Slashdot Mirror
TSA: Confiscating Aluminum Foil and Watching Out For Solar Powered Bombs
schwit1 writes "If you think confiscating aluminum foil to prevent a solar powered bomb attack on a plane is a waste of time, don't blame the TSA agent. According to a former employee most of the security people agree with you. Instead, we need to hold accountable the people sending down such ridiculous orders. From the article: 'Ridiculous restrictions and the TSA have become nearly synonymous in the post-9/11 airport, and as new, improbable terrorist plots come to light, we will likely continue to be burdened with new, absurd rules. But our best bet is to take the frustration toward the TSA agent confiscating our over-sized liquids, and re-direct it to the people at TSA headquarters who are being paid the big bucks to make the rules — the ones who make the call as to whether our toothpaste is verboten and whether our shoes will need extra screening.'"
Oh wait....
(Cue tinfoil vs aluminum foil pedants)
The TSA already has half the world paranoid as to their intentions, and now they've taken away people's ability to put on a trusty tinfoil hat? This is the step too far.
The TSA still has not caught a single terrorist trying to get on a plane.
It's all security theatre.
http://youtu.be/luNfghUnvFg
Personally, I think any TSA employee in charge of TSA procedures needs to go through said procedure/screening every day before work.
Actually, they need to be fired and replaced by people with proper risk management training, as opposed to risk avoidance.
Risk Avoidance: Do everything in your power to prevent some risk, no matter the cost
Risk Management: Assess the risk, consider the liklihood of the risk, the damage it will cost if it happens, then look at mitigations, how likely they are to work, how much they'll cost, etc... And make the cheapest decision. IE if on average the mitigation will prevent more loss than it costs, you impliment it. Otherwise you just accept the risk.
I don't read AC A human right
Story: I walked into the Detroit airport a couple years ago while wearing the Video Coat. The nice TSA people marked my entire family's boarding passes SSSS. They inspected us thoroughly, including the eight 5 AH Chinese LiPo battery packs used to power the coat. These are the no-protection-board version with the factory connectors that let you plug two batteries together like BIG 9V batteries. They will happily put out 100 amps.
Had we been 'the type', we could have started four fires in the cabin that day.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
Within the US you can take Amtrak. (No "c" in "Amtrak".)
Don't believe the prices on the Amtrak website. It's a rather lo-budge operation, so they don't have advance purchase pricing available from the site. The site does work correctly for determining where and when you can go, but then go down to the station for your ticket purchase. If you purchase so much as one day in advance, quite likely you can get a discount.
For example, last I checked, to fly one-way between San Jose, California and Portland, Oregon is about $250. Last Summer I took the Coast Starlight from Diridon Station in San Jose to Union Station in Portland, one day advance purchase for about $80.00.
My Aunt just recently paid about $250.00 for a round-trip from Spokane, Washington to Portland. With two-week advance purchase, that's $86.00 on Amtrack.
The trains don't go everywhere they really need to, so there is some chance you'll make part of your trip on an Amtrak bus. That was the case when I travelled from LA to San Jose. Rather oddly, I took a bus from the HUGE train station in downtown LA to Bakersfield, then the train from there to San Jose. However the busses are quite nice.
Their only "security" is that they want to see your ID when you purchase a ticket. You don't need to show ID when you board the train. There is no X-Ray, no metal detector.
The seats are spacious, there are lots of 110 VAC power sockets. Most but not all trains have WiFi, however the train itself gets onine via a 3G connection that's shared by the whole train, so they limit downloads to 10 MB and do not permit streaming video at all.
Because 3G is a cell phone protocol, you can only get online when the train is within range of a cell tower. Sometimes the trains are way out in the sticks so you cannot get online.
My only gripe is that the food is scanty and very expensive, although it is quite tasty. Pack some sandwiches.
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
That's like saying beta was nearly unpopular.
It's positively Soviet. And since the stuff you can still buy after the security checkpoint...
we became scared of aluminum foil, exploding shoes, flaming underwear, nail clippers, shampoo, cryptography and untapped phone systems. Really, can we claim they didn't win?
To uphold our anti-terrorist ideals, we ran a "shock and awe" bombing campaign to bring fear to a country full of people (who until then had been pretty good at keeping al qaeda out).
Seriously, even if something like 9/11 happened every year, it wouldn't put that big of dent in our country: Thats 2,977 deaths added to the normal yearly 2,468,435, or 0.12% more deaths. Thats only 7.7% the amount of suicides we have a year. Even the low estimates for flu deaths are are more! We can stand up for our ideals and take a bit of risk. We arn't suppose to be fear controlled cowards. We are a big strong country, what the hell are we so scared of? I don't get it.
Do we really need to spy on everyone all the time? Even the horrible outcome the NSA likes to threaten could (but likely wouldn't) happen (that they wouldn't prevent anyway) isn't really that bad. This shit needs to end. Secret courts, secret domestic spying programs, and a president with a Nobel prize for closing our indefinite holding torture base thats still open, and now irrational fear of shiny things blowing up in the sun. This is enough. Give us back our liberty please; I think we've loaned it out long enough. Don't make us foreclose on the government to get it back....
Seriously; when the paranoia/control over the population is so strong that aluminium foil is confiscated so that the jagged cardboard can't be used in a terrorist act - and when your people roll over and take this reaming - the terrorists won.
As a suggestion, maybe instead of being the arseholes of the planet if you just stayed in your own borders and looked after your own?
All I have to say (for now at least) is that these fuckers have earned the Epic Facepalm.
This space unintentionally left blank.
Oh wait, it's another 10 days.
More proof that the government is secretly controlled by the Aluminati.
I'll blame and be pissed off at both of them thanks. They're the morons that are unquestionably obeying stupid orders, and they're the morons who are responsible for their career path and I refuse to let them get off of the hook because they're just "following orders". Have we not yet learned that is among the most invalid excuses? Have we not yet repeated the old quote about those that do not learn from history? Apparently not.
That makes me wonder why I would ever want to visit the USA. I'm sure there are lots of beautiful places to go to and enjoy, but why would I want a semi-educated thug feeling me up and confiscating shit because I might be a bomber. Come to think of it I'm probably on the "fuck this guy over" list because of this and similar comments on other forums. Fuck you NSA, you've cost your country a potential tourist spending several thousand dollars travelling, eating, drinking, visiting places .........
Whether you agree or disagree with the need for the TSA, the above is a lousy childish argument.
The spinkler system at my office has not put out a single fire. My smoke detector has not once detected smoke. My life insurance has not once payed out. The airbag in your car has not once inflated and safed your life. My helmet has not once protected my head from a crash.
The TSA could counter khasim logic very simply: Since the TSA has been in existence no terrorist action on US targets has been succesful.
Both statements are true. And totally irrelevant.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I think the whole plane should be confiscated-
The thing is made from a aluminium/magnesium alloy! Very dangerous if ignited!
Huge containers of Jet A1- way past the 100ml limit- embedded right in the wings!!!
The cabin is filled with a pressurised gaseous oxidiser- up to 21% PURE oxygen!!!
The "solar powered bomb" thing is just misdirection and a reason to confiscate aluminium foil. What they don't want to do is explicitly state how you can use aluminium foil as a component in an explosive device because it might give some of the terrorists an idea they wouldn't have had on their own.
The people who profit from making all these inane rules are ultimately the manufacturers of the screening equipment, the people training security staff, et cetera. In other words, the military-industrial-security complex. It is with them (and the politicians who sell us out to them) that we must start redressing our grievances. We must also stop sensationalising every one-in-a-million occurrence (terrorism, being struck twice by lightning) and start mitigating the effects of problems that will likely impact us all (e.g., climate change).
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Everyone knows solar powered bombs are green and good for the environment.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
We need better screening to stop drugs making it through to TSA management.
Last month I flew from Bangkok to Hong Kong. The security people stole my fingernail scizzors. I am still looking for a replacement. They also took a bottle of Vasaline Lotion purchased in 7/11. Warnings talk about "less than 100 ml" and "more than 100 ml" but nobody knows what happens if the bottle is exactly 100 ml.
I give up - no more flying. There is an overland route from Bangkok through Laos and China to Hong Kong. Actually there is an overland route from Bangkok to damned near anywhere in the world.
Security people are bred for facist chromosomes.
Can someone just fly a bomb into every TSA HQ and end this idiocy already?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Part of the problem is the higher-ups are terrified of something happening on their watch so they keep handing down increasingly silly and draconian measures, just so if something *does* happen they can say that they tried their best and look at all the measures they put in? If the 'terrorists' got past all that there wasn't more they could realistically do right?
Compare this to if a sane person was in charge and wasn't doing all this stuff - If an incident happened, all you lot would be baying for their blood: Why wasn't security tightened? Think of the poor children! Sack him! Imprisonment! Execution!
In fact, isn't this what happened? And now when those security restrictions are in place, everyone is complaining?
This is one of the biggest problems with our relationship with our higher ups.
As soon as a good one makes a mistake, they get thrown off a cliff and a total noob will take their place until they make a mistake.
By mistake, I mean something the wolves can jump on them for, no matter how minor.
Tighten restrictions on freedom? That's fine. Cut benefits to save money even tho' it'll ruin some peoples lives? That's fine. Waste shitloads of our money? As long as it has lots of hoops and paperwork, that's fine too.
Give people a bit more freedom and make their lives easier, only for one of those people to abuse it and cause an incident? Off with his head!
There is just no incentive to the people in charge to let up; It's all ass covering. They are as scared of the wolves as we are of them.
Tinfoil hats? Within two years no one is allowed to wear or carry anything anymore when flying.
You get a laxative 3 hours before take-off (you might have swallowd a bomb you know) and can only board when naked. The only hand luggage allowed are inmaginative handluggage.
Its for your own safety so SHUT UP and do as you are told! Obey the TSA!
Saying these measures are over the top makes you a suspect!
This is an obvious and easy way to beat airport security, is not and can not be realistically checked for, and has been used in at least one instance in Saudi Arabia by a suicide bomber. (And frequently used by drug couriers).
A motivated individual of either sex can hide >1kg of high explosive in this way
Makes the TSA entirely irrelevant.
TSA needs the aluminum for their own tinfoil hats. Either that or their reselling it. Around here it's the copper their after.
Onda Technology Institute
I do wonder if they are taking the threat of homeopathic bombs seriously.
I mean once they have a tiny bit of explosive there is practically no limit to how much they could dilute it on the plane!
shit has already been snuck in with a bird of paradise left over wrap up and the stupid tsa guy let it through as is.
Nothing the TSA does has anything to do with security.
We know that, the story was old years ago. The real question I don't see asked often enough and answered even less is: What does it have to do with? Why do they do this bullshit, and why does it get more transparent? Why have we reached the part where even regular people begin to understand the TSA is full of it?
Is it just stupidity? Really? While you shouldn't always look for malice, there's also a point where stupidity ceases to be the most likely explanation.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
While I agree that the real villans of the piece are the people making these rules, the TSA agents are far from blameless. They're not forced to work those jobs (and no, I'd lose my unemployment benefit if I refused this work is not an argument). I hope the general public continue to give these people a really hard time.
Would you work as a TSA agent? If you lacked skills sufficient to be employed productively and could only make a reasonable living by accepting tax-payer money to harass people at airports then you likely would, but you'd deserve every bit of hatred society bore you.
The simple fact that a discussion like this comes up proves that the terrorists have already won, big time. The hundreds of billions of dollars that the world spends on "preventing" terrorist attacks is much more than the terrorists could have hoped for. They damage the economy, not by destroying buildings or killing people, but by making us spend an obscene amount of money in useless "anti-terrorist" measures.
We should stop all this. We should just hop on a plane and fly. Fuck the terrorists.
no, I don't have a sig
If you managed to get the rest of the bomb through security and were just in need of some foil, just buy a toblerone after going through security.
What would the conspiracy theorists interpret it when they start confiscating tin foil?
"If you think confiscating aluminum foil to prevent a solar powered bomb attack
I think the important news here is that terrorists are also concerned about the environment and are switching to green energy sources.
Since according to Monty Python, someone might attack you with a banana.
So I'm not sure what the fuck you're talking about.
Why? Because I now know my neighborhood is completely terrorist free since everyone around here uses their foil for meth.
To ever-so-slightly reduce exposure of their camera sensors to Fantastic Four-creating cosmic rays.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Let me make a quick edit here...
"...and as new, improbable terrorist plots come to light, we will likely continue to be burdened with new, absurd rules."
...and as new, improbable terrorist plots come to light, they won't be on airlines...
Unless you have a disconnected, completely stupid terrorist, they will not use the same mechanism after it has been substantially controlled. They'll just move on to the next thing.
"re-direct it to the people at TSA headquarters" HAHAHAHAHA Like you have any say in the matter.
And how exactly should we "re-direct" our frustration to the "people at TSA headquarters who are being paid the big bucks to make the rules"? Should we all go down there and invite them to lunch? The TSA agents ARE the face of the TSA. They are the only part of the TSA agency that most people will ever come into contact with. If the TSA agents don't like being the face of an organization with absurd rules, then they should ALL quit. Maybe that would cause some kind of change to those absurd rules.
What else would you expect from the TSA? Their #1 job is to justify their existence and the only way they can is by finding more "restricted items". When passengers start complying with the current set of rules, the amount of restricted items goes down. To counter this downward trend, it is TSA HQ's job to issue more directives that are designed to increase the number of confiscations and therefore increase the justification for the TSA.
Who else would keep these "dangerous" items off the plane?
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Seriously, the train takes FOREVER in the mid-atlantic/northeast corridor. In fact, it takes longer to take the train than it does to drive. And it costs the same as gas if you're going solo, much more if you have 2 or more people travelling together.
Ex: fly to NY, INCLUDING arriving 1.5h before departure to allow for parking/TSA/etc. takes about 3.5 hrs from my town in S/W Virginia to NYC (6 if you have a connecting flight). The drive is 7 hours. The "direct" train is just shy of 9 hours if I count parking and arriving just 20 minutes before departure. And it's 30 miles closer to NYC than the airport. WTF? And the cheapest ticket, when they're available, is $65. Now, that's pretty good considering it would cost me $50 in gas. Definitely worth the $15 extra, probably worth the $80 for two of us. Except that there are exactly 2 trains that run on a typical day and only one on the weekend. You get there when you get there, which usually means at least one extra day of travel and one extra night in a hotel.
It has it's place, but with freight having first priority on US rails, I don't ever expect the train to become a preferred mode of transportation.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The TSA already has half the world paranoid as to their intentions, and now they've taken away people's ability to put on a trusty tinfoil hat? This is the step too far.
Don't worry, they'll just give you more on the plane anyway. Last time I flew the meal was served covered with foil and I got a soda in an aluminum can.
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
It's not just the TSA management though - It's also the people.
...so if you want non-stupid policies we the people have to loudly applaud when their are tiny steps in that direction, not flee in panic.
A year or so ago, TSA management announced that some sharps would be allowed back on planes. Makes sense - With post 9/11 policies in place it's not like you're going to take down a plane with a pen knife. The outcry from the flying public, flight attendants & the media forced the TSA to back pedal back to banning them.
Mercury salts might be a little bit hard to get onto a plane as well.
Yes most people hate their jobs. The difference is, most people's jobs actually have some kind of point other than providing something for politicians to cover their asses with. Most people's jobs are not, 100% counterproductive.
Sorry, but I have no sympathy. You sign up to be part of the CYA jobs program, you get what you signed up for. You are the one who decides other people's travel plans and good day are worth less to you than your paycheck. You are the one who decides these stupid abusive orders are ok to follow.
The front line TSA agent bears 100% responsibility for his own actions, increasing the number of people involved should not decrease liability, it should compound it. Responsibility is not an either or. Its not either the front line is responsible or the higher ups are, they are ALL fully responsible for their own actions and for the actions they ask others to do.
Guilt is not some pie that gets sliced up and passed around. Each individual gets their own full one.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
If your job is stupid, then YOU need to tell your boss.
We already are. And we're hassling you because it's so stupid. The next step in the chain is for you to hassle your boss.
I've yet to hear, say, the TSA go on strike over the ridiculous things they are being asked to do, and getting complaints from the public over.
You can't just say "We think it's stupid too, but we haven't told anyone." It's up to you to feedback to the appropriate management what a huge waste of time this is, and how much negative feeling it's generating.
"Sorry, mate, not my fault, just doing my job"... the phrase that will end the world.
It was the deadly serrated blade on the box that had them panicked.
At least use plausible conversions 0.002 MPG is pretty bad.
I have very little concern about an on-board bomb.
I'm more concerned that someone one the ground with a martyr complex will figure out how to shoot a plane or helicopter out of the sky then do it.
Looks like a real threat to me.
If I have to deal with Mindless idiocy, I always calmly inform the mindless idiot that their job is mindless and idiotic and that they deserve no respect from me or anyone who is not also a mindless idiot. Fuck them, and fuck their job. Idiots.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
It is the end result of all this foolishness, isn't it? Get over it. Take you clothes off, and get on the plane.
Al Qaeda could destroy the traveling experience Americana simply by constantly brain storming new plots and discussing them in the open internet. The US authorities then do the job for them. Brainstorming gets a new, more evil meaning. *evil laugh*
That must have been done on behalf of the ant lobby. Aluminum foil and magnifying glasses.
Have gnu, will travel.
One can always find routes that are [cheaper/more expensive] than the alternative. Proves nothing either way.
In the end, though, you are right. Train travel sucks a lot in the US. While some people see this as a reason to get rid of it all together, I prefer to see it as a reason to improve it. Planes (and cars) use fossil fuels, of which there is a finite supply. While we can argue the exact date the last barrel of oil will be sucked out of the ground, it's plain to see it will happen eventually. And a long time before that, prices for oil will be sky-high, precluding its use as a fuel.
Alternate energy, such as solar, wind, and nuclear provides some hope. But these produce Electricity. Until a cheap, reliable 'super-capacitor' is invented, we cannot use electricity to power planes and long-distance cars. But we can power trains with electricity.
USing existing Rights-of-way, it would be possible to build a few high-speed, coast-to-coast routes. One along the northern border, one along the botton of the USA. One up/down each coast. It would be expensive, yes- hundreds of billions of dollars. But, to put that in perspective, that's about what we spend on the military in the Middle East each month.
Oh whatever, it's worth it. I'll gladly give up my aluminum foil in exchange for continued gropings by minimum wage employees.
Flying is in many ways one of the most surreal parts of my life. My tax dollars go towards paying this poor son of a bitch to feel me up for no good reason. I used to feel bad, but eventually that gave way to feeling dazed instead. I mean, I've become somewhat accustomed to being in this strange position where I can demand that a total stranger feels me up. How demeaning that must be! Even a greeter at Walmart retains more dignity than that.
Oftentimes, they ask why I'm opting out. My response is invariably "because I can", but I'm thinking about switching that up to either "because I like the feeling of superiority that comes with forcing strangers to do demeaning things" or "think of it as a jobs program for you guys". Maybe if we make their lives miserable enough, they'll finally quit and go work somewhere respectable like White Castle.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
It takes 9 hours to go from Omaha to Miami on Amtrack , and you can get a one way ticket for $275.
Yes, you can opt for the 23 train that takes two partial days (not three full days - although there might be a possible package for that too), and yes you can buy a cabin ticket for almost $1100.
http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/...
No it's not faster to drive, and I've driven such distances. Cheaper? Perhaps. If you have more than one person, definitely. Again, I've done this, I prefer to drive, and often get a rental with full coverage, in case I decide to pull any Jackass stunts ( with full coverage, I can take the car to a demolition derby before returning and not have any worries). It's definitely not more relaxing, especially if you're trying to beat a train going 90.
Note: if going from Omaha to Miami you'll probably go first to Chicago, and may get put on the City Of New Orleans (made famous by the song), and go to , you guessed, it New Orleans, then to Jacksonville, and then to Orlando, and then to Miami, there might be 3 to 5 train changes there. Then there are other, slower routes, with more changes.
It may be more rewarding to drive.
Also, it should be noted that some train stations have TSA agents and you'll still have to deal twith them sometimes by train. If you go that route. Trains can be fun though, no need to turn off your electronics, and you'll likely have excellent signal strengths wherever possible, plus a lot more room to get up and walk around and socialize.
I recently took a flight from coast to coast and had a few "restricted" items I was taking with me.
When I left I checked my bag so I wouldn't have to worry about the TSA nonsense, and had no issues. On the way back, I didn't want to waste time waiting on baggage claim so I took my luggage as carry-on, completely forgetting what I had taken with me.
Going through TSA security, my bag was taking some time going through the XRay machine, and I was standing around with my socks before they pulled me out of line to go through my bag. I realized that I was bringing things through and was in a minor panic about it.
The TSA asked if I knew why I was pulled over and bag inspected, and I started saying, "Well...it probably is..." and he interrupted me with "It's the bottle of water isn't it."
I had totally forgotten that I had put it in there from buying it earlier while changing gates. He asked if I wanted to drink or throw it, I shrugged and he threw it.
The reason I was in a panic earlier? I had drugs and a knife in the bag. TSA detected and removed the water, and apparently didn't care about the 5" knife.
... decision-makers had an IQ that was right around room temperature.
As it turns out I wasn't specific enough. I meant Celsius and not Fahrenheit.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Pretty pathetic.
I can honestly say that 99.9 percent of what the TSA is doing is a complete and utter waste of time and would not stop a trained terrorist with any experience.
But it sure burns up lots of money that gets certain firms lots of money.
Just get real and realize the problem is Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, and to a lesser extent Afghanistan and stop buying oil from there or trading with them.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
as I type this the butts of my hands are resting on a nice chunk of aluminum I regular take on planes...
FTA:
My six years at the TSA played out like a circus of absurd security regulations, presided over by a coterie of managers who, for the most part, made the Keystone Cops look competent.
Oh man that's just cold Harrington. Such an insult to the Keystone Cops.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Why couldn't they have tried to smuggle a bomb in a crying baby?
The trouble is that with the methods en vogue among this young generation of terrorists (blowing themselves up), they can hardly accumulatae any experience. That is, if they survived training...
It takes 9 hours to go from Omaha to Miami on Amtrack , and you can get a one way ticket for $275.
No, no it doesn't. You are just counting the first leg of the trip: Omaha to Chicago. *That* takes 9+ hours. It takes literally days worth of ass in the train seat to get to Miami from Omaha, because they shunt you from Omaha to Chicago to DC and then down to Miami. Don't neglect the major stopovers you can get hit with when transferring trains.
If you don't believe me, as yourself how an Amtrak train can travel the 1,400 mile Great Circle distance between those two cities in 9 hours. That would be equivalent to a magical Amtrak travelling between the cities, as the crow flies, at ~150 mph.
Dude: it takes *days* to take the train on that Amtrak route. You can leave Omaha tomorrow, at 5 AM, and arrive in Miami 2.5 days later... at 6 PM on 24 February. It's not going to get much better than that.
But hey, if you have a line on Great Circle bullet train routes in the US, by all means let me know. Would save me time over driving.
From TFA:
âoeWhat the hell are these idiots up in D.C. talking about?â he asked. âoeWhy would anyone need a solar powered bomb indoors, on a plane?â
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The real reason the TSA doesn't want you to carry tinfoil has nothing to do with solar powered bombs. They don't want you to block out their mind control rays... /end black humour mode