Smart Car Tipping Trending In San Francisco

First time accepted submitter hackajar1 (1700328) writes "Is it a crime of opportunity or another page in the current chapter of Anti-Tech movement in San Francisco? Either way, the new crime trending in San Francisco invloves tipping Smart Cars on their side. While they only take 3 — 4 people to tip, this could just be kids simply having "fun" at the very expensive cost of car owners. Alternatively it could be part of a larger movement in San Francisco against anyone associated with HiTech, which is largely being blamed for neighborhood gentrification and rent spikes in recent years." This sounds like a story that would catch the ears of veteran reporter Roland Hedley.

Comments

San Fran = the new Detroit

[bazmail]

Fuck San Francisco

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[schneidafunk]

Wow, it's like the exact opposite of what happened in Detroit. Prices are going up because business are moving in... Detroit declared bankruptcy and rent is dirt cheap there... so what part are you talking about - the vandalism?

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

One more piece of evidence that San Francisco needs to be nuked to a smoking crater.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

On May 16th we'll get one better...

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[lgw]

Detroit was once a very nice city. This exact sort of behavior made Detroit the smoking crater it is today. If you drive everyone with money away from your tax base, there won't be anything left. There was a deliberate effort in Detroit's case, and while it took a decade or more to drive out the middle class, and another couple decades to run out of money, it was inevitable from just a few years in.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

" This exact sort of behavior made Detroit the smoking crater it is today. " The decline of American manufacturing is felt in manufacturing centers.

You're no economist. You're no sociologist. You're no historian.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[alexander_686]

But what caused the decline in American manufacturing? I can point to certain self-destructive behaviors on both the management and labor side that drove the Detroit auto sector into the ground. Heck, I can even point to the city management and city unions for their fair share. Did they face some hard external challenges? Yes, they did – but the ultimate responsibility of their failure lays in Detroit.

And I can say this as a trained economist and historian. (armature status today, but still.)

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[hawguy]

One more piece of evidence that San Francisco needs to be nuked to a smoking crater.

Some people there apparently don't like Smart Cars (or maybe those who drive them), and that's a reason to nuke the city and start over? Would you rebuild SF to make it more friendly to Smart Cars?

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Ralph Wiggam]

The professional economics and historians point to globalization and automation as the major factors in Detroit's decline.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Hognoxious]

I can say this as a trained economist and historian. (armature status today, but still.)

You're an electrical engineer too?

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[MaWeiTao]

Of course San Francisco has decent weather and pleasant scenery going for it where Detroit does not. It helps make the residents a lot more tolerant of pervasive problems.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[lgw]

There hasn't been a decline in American manufacturing capacity, only in manufacturing jobs. That decline was felt in every older US city - what made Detroit so special? The history there is really quite clear.

The US middle class has nothing to do with manufacturing any more. Most US cities made the switch along with the overall US economy, welcoming those with modern middle class jobs. But Detroit chose not to do that: Detroit chose poorly.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[davester666]

4 cars in a fairly small radius tipped on one evening != a trend

it was a single group of probably young men, deciding to do something stupid.

Now if it continues to happen over a larger area, for some time, then it will become a trend.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

The professional economics and historians point to globalization and automation as the major factors in Detroit's decline.

Funny that Tennessee and South Carolina are still making cars.

Lots of cars.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Gordo_1]

> This exact sort of behavior made Detroit the smoking crater it is today.

Not really.

There may be some parallels, but Detroit was mostly a different situation. The Detroit lower classes did not actively try to push away those with money the way the SF leaches are trying to do. In Detroit, there were decades of major race relation problems that culminated in black riots in the downtown core. This scared the white middle-class who pretty much all picked up and moved to the suburbs willingly.

In SF, the complainers are a small group of mostly young, white folks who are bored, unemployed and looking for handouts to sustain their leach-like lifestyle.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[sumdumass]

They would fall into the globalization catagory - as in they are in part of the globe that detroit isn't in. Hell, ohio anf kentucky make a lot of cars and car parts to.

They underlaying story is political and social economics which economist and historians don't really want to point to out of fear of being labelef partisan.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[alexander_686]

No – those are challenges to Detroit. They might explain why Detroit is no longer the undisturbed, preeminent auto manufacturing center of the world. The rest of the world got better. Those are some of the external factors that I was eluding too. It does not explain the failure to evolve and adapt. The failure to respond is an internal factor that lies on the doorstep of Detroit and the Big 3 - these factors they did have control over.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[sumdumass]

20 some years ago when toyota and honda started becoming popular, a few of us in highschool would pick one end of those cars up and turn them sideways in thier psrking spots. We never caused any damage though. We sometimes would knock on the owners door and tell them a strong gust of wind did it.

It was all out of boredom and resentment about buying a foreign car at that time meant an american worker was without a job. Of course the imports solved that resentment issue by opening manufactoring plants in the US. Smartest thing they ever did if you ask me.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[russbutton]

Actually San Francisco is gaining a lot of people with money. Rents are beyond belief. This is the city where $4000 gets you a 1 bedroom apartment within walking distance of your tech job. Your basic $1 million home is 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, with a patch of cement in front some here call a lawn.

Certainly there is a sizeable left leaning population, but they are hardly unemployed sitting around demanding handouts. The politically active leftists are just as self-sufficient and delusional as the politically active right wingnuts. We do have both here in the San Francisco area.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Lumpy]

"But what caused the decline in American manufacturing?"

Unadulterated GREED.

Allowing rich assholes to move manufacturing offshore for free dramatically increases profit margins. The ones that stayed here, those are not assholes.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Lumpy]

Yup. Ask Gary Indiana how the 90's were to it. Gary is still a smoking crater of what used to be the largest industrial cities in america.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[lgw]

There are many places, gone now, that never had anything but heavy industry. But Detroit used to have more, much like e.g. Chicago. It turned itself into Gary Indiana.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[alexander_686]

So, the German and Japanese bosses who move manufacturing plants to the US are assholes? If that is true, since they are exploiting lower American wages for their unadulterated greed, how come they are not failing like American manufactures?

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of foreign cars.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[bkmoore]

What caused the decline of the big three was bad management, not necessarily GREED. First they were too slow to take foreign competition in the U.S. market seriously. Then later on, they were too focused on the American market to make the cars they needed to compete in foreign markets. Especially the ones where the cost of gas is higher, and the roads are smaller... which is most countries.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Ralph Wiggam]

Watch some video of what the insides of those factories look like. They employ a small fraction of the employees that worked in the old Detroit and Flint plants.

I watched a video about the Hyundia plant in Alabama. The chassis assembly line involves something like 30 people.

That would be the "automation" half of my comment.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're no linguist, yet we see your comments fill half of /.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[RivenAleem]

Exactly, I did this in SimCity and eventually a volcano erupted in what was otherwise a geologically stable area. And simulations don't lie.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[AaronW]

When I watched the Tesla assembly line in action I only saw one person working on the chassis doing some welding. Everything else was handled by robots.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[TheCarp]

> Now if it continues to happen over a larger area, for some time, then it will become a trend.

Yes but then it will be a normal occurrence and thus not news.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Rinikusu]

Quality products + outstanding value + not trying to fuck over their employees. All things the US car manufacturers seemed to delight in avoiding for a couple decades.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Sardaukar86]

I can say this as a trained economist and historian. (armature status today, but still.)

You're an electrical engineer too?

Heh, I read that as a portmanteau of 'armchair' and 'amateur' which I guess could stand in for 'armchair expert'.. a group unlikely to ever be a minority on the 'dot.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[CohibaVancouver]

20 some years ago when toyota and honda started becoming popular

You mean back in 1994?

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Sardaukar86]

20 some years ago when toyota and honda started becoming popular, a few of us in highschool would pick one end of those cars up and turn them sideways in thier psrking spots. We never caused any damage though.

I think that illustrates a problem I have with the view that things were just as crap in Socrates' time and that the older generations are always complaining about 'youth of today' issues. Please forgive the somewhat off-topic nature of this post but your comment struck me.

By and large I agree with the premise but there are certainly things going on now that never used to happen. Your example is perfect - a bit of harmless fun; property damage (or any harm) probably never entered your minds. Conversely, kids I hear about through the news now are in the spotlight because they're supplying alcohol and pot to nine-year-olds, burning down schools and dropping breeze blocks off motorway overpasses into the windscreens of passing cars.

I don't remember this stuff happening twenty years ago but the volume was clearly going up even then. My parents reckon this sort of thing simply didn't happen and is a modern phenomenon. There'll be those who talk about technology enabling bad behaviour and whilst that may be true, breeze blocks and alcohol, schools and boxes of matches have all been around a while now.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Immerman]

Don't forget automation. If the number of man-hours needed to make a car is a tiny fraction of what the competition requires, then what they're paid doesn't matter nearly as much to sale price.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[mikael]

Detroit suffered from something called "Devil's night" where certain groups of people attempted to set fire to as many homes, businesses and other property as well.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Immerman]

Or maybe they *do* like smart cars, and just find tipping them amusing. I've never heard it suggested that cow-tipping was motivated by any particular dislike for cows or farmers. And with a bit of alcohol (or asshole) in their systems a bunch of bemused people might not even consider the damage done. For that matter was any real damage done? The things have roll cages, and I don't recall seeing any broken headlights, etc. in the photos. I'm sure some people will cite the horrible expense of scratches in the paint, but in terms of mechanical damage all I can think of is possibly draining some of the fluids into places they shouldn't be. And I don't think a car has anything half so prone to orientation damage as a refrigerator - and that's easy enough to fix with a flush and recharge.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[mikael]

I've seen documentaries on the operation of modern car making plants. Car components are ordered automatically, they are then distributed to the correct area of the factory by automatic trolley systems. Robots lift up the parts, weld them in place. Windows are put in place by robot. Spray-painting is done by machine. Humans do things like final testing.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Lumpy]

Yes, if they closed up most of the plants in Germany and Japan? They absolutely are assholes.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Different situation. The Germans and Japanese plants in the US make products for the US. Apple used to make products in their US plant for the US market, now they outsource that work to Taiwanese company with a plant in China.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Gary and Detroit both died of the same cause. Too many niggers.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[hawguy]

Or maybe they *do* like smart cars, and just find tipping them amusing. I've never heard it suggested that cow-tipping was motivated by any particular dislike for cows or farmers. And with a bit of alcohol (or asshole) in their systems a bunch of bemused people might not even consider the damage done. For that matter was any real damage done? The things have roll cages, and I don't recall seeing any broken headlights, etc. in the photos. I'm sure some people will cite the horrible expense of scratches in the paint, but in terms of mechanical damage all I can think of is possibly draining some of the fluids into places they shouldn't be. And I don't think a car has anything half so prone to orientation damage as a refrigerator - and that's easy enough to fix with a flush and recharge.

Why do you discount the cost of the bodywork? Isn't that still damage? The roll cage isn't there to prevent damage, it's there to prevent the roof from being crushed in a rollover accident. Someone once keyed the side of my car and tore the driver's door handle off in an attempt to break in. It cost $4500 to replace the door and repaint that side of the car - the car itself was only worth around $7000, so it was close to being totaled. A smart car is smaller so the bodywork repairs might cost a bit less, but popping out or replacing the side body panels that were on the ground (sidewalks in SF are made of hard concrete in SF, not of fluffy pillows as they apparently are where you live) and repainting it is still going to be in the thousands. So each car owner is probably going to be out $500 - $1000 or whatever their insurance deductible is, plus whatever amount their insurance increases after they make a claim.

Besides, have drunks ever successfully tipped over a cow? There seems to be a lot of debate about whether or not cow tipping is a real thing, and little evidence that it's real: https://www.google.com/search?...

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Immerman]

Because I'm generally dismissive of people who obsess on form over function. If 5 minutes with a can of touch-up paint to protect against corrosion can render the car functionally equivalent to it's former self I'm not inclined to be very sympathetic to the person who moans about their car being "totaled". Not that the assholes who did it don't deserve to be chastised, but if you want to pay thousands of dollars to marginally increase the aesthetic appeal of a device specifically designed to operate in a harsh outdoor environment, that's your business.

Plus, I just remembered this, but IIRC rather than being painted the Smarts use dyed plastic body panels that are the same color throughout, so a scratch won't alter the color except perhaps by being a little more intense as the freshly-exposed material hasn't yet faded. Still visible if the light catches it just right, but even less of an issue than on a painted car.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Witness the SHEER INTELLIGENCE (not) of Sardaukar86 http://news.slashdot.org/comme... + http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Witness the SHEER INTELLIGENCE (not) of Sardaukar86 http://news.slashdot.org/comme... + http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Sardaukar86 foaming @ the mouth again? He forgot to take his meds,

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahahaha! Sardaukar86 should consider decaf.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[sumdumass]

About 6-8 years before that. Late 80s. I'm in my 40s

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[sumdumass]

Lol.. looks like you got a friend or teo following you around.

I did do some property damage- eggs a principle's house for suspending me over something i had nothing to do with. He called me into the office and said if i knew who did it, tell them thanks because the siding needed painted anyways and now his insurance would pay for it. So i superglued all the locks on his house. He left me alone.

But yes, i know what you mean about kids these days. A lot of the trouble i got into was from listening to stories my father's old school chims told me. Big mistake, he knew immediately who how and when. Yes, they seem to be starting earlier now but that could be because of 24 hour news and think of the children. What i mean is, it coild have been happening but we didn't hear about it.

Although, we did start a camp fire in the woods oneday and a neighbor kid was there who ended up burning down 3 or 4 acres of corn imitating us. He was 5 or 6 at the time. Lucky he didn't get hurt. Perhaps the kids are gettong exposed earlier and monkey see monkey do before they think of it on thier own.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Please excuse the off-topic nature of this post and mod accordingly;

To the AC-whom-I-suspect-is-APK - have you noticed anyone else on Slashdot stalking posters from one story to another so that they can post links back to comments in another story? No? That's because you are the only one that does.

Your desperate need for validation seems to be making you blind to observing the social norms of the community/environment you are in. I'm not talking about the on-topic/off-topic nature of your comments - that's a degree of awareness I'm not sure you'll ever get, given your obsessions, but the much simpler behaviours surrounding things like linking to other comment threads. It's not done. Anyone who was interested in those comments probably participated in that discussion.

The comments you link to aren't even pertinent to this discussion. All they do is attempt to fan your ego. Your behaviour is narcissistic and disruptive. Please stop. No-one is interested in whether you 'beat' someone in a discussion on another thread except you. _I'm_ not interested in whatever you were discussing in that other thread. _I'm_ objecting to you trying to drag whatever personal vendetta you've adopted for the moment into this one. People don't downmod you because they hate the subject of your posts (OK, not _everyone_ downmods you because of the subject) - much of your negative moderation is because you fail to observe the courtesies and norms of the group you are joining. To put it more simply, you're ignoring some strong social cues and coming across as a self-absorbed and self-obsessed jerk.

Please stop.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Antique Geekmeister]

They mostly do that to avoid the import duties, which are pure protectionism.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Been in downtown Boston or New York lately? Or London, Berlin, or Tokyo?

Get over the "rents are beyond belief" Population, and land prices among the wealthy, have been going up for decades.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[mjwx]

What caused the decline of the big three was bad management, not necessarily GREED.

Which is a lesson GM is still yet to learn.

The Holden (GM) and Ford factories in Australia are shutting down because they didn't bother looking at the market and adjusting their products. People are buying an entry level Merc or BMW (which are very overpriced here) over a top of the line Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore (which costs less). Did GM change to produce more luxury cars rather than overpowered boats, nope, they just kept their hand out for more (Australian) government money and when it stopped, they closed the factories (announced the closure for 2017). GM are doing this in Australia today, they'll be doing it in the US tomorrow... The day after that they'll be selling the individual brands off in a vain effort to avoid being put into administration.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[mjwx]

20 some years ago when toyota and honda started becoming popular, a few of us in highschool would pick one end of those cars up and turn them sideways in thier psrking spots. We never caused any damage though. We sometimes would knock on the owners door and tell them a strong gust of wind did it.

Yes,

In America you never really had the smaller cars like the Mini (The Morris/Austin marque, not that crappy BMW) or the Hillman Imp. these cars weight between 600 and 800 KG, so four schoolkids could lift it and place it between two trees for shits and giggles. Of course we never had the problem with Xenophobia that the Americans did.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Sardaukar86]

Heh, don't mind my one-man fan club there, he's just ticked off for being called out on his bad behaviour. Naturally the best rebuttal is.. more of the same behaviour. I hope he's not pissing people off with all the crapflooding he's aiming at me.

Taking matters into one's own hands is never the wisest course of action but I can't say I really take issue with your actions against the principal, hell at that age I'd have done the same myself.

That's a far cry from causing trouble and damaging stuff just because one is bored and from your post it doesn't sound like you're the type. Your campfire copycat was interesting and reminds me of a time when I was seven, walking through a small bush area with a couple of mates when we came across a small but rapidly growing fire in a clearing. We stumbled into it just seconds before a pair of adults materialised out of the trees from another direction (we hadn't even a chance to try scrubbing it out, we were stunned for about a half second as we were still looking at each other in the WTF stage). Naturally, the adults immediately began demanding answers.

Sure, we got the fire out almost instantly but it took a bit of fast talking to avoid being dragged out by the ear, including voluntarily turning out our pockets so it was clear we had no matches or lighters on us. I could well imagine we'd not even get the chance to protest our innocence had we been a trio of kids in 2014.

Never did figure out how that fire started..

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Witness the sheer intelligence (not of Sardaukar86" (foaming @ the mouth) http://news.slashdot.org/comme... + http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

tell fibs much? you started things with the anoncoward who posts your raging fits sardaukar86 from what I read there.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen, I'm telling you that's when you know Sardaukar86 forgot to take his meds interval again, hahahaha!

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

A Knee Grow

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[bickerdyke]

If that $4000-Bedroom is downton SF, your tech job in Mountain View or Cupertino is NOT within walking distance.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[russbutton]

If that $4000-Bedroom is downton SF, your tech job in Mountain View or Cupertino is NOT within walking distance.

The tech jobs have come to SF big time. Where have you been? South of Market is full of techies. I live in the East Bay and work at 3rd/Brannan. The whole area is tech companies. Rackspace, Zynga, Adobe, Facebook, Twitter, Macys.com and Ubisoft are just a few of the companies in the area. A ton of little startups like the one I'm with are there as well.

But yes, SF has a large number of people who work in Mountain View and Cupertino as well. Google, Apple and some of the other big companies provide buses for their people who work in SF. There are so many techies in SF that rents have gone waaaaay up and the working class folks are pissed because of it.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[russbutton]

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/...

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[david_thornley]

This being /. and a car discussion, it needs a software analogy.

Microsoft had an effective monopoly on desktop OSes and office suites, and raked in the money. Then they ran into the problem that times had changed, and they were reluctant to change with them, because the money was still coming in. (This is hard in any large business, particularly ones that don't do good long-range planning.) They found that people were using iOS and Android devices to do a lot of things that they'd previously used Windows machines for, and didn't pay attention to what people wanted and released Windows 8, which was viewed unfavorably by people who just wanted an economical and reliable car. Moreover, Microsoft wanted to use Office as a driver for Windows sales, and was very late to put it on iOS and Android, meaning that people found that they could readily use other word processing and spreadsheet and email software.

It was a long way down, but this led to the decline of Microsoft. As employment dropped, the city of Redmond was reluctant to deal with the downturn in Microsoft employee income, and kept overspending.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[david_thornley]

There were kids in my time that did cause property damage. Not many. Now, we have a (probably small) group of teenagers who went out car-tipping, which causes property damage. Unless this turns into some sort of trend, we have a small group of destructive youth, much like we had in my time.

Teenagers did supply alcohol to young people (dunno about pot back then) and started fires sometimes. (How many schools have been burned down?)

I'm not at all convinced that this is a real change. One thing the Internet has done is allowed people much greater visibility of things that happened half a continent away, and so you can't judge by news then and news now.

Re:San Fran = the new Detroit

[Some_Llama]

" I hear about through the news now are in the spotlight because they're supplying alcohol and pot to nine-year-olds, burning down schools and dropping breeze blocks off motorway overpasses into the windscreens of passing cars."

im 40 and when i was 15 this exact stuff was also just as popular.. this is a trend that has no limit of time, it is just the wild and notion of immortality that is part of youth, just the degree of damage and ways in which it is perpetrated that changes as technology allows for greater misdeeds to be done (e.g. dropping blocks off an overpass is akin to fireworks in a cobblestone street scaring horses, or tipping candles and burning down barns)

It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of things are trending if they only have to happen 1 time for that to be said.

It's not trending.

[Michael O-P]

This wouldn't even be an issue if the damn local news didn't report on it. 3 cars?! A night of drunken stupidity. Now it's going to be trending.

Re:It's not trending.

[LordLimecat]

If it were Tesla Motors, the NHTSA would be starting an investigation.

Re:It's not trending.

[O('_')O_Bush]

And Elon Musk would be whining about how the media was unfairly targeting Tesla, making misleading claims about a correlation between toppings and high speed crashes, claiming Teslas are not tipped more than any other car in the city, all the while designing titanium tipping resistant body panels as implicit acknowledgment of reality. And Slashdot would be a boiling kettle of fanboys defending Tesla and group thinking (par for the course).

I should say, I am biased, being a Tesla stockholder.

Re:It's not trending.

[jeffmflanagan]

Considering that they dressed up to hide their identities, I would not characterize this a night of drunken stupidity. It looks like a group of people with mental problems that decided to disguise themselves and vandalize cars.

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

It looks like a group of people with mental problems

Or, you know - teenagers.

The only "mental problem" necessary to find joy in such an activity as vandalizing cars is adolescence.

You did stupid shit when you were a kid, too. We all did.

Re:It's not trending.

[TemperedAlchemist]

Yeah, like stuff that put me in danger.

I didn't cause property damage to other people.

Re:It's not trending.

[jeffmflanagan]

Of course teenagers have mental problems. They go crazy during the transition from childhood to being an adult.

I never went out destroying people's cars, and I doubt that you did either.

Re:It's not trending.

[jittles]

This wouldn't even be an issue if the damn local news didn't report on it. 3 cars?! A night of drunken stupidity. Now it's going to be trending.

Eh when I was a wee lad we used to do the same thing with the Honda N600. Boys will be boys. The tricky part is sneaking out into the pasture without getting any dung on your shoes. And heaven help you if you tip the thing onto you!

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

So a hooded sweatshirt now constitutes a "disguise" serving no other purpose than to "hide their identities". George Zimmerman, is that you?

Re:It's not trending.

[The Grim Reefer]

No kidding. Back in the 80's 4-5 of us would pick up compact cars and move them onto the sidewalk out of drunken stupidity.

One of my friends had an MG back then. A couple of people lifted the rear end off the ground right before he was getting ready to drive off. While they were all laughing, he put the car in reverse and stepped on the gas. While laughing himslef, he asked them how long they thought they could hold it.

Re:It's not trending.

[slinches]

If it were Teslas being tipped, I think the NFL and/or the military would be the ones investigating. Those things weigh over two tons and have a very low CG, making them nearly impossible to roll over without some heavy duty lifting apparatus.

Re:It's not trending.

[fermion]

This was probably just a bunch of kids 'having fun.' I blame high schools and some colleges. High Schools are still focusing on bullying instead of teaching the kids that it is often assault or criminal intent. There are kids coming out school thinking that cursing out a stranger of threatening to hurt someone if they don't get their way is proper behavior. Likewise, some colleges still call borderline criminals acts 'hazing' or 'initiation', thus leading educated people to believe that getting drunk, committing crimes, and getting away with it makes everything ok.

Gentrification may also be an issue. When I was growing up one thing I noticed was the my friends who lived in more affluent or gated neighborhoods would talk about being taken home to their parents instead of arrested. They might be doing drugs, selling drugs, breaking into cars, whatever. We have seen a case where a teen has stolen beer, gotten drunk, and killed some people while driving, has gotten probation. The parents would pay reparations. So if a lot of wealthy parents are moving in, and protecting their kids, then those kids might be less motivated to not commit crime.

Re:It's not trending.

[MtHuurne]

Now that it's been in the news, it might become a trend...

Re:It's not trending.

[Altus]

Teenagers are usually idiots though, they don't usually have the foresight to disguise themselves.

Re:It's not trending.

[hondo77]

I never went out destroying people's cars, and I doubt that you did either.

Does smashing car windows count? Yeah, dumb stuff happened in the teen years.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. When I was young, in the 60s, kids were doing the same kind of thing to (original) VW bugs!

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

> making them nearly impossible to roll over without some heavy duty lifting apparatus.

or, you know, more people.

Re:It's not trending.

[bkmoore]

The NFL investigating mystery Teslas being tipped. Sounds like a plot for a South Park episode.

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

Of course teenagers have mental problems. They go crazy during the transition from childhood to being an adult.

Sorry, but it doesn't count as "crazy" if it's something natural that every single human being experiences. Technically speaking.

I've had to come to terms with that fact myself, in regards to American political extremism.

I never went out destroying people's cars, and I doubt that you did either.

After finding out that baloney can strip a cars paint, I may or may not have experimented with cutting letters out of the meat-stuff and using them to spell... interesting things... out on the body of a couple cop cars. In addition, there were those few occasions that someone else vandalized my vehicle, and I felt compelled to return the favor.

But no, never randomly messed with a person's car, as not having a lot growing up taught me to respect personal property. Of course, I'm intelligent enough to not extrapolate my own experiences as a teen as representative of the population as a whole.

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

Teenagers are usually idiots though, they don't usually have the foresight to disguise themselves.

Translation: "When I was a teenager doing stupid stuff, I lacked the foresight to disguise myself..."

Some of us wouldn't have made it to adulthood without a criminal record if that were a universal case.

Re:It's not trending.

[drerwk]

Seriously? Never wondered what it would feel like to hit a baseball across the street and through a window? Never wondered what the sound would be like and not thinking beyond the cool sound of breaking glass tossed the ball up and let swing. And then in unexpected joy realized you hit it perfectly, to hear the glorious sound of that window break only to have your stomach sink to the depths realizing that you broke a damn window?

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

This was probably just a bunch of kids 'having fun.' I blame high schools and some colleges. High Schools are still focusing on bullying instead of teaching the kids that it is often assault or criminal intent. There are kids coming out school thinking that cursing out a stranger of threatening to hurt someone if they don't get their way is proper behavior. Likewise, some colleges still call borderline criminals acts 'hazing' or 'initiation', thus leading educated people to believe that getting drunk, committing crimes, and getting away with it makes everything ok.

Don't give the parents a free pass - after all, education starts at home.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, they are brighter than you and would rather tip a car than to put themselves in danger.

Re:It's not trending.

[idontgno]

So, this explains why you were tipping those "Smarts".

What about your criminal confederates? More illegal thrill-seeking? Someone secretly paying to have the cars tipped? Voices in their heads? Hatred of tiny four-wheeled tin boxes arrogantly pretending to be cars?

The last is the reason I do it. I mean, would do it. Although I don't. Really.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

This wouldn't even be an issue if the damn local news didn't report on it. 3 cars?! A night of drunken stupidity. Now it's going to be trending.

Well we in Kansas Have Cow tipping, Why Not give San Fransico car tipping

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, back in the early '70s one of my high school teachers got one of the first "Honda cars" sold in the US (smaller than a Smart, look it up). It took four of us to carry it into one of the corridors of a nearby building. We left it facing across the corridor such that it couldn't be driven out without picking it up and reorienting it first.

Definitely stupid.

Re:It's not trending.

[Altus]

It may not be universal but that doesn't mean its not incredibly common.

Re:It's not trending.

[tlambert]

If it were Teslas being tipped, I think the NFL and/or the military would be the ones investigating. Those things weigh over two tons and have a very low CG, making them nearly impossible to roll over without some heavy duty lifting apparatus.

General "Thunderbolt" Ross would be investigating it, since he's brought in any time The Hulk might be involved...

Re:It's not trending.

[Lumpy]

The males of the species are completely insane until age 25.

I keep telling my daughter, "boys are not only incredibly stupid, but they are complete idiots until age 25... and then only SOME of them will grow out of it. Some will stay completely stupid for the rest of their lives."

I also let her know, because she is so pretty and is very well endowed on the chest, that boys will go extra stupid the closer she get's to them.

Re:It's not trending.

[steelfood]

It's called boredom. Kids who have nothing better to do, aren't going to sit on their hands. They go find something to do. It's usually destructive because destruction is so much easier.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you arguing a point or secretly asking for help for your sociopathy?

Re:It's not trending.

[Matheus]

My girlfriend at the time drove a Geo Prism. *2 people (big) could pick up and move that car... which they did... to a number of increasingly hilarious places :-)

I do object to the description of these cars being tipped on their side when the photos clearly show them being tipped on their ass which is WAY more funny!

Re:It's not trending.

[Matheus]

PS. I can't stop mis-reading the summary title as "Smart (car tipping)" instead of "(Smart car) tipping"... better read that way.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, another castrated male raising an entitled princess. Did you're wife tell you to say that?

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

It may not be universal but that doesn't mean its not incredibly common.

Probably more common today than it was when I was a teenager.

For starters, we didn't have Guy Fawkes masks. Those things have exploded in popularity the last few years.

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

It's usually destructive because destruction is so much easier.

And fun! I mean, c'mon, we have whole genre's of entertainment dedicated to destruction!

Growing up as farm kids, my buddies and I had the unfair advantage that when we wanted something to destroy, there was usually some old derelict out in a field somewhere we could blow to tiny bits.

Good times...

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't do stupid stuff. I am sick and tired of this modern concept of relieving people of responsibility until the magic ages of 18/21. The reason for many of the criminal problems we have in our society is that there is no expectation of responsibility. It is NOT OK to hurt others or their property no matter what age you are, and if you are over the age of 12 you should be held fully responsible for your actions.

Re:It's not trending.

[hendrips]

No. No I didn't. I knew of a quite a few incidents where classmates did things that were dangerous to themselves, or unintentionally caused damage. I can even think of a couple of times when classmates did some vandalism to someone they knew personally. But I can only think of one occasion when my classmates deliberately did some noticeable damage to strangers' property, and they got arrested for it.

Admittedly, my high school experience may not have been typical, since I went to a private school in a fairly high income area. But still, teenagers don't have to be hooligans.

Re:It's not trending.

[HornWumpus]

The most awesome school prank I ever saw involved a cow that had died giving birth, dead calf half out of it...truly epic. Private school, fairly high income area.

The teachers would have preferred hooligans.

Re:It's not trending.

[LordLimecat]

It'd probably attract crowds, as well, as I believe li-ion batteries tend to behave "interestingly" when strongly jostled.

Re:It's not trending.

[GTRacer]

You;ll have to help me out since I don't recall ever participating in vandalism-as-a-fun-pastime activities in my youth. What's the appeal of straight-up vandalism/destruction of other people's property? Like painting obscenities on a garage door or smashing mailboxes or breaking windows?

A 12-year-old friend of my nephews was busted recently for sneaking onto a country club's grounds and driving a handful of their golf carts into a lake. He took the last one for himself, possibly missing the fact it was labeled with the course's name in big letters, leading to his time in juvy.

I'd love to understand that mentality. Theft I understand. Revenge acts I understand. But simple chaos or waste? Clueless.

Re:It's not trending.

[Kjella]

If it were Teslas being tipped, I think the NFL and/or the military would be the ones investigating. Those things weigh over two tons and have a very low CG, making them nearly impossible to roll over without some heavy duty lifting apparatus.

If there was an NFL team nearby, I think they'd be the prime suspects instead....

Re:It's not trending.

[LoRdTAW]

He just enjoys feeling superior to others. I would just leave the post hanging and not reply. Takes the wind right out of their sails.

Re:It's not trending.

[TemperedAlchemist]

But first, just think about this for a second:

> Put self in danger: just potential to harm self. Police do not get involved unless danger to other people.

> Property damage: causes frustration and upsets other people. Causes police to get involved.

You can tell me again about how bright these kids are when they have a permanent felony on their records and a massive fine as well as maybe jail time.

Re:It's not trending.

[Immerman]

I've dropped my laptop plenty of times to no effect (well, at least as far as the battery is concerned :-( ). I believe it's puncturing that most li-ions tend to react enthusiastically to. Even if I'm wrong, if the jostling involved in rolling a semi-round car were enough to cause problems, then the things would be a powder-keg in a collision and would never be allowed on the street.

Re:It's not trending.

[Immerman]

Hear, hear.

There's plenty of places in the world, and times in our own history, where you are expected to start a family at age twelve, even if parents typically help out with the details for the first few years. Or if your parents had the resources and connections you might be part-way through an apprenticeship learning a trade that would let you earn a better life for yourself. With enough connections you might even have been trained to be an officer and be leading hardened soldiers or sailors into battle.

The problem is not that "teenagers are crazy", it's that modern society takes a bunch of young adults in their biological prime and expects them to sit on their hands for a decade without having anything meaningful to do, waiting until they go into biological decline to give them an opportunity to start accomplish something.

Re:It's not trending.

[Lumpy]

That right there is one of the retarded males. He was cast out by everyone else and he sits in his basement sulking.

Ladies, that type of male you must avoid at all costs. You can identify them by the smell of Parmesan cheese that wafts from them.

Re:It's not trending.

[amiga3D]

My dad would have put me in danger if I had been involved in something like tipping cars. Although I never had the freedom to run amok at night anyway.

Re:It's not trending.

[rk]

I smashed a couple windows on a vacant house in my neighborhood when I was 9. I did get caught, caught holy hell for it from my parents, and had to make restitution. It was 40 dollars at the time, but to a 9 year old in 1976, 5 dollars was a fortune. 40 was like grown-up money. I learned a good lesson on "other people's things".

I wished I could give you insight on that mentality, even though I was the one who did it. I remember doing it, I remember getting caught doing it, I remember working for the money to pay for it, but I have no recollection whatsoever on WHY I did it.

Re:It's not trending.

[HornWumpus]

Things were different before universal video. A disguise draws attention to you. Defeats the whole 'walk like you own the place' approach. You just can't do that with a Guy Fawkes mask on.

Just FLIR on police helicopters would have changed my teenage criminal exploits. I was actually dumb enough to change the pitchers mound into the pitchers crater at the same park 5 fourth of julys in a row. The last year, while waiting on the slow fuse to light the fast one a cop car prowled by. Then we saw the fast fuse spark, dropped the shovel in a bush and did the fast casual walk...fuse had gone out...would have made a large diamond that day if I had the foresight to shove coal up my butt. Decided to change locations after that.

We waited an hour, rigged a new fuse and all was well.

To say nothing of painting the balls on the bull statue in front of the board of trade hazard orange (didn't have any blue paint). Best part about that is when they finally media blasted the statue a month later, the balls where shinny brass (for a year or so). That one got a color print on the paper local section cover! Were they trying to encourage me?

Re:It's not trending.

[HornWumpus]

35 years ago, a friend did something similar to your nephew, but also 'farmed' many greens with the carts during a soaking rain. He got away with it. The greens damage was almost certainly much more then the pond and sand trap carts.

The reason we all thought it was funny is it was the 'Kansas City Country Club'. Which won't even let you be a guest unless your great, great, grandparents had tons of money and attended the right church (your great, great grandparents and you). Gave the rich fuckers some nice new obstacles; do you get a drop if your swing is obstructed by an overturned golf cart?

It was also the only country club in town where we couldn't just hutzpa our way into the pool. Which meant their security had challenged us.

Also we didn't quite understand the broken window fallacy. Figured landscaping companies had better uses for money.

Re:It's not trending.

[uninformedLuddite]

A bird bit one of my RC Heli batteries that I had carelessly left out. Smoke, flame and a shell shocked bird resulted. If I had not been home the place could have burnt to the ground. My bad. HiCap batteries I distrust.

Re:It's not trending.

[uninformedLuddite]

A bird bit one of my RC Heli batteries that I had carelessly left out. Smoke, flame and a shell shocked bird resulted. If I had not been home the place could have burnt to the ground. My bad. HiCap batteries I distrust. Note: posted twice as i accidentally replied to limecat when it was meant for you.

Re:It's not trending.

[uninformedLuddite]

After finding out that baloney can strip a cars paint, I may or may not have experimented with cutting letters out of the meat-stuff and using them to spell... interesting things... out on the body of a couple cop cars

One of my mates used to steal the entire rooftop siren/light assemblies and mount them on his wall like trophies.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's complete and utter bullshit. That smacks of when a sociopath does something sociopathy and somebody says, "oh boys will be boys". A normal person doesn't see any reason to tip over a car. The thought doesn't even enter into their train of thought. The fact you are seriously comparing "stupid shit done as a teenager" to FLIPPING OVER A FUCKING CAR just shows how far your head is up your own ass.

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

Too late. The Simpsons already did it.

(Well, it'll be true by the time you read this most likely.)

Re:It's not trending.

[Anonymous Coward]

You;ll have to help me out since I don't recall ever participating in vandalism-as-a-fun-pastime activities in my youth. What's the appeal of straight-up vandalism/destruction of other people's property? Like painting obscenities on a garage door or smashing mailboxes or breaking windows?

Impressing your friends and looking cool in front of them maybe. Doing some stuff even more crazy than the craziest stunt you've seen them pull. It can go a long way and you can end up doing very stupid things once you get started and everyone around you is playing along. Until something bad happens...

Re:It's not trending.

[ButchDeLoria]

Well that's hardly fair. The most stupid and destructive things I've done as an adolescent-to-young-adult male is accidentally wiping the wrong partition on a drive. Never felt even an urge to go break things for fun, or to drink until I puked, it never crossed my mind.

Re:It's not trending.

[CanHasDIY]

My girlfriend at the time drove a Geo Prism. *2 people (big) could pick up and move that car... which they did... to a number of increasingly hilarious places :-)

I had 2 of them (both 1992 models!), and yes, they were incredibly easy for 2 people to move around. I used to "impress" girls by deadlifting the ass end.

Also, apparently Toyota wasn't real big into key security in those days, as I recall one incident where I walked out of a store, unlocked and hopped in my Prism, started it, then realized as I was backing out, "holy shit, this isn't my car!" Someone had parked one the same year and color a few spaces down from mine, and the key worked without a hitch. mind blown.

GENTRIFICATION!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hooper: For years in this industry, whenever an African American character, hero or villain, was introduced - usually by white artists and writers - they got slapped with racist names that singled them out as Negroes. Now, my book, "White-Hating Coon," don't have none of that bullshit. The hero's name is Maleekwa, and he's descended from the black tribe that established the first society on the planet, while all you European motherfuckers were hiding out in caves and shit, all terrified of the sun. He's a strong role model that a young black reader can look up to. Cause I'm here to tell you, the chickens is coming home to roost, y'all. The black man's no longer gonna play the minstrel in the realm of comics and sci-fi fantasy. We keepin it real, and we gonna get respect by any means necessary.

        Holden: Ah, come on, that's a bunch of horse shit! Lando Calrissian was a black guy. You know, and he got to fly the Millennium Falcon, what's the matter with you?

        Hooper: Who said that?

        Holden: I did! Lando Calrissian is a strong role-model in the realm of science fiction/fantasy.

        Hooper: Fuck Lando Calrissian! Uncle-Tom nigger! Some white boy's always gotta bring up the "Holy Trilogy". But those movies is all about how the white man keeps the brotha man down, even in a galaxy far far away. Check this shit. You got cracker farm boy, Luke Skywalker, Nazi poster boy, blond hair, blue eyes. And then you got Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy, Nubian god!

        Banky: What's a "Nubian"?

        Hooper: Shut the fuck up! Now, Vader, he's a spirtiral brother, down with the Force and all that good shit. Then this cracker, Skywalker, gets his hands on a lightsaber and the boy decides he's gonna run the fucking universe; gets a whole klan of whites together and they go and bust up Vader's hood, the Death Star. Now, what the fuck do you call that?

        Banky: Intergalactic Civil War?

        Hooper: Gentrification! They gon' drive out the black element to make the galaxy quote, unquote, "safe for white folks." And Jedi is the most insulting installment! Because Vader's beautiful black visage is sullied when he pulls off his mask to reveal a feeble, crusty, old white man! They tryin' to tell us that deep inside we all wants to be white!

        Banky: Well isn't that true?

Re:GENTRIFICATION!

[Anonymous Coward]

Been a while since I saw Chasing Amy.

Re:GENTRIFICATION!

[Redmancometh]

Oh...I thought this was a quote from the boondocks or something..I love that show.

Re:GENTRIFICATION!

[Minwee]

Congratulations. You're one of today's lucky 10,000.

Slow news day on Slashdot...

[cbybear]

Sigh. Really?

Rreachtions

[DarkOx]

1) BAHAHAHA

2) Damn people are thoughtless jerks

3) Someones insurance rates are going up

Re:Rreachtions

[Jeremi]

3) Someones insurance rates are going up

Anyone know how much damage a Smart Car can be expected to suffer when tipped like this?

(I'd imagine some crush/scratch damage to whatever body panel(s) are now supporting the car's weight, plus my co-worker says that various fluids are likely to drip out into places they aren't supposed to be)

Re:Rreachtions

[Hognoxious]

Anyone know how much damage a Smart Car can be expected to suffer when tipped like this?

It's approximately nowhere near enough.

Re:Rreachtions

[HornWumpus]

Just as with cow tipping, it when you get them rolling down hills that the damage starts to pile up. One of the pictures appears to show just that when a balance job failed, took out a 'faggio' scooter.

tipping them on their sides is lame

[sribe]

But tipping them up on their ends, now THAT is hilarious!

Re:tipping them on their sides is lame

[CanHasDIY]

First link, second photo.

HA!

Re:tipping them on their sides is lame

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont care who you are thats funny right there...

merooooooo

Try thinking.

[Cammi]

Dear poster .. read your own post. At the expensive cost of the car owners? That means these assholes caused damage ... what? damage? Then yes, it is OBVIOUSLY a crime. A little thinking goes a long way.

Re:Try thinking.

[sexconker]

Dear poster .. read your own post. At the expensive cost of the car owners? That means these assholes caused damage ... what? damage? Then yes, it is OBVIOUSLY a crime.

A little thinking goes a long way.

A little reading does, too.

"Is it a crime of opportunity or another page in the current chapter of Anti-Tech movement in San Francisco?"
TFS states that it is a crime. It is asking if the crime was done just because some idiots were bored and saw some smart cars, or if it was done because some idiots specifically want to fuck with San Francisco techster types.

Re:Try thinking.

[Hognoxious]

People who drive Smarts are retards. They seem to think that because it's small the normal car rules don't apply so it doesn't matter if they block crosswalks, ignore lights, park on the sidewalk (at 90 degrees, so it doesn't count).

Or drive the wrong way down one-way streets.

Fuck the lot of 'em. The only thing wrong is that the owners aren't inside when they do it.

Re:Try thinking.

[gweilo8888]

Way to generalize. As it happens, I own a Smart (as well as another, larger vehicle). I own it in recognition of the fact that most of the time, my wife or I drive somewhere alone, and dragging along five seats and sheet metal weighing extra three quarters of a ton (yes, that's the difference between the curb weight of my Mazda6 wagon and my Smart convertible) simply doesn't make sense.

However, it is only *ever* parked in an actual parking space or on my own driveway, it has never been on a sidewalk, I never block crosswalks or even pull into them if there's somebody legitimately allowed to cross by the signal, I never ignore lights, and I have never driven the wrong way down a one-way street. In fact, I would be willing to place a bet that I am a more careful and law-abiding driver than you ever will be. And my wife doesn't do any of these things, either.

But in your world, because you've got a big, fat, imaginary bee in your bonnet, damaging random, innocent people's expensive vehicles is just fine? Well hopefully somebody keys your Hummer and pisses in the gas tank. You probably did something to deserve it, after all.

Re:Try thinking.

[HornWumpus]

I might buy a smart when they get older. But it will never be street-able after I'm done with it. Right now they cost too much for projecting (read: installing mouse).

Re:Try thinking.

[Hognoxious]

Your anecdote is about one owner. I see, dodge, go around and spit on dozens every week.

Correction to me previous post: there's a second thing they're doing wrong apart from the owners not being inside - they aren't torching the fuckers afterwards.

Re:Try thinking.

[gweilo8888]

Suuuure you do. And there are plenty of owners around here, but I've not seen any of them do *any* of the things you claim are common, so I'm going to say they're figments of your imagination.

Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[esten]

Considering a Smart Car is like 12k, gets good gas mileage, and is easy to street park in the city how in the world does this equal HiTech? HiTech workers definitely make enough to afford more spacious and expensive cars along with garage parking.

Is this another example of terrible Slashdot editorial comments distorting original story to "make news" as this alternative theory is not in the original source?
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/...

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Control-Z]

36MPG is not good gas mileage, especially for a tiny car like that. I think that's what is bothering the vandals.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[imbusy]

HiTech workers definitely make enough to afford more spacious and expensive cars along with garage parking.

As a HiTech worker I can only say - I can't afford shit with the current rental prices.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they seem like the most budget-y car available in the US. The issue is that people view the Smart Car as something green, and the only people thinking green are those HiTech people. I expect to see refurbished bikes tipped over next week.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[jellomizer]

I think it is an issue of applying a stereotype to the driver without any logical information behind it.
Oh look it is one of those Hippy Tech workers with their Green cars that makes them seem so pretentious and better then us.

I drive a Prius, and I get a lot of cars that seem to be more aggressive towards me (especially ones with Right leaning bumper stickers) then they were when I had the sporty convertible. They don't realize that I have a long drive and my main factor for the Car was price of fuel (I have a long drive), and not necessarily being green or making a statement.

Smart cars get more interest because they look even more out of place. Then a normal car, meaning that they must be that much more pretentious.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[BasilBrush]

That is bad. Odd really given that the European petrol version is 47mpg and the diesel version is 70mpg.

Do American's detune their cars or something?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, not that I disagree with your post, but smart cars aren't like 12k, they're surprisingly expensive for what you get. The electric is 12500 after rebates, but the gas powered start at 13500 for a base model and jump very quickly to over 17k. And their gas mileage is pretty poor considering what you're getting. In all fairness, I checked their webpage, and they don't actually list it, but I've heard it's like 37 or 38 mpg, which means a focus does just as well, if not a little better.

Sorry, I just really hate that car, it's only real up side is that you can pull into a parking space normally reserved for parallel parking. Something that can be overcome by learning how to drive, which would then mean you could parallel park. I'm sorry, but if you don't know how to do something as basic as parallel parking, you don't know how to drive.

*end rant*

I do however agree with you, nothing HiTech about that piece of garbage.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

A VW Jetta TDI gets far better MPG and is a lot more fun to drive. Similar with a Mazda 2.

There is one and only good thing about a SMART car. It is very easy to park. If someone lives in a place other than Paris, NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC, or other large metro area, this advantage is mitigated by the fact that the SMART car will bounce around like a top when struck in a wreck, possibly causing secondary collisions (which the owner/driver of the SMART car will be legally responsible for.)

Plus, with an ad campaign of:

"German Engineering
Swiss Innovation
American Nothing"

it is no wonder why the vehicle isn't appreciated on US shores.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[capedgirardeau]

My diesel Smart averages 55 mpg.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[HornWumpus]

Pius's are the modern Volvo. We know they aren't actually that slow, but the non-drivers that typically 'drive' them are so bad you just never get in line behind them.

Occasionally one surprises you, but mostly they just idle up to 25 mph in 45 zones.

Do you avoid the pius line when pulling up to a red light?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Might just be as simple as the vandals are too drunk to know the difference between high and low tech.... they might not even know that it's not a cow they're tipping.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Vulch]

No, they just give short measure in volumetric units.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

US gallons are smaller.
1 US gallon is 0.8 of an Imperial (UK) gallon.
47mpg * 0.8 = ~37mpg, ergo we're talking about the same numbers for Euro and US Smart cars.
Caught me out when I moved from the UK to the US.
On the other hand, paying $4 a gallon rather than [quick conversion litres->US gallons] ~$8.50 is most welcome.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Control-Z]

That's more like it. But the US guvmint apparently hates diesels.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate replying to myself but.. also consider, US gasoline is generally a lower octane rating than that sold in UK/Europe. In the UK the grades are 92/95/98 octane; in the US it seems to be 87/89/92 (native USians please correct me if I'm wrong) and adulterated with ethanol thanks to the corn lobby (it wouldn't surprise me to find that they put high fructose corn syrup in there too, the damn stuff's in everything else).

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[HornWumpus]

Smart cars are fine, if you put a hyabusa engine in it.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullshit. The only thing bothering the vandals is that a car they can pick up and move happens to be in their immediate vicinity.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[clarkkent09]

1. Car makers usually equip their cars with bigger engines and more features as standard for the US market. In case of Smart Car, the engine is tuned for faster acceleration instead of gas mileage.

2. UK uses imperial gallon which is bigger than US gallon so you have to be careful to compare like with like

3. Different testing standards. EU standards are surprisingly less strict than the US and allow manufacturers more room to cheat. Same car will show "considerably" better fuel economy when tested according to European standards - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Do American's detune their cars or something?

Well, for one thing, the standards are not the same.

And no, I don't mean that the miles and gallons are different(though they can be), but that the actual process of using the vehicle is different.

Basically, the driving profile can be widely different in figuring out how they're presenting MPG, it's not a simple matter of a vehicle on a flat course at a fixed speed.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Do American's detune their cars or something?

No, the passengers just weigh more.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. We shouldn't attempt to make anything easier at all because that would be stupid.

We should all drive stretched double-wide double-decker buses with double-chained extra-long oversized livestock trailers just to prove that we can drive. Because that's manly.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

"Than". Look it up, faggot.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding. I'd have a lot more respect for the drivers of the stupid looking things if the cars themselves got 70-80 mpg.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[mrchaotica]

That's still absolute shit economy relative to its size, given that a VW Golf/Jetta TDI (which, being an American, is about the only Diesel I know to compare to) is only about 5 mpg lower.

Actual good fuel economy is a 15-year-old Honda Insight at 70 mpg (US), or, for a non-hybrid, a 22-year-old Geo Metro XFi at 50 mpg (US). Smart should be fucking ashamed of itself!

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[mk1004]

That's pretty much what I was thinking. A Corolla gets 30/40 mpg, is just shy of $17K starting, and carries at least 4 people. I just don't see anyone buying a Smart car unless they are trying to be trendy.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's a requirement. Try shipping your efficient vehicle to the US. They'll require you to make modifications to your vehicle that will lower your fuel economy.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be because the UK uses a different metric for measuring octaine ratings. North america uses Anti-Knock Index (RON+MON)/2 and Europe uses just RON. This difference can account for a difference of 4-10 points.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Also your fuel also has up to 10% ethanol just like the states.

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/new-e10-fuel-will-cost-uk-motorists/1229022

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Grandparent poster here - Thank you, I have learned something new today.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[EvanED]

Sorry, I just really hate that car, it's only real up side is that you can pull into a parking space normally reserved for parallel parking. Something that can be overcome by learning how to drive, which would then mean you could parallel park.

How did you get so close to the benefit and still miss it? It's not that you can pull into a parallel spot, it's that you can fit into parallel spots that are just flat out too small for larger cars. Learning to drive won't change fact that, say, a 12 foot space will comfortably hold a Smart car (8-9ft long) but not, say, a Civic (15 feet).

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

A car's manufacture is almost as heavy on carbon emissions as the entire lifetime fuel emissions.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2010/sep/23/carbon-footprint-new-car

From mining the raw materials, transportating and various levels of assembly, each stage of manufacture requires energy and increases carbon emissions. Although each car (and product) should have it's manufacture examined, roughly speaking, the more car, the more emissions.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[fak3r]

Is this another example of terrible Slashdot editorial comments distorting original story to "make news" as this alternative theory is not in the original source?

You must be new here.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[drinkypoo]

Actual good fuel economy is a 15-year-old Honda Insight at 70 mpg (US), or, for a non-hybrid, a 22-year-old Geo Metro XFi at 50 mpg (US). Smart should be fucking ashamed of itself!

the insight was cool, but battery etc.

The Geo Metro was a beercan deathtrap.

A VW Lupo, which is basically a more modern Geo Metro made by VAG (did they stop making Lupos?) will make 70 MPG with its cute little diesel, if you baby it. But it's a miserable thing to have to do. And they didn't sell them in the USA because if you get hit by an Expedition or whatever, you're dead, baby.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

But the California hates diesels.

Fixed that for you.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[lgw]

In the US, cars inevitably make a statement about you. Sorry, it's not just about functionality. You chose the overlap of hipster, hippie, and really slow driver, so you should only expect some people to be unhappy with you.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh woe is me! I am going to go no further than to forge anecdotal evidence that those racist right-wingers HATE me because I drive a Prius. Because, of course, right-wingers all have McCain stickers on their Corvettes. Also, I haven't bothered talking to these people that I have made up in my mind, but they're a bunch of conservative bigots. I am saving the earth by driving a hybrid!
 
Yeah, THAT sounds plausible.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

... (it wouldn't surprise me to find that they put high fructose corn syrup in there too, the damn stuff's in everything else).

It's what cars crave!

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

It's probably a typo.. shit eater.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

Different rating system scores cars lower in the US.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[geekoid]

I thought you were wrong, but apparently the price ahs dropped a lot in the last decade or so. They were close to 40K.

I bet they are still horrible to drive.

Interesting, there website say 12,400 fro an electric, but when you actually find a price, it's 25G

http://www.smartusa.com/models...
http://en.ta64.smart.com/is-bi...

So the Swatch/Mecedes ART piece is still way over priced for what you get.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[geekoid]

Maybe when you move up from 1st tier help desk?
WTF does HI-Tech worker really mean?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[hawguy]

That's pretty much what I was thinking. A Corolla gets 30/40 mpg, is just shy of $17K starting, and carries at least 4 people. I just don't see anyone buying a Smart car unless they are trying to be trendy.

Or they are parking it in SF where street parking is scarce and driving a car that's 6 feet shorter (106" versus 182") than a Corolla is a huge advantage. Parking a SmartCar means that a lot of the narrow spaces between driveways that used to be too narrow for a car can now fit your SmartCar. It's small enough to park perpendicular to the curb, but state and local laws prohibit it.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Jeremy Erwin]

Some years back, the fuel efficiency tests were changed.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[macbeth66]

Something green? Please! Green is a fine idea. The Smart Car is more like shit. Have you seen these things on the Interstate? In the rain?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

I'm sure it makes some sort of statement but why would anyone care that someone else drives a SmartCar instead of Civic or a Corolla? It's like getting mad at somebody for choosing a plaid shirt over one with stripes.

I mostly ride my bike to work but our family does have two cars which couldn't be more different from each other. One's a 12 year old Saturn SL2 and the other is 7 year old Acura MDX. We bought them both used and they have different purposes. And yes at some level they both appeal to us or we would't have bought them.

The one I choose to drive is based on what or who I need to haul and how far I'm driving. Or maybe just what mood I'm in. Am I a different person with different values when I'm driving the MDX and not the Saturn? Of course not.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

The Geo Metro is an interesting example of why the "smart" car is crap. Do you know how the Metro achieved it's 58 MPG rating? (Yes, 58, not 50!) It had a 3-cylinder engine. Don't bother asking the 0-60 time, it was measured in years. It had a top speed somewhere right around its MPG rating, too. That was considered "OK" because the US federal government had decided "fuck it, what's good for overcrowded, smog-covered shitholes on the east coast is good for empty roads elsewhere" and had limited the speed limit nationwide to a pathetic 55 MPH. A 3-cylinder engine strapped to a roller-skate could achieve that easily, and with ridiculous mileage numbers. Thus, the Metro. And this was long before the emissions standards put a beatdown on the manufacturers, so GM (the pathetic excuse for a car company who sold the Metro in the US) had no problem selling them by the shovel-load. Once CAFE hit, the Metro was gone. GM kept the Geo brand around a while longer to sell a couple of the other models, but they went away too, eventually.

Also, is there really a car company named "VAG"? Do they make pussy cars?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[drerwk]

That has always bother me too. I'd much rather get an old 2CV - 48 mpg, 4 people seated in comfort, front wheel drive. Not a single thing better than a 60 year old French marvel of engineering.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Volkswagen-Audi Group, nigger.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[sexconker]

A VW Jetta TDI gets far better MPG and is a lot more fun to drive. Similar with a Mazda 2.

There is one and only good thing about a SMART car. It is very easy to park. If someone lives in a place other than Paris, NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC, or other large metro area, this advantage is mitigated by the fact that the SMART car will bounce around like a top when struck in a wreck, possibly causing secondary collisions (which the owner/driver of the SMART car will be legally responsible for.)

Plus, with an ad campaign of:

"German Engineering
Swiss Innovation
American Nothing"

it is no wonder why the vehicle isn't appreciated on US shores.

I thought you added the "American Nothing" bit yourself.
Nope. It's legit. http://i.imgur.com/2GJFYQD.jpg
Looks like they brought the hate on themselves.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[lgw]

I was replying to the guy driving a Prius, specifically.

The SF Smart Car thing is just part of the rage against tech workers.

It's like getting mad at somebody for choosing a plaid shirt over one with stripes.

There are still people who won't do business with you if you choose a brown shirt. Statements matter.

As Oscar Wilde once said "only a shallow person doesn't judge on first appearances". People behave in predicable ways. We can lament that, but not change it. Any observant person knows that first appearances matter; they make your basic statement of what subculture you belong to. Choose wisely.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[vjoel]

Is this another example of terrible Slashdot editorial comments distorting original story to "make news" as this alternative theory is not in the original source?

Did you miss the Roland Hedley reference? Wooooooooosh.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Fishchip]

I'm sorry you're so cranky about having a hard time getting the McCain sticker off of your Corvette.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Hognoxious]

I drive a Prius

After Smarts, those are the worst driven cars on the road.

I nearly got run over by a woman in one - she ran a red light. I whacked the car as she went past and she stopped and yelled at me. She claimed the red light she'd jumped only applied to bikes. Now that might be technically true - it was a one-way street with a contraflow bike lane. But it's electric, see?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Garridan]

Stop buying boutique shit, dumbass. Get it from the garden store like the rest of us. It only costs a few bucks a yard.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Says the fucktard with three errors in his sig.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

Any reasonable person should know that their first impression of somebody else has a very good chance of being wrong. Sorry, I'm not going to live my life worrying over what someone else might correctly or incorrectly assume about me based on my vehicle choice.

Note: It also possible that SmartCars are getting tipped over because they can be easily tipped over. Perhaps it has nothing in particular to do with high tech workers.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[khellendros1984]

Some states provide 85 octane gas/petrol as their regular unleaded (apparently due to outdated studies of the effects of altitude on the combustion of fuel. US octane numbers are measured in AKI (Anti-Knock Index), though. Europe uses RON, which is a different scale. Add 4 or 5 to the US AKI numbers, and you've got an approximate value of how the gas would be rated in Europe.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[lgw]

" I'm not going to live my life worrying over what someone else might correctly or incorrectly assume about me based on my vehicle choice."

You drive a Saturn, right? That's what a Saturn says about you. Acura is the closest thing left now that Saturn's gone. Didn't you mention your other car was an Acura? Don't worry, you're sending the signals you want to send based on your choice of cars.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[sjbe]

That's still absolute shit economy relative to its size, given that a VW Golf/Jetta TDI (which, being an American, is about the only Diesel I know to compare to) is only about 5 mpg lower.

There finally are now a few decent diesel options. A Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel with 420 ft/lbs of torque gets 30mpg highway. The 2014 BMW 3 series diesel gets 32city/45hwy MPG. The Ram 1500 ecodiesel gets about 28mpg highway and can tow 9000lbs. (same engine as the Grand Cherokee)

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[tlambert]

That is bad. Odd really given that the European petrol version is 47mpg and the diesel version is 70mpg.

Do American's detune their cars or something?

No, we detune our gasoline.

If we didn't detune our gasoline, the infinitesimal percentage of cars that were manufactured before 1981 so they don't have oxygen sensors would pollute a tiny amount more than they already do.

Also, Chevron wouldn't have a monopoly on reformulated gasoline which complies with California law, and you'd be able to import it from out of state refineries instead, without paying the "Chevron Tax".

Either of these outcomes would be "disastrous".

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[kyrsjo]

Just to be clear - it's the same as 6.5 L/100 km rigth?

Who's brilliant idea was it to have two slightly different gallons, or to use a different gallon than the one already invented?

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

" I'm not going to live my life worrying over what someone else might correctly or incorrectly assume about me based on my vehicle choice."

You drive a Saturn, right? That's what a Saturn says about you. Acura is the closest thing left now that Saturn's gone. Didn't you mention your other car was an Acura? Don't worry, you're sending the signals you want to send based on your choice of cars.

Yeah, if you can no longer get a compact economy car from Saturn, your next logical choice is a mid sized luxury SUV from Acura. I don't know why I didn't see how obvious that was before. ;)

Sure, I'm sending signals, but can you really make an accurate judgement about me if all you knew is that I drove one of those cars? I doubt it.

Since you like quotes from old authors, I'll give you another: "Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

Since you like quotes from old authors, I'll give you another: "Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

In other words, you really don't know anything about the person in the car in front of you unless you've met them. And even then maybe not. (apologies for replying to myself)

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[CanHasDIY]

The SF Smart Car thing is just part of the rage against tech workers.

Maybe the reporting on "the SF Smart Car thing" is part of it, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the actual flipping of the cars has a lot more to do with Occam's Razor than some conspiracy against tech workers.

Of course, by "Occam's Razor" I of course refer to the phenomena of "bored teenagers + lightweight car == vandalism."

My generation did the same crap to Geo Metros and Eagle Summits back in my day.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[CanHasDIY]

Smart cars are fine, if you put a hyabusa engine in it.

... Only because F1 engines are so damn hard to source.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[imbusy]

I'm a data analyst/developer at a fast growing company so your argument is invalid.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[gweilo8888]

36mpg is also not what you get in a Smart car, driven properly. Last time I measured mileage and fuel consumption over 5 or 6 tanks of gas, I averaged more like 45-47mpg in mine, and I don't even try that hard.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[gweilo8888]

If there's one thing a 2CV does not provide, it is comfort.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[lgw]

I just find it funny that you ended up with cars that send accurate signals about yourself. (And, yes, odd though it is, Acura is the new Saturn, signals-wise).

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[mrchaotica]

Yep, both the Diesel 3-series (which has been around for several years now actually) and the Ram Ecodiesel are pretty high on my list of vehicles to get sooner or later (when I have kids and when I exceed the capabilities of my Ford Ranger, respectively). I just hope they're available with a manual transmission...

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

I suppose if you can make stuff up about people based on the car they drive and assume them to be true, it's easy to make up other stuff to fit your world view as well.

However, if you want facts, here's what a study from an automobile marketing and data company found:

Based on data from January through August 2009, nearly three-quarters of the defectors (74.7 percent) purchased an import car or truck, while 25.3 percent bought a Ford or Chrysler. Top non-GM models purchased by former Saturn owners so far this year are the Toyota Corolla (716 units), Honda Accord (631 units), Honda CR-V (608) and the Toyota Camry (605). The top-selling domestic vehicles to defected Saturn owners are the Ford Fusion (510), the Ford Escape (472) and the Ford Focus (472).

2009 was the year Saturn was discontinued if I remember right

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[HornWumpus]

Your on one.

Acura is the new Saturn? All Acuras? Old ones? NSXs?

What signal do car collectors send? Are we schizo? Am I a low riding beaner (classic led sled car with fins) one day, a redneck (4x4 truck with 'tiny dick' tires) the next, hooning ricer fool (turbo AWD rice burner) the third and a dirtbag (beater Civic) the last? A lowrider, dirtbag, redneck street racer?

What will adding a S2000 do to my personality. I'd hate it if it turned me gay. \Sarc

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Safety's on that list too - the 2CV might as well be a motorcycle for all the crash protection it provides.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Macrat]

36MPG is not good gas mileage, especially for a tiny car like that. I think that's what is bothering the vandals.

My 2009 model only gets 26-30MPG.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

A 70 mpg 2-seat Insight is shit. Try 122 mpg.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe when you move up from 1st tier help desk? WTF does HI-Tech worker really mean?

Probably someone who works at a company listed as a High-Tech Stock, asshole.

Way to make an ass of yourself you condescending prick.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Immerman]

As I understand it though octane rating has minimal relation to any power- or energy-related concept. It's simply a measure of the maximum pressure the vapor can experience before spontaneous combustion. Most modern engines use lower compression, so higher octane is irrelevant. The primary concern is with older engines which relied on higher compression, where a low-octane fuel will cause premature combustion in the cylinders, aka "knocking"

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[HornWumpus]

Have you seen the price of bat guano? Talk about boutique shit.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[lgw]

I'm not saying it's a deep insight into who you are, I'm saying it's the cultural signal you send. Just like if you wear a suit one day and a dyed Mohawk and facial piercings the next, people will treat you differently. Expect it. Send the signals you want to send.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[lgw]

Doesn't change the fact that Saturn was the "I don't believe in cars as a status symbol" car before, and Acura is the new brand that sends the same signal.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[HornWumpus]

The hayabusa swap is nicely kitted. Couldn't get it CA street legal if you were buying drinks at the DMV.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[unimacs]

Doesn't change the fact that Saturn was the "I don't believe in cars as a status symbol" car before, and Acura is the new brand that sends the same signal.

You could make the same argument for lots of automobile brands, not just Acura or Saturn. So why doesn't Acura even show up on the list of most popular brands past Saturn owners decided to buy?

Besides, we got the Acura to replace a Mazda, not another Saturn. At the time we weren't even looking for another vehicle and if we were an MDX wouldn't have even been on the radar. A friend of my wife's wanted to get something smaller and gave us an incredible deal on it.

A Prius, a SmartCar, Mazda Miata, or just a plain old pickup could all be in our future. We'd have reasons for choosing one over the other at any given time. And those reasons would reflect our values and our circumstances. But you wouldn't be able to tell just from the vehicle what those reasons and values were. I'd be the same person no matter which I was driving and likely very much different from another person driving the same thing.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[sjbe]

Diesel 3-series (which has been around for several years now actually)

Unfortunately the recent version is quite a bit less powerful than the 335d from a few years ago which got worse gas mileage but had over 400ft/lbs of torque. I'd happily buy a used 335d if I could find a used one for a decent price. I test drove one 3-4 years ago and it was awesome.

Ram Ecodiesel are pretty high on my list of vehicles to get sooner or later

Probably the truck I'll get to replace my Ridgeline. I can't believe it's taken so long to get that engine in a pickup. I'm more surprised it isn't available in a Jeep Wrangler.

I just hope they're available with a manual transmission...

Highly unlikely I think for the pickup. Very probable for the BMW though.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[mrchaotica]

Unfortunately the recent version is quite a bit less powerful than the 335d from a few years ago which got worse gas mileage but had over 400ft/lbs of torque.

Ah, I didn't know this one was different. Good to know -- the old one is the one I would want too!

Highly unlikely I think for the pickup.

That's too bad, since the 2500 Cummins still had a manual available (the only one left in a full-size truck) the last time I checked. If there isn't one available in this "ecodiesel," and since it would be an occasional-use-for-truckish-tasks-only thing anyway, I might just go for a Cummins...

What they really need is to put a damn diesel in the Chevy Colorado, or better yet, bring back an actual small truck like the '80s Nissan P'up (one of those with a diesel got over 30 MPG)!

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[mjwx]

Just to be clear - it's the same as 6.5 L/100 km rigth?

Who's brilliant idea was it to have two slightly different gallons, or to use a different gallon than the one already invented?

Well you see the Imperial system was first defined in the Weights and Measures Act of 1824, some 50 years after the US had their revolution, so it's a misnomer to say that the US is still on the Imperial system, the fact of the matter is they aren't even that advanced, they're still on a pre-imperial system.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[kyrsjo]

So one could say that the UK had that "brilliant" idea of introducing a secound unit of the same name and dimensions but different sizes :/

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[mjwx]

So one could say that the UK had that "brilliant" idea of introducing a secound unit of the same name and dimensions but different sizes :/

or you could say that the British had the brilliant idea of replacing several measurements called "gallon" with a single measurement called gallon... Which is what actually happened.

Prior to that, a gallon had different measurements depending on where you were or what you were measuring.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[sjbe]

That's too bad, since the 2500 Cummins still had a manual available (the only one left in a full-size truck) the last time I checked.

Out of curiosity, why do you want a manual for a truck? Current automatic transmissions have 8-10 gears (the Ram 1500 has 8) and you certainly wouldn't want to row that many gears. I like manual transmissions too but only in cars like a BMW that are fun to drive. I like my truck fine but I wouldn't describe it as fun to drive.

Nissan is supposedly coming out with a diesel for their Titan pickup (heavy duty I think) in the next year or so. Might be worth investigating. If the Ram 1500 ecodiesel is a success (off to a good start) I'd be surprised if Ford and Chevy didn't follow suit.

Actually what I'd *really* like to see is a diesel-electric hybrid for trucks. Think about it. If you want gobs of torque there is nothing better than electric motors. That's why they use them on locomotives. For a truck it makes perfect sense to treat it like a small scale locomotive if you are hauling stuff. You'd be able to get better fuel economy AND better hauling power. I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen semis with that sort of powertrain yet. Would make a lot of sense I would think.

Re:Smart Cars = HiTech ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting point... I guess my car makes the statement that I'm fucking poor...

Really?

[3.5 stripes]

It takes more than two people to tip over a smart? Guess they must be little girly men.

Re:Really?

[CanHasDIY]

It takes more than two people to tip over a smart? Guess they must be little girly men.

What do they weigh compared to a vintage VW Bug?

One person could flip an old Bug by himself, granted he was sober enough to pick up the right end.

Re:Really?

[HornWumpus]

Go out and actually try it. Make sure you've got health insurance cause you'll hurt yourself. Bugs are lite, but not that lite.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it is San Francisco.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

In my time I've lift-parked a bug with just one friend. I would imagine tipping it would be easier, since you don't need to lift half its weight...

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well we are talking about Frisco here.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

A VW Beetle has a mass of about 800 kg and thus weighs about 8000 N. The average person can lift about 400 N, 1000 N if well-trained. Many people won't ever be able to lift that though, even if they train as hard as they can.
Let's be charitable and say that the Beetle's centre of mass is about one third of the way from the rear wheel to the front fender; you'd need about 3000 N to flip it.
Maybe you could try to tip it by rhythmically pushing against it, creating a resonance, but no, you can't flip an unmodified Beetle.

Re:Really?

[HornWumpus]

I've lifted a few bugs off of their motors (which where on the ground at the time). That takes two big, young guys. The other end is a little lighter then the back, sans motor.

I assume you moved one end at a time.

Re:Really?

[CanHasDIY]

Back when I was a strapping young lad, abusing tiny cars was just a thing to do. Bugs were great to that end, as the rear-engine setup make them nice and tail heavy.

Now that I've christened my 30th year, not to mention not being in nearly as good of shape as I was at 18, I'm gonna have to pass.

Re:Really?

[CanHasDIY]

Ever pick one up by the front and roll it around like a wheel-barrow?

That one's a hoot.

Re:Really?

[Macrat]

It takes more than two people to tip over a smart? Guess they must be little girly men.

A Smart Car is 1,6120 pounds.

Re:Really?

[HornWumpus]

You'll hurt yourself. That's where we started this conversation.

Sand rail, maybe. Super stripped baja with no reinforcements and no gas in the tank, just maybe, if you're a power lifter.

Get four fat guys to stand on the rear bumper, then you might be able to do the wheel barrow thing.

Re:Really?

[uninformedLuddite]

It actually took three and they were fueled by anger adrenaline hating someone called Brendan.

Re:Really?

[uninformedLuddite]

It's been a a long time but what is it 6 bolts to drop the motor?

Re:Really?

[HornWumpus]

4 bolts, 2 wires, a fuel line, a throttle cable and two heater box cables. Plus a shitload of sheet metal with screws covered in road tar, if you haven't bajaed the engine cover.

We were pretty slow, we never broke a 15 minute motor swap.

Re:Really?

[uninformedLuddite]

Don't forget the two bolts on the thing at the very back of the car (I have forgotten its name) that allows the engine to rock.

Re:Really?

[HornWumpus]

You're remembering things wrong...I went and looked at my bug powered Fiat. The motors and transmission move together on the transmission mounts.

BTW actual, historical fascist were of the left. Accept it.

Re:Really?

[uninformedLuddite]

I was actually talking about my Type 3(I should have clarified I apologise). There are some images in this thread that show the two bolts.

BTW actual, historical fascist were of the left. Accept it.

You know who you are talking to right? My name, my signature, all is related. You are the first to comment. I will change it shortly as I have been rumbled. I have had that sig for years and I was hoping that one day someone would recognise the quote.

Do you really live in a dodecahedron? Hunting you and playing sstrek are fond memories

So 2001

[onproton]

This actually was a fad in Europe for a while - of course it moved to San Francisco.

Re:So 2001

[iamgnat]

Technically that fad was pushing them into rivers/canals.

Re:So 2001

[Anonymous Coward]

A Smart weighs three quarters of a ton. A lot for a "little" car

San Francisco: crazy again

[JohnFen]

While I understand the social frustrations -- they aren't unique to SF and where I live there are very similar issues around gentrification -- the reactions I've been hearing about in that area are rapidly reaching the "crazy" level. Sounds like it's time to avoid San Francisco.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[clarkkent09]

Gentrification to me means turning filthy, crime ridden ghettos into clean and safe neighborhoods. I haven't heard any reasonable argument against it that doesn't include hidden racism or prejudice against poor people being morons who like living in dirt.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[interkin3tic]

Three cars tipped over is "crazy" and a reason to avoid a place? No one was in or under the cars, you realize. There were no deaths or injuries.

You go ahead and stay in your padded cave if that scares you.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[interkin3tic]

Property taxes and rent rising pushes out renters who have lived there a long time. People like their neighbors and work to establish a safe community only to be priced out of it BECAUSE they made it safe. They end up having to move to a more distant neighborhood which is once again unsafe. Now they have to commute further to work and have less money from the move. Moving to a new apartment generally means paying higher rent in cities if you keep the same level of nice neighborhood, so it's likely a step down.

I mean, it sounds reasonable to me. Not compelling enough for me to not move to a gentrifying area (which I have before and don't feel particularly guilty about), but I understand why it upsets some people legitimately. I do think a lot of it is simply entitlement or making excuses for envy. Obviously tipping over someone's car isn't a rational way of trying to keep prices for long-term residents down: people who have already moved in are just going to hire more cops which will increase taxes which will hasten the poorer residents being priced out. No, those idiots were either simply troublemakers or at best angry because they didn't have a nice shiny smartcar while their neighbors did.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[AlKaMo]

The inherent problem is that renters tend to be forced out of the gentrified neighborhood, so it tends to not so much clean up ghettos as relocate them to an area with cheaper (or still-cheap) housing costs.
--
While this is still a net gain for the city, it tends to be distressing to the individuals that are forced out. Sure, rationally it doesn't make sense for a renter to feel entitled to the home they're renting. On the other hand, it's hard not to develop an emotional attachment to the place you've been living for 20 or 30 years,despite what it says on the deed.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[mk1004]

Or maybe gentrification runs out the poor, hard working population along with the poor, criminal riff-raff.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[geekoid]

We have crime. The building are run down, we need work.
OK, here comes business
WHAT? they're bringing in new business, reducing crime., and bringing in jobs?
the EVIL gentrifying BASTARDS!

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[Ichijo]

Property taxes and rent rising pushes out renters who have lived there a long time.

That's balanced by increased job opportunities that keep people in the neighborhood longer. Is there any evidence that gentrification creates a net exodus of low-income residents?

In any case, this is one reason why property taxes should be proportional to the property's burden on the surrounding infrastructure, not the property's value.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[Pope]

Until California repeals Proposition 13, the whole state will be a financial basket case.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[Jeremi]

Three cars tipped over is "crazy" and a reason to avoid a place?

No; but this certainly moves the crazy-needle over a bit.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[bluefoxlucid]

Gentrification works by moving filthy poor people out and bringing in clean upper-middle-class money. It improves a city, rather than the people there.

Aside, I need like, ten or so fucking signatures on my petition for it to get listed. It'll probably be listed for 1 day, then deleted because I need 100,000 signatures in 1 month to get a white house response. Will somebody fucking sign it so we don't have to worry about this kind of shit anymore?

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[tlambert]

Gentrification to me means turning filthy, crime ridden ghettos into clean and safe neighborhoods. I haven't heard any reasonable argument against it that doesn't include hidden racism or prejudice against poor people being morons who like living in dirt.

How about "Think of the filthy, crime ridden ghetto children!"?

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[tlambert]

Until California repeals Proposition 13, the whole state will be a financial basket case.

Prop 13 serves a useful purpose for non-commercial properties.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[tlambert]

Or maybe gentrification runs out the poor, hard working population along with the poor, criminal riff-raff.

I'm open for any suggestions you happen to have on running out the poor, criminal riff-raff, while leaving the poor, hard working population in place.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[NotSanguine]

Gentrification to me means turning poor neighborhoods into unaffordable ones for rich white people. Which displaces people who have few resources.. I haven't heard any reasonable argument that I am not a racist scumbag trying to justify my small-mindedness.

There. FTFY. And you're welcome.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[CanHasDIY]

Or maybe gentrification runs out the poor, hard working population along with the poor, criminal riff-raff.

I'm open for any suggestions you happen to have on running out the poor, criminal riff-raff, while leaving the poor, hard working population in place.

Make education not suck, and fund good, useful after school programs.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[AaronW]

You do know that Prop 13 also applies to commercial properties as well.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[mk1004]

Considering how well our local governments, LEO, and Congress have been at doing that, I suppose any suggestions by you or me couldn't make things worse.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[drinkypoo]

People like their neighbors and work to establish a safe community only to be priced out of it BECAUSE they made it safe. They end up having to move to a more distant neighborhood which is once again unsafe.

This is why you don't put your effort into places where you're just renting. You live there for a while, make some money, and then move someplace else and buy something. Then when civilization turns up there as you age and raises both property values and cost of living, you sell it and move to whatever calcified location seems ideal for retirement.

The whole notion that everyone should get to live in one place your whole life is not a realistic one as long as we continue to assign dollar amounts to semi-arbitrarily shaped pieces of ground.

Re:San Francisco: crazy again

[Anonymous Coward]

Property taxes and rent rising pushes out renters who have lived there a long time.

Except that this isn't happening in SF due to Prop 13 and rent control.

double take..

[Connie_Lingus]

reading the headline, i thought the story was going to be about people dropping change and dollar bills on smart cars as a way to, i dunno, show their support for eco-friendliness?

 

yes

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the car that's high-tech, it's people working in high-tech companies (and pizza deliveries) who drive them. It's typical of them. They like to:
- eat organic food
- drive smart cars
- wear google glasses to post other people's private lives online
- suck cocks
- vote democrate
- etc

Re: yes

[Anonymous Coward]

So basically a bunch of tree-hugging hippie faggots.

Re: yes

[Talderas]

Aging liberal hippy douche

Moo

[CanHasDIY]

In other news, the local cattle herds have never been less paranoid!

Re:Moo

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, the local cattle herds have never been less paranoid!

Hey, the women might be a little chunky, but calling them cattle is going too far!

Tipping over a smart car to fight the man

[InsultsByThePound]

Is like beating up a blind guy to fight against discrimination against the handicapped. It's fun.

Re:Tipping over a smart car to fight the man

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's more like yodeling to fight the man -- in other words, utterly nonsensical.

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Russia, smart cars tip you!

Put these in the car

[Elder Entropist]

Owners in the area need to put these in their cars:

http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resiz...

Re:Put these in the car

[fak3r]

Best post on the topic I've seen.

Used to be with it, but they changed what "it" is

[Cajun Hell]

the new crime

Vandalism and pranks are not new. And this particular form (tipping/inverting/moving_to_weird_places any unusually small/light car) is something I've heard of going back to at least as early as the 1960s. Your grandparents were doing this when they were kids (assuming your grandparents were assholes).

Next on slashdot: someone spraypaints the screen on someone else's phone! It's all part of the new Anti-Tech Movement!! You are totally a square and working for The Man and thinking-inside-the-box and not-cool, if you aren't doing this yet. You probably don't even have an onion on your belt, lamer. Get with it, man!

It's not the Midwest

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a shortage of cattle in San Francisco. These might be the only alternative.

Re:It's not the Midwest

[idontgno]

Wait until the aliens start mutilating Smart cars. And abducting Smart car farmers.

Re:It's not the Midwest

[slinches]

Interestingly, a Smart Fortwo and a large steer are about the same size and weight.

Re:It's not the Midwest

[tlambert]

Wait until the aliens start mutilating Smart cars. And abducting Smart car farmers.

And Ford Probe'ing them?

Re:It's not the Midwest

[Anonymous Coward]

My god, you're on to something!

am i back in the 90's ?

[Anonymous Coward]

in Europe its pretty much common place that drunk idiots flip smart cars because its easy and when your drunk it seems pretty funny.

4 people can actually lift one pretty easy.

Synergy

[sjames]

I've seen discussions of having electric cars play an audio track of engine noise to reduce accidents with pedestrians.

And now, when the kids tip it, it will go "MooOOOOOOooo"

Third worlders?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if it's third worlders... jealous of white man's technology...

Oh, wait... that was 'racist' of me, wasn't it. Pointing out the truth - that non-whites hate their own kind, and will do anything to live around 'racists' - sorry - whites...

Re:Third worlders?

[lgw]

I wonder if it's third worlders... jealous of white man's technology...

Oh, wait... that was 'racist' of me, wasn't it. Pointing out the truth - that non-whites hate their own kind, and will do anything to live around 'racists' - sorry - whites...

Well, being factually incorrect in racial claims does make you appear racist. The "third world immigrants" in Silly Valley are upper middle class, for the most part. There's a reason that the average income of Hindus is far and away the highest of any religion in America (well into 6 figures).

Re:Third worlders?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a reason that the average income of Hindus is far and away the highest of any religion in America (well into 6 figures).

The religion with the richest adherents wins!

never understood

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never understood why people would actually buy those things. They aren't particularly fuel efficient, their crash test ratings are far from stellar, they don't have a lot of space & cost as much as a full sized car. Maybe if they were insanely fuel efficient or cheap it might make sense, but they aren't.

Re:never understood

[EvanED]

They aren't particularly fuel efficient, their crash test ratings are far from stellar, they don't have a lot of space & cost as much as a full sized car.

I think several points are off. For instance, if I look at new cars on cars.com around me, the cheapest fit is $14,370. If I check out the cheapest Civic, it's $18,980. That's 25% less than an already cheap car. The Smart gets 34/38 mpg; the Civic gets 28/36. The Civic is a manual, the Smart an automatic transmission. (At least in the US, many people would consider a manual a deal-killer.) The Civic is bigger, but it's also far from big, and how big would you really need for a daily commute for instance? And the smaller size has a big benefit for people who do a lot of street parking: imagine being able to fit places where almost no one else can, or having a much easier time getting into tight spots.

The thing is that no car is going to be perfect -- there are always compromises in terms of cost, size, performance, safety, etc. But I think the Smart car fills a niche that would be pretty useful. I was just looking at cars earlier today because there's a hopefully-very-small chance I'll need a new one like, now, and if all I did was drive around town to and from work and errands and stuff, I'd seriously consider getting one.

Re:never understood

[mrchaotica]

Stop comparing to Civics; they're overpriced too.

Also, the Smart "automatic" a)isn't really; it's an "automated manual" with a clutch, and b) is absolutely terrible compared to either a torque-converter automatic or a manually-operated clutch.

I was just looking at cars earlier today because there's a hopefully-very-small chance I'll need a new one like, now, and if all I did was drive around town to and from work and errands and stuff, I'd seriously consider getting one.

Do yourself a favor and buy a used Hyundai Accent instead. Trust me, it's a better car. (Even a 10-year-old Accent is a better car than a brand new Smart.) Or buy a Mazda, or a Ford, or, Hell, even a Scion. There is no small car worse than a Smart.

Re:never understood

[EvanED]

Stop comparing to Civics; they're overpriced too.

Eh, it's my current car so it's what I jumped to. My point was mostly that "it's as expensive as a full sized car" is only true for maybe the absolute lowest end of full-sized cars.

Do yourself a favor and buy a used Hyundai Accent instead. Trust me, it's a better car. (Even a 10-year-old Accent is a better car than a brand new Smart.) Or buy a Mazda, or a Ford, or, Hell, even a Scion. There is no small car worse than a Smart.

My main attraction to the Smart is to make parallel parking in tight spots easy; it's substantially better at that than basically anything else. But it's off the table anyway because I'm only going to have one car, and a substantial portion of my driving is on long trips and I'm not doing that in a Smart. But if I was considering a second car, that's where I'm willing to compromise on many of the things that the Smart isn't as good at.

Re:never understood

[Impish]

Also, the Smart "automatic" a)isn't really; it's an "automated manual" with a clutch, and b) is absolutely terrible compared to either a torque-converter automatic or a manually-operated clutch.

I think the OP meant 'automatic' as in the way most people think of automatics: there is no clutch pedal for you to work. I own a smart car and yes, there is some roughness from a dead stop. I avoid it by accelerating slowly, my wife avoids it by accelerating quickly. Still, no manual clutch = automatic. You can switch it over and force gear changes, but not much call for that while driving around town.

I was just looking at cars earlier today because there's a hopefully-very-small chance I'll need a new one like, now, and if all I did was drive around town to and from work and errands and stuff, I'd seriously consider getting one.

Do yourself a favor and buy a used Hyundai Accent instead. Trust me, it's a better car. (Even a 10-year-old Accent is a better car than a brand new Smart.) Or buy a Mazda, or a Ford, or, Hell, even a Scion. There is no small car worse than a Smart.

I think you are allowing an irrational hatred of the car mar your thought patterns, did somebody in a Smart car cut you off this morning?

Part of the reason I bought a Smart car was for the looks (I'm a sucker that way). It makes children smile and starts up conversations in parking lots, it doesn't look like anything else and I like that. Looks aside there are some very nice things in my Smart car that came standard (and I bought it over five years ago). Automatic lights? Yup. Automatic windshield wipers (front and rear)? Yup. Heated seats? Yup.

Stating that a 10 year old Hyundi Accent is a better option that an (implied) new Smart car shows you are veering in to hyperbole. Care to try the comparison again? There are better arguments for why a Smart car is not a good idea, you just didn't come up with many.

Re:never understood

[mrchaotica]

I think the OP meant 'automatic' as in the way most people think of automatics: there is no clutch pedal for you to work. I own a smart car and yes, there is some roughness from a dead stop. I avoid it by accelerating slowly, my wife avoids it by accelerating quickly. Still, no manual clutch = automatic. You can switch it over and force gear changes, but not much call for that while driving around town.

Right, which is why I explained the difference between a torque-converter automatic and the Smart's computer-controlled clutch "automatic."

I think you are allowing an irrational hatred of the car mar your thought patterns, did somebody in a Smart car cut you off this morning?

No, I feel this way because I test drove one, and then looked at the price and MPG figures. I was genuinely considering getting one until then.

It's really the transmission, even more so than the price/MPG, that lets the car down. I'm used to driving a manual and when I want to shift I want to shift NOW, not hit the paddle, wait a couple of seconds, and then shift. It was completely intolerable.

By the way: it's not that I think that computer-controlled clutch transmissions are inherently bad, it's that the one in the Smart sucks. VW's DSG is much better. (Not good enough that I'd pick it over a manual, mind you, but better.)

Part of the reason I bought a Smart car was for the looks (I'm a sucker that way). It makes children smile and starts up conversations in parking lots, it doesn't look like anything else and I like that.

That's fine, but there are other cars that have similar charisma yet don't suck at being cars the way the Smart does. Examples include the VW Beetle and Mini Cooper.

Stating that a 10 year old Hyundi Accent is a better option that an (implied) new Smart car shows you are veering in to hyperbole.

On the contrary, I actually did own a 2003 Hyundai Accent GT at the time I test drove a Smart, and the Accent really was a much better car. (I'd still have it today if a tree hadn't fallen on two years ago.)

Re:never understood

[Anonymous Coward]

how big would you really need for a daily commute for instance?

Big enough to fit a week or more's load of groceries in the trunk, but I guess "Smart" Car owners don't cook anyway.

Re:never understood

[Anonymous Coward]

I see your assertation and raise you a Scion iQ.

Re:never understood

[mrchaotica]

It's better than the Smart, but only marginally so: 1 more MPG, CVT instead of robo-manual is a wash (why can't I just have a damn third pedal?!), 2 extra seats that are surprisingly usable (my wife can almost sit behind me in one), better styling (IMO) but the engine is in the front (which is less interesting than the rear-engined Smart)... but several other choices still blow them both out of the water overall.

Re:never understood

[mjwx]

Stop comparing to Civics; they're overpriced too.

Also, the Smart "automatic" a)isn't really; it's an "automated manual" with a clutch, and b) is absolutely terrible compared to either a torque-converter automatic or a manually-operated clutch.

An "automated manual" is still an automatic gearbox as it's a robotised clutch controlled by a computer, gear changes are still computerised (even if directed by the driver, you're asking the computer to change gear for you). Same as Dual Clutch Tranny's, they're automatics as well. A manual has a direct link between the gear shifter and the gear selector, torque converters, automated manuals and DCT's have the shifters connected to a computer (they send an electronic signal these days, drive-by-wire) and the computer decides when to change gear making them automatic transmissions.

Finally, I consider all automatics to be terrible, your best auto is barely compatible to the worst manual.

Re:never understood

[mrchaotica]

You're preaching to the choir, buddy.

Re:never understood

[EvanED]

Big enough to fit a week or more's load of groceries in the trunk, but I guess "Smart" Car owners don't cook anyway.

1) Based entirely on stereotypes I'd guess Smart car owners would be more likely to cook than the general population, but that's beside the point.

2) Lots of people are shopping for 1. When I go to the grocery store, my shopping results almost always go into the passenger seat in the front. I can't even remember the last grocery trip I went on where I bought enough stuff that it wouldn't fit into the trunk.

2) But OK, suppose you have a family large enough that you can't put a grocery load in the trunk. Why does it all have to go into the trunk? You can spill over to the passenger seat as well. Do you really usually shop with someone else? (Maybe you do. My impression is that most of the time only one person goes on grocery trips.)

4) Most of the country owns more than one car. So even if you do have an actual need for a larger car, that still doesn't mean that a Smart car is a bad purchase as long as you don't get two.

I'm not saying the Smart car is good or worth the money. I haven't driven one. But the objections based on size largely boggle my mind. How often do you see people go "I don't see why anyone would buy a motorcycle; there's so little cargo room!"

To clarify, we need to quit SF Bashing.

[nimbius]

Is it a crime of opportunity or another page in the current chapter of Anti-Tech movement in San Francisco?

No. neither. Interesting_crime + San_francisco doesnt mean its some primal scream against the jackboot of some technological ruling class. Thats just hysterical conjecture. Police cannot be everywhere at every minute of the day. Given this fact, crimes will occur. These can vary from bicycle theft to parking structure arson and even home invasion. each is unique and cannot be condensed meaningfully into some hot button issue used to drive click revenue. san francisco has, as most every other major american metropolitan area, numerous significant problems and challenges and while some of them predicate violent crime and property damage, it is irresponsible to try to categorize them into one particular problem. We are, as humans, prone to sampling bias by our wanton nature of categorization and observation of false patterns.

this story would make more sense if it were Prius or Tesla arson, or intentional sabotage of major transportation systems, but the size and weight of vehicles like the mini, yaris, smart, beetle, and a host of other subcompacts simply lend themselves to hooliganism. My crown victoria on the other hand with two-ton curb weight and police spotlight on the other hand, does not. in turn it also does nothing for the environment at 14 miles per gallon and 15 years of age.
disclaimer: ive never lived in san francisco, i just hope they can roll with the punches.

Re:To clarify, we need to quit SF Bashing.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people are confrontational and just need a cause to validate their need for destruction. If it wasn't gentrification it would be something else...

In Connecticut we call it COW tipping

[Anonymous Coward]

These hoodlums had to take something pure and natural and pollute it.

Cows are natures gift and God made them the way they are so that man can garner amusement in tipping them over as they stand in a field.

But tipping a smart car is an abomination of the purity of Cow Tipping. Shame on them!

Re:In Connecticut we call it COW tipping

[Anonymous Coward]

spoken like a true city kid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

I think the meaning is less profound

[maliqua]

Speaking as someone who when they first saw a smart car said to themselves "I wonder if i run out into the road and shoulder check it if it would tip over" I don't think the vandals in question are doing this to make a statement. I think its most likely that they had a similar thought combined it with youthful enthusiasm and the great decision making power that only a group of teenagers can have.

Re:I think the meaning is less profound

[93 Escort Wagon]

Yup. According to the linked story, we're talking about four cars, all in the same area, all tipped over in the same night. It's probably one group of rowdy young guys.

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[The Grim Reefer]

obligatory XKCD

Re:Used to be with it, but they changed what "it"

[HornWumpus]

We didn't tip them. We put them between poles so the had to do a 300 point turn to get out.

We also came back and removed it when the teacher went inside to call a tow truck.

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't even click the link, but I bet it's the one shows two data points and a straight line extrapolating some nonsense to a woman. BWHAHAHAHAHAH! You're SO FUCKING CLEVER!!!!! Did you draw that?!?! Do you think you're funny and original?!?!?! Do you think you're a faggoty hipster doofus shithead?

LOLOLOL!!!! I've laughed so hard! I'm so impressed by your tenacity and originality, that I'm taking the rest of the day off and buying a lottery ticket. Today is THE DAY!!!!

Here's some:

[Anonymous Coward]

Excessive gentrification raises housing costs to the point where only wealthy professionals
can afford to live there. There are several disadvantages to this: first, everyone works,
no stay-at-home moms, so there are no eyes on the street during the days. Second,
anyone without a professional-level income can't stay in the neighborhood. Like my
kids music teacher.

Part of your assumption is that gentrification starts with filthy crime-ridden gettoes. It
can also destroy stable, safe, lower- and middle-class neighborhoods. Like mine.

Re:Here's some:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, I lived in a neighborhood with mainly military retirees. Then property values shot through the roof as out of staters who couldn't make it in their own neck of the woods started coming for the jobs.

Now, there is no sense of community. Someone has a house that gets burned down, neighbors will flock over and ask if the owner is selling, hoping for a "fire sale" price. You then get the kids of these people who start thinking it is funny to put out bowls of car antifreeze to watch the local cats die, or the older houses that have through-the-door mailboxes wind up with a garden hose inserted and the water on. You get people with electric cars plugged into your outside light. You get neighbors who move property survey markers so they can extend their fence over, and if they succeed, they gain that property through adverse possession.

Some consider gentrification meaning getting rid of "da 'hood". No. In reality, it replaces homes on decent lots with McMansions, condos, and apartments on already traffic-choked roads. Long-term, it means that the area WILL turn into a bad neighborhood when there is an economic downturn.

Re:Here's some:

[Anonymous Coward]

Blame your neighbors. How dare they sell their houses for as much as people are willing to pay!

Re:Here's some:

[Anonymous Coward]

Also forgetting that those lower-class people still need someplace to live, gentrification has the side-effect of turning other parts of the city into ghettos over time.

N-word, please

[ThatsNotPudding]

Gentrification to me means turning filthy, crime ridden ghettos [FULL OF POOR MINORITIES]
into clean and safe neighborhoods [FULL OF RICH WHITE PEOPLE].

Re:N-word, please

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the racist remark.

Re:N-word, please

[Anonymous Coward]

Or in other words: a desirable place to live.

Re:N-word, please

[Anonymous Coward]

Poor people (any color) will always produce bad neighborhoods because a considerable portion of those are poor because of personal defects rather than some "missed opportunity" society didn't give them.

They will buy what they can afford, which is depreciated housing stock in blighted areas. They can't improve those areas so the areas deteriorate. When the price is right, investors can buy and cleanse those depreciated areas.

It's part of the NATURAL life-cycle of communities and should be made use of rather than resisted. Even Harlem is coming back, thought some Blacks (who displaced the Jews lest we forget) aren't thrilled with the change. The folks who rode out the bad times and cash out are doing what other groups did through history.

My father made a very nice profit selling his home in North Jersey. He couldn't afford to stay retired there, but dat phat cash bought him a home and made a fine retirement nest egg in Virginia.

Some strange political calculus

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

I don't fully get it. But in my alumni mailing list, the die-hard Republicans seem to be rooting for and seem to be very satisfied by the friction between the masses of San Francisco and the tech employees. Some strange logic like, tech employees are largely Democratic, and the masses of CA are also Democratic, so any fall out between them would benefit the Republicans. They keep posting links to excessive pay for tech tycoons and links to these kinds of news stories. Seem to be under the impression this will turn tech workers into Republicans.

Re:Some strange political calculus

[CanHasDIY]

... in my [favored "grassroots" propaganda organization], the die-hard ["other" group of political extremists] seem to be rooting for and seem to be very satisfied by the friction between the masses of [Group A] and [Group B].

Universalized that for ya.

Re:Some strange political calculus

[HornWumpus]

Let me help you get it: Do you know how you feel when the libertarian republicans fight with the church republicans? It's like that.

There are plenty of Republican tech workers, they just don't live in SF.

As the divide grows...

[stox]

This will become a more common occurrence. Why do you think the rich want to spend so much more on Police and the Military?

Hey now

[Anonymous Coward]

I was busy memorizing pi to the hundredth decimal place and trying to get enough wishes to get my fighter to 18/00 strength. We all did.

It could be something else as well

[houghi]

For all I jknow, it could be God punishing the gay community, or insurance companies so they can raise their prices.

Submission is less newsworthy than foxnews

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[omnichad]

Is this an appeal to the mods? Because you're certainly not winning favor yet. Perhaps you're just mad that you didn't think to link to that great comic?

Easy Mater!

[Dareth]

Easy Mater! Don't go giving them kids ideas about messing with cows. Unlike hipsters, they will fight back.

I blame Mentos

[BenSchuarmer]

Mentos must be stopped.

Re:I blame Mentos

[CanHasDIY]

Damn you, Dave Grohl!!!

Provocative ideas

[Anonymous Coward]

How can we remove these filthy and criminal people from our new neighborhood, clarkkent09? Let's build a startup together..

We can call it finalsolutionr.

The poor should not want a class war!

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an unfortunate reality about class wars of poor against rich: The rich have the power. If the poor pick the fight like this, the rich will respond with laws and ordinances that will basically accelerate the demographic shifts that the poor are protesting. Face it, the rich have won San Francisco. For a generation or two, it will be their playground. (They will get old, make the place lame, two where no interesting young people will want to move there, and the thing will reset. But it will take a while.) It's just unwise to pick fights with the rich. It will only accelerate your removal (to the speed of a police car).

The rich do not own smart cars

[strangeattraction]

I feel sorry for the poor person who is simply trying to reduce her carbon foot print, live a physically smaller foot print and have economical transportation in a large city. The people tipping car a simply juvenile regardless of their age.

Re:The rich do not own smart cars

[sethstorm]

If they were maximizing for that, they'd be using public transit.

Re:The rich do not own smart cars

[david_thornley]

Public transit simply doesn't work in many cases in the US. My wife could get to work by bus, taking maybe an extra hour a day. I can't. Even in a city where it works fairly well, some people have transportation needs that the transit system doesn't address well.

Re:The rich do not own smart cars

[RockDoctor]

Public transit simply doesn't work in many cases in the US.

That is a problem that US citizens need to address. But it seems that they don't have the communal balls, and would prefer to keep car manufacturing and selling industries active.

It may be short but it has a weight problem.

[jensend]

Our old Chevy Sprint- a 5 passenger hatchback- weighed < 1500lb and got 44mpg city / 53 hwy. For the sake of "safety" the Smart Fortwo- a dinky two-passenger car with little cargo room- weighs 2250 lb and gets 34 city/ 38 hwy. The engineer giveth, and the safety inspector taketh away.

Safety involves tradeoffs, and people should be able to make their own informed decisions about their own safety and the risks they will tolerate. Safety regulations should be based on the damage your car does to other cars (and to pedestrians and cyclists), since you shouldn't get to decide what risks other people face.

Failing to admit that safety involves tradeoffs, and regulating cars only based on their own occupants' safety, has led to a curb weight arms race. The easy way to be safer, if you ignore the tradeoffs, is to make your car heavier compared to the average; but when the average weight rises everyone is less safe (especially pedestrians and cyclists), all the advances in engines and materials are outweighed, and MPGs stay stagnant.

Re:It may be short but it has a weight problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nonsense, you just mandate more MPGs. While indirectly mandating more weight. Pretty soon cars won't be able to accelerate into a slight headwind. The SUV of the future? A stagecoach.

Re:Used to be with it, but they changed what "it"

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, did your music teacher have a Datsun roadster too?

Trending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Trending? What, are you some kind of fucking douche?

Positive design spin

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's a bright opportunity to re-design the Smart car and make it able to sit in their butts by design, thus minimizing the parking space needed.

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[kyrsjo]

Considering the XKCD link gained a +5 insigthfull, maybe it was The Grim Reefer posting as AC?

Conspiracies, conspiracies everywhere!

3 cars plus one techie w/a persecution complex

[Anonymous Coward]

Were these even electric cars?

Re:3 cars plus one techie w/a persecution complex

[ponraul]

No. They're cars with petrol engines that get about 6 l/100km. Merces-Benz owns Smart and sells Smart Cars in the US market to offset all the E- and M- class cars which get around 9 l/100km in the CAFE. Personally, I'd feel safer driving in a Trabant 601 than one of these pieces of shit.

Re:Used to be with it, but they changed what "it"

[phorm]

I've heard of going back to at least as early as the 1960s

I've heard of pranks that involved *moving* cars (heck, the football team relocated a teacher's lada), but not something that resulted in intentional damage to somebody's vehicle, and certainly not en-masse.

Re:Used to be with it, but they changed what "it"

[Anonymous Coward]

Grandparents? Try Great-Great Grandparents did things like this with horses, buggies, etc.

Interesting tidbit, relayed by one older than myself: Horses will walk up stairs pretty easily, but hate going down. Which means it's easy to lead he horse into the principal's 2nd story office, and a real PITA for said principal to get said horse out.

There are Tech Solutions

[Crypto Cavedweller]

Didn't the South Africans come up with an anti-carjacking system a couple years ago that put a flamethrower under the car to roast the ankles of anyone threatening you from outside the car? Seems like Smart needs another security system option added to anti-theft. 'Tipping passes 5 degrees, engage flamethrower.'

Re:There are Tech Solutions

[HornWumpus]

In SF? I'd pay to see that.

With a yakety sax soundtrack.

Like that didn't happen anywhere else...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's plenty of cities that have been screwed when a major industry moves out. Pittsburgh and steel, LA and aerospace... Yet today, those places (and most of America's cities) are (once again) rising while Detroit is en route to be the first city in modern civilization's history to be voluntarily abandoned.

So, no, it's not just Somebody Else's Fault that Detroit is a disaster zone. But denying that Detroit is partly culpable in the mess is certainly keeping it one...

Bring back MagnaVolt from RoboCop

[ping.kwong]

This is how you take care of the problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Bring back MagnaVolt from RoboCop

[sethstorm]

No thanks, but I'd rather take an updated 6000SUX. It wouldn't be targeted for tipping anytime soon ;)

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[Sardaukar86]

Considering the XKCD link gained a +5 insigthfull, maybe it was The Grim Reefer posting as AC?

Nobody with a handle like that can be all bad though. :P

Re:Way to generalize

[DocSavage64109]

Same thing happens to motorcycle riders. Just because the obnoxious riders stand out, all riders tend to get a bad rap.

Re:driven properly

[DocSavage64109]

Interesting. I must drive the opposite of properly, as I get 24 mpg (mostly city) in my 09 manual corolla, and got the same in my old 96 integra gsr - both with 1.8 liter engines. It still beats the 11 mpg I got in my old Durango though.

Vince Covered This in "Pulp Fiction"

[Crypto Cavedweller]

Only one kind of person messes with another person's car.

One more reason to have an American-sized car.

[sethstorm]

If someone is going to tip a nearly-two-ton car, they certainly won't be doing it quickly or without mechanical help.

Re:driven properly

[HornWumpus]

Gonna have to agree with with DocSavage. Same mpg I get from my 1.6 civic. Sometimes I can get it a little lower by really flogging it.

Re:driven properly

[HornWumpus]

I'm sorry. Disagree, I guess. We're the ones driving 'properly'.

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Witness the SHEER INTELLIGENCE (not) of Sardaukar86 http://news.slashdot.org/comme... + http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sardaukar86 foaming @ the mouth again? He forgot to take his meds!

Re:It happened one time in a spree. Trending?

[Ol Olsoc]

A lot of things are trending if they only have to happen 1 time for that to be said.

That's Fox news SOP, no?

Justice

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, the fact that wealthy parents can protect their kids from criminal justice reeks so badly of corruption that it's hard to smell the underlying campaign donations anymore. And no, they shouldn't go to jail for life for committing some minor crimes. Just 5 days in some nice secure and safe jail would be enough to pop in to their minds when they are next going to do something stupid. No need to leave that 5 day visit on any public record, so not to ruin anyones future work prospects. What I'm trying to say here is: even the parents might be ok with their kids getting a punishment. But since most punishments are way overboard and will ruin the rest of the life they will do whatever is in their power to keep the case off record and the kid away from any criminal justice system.

Undercity

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it's time to quit pretending like we're looking out for everyone and just accept we're building an undercity to warehouse have-nots.

Marketing bonanza

[justthinkit]

Smart puts up 3 cars to get tipped over. Gets ten or a hundred times that money back in free advertising. Smart.

Thank god

[Tyrannicsupremacy]

I hate those disgusting little cars.

Hippies

[brunnegd]

Sounds like left coast hippies still drugged out from the latest Pelosi rally