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The Bursting Social Media Advertising Bubble

schwit1 writes One of the great "paradigms" of the New Normal tech bubble that supposedly differentiated it from dot com bubble 1.0 was that this time it was different, at least when it came to advertising revenues. The mantra went that unlike traditional web-based banner advertising which has been in secular decline over the past decade, social media ad spending — which the bulk of new tech company stalwarts swear is the source of virtually unlimited upside growth — was far more engaging, and generated far greater returns and better results for those spending billions in ad bucks on the new "social-networked" generation. Sadly, this time was not different after all, and this "paradigm" has also turned out to be one big pipe dream. According to the WSJ, citing Gallup, "62% of the more than 18,000 U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions. Another 30% said it had some influence. U.S. companies spent $5.1 billion on social-media advertising in 2013, but Gallup says "consumers are highly adept at tuning out brand-related Facebook and Twitter content."

254 comments

  1. Tuning it out? by XanC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll say we're tuning it out. With AdBlock we don't even receive it.

    1. Re:Tuning it out? by Anon,+Not+Coward+D · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i do use it... but i'd like to see statistics regarding how prevalent it's usage really is. I mean beyond the geek circle :)

      my guess is that adbloc isn't really an issue (unless firefox and chrome make it a default plugin).

      of course the point that marketing effect on consumer behavior is largely unconcious remains.. so that's the real handicap on this study

      --
      Sometimes it's better not having signature
    2. Re:Tuning it out? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      This site is about as social as i normally get. I had to turn the advertising off because it started throwing pop up in new windows.

      Anyhow, when it was on, nothing interested me unless i was looking for something specific and it judt happened to be there. But in searches and crap like that, i go out of my way to avoid the advertising links or products unless it is something specific and they are yhe only providers. Slashvertisements on the other hand seems to work because when i need to solve a problrm, i generally remember something from an article here.

    3. Re:Tuning it out? by meerling · · Score: 2

      And the stuff that does get through pisses us off enough we often swear to never use that product.

    4. Re:Tuning it out? by tbuddy · · Score: 1

      For the $50 promotional advertising credit I got with my dog's Facebook he pulled down 7,500 fans. Granted he is not a brand, but there is some effectiveness with them. I personally haven't used Facebook outside of the pages (which are naturally ad free), so I can't testify to the experience for those who do. I don't want to keep tabs on people, but Squinky demands fame.

    5. Re:Tuning it out? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      People learned to "tune out" ads on the radio more than 100 years ago. Then TV. Then (sadly) cable TV, which got its start by selling itself as "ad-free subscription television". Then internet.

      Why business seem to keep thinking they can force people to pay attention to their ads is beyond my understanding. They have 100 years of practice NOT paying attention.

    6. Re:Tuning it out? by rsborg · · Score: 2

      This site is about as social as i normally get. I had to turn the advertising off because it started throwing pop up in new windows.

      The hope, I think, for advertisers and their customers, was that social media users were as gullible and low-info like TV watchers.
      The problem they ignore is that the web is simply not designed for ads nearly as well as TV (though TiVO/DVR revolution is almost analogous to ad-block in it's dampening of ad spots), and the social media user base isn't nearly as comfortable with being spammed as TV users.

      Part of me wonders whether advertising actually works, or is simply a formalized form of hidden bribery (i.e., ad company that has numerous large accounts simply paves the way for customers to work towards common goals anonymously). Of course, no one went broke overestimating the stupidity of people in large numbers.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    7. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay attention to ads when they seem to be worthwhile. What you seem to be ignoring is the fact that there's levels of attention. Just because you think you're not paying attention and being influenced doesn't mean that you are free from such influences. Advertising works quite well.

      The problem though is that online ads and social networking sites are easy to avoid completely. If you're skipping through ads with a DVR, you're still seeing the ads, you won't get the full effect, but most of those ads were probably not targeted at you anyways.

      Ultimately, if you think you need to be paying attention to ads in order to be influenced you're sorely mistaken.

    8. Re:Tuning it out? by Drethon · · Score: 2

      I don't use it at home, I just tune out. I use adblock at work to get rid of those annoying "IT has blocked this facebook ad because..." that are a hundred times larger than the original ad.

    9. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      62% of U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions.

      People aren't necessarily good at judging this sort of thing. And if you're stupid enough to spend time on worthless crap like Facebook and Twitter, you probably aren't as clever as you think you are.

      Companies wouldn't be spendng $5 Billion on ads if they weren't getting a return on it.

    10. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Advertising works quite well.

      On certain people.

      Ultimately, if you think you need to be paying attention to ads in order to be influenced you're sorely mistaken.

      Ultimately, that's an utterly irrelevant point. There, you've been influenced by my post and you agree with me 100% in your heart of hearts. If you say otherwise, you're deluding yourself.

    11. Re:Tuning it out? by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I only use AdBlock when the advertising gets abusive.
      Music, live video, full screen popups. For the normal stuff I let it pass. I am going to the web site for some content I want to get, and maintaining a website isn't free. As well I don't want to pay to view the site, so I will take most adds as a fair trade.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    12. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll say we're tuning it out. With AdBlock we don't even receive it.

      You are a thief. You are stealing their service by doing that. If you don't want the ads, stop going there.

    13. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder how much money is actually spent on ads vs. sneakier ways of promoting products - such as fake reviews, or even real reviews where a shitload of journalists get wined & dined then all mysteriously heap praise on a certain product.

      Also throw in PR companies trolling discussion boards while we're at it.

    14. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never mind, I take it back. It's A-OK!

    15. Re:Tuning it out? by machineghost · · Score: 1

      Of course, no one went broke overestimating the stupidity of people in large numbers.

      The Lone Ranger, John Carter, and Cowboys & Aliens might disagree with you on that ... though your point still remains mostly valid.

    16. Re:Tuning it out? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I agree, such tools are only going to be used by people who actively seek it out. I've never even seen adblock in the Firefox list of recommended add-ons. Maybe some companies turn it on by default (it saves a ton of bandwidth). But overall I'd be surprised if even 5% of users have it on those browsers that support.

    17. Re:Tuning it out? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      Advertising works quite well.

      On certain people.

      Exactly. Certainly it does work on certain people, or they wouldn't still be spending money on it after so many years. But other people -- many, many other people -- are not so easily influenced.

      Don't try to tell me what influences me and what doesn't. I am very familiar with my own buying habits, and advertising has very little to do with them. Advertising might clue me in to the existence of a product that I otherwise did not know about, but before buying I get my information from other sources.

      Most of the time, advertising influences me negatively! I often (usually, in fact) say to myself, "Looks like an over-priced POS". I've been fooled that way, too, and later decided (after I learned more) that it was a decent product after all and might be worth having. But that didn't come from the commercial ad. More often, I buy something because I saw one that someone else had and I see that it's well-made or works well.

    18. Re:Tuning it out? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      of course the point that marketing effect on consumer behavior is largely unconcious remains.. so that's the real handicap on this study

      This "study" is garbage. Most people have always said that advertising doesn't effect them. They said the same thing back in the days of TV, radio, and print. Poll results mean nothing. Web ads link to specific landing pages that allow the advertisers to track the source of the click, and track it to any eventual purchase. If the ads weren't paying, the advertisers wouldn't be running them.

      My company runs web ads, and we know exactly which are working, and which aren't. Social media sites actually don't work well for us. Search engine text ads, triggered by specific search terms work much better. But social media ads appear to be working fine for many other advertisers.

    19. Re:Tuning it out? by epyT-R · · Score: 0

      You already pay for your bw.. why should you pay for theirs?

    20. Re:Tuning it out? by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you want to force people into it, then put your content behind a paywall. Then you will find out what it is really worth. If you leave it open on a public facing server, you are implicitly offering it. The internet is not cable tv. You don't get to dictate what happens to your content inside computers that do not belong to you.

    21. Re:Tuning it out? by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 2

      Social Media advertising when it works well is often the users _wanting_ to partake in the brand they favor. Their was a really good recent documentary on the social media advertising world, both regarding products and people. For products most are already established brands that want to milk their following for potential expansion to the friends of the people who partake. For people it's all basically getting someone known to showcase people who are not yet known. 'Expanding circles' and all that.

      The first works especially well for large brands... Movies, soft drinks, shoes, etc. The second works well for things like actors, singers, and others needing or wanting to be a celebrity. The second is also the reason for some of the 'youtube millionaires' and I don't exactly mean money, but some have gotten rather good amounts of money for becoming popular online.

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    22. Re:Tuning it out? by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 1

      I used to use it, but then I started using no-script... and I didn't need it anymore.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    23. Re:Tuning it out? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I think TV ads still do some work even with DVR/Tivo. I just left satellite with tivo, for streaming only. I just realized by looking at a newspapers that I had no idea about new movie releases in the theater even big name releases. Before, even with a DVR you see some ads as they flash by, and my finger is not on the remote to immediately fast forward through ads so I end up seeing some of them, other timers I'm just being a vegetable and sit through the ads rather than fumble for the remote.

      I notice on netflix that a lot of shows really do seem to be designed around the minute or two minute pause between acts. This is true even in live theater as there's time needed to set up new props, the orchestra is playing an interlude, etc. I notice even on shows created specifically for streaming (Arrested Development last season) that there are the pauses right where the ad should be plus the 5-10 second repeat of the plot hanger that just occured. So advertisements do fit into a TV environment.

      With web though the ads are always intrusive. A thin strip down the center of the page with actual info, with large multicolored and animated pictures on both sides, sometimes with sounds. If they had stuck to a "this page brought to you by Lucky Strikes" at the very bottom it'd be ok. Even the old format of just a standard sized web banner at the top would be ok for most people (except those on dialup who spend 2 minutes downloading the ad and 10 seconds downloading the email message). The problem is the immensely annoying and distracting ads, the bandwidth hogs, the malware vectors, etc.

    24. Re:Tuning it out? by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      Depends - As the default IT support dude in my own family, I made double-damned certain that everyone who asks for help in browser performance installed and uses AdBlock Plus, the element helper, the DoNotTrackMe extension... got nothing but rave reviews after they put them in, so I'm certain that at least on their part, word has spread (not like it's hard to install the stuff).

      I won;t claim anything beyond 20-30%, but I'm pretty sure that it would be fairly close to it.

      The only dynamic I can think of to counter that is the mobile side of things, where the ability to block ads is almost nonexistent (unless you can jailbreak the thing, or find an add-on browser that supports it, etc.)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    25. Re:Tuning it out? by Znork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Social media advertisement is the sales guy sitting down at your table in the bar and trying to sell you a new refrigerator when you're hanging with friends because he saw you looking at refrigerators two weeks ago in a shop.

      Search or content related advertising is the sales guy trying to sell you a new refrigerator when you're looking at refrigerators.

      One of those has a chance to make a sale and might even be appreciated. The other is just irrelevant.

      For sales, it's pointless to know what a customer is interested in if you don't know when they're interested in it, which means you're always better off targeting content over people because content has both temporal targeting as well as interest targeting implicitly right, while person profiling and social media presentation only gets a generic long term interest profile and implicitly targets people doing something other than being interested in products.

    26. Re:Tuning it out? by s.petry · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Part of me wonders whether advertising actually works, or is simply a formalized form of hidden bribery

      Sure, advertising works. That's why we have had TV commercials since very early on. Does it work the way people claim it does on the Internet? Well, that is a different question and that answer is "depends".

      I think an important thing to remember, is that a metric assload of science has been done specifically for advertising. For some reason, that science is not really used with advertising on Web sites.

      What works? Easy. Products and placement with certain colors and sounds, targeting your average audience. This is why demographics for TV and Radio shows are important. Have younger females listening? Advertise woman's products, "light" alcohol, and healthier foods. Have a bunch of younger males watching? Advertise beer, fast food (Extra Big Ass Fries), and men's products. Have a mix of younger adults, run gender neutral ads for cleaning products, baby products, and "family" style food.

      The key here is that ads have to be appealing, not overwhelming. Sure, some people fall for the infomercial fast talking guy showing off their "Amazing (Billy Mayes TM)" products, but those are an extreme minority. The majority of web sites either don't care about overloading consumers or don't realize they are doing it.

      What does not work? Overload. Slashdot currently has dozens of adds, all blinking and flashing in an attempt to get your attention. This method of advertising is equivalent to having 10 TV commercials simultaneously sharing your TV screen. It's annoying, and the overwhelming majority of people won't click anything even if they might be interested. What they will do is open a new browser window and search in clean space for the product and information. This way they can get it without the overloading of senses. Web sites decided a while ago that since you can't target an audience by any rational means, the majority of the time, you have to overload people with everything they might possibly want and pray that a user clicks and generates a fraction of a penny.

      Services like Google ads try to make more sense of your audience so that you can target them more like TV/Radio commercials. Web sites on a massive scale may use the targeted ads, but are still overloading "hoping" for a click.

      Psychological studies have shown how good sensory overloading can be at causing discomfort and confusing the audience. Ever wonder why CNN and MSNBC have shit flashing all over the place? Overloading is a huge reason why, and yes it's intentionally done. Not for advertising purposes, but it's an interesting one to study.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    27. Re:Tuning it out? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      This "study" is garbage. Most people have always said that advertising doesn't effect them.

      So how does one account for click-through counters? Sure, one can say that the ad may not get clicked on but the thought is implanted, etc... but there is (unlike radio and TV) at least one metric advertisers can use to determine how effective an online ad is.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    28. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this a troll? If anything, the one he replied to is more of a troll.

    29. Re:Tuning it out? by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "The only dynamic I can think of to counter that is the mobile side of things, where the ability to block ads is almost nonexistent (unless you can jailbreak the thing, or find an add-on browser that supports it, etc.)"

      I use Weblock on iOS, which works quite nicely for the general stuff, like those awful spy buttons.

      I entered all the blocked links from my usual dozen news sites, copied manually from my Adblock settings on my desktop.
      You can't read a news site nowadays without that, those guys are desperate.

    30. Re:Tuning it out? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      So how does one account for click-through counters? Sure, one can say that the ad may not get clicked on but the thought is implanted, etc... but there is (unlike radio and TV) at least one metric advertisers can use to determine how effective an online ad is.

      But no advertiser wants that used as a metric, because people with an IQ higher than a watermelon only click on ads by mistake, or when they're offering free stuff.

    31. Re:Tuning it out? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      The Lone Ranger, John Carter, and Cowboys & Aliens might disagree with you on that ... though your point still remains mostly valid.

      In those cases they weren't overestimating the stupidity of the masses, but were instead overestimating their capacity for poor taste. ;)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    32. Re:Tuning it out? by Tyndmyr · · Score: 4, Informative

      It isn't adblock...it's clickfarms that are killing it. Some people buy likes to look popular, and these are done via bots or underpaid folks in poor countries. Meh, no big deal, right? Well, if you buy likes, those accounts are pretty worthless, and the lack of interaction means your posts will be rated badly, and not shown to nearly as many of your fans who are real people. So...just don't buy likes, then? Well, the problem doesn't end there. To disguise themselves, the spam accounts go through and click like on random different things to obscure patterns. Legitimately bought ads will produce mostly worthless likes from clearly foreign accounts, regardless of where they claim to be from, or how you filter your ad purchasing. This is why I no longer purchase facebook ads in pursuit of likes.

      --
      Support more choices in goverment-Vote 3rd party.
    33. Re:Tuning it out? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Social media works great for things I will talk my friends about movies, politics, and occasionally global sports like the world cup or Olympics. Since I don't watch TV I couldn't tell you what's playing right now, especially since most movies are reboots or sequels which really blend together unless you've seen the trailers a few times. I did end up buying a ticket to the Lego movie due to an ad on Facebook. After almost all of my friends had been talking about it for weeks. Ads for dishwashing soap, soda, pizza etc don't even register for me mentally online.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    34. Re:Tuning it out? by pla · · Score: 1

      Social media advertisement is the sales guy sitting down at your table in the bar and trying to sell you a new refrigerator when you're hanging with friends because he saw you looking at refrigerators two weeks ago in a shop.

      I agree with your analysis of the difference between social- and search-based ads, but would characterize the social marketing a bit differently.

      The real problem with expecting "social" marketing to work comes from the fact that marketers remain utterly clueless about how social media works. They think they can just throw up a traditional business website on Facebook, magically get a critical mass of friends/followers (usually starting by compelling their coworkers to do so, which in turn leads to their coworkers creating a bunch of throwaway FB accounts to humor their boss), and then Step 3: Profit!

      The few companies doing well on social media don't use it to explicitly advertise; sure, it gets their brand and image out there, but more in a "product placement" sense than in a "Have you checked your life insurance policy today" bashing-you-over-the-head style.

    35. Re:Tuning it out? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Exactly, the people in the study are self reporting on what they think, which often has very little to do with how they behave over time. There's a much better way to measure it, sales figures, and if the ad leads to a virtual shopping cart then you can measure the ROI very accurately. Old fashioned paper coupons do the same thing, when you use it you are also telling the company which advert lead you to their store. Companies are not just going to hand that information over to an academic researcher, a quantifiable marketing strategy is financially sensitive information and a strong competitive advantage.

      Personally I don't use ad block, I don't even tick the "disable advertising" on slashdot, I click on a random advert maybe once every 2-3 months (usually software/book related). Auto-play video and sound piss me off and will drive me away from a site faster than a goatse pic. I'm single, in my 50's and have a healthy disposable income, other than my sweet tooth, I'm just not a particularly impulsive buyer. Having said that, the internet gets my business if I want something relatively expensive like a new set of tyres, household appliance, etc, the first thing I do is research it on the web. An excellent example of this is buying a house, I bought my first house in the early 90's, spent several weekends driving from one agent to the next. Found my next house on the web a few years ago, it lead me directly to the agent. Ditto with the last car I bought.

      The web was invented when I was studying for my degree, I didn't think it was important nor did I know anyone who did. The ultra optimism of the late 90's no longer exists, the enthusiasm that remains has been funneled into places like kickstarter. Large marketing firms have already worked out what works for their bottom line and what doesn't. Personally I think for the most part the internet has found a reasonable balance between entertaining/informing/advertising over the past 20 odd yrs, from a purely historical POV it's still growing and improving at a spectacular rate.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    36. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't try to tell me what influences me and what doesn't. I am very familiar with my own buying habits, and advertising has very little to do with them. Advertising might clue me in to the existence of a product that I otherwise did not know about, but before buying I get my information from other sources.

      I would really encourage you to take an introduction to marketing class at your local community college. One of the key elements of advertising is psychology of buying. You are trying to target not just the conscious part of people's mind, but also the SUBconscious part of people's mind when it comes to purchasing. The latter is much much more powerful (and profitable).

      That being said, a lot of companies get both WRONG when it comes to advertising, influencing negative purchasing behavior. Good advertising, like good architecture of a software product, is incredibly difficult to get "right".

    37. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even necessarily wined and dined - most tech review sites get sent 'samples' of software/hardware for testing and review. Give a bad review, you won't receive the next Big Thing (TM).

      A lot of reviewers make a small secondary income selling the freebies after reviewing

      (Captcha: Ballers)

    38. Re:Tuning it out? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Social media advertising, hmm, how about people start taking some social responsibility for the ads they show on their web sites.

      Reality is you show an ad for a product on your website, then you are promoting, you are claiming that it is true and you are recommending it to your readers. This whole social responsibility disassociation of web site from the ad the show and hence the products they promote is bullshit. Websites should be made legally liable for the products they promote should the information about those products prove false. They are earning money to spread lies and based upon that should be liable for those lies.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    39. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of me wonders whether advertising actually works, or is simply a formalized form of hidden bribery...

      Of course advertising works. If you did absolutely no advertising, no one would even know that you have anything for sale. Search engine style ads are probably the most effective form of advertising because you are shown targetted ads at the point you have made the decision to purchase a product and are searching for the best deal. Social media ads are likely no more effective than regular print and television ads since you are bugging people when their interest lies elsewhere.

    40. Re:Tuning it out? by matbury · · Score: 1

      Yep, opinion polls will reveal people's opinions of the question at the time it was asked, nothing more. The respondees' opinions might be consistent, they might be ephemeral, there's no way to know. That's one problem with opinion polls, the other is that advertising and PR work on emotional levels and are highly manipulative, shamelessly "pushing people's buttons" to generate reactions. It's something that most people don't like admitting to being susceptible to so they lie about it and/or are in denial.

      You'd have to construct carefully controlled studies and carefully observe people's behaviour after ad messages on SN services to see what reactions they actually provoke. When you have that data, then you can make arguments about how effective or not it is. With all those billions being thrown around you'd think someone would want to find out. Or is it a case of the buyers of ads being the most susceptible to clever PR and marketing? People in sales departments aren't particularly famous for being the most evidence based, level headed, and rational beings.

    41. Re:Tuning it out? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      This site is about as social as i normally get

      It's sorta social, demented and sad, but social.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    42. Re:Tuning it out? by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      I don't use adblock either, and I haven't disabled advertising on slashdot either. However, I can't think of having ever clicked on a link. I think this is just because I don't really see the ads. I also don't really recall seeing ads on facebook, although I know they must be there. I just tune them out.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    43. Re:Tuning it out? by Znork · · Score: 1

      Yes, there are of course a few appropriate ways to use it. Anything you could do the equivalent of unobtrusively positioning at that bar table, such as brand display would work as well as anywhere else. A few other things that are also appropriate would have some success rate; social calendar style things like events related to preferences, etc.

      It's not completely pointless, it's just much more limited and less efficient for most marketing than many already available methods. And I really despise the attempts to sell person profiling as a magic marketing bullet when it's inherently worse than content profiling.

    44. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What works? Easy. Products and placement with certain colors and sounds, targeting your average audience. This is why demographics for TV and Radio shows are important. Have younger females listening? Advertise woman's products,

      Here's where the smart money is for online advertising -- not only are they starting to "advertise women's products to women" but they are also designing ads that are specific to the profile of each customer. Well, not down to each individual, but when you have 1000+ data fields on each person, you can show them a version of the ad that is nearly "perfect" for them. White teenage mother of a 6 month old boy sees a diaper ad with a teen mom and a white 6-month old baby in it, a 30-year old mother of two teens living in a neighborhood with home values of $1M+ each with a "surprise" newborn sees an ad with teen kids helping a 30-year old mom take care of a newborn in an upscale nursery room. Etc. Where it really starts to get devious are the ads for stuff that is purely discretionary - vacations, expensive cars, or even just candy bars. That stuff will be tuned to the max to find your psychological weak-spots in order to manipulate you into buying stuff you don't even need.

    45. Re:Tuning it out? by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Most people have always said that advertising doesn't effect them. They said the same thing back in the days of TV, radio, and print.

      I've always loathed advertisement. I consider it some form of mind rape that some company wants the 'right' to use some of my brain to store their shit. In a store, if I remember advertisement for a product, I consciously choose the competing product; how's that for 'doesn't affect them' ? Does that show in your stats ?

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    46. Re:Tuning it out? by jedrek · · Score: 1

      There is literally one metric that counts with advertising, no matter what agencies, media houses or publishers tell you - sales. Everything else is BS. If your advertising does not increase sales (be it by increasing brand awareness, engagement, education, market segment creation, etc), you're just throwing money away.

    47. Re:Tuning it out? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Not one single bit because most people (the other x billion of us) don't waste energy trying to extract some form of revenge in such a useless manner as what you just described.

    48. Re:Tuning it out? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      But the knowledge that it existed did come from the commercial ad (at least you described it that way) so the commercial ad didn't influence you.

    49. Re:Tuning it out? by mathfeel · · Score: 1

      I almost feel like I am forced to use AdBlock by bad ad. Before I install AdBlock, I said to myself, sure online ads are bad, but that's how the "free" world works. Then I noticed some website wold take forever to load, but once I clicked "STOP" on my browser, the content page showed up. I am forced to conclude that the content I want has already been loaded, but some part of the page is trying and failing to connect an ad server somewhere. I don't mind online ad, really. I tune them out. But if it starts to degrade my web browsing experience, AdBlock to the rescue.

      --
      The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
    50. Re:Tuning it out? by jeIlomizer · · Score: 1

      I would really encourage you to take an introduction to marketing class at your local community college.

      I would really encourage you to stay away from nonsense.

      You are trying to target not just the conscious part of people's mind, but also the SUBconscious part of people's mind when it comes to purchasing.

      Again, just check your buying habits. And it won't work the same on everyone.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    51. Re:Tuning it out? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      I would really encourage you to take an introduction to marketing class at your local community college. One of the key elements of advertising is psychology of buying. You are trying to target not just the conscious part of people's mind, but also the SUBconscious part of people's mind when it comes to purchasing. The latter is much much more powerful (and profitable).

      Yes, I am aware. While I don't claim to have studied marketing, per se, in college I did study it from the other end: the ethics and methods of subliminal advertising, from the perspective of the social sciences.

      So I have more than just a rudimentary idea of how it works. And I also know that it does not work well on me.

    52. Re:Tuning it out? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      But the knowledge that it existed did come from the commercial ad (at least you described it that way) so the commercial ad didn't influence you.

      What I meant was that it didn't prompt me to buy. Sure, occasionally I see interesting things for sale. But the point was that I very seldom -- and I do mean VERY seldom -- buy things based on advertising alone. And those few I do buy that way tend to be inexpensive, commodity-type products.

    53. Re:Tuning it out? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Advertisers don't like that one though, because it's hard to track. If you run an ad campaign that raises brand awareness, then you might see a spike in sales six months later when people start to actually need a product in the category that you sell and buy yours because now they trust your brand. Or you might see a spike in sales for a completely unrelated reason (e.g. increased seasonal demand caused by unusual weather).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    54. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why exactly are you paying attention to ads? The entire concept of an advertisement is built on a shady premise: the purpose is to get you to part with your money by creating a need which you do not have (by creating an image of something you desire now or might desire in the future and to associate a need with the product).

      Buying something based on an artificial need is idiotic.

      Having a legitimate need, and actively seeking out the things which fill the need is the modern day. If you are a rational consumer you will check neutral reviews before making your choice of a product.

      Advertisements worked when people didn't know and had no way of exposing themselves to the products. But now advertisements are everywhere. It's worse than ugly graffiti and tags bombed on a beautiful house facade by some jerk. Advertisements try to stand out. As a result, there is a continuing circle of invasiveness and evermore increasing craving for our attention.

      Would you not rather spend your attention in things which matter to you instead of wasting it in something nefarious disguised as superficial entertainment? I personally choose to use my attention to things which matter to me and try to consciously avoid as many advertisements as I can.

      Dealing with TV ads is easy: mute the TV, or change the channel. Dealing with internet ads is easy: use an ad blocker like AdBlock (and say no to their stupid whitelist too). Dealing with smartphone ads is very easy as well: turn off the network access (there's an app for that, regardless of platform).

    55. Re:Tuning it out? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Don't try to tell me what influences me and what doesn't.

      I would really encourage you to take an introduction to marketing class... [The advertisers] are trying to target not just the conscious part of people's mind, but also the SUBconscious part

      We know that, but as you seem to concede yourself, why assume this sub-conscious influence is always positive? When watching a TV drama and it keeps being interrupted by the same bunch of time-wasting ads, I start to get angry with the brands like a laboratory rat reacting to electric shocks. I have no doubt that is in my sub-conscious as well as my conscious level. One thing is certain, I am never going on a Viking River Cruise after having their TV ads rammed down my throat ad nauseum.

    56. Re:Tuning it out? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      But the knowledge that it existed did come from the commercial ad (at least you described it that way) so the commercial ad didn't influence you.

      You seem to contradict yourself there; perhaps a typo. I think you are saying that eg I would not be aware of eg Canon cameras if they did not advertise. Anyway, not true.

      I am aware that cameras exist, for one thing my father had one.

      If I want to buy a camera, Canon's out-of-context adverts will have nothing to do with it. I will look at camera review websites to find what exists and what are the recommended ones (and I know how to recognise astro-turfing). I will also look at the websites of Canon, Nikon, Samsung, Pentax, Fuji etc and also of camera shops - all I can find - (ie their own contextual advertising) to see thier specs and prices. I will look at camera shop displays. I will also listen to what any friends have to say about their cameras - but just because they condemn eg for not having a little voice telling them what to do will not mean that I necessarily condemn it too. Everthing needs to be weighed up.

    57. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unless firefox and chrome make it a default plugin

      It'll never be the default plugin in chrome, because google would lose tons of ad money if they did that (provided they disable "non-intrusive" ads, but if they don't, they can expect a huge antitrust lawsuit from the EU or whoever else). And since firefox is cloning chrome nowadays...

    58. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not as prevalent as niggers who think they can write, but can't.

    59. Re:Tuning it out? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      This "study" is garbage. Most people have always said that advertising doesn't effect them.

      They'd be right, unless it's an advert for fertility treatment. http://www.merriam-webster.com..."

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    60. Re:Tuning it out? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Yes I pay for my Band Width.
      I also pay taxes to support my roads, but if I ship out a product I need to pay the delivery company to ship the product. If I buy a product I either pay the shipping costs or it is included in the price. The shipping company and the retailer also pays for the roads and infrastructure too.

      If someone wants to make a living providing a web site, they have to make money some how to get those silly things like Water, Food, Shelter, Health Care, etc... As well they need to pay for their bandwidth, their servers, power, often additional staff who wants their own Water Food and Shelter... A hobbyist can probably have a decent website running, but they will need an other job to keep it running. But if that website gets popular, and it expands it no longer becomes a hobby and needs additional funding and time to let it grow.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    61. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it save bandwidth? My understanding was that it doesn't stop the download of the ads so much as prevent them showing in the browser. The ads still download, but aren't displayed.

    62. Re:Tuning it out? by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      of course the point that marketing effect on consumer behavior is largely unconcious remains.. so that's the real handicap on this study

      That was my thought exactly. The point of modern advertising is that it works on your subconscious. You don't realize it is influencing you; that's why it works.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    63. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay attention to ads when they seem to be worthwhile.

      Which seems to imply that you pay attention to _all_ ads; even only to determine whether they 'seem worthwhile'. You're caught, hook, line & sinker

    64. Re:Tuning it out? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I don't run AdBlock. It doesn't seem quite fair to me, to just get the content without the ads that support it. I do run NoScript, of course, since I refuse to allow unknown advertisers to run arbitrary programs on my computer. NoScript is something of a pain, but it's worth it to me.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    65. Re:Tuning it out? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What's most effective on me is the "other people who bought X also liked Y" ads from Amazon and Barnes & Noble. I've spent quite a bit of money on recommended books. Sometimes I like them, sometimes I don't, but it's got a high enough success rate to keep me doing it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    66. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The goal of facebook, google, etc. is to collect enough data that they can predict when people are at the point of purchase, and at that very moment send you a targeted ad. They are much closer to this than you might think.

      The goal of criminal behavioral analysis is exactly the same - predict criminal behavior. That's a lot closer than you realize as well.

      So you'd be wise to pay attention to these things and not shrug them off so easily as a bunch of used car salesman. If either of these goals are realized in our lifetime Web 2.0 is going to look like... well... Perl 6.

    67. Re:Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a waylayer. That I take measures to evade waylayers doesn't make me a thief. Also, ad blockers and spam blockers are essential to prevent malware infection.

    68. Re:Tuning it out? by tgmarks · · Score: 1

      my guess is that adbloc isn't really an issue (unless firefox and chrome make it a default plugin).

      Like Google would ever make AdBlock a default on chrome. Ad revenue is still their largest revenue source.

    69. Re: Tuning it out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lots of people think they might have something to say so we make sure they do not know how to write... or bury their writing under a cesspool of filth. After all we know for an absolute fact that the beliefs of an illiterate bare foot goat herder up in the hills of Afghanistan will never have an effect in any possible way on the leading nation of the modern world.

  2. Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by rastos1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    62% of the more than 18,000 U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions.

    Are the customers able to recognize whether they got influenced? I thought that current advertising methods are predominantly trying to influence subconsciousness rather then consciousness decisions.

    1. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are the customers able to recognize whether they got influenced?

      Why not? If their buying patterns remain unchanged regardless of what ads they see, then probably.

      I thought that current advertising methods are predominantly trying to influence subconsciousness rather then consciousness decisions.

      Much of psychology is bad science to begin with, so you can't trust any such studies.

    2. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Which is why advertising is a poison to society and must be destroyed. The set of advertising that is tolerable: (i.e. makes you think "That is an excellent point and I should reconsider my purchasing") is so heavily outpaced by the kind that's hellbent on being emotionally and psychologically manipulative to get you to do things against your own interest that it would be entirely acceptable collateral damage in my opinion.

    3. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, "From the companies from the list below, which have you bought products from in the last 6 months?"

      Then a portion of the companes listed would be among those who advertised on FB. Doesn't seem that difficult, at least, in theory.

    4. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by alen · · Score: 0

      this is done by celebs and models. your platonic female friend or booty call probably won't influence you to buy anything because of her facebook posts
        i like my kindle app and this one person i know she loves the Nook along with another of my facebook friends. and there is no way you can get me to buy the nook over an ipad mini

    5. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      I agree precisely with your angst.

      Unfortunately, I've never hear a seemingly viable proposal for how to solve the problem. My conclusion always keeps coming back to "buyer beware" as the best policy. Although I'd say that the more (literally) compelling advertising becomes, the more radical the solutions that are probably warranted.

    6. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I agree that the study is debatable, but at the same time, duh!

      I've been saying this for a while, but here goes - again.

      Google's on a great thing because when people go there, they're looking for something. Just have to give them ads for those cases where they're looking for something to buy. Job done.
      Traditional media, that's harder, the viewer/reader/whatever is not currently interested in the product. But at least he/she is somewhat interested in the rest - otherwise he/she'd be doing something else.
      On "social media", the user is already primed to ignore a good half of what pops up that he/she doesn't actually care about. So ads... Right.

      As for the whole "big data" crap, "we have so much information we can target ads right on to the buyer", yeah, right. The best google can do, and they have access to my search history, my email, my bills, is serve me ads for stuff I bought a month ago. Better luck next time with your "targeting".

    7. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Good point. I remember the '60's, and the radio jingles. I was just a kid then, but some of the jingles would stick in my head. Talked to someone who knew about such things, and he told me that even if it pissed me off, the advertisers thought it was a "GOOD THING" when those jingles stuck.

      Now, today, I don't see advertising. I know that advertising doesn't influence me. I just don't see it.

      When I need or want something, I get online, and start researching. I find a hundred products that claim to do what I need, so I narrow it down some. Compare some specs, and decide which of the specs really feel right to me. Is precision more important, or durability? Do I need tensile strength, abrasion resistance, or what do I need? Find some products with the specs I can live with. Finally, look at the prices. HOLY SHITE!! Reject the highest priced 25% right off the bat. Compare the specs again. Hell, those cheap things barely squeak in to the acceptability picture. I'm usually left with a half dozen or less products to choose from - at this point it's a matter of deciding whether to take the high or low end of the price spectrum.

      Research pays off. When I finally get my stuff, it actually works for whatever I need. And, I usually got it for about 60% of whatever my workmates found their substandard items for.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    8. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are the customers able to recognize whether they got influenced?

      Why not? If their buying patterns remain unchanged regardless of what ads they see, then probably.

      Problem is, most people will say this when we know it isn't true. We know as a documented fact that advertising do work as influence, even when (perhaps best when) you don't know it as a consumer/buyer.

    9. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're not the target market for Nooks. I'm not really sure why anybody buys those color ereaders, they're too underpowered to compete with a proper tablet, but they lack the eink display that a good ereader has. So, you wind up with the worst of both worlds.

    10. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are the customers able to recognize whether they got influenced?

      Why not? If their buying patterns remain unchanged regardless of what ads they see, then probably.

      Problem is, most people will say this when we know it isn't true. We know as a documented fact that advertising do work as influence, even when (perhaps best when) you don't know it as a consumer/buyer.

      Case in point: Most Apple-buyers will credit the quality, design and "just works" aspect of Apple products as reason for their choice, but Apple has and continue to invest an insane amount of marketing dollars in establishing exactly this perception. And, a significant amount of the Apple marketing dollars are actually targeted at customers that just bought the product, eg. they already won them, but by continuing to influence their feeling of having made the right choice, the users become more happy with their choice and more likely to recommend to others and buy again.

    11. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      62% of the more than 18,000 U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions.

      Are the customers able to recognize whether they got influenced? I thought that current advertising methods are predominantly trying to influence subconsciousness rather then consciousness decisions.

      Exactly. The typical ad campaign gets people to say "Dove Soap!" as many times as possible online. So then you're standing in the supermarket, trying to pick soap and "Dove" seems familiar to you... so you buy it. You likely don't even remember the reason you heard it before is some crazy dude made a wax sculpture of a a polar bear out of dove soap bars and it was a meme that got liked 100x in your feed a few weeks ago.

    12. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 0

      My own personal solution is to remove as much advertising from everything I can(screw your financial viability if that's what you depend on), and to avoid every single brand name I can on all occasions where possible.

    13. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Nothing wrong with Tesla, if you can afford the price. And the price is directly attributable to manufacturing costs (high battery cost, for example). You can do a lot worse in Detroit and Tokyo.

      But I agree with the rest of your comment. Lots of it is crap. Sturgeon's Law applies here.

    14. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Unfortunately, I've never hear a seemingly viable proposal for how to solve the problem.

      Artificial intelligence. I'm not joking, this is a job that is ripe for a computer to do the filtering for you.

      Today we have blunt intstruments like adblock, ghostery, noscript and requestpolicy. But we also have pseudo-intelligent agents like spam-assassin and NoMoRobo. The inevitable result is an arms-race of ever more sophisticated ad-filtering and more sophisticated evasion methods. But at some point the methods of evasion overwhelm the message of the ad in the first place (who hasn't received one of those uber cryptic emails that, if you even bother, take you 10 minutes to figure out what they are even trying to sell you? It was cryptic enough to get past the spam filter but it had to be useless to do so.) I'd like to see a future where we all have an "ai personal assistant" who filters everything for us. You could wear the equivalent of google-glass but instead of showing you ads, it would overlay billboards and signs with lolcats.

    15. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by 0123456 · · Score: 0

      You must be a marketer.

      You know what? When I go to the store, I have a shopping list. I buy the things on that list, and I go home. Unless there's a topless chick offering free personal services if I buy her soap brand, I won't be buying it no matter how many times I saw it mentioned on Facebook lately.

      But, hey, keep claiming that your adverts work by magic 'fluence if you like. It's either that or back to the dole queue on Monday morning.

    16. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      I need something that has a poor selection or can't be found locally... Google would be the only place I have ever clicked on an add and bought an item... I was also specifically searching for it though.

    17. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by taustin · · Score: 1

      From what little attention I pay to ads, the current model seems to be one of two approaches:

      "Our products are for mentally retarded halfwits, so if you're stupid you should buy it."

      or

      "Give us money or you'll die, your children will die, and someone will kick your dog."

      The former seems to be more prevalent among non-staple consumer goods. The latter is nearly universal for TV news programs and web sites.

      Both are insulting to the intelligence, but not nearly as insulting as the fact that they work.

    18. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You selected your soap, toothpaste, laundry detergent when you were a teen or younger (you just use your parents band).

      The fact that you are no longer 'in play' doesn't mean you are brand immune.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      This. The only thing that that statistics should tell is that customers are still too aware of the ads (from the advertisers view), and that they need to keep trying to raise that statistic. That said, a majority of people unaware of advertisers influence on them is not bad, I wonder how it compares to TV viewers?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    20. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by vux984 · · Score: 2

      You know what? When I go to the store, I have a shopping list. I buy the things on that list, and I go home

      So you pre-pick the brand of soap your going to buy?

      My shopping list usually just says 'soap'... sometimes I just write or 'teeth' to jog my memory when I'm at the store that I need toothpaste and floss rather than write them out individually.

      Or I'll write 'snacks thursday' to remember to buy some chips, veggies, dips, m&m's and drinks for Thurs (when, for example, my brother and his wife are coming over)... i'll pick the actual snacks based on what's on sale and what strikes my mood while I'm in the store... and it might even result in me bringing home some new flavor of chips, or whatever that I might have heard about somewhere.

    21. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by thoth · · Score: 1

      Which is why advertising is a poison to society and must be destroyed.

      How does this square up with the U.S. Constitution's 1st Amendment, the part about freedom of speech?

    22. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      So you pre-pick the brand of soap your going to buy?

      Uh, yes.

    23. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      The fact that you are no longer 'in play' doesn't mean you are brand immune.

      It means advertising to me is worthless.

      Besides which, I don't use the same brands as my parents; I use the brands which work best for me out of those I've tried.

    24. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Freedom of speech must be absolute. Companies must be free to make claims like "unlimited internet" and "free phone" and say things like "have $1m mr senator".

    25. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I select soap, toothpaste, and other similar things by means of the shelf tag. The lower the number, the better, as long as the minimum requirements are met. Additional "nice-to-have" stuff may or may not warrant a price increase of a given size. This process is repeated for every purchase, and can return different results based on inputs that have changed since the last time.

      Come to think of it, I buy everything that way, not just toiletries and cleaning products.

      Advertisers hate me, and, yes, I use AdBlock on the web. So advertisers double hate me. My exact rate of fucks given is zero.

    26. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Uh, yes.

      Uh. What on earth for?

    27. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by chameleon3 · · Score: 1

      So you pre-pick the brand of soap your going to buy?

      Uh, yes.

      All the more reason advertisers want your eyeballs-- you're loyal to your brand. One day you're going to need to buy diapers, or ointment, or any of a million other things you don't currently purchase. They want you to have some pre-existing knowledge of their brand. All other things being equal, it'll make it more likely you'll pick them. And become a customer for life.

    28. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      We know what kind of soap we prefer, and just buy more of it. Why is that hard to understand?

    29. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if an ad makes you aware of a competing (new) product you haven't tried yet?

    30. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Computers are a really bad example of this, because there are lots of objective criteria. Things like toothpaste and shampoo are much better. Most people have no idea, given two toothpastes, if one works better than the other. There's nothing on the packets that allows making an objective judgement. So people end up buying the one with the brand that they recognise. Somewhat depressingly, studies have shown that it doesn't even matter if their association with the brand is entirely negative - if brand A has done annoying things in the past and you've never heard of brand B, most people are more likely to choose brand A.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    31. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see advertising. I know that advertising doesn't influence me.

      Compare some specs, (....) Finally, look at the prices.

      Most price comparison sites use affiliate marketing (i.e. advertising).

    32. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      That's the best case scenario. If the "Dove Soap" ads get so annoying that my knee-jerk reaction to "Dove Soap" is projectile vomiting, they've lost.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    33. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by sudon't · · Score: 1

      I haven't watched television at home for decades, don't listen to commercial radio, and have used ad blocking almost from the day ads began to appear on the web. I hate advertising. Yet, I see enough advertising in my daily life that I'm aware of brands that I've never used, and probably never will. People like to think they're immune to advertising, (I was one of them), but the fact is, we are all influenced in some degree by advertising.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    34. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Do they said, so what?
      I'd bet they'd also claim that _no_ advertising affects them.

    35. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Thing is, rating computers on objective criteria doesn't cover every decision you might make. I remember a guy going for a Mac because it had a more powerful processor than the available Windows machines (shortly after the switch to PowerPC). There's reasons to pick a Mac, but that's an extremely lame one. Other examples are when somebody compares a Windows laptop to a Mac laptop, considering only processor speed, memory, and disk drive.

      I first ran into this phenomenon with military history buffs, who looked at gun and armor stats for tanks. There were other factors, of course: French tanks in 1940 were terrible ergonomically, while German tanks were good, so German tank crews were getting all the use out of a potentially inferior tank while the French tank crews were using a potentially superior tank to only a fraction of its potential.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    36. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Optali · · Score: 1

      This doesn't make much sense if you think about it: Even if advertising were effective we receive so many contradictory stimuli that they would either cancel each other or become so chaotic that our buying habits wouldn't be distinguishable from pure random chance.

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    37. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Optali · · Score: 1
      It's not even science.

      It's marketing people with number crunching data they do not understand.

      I was working last year at Comscore and came to know quite a lot of these. Most were absolutely unable to figure out how to calculate an average. This people are the ones in charge of producing the data that their manager (guys and chicks that know how to start Powerpoint with a bit of luck).

      This makes that even the people who really have some knowledge in statistics gets crap data so that even if they were geniuses (which they aren't) they would just be able to produce shit.

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    38. Re:Are customer able to evaulate that objectively? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak for yourself. I select my soap etc by choosing the cheapest brand that contains the right ingredients. Of course if a brand works I tend to stick with it. None of this is influenced by ads. Exception: when I find an ad disgusting (eg sexist) I might boycott the product.

  3. Anyone else getting Bullshit Oakley Sunglasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...ads that falsely tag one of your friends in it?

    I keep reporting those as spam and they keep showing up...

  4. No one is ever influenced by advertising by Minupla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No one is ever influenced by advertising, ask around. People say "no, I'd never buy something because it's on TV" but those infomercials stay in business for a reason.

    So polling people and asking them if advertising is effective on them is a bit of a red herring. Like IQ tests - logically half the world has IQs less then 100. Oddly, I've never met any of them.

    Now the question 'is social advertising effective' is certainly open for debate, but not because some survey says people believe it's not effective on themselves.

    Min

    --
    On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    1. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is ever influenced by advertising, ask around. People say "no, I'd never buy something because it's on TV" but those infomercials stay in business for a reason.

      I wonder if the FBI hired psychic detectives for a reason, too. Or do you think that because some ineffective practices, it means they're effective? Or maybe they're just not ineffective enough to completely fail.

      Like IQ tests - logically half the world has IQs less then 100.

      And also like IQ tests, it's bad science.

      Now the question 'is social advertising effective' is certainly open for debate, but not because some survey says people believe it's not effective on themselves.

      Yes.

    2. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like IQ tests - logically half the world has IQs less then 100. Oddly, I've never met any of them.

      They are all this side of the world - at the office, on the streets, in the malls, on television and newspaper offices, even in government.

    3. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by danomatika · · Score: 2

      The point of advertising is not to sell products but to promote their existence. Laugh all you want at the Ronco Rotisserie Chicken machines or Ginzu knives, but we *all* know them. I find myself preferring name brands simply because I've just seen their logos and heard their names before. That's what advertising is for.

    4. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I is not affected by advertising!
      (oh... facebook icon... I should go check my facebook page for updates...)

    5. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by jeIlomizer · · Score: 1

      Laugh all you want at the Ronco Rotisserie Chicken machines or Ginzu knives, but we *all* know them.

      We do? I certainly didn't.

      I find myself preferring name brands simply because I've just seen their logos and heard their names before.

      That seems rather silly, if that's your only reason.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by danomatika · · Score: 1

      I find myself preferring name brands simply because I've just seen their logos and heard their names before.

      That seems rather silly, if that's your only reason.

      It's totally silly. I'm not defending advertising or supporting it. I'm ashamedly acknowledging it's effect on myself. I certainly don't like it! It's gotten to all of us to certain degrees. If we don't recognize what that extent is, were truly doomed.

    7. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've never met someone with an IQ less than 100? That must be nice....

    8. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IQ tests aren't bad science. I take from your assertion that you're one of those people with an IQ under a hundred. IQ tests are accurate at what they're measuring, provided you don't try to compare the results across cultural lines.

      The big issue with IQ tests isn't the tests themselves, but rather the ignorance that people have over their purpose and what they actually measure. IQ is a measure of fluid intelligence as in how easily a person learns new facts. It's not a measure of crystalized intelligence which is also valuable as that's the intelligence that represents experience. Ideally a person would have a lot of both as you need experience and the ability to learn new things to work effectively.

      IQ is also a very narrow measure of intellect that doesn't necessarily include everything that's relevant. The scores themeselves are less of a problem than the issues that arise from knowing that you're smarter than most other people.

    9. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Well the Samsung adds influenced me to buy a Galaxy S5... after I did a ton of research and found no Motorola or LG phones that looks quite good enough and do not want an iOS device doing anything but playing music.

    10. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Like IQ tests - logically half the world has IQs less then 100. Oddly, I've never met any of them.

      Every time I see this, I think it's important to remind everyone that because of the way IQ scores work, you can raise your own IQ simply by killing people smarter than you.

    11. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Oddly, I've never met any of them.

      Lucky you.

      I have met my unfair share of absolutely downright retarded people that are probably well below even 80.
      People so dumb they should physically be incapable of not swallowing their own tongue 5 times a day.

      The worst part is so many dumb people are not dumb due to education, not dumb due to culture or society, but dumb because they are lazy as absolute hell and have just mentally rotted over even as little as 5 years. Anything over that is just a blackhole they are never coming back from unless they get external help, which they very rarely do if they are living alone / away from parents at least.
      So you end up with a society of braindead zombies.
      And that is just when they are happy-ish, which is rare. God forbid you meet these people when they are drunk or pissed off, you can feel it without even knowing the person. You can taste their awfulness from a distance. (I promise I am not an agent of the Matrix)
      People so bitter that it makes you uncomfortable.

      Consider yourself very lucky, very lucky indeed.

    12. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's important to also let them know that it only works if the target is above average (which is always the case if you're above average...otherwise you have to be careful).

      Consider a population of raw scores 70, 75, 100, 125, 130. Mean 100, SD 27.61. Standardized scores 84, 86, 100, 114, 116.

      Now 70 kills 75.
      Remaining raw scores: 70, 100, 125, 130. Mean 106.25, SD 27.5. See that? Mean went up and SD went down, so 70 is now more standard deviations BELOW the mean. The new standardized scores are 80, 97, 110, 113.

      Mr. 70 has just lowered his standardized IQ from 84 to 80 by killing someone smarter than he is!

    13. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      Oh, that is bull.

      "Cultural lines" is just a no evidence claim they put in there to explain away the huge racial and sexual differences we see. You are either good at basketball, good at math, good at writing, good at running, etc. Or you are bad. There is no such thing as relatively good for a white man at running, and in that way comparable to relatively good for a black man at running; The black man is simply better than you.

      I personally believe that IQ tests do not measure anything important or specific, and if they can be said to measure anything it would most likely be the amount you will study and try at the test (which is why I think they do somewhat correlate to "success" in life).

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    14. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by tsqr · · Score: 1

      You've never met someone with an IQ less than 100? That must be nice....

      Apparently, he's never had to respond to a jury service summons.

    15. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by houghi · · Score: 1

      So why are we not allowed to swear on tv? Why are we not allowed to see female nipples?

      The thing is, advertising DOES work. Be it via banners, email, posters, tv or whatever. What people often do not understand is that advertising (just like spam) is a numbers game. As long as you get more out of it then you put into it, it will stay.

      Regardless of what people think. And even if that 62% says it has no influence on them, I would be looking if I make a profit on it or not. If the 30% that I have some influence on is making me money, you bet I wil keep doing it.

      Even if it would be as low as 1% of the people, if I make money, I keep doing it.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    16. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by jeIlomizer · · Score: 1

      I take from your assertion that you're one of those people with an IQ under a hundred.

      Trying to poison the well with unfounded nonsense, are we?

      IQ is a measure of fluid intelligence as in how easily a person learns new facts.

      Actually, IQ tries to measure how well one fits into the formal education environment. We don't even understand what intelligence is, and yet you seem to think that we can just measure someone's "fluid intelligence" in the form of a simple number, using some poorly-designed tests? The very notion is ridiculous. They only test how well you can take IQ tests.

      IQ is also a very narrow measure of intellect that doesn't necessarily include everything that's relevant.

      Or anything that's provably relevant, as the case may be.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    17. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by jeIlomizer · · Score: 1

      So why are we not allowed to swear on tv? Why are we not allowed to see female nipples?

      Because the government shreds the constitution at every opportunity?

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    18. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      No. Never heard of those.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    19. Re:No one is ever influenced by advertising by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      IQ tests are hardly bad science, although some of the use of them is. They measure something that exists, and is at least a component of intelligence.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. Two things every bubble has in common... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. It's always different this time.

    2. It's not different this time.

    1. Re:Two things every bubble has in common... by alen · · Score: 0

      yeah, but this time we have real eyeballs. not the fake ones from 14 years ago

    2. Re:Two things every bubble has in common... by GNious · · Score: 1

      or, with AdBlock et al, we have no eyeballs, instead of the fake ones :)

    3. Re:Two things every bubble has in common... by IwantToKeepAnon · · Score: 1

      3. No profit :(

      --
      "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
    4. Re:Two things every bubble has in common... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for Bitcoin, of course. Bitcoin is different.

  6. Why "Sadly"? by unamiccia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why can't we celebrate how the Internet continues to resist freighting information with advertising? That's one of its best attributes.

  7. What do you think "secular" means? by kruach+aum · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm genuinely curious, because that word does not fit in that sentence.

    1. Re:What do you think "secular" means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      English lets words have multiple meanings. Even ones that don't make sense.

    2. Re:What do you think "secular" means? by hendrips · · Score: 5, Informative

      In English, it means "from age to age" or "generational." This meaning is actually older than the meaning you're probably thinking of.

      It ultimately comes from the Etruscan word saeculum, via Latin. In Etruscan & Latin, it meant the amount of time needed for a complete renewal of the human population, and if I'm remembering correctly, it was eventually standardized at 110 years.

      I believe that all Romance languages use some variant on seculo as their word for century.

    3. Re:What do you think "secular" means? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Actually, given the etymology, it looks like English pulled the two meanings straight from Latin, where their association made slightly more sense. Had we not fallen into 1500-ish years of pounding latinate monotheism, this sense of 'secular' might actually have been the more prominent...

    4. Re:What do you think "secular" means? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Secular does not mean "from age to age" in English:
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secular

      Another source comes close to the meaning you have, but that variant (way down the list) means once in an age (implying rarity, not enduring):
      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/secular

  8. maybe because people are different? by alen · · Score: 1

    i know single people who are always going out to bars
    single people hacking away on tech
    married no kids who are always chilling out somewhere
    and lots of other kinds of people

    why would i want to buy everything they buy? even then you can have a group of a dozen girls and some will have expensive and snobby crap, others wal mart crap, others the hipster overpriced crap, etc

  9. Tune out? by Moof123 · · Score: 1

    Heck I tend to hold a grudge against companies that stick themselves in the middle of family pictures, or who are clearly trying to hide their ads as content.

    I think in general there is much more ad revenue being spent than the results can justify, but perhaps the rest of society is far more gullible than I give them credit for?

  10. The article actually made two points by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1.) Social media advertising isn't as effective as advertisers hoped.

    2.) Social media can be mined for data about your products, what people think of them, and overall opinions about your company. It is also a tool for engaging with customers.

    Point 2 is much more useful to companies that 1; which means the real money in Twitter et. al. is data mining, not advertising.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    1. Re:The article actually made two points by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Data mining and intercepting bad company experiences and "making good" on them. For example, we had something delivered via UPS. The driver left it on our front step, didn't ring the doorbell, and just left. It sat out there for hours before we realized it was there. The package could have easily been stolen during that time and neither UPS nor I would have known until it was much too late. We complained on Twitter and UPS contacted us in an attempt to find out what went wrong and how they could improve their policies.

      I think this is the real usefulness for companies on social media. Spot bad experiences, help minimize bad PR by helping those customers, and minimize future bad PR by fixing those problems before more customers are affected.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:The article actually made two points by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Data mining and intercepting bad company experiences and "making good" on them. For example, we had something delivered via UPS. The driver left it on our front step, didn't ring the doorbell, and just left. It sat out there for hours before we realized it was there. The package could have easily been stolen during that time and neither UPS nor I would have known until it was much too late. We complained on Twitter and UPS contacted us in an attempt to find out what went wrong and how they could improve their policies.

      I think this is the real usefulness for companies on social media. Spot bad experiences, help minimize bad PR by helping those customers, and minimize future bad PR by fixing those problems before more customers are affected.

      Should have used FedEx.

      Seriously, I agree with you. The ability to learn about and fix problems can be a powerful tool to build customer good well and retention. Social media can supply a vast amount of near real time feedback on who you are perceived as well as alert you to bad (and good) customer experiences.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    3. Re:The article actually made two points by FireFury03 · · Score: 2

      Data mining and intercepting bad company experiences and "making good" on them. For example, we had something delivered via UPS. The driver left it on our front step, didn't ring the doorbell, and just left. It sat out there for hours before we realized it was there. The package could have easily been stolen during that time and neither UPS nor I would have known until it was much too late. We complained on Twitter and UPS contacted us in an attempt to find out what went wrong and how they could improve their policies.

      I think this is a bit of a red herring. If the company cares about customer service then you shouldn't need to complain on a public forum to get them to pay attention - they should provide a customer support line and actually take all calls to it seriously.

      Spot bad experiences, help minimize bad PR by helping those customers, and minimize future bad PR by fixing those problems before more customers are affected.

      Now you've hit the nail on the head. Social media is actually a problem for companies: prior to social media, a company screws up, you complain, they ignore you, you moan about it to about 3 of your mates. Now, a company screws up, you complain, they ignore you, you moan about it on twitter, it goes viral and a hundred thousand people see how badly the company treated you. The company isn't interested in helping their customer (if they were, they would've helped their customer whether or not it turned into a PR disaster), instead they are interested in avoiding really bad PR - really bad PR that wouldn't ever have happened without social media.

      I don't use Twitter, but I have sometimes wondered whether its worth getting an account just to make complaints, since complaints on Twitter seem to attract a much quicker and more helpful response than calls directly to customer services.

    4. Re:The article actually made two points by houghi · · Score: 1

      Point 2 will bring it back to point 1. Not as a direct point of sale, but as a brand awareness tool.
      When you see an add for a drink, it is not ment that you imediatly go to the store and buy that drink. It is that you see the brand in the store and recognize it.
      As it is something familiar, you wil be more likely to buy it.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:The article actually made two points by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Point 2 will bring it back to point 1. Not as a direct point of sale, but as a brand awareness tool. When you see an add for a drink, it is not ment that you imediatly go to the store and buy that drink. It is that you see the brand in the store and recognize it. As it is something familiar, you wil be more likely to buy it.

      Certainly, but that doesn't mean they will buy advertising placements instead of just using the interactive capabilities.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    6. Re:The article actually made two points by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I use FedEx over UPS anytime I can. Unfortunately, sometimes things get sent by whoever the seller decides to use and that can mean needing to keep an eye out for a UPS truck.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    7. Re:The article actually made two points by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Obviously, your social media presence would impact the company's response. If you opened a Twitter account just for company complaints, you'd likely have only a few followers and companies might feel comfortable ignoring you. My Twitter account has over 3,000 followers so I get recognized most times. If someone like Jenny Lawson (aka TheBloggess) complains, her 378,000+ followers get her immediate attention. (Or else her rabid fans will slam the company in question unless they make good on it.)

      But you're right about the multiplier effect. If I post to my 3,000+ followers that Company X did something horrible, some percentage of them might retweet the message to their followers, some might post about it on Facebook, people might chime in with their bad experiences, etc. It allows customers who previously might have been isolated in their grumblings to a tone deaf customer support line to amplify their message until the company listens. Of course, the Internet in general does this as well. Social media is just one more facet of the general Internet.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    8. Re:The article actually made two points by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I use FedEx over UPS anytime I can. Unfortunately, sometimes things get sent by whoever the seller decides to use and that can mean needing to keep an eye out for a UPS truck.

      Understand. I was actually making a comic reference to:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=148dowDhkVY

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    9. Re:The article actually made two points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use FedEx over UPS anytime I can. Unfortunately, sometimes things get sent by whoever the seller decides to use and that can mean needing to keep an eye out for a UPS truck.

      I've never had UPS mis-deliver anything.

      Fed-Ex, in the past 10 years I've had my package show up on my neighbors porch twice (FedEx Home), driveway once (also Home), had them "attempt delivery" twice before leaving a note "3rd and final attempt missed" (2nd day - I was working from home, I was physically in my house all 3 times - just happened to walk out as they were writing up the - first and only - ticket for the door saying they were going to return it to the sender - never heard a knock even, if I hadn't have been pissed off in the first place at them and been looking out the front window all day, I might've missed them entirely).

      Needless to say, I usually prefer UPS.

  11. Slashdot should get some editors by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

    "Why" "is" "Paradigm" "in" "quotes"? Secular? WTF is secular decline? Is that as opposed to ecclesiastical decline?

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    1. Re:Slashdot should get some editors by Threni · · Score: 1

      Quotes suggest "we know this is a bullshit word, but we're going to use it anyway". I have no idea what secular decline is, though.

    2. Re:Slashdot should get some editors by hendrips · · Score: 2

      Secular as in "generational" or "over long periods of time." It's a perfectly valid use of that word, if a bit uncommon. In fact, that meaning of secular is much, much older than the (non)religious meaning you're thinking of.

  12. Just like old Telco by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I want to buy new windows (for example) for my home I will google it and figure out who to call from there.

    Now leave me alone with your BS advertisements - like telco in the past - you are just annoying the majority...

    Not to mention in my 40+ years of existence, I've not known a single person who actually purchased something from a telemarketer.

  13. The difference. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    but Gallup says "consumers are highly adept at tuning out brand-related Facebook and Twitter content."

    I go one step further. I tune out Facebook and Twitter entirely, not just brand-related content.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  14. Ads supporting ads by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    Lots of sites have ads that go to other sites which are ad supported. Many of these sites have ads for each other. It's like a big pyramid scheme.

  15. AdBlock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best buying decision I ever made.

  16. Or just beating my eyes to death... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or just beating our eyes and ears to death with constantly flashing, jumping, rumbling, obnoxious advertisements made most of us capable of tuning it out. So it was their own fault, back to the drawing boards.

  17. Banner Ads in Decline? by slashkitty · · Score: 2

    Not in decline and certainly not for over a decade. They have been going up in both volume and price. Look at google's revenue numbers, of which a big portion is banner ads. Sure, they might not be the buzz word of the day, but banner ads still rule.

    --
    -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
  18. Straw man much? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    >> which the bulk of new tech company stalwarts swear is the source of virtually unlimited upside growth

    schwit1, are you one of POTUS's speechwriters in your day job?

  19. "Secular decline" by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 4, Funny

    As opposed to a holy increase as in "Holy shit, we're actually making money with these ads?"

    Spectacular, perhaps?

    1. Re:"Secular decline" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wiktionary's sense #5 is "Continuing over a long period of time, long-term."

    2. Re:"Secular decline" by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Secular decline" is sometimes used to describe a long-term trend of overall decline. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

    3. Re:"Secular Decline" by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      The 'secular decline' is what atheists do when invited to attend church on a Sunday morning.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    4. Re:"Secular decline" by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 1

      "Secular decline" is sometimes used to describe a long-term trend of overall decline. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

      I'd never heard that before. Thanks! I do wonder what the etymology of that is, though.

    5. Re:"Secular decline" by coxymla · · Score: 1

      Comment explaining the term: http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

  20. Must tune out ads by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Otherwise you can't get anything done online.

  21. Color me thoroughly unsurprised by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

    "Unlimited upward potential", right... There's only so much advertising budget to go around; companies will shift some of it from traditional media to social / online ads. The actual upward potential comes from serving the long tail: small firms that cannot afford to pay traditional media ads, or larger firms that are willing to spend more on advertising if it turns out to be more effective. Or an advertisment arms race. But even that only goes so far.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  22. Sample size of 18K? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/171... is what this report is based on.

    Survey Methods These results are based on a Gallup Panel Web and mail study of 18,525 U.S. adults, aged 18 and older, conducted Dec. 12, 2012, to Jan. 22, 2013. All surveys were completed in English. The Gallup Panel is a probability-based longitudinal panel of U.S. adults who are selected using random-digit-dial (RDD) telephone interviews that cover landline and cellphone telephone numbers. Address-based sampling methods are also used to recruit panel members. The Gallup Panel is not an opt-in panel, and members are not given incentives for participating. The sample for this study was weighted to be demographically representative of the U.S. adult population, using 2012 Current Population Survey figures. For results based on this sample, the margin of sampling error is ±1 percentage point at the 95% confidence level. Margins of error are higher for subsamples. In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error and bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

    18000 is a very high number for phone interviews. I think most were internet polls. So 18000 people who clicked on and took a survey while casually surfing said they are not influenced by social media? If such click-any-dialog-that-pops-up-randomly people are not influenced by social media, what about the people who are actually skeptical of the "series of tubes"?

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  23. people don't know themselves very well by MooseTick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "According to the WSJ, citing Gallup, "62% of the more than 18,000 U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions."

    I suspect most people would answer a poll saying advertising NEVER influences their buying decisions. Independent analysis may prove otherwise. Coke, GM, or whoever don't spend billions on advertising because they think it helps. They have done lots of tests and analysis, and they know it helps. Sure, lots of advertising is a waste. But targetted advertising at the right time and place can have a ROI.

    1. Re:people don't know themselves very well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could save up to 50% of my advertising budget, if I knew which half to cut.

  24. People don't understand branding. by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Informative
    Look, there are two basic kinds of advertisement:

    Informational: This is what most people think advertising is all about. It provides you with information about a product. It might be telling you a new product exists, or just a new flavor/kind of an existing product. It might tell you about what it does, or the price, at heart it is simple and easy to understand - people can't buy it if they don't know about it.

    Branding: This type of advertisement is not about information, it is about a feeling. It's what most of those 'cool' superbowl ads are trying to do. It's why Coca-cola and Apple keeps advertising (everybody already knows about Coca-Cola and they rarely talk about price/new products). This is about creating the feeling that this product is the kind of product that people like you buy. It also makes people believe the product is higher quality, because look, they can afford to advertise. (which also implies they have insurance to pay out if they accidentally put lead pain in your toothpaste, as opposed to that store brand you never see on TV).

    Because lay people don't understand branding, they routinely underestimate the value of advertising.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:People don't understand branding. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Look, there are two basic kinds of advertisement:

      No. There are two basic kinds of advertising. Most advertisements use both.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  25. Advertising is very influential by mozumder · · Score: 0

    Are you an idiot? Because you must be, since advertising is very influential. The entire global economy revolves around it. Every single dollar revolves around some form of advertising.

    It must cause your head to explode when you find out people actually BUY newspapers and magazines BECAUSE of the ads, or when they watch random teams in the Superbowl BECAUSE of the ads...

    Don't be a douchebag libertarian narcissist that thinks their lives are above influence by others.

    "I am so awesome that advertising has no effect on me."

    Introverted libertarian narcissist geeks such as yourself are the worst. Your narcissism prevents you from understanding how the real world operates, where advertising is actually DESIRED, because people are interested in other people's lives, and becoming like those people.

    Unlike you, where you're stuck comfortably in the awesomeness of your own life, but you don't know about your low social status, or complain about how other awesome people are actually somehow not awesome? hah.

    Given all that, social media advertising itself is a terrible concept, because it goes against the basic nature of how advertising and marketing and marketing works. Mainly, the rule of life that says people want to associate themselves with people more powerful than themselves.

    Why would a brand place their ad next to a picture of your friend from high-school throwing up, when they can place their brand's ad next to an awesome picture of Kate Moss in Vogue? Or next to an awesome sports figure on ESPN (the most valuable media property in the world)?

    If you understand that, THEN you understand how advertising really works, and how influential it actually is. Understand this rule, and you can pretty much make any brand.

    Of course, the libertarian narcissist douchebag doesn't understand that other people are higher power than them (because obviously their narcissistic disorder causes them to think they're just too awesome themselves) so this basic fundamental of advertising flies right over their head.

  26. Ad overload by timrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The reason the bubble is bursting is no doubt another case of ad overload. It's a cat-and-mouse game that's been going on forever - advertisers flood a given communication medium with advertisements and people find a way around it. TVs have things like the DVR (and earlier the VCR), one of the key selling points of which is being able to record a show and fast-forward through the commercials. There's also the TV culture of using commercials as a time to get a snack, go to the bathroom, or do something else and then come back afterward.

    The internet is becoming the same way. First it was pop-up and pop-under ads, which caused all of the mainstream browser developers to implement pop-up blockers as an integrated component of the browser. Sure, they're not 100% effective and many advertisers have tried to find workarounds for it (such as ads embedded into the website layout that cover content unless clicked away) but for the most part, the pop-up is nowhere near as effective as it used to be.

    The same thing is happening for banner and flash ads. In the days when Internet Explorer had near-100% market share, it was comparatively difficult to install an ad blocker, as most of them came as third-party programs that had to be installed separately. Now, most of the major browsers (IE still doesn't to the best of my knowledge) have a modding interface that allows for easy installation of things like Adblock.

    Advertisers have to learn how to advertise smart, rather than try to be as intrusive as possible.

    1. Re:Ad overload by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IE has support for ad-blocking built in these days. It's called "Tracking Protection Lists", and you can subscribe to many of the same AdBlockPlus lists that you may already be familiar with.

  27. Yeah Coke isn't a billion times tastier than other by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Yes indeed. People will SAY that advertising doesn't affect them. Then they immediately put on their Nike shoes to head to McDonald's for a Coke.

    Coke isn't a billion times tastier than Joe's cola. It sells a billion times as much because it's been advertised a billion times as much.

  28. This is no surprise to me... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

    First off, I just instinctively turn off ads that I see in a browser. They are nothing more than an annoyance to me. Secondly, FB and Twitter are full of fake profiles.

  29. George Carlin said it best... by JoeyRox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Every time you're exposed to advertising in America, you're reminded that this country's most profitable business is still the manufacture, packaging, distribution and marketing of bullshit. High quality, grade-A, prime-cut pure American bullshit."

  30. Tuning out by dragon-file · · Score: 1

    "consumers are highly adept at tuning out brand-related Facebook and Twitter content."

    Or better yet, just not going to those sites at all.

    --
    Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.
  31. Re:Yeah Coke isn't a billion times tastier than ot by 0123456 · · Score: 2

    Coke isn't a billion times tastier than Joe's cola. It sells a billion times as much because it's been advertised a billion times as much.

    It sells a billion times better because it's available just about everywhere and people know that it tastes like crap, but they don't know whether Joe-Bob's Home Cola tastes better or is recycled pig slurry. Joe-Bob could spend billions advertising Joe-Bob's Recycled Pig-Slurry Cola, and it still wouldn't sell as well as Coke does.

  32. What's the Influence of Crappy Polling? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    62% of the more than 18,000 U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions.

    I hate polls that take some factual statement that is either objectively true or isn't, and then ask people whether they think it's true, as if that tells us anything about the factual matter rather than just the biases of the poll sample.

    Social media advertising either influences or it doesn't. And it will influence or it won't regardless of whether zero, half, or all of the country thinks it does.

    1. Re:What's the Influence of Crappy Polling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...?

      Ok, just how should this be tested? Any form of social or psychological science is reliant on polling and self-reporting in the polled audience. There is no Glorious Oracle of Truth you can ask. Your rage almost seems based on misreading the poll question as "do you think social media affects other people's buying habits?", which would be a fairly silly poll to take. This is a personal question, and the answer is that just under 12,000 of the 18,000 polled 'U.S. consumers' do not take social media and related advertisements into consideration when buying things. I wouldn't be surprised if 2,000 answered "yes, I avoid every brand name I see in that annoying barrage of advertisements," but that counts as an influence, so it fell into the 'influenced' category.

      Social media advertising either influences or it doesn't.

      And whether social media influences you does not matter to me. You can report your new addiction to whatever the twit-feed told you, I will continue to ignore anything on there that I cannot trace directly to a real, actual friend.

    2. Re:What's the Influence of Crappy Polling? by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      The advertising industry has methods of gauging the effect of advertising, and it does not revolve around asking people how heavily watching advertising affects their purchases. It involves crazy things like actually measuring the number of units sold.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:What's the Influence of Crappy Polling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And two massive online advertisers have their names on a well-reasoned paper claiming that it doesn't matter...

      http://justinmrao.com/lewis_ra...

    4. Re:What's the Influence of Crappy Polling? by Stormy+Dragon · · Score: 2

      There's all kinds of psychological research showing that people's perceptions of what motivates them is wildly different from what actually motivates them:

      Why People Choose Coke Over Pepsi

      In a study of exactly that question, four French and four German wines, matched for price and dryness, were placed on the shelves of a supermarket in England. French and German music were played on alternate days from a tape deck on the top shelf of the display. And indeed, on days when the French music played, 77 percent of the wine purchased was French, while on the days of German music, 73 percent of the wine purchased was German. Clearly, the music was a crucial factor in which type of wine shoppers chose to buy, but when asked whether the music influenced their choice, only one shopper in seven said that it had.

      In another study, subjects were given three different boxes of detergent and asked to try them all out for a few weeks, then report on which they liked best and why. One box was predominantly yellow, another blue, and the third was blue with splashes of yellow. In their reports the subjects overwhelmingly favored the detergent in the box with mixed colors. Their reports included much about the relative merits of the detergents, but none mentioned the box. Why should they? A pretty box doesn’t make the detergent work better. But in reality it was just the box that differed – the detergents inside were all identical.

  33. I'd like the whole advertising economy to go poof by argStyopa · · Score: 2

    ....since I suspect it's based more on consensual delusions & back-scratching within the industry than actual data.

    Does Nike *actually* get $3 million more profit if they have a superbowl ad, than if they didn't? If they don't, then do they really need to pay that cutie-pie that is the assistant to the assistant director $85k/year to fetch donuts and sort the mail? Or the still photographer an annualized contract rate of $160k/year to shoot the 'making of the commercial' art book pictures? Aside from the shlubs who sling lights and mikes and do the tech work, the media industry is generally staggeringly overcompensated. I wonder when someone will notice?

    --
    -Styopa
  34. "Secular Decline" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF does that even mean?

  35. Just like most advertising. by superdave80 · · Score: 2

    Most advertising doesn't really affect buying decisions. Sometimes you might see something new, but mostly it's Coke, Budwiser, etc., things that everyone has known about for decades.

    The funniest online ads I see are when I search for or buy something... and then see an ad for that exact thing a few minutes later on some sidebar ad. Hey, dipshits, I already know about that thing you just advertised BECAUSE I JUST WENT ONLINE TO LOOK FOR IT AND BUY IT!

    This is a little bit like paying someone to hold up a sign for Ford cars to show to people that have just left a Ford car lot.

    1. Re:Just like most advertising. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most advertising doesn't really affect buying decisions. Sometimes you might see something new, but mostly it's Coke, Budwiser, etc., things that everyone has known about for decades.

      These types of ads work on a different level... sure you know Coke exists and have for many years... but I bet every time you see a Coke ad, you get a mild craving for one... maybe another soft drink, maybe a Sprite or Dr. Pepper, or whatever you prefer... but the ad likely affects you, even if you don't notice it.

      The funniest online ads I see are when I search for or buy something... and then see an ad for that exact thing a few minutes later on some sidebar ad. Hey, dipshits, I already know about that thing you just advertised BECAUSE I JUST WENT ONLINE TO LOOK FOR IT AND BUY IT!

      This is a little bit like paying someone to hold up a sign for Ford cars to show to people that have just left a Ford car lot.

      Again, showing someone a Ford ad right after buying a Ford works on another level. It's not that you don't know about the Ford you just bought, but by seeing that ad, it reaffirms that you made a good decision. You just made the neurological connections that make you feel good about buying a Ford, so that next time you are car shopping, you'll likely buy a Ford again. Also, you end up telling your friends about your Ford purchase because you're proud of it.

      I once knew a guy, after talking quite a bit about how great Toyota SUVs were (this was early 2000's), said "If I didn't always buy Chevy, I'd definitely consider a Toyota!" ... he admitted that Toyota made the better SUV, but bought Chevy because he always had.

  36. Who is actually influenced by ads?? by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    I honestly don't understand the effectiveness of advertising, but that's just because I ignore most of it, and of the stuff that gets put in front of me, none of it influences a single purchase decision I make. I would much rather see a product for myself or rely on a non-sponsored recommendation from an acquaintance.

    It boggles my mind that there are humans that are controllable enough to fall for the "Oooo, here's an ad!" --> "Let's click on it!" --> "Psychologically engaging content designed to sell me something" --> "Let's buy that!" chain of events. It must work, otherwise there wouldn't be a whole science behind advertising / consumer psychology, but I don't get it.

    It seems to me that if you have a good product, it will sell itself and all you need to do is get a few people to try and recommend it to their friends. If you can do that, then you're just wasting money on traditional ads. Everybody knows Rice Krispies exist, and some people find them tasty. Why does Kellogg's have to tell the world over and over again that they exist?

    Oh well, I'm not looking forward to the 40+% drop in stock market values that's coming with the next bubble pop, but I guess that's the way the new new economy goes.

    1. Re:Who is actually influenced by ads?? by Kijori · · Score: 1

      You may be right that you are completely unaffected by advertising. However, there are two things that should give you pause:
      1. The vast majority of people are regularly influenced by advertisements.
      2. The majority of people think that they are not influenced by advertisements.

      In other words, there are lots of people who think, like you, that advertising doesn't influence their decisions - and mostly they are wrong.

  37. Re:Yeah Coke isn't a billion times tastier than ot by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Coke isn't a billion times tastier than Joe's cola. It sells a billion times as much because it's been advertised a billion times as much.

    I prefer [Mexican, sugar-based] Coca-Cola to pretty much every other cola out there on the basis of flavor, no matter how much advertising I consume. Which for me, is very little. I probably hear more commercials while shopping than in the rest of my life combined because I consume streaming and not broadcast media, and I use ad blockers.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  38. This is no surprise to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Having worked as a "senior technologist" at an advertising firm before coming to my senses to going into back systems programming, all technology related to marketing is bullshit. They just throw it at a wall and see what sticks.

  39. What ads by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    With Adguard, and Adblock Plus, I can't remember the last time I saw an ad. And, the ones that do, just right click, BOOM! Gone!

  40. It can work well if done correctly by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2

    I have clients who have basically thrown their money into a facebook toilet; and I also have clients who have reaped huge benefits. The key for the ones where it worked was that they knew exactly who their customers were and very carefully measured the results and could then compare the value they got from facebook as compared to all other media including billboards. Facebook was the hands down winner and was more than 100x cheaper than things like radio on a per customer generated basis. On a side note billboards were far less effective but the best of the traditional media.

    But that only applied for a few narrow products. I don't think it would work very well for a high commitment product such as a car. I would not be surprised if the car companies have tried facebook and spent more in advertising per customer generated than they got back in profit per car. For instance I would recommend facebook for a TV show on tonight, and as a reminder to listen to some radio show. But it would require highly targeted advertising. So for Game of Thrones it probably isn't too hard for them to nail GOT watchers on Facebook with pinpoint accuracy and to make sure the ads were even episode specific. But for NBC to remind people to just watch NBC in general, probably a waste of money.

    So basically I would dismiss anyone who makes any generalizations about social media advertising as either being good or bad. It is a very specific tool that is very good for a narrow range of jobs.

    1. Re:It can work well if done correctly by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      We have a yarn store. When we started it about three years ago, the problem was nobody knew we existed.

      We got measurable and worthwhile returns from Facebook advertising.
      We got diddly squat measurable returns after giving money to Google.
      We advertised in the local paper. It's not obvious that the people it brought in covered or will cover the cost of advertising.
      We participated in a local yarn store community event (http://www.rosecityyarncrawl.com/) and have had 2X the business ever since.

      There are people who want what you've got to sell. If you can connect with them in a way that is not obnoxious, then it'll succeed.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  41. Not surprised by EdZep · · Score: 1

    ...by the poll results, of a majority of people saying the social media ads have no influence on them. I'm kind of surprised that anyone expected otherwise. How many of us would say that traditional print, TV and radio ads have influenced us? Most would say they've not been affected. (And, some of those claims would actually be correct.) Yet, money keeps pouring into advertising, so, the ad buyers are convinced that it does make a difference.

  42. VS TV Advertising by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    And if they surveyed people on how much TV advertising affected their buying decisions I wonder what the result would be? Above or below 30 percent? And what multiple of social media ad spend is spent on TV advertising again? 10x, 100x? By thatmettroic everyone in America better say they are not only affected by TV ads, but they cause them to buy two of everything.

  43. Humans have exceptionally small attention spans by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    I know rice krispies exist, and I may like them okay. But if all I see are frosted flakes and lucky charms, I might forget about my beloved rice krispies. If they're not in front of my eyes when I make a shopping list, I might just replace that box of frosted flakes that's getting low.

    More to the point, if I'm looking for a new car -even just thinking about it (or dreaming about it), I might click on an ad for a car I might not normally chose just to see some pretty pictures and feel-good video about how happy people are in their new Foo SUV. And it may not make a difference to me, but it might if I happen to remember that beautiful couple that looks just l like what I want my GF and I too look like in a cool new vehicle with people complimenting us on our taste in fine automobiles, and it's a coin toss between that car and some other car I didn't see beautiful people fawning over in an ad that I've forgotten about but is still in my subconscious.

    Because then it's not a decision, it's just a feeling that I like Foo SUVs over everything else 'cause they just feel happier. Yeah. I just like them better. There was never any advertising that influenced me. Sure I saw the ad, but it didn't really make a difference, I just like this one better. And advertising played no role at all, and the money that company spent was clearly wasted because I would have bought that car anyway.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Humans have exceptionally small attention spans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rice Krispies are marketed to children. Children have exceptionally small attention spans, and poor research skills, and a higher annoyance potential than any ad if they don't get their Kellogg's Rice Krispies but some cheaper otherwise identical no name stuff. And they grow up fast, so advertisers have to hammer them while they're young, dumb and impressible.

  44. Re: Are customer able to evaulate that objectively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes i do pre pick my soap, i once broke out in hives from kirkland branded stuff so i never stray from lever2000 ever. I even take my own to a hotel as i never figured out what ingredient got me.

  45. Facebook Feedback by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    I do not know if anyone else recently clicked that Facebook: "give us feedback" link.

    I was interested in what Facebook was currently working on, so I did. It was a unabashed survey used to try and make ads less visible and more like the rest of your feed. So I think that FB would agree that 60 odd percent is a failure, but they are continually working at integrating ads better into all of our feeds so that we do not even know that they are there.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  46. Could be good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...if we never see or hear Zuckerberg again.

  47. wrong by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    62% of the more than 18,000 U.S. consumers it polled said social media had no influence on their buying decisions

    sure, there are of course individual ad campaigns that fails, but this isn't how you come to that understanding.

    while i'm not a professional "pollist", this seems tremendously flawed. first, advertising's effects are largely on the subconscious. it's not like you see an add for mcdonald's and think out loud to your self "i'm going to get some mcdonalds". it's more like you see 500 ads for mcdonalds where multicultural hipsters are hanging out and having fun eating mcdonalds on youtube and the next time you are driving through a pack of fast food restaurants, your familiarity with mcdonalds makes you lean one way. it's why restaurants like mcdonalds, burger king, taco bell, applebees, dennys, and so on make so much $. it's not because they are good, it's because people are familiar with them (usually combined with them not being terrible).

    second, people like to think they are individuals with free will. if you ask them if they are driven to purchase goods and services by ads, of course they are going to say no.

    advertising WORKS. you can see this by the fact that companies continue to up their spending, hundreds of billions year after year. if there's one thing i do know, it's that corporations like money. they wouldn't continue to shell out greater and greater sums every year if they weren't measuring positive results.

  48. Get real by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 0

    Remeber, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Most of the content on the web is seemingly free, but only because advertising covers the costs of creating new content and keeping old content available.

    Without advertising, how do you propose to cover those costs? If your solution is, "everyone who is paid to create web content should become a government employee and be paid with tax dollars," I reject your solution a priori.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
    1. Re:Get real by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      A lot of the most interesting websites I frequent are created and maintained by individuals who are enthusiastic about the topic of the page, and create the web content for no renumeration.

      Yes, that should bring a 'chill' down the spine of all you 'web programmers' who want to do it for a living. But remember there will always be sucky web pages you can develop for people who pay you to do so.

    2. Re:Get real by high_rolla · · Score: 1

      Or the more worse alternative where websites become sponsored by interested parties. (With said sponsorship maybe or maybe not being disclosed)

      X Hardware Review Website : Sponsored by Microsoft - In our latest article we discuss how the SP3 totally trumps every other tablet out there and why people are buying them by the truckload.

      Much of it may also become paywalled, which is fine when it's a small amount of the content out there but if it becomes more mainstream we end up with issues of equality where a lot of information is really only accessible to the wealthy.

      --
      Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
  49. you funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like how so many of these comments on Slashdot are along the lines of "advertisements have no effect on me". Right.

  50. Be careful what you wish for by Eravnrekaree · · Score: 1

    Many here would basically diss ads, but they might sing another tune when all of this stuff you get for free now, like email, news content, etc, ends up costing even more money out of your pocket in addition to what you spend on the internet connection itself. Be careful what you wish for. This is the sheer stupidity of the "ad busting" thing, how the hell do you think that the companies that provide these free sites to you pay their bills? Do you realise that without the ads these sites would not exist or would go behind a paywall?

    1. Re:Be careful what you wish for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll gladly accept low bandwidth low CPU ads targetted to the content I'm reading served from the servers providing the content I'm reading.
      But when the content it targetted to my searches and visits of other web sites rather than the one I'm on... I get pissed. This kind of targetting is the thing that weak brands do.
      When I turn off adblock to support a site and each new tab open to that site cranks up the load average of my system by 2... that advertising can go.

    2. Re:Be careful what you wish for by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Do you realise that without the ads these sites would not exist or would go behind a paywall?

      Ok... here's the deal.

      Suppose a click on your site pays you 0.20 cents, and the click through rate is 3%, you make 60 cents per 100 visitors. So what's the value of my visit? 0.6 cents.

      Even a site i visit daily ... 18 cents per month be ad free.

      So yes. I'd pay that amount happily. A couple bucks a month tops and I'd have an ad free internet.

      So why doesn't that work?

      a) Because the infrastructure to actually take my money costs a fortune. Processing fees, accounting, security, customer support, dispute resolution, regulatory compliance, taxes. Taking 18 cents a month from thousands of users is expensive, taking 6 tenths of a cent from a one off visitor can't be recovered. This leads to the ad-free option being exorbitantly more expensive than the ad revenue that's being compensated for.

      b) Because it gets in the way. When I hit a paywall site, I leave. I don't investigate how much it costs. It could be a $1 for a 5 years and I wouldn't even know. And even if I did in that VAST majority of cases I couldn't be bothered to go to the trouble of creating an account, entering in contact and payment information etc. The 'time and energy investment' on my part is just too high even if the financial element were nearly zero.

    3. Re:Be careful what you wish for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but I don't care.

      I grew up in an era of watching TV with an antenna and I usually left the room or changed channels with the ads came on.
      Later, you could record the TV shows and skip the ads. Now, I only ever watch TV off my DVR, just so I can skip the ads. If something is on I want to watch now, I hit pause then come back later to watch it so I can skip the ads.

      And yet they still have TV shows.

      My time is valuable. I'm not going to watch ads. I block all ads on the internet using multiple means, including on my phone. If I listen to the radio I ALWAYS change the channel when ads come on. I learned long ago that the ads are so long it is pointless to wait for them to end when there are other stations not playing ads.

      You can complain forever that I'm getting a free ride, but I don't care. You can't make me care. If advertisements were forced on me whenever I wanted to watch or listen to something, I just wouldn't bother with those things.

    4. Re:Be careful what you wish for by Animats · · Score: 1

      email

      I pay my ISP (sonic.net) for Internet access and an IMAP account on an email server. They pay for backbone bandwidth. No advertising revenue is involved.

      I pay HostGator a few dollars a month to host my web sites. No advertising revenue is involved. Hosting is amazingly cheap. Basic hosting today is cheaper than remote backup for your smartphone. If I want to put up an image, it goes on Hostgator, not some "sharing" site.

      Google's original business model was to charge ISPs for access to their search engine. If I had to pay a few dollars a month for that, it would be fine. If Google dumped ads, "search personalization" and "social", the search engine would be much cheaper to run, and they could lay off most of their sales force.

      Before we had "social networks", we had Usenet, which is completely distributed, redundant, and ad-free. Still around, too.

      Maps, though. Those are expensive. Surprisingly, most of the map systems aren't ad-heavy.

    5. Re:Be careful what you wish for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they might sing another tune when all of this stuff you get for free now, like email, news content, etc, ends up costing even more money out of your pocket in addition to what you spend on the internet connection

      You already are paying, you just don't realize it.

      how the hell do you think that the companies that provide these free sites to you pay their bills?

      Convincing you to pay inflated prices in order to pay for the ads is exactly how these "free" sites pay their bills.

    6. Re:Be careful what you wish for by bbsalem · · Score: 1

      I remember an Internet where advertising was forbidden. I also remember Google as a start up that did not manipulate the sequences of links to support its advertisers. I can tell you without shame that the Internet of those times, maybe ten or 15 years ago was better in most ways than what we have now with every dumbass business man and corporation trying to part us from our money and wasting our time. If 90% of the sites now on the Internet went belly up because their business models failed, it would still be a very valuable thing. People would still set up sites because they had something that they wanted to say and other than "buy something from me!". Another thing, The real cost of accessing the Internet reflects the sunk costs of the ISPs to lay fibre in the ground subsidized by the U.S. Congress, that is guarenteeing or supporting in some way that investment. The cost does not reflect what it would cost us if the best available technology were used today. The cost to us would likely drop and continue to drop, so we are paying for the risk taken on by the government for the investment by private businesses, a corporate welfare of sorts. If it is not cash, it is the assurance of a cartel in the service that we pay for as subsidized utility rates.

      I am not in awe of the success of business. I am sure that if people had other things they wanted to do than make money, they would find a way, such as writing web pages. I go you one step further and assert to you that human economic activity is rapidly becoming a lethal threat to mankind. What if we had to trade "likes" for Carbon equivalents?

  51. Re: Are customer able to evaulate that objectively by vux984 · · Score: 1

    Yes i do pre pick my soap, i once broke out in hives from kirkland branded stuff so i never stray from lever2000 ever

    Soap was just a proxy for 'things people buy at the grocery store', we really aren't that interested in your soap buying habits specifically here.

    And unless you break out in hives whenever you vary anything the argument holds... and if you DO break out in hives over any little change... you are hardly remotely representative of 'normal'.

  52. Re:I'd like the whole advertising economy to go po by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does Nike *actually* get $3 million more profit if they have a superbowl ad

    It's called a "Cost Benefit Analysis" and it's how every single company on the planet decides its advertising budget after the very first second of operations. It is absolutely OBSESSED over when it comes to marketing departments, because it's what feeds the beast. Seriously, you may as well ask "When are IT guys going to wake up and realize how useful it is to have electricity when they're working on a computer? Is the whole system going to collapse when everyone else realizes how much IT depends on electricity?"

  53. People don't tune out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    People learned to "tune out" ads on the radio more than 100 years ago. Then TV.

    I'm not so sure about that. As someone who literally doesn't have the opportunity to tune out ads (because I pirate things and the files simply don't have the ads), I find myself occasionally hearing non-geeks referencing TV ads. There've been many an awkward conversation where someone says something, I blank-stare not getting their point, and they say "like in that ad." Or "have you seen that commercial, where...?" or even "I want to see [name of a movie that doesn't have any reviews yet]". People are seeing and perceiving that stuff.

    If they learned to tune out, then they must have forgotten whatever it was that they learned.

    (BTW it's not like I'm any smarter or less programmable than them; I just have it firewalled off, so the attacks never get as far as my weak mind.)

    1. Re:People don't tune out by dixonpete · · Score: 1

      Ditto on that. I pirate, adblock, don't have cable or listen to the radio ( I make mix CDs). I often wonder what's happening out in ad-world..

  54. WSJ claimed by Twelfth+Harmonic · · Score: 1

    that USA will be energy independent in 30 years.
    If you know your energy, you'll be able to decide the quality of their fact checking.
    Ad revenue was mostly shooting in the dark until now. With targeted web ads, they are still shooting in the dark, but at least now they know what direction to shoot at.
    They have no better option.

  55. Re:I'd like the whole advertising economy to go po by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LMFTFY:

    The whole advertising economy's gone pouf.

  56. Survey studies by P1h3r1e3d13 · · Score: 1

    Survey studies have little to no influence on my understanding of human behavior. Who actually believes that people know what influences their purchases? At least get some real-world observation.

  57. Paywalls by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    If you want to force people into it, then put your content behind a paywall. Then you will find out what it is really worth.

    Be careful what you wish for. Without taking sides on the ad blocker debate, I'm just going to point out that:

    1. the most valuable content that is available freely (not behind a paywall) today is exactly the content that could successfully be moved behind a paywall tomorrow, and

    2. a lot of significant parts of the modern web, from discussion sites like this one to services like search engines and social networks, provide indirect benefits rather than content of their own that can be similarly monetized, and if you take away their funding model we don't yet have distributed, community driven alternatives of the same quality to fill the gaps.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Paywalls by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      1. Then someone will start a free version that people will flock to. The paywalled existing site will now have to justify charging money by competing with the new free site. If they fail to, the paywalled site dies. If the net eventually ends up like subscription tv with all its bullshit, unskippable ads, then it's value has approached zero anyway. abp is a reaction to the invasiveness of scripted ads. I have no sympathy. This alone is justification to remove scripting from browsers.

      2. good riddance to sites like facebook. If it needs to sell out to advertising like that, it's gotten too top heavy, and yes that includes slashdot. It should not cost megabucks to run a site that posts links and pushes/pulls the text volume of a discussion board. The problem is that people want to profit more than the model realistically allows, so they pump it full of invasive ads and then cry victim when people block them. While search is a necessary function, today it comes with a large monkey on its back that it could do without, in the form of excessive surveillance, to back up the ad model (and give a feed to governments masquerading as defenders of freedom). 'social media' is a toxin that needs cleansing from the net, period.

    2. Re:Paywalls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Be careful what you wish for.

      We won't see the rise of paywalls, but we will see the rise of "ad-walls."

      All the profiling data that is collected on us makes it possible to discriminate on viewers. Right now all those poor people in 3rd world countries are "free-loading" - they just don't have enough money to make advertising to them worth it. I expect the ad networks to start paying based on the "quality" of the ad viewer (in a sense they already do, with google's auction system some narrowly targeted ads like for charitable car donations and certain class-action lawsuits can cost $100+ per view). But it will get to the point where poor people generate zero ad revenue no matter how many ads you show them. So websites will start blocking "zero revenue" viewers and in terms of the health of the internet, that will effectively be the same thing as a paywall.

      > if you take away their funding model we don't yet have distributed, community driven alternatives of the same quality to fill the gaps.

      I've long believed that the ad-supported model killed both micro-payments and distributed development. Without ad revenues there will be more incentive to develop distributed systems. Its kind of a chicken-or-the-egg situation, but 15+ years hasn't yielded shit for distributed systems so I'm thinking that mixing it up can't retard distributed development any more than it already is.

    3. Re:Paywalls by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I've long believed that the ad-supported model killed both micro-payments and distributed development.

      I don't know about "killed", but I'd certainly agree with "arrived first and captured the market".

      IMHO the most honest and transparent way to support worthwhile (but possibly worth-serious-money) content on-line would probably be some sort of universal micropayments system. Unfortunately, we don't have one yet, so the main commercially viable alternatives right now are free access (inevitably requiring funding some other way, such as advertising or affiliate fees) or charging significant amounts for access (paywalls).

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:Paywalls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Putting search engines behind paywall is silly. Back in my days I have seen companies having free search engines became the biggest companies in the world...................... ahh youth nowadays.........

  58. your nick indicates your favorite drinky is by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Your nick indicates your favorite drinky is something other than sugared soda. Two Slashdotters one cup?

    1. Re:your nick indicates your favorite drinky is by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Your nick indicates your favorite drinky is something other than sugared soda. Two Slashdotters one cup?

      It's a reference to the alcoholism of my late father, and his father, and pretty much my whole family except for me in fact. I don't actually know if that's what killed him, but I picked up the name before then. My nickname/login has been "drink" since about '91 but just try getting a five-character english word as a name anywhere. Sadly, it looks like the name was recycled shortly after I registered this account, but I didn't notice. I'd have traded that much UID for my preferred login.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  59. I resemble that by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That sounds a lot like my family. 18 years clean and sober here.

    1. Re:I resemble that by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That sounds a lot like my family. 18 years clean and sober here.

      Not me! But so far, I just don't have a problem not drinking, or whatever. Sure hope it stays that way. I don't use drinking to escape, unless I'm escaping sore muscles maybe.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:I resemble that by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I never really started drinking the stuff. It seemed safer. One result is that I don't have any craving or desire, so I have no problem with other people drinking around me, or having bottles of the stuff in the house.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  60. young or very fortunate by raymorris · · Score: 1

    From what I've been learning, there is a particular gene associated with chronic, hardcore alcoholism.* If it runs in your family, I hope you're as careful with alcohol as you would be with any other deadly poison. If you haven't drank much yet, it can grab hold of you without warning.

    Of course if you're in your 40s and have done plenty of drinking without any trouble, you may be comfortable that you dodged that particular bullet.

    * not to be confused with simple hard drinking. I refer to thekind of alcoholism where people literally drink themselves to death because they can not stop.

    1. Re:young or very fortunate by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Of course if you're in your 40s and have done plenty of drinking without any trouble, you may be comfortable that you dodged that particular bullet.

      I don't know about "any trouble". What I've noticed about my family is that they are not strong on personal responsibility. Lots of excuses. I don't imagine that you get to use alcohol as an excuse. It might be an explanation, but it excuses nothing.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  61. I wonder why by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    I'm looking at a window right behing this one with Facebook open where there's a scam ad lying about government discounts on life insurance. Nobody with an IQ over 70 would click on that or take it seriously. So if someone actually had a moderately priced CPU or SSD for sale, which I could normally buy, I'd assume it's a scam site. They ruined it by making it all look bad.

  62. Short FB and TWTR stock? by ayesnymous · · Score: 1

    Is the article suggesting we short FB and TWTR stock?

  63. Re: Are customer able to evaulate that objectively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > if you DO break out in hives over any little change... you are hardly remotely representative of 'normal'.

    However, the fact that he does have brand loyalty for at least some regularly purchased products makes him absolutely normal. Even people who dont' stick to just one brand typically have a short list of brands that they will pick from based on whatever is cheapest today and any brand not on that list won't be considered without considerable prodding (typically major discounting but sometimes just saturation advertising).

    If you think he's abnormal for any of that, you are simply out of touch with the way of the world.

  64. Advertising is very influential by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your narcissism prevents you from understanding how the real world operates, where advertising is actually DESIRED, because people are interested in other people's lives, and becoming like those people.

    People with no lives of their own might be very interested in other people's lives. It's a form of escapism. People who are very insecure and unhappy with their lives want to become like other people.

    What you are saying is that advertising is desired by dysfunctional people. Maybe so. Would you not rather see these people become functional again than be exploited by advertisers?

  65. @kwbauer - Re:Tuning it out? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    most people ... don't waste energy trying to extract some form of revenge in such a useless manner

    I also react negatively to out-of-context adverts. It isn't "revenge". If I see a company obviously spending a lot on ads i consider that less of my money will be going into quality. For example I recently bought a pressure washer and deliberately avoided Karcher because their ads are everywhere - even on the back of my heavily used road atlas in case I forget. Knowing how much adverts cost, so I am guessing that at least half of what a Karcher washer costs is going on its adverts.

    Other ads are just so damn silly that I don't want to be associated with the product - especially some beer and lager adverts tend to show a complete and utter wanker as the "hero", typically on the theme that everything in his life goes wrong (because he is an idiot) but he gets consolation by drinking a pint of their brand. Sorry, I don't identify with them, and don't want to either.

  66. That's what they want you to think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All that data we're gathering? No worries, it has no effect on your preferences. Nothing to see here, carry on.

  67. Ads by Winkkin · · Score: 1

    You can bet your bottom dollar if you force a flash movie on me and I have to pause it, your product just made my "never buy" list.

  68. Re:Yeah Coke isn't a billion times tastier than ot by painandgreed · · Score: 1

    Coke isn't a billion times tastier than Joe's cola. It sells a billion times as much because it's been advertised a billion times as much.

    I prefer [Mexican, sugar-based] Coca-Cola to pretty much every other cola out there on the basis of flavor, no matter how much advertising I consume. Which for me, is very little. I probably hear more commercials while shopping than in the rest of my life combined because I consume streaming and not broadcast media, and I use ad blockers.

    A friend of mine used to have movie nights with a considerable number of people. I brought some Canadian Coke (also sugar based) and decided to do my own blind taste test with corn syrup Coke. In every single case, between two unmarked glasses, everybody picked the sugar Coke as being better than the corn syrup Coke.

  69. Death to Social Media! by bbsalem · · Score: 1

    Social Media reminds me of the Coliseum in Rome. It was built to placate the citizens of the capital with greusome and meaningless spectacle, while the Empire destroyed the last vestiges of the Republic. The Senate had become the rubber stamp of a ruling oligarchy, just like the U.S. Congress is becomming. What really makes me angry about Social Media is that its prattle is replacing real human events on broadcast news and that the people being brought in a much more marketing types that journalists, on the News Broadcasts, remember. Crap like what is "trending" on Twitter or You Tube.

    Social media is fickle and shallow, a bunch of fleeting impressions, something forgotten after a "like". If you don't believe me, consider how little has really changed in Egypt and places where Twitter was supposed to have brought change, nothing. The reason is that after that facile interest is very simple sentiments, nothing happens because the real work, which requires sustained concentration, still has to be done the old way which entrenched power structures know how to manage.

    Some obviously marketer type pointed out here the the OP's cited study is flawed because it doesn't take into account the subliminal effects of the advertising, but that it can't be measured. Well, if it can't be measured then how can the effect of social media be judged? A different approach is to judge if there is that much more room to squeeze ads on existing social media sites, and is the available resource built out into a bubble that is about to burst? I don't know, but I am hoping so. Like in 2000, maybe the expectation of investors has raced out ahead of the ability of the Social Media Companies to deliver continued growth and one day soon they will wake up and start pulling their money. That seems to be a foregone conclusion about the way investment and markets work, so one can hope. I would love tp see Social Media fall from favor, if not funding, to see something better than websites with blogs as the form of communication and discussion. I am hoping that the cited study really reveals is saturation and boredom and that even if Social Media on the Internet isn't dead that people who really want to talk and solve the world's pressing problems will take it off to the Dark Net or some non IP network and kick the money changers out of the temple.

  70. does it say anything about... by issicus · · Score: 1

    Slashdot's audio ads? when ever I hear some bullshit coming out of my speakers I close/reload slashdot. what does that do for your ad revenue .

  71. not once you know by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Interesting. As someone who had alcohol as a reason, I agree it wasn't an excuse. Not for long, anyway. When I was 16, I acted like an idiot because I was drunk. When I was 18, I KNEW that getting drunk would result in me acting like an idiot. When I was 20, I stopped getting drunk so I would stop acting like an idiot.

    I don't think my brother had exactly the same choice. He had an overwhelming compulsion to drink when he was 20. I don't blame him for being unable to resist. When he was 21, he was introduced to a group of other people who had the same compulsion, but they also had a solution. They were sober alcoholics. They told him how he could get sober and stay sober . It was only after the solution was shown to him that it became his responsibility to do it, in my view.

    1. Re:not once you know by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I don't think my brother had exactly the same choice. [...] It was only after the solution was shown to him that it became his responsibility to do it, in my view.

      Well, I don't disagree with you with the latter part, but I think that we mostly lie to ourselves about the likely outcomes of our decisions in order to justify them, and the challenge is not doing that. But I suspect it's a learned behavior at least as much as an innate one. This is really about just integrating the lesson for me, not about blaming anyone else. I don't need to assign people a karmic balance or a sin level or whatever, so I don't need to blame your brother for alcoholism.

      I did have my father to point to as an example of why alcoholism is bad, so that surely helped. But lots of people have that and then go on to be alcoholics.

      Anyway, we keep a liquor cabinet and stack in piles of beer. Probably split a 22 of something fancy with my lady more days than not. But my serious drinking days ended with my twenties, and I've never had a blackout. On rare occasions (like, maybe three) I've said some pretty shitty things to people that sounded great in my head until right after they came out, and that was enough to scare me sensible. Not sober, just sensible :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  72. Professionally-developed content by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    Hobbyists and amateurs will always be free to create content; but a professional news-gathering organization, or a site like C|NET that attempts to provide impartial product reviews, needs ad revenue. Heck, even Slashdot needs some revenue to keep the lights on.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  73. peakads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://peakads.org/

  74. Hmmm, should I log into Facebook this month? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    Do I feel the need to flag the next thousand adverts I'm sent as being repetitive, sexually explicit and misleading, in alternating sequence? And then look to see if anyone I know has done anything interesting that I didn't know about. Then log out again for another couple of months.

    Web 2.0? Yeah. Right.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"