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Ask Slashdot: Getting Exchange and SQL Experience?

First time accepted submitter william.meaney1 writes "I'm the sole network admin at a 25 person company. I was lucky enough to get the opportunity less than a year after getting a technical degree in IT. I've had some huge opportunities here (for a first time network admin). After my schooling, I went ahead and I'm now CompTIA A+, Network+, and CCNA certified. Now, being hired out of school, I was grateful for the job, and the boss hired me for peanuts (Less than $30,000/year) I've been living at home, using that money for loan payments, car payments, and certification expenses. I've started looking for other work, and I feel more than qualified for most of the requirements I'm seeing. The big hurdle I'm coming across that EVERYONE seems to want is experience with SQL databases, and Microsoft Exchange. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for getting usable experience on a low budget. I have some SQL experience, I deployed a source control program here that uses a SQL express backend, but what else do you need to know for database maintenance?"

293 comments

  1. Just do it by gewalker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Install some critical app (without permission if necessary) on your current corp. network that uses SQL server -- Presto, instant experience.

    1. Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trail by fire. I like it.

    2. Re:Just do it by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well to avoid getting the experience of getting yelled at for being stupid.
      You can get Microsoft SQL Server Express. While it doesn't have some advanced features it does have enough to give you some experience.
      Go threw Micorosfts SQL Server Management Studio, and Check out each feature and do some test examples until you understand them.
      Make a Database, Add Tables, Create Views, Write TSQL Stored Procedures, Add triggers....
      Install an other Type of Database server. and create a Link Server. Try to get them all to work togeter.
      If you don't know how hit F1 for Help or Google it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Just do it by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Meh, I actually agree, I've seen worse. We have an instance of K2 workspace that is there so the former developer could learn it. SQL at least is something a lot of people know / care about. K2 is like biztalk's anus.

    4. Re:Just do it by Synerg1y · · Score: 0

      Aka go learn it yourself, your approach doesn't work for everyone. I'm sure that if he could do that he wouldn't be asking above said question. Not helpful.

    5. Re:Just do it by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Install some critical app

      Create some relatively small but interesting (to you) application. Being able to build a small application with a properly normalized database will put you head and shoulders above most people that call themselves DBA (especially the sql server crowd).

      Use it. Manage it. Trust it with important data. Get burned when you don't back it up properly.

      You can make a lot of useful mistakes on your own that you can learn from.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:Just do it by darkwing_bmf · · Score: 1

      I mostly agree, except for the critical part. Learn on the job. Make something non-critical you think others who work there will find useful. Then respond to their feedback and try to make it better. After a while you can either ask for a huge raise because you've demonstrated skills and created useful tools for your fellow employees, or look for another job and add those skills to your resume.

    7. Re:Just do it by Aryden · · Score: 1

      Normalization!?! You mean there are people other myself that actually know what this is? I swear, I've had to work on some horrible pieces of shit recently. Most not even able to meet 1NF.

    8. Re:Just do it by gewalker · · Score: 1

      Ah, but you miss the importance of making it a critical app -- The boss won't demand you remove it -- thus assuring the opportunity for getting admin experience.

    9. Re:Just do it by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 2

      Sometimes de-normalizing is better than normalization. It all depends on what you're requirements are. If you love normalization, then go work fro DMSI. They take normalization to the highest level.

    10. Re:Just do it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Wait till you find one in the 23rd normal form (or basically past the 3rd). You will long for the day when all you had to deal with is missing primary keys.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:Just do it by erpbridge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I see here on your resume that you have SQL experience. Can you tell me about some of the SQL deployments and experience that you were doing in your last job? How did you integrate that into your business requirements?"

      Its exactly THIS sort of question, which I'm getting a bit, which trips people up who self learn. I'm getting it with VMware... I had VMware experience building, maintaining, updating machines... but never anything server side, and never anything on the farm level of things like vMotion. After I was let go at end of contract after 5 years on build team/CMDB remediation team, all the interview screen questions tended to focus toward vmWare and Exchange. So, I went out, got myself a beefy machine, installed vSphere 5.1 on it, and have done quite a few things with it... but that experience means SQUAT when you're sitting in front of a board which includes interviewing manager, vmWare SME, and a couple other general members of the IT team who are trying to probe you for you BUSINESS level experience.

      There's a heck of a lot difference between test lab, and business level, and interviewers can ferret that out REAL quick.

    12. Re:Just do it by pastafazou · · Score: 4, Funny

      You keep following the path you're on, you're liable to get burned....

    13. Re:Just do it by DuckDodgers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the ability to learn on your own is itself a skill - and an essential one if you want to be good. Get SQL Server Express. Install it. Then use the official web documentation or a highly rated book on it. Start at page 1 and walk through the features. When it gets to a section on setting up foreign keys, use your SQL Server Express to set up foreign keys. When it describes backups, set up backups.

      However, this is only half the work required. If he can't point to work experience with SQL Server, then a lot of potential employers don't care what he claims to know from self-study.

    14. Re:Just do it by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      Then you are in the wrong industry.

      Being able to learn for yourself is kind of a requirement. Its not hard, and yes, anyone can do it ... assuming you're not lazy.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    15. Re:Just do it by Third+Normal+Form · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Setting up something like sharepoint is a good exercise, and is something that a lot of places use (and suffer with...).

      The express versions are free to download. Also look at dreamspark.com- if you have a .edu email, you can register an account and download full copies of most of the products. You wouldn't be licensed for production use, but the purpose of that program is for people to download and learn for free.

    16. Re:Just do it by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Create some relatively small but interesting (to you) application. Being able to build a small application with a properly normalized database will put you head and shoulders above most people that call themselves DBA (especially the sql server crowd).

      That's an orthogonal skill set.

      SQL admin skills are more about backup management, security, replication, clustering, performance, access controls, disaster recovery, performance monitoring, resource management ...

      You can be a fantastic schema designer and query writer and have virtually no clue about any of the above.

    17. Re:Just do it by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      I tend to pick stuff up as I work on it, but at that point I'm getting paid, to me it makes a huge difference. I could, but won't learn PHP for example, it wouldn't benefit me.

      As I said there's different learning approaches, not understanding that speaks very poorly of you.

    18. Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Err, you wrote about "certification expenses" so you got some money to spend.
      Perhaps Microsoft Technet subscription it is either $199 or $359 per 12 months.
      You get access to full (evaluation only) products including MS SQL Server 2012 and some online training materials.
      Build couple of virtual machines for "your own corporate network"(TM) and you can play with MS SQL and Exchange
      One, gaming grade PC with plenty of RAM should be enough.

    19. Re:Just do it by darkwing_bmf · · Score: 1

      An app doesn't have to be "critical" to make a positive difference.

    20. Re:Just do it by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Best way is if you can "drift" from existing skills to related ones. I started out as an implementation consultant, customers wanted custom reports so I got experience doing that. Using that I got a job managing a reporting solution, which had a back-end consolidating databases. That lead to another job in data warehousing and cube solutions, which led me to take the MSBI cerification (SSIS, SSAS, SSRS). That lead to another job where I'm now doing mostly data flow packages in Integration Services, not related to reporting or data warehousing. That's in ~10 years. Not really sure where I'm going from here but I doubt I'll do exactly the same for too long, if you get too narrow you get trapped by it. Like you've been a SAP consultant for 10 years and now nobody will hire you at a decent rate for anything but SAP consulting. Not going to happen to me.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    21. Re:Just do it by hemorex · · Score: 1

      From my experience, the kind of person who's going to "go out, get a beefy machine, install vSphere 5.1 on it, and do quite a few things with it," will always prove to be more useful when the _next_ big thing comes around. But then, I don't have much use for people who need to be told what to do.

    22. Re:Just do it by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Its exactly THIS sort of question, which I'm getting a bit, which trips people up who self learn.

      If you experienced with SQL extensively enough in a test lab: you should be able to answer the question, without necessarily revealing that this was all lab experience.

      Heck, your competitors for the job are probably bs'ing their way through questions like this. Exchange and SQL are mission critical applications. Few people really deserve to be able to say they have experience with them, and reach any level of expertise ---- most admins will just be relying on product vendor support, as in no troubleshooting abilities -- just relying on calling Microsoft right away, if they run into any problems or need to make changes to their deployment.

      The average exchange admin out there can reset passwords, create mailboxes, and run the GUI wizards, but couldn't tell you what "SMTP" is.

      The average SQL admin out there can use the SQL management studio, and do all sorts of things in the pretty GUI, which you can learn on a long weekend, but they couldn't write a line of T-SQL, if it slapped them in the face.

      There are plenty of programmers/developers with a large amount of SQL background, who don't have day to day DBA responsibilities, and maybe only worked with the development SQL servers used for their application testing work.

      SQL server, and VMware are not complicated software applications.

      You just need a few thousand (3000 to 4000) hours working with them in a reasonable lab setup, and a lot of patience, to get a base level of experience.

      However... some desktop PC running SQL or Vsphere does not a reasonable lab setup make.

      You really need components and equipment similar to what a large company would use for their deployment; real servers, SAN, etc, AND to run test workloads at a scale, with demands comparable to what an organization's production demand would be - and ways of simulating real-world workloads, spammers, performance requirements, and how well your servers are performing --- otherwise, you only really have 'limited experience' (that is: experience limited to the artificially small conditions imposed by small requirements).

      The cheapest way to accomplish that, is probably to work in IT for a large company that is able to allow you to use test lab equipment; or rent lab time.

    23. Re:Just do it by mysidia · · Score: 1

      You get access to full (evaluation only) products including MS SQL Server 2012 and some online training materials.

      You do... you get access to evaluation products that will never expire.

      You don't have to have a technet subscription to download evaluation editions of SQL, Exchange, and Windows, though.

      It's perfectly feasible to download and use these for evaluation and self-training: as long as you understand, the limitation being they timebomb after 90 days to 4 months, depending on product.

      That would be a killer annoyance for someone needing to do a proof of concept, demonstration, or pre-deployment testing, but for self training...... re-installing everything over again just gives you more experience, right?

      Maybe an opportunity to learn about automated methods of installation, and command-line/script-based methods of installation.

    24. Re:Just do it by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Wait till you find one in the 23rd normal form (or basically past the 3rd). You will long for the day when all you had to deal with is missing primary keys.

      High-numbered normal forms are for masochists. Stick with BCNF or 4NF. Go no higher.

    25. Re:Just do it by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      And if you run all of your servers on VMs, it can be easy to roll back to a state where you're ready to do the SQL/Exchange setup with the time limit again. The only that has made my toying with Windows systems tolerable is being able to torpedo them and go back to a nice known state I saved a snapshot of.

      Some eval software is smart enough to personally identify your hardware and generate a demo key based on it. If you ask for a second one, you won't get one for that hardware. The things used to collect that personally identifiable info are also easier to change on a VM install too. I have gotten around nagware that used the MAC address as a unique key for who has a demo license by just changing the MAC address on the VM. On Windows, knowing how you can modify a server without actually losing its activation is a real-world job skill too; it's not just cheapskate knowledge.

    26. Re:Just do it by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      You forgot a step. Prepare to be working for someone who expects to have every known version of SQL installed, and functioning, on the same Windows 3.5 machine.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    27. Re:Just do it by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Business level experience such as cost justification belongs to either the only sysadmin in the company, or the IT director in a large corp. Technicians have no reason to be concerned with that minutia other than pure reactive break fix work and proactive infrastructure maintenance.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    28. Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go threw?

      ffs, not a good look at all

    29. Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and herein lies the problem: management can't understand the difference between knowing a specific set of points & clicks, and knowing concepts & being able to pick up the nuances of given implementations readily. They focus too much on a specific application, and that is what trips people up, even those who assert that they learn rapidly and would love to learn the $implementation. Unfortunately at a lot of companies, that falls on deaf ears, and you are shown the door instead of being given an opportunity to prove your mettle.

    30. Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious if we just interviewed you; it sounds familiar (granted, this is standard practice). I'm looking to hire a Sr System Engineer and two System Engineers. I've always been of the mindset that you should really know a skill before putting it on your resume. I've seen some great resumes, tons of certs, but have yet to find a single candidate who could demonstrate more than surface level knowledge in 3/4 of their listed skill set. We've pretty much given up on finding a person who knows more than two areas (we've been looking for VMware, SCOM/SCCM/etc 2012, SAN, Citrix, Exchange, and general server maintenance) and have no misconception of finding anyone who knows all of those without an astronomical price tag.

    31. Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the same way I feel about any Microsoft technology. Sure I can learn it if necessary, but I can get paid almost twice as much for technologies I like MUCH more, that don't require inserting a permanent penis in my ass just to use it.

    32. Re:Just do it by LandGator · · Score: 1

      Find a nonprofit somewhere who needs help, for the Exchange and SQL experience. Learn the WAMP (Windows variant of the LAMP) stack and develop for said nonprofit.

      --
      There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
  2. Join MSDN Technet by David+E.+Smith · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nothing beats hands-on experience, so get some on the cheap. Get an MSDN Technet subscription; for $199 a year, you'll get free personal/learning licenses of SQL Server, Exchange, and just about every other big Microsoft program. Play with them. Set them up. Try to break them, then fix them.

    1. Re:Join MSDN Technet by tekiegreg · · Score: 4, Informative

      ^^^ This

      I'd also like to add that if your budget is zero, SQL server express editions exist for free, they have a few restrictions on things such as DB Size, but should suit you well enough.

      --
      ...in bed
    2. Re:Join MSDN Technet by jerpyro · · Score: 1

      I was just about to post this. You can use technet to get educational licenses to all sorts of things. Once you have technet down, walk through a DotNetNuke (http://www.dotnetnuke.com/) installation and figure out how the database works, how the SSMS tool works, and how SQL Tracer works. Those are the basic experiences you'll need to get your foot in the door.

      Set up a few basic email boxes and some SMTP rules on exchange and figure out how to get DNN to sent you emails to that, then you've installed, configured, and implemented both MSSQL and Exchange, not to mention some experience understanding the technologies that sit on top of the stack (which is ALWAYS helpful understanding the developer or software release point of view).

    3. Re:Join MSDN Technet by raydobbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sadly, personal experience != 'experience' in the corporate sense. I've had this fight with IT recruiters and headhunters - they want experience in a corporate setting with corporate problems, not 'I dorked with it at home for x months or years'. Of course, people who actually know what the hell they need value ANY experience, so its not a complete waste - just getting to interview with them versus the HR drone can be the biggest problem.

      Good advice on TechNet though - helps you get a leg up on new OSes and obscure software without having to buy those licenses separately. BIG COST SAVINGS!

    4. Re:Join MSDN Technet by jerpyro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Personal experience can be 'experience' on your resume. What you need to do is to put them as 'personal projects' or 'side projects' instead of listing them as your job functions. Then, they will still trigger the keyword search, and it's enough to justify saying you have 'entry level experience' (which is MUCH better than not listing them at all). Better yet, once you have a little experience with them do a little consulting that makes use of that skill set.

      ALWAYS work on your skill set. Don't wait for a position to come along to allow you to do it.

    5. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on what he wants to learn. If he's just after some T-SQL experience, the free versions will be fine. If he wants to learn the finer points of being a DBA he'll need Standard edition at least (although as your parent poster pointed out, Technet is the way to go for getting hold of these)

    6. Re:Join MSDN Technet by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      Nothing beats hands-on experience, so get some on the cheap. Get an MSDN Technet subscription; for $199 a year, you'll get free personal/learning licenses of SQL Server, Exchange, and just about every other big Microsoft program. Play with them. Set them up. Try to break them, then fix them.

      pfft.
      just register a new company. might be cheaper. then go bizspark. you get a free msdn for two years, everything included.

      or just wing it. everyone has a database of some sort so... so everyone has that requirement.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as you can back up your experience with on the job knowledge you LIE about where you got the experience ... since most corporate HR policies disallow releasing any information other than that you worked for them and when, you're pretty much in the clear saying you got your experience there even if you didn't.

    8. Re:Join MSDN Technet by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Sorry but I totally disagree. Having interviewed many people for tech positions. I was amazed to see how often (i.e. nearly always) people in an interview situation will blatantly lie about their own skills/abilities. Its very easy to weed them out but consequently most hiring managers tend to not to give a crap about what people claim they have learnt on their own.

      Having previous work experience is best, but having a label from some professional body that says you have the skills is the only other thing that most hiring managers will believe, regardless of your actual skills/ability.

      My advice would be to get a certification in the technologies you keep finding you need for other jobs. In most cases, Its the piece of paper that wlll help you the most at least to get to the interview stage, not your actual skills.

    9. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We interviewed a guy two years ago who hadn't worked in IT for 2-3 years. He knew someone at the company who said he was savvy, so we brought him in. When we asked if he had any experience with Exchange, SQL, etc. he went through a list of all the things he had built on his home network. He had multiple servers, a family Exchange server, and loads of other stuff. He landed the job and we didn't regret it. The biggest thing we saw was that he would be self-motivated and capable of learning what he needed to. He hasn't done any work with the things he tinkered with, but they landed him the job.

    10. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Nah, don't even flag it, just be purposefully vague (ASP.NET 5+ years). Need to know more? Ask me during a phone interview.

    11. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The big hurdle I'm coming across that EVERYONE seems to want is experience with SQL databases, and Microsoft Exchange

      Hi! I am a RUTHLESS IT WHORE.

      THis is what I do: just do it.

      You NEED on the job experience so you create it - no matter how small.

      Here's an example: Back in '92, C++ was starting its rise to the top. I knew my C - DOS job was going to be history. So what did I do?

      I wrote utility programs in C++.

      You need to be RUTHLESS. On the job experience matters - classes do NOT matter without experience,

      I _I_ Have BEEN there.

      Contrary to the group think you NEED to know every dip shit fucking "technology" and how to use it to stay relevant.

      I mean really, JavaScript "engineers" getting paid 6 figures? That's retarded but reality. Play reality. If an "ASCII" programmer is were the jobs are at, you are an ASCII programmer.

      Oy Vey!

      Coding social networks?

      And people think hedge fun managers are getting paid too much.

      I'll refrain from my observations of HR and niring managers for fears of un-justified ad hominem attacks.

    12. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      bizspark is a great program, but technet is meant for the scenario, bizspark is meant for you know... businesses.

    13. Re: Join MSDN Technet by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      Why pay yourself when you can make others do it? You just need to convince your boss that the company really really really needs Exchange and SQL Server and whatnot. Don't feel ashamed, how do you think SAP or Oracle get their money and CIOs their curriculum?

    14. Re:Join MSDN Technet by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      Might as well start out with the free edition for now and put off the expense of Standard until he's ready to start learning that much. I administered a SQL Server box at my last job with my only prior database experience being in Access... it's enough for you to learn the very basics of databases.

    15. Re:Join MSDN Technet by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      bizspark is a great program, but technet is meant for the scenario, bizspark is meant for you know... businesses.

      and who is a business? anyone who has registered a new company. they even throw in some azure credits nowadays.
      and free lunches.

      why pay for a subscription when they have a program meant to provide tools for evaluating and using tools for new users? if you need MS tools it's really worth the minor hassle. if you want a coverstory tell them that you're developing a metro app.

      or hell, just ask them for money to develope a new metro app, they have this program going on right now where you can apply for money to do a new app - the only catch is that the app has to be a ms platform exclusive which of course hasn't boded too well for the quality of ideas that program has spawned into apps(apps with genuine market tend to not skip android and ios just for that money). it doesn't really matter that much if the company is just one desk at your home either.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    16. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Volshebnyj+Molotok · · Score: 2

      You can also see if you can get some of this software through Dreamspark for free. They have Windows Server editions, SQL Server Std editions, and other software that is at no cost to you as a student (or former student). You might have to check with your school first to see if they've set this up, but if they have, it's a great resource. You won't be able to get Exchange this way, but full versions of WinServer that you can use to set up a sandbox VM with a full version of MSSQL.

    17. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Volshebnyj+Molotok · · Score: 1

      By the way, the last I checked, the latest OS and SQL versions are 2012 for both, so you can get started with the latest tech on both counts! Also, if you happen to be into programming, or want to learn some, you'll also have access to Visual Studio Pro, Expression Studio and more.

    18. Re:Join MSDN Technet by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      They should of also limited how many databases you can have - if you have an app that will be storing data for multiple users, nothing stops you from creating as many databases as you need, and you can move the tables around to get around the 4 gig limit.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    19. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Someone who is trying to resume build may want to consider charity work. This can be for your local church (if you are religious) or for another charity that you find worthy. You'll have to donate your time, but you can point to real problems solved.

    20. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having interviewed many people for tech positions. I was amazed to see how often (i.e. nearly always) people in an interview situation will blatantly lie about their own skills/abilities.

      This is the employers' fault. They hire liars, which puts me at a disadvantage if I am honest. Like Lance Armstrong, I have to "play ball" and lie to get the job, which is just wrong but what can I do?

      (captcha: aggrieve)

    21. Re:Join MSDN Technet by mlts · · Score: 1

      I would second the certificates. They are the -only- way (other than maybe references or word of mouth between PHBs) that one can stand out from the competition.

      The reason is that cow-orkers notice one's performance, so does one's immediate supervisor... but HR and the top brass? Unless there is a major reprimand, they only see the alphabet soup characters after a candidate's name, perhaps might punch the cert IDs in as validation. The technical guys might at best have a thumbs up or down vote, but it is the HR guys who sign the reqs, and they almost always will go for the person who has never physically seen a switch, but has the Cisco certs over someone who has been in the field, but doesn't have a CCNA/CCIE/whatever.

      There are also times when audits happen. I worked at a place that had an auditor have the IT managers people on the spot under the pretext of "no written authority to operate the equipment" if they didn't have their certs up to date.

      Get the certs... Then comes the hard part. Getting a niche so you are recognized -by name-, and not the pieces of paper attached. That takes some doing, and it takes specialization... of course, specializing in the right thing that isn't a dead end.

    22. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For Exchange specifically, if you can get a public IP and actually flow mail through your own personal Exchange server, that counts as production. And it shows initiative, 'specially if you don't work with it at work.

      That's exactly what I did. Started w/ AD, then went to Exchange, SharePoint, SQL, Lync, and now System Center.

      So now that I think about it, if you get the services reachable from the outside world, it gives a better insight to what you know.

    23. Re:Join MSDN Technet by PNutts · · Score: 1

      Good advice. Also, Microsoft has free fully functional Exchange downloads for evaluation, and IIRC on-line virtual labs for hands-on. Their 70-662 Training Kit (book) includes setting up a virtual environment and guys at work do it on their desktop with VMware Playah.

    24. Re:Join MSDN Technet by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      Just lie on your resume. If you really do know how to use the technology, just say you used it as part of your job. How would HR or the interviewers know you're lying?

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    25. Re:Join MSDN Technet by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is good advice. I got my current position based on experience with open source projects I wrote and was able to demonstrate. Going to the interview with code print-outs in hand really helped.

      Specialist IT recruiters barely know enough to turn their PCs on. All they do is look for keywords, copy/paste requirements from other similar jobs and then try to bullshit both you and their client into getting together. As long as you really do have the skills to do the job don't be afraid of bullshitting them too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had this fight with IT recruiters and headhunters

      This is your problem. Don't talk to the recruiters and headhunters. Talk to the people you'd be working with when you're not actively looking for a job, convince them you're non-suck, and if a job comes up, they'll call you before it's posted, and they'll make the recruiters pass you on to the interview stage.

    27. Re:Join MSDN Technet by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

      Don't forget, you can also by the Developer version of SQL server for peanuts... I think I saw it on Amazon for $50.

    28. Re:Join MSDN Technet by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I've interviewed more than one blatant liar. I had never had the need to lie on my resume, other than minor embellishment of previous jobs. Usually you can tell the lies, and then you just ask about them in the interview. The issue with that is interviews take time and trouble.

    29. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been dealing with this problem as of late myself.
      Our company was purchased about two years back, and ever since we've had to change from "Small home-grown business" into "Corporate mode" - A very painful transition.

      Before, I simply asked my boss (the company founder) if I could hire someone, and it was pretty much up to me. He had final veto power, but never did.

      Now, all requests and approvals must go through HQ. I've been begging for over a year now to hire another full time employee to our very short staffed IT department (There are two of us supporting 150 users over 100 workstations)

      All of 2 resumes have made it to my inbox. Both veto'ed by HQ.

      Personally my primary concern is you know your basics, and can figure out the rest as needed.
      Any experience is useful, and any difficult problems solved and lessons learned, the better.

      Our CTO does not agree. He wants "working experience"
      Open source projects? Naa. Maintained your own fleet of VPS servers? Naa. Work with SQL in your own projects? Pft!

      I've went out and found about 50 qualified candidates and they won't entertain a single one due to built up and bull shit requirements such as this.

      The submitter sounds very qualified for such a job in our department, and if it were still up to me I would hire him on in an instant.
      Sadly, such barriers to entry as you mention can be quite real, and completely out of the hands of the very people who would respect such experience and knowledge.

      Curse you corporate HR - you ruin every last thing you touch or look at!
      Fuck you even harder for making me post this anonymously!

    30. Re:Join MSDN Technet by mjwx · · Score: 2

      Specialist IT recruiters barely know enough to turn their PCs on. All they do is wait for the software to look for keywords, filter out any applicants with names like Gomez or Singh, copy/paste requirements from other similar jobs and then try to bullshit both you and their client into getting together. As long as you really do have the skills to do the job don't be afraid of bullshitting them too.

      Fixed that for you.

      Oh, they'll also reformat your CV into their standard and remove all your personal contact details.

      Interviews with recruiters are 100% personality interviews. They dont give a crap about your professional skills, as we've both said they have no idea what they mean in the real world. The interview with the recruiters is just to size you up personalty wise, figure out if you fibbed (very obviously) on your resume and get permission to contact your references.

      Take samples of your work to the actual interview. There you'll meet the technical interviewer although the non technical interviewers will be more interested in how you do things, not what you know (this is good because as a sysadmin, I cant cart a server farm around).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    31. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Jaruzel · · Score: 1

      That said though, a LOT of large corporates are several versions behind as they support critical systems and can't be upgraded that easily. So it _also_ pays to learn the differences between versions. For SQL this isn't that much of a problem, but there are MASSIVE differences between Exchange versions :(

      -Jar

      --
      Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
    32. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Xest · · Score: 2

      Well said. Don't be afraid to lie to recruiters because they don't know what the hell they're on about, because it's a dirty messed up industry that pursues borderline illegal (and sometimes outright illegal) practices in the UK at least. It's a skill in itself knowing how to play these guys. There are a few good ones, but they're so very few and far between - you'll know them when you find them though, they're the ones that'll be genuinely honest with you, and you can be honest with. When you do find one of the few good ones, build up a rapport with them and stay in touch. They'll be happy to do this because if you're any good they know that one day it may be you paying them to find you some hires and not just them finding roles for you.

      But to highlight AmiMoJo's point, I've had recruiters ask me "Do you know .NET 4?" to which I answer yes, and then they say "What about the .NET framework, do you know that too?" to which you don't even bother wasting your time trying to explain they're the same thing because half of them then think you're trying to blag your way out of not knowing it if you do anything other than say yes/no, so it's easier to actually blag, and just say "Yes". Similarly if they say "Do you know Visual Studio?" or whatever, just say yes, and if they ask what version, just say the highest, because yes, sometimes if you just say "2010 is the highest I've worked with" when 2012 is out then they'll literally filter you out because they don't understand that the difference between versions is so meaningless that it's entirely irrelevant to filtering you in/out for a job. Effectively you just have to tell them what they want to hear, even if that doesn't necessarily make sense or is utterly meaningless in terms of suitability for the job.

      I used to think it was okay to bend the truth a little if you had an interview with someone who wanted you to know something that you didn't know that well but knew you could know inside out before you started if you got the job too. I'm not talking lying about SQL when you don't, but if for example they wanted to know if you had experience with a specific subset of it, like say, triggers, and you knew what they were, knew what they did, but didn't know the keywords and so forth off by heart and didn't have commercial experience with that specific small subset. But you know what? It's not worth it - if they want you to out and out have experience in that technology rather than simply recognise you're more than capable of learning it and being effective as anyone in it in short order then it's not the sort of place you want to work anyway so don't even waste your time - there's no point working somewhere that values rubber stamping of buzzwords over real actual ability to learn and do.

      It's stupid of them to demand that level of knowledge because no one takes a job where they know everything in the job inside out and can do it with their eyes closed, if they did then they would be getting zero career progression from the role and would be bored within a day. Good employers recognise this explicitly and recruit based on you knowing a decent amount of what they need and being capable of learning the rest fairly easily. Bad ones expect you to know the most pointless minute details off by heart such as rarely used function names in the depths of some massive framework and aren't offering you any career progression so don't even waste your time trying to blag yourself a job with them.

      So in summary, don't worry about what you say to recruiters, you'll be less full of shit than they are whatever you say to them, but don't waste time lying to the actual employers, if you feel you have to then you're either going for a job where you'll be genuinely out of your depth (and they'll probably find out shortly after in the interview when they probe you further), or you're going for a job where the employer is shit and has really nothing of value to offer you.

      In all the best jobs I've ever had I've been able to be complet

    33. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      veto'ed

      Which letter has been left out? Or perhaps you're speaking Klingon?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    34. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Sadly, personal experience != 'experience' in the corporate sense.

      It's that way for a reason. "I installed __________ and dorked around with it" is basically useless in the corporate setting. You need to have used ______ on an actual project so you know how to apply it to a real problem, know its strengths, and know its warts. No __________ is perfect, after all.

      I do a lot of interviewing, and if you've used __________ on a real project, even if it's a personal project, that's good enough for me. But I'm going to want a link to your github repository if you are claiming "personal project" so I can see what this "personal project" actually was. If it's legitimate, then great. You pass.

      But you're right, if you just dorked around with ___________, then I'll keep your resume on file and call you if something opens up in the future.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    35. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Nah, don't even flag it, just be purposefully vague (ASP.NET 5+ years). Need to know more? Ask me during a phone interview.

      If I see a required skill that you claim 5+ years of experience, yet none of your projects use that skill, I'll circular-file your resume.

      Just sayin'.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    36. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Just lie on your resume. If you really do know how to use the technology, just say you used it as part of your job. How would HR or the interviewers know you're lying?

      This will not work. You will never pass a technical interview unless your interviewer is utterly incompetent.

      By way of example, let's say I'm interviewing for an open need requiring C++. I see a resume that lists 'C/C++'. The first question out of my mouth after "Hi, How are you?" is going to be, "What are the major differences between C and C++?"

      If you've worked in both, the answer to that question will be trivial (malloc vs. new, classes, STL, templates, stream IO, etc.) If your answer sounds rehearsed, I'll just keep digging: "Show me on the whiteboard how you'd allocate memory in C vs. C++", etc. If I'm still not convinced, "What was in the C++ style guide of your last project?" (most C++ projects have a style guide to keep developers from doing evil). I'll just keep drilling down until I'm satisfied.

      I've had qualified candidates ask me why I was only asking them super-easy questions (I don't ask really esoteric questions--I expect that people know how to work Google), while unqualified candidates must think that I am the biggest asshole ever. Oh well, you can't please everybody.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    37. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      I highly doubt you have a say in the matter, but...

      Considering somebody could've forgotten or ran out of space in their experience section, most people will ask before they discard the resume. My point is you want to be asked to create the repertoire factor and have a chance to show what you're talking about.

    38. Re:Join MSDN Technet by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> I have to "play ball" and lie to get the job

      With that approach you will never get to work anywhere other than hire-and-fire sweatshops.

      Candidates that lie during interviews are very easy to spot. You should see their faces when they suddenly realise that during the interview we are also going test their skills they just claimed they are expert at.

    39. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      I highly doubt you have a say in the matter, but...

      If you're implying that I lack the authority to circular-file a resume, I'll quickly point out that I own the company. If you were making a different point, then I missed it.

      Considering somebody could've forgotten or ran out of space in their experience section

      I get so many resumes that I'm not going to waste time with one where the applicant couldn't be bothered to read what he or she was sending me. If it's an ASP.NET open need, then your resume had better scream ASP.NET so loudly that I'd have to have rocks in my head not to call you.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    40. Re:Join MSDN Technet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I'm going to want a link to your github repository if you are claiming "personal project" so I can see what this "personal project" actually was.

      Why do you assume that every personal project must be released publically on Github?

  3. "Just do it"? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nike would like to have a word with you.

    1. Re:"Just do it"? by TheNinjaroach · · Score: 1

      gewalker's obviously a shoe-selling schill.

      --
      I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
  4. SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you need to know TSQL...and maybe some new stuff like MERGE.
    do you know how to use SQL profiler? are you exposed to custers? Normalization? OLTP?

    1. Re:SQL by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      You bring up a good point. It's good to know the jargon. You don't have to necessarily have direct experience with all of that stuff or even expertise. But it is useful to know what nonsense is being thrown at you.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  5. Work for a local IT company by kullnd · · Score: 2

    Work for a small IT company that provides services to small / medium businesses. Prove yourself there and get involved on as many projects as you can - You will get a ton of experience and learn more than you ever will sitting in corporate IT. It's not easy work if you are doing it right, but if experience is what you want - that is a good place to find it.

    --
    +++ATH0 NO CARRIER
    1. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or a local temp company that will farm you out as if you DO have exp... You will learn soon enough.

    2. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is hands down the best way to get a broad range of experience with all sorts of things. Find yourself a company with a good dozen or more IT people that does break/fix and project support for SMBs. You will learn every way to do something wrong, and how to make those situations right.

    3. Re:Work for a local IT company by intermodal · · Score: 1

      I've worked that gig, and it's great for resume-building, but getting in was mostly about who you know, not what you know.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    4. Re:Work for a local IT company by Synerg1y · · Score: 1, Interesting

      They pay you $20 an hour and charge $160, I have some serious ethical problems with that.

    5. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So go out and get the support contracts on your own. Charge what you feel is acceptable. Let me know how well that goes for you.

    6. Re:Work for a local IT company by kullnd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's a bit extreme of an example - but yes - you are failing to take into account everything that goes into running these types of operations such as Software Licensing (Which is crazy expensive for their ticketing systems and remote management tools), tools, rent, utilities, insurance (General liability and Errors / Omissions, Bonding (really good idea if you have employees in this type of business), your benefits, your payroll taxes, marketing, the cost of doing sales (i.e. not making money to get money) ... the list goes on. If you think it's such a great deal for the owner, why don't you try it yourself - It's a lot harder to get by than you think.

      --
      +++ATH0 NO CARRIER
    7. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the gig I'm currently working. Landed the manager job here a short while back (came 6 years ago with about as much experience as the asker has). I make fair money, and have diversified myself enough that I'm seriously considering a business IT analyst job at a good sized corp. IT recruiters love guys that work for MSPs.

    8. Re:Work for a local IT company by asmkm22 · · Score: 1

      There is a lot of overhead to running a business like that. Stuff like office space, equipment, contracts, and other normal business expenses aren't cheap. Plus, a lot of those places offer financial incentives for furthering your training. like paying for cert tests and stuff. They aren't that great for long-term employment, but they are a great option to pick up 2 or 3 years of experience to pick up experience working with a wide range of setups.

      You'll be knowledgeable in everything from SQL Server and Exchange, to Kerio, Lexis Nexus, Practice Advantage, and hundreds of other unique systems and programs. You'll also gain experience working with a wide variety of people and clients, which hiring managers really love to see (it indirectly shows during the interview).

    9. Re:Work for a local IT company by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      It's hard because its cutt-throat, there's 20 bidders per contract, but people wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable... duh. I'm also talking from the POV of the employee, with which I respond to most of what you just said with: Don't Care.

    10. Re:Work for a local IT company by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Assuming they want to teach you sure, most employers in IT are looking for people to hit the ground running. They might be willing to cross train you, but that's only so they can use you better... actually OP might benefit from that. Hopefully he understands that SQL and Exchange have little to do with each other though.

    11. Re:Work for a local IT company by asmkm22 · · Score: 1

      That's exactly my point. Those companies aren't looking to hire industry vets who demand 70k plus benefits. They want people just starting out who have the basic skills and education, but need experience. $20 to $25 an hour isn't bad for someone just out of college, looking for exposure to the widest range of networks and systems possible. Spend 2 or 3 years at a place like that (you'll probably get regular raises as well), and you'll most likely have everything you need to land interviews at an "enterprise" environment."

    12. Re:Work for a local IT company by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      Considering I was being paid $20 an hour and when the company I was working for charged $95 an hour. I do believe that there is a problem.

    13. Re:Work for a local IT company by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Interesting, because the clients that use these consulting firms expect quality, as in they don't expect problems w the consultant brought in in regards to down time / misconfiguration because it is after commercialized under a contract and with deliverable. I've seen where they have a mix of people, like a senior and jr. admin working together, but sending in somebody new to handle somebody's corporate network is a great way to lose a contract and go out of business.

    14. Re:Work for a local IT company by kullnd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering I was being paid $20 an hour and when the company I was working for charged $95 an hour. I do believe that there is a problem.

      $95/hr is split into:

      Your $20/hr + (Plus any benefits, Federal taxes, blah, blah)
      Plus the time that someone spent getting that client you just did $95 worth of work for
      Plus the money that was spent marketing to get that client you just did $95 worth of work for
      Plus the admin time that will be spent billing that client
      Plus dealing with the clients that don't pay
      Plus office rent, utilities, other office overhead that you probably have no clue about
      Plus tools used to perform the work (ticketing system, remote access tools?) . Again, you probably have no clue how much that actually costs
      Plus you were paid to drive to that client, and if using your own vehicle should have gotten mileage
      In addition to the drive, you are likely not billing 100% of your time anyway - Company still pays you when you are not billable right?

      Believe it or not, the Margin on those accounts is not that much. Does it make money? Well I hope so or your company will no longer exist - Does it make someone filthy rich? Probably not.

      --
      +++ATH0 NO CARRIER
    15. Re:Work for a local IT company by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      The CEO of a company I used to work at gave that kind of rundown during a lunch-n-learn session. His conclusion came down to they needed to bill about three times what staffers were being paid to make a profit. That's fine, I understand that, but they were paying me $15/hour and billing $100/hour. He'd more or less said to my face he was ripping me off. It may vary by industry, but I'd say the $20/$95 difference is well into hefty profits rather than a thin margin.

    16. Re:Work for a local IT company by asmkm22 · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for all of the consulting firms out there, but most don't just send new people in to make major changes. I worked with a few and they all start people out slowly, and with less critical client setups, like small offices and stuff. From speaking with others in the industry, it seems normal for the newer techs to basically do spend the first month updating the documentation, and doing basic server and network maintenance. They don't change anything, or setup new stuff, until the rest of the crew thinks their ready. Often, if they just seem to be catching on too slowly, or lack in people skills, they have to be let go. Basically, if they send in someone new to handle a corporate network, then the consulting firm isn't doing it right. The vetting process for new employees is too important for exactly the reason you mention, which is why they don't just let them loose on day one. Start them slow, get them familiar with the networks first (through updating documentation), and go from there.

      I know it would vary greatly on the actual consulting firm, as well as the clients they specialize in. Some are very much just targeting small and medium sized local businesses that maybe have an SBServer in place with 5 or 6 workstations. Others may be random construction or real estate companies. Certainly, if the consulting firm goes for government contracts or has a lot of high-value clients who, for whatever reason, don't want to pay for in-house IT, then the employees they hire would be better experience (and paid).

    17. Re:Work for a local IT company by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      I was much younger when I was earning $20/hour and $95/hour. Your saying that he should glad with $20/hour while the rate increased to $160/hour.

      I fail to see how business expenses drastically increased in the last 15 years, but not increase the salary of the guy doing the actual work hasn't.

    18. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really isn't a hefty profit and as others have said, if you think it is so awesome go try doing it yourself, it is a damn hard way to make a living. I am billed out at nearly 4 times the rate I receive in hand (receive about $100 an hour, charged out at nearly $400 and I haven't had a day on the bench in 5 years). But as I am also intimately involved in the business I know that they struggle to make any profit out me as the overheads to running our business are so incredibly high in the market we work in. As a business he needs to factor in times when you will be earning him nothing, so while he may make a profit at 3-4 times your rate, he has to factor in times when you are earning him nothing where you are in effect losing him money and add that to the rate, put in all the extra costs and risks and what you have their is actually a thin margin he is working with.

    19. Re:Work for a local IT company by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      The normal range for computer consulting companies is to charge 3 to 5X as much as the consultant is being paid. You might find an extremely lean one that operates at only 2X the consultant rates, especially if they are paying the consultant at 1099 rates (without withholding) rather than W2 ones. But having been on both sides of this for a while it's hard to be that generous to the consultants at most companies.

      If the company is helping find leads and paying you sometimes when you'd otherwise be idle, all of this is quite reasonable. The main time I have found that overhead rate to be unfair to the consultant is when you're being pushed to work for a consulting company by the client, usually to keep their paperwork to a minimum. $BIG_CLIENT often has a contract with $TEMP_FIRM so that they only have one staffing company for consulting work. It's common in that position to discover $BIG_CLIENT advertising for positions, but requiring that you go through $TEMP_FIRM anyway in order to do work for them. And when the job is over, you're out. In that situation, it's reasonable to say $TEMP_FIRM doesn't deserve so much of your rate. Typically you have minimal negotiating power there though, because the only other option is to walk away from the work altogether.

    20. Re:Work for a local IT company by Xest · · Score: 1

      I'm not disagreeing with most of your post, but you've made this point twice now:

      "Plus tools used to perform the work (ticketing system, remote access tools?) . Again, you probably have no clue how much that actually costs"

      You realise that cost can perfectly well be zero (well, beyond staff time for initial setup/customisation)? This is one of those areas where FOSS provides excellent solutions. This is one of those unnecessary expenditures that's trivially eliminated. Sure buy some flashy expensive proprietary ticket management system if you have more money than you know what to do with, but using a FOSS solution isn't going to cause any measurable detriment to your productivity.

    21. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't at least try to negotiate then you can only blame yourself. They have a range they are willing to pay someone and you're probably at the low-end or middle end. If you prove yourself and make them want you, you can be at the higher-end.

      Source: In the last 5 years I have gone from making $15/hr to $40/hr with just self-teaching and moving to a better job when I saw it. I also don't sell myself short anymore and ask for more money.

    22. Re:Work for a local IT company by jittles · · Score: 1

      Considering I was being paid $20 an hour and when the company I was working for charged $95 an hour. I do believe that there is a problem.

      $95/hr is split into: Your $20/hr + (Plus any benefits, Federal taxes, blah, blah) Plus the time that someone spent getting that client you just did $95 worth of work for Plus the money that was spent marketing to get that client you just did $95 worth of work for Plus the admin time that will be spent billing that client Plus dealing with the clients that don't pay Plus office rent, utilities, other office overhead that you probably have no clue about Plus tools used to perform the work (ticketing system, remote access tools?) . Again, you probably have no clue how much that actually costs Plus you were paid to drive to that client, and if using your own vehicle should have gotten mileage In addition to the drive, you are likely not billing 100% of your time anyway - Company still pays you when you are not billable right? Believe it or not, the Margin on those accounts is not that much. Does it make money? Well I hope so or your company will no longer exist - Does it make someone filthy rich? Probably not.

      This is spot on. I used to do estimates and proposals for Government contracts that were required to be billed in a Cost Plus Fixed Fee format. That meant that your costs better line up with what you put on the paperwork or you could lose your contract and get hit with some fines. For the geographical area this company was located in legitimate costs were about 3x what each employee's hourly wage was. And that did NOT include any other employee overhead except for HR. There was time allocated for administration, billing, etc.

    23. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You thing you're being ripped?

      Try working for $35/hr and being billed at $250/hr.

    24. Re:Work for a local IT company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps your rate reflects your knowledge of economics and your writing skill?

  6. SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    > what else do you need to know for database maintenance?

    Learn to create and edit maintenance plans. You can do it using SQL Server Mangler Studio connected to a real SQL Server. I do not believe you can create maintenance plans on SQL Server Express.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    1. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which SQL Server though? MySQL? postgres? MariaDB? There's a whole ecosystem of SQL Servers from a slew of different companies, you know...

    2. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      These people mean Microsoft SQL server, as though that is the only one. They will also be very afraid if they ever have to use the keyboard instead of a mouse.

    3. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and only one of them is named SQL Server.

    4. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (same AC as before)
      Oh, I see. Thanks for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense now.
      Is it only supported under Operating System? Running on the Computer System architecture?
      I wonder who sells it. It's probably made by Software Company, Inc., right?

    5. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Now go back to the children's table. Grownups are talking.

    6. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and only one of them is named SQL Server.

      "Microsoft SQL Server" was originally "Sybase SQL Server". So, yes, after Sybase renamed their "SQL Server" into "Adaptive Server Enterprise", there was indeed only one "SQL Server" left.

    7. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and the original question never mentioned SQL Server in the first place, just SQL.

    8. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by DickBreath · · Score: 1
      Yes, I meant Microsoft SQL Server. Not because I think it is the only one. Not because I think it is best (or even better than the worst). But because the context of the question was about Microsoft's brand of SQL Server. If you want to blame anyone, then blame Microsoft not me. I did not choose to give product names like:
      • Word -- for a word processor
      • Windows -- for a user interface with Windows bolted on top of MS-DOS
      • SQL Server -- for a sql server
      • Office -- for an office software package

      Maybe someone could challenge the SQL Server trademark the way Lindows challenged the Windows trademark when Microsoft started threatening over trademark. Then Microsoft said "nevermind" and paid Lindows $20 Million in order to change its name to Linspire and let's all be friends and not challenge the Windows trademark because it is so strong it would never be rejected upon reexamination.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    9. Re:SQL experience -- create maintenance plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the context of the question was "The big hurdle I'm coming across that EVERYONE seems to want is experience with SQL databases". Nothing in there implies MSSQL specifically.

  7. Google! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything you could need for free, just google.

    Two links below explain how to set up maint. plans, add user/logins, import/export data, etc.

    http://www.mssqltips.com/sqlservertutorial/2210/maintenance-tasks-for-sql-server/

    http://www.databasedesign-resource.com/sql-server-dba.html

  8. knowledge vs experience... again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...
    The big hurdle I'm coming across that EVERYONE seems to want is experience with SQL databases, and Microsoft Exchange. ...
    program here that uses a SQL express backend, but what else do you need to know for database maintenance?" ...

    You're conflating knowledge with experience.
    Having experience with SQL means being responsible if something breaks, and successfully fixing it. Not just knowing how it works.

  9. fresh grad as network admin by beefoot · · Score: 1

    Hire a fresh grad as a network admin ....!? This only happens on MS shop.

    1. Re:fresh grad as network admin by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      What irks me is that they call them network admins. At best they are system operators. When kiddo learns scripting, automation and all that jazz then he can be a sysadmin.

      Network admin should be someone dealing with Networking devices.

    2. Re:fresh grad as network admin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with being a "MS shop." It's much more likely that no one who understands IT/IS is at the helm of handing out titles and the last person who really held the title as network admin was probably 6 positions ago and they just keep the title alive because the owner/HR doesn't know any better.
       
      Stop being such a flaming fanboi. It's embarrassing.

    3. Re:fresh grad as network admin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has nothing to do with being an "MS shop." It's much more likely that no one who understands IT/IS is at the helm of handing out titles and the last person who really held the title as network admin was probably 6 positions ago and they just keep the title alive because the owner/HR doesn't know any better.
       
      Stop being such a flaming fanboi. It's embarrassing.

    4. Re:fresh grad as network admin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What irks me is that they call them network admins. At best they are system operators. When kiddo learns scripting, automation and all that jazz then he can be a sysadmin.

      Network admin should be someone dealing with Networking devices.

      Wait. You mean I'm not a Systems Engineer just because I write Perl all day long?!?!?! Good thing my company doesn't know that and pays like I am ;-)

      * For the sarcasm impaired, I'm fully aware I am no Engineer. I don't care what they call me as long as it comes with the paycheck that the role deserves.

    5. Re:fresh grad as network admin by SecurityTheatre · · Score: 2

      For 30 staff? With a budget of $20k?

      Sure... better than asking the Marketing director or sales admin to do the IT work (which is the other choice, given this budget).

      Or do you expect them to hire an elder neckbeard at that salary?

    6. Re:fresh grad as network admin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When kiddo learns scripting, automation and all that jazz then he can be a sysadmin.

      Wait, there are people who don't know that stuff after graduating? I was messing around with that stuff before vocational school (no high school), by time I graduated from there (18) I was messing with Cisco (Dynamips is awesome), VOIP, Xen etc.

    7. Re:fresh grad as network admin by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Network admin should be someone dealing with Networking devices.

      In a small company, the network devices are often all unmanaged, except for, perhaps firewall (if there is one). The "Windows network" is the network, for all intents and purposes.

      And "network admin" is the generic title for the professional cable monkey who maintains all the network systems and hardware (including the network cabling and devices).

      Because SMBs don't hire separate network teams -- they want an all-in-one guy, because it's cheaper.

      Either that, or they hire consultants who get to report to the all-in-one guy.

  10. [OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Offtopic, but I'd drop the A+ certification from your resume. When we get applicants with A+ listed, then we assume that they don't know enough to know that it means nothing and we bin them.

    1. Re:[OT] A+ = F by alta · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not sure who's rating this down but I agree with it. A+ screams geeksquad. We look at A+ as people who have low expectations in life. It's a pretty poor way to look at it, but that's life.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    2. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the unemployment offices like to set up people with A+ certification as job re-training.

      The cert farms then try to sucker the folks who get A+ into continuing the paid cert cycle.

    3. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, A smart 14 year old could pass the A+

      It is the bargain basement of certs, and a tech with experience doesn't actually need it.

    4. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I would make one caveat to the above. I have run across several jobs where they are looking for A+ certification. In those cases, keep a copy of your resume with the A+ certification on it to submit to just them. I would however mention that you will want to pay close attention during the interview to decide if you really want to work for that company.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    5. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Bugler412 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Having interviewed a bunch of sysadmin candidates in recent history (technical interviews, I'm not an HR or management type) the single most important thing in our interviews is having enough knowledge to work through infrastructure or app scenarios "on the fly" in the course of the interview. We typically whiteboard a common simple app scenario (web front end/app server, sqlserver, storage, authentication source, fat client, and web client mix, firewalls, etc.) and discuss the architecture and securing of each section or connection of the scenario. Sufficient understanding to "think on your feet" is what's most important for us. We are somewhat atypical that way in my experience (I've been through a LOT of different shops in govt, private industry and now education), but thinking on your feet skills will never hurt you!

    6. Re:[OT] A+ = F by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Not yet. He's a kid, hence ignorance of the value of the + certs is acceptable and even expected.

      Once you have anything real on the resume drop the A+ and Net+, they are resume stains for anyone over about 22 years old.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Bramlet+Abercrombie · · Score: 0

      I earned this certification as an attempt to segue my hobby experience into a first IT position so that I could start a career. It didn't work. It's fuckwads like you that have ruined any chance I will ever have of starting a career or a family. Go fuck yourself. So I'm not a fucking engineer, I just wanted a fucking chance. A first job where I could gain experience and further my skills. I guess that was too much to fucking ask.

    8. Re:[OT] A+ = F by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      What does A+ even involve these days? Not like you're setting IRQ and DMA slots to get your sound card to play nice, or optimizing the loadhigh entries in your autoexec.bat file, or getting your mscdex driver to work along side your memory extender.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    9. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Used to use the A+ to screen out jobs.

    10. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're trying to get a geeksquad or helpdesk hell position, well, that's what A+ is for.

      If you're looking for a job that wants SQL, Exchange, or any other enterprise skill, A+ is like putting elementary school on your resume. It's assumed you have that skillset in your repertoire, but in no way should you put that as an achievement.

    11. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it was. (Also, your high user ID will preclude you from any status here.)

    12. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bitter much? Don't be pissed at GP because your cert is viewed as being worthless to those in the industry - let it motivate you to further your skills and pick up other, more valuable certifications (RHCE, CCNA, and MSCE are good ones to go after).

    13. Re:[OT] A+ = F by spudnic · · Score: 1

      Another hint... Even if you don't have a lot of experience, don't pad your resume. Don't say you are proficient in Microsoft Word unless you are applying for some kind of clerical job. And if you put something on your resume you better be able to back it up. It will be easy to tell when the interview happens. Even if you're good in all other aspects if you put down you know something and I find out your only experience is reading an article on it, you're out. I can't trust you.

      --
      load "linux",8,1
    14. Re:[OT] A+ = F by niado · · Score: 1

      A+ still satisfies the DoD 8570 baseline cert requirement for level 1 IA personnel (basically all DOD IT personnel, whether employed by the DOD or a contractor). Other government agencies and large corporations often have minimum certification requirements that include some of the entry-level CompTIA certs.

      Saying "leave it off your resume" is silly. Lots of hiring is still done by non-technical managers who like to see the "letters and stuff" for certifications. Most technical people out there who actually are doing hiring, but (justifiably) don't have as much respect for the entry level certs won't penalize you for having one.

    15. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep.... you just confirmed they were correct to bin your ass.

      Entitlement.

      Maybe it's because you suck that you're having problems finding a career. The biggest hint you'll get is right here..... IT is not the place for Mr. Over-achiever with good grades and a "by-the-book" attitude having all his ducks in a row...

      IT is where the messy haired scatterbrained genius goes to play..... They may leave a half hour early every day or have strange quirks..... BUT they can get into the zone once every few days and churn out some code that a team of 5 could only wish to produce in triple the time.

      I am one of those types. I dropped out of high school, skipped college, and earned $60K/year at 18 without so much as pure experience paving the way.

      Why the bad grades? I ignored the crap school wanted me to do (homework after already wasting 8 hours of my day) and focused on the things *I* wanted to do.... (programming).

      Now I'm happily earning six figures with a dream job I love. I always knew those snobby over-achievers in school were dumb to expend all their effort to get good grades. I coasted and ignored that bullcrap. Then once I turned 17 I flipped it on like a light switch when everyone else was burned out (from school). I was visiting conferences and meeting people while honing my skills. Someone from said-conference then noticed my interest and my skills, then offered me $60K/year on the spot. I took it. That was like 6 or 7 jobs ago. I make double that now.

      That is success man.... Not bitching about some gate-keeper who clearly saw someone they didn't want. You don't take short-cuts. IT needs people who do. Your way is to lay out all the bricks one by one and form a "plan" then tick little checkboxes on your "milestones" and deliver a crap product that takes too long to produce.

      I'd rather have the kid who sees that 5 different MIT/BSD licensed libraries accomplish 90% of what I want... his time alone can build the other 10% and we have a functioning product. IT is about "smarts" over what you college guys call "education". You're lost if you didn't pre-memorize our business problems. Lame.

      Enjoy your hunt though....

    16. Re:[OT] A+ = F by niado · · Score: 1

      I don't have A+ myself, but I taught a course for it recently. Lots of hardware-related stuff on it, mixed bag of useful and non-useful things. Some of it is outdated. Lots of assorted information about the various PC components and how they work together.

      Pretty much just a "do you know how a computer works?" and "can you memorize a bunch of seemingly arbitrary details?" It's not bad for someone just starting out, though it's redundant for someone with more than ~1year experience.

      To get the cert you actually have to take TWO exams now, and in the newest version they added some stuff for mobile devices, though I haven't seen the material for this version yet.

    17. Re:[OT] A+ = F by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I've never run into an issue with it. A+, N+, S+, L+ from CompTia, MCSE from MS, CCNA, CCNP, CCDA, CCDP from Cisco, BCNE from Brocade, Watchguard, Checkpoint, Inflobox, HP/Compaq, and other certs from a variety of places, and no, the A+ doesn't hurt, and likely doesn't help. I worked for a contractor for the State of Alaska. You had to have an A+ to touch a desktop, Network+ to touch a switch, and Server+ to touch a server. Yes, to change tapes on a server, you needed Server+, even if you only touched the external tape drive and didn't log into the server. And one of the switches I touched was set to half-duplex on a fiber connection (full pair). It had been that way for 5+ years, and nobody had ever looked at the duplex. It was "full/100" on one end, and "auto" on the other. Of course "auto" went to 100/half, as it was supposed to do. Instead, they had a 200m copper connection working just fine in its place, auto on both ends, negotiated to 100/full on both ends. 100m is a hard (ish) limit for 100/half, but 100/full can work at longer distances. I shudder to think how many people looked at that link over the years before I figured out the issue. 605 W 4th, Anchorage. Yes, the "federal building" has state offices within it.

    18. Re:[OT] A+ = F by cbhacking · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hell, if at all possible, customize your resume for *every* job. A pure Windows shop is unlikely to care how much Linux knowledge I have, so I remove that and use the space to play up my skills in Win-specific areas and soft skills. A non-developer job (for example, security test) may care that I know how to program, but isn't going to be very interested in my knowledge of software development lifecycles and so forth. A job in a leadership role (even if nobody reports to you) requires different soft skills than one where you're part of a team, which in turn requires different skills from one where you work alone.

      Customize everything. Don't lie, and do have a good, general-purpose resume that you can use for almost any scenario, but if you really want to get hired you should go the extra mile and at least tweak things for each job where you have the opportunity. Additionally, you definitely need to write cover letters wherever possible. Keep them short, professional, and on topic, and ensure they are as well edited as is practically possible - poor grammar can lead to a mark against you just by making you look sloppy or uneducated - but unless your writing is absolutely terrible, they are well worth the time it takes. You want to stand out from the crowd.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
    19. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      Ya good point! When I took my A+ it was a joke, I wrote final test with out ever reviewing the material and got 99.9% on the test. Any medium skilled user could pass it, at least could of a few years ago.

    20. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whether or not you include comptiaa a+ on your resume heavily depends on what position you are applying for and how much experience you have. At the very least the A+ implies (but not proves) that you should be able to diagnose basic hardware and software issues. A+ is an estimate of probably 1-2 years of entry-level help desk and pc support. It is a great way to get your foot in the door when you have NO experience, or informal experience. It is a good addition to an Associate's in the IT world.

      If you are applying for a logical next step job, say Desktop support, the A+ is great to include in your resume. If you are applying for an entry-level network technician, A+ doesn't hurt either.

      We look at A+ as people who have low expectations in life.

      Not everybody magically popped out of college with 4-6 years experience managing Exchange/SQL servers. And not everybody is applying for a senior-level sysadmin or developer job.

    21. Re:[OT] A+ = F by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      Don't say you are proficient in Microsoft Word unless you are applying for some kind of clerical job.

      Indeed. IMO Word & Excel skills on a resume for an IT position is more a liability than an asset.

    22. Re:[OT] A+ = F by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Offtopic, but I'd drop the A+ certification from your resume.

      Yeah.... OP should work on going to get a cert that matters, such as CCNP or MCITP Enterprise messaging administrator :)

    23. Re:[OT] A+ = F by DaFallus · · Score: 1

      Not sure who's rating this down but I agree with it. A+ screams geeksquad. We look at A+ as people who have low expectations in life. It's a pretty poor way to look at it, but that's life.

      That is a pretty short sighted practice. Just because someone earned an A+ certification at some point in their career doesn't mean they don't know anything. When I was working at my first job, I was doing anything and everything possible to find a way out. One thing on that list was obtaining an A+ certification. Sure, it didn't really help me as I went the development route, but I think it is pretty stupid to write someone off simply because they achieved something that you feel is worthless. Sure, if the only thing on someone's resume is the A+ cert, that is probably not a good sign. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

      --
      No one cares what your captcha was

      Houston TX, USA
    24. Re:[OT] A+ = F by mysidia · · Score: 1

      To get the cert you actually have to take TWO exams now, and in the newest version they added some stuff for mobile devices, though I haven't seen the material for this version yet.

      See... I don't know who they're trying to appeal to by requiring two exams, and adding a few mobile things.

      It doesn't make me more likely to hire someone who holds the certificate.

      And as an IT pro if I were looking for a certification to add... two exams seems like an inconvenience, they limited the duration the cert is good for before requiring renewal, and the whole A+ thing just appears totally unappealling; I can't fathom why anyone would still be going for it.

    25. Re:[OT] A+ = F by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Other government agencies and large corporations often have minimum certification requirements that include some of the entry-level CompTIA certs.

      See.... i'd just leave the A+ off my resume, and put the CISSP, or other non-puny certification that I would have obtained on there. :)

    26. Re:[OT] A+ = F by DaFallus · · Score: 1

      Offtopic, but I'd drop the A+ certification from your resume. When we get applicants with A+ listed, then we assume that they don't know enough to know that it means nothing and we bin them.

      Personally, I'd use your comment as a reason to keep the A+ on my resume. I'd never want to work with people who jump to such conclusions and discriminate over something so trivial.

      --
      No one cares what your captcha was

      Houston TX, USA
    27. Re:[OT] A+ = F by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Once you have anything real on the resume drop the A+ and Net+, they are resume stains for anyone over about 22 years old.

      Unless they started late in life in the industry... perhaps after moving in from an unrelated field with no prior experience in IT? :)

    28. Re:[OT] A+ = F by greg1104 · · Score: 2

      I can usefully interview for sysadmins with a single question: "if you were paged that a [type of server used at the company] system is out of disk space, what would you do?" There's no right or wrong answer, but more experienced people will normally include a long list of things they've run into when that exact situation hit in previous work. Great answers include details on how to write a shell/Perl/Python program looking for common disk hogs. Bad ones discuss how to click on icons to check disk space.

      In theory I can be fooled here by someone who just studied the topic deeply enough. But anyone who's done enough of that to rattle off a good sized list is someone likely to pick things up on the job too. And that's the most valuable skill of all.

    29. Re:[OT] A+ = F by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I work for a MSP. My job these days has been tier 3 support, system administration, and deployment of desktops/servers/firewalls. You must be able to fly by the seat of your pants in the MSP industry. It's doable but stressful cramming 30+ corporate networks in your head (most of you fuckers on /. only have to learn 1 or 2 at most for your single job). The burn-out is high too. What makes it all palatable however is one thing; Asking the right questions to your clients. Everything else falls into place from there on out. Usually at any rate.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    30. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the A+ used to have a very big section on the inner workings of a CD-Rom drive as if anyone in their right mind ever repaired one rather than replacing it, I have always written it off as useless garbage. Sadly many companies are using it as a hiring criteria these days so they don't have to actually screen candidates through someone with actual IT knowledge.

      Seeing as how the original poster is CCNA certified as well and is having issues finding a company that isn't screwing him with lowball pay Im wondering what the relevance of that cert is nowdays as well.

    31. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How's simply checking for disk usage a bad answer? If that's ALL they've got, sure. But if your server just shat itself due to lack of free space, the priority is to get it operational again, which entails finding out fast where the disk space went, freeing up whatever temp files are chewing it up, and then looking for more of a long term fix, like programming some sort of watchdog script.

      I'd be pretty pissed if a sysadmin I hired twaddled around programming something while leaving an important server down.

    32. Re:[OT] A+ = F by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      Finding out fast where the disk space went is exactly the problem that's best solved with scripting. An admin who goes poking around the disk tree manually instead of launching a tool to help figure out what's wrong is a pretty poor one. Saying that path "twaddled around programming" tells me you've failed my interview. If you can't throw together a quick script to look for disk hogs in seconds using a UNIX tools pipeline, faster than you can click through even a few levels of directories with a standard UI, you have no place as an administrator in my world. Administrators who don't approach their work like a software developer, constantly building tools to improve their efficiency, they don't scale well enough to handle important servers.

    33. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you have to sift through a few hundred resumes for *each* opening, you need to have some tools to quickly filter out candidates. Applying for a sysadmin job with a certification which shows that you know how to use a keyboard mouse let's us know that you *may* not have the critical thinking skills necessary to do the job without hand-holding. It may not be true, but it's a way to cleave away the chaff.

    34. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was proud of myself when I got my A+ at 12 years old back in 1997. Now I'd be shunned for mentioning it.

    35. Re:[OT] A+ = F by alta · · Score: 1

      I've hired plenty of people who HAVE or HAD an A+ but the point is, once you get past that applying for level 1 service desk, drop A+. That's I'm at Director level in my career now, there are tons of skills I used to list on my resume but don't any longer. I also don't list my high school info either.

      --
      Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    36. Re:[OT] A+ = F by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, know if you cert is valid or expired...and don't claim to be certified if it is expired. A recent cadidate I interviewed listed his CCNA, and then later menitoned he did a bunch of bootcamps several years ago. When I asked if his CCNA was valid, he said yeah, but he thought it expired in a few months. When I mentioned the three years, he realized it was expired. (He couldn't tell me the difference between mesh and hub-and-spoke configurations, the difference in standard vs jumbo packet, so the cert meant nothing in my eyes regardless.)

    37. Re:[OT] A+ = F by niado · · Score: 1

      Well, CISSP is a little heavy for someone applying for a Level 1 IA personnel (PC technician or whatever).

      CISSP requires 5 years of experience before you sit the exam, and a reference from an isc2 member.

      Security+ is probably more of an option for low-level personnel, though it's more advanced material than the A+.

    38. Re:[OT] A+ = F by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I expect healthy cynicism from older industry switchers. They don't have the kids energy, they ought to have better bullshit detectors then the kids.

      From a kid (at least the kid I want to hire) it's 'irrational exuberance', for an old guy it's 'working the system'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  11. Learning SQL and Exchange by jmaros · · Score: 1

    Honestly, if you're looking to learn them, there are plenty of resources out there. If you want the cert, I would suggest a certification specific class, as the cert tests contain many, many things you will never ever do in real life.

    You could get info here http://www.microsoft.com/exchange/en-us/learning-resources.aspx

    or there are a few books.

      If you just want working knowledge, The issue is that its fairly common knowledge, at this point. You may want to look into a specialization around one of those programs? Maybe DR, cloud infrastructure? Administration is too commonplace to make a dent in your future, IMHO.

    1. Re:Learning SQL and Exchange by DiamondGeezer · · Score: 1

      I would definitely agree that certifications + some dicking around with SQL and exchange would definitely help. Go for the latest versions because MS is going Cloud-everything and you will need to know cloud, whatever your future career in IT may be.

      --
      Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
    2. Re:Learning SQL and Exchange by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      I used to think certs were dumb (and I guess I still do), but I think my friend used one successfully in this type of situation to get a job at my company.

      Basically, he taught himself something but had never done it in an academic/corporate environment. He got the impression after several interviews that people didn't see it as much different than when recent grads list the 7 programming languages they have ever touched (oh yeah, I used R in that one statistics class, econometrics had Stata, and the intro comp-sci class used Scheme) plus the foreign language they took in 10th grade. Without any experience to back it up (the job he had done for the 3 years since college was entirely unrelated), it just looked like he was listing a buzz word.

      He decided to get the certification. I asked why? I program in it every day, as do most of my coworkers and not a single one has a certification or has ever considered it. But, he studied up a bit (gotta review all of the irrelevant stuff that the cert needs that would never get used at a job like this), went to the testing center, and got the cert. I think the cert really helped show that he was actually proficient in the language and wasn't just listing a something where he had copied a few lines of code from a textbook for a semester in college.

      --
      Bottles.
    3. Re:Learning SQL and Exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if you don't get the vert there are common situations in running SQL Server and Exchange that you probably aren't going to encounter if you just set it up for yourself. Following the certification roadmap will get you into using and understanding the tools in a more well rounded way.

    4. Re:Learning SQL and Exchange by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      He decided to get the certification. I asked why? I program in it every day, as do most of my coworkers and not a single one has a certification or has ever considered it. But, he studied up a bit (gotta review all of the irrelevant stuff that the cert needs that would never get used at a job like this), went to the testing center, and got the cert. I think the cert really helped show that he was actually proficient in the language and wasn't just listing a something where he had copied a few lines of code from a textbook for a semester in college.

      Very few certs show me that someone is actually proficient, since the majority of them are cram-and-barf and overly-concerned with features so obscure that even after decades of work, I'll go back and RTFM before using them, if for no other reason that if I bothered to learn them at all, what I learned is probably obsolete. I've met too many people who had certs, but had promptly forgotten whatever practical knowledge they'd picked up while cramming as soon as the exam was done.

      If you have 1 or 2 certs, I'll give you credit for initiative, although that doesn't pass the interview. If you have 10 or 20, I'll suspect you're a professional test-taker, and unless the position actually benefits from test-taking skills, I'll discount the them.

  12. Or install Postgres, Mysql , and.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn other, better, software completely free, hack them yourself, play with them. set them up. try to break them, then fix them.

    Or give Microsoft more $$$, your choice..

    1. Re:Or install Postgres, Mysql , and.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the easiest path. Get a couple books on SQL, install MySQL and/or PostgreSQL, and start learning. Then do freelance work helping small shops with their databases.

      If you want SQL Server and/or Oracle on your resume, don't go the DIY route. Get training and get certified, there isn't any alternative if you want to be taken seriously.

    2. Re:Or install Postgres, Mysql , and.. by HornWumpus · · Score: 0

      MySQL is a resume stain. You will only be hired by other MySQL shops. If you want to work with people who know their head from their ass avoid it.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:Or install Postgres, Mysql , and.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Submit code to the project and tell them "Do I know SQL? heck I help write it?"

    4. Re:Or install Postgres, Mysql , and.. by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      Of course if you follow this advice to avoid MySQL you will never work for a start up or a growing medium sized enterprise, particularly if it does high tech engineering. Why pay for corporate software if you are smart and can cope with open source alternatives? For craps sake whats the difference between SQL syntax? A different A4 printout? Who just does just admin these days anyway, low paid drones running a banks server farm? Almost all real jobs end up needing other skills anyway. Business process experience and analysis skills are worth more than any syntax skills. Even if you are completely clunky with the syntax there are hordes of businesses looking for people with the skills to turn their wishy/washy aspirations into business processes, even if you have to spend a couple of evenings reading the manuals on the blasted tool before you can do anything.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    5. Re:Or install Postgres, Mysql , and.. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The question isn't between open and closed source. It's between competent implementations of ANSI SQL plus extensions (postgres, SQLserver, Oracle, DB2 etc) and an incompetent implantation of 'making it up as we go along SQL' (MySQL).

      To use a car analogy: Working extensively with MySQL is like being a car painter and having Earl Schaub on your resume. Sure it's possible you can do a good job, but if that's true WTF were you doing then?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  13. Mod parent up! by BigDaveyL · · Score: 1

    Sadly, getting in the door is the hard part as HR and recruiters don't give a shit about any experience you may have outside of a corporate environment.

    1. Re:Mod parent up! by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      I've worked both in corporate and outside of it, nobody's ever asked me how many years of corporate IT experience do you have?... hasn't even headed in that direction. Could HR / recruiter's problems w you have something to do with your overly optimistic attitude (satire) ?

    2. Re:Mod parent up! by BigDaveyL · · Score: 1

      I list personal projects, things I've learned, etc. outside of my current role to keep up to date. The run of the mill recruiter/HR person (and even hiring managers) pass me over because they claim I don't have relevant full time paid professional experience.

      Kinda hard to keep a good attitude when that happens.

    3. Re:Mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly you don't want to be working for them anyway.

      But it sucks even more to not have a job.

    4. Re:Mod parent up! by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Alright, I'll put it in layman's for you:

      List the things you've learned, skills involved in the project AS SKILLS, don't say they're personal or professional it can't possibly help you. If they need to know they can ask and often will, but at that point you can justify yourself by getting granular and providing technical examples of what you know.

      Guy who built his own framework = dreamer
      Guy who built his own framework and explained how he improved the coding world with it = new hire

      They're the same guy btw.

    5. Re:Mod parent up! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I have had it explicitly asked for in a phone interview. Often it's not asked, but inferred from your resume. Doesn't list it in a clear manner they can calculate that number from? Then it's discarded. There are more applicants than space, they will throw away qualified applicants without consideration based on style and appearance.

      The only plus is that most of those places are ones you wouldn't want to work anyway. But it happens. Frequently.

    6. Re:Mod parent up! by drolli · · Score: 1

      Ok. He my advice: Milk and water. You are right. You will never be hired for something which you just have personal experience in. But if you play it right, it may give you the edge over the person who didnt learn them. So, never try to sell youself for a job fro which you have no qualification. Try to apply for a Job which has some of your skills as the main demand and a setting in which you can just imporve and show your skills. Thats what i am doing (Physicist without much formal IT education). People wan me for solving differential equations and use simulink (which i never used before): No problem. They trust that i learn.

      Trying to oversell some of you peronal projects just indicated you lack of judgement on that, so skip these as selling point.

      In my CV i categorize my skills from "one time/personal use" to "expert>5y experience" . In my experience you will be hired if you they need one of you expert skills+condifer.think it would be helpful if you could apply some of the "one time use" skills.

    7. Re:Mod parent up! by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Now, I want to make it real clear that I've been asked for years of experience dozens of times, but... never for years of corporate experience, my point is experience is experience to a recruiter, corporate, dev shop, or even work study. I'm not doubting the existence of such a practice either, HR has been known to ask some stupid shit, but just like I don't buy volcano insurance, it's not worth factoring only your corporate experience, always give the full number of years of any experience in IT.

    8. Re:Mod parent up! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I've had it phrased "work experience" where "consulting" isn't counted if it sounds like "unemployed time I spend playing around in my momma's basement" which it often is. Not "experience" but "work experience" where you must document working for a reputable company (corporate) for it to be counted. Though the only two times that counted were for immigration when I moved out of the US and got permanent residency elsewhere (one year left 'till citizenship), and for a job I turned down an interview for because the definition of everything was so stupid I didn't want to work in a place so idiotic.

      My resume has "work experience" that's all with corporates, and "skills" that's unrelated to jobs, they can infer from the two where I used which skills, and with me able to document school or work for the last 30 years with no gaps, I'm never in the "what did he do in that gap" question area, though that also means I leave on some irrelevant jobs at the beginning of my career and a number of shorter jobs, but that hasn't seem to hurt me. 100% coverage for 30 years seems to say more than cherry picking the "top jobs" and leaving gaps. All experience is assumed to be from a job, even if not necessarily so.

  14. Look at the Job Descriptions by nman64 · · Score: 1

    First, you need to look at what skills the jobs will really require. If they are looking for an experienced DBA, you're a long way from qualified. If the postings you're looking at are with SMBs looking for some general IT staff, then you can probably already handle most of their needs.

    Database administration is a discipline all its own. It takes a long time to learn databases at that level, and that's probably not what you want to do. Most of the shops looking for someone experienced with Exchange and SQL Server are looking for someone who can handle basic installation, configuration and, most importantly, troubleshooting. You can learn those skills pretty easily by just playing around with the software and using Google and maybe a few books. As others have already recommended, a TechNet subscription will be helpful here. SQL Express will get you started nicely. Don't consider yourself ready until you've managed to break things a few times and figure out the fixes on your own. I strongly encourage you to get familiar with Exchange 2012 and PowerShell, even if the job descriptions don't mention them - they're the way things in the MSFT world are going, and you'd need to deal with them sooner or later.

    1. Re:Look at the Job Descriptions by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Agreed with PowerShell. In fact, the GUI of Exchange 2007, 2010, 2012, and Server 2012 are just wrappers for creating and executing PS scripts under the hood. That said however, I'm a little pissed how my Exchange commandlets get changed after a new service pack. I haven't written a single PS script from scratch yet, but I understand how to read them. And honestly, it's a lot easier to just GoogleFu them online. I'm willing to bet 99% of the sysadmins out there do the same.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  15. FAIL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like you have been watching too much gay porn. Wrong hole.

  16. The Software is Free by paysonwelch · · Score: 2

    I have been developing .NET apps for a long time and prior to that I was using LAMP. If you want to learn SQL you can get a free copy of Microsoft's development tools, specifically Sql Server Express 2012, and Visual Studio Express 2012. If you have zero sql experience I recommend picking up a book and learning that way to get started. As far as Exchange you should get some computers / servers to practice on, or a really good one and use Hyper-V for lab setups. Spin up several of their eval licenses and configure the eval version of Exchange on Active Directory. I also recommend going through the features / roles of Windows server. Basically jump in, get books where you need the deep knowledge, but nothing beats hands on experience. Learn to talk the talk and walk the walk. If you want a good practice server I recommend getting a Dell XS23-SB on eBay, I paid about $300 for mine, it has four "blades" that you can use. Or like I said get a kick-butt system and use Hyper-V.

  17. Self teaching, followed by volunteer work by they_call_me_quag · · Score: 5, Informative

    I see this as a three step process:

    (1) Use the other resources mentioned above to teach yourself SQL server and Exchange.

    (2) Find a nonprofit agency in your area who needs help with their computing environment. Offer to help them on a volunteer (ie, unpaid) basis. Be sure this help includes working with SQL Server and Exchange. Be picky about this. Do not get involved with an agency where the work will not help you build your practical skill set. Also be sure that there is someone at the nonprofit agency who is willing to act as a reference for you at some point in the future. You don't have to explicitly ask this upfront, just be sure that the senior most person you can find knows enough about who you are to say nice things about you.

    (3) Use this real life experience to help you land the next job on your way up the ladder.

    (4) Optional: Continue working with the nonprofit agency if it makes you happy.

    BTW... you can do steps 1 & 2 in parallel, ie start looking for a nonprofit while you are learning SQL Server and Exchange. Both steps might take a little time.

    1. Re:Self teaching, followed by volunteer work by Giskard+Reventlov · · Score: 2

      #2 can be substituted with "help solve other people's problems on online forums". There's a lot of homework BS on MSDN Forums, Stack Overflow, etc - but there are quite a few great, diverse, relevant questions as well. When I was learning SQL Server in an environment where it wasn't a large part of my job, I combined extensive reading (books & blogs) with solving other people's problems on online forums. I went from zero to intermediate/advanced in a couple of years, using this method.

    2. Re:Self teaching, followed by volunteer work by D1G1T · · Score: 1

      No mod points today, so, THIS. Working for a non-profit/charity will give you real world experience, and give the prospective employer a warm fuzzy feeling. Make sure you go through a backup/crash/restore disaster recovery exercise so you can discuss that as well.

    3. Re:Self teaching, followed by volunteer work by they_call_me_quag · · Score: 2

      Helping on forums is not a bad thing, but I don't think it's an equal substitute for getting out of the house and doing real work for a nonprofit. Getting knee deep in the weeds at a real organization gives you a different level of experience than helping out on forums. Besides, there's nobody on the forums you can call on as a reference. Imagine how great it would be to have some senior person from the local food bank / animal shelter / literacy program / homeless shelter give a glowing reference to a potential employer.

      Again... helping out on forums is not a bad thing, but I don't think it's a substitute for step #2.

  18. Apply anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Employers want a "jack of all trades / swiss army knife" IT guy.

    Rarely do you actually get that. apply anyway, you might have enough experience to get the job.

    Don't try and "fake" SQL experience. Especially do not try to "fake" Exchange experience. Exchange = Outlook = Users. Any half decent exchange admin will trash you in an interview and you'll leave with a prayer of getting the job.

  19. Step 1: Lie by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Do what everybody else does: get a buddy to lie, saying you have experience. I'm not condoning it, only reporting what I've seen others do that "works". Conscience optional.

  20. How to Expand Horizons by Kagato · · Score: 1

    You may be out of luck with Exchange if your employer isn't using it, but you certainly have the leverage for SQL server. First off, what are you doing to be a good sys admin? Basics would be to set up monitoring for drive space, CPU and running services. You really only need to know cursory SQL and the rest is account security.

    Then you would be able to truthfully say "I have experience installing and maintaining SQL Server. This includes initial setup, configuring users, databases, running vendor installation procedures and applying monitoring. I have automation checking my servers to make sure they are running, not out of space and have enough CPU to get get the job done."

    If someone pushes you on knowing SQL the bottom line is a SQL developer position is going to make substantially more than the system administrator.

  21. Start with SQL proper. by Let's+All+Be+Chinese · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Start at the beginning. Too many SQL users (including developers!) haven't a clue how to properly use it. As a DBA, you'll be called upon to provide that, among other things. So start with the theory and practice of SQL. Especially since it actually is founded upon fairly solid theory, meaning that if you know the theory the practice suddenly becomes a lot smoother. The rest will follow from that.

    See db-class.org for a MOOC intro. If you've worked your way through that you'll know where to start looking for learning about the DBA-type things you'll need to do: Schemata, indices, query tuning, and then the subtler tuning like moving tables and indices around on disk or solid state or in-memory or what-have-you. And the basic knowledge will be useful any time a user asks for your DBA-hatted help.

    As to exchange, it's crap, and you'll be better off knowing less about its internals. It's hairy and quirky and apt to eat your mail. In fact, it's not even a proper mail server: It's a suitable server for outlook, just as outlook is not a proper email client, but a suitable client to exchange. The combination means a lot of interop trouble that could've easily been avoided.

    Since you'll be called upon to make it play ("nicely" is not in the books) with the rest of the world, again, start from principles. Learn how to set up an MTA, know how SMTP and IMAP work. Send yourself an email by telnet. Know what the various headers do. That MTA set up with matching IMAP server, don't have to be exchange at first, in fact it's better not to. Once you know how the rest of the world does it, you can learn how exchange fscks it all up, and how to keep the thing on a leash.

    For bonus points, learn how to provide everything that exchange purports to provide ("collaboration" and calendaring and "syncing" and so on, as well as half-assed not-entirely-unlike-email type "messaging") using open-source software. Get that down smoothly (there are several ways and alternatives available these days) and you have another selling point: Providing a better experience with less cost.

    That was what you're looking for, right? Points to sell yourself with?

    1. Re:Start with SQL proper. by asmkm22 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't matter if Exchange is crap or not. Your personal opinion is pointless if the companies he's applying for use it. Having said that, I personally don't see many issues with the Exchange servers I've maintained over the years, if they're setup properly.

      Anyway, back on topic. Going into an interview for a position that requires experience with certain software, only to tell them that not only do you not have that experience, but that they shouldn't even be using the software in the first place, isn't likely to make for a good first impression.

    2. Re:Start with SQL proper. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Since you'll be called upon to make it play ("nicely" is not in the books) with the rest of the world, again, start from principles. Learn how to set up an MTA, know how SMTP and IMAP work. Send yourself an email by telnet. Know what the various headers do.

      Those are things to learn, but not essential. If you learn how SMTP and IMAP works, and how to send an e-mail over telnet; you will have abilities that 90% of the enterprise Exchange admins don't have. :)

    3. Re:Start with SQL proper. by Let's+All+Be+Chinese · · Score: 2

      It doesn't matter if Exchange is crap or not. Your personal opinion is pointless if the companies he's applying for use it.

      It does, and the reason why is already in my previous post: It's a bad start to learn running email with. The question wasn't about running the software, it was about getting started, about learning to run it.

      So learn this email thing properly first, then learn to tame exchange. It's not even much work, and certainly less than having to find out down the road, the hard way, your learned habits are bad ones, unlearning them, and re-learning better habits. It's about getting in the right frame of mind before filling it in with brand-specific experience. Might as well do it properly right away.

      Beyond that, experienced admins (ie. a bit more capable than "operator" aka tape monkey) should be able not only to run multiple types and brands of systems, but also advise companies as to what are proper choices, in terms of both functionality to the user ("use") and administration ("maintenance").

      Exchange is notorious for offering functionality that doesn't translate to the rest of the world (eg. "un-send"), among other tricks, while being high on maintenance and resource requirements. That is, there are opportunities for better service delivery and lower costs. But you won't be able to offer them if that one program is all you know.

      That is another reason not to get hung up on one vendor's offerings, and for that you need interop. So start with software that does interop well, not with software whose vendor has a long, long track record of sabotaging interop in myriads of ways. Once you know how to do it properly, taming the improper stuff also becomes a lot easier.

      Nowhere did I say to tell potential employers at the interview that they ought to be doing things differently. That doesn't work, of course. But if the employer is any good as an employer, you'll stick around for a while.

      And then you can prove time and again that their decision to hire you was the right one (and get raises, if played right) if you can offer more than "exchange monkey"-type skills; if you can tell them how to get the same or more functionality out of less cost and resources. But to do that you need to do better than stick at "this one application"-level. It's a poor comfort zone to be in.

      Might as well lay the groundwork now, even if the payoff is way in the future. We're talking building careers here. That's a multi-decade view.

    4. Re:Start with SQL proper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree 100%. Also, knowing the "hairy" and "quirky" details is what can make the difference between someone that just "knows" a product when it's working fine, and someone that knows how to troubleshoot and fix a product when it breaks down. Believe me, everyone is a good sysadmin when things are doing fine, its when all hell breaks loose than the "real" men (persons?) surface :) Also, anyone can do a "next, next, next, finish" install, but its the following up configuration and details that will get you. For that, you need to at least be aware of the inner "quirkyness" of the product. And all products are like that.

      Probably almost no one will notice that you have 99,99% of uptime in your email system, but people *will* notice if your email system breaks down and all you do is complain about Microsoft and Bill Gates and "hairy and quirky" products.

    5. Re:Start with SQL proper. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Knowing the quirks comes with experience. But the question here is where to get started.

      And for that baseline knowledge, "how to do it properly", is pretty useful. Say, for contrasting with what actually happens, for fault-finding, that sort of thing. Even if the proper thing only ever happens in theory. So start there; don't start with something that's quirkier and hairier than most. Start with something suitable to learning the ropes. Learn how it should be done, then learn how it's actually being done by different products. Compare, contrast, conquer all.

      For in the end, being an admin is more than having memorised umpteen sequences of buttonclicks, each for a different product, perhaps different versions of the same product. Altough apparently this is what "admins" of the products by that vendor are made of, qv three different followups to ggp.

  22. Microsoft Virtual Labs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best experience is hands on, but in place of that Microsoft has virtual labs that allow you to setup and build whatever you want. It's been awhile since I've done any but I believe you get an hour to play around with whatever you want. They also have some guided labs.

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/virtuallabs

  23. talk to an M$ sales agent by ArcadeX · · Score: 1

    Get permission from your company if you want, but call M$ and say you are thinking about switching to exchange and want to know if they can help with a trail run. MSDN is great, but not free, and this way you have access to M$ support during your inital setup. Run it a few months, play with it, break it (on purpose if you have to), have M$ help you fix it again, then make sure you thank the sales agent profusely as you uninstall and decide not to buy...

    --
    An I.T. motto in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing...
    1. Re:talk to an M$ sales agent by asmkm22 · · Score: 1

      He's better off just getting a Technet subscription, which is exactly what it's for. They are great values anyway, if you work with Microsoft products at all.

  24. Build Something by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    Go learn a programming language and build something. Grab some decent books on the subjects necessary (PHP, MySQL, RDBMS architecture in general, CSS, HTML, Javascript, design); online tutorials are great but personally I find books to pack more valuable data in one place. I suggest (and I'm going to get attacked for this, but oh well) PHP and MySQL, and that you go build a forum (with user registration, threads, posts, profiles, etc.). I think that's about the right scope to be able to put on your resume while still being possible to do in your spare time. I should know, I built one about a decade ago, and I'm now a professional web developer with a great startup, about to release a mobile app for several clients nationwide.

    If you want to stay with Microsoft, you could do the same thing in ASP.NET and SQL Server in place of PHP and MySQL (though I find that using Microsoft technology stacks tends to silo you from the rest of the development world). Or you could go all new-age and use Rails or other frameworks.

    Even if you don't want to be a developer, this will give you a thing to point to on your resume / cover letter to say "see, I have experience with these methodologies" even if you've never worked with them professionally.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
  25. A LOT MORE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > what else do you need to know for database maintenance?

    A Lot more! I've been a DBA / SQL Engineer for 11 years. I learn new things about SQL Server and its tools all the time. The problem for you is that it is easy to cause problems or performance issues with a SQL instance and companies don't want you to break their websites and applications. If you really want to go in the direction of being a SQL Server DBA here are some things you should learn or complete:

    1) Learn to program. T-SQL is a programming language just like any other (and while the GUI for Management Studio is nice you won't use it for everything.)
    2) Programming will also help you when performance tuning queries and jobs. (Honestly, the best DBAs come from development backgrounds not Admin ones)
    3) Get the MS certification exam study guides and go through the examples (It comes with a CD with SQL Enterprise 180 Day license to play with)
    4) Work with the DBA developers at your current job on any SQL projects even if it is shadowing them just to see what is involved (You will learn something even if you don't get to practice it yourself).
    5) Consider taking a Junior DBA position making less money where they will mentor you and get you the real world experience you need (Even if it means making less money to start off with)
    5) Pickup the basic MCTS: SQL 2008 Database Administration Certification (Or 2012 if you want to start out ahead of the curve)
            - You will want to continue this as you get experience till you have your MCITP or one of the new 2012 certs.

    Honestly with your resume (network+, CCNA) you may want to consider becoming a network administrator instead since you have all the certifications you need already. Good Luck either way!

  26. Exchange Administrator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Run.

    Ask any seasoned exchange admin.... your life will become hell for not filtering the spam, or, because you filtered not-spam.

  27. Installing isn't maintaining... by evilviper · · Score: 1

    I have some SQL experience, I deployed a source control program here that uses a SQL express backend, but what else do you need to know for database maintenance

    It's vastly easier to just install something that minimally works, than it is to maintain said system when you run into mysterious problems.

    If you don't know all about the dark corners of SQL backups and imports, manually doing SQL queries, navigating around schema, looking for inconsistencies, manually truncating log files, the implications of all of the above actions, and more, you don't actually have any SQL experience. That's not DBA stuff, that's just basic admin stuff.

    IMHO, there's no better experience than breaking shit. When some major service, with crazy service interdependencies just won't damn well start up, you'll quickly learn everything there is to know about that system, as you're tracking down the problem, step by step. Of course for some people in IT, sacrificing a goat, and just clicking random buttons, and doing a google search for the error messages they're getting is the only thing they can think to do, and they don't really get much benefit out of it. But for me, hammering on a system until it breaks in weird ways (even just filling-up a file system) and then figuring out how to systematically track down the problem, and going through the fixes, really is by far the most valuable IT knowledge.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    1. Re:Installing isn't maintaining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      helps if you know the language as well. You can know alot about french history, but you won't be able to get a job as a curator in a french museum if you don't know french.

    2. Re:Installing isn't maintaining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (even just filling-up a file system)

      I can't say how many times I've seen someone install SQL with the logs on the OS drive when there was a raid array setup specifically for it. What's wrong? No drive space who installed this junk.

    3. Re:Installing isn't maintaining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't say how many times I've seen someone install SQL

      You can't "install SQL", any more than you can "install C".

    4. Re:Installing isn't maintaining... by evilviper · · Score: 1

      You can't "install SQL", any more than you can "install C".

      Yes you can. Blame Microsoft for co-opting and corrupting the term. Their database product has no other proper name than "SQL".

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    5. Re:Installing isn't maintaining... by Let's+All+Be+Chinese · · Score: 1

      It does, actually: "Microsoft[R] SQL Server[R]"

      And yes, they often do co-opt many terms and do that deliberately. In this, case, though, they still did but not to that extent--that's just the lusers talking. They aimed for that, of course, but "SQL" is not quite entirely the proper name of the product.

  28. Sinking ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rats usually 'leave' the sinking ship, not flock towards it.

    Did occur to you that there are also jobs that don't require experience with SQL databases, and Microsoft Exchange, and they just might be better for your future in the long run?

    If you're successful with your current plan to bring SQL and Exchange into your current job, you'll be forever remembered as that 'A hole who infected our company with SQL and Exchange'. That won't help your references any either.

    1. Re:Sinking ship by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Did occur to you that there are also jobs that don't require experience with SQL databases, and Microsoft Exchange, and they just might be better for your future in the long run?

      Is this something to do with joins not being webscale, or just random garbage?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  29. Trial by fire!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over the last 15 years at my company, I have upgraded to Exchange 5.5, 2003 and 2010 by researching online. No experience with any other than reading books\online posts on how to install and configure. Of course I did have to call MS support once or twice, but even the best admin needs help sometimes.

    Just find a server and install the programs. If you do not have them, see if your company can purchase a Microsoft Action Pack Subscription. Its ~$400\year and gives you full version of their software to run your company. Eventually you will need to purchase them, but for that price you get LOTS of software to learn.

  30. SQL Developer $50, $0 Kindle edition and BIDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work as a SQL DBA and Developer and I can say 90% of my learning at first was digital ebooks and certification exams, my first DBA job was over a 15K bump in pay from the Win Server Admin job I was working at the time. It always helps to have the 1 or 2 years of Windows Admin before going into SQL so there is a base understanding of the operating system and hardware.

    The simplest and cheapest method would be to get the SQL developer edition (Amazon, $43), it has all of the features that the Enterprise version of SQL includes, it just cannot be used for production just development.

    With this version you can learn the DBA role: Administration, logins/users, backup/restores, troubleshooting, T-SQL, managing jobs, writing stored procedures, triggers and automation. Kindle eBooks can be had for under $50 on amazon, there's even a free one called "Introducing Microsoft® SQL Server® 2012".

    The SQL developer version also includes the SSIS and SSRS which is the ETL and Reporting Services part of SQL Server. (moving data and reporting on data) There is a growing need for people who can develop SSIS packages or convert old SQL 2000 DTS, create dynamic reports in SSRS and handling Business Intelligence requests and Datawarehouse needs (this usually includes SSIS and SSRS).

    Try looking for jobs with SSRS and SSIS and check salary.com to get ideas for a career path and also doa google search for "sqlauthority interview questions" to get an idea of what a DBA is expected to understand.

    Good Luck!

  31. Can only quess the environment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The description from the post makes me think of some company with a cable modem coming in from the outside with some crappy SOHO router branching off into a couple dusty old 10/100 switches from the late 90's scattered across the office somewhere in closets that only the guy that was there three or four techs ago know about. Then the office 'servers' are probably a few tower PC's underneath someones desk (if they are luckly otherwise they are strewen around on the floor in some back storage area). Daily tasks probably include helping Sally in accounting find the ANY key and replacing the DVD drive in Dan the boss' son computer after he uses it as a cup holder.

    As far as for a help desk level persons depth of knowledge that they are looking for when they say knowledge with SQL Server is basically to know how to use the Admin too to go in and do import and exports of certian tables and maybe if you are lucky light knowledge of SQL. I'm sure everything will be prescripted for you in some SOP anyway so all you have to do is just read what the DB wrote and do that. You aren't going to know how to create table, triggers, sequences, indexes and all of that kind of stuff.

    As far as helpdesk knowledge of exchange basically they are looking for someone who can set up mailboxes.

    As the job descriptions are written by some HR twit who doesn't know jack anyway.

  32. BitTorrent by sasquatch989 · · Score: 0

    get you some exchange, sql, server 2003/8 (to setup Active Directory) and sharepoint, find and RTM on setup. Enjoy your very own Sharepoint site. Just dont use the software for enterprise use or commercial gain

    1. Re:BitTorrent by D1G1T · · Score: 1

      There is no need for this. Pretty much everything is freely downloadable for evaluation (180 days) from the MS TechNet Evaluation Centre.

    2. Re:BitTorrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, much better than using the free downloads and virtual labs Microsoft makes available. /sarcasm And you get to feel like a Pirate!

  33. Free options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft Virtual Academy and a trial account on Azure

  34. Powershell by eedwardsjr · · Score: 1

    If you want to make yourself valuable with Exchange, start learning PowerShell. A huge bulk of the administration is command line through PowerShell scripts now. For SQL, start working towards a MCDBA. Check and see if there is a MSSQL user group near your area. They usually have training sessions during meeting and it would prove to be very valuable for networking with people in the industry when you start looking for a position. One of the best suggestions (as mentioned before) is pound the virtual labs.

  35. SQL is a language ... by citab · · Score: 1

    not a RDBMS ... Microsofties refer to MS Sql Server as "SQL" ...

    Has always bugged me. My estimation of a person's SQL Skills gets taken down a notch when I hear them refer to SQL and I realize they mean SQLServer ..
    Or as some of refer to it ... Fecal Server

  36. Get certified! by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    I know, I think they are garbage too, but it will at least lend a a bit of credibility to your resume if you have the MS certs for SQL server and Exchange. As for experience or with a non-profit (and these are two technologies that are not usually found in your local church or such unfortunately), if you can't get it through work then build yourself a lab. Grab the free VMware ESX edition and build up a virtual lab environment. You can do this for under a grand easy: case, PS, Intel desktop board, i7 proc, 32 gigs of RAM, extra Intel 1Gb NIC, and a couple of 2TB drives will allow you to run around a dozen VMs (assuming most are not doing much after they boot, usually the case). This will allow you to practice things like clustering, mirroring, etc. When the evals expire, build new boxes and start over. Added bonus: this will get your feet wet with virtualization.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  37. this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships tha by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships that have ways to letter people learn. The trades schools are nice but should be more drop in to learn X skill.

  38. Best bet is to get certified. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft often has "second chance" deals on certification tests.

    Buy the book, study, run samples on SQL Express, then take the test. If you fail, you'll know what the test looks for and can re-take the test.

  39. Network admin? by Leroy+Brown · · Score: 1

    Is this:
      "Network Admin" as in switches, routers, firewalls, etc.;
      "Network Admin" as in the often used anachronism dating from the 80s for novell admins but actually referring to what's presently known as "Windows Admin," or generically "Server Admin"; or
      "Network Admin" as in "Jack of all Trades IT guy" in smaller organizations?

    If you meant the first one, which maybe you did given that you have a CCNA, then you don't need to learn Exchange and SQL server. It won't hurt, but it sure won't help as much as going for your CCNP will.

    Also, consider this a branching-off point. It sounds like you might presently have a job in the "jack of all trades" category, which can give you a high-level perspective of many of the areas of specialization. Pick the one you like the most, and start learning your new specialty. Cross-training on the basics can be very valuable. Learning how to do basic scripting (perl, python, lua, whatever..) will save you much more time over the years than you spend learning it. If you encounter a repeatable process then automate it. If you don't know how, then learn how, and automate it. Sorry if I'm drifting away from your question, and into general advice for someone starting out. :-)

    I also have to agree with some of the other posters, even if it seems like they're trolling. Get that A+ and Network+ crap off your resume! Nobody respects it, and it only serves to accentuate your inexperience. Start cramming and replace it with something better -- schedule your exam today if you need motivation to pick up the books!

    Oh, and lastly.. Don't hang out posting on slashdot. Big waste of time!

  40. Uh, use it? by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Literally the first result on google - Free 180 day trial and exchange download

  41. Buy a used TARDIS.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously. It's 2013. If you want to go the Microsoft way, you're one or two decades late, every moron out there who ever inserted a Windows Server CD in a PC calls himself a Windows Engineer, and they work for even less. Just don't. Try to find a junior-level network engineering/operating job (already worth a lot more than 30k) and get CCNP or CCIE certified while working.

  42. I head the more certs the better by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    I head the more certs the better or at least don't drop ones you have so if some has A+ as well other ones you drop them as well?

    1. Re:I head the more certs the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I head the more certs the better or at least don't drop ones you have so if some has A+ as well other ones you drop them as well?

      Look at it this way, if you have a graduate degree you shouldn't list your high school on your resume. Too many listed certs is typically a warning that you are only "paper certified".

    2. Re:I head the more certs the better by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      not really the same as you are just listing your highest degree.

      certs are more split up

  43. Talk to your boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Write up a business plan as to why using exchange would be best for the company your at and get your boss's approval to install it. When I was a sysadmin for a company a little smaller than yours (it was a side business I had going) they were using windows server small business edition so it came with a dumbed down version of exchange and the cost was pretty low for what you get. I don't recalled if sql server is included in that as well, but as was stated before there are free versions. You can set one up and write a small app for tracking tickets and hardware to justify it.

  44. User groups for SQL Server by RocketScientist · · Score: 1

    I'd suggest finding your local SQL Server user's group or a virtual chapter on administration. Start by looking at www.sqlpass.org, the Professional Association for SQL Server. It's a nonprofit that runs a bunch of user groups and chapters and various free training events nationwide (SQL Saturday for example).

    For specifics on SQL Server admin, the true path to mastery starts with understanding transaction logs, backups, and restores. Paul Randal (http://www.sqlskills.com/blogs/paul/) is the foremost expert on teaching such things, since he wrote a lot of it when he worked for Microsoft. He covers backups, recovery, transaction logs, troubleshooting, and general storage-end stuff. I've been doing SQL Server DBA work for almost 19 years, and his blog still teaches me things regularly.

    As for Exchange, learn the basics of how Active Directory authentication works, how SMTP and IMAP work, and most importantly for any mail administration, how spam filters work and which ones are good and which aren't. Exchange is a complex system and I'm not as familiar with it as I used to be.

    People (especially here) will tell you that Exchange is crap, which totally explains why millions of companies that are profitable use it, because it's crap. Oh wait. That's right, they use it because it works and provides value to their businesses. Perhaps they have logging requirements imposed on them by various regulations (SOX, for example) and they'd like to share the liability if something doesn't go right, have off-the-shelf commercially supported and legally recognized tools for discovery, and having that security blanket provides them with value for their business. If you go into an interview situation and they ask you about your Exchange experience and you start with "Exchange is crap, use Sendmail instead!" they'll thank you politely and walk you out.

    As for anyone starting out in the tech field, especially on the admin side, I'll offer a few little bits of advice:
    Keep things as simple as possible. It's usually cheaper in the short and long run to throw hardware at a problem than it is to build something elegant and hard to manage.

    "Robust" doesn't mean it works all the time. Robust means it fails in predictable ways.

    Centralized Logging + Morning Coffee means never having to tell your boss you don't know what broke overnight.

    Checklists. Build them, use them, every time. Server builds. Software deployments. Backup procedures. Restore procedures.

    Don't plan backups. Plan restores. Figure out how you want to recover from a backup, and then figure out how to do backups to support that.

  45. Do I even have a lawn left? by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    You young whippersnapper get on the front page of SlashDot with questions on how to get job experience as a junior Windows admin. When I was your age I just installed the product and played a bit with it, asked some questions on usenet and then did an exam. Shortly after that, I discovered that once you had the certifications, there wasn't much of a career left to make with MicroSoft products so I switched to better paying operating systems and gigs. Look around you, plenty of jobs in IT don't even require knowledge of even a single MicroSoft product. You're just looking for jobs that require your skill set and find out that they also want MSSQL and MS-Exchange. They all want the world and are happy with a few countries, delighted with a whole continent. Just apply to the job and state that you've learned the rest of your CV's skills in relatively short time and have no doubt that you'll pick up exchange and sql quickly. That's what experience will teach you, not how to admin an Outlook frontend box....

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:Do I even have a lawn left? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      installed the product and played a bit with it, asked some questions on usenet

      Shhh! 1st rule (see also: 2nd rule).

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  46. Really Sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It makes me really sad to see the CompTIA certified people absolutely beaming with pride. All the while I'm thinking; yea that and a couple years experience will get you a job answering phones for level 1 tech support.

    Step 1: Open script to page 1
    Step 2: Thank you for calling...

  47. Ask for a raise by guruevi · · Score: 2

    If you can't get a raise, then look for other work.

    Given you know nothing of either Exchange or SQL... what do you do right now for websites, databases and e-mail? Get a handle on your own environment first, know how it works down to the detail.

    Exchange and MSSQL Server are just implementations of an MTA and a database server. You've got to understand the principles first. I had minimal experience with MSSQL but when I moved from a hosting company using primarily MySQL to a manufacturing company using MSSQL, I had no issues understanding that it was slow because the tables didn't have any indexes or that it was unsafe to use in-code SQL statements.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Ask for a raise by Shados · · Score: 1

      that it was unsafe to use in-code SQL statements.

      Its unsafe to concatenate sql statements in code you mean. In code parameterized queries are perfectly safe, and used all over some of the most security sensitive systems in the world.

    2. Re:Ask for a raise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that it was unsafe to use in-code SQL statements.

      Its unsafe to concatenate sql statements in code you mean. In code parameterized queries are perfectly safe, and used all over some of the most security sensitive systems in the world.

      Even SQL built of from concatentated statements isn't unsafe if escaped correctly using the vendor's libraries. It is not best practice (because developers might forget the escaping) and there may be performance disadvantages, but it isn't intrinsically unsafe, no matter how many times the mantra is repeated on Slashdot.

  48. Easy! by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

    I had this problem too. I found a way around it...first, you need to have 2-3 IT friends that are on the same level as you. One of you needs to go post a few "jobs" to something like ExpertsExchange or such, with requirements like these jobs are looking for. Something along the lines of a single server or two, IIS, SQL, Exchange, OWA, AD, etc, and maybe 5-10 workstations. Have the "contract" on EE spelled out clearly, use all the PM jargon you can. Then post it, build it, and do part of it...build the server however you can (warez if you need to), get it stable and running so you actually know what your doing. Pay yourself, rate yourself. Boom, resume fodder. Your not lying, it's just a...misdirection of sorts. If you say the client is overseas, have an email address they can email to check up on...your the one answering the emails, or your buddy. Use gvoice if you have to to get an out-of-town phone number to trick the HR drones. Say you did the work as an Independent Contractor, but now you want to go corp to get insurance or something. This will work, we did it quite a bit. After the first time your done and you have real experience you can just drop this off your resume.

  49. technical school != CS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its okay, he's a technical school grad, not College CS grad.

  50. Go work somewhere else by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

    Get a job at another company that uses that stuff. You can do helpdesk or junior network admin with the experience you have now. Offer to help out the database team with basic tasks, if their workload is anything like our team's is, they will not turn you down. After you build up some experience there is often room for career advancement.

    I could probably almost double my salary if I moved to an app development or dba role, but the headaches those guys have to put up with just makes it not worth it to me. At least at our company. Engineering just seems to be a lot more by the book.

  51. Play with SQL, Dont worry about Exchange by Iswandulla · · Score: 1

    My advice is to start reading the best practices documentation for SQL, and hit MS first. Dont play with the other stuff till you feel realy comfortable with MS SQL Server. It will give you the most bang for the buck (or time) that you spend this early in your career. I wouldnt worry about exchange beyoned a basic maintnence level. With 365, most companies will start moving to that model. Its cheaper than spending 100k + every couple years upgrading, re tuning, all that bs when MS comes out with a new Exchange version. Virtulization has moved to the point where its almost a deriment no knowing it, and you can learn that so you can then sandbox MSSQL. Good luck, and welcome to the Lions den, hope you brought your sheild and spear..

  52. Lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Learn on your own and create a project that you would need it. Then put it on your resume as having done it at work. Too many people lie. I don't and I'm a fool not to.

  53. Clusters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are plenty of those who know SQL. So learn about database clusters. How to set them up, how to backup them, how to replace a node on fly, how to debug slow queries etc. Learn a little also about NoSQL, at least enough that you know what it is about. I would not bother with Exchange at all, e.g. our company is currently in a process of getting rid of it and moving to gmail. The future seems to be in clouds and clouds are build from clusters that can do dynamic load balancing.

  54. Initally totally agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wanted to say something like; get an older textbook that covers drawing schemes visually, and learn to redesign into various "normal forms". Learn about integrity constraints etc; All your initial points relate to actual understanding of SQL which is transferable to all most any DBMS.

    At the end though I think you laid the sarcasm on too thickly. Perhaps you want your message to be selectively communicated?

    1. Re:Initally totally agree by Let's+All+Be+Chinese · · Score: 1

      If it was sarcasm then the original question was a troll (and the question about SQL secretly about redmond's "sql server" offering only). Either way, it certainly was ment to be anvilicious. Some audiences need delivery that way.

      The possibility didn't change the points about SQL and email from principles, so I happily bit.

  55. I was going to just go eat... by AdmV0rl0n · · Score: 2

    But, I started out long ago. Here is how it rolled.

    Started by accident. Foot in the door was someone I knew needed an AS/400 night operator. This job basically entailed loading tapes at given times, and handling print runs and batch jobs, and escalating where needed to 2nd line. That job ran for a while..
    That place decided to downsize and change, but the AS/400 stuff gave me enough to go look for more. I ended up in a place with AS/400 and Novell. They moved across adding Win 3.1 and 3.11 and NT4 with MS mail.
    This worked through 95 and 95b (at the same time at home at this stage I was running a mob of stuff, a Cyrix IBM 5x68 and some mixed Amiga gear. The office was moving through 286, 386, and 486 gear.
    Carried on as AS/400 and PC support continued to cross over, with growing aspect on PCs and support.

    Moved to London, carried on, the AS/400 stuff faded and I ended up full on covering PCs, Networks, Servers.
    I've been through the whole MS family and I started on Exchange 5 through to the current 2010 release.

    Cutting to the chase.
    1. Get Technet. I don't know if current circumstances allow MSDN, but get a technet account. Anyone, and I mean anyone working with MS software, PC stuff in their job aspect should have a Technet account. No discussion. No If's, no But's.
    2. One of the short comments above was one of the best. Get an MS virtual academy account, and get a trial of Azure.
    3. I'll assume you already use virtualisation. If yes, hit 4. If no. Stop everything else. Now go explore Hyper V. Learn it. Learn how to set it up on domain (easier) - and off domain (who made this shit) - and go find a tool called coreconfig from codeplex.
    4. Check 3 carefully. Check it again. Anything you are going to build in MS-SQL or with Exchange going forward will likely sit on Hyper V.
    5. The requirements of single handedly working on a large scale MS structure of AD, MS-SQL, and Exchange - have basically gotten pretty huge. So large in fact you'll then need to become expert in System Centre. So, slow down. Start to work this carefully. If you plan to do this, and you really mean it, start with some core parts, like Hyper V, and build an exam path and qualify what you can as you go.
    6. 5 is an enormous workload today in 2013. If anyone claims otherwise, I think they are talking shit. You are likely to end up majoring in parts, and being laymen in others. My suggestion is that if you choose to do Exchange, and you like it, then built it, test it, exam on it, and make the cert grade. If likewise you work on MS-SQL - and you like it, commit to a focus.
    7. The world is full of laymen. Then numbers of people who know enough to be laymen is legion. There are way too few people who really know their shit. In the near future, the laymen are the ones who are heading out of this, don't be one of them.

    8. IMHO, although I have said stuff in the above, I believe the above is an environment Microsoft are actively looking to kill, damage, reduce, and replace. As such, be exceptionally aware that you may take the above path and be heading for oblivion. Microsoft are buying more servers than anyone else at this time, and have done this for an extended period of time. Their sole intention to a greater degree is to make cloud their business, and make everyone else out there run their business on the MS cloud. And by MS cloud, I mean a non user serviceable cloud run by Jeffrey Snover level powershelling autobots, because the size and scale by intention is to make what I do now, and what I think you seek to do in near future - too expensive, too slow, and legacy. AD, PC management, Mail, and SQL won't be staying on our Local Lan's, and our users are already mobile. Areas like backup and system management will get automated out, or reduced. So, go look at point 2 carefully. The trial azure account, and learning azure to a level you were considering for Exchange and MS-SQL may be your first step along with Hyper V - and then you may take modifed roads on handling Exchange and MS-SQL azure versio

    --
    We`re all equal .. Just some of us are less equal than others.
    1. Re:I was going to just go eat... by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      And by MS cloud, I mean a non user serviceable cloud run by Jeffrey Snover level powershelling autobots

      Those are actually Decepticons.

      The idea of becoming serious about Hyper-V is worth considering. Knowing a lot about virtualization is an overlapping skill set with considerable value of its own. It may be too much to chew off at once though. If the positions someone has their eye on involve Exchange and SQL, it's quite reasonable to gain basic skills at setting up virtual test servers and then moving onto those things. You can easily get lost in virtual systems for a long time, but that alone is hard to turn into a useful career path. A virtualization expert who is also a fair DBA is not going to be considered a skilled DBA by anyone, whereas a skilled DBA who knows a bit about virtualization can easily get a job.

  56. Don't forget your transferable skills by greg_robson · · Score: 1

    Technical skills can be obtained but they are something that anyone can get.

    The soft skills are important too. I have managed Exchange in the past and I'm currently training for my first SQL Server qualification after a year of optimising and improving the maintenance of some business critical databases. (About 10 years of SQL/Access experience from before that)

    Both require the ability to maintain uptime, schedule appropriate and timely maintenance and the ability to fall back should your "easy" upgrade go completely wrong. (This is often not your fault!). Have you set up WSUS to roll out Windows Updates to computers for you? Do you vet updates and roll them out to small subset of PCs before allowing the update to go out across the network to make sure that there isn't an issue? One rogue update can cause a day of grief if you have to manually uninstall it.

    Do you maintain backups? Do you test them regularly?

    Do you produce good, well written documentation? You may be replacing somebody who has been sacked as something has gone wrong and their documentation consists of post-its on servers saying "reboot me every Thursday at 5pm, managers in a meeting then.".

    Things like this are probably more encouraging to an employer who has critical services (and all services become critical if they go offline!). Eager people can learn fast, they can also make critical mistakes very quickly if they make quick assumptions.

    I have only recently started with the SQL Server books and—to my surprise Microsoft—I have been pleasantly surprised. They acknowledge that they cannot teach a fixed solution. The books teach that "X, Y and Z are solutions", but also ask you know the reasons WHY you would pick one above another in a given situation.

    I second the idea of helping a voluntary organisation as well then are often in need of expertise and going into a real world scenario and being able to fix issues and improve systems is valuable experience.

  57. Don't - stick with what you know by trboyden · · Score: 1

    To be honest, you'd be better off applying for strictly networking jobs where you can show your experience with what you have done so far. Find a good networking job that will use all of the skills you have learned and that will pay you the same or better than the low-ballers that want to hire one person to wear many hats (i.e. do 5 jobs for the price of 1). They are out there, especially at academic institutions and network appliance vendors. Network appliance vendors, specifically firewall and traffic screening, will also get you experience in network security, which would be more closely related to what you do now, versus learning a different career path of application server management. Network security is extremely lucrative right now and would be the better direction for you if you want a long career. MS Exchange and database storage is rapidly moving to the cloud, and on premise management is declining or moving towards managed services. The database people still in the office are more programmers than server/application technicians. I'm not saying there isn't a need for DBAs or SQL Database administrators right now, but the scene is quickly consolidating and moving in other directions. If you really want to learn all those apps, by all means take more Microsoft training classes and join a consulting company, you'll get the experience you want, while it lasts.

  58. Jobs offering OJT by phoebusQ · · Score: 1

    One way to get such experience is through a company looking to hire and mold candidates. I run an intensive training program for incoming folks at our hosting company which includes SQL server, IIS, and AD. We're hiring some folks to start in July so email me if you are interested, d d rem u n d@ gmail.

  59. The question is do you want to be a DBA? by NetNinja · · Score: 1

    You have a CCNA and you are only getting paid 30k? UH I hate to tell you this but you should be in the 60k Range. If you are not MOVE to where the jobs are.
    You are exactly right you are getting paid peanuts. Let me impart my IT wisdom upon you. You work 40 hours a week and they pay you for 40 hours a week.
    That is called an even. You worked you got paid.

    Don't waste your life at a company who doesn't value your talents. Sure money isn't everything but make sure you are getting maximum benefit for your output.
    Don't work at companies who don't upgrade their equipment. You will fall behind and your skills will be less marketable.
    Don't work for companies who don't value IT. That's most of them
    Don't work for companies who have old tired equipment. You don't want the 2:00am phone calls.
    Don't work for companies where you are the entire IT dept. You become the angry IT guy who is still doing Desktop support work for dumb users.

    You sir need to move now!

  60. Wow.. and some advice.. for SQL anyway by Rytr23 · · Score: 1

    Firstly, you certainly do have some balls asking something involving MS on slashdot that doesn't involve shitting on them in some way... But really, you should find a local SQL Server user group and attend the meetings, they usually have some decent presentations and a good chance to network and likely find people looking to fill positions from Jr-Sr level, also attend any local SQL Saturdays. It's a full day of training for free or 10 bucks(for lunch) and usually has really useful sessions from 100-400 level. You can pick up a Developer edition of SQL Server, it's relatively cheap (50$) and has all the features of Enterprise, to mess with. Set it up and start using the features.. Alternatively you can check out several blogs about SQL that walk you through setting up a lab, complete with AD, DCs, SQL Servers etc all for free. That will let you try all features you could ask for in almost any configuration You may want to pursue one or more of the certs available just to get through the HR filters as well..

    --
    So many injustices..so little time..
  61. Re:this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ways to letter people learn

    You should try using that preview button properly. You might catch some of your own errors and eventually learn to post something that isn't utter gibberish.

  62. Easy by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    The easiest way to learn SQL is to get Microsoft Access, get MYSQL server, setup a server, use Access as the front end and then build an app for... I dunno, recipees or something.

  63. SQL? by niado · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After a quick perusal of the comments I haven't seen this mentioned yet.

    Dude, you have a CCNA.

    You aren't exactly clear what your experience has entailed so far, but, (if you enjoy networking) you should try to continue down that path.

    You're already a considerable way down the networking road with the CCNA. If you have been getting hands-on experience with Cisco gear at your current job, I would definitely leverage that to try and get a more networking-intensive position somewhere, where SQL experience would be superfluous.

    1. Re:SQL? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      yeah really, why does he want the massive pay cut of being a microsoft bloatware monkey?

      true heavy duty exchange experience that is worth money would be knowing how to set up and admin clustered disaster recovery with virtualization, i.e. Vmware and SAN with Exchange experience.

    2. Re:SQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any schmoe can get a CCNA by taking a weekend boot camp course. He's not a "considerable way" down any networking road. The entry Cisco certs used to mean something - 15+ years ago.

    3. Re:SQL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...they take way more time than that. My school took a year to teach the four CCNA courses, and they were rapid for the people who were new at the stuff.

      I'm not saying that a weekend boot camp course would be impossible, but I'd reserve at least four weekends for it...

    4. Re:SQL? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Dude, you have a CCNA.

      This was my initial thought, as well.

      Maybe he's applying at smaller companies where they expect their network admins to be more Jacks of All Trades. He should apply at a large company where the CCNA and a bit of experience will be plenty good enough for entry-level.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  64. Eel your way into it (and a bit of advice) by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    And a foreign key is just a copy of a primary key in another table, plus constraints. Learn that one :-)

    If you want to give your employer a bit of value in your SQL experiments, show him an Iron Speed demo. Ain't free, but it's cheap, and you can pump out a lot of web-based reports for them quickly (Bosses love reports, and they love quickly). You'll also learn your way around IIS (yes all you out there, Apache rocks, I know, I've heard it, I've supported it. Give the guy a break, ok?) which means you can learn about Exchange's outlook web access at the same time, if they're running Exchange - and most businesses will, for a while longer anyway.

    Also, if you're on an intranet (not talking about DMZ here) you definitely want to specify Active Directory security integration, and don't muck with the default collating order unless you really know you want it.

    And don't use auto-shrink. At all.

    I've found SQL Server Central to be useful sometimes http://www.sqlservercentral.com/ -- go there and start reading.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  65. MSDN subscription by dave562 · · Score: 1

    Get an MSDN subscription from Microsoft. The subscription will provide you with access to fully functional copies of all Microsoft back office server software (Exchange, SQL, SharePoint, etc). Setup a VMware ESX server, or use Microsoft Hyper-V. You can build your own lab environment and tinker away.

    The road block you will eventually hit is that running SQL and Exchange in a small lab is nothing like running it at scale. There are massive differences in storage architectures and performance when you start trying to scale the technologies.

    VMware has some good tech books on virtualization best practices for SQL and Exchange. Follow those. After 15 years in IT, it still amazes me how many jokers neglect to follow vendor best practices and just do whatever they feel like when it comes to deploying production systems. It is good for me, because I get paid well to fix other people's messes. It is not good for the economy, because money is unnecessarily wasted cleaning up problems that should have not been allowed to manifest in the first place.

    1. Re:MSDN subscription by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a TechNet Subscription. It costs 1/5 of what MSDN costs. I got mine for $400 and it was the upgraded version.

    2. Re:MSDN subscription by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I second the other AC - get TechNet instead of MSDN. TFS implies someone seeking broader admin skills, not dev skills. MSDN is designed for devs.

      - T

  66. Microsoft? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know for your region, but here (Montreal Canada), Being a MS admin does not means high salary, in fact MS certification may be bad in a CV (most people will think you are only good to check and uncheck boxes). Best job are for Unix/Linux admins, Net admin (mostly CISCO) or VM admin. Easily 20 000$ to 30 000$ difference in salary between MS and Linux admin.

  67. Consulting for the win by RichMeatyTaste · · Score: 1

    Go consult for small to midsize businesses. Sysadmin skills less useful as automation becomes more prevalent/affordable throughout everything tech. You can learn more in 1 year of consulting than 5 of general sysadmin.
    Learn basic Exchange/SQL setup/admin on your own first in a home lab. Realize that the difference between single-server/site Exchange (really no single server anymore with 2010 due to DAG) is wholly different that multi-site/server/large DAG setups BUT the basics are very helpful. If you want to go nuts, setup a multisite AD environment in your home lab and setup Exchange in both sites. Separate as many of the Exchange roles as you can to learn more about how they talk to another another within/between sites. Read MSFT forums concerning Exchange troubleshooting to see what kinds of problems people are having.
    Offer to help out for free on after-hours/weekend work involving Exchange (or whatever else).
    Just remember that Microsoft is pushing Office 365 heavily, especially for mail. Onsite e-mail will become rarer and rarer unless a business explicitly needs it (TCO for any enterprise class e-mail solution can get expensive). With Exchange no longer doing single instance storage you either need lots of DAS on your server or lots of array space, both of which can get costly.
    Suggestions: OpenStack (open source virtualization), Puppet or Chef (automation), and VMware if possible. VMware is the most useful of those, but the other three are only getting bigger.

    --


    Ever feel like you are driving the getaway car?
  68. Easy hands-on experience by kimvette · · Score: 1

    Build a Core i7 maxed out with RAM (32GB) and install the evaluation of Windows Server and Exchange in a VM. Experiment with various scenarios, and try hosting your own domain at home (you may need to upgrade to a business internet account to get port 25 unblocked)

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:Easy hands-on experience by kimvette · · Score: 1

      For SQL Server, download MS SQL Express - find a few F/OSS programs that use it as a back end and start looking into backups, SQL dumps, SQL imports, detach, shrink, detach, and attach via both the UI and CLI. Also, experiment with SQL to learn Microsoft's flavor of SQL and it wouldn't hurt to compare it to MySQL and Oracle's flavors of SQL (there are various differences in data types, syntax, etc - not major but enough to completely break a straight dump and import between platforms). Also learn a little bit about tuning and database optimization.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:Easy hands-on experience by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Why do you need to spend that kind of money? You can screw around with Windows Server, Exchange, and SQL Server on an old P4. It's not like you have to support hundreds of users with your home test machine.

    3. Re:Easy hands-on experience by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Have you run recent builds of Windows Server and Exchange? It would be /painfully/ slow on a Pentium 4. First, you NEED to run 64-bit Windows to run exchange (besides Windows Server doesn't even come in a 32-bit flavor since Win2K8 R2). Secondly, it sucks a LOT of RAM. How many Pentiun 4 motherboards can accept 16GB+ RAM, and secondly, where are you going to find reasonably priced RAM? For the price of 16GB of DDR2 RAM, you could easily get 32GB DDR3 RAM, for two systems and have enough left for a halfway decent Ivy Bridge motherboard or a modest SSD.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    4. Re:Easy hands-on experience by kimvette · · Score: 1

      And yes, I realize 64-bit Pentium 4s exist, but good luck loading a Pentium 4 motherboard with enough RAM for Exchange to be useful (check DDR2 vs. DDR3 RAM prices. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on any Pentium 4)

      Windows Server has become so bloated now that it will consume 1.2 to 2 GB just for the OS and basic services, let alone having Active Directory, DNS, DHCP, Exchange, and SQL Server running. For all that you'll want 8GB for it to be minimally functional, and 12-16GB for it to be useful enough for very small-scale production or for rapid completion of labs for educational purposes.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  69. Think you might be missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read through your original question and everyone is suddenly trying to show you how you can learn SQL. The thing is what do you want to do? someone once said "find what you like doing and get someone to pay you for it". Ask yourself what you want to focus on and then go do it, living at home? IT can take you anywhere on the planet so if you are only looking at something close to home then you will be limited.

    The simple answer is the one stated above EXPERIENCE is everything, and not a home lab setup, get out there, if you ""want"" to do SQL / DB fine, set a target say 3 / 5 years maybe taking on contracts which is the quickest way for you to cover the most ground, this may not be right for you it's your choice, if it is just cover everything you can, MSSQL, MySQL, Oracle, Postgresql. MongoDB.. etc etc

    If you "love" -- key word !!! Networks stick with them, ignore the certifications and get EXPERIENCE then certify in what you LOVE to do. IF you want to be an FTE then it is a slower road to broad experience unless you wind up in a consultancy of course, choice is yours buddy, find what you enjoy doing and if it was me.. get out of home, travel from job to job and then ... just make sure you put your heart into what ever your doing, the rest will all fall into place after that ;-)

    More jobs .. more experience .. more defined projects .. more deliveries .. their is only one secret to moving from job to job and that is love what you do, then they will not want to let you go .. that is when you can say "hay I really enjoyed doing X, and they want me to stay full time to do X" then .. it's all down to you .. have fun out there

  70. have you heard of Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude cut the crap! Eat bash for breakfast and you will be rewarded with steak dinner!

  71. Technet by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    It's like $150 a year and gives you pretty much anything you want, legit. Download and start hacking.

    Ignore the CCNA weenies. Most Cisco admins are putzes who are glorified cable pullers.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Technet by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Ignore the CCNA weenies. Most Cisco admins are putzes who are glorified cable pullers.

      That is a grossly unfair comment. And no I don't have a CCNA or spend more than about 20% of my time looking after network kit.

  72. Labs for SQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/learning-center/virtual-labs.aspx

  73. Re:this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships that have ways to letter people learn. The trades schools are nice but should be more drop in to learn X skill.

    IT moves way too fast for that.

    I didn't learn SQL until I was 5 years into my career. Virtualisation didn't start to take off until late last decade, now it's everywhere. The versions of Windows and Linux I would have done my apprenticeship on would have been obsolete a year after I finished. A carpenter almost never needs to update their skills after their apprenticeship, sysadmins always needs to be updating theirs.

    IT education needs to be more focused on how things work, then extrapolate what you need to do, not how to do things by rote memorisation. In this regard it's more suited for the university style of education as opposed to an apprenticeship.

    That being said, more companies need to offer paid internship (as opposed to an apprenticeship) for new sysadmins to get experience. Taking on juniors and giving them enough real world experience to turn them into seniors in a few years. This is the way it works in Australia where unpaid internships are illegal (The ATO and FWA will nail you to the wall for not paying staff).

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  74. Technet and certifification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the Migthy$hit products, get a Technet subscription, to get access to most of their current software, look for 35% off coupons on the net. Then you have the software legally.

    Then do like the other suckers, read a book, get certified in your book knowledge (or buy examn questions from one of the webpages, I can pass most examns after studying for a day or 2 with those). Lots of places wants to hire unqualified staff as long as they are M$ certified.

    The workplaces requiring the good staff knows that almost all of the best people don't have the certifications anyway, as their workplace can't live with them long enough for them to go on a week training for the sole purpose of some worthless paper.

    After a few years at a company where certification is more important than knowledge and experience, you might have been in enough shite hits the fan situations to have recevied experience points enough to move on to a better job. In those companies, anyone is is more intelligent than certified has a chance to raise above the rest.

    Many companies are now moving to Office 365, the new Migthy$hit product with random limitations that really makes it of limited use for companies (30MB per mail, limited number of mails per user per day ...). To go there, you should be well versed in SAML (implemented as ADFS in the M$ world) as well. Companies are also moving their $hitepoint sites to the cloud. So less and less Exchange and SQL is needed in the company.

  75. Do you mean Microsoft SQL Server? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "SQL" is an industry standard. "Microsoft SQL Server" is a database product. Using "SQL" to refer to "Microsoft SQL Server" is confusing.

  76. 30k != peanuts by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    peanuts (Less than $30,000/year)

    That's over twice what I got paid on my first full time IT job, and it wasn't all that long ago. It might not buy you fancy cars or a mansion but it is not peanuts.

    My advise is to read a lot and get some old systems and play with them at home. Or setup some cheap virtual servers and play with them.

    Don't drink too much of the Microsoft cool-aid!

  77. SQL Server Experieince by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is a way of building up your SQL Server experience in a corporate setting.
    1. Create a SQL Server to store information about your network, such as servers, users, hardware, performance monitoring, etc.
            This will entail the following: Creating tables, creating keys, ODBC connections, stored procedures, backups (so they do not grow too large), SQL security. In addition, you can learn SQL at the same time using SQL Management Studio.
    2. Create the SQL scripts to update this information using powershell and/or vbscript.
    3. Now that you have the information, you can use SQL to pull reports from this that you can use as well as pass on to your management. This will enable you to learn SQL syntax and to use SQL Report Builder or Excel to generate reports.
    4. You can take this a step further and build a web front end on IIS to pull this information from your SQL Server.

    This will enable you to learn the SQL in a corporate environment. In addition, this can be justified since you are saving the company money by creating an inventory system using SQL Server. this can be used in an interview that you saved your company money by taking the initiative on your own to build a maintain an inventory, performance gathering SQL Server based environment.

    Me Exchange is different because usually a corporate site already has email in place. I am not sure how the company has setup email.

  78. Re:this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    IT moves way too fast for that.

    and that why 2-4 years pure class room is way to much even more so if it mostly theory.

    That being said, more companies need to offer paid internship not only that it needs to be real work no coffee boy / office boy / copy boy / janitor internship as well.

  79. SQL dev or SQL admin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It always bothers me - a lot - when people claim to have 'SQL' experience, when all they have really done is install the server package and tweak a couple of configuration parameters. That doesn't indicate any actual database know-how whatsoever, and database know-how matters - a lot. Even if you never design or develop databases directly, if you don't understand relational database concepts you have a giant hole in your understanding of how to efficiently organize and manipulate information, which is 90% of what almost any computer application does, whether it's actually using a SQL database or it's own internal data structures.

  80. Experience with charities, churches, etc. by KrispiCritter · · Score: 1

    Coming into this a bit late, and scanned the comments. What I am about to suggest may have already been brought up . . . The TechNet idea is a great one to load and play with at home. You might also seek out small orgs that cannot pay for admin work, like churches, charities, etc. and volunteer to do their admin work for them. You will probably need to load and support open source products, which is a minus for the experience part. But, you can draw parallels between your work at home and the experiences at these other places. Not that you will convince a corp recruiter. But, it might get you into a medium sized place where you can gain the experience the big boys want. And keep up with the certs. That will also smooth the road. Play the long game.

  81. Re:this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships that have ways to letter people learn. The trades schools are nice but should be more drop in to learn X skill.

    We have internships in IT. I did 3 of them before having graduated college.

    Anyway, when you're in IT, you almost always wind up doing something beyond what you were hired for because a situation always arises where someone needs something done, like, yesterday, and there's no time to hire anyone.

    In IT, you're hired for your experience, but you're paid for your brains and agility. Get a job that you're qualified for, excel in it, and expand your skills that way.

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  82. Free Tools To Use by BetaDays · · Score: 1

    I'm probably going to sound like a shill but I'm not. I've been in the Microsoft World my entire life. They have a lot of tools (in a lot of cases free) to help people learn it's just that you have to find them.

    go to http://borntolearn.mslearn.net/

    To learn about not only classes and books to get certified but also free videos on what the exams use.

    And the FREE tools. Some are time limited from 90 or 180 days. You can get free copies of Hyper-V ( http://blogs.technet.com/b/keithmayer/archive/2013/04/05/getting-started-with-hyper-v-server-2012-hyperv-virtualization-itpro.aspx#.UbH21efI58E ) , Free Copies of Windows 8 (90 days), Server 2012 (180 days http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/server-cloud/evaluate/trial-software.aspx ), Free copies of SQL Server 2012 ( http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sqlserver/get-sql-server/try-it.aspx ), and so on. All you need to do is provide a machine to run them on. I have the free Hyper-V running free copies of windows 8, server 2012, and Sql server for my learning environment. Sure they are timed and you have to start over every so often but who cares it just gets easer sinc eyou know what you are doign the secord/thrid time around or you can also use the free virtual labs at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/virtuallabs

    Other resoruces Microsoft DreamSpark if you want to go that route https://www.dreamspark.com/

    Channel 9 http://channel9.msdn.com/

    Microsoft Virtual Academy https://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/

    Microsoft Springboard series that covers new topics for ITs. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/springboard

    If you can go the Hypter-V route microsoft will soemtimes have preloaded virtual machines that have everything configured and ready to learn off of. can't find my links for the ones in the past I've used but once you keep up to date with the other resources you see.

    --
    Paul: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened! - Dune
  83. SQL DBA here.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hear where you're coming from, I struggled to get into my field for years. Now I'm a Sr SQL DBA at a fortune 500 co. I can say that at larger companies you will be more silo'ed into one specific technology (although you have to know how it plays with the enterprise) so decide if you want a smaller co where you'll get to do more stuff, or a larger co where you'll go more in-depth with one technology.

    How I got in:

    Had a good general tech background
    got my certs (MCDBA/SQL 2k at the time) and then went to work for $15/hr at the training center where I had gotten my certs
    There, I learned a LOT of troubleshooting, as it's amazing how people can F something up. That probably taught me the most.
    Finally, with the certs and a reference I managed to squeak in at this co as a Jr DBA making about what you are now. As soon as I started I realized I really didn't know jack.
    Busted my butt and asked a LOT of questions, took on any project I could get my hands on, annoyed my Srs by looking over their shoulders constantly, and learning on my own

    Now I hire the entry-level DBAs, and am making 6 figures (took 5 years to get to this; it's totally doable).

    What I look for:
    Certs (shows you know the very basics)
    Posting on forums (troubleshooting is a great teacher!)
    Passion for the product, through a CBTNuggets acct (I have licenses for my entire team, affordable learning platform) or other such training like local PASS events
    Ability to see how things interconnect. (Yes your disk alignment will affect your performance, as well as your HBAs, indexes, NUMA configuration, load balancers, network latency, database normalization, MAXDOP, query hints, encryption settings, power settings on the server (yup!), LPIM setting...obviously there are many more but it's really quite crazy how much goes into tuning SQL in a large enterprise. Personally, I love it :))

    So I think the takeaway is decide if you want to be silo'ed into one technology or want to stay broad (more money in specializing IMHO), try cbtnuggets or another online tech 'school' to get your certs (they offer more than just SQL btw), post on forums to get a feel for real-world problems, then, as others have suggested, help a non-profit so you can get real-world experience. Yes doing an install at home and messing with it helps too, but there's only so much you can learn w/o knowing the questions to ask (which you'll get in the forums)

  84. Abandon MicroSoft by wad4ever · · Score: 1

    Get into linux instead, and all the awesome free tech in that world. MySql, Hadoop, Cassandra, all these nosql databases are where it's at. That tech is on the upswing, MicroSoft's tech is on the downswing.

    --
    --- wad
  85. Re:this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships by Bengie · · Score: 1

    All of the theory that I learned in class-room has been valid since the 60s. The same basic patterns keep showing up, just with different names and market buzz.

    SQL!! awesome!.. oh, you mean set theory
    NoSQL!!! awesome!!. ohh, you mean hash tables?
    More marketing hype about new tech!!! ohh, that again? What is it's name thing time?

    Nothing is new, just new ways of implementing the old. Not to detract from a better way of using the old idea.

  86. Vindictive by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    If your boss is paying you $30,000 per year. I am willing to bet that he will have 3 fits when you leave. If you don't feel that you are going to get a good recommendation then leave them to stew in their own waste. Basically write down the passwords and leave. In the IT world you are in an abusive relationship. If there is a gap between your old job and your next one and they want you to come in with the "transition" then charge them a consultant's fee of $500-$1,000 per day. They will pay at least that much to have someone new come in and figure out what the heck is going on.

  87. Two resources worth the mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    learnitfirst.com has excellent MSSQL 2008 training videos $99 ( I have not used the SQL 2012 products, but I'm sure they are as good as the 2008 products) and joes2pros.com have highly rated MSSQL books. Also, hit ebay and find a copy of SQL Developer. After digesting some the previous listed resources, the advice given on finding local non-profits that need help is sound. I would also be a regular face at SQL user group meetings. Also, I suggest using VirtualBox on your work PC (if it will not get you fired) and setup a dev copy there. Once installed in VirtualBox, start working with SSRS. Once you create some interesting looking reports (even if you just use faux data) , show those to your boss. If he likes what he is seeing, pitch to him using SQL in your work environment. BI gets and keeps SQL in lots of shops.