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Healthcare.gov and the Gulf Between Planning and Reality

An anonymous reader writes in with this excerpt from Shirky.com. "The idea that 'failure is not an option' is a fantasy version of how non-engineers should motivate engineers. That sentiment was invented by a screenwriter, riffing on an after-the-fact observation about Apollo 13; no one said it at the time. (If you ever say it, wash your mouth out with soap. If anyone ever says it to you, run.) Even NASA's vaunted moonshot, so often referred to as the best of government innovation, tested with dozens of unmanned missions first, several of which failed outright. Failure is always an option. Engineers work as hard as they do because they understand the risk of failure. And for anything it might have meant in its screenplay version, here that sentiment means the opposite; the unnamed executives were saying 'Addressing the possibility of failure is not an option.' ... Healthcare.gov was unable to complete even a thousand enrollments a day at launch, and for weeks afterwards. As we now know, programmers, stakeholders, and testers all expressed reservations about Healthcare.gov's ability to do what it was supposed to do. Yet no one who understood the problems was able to tell the President. Worse, every senior political figure—every one—who could have bridged the gap between knowledgeable employees and the President decided not to. And so it was that, even on launch day, the President was allowed to make things worse for himself and his signature program by bragging about the already-failing site and inviting people to log in and use something that mostly wouldn't work. Whatever happens to government procurement or hiring (and we should all hope those things get better) a culture that prefers deluding the boss over delivering bad news isn't well equipped to try new things.'"

494 comments

  1. guy at the top was in on the ruse too by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    >> a culture that prefers deluding the boss over delivering bad news

    I'm pretty sure the guy at the top was in on the ruse too.

    >> no one who understood the problems was able to tell the President

    Isn't there a petition system for that? :)

    1. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thank you!

      Mr Obama knows exactly what is going on and has known this was coming for years.

      >> no one who understood the problems was able to tell the President

      Im the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and I can't get answers from my subordinates regarding the failures of my flagship project. What happens to me? *I am fired.*

      Quit making excuses for a lame duck administration.

    2. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Qzukk · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure the guy at the top was in on the ruse too.

      Guess who his boss is?

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    3. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by davide+marney · · Score: 4, Insightful

      According to the Washington Post:

      "A final 'pre-flight checklist' before the Web site’s Oct. 1 opening, compiled a week before by CMS, shows that 41 of 91 separate functions that CGI was responsible for finishing by the launch were still not working. And a spreadsheet produced by CGI, dated the day of the launch, shows that the company acknowledged about 30 defects on features scheduled to have been working already, including five that it classified as 'critical'".

      The question is, what did the President know, and when did he know it? We know the responsible White House staff knew the system would not work because it simply wasn't finished. And that's only for the parts that were to go live on October 1st. As we heard last week from the existing CTO on the project, there is still 30-40% of the backend system that hasn't even been written yet.

      I don't think it is reasonable that no one told the President about this. I think the President knew, but decided to push it through anyway. Why? Personally, I think it's because he believed that the glitches would be forgiven, and because the press was behind him, he could always blame the other side, and they would go along as the usually do.

      --
      "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    4. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried firing him last time. So its not the American People. Perhaps it is Corporate America?

    5. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Having watched more than a couple failed IT projects, the person with the purse strings was told exactly what they wanted to hear. This is what happens when you give someone financial incentive to sugar coat the truth. They end up blowing so much smoke that no one knows which way is up. The real problem is the people who write contracts that do not have any real penalties for failure to meet the over arching goals. As long as the company providing the service gets to write the proposal there are not going to be enough penalties for substandard products. This is why I have become completely disillusioned with the whole RFP bidding process.

    6. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1, Troll

      From the article:

      All told, of the 45 items in which CGI had expressed high confidence at the late August meeting in Baltimore, most were still not ready by the time consumers were supposed to be able to start to buy health plans online through the federal marketplace

      And, do you really think a President who spent 4 years convincing people he's actually American is going to blow off a major website snafu and hope to ride his middling approval rates through it all? The thought that this is another conspiracy and that you'd equate it to Watergate is ludicrous.

      What about the past 5 years would make you think Obama could have a high profile failure and expect to be forgiven? That is utter nonsense.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    7. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yet Obama's response was not "By executive order, if the website is not fully functional by December 1st, all executive departments are hereby forbidden to award future contracts to CGI or its successor entities."

      What a putz.

    8. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by INT_QRK · · Score: 1

      Axiom 1: The emperor, on occasion, has no cloths. Corollary 1: Emperors' political appointees are reluctant to bring this condition to the emperor's attention at each instance of occurrence due to their dependency on the emperor's good graces. Root cause: Human beings are imperfect, even the best and brightest among them; and even were they to approach perfection on any subject at any random juncture, neither conditions nor information are ever likely also sufficiently perfect to flawlessly formulate and execute their best laid plans. Commentary: Thus it has always been; thus it will always be. Implication: Be prudently wary of large and extremely complex laws, strategies, and "5 year economic (etc.) plans". Also, be extremely wary of the conceits that motivates them. Neither governments nor any other institutions conceived of man have ever been, nor will ever be, perfect. Therefore, they should be reasonably limited in scope and reach through vigorous public monitoring and judiciously enforced checks and balances within. That's what the U.S. Constitution tries to do. Recommend that we forget those principles, as we surely do from time to time at during every generation, at our grave peril. That said, every kid has to touch the burner at least once.

    9. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by CamelTrader · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Guess you're not the CEO of the Fortune 500 I used to work for. I see this frequently the time in corporate structure as well - the bigger the structure, the worse it is.

      Underling: "That's impossible. We might get it done in N days, and C isn't actually possible without a complete rewrite."
      Low-Boss: "Great. The time frame is tight but we can do it with some extra elbow grease! Let's meet about the specs."
      Mid-Boss: "Timeline is great and we'll iron out the details."
      Upper-Boss: "It's all on track."
      BIG Boss: "Great job."

      The developer has to do the work, and is the most accurate about time constraints and difficulty of the project. At each level of reporting, though, the prognosis get's a little better because nobody wants to deliver bad news. Low management says it will be tough and there are some problems. Middle management says things are looking good and they're working out the kinks. Upper management says everything is great. The Boss has no idea. The more levels there are, the more dilute the bad news becomes.

      --
      Your .sig is important to us. Please hold.
    10. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by davide+marney · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And, do you really think a President who spent 4 years convincing people he's actually American is going to blow off a major website snafu and hope to ride his middling approval rates through it all?

      Yes. Look at it politically from his point of view. What was the alternative? Admit failure? Delay for a year -- after just winning the sequester against the hated Republicans who ran on exactly that proposition?

      The thought that this is another conspiracy and that you'd equate it to Watergate is ludicrous.

      Whatever gave you the idea I said this was a conspiracy? The question about what the President knew does comes from the Watergate era, but that is incidental. It's just a very pertinent question.

      --
      "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    11. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >> a culture that prefers deluding the boss over delivering bad news

      I'm pretty sure the guy at the top was in on the ruse too.

      >> no one who understood the problems was able to tell the President

      Isn't there a petition system for that? :)

      OK, so the guy at the very top, the guy who's trying to talk 535 overblown egos into co-operating and getting things done, (which, by the way, haven't been co-operating one damned bit in 5 years) carrying on secret talks with a government who hasn't talked with us in like 30 years to try to defuse some of those 535 overblown ego's dreams of American imperialism and military adventurism, putting up with a childish ally in the region of said 'black sheep' government that wants nothing else but to turn said black sheep's country into a fucking parking lot, trying to keep yet more American boots off the ground in yet another country in the same damned region while aforesaid childish ally insists turning that country into a golf course, and trying to run his department of the government while being chronically shorthanded due to some of 100 idiots as a subset of the 535 overblown egos who are determined to ratfuck him at every instance possible, having to deal with multiple manufactured scandals (in particular, one created by a subset of those 535 idiots defunding a program that would have mitigated the damage done to an American embassy with concurrent loss of life in an attempt to create a Pearl Harbor-type incident as a precurser to demand American military intervention in yet another country the 535 don't particularly like) designed to boost support for their ideology, this guy supposedly has detailed information on the planning, design and implementation of a fucking website designed and built on a cost-plus government contract? When'd he have TIME to deal with that?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    12. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't even take multiple layers of management.

      I recall a manager who would say that we'd have testing done in one week, and each time I'd say that it takes two weeks to run through the all the tests in the test plan.

      At the end of the week he was still surprised (outraged even) that only half the tests in the plan had been performed. They'd been prioritized of course, but there's only so much you can do when tests take a certain amount of clock time.

    13. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by davide+marney · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When did he NOT have the time to pay attention to the most important legislative agenda of his entire Presidency? Personally, I think historians will be writing books about the answer to that question for decades to come. Here's the problem: either it really is his key agenda item, or it isn't. If it is, then why did he let it go live on October 1st? If you say, "someone else made that decision", then it can't be his key agenda item, can it? Who concedes decision-making power of the most important item on one's list?

      It's more than a conundrum, it's a full-blown mystery.

      --
      "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    14. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Conspiracy, as in what the GP is positing; that there's a conspiracy to cover up the President's intentions to start out healthcare.gov with a flawed website. And, to what purpose? He secretly wanted to F up his major achievement?

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    15. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      If you've been in the industry long enough, you've probably been part of a project where management pushed a release that was not ready. It always turns out this way, but it's still tempting sometimes anyway.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    16. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I think the President knew, but decided to push it through anyway.

      I highly doubt it was the presidents choice. He probaly knew about it, but at that point everything was set in stone. All the important dates are codefied in law, changing them requires an act of congress, and with the GOP's hate of the bill, they'd do what they can to block it, or at least delay it in an attempt at making the problems show a bit more.

    17. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Boss has no idea.

      At least for big public projects, there is a solution: prediction markets. If plenty of low level people know a project is seriously off track, the prediction market will reflect that fact. All public spending proposals should have explicit goals and be tested in prediction markets before they are funded, and if the market consensus is that the proposal will fail, then it should be either modified or abandoned.

    18. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Jawnn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thank you!

      Mr Obama knows exactly what is going on and has known this was coming for years.

      [citation needed]

    19. Re: guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His major achivement us to fuck up the private insurance kludge that is Obamacare and 'rescue' the situation with a single-payer fixup.

    20. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes. Look at it politically from his point of view. What was the alternative? Admit failure?

      I don't know why he has to take responsibility for healthcare.gov's failure -- it was obviously a result of Bush's poorly thought-out and eventually doomed policies.

    21. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Fesh · · Score: 1

      One thing I've wondered, though... If the market predicts that the project will fail and then the project is cancelled based on the market prediction... Do the payouts for the people who bet on failure still go through?

      --
      --Fesh
      Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
    22. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by thoth · · Score: 1, Informative

      All this sturm and drang over the website is total BS anyway.

      If the website isn't working, just fall back to pen, paper, stamps, and envelopes, like it would have been in the ancient past of say... 20 years ago before everybody expected regular consumers to have web access.

      Or perhaps the RWNJ noise makers can point out to me where in the Constitution it says laws MUST be accompanied by functioning websites? All those strict interpretation original intent founding fathers conservative boneheads can stuff that in their john birch ayn rand free market asses. Let's not forget it was private contractors that failed to deliver the product.

    23. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Tempting...hell grandiose fist pounding while barking demands to deploy....there wasn't even enough thought put into that for one to entertain that the person doing this reasoned through a mental pathway that could have involved contemplating a temptation (yes, I've experienced this). I attribute this to wild-eyed animalistic stupidity.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    24. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't there a petition system for that? :)

      When the petition system first came online I voted for one of the top issues (legalize it!) and was completely ignored. Why should I waste my time giving them more feedback when they'll only use the data they like?

    25. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      hell grandiose fist pounding while barking demands to deploy

      If anyone did that to me, I would smile and release it immediately. Yes sir, and then laugh when things turned out badly.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    26. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      ++this. Wasn't this all covered in "How To Succeed in Business Without Really Trying"?

    27. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When'd he have TIME to deal with that?

      While he was on the golf course or out demonizing somebody, that's when. He's never in the office doing his job.

      How many times can he say 'I was unaware' about things going on in his administration before you realize he is a terrible executive.

      "Obama conceded he had "underestimated" the complexities of the insurance process, walking back his promises from before the exchanges launched that HealthCare.gov would be like booking an airline ticket online. "Buying health insurance is never going to be like buying a song on iTunes," Obama said. "What we're also discovering is insurance is difficult to buy," he added." http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/190276-obama-we-fumbled-the-rollout

      Wow, who knew? While we're at it:

      Who knew it would be hard to closed Guantanamo bay?
      Who knew we shouldn't send guns to Mexican drug dealers?
      Who knew the IRS shouldn't target conservatives?
      Who knew our embassies might need protection?
      Who knew the rebels in (name any middle eastern country) may not be our friends?

      You can go on and on with this. We really need better management, and we aren't going to get it.

    28. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All this sturm and drang over the website is total BS anyway.

      If the website isn't working, just fall back to pen, paper, stamps, and envelopes, like it would have been in the ancient past of say... 20 years ago before everybody expected regular consumers to have web access.

      Slashdotters should know the point of using technology is to make something efficient.

      A manual process still takes logistics, planning, scheduling, and execution.
      Millions of people will need stamps and forms and a way to evaluate their options and fill the forms out correctly and submit them by the deadline.
      Thousands of processors will be needed to process the millions of forms, correct errors, and complete the application process.

      None of which was planned for when they created this mess in the first place.

    29. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well for the developers, they had a time line that Was an Act of Congress.

      For your company, you will probably be able to delay the product release if there is a serious glitch going on. However the problem was there was a Legal Act of Congress saying this is when the website will need to be up and running.

      Also there is a difference between government work and For Profit work. Government is Risk Adverse while For Profit is innovation driven.
      So working for the government for any President, your job is to not screw up so you will get fired or have to go threw some scandal, you can have a million of successes and one failure, and that failure will bring you down. In most good For Profit companies it focuses on your success. You screw up a few times, even some big ones, that is Ok (You may not be happy about it), you learned from your mistake, however under your belt you have a lot of solid successes that will drive you forward.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    30. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by dosilegecko · · Score: 1

      Making excuses for him by saying "he was too busy dealing with X, Y, Z" (while not only stating asinine political comments) outed you as an Obama zealot. He spent a lot of time and effort on this project, forcing it down everyone's throats, and rearranging 16% of the US economy (which has global ramifications). You're damn straight he should have had time to make sure his project launched smoothly. Keep being a zealot and making excuses for people, all you're doing is enabling them and rewarding them for failing.

    31. Re: guy at the top was in on the ruse too by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      That is simply madness. It is divergent with reality to a degree incapable of repair. If this fails, there will be no further reform in our generation. The Republicans will gleefully roll back the ACA and do nothing. The Insurers will go back to denying coverage for pre-existing conditions and dropping coverage once you get sick. If this fails, the Democrats lose the next half dozen election cycles as well.

      There is no world where Obama willingly allows the ACA to fail.

    32. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by GodInHell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That would be against the law. Congress has regulated the procurement process for government software and IT projects to hell and back, that's why big incompetent companies like CGI win the contracts over and over, they know the system. It is designed to produce middling to poor results at modest cost - when it works we get competent tools, when it dosen't, costs balloon and the incompetent contractors make out like bandits taking extra pay to repair what they broke (again, can't withhold payment like any small business would do). SNAFU exists as a term because of the special kind of bureaucratic process that comes out of democratic government.

    33. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Im the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and I can't get answers from my subordinates regarding the failures of my flagship project. What happens to me? *I am fired.*

      No, you are allowed to resign with a golden handshake of $millions.

    34. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not called giving bad news. It's called responsibility, and the people who reach the highest are the ones most adept at avoiding it.
      Those CEO's you read about, that burn down their companies, get a huge bonus and move to another for even more money, are at the top of the chain.

    35. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If the website isn't working, just fall back to pen, paper, stamps, and envelopes, like it would have been in the ancient past of say... 20 years ago before everybody expected regular consumers to have web access.

      Just because you go back to paper forms in the mail doesn't mean it's going to happen. That's a system that would also need setting up. And as service is in any case is a multi-variable comparison of many different providers to see which one is best for a particular citizen, that part of it would need a computer system creating anyway, for the people receiving the forms to calculate the answer.

    36. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Bartles · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even the dates codified in this law have been changed by executive action. This president does not appear to think he is bound by the law or required to faithfully execute it.

    37. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Karzz1 · · Score: 1

      I believe this is all part of that new "no president left behind" rhetoric. Oh.. wait..

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    38. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Im the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and I can't get answers from my subordinates regarding the failures of my flagship project. What happens to me? *I am fired.*

      Save it. Recent history suggests that you'd either get a board-approved raise and/or leave with a HUGE Golden Parachute severance.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    39. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      One thing I've wondered, though... If the market predicts that the project will fail and then the project is cancelled based on the market prediction... Do the payouts for the people who bet on failure still go through?

      Generally, no. This would be specified in the contract, but normally, it would be specified that if the project was not funded, people betting both for and against would simply have their money refunded.

    40. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      When'd he have TIME to deal with that?

      While he was on the golf course or out demonizing somebody, that's when. He's never in the office doing his job.

      Where were you when Dubya took off goddamned near a full YEAR of vacation days during his 8 years? Obama's had 92 days off so far, that's like 18 days a year. Had Dubya continued playing golf after 2003 at the rate he was doing, he would have played 192 rounds of golf during his term rather than the 24 he put in because he thought it wasn't a Good Thing to be caught playing golf while American troops were getting their asses shot off. So Obama plays golf. I don't blame him, they tell me it relieves stress. And if you don't think he's stressed, care to explain how grey he's become over the last 5 years?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    41. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where were you when Dubya took off goddamned near a full YEAR [yahoo.com] of vacation days during his 8 years?

      Who cares? He's not in office, and he's not running for office. If he runs again you can bring it up.

      On the other hand, Obama is in office (sometimes) and he's obviously incompetent.
      You know it, but rather than admit it you want to compare vacation days with his predecessor.
      Don't waste my time.

    42. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Your assuming that the POTUS even wanted the website to work, the website would allow Americans that are required to purchase health insurance to compairison shop for prices and features; it's not hard to imagine that is not in the best interests of all the stakeholders. Many insurance companies are spending much more money on marketing, looks to me like the big boys are working hard to stake out their market share in a rapidly increasing market and are using their advertising budgets to freeze out the smaller companies and the longer the website is down the longer the big guys have to get a headstart.

      I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying they FUBARed the site on purpose, but I can see how they mihgt not be motivated to follow up on it as much as they should have.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    43. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and as a CEO, if your subordinates hide or do not pass on relevant info about an impending doomsday event for the company, the subordinates tend to get fired. In the Obama admin, they get promoted.

    44. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by budgenator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What about the past 5 years would make you think Obama could have a high profile failure and expect to be forgiven? That is utter nonsense.

      Pretty much everything in the last 5 years, if the press had been as aggressive Obama as they were with W. Bush, he definately would not have gotten as many free passes as he has had.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    45. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know of a CEO who's held responsible for failure? God, I thought those were extinct.

    46. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      I don't know about your company, but the CEO of my organization really doesn't micromanage every single software project. The IT department is 2% of our workforce. He's a smart guy, but ain't nobody got time for that.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    47. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by paulpach · · Score: 1

      Who concedes decision-making power of the most important item on one's list?

      The person who wants to be able to say "I was not informed" in case things go south... obviously.

    48. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I was contracting we had to deal with a Project Manager with that sort of outlook. She was telling the developers one thing, and the client another thing entirely. It took quite a while for the truth to come to light.

      The developers were told that the client was unwilling to allow the (already late) schedule to slip any further, so we'd have to work extra hard (and extra hours) to get it done.

      The client was told that everything was proceeding as scheduled.

      We came in one morning (after nearly 3 months of 80+ hr/wk crunch) and were informed that the PM in question was no longer part of the project, and they were searching for a suitable replacement.

    49. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The timeline was defined by an act of Congress, as was the budget they had to work with. (The budget they were given was approximately 10% of the budget they estimated for completion by the required date.)

    50. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, just maybe, the person who *BY LAW* doesn't actually have the authority to make those decision, and *MUST* convince that other body of government to do something if it's something he wants to get done.

      But I suppose the simple fact that the President doesn't *have* the power to unilaterally enact new laws (a power granted only to Congress), has escaped you?

    51. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by dosilegecko · · Score: 1

      Its sad but true, everyone is so biased and has been so conditioned to be partisan that their side can't fail, and the other side's every tiny mistake a earth-shattering hide-yo-kids disaster. I'm sick of both sides and haven't been happy with the leadership in this country for a long long time now. I say leave them all behind.

    52. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q1: Who knew it wo9uld be hard to closed [sic] Guantanamo bay [sic]?
      A1: Probably the same Congress that refused to allow it.

      Q2: Who knew we shouldn't send guns to Mexican drug dealers?
      A1: Far too few administrations. It was a bad idea when the Bush administration did it, too.

      Q3: Who knew the IRS shouldn't target conservatives?
      A3: Everybody, including the IRS, which *didn't* "target conservatives". In fact, they targeted groups across the political spectrum regardless of whether they were 'left' or 'right' leaning. A key fact 'missed' by the folks who wanted to blow that into a 'scandal' that 'must' have been orchestrated by the President himself? The *ONLY* group so 'targeted' that could demonstrate that it's application had even been *DELAYED* was a liberal-leaning organization.

      Q4: Who knew our embassies might need protection?
      A4: Apparently not Congress. After all, it is *their* job to allocate funding.

      Q5: Who knew the rebels in (name any middle eastern country) may not be our friends?
      A5: Not Reagan. Not Bush. And not Bush the Lesser.

      It's the utter hypocracy of people trying to blame Obama for things that they took no issue with when Bush was in office, or worse happened *before* he was in office that makes people who are actually informed tune idiots like you out.

      Let's go back to the embassy question for an example:

      During Obama's watch, we've lost 4 people to attacks on US Embassies. That's horrible, right? It would take someone who was absolutely, mind-bogglingly incompetent to allow that to happen, right?

      So where was the public outcry when we lost *dozens* of people to attacks on US Embassies during Bush's time in office (53 deaths from 11 such attacks from 2002-2008)? Five of the attacks under Bush's watch involved 4 or more deaths of embassy personnel. Three resulted in the deaths of a dozen or more.

      Maybe someone should have told *Congress* that embassies need protection before the it cut security funding to those embassies?

    53. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 3, Funny

      Im a nuclear scientist and a brain surgeon and the CEO of 5 fortune 500 companies, and I say you're full of shit.

    54. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      As the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, being fired is merely the next step in getting an even more lucrative position. A failed CEO is a hot commodity since you have experience! You'll probably get a larger golden parachute than most of the workers will make in a decade. The worst is that you go from making $50 million a year in compensation ($1 salary plus options plus forgivable loans) into another job where you make $25 million a year.

    55. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He most likely knew about this. Why do I say that? Because the press is focused solely on the problems the website has had which is the least bad thing that's happened with the ACA. I mean, it's just a website with technical problems. They'll get it fixed eventually and then no one will remember it. However, the noise surrounding the website in the media is entirely obfuscating several of the other major issues currently happening with the ACA, namely that Healthcare.gov (the federal site, 36 states) had enrolled only 27,000 people in insurance, and a total of 106,000 enrollments including the state sites like Californias, compared to near 5 million people who lost their insurance plans and have to enroll in new ones with different coverage, a specific promise by Obama (just 1 million in California alone, the 5M is one of many estimates floating around about nationwide).

      http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/11/12/calif-insurance-commissioner-more-than-1m-californians-having-insurance-cancelled-due-to-obamacare/

      Or the fact that the subsidy amounts are ending up being lower than thought and people are actually not able to afford insurance, and now will be forced to be taxed:

      http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/politics/obamacare-subsidies/

    56. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      forbidden to award future contracts to CGI or it's successor entities? Are you f'ing kidding? Who would be the successor entities? Do you mean take all the employees who leave CGI and go to another company are on some government blacklist and as such their new employers also would never get a contract?

      Besides, how do you know that CGI is responsible? It isn't feasible to assume that the Government put onerous requirements and unreachable deadlines based on politics and not reality? And that CGI was not warning them from the beginning about this?

      Never run for office. Never become a manager. In fact, it might be best that you just stop talking. Totalitarian dictatorships are not welcome in an open and free society such as America.

    57. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well for the developers, they had a time line that Was an Act of Congress.

      And you know what else was in the law? The timeline for the individual and the employer mandate.

      I'm still wondering how Obama has been able to put those off legally, even with executive order?? That doesn't seem right and I wonder why no one has sued for this...I would think anyone planning for this law to be in full effect according to the dates of the law would have standing on this.

      I think this would be a good time to test the boundaries and maybe define more what exact powers the President has with Executive Order. It needs to be seriously reigned in IMHO in general.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    58. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by matfud · · Score: 1

      How did you buy insurance from the companies before the web site started/failed?

    59. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      underfunded shit, overfunded shit... when have they ever paid a fair price for a good product?

    60. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      honestly, at work i would prefer to say anything but "i dont know" or "no one told me" if a problem arose from those who work for me.
      its a leadership failure, and it should be embarassing and shameful to anyone in charge.

    61. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by paulpach · · Score: 1

      Or, just maybe, the person who *BY LAW* doesn't actually have the authority to make those decision, and *MUST* convince that other body of government to do something if it's something he wants to get done.

      But I suppose the simple fact that the President doesn't *have* the power to unilaterally enact new laws (a power granted only to Congress), has escaped you?

      The HHS is under executive branch. Meaning Obama is the one in charge of that department. Obamacare was approved by congress as law under a democratic majority, and execution belongs to the HHS which belongs to Obama.

    62. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a key worker in such a project (the team leader of the development staff, say), would you not be able to game such a market for your own personal enrichment by intentionally delaying the project until after a date you had predicted the development would be delayed until? The way I see it, such markets can only realistically be used if anyone with actual influence over the outcome is not permitted to participate in the market, thus in this case the people with actual knowledge about how optimistic the schedule is would have been prevented from participating, and the market would fail to make useful predictions.

    63. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by catfood · · Score: 1

      ...For Profit is innovation driven

      *snort*

      At best, For Profit is profit driven. It's often short-term-stock-price driven or cover-my-ass driven or CEO-bonus-driven. Once in a great while it's innovation driven, but generally only when all other alternatives have been extinguished.

    64. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Racist.

    65. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The budget they were given was approximately 10% of the budget they estimated for completion by the required date.

      The current budge is over $634mil. Are you saying that the original cost projection was $6.3bil?

    66. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I never needed to. I live in a civilised country with a national health service. I don't need health insurance.

    67. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by volmtech · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it does not pay to over promise and under deliver. I was on a 1940s era steam powered Navy destroyer in port making repairs. Another Machinist mate and I were tasked with replacing a critical pump for our distillation system. Our engineering officer promised the captain the unit would be functional by noon the next day. Steamships can't run without a freshwater supply. We two worked all night scrounging up a pump from the repair depot and installing it. We hit the rack the next morning while the electricians wired the pump. Six hours later I get up and notice we are pulling back into port. The pump was defective and the ship was not allowed to stay at sea without a freshwater supply. Let's say the captain was not happy. We got shore leave :). No idea what that poor lieutenant got.

    68. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are leaving out 2 overblown egos. Obama and Biden as well as the other 535.

    69. Re: guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Bartles · · Score: 1

      You do realize it's been illegal since 1997 to drop coverage once you get sick?

    70. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by pugugly · · Score: 1

      You guys know that
      A - the Federal website notwithstanding, the actual results of the law are pretty much as predicted by the laws designers and the CBO predicted, not the disaster the right wing kept claiming would happen, and
      B - Websites . . . can be redesigned . . .

      Because you're focusing on a short term issue here.

      Pug

      --
      An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
    71. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by pugugly · · Score: 1

      Oh wait, you couldn't . . .

      --
      An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
    72. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Bartles · · Score: 1

      He didn't spend 4 years convincing them. He spent 4 years blowing them off. If he wanted to convince them he would have released the requested documentation early on in 2008, in the interest of transparency. Personally, I think he intentionally encouraged the controversy.

    73. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by Bartles · · Score: 1

      The purpose was to get re-elected at all costs. If that meant lying about his sole achievement, then so be it.

    74. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by wiz0690 · · Score: 1

      Not one CEO of any company worked for had any clue to how our software projects worked (or didn't). Results, not excuses are what was expected.

      --
      /steve
    75. Re:guy at the top was in on the ruse too by matfud · · Score: 1

      I also live in country with a national health service.
      All these US insurance companies sold insurance before this web site and now people are claiming they can't buy it because of the we site. Yeh the laws have changed but the insurance companies are the same. The policies may differ but people used to shop around via phone or web sites and can still do so. The federal site is just icing on the cake to mak it easier. It is not necessary

  2. Bipartisanship by Andrio · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When both parties work together toward a common goal, we can put a man on the moon.

    When both parties work against each other, and try to stop each other every step of the way purely for their own political agenda, we can't even launch a damn website.

    --
    The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
    1. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Over half the country doesn't want it. I'm glad to see you just ignore that and blame those people instead. I guess they shouldn't be allowed to have a voice in the government because they disagree with you.

      I'd also like to see a citation where the GOP actually did anything to hamper the web site.

    2. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      So you are saying that Republicans' opposition to the ACA law is somehow responsible for the failed website? What is your evidence? Just like when the law was passed, the GOP was completely shut out of the process when it came to implementation. They couldn't offer any amendments, debate any of the issues (other than in the press), or stop any of its funding. Obama had over 3 years and nearly a billion dollars to get the web site ready and he blew it. Other than failing to be his cheering section from the sidelines like the Democrats, nothing the GOP did prevented or caused Obama from falling flat on his face on the field.

    3. Re:Bipartisanship by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      The website launch cant really be blamed on partisanship; its not like congress was arguing over the placement of DIVs. The partisan arguments were whether we could shut the program down; but as that wasnt really going anywhere its hard to blame that for a broken website.

      The contractor dropped the ball, and there was no management or accountability put into place. Really not that complicated, and theres not really any other explanation when the higher ups were convinced the site would launch just fine on Oct 1.

    4. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am from Canada so I am not very familiar with the ACA.

      I find it weird that so much attention is given to the website though. Why is it so important for the ACA to work?

      At the end day, wouldn't people end up buying health care from a private company? Why is the government in the business of providing a website so that people can buy health care from a private company? Isn't that weird? Even if the website is a good thing because it allows people to compare the different plans, since the private companies are the ones who will profit from selling these plans, they are the ones who should have footed the bill and developed their own solution, no?

    5. Re:Bipartisanship by es330td · · Score: 5, Informative

      we can't even launch a damn website.

      The Republicans in Congress had exactly ZERO involvement with the implementation of the website. Once approved by Congress, and then upheld by the SCOTUS, it was on the Executive branch to hire the firms to build the website. This is 110% on the Executive Branch of the government.

    6. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The governor of Tennessee flat out stated he could have done a better job setting up a state sight, which he thought was a good idea, but refused to do so.

      Why? Politics.

    7. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When a country, that has received the (temporary) blessings of a goodly portion of the world banks, is lifting off in a multi-decade experiment in keyesianism, and combine that with the residual WW2, "get her done" and "risks be damned" attitude, that kept bureaucracy and regulation in check, and add in a new blossoming impetus in the cold war ....and what you have is a perfect storm, to result in our rocket program.

      Fast forward.

      1. The cold war ended, and it broke the russians, and it put us in a pretty big hole as well, the blowback of which, we're still seeing.
      2. The central banks still find us useful, but the original deal-with-the-devil (or devils) is now approaching 60 years old, and the central banks are now playing defense, positioning themselves within the transition to China.
      3. The "get her done" and "risks be damned" attitude that kept bureaucracy-hell in check, are now fully replaced with idiocracy, which is very easily seen in corporations, but is far worse in the biggest corporation of all, The United States Federal Government, which has 4 million dependents, and another 12 million unofficial dependents, the weight of which is not merely creating a sag, but bellies are dragging. The warfare/welfare state and endless push for centralization, because a little bit helped us win a war or two, so multiplying centralization by a million times, will make this country a million times better, has been championed by democrats and republicans, taking turns providing warfare benefits to the banks, and welfare benefits to individuals, corporations, and anyone with hat in hand....

      So in conclusion, I find your statement moronic, and perfectly symptomatic of the stage we have reached.

    8. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Incredible.

      You act like Republicans built the web site or created the ACA legislation.

      You're not tone deaf, you're mentally ill. STFU with the BS platitudes.

      And in case you were wondering, I'm a Democrat, although one who isn't afraid to criticize this disaster that needs to be repealed and suggest that Obama needs to impeached and thrown out.

    9. Re:Bipartisanship by bberens · · Score: 1

      One of the big parts of the ACA is the "healthcare exchange" where health insurance providers are required to basically bid in a centralized exchange. Supposedly to create competition. There are two options.. either your state can create its own exchange (insurance laws vary by state) or your state can opt out and you'll be dumped on the federal exchange. The "website" everyone is talking about is the federal exchange. If it's down, you can't purchase the health insurance you're required by law to purchase. It's pretty big egg on the face of Obama for it not to work, even though he obviously had no part in the technical aspects of it.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    10. Re:Bipartisanship by John+Jorsett · · Score: 2

      When both parties work together toward a common goal, we can put a man on the moon.

      When both parties work against each other, and try to stop each other every step of the way purely for their own political agenda, we can't even launch a damn website.

      When party A thinks what party B did was an extremely bad idea and very harmful to the country, is it logical or even realistic to expect it just to shrug its shoulders and help out?

    11. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It can be blamed on partisanship. Just look at the states who refused to set up their own exchanges, so instead of fifty attempts from numerous contractors, it was under two dozen, one of which to cover thirty or so states whose government refused to serve their people purely for political reasons.

      Just look at the statement of the governor of Tennessee. Not only did he think the idea of a marketplace was a good idea, he thought his state could run the exchange better. So why didn't,t he? A bullshit excuse about not getting enough freedom from the federal government to do it.

      Similar actions occurred across the country. The ACA gave states a chance to make their own attempts. Why didn't they? Partisan politics.

    12. Re:Bipartisanship by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      You must be new here.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    13. Re:Bipartisanship by Virtucon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wait, so you're blaming bi-partisanship on the fact that the DHHS mismanaged a project. A project which: A) They had more than sufficient funds available. B) A Mandate in terms of legislative action. C) An executive branch lead by the guy who pushed this shit through?

      I'm sorry but if somebody gave me over $300 million to develop a website with the requirements that these guys had, it would be done and our contract would have had penalties for failure to deliver. None of these contractors who put this mess together have yet to be held accountable for their own mismanagement and that is at the heart of why government projects like this fail, the contractors always have weasel clauses that the government allows, ultimately releasing them from blame when things go Tango Uniform. There's ample fees and revenue to be made for change orders which do nothing but encourage the project management team to encourage them to the stakeholders, causing delays and increasing the overall cost of the project. Healthcare.gov has had over $300 million spent on it and it's still doesn't work. Now they've extended dates and shifted delays and I'll bet you within 3 to 6 months they'll try to scrap it and start over. In the meantime you'll get a friendly letter from the IRS saying you owe a penalty because you haven't signed up because now there's thousands of new public servants at that vaunted institution just looking to fuck you over because the T wasn't crossed or some other problem that the government created but now it's your problem. "Oh you couldn't sign up? not our problem, we're the IRS and we're always right and you're wrong."

      This whole piece of shit legislation was thrown together by a bunch of morons who wanted to look good. I won't quote that retard Pelosi but the fact that nobody read the legislation. It was over 2000 pages long and more than anything else, shows how truly fucked we are in this country because at that point when legislation gets railroaded through like this because "Teddy is dying and we need to show we still lick the Kennedy's nutsacks in DC" Is no reason the rest of us have to take it up the ass. So while you blame gridlock let's not forget that for two years the Democrats pushed all this shit down our throats, not reading the legislation and trusting that it would all work out; Glinda the Witch of the North will wave her wand and make it all better.

      Don't believe me? In 2009 after the ARRA was passed I had the privilege of flying from DC to Raleigh Durham, sitting behind two Congressmen heading back home, one newly elected on Obama's coattails. They were high fiveing the crew when they came on-board "We passed it!" one exclaimed. During the brief flight they kept handing pieces of the ARRA legislation back and forth with one saying "I didn't know that was in there!?" The other being so myopic that even with glasses he held the pages about 2 inches from his nose to read them.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    14. Re:Bipartisanship by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      That's because both parties would rather tell you what's best for you. One Party things the Government should be all things to all people, the other says we'll tell you what to do but we won't pay for you to do it.

      It's a great system but there's no reason this shouldn't have been done right the first time. The budget was there, it was spent but we got a shitty deal.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    15. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, said another way, Gov. Haslam made a rational decision with the information he had **at the time**....

      "It's hard to know the exact answer to that. I do know in the end we felt like it was their [Obama administration's] program. They're the ones who suggested it, and it would be better in this initial stage if they ran it. The thought being, at the time, that having two cooks in the kitchen when you're trying to put together something that complex would make it that much more difficult."

      http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/oct/31/haslam-unsure-on-obamacare-decision/

    16. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      False. 26 Republican States refused to create their own website by the December 31st 2012 deadline, forcing the Federal government to create 26 websites in less than a year.

    17. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the Republicans did NOT create their own State website in 26 States. That's the problem. It's not what the Republicans did, it's what they didn't do.

    18. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the law gives states the option to build their own, or to allow the Federal Government to run on on the states behalf. The Governor of Tennessee takes option #2. He's now responsible for the failure of the Federal Government to build the site it committed to building?

      He may have been able to build a better one, but the capital and human resources required could have starved other priorities. Again, how is making a rational decision for Tennessee causing the failure of a federal website?

      Enshrined in our constitution is also a limitation on the federal governments power. It can offer funding to entice states to act, it cannot, however, conscript the states power and *force* them to act. There are exceptions to this rule, however, SCOTUS already ruled on this matter specifically. So, again, how is a governor excercising his constitutional power the cause of the failure of a federal website?

    19. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When both parties work together toward a common goal, we can put a man on the moon.

      When both parties work against each other, and try to stop each other every step of the way purely for their own political agenda, we can't even launch a damn website.

      Well, to be fair, this WAS clearly the fault of $PARTY. As always, if they just did everything $OPPOSING_PARTY told them to do without all this meaningless bickering, then $COUNTRY wouldn't be in the mess it is now.

    20. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      All within the dictates of the law.. So, it was the fault of the law which allowed 26 states to opt out? Naw, that might tarnish the halo on the anointed one so we cannot blame the his law for the mess.

    21. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And ironically, the ACA website was supposed to just be a portal to state websites.

      But had to become more because the states were lazy.

      Why? Politics.

    22. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All within the confines of the legislation as passed by congress and signed by the president... So might it be the LAW's fault?

    23. Re: Bipartisanship by Minwee · · Score: 2

      The governor of Tennessee flat out stated he could have done a better job setting up a state sight, which he thought was a good idea, but refused to do so.

      Why? Politics.

      Or perhaps it was spelling.

    24. Re:Bipartisanship by Boronx · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah, actually that's a serious problem. You may think the ACA is a bad step, but to to think it's "very harmful to the country" to the point where sabotaging it seems a better option than trying to help it is nuts. You've already slipped away from logic at that point.

    25. Re:Bipartisanship by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      That's because both parties would rather tell you what's best for you. One Party things the Government should be all things to all people, the other says we'll tell you what to do but we won't pay for you to do it.

      It's a great system but there's no reason this shouldn't have been done right the first time. The budget was there, it was spent but we got a shitty deal.

      Two words. 'Government contract'. Why do it right the first time when the big bucks come from maintaining the sucker? That's a cost-plus contract, basically a blank check. Remember the classic definition of an elephant is 'a mouse built to government specs on a government contract'.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    26. Re:Bipartisanship by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      One of the big parts of the ACA is the "healthcare exchange" where health insurance providers are required to basically bid in a centralized exchange. Supposedly to create competition. There are two options.. either your state can create its own exchange (insurance laws vary by state) or your state can opt out and you'll be dumped on the federal exchange. The "website" everyone is talking about is the federal exchange. If it's down, you can't purchase the health insurance you're required by law to purchase. It's pretty big egg on the face of Obama for it not to work, even though he obviously had no part in the technical aspects of it.

      Each state was supposed to provide their own exchange. Red states tend not to have them (Kentucky being a major exception, but they're not marketting it there as 'ACA' or 'Obamacare', they put their own brand name on it) and mostly tend to turn down the federal funding to expand their Medicaid program to close the 'donut hole'. The Federal exchange wasn't designed to have 2/3 of the country's states decide to do nothing, not spend state funds that they could have been reimbursed for, and dump the whole damned thing on the Feds for shits and giggles.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    27. Re:Bipartisanship by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dude, if I can get 300 mil for a website, how much more can I get to maintain the sucker?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    28. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      His partisan politics are responsible for his failing the people of his state by refusing to do what he said he could do better. His decision was not rational, it was partisan, he made no excuse about not having resources, he wanted such an exchange, he thought it was a good idea, he even said he could do it cheaper, and at lower cost to Tennesseans.

      He wasn't compelled to act. It was his choice. By his own words, he could have spared the people of his state from the failures of the federal website. He chose to willfully act in a way he expressly stated would disadvantage the people of his state. Why? Political partisanship.

      So yes, we can blame the federal website on partisanship. Otherwise we would have had fifty or so different programs, rather than two dozen or so with many states leaving it to the federal government. Entirely on partisan grounds.

    29. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except they don't think the are a bad idea. The governor of Tennessee expressly supported the idea of exchanges AND thought he could do a better job than the federal government.

      He just wouldn't run a state site, with the excuse of not enough freedom or something. So he gives it all up?

    30. Re: Bipartisanship by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      No, it was only for vision care. Dental, Mental and Bodily health were all to be covered federally.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    31. Re:Bipartisanship by Geste · · Score: 1

      I am getting pretty tired of reading asserions like "we can't even launch a damn website". What they were trying to launch was not a Website but a very complex, probably too complex, brokerage-type system to mate people with myriad insurance options.

      While I think that the Shirky article makes a lot of excellent points, I'm not sure that it deals with a problem of sanity: We didn't try to land a man on the moon in this case. We naively believed that we could land one on Jupiter.

      All of this is a predictable result of a flawed approach: placing the interests of insurers far above the interests of people who actually need health care.

    32. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you realize that Haslam is refusing to admit his partisanship and expects us to forget him saying that the state of Tennessee could run the site better and cheaper than the Feds.

      But not all journalists did:

      "Haslam had originally leaned toward the state running the exchange and said Tennessee could run the system “better and cheaper” than the federal government."

      So he trots out a phony excuse to justify his partisan decision. If he really cared about the people of his state, why did he let his decision be to let the people he thought would do it worse have complete control?

      Who thinks like that except a partisan hack?

    33. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You saying it was an optical problem ? :-D

    34. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is apparent that you want & approve of the Affordable Care Act. Your argument, however, presumes the people in his state (beyond you) want the federal program and b) that at the time he made his decision he knew the government site would fail. That he blustered after that fact that he could have done it better is irrelevant.

    35. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong.

      When it's in the national interests to expedite the development of technology and damned the costs, especially when that technology is dual use (putting a man on the moon developed numerous military technologies specifically tied to nuclear weapons exchange), then we can put a man on the moon.

      Political agenda is always there; don't look at the 60's through rose-colored glasses. The sole difference at that time was the fact that the public was frightened by the perception of the advanced state of the USSR, and it became both parties' political agenda to appease that fear. Today there is no existential fear in America, so the political agenda has shifted to battling each other.

    36. Re:Bipartisanship by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      When both parties work together toward a common goal, we can put a man on the moon.

      When both parties work together, we spend a trillion dollars, and get a sack full of rocks.

    37. Re: Bipartisanship by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      This is a gigantic non-sequitur. We're discussing why the healthcare.gov site failed, not the politics around everything else. What the gov of Tennessee did has in relevance to why the healthcare.gov website failed, as he was not involved nor had any impact in its creation.

    38. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When both parties work together toward a common goal, we can put a man on the moon.

      When both parties work against each other, and try to stop each other every step of the way purely for their own political agenda, we can't even launch a damn website.

      Lifting 12 people to the moon and back cost about 10,000 times more than the website.

    39. Re:Bipartisanship by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      I think that's the point. This when we drag out cliches like "TEAM == Together Everyone Achieves More". In the 1960s we had an external competitor so we banded together and achieved; now the so-called team leaders spend their time cutting each other down, while the mass of people sit and do nothing.

    40. Re:Bipartisanship by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. A law isn't a person. The people who created the law, and brought it in into existence are the problem. Those people are the Democrats under the leadership of the President. If they make a broken law, then it's their fault if it doesn't work.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    41. Re: Bipartisanship by neoritter · · Score: 1

      There's no arguing with you because no matter how it's explained to you, you will manage to argue he was being partisan. But I'll run down a little list of reasons why any state Governor would've wanted to stay out of making their own state website. Haslam's quoted reason, their cost analysis actually came up pricier, they saw how messy it was going to be and opted to let the Feds handle it, other issues in their state were more important and since the Feds were going to do it they didn't have to make it a need to do on their agenda.

    42. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, giving states freedom has been shown to be a failure. For example, see any of the numerous examples of states' rights resulting in oppression as the federal government turned a blind eye to the abuses.

      And yet we keep doing it.

    43. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Republicans in Congress had exactly ZERO involvemen

      Exactly. They didn't help at all so this is all their fault. Not a one of them voted for this so 100% of the blame can be laid on them because they didn't help.

    44. Re:Bipartisanship by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      Naw, after the 300 mil I'll be on my own version of Fuck-Off island.. Of course with global warming, er climate change I will have to wear hip waders most of the time. At that point I won't care much for maintaining any website.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    45. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is entirely relevant, because it shows the partisan conduct involved.

      The people of Tennessee, according to their own governor, could have had a state-run site that he believed was a good idea, that he believed could be done better and cheaper by the people of the state, but he chose not to do it.

      Why? Partisan politics.

      Result? The people of Tennessee don't have the better and cheaper site their governor said he could have delivered.

    46. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have an infinitely cheaper site... a site they didn't build which cost them nothing. The people of Tennessee did not want ACA, the governor felt that the ACA would be worse for the American people.

    47. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He actually made the blustering that he could have done it better BEFORE deciding not to do it.

      So that's entirely relevant to his decision. Which again, can be blamed on partisan politics.

      And FWIW, I do not approve of the Heritage Foundation's plans, such as these exchanges, but if we're going to have them and if our state governors say they can do better, they should, rather than refuse as part of a partisan agenda.

      Really, if I'm a resident of Tennessee, why do I want my governor inflicting a federal site upon me if he could have offered a better one?

    48. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >and get a sack full of rocks

      Yeah, but really cool rocks, man...

    49. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is 110% on the Executive Branch of the government.

      Haven't you ever taken a probability and statistics class? Or do you just like to exaggerate?

    50. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no, they're still paying for one. From the Feds. When according to the governor, who supported the idea of an exchange, he could have done it better and cheaper with a state-run exchange. How does that make things better for the people of Tennessee? Did you think they're paying any less in taxes to pay for it? They might be a taker-state, but if so, that just makes them a parasite already.

      And they still have the rest of the ACA to comply with, and the governor's still hunting for a way to get the Medicaid expansion because he knows the state needs it.

      So all they got for his partisanship was a worse site than he says he could have delivered?

    51. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marty Kaan, is that you?

    52. Re: Bipartisanship by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      His partisan politics are responsible for his failing the people of his state by refusing to do what he said he could do better. His decision was not rational, it was partisan

      You are completely ignoring the cost issue. If it's going to cost $$$ to put together a website but someone else offers to do it for free, that "free" part is pretty tempting.

      Sure, they probably could have done it better. But it wasn't "free good Tennessee website" versus "free bad federal website."
      It was "expensive good Tennessee website" versus "free bad federal website."
      You may notice that under those terms it comes down to much more than a "state versus federal" partisan battle.
      I'm not privee to Tennessee's finances, but most states are pretty cash-strapped these days and can't afford to turn down something the feds say they'll do.

    53. Re:Bipartisanship by sphealey · · Score: 1

      = = = I am getting pretty tired of reading asserions like "we can't even launch a damn website". What they were trying to launch was not a Website but a very complex, probably too complex, brokerage-type system to mate people with myriad insurance options. -= = =

      Megadittos, as a certain demographic likes to say. healthcare.gov was in essence one of the largest EDI projects of all time, with all the transactions going live on the same day rather than phased in. And we all know how much the current generation of Web n.x people loves to work on EDI code. They just run to sign on for EDI projects the way lemmings run to embrace Disney film crews.

      Very, very complex project. Certainly some senior management failures all the way to the Oval Office, and probably (as is often the case) a portion of those failures due to arrogance and failure to listen. But at the same time, not working too badly given the size, scope, and hard deadlines, and apparently getting better day-by-day as anyone with megaproject experience would expect.

      sPh

    54. Re:Bipartisanship by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      As many others have already asked... How did the any Republican run state sabotage the laws by simply following the law? If Pelosi, Obey and Obama had not wanted the states to be able to not provide their own exchanges, they could have found other ways to penalize (entice) them.

    55. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, because he was being partisan, making a decision based on party politics. You can't convince me it's water when I'm being served a bucket of frothy piss. But no, Haslam's statement was not that it would cost more for the state, but that he could do it better and cheaper for his state if he didn't leave it up to the Federal government. And yet he did choose to not implement one.

      Thereby making the people of his state not get the better and cheaper site he said he could deliver, that he did want, so instead they're paying for the federal site.

      Who thinks like that?

    56. Re: Bipartisanship by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      The people of Tennessee, according to their own governor, could have had a state-run site that he believed was a good idea

      Which still would have had no impact on healthcare.gov, which is why your entire rant is irrelevant. The existence or lack thereof of any number of state exchanges has no relevance to the failed launch of the federal exchange.

    57. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for cutting out half of my sentence. Please quote the whole thing, so you don't miss the point, which was that according to the governor of the state of Tennessee, he could have had a better site, for cheaper, than the federal one.

      Therefore, according to him, if he had done it, the success or failure of the federal site would not have been relevant to the people of Tennessee.

      The people of Tennessee, according to their own governor, could have had a state-run site that he believed was a good idea, that he believed could be done better and cheaper by the people of the state, but he chose not to do it.

      See, that's how you quote a whole sentence, without leaving out the point of it. Why did you do that? You didn't even need to quote it at all, anybody could have gone up to the parent with a quick bit, but if you are going to quote, do it properly.

      So now that you know what I'm saying, please tell me why the governor of Tennessee chose not to provide the people of the state with the better site he could deliver?

    58. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm...let's check the stats so far:

      Newly insured as a result of the ACA: ~100K
      Newly UNinsured as a result of the ACA: ~5M

      Net gain (loss) in insured people in the US: ~(4.9M)

      I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that a law that was intended to reduce the number of uninsured, but instead actually increased it by nearly 5M people is "very harmful to the country."

    59. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are completely ignoring how the people of Tennessee are still going to pay federal taxes that will include paying for the site, and how the governor actually said he could do it better and cheaper.

      It wasn't "expensive good Tennessee website" versus "free bad federal website." but actually "better and cheaper Tennessee website" versus "expensive and worse federal website" as the governor himself said. And still paying for the latter. Unless you support Tennessee being a welfare state, perhaps?

      You may notice under those terms, it comes down to asking yourself why the governor of Tennessee chose to impose on the people of his state the worse option?

      Partisanship. His party demanded it.

      Can the people of Tennessee afford a governor who chooses the worst option for them? What will that cost them?

    60. Re:Bipartisanship by Jonner · · Score: 1

      When both parties work together toward a common goal, we can put a man on the moon.

      When both parties work against each other, and try to stop each other every step of the way purely for their own political agenda, we can't even launch a damn website.

      Don't forget that the common goal was not something lofty like scientific discovery, but to beat the commies. So, it may have not been a partisan issue in the US, but it was a political agenda.

    61. Re:Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody's expressly uninsured, they might have received notices from their insurance companies that they're being enrolled in a new plan, but they can't be flat-out denied insurance.

      They can, however, choose to try to enroll you in an over-priced plan and not even tell you about their other offerings, let alone the exchange site where you can see other plans.

      Thus people believe they're suddenly uninsured, or forced to pay some ungodly premium rather than actually aware that they can consider other options.

    62. Re: Bipartisanship by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Im saying its irrelevant because youre the only one discussing the state of the Tennessee site. The thread is on the failings of healthcare.gov, not any other website, and the state (or State) of Tennessee has nothing to do with that: They arent a contractor, they arent the developer, they arent in a management role for it.

    63. Re: Bipartisanship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the governor of Tennessee had chosen to implement a site for his own state (and he said he could have done it better and cheaper than the Feds), then there would be no concern about the federal healthcare.gov of significance to the people of that state.

      The same applies to other states where the governors similarly chose not to implement their own site, when they could have, if they chose to do so, however, I'm not sure if any of them expressly claimed they could have done a better job beforehand, like I am with Tennessee.

      See we could have had fifty attempts to do it right, which would have been about two dozen more than we did get, but governors like the one for Tennessee decided to give into their partisan sentiments rather than serve the people of their states.

  3. They had to launch the website... by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just ask Pelosi: they had to launch the website so they could find out what would crash it.

    --
    In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    1. Re:They had to launch the website... by bdemchak · · Score: 4, Funny

      ObamaCare: Architected from Behind.

    2. Re:They had to launch the website... by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Very pithy and insightful. Consider this comment an upmod.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    3. Re:They had to launch the website... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more like from the behind.

  4. Where was the Press? by moehoward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While there is plenty of blame to go around, I am still left wondering where the investigative journalism was regarding the true progress of ACA implementation as the 3 years progressed up to this point.

    So, while the press is justifiably having a field day with the sheer incompetence displayed here, where were they while all this was developing?

    --
    "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
    1. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The press was busy covering Miley Cyrus, Charlie Sheen, and whatever the hot political issue was at the moment, because that's what gets them ratings.

    2. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You sell more stories reporting on a train wreck than stopping one.

    3. Re:Where was the Press? by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you kidding me?

      The press was either cheerleading for Obama in other areas, railing against everything the Republicans did or supporting the failed gun control push, among other items.

      And that's when the Obama administration wasn't pursuing press relations that would have made Goebbels and Stalin proud, like their stage-managing of White House press photography.

      Serious investigative journalism of the ACA implementation, had it revealed what we know now, is very likely to have further enabled repeal attempts or at least led to significant delays in implementation. I don't doubt that there were closed-door editorial debates over whether ideology and party loyalty were more important than journalism.

      And even if you posit a perfectly neutral press, what exactly does investigative journalism of ACA implementation look like? How do you put software development issues on the front page of a newspaper? So many technical decisions that can, would and will be debated endlessly (cf. Slashdot), plus so much would be completely opaque given it was in the hands of several different contractors who would have never cooperated with the press and who would have run to their political patrons for protection as soon as the press began sniffing around. It would have taken lawsuits to gain access to this information.

    4. Re:Where was the Press? by Seumas · · Score: 2, Informative

      The press covers what the administration instructs them to cover and they don't have time for investigative journalism, when there's tweets to twitter.

    5. Re:Where was the Press? by Beeftopia · · Score: 4, Funny

      Google Trends underscores this point.

    6. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think I've ever seen FOX news cheerleeding for Obama.. I think you've got some problems with the accuracy of your post.

    7. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They were probably trying to find some dirt on Snowden`s previous life. It would make more economic sense to them.

      After all the drumbeat for the Iraq war, I feel it`s even refreshing that someone still thinks there`s something called investigative journalism in America.

    8. Re:Where was the Press? by Rolgar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you remember all of the Y2K stories for YEARS before the year 2000? Had people all worked into a frenzy that power plants and other equipment wouldn't work on 1/1/00. I've read that the White House is pretty hostile to any publication/reporter that prints a critical story. Pair that with the love certain media individuals have with Obama, and you get a whole lot of brushing stuff under the rug that 6 years ago was extremely hostile to a president that was pretty similar on policy and competence.

    9. Re:Where was the Press? by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The answer is: there isn't really investigative journalism anymore. Journalists mostly deliver the news as presented to them in press releases.

      Lots of people would like to attribute this to malice and corruption, or else stupidity and laziness. Unfortunately, a big component of the problem is much harder to address: there isn't any money in providing news. Traditional news outlets are struggling to maintain revenue channels. Newspapers are going under, and TV news is mostly focused on tabloid news, because that's what people watch.

      More than anything else, the poor quality of journalism is our own fault. We're getting the news that we choose to watch and choose to pay for.

    10. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google Trends underscores this point.

      False dichotomy. The people are not informed, therefor don't know to look for ACA and it's impact. In order for people to search for it, they have to be aware of it. It should be obvious by the November trend that people _would_ be interested if they knew. The peak 2013 is even with the media trying to drown out ACA issues with more Sports, Miley, Zimmerman, etc...

    11. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really don't look very hard then.

    12. Re:Where was the Press? by swb · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't think I've ever seen Fox News engaged in journalism.

    13. Re:Where was the Press? by mlts · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you want investigative journalism, there is always Al Jazeera, who has their own bias, but in places that they don't have an axe to grind, it is surprisingly good.

      I forgot the name, but there is a German news organization who is also quite good, provided it isn't an article about German interests or political parties.

      There is also a Russian paper (whose name I forgot as well... and it is not Pravda) that also have some good articles on what is going on.

      In the US, you have to go elsewhere to seek actual news. If you want propaganda, Fox, CNN, and MSNBC will hand you all you can swallow.

    14. Re:Where was the Press? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Had people all worked into a frenzy that power plants and other equipment wouldn't work on 1/1/00.

      Things wouldn't have worked if they didn't fix them. That's like saying there's all this frenzy about vaccines. [sarcam] I mean polio and measles aren't that bad since no one I know is affected by them. [/sarcasm]. The problem is that when something works well and avoids a disaster some people think it wasn't necessary. For many years, FEMA did a good job at disaster recovery until Katrina hit. Then the country saw the effects of a poorly run government agency and why putting someone competent in charge matters.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    15. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      With the exception of one peak October, Miley Cyrus' trending numbers for every month during for the last three years is higher than Obamacare is today. Coupled with the rapid expansion of the food stamp program, it's the modern day equivalent of Bread and Circuses.

    16. Re:Where was the Press? by microbox · · Score: 1

      Serious investigative journalism of the ACA implementation, had it revealed what we know now, is very likely to have further enabled repeal attempts or at least led to significant delays in implementation.

      I'm not sure what could have been done differently. You have an entire political party and all the associated partisan news sources trying to sabotage the law as best they can, in the hope that they can give the Dems a black eye and turn the ACAs failure into a win at the polls.

      If the problems in implementation were publicly known earlier, we would simply have had more grand-standing.

      The administration screwed up with the role out, but I bet the true state of affairs is far better then generally believed, since we have the motivated reasoning of 10-15% of the population spinning this as the worst law _ever_. For every person who has legitimately got a worse deal with the ACA (apparently less than 0.1%), I wonder how many people are better off? Mainstream media aren't interested in that story, and why should they be if it doesn't get click-impressions on their websites? People like to be angry about stuff, and so that is what we're fed, in the hopes that we'll click and be outraged, and then share.

      The older I get, the more I realize the deep insanity at the core of our political process.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    17. Re:Where was the Press? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Serious investigative journalism of the ACA implementation, had it revealed what we know now, is very likely to have further enabled repeal attempts or at least led to significant delays in implementation. I don't doubt that there were closed-door editorial debates over whether ideology and party loyalty were more important than journalism.

      And when do you suppose this was going to happen? Serious investigative journalism takes time, and the website is barely two months old. It's not likely that it will be done in a day or a few weeks. Unless there was a whistle blower telling a journalist every step of the way what a mess it was. By contrast, Woodward and Bernstein spent months on Watergate until it began big news.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    18. Re:Where was the Press? by swb · · Score: 2

      So we're back to the yellow journalism of the 19th century.

      The question is, how did the old yellow journalism become the so-called serious journalism of the 20th century? I kind of question whether we EVER had a real serious investigative press.

      Sure, we had progressive muckrakers but their medium was often books, not newspapers. We seemed to have a pinnacle of journalism in the Watergate years, but a lot of the mid century seemed to be an establishment press more than happy to tow the establishment line.

      TV news and the 24 hour news cycle seemed to have seriously sidelined written journalism, and when nobody reads you can't have an idea that doesn't take 30 seconds to deliver, especially if there's not a picture.

    19. Re:Where was the Press? by microbox · · Score: 2

      Corporate consolidation destroyed investigative journalism. Why would you run a documentary on one of your eye advertisers... and who are they? All the other major companies. And then there's the threat of expensive law-suits.

      The government has nothing to do with those incentive structures.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    20. Re:Where was the Press? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Had people all worked into a frenzy that power plants and other equipment wouldn't work on 1/1/00.

      Things wouldn't have worked if they didn't fix them.

      The OP didn't say that Y2K was a non-event. But one of the reasons it was a non-event was because of the attention it got in the news. That encouraged people not to ignore the issue.

      Healthcare.gov did NOT get that sort of news coverage, and the result was a non-functional service with a tax penalty associated with not using the service...

      And yes, I think that if the media had been reporting on Healthcare.gov the way they reported on Y2K, we'd probably have a working system in place, instead of what we have....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    21. Re:Where was the Press? by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      As opposed to the Previous Regime stomping on anything other than 'America!! Fuck Yeah!!'?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    22. Re:Where was the Press? by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      They were probably trying to find some dirt on Snowden`s previous life. It would make more economic sense to them.

      After all the drumbeat for the Iraq war, I feel it`s even refreshing that someone still thinks there`s something called investigative journalism in America.

      Good news is, there is. Bad news is, it's on Al Jazeera America.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    23. Re:Where was the Press? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There were two sides to the Y2K problem. On one side, it was, "some computer systems won't work anymore, because they will get dates wrong."

      On the other side you had people hoarding food and loading shotguns because Y2K was going to result in the end of civilization. Power plants were going to blow up (literally, people thought that). The second side was the frenzy. It was never going to happen.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    24. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The question is, how did the old yellow journalism become the so-called serious journalism of the 20th century? I kind of question whether we EVER had a real serious investigative press.

      In all honesty, there never was independent journalism. What is (falsely) remembered as independent journalism was a time period when over 90% of reported news came through one alliance of similarly-minded newspaper and broadcast TV owners. It also hinged greatly on one charismatic reporter who singlephrasedly handed victory to the North Vietnamese while their generals were hiding in tunnels writing that they cannot resist for another week.

    25. Re:Where was the Press? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Healthcare.gov did NOT get that sort of news coverage, and the result was a non-functional service with a tax penalty associated with not using the service..

      Well I'm guessing that there were multiple reasons. One of them is that the press simply didn't know and didn't have access unless there was a whistle-blower. Blizzard and EA can attest to launch disasters, but there was no impending doom reported from the tech press. The second reason I can think is that everyone was focused on the shutdown. Sadly the only place I saw that covered anything about the rollout disaster in the beginning was The Daily Show complaining.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    26. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And that's when the Obama administration wasn't pursuing press relations that would have made Goebbels and Stalin proud, like their stage-managing of White House press photography."

            This has been going on since at least Reagan. A particular instance was when Sam Donaldson nailed Ronny a couple of times when he would walk through the reporters to leave the press room. After that, Ronny was always walking out the back of the press area away from any inquiring reporters after making announcements. A method which is still used today. He stopped being a leader of the public then and just another leader.

    27. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's a mistake to judge Obama on a curve relative to the insane Republicans. That sets the bar way too low.

    28. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no great press conspiracy. The press has become the Republican wet dream of a fully capitalist endeavor selling exactly what the people want while making a hefty profit and everyone involved is happy. I pick a news source that is my own personal yes-man, they get to sell my eyes to advertisers and I get fed a bunch of heavily slanted crap that reinforces my own worldview.

    29. Re:Where was the Press? by swb · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is that investigative journalism would have been going on the entire time the site was being put together, not just after it launches and doesn't work right.

      It's debatable how "newsworthy" this could have been in a general news publication -- how you build a web site is technical and even good technology choices made by talented and experienced people can be open to debate. It would probably be hard to make interesting reading, probably along the lines of trying to explain financial derivatives or credit-default swaps.

      At the end of the day, this is the most significant web site launch in Federal government history (at least in terms of profile, if not in actual citizen impact) and there probably should have been reporters engaged in the entire development process and hopefully cultivating the kind of sources who would expose deviations from standard software development, weird product choices and deviations from traditional methodologies.

      But this whole project just went unnoticed until it exploded.

    30. Re:Where was the Press? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      TV news and the 24 hour news cycle seemed to have seriously sidelined written journalism, and when nobody reads you can't have an idea that doesn't take 30 seconds to deliver, especially if there's not a picture.

      Let's not forget the Internet. The Internet opened the door for amateur activist journalism in a way that was not previously possible, but it has also almost killed print journalism, which had been where a lot of our "serious news" was coming from.

    31. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Answer:
      Listen to Fox News.

    32. Re:Where was the Press? by hguorbray · · Score: 1

      I think you are referring to Deutsche Welle http://www.dw.de/

      and the BBC is known to be pretty global and evenhanded compared to US journos http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/

      -I'm just sayin'

    33. Re:Where was the Press? by matfud · · Score: 1

      Y2K did affect many systems across all industries. No It probably would not have made power stations blow up. But it could have and in many cases would have cased shutdowns of transport, power generation, banking, water and other essential companies. If those companies were in a hissy fit as accounts and payrole were not working then there would have been a lot of problems for a lot of people. Not the end of the world zombies comming to get you kind of problems but significant problems none the less.

      Thankfully most sorted out those problems well before they were likely to be an issue (and for many there was no issue) Those who would likely have an issue knew they would and sorted themselves out as there was money involved.

    34. Re:Where was the Press? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      But it could have and in many cases would have cased shutdowns of transport, power generation....... water and other essential companies.

      Probably not.......it would more likely have followed the pattern seen in cases like when the California government doesn't settle a budget and doesn't pay workers (sometimes for many months). They just keep working, and complain a lot.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    35. Re:Where was the Press? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Of course not... They have a reporter facing jail for not revealing sources that helped her break the story on how mentally deranged the Aurora theater shooter was but investigative reporting like that no clearly longer counts as journalism (in your own words). My guess is that want counts as journalism in your book is blathering on about how tingly certain politicians make your extremities.

    36. Re:Where was the Press? by matfud · · Score: 1

      In the US may be. In most of europe people working for privte companies would say Woop its a Y2K day unless promissed overtime or something. That still would not have really effected most if it was sorted within a few days. Saleried people would still try to get to work. But the kind of fixes that needed doing could not be done in a few days (fix and test and migrate data). And some of the issues could stop people from working.

      Say an ISP decided that all customers where overdue for a bill so cut them all off. Airlines getting in a tissy as thier planes are now due in 1900. Holiday makers stranded abroad. Insurance companies asserting that your claim yesterday was made in 1920 (hey some had the foresight to add an offset when dealing with 2 digit dates) and it is now to late to claim.

      Not to mention embedded systems controllers that just barf when they ask for a time stamped measurements from bits of kit. Not the end of the world but very expensive and probaly most funny.
      well 2032 is not that far away. It seems most have learned though.

    37. Re:Where was the Press? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      So Europe sucks worse than America? Is that what you are saying? :)

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    38. Re:Where was the Press? by matfud · · Score: 1

      Not quite but the land of the free and the home of the 'I've got mine so f you' seems to carry on working when many in 'socialist' (-bad word) countries would say 'no pay no work'

      Odd contradiction there. I don't know which is better if better can even be determined. Live to work or work to live perhaps. Maybe not. No philosophical insights or ways to make everthing all right.

      But the kind of discussions, such as this entire story, make me chuckle. People may associate themselves with political parties around here. In the US generaly it seems like people arguing about their favorite footall teams. (Not from the US as you can probbly tell). Blues yeh!, Reds woop!

    39. Re:Where was the Press? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      People may associate themselves with political parties around here. In the US generaly it seems like people arguing about their favorite footall teams. (Not from the US as you can probbly tell). Blues yeh!, Reds woop!

      Yeap, I guess that's true

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    40. Re:Where was the Press? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I'm saying that unless there were journalists informed of the fiasco early on, you won't get any detailed reporting for a few months because serious investigative journalism takes time. It is not like the 24-hr news networks where they report every innuendo and rumor because they want to be the first to scoop something.

      It's debatable how "newsworthy" this could have been in a general news publication -- how you build a web site is technical and even good technology choices made by talented and experienced people can be open to debate. It would probably be hard to make interesting reading, probably along the lines of trying to explain financial derivatives or credit-default swaps.

      The problem is that the public finds Miley Cyrus gyrating on stage more "interesting" than explaining how changes in the derivatives regulations in the 1990s are partially responsible for the financial crisis or what happened during the meltdown.

      At the end of the day, this is the most significant web site launch in Federal government history (at least in terms of profile, if not in actual citizen impact) and there probably should have been reporters engaged in the entire development process and hopefully cultivating the kind of sources who would expose deviations from standard software development, weird product choices and deviations from traditional methodologies.

      I would give it some time before someone reports an in-depth story of how it happened. Most likely it won't be from the likes of CNN or Fox or MSNBC. Also everyone was so focused on the shutdown that they were not paying attention to the website.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    41. Re:Where was the Press? by internerdj · · Score: 1

      You know what is scarier? I get a different slant of articles if I'm logged in at Yahoo than if I'm not. They've tried to predict my political bent and think I want only articles that support that.

    42. Re:Where was the Press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're thinking of Der Spiegel's online publication and possibly Novaya Gazeta. You may also be interested in Le Monde Diplomatique and the Financial Times Asia.

  5. More like... by Seumas · · Score: 1

    Isn't it more like the gulf between focusing on a service versus focusing on the nepotism behind awarding contracts to provide that service?

  6. Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    the worst fears of the GOP will be realized - people will be getting better healthcare at lower cost.
    No one will remember the hysterical media and its 24/7 garbage reporting
    People will remember the almost unbelievable distortions of "news" sources like S Hannity, which had what amounted to out and out lies about PPACA
    u an anti obamacare politician, get ready to duck as a tidal wave of your constitutents march with signs saying, keep the gov't out of my medicare/obamacare
    of course, that some person (or a few million people) are living much happier healthier lives will only be a page 3 story

    1. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the worst fears of the GOP will be realized - people will be getting better healthcare at lower cost.

      The GOP by and large isnt bothered if your costs get lower (though, in reality, it is not actually possible for the majority's costs to get lower when we are now covering higher risk people); the concern is that we are going down a path of surrendering every area of life to government control. The idea that the government has the right to tell you to buy X product in order to live in this country is problematic; and its problematic that the government is OK with saying "it doesnt matter what bad choices you make in life, we (that is America at large) has your back".

      Theres a term called "enablement" when dealing with someone who has an addiction / other problem; it refers to feeding their bad choices by taking away all consequences. What do you suppose happens when everyone is paying into insurance to cover the terrible choices others make? Or, I suppose, we could fix that by legislating exactly how people can live everyday life, but Im not seeing that as much better.

    2. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, remember this was sold to the people using a known lie. "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, period."

      You are foisting another lie, that the ACA is going to make healthcare cheaper. There is no way you can make something cheaper by increasing the demand for the product alone and that's all the ACA does. Prices for everybody will only rise, unless you work on the supply side too. The ACA doesn't address the supply side, so costs can only increase.

      But what's worse, the ACA is going to fundamentally change healthcare in this country, and not for the better. We will all end up with less access to higher cost lower quality healthcare. Where it's true, some who don't now may get insurance, at this point it seems likely more will loose the insurance they have. All of this was foreseeable and where objections raised by republicans.

      The public decided to believe the democrats' lie over the republican objections. So be it. Only the democrats now must deliver on the lies, and I'm not sure the public is in a forgiving mood. The public understands that the democrats had free reign on this issue and botched it up badly. The democrats are in for a rough patch now, but they deserve it.

    3. Re:Six months from now by bberens · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As soon as we decided that hospitals were legally required to give you health care if you walked into the emergency room we decided that health care is a human right. That debate is over. So now what do we do about it? You can either have the blood suckers feed off a system they're not paying into, or you can require they pay into it like every responsible adult has been doing for generations. The government is not requiring me to do ANYTHING really. They've created a new income tax (you're exempt if you have no income) and a corresponding tax break if you happen to buy health insurance. While it may be slimey it's perfectly within the normal business of government to enact income taxes and tax breaks. IMHO single payer or Medicare-for-all would've been a preferable option, but it wasn't politically viable, so we got this. It's not great, it's basically a big handout to the insurance companies. Have you watched their stock prices? They've shot up over the last few years. But at least the bums who were living off me in the form of higher premiums I was having to pay each year will now be paying in. And if someone was really sick and was unable to get health insurance at any price before now gets health coverage.. isn't that GOOD? My ex-wife couldn't get private health insurance. I know, because we tried. She had a clotting disorder but was generally a healthy and able-bodied person. But nope, can't buy health insurance. So unless her provider got her on a group plan, she was completely SOL. If more people like her, and even people who are not able-bodied can get some insurance now then that's awesome.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    4. Re:Six months from now by bberens · · Score: 1

      provider->employer

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    5. Re:Six months from now by bkmoore · · Score: 2, Informative

      ....The idea that the government has the right to tell you to buy X product in order to live in this country is problematic...

      There's more than one way of looking at it, and I'll try to explain it in a way that even the most neo-liberal, free-market capitalist would understand. Before Obama Care, back when Barack Obama was probably the name of somebody living in a cave in Afghanistan, the government was requiring those who sold a "product" (medical care) to give it away for free to those who could not or would not pay for it (the uninsured). Forcing "retailers" (hospitals) to give away their "product" (medical care) for free is not a sustainable business model, especially when in some "markets" (states), such as Texas, 20% of the population "cannot pay for the product" (is uninsured). But rather than go out of business, the "retailers" (hospitals) divided the cost of giving away their "product" (medical care) to "unpaying customers" (uninsured patients) and added it to the overhead payed by their paying customers (insured patients). The insurance companies turned around and increased the "price" (insurance premiums) they charged for "X product" (health insurance); thus making "product X" (health insurance) more expensive; thus resulting in more "unpaying customers" (uninsured patients) demanding "free products" (health care) from "retailers" (hospitals), thus further increasing the "price" (insurance premiums) charged for "X product" (health insurance) etc. etc. etc.

      But comparing an inelastic market to a normal consumer product with elastic demand, is really as nonsensical as my post.

    6. Re:Six months from now by cdecoro · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is a common myth that the high cost of health care is due to uncompensated obligatory emergency room care. Like many myths, it provides comfort to the general public, who are always looking for easy explanations for the complex problems of the world. But like all myths, it has the downside of being false.

      In particular, the percentage of a hospital's expenses spent on uncompensated care is about 6% (in 2011, 5.9%)
      http://www.aha.org/content/13/1-2013-uncompensated-care-fs.pdf

      The mandate to provide emergency care to all those that show up in the ER was part of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1986.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

      Turning back to the first link: what was the percentage of uncompensated care in 1985, before the Act? 5.8% So as a result of the treatment mandate, the percentage of hospital's uncompensated care went up all of 0.1%. (From then to today; there was a spike up to 6.4% the year after the Act was passed).

      Undoubtedly, uncompensated care is a problem. It's just a rather small problem. Far bigger is the lack of market forces that removes any incentives to inefficiency.

      As a side matter; I'm very sorry to hear that about your wife -- there is definitely a significant need for improvement in the system for helping people with pre-existing conditions.

    7. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop trolling! As my dad used to say, "Wish in one hand and shit in the other and watch which fills up first!" There have been 0 examples thus far of people getting any better health care at lower costs. Millions upon Millions of people are now paying two to a thousand times the money for a policy, most of which by law you are forced to pay for. Such brilliant items as the 50 year old woman with a hysterectomy being forced to pay for birth control and prenatal care on her insurance.

      Fuck you and your delusion that this is a good thing!

    8. Re:Six months from now by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a common myth that the high cost of health care is due to uncompensated obligatory emergency room care.

      The high cost of health care - as seen for by those without insurance - is the inability of the common man to receive services at the negotiated rate of insurers. An X-ray for a major insurer is $27. Double it and add a zero if I walk into the emergency room without insurance. Pills for your condition? $4 co-pay at the in-network provider for the insured. $40 a pill if you're on your own. Don't pretend the insurer is paying $40 a pill, that's just the price the uninsured pay.

      If I could pay the negotiated rates for day-to-day services, I'd have the highest deductible plan someone would sell me - saving my insurance for something actually worth insuring against - catastrophe. Unfortunately, that's not an option.

    9. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (though, in reality, it is not actually possible for the majority's costs to get lower when we are now covering higher risk people)

      Were the previous system functioning efficiently, this would be true. However, the US for-profit healthcare system is pretty unique among first-world countries in diverting ~30% of the costs to management overhead and profit (everywhere else manages to do this with ~3% of total healthcare costs). Shifting that 30% profitable inefficiency into providing end healthcare benefits would make it possible to cover a lot more people at lower costs to the majority --- as is done by functional healthcare systems in basically every developed nation except the US.

    10. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      The government is not requiring me to do ANYTHING really

      Its requiring us to pay for insurance that covers things that have NOTHING to do with hospital visits.

      It would be one thing if the discussion were just for critical care-- and I bet conservatives would be more divided in that case (certainly I would). Thats NOT the discussion; we're at a point where existing insurance plans are being canceled because they dont provide enough coverage.

      IMHO single payer or Medicare-for-all would've been a preferable option,

      Dont be surprised when the government tells you that you are not allowed to eat cheetos because it costs other taxpayers dollars.

      And if someone was really sick and was unable to get health insurance at any price before now gets health coverage.. isn't that GOOD?

      Sure, if you ignore economic realities and forget all the reasons that we discarded communism and socialism, despite how great they sound in theory. You cant legislate away poverty, and you cant make communism or socialism work no matter how hard you wish.

      I see the appeal to emotion, and I am sorry for your ex-wife, but the reality is that nothing is free in life. The only way to make it free will just bring all of the leeches out of the woodwork. Does this mean that some people get the short end of the stick? Yes, sadly, it does; but the alternative is to ensure that everyone gets the short end of the stick.

    11. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      You cant legislate efficiency; adding red-tape and bureaucracy has never made things work better / faster.

    12. Re:Six months from now by fredrated · · Score: 1

      I take it then that you don't think car insurance should be mandatory.

    13. Re:Six months from now by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Uncompensated care is only part of the issue. The other part is that ER care is incredibly expensive, and yet it is being used as the primary care provider for millions. Also, because the mandate is only for ER care, people can't always get treatment until they can credibly claim that their malady has progressed to the point of being an actual emergency. So a condition that might have been treated inexpensively with a visit to a nurse practitioner now needs to be triaged and managed at a 24-hour emergency center where everyone is being paid overtime - and the condition may now require hospitalization.

      Anyway, the post you replied to wasn't really making the point that the ER mandate caused the spike in healthcare costs - he was just claiming that the enacting of the mandate represents the real point at which our country instituted socialized health care... not when Obamacare passed. People calling Obama a "socialist" may or may not have a point, but their criticism also then applies to Reagan.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    14. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, the insurance companies are able to negotiate those rates with providers because they guarentee an patients to those providers. See: buying in bulk.

      Unfortunately (for the providers) dealing with those insurance companies adds a significant overhead, as procedures must be coded correctly, approvals must be in place before some procedures, some procedures mandate other procedures, etc. All that and if you check the wrong box someplace, you will find out in a month or two and now you start over, all the while the provider still has not been paid that lower amount. Having the staff to do this actually costs alot (how many people work in your doctors billing office? or do they contract it out?).

      That does however open up some interesting options when it comes to the "self pay" market. What you may not be aware of is there are generally three prices for a given procedure: the list price (hugely inflated to allow write-off's when taking lower compensation), the amount the insurance company is willing to pay, and the "self pay" price. There are some serious benefits to the provider when a client opts for self-pay, mostly that they no longer need to deal with the insurance company and therefor will be paid significantly faster with very little (billing) work on their end. They also still get to write off the difference between the list price and what they actually received from you.

      Personal example being genetic screening and various other tests when my wife became pregnant. At the time she had no insurance and we felt we wanted to go ahead with these tests. A month later she calls me at work freaking out because there's $5,600 worth of bills from various labs showing up. I tell her to call the labs and ask what the "self pay" price will be. She calls me back laughing because the bills now total $1,100. I ask why she's laughing and she says she asked how much the insurance companies would have paid and found out it was actually more than we paid!

    15. Re:Six months from now by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      As soon as we decided that hospitals were legally required to give you health care if you walked into the emergency room we decided that health care is a human right.

      That isn't how it works. Hospitals are only required to provide just enough emergency medical care to stabilize you. They aren't allowed to refuse that much, even if you don't have medical insurance or other proof of your ability to pay. That doesn't mean you get the care for free, however: you will still be billed for it, and (IIRC) medical bills are one of the harder items to discharge in bankruptcy. The hospital may never get back the full cost of that emergency care, but they are free to try.

      The actual cost of the portion of required emergency care which isn't actually paid back is small enough to be considered irrelevant.

      As I see it, there are two major problems with the no-insurance penalty. First, the ACA's proponents claimed that the penalty was a fine, not a tax, right up until the Supreme Court said that it was only constitutional in the form of a tax. Meaning that the ACA was passed under false pretenses. Second, coupling revenue with policy undermines equality under the law. What's the difference, really, between taxing everyone 100% of their income, with a 70% rebate for those who "voluntarily" limit their speech to approved topics, and simply fining you 70% of your income for speaking on unapproved topics, leaving you with nothing? Apparently the constitutionality of any action depends on whether the government pursues it through the courts, where the Constitution occasionally applies, or through the IRS, where there are no limits. That is simply unacceptable for any constitutional democracy.

      An income tax should be just that: a tax on income. It shouldn't vary from one bit of income to another depending on how much total income you have or how much you conform to the wishes of those in power. $X in income should always equal $Y in taxes. If you want a so-called "progressive" tax, implement a rebate system—but not through the IRS. The IRS's job should be simple and straightforward, without a bunch of loopholes and exceptions and tax breaks and special rates depending on how much you happened to make that year.

      My idea of a proper income (more accurately profit) tax form:

      • Line 1: Gross income (market price of all goods and services received)
      • Line 2: Gross expenditures (market price of all goods sold / expenses payed)
      • Line 3: Profit = Line 2 - Line 1
      • Line 4: Tax = x% of Line 3 if positive, else zero

      If you buy or sell a good at the market price, the additions to Line 1 and Line 2 cancel each other out. Line 3 is thus only affected by (a) selling services (which would include income from labor), and (b) buying or selling goods at a price other than the market price.

      "Market price" is ill-defined, but if you insist on having any sort of income tax, I think it's more or less inevitable that you will need to somehow convert the value of non-cash goods into a common currency, even though the concept makes no sense economically. (Prices only exists for specific goods at the times they're sold; anything else is merely a subjective estimate.) Note that this makes no distinction between "business" and "personal" expenses, which was always a rather arbitrary dividing line anyway.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    16. Re:Six months from now by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure we all know why the large providers negotiate the rates that they do -- bulk, and extortion. If Banner doesn't want my [large number] patients at $50 an X-ray, we'll see if Mayo does.

      Self pay rates are certainly negotiable, and available -- unfortunately, negotiating self-pay somewhere between the baby's fever and his treatment isn't always practical, and Walgreens isn't even amused if you ask for your pills on the cheap -- so here I am, buying insurance again.

      An easy and simplified example is dental. In the "bad" parts of town, where they advertise services in at least two languages, you can almost always get services for whatever baseline your local government subsidy care pays for the service. There's considerable competition for dental patients, and the $525 the state will pay for a root canal - as opposed to the $1,100 they want to ask you for - will almost always get accepted if you offer it. [YMMV in the dental office with the marble waterfall in the waiting room.]

      ---

      Aside, I was poor and young once, and eschewed insurance. Then, I got a job and a family, and opted for the best insurance I could afford, and never looked back. I lost my job a while back and moved to contract, and had a short gap this year while we waited for my wife's insurance to cover us all. It's an uneasy feeling, knowing that as someone with a job, the wrong car accident or trip down stairs, or strange lump in the wrong place could have ruined me (and my children) financially.

      I just need to shut up and pay the small fortune in extortion, I guess.

      Overall, I do like taxes. I drove some awesome roads this weekend, and everywhere I pissed along the way had sewage. It was pretty awesome.

    17. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like roads and sewers so therefor healthcare at the federal level is good... Yup...

    18. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What terrible choices, holiest of holies? Oh yes, that's right. All of our health problems are related to smoking and obesity. I forgot. And you don't smoke, and you're lean, so you are wonderful. I bet you ride a bike every day, too.

      God, it must be great to be you. I wish I were you. I am proud of you!!!

    19. Re:Six months from now by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      What a snappy soundbite! However, it seems contradicted by all available facts. *Government-run* healthcare services based on legislated bureaucracies are the ones that put the US "private enterprise" model to shame for return on costs. It turns out you *can* legislate efficiency, as demonstrated in numerous working examples, even if dogmatic right-wing beliefs say this is impossible.

    20. Re:Six months from now by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Slippery slope arguments are always true, amirite?

      Nowhere in my posts do I advocate for mandated healthcare at the federal level -- only that I think the current system is pretty FUBAR.

    21. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ding ding ding. Winner.

      The kind of regulation that *needs* to be happening is something to the effect of "hospitals, clinics, and medical/dental/vision practices are required by law to charge the uninsured at the median or average (whichever is lowest) negotiated insurance company rate". If that were the case, you'd see a huge increase in the number of self-pay patients, a huge increase in the number of subscribers to high-deductible catastrophic health insurance plans, and likely the end of things like "headache" and "had the flu once and went to the ER" barring people from insuring themselves against catastrophic conditions (like life-threatning accidents, HIV, cancer, traumatic brain injuries, gunshot to the head, etc.).

    22. Re:Six months from now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't mean you get the care for free, however: you will still be billed for it, and (IIRC) medical bills are one of the harder items to discharge in bankruptcy.

      You're correct. It's pretty much in second place, only slightly behind student loans, which have recently (in the past decade) been made *impossible* to discharge in bankruptcy. This, combined with the increasing requirement to have a college degree of some sort before you'll be looked at for *any* decent job, means that we're now a country full of educated people who are often tens of thousands of dollars in the hole before we've ever had the opportunity to *build* a credit score.

    23. Re:Six months from now by sphealey · · Score: 1

      There is a also a myth that hospitals and hospital emergency rooms are required to provide care for medical conditions. They aren't - they are only required to stabilize and provide palliative care to any patient who arrives at their doors. Colon cancer and no insurance? The ER will give you a diagnosis and some painkillers, then on your way.

      sPh

    24. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Your post might be on point if A) uninsured emergency care constituted a large portion of hospital expenses, and B) Obamacare was solely about rectifying that and requiring emergency-care insurance. Who knows, a lot of conservatives might have been behind that.

      But thats not what Obamacare is, and theres about a million reasons to object to it. And regarding "A", a quick google turned up a Kaiser Foundation link indicating that,

      Uncompensated care will make up just 2% of total health care spending in the U.S. in 2008

    25. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Examples please, of where additional regulation or legislation has reduced costs and driven up efficiency.

    26. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      You dont have to have a car to breathe, or live in the US. It also isnt the same thing: theres no parallel with car insurance of the threat that the government will now have a say in how you live (ie, being healthier).

      Also, Im pretty sure you dont need a license to even drive, as long as its on your own private property; the personal mandate doesnt take that route, it just says "if you live in the US you must buy insurance".

    27. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure I didnt say any of that, but good strawman. There are a lot of people who make poor health choices, and telling them that they no longer need to worry about the consequences sure isnt going to get them to make better choices.

    28. Re:Six months from now by PJ6 · · Score: 1

      The GOP by and large isnt bothered if your costs get lower (though, in reality, it is not actually possible for the majority's costs to get lower when we are now covering higher risk people); the concern is that we are going down a path of surrendering every area of life to government control. The idea that the government has the right to tell you to buy X product in order to live in this country is problematic; and its problematic that the government is OK with saying "it doesnt matter what bad choices you make in life, we (that is America at large) has your back".

      Theres a term called "enablement" when dealing with someone who has an addiction / other problem; it refers to feeding their bad choices by taking away all consequences. What do you suppose happens when everyone is paying into insurance to cover the terrible choices others make? Or, I suppose, we could fix that by legislating exactly how people can live everyday life, but Im not seeing that as much better.

      Because everyone knows that if someone gets sick, it's always caused by their own bad choices (like being born) and should be either denied care, or financially punished into bankruptcy.

      And I agree totally. High risk people shouldn't be covered at all if they're not rich. Don't "enable" them - they're all just evil, godless liberals sponging off the hard-working REAL Americans. Fuck 'em.

    29. Re:Six months from now by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that that wonky pricing is BECAUSE insurance exists, and any legislation that further entrenches the insurance system is backwards.

      Ideally we would get out of this system where you literally cannot afford common procedures like childbirth without insurance, not make it mandatory for everyone.

  7. Really? by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the *signature* piece of Obama's second term agenda -- the legislation he's harped on loudly and constantly -- launches with an epic fail. The contractors working the site were sounding alarms well in advance of the launch. And yet Obama is somehow utterly unaware that the launch could be anything but a total success? I call bullshit. Either Obama is the most disconnected president in recent history when it comes to the success of his *core legislative agenda* or he's just bullshitting about not knowing there were issues on launch day.

    --
    In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    1. Re:Really? by DeathToBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Aggressively and partisanly put, but I think about right. Any other senior manager in the world who said of a failure, "I didn't know," would immediately be asked, "Why didn't you know? It's your responsibility to know." As techies, we know how this goes - these organisational failures happen from the top down and it is the action of a weak, failing manager to try to pass the blame down the chain. We don't stand for it in any other situation; why would we here?

      --
      Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
    2. Re:Really? by jimbolauski · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you look at any of the blunders that happened during this administration you will see a pattern Obama was not aware of the missteps in his administration. The one positive thing the Bin Laden raid, Obama was at the controls making the tough calls. This worked mostly because the media gave his administration a pass and any critics were deemed right wing cooks or racists. More then likely the pressure to have everything up and running so that the success could be trumpeted for the midterm elections was more important then making sure it worked. Their thinking was that even if there are some hiccups the media will give us a pass like they have in the past and we can crush the republicans. Actually helping people was not part of the thinking process, the problem that millions of people with canceled plans may not be able to get insurance by the deadline is not a concern. This was about politics not uninsured Americans.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    3. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that the people knowing the failures tell their supervisors... who are SUPPOSED to tell their contracting officers... who don't want to know, and ignore/deny the information.

      Thus nothing gets done.

      There is also the conspiracy theory that the contractor employees were closet Republicans and they committed sabotage to create the failure in the first place.

    4. Re:Really? by ogar572 · · Score: 1

      On the Bin Laden raid, BULLSHIT!!!! He was worried that the attempt would fail and look bad on him. There were several other plans put in place to take him out and he denied all of them. He has no military experience. He has no leadership experience. It took countless amount of high ranking military officials to convince him to do this. And were was he when the raid was starting? The fucking golf course. He had to be pulled in.

    5. Re:Really? by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      The contractors working the site were sounding alarms well in advance of the launch.

      They were?

      Either Obama is the most disconnected president in recent history

      He's done this on several issues where responsibility by all rights should have rested with the Executive, but somehow he was unaware of what was going on. I recall some quote about how government is just too big to be able to keep track of it all; its as if he didnt read the job description or exactly what his purpose is.

    6. Re:Really? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      You could say a similar thing about every single US President after Washington. It was not his job to plan these raids simply his to give the military an objective. Lincoln didn't plan troop movements either.
      Why do you want a clown in a tailored flight suit costume pretending to be "hands on" instead of a President?

    7. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh, unless she was lying her face off, Condoleeza Rice was unaware of any problems getting passports to people on time, until she saw a report of actual people having waited months, on tv. All of her managers kept reporting to her that things were going ok, with some 'minor issues' they were working out...

      There _definitely_ exists a culture of not wanting to deliver bad news. At what point should you alert the boss that things might be going wrong... Even if it is just not wanting to bother him/her with stuff that _you_ should be able to handle. And if you leave it too late, it becomes progressively harder to admit things are off track, because of "why didn't you warn us sooner?".

      But don't let reality stand in the way of your partisan view of the world. Because clearly, a failed website is exactly the same as the whole health care reform being an epic fail.

    8. Re:Really? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      the legislation he's harped on loudly and constantly -- launches with an epic fail

      legislation != website

      you must work for the press, given your statement and apparent belief (er, I mean, misunderstanding).

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    9. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any other senior manager in the world who said of a failure, "I didn't know," would immediately be asked, "Why didn't you know? It's your responsibility to know."

      Yeah, but their answer to that question is then ignored, and the senior manager is retained and given a huge bonus as per usual. In the rare event that he (it's nearly always a he) is asked to resign, he gets a 9-figure apology from the company and can immediately acquire a position with similar responsibilities and pay at a different company, if he wants.

    10. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The bin landen raid, Obama was at the controls? Except that the whole thing was orchestrated under the Bush administration, taking years to come to fruition, and it only happened to complete under Obama. As we're seeing now, it's more a miracle he didn't manage to mess that up too.

    11. Re:Really? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why didn't you know? It's your responsibility to know.

      "Don't look at me, I'm just a CEO"

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    12. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either Obama is the most disconnected president in recent history when it comes to the success of his *core legislative agenda* or he's just bullshitting about not knowing there were issues on launch day.

      It's just another lie from Obama on this. He knew about the problems with the website, just like he knew that "You can keep your plan" wasn't true.

      This whole administration is SO not above lying to the people about *anything* that suits their political gain at the time. Obama has maintained this "I didn't know" line for a lot of things. He didn't know about the NSA spying on foreign leaders, he didn't know about Benghazi, he didn't know about the website being a mess or that it wasn't just some "glitches" like he said. Unless he's just plain stupid (and I don't for a second think that's possible) there is no way he can be so unaware of *everything* that he claims surprises him. Maybe he really is just a puppet, but given his tendency to just flat out lie when it suits his political purposes, I'm inclined to just chalk anything he says up to being a lie, until proven otherwise. I suggest you do too.

    13. Re:Really? by najay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      he did mess it up. The identities of Seal Team 6 was exposed and most of them ended up getting killed.

    14. Re:Really? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 2

      Quoting again from the article:

      All told, of the 45 items in which CGI had expressed high confidence at the late August meeting in Baltimore, most were still not ready by the time consumers were supposed to be able to start to buy health plans online through the federal marketplace

      How anyone would think the President is reading web admin status reports is beyond me. He's responsible because he's the President and he puts his staff in place, but I just don't get where this Benghazi II: The Evil Website conspiracy is coming from. Somewhere along the line, people were snowjobbing their superiors on how ready they were. I can imagine no scenario where upper levels of the administration, whose mission statement involves dealing with PR crises, would allows this website fiasco to occur.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    15. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, the legislation has been a massive failure too. They've pushed back the employer mandate, they pushed back the insurance company compliance deadline, companies have begun cutting their full time positions and insurance rates are continuing to skyrocket.

    16. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My inside sources (old military connections) say that SecDef was fed up with the President waffling on authorizing a raid, so SecDef authorized the raid himself, but intentionally didn't tell the President until the choppers had already crossed the border into Pakistan.

    17. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As techies, we know how this goes - these organisational failures happen from the top down and it is the action of a weak, failing manager to try to pass the blame down the chain. We don't stand for it in any other situation; why would we here?

      Of course we're not standing for it here. But, just like in any other situation, nobody gives a shit about what we think. The CEO gets a bonus because shareholders are inbred morons, we get fired, and the press wonders why we're such lazy assholes and demands that we get a job.

    18. Re:Really? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Either Obama is the most disconnected president in recent history when it comes to the success of his *core legislative agenda*

      Does this seem unrealistic to you? It's not like he has experience managing large projects.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    19. Re:Really? by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

      It bothers me that folks are making such a big deal about the website, when it's only a small part of the ACA. A very important small part, yes, but one that can and will eventually be made to work. The other thing that amuses me about the Republican anger over the ACA, is that these millions of purchasers of health insurance policies will be putting their money into companies that are, for the most part, part of the Republican base. I don't understand how anyone in the US can believe that the current healthcare/insurance system is working. Something needs to be done...whether that "something" is the ACA or not, we'll have to wait and see. But the fact remains that ACA is at least an effort to fix the problem.

    20. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What bugged me about that particular "clown" wasn't so much his inattention to troop movements (what does a stick jockey know about infantry tactics, anyway?), but his failure to ask the really tough, detailed questions that would have revealed the vaporous nature of WMD evidence, as well as to take note of all those missing the palettes and palettes of US currency dumped on the tarmac in Baghdad. I don't expect a President to know how to craft an efficient SQL query, but you'd think that we'd at least have read by now some account of the methodical, penetrating questions that should have been asked of the project's managers. The surest cure for the disease of "hand-wavium" that infects most executives in both government and business would be to hold people accountable for these kinds of failures. Sadly the game is rigged, and the deck impossibly stacked, against even the suggestion of that -- so we all wind up standing by and watching another billion or so flushed.

    21. Re:Really? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      To which I would laugh in their face. I have been on a major project that was going badly (not my part thankfully) but as a team lead I had to sit in on meetings with important people including my company's global CEO (we are a global fortune 100 company) and the customer (a very large company) to figure out what was going wrong and how to correct it. Given that healthcare.gov is about an order of magnitude larger than that project was (dollar wise but code wise healthcare.gov is probably substantially smaller) I find it hard to believe that there weren't similar meetings.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    22. Re:Really? by jimbolauski · · Score: 1

      That is exactly my point. The media narrative when good things happen was Obama is in full control and knows what he is doing, when bad things happen the narrative was Obama was not aware of the issue.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    23. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recall some quote about how government is just too big to be able to keep track of it all; its as if he didnt read the job description or exactly what his purpose is.

      If you looked at the news for the 16 prior years, you'd believe that the job of President of the United States of America is a highly paid position of having parties and playing golf. He's doing that much pretty well.

    24. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any other senior manager in the world who said of a failure, "I didn't know," would immediately be asked, "Why didn't you know? It's your responsibility to know."

      Try one few of these for an answer:
      - "You got to help me. I don't know what to do. I can't make decisions. I'm a president!"
      - "I can assure both you and your viewers that there's absolutely no [insert crisis here] whatsoever. Yes, of course. I've heard the same rumor myself"
      - "Why didn't somebody tell me my ass was so big?"

    25. Re:Really? by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      You make it sound as if the deaths of those seals was deliberate. It appears it was not.

      I read up on this and there is no concrete connection between the president outing seal team 6 and the chinook incident. Some rebels shot down a chopper which was responding to a call for backup by the army rangers. There is nothing anywhere that states the rebels knew there were seals on that chopper. So it appears the rebels got lucky and killed a bunch of seals. Also of note is that there is no evidence that any of the seals on board were part of the team who took out bin laden. Maybe there were and maybe there weren't. We will never know.

    26. Re:Really? by ApplePy · · Score: 1

      You make it sound as if the deaths of those seals was deliberate. It appears it was not.

      Unless it was a deliberate effort to prevent said SEAL team from telling a different story than the official one. There could have been a different story considering that some pretty knowledgeable sources have been saying for years that bin Laden died years before the incident.

      Not saying that's what happened in this case, but it's happened before enough times to think it an odd coincidence.

      --
      That I'm right, and you don't like it, doesn't mean I'm a troll.
    27. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    28. Re:Really? by catfood · · Score: 1

      Their helicopter crashed in action in Afghanistan. Do you really think the Taliban fighters singled out that one helicopter because they were keeping track of who was on it?

    29. Re:Really? by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      he did mess it up. The identities of Seal Team 6 was exposed and most of them ended up getting killed.

      That's a pretty big claim to make without offering any proof. Are you referring to the Chinook helicopter crash in 2011, when Taliban fighters fired an RPG at a helicopter chasing another group of Taliban? The crash killed a whole Navy SEAL troop, their biggest loss of life ever, but I fail to see how any of that was a result of the exposing of SEAL identities.

    30. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, for an AC that's not bad: 3/4 correct. There's no actual evidence that full time positions are being cut. I think that's an inevitable outcome, but so far there's been no evidence of it.

  8. The Contempt for the Engineer by glennrrr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the most interesting thought in the article was about the author's observation of contempt between modern managers (in the example in the publishing business) and the engineers who actually create and manage systems. I'm also drawn to how articles written with sources inside the Administration refer to the technical people as 'Technicians' instead of what they probably were 'Senior Software Engineers' or appropriate equivalent title. I certainly don't think of myself as a technician, and I find the term somewhat demeaning somehow.

    1. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could call you an associate.

    2. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      technical associate

    3. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or holistic architectural computeroligist

    4. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by dbIII · · Score: 1

      What does the IEEE or similar call you? How about the people in the example? Maybe these people actually were technicians with engineer just as a HR granted title like a cable TV installation guy, but either way you are correct about the contempt from some non-technical management causing communication problems.

    5. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by bdemchak · · Score: 2

      Quite right. I fight battles of this sort weekly. Top researchers and domain managers believe their systems are built by "programmers" and that the key to their success is to have enough "good" programmers. These researchers/managers are far from stupid, but there's a huge void in their understanding of what it takes to put up real systems. We *need* an epic fail like this to start conversations that enable intelligent people to glimpse and appreciate good development processes and personnel stacks ... and the consequences of benign and willful neglect. We'll have more of these fails until all of this starts to sink in.

    6. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by dwpro · · Score: 1

      Are you certified as an engineer? Until we decide to start making the term mean something, it's empty talk. I'm gearing up to take the certification myself next year.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    7. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by Beeftopia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the most interesting thought in the article was about the author's observation of contempt between modern managers (in the example in the publishing business) and the engineers who actually create and manage systems.

      I know why this is: A vice president of a staffing firm is in my social circle. A group of us were talking about a website idea. The VP and some quasi technical managers assured me that the solution was commoditized - already done before, available off the shelf as components. Nothing new, just need to get qualified people and equipment to plug and play. Very straightforward.

      So, while that is technically true... it is an utterly different and vastly more difficult matter to be able to identify the right people and create an environment where they can obtain the right equipment and room to maneuver. So, while the CTO of Google might be able to snap his fingers and create the website in a few weeks, a staffing company doesn't have access to that specific elite experience, or that development environment.

      Managers want to look at us - programmers, software engineers - as totally fungible, mere factory robots. Identical units which can quickly be obtained off the shelf and who can then implement a solution as long as it's kind of similar to any existing solution. HOWEVER - we're more like doctors and hospitals, where, despite having the same title, the variation in ability and intelligence and tools is quite high. Think about the medical stories you read about where the person goes through doctor after doctor trying to cure a malady, until they find the right doctor. Or where a person has a rare malady and serendipitously finds a doctor researching this issue and obtains a cure. I think this dynamic exists in all professions but it's quite emphasized in programming.

      So, that's why there might be contempt - both sides really don't understand what they're dealing with. Managers looking at people who inexplicably can't just "do it" - they look at programmers like fungible factory robots (I don't say workers because even unskilled labor has variations in ability) turning bolts to put together pre-existing solutions. And programmers thrown into hidebound, designed-to-thwart-change development environments while trying to learn new concepts and put together novel solutions in a designed-to-fail environment.
       

    8. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by Beeftopia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And a quick followup - think about a profession as well researched, as old and rigorous as civil engineering. The engineering of structures. Even in this environment where the concepts are well known, the profession is ancient, snafus happen. There is new metro station in the DC metro area. It is RIFE with problems:

      Silver Spring Transit Center to get new layer of concrete to address construction flaws
      By Bill Turque,September 06, 2013
      Washington Post

      "The $120 million bus and train hub at Georgia Ave. and Colesville Rd. is more than two years behind schedule and tens of millions of dollars over budget. Issues with concrete — including cracks, insufficient thickness and questions about strength in some areas — have played a major role in the delay." -- Washington Post

      I can imagine managers are thinking, "What the hell? How many metro stations are there in this region? In this country?? There's no new concepts here! You people all have P.E's! The processes for design are totally standardized! How could this possibly happen?"

    9. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      Are you certified as an engineer?

      You mean to say licensed. Regarding terms, "license" means a government grant for one to perform work. "Certified" means have passed qualifications usually by a non-profit non-legislative body. i.e. doctors need a license to practice, certificate from Microsoft shows you are knowledgable about a specific software (ok there are many pros and cons on this one). Regarding "Engineer" you need to be licensed to practice engineering. In fact you can't call yourself an engineer unless you are licensed. But then, i.e. Silicon Valley, who cares as there's lots of engineers that do engineering. Except for civil engineering, they are very critical and demanding on being licensed.

      One thing about being licensed if you screw up, people can contact Dept of Consumer Affairs and make a fuss. They also can find out where you are so before you pound that PE stamp on those drawings, you are probably going to be sure it is all been performed above minimum competency.

      But it all comes down to what can you do? Are you competent? Do you know your stuff? Can you address problems to management or the customer so it doesn't end up as surprise disaster? Or are you simply stuck in a Dilbert situation which sounds like many of the programmers were in this healthcare.gov website.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    10. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by dwpro · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, I should say licensed. My point is that we "engineers" complain about lack of respect, lack of competency, etc, but don't seem to be embracing an established framework for accountability and credibility.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    11. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Managers want to look at us - programmers, software engineers - as totally fungible, mere factory robots.

      They have the same attitude towards accountants, secretaries, anyone who works on an assembly line, salespeople, HR reps, etc. There's fundamental contempt in the business world for people who actually produce stuff, like they're somehow deficient or inferior to those who go around reprioritizing action items to create synergies in the digital marketplace. That contempt can even spread towards relatively high-status people who produce stuff e.g. how big media companies treat musicians or actors.

      From what I've seen so far, the cause of this is that management typically has gone to business school, and what they learn in business school is precisely to treat employees as replaceable components of a system. It's even in the language they use: "Personnel" became "Human Resources", making it clear that instead of flesh-and-blood humans like the managers themselves, rank-and-file employees were tools to be used up and then discarded.

      I'd consider loading these folks up on a "B" Ark ship, except that I'm reasonably certain that if we removed one set of parasites another set would take over just as assuredly.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    12. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Simple. Until you dig it up you don't know what's underground. Engineers can design only for what they know about.

      Almost all civil engineering cost overruns can be traced to four categories, unknown conditions (typically soils which don't provide the strengths assumed by the designers), errors during construction (such as failing to tie rebar together), errors or omissions by the engineers or client directed changes.

      You will find a LOT of government overruns are caused by the government changing it's mind during the design. These changes are often significant and require a large amount of rework. Anyone that's ever contracted with government can tell you that.

    13. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by davide+marney · · Score: 1

      And the reason why the government changes it's mind so often is because the leadership changes. In the case of Obamacare, apparently the leadership was reported spread across multiple agencies to lower the attack profile from Republicans, so it was already behind the eight-ball.

      --
      "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    14. Re:The Contempt for the Engineer by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      The ultimate goal of any manager is two folder. 1: Streamline and flow-chart out the workflow so it can be outsourced to a bunch of muppets. 2: Churn-and-burn!

      Or put it another way. You modify your business so that people can be replaced with another cheap replaceable cog.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  9. Hope is not an engineering methodology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Subject pretty much says it, both the legistlation and implementing regulations were hope-based....

    1. Re:Hope is not an engineering methodology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've worked on many projects where "hope" was the primary mode of operation. I've been at the "And a miracle happens here" in the gnatt chart a number of times, where management had hoped that we would somehow make it happen, despite my assurances that miracles rarely do.

      It is not that hard to know well in advance that a project will be late, but you have to be honest with yourself and not fudge your status reports to "stay on schedule" because management doesn't like to hear it. I've been yelled at, cursed at and even fired for being honest about schedules and status, but over the years I've rarely been off by more than 10% my initial estimates either way.

      So, where you are right, hope is not a valid methodology, it is a standard mode of operation, especially for those who don't carefully think a project though before they start. Folks who do not think and plan, are hoping they get it right or don't make too many mistakes that they have to rework. And where "Hope springs eternal" it doesn't a successful design or implementation plan make, usually. I say usually, because it is *possible* for an unlimited number of monkeys and typewriters to type "War and Peace" it's just not what normally happens.

  10. Step 1, open up the bidding process completely by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    CGI was selected in part because they were one of only a handful of companies that got on the task order from DHHS that covered this and many other big CMS contracts. This system is designed to make it extremely difficult to just start a business and put out a bid. The justifications for it are very flimsy and center around things like making sure that some fly-by-night company doesn't get the contract/screening out junk bids. Poblem is, they don't actually work. In many cases, they just let the "primes" that win the slots act as funnels for the actual work done by subcontracts which just adds to the cost of the contract.

    Another thing, if the reddit thread on this was correct, CMS needs to do what the DoD increasingly does with overtime which is to scrutinize or reject invoices with more than 80 hours per two weeks per employee unless the overtime was either authorized or can be explained in reasonable terms. Overworked government contractors don't get rich; their employers do at the expense of the employee and government. One thing often left unappreciated by the general public is that unpaid overtime is literally stealing employment from the employee because a salaried employee is only authorized to bill so many hours to a contract during a period of performance.

    1. Re:Step 1, open up the bidding process completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, this system was set up by knee-jerk reactions of congress to previous failures. It's not designed to prevent small business from putting in a bid; that's just the nature of beauracracy. In fact, the federal acquisition regulations include small-business set asides and special rules to include small business, women owned businesses, minority owned businesses and veteran owned businesses. However, a project of this magnitude requires a "responsive bidder" who has experience with all of the systems that will be touched and certification to some CMMI level (think ISO 9001 for federal software contracts). Given the complexities of the acquisition system, it would have taken 2 years to initiate a new contract, hence adding a task order to a BOA (basic ordering agreement) or IDIQ (indifinite delivery, indefinite quantity) contract.

      The system did work, however, in that manner which it was most specifically designed for; to distribute blame away from any one person.

    2. Re:Step 1, open up the bidding process completely by Luthair · · Score: 1

      If the government is paying by the hour the entire project should be handled in house so they maintain managerial control.

    3. Re:Step 1, open up the bidding process completely by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      One thing often left unappreciated by the general public is that unpaid overtime is literally stealing employment from the employee because a salaried employee is only authorized to bill so many hours to a contract during a period of performance.

      Unpaid overtime is ALWAYS stealing from the employee, whether the employee is government, a contractor, or private sector. The employee agreed to work 40 hours for X amount of compensation. If the employee is working more than that, they deserve to be compensated. if they are working less than that, they deserve to have their pay reduced.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    4. Re:Step 1, open up the bidding process completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who contracts for the government, generally we're individually responsible for making sure we do not exceed billable hours.

      Its POSSIBLE that folks are working 160 hours and only getting paid for 80, but if that happens more than once its sort of your fault.

    5. Re:Step 1, open up the bidding process completely by Bigby · · Score: 1

      If that is the way your pay is structured. When it is, I see most employees charging 40 hrs regardless of whether they worked 36 or 44 hours. It is disheartening. Not to mention it completely screws up the metrics.

      When a manager tells me to charge 40 when I work 48, I refuse. If they want to hit their budget/numbers, then I usually work in a paid day off, because they can't stomach reporting the actual numbers. I had one that tried to force me. I took it to the ethics department. It was squashed immediately.

  11. If Only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If only there was this much scrutiny and post-mortem analysis over other government failures such as, oh, I don't know, the multi-BILLION dollar failure joint strike force fighter that nobody wants (other than private contractors who are making billions).

    Thank gawd, however, that we have this eagle eyed scrutiny over a website that's a few months over deadline and a few million over budget.

    1. Re:If Only... by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      Which political party has been backing *that* one? . . . Oh, wait, both, because the parts are made in all 50 states.

  12. Following the Will of Their Voters by glennrrr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that the Members of the House who were newly elected in 2010 after the ACA, resulting in the GOP retaking the House, and re-elected in 2012 are rightfully following what the people in their districts want them to do: oppose the ACA. There are a handful of districts which voted for both Obama and a Republican Member of Congress, but there aren't many, and those few are pretty squishy about what to do. My own Congressman came back into Congress in 2010 (he had been unseated in 2008) and then defeated in 2012 by a Democrat; he wasn't following the will of the voters who showed up on election day 2012, other places, the story is different.

    1. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that most Americans can be found in the middle of the two extremes (far-left/far-right) but our political system is set up to reward those who pander to the extremes (Gerrymandering + closed primaries in most states), so we wind up with this system that swings back and forth between the two, rarely settling in the middle where most of the electorate lies. Divided Government used to bring outcomes in the middle (Reagan/O'Neil, and Clinton/Gingrich) but now it just seems to bring grandstanding and stalling (Bush/Pelosi, Obama/Boehner), as each side waits to beat the other in the next election, while kicking the serious issues of the day down the road, to be dealt with after they have a "mandate" from the voters. Each side misreads the smallest win as a "mandate" for their platform, ignoring the fact that 49.9% of the country voted the other way. BHO's "mandate" in 2008 can be boiled down to three words: "Don't be GWB", not "Dust off every Progressive idea that's been on the bookshelf since the 60s." Similarly, John Boehner's "mandate" in 2010 was "Don't be Nancy Pelosi", not "Give the keys to the Tea Party."

      There are some benefits to the two party system in the United States, compare the (relative) stability of our system to some Parliamentary Democracies, but we're in pretty big trouble if we can't take the two parties back from their respective extremes. I'm not sure how this happens, when each party keeps bleeding elder statesmen, House primaries are dominated by rabid partisans living in echo chambers, and even the Senate (where gerrymandering is a non-issue) looks to be on a downward spiral wherein statesmen are out and partisan hacks are in.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by glennrrr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Boehner cannot be Speaker without the Tea Party (libertarian) members of his caucus. How exactly do you expect him to make them vote for policies which would rightfully get them primaried in the next election? The ACA has something like 87% disapproval amongst registered Republicans, and the other 13% probably don't recognize that ACA means ObamaCare. There are lots of things that the parties can negotiate upon, and the ACA has already been modified several times, but the ongoing existence of the ACA is not one of them.
      Boehner apparently wants to do something bipartisan with immigration reform, but that's a hard needle to thread given the Democrats mainly support it to add dependent dependable voters and the Republican base don't like the idea of becoming more like Mexico.

    3. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by mlts · · Score: 2

      You see exactly this in the pre-primary campagins that are starting right now in the US. During these, you will read some very extreme political platforms, and after that mess is over, then both sides try to move to the middle to pretend to be mainstream.

      With all the sharp, strong, extreme talk, it is hard to state a simple, moderate platform that actually might address issues than kick them down the road.

    4. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      would rightfully get them primaried in the next election?

      And therein lies the problem. Primary elections are the "true" election in most Congressional districts (Democrat and Republican), thanks to gerrymandering. Primary elections are universally low turnout affairs that are dominated by the true believers, the types that get all of their news from MSNBC or Fox, who are least inclined to seek accommodation with the other side. The consequence of this is that we end up with hyper-partisan hacks that don't even represent the mainstream of their gerrymandered district, much less the country as a whole.

      I'm not blaming the GOP, the exact same thing happens in gerrymandered blue districts. Nancy Pelosi doesn't represent the mainstream of the Democratic party, much less the United States, yet she is the voice of the Democrats in the house.

      I don't know what the solution is. Some will argue that we need a third party, but that's no guarantee of a different result. Indeed, it makes it possible for the same hyper-partisan hacks to win as before, only now they'll have won with 40% of the vote instead of 50.1%. My hometown (Binghamton, NY) ended up with a left-wing asshole as Mayor, who won two three-way elections, and pushed his asinine left-wing agenda despite 60% of the city voting against him. (Hint for Matthew Ryan if your egotistical self finds this post with a Google search: People don't vote for Mayor to make statements about the Iraq War, they vote for him to fix the fucking potholes, keep the parks clean, and to try and attract employers to the area)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While interesting, it's missing the bigger point. Look to what working couples have agreed on, and what non working couples disagree on. There is a definite trend, and not for the betterment of the average citizen. To believe that all of the political happenings are accidental is asinine. These people make a lot of money doing what they do, and have consultants that are paid to tell them what to eat so their farts don't smell. Look past the hand waiving, and you can find an agenda.

    6. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by microbox · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'm not blaming the GOP, the exact same thing happens in gerrymandered blue districts.

      You should. It is a stated goal of GOP leadership to destroy government and then claim it doesn't work. It is a deeply cynical move. The source is a senior 30 year GOP insider who started during the Reagan years.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    7. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thank you, for providing the MSNBC point of view, which has immeasurably enhanced the dialogue, and for completely missing the point....

      Please complete the picture by bringing one of your Fox News watching friends (assuming you keep company with those disagree with you politically) to the conversation.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but our political system is set up to reward those who pander to the extremes (Gerrymandering + closed primaries in most states)

      Explain this to me then: Why is it that the political stars of the Republican Party are the extremists (e.g. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz) while the political stars of the Democratic Party are usually centrists (e.g. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama)? Even Elizabeth Warren, to some degree a left-wing standard-bearer, has mostly just been pushing relentlessly for white-collar criminals to be tried for their crimes. Extreme liberal candidates with ideas like "Hey, let's make hedge fund managers pay the same tax rate as athletes who make less money" rarely even make it into the primaries.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    9. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nancy Pelosi doesn't represent the mainstream of the Democratic party, much less the United States, yet she is the voice of the Democrats in the house.

      That's cute. You think Nancy Pelosi is an out of touch extremist or something? That might be the way the extreme right-wing wants to portray her, but then they call Obama a Kenyan Muslim Socialist.

    10. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by glennrrr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because you think Barack Obama is a centrist and Rand Paul isn't. That pretty much explains it for me. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

    11. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Barack Obama is not a Centrist in the American political spectrum. He might be when compared to the left-wing parties of Europe, but when looked at through an American political compass he falls to the left. In fact, he beat someone closer to the Center than him (Hillary) during the 2008 primaries, almost solely on the basis of his opposition to the Iraq War, a classical left vs. center issue. Bill Clinton didn't start out a Centrist either (though he never as far to the left as BHO), in terms of policy or platform, that change was forced on him after the 1994 mid-terms. To his credit he actually listened to the electorate, which is more than you say about BHO and Nancy Pelosi, who rammed the ACA down the throats of the American public after a Republican managed to win a Senate Seat in the bluest of the blue states while running against it.

      I'll defer comment on Ted Cruz because I know little about him. As far as Rand Paul goes, I'm not certain I'd qualify him as an 'extremist', on a lot of issues he's managed to figure out the pulse of mainstream America (polling against our interventionist foreign policy commands majorities of both parties and Independents, but non-interventionism has scant support among the elected officials in either party). To answer your question though, I think he's a household name for the same reason Charles Schumer is. He's got a good PR operation, the media loves to cover him, and he never turns down the opportunity to be in front of a camera.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by microbox · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Thank you, for providing the MSNBC point of view, which has immeasurably enhanced the dialogue, and for completely missing the point....

      read the article. It is not an MSNBC view. It is the view of a 30 year senior GOP insider.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    13. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think Nancy Pelosi is an out of touch extremist or something?

      Nancy Pelosi is elected by a constituency which is about as far from the political mainstream as is possible in the U.S. No political pundit of any political persuasion would characterize the politics of San Francisco as "mainstream".

      Remember, at one point during the cramming through of a sweeping law on healthcare ins., Nancy Pelosi declared she would "deem" the Senate version of the law to have passed, essentially eliminating the other members of the House from participation in the passing of a law which restructures all of U.S. society. It was only after Pelosi was threatened with a legal challenge to her unconstitutional actions that she relented.

    14. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by fredrated · · Score: 1

      Thank you for providing the point of view from knee-jerkville.

    15. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by mcgrew · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      How is Rand Paul in any way whatever a centrist?? You can't get much father to the right without goose stepping.

    16. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You mean the article that refers to a political party with tens of millions of Americans as a "cult"? That article?

      Clearly a source that's interested in elevating the dialogue.... thank you for twice missing the point.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    17. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by ewieling · · Score: 1

      In my view Obama takes into account a wide range of viewpoints and pushes a policy which tries be acceptable to the maximum number of people. What he utterly and totally fails to realize this doesn't work. The Republicans don't want this. They want to fight for their views and go back to their districts and tell the voters "it was a hard fight, we lost on some points and we won on some points, but we still got the best of those socialist hippies".

      --
      I really shouldn't have used someone else's email address for this account.
    18. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Explain this to me then: Why is it that the political stars of the Republican Party are the extremists (e.g. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz) while the political stars of the Democratic Party are usually centrists (e.g. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama)?

      I think you need to consider the context. The last 14 years have seen extreme partisanship swing from the right then back to the left, with little in the way of compromise. It shouldn't come as a surprise that minority party uses extremists to balance out the moderately left-of-center majority.

    19. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't get much father to the right without goose stepping.

      Yeah, that's a helpful analogy, which won't inflame passions one bit, nor ruin what was a relatively respectful discussion. Way to go!

    20. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by neoritter · · Score: 1

      Are you forgetting Chris Christie?

    21. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      The reason I don't consider Rand Paui a centrist is that Rand Paul doesn't consider himself a centrist, and that conservative organizations such as the Club for Growth and the American Conservative Union both consider him among the most conservative people in the Senate.

      If Obama had been an extremist, instead of a centrist, the Affordable Care Act would have started with the idea of creating a national public health care system similar to what has worked well in numerous other countries. In fact, he started with an idea from a conservative think tank and implemented by a Republican governor. He even defended the ACA against attacks from actual liberal extremists in Congress like Dennis Kucinich who were arguing that the ACA didn't even come close to going far enough.

      We've had some liberal extremists over the years, Lyndon Johnson and Franklin Roosevelt being the most notable examples. Barack Obama is nothing like them, and it shows in his policies.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    22. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by microbox · · Score: 1

      Haha, there is substantive criticism from an insider's perspective, and name-calling has been backed up said criticisms. But you probably didn't get very far did you.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    23. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you think Barack Obama is a centrist and Rand Paul isn't. That pretty much explains it for me. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

      I gather that your perspective is so far to the right that you can't even see how much room there is to the left of Obama.

    24. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by GodInHell · · Score: 1

      I think that most Americans can be found in the middle of the two extremes (far-left/far-right) but our political system is set up to reward those who pander to the extremes (Gerrymandering + closed primaries in most states), so we wind up with this system that swings back and forth between the two, rarely settling in the middle where most of the electorate lies.

      I hate that left/right division - the reason most people come down "in the middle" is that there's no way to really identify an individual on that spectrum that is consistent - most people have opinions on both sides - sometimes very extremely. So -- for example -- you may be for legalisation of all drugs always, and think you're a libertarian, but hate banks and want them strictly regulated. I know this person - he doesn't see a conflict. Or, you could be hard-line anti-abortion and also pro-union - where the fuck does that put you? (other than old-school Irish Catholic - i.e. deeply in the Democratic party).

    25. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      No, I stopped reading at "cult". Your "insider" picked the wrong media to spill his guts to if he cared about winning people like me over. I'm about elevating the dialogue, which means we don't use pejorative words like "cult" to describe political parties that claim tens of millions of our fellow citizens as members. I tuned him out with the same ease that I tune out Ann Coulter and Keith Olbermann.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    26. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be a mistake to label the Tea Party libertarian. Many of the people involved are racist Christianist authoritarians. It was hard not to notice the right-wing nutjobs embracing libertarianism only when the government stopped supporting their bigotries and superstitions.

    27. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does that make sense when Fox lies constantly and their viewers internalize the nonsense. You're trying to pitch a fake middle-ground between the reality based community and the people who continue to watch the hilariously awful Fox News.

    28. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because you think Barack Obama is a centrist and Rand Paul isn't. That pretty much explains it for me. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

      Since the downfall of Nixon the Republican Party has been increasingly controlled by the wing that lost favor when Eisenhower decided to run in 1952. They are essentially the same as the Coolidge/Hover/Taft Republicans that steered us into the Great Depression and opposed Roosevelt and Truman as a matter of policy on virtually every issue.

    29. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by microbox · · Score: 0

      Your "insider" picked the wrong media to spill his guts to if he cared about winning people like me over.

      I'm a non-partisan political junkie -- a strongly pro-science slightly libertarian academic. If some democrat apostate published a book about the Dem "cult", then I'd consume it like candy... because it _would_ be candy for me. I just find the madness fascinating.

      But people like you cannot be won over. The GOP is accruing a long is of apostates, from Frum, to Bartlett, to Lofgren. You're not interested in what they have to say, because it hurts your delicate ears. So cult seem appropriate enough.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    30. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Interesting that you seem to assume I'm a member of the GOP, when I never used the word "we" to refer to them. You do get some points though, the words you choose to describe yourself are words that I might have chosen to describe my own belief structure.

      In any case, apostates don't interest me that much, be they recovering Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc. There's a quote that comes to mind, which seems very appropriate in this context: "No one is more righteous than the fallen man reformed."

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    31. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by microbox · · Score: 1

      apostates don't interest me that much,

      Then you're missing one of the most interesting aspect of how groups construct beliefs... and their relationship to society and politics.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    32. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      The two major parties used to be collections of disparate interests that came together to win elections, rather than classical left/right-wingers. If you nibble around the edges you can find that this still holds true with a few issues (abortion and the 2nd Amendment are good examples), but by and large the trend has been for the elected officials in each party to pander to the left or right on all the issues, lest they alienate the primary electorate and find themselves out of a job.

      Primary Elections are dominated by the true believers, while General Elections require massive amounts of cash, cash the candidates are most likely to obtain from the aforementioned true believers, so is it any surprise that they cater to them once they win office? Rinse and repeat, election after election.

      Joe Q. Public, i.e., the "most" people you're referring to, doesn't religiously follow politics. He doesn't watch MSNBC or Fox, or read Daily Kos or Red State. He has a belief structure that might favor one party over the other, but he doesn't tune into the process until a few weeks before the General Election, at which point it's really a beauty contest in the vast majority of House districts. Joe Q. Public essentially picks the side that he thinks is going to do the least damage, then prays the pendulum doesn't whack him in the head as it swings from left to right and back again.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    33. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Explain this to me then: Why is it that the political stars of the Republican Party are the extremists (e.g. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz) while the political stars of the Democratic Party are usually centrists (e.g. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama)?

      How are Rand Paul and Ted Cruz, who have yet to run for president, political "stars" comparable to Clinton and Obama, bit 2-term presidents? A better comparison would be to Republican stars Bush, McCain and Romney (you know, winners of the last four Republican presidential tickets). Let's see, Bush campaigned as a "compassionate conservative". McCain was a left-wing media darling until he actually ran for president. Romney was elected governor in a staunchly Democratic state, Massachusetts. These are hardly the Republican party's extremists.

    34. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by glennrrr · · Score: 1

      My view is that he pushed for a system that would get zero defections in the Senate Democratic caucus, barely, and wasn't able to come up with a compromise that would get so much as Olympia Snowe for goodness sake. If you can't get Olympia Snowe to be bipartisan you aren't trying. I can assure you if he'd compromised the point that he got Senator Snowe, he'd have ended up with a much better, if less grandiose bill, but he wanted the whole enchilada. Well he did have the least compromising voting record in the Senate when he was there and 'he won' so I guess it's to be expected.

    35. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, compared to the 'center' of the general population, Obama is in the authoritarian-right wing quadrant:
      http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

      Just because you're so far that you believe it when Fox tells you that Obama is an extremist liberal doesn't make it true. And some of us are aware of the fact that he and Paul are both conservatives separated by small degrees of whether they want national or state level authoritarian control of our privacy and "rights".

    36. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah the democrats *never* do stupid shit...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina%27s_12th_congressional_district

      For many of the people in both parties the name on the plate is just which way to say things.

      If you want to see it put in humorous form http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104114

      Neither side gives a damn about us. They are interested in what perks they get and how to hold onto that power. You are feeding into it by picking your team (yeah team!).

      If you somehow think this is new you are also dreaming. Go Whigs!

    37. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what the solution is. Some will argue that we need a third party, but that's no guarantee of a different result. Indeed, it makes it possible for the same hyper-partisan hacks to win as before, only now they'll have won with 40% of the vote instead of 50.1%. My hometown (Binghamton, NY) ended up with a left-wing asshole as Mayor, who won two three-way elections, and pushed his asinine left-wing agenda despite 60% of the city voting against him. (Hint for Matthew Ryan if your egotistical self finds this post with a Google search: People don't vote for Mayor to make statements about the Iraq War, they vote for him to fix the fucking potholes, keep the parks clean, and to try and attract employers to the area)

      I suspect the solution is to move to either single transferable vote or instant-runoff voting (they're the same thing if electing only one position) for election of all government officers. This allows third parties to have genuine effect and if the major parties are doing things guaranteed to screw things up, they won't be a major party much longer. This would also remove the power of extremists. My reasoning is winner takes all means you're going to have two parties (Duverger's law) and primary elections ensure extremists have a substantial amount of power (sort of like the Hastert rule).

    38. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      "No one is more righteous than the fallen man reformed."

      "Born again" maybe.

    39. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by sphealey · · Score: 1

      = = = Boehner cannot be Speaker without the Tea Party (libertarian) members of his caucus. = = =

      Technically the Speaker of the House serves the entire House, Congress, and Nation, not just his personal political party; the House Majority Leader serves the majority political party. The Speakership hasn't operated that way since before the Civil War, but Boehner always has the option of working with the Minority Leader to obtain a majority of votes to pass anything that truly needs to be passed. Which is what he did with the debt ceiling, actually, once the inability of certain members of his own caucus to count became apparent.

      sPh

    40. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my view Obama takes into account a wide range of viewpoints and pushes a policy which tries be acceptable to the maximum number of people.

      Then you haven't been paying attention during the entire Obama administration. Obama has never made any effort to work with his political opponents on any issue. Ignore his occasional platitudes insincerely delivered in speeches. Obama's true opponents think that govt is too big and too intrusive. Obama always, always promotes increased govt interference, increased taxation, increased vote buying with tax dollars. He never comprises on anything and he sure as hell doesn't care about pushing policies that the maximum number of people support. Do most Americans want govt-run healthcare? No. Did most Americans want the entire health ins. industry disrupted so that they would lose the policies that they currently held? No. Do most Americans want the definition of marriage changed? No. Did most Americans want gays to serve openly in the military? No. Do most Americans want amnesty given to illegal aliens? No. Do most Americans want tax dollars handed out to banks, auto companies, "green" companies, ins. companies and other corporate friends of Obama? No, no, no, no, a million times no. Do most Americans want the increased domestic surveillance that has taken place under Obama (Yes, I know that the rise of police state tendencies has bi-partisan origins.)? No. Do most Americans want a civilian security force that is 'as powerful, large and well-funded as the US military' as Obama has declared that he wants? No. I could go on, but you should get the point.

      You need to question the talking points dispensed by the news sources that you listen to, eric. The strongest opposition to Obama is based on real concerns about political and economic freedom, not some partisan desire to get "the best of those socialist hippies". Statism, however you label it (socialism, communism, fascism, democratic socialism, progressivism, liberalism, etc.), is destroying Europe and Obama, when he isn't stepping all over the rule of law by ruling by decree, is driving the US over the same cliff that Europe has already gone over. Widespread civil unrest is in the near future for Europe. European govts have been buying riot gear and training hoards of new police in preparation. Why would the US want to imitate the failures of Europe? As Thatcher noted, 'socialism is great until you run out of other people's money to spend'. What she didn't point out is that when the taxpayer handouts dry up, people will retaliate violently in frustration. There have already been some cases of rioting resulting in deaths in Greece, but violence and unrest will eventually spread throughout Western Europe. It's easy to believe that immigrants will bear the brunt of much of the upheaval. In Europe, as in the US, the citizenry has never supported the importation of large numbers of new clients for the welfare state that the political classes have been pushing for.

    41. Re:Following the Will of Their Voters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the article that refers to a political party with tens of millions of Americans as a "cult"? That article?

      What proportion of those people are members because they're true believers in the party's stated goals, and what proportion are members because being able to vote in primaries is the best way of getting political representatives who are closer to their own ideals (as by the time the popularity contest of the final election comes around they've basically already lost)? I know plenty of people who would consider themselves centrists or even progressives who are GOP members for just this purpose. What proportion of their membership does this account for? I don't think anybody can tell, but it's significant.

  13. article in a single sentence by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    when non-engineers that dont understand technology but make engineering decisions, shit like this happens.

    shocker.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:article in a single sentence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Further, when engineering decisions are made for POLITICAL reasons you get failure more often than not.

      What I find shocking is that anybody expected anything BUT failure..

  14. Interpreting "X is Not an Option" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you hear "X is not an option", for some X, you should understand it as "X is a foregone conclusion". Here are some examples:

    Bankruptcy is not an option for General Motors.
    Defaulting on the government's obligations is not an option.

    You can make up your own examples. It is easy.

    1. Re:Interpreting "X is Not an Option" by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      If you want X to be understood as Y, then just say Y!

      That's not rocket science...

      --
      bickerdyke
  15. Not Just in Gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This issue of only reporting good news upwards is prevalent in *many* places, not just in the Federal government. I don't understand how it happens, but there has to be a "don't fire the messenger" culture where delays, bugs, issues, are all handled in stride and the project stakeholders are getting good information during the entire project. I am involved in plenty of projects where this doesn't happen, though, and everyone nods politely while someone reports that something IMPOSSIBLE to complete is being reported as "slightly behind, but we'll make it up...somehow".

    1. Re:Not Just in Gov by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Warning signs for that culture include:

      "The chinese have the same word for risk as they do have for opportunity",
      "With that attidude of seeing only problems we never would have gotten a man to the moon",
      "I need visionarys, not objection raisers",
      "If you are not with my vision, you are agains us",
      and actually understanding Dilbert cartoons.

      --
      bickerdyke
  16. Time for change by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

    The task was simple. Make a friggin website that takes user input and spits out insurance options. If this happened where I work, they'd fire the whole lot without question. Probably enact some kind of legal investigation as to where all the money went too.

    If Congress can't handle a simple friggin website project, it's time to clean house and Enact term limits. Restructure the entire congressional seating process, and give people more control over who's buying the laws for us. It's time to change that whole mess.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:Time for change by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1, Interesting

      you make it sound simple.

      this not a matter of 'read(a); print(a);'

      the amount of crap in the law and all the rules and exceptions (not to mention per-state stuff) makes this nearly unimplementable.

      its no surprise that when you have thousands of pages of rules to implement, you will have issues and bugs.

      blame the republicans, again; they littered the law with so many porkbarrel exceptions for their own people that we could not get a clean law in place. benefits for the insurance companies cluttered up the works much more than they should have.

      a single payer system would have been simpler and better for us but the republicans kept sayins "but, but, but, SOCIALISM!" and so they got what they wanted: a piece of shit law that just barely delivers anything to The People (for who it was all intended, btw).

      amazon as fought against paying state taxes due to complexity for years and years and they are a well-known software company with a mostly can-do attitude and even they were afraid of all the work involved in the tax system. the healthcare system is as bad or even worse, in its implementation.

      its no wonder it failed. it failed because it was designed and voted on by committees who, half wanted to help people and half wanted to sabotage anything to do with obama.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Time for change by Salo2112 · · Score: 1
      Evidently, you are unfamiliar with our form of government: this project was the responsibility, solely, of the executive branch, and the President is already limited to two terms. Congress was not a part of the failed implementation.

      The task was simple. Make a friggin website that takes user input and spits out insurance options. If this happened where I work, they'd fire the whole lot without question. Probably enact some kind of legal investigation as to where all the money went too.

      If Congress can't handle a simple friggin website project, it's time to clean house and Enact term limits. Restructure the entire congressional seating process, and give people more control over who's buying the laws for us. It's time to change that whole mess.

    3. Re:Time for change by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Clearly you have no idea what's involved in the website and what the major challenges were.

      Read the "war room" notes. There's way more moving parts that trying to figure out where to put the DIV tags on a "simple friggin website project."

      http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/LMI-Meeting-Notes-October-2013.pdf

      While it should have been completed on time and on budget (shouldn't everything?), their primary challenges were connections with the vendors and providers - getting Experian data in correctly, that sort of thing.

      Reading the provider data is trivial -- heck, there's websites that let you browse plans now. It's interfacing everything together that's challenging. [Obviously.]

    4. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you make it sound simple.

      this not a matter of 'read(a); print(a);'

      the amount of crap in the law and all the rules and exceptions (not to mention per-state stuff) makes this nearly unimplementable.

      Unimplementable (sic), huh?

      The law is complex, but at the end of the day, it is a website. The lack of available and proven software solutions was not the reason this project failed initially.

    5. Re:Time for change by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      blame the republicans, again

      And this folks, is how you can recognize people who are hopelessly partisan. "It couldn't possibly be my guys, we must blame the other team even though not one of them voted for it."
      You need to take your blinders off, man.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the amount of crap in the law and all the rules...

      If you can write it down on paper as law, you can write down as a program that implements it. Look at the tax code.

      amazon as fought against paying state taxes due to complexity

      No. The have fought against paying taxes to undercut local prices *and* so they are not undercut by 3rd party online retailer that would not be required to collect said taxes.

      its no wonder it failed. it failed because it was designed and voted on by committees who, half wanted to help people and half wanted to sabotage anything to do with obama.

      The first half of your statement does not imply the second. Anything designed by a committee that includes different disciplines is going to have lots of compromises that have nothing to do with technical merits. And that is the reason most projects designed by committees can be terrible.

    7. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      blame the republicans

      Blame the republicans? How many of them voted for this? Oh, right... Not that I really support them, but how exactly can you blame them when none of them voted for it?

      amazon as fought against paying state taxes due to complexity for years and years and they are a well-known software company with a mostly can-do attitude and even they were afraid of all the work involved in the tax system

      If you actually think Amazon's reasons for fighting state sales tax was because of the complexity of implementing it, you are even dumber than I thought.

      Nobody is saying this wasn't a complex project, it was a very complex project. Maybe too complex. Maybe complex enough that we should have let each state decide if they wanted to provide healthcare to it's citizens and set up that system themselves... Oh, right, nothing was stopping them.

      And yeah, maybe a nation-wide single payer system could be the answer... But if you want that you had better do it with a constitutional amendment. And good luck doing that because GUESS WHAT? The populace doesn't want it! Imagine that.

    8. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's impossible to build a complex website, and it's all the Republican's fault!

      Mrs. Pelosi, it's time to get off the internet and back to your handlers.

    9. Re:Time for change by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      What does handling a website project have to do with term limits? Or even Congress? Someone hired a CEO, who hired managers, who hired contracting firms, who hired staff, and it's turtles all the way down.

      By the way, what do YOU do for a living? Should YOU have term limits? Or do YOU see - and sell - your experience and expertise as a positive? If I'm going in for surgery, I want a doctor who's done this plenty of times, not a new guy who got his spot because the experienced guy's term was up.

    10. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love it when republicans get blamed even though not one of them voted for this POS legislation. You must forget history fast, or have selective memory. The Democrats passed it all by themselves, without any help from the Republicans and I would even say against the will of the Republicans and a very large portion of the public screaming against it in Town Hall meetings.

    11. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The task was simple. Make a friggin website that takes user input and spits out insurance options.

      Google.com: Friggin website that takes user input and spits out search results.

      Think you and your team could do it (since makin friggin websites is so simple)?

    12. Re:Time for change by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      blame the republicans

      Strangely I remember no republican amendments being added to the bill and no republicans voting for it. I do remember various amendments to get other democrats to vote for it but the majority ignored anything the minority had to say on the bill (some with good reason, others seemingly out of spite). Granted after it became law and after the republicans retook the house they have tried to defund, repeal, or modify the ACA but those have always been shot down in the senate. So how is anything with the implementation of this law or the website republicans fault?

      --
      Time to offend someone
    13. Re:Time for change by k2r · · Score: 1

      > The task was simple. Make a friggin website that takes user input and spits out insurance options.
      > If this happened where I work, they'd fire the whole lot without question.

      The task was complex because it involved a huge pile of laws, partisanship and legacy systems.

      An essential step to avoid failing is firing people with your sentiment.

    14. Re:Time for change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you "remember no republican amendments being added to the bill", then you weren't paying attention. The entire thing started as an exact copy of a Republican-championed bill by the Heritage Foundation. It then went through *months* of 'compromises' by the Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress, constantly giving up bits and pieces of protections for us 'common folk' in exchange for nebulous promises to pass it.

      Then it passed a Republican controlled House (demonstrating the lie of "no republicans voting for it").

      The ACA is a version of the Republican-championed health care reform that Bush *claimed* to want to pass (but couldn't actually be bothered to work on) while he was in office, ripped to shreds by a Republican party which has been eviscerated from within by an irrational sub-group (the TEA Party).

    15. Re:Time for change by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, don't take my previous comment to mean I disagree with your other point. The law is tough, and implementing the exchange website is a monster of a task; you are right.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    16. Re:Time for change by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Wow, the ignorant moderating the ignorant up.

      If Congress can't handle a simple friggin website project, it's time to clean house and Enact term limits.

      1. Congress doesn't build the web site, that's the Executive Branch's job
      2. The President's term is already limited
      3. My web site is a "simple friggin website project" but the ACA site is not. It has to pull data from many different databases in different agencies and private insurance companies, and feed the data to the states' exchanges. And it has to be able to handle hundreds of thousands of users at once.

      No way is it a "simple website".

    17. Re:Time for change by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      a single payer system would have been simpler and better for us but the republicans kept sayins "but, but, but, SOCIALISM!" and so they got what they wanted

      Uh, it was the Democrats that killed single-payer. Not enough Democrats supported it, so it was scrapped to ensure Democratic unity.

    18. Re:Time for change by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      If you actually think Amazon's reasons for fighting state sales tax was because of the complexity of implementing it, you are even dumber than I thought.

      It is ridiculously complex if you need to charge both state sales taxes and local sales taxes, which is what was being discussed at the time. There literally was no way to keep track of every borrough's local taxes without putting together a very expensive system.

  17. but, was it even a failure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just tried going to healthcare.gov. It works fine for me.

    1. Re:but, was it even a failure? by Kalium70 · · Score: 1

      I tried to use healthcare.gov soon after it first came online. It was very slow, and eventually the system got to a point where it wouldn't let me go forward with my application or do anything else. A few days later, I tried again. This time, it complained that it couldn't verify my ID, and it told me call an 800-number or submit my ID online. The 800-number was closed at that time, so I decided to upload one of the identification documents. A week or so later, I still couldn't use my account, and I had not received any email about it either. Next, I tried calling the 800-number, which seems to be contracted with Experian. Experian asked for a "reference number" that the web site was supposed to have provided, but it didn't. Without that number, Experian refused to help me. The main healthcare.gov phone number could not help me, either. Finally, I tried creating a new account, and at some point the site asked me a few multiple-choice questions about my previous addresses and so forth. This is apparently the ID "verification." I had never gotten to this page on my original account! Eventually, I was able to look at the insurance plans available. My guess is that my original account ended up with bad data in it, and there was no way to recover from it other than creating a new account.

    2. Re:but, was it even a failure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silver lining: you count as TWO users who've successfully signed up for service!

  18. bipartisan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hint that a larger than usual deception is being carried out.

  19. free the innocent stem cells etc.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we could stop supplying weapons that are killing our genuine allys mostly kids in some free land freeloader greed fear hoarding real estate based genocides (see also the native american genocides; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88k2imkGIFA

    stop feeding us crap made by corepirate nazis

    let our civil servants treat us with civility again

    put an end to the ever fatal WMD MANufactured 'weather' http://www.globalresearch.ca/weather-warfare-beware-the-us-military-s-experiments-with-climatic-warfare/7561

    clean up the false alarm media mongrelling 24/7

    that should make most of us feel better right away at least a start instead of the current cheerleading hypenosys 24/7 for 10 years

  20. Nope by Enry · · Score: 1, Insightful

    (If you ever say it, wash your mouth out with soap. If anyone ever says it to you, run.)

    I reject that sentiment. The statement was a motivating tool. It may not have been said - it probably didn't need to be said during the real mission as these were people that worked with those astronauts for years before the launch occurred. They didn't need to be told that the future of the space program and the three astronauts hung on their actions. But it got the point across to the audience, who didn't have that relationship.

    1. Re:Nope by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Yes, he was saying "So much is at stake here that we won't consider a plan for failure. Failure is so bad that it isn't valuable to consider" IN a business setting, failure of the enterprise is a viable option. Costs might become too high, business environment or regulations might change, etc. For Apollo 13 these weren't options. Either bring these guys home or we all pack up and go home.

      Regardless, if a manager said it to me at my work I might consider running.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    2. Re:Nope by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Which is why it was probably okay to use that in the movie, where you have an audience in mind. This is like the obligatory killing of a red short early in a ST:TOS episode. Just to show the audience how dangerous the situation is. In real life, killing an ensign every now and then is NOT going to raise morale.

      --
      bickerdyke
    3. Re:Nope by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      No, I believe the quote was that one is supposed to kill an *Admiral* to encourage the others.

    4. Re:Nope by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      (If you ever say it, wash your mouth out with soap. If anyone ever says it to you, run.)

      I reject that sentiment. The statement was a motivating tool. It may not have been said - it probably didn't need to be said during the real mission as these were people that worked with those astronauts for years before the launch occurred. They didn't need to be told that the future of the space program and the three astronauts hung on their actions. But it got the point across to the audience, who didn't have that relationship.

      I always saw it as shorthand -- failure is not an acceptable option, and thus everything has to be planned to prevent failure. It usually (though not always) means that you'll be given all resources available to ensure success, which is much less likely in a business setting.

  21. The Space Shuttle by BigBadBus · · Score: 1

    It could be argued that complacency within the Space Shuttle design team engendered a feeling of "failure is never an option." Why else be so confident in a design that allowed them to remove crew escape contingencies and quote a 100,000 in 1 failure rate?

    1. Re:The Space Shuttle by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

      I think the funny thing is that the 100,000 to 1 ratio works out about perfectly on a per minute basis; that is one accident per 100,000 minutes of operation. I think that challenger flew for a tad over 90,000 minutes. Then with Columbia they "vastly" improved safety and got it to fly for 400,000 minutes.

  22. could call it healthcare.love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if there were any (love) involved. maybe we should ask the moms or the native elders?

  23. Obvious troll is obvious. Try more subtle next tim by raymorris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Next time try being a little more subtle - not even Obama himself thinks this mess will be fixed in six months.
    If you want to pretend to be a left wing loony, "keep the gov't out of my medicare/obamacare" is a little too stupid.
    Try "keep the evil businesses out of my business".

  24. Overblown by timeOday · · Score: 0

    All the angst over the website is just getting silly. Yes, the website launch sucked. So what? Nobody died. The site didn't even exist before. You can still go to the individual insurers' sites if you want, like before. In a few months the new site will be working, and the whole thing will be quickly forgotten.

    1. Re:Overblown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the angst over the website has more to do with the administration.

      When dealing with this website we are left with two options about the current Administration:
      1) Obama knew of the problems, but he decided to plow ahead and lie about it to the public and feign ignorance.
      2) Obama didn't know about the problems, which then shows his administration is out of his control and is a poor leader.

      Neither of those are particularly good for him. But due to how politics work, it's important to misdirect fury from the actual problems. Hence the big deal about the website. It acts to hide that Obama is either incompetent or a liar.

      But as I said, that's just my thoughts on it with no factual basis, just what I call my own form of "common sense", which anybody is perfectly at liberty to disagree with.

  25. Themoclineof Truth by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seems to be a clasic case of the Themocline of Truth. http://brucefwebster.com/2008/04/15/the-wetware-crisis-the-themocline-of-truth/

    1. Re:Themoclineof Truth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is everyone here missing the obvious? The classic treatises on this matter are:

      The Mythical Man Month, by Fred Brooks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month
      Death March, by Ed Yourdon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_march_(software_development)

      There is value, I'm sure in updates, more modern takes, and so forth. However these are the original texts that define the problem and what, if anything, can be done about it.

  26. I still don't understand by armahillo · · Score: 1

    I still don't get how the website could have failed so incredibly miserably.

    The problems the site faces seem to be elementary, the type of mistakes that I made when I was first doing web development. I get that the scale of the site is massive, and that at that scale you have to do many things a little differently than smaller-scale web apps. But this was a president who had very tech-savvy people at hand on his campaign, and even in his first term (Look at "change.gov" for example; that site gets massive traffic and holds up pretty well, even if the responses from the WH are patronizing as hell at times). How come this site crashed and burned so pathetically?

    1. Re:I still don't understand by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      The president didn't replace the bureaucrats who headed agencys like Medicare with the the tech-savvy people who ran his campaign. After his campaign those people did not join the goverment. They went back into the start up scene to make money. The site failed for the same reasons other projects fail. Requirements were finalized too late, leaving not enough time for testing. Requirments in Spring + Deadline in Fall + Huge Budget = Fail

    2. Re:I still don't understand by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      I still don't get how the website could have failed so incredibly miserably.

      The problems the site faces seem to be elementary, the type of mistakes that I made when I was first doing web development.

      Then you clearly don't understand the sorts of issues they were having.

      http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/LMI-Meeting-Notes-October-2013.pdf

      Read the war-room notes. It's primarily about interfaces to other systems.

    3. Re:I still don't understand by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      The problems the site faces seem to be elementary, the type of mistakes that I made when I was first doing web development.

      I feel there's actually no single thing you can point to and say "that. That's what happened," but all the problems I have heard of seem to fall into two categories:

      1) The website tries to tie together a dozenish agencies with very very different computer systems and methods of handling and accessing of information. It needs to check SS, Medicare, the IRS, (the NSA?? Who knows) and I have heard that many of the website hangs came from that interaction with a communications breakdown. It's a website that has as many incompatible backends as there are government agencies that need to be consulted.

      2) Unfortunately, and this is pretty unforgivable, the people who were writing the front-end code for healthcare.gov were simply bad at their jobs. There's no excuse for the sorts of Javascript 101 novice-level errors that we saw on day 1 (accidentally putting a code block ending in a comment section so that the rest of the script is accidentally slurped into that function? Really? That's intro-to-programming level zaniness right there). That's like me writing stupid stuff into my project because it's 3am and the program is due in 5 hours and I spent the previous weeks procrastinating and playing Civilization.

      Look at "change.gov" for example; that site gets massive traffic and holds up pretty well, even if the responses from the WH are patronizing as hell at times

      Change.gov has a far far far simpler mission that's fairly self-contained. How much does traffic need to leave change.gov? Not much, I would wager. It's not the amount of traffic that is important, it's what the site has to do with that traffic, and that's what kills healthcare.gov.

  27. How and why Glasnost & Perestroika ended Cold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " a culture that prefers deluding the boss over delivering bad news isn't well equipped to try new things."
    So simple, so true. Obviously US government people don't need to fear Gulag, but I guess the specter of unemployment nowadays is the threat enough.

  28. ACA a tutorial by glennrrr · · Score: 2

    The Affordable Care Act : AKA ObamaCare
    Well, the website had 4 major functions:
    1) Comparison shopping. In retrospect, it could have been handled by a private company that Travelocity like didn't sell insurance, but instead helped you shop.
    2) Subsidy. According to the law, you only get a subsidy through a state-run exchange (the Administration has chosen to ignore the actual wording of the law to include the Federally run exchange two.)
    3) Seeing if people should be shuttled off to the mediocre but cheap care of Medicaid.
    4) As a showcase for the law. This was to be something concrete to show what great things progressive government is capable of.

    1. Re:ACA a tutorial by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      This was to be something concrete to show what great things progressive government is capable of.

      Yout have a very funny idea of what "progressive government" is. The ACA is a scheme that even Count Otto von Bismark would have found too conservative.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Health_Insurance_Bill_of_1883

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    2. Re:ACA a tutorial by Shakrai · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I don't understand why the "exchanges" were necessary to meet the goals of the ACA. Subsidies for the poor can be provided without the Government being a gate-keeper (I don't have to buy my groceries from a Government run "exchange" to use food stamps) and the individual mandate/minimum coverage requirements would have worked equally well with insurance sold directly to consumers. Indeed, group policies don't come from the exchanges, and you can still buy individual policies directly from insurance brokers (albeit without the option of a subsidy), and both still have to meet the minimum essential coverage requirements of the ACA.

      The exchanges are a great example of the Progressive tenancy to favor centralized Rube Golberg solutions, rather than just setting the parameters of the marketplace and getting the hell out of the way. Say what you will about private enterprise, but any halfway competent for-profit corporation would have figured out how to deploy a rating website with four years of lead time for testing and development.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re:ACA a tutorial by glennrrr · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, I didn't want to and don't want to get into the nomenclature. Whatever your opinion of the actual point on the spectrum of ideologies, the people who most support President Obama tend to call themselves progressives. They were looking forward to showing the world who smart and technically adept and better than lesser peoples they were by this hi-tech wonder: the Healthcare.gov website. It was going to dispel the misperception of government products being dreary, consumer hostile, Soviet like palaces of inefficiency, and dazzle with its helpfulness, swiftness and central place in one's life. That, at least, was the plan.

    4. Re:ACA a tutorial by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

      Whatever your opinion of the actual point on the spectrum of ideologies, the people who most support President Obama tend to call themselves progressives.

      No. People who call themselves progressives seem Obama as what he is: a moderate conservative, pushing the same old imperialism in foreign policy and a very slightly watered down version of the same old corporatism at home.

      No progressive would make a huge give-away to the private health insurance industry the centerpiece of their term in office.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    5. Re:ACA a tutorial by glennrrr · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Gallup poll for this week gives President Obama a job approval of 39% against the entire polled population, amongst self-identified liberals (which I'm going to assume is a synonym for progressive when it comes to American politics) his job approval is a pretty good 70%, amongst 'liberal Democrats' it's 82%.

    6. Re:ACA a tutorial by glennrrr · · Score: 2

      Success has a thousand fathers, Failure is an orphan.

    7. Re:ACA a tutorial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      amongst self-identified liberals (which I'm going to assume is a synonym for progressive when it comes to American politics)

      Actually, in American politics, if someone self-identifies as "liberal" or "conservative" you can replace that with "moron."

      The most "progressive" people are the centrists, who don't get a voice due to the two-party system.

    8. Re:ACA a tutorial by bzipitidoo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mr. Slippery has it right. The US doesn't have much of a left these days. It has a right (D) and a more extreme right (R). To wit, who do I vote for if I want the law upheld, no one above the law, none of this Too Big To Fail or Too Big To Jail, and those Wall Street thieves and destroyers of our prosperity brought to justice? And who do I vote for if I want sanity, facts, and truth on unpleasant matters, not propaganda? Maybe healthcare can help increase the sanity level. But on the whole, not Obama, and definitely not Romney. Maybe Elizabeth Warren?

      If you want peace, prepare for war. If you want to avoid Climate Change, prepare for it. But no, we can't even arrive at a consensus that Climate Change is real and not liberal scientist propaganda, and that if we make no changes it will get very bad for everyone. Many aren't hard changes to make, and are good to do even if there is no climate change problem. Like, with electric cars. I don't know about you, but I don't like breathing exhaust fumes. Maybe we should work on batteries more before making the big switch, that's a valid debate to have. But as to the motors themselves, there is no question that electric motors are far, far superior to internal combustion engines. Then there are traffic lights. Who could possibly not want traffic lights to get some brains and cut the amount of time we all spend sitting at the red light? But people fight such ideas anyway. It's almost like we're deliberately making life harder for ourselves because we're bored or something.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    9. Re:ACA a tutorial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. People who call themselves progressives seem Obama as what he is: a moderate conservative

      Only the insane delusional ones would think that.

    10. Re:ACA a tutorial by Kvasio · · Score: 1

      Soviets were very efficient. On paper that is.
      Basic worker did x units, reported to his boss doing 1.2 x units. His boss reported to supervisor doing 2 x units. Supervisor reported to his supervisor doing 5 units. He reported to whoever run the state statistics that 8 x has been produced.

    11. Re:ACA a tutorial by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We already had a Rube Goldberg solution in place. It is called the private insurance industry, and Big Pharma. That conglomerate has made profit off of not serving the public and fulfilling its purpose, but by screwing the most vulnerable. No one is more vulnerable than those in need of health care. It was a dumb idea from the start, as the founders should have realized. People who need health care are not in a good position to hunt for bargains or fight back when denied coverage. The injured and the ill can't devote themselves to that. Can't. They're trying to stay alive, they can't haggle over what that's worth. Have to trust that the doctors won't screw you over too hard, knowing full well that they are seriously conflicted and pushed hard to do just that so drug companies and related parasites can profit more. Even when well enough, most of us are not experts in medicine and lack the knowledge and training to evaluate medical propositions. We do a fair job of judging these using other means like reading about others' experiences with specific procedures, organizations, and doctors, but it's not enough. Markets cannot function properly when half the participants aren't in a position to evaluate deals and turn down bad ones.

      Another area of denial and dishonesty is death. Medical practitioners make money from providing care, not from making people well. No one needs more care than the terminally ill. It is in medical practitioners' interest to help the dying cling to life as long as possible. Many don't scruple to play upon our guilt and horror. You wouldn't deny that heart bypass operation to your parents who are dying of cancer, would you? You wouldn't say no to a therapy that is hideously expensive but has a 20% chance of holding off the inevitable for another 2 years, would you? You're a heartless, murderering, low life, ungrateful scum if you so much as suggest it. Death panels! Death panels!

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    12. Re:ACA a tutorial by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Politics is the art of the possible.

    13. Re:ACA a tutorial by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why the private enterprise has to have any part of healthcare.

    14. Re:ACA a tutorial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand why consensual love making has to have any part of sex.

  29. Bureaucratic reality generation by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bureaucrats are comfortable generating reality. To a large extent this becomes their job; if you are in charge of an environmental clean up you will move the goalposts around to match what you can do, and if you can't even meet these mutable goals you figure out a way to measure it so that the result are met. Plus you take any reports that indicate failure and "massage" them until they look good; and if the underlings who create these horrible truths won't shut up you punish them or just get rid of them.

    This works well when the facts are a bit fuzzy and you are able to control the flow of information to your superiors and ideally the public. The problem is that the skillset that enables these people to survive and thrive in a bureaucracy aren't the skills required to deliver a functioning and realistic test passing product. So you have a product such as healthcare.gov which is going to be wildly exposed to the public and the scrutiny of people you can't control (the press and political opposition) and oddly enough it blows up.

    People look at the hard numbers and say this is a pile of crap that doesn't work. Yet I am willing to bet two key things are happening:
    One is that there are reports flowing up to the top people (who don't understand technology) that are a combination of saying that it works far better than the "detractors" are claiming while simultaniously blaming some other party with lesser abilities to communicate with said superiors.
    And two that the company that won this contract is awesome at participating in this reality distorting circlejerk. I bet that the reports and other paperwork was Washington gold; the product of top-of-the-class-MBAs. People for whom facts are not only to be ignored but to be looked at with suspicion and hostility.

    So the question of which development style should have been used or which technology was best are nearly moot; in that every choice would have been made based upon the criteria of "It must look good in a report"

    I suspect that the only lesson learned from this in Washington is that if you love your career that you should not get involved in a project that involves a measurable end product that is delivered to the public.

    The various opposition groups will probably try to score various points based upon actual facts such as cronyism and poor testing but the reality is that 5 minutes into getting power they would hand a similar project over to their insider friends and primarily demand good paperwork over an actual product.

    So to prevent this type of disaster you can't look at say agile practices in software but maybe agile type practices within government itself.

  30. Failure is not an option ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... it comes bundled with the software.

  31. Am I the only one who can tell the difference by tpstigers · · Score: 1

    between a piece of legislation and a website? The Affordable Care Act is NOT a website. The failure of the website does not equate to a failure of the Act. Mainly, it's indicative of the fact that government contracts go to companies that are good at getting government contracts, NOT companies that are good at the work for which the contracts are granted.

    1. Re:Am I the only one who can tell the difference by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      No, but the people who hate the ACA want the general public to think that if the website sucks, the ACA must suck and should therefor be scrapped. The arguments don't even have to make sense anymore: We've gotten to the point where "It's snowing in Syracuse before Thanksgiving, so we should scrap the ACA."

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  32. Apollo 13 by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Way to take that line out of context. "Failure is not an option." wasn't about general day to day stuff, it was about saving the lives of 3 astronauts during an emergency situation. In fact, the mission (LANDING ON THE FREEKIN MOON) was indeed a failure.... They DIDN'T do it!

    The whole "failure is not an option" thing is fine when you have lives in danger and the whole world is watching, but you don't get to use it about your website, no matter how many jobs are at stake. The message to take away here is "Even a million jobs are not worth 1 human life." If you understand and live by that, you will be a better person. Otherwise, you're just another scumbag millionaire who doesn't care about people.

    1. Re:Apollo 13 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The message to take away here is "Even a million jobs are not worth 1 human life." If you understand and live by that, you will be a better person. Otherwise, you're just another scumbag millionaire who doesn't care about people.

      I'm glad you've got "being a better person" all figured out - all this time I was weighing the pros and cons rationally with non-infinite values like a chump.

    2. Re:Apollo 13 by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      When they said that "Failure is not an option," they meant that giving up was not an acceptable option. He wanted them to work to develop possible solutions, and not just go through the motions because everyone felt it was a lost cause. I used to see that when I was in the military. Not because of expected failure, but because people thought the work was useless. When planning, you develop multiple options for a plan. Then you compare them to see which one works the best. One option always seems the obvious one, and the teams throw together a couple of other half-hearted ones together because they have too. Because you force them to think, many times these other plans turn out to be unexpectedly superior. Really good planning teams have the knack of developing really thought provoking options. In the Apollo 13 case, he was forcing them to plan, and striving to fight off the depression that was settling into the team.

    3. Re:Apollo 13 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except he never said it.
      Here's where it came from according to http://www.spaceacts.com/notanoption.htm

      Apollo 13 script writer: "Weren't there times when everybody, or at least a few people, just panicked?"
      Jerry Bostick, Flight Dynamics Officer, Apollo 13: "No, when bad things happened, we just calmly laid out all the options, and failure was not one of them. We never panicked, and we never gave up on finding a solution."

    4. Re:Apollo 13 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The message to take away here is "Even a million jobs are not worth 1 human life." If you understand and live by that, you will be a better person.

      If that were true no significant civil engineering project would ever be done. It is statistically normal for people to die accidentally on large projects in the real world. More generally one of the statistical disadvantages of being a man instead of a woman is a much higher likelihood of dying or being seriously injured in an industrial (i.e. job) accident.

      Of course, just like your quote, "Failure is not an option" is also just something to aspire to, not reality.

      Insisting on absolute safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world. -- Mary Shafer, NASA

  33. Who's responsibility was it to communicate risks? by EMG+at+MU · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my group there is a person with that specific responsibility. They communicate the possibility of not meeting a deadline and make contingency plans to get the best result given the circumstances.

    That person should be fired, and IIRC they have already resigned.

    Now find senior advisors who weren't responsible for communicating the risks but knew about them anyways. Ask them why they didn't communicate the risks to the President and based on their answer either fire them or reprimand them.

    Send the message that there will be accountability. Why is that important? Unfortunately, be it in Government or the private sector, there is a culture of "that wasn't my job". Everyone knows the project will fail, every single fucking person from the junior engineer to the senior project director know. But everyone winks at each other across the table at meetings and agrees that "failure is not an option, it will be done on time". And inside their heads and within their small groups everyone is saying "well it's not my job to sound the alarm". There is no incentive to take that political hit and say "Boss, we might have told you several times that everything is OK but honestly there are some severe risks to launching by the deadline and we need to start planning for a delay or reduction in features". Instead, when shit hits the fan it's like a mexican gunfight, everyone points a finger at someone else and says "well he knew too" or "that wasn't my job to bring up that this would never work."

    Engineering is hard, failure happens. It really shouldn't be punished (except where people just failed to do their jobs), instead it should be learned from so that the same mistakes are not made again.

    One day, when software engineering management is a real discipline, they will pound it into the heads of MBAs and PMPs that failure is not only an option, its the most common result so make sure the lines of communication are open, that people feel comfortable communicating risks and saying no, and that all the stakeholders know that the engineers cannot travel through time, so if you start a 1 year project 9 months before you want it to launch then you are SOL and have to pick what features are most important.

    I hate "you have more than one number one priority" more than "failure is not an option" and I feel people who say one usually say the other.

  34. Exact opposite in my experience by hsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    a culture that prefers deluding the boss over delivering bad news isn't well equipped to try new things

    In a former life I did a lot of gov contracting. For any project, you couldn't get your GPM (gov program manager) to sign off on anything. Why? Because they had to go to their boss to get approval. Who also had to go to their boss to get approval and so on.

    Why? Because they didn't want to be the one to blame if something went wrong. If anything, they were very apt to go up the flag pole for anything, but the issue was you never got an answer for anything.

    This seems to be the case for healthcare.gov, no one made actionable decisions.

  35. Chauncey Gardener by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The more you hear about how he supposedly didn't know this or that, the more you have to wonder if he isn't a simple community organizer.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Chauncey Gardener by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Anyone who paid attention to the political crap back when he first started running knew that he was a simple community organizer who would be in way over his head. Too bad no one listened to those "wingnut conservatives" when they said so.

      Well you get the government you vote for, so enjoy that.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Chauncey Gardener by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      When Jesse Jackson was running for President, a frequent (and valid) criticism was that the Presidency is not an entry-level position. It's a shame that 30 years later we elected an entry-level executive. It's shown since Day One.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    3. Re:Chauncey Gardener by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, for Pete's sake, would you anti-Obamites PLEASE shut up with the "no experience/community organizer" crap?

      I didn't vote for Obama, but he was a U.S. Senator for 4 years and an Illinois state senator for over 6 years before that. He was NOT an "entry-level" candidate.

    4. Re:Chauncey Gardener by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      None of those jobs are executive jobs. Therefore "entry-level executive" is an accurate description.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    5. Re:Chauncey Gardener by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he joins the ranks of presidents like George Washington, Abe Lincoln, Eisenhower and JFK then.

    6. Re:Chauncey Gardener by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet the GOP nominated McCain, who only had experience in the legislative branch - and Sarah Palin, who had experience as Mayor and Governor, which still left her in no way qualified to be Chief Executive!

  36. A little perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    March 21st 2010 to October 1 2013 is 3 years, 6 months, 10 days. December 7, 1941 to May 8, 1945 is 3 years, 5 months, 1 day. What this means is that in the time we were attacked at Pearl Harbor to the day Germany surrendered is not enough time for this federal government to build a working webpage. Mobilization of millions, building tens of thousands of tanks, planes, jeeps, subs, cruisers, destroyers, torpedoes, millions upon millions of guns, bombs, ammo, etc. Turning the tide in North Africa, Invading Italy, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Race to Berlin - all while we were also fighting the Japanese in the Pacific!! And in that amount of time - this administration can't build a working webpage.

    1. Re:A little perspective by shilly · · Score: 2

      How about some other perspective: in 1941, the US entered into a total war, the last such war we have seen. Essentially the entire output and focus of the country was directed towards the task of winning the war. I'm not sure getting healthcare.gov up and running was really quite the same priority.

  37. payoff by stenvar · · Score: 1

    Politicians don't get their rewards through revenue-generating web sites, they get their rewards through being able to convince the public to re-elect them. Although Obama clearly screwed up on this one, usually it's not a problem when government sites or projects are over budget or don't work: costs are shifted around, data is presented in more favorable ways, and taxes are used to pay for it. The result is that voters get fooled into thinking that they are getting value for their money, vendors get paid off and end up supporting the politicians that shoved money their way, and the politicians get reelected. And the system works so well because nobody ever wants to admit mistakes: politicians want to pretend everything is working, and if that fails find someone else to blame; companies and even competitors pretend everything is fine because they want to get more contracts; and voters don't want to admit they were fools voting for this.

  38. Richard Feynman by Gim+Tom · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think what Richard Feynman said at then end of the appendix to the report on the Space Shuttle Challenger failure may also apply in this situation.

    For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled. --Richard Feynman

  39. Planning. What planning? by jamesl · · Score: 2

    ... and the gulf between planning and reality.

    Planning? What planning? Hoping. Commanding. Directing. Praying. Lying. Concealing. Misdirecting. Deceiving. But no "planning" of the type that experienced project managers would recognize.
     

  40. Failure is not an option: it is a result. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have waited years to use that line. Thank you Healthcare.gov!

  41. Re:Accountability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you imply that he DID know and lied about it?

    Let me see if this fits...

    If he did know, that means he was lying when he feigned surprise that the thing was broken... Ok.. Does this guy lie on a regular basis?

    Benghazi was a protest over a video? Yea, that one was a lie.

    "You can keep your plan, period" Another lie.

    I didn't know the NSA was tracking phone calls (of Americans and/or world leaders)! I'll call that two lies (if not more).

    Yea, ole Barry has a habit of lying when it suits his political need so this "I didn't know the website was messed up" sure seems likely to be a lie too.

  42. Project wasn't a failure RELEASE was by kiviQr · · Score: 1

    People need to realize that law cannot set a strict date for software releases! Project like this should have been released gradually to small city, smaller state, then state by state. After every release check issues, then fix them. Even Brodway learned to tests their plays in smaller/controlled population.

  43. Who would have predicted? by argStyopa · · Score: 0

    I mean, it's not like the President lacked any management experience, right?

    Seriously, though, I think people who have never done it believe that running an organization is easy. Being a GOOD manager, or a GOOD CEO can be hellishly hard work where everything is done through innumerable proxies yet are ultimately your responsibility.

    It is not a partisan statement to say that the world's only superpower shouldn't be run/led by some dumbass community organizer with no management experience. The result is a partisan comment, unavoidably, but the simple fact shorn of context is undeniable.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Who would have predicted? by PPH · · Score: 1

      It is not a partisan statement to say that the world's only superpower shouldn't be run/led by some dumbass community organizer with no management experience.

      That might be true in an authoritarian regime, where orders from the top are expected to be carried out by subordinates (cue 'In Soviet Russia' jokes). But managing a political process in a democracy differs from corporate central planning. Where, if you don't maintain a consensus, the electorate can rise up and undo your best laid plans.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Who would have predicted? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Do you know what a community organizer does day-to-day? Typically, what they're doing is taking charge of groups of volunteers. That means the difference between a community organizer and a manager is that the community organizer has to contend with the fact that they can neither fire the idiots nor offer any financial incentive to do what the organizer says.

      In my view Obama has been fair-to-middling as president. There have been some serious problems, some serious successes (e.g. Osama bin Laden), and a lot of kinda-working things (including healthcare.gov, which I was able to successfully use last Friday). The economy doesn't suck as much as when Obama took office, but is far worse than it should be. The response to Hurricane Sandy wasn't perfect, but was a lot better than what happened with Katrina.

      The last 5 presidents with significant business management experience were: George W Bush, George H W Bush, Jimmy Carter, Herbert Hoover, and Warren Harding. Not exactly what I would call a litany of greatness.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  44. Liberals Don't Live in Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reality is an idea so far removed from the neoliberal mindset that it shouldn't have surprised ANYONE (except liberals, of course) that Obamacare was a train wreck.

    Liberals do not live in reality. They live in fantasy rainbow unicorn land.

    1. Re:Liberals Don't Live in Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I respectfully disagree. Liberals do not live in a fantasy rainbow unicorn land... Quite the contrary..

      They live in Utopia, or more to the truth, think they can get us to Utopia though boneheaded laws (for the good of all). Problem is, that history is replete with examples of how and why their attempts drive us to Utopia though law simply will not work. Utopia can *only* work when you have perfect government and perfect subjects of that government, but liberals/progressives don't understand that both government and people have flaws and which make Utopia impossible. History proves this.

      Liberals suffer from immature thinking about their world and the people in it. They don't understand basic human nature. They don't understand government. They don't understand history and how it illustrates how wrong their ideas are. They are singing "I love you, You love me" along with Barney (the purple dino) and simply don't see the truth. They think that unequal outcome is evidence of unequal opportunity (and thus not fair). They don't think beyond the primary outcome and onto the long term effects of social programs. They will decry corporate profits, demanding higher tax rates, then be surprised when companies move off shore denying them of both tax revenue and jobs too in response. Generational dependency on welfare, companies moving off shore are never their fault, or somehow can be fixed by a better law They simply do not THINK far enough or make a habit of asking "What happens then?" when considering some law to meter out fairness as they see it.

      So this is not about rainbows and unicorns or fantasy land. It's about shallow thinking. It's about believing oneself to be somehow smarter or better than humans in the past. It's about not learning from others' mistakes because they are too proud to admit to having the same faults. It's thinking they can legislate their way to Utopia, not understanding that history proves their approach leads to dictators and despots and the destruction of freedom. It's about not asking obvious questions about where the money comes from and what happens when we borrow too much. It's about being short sighted and concerned only about today's results and not thinking about next week, next year and longer.

      No, there are no Unicorns, rainbows in Liberal fantasy land. I wish there where because it would be easier to show how badly out of touch with reality they really are. It wouldn't take that much thinking to see it. As it stands, showing the failures of liberalism requires the person being shown to think about more than the initial effects of liberal policy. Getting people who are indoctrinated into liberalism to think critically takes a lot of effort.

    2. Re:Liberals Don't Live in Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a crock of shit. Trickle-down theory is the mantra of the right, not the left. Ever since Reagan, we have had borrow-and-spend, ever-lower corporate taxes and ever-higher tax breaks and other corporate welfare, relaxed environmental regulations, deregulation of the financial and housing industries, "free trade" to open markets to the big players, more protections for intellectual property... all in the name of "economic growth," "job creation" and "a rising tide floats all boats."

      So what was the result? Huge productivity gains... benefiting those at the top. Greater income disparity, stagnant middle-class wages, huge consumer debt keeping the working classes under the thumb of the banks, and struggling to keep their heads above water.

      Your side (the rich Powers That Be) got their way for 30 years. So WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

  45. Executive branch... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    >> If Congress can't handle a simple friggin website project, it's time to clean house

    Replace "Congress" with "the current president" (you know, the one in charge of IMPLEMENTING the law - http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html) and I'll agree with you,

    1. Re:Executive branch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are introducing logic, reason and facts. None of that is allowed.

      Nobody wants to know that the executive branch is only there to execute the law, not modify it, change it, implement parts of it and actively choose to not implement others (see: immigration 'dreamers').

      I am continuously amazed at how many times this president has been able to use "I didn't know about X" as a valid excuse. And people buy it. I didn't know about the guns going to Mexico. I didn't know about the wiretapping of the press. I didn't know about the IRS. And now I didn't know that the launch of my "signature piece of legislation" was, not going to launch...

      I'm going with Casino: "Listen, if you didn't know you're bein' scammed, you're too fuckin' dumb to keep this job. If you did know, you were in on it. Either way, you're out. Get out! Go on. Let's go."

  46. It probably doesn't help.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that there are apps being distributed specifically for the purpose of crashing the web sight and doing DDOS attacks upon it. I'll leave it to others to try and guess who's the likely party responsible for this crap but that site has been a lightening rod for one of them. Yes, it was built poorly and can't handle the traffic but asshats doing this kind of crap can't be helping matters. Real people NEED to get into it to get health care, including people I know, so I truly hope that the FBI is on the case and going after the idiots at least as hard as they did the Anonymous twits if not harder!

  47. Design / Managers think differently than Engineers by Dan667 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of the most helpful things I ever realized is that Design and Management think in terms of yes / no and Engineers think in terms of shades of gray. It will work vs it will work to "x" sigma are very different things and you have to have some skill to translate.

  48. Gerrymandering by glennrrr · · Score: 2

    Well, it is true that gerrymandering leads to extremists, but gerrymandering really only is that bad in large states. I live in New Hampshire, I'd like to see you try and draw a district map in New Hampshire which was more than 55% Democratic, as we only have 2 districts and both are always competitive. On the other hand, Massachusetts has no Republicans in Congress; and even then Barney Frank quit in a huff when his Newton district was redrawn to be even a little bit competitive and he'd have to spend time debating some hopeless Republican; how humiliating for him.
    I used to live in California, and the gerrymandering there was horrible and resulted in the legislature being filled with morons and parasites. It'd be nice if you could mandate a computer algorithm to draw the lines based solely on population, city boundaries and a minimum number of polygons.

    1. Re:Gerrymandering by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      New Hampshire is great in that it's small enough for retail politics to be effective (one of the few good arguments for allowing it to keep the first Presidential Primary, IMHO), and to keep the formation of political machines at bay. One could try and replicate that experience for the larger States by increasing the size of the House, though that's going to run into the same roadblock (nobody in power wishes to see their power diluted) as those proposals that seek to do away with Gerrymandering.

      In reality I think we need to see both things happen, a reform of the district drawing process, and an increase in representation. I'd say increase the size of the House to at least one thousand members, which can be done with a simple Act of Congress. I would also argue for giving each State three Senators instead of two (this would require a Constitutional Amendment), so that each State would have a Senate seat at play in every Federal election.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Gerrymandering by glennrrr · · Score: 1

      I would think that more house seats would lead to more egregious Gerrymanding. My entire point about Gerrymandering was that it was hard to gerrymander 2 districts, if we had the 4 or so you envision, it might be possible; i.e. put Nashua and Salem in one district to concentrate the Democratic vote and make 3 reliable Republican districts by splitting up the rest of the state. (I'm actually not sure if Nashua/Salem would be the best choice, it might Concord/Manchester, but you get the idea).

    3. Re:Gerrymandering by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting and valid point. I guess my hope would be that retail politics would negate some of the effects of gerrymandering and political machines. Not sure if it would work out that way in the real world, history suggests that it would not.

      It would be interesting to see what would happen with a computer driven algorithm, say (just thinking out loud here) that you start West to East, aiming for equal population districts that follow defined political boundaries and geographical features (rivers?) to the extent possible. You'd still have uncompetitive districts and flukes of geography, but perhaps there would be less of them.

      I just don't know, smarter people than me have tried and failed to solve these problems. It'll probably take a combination of different things, gerrymandering reform, more representation, term limits, etc, and even then we'll be lucky if it buys us a few decades of semi-functional Government before the partisan asshats screw it up again. Jefferson was on to something with the tree of liberty, as was Washington when he condemned political parties, but the former would require Americans to get off the couch and give a damn, while the latter's advice was ignored before he was even in the ground.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:Gerrymandering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds a lot like Iowa
      https://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/Central/LSB/Guides/NonpartisanApproach_NCSL_2002.pdf

      The Iowa district map is one of the sanest I've seen of any state
      https://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/Resources/Redist/2011/2011-03-31/CongressStatewide8x11.pdf

  49. Failure is not an option by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 1

    Usually, it's a requirement (or, in the case of HeathCare.gov, several requirements).

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
    1. Re:Failure is not an option by gront · · Score: 1

      "Failure is not an option. It is the default setting."

    2. Re:Failure is not an option by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 1

      I like it.

      Cheers,
      Dave

      --
      They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
      Ben
  50. But the blood suckers don't have to pay anything.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong, under ObamaCare the blood suckers don't have to pay anything. They get essentially free insurance. So how does that help lower the cost?

  51. Or, "how MBAs killed healthcare.gov" by echtertyp · · Score: 1

    Super summarized.

  52. President surrendered leadership at the start ... by drnb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who concedes decision-making power of the most important item on one's list? It's more than a conundrum, it's a full-blown mystery.

    It baffles me, but the President surrendered leadership on his signature legislation at the beginning. One of his first moves was to let partisan Nancy Pelosi take the lead and also take the process into the back rooms with lobbyists in tow. He surrendered his promises of an open and transparent legislative process with seats at the table for all.

  53. The Vasa effect by jeti · · Score: 1

    Can we call this the Vasa effect? Named after the pride of the Swedish marine that sank minutes into its maiden voyage, killing dozens of the crew.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

  54. Who cares about a crappy website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if healthcare.gov worked perfectly from day one as a website, the ACA is a colossally bad law. It is flagrantly unconstitutional and preposterous in its financial structure. Furthermore, the ACA is an excellent example of political deception. Virtually nothing about the political arguments for the ACA or the process by which it was passed into law was transparent or honest. The ACA needs to be killed and killed quickly before it destroys whatever is left of representative govt. in the U.S. The citizens of countries other than the U.S. should by very worried by the prospect of the govt. of a country as powerful as the U.S. either becoming completely unmoored from internal political accountability or imploding economically or militarily, leaving a gigantic vacuum that will be filled by who-knows-what-or-whom.

  55. President had **no** choice on Bin Laden raid ... by drnb · · Score: 1

    The one positive thing the Bin Laden raid, Obama was at the controls making the tough calls.

    Even with only a 50/50 chance the person in the compound was Bin Laden, the American public would *never* have forgiven the President for not sending a team to the compound. The President made the *only* decision that politics allowed for.

    If no raid had occurred then right before the election there would have been a leaked story about a compound that may have held Bin Laden and the President decided to do nothing about it. The President had no choice but to go if he wanted re-eelction.

    Keep in mind that he barely won while getting credit for taking out Bin Laden. Yes, barely won, the margin of votes was small in key states that could have tipped the electoral college vote either way.

  56. Lack of good project management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lack of good project management was the major fault. Developers are usually wrong on estimation and how good the code is. Testers are usually wrong on estimation. Project management is responsible to bring the picture together and provide reality.

  57. Providing proof by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While it may be the Republican's view that government does not work and should be reduced, it's the Democrats who are proving out the validity of that view.

    Since the Democrats do not seem to have that view, it seems then a totally valid view to have given those most opposed to it are providing the evidence.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Providing proof by microbox · · Score: 1

      read the article.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
  58. So some things best done at state level ? by drnb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    False. 26 Republican States refused to create their own website by the December 31st 2012 deadline, forcing the Federal government to create 26 websites in less than a year.

    So you are arguing that some big social programs are best handled at the state level, that they should not be done at the federal level? That they can not be done right at the federal level?

    1. Re:So some things best done at state level ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems more like the problem is that some states are too overrun with Republicans to be willing to institute programs that help the poor and middle-class, so the Feds have to step in. I'd be Libertarian if not for the clear history of former-confederate states abusing their citizens, but we're stuck with the deficient states, so we need the feds to keep an eye on them and intervene as needed.

    2. Re:So some things best done at state level ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he is saying that 26 Republican States refused to build their website, so the federal government was stuck with building them. No correlation between State and Federal here, so don't try to make one.

    3. Re:So some things best done at state level ? by drnb · · Score: 1

      No, he is saying that 26 Republican States refused to build their website, so the federal government was stuck with building them. No correlation between State and Federal here, so don't try to make one.

      Wrong. The federal government had to make one website for the federal exchange. The knew over three years ago that a federal exchange would be needed.

  59. It is even more so in cases like this by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    If you are budgeted 40 hours a week for six months, you can only work 40 hours/week for six months as a government contractor, salaried or not. Those are literally the only hours you can legally bill to the customer. That means that if you do 80 hours a week with only 40 paid, the business has literally taken away your ability to make a salary for those remaining 3 months unless they have new coverage. It is worse than normal salaried over time.

    1. Re:It is even more so in cases like this by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      If you are budgeted 40 hours a week for six months, you can only work 40 hours/week for six months as a government contractor, salaried or not. Those are literally the only hours you can legally bill to the customer. That means that if you do 80 hours a week with only 40 paid, the business has literally taken away your ability to make a salary for those remaining 3 months unless they have new coverage. It is worse than normal salaried over time.

      The company could still pay the employee and be just fine, though. They just don't get paid themselves for it.
      What used to piss me off, back when I was an employee of a company that hired me out as a contractor, is that I was paid salary based upon 40 hours per week, however, if they sent me to a site, they billed by the hour. If I worked 16 hours one day, they literally made an extra $3200 and I got zero of it. Now I understand that they have to cover my "bench time" (of which there was none), and vacations and whatnot. But in the case where I would have been well within my right to walk out the door after 8 hours, but instead chose to finish the job and also allow my company to bill more, it seems some consideration is in order.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  60. Baloney! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Yet no one who understood the problems was able to tell the President.

    If you believe THAT....

  61. How wrong you are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a salaried employee is only authorized to bill so many hours to a contract during a period of performance.

    Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR) require contractors working on US Govt contracts to bill for every hour worked. FAR do not require that the contractors pay the people who worked those hours (certain exceptions apply), but you can get a company in decently hot water (read: temporarily barred from future contract awards) if you can prove they billed for fewer hours than were worked and knew they were doing that.

  62. And this is why the boss does walkabouts by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    I was at a multi billion dollar corporation. The CEO wandered by and chitchatted with the programmers about how their specific projects were doing.

    He only did this once a year or so for each department. It took about an hour of his time per department.

    He would also meet with the supervisors and then the managers.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:And this is why the boss does walkabouts by PPH · · Score: 1

      This assumes a CEO that knows anything about his/her industry. And that these walkabouts don't generate a shitstorm of morale problems in the middle management ranks. Bypassing the chain of command and all.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  63. some perspective by Chirs · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to Wikipedia, "In left-right politics, right-wing describes an outlook or specific position that accepts or supports social hierarchy or social inequality."

    Rand Paul is all about small government--which pretty much by definition means right-wing according to the definition above.

    Rand Paul calls himself a "constitutional conservative" and a "libertarian conservative." He opposes federal government involvement in health care, thinks it should be entirely privatized. He thinks the 14th Amendment shouldn't apply to kids of illegal immigrants. He shares some of the views of the religious right--he is against abortion even in cases of rape or incest, and he is opposed to same sex marriage.

    1. Re:some perspective by glennrrr · · Score: 1

      Well according to recent polls nearly 60 percent of Americans think the Federal government should stay out of health car (at least as it pertains to ensuring coverage.) Perhaps in your world view nearly 60 percent of the public is extremist. And 40 some plus percent still are opposed to same sex marriage, maybe in your definition extremism starts at 40%.

    2. Re:some perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah Wikipedia. There's a reliable non-biased source. Thanks for clearing that up.

    3. Re:some perspective by matfud · · Score: 1

      Why do people oppose same sex marriage? It is just a legal contract as it has always been. Who owns what and who gets it when they die. Who inherits et. al.

      The religious side is something else. In many countries there is no particular benifit to marriage when both parties are still alive apart from them attesting thier commitment before what ever deity they wish and in front of thier freinds and familly. In the US though I believe you have a tax system that can benifit those who are married.

      But it really breaks down to property.

      So why would anyone oppose it? In many countries the only difference occurs if you have not written a will or if you seperate (which can also be covered by contract law)

    4. Re:some perspective by towermac · · Score: 1

      "pretty much by definition"

      Uh, no; that's not what the words you posted say. You might think that definition is implied, but you would be incorrect.

      Small government does not necessarily mean social inequality or social hierarchies. (btw, name for me a society ever in the history of man, that didn't have an upper crust.)

      But I really don't care about social equality. Many of us just want equality under the law. That would be enough, but you won't even allow us that.

      Because in your government, each law is 2400 pages long. Filled with exceptions, exemptions, addendums ... A simple working man like myself can't possibly know the law in that case, so he has to take the government employee's word for it. Whatever his title is, he is now Minister of Law, as far as I'm concerned.

      And I'm living under the rule of men, instead of the rule of law.

  64. obama knew by david999 · · Score: 1

    At least $600 million was spent on a website! with another $1 billion going to state exchanges to setup portals. Manned by SEIU aand Acorn people. They managed to sign up a dog and several hundred people yet not 1 person is paying as there is no setup for taking payments! Valerie Jarrett's daughter and son-in-law work at the Canadian company. Michelle obama's school buddy also works there as a VP. She started 6 weeks after the passage of obamacare ( passed late at night on a holiday with lots of bribes) obama knows all about this as obamacare is not about providing healthcare to anyone but a way to massively increase taxes and deny healthcare as punishment for not obeying the state. Example is myself in California. +$5,600 tax with $5,000 deductible. More then $10 grand I have to pay out for 1 person! More people today have lost their healthcare under obama. The estimate range from 50 million in 2013 to everyone come 2014! plus the millions and millions of people who have either lost their jobs or have had their hours reduced to 29/hrs. But don't worry as obama made sure he and congress and aids do not have to participate and use obamacare as you will be paying their medical care.

  65. Taxpayers want to know. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the car dug out of the ditch yet?

  66. Private enterprise does no better. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at the shitfest of a service that were the day-one releases of, for example, Diablo 3.

    Or the releases of the code that was retailed as "Battlefield 4".

    1. Re:Private enterprise does no better. by PPH · · Score: 1

      It's the MBA mindset of setting a goal and striving for it, no matter what. Once we set our sights on something, we can't be stopped. Not by the realities of the marketplace, the laws of physics or the US Federal Code. There is no surrender, retreat or regrouping.

      I think a lot of these people watched too many John Wayne marine corps movies. Where the squad charges the machine gun nest and keeps going until the hero lobs in the grenade. Except that the military doesn't really do things this way. But all the 4-F draft candidates and people who got shit college degrees for the deferral think that's the way things work.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  67. Typical by ksemlerK · · Score: 1

    You know when you're a liberal, when your plans don't coinside with reality, and you blame reality for the outcome; instead of the validity and viability of your plan.

  68. One website, over three years ... by drnb · · Score: 2

    False. 26 Republican States refused to create their own website by the December 31st 2012 deadline, forcing the Federal government to create 26 websites in less than a year.

    You are ill informed at multiple levels. (1) The federal government only needed a single website. There is only one federal exchange. (2) The federal government knew it needed this website as soon as the legislation was passed. They have had over three years to implement it.

  69. Abort, retry, ignore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, those are your only options...

  70. politics != science by h8sg8s · · Score: 1

    Proving once again (as if proof were needed) that science and politics are the worst possible companions. Read the Feynman Report on the Challenger disaster ( http://www.ralentz.com/old/space/feynman-report.html [among many others]) where he lambasts NASA decision makers for using politics-inspired wishful thinking instead of science to decide to launch over strenuous objections by staff scientists and engineers. This meme is seen throughout history as the politics of wishful thinking crash onto the iceberg of reality time and again.

    --
    Organization? You must be joking..
  71. SalesForce.com offered to write/mage it for free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SalesForce.com's CEO last week said they offered to write it for free and mange it for free for 5 years. All the wanted obviously was their name at the bottom for free advertising. Obama and minions said NO Way probable due to no kickbacks, no $600+ million to be spent on contractors. So now we have the Healthcare.gov POS site.

  72. Re:Oh, yes -- poor Republicans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, and the GOP also still see their underlying problem as a failure in messaging...

  73. The thing about failure not being an option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is when you will not survive the failure. Similar to the defensive command "Die in place".

  74. GWB knew that there were no WMDs by nbauman · · Score: 1

    George W Bush knew that there were no WMDs in Iraq, but he had to go ahead too.

    1. Re: GWB knew that there were no WMDs by will_die · · Score: 2, Informative

      Read some news from that time WMD were found just not the quanties the intelligence offices from almost the countries of the world said there were, Cuba and North Korea being some of the that said there were none.

    2. Re: GWB knew that there were no WMDs by pugugly · · Score: 1

      (Score:3, Informative)? <-- Seriously?
      Ah . . . no. Try (Score:-1 Counterfactual)

      New Undeclared WMD's were *reported* as found by Fox news, multiple times.

      And then they did much quieter retractions, multiple times.

      Only Chemical Weaponss were ever found, all of which were properly declared to the UN Weapons inspectors before the Iraq war.
      No weapons, Nuclear Biological *or* Chemical dating from after the 1991 Iraq war have *ever* been recovered in Iraq.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

      Anyone that says WMD's or evidence of ongoing programs for WMD's have been found in Iraq is lying to you.

      Pug

      --
      An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
  75. Single payer is not an option by nbauman · · Score: 1

    The system was doomed from the start.

  76. It's much deeper than the web site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The failure of Obamacare goes much deeper than this web site. It's just one of many indicators. When Nancy Pelosi said "we have to sign the bill, so we can find out what's in it" I knew exactly what that meant. Lot's of insurance companies and lawyers are going to make a lot of money and the general public will get less and pay more for the priviledge. Healthcare reform really needed to happen and what we got was a bunch of spineless politicians doing what they do best.

  77. Dunning-K by Safety+Cap · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure the guy at the top was in on the ruse too.

    By your comment, I'm pretty sure you've never worked a contract for government at a high level.

    For a reality-based perspective, understand that silos are DEATH to most projects, and government structures are ALL SILOS. The fact that every single one of the "senior political figures" refused (make no mistake--it is always an active decision) is just par for the course.

    So, how to change this? There are two key policies that must be implemented from the top:
    1) The career of anyone who lies or fails to report bad news up the chain to those who need it is over, regardless of that person's position.
    2) The reporting of bad news is to be treated as a problem to be solved, not an issue with the messenger (or the person who caused it).

    Example: at a major metropolitan newspaper, a tech made a mistake and rm -rf * the website's home directory. He immediately reported it up the chain and the team dropped everything and worked on restoring the files. They then sat down and discussed how to mitigate the problem so that human error could not cause the same situation or how it could be restored quicker when it happened again. No retaliatory action was taken against the tech.

    --
    Yeah, right.
  78. Soviets had the same problem by nbauman · · Score: 1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_1
    Prior to launch, Soyuz 1 engineers are said to have reported 203 design faults to party leaders, but their concerns "were overruled by political pressures for a series of space feats to mark the anniversary of Lenin's birthday."

  79. Re: by davide+marney · · Score: 1

    Only stupid executives think this way. Smart executives -- Jeff Bezos comes quickly to mind -- listen to engineers. Especially ones who suggest your company commoditize all the web service components you need, and then rent them to the world.

    --
    "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
  80. Re:Design / Managers think differently than Engine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some years back, our group had the task of creating a software system for internal project management. There was already an existing system; this was a major redesign. The project should not have been terribly complicated. It was a web-based system. We had one guy in our department who was primarily responsible for programming it. For the last two months, he was "working from home" to complete the project without any distractions. When launch day was approaching, we had a small-scale stress test, in which just the people in our department tried to use the web page. It crashed and burned, hard. It was a disaster.

    The thing the I never understood is that we had a staff meeting the next day, where our boss said that despite its problems, we had to release the new site to the rest of the departments on the previously-announced release date. And she wanted us to vote on it, and she wanted it to be a unanimous vote. I steadfastly refused; she said it was going to be very embarrassing for us if our release date slipped, and I said it was also going to be very embarrassing for us if we released a product that absolutely did not work.

    In the end, of course, I (and the few others who were willing to stand up to the boss) lost, and we released the product, and the VP called a meeting later that day of all of the managers, because the other departments were flat-out refusing to use it, after seeing how terrible it was. It was decided that we would continue to use the old site and that our group would take some more time to make the new site work. (Once we got the original programmer off of it and replaced him with someone who knew what they were doing, the new guy completely threw away all of the work that the old guy had done and started from scratch, completing the new site in a couple of weeks.)

    So, yes, Design and Management do seem to think differently. In this case, Management seemed to believe that putting one's fingers in one's ears and singing LALALA in the face of evidence that our product was completely useless was the best course of action.

  81. Fixed deadlines by evought · · Score: 1

    However the problem was there was a Legal Act of Congress saying this is when the website will need to be up and running.

    Sure, but there was no law against delivering incremental features early in order to gain experience and have a fallback in case of partial failure. As the article points out, they had (and are having) an incremental roll-out anyway, it's just a lousy incremental roll-out.

  82. Failure is not an option... it's a way of life by cliffjumper222 · · Score: 1

    I thought that was the phrase...

  83. Re:President surrendered leadership at the start . by sphealey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    = = = One of his first moves was to let partisan Nancy Pelosi take the lead = = =

    It is always easy to spot the breitbart.com fans in the office:

    1) They all subscribe to the "Nancy Pelosi as ultimate evil librul WITCH" theory - despite Pelosi being an ordinary centrist Democrat. Which is to say, a bit to the left of the DLC/Third Way, a bit more to the left of the neoliberals: just about at the median of US voters.

    2) They have no understanding of how a legislature that intends to endure for many years and which uses parliamentary rules of procedure, actually works

    3) They have no understanding of what the Speaker of the House's job actually is.

    sPh

    Pelosi is, to be sure, a very good political manager (and therefore a very effective Speaker of the House). Perhaps that is what makes her unforgivable compared to Boehner and - particularly - Cruz.

  84. Re:President surrendered leadership at the start . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    despite Pelosi being an ordinary centrist Democrat

    Pelosi is reliably elected by what is almost certainly the most wack-o community in the US. How many places in the US hold rallies for nudity? (I can't locate it at zombietime.com at the moment, but one of zombie's photo collections includes pictures of nude men at a street festival sporting their grapefruit-sized, air-inflated scrotums - real "centrist" stuff.)

    Which is to say, a bit to the left of the DLC/Third Way, a bit more to the left of the neoliberals: just about at the median of US voters.

    The DLC was/is nothing more than a ploy to disguise the leftist ideological bent of the Democrat Party leadership which is well to the left of most of the DP base and way, way to the left of US voters. The DP learned its lesson when Nixon destroyed McGovern in the 1972 election and the DP has been lying about its radical political agenda ever since. The actual median of US voters as revealed in issue-by-issue polls is in the direction of limiting govt to a degree much greater than that supported by the people running the Republican Party at the national level. The DP isn't even in the same frame of reference as the median US voter.

    They have no understanding of how a legislature that intends to endure for many years and which uses parliamentary rules of procedure, actually works

    On the contrary, they know exactly how an amoral, win-at-any-cost, use-any-means-necessary-to-attain-absolute-political-power cunt like Pelosi works. She has no respect for the rule of law or the US Constitution or the rights of American Citizens.

    Pelosi is, to be sure, a very good political manager

    No, she manages nothing. She is simply ruthless and devoid of conscience. She was very effective from 2008-2010, mostly because she was a hardcore ideologue who was dealing with a flaccid opposition party leadership. If she had to deal with an opposition party which was as committed to the desires of the American People as Pelosi was to her own ideological hunger for power, she would not have fared so well. Pelosi's real accomplishment was in brow-beating Democrats into voting for legislation that Americans did not want and which Democrats knew would severely damage their party for many years, particularly if Obamacare is ever repealed. That's not to say that Americans will ever forgive the DP for Obamacare, rather that Obamacare will allow the federal govt. to coercively suppress political dissent.

  85. Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "That sentiment was invented by a screenwriter, riffing on an after-the-fact observation about Apollo 13; no one said it at the time."

    If this is true, someone needs to talk to the tour guides at Houston NASA.

    1. Re:Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gene Kranz used it as the title of his 2000 book (after the movie, of course), but apparently he wasn't the only one to use the phrase. He wrote "These three astronauts were beyond our physical reach. But not beyond the reach of human imagination, inventiveness, and a creed that we all lived by: 'Failure is not an option.'"

  86. In the private world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...you'd roll this out in a smaller scale: Say for one or two states, learn from your mistakes, and then keep on chugging.

    I'm guessing this wasn't an option--legally or otherwise--for healthcare.gov.

  87. Re:President surrendered leadership at the start . by sphealey · · Score: 1

    = = = On the contrary, they know exactly how an amoral, win-at-any-cost, use-any-means-necessary-to-attain-absolute-political-power cunt like Pelosi works. = = =

    Just thought we should memorialize that as the deep, thoughtful, centrist political analysis of the Anonymous Coward at 45521181.

    sPh

  88. Barack Zaxxar Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not Zaxxar!

  89. Now on Slashdot: The weekly healthcare.gov feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one wondering why every week there is exactly one article by an anonymous reader on slashdot, telling us all how healthcare.gov is the greatest American catastrophe since Hurricane Katrina? Is that the regular Monday-morning work for a bored intern at some Republican organization? Trying to capture the geek vote before ... I don't know ... the Greens steal it or something?

  90. Re:President surrendered leadership at the start . by Rich0 · · Score: 1

    I've heard it argued that the only real way to find compromise is to do the deals in the back room. The problem is that you're not even allowed to talk about compromise in politics since things are so polarized, but the final law had a TON of compromise in it.

    So, you hash things out in a back room, and then everybody stands up and talks about how wonderful the resulting product is in lockstep. You don't have to talk about the bazillion compromises that were proposed and never accepted, just the ones that made it into the final agreement.

    The real problem is with voters who care more about sound bites than good policy. Our politicians pander to what gets them elected.

  91. Re:But the blood suckers don't have to pay anythin by catfood · · Score: 1

    First off, let's not call human beings blood suckers, okay?

    Second thing, having insurance--even if it's Medicaid--means you get preventive care and you get to see a regular doctor in a regular office for regular prices for ordinary things before they become emergencies. That's how it lowers the cost.

    That's not new information. You're just being disingenuous.

  92. Re:President had **no** choice on Bin Laden raid . by catfood · · Score: 1

    Yes, barely won, the margin of votes was small in key states that could have tipped the electoral college vote either way.

    Complete bullshit. Obama won the electoral vote 332 - 206. Suppose you give Romney all the close states, so anything less than a 55% win for Obama counts as a Romney state, okay? That gives Romney Florida (29), Ohio (18), and Virginia (13), changing the totals to Obama 272 - 266. You'd have to throw in Colorado (9), which Obama won by 5.37%, to make it a Romney win.

    You do know people can look things up and check your facts, right?

    Say what you want about the bin Ladin raid, about the ACA, about the website, whatever. But your point about the 2012 election being on the cusp is just completely wrong.

  93. blah, blah, blah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Me thinks that when the government dangles a huge wad of cash and says "make me a website", EVERYONE and their little brother becomes a "web expert". Add to that the twin demons of either giving the contract to one of your cronies or giving it to the lowest bidder, and it becomes obvious that this thing was doomed to fail.

    What about healthcare.gov makes it any more complicated than Amazon.com, Walmart.com, or even Newegg.com?

    Amazon.com is amazing! A zillion different products sold by a zillion different vendors, all available for adding to your shopping cart, and shipped to your door in 5 days or less in most cases. Healthcare.gov doesn't even have a shipping requirement.

    It's NOT the engineering that painted the egg on the President's face...

    It's the politics.

  94. Are we all really that stupid? by Benders · · Score: 1

    The President knew. He didn't want to know. But, he knew. At the beginning and end of each day, he is a Community Organizer, and that is all he is. He has no Executive experience of any kind. He has never been trained as an Executive, just as a Lawyer, that has focused on ways to get around the Constitution of the USA, period. He has trained himself on how to usurp the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. He has no financial training or experience. He has nothing going for him to even suggest he has Presidential capabilities. He only knows one formula for accomplishing anything. That is to divide and concur. Get two factions locked in combat with each other so he can do what he wants while they fight. When you start tallying up his accomplishments what do you come up with? He has spent more money than any President, ever. Is that a good accomplishment? He has single-handedly created more Government bureaucracies than any other 4 Presidents combined. Good or bad? He has dismantled our military leadership, and invited our Enemy's military onto our soil. Good idea or bad? He has lied to the country on so many occasions that the average citizen now has to assume he is lying to them whenever he speaks. He has wielded his Presidential power to attack, cripple, or just block all that do not share his ideology about anything. All of our bureaucracies that were originally empowered to enforce our Laws, Taxes, etc. have been converted into his personal attack-dogs, for his personal use. Good or Bad? He signed the "Unknown piece of Legislation" known as the Affordable Care Act into Law with absolutely no idea how to go about implementing it, or even understanding the huge amount of complexity of our National Healthcare system, or even how to go about fixing those areas he felt were lacking. Obama doesn't even have enough common sense to understand how to eat an elephant. He believes it must be consumed in one bite. Maybe someone with as big a mouth as he has doesn't consider that an impossibility, but the impossibility is still there. In his Signature Legislation, he has doomed many Americans to death due to lack of healthcare, when its expressed purpose was supposedly exactly the opposite!

  95. Re:President surrendered leadership at the start . by drnb · · Score: 1

    I've heard it argued that the only real way to find compromise is to do the deals in the back room.

    Perhaps if *both* sides go into the back room. However when only one side goes into the back room with their lobbyists and special interests in tow you do not get compromise. You get partisanship, and guess how the other party responds, with more partisanship.

    ... the final law had a TON of compromise in it.

    Compromise between liberal democrats and conservative democrats. That doesn't really count.

  96. Re:President had **no** choice on Bin Laden raid . by drnb · · Score: 1

    Yes, barely won, the margin of votes was small in key states that could have tipped the electoral college vote either way.

    Complete bullshit. Obama won the electoral vote 332 - 206. Suppose you give Romney all the close states, so anything less than a 55% win for Obama counts as a Romney state, okay? That gives Romney Florida (29) [at 50%], Ohio (18) [at 51%], and Virginia (13) [at 51%], changing the totals to Obama 272 - 266. You'd have to throw in Colorado (9) [at 51%], which Obama won by 5.37%, to make it a Romney win.

    You are only including the states that had a 51.5% or less win for Obama, not 55% as claimed. You failed to consider Pennsylvania (20) at 52%, New Hampshire (4) at 52%, Iowa (19) at 52%, Nevada (6) at 52%, Minnesota (10) at 53%, Wisconsin (10) at 53%, New Mexico (5) at 53%, Michigan (16) at 54%, and Oregon (7) at 54%

    Basically 64 electoral votes needed to flip. Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania represent 67 and there Obama's vote represent less than 52%. But lets go with the math you actually used (margin) rather than the math you claimed to have used. Why not go from a 5.37% margin to 5.39% it only a different of 0.02%? Then we can include Pennsylvania (20)

    So, a 5.4% swing could have made it a solid Romney electoral college victory. As the NY Times reported, the President received an 11% favorability boost from the successful raid. Suppose we generously expect only a swing of half that magnitude when the October surprise leak occurs **right before** the election informing the public of a decision **not** to conduct the raid. That's 5.5%. Now consider how much of that 11% faded by election day, lets generously assume three quarters of it evaporated, so that by election day the boost was only 2.75%. We are looking at a 8.25% shift from favorable to unfavorable by flipping the decision from go to "no go".

    You do know people can look things up and check your facts, right?

    Apparently not you, saying lets go with 55% states but only including 51.5% states.

    Say what you want about the bin Ladin raid, about the ACA, about the website, whatever. But your point about the 2012 election being on the cusp is just completely wrong.

    Whether we use your erroneously stated argument, or your unintentionally used argument, its pretty clear that flipping the Bin Laden raid story from go to "no go" could have easily changed the election. All it took was a 1% shift in Florida, a 3% shift in Ohio and a 5.4% shift in Pennsylvania.

  97. Re:President surrendered leadership at the start . by drnb · · Score: 1

    = = = One of his first moves was to let partisan Nancy Pelosi take the lead and also take the process into the back rooms with lobbyists in tow. = = =

    It is always easy to spot the breitbart.com fans in the office:

    Really? I don't think I've been to Breitbart's website.

    1) They all subscribe to the "Nancy Pelosi as ultimate evil librul WITCH" theory - despite Pelosi being an ordinary centrist Democrat.

    Really? I called her partisan, not "evil witch". I'll go further and suggest her agenda is different than the President's, which leads to the confusion over his surrendering leadership to her.

    In any case, thanks for your amusing post. You truly identified the political hack whose mind exists in some strange bubble, yourself.

  98. Tee hee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Im president of the Solar System, yet I can't spell "Im"

  99. Driven by bureaucrats demands, not tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Science and Engineering are not the all and all, but the people trained in them are what allows implementation of mechanical and technical realities.

    The BOCare web site was wishing. Changing demands, not defining a 'direction' with appropriate limits and letting the techies do their thing.

    Most of us say security, works for desired function (functionally, artistically, ergonomically, logically), within budget, maintainable are the 4 top hot buttons.

    Every time a operational requirement changes more than superficial things once the design has been well defined, costs LOTS of money. Think of building a house, then deciding you want the front door moved 1' left or right, then move it back after it was completed, then enlarge the windows by 3" all the way around. Once that is done, reduce the size by 4" on one side. After marble counters and sinks are installed, you change your mind and want Formica because it is 'cheaper'. And all the developer/builder does is say 'OK, sign this change order so I can bill you more'. Without thinking, government customers seem to do this, without having to come up with 'reasonable' documented justification.

    I worked for an oil company that was having lots of project overruns. The root cause was just because of this type of changes. Low level, not-financially-responsible individuals put in change orders they were 'allowed' to do, but they never reported they did it, but the company was billed for the 'add a door',
    'move a window' orders after the buildings were built (but before being 'accepted'). Stopping those things happening, brought projects back within budget. Changes could still be made, but the ONLY accepted change orders were signed by financially responsible management (whos jobs were on the line for function as well as budget). If changes were needed for safety or required for the project to perform, they were approved, no problem. 'Cosmetics' or 'whim' changes just didn't get approved.

    The Pres is supposed to be a director, big picture, and policy maker, but enough of a manager to get people around that know what they are doing and do it. BO has not set the 'right direction' and has made appointments that do not work 'for the people' but are trying to 'enhance a perceived legacy'. Like it or not, the Pres lives in public housing, paid for by tax $$ that many of us earn. It isn't 'free money' to spend, it is money that could be used for better education, research (medical and science), roads and bridges, or better, not taking it from the folks that earned it in the first place it it isn't used for the 'public good'.