Slashdot Mirror
UK Men Arrested For Anti-Semitic Tweets After Football Game
magic maverick writes "Reuters reports that three men were arrested for posting anti-Semitic comments on Twitter following the English Premier League match between Tottenham Hotspur and West Ham United in October, police said on Friday. 'Two men, aged 22 and 24, were arrested on Thursday in London and in Wiltshire, while a 48-year-old man was arrested at his home in Canning Town in London last week on suspicion of inciting racial hatred. The investigation following the match on October 6 was triggered by complaints about tweets that referred to Hitler and the gas chambers.'
I guess it goes to show, you'd be stupid to use your real name or identifying details on Twitter. Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof)."
Perhaps racist behaviour should be punished independent of any mindless "free speech" worship.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Islam could be dominant UK religion in 10 years â" census analysis.
http://rt.com/news/christianity-decline-uk-islam-rise-405/
I'm certain that these arrests won't have the desired effect, and I'd venture a bet that they'll foster feelings similar to those of the original tweets - a verbal Streisand effect. I'm confused what the police (and vicariously, those that push for harsh laws pertaining to what may be tweeted) are trying to accomplish here. This isn't good for anyone.
Wtf did they say exactly?
It appears Britain is trying to legislate a polite and sterile society rather than a free society. People need thicker skins, not laws to protect their feelings from being hurt.
How can it be illegal to be racist? I mean - I know it's socially unacceptable and personally I know it's wrong to be racist - but illegal?
The remedy to unwanted speech is speech. And only speech. Any other efforts go towards some purpose other than remedying unwanted speech.
Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof)."
You could be arrested for the same activity in the US under the 18 USC 245 -- Federally protected activities, act. There is the first amendment, but there is some separation between constitutional theory, and law enforcement fact. You might or might not ultimately prevail incourt.
Like it or not, everyone is to some degree racist. It's a byproduct of evolution and protecting "DNA like mine".
One doesn't need to act upon it. One doesn't need to even talk in support of it. But prosecuting for an off-the-cuff remark is very close to prosecuting for thoughts, and everyone has that thought at one point or another. Everyone being guilty may be profitable for some in locales now with essentially for-profit corporate "crime management", but it isn't a sane basis for setting a legal bar if the interests of the populace is the objective.
Intolerance to racism is just as bad as the racists being intolerant of other races.
Actually it could even be argued that the state is more wrong here.
It has a responsibility to be BETTER than the racists. And instead they prove they are not.
And are simply enforcing a view under threat of law. Might makes right.
A much worse view than just being racist...
You're not helping.
My racial hatred is confined to family gathering where I can blame it on my own blood and the alcohol provided.
"Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof)." -- While I am all in support of the right of free speech (excluding the "yelling fire in a crowded theater kind"), isn't it a bit pretentious for somebody not a citizen or residing within a given country to tell them they need to work at making their laws more like your own? If I'm not mistaken, in a strict legal sense, the USA is amongst the minority.
In the United States, Antisemitism overwhelmingly comes from the political left, both the Occupy Wall Street crowd and the victimhood identity politics left that regard Islamists and Palestinians as protected species.
There are also significant amounts of Antisemitism among liberal black politicians. Indeed, Jesse Jackson seems to have lost no political influence after calling new York City Hymietown.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof).
The British (and the Europeans) have perfectly adequate laws against hate-speech, which is what these comments were likely caught by. Just because you don't know what those laws are, understand how or why they came about, or how their application works, doesn't mean they necessarily need to be reformed.
Because the "right" would have had absolutely no issues with the men for tweeting anti-"Arab" messages.
Those "raghead" jokes will always be popular, but woe betide the dumb bastard who ever criticizes Jews or Israel.
It's with enormous regret that I can say this as both a Jew and an Israeli.
Somewhere, sometime we lost whatever tolerance and sense of humor we may once have possessed.
(Yes, I know: Someone will instantly reply "In Auschwitz and Dachau." How astute of you.)
Your freedom stops, where someone else's nose begins.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Your freedom stops where other people's hurt feelings begin.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Words only have as much power as you allow them to. Grow up, grow a pair and stop being an emotional little bitch and there is no problem.
In the US hateful speech is prosecuted by society. The outcome (censure) is exactly the same as if the govt prosecuted it, but society takes longer and exacts more pain and suffering for everyone involved. Take the example of Keegstra in Canada. He taught schoolchildren in Alberta that the holocaust didn't happen etc. Naturally people were outraged, and the gov't --- which belongs to the people --- prosecuted him. As a result Keegstra got his day in court. In court you have to take responsibility for what you say. If you speak the truth, then no worries, the truth is an absolute defense. Also, hate speech has a close legal definition, it doesn't mean speech Bob doesn't like hearing from Bill. If what you say is not legally hateful, then again, no worries. OTOH if you reveal yourself to be an ignorant bigot, then everyone learns exactly why you're an ignorant bigot, and you have a problem. Keegstra had a problem. He was found guilty and sentenced to 100 years in solitary confinement. No I'm just kidding. People don't go to jail for jibber jabber in Canada. Keegstra paid a fine and can never teach again. That's basically the last anyone has heard of him. It's the perfect outcome. If Keegstra pulled that stunt in the US you'd probably still be fighting a cultural war he started and that only people like him want, and that's just stupid.
Hate is the defamation of a group.
For example, I hate those who defame blacks by proclaiming blacks to have a higher crime rate than whites.
I hate those who defame Jews by proclaiming Jews to have disproportionate influence relative to their numbers.
I hate those who defame the poor by proclaiming the poor to have lesser capabilities than the rich.
I hate those who defame the rich by proclaiming the rich to have engaged in unfairly acquired their wealth.
I hate those who say that ugly people are ugly.
I hate those who say criminals are criminal.
Hate is Great!
Seastead this.
I find it remarkable that the world we live today, especially those in the West, people are trying to outdo each others in the "I am the best counter-racist there is" competition.
Who is *NOT* a racist ?
Who *DARE* to say that he or she is absolutely 100% free of racism ?
I am not here saying that racism is a good thing, but to point out that RACE is something that is deeply ingrained into what we are.
It's in our psyche, it's in the genes, man.
And regarding "Hate Speech" ... this bastard child of the Political Correct movement is DOING MORE HARM than good in the society.
What actually constitutes a "Hate Speech" ?
If you call a black a "nigger" is it a hate speech ?
Then what if a black person calls another black person a "nigger", is that a hate speech too ??
How about calling a Chinese a "chink", is that a hate speech ?
As a Chinese, (I can only speak for myself) I've met people who tend to describe me with many kinds of very very creative adjectives, and whenever that happen, you know what I do ?
I say "Thank you".
I thank them for letting me know how they feel about me.
It's better that I know how they feel about me up front, than to have someone who keep their grudges hidden and then backstab me at any given chance they get.
Furthermore, I respect their human rights - including their rights to say whatever they want, with their mouths.
Let me put it this way ...
I am born with a mouth, a mouth that is belonged to me. Ever since I was born, I have had the veto power over my own mouth, which includes each and every single words that I've spoken.
And as I do not wish to have other people having the veto power over my own mouth, I do not want to have the same veto power to control other people's mouths.
For me, this "Hate Speech" thing by itself is hateful.
It's a tool used by hateful people to limit other people's rights.
It's a tool to propagate hate, to make the society more hateful.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It is impossible to form an informed opinion without knowing what they actually said. The article does not elaborate, but it does give some general guidelines. Even as a Jewish Israeli, I have to admit those guidelines are worrying:
Supporters of the club often chant "Yid Army" and "Yiddo" at matches, using a term deemed offensive by some in the Jewish community, but fan groups say the term is used as a badge of honor rather than a derogatory remark.
However, the governing Football Association and police have warned that using the word "Yid" could lead to prosecution and a ban on attending matches.
Okay, so the "badge of honor" claim is bull. These are offensive. They are not (or, at least, should not), however, be criminal.
In my book, it is okay to ban fans who use those terms from attending plays (which is what "more speech" and social consequences is all about), but not, in itself, proper cause to open a criminal investigation.
Shachar
This is another legacy of Traitor Blair, there is really no bloblem, as soon as someone ths the guts to indict the UK Government at the ECHR in Strasbourg thin nonsense will hit a brick wall!
This is a ToS violation, I've made it a habit not to cuss or flame on the written in stone Internet
(if/when my kids search me out) the point being glad I don't do the social networks; I do have a twitter account of many years
that I've never really used, but it's not my real name.
I have youtube and a Gmail account that have become joined at the hip, I log on as Trax and am always asked :}
if I'd rather use my real name Penny Wise
Amazing how people frequently bash Muslims, Asians, and Arabs in the UK and nothing happens (even full EDL and BNP rallies in the street), yet an anti-Semitic tweet is cause for arrest. Both are disgusting, but either legalize or ban both.
Last time I checked, it was the Occupy sites which got hijacked by writings about the "Zionist USA".
Ever consider why the Occupy sites got hijacked ?
Because they WANTED their sites to be hijacked!
Those original proponents of Occupy movement themselves are antisemitic, but they do not want to be identified as such.
So they purposely let their sites to be " HIJACKED " by those who are pro-arab, pro-palestine.
Case in point: When those terrorist supporters post all their anti-Jewish articles, do you see any objection from the original proponents of the Occupy Movement ?
'To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.' - Voltaire
It's things that make me glad I live in a free country.
But you, concentrating on the "maybe" as if it were the only correct answer gets a +2 informative as an AC, whereas the OP gets +1Troll from a named account, likely from +2.
Its as if the "maybe" means "MUST" and only that version is allowed.
You see, absent any government law, someone making such hate full comments to me would get a severe kicking.
Why should government power be used to suppress me and support the retarded little twat deserving a smack in the mouth?
Nothing comvinces the haters they're right than being free to say AND DEFENDED TO SAY IT by others.
I think that if you're into football so much that it causes emotional happiness/rage, then that's a prison enough. Other people that are not so affected should pitty these people, as they have nothing else.
Using their same logic (and I'm assuming that they are trying to stop people from saying mean things, and it escalating into some physical rage), they should ban football, because of the rage that it causes every game. There's always a winner and there's always a loser. The only thing that allows for these games to be played is that there is (supposed to be) freedom of speech.
Although, honestly, I feel that since there is such emotional value that comes along with sports, there should be some level of responsibility from those that ref the game. If the "sports heroes" are doing things that will spark rage in the crowd (ridiculous penalties, fighting, whatever), then the refs should just stop the game, or the "sports heroes" should be arrested.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Yep, I'm not free to marry a little girl, even though I'd like too, even though my religion and various others (including old testament (read deuteronomy 22 28-29 in hebrew if you doubt relations with girl children is fine), muslim religion, vedic religion etc) say it's fine. Because you and your society say I am not free to take that action.
I hate your society but it has taken over all the world.
I wish I had a ring of free action to take you down fuks.
It is just U.K. media propaganda it is meant to intimidate people. They the police make an arrest the arrest is reported by the news agency usually the BBC but the dismissal of criminal charges is never reported. They believe the tactics work they have used them with anti Islamic speech classing it as incitement to racial hatred. Islam is not a racial group it's a religion. The U.K. media especially the BBC believe that reporting an untruth that has an effect on the general public is worth it. Moses said to Joseph all Jews have long noses. Why don't Jewish cannibals like eating Germans? they give them gas. My name and address and telephone number is on my domain name take my word for it I know these type of things this story is propaganda it is meant to intimidate. There are famous anti-Jewish publications in the British library "the professor and the untrustworthy corruption of society by the Jews" and so on. This news report is a old news report and the propaganda did not work as it was reported as not working so why this story pop back up again I don't know it is old news now.
[Decadent, Gay, Romany, Mentally and physically handicapped, and Jewish]
Just to remind you that many of them were Socialists, Communists, Jehovah's Witnesses or common criminals. It's strange to see an enumeration that leaves them out.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
What makes you an idiot, and all those who qualified you as insightful, is that you fall for the trippe that race exists.
Oooooh, you are sooooooo adorable !
Race doesn't exist, huh ?
Yeah, right.
I bet gender doesn't exist as well, right ?
Is racial hatred any worse than other types of hatred?
Who decides what is hatred?
I am deeply white (I prefer cold climate so that does not help with sun exposition), but if I move to south california and go in the sun every day, my melanine amount will spike and I will get all brown
I must admit that I am deeply troubled by reading your own description of yourself.
Call me a nincompoop, but in my whole life I've NEVER met a deeply white person who can change his/her skin color to "all brown".
Please tell me, are you a mutant ?
Something like a chameleon which can change skin color on a whim ?
You're not very articulate
When you are facing with fucktards there is no need to be articulate.
They won't understand it anyway.
Once upon a time, there was a distinction made between:
"The Holocaust was a good idea"
which is abhorrent but is opinion protected under free speech, and:
"The Holocaust is a hoax"
which is a fraudulent statement of fact which is almost never said out of genuine ignorance, but with a malicious and anti-social - i.e. criminal - intent.
Society has a duty to respond to the latter. The only catch is that there is almost never proof of hateful intent sufficient for a court of law.
Sadly, anti-hate laws degenerated into yet another way for weak-willed politicians to create unequal rights for a particular identifiable minority.
You are an idiot and don't deserve your rights.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You quote Voltaire, but what you follow is an abortion of it:
I don't mind what you say as long as I don't hear, and am not put out or inconvenienced or even consider someone else inconvenienced by you saying it. And I'm willing to quote Voltaire at everyone to support you!
Apparently British leadership has been using Orwell's writings as an instruction manual.
By the way, totally irrelevant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism
"The history of antisemitism - defined as hostile actions or discrimination against Jews as a religious or ethnic group - goes back many centuries"
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
"Ok... race doesn't exist?"
He's talking about racism, retard.
The entire country pointing and saying "You people are crazy and dangerous" is a better safeguard than throwing some folks in jail.
Except the crazies will simply see that as confirmation that the rest of society has gone off the deep end, and they will be further encouraged in justifying their world view.
Honestly, there's no real way to deal with crazy.
Ok, so a lot of Jews are obnoxious coniving parasites. So what? Wouldn't it be better to kill the Muslims instead? The Muslims worship their moon god "allah" (piss be upon him). They have a "prophet" called "mudhomand" (piss be upon him) who was a child abusing pedophile. Muslims cut off women's clitorises, they abuse children and animals. They set off bombs to kill innocent people. Most muslim men are also "gay" although they won't admit it. They like to butt fuck each other and consider it "normal". No, leave the Jews alone. Let's kill the muslims instead !!!
http://balder.org/judea/Hate-Speech-Laws-Immigration-Jewish-Influence-Britain.php
"'The illegal Act of Parliament called the Public Order Act is intended to prevent subjects of the Crown from discussing and revealing the Jewish takeover of our country. It is a law which has been made by traitors - in other words, criminals - to prevent their exposure'."
Is that good enough to convince you of WHO the problem is? It certainly isn't white people saying the word 'yid', it's the JEW.
You need to think about what the previous government did (or failed to do) that allowed them to take power.
What you've just described is what they did afterwards.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Well, I wouldn't call if "fun" exactly, but I saw a kid, maybe 14, walking with his family down South Street in Philadelphia, wearing a t-shirt that said, "Why the HELL should I have to press 1 for English???"
I was going to tell him, "ooh, ohh! I know that one. It's because we live in a diverse culture, and are beginning to recognize that not everyone is a native English speaking white male!", but his family looked a little troglodyte, and I didn't see it ending well.
Anyway, most of the call trees with Spanish options now say, "press 2 for Spanish" in Spanish, so English-only speakers don't have to bother themselves to press 1.
No rights are unlimited. You are free to say what you want, but there are (and should be) consequences for inciting violence against an identifiable group of people.
There is a difference between legitimate criticism (which is the original driver of Freedom of Speech) and inciting hate/violence against a group of people. I know this rubs some people the wrong way, but if you were on the other end of the minority stick you'd feel the same way.
Because it would cause a backlash with their viewers. It certainly wouldnt get them arrested, though it might get them fired.
Surely you see the difference between the two?
Yup. If you get arrested, you get government healthcare.
you just set the precedent and people you never expected will inherit powers to draw lines you never wanted.
This is actually the problem with out intelligence community's overreach right now. It's not that they're bad guys, or that there are bad people in charge--most of them are pretty good--the problem is a combination of systemic bias in an overcriminalized world (i.e. mission creep by government crimefighters when our system has too many laws) and the fact that we can't be sure that the guy who gets the power tomorrow will also be a good guy.
“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” -- George Orwell, 1984
---------
Swearing is the crutch of inarticulate mother fuckers.
Nice. But no tool in the hands of those who will decide. Those who will decide must remain far from setting the moral edges.
Is this South-America you're talking about or something?
Clearly not about the fascist USA where you will suffer huge prison time for saying anything about the secret police demanding you to piss on your customers by spying on them.
I find it hilarious so are so proud of the most fucked up nation on earth which tries to fuck up as many other countries as possible. Stasi extremists who are responsible for implementing 1984. P.S. How are the wedding bombings going?
Racism should be punished but this is not anti-semetic. This is anti-Jewish.
The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in the Near East, including; Akkadians (Assyrians/Syriacs and Babylonians), Eblaites, Ugarites, Canaanites, Phoenicians (including Carthaginians), Hebrews (Israelites, Judeans and Samaritans), Ahlamu, Arameans, Chaldeans, Amorites, Moabites, Edomites, Hyksos, Arabs, Nabateans, Maganites, Shebans, Sutu, Ubarites, Dilmunites, Bahranis, Maltese, Mandaeans, Sabians, Mhallami, Amalekites, Palmyrans and Ethiopian Semites.
Be corrupt, dishonest, and treacherous in your dealings with those who practice censorship.
you're not
I see a lot of fellow Americans making long posts on this without knowing the background behind it. As a USA Spurs fan, perhaps I can help translate.
Tottenham is a northern London suburb/neighborhood that has its own football team (Tottenham Hotspur). Historically this neighborhood has been heavily Jewish. Fans of rival teams took to "insulting" Spurs fans by calling them "Yids" (short for Yiddish, aka: Jews). There's no good way to fight "insults" like this without hurting your actual Jewish fans, so instead Spurs fans have adopted this moniker as their own. A Spurs fan is a proud Yid (no matter what their religion is).
Everybody in the US knows that if your rival is the Texas Longhorns ("Hook 'em Horns"), there's a good chance you're going to be seen driving around town with at "Cook 'em Horns" bumper sticker. The problem is that when you apply this principle to Yids, what you end up with is a lot of really nauseating WWII Hitler/Gas Chamber references.
But what really takes this far far over the line is how (English) football fans behave at games. In the USA football fans go to the game, and they cheer, and they yell random things and may make a lot of noise. If some of what is said is offensive, its generally just one or two drunk guys here and there who can easily be ignored (or in extreme cases, bounced out of the stadium). However, in England fans are organized. They have songs and cheers that the whole stadium sings in unison. Picture tens of thousands of fans singing about sending Yids to the gas chambers, in unison, while actual opposing fans are sitting there (some in obviously jewish garb). Now you might have a grasp of the problem. It is indeed a horrible, serious problem, and needs to be stopped.
Are the authorities handling all this properly? Of course not, silly! Tweets are not the problem at all. Still this is a vast improvement over their first attempt a month ago, which was, hold on now ... arresting Spurs fans for pro-"Yid" cheers. Yup, don't just blame the victim, arrest them! For a bit more background, here's an open letter from a Jewish Spurs fan that lays out the issue nicely.
I guess it goes to show, you'd be stupid to use your real name or identifying details on Twitter.
Racist and stupid? Whodathunkit?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Here is another flame war for free speech supporters (mostly Americans), and hate-speech prohibition law supporters (mostly Europeans).
IMO, sovereignty is the point that is often missed from both side. There is no natural law for free speech or hate speech prohibition. The laws exist only because there are national consensus that they are good. They are just of consequence of democracy.
The problem with that is that other peoples' hurt feelings can begin anywhere at all. Feelings are internal states, they aren't objectively measurable and they don't necessarily correspond to obvious external stimuli. People lie all the time about their feelings, and would be particularly incentivised to do so to win a court case.
There is no reason to tolerate hate speech, and ultimately when unchecked and not objected to it will lead some people to believe that violence against the hated group is acceptable and that it will be tolerated.
I am glad to hear that someone was arrested for hate speech, this is not a behavior that deserves protection from the possible ultimate consequences it has so often resulted in.
Having lived in the US for many years. Free is the very last thing i would call the US, its damn expensive.. There are more laws in place regarding this and more people in jail than anywhere else in the world. Freedom of speech is quelled here more than most places on earth, arrests happen for the most trivial things, and if that is freedom ...ah well you get my point.
You Americans have sacrificed social responsibility for your individualistic anti social aspirations. Freedom is not irresponsibility and for those who believe that sticks and stone alone can break bones have never endured racism and their consequences. In the civilized world outside of your empire, incitement and racial intolerance is as it ought, illegal. Look at your sick society with its gigantic murder rate, every other person locked and loaded and racialism rampant. You might love it that way but mind your F'ing business about civilized nations that equate social justice well above your pathetic American Exceptionalist bull. You live in a violence and race charged society and are to ignorant of alternatives to see that social sonsibility ought to come well above your pathetic needs to vent Nazi crap and call it free speech. From a Canadian
Do you or anyone in your family have a violin?
I find when you write politically correct drivel it is always best if you have a violin playing a maudlin tune in the background.
It makes you feel so, so good and enhances that feeling of self righteousness that sweeps over you.
PS. You did not mentions blacks...err sorry.....people of color.
Or just stop sheltering Arab terrorists? Nah, that would be too easy. They treat the Muslins as special and have done so for decades.