Can You Buy a License To Speed In California?

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes: "Alex Mayyasi reports that in the parking lots of Silicon Valley's venture capital firms, expensive cars gleam in the California sun and a closer look reveals that the cars share a mysterious detail: they nearly all have a custom license plate frame that reads, 'Member. 11-99 Foundation.' Are the Bay Area's wealthy all part of some sort of illuminati group that identifies each other by license plate instead of secret handshakes? The answer is the state highway patrol — the men and women that most people interact with only when getting ticketed for speeding. A number of the frames read 'CHP 11-99 Foundation,' which is the full name of a charitable organization that supports California Highway Patrol officers and their families in times of crisis. Donors receive one license plate as part of a $2,500 'Classic' level donation, or two as part of a bronze, silver, or gold level donation of $5,000, $10,000, or $25,000. Rumor has it, according to Mayyasi, that the license plate frames come with a lucrative return on investment. As one member of a Mercedes-Benz owners community wrote online back in 2002: 'I have the ultimate speeding ticket solution. I paid $1800 for a lifetime membership into the 11-99 foundation. My only goal was to get the infamous 'get out of jail' free license plate frame.'

The 11-99 Foundation has sold license plate frames for most of its 32 year existence, and drivers have been aware of the potential benefits since at least the late 1990s. But attention to the issue in 2006-2008 led the foundation to stop giving out the frames. An article in the LA Times asked 'Can Drivers Buy CHP Leniency?' and began by describing a young man zipping around traffic — including a police cruiser — and telling the Times that he believed his 11-99 frames kept him from receiving a ticket. But the decision was almost irrelevant to another thriving market: the production and sale of fake 11-99 license plate frames. But wait — the CHP 11-99 Foundation also gives out membership cards to big donors. 'Unless you have the I.D. in hand when (not if) I stop you,' says one cop, 'no love will be shown.'"

Comments

selective enforcement at it's finest.

[rogoshen1]

Heh, in AZ you can buy a specialized, state issued 'honoring fallen officers' license plate-- with similar effects.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[mythosaz]

To people outside of Arizona, we've got 35 (!) choices for our plate outside of the default, each costing $25 extra, and $25 extra-extra if you want it personalized.

A few of them have restrictions (purple heart, alternative fuel, veteran), but the rest are a pure style choice. Anyone with $50,000 and a NPO can get a plate into production - since $17 of the $25 goes to your charity.

So, yes, there's no doubt that Families of Fallen Police Officers plates, as well as Veteran, and Purple Heart have a higher bar set for the threshold of getting pulled over. In addition to those plates, you can by-hand order Congressional Medal of Honor, Former POW and Pearl Harbor Survivor. All of which I'm sure are mostly free from traffic tickets -- just not something you can purchase on a whim. Survived Pearl Harbor? Fuck it, Mr. Have a nice day.

An aside... ....there was a guy from a native tribe here who was a fairly famous war veteran. [A quick search of CMH winners doesn't show him, but I'm sure it'll pop into my head some day.] He lived NW of Phoenix, and reportedly the van that took him to his Elks Lodge or VFW hall used to drive like a bat out of hell across 93 through Joshua Tree -- and the cops smiled and waved.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[rogoshen1]

Yeah, I lived in AZ for about 18 months and was a absolutely bewildered by the number of different plates.

I get revenue generation and money being tight and all that.. but you should be able to tell at a quick cursory glance what state a plate is from.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Jeremi]

All of which I'm sure are mostly free from traffic tickets -- just not something you can purchase on a whim. Survived Pearl Harbor? Fuck it, Mr. Have a nice day.

I know gut instinct is what the Slashdot comments section runs on, but what actual, non-anecdotal evidence to we have that police officers give preferential treatment to people with these license-plate holders?

Has any of this actually been studied in a scientific way, and if so, what were the results?

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[mythosaz]

Pearl Harbor Survivor is not a licence plate HOLDER.

It is a state-issued alternative license plate.

http://deserttitle.com/blog/wp...

You're right though, I have no numbers to back up my theory, but... ...FFS, cut the 90 year old Pearl Harbor veteran some slack, 'eh?

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[mythosaz]

Law changed in AZ back in 2008 where license pate frames now have to clearly show the "ARIZONA" that's on top of all of the specialty plates.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/...

...but you're right. It's a mind-blowing menagerie of custom plates out here.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[general_re]

To people outside of Arizona, we've got 35 (!) choices for our plate outside of the default, each costing $25 extra, and $25 extra-extra if you want it personalized.

Amateurs. Here in Virginia we have over 200 choices, not including the ability to have your own custom business logo on the plate if you have a large enough fleet. You can't tell me some of those don't get you a little special consideration when you get pulled over.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[pspahn]

A truck I bought after high school had several IAFF (firefighter organization) stickers in the window. I thought they looked pretty cool so they didn't bother me. The previous owner, however, told that I should keep them since cops will be more lenient if I am pulled over. His dad was a higher up in the fire department in that city and gave them to his son for this specific reason.

I was pulled over probably 3 or 4 times in that truck. Never got a ticket, which includes the time I charged over Donner Summit during a blizzard without snow chains and a bunch of drunken friends in the back (it was a 2WD truck).

Anecdotal? Sure. Did the stickers still do what I was told they would do? Absolutely.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Fnord666]

Pearl Harbor Survivor is not a licence(sic) plate HOLDER.

It is a state-issued alternative license plate.

Dude, chill out. He didn't mean a physical license plate retention device, he meant a person who has been issued that license plate. Kinda like when someone holds an office, they don't literally have a bunch of office furniture in their arms.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Maxo-Texas]

From the article... assuming this is a real quote- here's at least one cop who admits bias.

'Unless you have the I.D. in hand when (not if) I stop you,' says one cop, 'no love will be shown.'"

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[I'm New Around Here]

I was pulled over probably 3 or 4 times in that truck. Never got a ticket, which includes the time I charged over Donner Summit during a blizzard without snow chains and a bunch of drunken friends in the back (it was a 2WD truck).

How many of them survived the journey? and how many of the others did they eat? ;^)

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[BLKMGK]

Someone I know is a cop's wife. She has one of those "thin blue line" stickers on her car. I can tell you that it absolutely helps get her out of being pulled over let alone a ticket if she is. It really pisses me off but they just laugh about it...

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Anonymous Coward]

Virginia is similar, we have over 200 different plates. It takes like 500 people to prepay for a specific design and some approval process and bam, one more new plate on the list.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/v...

VA also makes getting a personalized plate numbers/letters very simple. I think I read somewhere that in 6 plates in VA are personalized.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Dahamma]

Yeah, but in AZ probably 1/3 of the plates are "disabled parking" and the drivers generally make up for the speeding by driving at half the speed limit.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Dahamma]

You're right though, I have no numbers to back up my theory, but... ...FFS, cut the 90 year old Pearl Harbor veteran some slack, 'eh?

If you are a 90 year old Pearl Harbor veteran, you are a goddamn hero, no one denies that. But if you are still driving, FFS, get OFF THE ROAD before you ruin it an kill someone.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[jopsen]

All of which I'm sure are mostly free from traffic tickets -- just not something you can purchase on a whim. Survived Pearl Harbor? Fuck it, Mr. Have a nice day.

I know gut instinct is what the Slashdot comments section runs on, but what actual, non-anecdotal evidence to we have that police officers give preferential treatment to people with these license-plate holders?

Has any of this actually been studied in a scientific way, and if so, what were the results?

Good point, 2500 USD is pretty cheap for bribe... To think that cops would care is crazy, 2500 USD makes no difference.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Cederic]

If you are a 90 year old Pearl Harbor veteran, you are a goddamn hero, no one denies that

I deny that. Unless you can offer some proof.

Hiding in a bomb shelter is not heroic. Sensible, but not heroic.
Manning your post in a ship under fire is not heroic. You get trained to do it, failing to stay at your post would be the thing worthy of a title, not merely 'doing your job'.

But maybe he pulled the charred corpse of his colleague from the AA gun chair, swung it round, shot down four Japanese fighter bombers, took three rounds in the chest but then stayed there shooting at torpedo bombers. That's heroic.

I guess we'll never know. But don't go pretending I have to accept that he's a hero, just because he managed not to die.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Megane]

I think Texas is much worse about that. For instance, I think you can get just about any major college logo or professional NFL team logo. There's at least half a dozen non-logo specialty plates, including one that's just white letters on a pink background. This is because now it's just a multi-layer printing process, and they don't have to stamp raised letters anymore. At least the default plates are now plain instead of that "night sky" background which in the first version actually obscured some of the plate numbers.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Megane]

Have you ever noticed how people with handicapped license plates always drive like it's their car that's handicapped? What's up with that?

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[DarkOx]

Anecdotal? Sure. Did the stickers still do what I was told they would do? Absolutely.

Um pretty much by your own admission "Absolutely" is really "Maybe." We cannot know what would have happened without the stickers and we don't have any solid statistics around similar incidents with and without stickers. Anecdotally I have never had and FOP or IAFF stickers on my cars and I have only been warned for speeding myself. Which says nothing about their effectiveness but is proof you can get let off without having them. So possession of such stickers is not a necessary condition for being let go; therefore form the available evidence we can draw no real conclusion about how effective they are.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[DarkOx]

Good point, 2500 USD is pretty cheap for bribe...

Some of the 'pricing' that goes into a bribe are

A) chances the person taking the bribe will be caught accepting the bribe.
B) chances the person taking the bribe will be caught doing whatever they were bribed to do
C) risk level after considering any negative consequences for the bribed associated with B
D) actual difficulty executing B
E) how likely the briber can expect his payoff to secure the desired outcome

Lets look at this situation:

A)
Group of officers starts a "Fraternal Order of Police" or something similar its ostensibly a charity for injured officers but also throws some fancy thank you and holiday parties for the force (the payoff). They pass out window stickers to contributors at certain levels. They know this helps because people like show off how generous they are (legit reason many charities do this (the cover)), they also know some people will cynically believe it will buy them special treatment and this badge is how they prove their entitlement. The officers with a nod and a wink agree to actually provide this special treatment because they think it will increase the donations leading the fancier and more frequent parties.

B)
Will they get caught? Not very likely unless someone does anything very stupid. They time when they collect the funds vs the time when they commit the act are widely separated. They act itself is in the negative. Not pulling someone over in the first place because you saw an FOB sticker in the window creates no audit-able event. Even fairly honest members of the public are unlikely to call the mayors office and complain that they just blew an officers doors off and he sat and did nothing. If there are lots of people around and the behavior is egregious they can pull someone over and warn them, none of the whiteness are likely to be able to tell if a warning or a ticket was issued.

C) The risk is low because the odds getting caught are low and even if someone suspects their shot at proving anything is almost nil. It will be very hard to make any conspiracy charges stick, the worst the will likely happen is officers might be dismissed for under performance. Proving negatives are not easy; especially when there is already a discretionary element to writing tickets or not in the first place.

D) Could not be any easier to execute, in fact its probably easier than doing their job correctly.

E) Not every officer, likely not even most, will be in on the conspiracy, the payer cannont know for sure he won't get pulled over by an honest cop.

So considering the situation the 'price' of this bribe should be low.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Anonymous Coward]

Without those people that "managed not to die" during that sneak attack the war in the Pacific would likely have gone very differently. What's more damn near anybody that did wind up surviving the attack wound up seeing serious action in the pacific shortly thereafter.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Anonymous Coward]

Manning your post in a ship under fire is not heroic.

You, sir, are an ignorant little piece of shit.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Anonymous Coward]

But don't go pretending I have to accept that he's a hero, just because he managed not to die.

I can only assume by this comment that you've never read first-hand accounts of what the soldiers in the Pacific went through during World War 2. Yeah, we may not know exactly what transpired while he was in the service, but there is a fairly good chance that the guy went through hell and is a legitimate hero.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Hey! Show some respect! Anyone who had to live through an attack of that magnitude, all while having to put up with both Micheal Bay shouting inane directions and Ben Affleck acting is a God Danm American hero and don't you forget it!

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Hognoxious]

Are former members of the Imperial Japanese Navy eligible?

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Shirley Marquez]

Some 90 year old people can drive safely. Some can't. Their fitness to drive should be judged case by case, not categorically.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Shirley Marquez]

I wish I hadn't already commented in this thread; otherwise I'd use a mod point to mark this "funny".

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[ColdSam]

So to avoid a ticket you're saying I don't really need to have such a plate, just have a person who has a plate in the car with me? Does he just leave it conspicuously on his lap or does he need to waggle it provocatively?

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[joelgrimes]

Manning your post in a ship under fire is not heroic. You get trained to do it, failing to stay at your post would be the thing worthy of a title, not merely 'doing your job'.

What are you, Sergeant Slaughter? Being trained to do a job doesn't take away your fear. When doing your job involves facing enemy fire in defense of your country then simply not running away is a heroic act.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Patent Lover]

I have the wildlife conservationist one. Doesn't seem to be helping.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[drsmithy]

Trust me, you have no idea what "revenue generation" is.

Here in Australia, a personalised number plate will set you back anywhere from $400-odd to a few grand. And that's before even getting into "rare" plates that people already own.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[bluefoxlucid]

Haha.... Veteran, Purple Heart, MOH, POW plates, that's great. More for America's most entitled class.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[mythosaz]

No, no. But we should have a special plate for the Japanese we "relocated" during WW2 -- plenty of them ended up here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[mythosaz]

All of our sports teams and colleges are available too -- part of the 40 or so choices we have, but MAN, you're not kidding. Texas looks like it has 108 vanity options on top of whatever veteran/award/memorial plates might be lurking around. [That 108 doesn't include repeats for motorcycles/trailers.]

And we went to plain old printed plates as well - no more stamped letters.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are saying simply signing up KNOWING X may happen (something that causes fear) is enough to be a hero... ? So _EVERYBODY_ in the armed forces is a hero? Man, you have a very low bar for "hero". I also assume all the soldiers that have murdered other soldiers (or innocents) are heroic too... because you can't revoke being a hero. Hey! Working the drive through window at a fast food place late at night is heroic too. And stop-n-robs late at night.

Sounds like you are from the generation where every kid gets a trophy. :(

I'm with your parent. "Hero" is has been completely shredded news wise and it shows by your definition of it.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[Megane]

I never said anything about "our" sports teams and colleges. You can get them on a Texas license plate for almost any major university or NFL team, regardless of what state they're in. I'm sure that's all made easier by group-licensing agreements. Well, that and being able to put any 4-color process art on a plate in low quantity.

Re:selective enforcement at it's finest.

[davewoods]

This was the funniest thing I have ever read on /..

Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You just gave me an idea ...

I got this beat

[SternisheFan]

I have the very special CHP 11/99 "Gold" plate, gets me off for up to 5 vehicular homicides.

Re:I got this beat

[korbulon]

I have the very special CHP 11/99 "Gold" plate, gets me off for up to 5 vehicular homicides.

Affluenza claims another victim. Can nothing be done?!

Re: I got this beat

[Anonymous Coward]

In Ottawa we have something called "red plates", which pretty much provides this, but for a different reason. It's well-known there that if you see a red plate, to stay _very_ far away, especially as a pedestrian.

Re:I got this beat

[Bing Tsher E]

So the special membership card has five punchouts on it?

Re: I got this beat

[w1zz4]

Andrei Knyazev http://www.ideablawg.ca/blog/t...

Re:I got this beat

[davester666]

so, one trip to the grocery store in the 'bad' part of town...

Re: I got this beat

[en.ABCD]

Near Washington, DC, we have something similar -- except that ours are light blue with a red header that says "DIPLOMAT", like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... . You still have to stay far away, though.

Re:I got this beat

[CrazyDuke]

Maybe we should get the government to throw more money at the problem?

Re:I got this beat

[Anonymous Coward]

heh. There was a similar thing in the Los Angeles area many years ago with license plate frames that read "KMA-367", which was the FCC designation for the LAPD.

can't speed in california

[Anonymous Coward]

the roads are too crowded anyway. don't come to California.

Money Talks, Bullshit Walks.

[zenlessyank]

Always have had, and always will have 2 sets of rules.

Go figure

[spankey51]

Well... If you can do it with congressmen and senators, then of course you can do it with lower-level stateworkers.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Well...
If you can do it with congressmen and senators, then of course you can do it with lower-level stateworkers.

David Gregory has something like this for felony gun trafficking.

So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

'Unless you have the I.D. in hand when (not if) I stop you,' says one cop, 'no love will be shown.'"

So what he is saying is you DO get love (aka get out of jail free) if you show the card.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Sentrion]

Yes. As long as you don't offer cash or gifts directly to the officer he has the discretion to let you go with a warning. You can still offer bribes; they're just illegal and could get you into more trouble if the officer follows a code of ethics or too many run-ins with internal affairs. Supporting these charities seems to have almost just as good of an effect without the liability.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[mysidia]

So what he is saying is you DO get love (aka get out of jail free) if you show the card.

He is implying that you might get some love on a one-off stop; perhaps a warning or a more-lenient ticket.

On the other hand... is donating $2500 to a charity, really worth avoiding a couple potential traffic tickets?

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[tompaulco]

is donating $2500 to a charity, really worth avoiding a couple potential traffic tickets?

I don't know about California, but in Oklahoma a speeding ticket is going to cost you at least $200. If you avoid two tickets a year, it would pay for itself in 12.5 years.
Of course, I'm a grown up now, and not as likely to be pulled over at any rate. I haven't been pulled over in about 8 years and haven't had a ticket in about 20.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[OneAhead]

Oh I'm sure there are people out there for whom the time wasted on the preparation and payment of the tickets is worth that much money. It's ballpark 1/100 of the price of a basic yacht and the more you speed, the more you get out of it. Also this is just one officer they interviewed; there might be others who won't stop you at all, which means even more time saved.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[pla]

I don't know about California, but in Oklahoma a speeding ticket is going to cost you at least $200. If you avoid two tickets a year, it would pay for itself in 12.5 years.

No one really cares about the tickets themselves. For someone making $200k a year, they would gladly pay $200 every week for the right to zip through crawling traffic.

The real problem comes from getting "points" and the eventual loss of your license. And once that happens, you have drive like a frickin' choirboy or they start giving out real punishments, like spending weekends in a cage (c'mon, let's not pretend people actually stop driving when they lose their license - In 99% of the US, "not driving" amounts to a sentence of death-by-life-on-welfare).

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget insurance rate hikes.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[sootman]

> In 99% of the US, "not driving" amounts to
> a sentence of death-by-life-on-welfare

If you get your license pulled, they usually allow you to drive to and from work.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[mysidia]

No one really cares about the tickets themselves. For someone making $200k a year, they would gladly pay $200 every week for the right to zip through crawling traffic.

Did it not occur to you that someone making >$200k a year might feel some obligation or desire to contribute sizable amounts to some charities, in order to bolster the community, not because they expect to be exempted from enforcement of the law?

Especially law enforcement, since their expensive cars and other bling put the high-income folks at greater risk of a crime targetting them: the availability and cooperation/assistance from law enforcement is potentially very important to these folks' safety and peace of mind.

If indeed they were speeding to a ridiculous degree, and it was a safety issue, and it caused them to be at fault in an accident --- some silly license plate frame is not going to get them out of it, or protect them from the multi-million$ personal injury lawsuit from the impacted driver.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[zugmeister]

As a teenager driving a rusted, orange longbed truck with no muffler, I managed to accrue enough points to get my license suspended for six months. Two days before that was up I got pulled over for not using my turn signal, and that time I got a year (and more fines, of course). At no point did anyone suggest there would be any leeway for things like getting to my job or college, and there was in fact not. Maybe I chose the wrong state to grow up in?

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[belmolis]

People who give to a charity for good reasons do not need special identification on their vehicles to let the police know that they deserve special treatment.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[tgv]

So, it *is* corruption.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Areyoukiddingme]

... or protect them from the multi-million$ personal injury lawsuit from the impacted driver.

For once, an appropriate use of the marketing-monkey trick of substituting "impact" for "affect".

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[loonycyborg]

c'mon, let's not pretend people actually stop driving when they lose their license - In 99% of the US, "not driving" amounts to a sentence of death-by-life-on-welfare

Why not use a mass transit service like subway or tram?

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[drinkypoo]

Any legal system which does not require police to make an arrest when they witness a crime being committed is inherently corrupt. It leads to more and more bad laws being passed and used for selective enforcement of the type which we are discussing now.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[drinkypoo]

Why not use a mass transit service like subway or tram?

Because in the USA, it is usually useless. There are maybe two major cities with working public transportation and when I say "working" I mean "you will have to wade through human waste to use them, but they will get you where you want to go".

See, the federal government helped the auto companies buy up and shut down profitable rail, bus, and streetcar lines, in order to increase demand for cars. Now they want to tell us that driving is a privilege, not a right. Smells like slavery to me.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[pla]

Why not use a mass transit service like subway or tram?

I suspect you meant that tongue-in-cheek, but if not...

The nearest subway stop to me: 213 miles.
The nearest passenger train stop: 90 miles.
The nearest bus stop? 24 miles.

Hell, the nearest taxi service won't even come to my house unless I prepay by credit card.

And although you could fairly say that I live in the middle of nowhere, I actually live in a fairly densely populated region of the country, just not inside an actual city. The US just plain has fuck-all for realistic public transportation.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Idarubicin]

On the other hand... is donating $2500 to a charity, really worth avoiding a couple potential traffic tickets?

Depends on the tickets, perhaps. Shaving a $400 'big' ticket down to a $200 'small' one, or even down to a warning--that can add up. Remember that nominally-small tickets often have a large number of fundraising surcharges and taxes from different levels of government piled on top.

And the tickets themselves aren't always the greatest cost. Insurance companies will bump an owner's rates substantially after a couple of tickets (sometimes after one ticket), and those higher rates will linger for years.

Between two and four moving violations in a 12-month period will get your license suspended in California, with all the personal and financial costs associated with resolving and working around that.

Finally, this 'charitable' donation is tax deductible--so the effective price tag on this bribe is lower.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Tickets are usually discretionary unless you do something really egregious. Some officers might grant leeway for things like this, and others might see it as an attempt to undermine their authority and write every ticket they can.

Ultimately, the best way to avoid this sort of thing is to keep within the limits of the law. I'm sure some tickets get written that shouldn't be, but on the whole you shouldn't be having any issues avoiding tickets if you're obeying the laws. Plus, obeying the laws tends to make it easier to avoid collisions anyways.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Idarubicin]

If indeed they were speeding to a ridiculous degree, and it was a safety issue, and it caused them to be at fault in an accident --- some silly license plate frame is not going to get them out of it, or protect them from the multi-million$ personal injury lawsuit from the impacted driver.

Which, I'm sure, is a great comfort for that now-crippled or -deceased driver. The guy with the license plate frame is probably very sorry after the fact, and would probably do things differently in retrospect. Meanwhile, the guy who lost his legs doesn't want a million dollars; he wants his legs.

In occupational health and safety, it is generally and widely understood that serious or fatal accidents seldom occur out of the blue. A fatality will nearly always be surrounded in time and space by a cloud of (usually unrecorded or unreported) near misses and minor incidents. Relatedly, there is the concept of "normalization of deviance". Essentially, the idea that if you let your standards slip a bit and nothing bad happens, the tendency is to allow that lower level of vigilance to become the new acceptable standard. Lather, rinse, repeat until a major failure occurs. (The Challenger disaster is an oft-cited example.)

Coming back to the licence plate frames, I don't care whether or not someone gets a fine for speeding. I do care that we've created a pool of privileged drivers who are no longer receiving any feedback when they engage in higher-risk driving behaviors. "Go ahead and drive as fast as you want; we'll trust your judgement on that until after your first high-speed collision..." probably isn't a real solid basis for road safety.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[mysidia]

I'm not entirely sure they get special treatment. I have heard stories about cops saying they'd pull people over, just because they saw the special license plate frame adornment.

They might get leniency on some offenses.... but they might also be more likely to get pulled over and issued a minor citation

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[mysidia]

I do care that we've created a pool of privileged drivers who are no longer receiving any feedback when they engage in higher-risk driving behaviors.

I don't think that's true. If they are driving recklessly, they are still going to get pulled over.

"Go ahead and drive as fast as you want; we'll trust your judgement on that until after your first high-speed collision..." probably isn't a real solid basis for road safety.

No. However.... speeding tickets for drivers apparently going 75mph in a 70mph zone are bullshit. There are a large number of tickets that have everything to do with generating revenue for police officers and government, which have absolutely nothing in fact to do with "road safety".

The arbitrariness of "Well.. you gave to these charitable causes" is no more arbitrary than the basis for the speeding ticket in the first place, in many cases.

There are plenty of miscreants engaging in high-risk road behaviors such as tailgating, drunk driving, cutting other drivers off --- turning in front of oncoming traffic, slamming on the breaks for no reason, repeatedly swerving around traffic from lane to lane (with high-risk lane changes directly in front of another driver), that manage to never get any tickets ----- and they don't seem to need special stickers or license plates to get away with it.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

also, lets not forget about car insurance, which increases with the number of tickets issued to the driver (and is proportional to the value of the car).

I pay $300 for insurance every six months for full coverage on a $25k minivan and liability on another vehicle. What do you think the owner of a $250k ferarri pays, and how much will it go up with 3 speeding tickets? I'm thinking it pays for itself after 2 tickets!

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Rick in China]

He's also saying that he thinks people who can create fake custom license plate frames can't recreate fake charity member ID cards. Proof that cops are generally geniuses.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[tompaulco]

I pay $300 for insurance every six months for full coverage on a $25k minivan and liability on another vehicle. What do you think the owner of a $250k ferarri pays, and how much will it go up with 3 speeding tickets? I'm thinking it pays for itself after 2 tickets!

I don't know about a Ferrari, but I had a Lotus Esprit and the insurance on it was about the same for a year as I paid for a month for my other cars. I had to drive it less than 7,000 miles a year, but it was full coverage.

Re:So you CAN buy a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

At no point did anyone suggest there would be any leeway for things like getting to my job or college, and there was in fact not. Maybe I chose the wrong state to grow up in?

Without knowing the state it's hard to tell. In my state they were called an "occupational license" and they were significantly restricted vs. an ordinary one.

Don't forget your yellow ribbon sticker

[Anonymous Coward]

Or your American flag lapel

Re:Don't forget your yellow ribbon sticker

[Sentrion]

Since there's no cash contribution backing it up it don't expect it to get you very far. Remember, always ask "what's in this individual's best interests"? Then make your decision from there.

It pays to invest money and time volunteering for the re-election campaigns of officials who will have a direct impact on your business and private affairs.

Expecting a divorce with a major custody fight? Prepare now by volunteering for CASA. Network with judges and lawyers while creating the impression of what kind of outstanding and caring individual you are.

Expecting major surgery in the coming year? Start ratcheting up on donations to your local non-profit hospital where the surgery will take place. Not just so physicians will work harder to provide quality care, but you'll be less likely to have any BS from the billing department. Out of network services suddenly billed at in-network rates with the swish of a pen.

When regulators come around your business, always mention that you're hiring and ask if they know anyone with such-and-such skills or experience. If they refer you a close friend or relative, hire that person on the spot.

And the number one rule of business: always take decision-makers out to lunch and pay for their meal.

Re:Don't forget your yellow ribbon sticker

[mysidia]

If they refer you a close friend or relative, hire that person on the spot.

This can backfire, if their friend or relative turns out to be a terrible employee, and your business incurs the expense of paying them with little benefit and perhaps net harm...

Re:Don't forget your yellow ribbon sticker

[tompaulco]

Don't forget your yellow ribbon sticker

Yup. How will people know your fella is coming home from jail if you don't have the yellow ribbon?

Re:Don't forget your yellow ribbon sticker

[Anonymous Coward]

When we bid on International Projects the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act prevents us being a US based company from bribing govt officials even though our competitors will. So we create a JV with a local company. The local company is in charge of providing the local environment which means buying furniture for the local office and bribing whoever needs to be bribed. Oftentimes the local company is a one person company run by a close relative of the relevant officials.

PBA Cards

[mythosaz]

On most of the east coast, you'd better make sure to hand your PBA card over to the officer when he asks for your registration.

It's the same as handing $20 to the check-in clerk in Vegas with your ID.

Re:PBA Cards

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be fucking pissed that you think that you can bribe me, without actually giving me the cash ... says something about cops.

Re:PBA Cards

[Albanach]

You can always take the 'just stick to the speed limit' approach. It's also pretty effective for avoiding tickets.

Re:PBA Cards

[PrimaryConsult]

Except you sometimes end up in more dangerous situations that way. It's not fun when trucks and buses are passing *you*... not to mention the long line of cars behind that truck / bus now occupying your "shit there's a [immovable object] in the road" swerve space.

Re:PBA Cards

[Anonymous Coward]

On most of the east coast, you'd better make sure to hand your PBA card over to the officer when he asks for your registration.

It's the same as handing $20 to the check-in clerk in Vegas with your ID.

The "$20 Trick" is an urban legend.

Re:PBA Cards

[TheRealMindChild]

It's not fun when trucks and buses are passing *you*

Who cares?

Re:PBA Cards

[PrimaryConsult]

If you are equally relaxed whether the vehicle next to you is a Mini Cooper or an 18 wheeler, your survival instinct must be terrible...

Re:PBA Cards

[Lehk228]

or maybe you are a coward behind the wheel.

it's a truck not a warg

Re:PBA Cards

[PrimaryConsult]

Have you ever actually observed a truck on the highway? Just drive behind one for about 10 minutes. If you played a drinking game over how many times it fouls the other lane, you'd be DUI before the time is up.
1. Trucks are wider so they have less margin on each side of the lane.
2. When taking a curve, if they are on the outside lane, they are guaranteed to foul the inside lane, simply because a straight line is the shortest path between two points.
3. If the trailer is empty, the wind will cause it to sway erratically.

Also count how many truck tire blowouts you see. That has to cause at least a small loss of control, woe is he that is next to the truck when that happens.

Plus the kinetic energy. Just two days ago: somehow I think the bus would have fared better if it was a mini cooper that crossed the divider... bus-and-fedex-truck-collide-on-i5-bus-in-flames.

Basically, anyone driving adjacent to a truck for more than the 10 seconds it takes to pass one is applying for a darwin award.

Re:PBA Cards

[mjwx]

On most of the east coast, you'd better make sure to hand your PBA card over to the officer when he asks for your registration.

It's the same as handing $20 to the check-in clerk in Vegas with your ID.

The "$20 Trick" is an urban legend.

This,

Even if it did once work, every man and their dog knows about it so it's too well publicised to work.

The best way I know of to get any kind of upgrade is to be friends with someone who can hand them out.

Re:PBA Cards

[weweedmaniii]

It's not fun when trucks and buses are passing *you* Who cares?

The police officer that will pull you over for driving too slow for conditions. It is a real charge in my state and yes you will get to stand in line in traffic court with the 19 year old that got cited for 20 over the limit.

Re:PBA Cards

[mythosaz]

...except it's well documented, and you're an idiot.

http://www.thetwentydollartric...

About a 90% rate overall in Vegas - YMMV elsewhere.

Re:PBA Cards

[mythosaz]

See above. Works well and often, despite publication.

http://www.thetwentydollartric...

Re:PBA Cards

[mjwx]

See above. Works well and often, despite publication.

http://www.thetwentydollartric...

Above says your name.

Sorry, but this is a complete fallacy perpetuated by people with no idea about how the hospitality industry works. In most countries, taking money for upgrades will get employees fired. In most developing countries, even the allegation of it is enough.

On a recent trip to Vegas for a wedding, 11 people in the group tried this, 11 people failed, 10 of them were told that it never works and they'd get fired if they got caught and handed the money back visibly (cameras watch the staff, not just the punters). Taking tips is one thing, giving out hotel resources in exchange for money is another.

Re:PBA Cards

[mythosaz]

Then perhaps your particular hotel has a policy different than the reports of hundreds of other people on that site.

Here's more - since obviously you're in denial:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo....

Plenty of failures in that 1,300+ post thread, but also plenty of successes - and it mostly varies by property. Posts below are cherry-picked from the last two weeks.

$20 tip at TI. got me 34th floor, corner room strip view south tower and resort fees waived. Suite wasn't happening given march madness weekend. Always try...but I thought it was great for 4 night stay

Checked-in yesterday for a 5-day stay at the Luxor & got upgraded from a 'Pyramid Deluxe' to a 'Tower Suite'. (MLife Gold card, so that may have helped(?)).

2 for 2 with $20 trick. PH and Paris, both within last year, both were very nice room upgrades with views

Just keep pretending that it doesn't work.

Re:PBA Cards

[Anonymous Coward]

> It's the same as handing $20 to the check-in clerk in Vegas with your ID.

Wait, what's this get you?

It's not a license to speed

[EmagGeek]

It's the cops extorting money. It's not just speeding. This creates the appearance that, if you do not buy the membership, you'll be stopped and shown absolutely no mercy, and may even have charges trumped up against you - or otherwise be punished.

This is tantamount to soliciting bribes.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. If a big bunch of people don't go to jail big time for this, you don't have a justice system over there. This is ridiculous.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[EmagGeek]

Oh there's no question as to whether we have a justice system here. We do not, and have not in a looooong time.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[bill_mcgonigle]

This creates the appearance that, if you do not buy the membership, you'll be stopped and shown absolutely no mercy

we give these people a monopoly on violence and expect what, exactly, Andy Taylor and Barney Fife?

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

We've seen this before in History via indulgences.
We're going to need a new Martin Luther soon at the rate the USA is going.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[mythosaz]

Meh.

Generally speaking, unless it's a motorcycle cop specifically tasked to speed/traffic, when a cop pulls you over, he's got a bunch of latitude. He adds a bunch of factors up in his head and decides if you're getting a ticket.

What's next? You gonna complain that hot girls should get more tickets?

Human nature.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Tailhook]

Oh look at the outrage.

Cops, fire fighters, city managers and the rest routinely gouge huge chunks of money out of city and state governments in the US. Most of the time they get a pass. After all, why shouldn't some LA assistant chief pull $260k a year bilking double and triple time hours recorded while getting dressed for work? That's nothing compared to some evil capitalist pig-dog bankster. Right?

That's the rationale, anyhow. So now this culture of corruption has gone and created a way to launder some of their bribes through a charity. And we're supposed to go all pitchfork and lick-spittle about it?

Selective outrage. That's all it is.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[jafac]

a.k.a. : a "protection racket"

Re:It's not a license to speed

[quantaman]

It's the cops extorting money. It's not just speeding. This creates the appearance that, if you do not buy the membership, you'll be stopped and shown absolutely no mercy, and may even have charges trumped up against you - or otherwise be punished.

This is tantamount to soliciting bribes.

Soliciting bribes maybe, they're not accepting the money personally.

And unless cops go around advising motorists to buy the membership I don't see how it can be extortion, and I don't think the idea that if you don't have a membership "you'll be stopped and shown absolutely no mercy, and may even have charges trumped up against you - or otherwise be punished" is particularly compelling. I'd assume without a card they'd carry out their duties as usual (as good or bad as they usually are).

The cops are obviously doing something very wrong and people should be facing whatever discipline or legal repercussions it takes to make it stop, but I'm not sure what the exact charges are.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[pitchpipe]

This is tantamount to soliciting bribes.

But it's not. Remember: money = free speech.

Rich people are allowed to convince the police officer to not give them a speeding ticket using their form of free speech (money), just as you're allowed to convince the police officer to not give you a speeding ticket using your form of free speech (words from your mouth).

Guess which one will probably result in a beating.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[stenvar]

This is tantamount to soliciting bribes.

Oh, my! Corrupt police and corrupt unions, and in a Blue state, too! Say it ain't so! What have we come to!

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

> I'm not sure what the exact charges are.

Racketeering.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[tgv]

It's not extortion, it's corruption. The Cosa Nostra also doesn't accept the money personally.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a protection racket. Remember having to buy tickets to the policeman's ball -- an euphemism for a non-existent event -- and what would happen if you didn't? Being tagged as a cop hater was the least of your problems. Never ending variations of bribes will always exist in organisations exempt from transparency and accountability.

Why do you think they harass people with intimidating and threatening questions hoping to scare them into answering questions about their social and economic status in the community; knowing about one's employment and connections background is a de facto bribe to determine what they have to really do or what they can get away with if you're a loser in their eyes.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! I had to scroll halfway down to find some barely relevant bullshit union bashing post. You need to tell your other paid GOP shills that they aren't doing their jobs very effectively. In a thread like this I'd have figured 4 or 5 paid anti-worker posts would have appeared by now.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI: Free speech only protects you from being suppressed. It doesn't protect you from prosecution from yelling FIRE in a crowded theater, slandering someone, soliciting a prostitute, or (most relevant in this case) offering a bribe. But thanks for playing though!

p.s. At least you're not one of those "money = free speech" guys that's not trying claim there's a transitive equality between money and speech and then fallaciously deducing that having more money means having more freedom, so rich people should have their wealth redistrubuted under the "equal protection" clause.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next? You gonna complain that hot girls should get more tickets?

Yes, absolutely.

Acceptable reasons for choosing not to give a ticket to someone driving over the speed limit include: good driving conditions, little other traffic on the road, maintaining good clearance from other cars, etc. Unacceptable reasons include: the amount that the driver has donated to a police slush fund, and the size of the driver's mammaries.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the fuck is this -1?

It refutes parent's troll with fact.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[mjwx]

Meh.

Generally speaking, unless it's a motorcycle cop specifically tasked to speed/traffic, when a cop pulls you over, he's got a bunch of latitude. He adds a bunch of factors up in his head and decides if you're getting a ticket.

Cops do have a lot of latitude, even when specifically tasked to traffic (I.E. highway patrol). However if they've decided to ticket you, they're going to ticket you.

So you cant talk your way out of a ticket, but you can talk your way into one. If they've only stopped to caution you, being a smart arse turns that caution into an infraction.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Anonymous Coward]

We've seen this before in History via indulgences. We're going to need a new Martin Luther soon at the rate the USA is going.

Indulgences; that's an interesting historical condition I was unaware of until now. It may explain why the U.S., as it becomes more Catholic, is becoming more like Latin America.

If you're an adult male and not a church official, then why would you not like to do what real men do, be in the security. Real men not wanting to be in any type of militia are up to something; if they're not one of those mentally ill ho-mo-sex-u-als, then it's most likely terrorism.

What's it gonna be bub, the Badge or Bible? Females? If your not a wife then your a whore. Their families will embrace death squads and rejoice in the elimination of the untermenschen.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[mythosaz]

What planet are you from?

On this planet, dumb hot chicks get out of tickets.

Re:It's not a license to speed

[Stuarticus]

A monopoly? That's weird, I heard it's pretty common.

Re:The law is for the little people

[Anonymous Coward]

Follow the law then...or get the ID

We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

But here's the thing. If I pull you over and you have one of our public servant honor tags, you're still getting a ticket for whatever I pulled you over for. In fact, I am less likely to let you go, because of the appearance of impropriety created by these tags. I get a lot more "by the book" when someone starts flashing special tags and membership cards at me.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you worry at all about being sued if you don't write a ticket, because some enterprising young blonde in those tiny shorts feels it's profitable to accuse you of pulling her over just to get a look at her?

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

But here's the thing. If I pull you over and you have one of our public servant honor tags, you're still getting a ticket for whatever I pulled you over for.

Is the same true of someone that hands you his or a relative's PD business card? If you're not treating fellow officers exactly the same as any other member of the public, it's far, far worse than an "appearance of impropriety". "Professional courtesy" is bullshit.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the same is true. Our department has an honor code that says we hold ourselves to the same standards we hold the driving public. While we can and do exercise discretion, we don't exercise more for ourselves than we do for others.

Generally speaking, if someone commits a minor traffic infraction, I'll pull them over and if they own up to it and don't give me a bunch of excuses, I will write them up with a warning. Honestly, the vast majority of traffic stops I do here are for equipment violations - lights mostly - and usually people really just don't know they have a taillight or brake light out and are thankful that I told them about it, and 90% of those get resolved by mail before the warning becomes a citation.

Speaking of which, to the other poster, yes, there is paperwork for every traffic stop, for the very reason you mention. We still document that the stop was for an infraction.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

But here's the thing. If I pull you over and you have one of our public servant honor tags, you're still getting a ticket for whatever I pulled you over for. In fact, I am less likely to let you go, because of the appearance of impropriety created by these tags. I get a lot more "by the book" when someone starts flashing special tags and membership cards at me.

You must be the one honest cop I've heard so much about. Nice to hear from you.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

You are, of course, entitled to your option, and to spend your money wherever you wish.

Suffice it to say; however, that I hope the acorn fell pretty far from the tree in your case.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[quantaman]

But here's the thing. If I pull you over and you have one of our public servant honor tags, you're still getting a ticket for whatever I pulled you over for. In fact, I am less likely to let you go, because of the appearance of impropriety created by these tags. I get a lot more "by the book" when someone starts flashing special tags and membership cards at me.

Is that just you or your department in general? For you at least I buy your explanation, but my question is, considering all the appearance trouble with the tags, if they aren't for nefarious purposes then what are they for?

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[alexo]

Will you ticket a fellow police officer if you observe them break the law? (Say, speeding without having their flashing lights and/or siren on)
And if so, will the ticket stick?

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[alexo]

There are at least two reasons for his opinions.
1. Corrupt or power-tripping cops.
2. The rest of the cops that protect them.

I teach my kids to always be polite to policemen, but try to avoid any contact with them if possible.
Mostly because they are the most dangerous gang around.

And please forgive me for being skeptical about your claims.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[m1ss1ontomars2k4]

That's the impression I get when I see CHP 11-99 and KMA 367 license plate frames: that the people who sell them actually have little to no relation to the actual cops on duty, and as a result they're like to get you pulled over more due to cops getting pissed that people think they can so easily get out of a ticket. I want to see some actual statistics about this kind of license plate frame usage.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Kohath]

How about getting an honest job where you don't spend your days ambushing travelers and taking their money?

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

I grew up

I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[dk20]

So, how many tickets have been issued to cops for illegal turns (no signals, running the red, etc)?
I often see the police doing the same thing they ticket others for doing.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[joe_frisch]

I believe you are honest, I believe a lot of police are, but it seems like these plates create the potential for favoritism. No bribery, but the natural tendency for people to want to support people who support them. In a similar fashion an anti-police bumper sticker might well encourage a police officer to treat someone more harshly.

Police have a lot of leeway in traffic stops - which is fine, but it also makes it very easy for them to be influenced by a variety of subtle biases.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[BitterOak]

That's simply false. I lived in SC for 4 years, and everyone drives about 10 mph above the speed limit and I've never been pulled over. And the cops I have talked to were actually very nice.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[BLKMGK]

We need more of you!

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Will you ticket a fellow police officer if you observe them break the law? (Say, speeding without having their flashing lights and/or siren on)
And if so, will the ticket stick?

Or for obstructing traffic? Because I have *never* seen a cop move out of the left lane on the highway, even when driving below the speed limit while talking on the phone or checking their computer.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[jensend]

How about not recklessly endangering others' lives and not showing contempt for democracy and the rule of law?

If you want to spend a few trillion dollars of your own money to build your own private road network where you can drive at whatever speed you darn well please, go right ahead. But if you want to use the road infrastructure paid for by your fellow citizens, you need to live with the rules your fellow citizens have put in place.

Protecting the rest of us from numbskulls like you is not just honest work, it's a great benefit to society. You could do the rest of us a benefit too by not touching a steering wheel or gas pedal ever again.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you drive the speed limit and not have to worry about it?

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

But here's the thing. If I pull you over and you have one of our public servant honor tags, you're still getting a ticket for whatever I pulled you over for. In fact, I am less likely to let you go, because of the appearance of impropriety created by these tags. I get a lot more "by the book" when someone starts flashing special tags and membership cards at me.

They all talk this talk. Styled to sound practical, honest with a touch of idealism. But it really feels chilly; something a sociopathic boy scout would say.

It's one of several scripted procedures brought up in cop camp training. There's really is no way of knowing who came up with the talk on their own and is actually sincere about it when they all use the same script.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[smash]

Take a trip to Germany, and hire a car. Drive to a few countries.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Like I said in another post, our department has an honor code that says we hold ourselves to the same standards to which we hold the general public. I can't speak for other departments in the state.

I honestly do have mixed feelings about the tags. I am certain many people do buy them because they think it will get them out of tickets. I'm also certain that many people buy them to support their local public servants and think it really does help (although we see very little if any money from them).

If you really want to help, just go to your local fire or rescue station and give them 20 bucks. Fire/Rescue is ALWAYS hurting for cash. Police departments in general are swimming in federal funds.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[EmagGeek]

I got pulled over for 87/70 in SC a few years ago and the cop was perfectly professional and didn't even lecture me or anything. Fine was $100 with 2 points.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and yes.

However, it is not against the law in SC for a police officer on duty and performing traffic patrol to exceed the speed limit without lights and/or siren. See 56-5-760(c)(1) of the South Carolina code.

======

(C) The exemptions in this section granted to an authorized emergency vehicle apply only when the vehicle is making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4970 and visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4700 of this chapter, except that an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not use an audible signal nor display a visual signal when the vehicle is being used to:

(1) obtain evidence of a speeding violation;

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[drinkypoo]

But here's the thing. You have to post anonymously because if you actually do things by the book, other cops will attack you. You're grossly in the minority.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[drinkypoo]

However, it is not against the law in SC for a police officer on duty and performing traffic patrol to exceed the speed limit without lights and/or siren.

In specific circumstances, yes. Not all the time. Hence (1) in your citation.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Kohath]

I don't get tickets because I don't go fast. I don't get raped either, because I don't dress up like a slut and hang out in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But what kind of person sits by the side of the road waiting to ambush people and take their money? Honest people don't do things like that.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Kohath]

You seem to think "rule of law" means every action or inaction in every second of everyone's day needs to be ruled by a law. That's not what it means. A free person rules himself. "Rules of law" means the people in the government have to follow the law.

You really seem hellbent to justify ambushing travelers and taking their money -- even though everyone knows that's not the behavior of an honest person. You don't have to go crazy trying to defend robbing travelers, just stop doing it. Find something honest to do with your time. Maybe try helping people rather than taking their money.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa, hold on there.

The guy is saying "I do my job." And you are calling him every name in the book, like he personally wronged you? What the hell?!?!?

Do you know what the solution is here? CHANGE THE FUCKING LAWS. LAWS ARE MEANT TO BE ENFORCED. EVERY. TIME. If a law is callously unfair, it should be repealed or modified to grant special exemptions when they are agreeable. I don't get pissed off when I get a ticket for speeding. I get incredibly pissed off at the idea that some dirty cop will let some power-lusty douchebag local bigwig type off of a ticket due to an implicit (or explicit) quid pro quo.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

Your entire line of reasoning depends on the false premise that you somehow have a right to operate a motor vehicle upon the public roadways, which you don't. By obtaining a driver's license, you agree to obey the rules of the road. If you break the rules, you can be penalized.

When you drive in a way that puts other travelers at risk, I can stop you. You can do whatever you like on the road so long as it is within the rules you agreed to follow. You can even operate beyond those rules a little bit and chances are I will look the other way as long as you are not being stupid, or I will stop you and generate some paperwork.

Also, "rule of law" also applies to you, whether you like it or not. You must follow the law like everyone else must follow the law.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Anonymous Coward]

So, how many tickets have been issued to cops for illegal turns (no signals, running the red, etc)? I often see the police doing the same thing they ticket others for doing.

The police in my city never use turn signals. They often don't stop for stop signs or wait their turn. It's disgusting.

Re:We have those in South Carolina too

[Kohath]

Again, lots of pointless talk about "rights" and "licensing" and "rules" to justify ambushing and robbing travelers. Why justify it? Just stop ambushing and robbing travelers.

If mobsters were setup along the road, stopping travelers and taking their money under implied threats, it would be wrong. Not just illegal, but actually morally wrong. Even if they only took $100 from each. Even if they only stopped people going fast. Even if they had "rules" for who was stopped. Even if they said they were only targeting people doing risky things. Even if they told you you "agreed" to this by coming on their turf. Fortunately, we don't have mobsters doing that. Unfortunately, we have an even more powerful organization doing essentially the same thing.

Mobsters don't care about right and wrong. They just want to get paid. How about you?

Been that way a long time...

[Anonymous Coward]

Heard this one for decades now... if you have a "PBA" sticker (Police Benevolent Assoc.) you stand a better chance of getting off - same thing, they support killed/injured cops and their families, etc. It's not anything new, just sounds fancier with the plate frame and metal card.

We've already established what they are

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder what color Polanski's license plates were.

Stopping a billionaire's car

[WillAffleckUW]

The problem is simple.

Unlike in Sweden or Norway, where your ticket depends on your income, the fine is a small amount to a billionaire.

And that billionaire will make the arresting cop's life miserable and throw lawyers at the "case" like confetti.

It takes a brave police officer to stand up to pressure like that, high risk, low reward, no chance of promotion or contract work ever after you're blacklisted for off-duty security work on all the top tech campus and party locations.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not that simple. That may solve the problem for those that have money, but what about those that don't have any at all? No, fines are a terrible practice all together. The only time a fine makes sense is if there is a direct recoupment of cost, and a generalized civil procedure would cost to much in the way of overhead, so streamlining it to a fine in very specific cases would make sense (e.g. whenever someone takes an unnecessary risk and a helicopter rescue is required, and it is known that the cost is always $15k for a rescue, a $15k fine may make sense).

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[WillAffleckUW]

But $15,000 is pocket change if you're a billionaire.

Your tires probably cost more than that.

And so do your shoes.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Sentrion]

It might help if judges or sheriffs were appointed by elected officials and not elected directly. The wealthiest family in a small town can hold a lot of sway when they are the financiers of all the local politicians. Same can be said of the wealthiest corporations running our country.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

No one has $15K tires on car driven on the street. I'm sure you could get some boot licker to diamond-encrust tires or something, but there simply aren't tires that cost anywhere close to that much outside of commercial/agricultural (earth mover, tractor, whatever) tires. And even then, you're getting tires that your car probably can't turn over if you're spending that kind of money.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[cycler]

Correction, Sweden's fines are fixed.

Only if you sped too much over the limit and you are charged with "reckless driving" (and convicted), you will get a fine based on your income.

So for "Normal speeding", no.

/C

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[WillAffleckUW]

Who do you think elects those officials? Ask SCOTUS - Billionaires do.

We're all peons in an Oligarchic Feudal system pretending to be a Democracy.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[WillAffleckUW]

Correction, Sweden's fines are fixed.

Only if you sped too much over the limit and you are charged with "reckless driving" (and convicted), you will get a fine based on your income.

So for "Normal speeding", no.

/C

What is the conviction rate for rich people compared to the conviction rate for poor people in the US?

That's the number we need to be concerned with.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[BitZtream]

All it takes is 3 or 4 speeding tickets in pretty much any state and you won't have a valid license, then the next ticket is typically an arrest ... Some states allow more but not many and not much.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey now, if some Icelandic Strongman can flip those tires over, I'm sure my car could as well, though I would need some chains to do it.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, it would only take about 2% of the population to really swing the vote. I'm pretty sure, though, that the billionares are buying the other 98%. You're a fucking retard.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[tompaulco]

All it takes is 3 or 4 speeding tickets in pretty much any state and you won't have a valid license, then the next ticket is typically an arrest ... Some states allow more but not many and not much.

That's true. You're much better off getting drunk and running down pedestrians. They'll let you keep your license until you've mowed down at least a dozen and then won't throw you in jail until you've mowed down a dozen more.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[rhodium_mir]

The tires on the (street legal) Bugatti Veyron cost $38k for a set.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[daverk]

Bugatti Veyron Super Sport has $42K Tires.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, no? At least in California you lose your license for a DUI. I knew a couple of people in college that got them and I had to drive them around.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

Finland and Sweden are often confused to each other cross the pond. Additionally, there is the minimum amount of $160 fine in any case.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[BitterOak]

The problem is simple.

Unlike in Sweden or Norway, where your ticket depends on your income, the fine is a small amount to a billionaire.

How can the ticket depend on income? How do they know how much you're making? Do they look at your tax return? What if you're a tourist from America or somewhere? They don't file tax returns with the Swedish government, so how do they know how much to charge?

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

Sweden is the one next to Australia.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

The wheels themselves are also about $12k a pop, and they're only warranted for four tire mountings, to retain the trueness required to operate at top speed. Supposing you were able to find enough room to get it up to top speed and keep it there, the tires will only last about 15 minutes. But you'll run out of gas in 12.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Dahamma]

How can the ticket depend on income? How do they know how much you're making? Do they look at your tax return? What if you're a tourist from America or somewhere? They don't file tax returns with the Swedish government, so how do they know how much to charge?

Actually, as is usual on the Internet, there is some truth and some bullshit in that post.

The sensational examples were a Swedish billionaire speeding in Finland (Sweden does not actually have this crazy fine), and if you are a billionaire, yes, people know how much you are worth. The other example was another billionaire driving *185 mph* on a speed controlled road in Switzerland, which pretty much anywhere in the Western world will get you imprisoned, at which point they are fairly free to make even a rich person miserable until he pays up.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Finland that is indeed known for that and as a Finn, I don't consider it crazy at all - especially if you know how it works. If you're caught speeding, the police have some discretion in how many "daily fines" (that's the term for it) to issue you (IIRC the upper limit is 30) and such a daily fine is all your income the previous year (regardless of whether it was from work, investments, whatever) divided by 365. I consider that very fair since the wealthier people are, the more sources their wealth comes from and it's simple enough not to result in extreme bureaucracy (even though some of us joke after some successful investments that we'd better watch our speed the following year). I also consider it extremely fair if you think about what sort of punishment a fine is - it's in a sense time taken away from you (just like prison for more severe offenses but that disrupts your life in other ways too). Time you spend working and would normally be compensated for is instead "not paid for" and hence "taken" from you. Furthermore, what many people don't know is that you can choose to instead of paying that fine go to part-time minimum security prison for that number of days divided by two. Part-time means that you are allowed to go to work normally but must spend your time outside working hours there. A teacher of mine said that he had chosen to do that just for the experience (it cannot really be much worse than a university dormitory). If you're really cunning, I guess you could 1. rent out your place whilst you're doing that and 2. request as much overtime as possible.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Dahamma]

It's Finland that is indeed known for that and as a Finn, I don't consider it crazy at all - especially if you know how it works

If you are doing 180mph in a 60mph (sorry, I'm American - that's like 300 in a 100 kph ;) I totally agree with you, in fact put them in jail as that would be a much more effective deterrent than money. But if you are doing 45kph in a 35kph you should not be paying a 6 figure (in any currency) fine no matter your income, that's just idiotic.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[BitZtream]

Yea, I've seen states where DUIs aren't treated that bad, I fail to understand it. It should be treated like attempted murder.

I wish there was a better way for cops to make FAIR calls on who should be spanked for driving drunk, something more objective than BAC. By the time I 'blow' over the limit, I'm fucking wasted. My wife on the other hand at least appears perfectly normal at the same level. I say appears because we haven't tried to drive at that point. We were part of a little demonstration the cops were doing when we were younger and we both knew better than to try. They gave us rides home, which was funny explaining to the neighbors.

Of course, I think most of America shouldn't be allowed to drive either, its messed up that here in NC, I've seen people get licenses for nothing more than showing up at the license office, seen the testers point at the CBT screen, point at the right answer and say 'is this the right one?' while nodding their head. I've only been licensed in Florida as well and its just as bad, though I didn't see them TELL someone the answers to the written test.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Lehk228]

the only good way to impliment that would be offering a BAC rating on your license, you go in for a series of judgement and reaction time tests while getting progressively drunker, the results of the test determine what your personal DUI limit is and you get a special endorsement on your license

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[j-beda]

It's Finland that is indeed known for that and as a Finn, I don't consider it crazy at all - especially if you know how it works

If you are doing 180mph in a 60mph (sorry, I'm American - that's like 300 in a 100 kph ;) I totally agree with you, in fact put them in jail as that would be a much more effective deterrent than money. But if you are doing 45kph in a 35kph you should not be paying a 6 figure (in any currency) fine no matter your income, that's just idiotic.

I don't know.

One (8 hour) day of work at minimum wage in the USA is 8 x $7.25 = $50. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M... so if some McWorker gets a speeding ticket, it seems likely it is going to cost him at least one day of income. Having everyone pay "one day of income" seems like a fair way of doing things, at least from one perspective. Sucks to be Bill Gates in that situation perhaps, but arguably it sucks much less for Bill to lose a day's wages than for our poor McWorker. Bill might feel sad, but McWorker might feel hungry.

Re:Stopping a billionaire's car

[Anonymous Coward]

There are varying triggers for the fines in various countries. Before that trigger value is reached, a police notice is issued instead of a fine. In Finland that is 9 km/h, in Sweden 6 and in France, there is a zero tolerance. That's probably ok for the French since they introduced the metric system.

Automation

[MichaelSmith]

This is what speed cameras are for.

Re:Automation

[reboot246]

Do you not think that the database would have those particular license plates listed so that no tickets would be issued?

That's my main objection to speed cameras, stop sign cameras, and red light cameras. I suspect that there is a list of politicians, city leaders, police officers, or friends of theirs who would never, ever get a ticket. The system knows which ones to ignore. The rest of us get the tickets.

Re:Automation

[MichaelSmith]

Do you not think that the database would have those particular license plates listed so that no tickets would be issued?

Depends on where you are I suppose. In my state I have worked with people who set these things up, and in an official capacity with our state road authority. I know these exceptions don't exist.

Re:Automation

[Sentrion]

Except that cops check those as well and make the final call on what is a violation and what is not. A few years back officers in Dallas were caught withholding tickets from friends and family.

Re:Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

You weren't working very closely with those people, then, if you think there isn't an exception list which includes things like legislative plates - where the holder of the plate really is immune to traffic tickets if "on the way to legislative session" or similar.

Re:Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you not think that the database would have those particular license plates listed so that no tickets would be issued?

Depends on where you are I suppose. In my state I have worked with people who set these things up, and in an official capacity with our state road authority. I know these exceptions don't exist.

Police departments, fire departments, state police, and hospitals must get thousands of tickets in the mail every day! How ever could they process them all?

Captcha: Rebuke

Re:Automation

[tompaulco]

This is what speed cameras are for.

And that is what the license plate for the Benevolent Order of Speed Cameras is for. To raise money for fallen speed cameras and to get out of speed camera tickets.

Re:Automation

[duke_cheetah2003]

The rest of us get the tickets.

The rest of us breaking the law get tickets.

Fixed that for ya.

Re:Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you not think that the database would have those particular license plates listed so that no tickets would be issued?

Depends on where you are I suppose. In my state I have worked with people who set these things up, and in an official capacity with our state road authority. I know these exceptions don't exist.

The people who talked to you were being disingenuous -- there's no list of who can't get tickets but there is a list of who can get tickets. Don't put cops in the DB and they don't get tickets. It's viewed as a "public safety" exception that the name + home address of LEOs be kept hidden from the people who process the tickets. With no name or address to put on the tickets, there is effectively no ticket issued.

Small stretch to see high officials weasel themselves out of the DB too.

Re:Automation

[jelizondo]

Sorry pal, maybe in Australia they issue tickets to police cars, fire-fighters' trucks and the like, but for the last four years I have been involved in automation for Police Departments and such lists exist.

Obviously, they are not named "don't issue a ticket to the whealty bastard," they are named "Official Vehicles" and many politicians get their "official" vehicles listed there including cars of whealty supporters.

Now, my very own experience. I don't work directly for any PD given that I am an outside contractor but some friend got me some decals for my windshield. Two days ago, by being distracted, I ran a red light while doing a U-turn while policemen were stationed at the intersection. One look at the decals and they assumed I am an undercover officer running after some bastard; they waved me on.

Even if they had made me stop, they would have to call Central to report the incident before issuing a ticket (SOP) and I would claim a "Code 3" (emergency) and my friends at Central would have supported me.

So you see, even if you are not a whealty bastard, you can get away with it if you know the right people.

Re:Automation

[stoploss]

This is what speed cameras are for.

And that is what the license plate for the Benevolent Order of Speed Cameras is for. To raise money for fallen speed cameras and to get out of speed camera tickets.

Yes, it's tragic. See the violence documented here (Warning: the site contains images of graphic violence against speed cameras. Viewer discretion advised)

Re:Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no 'h' in 'wealthy'

Re:Automation

[Dahamma]

Do you not think that the database would have those particular license plates listed so that no tickets would be issued?

No, of course they wouldn't. The whole point is that it's an off the record system, endorsed by the union and not the government. Once it's on the record there is a paper trail and instead of silly slashdot conspiracies you get federal indictments.

Re:Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

You use the term "bastard" referencing supposed criminals and supposed "whealty" (sic) people, but the only clear "bastard" from that story is you...

Re:Automation

[smash]

really? can you tell me the key you hit before Y?

Re:Automation

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize you are a legal absolutist, but the problem has been, and remains that the wealthy are abusing their power, corrupting the system, driving the law makers and law enforcers to behave is ways that are contrary to the public interest. The only definition of "breaking the law" in that situation is "pissed off the wrong person," which, I believe, is the current system in most of the world.

Re:Automation

[rhodie]

My understanding regarding speed cameras (and red light tickets, etc.) is that they are reviewed and signed off on by a police officer of that jurisdiction (sitting in front of a computer someplace), as citations need to be issued by an officer... Probably makes it even easier since they can just check a box saying "plate was too blurry" or some crap like that whenever they see whatever logo or type of plate they are lax about. Makes it easier to fake a plate and get out of it, but I'm sure that when you have the plate and get pulled over by the cop and can't produce the card that goes with it, or produce the name/phone number of the cop that gave you the PBA card, or whatever, that you're going to get it and get it HARD (seatbelt tickets and everything else they can make up) to make sure it's not worth it...

Re:Automation

[Apocryphos]

t?

Re:Automation

[Druegan]

Not everybody who gets ticketed was breaking the law. The vast majority simply don't challenge the officer in court for a variety of reasons. I've been ticketed for speeding before when I was not speeding at *all*. I was, however, driving out of state within 10 miles of the border leaving the state in question. I'd just been ticketed 10 minutes before by a different Arkansas State Police Officer in a zone where I was the only out-of-state license plate in traffic that was passing *me* left and right.

Sometimes, Cops are just abusive scumbags.

Hell, the town of New Rome, Ohio was so bad at writing false tickets that a guy ran for mayor on the promise of dissolving the municipality and firing the police force. He won, and he did exactly that. It was one of the worst speed traps in the nation for years. It was so bad that anybody who actually challenged the ticket in court got it dismissed out of hand, and the State Police would actually run off the New Rome cops if they happened to see them pull someone over.

I lived 10 miles away in another small town for about 2 years and got to watch the whole drama unfold.

Just because the police *say* you are breaking a law doesn't mean you actually *are*.

Re:Automation

[duke_cheetah2003]

I realize you are a legal absolutist, but the problem has been, and remains that the wealthy are abusing their power, corrupting the system, driving the law makers and law enforcers to behave is ways that are contrary to the public interest. The only definition of "breaking the law" in that situation is "pissed off the wrong person," which, I believe, is the current system in most of the world.

Sounds like everything is working just as it has for all of recorded history. Was there a point?

Masons, too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Brother-in-law is a Mason and has little Masonic stickers on his car and motorbike, as well as wearing the Masonic ring. In the part of the country he's from, it helps.

Re:Masons, too.

[rmdingler]

I see you're a traveling man, said the patrolman who pulled my friend and I over in his father's "Mason-marked" truck in Mississippi, You boys go ahead on.

C'mon!

[briancox2]

Look the other way here, please. California is a key source for organ donations.

As the Chinese like to say, "Don't break your brother's rice bowl."

Re:C'mon!

[BitZtream]

When your body goes through a high speed accident that kills, many times the organs are too damaged to be used.

Re:C'mon!

[guevera]

Actually, Cali has one of if not the lowest rates of donation in the country.

Re:The law is for the little people

[Ralph Wiggam]

I'm sure that seemed like a stinging political commentary in your head.

Re:The law is for the little people

[Sentrion]

As a middle-class American I don't see either the Democrats or the Republicans doing anything for average American families. Or should I only care about the welfare of the "little people" until I become one myself?

Re:The law is for the little people

[bob_super]

That's a dumb comment for the 2014 US, because it's like money equaling free speech.
You are free to spend up to $10k to be above the law, in the same way that you are free to spend millions to get your favorite congressman elected.

Don't blame the rich for doing something advantageous, blame the idiotic "little people" for not participating too.
Thanks to living in the Land Of The Free, they are allowed to!

I hope so

[Anonymous Coward]

Because if I ever have the money to spare (and the car...) I'd buy one in an instant. California is full of nice, sunny, mostly empty roads that would be fantastic to run about a hundred miles an hour on, and perfectly safe considering the 3+ lane wide freeways free of traffic. But the speed limits are always stupidly low (no one follows them given the chance) and yet the CHP loves being around the corner, even in totally backwoods and out of the way areas.

In Illinois...

[mishehu]

there is the Fraternal Brotherhood of Police, which would give out stickers to place in your back window. Rumor was that it would cause police throughout the state to be more... forgiving... in the cases of traffic violations.

Re:In Illinois...

[BitZtream]

I've not gotten a ticket since I put mine on, after watching how my dad suddenly stopped getting tickets when he bought one of the stickers ... sorry, donated to the order ... mind you, my dad deserved the tickets.

Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

Similarly, it's been known for years in San Diego County that a $5000 donation to the Sheriff's election fund will get you a concealed weapon permit, should you want one. The folks that are delusional are those that believe that the United States is less corrupt than any other society. They are all a reflection of humans, who are inherently flawed.

Re:Nothing new here

[tompaulco]

The folks that are delusional are those that believe that the United States is less corrupt than any other society.

I have visited several other societies and I can tell you that the United States is absolutely less corrupt than any other society that I have visited. Of course, I have only witnessed a few: Several Central American Countries, France, South Korea, India, China.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

It's worth noting, that you cannot actually measure corruption, it is ONLY about the perception of things.

I live in a country that that is somewhere in the middle of Corruption Perceptions Index (http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/). While it's commonly told by older generations (and thus the ratings are improving every year - just because older generations are like... dying) that you can solve anything with right amount of cash (because "only fish doesn't take") right now "true" corruption is on very low level. Computerization, globalization and security surveillance has made it virtually impossible to take part in such activities.

The level of control is so tight, that when I was hiring my friend who was working full-time as homicide detective I HAD to make paperwork 3 months prior so he could get written permission to take part of it (sic!).

On the other hand in MY perception, such actions like described in article ARE sign of corruption and WOULD be prosecuted where I live. Also - as stated in the article - it's absolutely OK for people since 90's (since it's working it must be legal, right?), effectively reducing the index, but not the deed itself.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

The folks that are delusional are those that believe that the United States is less corrupt than any other society.

I have visited several other societies and I can tell you that the United States is absolutely less corrupt than any other society that I have visited. Of course, I have only witnessed a few: Several Central American Countries, France, South Korea, India, China.

The American rich have legalized a lot of what is called corruption in many of the nations mentioned.

Re:Nothing new here

[psymastr]

The folks that are delusional are those that believe that the United States is less corrupt than any other society.

I have visited several other societies and I can tell you that the United States is absolutely less corrupt than any other society that I have visited. Of course, I have only witnessed a few: Several Central American Countries, France, South Korea, India, China.

I wouldn't say it is less corrupt; the impression you describe is mostly due to the fact that the US has legalized most forms of corruption under the guise of either "lobbying" or "private contributions to the political parties".

Re:Nothing new here

[Rich0]

From what I've read I think a difference is that in the US corruption really only comes up outside of normal day-to-day business. If you want to change a law, or avoid speeding tickets, and so on, then you might need to pay bribes (and a LOT of them for a long time depending on the law). However, if you just want to get your car registration renewed or import goods at the border you only pay the advertised fees which go to the government and not the agents.

In a lot of smaller/poorer countries the average person is much more likely to encounter corruption. If you're a small business and you need to import goods to sell, then either they sit at the dock for a month rotting due to paperwork delays, or you slip the agent some money and they fly through the border. Routine government operations don't happen unless you pay the person doing the work a little extra.

So, I wouldn't hold the US up as an example of moral purity. I think the main difference is that most US government workers don't get the discretion to collect tips for performing their duties.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

Brit expat in Massachusetts here. Absolutely the most corrupt place I've lived in: including Manhattan and Malaysia.

The corruption takes the form of mutual or coerced back-scratching rather than brown envelopes full of cash:
want a liquor license for your new restaurant? You have to engage the legal services of the brother-in-law of a local councilman.

The Clinton administration turned it into an art form at the Federal level. Pitofsky and Klein (at the FTC & DOJ) would be used to shake down any companies involved in mergers and acquisitions. There would be "troubling concentration in the super-premium ice-cream market" until the right lobbyists were hired and the right donations made.

The problem with this form of corruption is that it tends to be very, very inefficient. Billions of dollars of economic damage can be done to extort millions of dollars of "contributions". The Asian bribery model is far more straightforward.

Re:Nothing new here

[trawg]

I have visited several other societies and I can tell you that the United States is absolutely less corrupt than any other society that I have visited. Of course, I have only witnessed a few: Several Central American Countries, France, South Korea, India, China.

I always find it funny how often this is a (modded-up) defence to claims of corruption in Western society (generally the USA on Slashdot, but you'll see it almost everywhere else).

It doesn't mean that that you should stop striving to eliminate what corruption you do have. Or highlighting it at every opportunity and saying "that's wrong".

From the perspective of an outsider (Australian), the US increasingly looks like it's becoming an oligarchy where money is the only thing that matters. If this story were true it is a sad state of affairs.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

"Less corrupt" is like "less sewage in the drinking water". It doesn't take much to be toxic.

Re:Nothing new here

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been in 31 countries (mostly third world) and can tell you that the corruption is only different.

Re:Nothing new here

[deodiaus2]

Yes, you can bribe an cop in Mexico for $1000. However, in the US, the lawyer fees are $100K+. For that kind of money, you will tap into the lawyer's network of friends and acquaintances and somehow everyone owes someone a favor or at least favoritism. You might not win the case, but every dollar you spend is to buy yourself a bit of better odds. On the surface, it is all legal, but there is an implicit understanding that these people (in the legal system) work together. Just go and visit a town with a population of Call it irony, but for most laws, there are laws for "conspiracy". To be convicted of conspiring, a lawyer has to show not that the offenders knew of each others actions, but rather that they acted in a fashion that was consistent with having the same goals and purpose. The legal profession is filled with lots of laws. It is only a matter of selective enforcement as to who is charged with which ones and to what extent.
A well established friend of ours son was picked up for smoking weed in public. The cops brought him to his father's house where the father made a scene in front of the cops, so I guess that was as good as "sending him to jail," which they didn't do. I guess if he were black, then that would have been done automatically even by black cops who want to appear to be doing their job.
We should celebrate our more sophisticated system. We have the best form of government that money can buy.

Patternicity

[Sarten-X]

Around here, it's supposedly the FOP badges and/or stickers that help. Or it's the parking lot stickers for the local hospitals. Or it's the toll road transponders. Or it's being the next-to-last person in a cluster. Or it's being in the left lane. Or it's matching speed with the other speeders around you.

It's just like gambling. Everyone has their system that they think works, and nobody's ever done research to actually check if the statistics hold. Somebody sees a pattern and they think it's just so good that it must be right.

Re:Patternicity

[rmdingler]

Pattern recognition is an interesting way to put it.

We are predisposed to pattern recognition. Selection also likely accounts for the fortunate ones... whose patterns of recognition proved causal rather than corollary, such as this leaf cures that malady.

Luck plays a role in any contest. Including life.

Re:Patternicity

[Fnord666]

Pattern recognition is an interesting way to put it.

We are predisposed to pattern recognition. Selection also likely accounts for the fortunate ones... whose patterns of recognition proved causal rather than corollary, such as this leaf cures that malady.

Don't forget a healthy sprinkling of confirmation bias on top.

Re:Patternicity

[Maxo-Texas]

Still, we do gain herd immunity from social media speed programs like Waze and Trapster (which no longer works on my ancient 2 year old phone- boo!).

First, you get reports of where speed traps are repeatedly.
Second, you get live reports of where the police are.
Third, if you don't have it running and 60% of the drivers around you suddenly slow from 85 to 65, you slow down with them, pass the cops 3 miles later, and then speed up 1 mile past the cops.

AZ License plates

[knarfling]

There is a reason for all the different colors of license plates. You used to be able to say that you could tell the changing seasons by the changing colors ... of the license plates. There are so many out-of-state visitors during the winter that it used to be easy to tell the snowbirds from the residents.
Probably someone decided that the snowbirds were either getting picked on or getting preferential treatment, so lots of colors of AZ plates were made. As a bonus, more money comes in!!

Did you know that AZ has very short winters? Last year it was on a Tuesday.

Re:AZ License plates

[mythosaz]

Heh.

It's not much of a secret what time of the year the Canadian and Minnesotan license plates show up. They can invariably be found in the left lane on I-10 going roughly the speed limit -- or as we like to call it here, "the minimum speed for the slow lane."

Re:AZ License plates

[knarfling]

The goal in AZ is to match your speed with the number of the freeway. On the I-10 and the I-17 it slows things down to a crawl. The 51 and the 60 are a bit more challenging, especially in rush-hour. But with the 101, the 202 and the 303, you better have those "honoring fallen officers" plates attached.

Re:AZ License plates

[rogoshen1]

makes leaving arizona rather hard.. since you find yourself screaming at other motorists "WHY ARE YOU ONLY DRIVING 55!" (in a 55 zone)

Re:AZ License plates

[richtopia]

With Intel fabs in Oregon (slowest state by far) and Arizona (one of the faster states), you feel the difference when traveling for work.

Re:AZ License plates

[Entropius]

Arizona summers are glorious for precisely this reason. No damned snowbirds.

Re:AZ License plates

[doccus]

Did you know that AZ has very short winters? Last year it was on a Tuesday.

Hah! Our winter was on a Sunday, when nobody noticed or had to go to their 9-5 weekday job (sorry macronny's flunkies, no relief there)

Re:AZ License plates

[Anonymous Coward]

But in CA, you have the 405

Re:AZ License plates

[Ol Olsoc]

Hey, it's the people YOU elected, who are presumably doing what you elected to do.

Frames are for losers

[wiredlogic]

Saint Jobs just drove around without a license plate.

Re:Frames are for losers

[mschuyler]

But it was legal because his cars were never more than 6 months old.

Re:Frames are for losers

[Anubis IV]

It's true. There was some obscure set of laws that, when put together, allowed him to get away with it because he was constantly procuring a new lease every few months for a new car.

Talk about taking minimalistic approaches a bit too far.

Re:Frames are for losers

[Anonymous Coward]

What about parking in handicapped parking spaces?

Re:Frames are for losers

[Anonymous Coward]

It's still illegal. For new cars that don't have a plate you are required to display a CA registration card in your rear window that expires in a couple of months. How do I know that? I live in CA and bought a car. It's the law.

Jobs didn't have a plate or a registration card in his window, which makes him a scofflaw. That's just part of who he was. Deal with it.

Re:Frames are for losers

[Anonymous Coward]

California is unusual, I think, because the state doesn't require a car to have a temporary cardboard license plate in the absence of the permanent metal one. And, apparently, they allow(ed) a generous 6mo for the permanent plate to arrive in the mail.

Re:Frames are for losers

[Anubis IV]

What about it? As far as I can tell, it's a non sequitur. The one has nothing to do with the other, aside from the fact that they were both car-related things that Steve Jobs is known for. I'm not going to defend everything the guy did or suggest it was all legal (far from it!). I'm merely agreeing with something I once heard reported that I thought was an interesting factoid.

PORAC

[Nexion]

You also might want to donate yearly to PORAC. They have this nice little sticker they send you that has had truly amazing results for me in the past. I think my favorite was when a CHP officer rolls up next to me, gets on his PA and says "The speed laws are for everyone." Not that it always got me out of tickets. Sometimes I would get a ticket for the posted speed limit plus five mph and a plus sign next to it. You just go ahead and pay that by writing in a plea of "Guilty/Traffic School".

Then I would do online traffic school where all you really end up doing is taking the standard written drivers test again. I think they closed that hole. I once did traffic school three times in one year. I laughed because right after that my insurance company wrote me a letter telling me that I was entitled to a "good driver's discount".

I'm not really extremely wealthy or anything, but I think I may just get one of these bronze hookups for my RX8. :)

Never drive like a complete maniac however. Police are not tolerant of reckless no matter how much money you throw at their orgs.

Re:PORAC

[Nexion]

Calm down now peasant, don't hate. ;)

Re:PORAC

[drinkypoo]

Then I would do online traffic school where all you really end up doing is taking the standard written drivers test again. I think they closed that hole. I once did traffic school three times in one year. I laughed because right after that my insurance company wrote me a letter telling me that I was entitled to a "good driver's discount".

Now the rate of recurrence is 12-18 months. You can still use this method, but not as frequently.

Re:PORAC

[Entropius]

So, in other words:

--if you drive dangerously you get a ticket no matter what, because you're actually jeopardizing public safety
--otherwise, you have to pay the police even though you're driving safely, unless you already paid them

Re:PORAC

[Nexion]

More like you get a buffer of 5 - 7 mph by default. Purchasing either the PORAC sticker or this plate border broadens this buffer to a degree that depends on the officer. Doing 80 in a 25 as you blow by a school bus dropping off kids will likely get you arrested no matter to what special interest organization you give a donation.

If you did something like that you would deserve it too.

confirmation of the conspiracy

[frovingslosh]

'Unless you have the I.D. in hand when (not if) I stop you,' says one cop, 'no love will be shown.'

It is a shame that they didn't name that cop. This is pretty much confirmation that everything accused is going on. Goes on in other states too, often with metal "Sheriff's Association Donor" badges that are attached to cars. What a shock that there is little respect for law enforcement any more.

Re:confirmation of the conspiracy

[Anonymous Coward]

" It is a shame that they didn't name that cop."

No.

If you name your informants you won't get any more informants.

Re:confirmation of the conspiracy

[frovingslosh]

If someone confesses to a crime they should be treated as a criminal, not as an "informant".

Channeling P. Walker, I presume...

[rmdingler]

It is that kind of thinking right there that pretty much guarantees there will be no F&F nine and ten.

Too bad you can't afford it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Poor people who can't afford to piss away that kind of cash are the only ones who are going to get snotty about it... they also don't understand how the real world works.

In the real world, if you get a ticket: You hire an attorney for $100 (I work for such an attorney), pay the ticketed fine to the courts and the rest of the ticket goes away. It's turned into a parking violation (no points, no insurance, no nothing). There is a batch processing system @ the courts to specifically deal with people who hire recognized law firms.

In other words, you don't need to pay $5K to get out of your ticket, just hire an attorney pay the $100 + fine (like $300 total in CA) and stop fuckin' whining.

-AC

Re:Too bad you can't afford it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why pay an attorney? A letter to the DA is under a buck and works just as well, reduced fine and no points. Last time I got a ticket it was for rear ending another vehicle, my insurance went down after that thanks to an almost free letter to the DA.

Forget licking their boots

[russotto]

Get a "Bad Cop/No Donut" bumper sticker, a LOT of cameras, drive the speed limit, and enjoy the eventual civil rights lawsuit.

Re:Forget licking their boots

[faedle]

.. or the beating and civil wiretapping lawsuit for the cameras.

Re:Forget licking their boots

[Lehk228]

"Cops Suck Fat Dicks"

Re:Forget licking their boots

[Anonymous Coward]

Criminal wiretapping charge in some states

Re:Forget licking their boots

[Entropius]

SCOTUS has ruled that in all states it is legal to record police in a public place, no?

all this said. . .

[jafac]

I have to say that among most of the states in which I've driven, California cops seem to be the most lenient. And by that, I mean; California has some high-limit roads... 70, 75. Actual average speeds are more like 80-85 on these highways. Some other states seem to be stuck at 55 for most roads, and their cops seem to be real assholes about driving more than 5 over. (specifically, Utah, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, where I've either been a driver or passenger in a car getting pulled over).

Time for class action suit against California

[JoeyRox]

If it can be proven that owners of these plates were given leniency against speeding and moving violations then every person who has ever received a ticket in California during this class period should be able to sue to recover their costs for ticket fines.

So what the pig is telling me...

[guevera]

....is that I need to start forging the ID cards, too. Cool. I'm on it.

Member ID

[PPH]

But wait â" the CHP 11-99 Foundation also gives out membership cards to big donors. 'Unless you have the I.D. in hand when (not if) I stop you,' says one cop, 'no love will be shown.'"

On the other hand, if you have a US DoJ ID and the cop says, "No 11-99 ID, no leniency", he goes to Club Fed and the rest of the department goes under investigation for corruption.

I'm amazed anyone from the CHP was stupid enough to make the above statement.

Meh, more of the same

[50000BTU_barbecue]

In Montreal we had the VIP parking sticker fiasco. The roads here are too cracked and broken for anyone to speed on them, so instead, we had special stickers so people could park for free.

fuckoff beta

[Anonymous Coward]

yes yougoaway

European driver license allows infinit speed

[viking80]

Here in Germany, I can just use my driver license, and pay no bribes. When you enter the freeway, it is a nice sign with only 3 diagonal gray bars. The sign means "no rules". I go 160mph every day.

Re:European driver license allows infinit speed

[JustNiz]

Yeah autobahns are cool but am I right in thinking that German car insurance has clauses that it becomes invalid over about 90mph?
When I worked in Bavaria some years ago I was told yes you can drive at 100+mph but if you have an accident it could financially ruin your life as at that speed its out of your pocket.

Re:European driver license allows infinit speed

[KozmoStevnNaut]

The unrestricted parts of the autobahn have a advisory speed limit of 130km/h. If you are involved in an accident while travelling faster than that, it greatly increases your risk of being found at fault, depending on how fast your were going.

Going 200+km/h (125mph) basically guarantees that you will be found 100% at fault.

Re:European driver license allows infinit speed

[Entropius]

Please send your German police to the US so they can teach the Americans how to fund police departments without allowing them to engage in highway robbery like they currently do.

Re:European driver license allows infinit speed

[Anonymous Coward]

"No rules" is quite the overly-simplistic way of putting it. As I understand it the rules are extremely strict, it's just that *speed* is left open.

Laws are for the little people

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone is entitled to the justice they can afford.

Failed in Tranna

[davecb]

Toronto police union tried this, but got shut down within weeks.

Better alternative system

[FuzzNugget]

I know I've read about other countries that do this, and it makes a lot of sense: assess speeding fines according to the driver's income.

The information is readily available via the federal tax agency. People of lesser means are not fined up to what can be several months of income (in some places) and it actually has an effect on wealthy offenders. Rich buggers with Ferraris and Lambos will pay tens of thousands, creating a similar effect on funding without the corruption (or, at least, less)

But that's waaaay too sensible for North America. No, we like our good 'old boy, corrupted crony system.

Re:Better alternative system

[dk20]

"rich" people don't have income.... They do fancy things like take out loans against their stock options and a loan is debt, not income.

LEO Friends & Family DMV Annotation

[Anonymous Coward]

License plate is nothing. In California if you're a law enforcement officer, family member, or work in the LEO community (say, you work for a police union), you can actually get your DMV database record annotated. Then when cops run your plate they see it flagged and will let you go as long as you weren't being too stupid. You also get a sticker to put on your driver's license.

Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[mark-t]

Been driving for nearly 30 years now and haven't yet encountered a situation that I sincerely felt warranted driving in excess of the limit. I've accidentally gone over the limit on occasion, of course, but I'll usually be driving exactly on it, unless road conditions are bad enough that driving slower is warranted. I also keep lane changes to a minimum, finding whatever lane that I need to be in at the earliest opportunity for me to safely do so, and staying in it until I need to turn.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Been driving for nearly 30 years now and haven't yet encountered a situation that I sincerely felt warranted driving in excess of the limit.

Get the #%@& out of the fast lane!

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[mark-t]

I'll be in whichever lane I need to be in to get where i need to go. I also drive the speed limit... I'm not going to feel even slightly responsible for making you angry just because you might want to speed but are stuck behind me. Feel free to circumnavigate my vehicle if you want to speed. I don't.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[Entropius]

In some places you will get a fine for forcing people to pass you on the right -- if you're one of those legalistic rulebook-humpers that shows up in any slashdot thread about driving you might keep that in mind.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[mark-t]

I've never so much as received any warning for driving the speed limit when others all around me are speeding heavily. I am unconcerned about the alleged possibility of it happening.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[CountZer0]

Slow traffic, keep right.

If you are going slower than the rest of traffic and you aren't in the right-hand lane, you are in violation of traffic laws.

I hope you never ever change lanes without signalling, and never change lanes in an intersection (especially while turning).

Fact is, most speed limits aren't set for safety, but instead to maximize revenue for the local government. We the people have almost no say in this either. The speed limits aren't voted on, but simply decided by bureaucratic process with no transparency.

In fact, states were 'encouraged' to adopt a maximum speed limit of 65 by the Federal Government, which refused matching funds for highways if a state didn't lower the limit. Again, nothing to do with safety or actual road conditions, but simply a hidden tax on society that we have no say in.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[mark-t]

I don't go slow. I go the speed limit... and I will usually be in whichever lane I need to be in to get where I need to go. Whether that's the left lane or the right, barring unusual traffic conditions which may necessitate that I move into a different lane, depends on which way I'm going to ultimately have to turn when I turn off of the road I'm on. Pretty much every time I ever mention this subject on slashdot, somebody invariably brings up this left lane issue, but as I've said, I've been driving for nearly 30 years now and honestly, I'm not remotely worried that I'll ever receive a ticket for going the posted limit in the left lane just because there may be a lot of people all around me who want to speed.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[j-beda]

If you are driving at the posted speed limit, you are in no way "forcing people to pass you on the right". If you are not following signs to "keep right except to pass" then you are subject to a ticket for that behaviour, regardless of your speed.

Re:Or you can... you know... just not speed.

[mark-t]

I decided to double-check that point on a government web site, and in fact, all "slower traffic keep right" signs mean is that the road is expected to accomodate a variety of vehicles which may be moving at various speeds (and of course, by law, all of them should be at or below the posted limit), and where the inner lanes are reserved exclusively for vehicles that are travelling at or very near the posted speed limit, other vehicles which may need to travel more slowly are advised to use the outside lane. Slow moving vehicles travelling below the posted limit are forbidden from using the left lane except where it is necessary for a left turn, but under no circumstances is a vehicle going the posted limit prohibited from using the lane, even if other vehicles around them are speeding.

"Keep right except to pass" is another sign which only occurs where an auxiliary lane has been added to a highway for passing purposes only. Usually, the roadway expands in width, with the lane markings shifting the existing lanes slightly to the right, making room for a new lane on the left, similar to what you mgiht find near an intersection having a dedicated left-turning lane All lanes to the right of this new lane are permitted for regular driving, however. The auxiliarly lane is usually of limited length, and the purpose of the sign is to caution drivers who might otherwise expect to be able to utilize the additional lane for regular cruising.

execute any cop involved in these favors

[Anonymous Coward]

kill the donors and redistribute their wealth as a penalty for being so greedy and dumb with unearned money. problem solved.

There are other ways...

[Anonymous Coward]

A while back I was watching some Gumball Rally footage and wondering how those guys could get so many tickets. The trick is get your driver's license in a state that doesn't belong to the Driver License Compact and get a surety bond for insurance. Then you just have to be able to afford to pay the tickets.

naahh. what you want is the "brass pass"

[Anonymous Coward]

i.e. flash your badge..
Or, have your policeman son's business card taped to the back of your driver's license (in case of emergency, call...)

By and large, it's all about the "rude rule". be rude, get a ticket for sure; be nice, maybe get a warning; depends on alignment of the stars, etc. Drive >100 mi/hr, you'd better be an ob on the way to deliver a baby

Confession of corruption?

[jcr]

'Unless you have the I.D. in hand when (not if) I stop you,' says one cop, 'no love will be shown.'"

Seems to me that this cop has just admitted that he does in fact practice selective enforcement.

-jcr

Re:Confession of corruption?

[drinkypoo]

Seems to me that this cop has just admitted that he does in fact practice selective enforcement.

Our legal system is designed for selective enforcement. That's why it doesn't require cops to make arrests. If it was designed to be fair, it would require an arrest when the law is violated. That would at least concentrate corruption in the courts.

Re:Confession of corruption?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here in NC we have a DMV Selective Enforcement Division!

Re:The law is for the little people

[triclipse]

Ummm ... "middle class" = "little people' ... did you think otherwise?

Re:The law is for the little people

[Pfhorrest]

Yes, the little people are idiots for not spending the money they'd otherwise waste on things like food and rent on buying themselves privileged treatment. Because that's totally a choice they are stupidly making and not an economic necessity.

lol

[smash]

originally posted on another forum in 2006, it is now 2014. way to go, Slashdot!

Not a real country anymore?

[DMJC]

So America isn't a real country anymore. Frankly, this sort of behaviour is what Banana republics do. Money = above the law is how Russia works, it's how China works. It's not how real countries work. Lift your game America, light on the hill my ass.

The CHP Serves the Political Elites, Not the Citiz

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never been issued a warning, the CHP always writes me the ticket. I never argue and always try to say as little as possible while remaining polite and calm but it doesn't seem to matter. In my twenty five years of driving in California I've never had a single positive interaction with the CHP and they never seem to be around when somebody actually does need a ticket. I've been hit several times by idiot drivers and totaled out my vehicle twice. If the CHP is supposed to be protecting my safety on California highways then I say they're doing a pretty crappy job of it. I think that on balance I'd rather they were just disbanded for all the good they do me which is to say not very much because in my opinion they're corrupt, they don't care about my safety and they do the bidding of the politically powerful and well connected in this state against the interests of the ordinary citizens. I'd rather carry my own weapons and take my chances than rely upon their "protection".

Is this a "Free Speech" issue?

[Bazman]

Is Free Speech so important to the USA that you can't relinquish it to a 12"x4" piece of metal on your cars?

US plates have always amused me. In the UK car number plates are highly regulated. They have to use a particular typeface, be a specific size, have a yellow background for the rear plate, white on the front, made from certain reflective materials etc. You can't even adjust the letter spacing to make words. If your car is "M35 EXY" you can't change it to "M3 5EXY". There is a market for custom codes but most of these are historic plates that have been transferred from old vehicles and are
more likely to be interesting than codes in the current scheme (I saw a Rolls Royce with plate "BR 2" - my initials - recently).

You've get several hundred square feet to plaster the rest of your car body with messages, so why so precious about your plates?

Re:Is this a "Free Speech" issue?

[novium]

This isn't about the plates- which are regulated by the state as you describe, although because it is regulated at the state level, plates look different, state to state- but by the plate *frames*, which I don't think I've seen in the UK. E.g. http://goo.gl/h6vxc2 it's the silver bit around his license plate. Some of them have logos or sayings or whatever around them.

Re:Is this a "Free Speech" issue?

[Megane]

Now that it's easy to make plates with a full-color printing process that doesn't need stamping, some states have gone totally overboard. In Texas, you can get a custom plate with the logo of most major colleges and NFL teams (even ones up in the "damnyankee" northeast states). You can even get plates with a sequential number on your choice of multiple alternate backgrounds, such as white letters on a pink background, but most of those are "for a cause" art.

And while they require you to change plates after a number of years (due to limited lifetime of the reflective material), I still have and see many of the old stamped plates. Also it seems that at some point they started requiring a new license plate when a vehicle is sold, which only increases the churn.

Of course when you get a new plate, it is a new number, that way they can just have a stack of new plates in the tax office. Back in the day, Oklahoma used to re-issue you a fresh plate with the same number every year with a prefix based on your county (like a telephone number), until a fire broke out in the state prison (probably from a riot) and destroyed the equipment. Then they finally accepted that, duh, plates can easily last ten years.

I think Virginia is another state infamous for plates gone wild. This one is my favorite.

I saw a Rolls Royce with plate "BR 2" - my initials

Your last name starts with a digit? Pleased to meet you, Mister 2! (But who is Number One?)

Wereas...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I'm the High Commissioner of Ruritania.

And get Diplomatic Immunity.....

Re:Not a fantasy country anymore?

[hoboroadie]

It's a little more free-range here. The cops hate everyone else, even the rich, but if you are in their buddy club, you often get to skate.

Questions and answers

[wonkey_monkey]

Are the Bay Area's wealthy all part of some sort of illuminati group that identifies each other by license plate instead of secret handshakes? The answer is the state highway patrol

How can "the state highway patrol" be the answer to a question that starts with "Are..."?

Re:Questions and answers

[gzuckier]

Are the Bay Area's wealthy all part of some sort of illuminati group that identifies each other by license plate instead of secret handshakes? The answer is the state highway patrol

How can "the state highway patrol" be the answer to a question that starts with "Are..."?

Read my upcoming book, Poor Sentence Structure as an Index of Asperger's

other secret frames

[Anonymous Coward]

I've noticed for years here in Los Angeles area cars with a license plate frame that simply says KMA367. After some research I found that it was the base station call sign for one of the local police radio nets. This goes back maybe 20 years now. Presumably it identifies the driver as price friendly and has attached benefits.

impartial accident assessment

[Barbarian]

I'm not too concerned about getting away with minor speeding. I'm more concerned about impartiality in accident reports, and excusing criminally negligent behavior. Is this happening? If so the solution, unfortunately, is 100% recording of traffic from the police vehicle point of view, and removal of all officer discretion.

Putting France there ? You msut be Americain.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please you are showing an incredible bias. France by all idnependent measure is as corrupt as the USA is, and now way in the same group as China, India and Central America. In fact in the trnasparency Index France and USa are roughly at the same level (http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/) 71 vs 73 which at this scale means no difference.

Also most of the corruption in France is politician bribery and udner the table payment. There is no way the cop bribery cited above would even fly in France. People would be on the street and asking for the head of the policemen refusing to fine car based on licence plate. Sure some policemen waive fining rich people due to the threat of lawyer, but that's also the case in USA. But waving fine due to licence plate would no fly in France. As such it is incredibly unlikely you observed widespread corruption on the level of china or india in France.

Reminds me of a movie line

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get to quote "All of Me" too often, but this seems appropriate:

"Look, lady. Just because my grandfather didn't rape the environment and exploit the workers doesn't make me a peasant. And it's not that he didn't want to rape the environment and exploit the workers; I'm sure he did. It's just that as a barber, he didn't have that much opportunity."

Agreed, don't blame the rich, but saying that the "little people" are idiotic for not participating is just plain stupid. In most cases they aren't allowed to because these kinds of things are decided in a back room by people who live politics. You have little control if you don't even have time to read the paper.

I think that's reasonable, actually

[Anonymous Coward]

Just make the cost of the licence to speed equal to the social cost. Is 25,000$ enough? Well, if people will pay it, they can.

just pay the fines

[gzuckier]

that's basically a license for speeding.

And?

[Anonymous Coward]

I make small annual donations to the Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial Fund (or something like that), because they send out cool window stickers with an identifiable logo. I also have the membership card in my wallet, just in case. I offered one of my extra stickers to a friend, who has morals and personal values, and she politely declined the offer.

It's better than that...

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the items you can get is a license holder. You put your licence in one side, and your 11-99 membership card on the other. Just hand it over to the officer and watch your problems melt away.

Disclaimer: I signed up @ ~$50/yr level based on a phone solicitation as a charity. It wasn't until the kit arrived and I saw the other fine items I could purchase for my speeding and drunk driving related needs that I realized what the scam was.

ANPR

[Martin S.]

The major motivation for this to facilitate ANPR for stealthly speed cameras.

Famous UK Personalised number plates

[Martin S.]

MAG 1 C

COM 1 C

Some others http://www.platemaster.com/fac...

Re:The law is for the little people

[bob_super]

Whoosh!

Re:The law is for the little people

[Pfhorrest]

I plead Poe's Law.

Re:The law is for the little people

[bob_super]

Plea accepted.
I thought I had gone far enough beyond believability on that one.
It says a lot about the state we're in, when even at that level it can be taken seriously.

Re:The law is for the little people

[Sentrion]

At least half of the "middle class" should make more than the median income. But we have a lot of laws that provide special protections and subsidies for those with below median incomes, or for those living near or below the poverty line. I just don't think that consumer protections for all should be given such a low priority over helping families in dire need. Even after Obamacare coming into affect, middle class families can end up losing most of their life savings after just one major medical event. The outlook is worse for any family with a member who is chronically or terminally ill. People with moderate incomes are still forced to file divorce against a spouse that they love because otherwise their spouse would not qualify for nursing care assistance. A family that is already receiving food stamps and subsidized housing isn't hardly affected by a $600, $6,000, or $60,0000 hospital or nursing home bill. Just about anyone with below-median income can file chapter 7 bankruptcy and wipe out debt with a fresh clean start. But if a middle class family just barely exceeds median income for their area then the whole family has to pay 100% of their "disposable" income for either five years or until the debt is paid in full. If they have other expenses, like a car or home repair, and if this causes them to fall behind on their five year payment plan, the case can be dismissed, and they will owe the full debt plus interest. This middle class family would be allowed about $700/month to feed a family of four. If both parents work 60 or 70 uncompensated (ie salary) hours each week, then there isn't much time to prepare cheap meals from scratch.

The attitude in government is to either promote industry or to help the destitute. But there are increasingly more risks today to hard working families that can lose everything they've been working for. We should have more policies that protect the present status of middle class families rather than waiting for them to lose everything first before getting any help. Ending the sense of entitlement that hospital administrators have for the net worth of their patient's families would go a long way.

As our society is very litigious compared to most other countries, families are incurring legal expenses over matters that should be dealt with in ways that would be much less expensive. If my ex-wife is dating a registered sex-offender, it should only take a conversation with local law enforcement to halt visitations until the sex-offender is out of the picture. It should not take $30k in legal fees and a couple trips to court.

I could go on about restrictions that prevent families from starting a business, or saving money by doing certain repairs without paying fee after fee for permits, permissions, licenses, etc. for some of the most mundane activities. The middle class has it good - when they can actually keep most of the wealth they generate. But no one is going to bat for the middle class, so we are slowly losing protections we once had, losing freedoms we once had, and are facing greater risks of losing middle class status.

Total bullsh!t.

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you ever feel like you've been hoodwinked by a clever fund raiser? Because if you believed that story and run out to buy your "get out of jail" license plate frame, you have been.