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UK Government Report Recommends Ending Online Anonymity
An anonymous reader writes with a bit of pith from TechDirt: Every so often, people who don't really understand the importance of anonymity or how it enables free speech (especially among marginalized people), think they have a brilliant idea: "just end real anonymity online." They don't seem to understand just how shortsighted such an idea is. It's one that stems from the privilege of being in power. And who knows that particular privilege better than members of the House of Lords in the UK — a group that is more or less defined by excess privilege? The Communications Committee of the House of Lords has now issued a report concerning "social media and criminal offenses" in which they basically recommend scrapping anonymity online.
Maybe they forgot that the Internet has no borders?
Dumb as a bag of rocks.
All Brits officially change there name to anonymous coward. Problem solved.
Fuck you.
UK will also legislate the new greeting as Assalamu alaikum next. Be prepared.
What a backwards country.
You disregard all the harm that anonymity causes online, from bullying, to hate speech, to terrorism.
I'm not saying the argument for Freedom of Expression is irrelevant, but the other perspective has legitimate concerns as well.
Pro-anonymity advocates have been saying for years that Freedom of Expression will fix all ills but we've seen a substantial rise of bullying, hate speech and terrorism-advocacy in the past decade. Saying that people will find the truth so long as it's out there, somewhere, does not seem to be working. Great in theory but doesn't work in practice.
We need to find a middle ground that will help curtain online abuse with minimal impact on Freedom of Speech, but the statue quo is not sustainable.
when members of the house of lords or house of commons get their and their families' now-non-anonymous use of the internet publicized? you know damn well they aren't all squeaky clean, and i'd wager the vast majority of them have done something online that the 'public face of the government' says is a no-no.
...that's just a committee report from a somewhat powerless and usually out of touch chamber.
We're all screwed.
Embrace the horror, drink beer, watch bad TV, listen to them when they tall you all is fine.
That, or start voting from the rooftops, your choice, we're all fucked anyway.
The New World Order of Fascists is almost complete, so why bother with the social niceties any more?
If government wants to have peeps into our private lives, I say they should offer themselves up first. Have every government employee's financial records, emails, purchases, and other records completely public. Install GPS trackers on them so we can all track their movement. Put cameras in their homes, cars, and offices so that we can watch them 24/7.
If they want the panopticon, let them go first.
If you read the proposal by the House of Lords, it's completely infeasible. What they want is for websites to have verified identity information on hand, but then allow people to post anonymously or using a pseudonym. This is infeasible for several reasons, mostly that to truly verify someone's identity, you need a government-issued ID number. I'm not British, but in the US, that would be the Social Security Number. Now, let me tell you what happens when a government forces SSN identification for things that should not need an SSN.
Some time ago, there was an insanely popular MMORPG in South Korea known as Lineage 2. The administrators behind Lineage 2 (I believe the game was owned by Microsoft but I can't say for sure) required that anyone registering a Lineage 2 account (which required a monthly fee) give them their Korean Social Security Number (KSSN) which works exactly like the US SSN does. I don't recall whether this was because the Korean government was scared of anonymity and demanded it, or because the game's owners wanted it for verification and were not required to get KSSNs by the government, but in any case, a KSSN was required to play the game.
A few years later, Lineage 2 got hacked. The database of KSSNs they had was leaked, meaning that the identities of thousands of people were freely available on the internet. After the Korean government learned of the Lineage 2 hack, they actually tightened their restrictions - all MMORPGs operating in Korea were now required to ask for a KSSN upon account registration, even for F2P games.
The result is that any time an MMORPG gets hacked in Korea, KSSNs get dumped. It also led to things like mass identity theft - players from outside Korea who wanted to play the Korean version of various MMOs (the ones based in Korea are usually regularly updated in Korean but not in the International versions) would have to find a leaked KSSN and use it.
Requiring an identity verification for anything but the most major financial transactions (insurance, banks, employment) should never happen. A credit card verification is different - you can verify a credit or debit card without needing an SSN - and should be enough for pretty much everywhere.
It greases up communication. If I had to attach my name permanently to this comment, at best I would have to spend 15 minutes fully thinking out every implication of it, at worst I would likely not make it at all.
However using either AC or a pseudonym I can post my initial thoughts and let someone else support/refute some of the points using their own personal experience and knowledge.
One arrives to the truth much faster by collaborative debate than by solitary thinking or not posting at all.
That's cray-cray! Here I thought the members of the House of Lords were defined by the fact that they were appointed by the monarch on the advice of the Prime Minister, not on the basis of being "excessively privileged."
Every so often, people who don't really understand the importance of anonymity or how it enables free speech (especially among marginalized people), think they have a brilliant idea: "just end real anonymity online."
I disagree. These people understand perfectly well the importance of anonymity. Which is precisely why they want it banned.
At a local pizza shop. I placed my order
and paid cash. She asked:
Q: May I have your name sir?
A: Yes
After a while I hear on the speaker.
"Yes, your pizza is ready".
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
They don't seem to understand just how shortsighted such an idea is.
It's not short sighted AT ALL. It may not be conducive to your view of how things and/or the internet should work but it isn't a short sighted suggestion in any way, shape, or form. It works, 100%, towards their true goals and aspirations - to hold people accountable for what they say, to better track who is saying what, and to shut people up. They may attempt to sell it as beneficial for something else to make it more favourable to the public, but that's their goal and it's a long term goal which ending anonymity would accomplish in both the short term and long term.
Nothing short sighted about it at all.
Down just about 4%.
Idiocracy is what the USA is becoming with its pro-religion, anti-science path.
V for Vendetta is what the UK is becoming with its cameras everywhere, suspect everybody who's not in a position of power attitude.
The UK needs this to criminally charge people who use slurs like "faggot," "nigger," or "british."
Sorry. No one can end anonymity online; it's impossible. Even with IP monitoring, deep packet inspection, token requirements, you name it. There are some very clever people working towards maintaining anonymity, and they will not be dissuaded from their goals.
I think this is a great idea. Freedom of speech / expression doesn't require anonymity. Everyone seems to forget that we had freedom of speech before the internet and for freedom of speechm to work, you actually need some basic rules of fair play. This protect other basic rights which are required for society of work. I.e. You need to be able to stop people being hateful, terrorising or bullying each other. You also need to stop things which might negatively affect national security, publc safety and basic human right.
cant support those pesky freedoms now can we?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
After many clicks, I came finally to the real report and the section on Anonymity.
http://www.publications.parlia...
and the bold part is here,
From our perspective in the United Kingdom, if the behaviour which is currently criminal is to remain criminal and also capable of prosecution, we consider that it would be proportionate to require the operators of websites first to establish the identity of people opening accounts but that it is also proportionate to allow people thereafter to use websites using pseudonyms or anonymously. There is little point in criminalising certain behaviour and at the same time legitimately making that same behaviour impossible to detect. We recognise that this is a difficult question, especially as it relates to jurisdiction and enforcement.
So it seems they are not complete idiots, just trying to make things easier for investigative purposes. How they want people to identify themselves, well, that's another story.
Your truly,
A.C.
CAPTCHA: thanks
UK house of lords wants to have veto right on legislation.
The UK Government recommends scrapping anonymous users.
As an anonymous user I recommend scrapping the UK Government.
Hi, I'd like to create an account. Oh, you need my "real" name and address? Sure:
George W Bush
Walker's Point
Kennebunkport, ME 04046
Oh yes, please do sign me up for advertisements from your partners! And I love newsletters and can't get enough insurance offers.
There has never been true anonymity on the internet. Anonymity is an illusion. There have always been ways to identify people over the internet.
If you're going to write about people not understanding things, then confusing the conclusion of a House of Lords report with the position of the UK government does not help.
David Anderson
http://balder.org/judea/Hate-Speech-Laws-Immigration-Jewish-Influence-Britain.php
It's all right there, undeniable facts - the Jews have taken away our right to free speech, so we can't protest about their ongoing crimes against us.
cold dead hands.
Since at least The Federalist Papers. I'm glad they didn't succeed then, and I hope they don't succeed now.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
I am in sympathy, but overuse of the class warfare meme-du-jure "privilege" makes me wanna pee on a puppy.
Anonymity of speech is a core aspect of freedom of speech, and is needed to prevent retribution against speakers.
Believe it or not, this includes retribution by cliques of folks who speak "check your privilege" every other paragraph. They want to expose, say, petition signers to get things on a ballot for the expressed (literally) purpose of harassing them, which the Supreme Court found "troubling", even as it approved the FOI request.
Anonymity protects everyone from all would-be centers of power.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
They Want this and have nothing to hide . All UK government and Worker at all Level will be the First to Have their Anonymity removed during the Trial Phase of this experiment and not just at Work but home too and their family . Let them explain to their sibling that's what they want for everybody .
I wished all these online new measure was Tested on those who propose it First (US or UK ).
If they love North Korea so much let's buy them ticket there.
Totalitarian regime at their feet, they can spy all day long without any anonymity. Shoot the crowds with the real bullets.
Dreams can come true. Just put your fat asses on the plane to North Korea.
Meeting held under this rule do not allow the the disclosure of who said what. The "what" can be reported, but no-one is permitted to say who said it. That permits people to express views, or ask "what if" questions (and get considered, informed answers) without having to always play to the (media) audience and make guarded, ambiguous and watered-down statements.
Since the government recognises the value of these sorts of meetings (as well as the established protocol of "off the record" briefings, which cannot be quoted) it's ludicrous that they would think that removing anonymity would be a good idea. This can only be one of those "silly season" media reports, usually made up by journalists who are bored as politicians are away during the summer months.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I know the spying, healthcare cost hike-causing, horrible foreign policy bullshit is dead and buried in 2 years when Obama goes out of office. I mean seriously, the presidential candidates have 2 options. Be against the ACA or lose. So when does that happen in England? When do those camera-placing, filter-enabling, anti-privacy morons get booted out of office? Please tell me it's not a lifetime term.
How the heck did this turn into a discussion of "privilege"? Yeash. Everything is not about "privilege" and the good guys vs the bad guys isn't defined by who has more "privilege". The idea of ending anonymity online is important for everyone, not just the "less privileged". In most cases, when a website has a comments section which is based on Facebook usernames, I just don't comment at all. I really don't need anyone mining my comments 5 or 10 years from now, so I just flat-out refuse to participate on those discussions, for fear that my comments will be taken out of context or misunderstood and then used against me. That creates a chilling effect for free speech *for everyone*.
But as far as the internet is concerned, I have ten names and none of them are my real one.
Until the day we are all implanted with impossible-to-fake brain implants, and communications online become 100% secure, then there is really no real way to prove who someone is by whatever device was used (or password) anyway. Any kind of biometric can be faked (or will someday) and any kind of security can be breached. You can make it harder for criminals, but not for long anyway.
Has nobody here ever let a friend use their phone or PC in their lives? Or used one owned by someone else? It's one thing to get a false positive when it's something repairable like a "stolen identity" but it's far worse to get a false positive when someone's freedom or life is at stake. It's a shame politicians (and even some IT professionals) just don't seem to understand such a simple concept.
Oh wait, the brain implants are probably on their way.
I didn't realize we still have online anonymity, especially after all the hardware hacks and backdoors and stuff from the Snowden leaks
Please register this complaint and forward all communications to my personal office in the royal kingdom of the most humble Crown prince of Nigeria. Verification of my Identity is of foremost importance as is verification of your office and position. My officers would be pleased to but their burden is so high. For a nominal fee to WESTERN UNION we could please verify the legitimacy of your government, right of governance and personal details so that I may speed the process to perform the handshake. Please verify my identity my name is Mr Fu kmeoff Crown prince to be
Ending the UK government.
Prosecuting its past and present leaders for a vast choice of crimes spreading from war in irak to destroying civil liberties, not even mentioning snowden.
Shooting the royal inbred dead.
with the exception of direct and tangible harm to bodies, human health, liberty, and property, no conduct should be criminal in the first place. And if some folks find things that facilitate freedom conducive to their allegedly improper conduct, then I am all for it.
US History provides a clue.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/lords-select/communications-committee/membership/
Meeja people (Bakewell), Pensioned off politicos (Dubs, Fookes), a bishop, and various others we have never heard of (I'm in UK). No engineers. This committee produced a report last year suggesting that the Broadband would in the future replace broadcast TV... Us engineers couldn't believe our eyes, but sadly someone listened, and we may well lose our UHF TV broadcast bands at WARC-15 to the mobile phone lobby. I would treat it all as a joke but apparently people who should know better do listen to them.
So how are they going to make me, an American, register those who are using my remailer on a server in the Netherlands?
No. Because that suggests we are in part for it and only negotiating conditions.
You know they would be against this, and we are not in a position to negotiate. So stop the bluster until you have something to contribute.
The techdirt article quotes this delicious excerpt:
I can't even say I really disagree with that reasoning. Can't you see how there are two completely different ways to reach a conclusion from that paragraph?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Given that they *ALREADY* disallow anonimity online for any sort of korean online service, game, etc.
Honestly Korea seems to be the current trending state for a number of things the US/UK/etc are aiming for, and vice versa.
Suckers read stuff like this, and think it is about the UK. IT IS NOT. It is about the UK encouraging unthinkable oppressive behaviour in regimes that the UK supports. "If Britain says this is good for society, we can implement it here" says every leader of every extremist regime in the West's sphere of influence.
The UK itself has no need for such draconian actions that only run the risk of backfiring, and damaging the powerbase of the elites in control. The citizens of the UK are self-regulating, good little sheeple, with no taste for social revolt. Unlike the USA, there is no tradition of 'freedom fighting' in the UK. Rights bodies in the UK are all government funded and controlled.
But the 'example' the UK still sets to much of the world is one of the elites greatest assets. High profile cases of prosecutions of Brits for online anti-war or 'defamation' or 'offensive' speech have been used to justify legal frameworks eliminating online free speech in many African, Asian, and Middle East nations.
PS Boko Haram terrorists in Nigeria all use the mobile phone network to stay in touch. These networks are operated by companies from the West, and as you should know, they track the position of ALL phones within the reception area of a 'cell' tower all the time, in real time. Yet curiously, the members of Boko Haram manage to remain mostly 'anonymous'. But then Hillary Clinton spent two years plus at the UN demanding that Boko Haram NOT (yes- "NOT") be declared a terror organisation. When it benefits the West to have terror groups created by the West (Boko Haram is funded, trained, armed and controlled by Saudi Arabia and the USA, as part of the project to build 'Greater' Saudi Arabia) operating 'anonymously', all of a sudden issues of anonymity no longer matter.
Online critics of the West's stooges that 'rule' Nigeria must never be anonymous. But the West's terrorists that carry out the most unthinkable atrocities in Nigeria are free to be 'ghosts'.
that they are doing it because every single one of them is a spy for a child molestation criminal conspiracy ring. I have it on good authority that each and every single member of the house of commons is on the ring's pay. And they are trying to prevent the anonymous exposures such as this one.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
... is saying mean things about them.
We've seen a good deal of this in the US with establishment politicians... no names mentioned because their allies will reflexively defend them. They get criticized and the politicians have no one they can strike back at... which for much of the establishment is their default response to attack. They either ignore it or undermine/put pressure upon the people that did it.
The recent abuses of federal bureaucracy to attack political rivals should highlight the danger of giving politicians this sort of access. They could for example trigger punitive tax audits or start burdening political enemies with hostile regulations.
This is not new. Politicians have done this sort of thing for at least a hundred years in the US alone.
The anonymity takes away their ability to hurt the people criticizing them which increases the likelihood that they'll be forced to simply respond to the criticism directly.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It gets expensive. You have to find an ip thats not yours every time. Late night you slip up just once and the resulting filtering, sorting will find you.
Add in the use of encryption or other acts will make the gov track all strange packets they find. The more they have to look, the more time and cash will flow until the reason why a person wanted anonymity or used encryption is uncovered.
A person would have to change all their computer hardware, software, never visit the same sites as their legal account, never use the same methods, slang, names, country - perfectly, every time they wanted anonymity. After a few years that gets to be a skill. The gov contractors and mercenaries have years to wait for that one slip up.
Also the people around you might have been turned many years ago when they slipped up one night.
It also depends on the other ip you use. If the account just looks at golf and work, to see the same 'persons' ip suddenly use encryption could be easily noted.
Lists go both ways, the normal to find stand out events and the users of encryption.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Yes, but what we want to do is stop the illusion.
There is still a "house of lords"??? Is it the 18th century?
Not that I think that's an excuse to remove anonymity entirely... only that I'm saying I can see the merit behind the reasoning. If somebody comes up with a system that ensures that people can be fairly held legally responsible for everything that they do online, while still being anonymous, I'm sure if they can box that formula, they'd make billions.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
"Parliamentary system" mainly refers to the House of Commons, whose members are elected and who elect the Prime Minister. The House of Lords is the other lot, sort of like a hereditary Senate, that *used* to be the important part of Parliament up until maybe the early 1800s, which lets the aristocracy still have some say in government as long as they don't actually interfere with the Commons too much.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
A simple solution will be for everbody in the UK to change their name by deed poll to Luther Blisset. Then whenever you sign up for something just pick any old address. We're all Luther Blisset !
The political class in the UIK really are a bunch of evil, selfish, greedy bastards.
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
They are always ways to be anonymous ;)
knock your heart out UK...your efforts will be met with futility
...where users smart enough to avoid posting under easily corroborated nicks are denigrated by less-savvy users as anonymous "cowards." Apparently, few people realize that anonymity has long been recognized by our legal system as an essential component of free speech. In fact, in one Eighteenth Century Supreme Court case, the Court held that free speech cannot exist without the availability of anonymous speech.
So draw your own conclusions about speech and privacy on the Internet. Or just do some in-depth research into the sci-fi capabilities of next-gen Web analytics.
I don't think the people of the United Kingdom understand as to what there getting into. Basically there rights being taken over on the internet anarchy anyone??
You know, I wish that, both in the UK and in my own country (the US, quelle surprise), that there was a nationally required, five year course beginning in 8th grade (or UK equivalent) each year consisting of watching, in oder, the 5 series of "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister", followed by intensive discussion of the issues, asides, ramifications, etc. Requiring a student to go up against Sir Humphrey Appleby would be singularly formative to critical thinking.....
If this becomes law, and especially if it applies even to "read-only" users, I'm just going to quit the internet (at least until it gets fixed). They can't make me use the damn thing. It was nice while it lasted.
I blame Facebook for getting people comfortable with the idea of handing over their identities to websites.
I also notice that (from the quotes I've read) the report appears to only concern itself with websites, as though the internet is websites and should be thought of as websites, conveniently manipulable by the government due to their centralised and generally commercially-operated nature.
I'll still be able to keep my screen name Anonymous Andy right?
Anonymity enables people to voice their opinion without being subjected to some sort of legal censorship for it. Very true and useful. However, if you believe that, just because the message was anonymous, a government who is against it won't bother to go after it, you are sorely mistaken.
Anonymity also allows people to harass each other online, to abuse polls, to troll people and to commit various crimes on the net like phishing and DDOS attacks, all without any form of consequence, which is completely unacceptable. What's even worse is that if one such criminal is to be caught, the amount of resources required to do so is very expensive.
So, instead of planning very expensive ways of eliminating anonymity, how about we just stop valuing the words of people who write anonymous trollposts?
This all just comes down to people being offended way too quickly and demanding some sort of compensation because their feelings got hurt.
and the same people who demand anonymous internet want the names and addresses of any one who contributes to an election campaign.
actually this sounded like a good idea until the irs started interfering.
Because anonymity is just a requirement of a democracy, why not throw it away? Vote-fixing (and intimidating the opposition) will be much easier then. Which must be what they want.