Microsoft Game Director Adam Orth Resigns Following Xbox Comments

DavidGilbert99 writes "According to anonymous sources, Microsoft's game director Adam Orth has left the company following a series of comments on Twitter about the rumoured always-on aspect of the next generation Xbox console. It is still unclear if Orth left voluntarily or was pushed out but either way it's not good news for Microsoft." If you'd prefer your news without obnoxious auto-playing video ads (with sound!), IGN reports Orth's departure, too.

Comments

Fantastic.

[popoutman]

This is one appropriate course of action for someone in that position that made those comments. However it should have been treated publicly as a firing offence though instead of a graceful exit, as most companies I know would have seen these communications as an example of gross incompetence and would have treated accordingly.

Re:Fantastic.

[JDG1980]

If Orth had been a rank-and-file developer, then firing him for these comments would have been overkill. But he's in a management role high enough in the Xbox hierarchy that anything he says in public might be interpreted as representing the company's official position. For someone like this, generating good PR is actually supposed to be a part of their job – and he obviously isn't any good at that. In Stan Lee's immortal words, with great power there must always come great responsibility.

Re:Fantastic.

[gameboyhippo]

Sometimes a person can be both gracious and just. Nobody is perfect and will make mistakes in their career. So if we would not like to be publically humiliated, why call on Microsoft to publically humiliate Orth? So what if it's a PR disaster. Things happen.

If you're just upset about Microsoft's always on DRM, then buy a Wii U or PS4.

Re:Fantastic.

[nitehawk214]

If a rank and file employee says "deal with it" to their customers on a very public forum, and it generates large amount of negative media buzz, you can damn well bet they are going to be fired.

Re:Fantastic.

[spleck]

Exactly. He had "Microsoft Studios Creative Director" as his title on Twitter. If you don't want to appear to be speaking for the company you work for, don't slap your title on there.

Re:Fantastic.

[ozmanjusri]

why call on Microsoft to publically humiliate Orth?

Exactly. he deserves our support, not this tarring and feathering. At least he was honest and said what others at Microsoft clearly thought and intended, but were too sly to admit publicly. Those sly, dishonest people are the only ones who've been damaged by his comments..

Thanks to him, potential buyers of this product know what they're facing. Any potential customers here should be thanking him for giving them the heads-up.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

If a rank and file employee says "deal with it" to their customers on a very public forum, and it generates large amount of negative media buzz, you can damn well bet they are going to be fired.

You're not understanding this. When you speak as a representative of a company, you can (and often will) be fired for saying the wrong things. If a rank and file employee makes such a comment and is NOT speaking as a company Rep, they won't get fired. There also won't be any buzz because as a rank and file employee, nobody will really know (or care) if you work for that company or not.
But when you're in a position like this guy was, any thing you say publicly will be treated as if it was an official company statement, so you can be fired even if you didn't mean it to be public.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why?

I mean, the comments weren't the offensive part, the offensive part was the policy that the comments revealed. And that policy (the part where your game console automatically stops working if it loses Internet access for more than three minutes) is still going to happen.

Or was the "gross incompetence" the reveal of that policy without enough bullshitting to make it seem like a "feature"?

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

In Stan Lee's immortal words, with great power there must always come great responsibility

With great power comes great current squared times resistance

Re:Fantastic.

[poetmatt]

This is absolutely and entirely incorrect. Nobody pushed MS to do anything, they chose to do it on their own. They could have left him with the company.

Orth deserves no support here. He said the most intellectually dishonest things that could possibly be said. That's not defensible.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

He was a bit of a pompous ass if you ask me.

Dislcaimer: I have no interest in microsoft products either way.

Re:Fantastic.

[UnknownSoldier]

Oh how naive! Where have you been all last year ...

Counter-example: Blizzard's Diablo 3 Directory Jay Wilson

Re:Fantastic.

[ozmanjusri]

He said the most intellectually dishonest things that could possibly be said.

What did he say that was more intellectually dishonest than;

“we apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers.”

Are you sure you're not getting things mixed up here?

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you read his tweets? What about them is gracious?

Re:Fantastic.

[shadowrat]

Orth deserves no support here. He said the most intellectually dishonest things that could possibly be said. That's not defensible.

I don't see it as intellectually dishonest. What Orth said is probably EXACTLY what the company thinks when consumers complain about it. They pushed him out because he was too honest.

What do you think is going to happen now? The internet connection requirement is going to vanish from xbox? that Orth was somehow the evil genius behind it all? Now that he's gone the rest of microsoft will start singing ding dong the witch is dead and only do what is in our best interest? No. it's still there. They are still pushing for it. It's just that they are going to work harder on making you think it's there because you want it.

We honestly should hold the guy [Orth] up as an idol. he was accurately communicating what the company thinks of it's consumers and allowing us to see through the fog of marketing and make informed purchasing choices.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

they should already knwo what their facing. paying to play multiplayer games, AND paying for the games. no xbox for me, ever.

Re:Fantastic.

[interkin3tic]

However it should have been treated publicly as a firing offence though instead of a graceful exit

It SHOULD have been treated with a repudiation of intrusive DRM.

The bluntness of his tweets was utterly inconsequential. MS cares about the PR disaster, but that's not the underlying issue. The fact that they think it's okay to treat their customers like they're Lance Armstrong trying to enter the Tour de France this year, is.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck yeah, Science, bitches!

Re:Fantastic.

[Tridus]

When he started saying stuff like "why would anyone want to live there?" in response to comments about not having quality broadband available everywhere in the US, he stepped across the line into general jackass territory.

Re:Fantastic.

[hairyfeet]

Because unless he was drunk it was douchebaggery and most folks hate douchebags?

Of course the bigger problem for MSFT is the cat is now out the bag which means they won't get the early adopters that actually read the Internet, especially since Sony made it VERY clear after the whole thing broke that the PS4 will NOT be online only. But considering this is the same company that has given us such "hits" as Zune, Kin, Zune Market (boy THAT was fucking retarded, they had with playsforsure a growing rental business that was looking like it could compete with the Apple model and just shot it in the head for a lame appstore ripoff), shoving the X360 out with a billion dollar flaw, paying insane amounts for an ad company that went nowhere and for Yahoo Search which likewise did squat, and finally the twin clusterfucks of Win 8 and WinRT? Honestly doing stupid market killing shit isn't even a surprise anymore, hell its practically their SOP.

Frankly the only thing shocking about the whole thing is that it took us this long to find out MSFT was gonna do something retarded and kill any lead they had in the market, I swear they must have run anybody with a brain out of that company for a bunch of PHBs that sit around reading The Financial Times and throw any buzzwords they see into PPTs for new products. It really shouldn't be a surprise though, it even fits perfectly into my theory that every major success with that company can be preceded with "And then the other guy did something REALLY dumb" as the reason the X360 took off was Sony hamstringing the PS4 with a $600 price that was twice what the market would bear. Now that Sony has grown a brain its time for MSFT to shoot itself in the foot once again, because God forbid they capitalize on past success instead of killing any forward momentum playing buzzword bingo.

Re:Fantastic.

[gameboyhippo]

That's the beauty of grace. It makes life not fair.

Grace isn't grace if it is given only to the gracious. That's merciless justice. Grace goes beyond being merciful and withholding wrath. It is to give one undeserved respect and forgiveness. It is something that the Internet community as a whole has forgotten how to do.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm always on Adam Orth's dick. -- ozmanjusri

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

putting your job title anywhere should never automatically mean that. you want official company comments, go to said company's twitter feed. end.of.story. i am so sick of corporate nonsense like this.

Re:Fantastic.

[dstyle5]

"Thanks to him, potential buyers of this product know what they're facing. Any potential customers here should be thanking him for giving them the heads-up."

Actually they don't, because nothing has been formally announced or proven beyond a doubt yet about what Microsoft's next device requires. If anything we can thank him for showing Microsoft and other gaming companies just how much people loathe always online.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obvious that he got fired. Being asked to resign is the same thing and there is no "grace" in it.

Also

Re:Fantastic.

[tlhIngan]

Of course the bigger problem for MSFT is the cat is now out the bag which means they won't get the early adopters that actually read the Internet, especially since Sony made it VERY clear after the whole thing broke that the PS4 will NOT be online only. But considering this is the same company that has given us such "hits" as Zune, Kin, Zune Market (boy THAT was fucking retarded, they had with playsforsure a growing rental business that was looking like it could compete with the Apple model and just shot it in the head for a lame appstore ripoff), shoving the X360 out with a billion dollar flaw, paying insane amounts for an ad company that went nowhere and for Yahoo Search which likewise did squat, and finally the twin clusterfucks of Win 8 and WinRT? Honestly doing stupid market killing shit isn't even a surprise anymore, hell its practically their SOP.

Many people forget parts of the Xbox360 are "online only" right now.

Think about it - you buy a digital download game from Microsoft. Your license includes anyone on the purchasing console, or the Xbox Live account of the purchaser (so you can play your game on the original purchasing console offline, or play the game on any other console while logged into Xbox Live (free or paid).

The thing is, if you're disconnected from Live, your game ends. If you're not using the on-purchasing-console license, then a momentary blip in Xbox Live connectivity will end the game.

So the fact that it's changed to 3 minutes could be a good thing if it means your game doesn't end the instant you drop offline because the modem or router rebooted.

The real point is, no one knows what he means because a tweet is too damn short to go into details. Good soundbite, yes, but awful when the devil's in the details.

Hell, it could be an option for publishers as well - if they wish, they can have always on connectivity (i.e., must be logged into Xbox Live (either free or paid)) for their title. (Microsoft Studios is Microsoft's first-party publisher, so their head would think the same way as EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc, which can put it in conflict with Xbox (the console/service/backend/etc) heads).

Of course, it's like saying there's an Apple smartwatch on the way - it's all rumors until it's announced, and Microsoft hasn't said anything yet.

Hell, the PS4 was rumored to require an always-on connection as well. And that it won't play used games.

Heck, there are games for iOS and Android that require always-on connections as well - doesn't mean the SGS5 or iPhone 6 will require it. Steam was always-on as well unless you used offline mode.

All we know for sure is the ex-head of Microsoft Studios doesn't see always-on as a problem. Whether it translates to the Xbox head is a completely different question.

Re:Fantastic.

[Tmann72]

Love it!

Re:Fantastic.

[Tmann72]

All consoles are DRM by nature. You can't take that disc and play it on any other console. A wii u game can only play on the wii u. This is a form of DRM even if you don't realize it.

Re:Fantastic.

[tachin1]

They didn't fire him because he made inappropriate comments, if anything he was fired for telling the truth. Are we really expecting these companies to screw us over as long as they lie to us?
And then we complain when those companies employees say the truth by saying they are evil?
Just because Orth left, that wont change the fact that Microsoft will still go ahead and do what he said and do it with the same attitude, "You don't like it? deal with it!"

There's a real sense in which Orth failed at his post, and he may yet deserve being fired, but it also means that we want to be lied to, and we expect company employees to hide the truth from us.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Re:Fantastic.

[gameboyhippo]

You're correct. I think the OP's problem is a form of DRM called "Always On DRM". This prevents a product from working unless it has an active connection to a DRM server via the Internet. The Wii U does not have this since games can be played offline and, afaik, the PS4 will also not have this.

Re:Fantastic.

[lgw]

Or as Hamlet said "use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping? Use them after your own honor and dignity: the less they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty."

IMO this is a profound realization about morality.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Emulation.

I can take my Wii disc and play it on my PC with emulation.

Sure there is still DRM, but it's not anywhere as extreme as Always Online. I can play the Wii disc even if Nintendo shuts down as a company. That doesn't apply to the software that has Always Online DRM.

Re:Fantastic.

[davros74]

Microsoft eventually got this right, IMO, with the X360.

Yes, downloaded content will only work on the original console it was purchased from (by serial number) or the Xbox Live Account. However, I suffered through no fewer than 3 red-rings of death from 2006-2009.

The first console came back with a different board, different serial number. My content would only work by logging into Xbox Live. Royal PITA.
Second console came back but MSFT allowed the content to be re-downloaded and authorized on my new serial number. While a royal pain, after re-downloading everything, it would work offline again.

Skip ahead to about 2009-2010 time frame. MSFT finally put the option to TRANSFER your content from one box serial number to another on their website. It is restricted to one use per 6 months, so it cannot be abused, but lets the user move their content to another console if their old console is broken, sold or they purchase a newer model. I did this in 2011 when I upgraded to an S-series xbox.

I personally think this is a fine compromise to DRM. Online connection always authorizes the content. Offline is allowed by serial number of original purchase. Serial number of primary device is transferrable to another console at the user's discretion (with some restrictions, once per 6 month period, etc).

Without that last feature, however, I consider the DRM draconian. I took my originally repaired console with me one xmas to my in-laws, and found I couldn't play my Oblivion game because my saved game had used Knights of the Nine and without internet access I could not play. However, I could load an older save file that was created before I had any DLC content for that game. My in-laws at the time only had dial-up modem (56K), so it rendered most of the content useless.

If this is the future of gaming, I will not be participating. I will punt on the next Xbox and especially if it has no backwards compatibility. I think it is reasonable expectation from consumers that a new device should at least be able to play games from it's predecessor, but not go back further than that. But if that is what happens, so be it, there is plenty of good (OLD) games I would like to play again via Steam or GoG.com on my PC.

Re:Fantastic.

[Rotag_FU]

My understanding is that he was a creative director at Microsoft. Is that honestly that high of a position there? At other large companies, such titles are very common and often imply only moderate leadership (e.g., second tier management) or a relatively senior individual contributor. How many of us would have known his name if not for this debacle?

My point is that it very well may have been an expectation that any twitter followers of his were friends or acquaintances who would be reasonably familiar with his sense of humor and/or debate styles. It seems clear by the tone that he was at best playing a devil's advocate and at worst trolling a friend. Now it is hugely stupid for him to simply assume that no strangers would follow him on twitter and he should have made his twitter account private from the start if he was going to say such things. However, it isn't a reasonable response to "resign" ( * cough * fire * cough *) someone over this.

I'm not saying that Microsoft doesn't have the legal right to terminate his employment for this, just that it is disproportionate to the actual action taken. Remember, he came off as an arrogant person with an opinion on a technical aspect of a game console design. I'm sure no one on Slashdot could be accused of the same heinous crime. It isn't like he said something racist, misogynistic, threatening, or even particularly offensive. Heck he didn't even officially confirm that there was a new Xbox or that it actually had this particular feature. He just argued (poorly) that it wasn't a big deal.

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Normally I'd post under my handle but honestly I don't want my hands anywhere NEAR this shit - so AC it is for me.

Every year we here, at MSFT, go through a significant online training course with testing throughout and a sign-off at the end. This holds up as "we told your dumb ass not to do this and you agreed" in court. Rank and file get this as a bit of small talk in NEO (new employee orientation), but at some point in the next few weeks (never mind you signed an NDA and that verbiage it says "won't disclose or discuss" current developments.

He also wasn't PR.

Since it's so public he "WILL" be used as an example, with some facts changed.

This isn't a secret government program that feeding kids paint chips or secretly putting people in jail just because they're Middle-eastern and wearing an extremely common Casio watch (God how I wish I was making the last one up :( )

This was a corporation that had policies in place defining interactions like this and you agree, contractually, to follow them.
In fact when I have something to say in a forum and it's not something that they'd get worked up over I've got no issues disclosing that I work for MSFT but am careful to put a "these are my opinions and those of my employer" at the top of the post.

Perfect? No.

It's better, however, than being known in the industry as "Oh yeah he's that jack ass who got canned for blabbing." whenever you interview somewhere.

Re:Fantastic.

[JGuru42]

The problem with what you are saying there is that I own a few games (Braid, Shadow Complex) that I bought from Live Arcade on my account. I can play these games on my XBox without any internet connection required at all at this point. In fact, for the longest time the only way I could even get net access on my XBox was to patch it through my laptop which was far too annoying to do for more than getting an update.

The only time I would need to have an internet connection would be if I moved the authorization for my account to another console with the original online. Then I would need the connection to move the account back over the original machine to be able to use it.

If I move the authorization over to a second console while the first console is unplugged from the internet so it never discovers that I've deauthorized it then I can use the games on both machines at the same time. I had actually done this at one point when I was running tests on a friends XBox that I had taken apart to repair and update.

I personally despise this idea of going to the store and buying a physical game disc for a single player offline game only to not be able to play it if I can not keep internet access up and working on my XBox. I'll accept that for any game that is online multiplayer only but I refuse to be online for a game that is single player.

I have no problem voting with my wallet on this either. I own copies of Warcraft 2 & 3 and their addons, Diablo 1 & Hellfire, Diablo 2 & Lord of Destruction, Starcraft 1 and Brood War and Starcraft 2: WOL. I also played WoW up through Lich King. I was looking forward to playing Diablo 3 when it came out until I discovered I could not play it when offline. Diablo 3 ended up being one of the only Blizzard games that I have not bought and it was entirely because of the always online requirement. I was fine with WoW needing a connection at all times because it's the nature of the game type. Diablo 2 might have been better with multiple players but it also worked just fine solo and I would imagine D3 is the same as you can play in a private game by yourself, albeit not in an offline mode.

So if Microsoft continues with this concept they have going on they will not be seeing another console purchase from me.

Re:Fantastic.

[skine]

Is general jackass territory the place where they don't have quality broadband?

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Any complaints about this action or him losing his job are not important. They just need to #dealwithit

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only online only part of my 360 was the PDF for the reset glitch hack. My console has not touched an ethernet cable since I bought it. And I assure you, it reads games off it's hard drive perfectly well.

Re:Fantastic.

[gameboyhippo]

It is true that a lot of people hate jerks and thus are jerks towards jerks which makes them a jerk which others hate and so on and so forth. Sounds a bit too complicated. Lifes too short to live like that. (- This is usually the part where people accuse me of not living in the 'real world' when discussing more serious topics). Why not just admit he made a mistake, realize he got punished for it, and hope the best for him in his future endeavours?

Grace, mercy, and forgiveness are freeing. Not only that, but I hypothesize that if we were to deal with people like Orth in real life over lunch or something, we'd be far more gracious in our differing opinions. He wouldn't have been such a jerk and the Internet community wouldn't pile hate on him.

Re:Fantastic.

[Zephyn]

Sometimes a person can be both gracious and just. Nobody is perfect and will make mistakes in their career. So if we would not like to be publically humiliated, why call on Microsoft to publically humiliate Orth? So what if it's a PR disaster. Things happen.

If you're just upset about Microsoft's always on DRM, then buy a Wii U or PS4.

Therein lies the reason for the firing. Consider the timing here: It begins with a great deal of uncertainty and rumors regarding a possible 'always online' requirement for the upcoming generation of consoles. Sony comes out and states that they won't be implementing it, which turns all the speculation squarely at Microsoft. Microsoft remains silent on the subject, and then all of a sudden one of their employees shoots his mouth off with some highly scornful Twitter posts about gamers that are concerned about this issue.

The next thing you hear is the sound of thousands of pencils crossing "XBOX 720" off the list of desired consoles for this generation. And Microsoft knows this. That's why he got canned.

Microsoft's problem now is that they're still remaining silent on the issue even after the firing. That makes it look like they're firing him not because they disagree with what he said, but instead because he revealed/confirmed something that Microsoft would much rather keep under wraps. With all the negative PR that this whole mess is generating, wouldn't Microsoft want to publicly contradict what he said if it wasn't true?

Re:Fantastic.

[X0563511]

So you're saying that by building an application for x86, it's DRM because it won't run in a PPC?

Re:Fantastic.

[BoberFett]

Compiling is DRM? Stallman might be onto something...

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

But with cases like this, we don't want to be seen as giving respect and forgiveness, because there are others in the IT and gaming industries who are watching. We have to send a message that those who try to screw over their customers in the name of control, surveillance and profit will face consequences. Even if this whole thing was a mistake, we have to make it clear that mistakes of that sort must not keep happening.

Re:Fantastic.

[farble1670]

If Orth had been a rank-and-file developer, then firing him for these comments would have been overkill.

i work on a product that is drastically less consumer facing than xbox, and even i know not to make statements about unreleased products. in fact, i know not to say anything at all about my employer in public. i don't represent them.

For someone like this, generating good PR is actually supposed to be a part of their job

how do you know that? MSFT and any other large company has groups dedicated to communicating to the public. for anyone else, the message is keep your mouth shut.

Re:Fantastic.

[vux984]

Is general jackass territory the place where they don't have quality broadband?

Not based on my experience with multiplayer gaming.

Re:Fantastic.

[gameboyhippo]

He wasn't fired for "screwing the customer". He was fired for speaking out of turn. Big difference.

As far as making it clear that we will not support a product that is not customer centric, just don't buy the product. I won't be buying a 720 in the near future due to this and the lack of games I like to play. But I wouldn't wish harm on the human who made a gaffe online.

Re:Fantastic.

[Dorianny]

Some should inform him of where the food we eat come from!

Re:Fantastic.

[Anonymous Coward]

My guess is Wilson gets a pass because gaming press and gamers still suck Blizzard's dick.

Re:Fantastic.

[Sparton]

With all the negative PR that this whole mess is generating, wouldn't Microsoft want to publicly contradict what he said if it wasn't true?

But then anything they don't publicly contradict you'd know (or at least rightfully assume) is true. That's why companies don't want to comment on speculation or rumor; they have little to gain for positive news and much to lose for negative news.

Re:Fantastic.

[gorzek]

Consoles are a form of vendor lock-in, not DRM. DRM is done with the intended purpose of thwarting efforts to copy data or use it in any other way than the hardware/software designers dictate. Sony isn't making the PS4 to prevent you from playing games on the Wii U or Xbox.

I think the real reason MS would make an always-online console is all too mundane: it's easier to code a system that simply refuses to do anything when it's offline, than to write one that handles both "online" and "offline" modes. It simplifies game development, too, because if you (as a developer) want to use the online features, they're always there--you don't have to have a fallback for when they aren't, because the console's making sure that doesn't happen.

That said, making things easier for developers is hardly a good justification for screwing over users by placing unreasonable demands on them. I just don't think this is being done exclusively or even primarily as a DRM tactic, even though it has that as a side "benefit."

The only reason I don't think it's DRM is because I've been under the impression that piracy of 360/PS3 games is difficult and rare, and certainly not the huge problem it's been for PC games. Causing such a huge inconvenience to so many people for a virtually nonexistent problem is just bad business. Having an always-online console for other, "good" reasons may also be bad business, but not as egregiously stupid in terms of what motivated it.

Re:Fantastic.

[hairyfeet]

Uhhh...so don't buy games from their shitty live service? There, problem solved. I know several people who don't even have Internet and their X360 plays just fine, you stick in the disc and it goes which is why they bought a console instead of a PC.

But we'll see who is right, personally I'm predicting this will be another Windows 8 megabomb (if you haven't seen the figures PC sales went from going down 9% a year to 18% last year which most are blaming Win 8 for) but as I said it fits nicely into my theory that the ONLY time you see MSFT gain is when the sentence is preceded by "And then the other guy did something REALLY dumb" because barring a moron for a competitor MSFT is so full of PHBs and are so focused on Wall Street instead of making good products that they end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Re:Fantastic.

[jkauzlar]

Imagine you go into McDonald's and there's no onions on your hamburger. When you explain to the cashier that you'd like onions on your hamburger, the cashier says 'I think everybody should get a hamburger with no onions. deal with it.' Annoying, but not a big deal and the employee might even get fired or a stern warning over it.

Now, take that scenario and multiply it by tens of thousands of customers, and multiply the amount of each purchase by about 200 or 300 dollars.

Re:Fantastic.

[cayenne8]

It isn't like he said something racist, misogynistic, threatening, or even particularly offensive.

If he was not representing MS, this was a personal only twitter or forum account..done on his own time and dime, that he or anyone uttering something offensive to another person/race/sex should be subject to termination from their job?!?!?!

Sure, running around calling everyone nigger sluts is tasteless and offensive, but should a person lose their job if they express themselves how they wish as long as it is legal on their own private time and personal output channel?

Re:Fantastic.

[poetmatt]

What am I getting mixed up? The He is Orth, and MS made their own decision to not support Orth with his statements. Orth is the intellectually dishonest person.

So, no.

Re:Fantastic.

[poetmatt]

As much as MS has all this hate and/or are generally thought of as a company designed to take away everything of benefit to the consumer, they aren't that blatant. I highly doubt, in fact I am certain that a great amount of the company does not want this requirement. It's obvious someone pushed for it, but that doesn't mean that it's the company view. Just old executives who need to die off/quit as they are bringing down microsoft.

Apparently they've not learned how to hold executives accountable, clearly evidenced by Ballmer still being around years and years past his time.

Re:Fantastic.

[Creepy]

Jay said the Diablo 3 always on requirement was built in from the start because they initially planned the game as a MMO, not for DRM reasons. When the MMO requirement was dropped, the networking and infrastructure code was already done and it would have been a lot more work (and many months of delays) to pull it out. As a developer, I have seen similar decisions made for business reasons, including hiding features that are essentially finished rather than expose a very nasty bug to customers because it is too difficult to fix before a fixed release date (despite 99% of the feature working great and the bug easily avoidable with some training).

Re:Fantastic.

[VortexCortex]

putting your job title anywhere should never automatically mean that. you want official company comments, go to said company's twitter feed. end.of.story. i am so sick of corporate nonsense like this.

It's not the corporations it's the people. It doesn't matter how loudly you shout "These opinions are not those of my employer", the people will consider that those opinions do carry over into your work life, in meetings, where you're asked your opinion on such things. Idiot.

Re:Fantastic.

[VortexCortex]

In Stan Lee's immortal words, with great power there must always come great responsibility

With great power comes great current squared times resistance

With great power comes less resistance, currently...

Re:Fantastic.

[Nixoloco]

Oh how naive! Where have you been all last year ...

Counter-example: Blizzard's Diablo 3 Directory Jay Wilson

Sigh, I just started playing this game and reading the forums some. You are pretty spot on, but at least recently they have given in a little on some minor issues with the latest patch 1.0.8 coming out. I think some of the developers are pretty sympathetic.

Re:Fantastic.

[thereitis]

With all the public firings that have gone on, remind me, what's the benefit of having a twitter account again?

Pros: being able to tell millions of people what you're doing.

Cons: saying something stupid to millions of people and suffering the consequences.

Provocative comments should elicit provocative debates, and people should be allowed to change how they feel about a subject. It's not as if he godwin'd his twitter feed. As tweet-related firings ripple through the media, I can see people gravitating towards more watered-down statements and PR-speak, which is kind of unfortunate.

Re:Fantastic.

[TranquilVoid]

It's more like you're a cashier at McDonalds and a rowdy group at a couple of tables ask why the new McAwesome burger doesn't come with mayo. You explain that it was done this way for a variety of reasons - cost, balance of flavours, space in the burger - but they yell and chant about it continually, some go outside and hold up signs to passing traffic to complain. Eventually you get sick of it and say "Mayonnaise is your Grandma's ingredient, I wish none of our burgers used it. Deal with it."

Stretched analogy, but the internet is a tedious echo chamber where the loudest, most annoying people get amplified by news media. I too detest DRM, and especially always-on DRM, but it's refreshing to see a manager say what's he thinking rather than spouting vague placations. Wouldn't hire him for my (theoretical) company though.

Re:Fantastic.

[Alarash]

If he didn't want to get publicly humiliated maybe he shouldn't have posted publicly. He's stupid, and twice so.

Re:Fantastic.

[CodeHxr]

As a developer, I have seen similar decisions made for business reasons, including hiding features that are essentially finished rather than expose a very nasty bug to customers because it is too difficult to fix before a fixed release date

Ah, hot coffee, how we miss you.

Re:Fantastic.

[Gen_Music]

Yes. If Tim Cook called everyone nigger sluts. Hell if he called one person a nigger slut, he would lose his job hours after. regardless if it is disclaimed or not. Nobody wants to thing that Apple is run by racists, in fact nobody wants to think that any company is run by people who's opinions run counter to public opinion, so Mr Orth screwed himself by letting the cat out of the bag and affecting the company position in the eyes of PR.

Re:Fantastic.

[Gen_Music]

http://xkcd.com/643/

Re:Fantastic.

[Gen_Music]

No, he's saying that Always on DRM is to protect against hacking and emulation.

Re:Fantastic.

[Gen_Music]

Vendor lock-in is a form of DRM. Sony want you to buy the PS4 to get the PS4 exclusives. Playing a PS4 game on something made by someone else would be using it in a way they did not dictate. This is mainly because of the various pains they went through to achieve their level of encryption and by using a more expensive CPU instruction set to make it more or less incompatible with everything without low level emulation.

"DRM is done with the intended purpose of thwarting efforts to copy data or use it in any other way than the hardware/software designers dictate."

Re:Fantastic.

[UnknownSoldier]

Well at least Blizzard admits they fucked up D3 with the Auction House:
http://www.bluesnews.com/s/140325/jay-wilson-auctions-houses-really-hurt-diablo-iii

After a month when you're bored of D3 I recommend you check out (free!) Path of Exile. It is the true spiritual successor to Diablo 2. Also, if you haven't played Torchlight 2 give that one a go too.

At least that way you can decide which one is right for you because you'll have first hand experience. Would love to hear your feedback on why you prefer one over the other!

--
Only cowards use censorship.

Why not?

[mystikkman]

but either way it's not good news for Microsoft

An employee posting company related information without clearance, especially things like "deal with it", deserved to be reprimanded at the least.

Re:Why not?

[MickyTheIdiot]

Crediting sources who "wish to remain anonymous"...

For everyone but the person that leaked THIS story, of course...

Re:Why not?

[Xest]

That's what I thought, I don't see how "either way it's not good news for Microsoft". If the employee was incompetent because he caused harm to the company then getting rid of him is damn good news because it means he can't do it again.

I somewhat wonder if Microsoft have been having the always-on DRM debate internally and Adam Orth was in fact on the losing side of that internal discussion and took to Twitter to bitch about consumers who don't like always-on DRM simply because he lost the internal debate on the topic to the argument that consumers will fucking hate it.

I say this because I'd be surprised if Microsoft do go the always on DRM route, I don't think even MS is that stupid, but time will tell I guess.

Either way, good fucking riddance. This is one of those few things every once in a while Microsoft does that is absolutely right and that they absolutely shouldn't be faulted for. This guy was an idiot.

Re:Why not?

[MickyTheIdiot]

I say this because I'd be surprised if Microsoft do go the always on DRM route, I don't think even MS is that stupid, but time will tell I guess.

Stupid might not be the right word. "Being stuck inside the corporate bubble" but be better. "Arrogant" might be another.

Re:Why not?

[RogueyWon]

Indeed.

I think the other point that dropped out of the discussion in this particular case (though plenty of people have brought it up elsewhere) is that people don't so much fear always-online requirements because they're worried their net connect might blip out (though that's a perfectly fair concern), but rather because they can see the thin end of the wedge approaching and recognise always-online as a direct underpinning for blocks on used games and rentals.

MS may be getting a lot of pressure from game developers to implement those blocks, but to do so would be absolutely suicidal given customers have a choice to jump to an unrestricted PS4 instead.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect it's not so much the unauthorized info about always-on internet xbox that forced him to resign, but more about his response to one twitter who pointed out that certain parts of the country like Janesville, WI or Blackburg, VA don't have super reliable internet availability in contrast to cities that Orth resides, or formerly resided in, like Seattle, San Francisco or LA: "@manveerheir Why on earth would I live there?"

Re:Why not?

[Vanderhoth]

Or since the next generation of consoles are x86 architecture anyway, just jump back to PC gaming. The whole reason for using the standard x86 is so developers can more easily port games between consoles and PCs. Why bother with a five to eight hundred dollar console with very few exclusive games that's going to allow MS or Sony to control your gaming library, username and passwords (Which they don't protect properly) and how and when you can you play, when you can get a PC that's going to be twice as good (spec wise), upgradeable as needed for a better experience, will have the same titles and more, allows you to do more than the console will ever allow (media server, indi development, emulator, video player, and much more) without jail breaking/hacking it and when all else fails after buying a game with a shitty DRM will allow you to download a working copy so you can play a game you paid for (Not that I've ever done that, but it's an option)?

My personal opinion is the next generation of consoles is dead in the water. I only have a linux machine at home and with the availability of Steam and indi games, I've only turned my PS3 on in the last 10 months so my 2 year old could watch the Care Bears movie, which doesn't seem to be available on Netflix (build into my TV). I was surprised the PS3 even worked, it's one of the original consoles that had the OtherOS Feature. I was sure Sony would have bricked it by now in some update, which I don't have to worry about them doing on my PC.

Re:Why not?

[Somebody Is Using My]

The Playstation 4 is only "unrestricted" in so much that Sony is not making always-on DRM a requirement for games to play on their system (at least, right now; Sony has a habit of changing their minds about stuff like this). The Playstation 4 will, however, allow always-online DRM and you can bet that the publishers will be making use of it just as readily as they do on the PC (and are moving as far forwards with as they can on the consoles).

I bet there's a team of accountants in Sony somewhere crunching numbers hard trying to figure out how much money the ability to resell games earns them (not directly of course, but the ability to resell games is a valued feature to many customers) and how much it would cost them to cut out retailers like Gamestop (who survive on resales). If they feel the PS4 will be profitable and successful without that feature, you can bet it will be dropped because the publishers - and retailers like Amazon or Walmart - prefer not having to compete with used products.

Re:Why not?

[meowgoesthecat]

Why not? This is slashdot. That's why.

Microsoft could give every slashdotter a million dollars and everyone would complain because it wasn't in cash.

Re:Why not?

[gstoddart]

He made a valid point. Living in places without good internet access is like choosing to eat at a restaurant with bad food.

Oh, horseshit. People have all sorts of reasons for living in rural areas (cost of living, lower crime, because they want to, because that's where their job is). Are you suggesting everyone should move out of every rural area for the cities and leave the rest deserted just so they can have access to the internet?

The internet isn't the be all and end all of the world, and lots of people still want to be able to play games without the need for an internet connection.

My XBox no longer connects to the network, because once they started putting ads into both the home screen and the games they crossed the line into "absolutely not". I don't play games on-line, I have no interest in playing games on-line, and it's none of their fscking business when I play, what games I play, or for how long. And I'm certainly not giving them a platform to show me ads.

Always-on internet and DRM is meant to give them control over the consumer, as well as making sure to get some extra revenue from ads, and maybe garner information about your gaming habits.

Being required to do this is more like choosing to eat at a restaurant which serves bad food, because you're being told "eat shit, if you want to play you have no choice".

Well, there is a choice, and that's to simply not buy the next XBox. If they require always-on internet, that's the choice I'll be exercising.

Re:Why not?

[h4rr4r]

No, I am suggesting if internet access is important to you, you should select a location that can provide that. If it not important to you than the 720 is not likely to be either.

I have a PS3 if they had advertising on the home screen or charged a monthly fee to use an unrelated service, netflix, I would have sold it already.

Not buying the 720 is just like not moving to a place without reliable internet access. Both are voting with your dollars for the values you hold.

Re:Why not?

[RivenAleem]

I'm waiting for EA/MS or others to start offering a subscription service a la Netflix or more accurately a Cable TV company, where you pay a sub to them to get their entire catalogue.

Basic packages give access to older games, while you can get an addon for EA Sports, an addon for EA Premium and an addon for EA DLC 'channels'.

Would be just like them. That way you never get to own the games, or sell them on. And if you stop subscribing, then no games access for you!

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid might not be the right word. "Being stuck inside the corporate bubble" but be better. "Arrogant" might be another.

XBOX 720 may be Microsoft's Edsel.

Re:Why not?

[B33rNinj4]

Exactly. I'm sorry he was let go, but he really should have known better.

Re:Why not?

[gstoddart]

And if the attitude is that "well, if you haven't got a decent internet connection and are willing to leave it on for is, we don't give a shit about your business" then the sooner people say "fine, fuck you" the better.

This is just more corporate ass-hattery saying they don't actually give a damn about their customers, and are willing to put their developers and marketing interests ahead of the customer.

Since Microsoft is discovering people apparently interested in Windows 8, they can't exactly afford to be hastening the same decision on their gaming platform. If they want to take their customers for granted, they might find out their customers are willing to leave.

Re:Why not?

[h4rr4r]

Sure, but they should be free to do that. If you ever thought MS was interested in what customers wanted you were incredibly naive.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhhh, you'll make Windows 8 jealous.

Re:Why not?

[Your.Master]

Honestly? I'm betting it's mostly the net outages (and time spent away from the Internet in general).

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, for me, one of the biggest concerns about always on is the ability to play games 30 years from now. I look at all the games from over the last 30 years that I'm still playing, and I would hate it if they were taken away from me. Thanks to dosbox and GOG it is super easy to keep going with many of these games, and my Zelda and SMB3 carts still work, and if they didn't, there is always emulation. My only requirement is that my ability to play my games is not at the whim of the company I bought them from. Multi is a non-issue for me, as I can only remember ever playing Quake 2 and Heretic 2 multi with any consistency.

Re:Why not?

[Dorkmaster Flek]

The Playstation 4 is only "unrestricted" in so much that Sony is not making always-on DRM a requirement for games to play on their system (at least, right now; Sony has a habit of changing their minds about stuff like this). The Playstation 4 will, however, allow always-online DRM and you can bet that the publishers will be making use of it just as readily as they do on the PC (and are moving as far forwards with as they can on the consoles).

So? The PC "allows" always-online DRM because it "allows" publishers to do whatever they want. The PS4 is no different in that regard. I'd rather have an open platform and simple vote with my wallet not to buy games that have that crap.

Re:Why not?

[Wookact]

I want mine in bitcoins you insensitive clod.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

You say unrestricted PS4 like they haven't been toying with putting chips on game discs that can tell which machine it's been used on. They were kind enough to remove that feature but it's not like they didn't toy with the issue. This could be the same case with the new xbox, they haven't released the specs yet which probably means they haven't locked down what they are doing yet. That means they could be having this internal debate like PS did before they decided to drop it.

Pros:
Exclusives - As a developer if you can be garenteed that your games won't be pirated you might consider putting your game out for that one system. Removing the possibility of piracy and even used games is huge. Loss in sales because people will likely buy less xbox consoles might not factor in if the used market it gone and the pirates have a hard time with it(never saying they can't crack it)

Cons:
Rural players - they ain't buying your shit box
privacy advocates - they ain't buying your spyware
people who buy used games - aren't touching it, even if at launch this isn't a feature it could be at any time.
Hardcore Gamers - Aren't going to be buying a system where when it dies it's either a pain to transfer games to a new console or impossible.(some will have both)

seems like a lot of cons compared to pro's well that one pro is huge. You get a couple major publishers on board with exclusives and people will buy your console regardless. The climate isn't there yet, in a few years when everything is online anyways and rural areas are booming with broadband it might be feasible. Hopefully legislation in areas will prevent locking games to one console by then. If Microsoft goes with always on DRM and Sony has nothing similar that's a big gamble that you can get enough AAA exclusives to draw gamers in.

Re:Why not?

[BillCable]

Sony made the right decision here. If a game publisher wants to cripple their games with always-on DRM they should have that right. And the publisher will be punished through customer outrage and lousy sales. But it's all on the publisher - their games, their risk. If the PS4 gives them the option, as rumored, any game publisher is free not to utilize it.

Microsoft, OTOH, is mandating this for all games. Publishers reportedly can't opt out. The only way games can voice an opposition in this case is to not buy the console at all. Given the current backlash, I expect that's exactly what will happen.

Re:Why not?

[10101001 10101001]

The funny thing is, your comment just gave me a very clear idea. Microsoft really should have, instead of wasting all the time and energy into making Windows 8 and following the tablet crowd, tried to better integrate MCE as a core part of Windows and pushed developers for more 10 foot UIs--which Metro might have been good for coupled with kinetics for gesturing (emphasis on the might, since AFAIK, the issue is really MS's implementation, anyways). But, I'd guess that idea was put off because it might compete with the current/next XBox and it'd cut into the MCE specialty sales. Of course, if Windows 8/RT had really taken off, it'd inherently be competing with Windows Phone--just as Android and iOS span the gambit of portable handheld phone/entertainment devices; then again, considering MS's lack of success in the smartphone space, I don't think they'd see that as a failure to have to retire the Windows Phone line.

And as for competition with the XBox, as you pointed out, the PC is just a different beast. The advantages of single-spec, locked down architecture for a game console are the exact opposite advantages of a multi-spec, very open architecture of a PC. So, I'd say it's more a waste than anything. That's especially true given how people are much more willing to plop a lot of money down for a PC/all-in-one-media-center than a tablet, especially once you factor in things like the cost of a good size TV or the trend for ever cheaper tablets.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

He made a valid point. Living in places without good internet access is like choosing to eat at a restaurant with bad food. It sends the message that you find that acceptable in a community. Sure for children it might not be their choice, but this is the message their parents are sending.

Well, this situation is a bit more analogous to a couple trying to eat at a restaurant, but they won't serve them any food (good or bad) unless they each have a smartphone and they agree to let the restaurant use their wireless hotspots for whatever the restaurant management wants while the couple is in the restaurant. Oh, and don't forget that the couple already agreed to this by walking in the door to read the fine print posted on the back wall of the restaurant.

One function has absolutely nothing to do with the other, and no benefit accrues to the prospective diner by allowing the restaurant to rape their data plan like that. Oh, they may have some additional menu choices available as a result, but they originally came in for the standard menu, and they just want to have a nice peaceful meal together. And no, they don't want to be 'virtually' sharing their meal with a thousand random strangers across the world, either. Just food. Just some laughs. Just quiet enjoyment of time spent together, face to face.

Who would actually choose to go to such a restaurant?

Re:Why not?

[SillyHamster]

Sure, but they should be free to do that. If you ever thought MS was interested in what customers wanted you were incredibly naive.

No one's suggesting they aren't free to do that. Vocal players (eg a part of their market audience) are just telling them what they are willing to spend money on.

They can ignore free feedback it at their own peril.

Re:Why not?

[Somebody Is Using My]

Nonetheless, the public perception - perhaps encouraged by Sony - is that customers will be able to resell Playstation 4 games unrestrictedly, whereas on the XBoxNewest, used game sales will be impossible. Therefore, everyone should buy the PS4 and avoid Microsoft's latest offering as the PS4 is the only viable alternative if you are interested in selling your old game.

But the likely reality is that the publishers will limit used game sales regardless of the platform so long as they can do so, and this sort of restriction will be possible on the PS4. Thus, customers will get screwed regardless of what platform they chose. If Sony were truly interested in protecting their customers, they would create a policy that the publishers /can't/ require online registration to lock a game to a particular user: they pointedly are /not/ doing so. Sony is creating a false impression to its customer base about the expected reality by trying to wiggle out of the responsibility: "it's not /us/ that's doing this, it's the publishers!", even though they are in the unique position of stopping it from happening.

And mark my words, the publishers will take advantage of these new features, whether they are built into the hardware - as with XBoxNextGen - or merely aided by policy and functionality already in the machine, as with the PS4 (on a related note, there's nothing to stop XBox360+1 game publishers from allowing their games to be re-registered to a new XBox if re-sold but I wouldn't hold my breath). They know that their customers, as a general rule, do not care enough about this issue at purchase time, nor do they full understand the implications of what they are giving up. And that their slick advertising campaign will so dazzle them with the new shiny that any niggling doubts will be drowned out with fast talking and impressive graphics.

The alternative is not simply to chose Playstation 4 over XBoxNext. The alternative is to make it clear to console developers and publishers that this sort of behavior is not welcome. Similarly, the purpose of my original objection was not to claim superiority of any one platform over the other (anyway, we all know hardware peaked with the Amiga, right, so what's the point in arguing any further over these johnny-come-latelies?) but to simply point out that none of the platforms are really offering the freedom-to-resell that we have come to expect from earlier consoles, no matter how they are arranging this restruction. The PS4 may be the lesser of evils, but it is still evil.

Plus, Sony does not have a good record in this area so any promises made regarding this topic should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

Re:Why not?

[Dorkmaster Flek]

Oh I'm not disagreeing that publishers will engage in this. They absolutely will. But just like today, it's up to the consumer to find out if the game they're looking to buy used has this crap in it, and vote with their wallet.

Re:Why not?

[lgw]

I'm not sure anyone but us /. nerds cares about always-on DRM - lets look at these points.

Rural players - they ain't buying your shit box

Even rural players have internet these days: the problem is bandwidth, not connectivity. That being said, you could easily do things wrong and have a console that requires a high bandwidth always-on connection. That would get ugly.

privacy advocates - they ain't buying your spyware

Few enough people care about privacy issues in the first place. This sounds like a heck of a reach: enough people caring about the privacy of what games they play? When services that advertise what game you're playing so that you can find folks to play with grew by player demand?

people who buy used games - aren't touching it, even if at launch this isn't a feature it could be at any time.

Used games are already dead, IMO. The future is Steam-sale-style discounts instead. Same prices for the buyer, but the studio gets the money. What remains to be seen is how this will affect people who sell used games.

Hardcore Gamers - Aren't going to be buying a system where when it dies it's either a pain to transfer games to a new console or impossible.(some will have both)

I'll just scoff at anyone who calls himself a "hardcore gamer" on a console and move on.

I think the problem here really was "being rude to customers".

Re:Why not?

[thaylin]

Some have been doing that for ears, aka the Sony Station Pass

Re:Why not?

[SirGarlon]

I have tried it both ways and I am *never* going back to PC gaming. PC games are always buggy. Console games just work.

And if you think PC games are free of odious DRM, then you don't understand what Steam really is.

Re:Why not?

[Mr. No Skills]

Does someone risk employment discipline when commenting publicly about their employer - of course. Common sense. Worth firing? Not sure, there may be other history at play that we wouldn't know about.

What is hard to find is an explanation of why "always on" is good or bad (pros and cons) that triggered this issue. I watched the IGN video (a great example about what's bad about anyone being able to report news on-line; what a slog waiting for mostly-amatuers to get to the point), and I can't figure out what XBox owners don't like about this fixed-to-the-TV device being plugged into the wall. Seems it evens out content downloads and other software related patching. Is it just the hassle of some complicated reset process if its offline from a power outage?

By the way - thanks for the non-anonymous posting. This thread seems to be loaded with Acs and I can't filter them out.

Re:Why not?

[futuresheep]

I know people that live 15 miles from the Microsoft Campus. They have zero access to land based internet, it's Satellite only for them. Not exactly Janesville, WI or Blacksburg, VA.

Re:Why not?

[Vanderhoth]

Console games just work.

There were tons of bugs reported for both Dragon Age and Skyrim for XBox 360. While I'll give you that consoles seem to have fewer bugs than PC games I'm fairly certain, at least in recent history, it's because games are being developed to run on consoles then crappy ports are made to run the games on PCs. Since, as I said, both the Xbox 720 and PS4 are using the x86 architecture, it should be primary the same code for all three systems. So, when there is a bug it'll probably show up on all the systems, I guess that'll depend on the Dev packages MS/Sony put out for their respective systems.

And if you think PC games are free of odious DRM, then you don't understand what Steam really is.

I fully understand what Steam really is. It does have some drawbacks, but I've never hand an issue with it. I have three systems in home for gaming, all Linux based, mainly so my wife and I can play Civ II, Warcraft II and Starcraft. I can pick any system up at anytime and run steam in a VM for my windows games and now nativity in Linux for the games I've recently started purchasing. I know a lot of people disagree with me on this, but as far as I'm concerned the cheap games I can get on sale and ability to install on any machine in my house or at my in-laws/brothers/sisters/fathers place significantly out weighs the Steam DRM. If I have a game pre-installed I can still play on my laptop in off-line mode when the power's out or when I go to sea, which is where I was just last month for three weeks. So as I said I have no problem with Steam.

I'm also of the opinion that if there's going to be a DRM or a glitch between me and a game I've purchased I'd rather it be on a PC where I can "work around" the issue using techniques that could most likely get you banned from XBL or PSN, which would mean the loss of any games or content you've bought through those services.

I do fully understand the moving target issue with developing for PCs and that can be a challenge for many developers, but it's still a heck of a lot easier for me as a consumer.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

And seriously, Sony is so upstanding and reliable to do what the consumer wants, we should just trust that they aren't (or didn't) going the DRM always on route? Maybe the flak from this was a great PR move to say they weren't...but when units start coming off the line, we'll see which way they really went. knows that we can trust any of them to tell the truth the first or second time.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, and I c/an spend equivalent amounts of money (more most likely) on a pc to play pc games...and then pay the same title prices as consoles at $50 or $60 per. I will take the smaller investment console and use Gamefly at 1/3 the cost per month of a new game and play as many as I want. Oh yeah, and in six months or a year, I won't have to buy a new video card or sound card or more RAM, or change pc configurations to play the latest Crysis game...PC gaming is dead to me - but please enjoy it as you want. Building pc's to meeting gaming needs is a losing arms race.

Re:Why not?

[Dahamma]

Not only that, but have you SEEN what the "Xbox creative directors" have done to the Xbox 360 Dash lately? It's a half-assed Metro-based design hamstrung by the hardware limitations of Kinect.

Not only was he bad for the company's image, he couldn't have been a very good creative director anyway.

Re:Why not?

[Belial6]

That would be www.gametap.com. $80 a year and you get to play any of the 844 games they have in their catalog. It is actually a pretty decent deal since 1 account works for 6 users. They are completely upfront about the fact that you are renting the games though. Unlike all the companies that 'sell' software with online DRM. Oh, and GameFly has an all you can eat PC game rental included with their subscriptions too.

Re:Why not?

[hexagonc]

The bigger problem for me, much bigger than even used games, is that with an always on connection, the game companies and Microsoft have complete control over your console. It is not just yours -- not exclusively, anyway -- but rather is shared between you and the game companies. If you want to run the games with a lower patch level because you don't like the latest gameplay tweaks, you can't do that anymore. If the latest patch does something you don't like, game companies can forcefully upgrade you to it because, well, they can. If you deny them access by disconnecting the console, then they deny you access to the game. This is true regardless of DRM. If Microsoft wants to inject ads on the settings screens, then that's tough shit, they can do whatever they want because it's their console; you only use it with their approval.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am confused. How are you posting your comment without using the internet?

Re:Why not?

[Vanderhoth]

You're a little behind the times. Having to upgrade your computer every six months to a year is as mythical as Linux only being usable by geeks. I haven't had to upgrade the video card in any of my gaming machines, which are all laptops anyway, in quite awhile. I believe the main reason is game developers are mainly developing for consoles so they're not always pushing the envelope like they use to. I guess playing to the lowest common denominator, out of date before they're even released consoles, has some benefits for PC gamer. I just bought a new laptop from System 76 six months ago because I wanted something shiny and new, but I still use my four year old HP laptop running Linux Mint to play all the games I've bought on Steam and GOG. Aside from games though, I can use my four year old $800 HP for a ton more than my seven year old PS3, which I also paid $800 for.

Re:Why not?

[vux984]

The funny thing is, your comment just gave me a very clear idea. Microsoft really should have, instead of wasting all the time and energy into making Windows 8 and following the tablet crowd, tried to better integrate MCE as a core part of Windows and pushed developers for more 10 foot UIs--which Metro might have been good for coupled with kinetics for gesturing (emphasis on the might, since AFAIK, the issue is really MS's implementation, anyways).

I've got Win 8 on my HTPC, and it's actually quite solid as a 10 foot UI. The netflix metro app is pretty good.

I REALLY could not care less for kinect gesturing for control, but a good couch pointing device would be a godsend.

I currently use an Apple Magic Trackpad and Apple bluetooth keyboard with it, along with a harmony one remote and a wireless xbox controller for games. The magic trackpad is good, but not as supported as it could be.

I haven't tried using the xbox controller as a mouse, I know it can be done... a project for the weekend to fool around with.

Steam BigPicture was a welcome release. Windows 8's larger DPI settings even make the desktop usable at 10 feet, but there's the occasional software out there that pukes when the dpi is set to anything but standard... Amnesia: Dark Descent (or whatever its called) was the last title that I tried using that failed with higher DPI settings.

Re:Why not?

[dlingman]

And how is that supposed to work out for the average teenage gamer? Who lives at home, in a place his parents chose to live?

Re:Why not?

[mjwalshe]

Well better hope they don't find out who mini microsoft is then.

Re:Why not?

[dadelbunts]

Out of all things ever. The thought of linux machines right now in this moment killing big consoles made me laugh out loud literally. Maybe in 5-10 years when they have a good selection of games.

Re:Why not?

[TWiTfan]

Oh, and GameFly has an all you can eat PC game rental included with their subscriptions too.

Just out of curiosity I went over there to call your bluff. First game I searched for:

Rent Bioshock Infinite for Xbox 360
Rent Bioshock Infinite for PS3
Buy Bioshock Infinite for PC

Looks like the good folks at 2K games didn't get your memo.

Re:Why not?

[Vanderhoth]

The truth is, big consoles are killing themselves. Smaller indi-consoles running Linux variations are just stepping up to fill the void, but you're right it's going to be at least 5 to 10 years before there's a really decent selection of games for them.

Re:Why not?

[david_thornley]

I don't think even MS is that stupid, but time will tell I guess.

Windows 8.

I rest my case.

Re:Why not?

[dadelbunts]

They arent tho. What the Ouya? Yeah right. Just like consoles never killed pc gaming even tho it was supposed to happen countless times, small android consoles wont kill the big boys. The void that they fill isnt what brings in the big money for consoles. The only territory they are going into is the wii market segment, which caters to more casual games. There will always be demand for high horsepower machines and AAA titles, be it in PC or console form.

Re:Why not?

[Kjella]

And if the attitude is that "well, if you haven't got a decent internet connection and are willing to leave it on for is, we don't give a shit about your business" then the sooner people say "fine, fuck you" the better. (...) If they want to take their customers for granted, they might find out their customers are willing to leave.

I see an "invisible hand of the free market" argument coming, but leave for where? This is an oligopoly... If Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Valve want you to be always on, you're either doing it or you're not playing any AAA games. You don't like HDCP in your machine? Hope you don't have anything with an HDMI, DP or modern DVI port. And if you're still waiting for your DVD and BluRay boycott to work, don't hold your breath. Of course everything the big boys make is junk for the unwashed masses and you should just rid you of it all and go indie, right. Not going to happen and good for you but some of us actually like what comes out of the "mainstream" from time to time, you're just doing ideological grandstanding rather than it actually being crap just like RMS wouldn't touch Photoshop with a ten foot pole despite being the industry standard.

I don't know if you've noticed the obvious trend but more and more companies now but logic on the server just to tie you to it, like the obvious lies with SimCity. Also Diablo III is another good example, and when did you last see a game with LAN support without hooking up to the mothership? With mobile and wireless it's going to become less and less plausible that you couldn't possibly manage to sign in, given the vast success of purely online games like MMORPGs there's no doubt there's a critical mass of gamers who could and probably would sign in for their gaming session. They're giving you lip service but you probably got more of a glimpse of the industry attitude than intended, because their actions are pretty much 100% in line with what he said. Both with carrot and stick they want you to go online.

Re:Why not?

[Belial6]

Yes, the library of PC games is not every single game every made. We unfortunatly don't have manditory licensing for games the way we do for music on the radio. That doesn't mean they don't have an all you can eat PC game rental. http://www.gamefly.com/download-games/browse/?pf=1100&cat=UnlimitedPlay#.UWeeQMrzlEY Bioshock Infinite may not be for rent on the PC yet, but the very first game shown for me is Bioshock.

Re:Why not?

[Xest]

Always-on refers to need a constant connection to the internet when in use, not that the console should be always switched on.

People tend not to like this because it a) can rack up their bandwidth bill even though all they're doing is playing a single player game, b) Mean their bandwidth is being used up by ads they just don't want to see and that may ruin the immersion in the game, c) Means that if their connection fails even temporarily for a moment they may be kicked out of the game and lose all their progress, d) That if they don't have an internet connection, or a fast enough connection, such as on the move in an RV, they can't even play the single player games they've purchased, e) Everything you do is being monitored for the purposes of advertising, if you have a camera like Kinect or the Sony Eye camera then they may even be data mining image data of you for advertising purposes etc. (i.e. what can of drink are you holding and drinking) or listening.

People shouldn't be prevented from playing games they've legally purchased just because they don't have an internet connection or whatever and shouldn't have to fear being spied on in their own living room just because companies are paranoid you're pirating their software and want to monetise you to the extreme by measuring every aspect of your lives and filling everything you do on your console with live streamed ads. Always on means your console's microphone could listen for you saying "I'm hungry" and then flash up a Dominos pizza advert for example. This is what they want to do, but it's way too intrusive - if all you want is to play games, you should be able to do that without becoming a product sold to advertisers and without being interrupted and losing your progress because the company didn't trust you to have a legit copy for the short period that your connection went down.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's DRM Don't think of it as the thin end of the wedge but as the thin end of the wedgie

get rid of the people who messed the win 8 ui as w

[Anonymous Coward]

get rid of the people who messed the win 8 ui as well!

Talking of ads ...

[magic maverick]

I'm going off topic here, but I want to make a complaint. /. has gone down hill since being bought by Dice. In the old days /. would make it clear if there was some relationship between /. a site it linked to (e.g. "Slashdot and SourceForge are both part of OSDN"). However, now this doesn't happen any more. And it should. Not only that, if a submitter is related to Dice or to /., it should be made clear. And if you are only linking to an article on /. (e.g. in the ridiculous BI or SlashCloud sections) it should also be made clear.

Now mod me down (I shall become more powerful than you can imagine).

Re:Talking of ads ...

[Anonymous Coward]

/. has gone down hill since being bought by Dice.

Once Dice.com instituted an "always on" Internet connection policy to read Slashdot, it became nearly impossible for me to read. It's become particularly hard since I lost my job and can no longer browse and troll Twitter from work.

Re:Talking of ads ...

[magic maverick]

Why do anon cowards make these demands but then provide no method of means of complying? Maybe if you provided a location and a method of contacting you, I could comply. But simply demanding something in the fashion you have is just silly.
You should write it something like:

shut up and suck my dick. you can come to my place at any time after 9pm, im at 1600 pennsylvania ave nw washington dc.

Then, assuming I could make it to Washington DC, I could, if I was interested, come around and knock on your door. If I liked your looks, and you didn't smell, and your place was not to messy, and you offered me a decent drink, etc., I might well, "shut up and suck your dick". But you know, just making random demands on the Internet isn't enough. You've got to put effort into it.

Re:Talking of ads ...

[OakDragon]

/. has gone down hill since being bought by Dice.

Once Dice.com instituted an "always on" Internet connection policy to read Slashdot, it became nearly impossible for me to read. It's become particularly hard since I lost my job and can no longer browse and troll Twitter from work.

Deal with it.

Re:Talking of ads ...

[NatasRevol]

It's all Google's fault. Ever since they shut down Gears, you can't read ANYthing offline.

Re:Talking of ads ...

[Isaac Remuant]

fun fact, I save slashdot pages and read them later (offline). So your analogy/joke is flawed.

Re:Talking of ads ...

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFY...be really awkward if you approached the wrong person.

shut up and suck my dick. you can come to my place at any time after 9pm, im at 1600 pennsylvania ave nw washington dc. Ask for Michelle.

Re:Talking of ads ...

[SuiteSisterMary]

I remember doing that on my palm pilot. Can't remember the name of the software, though.

That said, I've had 'always on' Internet since, like, 1998 or something. It's not *that* outlandish an idea in this day and age, though I also think the Internet has taken the vague rumour and ran like mad with it.

How we dealt with it

[Anonymous Coward]

Was not what he had in mind. It didn't occur to him that PO'ed gamers can deal with things by getting people fired, he just wanted us to suck it up and suffer.

The Question is:

[Nyder]

How does MS feel about an always on Internet Requirement for all games on the Xbox? Obviously the customers don't like it, but does MS care what it's customers want?

Re:The Question is:

[Zimluura]

I think it's more of a "What does MS think they can get away with?" question. If MS does the dreaded online only DRM, then hopefully Sony won't do it and this next fight will play out like ps2 v xbox1.

Of course, if the two companies have colluded on the matter the console space may get very unpleasant.

Re:The Question is:

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8 might give you your answer, there.

Re:The Question is:

[JDG1980]

Obviously the customers don't like it, but does MS care what it's customers want?

If they did, they wouldn't have released Windows 8.

Re:The Question is:

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's more of a "What does MS think they can get away with?" question. If MS does the dreaded online only DRM, then hopefully Sony won't do it and this next fight will play out like ps2 v xbox1.

Of course, if the two companies have colluded on the matter the console space may get very unpleasant.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think both Sony and MS will push their requirements over the edge of what consumers want or not. Why? Because I believe that those that actually complain about what they are doing, is a low percentage of the actual user base that buys their products, so they will get away with it. Even people that might boycott their devices, will end up breaking down and get one in the long run. Mainly because their friends or gaming buddies went ahead and got one and pushing them to play with them. As consumers we have lost the battle long ago.

Re:The Question is:

[TWiTfan]

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that one of the the reasons MS pushed the Xbox announcement back to May instead of April was because of this controversy, or to learn that there is a serious internal debate going on right now there over whether they should really go forward with the always-on requirement (their original plan) or to abandon it in light of this controversy and Sony's distancing themselves from the requirement on the PS4.

Re:The Question is:

[thewolfkin]

see also: the number of people who actually went out and bought new 360s when the ones they owned broke a lot of gamers spend a brick of money man. If my PS3 died I'd cry for months because even at the deflated prices I'm not sure I could buy one until next year. Broke Phi Broke

Re:The Question is:

[White Flame]

I'm not sure they can back out at this point. The relationships with publishers in getting exclusives and launch titles hinges on obligations like this. Remember, it's the publishers who are demanding these sorts of DRM measures more than any console manufacturer themselves, so I don't think MS could pull something so important to that relationship when the wheels are already in motion.

Re:The Question is:

[TWiTfan]

May 21st should be an interesting day for console gamers.

I don't see the problem

[slashmydots]

I don't see the problem with a job that requires you to be always hired :-P

If new Xbox requires always on internet connection

[Spy Handler]

I'm not buying that shit. Neither should you.

and here ive been

[nimbius]

ranting and bitching about Steve Ballmer for almost a decade with no results. Turns out the correct method is twitter?

Re:and here ive been

[Anonymous Coward]

Thing is I think Steve is probably a probably a very effective middle manager (you sometimes need grumpy people running the show). The problem is he has shown he is a very ineffective CEO (where you need people willing to ungrumpy the managers).

XBox may now be a decent revenue stream but for nearly 8-10 years it lost money (hemorrhage would be a better word for it). It was not until Halo 2 (a game) that the division broke even. The WinCE thing was just mishandled. Win8 was shoved at the end user with a 'take or leave it'. MS was much better when it was a competitor instead of a monolith. A good CEO would have boot stomped some of the shenanigans going on.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Chrisq]

I'm not buying that shit. Neither should you.

You obviously don't have kids saying "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
....
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "oh fuck it! I'll get one for your birthday".......

Thanks for the link.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you'd prefer your news without obnoxious auto-playing video ads (with sound!), IGN reports Orth's departure, too.

Holy hell, the editors did some editing! Bravo!

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Sponge Bath]

Dad: Here kid, I got you a Ouya!
Kid: Waaaaahhhh!

Figured this was coming

[theurge14]

I'll be the first to admit I enjoy a bit of give and take with snarky comments on the Internet, but for a person in his position I though his condescending Twitter comments regarding people who dare to live in places such as Wisconsin or Virginia were a bit shocking in their arrogance. I can't say I'm surprised at all at Microsoft letting him go.

Re:Figured this was coming

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a former employee of Microsoft (left 5+ years ago) I am EXTREMELY surprised that he was shown the door. I've seen many people at that level (director and higher) screw up worse than he did and suffer no consequences whatsoever (and in quite a few cases said screwups were followed by a promotion).

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Dancindan84]

Except the problem for MS isn't parents who will say, "No." It's parents who will say, "No. We're getting a PS4 instead because it has 99% of the same games and doesn't have absurd DRM requirements."

Advice Orth

[Anonymous Coward]

Lost your job? Deal with it.

Re:Advice Orth

[kungfugleek]

And just when my mod points expired....

Additional tweets

[Anonymous Coward]

A previous IGN article has archived some extra tweets Adam made:

"Those people should definitely get with the times and get the internet. It's awesome."
"Sorry for expressing my personal opinion about what I want from the electronic devices that I pay for on Twitter. Jesus."
"The mobile reception in the area I live in is spotty and unrealiable. I will not buy a mobile phone."
"Sometimes the electricity goes out. I will not purchase a vacuum cleaner."

Re:Additional tweets

[nitehawk214]

So not an isolated event, either. The guy is just a jackass and deserves to get the boot.

Re:Additional tweets

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sorry for expressing my personal opinion about what I want from the electronic devices that I pay for on Twitter. Jesus."

Response: So YOU buy the console for me, then.

Totally called it

[Anonymous Coward]

Always on:
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tpx13/

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why your kids will grow up to value nothing. More spoiled consumer whores in the world, hooray!

Other comments were insulting

[EMG at MU]

The comments cited by TFA weren't the problem in my opinion. He has a unpopular viewpoint on a subject that a lot of his former employer's customer base feels strongly about but the other comments basically insulting people who don't live in large metro areas are the firing offence to me.

I can't find the quotation so this is from memory but someone responded to his tweet by saying "sometimes the internet is spotty in other areas of the country like Kansas and that's why always on would suck" and Orth responded "why would anyone live there". That's pretty much a big fuck you to a large part of the country. Not a wise move to disparage millions of potential customers. I think that comment and the attitude it conveys is a bigger problem than him stating his opinion about "always on".

Re:Other comments were insulting

[Anonymous Coward]

He claimed he "didn't get" or "didn't understand" what the problem was. Being unable, or more likely "unwilling", to put yourself in your customers' shoes means you are an incompetent, or more likely a "jerkwad", executive.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Jeslijar]

I'd buy it because I pretty much just use it for online gaming. I will admit of the four or five people i've met who aren't into gaming heavily but still own an xbox 360, none of them have connected their xbox to the internet. They just want to play games on it like an atari, nintendo or playstation. They don't care about a new social UI, they don't care about DLC. They just wanted something they can have an hour or two diversion on - they don't live their lives gaming. Something simple that they don't have to think about.

I can see where the always-on side appeals to businesses though. If the xbox 360 required an internet connection to function - i'm sure they would have found out a way to hook it up. Xbox probably would have made money on them too once they realized there was a marketplace with movies, games and other distractions. If the original console had a wireless nic, i'm sure the people I know would have set it up since they all have a wireless network.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

parenting fail

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

Obligatory Simpsons clip

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Sony is somehow better? Removing functionality, backward compatibility, being more expensive, root-kits, etc? How hasn't Sony fucked up in this generation of consoles?

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[legioxi]

It might not have the same manufacturer enforced DRM but Sony's wording implied it could be publisher enforced. Doesn't sound like a slam dunk win for Sony. I think both will end up with DRM in the coming generation.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

The internet being out is when I'm most likely to *really* want to play xbox.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Chrisq]

Obligatory Simpsons clip

Yes that's what I was thinking of!

I guess he can go to work for Electronic Arts

[voss]

They apparently love asshats like him especially with Simcity

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

Here kid, I got you an Occulus Rift. Now go and play Minecraft.

let's keep our eye on the price, shall we?

[argStyopa]

I know it's anathema for /. to praise MS but this is good.

The guy made not only catastrophically stupid comments, but came off as arrogant and patronizing. Whether his exit is graceful or humiliating, I don't really care: it's a GOOD THING that he has departed MS.

Whether it was a higher up 'suggesting he seek another opportunity', or him quitting after getting constant complaints about it, either way it should be clear that his beliefs are not going to be the company line at MS. That's an unmitigated good.

Re:let's keep our eye on the price, shall we?

[White Flame]

either way it should be clear that his beliefs are not going to be the company line at MS

That's not clear at all. We have no idea what the company line internally is, and one person spouting off casually might very well reflect what the rest of the direction is behind the scenes. The guy got shoved out because he made the public angry, and for no other reason.

Re:let's keep our eye on the price, shall we?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. What IS the price you talked about in the subject header? I mean, this doesn't look like it's affecting the cost of things at all. It's always a nice, schadenfreude-y PRIZE to see Microsoft humiliated like this, but how's this change the price of whatever it is you're pricing?

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[h4rr4r]

I hope you don't actually have kids. Giving in like that sends the wrong message.

Re:get rid of the people who messed the win 8 ui a

[Pi1grim]

Nobody messed up windows 8 interface. But those, who though it would be a good idea to slap metro UI on desktop OS should be forced to use windows 8 and touchscreens (take away their mice for good) until they beg for mercy.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Dancindan84]

Yeah, the key word is absurd though. I don't have a problem with unobtrusive DRM. I've only ever had Steam piss me off once, which honestly I feel is a fair trade off for the great deals and convenience it offers.

Always online DRM? Absurd.
DRM that ties a game to a specific machine so if your console dies and you replace it, it's a pain in the ass to play the game you bought? Absurd.
Online DRM that mostly stays out of my way and offers an offline mode, and in turn offers me a convenient store with great deals? Not absurd.

Of course no DRM is preferable, but I can't fault companies trying to protect their investment AS LONG as it doesn't overly convenience me as a legitimate customer.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Chrisq]

I hope you don't actually have kids. Giving in like that sends the wrong message.

True, IRL I take the opposite extreme, if I say something I will not back down. My wife thought I was taking it too far when I said "If you do that again your new game is going to the charity shop" when we'd just spent a lot of money on it, but my daughter has never ignored a threat like that since.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[LordNimon]

You're doing it wrong.

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......
Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: smacks kids across the face
Kid: "I'm sorry, Dad"

That's how it goes in my house.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Dancindan84]

Preview fail. Inconvenience me as a customer.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Teckla]

Because Sony is somehow better? Removing functionality, backward compatibility, being more expensive, root-kits, etc? How hasn't Sony fucked up in this generation of consoles?

Sony doesn't make people buy a monthly subscription just to watch Neftlix, which is an important factor for me. I'll probably switch from Xbox to PS for the next generation for that reason alone. It'll save me hundreds of dollars over the life of the console, I can't ignore that huge savings.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Somebody Is Using My]

That's when you visit a site like this to see what sort of crappy knock-offs are available, and get one of those for the kid.

"Daaa-aaaad! I want an X-Box!"
"What's wrong with the eXtreme Box I got you last year? It's the same thing ain't it, except it comes with a light gun!"

Phhht. I ain't got no sympathy for the kids. I mean, all I had was a Coleco Telestar, while everyone else had a Playstation. "It's the same thing, ain't it, except it comes with a light gun!"

Good ...

[gstoddart]

Good. Because his response to criticism about always-on requirements amounted to "let them eat cake".

If that's how you feel about your customers, don't be surprised when they decide you suck and don't want your product.

An always-on internet requirement makes this next XBox a complete non-starter for me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

#dealwithit

Re:Pay for internet

[Xest]

FWIW I started with a 360 and bought a PS3 later on, I was an XBox fanboy originally, but nowadays I could care less who "wins" a console battle (I guess I'm getting old).

But now I do have both, now I am apathetic to fanboyism I do feel that objectively the 360 feels more polished, the controllers not only feel better to hold and use, but the PS3 buttons even just outright feel like they don't respond sometimes. There's a lot of awkward inconsistencies such as sometimes when you download a game from the store you get an unlock file, and others you get the full game, and other times you get random extra downloads on top, then it's non-obvious what files you can delete so you end up with these files that do nothing but you're unsure if it's safe to delete them. Patching is horrendous, I had to download many 10s of gigabytes of patches for the handful of games I bought such that on my connection (a mere 4mbps, but still double the recommended 2mbps minimum for modern consoles) I ended up spending my first two to three days of owning the system patching games. The sign up process to Sony online was brutal, the site kept going down and I desperately tried to recover an SOE account from years ago but apparently that's a different Sony online thing to the Playstation one and that made it all a bit of a pain. It's still not a bad console, and yes Microsoft's advertising on the 360 UI after you've paid £40 a year is annoying, and yes it costs £40 a year, but the 360 is just so much more of a pleasure to use, it's so much more polished, and you spend so much less time patching.

All that ignores Sony's arrogance towards it's customers, but I bought mine after the Linux debacle, the removal of backwards compat. etc. so I knew exactly what I was buying (though that's subject to change given their history I guess).

If the 360 never existed the PS3 would still be a decent console, and even with the 360 I've had many hours of enjoyment out of my PS3 as both a Bluray player and on games like the Little Big Planet series, the Killzone series, and the Uncharted series. But if I was doing it all again knowing what I know now, even with the RROD debacle, I'd most definitely still have bought the 360 first.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[LordNimon]

Yeah, the key word is absurd though. I don't have a problem with unobtrusive DRM.

That's why I don't understand MS' silence on the always-on requirement. The Xbox 360 already has a working DRM system. It's very difficult to play a game unless you have the disc or purchased it from the Marketplace. Sure, I've heard some people manage to pirate Xbox 360 games, but I don't know of anyone who's even thought about doing that, and it's a lot of work. Frankly, I would be very surprised if 1% of Xbox 360 owners pirate any of their games. So from Microsoft's perspective, it should be a non-issue.

Therefore, the only reason for the always-on requirement is to kill the used game market. Could MS really be that stupid? Only time will tell.

One big joke gone wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

I honestly feel bad for Orth. What the media seemed to keep pretty quiet was the fact that this was a funny conversation between friends that was never supposed to be taken seriously. I'm not saying that it wasn't a mistake on his part, but I find it unfortunate that he got fired for things that he did not necessarily believe.

Re:One big joke gone wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are the "Creative Director for Microsoft Game Studios", you can not publicly say things like that even if they are not published through some official Microsoft channel.

ibitimes

[aclarke]

THANK YOU Timothy for pointing out the link to ibitimes.com. I can't stand that site and leave every time I end up there without realizing it. Videos with sound on a business-related site? What a horrendous idea.

To quote his own words ..

[hydrofix]

.. #dealwithit

First EA, now Microsoft?

[Spykk]

Who will be the next executive that loses his job over unpopular DRM? Surely at some point developers will weigh the costs versus the gains and realize that draconian DRM is a losing proposition.

Re:First EA, now Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who will be the next executive that loses his job over unpopular DRM? Surely at some point developers will weigh the costs versus the gains and realize that draconian DRM is a losing proposition.

Problem is, the whole discussion here is assuming something we don't know, and that is what always-on "functionality" the next X-box will have. We don't know that it will require to be online to play, these are just unsubstantiated rumors. If you go by the leaked developer documentation there is absolutely nothing there about X-box or games requiring connection to play. And you would assume this would be relevant for games developers to know. What that documentation do talk about is a low power always on always connected "sleep" mode that let's the X-Box update itself before you sit down to play.

Re:First EA, now Microsoft?

[thetoadwarrior]

Nope. Corporations realised that if you keep pushing then eventually consumers will give in.

Re:First EA, now Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Developers know this already. The problem is upper management.

Re:Pay for internet

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, how dare they have to use electricty to power servers, and personnel to monitor and maintain those servers, why can't they just power said servers with the powerhouse that is wishful thinking?

Re:Pay for internet

[thewolfkin]

while i concur that the XBL network is obviously more polished and the PSN inconsistencies are odd. But I haven't had issues signing up or recovering (for my UK account i forgot about during the blackout). I've always said that while the PSN isn't the greatest it works it does what it needs to do and I'd happily use it for free rather than paying to fix it. I actually find the 360 controller more awkward. The stick are splayed out, the button layout is kinda backward the d-pad is just a clunky circle. I've heard people rave about the triggers and while they are kinda nice I've never disliked the trigger on the dualshock3 in terms of the hardware and network i have been and remain quite content with the Sony offering. I'd like to get an 360 one day (my experience with the controller was one I bought for PC gaming) but I've rarely been annoyed with PSN.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Dancindan84]

Yeah, but my guess is they're thinking the "game on a disk" thing is on the way out (probably not wrong), and are looking for DRM outside of that model.

Re:Pay for internet

[RogueyWon]

I'd agree with you for the most part, but...

The 360 offering is substantially less attractive than it was two years ago. The new "third gen" dashboard UI is a big step back from the previous one. It's not just the sheer quantity of advertising, but also the irritation and number of navigations involved in trying to get to actual game content. Bizarrely, it's also a worse UI to navigate using Kinnect gesture/voice controls than the old "second gen" dashboard was.

The other issue, of course, is that while many frustrations remain around the PS3, Sony have raised their game in some respects. The PS Store is much better now than it used to be (admittedly that's a low bar) and PS Plus is actually a genuinely good service for people who don't have a massive amount to spend on games and don't care about always having the latest titles available, but just want a steady stream of games to play.

The controller issue, of course, is very real. The Sixaxis was awful and while the Dualshock 3 is better, it still has big drawbacks next to the 360 controller. It's too small for many people (including me), it offers poor grip and the shoulder buttons lack the precise analogue sensitivity of the 360 equivalent's.

And don't even get me started on mandatory game installs, patches and goddam firmware updates. At least Sony have realised that particular situation cannot continue on the PS4.

Good.

[GameboyRMH]

Just what I wanted:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3620333&cid=43377895

Re:Pay for internet

[oGMo]

OK I call BS:

There's a lot of awkward inconsistencies such as sometimes when you download a game from the store you get an unlock file, and others you get the full game, and other times you get random extra downloads on top, then it's non-obvious what files you can delete so you end up with these files that do nothing but you're unsure if it's safe to delete them.

This shows you have never actually used a PS3. After installation, there is just "the game". "Game data" and "Patch/DLC" may exist at some point, but only if you have run the game or downloaded them. These are all clearly labeled (assuming you know the definition of "DLC" or "Settings") and in a single location with the same game icon. There are no "files" that are "non-obvious".

For games where you download a demo and an unlock, these are merged into a single, unambiguous game. There is not even a separate "game data" at this point. From your description, it sounds like you saw someone download a demo, a game, and some DLC, and thought these were somehow all required to run the game.

While the demo+key solution may not seem like the most elegant, it's pretty nice when you try a game, decide you like it, and then don't have to spend another hour redownloading the full version .. you can just unlock it and continue playing in a minute or few total.

I do feel that objectively the 360 feels more polished, the controllers not only feel better to hold and use, but the PS3 buttons even just outright feel like they don't respond sometimes.

This is not "objective". Subjectively, to you, the 360 feels "more polished" and the controller "feels better to hold". I have the opposite experience; the 360's controller is OK, but I prefer the DualShock (and I have big hands). This is the first time I have ever heard of a non-broken PS3 controller feeling "like they don't respond sometimes".

Patching is horrendous, I had to download many 10s of gigabytes of patches for the handful of games I bought

OK at this point it's clear we're dealing with FUD. The biggest patch I've ever seen was around 200MB. The biggest downloadable full game I've ever seen is 14GB (though I typically buy discs .. infamous 2 was free for PS+). Never have these required "10s of gigabytes of patches".

The sign up process to Sony online was brutal, the site kept going down and I desperately tried to recover an SOE account from years ago but apparently that's a different Sony online thing to the Playstation one and that made it all a bit of a pain.

Er... so filling in a few blanks on the screen was "brutal"? I suppose if you're really a cluebie, you might confuse SOE and PSN, but nowhere is SOE or an SOE account mentioned in the signup process. Perhaps it would be nice if they merged these at some point, but that would get its own share of complaints. And let me tell you about the "recovery" process for XBOX/GFWL accounts...

In any case, this entire rant comes off either FUD, an incredibly inexperienced user, or someone who uses a 360 and watched their kids using a PS3.

Called it.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is my not surprised face. I figured when they muzzled him he was on his way out.

So what was that about "What the [heck] are you talking about?" /edit - heh, captcha: Chopping

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[admdrew]

Correct.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

Teenager: *punches you back, leaves home, has crack babies at 16, you get to be a parent again for 2 years until you can actually legally kick them out of your house*

Hitting only works until they're stronger than you are.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

Answer: "One more question from you when you already have the answer and youre getting a timeout in the corner followed by no TV all night - test me, and youre doing the dishes - test me again, youre vacuuming the floor"

Your kid already knows the key to your lock - dont give up and Daddy will cave like a bitch.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[StuartHankins]

Sounds like a great opportunity to discuss the issue at length with your kids. You may find that the XBox is just a prophylactic for some need that isn't fulfilled.

In place of an XBox, for instance, I bought a Wii. I know it's not a hardcore gamer platform, but my kids don't play violent games. They can do that when they're older if they want; I think my son started around 16 or so. He turned out fine and only hates me as much as any teenager should.

I get them iTunes gift cards and we build things together and cook and go outside and visit parks and cool local events, or go to the beach or the pool or the library and get movies and music and books. In other words -- in the middle of all the other stuff that's out there -- an XBox is such a very small thing. You'd never notice it's not there if you do everything else. YMMV and all that. I just think it's an imaginary duality.

Of course ...

[garry_g]

probably M$ asked him to step down not because of what he said, but because he let people know ahead of time instead of them not knowing until after they bought the new XBox ...

Re:Pay for internet

[Xest]

Oh dear, we have a fanboy.

"This shows you have never actually used a PS3. After installation, there is just "the game". "Game data" and "Patch/DLC" may exist at some point, but only if you have run the game or downloaded them. These are all clearly labeled (assuming you know the definition of "DLC" or "Settings") and in a single location with the same game icon. There are no "files" that are "non-obvious"."

So tell me genius, why when I download the trial of Joe Danger, and then later bought the Joe Danger + Joe Danger 2 pack that was on sale did I end up with two copies of Joe Danger, with no way of telling which was my bought copy and which wasn't when I go to delete? Why when I downloaded Guardians of Middle Earth as a PS+ subscriber do I get a license file that remains after I've unlocked the game, can I delete it or not? Do I need this license file? You mention yourself DLC downloads - some of these I got by unlocking free content, I download them, they appear, so can I delete them then or what? Sometimes I seem to have to install them and they dissapear, other times not. It's non-obvious, it's inconsistent. There's literally nothing anywhere that tells you if it's safe to delete, it's entirely guess work and the user interface is structures such that you really need to delete it as that single file vertical list can get rather annoyingly long rather quickly.

"While the demo+key solution may not seem like the most elegant, it's pretty nice when you try a game, decide you like it, and then don't have to spend another hour redownloading the full version .. you can just unlock it and continue playing in a minute or few total."

Yes and that's great, that's how it works on the 360 (although it's more streamlined - you buy the game and the license file installation is performed automatically and transparently) but it's not even consistent, some games do it others don't, when I download the free game "Guardians of Middle Earth" I end up with this 300kb or so file which obviously isn't the full game, I have to figure out for myself that somewhere else on the store in a completely different place, buried out the way, is the trial which I can download and apply this license to manually.

"This is not "objective"."

It's objective because I have no interest in some petty fanboy fight because I grew up and got past that, and as someone who has some experience with ergonomics and interface design I can see that objectively, Microsoft have done a better job of putting things together in those regards. Yes you may feel personally you prefer the PS3 controller, but I guarantee you that in an unbiased study, you'd be very much in the minority.

"OK at this point it's clear we're dealing with FUD. The biggest patch I've ever seen was around 200MB. The biggest downloadable full game I've ever seen is 14GB (though I typically buy discs .. infamous 2 was free for PS+). Never have these required "10s of gigabytes of patches"."

So let me get this straight, you're saying I've never used a PS3 and then you proceed to spout what is trivially demonstrably false? Little Big Planet 2, 1.20 is 1gb alone. When you patch LBP, and LBP2 up alone you've got a few gigabytes, doing Resistance, God of War series, Killzone series, MGS4 etc. easily pumped that up to over 10gb.

"Er... so filling in a few blanks on the screen was "brutal"? I suppose if you're really a cluebie"

Yes, when the site repeatedly goes down, and when completely innocent and harmless nicknames I try I can't have without reason why and where the message as to why I can't have it changes from already taken, to some arbitrary message about invalid nickname (even though it was valid in terms of the rules stated).

"In any case, this entire rant comes off either FUD, an incredibly inexperienced user, or someone who uses a 360 and watched their kids using a PS3."

This would be funny if it weren't so sad that you make such a statement whilst apparently knowing less about the system t

Re:Pay for internet

[Xest]

I do agree, Sony has raised it's game, whilst Microsoft has at best stood still.

But it still has so far to go to catch up with XBL, and given that Microsoft has stood still for at least a few years, and arguably gone backwards (as you say, more ads, a slightly less nice UI) it's pretty damning that it's not just outright overtaken it as it's fairly clear what needs to be done.

I'm especially surprised though that with the PS4 they've kept the controller pretty much the same, this almost tells me that Sony just don't give a shit about taking on criticism of such things or learning from their competitors. That's not a good sign given that's what caused them so many problems with the current gen.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

You should try something along the line:

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no, and if you keep asking you won't have desserts, too".......

Devil's advocate, checking in

[wynterwynd]

I'm going to jump in here and buck the hivemind by saying this may have been a case of Internet overreaction and mob persecution. This guy has said multiple times that this was a snarky banter between friends on Twitter, he just had the lack of foresight to make his feed private. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, considering the horrible things I sometimes say to provoke my friends.

Would you want to be held accountable to your entire customer base for your snarky conversations with your friends? If you made some wholly inappropriate out of context comment while baiting/trolling your buddies, would you want the world to treat that as not only your actual stance, but that of your employer?

Now before the nerd rage bubbles over, let me caveat:

At best, the guy was at least a dumbass who didn't realize how connected his life was. In a position like that, even when he's talking with friends, he's talking with the Internet and cannot help but represent his job considering how many people it affects. Games are serious business on the Intertron, and you flick the nose of your customers at your peril.

At worst, he was the arrogant douche the internet proclaims him to be and sold himself on his company's own Kool-Aid, which is a terrible mistake in any profession and he paid the price.

I think it's good for Microsoft that this issue was dragged out into the spotlight before the console launched - and I think it's tragic that it cost Adam a career. Let this be a lesson for people in high-profile game industry positions - you are NEVER just talking to one person on the Internet, and the public eye never blinks.

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[Anonymous Coward]

If I made snarky comments to my friends in a public place, like twitter, then I have no one to blame but myself for what happens.Everyone is held accountable for what they do in public, being a dumbass is not an excuse.

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[SuiteSisterMary]

On the flip side, remember: Feminists making dick jokes on public twitter to a friend = perfectly fine. Feminists overhearing dick jokes between two friends = get them fired.

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[thetoadwarrior]

Of course. Angry internet nerds are everything they complain about the "popular kids" in school being. They're bulliest, far too worried about popularity, rely heavily on building up cliques and stop at nothing to tear down anything they don't like.

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[Anonymous Coward]

"Let this be a lesson for people in high-profile game industry positions - you are NEVER just talking to one person on the Internet, and the public eye never blinks."

Why should only high profile game industry positions learn from this?

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[wynterwynd]

Everyone in a high-profile position should learn from this, but it seems like the Internet has a special hatred for people that mess with their gaming. One recent example is EA's two-time "worst company in America" award from the Consumerist.

Really? Worst company in America? Worse than Haliburton? Worse than Bank of America? Worse than ExxonMobil?

http://www.dorkly.com/article/51363/eas-reponse-to-being-named-the-worst-company-in-america - Totally fake reply letter, but puts things in perspective. Don't fuck with the Internet's vidja games or we will rate you worse than murderers, thieves, and mass-poisoners.

Additionally, game companies' bottom lines can be made or broken by fan rage, so they tend to take more dramatic action about an employee who shits the bed on a social network.

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[Anonymous Coward]

I am all for freedom unless I come across something in the world I don't like. No need to convince or reason with people towards something more beneficial to both of us. Coup, topple repeat.

Re:Devil's advocate, checking in

[Anonymous Coward]

so, it's always on.

Re:Pay for internet

[RogueyWon]

I wonder if the controller issue is driven by a desire for regional standardisation. There's a general consensus (wonder if it's actually true?) that Japanese gamers prefer a smaller controller and US gamers prefer a larger one (though obviously not one as large as the original Xbox controller). As a Japanese company, Sony will always be more exposed to feedback from its home market.

But yes, while I'm generally positive about the PS4 reveal, the controller does stand out as a bit of a sore-point.

I frequently make that argument about Steam

[Anonymous Coward]

and am roundly vilified for it.

If MS puts always-on DRM on the next xbox... stupid idiots -will- buy it... and they will call you a Luddite for opposing it.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not buying that shit. Neither should you.

You obviously don't have kids saying "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no".......

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no", that's strike one.......

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no", that's strike two.......

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no", that's strike three little buddy. What did you want to give up for a week, your favourite toy or your favourite tv channel?

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no", that's strike four, guess it's your favourite toy and tv channel for a month, hey?

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no", that's strike five, kiddo, no tv or internet privileges at all for a month.

Kid: "Dad, can I have an x-box", answer: "no", that's strike six I'm afraid, no tv or internet privileges at all for three months. ....etc.

There, FTFY.

Kids can be cured of nagging, if they understand that there is consequences when they do so. If all they learn is that if they nag hard enough they'll eventually get what they want, why on earth would they ever stop?

An alternative strategy, if it's something that you don't mind them having but don't want to get for them right now, is having them work for it. Log their chores and/or behaviour, and assign it some monetary or points value, then sit down with them weekly and help them figure out how close their points are to earning the item that they want. Bonus points for unexpected help or best-behaviour situations, points subtracted for negative behaviour. Kids can appeal points off by presenting logical arguments or valid mitigating circumstances, but once the 'judge' has ruled, the ruling is final. It's a good chance to introduce them to cause and effect, logic, argument presentation and earned gratification.

Meh. But what do I know, I don't even have kids. Good luck there!
-CCarrot (posting anon to preserve mods)

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[_xeno_]

Yeah, the key word is absurd though. I don't have a problem with unobtrusive DRM. I've only ever had Steam piss me off once, which honestly I feel is a fair trade off for the great deals and convenience it offers.

You've obviously never tried to use Steam without an Internet connection. It may not be "always on" in that you won't be kicked out of a game if you lose Internet access in the middle of playing, but you won't be allowed to start any games without an active Internet connection - even "DRM free" games bought through Steam.

And, sure, Steam has an "offline" mode. It can only be activated if you currently have an active Internet connection.

So if you forget to explicitly "go offline" before leaving home or lose Internet access for whatever reason, I hope you don't intend to play any games using Steam - because you won't be allowed to do it until you find a working Internet connection.

Unobtrusive my ass.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Anonymous Coward]

Great parenting! Now the kid knows they'll get whatever they want if they whine enough.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[_xeno_]

Sony doesn't make people buy a monthly subscription just to watch Neftlix, which is an important factor for me.

Doesn't yet. They have added a new feature called "PSN Plus" which is a monthly subscription and is required to access some basic functionality.

We're talking about Sony. They don't shy away from removing features in their console that users have been using. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they make it so that NetFlix only works if you have PSN Plus.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Dancindan84]

Actually, I use Steam without an Internet connection all the time. The one time it pissed me off WAS because of forgetting to make sure I had it in offline mode before leaving for a cottage trip. Now I don't forget. It takes 10 seconds. The alternatives are buying the game on disk, which means I either have to wait for it to be shipped to me or go buy it at the store, both of which are a lot more inconvenient that having to remember to click a button, or using a different service, all of which are WAY more obtrusive. Have you tried dealing with Origin? That bag of crap makes me want to kick puppies.

If that's enough for you to avoid the platform altogether that's your choice, but I don't find offline mode that obtrusive at all. And as I said in the other part of my post, I find that inconvenience is more than offset by the benefits of Steam.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[_xeno_]

Offline mode is only useful if you know ahead of time you will be offline.

It's entirely useless when you don't know that Comcast is going to go and lose Internet access in your area for a day and a half, or for the half-hour outages that occur at random times.

The problem with always-on DRM is that it not only assumes that everyone will have an Internet connection, it also assumes that they're 100% reliable. They're not.

And the whole "must be online to be offline" thing that Steam does is just beyond ridiculous.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Rotag_FU]

It's parents who will say, "No. We're getting a PS4 instead because it has 99% of the same games and doesn't have absurd DRM requirements."

- Said no parent anywhere, ever.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Dancindan84]

Ummm.... it doesn't work that way. Once a game is good to go with offline mode it stays that way unless there's an update. I live in the country on a rural wireless internet connection, so it drops like panties at a Keith Urban concert and I've never had any issues with getting locked out of a game unless it was in the middle of updating and couldn't finish.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[JGuru42]

I'm in awe of this. I use Netflix on my laptop and on my Wii (as it has built in Wifi) but not on my original type XBox 360 so I didn't know that Netflix required XBox Gold to be able to use. That is just the epitome of stupid. I would be so angry if I had subscribed to Netflix thinking I'd stream through the XBox just to find out I had to pay Microsoft money for the privilege of doing it through their console.

Microsoft in total meltdown

[Anonymous Coward]

Firstly, did the owners of Slashdot make a mistake here? I mean, promoting a story that has some technical merit, rather than yet another propaganda piece attacking Wikileaks, Iran, NK and Syria, or praising Israel. Still, I suppose the ever rarer tech stories become the 'spoonful of sugar' that allows the Goebbels black propaganda 'medicine' from Slashdot's owners go down more easily. PS, notice how the entertainment machine for the betas, Hollywood, gave its most important awards to the movies 'Argo', 'Black Hawk Down' and 'The Hurt Locker'. The black propagandists are NOT what you would call "subtle".

Anyway, Microsoft. The age of the PC (the desktop Wintel box) is well and truly over. It has had a fantastic run, let's face it. Microsoft was never any good- but they stuck with the project, invested heavily in a consistent progression, and provided the best generic computing environment that also matched the improving power of the hardware to a reasonable degree. One or twice, versions of Microsoft's Office and development tools were even quite respectable (although their current products are technically atrocious).

Now Microsoft faces the nightmare. Android, and/or some other version of Linux is poised to steal ALL of their business. Open-source projects are either better than anything Microsoft offers (even when 'price' isn't taken into account) or could be made better with a slight improvement in the focus and management of the open source 'team'. Microsoft has failed totally to move into the new 'service' based markets in any meaningful way.

The last of the 'old school' benefits from the PC market are being grabbed by companies like Sony (with their incredible new console based on an ultimate PC design), while Microsoft hopelessly apes Apple into being as 'proprietary' as possible. MS's new console is a Playstation2 like nightmare of hardware-hacks and non-generic coding environments. Whereas Sony bought state-of-the-art hyper-fast unified memory solutions from AMD, Microsoft decided to use its own 'genius' to hack up the ultimate in non-unified memory designs, aping the atrocious Haswell concept from Intel.

With the Xbox720 (yes, I know this won't be the release name), Microsoft is actually focusing on services it provides Obama and the NSA. The 720 is always on, so their is maximum chance external agencies can exploit the cameras and mike arrays that MUST always be connected to the 720 for the 720 to function. The 720 is literally designed to be the ultimate spying device. The hires cameras in the 720 are good enough for face-recognition and identification of items and reading material. The mike array can frequently hear speech in adjacent rooms. Image, video and audio streams can be remotely triggered without the user ever being aware.

There is a common 'trick' used to re-assure the very, very stupid. Namely, that with a significant effort, the individual owner of a Xbox720 might be able to block the spying functions. However, given that the 'paranoid' person can guarantee to kill all 720 spying by not having one in the first place, even the dumb-dumbs can surely see this isn't the point. The target is the vast majority of people who simply use a thing without ever caring about the consequences. Rather like the way intelligence agencies paid to have shows like 'Big Brother' made to encourage the sheep to accept spy cameras everywhere in their lives, Microsoft actually BOASTS about the 'spy' functions by describing them as ways to share your 'experiences' with other people online.

Microsoft is thus lost trying to please the wrong people. Having Obama and his intelligence goons pat the most senior controllers of MS on the back makes these idiots feel they are achieving something. Meanwhile, no-one wants their crappy tablets, phone, Windows 8, crippled Windows on Arm, or the 'Metro' versions of Office or the tool chains. Microsoft cannot decide whether it is still a partner of Intel or not (Microsoft has some possibility of morphing into something useful in the future, whereas

Of course he was pushed

[thetoadwarrior]

Come on, the guy upset a huge portion of Microsoft's online fanbase. He didn't leave his cushy job, he was asked to leave for making it obvious that Microsoft is doing something with the next xbox that no one wants.

PC: Buy Now; Consoles: Seeking a publisher

[tepples]

PC games are always buggy. Console games just work.

"Always" is a strong word. What do you do when you learn of a game, visit the game's web site, and discover that the game isn't ported to your console?

• PC (Windows, Mac, Linux): Play First Chapter Free | Buy Now
• OUYA: Find us on OUYA Store
• Other consoles: We are seeking a publisher. If you represent a publisher interested in this game, contact us.

Re:PC: Buy Now; Consoles: Seeking a publisher

[Narishma]

Developers have been able to self-publish on the PSN (PS3, Vita and upcoming PS4) for a while now.

Compare to the original Xbox

[tepples]

The whole reason for using the standard x86 is so developers can more easily port games between consoles and PCs. [...] Why bother with a five to eight hundred dollar console with very few exclusive games that's going to [...] have the same titles and more

If that were true, then the publisher of every game for the original Xbox console would have also released a port to Windows. But I seem to remember that a lot of Xbox games never had a PC version. Games oriented toward single-screen multiplayer, such as fighting games and party games, seem to get PC ports least often.

Re:Compare to the original Xbox

[Vanderhoth]

There's only theory to back it up, but my best guess would be Microsoft didn't want to put their console in competition with Windows PCs. I could be entirely wrong, but why would someone spend $500-$800 for a console if they could just buy the games to play on an existing Windows PC at no extra cost!

Exclusive games sell consoles. I can't count the number of times I've read arguments between Sony and MS fanbois about which console had the best exclusives.

I think the big question now is why all the sudden are Sony and MS moving to a standard x86 architecture where it will be easier for developers to port games between all three systems?

LMAO

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

So the Xbox director leaves on cusp of Microsoft releasing details about the new Xbox after making comments that seem to suggest he doesn't understand or respect gamers and consumers.

WOW, I think the next Xbox is going to be awesome!!!

Eighteenth birthday

[tepples]

It gives the teenage gamer something to look forward to for his eighteenth birthday.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[Belial6]

Just use the Netflix player built into your TV. If your TV doesn't have it, $50 and you can have a Roku that will play your Netflix. Netflix on a gaming console falls into the category of, 'They might as well offer it since the device can handle it.' It shouldn't even come into play in deciding to buy a game system. Of course, paying an extra fee to watch Netflix on your console is just plain absurd.

Web BBS works with dial-up or library Internet

[tepples]

Slashdot and other web-based message boards can be used with Internet connections as slow as dial-up or ISDN or EDGE. I don't think eighth-generation game consoles are designed to work with such sub-0.2 Mbps connections.

Slashdot and other web-based message boards can be used at public libraries. I don't think a lot of public libraries allow bringing in a video game console.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[dissy]

Does that huge savings factor in the cost of credit monitoring services after Sony releases your personal info and credit card to the public?

What about the months of downtime during which you won't be able to use the PS4 let alone watch netflix, because some kids hack into and take down their network?

It's like spending a dollar to save a penny...

Rank and file can get reamed and fired too.

[girlinatrainingbra]

re: If a rank and file employee says "deal with it" to their customers on a very public forum,...
.
I agree with you completely. It's the action itself and the perception of the action that matters, not just the organizational heights of the Peter Principle reached by the speakers in question.
.
If a rank-and-file member of an organization says things like "I'd like to fork his code" or mentions something about the dangle of his dongle, they're likely to be fired too, if someone with some interesting PR skills decides to take a photo and try to twitter-shame someone rather than just confronting them directly about their (misperceived) [IMHO] rudeness.
.
I'd fork his code if my dongle could only activate my apparatus. -- /me ducks for cover! If anyone would like to make a joke about the Peter Principle and dongles and/or forking, please take a stab at it. I can't believe I skipped over Peter Principle without thinking of a joke! :>(

Re:Pay for internet

[TWiTfan]

The new "third gen" dashboard UI is a big step back from the previous one. It's not just the sheer quantity of advertising, but also the irritation and number of navigations involved in trying to get to actual game content

I would like to second that, and add that the Netflix app on the 360 has went from one of the best out there to one of the most annoying. It's now a lot harder to move to specific episodes of the TV show and that new autoplay shit is the spawn of Satan.

Re:If new Xbox requires always on internet connect

[LordNimon]

But they already have DRM for downloaded content. Any game you buy is already tied to your console. It's also tied to your gamertag, so as long as you connect online and sign in with your gamertag, you can play any content you've purchased.

In other words, the Xbox 360 already has DRM for downloadable content. And the DRM is already pretty restrictive. There's no way, for instance, that I can have anything I've purchased tied to more than one Xbox.

Re:Pay for internet

[xhrit]

...the PS3 buttons even just outright feel like they don't respond sometimes.

This is actually why I prefer the ps3 controller over the 360 one. The reason being the buttons on the ps3 controller are pressure sensitive. Unlike the buttons in the xbox 360 controller which are simple mechanical switches with just 2 states, on or off, the buttons in the playstation 3 controller have 1024 possible states, where 0 is not pressed and 1023 is pressed all the way.

Most games do not use this functionality and instead track ps3 buttons as anything over 200 is on and anything under is off. Some games however, such as Wipeout HD, make use of the full range of the controller's sensitivity, meaning if you assign throttle to X and press X only half way down, you will only go half your maximum speed; same thing with your craft's ailerons; pressing the button half way down will only open your flaps half way...

As a result, the ps3 controller allows for far more precision, at least if you are familiar with the device's performance envelope.

Company Information Form and release slots

[tepples]

I'm building a business plan. What steps should a developer with a nearly completed debut PC game take to make its Company Information Form more attractive in order to become licensed to buy the devkit? And once the port to a PlayStation family platform is completed and passes bas, how does it qualify for release?

Internet on laptop while a passenger

[tepples]

That said, I've had 'always on' Internet since, like, 1998 or something.

Let me guess: you drive everywhere, and everywhere you visit makes a Wi-Fi hotspot available to guests. This is not the case for everyone else. A lot of places still have no Wi-Fi for guests, and instead of driving everywhere, a lot of people ride a bus or train or carpool. I don't think mobile broadband was affordable fifteen years ago.

Re:Internet on laptop while a passenger

[SuiteSisterMary]

No, I'm talking about residential broadband. Cable and DSL modems. This is in regards to the xbox 720 or whatever requiring 'always on' Internet.

Re:Internet on laptop while a passenger

[tepples]

Some people who have high-speed Internet access at home carry a console and TV to a place without it. For example, I used to take my N64, then my GameCube, then my Wii to an annual family reunion until half the family moved to Arizona and stopped participating. The facility where this reunion was held had no Internet access available to guests.

Re:Internet on laptop while a passenger

[SuiteSisterMary]

Which is likely an extremely edge case.

Now, I doubt very highly that the 720 will *require* Internet access. But it could very well be that Microsoft's done the market research, crunched the numbers, and decided it's a good idea.

Re:Internet on laptop while a passenger

[tepples]

[Using a gaming device at a party at a rented facility with no guest Internet] is likely an extremely edge case.

Another edge case is the use of a console to pass the time while one's home ISP is having an outage that happens not to also affect electric power. But there's a thing about certain tech-savvy minorities: they tend to be vocal. And in a lot of cases, vocal minorities' complaints spread quickly through social networks, both online and offline.

Offline Slashdot. Arrr.

[tepples]

Once Dice.com instituted an "always on" Internet connection policy to read Slashdot

Then I must be a dirty pirate for violating that policy. I can open several discussions in tabs, download all comments scored at least 1, and read them without an Internet connection. I need to connect only to retrieve additional comments or additional stories. I often read Slashdot on my netbook while riding the bus to and from work, composing comments in a text editor for pasting next time I connect. Arrr.

Offline mode of Steam

[tepples]

if the two companies have colluded on the matter the console space may get very unpleasant

Unpleasant for Sony and Microsoft, pleasant for Nintendo and Valve. Wii U plays Wii U disc games without connecting, and Steam has an offline mode that doesn't need to connect more than once every few weeks to renew licenses.The License Verification Library on Google Play can be set to operate like Steam, where the license is cached for several days. It also has a strict mode that operates without caching, but Google warns in multiple places that this mode will cause an application not to work on airplanes. The Ouya receipt system isn't entirely clear as to whether receipts are cached.

Don't knock Famiclones

[tepples]

That's when you visit a site like this to see what sort of crappy knock-offs are available [link to list including PolyStation]

Yeah, you'd probably have to be on PCP to appreciate the PCP Station or any of the other Game & Watch style products in that list. But don't be too quick to knock the PolyStation or any other NES-compatible console. NES games are still being developed in the 2010s. You can play Battle Kid, LAN Master, Nomolos, Streemerz, Thwaite, Zooming Secretary, and other new NES games on it with the right memory card. In fact, they've figured out how to read up and down coordinates from the light gun, so if your NES-compatible console supports the Zapper (like the eXtreme Box on page 3 of your list) and you still have a CRT TV, you can play a passable facsimile of Wii Play Laser Hockey.

All you need for the next 6 years

[DeanCubed]

All you need is a PC and a Wii U. Then you can play ALL the AAA high end graphics blockbusters other than a few Sony exclusives (All MS exclusives will come to Windows other than maybe Halo and Forza), and you still get all the living room multiplayer fun of a Nintendo console (and Nintendo's exclusives) along with all the TV apps (like Netflix and Hulu) on the Wii U you will ever need, and your choice of Nintendo E-Shop or Steam for your indie gaming needs. There's really no need for a PS4 or Xbox "Durango", you won't miss much. If you REALLY like gaming, get a 3DS as well, or get one for the kids.

Chilling response

[Ginger Unicorn]

...how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers.

does anyone else find this wording sinister? Like you're owned by Microsoft, a dehumanised "consumer", like suckling piglets, slavishly loyal to the teat that feeds you.

He should have made a video like this guy...

[inHaliburton]

He could have gone out on a wave of glory like this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSfDanfTNw8

I am sure he "resigned"...

[DarthVain]

I read that with "air quotes" around resigned.

Option A) You are going to be fired tomorrow.
Option B) Resign today and get a nice package.

"I think it is time for me to step down and pursue other interests and opportunities..."

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