Bill Gates Says Windows Phone Strategy Was Inadequate

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Bill Gates Says Windows Phone Strategy Was Inadequate

Posted by Unknown on Monday February 18, 2013 @12:47PM from the not-the-worst-thing dept.

puddingebola writes "Perhaps it isn't newsworthy, but Bill Gates has characterized Microsoft's mobile and smartphone strategies as 'a mistake.' From the article: 'In an interview with CBS This Morning's Charlie Rose on Monday, Gates admitted he wasn't pleased with Microsoft's performance in the mobile market, going as far as to characterize the company's smartphone strategy as "a mistake." "We didn't miss cell phones," Gates said. "But the way that we went about it didn't allow us to get the leadership, so it's clearly a mistake."'"

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Like... by pubwvj · 2013-02-18 12:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Duh.
1. Re:Like... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:07 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Everybody thinks Ballmer has dropped the ball. According to Joachim Kempin, it's more likely that he's dropped the bat.
  
  Steve Ballmer Roams The Halls Of Microsoft Swinging A Baseball Bat
  Microsoft's history is filled with stories about its rough culture, from it's "stack-ranking" employee reviews to how Bill Gates used to yell, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Here's another one: Six-foot-two Steve Ballmer sometimes brings a baseball bat with him into meetings, and that's if he's feeling happy...
  http://www.businessinsider.com/ballmer-roams-halls-with-baseball-bat-2013-2
2. Re:Like... by mrbluejello · 2013-02-18 15:04 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  This article title is WRONG. Windows Mobile had the problem, which is the predecessor to Windows Phone.
  Big difference, completely different platform.
3. Re:Like... by dhavleak · 2013-02-18 15:22 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Exactly correct -- but you're expecting too much of Slashdot, and too much of The Register.
  The exact quote from the interview is "Gates admitted the company didn't "get out in the lead very early" on cell phones. He said, "We didn't miss cell phones, but the way that we went about it didn't allow us to get the leadership. So it's clearly a mistake."
  i.e. He's saying they were there with Windows Mobile when the market was in it's infancy but Windows Mobile was clearly a mistake.
  But like I said -- you're on Slashdot. Don't expect logic to get in the way of an old-fashioned MS-bashfest.
4. Re:Like... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 16:00 · Score: 1
  
  Apparently, their Windows Phone strategy was to dick around for five years before getting their shit together and getting it out the door so I'd argue the title is spot-on. If you had ever used Windows Mobile you'd know it was so comically bad that it never could have been called a strategy.
5. Re:Like... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 16:17 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  and the way I read the bit about them not getting the leadership was that they were not able to control the market. So when since they got their DOS/Windows monopoly have they been able to get a leadership position outside of the Windows platform?
  Bill, you tried the tablet thing for 2 decades and failed. You tried the phone for a decade and failed. Bill and Steve's excellent adventure is over as you guys can no longer strong arm the industry like you seem to have strong armed your employees.
6. Re:Like... by symbolset · 2013-02-18 16:46 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  So you think that what he's saying here is that they WERE lagging, but now that they have a commanding 3% global mobile share he's happy they're taking their market leadership to the next level? How... interesting.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
7. Re:Like... by Nefarious+Wheel · 2013-02-18 17:28 · Score: 2
  
  Steve Ballmer Roams The Halls Of Microsoft Swinging A Baseball Bat
  Microsoft's history is filled with stories about its rough culture, from it's "stack-ranking" employee reviews to how Bill Gates used to yell, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Here's another one: Six-foot-two Steve Ballmer sometimes brings a baseball bat with him into meetings, and that's if he's feeling happy...
  At the risk of invoking a sort of inductive-Godwin here, wasn't that a trick Al Capone used to do?
  
  --
  Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
8. Re:Like... by mrbluejello · 2013-02-18 17:28 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Mobile was the problem. Windows Phone is the solution. iOS and Android had a blue ocean to deal with -- millions of users choosing their first smart phone. Windows Phone has the challenge of displacing established leaders, which is an expensive proposition.
  They did it with XBOX, and they will do it again with Windows Phone. They threw millions at XBOX and people laughed at them. Now they are the #1 console brand. Apple and Samsung are stronger competitors than Sony and Nintendo though. I think Microsoft should aim for 8-12% of the market. That is achievable, especially with their enterprise support and relationships.
9. Re:Like... by Nefarious+Wheel · 2013-02-18 17:33 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Their Windows Phone platform is good stuff -- the biggest problem with it is that it is late to the game.
  There's more to it than that. At least one of the few phone hardware platforms (cough*htc*cough) that ran Windows Mobile were not up to the task. Last company I worked for had about 600 of these in the field, and at any one time over a third were down for hardware faults. They just weren't really all that well-made or reliable. If our experience was similar to that of others', it wouldn't have been long before the platform was effectively abandoned. Word-of-mouth is exceptionally powerful in this connected age.
  
  --
  Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
10. Re:Like... by davester666 · 2013-02-18 17:49 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously the bat is to help inspire positive feedback.
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
11. Re:Like... by davester666 · 2013-02-18 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  The big question is why he didn't come up with this gem 5 seconds after Ballmer announced his "stay the course" strategy on the way to total market domination right after the iPhone was originally announced. Then again right after the 'slap a coat of paint on it and sell it again' strategy the next year [Win 6.5].
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
12. Re:Like... by symbolset · 2013-02-18 18:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Windows Phone is the solution.
  The solution to what problem? The problem as Microsoft sees it is that they're not selling mobile licenses and as we embrace the mobile future without them people - including important decision makers - are demanding cross-platform server side solutions and app interoperability to deliver business-critical line of business apps. That is a problem for Microsoft and nobody else. For the rest of us, the iPhone and Android and non-Microsoft solutions on the server side are solving this problem quite fine.
  Windows Phone might be a solution to this problem but it's a problem those of us who don't have a blue Microsoft badge don't have.
  BTW: they threw billions at XBox, not millions. They never did break even and now that it's time for another platform refresh they never will. All they did is cause stress for console vendors including Sony - who is also a Windows PC client partner.
  8-12% of the market is both unachievable and not worth trying for. It's niche. It has no leverage to control server side solutions, retailer shelf space, app developers, toolkit developers, carriers. 30% might give Microsoft the sway they need to succeed at acting how they're acting now: as the king of all they survey, shouting orders at a mass that is ignoring them - much like that dishevelled guy at the Greyhound station. It's telling that you think this is a height they might aspire to.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
13. Re:Like... by Tough+Love · 2013-02-18 18:18 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Steve Ballmer Roams The Halls Of Microsoft Swinging A Baseball Bat
  Microsoft's history is filled with stories about its rough culture, from it's "stack-ranking" employee reviews to how Bill Gates used to yell, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Here's another one: Six-foot-two Steve Ballmer sometimes brings a baseball bat with him into meetings, and that's if he's feeling happy...
  At the risk of invoking a sort of inductive-Godwin here, wasn't that a trick Al Capone used to do?
  Are you calling Bill Gates a thug? Good call.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
14. Re:Like... by wvmarle · 2013-02-18 18:18 · Score: 1
  
  The real arrogance is of course that he expects nothing more than being market leader.
  This alone is unrealistic. Of course it's a good target, but being happy with anything less is crazy. Now the point that they can't even be a good second or even a good third, that's the true tragedy for MS. Now Windows Mobile is virtually nothing compared to iOS and Android.
  And really I'd hope they can do better than this. Not because I like MS, but because I like more viable options in the marketplace. Competition keeps things moving, and two players is just not enough for healthy competition.
15. Re:Like... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2013-02-18 18:38 · Score: 2
  
  I can't believe that Microsoft didn't improve their mobile platform because they were afraid of hurting their own success. It was never a market leader. The market shrank rather than grew for a while. Blackberry, Symbian, even Sun ate their lunch long before Apple showed up. They just didn't care enough about the segment, and were too distracted by the longhorn/vista failure to pay much attention. And when they did react, they decided to purchase an inovative company (danger) who's creative genius had already moved on to the next big thing ( Andy Rubin creator of Android) used Sun's platform and forced them to create something ( the kin) on the terrible windows mobile platform.
  You give them way too much credit. They didn't think it was worth investing in. They were more interested in trying to create an ipod knockoff ( zune) than think about phones.
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
16. Re:Like... by mrbluejello · 2013-02-18 18:45 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft doesn't care much about mobile license revenue. They make more off of every Android phone (through patent royalties) that is sold than Windows Phone from a licensing standpoint. They are doing this to build an ecosystem and maintain relevance.
  The solution for people who aren't wearing a "blue Microsoft badge" is that Windows Phone provides a solution to the 31 flavors ecosystem mess that is Android, it has a simple and clean user interface that Steve Wozniac said must have been designed by ex-Apple employees and the ghost of Steve Jobs. It's new, not stale like iOS. It's simple with one page of scrolling icons that is consistent across manufacturers, not the 7 versions of Android that are in the field, all with lame customizations to the UI for OEMs attempting to stay relevant.
  XBOX is the largest console gaming brand there. It's not about a version of the console, it's about the brand. XBOX means entertainment, and its the brand that youth identify with. All their investment in the brand between XBOX and XBOX 360 will make XBOX 720 the market leader. Nintendo has become a niche. and Sony is struggling to keep their house in order. Nintendo is a great content company, and they've made some serious hardware innovation in the past, but Wii U fell on deaf ears. Not sure how they are going to navigate out of that. It's all about time horizon. Microsoft has the cash war chest to win the long, drawn out battles. They fight for 12 years to own the next 20 years of console gaming.
  As far as Sony goes, all of these big companies deal with coopetition because their lines of business are so diverse. They have different product divisions with faux "business firewalls" so that Samsung can sell Apple memory chips, but also sell Galaxy phones in an attempt to take away their market share. Those firewalls have varying levels of success, but the fact that Sony sells Windows PCs and Playstations has little to do with the overall relationships between the two companies; they cannot survive without each other in the big picture, so they accept it and move on. Even Apple does the same thing, as the iCloud is powered by Microsoft Windows Azure.
  If somebody the size of Google or Microsoft didn't exist, who could afford to be fighting Apple right now? Apple's price point is what opened the door for Google to walk in and fill the void. Apple values brand over product price, which maintains their brand value, but created market opportunity for somebody else. Had Apple found a way to address the low end, without cannibalizing their premium product and their brand, Google would be in a very different position. I say Google lightly, because Samsung is making more money off of Android than Google is. The term "Galaxy Phone" now applies generically to Android devices by consumers.
  8-12% is a 3rd place player in the market. They are not going to displace Apple, the Mac culture and brand is too strong. Android ecosystem is fragmented enough for Microsoft to make some gains there, but they are going to have a difficult time competing against Android being free for OEMs. There will always people who do not want to be Google's "product", and people who do not want to pay $30 for a $2 Lightening cable, people who don't want Apple's walled garden, and people who don't want the overly techie Android experience. For those people, Windows Phone makes a compelling alternative.
17. Re:Like... by rtfa-troll · 2013-02-18 18:57 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Firstly, you and he grandparent are simply lying. Bill neither mentioned Windows Mobile nor Windows Phone. He was talking about Microsoft's strategy in general. That would include both; otherwise he would say something like "I wasn't satisfied with Microsoft's mobile strategy but now Steve has fixed it and we have a good chance in future". Notice how, despite the total sales disaster, he's still pretending that Surface was a success. Any admission of failure that he makes leads to the immediate question "what are you doing to make sure they fix this".
  Secondly; this is not some innocent babe talking here. Before the chairman of Microsoft talks on any subject related to the company he will have been briefed and considered everything with both public relations advisers and lawyers. He didn't say this as an accidental candid gesture. He said this as a specific warning to a bunch of existing parters. No doubt Nokia and AT&T have been repeatedly warned in private that they aren't delivering what Microsoft wants. This is a very clear attempt to get the message out "Microsoft's strategy is failing; we are going to have to change it; partners we consider are in the way had better get out of the way". In other words; some time soon Nokia at least; AT&T probably are going to get fucked. If there was any different message then when the Register called them (which they always do) or immediately after the story was published there would have been a retraction or clarification. The Register's story is exactly the message Microsoft wants put out. The reason is to explain why they are about to screw over their partners yet again.
  
  --
  =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
18. Re:Like... by symbolset · 2013-02-18 19:14 · Score: 2
  
  Thank you. You have encapsulated in a single post why Microsoft is failing - while trying to defend their choices. That is a meta fail.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
19. Re:Like... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 19:22 · Score: 1
  
  Well, thankfully you've still got Series 40 and RIM/Blackberry there and coming down the pipe platforms built around Meego, Tizen, Firefox and Ubuntu. Looks like there are plenty of viable options and competition in the market, it's just that Microsoft may not be one of them.
20. Re:Like... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 20:27 · Score: 1
  
  Doesn't matter. They both suck.
  People have enough blue-screens on their computers, but feel they have no choice.
  People KNOW they have a choice for cellphones, due to the fact that iPhone and Android own over 90% of the market.
21. Re:Like... by DMiax · 2013-02-18 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Mobile had a larger marketshare than Windows Phone has now, so if WM was a problem WP is a disaster. Plus, where do you get he is talking specifically about Mobile? I don't see it in the linked article.
22. Re:Like... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 21:02 · Score: 1
  
  Seems a big diff:
  "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard" = Aspie Nerd ruling Nerds.
  
  Roaming a software company with a baseball bat = Jock ruling Nerds.
  
  Go figure.
23. Re:Like... by erroneus · 2013-02-18 22:32 · Score: 2
  
  I would agree with you on principle, but there are two problems with that notion:
  1. Different versions of MS Windows, though "completely different" are still marked by the same [often disappointing] user experiences and complaints.
  2. People, based on their experiences with MS Windows, are not willing to own a Windows phone or tablet (based on #1) so they will never see that one windows mobile experience is completely different from another which, ironically enough, makes their Windows mobile in-experience identical.
24. Re:Like... by Eirenarch · 2013-02-18 23:37 · Score: 1
  
  If you choose to ignore the fact that he says they did not miss you may in fact assume that he talks about Windows Mobile and Windows Phone but if you take into account the fact that he says they were in the smartphone market on time he may only be talking about Windows Mobile.
25. Re:Like... by Z00L00K · 2013-02-19 00:13 · Score: 1
  
  The old problems won't go away just because you release a new platform. Even if it's a completely different platform.
  Sometimes it's not the stuff you put into the pot that's the problem but the pot itself.
  
  --
  If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
26. Re:Like... by RaceProUK · 2013-02-19 00:34 · Score: 1
  
  Windows Mobile had a larger marketshare than Windows Phone has now
  It's easy to have a larger market share 7 years before the iPhone was released, when smartphones were only for the rich instead of commodity devices.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
27. Re:Like... by AlabamaCajun · 2013-02-19 01:53 · Score: 1
  
  But is was too late. That tiled look would have been great in 2000 but now it looks like bringing back VGA display "toobs", Balmer is doing more the send the company backwards.
28. Re:Like... by _anomaly_ · 2013-02-19 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  RTFL
  
  Ballmer isn't always so Robert-De-Niro-as-Al-Capone-in-the-Untouchables (remember that scene with the baseball bat?)
  
  --
  "I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
29. Re:Like... by Darby · 2013-02-19 04:28 · Score: 2
  
  XBOX is the largest console gaming brand there. It's not about a version of the console, it's about the brand. XBOX means entertainment, and its the brand that youth identify with. All their investment in the brand between XBOX and XBOX 360 will make XBOX 720 the market leader. Nintendo has become a niche. and Sony is struggling to keep their house in order.
  You're full of shit, shill.
  Xbox is not the leader it's in third place...out of three. That makes it last, not first.
30. Re:Like... by marcello_dl · 2013-02-19 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  >The real arrogance is of course that he expects nothing more than being market leader.
  >This alone is unrealistic.
  You mean, getting late to market with a "me too", unpolished product?
  That's exactly what happened with windows.
  MS is the company who sold an operating system to IBM!
  Of course they believe they can pull anything off. And in fact they can, nowadays. They just need to find some equally clueless managers on the other side of the market.
  
  --
  ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
31. Re:Like... by symbolset · 2013-02-19 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  If Microsoft's billions could make a compelling mobile product, it would have done so already.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
32. Re:Like... by Sulphur · 2013-02-19 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  Steve Ballmer Roams The Halls Of Microsoft Swinging A Baseball Bat
  Microsoft's history is filled with stories about its rough culture, from it's "stack-ranking" employee reviews to how Bill Gates used to yell, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." Here's another one: Six-foot-two Steve Ballmer sometimes brings a baseball bat with him into meetings, and that's if he's feeling happy...
  At the risk of invoking a sort of inductive-Godwin here, wasn't that a trick Al Capone used to do?
  No one thought of Al Capone as ineffective.
33. Re:Like... by default+luser · 2013-02-19 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  It's easy to have a larger market share 7 years before the iPhone was released, when smartphones were only for the rich instead of commodity devices.
  Actually, they're still devices for the rich. The only difference is now network providers will sell them to you for $100 down plus 24 easy payments of $69.99! And yes, you have to pay for an overpriced data pan!
  Anytime you introduce easy credit, you entice people to bite who don't really need something that expensive. High prices do not stop a deadbeat from driving a Lexus.
  Speaking of the iPhone, Steve Job's single biggest innovation in this market was convincing carriers to stop charging per-KB fees on data access (or dropping the cost of unlimited plans from the $50-60 range), with the hopes that they could make up for it by selling lots of expensive cell phones on layaway. It worked, and now that people are hooked most major carriers are locking things back down again.
  
  --
  Man is the animal that laughs.
  And occasionally whores for Karma.
34. Re:Like... by datavirtue · 2013-02-19 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's like you're yelling at the market to wise up. People simply are not as interested in Windows mobile as they are in Apple Mobile, period. Most people's exposure so far has been to Windows 8 preinstalled on a laptop and the subsequent frenzy to find someone who can change it to act like Windows 7. Great introduction to Metro, confusing the hell out of people and making their PC feel shitty and useless. I don't mind Metro on a tablet, but they fucked up the marketing on this one. Every day more and more people are getting a bad taste in their mouth after being presented with a Metro interface.
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
35. Re:Like... by wvmarle · 2013-02-19 14:07 · Score: 1
  
  At the time there was no competition, and the end users definitely had no idea on what is possible in this area. It was the managers they had to work with. And besides, DOS worked really well back in its day. At least it was stable and fast.
  The problem of "clueless managers on the other side" they solved already in the form of Nokia, which was not so long ago the undisputed market leader in mobile phones.
36. Re:Like... by wvmarle · 2013-02-19 18:17 · Score: 1
  
  Series 40 is not for smart phones.
  RIM is dying, and unless they have a serious turnaround soon they're not a serious player any more. They could have been a good partner for MS, as Blackberry is (or used to be) popular in the corporate mobile e-mail market. Excellent candidate to integrate tightly into Exchange.
  And the rest don't have the corporate power to get them actually used on the latest devices and sold in the shops.
37. Re:Like... by DMiax · 2013-02-21 08:00 · Score: 1
  
  The iPhone was released in 2007. Windows Mobile had above 12% market share in 2008, which is four times the current Windows Phone (a little below 3%).
38. Re:Like... by RaceProUK · 2013-02-21 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  And how many more iPhone exist now compared to 2008?
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Not news by ultrasawblade · 2013-02-18 12:55 · Score: 4, Insightful

I mean if the failing marketshare year on year since the iPhone came out didn't clue you in, maybe the KIN debacle would have, or certainly the fact that your marketshare is no better off despite practically owning a phone manufacturing company could point that out.
1. Re:Not news by Kjella · 2013-02-18 16:09 · Score: 1
  
  despite practically owning a phone manufacturing company
  And yet Nokia isn't head and shoulders above the other WP8 phones, here the Lumia 820 got weak reviews and they ended up recommending the HTC WP 8S instead if you wanted a WP8 phone in that price range, not that they found either of them hot (dice throw 3 and 4, respectively). I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia eventually gets the boot - or bought - and Microsoft goes solo like with their Surface tablets, right now Nokia isn't living up to their hardware reputation.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
2. Re:Not news by sd4f · 2013-02-18 18:43 · Score: 2
  
  I have a lumia 920, and hardware wise, it's brilliant. The problem is MS with the software, they need to start burning the midnight oil to get some features in. Very annoying that you can't download files off the internet, only photos, and from the email app, you can only attach photos, and the only other files you can attach, are office documents, which have to be opened in the office app and shared through there, one at a time.
  With the L920, i think nokia have pretty much done everything they can to make an excellent phone, the ball is solely in MS's court. I recommend my phone, but i do mention the limitations. I would like for WP to be inbetween ios and android, having the functionality of an android phone, but being on a closed platform, which may sound like sacrilege to /.ers, but i'm just looking for a phone that works well, isn't buggy, and especially, doesn't get plagued with malware, maybe i watch too much person of interest, but phones have cameras, gps, internet, private info, all that stuff which can potentially be very bad if malware gets on.
3. Re:Not news by sd4f · 2013-02-19 23:15 · Score: 1
  
  Well, i had an android phone, a samsung galaxy s, and it was a major piece of fail in terms of bugs, battery would often go flat, regularly in 6 hours when the phone is supposed to be sleeping, it would need a reboot almost daily but all it needed was clearly some unavailable software updates; and no, custom firmware isn't a feature for someone who just wants a phone to work, it's a major pain in the arse. I liked android for its functionality, it did behave like a pc, albeit annoying to use for any major things, like any phone, all due to limited input options and small screen size, but at the end of the day, i wanted a phone first and foremost, and for me, it quite comprehensively failed on that part. My one was unfortunately carrier locked as well, so it had a stack of bloatware, and even fewer updates. I had to learn the hard way, that unless you buy a google nexus phone, then forget about android.
  As for windows phone, the other sorts of files i'd like to be able to save is any audio, video, text files, and, if i can, use the storage on the phone, without having to connect to a computer and drag and drop. Basically, I should be able to download any file, even if it can't be used on the phone, i should be able to download any attachment, or upload any attachment, if i may need to send some sort of file, unusable on the phone, i should be able to; if i know i'm heading somewhere without internet access, but don't currently have a laptop, i should be able to use my phone instead, it's just that sort of functionality which, not often, but every now and again hobbles WP8 as a smart phone OS. Also, the third party office apps on android worked better than MS's own office app, it's going to need heaps of work; any functions beyond the most basic ones in excel, make a spreadsheet only viewable.
Uh huh... by scuzzlebutt · 2013-02-18 12:56 · Score: 1

What did they have? 4,5 years to get the smartphone right before BB or iOS? Fail.

--
In C++, your friends can see your privates.
1. Re:Uh huh... by MightyMartian · 2013-02-18 13:18 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  They've had sixteen or seventeen years to get the various iterations of MSN right, and after billions of dollars have still failed to show much for it. Sure, they've turned Yahoo from competitor into customer, but Google is so far ahead one has to question Microsoft's long term strategic capacity. Even the XBox division, while perhaps having some quarters in the black, is still a big hole that Microsoft shoveled money into to buy market share, and is many years away from ever paying back its investment.
  Microsoft has three major profit areas; enterprise volume licensing, OEM consumer licensing and Exchange-Office. It has made a shitload of money off of them, and while it's likely to lose the consumer crown pretty soon as the home PC begins to fade as a must-have computer product, it will still have the enterprise world locked up for some time to come.
  Frankly I think they should admit defeat on their mobile and tablet offerings, buy Blackberry, which at least still has some corporate penetration, and tighten the links between those mobile products and Office-Exchange. RT and Surface are still demonstrating just how much Microsoft is on the wrong side of the door trying to get in.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
2. Re:Uh huh... by Teresita · 2013-02-18 13:59 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Frankly I think they should admit defeat on their mobile and tablet offerings, buy Blackberry, which at least still has some corporate penetration, and tighten the links between those mobile products and Office-Exchange. RT and Surface are still demonstrating just how much Microsoft is on the wrong side of the door trying to get in.
  
  Microsoft is always a day late and a dollar short. They're just getting Bing together when Search is yesterday. By the time they put out a decent smartphone, in 2017, everyone will say that's so five years ago because the Samsung Shirtbutton will be uploading everything a user sees and does, real time to Facebook and Google Goggles will be all the rage for web content delivery.
3. Re:Uh huh... by amiga3D · 2013-02-18 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  They are more interested in making money than making great products. I don't see where they have any love or passion for the things they make.
4. Re:Uh huh... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 15:40 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I suspect their R&D department has all kinds of enthusiasm... right before the bean counters have their good shit shelved. It's a miracle the Kinect made it out the doors, and even then, they let a surprise HW hit collect dust.
  Remember the Courier? That thing would've been great, and they had a prototype ready before the iPad's dropped. Can you remember people actively petitioning for a microsoft product with "goddamnyou, here, take my money!"? Yeah, they let that die.
  Multitouch? They had that in the original surface, the table not that tablet, before the iPhone existed. Died.
  That place needs to start loping off heads, starting at the top.
5. Re:Uh huh... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 16:08 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's a miracle the Kinect made it out the doors, and even then, they let a surprise HW hit collect dust.
  The kinect (hardware, the device itself) did not really come from Microsoft's R&D.
  From:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinect
  
  Kinect builds on software technology developed internally by Rare, a subsidiary of Microsoft Game Studios owned by Microsoft, and on range camera technology by Israeli developer PrimeSense, which developed a system that can interpret specific gestures, making completely hands-free control of electronic devices possible by using an infrared projector and camera and a special microchip to track the movement of objects and individuals in three dimension.
6. Re:Uh huh... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 16:33 · Score: 1
  
  Courier was a nice concept but having to run Windows meant it was either going to be too heavy from battery size, and huge, or it was only going to have a couple hours of battery life. Remember, they've only now have part of the desktop Windows OS running on ARM and how many years back was Courier?
  Their problem is that for almost 30 years they have been able to ride on the coat tails of Windows(and DOS) and so every hardware product has to run it and/or be tied to it.
  And multi-touch surface was based on cameras and a projector and not a capacitive touch screen. And they didn't invent that tech either, they just poured man hours into software for the hardware because it looked great in demo's.
  So there are reasons why lots of that stuff went nowhere but probably not the reasons you're thinking.
7. Re:Uh huh... by symbolset · 2013-02-18 17:28 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  The purpose of Microsoft Research is to patent every possible thing so nobody else can use it. Not to come up with some new compelling thing. It's about controlling innovation, not creating it.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
8. Re:Uh huh... by Nefarious+Wheel · 2013-02-18 17:35 · Score: 1
  
  In technology, a strategy of "lets play chase" seldom works, unless you have a lot of money to throw away to ...
  oh, hang on...
  
  --
  Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
9. Re:Uh huh... by sootman · 2013-02-19 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  > Multitouch? They had that in the original surface, the
  > table not that tablet, before the iPhone existed.
  From Wikipedia:
  "[Steve] Jobs unveiled the iPhone to the public on January 9, 2007"
  "Microsoft Surface... was announced on May 29, 2007 at the D5 Conference."
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PixelSense
  
  --
  Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
10. Re:Uh huh... by quacking+duck · 2013-02-19 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  Multitouch? They had that in the original surface, the table not that tablet, before the iPhone existed. Died.
  The rest of your points are valid, but your history here is wrong. The iPhone "existed" to the public before the Surface table, not the other way around.
  Per wikipedia, Surface (PixelSense) 1.0 was announced to the public May 29, 2007, and shipped April 17, 2008.
  First iPhone was announced to the public January 9, 2007, and shipped June 29 the same year--ten months before the Surface Table did.
  There's vague mention of it being demoed in 2006 at a Microsoft company meeting in Quest Stadium, but that means nothing because it wasn't public knowledge at the time. The iPhone was most definitely being tested and demoed internally in 2006, too, just to a much smaller audience.
  There's also absolutely no mention of it in another employee's post-meeting blog post, so either this reinforces the strictly internal-only nature of the unveiling... or suggests that the first story's account of the 2006 unveiling is false.
11. Re:Uh huh... by wiredlogic · 2013-02-19 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  Courier could have been implemented on top of the WinCE kernel. Which incidentally had ARM support since 2.0 (1997).
  The NT kernel is imminently portable. The tricky bits are the hardware drivers. MS never had an impetus to bring the an ARM implementation to market before RT but they would have certainly had a basic internal build for testing and research.
  
  --
  I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 12:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

Considering the lead Microsoft had in the mobile phone market, they were there in 2002 (before Blackberry, I believe), but somehow they never made it work. I'm not sure exactly why. It's actually surprising, not that they failed, but how big their failure actually is.

They knew it was important, they tried to get the market, had a huge lead, and they failed. It's a little more than 'inadequate.'

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
1. Re:big by Howitzer86 · 2013-02-18 13:11 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Anyone with a WinMo phone will tell you one of the biggest problems with them is the difficulty in finding apps that actually work. They would have an app store for it towards the end, but by then it was too late.
  My last phone was an HTC Touch Pro 2. In 2009 it was billed as an iPhone killer. Seems laughable in hindsight (and I'm not an Apple fanatic either, I'm a "M$ shill" according to some slashdotters.)
2. Re:big by Billly+Gates · 2013-02-18 13:17 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Apple finally beat them.
  If it were not for IBM and only corps and engineers buying computers in the 1980s the Mac would have one easily. Most hipsters then did not care about computers at all and Bill got used to having a monopoly handed to him on a silver platter. It bit him in the ass later on.
  MS is very project manager dominated. I DON"T CARE SHIP IT ... attitude. There was no desire at all to ask why? Or what do people want? No thinner, save battery power, make it pretty, make the UI very geared toward mobile uses with research and usability studies to go with it. Just regular Xp with a pen and call it tablet edition in cheap plastic. Phones? Throw the start menu and put some win16 code to save development costs and put in crippled pocket editions and call it the day. Just get it out etc.
  Meanwhile Samsung is developing bendable glass while Apple and others are making exotic metals for their cases and special types of glass, custom arms for low power, and even API rewrites to lower power as well. Apple and Google make sure everyhing is pretty and icons and apps all twirl when you use it. Even the DPI is supperior than your desktop computer!
  MS is is just throw in a cheap battery with a $1.00 plastic mold in China and call it portable with digitizer. Windows 8 is finally getting things write ... only on the mobile end. But man it is so 2008 era right now. Windows 9 will need much catching up. Same is true with IE. They let that one rotted out until they got their ass handed to them by Mozilla and now Webkit. They are catching up but they have a long way to go.
  This comes to show you that being proactice and making the best product really does win in the end. Not being reactive.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
3. Re:big by Gothmolly · 2013-02-18 13:18 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Nobody wants their phone to be as reliable as Windows. They want it to work 24x7x365. When was the last time it was "ok" to have to reboot your phone. Microsoft makes neat toys and cheap PC software - but reliable and "applicance-like" in a way that a Mac or DVD player or a toaster is - they are not.
  It's kind of like why nobody buys the Chevy Volt - it's a $40k Chevy econobox. Chevy != high tech quality, that's what Toyota is for.
  
  --
  I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
4. Re:big by Pausanias · 2013-02-18 13:19 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's Windows. Everything had to be windows. They stuck to windows until the gamechangers (iPhone, Android) had market dominance... now is a little too late to switch everything over to Metro.
  The problem is, you can't just always be reactive. You have to lead at some point, with real innovation. And this company has simply never done that.
5. Re:big by Teresita · 2013-02-18 13:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's Windows. Everything had to be windows. They stuck to windows until the gamechangers (iPhone, Android) had market dominance... now is a little too late to switch everything over to Metro.
  
  When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If Microsoft was a bit smaller, like Adobe, and only had Word going for them, they'd push out a Word Phone. Sell Word Tablets. Get Marky Mark to do their commercials, say, "Word Up."
6. Re:big by ozmanjusri · 2013-02-18 13:25 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Anyone with a WinMo phone will tell you one of the biggest problems with them is the difficulty in finding apps that actually work.
  I developed apps for Windows Mobile, and I can tell you that the biggest problem was getting a phone/OS that would actually work.
  They were uniformly terrible, unreliable as phones and inconsistent and hard to understand as PDAs. You couldn't even rely on them as alarm clocks, given their propensity to hang and/or crash.
  
  --
  "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
7. Re:big by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:26 · Score: 1
  
  I'm still using the Touch Pro 2.... I stripped off all of the OEM crap and the basic WM6.5 OS is really great... As far as the missing apps... I write my own,. Windows Mobile's Win32 API is easy to code. It is just like the Win32 desktop. I'm still trying to figure out why MS decided to destroy such a consistent programming environment. I'm thinking Balmer only sees $$$ instead of understanding the needs of his customers and developers.
8. Re:big by DanFelixPierce · 2013-02-18 13:30 · Score: 2
  
  I had figured that Microsoft had the mobile market locked up when Palm started shipping Treo phones with Windows mobile on them. What killed them is the internet. A platform that they didn't control but that everyone had access to. Google killed them on search and web based e-mail and Apple killed them on hardware that made accessing the internet easy.
9. Re:big by 10101001+10101001 · 2013-02-18 13:30 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Considering the lead Microsoft had in the mobile phone market, they were there in 2002 (before Blackberry, I believe), but somehow they never made it work. I'm not sure exactly why. It's actually surprising, not that they failed, but how big their failure actually is.
  They knew it was important, they tried to get the market, had a huge lead, and they failed. It's a little more than 'inadequate.'
  
  To me, it's not really surprising at all. It's the same reason planned economies fail. A wholly top-down approach fails a lot of the time. The sad part, from MS's perspective, should be not realizing where they could utilize their monopoly to extend into safer arenas with clear pathways that top-down market acquisition could be achieved. But, then, MS's movement into mobile phones was presumably precipitated by fear--ie, they did get the top-down view right that smart phones would be a major player in the future*. Fear is a great way to waste money and market share.
  *Then again, MS has thrown money at all sorts of ventures that may, in the future, be a major player. And only later, when the technology developed, was the market realized and by then MS had missed the boat. Meanwhile, its repeated attempts to leverage its "gems"--Windows and/or Office--have generally failed. Perhaps that's the real reason I'm not surprised that MS has yet another failure. Of course, most ventures in business are failures. It's just that most ventures that fail big close because they don't have tons of money behind them. Oh, and this applies just as much to Google, Apple, etc.
  
  --
  Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
10. Re:big by chronokitsune3233 · 2013-02-18 13:33 · Score: 1
  
  I'd attribute it to the lack of competition personally. The closest thing to Windows Mobile phones were PDAs if I recall correctly, but PDAs aren't phones. It was like the Tablet PC running Windows XP -- unneeded at the time and perhaps even poorly marketed (how exactly does one market the need for a PC in your hand when a laptop works just as well and is arguably more durable?) Back then, Microsoft controlled most of the PC market, so there wasn't any need for heavy marketing, I suppose.
  
  --
  I have been a captive in America my entire life. Everybody and everything uses customary units instead of metric.
11. Re:big by NeedMyFix · 2013-02-18 13:55 · Score: 1
  
  >Windows Mobile's Win32 API is easy to code. It is just like the Win32 desktop. Except it isn't. I tried for quit some time to port several desktop apps to WM6.5 and although I could use the same programming language and API a lot of the system calls didn't exist. I lot of networking functions were missing, a lot of encryption functions were missing, the phone OS was just too cut back.
12. Re:big by jd2112 · 2013-02-18 13:56 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Anyone with a WinMo phone will tell you one of the biggest problems with them is the difficulty in finding apps that actually work.
  I developed apps for Windows Mobile, and I can tell you that the biggest problem was getting a phone/OS that would actually work.
  They were uniformly terrible, unreliable as phones and inconsistent and hard to understand as PDAs. You couldn't even rely on them as alarm clocks, given their propensity to hang and/or crash.
  Not true. One of my co-workers has an old Windows phone. It works great and he had no problem getting apps for it.
  (He rooted it and somehow hacked it to run Android.)
  
  --
  Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
13. Re:big by Swampash · 2013-02-18 13:56 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Considering the lead Microsoft had in the mobile phone market, they were there in 2002 (before Blackberry, I believe), but somehow they never made it work.
  Because Microsoft has no taste. It can't design for shit, and it never could. Thus we now have a situation where, in spite of Microsoft being "there in 2002", the iPhone business unit at Apple generates more revenue than Microsoft. Not the Windows Phone business unit - the entirety of Microsoft.
14. Re:big by UnknowingFool · 2013-02-18 14:06 · Score: 1
  
  The problem was that MS was targeting the wrong market. MS has made their biggest gains in the enterprise market first then consumer later. For PCs most consumers don't have a choice but Windows. Unless they got a Mac. With the mobile phone market, MS was always targeting enterprises and competing with RIM. Maybe they thought the same thing would happen again they would get some traction in the consumer market but Apple beat them to it. Apple never compete directly with RIM or MS as they targeted the consumer smart phone market exclusively. The iPhone has enough features to use in the enterprise but that's not they where they made their mark.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
15. Re:big by OhANameWhatName · 2013-02-18 14:23 · Score: 2
  
  The problem is, you can't just always be reactive
  You're so wrong. In fact, I will predict right now that Microsoft will continue to always be reactive.
16. Re:big by Howitzer86 · 2013-02-18 14:28 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, he's right. I remember lots of crashes.
  Even XDAndroid was unstable, and generally unfinished, so really there was no escape. It once completely drained my battery, and that's not something you wanted to happen on that phone. Windows looked out for it and would shut you down in advance. The reason being... if you let the battery drain completely, it would not power up even under outlet power. I had to use the battery from my older HTC Dash, tear off a small tab, and hold it in the battery compartment of the TP2 just long enough to power up and switch to the outlet. Them I could insert the real battery again and let it charge.
  Very scary.
17. Re:big by Howitzer86 · 2013-02-18 14:31 · Score: 1
  
  I should mention that it wouldn't charge either. Once the battery was gone, it is gone. And as far as I knew, it could only happen with XDAndroid. I stopped using it after that, and soon got another phone.
18. Re:big by sir-gold · 2013-02-18 14:33 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's Windows. Everything had to be windows.
  This is probably the most important cause of microsoft's gradual downfall over the last 10-12 years. With each of their attempts to build a music player, an ebook reader, or a phone, every time an engineer would show his prototype to a manager, the first thing that manager would say is "thats neat, but how does it relate to windows?"
  Microsoft is a company that has poured billions into researching product diversification, while still possessing a complete unwillingness to actually diversify. It's kinda like a fat guy who buys all the Weight Watchers meals every week, but lets it all spoil and go to waste because he would rather eat delivery pizza and chinese takeout instead.
19. Re:big by cheater512 · 2013-02-18 14:41 · Score: 1
  
  Well yeah the hardware is probably fine. My Microsoft keyboard and mouse work great too.
  Provided you keep Windows away from it of course. :)
20. Re:big by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 14:52 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Anyone with a WinMo phone will tell you one of the biggest problems with them is the difficulty in finding apps that actually work. They would have an app store for it towards the end, but by then it was too late.
  I still have a winmo phone and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Do I miss not being able to run angry birds and facebook apps? I couldn't give a shit less.
  I can connection share, vpn, voice command, offline navigate, sd cards, manage files, sync contacts and crap that WP8 still can't do to this day.
  What I would not give for a modern mobile OS that was either not a locked down vendor orgy of control or didn't invade your privacy at every possible turn. The mobile space is a fucking joke so I'll keep my old joke of a winmo phone and like it.
21. Re:big by gorfie · 2013-02-18 14:58 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I have a Lumia 900 (after owning a Captivate/Galaxy) and I haven't had any problems with the apps. Some of the apps are significantly better than the Android counterparts in terms of polish and reliability. I know the marketplace isn't as mature as iPhone/Android but it's not dismal either. My "biggest" problem with the Lumia 900? I'd say it's that I paid $100 for it a month before they knocked it down to $50.
22. Re:big by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 15:04 · Score: 1
  
  " Windows 8 is finally getting things write..."
  Actually I've been playing with a friend's surface running W8, and I haven't yet found how to open WordPad.
23. Re:big by Miamicanes · 2013-02-18 15:30 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  ^^^ What killed them was themselves, when Microsoft literally abandoned it when it was finally becoming good.
  WinMo 6.5 was fine... as a pocket laptop & PDA with built-in wireless data.It was utterly dysfunctional for making voice calls, but that was just the deal those of us who used it made with the devil. Given a month or two of hardcore tweaking & thirdparty enhancements, it blew away both iPhone AND the first year or two of Android.
  Really, 90% of its real-world usability problems were caused by HTC's last-minute ill-conceived decision to eliminate the menu & ok hard buttons from most of their phones around 2008 (which caused endless misery when a missed call or unnoticed text msg activated the touchscreen in your pocket).
  If Microsoft had made "phone" just another app with first-class API support (allowing thirdparty phone apps instead of treating "phone app" as HTC's private domain), and rolled out an open, Android-like app market, they would have been a strong force keeping the fire lit under Google's feet. They would have absolutely lost marketSHARE to Android (& iOS), but would probably have twice as many users today as they had in 2008 (due to the market itself growing).
  WinMo wasn't "open" in the purest Android sense, but with a few improvements to strengthen its API for "phone" apps, it would have been more de-facto open & hackable by end users than a non-rooted Android phone is today.
24. Re:big by sjames · 2013-02-18 15:41 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  There is the big point. MS got in on the OS primarily because they were the only real choice for the PC when it came out and had a few years to get entrenched. They got Office in the door through their lock on the O/S.
  They haven't been able to get anywhere since because they aren't the only option. Nobody will put up with their general klunkiness, gaping holes, and crashiness.
  MS won't likely succeed like that again. They would have to get in first, ride on the coattails of a well respected entity in the market like IBM was to business in the '80s. It would have to be a product that most people wrote off as a mere toy for the first several years. And the killer for them, they would have to be a nobody so that their involvement wouldn't attract more technically capable and equally well funded competition.
  They got a once in several lifetimes opportunity and made the very most of it, but it won't likely happen again.
25. Re:big by DogDude · 2013-02-18 15:48 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Nobody wants their phone to be as reliable as Windows. They want it to work 24x7x365
  
  Welcome to 2013! You must be a time traveler from the late 1990's! Today, Windows is very stable, as is their phones. In the off chance that you're not a time traveler, you should consider working on your trolling skills.
  
  --
  I don't respond to AC's.
26. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 16:11 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know, they've done ok with the xbox. You'd think they could do at least as well with a phone as they did with the xbox.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
27. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 16:12 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe; WP7 does look good though. It was definitely ahead of Android as far as design goes.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
28. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 16:15 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting point.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
29. Re:big by localtoast · 2013-02-18 16:20 · Score: 1
  
  What reliability? I had to reboot my iPhone 3G more often than my WP7. Cite sources measuring reliability of WP7 or 8 compared to iOS or STFU.
30. Re:big by SuperKendall · 2013-02-18 16:27 · Score: 1
  
  What I would not give for a modern mobile OS that was either not a locked down vendor orgy of control
  Buy an iPhone and jailbreak. Best of both worlds, and you have ultimate control over everything.
  
  --
  "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
31. Re:big by tibman · 2013-02-18 16:43 · Score: 1
  
  I still have an old win phone (6.2, from 6.1). It does not crash but it can be sluggish or become unresponsive for a few seconds (an eternity on a phone). The apps always sucked and were not cheap. I swear there was no more than 100 in the market. Which by the way gives a 404 now, lol. Still enjoy the phone though. Email and texting with a qwerty is nice and the battery will last 5-6 days on a charge (old ass battery too).
  I have a sexy Nexus 7 and really enjoy android but will likely keep the winmo for a while longer.
  
  --
  http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
32. Re:big by sjames · 2013-02-18 17:12 · Score: 1
  
  They've done OK with the Xbox, but just OK. Notably, the Xbox division reported a loss last quarter.
33. Re:big by symbolset · 2013-02-18 17:31 · Score: 1
  
  Were? They're still selling them. We could ask today's buyer about their experience.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
34. Re:big by symbolset · 2013-02-18 17:36 · Score: 1
  
  In Android you can get a barcode scanner software keyboard. It uses the camera. With this I scan barcodes into anything that takes text input including data capture websites and spreadsheets.
  I don't think barcode scanning is the WinMo killer app. Can it even do QR codes?
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
35. Re:big by DanFelixPierce · 2013-02-18 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  In the quarter ending Dec. 31 2012, the Entertainment and Devices division made $597 million on $3.7 billion of revenue. Not a loss but not exactly a huge money maker. Given that from 2004-2007 they lost about $4.8 billion and only started to turn a profit in 2008, at the end of FY 2012 they were still $1.9 billion in the hole.
36. Re:big by symbolset · 2013-02-18 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  No.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
37. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, lol. Starting with the ugly Android phones, going on to the unsmooth scrolling, on to the lack of a uniform design scheme, Android was much uglier than WP7 when it first came out.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
38. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 18:11 · Score: 1
  
  FYI, the Entertainment and Devices division is more than just the Xbox. If anyone quotes numbers from that division and try to tell you that it represents Microsoft's xbox sales, then they are either ignorant or trying to deceive you.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
39. Re:big by rtb61 · 2013-02-18 18:21 · Score: 2
  
  Of course nothing will change while the current management is in place. Arrogance, petty vindictiveness have created a creativity chilling environment. M$ can either drop it's management and buy a new direction or just slowly but surely die off.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
40. Re:big by jones_supa · 2013-02-18 18:23 · Score: 2
  
  Nobody wants their phone to be as reliable as Windows. They want it to work 24x7x365.
  What's that? Windows is essentially fully stable.
41. Re:big by symbolset · 2013-02-18 18:25 · Score: 1
  
  I think ISVs are on to their "culling" scheme, and eager for a level field.
  
  --
  Help stamp out iliturcy.
42. Re:big by Tough+Love · 2013-02-18 18:26 · Score: 2
  
  Nobody wants their phone to be as reliable as Windows. They want it to work 24x7x365
  Welcome to 2013! You must be a time traveler from the late 1990's! Today, Windows is very stable, as is their phones.
  No, wrong, Windows is still not stable. It doesn't actually blue screen all the time like it used to, but it does plenty of really strange, inexplicable things, and it's so crappy at managing resources that it has long been standard corporate policy to reboot all windows machines regularly.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
43. Re:big by jader3rd · 2013-02-18 18:58 · Score: 1
  
  Considering the lead Microsoft had in the mobile phone market, they were there in 2002 (before Blackberry, I believe), but somehow they never made it work. I'm not sure exactly why.
  The reason is because Microsoft fears breaking backwards compatibility. Once the first third party app was written for Windows Mobile it guaranteed lock in to a certain paradigm. So even though a lot of technology advanced, MS was still unwilling to make any breaking changes for fear that they might loose a customer, because one app wouldn't work anymore. It took getting wiped by Apple, and a change in leadership team to tell the existing Windows Mobile team that what they've been working on is wrong and they needed to start from a clean slate.
44. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 19:07 · Score: 1
  
  They definitely didn't need to break backwards compatibility to create WP7, because WP7 was built on WinCE, so that's not the reason. Not only that, breaking backwards compatibility is a bad thing, not a feature.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
45. Re:big by sjames · 2013-02-18 19:10 · Score: 1
  
  That's a good point. The entertainment and devices division turned a modest profit but Xbox itself was in the hole.
  GP is correct that in sum total, Xbox has been and remains in the hole.
46. Re:big by phantomfive · 2013-02-18 19:17 · Score: 1
  
  My coworker once mentioned to me that the ED division was losing money until the put sales for the Macintosh into that division, then it turned a profit. I haven't checked the historical records to see if that's true, but sales for the Macintosh do seem to be in that division.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
47. Re:big by l0ungeb0y · 2013-02-18 20:09 · Score: 1
  
  You couldn't even rely on them as alarm clocks, given their propensity to hang and/or crash.
  I'll be sure to remind my iPhone of that reality first thing tomorrow when it diligently wakes me at 7:30am against my wishes, but in accordance to my command -- as it and it's predecessors have seemed to have done this without fail over the last several years.
48. Re:big by dunkelfalke · 2013-02-18 21:58 · Score: 1
  
  I also developed for Windows Mobile and was generally fine with the newer WM versions - after the utter crap that was WM5.
  The only reason I put Android on my WM phone was that WM was not very comfortable to use with a capacitive touch screen.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
49. Re:big by sensationull · 2013-02-18 22:21 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed, I held out a long time before giving up my WM6 phone. Got a 7.8 which is much smoother, doesn't upload my contacts at every opportunity (Android and Apple) but is still not a patch on the WM6. Have tried Android (crash fest, personal experience), and used Apple once or twice but they are a horrible knowledge destroying company.
50. Re:big by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 22:43 · Score: 1
  
  Man, we are talking about the age of Windows Mobile when not even the iPhone/Android platforms existed. This is Windows Mobile CE. You are too young, please come back in a few years when you have learned history.
51. Re:big by LinuxIsGarbage · 2013-02-18 23:00 · Score: 1
  
  You couldn't even rely on them as alarm clocks, given their propensity to hang and/or crash.
  I'll be sure to remind my iPhone of that reality first thing tomorrow when it diligently wakes me at 7:30am against my wishes, but in accordance to my command -- as it and it's predecessors have seemed to have done this without fail over the last several years.
  Except if Daylight Saving time is changing: http://osxdaily.com/2010/11/06/the-iphone-daylight-savings-time-alarm-bug-and-how-to-fix-it/
  Or if it's 2011 http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/01/02/0225235/iphone-alarms-hit-by-new-years-bug
52. Re:big by peragrin · 2013-02-18 23:46 · Score: 1
  
  well that explains FOSS'S love of EMACS.
  now they have an actual text editor in emacs someone ported vi into emacs.
  
  --
  i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
53. Re:big by Teckla · 2013-02-19 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  If it were not for IBM and only corps and engineers buying computers in the 1980s the Mac would have one [sic] easily.
  Wow, that is so just, incredibly wrong.
  Macs were expensive, like real expensive. With the margins Apple insisted on, they practically guaranteed the Mac would not become the dominant platform.
  There was solid competition from companies like Commodore and Atari. If the IBM PC had never existed, there's no telling where computing would have went in the 80s and 90s.
54. Re:big by NJRoadfan · 2013-02-19 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  Yes it can do QR Codes, the Samsung Omnia came with an app that supported them. The bigger problem I had with that phone was digitizer "drift". Any touch screen input was registered as happening a few mm to the right of where I touched. This made it impossible to use the on-screen keyboard and no amount of calibration would fix it. The only solution was to replace the digitizer.... I replaced the phone instead.
55. Re:big by Agent0013 · 2013-02-19 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  If Microsoft had made "phone" just another app with first-class API support (allowing thirdparty phone apps instead of treating "phone app" as HTC's private domain), and rolled out an open, Android-like app market, they would have been a strong force keeping the fire lit under Google's feet.
  
  That's just the problem that Microsoft faces. Even if someone who was rather involved with Microsoft in the day now recognizes they failed to take over mobile, it is not possible for them to do anything differently. You say "if only they rolled out an open market", which is not something they would ever have been capable of doing. Their "drink-the-coolaid" culture locks them into behaving in a certain way. It is not possible for Microsoft as an organization to behave differently until they fix some of their larger culture issues. They will continue to see market after market slip through their fingers because they are stuck in an old paradigm that doesn't apply to what people want.
  
  --
  
  -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
56. Re:big by jader3rd · 2013-02-19 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  breaking backwards compatibility is a bad thing, not a feature.
  Most of the time I agree; but sometimes it gets you stuck in a rut that you can't escape.
57. Re:big by DogDude · 2013-02-19 04:07 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like your IT staff needs some help. At my company, it's corporate policy to not reboot machines unless it's required for an update. Best of luck getting your IT issues fixed!!
  
  --
  I don't respond to AC's.
58. Re:big by cbhacking · 2013-02-19 14:43 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt many (if any) HD2 purchases these days end up running the stock OS much. The HD2 is ridiculously easy to port to, from everything I've seen. It's had (unofficial) ports of WP7, Android, Maemo/Meego, Ubuntu, and Windows RT, and probably other OSes. Its hardware is dated, but not uselessly so, and it's a wonderfully hackable device and can be dual (or more, if you don't mind the storage hit) booted; a rare capability in a phone.
  
  --
  There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Ah well ... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:02 · Score: 1

at least he admitted it.
But I guess he was talking about the past. At the moment M$ is doing a lot of things right and I guess they will become more important as a mobile platform in the next few years (given they stay on track). WM 6.5 was one of the worst mobile experiences I ever had. I switched to an iPhone 2 back then and I felt that it was a game changer for me that turned a phone into an usefull device. Later, when I got annoyed with Apples politics (with an ending contract at my provider), I switched to Android and have since than invested a lot in it. There are a few Apps I never want to miss again and WP8 would have to have them (or something compareable) before I would switch again. I think a lot of people have now invested their money in other eco systems (Android, iOS and BB) and they would be reluctant to switch to another system. That's why WM8 will have an extra stony way back into the market (I think). I hope they make it though!
1. Re:Ah well ... by The+Snowman · 2013-02-18 13:33 · Score: 1
  
  But I guess he was talking about the past. At the moment M$...
  You lost me there: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/22.
  
  --
  24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
2. Re:Ah well ... by msoftsucks · 2013-02-18 18:31 · Score: 1
  
  I guess you haven't seen M$ recent price increases on every bit of software it sells to the enterprise. From new Office 2013 licensing to Windows server 2012 cals cost increase, to SQL 2012 price increases, M$ is basically pricing themselves out of the market. Many of my clients who are ardent M$ users, are beginning to ask about the viability of open source software. One of my recent clients was beginning a new database project base on SQL 2012, and once they saw the pricing they decided to go with a different option.
  
  --
  Quit playing Monopoly with Bill.
  Linux - of the people, by the people, and for the people.
3. Re:Ah well ... by DeSigna · 2013-02-21 00:31 · Score: 1
  
  Really? Looks to me like it's gone down consistently over the years, looking at past pricing on products since around 2003. The biggest anomaly in that is the abolition of Small Business Server resulting in a 20% markup on SBS/SBS Premium functionality after June this year.
  Per-core licensing of SQL 2012 is (a fair bit) cheaper over 25-odd users (depending on feature set), SQL Express is free and each new version contains even more of the add-ons you used to have to pay for, Windows 7 & 8 was and remains much cheaper than XP was this time from release, Office has come down a little in price at Pro edition and a lot at the lower end editions or singleton products, Visual Studio is a bit less ridiculous and even has a free version, Server 2012 Std licensing offers effectively a superset of Server 2008R2 Enterprise's functionality at a slight increase over 2008R2 Standard pricing (there is no equivalent to 2008R2 Std anymore).
  I could go on a bit more. There's been a lot of pressure from high-quality open source or lower cost alternatives, so MS has been pushed to show a bit more value.
  Big licensing upgrades are admittedly horrifying to customers, when they see a $30,000 line item and ask what it is, and we say, "Oh, just Office". It's at the point where hardware is so cheap it has trouble making 1/3rd of the cost of a project, and it gets worse the bigger the organisation.
"Perhaps it isn't newsworthy..." by avatar139 · 2013-02-18 13:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

Clearly, you must be new here!

--
I'm honest enough to admit I lie to myself.
You bet it was wrong! by Billly+Gates · 2013-02-18 13:08 · Score: 1

I should have left that start menu on it.
Live the silly tiles to the non touch dual screen 24 inch monitor setup where that rightfully belongs.
Worse it runs too well and does not have limitations like a 32 meg file limit borrowed from Windows 3.0 left. That means people wont keep buying over and over again as we remove each limit to show off how hip they are to run the latest and greatest like Windows was pre-XP.

--
http://saveie6.com/
What goes around, comes around by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

A lot of it can be traced to Microsoft's bullying behavior throughout the '90s, when they (along with Intel) owned the digital platforms that mattered. Carriers, handset vendors, application developers, and technically savvy consumers remember that era and don't want to be bullied again. So just canning the EVPs and SVPs in charge of Windows Phone development isn't likely to change things. Getting rid of Ballmer and replacing him with someone who's not a 15-year Softie, now that might be perceived differently.
1. Re:What goes around, comes around by Tough+Love · 2013-02-18 18:28 · Score: 1
  
  Right, the ABM effect.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Mistake?? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:20 · Score: 5, Interesting

It may be a mistake but weighed against the disaster of Balmer's leadership of Microsoft... You'd be forced to conclude the mobile market was a success.
He also admitted he is not happy with Balmer by Billly+Gates · 2013-02-18 13:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

I happen to agree with that.
Will Bill Gates return then? I like the newer gentler Microsoft even if it is turning incompetent. If Bill was left IE would still have IE 6 crap in their on purpose to make it incompatible with everything else and .docx would be a drmed binary format with no OpenXML so no LibreOffice or GoogleDocs compatibility.
He did the same tricks with SCO Unix before they sold it completely to make sure apps could not be ported. Balmer is too stupid to be this evil

--
http://saveie6.com/
1. Re:He also admitted he is not happy with Balmer by JDG1980 · 2013-02-18 14:02 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Will Bill Gates return then? I like the newer gentler Microsoft even if it is turning incompetent. If Bill was left IE would still have IE 6 crap in their on purpose to make it incompatible with everything else and .docx would be a drmed binary format with no OpenXML so no LibreOffice or GoogleDocs compatibility.
  The reason Microsoft isn't doing this crap any more (at least not nearly as much) isn't because Ballmer is less ruthless than Gates was. It's because the European Union found the balls to do what the US antitrust authorities wouldn't, and actually effectively regulated Microsoft's worst anticompetitive excesses. Not only that, but an array of governments and large corporations got bit hard by Microsoft's lock-in as a result of the IE6 fiasco, so they made it clear that they weren't going to put up with any more proprietary nonsense like ActiveX. The whole reason why OOXML was created is that many government agencies insisted on an open and documented file format, and were about to switch to ODF if Microsoft had held the line on their opaque binary blobs.
2. Re:He also admitted he is not happy with Balmer by wiredlogic · 2013-02-18 14:33 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone locked into ActiveX did so willingly. MS never held a gun to anyone's head and the problems inherent with it were obvious from the day of release.
  
  --
  I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
3. Re:He also admitted he is not happy with Balmer by Billly+Gates · 2013-02-18 16:23 · Score: 2
  
  I am referring to custom CSS and HTML where you need to use scripts to place the elements that break in any other platform. Tricks like this and undermining C++ and the "dont code it. Include it!" and other lockin attempts. Bill Gates did this to create such a monopoly that business users are locked in hence why they still run XP and ancient browsers while the rest of us are using Android tablets and IPADs.
  While Windows 7 and Office 2010 and IE 9 are much better and do I dare say usable and not as proprietary they are hurting MS. The only reason to use Windows RT over Android/iOS is because of MS office. Infact Balmer even ported it according to rumor, but it is likely Bill Gates forced it to be MS only.
  Why use Windows? It is not for superior technology that is for sure. Yes, Windows 7 is certainly usable for an average person now the fact is MS had to do because people had no reason to upgrade.
  Gates in my opinion was ruthless and he made products bad and inferior on purpose because he wanted more lockin rather than competing on features and greatness which is what Steve Jobs did. The phone and tablet was ripe for the taking without the proprietary win32 garbage that kepts macs out of the office for all these decades.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
4. Re:He also admitted he is not happy with Balmer by Tough+Love · 2013-02-18 18:34 · Score: 1
  
  Will Bill Gates return then?
  I wish. He's such an idiot, I would love to seem him fully exposed and finally put to rest the bullshit genius-nerd mythos that grew up around him, when in fact his only real skill is flipping the flinger to the rule of law.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
He's Chairman of the Board by bunbuntheminilop · 2013-02-18 13:24 · Score: 1, Insightful

He says 'Microsoft made a mistake', not 'the Board didn't lead the company in the right direction'.
Why do I get the feeling that he won't take any personal responsibility for the running of Microsoft?
1. Re:He's Chairman of the Board by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  This is the same guy that said with a straight face that Bing is a better product than Google.
  Everyone should realize by now that Billg is old and senile and not listen to him anymore.
2. Re:He's Chairman of the Board by Swampash · 2013-02-18 13:58 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  He may not run Microsoft, but he's the Chairman of the Board that CHOOSES the guy that runs Microsoft. And year after year, Microsoft's Gates-led Board reaffirms its faith in Ballmer.
  How's that worked out for them?
3. Re:He's Chairman of the Board by Teresita · 2013-02-18 14:09 · Score: 2
  
  He may not run Microsoft, but he's the Chairman of the Board that CHOOSES the guy that runs Microsoft. And year after year, Microsoft's Gates-led Board reaffirms its faith in Ballmer.
  
  That doesn't shock me. Back in the Day, Bill had a Japanese buddy named Kazuhiko Nishi who spent a million dollars building a giant robot dinosaur for a TV show promoting Microsoft products, then had to bail him out when he dropped $275K on a stock scam. Sounds just like a proto-Ballmer.
4. Re:He's Chairman of the Board by modmans2ndcoming · 2013-02-18 14:30 · Score: 1
  
  I use Bing all the time. In fact it is my standard search engine... I find it very good...and I am a google everything person.
5. Re:He's Chairman of the Board by jones_supa · 2013-02-18 18:47 · Score: 1
  
  Neither I have seen Bing to be that bad. The search results are high-quality. Also, it's good that they provide some competition to the almighty Google.
6. Re:He's Chairman of the Board by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-19 07:22 · Score: 1
  
  Bing is a FAR superior porn search engine after Google's recent manipulation of "safesearch" results. Looking forward at Google's newest machinations, it may become the better search engine for torrents and warez too. It would be funny if porn and piracy made Bing the dominant search engine. Google had better tread carefully. The general mobs are notoriously fickle and disloyal when it comes to the tech world. Yahoo, Alta Vista, and Ask Jeeves all sank pretty quickly.
Great job Microsoft! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 13:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

You heavily promote a WP 7.5 product - the Lumia 900 - and not two months later you declare it to be incapable of running WP8. Good job of throwing WP7.5 users to the wolves. And they wonder why they're losing money...
1. Re:Great job Microsoft! by jones_supa · 2013-02-18 18:52 · Score: 1
  
  Isn't that how things generally work in software, especially in mobile gear? The device is designed for the major version of software, with just patches and security updates released afterwards.
2. Re:Great job Microsoft! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-19 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  Meanwhile Samsung is rolling out Android 4.1.2 Jelly Bean updates to their Galaxy S2 phones that were released two years ago with Android 2.3.x Gingerbread.
Windows Phone could have been the best phone OS by Duncan+J+Murray · 2013-02-18 13:28 · Score: 2, Insightful

by a boggy mile, but it still wouldn't have sold. And that's because they've become a dirty brand - generally people use windows, not because they like it, but because they need to run particular software (office, business apps, games) or because they'd rather a mac but can't justify the expense. They have irritated geeks with their anti-competitive behaviour, and seem to be heading into an even more restrictive and walled-garden approach - but starting with the wall before really having a must-have product. These geeks are often the IT-support for friends/family with windows, and they're saying avoid microsoft unless you really have to. On top of all this, even among the general public, microsoft are not a cool brand (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cX4t5-YpHQ, http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/08/12/1732248/msft-reaches-out-to-hackers-do-epic- ). All they've got left going for them is their enterprise image. The 'if you want a proper computer to do work on, you use windows' image. But with Metro, they are just about to throw this down the pan, too. They are doing what nearly cost Blackberry their business - not realising their sales to the consumer were based on their cachet selling to enterprise, and by chasing the consumer, they will lose both groups of customer. And, frankly, after all the dirty tricks they've tried, you can't say they didn't deserve it.
1. Re:Windows Phone could have been the best phone OS by fredgiblet · 2013-02-18 14:45 · Score: 2
  
  Not all accounts. Try WP8 before you dismiss it, you may not like it, but it is absolutely worth a look.
I think he's talking about Windows Mobile by lseltzer · 2013-02-18 13:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

In the context of the article he's talking about Microsoft's *old* phone strategy. Windows Mobile was basically an attempt to do the Blackberry thing with Windows. It could have done worse, but obviously it didn't succeed, which is why they dumped it for Windows Phone. I don't think he's criticizing Windows Phone.
1. Re:I think he's talking about Windows Mobile by stephanruby · 2013-02-18 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  In the context of the article he's talking about Microsoft's *old* phone strategy. Windows Mobile was basically an attempt to do the Blackberry thing with Windows. It could have done worse, but obviously it didn't succeed, which is why they dumped it for Windows Phone.
  I don't think he's criticizing Windows Phone.
  But then, why is he criticizing Ballmer too?
Eugenics by ezwip · 2013-02-18 13:32 · Score: 1

Gee Bill I'd love to put more money in your pocket so you can euthanize more people but... there are other cell phone companies to choose from.

--
"I guess I'm gonna fade into Bolivian."
Another call for Ballmer's bad strategy by Virtucon · 2013-02-18 13:49 · Score: 2

You have to start counting the cards against Ballmer. Windows Mobile was a dominant product up until the iPhone. Symbian was lame and Blackberry was coming on strong. Had they put together a good game plan, working from their strengths, they would have had a better position than they are now. I'm afraid buying a Windows Phone is a losing proposition because 1) Not many phone manufacturers will want to support it, unless MSFT pays most of the freight and 2) Not many developers are running to the platform even though they're opening their arms to get anybody to come over. That means MSFT will have to subsidize on both fronts, which if you're new into the market isn't much of a stretch except they've been in the mobile space for over a decade. And, to be honest, the MSFT ship seems to be missing the dock on quite a few things, which ultimately lead straight to Ballmer's desk. Yes, the company is successful but it's getting passed very quickly by Apple, Google and I'll be interested to see if Blackberry's First Quarter numbers don't do better than Windows Phone 8 in terms of shipped units. If the latter happens I'd stick a fork in it for MSFT and try to recoup what they can from their Desktop/Tablet endeavor or ultimately, just start porting office to Android and wave a white flag.

--
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
1. Re:Another call for Ballmer's bad strategy by amiga3D · 2013-02-18 15:13 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I always thought Paul Allen was the real brains at Microsoft anyway. Gates and Ballmer were the ruthless cutthroats who bamboozled IBM. What they did to wring IBM's business away isn't going to work against Google and Apple as it's a different era not to mention the EU isn't going to allow that stuff anymore.
2. Re:Another call for Ballmer's bad strategy by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  Gates was a programmer just like Paul Allen, Together they developed Microsoft Basic for a variety of early microcomputers. One of them being the Apple ][.
3. Re:Another call for Ballmer's bad strategy by amiga3D · 2013-02-19 01:24 · Score: 1
  
  I never said he didn't program but from everything I've read Allen was the star of that show just like Gates was the star at marketing.
Re:Too bad really... by uutf · 2013-02-18 13:55 · Score: 1

If that is true, then it's the first windows phone os that is a compelling product. You're the only person I've seen say anything nice about it, though.
Really? Most things I've read say "great OS, could do with more apps"
And that certainly holds true from my experiences with Windows Phone 7/7.5 (haven't played with 8 yet)
Ballmer by asmkm22 · 2013-02-18 14:02 · Score: 4, Interesting

At what point is Ballmer going to be held responsible any of the "mistakes" that Microsoft has been making? The guy is bulletproof beyond all logic for a publicly traded company.
1. Re:Ballmer by jader3rd · 2013-02-18 19:05 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  At what point is Ballmer going to be held responsible any of the "mistakes" that Microsoft has been making? The guy is bulletproof beyond all logic for a publicly traded company.
  Maybe once Microsoft looses money for a couple of consecutive quarters. For a publicly traded company, they have a history of increased profits quarter after quarter.
2. Re:Ballmer by fredgiblet · 2013-02-19 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft has posted ONE quarterly loss I believe in it's entire history and if not it's entire history then only one in the last decade or so. Even that was probably a strategic financial move that didn't have to happen.
Strategy is confusing by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 14:17 · Score: 1

Let's forget that Microsoft had mobile devices before. I don't see how they think they can get market share by having exclusive deals and expensive phones in the US. Sell the Nokia Lumia 620 in the US. I want a phone that dials. I'm not buying it for an easier way to get to Facebook or Skydrive. I don't want the crapware I get with a new computer on a new phone.
Re:Like...Do I Have to Shout It? by BoRegardless · 2013-02-18 14:26 · Score: 2

The KING has no clothes! He's big, brash, loud, a mega-shareholder and he is not managing right.
Re:Too bad really... by fredgiblet · 2013-02-18 14:44 · Score: 2

It's actually good. Not perfect by any stretch, but good. WP9 will probably be caught up on features and have new stuff to boot.

Most of the people ragging on it are either people who reflexively hate MS or people who used WP7 early on and dont' realize that things change.

When people talk about getting new phones I always recomend they give it a try, if you dont' like it that's fine, but don't just dismiss it out of hand, try it out and see if you like it.
Yeah they did by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-18 14:57 · Score: 1

"We didn't miss cell phones,"
Yes you sure did. I can't imagine a more pusher-like half-assed offering than Windows phone 8. Phone 7.5 was crap but that could be forgiven as u really were late then..
But don't fret. I had to download a new dialer app for my Android phone as it was loading Skype every time I tried to phone so you're not the only crap out there. There's still only one company doing smart phones right - Apple, and since I don't want that, it's back to dumb phones and ultra smart PC's for me..
1. Re:Yeah they did by amiga3D · 2013-02-18 15:16 · Score: 1
  
  Apple is sitting on their iPhone success. They're letting the Droids overtake them. The iPhone 5 is really nice but it's not like there aren't offerings from other vendors that compete. They need to get out there and prove they can innovate without Steve.
2. Re:Yeah they did by amiga3D · 2013-02-20 03:22 · Score: 1
  
  I'd say the world's best turd poisher was Gates. Windows is the biggest stinking pile of shit ever and it sold better than anything. That turd shines!
At Barnes and Noble by paiute · 2013-02-18 15:03 · Score: 4, Funny

I just saw the 2013 printing of his book The Road Ahead with a sticker on the cover which read: Now Revised To Include Wireless.

--
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
You missed 0.2425 days by jabberw0k · 2013-02-18 15:20 · Score: 5, Funny

I would prefer 24x7 to 24x7x365, as the latter misses leap years. It is my understanding, though, that Windows Phones now have achieved five-nines uptime, running properly 9.9999% of the time.
1. Re:You missed 0.2425 days by Spectre · 2013-02-18 15:43 · Score: 1
  
  I would prefer 24x7 to 24x7x365, as the latter misses leap years. It is my understanding, though, that Windows Phones now have achieved five-nines uptime, running properly 9.9999% of the time.
  This should get a billion funny mods.
  I actually re-read that percentage 'cause I couldn't believe anybody would think MS had 5 9's on anything, then on the second read finally noticed where the decimal place was!
  Thanks for the late night chuckle.
  
  --
  "Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
2. Re:You missed 0.2425 days by sootman · 2013-02-19 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  iOS has a very good 24x7x364 rating -- the only problem is that something always goes wrong at New Year's.
  
  --
  Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
The phone????? by CPNABEND · 2013-02-18 15:45 · Score: 1

Has anybody looked at Office 2013? I got a copy for $9.95 through the Micro$soft home user program. They are re-making all of their APPS look like the phone. The package was about $11.00 more than it was worth. The company is putting all of their eggs in the "Metro" basket, and it will not end up well for them, unless Ballmer walks through computer stores with a baseball bat to "convince" people to buy their products.

--
My wife doesn't listen to me either...
1. Re:The phone????? by Billly+Gates · 2013-02-18 16:30 · Score: 2
  
  It is so damn ugly. A phone wont make you go blind looking at white like a much better phone screen would. Odd since computer monitors are considered inferior in DPI as well as flickering.
  I plan to get rid of it soon which is a damn shame. Under the hood Windows 8 and Office 2013 are fucking nice. I like the sharing abilities, easy cloud integration, and with 8 all the power and data saving features all with global profiles that go where you go.
  But it is sooo white! I have trouble telling if I dose off where the paper ends and where the ribbon begins. I have dark gray on but I feel I am on a 20 year old black and white ancient NeXT cube with monochrome glory from the past.
  I like the morphism that all the artists here on slashdot think its hip to hate which imitates physical objects. Aero, shadows, translucent effects, and even leather for the address book in iOS are pleasant and work well. I feel like I am in a time warp looking at the new graphics. It is butt ugly and I hope MS changes it back (I doubt they will) as they just assume we are crankly old middle aged men who hate change. Bah get used to it!
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
2. Re:The phone????? by jones_supa · 2013-02-18 21:15 · Score: 1
  
  I like the morphism that all the artists here on slashdot think its hip to hate which imitates physical objects. Aero, shadows, translucent effects, and even leather for the address book in iOS are pleasant and work well. I feel like I am in a time warp looking at the new graphics. It is butt ugly and I hope MS changes it back (I doubt they will) as they just assume we are crankly old middle aged men who hate change. Bah get used to it!
  My theory is that there are UI structures built using HTML and scripting so it's hard to guarantee accurately positioned graphics. Thus they possibly thought that it's better to resort into simple boxes and things like that.
Re:Too bad really... by DogDude · 2013-02-18 15:50 · Score: 1

You're the only person I've seen say anything nice about it, though.

You should do a bit more reading. Most people who actually use it like it quite a bit. Most of the very easy to find online reviews also say that it's a pretty darned good product, with quite a few saying it's better than i* and Android. I really like my Windows Phone (my second). That makes two people, if you're Google-phobic.

--
I don't respond to AC's.
Other Take by SuperKendall · 2013-02-18 16:30 · Score: 1

I had figured that Microsoft had the mobile market locked up when Palm started shipping Treo phones with Windows mobile on them.
I figured both Palm and Windows Mobile were dead when that happened. The Treo Windows Mobile was horrible. At the same time it sucked away effort from the Palm based Treo, I mean if Treo couldn't make up their mind what OS was the future why should I buy into that wishy-washy nest? I was a die-hard Palm fan before that but the Treo Windows Mobile cured me of that rapidly.
As for Microsoft - all they got was a lot of customers that were having a terrible Windows Mobile experience, and happy to share that fact.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Other Take by DanFelixPierce · 2013-02-18 17:26 · Score: 1
  
  Well, until it shipped, it seemed that the Treo was heralding an era of every phone running Windows Mobile. I'm sure that's what Ballmer was thinking.
  It definitely signaled the end of Palm. I loved my Palm Vx but they lost their way after that.
Re:Gates is in denial by jones_supa · 2013-02-18 19:45 · Score: 1

It's funny to think that WIndows CE came out in 1998, years before the iPhone, yet Microsoft did ***nothing*** to advance this platform into a viable and profitable mobile platform.
Just like Nokia carried on with the unstable and clunky Symbian for too long. No wonder if you get steamrolled by the likes of iPhone and Android.
Hindsight is 6:6* by wonkey_monkey · 2013-02-18 20:20 · Score: 1

*I'm metric

the way that we went about it didn't allow us to get the leadership, so it's clearly a mistake.
Yup. Better not take any risks ever again.

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Re:Too bad really... by sensationull · 2013-02-18 22:40 · Score: 1

I like my Windows Phone 7.8 also, tried others and like it best. I know a couple of others that have chosen it over the alternatives as well. It actually does the job with a minimum of fuss. Could still do with more work but for what I do it is great.
The biggest surprise here? by reboot246 · 2013-02-18 22:51 · Score: 2

The biggest surprise is that anybody on this planet actually watches Charlie Rose!
Re:Too bad really... by MemoryDragon · 2013-02-18 23:33 · Score: 1

I dont like the tiles UI, reason enough not to like Windows Phone?
Gates? by sixx66 · 2013-02-19 01:18 · Score: 1

Gates' comments are as irrelevant to Microsoft as Windows Phone is to the mobile market. Isn't he supposed to be busy giving away all the money he made out of all the people he scammed over the past couple of decades?
Apple reboots by sjbe · 2013-02-19 02:29 · Score: 1

When was the last time it was "ok" to have to reboot your phone.
I have an iPhone and I probably reboot it roughly once a month due to various minor problems. It's never "ok" but I have yet to use any smartphone from any maker (including Samsung, Nokia and others) I haven't had to periodically reboot. They are computers that happen to be able to make calls. They're pretty good overall but hardly bulletproof.

Microsoft makes neat toys and cheap PC software - but reliable and "applicance-like" in a way that a Mac or DVD player or a toaster is - they are not.
Well I have a Mac (a recent vintage Mac Mini with an SSD and Core i7) and an iPhone and I have several Windows PCs (two from Acer one from Dell) running XP and Windows 7. My Windows PCs crash and/or need rebooting significantly less often than my Apple products. I like Apple products fine and like the interfaces better than most Windows products but the Apple products I own don't even begin to approach "appliance like" in reliability. They're solid but not bulletproof.
Furthermore I have a Windows 2003 server sitting 3 feet from me as I type this and the only time I've ever had to reboot it was for an occasional upgrade and for power outages. I haven't had a crash of any sort in over 4 years. I cannot say the same about any of my desktop machines from Apple or any PC vendor.

It's kind of like why nobody buys the Chevy Volt - it's a $40k Chevy econobox. Chevy != high tech quality, that's what Toyota is for.
I've driven a Volt and a Prius both enough to have a well formed opinion on each. I live near and work with engineers from GM who test the Volt at GM's Proving Grounds so they've shown me the car. My sister had a Prius until recently and I drove it a fair bit too. While it is true that the money went into the power train rather than the interior, the fit and finish on the Volt is generally better than a Prius and the power train in the Volt is definitely better for most people. The price of the most similar plug in Prius is about the same (close to $40K) and the Volt is MUCH nicer to drive. I'd argue that it's power train is better technology than anything Toyota currently offers. If you have a choice the Volt is the better car between the two especially if you drive in sloppy weather or actually want to enjoy driving.
Pocket PC? by anomaly0617 · 2013-02-19 04:22 · Score: 1

Is that a PC in your Pocket?
Almost... by fuzznutz · 2013-02-19 04:50 · Score: 1

The IBM PC was expensive too. Real expensive... Maybe you are thinking of the Edsel of computing which came two years after after the IBM PC. The Apple Lisa which was as much as a nice car.

In reality, the failure of Apple was the closed architecture. The IBM PC was completely open and even published BIOS source code in their tech reference manuals. The bus specifications were published and open for anyone to build hardware for it. This allowed competitors, (CompaQ etc) to enter the market with clones and expand it. Ironically, we are seeing history repeat itself as Apple slides again due to the openness of Android.
1. Re:Almost... by Teckla · 2013-02-19 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  The IBM PC was expensive too. Real expensive...
  This is true, but what I really meant is that the clones that followed were not expensive (at least compared to Macs).
  
  Maybe you are thinking of the Edsel of computing which came two years after after the IBM PC. The Apple Lisa which was as much as a nice car.
  
  Nope, I'm referring to Macs; however, you're right that the Lisa was outrageously expensive.
  
  In reality, the failure of Apple was the closed architecture. The IBM PC was completely open and even published BIOS source code in their tech reference manuals. The bus specifications were published and open for anyone to build hardware for it. This allowed competitors, (CompaQ etc) to enter the market with clones and expand it.
  That's a good point, though I think there was a convergence of factors: (1) Business acceptance of the IBM PC (2) Inexpensive (relatively speaking) IBM PC clones (3) Macs being outrageously expensive (4) Companies like Commodore and Atari making some strategic mistakes.
  I think #3 alone would have eventually led to Macs being the #2 or #3 platform, even had the IBM PC never existed. I don't know that for sure, though. I do know that at the time I drooled over Macs, but could never afford to buy one from Apple when the competition was so much less expensive.
  
  Ironically, we are seeing history repeat itself as Apple slides again due to the openness of Android.
  I think you're probably right that the #1 reason was the lack of openness. It's hard for a single entity to compete against a whole pile of competitors. So while I think many factors were in play, I do believe I agree with your that the primary factor was openness.
Re:Like...Do I Have to Shout It? by operagost · 2013-02-19 05:23 · Score: 1

The KING has no clothes!

Thanks for that mental image.

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Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Re:Yes I remember the Courier by nametaken · 2013-02-19 05:29 · Score: 1

They had multiple working hardware prototypes. Here's an early, early prototype from long before you saw that video. It should look familiar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=049_U-0C9qU
Re:Too bad really... by fredgiblet · 2013-02-19 06:18 · Score: 1

Sure
Re:Gates is in denial by symbolset · 2013-02-19 07:48 · Score: 1

If Nokia still sold Symbian, it would still take 20% of the smartphone market. Even if they didn't change it. People really liked it for some reason.

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Help stamp out iliturcy.
I like his strategy by countach · 2013-02-19 09:02 · Score: 1

I like Ballmer's strategy, I like it a lot.
Re:The worst has yet to come by symbolset · 2013-02-19 19:25 · Score: 1

They broke compatibility with every update. But only for the programs they wanted to compete with. That is how they won with office. Now they are breaking compatibility with everybody all at once.

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Help stamp out iliturcy.
klasik mobilya by mobilya · 2013-02-19 21:47 · Score: 1

klasik mobilyada yeni koleksiyon çok çarpc site için http://www.zebranomobilya.com.tr/
No, no, there's no hope by cundare · 2013-02-20 05:43 · Score: 1

So Wozniak says that Apple has dropped the ball and that Microsoft is the true innovator at this point. But Gates says that it's Microsoft that has dropped the ball. Arg. I understand that all slashdotters are required to hold an irrational hatred of either Microsoft or Apple, but it's getting harder to pretend that either company is worthy of that level of emotional involvement.
Yeah, this article definitely isn't newsworthy except for those whose time is worth considerably less than mine.