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UK Benefits Claimants Must Use Windows XP, IE6
First time accepted submitter carlypage3 writes "Benefits claimants in the UK are being forced to use Microsoft's now obsolete Windows XP and Internet Explorer 6 software. The Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) states that its online forms are not compatible with Internet Explorer 7, 8, 9 and 10, Safari, Google Chrome or Firefox. As if that wasn't unnerving enough, the Gov.UK website says that users cannot submit claims using Mac OS X or Linux operating systems, either."
(Note: as we noted not long ago, it's not just the DWP that's stuck using IE6.)
Yeah, say that to a huge beefy ex. marine that just loves his Google Glasses, and then we'll talk.
...oh wait...
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
This actually makes perfect sense. On a modern PC it will involve the user learning about virtualisation (to run XP) and then also learning how to configure windows (to not run updates). This is great way of preparing dole claimants for an IT job so by the time you have gained enough skills to claim any dole money you have enough skills to go straight into a job as and IT support worker for the dole office and their crappy old IT systems.
I dont read
This is just something they have put online, the old method of claiming by post or going to the office like always is still there.
You're new here, so let me give you a bit of advice:
1. Prepare for ridicule. You're not providing much of any substance at all, and this little hissy fit has nothing to do with the article anyway. That's not well tolerated here.
2. Very few people will actually see your post, as it's pretty much going to instantly be moderated down as a "troll" post due to its... well, trolliness, really.
3. See #1.
...we even still have this problem. Seriously, stop being short sighted fuckwits. Stop using vendor specific code. Start using shit that passes the W3C validator. Problem fucking solved. Imagine that! There is absolutely no excuse for any webpage out there to require a specific browser or browser version, short of being able to meet current web standards.
Not many years ago in Denmark, they had that issue as well.
Even with the banks you had to use IE(some version), otherwise you just couldn't pay your bills.
I'd say they did us a favor, because it taught a lot of people to get "off the system" instead of being dependent on it.
The narrower your choice as a citizen becomes, the more need for freedom you'll have (Geez, I might want to hold back on the booze, starting to sound like Yoda here)...;)
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Clearly if you can afford a new computer or have the skills to run Linux, you should be able to fend for yourself.
Yes, it's crap that applying for these benefits requires ancient browser tech, but note that this is for three specific benefits which will affect hardly anyone. The most common of these benefits, Disability Living Allowance, is closed to new applicants because it has been replaced by Personal Independence Payments. And Attendance Allowance was long ago replaced by DLA, now replaced by PIP except for those over 65.
A latent existence
Hanlon's Razor begs to differ.
Compatibility Mode only swaps out the user agent string and the rendering engine. It doesn't change anything else, such as browser security settings. For example, if the site is using SSL 2.0 only, then no modern browser will allow a connection to it (2.0 being rather broken). However, an old enough browser might still allow 2.0, which is a setting independent of the rendering engine.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
That way your payments you dole out will really drop fast.
Can I claim the license for MS OS for me to be able to submit my claims ? I sure as hell wouldn't be able to afford to buy a new OS if I were visiting the benefits claim site ...!
From the article, these are the following supported browsers:
Microsoft Windows XP: Internet Explorer 6.0, Netscape 7.2, Firefox 1.0.3, Mozilla 1.7.7."
Firefox is still available (Windows link) and is fairly independent from the underlying OS, so it would probably work on Vista+/Mac/Linux too (If you can find Mac/Linux links).
Still a pain to have to pick and choose browsers. It is easier for the average person to use the offline version.
Even easier for the hacker to compromise such an outdated website and input their benefits claim directly into the database tables
(and already approved for their 10 fake identities of course).
A plot to show people that libertarians are on to something.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
I went to the website using the Safari browser on MacOS X, and without any problems opened the PDF form (which supposedly cannot be opened), started filling it in, and printed it (to a PDF file to avoid wasting paper, but that's the same thing). So this works absolutely fine if you have a modern Mac running MacOS X 10.8 (I didn't try older versions), and you either have a printer, or you have the e-mail address of a friend who has a printer (on a Mac, the "Print" function lets you print to your own printer, to a PDF file, to a PDF file stored in "Web receipts" which is quite handy, or to a PDF file that is mailed somewhere). You put the paper into an envelope and mail it in. That's it. So if you want to get these benefits, there is absolutely no need to use Windows, Windows XP, or Internet Explorer 6.
Mitt, is that you?
Being in the UK and working in IT, I actually for once RTFA and visited the site. To start with I must admit I was flabbergasted. However, looking at it more closely, it is clear that what we are looking at here is a web-site that was created when the latest OSes and web browsers just didn't exist. Clearly someone has thought to insert the statement that you may have problems with these later OSes and web-browsers, so the site content can be tweaked, but the actual site itself (and the underlying architecture) was probably written years ago and left unchanged.
One give-away is that the site uses ASP (rather than ASP.NET). I doubt any new site has been written using ASP for over ten years! (ASP.NET came out in 2002).
So there we have it, an antique, a living fossil. Enjoy it while it is still up.
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
Yes, because everyone who's poor and doesn't have a job needs to be dinged for a new PC that has an up to date browser that is as html5 compatible as possible.
From frying pan and into the fire.
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 is only just now obsolete? No, it has been obsolete since sometime around 2003 when Microsoft let it stagnate.
This is what happens when you put something "on the web" that doesn't need to be on it. It sounds like the user base for this is now small enough the people who need this should just contact them in person, or by telephone, or perhaps just good old pencil and paper.
But no, it has got to be "on the web", in a database, on a computer, with XML, and object oriented. And then they won't spend any money to update it to the constantly evolving/devolving changing rearranging web "standards", and then it just sits out there and rots.
There is still the option to send the forms by mail.
These systems are obsolete, the benefits in question have been replaced by others. This is just a feeble attempt to drum up ad views.
Fixed that for you.
Yes, because you know, the people who are in need of benefits are known to be geeks, and love to learn new IT systems.
The website might say that Windows XP- and IE6- is required, but I successfully filled out a claim for my partner yesterday on Linux Mint 14 and the latest Chrome developer channel build.
The thing that amazes me is that the DWP has spent many millions on its IT system, yet:
- the benefit dispatch system is based on an ancient text-based terminal system dating as far back as at least 2000, if not earlier. I spoke to another engineer who worked on it some time ago, who said that the system is based on a combination of DOS and Netware. /8 - that they barely use a fraction of - at a time IPv4 addresses are scarce.
- the LMS front end is a completely seperate Delphi based system that has not been updated in at least a decade
- all their IT systems are completely seperate - updating the mainframe does not update LMS and vice versa
- last time I worked with the DWP, they sent updates between branches *by snail mail*, although I think this is no longer true
- it was one of the few parts of the GOV.UK overhaul left untouched, and
- they own a whole
That said I'm not at all surprised by this, seeing as much of the DWP is stuck in the Stone Age as far as computing is concerned. Many of the staff have no idea LibreOffice and Linux even exist. I'm not even going to go into the major clusterf**k that the Universal Credit system is inevitably going to end up being.
The corollary to Hanlon's razor is that stupidity and malice are indistinguishable -that's real life.
Perhaps they just want to make sure that you are actually poor before you can receive any dole payments. In other words, somebody with a more modern system is more likely to be able to afford to cover their own living expenses.
Crude, but what if it works?
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
I'm quite certain that the one that should be fried is the person writing the specs. It's almost certain the contractor wrote to spec, and if they don't include something akin to "must run on all browsers", why should he bother doing it?
Remember: When you're working for the government, deliver what is specified and NOTHING ELSE!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I've worked in local government IT in the UK, it is a world of pain. My machine is a 1gb Pentium 4, it takes me 15 minutes to get to my e-mail from a cold boot. I mentioned why we are still using XP since it is EOL next year, I got the feeling it hadn't crossed anyone's mind. There are lot of old hats in UK government who are still working the same way they did 15 years ago.
In my current place I was shocked they don't use source control, and roll their own logging routines when there are better free libraries already out there. Everyone seems to do "daily checks" as if monitoring software hasn't been invented yet. The software that is bought in is even worse, it's tragic.
The short sighted conservative has spoken.
Allow me to ask you a question: What do you think would happen if we do what you suggest? You then have a lot of people who don't have a job, have no chance to get one, have no money and need it for food and shelter, or they die.
You have money.
Take a wild guess what happens next.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Huh? What does politics have to do with web standards? WTF
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Recording a person without their permission is also illegal in a lot of places. In the UK to legally wear these you'd need a sign above your head saying you are recording video.
Yeah that's *exactly* what we need. A bunch of bigots, neo nazis and former investment bankers running the country. Smart suggestion.
Everything. In particular the usage of them (or the lack of it) in large government bureaucracies. It's all down to bribery, contacts, idiocy, etc. I think the last time I heard that politicians beneficially did something FOR the people on a large scale was Australia's successful ban on guns.
With the Opera web browser. Funny how many government websites tell me my browser is not support (Canada for exemple) and yet everything works perfectly fine. If your staff is too damn lazy to test their shits correctly instead of putting a useless message, you may need a new IT staff.
Windows XP Mode for Windows 7 purposefully comes with IE6 so you can use it for situations just like this if you need to. You can of course upgrade it to IE7/8 if you want to.
Also, All IEs after 6 can switch to 6's rendering engine using the IIE Dev Tools (IE7 requires them to be installed, IE8 and up bundles them) which may be sufficient to use the site.
If you can afford a Mac, or a computer newer than XP, you don't need to be sucking off the public teat.
That, my friend, is total nonsense. This site is for people getting benefits for disabilities etc. For example, I have a well-paying job. With some bad luck, I might get some illness that makes it impossible for me to drive a car. If I can't drive to work, I can't drive to work and lose my job. The UK benefits system would (possibly) pay to have me driven to work. Which is a lot, lot cheaper because of the taxes that I would continue paying than paying me unemployment benefits. In other words, people with disabilities might be in good jobs and have plenty of money while still receiving benefits.
IE 6 was designed to be unmigratable. No one disputes it, not even Microsoft. So the resulting years of monopolistic profit taking should be used to help develop software tools to migrate old html. If Microsoft did it on their own, everyone would praise them and say "it's the right thing to do".
I'm quite certain that the one that should be fried is the person writing the specs.
I know the system is crap, but that's a bit draconian... :-)
Anyway, in all seriousness, this story is (intentionally) trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, as it relates to a small (and obsolescent) number of benefits and the fact that an old system hasn't been properly updated for the better part of a decade.
Yes, it's utterly shite that the systems were written to be so specific to IE6 (and earlier versions') foibles that they don't even work with the half-decent later versions of IE, let alone any other browsers. Obviously if they hadn't been so short-sighted, they'd still be running (if somewhat dated looking) on modern browsers.
And yes, it sucks if you're one of the people still wanting to claim those benefits.
But it's a story about ancient software designed when IE-specific sites were still (unfortunately) the norm and a system that hasn't been updated for the few people still requiring it. I have to admit I thought at first that this was something about the JobCentre's system to track users' jobseeking using cookies only working on XP/IE6 or older, but it's nothing like that.
It's a fair story, but not the geek outrage article it's presented as.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Somebody should open an online virtualization service. It emulators XP/IE6 for you.
Allow me to ask you a question: What do you think would happen if we do what you suggest?
You're pretty much have the same situation as in Pakistan. Low taxes, everyone owns firearms, religion plays a strong role in society, drugs are legal, high military spending as a percentage of the GDP, etc. The question is how many Libertarians want to emigrate to Pakistan?
Bollox, in the UK it perfectly legal to film anything or anyone in a public place.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
the UK has republicans?
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
and therefore probably correct.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
It's actually not that new hearing how an online submission / program can't be ran on Linux or Mac and needs IE to run. When I was in school there was this online software called "Angel", to spite the fact it was a horrible pile of a software to begin with, the company wouldn't even talk with you if weren't using Windows. You can tell a lot about a developer simply by looking at how the software they develop, web and desktop, works across all the major platforms, including the kind of support they deliver. Any company who makes a web based product and wants to tell me it needs browser X on OS Y to run gives me the vibe that they have some pretty junior developers on staff or some really lazy and brain dead ones. I don't think it's acceptable to in this day and age segment programs and the Operating Systems they run on.
We tried it their way once. It was called "feudalism".
The article and summary ignore the fact that the systems is obviously older than Windows XP at the least. They cannot guarantee it will work on anything newer. Like any website or system designed for an older system... This is not news.
Bollox, in the UK it perfectly legal to film anything or anyone in a public place.
Indeed, however the mere fact that it is legal has not prevented the Police from arresting people for doing so, at least where filming the Police is concerned...
What does making people use Windows XP/IE6 have to do with web standards?
No. The replacement should be plain HTML forms. Nothing fancy, but something which works with every browser, be it IE6 or the newest Firefox or Chrome. Give it some nice CSS styling, but don't have it rely on anything but standard HTML forms. Do not depend on JavaScript. Do not depend on ActiveX. Do not depend on plugins. Do not depend on a certain browser.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Revolutions are an exception, not the rule, they don't happen with the majority support either.
Majority of people are employed under any system, majority of people don't need government growing and stealing from them under any system.
Also majority of people on welfare are only there because of the wrong incentives (due to theft, unauthorized power of government) not because they need to be on welfare.
Majority of people on welfare should be working, not sit on welfare.
The real benefactors of this type of propaganda that is in your head are the politicians who need the ever dependent class to exist and expand, because that's what expands the power of the politicians. The unemployed on welfare, the union thugs that are protected with government laws, a large part of the SS and Medicare recipients constitute an army for the politicians, who threw away the Law, the Constitution because they built that army.
An army of thugs, of chimps, of monkeys, a mob consisting of amoeba like animals that need to be kicked off their asses and into the world where they are not cuddled by the government that steals on their behalf, takes the 95% of the theft proceeds and throws the 5% to the mob in form of free bread and circuses.
Even if some of them are violent, that is what private security forces are for. In any case, all of this nonsense is created by the mob working to undermine the law and promote theft and redistribution. It cannot be stopped democratically, because democracy is what created it, it will only stop economically when the hydra will eat enough of its own tail that it will choke on it and die, that's how that regime will fall.
In the oubliette.
: PPPPPPPPPP
online drawing lessons
It's already institutionalized to the point where I'm ashamed of this country. Any society where the rich can steal everything that's not nailed down with utter impunity is an absolute shithole to live in at best and doomed to fail at the worst. How many wall street bankers have been prosecuted? If it were up to me they would be dragged out and literally crucified. There are more than enough resources to go around; the problem is the rich don't want to share. Income inequality in the USA is at the highest level it's been since the gilded age.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
Why the fuck does any working individual, who is getting robbed by the mob this way, why is even one of them is still left in these socialist nightmares of countries?
I'd like to know this too... Why are you still here?
Extra twist that I learned with the IRS' W-9 form. You fill that out on the version of Acrobat running on OS X you can't read all fields when viewed on the Acrobat version of Windows. Duh. So now I keep to versions of the W-9 now, one for Mac OS X (latest version) and one for Windows (XP, incidentally)
I am not, moved my business and moved myself over 3 years ago now, that's the entire point. People who want to work and be productive and not have their productivity stolen from them have to move, that's why trillions of dollars of capital savings left USA, which means so many of the productive jobs left, did you not notice? The jobs that USA still creates are all unproductive jobs, either government or various service sector jobs that require that more debt is inquired in order to pay for them, so they are a net economic drain on the system, they are increasing the trade deficit, not decreasing it, they eat resources for consumption, they don't allow resources to be saved in order to start production.
AFAIC anybody still starting businesses in USA either has serious government ties and relies on that to help them maintain a monopoly or they are just kidding themselves, they won't make it. Whoever still operates a business in USA better find buyers to whatever they produce somewhere outside of the States, because the dollar will collapse there will be no buyers inside the country, they better figure out how to export their products or services.
MY OTHER COMMENTS
Typical teabagger. Why don't you go fuck ayn rand's rotting carcass?
It would be easy and cheap for the website to provide links to one or more compact and easy to use live distros as a service to people running legacy systems. And I'm betting damned near everyone in the UK has access to a $0.10 blank CD and a computer with internet access and a CD burner - at a library, cafe, or friend's house if not at home.
As for learning a new system, what's to learn? Insert disc, boot computer, get something not terribly different than what you're used to. Plenty of distros mimic windows fairly well - and really all you need is to be able to push the button in the corner and have a list of programs pop up. Or better still have an "Internet" icon on the desktop - that's pretty common as well. Firefox is pretty much Firefox regardless of platform, and most other popular browsers aren't much different in terms of basic usage either. Sure if you want to use it as your daily computer there will be a learning curve, but that's mostly due to a difference in available programs than in the UI itself. It's really only when you get to customizing stuff that the UI differences reveal themselves, and most people don't do any sort of customization on Windows anyway.
Of course the real solution is for a government service portal to restrict itself to using bog-standard HTML that can be properly parsed by any web browser regardless of how old or modern it is. Well, maybe HTML3 or so, once the web had begun to take on it's current form. There's absolutely no justification for using any sort of vendor-specific extensions or other "blingy" features - this is a portal for people to access essential government services, not an attempt to impress potential customers with whiz-bang features and eye candy.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
The whole site is built on Siebel E-Systems, an old CRM system, which generates the pages. Seibel is more or less defunct, having been acquired by Oracle.
The code is spectacularly version-specific. The error messages in Javascript code on the site indicate how tightly coupled this code is to very specific quirks of older software:
In the current stage of pushed cyberwar, to use and force to use such insecure systems (that even Microsoft recognizes it should give a hint) is so cute, just asking everyone to be part of something bigger ...like a botnet. That it be in a government site on which depends (and must visit) a lot of people makes it a nice target.
Doing it in a country where you can be sued for running a proxy adds a little spice.
Seriously, the ability to make a web form that only works in ancient technology must take more effort than to do it correctly.
It is called "maintaining your living standard". Two taxi rides every day can amount to 3-4 thousand euros per year or more, depending on the distance. Which, given a "standard" well-paying job, amounts to a month's net salary (give or take). Losing a month's pay on transportation only is a lot, even if you are grossing 75k yearly, and your living standard is at stake. Which could mean a psychologist's bill in the long run (even more so, if you factor in your disability as well). So that small help from the community is a huge help for such people.
the UK has republicans?
Yes. They're a variation of craziness, largely on the left of politics, that feels the most important thing is changing the way the head of state is selected. (You know, instead of getting the economy moving properly again, things like that.)
There's also the equivalent of US Republicans; they're called Conservatives, and they're feeling rather worried by a minor party called UKIP right now (who could be likened to the Tea Party I suppose, but they're not the same; the details of politics really vary a lot between countries, even if the smell emanating from it doesn't change nearly so much).
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
Which is not going to stand you in good stead.
What if you only have an iPhone or an Android phone?
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Seriously, I saw this last week, before the Inquirer got their mitts on it. It was debunked in the first comment.
Producing is pointless if there is nobody to consume. Only with consumption a market is created for only then the produced goods have to be replaced by new goods. If you produce a ton of cheap cars it's useless if there is nobody to buy your car. The cars don't create a profit for you, quite the opposite, you have a lot of unsold cars that cost you money for production, for storage and of course for other expenses like protecting them, while there is NO profit from them. Until someone comes in and BUYS them.
This is what is lacking in the economy today. Someone to BUY the stuff that is produced. Someone to DEMAND goods and (even more so) services. The DEMAND is down, not the supply. Go into a store of your choice and tell me supplies are short. They're not. There is plenty of supply. There are tons of unsold goods. There are thousands of unemployed who'd love to sell you their workforce. There is simply nobody who would demand it. That's the problem of the current crisis. Rich people are clinging to their money because there is no sensible thing they could invest in. Nothing looks profitable. And with good reason, the only profitable projects are those that can sell. Which they cannot without demand.
Demand needs two things to be created: First of all, someone has to want a good or service. And second, he has to be able to afford it. Now, I think it's safe to assume that people still want the same things they did 6 years ago. Or at least pretty much the same or similar things. What's lacking is the ability to afford them.
We need more money on the demand side of the equation. What we're currently doing is pretty much the opposite of what is necessary.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Additionally, the evidence is easy to capture.
"Hey, asshole with Glass! I'm gonna beat the shit out of you!"
"Glass, record a video!"
Go ahead and assault someone wearing a head-mounted cloud-synced camera.
Until only a couple of years ago, Workcover payments here in South Australia required IE5 on a Mac. When I had a bit of a crack at them over it the response was "for security and compatibility". Bah! Funnily enough, changing the user agent setting in Safari to fake IE5 got you through the whole system without any issues.
This should cut down on claims payouts.
Have gnu, will travel.
Steve Jobs is that you?
I used to be
I'm honestly not certain if you're trolling or really that ignorant of reality.
Oh please. Reagan was the death knell for the middle class. It's all been downhill since that idiot got elected. Even his fellow republicans thought his economic policies were bullshit. Open your mouth and catch some of that nice warm golden trickle-down. Tastes good, doesn't it?
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
Yup, pretty much, it's a Britishism. Bollocks = balls. I'd the notion soon after seeing the usage that it rather referred to bull's balls - a way of saying bullshit, if you will, and just as crude. Oddly enough, "dog's bollocks" means about the opposite - in line with cat's pajamas (Br.: pyjamas), cat's whiskers, bee's knees....
Somedays it seems /. includes an episode of "Fun with Language" however unintentional. Trés amusant, nest pass?
Best suggestion I've seen today. (out of mod points)
"state wither away"
Oh, _now_ I get it: you're talking about communism. Interesting.
Quite often these forms will be filled in by agencies (usually charities) acting on behalf of the claimant.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
The http://www.dwp.gov.uk/eservice/ website appears to be way old! The source code says it was built 13 March 2006.
This complaint is similar to what I discovered this week trying to get topographic map data on-line! The U.S. Geological Survey does allow the public to get topographic map data, which we are entitled to as taxpayers, but they are in a closed source format that is mostly only usable on Windows. There are non-opensource readers, but the format itself and most of its readers are not open source. So data that was paid for by taxpayers is not available unless you use a proprietary platform. I have written e-mail to the national HG in Reston Va., asking for JPG images of the sheets, come to think of it, they could probably supply decent reproductions in ghostscript. If that turns out to be possible. I will make a request to the Interior Committee of Congress to force USGS to publish its on-line versions of maps in ghostscript.
Again blame Penny-Wise but Pound Foolish in legislatures the world over for cumbersome procurement processes that are intended to prevent fraud but result in leaving most government agencies left in the dust as technology passes them by, often leaving critical operations reliant on broken or unsupportable platforms.
I worked for USGS from 1976 to 1983 and left primarily because I was tired to asking the agency, the Geologic Division, to adopt UNIX. When I started there they had a Honeywell mainframe running Multics, so I learned about regular expressions and what would become ex inside vi before I had access to UNIX, so that wasn't a total loss. The earthquake research people were getting UNIX by 1980, but the rest of the agency was resisting.
Well I'm not trolling, and I don't think I'm terribly ignorant. What aspect of my post do you find so unbelievable?
That anyone with a computer and internet access has access to a CD burner?
That for trivial usage there exist Linux LiveCDs that will boot directly to an environment virtually identical to Windows?
Or that the first priority of a government service website should be maximum usefulness to as broad a swath of potential users as possible, even if that comes at the expense of minimaly-functional "bling" that breaks compatibility? (And which incidentally increases both creation and maintenance expenses to no good effect).
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
The fact that you find it likely that people in need of benefits are the people who have time, willing to spend the effort and have the ability to dig inside the intimate parts of their computers.
You're essentially the guy who sees people who don't have bread, and telling them to eat cake, then wonder why you look ignorant.
Who said anything about digging into the computer? - Dowload disc image, burn, reboot. Remove CD when you want your system back to normal. It wouldn't even be terribly difficult to create an executable iso-wrapper that includes a stripped-down disc image burner so that users can't screw up that step - then it's just download, run, reboot. Something even the most ignorant users can do, as attested by the mountain of crapware any non-techy accumulates.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
"Who said anything about baking? Just get the cake slapped together, put it in the oven, wait for it to finish and eat!"
This is because they are on Siebel 7.8.2.3. If they just installed the patch for 7.8.2.16, which includes support for all of this, then there would be no issue. The patch would only take a few hours of downtime so there's no excuse for this. These patches have been available for many years.
-CowboyNick