evidence, all sorts of abuses could be perpetrated. As much as we may not like it, those rules protect the rest of us, too.

  44. reap is no joke! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These evildoers should spend the rest of their lives in a PMitA prison with Bubba for a cellmate.

    aspies : this post may contain hyperbole and/or irony.

  45. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Educate yourself:
    http://www.policemisconduct.net/

  46. I'm Sure the Local Popular Opinion on the Subject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    is that she was a drunk slut who got what she was asking for, and that boys will be boys, and that no crime was committed. I can't help but wish that I could change the whole relationship this culture has towards sex with a wave of a magic wand. Since I can't, I can only hope that a stand is taken here against men taking advantage of women who can't give consent, and that boys learn that sex isn't about what you can take from a woman, but what you can share together. And that when you rape an unconscious girl, you aren't sharing anything.

    Bravo Anonymous.

  47. This is bad for the case by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    IANAL, but everything I've read so far says that all this is going to do his hamper the investigation. Plus, some of the "evidence" has been presented in a false context. Had they provided the information discreetly to law enforcement instead of their usual public self-gratification, maybe this would have done some good.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:This is bad for the case by cusco · · Score: 2

      It's a small Midwestern town. Perpetrators include the prosecutor's kid. Had they provided the information discreetly to law enforcement the guys would have been grounded by their parents until the next football game, and the girl would have the word 'slut' burned into the lawn in front of her parents' house and been shunned until after she graduates and can move away. Until you've lived in one of these hell holes you really don't know what it's like.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  48. Re:Tainted evidence by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

    So can anonymous tips be used in investigation? How can it be known whether the information in a tip was collected legally if the police didn't collect it? And therefore how can any information discovered from following such a tip be allowed?

    Legally it doesn't matter. If I break into someone's house because I think they have a big ol' stash of kiddie porn and confirm my suspicious and take evidence to the police they can use that evidence in court and/or to get an actual search warrant. As long as the police aren't involved with my illegal evidence gathering in any way it is admissible. I might get charged with breaking and entering and trespassing, but the evidence is still allowed.

  49. Re:Tainted evidence by cusco · · Score: 2

    I live in Washington state. Open carry is legal.

    I work in physical security, and work with a number of police departments. I'm not pessimistic, just realistic. They work a ridiculous number of hours, they don't have time for both families and outside study to learn something as in-depth as computer forensics. By an large they don't have the interest, either. They didn't become cops to sit in front of a computer all day, they want to "get the bad guy." It's an interesting culture to observe from outside, but not one I'd like to be in.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  50. Re:Tainted evidence by cusco · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In a town like that no prosecutor will WANT to try that case, no matter if there is a mountain of unimpeachable evidence. None of the local judges are going to want to sit that case, either. The best result conceivable result in that little incestuous cesspit where everyone knows everyone is a hung jury, and they're not going to ask for a change of venue unless forced to do so. Hopefully this is enough of an embarrassment to force it.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  51. Re:Tainted evidence by cusco · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always shudder when I hear people say they're going to raise their kids in South Treestump because they want them to grow up with "small town values". Of course almost none of these people actually grew up in a small town (and the ones who did were from the upper class), or they'd know better.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  52. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worse than that. It's the old, "inadvertently deleted" excuse to provide some cover for the boys. If anyone else "inadvertently deleted" evidence, they'd be charged with tampering. In this case, it's, "Oh, well."

  53. Football as religion by tekrat · · Score: 1

    The problem we have is that football in america is a religion, it's bigger than Christianity -- football player are elevated to god status, and we cheer them on while we chug our beer.

    As a result, these high school jocks feel that they can get away with anything, because in this small-town America, places that Sarah Palin called "the REAL america", these football players are all the town has to cling to, so they are coddled, protected, insulated, and when a few of them do reach "pro" status, they will be the complete and utter pricks we expect them to be, beating their wives, crashing their cars, and carrying guns into their local bar, and arranging dog-fighting.

    So what if they raped some girls? They are football players. Yeah! America Number ONE!

    And the town is trying to cover the whole thing up because, well, they are football players. Yeah! America Number ONE!

    I'm freaking moving out of this god forsaken country.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Football as religion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you're not. You like it here, and you're comfortable, and you're going to stay right where you are and continue bitching while not lifting a finger to attempt any sort of change. Yes, I could tell that from your post. And yes, everyone else can too.

  54. Re:Tainted evidence by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

    It all depends. I grew up in a small town that didn't have much of a bullying or football hero complex, but we also had a lot of tourist traffic (typically the population at least doubled during the summer) so I think that outside influence and money pipeline had an effect on the personality of the town.

    --
    Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
  55. Re:Tainted evidence by flayzernax · · Score: 1

    AFAIK as I know it depends on if they claim the evidence is untampered with or not. They can submit it as circumstantial evidence, which in this case is still pretty damning. Nothing forbids them from nentioning that "Anonymous has gotten a film of these guys spewing the beans". Nothing stops them from actually calling anonymous on the stand and saying Hey, were you guys thorough, did you guys tamper with this evidence, whats the evidence about? Tell us.

    Of course a sitty judge could bar it all from the court.

  56. Update by fsterman · · Score: 2

    This needs an update to include the town sheriff's amazing press conference ("Anonymous, I am coming after you!") and Anonymous's response.

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
  57. Anonymous is a CIA PsyOp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You fools!

  58. Huge assumption by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    You're assuming the prosecutor *wants* to make this case, Not sure how far Stuebenville is from Canton (Football Hall of Fame), but the sport at all levels is rather sacrosanct in that state.

    1. Re:Huge assumption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming the prosecutor *wants* to make this case, Not sure how far Stuebenville is from Canton (Football Hall of Fame), but the sport at all levels is rather sacrosanct in that state.

      From what I can gather, the prosecutor's son is also on the football team with the suspects, and her home may have been the site of one of the alleged rapes. Eventually she stepped down and some special prosecutor or ADA was put in place, but I reckon the county DA still has some influence.

  59. Re:Tainted evidence by tnk1 · · Score: 1

    I won't say that public opinion can't have a positive effect, but that doesn't change the reality that this information does not come up to the standard of evidence, and there is a very good reason it does not.

    And as we know, public opinion can also get innocent people killed as well. There are pictures of well attended lynchings that show just how easily a public can be mobilized to railroad someone that they really want dead. We cannot applaud public opinion's effect in cases without acknowledging that it can be a two edged sword.

    Also, prosecutors may not want to try the case, but solutions for moving cases out of local jurisdictions have existed since medieval times. The state could very easily have picked up the case, as they have.

  60. But if Juian Assange rapes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    then Anonymous defends it!

    1. Re:But if Juian Assange rapes... by anotheryak · · Score: 2

      then Anonymous defends it!

      Exactly, if their leader and hero Assange does it, then it's not rape. After all, clearly those women are lying, or THEY DESERVED IT! He's Julian Assange for God's sake. They should be THRILLED that he was willing to date-rape them!

      Watch this get modded down by 14-year-old script kiddies.

    2. Re:But if Juian Assange rapes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, totally because not using a condom and forcing yourself onto someone that's passed out is totally the same thing? Right?

    3. Re:But if Juian Assange rapes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forcing yourself on someone who's expressed an unwillingness to have sex with you if you're not wearing a condom, and forcing yourself onto someone that's passed out is, in the eyes of the law, pretty much the same thing: forcing someone who is unwilling to or incapable of giving consent for that act is rape.

      Spend more than 5 minutes reading about the Assange case from a site other than "justice4assange," and you'll see that what Assange is accused of is not simply "not using a condom." Thanks for underscoring the point: "jocks" do it, Anonymous goes to war. "Assange" does it, Anonymous circles the wagon and attacks anybody who dares refuse to do business with or criticize their hero.

      Please, read the european arrest warrant, or the verdict handed down by the judge in UK who heard his extradition appeal. Read the first-hand documents, not just the idiotic, half-assed, year old google translations which they keep flogging despite repeated official statements explicitly detailing what he's accused of.

    4. Re:But if Juian Assange rapes... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1
      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:But if Juian Assange rapes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the same thing. The Assange case was weird from the beginning.

  61. Not sure why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the family of the girl who was raped hasn't made these kids swing in the wind yet.

    1. Re:Not sure why by anotheryak · · Score: 1

      the family of the girl who was raped hasn't made these kids swing in the wind yet.

      Perhaps they believe in justice and the rule of law, rather than going out and settling thing themselves vigilante-style? Some people are funny that way.

    2. Re:Not sure why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, let's see how far "rule of law" gets them towards justice. My guess is, in that community, not very far. If those kids get community service, I'll be surprised.

  62. Goose, Gander by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Guys go out to the bar to find drunk bitches to fuck. Guys arrange parties and tell their friends to find chicks to bring so they can get them drunk and fuck them. This is not what college kids do. This is not what teenagers do. Thirties, forties guys do this. It is common, consistent, continuous behavior. Most laymen don't register this as 'wrong' until somebody calls it rape. Hell even women don't really take much notice that they've been taken for a romp; they just wake up, ask where the hell they are, and try to find their way home without giving it much thought.

    You say this as if no woman has ever gotten a guy drunk to have sex with him. Or gotten a guy really drunk when he really wouldn't want to have sex with her. So how much time should these women be serving?

  63. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  64. That's calling for blood, not justice. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    While the death penalty cannot undo what was done to someone, we as a society can no longer continue to coddle people who refuse to live with the basic bounds of society.

    "Coddling" people like the Duke Lacrosse men, who were found innocent before they were sent to jail? How about the equally innocent Central Park Five - they would all be dead right now if the "eye for an eye" people had their way.

  65. I think the important lesson here is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I blame the media for encouraging such behaviour!

    Perhaps parent's should encourage kids not to drink until they pass out in front of other people who may or may not use that as an opportunity to harm them? Of course the girl is a victim, but over PC proselytizing seems to think that the victim plays no part in the event. Are the boys at fault for using her like a fingerpuppet? If they actually did what they are charged with, then yes. But this isn't a "she was asking for it" argument. The point is if you don't put yourself into potentially dangerous situations you won't groggily wake up to find some pimply faced cretin using you as a sockpuppet in his parent's basement.

    The take home from this whole thing is if you have daughters, lock them in the basement until they're 35. If you have sons, buy them a pair of chinese finger cuffs and whatever you do, don't parent your kids and instill any sense of decency in them or teach them to respect themselves and utilize common sense, because that would mean sky fairies and spaghetti wizards.

    1. Re:I think the important lesson here is... by DetriusXii · · Score: 1

      Fuck off. I mean seriously. You don't get to touch a woman's genitals when she passes out. That's rape. The victim plays no part in a rape and you're clearly trying to blame the victim. You're disgusting.

    2. Re:I think the important lesson here is... by neminem · · Score: 1

      Um... no. Are you trolling, or just stupid? If you leave expensive electronics visible inside your car, park your car at the curb in a busy metropolitan area, don't lock the doors, and leave for a few hours, you should not be surprised to find that your expensive electronics aren't there when you return. Did you do anything morally wrong? No. Are the thieves totally at fault for the theft? Legally, yes, but you're still an idiot if you think criminal behavior wasn't likely to be the outcome of that situation.

      There's a big difference between the usual retarded "she was asking for it by dressing that way" faux-argument, and getting blackout drunk at a party. Was this rape? Yes. Was she "to blame" for the behavior of other people? No, but if I had a daughter, I would still make sure they realized the harm that she would very likely be opening herself up to by getting riotously drunk in a situation like this. For that matter, I'd make sure any male offspring knew that too. It's not a question of who was to "blame", it's a question of protecting yourself.

  66. A confession... by kid who wasn't actually there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "confession" video has a boy saying "They raped her harder than that cop raped Marcellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction."

    You are aware that this is a "confession" made by a kid who wasn't actually there, right?

    http://www.wtov9.com/news/news/sheriff-anonymous-hacker-im-coming-after-you/nTnNX/

  67. Chain of custody [Re:Anonymous has become Batman.] by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

    The word you want is "chain of custody". But that isn't the case here, since it's not physical evidence.

    In any case it's irrelevant, since the prosecutor already had the videos that Anonymous released. What Anonymous did was to make them public. Whether it's a good thing to put videos of a purported rape out onto the internet is another discussion.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  68. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go look up the definition of heresay. Even if they have a video, it's FUCKING USELESS! idiot.

  69. Anonymous was a bit late [Re:Tainted evidence] by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When this story came out, the prosecutor told the press that they already had collected the video in question. And still hadn't charged anybody.

    Huh? didn't you read the NY Times article in the link? The two teenagers involved were arrested eight days after the incident was reported to the police, which is to say, four months before Anonymous got involved.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/high-school-football-rape-case-unfolds-online-and-divides-steubenville-ohio.html

    In other words, there's an untainted trail of the evidence, and the reason that Anonymous got involved at all is that they're trying to shame the prosecutor's office into doing something.

    If they're trying to shame the county prosecutor... they are about three months too late. The alleged rapists had already been arrested and charged, and the county prosecutor had already stepped down over possible conflict of interest and delegated the prosecution to the Ohio Attorney General's Office.

    As far as I can tell, "Anonymous" saw the New York Times article, said "ooh, there are probably some juicy photos in caches somewhere, maybe I can find them, and spread them over the net"-- but they didn't dig up anything that the police didn't already have, and it was hardly as if the matter was being ignored at the time, seeing as it was the subject of a two-page article in the New York Times.

    The prosecutor, you mean the mother of one of the kids on the football team? Hurray small town america.

    So, will she prosecute her sons' sociopathic friends and allow her snowflake to be shunned and bullied? Probably not.

    Since the county prosecutor stepped off the case three months before "Anonymous" got involved, I'm not sure it matters who she's related to.

    1. Re:Anonymous was a bit late [Re:Tainted evidence] by Altus · · Score: 1

      From the sounds of it, Anonymous is claiming that the evidence points to more than 2 teenagers being involved and that there are considerable accusations that many members of the football team were involved and have not been charged and possibly some adults, including the coach, have been complicit in the rape and the protection of certain teenagers who were involved.

      Now I haven't seen the evidence, but if only 2 teenagers have been charged when there is evidence that others are involved I can understand why they may have taken these steps. As was said upstream, the police already have the evidence but that doesn't mean that they are acting on all of it.

      Of course this could all be bullshit too, but pretending that the police and prosecutors are taking the proper action just because 2 teenagers are charged (in a GANG rape no less) is being a little naive. The idea that some limited number of students might take the fall for a crime while others would get away with it is not entirely a stretch of the imagination.

      Frankly I hope someone takes a closer look at it all as a result of this and makes sure that anyone involved is punished. Particularly anyone who helped took actions to protect the guilty.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  70. Re:Tainted evidence by Psyborgue · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't the video be heresay? And wouldn't an inconsistent statement have to be made by the same person speaking in the YouTube video. Provided the witness did testify, did contradict himself on the stand, and you could bring the video in, what's to stop the kids from simply arguing that they were bragging / joking in an inappropriate fashion? What if that's the truth. Is the girl even testifying? It doesn't seem the video helps you very much other than to make the witnesses (not even the defendants) look like assholes. I'm genuinely curious as to what you have to say. I've only been involved in civil cases.

  71. Re:Tainted evidence by Psyborgue · · Score: 1

    I just read the person who made the video wasn't even present at the scene of the events and was only relaying what others had said, so would't that be double heresay? As I understand it, that makes the video completely useless.

  72. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know nobody believes this - but the world really has come a long way since the 1970s. A *very* long way.

    The term 'date rape' didn't even exist then - rape was, pretty much exclusively, something done by strangers in dark alleys or burly thugs who broke into your home. It took *decades* of radical feminist campaigning to move attitudes to the point that we all (except in Ohio, evidently) take for granted today.

  73. Re:Tainted evidence by Cwix · · Score: 1

    Her son is one of the accused.

    She isnt pushing this because it could hurt her little angel.

    --
    You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
  74. There was no forcing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there had been, why did she leave the house, shop, come back, make breakfast and have ANOTHER go at sex, then over the next two or three days brag about the sex?

    And she STILL HERSELF says it wasn't rape.

    Ever thought that the reason why Assange is defended from accusations of rape IS BECAUSE HE'S INNOCENT?

    Whereas here we have people who are video'd doing it. At the moment, we can't fake video evidence that well, so it can't be made up (hence the chain of providence is invalid).

    Why is it you guys defend rape by Americans but will not condone any idea of innocence at the accusation of rape from a foreigner who doesn't like the USA much?

  75. Re:Tainted evidence by Sabriel · · Score: 1

    If you're not careful, you might also get charged with posession and/or planting the evidence in the first place (even if you didn't).

  76. I am Anonymous (Coward) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

    But trust me... You don't.

    I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you dont know what you are talking about.

    This is how bad info gets passed around.

    If you dont know about the topic....Dont make yourself sound like you do.

  77. Re:Tainted evidence by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Or the source that reports he wasn't present suspect of lying.

    I watched the video, halfway threw the rant someone off camera gets up to check on the girl (not being completely inhuman). Jackass mocks them for caring if she was alive or not. She is apparently nearby and still passed out.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  78. The Internet cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  79. Re:Tainted evidence by bogjobber · · Score: 1

    It depends on the town. I got both versions growing up. Two of the small towns I grew up in were hideous places, the other was a pretty nice place.

  80. Re:Tainted evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Post his name and the town, and someone will soon find out what he's up to nowadays.

  81. Re:Tainted evidence by xenobyte · · Score: 1

    But sadly most police forces are actually unwilling to gather such evidence,

    There. Fixed it for you.

    --
    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
  82. This is disgusting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it necessary for people to get prurient details about "exactly what happened"? It is totally unnecessary and revictimizes the survivor to print and publicize detailed descriptions like that. Sexual assault is horrific enough, and the public does not need to know details like this. The language they use is appalling. Using words like "slipped" sexualizes the crime and also minimizes what happened. The only people who need to hear descriptions like that are the judge and jury.

  83. Standing ovation for Anonymous! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I applaud Anonymous! The Ohio case made me physically sick. I wish there were something I could do besides just sign petitions. Like magical powers to stop people before they do horrible, horrible things.

  84. Re:Tainted evidence by flayzernax · · Score: 1

    Police are a deterrent and manpower. This would be a detectives job to follow up on.