Slashdot Mirror
New Jersey Auto Dealers Don't Want to Face Tesla
cartechboy writes "It feels like this story is becoming repetitive: X state is trying to ban Tesla stores, or the ability for an automaker to sell directly to a consumer. Either way, it's all aimed at Tesla. Now it's New Jersey's turn as a hearing today could end up banning Tesla stores in the state. Naturally Tesla's displeased with this and is crying foul. A rule change that is expected to be approved today would require all new-car dealers to provide a franchise agreement in order to receive a license from the state. Obviously Tesla (the manufacturer) can't provide a franchise agreement to itself (the distributor). The proposed rule would also require dealers to maintain a 1,000 square foot facility, the ability to show two cars, and service customer cars on site. Tesla doesn't meet that last requirement at any of its galleries, and most of the Tesla stores are located in shopping malls which mean they are smaller than 1,000 square feet. Tesla's arguing the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission is overstepping its bounds. Will Tesla be able to defeat this new rule in New Jersey as it has overcome issues in many other states?" (Also covered by the Wall Street Journal.)
Here's a perfect example of why the federal Constitution has an interstate commerce clause. States are interfering with interstate commerce to protect local businesses. Time for some federal legislation to shut this down.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
The right wing should be opposed on free-market principles. The left wing should be opposed on environmental grounds. So which politicians should be in favour of this regulation again?
Sure would be great if I can make a law that bans competition from out of country, out of state, or whomever I do not want to compete with me when I negotiate a contract job.
What I could charge? The sky would be the limit.
Of course that is evil damn socialism for me and we can't have that now can we? But if some businesses or corporations do the same thing. Then it is for the good of the economy and ok etc.
http://saveie6.com/
Since we are constantly regaled how awful the Tesla is. - They all burn up, they are stupid, They are too expensive, I can't drive the Trans American Highway in one, electric cars suck - why don't we just let the free market do what it always does, eliminates bad products.
I'm pretty sure at other times, car dealership owners are all about the free market, competition, and the heartbeat of America.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The number two is ridiculous and can't exist.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
The solution is to bitch publicly like this for now, but the reality is they need a workaround. They need to set up a separate company much like Coke had a separate bottler. Have them do local service and be the jiffy lube of Tesla and join/kiss ass of all these regional moderately powerful/rich douche bags.
it's the president/precedent/prescience/whatever
... unless other automakers follow suit.
Because so many states are disallowed.
Have gnu, will travel.
Why can't the Governor of New Jersey act as a bridge between the two parties?
Keep up your valiant defense of the free market. :S
What's wrong with the requirement to be able to service customer vehicles on site? Making it as convenient as possible to buy a car but having to take it to some far off location to actually get it fixed under warranty sounds like lousy customer service.
1. Find out which dealerships belong to the associations trying to block sales of electric cars.
2. Find out which cars the dealerships sell.
3. Let the car manufacturers know that you (and family members) will never consider buying their products and the reason why.
NJ has demonstrated time and again that corrupt politics rule the day. The state car dealer association controls a substantial amount of kickba...er...political contribution budget.
Hopefully, Tesla doesn't knuckle under and just encourages NJ purchasers to head over to NY or PA and buy their cars there.
Many members of Congress own car dealerships or are closely associated with those who do.
Being protected monopolies, they are very profitable.
Surely you've noticed that all the products of technology get cheaper every year except cars?
For a free country you americans sure have a lot of rules. Minimum square meters, service on site, minimum 2 cars, bla bla. Soviet Russia was probably less restrictive on selling freaking cars. They are CARS. Nuclear weapons have less regulations lately...
Companies do not like change and competition.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
As someone who once sold cars, TVs, and stereos I wholeheartedly agree. It's taken me years to wash the stink off.
Stupid, yes.
How much of an obstacle?
The most difficult requirement is the franchise agreement. Maybe if Tesla split itself in to 2 companies, one for manufacturing, the other for retail and service operations, they could satisfy this requirement.
A 1000 sq ft "show room" in a mall is possible. Every Apple store I have been in has had at least 1000 sq ft of sales floor, plus back room space.
On site servicing could be possible depending on how strict the definition of "on site" is. Example, when Circuit City still had stores, the one near me had a store in the mall with an installation facility in a corner of the mall's parking lot. ("Anchor stores" like Sears often have attached auto service facilities, but I seriously doubt any mall would allow Tesla to do that.)
Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
The car manufacturers are at the mercy of the dealers and dealer associations. In their heart of hearts, some would like to pursue Tesla's strategy or at least compete with the dealers.
You can punish the manufacturers but they can't do anything back.
Vehicle dealers and real estate developers are reliable large contributors to local politicians.
You're making it more complex than it is.
You can get parts for anything and still get it fixed. If there is a market. You have no point.
There are no laws that require dealers to stock 20 years old parts. You have no point.
Tesla doesn't ban service on their cars. You have no point.
If many Teslas are sold, there will be a market for parts. You have no point.
If you buy a Tesla and there are a million of those Teslas sold, you will be able to get service. Even if it's not from Tesla. You have no point.
You should actually check facts before spewing...
http://www.teslamotors.com/findus - right column is service centers around the country.
Yes, quite true. I'll just run down the road to my local (California) MG dealer to get parts for my '71 MG...... Oh wait!
Guess what, parts for my MG usually cost less than than equivalent parts on new cars.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Yes, I can come up with a thousand free market answers. And yes, that pretty much answers your question.
Would you buy a vehicle from any company whatsoever if you knew that parts were difficult to acquire? A manufacturer can play a game with parts availability only if they don't plan to stay in business.
Maybe we should go back to renting our phones from ATT as well.
Bruce Perens.
Gouged in ways you can't imagine?
Try this one on for size. I drive a 2003 Acura TL. Several years ago, one of the headlights failed. I took it to a shop where I was told that it needed $700 worth of electrical parts from the factory. Not knowing better, I paid the bill.
Last year, I had the exact same problem with the other headlight, only now, I'm being told that it will cost over $1000. I finally did the right thing and asked for help online. I was directed to a company that had after-market parts drop-shipped to me directly from China for about $50., less than 1/20 of what the stealership wanted. The parts from that company seem just as good as the parts from the dealer, so there's one way I got gouged.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
I find it hard to believe that dealers are stocking parts for every single model and year ever made. Can you really walk into a dealer and pick up a part for a '94 Honda right now?
I have an 07 and have been told "X is broke. We need to get you a new one and it's going to take us Y time." Fortunately most parts are standard so you don't need to special order an oil filter. Things like oil filters, control arm brackets, and hoses don't exactly change much year over year.
There are also a number of shops and mechanics who somehow have parts and can fix cars without running an entire dealership. When I needed the rear half of my car rebuilt, I didn't go to the dealer. I sent to a body shop and they somehow managed to get parts. I'm guessing they called the manufacturer and ordered half of a car :P
If we remove the dealer who is going to stock parts, deliver them, and install them?
The Tesla service center. Owned and operated by the manufacturer but not necessarily co-located with the sales showroom.
There are federal regulations mandating service and spare parts availability. I see no problem with Tesla (or any other manufacturer or dealer) devising alternate support infrastructures for their products. So long as they meet the needs of the customer.
Tesla might actually provide better service than the average dealer. I bought a Toyota years ago from a dealer some distance from my residence and much farther away than the nearest one. If you want to se some long faces and snotty attitudes, watch the close by dealership service department when I bring in a car I didn't buy from them. Count on them leaving it parked for a few extra days "waiting for parts" just as a little "fuck you for not buying it here".
Have gnu, will travel.
So the only reason for dealers to exist is to replicate the functions of an auto parts store and UPS? And that's why Tesla can't sell cars to people? That's absurd.
My buddy had to get his '95 Honda Accord repaired recently. The process for that (admittedly in Canada) was, take car to mechanic, mechanic orders parts online, parts are shipped to mechanic, mechanic installs parts. What exactly is the huge problem with that process that justifies making selling cars illegal?
I'm sure you can come up with a thousand free market answers
So why did you post? There are tens of thousands of free market answers - businesses of all sorts to provide the parts or the repair service.
This isn't the first time that someone has defended a rent-seeking activity on the shady grounds that a widely available service market might not exist otherwise. I suspect most of these laws date from the last time this was tried wholesale in the US, during the Great Depression. I believe such things were a large part of why the Great Depression was so severe and long.
Eventually either you stop getting parts and service for cars after 5 years or your start getting gouged in ways you can only imagine.
You don't have to imagine the gouging. Just get work done at a dealership.
Laws in Texas for example:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/OC/htm/OC.2301.htm#2301.4671
(c) Except as provided by this section, a manufacturer or distributor may not directly or indirectly:
(1) own an interest in a franchised or nonfranchised dealer or dealership;
(2) operate or control a franchised or nonfranchised dealer or dealership; or
(3) act in the capacity of a franchised or nonfranchised dealer.
Bollocks.
Cars arent going to run out of parts after 5 years if a dealer stops stocking them. If there is a market for the parts then third party manufacturers will keep them coming for 20 years.
Dealerships stock some genuine parts at very large mark ups. There are plenty of other auto parts distributors that stock far more genuine and non-genuine spare parts and do so at a better price.
Common mistake. You have been used to the "truth in labeling law" "truth in advertising law" etc for so long, you have assumed it applies to everyone. Sorry my dear friend, the politicians are exempted from those laws. They can label themselves "free market loving libertarian right wingers" or "mother earth worshiping tree hugging beer-can-recycling post-cosumer-waste-reconsuming environment loving left wingers". But there is absolutely no guarantee the politician you find under those labels are truly what the label says.
That's because you're making two straw men and knocking them down. I guarantee you that folks like Alan Greyson on the left and Rand Paul on the right would support Tesla here and they're not the most extreme on either end - however, we're talking about super-corrupt NJ who still think bridgegate-Christie is a decent governor. You know, the one that gave out pieces of the 9/11 wreckage as political gifts to crony mayors (both Dem and GOP)?
Yeah, that's one corrupt state. I'm certainly not surprised they'd shut out Tesla, in favor of their political-machine-supporting good-op-boy network of car dealers and manufacturers.
In the end, it's all about the money, and NJ has a ton of money mucking with it's politics.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
No kidding. I wouldn't expect anything different from the northern states I fled. This is the same system that can't get rid of the beer distributor system in PA that benefits no-one but their membership. Hope they all sink!
Anyone who does their own work on their car generally acknowledges dealerships as a complete ripoff and somewhere no one who cares at all about their wallet should ever step foot in (besides, I guess, to buy a car). The colloquialism on car forums is "stealership."
NAPA, AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts, O'Reilly, etc etc provide a distribution network for parts. In fact, for an older car, you are generally more likely to find the part in stock at your local autozone than your local dealership parts counter. And, usually, for less than half the price. The free market has already provided a solution to the problem. You can get a suspension part at any price point from "cheap Chinese crap" up to "better quality than original."
And often times even "OEM" parts, which are parts produced by the manufacturer who made the original piece that went on the car. You didn't really think Honda made the parts that go in that car did you? No, they designed the specs and companies like Bosch, Moog, Luk, AC Delco developed parts to fit those specs. And are happy to sell you the identical product (sometimes with just the Honda label scratched off) for half the price Honda would charge you.
If you are the internet shopping type (which, since you are on /. seems likely), you can even get replacement parts shipped directly to your doorstep from places like RockAuto for even cheaper than you would find them at your local AutoZone (which, remember, is already probably half the price of the dealer).
You take your car to any independent mechanic and it is damn near impossible that they will get their parts from the dealer. NAPA even delivers parts to shops within hours.
Basically, if you get your Accord serviced at the stealership... er dealership, you are getting ripped off. Google ANY Honda forum and ask them to see what they say, but prepare to be flamed. If you ask nicely, they will probably even recommend good local independent mechanics for you!
Parent quoted for those using awful beta who can't click the "parent" link ;)
thought I'd chime in on why dealerships are getting a free ride before the thread is choked with constitutionalists :P.
Dealers stock parts and provide a distribution network for said parts. This is why my '94 Honda Accord still runs (and why my Volvo 240 DL would have been running if that $#%@! hadn't rear ended me).
If we remove the dealer who is going to stock parts, deliver them, and install them? I'm sure you can come up with a thousand free market answers, but the fact is running that sort of business is _expensive_. Most of the obvious solutions become races to the bottom. Eventually either you stop getting parts and service for cars after 5 years or your start getting gouged in ways you can only imagine.
So yeah, it's a bit more complex an issue then just: Dealers Bad! Tesla Good!....
Dealers stock parts and provide a distribution network for said parts. This is why my '94 Honda Accord still runs
As someone who has spent quite a bit of time keeping older cars on the road, I feel compelled to ask: what in the WORLD are you talking about?
The right wing should be opposed on free-market principles. The left wing should be opposed on environmental grounds. So which politicians should be in favour of this regulation again?
The pragmatists & cynics who need local, wealthy donors to bankroll their campaigns.
From the movie:
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T. And Dupont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today [in 1976]. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state? Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations inextricably determined by the immutable by-laws of business. The world is a business Mr. Beale. It has been since man climbed out of the slime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk&t=2m15s
And the right only believe in free market until a business pushing a leftie concept comes along, and then government regulation is suddenly mandated by God.
| If we remove the dealer who is going to stock parts, deliver them, and install them
Um? An auto parts supply company? The distributors of the manufacturer?
| I'm sure you can come up with a thousand free market answers, but the fact is running that sort of business is _expensive_. Most of the obvious solutions become races to the bottom. Eventually either you stop getting parts and service for cars after 5 years or your start getting gouged in ways you can only imagine.
How would the economic incentives be different between dealers and a non-dealer parts supply company? Tesla would have an interest in supplying parts for N years by law or by sales because they don't want to inhibit sales because their customers are concerned their expensive purchases will be unrepairable after 5 years. They would make sure the parts are available.
And what's so special about cars compared to other equipment where there aren't franchise laws but there is a need for parts and maintenance?
(The answer is the profitability of dealerships and their campaign contribution habits)
The other automakers didn't like it either but they have too much invested and too much to lose.
Tesla is the only new major automaker in decades anyway, and therefore the only one without existing dealer relationships which would be at risk.
but the dealers run the parts network. Also, car companies keep parts around because of laws that say they have to, not because they love you as a customer.
I don't trust Tesla not to drop me like a rock when it's no longer profitable to support me...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
thought I'd chime in on why dealerships are getting a free ride before the thread is choked with constitutionalists :P.
If we remove the dealer who is going to stock parts, deliver them, and install them?
I didn't see the story where Tesla is trying to make dealerships illegal.
Don't forget that a internal combustion engine business has to stock one each shitload more parts than a company making a total EV.
This is simply a fear based anti-competitive move. Dealerships are afraid that Tesla will come along and start eating their lunch.
But isn't that silly? the Anti Tesla/anti Electric Vehicle crowd have been in here lecturing us for a long time as to just how awful the Tesla is. I ran down it's huge number of faults. already, hard to understand how the company won't fail in the next month or so. What are the IC engine dealerships so afraid of?
It's so bad that reviewers have faked data to make it look bad. I haven't seen a review since Tesla showed how it logs all the car's data.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Perhaps you're too young to remember what he's alluding to.
In the "old" days (way back in the 60's and early 70's), your phone bill came with an extra charge that was MANDATORY called "phone rental." You were required to pay for renting the actual phone that sat in your house. You were barred from using any phone that was not provided by the phone company. There were lawsuits, and it was eventually ruled that a common carrier could not tether their service to rental of equipment that only they were allowed to provide.
In more recent times, the shift from government protecting consumers to government being bought by corporations has led to the whole locked cell phones and ISP's charging rental for modems they require you to rent from them.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
This is a complete mischaracterization of what's going on. It's not that they don't want to compete with Tesla, it's that they want a cut. Right now, it's illegal for automakers to own car dealerships in most states, because when cars were in early adoption the state government didn't want to allow a situation where a car manufacturer pulled out of a state completely because it was unprofitable, leaving the citizens of that state unable to buy cars easily. So dealerships are independent from the manufacturers. Tesla is bypassing this 100 year old, out of date system, because it no longer makes sense, but the dealers aren't afraid of electric cars, they just want to make Tesla "play by the rules" and let the dealers sell (or not) the Tesla cars, so that they an make a profit off them like they do every other car manufacturer.
Who on the right is saying that?
Don't go there. It's not about politics it's about money. I'm as far right as anyone around but I can't see where it's any government's business to regulate to this level. The only possible purpose this law has is to squeeze one business out to protect the established ones. I'm tired of these so called "conservatives" pushing more government regulation. He's not conservative he's a monopolist.
Taking this to the limit, if you have an older BMW, it will cost more than a new one to keep it going. If you have some skills and go aftermarket for parts, it costs the same as a normal car to keep running. I have learned NOT to buy any car without a thriving aftermarket for parts. You do have to avoid Pacific Rim imitation parts, but I have bought many BMW and Honda parts with, as the OP noted, the company brand dremeled off.....for half or less price.
My cable company forces me to rent a box to descramble a signal I pay for......and unlike phones there are very limited choices.
No, you have to order it. They aren't required to have them in stock, but they are required to carry them. Of course, they order them from the manufacturer, so there's no reason you can't eliminate the dealer.
Learn to love Alaska
Telsa's sales are a drop in the bucket compared to most makes. Are the dealers afraid that the majors are going to copy Tesla's model and cut them out of the business?
As a non-American, can somebody please explain to me why it is "wrong" for a car company to sell cars directly?
Why do car dealerships get any special treatment, laws and government protection to prop up their existence?
What is so special about a car dealership, why are they allowed to ban a car company from selling.....cars?
Why does this weird shit happen in America?
Im not aware of this weird state of affairs happening in any other country, what is so special about cars?
Its like banning HP from selling computers. Makes no fucking sense at all.
Because so many states are disallowed.
Partner with Koingesseggessegesgeg... Because eventually they'll have to fill out a form to block them and no-one will be able to spell it.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
We can buy an iPhone direct from Apple instead of a wireless provider just as much as buying a TV directly from Samsung or an infinite amount of other goods and services on the internet or in showrooms dedicated to a certain product or line of products. Why are cars the exception??
I guess its no surprise considering that its still illegal to pump your own gas in NJ.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
IANAL, but can owners of Tesla open up a puppet company and sell cars on uneasonable terms to it?
By interefering with the sales of Tesla Motors these dealerships are trying to restrain trade. A good judge and jury might award a ton of money to Tesla if any justice occurs. This is a form of evidence that perhaps we need to completely shut down the big three as they obviously intend to continue to use unfair and illegal business practices. As a person we all must decide whether we support crime or not. Restraint of trade is criminal. Therefore the traditional dealerships are public enemies and should be treated as such.
In New Jersey, Tesla should hire Wolff & Samson as their lawyers.
Middlemen are useful for acting as intermediaries between the producer and consumer. However, if the producer can reach the consumer directly, then there need be no laws stopping them doing so. Middlemen add cost to the end customer, so if there the opportunity to cut them out, then it should be taken.
Incidentally, this is why i don't like the idea of american healthcare, as the insurance companies are effectively middlemen who add cost to the whole system with no increase in overall value.
In most countries even trying something like this (N.B. even for mostly socialistic ones) would just be laughed at - being obviously illegal.
Only once ever have I been to a dealer for parts (and never again). Common service items such as oil filters, gaskets and various other bits and pieces can come from any generic parts store. Anything else can be found via some shop on the internet (and for older cars, the scrap yard will usually yield a spare in good condition - when I owned an older car, my parts needs were nearly always fulfilled by the local scrappy)
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Every politician is the correct answer, nowadays.
You are forgetting 'Lobby' influence, and how cheap the congresscritters can be bought by 'special influence' groups.
Yes, it's a conflict of interest, but who cares.
The only thing that seems to matter is how much 'mileage' you can get out of your agenda....FSCK right or wrong.
It's the 'new way', get used to it, or fight it....your choice.
I choose to 'fight'.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
All Tesla needs to do is find the right people to cut in on the "action" and well Bobs^HVinnies Your Uncle.
But seriously this needs to stop.
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
1) Manufacturers can also provide financing, and do. You have no point
2) Free market. Manufacturers are required to provide these defect fixes in any case. You have no point.
The auto market in the US is fucked, as dealerships have written their own laws to protect their business. Pretty much all manufacturers want to move to an agency model, as the adversarial dealership model, where they exist purely to get a margin out of both the customer and manufacturer, isnt healthy for customer service and competition.
As proven her e- the dealers do not want an agency model competing against their model, so are pushing for laws that are solely designed to protect their current business model. Flag waving men in front of cars springs to mind
State law insists that all traffic remain in the right-hand lane unless passing, or turning left. That has been in effect for decades, but suddenly now it is an issue?
Not to pick on Oklahoma(I live in Stillwater, OK), this is nationwide, because everyone knows 'the 'fast lane' is faster.
It's a sad fact, but that is how it is nowadays.
The 'correct responce' would have been: ;-)Yeah, that's it. *former PA resident
1.) get vehicle make/model/description
2.) any vehicle ID numbers(dump truck, corp. vehicle, etc.)
3.) Lic tag #
4. ) Give info to Insurance agent
5.)????Profit?
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Tesla maintains their own service centers, they even have one in New Jersey that services the NYC metro area. Regarding loans, they can easily assign that to a 3rd party lender to handle or the customer can arrange their own financing. Dealerships have lending offices as a matter of convenience and profit (sells more cars, plus they can pocket a percentage of the interest on a loan).
I generally get parts for my (more than 10 years old) cars from an auto parts store for less than the dealer charges. My mechanic does the same thing. For that matter, so do some of the dealers around me.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
and in turn , the manufacturer has a list of common parts the dealer has to hold, to reduce customer wait time and to stop them asking for *everything* on rush order because they cant service the customers car there and then.
(disclosure - I work for a German car company, and have audited this area in the past)
Man, what a corrupt state.
Why not? Corporations license stuff to themselves all the time, corporations sell themselves stuff all the time, why can't corporations license themselves? That's not obvious at all. Or perhaps they should have to incorporate their dealership network in each state, then grant an agreement to the network? It's still just one hand washing the other, though, attached to the same organism.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Don't go there. It's not about politics it's about money.
You say that as though there was a difference.
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
Tesla could play their game if they wanted to. For example, set up a separate dealership company which can contact with the manufacturing arm. If Apple can do it for tax purposes, Tesla could do it too.
Or you know, you could look at what Tesla actually does...
It's a combination of the fact that Teslas require only a minute fraction of the service of a normal internal combustion engine car, and that Tesla already provides better service than any dealership in existence. They have service centres all over the place (who cares if it's in the same place as the store if it's no further away) and you don't even have to go to the service centre because they will either send a mechanic to your doorstep, or pick up the car from your home or office for you (and replace it with a loaner if service will take longer than you can wait)
So why would I want to force their stores (best located in high foot traffic areas like malls) to be co-located with their service centres (best located in low rent areas like industrial parks) when it doesn't do anything to help me as a consumer? The only thing that it would do is either increase costs (paid in the end by the consumer) or decrease convenience (again at the expense of the consumer)
This law doesn't look at what the most advantageous model is for the consumer, it looks at what the existing business model is of the dealerships and forces everyone in to that mould effectively prohibiting any improvement to it.
Talk about fighting the previous war.
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
I await the righteous Republican outrage over this violation of free market principals and the intrusion of big government into private commerce. Oh, you mean that was all just talk? Move along then.
Where's the outcry from those who claim to be capitalists re the 'free market" and "let the market decide?"
It seems like it's okay to "let the market decide" as long as only their business is allowed to be in the market.
But if there is a possible market failure here then it needs to be addressed.
An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
And this is EXACTLY why the dealers are in an uproar. You notice that it's the dealers, not the manufacturers, that are going nuts? Why hasn't Chevrolet, Chrysler, Ford, et. al. jumped into the fray to support their dealer networks? Because they want to do exactly the same thing, but don't dare alienate their dealers! They are already excersizing their power by killing off a lot of dealers, in order to discourage price shopping and leveraging between dealerships. The surviving dealers love this, because now they can run their pricing wherever they want and not have to worry about pesky competition and empowered customers.
The real story here is Tesla success is making everybody else look bad.
They are a threat to much more than the car dealers. They are a threat to the innovate at a snails pace mantra of Detroit. They are a threat to big oil companies. Electricity is about 1/4 the cost of gasoline mile per mile (even comparing a Model S with a Prius, even considering the Model S is a large premium sedan, versus the Prius being a mid size). And they got this far in less than two years of Model S sales. Give them another 5 years and the auto industry will be undergoing an earthquake of innovation with Tesla at the forefront and few companies with enough agility to try to follow.
It won't take long until a few of those state representatives don't get re-elected for their Tesla actions.
Tesla adoption is spreading like wildfire. If Tesla had twice the li-ion battery supply, they would be delivering twice as much.
I have to think the courts are only going to follow the letter of the law in this case, since the spirit of the law is to screw over consumers arbitrarily increasing costs by unnecessarily introducing a middleman.
Setting up a separate dealership/showroom company and then making that company its own separate company with a different board of directors and different management which simply has some sort of exclusive contract with Tesla conforming to whichever state that it is in and then giving Tesla's current investors ownership stakes does seem like it would solve the problem and put a degree of separation between the two entities.
So for instance they could spin off a new company Tesla NJ LLC which simply has a franchise agreement to show Tesla cars in NJ with some sort of contract for doing so. Make the company directly owned by Tesla's existing investors by spinning the company off rather than by Tesla and that should be enough of an arms length for regulators or else it should be upheld by the courts on appeal.
It is more expensive because of the overhead of paying for a completely separate management, but I do recall some old Supreme Court precedents that uphold this state control over licensing requirements for dealerships so directly challenging these laws without new Federal laws to back them up might be problematic.
But that doesn't mean that courts are going to uphold anything more than the letter of the law for a something that clearly negatively effect consumers by arbitrarily increasing costs.
wow, I have the same car (2003 TL), and that is one of my rants. Not only about stealership pricing, but HID headlamps (aka unnecessarily complex technology without any significant gains).
But, FYI in the end i'm running a stock system rather than one of the aftermarket ones, because I discovered a few things.
First, is that no one seems to be able to actually diagnose these things. Is it the bulb, ballast or igniter, or something else? That is why you end up spending $700+labor. Cause the standard practice is to replace the whole shebang if something goes wrong.
Second is that getting the "right" bulb is critical. I spent a few hundred dollars replacing crap and swapping things between left/right, and still not getting consistent ignition. The new "OEM match", name brand bulbs, I was purchasing for $70 from autozone, and another aftermarket vendor were basically crap (DOA or dead in a couple weeks). I assume the ones from the dealer are better tested, but in the end I found a decent brand at oreilly that literally solved all my issues. I would say at this point buy the $120 bulbs from the dealer as the first solution...
But, the second thing that probably causes the most problems is the igniter socket. When a pair of bulbs gets old it requires more power to keep the arc going and the socket tends to deform a little from the extra heat. This means that even a new set of bulbs may not be getting a clean contact in the socket. This results in either too high resistance to generate the arc, or it arcs in the socket!
So, shimming/sanding the (internal) contacts so they are tight against the bulb does wonders.
Finally, if you can see any arc when you turn the headlamp on (do this in a dark garage) the electronics are probably working and its a bulb problem.
Lastly, even the dealerships don't seem to know this information because they quoted me $1000 to replace all that crap after charging me $100 to "diagnose" what was wrong. In the end all the car actually needed was a little TLC and a decent pair of bulbs.
BTW: I did a bit of rock climbing a few years ago..
I'm not taking sides here... only looking at things from an objective point of view. Any company doing honest business should have the privilege to sell anywhere they want, just as long as all common laws are accounted for and taxes are paid in good faith. Just because Tesla wants to sell its own cars directly to consumers, doesn't mean the violated any laws. I mean if this should be banned, then other manufacturers of other consumer items should be banned too? Besides, Tesla says "No NJ, no problem!". And that's good for them. Tesla vehicles are the new trend. Consumers are willing to go a bit of extra miles to get it. I would just setup stores near the NJ borders and they just need to cross that border to bring the car back to NJ. The NJ dealers can't get a piece of business from Tesla and being competed due to the attractive vehicle so they play dirty. We are not talking about requirements of a franchise dealer here... we're simply talking about not allowing Tesla to sell direct. NJ is pathetic! The governor is definitely pathetic...
And if that list was for the manufacturer's own part stores, or dealer part departments, would the manufacturer's stocks change?
Learn to love Alaska
Restraint of trade. Imagine that happening in New Jersey.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
Nearly all states have laws that do roughly the same thing. (48 if i remember correctly.) It's not a republican or democrat thing, it's just the nature of how laws can be manipulated by special interests. It's the same reason we have laws to license many professions such as hairdressers, plumbers, etc. It sucks but it just shows that money and intensity gets things done in politics.
Car sales are a bit different from most retail because there is an ongoing service relationship with the dealer. It has become increasingly difficult to get modern cars repaired by anybody other than the official repair centers (mostly because of the need for specialized diagnostic equipment), so it is important to choose a car where the quality of that service is high and that it is easy for you to get to. (Tesla has taken care of the latter issue: they pick up your car for service.)
Cars are also a product where it can be important to try out the product before buying. Test drives can reveal problems with a car that will make it unsuitable for you: not fitting well in the driver's seat, poor sight lines for somebody of your dimensions, inability to hold things that you carry on a regular basis, and so on. More extended tests are even more revealing. I don't think I would buy a car unless I had the opportunity to live with a similar car for a day, and I'm willing to pay the cost of renting my prime purchase candidate to make that happen if I can't borrow one from a friend.
Side note: one reason the Apple Store has been such a success is that they let you test drive their computers. They have multiple units of everything they sell set up in the store and they will let you use them for significant periods of time. The test computers have full Internet access and allow you to download and install programs (no password required) so you can try them out and determine whether their computer will work well with the programs YOU care about before buying. (They restore the systems regularly with a factory disk image.)
Many car dealers make the buying process painful. What I want is the opportunity to learn about and drive the cars that interest me with no pressure from sales people. Help me if I ask for it; leave me alone if I don't. Give me the opportunity to drive the car, preferably with no sales person present. Forget about trying pressure sales tactics like saying that I must buy NOW to get a deal; I'll walk out the door if you attempt that. And forget all the stupid price negotiations: tell me what your real price is and let me decide whether I like the deal. I'll find out what your real price is on the Internet anyway so you might as well just tell me - or better yet, put it on signs on the cars. Your profits all come from the service relationship anyway.
What, in the (allegedly) Land of the Free and Home of the Brave, is the State doing issuing licenses to businesses to operate?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Ah, income tax. I had forgotten about that. Yeah. I'm not really worried about that. I can see why you are. Difference of opinion.
Show me a Free Market. Anywhere. Any time. Please. :D
The CIA and NSA are doing more than invading your privacy. They're forming public opinion by using astroturfing, shills, social media tricks, etc. And you think the phasing out of incadescents is a trick to get into your house? Ugh....
"Obamaphones" is a non issue, a made up issue.... and a little subsidy that existed long before him. Whatever. Meanwhile, I don't see your kind railing against huge subsidies for profitable companies.....
Why on earth would I want to live in North Korea? It's a dictatorship hellhole. Logical Fallacy: Black or White. How about I go live in scandanavia? They have lots of socialism, but also lots of capitalism, and pretty women. :D
It's true, I shouldn't get so riled up.
No, it's not terrible that people have to buy bicycles. Lookk !@#$. No one is saying everyone has to be equal. The only people saying that are YOU people, when you're making up what we think. We lefties don't say that. That's !@#$ing silly. Every living creature on this earth has to work for it's food and shelter. We don't say differently. What we want is an equal playing field, and it's quite obvious that the United States, as it's going, is Corrupted by the influence of Money. And monied people don't like sharing, and they've been rigging the game in their favor for decades now. We just want to level the playing field so everyone has equal OPPORTUNITY. Equal Stuff is just.... ew. Terrible.
Also, I'm 35. I'm not quite a young wippersnapper. I'm gainfully employed. I'm starting a business. I'm a capitalist....
And Heinlein is great. I've read quite a bit of his stuff, with an open mind. The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress is a great book. (also a libertarian wet dream and A Work Of Fiction) Also, he's a dirty old man, but a lot of them were in those days... Zinn is hardly a communist. Hell, he might BE a commie, but that doesn't matter. The book is really great. Really. Go read it, with an open mind....
Rand Paul is not Ron Paul. Ron would absolutely support Tesla... Rand? Eh.... He's.... kind of a Tool. Sorry, but he is.