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Israeli Firm Makes Kilomile Claims For Electric Car Battery Tech
cylonlover writes with this tantalizing excerpt from GizMag "Israel-based company Phinergy claims to have developed metal-air battery technology that promises to end the range anxiety associated with electric vehicles. The company's battery currently consists of 50 aluminum plates, each providing energy for around 20 miles (32 km) of driving. This adds up to a total potential range of 1,000 miles (1,609 km), with stops required only every couple of hundred miles to refill the system with water."
From TFA (I know, but there were no comments yet ;-):
The company says the aluminum plate anodes in its aluminum-air battery have an energy density of 8 kWh/kg, but the batteries are not rechargeable. Once the energy is expended, the plates, which add up to around 55 pounds (25 kg) per battery, need to be replaced. However, the company points out that aluminum is easily recyclable and that swapping the battery out for a fresh one is quicker than recharging.
That makes it a lot less appealing, I would say...
a fuel cell, not a battery.
Kilomile? Yes, let's combine two units of measure arbitrarily.
So the battery supposedly has a 1,000 mile range, but you have to stop every 100 to 200 miles to refill it with water? ... So it only has a 100-200 mile range. And on top of that, it's a disposable (recyclable) battery, not a rechargable one ... pros and cons to that, but it does require an infrastructure of replacement battery stations. Certainly better in my opinion than a charging station, but at least charging stations exist.
In the end, if the aluminium can be recycled completely to make new batteries, then, this has potential. Depends now on cost, safety, ease of maintenance and most of all performance. You can do 1000 miles.. at what average speed?
Nope. It is suppressed by "Big Physics". Their "recycle the aluminum" isn't what most people think of recycling. It is reprocessing and it takes huge amounts of electricity.
The electricity cost is one reason places like Iceland and Upper Volta have courted ALCOA and other big aluminum smelters. Cheap electricity costs.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Why was this modded down? If he had said the same thing about South Africa while Mandela was in prison, it would be pumped up to +5 immediately. Israel is an apartheid government, with a state religion! We should be boycotting them AND Saudi Arabia.. but such is the power of money...
with stops required only every couple of hundred miles to refill the system with water.
Then the system has a range of a "couple of hundred miles" and not 1000. It has a *charge* for 1000 miles, but the car's range is only as good as your worst stat.
They treat people of different citizenship differently. Apartheid! They have the audacity to set up checkpoints at the border of their territory. Apartheid! My god. They built a wall. Apartheid! Never-mind the violence of the intifadas and the fact that the security measures have *worked*, it's "Apartheid!" This is nothing like SA, where there were laws in place discriminating against people on the basis of race. I see nothing wrong with treating people of different nationalities differently. Muslims who hold Israeli citizenship have *exactly* the same rights as Jews... in some cases even more considering they do not have to serve in the Military. Were this not the case, you might have a point, but it's not, and you don't. All you serve to do is insult the people who suffered under actual apartheid.
actually, such is the power of a group in controlling American media and thus the mindset of the average moron, mod gp up.
Only I can judge you.
Who the fuck came up with that dumb word? Someone needs a nice hearty punch in the dick for that.
well I DON'T buy 4 of whatever you're buying, so I'm canceling YOU out!
omg! They have the audacity to destroy the economy of a group of people whose land they happen to be illegally occupying. Zomg! They have the audacity to decide they like any piece of land being farmed by a Palestinian and illegally raze the land and put up new condos for their "settlers". Zomg^2! They can roll up to any Palestinian occupied farm, park their mobile home, claim harassment and soon have a garrison of Israeli stormtroopers protecting "their" newly settled land. Not to mention the bombing of innocent women and children.
Only I can judge you.
"You do realize that whenever one of you assholes boycotts some Israeli company, I make sure to buy 2 of whatever they're selling"
That won't work. Firstly he wanted to draw attention to this BDS Israel boycott, and he succeeded, and you helped him. Pro Israeli mod's used their mod points to drive it to -1, but you are at +2 and it flags the comments for others to read. I would never have read his comment if you weren't there flagging it.
Secondly, each time you buy two, you're wasting your money. It's always easier for him to avoid any Israeli products, because they don't have an exclusive on anything he wants. He doesn't go without, he just chooses a competitor's product. You on the other hand, end up paying twice, and have to buy the Israel product, even if there was better or cheaper ones.
So to him its a triple win, 1. he boycotts Israel, 2. he got you to promote his comment, and 3. you end up being punished for your counter boycott by paying at least double.
Plus you flag yourself as irrationally pro-Israel in any future discussion, which will prevent you from appearing to be any sensible balanced viewpoint on Israel.
that's ok, because I then boycott them twice as much, lets see who runs out of money first.
Only I can judge you.
The problem is that Israel does not allow the Palestinians to make anything at all. They have a controlled border, they can't even import concrete to repair the buildings that Israel has blown up.
Olive oil & soap ?
I'm not a coward by any name.
**woosh***
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Consumers don't want this. They want something to recharge at home during the night without having to visit "stations" in order to refill water or aluminium. Also, we already have a distribution system for electricity and gas, there will be no costly third aluminiumbattery-system.
640 miles should be enough for anyone.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
There has been a claim of "revolutionary battery technology" from some US energy lab every month- carbon nanotubes, lithium air, etc. But few have ramped up to daily production road use. And few have gone bankrupt with $100s millions US DOE grants along the way.
I really, truly hope one of these claims becomes reality one day. I would like a 1000-mile electric car in my garage that costs the same as a petro car.
Seriously, this looks like a great way to range extend electric cars by putting it on a small tow-able trailer, or something that plugs into the rear similar to the trailer hitch carriers.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I love the units used in the summary title. Kilomile? A better statement would be Megameter.
Depends on the vehicle. the Tesla roadster carries a 53kWh battery and has a 240ish mile range, with the "best" being a 311 mile trip. That's pretty close to 1000 miles on 200kWh.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Clue time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan
The South Africans claimed that blacks, coloured, Indians, etc., were not their citizens. They were in fact citizens of powerless, discontinuous territories that were basically controlled by South Africa. Since there was no work in these bantustans, the majority of their population commuted through South African checkpoints each day. They also claimed increasing amounts of territory for their own minority, ethnically defined population.
Also, Israeli's dominant, "centre right" party Likud claims that God wants Jewish Israelis to have all the territory for themselves (all of what was previously British Palestine). South African Boer culture included similar thoughts.
The parallels are not unreasonable.
The map is not the territory.
2)Price wise, the cost to replace 55 pounds of aluminum is about equal to gas. Maybe a little lower if you get paid back some for the used aluminum. Not much, but at least a small gain economically. Pollution wise it is worth it.
3) Range of a gas car is normally around 300 to 400 miles. (http://solarchargeddriving.com/editors-blog/on-evs-a-phevs/706-whats-your-gasoline-cars-range.html) Range of a car using this technology should easily be the same (just because some idiot thought they need to refill the battery with water every 100 miles doesn't mean a good engineer can't install a large spare water tank to refill it on the go.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Israelis do not hold that all Muslims or Arabs are not citizens. That is an important distinction which you miss, unintentionally or otherwise. There were no suicide bombers in SA either.
If Hamas, for example, was allowed concrete, they would build bunkers and fortified tunnels for smuggling rockets and it would never get to the people who need it. There are good reasons certain things are restricted.
There was a war. About 20 percent of the "palestinians" chose to stay and fight with the Jews. They, and their children, are still living in Israel. Those who voluntarily left were not allowed to return. Then there were two more wars, instigated by the Muslims, in which Israel gained land. I don't think land Israelis paid for their lives for in a defensive war should be returned.
If the battery were slung under the vehicle (as an another Israeli firm called Better Place proposes), then it could even be swapped out just by driving the car on to a ramp where a robotic arm extracts and replaces it in minutes. Also the battery is for exceptional situations so that 1000 miles might deplete very slowly since drivers would rely on rechargeable cells for the most part. So you might only have to do this once a month or once every half a year depending on your driving patterns.
Of course could be lots of reasons that this is a terrible idea. What's the energy cost of producing a battery and recycling it? What's the cost of building out an infrastructure? How many batteries would a car need to haul around to justify the additional range it supplied? Does the battery degrade when it's not in use or when it's used just once? Would other metal-air batteries be safe or cheaper to use? And so on.
No, it is not a fuel cell. In this case, it is a CHEMICAL REACTION of water with aluminum. A fuel cell is basically, a catalysts for a fuel and oxidizer. IOW, with a fuel cell, you can continue to run it by inputting fuel/oxidizer. This is not the case.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Muslims who hold Israeli citizenship have *exactly* the same rights as Jews...
And they frequently have more rights than they would if they were living in a predominantly-Muslim country. I've met a journalist who is Arab and an Israeli citizen, and he much prefers being able to criticize the decisions made by the Israeli government over living in any of the surrounding countries where doing so would get him executed.
No. There are not good reasons to restrict certain things, like concrete or food or medicine. Israel is committing ethnic cleansing and running a ghetto. They are in the wrong, period.
Israel is an apartheid government
Lets review the facts:
Arab citizens of Israel can vote.
Arab citizens of Israel can run for office and get elected.
Arab citizens of Israel serve on the supreme court.
Arab citizens of Israel can sue the government and win.
Arab citizens of Israel can worship as they please.
Sure sounds like apartheid to me!
Israel does not force Judaism on its citizens. You may be thinking of Hamas in Gaza, which has been enforcing Islam and intimidating people to convert to Islam. They have religious police enforcing dress codes and most recently segregated all schools by gender, including private schools.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
Well, if we use just that battery, I'd agree, but I think any rationally designed electric car will use a combination of heavy duty batteries or fuel cells, supplemented by rechargeable lithium ion batteries, or more likely, high-capacity supercapacitors to handle sudden surges in load and allow for regenerative braking.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
There was a war. About 20 percent of the "palestinians" chose to stay and fight with the Jews. They, and their children, are still living in Israel. Those who voluntarily left were not allowed to return.
.... and then the Government of Israel handed out the land of those who were not allowed to return to Jewish settlers.
That sounds like pretty neat description of ethnic cleansing to me.
They were convinced to leave by the surrounding countries, the rulers of which had hoped that Israel won't last for long and all the property would be up for grabs Real Soon Now(tm) and that they just needed a clean line of fire at the Israelis. It didn't materialize, and now they're screwed.
Ezekiel 23:20
Yes, but unlike a beer can in this case the aluminum is probably being converted back to bauxite (or something similar) within the battery as it delivers power, so recycling it will require reinvesting all that energy again. Actually rather ingenious if the efficiencies work out well - aluminum is both energy dense and stable, and the recharging/refining process has already benefited from many decades of industrial scale optimization.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
I think your first point is fair; there are Muslim/Arab Israeli citizens, and they have representation in their parliament as well. They are very small in number, though, so the net result is the same as South Africa: a single ethnic group that dominates the country.
Your second point I don't agree with. The SA authorities considered the African National Congress to be a terrorist group. There was violence committed by black South Africans and it was called terrorism. Mandela himself was jailed for allegations of terrorism, and not officially for his political ideas. In both cases the violence is only one-sided if you fail to consider the actions of the police and army, who I consider to be perpetrating violence on behalf of the majority and powers that be.
I would like to see one of two things happen in Israel:
1) The Palestinians get a real, viable state. There's different options here, like a demilitarized state, and different possible partitions but it should be a real state and not a bantustan. This option is favoured by some former Israeli intelligence officers as it basically maintains the status quo, but reduces the instability of the conflict.
2) The whole territory becomes part of Israel, and everyone who lives there is an Israeli citizen. Everyone is allowed to vote and has equal protection under the law. Jews would not be a strong majority under these conditions, as the current split in the former British Palestine is about 50/50 Jew/Arab, with more growth on the Arab side.
Right now Israel seem to be combining parts of 1) and 2) to their advantage, which is hardly fair and not sustainable.
The map is not the territory.
Gays can serve in the military. Even gay marriage is recognized, which is more than can be said for most of Europe or the US.
What makes suicide bombers so much worse than non-suicide bombers?
Ethnic cleansing? There are somewhere around a billion Arabs in the ME. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.
Actually seems pretty similar to gas to to me, except that you're replacing the tank as well as the fuel.
The one improvement I could see is using something like ten 5-plate batteries rather than one 50-plate battery and, insofar as possible, draining them sequentially. That way you could replace just one or two spent batteries to "top off the tank" after using a couple hundred miles of range extension. By coordinating with the rechargable battery that wouldn't seem to be too difficult even if you would normally need most of the batteries in parallel to provide peak power - just have an "optimized range extension" switch on the dash that would drain your weakest extended battery(s) to manitain cruising speed and save the rechargable for when a little extra "oomph" is necessary.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Brawndo! It's got what batteries crave! It's got electrolytes!
Yes, everybody thought the battery was powered by magical fairies rather than needing electricity.
If only there was a name for something for which you could take huge amounts of electricity and use it to change the chemical structure of that something. And then you could cause the chemical structure to change back and produce that electricity again (well a large portion of it, 100% efficiency doesn't seem to work often in this universe). Especially if you could control that chemical change so that it happened when you wanted and only as much as you wanted. Even better would be if it could be easily transported and was reasonably stable and could hold a lot of energy per unit of mass.
How about I propose I name for such a thing: "A really good battery" has a nice ring to it.
Heck Yeah! It's just too bad that trickle-charging is almost useless for range extension - if your car consumes 10kW to maintain cruising speed then even if you can provide a 1kW "trickle" you'll only extend your range by about 10%. The real benefit is just that you don't need a charging station to recharge when parked.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
He does not claim that is the definition. In fact he refers to it as a battery himself, as in "you have to throw the aluminum battery away once you've used it". He is just complaining that it is not a rechargeable battery.
For decades Iceland has been contemplating ways to export their cheap geothermal electricity, and aluminum batteries are one such idea. I'll leave it to someone not on a mobile phone to do a detailed search, but here is one link: http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=765&first=3858&end=3857 The gist of Slashdot's linked to adver.... uh, article, is they think they have improved the process. Of course it appears they do it in their own custom built demonstration vehicle. There are ways to make custom built gas cars get almost that range on a tank of gas, but they aren't anything most of us would want to drive, and wouldn't pass US safety standards. So although this is probably good news, it also probably isn't as exciting or new as the marketing hype.
I see this as pretty unproblematic.
It's widely recognized from European humanitarian law that people form an attachment to a country after just a few years of living there, which is so strong that it's potentially a gross violation of removing them.
That means the descendants of the Palestinians who moved out by now have a pretty intractable attachment to their new countries.
If you are going to argue that people can have an undeniable attachment to a country because their parents were born there, then that puts deportation of illegal immigrants who have been out of their country of birth for 20-30-40 years into a whole new light.
They do, however, apply a separate legal framework to Palestinians than they do to Israeli Jews. Which is also the literal definition of apartheid....
Who the [...] came up with that dumb word [kilomile]?
Probably a techie, used to using prefixes to indicate power of ten scaling factors when talking about large or small counts or measurements.
But it's a perfectly valid construction. Quantities measured in non-metric units can also be expressed in base 10.
Assuming you CAN count in base 10, of course. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Oh I agree it's technically valid, but how can you say it without feeling shame? I should change my second sentence there, too. They need a kilopunch in the microdick. Topical!
The "Jews" that stole the land and live there now are from Europe. They have no relation to the indigenous people. And either way. By your 'reasoning' the North American Indians have the right to take back their land also. I say we should hand them a few nukes and tell them to go for it.
So what's your opinion on stealth bombers then?