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The Free State Project, One Decade Later
Okian Warrior writes "About a decade ago Slashdot ran an article about the Free State Project: an attempt to get 20,000 liberty-minded activists to move to one state (they chose NH) and change the political landscape. Eleven years on, the project is still growing and having an effect on statewide politics. NPR recently ran a program discussing the movement, its list of successes, and plans for the future. The FSP has a noticeable effect on politics right now — still 6,000 short of their 20,000 goal, and long before the members are scheduled to move to NH."
WTF does that even mean? That could be anything from Libertarians who don't want to pay taxes to hippies wanting to set up a socialist utopia.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
These are libertarians, While they do support many liberties, they utterly fail on economic concepts, and are looking to negate liberty through plutocracy via corporate proxy.
Okay, now how do you stretch "News for Nerds" to this?
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
They must be really pro-big government.
Couldn't be bothered to RTFA, eh?
*whoosh*
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
I'm an anarchist. I want a society free from capitalism, the state, and other forms of hierarchy. (Oooh look, communism.)
But even so, I can see benefits in working within the state while we wait for the mythical general strike that will bring down the government and implement the seeds of a new society.
And so I can see the benefits of this style of mass migration. Except, good luck. It ain't working is it. They don't even have 20 000 people after ten years!
Besides, they are still capitalists most of them aren't they. They don't want true liberty, just liberty to accumulate wealth and oppress others that way. And any attempt to go against the wishes of the actual rich (as opposed to the merely wanna be rich) will result in them being shutdown by whichever police force got the bribe quickest. Freedom doesn't just come, you have to fight for it.
HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
There will always be disagreement on some issues of policy. Unfortunately, preserving our fundamental freedoms and the checks and balances that ensure them seems to continually take backseat to all these other disagreements. Committing to uphold the constitution should be a prerequisite to serving in government, not something that is so low on people's priority that none of the candidates even discuss it in their campaign, and all of them violate it when elected. Assembling a large number of people who will put freedom first when deciding who to vote for will be a wonderful influence on our government, even (and perhaps especially) if the people they elect are split on other economic and social issues.
They chose my home town as the test bed.
They attempted to stack the select board with their members using unscrupulous means such as slander stuffing mailboxes without stamps in violation of federal rules.
There is some good as they oppose wind development which largely benefits out of state interests and decimates local ridgetops. As a group they seem like nice folks, kind of like right wing hippies ; )
However they are subverting the will of the public by attempting to hijack local and state politics and a similar bunch has devastated the legislature at the state level and made many questionable laws in defiance of the majority of the electorate.
Probably would be more efficient to have one literal "crazy town" with 20,000 "crazies", than to have services spread across the country......sounds to me like they are all about cost-cutting.
www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
Curiously, for a state whose motto is "Live free or die", NH continues to permit a government monopoly on the sale of any booze punchier than beer or wine. Those two can be purchased at grocery and convenience stores; but if you want the hard stuff it's off to one of the state's state-owned liquor distribution facilities.
So you want to show a difference in libertarian policy, and you choose New Hampshire as your test bed? New Hampshire is already one of the most libertarian states out there, and the capitol of "retail politics" due to it's state in the primary process. The state's motto is "Live Free or Die" already (joked to be changed to "Live Free or Cheap"), you think they come about that one by accident, or because they already espouse these values?
Tainted data from the start.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
The FSP's president is a political refugee from South Africa. It's still in the US, so you have to take your chances with the work visa lottery, but give it a shot! The potential downside is wasting time with some paperwork.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Libertarianism sounds like a nice idea, on paper. Until you get sick from the unregulated chemicals in your Libertarian Utopian job, discover that your Libertarian Health Care determines this to be a pre-existing condition and drops your coverage, your at will employer fires you from your non-union job (remember, you have freedom but don't even think about forming a Union, Liberty!) and all your savings are wiped out in yet another unregulated stock market collapse. Then you're cold, sick and homeless and wondering why nobody cares that you did everything the way you were supposed to and still failed miserably so go die in a hole and by the way there's a $10 hole fee.
Make them responsible for themselves, with no gun laws.
Should sort itself out pretty quickly.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
AS there are no JOBS in NH... From the beginning this "project" screamed, "for rich people only" because those are the only ones that can just uproot their lives and move without having to have a job.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I don't know what these people are trying to prove. We know communism doesn't work, because we've tried it in eastern Europe. We also know that libertarism doesn't work, because take any failed African state and you see that people don't self organize into well-functioning society.
Besides, I really despise these smug libertarians, who thump their chests about liberty and privacy and are not even remotely aware how much they got from this society, not to mention they they are not willing to give any of it back in taxes... Big egos, little brain and compassion.
A lot of people who work in technology care about the impact it has on society and on individuals' lives. To me, for example, the dumb pipes of the Internet are only interesting because of what you can *do* with them: from checking the basketball scores to organizing the Arab Spring. This is why Slashdot as a "Your Rights Online" category.
So to get to "news for nerds" to "update on the free state project" is about 3 hops: nerds -> Internet freedom -> libertarian platform -> libertarian group.
Disclaimer: I don't call myself a libertarian but I agree with some libertarian policy goals.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Also, Ron Paul supporters... apparently gravitating to the Republican side.
Though, my favorite quote is this:
"A lot of people who follow the rabbit hole of liberty have already lost their friends and family to begin with, because they're willfully ignorant of something we believe very strongly in," he said. "And what we're creating is an individualist, intentional community, and I point out the individualist part because we're not a commune or a cult or anything; people can live wherever they want."
In other words, these are folks who are too radical for their own friends and family due to their extremist political beliefs.
They also find themselves to be the only "sane" people around.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
don't even think about forming a Union, Liberty!
Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free")[1] is a set of related political philosophies that uphold liberty as the highest political end.[2][3] This includes emphasis on the primacy of individual liberty,[4][5] political freedom, and voluntary association. A voluntary association or union (also sometimes called a voluntary organization, unincorporated association, common-interest association,[1]:266 or just an association) is a group of individuals who enter into an agreement as volunteers to form a body (or organization) to accomplish a purpose.
Sounds like Unions are fine so long as they are voluntary.
The first time the FSP was on /. I was tempted. The second time the FSP was on /. I signed up.
Now I've lived here for five years. This is the real deal, NH has the perfect state and local government for this experiment. Politics is the unofficial state sport of NH with 400 state reps for only 1.3 million constituents that are about equally divided between the two major parties. Republican and democratic parties engage our ideas, sometimes in battle, other times in courtship. You don't have to explain first principles over and over again, everyone here knows government like fire can be a dangerous master, you get to have debate and make an impact on people and policy with all that stuff as accepted framework of the discussion.
Before I part with'em: two pennies weigh ~4.996+/-0.014g, have a zinc core, and the face of Lincoln. You can keep 'em.
I guess that there's nothing that distances the US from western europe more than the attitude towards taxation. I like to pay taxes - I feel that contributing to my nation is a great way of demonstrating true patriotism. The money is used to benefit those who are less advantaged than me. I cannot believe that anyone who has substantially lived in a country that offers universal healthcare would ever dream of going back to any other system, regardless of the fact that such a system entails taxation.
Likewise, the way in which I judge the success of a country is not by the looking at the elites, but by measuring the sense of fulfilment of the least advantaged; it's a different way of seeing the world, I guess.
As for liberty, doesn't that tie in strongly with what one identifies as the individual - i.e., who one is responsible for? For instance, a family man may wish to fight for the liberty of his family, rather than just himself, - his sense of self is tied into what he is responsible for. Likewise, a good politician works for the benefit of the entire country (or state), with no self-interest - he identifies with the needs of who he is responsible for. In my mind, the larger the community one can be responsible for (and identify with) the more mature one becomes, and the more worthy of respect and honour.
So, if we take on the view that liberty for all is the highest possible achievement, then we find that the libertarian view is not different from the socialist one - there is a need for taxation in order to provide liberty to those who cannot otherwise achieve it - for training, for support, and for developing a sense of value, so that even the most humble person may feel great about the society within which they belong.
I probably left everyone behind by this point. Thank goodness everyone believes in the right to freedom of thought.
This comment was written with the intention to opt out of advertising.
Given that's the definition of socialism, all do. Well, that's ONE definition of socialism from a respected dictionary. A better definition might be "a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned or controlled by the state" (changing AND to OR).
Are you thinking of a socialist country that doesn't meet that definition?
Given that's the definition, that's why when Obama said the government needs to exercise it's "ownership and management responsibilities" of General Motors, and similar statements, people call those ideas socialist - because government "ownership and management" is the very definition of socialism.
This was part of the debate as to which state to move to. As was having a seaport. Free-er trade than the rest of the country could mean big bucks down the road.
Before I part with'em: two pennies weigh ~4.996+/-0.014g, have a zinc core, and the face of Lincoln. You can keep 'em.
What are you talking about, Commie????? It means Freedom!!!11!!!! God bless Ay-Murrrrka!!!111!!11
Presumably, you're one of the idiots who freely believes that al-Gur was responsible for 9-11, and not al-Qaeda...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
They got two trigger groups known to farm for modpoints: $cientologists and Ron Paul koolaid-drinkers with that one. I'd be unsurprised to see the comment buried fast anytime it reaches a 1. Looks like it's been modded 10 times already, a sure sign that the two groups are fighting to keep it buried.
Ohio should be their destination considering that NH doesn't have as much influence over national politics. NH already leans more libertarian than any other state so there isn't much to change other than providing a stronger guarantee that tea party types can't get ahead in local politics.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Rep. Warden’s Democratic opponent in 2012, Aaron Gill, alleged that Free Staters threatened New Hampshire’s ideals. “Imagine what happens when 20,000 Free Staters move here, get elected and vote,” he said in a letter to the Concord Monitor.
Yes, imagine when 20,000 people who are actively engaged and informed about what's going on in politics and the world have the temerity to vote and make their voices heard. 20,000 people who won't just vote a party line. 20,000 people who believe they can make a difference and are actually working to do so...
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H.L. Mencken
If you're going to go around with no seatbelt on, whose taxes are going to pay to clean up the mess when you spread your brains on the pavement?
Our seatbelt-free ways predate the arrival of Free Staters. NH is the only state to not mandate seatbelt use for adults, just for 17 and unders. We also have mo law requiring the use of motorcycle helmets for adults.
Ah yes but when your employer fires you for joining one there will be no government to protect you. Go look up yellow dog contracts.
Fuck Beta
The real problem with the capital-L sort of libertarianism is that frankly, we're not good enough to make it work. Much like communism, you essentially set up a system that's almost trivial to game, and then you ask people not to game it. Recorded history has shown all too clearly what humanity is in the dark: not enough people will uphold the system to be able to support the system.
You could do it in a culture with an absolutely ironclad notion of honor that was so all-pervasive and agreed upon that the people followed it instinctively. In the West nowadays, we actually see such cultures -either from our own histories or from elsewhere entirely- as exotic: we're that far removed from where we'd need to be for a libertarian system to work. But even in these cultures, honor is almost always confined to the warrior classes: finding a culture that actually practices it throughout borders on impossibility. And when you find these, the underlying philosophies don't even claim to be libertarian in nature.
Honestly, this is where libertarians really need to be spending their time. Their goal is a good one to strive for, but the culture simply is not ready. The real work right now is preparing the culture, and as much as political parties would love to think otherwise, you cannot do this from the top down. You have to work from the bottom up: learn how to produce honorable people in an honorless world, then get out into the dialogue and spread the memes. This is slow, but it's the only way cultural change has ever really worked.
And yeah, this means we're unlikely to see a true libertarian system in our lifetime. That's a shame, but honestly, it doesn't really change the odds. Plunk the modern populace down into a libertarian system, and you'll only wind up with Thunderdome. You've got to fix the people before you can fix the system.
Look, libertarians, like any other political group, cover a wide range of opinions. I lean very strongly libertarian for people, meaning, equality in the public space, freedom of choice for one's self, complete freedom of speech, the right to defend one's self, one's family, one's property, personal responsibility, qualification as "informed" by demonstration of same, rather than an (incredibly stupid) age metric, castle-like home property ownership and control (none of this "taking" crap if you actually own it), etc.
At the same time, if you elect to operate as a shop, corporation, or government entity, service provider, road or bridgekeeper, package delivery, etc., singly or in groups, then I'd just as soon see said group pinned right down by laws that ensure that people trying to deal with them receive equal treatment regardless of what groups they might fit in, or not fit in, while protecting the entity, group etc. from people's behaviors that are corrosive to the group on its property.
I really like the idea of a constitutional republic where basic rights are enshrined at a level above the ability to legislate them away; I deeply regret that the USA no longer even remotely resembles such a nation and has fallen down to a corporate oligarchy; and while we, the USA, have failed to hold on just as we were warned might happen, I am all for another try, warts and all.
--fyngyrz
anon due to mod points
You're responding to a DoubleThinker who has convinced themselves that Libertarian == Wrong.
No matter how many times you correct their incorrect thinking, or point out the facts that defy their incorrect claims, they will always think that Libertarian == Wrong. It's so ingrained in their psyche that to try and separate the fantasy from reality would surely destroy the mind itself.
You might as well be screaming at a wall, dude.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
If this turns out like Slashdot, people will move there for the purpose of voting downmods.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I suspect the lot moving to New Hampshire have enough firepower to keep however few Egyptian soldiers visit the place out for long enough. Egypt wouldn't waste the effort. They don't claim the place.
Not sure your rant about what the US govt would do to you is relevant.
The real reason its not a reasonable place to found a community is the fact its an uninhabitable inhospitable chunk of desert with no communications links.
Free Staters are vastly outnumbered by tax exiles from Massachusetts. Something like 10- 20,000 move here every year.
It's cute that you choose to defend the formation of unions in a Libertarian utopia but make no attempt to suggest their won't be rampant pollution, corporate fascism, recurring economic disruption and bitter social Darwinism. Bravo!
You might want to ponder how the Libertarian claims of personal liberty as long as it doesn't harm anyone mesh with their defense that a business (ie. Sacred Property Owner) has the right to hire children and work them to death because hey, they're free to work somewhere else if they want. Oh, also that Libertarians consider children their parents property to be treated as the parents see fit and if the kid doesn't like getting bad touched or beaten for dinner they have the right to run away. So it's totally fine if their parents sell them to a workhouse, when they're ready to seize self-ownership, why they can flee to better opportunities!
I'm not sure where you are coming from with a lot of that? It would seem to me that you have quite an axe to grind with a logical construct. If you can find me some examples of the things about which you write (e.g. a libertarian stating that " if the kid doesn't like getting bad touched or beaten for dinner they have the right to run away"), I will gladly attempt to address your particular grievances, otherwise I'll just have to assume that your ideological opposition has overridden your sense of logic.
Clearly many things that are intellectual constructs have aspects that one can fallaciously conjure into untold horrors, Democracy is no different in this respect. In a Democracy a large mob of people could vote to kill all of a smaller group of people just because they don't like them. Communism is equally vulnerable to the sort of analysis you apply to libertarianism above, if you are unable to work and contribute, what value are you to the collective? Surely you would be a burden and would best be dealt with by elimination or exclusion. If in response you assume that the commune would have a good heart and let you stay in contention to the interests of the mass, then you are allowing your predilection for the same to color your response.
but you need to be able to have jobs. Get someone like Bill Gates interested and then it could be feasible.
Tech would be up to it easily in shallow water - but shallow water means coast, which means some nation will have claimed the territory.
Libertarianism sounds like a nice idea, on paper. Until you get sick from the unregulated chemicals in your Libertarian Utopian job
Pollution of other peoples property would be considered "harming others".
, discover that your Libertarian Health Care determines this to be a pre-existing condition and drops your coverage,
You really should have read those papers before you signed them.
your at will employer fires you
Why didn't you include severance pay in the contract? It doesn't sound very libertarian to forbid those kinds of contracts.
from your non-union job (remember, you have freedom but don't even think about forming a Union, Liberty!)
I suppose that depends on the strain of libertarian you get hold of, but some of them seem to dislike monopolies, yes. Do you like monopolies? Or do you only like them when you get to be the monopolist?
and all your savings are wiped out in yet another unregulated stock market collapse.
As opposed to a good old regulated stock market collapse. I really fail to see the difference. And quite a lot of stocks is doing fine, so stock market collapses is a limited problem for your savings if you have properly diversified your portfolio.
Are you a Poe? The only other option that makes sense is if you are trying to portray people disliking the libertarian ideology as crazies. You can't actually believe that you are convincing anybody with that much froth at the mouth.
My favorite conspiracy is the one where everyone who believes in conspiracies are nuts because there are no conspiracies. Thus all of the laws against conspiracy, people convicted of conspiracy, and exposed conspiracies are really just a conspiracy to make us believe that there really are conspiracies.
So, you are saying we are already in a completely Libertarian country? You pretty much described our current state. Other than the fact that you will be offered emergency medical treatment. Of course, that pretty much only happens when it is too late.
Libertarianism sounds like a nice idea, on paper. Until you get sick from the unregulated chemicals in your Libertarian Utopian job
Pollution of other peoples property would be considered "harming others".
Such a shame the pollution is on my inviolable property, there's no government regulations to even suggest what is a pollutant and you'll have to spend the next 50 years in court proving that it's my fault the aquifer carried what I prefer to call "chemical suppliments" onto your property, and that these "chemical suppliments" are somehow harmful.
, discover that your Libertarian Health Care determines this to be a pre-existing condition and drops your coverage,
You really should have read those papers before you signed them.
Yes, of course! Shame on me for not studying law, or having enough money to hire a dozen lawyers to divine the exact routes which this company layed out plainly before me, in Latin, precisely how they intended to subvert actually paying off any liabilities. What was I thinking, right?
your at will employer fires you
Why didn't you include severance pay in the contract? It doesn't sound very libertarian to forbid those kinds of contracts.
Because of course every job is contract labor, on salary and not hourly minimum wage.. oh wait, no minimum wage in Libertopia!
and all your savings are wiped out in yet another unregulated stock market collapse.
As opposed to a good old regulated stock market collapse. I really fail to see the difference. And quite a lot of stocks is doing fine, so stock market collapses is a limited problem for your savings if you have properly diversified your portfolio.
Of course, everyone has a stock portfolio and minored in stock manipu..management along with that law degree. Also everyone naturally has the wealth to diversify in the first place too, right? Here's the difference between a regulated stock market collapse and a non-regulated stock market collapse: Open a history book, look up Black Tuesday. If you can't figure it out from there, well there's just no hope for you.
Part of the GP's point is that Libertarianism doesn't handle failure well.
Pollution of other people's property as a harm - ok so first you'd have to prove there is pollution, prove there is a harm, go to court, sue for damages, and wait. Meanwhile, the mercury they are leeching into your farm destroys your livelihood as the court case drags on. Eventually you win, but the corporation went bankrupt or left the jurisdiction and you don't get any damages at all.
Basically, a full blown libertarian society would be a complete clusterfuck legal system. It introduces a positive feedback loop where the unscrupulous are rewarded, like today's Wall Street. You'd have to get attorneys to write contracts for everything you do, attorneys to review contracts for every obligation you enter into, and then wind up suing everybody all the time because of perceived differences in whether each party lived up to their end of the contract.
It would work great as long as everybody agreed, but then grinds to complete halt when every single transaction boils down to "will it cost more to adhere to the contract, or force the other party to sue to redress grievances?". In your example about severance pay. What if your employer decides to withhold it because they didn't feel you delivered a product that met the contract? Your options are... sue? go to court? After arguing about whether you met the contract in the first place, you'd then get to sue for back wages. Oh yeah, that works as long as the justice system is infinitely quick and uses onmiscient judges/attorneys that render perfect decision at no cost and delay.
As opposed to a good old regulated stock market collapse. I really fail to see the difference.
The difference is without any regulations, corporations can and will lie, cheat, fake their numbers, withhold information and outright swindle the public all the time. Reputation doesn't matter to a person who can steal enough for the rest of their life. Modern corporations are only concerned about quarterly results, barely even annual, and without any regulations at all the stock market would collapse to pre-limited-liability corporations, sometime back in the 17th century. That would be the eventual result of an fully unregulated stock market, the days when owner's bore 100% of the risk and could be wiped out at any time due to forces beyond their control.
The free staters have nothing to do with the RNC. They're mortal enemies, in fact.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
I'm reading these comments and all I can say is "wow". Libertarians used to make up a much larger percentage of slashdot than it does now. Once a political view reaches a certain low percentage within a group it is almost impossible to have rational, productive discussion. I didn't realize that taxes = freedom or that government = freedom or that wanting to be left alone when you are not bothering anyone means you must be a racist or that you are rich or powerful or selfish and uncaring or insane.
As a Libertarian I never realized any of this. I especially like the part about how rich I am. Every time there is a discussion about how much most of you make I am astounded to see how many of you make about 10 times more than I do. But I'm a Libertarian so I must be rich without realizing it. I'd rather be poor and free than a rich slave.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
The majority of people don't want freedom. They never have and they never will. Only a very, very tiny minority of people truly want to live in a free society. This is why the Great American Experiment has failed so spectacularly. It always lacked popular support.
I think the only way for such a society to exist is as a small community of like minded people. This is why the Free State Project is basically a good idea. The whole NH thing didn't work of course because there aren't enough Libertarians to form a majority against the pro-government people in NH or anywhere else. Most of the bad laws are federal anyway. The state would have to literally secede and be able to fight the army successfully in order to do so.
If there is ever to be another Libertarians society, something like 18th century US system, we would have to basically seize our own piece of land and be prepared to fight and die to defend it. Because we are such a small minority on this planet the only way to do that would be to choose a place that no large state is really willing to fight to keep.
That means some remote uninhabited island, probably in the Southern Ocean or a piece of Antarctica itself. I just can't picture a large nation going to war to defend either the Antarctic Treaty or a claim to such remote and desolate land.
Unfortunately, in addition to building a permanent settlement in some of the harshest conditions on the planet we would have to start manufacturing weapons almost immediately to anticipate the inevitable war.
If interplanetary space travel ever becomes practical and affordable we would have the option of starting a free society off world, but those conditions would be even more harsh than Antarctica.
BTW, Wyoming is a freer state than New Hampshire.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
You're overlooking the fact that government wastes trillions of dollars of our wealth bombing and killing people in foreign countries. It is the centralization of power that enables such "externalities". The libertarian solution might have its issues, but starting wars of aggression and slaughtering people thousands of miles around the world would not be one of them.
The big government system has failed miserably. That doesn't mean that we need to immediately jump to the extreme of no government. We should definitely start moving in that direction however.
Keep telling yourself that.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
First of all most of your criticisms are more toward anarcho-libertarianism than limited government libertarianism. In a limited government form there can be laws against pollution, maybe ones with bigger teeth than we have in our existing quasi-fascist playground.
Part of the GP's point is that Libertarianism doesn't handle failure well.
And our system does? Thank goodness for that or we would have things like superfund sites and rampant pollution on land and in water. Our current system is not noticeably better at handling "failures".
Pollution of other people's property as a harm - ok so first you'd have to prove there is pollution, prove there is a harm, go to court, sue for damages, and wait.
In our current system Corporations enjoy complete immunity from prosecution for doing things like dumping dangerous chemicals. The executives are IMMUNE. In any sort of Libertarian society there would be no such immunity, no "limited liability", no corporate personhood. Those responsible can be fined and/or imprisoned in a limited government libertarian society and they can be fined in class action lawsuits (or whatever) in anarcho-libertarianism.
In our current system and in any other system I can think of proof, some kind of evidence would be deemed necessary. Are you suggesting that anyone accused should automatically be assumed guilty? Any just system would require some kind of trial before punishing someone dumping mercury.
Of course in our current system the government has a nice cozy relationship with our super-citizens, the corporations, who might decide to donate to your next campaign or give you a highly lucrative job after you step down from public office.
Basically, a full blown libertarian society would be a complete clusterfuck legal system. It introduces a positive feedback loop where the unscrupulous are rewarded, like today's Wall Street.
Or IOW like our current system where the unscrupulous are rewarded? Do you have in mind a system where they are not rewarded?
You'd have to get attorneys to write contracts for everything you do, attorneys to review contracts for every obligation you enter into, and then wind up suing everybody all the time because of perceived differences in whether each party lived up to their end of the contract.
This sounds an awful lot like our current system.
corporations can and will lie, cheat, fake their numbers, withhold information and outright swindle the public all the time.
Just like they do now? The only difference being that the executives responsible would have no immunity without limited liability and can lose everything they own if they get caught.
Modern corporations are only concerned about quarterly results, barely even annual, and without any regulations at all the stock market would collapse to pre-limited-liability corporations, sometime back in the 17th century.
Corporations as they currently exist have been compared to sociopaths. A very apt comparison IMO. They act without regard to anything but profit. But even a sociopath has to deal with the consequences of their evil actions. Not so for corporations. They can do whatever they want without much in the way of consequences for the individuals involved. Limited liability was never a good idea. It should be eliminated immediately. Luckily sociopath corporations would not be encouraged in a libertarian society. No one would be around to protect them from themselves.
That would be the eventual result of an fully unregulated stock market, the days when owner's bore 100% of the risk and could be wiped out at any time due to forces beyond their control.
If you are afraid of risk then don't gamble. That owners bear 100% of the risk is how it should be. You complain about evil corporations and then want to give them more power and shield them from any risk?
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Marshfield, WI as well, although they have a bit of a meth problem.
You think that's not a real thing? I am completely not making this shit up. There's a city in upper Michigan that used to be an army air base of some sort. It's like a giant hole cut out of thick pine trees. We were driving and then all of a sudden it turns from forest mountain to creepy old school Fallout New Vegas shit, lol. Guess who lives there? It's a government experiment where they ship in mentally disturbed people, ex-cons, and tons of people on perpetual government assistance there and give them government semi-sponsored jobs and stuff. You basically feel like you need a weapon at all times. We had to do a short contract project up there and it was like the damn circus moved into town and stayed, lol. Just imagine Walmart at 1:00 in the morning times 100 and living in one place with zero normal people. So yeah, it happens.
You seem to have forgotten aboout Alaska, Wyoming, and Montana. NH is Libertarian only for the East Coast. I could never live there due to the suspicionless roadblocks and stop and identify laws. There is a small but active community opposing the roadblocks, which is nice, but they still have them. Live Free or Die my ass.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
I would argue the first in the nation primary makes NH MORE valuable than Ohio ...
I predict that if the FSP pulls it off, the NH primary will instantly become irrelevant. Libertarians will likely win it every time, the other parties won't even bother to show up to contest it, and the MSM won't bother to report the result.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
20,000 screaming idealogues who equate taxes used to educate children to create a literate society with fascism.
idealogical morons, the lot of them.
Absolute statements are never true
What happens to me if I don't pay the government in power? If I don't want any of the services they are offering and really want nothing to do with them?
Guess what? That's not possible.
If you live in a society with a government, you are benefiting from the services that government provides whether you like it or not. Their army, their police, the roads they build, the laws they make protecting the air and water...you literally cannot take a breath without benefiting from the services the government provides.
You say you want a place where people can be "free to live"? Let me tell you what that would end up like.
Within a generation, it would go one of two ways: Either it would be an absolute shithole that no one would ever actually want to go to, because too many people joined it who just wanted to do whatever the hell they wanted and screw the rest of the universe, or a body would emerge that functioned as a government. And if that body wanted to be able to provide anything meaningful to the people of the Free State beyond conflict mediation, it would have to be paid somehow. Donations might work for a little while, but I guarantee that wouldn't last.
Humans in groups naturally gravitate towards some form of governed society. It's just part of the way we're wired. Yes, I dare say something like the Free State project could probably work for a while—with small groups of people who voluntarily put themselves in that situation, and a way to screen out people who just want to mess everything up because they don't think anyone can stop them. But the reason I say "within a generation" is because these sorts of Utopian societies have been tried before, and they have invariably collapsed because the children didn't choose to be there, and don't all agree with the way they're set up.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
I believe https://goo.gl/StBEh is a better than FSP.
A currency with an automatic devaluation _if_ not spent within a month or so.
This of course causes things to be done, since money supply is automatically there... and one is forced to spend it...
Casteism