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Chinese-Built Cars Are Coming To the US Next Year
cartechboy (2660665) writes "Made In China." It's a sticker we all know too well here in the U.S., and yet, it seems not everything we buy is made in China. To date, there haven't been Chinese-built cars in the U.S., but we keep hearing they are coming. Now it seems it's about to become a reality, as Chinese-built Volvos will be arriving in the U.S. as early as 2015. The first model to arrive will be the S60L. The payoff for Volvo if it manages to convince buyers that its cars built in China are just as good as those currently built in Europe is vast. Not only will it save on production costs, but it will help buffer against exchange rate fluctuations. Volvo's planning to make China a manufacturing hub, and that makes sense since it's now owned by Chinese parent company Geely. But will Chinese-built cars be just as good as European-built cars, and will consumers be able to tell the difference?
Anyone want to make any bets on how long they're being sold here in the U.S. before someone dies in an accident because it was made with sub-standard parts, or poor quality control?
Don't mod me down as a troll or flamebait, either, because it's not like there isn't a history of low-quality crap coming out of China.
And toothpaste. Sadly it's getting harder and harder to avoid buying food that has at least some ingredients from China.
>But will Chinese-built cars be just as good as European-built cars
Yes.
Have you seen the quality of European built cars?
Have you noticed the vast Chinese manufacturing industry that assembles all the technology.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Quite frankly, that's what matters.
...that scratches Volvo off the list of cars I'd purchase.
Doc Brown: No wonder this car failed. It says "Made in China".
Marty McFly: What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in China.
Doc Brown: Unbelievable.
"Volvo - made far away from your environment"
Chinese-branded cars make early KIAs look like a paragon of quality. The tradeoff of lack of quality for lower price might be acceptable in consumer goods, but in North American automotive world where baseline costs is dictated by regulations this simply won't work. Add on top of that economic drag off mandatory dealership sales model and you can't really cut the costs and overhead to create cheaper offerings.
As to Chinese-made Volvos - unless they are offering 10 year bumper-to-bumper warranty you will not see many of these of the road.
There go your jobs if you support this business model.
"SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
In your new cheap ass glow in the dark Chinese radioactive steel deathtrap ..
But how is a "folks' wagon" or "Fix It Again, Tony" any worse than something you have to "Fix Or Repair Daily"? You go somewhere in an F-O-R-D, and you come back in a D-R-O-F: Driver Returns On Foot.
really? because google translate seems to think it's "Fußgänger"
But an ideological one.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
"Get the lead out"
:-D
ba dum tsh
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
I'm minded from earlier cases of problems with Chinese-sourced products that the Chinese attitude is very much "It's the buyer's responsibility to make sure they're getting what they ordered and paid for. If they don't check, it's their fault for being so gullible.". Not exactly the attitude I'd be looking for out of a manufacturing center.
I'm told that Chinese manufacturers make things exactly as flimsy as their client wants them. Pay more, get more. Did Nintendo consoles lose their Tonka Tough reputation when Nintendo moved manufacturing to PRC?
No no no... lets just stop buying things that need to be reliable from people who cannot produce reliable things.
And looking forward to Elio Motors as well:
http://www.eliomotors.com/
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
I can tell the difference quite easily. Americans buying european cars improves european economies. Americans buying chinese cars improves chinese economies. What I can't figure out is what would happen if Americans were to buy american cars. hmmm.
Most of my apple kit is manufactured in China, and is as good a build quality of any electronics I own, as far as I can tell.
It seems that the quality is determined by the design; that is, the Chinese manufactures build it as awesomely or as cheaply as you tell them to.
The fear is that unscrupulous manufacturers will substitute inferior inputs, I suppose, but it appears that, at least for premium brands like Apple and Lenovo, that is not happening. As for labor inputs and standards, well, scruples seem to be lax everywhere but Germany. Personally, I try to be aware of the social impacts of the products I buy, but when I have purchased stuff produced under questionable social conditions, said stuff has never seemed to have suffered any performance degradation. Rather, unfortunately, the opposite is sometimes the case.
I'm not sure that 'as good as European cars' is really a selling point, when the car buying books I've been looking at recently mostly say 'don't buy European cars, they're crap'. Then again, that may be because they're made in Mexico.
Never ever tolerate good wages and working conditions, security for workers or solutions to social problems.
ALWAYS find the cheapest labor without actually shooting strikers yourself.
Get a friendly government to make slaves for you and then underpay THEM too
Remember, the only Real Creators are Management and Capital
Everyone else is a leech, demanding payment for making products, how disgusting can they be?
That's the Capitalist WAY, after all!
China is playing USA quite well and the debt keeps going up. The time will come when China will impose conditions and/or demand payment and the shit will hit the fan.
I'm not sure who really buys them. They have a legacy of being ugly boxes that are really safe to drive. That's not a market segment I'm familiar with, but as long as they are still ugly and still safe, I guess they'll be okay?
I still kind of get them confused with saabs. Do they have the same stigma? Sabb drivers were upper middle class new englanders, so went the steriotype. Would they buy chinese? I don't know anyof them.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Companies like Apple source from China but they have extremely rigorous specifications and quality control processes. They can afford to reject batches of output that don't meet their standards. Chinese companies aren't beholden to OTHER PEOPLE's requirements so they are free to churn out cars of any quality they like. Whereas their Chinese customers may be happy to be able to purchase a crummy car that looks nice and falls apart, that might not fly in the US. It could, if they want to displace GM but they can only do that but undercutting massively the price. Moreover EVERY car company has understood for decades that they have to make cars WHERE they sell them if they plan on making large numbers of cars. Volvo has always been a small company. So again, they can afford to make a small number of units and ship them.
It's the service, parts and dealership network that will matter. If they fall apart it's one thing, if they fall apart and you can't get them repaired for 6 months because there's no parts, that's another.
Indeed, I just hope they can make it to production
Growing up in the mid-late 80s, I vaguely remember the US having a total freak-out session about the Japanese taking over. I was a kid, but I've also been told that things like MBA programs did anything they could to jump on the Japan bandwagon, training people in Japanese management techniques, manufacturing processes, etc. People were absolutely convinced that there was some magic that the Japanese people and economy had that absolutely had to be emulated. Even before the 80s, having the Japanese car companies come in and encroach on the Big Three's turf was a huge mind-shift.
I wonder if China is going to succeed where Japan failed sometimes, but I also know we've been down this road. There's no real secret to their success in manufacturing:
- They have a huge population, and most of them are not averse to factory work. (We've taught 2 or 3 generations now in the US that manufacturing is a dead end job.)
- A strong, authoritarian central government in China has control over the people and key industries, and can make instant decisions to bolster growth with zero debate. They can also crush dissent -- can you imagine how much easier life would be in the US without the president having to fight Congress over everything?
- As we've seen, environmental laws aren't enforced the way they are here. Even the most laissez-faire among us can recognize that China has pollution problems.
The one thing I see that's different from the 80s is that people in general in the US aren't as well off as they were. Even back then, there were still a few industries that provided lifetime employment at good wages. Same thing goes for retirement -- pensions were still available to some people, so they didn't have to be paranoid about retirement. Now, everyone needs cheaper and cheaper stuff. China is the home of cheap manufacturing and will continue to be for quite some time. Until people feel more confident and can spend actual income rather than incurring more debt, convincing people to pay more for a higher-quality product is going to be a tough sell. And that's where I think China might have an opening -- what Japan did for high end manufacturing in the 70s/80s, China is doing to the low end to some extent.
I own a European made Volvo (I think it was made in Belgium.) It's almost 10 years old and has 120K miles on it. The engine will run forever, and the car is fine except for the things you would expect to start wearing out around the 10 year mark (belts, bearings, engine mounts, etc.) Volvos are (were?) designed for extremely long service life, kind of like Toyota Land Cruisers. It'll be interesting to see if the new owners keep the quality the same.
One thing's for sure - the next 10 years will be very interesting. I come from the Rust Belt, and being a Rust Belt 80s kid was no fun. Now the god of almighty free market efficiency is coming for the last decent manufacturing jobs. Even more worrisome is the loss of white collar employment, you know, the stuff we studied for so we didn't have to work in a factory. Unless the economy does a complete shift of some kind, we're going to have to get used to extremely high sustained levels of unemployment.
Consumers can tell the difference between VW made in Mexico and VW made in Germany, and VW is not owned by Chinese. Whoever thinks that Volvos made in China would be (in the near future) as good as Volvos made in Sweden is just delusional. Although, they'd still likely be much better than American cars (GM, Crysler, Ford).
I can't see how moving manufacturing to China will reduce quality. I think it may enhance it actually. Sure a lot of socialist swedes will be out of work but I won't ever own or lease a volvo again after my 2001 T70, defects, engineering issues (turbo falling out) and electrical problems all over. No thanks.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Allow me...
I bought a Chinese car. All in all, not bad. A design I wanted for decades (Italian "inspired"), lots of internal space for a very small car, many components from high-quality brands (like Bosch) and some curious aspects, probably derived from Chinese culture. On top of that, very inexpensive in a country where cars cost you a kidney (Brazil).
Unfortunately, these guys are starting and they don't really get the auto business. For a long term warranty (6 years), actual support was actually nonexistent. Parts took months to be delivered... if you broke any plastic, be prepared to do without it and hope it's not a legally required component. I was very worried about tires (since it was a size not used in Brazil).
Will I buy another Chinese car? Maybe, just not now. So that you know I'm not prejudiced, I have owned Italian and French cars in the last years, mostly without problems. Cars nowadays generally don't present problems, everyone's technology is quite advanced.
But Chinese cars... I won't be an early adopter again... not before I have a firm belief they provide good assistance.
...otherwise we will notice the difference.
...if it manages to convince buyers that its cars built in China are just as good as those currently built in Europe...
Talk about a low bar!
About 5 years ago I stopped investing in Chinese companies. Why? Because I didn't want to support even indirectly a regime that, without apology, oppressed Tibet and supported the despotic regime of North Korea. I hold them largely responsible for sacrificing millions of my long-separated brothers (yes, I'm ethnic Korean) through starvation and torture simply to keep a "buffer state" in between them and the "capitalist" (ha ha, what irony) South Korea and U.S.
My stance was only hardened by their support, for purely geopolitical/economic considerations (OIL), of Syria and Iran (and, I think Libya). They and Russia have kept those regimes propped up and have made the tragedies in the Middle East even worse (of course America started it but at least we know now that most of us were idiots to be led by one). That's not to mention the authoritarian and despotic regimes that China is supporting in Africa purely for their resources.
Look, I know the West (and especially the U.S.) have done a LOT of bad things but the Chinese don't even make a pretense of things like human rights, even in their own country. As I've said, they've been willing to sacrifice millions for a modicum of security (they could've asked the U.S. and S. Korea if, in return for not letting the Kims return to North Korea from one of their trips to China, we would promise not to put American troops north of the 38th parallel. As if S. Korea would even want American troops on the peninsula once the threat was gone). Now, living in S.E. Asia, I see firsthand how China with its growing power is throwing away treaties and agreements it has signed in order to bully the Vietnamese and Philippines with their ridiculous "cow tongue" shaped demarcation of the seas. They are returning to 19th century "gunboat" diplomacy in the 21 century world.
I fear that as China grows ever stronger, they will continue to discard previous commitments to peace and will literally force their will upon the world. Is that what you want to support? I'm a realist, and I love my gadgets and my improved standard of living brought on by the flood of low-cost Chinese products (often produced with stolen patents and technologies but that's another story) and I'm not quite ready to live without. However, when there's a choice, when you can purchase something that is identical (hopefully) in every way including price to another but one is made in China and one was made in Sweden(?), I hope you'll make the same choice I do.
If China, not the U.S. had the power the NSA has; would any of us have any protection at all? Think of what kind of world that would be to live in. (That's what 1.2 billion people ARE living in).
>> will Chinese-built cars be just as good as European-built cars, and will consumers be able to tell the difference?
Initially, they will feel the same, but about an hour after they drive the Chinese model they will be hungry for an all-European experience instead.
General Motors has had a major presence in China for years. Curious thing though, the Chinese only allow them to sell cars there that are made there. What a concept! We all have a choice on what car we drive. I for one want to know where its made. I will not drive a Chinese car. Maybe a Tesla if its made here. At least my Harley is mostly made here.
That 1984 US VW Passats that were made in Mexico are now the Volkswagen Santana, that is made and sold in China.
The factories in Mexico were packed up and moved to China and the model remanufactured under the label of VW Santana.
Every cab in Shanghai is essentially a brand new 1984 VW Passat.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Then either they dont come or pass US import standards.
I'm afraid you haven't thought that entirely through yet. CURRENTLY, China's economy depends upon endless American consumption, so tanking the USA's economy by demanding payment would be as bad for China as it would for the USA.
It's kind of like how Donald Trump works -- if you borrow $10k from a bank, and you can't pay it back, you're in trouble. but if you're like Trump and you borrow $100 million from a bank and can't pay it back, the bank is in trouble, so the bank will continue to lend you more and more until you're out of trouble. And allow you to pay it back over decades. Otherwise the bank itself becomes insolvent.
Anyhow; let's assume that China no longer needs a healthy US economy -- they have a large enough middle class that they can afford to consume their own crap, and become a self-sustaining economy no longer dependent upon world trade, like the USA was in the 50's/60's.
So, China demands repayment, even if it destroys the US economy. The US still has a few options, because they are a nuclear power, which can even involve wiping out their debt by wiping out the creditor -- essentially starting world war 3 in order to get out of debt.
But there are other options: For example, when the Chinese middle class reaches the 500 million mark, China may be too expensive to afford itself and will seek to export/offshore manufacturing by that time. Ironically, the USA may be affordable by then, with a large, well-educated, working class in desperate need of jobs.
The Chinese will own the factories, but the stuff will get built in the USA. Which, also ironically, will boost the US's economy and help the USA pay back China. Slowly, over decades, like Trump.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Who built it isn't more important to who designed and tested it. In Venezuela, the state has partenrships with Chinese manufacturers, I have no plan to buy a Chinese mede car here because we don't have a certification or testing infraestructure, we don't have verified dummy tests like USA and Europe has. Why a Chinese made vehicle that pass USA certifications and tests be any different in quality than one make in Europe, if they are different in quality and both passes the tests, the tests are the problem
Nobody ever said Fiat was good quality.
In fact, it may just be that Chrysler quality *dropped* thanks to Fiat.
Until you start talking to fanboys in my extended family who claim that so long as the headquarters is on U.S. soil, it's a desirable "American car", and if the headquarters is elsewhere, it's an undesirable "foreign car". They think a Ford made in Mexico is more desirably "American" than a Toyota or Honda made in their home state. The excuse is that "the money goes back to Americans", but fanboys can't specify what "the money" means. Wages go to the economy of the state where the factory is located, and profits go to shareholders who may live around the world. How should I get through to them?
we haven't moved enough manufacturing jobs to China yet, I am sure the economies of the West will flourish from this.
If you look, you can find good USA garlic.
Man, that stuff grows in the ground. Industrial polluted dirt and water will be bound by the sulfur containing compounds in garlic.
I won't eat that stuff.
Support the farmers in Gilroy CA.
Volvo only makes trucks- the company dumped the car division but let it keep the name. Ford bought it, sucked out everything of value it could then sold it to the Chinese for 1/6 the price. Your 2001 was a Ford Volvo-- a few years of Ford shaking things up then it probably got better but not the same as it once was as ford extracted whatever value they saw before dumping it cheap on the Chinese. Something I believe was a $5 billion loss for Ford over like 7 years or something... they must have got something out of that deal rather than just straight up losing that money... Notice Fords got better during the time -- could be they moved all the good people/tech over.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Nobody buys Volvo because of who assembled it. They buy because of who engineered it. There is a difference there. Parts are made all over the world, are interchangeable to a degree, and can be assembled rather easily. What differentiates cars is who engineered them.
Just fyi, Geely makes the current iteration of the famous London Black Taxi Cab.
Bullshit. Nissan Versa is made in China, as are half of Chevy's low end cars.
There have been three wheeled vehicles and at least two different trucks imported in the past, but I'm guessing someone in the government didn't get their palms greased, or possibly they got their palms greased by the wrong individuals who didn't like competition, because they disappeared rather quickly.
By the by, quality is the degree to which a deliverable satisfies requirements. A car that falls apart after 5 years isn't any higher quality than a car that runs for 50 years, if you're going to replace either in 5 years anyway. If the former is much cheaper to own and maintain for the first 5 years than the latter, then the former is of higher quality; if the latter is cheaper to own and maintain, then the latter is over-engineered and can be stripped back to last 5 years and cost much less, better satisfying quality requirements.
By ignoring resale value, your numbers are completely divorced from reality and lead to irrational conclusions.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Isn't "Chinese-built Volvo" an oxymoron? Just sayin'.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Will they all come with a sticker that say "No Slaves were killed during the manufacture of this car"?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Not directly related, but it's food for thought...
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
Or do you just throw them away when they break?
seriously. don't need these vehicles..
...leaves a lot to be desired. I'll give an example to which I can relate having experienced it first hand: rifles.
Up until recently, Webley rifles were made, lock stock and barrel (pardon the pun) in Birmingham, England. The iron was quality and didn't wilt when it got hot or even standing in a rack*. Then the barrel and receiver manufacturing was moved to China, where the wood stocks were replaced with (ugh!) ABS plastic. The ironwork was/is horrible. Barrels wilt if you look at them and sears are made from the softest iron it's possible to get - they wear out after a few hundred shots if you're lucky, as opposed to the Brum mechanisms where sears and barrels last practically forever. I have a Stingray in .177 (Birmingham-built) that has the original barrel and the original sear (hell, it has the original 43-year-old spring!) - the rifle is older than I am. I *had* a Chinese built SMK B2 in .22 - the stock split (yes, it was an ABS stock) after less than 5,000 shots, which I replaced with a custom beech stock, and the sear failed after another 2500. After that I introduced the rifle to a metal chipper. I'll never buy Chinese again.
*I've seen Chinese built Crosman CO2 rifles on display stands where the barrels have wilted under their own weight - apparently they had never been fired outside of the factory test range.
"Made in China" has been a warning label for Hard Drives for a long time now. Abyssmal quality control/High failure rate.
Scooters coming out of China have been literally falling apart after about 1200km of driving them and dying after a few thousand more. Repairmen aren't even touching them anymore.
Chinese cars (Landwind) have been on the European market for a while now. In 2010, the CV9 model went through a crash test and failed pretty miserably.
Maybe they've learned from their mistakes, but probably not.
The best way to uplift an oppressive nation isn't to boycott it. It is to support its oppressed people
That 1.2 billion people in China aren't all dyed in the wool commies. Most of them are just normal people like you and I, looking to feed themselves and their loved ones. Their children will also be the future leaders (there's a thing called death, it happens to everyone, even the current leaders of the CCP). What do you think is better in turning those future leaders to be more sympathetic to the West and Western values: shut them out, or give them a hand?
Boycotting Chinese products hurts the common people more than the regime they live under. Want an example? Your brothers and sisters in North Korea. How much stuff have you NOT bought from N Korea for all these years? Does it look like the Kim family is suffering? Is the meme about Kim Jong Un making fun of him being a scrawny anorexic?
If China, not the U.S. had the power the NSA has; would any of us have any protection at all?
Wait, did you just claim that we're more protected with NSA spying than without?
Whatever happened to the normally anti-NSA slashdot mods?
BYD, a Chinese car company, is *supposed* to start selling cars in the USA starting next year as well, of course, every time I read one of those articles, it seems some delay always forced a change of plans.
Tata was also supposed to introduce an American version of the Nano, but my guess is that that's never going to actually happen.
I personally, am hoping the Elio gets off the ground and is a success, not just because it's supposed to be American made, but I'd rather have a car that gets 84MPG, and looks different from everything else on the road. They have 20k reservations already and there's no real car yet, so, clearly the idea is a good one if they can just pull it off without screwing the pooch.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I only buy cars from countries with a US military base. That still leaves a lot of options. Just to name a few: Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Hyundai, Kia, Fiat, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Lotus
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
The reason why bad quality stuffs are coming out of China is because either consumers demand lower price stuffs or companies demand higher profit. If you want good quality stuffs, you got to pay higher. A vacuum cleaner used to cost me $500. I can't even find one that is more than $150 at wal-mart the last time I checked. Anyone thinks they could get away with selling their cheap quality products at high price quarter after quarter, year after year, they are delusional.
It's pretty well-documented that CMs working in China have to do frequent random audits of manufacturing output to check quality, and it's as well-established that the Chinese CMs will cut corners if they think they can get away with it. It's a stupid game of cat and mouse where lack of regulatory sanction on the manufacturer makes the gamble worth it.....
The build quality of modern vehicles has little to do with where it is made. The vast majority of assembly is done by machine (with the exception of Porsche and some other high end cars that are still built largely by hand). What determines reliability is how the cars are engineered.
Painting with very broad brush strokes, here is my experience with cars:
Japanese cars: Simple design, minimalist engineering, extremely reliable and cheap to operate
European cars: Complex design, somewhat over engineered, reliable but expensive to maintain
American cars: Poor design, not durable (in my experience), not very reliable but cheap to fix
Quick anecdotal evidence: I was taking my car in for some routine maintenance and they are giving me a drive home in the customer shuttle (a Chrysler PT Cruiser). I look and notice that it has about 80.000 miles on it and ask the guy driving it if it has been reliable. He tells me that they had to replace the motor mounts 3 times so far. 3 times! That, folks, is inferior design. My Honda has 110,000 miles and the original motor mounts. Original engine and tranny for that matter. Runs like a Swiss watch.
I'm not suggesting that all American cars are junk but I travel a lot and rent a lot of cars and my perception is that Japanese and European cars are far superior. I have driven nearly everything on the road.
What astounds me is that Chevy can build a fantastic car like the Corvette and yet nearly everything else is sub par. Ok, the new Malibu is a big improvement...I'll give them that. Ford? Well, the Mustang finally got rid of the live rear axle suspension. Now they are only about 10 years behind every other sports car on the road. Chrysler? They have some innovative designs but the quality continues to be horrible on balance.
None of this is a knock on the assembly workers. If the cars are well engineered they will last, whether they are made in Japan, Europe, USA or China.
Never too late to turn things around?
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-air-pollution-0428-pictures-photogallery.html
South Korea was Japan 2.0
It will probably help as much as out-sourcing and H1B visa acceleration and illegal immigration....
The first few shipments of Chinese Volvos will probably have been built by people who know there will be...consequences, if they don't do an exemplary job. And then every car will have been inspected in detail by other people who know they'd better have an exit strategy for themselves and their family if a lemon sneaks through.
But once they've got other auto makers locked into a race to the bottom nobody can win without a ready supply of slaves, standards will change. This is a country that shipped poison dog food and children's toys laced with lead and other heavy metals. The only thing they worry about is getting caught.
I love my family. I'll never put them in a Chinese-made car.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
At first the made in China cars will probably be made with attention to quality and safety. That will open the flood gates to all cars being made in China. GM factories will be closed down and the manufacturing outsourced to China in order for them to cut costs and compete with their competitors who are already doing the same. Once all the automotive manufacturing is outsourced, the quality will start to slip as competition heats up to provide even cheaper made cars to the North American and European market. That's what has happened with other consumer goods and that is what will happen with cars too. You won't notice any difference at first in terms of quality because manufacturers will want you to get used to the idea and trust made in China cars but after a few years watch out! That's when things start to go downhill in terms of quality. By then it will be too late. It is one thing to buy some cheap quality clothing that starts to go into holes after a few washings and it is another to buy a product that could result in death or being maimed for life if it fails due to faulty or cheap parts. I don't trust Big Business any more. They screw workers and consumers over and over again.
In the 1960's the prevailing opinion about Japanese quality is that it was inferior in every way except cost, and there was ample justification for that opinion. Then the same thing happened again a couple decades later, but this time it was Taiwan. In the early 1900's? Germany was the dog-shit bottom-feeder of manufacturing.
All three of the above are now considered to be among the highest-quality manufacturers in the world.
Things change.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm pretty sure most are already 99% made in China because Merika is made in China.
Getting US made honey isn't hard. My preferred honey is Crockettâ(TM)s Desert Honey. It comes from the southwestern US (and Mexico, bees don't much care about borders). Very tasty, much nicer than clover honey.
Some are great like that. Foxconn is one. They will build to your spec. You spec the cheapest shit with every corner cut? No problem they'll do that. You spec the highest of the high end? They are all over that too.
Not the case with all vendors though. Some will cut corners, sub parts, ignore QC and so on to make extra money and/or offer a lower bid.
It can be a crapshoot.
I think it's more about the choices the masses make. I wasn't aware Volvo had such a market loyalty in America. Never knew.
I think it wouldn't quite be like Lenovo. They would sell some cars but not sure if they would become a market leader like Lenovo. Also, one has to remember that laptop sales are in decline due to touch based tablets. China has no real presence in the tablet domain.
But Volvo are going to change...they're not Swedish anymore. Of course they're changing.
"In fact, it may just be that Chrysler quality *dropped* thanks to Fiat."
Is that even possible?
I've got better things to do tonight than die.
The new Fiats being sold as Dodges? Ask Motor Trend, specifically Kim Reynolds, their track tester. For a car that (finally) replaced the SCCA-worthy Skip Barber favorite child Neon, his quote from emerging from the test track was "This is just an awful car. It is completely uncomposed and sloppy. It doesn't do anything well out there." Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/road...
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I think most Chinese manufacturers follow "what you get what you pay for" principle very well . They can produce product from "high quality" (such as iPhone) to "crap quality" depending on what price and strategy the buyers would accept. Walmart is infamous on calling all suppliers in one big conference room and taking a face-to-face auction to find out a fool who would accept a ridiculous low unit price but huge amount offer. The quality is just a matter about customer return percentage, who cares?
1. Locate the cheapest controllable labor force in the planet. 2. Make some "expensive" thing. 3. Sell it at the same price as before.
The one secret that even the internets don't know is...what does it cost to built a car ? That 18k small runabout...The 35k "near luxury car"...the $60k statusmobile ? I'm sure the spread between the 18k car and the 35k or 60k car isn't massive, but the profits are. If the Chinese can make a 20k car for 4k, whereas the US maker will need 8k, quality being equal, then there is a problem here. What does it cost for GM, or Ford, or even BMW, to build that car ?
It was Japan, not China!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/our-first-chinese-car-is-here-for-the-week/
We've been there for almost 2 years now. I won't be buying one but haven't heard bad stuff about them either.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-15/chinese-cars-recalled-over-asbestos-concerns/4199630
I had minimal expreince with Chineese and electronic devie samples (the thing that must be polished as best as you can to get contract) had some problems like reversed diodes. Chineese can and make superb things, but you must come with your own process to them. Don't allow them to make mistakes, mark everything step by step, provide quality assurance tests and so on... and then your're going to have as good product as from Germany. But if You are small niche player with good margins better to work with western partners, because they suggest you expertise where you don't have it and you can spend more time to R&D your device. So simple flow chart: are you telling your empleyees "we want more be like Apple"? Yes - go east. No-go west.
You've obviously never experienced a Fiat.
The profit will be passed on to shareholders and executives. Customers? Employees? HA!
So Purina spec'd poison in the pet food they produced? The milk and formula providers spec'd melamine in their food? Sure, you can request lower quality, but China also works hard to lower the requested quality unless you keep testing and pushing it back up.
I have finally reached the point where I will never again buy any new car or truck built to meet US standards. Most of the problems we all gripe about with current automotive technology are the result of designs caused by trying to meet the current automotive standards set by the US Government. Plastic bumpers and body parts, aluminum body and frame parts (ever seen how these react near seawater?) and fuel injection, along with fallible computer chips that control what used to be done with a distributor and a carburetor- are all the result of trying to maximize the "fleet fuel average" to meet US standards. The Chinese will be stuck with the same stupid compromises in order to meet US standards- and the resulting crap will probably NOT be their fault.
I have recently driven trucks and SUV's in South America and Africa and discovered that with the less intrusive regulations of those regions there are still good practical and reliable vehicles on the market that I can work on myself. I drove a Toyota Land Cruiser in China that had a straight six cylinder diesel and a manual transmission. It was like heaven. It was quieter than any US made diesel truck. I could even see the engine when I opened the hood. Sadly that Toyota model is illegal in the United States and cannot be imported. In Africa I drove a Toyota troop carrier that had a diesel and 17 inch split rims- so I could change the tires on and off the wheels by myself if I had to. The gearing of the manual transmission made it possible to drive this thing through anything I encountered and this thing was a stock vehicle- not some custom-built off-road package that would be the only thing equivalent in the US.
If the Chinese figure out a way to give me a 4WD with a manual transmission that is sturdy enough (no plastic body parts- no aluminum bodies and frames-) then I will consider one. It better have a gearshift and not a fucking knob (Chrysler do you hear me?). Otherwise my next vehicle will likely be from the 1960's and I will be building my own parts if necessary to keep it running. That's how far back you have to go to escape the US regulations that turned US cars and small trucks into crap.
to make cars that range from looking mediocre to ugly
And if they're anything like their cellphones, they'll be bugged! See todays bit about the Android phone that phones its server....
Since US dollar is pegged to OPEC oil, USA should be held responsible for world poverty and socio-economic welfare of all 7 billion people on the earth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Casteism