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Do Kiosks and IVRs Threaten Human Interaction?

DavidGilbert99 writes "According to research by the Hyatt Hotel group, one third of customers are already checking in at self-service kiosks in their hotel lobbies, eschewing the traditional route of the receptionist. This is indicative of a wider trend according to voice recognition experts Nuance who believe we simply never want to talk to a real human again, preferring the clipped, efficient tones of its Nina virtual assistant. Expanding this from mobile to now include the web means we could soon be living in a world where speaking to a real live human is the exception rather than the rule." When things go smoothly, I prefer the automated versions of many things (airport check-in, ordering products to arrive by mail, depositing a check); it's when things go wrong that voice menus and web sites just seem to make simple problems into complicated ones.

294 comments

  1. Speed and cost by bhcompy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just want to check-in faster. I don't care if it's with a person or a kiosk. And if you charge me to talk to a real human, I'll use the machine.

    1. Re:Speed and cost by Samalie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This really is everything.

      Imagine for a second I'm a poor bastard that has been travelling for the last 30 hours. Between flights, security, check-in-delays, etc...I'm fucking BEAT.

      I just want to get in my fucking hotel room as fast as is humanly possible.

      People are (generally) slow. Inefficient. Worse..talkative.

      Bring on the machine!

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Speed and cost by frinkster · · Score: 4, Informative

      I just want to check-in faster.

      That's basically it. When I check in to a hotel, the person at the desk spends five minutes typing on the keyboard. Why? What kind of garbage reservation system are hotels using that forces the worker to type so much?

      Want to reduce your personnel costs? Get a reservation system that doesn't require so much typing and you could have a single clerk at the desk instead of three.

    3. Re:Speed and cost by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      use machines is fun! it let's you talk to even more people and use more time!

      like this one hotel, had to ask staff where to find more staff to check in! BRILLIANT!

      and like this one flight switch over, had to ask staff where to find staff to find another member of the staff! EXCELLENT!

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing. To each their own, I suppose.

      Quite frankly, with an attitude like yours? I don't think they want much want to talk to you, anyways.

      "Thank god. He went straight to the kiosk..."

      I am less forgiving - because people like you are responsible for the rise of Sirius Cybernetics, the robotics company behind some of the galaxy's most aggravating robots. "Share and enjoy!"

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    5. Re:Speed and cost by Imagix · · Score: 1

      Sirius Cybernetics, the robotics company behind some of the galaxy's most aggravating robots

      I thought that was Cyberdyne Systems....

    6. Re:Speed and cost by Picass0 · · Score: 1

      If you've been traveling the last thirty hours I'm going to guess you probably had your hotel reservations set up in advance. Most big name hotels have an automated check-in for people with advance reservations.

      I agree about wanting the check in to be simple but after the fact I appreaciate if there is decent local concierge service. That's not the type of thing people want automated. Some hotel chains may have a centralized call center but even that creates it's own set of problems .

    7. Re:Speed and cost by lxs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing.

      Agreed, but when facing an overworked underpaid desk attendant who has had to deal with 35 cranky customers before coffee it tends to be a chore for both parties.

    8. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I was once as anti-social as the gp... but I discovered something that I absolutely love about talking with a real person... UPGRADES. If you are friendly, personable (and maybe if you add a tip)... you might get a better room, a jacuzzi suite (nice for relaxing after a long day of travelling!)... who knows! By being an ass you're missing out on all of these possibilities.

      I almost never go for the machine anymore these days... maybe it's also because I'm getting old.

    9. Re:Speed and cost by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Meh, Samalie not entirely wrong. In some circumstances I just want to get done with the check-in quickly. Perhaps I had a long flight, perhaps it's midnight and I want to go to bed, perhaps I'm in a hurry, etc. It's not rude or anti-social... it's the way things work.

      And some people don't realize (or care) that there's a huge line behind them and perhaps showing the clerk pictures of their grand-kids or talking about their kid's soccer game isn't the most sensitive thing to do for everyone else in line. As pleasant as they're being, I sometimes find THAT to be more rude than a guy who's just sighing in annoyance. They're choosing to make people wait because they want to talk to some stranger.

      And face it: showing some stranger pictures of your grand-kids is more for YOUR benefit than their's... showing them to family/friends is another thing, but strangers is just self-gratification.

      For grocery shopping: it's a mixed bag. Sometimes I'll use the cashiers, sometimes a kiosk. It depends on the length of the lines and who's working that evening: as some of cashiers at my store have a hard time with the machines and need the manager for everything.

    10. Re:Speed and cost by jandrese · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is also true at airports. When I do a self-service checkin it's 2 minutes of "scan credit card", hit "decline offer" half a dozen times, and get my printout. If I go to a person they are apparently required to type out War and Peace to complete every single transaction on their terminal and it takes ten times as long to check in.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    11. Re:Speed and cost by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      AS/400 green screen character display archaics from the early 80s are to blame.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    12. Re:Speed and cost by Samalie · · Score: 1

      Definitely agreed.

      I'm not an anti-social asshole (as some have suggested). In this exact scenario, I want to skip any potential lineup, talk, generalized bullshit, and get to sleep.

      I hope I have a great human concierge service, and even just a front desk/bellhop that I can talk to about the area, or any issues I may have. I even love meeting the housekeeper responsible for my room...more towels :)

      I guess I came off harsh...I don't want no humans at all, but anything that gets me in my room, comfortable & resting faster is a good thing in my book :)

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    13. Re:Speed and cost by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing

      It can, but when the human you are interacting with is a desk monkey hired for their appearance and tasked with giving you as little for your money as possible, it probably won't be.

      Quite frankly, with an attitude like yours? I don't think they want much want to talk to you, anyways.

      They don't want to talk to most of the people they talk to, but they do because they're paid to.

      I am less forgiving - because people like you are responsible for the rise of Sirius Cybernetics

      Ah yes, the old "people like you". Except in this case, the people like him are the ones who value efficiency and quality of service. If a machine can give me a higher quality of service than a desk jockey, then neither I nor the machine can possibly be the problem.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Speed and cost by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      AS/400 green screen character display archaics from the early 80s are to blame.

      No, no they aren't. It doesn't matter if you have a GUI or not. Also, they do effectively have a GUI. Those terminals understand fillable fields and the system presents an interface for you to fill out. There's no technical reason it can't ask them for the same information for which it asks you, and present its responses without graphics. Those systems were designed to be changed by the very way you build applications on those mainframes. Change the layouts, change the program, it's easy.

      The problem is that the applications are poorly designed for the purpose of getting you through the airport quickly. I don't know what their actual purpose is, but that's the case.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing. To each their own, I suppose.

      For about 55% of the US population, they are.

      For about 45% of the population, they aren't.

      Introverts are people, too. They're just people who do not want to tell you their whole life story and be best friends with you and invite you to their weekly poker night just because you happen to be selling them a stick of gum today.

    16. Re:Speed and cost by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      "For grocery shopping: it's a mixed bag."

      If I'm only buying one or two items, Kiosk is usually faster, if I have multiple duplicate items, or 10 plus, if I don't get a discount for using the kiosk, then I'm using a cashier. If they don;t want to pay a human to cash me out and bag my goods, then I should get a discount on them. Otherwise, keep somebody employed and use a human cashier whenever possible.

    17. Re:Speed and cost by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing. To each their own, I suppose.

      Right. Some people are extroverts, some are introverts. And that goes for the people checking in, and the receptionists. And plenty of people are already maxed out with the number of people they are dealing with.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    18. Re:Speed and cost by alen · · Score: 1

      i bet they have to type out your name, DL number and other info from your ID to match up to the ticket info.

      if you scan a credit card then that's already an identifying piece of info so they can get it from the database. since you have the CC in hand, you are probably the person who bought the ticket.

      security and lessening financial liability due to fraud. say you steal someone's CC to buy a ticket. you go to the counter with your ID and it will be easier to flag you. same for TSA requirements

    19. Re:Speed and cost by Daetrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmmm, GP says they'd rather avoid people when they're stressed and tired and not in the mood.

      You then respond by getting judgmental. You toss out a platitude about the benefits of human interaction and then proceed to insult them. Cause there's nothing like being snide to encourage human interaction. (I guess being insulted could technically count as "invigorating", not so sure about the "refreshing" part though.)

      You know, just going by the sample comments, i think i'd rather talk to the GP when the GP is in the mood to talk, and just avoid you. Unless you want to make the defense that you're currently stressed and tired and not really up to decent human interaction at the moment?

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    20. Re:Speed and cost by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Imagine for a second I'm a poor bastard that has been travelling for the last 30 hours. Between flights, security, check-in-delays, etc...I'm fucking BEAT.

      I just want to get in my fucking hotel room as fast as is humanly possible.

      In other words, you're the perfect person who the kiosk can go and say "Check me in now" where I can add a whole pile of addons to your room (with charge, of course) and you'll happily pay for it because you agreed to it.

      Just like how some things (like Java installer) can go and bundle in Chrome and other crap with your software installation, you can bet the kiosk will too - knowing people will be too tired to bother reading it out. Of course, if you use the clerk, they'll have asked you, but if you use the kiosk, it's just a checkmark you'll probalby miss.

      Sounds like a great business model to have, actually - I wonder why kiosks don't do it now...

      As for not wanting to interact - remember that next time you have something slightly out of the ordinary you need. Like maybe trying to dispute the charges because of the failure to decline kiosk offers - it's a lot harder to convince a machine than a human. Or want something special done to your mean that's not offered.

      Humans are flexible, machines are not. The problem with kiosks is, while 90% of the time the defaults suit your needs, the 10% is when you'll need a human. And if that's the case, 0% will there be one to actually assist you when the time comes because management feels the clerk was redundant. (Like say the credit card terminal goes down - the clerk will probably do everything else (like get you your key) and charge it later, while the kiosk will sit there staring back at you with "Authorization Failure").

    21. Re:Speed and cost by holostarr · · Score: 1

      I think people are missing the point, regardless of why people are picking a terminal over human interaction, human contact is more and more in decline. It seems the bigger our cities and communities get, the less we wish to interact with one another.

    22. Re:Speed and cost by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      I've probably made mention before that I'm an asocial type of guy. Just call me an asocial asshole, and everything is good. I don't want to talk to a receptionist, I don't want to deal with some toad carrying my luggage, I just want my room.

      BUT - I'd rather deal with the talkative receptionist, and the toad, and whoever else, than the machine.

      When things go drastically WRONG, there is zero satisfaction in trying to strangle the damned machine. COME HERE TOAD!!!! (choke the toad until his eyes bug out) Now I feel better.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    23. Re:Speed and cost by Zalbik · · Score: 1

      Also, it's almost self-fulfilling that the kiosk's will be faster.

      Why do people stand in line to talk to the single check-in person at the airport when there are several available self check-in terminals? Typically because they have some issue that the terminal can't deal with (e.g. unconventional luggage, specific seating requirements, lost booking code, etc).

      The kiosk's handle the 95% of "I just need to perform the standard tasks". The poor desk jockeys are left with the 5% of exception cases. That combined with the fact that a company can put in a dozen kiosk's for less than the price of a single employee makes it the much faster choice.

    24. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure where you have checked in lately.

      Now, on the other hand, the only thing that helps on a kiosk is, perhaps, that I know better the answers to questions than the person behind the counter (which acts as middle man), I know how my reservation number and/or spell correctly my name.
      Now I'm so used to tell my last name and spell it right after, that people behind the counter gets it really quick and I don't have to wait too long.

    25. Re:Speed and cost by Zalbik · · Score: 2

      Sounds like a great business model to have, actually - I wonder why kiosks don't do it now...

      Cause when I go to check out, I'm certainly going to notice those charges, and won't be beat and in a hurry to get to my room. At that point I'll hunt down a clerk/manager and refuse to pay for items they tried to sneak by.

      Many companies are wise enough to realize that trying to trick customers into paying for things they don't want is a stupid business plan. I really don't get why software installers haven't figured this out.

      Personally, if an installer pre-selects stupid search toolbars / add-ons / extras that have nothing to do with the software I'm installing, I typically just hit cancel and go find some other piece of software that will do what I want.

    26. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's also the language barrier. If you're in a hotel or an airport very likely you're not from that area. If they don't speak your native language, sometimes reading is easier than listening and you don't feel pressure.

    27. Re:Speed and cost by Zeromous · · Score: 2

      I'll take an AS/400 form over a web form ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

      To a pro they are far faster for data entry than any GUI.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    28. Re:Speed and cost by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Informative

      That only works if the human has some level of decision-making power. These days, many humans you interact with in a business context are essentially front-ends to the software. The computer says you are assigned to room #231, that's where you go: Because the computer also made sure that the cleaners were scheduled beforehand.

      What happens if the employee does decide to upgrade you? They get fired, even if it's over something as simple as putting a few extra chocolate sprinkles on your food: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/09/26/mcdonald-s-fired-me-after-sprinkling-too-much-chocolate-on-a-mcflurry-91466-31904726/

    29. Re:Speed and cost by jandrese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So why not let me swipe my card and auto-fill the fields for those poor people at the desk? It is seriously dumb to force them to type all of that stuff in.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    30. Re:Speed and cost by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      A properly coded GUI or website is just as data-entry friendly than a green-screen.

      Hell you don't even need to have a field-exit key. Just tab to the next field.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    31. Re:Speed and cost by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      No, I wasn't missing the point. I was focusing on the micro more than the macro. Yeh: I agree that on a macro scale human interaction is on the decline. ATMs, working from home, automated phone responses, etc. But if you read the whole tread you'll see I'm responding to the tree and not the underlining issue.

      The grandparent (Jeremiah Cornelius) was saying how there must be something wrong with the great-grandparent (Samalie) for wanting to use kiosks more than the people when certain situations warrant it... and that Jeremiah is glad Samalie wouldn't be in his line for being rude loner. Because of Samalie's example: after a 30-hour flight he's beat and just wants it done.

      My response was that: it's not rude nor is there anything wrong with him in that case. One method is quicker than the other in general, and doesn't have to cater to people that slow the lines down due to their loneliness. After a umpteen-hour flights, you don't want to wait in line or have small talk.

    32. Re:Speed and cost by bhcompy · · Score: 1

      Because there are too many damned people in our concrete jungles and many of us spend all day talking to customers and coworkers via face-to-face, phone, email, IM, and other means. The brain needs downtime to process things and rejuvenate our state of mind.

    33. Re:Speed and cost by Chelloveck · · Score: 2

      I am less forgiving - because people like you are responsible for the rise of Sirius Cybernetics, the robotics company behind some of the galaxy's most aggravating robots. "Share and enjoy!"

      Go stick your head in a pig!

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    34. Re:Speed and cost by cusco · · Score: 2

      Good luck finding a web developer who understands the concept of tabbing from one field to another. Something as simple as a remote access login should be username-Tab-password-Tab-RSA key-Tab-login, but on three of our customers' login page the tab takes you from password or RSA key to some other random link on the page, and one doesn't allow tabbing between fields at all. In the majority of them you have to click in the Username field anyway, which is just plain stupid. You went to the login page to log in, shouldn't the page be ready to accept your data? /end rant

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    35. Re:Speed and cost by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now what I'd love is an automated check-out at the liquor store, because getting to know the cashiers *there* gets a little embarrassing.

    36. Re:Speed and cost by Zeromous · · Score: 1

      Markup is good for a lot of things. Forms is not one of them.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    37. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      C'mon. Look at it as an opportunity to flirt with the bored girl.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    38. Re:Speed and cost by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      I enjoy chatting with people when they are attending me. In the end of a lonesome and tiring trip, some human contact is refreshing.

      That being said, I don't mind the machine check-in. We better start getting used to it, if it saves costs, it's the future. I'm sure the day is not far when we'll be waited by machines at cafés and restaurants.

    39. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Americans.

      Who will ever understand those people?

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    40. Re:Speed and cost by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The problem is the hotel not having enough staff to help you check in. I noticed that they employ a lot more people in Japan so you don't have to wait around in shops or restaurants as much, yet things are not noticeably more expensive (although it is difficult to judge due to fluctuating exchange rates).

      The machines never seem to work properly either. At the supermarket you need staff to authorize alcohol purchases anyway, and the damn thing always gets confused by some item being one microgramme lighter than expected or your ten Pound note having a slightly creased corner. Plus you have to do someone else's job for them but don't get paid or any kind of discount.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    41. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's almost as if there exists more than one type of person on the planet Earth. Who'da thunk it?

      Lesson time. Grab a seat, and prepare for some learnin'. Yes, I'm well aware of your 3 digit ID, but clearly you lack knowledge in a few fields.

      Y'see, people have a tendancy to fall on a line somewhere between Extrovert and Introvert. Now, people who are closer to the Extrovert side of things rather enjoy human interaction. Being around people, chatting with people, and general human contact IS what recharges them. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, on the Introvert side of things (where myself, and I imagine Samalie falls), talking to people and being amongst a crowd of people literally drains us. WE recharge by way of solitude, peace, and quiet.

      So, while you may find human interaction invigorating and psychologically refreshing, others find that exact same human interaction tiring, and psychologically draining. I imagine if you had to sit quietly in a room, left to your own devices, for several days with absolutely no human interaction, you would probably be going bananas and need to get out and interact with others. Me... I'd absolutely fucking love it.

      And your thought of "Thank god. He went straight to the kiosk..." is probably highly off too. Being an introvert doesn't directly translate to "bitchy, crabby asshole who's going to make your day miserable". I can be just as kind and friendly as anyone else. Hell, I've done phone support for a decade, and currently do a lot that involves answering the phone. Am I bitchy and miserable and ruin people's days? No! In fact, it's downright uncommon for one of my clients to NOT think I'm friendly, patient and generally great to deal with. I've been commended multiple times from the regional manager on how some of my clients give me glowing praise when he visits them.

      But on my breaks, I don't enjoy small talk. If someone starts it with me, I'll be friendly and all, but I'd much, MUCH more prefer to just relax in silence, perhaps read the newspaper or whatnot, and generally enjoy the quiet. I'd prefer if I didn't have to answer the phone at all, because I simply prefer to not speak to others most of the time.

      But that doesn't translate to 'prick you don't want to talk to'.

      So please recalibrate your emotion detector. Just because we would prefer to check in using a computer and not talk to a person doesn't mean we hate all people. It means we prefer to not chat with people, which in itself doesn't necessarily mean we're miserable to talk to.

    42. Re:Speed and cost by Fwipp · · Score: 2

      Why do you think I buy my sex toys on Amazon?

    43. Re:Speed and cost by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing.

      Agreed, and after traveling five hours by myself I'd welcome a chatty desk clerk, especially if he can clue me as to a good place to unwind. But after five hours in a cattle car? I really don't want to talk to any humans I don't know personally, as I've most likely had my fill of them.

    44. Re:Speed and cost by BergZ · · Score: 1

      I was going to ask exactly the same question!
      When I imagine myself buying a plane ticket and sales person asks for my credit card *before* they have given me a price-quote: I'm going to be suspicious.
      "Why do you need my credit card? I haven't told you where I'm going and you haven't told me how much it will cost."

      --
      Warning: This sig is not thread safe. For more information see Slashdot's sig policy.
    45. Re:Speed and cost by jjsimp · · Score: 2

      I guess that is an age thing. Most of the younger adults care what everybody thinks about them. Us 35+ers, couldn't care less about what the person at the counters thinks of us. We'll stroll up to the counter with a basket full of alcohol, correct sized condoms, and femine hygiene products for the wife.

    46. Re:Speed and cost by zarmanto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ...when facing an overworked underpaid desk attendant...

      Bingo. This is exactly why I came to the comments of this post... to call "bull" on Nuance, for the very reason that you've already cited:

      ...experts Nuance who believe we simply never want to talk to a real human again...

      Nuance assumes that people don't want to have conversations with customer service reps -- but what they fail to consider is that most people do indeed enjoy human interaction... when it's actually human interaction. Whether it's the rep behind the counter at a hotel with their fake plastic smile and artificially exaggerated concern for your exhaustion, or the cashier at your local supermarket with their scowl and monotonous droning "Thank you... have a nice day..." it's all just forced and... well, predictably inhuman.

      Generally speaking, people love interacting with their friends -- and for some of us, that even includes family -- and that type of camaraderie has largely been lost in today's customer services... the small town where you know Doris behind the register at the supermarket and your good buddy Joe who pumps your gas for you is gone. So the reaction from far too many people in "customer service" roles are, quite frankly, already so robotic as to offer no real advantages over the automated check-in kiosk and automated check-out registers... so why wouldn't I want the efficiency of an actual robot?

      Now, mind you, if more companies were intentionally hiring employees who show genuine customer focused attitudes -- for example, in the same fashion as the folks running Chick-fil-a seem to have done -- then the pendulum might start swinging back the other way. In the absence of that, I'll go to the kiosk at every opportunity.

    47. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Airports are designed for the exact opposite of speed. They are designed to make you wait in queues and walk across the whole terminal so they have more time to screen you and your baggage, and to sell you overpriced stuff.

    48. Re:Speed and cost by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      What's interesting is how different our perceptions of speed or ease are when dealing with a human rather than a computer. When you're talking to a person and they misunderstand something, ("I'm sorry, did you say 24-G or 24-B?") we don't mind so much ("Oh, no problem, I said G, as in Golf."). We understand humans are only human, and can easily misunderstand. But when the computer voice says, "I'm sorry, I didn't get that. Please repeat your selection," we explode. "OH my god these stupid machines! I just want to talk to a real person!"

      We expect because it's a machine it should be 'perfect,' but since it can't be, we get pissed, but aren't near so unforgiving with humans.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    49. Re:Speed and cost by kermidge · · Score: 1

      When things are going well.... sure, a brief, simple transaction with a machine is OK. (wait - can one really 'transact' with a machine?) But then, in my life, when things are going well I don't need to deal with a machine, unless you wish to count online banking and a healthcare site for appointments, refills, etc.

      When things are not going well, I most assuredly need to speak with a human; sometimes, a succession of humans.

      On a side note, most of the phone robots I've dealt with the past few years are definitely designed for the convenience of everyone except the customer, and they're getting worse.

      Starting with "Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line until our next customer service representative can take your call." No - if my call was important to you, you'd answer the fucking phone. For the company, it's a way to chew up my minutes and keep labor costs lower.

      Then the menus - interminable, often irrelevant, sometimes garbled. Many today don't even offer the option to speak with a human, and the traditional default "0" is no-op.

      The use of the hold time for dispensing information and ads by recorded voice really annoys me - if I'm waiting for a human voice to answer the call, having to listen to another human voice is plain wrong. Give me some moderately inoffensive music as was done in 'the old days'.

    50. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Sorry. I didn't mean to hit your personal bitch button.

      There was a fair amount of humour, in my posting, which you seem to have overlooked in your response to a perceived injury.

      I myself, am BOTH an introvert and an extrovert. I believe this can be modal behavior, not predestined fundamental affect.

      There is enough impersonal isolation in this society. And it is self-perpetuating. The less we interact personally, the more focused we become on our own self as the righteous center of situation and circumstance. Retracting from others, in arbitrary situations, we lose the ability to interact - the fundamentals of kindness, goodwill and of charity.

      Exchanging smiles - even in the context of an obligatory commercial exchange - leaves everyone involved better for having done so. Cracking the first smile is not so hard, even for shy persons. I speak from among their number.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    51. Re:Speed and cost by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I've noticed this at the bank as well. I used to have to get change for laundry at the bank. It was a hassle, because even if there was only a couple people in front of you, most of them would spend at least 5 minutes with whatever their problem was. Which is exactly the opposite of the people at the automated tellers. Most would be done within a 30 seconds. You sometimes get the rare case of the person who decides to pay 5 bills at the automated teller, but that's a rarity, and probably still faster than had they done the same at the teller.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    52. Re:Speed and cost by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Most of the airlines in Canada now have check in agents who patrol the self-service check in machines helping people. If you can't or don't want to use the machine, the agent will use it for you. So I guess they did upgrade the check in agents' terminals... and moved them out where the customer can use them too.

    53. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Without empirical evidence to support my claim, I'd like to assert that we are only truly alive, when we are in the company of others.

      That said, of course this doesn't mean advocating the diminishment of all introversion.

      But life throws circumstance at all of us. The poster I responded to has the common narcissism - peeved at have to deal with people incidental to HIS experience. The desk clerk also, may well think "Stuck here all day, and this grumbler shows up at MY job."

      A smile and a "thank you" can go a long way to ease any sense of difficulty or fatigue...

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    54. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      General Atomics Aeronautical

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    55. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This exactly. Usually when you have a problem the employee says " well the computer says" then cites some monolithic corporate rule that doesn't make sense. There is usually no manual mode to correct things.

    56. Re:Speed and cost by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      The joys of web "developers" using WYSIWYG editors.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    57. Re:Speed and cost by jemenake · · Score: 1

      People are (generally) slow. Inefficient. Worse..talkative.

      I was trying to explain to a friend's parents what "all of this stuff with texting is all about". I explained to them that, when I call you on the phone, there's a lot of "Hey", "How's it goin'?", "Good, good. And you?"... until you get to the "..so, the reason I called is:". All of this is to "bring up" the connection. If we were modems, this would be all of that hiss and warbling you hear. If we were dogs, we'd be sniffing each other's butts. And then, at the end, there's the same "tearing down" of the connection you constructed: "So, that's all I called about", "Oh, okay. I guess I'll talk to you later, then", "okay, later", "okay, bye", "bye".

      That's a lot of overhead when you just want a quick answer or are delivering a quick bit of info.

      And another friend of mine has an interesting theory about the Japanese fetish with vending machines. In Japan, I'm told, there are vending machines everywhere and you can get anything from them. My buddy thinks that this is because Japan has so much protocol for human interaction: how you greet people depending up your relative statuses, when you bow, how you receive business cards, etc. Often, they just want a goddamn box of Cheese Nips (ba-dump-bump!) without the hassle. So... vending machines.

      So, I agree... bring on the machines!

    58. Re:Speed and cost by Zeromous · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Coded in vi, notepad or dreamweaver, I fail to see the connection.

      It just so happens that a CSS whiz is no more a programmer than a programmer is a UI/psychology professional. It also happens that a UI/psychology isn't very good at either of these.

      During these times we find that what is simple often works best (until it is replaced (but usually augmented) by something even more simple). Keyboard meet mouse. Wait you mean you want to take my keyboard!!!!!?

      AS/400 forms are simple, follow basic consistent rules and reliably submit/check data. They were developed to be as simple, as lightweight and fast as possible, by very knowledgable (even if green) scientists (not ajax wizards with something to prove). They counted keystrokes, error rates and workflow shifts. In this area AS/400 is just hard to beat.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
    59. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That girl would rather be bored than put up with some nerd hitting on her.

    60. Re:Speed and cost by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't like shopping, unless I'm buying, and I've already got one who doesn't want me to have another one. Also, oftentimes that girl is a guy, and I don't swing that way.

      I'm sure that if I were bleeding money I'd go someplace where they pay someone well enough to where I want to talk to them. I'm not. Consequently I simply want to deal with the details. I don't pretend they're not there or anything, if they seem interesting I'll talk to them, but the people arguing that people are missing a chance for human interaction are missing the point. Sometimes, I want to give that human interaction a miss, and it's nice to be able to do so. Sometimes, I want human interaction, and at those times it's nice to be able to have it. I prefer choice, and to not be hassled for it unless it's hurting someone. Saying that choosing the option that involves less employment is hurting someone is missing another point entirely.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    61. Re:Speed and cost by LateArthurDent · · Score: 1

      Human interaction can be invigorating, and psychologically refreshing.

      I'm an introvert. Human interaction is energy-draining. If I'm in a great and energetic mood, if talking to people takes too much of my time during a day, I'll feel like I've been traveling for the last 30 hours.

      Quite frankly, with an attitude like yours? I don't think they want much want to talk to you, anyways.

      I wish. However, they don't generally try to get rid of me fast enough. They try to chit-chat. I don't want to be impolite, so I smile and try my best to always act courteous, but one of the reasons I prefer going through kiosks and machines is because people don't tend to just keep their questions to the information they need to send me on my way. See, it's not the fact that I'm interacting with a human that bothers me, it's the fact that the interaction is revolving around things I don't care about, and it's slowing me down.

      I'm not saying that because of people like me, we should be moving in this direction, because I understand introverts are a minority. I'm mostly agreeing with your "to each their own" comment and offering another perspective.

      I am less forgiving - because people like you are responsible for the rise of Sirius Cybernetics, the robotics company behind some of the galaxy's most aggravating robots. "Share and enjoy!"

      Actually, I'm not going to take the blame for that one. Robots are cheaper than humans, that's why they started replacing humans with them in the service industry. But extroverts like you complained. In order to make you happy, they decided they needed to give robots real human personalities. I certainly don't want that any more than you do, that's what I'm trying to run away from.

    62. Re:Speed and cost by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      IVR systems?

      I speak RP English, and they appear to recognise my "yes" and "no" with about 50% success rate, and, AFAICR, I have never ever had any other word recognised. I guess IVR systems require you to have an American accent. I can't imagine the 50% of Londoners for whom Engiish is a second language fare very well!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    63. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Flirtin' ain't hittin'.

      And, you got to read level of flattering attention - and respond appropriately.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    64. Re:Speed and cost by Shirogitsune · · Score: 1

      Phone call == TCP/IP Text Message == UDP

    65. Re:Speed and cost by postbigbang · · Score: 3

      Might also be anxiety disorder. There are lots of people that fear conversational interaction, for many, many reasons. They perceive machines as being faster, and never able to cause them personality problems, like being curt, funny, or other emotional responses that they're not good at interacting with.

      There are some really shy and introverted people out there, and IVRs and kiosking are heaven-sent for them. I don't include myself in the mix, but know many who will happily avoid humanity out of anxiety, fear, or inability to interact well with others, spontaneously.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    66. Re:Speed and cost by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      The parent has a very good point.

      Plus, there are only four or five human desk attendants at the airport and . . . 50+ kiosks. If I have a choice of dozens of empty kiosks or waiting in line for 10 minutes to talk to a person, I would have to be brain-dead, or afraid of technology to wait in line.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    67. Re:Speed and cost by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

      I don't believe human contact is in decline at all. Kiosks and the like save me time, and allow me to spend time with the humans I like, respect, and appreciate, rather than the poorly trained, poorly paid customer service people I used to have to deal with.

      Waiting in long hotel and airport lines is not "human contact" -- it's pointless alone time.

    68. Re:Speed and cost by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      ...desk monkey hired for their appearance...

      I think the manager that hires the majority of the people for their appearance needs to be fired. I see way too many troglodytes mashing keys in stores. There are a few attractive people working behind counters, but for the most part they are hideous creatures that belong under a bridge or in a carnival freak show.

    69. Re:Speed and cost by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

      I find it amusing that Random Dick on the internet is complaining about "impersonal isolation in this society." Here's a smile, #137, go outside and share it for a change. :-)

    70. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next time look at the girls eyes, she's usually rolling her eyes at your attention, or making eye contact with the next person in line pleading for someone to help her out.

    71. Re:Speed and cost by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      And that even assumes you're talking *to* a human.

      90% of the time often in human interaction is interacting with *nothing*. You're either queued in line to talk to a person or on hold listening to bad music waiting for a human.

      I don't mind human interaction. I mind spending 3x as long as the interaction will take waiting to talk to someone.

      Also the nice thing about Kiosks is that you can get a ton of data on screen through a GUI. Imagine how long it would take to review a credit card statement online. "Ok read me this month's statement..." it would take an hour. And then you can't visualize and compare. Or imagine picking a seat on an airplane "I want to be near the wing but not too far back but..."

      Similarly if you have some really complex and abstract problem that nobody would ever think to code into a machine--human interaction is invaluable.

    72. Re:Speed and cost by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Now, mind you, if more companies were intentionally hiring employees who show genuine customer focused attitudes -- for example, in the same fashion as the folks running Chick-fil-a seem to have done -- then the pendulum might start swinging back the other way. In the absence of that, I'll go to the kiosk at every opportunity.

      There aren't really "genuine" customer focused attitudes, because the people in these roles don't have a reason to care. As you already pointed out, they don't know the person they're interacting with personally because they aren't the clerk at a small town store. They work in a larger city where they will meet folks they will literally never see again their entire lives, or in a call center where they may be talking to people from across the country. They normally are treated like easily-replaceable cogs by their employer, so they will treat the customers the same way, because they are just as replaceable for larger businesses. The loss of a single customer isn't going to show up on the SEC filings. With people being micro-managed and time-audited like they are machines it's no wonder they will see the people they interact with like they would a part on a conveyor belt among a hundred others.

      Add to this they normally do not benefit from the difference between a "great" interaction, and a "good enough" interaction. "Going the extra mile" is something that usually only lines the pockets of the people higher up with repeat business from the customer, and when they encourage their employees to go the extra mile on every interaction, it stops being truly "extra" and just becomes another way of saying "work harder for the same pay".

    73. Re:Speed and cost by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that we won't want real human interaction, until it can be automated. Because that's the only way you're ever going to get most large companies to provide what you're asking for, if it costs less than paying someone minimum wage to plaster a fake smile on their face and ask for the 325th time that day "did you find everything ok?".

      Incidentally, what would a world look like where the cashier at the grocery store has a fundamentally stronger theory of mind than the average human?

    74. Re:Speed and cost by David_W · · Score: 1

      The use of the hold time for dispensing information and ads by recorded voice really annoys me - if I'm waiting for a human voice to answer the call, having to listen to another human voice is plain wrong. Give me some moderately inoffensive music as was done in 'the old days'.

      I'm totally with you on this... for one, it is much easier to just throw it on speakerphone at a low volume, then zone out until I hear a voice on the other end. Having the voice-over disrupts that so I have to pay attention. Also, after hearing the same thing for about the fifth time... well, it gets old fast.

    75. Re:Speed and cost by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      Reverse Polish English? :-)

      I didn't know they instructed this in public school.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    76. Re:Speed and cost by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      The "discount" for doing self checkout is getting out of there faster (the vast majority of the time.. yes, sometimes there are mixups, and having to get some things authorized by the 1 employee for 4-8 self checkout counters can be an issue).

    77. Re:Speed and cost by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Want to reduce your personnel costs? Get a reservation system that doesn't require so much typing and you could have a single clerk at the desk instead of three.

      While not specifically airline reservation systems, this general sort of thing is one that has happened multiple times on the reality show "Undercover Boss". They see how slow, confusing, repetitive, and error-prone the various computer systems the grunts have to use are. (Sure, they're better than NO computer system, but still bad.) The latest one I remember was inventory scanning at a sporting goods store where they had to scan each item, then hit a key on the keyboard. Doesn't sound bad, but it made the process much more of a pain than it needed to be.

    78. Re:Speed and cost by jafac · · Score: 1

      This is all fine and dandy, until the day you get to the kiosk, and your choices are:
      A) Room with ads displayed on all 4 walls.
      B) Room with ads displayed on 3 walls.
      C) Room with ads displayed on 2 walls, and bathroom.

      THEN. . . you'll probably want to talk to a human about choice D).

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    79. Re:Speed and cost by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --The only automated system that I've really liked using is Walmart's prescription-refill phone service. It's dead easy.

      --Aside from the occasional movie-ticket kiosk and maybe paying a bill by phone, literally EVERY OTHER TIME that I can think of, I'm pressing 0 on the phone menu or practially shouting "Operator!" to try and get to a human.

      --The thing that a lot of so-called "modern" companies don't understand is that we DON'T want to talk to somebody with an 8-syllable name in India, we want somebody on the phone that is actually going to be able to **help us** in a polite and professional manner.

      --Real Customer Service(TM) needs to make a comeback - and to do that, they need to stop paying CS reps peanuts - and soul-killing them in phone centers with crazy rules, authoritarian manglement, and call-time limits.

      / Netflix got my money (and continues to get it) because they deliberately made a corporate decision to keep their support phone center in the US instead of outsourcing to another country. I may be only 1 guy, but I like to think my loyalty helps.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    80. Re:Speed and cost by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I like the kiosks things at the airport, etc.

      What I can NOT stand, is the damned automated voice phone things that insist on your talking to them on the phone, rather than pushing a number.

      I don't like them in general, due to if I have a problem, which is usually why I'm on the phone...I want a human to talk to, but if I do have to go through a phone menu, PLEASE...just tell me a number to push....it sucks having to talk and sometime shout at the damned phone, especially at work, and the call is not work related.

      :)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    81. Re:Speed and cost by sjames · · Score: 1

      Or the Kiosk has a bizarrely worded multiple choice question with 3 answers that don't sound at all like your answer (and two that seem to be the same answer in different words).

    82. Re:Speed and cost by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      There are a few attractive people working behind counters, but for the most part they are hideous creatures that belong under a bridge or in a carnival freak show.

      It depends on where you go. If you're going to a family-owned and -run establishment then it's pretty evenly distributed. If you're talking about anything in Vegas they know they value of appearance. Most of the time if I go to a big chain hotel anywhere they have some reasonably pretty people at the counter, or at least young and relatively unspoilt. Basically the priorities are do I think you'll steal from me, will people recoil from you in horror, can you enter data into the computer semi-accurately, can you do simple mathematics, more or less in that order.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    83. Re:Speed and cost by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      You sound like an extrovert. Have you considered the idea that some people may not want to interact with others for reasons other than anxiety, fear, or just the lack of ability (whatever that means) to do it?

      I avoid human interaction, especially in the US because I don't much like people in general and Americans in particular. I simply prefer machines. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with me that needs to be fixed.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    84. Re:Speed and cost by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      I am an introvert, and am trying to explain introversion to others. In some cases, perceived introversion is actually anxiety disorder. In other cases, it's who you are, like being neurotypical, as opposed to having an autistic brain. I associate no blame, only attempt to educate that some people don't want interaction--- for a wide variety of reasons, including yours. As an introvert, I don't care because I don't fear interactions, rather I don't mind talking to people. If the kiosk or IVR gets the job done more quickly, I appreciate that. I yell at IVRs because they're programmed in such insipid ways. But that's me.... and you, are you.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    85. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One story does not a trend make.

    86. Re:Speed and cost by MurukeshM · · Score: 1

      Check the Hitchhiker's Guide.

    87. Re:Speed and cost by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      I just want to get in my fucking hotel room as fast as is humanly possible.

      ... without having to learn Spanish to boot

    88. Re:Speed and cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chick-fil-a is not genuine. They're pretty much required to say those things. Plus, it's time-wasting. I love to be treated politely as much as the next guy, but given

      "Your total is $3.28. Please drive around."

      versus

      "Your total is $3.28. It will be my pleasure to serve you at the window."

      I'll take the first one, thanks. It's not your pleasure; it's your job, and you're wasting my time with your excess fluffy syllables. "Please," "thank you," and "you're welcome" are ALL you need.

  2. There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems 90% of the time I can't use the IVR since for that kind of thing I would have used the web page, which means I am now stuck trying to get a human which is getting harder and harder. I suspect that this is intentional, the longer you have to play around with the IVR the shorter the queue wait times are in the call center.

    1. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems 90% of the time I can't use the IVR since for that kind of thing I would have used the web page, which means I am now stuck trying to get a human which is getting harder and harder. I suspect that this is intentional, the longer you have to play around with the IVR the shorter the queue wait times are in the call center.

      If you want a human in the IVR, just hit 0 repeatedly as soon as it picks up. They will transfer you directly to a CSR - every.. single.. time..

    2. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by Lifyre · · Score: 1

      Except when they just disconnect you. Which has happened to me more than one time. However I've found in those cases it is almost always effective to start swearing at the IVR and it gets you over to a CSR.

      --
      I'll meet you at the intersection of "Should be" and "Reality"
    3. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by compro01 · · Score: 4, Informative

      You might try looking up the company at GetHuman. They've got a pretty good database of the arcane paths you need to follow through the IVR systems to get to a person.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    4. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by neminem · · Score: 1

      http://gethuman.com/

      Last time I had an issue with a major company (I think it was FedEx, it might've been UPS), their website failed horribly, I called their support line, tried several times to speak to anyone, and eventually got auto-disconnected after waiting on hold for a bit. In frustration, googled how to talk to a person there, ended up on that site. Immediately got an actual person, and a minute later, everything was fixed. It's a pretty awesome site.

    5. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Except when they just disconnect you. Which has happened to me more than one time. However I've found in those cases it is almost always effective to start swearing at the IVR and it gets you over to a CSR.

      Swearing at computers gets you to humans? Your sig is uncannily appropriate.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how about that airline food, it sure sucks! AMIRIGHT???

      Troll.

    7. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by X0563511 · · Score: 1
      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    8. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by hawguy · · Score: 1

      It seems 90% of the time I can't use the IVR since for that kind of thing I would have used the web page, which means I am now stuck trying to get a human which is getting harder and harder. I suspect that this is intentional, the longer you have to play around with the IVR the shorter the queue wait times are in the call center.

      If you want a human in the IVR, just hit 0 repeatedly as soon as it picks up. They will transfer you directly to a CSR - every.. single.. time..

      IVR programmers know that everyone knows that trick, so now "0" will often take you to the main menu.

    9. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or just don't say or press anything. some people still have rotary dials and a patient loathing for automated voices.

    10. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Except when they just disconnect you.

      I get "I'm sorry, that is not a valid extension" sometimes, and then the IVR starts over.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    11. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Except when they just disconnect you.

      I get "I'm sorry, that is not a valid extension" sometimes, and then the IVR starts over.

      You don't by chance have a speakerphone active when you press buttons, do you? On my mobile, when it's in speaker mode, pressing a button once somehow causes an echo which is received as the same or a different number. It takes multiple digits as an attempt to contact an extension. I have to put it in speakerphone mode, activate the "mute" function, then it works like a charm.

    12. Re:There has to be a way to get out of the IVR by sjames · · Score: 1

      Often, yes. The assumption is that if you're swearing, that means the IVR is making matters worse and they dump you off on a humen before you become determined to cancel whatever product or service they offer.

  3. Place item in bagging area by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Place item in bagging area how about place a real person at the check out.

    1. Re:Place item in bagging area by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      I make a point of only using human checkouts. If everyone did this, they would be perceived as an expensive waste of hardware, rather than a convenient money saver for the supermarket.

      Human checkouts are faster. I can concentrate on my task (packing), the checkout person can do theirs (scanning). Specialization is what all efficient production lines are about. So robot checkouts are not superior for the customer, they are superior for the store.

      People still use them. Because the line at them is shorter. Probably because people hate using them... UNLESS they are running late with only a few items in the basket, when a short line outweighs the throughput efficiency of a human operator. And the store can cram 4 of them into the same area that 2 humans used to occupy, making up for the reduced throughput AND enabling them to fire an employee (they have 1 person supervise the 4 robo-checkouts).

    2. Re:Place item in bagging area by james_shoemaker · · Score: 1

      At my grocery store my job is taking the items out of the cart and putting them on the conveyor. The store has people that scan/check, pack things into bags, and place them in my car. The only time I use automated checking is if I have only a couple of items. You actually have to pack your own items in bags? I hope that never comes to Iowa.

    3. Re:Place item in bagging area by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Personally, I would rather see the technology develop to the point that I don't even have to scan my groceries, just drop them into the bag. If that means RFID in packaging so be it, my trunk is made of metal and I own a microwave for any edge cases.

      Hopefully this will eventually advance to the point where most of us can do our shopping online, which will save us a lot of effort and time which we can use for meaningful, voluntary human interaction.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Place item in bagging area by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      The best reason to use the robot checkouts is that the people why typically take the longest at checkouts (old people, check writers etc) tend to use the human checkouts. Also, the robot checkout is a pretty known quantity. Nothing worse than hitting a human checkout where the checker gets you through in the time the next checker over gets two or three people. Also the robo-checker tends to have a uni-queue at the times it has a queue at all. Definitely room for some Clooney-esque optimization.

    5. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I make a point of only using automated checkouts. The human checkouts tend to have longer lines, and shoppers with much fuller shopping carts. From this perspective automated checkouts are faster. Unless you get behind a customer who has no idea what they're doing. But I put myself through college as a part-time cashier at Toys-R-Us, so my throughput is generally the same as (or even better than) the current human cashiers.

      TL;DR - Your preference works for you, not for everyone.

    6. Re:Place item in bagging area by Richy_T · · Score: 2

      This is the way it is in England as my American wife found out when she stood there watching the groceries pile up the first time she went shopping there. To me it makes sense. I have nothing better to do and I have more of an interest in making sure my groceries are stacked properly. Wal mart doesn't even have separate baggers, the checker does it so that just means more time and longer queues at the checkout.

    7. Re:Place item in bagging area by Dracos · · Score: 1

      THIS.

      Self-checkouts at stores are a dereliction of customer service. From my totally unscientific observations of them remaining unused while there are lines at the real checkouts, most people don't like them.

    8. Re:Place item in bagging area by Dracos · · Score: 1

      The fact that Walmart generally only has half as many lanes open as it needs at any given time is also a factor.

      I chalk this up as more evidence that corporations consider their non-executive workforce a liability rather than an asset.

    9. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a side effect of minimum wage being much closer to a typical wage, I believe.

    10. Re:Place item in bagging area by flink · · Score: 1

      This is the way it is in England as my American wife found out when she stood there watching the groceries pile up the first time she went shopping there. To me it makes sense. I have nothing better to do and I have more of an interest in making sure my groceries are stacked properly.

      Add managing a screaming kid or two and you will appreciate the convenience and added efficiency a dedicated bagger brings to the equation ;)

    11. Re:Place item in bagging area by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I love them, I use them whenever I can. If getting alcohol through one did not involve a human I would use them easily twice as much.

      No line to wait in, no 70 year old cashier to tell me about her entire life story while lazily packing my bags, and I can toss out the receipt right away in the trash at the self checkout.

      When I was a kid they had some RFID commercials that suggested at one point you would be able to just walk out with groceries and have you CC billed, where is that?

    12. Re:Place item in bagging area by cusco · · Score: 2

      I also make a point of going to the human checkout, because even though cashier is not a great job, it's still a job and that's still one more person employed and able to feed their family through their own labor.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:Place item in bagging area by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      That's the most annoying requirement of all.

      Home Depot? Tell me Ms. computer, how am I supposed to put this 6' long shovel in the bagging area, and what's the point?

    14. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't you leave the snot nosed little brats at home when you shop? Put them in a cage or something?

    15. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      people...take the longest at checkouts (old people, check writers etc)

      The worst by far has to be the coupon people. They really need a special line for these people.

    16. Re:Place item in bagging area by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      They actually show cased this tech when RFID first came out. I was excited that finally this would happen. However, it has never panned out, with the conspiracy theorists, unions, negative nancies, or whoever is holding this tech from my grocery/retail shopping experience.

    17. Re:Place item in bagging area by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I'm from Canada and I remember it being this way when I was a kid. I'm not sure exactly when it changed. You would put the groceries on the conveyor. Somebody would scan them. Somebody else would bag them for you and put them on another cart so they could be taken out to your car for you. Some other grocery stores would bag your groceries, put them into plastic bins, then put them on rollers sending them down somewhere else in the store where you could drive your car around to pick them up. But the customer was never expected to bag their own groceries or push them out to the car by themselves.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    18. Re:Place item in bagging area by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      Not around here. When the kiosks first came out, no one used them (was a wonderful line skipping time for us introverts). Now people are waiting in line to use one of the 4-8 kiosks. Usually I have to stand in a cashier's line, because either the line is too long for the kiosk, or there are clueless users of kiosks using them.

    19. Re:Place item in bagging area by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      Haven't shopped at home depot for awhile, but most of the kiosks I have run across have a button on the screen that says something to the effect of skip bagging for this item.

    20. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      When I was a kid they had some RFID commercials that suggested at one point you would be able to just walk out with groceries and have you CC billed, where is that?

      A lot of us resented being double and triple billed.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    21. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is already in Minnesota, so look out.

    22. Re:Place item in bagging area by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      When or where was this?

      I would love to just walk into the store, grab my stuff and have them send me the bill. Seems so much easier. Also as a bald, bearded 30+ year old man can we stop bothering to check for ID yet? Anyone older than 21 who looks as old as I should get access to booze just on principle.

    23. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i laughed hard when i read "human checkouts are faster". that may be true sometimes, even most of the time, but there's nothing worse than getting a really SLOW human checker.

      at the grocery store i go to self-checkout 80% of the time. my main goal at the supermarket is to get out as fast as possible. there's often a couple self-checkouts open, so i'll take one if that's the case. at least at the store i frequent, the machines are very easy to use and i can whip through very fast. often, there's even a bagger working who helps put my stuff into bags. if not, i do it myself. i don't mind at all. remember: my goal is to get out FAST, and i can put stuff into bags quickly. i can also arrange it just how i like. sometimes baggers screw up and e.g. put cold items with warmer items.

      now, here's where the "but" comes in: i shop only for myself, so i don't usually have a huge cart full of items.. if i'm buying a lot of groceries (say, more than $70 worth), i'll ALWAYS go to a human checker. why? well, i'm lazy. if there's a lot of stuff to ring up, i'd rather pay someone else to do it.

    24. Re:Place item in bagging area by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      I would be surprised if someone working a supermarket checkout job could afford to feed a family on that pay. Paying rent is probably a major hurdle itself. Probably one reason employers like that prefer high school/college kids. Besides being more biddable to crazy schedules and no benefits, the job is generally not needed to pay actual living expenses, so they'll accept what is below a "living wage" in the area.

    25. Re:Place item in bagging area by cusco · · Score: 1

      Depends on where they work. A lot of Costco or Target cashiers are the family's primary (or only) breadwinner, WalMart, not so much. Grocery stores are a mix, with unionized Safeway cashiers making a not-horrible wage but non-union stores paying crap. The reason that they like younger folks has more to do with 1) fewer back problems from standing all day, 2) more flexible schedules, 3) they haven't developed carpel tunnel syndrome yet.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    26. Re:Place item in bagging area by sjames · · Score: 1

      It;s funny how, in spite of the chance to save enough money to cover the rest of their payroll by offshoring the CxOs, that option never seems to be on the table no matter how much the shareholders would benefit.

    27. Re:Place item in bagging area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

  4. Humans by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Just make sure the complaints department has plenty of them. I do not want to talk to a machine.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Humans by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I'm unimpressed by siri on an iPhone, but siri when I had to call apple was amazing.

      I spoke one sentence, and was immediately transferred to a person knowledgeable in the area I needed.

      this is far better than the person, questions, hold, person that I'm used to.

      specifically, I stated "upgrade to is 10.6" (it wasn't available in the stores anymore). Within 3 minutes I had already paid and was done.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    2. Re:Humans by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Depends on your voice. I have a rather low voice and often times the system just can't pick up my voice at all. It'll suggest talking louder, but that's bullshit. Talking louder only helps if you're talking unreasonably quietly, which is pretty much nobody.

      But, properly implemented, a menu system can be much more efficient as it gives the technicians the information they always have to ask before they come online to help. What people hate are poorly designed systems and ones which are confusing.

  5. There is a difference by MasseKid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is a difference between interacting with an average human and interaction with someone getting paid minimum wage. There's no value added by the later.


    On two recent trips I had drastically different experiences. Front desk clerk at a cheaper hotel took 25 minutes to check in the three people in our group. We asked about simple things like which of the three restaurants next to the hotel was better and he couldn't even tell us what restaurants were next to the hotel. The second was at a much nicer hotel. The person behind the counter was clearly paid more, smiled, and was very nice. It took them all of about 10 minutes to get all four rooms of the group checked in, including changing floors for one of them. They also made some great recommendations for food.

    What people want is value added. I'd never check in via a kiosk for the second hotel, but I'd be very glad to check in via a kiosk at the first. Not wanting interaction with idiots isn't the same as not wanting interaction with people.

    1. Re:There is a difference by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      This : telling a machine to fuck off (with a cancel button) because they are are dumbo-know-nothing is much easier than doing the same to a human dumbo-know-nothing.

      Alas, no-one encourages people to be good at their job anymore. Franchise places want consistency - the same experience in every location. Which means you have to reduce the skills to do the job to a three-ring binder that even a dumbo-know-nothing can read, meaning the only people who will stay in that job are the ones who found their level.

      When was the last time someone raved to you about how great a particular McDonald's or Subway joint was? Never.

      I used to eat meatball subs in a place that had people who cared. They cost £0.50 more than Subway, but you got a bowl of soup as well, and the sub was heaven - real cheese, meatballs that weren't scorched and dried up from sitting in the pan, bread made from dough instead of foam. They guy behind the counter knew me, knew what I liked, brought me my sandwich while I sat in the window and indulged in a little people watching. That kind of service you don't want to automate away. *

      KFC? I prefer to use the auto-till because it reduces the number of chances they have to fuck up your order.

      * alas, this lovely deli died because Subway opened 7 locations within half a mile of it

    2. Re:There is a difference by mk1004 · · Score: 1

      Then why did you choose the cheaper hotel for the one trip? Some people will complain that the more expensive hotel is wasting its money on expensive help. Why pay people a living wage when there's plenty of people looking for work? Then we complain when we get poor service. I don't know how many times a friend complained about the incompetent help at MacDonalds, but he clearly loves the $1 value menu for his 4 kids. You get what you pay for. Usually.

      I don't mind IVR when things go right, and if that saves money, fine. It's when things go wrong and you need to talk to a person that you'll find out if the company cares about customer service, or if they're just cheap.

      --
      I can mend the break of day, heal a broken heart, and provide temporary relief to nymphomaniacs.
    3. Re:There is a difference by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The person at the cheaper hotel can't afford to eat out. They can probably tell you which brand of ramen is best, though.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:There is a difference by Let's+All+Be+Chinese · · Score: 1

      That, and of course machines can only deal with well-defined convenient little category boxes to stuff you in. If you somehow don't fit, it's now your problem, as the machine certainly won't help you.

      The end result is invariably that it's not only your problem, it'll also be made your fault and you'll get blamed for not fitting in the system designer's convenient boxes.

      We're already used to it because ever larger bureaucracies do the same, only using "process" and (often still paper) forms. But that doesn't justify the tendency at all, especially not since technology could also enable us to do better.

      So I think this is abuse of technology (or process) against humans and ought to be a crime.

      As long as some human is reachable and can and will actually fix any and all problems, you're welcome to automate the fsck out of whatever you like. Just don't be surprised that some things, or situations, or, well, people, need to be taken care of by humans.

      So that must always be possible, even easy and convenient. Why? Because that sets the bar nicely high for the quality of automating: That has to be even easier and more convenient for the common case, otherwise common-case people won't use it. See there, a challenge.

    5. Re:There is a difference by MasseKid · · Score: 1

      While I agree with the content of your post, (you get what you pay for), the premise (that I chose to stay at each) is wrong. I didn't (directly) chose where I stayed in either of the above. When you travel for work, it's often someone else who is picking your hotel for you. When I travel for personal reasons, I generally stay somewhere between the two examples listed above. I can afford to spend more than the 50$ a night el cheapo, but can't afford the 400$ a night luxury rooms.

    6. Re:There is a difference by sjames · · Score: 2

      If only that was the deciding factor. I've been more expensive hotels where the people knew nothing about anything. They didn't even know who they could ask and clearly didn't care. The furniture was ornate but the AC in the rooms didn't work. The food was OK.

      I've stayed in inexpensive places where the staff was fast, knowledgeable and courteous. The furniture was simple but functional, the AC worked well. The food was really good.

      It seems that like many consumer goods, price is a poor indicator of quality. Given that, the consumer has little choice but to go for cheap (the one thing they can be sure of) and hope for the best. At least you don't feel (as badly) ripped off that way.

  6. Often the same thing by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I'm at a counter and the person behind the counter is just reading things off a screen to me, what's the point? If the person adds nothing to the transaction, what I really should be talking to them about is what they are going to do after their job is eliminated.

    1. Re:Often the same thing by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Because computers never have bugs and people always know what the things on the screen mean. Having a person there slows things a bit, but they're supposed to be there to fix things and answer questions as well.

      Also, this sort of attitude is why customer service in the US is so incredibly bad most of the time. In China, where I'm pretty sure the government mandates a minimum number of employees, customer service is good to the point of being creepy often times. You'll have an employee for ever 4 or so aisles there to answer questions or direct you to the correct aisle and even fastfood restaurants like McDonalds will have people there to clear up after you finish eating.

      This is what you get when there are insufficient jobs for the people which coincidentally is the situation you get when you eliminate all the jobs that aren't completely necessary.

    2. Re:Often the same thing by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I'll talk to a concierge or someone who can offer services not available from a computer, but if it's just a check-in drone at the front desk, why would I wait in line if I can hit the same buttons they can with none of the hassle?

      Besides which, this, at least to me, seems like an interface issue. We all know that progress indicators slow down computers by stealing cycles to update the screen, yet we'd still rather have them than not, simply because they significantly improve our interaction with computers. Similarly, when you have a drone going through an opaque script and you're unable to assess the state of progress, it can be a frustrating process. Going through the motions yourself at a kiosk allows you to have a sense of progression, even if that drone at the front desk might be capable of working through the on-screen system faster than you can.

    3. Re:Often the same thing by cusco · · Score: 1

      why would I wait in line

      If I've arrived in Chicago at 0-dark:30, gone to the job site, worked for 17 hours, and finally dragged myself to the hotel I just want to give someone my ID and credit card and let them do the work. I'll lean against the counter with my eyes closed and wait until they give me the room key, then stumble to the bed. If I'm traveling for pleasure it's one thing, but if I'm there for work don't ask me to be coherent by the time I get to the hotel.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    4. Re:Often the same thing by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I guess it depends on what task the computer is doing, but most of the time when I'm waiting for a computer it's because the disk or network is slowing it down, saving CPU cycles helps little, if at all in this case.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  7. Another interpretation by OzPeter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1/3 of the Hyatt's guests are tech savvy introverts who have figured out that they can lessen stress inducing interactions. The other 2/3s are either extroverts or introverts who haven't figured out how to use the kiosks.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:Another interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely 3/3s are people who don't feel like talking to a minimum wage drone with a highschool diploma who has a chip on their shoulder that they aren't getting paid 30 dollars an hour to say "I'm sorry that's our policy" or "I don't see your reservation in our system, how do you spell Smith again?"

    2. Re:Another interpretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hyatt... OH yeah the place that nickle and dimes you on every little thing. As if a bottle of water is really worth 8 bucks... Everything in that hotel is at a premium cost. Not surprising they want to cut costs and increase their margin. Meaning they want to eliminate the help. Wouldnt be surprised if they figure out 'hey we can charge 1 buck extra for either interaction'.

    3. Re:Another interpretation by mk1004 · · Score: 1

      Apparently 3/3s also don't like paying more for a better hotel that actually pays enough to attract intelligent people to run their front desk.

      --
      I can mend the break of day, heal a broken heart, and provide temporary relief to nymphomaniacs.
    4. Re:Another interpretation by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      More likely some fraction of guests greater than 1/3 come into Hyatt hotels when there's a line to check in, and some fraction of those (the product of the two fractions being 1/3), use the kiosk instead of waiting.

    5. Re:Another interpretation by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Apparently 3/3s also don't like paying more for a better hotel that actually pays enough to attract intelligent people to run their front desk.

      Why would an intelligent person want to waste their life away behind a hotel front desk?

  8. Threaten is not the right word. by X0563511 · · Score: 1

    If I want to talk to someone, I will.

    If I want to get something done, unless said "something" is to speak to someone, I want to get it done - whether or not interaction with others is required.

    Remember: you are not special.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  9. Nuance has it all wrong by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    Yes, I don't want to speak to a human. Humans are rude and unhelpful, and they don't need to give me askance looks when they see all the weird stuff that I'm buying at the drugstore.

    But I don't want to speak to a computer either, because I don't like repeating myself. Just let me push buttons.

    1. Re:Nuance has it all wrong by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Yes, I don't want to speak to a human. Humans are rude and unhelpful...

      You haven't spent enough time with the ELIZA program then...

  10. Machines by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    When I talk to one of the machines over the phone, they usually give me a list of options, none of which relate to my problem. I have no problem starting with a machine, but PLEASE, give me a way to get to a human when the machine doesn't cut it.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    1. Re:Machines by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      I'd have no problem moving on to a machine, if the machine was good at dealing with my problem.

      Say :

      Menu : three confusing options, fourth option for a human operator
      Human : You explain your problem and then... they direct you to
      Machine : The correct piece of software tailored for your issue

    2. Re:Machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is already a failure that you are talking to a machine on the phone in the first place. Voice-only is a horrible medium for navigating menus or imparting computerized information. All such interaction should happen using text or a gui and the first thing the computer voice should tell you is: "for a better experience, go to www.example.com." Then you can go there and if you do need to talk to a person, and it has to be on the phone, the website could give you a session id to type in to by-pass the voice menus.

    3. Re:Machines by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      But when you do get to take to a human, they are just sitting at a machine themselves with exactly the same options.

    4. Re:Machines by cusco · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but they've seen these options more than once, and know that the choice labeled 'Premium Customer Care' goes to Tech Support, while the one that is labeled 'Customer Service' doesn't.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    5. Re:Machines by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      I just had three weeks of British Telecom's "If your broadband isn't working, visit our website"!

      I did explain to staff at various levels that

      a) this was rubbing salt in the wound, and

      b) it showed a complete failure to understand what bradband is

      Ultimately one of their staff explained that if the problem with my broadband was technical, they could fix it in 24 hours, but since the problem was actually due to their (mis) management, there was no way to give an estimated time to fix!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    6. Re:Machines by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      I spent over a month last year explaining to Optus that my 4G phone couldn't connect to the internet due to a random and unrequested change they had made to my account configuration at their end. (persistent PDP authentication error one week after getting new handset/contract)

      No amount of SIM card replacements, handset changes or reprovisioning of the internet component of the account seemed to resolve it, though putting someone else's SIM card in my handset let it function perfectly.

      In the end I had to get the Ombudsman involved to terminate the contract, went to Telstra (I feel dirty just saying that) and managed to get a functioning service.

      It got to the point where everyone within a few desk's radius of mine at work was aware of the problem and I knew all the menu options to navigate the Optus support numbers because of their innate inability to return calls when they said they would and letting the issue drag on to the point of absurdity.

      That said, the staff at the local Optus shop spent hours trying to resolve the issue, following through the diagnostic hoops they were asked by head office, while being unfailing polite in the face of an increasingly aggravated customer.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
  11. Most kiosks are made for speed by alen · · Score: 1

    slide credit card and/or enter a few numbers to identify yourself
    answer a question or two about checked luggage
    grab your ticket/key

    most times you talk to a person their computer system is some ancient software where the person has to type in war and peace to get the same thing done

    1. Re:Most kiosks are made for speed by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      most times you talk to a person their computer system is some ancient software where the person has to type in war and peace to get the same thing done

      THIS What the fuck are they typing? Why does it take so many keystrokes? They are all pretty fast typers judging by the rate of "clicky clack click" soa re they just hitting random keys while staring at the screen doing nothing? I can't imagine what kind of UI forces a person to type that much.

    2. Re:Most kiosks are made for speed by Pope · · Score: 1

      THIS What the fuck are they typing? Why does it take so many keystrokes? They are all pretty fast typers judging by the rate of "clicky clack click" soa re they just hitting random keys while staring at the screen doing nothing? I can't imagine what kind of UI forces a person to type that much.

      A UI designed by the programmers, not a UI designer, unlike most self-serve kiosks.

      That said, the self-serve kiosks usually have 2 or 3 actual tasks do to, whereas the desk ones can do EVERYTHING. Of course it's easier to design a kiosk UI.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    3. Re:Most kiosks are made for speed by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      Don't knock old software too much - the oldest stuff is probably the fastest.

      The best airline systems are still based on terminals. Because even though they have a learning curve, they were really, really, well designed for maximum throughput. Many of them are probably either still running ancient mainframes or virtualizing them if they are smart.

      Systems with GUIs often concentrate on presentation to the detriment of usability. I've seen systems that don't even make any provision for keyboard usage patterns - where the tab order on the form was in an apparently random order, to the point where the people using it would despair because they'd have to mouse between each field instead of the age-old data entry staple - hitting tab. When we ported our terminal-era app to GUI, this was the number one design stipulation - that it would remain key stream compatible with the old version. Alas, this lead to some really painful code...

      What would be faster in McD's - the current hunt and peck through little icons of the food on a touch screen, or a real keyboard where the server enters the unique code for each food item? The latter - but alas, only after they'd been trained. Training = skill and skill = higher wages, so they don't want to do that.

    4. Re:Most kiosks are made for speed by alen · · Score: 1

      you assume the cashiers at micked D's know how to read

    5. Re:Most kiosks are made for speed by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      Don't they usually have keys with the picture of the food on it?

  12. Voice recognition currently is horrible by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many times recently have you tried to call say a cell phone or cable company only to go through the decision tree hierachy that does not give are you an option your need, but you don't find that out until you are 3 or 4 levels down on the tree and you have already invested 10 minutes and then r put in a wait queue for another 20 just to find out you are in the wrong place. That design may save on some human salaries but at the cost of many very pissed off clients.

    I think most people would like to talk with a person that can understand what you need and help. We certainly don't have a technology yet that allows a machine to take that place.

    There also seems to be the effect if not the intent to limit access to only certain problems or complaints which you can do by design with an automation but not a person. So limited access for complaints is the other problem.

    1. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is their point exactly, why spend money on you calling them up? They want clients that don't use their service, don't call them up, and just keep paying.

    2. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How many times recently have you tried to call say a cell phone or cable company only to go through the decision tree hierachy that does not give are you an option your need, but you don't find that out until you are 3 or 4 levels down on the tree and you have already invested 10 minutes and then r put in a wait queue for another 20 just to find out you are in the wrong place.

      Forget how many. What percentage of the time when I call a company and get a human do they send me to the right place, versus what percentage of the time can I get to the right place via the call tree? I have no statistics, but you're not even asking the right question. My personal experience of the matter is that either way I'm likely to have a bad time when I call any company, whether I speak to a human or not. More than half the time when I get a person they don't know what the fuck I'm talking about anyway, and I get transferred around to three or four different departments before I even reach someone who can help me with my actual problem... I say the same things to three or four different people, and eventually I get to talk to the right one. Sometimes I even have to hang up and call back and speak to a different person in the same call center before I can even move on to the next stage.

      I think most people would like to talk with a person that can understand what you need and help.

      That is so true. Unfortunately, you often end up talking to a person who can't understand simple (insert your language here) and who can't help. I would go so far as to say usually.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      In the age of the smartphone it could be so much easier - instead of having the menu on your phone system, have the menu on your website, in a format that's more useful, and have the phone directly call the relevant department at the end of it.

      Hmm. I'm sure there's an app in that.

    4. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by Jhon · · Score: 1

      If I don't have a "tree" level that's dealing with my problem/issue in 2 or 3 iterations (about 1 or 2 mins in to the call), I say "I'd like to speak to a representative". Some times I need to say it 2 or 3 times, but I end up with a human who resolves my problem fairly quickly.

      That said, the number of times I've needed to do that have dramatically decreased. I think their decision trees are getting better.

    5. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't even need a smartphone for that. Amazon is the only company I've seen that actually does that, though. I think there was even an option to have them call you instead of you waiting on hold. It's ridiculous: if there's no human to talk to, there's no point in using the phone at all; pretty much every phone menu system could be replaced by a website that would be far more user-friendly.

    6. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are actually humans working in India, you insensitive clod!

    7. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you on how horrible they are. Even Apple's CS system is a complete joke. You have to yell at it since it ignores normal speech levels and even then it seems to intentionally take you to a different option. For work, I've had to call about PowerBook warranty issues about two dozen times so far this year, and not once did the VRU think I said PowerBook.

      Of course Apple is a very good company so they usually get the correct department on the second try. I just miss their old DTMF system that worked on the first try.

    8. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 1

      Good thinking

    9. Re:Voice recognition currently is horrible by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 1

      That seems to be a sub-dialect problem. If you don't get routed or understood, your probably speaking the wrong dialect. You see that discussing program framework issues between a Java shop and a Windows shop ... Many years of teaching taught me that you may need to explain things several different ways before you find a common language to import your communication to their local brain.

  13. Meh If thats what you call interaction by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Coffee with milk and no sugar"
    "That will be three dollars"
    "thanks"

    OMG! The meaningful interactions I will miss! What am I going to miss out on? Meaningless protocol driven exchanges? The occasional moments where protocol breaks and customer and server have a brief moment of human interaction? Frankly, if it bothers you to lose these minute interactions, then you have bigger issues.

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    1. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly, if it bothers you to lose these minute interactions, then you have bigger issues.

      And some of us contend that when people overanalyze these interactions to clinically squeeze every last drop of efficiency out of them so that they have the spare time to make snarky comments to others who appreciate live interactions with human beings, then those people have bigger issues.

    2. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No wonder this is news for nerds.
      Imagine this short conversation you described above, just with nice girl with nice smile.
      Can you really tell you would rather communicate with machine?

    3. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      Yes, if you ignore all the other interactions that have value that are intermixed with useless ones, then it all seems useless.

      Have you never gotten a date as the result of some meaningless conversation? Have you never learned something new as the result of a meaningless conversation with a clerk, or overheard from someone else's meaningless conversation?

      My guess is that the one with a problem here is you, and you don't even realize how much of the world around you that you're missing just because you have your head so far up your own ass.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because you lack the social skills to even have a meaningful interaction (ie - you're a fucking nerd). It is quite easy to strike up a conversation with a waitress (especially a cute one). Unless, of course, you think they are beneath you.

    5. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's the extent of your interaction, then by all means use a kiosk. Personally I love meeting new people and if a person behind the counter looks interesting then I'll gladly start up a conversation with them. I'd say upwards of 3/4 of my relationships (either friends or more) have stemmed from meeting people at their work and starting a conversation with them.

    6. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Chelloveck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Coffee with milk and no sugar"
      "That will be three dollars"
      "thanks"

      "Coffee with milk and no sugar"
      "You said you wanted 'coffee'. If that is correct, say yes."
      "Yes."
      "Would you like milk with that?"
      "I just said, 'milk and no sugar'!"
      "I'm sorry, I didn't understand your response. Please answer 'yes' or 'no'."
      "Yes."
      "Would you like sugar with that?"
      "What? No, dammit!"
      "I'm sorry, I didn't understand your response. Please answer 'yes' or 'no'."
      "No!"
      "What size would you like?"
      "Large."
      "I'm sorry, I didn't understand your response. Please answer 'grande', 'venti', or 'tall'.
      "Um, which is the big one?"
      "I'm sorry, I didn't understand your response. Please answer 'grande', 'venti', or 'tall'.
      "Whichever is biggest."
      "I'm sorry, I didn't understand your response. Please answer 'grande', 'venti', or 'tall'.
      "Tall! Give me a tall!"
      "I'm sorry, we're sold out of the beverage you ordered, or one or more of the add-ins. Please make another selection and start again."

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    7. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I get the coffee either way then who cares.

    8. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I very nearly had that exact exchange with a real live human (if that's what she was) at a McDonald's.

    9. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by dpidcoe · · Score: 1

      Where voice systems fall down is when they try to mimic a human and allow people to talk naturally. The designers should play to the strengths of the system, e.g. it's a way to input things into a computer without having to touch a greasy screen

      In theory a well designed voice system designed to respond to a very limited series of short, well chosen commands would be highly accurate and not annoy the user.

      If the command tree was structured well, you could order with something like "Coffee. Milk. Confirm." with minimal error rate (lack of sugar is implied because it wasn't explicitly specified). It could even flash the available tree of choices and commands on a non-touch screen embedded in the table or something.

    10. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Jhon · · Score: 1

      And your decedents will be the androgynous Spacers described by Isaac Asimov. Your only friend will be Jemby the robot!

    11. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful, there. I think the GP probably read all that and got a warm, fuzzy close-replacement-to-feeling in his heart from the down-home coldness and familiar inhuman interaction you presented there. Watch, next he'll berate you for your clearly inefficient interaction with it, especially in how it's your fault you didn't know what you wanted ahead of time and didn't know how to treat the machine with the respect it deserves as one of nature's own precious creatures.

    12. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Even with that simple interaction, if one starts out by trying to appear moderately awake and at least possibly pleasant, with a neutral or better tone of voice, and adds a genuine smile with the thanks, one often gets a genuine smile in return - and that can change a rote mechanical 'interaction' into a mutual acknowledgement of humanity, which adds a bit of cheer to one's day.

    13. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Like the nice girl with the nice smile really wants you to be hitting on her while she is slaving away at her minimum wage job.

    14. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by cusco · · Score: 1

      That's too bad. At the coffee shop down the hill they know my name, I know most of theirs, they know my dogs each get a cup of whipped cream. We smile at each other, chitchat for a moment while they're making my mocha if there's no line, and try to make each other's day just a little more pleasant if possible. It's a nice way to start the day, hopefully for both of us.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    15. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

      Or, you could try being more civil and friendly with people.

      That's not to say waste their time, but as opposed to grunting out "coffee with sugar" you could try something along the lines of "hi, how are you?  could i get a coffee with sugar, please".

      a) you'll be amazed at the level of service you receive.  I frequently get nice "extras" added to my order because the worker is so amazed to be treated like a human being.

      b) you'll also reduce the chances of nasty "extras" such as spit or urine. 

    16. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      The dead ones are less argumentative!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    17. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      True, but they tend to love the taste of human flesh.

    18. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I won't be satisfied until I can get a proper response to "Tea, earl grey, hot."

    19. Re:Meh If thats what you call interaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or alternatively an option coffe with checkboxes for milk and sugar, possibly with quantities and a drop-down with small (200ml), medium (350ml), big (500ml) options?

  14. Peasants! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, this seems mildly interesting to me. The peasants actually prefer to have less service? The peasants actually prefer to constantly learn new systems that force them, like cattle in a race, to follow a predetermined path to increasing the corporation's profits? Silly peasants, don't you realize that you are working for the corporations, for free?

    I'm not fooled by false hopes of time savings or fantasies of cost savings by doing the minimum wage labor myself. Thanks all the same. I prefer full service, where someone else has to master the system and do my bidding before receiving my payment.

    If your hotel check-in is faster at a DIY kiosk than by a professional front desk manager, you're at the wrong hotel. When I stay at Hyatt properties, the front desk handles my check-in, payment transaction and baggage handling. Should they choose to discontinue that in favor of a DIY kiosk, I will take my business elsewhere.

    Now, before you type up a heated retort, I am well aware that Hyatt will not miss my individual patronage and will happily trade it for the DIY profits form the unwashed masses. But, I remain unwilling to compromise, and there are lots of alternatives to Hyatt. And in the places where those alternatives don;t presently exist, new businesses will spring up to serve my needs, even if it is at a premium.

    I have no problem paying for decent/exceptional service. I'm uninterested in paying or the "privilege" of doing the work myself. I I want that, I'll go to a motel, but even they staff the front desk.

    Enjoy your "savings", peasants!

    1. Re:Peasants! by mk1004 · · Score: 1

      I caught an episode of Undercover Boss awhile back, where the CEO of Great Wolf Lodge was the principle character. She started at the front desk, and was appalled that it took 20-25 minutes to check in each family. Apparently, over time the tasks required to check in customers had increased so that it was impossible, even for competent help, to check in people quickly. I suspect it's much quicker now. Don't underestimate stupidity at the top level as the cause of poor customer service.

      --
      I can mend the break of day, heal a broken heart, and provide temporary relief to nymphomaniacs.
    2. Re:Peasants! by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Ever turned up at a hotel and you've been traveling all night and it's after midnight and the front door is locked and the employee is in the bathroom? Not the best start to a stay. (Same chain as yours. I don't hold it against them but humans are humans).

    3. Re:Peasants! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woah woah woah, wait right there. Sorry, I lost track of what you were saying sometime near the second paragraph. It's like you completely went off-topic right around there. I think you need to say the word "peasants" eighty more times before I finally understand the subtle point you're trying to make.

    4. Re:Peasants! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't Undercover Boss but something like Hotel Rescue or something on A&E or Discovery or one of those types of channels. Still, it was an interesting show. They ended up recommending that the owner stay home most of the time and let the people do their job.

  15. My name is... by Virtucon · · Score: 2

    "Not Sure" - Idiocracy.

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    1. Re:My name is... by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      Context for those who haven't seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM1P7GMnd38

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  16. Flawed premise much? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    While the overly-aggressive push to IVRs in areas where they are clearly too immature to be viable is a rather annoying penny-pinching move, it hardly seems like most of the situations being described are really the sort of 'human interaction' that we want to hold on to.

    Interacting with the poor bastard getting paid not-enough to push whatever paper is connected to my situation isn't all that pleasant. I hate to think how it is for the CSR, whose reward for finishing with me is yet another customer...

    It is certainly possible for technology to be isolating(or, perhaps more accurately, quietly ease somebody into isolating themselves); but if your quota of 'human interaction' is currently with people slated for replacement with voice recognition and expert systems, I have some bad news about how isolated you already are.

  17. The REAL question is : by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do humans threaten computer interaction ?

  18. Not at the grocery store by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe a kiosk at a hotel is fine, but self-checkout at the grocery store is usually a pain in the neck. More often than not there is some sort of problem, even when scanning normal items, so you end up needing the help of a person to clear the error anyway. Of course the person who does this also attends to a register, so they have to wait until the people in their lane have been helped first before they can help you, so it ends up taking longer than if I just went straight to the human cashier.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:Not at the grocery store by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you're not just doing it wrong? If I don't have much in my cart I tend to prefer those self-checkout terminals because they're so hassle free. That said, I never use the ones at Warmart or Food Lion because they're badly designed and horrible. Even the old annoyances of "This item is 1/4 gram different than its database weight, you thieving con artist!" have largely disappeared over the years.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:Not at the grocery store by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      I usually have no problems with the grocery store kiosk, except waiting for the moron in front of me to figure out how to use it. However, I am not one of those people that memorize the prices for everything in their cart. So, I could be getting screwed, but wouldn't know it. Also, if I am buying something that needs to be weighed, such as produce, I use a cashier and not the kiosk.

      The convenience factor is huge with me. Too bad everyone starting using them, when they first came out I was one of the only ones to use it. Used to be able to skip the lines at checkout.

    3. Re:Not at the grocery store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our local market has a bunch of '12 item or less' self checkouts that I always use - no problems. But they also have several unlimited item checkouts that I usually avoid. Generally, the paid checkout folk are just better enough at the quirks of getting the barcode to read right that it doesn't make sense for me. Sometimes there's actually several people waiting with grocery carts of food to get through these. I always wonder if those folk are anti-social sense it's obvious (to me) that they can't save time and have no control over the 'idiot' in front of them.

    4. Re:Not at the grocery store by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      I always use the cashier for a couple of reasons. A: they are faster. Because my wife is a stay at home mom, I rarely have to go to the grocery store. That means the cashier's muscle memory is an order of magnitude faster than my fumbling, especially when produce is involved. When I do go to the grocery store it is generally for produce. B: Grocery store kiosks talk. I hate talking computers. I hate talking to computers. And the day when computers come equipped with RPP (Real People Personalities) will be the day I finally go off the deep end.

    5. Re:Not at the grocery store by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Your grocery store just needs to get decent ones. Ours are great. There's rarely a problem, and there's a dedicated employee for every four self-checkouts for when there is. If there's a bored cashier with nobody in line I'll usually go through that way, but otherwise the self checkout is faster.

    6. Re:Not at the grocery store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oh, I think I know what XxtralarGe is talking about. Or at least, in my personal experience, I know what 9 times out of 10 will make the system fail, and need a person to come and fix. Anything light.

      Those retarded systems (for most automated checkouts I've encountered) are set up such that all of your products are put in an area after being scanned that has a scale under it. A scale that is in an absolute constant state of being beaten to hell and back by people dropping heavy shit on it. Every single item has a weight assigned to it, and the scale looks for that amount of weight to be added to it once it's scanned.

      Well what the fuck does say... an eyeliner pencil, or single fuse for your car, a sheet of sandpaper, or some other ridiculously light object weigh? What's that? Next to nothing? That's right? What can that horribly abused scale detect? I can tell you want it CAN'T... anything that weighs next to nothing! So I scan the eyeliner, toss it into the bag on the scale, and... nothing. What's that? I can't scan the next item? It says"'please place item in the bagging area". Well guess what, you fucking piece of shit, it's already there! If I try to pick it up and re-drop it, either nothing happens, or it immediately gets pissed off and says "please wait for a manager". Oh, hey, thanks for nothing.

      What's that? Try dropping something ridiculously light in as well, such as your shopping list paper or a dime, into the bag in hopes that it'll think that the item is now in there? NOPE! Suddenly, it says there's TOO MUCH WEIGHT! And the system usually locks up and says to wait for a manager if I try to pick up the items and drop them in various combinations of attempting to duplicate the weight it's actually looking for... not that I want to spend 10 minutes fucking around with a system that refuses to believe that an item actually exists.

      Until they get a system that's either a) significantly more accurate with weight, AND can withstand hundreds upon thousands of times having heavy shit dropped and picked up off of it repeatedly and endlessly, or b) just fucking TRUST me to scan the shit and not bother weighing everything (or disregarding the weight of things that are 10 grams or less, and just re-zeroing the scale when the item after the light object is scanned, or any change is detected between), then these self-scan stations will always be hell to work with.

      Or at LEAST have a button I can hit that says something like "next item", and will re-zero the scale to continue. And let me do that a few times before immediately going to "Durrr... manager needed, proceed to wait for 10 minutes". At least in one place over here, it has a "skip bagging this item" option, but that tends to have problems if you actually DO want that ridiculously light item in the bag, since then it just assumes it's not there, but that 1 gram or whatever is still there, and the next item or so will now be just enough for the system to think something's wrong... and tell you to wait for a manager.

      And y'know what? I don't WANT to take everything I perceive to be "light enough to make this checkout bitch at me", scan it, tell it I'm skipping bagging it, and dump them all in my pocket instead. That's just a horrendous nuisance. There's a bag there, I want to put my shit in the bag, is that too much to ask?

    7. Re:Not at the grocery store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just give the bagging area a good shove after scanning each item. This works every time at the old Wal-Mart self checkouts that have been largely decommissioned and replaced by normal checkouts that are never used because that would require paying for a cashier at each instead of having one person oversee four or more self checkouts. When all else fails, use excessive force. On the scale that is.

    8. Re:Not at the grocery store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The good ones have mute buttons. This feature should be mandatory. "Two. Dollars. Ninety. Five. Cents. Savings! Fifty. Five. Cents." I can do without this kind of "interaction."

    9. Re:Not at the grocery store by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you're not just doing it wrong?

      Yes, it's not rocket science. I'm just scanning bar codes, not getting produce or anything odd. I'll scan N items, and then the Nth+1 item sets off the error.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    10. Re:Not at the grocery store by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      Usually the kiosk has a "do not bag item" button. Press that next time it doesn't register that light item.

    11. Re:Not at the grocery store by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      I'll speak for my fellow anti-socials. I do not expect the moron in front of me has never used a computer before, using coupons, paying in pennies, or buying some item that needs the employee to check the driver license of the computer-illiterate moron.

    12. Re:Not at the grocery store by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Usually the kiosk has a "do not bag item" button. Press that next time it doesn't register that light item.

      Our kiosks don't require you to bag an item, it's just like a normal checkout aisle that has a belt to carry the items down to the bagging area. The problem occurs at scan time.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    13. Re:Not at the grocery store by fafalone · · Score: 1

      What really infuriates me about self-checkout, in addition to those things, is that for some reason the scanners aren't nearly as good as the regular checkout. At a register they just swipe the item through, whereas at self checkout I often find myself rotating it around a bunch of times, or having to make the bar code perfectly flat; sometimes it takes 20+ second just to scan an item.
      There is absolutely no good reason for this. It's why almost nobody uses self-checkout if they have more than 10 items.

  19. Hotels have kiosks? by jjsimp · · Score: 1

    Is it just Hyatt's and other similarly priced hotels that have the kiosks? I'm an introverted traveler that has never seen a check-in kiosk. Does the kiosk spit out the room key?

  20. Personal opinion by godrik · · Score: 1

    I always like talking to an actual human better. I spend enough time dealing with (or building) automatic systems. And I know how much they suck. The machine at the airport NEVER recognize my passport. Voice system NEVER recognize my foreign accent. Systems ALWAYS assume you know why you are there or the proper term for what you are trying to do or the procedure.

  21. "Jack In The Box" too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, there's no question running "Jack In The Box" cash registers employs more people than building Red Box video stores, but the fast food joints that have robot cashiers can reduce their prices. Partially to make up for the fact that there aren't any pimply faced teenagers who can afford to buy a Ford Motors vehicle. So the former cash register jockeys have to go to college and eat $.45 tacos because the extra $.045 cents are needed to pay the captive market prices of textbook publishers. These pimple faced brats have no money for entertainment after paying $.90/2 tacos and $450 for a text book, so instead of watching Django Unchained in theaters with the rest of us plantation owners, they have to download it from the Internets creating demand for Fiber Optic infrastructure. They eventually graduate college, invent a robotic pharmacist, and buy a "Jack In The Box" franchise.

    Total impact:
    -My tacos are 10% cheaper
    -congress finally investigates college text book prices
    -I don't have to deal with pimple faced teenagers to order tacos
    -The MPAA loses money
    -Google Fiber
    -Cheaper prescription pills just in time for the baby boomer retirement

    Most importantly, a new "Jack in The Box" location puts up a help wanted add for someone to cook more tacos to feed all the people who just saved money on their cholesterol medication. This person's job will be way better because he doesn't have to interact with me acting like a bitchy customer to make a living, but he will continue to mope around like Dante Hicks in Clerks until his coworker gets fired, goes to school, and invents the "Auto-taco 9000". At that point, he'll either try to get a student loan, or if he's mentally disabled he might loiter around outside his local city hall with a bunch of other people in sleeping bags eating cheap tacos and watching Iron Man 3 on their cell phones.

    That assumes the Federal Reserve prints enough money and congress stops acting fucktarded. If they squeeze the money supply hard enough, the "Auto-taco 9000" may never get the small business grant it so desperately deserves. Randal Graves will have to turn to Kickstarter & Crowdfunding to get his chance to feed customers wayward rodents.

    The Federal Reserve & Congress must act to ensure that America stays competitive with third world countries in the "feeding rodent meat to tourists" department! If they don't, we may all soon be buying "100% Rodent-Free" tacos from illegal immigrants out of the back of a van.

    1. Re:"Jack In The Box" too. by kermidge · · Score: 1

      +5 funny
      Laughed so hard it made my eyes water.

    2. Re:"Jack In The Box" too. by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      Congress is not acting fucktarded. They are acting like the greedy, self-serving bastards they have always been. They are just so blatantly obvious of their greed now than in the past, that they seem so fucktarded.

  22. False - All Kiosks Are Made To Cut Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Push more sheep through, lower/eliminate labor cost.

    Your interests are of precisely zero importance in the decision to implement kiosks. But, it's adorable that they've got you believing that kiosks are for your benefit.

    Your naivete is like a new born kitten. Adorable!

  23. Speak for yourself: by Hartree · · Score: 2

    Rant mode on: I work on laboratory equipment for a university. I spend a lot of my time and frustration on the phone with the companies who make scientific gear. Breaking out of canned menus and hold only works sometimes and often just results in voicemail sans returned calls or email.

    Yes, for the 14th time this call, I did know that you have a web site.

    If the answer I needed was on the web site, I would have gotten it there.

    If I wanted to order a new machine, I would've dialed sales directly. You make that easy.

    If my user wanted to drop N thousand dollars to have your tech come out three times again to fix a simple problem, they wouldn't have come to me out of frustration

    I want tech support so I can ask a technical question that YOU (the company) removed the manual that had the answer from your web site.

    And when we drop half a million on a machine, I expect better than some lame voice menu system with only a very few highly overworked tech support types on the other end.

    (There. I feel better. But only till I get in another phone runaround with the instrument makers. Don't let me get started about them dropping support and parts for instruments after as short a time as possible.)

    1. Re:Speak for yourself: by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Automation hella-sucks when you have a problem and have already done your DD in attempting to solve it.

      Maybe an improved system would be to have human tech support that issues harsh rebukes to customers who called support before they RTFM or look at the web page?

    2. Re:Speak for yourself: by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      That would work as long as they hide their customer service questionaire behind a code provided by the human tech support.

  24. Not for me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I so prefer working with people behind the counter (as probably does everyone who has some modicum of social skills). Automation is rules based. But if you're pleasant to the people behind the counter, in general they will go out of their way to make sure you have a good experience, even if they have to bend the rules a bit.

  25. I hope so! by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

    I can't stand talking to humans, for basic day-to-day stuff. I don't have any great desire to answer how I'm doing or hear how other people are doing, or comment on how the weather is or what some rich guys did playing with a ball. I just want to get on with my day and not be distracted from the voices inside my head.

    --
    I drank what? -- Socrates
    1. Re:I hope so! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to distract you from the voices, but I love you for this comment.

    2. Re:I hope so! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sweet god, you and me both! I swear, every single person I have to deal with seems to have programmed into their heads to "make small talk" before actually getting to the point of the call.

      *my phone rings*
      Me: "[insert company I work for here], James speaking."
      Them: "Hi, this is [whoever] with [whatever company], how are you doing today?"
      "Fine, fine, how can I help you?"
      "Oh, that's great, I'm fine too. What's the weather like out there?" (why do people ALWAYS say how they're doing as well? I DIDN'T ASK!)
      *keep prattling on about subjects neither of us could even slightly care less about... I don't know, maybe in an attempt to form a rapport with me? Which even if you did... extraordinarily unlikely... is completely meaningless since once you actually get to the point of why you called, will end with us both hanging up the phone 20 seconds after that.*

      No. No, no, no! You don't give even the slightest of two shits how I'm doing, or what the weather's like. Just like I don't give the slightest of two shits about how you're doing, or what the weather is like over there. And we're both going to say we're doing 'fine' regardless of how we actually feel. If I said "I have a blinding headache" or "I'm dying of cancer in a few years", what the hell would you respond with? No, to move things along, we both have to just say "fine", otherwise it just opens up a whole new string of meaningless conversation. You're wasting my fucking time, that until a minute ago was spent feverishly at work. You're at work, I'm at work, we both have work to do, so let's get down to brass tacks. Why are you calling, and I will see if I can do something about it. That's how it works. THIS is what an awesome call is like that actually cheers me up:

      *my phone rings*
      Me: "[insert company I work for here], James speaking."
      Them: "Hello, I'd like to check on X entry"
      "Ok, one moment... alright, what's the entry number."
      "3475981234757"
      "Alright, that's accepted, and you're good to go"
      "Thank you, bye"
      "No problem, bye"

      THAT! That is what the call should be like. Maybe throw in a "have a nice day" at the end, that's perfectly fine. If I wanted to chat forever, I'd go to a club or coffee house or some other arbitrary place to meet others. I am at work now. I want to do my work, so that I can complete said work. You want to check if some work is done, so that you can go about the next step of what is required in your work. Right to the point. We're both pleasant on the phone, the procedure is completed efficiently, and everyone is happy because they can get on with their work. And the less time I'm broken out of "the zone" that I was in when doing computer work, the faster I can get back into the zone.

      Spending 5 minutes chatting with me, covering a variety of completely meaningless and emotionless topics such as the weather, an arbitarary sporting event, how my day is going, etc. is just going to force me to spend 10 times as long attempting to re-sort my thoughts after getting off the call, and hopefully attempting to get back into the zone before I get another call.

  26. Isaac Asimov wrote about this idea in the 50's. by MRe_nl · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun

    "The book focuses on the unusual traditions and culture of Solarian society. The planet has a rigidly controlled population of twenty thousand, and robots outnumber humans ten thousand to one. People are strictly taught from birth to despise personal contact. They live on huge estates, either alone or with their spouse only. Communication is done via holographic telepresence (called viewing, as opposed to in-person seeing)".

    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  27. A Kiosk won't upgrade me by SirCodeAlot · · Score: 0

    I will continue to prefer a human with whom I can attempt an upgrade for a gratuity. A machine gives you no leeway.

    1. Re:A Kiosk won't upgrade me by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      I must be doing it wrong. You are supposed to tip the hotel check-in person, too?

      Will these people get a nametag that instead of their name, says "You are supposed to tip me". How am I supposed to know who to tip and who not to tip? Are we supposed to tip everyone nowadays? We already tip the baggage handler, the valet, the hotel cleaning staff, and the elevator guy. How many more people do I have to support, because employers are too cheap to pay their staff?

      Bring out the Manager, perhaps they need a tip, as well. Sorry for the rant about tipping, not because I am cheap, but because it is becoming a PITA to figure out who to tip, who not to tip, and how much to tip. Also, frustrating to carry around that many single bills in my pocket. I just really wished they started including all these tips into the room cost and stop nickle and diming me.

  28. Oblig book reference by ehud42 · · Score: 1
    --
    I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
  29. Demolition Man predicted this by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

    What was possible the most prophetic movie of the 20th century nailed this one.

    Erwin: "Greetings and salutations. Welcome to the emergency line of the San Angeles Police Department. If you prefer an automated response, press one, now."

  30. Routine vs. exception by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    For routine stuff, the automated systems are usually faster and smoother. When I know what to expect, have everything ready and don't have anything exceptional to deal with, I much prefer to punch a few buttons on a machine and be done with it. When I want a human being involved is when the exceptions pop up: there's a problem, or I don't know exactly what to expect or what I need, or I have something that's not part of the normal flow that needs dealt with. That's when I want to take it to a human being who can exercise some judgement or explain to me what's going on. And ideally having the automated systems handling the routine stuff should improve things by freeing up the human reps to concentrate only on those exception cases.

    The above, though, is probably why people prefer the machines: all too often the human reps can't apply any discretion or can't explain what's needed. Policies don't allow them any leeway, and hiring and training policies select against actually understanding what's happening. Given the choice between the machine and a human drone who can't do anything except follow the book, most people will go with the machine that'll get it over with quicker.

  31. Sales pitches by RKThoadan · · Score: 1

    Any company that gets you to a human fast is likely only doing that so they can give you a sales pitch. I'd rather have a screen I can just click on "no". It wastes less of my time that way.

  32. Inevitable. by Anarchy24 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't want to wait in a line if I have a simple transaction - like checking into a hotel or printing tickets. Faster line to the kiosk, faster service by the kiosk, (usually) no confusion on the part of the computer. I like to have the opportunity to do things for myself, before having to rely on another person - often, this is not possible. Complex problems require human intervention. Computer errors too. And customer service by a computer exacerbates problems, because it is perceived as insincere and says, "we don't care about you and we aren't going to waste our time on you". Human workers will always be necessary - but in declining numbers, as machines become increasingly efficient and capable of performing complex tasks that could only have been done by a human before.

    And for as fun/cool/effective as technology is, Slashdot readers are innovating their own demise.

  33. People don't want to avoid people, just assholes by BitZtream · · Score: 2

    If people in general didn't want to talk to other human beings, most of our planets population wouldn't be crammed into tiny areas ridiculously over crowded of land, better known as villages, towns and cities.

    What people don't want is to deal with the lip of the teenage prick behind the counter who thinks his shit doesn't stink and that you're an asshole because you didn't realize that your 6 pack of soda counts as 6 different items so you now have 21 items in the 20 items or less line.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  34. Euro-centrism by Shotgun · · Score: 2

    Wouldn't this be more of a Western culture issue? Many parts of the world value the human interaction much more that Western, industrialized cultures, especially the American culture, which is off the end of the chart with its task oriented nature. This is NOT America bashing. Our culture is what you want when you want to get task done in the shortest time possible. We are good at business and getting projects done. Other cultures are not nearly as concerned with "git 'er done", if it sacrifices human interaction.

    Would other cultures prefer the kiosks?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    1. Re:Euro-centrism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live un Argentina. I prefer a human, specially in hotels, they are helpful and usually give advice about the city you are visiting.

  35. An annoyance by Jiro · · Score: 2

    I'm sick and tired of automatic systems that say "please be sure to listen to all of the following options as our menu has been changed". As a rule, they never give you a date when the menu has been changed, so this statement seems to typically be a lie used as an excuse to convince people to listen to the options every time.

    1. Re:An annoyance by Asgard · · Score: 1

      Indeed. A frequent caller would normally find out that the options have changed on their first call after the change by way of being misrouted. An infrequent caller will have to listen to the prompts anyway. Telling both classes that the options have changed on every call takes up everyones time and rarely actually helps anyone.

    2. Re:An annoyance by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      I'm sick and tired of automatic systems that say "please be sure to listen to all of the following options as our menu has been changed". As a rule, they never give you a date when the menu has been changed, so this statement seems to typically be a lie used as an excuse to convince people to listen to the options every time.

      The reason they want you to listen to all the options isn't because they change often. It's because too many people will push the first option they hear that vaguely sounds like it relates to what they need help with, when there was a later option that they needed to choose but didn't because they never hear it.

      And this is ignoring all the people who just keep hitting "1" on their phones trying to get out of the IVR and reach someone as quickly as possible, only to find they are in the entirely wrong department when someone does answer and then getting angry at the representative.

    3. Re:An annoyance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sick and tired of automatic systems that say "please be sure to listen to all of the following options as our menu has been changed". As a rule, they never give you a date when the menu has been changed, so this statement seems to typically be a lie used as an excuse to convince people to listen to the options every time.

      What if it said, "Yo! Listen up motherfucker 'cause I won't be repeating this shit again!"?

  36. Better a robot than a human robot? by jurgen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with human interaction in much of the service industry today is that most of the corporate employees we have to interact with are so dis-empowered, they really are just robots... they act according to very limited scripts with neither real knowledge about the systems of which they are part nor any real decision making power. So they are just robots with the additional defect that they execute their programs imperfectly because they human and even have hurt feelings when you swear at them because of their incapacity to actually help you. This is frustrating for the customer and dehumanizing for the employee. So better real robots than fake (human) robots, right? Just so long as they understand "let me talk to a human"...

    (And then there's the small problem of all the low-end jobs we're eliminating, etc, etc, but hey, progress is progress.)

  37. faster? automated checkouts have speed limiters by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    faster? automated checkouts have speed limiters in the software that you don't have with the stations with store cashiers.

    1. Re:faster? automated checkouts have speed limiters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't mean the human cashiers are inclined to go any faster. If I have my cart loaded with a hundred items, sure I'll go to the human - if for no other reason than that their bagging area can accommodate that much. But my usual trip is around 10-30 items, and the automated line is just quicker than standing behind all the other customers with overflowing carts waiting for the human cashier. On average. Like I said, there's always the occasional customer who's completely clueless on the automated system and blows this out of the water.

    2. Re:faster? automated checkouts have speed limiters by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      ...there's always the occasional customer who's completely clueless on the automated system and blows this out of the water.

      Occasional? The majority of people, I am behind at the kiosk, act like they have never used a computer before in their life.

    3. Re:faster? automated checkouts have speed limiters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luckily, at least in my locale, it's usually easy to find an automated kiosk with no line.

  38. sorry but by JustNiz · · Score: 2

    my personal experience is that voice recognition systems are slow. buggy and practically never give me the options I actually want. As a Brit living in the USA I cant tell you how annoying it is that I have to put on a very exaggerated nasally American accent to make those things even understand me.

    Besides, I nearly always end up eventually talking to a real person anyway so IMHO they are just a total waste of cellphone and life minutes.

    1. Re:sorry but by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      You're not alone, it doesn't really work for some americans, either. Especially the americans with a strong southern accent. I get a kick out of listening to how many times some of the people I know, with strong southern accents, repeat themselves over the phone to a automated voice system.
      I usually have an easier time understanding a Brit, unless he's using cockney, than some people in my own country.

  39. Supermarket self check-out as a model by slickrockpete · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The supermarket self checkout systems are a model of how automated kiosks can work and make things a little more humane.
    Typically they have one person monitoring and helping people for 6 machines. If it's done well that person engages each person pro-actively to make sure they are getting what they want and the process goes smoothly and is watching to make sure nobody is gaming the system. That last thing is the real reason the person is there and so helpful, but because of that the process is much smoother and *more* personable. Contrast that with the typical human supermarket checkout. The cashier is scanning the items as quickly as possible looking down at the groceries and the screens. The customer is staring at the card swiper and entering a pin or loyalty card number. The only time they make eye contact is when there's cash back or handing over the receipt.

    1. Re:Supermarket self check-out as a model by cusco · · Score: 1

      So that's five people on the dole instead of six employed cashiers. I don't see the advantage.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    2. Re:Supermarket self check-out as a model by admdrew · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I was actually in high school working at a grocery store when they introduced some automatic lanes (at first just 4, then 8, and now probably more) which were overseen by one regular (albeit experienced) cashier. The auto-lane "shift" for cashiers was actually pretty sweet, since you rarely had to scan anything (my wrists still cry out during really cold nights, remembering the terrible repetitive pain), and you really only had to deal with price checks (no different from a real lane), occasional issues with people not understanding the machine, and "approving" alcohol purchases from the master register.

      That said, I was also a pretty personable cashier - I tried pretty hard to stay positive and greet everyone in my line, and simply let the customer drive the conversation. If they wanted me to shut the fuck up and scan, you could figure it out pretty easily without going beyond the initial greeting and post-checkout/payment conversation. And if they wanted to chat my ear off during checkout, I just let them, and would politely cut them off to ask them for coupons or announce the total of the order.

  40. Problem Solved by PPH · · Score: 1

    It appears that an automated replacement for the barrista has already been developed.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Problem Solved by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      This will work except when the customer orders a small, medium, or large. Coffee shops like to use italian for their coffee sizes. I don't speak italian, so I don't know if Venti, Tall, or Grande is the bigger size. Keep your coffee down (here in the USA) to small, medium or large please. I hear it everytime, I pass a starbucks "I'll have whatever the large is". Solve that problem and coffee ordering will be easier. That and if someone orders a coffee with no other verbs, you just get him a cup of damn, black (with cream and sugar) coffee.

    2. Re:Problem Solved by jjsimp · · Score: 1

      meant without cream and sugar.

  41. Re:People don't want to avoid people, just asshole by moeinvt · · Score: 2

    Wow! Where do I have to go to find the stores where they actually enforce that maximum number of items rule? I'm the guy with 6 things and a $20 bill waiting behind the person with 25 items and a malfunctioning debit card. The kids at this store where I often buy groceries have told me they're not supposed to give the customers a hard time even if they're over the limit.

  42. When things go wrong ... by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    it's when things go wrong that voice menus and web sites just seem to make simple problems into complicated ones.

    My experience is that when things go wrong the LAST person you want to have to deal with is an under-trained, demotivated human who just wants you and your problem to go away. They'll tell you whatever gets you out of their way and woe betide anyone who rocks up to their counter within 5 minutes of going-home time.

    Give me a computer every time.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  43. give me a person by Frontier+Owner · · Score: 1

    When I get somewhere Im tired. Im brain dead. I want a shower and a drink. I would rather step up to a desk, hand someone my passport and let them take care of everything. Just tell me what the room number is and hand me the card key. I've checked into dozens of airports and hundreds of hotels around the world.

  44. Win-win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More human interlocutors available for technophobes and lonely old people. Less friction in most transactions for most people. Immense relief for aspies. Less stress for call center monkeys. Everybody wins. I'm really looking forward to the day where I can restrict my human-to-human interactions to meaningful, personal stuff.

  45. Betteridge Wins this one. by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    I deal with IVR's day-in and day-out at my current 9-5.

    By "deal with," I of course mean "try and find the workaround to get to a real person as quickly as possible, before the goddamn automated system causes me to drive this handset through the wall, repeatedly."

    No, I don't think we have to worry about automated systems threatening human interaction anytime soon.

    Smartphones, on the other hand...

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  46. ZOMG TECHNOLOGY IS EVIL! by theScrewhead · · Score: 1

    Looking at it negatively is one way to look at things; it'll stop human interactions, bla bla bla. The other way of looking at it is that with all these new automations, it'll free up people from menial tasks and give them more time to spend with people they would actually like to spend time with.

  47. Machine vs human by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ordering a product remotely? Mostly prefer web based over talking to a person. (Especially if said person has an accent I cannot understand.)

    Checking in to airport or hotel? Prefer human. Most of the time I waste a bunch of time with the machines only to have some field it won't accept and I end up at a human anyway. I've had phone based menus do the same. After pressing a bunch of numbers progressing through the system, then getting told "Goodbye" and it hangs up on me without ever getting what I want, I get pretty annoyed. Fortunately, most systems accept pressing 0 at the start and directs you to a person.

    Anecdotal: It seems that when humans are eliminated from jobs, the business saves money and the consumer does not. So I'd rather see the people working.

    Better to pay for them at work, than pay for them on welfare.

  48. Automatically depositing a check? by sap · · Score: 1

    I'll take the bate.

    How quaint indeed. I find this whole notion of people still using checks as means to transfer money unbelivable. Having checks still as *the* way to pay for anything and not something from Victorian age London you go to a museum to wonder about. Weird. I really can't understand, how it is possible, for a technologically highly advanced country to not be able to switch to something other form of payment.

  49. Love it. by bogidu · · Score: 1

    Greetings and salutations. Welcome to the emergency line of the San Angeles Police Department. If you prefer an automated response, press one, now.

  50. keep on building new bank branches by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Long after ATMS could hand most physical money transactions and online banking about everything else. Maybe I visit a physical branch once a year at most. But I still see plenty of people in them on Saturdays.

  51. Free beer from people, not machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A long time ago I arrived at 2:00am, much delayed in Austin, TX. The Hertz counter was empty so I rang the buzzer. A guy came from the back, looked out the door, held up one finger and disappeared. He returned shortly with a Lone Star longneck and put it on the counter in front of me saying "You look like you need this. Now let's get you in a car." And back then in TX I could drive with an open bottle.

    When will a machine be able to do that? Or maybe when will a machine be ALLOWED to do that?

  52. Unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kiosks and all the drive-through windows help create a fat society and drive up unemployment.
    I don't use them at all if I can help it.

    Occasionally there are situations where there simply is no other option- the train station near me, for example.
    But I would rather stand in line for a few minutes at the store than support the replacement of people with machines when so many people NEED jobs.

  53. America: Puritan Automation by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Everywhere in the US, more and more low-end jobs are being phased out and being replaced by self-service or bots.

    But instead of transitioning our society to celebrate and support folks having more time for themselves and (horrors!) caring for their families, or being free to pursue intellectual and artisitic creation, this self-same society increasingly looks down on the great unwashed. We think they are lazy scum for not desiring to be an asshole robber baron, or not wanting to join in on the American Dream of six-figure debts - most of it ironically incurred from the higher education that is supposed to bring the Good Life.

    You lost your living wage to a robot? Tough shit; get two minimum wage, zero-benefit jobs to make up for it. The puritain work ethic, so beutifully advocated by Ebenezer Scrooge thrives still in 21st century America.

    This is part of what Roddenberry was expressing in Star Trek; a golden age of exploration and discovery instead of the old, savage ways of hunter-gatherer greed.

  54. Another Dimension: Dumbness by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

    Nuance who believe we simply never want to talk to a real human again, preferring the clipped, efficient tones of its Nina virtual assistant.

    I don't think that's it. I like lilt in a voice. I don't need a human for simple procedures, like checking in to a hotel, as some have noted.

    Here's another dimension, though: Dumbness. For things more complicated than a simple checkin, like checking out at the grocery store with produce, or finding out the details of the data plan on a possible cell phone purchase, what I care about is dumbness. I'm looking for the least dumb inteface, which usually goes in this priority order: Smart human, smart computer, average human, average computer, dumb human, dumb computer.

    The reason I avoid the human interface is because the corporations are hiring the cheapest idiots they can find, and their computer interfaces are average. So checking out with produce at my local grocery is painful at the computers, but a nightmare with the human. The human -- looking bedraggled from working the night shift at the meth lab -- asking questions like, "What is this?" "It's asparagus." "Is that a fruit or a vegetable?" "Argh. You're a vegetable."

    My ideal case, including RoI considerations, is to use an average computer most of the time, and have a token service fee for using a human ($5 or 5%, something on that order) -- but that human should be skilled and have both the knowledge and authority to complete the transaction, answer my questions, etc. I'm thinking they're getting paid $15 - $30/hour, and bringing in $30 - $50/hr in "enhanced service" fees (average including downtime).

    Obviously the details would change from context to context, and it doesn't work in all cases (like the Home Depot people wandering the aisles). Where it works, though, it would turn skilled human service people into a profit center instead of a cost center.

  55. Ancient news by mike.mondy · · Score: 1

    Decades ago, when the first bank ATMs were being marketed, bank managers were skeptical. They thought that customers preferred human tellers and thought that "people are not going to walk up to a machine and use it".

    The fact that people often prefer automated systems is *not* evidence that people don't like talking to or interacting with other people. It's evidence that people would rather deal with a robot than deal with a human in a stylized, scripted, robotic interaction. Efficiency, lack of fuss, predictablity, just getting it done, etc FTW!

    So, yeah. Automation threatens some roles previously done by humans. Editor as troll?

    tl;dr It's often preferable to interact with real automation than humans playing robots.

  56. Pet Peeve by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Grocery stores! Even if you self-check out (I don't as the post-scan loading areas are freaking miniscule!), you are handling the same items five times!

    1) Select items and place in cart.
    2) *Unload* everything to be scanned.
    3) *Reload* everything back into the cart for the short trip to:
    4) Unload into your car.
    5) Drive home, unload one more time and put your crap away.

    In this 'day and age', Steps 2 and 3 should not even exist, period!

    1. Re:Pet Peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then use the little handheld scanner things and scan everything when you put it into the cart. I've never seen the need, but the option is out there.

    2. Re:Pet Peeve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Place in hand-carried basket [select is redundant]
      2) Remove item and scan and while keeping item in hand
      3) Place item in fresh, PLASTIC bag next to scanner
      4) Bring bag home (leave empy basket behind).
      5) Enjoy free PLASTIC bag.

      Should 2/3 be eliminated? Maybe. Such a technology would be one of few things that might convince me to part with my lovely free PLASTIC bags. If I could walk in - maybe get weighed - pocket everything I want or place in knapsack/pack of my selection and then... walk out without - seemingly - paying. That would be the cat's ass. Checkout should optionally be automated with whatever tracks everything else.

  57. Time and companionship by paj1234 · · Score: 1

    Are one-third of Hyatt customers are men staying on their own? Could it be that after they check in, a woman arrives, on her own, in very high heeled shoes, and after an hour in his room, she then leaves again, and doesn't stay for breakfast?

  58. Re:People don't want to avoid people, just asshole by jjsimp · · Score: 1

    They'll just do what Walmart did, increase the limit number. Instead of the 10 items or less line, they have the 20 items or less line. I miss 10 items or less lines.

  59. The Article's a bit of a mess by Kimomaru · · Score: 1

    The acceptance and use of self-service checkins is not evidence that people don't want to talk to other humans. I can speak with some actual professional experience as a call center programmer that people are only interested in the straightest line betwen points A and B. That's it. If that means using self check in - great. If you have a severe problem, resolving that problem would very likely mean speaking with an actual person as quickly and easily as humanly possible - kiosks are not an appropriate mechanism for a complicated issue and a person in need needs an assurance from another human being that their problem has been addressed fully and promptly.

  60. Re:People don't want to avoid people, just asshole by admdrew · · Score: 1

    During my high school stint at a grocery store, we were told not to be sticklers for going over the item limit in the express lanes (especially since it's pretty easy to have over 10 or 15 grocery items), but that it was ok to strongly suggest customers with egregiously large orders go elsewhere, as long as you made an actual attempt to direct them to another, non-express, lane.

    Typically, though, grocery customers are pretty self-policing; most people don't like to be embarrassed with a huge order with a bunch of people behind in line, judging them. Those that don't care about the people behind them are 1) thankfully far rarer and 2) going to go through the express lane anyway while giving roughly 0 fucks.

    In general, I sorta learned there that when providing customer service you can get people to do pretty much anything if you're simply professional, courteous, confident, and genuinely attempt to be helpful (ie, do your job). The vast majority of people will listen to you without making a stink, and the assholes who *do* make a scene are typically just looking for someone to yell at.

  61. Where are the regulators? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the FUCK is there no regulation that contact centers meet certain standards?
    1. there must always be a way to get to a human operator when your problem doesn't fit their poorly designed IVR.
    2. If you ask me to enter some piece of information, you should get fined for subsequent redundant requests.
    3. allow consumers to complain and rate the phone support of an organization and investigate any with a large volume of complaints.
    Who do us consumers need to bribe? Maybe we need our own well paid lobbyists?

    I am battling with a govt IVR as we speak and I am furious at the level of incompetence in the IVR implementation.

  62. IVR hell by KingSkippus · · Score: 1

    True story: A few years ago I got sick as a dog, running fever, having chills, and relevantly to this story, I had a nasty case of laryngitis. I wasn't just hoarse, I just plain couldn't talk. I called my insurance company to get some information I needed to go to the doctor, and I had one of those damn voice menus. "Please say your social security number!"...

    I tried entering it in using touch tones, but it wouldn't work. The damn thing insisted that I say my social security number, and it wouldn't let me talk to anyone until I did. And I tried, too. Oh lord, I did try. I could get enough weird sounds out that a human could probably understand what I was saying, but my voice was breaking up so badly that the IVR couldn't decipher it.

    I ended up going to the doctor anyway, and they had someone from the receptionist desk help me out with the insurance stuff because according to that insurance company, if you can't talk, you don't get help.

    To this day, I think that any company worth its salt should give you the option of dropping to a human operator to help you. There are just too many things that can go wrong with an IVR, and too many problems that are simply unsolvable via automated response systems.

    1. Re:IVR hell by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Hopefully you complained to the insurance company and explained this exact situation.

  63. IVR = Interactive Voice Response (system) by CityZen · · Score: 1

    In case you were wondering. It's telephone menu systems taken to the next level.

  64. My experience. by koan · · Score: 1

    The reason I prefer the machine interface, the reason I prefer shopping online, is that machines have manners, don't stink, don't have 5 pounds of metal in their face (well actually they might but it would be required metal), and can hold a simple instruction like "medium coffee with room for cream" for longer than 2 seconds "uhhh...that was a large Americano...?" "no a medium coffee with room for cream".

    People can be stupid, unreliable and just plain unpleasant to look at.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  65. Begone with those machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. No. No.

    In the last few years, all the larger stores have installed "self service checkouts", where you scan your goods yourself and pay by inserting cash or card into the machine.

    The front of the store has become a cacophony of six automated voices constantly saying "unexpected item in bagging area".

    Personally, I avoid these machines at all costs. Even if there is no queue for the machines, I will queue for as long as it takes at the traditional checkout because I place value in the person serving me, and in having a person serve me. I am even prepared to pay [a little] more for my groceries if it means the difference between human interaction or not.

    At the airport, it is becoming harder and harder to actually do this, because the airlines are in a race to the bottom in terms of service, as they are competing entirely on price. If you want actual service from an airline these days you need to pay a significant amount more for it.

  66. ATMs by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Thats what I heard 20 years ago: people prefer ATMs to human tellers because the ATMs are friendlier.

  67. Useless by Mike+Frett · · Score: 1

    I see what you're doing Anti-social world, but you will be unable to avoid social interaction once the Human virus has fully infected Earth and the only Air you breathe is that of the Humanoid squished against you with the slight stench of Garlic radiating from his orifice and the only space you have is located two inches away; between the untied Shoe laces and Human excrement.

    Your Future awaits.

  68. Non native speakers by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    Did the study evaluate the amount of non native speakers visiting the hotel? If you do not speak fluently the receptionist's language, it is much more comfortable to deal with the virtual keyboard of a kiosk.

  69. People aren't necessarily better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever call AT&T customer service regarding U-Verse? Maybe it's gotten better over the last 4 years but last time I called them:

    The first person to answer questioned what phone number I called and refused to believe that I called the number I stated I did, despite the fact I was staring at my Caller ID screen and holding the welcome letter with the phone number listed on it. After 5 minutes of that dispute she finally transferred me to the regional technical support office which told me they were not the correct office to assist and transferred me over to a 3rd person that could only schedule a technician visit. In the end, the technician never arrived and I cancelled the service for a full refund since they never hooked it up in the first place.

    By contrast, Pac-Bell at one time had a phone system with which you could schedule a technician visit without needing to speak to a single human being. It gave you the available days and time slots available for you to choose from and their technicians actually showed up (albeit usually late).