Slashdot Mirror
Intercontinental Mind-Meld Unites Two Rats
ananyo writes "The brains of two rats on different continents have been made to act in tandem. When the first, in Brazil, uses its whiskers to choose between two stimuli, an implant records its brain activity and signals to a similar device in the brain of a rat in the United States. The U.S. rat then usually makes the same choice on the same task. Miguel Nicolelis, a neuroscientist at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina, says that this system allows one rat to use the senses of another, incorporating information from its far-away partner into its own representation of the world. 'It's not telepathy. It's not the Borg,' he says. 'But we created a new central nervous system made of two brains.' Nicolelis says that the work, published today, is the first step towards constructing an organic computer that uses networks of linked animal brains to solve tasks. But other scientists who work on neural implants are skeptical."
And I thought Brazil and the United States belonged to the same continent...
...could go wrong?
". But other scientists who work on neural implants are skeptical.""
as they should be,. It's a big deal, as such it will require good data and be repeatable.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Oh c'mon Pinky, you already know, you DMA'd it from me 250nS ago.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Oh, yes.
Or a basket case?
what could go wrong?
I move, You move. Just like that?
If the goal is to use this technology to mend broken connections in diseased or damaged brains, wouldn't it make more sense to test a similarly damaged rat brain rather than attempt to repeat the same results with four mice? Note: The question is related to the original article more so than the submission on /.
Common Sense (+1)
... refuse to issue the standard obligatory decades old Simpson's joke that typically accompanies a story like this one.
Now we can use distributed methods to apply the Ludovico technique.
Don't worry: this will only be used for the Greater Good.
Sounds just like Dead Stop.
I notice they do not include a picture of the wireheaded rats (only an artists impression). Probably wise. While I for one believe that the advancement of science to be the greatest height to which a rat could aspire, I have a feeling that others (and possibly the rats) do not feel the same way.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Actually, sounds almost exactly like what I'd think was the beginnings of the Borg.
No, it's a new interface for rodents, allowing the moving of information from one location to another electronically.
It's the new Ratmouse.
I for one welcome our new intercontinental rat overlords.
Captcha: transmit
Imagine a Wolf cluster of these.
This idea has some interesting real-world applications
1. Sex
???
???
4. Profit
Wow. We're making Cranium Rats? Anyone that has played Planescape Torment knows thats a bad idea.
One of the most unusual concepts of an alien life form I've seen are the Tines in Vinge's novel A Fire upon the Deep , dog or giant rat-like animals that are not individually conscious, but when together in packs form a single sentient organism. In the case of Vinge's novel, neural communication between the individual members of the pack was carried out via ultrasound, not electricity like here, but I wouldn't have imagined that scientists would pursue the same idea at some point.
What is the maximum number of mice that can be connected in this way?
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them!
Interesting that the hyperintelligent pan-dimensional beings that we call mice would direct us to use their traditional enemies, rats, as preliminary test subjects for the future wiring of all of humanity into one hyper-super-duper-parallel-mind-games-puper-computer to come up with the question much sooner than we would otherwise.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Not sure why this type of experiments is making into the news now. Similar and more advanced experiments where conducted 20 years ago already with far more exciting results. Is science spinning in a mud never going to stop?
Was the artist's impression completely necessary? What I take from that, the rats engaged in some Hollywood, overly cgi vulcan mind meld all the while inside of Tron.
Clearly we need an RFC for the Brain-To-Brain-Interface Protocol.
Hopefully it'll be built on top of SSL. I don't want someone hacking into my rats.
Koans and fables for the software engineer
See the science fiction novel, _Lady El_ by Jim Starlin and Dana Graziunas.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Maybe NOW we can finally understand what the female brain is Really thinking....
How'd you like a set of electrodes in your brain, in the name of experimental science?
Someone let this out a month and a day too early.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Next time I'm traversing the Warrens, looking for the Decanter of Endless Water, I'll remember that this is how that bullshit started.
Researcher: press that lever, you rat!
Rat: I realize that command does have its fascination, even under circumstances such as these, but I neither enjoy it nor am I frightened of it. It simply exists, and I will do whatever logically needs to be done.
Why you should be skeptical:
1. Slapping implants that record...something, and then slapping implants that...play back something that stimulate neurons in the exact same way as they were firing when recorded is a hell of an accomplisment.
This alone is sci-fi level stuff.
2. It's doubtful such activity, on the level of a neuron applies to a blanket region as if projecting on a screen. You wouldn't be "projecting" the correct micro-piece on the correct destination neuron.
3. Even with sufficiently fine neuronal alignment, it's doubtful neural networks at the individual neuron level are identically positioned in rats any more than skin cells are.
4. Even if neural network topology on the individual neuron level are identical between rats, again they wouldn't line up any more than eyes do for humans needing glasses.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
This is nothing new. Obama and his cronies are proof that rats already act in tandem.
I hate to break it to the researchers, but getting a pack of rats to operate under the same collective consciousness has been done before
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
And shower. f0r
...since cats do, in fact, have pointy ears. I would have thought that that would be a major help here.
Also, as a cat lover, I vehemently object to giving mice any special training or equipment that might topple the fragile balance of power between mice and cats. I'm going to file a protest to the United Species Security Council!
Ezekiel 23:20
Oh great, we've just taken the first step into creating Cranium Rats. Bring enough of those together and there'll be talk about overthrowing the bonds human opression.
implementation of game movie.
me: this is scary: http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/02/28/1615207/intercontinental-mind-meld-unites-two-rats Sent at 1:14 PM on Thursday
Poet: scarey
i think it is brilliant
me: its good research, but the implications are scary
Poet: thinking of healing applications for people with brain injury
or spinal cord injury
oh yeah
me: being able to map/read sections of the brain for brain injury and to control prosthetices is great
Poet: let the army use it create sleeper assasins all over the workd
yet the army could
me: but could you imagine the popup adverts coming through your nural implant telling you to go buy Tide detergent.. you dont know why you bought it, you just
did Poet: shit
that is scary
me: actually you do know why you bought it.. you wanted it.. but why did you want it, and why did it feel so good to buy it.. like a hit of opium?
jeez I am cynical
Silence is a state of mime.
Tie a bunch of animal brains together around the world? Have it make decisions? Nope, no way...
I for one welcome our ninja-trained helicopter-piloting rat underlords.
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
Give us your cheese of be assimilated!
(If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
the first step towards constructing an organic computer that uses networks of linked animal brains to solve tasks
Are you looking at the same link I am? There's a video at the bottom of the article showing them in all their wired up glory. http://www.nature.com/news/intercontinental-mind-meld-unites-two-rats-1.12522
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
"Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?"
"Actually, yes, Brain; for once, I am. *narf* *poit*"
And I thought Brazil and the United States belonged to the same continent...
Yea, that can happen when you sleep through geography.
Or take Geography at a U.S. school.
. .
So scientists are wiring together rodent brains to create a supercomputer? Maybe my neighbor isn't schizophrenic after all.
I work in this field, and the work here is not nearly as revolutionary as made out.
We have known for about a decade that a brain can learn to integrate arbitrary patterns of electrical stimuli. This work was done by many groups including the group that performed the current study, so they are clearly aware of that work. Since the placement of recording electrodes and the stimulating electrodes in these experiments are essentially random at a cellular level, there is no reason to treat the recorded signal differently from any signal derived from task related timing.
Using two animals and the internet is really just a sensationalist re-hash of what has already been well described. Sure it is an engineering achievement, but the claim that there is a 'single nervous system' is wildly overstated. The fact that this study is making such waves is really frustrating to may of us who are working on similar topics because it seems to be rewarding sensationalism rather than progress.
My whiskers with your whiskers...my cheese with your cheese...
PAIIIIIIIIIIN!!!!!!!
Today, the depth, profundity, expressive power, and content of a human thought has some strict biologically-imposed limits. There are only so many neurons available to participate in it.
Once humans can link up using tech like this, they will be able to participate in thoughts far greater than any that have ever been thunk before (by any and every measurable criteria). No single human will grasp the thought in its totality, but the higher-order "metamind" that is created by the network of humans will grasp the thought, and be able to act on it.
It will be a very interesting day indeed.
Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these!
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
" the work, published today, is the first step towards constructing an organic computer that uses networks of linked animal brains to solve tasks." How is that not a horrificially unethical case of animal cruelty? The sad thing is, no-one else on Slashdot seems to give a crap about anything other than humans (or themselves?).
Doesn't this make anyone else a little uneasy? It doesn't sound terribly ethical to me...
The US and Brazil are in the same Continent: America
To be permanently wired to a porn-star.
'It's not telepathy. It's not the Borg,' he says
No, it's Vulcan.
I'm the red ranger, but when we come together we form voltron FUCING POWER RANGERS MAN _ A SENTIENT BEING
unusual sci fi shit there..
The Olympic flag has five rings representing the "five inhabited continents of the world". Of the 7 generally accepted continents, Antarctica can safely be excluded. Did the flag designer combine North and South America into just America, or were Europe and Asia combined into Eurasia?
Please don't be fooled by this nonsense. Nicolelis used to be a good scientist, but about 10 years ago he realized he could stage high impact dramatics instead of advancing the field, awe the media, and continue to rake in grant money. I challenge someone to tell me how this study advanced the field.
We know rats brains respond to cues. We know know how to record that.
We know the cortex is plastic enough to learn from novel external stimuli (a shock). To be fair, Nicolelis did do grounbreaking research, once upon a time.
He DID NOT WIRE TWO BRAINS TOGETHER. He modified a very simplified recording from one brain, and he modified it to the extent that he was basically playing back a simple shock to another brain. The magic is that the cortex is plastic enough to use this simple shock to influence behavior, given enough trials. Which had also been shown many times before (to be fair, Nicolelis did do some of this early work)
The crux though, as a neuroscientist this statement makes me sick: 'But we created a new central nervous system made of two brains.' Nicolelis says
Such BS. Inexcusable from a scientist.
Of course it doesn't help my opinion of him that he treated the faculty so poorly at the institute he founded in Natal that they all left, forming a new institute without him.
I guess the only ones to really blame are the popsci writers who don't have a clue, or who just don't give a damn.
Now for the all important questions: If one rat hears Metallica while linked to the other rat, what entities will the RIAA sue? Can a DRM take down notice shut down the experiment? And how does the six-strike policy work in such a situation?
Want a job giving your brain for the next generation of computing 8 hours a day?
That reminds me of a South Park episode.
"Everyone's in favor of saving Hitler's brain. But when you put it in the body of a great white shark--Ooooh! Suddenly you've gone too far!" --Professor Farnsworth
e-Vel!
Anything like this? (IBDB).
Sounds like a bumper sticker to me.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
When rat one moved his left foot, the right brain of rat two was shocked, and ... moved his left foot.
It's called TV commercials.
But other scientists who work on neural implants are skeptical^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H beside themselves with envy.
FTFTheSummary, apparently...
Prepared to be gang-banged!
"Into the mud, scum queen!"
Well, just this week: grey goo, cranium rats. Take your pick. It looks like scientists really work on an end of the world scenario :D