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TSA: Confiscating Aluminum Foil and Watching Out For Solar Powered Bombs
schwit1 writes "If you think confiscating aluminum foil to prevent a solar powered bomb attack on a plane is a waste of time, don't blame the TSA agent. According to a former employee most of the security people agree with you. Instead, we need to hold accountable the people sending down such ridiculous orders. From the article: 'Ridiculous restrictions and the TSA have become nearly synonymous in the post-9/11 airport, and as new, improbable terrorist plots come to light, we will likely continue to be burdened with new, absurd rules. But our best bet is to take the frustration toward the TSA agent confiscating our over-sized liquids, and re-direct it to the people at TSA headquarters who are being paid the big bucks to make the rules — the ones who make the call as to whether our toothpaste is verboten and whether our shoes will need extra screening.'"
Oh wait....
(Cue tinfoil vs aluminum foil pedants)
The TSA already has half the world paranoid as to their intentions, and now they've taken away people's ability to put on a trusty tinfoil hat? This is the step too far.
The TSA still has not caught a single terrorist trying to get on a plane.
It's all security theatre.
Personally, I think any TSA employee in charge of TSA procedures needs to go through said procedure/screening every day before work.
Actually, they need to be fired and replaced by people with proper risk management training, as opposed to risk avoidance.
Risk Avoidance: Do everything in your power to prevent some risk, no matter the cost
Risk Management: Assess the risk, consider the liklihood of the risk, the damage it will cost if it happens, then look at mitigations, how likely they are to work, how much they'll cost, etc... And make the cheapest decision. IE if on average the mitigation will prevent more loss than it costs, you impliment it. Otherwise you just accept the risk.
I don't read AC A human right
Story: I walked into the Detroit airport a couple years ago while wearing the Video Coat. The nice TSA people marked my entire family's boarding passes SSSS. They inspected us thoroughly, including the eight 5 AH Chinese LiPo battery packs used to power the coat. These are the no-protection-board version with the factory connectors that let you plug two batteries together like BIG 9V batteries. They will happily put out 100 amps.
Had we been 'the type', we could have started four fires in the cabin that day.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
Within the US you can take Amtrak. (No "c" in "Amtrak".)
Don't believe the prices on the Amtrak website. It's a rather lo-budge operation, so they don't have advance purchase pricing available from the site. The site does work correctly for determining where and when you can go, but then go down to the station for your ticket purchase. If you purchase so much as one day in advance, quite likely you can get a discount.
For example, last I checked, to fly one-way between San Jose, California and Portland, Oregon is about $250. Last Summer I took the Coast Starlight from Diridon Station in San Jose to Union Station in Portland, one day advance purchase for about $80.00.
My Aunt just recently paid about $250.00 for a round-trip from Spokane, Washington to Portland. With two-week advance purchase, that's $86.00 on Amtrack.
The trains don't go everywhere they really need to, so there is some chance you'll make part of your trip on an Amtrak bus. That was the case when I travelled from LA to San Jose. Rather oddly, I took a bus from the HUGE train station in downtown LA to Bakersfield, then the train from there to San Jose. However the busses are quite nice.
Their only "security" is that they want to see your ID when you purchase a ticket. You don't need to show ID when you board the train. There is no X-Ray, no metal detector.
The seats are spacious, there are lots of 110 VAC power sockets. Most but not all trains have WiFi, however the train itself gets onine via a 3G connection that's shared by the whole train, so they limit downloads to 10 MB and do not permit streaming video at all.
Because 3G is a cell phone protocol, you can only get online when the train is within range of a cell tower. Sometimes the trains are way out in the sticks so you cannot get online.
My only gripe is that the food is scanty and very expensive, although it is quite tasty. Pack some sandwiches.
Please mail me URLs of software employers.
All I have to say (for now at least) is that these fuckers have earned the Epic Facepalm.
This space unintentionally left blank.
More proof that the government is secretly controlled by the Aluminati.
That makes me wonder why I would ever want to visit the USA. I'm sure there are lots of beautiful places to go to and enjoy, but why would I want a semi-educated thug feeling me up and confiscating shit because I might be a bomber. Come to think of it I'm probably on the "fuck this guy over" list because of this and similar comments on other forums. Fuck you NSA, you've cost your country a potential tourist spending several thousand dollars travelling, eating, drinking, visiting places .........
Whether you agree or disagree with the need for the TSA, the above is a lousy childish argument.
The spinkler system at my office has not put out a single fire. My smoke detector has not once detected smoke. My life insurance has not once payed out. The airbag in your car has not once inflated and safed your life. My helmet has not once protected my head from a crash.
The TSA could counter khasim logic very simply: Since the TSA has been in existence no terrorist action on US targets has been succesful.
Both statements are true. And totally irrelevant.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The "solar powered bomb" thing is just misdirection and a reason to confiscate aluminium foil. What they don't want to do is explicitly state how you can use aluminium foil as a component in an explosive device because it might give some of the terrorists an idea they wouldn't have had on their own.
The people who profit from making all these inane rules are ultimately the manufacturers of the screening equipment, the people training security staff, et cetera. In other words, the military-industrial-security complex. It is with them (and the politicians who sell us out to them) that we must start redressing our grievances. We must also stop sensationalising every one-in-a-million occurrence (terrorism, being struck twice by lightning) and start mitigating the effects of problems that will likely impact us all (e.g., climate change).
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Everyone knows solar powered bombs are green and good for the environment.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
We need better screening to stop drugs making it through to TSA management.
Last month I flew from Bangkok to Hong Kong. The security people stole my fingernail scizzors. I am still looking for a replacement. They also took a bottle of Vasaline Lotion purchased in 7/11. Warnings talk about "less than 100 ml" and "more than 100 ml" but nobody knows what happens if the bottle is exactly 100 ml.
I give up - no more flying. There is an overland route from Bangkok through Laos and China to Hong Kong. Actually there is an overland route from Bangkok to damned near anywhere in the world.
Security people are bred for facist chromosomes.
Can someone just fly a bomb into every TSA HQ and end this idiocy already?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
ie: America should just admit it lost.
Haven't lost but were hurt, just didn't wish to acknowledge it
After the trade towers, you heard "it's not going to change us one bit", yet at the same time people started flying flags from their houses.
Well it changed their routine.
Then there were the Freedom Fries, cause the French saw through the BS Bush was pushing. The U.S. people condemned them for knowing the truth.
Please no political response; what I posted is the truth, you can't ignore that.
TSA needs the aluminum for their own tinfoil hats. Either that or their reselling it. Around here it's the copper their after.
Onda Technology Institute
I do wonder if they are taking the threat of homeopathic bombs seriously.
I mean once they have a tiny bit of explosive there is practically no limit to how much they could dilute it on the plane!
Nothing the TSA does has anything to do with security.
We know that, the story was old years ago. The real question I don't see asked often enough and answered even less is: What does it have to do with? Why do they do this bullshit, and why does it get more transparent? Why have we reached the part where even regular people begin to understand the TSA is full of it?
Is it just stupidity? Really? While you shouldn't always look for malice, there's also a point where stupidity ceases to be the most likely explanation.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I more or less agree with everything you just said. This blog by Bruce Schneier gives another nice perspective on it.
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
The simple fact that a discussion like this comes up proves that the terrorists have already won, big time. The hundreds of billions of dollars that the world spends on "preventing" terrorist attacks is much more than the terrorists could have hoped for. They damage the economy, not by destroying buildings or killing people, but by making us spend an obscene amount of money in useless "anti-terrorist" measures.
We should stop all this. We should just hop on a plane and fly. Fuck the terrorists.
no, I don't have a sig
What would the conspiracy theorists interpret it when they start confiscating tin foil?
"If you think confiscating aluminum foil to prevent a solar powered bomb attack
I think the important news here is that terrorists are also concerned about the environment and are switching to green energy sources.
Since according to Monty Python, someone might attack you with a banana.
To ever-so-slightly reduce exposure of their camera sensors to Fantastic Four-creating cosmic rays.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Let me make a quick edit here...
"...and as new, improbable terrorist plots come to light, we will likely continue to be burdened with new, absurd rules."
...and as new, improbable terrorist plots come to light, they won't be on airlines...
Unless you have a disconnected, completely stupid terrorist, they will not use the same mechanism after it has been substantially controlled. They'll just move on to the next thing.
ie: America should just admit it lost.
I agree with you 100%. But keep in mind, (especially male) Americans are raised to believe that they are always the "best" and will always be the "winner", no matter what. There is no such thing as "losing" a fight. It's impossible for most males to admit they are "wrong". They can only go as far as to say they were not given all of the information necessary to make the correct decision, and even then that is a bit of a stretch because they must know everything at all times. Which is one of the stupidest things I started to believe when I was being raised as an American.
A better idea would have been to not react violently, but to make a public statement that we appreciate the work the terrorists have done to point out the weaknesses in our system (that have been corrected as of the time of [that] statement).
It would lure out the testosterone-angry ones and make them easy to find and catch. The others wouldn't know how to proceed because they haven't heard such a statement before. But what do I know? I'm just an idiot that thinks instead of operating with my balls' chemicals.
Wait, if we didn't attack back, the terrorists would have cut off oil supply to the world, right? Because the rest of the world would just accept that instead of destroying them on a 10,000,000 to 1 basis, right? Psh. I've said enough.
"re-direct it to the people at TSA headquarters" HAHAHAHAHA Like you have any say in the matter.
Got a clue for you - noone called (or calls) them "freedom fries". "French fries", maybe, "fries" more often.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Yah, then there was Libya. French sent forces in, then a couple days later had to come, hat in hand, to the USA - "uh, we don't have enough bombs to get this done...could we borrow some of your bombs, please?"
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
And how exactly should we "re-direct" our frustration to the "people at TSA headquarters who are being paid the big bucks to make the rules"? Should we all go down there and invite them to lunch? The TSA agents ARE the face of the TSA. They are the only part of the TSA agency that most people will ever come into contact with. If the TSA agents don't like being the face of an organization with absurd rules, then they should ALL quit. Maybe that would cause some kind of change to those absurd rules.
What else would you expect from the TSA? Their #1 job is to justify their existence and the only way they can is by finding more "restricted items". When passengers start complying with the current set of rules, the amount of restricted items goes down. To counter this downward trend, it is TSA HQ's job to issue more directives that are designed to increase the number of confiscations and therefore increase the justification for the TSA.
Who else would keep these "dangerous" items off the plane?
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Seriously, the train takes FOREVER in the mid-atlantic/northeast corridor. In fact, it takes longer to take the train than it does to drive. And it costs the same as gas if you're going solo, much more if you have 2 or more people travelling together.
Ex: fly to NY, INCLUDING arriving 1.5h before departure to allow for parking/TSA/etc. takes about 3.5 hrs from my town in S/W Virginia to NYC (6 if you have a connecting flight). The drive is 7 hours. The "direct" train is just shy of 9 hours if I count parking and arriving just 20 minutes before departure. And it's 30 miles closer to NYC than the airport. WTF? And the cheapest ticket, when they're available, is $65. Now, that's pretty good considering it would cost me $50 in gas. Definitely worth the $15 extra, probably worth the $80 for two of us. Except that there are exactly 2 trains that run on a typical day and only one on the weekend. You get there when you get there, which usually means at least one extra day of travel and one extra night in a hotel.
It has it's place, but with freight having first priority on US rails, I don't ever expect the train to become a preferred mode of transportation.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The TSA already has half the world paranoid as to their intentions, and now they've taken away people's ability to put on a trusty tinfoil hat? This is the step too far.
Don't worry, they'll just give you more on the plane anyway. Last time I flew the meal was served covered with foil and I got a soda in an aluminum can.
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
It's not just the TSA management though - It's also the people.
...so if you want non-stupid policies we the people have to loudly applaud when their are tiny steps in that direction, not flee in panic.
A year or so ago, TSA management announced that some sharps would be allowed back on planes. Makes sense - With post 9/11 policies in place it's not like you're going to take down a plane with a pen knife. The outcry from the flying public, flight attendants & the media forced the TSA to back pedal back to banning them.
Yes most people hate their jobs. The difference is, most people's jobs actually have some kind of point other than providing something for politicians to cover their asses with. Most people's jobs are not, 100% counterproductive.
Sorry, but I have no sympathy. You sign up to be part of the CYA jobs program, you get what you signed up for. You are the one who decides other people's travel plans and good day are worth less to you than your paycheck. You are the one who decides these stupid abusive orders are ok to follow.
The front line TSA agent bears 100% responsibility for his own actions, increasing the number of people involved should not decrease liability, it should compound it. Responsibility is not an either or. Its not either the front line is responsible or the higher ups are, they are ALL fully responsible for their own actions and for the actions they ask others to do.
Guilt is not some pie that gets sliced up and passed around. Each individual gets their own full one.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
If your job is stupid, then YOU need to tell your boss.
We already are. And we're hassling you because it's so stupid. The next step in the chain is for you to hassle your boss.
I've yet to hear, say, the TSA go on strike over the ridiculous things they are being asked to do, and getting complaints from the public over.
You can't just say "We think it's stupid too, but we haven't told anyone." It's up to you to feedback to the appropriate management what a huge waste of time this is, and how much negative feeling it's generating.
"Sorry, mate, not my fault, just doing my job"... the phrase that will end the world.
Worse for me.
Because of the US's stupid attitude towards terrorism, their allies (like my country) followed suit FOR NO OTHER REASON than to keep the US happy.
We've had worse terrorism, going on for longer, from much more dangerous and determined people. And we had none of this junk until the US decided to dictate what "wars" we should or should not get involved in.
I have the same ludicrous restrictions despite the fact that no such incident ever occurred on UK soil (and despite the fact that we had the Lockerbie bombing and all manner of IRA attacks DECADES earlier and never had to introduce shit like this for our security before).
The US has screwed my country's freedom. And then they wonder why other countries (like ones where they storm in, bomb the crap out of innocents, take out some terrorists - well, we assume those people they kidnapped to Guantanamo and never gave a fair trial and who are still there over 10 years later were terrorists - and then leave others to pick up the mess for years at an almost unbelievable expense) don't like them enough that their people attack them.
Looks like a real threat to me.
If I have to deal with Mindless idiocy, I always calmly inform the mindless idiot that their job is mindless and idiotic and that they deserve no respect from me or anyone who is not also a mindless idiot. Fuck them, and fuck their job. Idiots.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Maybe he drives a supertanker on the highway. At least the gas tank would be appropriately sized.
That must have been done on behalf of the ant lobby. Aluminum foil and magnifying glasses.
Have gnu, will travel.
Oh whatever, it's worth it. I'll gladly give up my aluminum foil in exchange for continued gropings by minimum wage employees.
Flying is in many ways one of the most surreal parts of my life. My tax dollars go towards paying this poor son of a bitch to feel me up for no good reason. I used to feel bad, but eventually that gave way to feeling dazed instead. I mean, I've become somewhat accustomed to being in this strange position where I can demand that a total stranger feels me up. How demeaning that must be! Even a greeter at Walmart retains more dignity than that.
Oftentimes, they ask why I'm opting out. My response is invariably "because I can", but I'm thinking about switching that up to either "because I like the feeling of superiority that comes with forcing strangers to do demeaning things" or "think of it as a jobs program for you guys". Maybe if we make their lives miserable enough, they'll finally quit and go work somewhere respectable like White Castle.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
It takes 9 hours to go from Omaha to Miami on Amtrack , and you can get a one way ticket for $275.
Yes, you can opt for the 23 train that takes two partial days (not three full days - although there might be a possible package for that too), and yes you can buy a cabin ticket for almost $1100.
http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/...
No it's not faster to drive, and I've driven such distances. Cheaper? Perhaps. If you have more than one person, definitely. Again, I've done this, I prefer to drive, and often get a rental with full coverage, in case I decide to pull any Jackass stunts ( with full coverage, I can take the car to a demolition derby before returning and not have any worries). It's definitely not more relaxing, especially if you're trying to beat a train going 90.
Note: if going from Omaha to Miami you'll probably go first to Chicago, and may get put on the City Of New Orleans (made famous by the song), and go to , you guessed, it New Orleans, then to Jacksonville, and then to Orlando, and then to Miami, there might be 3 to 5 train changes there. Then there are other, slower routes, with more changes.
It may be more rewarding to drive.
Also, it should be noted that some train stations have TSA agents and you'll still have to deal twith them sometimes by train. If you go that route. Trains can be fun though, no need to turn off your electronics, and you'll likely have excellent signal strengths wherever possible, plus a lot more room to get up and walk around and socialize.
Well no one, but some hrdcore Bush fanatics.
Not to mention the numerous on board oxygen generators that could be misused.
... decision-makers had an IQ that was right around room temperature.
As it turns out I wasn't specific enough. I meant Celsius and not Fahrenheit.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
I can honestly say that 99.9 percent of what the TSA is doing is a complete and utter waste of time and would not stop a trained terrorist with any experience.
But it sure burns up lots of money that gets certain firms lots of money.
Just get real and realize the problem is Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, and to a lesser extent Afghanistan and stop buying oil from there or trading with them.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
No, it is perfectly plausable in a world filled with three eyed fish and where kids never age.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
FTA:
My six years at the TSA played out like a circus of absurd security regulations, presided over by a coterie of managers who, for the most part, made the Keystone Cops look competent.
Oh man that's just cold Harrington. Such an insult to the Keystone Cops.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
When I read the headline, I thought that TSA was thinking of someone using the foil to make a parabolic mirror to burn something.
Well, maybe a canyonero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
The trouble is that with the methods en vogue among this young generation of terrorists (blowing themselves up), they can hardly accumulatae any experience. That is, if they survived training...
It takes 9 hours to go from Omaha to Miami on Amtrack , and you can get a one way ticket for $275.
No, no it doesn't. You are just counting the first leg of the trip: Omaha to Chicago. *That* takes 9+ hours. It takes literally days worth of ass in the train seat to get to Miami from Omaha, because they shunt you from Omaha to Chicago to DC and then down to Miami. Don't neglect the major stopovers you can get hit with when transferring trains.
If you don't believe me, as yourself how an Amtrak train can travel the 1,400 mile Great Circle distance between those two cities in 9 hours. That would be equivalent to a magical Amtrak travelling between the cities, as the crow flies, at ~150 mph.
Dude: it takes *days* to take the train on that Amtrak route. You can leave Omaha tomorrow, at 5 AM, and arrive in Miami 2.5 days later... at 6 PM on 24 February. It's not going to get much better than that.
But hey, if you have a line on Great Circle bullet train routes in the US, by all means let me know. Would save me time over driving.
From TFA:
âoeWhat the hell are these idiots up in D.C. talking about?â he asked. âoeWhy would anyone need a solar powered bomb indoors, on a plane?â
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The real reason the TSA doesn't want you to carry tinfoil has nothing to do with solar powered bombs. They don't want you to block out their mind control rays... /end black humour mode