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UK Men Arrested For Anti-Semitic Tweets After Football Game
magic maverick writes "Reuters reports that three men were arrested for posting anti-Semitic comments on Twitter following the English Premier League match between Tottenham Hotspur and West Ham United in October, police said on Friday. 'Two men, aged 22 and 24, were arrested on Thursday in London and in Wiltshire, while a 48-year-old man was arrested at his home in Canning Town in London last week on suspicion of inciting racial hatred. The investigation following the match on October 6 was triggered by complaints about tweets that referred to Hitler and the gas chambers.'
I guess it goes to show, you'd be stupid to use your real name or identifying details on Twitter. Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof)."
Perhaps racist behaviour should be punished independent of any mindless "free speech" worship.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
I'm certain that these arrests won't have the desired effect, and I'd venture a bet that they'll foster feelings similar to those of the original tweets - a verbal Streisand effect. I'm confused what the police (and vicariously, those that push for harsh laws pertaining to what may be tweeted) are trying to accomplish here. This isn't good for anyone.
Wtf did they say exactly?
It appears Britain is trying to legislate a polite and sterile society rather than a free society. People need thicker skins, not laws to protect their feelings from being hurt.
Antisemitic behavior got you the death sentence in the Soviet Union. Watch your tongue, goy.
The remedy to unwanted speech is speech. And only speech. Any other efforts go towards some purpose other than remedying unwanted speech.
Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof)."
You could be arrested for the same activity in the US under the 18 USC 245 -- Federally protected activities, act. There is the first amendment, but there is some separation between constitutional theory, and law enforcement fact. You might or might not ultimately prevail incourt.
Easy. Just cultivate a group of people who are easily butthurt, or one that forms a 'survivor-guilt' bond over the 'plight' of another, demand criminal punishments for 'objectionable' behavior. This is the primary functional dynamic of left wing identity politics.
My racial hatred is confined to family gathering where I can blame it on my own blood and the alcohol provided.
Yes, if the government succeeds in saddling their indigenous population with sufficient disincentives to breed, work, and be prosperous..
"Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof)." -- While I am all in support of the right of free speech (excluding the "yelling fire in a crowded theater kind"), isn't it a bit pretentious for somebody not a citizen or residing within a given country to tell them they need to work at making their laws more like your own? If I'm not mistaken, in a strict legal sense, the USA is amongst the minority.
In the United States, Antisemitism overwhelmingly comes from the political left, both the Occupy Wall Street crowd and the victimhood identity politics left that regard Islamists and Palestinians as protected species.
There are also significant amounts of Antisemitism among liberal black politicians. Indeed, Jesse Jackson seems to have lost no political influence after calling new York City Hymietown.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Perhaps the British should also work on reforming their laws on free speech (or lack thereof).
The British (and the Europeans) have perfectly adequate laws against hate-speech, which is what these comments were likely caught by. Just because you don't know what those laws are, understand how or why they came about, or how their application works, doesn't mean they necessarily need to be reformed.
The great (silent) majority of Muslims who emigrates in the "west" flee the oppressive religious justice system. Sharia is NOT a threat in any way for you, me or any of our neighbours. Stop your ridiculous propaganda and start living with the sane people. If you cant, please check yourself in, cause you need it mate.
Tomorrow is another day...
Gotta feed the Queen...
Tomorrow is another day...
Because the "right" would have had absolutely no issues with the men for tweeting anti-"Arab" messages.
Those "raghead" jokes will always be popular, but woe betide the dumb bastard who ever criticizes Jews or Israel.
It's with enormous regret that I can say this as both a Jew and an Israeli.
Somewhere, sometime we lost whatever tolerance and sense of humor we may once have possessed.
(Yes, I know: Someone will instantly reply "In Auschwitz and Dachau." How astute of you.)
Your freedom stops, where someone else's nose begins.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Your freedom stops where other people's hurt feelings begin.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
Hate is the defamation of a group.
For example, I hate those who defame blacks by proclaiming blacks to have a higher crime rate than whites.
I hate those who defame Jews by proclaiming Jews to have disproportionate influence relative to their numbers.
I hate those who defame the poor by proclaiming the poor to have lesser capabilities than the rich.
I hate those who defame the rich by proclaiming the rich to have engaged in unfairly acquired their wealth.
I hate those who say that ugly people are ugly.
I hate those who say criminals are criminal.
Hate is Great!
Seastead this.
I find it remarkable that the world we live today, especially those in the West, people are trying to outdo each others in the "I am the best counter-racist there is" competition.
Who is *NOT* a racist ?
Who *DARE* to say that he or she is absolutely 100% free of racism ?
I am not here saying that racism is a good thing, but to point out that RACE is something that is deeply ingrained into what we are.
It's in our psyche, it's in the genes, man.
And regarding "Hate Speech" ... this bastard child of the Political Correct movement is DOING MORE HARM than good in the society.
What actually constitutes a "Hate Speech" ?
If you call a black a "nigger" is it a hate speech ?
Then what if a black person calls another black person a "nigger", is that a hate speech too ??
How about calling a Chinese a "chink", is that a hate speech ?
As a Chinese, (I can only speak for myself) I've met people who tend to describe me with many kinds of very very creative adjectives, and whenever that happen, you know what I do ?
I say "Thank you".
I thank them for letting me know how they feel about me.
It's better that I know how they feel about me up front, than to have someone who keep their grudges hidden and then backstab me at any given chance they get.
Furthermore, I respect their human rights - including their rights to say whatever they want, with their mouths.
Let me put it this way ...
I am born with a mouth, a mouth that is belonged to me. Ever since I was born, I have had the veto power over my own mouth, which includes each and every single words that I've spoken.
And as I do not wish to have other people having the veto power over my own mouth, I do not want to have the same veto power to control other people's mouths.
For me, this "Hate Speech" thing by itself is hateful.
It's a tool used by hateful people to limit other people's rights.
It's a tool to propagate hate, to make the society more hateful.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It is impossible to form an informed opinion without knowing what they actually said. The article does not elaborate, but it does give some general guidelines. Even as a Jewish Israeli, I have to admit those guidelines are worrying:
Supporters of the club often chant "Yid Army" and "Yiddo" at matches, using a term deemed offensive by some in the Jewish community, but fan groups say the term is used as a badge of honor rather than a derogatory remark.
However, the governing Football Association and police have warned that using the word "Yid" could lead to prosecution and a ban on attending matches.
Okay, so the "badge of honor" claim is bull. These are offensive. They are not (or, at least, should not), however, be criminal.
In my book, it is okay to ban fans who use those terms from attending plays (which is what "more speech" and social consequences is all about), but not, in itself, proper cause to open a criminal investigation.
Shachar
Silent majorities have the bad habit of remaining silent when the vocal minority does something. Things like Sharia are a threat for as long as majority remains silent.
This is a ToS violation, I've made it a habit not to cuss or flame on the written in stone Internet
(if/when my kids search me out) the point being glad I don't do the social networks; I do have a twitter account of many years
that I've never really used, but it's not my real name.
I have youtube and a Gmail account that have become joined at the hip, I log on as Trax and am always asked :}
if I'd rather use my real name Penny Wise
And yet, a majority vote.
Tomorrow is another day...
Amazing how people frequently bash Muslims, Asians, and Arabs in the UK and nothing happens (even full EDL and BNP rallies in the street), yet an anti-Semitic tweet is cause for arrest. Both are disgusting, but either legalize or ban both.
Nothing comvinces the haters they're right than being free to say AND DEFENDED TO SAY IT by others.
I think that if you're into football so much that it causes emotional happiness/rage, then that's a prison enough. Other people that are not so affected should pitty these people, as they have nothing else.
Using their same logic (and I'm assuming that they are trying to stop people from saying mean things, and it escalating into some physical rage), they should ban football, because of the rage that it causes every game. There's always a winner and there's always a loser. The only thing that allows for these games to be played is that there is (supposed to be) freedom of speech.
Although, honestly, I feel that since there is such emotional value that comes along with sports, there should be some level of responsibility from those that ref the game. If the "sports heroes" are doing things that will spark rage in the crowd (ridiculous penalties, fighting, whatever), then the refs should just stop the game, or the "sports heroes" should be arrested.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
[Decadent, Gay, Romany, Mentally and physically handicapped, and Jewish]
Just to remind you that many of them were Socialists, Communists, Jehovah's Witnesses or common criminals. It's strange to see an enumeration that leaves them out.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Once upon a time, there was a distinction made between:
"The Holocaust was a good idea"
which is abhorrent but is opinion protected under free speech, and:
"The Holocaust is a hoax"
which is a fraudulent statement of fact which is almost never said out of genuine ignorance, but with a malicious and anti-social - i.e. criminal - intent.
Society has a duty to respond to the latter. The only catch is that there is almost never proof of hateful intent sufficient for a court of law.
Sadly, anti-hate laws degenerated into yet another way for weak-willed politicians to create unequal rights for a particular identifiable minority.
You are an idiot and don't deserve your rights.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"The right to offend is more important than the right to not be offended".
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
By the way, totally irrelevant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism
"The history of antisemitism - defined as hostile actions or discrimination against Jews as a religious or ethnic group - goes back many centuries"
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
That RT article is bogus. This shows that Islam rose 2% from 3% to 5% - in the same period, "no religion" rose 10% from 15% to 25%. Islam is still a tiny religion in the UK. The increase in non-UK born Christians was larger than the _total_ increase of Muslims. The decrease in UK born Christians is almost entirely because of the rise in "no religion".
Erm... did you not read the quoted text?
You need to think about what the previous government did (or failed to do) that allowed them to take power.
What you've just described is what they did afterwards.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Well, I wouldn't call if "fun" exactly, but I saw a kid, maybe 14, walking with his family down South Street in Philadelphia, wearing a t-shirt that said, "Why the HELL should I have to press 1 for English???"
I was going to tell him, "ooh, ohh! I know that one. It's because we live in a diverse culture, and are beginning to recognize that not everyone is a native English speaking white male!", but his family looked a little troglodyte, and I didn't see it ending well.
Anyway, most of the call trees with Spanish options now say, "press 2 for Spanish" in Spanish, so English-only speakers don't have to bother themselves to press 1.
No rights are unlimited. You are free to say what you want, but there are (and should be) consequences for inciting violence against an identifiable group of people.
There is a difference between legitimate criticism (which is the original driver of Freedom of Speech) and inciting hate/violence against a group of people. I know this rubs some people the wrong way, but if you were on the other end of the minority stick you'd feel the same way.
Because it would cause a backlash with their viewers. It certainly wouldnt get them arrested, though it might get them fired.
Surely you see the difference between the two?
Yup. If you get arrested, you get government healthcare.
you just set the precedent and people you never expected will inherit powers to draw lines you never wanted.
This is actually the problem with out intelligence community's overreach right now. It's not that they're bad guys, or that there are bad people in charge--most of them are pretty good--the problem is a combination of systemic bias in an overcriminalized world (i.e. mission creep by government crimefighters when our system has too many laws) and the fact that we can't be sure that the guy who gets the power tomorrow will also be a good guy.
“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.” -- George Orwell, 1984
---------
Swearing is the crutch of inarticulate mother fuckers.
It might be if you're American. The rest of the world don't hold to your extremist views on this.
He might be a war monger, but least he's not an illiterate.
Be corrupt, dishonest, and treacherous in your dealings with those who practice censorship.
No, actually it does not. Biological sex and ancestry are objective, biological constructs. Gender and race are both social constructs, created for political and social purposes.
I can easily agree with 'race' here and probably replace it with 'genetic descent', but gender!? Physical difference in gender do make a difference. The male of the species are not capable of giving birth and the female of the species is not capable of producing a child without the male of the species providing semen (there may be exceptions, but I am having difficulty finding any evidence of the 0.0001%). How we handle the differences in appearance and gender is one thing, but there are still biological factors at play.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I see a lot of fellow Americans making long posts on this without knowing the background behind it. As a USA Spurs fan, perhaps I can help translate.
Tottenham is a northern London suburb/neighborhood that has its own football team (Tottenham Hotspur). Historically this neighborhood has been heavily Jewish. Fans of rival teams took to "insulting" Spurs fans by calling them "Yids" (short for Yiddish, aka: Jews). There's no good way to fight "insults" like this without hurting your actual Jewish fans, so instead Spurs fans have adopted this moniker as their own. A Spurs fan is a proud Yid (no matter what their religion is).
Everybody in the US knows that if your rival is the Texas Longhorns ("Hook 'em Horns"), there's a good chance you're going to be seen driving around town with at "Cook 'em Horns" bumper sticker. The problem is that when you apply this principle to Yids, what you end up with is a lot of really nauseating WWII Hitler/Gas Chamber references.
But what really takes this far far over the line is how (English) football fans behave at games. In the USA football fans go to the game, and they cheer, and they yell random things and may make a lot of noise. If some of what is said is offensive, its generally just one or two drunk guys here and there who can easily be ignored (or in extreme cases, bounced out of the stadium). However, in England fans are organized. They have songs and cheers that the whole stadium sings in unison. Picture tens of thousands of fans singing about sending Yids to the gas chambers, in unison, while actual opposing fans are sitting there (some in obviously jewish garb). Now you might have a grasp of the problem. It is indeed a horrible, serious problem, and needs to be stopped.
Are the authorities handling all this properly? Of course not, silly! Tweets are not the problem at all. Still this is a vast improvement over their first attempt a month ago, which was, hold on now ... arresting Spurs fans for pro-"Yid" cheers. Yup, don't just blame the victim, arrest them! For a bit more background, here's an open letter from a Jewish Spurs fan that lays out the issue nicely.
If Keegstra pulled that stunt in the US ...
..he'd get bounced out of that school by the local school-board so fast, he wouldn't have time to get the "ler" in "Hitler" out of his lips. No parent wants their kid taught by a dangerous nut, no matter what a contract or a Union may say on the matter. We actually used to have deniers pop up in schools in the USA every now and then in the 70's and early 80's, but nobody who tries that crap today lasts long enough to make it to the news.
You may find our bottom-up method of social ostracization a bit messy, but in this case it at east it works really well.
I guess it goes to show, you'd be stupid to use your real name or identifying details on Twitter.
Racist and stupid? Whodathunkit?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Damn right! We declared our Independence because of that.
AC is saying that "gender" is a social construct, and different than biological sex, which is objective.
But I'd like to point out that on almost all specific traits, including ones like height and weight, the average difference between individuals is greater than the average difference between any categories. That's true both for real categories like sex, and for social categories like "race" or caste.
An example using a trait with a clear average difference between males and females, weight: If you're designing a women's restroom, you can use the average weight of local women to determine how strong the floor needs to be. But knowing that an individual person is female doesn't help predict their weight at all, because the overall average difference in weight between individuals is much higher than the difference between sexes.
In some cases traits line up to predict other traits, but none of those distributions match the supposed distributions of races. Skin tones have the full range from very pale to very dark with no groupings. But if you know somebody's height and wrist width, you might be able to predict their weight. Maybe sex + another trait you could start making predictions. But the traits aren't distributed such that a combination of traits will be associated with a group; even if the group has a higher average likelihood of both traits, since the average difference between individuals will still be greater, few people will have both associated traits; the traits will not be predictive other than in aggregate. How can a grouping be real if none of the members are individually members? It becomes an artificial abstract only useful for constructing shopping malls and sports stadiums.
Here is another flame war for free speech supporters (mostly Americans), and hate-speech prohibition law supporters (mostly Europeans).
IMO, sovereignty is the point that is often missed from both side. There is no natural law for free speech or hate speech prohibition. The laws exist only because there are national consensus that they are good. They are just of consequence of democracy.
I don't know what definition of race you're using, but it's mostly a matter of ethnicity. The genes are just the visible parts, and they're used to infer the rest, what really define them is their culture, their education, etc.
For example, Spanish people are noisy. You may choose to dislike them because of that. However, in our society, it is not politically correct to communicate similar feelings to other sensitive ethnicities, in particular jews, blacks and arabs.
I'm not American. I live in a truly free country.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
'Gender' and 'sex' are considered different things these days, yeah, so someone can be 'biologically male' but 'cognitively female' (or whatever the terminology is they use for the latter). And, as some love to point out, a wide range in between.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Not to mince words. Ok, maybe I'm mincing.
But an increase from 3% to 5% is a 66% increase. Not a 2% increase.