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Keyless Remote Entry For Cars May Have Been Cracked

WheezyJoe writes "The Today Show had a piece this morning showing video of thieves apparently using a small device to open and enter cars equipped with keyless entry. Electronic key fobs, which are supposed to be secure, are replacing keys in more and more new cars, but the evidence suggests that a device has been developed which effortlessly bypasses this security (at least on certain makes and models). 'Adding to the mystery, police say the device works on some cars but not others. Other surveillance videos show thieves trying to open a Ford SUV and a Cadillac, with no luck. But an Acura SUV and sedan pop right open. And they always seem to strike on the passenger side. Investigators don't know why.' Police and security experts say they are 'stumped.'"

398 comments

  1. just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was under the impression that these things were always vulnerable to replay attacks and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a master code as well.

    1. Re:just now? by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nah, it's just a tennis ball with a hole in it.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:just now? by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was under the impression that these things were always vulnerable to replay attacks and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a master code as well.

      See Rolling Code for why you are under the wrong impression. There might be a recent vulnerability, but for the vast extent of their history these kinds of systems have been safe against amateur tactics like simple radio tricks, and if there is a "Backdoor" code it has been a pretty well guarded secret.

    3. Re:just now? by Tuidjy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some are vulnerable to replay attacks, but Hondas (and Acuras, which are Hondas) most definitely should not be. There was an European study that used more than just simple replay attacks, and they found a dozen brands of remote devices that were susceptible. Hondas were not amongst them.

      This said, the article is retarded. I hope it's not the police officers' stupidity, but the authors'.

      1) Of course they will go for the passenger's door, you morons, that's where drivers leave their stuff, and that's where the glove compartment is. The thieves are not stealing the cars, they are burglarizing them.

      2) Of course, it will not work on all cars, you morons. The remotes use different protocols, and the thieves clearly have cracked Honda's. This will not help them much with Ford's.

      3) Ok... three I'll keep to myself. As a former law enforcement agent, I'm sure the officers know that one, and are keeping it close to their chest. The authors are still morons, though.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    4. Re:just now? by thunderclap · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This wasn't an amateur attack. This is security by obscurity. SMH. So they had it set to a high level of encryption like maybe 256. Computers are powerful enough now that it can be done with a short amount of time and patience. Thats what cops don't grasp. It was never hard to break in for someone skilled. It was time consuming. Yes it took someone who could roll crypto with program writing. How do you think, Iphones were jailbroken? Android rooted? DeCSS, and Blueray broken? Same way.
      Honestly. they wanted to steal without getting caught. Now They simply unlock the door and look around.
      The caveats are always the same. Never store valuables in your vehicle. Never assume its safe. Always be vigilant.

    5. Re:just now? by Tuidjy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, now that I have had two minutes to think about it, I have a theory.

      It may be that the thieves did not hack the remote, maybe they are triggering accident detection, which unlocks the doors. If I were a Honda engineer, this is what I would look at first.

      Hell, maybe Honda is even blameless. I know some car dealerships push poorly thought-out mods on their customers. I would check to see whether there isn't a local dealership that is peddling a 'safety' add-on.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    6. Re:just now? by cusco · · Score: 1

      You tease . . .

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    7. Re:just now? by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      it more than that now though as more and more cars come with keyless start were you just have to have fob within a certin proximity of the vehicle to start it, now that this has been cracked all that it will take for a car theif is a little bit of crypto know how and they will be able to take off with random cars off the street and no one will be the wiser as to the car it will appear as though its the correct fob so no security alert like when someone tries to hot wire it or open the lock with a coat hanger.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    8. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Dude, do you even have the slightest idea of what you are writing about ?

    9. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, iPhones weren't jailbroken with rolling 256 encryption smh obscurity decss hacks?

    10. Re:just now? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      The "old" security was that the time to break in must be taken at the car. You must jimmy the lock, use a coathanger, etc. The concerning ones are the ones where the time and skill can be honed privately, and the access is instant. You spend years making the fob in your garage against your own Acura. Then, find it works for all Acuras, but not Fords or GM. Borrow or buy another of those makes and keep honing. The time to break into the car is instantaneous, but it takes work to get to that point. The problem is that this break in is indistinguishable from a regular user.

    11. Re:just now? by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Informative

      So they had it set to a high level of encryption like maybe 256.

      There is so much wrong with that statement I dont even know where to begin.

      "Encryption" isnt the word you want for this, since sending a static, encrypted message would be highly vulnerable to a replay attack. You want "authentication", which if its using a rolling code can be highly secure. But assuming youre talking about a 256-bit key, thats still not something you can just throw out as a "we can crack this". How fast you can brute-force it depends on how long it takes to attempt one key; any sane system would limit it to 1 attempt per 0.5 seconds or something, which would make it utterly infeasible to brute-force.

      It was never hard to break in for someone skilled. It was time consuming.

      Technically all computer security is "easy" if you have an infinite length of time to work with, but we're talking about time scales in the billions of years with a lot of modern computer security. We have the ability to have perfectly secure systems, the flaws are often in the implementation. With simple systems (ie, only access through an RF signal), your chances of getting security right are a lot higher.

      Most of the things you listed are irrelevant. You are the owner of the device in all of those examples, so you must necessarily have all of the keys to access the content in question. Accessing a car is different; you need more than access to "the car" to break in unless you feel like disassembling the car, disassembling the internal computer, and reverse engineering the ROM chip inside.

    12. Re:just now? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      What if the authentication between car and key for doors is different than key to ignition? If they enter from the driver's side, the second authentication fails. Not saying I know, but there's more than one reason to go to the passenger side.

    13. Re:just now? by skelly33 · · Score: 2

      One of our cars has remote start - but it cannot be driven without inserting the key into the ignition. That may not be the case for all vehicles with this feature... but it should be.

    14. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats an awesome hack!

      I so badly want to try it.

    15. Re:just now? by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 3, Informative

      The key for my 2013 Ford Escape never leaves my pocket. When I touch the door handle it unlocks; I get in, step on the brake pedal, and press the Start button on the dashboard. Put it in gear and drive away.

      All you need is the key within so-many feet of the vehicle.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    16. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard it was set to such a high crypto level that they had to roll out their program writing in visual basic.

    17. Re:just now? by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          On your previous message, you got what the news failed to. The cars were all Honda, Acura being a division of Honda.

          Really, I wouldn't be surprised if it's what you're thinking. It may not be the trigger detection, but all kinds of other pesky things. It does seem to take close proximity to the passenger door handle. Otherwise, they'd just roll through parking lots to see which cars unlock.

          It would be really embarrassing for Honda if it turned out to be a simple ultrasonic emitter would trip up a sensor and unlock the door. :)

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    18. Re:just now? by JonBoy47 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It was actually nice when automakers rolled out RFID car keys about a decade ago, bringing two-factor authentication to the car's ignition. You needed a key with the right RFID, AND the correct mechanical cut to start the car. Two completely different systems had to be defeated to start the car, and it was difficult to do so without arousing suspicion. Now automakers are taking a step back in security, Not only is keyless ignition only single-factor authentication (relying on RFID exclusively), which makes it susceptible to remote attack, but it is also used to autonomously operate the door locks. A thief can steal a compromised car without any suspicious activity.

    19. Re:just now? by Falkentyne · · Score: 0

      So they had it set to a high level of encryption like maybe 256.

      There is so much wrong with that statement I dont even know where to begin.

      "Encryption" isnt the word you want for this, since sending a static, encrypted message would be highly vulnerable to a replay attack. You want "authentication", which if its using a rolling code can be highly secure. But assuming youre talking about a 256-bit key, thats still not something you can just throw out as a "we can crack this". How fast you can brute-force it depends on how long it takes to attempt one key; any sane system would limit it to 1 attempt per 0.5 seconds or something, which would make it utterly infeasible to brute-force.

      I know exactly where to begin: Wrong, parent was correct except I think it was higher encryptions like 512.

      It was never hard to break in for someone skilled. It was time consuming.

      Technically all computer security is "easy" if you have an infinite length of time to work with, but we're talking about time scales in the billions of years with a lot of modern computer security. We have the ability to have perfectly secure systems, the flaws are often in the implementation. With simple systems (ie, only access through an RF signal), your chances of getting security right are a lot higher.

      Most of the things you listed are irrelevant. You are the owner of the device in all of those examples, so you must necessarily have all of the keys to access the content in question. Accessing a car is different; you need more than access to "the car" to break in unless you feel like disassembling the car, disassembling the internal computer, and reverse engineering the ROM chip inside.

      Wrong again, take for instance a dog. 7 dog years = 1 human year. How many years would it be for a digital dog @ 4.4GHZ? Exactly. Your billions of years suddenly turned into seconds with digital dog decryptographic technique. Don't even get me started on applying quantumn mechanics to this because it would blow your mind. Is there a car, is there a key? Is it locked or unlocked?!

    20. Re:just now? by geekoid · · Score: 2

      I can open a car in under 5 seconds. faster then most people can with a key. And it isn't obtrusive.
      I can also get OTHER people to break into a car for me.

      The issue at hand can be fixed with authentication.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    21. Re:just now? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that the obvious solution is for the car manufacturers to offer a bug bounty. Then if someone builds a fob, they can collect the bounty instead of selling it to criminals and risking prison time.

    22. Re:just now? by bmxeroh · · Score: 1

      I heard in fact that it was a GUI interface in VB that allowed them to crack this.

      --
      Central Ohio Home Theater Installation - The Theater People
    23. Re:just now? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If you are going to go there, you should also look at the shielding on the control relays. Maybe the internal control signals are predictable, and the car, being poorly grounded, is susceptible to bursts of RF inducing the same unlock signal. Not unlike triggering a crash would be, but targeted directly at the door locks. Though, what's the operation of door unlocking if the alarm is set? For my car, if I set the alarm with the remote, unlocking a door from the inside and opening it will set off the alarm. The alarm is only disabled with a signal from the remote, so I'd assume these to work similarly. Does a crash disable the alarm? If so, I'd see more people whacking the front bumper with a sledgehammer before breaking a window and grabbing stuff out.

    24. Re:just now? by unencode200x · · Score: 2

      So have my last two cars. My newest vehicle (CLS 550) does have a "valet" feature that will alert you via email or text if it leaves an area you set. Mercedes can also track its location, supposedly.

      Definitely scary stuff, though as I'm one of those people who hates having things in my pockets and almost always leave my wallet in the car. Of course, I can see it from my office window and my house/garage are alarmed.

      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
    25. Re:just now? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      What, an expert at bumping? Doesn't that require key blanks that fit? You'd need a large pocket full of blanks to have good matches, and it'd take you more than those 5 seconds to find the one that fits, assuming you have a match in your pocket somewhere.

    26. Re:just now? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Actually, now that I have had two minutes to think about it, I have a theory.

      It may be that the thieves did not hack the remote, maybe they are triggering accident detection, which unlocks the doors. If I were a Honda engineer, this is what I would look at first.

      Hell, maybe Honda is even blameless. I know some car dealerships push poorly thought-out mods on their customers. I would check to see whether there isn't a local dealership that is peddling a 'safety' add-on.

      Still, even if it is a mod, Honda would still want to test the bejesus out of it.

      BTW, I know exactly what you're talking about with bad dealers, had one put a crappy mild steel cat-back on a Honda Integra that was 1/2 an inch too big for it just to make it louder, ended up melting the underside of the bumper and rusted within a year.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    27. Re:just now? by unencode200x · · Score: 1

      Perfect systems? They do not exist.

      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
    28. Re:just now? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      I can open a car in under 5 seconds. faster then most people can with a key. And it isn't obtrusive.

      I'm just gonna go ahead and call you out on this right now.

      A cop can't do that.
      A AAA guy can't do that.
      A mechanic can't do that.
      A locksmith can't do that.
      The car's manufacturer can't do that.
      You can't do that.

      Your options for getting in are:

      Pick the lock. Not quick and easy. Often obtrusive. No matter how much you practice, each time you go to a lock you're feeling your way around blindly. It takes the most skilled of nerds an average of 3 attempts to plug in a USB cable in the back of a host.

      Forcing the window down. Not quick and easy. Obtrusive.

      Using a coat hanger or slim jim to trip the door latch. Not quick and easy. Obtrusive.

      Smashing the window with a rock. Quick and easy. Very obtrusive.

      Hacking the remote entry system. Quick and easy once you set it up and test it at home. Unobtrusive.

      But please continue to sell us your bullshit about your 1337 skillz.

    29. Re:just now? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1, Insightful

      See Rolling Code for why you are under the wrong impression. There might be a recent vulnerability, but for the vast extent of their history these kinds of systems have been safe against amateur tactics like simple radio tricks, and if there is a "Backdoor" code it has been a pretty well guarded secret.

      Simple radio tricks can still work quite easily with rolling codes. Consider the following scenario:

      1. Jamming signal/recorder applied to victim arrival area.

      2. Victim arrives using key fob to open doors. Jaming signal prevents automatic door open or close from registering. Victim opens and closes doors manually before walking off to their destination.

      3. Attacker subtracts recorded fob signal from jamming signal and recovers unused open command.

      4. Attacker replays unused command while vicitim is away.

    30. Re:just now? by AaronLS · · Score: 3, Informative

      I would be surprised if the majority of keyless entry was RFID. It may be that the vulnerable ones use this, but RFID is not in anyway a form of authorization. It is a form of identification. The difference is your username and your password. Anyone should be able to get the RFID and be no closer to accessing the system, just as your username is not private information and is fairly useless without the password. Their are lots of easy and inconspicuous ways to steal an RFID because it's just their saying "HEY, I'm 157951234654..." and anything can read that ID and then easily masquerade as that RFID.

      A proper keyless system uses cryptography(and does so properly). This is why many FOBS are quite expensive to replace and have a battery inside. When you attempt to unlock the vehicle, the vehicle sends a challenge to the FOB, and the FOB uses a private key to sign it, the vehicle then gets that signed response and verifies it using the public key. I know that my FOB uses a 40bit key, which isn't very strong. Hopefully the vehicle has delays in place to prevent someone from trying thousands of keys a second, otherwise it could be broken with brute force given the small key size. This would still take a good while though.

      It's possible that some of these vehicles are vulnerable if someone got their hands on a database of public keys(or worse private keys), from which you could spend time searching for the private keys through brute force and build up a database of the private keys, and then load that list onto a portable device the masquerades as a FOB.

      There's lots of possibilities.

    31. Re: just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hey dude, you better check the driveway.

    32. Re:just now? by AaronLS · · Score: 1

      " 7 dog years = 1 human year. How many years would it be for a digital dog @ 4.4GHZ?"

      The same amount of time as it would be for a digital human. Changing the units of measurement does not turn years into seconds, it's still the same length of time. You are so blatantly stupid, yet think you are qualified to tell people they are wrong regarding things you obviously possess only a pseudoscience knowledge of... is the only thing that is mind blowing.

    33. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A stun gun held close to the piezo sensor may set off the collision detection. The amplifier connected to the sensor has a very high impedance input that you could very well trigger using the created RFI.

    34. Re:just now? by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      OnStar, CarShield - likely others. Maybe one of them has an exploit and comes standard on some trim packages.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    35. Re:just now? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      A little over a decade ago, I went to visit my sister. I parked my car and locked my door. When I did so, though, I heard a second car beep. Sure enough, every time I locked my car, a car across the street (not the same make or model, by the way) would unlock. Now, it could have been a huge coincidence that I parked my car near another car that had the same access code, but exactly how big of a coincidence could that have been? How big a pool do they choose those access codes from?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    36. Re:just now? by unrtst · · Score: 1

      Just saying they can't doesn't make it so. It doesn't make GP true either, but there are so few details/parameters here that I'm sure it's absolutely true for some people with some vehicle models.

      My own story is that I unlocked three different cars with just a coat hanger when I was only 13 or so and it only took me 15-20 minutes. I was a complete noob to it and was just helping a friend who locked themselves out, but was able to do it. One of those times, I picked a set of keys up off the seat with a coat hanger and pulled them through the window (damaging the lining... keys were locked in the old beat up pick up).

      I'm sure someone who knew what they were doing with the right tools can pop open an older car/truck in moments, and it wouldn't surprise me if a pro could do most new cars almost as quickly (the tennis ball trick does work on a lot of models too).

    37. Re:just now? by Grog6 · · Score: 1

      If this works the way it seems to work, it would seem to be a backdoor attack.

      A car's security system will disable after some number of wrong attempts, for a length of time, usually ~30 seconds.

      A device that pretty much instantly works is a "master" code.

      Most governments require backdoors, so this is probably a leak of Law Enforcement devices.

      --
      Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    38. Re:just now? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      The car alarm will still go off for any of those, except for hacking the remote entry system, and the immobilizer will prevent the car from going anywhere.

      Clearly, on reading this, I will continue to only use cars that have RFID transponders in the key itself and won't go anywhere without the key in the ignition.... I may have to stop leaving the expensive sunglasses in the car, is all.

    39. Re:just now? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      That bounty would have to be pretty high to have any chance of succeeding. 7 figures at least, I would think... Stealing cars, especially high end cars with no damage at all, can be extremely profitable.

    40. Re:just now? by Time_Ngler · · Score: 1

      So tell me Mr. Crypto Wizard, is "512" twice as much encryption as "256"? If a dog can crack a "256" key in one day, how fast can a 4.4 GHz dog crack a "512" key? (Please, others that have a clue, don't respond. I'm trying to enjoy the humor in the ridiculousness of this)

    41. Re:just now? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      It wasn't a rolling code system then.
      With a rolling code remote the receiver has to learn the transmitter, which has a unique code set at the factory. Every time you press the button a counter is incremented. Some secret algorithm is applied to this counter and the unique code and the output is what is transmitted.
      The receiver has the same algorithm and if it knows the unique code and the counter value it can verify the transmitted code is correct.
      If the receiver is out of sync and doesn't have the correct value for the counter it has several options. It can try the transmitted code with a series of counter values, under the assumption the remote was used while out of range and it counter is a few digits off or it can refuse the code and wait for the next attempt. Using a different 'secret' algorithm the receiver can use the unique code and two of the transmitted codes to recreate the current value of the counter.

      Not all manufatures of rolling code techology use the same algorithms but they're all along the same principal.

      If I had to guess as to what the car thieves have done is they have discovered a vulerability in a specific manufactures implementation, so all car manufactures/models that use the same keyless entry system are vulnerable.
      They've either discovered a bug in the receiver so they don't require previous knowledge or they've discovered the algorithms used and have recovered previous transmissions by the car owners and have come back later after discovering the unique if of their keyfob.

    42. Re:just now? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Collision detection is usually done via an accelerometer. My car has one in between the front seats to detect head on impacts and deploy the air bags.

      I guess cars with curtain airbags would have sensors in the doors, but if they were being triggered why aren't the airbags going off?

      Perhaps there is a water sensor in doors to unlock in case the car gets submerged. That would allow someone to rescue a person stuck inside a car. Maybe the thieves are squirting water in the key holes or something.

    43. Re:just now? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      If you want to steal a car, you go for the drivers door.
      If you want to rob it, you go for the passenger door. The glovebox is there, people usually hide stuff under the passenger seat too, not the drivers one. You have more room to rip out stereos etc if you feel the need, with no steering wheel to get in the way. Its usually the door next to the footpath when parallel parked as well.

    44. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Older cars (and it wouldn't surprise me if newer cars from cheap-ass behind-the-times manufacturers like Ford) only used a 6 to 10-bit trinary code.

    45. Re:just now? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      Some models of newer cars don't have physical keys at all. There's just an electronic widget.

    46. Re:just now? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      And the thieves don't have to crack your code. Instead, the buy a device that will open many many cars.

    47. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't looked recently but Japanese auto manufacturers used to mount the ECU/car computer module in the back of the glove box. If these guys are synchronising with RF signals from the computer so that they can send a fake code or trigger the accident detection that would be why they're always on the passenger side.

    48. Re:just now? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Why do the thieves need help with Fords? There are plenty of Hondas to rob.

    49. Re:just now? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      All you need is the key within so-many feet of the vehicle.

      Great... so as soon as you get within X feet of your car, some crook can just dash in front of you; pop open your door, start er up, and then drive off.

      Or if you accidentally leave your purse in the car after you get home, with your keys in it... one of your kids can get in and start the car, since the key is still within X feet?

    50. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two completely different systems had to be defeated to start the car, and it was difficult to do so without arousing suspicion.

      Except that thieves still wanted to steal cars, and so went after drivers to get the keys.

    51. Re:just now? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      My newest vehicle (CLS 550) does have a "valet" feature that will alert you via email or text if it leaves an area you set. Mercedes can also track its location, supposedly.

      And this is not a privacy concern? Why?

      If Mercedes can track you... you know the government can require access to that data held by a 3rd party, with just a request.

      They don't even need a warrant, and nothing prevents them from sharing this data with other companies or other members of the public, who might not have your best interests at heart....

      Of course... one of the biggest concerns, is that crooks could discover when noone's at home, by getting real time tracking data on all the vehicles (e-mail account compromise would be ideal -- and the /legitimate/ alerts could be a dead giveaway).

      In that case, they would know that they have plenty of time to work slowly and disable any alarm or other security measures, before breaking in, that might otherwise be a strong deterrant.

    52. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Law enforcement agents have their own system to override car door locks?

    53. Re:just now? by Dahan · · Score: 1

      No, the key has to be inside the passenger compartment to start it.

    54. Re:just now? by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      Seems to be a implementation issue with certain manufacturers. Rolling codes are reasonably secure and have been for a while.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    55. Re:just now? by anubi · · Score: 1

      If a delay of 1 second was required after each failed start attempt, would this make it take so long to roll through the codes as to make it too time consuming to do it? Or maybe after ten failed start attempts, force a 30 second wait?

      The "bad guy" may have a laptop with a repurposed GPU just for cracking rolling codes, but if we slow his communication to a drunken stutter, he's going to have to wait a long time before he gets his reward - he'd come out better getting a job and buying the car outright.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    56. Re:just now? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Most governments require backdoors,

      I believe this is where wikipedia inserts a [citation required], or simply flags it as "Weasel Words".

      Thats such an unbelievably vague and broad claim that Im surprised you thought you could get away with it.

    57. Re:just now? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      That bounty would have to be pretty high to have any chance of succeeding. 7 figures at least, I would think... Stealing cars, especially high end cars with no damage at all, can be extremely profitable.

      I think it is unlikely that the guy stealing the car is the same guy who developed the fob. The fob developer is probably getting only a small slice, especially since he is taking no risk and likely living in India or China. Also, anybody with the fob could turn it in for the reward, not just the developer.

    58. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually this is not two-factor authentication, two different implementations of a single-factor is still one factor authentication:
      * The RFID is "what you have"
      * The key is "what you have"

      Also websites have been adding "Security Questions/Answers" to there normal password authentication. This does not actually add a factor either:
      * The password is "what you know"
      * Security Question/Answers is "what you know" actually it is worse it is "what everyone knows about you".

      I also want to mention that the other factor "who you are" is very difficult to check because it is easy to use a replay attack (disguises) when you do not have a human (guard) check it. Biometrics is useful if the guard needs to protect a resource that may be accessed by many people he may not know (or is even allowed to know).
      * Fingerprints (the guard has to check the finger and he needs to guide the finger physically on the scanner).
      * Iris scan (the guard needs to check if the accessor doesn't have contact lenses in)

    59. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Mercedes can track you... you know the government can require access to that data held by a 3rd party, with just a request.

      I agree that it's a privacy concern that a vendor of a consumer item can track you with your purchase, but why would you be more worried about the government tracking you than you would be about Mercedes tracking you?

      They don't even need a warrant, and nothing prevents them from sharing this data with other companies or other members of the public, who might not have your best interests at heart....

      Where do you live? Nth Korea?!

      Apart from all of the above being inapplicable to those of us who live in modern liberal democracies subject to the rule of law, what possible motivation would a government (even in the dictatorship you live) have for "sharing this data.". Doesn't make sense.

    60. Re:just now? by mike.mondy · · Score: 1

      No, the key has to be inside the passenger compartment to start it.

      My sister reports that her car started just fine with the keys on the roof or hood. Not that they stayed there after the car started moving...

      You already (should) be buckling a seat/shoulder belt. That's more effort than putting a key in a key hole. So, I don't see that the risks of keyless entry *and* starting make up for the minor convenience of not having to use a key. YMMV.

    61. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction, KeeLoq uses 64 bit keys.

    62. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The upsides include plausible deniability:

      Police officer: We have recovered your car, which was totalled when it crashed into a lamppost in the carpark of the strip club near the airport at 4am last night.
      Car owner: The crypto bandits strike again! Bastards!

    63. Re:just now? by terminal.dk · · Score: 1

      I also noticed, that it does not seem to work from afar, so for certain not a keyfob hack.

      My guess is they use an electromagnetic field in some way to unlock the car. Can they use induction to create the unlock doors signal on the CAN bus ? Or is it shielded enough ? There is holes in the door plate near the (plastic?) handle
      Or physically move something in the lock ?

      We don't know if they have larger batteries on their body. But certainly not a keyfob attack.

    64. Re:just now? by rapiddescent · · Score: 1

      my thought was that the ECU is usually in the passenger footwell and perhaps they are able to open the doors but not start the engine without an ECU mod; either a piggyback board or indeed complete replacement ECU.

    65. Re:just now? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that wasn't done? I never suggested the length of time required or the amount of skill required. I simply said it could be done.
      As to Authentication and RFID yes I did ignore that. My bad. Obviously they found a way around them.
      The point I was making is if you truly want to break something, you will. No one will stop you from entirely disabling and extracting all the roms from a modern car,. viewing them on a Oscilloscope, doing the same to a key fob and rolling a program. Is it insane? yes. Is it time consuming? Yes, Will it achieve the objective? YES.
      As for irrelevancy, I disagree. No one could break the Iphone until someone rolled the program. I seem to remember that one jailbreak actually required soldering a point inside the Phones board.
      The difference is people are jailbreaking others phones. If they did, we would have a crap load of celebrity pron. yet we don't.
      As for the scales of Billions of years not true. You can chain enough processor power and pull that down. Remember the govt wants in to all your stuff too. Also Bitcoin for another example.
      What most likely happened? Acura or Honda had a bug or a flaw in their implementation and someone discovered it. Either hardware or software they did. Back tot the orginial post. never rely on Security by Obscurity. It will always be broken.

    66. Re:just now? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Most governments require backdoors,

      So do most Porn companies. At least they get more pleasure out of them.

    67. Re:just now? by Whalou · · Score: 1
      In the case of my car, a Mitsubishi Lancer:
      • To unlock the door, the key needs to be within 2 feet of the handle, same with the trunk
      • To start the car, the key needs to be inside
      • If you try to lock the doors (by pressing the button on the door handle, while the key is inside, it beeps and the door won't lock
      --
      English is not this .sig mother tongue...
    68. Re: just now? by cualexander · · Score: 1

      My car is a Nissan Maxima and the problem with this is that I've accidentally left the key in the car in the console under the radio and the car locked because the key fob lost contact with the car for a few seconds. So even though it wasn't supposed to be possible to lock yourself out of the car, it has happened to me twice. I just use the real key now. The wireless keys are solving a problem I never had and causing more problems for me.

    69. Re:just now? by nukenerd · · Score: 1
      Jason Levine wrote :

      A little over a decade ago, ... every time I locked my car, a car across the street would unlock.

      About that time, my boss (who had the usual boring company car in the usual colour) returned to a large car park, thought he found his car, and unlocked it with the remote. He was actually sitting in the drivers seat before he realised it was not his car.

    70. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that these devices don't even require the owner to press any buttons, but merely be near the car, I can think of one rather easy radio trick:

      Build a radio repeater which receives the signal from the car and retransmits it on some other frequency to a second device which then retransmits the signal on the original frequency. Obviously you'll want to do the reverse as well to allow two-way communication between the car and it's magic key chain token. Now all you do is wait for someone with a nice car to show up, at which point you send a friend to follow him with one of these devices, then once the owner is out of sight, you walk over to his car, the doors unlock, and you get inside and press the start engine button.

    71. Re:just now? by inasity_rules · · Score: 1

      Except, if this were the case, how would your spare key work? Removed from the vehicle, it will not roll over..

      I am not an expert here, but I suspect there is some two way communications going on. The vehicle asks for for code number x, which the key must supply correctly sort of thing.

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    72. Re:just now? by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      Just saying they can't doesn't make it so. It doesn't make GP true either, but there are so few details/parameters here that I'm sure it's absolutely true for some people with some vehicle models.

      "No smoke without fire" fallacy. GGP is posting to Slashdot rather than living the high life in St. Tropez, so I think it's fair to say he's full of shit.

    73. Re:just now? by goodmanj · · Score: 1

      it would seem to be a backdoor attack.

      Well, passenger side door, apparently.

    74. Re:just now? by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Wrong again, take for instance a dog. 7 dog years = 1 human year. How many years would it be for a digital dog @ 4.4GHZ? Exactly. Your billions of years suddenly turned into seconds with digital dog decryptographic technique. Don't even get me started on applying quantumn mechanics to this because it would blow your mind. Is there a car, is there a key? Is it locked or unlocked?!

      Hah, you just made my day. That was a good one.

    75. Re:just now? by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Except, if this were the case, how would your spare key work? Removed from the vehicle, it will not roll over..

      I am not an expert here, but I suspect there is some two way communications going on. The vehicle asks for for code number x, which the key must supply correctly sort of thing.

      Multi-key support is maintained by the processor in the car, it simply assumes that any new key being paired goes in the "next" slot, and they often have 4 slots or so. Each received transmission is checked until it matches the right code (the computer has no problem checking each key slot 256 times or so) or is thrown away. You are right that there must be a two-way handshake of some sort at some point in the system's life, and this is essentially what is done when the car is put in programming mode (a special sequence of key position changes in the ignition, usually). From that point on, the PRNG in the key and the car move in lock step, and no one but those two parties know what the "next" key is (without a pretty significant amount of intercepted data and CPU horsepower).

    76. Re:just now? by JBHarris · · Score: 1

      #3 - The passenger door has more fingerprints on it than the driver-door. It is no secret.

    77. Re:just now? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      But there is some science, but not much. Go to eBay and search on key reprogrammers for MB, BMW, and Mini. They use a field coil to program the key, after the security code has been read from the ODB2 connector.

      What's wrong in taking the signal in the field coil and overwhelming the receiver inside the car with a strong signal, or set of signals that is the delta of codes generated to make keys? The delta can't be huge, maybe a few million of them. How long does it take to go thru the list until POP goes the lock? A little science, but in the end, real hacking is science but also intuition and just plain tenacity.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    78. Re:just now? by inasity_rules · · Score: 1

      Makes sense...

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    79. Re:just now? by j-beda · · Score: 1

      That bounty would have to be pretty high to have any chance of succeeding. 7 figures at least, I would think... Stealing cars, especially high end cars with no damage at all, can be extremely profitable.

      You don't need to convince the "bad guy hackers" to send in the fix, you just need to encourage any "good guy hacker" to send it in. Yes, the "underworld" might pay more for the info, but most people do not have contacts with them, while a bug bounty program is easily found and you have a reasonable expectation that you will get paid and little risk that you might end up in jail.

    80. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you live? Nth Korea?!

      Apart from all of the above being inapplicable to those of us who live in modern liberal democracies subject to the rule of law, what possible motivation would a government (even in the dictatorship you live) have for "sharing this data.". Doesn't make sense.

      That's incredibly rich, particularly since this story was shortly followed by this one: "Rick Zeman writes "According to Wired, an order by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court '...requires Verizon to give the NSA metadata on all calls within the U.S. and between the U.S. and foreign countries on an "ongoing, daily basis" for three months.' Unlike orders in years past, there's not even the pretense that one of the parties needed to be in a foreign country. It is unknown (but likely) that other carriers are under the same order."

      So much for rule of law. As for motivation, you're correct that most people would never notice any negative impact from this. On the other hand, if you happen to be one of the unlucky innocents who somehow runs athwart the government ...

    81. Re:just now? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      I never suggested the length of time required or the amount of skill required. I simply said it could be done.

      Right, and the way you said it makes it clear that you arent in a position to make those sorts of declarations. This isnt hollywood, just because something exists doesnt mean that it is possible to crack its security in human timeframes.

      The point I was making is if you truly want to break something, you will

      Oh OK. Tell that to the governments who were asking Blackberry some way to crack BES (not BIS) traffic, only to be told "it cant be done". Or China, who currently tries to block OpenVPN traffic because its not really breakable. Or any court case where forensics has a truecrypted drive and cant get any further because they dont have the keys.

      I seem to remember that one jailbreak actually required soldering a point inside the Phones board.

      The only way to get that level of access in a car is to disassemble the whole thing. Once you have done that "breaking into the car" is sort of irrelevant.

      Not to be harsh but you really dont know what you are talking about. You are speculating and making statements about things that you have only the most rudimentary knowledge about.

    82. Re:just now? by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      See Rolling Code for why you are under the wrong impression. There might be a recent vulnerability, but for the vast extent of their history these kinds of systems have been safe against amateur tactics like simple radio tricks, and if there is a "Backdoor" code it has been a pretty well guarded secret.

      I have wondered how the rolling code stays in sync if you ever press your key fob while out of range. The code would increment to the next one and the car would still be expecting a different one. I haven't found an answer to how this works in a quick Google search, do you or anyone here know how that is handled?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    83. Re:just now? by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Just saying they can't doesn't make it so. It doesn't make GP true either, but there are so few details/parameters here that I'm sure it's absolutely true for some people with some vehicle models.

      "No smoke without fire" fallacy. GGP is posting to Slashdot rather than living the high life in St. Tropez, so I think it's fair to say he's full of shit.

      Maybe he is posting to Slashdot from his high life in St. Tropez! Ever think of that?

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    84. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So have my last two cars. My newest vehicle (CLS 550) does have a "valet" feature that will alert you via email or text if it leaves an area you set. Mercedes can also track its location, supposedly.

      "Trust me. I'm a professional."

    85. Re:just now? by Dr_Terminus · · Score: 1

      Actually, it sounds like its more of a passenger door attack...

    86. Re:just now? by DriveDog · · Score: 1

      Just a coincidence they named it "Escape"?

    87. Re:just now? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      I have wondered how the rolling code stays in sync if you ever press your key fob while out of range. The code would increment to the next one and the car would still be expecting a different one. I haven't found an answer to how this works in a quick Google search, do you or anyone here know how that is handled?

      Wikipedia says that the receiver usually checks a 256 code range for the received signal in case it missed some clicks. That seems like it would eventually work it's way out of sync though.

    88. Re:just now? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      No. He probably lives in the USA or a western european country, where warrantless tracking is setting serious self-justifying precedence.

    89. Re:just now? by Samizdata · · Score: 1

      See Rolling Code for why you are under the wrong impression. There might be a recent vulnerability, but for the vast extent of their history these kinds of systems have been safe against amateur tactics like simple radio tricks, and if there is a "Backdoor" code it has been a pretty well guarded secret.

      I have wondered how the rolling code stays in sync if you ever press your key fob while out of range. The code would increment to the next one and the car would still be expecting a different one. I haven't found an answer to how this works in a quick Google search, do you or anyone here know how that is handled?

      Pretty simple. Only increment the counter if the fob gets an "unlock successful" pingback from the car.

      --
      It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage. - Colonel Henry Walton Jones, Jr., Ph.D.
    90. Re: just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just change the battery in the fob. If you put your keys in your pockets a lot, the button gets pressed down and drains the battery.

    91. Re:just now? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      And you seem to be missing the entire point. You seem to think I am talking about breaking into someones car first. So to clarify. I am not. This is why I am using Iphone jailbreaking as an example. If someone wants to break into an acura the most logical solution is by the car and the fob! Hello! To access all other cars one would obviously need both the car and the way to get into it! Dudes popped open the doors did it one of three ways.
      1. Its their car
      2. They defeated the locking mechanism
      3. or they used a key
      Obvious one and thee are false. To defeating the computer system you need all the components. That includes a car. Yes, someone can actually disassemble a car, Since by your post you don't believe that, I can't help you. I would expect nothing less.
      Also, I actually know a lot more about the subject than you do because:
      www dot engadget dot com slash 2010 slash 03 slash 09 slash 1024 dash bit dash rsa dash encryption dash cracked dash by dash carefully dash starving dash cpu dash of dash ele
      If China truly wants to restrict they can. They don't want too. They want to control information about themselves which isn't possible. With the internet its either off or on. There is no middle ground. Besides VPNs are just as hackable. Need I post a YOUtube of it? I can. As for BES, RIM is dying. BES is pretty much irrevalent to most hackers because its 1%. Its like windows phone, i can be done but why?. However to answer your question, Can it be hacked, yes, Opensecurity talks about it.
      Our govt and most others uses archaic computers systems and is Dumb. Do I expect them to be able to? Also NSA wanted to just to collect info for the purpose of collecting info so of course you tell them no
      Finally, I take it you were unaware of the court case where first the guy suspected of Child porn doesn't have to open his drive because they asked (it was true crypt) The after the cops do actually decrypt a drive and find evidence suddenly the judge orders him to open the others.

      Finally I'm being harsh either but you are unwilling to believe what is staring you in the face. It can be done and done now. All encyption can be broken easily. It requires raw computational power. I am not talking the 'hacking the gibson' bullshit either.
      As of 2003 RSA Security claims that 1024-bit RSA keys are equivalent in strength to 80-bit symmetric keys, 2048-bit RSA keys to 112-bit symmetric keys and 3072-bit RSA keys to 128-bit symmetric keys. RSA claims that 1024-bit keys are likely to become crackable some time between 2006 and 2010 and that 2048-bit keys are sufficient until 2030. An RSA key length of 3072 bits should be used if security is required beyond 2030.[6] NIST key management guidelines further suggest that 15360-bit RSA keys are equivalent in strength to 256-bit symmetric keys.
      I dont believe those cars were encrypted with 2048. I believe they were 512. So please go off some where with your troll like behavior. If you want to have a intelligent discussion on cryptography awesome, otherwise, GTFO because you obviously aren't keeping up or doing research because I can back up all my statements with hard facts from reputable sources as I have worked in the industry.

    92. Re:just now? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      according to RSA 40bit keys were crackable in 2010. To not be crackable without a massive amount of computational power (chained supercomputers for the obvious idiots here) it needs to 112 bits.

    93. Re:just now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is probably RFID for the detection of proximity while the actual challenge/authentication uses an onboard powersource in the key/device.

    94. Re:just now? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      The caveats are always the same. Never store valuables in your vehicle. Never assume

      ... that a thief isn't going to put a brick through the window.

      Once they can see something valuable enough to be worth the risk of getting caught, the glass is going to go and the dude is going to be off down the road with the goodies. Or if it's the car that is valuable enough, it's going to go onto the back of a tow truck (itself stolen, perhaps).

      That's nothing to do with key-less systems.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    95. Re:just now? by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      I do. And considering Snowden's revelation, do you really think still is beyond the pale?

    96. Re:just now? by unencode200x · · Score: 1

      Yes, these are concerns.

      I do live in the US where they track the heck out of everyone anyway. However, I actually came from a communist country where there is much fear of the government and people are afraid to speak up. People who do have been known to disappear, etc.

      What really bugs me is the common retort "if you have nothing to hide..." Well, why not just strip search everyone (which they basically do at airports), or put a police officer in everyone's house. Or stick a chip in everyone, or start tracking people's thoughts....

      All that being said... there's nothing like a Mercedes V8. Can't get it w/o the tracking. Also if my wife or I were in an accident or an emergency it would help. The concierge service (where you can call in and get directions, etc.) is also very useful for someone like me that travels a lot.

      --

      Chance favors the prepared mind.
      Perfect is the enemy of good.
  2. Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Haven't we seen proof of concept hacks of these kinds for a while?

    Also, "adding to the mystery", also my ass. Different keyfobs work with different algorithms and protocols. Someone's hacked a particular subset of them.

    1. Re:Stumped my ass by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny

      Haven't we seen proof of concept hacks of these kinds for a while?

      Also, "adding to the mystery", also my ass. Different keyfobs work with different algorithms and protocols. Someone's hacked a particular subset of them.

      Maybe the car is sentient, hates the current own and wants to be stolen.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Stumped my ass by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, the fact that it works only on certain makes/models, if anything, makes it much less mysterious. Compromises that exploit particular broken implementations of a cryptosystem are by far the most common kind of vulnerability, more common than fundamental breaks of a cryptosystem. If this device is opening only certain kinds of Hondas, it's likely Honda screwed up its implementation in at least some models.

    3. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Also, "adding to the mystery", also my ass. Different keyfobs work with different algorithms and protocols. Someone's hacked a particular subset of them.

      The linked article on Today is horrible. They also talk over and over about how "The Police" are stumped. As if "The Police" was some kind of borg mind. Better articles with more facts and less made up stuff can be found. It's the Long Beach Police Department, btw.

    4. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems like that is the case. Altho one of the cars in the video on this it looks like the guy is just walking down the rows as he looks like he is about to walk by the car and has to backpedal a little. I do have to say I think passenger side is just easier for the thief. They aren't stealing the car they just want anything easy to grab and sell later which means glove box and any up from pockets where a driver might throw money or a cell phone.

    5. Re:Stumped my ass by chuckinator · · Score: 5, Interesting

      An older engineer I worked with once told me a story about a car manufacturer (don't remember which one) using the CAN bus to control the side view mirrors. Well, the CAN bus is an electrical bus without any form of authentication or security, and car thieves started to make a habit of busted off one of the side mirrors and issuing the unlock doors message on the bus. Note that the authenticity of this story is what you should expect from typical water cooler gossip.

    6. Re:Stumped my ass by optikos · · Score: 5, Funny

      They also talk over and over about how "The Police" are stumped. As if "The Police" was some kind of borg mind.

      Well, The Police did put out an album entitled Ghost in the Machine, so perhaps that qualifies as Borg-Lite.

    7. Re:Stumped my ass by Amouth · · Score: 4, Interesting

      that was a Volvo, everything uses the same damn bus

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    8. Re:Stumped my ass by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      All it takes is once.

    9. Re:Stumped my ass by greg1104 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Most manufacturers outside of the German cars are using systems developed by KeeLoq, so a vulnerability in that would impact a large number of vehicles. Parts of the encryption method have been attacked by researchers, with papers like How To Steal Cars. Some of these papers point out that the exact security mechanisms used by manufacturers on top of KeyLoq's hardware are not public, so turning the theoretical hacks into a working device is still hard even with these issues identified. Based on that FAQ, KeeLoq itself seems secure against anything but very knowledgeable attackers with significant resources--they're quoting months of work to find a real-world vulnerability. However, we can't be sure that a specific implementation of the security approach wasn't weakened by a manufacturer mistake. I wouldn't place a large bet on that though. Someone like a car manufacturer wants to be able to say they passed the risk to someone expert in this area. If they start customizing things to add back doors, they're going to lose any ability to blame KeeLoq if there's a nasty vulnerability.

    10. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      car thieves started to make a habit of busted off one of the side mirrors.

      Uh, if you're going to bust something to open the door, wouldn't it be easier to just make the something a window?

    11. Re:Stumped my ass by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      That's because Volvos drive like a bus. And yes, I have driven an 850 turbo (the common "you only drove a 240" whine being addressed by that).

    12. Re:Stumped my ass by mjwx · · Score: 4, Funny

      Borg-Lite.

      Same great assimilation, only one calorie.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    13. Re:Stumped my ass by guruevi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have wondered myself recently too if it were at all possible. Someone was trying to open a rather expensive car in a parking lot (forgot keys or whatever, security was helping too so not a burglary) - I thought, if you can just pop the hood (you can open a hood with simple tools) and connect to one of the busses, can't you just tell the car to unlock by sending a message on it. It's most likely on a CAN or I2C bus, something open-y enough that you can just get a generic system for most cars. An Arduino could probably do it.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    14. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CAN bus is by default an encrypted platform. The unencrypted functions (stereo, mirrors, lighting, indicators/brake lights) run on a separate LAN and does not interact with ignition, but I reckon my Holden Calais (A GM product) connects the door mech to the unencrypted bus.

      The problem is - how to send a control message on the LAN? You need a two-way handshake to do that.

    15. Re:Stumped my ass by sexconker · · Score: 1

      that was a Volvo

      No, that's from sitting on the copier.

    16. Re:Stumped my ass by Vreejack · · Score: 1

      I suspect it is possible to quickly open the side mirrors without actually breaking them, and without triggering an alarm.

      --
      "Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
    17. Re:Stumped my ass by swb · · Score: 1

      You haven't driven an S80 V8, have you?

    18. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe that is the reason, just as likely is that the RF system contains a specific flaw.
      Or perhaps even more likely is that the thieves work for a particular dealership or know someone who does. Those cars are then being tracked and targeted.

    19. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'll bet each manufacturer has a master code that's given to the repo boys.

    20. Re:Stumped my ass by Grog6 · · Score: 1

      But if you're assimilated, you Give the calories. :)

      --
      Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    21. Re:Stumped my ass by Amouth · · Score: 1

      I had an S80 T6, i will say that is one of the best road trip cars i've ever driven. and overall performance wise it wasn't bad. but it was one of the worst built POS's i've ever seen.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    22. Re:Stumped my ass by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Nope. I've not driven a Volvo in 10 years. The S80 V8 didn't exist 10 years ago. Looks like it came out 2006. Their top of the line was shit from 1980 to 2000, so no, I don't hold any high hopes that they completely changed their core philosophy and priorities in the past 5 years. Why, are you asserting it's any good, or just making a joke that every time I complain about Volvos, some vulva comes along and suggests some model I should have tried instead? It's bigger and heavier, so I can only assume it handles worse, but was picked because it's less common, and isn't even available where I am, so I couldn't try it without flying to another country.

    23. Re:Stumped my ass by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      Yes, but they also said "De Doo Doo Doo, De Da Da Da", so puts their level of sentience in some doubt.

    24. Re:Stumped my ass by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      It's not likely Honda screwed up the implementation. Its likely Nippon Denso (or whatever they call themselves these days - they're a huge company that makes modules for car manufacturers - like keyless entry, window controllers, cruise control... the list goes on) screwed it up, and perhaps not just for Honda, perhaps for other Japanese manufacturers too.

    25. Re:Stumped my ass by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Busting a window will set off the alarms glass break sensor. It also won't disable the immobiliser.

    26. Re:Stumped my ass by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      the secondary bus is usually a LIN bus... There's no encryption or authentication in LIN. CAN also doesn't specify either.

    27. Re:Stumped my ass by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I don't hold any high hopes that they completely changed their core philosophy and priorities in the past 5 years

      I don't like 'em (my folks do) but to be fair, they were sold to Ford and then to China during that time period, so who knows what philosophy might be at play.

      I'm rather assuming that the Chinese owner will want to use Volvo as a flagship quality demonstrator, so they might actually get better.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    28. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the exact security mechanisms used by manufacturers on top of KeyLoq's hardware are not public, so turning the theoretical hacks into a working device is still hard even with these issues identified.

      Turning theoretical hacks into a working device is actually much, much easier for "not public" security systems because they are rarely peer reviewed fr security and are chock full of holes. If KeyLoq's hardware were public and publically discussed, and KeyLoq accepted criticism and feedback from the hive mind to correct its flaws, it would very quickly evolved into something that would be very hard to implement a hack for. But it's not, so it's not.

    29. Re:Stumped my ass by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe the car is sentient, hates the current own and wants to be stolen.

      That, or the guy carrying the backpack in the video has something big enough in it to need a backpack; like a large coil, battery, and circuit board. People seem to forget that every electronic device is both a radio transmitter and receiver. With a powerful enough transmitter, any signal can be induced in any part of a circuit. Of course, physics also demands that any signal induced would be strongest along parallel wires -- power cables, to be specific.

      The reason why they're targetting passenger-side doors is probably because the control logic is in the driver side door, and the doors on the right-hand side would have the longest run of cable between the control board and the door's selenoid. of course, you don't run power cable from one side of the car to the other, you run a signal wire; which depending on what kind of logic gate is on the other side, may only require a tenth to a half volt of voltage across it to trigger.

      The equipment to generate a short, broadband pulse at a right angle should be sufficient to induce the required voltage, thus causing the door to unlock. Never attack the crypto system when you can go after the control interface. This is, for all intents and purposes, a side channel attack. It would only work on makes and models of cars that have a sufficiently long run of signal cable running along the longitudal axis of the vehicle. The attacker would need to be within about 5 feet to do this, and to not be obvious the car would need to be equipped with a lock that is along the window-frame or make an audible noise during unlock -- otherwise an attacker would have to visually inspect the interior of the car first, and the suspicious behavior of doing so in a parking lot filled with cars could attract law enforcement.

      Anyway, that's my suspicion for what's going on. To detect this, you'd need to be able to detect a sudden increase in broadband EMR, and triangulate its location, and the emission would only last a few milliseconds, if that. The police won't have the resources to find this, but the FCC might if the attacks are happening within a single metropolitan area... or if you had one of those multimillion dollar semitruck rigs with millimeter wave x-ray tech like what they use in airports to scan people (and their backpacks) for the tell-tale metal loop, which would be optimally placed around the circumference of the bag.

      Mind you, all of this ignores potential 4th amendment issues, along with all manner of other legal obstacles, including the fact that you'd be irradiating innocent people who are also unaware of your activities while in public. Failing that, you're tasked with swarming an area with officers and detaining anyone with a backpack within a certain radius, that radius being defined as the response time between signal acquisition and having boots on the ground.

      As to profiling them, you're probably looking for a van without windows, SUV, or similar vehicle where stolen goods can be dropped off and the attacker picked up quickly and removed from the area... statistically, he'll be within a few blocks. The equipment needed to generate a powerful enough EM pulse would take up most of the backpack and be very bulky -- even with high energy density batteries... it probably wouldn't have enough room to store much in the way of stolen items, necessitating a nearby collection point.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    30. Re:Stumped my ass by girlintraining · · Score: 2

      Oh, and P.S., if you're trying to catch this crew without the multimillion dollar anti-terrorist equipment or the FCC, you should canvas upscale shopping malls and retail establishments that cater to people who make an excess of $40,000 per year and are aged 45+; Look for lots filled with cars that are 2007 or newer, SUVs, etc. That's the most lucrative target for this type of criminal. Prioritize for surveillance areas with a lot of vehicle traffic, but not a lot of foot traffic. You already know their M.O., and if you're playing by the numbers, you should only have to put about 30 or so places under surveillance. Don't bother putting places already hit under surveillance -- you're dealing with an RF engineer or someone similarly-trained (like an EE), they're going to know enough not to return to the scene of the crime, at least not this early in their 'career'. They may get sloppy, or desperate, later, depending on what the motivation is for these attacks is.

      You probably don't know where and when the first attack like this was, but if by some incredible stroke of luck you do, center your search radius on that point. That was the test area. A rig like this would have to be tested, and human nature suggests they'd pick a place not too far from their home to try it out.

      You might also want to check for a spike in cable TV, internet, etc., service calls within the same metropolitan areas; It would look not dissimilar to a lightning strike in its pattern, but have a smaller geographical foot print and (obviously) no lightning on the day of the reports. It's very unlikely he used a faraday cage or had the proper equipment to isolate the emissions from other vulnerable devices... he might have even blown out his own cable TV receiver or internet while building it. Creating the equipment to perform an attack like this is relatively straightforward for an RF engineer or EE, but an experienced amateur radio operator or hobbyist could probably also build it; It's just exceedingly unlikely they got it right on the first attempt.

      Good luck guys.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    31. Re:Stumped my ass by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I was talking about handling, and the larger heavier S80 likely doesn't out handle the 850. Send two over my way, and I'll do a comparison for you.

    32. Re:Stumped my ass by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's probably a Sting.

    33. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have video of people 'apparently using a small device to open cars equipped with keyless entry' and yet they are stumped?

      Police officer: I am stumped. It's possible that criminals have developed a small electronic device that remotely interferes with whatever part of the car unlocks the doors when you press the fob, but this is just too simple, so we are conducting an exhaustive search for other explanations.

      Police officer: I am stumped. We know that criminals have developed a small electronic device that remotely interferes with whatever part of the car unlocks the doors when you press the fob, but how could they have managed a replay attack against a hopping code protocol using a 64-bit shared key and a nonlinear encryption algorithm? Then again, I'm just a highway cop, I'm not supposed to understand this stuff.

    34. Re:Stumped my ass by sjames · · Score: 1

      The problem with the whole months of work to find a vulnerability thing is that someone can put in the time and then sell the devices for $1000 a pop many times over. The buyers then get to amortize the cost over many stolen cars. High risk, high reward.

    35. Re:Stumped my ass by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      At some point in there, the encryption has to end, and a logic 0 or 1 has to be sent to some device to unlock the door. If you found that point, and had a way to get into it...

      For instance, say someone like Honda didn't feel like making every single door lock a smart device with its own KeeLoq decoder, but instead they have one central KeeLoq and then send an "unlock the doors" command to the electronic door solenoids. Now suppose somebody finds a backdoor way onto the bus that sends that command.

    36. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem with this scenario is that just popping the lock like that would not disable the alarm which would then sound when the door opened. You have to have some way of making the OBC think a valid alarm code was sent to deactivate the the door sensor and disable the siren.

    37. Re:Stumped my ass by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 2

      At some point in there, the encryption has to end, and a logic 0 or 1 has to be sent to some device to unlock the door. If you found that point, and had a way to get into it... ...

      A regular car probably has some place where exactly 1 logic 1 or 0 can be sent to unlock the door, but it's not unusual to have a system that first requires an enable solenoid to be activated, then simultaneously the unlock solenoid actually moves the bolt. (Mostly military stuff)

      The solenoids also take a bit of current, so if the logic controller is well shielded and takes a stream of bits to open, your system would be fairly secure against EMP type attacks, even if the solenoid isn't well shielded. You don't want your doors unlocking every time you pass a Semi with a 1kw linear amp on his CB rig.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    38. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love reading long-winded descriptions from people that don't know what they're talking about ............. it's cute!

    39. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "At some point in there, the encryption has to end, and a logic 0 or 1 has to be sent to some device to unlock the door. If you found that point, and had a way to get into it..."

      Awwwwww that's cute, you sound just like my management.

      "electronic door solenoids"

      Huh? I assure you, there are no electronic door solenoids in any modern vehicle, Mr. Wizard. Try microprocessor controlled motor.

    40. Re:Stumped my ass by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      Where on earth do you live, where truckers use 1kw linear amps? Around here, that is unheard of. 10kw is about the minimum.

    41. Re:Stumped my ass by swb · · Score: 1

      Volvos were always designed for safety first.

      Only in the last 15 years have they really tried to compete in the near-luxury-semi-performance categpry.

      The V8 is pretty quick, but it is a large car. I find I can take clover leafs at a steady 60 MPH without a lot of issues (the model with the adjustable suspension does even better, but I avoided that for long-term reliability issues).

      They used the same Aisin transmission for the V6 and V8 models which led to the V8 being detuned -- it only shows 315 HP in the specs, and a normally aspirated 4.4L V8 should be cable of 350 or more HP. I'd think 400 HP with supercharging would be not unrealistic and make it a very quick car.

      It has AWD, stability and traction control which help a lot. It's a great car in the snow, almost impossible to spin out.

    42. Re:Stumped my ass by phorm · · Score: 1

      Compromises that exploit particular broken implementations of a cryptosystem are by far the most common kind of vulnerability

      If you're talking about cryptographic vulnerabilities, sure. It could also be a physical issue common to those types of vehicles. Perhaps those vehicles have a poorly-shielded long-running cable that's easy to either induce noise and trigger the door opener, or produces noise and is easy to sniff data out of.

    43. Re:Stumped my ass by AK+Marc · · Score: 1
      Quick is unrelated to handling. Steady-state turns are mostly unrelated to handling. Turn-in and body roll are the two characteristics I associate most with handling. So nothing you are saying adjusts my opinion that the S80 will likely handle worse than the 850, and the 850 was pretty bad as far as performance sedans go. It sounds like Volvo has finally caught up with a 1989 Infinity Q45. Though the Q45 is RWD, so the S80 may be better in snow.

      almost impossible to spin out

      That's usually an indication that they made massive compromises in handling for stability. Volvos, the cars built for idiots (they try to prevent you from doing stupid, "almost impossible to spin out" and when you do anyway, because you are a Volvo driver, you think you are safer than others).

    44. Re:Stumped my ass by bkcallahan · · Score: 1

      -- Amateur Radio Operator, and you're right, I probably could. But I've learned it's best to avoid prison, no?

    45. Re:Stumped my ass by bkcallahan · · Score: 1

      I 3 my 82 Lolvo. And I've driven the S80. Scared the crap out of my passengers, wanna do it again sometime up and down Germantown Road in Portland; my boss told everyone at work one night "Dude can drive the fuck out of a Prius" (They're not bad cars, they can actually move) :)

      Sure, there's way faster cars, but not many can an ordinary person get ahold of one. The S80 is my current favorite.

    46. Re:Stumped my ass by kmoser · · Score: 1

      Maybe the car is sentient, hates the current own and wants to be stolen.

      Is it named Christine?

    47. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Highly unlikely, because simply energizing a lock solenoid with an EMP would not disarm the alarm, so it would go off as soon as the door was physically opened. Here that didn't happen, so something is actually emulating the entire disarm code, unless some of the manufacturers left a backdoor in the signalling structure, for whatever reason, and word got out.

    48. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't opening the door without disarming the alarm set it off on most cars? Or is it specifically triggering the door unlock switch rather than the wires leading to the lock servo?

    49. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, a 2007 hack of carkeys involved sending a huge amount of challenge/responses to a car (several hours worth) and then running a cryptoanalyzis on the result (again several hours worth). Due to some reason all the keys from a series of cars had parts of the key identical so once you had broken one car in the series you could run only the part that you lacked while at the car that you wanted to steal, if it was part of the same series it only took a few seconds.

      I would guess that the hack from 2007 was patched, but perhaps someone found something similar?

    50. Re:Stumped my ass by DriveDog · · Score: 1

      I see all sorts of arguers, but there's no doubt that RWD Volvos not only drove but rode like trucks. I'm not saying that couldn't be corrected with some suspension tuning and a few aftermarket parts, but in factory trim, that was the case. Always underdamped, always excessive body roll. I disagree on FWD models, but 850s and the like were only up to ordinary handling standards, regardless of the hype surrounding them (see also Volkswagen).

    51. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're forgetting that the EMP would have to penetrate the "Faraday cage" formed by the sheet steel of the door, and remain focused. I doubt if it could be done.

    52. Re:Stumped my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, email me at hizhiz23@gmail.com, I had a few questions in mind for you girlintraining, I think you can be very helpful

  3. Seems an unnecessary feature by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 1

    Maybe not so much the remote lock/unlock feature, but to be able to start it without actually inserting the key? A carjacker can push someone into their car as the door is opened and start it without fumbling for a key. Depending on the behavior of the car when the key becomes too far away, it can shut down during operation - dangerous - or be immobilized at its next destination (think a couple arrive at home, keyholder enters home and driver goes to run an errand).

    1. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a carjacker is forcing me into my car, the last thing i want is to have to fumble for anything and agitate my assailant. My key stays in my pocket, which means it goes with me when i get out of the car, leaving the thieving dickbag stranded wherever he stops the car next. too. That, and not using a key every day (with it's metal-on-metal wear) means I never have to worry about sticky ignitions or complete failure of the key. If my fob battery runs out, the actual metal key comes out and there is a place to put it in the steering column, so I won't be stranded. Not a necessary invention, but does make my life that much easier.

    2. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      As far as I can tell, the compromise discussed in this article is only keyless entry, not related to starting a car. The thieves are using it to steal stuff like cell phones and GPS units from inside parked cars, not stealing the cars themselves.

    3. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The latter happened to me, I had the key in my pocket, but was the passenger. My wife dropped me off somewhere, neither of us realizing I had the key, and once she drove where she was going and shut off the car, we were both stuck. The car was fine running without the key, and didn't alert her immediately when it lost track of the key (maybe it doesn't periodically check for it once it is running?)

    4. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by VAXcat · · Score: 5, Informative

      Never get into a car with a carjacker. People who do that wind up at the secondary crime scene, where the homicide (yours) takes place. Run away if you can, fight if you must, but don't get in the car.

      --
      There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    5. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      The keyfob works to start or keep the car running only a matter of a few feet. If you get out of the car, or someone forces past you to get into the car when you're not in it they aren't going to start it with you standing outside the vehicle. Worst case, they might get a few feet before the car shuts down.

      It's a convenience feature that isn't necessary, but some people want it. They can keep their keys in their pocket or purse and not take them out to start the vehicle.

    6. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 1

      Not all of them have actual keys.

    7. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      It's a lot easier to fence a laptop, cell phone, digital projector, petty cash, company credit card or whatever other sales materials/samples a business traveler might have in their car, than driving an entire car (and it's easily traceable serial numbers) back to a chop shop. Plus you have to go back (taxi?) to the scene of the crime to get your car. The logistics just don't make sense.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    8. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by jon3k · · Score: 1

      I'm sure keyless start will cause carjacking rates to sky rocket.

      Wait, no it won't.

    9. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if a carjacker pulls me OUT of my running car and drives away (I keep my doors locked, but still)... the keyfob is still in my pocket and I can even hit the alarm for whatever good that will do (I don't know if the car shuts off if I get too far away, once I started it up to fill my tires but I never went too far), but more importantly he can't shut the car off or he can't start it again.

    10. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure they would. It's a nice reliable fallback.

      You can't tell that mine has a key because it's hidden inside the fob, you have to pull a little latch and the key slides out.

    11. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2

      I believe the key actually has to be present only for the initial start of the car, though I might be mistaken. That would be how I'd design it, at any rate. I see no point in the key needing to be present while the vehicle is in operation.

      On a whole, keyless start is an irritating and stupid feature, I think. For those of us who work out of our vehicles, it's irritating to have to lock/unlock the vehicle frequently just to make sure it's not jacked.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    12. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by klubar · · Score: 1

      At least on the Prius once the car is running even if you move the key fob out of range, the car keeps running (actually a good safety feature as you wouldn't want the car to shutdown on a key fob failure.) On the Prius (and maybe other Toyotas), there is a metal key for mechanically unlocking the driver's side door and a electronic slot for starting the car. You can use the electronic slot if the key fob batter is completely dead so I suspect it's a passive NFC device. There is also a mode that you can disable the active detection feature and always have to use the dashboard slot. Other models probably have similar features.

    13. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      On Toyota, that key is for the door. There's a small antenna in the fob that provides just enough power to authenticate if you hold the fob up to the start button's metal ring.

    14. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Keith+Mickunas · · Score: 1

      Did the car not notify her in some way that the key was no longer in the car? I know my Ford does this, it beeps and displays something on the dash if I get out of the car with the key and leave the car running. I'm pretty sure my BMW had a similar feature but I don't have it anymore so I can't verify that.

    15. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      You can drive my Lexus all over creation without the key, but you can't restart it once you turn it off.

    16. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Maybe not so much the remote lock/unlock feature, but to be able to start it without actually inserting the key? A carjacker can push someone into their car as the door is opened and start it without fumbling for a key. Depending on the behavior of the car when the key becomes too far away, it can shut down during operation - dangerous - or be immobilized at its next destination (think a couple arrive at home, keyholder enters home and driver goes to run an errand).

      There are several systems involved here.
      First of all you have the remote lock/alarm/window fobs. These are powered by a small watch-style battery in the fob, and allow the car to be locked/unlocked (or roll down windows) from a pretty good distance away.. sometimes as far as 50 yards or more. This is basically a coded message using a pre-shared key stored on the FOB and in the car's computer system. Unless you have a specific remote-start system added to the car (or builtin to a few luxury models) this won't actually start the car itself.

      The second system involved is a Proximity based system. This also relies on the battery working, and allows a push-button unlock on the door to be used or the car to be started if the fob is inside the passenger compartment and within a few feet of the ignition. It's a similar mechanism to the remote unlock, and like the remote unlock if the battery fails it doesn't work.

      Finally, you have an RFID-based anti-theft/anti-key-copying system built into the ignition. Each physical key has an RFID chip built into it, sometimes you can see them embedded in the key itself, sometimes it's hidden inside the plastic molding on the head of the key. This is not battery powered, and will not unlock the car at all. All it really does is prevent the ignition from working unless the inserted key has a functioning RFID chip.

      Most fobs have a physical key that can be removed from the fob, so that if the battery stops working the key can be used physically for unlocking and starting the car- but remember the RFID will not allow the push-button unlock or the keyless ignition to work, it has to be physically inserted.

      Now down to the article.
      They don't bother telling us if any of those systems have remote start capability, or if they are just keyless entry and keyless start systems.
      They also don't tell us how close the thieves are getting to the vehicle.
      They don't come out and say it, but they are calling these thefts of the actual vehicle, not just people robbing stuff from the interior.

      So what this boils down to is as follows:
      If the thieves are actually stealing the cars, then we must know if the stolen vehicles had remote start or just keyless start. We must also know how close they get to the door. Once they have that information, they should be able to easily deduce which system is being compromised- the remote start or the keyless entry.

      As for how they are doing it, it's most likely a weakness in how the key codes are being generated by the systems in question, or else a weakness with one particular remote start system. The initial keycodes in the fobs are generated at the factory, but can be reprogrammed at a dealership (which you have to do if you get a new key or replace a lost key). So it could be just a problem with factory default codes being too predictable. I would guess the "device" is just a normal keyless entry transmitter which has a bunch of pre-loaded codes that it runs through until it gets a "hit".
      But it's also possible they're running a brute-force attack and just trying all possible combinations. These things use a pre-shared key to encrypt the remote commands, but as there are very limited number of commands and the format doesn't vary it might very well be possible to crack the crypto using other methods as well. These are all proprietary systems and they won't even tell you the key length, let alone details about how the communication works.

    17. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may not be as fancy as the luxury fobs, but so far, I've been content with the rather pedestrian key on my current ride. If the battery dies, I use the key on the driver's door, and the transponder for the ignition uses power from the vehicle. Separate subsystems.

      For actual tweaker-resistant security, that is what reinforced strongboxes that are well bolted down in the trunk are for. A thief might have easy street getting to it, but getting it open requires more than just a long screwdriver or a crowbar.

      As for burglar alarms, the only ones I've found that work at all are the ones that dump pink fog into the interior of the vehicle, because that creates a spectacle that attracts people, while a car alarm going off just makes people cheer the thief on in most cases.

    18. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by PRMan · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to see stats on that.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    19. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Richy_T · · Score: 3, Funny

      They're in my glove box if you'll just lean in and grab them for me...

    20. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      I very much doubt most carjackers will kill you. Stealing a car might get you on the cops list, but not terribly high. Murder will get you all the way to the top in an instant. Not to mention a bit more of a prison sentence.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    21. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2

      ...the secondary crime scene, where the homicide (yours) takes place.

      Like this from yesterday.

      That's some sad stuff.

    22. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      I very much doubt most carjackers will kill you.

      If it is a professional car thief, the gone in 60 seconds type, then yeah you are probably right. If it is just some street thug who is a criminal because they have impulse control problems then all bets are off. I'm thinking you are looking at worse than 20:1 odds that you get a professional.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    23. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure I've been in cars that don't have a keyed ignition, and I know for a fact that some newer Ducati motorcycles don't

    24. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This can be generalized further.
      Never let people (thiefes, burglers, whatever) take you anyway.
      Give them your wallet, cellphone whatever. But when they start talking about tying you up, or going somewhere, chances are you're going to end up dead.
      So you might as well take your chances and fight there. At least that way if you die people will no what happened. (due to all the blood, and a body in an inconvenient location)

    25. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most criminals these days don't expect a fight. The public has been well trained to just surrender. That is why I figure if any ever tries any kind of robbery with me I am going to make a judgement call. Are they armed, how much bigger than me are they? If I think I have a remotely decent shot of success I'll fight.

      I figure I'll have an advantage in that they won't expect me to try it. I did have I guy demand my wallet once while stopped at a traffic signal down town. He just strolled up to the car. I pulled the 12" KA-Bar I have under the seat and told him to "Back the fuck away before you get cut" and you know what he did.

    26. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People with logic can get real jobs, usually.

    27. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by cusco · · Score: 1

      In my case "when I get out of the car" would be as soon as it was going under 25 mph. I can recover from road rash a lot faster than from a knife stab.

      In 30+ years of driving cars with metal keys, most of them fairly elderly, I've never had sticky ignitions or 'key failure', I think that concern is a bit exaggerated.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    28. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      My 2013 Ford Escape beeps the horn and puts a "Key not in the vehicle" if I leave it running and step out of the door.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    29. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's really quite simple. If they just wanted the car, they'd tell you to get out.
      Or just pull you out and drive off. Criminals do stupid stuff when they think it will help them escape getting caught.

    30. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by PRMan · · Score: 1

      You clearly didn't have an early Saturn... Only thing that ever went out on the car. But it went out on EVERYONE's Saturn.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    31. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is why you carry a gun, you shoot the bastard in the face when he least expects it and you get to keep the car and eliminate the world of one more Darwin award winner.

    32. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Macman408 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I see the distinction of why keyless start is "irritating and stupid". It doesn't matter if it's keyless or keyed - if you leave the key in the car, or leave the car running, it can be stolen. If you turn the car off and take the key with you, you're good. Assuming you don't want somebody to steal everything out of your car, you need to lock it anyway.

      Or maybe you're distinguishing something with keyless start from keyless entry? I'm not really sure. In any case, my car does both, and it's great. To unlock the door, I grab the handle and pull. To turn the car on, I press the Start button. Having to use a key isn't usually a big deal (unless you're carrying a couple of bags of groceries and don't have a hand free to dig through your pocket/purse), but it sure is nice to not have to bother with one.

    33. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is correct in brazil, as well. Get the fuck out of the vehicle, they're usually crazy desperate to run away with it immediately. If you have a child or baby inside, you are in *deep* shit, pray that the thief is not a fucking moron or stoned, and make sure to shout you're just taking the baby out, and be *FUCKING FAST* at it, or they might depart with the child still halfway the door/window, causing terrible injuries and death.

      Yes, it happened around here. Which is why they actually listen enough to let you remove the child (they're into it for the car, not killing children. But they will shoot you in the face if you don't give the car up immediately).

    34. Re: Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or they already have a gun and steal your gun, too.

    35. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by tibman · · Score: 1

      seriously, what was the point of that? There's no way he'll get away with that forever. Someone will talk.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    36. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I very much doubt most carjackers will kill you. Stealing a car might get you on the cops list, but not terribly high. Murder will get you all the way to the top in an instant. Not to mention a bit more of a prison sentence.

      This,

      Most car thieves in my country (Australia) steal vehicles to go joyriding... The reason you dont want to get into the car is they are likely to kill themselves doing 150 (KPH) in a Camry on residential streets (stop sniggering, a Camry can reach 150 if given a long enough run up).

      Second biggest reason is a getaway vehicle. Chop Shops aren't big here in Oz as there are too many checks and aftermarket parts coming in from Japan/China/Thailand are cheap enough.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    37. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by mjwx · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, the compromise discussed in this article is only keyless entry, not related to starting a car. The thieves are using it to steal stuff like cell phones and GPS units from inside parked cars, not stealing the cars themselves.

      Yep.

      But I have to ask, have cars become less secure?

      I used to be able to pop the locks on my 98 EK Civic with a bent coat hanger (yep, the GF locked both her and my keys in the car somehow... and she couldn't even drive a manual so I dont know what she was doing). If I could do it, any petty thief could. The only defence was to have nothing in the car worth stealing.

      The EK Civic didn't have keyless entry but my 2006 DC5 does and isn't as easy to pop the locks however a 2011 Holden (Chevy) Cruze is, which is why I have to ask if cars are really harder to break into these days. Personally I'd rather have them pop the lock than break a window to steal $0.75 out of my centre console and rifle through my receipts (is it too much to ask that they put them .

      The best defence against stealing the car itself (A DC5 is worth something, even in bits) is a good immobiliser. Even then they can be bypassed with enough knowledge, but crappier immobilisers can be bypassed easier.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    38. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by sexconker · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I very much doubt most carjackers will kill you. Stealing a car might get you on the cops list, but not terribly high. Murder will get you all the way to the top in an instant. Not to mention a bit more of a prison sentence.

      Murder gets you to about 20th:

      1: Kill a cop.
      2: Kill a cop's family member or dog.
      3: Expose corruption within the police force.
      4: Be accused of having child porn.
      5: Protest government officials or actions in a public space.
      6: Exercise your rights when arrested, pulled over, stopped for a random search, etc.
      7: Sell drugs.
      8: Fail to file your tax return or make an error when filing.
      9: Be black outside a low-income area.
      10: Download a movie.
      11: Buy an iPhone prototype someone left behind in a bar.
      12: Have child porn.
      13: Be male and get into an argument with a female.
      14: Have drugs in your possession.
      15: Organized gambling.
      16: Make or sell moonshine.
      17: Create or distribute child porn.
      18: Steal from the government or a corporation.
      19: Steal from rich people.
      20: Murder.

    39. Re: Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is going to require some study. I think we can easily get murder out of the top 100 in th U.S. anyway. And to start the addition to the list, contempt of court, and interfering with governmental administration. Both carry indefinate terms and are undefensable.

    40. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A) If someone is actively committing a crime against you, then it's stupid to trust them. Gee, they say they won't kill you if you ___, and you believe them?

      B) Most criminals aren't thinking rationally. They aren't going to leave you tied up like some cartoon because that's better from a risk/benefit calculation, they're scared to kill you there so they are moving you to a more private place.

      C) Cooperation sends exactly the wrong message to the criminal. It's no different than a grade school bully. If you obey them then their behavior escalates. They are never grateful for your cooperation and do something nice for you in exchange (i.e. your life), that's not how antisocial people treat others.

    41. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      or... the fob has an RFID tag and the ring around the start button is an RFID reader. Eliminating the need to constantly transmit just in case the user is holding the key close to the start button and the battery going flat in a few days.

    42. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Or an old Toyota. The key would still work, but as the lock barrel wears out, it starts working with any Toyota key... Usually only the drivers door lock would wear out, the ignition isn't used as often.

    43. Re: Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plastic key in the credit card for your wallet was for emergency use only. Owned a 92 SL2 for 12 years and 248k miles

    44. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There you go assuming criminals are sane. Here's a hint, sane people (for the most part) don't commit violent crime.

      Violent criminals, the kind that jack your car and kidnap you, generally don't think they're going to live another 3 years. They don't care if they get busted because jail time and a death sentence mean the same thing to them.

    45. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Here's a hypothesis: What if the lock system in the car was designed by someone making some really bad assumptions?

      1. Car model X uses copper wiring to transmit information to the different systems in the car.
      2. Various command codes are used by the car's CPU to manage these systems.
      3. The lock control system is one of these systems.

      So now we come to the bad assumptions:

      1. Only the CPU can send out commands.
      2. There is no need to encrypt these commands, as only the CPU can send commands and the CPU won't do that without proper authentication.

      Vulnerability: A transmitter at a close enough range and with enough power can emit the command codes to unlock the doors, relying on the possibility that the signals will get picked up on the correct bus. Since the lock system doesn't check whether or not correct authentication has taken place, the locks pop open.

      A handheld device that did this could be made for less than $100.

      --
      ~X~
    46. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by sjames · · Score: 1

      On a high end car, the HEADLIGHTS can cost a grand. The thief doesn't want to sell your car, he wnts to strip it for parts and crush the remains for scrap.

    47. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of this oldie...

      Man calls 9-1-1 and reports that burglary is taking place at this neighbors house, requesting police.
      He gets the response: "Sorry sir, but all cars are busy right now. We cannot help you."
      Man hangs up, waits a few minutes and calls again.
      "I was me that called earlier about the burglary next door. Disregard that. I've killed the burglar."
      Within a minute a dozen police cars arrive at the house. The police enter the house, arrest the burglar and then turn their attention towards our man.
      "I thought you said you killed the burglar?!"
      "I thought you said all your cars were busy?"

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    48. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I own a 2012 Charger SRT8...no actual key. My previous Infiniti had the type you're mentioning, but not the Charger.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    49. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      That sounds similar to my experience, I haven't been driving for 30 years but 25. All I have driven have been high mileage used vehicles and a couple of them the tumbler in the ignition was so worn that any thing that would go into the key slot would work, screwdrivers, other random keys, my pocket knife, etc. Granted most of those vehicles were around 20 years old and had well over 200,000 miles on them. One of them eventually got so bad you didn't even need anything in the key slot and could just turn the ignition and it would start (that was my 88 Bronco II).

      --
      Time to offend someone
    50. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Your list is a bit off. #5 should be "Be black and murder a white girl", #6 white male.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    51. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by toddestan · · Score: 1

      For a long time, GM had only had something like 12 unique keys for their cars. So in any decent sized parking lot, you probably had several cars that would start with the same key.

    52. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      You've misread me. The fob does have an RFID tag or equivalent, powered by the start ring. The reader is only active when you try to start the car with the fob battery dead.

    53. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by DriveDog · · Score: 1

      So would I. But based on anecdotal evidence, I'm not tossing it out. The numerator is highly convincing. Many murder victims have been people who did what the carjacker/kidnapper/murderer said and went along in the car. But the denominator is what I question. How many were kidnapped/carjacked and suffered only minor physical harm? Plus, what are the odds of living if you refuse? I suspect better, but how much better? What is the best strategy? Probably to assess the situation in real time. Difficult, sure, but less so if one is prepared. How to prepare? Think about what you might do and what you should do. What should you do? Depends partly on the statistics we're asking for, not just advice like "always do anything but get in the car."

    54. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by DriveDog · · Score: 1

      I have one now that occasionally refuses to go to Accessory. But it often falls out in other positions. The most secure (against theft) car I had was an old British sports car. No key actually fit the ignition switch (any key would work, though). But the jury-rigged hand brake was counterintuitive to release and the shift linkage so bad that it took a couple of days to learn how to find any particular gear. If you did the Hollywood trick of grabbing something behind the dash (like the back of the ignition switch or a handful of wires), you were going to be in for a nasty jolt, because very little of anything had any insulation left. Once past all these hurdles, the chance of starting the engine electrically was slim, so you'd need an accomplice to push for the roll start (I didn't park on hills for a variety of mechanical reasons). Finally, once underway, if the theft was reported, bicycle cops might intercept the "fleeing" culprit.

    55. Re:Seems an unnecessary feature by cusco · · Score: 1

      Had a friend who owned an old Norton Commando motorcycle that was utterly impossible for anyone but him to start. He was known to leave the key in it and then sit on his balcony and laugh at people who tried to steal it.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  4. Just a thought. by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they always seem to strike on the passenger side

    Maybe because people commonly stuff things like their GPS into the glove box, which is located on the passenger side?
    My car is so old it doesn't even have door locks, so not really a problem for me.

    --
    If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    1. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      they always seem to strike on the passenger side

      Maybe because people commonly stuff things like their GPS into the glove box, which is located on the passenger side?

      My car is so old it doesn't even have door locks, so not really a problem for me.

      Can't speak for all cars, but several I am familiar with unlock all doors simultaneously if you touch the passenger handle instead of just the driver door if you use that handle. Could save them a few seconds if they were going to open more than one door, and they likely don't want to hang around the car for very long. But the glove box is very plausible as well (unless they are trying to steal the car itself).

    2. Re:Just a thought. by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, the passenger side is right next to the sidewalk if the car is parallel-parked. That makes it a lot easier than trying to break into a car while traffic is barely missing your tush.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:Just a thought. by gl4ss · · Score: 2

      maybe they should try to find which device it is.
      here's a thought though, maybe it causes induction in the lock relay itself.
      a more realistic reason though is this: it's less suspicious if someone goes to a car on the passenger side, gets something and gets out again, like picking something up from the car he's supposed to be picking up.

      or cars are just parked with the passenger door towards sidewalk....

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:Just a thought. by wile_e8 · · Score: 2

      Also no steering wheel on that side. As long as they are just stealing valuables from the car, it's one less obstacle to pull stuff around and no chance of hitting the car horn and alerting the people in the house.

    5. Re:Just a thought. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2

      Add to the fact that most in-vehicle theft is performed with a broken window, it's kinda stupid. I'd prefer to leave my doors unlocked so I don't have to shell out $300 for new glass - and a broken window is a much more visible sign of B&E than someone fiddling with a coat hanger or gaining access keyless.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    6. Re:Just a thought. by Col.+Klink+(retired) · · Score: 1

      I just wish thieves would check to see if the door is locked before breaking the glass. I had a quarter glass shattered in my unlocked car.

      PS: Never, ever, lock a soft-top convertible.

      --

      -- Don't Tase me, bro!

    7. Re:Just a thought. by ThePeices · · Score: 5, Funny

      Add to the fact that most in-vehicle theft is performed with a broken window

      Isnt that kinda dangerous for the burglar? Walking around with a broken window to be used to break into a car is unwieldy, and they can easily cut themselves on the glass of the broken window they are carrying.

      Not to mention it would look pretty suspicious walking down the street with a broken window.

    8. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The obvious answer is that all carjacker's are British.

    9. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention it would look pretty suspicious walking down the street with a broken window.

      Not necessarily. You could probably fit a broken window in a reasonably small bag.

    10. Re:Just a thought. by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      Never, ever, lock a soft-top convertible.

      A friend pointed this out to me when I bought my first convertible. When I got my next car I started locking again. Someone broke the window and all they got was a hand full of burned CDs. If I had not locked the door I would not have had to replace the glass.
      I have not locked a car door since.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    11. Re:Just a thought. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      It could be that most people don't use the remote unlock for the passenger side much. It wouldn't surprise me if a small percentage of cars haven't been unlocked remotely from the passenger side ever, and a larger percentage not at all since the last service where the onboard computer was rebooted.
      So perhaps the first key exchange from a factory setting is less secure? I could be wrong, of course.

    12. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, if someones sees you get in the driver's side they will expect you to start the car and drive off... if you go in the passenger side then they know you are only getting something out of the car and not planning to move the car. May not be a big issue in many cases, but if anyone is circling looking for a spot and you get in the driver side... they may just end up waiting for you to leave the spot and watch you till you leave... not so if you go in the passenger side which is a clear indication that you just wanted to take something out of the car.

    13. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When stealing from a car in a lot or similar public place where the owner may return while you are breaking in, it is best to approach from the passenger side. It is more plausable "you mistook their car for your friend's car" than for your own car and if their key just happened to open the other car that is "just weird" or the driver of the car you are robbing "left the car unlocked."

      Then there is the idea that any damage done while gaining access or stealing that is done to the passenger side is less likly to be noticed by the driver.

      It is also much quicker to open the glove box from the passenger side without getting into the car. You would also be amazed at the number of people that leave checks, credit cards, wallets and purses in their golve box.

      Typically CDs are above the visor or below the seat. Valuables are in the glove box, middle arm rest container, or under the seat. During the holidays big ticket items are usually kept in the truck while people are shopping for other gifts, so the first thing you look for at that time of year is a trunk release inside the car.
       

    14. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it would look pretty suspicious walking down the street with a broken window.

      According to Hollywood, this happens all the time. To be fair, the window doesn't start out broken.

    15. Re:Just a thought. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how would they know that he was carrying a broken window, windows are invisible.

    16. Re:Just a thought. by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      Add to the fact that most in-vehicle theft is performed with a broken window

      Isnt that kinda dangerous for the burglar? Walking around with a broken window to be used to break into a car is unwieldy, and they can easily cut themselves...

      They use a window from another nearby car, silly.

  5. kits for sale online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can get a keyless universal unlocker from china for around $2000USD.

    1. Re:kits for sale online by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

      Someone should check Silk Road for what's available in this type of technology, isn't that where all the underground stuff is sold these days? - HEX

    2. Re:kits for sale online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i saw them on alibaba - also, you could save yourself 2k and use this instead - http://j-walkblog.com/images/keylessentry.png

    3. Re:kits for sale online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get a keyless universal unlocker from china for around $2000USD.

      When it comes to fraud and theft, there's nothing you can get that wasn't made in china these days. I've also seen odometer rollback kits, EEPROM copiers, RFID cloners, you name it.

    4. Re:kits for sale online by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      You can get a keyless universal unlocker from china for around $2000USD.

      Someone must have ripped you off.

      Right now, they sell in China for $25

    5. Re:kits for sale online by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2

      Care to back up this statement?

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    6. Re:kits for sale online by Collin · · Score: 1

      the ones at your link are kits for installing a remote unlock system on your car, not for unlocking cars that you don't own.

    7. Re:kits for sale online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps just something that they claim does that. It's certainly possible though, more than a few security systems rely on supply of the ICs supposedly being controlled and having certain areas that are only writable at the factory, assumptions which turn out to be false because China doesn't care. E.g. you can get "unlocked" versions of the MFRC530 RFID used in Skylanders which could be used to get all the characters for free.

  6. probably not a key that is sent by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is probably something that is not what is expected, like some of those steering wheel locks that can be removed by breaking them in half by hitting in the middle of them rather than trying to pick the lock. They are not breaking the encryption, they are breaking the system, going around the expected secure path, not through it.

    1. Re:probably not a key that is sent by mindwhip · · Score: 2

      You are probably right... Either that or its a brute force attack and they just throw lots of codes at it in a short time and hope one works which is unlikely.

      My guess is they have radio/microwave transmitter that is causing a computer reboot/corruption or messing with the sensor information being fed from the mechanical parts of the lock and tricking the computer into thinking the mechanical key was used which triggers the central locking to open. As for the passenger side thing it could be that side is more vulnerable due to longer/shorter wires or the actual location of the computer.

      --
      [The Universe] has gone offline.
    2. Re:probably not a key that is sent by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      Are you suggested a basic buffer overload? If so that would be ROTFLOL!

    3. Re:probably not a key that is sent by mindwhip · · Score: 1

      I was thinking more an electrical/electronic attack rather than computational but a buffer overflow could be just as likely...

      --
      [The Universe] has gone offline.
    4. Re:probably not a key that is sent by toQDuj · · Score: 1

      The best trick against the steering wheel locks I've seen is to cut through the steering wheel, bend the wheel, slide off the lock, bend the wheel back. You have to replace the steering wheel if you want to resell it, but you got a car!

      Works for every steering wheel lock.

      B.

      --
      Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
  7. If we had the source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do we have the source to these remote key systems? Did they leave in backdoors? Its probably some kind of default dealership/factory key that people took when they got fired.

    1. Re:If we had the source by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      The dealers and factories don't have the source to rolling code remotes either.
      The chip manufacturers are the only ones who do, because if it got leaked, all the security is gone.

  8. Or attacking the source... by 0x537461746943 · · Score: 1

    And getting access to the keys and/or algorithms that generate said keyfobs. How well are the companies protecting them?

    1. Re:Or attacking the source... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Having access to the algorithms should not compromise security.

    2. Re:Or attacking the source... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Having access to the algorithms should not compromise security.

      Assuming that they are using some actually-competent cryptosystem, and didn't add a 'convenience feature' somewhere foolish to make it easier to create replacement fobs.

      Given the historical enthusiasm in lock and key circles for 'blind codes' that are super-magical-secure and can only be turned into bitting codes with the equally super-magical-secure codebooks that Trustworthy Authorized Locksmiths are supposed to have access to, I wouldn't be 100% optimistic about the market being handled according to the standards of professional cryptoanalysts...

    3. Re:Or attacking the source... by Spritzer · · Score: 1

      Unless the algorithms are flawed and exploitable

    4. Re:Or attacking the source... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      If that is the case then they lost before they started.

    5. Re:Or attacking the source... by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Valid, and stupid on their part. That is why I said should.

    6. Re:Or attacking the source... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Valid, and stupid on their part. That is why I said should.

      Fair enough. I'm just deeply pessimistic that the (wise and superior) "knowledge of the algorithm Must Not compromise the system" standard that crypto systems are held to prevails with keyless entry systems.

      For whatever reason(whether it be power/gate constraints, cultural sharing with the world of locksmithing, or vendor lousiness uninhibited by the ruthlessness of the internet), keyless-entry/RFID auth/etc. seems to be one of the last major bastions of vendors talking about 'Proprietary Encryption' as though it were a feature, rather than a point of shame. Encryption algorithms on general purpose computers went through that stage, at one time; but the lightweight RF hardware market seems to be lagging considerably in terms of awareness.

    7. Re:Or attacking the source... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the most problematic "features" is that you need to be able to re-synchronize the keyfob with the lock (there are several reasons why they would get out of sync). Apart from brute-forcing I think that this is the most-used attack-vector.

      Some time ago I read an article about grage-doors which had remote-controls that supposedly partnered with their locks. Unopenable by any other remote.

      Until they where ...

      The problem was that you could, for re-syncing purposes, tell the key and the lock to re-start their security-algorithms from a known point.

      The attackers remote would blindly send this signal and than the first code the origional algorithm would send. The attacked garage-door would open every time.

      In short: strong algorithms can be destroyed by (well ment) stupid "recovery" implementations.

  9. Short Term Investment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Step 1: Set up lots of situations where surveillance shows a car getting "stolen." Do something no one can understand. Get it promoted to the news.

    Step 2: industry professionals puzzle over this, finding and publishing some hole they end up finding.

    Step 3: Steal cars using the newly published method, since most people are lazy and won't heed the software update/recall notices.

    Convoluted? Sure. Plausible? Perhaps.

  10. This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 2

    This tempts me so bad. I don't want to steal cars. I just want a button that sets off everyone's panic alarms.

    1. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by Starteck81 · · Score: 1

      This tempts me so bad. I don't want to steal cars. I just want a button that sets off everyone's panic alarms.

      Have you thought about trying a wiffle ball bat with a thin lay of foam on it? Sure you have run up and down the row or vehicles to make it work but it's 100% reliable and much cheaper.

      --
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed H
    2. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      That sets off car alarms, most cars do not have them.

      He wants to trigger the panic button, which just uses the normal horn and pretty much all cars with keyless entry have.

    3. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by Applekid · · Score: 1

      This tempts me so bad. I don't want to steal cars. I just want a button that sets off everyone's panic alarms.

      I want one that will let me do it right after they cut me off in traffic.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    4. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"This tempts me so bad. I don't want to steal cars. I just want a button that sets off everyone's panic alarms."

      Please, when you do, develop something we can aim at those F*****G boom box cars to turn them OFF... or better yet- fry the stereo electronics.

    5. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      That wouldn't be too hard with my car. Just sneeze within 20 feet of the panic button. Now if you could tell me how to disable that, then I'd be interested.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    6. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the boom box car is playing a radio station, one can usually get the person controlling the radio to blow out a speaker or two by broadcasting a silence signal on the freq. they're listening to, then shutting off the transmitter or broadcasting something loud (I like to use the 1812 Overture).

    7. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      More like white hat, since technically you'd be informing the public about a security issue.

    8. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Just sneeze within 20 feet of the panic button. Now if you could tell me how to disable that, then I'd be interested.

      Sure. Just press on the tip of your nose for about five seconds or so.

      That should disable the sneeze reflex quite handily.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    9. Re:This tempts me to go black hat so bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if there's anyone you want panicking, it's the person in control of a heavy, dangerous object rolling down a busy highway.

  11. Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by cruff · · Score: 2

    What if the preference (or requirement) for doing this on the passenger side is due to the physical location of some wiring or other device that is susceptible to some kind of electronic signal or noise conduction into other circuitry that ends up causing the unlock?

    1. Re:Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that was my thought too - if the car circuit parses things really fast, not bounded by the expected transmission rate from the key, high frequency noise could be a very reasonable attack vector. Why brute force when randomness can do it for you?

      It isn't an EMP. The guy walking down the street in the Illinois clip appears to be fishing for vehicles it unlocks - he is already past the door when that sedan opens, acts surprised and goes back. Thus whatever this is, it can transmit continuously... though seemingly only in a fairly local region.

    2. Re:Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      No, doesn't make much sens to use EMP. Generating enough of a pulse to trigger something at 5 feet is going to take a pretty big device.

      My money is on them having broken a backdoor code or are able to capture/replay when the driver "locks" the door.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by bobbied · · Score: 2

      OR.... They simply are opening unlocked doors..... (See post from jklovanc below)

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      Good guess. All you need to do is trigger the relay which could be electronic/magnetic instead of digital.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    5. Re:Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by swb · · Score: 1

      My Volvo's "keyless" lock and start system has adjustable behavior for what doors will get unlocked when you open a door. It's able to tell what side of the car you are on and change its behavior.

      I think maybe whatever they're doing involves exploiting location sensing somehow, or maybe even finding a back door that involves opening a passenger door, with the idea being that most people wouldn't find the back door because it involved the passenger door instead of the driver's door.

      Perhaps they are able to trick the system into thinking the key is *inside* the car and the locks or computer make some kind of assumption based on where the key is, releasing the locks if the key is inside the car as some kind of emergency/safety feature when the car isn't moving.

    6. Re:Not code cracking but some other mechanism? by rapiddescent · · Score: 1

      The ECU is usually on the passenger side of the car near the glove box. There's well known augmentations to the ECU (or replacement ECU) attacks in order to drive a car away. Even BMW had a flaw in their ECU that allowed an unauthenticated person to create a key (from a blank) in the car. That attack (if you look at the CCTV images on the link at pistonheads) had attackers using the passenger door to enter.

  12. Seems to be "Honda-Specific" by bradgoodman · · Score: 2

    They sited Hondas and Acuras. As Acura is made by Honda - it seems like they're exploiting a bug or vulnerability in a specific device.

    1. Re:Seems to be "Honda-Specific" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not just made by Honda -- they *are* Hondas. Well, everywhere outside of Japan anyway. Maybe it's just North America. Anyway, they started that as a marketing gimmick because we Americans were too stupid to accept the fact that Honda can actually make high quality luxury cars. Or they figured they could charge more money under a different marque. Whatever, point is we're idiots.

      Also, cited, not sited :)

  13. I have an exploit that works on all cars by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    I have an exploit that works on all cars and I am willing to share it!

    Step 1. Apply brick swiftly to car side window.
    Step 2. Unlock car.
    Step 3. Gain entry.

    On some models Step 1 will need to be repeated several times before progressing to Step 2.

    1. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by bancho · · Score: 1

      Bricks are heavy. I believe an old spark plug works in place of the brick, and has the added benefit of fitting in a pocket.

    2. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Step 1. Apply brick swiftly to car side window.

      That doesn't always work either.

    3. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      On which cars?
      Even armored vehicles should just take longer. Possibly a lot longer.

    4. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I demand you cease and desist. This spark plug method is clearly just a method of infringing on my Brick + Window Intellectual Property. Please have slashdot remove your post and contact me for information on where you may send the settlement check.

    5. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here the procedure appears to be:
      1. use brick on some car
      2. remove "emergency break window hammer" that many people keep in car
      3. use said hammer on next cars to cleanly and quickly smash windows.

    6. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by thunderclap · · Score: 1

      It will on 97% if thrown correctly. The key word is correctly.

    7. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by JustOK · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work if the windows are already down.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    8. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Step 1. Apply brick swiftly to car side window.

      Why bother with a brick? You can buy a keyring tool to break car windows for a few dollars.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    9. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Step 1. Apply brick swiftly to car side window.

      That doesn't always work either.

      You forgot the citation

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    10. Re:I have an exploit that works on all cars by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I have an exploit that works on all cars and I am willing to share it!

      Step 1. Apply brick swiftly to car side window.
      Step 2. Unlock car.
      Step 3. Gain entry.

      On some models Step 1 will need to be repeated several times before progressing to Step 2.

      Step 4, remove broken glass from hand.

      Seriously, breaking a window is not that easy with cars manufactured after the 80's. The glass is designed not to dislodge in an impact (to protect the vehicle occupants in a collision). Google some car crash photos, windscreens are shattered, cracks everywhere but still in a single piece. It's not impossible to break a car window, but it's not as easy as they make up in the movies.

      But for a lot of cars, breaking a window is unnecessary as you can pop a lot of locks using a bent wire coat hanger. This is much easier than trying to break a window.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  14. Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Did anyone even really watch the video? The "object" in his hand was his thumb. He was opening a door where the handle is embedded in the door . His palm was up and his thumb was out. The door was not locked in the first place. Did anyone see him try the door before he supposedly used the "device"? The incident with the guy with the backpack is even more telling. He was walking along trying doors till he found one unlocked. Notice we took a step back when the door opened.

    What is the evidence that the vehicles were locked? Statements from the victims who would loose the insurance award if they admitted that they forgot to lock their vehicle?

    As another poster put it, these criminals are targeting vehicle contents; most of which are in the glove compartment.

    1. Re:Thumb by workactnumberfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The incident with the guy with the backpack is even more telling. He was walking along trying doors till he found one unlocked. Notice we took a step back when the door opened.

      He is walking by cars, hitting the button on his device. If you watch it again, you'll see that as he walks by, the lights in the car go on before he touches it...just like they do when you hit your unlock button on the keyfob. When that happens, he then backs up to enter the vehicle, as it is now unlocked.

    2. Re:Thumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I watched the video again and sure enough, they're just opening unlocked doors. I was sure the backpack guy was past the door, but no. His hand was still on the handle when the dome light came on. Mr Home Security Camera forgot to lock his door.

    3. Re:Thumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interior lights came on before the door was tried.

    4. Re:Thumb by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Maybe the guy was just looking for a car vulnerable to this attack, trying each car in turn. It seems to be very short range. Trying the handle might just be the device not working the first time and having to trigger it again. The video quality is too poor to really see anything.

      If there is no-one in my Mitsubishi it locks itself after about a minute. Unless you leave something heavy on a seat so it thinks there is someone sitting there it is impossible to leave it unlocked.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      His hand is on the door handle as he walks by. The inside lights come on when the door is unlatched as well as when the remote is used.

    6. Re:Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Hence the fact it works on some cars and not others. Opening an unlocked door does not work on cars that automatically lock their doors.

    7. Re:Thumb by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Where are my mod points....

      Mod this post UP folks..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    8. Re:Thumb by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You still need to physically open the door? Presumably the device can be activated with the off hand.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    9. Re:Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Thanks

    10. Re:Thumb by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine built his own, simple alarm system. The alarm sounds when a door handle is pulled. He reasoned that most thieves will try that first.

    11. Re:Thumb by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      What is the evidence that the vehicles were locked? Statements from the victims who would loose the insurance award if they admitted that they forgot to lock their vehicle?

      In the USA, not locking your car (or your house) is not grounds for insurance to deny a theft claim.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    12. Re:Thumb by PRMan · · Score: 1

      The news circled the wrong hand. He clearly has something in his left hand/pocket that he is pushing before trying the door with his right hand.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    13. Re:Thumb by msauve · · Score: 1

      This.

      On both my cars (Toyota, Audi), locking or unlocking with the fob causes the marker lights to blink. I think most cars are the same. I don't see that happening in the video - just the interior lights coming on when the door handle is pulled or the door opened.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    14. Re:Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      One can not his left hand at all in the first video.

    15. Re:Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Exactly my point. I bet someone will say that it only opened the one lock and didn't trip the whole system. I would call that reaching. If the interior light came on due to remote access so would the marker lights.

    16. Re:Thumb by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      walking by a car, then walking back when the lighs go on, is quite odd and suspicious. I suppose the locks in question are still mechanical (the actual locking mechanism), so you walk towards the car, press the button, and hear if it unlocks or not before you're actually at the passenger door.

    17. Re:Thumb by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Notice that the inside light came on but the outside marker lights didn't. That only happens if the door handle is tried. If the lock had been remotely activated the marker lights would have come on.

  15. I almost expect... by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

    unlock = true;
    try {
    if (!rxkeycode()) { unlock = false; }
    } catch { }
    if (unlock) { unlock_the_door(); }

    Short of having found a "master keycode", I'd suspect something analogous to the above. Pretty much find any type of problem in the hypothetical rxkeycode() and you win, if that's how it's implemented. The cars it doesn't work on... either the triggered bug doesn't happen, or the logic starts with "unlock=false" blah blah blah.

    Would be interesting to know, not that they'll ever tell.

    --

    help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  16. I had my car robbed once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It had nothing in it.

    Trollin the trolls.

    1. Re:I had my car robbed once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a 80 something ford Fiesta and usually left it unlocked. In the back was an $10 air compressor that was broken. I don't know when the person took it out of my car, but I found it in a field near my house.

      Likely the only thing missing out of that car. Literally drove it till it fell apart. The body at least, that engine wasn't even close to dead.

  17. Keypad by bhcompy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My 1986 Nissan Maxima had a keypad. I keyed in a code(of my choosing, plugged in at the dealership) and it unlocked my driver door, all my doors, my trunk, etc. I loved it because I could stash my keys in the trunk when I was doing something where I didn't want to keep my keys with me(like going to the gym) and just punch my key in when I wanted access. Sadly, this never caught on. I like it much better than fobs(other than remote start in cold weather).

    1. Re:Keypad by Punchcardz · · Score: 1

      My folks had the same car when I was a kid. It was great because we never had to beg the parents for the keys if we wanted to go wait in the car when we were somewhere, we just had the code.

    2. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't say that it never caught on. Most Fords and Lincolns have a keypad on the driver's door. I wouldn't be without this feature.

    3. Re:Keypad by organgtool · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My friend had a keypad on his garage door opener with a four-digit code. One day he invited me and another friend over, but he didn't answer the door when we got there. Calling his house line also proved futile. We figured he fell asleep before we got there (which turned out to be the case). However, while we were waiting, the friend who was stuck outside with me started punching numbers on the garage keypad. I tried telling him that there were 10,000 possible combinations, but that didn't dissuade him. After a few seconds, the garage door opened up. I asked him how he knew the code and he pointed out that four of the numbers on the keypad were very worn. I did the math and realized that his observation took the number of possible combinations from 10,000 to 24! The point is, be careful with those keypads and change the numbers periodically if possible.

    4. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The keypads dont even need to be worn, just look for the 4 cleanest buttons.. all the ones that havent been pushed in a while will have a layer of dirt on em just from being outside.

    5. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just fyi for any other maths people. That's an exclamation point, not a factorial.

    6. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually order mattering but being able to repeat the same key twice brings you up to 256 (4^4). Requiring keys be different though means 4! or 24.

    7. Re:Keypad by commodore73 · · Score: 1

      I wonder if they patented something and the other car companies didn't want to license it.

    8. Re:Keypad by organgtool · · Score: 2

      My friend knew beforehand that the code was four digits long and there were four worn keys, therefore it was highly unlikely that any of the digits were repeated.

    9. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did the math and realized that his observation took the number of possible combinations from 10,000 to 24!

      Wow 24 factorial. That's amazing that your friend was able get the code in such a short time.

    10. Re:Keypad by Wallslide · · Score: 1

      A relatively easy way to defeat such an attack is to have LCD-based numbers, and have the number location change each time the keypad is turned on. I've stayed in places with such security, although until now I just figured it was to prevent other people from figuring out your code by watching where you press. Preventing key-wear due to consistent use seems like a much better reason to have such a system.

    11. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      four of the numbers on the keypad were very worn. I did the math and realized that his observation took the number of possible combinations from 10,000 to 24!

      6.204484e+23 combinations? I think your math is wrong.

    12. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And NOW I realize 24! people already made a factorial joke. I will see myself out.

    13. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's math! No, I don't care if you drink tea.

    14. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The benefits to touch screens compared to buttons is that the software can randomly rearrange the numbers to prevent this.

    15. Re:Keypad by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      If the keys aren't worn (metal keys, for instance), blow a bit of corn starch or other fine powder on them. The finger oil residue will cause it to stick.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    16. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did the math and realized that his observation took the number of possible combinations from 10,000 to 24!

      The mathematician in me says you should avoid putting an exclamation point after a number, because at first it didn't make sense that the number of combinations went from 10 000 to 24 factorial.

    17. Re:Keypad by WillgasM · · Score: 1

      I've never tried it, but apparently you can brute force one of those within a half hour.

    18. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And new keypads are vulnerable to a little bit of pencil eraser on each key. The keys which are used will lose the eraser dust. Voila, narrowed down. Don't rely on keypads for anything important, at least not 3-4 digit ones.

    19. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The keypad on my garage is like that. you can tell that I used the 0,1,3 & 4 keys. But it won't do you any good because at least one of them doesn't work any more. This reminds me that I need a new keypad.

    20. Re:Keypad by bhcompy · · Score: 1

      Of course a 4 digit code with non-repeating numbers is bad. My code was 6 digits long with only 3 numbers used for the doors, 7 and 4 for the trunk. With unknowable length and the combination unknown, just knowing that 4 digits on the 10 digit keypad were worn doesn't make it easy to brute force simply because repeating digits with unknown length throws everything to hell from a manual entry perspective.

    21. Re:Keypad by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      If the keypad will accept the code with extra digits entered before it you can cut down the number of combinations also. I remember seeing the entire string of digits to try every 3 digit combination in an old 2600 magazine a while ago. For example, trying 112 followed by 113 also gives you the code 211 in there as well as 121 etc. There is a way to reorder the digits to cover every possible combination without duplicating so many digits. It still might take awhile to do every combination, and it only works if the reader accepts the code when seen in any situation. If it takes 4 digits and resets for another attempt it would not work. I think the article was about getting the remote access code to an answering machine.

      I found an online article covering this topic here.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    22. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that's exactly why I use the max (6) instead of the min (4) on our house keypad.
      And rotate periodically, using new random sequence generated from desktop.
      Although I've rolled a new 6 digit number before when I got one that basically just used 2 keys.

    23. Re:Keypad by bhcompy · · Score: 1

      How is that any less secure? How do "they" know you have a 6 digit combination?

    24. Re:Keypad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Android swipe-to-unlock code is pretty visible by looking at the screen on an angle and looking at the greasy finger marks. I can unlock most of my friend's phones without knowing pattern using the same method.

  18. the theives read that paper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.calcshop.com/images/Analysis_Keyless-entry.pdf

  19. Practical application of the 2007 hack? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone found a way to weaponize the 2007 attack? http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/2007/08/28/6345961-researchers-say-theyve-hacked-car-door-locks?lite

  20. You must not be familiar with keyless by 1800maxim · · Score: 5, Informative

    A driver carries a pass, a credit card sized remote (or a keyless fob). As the driver approaches the vehicle, the vehicle scans the remote and is ready to unlock if you touch the handle. The door handle also has a sensor where your thumb goes. As soon as you touch it, and if the vehicle registers the keyless remote, the door is opened.

    Such cars (usually) have push-button start systems that also work based on the proximity of the keyless remote.

    It is very convenient if your hands are full and you want to open the rear door, for example, without having to search your pocket and fumble with buttons.

    Approach the car, open the handle, press the button - drive. No need to even touch the key/remote, which sits in your wallet or pocket.

    1. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Very few cars have that right now and I doubt any of those in the video do.

    2. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must not be familiar with slashdot. The summary and the article don't match.

      The article describes a hack for "remote keyless entry", which is where the user is required to push a button on an "electronic key fob" to unlock the car door.

      But you and the summary are describing "smart key systems", which is where the user can often start the car just by having an electronic smart key in the car.

      Further, you are confused because you seem to thing that because some models of the smart key system have the auto-unlock feature you describe, you seem to think that therefore all models have an auto-unlock feature. You are incorrect.

    3. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 2

      My 2013 Ford Escape does exactly this.

      It also opens the back hatch if you kick your foot under the back bumper when the key is in your pocket, which is very handy. The owner's manual warns you about having the key in your pocket when washing the vehicle, though -- if you spray water under the rear bumper you could suddenly have the hatch opening. I always leave the key in the driver's cupholder when washing it to avoid that problem.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    4. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by swb · · Score: 1

      My 2007 Volvo S80 does this.

      If you walk up to the locked car without the keyfob and pull on the handle nothing happens, the door will not open. If I have the keyfob the door just appears to be unlocked.

      The only opening on one side thing is curious -- the car settings menu has a door unlock choice -- you can choose how many doors to unlock when you open the driver's side door -- driver's only, all driver's side, or all doors.

      The keyfob works on all the doors (ie, you can open any of them), but I wonder if whatever is exploited doesn't involve the car's idea of where the keyfob is relative to the car.

      Or maybe there's some kind of back door code that only works on the passenger side, the idea being that exploits would target the driver's side first or only.

    5. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by Pulzar · · Score: 1

      Actually, quite a few do, at least in North America. Certainly just about every Acura, and probably many Hondas.

      Even my few years old Altima has it...

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    6. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very few? Only the lowest-end cars produced now DON'T have these features.

      All luxury cars (Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc), and most of the fleet of good car brands (Nissan, Toyata, etc) have had "smart key" proximity key fobs becoming standard equipment over the last 5 years or so.

      The last 3 cars my wife & I have owned have had smart keys (proximity entry, push button start)

      You may be living in the past.

    7. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Of 5 Acura models in Canada only 2 have smart entry.

    8. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recently saw something on TV where thieves would drive up to a car they wanted, then one would get out of the car they came in, and push a button, which would unlock the car, and start the engine. There was no broken glass, no looks by bystanders, as no one was doing anything unusual. They would look around to see that there are no bystanders so owners don't start yelling and running after their hot wheels. The two would just drive away. If there was an OnStar(tm) antenna, they would tape a metal hood over it, so lojacking by OnStar would be disabled (no GPS tracking).

    9. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very few cars have that right now and I doubt any of those in the video do.

      It is standard on every Prius, and standard on all but the basest of models in the Mazda line.

    10. Re:You must not be familiar with keyless by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      I think you really need to do a little research before posting. According to the Mazda site the system is generally an option and not standard. The following line appears in the interior features section of most vehicle except the Mazda2;

      Available Mazda Advanced Keyless Entry & Start System and Welcome Lighting System

      In vehicle terms "available" means optional. The only models that have it standard is the "CX-9 Grand Touring" model.

  21. Yawn by dhun · · Score: 1

    Boring...

  22. Acura = Honda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Guys guys, Acura is a Honda brand. If it's working on Acura, it likely works on all Honda cars, trucks, vans, bikes, etc.

    In fact, watching the video ... all those cars mentioned are Honda brands.

    Okay so that tells us the device works on Honda. Now what is in common with Honda that isn't with other brands? What is the significance of the passenger side?

    If you have ever had a keyless fob, you'll know there's usually four things
    1. Unlock drivers side door
    2. Unlock all doors
    3. Unlock trunk
    4. Light/Alarm/Honk (to locate it in a parking lot)

    Note there isn't a "unlock passenger side only"

    Now look on youtube at how to program a remote. Clearly the car can be told to learn a new remote code without a dealer.

    So this suggests to me that some of the following might be true:
    a) The thieves are transmitting a code that the car already has, eg a "master key"
    b) The thieves are transmitting something to make the car "add" their fob code
    c) The thieves are transmitting a "debug" code or "dealer" code that isn't in a normal key fob
    d) The thieves are transmitting codes something like the buffer-overflow bug in Honda brands's keyless entry systems to unlock the passenger side
    e) The thieves are transmitting something to a component in the door that then unlocks
    f) The thieves transmit something that makes the car itself unlock the door as part of the reset process

    or g) The thieves cloned the transmitter.

    As for why the passenger side and not the drivers side. Drivers side's often have tones or signals (eg door is ajar) where as the passenger side does not until a key is in the ignition.

    1. Re:Acura = Honda by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      As for why pasenger door, they stand outside the car and rifle through the glove box and center console. That's easier from the passenger side.

  23. Hella Old News by redshirt · · Score: 1
  24. Second Click.... by David_Hart · · Score: 1

    I know with my Nissan, and I believe that all cars are the same, you need to press on the unlock button twice to unlock the passenger doors. Perhaps there is something in that sequence that allows them to create a shortcut sequence that opens the passenger doors.

    For example, maybe there is something in the "lock" code that is sent to lock all of the doors that triggers the start of the "unlock passenger doors" sequence and all it is waiting for is the extra code from the second key press.

    1. Re:Second Click.... by ThePeices · · Score: 1

      I know with my Nissan, and I believe that all cars are the same, you need to press on the unlock button twice to unlock the passenger doors..

      Not all cars. In my car ( 2006 model), pressing the unlock button unlocks all doors ( except the boot, which has its own unlock button on the keyfob )

    2. Re:Second Click.... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      If you know the unlock codes (which these criminals apparently do), it's not too hard to simulate the "second click" in your device: on keypress send first-click-code, wait a moment, send second-click-code. Those issues are quite trivial after getting through the, presumably, well encrypted unlock sequence.

  25. Factory fobs - 3rd party security systems still ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DSI - one of the largest manufacturers of 3rd party Security and Remote start equipment fobs are still fine.

  26. Passenger side. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They probably go for that side because the glove box is on that side.

  27. NXP seems to be the common factor by burne · · Score: 1

    NXP, google it yourself, don't believe me. NXP's Mifare is insecure, used in Oyster, OV-Chip and a few other very large deployments. Similar weak chipsets are found inside key fobs. Similar problems. Trivially exploitable. Just listening and some knowledge of the platform is enough to predict the next 'secure' exchange. And steal the car. Embarrassing: the next car could as well be a extremely expensive Mercedes Benz S-class.

  28. Here is what I've heard by BugNuker · · Score: 1

    From what I've read, this is how the attack works: Keyfob on certain cars unlock your car where you "in range" of the car. For example, you leave key fob in your pocket, and when you get to your car, in unlocks. I have heard that this attack is being done by "amplifying" the keyfob signal. The keyfob is in the house, on a nightstand, who knows. If you can "boost" the signal of the key fob with some device, so its range is, say, 30 feet longer, then you should be able to unlock those cars, hell, even start them. once you are out of range, you could never re-start the car. This is an interesting theory.

  29. Radio jamming by CloneRanger · · Score: 1

    It was in a paper I read not too long ago that thieves use a radio jammer so that the car never gets the signal to lock. Some cars lock the doors silently and some do it with a short honk of the horn. So, if its the type that is silent, then most people never notice the car did not lock when they pushed the button and walked away.

    1. Re:Radio jamming by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      My 2013 Ford Escape beeps the horn if I lock it with the remote. If I push the buttons on the keypad beside the driver's door to lock it, a light flashes on the driver's side outside mirror but the horn doesn't beep. Either way a small yellow "locked" light turns on in the center of the dashboard under the radio.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
  30. One time pad? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Presumably the way this works is that the car and the key fob are loaded with an algorithm and a short key. It is possible by brute force to find the key, given a recording of a few transactions and knowledge of the algorithm.

    But a micro SD card can store four gigabytes of key data now, which should be good for the life of the system, so maybe the next step is to embed a one time pad in both the key fob and the car security system.

    1. Re:One time pad? by wolfemi1 · · Score: 1

      But a micro SD card can store four gigabytes of key data now, which should be good for the life of the system, so maybe the next step is to embed a one time pad in both the key fob and the car security system.

      Erm... I don't think this would be necessarily a good idea. If you move out of range of the car and use the fob, you can record a copy of the next key that will be used in the sequence, and then broadcast it back. Not only would that allow you to unlock the car, but it immediately borks the key fob as well....

    2. Re:One time pad? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2

      But a micro SD card can store four gigabytes of key data now, which should be good for the life of the system, so maybe the next step is to embed a one time pad in both the key fob and the car security system.

      Erm... I don't think this would be necessarily a good idea. If you move out of range of the car and use the fob, you can record a copy of the next key that will be used in the sequence, and then broadcast it back. Not only would that allow you to unlock the car, but it immediately borks the key fob as well....

      But surely its a challenge response thing:

      key -> car (lets talk)

      car -> key (random challenge number)

      key -> car (challenge combined with key)

      In this case the challenge would be an index into the array of key values stored at both ends.

    3. Re:One time pad? by cryptizard · · Score: 1

      Actually the one-time pad doesn't work super well for things like that. If you observe the challenge number and the response (challenge combined with key) then you can trivially retrieve the key, since all three things are linearly related. You actually need something somewhat "stronger" than the one-time pad: a random permutation. Unfortunately, the key space for a random permutation is doubly exponential in the size (compared to singly exponential with OTP) so it is even less practical. In real life, block ciphers are made to approximate random permutations so that is usually what is used in these kinds of protocols.

    4. Re:One time pad? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      For the car and key: you may want a set of say one million codes, each for one time use. When used, a code is invalidated. These codes are say 50 digits long, so to randomly guess one of the still unused codes is nearly impossible, you'd have to correctly guess at least in the order 44 digits. And of course if a code or two is found skipped, the car just disables all intermediate codes as well. One million not enough? Have it refreshed every time the car goes for a check up.

      Now the attacker: intercepting a code on say a busy beach doesn't help, attacker does not know which car it belongs to, or where that car is. You'd have to intercept a code out of range of the car, then go to the car (so you also have to know where to find the car that belongs to the code), and replay it. Then you may unlock that specific car. Doable, but really hard.

  31. How about a simple explanation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's a thought; these guys don't have some magic tech. They've pick pocketed keys and are actually using the correct device to get into the car. They walk around the area hitting the button until a car (or the right model if they're smart) lights up and then go take stuff out of it. They don't take the car because it's bigger criminal charges and it's difficult to offload unless you do that sort of thing for a living.

    1. Re:How about a simple explanation? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Interesting theory, but if you watch the videos the thieves are targeting specific vehicles.

      Not to mention, I think most people would notice their keys had been stolen when they, you know, try to unlock something (like the front door to their homes).

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  32. A new low. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot gets a story from the Today Show.

    1. Re:A new low. by Macman408 · · Score: 1

      That's not a new low - it's a new high! All the other articles around here are from the Yesterday Show.

  33. Amazing New Software by TheRecklessWanderer · · Score: 1

    I have created some amazing new software that will allow entry to virtually all vehicles. It's called Crowbar 1.0 and it is available in your trunk today.

    --
    Mean what you say...say what you mean.
    1. Re:Amazing New Software by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      Many modern cars have no spare tire so I assume they have no Crowbar 1.0 either. It saves weight and you don't want n00bs trying to change a car tire, especially on the side of a road.

    2. Re:Amazing New Software by airdweller · · Score: 1

      "you don't want n00bs trying to change a car tire"

      wait. changing a tire requires the person to be l33t now?

  34. Not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People have been using these for at least a decade. People used to walk through my neighborhood at 2am and screw around with these things and unlock random cars. They'd hit the button and every few tries a random car would respond.

  35. Thinking out of the box - Jamming the close signal by quilombodigital · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A better theory would be that the guys just placed a device in the neighbourhood earlier, that JAMS the signal that closes the car door. Most users wouldnt notice, since they just turn back and start walking while pressing the lock button. AFAIK, it is easier to JAM a signal than to decrypt it. :) A small device with a 2W amplifier could cover a range from 500mts easily.

  36. Because that's where the glove box is! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "And they always seem to strike on the passenger side"

    Because that's where the glove box is! If that correlation is so hard then no wonder they are stumped.

  37. Sorry, not everything on the Today show is "news" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In fact, I'd say none of it is.

    April 5, 2013: http://news.msn.com/science-technology/high-tech-car-thieves-break-into-vehicles-without-leaving-a-trace
    May, 2013: http://www.kpho.com/story/22176874/new-auto-theft-device

    And it is perennial:
    July, 2012: http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/transportation/stories/computerized-cars-are-easy-prey-for-high-tech-thieves
    2008-2011, Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp

    Today is the last show I would consider to have current news. (Used to watch it daily... now CBS This Morning is the closest thing to real news in the AM, IMVHO.)

  38. Back door password by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    Obviously there is a back door in it. The thieves have figured out the code that is embedded in there that will open up to that.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  39. A funny incident by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Once I locked my Nissan Primera and the alarm in another car went off. At first I thought it was just a coincidence but when I went back and locked the doors again and the same thing happened, it became evident that my key indeed interfered with another car triggering its alarm. A friend and I then got the chance to have some fun when the owner of the other car showed up and we could make him wonder why his car alarm went off every time he touched a shopping cart.

  40. Passenger side = plausible deniability by Wokan · · Score: 1

    If the owner of the car is near enough that they see their car's headlights blink from the unlocking, seeing someone standing by the driver's side door would appear to be intent to steal the car. Someone standing by the passenger side could more realistically feign ignorance or claim they were just going to steal belongings from inside the car (likely avoiding the grand theft felony).

    1. Re:Passenger side = plausible deniability by PPH · · Score: 1

      Or just keep walking if the door fails to unlock. If they are seen stepping into the street next to several cars before they get a hit, it looks pretty suspicious.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Passenger side = plausible deniability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Burglary (that is, entry into a structure without the owners permission) is a felony as well. At least here in NJ. IANAL, but posting anon because I speak from experience :(

  41. I'd like to tell them but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would provide the car companies with the technology and method with which I have been able to bypass the security but then you'd proceed to put me in jail for hacking into the system.
    It's a shame too because there's such a simple way of closing off this security hole.
    Perhaps the company will figure it out too... In 5+ years.

    In related news I've also figured out how to isolate and block all cyber attacks from around the world, what the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices are and most importantly... How cadbury gets the caramel filling into their caramilk bar. True

  42. Solution to keyless remote entry.. by dgharmon · · Score: 1

    The device uses an EMP to trigger the unshielded electronics in the car, that's why it has to be brought near. Else there's a back-door in these devices that the criminal element got hold of.

    --
    AccountKiller
  43. honey pot profits by mspring · · Score: 1

    Set up honey pot cars, catch the thieves, charge them for the honey pot expenses and some more: Profit!
    Self-financing mechanism to reduce car thefts.

  44. jailbreak != breaking encryption by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    The encryption on these devices was not broken. It was bypassed due to a software vulnerability.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:jailbreak != breaking encryption by AaronLS · · Score: 2

      Exactly, jailbreaking a phone is a completely different animal, because within the device somewhere is the private key, and it is only hidden through obfuscation. Just like a desktop, you have access to the complete system, and it's just a matter of time, skill, and effort to pulling it a part and either finding the private key or bypassing.

      On the other hand, a proper keyless system has the private key in the FOB, and assuming all the components of the system are properly implemented using well established security standards, then there should be no FEASIBLE way to defeat the cryptography in a short amount of time without physically stealing/breaking open a FOB or physically modifying the vehicle.

      In the phone case, the manufacturer wants to prevent you from breaking into the phone, but they handed you the private key inside the phone. In the case of the vehicle, only you the owner carry the private key in your FOB, and the criminals do not have that. Unfortunately there's probably alot of vehicles with vulnerabilities or not even an architecture that could laughably be called security.

  45. Leased Vehicles? by edelbrp · · Score: 1

    Dealerships often install a box to override some car's functions, like preventing it from starting, in case the lessee stops making their payments. They also give the dealership GPS locations for the car. (This was featured on Car Lot Rescue recently.) It wouldn't surprise me if there was also a door-lock override so they could more easily do a repo.

    For that matter, what about OnStar? So keeping score, I'm counting 6 ways to get into a car: it was unlocked (duh), physical key entry, regular remote fob, remote dealership, remote OnStar, and accident detection. I guess you could throw into the mix forced entry (breaking window, slim jim, sun roof, etc.)

  46. let me help by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    "Police and security experts say they are 'stumped.'"
    Let me help: Car makers just don't give a fuck and they have zero background in security. It's the combination of that.

  47. very old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I talked with several guys in Germany who did this more than two years ago. Nice to see the mainstream media catching up.

  48. Saw That Report - Check The Internet by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    I saw that report and the first thing I thought was "have any of these 'baffled' people done some searching online?" I'm guessing these thieves aren't technological geniuses who all come up with the same amazing technology all on their own. Chances are, there's some underground site that either shows you how to make this device or, more likely, sells it.

    Sure enough, someone here posted a link to a "universal unlocker" sold from China for $25. If that's the device these crooks are using then they just "invest" a small amount of money and can quietly and quickly rob valuables from dozens of cars.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:Saw That Report - Check The Internet by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      I'll bet that Chinese universal unlocker was built using stolen USA plans ;-)

  49. Re:Thinking out of the box - Jamming the close sig by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    A better theory would be that the guys just placed a device in the neighbourhood earlier, that JAMS the signal that closes the car door. Most users wouldnt notice, since they just turn back and start walking while pressing the lock button. AFAIK, it is easier to JAM a signal than to decrypt it. :) A small device with a 2W amplifier could cover a range from 500mts easily.

    I have the habit of always hitting the lock button twice, and making sure I hear the horn. That way I know my truck is locked.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  50. spark gap by pbjones · · Score: 1

    maybe it's just a high voltage spark from a piezo device, like a gas oven lighter or cigarette lighter. It upsets the electronics and causes the door to unlock. Used to work on a type of public telephone, why not some types of alarm systems?

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  51. Going On For Years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Car thieves have been doing this at the Jersey Gardens Mall in Elizabeth , NJ for at least 2-3 years. Security and presumably the local police know about it.

    From what I have heard, the advice is -not- use your remote control to lock the doors. Apparently, the door unlocks immediately after you lock it with the remote. After you lock it again, they can then unlock it later.

    Hopefully the publicity will finally force all of the car manufacturers to implement proper security, and retrofit it to all vehicles made since the time they were first notified of the problem.

    Security through obscurity has never worked for mass production goods.

    1. Re:Going On For Years by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      And there's another blog entry on it: Where Things Fall Apart: Protocols (Part 2 of 2)

      The summary is that there's a mutual authentication key (MAK) that should be different for each vehicle on the road, however if some manufacturer has taken a short cut and used the same key on a large number of vehicles then all those cars are at risk, and looking at the article it seems to be the case - the device works for some vehicles but not other.

      As for their habit of going in on the passenger side - that's where the glove compartment is and where it's likely that some valuables are found.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  52. should be simple by kallen3 · · Score: 1

    just have a wide spectrum receiver, enough samples and a powerful enough computer and you are in. Just leave a datalogger connected to the receiver, collect the sample, decrypt it with a laptop, set up a transmitter to run through the possible challenge & response codes and you're in.

  53. Done two years ago and published. by erikscott · · Score: 1

    Keyless entry that uses proximity to a wireless fob, and that explicitly does not require a button press to activate, has been well and thoroughly cracked and the exploit published. The basic idea to use two bent-pipe analog repeaters to fool the car into thinking your fob is right beside the car and not currently inside Wal-Mart (or in this case, Tessco perhaps?) where the accomplice is standing somewhat close to you and the fob in your pocket.

    Oh lookie... here's the popular-press article right here.

  54. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, I'm biased, and I'll admit it but I don't get the fucking point of keyless entry security, much less car alarms. Unlike some of the well-to-do persons who drive vehicles expensive enough to have/justify security systems, I've been under, on, and inside the components of a car for far too long. I don't care what the automotive industry likes to say, no new advances have come to cars in the last 30 years. The last new item was airbags (and they are of questionable usefulness for the amount of a pain they are to service), and those are from the late 80s. Once you take out the shiny in dash stereo/gps/dvd-player, a car is still just an internal combustion engine, connected to a twelve volt battery (by bolts if your lucky, alligator clips if your not, and crumpled sheetmetal the closer you get to hicksville), and turning some kind of gearbox, with a clutch if they can drive, and a slushbox if they can't. This is connected to wheel hubs, and spins as fast as regular gasoline and regular air can enter the intake manifold times the ratio of teeth on the gears. Nothing fundamental changes between a new bugatti, and an old beetle, though the interior might need to get some crap peeled away first.

    Any actual car is precisely what I described, and contrary to popular belief, engines like to burn gasoline and run, so if you provide one rotation of the flywheel, and fuel to the fuel rail, the car will go, security systems/steering wheel lock/automatic transmission, with gear lockout be damned. The doors of a car also haven't changed, and though sufficent to keep out the lazy, or unwilling, will open with a crowbar, and some force, and the alarm system is toast if the battery is already disconnected. All this can be done with physical access, simple tools, and knowledge of the fact that a car/van/truck is still just an ICE with a steel cable that moves to let air in.

    People keep bringing up self driving cars, except we already have those. A Prius or a Smart-Fortwo actually needs computer intervention, because you have to manipulate current to make it move, though the brakes, transmissions (CVTs are an oddball, but it's still basically helical gears and a slushbox), and cooling haven't changed. Every time a new form of traction control, or ABS, or cruise control, or the stupid Prius "you can't push the gas and brake at the same time" bullshit comes out, they just take one more driver function, and automate it. The car doesn't change, but the people slowly lose the ability to think or operate an ICE independently. Finding people who can drive a manual is hard, and finding people who can understand the idea that the engine can spin while the wheels don't is even harder. God help the drivers who get to drive with this new breed of morons, who don't understand that brakes on a car don't have any magic in them that makes them any better than bicycle brakes, and need to be treated as such or that, no matter how shiny the interior is, the engine still needs oil, water, and gasoline to make it move and will believe it or not, let you know it's health by the level of fluids it needs, and the color of its exhaust.

  55. I think someone once said.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A hacker, but I forget who... someone said If it has code, it can be hacked.

  56. A far simpler explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have simpler explanation that doesn't require a wall of text. They are opening the passenger side, because that is where the glove box is and people typically stash valuables on or under the passengers seat.

    1. Re:A far simpler explanation by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      I have simpler explanation that doesn't require a wall of text. They are opening the passenger side, because that is where the glove box is and people typically stash valuables on or under the passengers seat.

      Yeah, I'm sure the police have turned to the public because they didn't consider that, and out of all the security footage they have, would be unaccustomed to the typical behavior of car thieves, so when they say something is unusual (like always opening from the passenger door and always wearing a backpack) it's probably some totally obvious reason any anonymous coward sipping on his beer in his mother's basement could crack.

      Whereas my answer offers an explanation that wouldn't be obvious to a typical law enforcement officer, provides enough detail for the typical law enforcement officer to follow up on to verify, and a likely profile of the attacker so they can narrow their search. And all before my morning beer in my mother's basement.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
  57. 2-Factor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Mazda6 w/ keyless start has a rare second factor to prevent theft.

    See, after you get in, there's a kill switch on the floor in the form of a 3rd pedal.

    Further, once the car is started, the operator has to both hold down that pedal AND select a particular gear with a completely different lever . . .

    This keeps my car safe from not only theft, but from my wife or anyone else borrowing it as well. Totally safe as long as I stay in North America.

  58. Using Information Readily Available by muskyhunter · · Score: 2

    The assumption in the article is that the thief has a device that contains the "magic code" to open car doors. In 2011 the Network and Distributed System Security Symposium presented a paper titled "Relay Attacks on Passive Keyless Entry and Start Systems in Modern Cars ( reference http://www.internetsociety.org/events/ndss-symposium-2011-0) discusses this very topic. A direct link to the paper is http://www.internetsociety.org/sites/default/files/franc.pdf The relay attack seems more feasible to explain this phenomenon, where parking locations or specific vehicles are targeted rather than randomly targeting vehicles. In the paper, section 5 does the best to describe an attack scenario that might best explain the thieves mechanism. A thief will exploit with what is readily available. Apparently, like a card scanner, they are able to capture the original key fob signal and present it in another form.

  59. Ghost Dog could do this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Years ago, if I recall...

  60. Auto theft reported some time back.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm certain I read a story a few years ago about people whose cars were stolen. Because the cars had radio key fobs, their insurance companies refused to pay out, claiming they must have left their keys in the cars, as everyone "knew" that RFID key fobs were perfect security that no crime ring could ever overcome.

    IIRC the police eventualy located a stolen car that had lo-jac GPS installed, much to the surprise of the insurance companies.

  61. Driver Door by tomhorn · · Score: 1

    When you click once the driver door is unlocked. You have to click twice and all doors unlock. Must be two different programs and the hacker only needs the one. PureWaterHQ

  62. Clear up a few things. by ak47gen · · Score: 1

    RKE fobs are usually made by different manufactures that use 315 MHZ (for North America). The one I tested with was made by Texas Instruments which I assume most Ford vehicles use. The signal usually consist of 3 parts; small amount of Bits for the manufacture code, followed by a large security code which is encrypted and rolling, and another small amount of Bits for the function (unlock, lock, panic, trunk). The rolling code only cycles so many times and would not be easy even if you had a device that was able to brute-force it. Since they are using the passenger's side door they are probably using a new method exploitable to flawed vehicles or just people doing insurance fraud. I would assume this method involves overloading the circuit. If anything I would reach out too Texas Instruments and see what they have to say, since they probably created most of the technology behind the RKE fobs. Below I posed a link to an example of a RKE fob made by TI and a link to a video I made in 2009. http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slws011d/slws011d.pdf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l24mgY2Ro8g

  63. Take my car...please by chrisinspace · · Score: 1

    They can have my POS TSX. What a lemon...