Acer Pulls Back From Windows To Focus On Android and Chromebook

SmartAboutThings writes "More bad news for Microsoft: Acer is apparently rethinking their Windows strategy, planning to offer fewer Microsoft products and focus more on products delivered by Redmond's rival Google, in the form of Chromebooks and Android devices. This comes after Acer's second-quarter earnings call, where the Taiwanese company posted a surprise second-quarter loss, having unexpected lower sales and rising expenses. Acer's change of plans comes not long after Asus' CEO announced that the company would no longer make Windows RT products until Microsoft proves there's real demand."

Comments

From the ashes into the fire?

[Carewolf]

So they are pulling out of one pointless OS (WinRT) and focus an another even more pointless OS (ChromeBook).

When will they ever learn?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jellomizer]

Microsoft really dropped the ball with RT. That is the problem. They really should have added some PC Compatibility for some legacy systems. Sure you don't need to go back to windows 95 apps. But being able to run any .NET applications may have made it useful.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Luckyo]

Basically they need something, anything to compensate for disaster that is windows 8, until MS comes back to reality. MS can carry over the dry period with it's MS tax and other parts of its business, OEMs not so much.

It's not so much lack of learning as desperation to keep the revenue flow going in the current market.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[chill]

Considering they were profitable with those, they have learned.

I just bought an Acer C7 Chromebook for my 5-year old son. He uses it to watch YouTube videos. My wife liked it so much, she has taken it over and I'm buying another one.

99% of what she does in through the browser. Actually, make that 100%. There isn't anything she uses the computer for that doesn't have a web interface. Stick AdBlock Plus in Chrome and you have a machine that boots from cold to fully ready in 7 seconds, with a fast, clean browsing experience w/Flash and PDF support. (And the only time it boots from cold is when there is a full Chrome update that requires a restart.)

Chromebooks are fantastic devices for what 80% of the population does with computers. For $199 it was by far and away the best thing out there.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Acer isnt "pulling out" of WinRT - Acer never had a WinRT-based product!

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[bhcompy]

Or they should've priced it like the Kindle Fire. Dumb price for a limited product. No .Net is fine, simply because Metro is completely consumer oriented, but you have to price it for consumers

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[squiggleslash]

For reasons most of us don't understand (myself included) the Chromebook is apparently selling like hot cakes, with some manufacturers finding they sell more Chromebooks than all their Windows laptops put together.

And if you think that doesn't make sense, you're in good company, but you only have to look at sales of a device of an even more crippled laptop*, one that doesn't even have a keyboard and requires use only of applications (themselves even more stripped down than normal) that the manufacturer approves of, that costs more than many regular, full sized, full spec'd, laptops, to understand that the market doesn't always produce winners that nerds like you and me see as obvious.

* Four letters, first is lowercase. Rhymes with "Sad".

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[somersault]

Most people don't need fully kitted out laptops any more than you need an amphibious tank, or your own private GPS satellite network..

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chromebook sales are actually doing very well: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-10/google-chromebook-under-300-defies-pc-market-with-growth.html

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[h4rr4r]

They are cheap, that really is it.

If you put them in dev mode and install a better OS they are quite decent. I may buy a pixel just for the display.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[gnasher719]

Yes. Chromebooks is the device you want your 5 years old spending time on watching youtube. I don't know about you, when my kids turn 5, I want them to start writing programs and learn how computer operates. Chromebooks won't be my choice.

That's excellent; although maybe a bit early.

That said, the market for computers aimed at people who want their young children to learn how to write programs isn't very big.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was as pointless as you say, the parentheses wouldn't have been required...

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[h4rr4r]

Why?

You can put the thing in dev mode and do whatever you want. You can even install another OS. So you get a $199 laptop meaning no great loss if it gets dropped or destroyed by the kid and he gets a great first computer.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[edremy]

Having just bought a (Samsung) Chromebook, I think you ought to try one. It's considerably cheaper than either a real laptop or a (full size) tablet. Unlike cheap laptops, it has an 8 hour battery life, can't get a virus and boots in 10 seconds. Unlike a tablet, it has a 13 inch screen and a typeable keyboard. It has a ton of hidden functionality if you figure out how to access it. Yes, it only runs a browser, but I can get my email in a browser, edit documents/spreadsheets/presentations in a browser, access Evernote and similar services, etc. It won't replace my main computer, but it works great as a travel device.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Isn't it slightly breathtaking how Microsoft has put more than a decade into CLR/CIL and all the .NET framework stuff, theoretically putting themselves in a surprisingly good position for multi-architecture support (given a software ecosystem dominated by proprietary applications from loads of independent vendors and substantial demand for legacy support: Linux and BSD do multi-architecture better; but only for situations where 'just ship the source, stupid' is considered viable, and Apple's 'if it were legal, we'd personally execute anybody who produces software compatible with OS versions older than the one we currently ship' approach allows them to bludgeon the ecosystem into compliance; but isn't a matter of technical sophistication), and then utterly fucked up their foray into ARM?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[alen]

what if your kid hates programming and anything like it and wants to focus on the liberal arts?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[alen]

my ipad might not have the paper specs but i can use it on the train to work and on the couch COMFORTABLY
apps like Pulse and flipboard you don't need a keyboard

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Similarly to OSX or Android, ChromeOS is a lot of what we love about *nix minus the staff that scare the average Joe.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then they'll most likely never earn enough to pay for all the DRM protected content they wish to consume.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

some PC Compatibility for some legacy systems.

I actually want more than that... why can't they make almost-full compatibility? Apple did it at a time when they were a much smaller company. Sure, higher-performance x86 apps would suck on ARM, but the UI wouldn't need to be emulated. Maybe they couldn't get Office to run well or something and decided against it. Maybe they were in a rush. Or maybe they just totally misread the market.

There is little reason to buy an RT tablet until the ecosystem improves, and now it looks like the partners are bailing before the ecosystem will have a chance to grow. Thing is, they could have had an instant ecosystem with emulation.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[iusty]

Most people don't need fully kitted out laptops any more than you need an amphibious tank, or your own private GPS satellite network..

An amphibious tank, connected to my own private GPS satellite network? Awesome, where do I sign up?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[dimeglio]

Microsoft were simply short sighted in their attempt to overtake the iPad. However, its sheer size and bulldozed-like marketing will more than offset any past failure. I predict a new version of RT will soon be shipping which will deal with problems the initial tablet encountered. Unless of course, they keep running with their blinders on.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Same could be said about OS X and iOS, yet it never is.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you get him a toy grill and a latte machine so that he can prepare for his future career flipping burgers or being an under paid "barista".

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jones_supa]

Is there any hacker functionality, or is it mostly a web browsing and content consumption computer?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[bhcompy]

Problem like price will be dealt with with clearance of unsold hardware. Woot has already has some cheap Windows tablets recently.

Problems like features/software that people want for professional use(or power user use) won't be dealt with either if how they treated WP7 is any indication

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Karzz1]

I predict a new version of RT will soon be shipping which will deal with problems the initial tablet encountered.

From what I understand, the problems associated with Windows RT cannot really be fixed via a new version.

Marketing this product as "Windows", which confused the market place. A true lack of applications. A completely locked-down hardware device. Being extremely late to an already saturated market. These are all reasons that RT failed to gain much traction.

In fact, from what I understand, the hardware itself is not terrible though WinRT is a love or hate thing.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[NatasRevol]

It's right next to the Surface RT display.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but when it's cheaper, why not?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Karzz1]

Aaahh.. but they never specified WinRT in the article, now did they? The articles were referring to full-blown Win8.

And you really can’t blame Acer for not sticking with Windows 8, as the company has put on the market a good number of different-sized tablets, laptops, hybrids and even all-in-one PC units. -- from the article

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

Those cheap laptops are totally unsuited to lap time on the couch. They are heavy, hot on your legs, and have a crappy battery. Many also have a loud fan if you dare to do something like play a game. In my experience, the durability is also bad and constant couch time is hard on things like cheap screen hinges. With an iPad, you can surf all night on the couch and still have enough juice to fall asleep in bed reading. (I have a Kindle - not quite as nice, but same argument applies).

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[oh_my_080980980]

LMOL yeah because Android devices aren't selling...moron...

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Alter_3d]

Unless of course, they keep running with their blinders on.

Like refusing to reinstate the start menu on Windows 8.1 and forcing that metro crap instead of listening to their customers?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MachineShedFred]

They could fix this so easy and fast, but they don't because they are bull-headed and know what their customer wants (or, at least, think they do.)

If there is a mouse / keyboard, use the Win7 UI.
If there is a touchscreen and no mouse, use the tiles.

Regardless of the above, put a radio button in the control panel to easily switch between the two.

I just fixed Windows 8.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

I must not be "in good company", because it makes perfect sense to me, and I've never owned or used a Chromebook, aside from fiddling with one in Best Buy for about 3 minutes.

The simple fact is that not everyone is a hardcore computer user like the slashcrowd. I worked on the original IBM PC, and have been using Linux since the earliest days (with dalliances with every OS on a PC, mini, or mainframe you can name along the way), and if there's one thing I've learned it's that no one should ever think of "the computer market" as a monolithic entity. Computer users are like people who use motor vehicles. Some rent, some lease, some buy. Some are content with an old beater, some want cutting edge, high-performance. Some want green (like my EV), some don't care what it is so long as it gets them safely from A to B at an acceptable cost.

One size does not fit all. Give people a cheap way to have fast, very low hassle access to what they want online, and they'll line up to buy it. And with Chromebooks, they are.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Bert64]

Or just not branded it as "windows"... If it was branded differently then people wouldn't have expected compatibility, and thus wouldn't have been disappointed when they found out that it wasn't compatible...

It seemed to work well for apple with ios/ipad, noone expected to be able to run mac applications on them.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[couchslug]

Chromebook sales are strong. It's all about money, and that is not pointless.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

that is terrible career advice. the robots will be doing those jobs. Now getting him a playskool call center funplace is preparing him for the exciting world of debt collection and car insurance sales.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there any hacker functionality, or is it mostly a web browsing and content consumption computer?

You have an SSH client, but right on the machine? Not really
but you'll have another machine for that anyway

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Penguinisto]

...simply because Metro is completely screwed-up, and because of that you have to price it way lower to attact any interest in it.

FTFY

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[gstoddart]

For reasons most of us don't understand (myself included) the Chromebook is apparently selling like hot cakes

It's not rocket science ... the majority of personal computers will never be used for anything overly complex or taxing on the hardware, and won't be doing anything they can't completely do using the Google functionality of a Chomebook.

Go look at your parents, or people who don't work in tech who pretty much only need a web browser to do everything they'll ever do with a computer. They don't need horsepower, they need ease of use and convenience.

but you only have to look at sales of a device of an even more crippled laptop* ... to understand that the market doesn't always produce winners that nerds like you and me see as obvious.

Well, that's because what we want/need out of a machine is entirely different that your average home user. They just want it to work out of the box, and not have to stress about setting it up.

Even something like media consumption is far easier on an iPad -- you buy the movie from iTunes (or buy the physical disk which comes with the digital copy and download it like I do), and play it. You don't even need to know anything about file formats. If you also have an iPhone or Apple TV, you can use the files there as well without doing any extra work.

With my iPad, I can watch all of the digital copies of movies I've bought. With my Nexus 7, I can only play movies I've ripped myself -- but since Apple stopped giving me updates for my iPad and it has become somewhat crashy, it's now mostly used for watching stuff like the Avengers on airplanes, while my Nexus 7 is what I use for more and more stuff.

Once you understand what most people want and need -- small, lightweight, easy to use, and "good enough" for your needs.

On a trip now, I'm more likely to bring my Android tablet and my iPad and leave my laptop home entirely. And depending on the trip, I might only bring the Nexus 7.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jedidiah]

Except MacOS has no real value as a platform. It is an obscure also ran. Tying it together with iPads for business use doesn't make much sense because no one uses Macs for business.

Microsoft's strength is the fact that it's desktop OS is an entrenched legacy platform. They have the ultimate "ecosystem" that dwarfs anything Apple has. Microsoft's problem is that they failed to make their tablet a compelling part of their ecosystem.

A warmed over iPad clone doesn't work because that's already taken care of.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Gilmoure]

Exactly! Apple named their mobile OS something totally different from their desktop OS, thus setting up expectations that they were the same and would run the same apps. Apple so dumb!

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Gilmoure]

Nope, a bedpan and mop. Senior Care: the Job of Tomorrow!

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jedidiah]

> Even something like media consumption is far easier on an iPad -- you buy the movie from iTunes (or buy the physical disk which comes with the digital copy and download it like I do), and play it. You don't even need to know anything about file formats.

That only works so long as you stay inside the walled garden and only do the things that Apple wants you to do. The moment you add one home movie into the mix it becomes a total mess.

You are conflating crippled with easy.

Your example is not terribly interesting versus a desktop video player that "just works" regardless of the kind of media you throw at it. Powerful systems don't have to be hard. In fact they are more likely to be "easy" because they don't try to ignore obvious common use cases.

A capable system is far more likely to be easy than a crippled one.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

javascript development

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

People that have them tend to love them. They're office productivity devices with the ability to do effectively everything that an iPad can do. In short, they're great for students that don't need a lot of performance (e.g., everything except hard sciences and engineering) and x86 compatibility.

Where the RT falls desperately short is in their performance. Personally, I think that this is why Microsoft made the decision to not allow desktop apps on RT, combined with the added thinking that blocking them would require developers to support the MS Store with new apps following a wishfully successful launch.

If the Tegra 4 that is now almost certainly going to appear in the next wave of Surface RT models, alongside the Snapdragon 800, are fast enough, then I would be stunned if Microsoft was not looking at enabling .NET support onto RT devices. If they don't, then they're as dumb as everyone says about it. If they do, then I think it really was to get new apps written and because of the underwhelming performance of the Tegra 3.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[nine-times]

They really should have added some PC Compatibility for some legacy systems.

Well in my mind, they probably should have picked one direction or another. They should have made it compatible, or they should have made it its own incompatible system, with everything optimized just to run applications written for it. Sometimes when you pick the middle road between satisfying two needs, you end up failing to fulfill either need.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft did listen!

Everyone kept saying they wanted the start button back and they put it back in Windows 8.1.

Apparenty you just can't please anyone.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[gstoddart]

That only works so long as you stay inside the walled garden and only do the things that Apple wants you to do.

Yeah, and Microsoft and Google are trying desperately to get in on that action. Without going into some advanced settings on my Nexus 7 to allow sideloading, it's pretty much the same thing. And I've sideloaded only one or two things on my Nexus 7.

The moment you add one home movie into the mix it becomes a total mess.

Bullshit, I've added ripped movies into my iTunes, and they work just fine. If it's a file format supported by iTunes, you can trivially import the file and have it in there.

You are conflating crippled with easy.

No, you are conflating those two things and you're sounding a little like Stallman. Not everybody has any interest in installing Linux on their device, or writing code on it.

It's an ideological position of "if I can't install GNU Hurd on it, I'm being oppressed". It's also a ridiculously inflexible position which has nothing to do with most people.

But to an end user if it does everything they need it to do, in what way is it crippled? The reality is, it isn't, but people like you piss and moan that it's crippled and useless -- but I guarantee you, my mother in law would think you're a fucking raving idiot talking about stuff that makes no sense to her (which is why I don't discuss such things with her). And I can also guarantee you, there's more people out there like my mother in law than you and I -- people who are far better off in the walled-garden. (OK, in fairness she's got a Nexus 7 not anything by Apple, but the same principle applies)

Your example is not terribly interesting versus a desktop video player that "just works" regardless of the kind of media you throw at it.

Yeah, where are you going to get the video files? They don't give away DRM-free digital copies of movies, so unless your player can integrate with that, you'll have not much at all to watch. If one of the things you want to do is buy a legal copy of a digital movie, you need to be on a system supported by that.

If what I want to do is watch Skyfall on my mobile device, or The Avengers or any recent movie ... short of using a torrent site or ripping the disk myself, how would I go about doing that? The answer is "do without", and that's not the answer people want to hear. And unlike that Ultraviolet shit, once I get the movie from iTunes I can use it on any of my Apple devices, with no need for a network connection to ask permission from the copyright owners to be able to watch it.

For me, in terms of being able to get these digital copies (which is something I value), doing it entirely within the Apple ecosystem is an acceptable trade-off between the functionality I want and everything else I want to be able to do.

In fact they are more likely to be "easy" because they don't try to ignore obvious common use cases.

Or, you know, maybe those use cases are neither obvious nor common to most people using a computer, and they'll never once feel the need to do it -- at which point it's people like you saying "Yarg, but I can't compile the kernel and rewrite the network stack".

If it works for 95% or more of your market, that's what you make it for, because that's where the money is. Those features to keep that last 5% happy -- well, they're probably not worth investing the time in implementing them.

There's essentially two entirely different markets here -- Joe and Sally consumer who have no interest whatsoever in the fiddly bits, and hard core geeks which want to be able to fiddle with everything.

And I can tell you straight up (by looking at the realities of what people have actually bought and from knowing many many people who don't work in technology), that consumer market of people who don't want t

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Nimey]

That's what the SSH extension is for, buddy. They can log into your Linux server (or a VM running on the server) when they're ready for that kind of thing.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is awesome for your chromebook: https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton

You get to run any other full linux distro in a chroot side by side with ChromeOS and switch back and forth by switching X screens.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Nimey]

You can get an x86 Windows laptop for less than $200?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[blackest_k]

They could just be more open with the hardware, like with a laptop. There isn't a particular reason you couldn't run windows rt , android , chrome or linux on a windows Rt designed device. There are advantages and disadvantages to each OS but with the option of running what the user wants then a windows rt tablet becomes that much more appealing.

It's not like apple makes you run osx on their laptops. You are free to boot windows and linux as well and you can pretty much run chrome as a linux desktop too.

I could see myself buying a Macbook before a Windows Rt machine. Rather sad that Microsoft fears being left in second or third place so much it has to go for a complete lock in on the windows rt hardware. If Microsoft sees its offering as second rate why should its potential customers not view it the same way ?

 

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tons of hacker functionality. If you install chrubuntu or crouton (each is interesting in their own right) then you effectively have a full Linux (Ubuntu) box running.

-Chrubuntu: Is essentially a dual boot solution. You reboot into Chrubuntu. It runs pretty fast and lean. I like it except for the power management being crappy, it works pretty decently.

-Crouton: is a chroot environment. You run it, and effectively it's like having a vm of an Ubuntu environment running in parallel. It's a little bit slower, but for things like RDP (which the default Chromebook solution sucks at) and having real access to Linux command line (CTL+ALT+T sucks), it rocks. Additionally it uses the Chromebook power settings and device management, so it works better. Plus it's just a CTL+ALT+SHIFT+Left Arrow key away once it's running.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Githaron]

So in other words, Microsoft did this.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

That we won't have if no one studies the arts. Music and movies don't make themselves.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

what if your kid hates programming and anything like it and wants to focus on the liberal arts?

Then he will need a computer that can use Photoshop and such.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

On the bright side, security is so poor on most devices that I don't think I've yet owned one that couldn't be rooted or jailbroken.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. I don't need to be on-line to use my tablet in various ways (movies, music, GPS, ...). What can I do with a Chromebook without a net connection w/o hacking it?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[chill]

There are:

1. SSH extensions for Chrome, allowing you to SSH to a remote system.
2. Remote Desktop Apps for Chrome, allowing you to remotely connect to a full desktop. Like maybe a dev system you have set up in a cloud environment somewhere.
3. Web-based development environments like ICEcoder and Brackets for web (html/css/js) development.
4. Web-based IDEs for full every other language like Codiad and Cloud9.

Then there is always booting into Dev mode and loading a full Linux system w/dev environment off a USB stick.

My 5 year old is just entering Kindergarten. Pushing him to code at this age is wrong. He needs to be a kid first. And I say that as someone who has already raised 3 kids to become a pilot, a programmer and physical therapist/fitness instructor.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Patch86]

You just described the Ubuntu strategy. And you're right; that does seem like the best design, and it seems so obvious, and it's surprising how long it has taken for any major producers to jump on the idea.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

(Samsung) Chromebook, [...] can't get a virus

Be careful what you post on /.
This sounds very much like a challenge...

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jedidiah]

> Bullshit, I've added ripped movies into my iTunes, and they work just fine. If it's a file format supported by iTunes

"if it's a file format supported by iTunes".

In other words, you are adapting all of your content to the limitations that Apple has imposed rather than the Apple product being good enough to deal with whatever you happen to have around.

Most grannies aren't adept at converting things.

> Or, you know, maybe those use cases are neither obvious nor common

Grannies making home movies? Sure, that's obscure.

That's the problem with the Apple approach. It forces you to distort all of reality in order to fit into the Apple vision. Your consumerism and brand fixation forces you to swim in the Kool-Aid. You adapt to the product rather than the product accomodating you.

I have a file. It "just works". THAT is easy. THAT is granny friendly. The restrictions of Apple's vision are not.

There's a reason that a certain alternative video player is one of the leading Mac downloads. There's a reason why a different alternative video player is the driving force behind the jailbreaking of AppleTVs.

Eventually people get tired of crippled.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[UnknownSoldier]

> Marketing this product as "Windows", which confused the market place.

Agreed.

Apple definitely did a better job marketing and building new brand recognition: iPod, iPhone, iPad. Consumers don't care that they all eventually run iOS. They are a separate market from OSX.

Microsoft doesn't have a cluestick that Windows means pain & suffering for the mere mortals. Microsoft wouldn't know the meaning of sexy marketing even if they did it themselves. *jab at: "Microsoft Re-Designs the Ipod Packaging" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k

Also see: Microsoft iPhone (parody of advert Never Been an iPhone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDryiGn7j5I

--
"When are teachers going to get paid as much as entertainers??"

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[edremy]

Watch movies, listen to music, etc. Google docs works offline if you have local copies (or create new) No GPS though, but then again that doesn't work on my iPad without a network connection either since the maps need to be downloaded. Oh, and the Chromebook has both USB and SD card slots, so you can bring a *lot* more music and movies than you can on any tablet without them (like an iPad.)

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Bert64]

Windows is also a bad choice for kids, for a similar reason... The system is very fragile, easily broken and difficult to fix, and is also full of big scary warnings to try and stop people from breaking it... Such a system is very bad for kids because it teaches them to be fearful of technology, older systems like the C64 were much better because you couldn't break anything - worse case you hit reset and your back at the default BASIC prompt.

This is why when interviewing people for technical roles, those who are old enough to have started out on such systems are much better candidates in 99% of cases.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[gstoddart]

In other words, you are adapting all of your content to the limitations that Apple has imposed rather than the Apple product being good enough to deal with whatever you happen to have around.

Short of ogg-vorbis (which is a file format I've known exactly one person who gave a shit about), I have yet to encounter a file format not supported in iTunes. And for all I know it supports ogg-vorbis, but since I don't own or want anything in that format, I don't give a damn.

That's the problem with the Apple approach. It forces you to distort all of reality in order to fit into the Apple vision. Your consumerism and brand fixation forces you to swim in the Kool-Aid. You adapt to the product rather than the product accomodating you.

Yawn, your rigid ideology and tendency to be an asshole force you to see the world in black and white.

The reality is, when I use the Apple stuff that I own, I have never had to 'adapt' to a damned thing. There isn't a single file format I've ever said "oh, gee, I have to do this the Apple way". I get it, I use it.

There's a reason why a different alternative video player is the driving force behind the jailbreaking of AppleTVs.

And, of all the owners of an Apple TV, what percentage of them have cared to jail-break it? I have never looked at mine and said "gee, I should jail break this" because it would be so much better.

Eventually people get tired of crippled.

They also get tired of smug assholes who think they're superior.

As I said, you buy what you like and do with it whatever you want -- but if you think I or anybody else who isn't an open-source zealot give a shit, you're sadly mistaken.

I don't expect you to give a shit about what I do -- but since you seem overly concerned about what other people do, I'm sure it rankles that people are actually using it and enjoying it. You can bluster all you want and make assertions about how it's crippled or how I'm adapting to Apple -- but at the end of the day, that's your opinion. That is' convenient and works for me, well, that's my opinion.

One of us has a reality distortion field going on here, but it's not who you seem to think it is. Like I said, you sound like RMS, and I think he's a screeching ideologue.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Your.Master]

"If there is a mouse/keyboard" is the wrong pivot.

If the user is using the mouse/keyboard to access the "start menu" is a better one. I think the usage people will converge on has 3 input devices, but if you use touch, you can give a touch-friendly UI.

That means bifurcating the UI, yes. Because one input device has vastly different advantages and limitations than the others which requires a different form of UI.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[FreelanceWizard]

Actually, as the people who found the first RT jailbreak noticed, the only thing keeping Windows RT from running ARM compiled applications (which you can create in Visual Studio, even!) is a policy that mandates that only Microsoft-signed executables can run outside of the WinRT environment. If Microsoft removed that restriction by changing a single registry key, all of that compatibility would suddenly appear. In fact, .NET apps distributed in PE form and compiled for Any CPU would be able to run without being recompiled at all.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Microsoft charges about $10 for Windows RT. They can't price the hardware like the Kindle Fire because they aren't making money on media sales. Amazon is happy to break even, and lose after fully loading the cost because they aren't aiming to make money on the devices themselves.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Vanderhoth]

Actually what they did was worse than not listen. The knew what people were requesting, but twisted it around violating the spirit of the request. In other words, they purposely snubbed their user base. They may as well have just hired a team of professional door-to-door salesmen to go around slapping everyone who uses Windows 8 in the face.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow, I don't think a 5 year old would need Photoshop.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Microsoft has been very back and forth on multi-architecture their whole history as a company.

On the one hand their core product Microsoft BASIC ran on a huge number of systems.
Then they immediate turned around and got into operating systems for IBM.
They then worked with Western Digital and Intel to open that platform up creating a multivendor hardware platform.
At the same time they did terrific work on OS/2 to help keep it closed.
Then they stabbed OS/2 on the back and went with extending DOS to create Windows instead.
Then they took Windows and ported it to other processors.

Internet explorer used to have excellent cross platform support.
Then it became a center piece of Windows lock in.
Now it is standards compliant but doesn't run on other systems.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and no. You _can_ find netbook class (or near netbook class) machines for slightly over ~200 with a little effort. In fact I just purchased a clearance i3 (V5 11" machine) from acer for $259, sitting right next to it was a AMD based netbook for $209. I was going to get the AMD until I looked up the benchmark/power scores and discovered that the i3 only lost about 15% battery life over the AMD, and was literally 4x the performance. Both of them came with windows8 but installing opensuse on the i3 was a dream. It was pretty shocking how well everything worked, in fact I would say it works better in opensuse than windows by a pretty large margin. And frankly, i'm not sure why people are bitching about acer, it seems as good as anything else I've used in the past few years. About the only thing I don't like about it is the gimped EFI bios (but even that can be hacked, google acer bios hack).

But you just hit the nail on the head, for some reason the windows machines flirt with the sub $200 category but intel or ms are always throwing a monkey wrench into it. My atom based netbook cost me $180 from fry's a couple years ago (wasn't even a clearance deal) but damn if it wasn't hard to repeat that deal. The cromebooks prove that the manufactures can make inexpensive machines, but someone is greedy in the wintel world.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

That's not blinders. That's leadership. That's what Apple does. They call the plays the ecosystem goes along. The reason their are such objections is Windows customers aren't used to Microsoft calling plays.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

The hacker functionality is you can flip a switch to get root, and then install Linux.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

When did Apple do full compatibility between ARM and x86?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Except MacOS has no real value as a platform. It is an obscure also ran.

Apple's computer division pulls something in the 85-91% of all x86 desktop sales profits per year every year for going on 6 years running. The obscure also ran is vastly more profitable than the main contender for home/small business. Where Microsoft's platform has most of its value is it sells server solutions like SharePoint, SQL Server.... to mid business and enterprise.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

I think you are a bit too ambitious about what kids can do. I taught my daughter Logo at 6-7 and that was mentally a stretch. She couldn't have possibly have understood how a computer operates.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

PowerPC -> x86. So they had a lot more power to do the emulation, but the problem is similar. Windows NT did it as well, x86 -> Alpha.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[theskipper]

This is what I did with my recently purchased Samsung Chromebook:

1) Put in dev mode, very simple
2) Plug in a high quality 8 or 16GB SDHC card
3) Open crosh in a Chrome tab, and open a bash shell within that
4) Install crouton (XFCE) onto the memory card. Boot (it's simply chrooted).
5) Use Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Backspace to switch between the two OS's

I may have left out a minor step or two but it's a fully functional portable dev environment for under $200. Runs smoothly and has great battery life. The only caveat is getting certain packages compiled under the arm architecture, I had some hiccups along the way. But building major packages like postgres were fine.

Bottom line is that I wasn't expecting much and really only bought it as a lark, and only for its intended use as a browser-based OS. But because it's so lightweight and functional, I'm using it more and more each day for actual work. YMMV.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

That only works so long as you stay inside the walled garden and only do the things that Apple wants you to do. The moment you add one home movie into the mix it becomes a total mess.

Huh? I can add a home movie to an iOS device quite literally by drag and drop. Move it to that device in iTunes, done.

I can even edit home movies to a limited extent using Apple's formats: http://www.apple.com/apps/imovie/

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Most grannies aren't adept at converting things.

That's fine. iMovie is adapt at guessing formats and converting. It works quite well.

In other words, you are adapting all of your content to the limitations that Apple has imposed rather than the Apple product being good enough to deal with whatever you happen to have around.

Apple sells a general purpose product, OSX. That one does fine with thousands of formats.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Short of ogg-vorbis (which is a file format I've known exactly one person who gave a shit about), I have yet to encounter a file format not supported in iTunes. And for all I know it supports ogg-vorbis, but since I don't own or want anything in that format, I don't give a damn.

You can resolve that example too: http://www.xiph.org/quicktime/

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

That's not the same problem. First off Power apps didn't run on x86 they ran on an emulator called Rosetta. What they offered was a recompile solution, which is mostly the same thing Microsoft offers. The Rosetta approach wouldn't work because in both cases the CPU they were moving to was faster or of similar speed. ARM is much slower and much less capable than x86.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[gl4ss]

Microsoft charges about $10 for Windows RT. They can't price the hardware like the Kindle Fire because they aren't making money on media sales. Amazon is happy to break even, and lose after fully loading the cost because they aren't aiming to make money on the devices themselves.

ten bucks here or there, no big difference, even with tax added on that ten bucks it doesn't make 300+ dollars addition to the price.

but you're wrong. they would be happy, very happy, to give it for free if they could get manufacturers to use it(there's all kinds of kickback deals going on with ms).

simply because windows RT is 100% about the software sales cut.. that's why there's no "confusing legacy win ce desktop".

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[kevingolding2001]

Microsoft wouldn't know the meaning of sexy marketing even if they did it themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImyK29QLs_A#t=1m21s

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

A lot of people might not care about speed for their application - it rather depends on what it does. I'm sure huge bloated things like Office would suffer, but that wouldn't be a problem because MS would presumably recompile Office.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Exactly. The issue is hardware prices not Microsoft's cut. Microsoft would have to buy the units in bulk themselves, endure the cost of sales and give away the OS to get down to the Fire's costs.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

They already have an RT version of Office. 15-100x slower is a lot. Unless they are running Windows 3.1 apps the ARM is going to be an unpleasant experience.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

Yes, but they didn't even allow "native" apps like .NET, java, etc. It's clear this was a marketing decision, and one that (so far) has not played out well.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[innocent_white_lamb]

Several years ago, my brother gave his little girl, who was about 3 years old at the time, an old Apple II computer that she could bang on so she wouldn't touch his machines.

My mother was there one day when the little girl was banging on that old computer. She said, "What are you doing?" and the little girl replied, "I'm hacking code, just like daddy!"

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[marcosdumay]

I made mayself the same question when I first read the headline. But Acer does probably have some kind of contract with MS (like everybody else) that prohibits them from selling Linux computers. That means that they can only sell useless OSes, and the people that need more will replace them with something more powerfull.

(And yes, altought Android and ChromeOS aren't completely useless, they don't have many uses. Their native software stack sucks - except for social networks, games, drawing, and media consuming. That may change in the future, as there is nothing exactly wrong with the base OS, but it's the current situation.)

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[marcosdumay]

The reason their are such objections is Windows customers aren't used to Microsoft calling plays.

The reason there are such objections is that the 10% mindless people that just follow somebody else were already buing Apple*, and Microsoft got only those people that had a personal oppinion as clients.

Superficialy, that looks like their customers aren't "used" to them leading. Indeed, if they had positioned differently from the start, nobody would be complaining, but that is because everybody that is complaining now wouldn't have evern been their customers.

* Please, don't create a straw-men with the reciprocate of that. You know logics, right?

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[marcosdumay]

Or the KDE strategy. Looks like everybody decided that this is the right way to do it, except for Apple (two completely different systems) and Microsoft (one interface to rule them all).

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

They have native apps. There is .NET for RT. You just compile from Visual Studio into RT mode. As for Java remember the lawsuit... Microsoft can't do anything. That's totally up to Oracle.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Nimey]

Bring it on!

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Apple was down to 3% for some of that time. Apple's been gaining while Microsoft was getting more flexible. So... that doesn't seem to be the case about a fixed group of mindless people.

Moreover, when Microsoft was growing strongly they often called the plays. A few examples..
-- the shift towards 386 with little focus on the 286 technologies was Microsoft call a play.
-- use of cheap cards (ISA and later EISA) vs. the more expensive Micro-channel was Microsoft calling a play.
-- the switch towards integration of Office Suites rather than the components being individual and best of breed was Microsoft calling a play.

etc...

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

That's not what I mean. Is there a technical reason that a pure-.NET app that works fine on Windows 7 cannot run on ARM? No, the distinction is one of marketing. Their position seems to be that Windows for ARM is separate and distinct, and at the moment limited to consumer toys.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Art3x]

For reasons most of us don't understand (myself included) the Chromebook is apparently selling like hot cakes, with some manufacturers finding they sell more Chromebooks than all their Windows laptops put together.

And if you think that doesn't make sense, you're in good company, but you only have to look at sales of a device of an even more crippled laptop*, one that doesn't even have a keyboard and requires use only of applications (themselves even more stripped down than normal) that the manufacturer approves of, that costs more than many regular, full sized, full spec'd, laptops, to understand that the market doesn't always produce winners that nerds like you and me see as obvious.

* Four letters, first is lowercase. Rhymes with "Sad".

Because you're taking the wrong measurements. Chromebooks outspec an expensive Windows laptop, if you measure the right things.

So what if you laptop has a faster processor and more memory, if it throws it all away computing a bloated operating system and waiting on a slow-spinning hard drive? You're measuring the wrong thing. Measure boot time.

So what if your laptop runs more applications, if many of them are dupes of each other or are ones that most people wouldn't use anything. You're couting the wrong thing. Count real-world things that you get done.

So what if your screen is bigger if it goes black after three hours away from the wall? You're looking at the wrong thing. Look at freedom to take your laptop out for a day.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[mrprogrammerman]

Microsoft's competitive advantage has been backwards compatibility. They've put so much effort to make sure old apps run on newer versions of Windows. Throwing that away puts them on an even footing with the competitors.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

What do you mean by "pure" .NET? Mostly it is a pretty simply recompile if you are avoiding x86 dependencies. As for the technical reason the recompile is required the assembly languages aren't remotely similar between ARM and x86. ARM would have to run an x86 emulator. ARM couldn't run an x86 emulator, because of speed. That's the technical reason.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

What do you mean by "pure" .NET?

I mean a project done in, say, Visual Studio that has no compiled portions - all the code is .NET. Unless you specifically package your project for RT, Metro, or whatever it is called now, it will not run. So if I buy an RT, I'm starting from the ground up on my software collection. At that point, why exactly would I purchase an RT when there are Android and Apple tablets with a huge software library and support community?

ARM couldn't run an x86 emulator, because of speed. That's the technical reason.

It would run, just at 15-year-old computer speeds. DOS Box works on my Kindle and has just enough oomph to play Masters of Orion, which is a game from the mid 90s IIRC. There are many, many applications that don't need any more speed than that. If they were clever about it - like they were with that Alpha x86 emulator on NT that I linked to a few posts back, they wouldn't even need to emulate everything. And even if the speed were poor on the current generation of ARM chips, the 64 bit line is right around the corner.

I don't personally have much in the way of legacy apps that I need to run, and maybe I'm normal and that's why MS marketing made the decision that they did. But I've definitely heard people grumble about how corporate un-friendly it is.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

I'm not sure you understand what .NET is. There is nothing in Visual Studio every that doesn't need to be compiled. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Overview_of_the_Common_Language_Infrastructure.svg
In particular if you want to see what parts of the runtime are there: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windowsphone/develop/jj207212(v=vs.105).aspx

And of course it needs to be packaged for Metro. Win8RT doesn't have the Win32 libraries that desktop mode applications depend on. As for you starting from the ground up, as an end user. Yes this is about developers who can easily port (i.e. very much like what Apple offered in your analogy).

I don't personally have much in the way of legacy apps that I need to run, and maybe I'm normal and that's why MS marketing made the decision that they did. But I've definitely heard people grumble about how corporate un-friendly it is

Windows 8 isn't really about business. Microsoft spent the last decade on corporate. They are focusing now on home / small business. And that market doesn't have much in terms of 15 year old software they need to run. Today's brand new WinRT machines using an emulator are substantially slower than an old WinXP box. It just isn't worth it.

As for ARM eventually being fast enough. Maybe by 2017 or so it would be fast enough to run 2001 applications Windows XP application. OK assume that's true. Then in theory if Microsoft so chooses they can toss an emulator on and run Windows XP in some sort of virtual mode on Windows10RT or whatever. That's an easy enough feature to add. But I don't really see the point. I have a Surface Pro. I have the speed to run desktop applications and they still kinda suck. The point of a touch screen laptop is to be able to use the touchscreen. If I wanted a keyboard / mouse application I'd be running it on a more traditional laptop.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[bhcompy]

What came first, the iPhone or the App Store? Android or the Android Market? If you don't sell any devices to access your market, you aren't going to make any money.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

The App store. The App store existed for iPod.

As for media, that's not Microsoft's strategy. They don't want to create a "give away the razor make money on the blades" world for hardware since in such a world operating systems are likely to be cheap. Arguably that model is what they did to x86 in the 00s and it is what they trying to pull x86 away from.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

There is nothing in Visual Studio every that doesn't need to be compiled.

I meant old-fashioned compiled into assembly, as opposed to the platform neutral bytecode magic that .NET and JAVA use.

But I don't really see the point.

Market differentiation, that's all. They sorely need it, because right now RT offers nothing compelling over and above their competitors. If they could run regular Windows programs - even slowly - it would give them a bullet point that their competition could not match.

I have the speed to run desktop applications and they still kinda suck.

Agreed, but at least you have the option if you needed it.

Part of it is one of branding and expectations... the RT in all of the ads has a keyboard either attached or prominently featured. At that point it looks just like a Windows laptop, and it comes from MS, but it can't run Windows! But the $600 version (which is of course not ARM) does run Windows. To the naive consumer, it looks like a ploy to get me to buy the expensive version, since ARM vs ATOM seems like the old Intel vs AMD.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Patch86]

Well, "everybody" excluding (as you say) Apple, Microsoft, (and as you didn't say) Android, Blackberry, Jolla, Samsung/Tizen, Firefox...

It isn't a huge surprise that the big beasts of the Linux DE world might be on the same page. And since you mention it; the thought of a KDE phone is unbelievably appealing.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

I meant old-fashioned compiled into assembly, as opposed to the platform neutral bytecode magic that .NET and JAVA use.

OK well then, Windows RT does not need its apps compiled (in the compiled into assembly sense) either. It uses platform neutral bytecode just like Windows 7 .NET.

Market differentiation, that's all. They sorely need it, because right now RT offers nothing compelling over and above their competitors. If they could run regular Windows programs - even slowly - it would give them a bullet point that their competition could not match.

It will run Windows Metro programs which the competitors don't have. Right now there aren't many of those. But simultaneously Microsoft is nudging the x86 market towards creating these types of programs. They are also doing a lot for Windows Phone which is forcing the creation of those applications. But they don't want legacy Win32 as their differentiator. The differentiator for Microsoft is ubiquitous computing, the ability to run the same applications on your phone through your laptop with versatile hardware up to desktops. They want Win32 dead because it can't handle ubiquitous anymore than iOS or OSX applications can.

Part of it is one of branding and expectations... the RT in all of the ads has a keyboard either attached or prominently featured. At that point it looks just like a Windows laptop, and it comes from MS, but it can't run Windows! But the $600 version (which is of course not ARM) does run Windows. To the naive consumer, it looks like a ploy to get me to buy the expensive version, since ARM vs ATOM seems like the old Intel vs AMD.

Microsoft has to do a lot to reset expectations. And their communication has been very muddled. For example with Windows 8 (non-RT) it would have been far better if they talked about Desktop as a "legacy interface" to make it clear that desktop was not the core. It would have been far better if touchscreen was mandatory and Windows 7 was still the OS you got on non-touch laptops. And Windows-RT was a terrible name. Metro-LBL (long battery life) would have been far better:

a) making it clear these were metro only devices
b) making the big advantage clear

As an aside on Surface Pro the better versions are closer to $1k.

People are not used to having to read Microsoft because unlike Apple it has been years since they've shown leadership. Microsoft is showing leadership again. But they still have very mixed tendencies which are confusing.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[lsatenstein]

Microsoft really dropped the ball with RT. That is the problem. They really should have added some PC Compatibility for some legacy systems. Sure you don't need to go back to windows 95 apps. But being able to run any .NET applications may have made it useful.

===
The world is afraid of closed source, and with companies that share your private information with the government. So, its time to drop windows products in favor of open source. It could be linux or android linux version

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a veterand developer (ASM, C, C++, Kernel drivers, Windows, Linux). I got an ARM Chromebook almost a year ago and I LOVE IT! I have been running Arch ARM on it for nearly the entire time I have had it. Best 249 bucks you can spend on a piece of technology; IMHO.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[MightyYar]

OK well then, Windows RT does not need its apps compiled (in the compiled into assembly sense) either. It uses platform neutral bytecode just like Windows 7 .NET.

Yes, I understand that. But I can't take a .NET application that works on my Windows 7 box and just run it on RT - that's the frustrating thing. There's no technical reason for that - it's just marketing.

But simultaneously Microsoft is nudging the x86 market towards creating these types of programs.

I'm not a marketer, but this seems doomed to fail. Metro is a horrid interface on a desktop, so it is awfully hard to convince people to target that with their desktop apps. It's not even a straightforward "port", in general the interface would need to be completely redesigned.

They want Win32 dead because it can't handle ubiquitous anymore than iOS or OSX applications can.

To my above point, I agree that Win32 sucks on tablets. Win32 has been available on tablets since the 90s, and it never took off. With that said, Metro is currently just as horrid on the desktop as iOS would be. Perhaps they can stick with it until it isn't, but I would think the mouse/touch disconnect would be a showstopper.

By the way, you are one of the more civil, functional people that I've conversed with here on Slashdot.

It would have been far better if touchscreen was mandatory and Windows 7 was still the OS you got on non-touch laptops.

Agreed. I was so happy with Windows 7 that I jumped immediately on Windows 8 and was in shock for a while. Not enough to delete it, but my jaw still hangs at the decisions made by such a traditionally conservative company. It's almost like someone told them to be bold, but they don't really know how to do that yet.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[bingoUV]

Yup, the bully getting his way is no surprise. An underdog (trying to) ordering people around is always funny.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[jbolden]

Well OK, but GP was arguing that Microsoft never did this sort of thing before.

Re:From the ashes into the fire?

[Divebus]

I would think that someone with such a low UID and [assumed] broad experience would have a little more insight, especially the "no one uses Macs for business". There are a lot of businesses that would chuckle about that, starting with one of the world's most profitable and valuable businesses (on and off).

You can add to that practically everyone in the entertainment media creation field, especially in LA. Forrester says almost half of enterprises with 1,000 or more employees are issuing Macs. Macs are the default choice of many Silicon Valley startups and larger companies like Google. Some CTOs even make fun of the last Windows holdouts for using a "typewriter".

I work for a giant media conglomerate which four years ago forbade Macs from entering the IT system, but after a great deal of upheaval from the top, IT has been told to shut up and deploy Macs, now present as some 30% of new machines. The greatest "ecosystem" Microsoft has are the IT admins who don't know of or won't examine anything else. Those days are ending.

The Mac is not "an obscure also ran" since more than half of new Mac users come from other platforms... well, one in particular. It's more of a refuge for the many millions of people who are sick to death of Windows. Just having Macs in my workplace side by side with Windows machines is driving many users to ditch their home PCs in favor of Macs (some of them Hackintoshes). None of them would even consider a Linux machine. The Mac is now what Linux wants to be.

Microsoft had become quite lazy under Ballmer. Anything a competitor did, Microsoft would release a half baked lookalike that generally really sucked in a number of ways. Microsoft's belief is that they would automatically prevail because the competition (usually Apple in this context) was an obscure also ran. After having their asses handed to them over and over, they're finally getting it.

The best thing I can say about Microsoft's foray into the tablet and advanced phone world is they're the only ones not blatantly copying Apple. That's turning out to be a mistake but I don't think they could have won if they had copied Apple. The tide has turned against Microsoft and once the legacy has worn off, they're done unless they come up with something totally new that nobody can live without.

Bullshit

[rodrigoandrade]

This is a well known negociation strategy to get better deals from Microsoft. Remember when Dell threatened to go AMD-only?

Acer is a big laptop OEM, especially in emerging markets. What are they going to put in them? A browser OS? Really?

Re:Bullshit

[intermodal]

I've been an Acer user for two generations of laptops at this point, and in each case, I bought it to run Linux. I know I'd certainly have liked to not pay the Microsoft Tax on 'em.

That said, why do you have such a problem with a "browser OS" as you call it? If there's one thing I noticed when I went back to school a while back to finish a degree, it's that most students could certainly have gotten by with nothing but this so-called "browser OS".

Re:Bullshit

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Given that (in terms of vendor margins, and thus price elasticity under hardball negotiations) MS licenses are probably the most flexible component that goes into a Wintel box (with Intel CPUs being the other one), any negotiation strategy that works at scaring MS a bit is probably worth a great deal of money indeed.

HDDs, RAM, passives, OEM assembly sweatshops, plastic mouldings and metal stampings, are already cut to the bone, so being able to tell scary lies to Microsoft is probably worth as much to a PC OEM as amazing expertise in JIT supply chains or other elegant re-engineerings of the actual manufacturing and distribution process.

Re:Bullshit

[xgerrit]

This is a well known negociation strategy to get better deals from Microsoft. Remember when Dell threatened to go AMD-only? Acer is a big laptop OEM, especially in emerging markets. What are they going to put in them? A browser OS? Really?

This is probably a troll, but I'll play along...

I thought the same thing until I checked Amazon and Best Buy. Search either one for Chromebooks and you'll turn up a bunch of products with thousands of reviews. This one's even listed as a #1 Best-Seller among laptops. Go ahead and do the same for Windows RT. It's okay, I'll wait here.

Now I'm not endorsing Chromebooks. I didn't even realize they were still available because I'm sure as hell not buying one... but that's two major retailers that have tons of models (including ones from Acer) that seems to be doing ok.

So I guess their "negotiation strategy" is going to be really really effective, because it also happens to be true.

Re:Bullshit

[GauteL]

The article says "fewer Microsoft products", not "no Microsoft products". Windows PC/Laptop manufacturing is incredibly competitive and consequently profit margins are razor thin. Acer has decided to narrow their line up to increase their Windows product profitability. At the same time, they've decided they can get a bigger slice of the ChromeBook market.

This sounds a little less sexy than the headline.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

He obviously has a problem with OSs that don't run the apps he needs. So does anyone who needs to actually get work done on a computer.

most students could certainly have gotten by with nothing but this so-called "browser OS".

Ah, yes, because such hallmarks of computer tools for productivity and advanced learning, such as Pinterest, Facebook, Soundcloud, and Twitter all work fine on ChromeOS.

Re:Bullshit

[intermodal]

That's certainly consistent with the level of what most of my classmates seemed to be getting done.

Re:Bullshit

[Clsid]

A lot of students can actually get by without even buying a computer even if you are studying computer science, since there is always the lab.

Re:Bullshit

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Oh, I don't doubt that they are, in fact, expanding their Chromebook and Android production, if only because industry sales trends don't show any alternative on their part. My point was just that any strategy that successfully scares Microsoft is one of the most valuable supply-chain innovations you can realistically implement in your production of Wintel hardware: Microsoft and Intel are really the only companies with fat left to cut on the list of suppliers and assemblers for your average x86 box.

Re:Bullshit

[rev0lt]

With Android, you'd still pay the Microsoft Tax - and probably they have a higher profit margin on it (because, you know, patents dont require developments and lots of other stuff that costs money).

Re:Bullshit

[rev0lt]

What scary lies? Microsoft would probably make more money out of an Android laptop than a Windows one... There are a ton of OEMs paying patents on Android, and they cost zero to Microsoft.

Re:Bullshit

[tlhIngan]

Given that (in terms of vendor margins, and thus price elasticity under hardball negotiations) MS licenses are probably the most flexible component that goes into a Wintel box (with Intel CPUs being the other one), any negotiation strategy that works at scaring MS a bit is probably worth a great deal of money indeed.

Don't forget the crapware business - the Windows license is basically paid for by Symantec, McAfee, etc., when the OEM preloads that stuff on the PCs they sell.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

This one's even listed as a #1 Best-Seller [amazon.com] among laptops.

I can't help but feel that it is because Chromebooks and Apples are the only ones that can get away with selling the same SKU for a year or more. I'd say this points more to their trendiness than to their utility. But hey, a sale is a sale...

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

I got my Arm Chromebook almost a year ago. Loaded Arch Linux with Xfce4 almost as soon as I got it and have ever looked back. If I need to access a Winderz box, I use Remmina. Best 249 dollars you can spend on a piece of tech. Oh, I guess it comes with a Chrome OS; haven't booted into Chrome OS in a VERY long time.

Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody ever got fired for buying Android.

Windows Titanic

[Anonymous Coward]

We're all waiting for Windows Titanic, that one big unsinkable ship that rides the waves of the internet!

Re: Windows Titanic

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that the RT actually stands for "Real Titanic" ?

Re: Windows Titanic

[game kid]

I always thought "Ridiculous Tragedy" myself.

Re: Windows Titanic

[Anonymous Coward]

I just picture that big ape Ballmer throwing his Rotten Turds at his customers.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[jellomizer]

And most of the industry. Don't forget about say 85% of the people who use Desktops and Laptops.

acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[weeb0]

Maybe the problem is not the OS, but the hardware itself. I bought 1 mainboard and 1 modem, I had a lot of problem with their products. The same with our laptop where I work, always having compatibility and hardware problems. Maybe people understand and never buy a second acer product ?

Re:acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[Errol backfiring]

Yup. I learned the hard way as well. Had an Aspire One, which came with BIOS problems built-in. Countless BIOS upgrades later, the problems (hanging machine) are still not fixed and Acer has given up any interest, so there is a guarantee it will never be fixed. I will never buy anything from Acer again.

Re:acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[somersault]

Sounds more like the CPU is overheating

Re:acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[weeb0]

In my experience, an overheating cpu will shutdown the machine. 2 of my toshiba behave like this. The solution is to remove the shitty thermal paste they uses and put a better one :-) but, it is inexpensive to try it.

Re:acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[somersault]

The first desktop I bought with my own money used to just hang I think, often working for up to 30 minutes before having issues. Me and my dad spent a week or two trying to diagnose it, checking IRQs, updating drivers and the BIOS, reinstalling Windows, etc. Applying new thermal paste sorted it out.

Re:acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[Spottywot]

Tried to get information about a BIOS update for an Acer desktop from customer support a few years ago. No-one at Acer UK knew anything about it, at one point I was put through to a guy in the parts dept. who supposedly knew more than the front line guys, but he couldn't help either. In desperation I tried to contact Acer US customer support who seemed promising at first but then refused to help because I wasn't an American. Needless to say I won't be buying an off the shelf desktop ever again, and certainly no Acer-branded anything.

Re:acer build inexpensive low quality tech ..

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had hangs and shutdown with my Acer Aspire One. Fixed it forever by replacing the thermal paste (by one by Arctic Silver), heatpipe and fan (in that order) (visibly, the fan was running fine before; seems there still was something wrong with it). Now have no problems (so far for a year).

Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[xgerrit]

One of Microsoft's biggest fears from the late 90s was that the web browser would become more important than Windows and instead of just being an application, it would become the platform. If only Microsoft had been nimble enough to change their strategy in the past 15 to 20 years...

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[alen]

they did try, but failed with IE6
then google and firefox came along with extensions

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[alen]

the Windows and Office guys were printing all the money and killed anything that endangered their revenue stream. now that the money flow is ending they are probably panicking. old story.

google does something similar with their ad business bringing in all the cash and has some risk. apple's rule is that every product they sell has to make a profit at the cash register.

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[Gilmoure]

Apple also doesn't mind cannibalizing sales of another product line (iPhines vs iPods) as they'd rather lose sales to themselves than a competitor. Sounds like MicroSoft's corporate culture precludes this strategy.

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[Patch86]

IE6 seemed more like an attempt to knee-cap other browsers, rather than an attempt to do anything genuinely revolutionary with the browser itself (and I really don't count ActiveX as revolutionary, either in intent or execution...).

It was the Mozilla continuity (through Netscape and Firefox) which really seemed to attempt to extend the browser beyond simple document viewing. While Chrome came much later, Google helped at the other end of the system by providing all the various cloud- and web-based applications to run it with.

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[Bert64]

They succeeded in delaying it for several years with IE6, and totally stagnating the web in the process... There was a good few years when nothing changed because IE6 had such a stranglehold over the market.

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[jbolden]

Yes and they did three things:

a) They built a damn good web browser, the best out there (i.e. 4.0 and 4.5).
b) They built windows only components into that web browsers and thus started moving the web towards a windows only solution
c) They then crippled the web and slowed it down for years.
d) During that time they developed a huge range of high end enterprise products that tie people to windows based on rich clients.

That was a rather successful strategy. The downside was that it left a hole in home / small business. So now they are adapting once again.

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple products almost always follow a linear progression: each product lives in a hierarchy that the price typically reflects. For everyone that wants an iPhone, but can't afford one currently, they might get an iPod Touch. They will still have iPhone envy though, and Apple relies on this and it's drooling fanbase to perpetuate the RDF.

Most other companies will have slight variations in models, which leads to more consumer indecision in which model is the best to buy, and thus competing companies will eat each other's sales in similarly priced products.

Re:Maybe Microsoft just needs more time

[Gilmoure]

I was thinking of the original iPod line. That's been subsumed by the iPhone/iPod touch line. Same for iBooks by mac airs.

Kaboom!

[wjcofkc]

Every time I read a story about the failure of win8\RT I am greeted by an involuntary image in my mind of Balmer piloting the Hindenburg, and the disaster that followed. It amazes me that he is still in charge.

Re:Kaboom!

[MightyMartian]

Oh the humanity!

Re:Kaboom!

[Noughmad]

Oh the developers!

Re:Kaboom!

[Sockatume]

The Hindenberg didn't have any fore warning. I prefer to picture the captain of the Titanic responding to the impending iceberg by having the helmsman maintain his course, then asking the engine room for ramming speed.

Re:Kaboom!

[wjcofkc]

Well, I did say it was involuntary, but I will meditate on the Titanic analogy. To be honest, since I don't use any kind of Windows Whatever OS or MS anything, I would just assume purge my mind of the whole mess. Time to go listen to some Tibetan Bowls on my MacBook, or maybe my Slackware box, or my Android...

Re:Kaboom!

[WizardFusion]

Actually, if the captain had maintained course, and not turned, they would have survived.

Re:Kaboom!

[Gilmoure]

Oh the Hugh Manatee!!

Re:Kaboom!

[RazzleFrog]

Windows 8 and Win RT are two very different things. Windows 8 will likely take off with the changes in 8.1. Once you get passed the odd tile layout and go back to the regular desktop it is a brilliant OS. I hate using XP or 7 now.

RT was just a non-starter with its inherent limitations.

Re:Kaboom!

[gnasher719]

The Hindenberg didn't have any fore warning.

Werner Heisenberg: German theoretical physicist.
Paul von Hindenburg: German president from 1925 to 1934.

Never heard of Hindenberg.

Re:Kaboom!

[Anonymous Coward]

Barbara Manatee's brother?

Re:Kaboom!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you put the slash between win8 and RT backwards? It should be win8/RT

Re:Kaboom!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually (aside from ramming speed) that's the correct response to an impending iceberg collision in a ship like the Titanic.

The bow is the strongest part of the hull (basicly an axe-head), and the segmented bilge would have allowed the ship to retain buoyancy with a destroyed bow. In modern ships which also include that design feature the standard procedure for minimizing collision damage is to point your bow into the obstruction and reverse engines (to reduce impact speed as much as possible).

The real problem was that the captain didn't know that as other ships of the time did not have the segmented bilge so conventional wisdom was that running head on into an iceberg will sink you so you may as well try to avoid it even if it's futile.

Re:Kaboom!

[Anonymous Coward]

Which one? The Hindenburg or Ballmer?

Re:Kaboom!

[MightyMartian]

Does it matter? They're both large bags of explosive gas.

Re:Kaboom!

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding! He ain't no Bill Gates; that is for sure.

Re:Kaboom!

[Anonymous Coward]

What is better in Win 8 over Win 7?
Serious question, I'd like to know.

Re:Kaboom!

[hazydave]

I note the resemblance, but don't Manatees have enough problems these days!

Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[tuppe666]

So they are pulling out of one pointless OS (WinRT) and focus an another even more pointless OS (ChromeBook).

When will they ever learn?

The reason why they are focussing on the chromebook is because its selling. In fact its the fastest growing part of an otherwise lackluster PC Market. The fact that it loosens Microsoft Grip on them is a massive bonus.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[xgerrit]

The reason why they are focussing on the chromebook is because its selling. In fact its the fastest growing part of an otherwise lackluster PC Market.

Average people aren't buying Chromebooks, they're buying "that $199 email laptop." And the fact that it's the "fastest growing part of the PC market" is a very nice way of saying that customers aren't willing to spend $500 on a laptop anymore.. they're replacing their old computers with the cheapest thing they can find.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

The point is to the average consumer, that $199 laptop is now powerful and simple enough for their needs.

Microsoft violated rule number one with any computer product: NEVER EVER replace simplicity with complexity. Windows 8 (RT, Pro, et. al) are an attempt to simplify by making things more complex and changing the paradigm. They're doomed to failure.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Karzz1]

I dropped several hundred dollars on a new laptop for my wife about a year ago. Her uses: YouTube, FaceBook, web mail.

A chromebook might have been a much smarter investment for her, as she doesn't use half the functionality her laptop offers. Also, even though her laptop is orders of magnitude more powerful than the first servers I worked on, it *still* takes several minutes to cold-boot Windows. In fact, she recently got an Android phone and has pretty much forgotten about her laptop, using the phone for her online consumption instead.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard from a few different sources that education institutions are picking up on the Chromebooks too. With little marketing going into them, it would seem their usefulness and price points are hitting the mark. A rebirth of the NetPC it would seem.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, and this is relevant how? The fact is... people are buying Chromebooks, no matter how you'd like to label them.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Back when Ellison was pushing for the Network Computer( NetPC) over 10 years ago it was a desktop appliance and WinTel was able to counter it with cheap hardware and discounted licensing and marketing programs which effectively killed it. Today, the Chromebook hits the laptop space but Microsoft and Intel aren't so close any more and Microsoft is unable to provide a compelling software package to compete as they scramble to figure out if they are a Windows phone company, a table company, a touch screen desktop company or an online office software company.

This could be another iPhone moment when they miss the chance to nip it or maybe an Internet moment when they turn the ship. But turning the ship today means missing lots of other opportunities they have in the cross hairs.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Gilmoure]

Just talked with wife (my wife; I have one too!) about updating her 2006 laptop. She said shed be fine with a tablet that can play her Facebook games and print stuff. I think I'm getting a new bike and a tablet this weekend!

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[tapspace]

The fact that it loosens Microsoft Grip on them is a massive bonus.

I would not call giving market share to the grand spying corporation a bonus in any sense of the word.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

XKCD

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[Anonymous Coward]

"[...] an attempt to simplify by making things more complex [...]"

*boggles* what?

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[jbolden]

Microsoft was willing to keep moving down market in the 1990s and early 2000s to fight being disrupted. At this point they are willing to lose the bottom 1/3rd to help lock in the remainder of the home/small business market with a compelling product. They could easily build $200 windows laptops. But they can't build $200 touch screen and keyboard windows laptops.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[marcosdumay]

the grand spying corporation

And you are talking about wich grand spying corportation? Google, MS, Apple...

Anyway, Google has no grip on Accer, so that's a bonus to them.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[lordofthechia]

I think I'm getting a new bike and a tablet this weekend!

Wow, those Windows RT promotions are getting out of hand...

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[jamie_love]

I think the Chromebook fills a nice niche. Most of what most of us do most of the time can be done with a Chromebook, and as an extra computer, it can be pretty handy. It does the best job of any OS of implementing shared use, with privacy for all users (assuming you are already in the Google ecosystem), and compared to any other operating system I use, it doesn't require much attention. I think Chrome OS could be improved in a few areas, without much trouble, and even on the low end, sold on computers with just a big more pop at the CPU and memory level. I can seen why schools like these. It has to be the easiest thing to support, by far, of all of the OSs.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[tapspace]

One of these things is not like the others.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[marcosdumay]

Differences abound. Between the few similarities are the facts that all of them are giant corporations that are spying on us.

Re:Chromebook a success; Microsoft Not.

[tapspace]

None like google.

In a related note....

[8127972]

....Microsoft employees were spotted moving chairs out of CEO Steve Ballmer's office.

Re:In a related note....

[Tamran]

That would be like throwing chairs on the deck of the Titanic!

Re:In a related note....

[Gilmoure]

*golf clap*

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[somersault]

Nonsense! All of those users are just installing ChromeOS as soon as they get the machines home. And switching to Emacs instead of Word.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[fisted]

Those all qualify as grandmas.

microsoft knows it...

[MickyTheIdiot]

I believe the recent move that makes Office accessible to Android (even if it is a cloud version and a wrapper) is very significant.

The Microsoft crew knows that Android will at least be a major contender for OS share and maybe even beat them. I think they are starting to get ready for a world where Windows isn't the automatic choice by the corporate zombie crowd and it will be just as viable to give your non-power users an Android-based desktop. They are smart enough to know that the possibility for that is there.

Give the graphic designers a mac. Give the business power users a Windows 7 PC. Give your secretary an Android Desktop. Give a geeky workers that need raw power a Linux box. Well get closer to giving everyone the correct tool for the correct job.

Re:microsoft knows it...

[Anonymous Coward]

The days are really gone where the best choice for a graphics designer is a mac. For many of the app choices the better versions are on windows or if you are looking to go cheap then Linux is a better choice. regardless Mac is an acceptable choice for graphic design but no longer the best.

Re:microsoft knows it...

[Bert64]

MS exist because of lock-in, if we ever reach a situation where the lock-in is sufficiently broken that it's viable to use something other than windows then noone will use windows at all.

Re:microsoft knows it...

[NuttyBee]

I think you may be right on this one. I use my Windows machines for everyday work, Quicken, etc, My e-mail is on a Linux VM somewhere, and my tablet is a brand new Nexus 7 2nd Ed. I must say, I really like the Nexus too. It really does everything I need in a form factor that is hard to beat and at $229!

Not a lot of margin for MS in a $229 device where the OS is free..

Re:microsoft knows it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft's volume licensing, combined with the neurotic it manager trying to balance a budget and avoid being thrown out the door, will prevent that from happening. The era of the corporate zombie choosing Windows isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[TheP4st]

Why are you giving them free press.

Because in difference from the far too frequent slashvertisments this actually is news for nerds, stuff that matters..

Won't save you Acer

[AdmV0rl0n]

All I've seen in general is that Acer make average and poor PC equipment, knocked out generally at below market prices as their model, and with at best average support.
To be fair I've over generalising somewhat - but what I laid out applies to too much of the Acer family.

Moving to Chrome and Android will be a simpler model. The problem is that its a full on race to the bottom. Your value as Acer is null. Its in the OS. And beyond that, unless you are on the winning edge hardware wise and winning at review level, you'll face the full on might of Samsung and Google and Apple, and they will out device you anyway.

Just box shifting the edge, and on cost is heading to a level where only the huge vendors left standing will be left, and where the Soc costs leaves only enough margin for those vendors anyway.

Unless you are that vendor, you will be where you are in PC land in only months.

The only place in tech for smaller outfits is one of excellence and boutique level stuff. Acer needs to become something other than yet another box shifter, or its dead.

They should seek out being an alienware or Origin level vendor where their is a price premium and an extra service - but the problem is this is Acer.

Re:Won't save you Acer

[Anonymous Coward]

Acer isn't just low price. It is great value (or at least can be; I don't know about their entire product line). It is the value that won me over.

Typing this on a 2+ yr. old $199 Acer Aspire A0722 AMD C-50 netbook. It is a great little machine. I wish I didn't have to pay the Microsoft tax when I purchased it, but it was still a bargain (bought it at Target; if I had used a Target card, it would have been $190).

After upgrading to 8G of ram and swapping to an Atheros wifi module, total cost for a highly portable box that runs 100% free software (no binary blobs needed), the highest resolution 11.6" display available on any netbook, a keyboard designed for an adult man's hands, and runs all day on battery, was right at $250. Best value I've seen.

It would be nice if Acer was more supportive of folks running free software on their hardware, but that criticism goes for pretty much every major manufacturer. I've heard rumors that Dell, Acer, etc. have disallowed warranty claims based on running non-windows OSs. If true, they all suck, but just load windows on the hd before sending in for repair, and can still work around this ridiculous nonsense. Maybe diversifying away from MS will help with this issue as well as the MS tax for Acer products making them even more attractive.

Re:Won't save you Acer

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used a number of machines from diffrent manufactures. Acer quality doesn't really seem any diffrent to me than dell/hp/etc.

In fact I just purchased an acer i3, 11" V5 not to long ago for personal use. Installed opensuse on it. The whole thing is a dream, so I suspect like many things, the "quality" of their products is heavily dependent on which product line and how your using it.

I would say aside from the stupid BIOS (which besides being EFI, is missing 99% of the options one would expect in a BIOS) its a pretty good piece of hardware. Better than most of the crap you find at retail. Of course I only paid about 60% of list for the V5 (putting it under $300) so in that regard it totally wins.

I suspect that if acer shipped opensuse with a decently polished android emulator (for the apps) on a machine like the one I just purchased for $200 they would eat up market share like crazy. Maybe use the atom if they are concerned about battery life. The laptop form factor (bigger screen, keyboard, local storage, and a CPU that can actually render modern web pages) is much more convenient for people actually doing more than light browsing/simple games. Its not going to take on the tablets, but its going to rip the bottom out of windows. Of course this is the argument for the chromebooks, but I would bet that if given the choice between a chromebook and a similarly priced/sized laptop running a real OS people would go for the laptop.

Acer sucks.

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason your windows machine's aren't selling is because you make piss-poor products Acer.

Re:Acer sucks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hairyfeet, I thought we talked about this "Anonymous Coward" thing.

PC gaming

[tepples]

Is everybody who develops PC games, develops mods for PC games, or even just plays PC games also a grandparent?

Re:PC gaming

[fisted]

yes.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[jones_supa]

Why are you giving them free press. Except couple grandmas nobody is using Windows. Much better choices are available.

Shut up. Every news article is "free press" for someone if you look it that way. Windows is a big thing in IT world so it's good to hear about it too.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[NatasRevol]

Emacs??!?!?!?!?

LaTex is the bees knees!

Gateway

[Frankie70]

I have never owned an Acer branded product but have owned a Gateway laptop from Acer. 2 Keys broke in the 2nd month - wasn't covered by warranty. The charger slot slipped into the case after 6 months. Repair was covered by warranty but it was a patch-up job - they had to stick something to something.14th month, motherboard developed a problem which required motherboard replacement. Since it was out of warranty, I junked it.

Acer Iconia tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

Andoird. Highly recommended Unpaid endorsement.

Yes, that's the Chromebook.

[Anonymous Coward]

Carewolf: "The Chromebook is a failure!"
Tupe: "No, the Chromebook sells quite well"
You: "No, they're not buing a Chromebook, they're buying 'that $199 laptop'"

Which would be the Chromebook right? So they're buying the Chromebook, which means that someone is selling it, right? Which means it's selling, right?

So what, exactly is the point of a tone that indicates that Tupe was wrong?

Or is your complaing "They are buying it wrong!!!!"?

Re:Yes, that's the Chromebook.

[Anonymous Coward]

Your forgetting that Taupe is Google fan boy of the highest order and never misses a chance to troll on Slashdot

Re:Yes, that's the Chromebook.

[Anonymous Coward]

Most would bay a microsoft notebook for $199 and less if on cleance.

Re:Yes, that's the Chromebook.

[Anonymous Coward]

Carewolf: "The Chromebook is a failure!"
Tupe: "No, the Chromebook sells quite well"
You: "No, they're not buing a Chromebook, they're buying 'that $199 laptop'"

Which would be the Chromebook right? So they're buying the Chromebook, which means that someone is selling it, right? Which means it's selling, right?

So what, exactly is the point of a tone that indicates that Tupe was wrong?

Or is your complaing "They are buying it wrong!!!!"?

^ This logic is off.
What they mean is that *something else* will later barge into the Market with a non-Chromebook product at or under this same $199 pricepoint and steal all the glory. We'll see that the love the Chromebook enjoys TODAY isn't based on merits / functionality per se

Re: Yes, that's the Chromebook.

[xgerrit]

The point is Windows isn't being beaten by Chromebooks, as much as it's being beaten by anything that costs less than $200. Afterall, HP TouchPads were flying off the shelves at $100.

Re:Yes, that's the Chromebook.

[marcosdumay]

I can imagine Google would stop to think about that... But, Accer cares about it because?

If somebody starts to want another cheap OS, Accer will simply sell computers with "another cheap OS".

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

My brother the non-nerd who would be in love with his roku if it had a browser and is actively looking for a replacement that does. He is the kind of guy that buys a chromebook and since I just recently saw a display of them at walmart he probably will have one sometime in the next couple months. All he does on his current PC is a little online shoping, weather, addicting games, pandora, or facebook.

Bad news for Microsoft ...

[gstoddart]

For the last 20+ years, companies have made hardware for whatever Microsoft was making, because it was the gravy train.

Now all of a sudden they're realizing they're footing the bill to make products focused around Microsoft stuff, and that isn't always working for them if the stuff Microsoft is making nobody is interested in. In fact, it has become a liability in some instances.

The manufacturers have more options these days, and if the Microsoft products aren't selling, they can make more money by focusing on the Android and other stuff.

So Microsoft really needs to pay attention, and learn that they need to better understand what it is people want and why -- because there is increasingly not as much certainty that a MS product will sell, and if you're sitting on your laurels collecting revenue from OS and Office upgrades, you will get overtaken.

Their tablets aren't doing stellar, their phones aren't nearly as popular, nobody seems to like Windows 8, and they've pissed off everybody with the XBone -- and while they may be entrenched in corporate environments and likely to stay there, at the consumer level, they seem to be foundering.

Re:Bad news for Microsoft ...

[NotBorg]

Wait... They make phones?

Acer hmm...

[__aaqvdr516]

I don't think anyone will really feel the effects of a few less underspec'd machines being on the market. Anyone who could have bought an Acer can still get their underspec'd machine from HP, Lenovo, or any other number of manufacturers.

Maybe Surface RT Sucks

[tuppe666]

The reason your windows machine's aren't selling is because you make piss-poor products Acer.

When Microsoft crapped all over its OEM Partners(sic), by releasing a device its reference model..and like you have just done announced how rubbish its OEM partners are. Microsoft Spent a billion on Advertising making less in revenue for its sale...and its X86 Twin the Surface Pro, had to devalue its inventory by $900million.

Perhaps a better strategy would have been to treat its partners...as just that partners instead of Victims especially considering OEM now have choices...clearly something Acer is willing to take advantage of.

Collapsing Market

[tuppe666]

I don't think anyone will really feel the effects of a few less underspec'd machines being on the market. Anyone who could have bought an Acer can still get their underspec'd machine from HP, Lenovo, or any other number of manufacturers.

Your right they won't, but its not because others will make up a shortfall. Its because the PC market has been shrinking for 5 quarters now with no end in sight.

interesting timing

[RedHackTea]

I just bought an Acer chromebook for my parents. Everything works well, and I have no complaints about the Acer hardware so far... except for the Wifi card -- or it could be the software. It won't work with our wireless router's WPA2, so I had to switch to WEP... which we all know is pretty much no security...

Re:interesting timing

[Anonymous Coward]

ummmm, you have an OS/machine completely dependent on the web and your "only" complaint is about the wifi connectivity? kinda like buying a car and saying it is absolutely perfect but sometimes the wheels fall off.

Re:interesting timing

[Lumpy]

The problem is with your Wifi router firmware. Upgrade it and it goes away. a LOT of low end routers freak out when they get a wireless complex connection request packet and WPA2 is enabled.

"fastest growing"

[MachineShedFred]

Yeah, when you go from 0.1% to 0.3% of market share, that's 300% growth, which far outstrips everyone else. Ask Microsoft how they feel about being the "fastest growing part" of the smartphone business since Windows Phone 8 also shares that particular title.

Note: I am not disparaging ChromeOS or Chromebook with this post, I'm only pointing out how useless the term "fastest growing" is when applied to a platform that has been on the market for like 18 days (sarcasm).

Re:"fastest growing"

[Patch86]

You aren't wrong, but you are being disingenuous if you're claiming that Acer's strategic management made that mistake when deciding to focus on Chromebook/Android sales over Windows.

Presumably they're smart enough to do the maths and make an informed decision as to which way to steer their billion-dollar corporate giant. And presumably they think that the way their Chromebooks are selling, there is more untapped demand for Chromebooks than yet more Windows devices.

Excellent!

[pecosdave]

I love my Acer netbook, and I know they quit making them due to pressure from Microsoft. If they start making normal Netbooks again I'll be a happy camper.

Re:Excellent!

[Anonymous Coward]

The netbooks are mostly running XP. Which, incidentally, MS is dropping support for. I think most of the nerdy folk are way overrating tablets and pads. The Chromebook fills a need now and in the next few years for a small, light, portable computer that you can actually work on, especially when traveling.
   

Re:Excellent!

[Lumpy]

Only for people that dont do anything. I travel on the plane twice a month and I carry an 18" laptop. I want to know what these people think they are "getting done" on these tiny 13" ultrabooks and netbooks...

Re:Excellent!

[kbrannen]

What we're doing with those "tiny netbooks" is carrying around a couple of dozen reference books, many PDFs, a bundle of Word docs, my trusty Onenote notebooks, and an environment where I can try experiments of what I'm reading about (I am a programmer). I can read whatever I want, make notes from it, do reviews, and type up needed docs in Word ... then sync up back to wherever when I get to a network. Because I can install normal Windows software, I'm basically able to do everything you do on your large 18" laptop, or at least everything that doesn't require huge screens.

I wouldn't try to create my DB schemas on my netbook (and the software would be horribly slow anyway), but I find the machines easy to carry around and useful. In many ways, the ASUS Transformer would be ideal for the way I use a netbook if only it ran MS-Word and MS-Onenote. There are replacements for Word (and now we have Word for Android as of recently); I'm still waiting on the Onenote replacement that I can use without a network connection. Once that comes, I can wave good-bye to MS and full laptops.

The thing about netbooks (tiny laptops) is that they still allow for content creation, assuming you don't have large hands and fingers. I find that incredibly useful.

Re:Excellent!

[Anonymous Coward]

SSH terminal into my server at home and coding a C program in Vim over screen.
On the road, my 17" Quad-Core AMD laptop from Acer is too bulky and eats too much power to be any sort of useful, but a 13" netbook running Android and the Terminal IDE app with a tether to my phone for on the road net access fits nicely into the saddlebag on my bike. I did try to use one of those little cheap toy Sylvania Syneta7 android laptop thingies for $40, but after six months it stopped booting and just sat at the Sylvania boot splash. Haven't been able to find any kind of support for finding an image to flash on it...or even how to flash. At least for the 6 months it worked, it worked fairly well for what I needed (Long distance remote thin-client)

Re:Excellent!

[pecosdave]

I mostly use mine where most people would use tablets, only I have a keyboard. It fits in my small bike bag. I use it to do social networking, reply to emails, listen to music, watch movies, and even resond on Slashdot while I'm not at home. I don't play many games on it, though I can a few, it runs ZSNES with a paired up PS3 control just fine. It's my screw around machine that leaves my phone available for other things, and I've even done serious work with spreadsheets that's made me money. Fine, a 10" screen isn't exactly the best for real work, but that's not usually what I need it for.

You and I are on the same page here I think. What most of these folks seem to miss is that without XP as someone mentioned, or other Windows to worry about, the form factor is available again. (Mine came with Windows 7 BTW - not that it mattered to me)

Re:From the ashes into the fire? 2nd ARM Foray

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, this is MS's second ARM foray, the first being Windows CE for the "Pocket PC" (PPC) and "Handheld PC" (HPC). The cult of followers is still somewhat active (more or less nostalgically) at http://www.hpcfactor.com/ . CE is still alive today as Windows Embedded Compact (seems to be mostly for vertical market devices/apps such as bar code scanners/POS terminals, etc.) - see:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/features/2013/jun13/06-13EmbeddedCompactGA.aspx

Interestingly, that linked page has a link to another "interesting" announcement: "Microsoft Windows Embedded 8.1 Industry Release Preview now available" ( http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Features/2013/Jun13/06-27WinEmbPreview.aspx ). That seems to indicate an ultimate convergence of their original ARM OS with Win 8 RT, so maybe it will stay alive in that vertical markets niche.

Hmm - wonder if I could retrofit Win Embedded 8.1 for my old HP Jornada 728 HPC - those wonky tiles could work on its 640x240 touch screen ;-}

YMMV

What killed the NetPC ..

[dgharmon]

"Back when Ellison was pushing for the Network Computer( NetPC) over 10 years ago it was a desktop appliance and WinTel was able to counter it with cheap hardware and discounted licensing and marketing programs which effectively killed it"

Intel was pushing the NetPC and it was Microsoft that acted to kill it ..
--

"do you have a list of issues on this topic? we have a conference call with them (intel) re NetPC today at 9, and pending your response we can bring them up or try to stave off a little, but the latter isn't really a good choice - we're running out of time, as everyone is painfully aware. .. yup, it would be crazy to Intel define this .. the only urgent issue I can think of is defining how it boots, if we let Intel do this in a proprietary way we're screwed .. Note the flag below on the NetPC. we need to get cranking on this. I know it is difficult to do a spec until the sw work is crisply defined but having Intel draft this spec and take it to the industry will cause up more headaches in the long run if we don't get out in front." link

NC Attack Plan-"The NC is Dead"

"Halt the NC from making any noise in FY98. Though the NC has failed to live up to its early threat of mass PC replacement, we are actively tracking threatened accounts and monitoring and attacking the NC constituents (IBM, Sun, Oracle) with high level TCO and Windows messages. We are executing on a PR plan to expose the NC as "dead""

Re:From the ashes into the fire? 2nd ARM Foray

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

True, true, I was thinking about NT-derivatives and succumbed to tunnel vision.

It'll be interesting to see if MS keeps CE around, since there will always be something on 'low end hardware' no matter how high the low end gets to be, or whether they'll eventually ditch CE in favor of some compact-but-NT-kernel-based embedded flavor for consistency's sake.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[jedidiah]

> My brother the non-nerd who would be in love with his roku if it had a browser and is actively looking for a replacement that does.

A $200 ION nettop with a wireless keyboard/mouse combo sounds like just the thing.

I'm not sure that I would want to use a web browser with the kind of inputs that come with a Roku.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[aaarrrgggh]

Only for about 15 minutes, at least based on my experience with my smart tv's browser. ...but then again, in Sweden they still use TeleText, so a lot of people don't need much.

More like the Titanic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though they saw the iceberg, they (like MS) couldn't change direction fast enough to avoid the collision.

They (also like MS) never believed they could sink... Laughed at the idea (again, like MS laughing at Linux)

Until the water was coming over the lower decks. It took them a fair amount of time to decide that the ship COULD sink.

Lets not forget, these people paid money...

[AmazingRuss]

...for the Packard Bell brand.

Dear Acer....

[Lumpy]

At least dont be Dusche-Bags and LOCK the bootloader/Bios. Give us linux dweebs a way to blow out the Chrome OS and install linux on it easily without a 20 second "ZOMG UR BookIZ Compromised!" warning on the screen...

Good ridance

[Anonymous Coward]

Having recently bought laptops form Levono and Acer all I can say is good riddance. My ACER laptop is buggy, has too much bloatware and had to be returned for a bad disk drive and LCD. The Levono was cheaper, had slightly less bloatware and is rock solid. Just the physical feel of the two computers is markedly different the ACER feels cheap and fragile while the Levono is light and tight. The only really advantage of the ACER is that it claims to have a removable battery - however this is actually not true the battery cannot be removed after it is installed - WTF? Very poor design - but the random reboots are entertaining to watch.

Why not GNU/Linux proper?

[ikhider]

I have seen many cheap laptops on on-line that run GNU/Linux natively for a hundred dollars or less. Admittedly they look like toy laptops, so the chromebooks seem overpriced for what you are getting. I suppose the Chromebook is targetted to those who think themselves not technologically sophisticated. I bought my first computer in 1996 (IBM Thinkpad, running Windows 3.11) and second one in 2006 (HP Running windows XP). The latter got infected fast enough. Initially, all I wanted was something to browse the web, listen to music/watch movies, and do word processing. When the machine got a virus, my high school aged brother installed Ubuntu. This was how I got into doing other things like audio editing, learning the command line, graphic design, business applications and more--all through opensource technology. Previously I thought this not possible because I could not afford the software and cracked ones were too unreliable. GNU/Linux opened the possibilities for me. So I am a bit concerned when people who consider themselves unsophisticated deliberately get a device that is so limited. More options should be availble should the user learn to want more from her machines...

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Emacs has a LaTeX mode... actually Emacs Is my preferred way to edit latex code.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he has been looking some stuff like the neo and rikomagic and a wireless keyboard.

Re:Stop writing about Windows

[Patch86]

Why bother installing ChromeOS if you're going to install Emacs? You only need one OS on a laptop!

Guess they should've said something to Microsoft..

[NitzJaaron]

...before they made that douchy Acer Iconia W3 vs. iPad Mini commercial. ;)

Re:From the ashes into the fire? 2nd ARM Foray

[Anonymous Coward]

The big win of CE isn't the lower end hardware. CE isn't really a whole lot lower end than Windows RT these days. You really want a multicore processor and 1 GB+ of RAM for the latest versions of CE. The big draw of CE (for those limited niches where it appeals) is that it is real time, which is very hard to achieve under NT.

Acer has crap service

[Anonymous Coward]

And crap products. I hope they go fucking bankrupt.