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With Burning Teslas In the News Ford Recalls Almost 140,000 Escapes
An anonymous reader writes "Tesla received a lot of attention over the Model S fires recently, but they're not the only car company having issues with spontaneous combustion. Ford has issued a recall on almost 140,000 Ford Escapes for potential engine fires. With little media attention on the recall, Musk might have a point about the unfair treatment Tesla gets in the news."
I do not think it means what you think it means.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
Could be that Tesla supplies Ford!
If so, then Ford sees a BIG PROBLEm.
We know Musk is an a card carrying idiot and now Ford sees its Tesla parts supply chain the same.
Ditto.
PS Musk's "empire" is burning all around him. He'll soon file for unemployment "grub steak."
Tou da lu my lov
You can always tell a pioneer by the arrows in his back.
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You're shifting it wrong!
Nope. Its been brought up hundreds of times before on /, and I've been assured by liberals that any bias I hear in the media is my own imagination, except Fox News. Since Fox isn't the only ones doing Tesla fire stories I can assure you that there is no bias in this and the Ford story must be a non-story.
Is it possible to get a +5 flamebait?
Of course Tesla is getting lots of press, it's because electric cars are new. People (especially Americans) do not like change, they assume that the old way is the best way. With every new technology, you'll have those old bastards still crying about how their gas engines never did this (Even though they do, and on a much larger scale).
The same press will plague the driverless car. Once one or two accidents happen the media will be in an uproar and so will the populace.
Maybe the media scrutiny is that Tesla's actually caught fire, and Ford is proactively recalling because there is a potential fire?
I've never known a CEO to be so thin-skinned as Musk. Whether it's a rocket with a failed engine or a battery that goes dead, civil, honest doubt about his products is consistently painted a dishonest, malicious slander.
His brand-new, untested cars caught fire. It was in the news because it was a new thing.
No one is out to get him, and if the machines are as safe as he is making them out to be then that will be proven with time. For now, him and his fanatical followers need to relax.
With little media attention on the recall, Musk might have a point about the unfair treatment Tesla gets in the news.
Well you haven't factored in that with a name like "Escape", you know the outcome of any fires will be fine. No such assurance strapping yourself into something named after a guy who lit 200 lightbulbs from a power source 26 miles away.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
More like, "A paid Tesla shill writes."
whether to repeat gloves, cond-oms
Who cares if Elon Musk could have a talking point. Who would care if Musk made the point?
Ford is doing a voluntary recall after 12 fires in just under 150,000 vehicles, or 0.008% of vehicles sold. Tesla is not doing a recall after 3 fires in @ 20,000 vehicles sold, or 0.015% of vehicles sold. Why is the different media attention any surprise?
Puncture either, problems ensue. 3 fires due to punctured battery don't exactly make a car "unsafe at any speed" like the Pinto, Mustang, etc.
Ford will recall and repair 139,917 cars because of 12 fires. Tesla downplays battery fires.
Ford has to physically implement a fix for the cars in question.
Telsa, in theory, has reduced the risk via software patch that makes the car rider higher at speed (to the annoyance of some owners).
Personally I think Telsa should also probably figure out some kind of better under-armor, but it's not like they have done nothing at all.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
-November 26: 139,917 Ford Escape vehicles from 2013, Recalled for potential oil leaks that may cause an engine fire.
-November 18: 707,176 Chrysler vehicles from 2003-2008, including RAM 2500 4X4 and RAM 1500 Mega Cab 4X4 models, Recalled for the left tie rod assembly, which may break, causing a loss of steering.
-November 18: 265,044 Chrysler RAM 2500 4X4 and 3500 4X4 vehicles from 2008-2012, Recalled for the left tie rod assembly, which may break, causing a loss of steering.
-November 4: 344,187 Honda Odysseys from 2007-2008, Recalled for software that may cause the sudden application of the brakes without the brake lights going on, increasing the risk of a crash.
Not all are due to fire, but all are potentially fatal, and much higher number of cars recalled.
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"Tesla received a lot of attention over the Model S fires recently, but they're not the only car company having issues with spontaneous combustion. Ford has issued a recall on almost 140,000 Ford Escapes for potential engine fires. With little media attention on the recall, Musk might have a point about the unfair treatment Tesla gets in the news."
How many of the Escapes have caught on fire, dumbass?
Yo mama was SO FUCKING STUPID, she fucked yo daddy!
I am no fan of Musk or current electric cars but the fire/safety issue has been seriously overblown. More likely to catch fire in a 10 year old car by far, and as we have seen by the number of recalls posted above, many NEW vehicles have far more severe issues.
While I would not buy a current Tesla, it may be possible in the next few years to buy a hybrid that meets my needs and costs less than 25k.
And like it or not, EVERY manufacturer that is actually selling product in the electric or hybrid niches is helping to improve the products and lower the prices.
Tesla more than most.
Teslas are PROVEN to be very good cars as long as the mileage constraint doesn't impact you.
And you have enough money to help underwrite the R&D process for the rest of us.
In addition, there's a difference between a sample size of 150k and 20k. 12 out of 150k is a much more meaningful number than 3 out of 20k. In addition, Ford has developed a physical fix, while Tesla was able to impliment a fix via software update. If they chose to follow that up with a hardware fix, that has to be designed and implimented.
Given that the incidents in question were all after collisions that probably would have totaled most vehicle anyways, and were nice enough to wait long enough for the people to evacuate the car, I'm not sure it's as serious of an issue as 'spontaneously combusts while parked'.
I don't read AC A human right
Yes I want a car with a spontaneous combustion engine! It might not take me to my destination when I want it to, but it will be very exciting to drive.
/ The Arrow
"How lovely you are. So lovely in my straightjacket..." - Nny
Witch Burning Teslas In the News Ford Recalls Almost 140,000 Escapes
The patch to make the car ride higher is going to mess with the handling and is probably mostly just a publicity stunt. I'd be happier if they hadn't done anything at all and just continued saying 'the car is safe, only the engine bay was damaged by the fire'.
Likes Tesla enough to feature one in an episode of 'Two And A Half men", so it must be fabulous to the knuckle-dragging, self-important, pseudo-intellectual, "Big Bang Theory"-watching sluggard hipsters who idolize and follow new-age 'messiahs" such as Obama and Musk.
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Yeah, it was happily parked, until I walked past, and laid a thermite grenade on the hood.
Your credibility (wait, AC and credibility?) takes a hit, when you claim that a parked vehicle burst into flames. I have seen a lot of vehicles on fire, but never a parked vehicle that just suddenly decided to warm itself up. I'll bet you didn't see the fire marshall's report, which probably made mention of an electronic device that was left turned on, or some other logical explanation.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
I'm not sure. I don't quite bite. I've only seen most of the Tesla fire stories here...and most of them in defense of Tesla. However, I've seen plenty of stories about other car companies having plenty of problems everywhere. I don't think Tesla is being unfairly criticized, but I think the community that has arisen to defend them is extremely vocal...to the point that they actually make the stories about the fires more prevalent. Hell, one story here talked about how common car fires are in general, so why is this now news?
From my point of view: the people making the biggest fuss are the people who are decrying the "big fuss" around the fires. There's probably a term for this - feels, Streisandish...
.... hating on electric cars is illogical... worse case scenario is that you choose not to buy one. Believe me, this topic gets the best astroturfing oil money can buy.
"With little media attention on the recall, Musk might have a point about the unfair treatment Tesla gets in the news."
- Ford builds a combustion engine that relies on explosions to run.
- Tesla builds an engine which removes the need for engine combustion completely, yet, still creates an explosion and fire.
Tesla are getting the wrap they deserve. The whole idea of an electrical car is to remove the need for combustion/explosions altogether.
Whilst a engine should never "explode", a combustion engine technically is every time its running.
I really find Tesla has a childish attitude "Why do they always pick on us. Our battery life is great, your wrong, look at our internal 200 page report".
Maybe a different approach of "How can we resolve this? Lets make electric cars better" would work more in their favour?
Unexplanied fires are a matter for the courts.
Model Ssss- I mean Canyonero.
I'll buy that, but not for the reason you think.
Calling someone a hater means that you don't think they're capable of accepting rational argument. Most haters aren't capable of accepting rational argument. So, if you've applied good, solid, rational argument, and opened yourself up for rebuttal, but get nothing but hate in return, you're dealing with a hater. It may be socially frowned upon, but there really is nothing wrong with calling them out on it. They probably won't stop if you do, but they definitely won't stop if you don't.
(But be warned. Name calling is the first resort of the willfully ignorant, and the second resort of hate mongers. Most people who have called me a hater have been haters themselves. Ironic, but that's life.)
Ford has to physically implement a fix for the cars in question. Telsa, in theory, has reduced the risk via software patch that makes the car rider higher at speed (to the annoyance of some owners). Personally I think Telsa should also probably figure out some kind of better under-armor, but it's not like they have done nothing at all. -- Magento Product Labels Magento One Step Checkout | Magento Gift Wrap Magento Mega Menu | Magento POS
Yes, there certainly are some "news" outlets that are paid to hate Tesla, but for most it's just:
Tesla: interesting, new, sexy; Ford: old, boring, yawn
Ford recalls 140,000 escapes
Conveniently forgets about the 200,000 that didn't escape...
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Ford recalled 140k cars over a couple fires ... just like Tesla had.
Musk refuses to acknowledge there even might BE a problem.
There aren't 140k Tesla's in existence in total.
Ford actually is fixing the issue. Tesla is refusing to admit there IS an issue.
The issue exists because Musk and his engineers are arrogant pricks who think they know more than they do regardless of the fact that its a brand new car company with no experience.
The Ford Escape costs $22k. The Tesla Model S ... 70k.
And one more time for those not paying attention: Ford issued a recall and is fixing the problem ... Tesla is refusing to even acknowledge the potential problem.
I don't know about you, but I'll take the guy who fixes the problem over the guy who refuses to acknowledge it exists even when he watches it happen himself on video.
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The things that the two Teslas that burned out hit would have totaled any comparable sized gasoline car, likely causing hurt to the people in the car and very likely created hazardous oil spills. The people inside the car would not have had the chance to drive the car to a safe location to get out safely, but would have had to leave the car in the middle of a busy road, if they would have been able to get out at all. The chance that more vehicles would have been crashed, possibly hitting the original vehicle is quite real in such a scenario. Maybe there wouldn't have been a fire with the gasoline cars in these situation, but in terms of hazard or financial damage, the gasoline cars would most likely have been less safe and more expensive in a similar situation. Cleanup of oil spills is a lot more expensive than just putting out a fire, even if it was an electric car fire.
The third Tesla was crashed by a drunk guy and almost the entire undercarriage was knocked off. That may have not caused a fire if it had been a gasoline car, but it most certainly was not road debris.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Tesla's under armor is quarter inch aluminum plating. The only way to seriously improve on that would be to put something engine sized, shaped and weighed in the front trunk to take the blow. There are a large number of disadvantages to do so, both in daily usage and in safety. The car would be way heavier and you'd have a large lump of metal causing all sorts fo hurt and damage in case of a frontal crash. You can armor a car against all sorts of conceivable harm, but there's a practical limit. I think that Tesla thought of these scenarios and weighed out all options and scenarios and came to this compromise for a reason.
So far, the Tesla cars have worked as designed. Flames coming out may seem scary, but in reality, nobody got hurt and costs haven't been that different when compared to a similarly sized and priced gasoline car in the same situation. These cars have some rather fundamental differences to gasoline cars and we have yet to come to terms with that. If you look at statistics for gasoline cars, which have rather low standard deviations, you'd see that they aren't exactly safe in comparable crashes, nor in fire hazard safety. Because of the low number of Teslas and the short time they are around, it's extremely hard to say something statistically about them yet. All we get to read about are three crashes where they caught fire due to the battery compartment getting pierced. We have no idea how they are going to hold in the first 100000 crashes they will have, ranging from fender benders to getting squashed between two large trailers or falling off a cliff. I'm sure we'll see some things where a Tesla will do worse than the average gasoline car in those circumstances, but we'll also be seeing situations where they will be doing better. Tesla have but a lot of thought to the design of their car and they have used the possibilities of rearranging the complete propulsion to improve on safety in a lot of cases. Their simulations and internal testing have proven their choices to be the safest compromise they could come up with. So far, real world crashes have not significantly changed their safety model. There probably will be incidents in the future where they can only say "we didn't think of that", but these fires aren't one of them.
Keep in mind, cars aren't designed to be safe, they are designed to be affordable, attractive, profitable and pass mandatory safety tests. Ralph Nadar changed that perspective momentarily, but we've only been going through small iterations in safety regulations since that. Car companies mostly have been improving as a reaction to those iterations. Only a few car companies have actively been improving their designs without the pressure of regulations or comparative crash tests. Most companies will only test cars to give good results in common tests that they know their vehicle will be rated on. Once they receive a good or excellent grade in those tests, they're done. They know how to improve safety on their vehicles, but they can't justify the cost of that because they won't be able to recuperate those in a higher sales price. A good example of this is Saab. They lost, because they couldn't make their cars competitively priced, even though they were safer in a lot of circumstances. People just aren't aware, or not prepared to pay for the extra safety. Maybe it's time another Ralph Nader would submit the 50 most popular cars on the road this day to a 55mph rear impact, or a t-bone. Even the regular sized dummies have a very low survival rate in such crashes. Car companies know how to make those crashes survivable, they prepare their race cars in such a way that almost always, inhabitants of those can just walk away from such crashes. Maybe they should start testing with real world testing dolls. Use the extremes of the human physique to test with so you can assume that anybody in between those extremes will be safe. A non-overweight 5.5-6ft doll might not get hurt in a crash, but over 50% of inhabitants of vehicles are so far from that, that they will get hurt in a sim
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Toyota gets the shaft - silly Amelicans!
Nothing is perfect. Percent of bad products is the key, not pure quantity. ( and how its taken care of afterward )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
From TFA, "9,469 Escape are being re-recalled. There have been no fires."
Ford is recalling the 2013 escape. no fires, there might be potential fires it's a voluntary recall.
Telsa has had 3 fires, no voluntary recalls, won't even admit there's a problem.
That's why Tesla get shit in the news. Take of your bias goggles.
did you forget to take your meds?
There were 30 road crashes in the USA yesterday that caused several cars to catch fire (i.e. the total number of cars catching fire was more than 60).
All of them petrol cars.
Mostly Ford and GM. I do not believe any of them were Escapade. One or two may have been.
So are Ford and GM recalling another 20 lines because they catch fire in a road traffic accident?
No?
Are they even acknowledging the problem that petrol can combust and this is a dangerous thing?
No?
So why pick on Tesla?
Ford sells how many vehicles and how many models? Telsa has a history of how many vehicles sold?
And Tesla's safety record? How many months old is it? Testing facility at Tesla is a joke compared to any other manufacturer and
only those with more money or sperm cells than brain cells would buy one.
Ford is doing a recall on an event that occured at roughly 8 times less rate than Teslas fires. They didn't gloss over it and say everything is perfect. They took a good amount of time to determine if there was an issue and came to the conclusion that there is. It's a voluntary recall.
So quite where you think you're going with this is unknown.
Note that sample size means:
Tesla 1-5 such events may happen with the next similar size sample. 0.005%-0.025%
Ford: 8-16 such events may happen with the next similar size sample. 0.006%-0.012%
Second: those events with Tesla were in collisions. How many Fords have caught fire in a collision, not due to defect? You need to add those numbers in to that 12 figure.
Tesla is catching fire at a rate 3.5x that of those Ford Escapes (12/139K over 2 years vs 3/20K over 1 year). What I wonder - which car fire is more toxic/dangerous for the environment and first responders? My inclination is to say the Tesla.
With Tesla it is news, with Ford is just Business As Usual
RTFA. Ford is not recalling all vehicles. it is recalling the 2013 Ford Escape.
did you forget to take your meds?
Maybe they can successfully rebrand this as a challenge!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Anyone who thinks anyone is getting treated fairly in the "news" needs to research who owns the news outlets, who censors them, and who decides what it is people are told to think. Of course, anyone who has such a problem is certainly not reading slashdot.
Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
http://www.ksbw.com/news/central-california/santa-cruz/santa-cruz-cyclist-struck-by-motorist-on-hwy-1-dies/-/5738976/22778526/-/ocirx/-/index.html
The cars that have been around in the past 10 years have had no problems, yet newer cars have design flaws. Who the hell is designing this garbage?