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The Death of the American Drive-in
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Claire Suddath writes in Businessweek that the number of drive-ins in America has dwindled from over 4,000 in the 1960s to about 360 today. Since Hollywood distributors are expected to stop producing movies in traditional 35 millimeter film by the end of this year and switch entirely to digital, America's last remaining drive-ins — the majority of which are still family-owned and seasonally operated — could soon be gone. 'We have challenges that other movie theaters don't,' says John Vincent, president of United Drive-In Theater Owners Association and the owner of Wellfleet Drive-In in Cape Cod, Mass. 'We have fewer screens and can only show one or two movies a night. Now we have to spend tens of thousands of dollars just to stay in business.' According to Vincent, only 150 drive-ins have converted to digital so far — the other 210 have until the end of the year either to get with the program or go out of business. It may seem silly to fret over the fate of 210 movie theaters whose business model is outdated, even compared with regular movie theaters, but Honda Motor Co. is offering help with a program called 'Project Drive-In.' The car company is planning to give away five digital projectors by the end of the year. Winners will be determined by voting from the public, which can be done online through Sept. 9 at ProjectDriveIn.com. 'Cars and drive-in theaters go hand in hand,' says Alicia Jones, manager of Honda & Acura social marketing, 'and it's our mission to save this slice of Americana that holds such nostalgia for many of us.'"
http://projectdrivein.com/
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Wait, it's a Drive-In, not a Drive-Through? Well, that explains
why I heard all those thuds when I drove through.
'Cars and drive-in theaters go hand in hand,'
Someone give her a coconut.
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
were a blast, much more of a social event or rather gathering and just plain fun.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
Perhaps the requirements for displaying a bright image 100 feet away outdoors is higher than your pocket alarm clock LED projector?
c++;
What size of cinema are you running with your projector?
Oh no... it's the future.
In what world do you live where your cheapo home projector is the equivalent to that required in a drive-in?
I do believe I picked up a brand new digital projector not too many years ago, and the charge from the online retailer was about 30 quid.
So why do they say tens of thousands?
When a Slashdotter thinks everyone else couldn't possibly have missed something, does it ever occur to him or her that "hey maybe I am asking a stupid question and should Google this for 10 seconds first?" It doesn't seem to.
You might as well ask why a Lamborghini cost is six figures since you bought a CitroÃn C1 last week for less than ten thousand.
A good consumer level digital projector has to be able to project an image covering an area of twenty square feet or so before it becomes so dim that it's unpleasant and will be designed to work with a screen only ten or fifteen feet away. That requires only one or two thousand lumens of output. What you bought for 30 quid probably produces a few hundred lumens.
The digital projector for a theater has to project an image that will cover over a hundred square feet without being so dim that it's unpleasant and the screen is most likely fifty to a hundred feet away depending on the size of the theater. The output needed to do that is on the order of 20,000 lumens and up.
A demographics would be interesting. Haven't been to one in such a long time no idea what groups go to them nowadays.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
Therefore the headline "The Death of the American Drive-In" comes about 50 years too late. It's not "news" anymore, and it hasn't been for as long as I've been alive.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
"You might as well ask why a Lamborghini cost is six figures since you bought a CitroÃfn C1 last week for less than ten thousand."
Well, for a better car analogy is more like asking why a 16-wheeler is more expensive than my C1.
A new drive-in (a mom-n-pop type operation) opened this year in West Michigan, and seems to be doing quite well, and there's a long-standing 4-screen drive-in complex (owned by the local cinema chain) – already converted to digital – about an hour away. Meanwhile there's a popular weekly free-movies-in-the-park program in East Grand Rapids. Watching movies outdoors is still pretty popular, so if they're run properly, offering a social experience that people can't get in the living room or crowded into theater rows, there's no reason drive-ins can't stay in business.
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Poor picture, poor sound, extra traffic headache getting in and out, constant noise and movement from other attendees. The drive-in was never about the film as anything but tinny, poorly reproduced background noise to the party.
At least here in North Texas, there has been a bit of a drive-in revival. Some guy built several of them, and they are really quite nice. So nice, in fact, that any time I want to see a movie, I go to the drive in rather than a regular theater. Their tickets are cheaper, at $6 per person, you always get a double feature (even sometimes one of the movies is garbage), and the snack bar has really good food for the same price you would pay at any other restaurant. Of course, you can bring your own food and drink as well.
Any drive ins that are struggling are likely mismanaged. They need to look at what the successful ones are doing and mimic them. So long as there aren't competing theaters in smaller towns, they should do just fine.
I grew up in the days when drive-ins were much more popular than they are today, and I always thought that watching a movie in your car was stupid and pointless, not mention uncomfortable.
The only thing a drive-in was ever good for was allowing you to pretend that you're going to a movie when you really just want to get a handjob from your girlfriend.
Maybe 15 years ago I went to a drive-in with my grandparents (I was a kid at the time). Their town (a small rural town) had the only drive in theater I had ever seen and I wanted to see what it was like. The picture was terrible and the sound sucked. The experience really wasn't worth repeating.
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The drive in here is insanly popular and has been for years. It's mainly high school students and has been for years. The age group attending never changed.
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My kids are grown up now, but when they were very young is was a great way for us to see a movie without having to get a baby sitter. Next time you hear a child act up in a theater, think to yourself, gee I wish those parents could take their kid to a drive in.
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Heavy Metal back in 1981 or 1982 when it first came out, back then the war on drugs was not intensified by Ronald Reagan and sneaking a 6 pack of beer and smoking a little weed at the drive-in was no big deal about half the people at the drive-in was doing it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Metal_(film)
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How the hel would we watch a movie through all the rain?
That and Ofcom was slow to adopt a counterpart to the US's Part 15 rules that allow the theater operator broadcast a movie's sound over micropower FM radio. Only in December 2006 were even personal FM transmitters legalized.
Of course, if your drive-in is one of the tiny handful in the country which didn't convert to FM radio for their audio, then that's a problem
That depends on which country. The UK, for instance, didn't legalize personal FM transmitters until the end of 2006.
Well, obviously you're paying for all those extra wheels.
The local theatre in our town shows first run movies for about $3 a ticket. (Or about $8/person if you add popcorn and a drink.). Earlier this year we (and everyone else who has a family) chipped in a hundred bucks or so to a $70k kick starter campaign to switch two projectors over to digital. Mission accomplishes -
My wife and I are 34 and we typically go with friends around the same age. We have a modern drive in that was opened just a few years ago and it is packed every weekend. The demographic mix tends to be pretty young, mostly young families but also plenty of teens. The thing to do is take a nice comfortable chair and sit outside under the Summer sky. Last weekend we went and watched the thunderstorms roll in as we watched the movie. The quality of the picture isn't quite as nice but its good enough. The food is yummy too. I can't see ours going out of business but I know some in smaller towns may be impacted by the change. I hope most of them make the leap and keep this format alive.
Part of the problem is that they're seasonal in a lot of parts of the country. Who wants to go to a drive-in in the North in the middle of winter? It also occurs to me that cars aren't as convenient for this as they used to be - larger cars, low bench seats up front so you could get several kids up there, plus the people in the back could see over better, more convertibles, etc.
At the same time, I'd love to see them become more popular again in places with a lot of seasonal visitors, etc. Why? Because people can talk to each other as much as they *(@@# want in their cars.
In the 1970's, there was a drive-in in my town in Rhode Island - the same family owned that, a cinema in what had been a USO club (now gone), and another (single screen) in what had been an actual theater. No first-run movies - but you could go for a $1 to $1.50 depending on the night. The drive-in closed well ahead of the two theaters. Then again, the town still had two soda-fountain drugstores in the mid-70's, so it had a certain "time capsule" feel to it.
As a side note, whenever I hear about drive-ins, I always think about this O. Winston Link photograph: http://www.linkmuseum.org/images/collex/NW-1103.jpg
(I'll also put a plug in to visit the Link Museum if you're ever near Roanoke, VA - it, and the Virginia Museum of Transportation - are great)
this isnt of course something new, as all theaters have experienced marked decreases in attendance. the problem with driveins is they couldnt compare to indoor theater projection quality and audio quality and so were quickly usurped. indoor theater owners in turn sat high on their horses raking in ticket and concession sales while theaters rotted. Todays theater, either outdoor or indoor, cannot compare with the average home theater. plush couches or dedicated recliner seating, audio systems that meet or exceed the quality of any commercial theater, clean floors and a quiet livingroom environment to enjoy the movie without patrons giggling or screaming or talking on cellphones. you can even pause to take a slash. You also dont have to sit through 25 minutes of coca cola commercials before even getting to the previews. That crap can roll by on mute while you're making popcorn or slipping into pajamas.
TFA was likely penned by a nostalgic baby boomer. the kind that force nat king cole over the PA systems of every major retailer in november and cant for the life of them figure out the self check-out lanes at the grocery store. Theaters, any theaters but broadway and live show, are for all intents and purposes completely dead. This is an excellent occasion as well. Outdoor theater meant piping FM or AM broadcast audio into your car from a 5-10 watt transciever at the concession stand. if you couldnt pick up the signal, you were relegated to a 2 pound metal box on a pole you listened to while watching the movie. Indoor theater conversely meant ridiculous ticket prices, disgusting food, filthy seating and the ever ubiquitous sticky floors of which on no occasion could you expect your complaints to be taken seriously.
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Around here the demographics are everyone that wants to see a movie without driving an hour
I would love to see the demographics of folks who still go to drive-in theaters.
And if the demographic is baby-boomers or older, then drive-ins are doomed because those folks are going to just die.
Hipsters? When the fad of retro-whatever-they-do wears off, that market will dry up.
I had a lot of fun going to the drive-in theater (2 screens, double headers on both) in Abilene, Texas, when I went to college there. That was in the 2002-2006 year range, I'm 29 now; hardly close to pushing up daisies. There's also a multi-screen complex about 30 minutes south of Dallas that I went to some years ago; I want to take my kids, maybe make it a group thing, when the kids get a little older.
Drive-ins are fun experiences, and I think some places let you pay "per car", it can be cheaper for larger groups. You can bring a pick-nick basket of food and save a ton of money.
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I worked at a drive-in theater as a teenager. Drive ins aren't the only ones having trouble, a few weeks ago the local paper had a story about a theater in a small town that may have to close if they can't raise the money. If I remember correctly, if this particular theater closes, people in that town would have to drive 40 miles to see a movie. I'm sure they're not the only one.
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fwiw.. a "hundred square feet" is merely a 10 foot by 10 foot area. theater screens are many dozens times bigger than that and even more so for drive-in screen.
I do believe I picked up a brand new digital projector not too many years ago, and the charge from the online retailer was about 30 quid.
So why do they say tens of thousands?
First of all, there's the significant issue of the massive amount of power and performance that's required from a theatre-class professional projector, rather than the comparatively tiny distance-throw, dimness, and short lifespan of a home or office HD projector. Quality, as a few have pointed out here, is a big factor. Also, to be that bright, these don't use LEDs of course: they use very hot bulbs that need to be cooled down with very loud and large fans and cooling systems.
Secondly, we're not just talking about the projectors themselves. Most of the major film distributors will not longer be providing films on actual 35mm film, which is what the drive-ins have been using. The major distributors have been reducing the number of "films" that are actually released on film; for some, the move to digital cinema is arguably more about the distribution methods than the viewer's experience. DCP (Digital Cinema Package) [wikipedia] —boiled down to MPEG-4 on an encrypted harddrive — is how the films are being sent to theatres. What do you need in order in the industry to run the required DCP drives? You need a server that will decrypt, store, queue, and run everything: trailers, all the films for the week, your preshow, etc.
The end result is having to buy a very expensive, closet-sized projector and computer server that your projectionists need to be trained on how to use and you can't fix yourself.
As someone who works for a non-profit film cinématheque, this is a very big deal and worry for independent cinema, who, without access to DCP projectors, are increasingly relying on having to present theatre-class events from a Blu-ray burned in the distributor's office.
See here for more info about the market changes from 35mm to DCP in this reposted press release [isuppli.com].
Retro will never die! It will always be, well... retro.
While I sort of share in the nostalgia for drive-ins (I first saw Star Wars at a drive in!), they seem very anachronistic, relying on cars, large amounts of real estate used really inefficiently, etc.
It makes me wonder, why is there no other innovation in the world of movie theaters? Incorporating good restaurant food, bars, better seating, etc? I can think of one theater with a bar and better food.
My fiancee and I used to go to the drive-in that was half way between her house and mine when we were in high school. I have almost no memory of any of the movies we went to see.
I would love to see the demographics of folks who still go to drive-in theaters.
And if the demographic is baby-boomers or older, then drive-ins are doomed because those folks are going to just die.
Hipsters? When the fad of retro-whatever-they-do wears off, that market will dry up.
It probably depends on the area. I usually take my daughter and her friends to 2 or 3 drive in movies per season. Where I'm at it's a pretty good mix. Mostly families, but also some groups of teenagers too. The one thing I've noticed is that everyone I've spoken to at the drive-in tends to be very happy and friendly. I think it's more about being there than anything. The sound from a car stereo and/or a window speaker is not that great, and neither is the picture. But it seems to be fun for everyone.
If your drive-in has 2K, maybe upgradeable to 4k projectors, then 8K comes out in a few years...what a difference to having 40 odd years of 35mm projectors!
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I do believe I picked up a brand new digital projector not too many years ago, and the charge from the online retailer was about 30 quid.
So why do they say tens of thousands?
Your 30 quid projector can display 300GB JPEG2000 files at 4096 x 1260 video at 24 frames per second with 12 bits each of red, green, and blue per pixel, and 16 channels of uncompressed audio at 24 bits and 48 kHz or 96 kHz sampling? Please let me know where you got it. I'd like to order one myself.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Sounds nice. Our drive in had tickets the same price as the local theater.
And you obviously don't have kids. Before the age of between five and eight depending on the child, you can't take them to theaters, but Mom and Dad still want to see first run movies.
Take the family mover, some snacks, and load up to the drive-in. The alternative tends to be taking the inevitably screaming child to a theater (I bet you love that) or losing your sanity as a shut in.
Me? I dig the drive-in. I just wish there was one closer than 30 miles away. The local one, as the article stated, closed down rather than bear the enormous expense to upgrade.
In Denmark we have Zulu sommerbio [http://zulu.dk/zulu-sommerbio] that has been quite popular, but often been not worth attending due to weather. To me the american way, having drive-in movies, is really one piece of culture that was unique.
Hollywood's ditching of 35mm film distribution in favour of digital projection is going to put a lot of movie theatres out of business, not just Drive-ins. Of course, the real killer is the "home theatre". Today's high def TVs and the easy availability of content (Netflix, torrents, etc), topped with super high prices for snacks and candy is what is really taking chunks out of the cinema business.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
The reason no one goes to them today is because cars have long been unsuitable for, ahem, romance. Not to mention either a bunch of friends, or a couple of kids along. Nobody can move in a modern car. In a pre 1970's car, you could put the seat back - a long bench - and have plenty of room. Now you have two "bucket" seats, and a plastic console and stick-shift in between. The back seat's no better, with it's two indentations, and seat-belt buckles sticking up. Let's face it, cars aren't comfortable enough to sit and watch a movie in, let alone anything else.
Light output is just one part. The other part is the fact that to play DCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package) delivered content the projector needs to establish secure (encrypted) communications between itself and the server actually playing back the media. I mean, what good is a secure playback system if you can just grab the decrypted content on it's way to the projector? This shit gets really expensive. And scary when it goes awry. Keys get generated so X film can play on Y server connected to Z projector between these hours. After sitting in the projection booth during the (attempted) premiere of a major motion picture, watching the director and a couple of producers trying, and failing, to get ahold of the distribution company to have new keys generated because the keys for the premiere had expired, it makes you laugh
saw some family movies with parents when I was about six, and certainly not since I was ten. Never had urge to find or drive to one as teen or young adult, nor did any of my friends, though some might have lingered in Chicago area.
The digital projector for a theater has to project an image that will cover over a hundred square feet without being so dim that it's unpleasant and the screen is most likely fifty to a hundred feet away depending on the size of the theater. The output needed to do that is on the order of 20,000 lumens and up.
Worse, this is a drive-in we're talking about. You just described an ordinary theater. Drive-ins require far more distance between the projector and the image AND a far larger image to boot, given that, by definition of the experience, the "seating" has to be the size of a moderately large parking lot.
You could put 4 of your friends in the trunk of the car and save a tone of money . . .
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My local drive in theatre just went digital. All the other local theatres closed for lack of funds to go digital and then reopened when the local population raised the funds to buy them projectors. I am assuming the same thing happened with the drive in.
I have no problem driving 45 miles to see a movie, especially when it is in a leather reclining seat. Other people didn't like the drive and made sure their local theatre stayed open.
This is not in a hugely populated area, but upstate NY.
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...you should. If you've never been to one there's a certain magic to it. As they say, if you haven't tried it, don't knock it.
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Went to the drive in in San Jose recently. Already has digital projection.
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Our local drive-in recently shut down (it was one of the older ones and had fallen into disrepair). Until then, I always enjoyed going. Sometimes, quality is more than resolution or sound. Going to the drive-in was fun in and of itself. Bring a fresh pizza, some beers, a little grass, and a young woman. You simply can't beat the experience. Especially these days, when so many younger people have never been to one before. I'll miss it.
squeezing from the movie studios. I know they've been trying to get a cut of concessions for years now, and raising rates on movies in general. It probably doesn't help that it's damn near impossible for a small mom and pop to skirt the law and show stuff without paying full pop anymore. I've heard movies shipping on sealed, tracked DRM'd hard disks with their own network adapter that phones home these days.
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Most drive ins are now flee markets
Well, if people are actively trying to get away from them, that'd explain why they're in trouble.
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I would love to see the demographics of folks who still go to drive-in theaters.
My wife and I go to the drive in about four times a year, and I have have say that the people we see there cover pretty much the entire spectrum, though the majority are family groups. The main draws for us are the family atmosphere, the price ($7/ea to see two or even three movies), plus no prohibition on outside food like regular theaters. They also have a great snack bar that's reasonably priced (because they're competing against outside food). We'd go more, but it's a 40 minute drive.
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
at the amount that are STILL open
http://www.driveintheater.com/drivlist.htm
The ones in the Northeast must have a bitch of a time, when I was growing up in southern Maine, there were 4 within 10 miles distance of our house, now the closest one is Saco, glad to see it's still running . In addition to the short season, you had to contend with either small black Midges that really leave a welt, or the garden variety industrial size mozzies that take turns trying to bust in the window if they catch a wiff of your C02. Ahhh the good ol days....
I actually had a date to a drive-in! Late 1970s to the Skyview Drive-in near Santa Cruz, CA. and even did a little making out. But she thought it all was a "conspiracy" because the movies (they showed two back in those days) was "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" and something else. Maybe she thought I was rushing (hey, don't we all young guys do that?) because she had blonde hair and star of that movie the same. oh well, not much happened after that but at least can say for what it's worth I have drive-in experience! I also liked to watch Dolly Parton in those beautiful dresses like what actresses of the 1950s wore.
I've been to Skyview several times, between movies they showed those corny snack bar clips and a very dated film on seriousness of stealing the speakers (these are corded with a durable steel cable that will tear your window if forget to put back on post). The film said every part has a serial #, they are really right. One time buddies and I went to the drive-in (they were showing a Green Hornet movie made from the TV series to cash in on Bruce Lee popularity), we took apart the speaker and sure enough ***every*** part had a unique number. We put it back together. Potentiometers and brackets are not worth much. Also on Saturdays were flea markets, bought me telephone ("Property of Bell System") for five bucks and wired up the phone in my room (disconnected bell so the TPC doesn't detect another phone), and having two phones in the house was really something.
Another drive-in for you all Silicon Valley people was Winchester Drive-ins used to be a Camdem and Hwy 17, huge complex with 5 or 6 screens, large snack bar with the worst hot dogs and junk food. Long gone and recently drove around that area but no remains as completely redone with roads and buildings. The days when the Russians were our enemies and the Iranians our friends.
mfwright@batnet.com
You could put 4 of your friends in the trunk of the car and save a tone of money . . .
A lot of the drive-in's up here in Canada have a lower rate if you bring more than 4 people with you. Usually 30-50% off the ticket price.
Om, nomnomnom...
I go to the one in Abilene, as well. I've also got a minivan with back seats that flip back. Tickets are cheaper than anywhere else and the food is good and cheap. Bonus points because each $8 ticket is for a double feature. We can put the kids to sleep in the back of the van and enjoy the movie. The only downside is bugs.
hey I saw that at the drive-in as well, right in the middle of the CB radio craze. Movie is now considered a documentary on use of Part 95 27MHz LMR systems. Breaker, Breaker!
mfwright@batnet.com
Nothing is forcing a drive-in to show the latest and greatest films. There's 90 years of back catalog to show. Make theme nights.
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The digital projector for a theater has to project an image that will cover over a hundred square feet without being so dim that it's unpleasant and the screen is most likely fifty to a hundred feet away depending on the size of the theater.
Back in the '60ss when I worked at one, the projector had no bulb, it had an arc lamp.
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All that is true and they require even more light because drive-ins don't have the benefit of an enclosed room without ambient light competing with the screen image.
Many drive-ins shot themselves in the foot, splitting their giant screens in half with a huge divider to show two different pairs of films.
People go for the novelty of the car and the supergiant screen, not a car with a much smaller screen.
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What would really make me laugh is them resorting to downloading the movie from thepiratebay ;).
It's interesting to see this. the closest drive in to where I live just completed raising the money to go digital through donation drives. (Harvest Moon Drive In, Gibson City, IL).
There's a lot of the nostalgia factor driving the place, but it's definitely a good time to get a bunch of friends together to go. Set up lawn chairs around the car and kick back. There's usually a good crowd. The weather's the big problem if it rains.
Now they are a quaint throwback. I don't really like going to an expensive movie theater with dirty seats, sticky trashy floors, and stench of fake butter. Going to the drive-in is fun because you can be out in the nice weather (come October) in a lawn chair, and enjoy 2 first run movies for $6 and some cheap decent quality concessions.
I don't think movie distributor licensing allows per car pricing anymore. The drive-in you are thinking of is Galaxy in Ennis $6 for 2 movies, and they don't allow outside food or beverages because they say they make no money off your ticket, only on their concessions. But their concessions are cheap and reasonable quality. I love the place.
boiled down to MPEG-4 on an encrypted harddrive — is how the films are being sent to theatres.
it occurs that if the projectorion changes are so expensive, and so many theatres did not upgrade; perhaps there is a market for a company to receive the MPEG4 hard drives; play the content -- convert it to 35mm, and ship them both back to the theatre....?
They didn't "preselect" the drive-in somewhat near me that I've gone to growing up, instead they selected one ten miles further away as the crow flies, and in the opposite direction.
FC Closer
Your 30 quid projector can display 300GB JPEG2000 files at 4096 x 1260 video at 24 frames per second with 12 bits each of red, green, and blue per pixel, and 16 channels of uncompressed audio at 24 bits and 48 kHz or 96 kHz sampling?
You have to pay two to three times as much, but not 20 times as much for a higher end unit that can do all that.
I dont believe a drive-in needs more than 150dpi on the screen
Please let me know where you got it. I'd like to order one myself.
DealExtreme. Never fails.
As long as they don't call the police when I show them the trunk to get the discount.
Sure, because the cost of converting every single film you show from digital to a 35mm print is probably about the same as the 30 quid you paid for your home projector. Problem solved! Now go work on world peace.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
I dont believe a drive-in needs more than 150dpi on the screen
Well, good news then. A SMALL drive-in screen is only 60 feet by 30 feet, so your 150 dots-per-inch requirement would only necessitate a projector with a resolution of 108,000 by 54,000. How much is that unit?
Of course, dpi is a printer-resolution measurement, so unless you're looking to print out a film at a drive-in, I suppose it's possible that you're just pulling stuff out of your bunghole at this point.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
Movie theaters closing because they can't afford to upgrade? Same thing happened when talkies started coming out. In the silent era all you needed was a dark room and a projector -- maybe a piano player. You could practically set up a movie theater in a big living room (assuming you could afford the projector.) But suddenly you needed an expensive sound system wired into the building. Many local theaters went out of business. There were also a lot of stars that could no longer get work. A big all American looking guy might work out great in the silent era. But when everyone figured out that he had a high squeaky voice and a foreign accent suddenly he just wasn't so popular.
From TFA:
..... Last year, Vincent replaced his five 35 mm projectors—which had been running smoothly since they were installed in 1957—for about $70,000 each........
Ya' wanna bet those 70K digital wonders aren't going to have a service life anything near 56 years? However I have to say the digital is image is hands down superior. I particularly appreciate the steadiness and lack of apparent flicker. I believe in some case the existing xenon arc lighthouse that was in place for the film projectors can be repurposed for the digital unit. I don't know the whole picture (sic) of how the brightness and throw distance compares to a similar film installation.
Anyone near Augusta GA or Columbia SC should check out the big mo. Three screens and apparently going strong!
http://www.thebigmo.com/
Kids activities, good food selection, and double features on each screen. They started talking about the transition years ago, hopefully they will survive.
Well, good news then. A SMALL drive-in screen is only 60 feet by 30 feet, so your 150 dots-per-inch requirement would only necessitate a projector with a resolution of 108,000 by 54,000. How much is that unit?
The DPI as a measure of video dot density for video projection is not a measure of density on the physical screen.
This has to be measured from the position of the viewer, who is not standing directly in front of this 60' x 30' screen -- they are in fact some distance away from it. So this "60' x 30'" screen appears to be much smaller than its actual size --- the farther away the screen is from the viewer, the smaller the screen will appear.
The video DPI or samples per inch, is measured as the density of the dots on the virtual screen directly in front of the viewer, after accounting for the distances, which is a small fraction of the size of the physical screen.
The problem that most drive in have is not the profit they can do a decent busy at night, host flea markets,etc during the day. It is that alot of the older drive in have moved from being outside the city to being in the city.
With that the value of the land has increased to the point that is worth the money for the owner to sell to a business or housing developer.
Perhaps where you live, but around here fewer teens are bothering to get their licenses and the general experience driving is miserable enough to support the decision. I have a license now, but I tend to avoid driving whenever possible, just because it is so miserable.
Sometime I'd love to go to a drive in, just to see what the fuss is about, but realistically, as America shifts away from being a car culture due to the increased misery of driving and the increased cost, the portion of the population that can go, is going to decline somewhat.
That's likely true, and most movie theaters make next to nothing on the actual ticket sales, if you want to support your theater, buy the concesssions or play the games in the arcade, because that's where they make their money.
The switch to digital might make drive-ins MORE VIABLE, rather than less. Movie theatres save money because they can have one or two projectionists managing dozens of screens, dealing with all the broken films and whatnot. Drive-ins can't even have half a dozen screens due to size constraints and limited demand, so one projectionist getting paid for one or two screens is expensive.
But with digital, you don't need to know how to splice film, or change reels quickly. The idiot who scoops the popcorn can hit the button to start playing the movie, and drive-ins might suddenly be cheap enough to become viable again.
And the march of technology is making it cheap and easy for even an amateur to set-up their own theatre. DLP projections are cheap and bright, and Blu-ray discs are 1920x1080, higher resolution than worn-out old films... And with some good old public domain films coming to Blu-ray, the disc costs a couple bucks to pay for a highdef film transfer, and you don't need any license for public performances: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=161511
Hell, it wouldn't even be illegal for you to download a TORRENT of a Blu-ray rip of these public domain movies.
I have no doubt the expense of Hollywood's blessed projectors with DRM up the wazoo is quite expensive, but a lower-cost drive-in with older films, you can practically start your own on an absolute shoestring budget.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
given that the price was 30 quid probably a 30cmx30cm aimed at low resolution enthusiasts..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I like digital clear picture, nice audio setup, etc. I am waiting for those. :P
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
That's because most Americans live in or near a major city. Of course when you get away from the people the driving experience gets less miserable.
"You might as well ask why a Lamborghini cost is six figures since you bought a CitroÃfn C1 last week for less than ten thousand."
Well, for a better car analogy is more like asking why a 16-wheeler is more expensive than my C1.
Isn't it obvious,
Pirates, pirates are making 16-wheelers so expensive.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The reason no one goes to them today is because cars have long been unsuitable for, ahem, romance. Not to mention either a bunch of friends, or a couple of kids along. Nobody can move in a modern car. In a pre 1970's car, you could put the seat back - a long bench - and have plenty of room. Now you have two "bucket" seats, and a plastic console and stick-shift in between.
You had me up until here.
Few people are capable of driving manuals any more... In fact, forget the manual part, few people are capable of driving.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
That wasn't said before, but DCP also negociate a key everytime you need to play the movies, also requiring connection to the authentication server.
Converting DCP content into something else would require the proper licensing from the movie companies. Stripping DRM is a tough business to get license for.
30 quid is less than $50. 20 times that is $1000. Point me to a 4K projector that costs less than $1000. I dare you.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
that what pickup trucks are for. toss an old mattress or couch in the back, and there you go.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
I'm in my mid 30's and I love our local drive-in theaters. Most of them cost about what 2.5 regular tickets would for a family of 4 to watch a double feature, that's 8 tickets worth of entertainment for 2.5 tickets costs. Beyond that at some of them I can pay a couple bucks and bring healthy snacks for the kids and adult beverages for me and the wife (drink 1-3 during the first feature, use the second feature to make sure we're good to drive home). It's also so much more pleasant than watching a movie at the theater because there no idiots talking, no cellphones glaring in your face, etc.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
One of our local drive-ins went through this, so I looked at the numbers last year.
A digital setup is about $60K, for Drive-in scale gear.
When the studios noticed how expensive shipping film was, they realized that they could ship hard drives and achieve the same goals, just with a shift of media (they are not yet thinking telecom distribution yet).
The films cost about $300 to ship, the hard drives about $60. The studios at first just wanted to save $240 per shipment, but the theatre owners cried foul, so they came up with a revenue sharing plan where the studios would buy the projectors, or a good chunk of the cost of a projector system, and the theatres would not keep any of the cost savings until the cost of the projector was paid back. It was creative financing, and a pretty good idea, I think.
This plan was instituted many years ago and was phased out at the end of 2011. The trick for Drive-ins is that they don't usually operate year-round, they have fewer showings, and get fewer films in, so their cost-recoup horizon was much longer. Yet, they knew this was coming and many of them did nothing to deal with it.
What I saw, in Spring of 2012, was a pack of lies from a local Drive-in about how the studios sprung this on them, how they were trying to put the Drive-ins out of business, and how they would go under unless people donated to their business. I know a guy who produces festivals, and he was willing to reduce his fee for the Drive-in and organize a fundraiser for them, as it's a valued community asset, and they metaphorically flipped him off for wanting anything for his time. The Drive-in more than doubled their food prices, driving away additional business (many families used to come for dinner and a movie). People suggested pre-selling discounted ticket packs, to raise capital, and other things, and they just dismissed it all and told people to donate.
Last I heard, they had gotten a bank loan, but it really seemed to me that the fundamental problem was with the way the business was run, not the switch to digital.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I actually have 5 drive-in's near me, although I've only actually been to one of them. They converted to digital a year or two ago, and it's always packed on the weekends. They have BBQ's all set up if you want to bring your own food (and charcoal), and while they do have a concession stand there with a variety of food (hot dogs, pizza, popcorn, etc etc), there is also a nice hot dog place right next to it. When we do go, we stop by the hot dog place, get a bunch of dogs, drinks, and fries first. They never have an issue with you bringing in outside food (except for a couple months a while back, but it was only food from that hot dog place that wasn't allowed, and specifically because the hot dog place refused to turn off their bright lights during movie times... Which was quickly rectified).
The used to (many years ago), allow you to bring your own BBQ grill, but they no longer allow them, likely fire hazards, and people bringing in giant BBQs taking up space and creating enough smoke to cause an issue. I see all kinds of people there ranging all ages and all manner of life (poor, rich, single, married, families, single person). It is a much different experience than seeing a movie in a movie theater, and a lot more fun if you actually want to socialize with people at the movies without worrying about disturbing those around you. Having a nice stereo in your car helps too.
I went to a drive-in a couple years ago. Most of the cars were SUVs or trucks, and half of them parked backwards. They lowered the tailgate (or lifted it depending on the vehicle) and basically had a family tailgate party. A couple of them even had an air mattress in the back, though most of them opted for just blankets and had a picnic while watching the movie.
Back in the good ol' days, younguns used to bring their favorite cheap beer and their horney ladies there. Additionally, it was a "family place" in that they usually had playgrounds with "pre-lawyer" play toys. Things like swing sets (gasp!), those rotating platforms that everyone pitched in powering and a sand lot. We'd empty our shoes out before re-entering the car. Dad used to bring a six pack, some pre-popped pop corn and assorted snacks. We'd be told to lie about our ages to get a discount upon entering. Nowadays,, folks are just "nesting" (read: hermetizing) and not venturing outside their living rooms. Shessh... we'd meet so many interesting people at the drive in. I guess it's all been replaced with Facebook. Too bad.
Also, to be that bright, these don't use LEDs of course: they use very hot bulbs that need to be cooled down with very loud and large fans and cooling systems.
Very hot bulbs? Maybe these days. But the ones I'm familiar with, from a few decadesback, used carbon arcs. Same technology as the WW II antiaircraft spotlights. Incandescent carbon in a pit on the end of a quarter-inch or so carbon rod, being slowly vaporized by electron bombardment. VERY bright. Lots of ultraviolet, too. Plus a little bremstrahlung (thought he voltages are low enough that X-rays aren't all THAT much of an issue).
You BET it needed fans. They also carried off the carbon vapor, as the positive rod vaporized a few inches per reel, along with the nitrogen oxides from heating air that hot and letting it cool.
It's inverse square from the projector to the screen and inverse square back, for a total of inverse fourth power. Increasing the projector-screen distance from a desktop projector to a theater rig to a drive-in, at inverse-fourth-power, means you need a REALLY bright light. A quarter-inch rod with most of the end hotter than the surface of the sun is about right.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I don't think it is "inverse square from the projector to the screen and inverse square back". I think the inverse-square law for light is radiation from a point source, i.e. it describes the drop-off in illumination as the light spreads out, rather than attenuation per se. When you're focusing, you're causing the beam to converge on a particular spot (the screen) which is a different thing.
For those interested in the current state of drive in theatres, Carl Weese had a Kickstarter project (which I backed) to fund a road trip in order to photograph as many of the remaining drive in theatres as possibly before the switch to digital projection. Many theatres were not expected to be able to fund the transition to digital projection.
Some of those photographs were featured on MSN and more are available on his site.
The drive-in near my house just added a third screen, though I haven't been since. I have no real idea of their projection technology, but the last time I looked it used 35mm film. I'm 32yo also and taken my 3 kids but now the twins are toddlers they won't sit for the entire movie. When they were little they just slept. At least the car limited the annoyance of other viewers, even if we don't get to see the entire thing. Before the kids my wife and I used to reverse our station wagon with a mattress in the back. She'd usually fall alseep! Our current car (a Honda CRV) isn't as big and is full of stuff so we can't do that anymore.
When I was a kid I remember seeing a drive-in screen but even then it was disused. That field is now all houses.
A little unfair that the site don't acknowledge drive-ins outside the US!
--
no sig for you. come back one year.
One drive in here, the Boulevard Drive-In, has the 4K digital projectors, and claims to be the first drive in to do so. It is doing great business, with one screen, occasionally running theme nights, and engaging with the community. It is definitely worth checking it out if you are in the area.
There are 2 more drive-ins in the metro (one news report claimed this was the most active drive-in in any major metro today, but I never saw any substantiation for it); the Twin Drive In, which has two screens of course, and is fairly nice and in a remote, peaceful location, and the I-70 Drive-In, has 4 screens, and last time I went there many years ago, was a festering hole. I really want to go back to the Boulevard soon, and I'd like to go to the Twin again sometime, though it can probably use some updating.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Honestly, with so few drive in theaters left. I would be willing to subsidize them (not Federally or through the government). But Hollywood would be smart to say, hey...let's preserve these. There are a few hundred left.
It would cost Hollywood next to nothing to:
a) put a digital project in the few hundred drive ins
b) to allow drive-ins to have movies free
Seriously, most drive-ins basically get three showings a weekend (Fri/Sat/Sun), and have a short season spring through early fall. They also lose showings due to bad weather (rather than gain them as modern theaters).
But they are truly a cultural heritage. The profits from Avenger's alone if put in a trust fund would keep ALL the drive-in theater's operating for centuries.And Hollywood studios should get smart. (A portion of these ticket sales support Drive-In Theaters around the nation.)
In my town, Sacramento, our single drive in theater has 6 screens and play two double features on a nightly basis. They have tuesday specials, and the projector complex sells inexpensive popcorn and sodas. Whenever I pass the theater on the freeway, it's packed with cars. When we go, we'll show up an hour early to get a good viewing spot.
The mode in which these theaters operate may seem outdated, but they still draw massive crowds. On reflection, I can't think of a single time where my viewing was distracted by loud plastic candy wrappers, cellphones, and talking viewers.
Where's my sock? There it is...
My local drive in switched to a digital projector. It's not exactly a big hurdle.
Mosquitos made drive-ins unpleasant the few times I went to them. You couldn't sit inside with the windows rolled up without turning on the air conditioning, or at least the blower to stop the windows from fogging up, and that means running the car, which is impractical for a few reasons. With the windows rolled down the mosquitos ate us alive.
Isn't there some company somewhere that can just create 35mm prints from digital films, for legacy theaters?
Lots could. However, they'd be mired in copyright issues from day one, and if Hollywood can't turn a profit without such issues, it'd be tough going for anyone who tried.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
The demise of the drive-in movie came with the invention of panty-hose and smaller cars. There was a bit of an increase in attendance with the invention of the mini-van and the tilt steering wheel, along with full recliner seats.
But now, the fact that movies can be viewed in the privacy of a bedroom in far better quality than the drive-in is the real reason for the demise. I agree that they could turn into museums, but other for the occasional festival, I think the change bell is dinging away on the second to last reel.
If your only tool is a hammer, you'll approach every problem as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
You and AC above point out one of the big esoteric costs and headaches of the biz and the restrictions upon it. Thanks. My impression it that it's as much protection racket as protection, based on nothing more than glancing into the booth, so to speak.
Several of my friends take part in this: https://www.facebook.com/ratedmformarathon.
If I weren't in New York I would attend every event.
Life. Is. Good.
So I have always wanted to open one. There isn't one in my area for over 100 miles, and when I was growing up there were 10 of them with-in 20 miles. There is an old one that is closed down and has trees growing in the parking area, I would love to buy this one and reopen it, but I don't know who owns the land, or how much they would want for it or how much to offer for it, nor do I know where to start looking for this information. Obviously I don't know the business plan that works for a drive-in and I have never worked at one to build that experience. But for me, I think there is a major business opportunity. Technology can be used to turn this dying industry into a must experience attraction. The time is right, as cars have evolved (incredible sound systems), and everyone wants things to be greener (no AC needed if you are outside), and technology can make things cheaper (bluetooth car receivers, HD projectors, bright LED's, etc.). So can any of my fellow /.'s point me in a helpful direction? "Who moved my cheese?", shouldn't be used to classify an entire sub-market, real business owners should step up and see the vast opportunity in front of them and make the proper moves to get there.
Drink beer at www.carriagetownale.com
Who actually went to a drive-in for the movie? We went there to fuck! They could show non-stop ads, charge admission, and we'd still go.
The vast majority of automatics put the shifter in the center console nowadays, so you still have the same problem even if the car isn't a manual. It's really ridiculous because the transmission in modern cars is electronically controlled so they could easily replace the shifter with a set of buttons or a small lever on the dash. That would get rid of the need for the center console, which has actually been growing in size the past few years and invading the space where I'd normally place my shin/knee.
Incidentally, you could still order a Chevy Impala with front bench ("seating for six") and column shift transmission through the 2013 model year. That went away with the 2014 redesign, and with it the passing of an era as far as I'm aware no other car is available with a front bench seat (trucks excluded).
There's no technical reason why not, but it's unlikely the studios would allow it. Part of the reason for the switch to digital distribution is DRM which they think will reduce the piracy of new films. I seriously doubt it, but that's what they believe.
At the very least, I would think they would make some 35mm prints of films that have been out for a few months to distribute to the second-run theatres so they can hold off upgrading, but then again those theatres probably don't make the MPAA much money so I doubt they care too much about them.
The vast majority of automatics put the shifter in the center console nowadays,
I know, but when you say "stick shift" you're normally talking about manuals.
I haven't seen a column shift in ages, In Australia they went out of fashion in the 80's and everything since has been on the floor.
It's really ridiculous because the transmission in modern cars is electronically controlled so they could easily replace the shifter with a set of buttons or a small lever on the dash.
Easy to do, yes.
Easy, no.
The reason is that most people are used to using the stick (be it auto or manual). Most people even have trouble with flappy paddles (I certainly did, although my first experience with flappy paddles was an F1 simulator).
As a connoisseur of small Japanese sports cars, the shifter is actually smaller.
In a sports car you want the shifter to have shorter throws for more aggressive gear changes so they tend to put smaller gear sticks in there.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Why would I bring four of my friends to a night out with my fiancee?
Living in Los Angeles (near Hollywood), I have gotten the impression that the typical split on a movie ticket is 50% for the distributor/studio and 50% for the theater owner. Blockbuster films with an exceptional draw get a bigger percentage for the studio while films that are second run or have been out for a while give more to the theater. Without a doubt, the profit margins are better on the concessions, but to say the theater makes "next to nothing" on the tickets is a misconception.
She's asking why you wouldn't.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
I don't think it is "inverse square from the projector to the screen and inverse square back". I think the inverse-square law for light is radiation from a point source, i.e. it describes the drop-off in illumination as the light spreads out, rather than attenuation per se.
The inverse square law is related to light spreading out from a point source. If you have an infinite line source you get inverse first-power. For an infinite plane source it doesn't get dimmer at all.
(That's why the hubble expansion of the starfield and the resulting red shift is important: If the stars were all hanging in there rather than receeding, just about any way you looked you'd see the un-red-shifted surface of a star, which would make your black-body temperature about the average solar surface temperature, rather than a compromise between 4 degrees absolute plus the heating from the sun and the radiant tempreature of the Earth's surface, atmosphere and clouds.)
However, a movie projector is a close approximation to a point source located a few inches behind the projection lens aperture. So it's inverse-square going out to produce a given brightness on any patch of screen.
For any given patch of the screen the light coming back is also inverse-square. If the distant screen were the same size as the close one it would be inverse-fourth-power, as I claimed.
However, the screen in a drive-in is a lot larger than the screen in a theater. Any given retina cell gets the light from the same solid angle regardless of the distance to the screen. This goes up with the square of the distance, exactly canceling the inverse square of the light coming back (assuming both screens use coatings with about the same optical scattering properties). So the effective rule is actually inverse-square, not inverse-fourth-power.
(Inverse fourth-power DOES apply to radar, where the target is the same size regardless of distance and thus doesn't do the cancellation of the inverse-square term on the returning echo.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Rising oil prices are ruining the traditional American lifestyle. Americans today have to actually get out of their cars to see a movie. Maybe a few decades from now they will have to eat in restaurants instead of drivethroughs. How tragic.