Nintendo Posts Yet Another Loss, Despite Mario Kart 8

Here's an idea! by EzInKy · 2014-07-31 16:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

Open up your platform so that anybody who wishes to can program for it, that way you aren't dependent on just a few titles.

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Re:Here's an idea! by EzInKy · 2014-07-31 16:17 · Score: 2

Companies hate the idea of openness, so I doubt that will happen.
Shame so many of them chose death over sharing, isn't it? Even if they still die, their platform could live on indefinitely. Think of what would have happened if it weren't for the x86 clones.

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Re:Here's an idea! by jmhobrien · 2014-07-31 16:22 · Score: 1

Exactly. Nintendo has a window of opportunity to open up its system and avoid total collapse. It will be a lot more painful to escape once that window is closed.

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Re:Here's an idea! by ZackSchil · 2014-07-31 17:41 · Score: 1

Heh, because so many AAA system sellers are deterred by the closed platform and DRM features. Slashdot readers are pretty out of touch I guess.
Opening the platform would keep it alive and pretty much just move low margin hardware without any software volume. If investors saw nintendo heading in that direction, they'd jump ship faster than they already are. If it even worked to keep the platform alive, it would be a pyrrhic victory at best.
Re:Here's an idea! by blackraven14250 · 2014-07-31 17:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

Shame so many of them chose death over sharing, isn't it?
The last time sharing was the norm, it caused the entire industry to collapse. There's a reason it was called the Nintendo Entertainment System, and not console. Nintendo, as it turns out, were the ones who led the industry's recovery, largely by instituting strict third party licensing. Sid Meier considers the Nintendo "Seal of Quality" one of the three most important innovations in gaming history because of the impact that it had.
Coming from that background, you can understand why Nintendo isn't going to take the decision to open up the platform as lightly as some open source keyboard warriors on Slashdot.
Re:Here's an idea! by Shadow+of+Eternity · 2014-07-31 18:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

You mean nintendo's price-fixing and marketing gimmick?

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Re:Here's an idea! by rworne · 2014-07-31 18:39 · Score: 1

That means little when looking at the state of more recent consoles like the Wii. The absolute crap shovelware released for that system is an embarrassment. Every console has stinker titles, but the Wii had a ton of them.

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Re:Here's an idea! by tibit · 2014-07-31 18:46 · Score: 2

Too little, too late. Their major problem is that, for whatever reason, there are no fucking games for it - and I don't mean indie games, I mean serious stuff. Just look at what comes out for PS3/PS4 - most definitely closed platforms. Then look at what comes out for Wii U. I made the mistake of buying one. Sure, I like the console, but after playing through every major title available for it (with exception of broken-by-ui-design AC3), there's simply nothing else left for me to do on it. And no, I don't consider junk like "NintendoLand" to be a major title. It's a game collection, with some good games, but once you master one or two of them, it all becomes rather tedious. Heck, I even got the Wii Fit U. What a total waste of perfectly good hardware. The mini games ("exercises") seem to be something students would do for a class project, and the setup is the most annoying thing ever. You can't simply just get on it and have fun, nosiree.

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Re:Here's an idea! by blackraven14250 · 2014-07-31 18:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's 1983. Atari just settled a lawsuit over Activision's ability to create games for the 2600, and did not get a restraining order against the practice. Shovelware is running rampant, and many of the companies creating the shovelware are small startups. Games are not selling because they were overall fucking terrible. Stores lose a ton of money on having merchandise they couldn't sell. Many of both the distributors and developers are going of business. The distributors that are diversified and survive, like Toys 'R Us, refuse to use inventory space on games. It's a business decision they're making based on what happens when games are completely shitty.
In comes Nintendo with a way to ensure that truly shitty games don't make it onto their console, and they rejuvenate an industry that almost killed itself entirely with too much openness.
Again, this isn't some hypothetical bullshit argument about whether open source is superior on moral grounds from someone who holds no real stake in the outcome. It's what actually happened in the industry.
Re:Here's an idea! by blackraven14250 · 2014-07-31 18:52 · Score: 1

The point is that coming from that background, of being one of the few survivors thanks to a licensing regime, they're going to think much harder than someone writing one sentence saying "the console should be opened up, that would solve all their problems!".
Given that they have billions in capital and a proven track record of turning around poor initial sales with killer apps, they're not going to immediately switch to an open platform when one generation seems to be faltering halfway through. If they fail for 2 generations consecutively, and don't turn them around mid cycle, then you might see a change.
Re:Here's an idea! by Therad · 2014-07-31 18:52 · Score: 1

The same is true for the ps2. And will probably be the same for ps4. The console that sells the most, attracts the most shovelware.
Re:Here's an idea! by blackraven14250 · 2014-07-31 18:54 · Score: 3, Informative

Lazy.
Re:Here's an idea! by DrXym · 2014-07-31 19:48 · Score: 1

Shame so many of them chose death over sharing, isn't it? Even if they still die, their platform could live on indefinitely. Think of what would have happened if it weren't for the x86 clones.
Because open & open source consoles have such a long and glorious history. And I include forcibly opened consoles in that list, those which have been cracked.
Opening the console up either voluntarily or involuntarily would be the final nail in the coffin for their platform.
Re:Here's an idea! by vux984 · 2014-07-31 19:57 · Score: 1

Oh yes... please do that. I want to log in and there be 500,000 "apps" to slum through. 100,000 phrasebooks for different languages. 200,000 photo retouching apps. Where my only hope of finding anything useful is to keep to the top 100 lists.
Yes, lets copy apple and google and replicate their problems.
There is definitely room for improvement on Nintendos store platform, OpenUp and do Apple or GooglePlay is just going full retard.
Re:Here's an idea! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 21:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

But it's not 1983 any more. Shelf space is not really an issue. An abundance of crappy games does no harm in the age of the internet since they can easily be ignored.
Back then gems would not find their way into stores because they got drowned in all the crappy games. Now with all the information at our fingertips this won't be an issue. Opening up a platform now will make it more successfull and it will result in tons of great games which can easily be recognized.
Re:Here's an idea! by hairyfeet · 2014-07-31 22:51 · Score: 1

Yeah which is why the PC died in the 80s, it being open killed any reason to develop for it...oh wait...hell if anything I'd say being open is what has caused the indie game explosion, with anybody with a really good idea (and a little help from kickstarter) coming out with completely new takes on traditional gaming.

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Re:Here's an idea! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 23:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Have you tried browsing in the iStore, Google Play, or to a lesser extent, Steam. If you just want to see what is there, you have to wade through pages of flappy bird clones, runners, and all the other crap just to see anything interesting. Don't count on ratings either, many of the good games get bogged down with "Overrated - 1 Star" and "Doesn't fold my laundry - 1 star" while the horrible shit games get enough 5 star reviews (usually by the developer and their friends) to at least look legitimate.
Re:Here's an idea! by Alioth · 2014-07-31 23:09 · Score: 2

As an antidote to that anecdote, in the UK during the same period the completely open Sinclair ZX Spectrum had one of its best game years, along with the completely open Commodore 64. Titles for both machines kept selling well right through the 1980s. Shops stocked games. It may have also been that a full price C64 or Spectrum game was half the price of a full price cartridge game.

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Re:Here's an idea! by evilviper · 2014-07-31 23:20 · Score: 2

The last time sharing was the norm, it caused the entire industry to collapse.
It was retailers falling for the stupid scams, that caused the collapse.

Nintendo, as it turns out, were the ones who led the industry's recovery, largely by instituting strict third party licensing. Sid Meier considers the Nintendo "Seal of Quality" one of the three most important innovations in gaming history because of the impact that it had.
Yes, and it was important at the time, when people had very little confidence in the quality of games, games were expensive, and there were no magazines doing reviews, services that allowed gamer rentals, etc., etc.
IMHO, whatever high standards Nintendo may have set in the 80s, were gone in one fell swoop, with the flood of crap games on the PSX.
And PC games never had a central authority, yet they did just fine.

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Re:Here's an idea! by evilviper · 2014-07-31 23:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

Games are not selling because they were overall fucking terrible. Stores lose a ton of money on having merchandise they couldn't sell.
No, stores bought a bunch of fucking terrible games that wouldn't sell, because it was common practice that unsold units could be returned to the manufacturer for refund, so they didn't expect any downside. A ton of sham game companies sprung up over-night, unloaded a ton of merchandise on toy stores, cashed the check, and then closed-up shop before anybody asked about returns.
The stores set themselves up for a failure, and the video game industry was only involved because it was the hot market at the time... kinda like smartphones today.

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Re:Here's an idea! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 23:47 · Score: 4, Interesting

Here's some details about modern and historical game markets that make the "Nintendo's monopolistic licensing saved the industry" story less like settled history and more like propaganda:
* European PS2 and worldwide Wii markets were absolutely flooded with shovelware and those systems did not suffer for it anywhere near the shovelware-laden Atari market did.
* Atari itself was abandoning quality control even faster than the third-party software distributors.
* The games market was not anywhere close to mature; as an offshoot of the fad-driven toy market, people left videogames because they assumed the fad was over.
* Personal computer platforms did not see the same kind of massive games crash that console platforms did, despite being explicitly designed for unlicensed third-party development *and* having even more crapware than Atari ever did.
* Nintendo's licensing program did not improve software quality. There were plenty of licensed Nintendo games which were absolute garbage. While Nintendo may have started the program specifically to avoid another Atari crash, they were sure happy to license everything LJN put out, despite said games being barely-functional licensed titles of at-best mediocre quality. The main purpose of the licensing program was to monopolize third-party software and skim a royalty fee off the top of everything.
Nintendo primarily won on the strength of their own first-party software, not because they had a stricter licensing program.
Re:Here's an idea! by hibiki_r · 2014-07-31 23:55 · Score: 1

There were many reasons, not just price: The Spectrum demographic was a bit older, the games were cheaper, and it was far, easier to figure out if you were buying something good like Knight Lore or the terrible Uchi Mata, because cheap. monthly magazines reviewed them: If you were old enough to buy the games, you were old enough to read the magazine first. Game magazines got tapes from the studios and publishers in time, so it's not as if you had things like the ET debacle. ET didn't hurt the industry because it was a bad game, but because enough kids actually got it.
Re:Here's an idea! by Anne+Thwacks · 2014-07-31 23:58 · Score: 1

Not all people are alike. We have a Wii and a WiiFit board. I play Tiger Woods Golf 2010 and WiiFit+ exercises pretty regularly.
The young kids play WiiFit SKi Jump and some Mario stuff at weekends, and rest of the family play Quantum of Solace at Christmas.
We bought a bunch of other stuff and its mostly not playable. Anyway Android games keep kids occupied, and everyone else watches Youtube.
WTF is with yet another Mario title?
Some needs tog et some originality. Where is "World Ndombolo Challenge"? that is what I want to know! I am still waiting!

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Re:Here's an idea! by aliquis · 2014-08-01 00:01 · Score: 1

Why shouldn't they code for PC instead?
Guess the Wii U have specialized hardware but rather release such hardware for the PC too then.
Re:Here's an idea! by aliquis · 2014-08-01 00:10 · Score: 1

Yeah.
PC gaming is dying.
They hate open platform and low prices.
Re:Here's an idea! by wbr1 · 2014-08-01 00:26 · Score: 1

This is all true, but the distribution model is different now. Online distribution, plus online communities and ranking systems make it sometimes easier to separate out the chaff.
You have to keep up!

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Re:Here's an idea! by MitchDev · 2014-08-01 00:26 · Score: 2

Seriously.
Nintendo is still missing some of it's big franchises on the Wii U (Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid, Smash Bros is months off still, etc) and checking the stores there's not a lot out there by comparison to the Wii or the Xbox360/1 and/or PS3/4
Re:Here's an idea! by NotDrWho · 2014-08-01 00:35 · Score: 1

Open up your platform so that anybody who wishes to can program for it, that way you aren't dependent on just a few titles.
This is Nintendo we're talking about here. They'll go bankrupt before they go open. Seppuku before dishonor.

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Re:Here's an idea! by citizenr · 2014-08-01 01:05 · Score: 1

Stores lose a ton of money on having merchandise they couldn't sell.
translation: stores keeping inventory of SHIT got hurt wah wah wah.
What is more logical:
-blame it on the 'big bad industry'
-actually get a clue and only sell preselected quality stuff
You dont see stores stuffing magazines full of pink furniture that is falling apart, but games, oh those are magical unknown beasts, nobody could tell if they are good or not, we need to stock all of them!

p>
In comes Nintendo with a way to ensure that truly shitty games don't make it onto their console
ever heard of LJN?

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Re:Here's an idea! by jgtg32a · 2014-08-01 02:04 · Score: 1

I seem to remember shovel ware being a huge problem for the Wii.
Re:Here's an idea! by hairyfeet · 2014-08-01 02:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

Riiight, because LJN didn't exist on the NES, there weren't games like Friday the 13th and Dark Tower on the NES. I think there is somebody you ought to meet, seeing as how he makes his living reviewing shitty NES games.
Oh and just FYI, from somebody that was actually working in retail during the crash? The "prevailing wisdom" is a big steaming pile of horseshit. gather around childrens and let this old greybeard tell ya what REALLY caused the crash!
Ya see little childrens the industry had back then what was called a "stock and swap" business model going and here is how it worked...you are a retailer, and the distributor wants you to sell games, but you don't know anything about games and are leery...what to do? "Simple" says Mr Distributor, "all you have to do is hand me any unsold games and I'll give you brand NEW games in return until they DO sell, you can't lose!"....Now I bet all you can see the big gaping flaw in this model, can't you kids? By taking out any risk it caused retailers to overstock to the extreme because it was like money in the bank, right? Every one that doesn't sell will be replaced for a new title until it sells and with each sale I make a nice profit so I should have a TON of games so I can have a TON of profits...yay!
And THIS boys and girls NOT the Atarti case, is what caused the crash. Even at the little Magic Mart I was working part time at in the middle of a town with only 10k people at the time there was 7 different game systems and over 1000 titles because it was like money in the bank, right? Well the distributors started to take any game for any system made by any company just to get new products they could flip, the markets became completely saturated with systems and games and all it took was a couple of the middlemen to go under for the whole thing to collapse. the retailers panicked when they couldn't just turn in old carts and systems for new, started dumping product in the channel trying to get out, and the whole thing went to shit.
So there it is boys and girls, the same thing that caused so many other crashes, gambling in the market caused by shady systems and promises of easy money without risk. By the middle of 84 I was walking out of Magic Mart with over a thousand bucks worth of games and systems for my $50 check and needless to say I wasn't buying any full price games when I was getting 4 Coleco games for a buck or 10 Atari which just made the few companies left cash starved as their new product had to compete with 10c games.....is it any wonder so many went tits up?

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Re:Here's an idea! by phorm · 2014-08-01 02:46 · Score: 1

Alternately, move towards being a game provider rather than a console+game. Generally, people are buying Nintendo stuff because the games are fun, not because the hardware is spectacular. For innovative stuff like wiimote etc, perhaps they could also manufacturer hardware accessories, but much of the Wii U controller functionality could have been replaced by a mobile App.
How much could they make selling copies of Mario [Party/Kart/Bros], Metroid, Zelda, etc on multiple platforms. Games from other vendors that used to be Nintendo exclusives such as Final Fantasy, Castlevania etc seem to manage to do well across consoles.
Re:Here's an idea! by GuB-42 · 2014-08-01 03:31 · Score: 1

Openness was never the business model of Nintendo. In fact not being open was a key to Nintendo success since the Famicom.
Nintendo is all about good quality exclusive games.
By going open they will compete with the much more versatile Android and iOS devices and the much more powerful PCs and to a lesser extant Xbone and PS4. They simply can't win in the open market.
Re:Here's an idea! by Dogtanian · 2014-08-01 08:28 · Score: 1

Shame so many of them chose death over sharing, isn't it? Even if they still die, their platform could live on indefinitely.
Assuming a company's only aim is to make money, then whatever happens to their products after they die is essentially irrelevant in that respect. (*)

Of course, I'm sure that there are those working within a company (more likely to be in engineering and development) that feel otherwise. But ultimately this will be overridden by those in sales, marketing et al, unless it offers a clear benefit to the company.

Yes, some companies will offer well-backed guarantees or promises about what happens with respect to various things should they go under (e.g. release of source code). But even that is ultimately a means to attract more paying customers- by providing a level of certainty that is valuable to them- while the company is still in existence.

(*) Unless, of course, those in power have a conflict of interest and something to gain from the company's demise.

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Re:Here's an idea! by Dogtanian · 2014-08-01 08:46 · Score: 2

Don't compare the ZX Specturm with 16KB to the C64.
Why not? For the purposes of the argument being made with respect to the UK market, they were both in the same boat.

Besides which, there were two versions of the Spectrum when originally released; the aforementioned 16K model, and an otherwise identical 48K model. The 16K spec was rendered increasingly irrelevant as time went on and the 48K version became the de facto "base model" required for Spectrum games.

Still wasn't as good a machine overall as the C64 (BASIC and faster CPU aside), but that's neither here nor there.

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Re:Here's an idea! by CronoCloud · 2014-08-01 08:46 · Score: 1

Yes, but the UK market had protectionist features to protect Uncle Clive from the likes of Atari and Nintendo, and later on Sony.
Not to mention that a lot of spectrum games are low budget platformers on Â£1.99 tapes that were then copied on dual tape decks. These games aren't the quality level of NES games, or C64 games either.
In the US, C64 games weren't half the price of NES games, because the best C64 games in the US were games on floppy that retailed for the same price as cartridge games.
Re:Here's an idea! by tepples · 2014-08-01 11:26 · Score: 1

Heh, because so many AAA system sellers are deterred by the closed platform and DRM features.
Are you trying to claim that no game studios are allowed to exist unless they're big enough to deliver "AAA system sellers"? How are new game studios supposed to take hold in the first place?
Re:Here's an idea! by evilviper · 2014-08-01 11:27 · Score: 1

Retailers today are not any smarter than they were then.
Smarter or not, they won't fall for the same scam again.

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Re:Here's an idea! by cheesybagel · 2014-08-01 11:27 · Score: 1

It is a lot more complicated than that. The major cause for the so called video game crash of the 80s was the entry into the market of personal computers which had better graphics and sound than the consoles. Sometimes they were even cheaper than the consoles. Plus you could easily copy the games which often came on an audio tape. This was when the Apple II, C64, ZX Spectrum controlled the gaming market. Plus it was a lot easier to convince parents to buy one since you could claim it could be used for something other than gaming.
The Nintendo "Seal of Quality" has nothing to do with it. Plus Sid Meier is full of bullshit because he came to have success back when he was at Microprose thanks to the IBM PC market which was rampant with software piracy. Fact is most of the game companies which left the PC market entirely to focus on the so called more profitable console market have nearly all crashed and burned.
Re:Here's an idea! by DiEx-15 · 2014-08-02 13:19 · Score: 1

It's 1983. Atari just settled a lawsuit over Activision's ability to create games for the 2600, and did not get a restraining order against the practice. Shovelware is running rampant, and many of the companies creating the shovelware are small startups. Games are not selling because they were overall fucking terrible. Stores lose a ton of money on having merchandise they couldn't sell. Many of both the distributors and developers are going of business. The distributors that are diversified and survive, like Toys 'R Us, refuse to use inventory space on games. It's a business decision they're making based on what happens when games are completely shitty.
In comes Nintendo with a way to ensure that truly shitty games don't make it onto their console, and they rejuvenate an industry that almost killed itself entirely with too much openness.
Again, this isn't some hypothetical bullshit argument about whether open source is superior on moral grounds from someone who holds no real stake in the outcome. It's what actually happened in the industry.
That seal didn't completely stop shitty games from hitting the NES/SNES but it did curtail a lot of "jackals" from doing damage.

Nintendo bleeds by BenJeremy · 2014-07-31 16:08 · Score: 1

I know they have some large cash reserves, but how long can you bleed $100 million every 4 months?

The Gameboy/DS line is the only thing keeping them afloat, but even that looks to be winding down, bowing to smart phones and tablets.

Re:Nintendo bleeds by Moheeheeko · 2014-07-31 16:23 · Score: 1, Flamebait

about as long as Sony can bleed 5-6 billion a year. And they did that for most of the PS3s lifespan.
Re:Nintendo bleeds by gl4ss · 2014-07-31 16:24 · Score: 1

they can do it for at least two years afaik..
but the question is this: do the shareholders want to bleed or cash?

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Re:Nintendo bleeds by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 16:36 · Score: 1

they can do it for at least two years afaik..
but the question is this: do the shareholders want to bleed or cash?
As a shareholder (not a lot, but enough to be concerned), I am happy with the direction shown at the previous E3. I had many concerns, but products don't make themselves instantly. They are putting their reputation on the 2015 line-up, and it looks good.
I just wish they had a Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate for the Wii U.
When comparing consoles, aside from the amount sold, is there a place to track the amount played or used? How many hours per week total across each console and how many hours on average per console in use? I'm interested in if the consoles are being treated as bricks or if they are actually being used. The Wii U has the best library of this generation right now, and looks like that will continue up through next year. I am certainly interested in games like No Man's Sky, which looks like a AAA Starbound. Because it is a AAA version of an indie game, I doubt it will have the same level of satisfaction even with a more structured development cycle.
Re:Nintendo bleeds by stms · 2014-07-31 17:11 · Score: 1

I read somewhere that Nintendo had 15 billion dollars of cash reserves. So assuming that's true they can do this for 50 years.
It's kind of a shame actually. I love Nintendo's philosophy in game design. If Nintendo had a platform that was helpful to third-party developers I might want a Nintendo system. If Nintendo Developed for systems other than their own I would likely buy more of than half the games they release. But I have no interest in buying a Wii or Wii U.
I'm not worried about Nintendo. Plenty of idiots will eventually buy a Wii U for the latest Zelda or Whatever ends up being the first big killer app for their system.
Re:Nintendo bleeds by tibit · 2014-07-31 18:49 · Score: 1

Wii U the best library? What on Earth are you talking about. The Nintendo store looks downright depressing compared to what you get for other major consoles.

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Re: Nintendo bleeds by O('_')O_Bush · 2014-08-01 00:14 · Score: 2

Call of Duty and Halo don't make an impressive library. What the other two consoles have is diehard brand loyalty(fanboism), which cause cause sales of their consoles despite having an unimpressive game library.

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Re: Nintendo bleeds by tibit · 2014-08-01 02:24 · Score: 1

CoD and Halo? Whaaat? Have you seen this?

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App stores compete with the 3DS by Vyse+of+Arcadia · 2014-07-31 16:11 · Score: 1

Nintendo must also contend with mobile games available on Apple and Google's app stores, which cost but a fraction of a Nintendo game.

Very few console gamers are buying cell phone games in favor of console games. Where Nintendo is competing with app stores is with its 3DS handheld, not really with the Wii U. I'm sure that's still contributing to the big N posting losses, but the summary makes it sound like Mario Kart 8 is losing out to Crappy Mobile Minecraft Clone no. 873.

Re:App stores compete with the 3DS by DrXym · 2014-07-31 19:58 · Score: 1

The Wii U is the filling in a shit sandwich. On one side it has the PS3 & 360 which are technically comparable yet cheaper and have a massive catalogue of games and industry support. On the other side they have the PS4 and XB1 which are technically superior, rapidly picking up steam and have industry support. They're in the middle with no industry support and few if any reasons to justify themselves to consumers over other choices.
The problem is fundamentally one of Nintendo's own making. They cynically set out to make the lowest spec console they could get away (basically parity with the PS3/360) and charged a premium for a gimmick. Consumers didn't buy it (probably remembering the Wii, remote, balance board + assorted shit gathering dust in the cupboard) and without the sales the 3rd parties slipped away.
A single title like MarioKart is a shot in the arm but it can't turn the ship around by itself. Nintendo will have to hope they can keep throwing out good titles for long enough that sales pick up and some 3rd parties come back. Personally I think they should be looking to emerging markets and price their console at those markets.
Re:App stores compete with the 3DS by captjc · 2014-08-01 05:07 · Score: 2

A single title like MarioKart is a shot in the arm but it can't turn the ship around by itself. Nintendo will have to hope they can keep throwing out good titles for long enough that sales pick up and some 3rd parties come back.
Worked for Sony. Remember for the first 4 years of the PS3's life, it was a joke. Horribly expensive, almost no games worth playing, and it took developers years to finally figure out how to make game on par with the 360, much less better. Then there were the cries that Blu-Ray was just a gimmick and that they should have gotten rid of it. After a few price cuts and once Sony stepped up their game with first party and indie titles did the PS3 finally gain steam. And this was against a console with paid subscription multiplayer, a start screen full of ads and the worst quality control blunder in the history of consoles!

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I want to believe! by Narcocide · 2014-07-31 16:11 · Score: 1

Next week: Nintendo miraculously saved from impending doom by the the slashdot effect.

so you want color dreams level games on wii? by Joe_Dragon · 2014-07-31 16:13 · Score: 1

so you want color dreams level games on wii?

Re:so you want color dreams level games on wii? by EzInKy · 2014-07-31 16:18 · Score: 2

If that sells more Wiis, and more Wii games, why not?

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They lost their market by sandytaru · 2014-07-31 16:21 · Score: 2

As the summary says, their market, the casual gamer, can get their fix on their cell phones. Candy Crush did more damage to Wii U sales than the PS4 or Xbone could do.

Most people I know are still holding out until the next Zelda game, which might finally be the killer app Nintendo so desperately needs.

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Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.

Re:They lost their market by Fallen+Kell · 2014-07-31 16:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

They have been holding out for at least 3-4 games that people want to play. Right now, there are maybe 2 games that people want. That isn't enough to warrant a console purchase. When there is a Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, and maybe a couple others out, people might finally pickup a Wii U. Otherwise, it just doesn't have anything worth getting that you can't get a better version/experience of on the other consoles.

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We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Re:They lost their market by Nyder · 2014-07-31 19:06 · Score: 1

They have been holding out for at least 3-4 games that people want to play. Right now, there are maybe 2 games that people want. That isn't enough to warrant a console purchase. When there is a Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, and maybe a couple others out, people might finally pickup a Wii U. Otherwise, it just doesn't have anything worth getting that you can't get a better version/experience of on the other consoles.
When they finally hack the WiiU to do homebrew, you'll see an increase of console sales.
I know I'll purchase one then. Or they could drop the price by $50 and probably get a bunch more sales. Though I'm sure this will happen during the Xmas holiday.

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Be seeing you...
Re:They lost their market by TitusC3v5 · 2014-07-31 22:57 · Score: 1

It's really sad to see people holding out for the same titles that defined the last two generations. There are already great original titles for the Wii U - ZombiU and Wonderful101 immediately come to mind. Plus, for me personally, the backwards compatibility is a godsend for those of us who skipped the original Wii.

A small library of original but great titles. Established franchise entries like DK Tropical Freeze, NSMBU, and Mario Kart 8. A fantastic lineup coming down the pipe. Virtual console to scratch that retro itch. Backwards compatibility to hundreds of Wii titles. If the above isn't enough reason to grab a Wii U, one game isn't going to make a difference. Smash Bros isn't *that* good of a game to sell a system by itself.

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And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
Re:They lost their market by MitchDev · 2014-08-01 00:50 · Score: 1

Meijer having a sale was what finally got us a WiiU. Buy the deluxe set with Mario/Luigi World included and get another game free. Getting a $60 game free made that sale.
Re:They lost their market by CronoCloud · 2014-08-01 08:05 · Score: 1

When they finally hack the WiiU to do homebrew, you'll see an increase of console sales.
No they won't. Very few people have an interest in homebrew. A few cheap guys who want homebrew for Emulators are a miniscule niche. The ones that actually DO want to do coding are an even smaller niche.
Re:They lost their market by Xest · 2014-08-04 02:49 · Score: 1

Meh, disagree. It was worth it for Mario 3D World, Lego City Undercover, Pikmin 3, and Mario Kart 8 alone. Those four games are far more varied and interesting than anything that's come out for my X1 to date.
Honestly, the X1 line up isn't even great up until Christmas. Dead Rising 3 was about the only great game so far that is unique to the platform and I don't see anything better on the PS4.
Glad I bought mine even with the dearth of games, because as few games as there are they're all 95%+ score deserving games rather than the ~70% mediocre tosh you get on other platforms and that's coming from someone whose very much the opposite of the casual gamer market - I love FPS games but BF with it's bugs and CoD were both complete and utter shit this time around.

just make a Mario phone. by Cryacin · 2014-07-31 16:21 · Score: 1

He's a plumber, of course it's going to be water proof!

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Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck

Re:just make a Mario phone. by Narcocide · 2014-07-31 16:27 · Score: 1

this is honestly a great idea. i would also buy a nintendo smart watch in a heartbeat, over anything made by samsung or apple...

Good. Fuck Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 16:53 · Score: 1, Informative

I bought a Wii U because I moved overseas and wanted a console. The entire concept of their "Virtual Console" is the biggest scam in the world. When they choose to bleed the few customers who still buy their products, the train's come off the rails and it's time to abandon all hope for the country. Bought some games on Wii Virtual Console? Oh I'm sorry that 25 year old copy of Mario has to be repurchased OR you can choose to pay $1.99. Didn't keep your Wii/Lost your SD Card? Even though we have record of your sale, there's nothing we can do. Oh you bought a $40 accessory for the Wii U, but you want to play a Wii Virtual Console game (because we haven't "ported" it?)? Too bad. Completely anti-consumer with the classic titles.

They should stop making consoles by Undead+Waffle · 2014-07-31 17:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

With the Wii they realized they couldn't keep up with the PS and Xbox. Instead of trying to get people to buy their consoles for their games they should switch to just making games. Even if they required custom controllers for some of their games I doubt it would be hard to come out ahead.

Re:They should stop making consoles by TitusC3v5 · 2014-07-31 18:14 · Score: 2

There's no reason to try to keep up with the PS and Xbox. They're underpowered PCs. Nintendo at the very least is trying to enable experiences that can't be had on other mediums.

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And the masses cried out, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0!"
Re:They should stop making consoles by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 18:35 · Score: 1

With the Wii they realized they couldn't keep up with the PS and Xbox.
With the Wii, they realized that the core to getting people to buy their games was making games more people wanted to buy. Unfortunately, that larger market is heavily saturated by people who see no reason to buy WiiU Sports Resort U or whatever just to get the higher resolution support they clearly didn't care enough about when getting their Wii. In any case, the notion of "keep up with" is almost always a losing competition when dealing with conglomerates that can leverage other departments to ramp up performance and vertically integrate down production costs. Besides, it's not graphical fidelity that makes games fun per se--smooth art has more to do with artistic care than CPU/GPU horsepower--and it's precisely that graphical fidelity that's causing the massive cost issues for development houses--HD costs a lot more to draw because it takes a lot longer to draw--(from the Cryamore Development Blog on shrinking sprite size by 30% (which still leaves it as "HD" in most respects): "The time estimated to do a single frame is now cut down from a little over an hour per frame to about a little over 30 minutes per frame for Esmy or a basic NPC."

Instead of trying to get people to buy their consoles for their games they should switch to just making games.
Except the whole point of owning their own consoles is to (1) avoid having to pay the developer fee per copy of every game they sell and (2) collecting the developer fee for every copy everyone else on their console sells. Really, why would they want to give up that edge? Of course the fact that Nintendo makes great games, generally, means that (2) appears to give Nintendo some sort of magic advantage--ie, I'd say that it's more a psychological effect and is just the general aspect of competing against Nintendo and if they followed your suggestion the same developers would have the same issues on the PS4 or Xbone or whatever.

Even if they required custom controllers for some of their games I doubt it would be hard to come out ahead.
Actually, this is the one thing that really keeps killing Nintendo. I think Nintendo has a belief that (1) various gadget controllers will open up new ways to play and their relative low cost will mean a high profit margin for each new doodad and (2) if the controller ends up being a whole expensive separate console (basically or literally) it'll create some sort of magic synergy that'll double sales (this is at least as old as the Gamecube/GBA linking). Yet the truth is that, as you sort of imply, they're not really making much if anything on the (2) option (in large part because people are already buying the stupid things and hence there's no real "double" anywhere) which even if they're technically ahead still leaves them well below budget projections.
Really, I have to say the fundamental issue with the WiiU is precisely that it was trying too hard to fight the tablet market and the PS/XBox market head on while ignoring that most users were content with the Wii. Some sort of CPU/RAM expansion would have been enough to placate most developers and would have forgone all the needless price battling that has resulted from trying to cram so much physical hardware into their new system. But Nintendo wanted to experiment and recreate the Wii's success ignoring that the whole motion control thing as a success was mostly a fluke (once the novelty wore off, MotionPlus had to come along and really plaster over how wonky/lame the initial hardware was) and that Nintendo clearly doesn't "get" trying to cram multiple consoles together--and honestly, I don't know of a system that ever succeed based upon the need for an expensive peripheral.
If tomorrow Nintendo announced a Wii U Lite and made the tablet mostly optional--through possible an on-screen emulation of enough of its functionality for some games--and cut the price by $50
Re:They should stop making consoles by thegarbz · 2014-07-31 19:52 · Score: 1

With the Wii they realized they couldn't keep up with the PS and Xbox.
No, with the Wii they realized they didn't need to keep up with the PS and Xbox. They created a new type of gaming market and made billions because of it. They are arguably competing against the mobile phone, not the Xbox or Playstation.
Re:They should stop making consoles by Undead+Waffle · 2014-07-31 21:17 · Score: 1

With the Wii they realized they couldn't keep up with the PS and Xbox.
No, with the Wii they realized they didn't need to keep up with the PS and Xbox. They created a new type of gaming market and made billions because of it. They are arguably competing against the mobile phone, not the Xbox or Playstation.
They didn't need to at the time, no. They had the motion sensor which was a novel new idea and got a lot of people who had no interest in consoles to buy a Wii. But that wore off fast and those people lost interest years ago. They went for that market because Microsoft and Sony were spending a ton of money making more powerful consoles and selling them at a loss and Nintendo knew they couldn't stay in that game. The console gamers, the ones who buy consoles every generation, are clearly less interested in Nintendo's offerings than the PS or Xbox. And everyone else has no reason to buy a console when their phone/tablet/computer works well enough. If they made a phone or tablet OS the majority of the market wouldn't care and as we're seeing here they aren't having success competing with the other console makers. Sony and Microsoft don't need to make money from their gaming divisions because they have other products that make money. Nintendo doesn't have this luxury so they are at a disadvantage. Thus, they should really consider trying to reach a wider audience by focusing on just the games than trying to control the entire stack. If they have another breakthrough idea it might be smarter to integrate it with Steam Box or something and make a deal with Valve. Then they can capture the PC market as well. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll come up with an amazing console for their next generation, but I think it's much more likely that they will change strategy.
Re:They should stop making consoles by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 21:19 · Score: 1

No, with the Wii they realized they didn't need to keep up with the PS and Xbox.
In that generation. The same idea isn't working out for the Wii U in this generation. The PS4 launched one year later than the Wii U and has already sold more. The Xbox One will also overtake the Wii U soon enough.
Re:They should stop making consoles by evilviper · 2014-07-31 23:11 · Score: 4, Interesting

With the Wii they realized they couldn't keep up with the PS and Xbox.
They don't try (at all) to keep up on raw benchmark-type specs. That helps them sell their consoles at a profit instead of a loss. And yet the Wii really caught on, and looked like it was going to take over the world. The pundits were talking non-stop about how genius Nintendo was... until the Kinect and Move were rushed to market in response, and took the wind out of Nintendo's sales.

Instead of trying to get people to buy their consoles for their games they should switch to just making games.
Because that has worked out so incredibly well for Sega over the past decade???
You might as well say that all 3 should pack it in, and just make games for PCs and smartphones/tablets.

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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:They should stop making consoles by Rhacman · 2014-08-01 04:16 · Score: 1

+1, but only for the last sentence.

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Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
Re:They should stop making consoles by Your.Master · 2014-08-01 05:28 · Score: 1

The reason they'd want to give up that edge is that right now, they're losing money on that edge.
I'm not advocating any particular solution, but collecting licensing fees rather than paying them isn't a certain profit.

in no way is switching to a game-only company and becoming beholden to PS/Xbox any sort of a solution.
The only argument I see contradicting that is the licensing fee edge, and lots of companies make money despite a licensing fee while Nintendo is losing money even with licensing revenue. Clearly the licensing fee cannot be the single issue blocking such a transition.
I actually like the Wii U (didn't own a Wii, picked it up because it had back-compat and the possibility of its own good exclusives with an actual standard controller), but I kind of anticipated its flopping.
Re:They should stop making consoles by CronoCloud · 2014-08-01 07:47 · Score: 1

That helps them sell their consoles at a profit instead of a loss.
Sony is already selling the PS4 as a hardware unit at a profit.

until the Kinect and Move were rushed to market in response, and took the wind out of Nintendo's sales.
Move? Rushed to market? Sony has been working with motion control longer than Nintendo has.
From Siggraph 2001:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Eyetoy Demo from 2003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Re:They should stop making consoles by thegarbz · 2014-08-01 11:22 · Score: 1

I don't think you understand because you're still comparing hardware specs, hardware novelties, and comparing the Wii to the XBox / PS. They are not the same market. Think back a generation. People typically had a Xbox and Wii, or a PS and a Wii. Rarely you'd find someone with an XBox and a PS.
The 2 big consoles targeted serious gamers with triple A titles.
The Wii and Wii U targeted casual gamers, people who played short silly puzzle games, housewives who wanted to do yoga on a balance board, drunk kids who wanted to play some seriously stupid games at a party. Sidenote: We never pulled out the Xbox at a party, but typically every party devolved into Mariokart, Smash bros, or Mario Land, because who doesn't like giving drunk friends shit while they wank off their wii mote making a cocktail.
Part of what you said is right, people are not interested. But it's not console gamers that are being targeted. People not being interested has nothing to do with the XBox or PS who's high sales figures are not indicative of the platform but rather a need to be able to play new games (kind of like upgrading video cards). On the other hand the Wii U game catalogue has serious competition from the phone. That's it. No one compares Nintendoland to Titanfall, they compare it to Candy Crush, Flappybird and 2048, all of which provide the same hours of entertainment at no direct cost.
Your idea of integrating with Steam is interesting. Certainly not impossible, as they have shown they are quite capable of changing target markets. However even when Nintendo changed to target casual gamers they did not let go of their iron grip around the franchise. Developing for Xbox / PS involves a small fee. Developing for Nintendo involves a licencing ritual that would make an Apple Appstore approver blush. My guess is they are too.... arrogant? (not the word I'm after) to parter with the likes of Steam.
Also you should look into the economics of the console industry. Nintendo and Sony are no different in that regard. Neither company makes a loss in their console division as losses from equipment get recovered in sales of games. It was only the first gen Xbox which truly made a colossal loss propped up by Microsoft's other divisions.

The market is getting tighter and tighter by GoodNewsJimDotCom · 2014-07-31 17:41 · Score: 1

Between old games still being there for us to play, new free to play web games, playerbases condensing into specific multiplayer games, and the extra power XBOX and PS4 go, Nintendo can only offer us sequels to popular games they had. Cell phones and Tablets are huge competitors to Nintendo too. I think Nintendo could pull out a win by stop gimmicking it up with their controller. Better yet, they could make the defacto standard controller designed for cell phone/Tablets and continue to make software.

I know a lot of people had fun on the N64,gamecube,wii, and WiiU, but the last game system I took serious that Nintendo made was the Snes. It was the last game system which controller wasn't a gimmick, and before PC games became generally better in terms of content. Now don't get me wrong, there were a couple games there after SNES that I know are popular, but I didn't get into. I always thought the idea of console gaming was focused on the controller to be action reflex oriented, and hidden buttons underneath the controller, or motion sensors just distract. The best games link your brain with pure cerebral responses to what happens in the game. If your controller requires 200 extra milliseconds just to engage the button, or you can't hit all the buttons with any hand configuration, you screwed up as a game controller designer. The games should be the toys, not the gimmick controllers.

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God spoke to me

Re:The market is getting tighter and tighter by mandginguero · 2014-07-31 17:57 · Score: 4, Interesting

The leap from SNES to N64 controller definitely took some brain rewiring, but the move to analog thumb controlled joysticks is a move that the other game developer consoles made as well. It freed up additional fingers for more buttons. I get what you're saying with regard to the inability to access every button without changing up hand configurations, a problem Xbox and Playstation never had with their models. Newly positioned buttons and motion sensors don't have to be distractions once you've reprogrammed your premotor cortex and cerebellum to deal with them. I think there is an aspect of timing that was integral for many older system games that may be less important for some games now. When you look at the feature space of games in the 8 bit era, there were very limited interactions you could have. You were relegated to 2 dimensional environments and games like side scrolling action were quite common and relied on incredibly precise timing to pull off. How many people made it past the damn rocket sleds on Battletoads consistently? But newer games with immersive 3D sandboxes to explore don't have to rely on tight timing to hook a gamer. These tight timing aspects are probably what attracted many gamers to action games, and continue to make first person shooters so appealing.
As a researcher in brain computer interfaces (BCI), I have to disagree with the more literal interpretation of your statement that the best games link your brain with pure cerebral responses to gameplay. I think you're getting at very quick sensorimotor contingencies, where you get 'in the zone' but there is a huge amount of somatosensory/tactile feedback that goes into these sorts of interactions that are currently missing with direct brainwave interfaces. Let alone the fact that even the best BCI algorithms can classify a handful at most different responses, you have access to more combinations of discrete input with your fingers for now than reading brainwaves.

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i don't know karate, but i know ca-razy
Re:The market is getting tighter and tighter by GoodNewsJimDotCom · 2014-07-31 21:50 · Score: 1

1: I'm not complaining about the analog inputs on the N64, but more the "lets stick a trigger under neath the whole thing". Look at Wii games like Donkey Kong Country or New Super Mario Bros, and you'll be holding the joystick one way playing the game fine, but then have to shake the controller for another input which could simply have been another button. It disjoints your game play like having to switch from 2 handed keyboard to mouse and back on some web games.

2:I think calling when we're talking of quality reflex games that are fun to play, Battletoads doesn't really make my list for a game to be remembered. There are actually a lot of quality relfex games for the NES era such as The Legend of Zelda 1&2, SuperMario Bros, Contra, etc etc. Calling reflex games bad by nature by picking out one that isn't an example of a good one is disingenuous.

3:I think you simply misunderstood me: Cerebral has another definition than "Brain to computer interface", it means it feels good to your brain. Tasks that map well to the brain with low frustration are cerebral. I'm sure you've heard this before as a brain researcher. When I say link your brain, I'm talking NES/SNES or PS3/XBOX360 controllers, but some game developers should take the pressure off to map every last button to a unique action. Sometimes having less buttons and actions to select from puts the user in more of a comfortable box to play from with limited choices. Not every game would benefit from limited number of actions, but some would.

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God spoke to me
Re:The market is getting tighter and tighter by evilviper · 2014-07-31 23:34 · Score: 2

As a researcher in brain computer interfaces (BCI), I have to disagree with the more literal interpretation of your statement that the best games link your brain with pure cerebral responses to gameplay.
Slashdot... it's a lot like Central Park... except PhDs may stop by at any time to painstakingly pick-apart the logical and factual errors in the rant of the crazy homeless guy that's yelling at the pigeons.

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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Re:The market is getting tighter and tighter by Anne+Thwacks · 2014-08-01 00:06 · Score: 2

except PhDs may stop by at any time to painstakingly pick-apart the logical and factual errors in the rant of the crazy homeless guy that's yelling at the pigeons.
But what makes it worth while is that the pigeons often win the argument!

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Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII

Continued (dodging Slashdot filter) by GoodNewsJimDotCom · 2014-07-31 17:42 · Score: 2

Again, I'll say it that I think Nintendo would have a lot of success in Android/iOS/PC markets just making games and controllers. I mean what they could do easily is have their old games available on Android/iOS/PC through some sort of official emulator instead of the underground doing it. Then they could use Steam and people could buy old Nintendo games for whatever discounted price they wanted to sell them for. People living today can't get all those old games easily unless they go the illegal rom route, and not everyone feels it is right to use ROMs they didn't pay for. Sure some don't care, and I have nothing against piracy, but some do. I bet there would be a bunch of money in either: A: releasing those old games on other platforms, or B: Lowering the price drastically on the WiiU on those old games so they're not 30$, but maybe 1$. If people knew they could buy a WiiU and a ton of old games on the cheap, they would be buying the WiiU.

So yes, if I was CEO of Nintendo, I'd have as many old games to buy on WiiU for as cheap as possible: like 30-90 cents. If your WiiU system had such legacy dominance that people could know they had all the old games, more people would be buying WiiU. I bet they'd fly off the shelves. Then once having paid the overhead of having the system, they'd buy more premium games. It is time to stop pretending pirates aren't out there, and competing with them for your legacy software. Every sale of legacy software is one more than you'd have otherwise. Not every 12 year old has been around for the past 30 years or has parents who have been video gamers. You start giving kids the ability to play video game history on the cheap, and your system will be loved.

In fact I'd make it a selling point of every Nintendo system from here on out to provide an online network to buy legacy titles at the appropriate price point. There's a point where you don't want to sell the last generations titles which are still around for too cheap, but the general concept to allow legacy titles to be purchased on future Nintendo systems, and this could be a way Nintendo not only dodges today's storm, but sures up an unsinkable ship moving forward. It would be almost similar to a homebrew Steam store... Nintendo could even swing license deals with people who made old games to get them on there.

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God spoke to me

Re:Continued (dodging Slashdot filter) by meta-monkey · 2014-08-01 01:57 · Score: 2

As game designers, Nintendo is absolutely willing to be creative and take risks. As a business, they are absolutely not. I did some consulting work for them last summer as they were trying to roll out a new ERP system and data warehouse. Their corporate culture was...unfortunate. Everything was very top-down controlled with every little thing you wanted to do, tiny change you wanted to make, had to be presented with Word documents and screenshots and impact cases and blah blah blah that had to go through four levels of higher-up approval. And they claimed to be doing Agile development! This was their third attempt to get this system off the ground and it failed, too. It could have succeeded, it was almost ready, but Japan corporate refused because it wasn't already perfect. Of course it's impossible to be perfect when the requirements are constantly changing.
Like I said, third attempt, with their third set of contractors. It's kind of like going on a date with a girl and she keeps talking about how shitty her last boyfriend was, and the failed relationship before that and before that and at some point you have to say, "You know what all these relationship horror stories have in common? You." That was the impression I got of Nintendo's corporate culture (from my tiny cube at the bottom of the pile as a coder, subcontracted by the subcontractor of one of the subcontractors subcontracted by the contractor).
Point is, I don't see them making any grand sweeping changes to their business strategy. Game design? Console design? Yes. Business strategy? Nooooo ho ho ho.

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We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.

It is too bad Apple doesn't do join ventures. by TheGeneration · 2014-07-31 17:54 · Score: 1

I feel like Nintendo and Apple would make a really great team with similar attention to detail and customer experience.

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The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.

Re:It is too bad Apple doesn't do join ventures. by JDeane · 2014-07-31 18:52 · Score: 1

Would be interesting with Apple handling the OS and user experience plus media stuff like iTunes. Nintendo handling the games end of things.
I don't think it will ever happen, but then again I never expected to see Sonic games on a Nintendo platform either.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2014-07-31 18:13 · Score: 2

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Comment removed by account_deleted · 2014-07-31 18:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

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Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 18:25 · Score: 5, Informative

I'd just like to point out the WiiU changed significantly after the launch. The procedure nowadays is:

1. Grab Tablet.
2. Press home, click game from menu (in *under one second* if it's one of your eight most recent picks or the disc in the drive - Even many smartphones are slower than that).
3. Modest load time (shorter than what it was at launch, comparing Nintendoland then versus Nintendoland now), and play.

Pointedly, Nintendo's quick-in element is something that the PS4 and XBox One cannot emulate (since it relies to no small part on the screen on the controller, which can turn on faster than most modern TVs).

That said, it's not like the PS4's short on good stuff either. Overpriced demo though it may be, Metal Gear Solid 5: Ground Zeroes is quite lovely.

Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by rsmith-mac · 2014-07-31 18:42 · Score: 1

Confirming the above.

Also, I'm not sure what exact problem the GP ran into with their Pro Controller, but at least in 2014 the Wii U can be started and controlled completely from the Pro Controller; no gamepad is required for the menu system. (Though games can still require it)

Here's another idea by popo · 2014-07-31 18:46 · Score: 1

The reality is that you can build a decent set top box for casual gaming for under $50.

Do that AND open it up to developers with an App Store and Nintendo will create a whole new category.

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------ The best brain training is now totally free : )

Re:Here's another idea by MitchDev · 2014-08-01 00:29 · Score: 2

I dunno, my 5 year old daughter often uses the game pad on the Wii U and she gets more active jumping around than she gets on the playground sometimes....
Re:Here's another idea by NotDrWho · 2014-08-01 00:40 · Score: 1

And FireTV too. And if Amazon can't get it to sell, with all the extra stuff the FireTV can do, I doubt Nintendo can.
It also probably doesn't help that Nintendo has acquired a reputation in the 21st century of being the company that's always technologically behind the times and only does kids' games.

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SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.

Content atrophying... by DKroos · 2014-07-31 18:47 · Score: 2

I just went to a major game review site, scrolled down the ample front-page list of recently reviewed games...not a single one for Wii-U. Every other platform had multiple games reviewed in the last few weeks, not a single Wii-U title. Imagine saying that for any previous Nintendo platform - it's unthinkable.

We have untouched 3DS's and a WII, why buy more ? by bobjr94 · 2014-07-31 18:50 · Score: 2

Why keep paying 30$ - 50$ for each game the kids may play for a few hours to a few weeks at most. They can download tons of free to 3$ games on their tablets or phone.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2014-07-31 18:52 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by JDeane · 2014-07-31 19:05 · Score: 1

Some developers are still making 360 and PS3 games, those are also PPC based systems.

So lots of tools and talent will be available for the only PPC platform going into the future.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Yes going X86 has an advantage for easier PS4 and PC ports (Xbox One has "issues" so it requires a lot more effort that it looks like when your just considering the CPU arch alone.)

Another thing to consider, if I can get the port for my PC why would I need to buy a PS4 or an Xbox One? Last gen was bad enough with most of the great games released on the PC it felt pretty redundant to own a PS3. Now with easier ports... I am not sure I should even bother with the PS4 at all. I am already going to own a PC anyway, why not just spend the extra 400 bucks making it a gaming PC and enhance my PC experience at the same time.

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by phantomfive · 2014-07-31 19:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

FWIW the biggest problem in porting isn't the CPU architecture. It's not like you can share binaries between the platforms, and most of the code is not written in assembly anyway. The biggest time-suck tends to be different APIs

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"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."

not just the wii-u by luther349 · 2014-07-31 19:47 · Score: 1

seems everything next gen is lacking when it comes to games. then again so did the ps3 360 halfway threw there lives just some random fps every 6 months or so.

That has changed. by thegarbz · 2014-07-31 19:56 · Score: 2

There's been software updates recently that change that quite dramatically. There's no more waiting for the disc and there's no requirement to pick up the Wii U controller.

With a single click on the controller the Wii you will power up and start the game. Just grab your controller of choice. If the game disc isn't in then it will ask you to insert it. I haven't seen the home screen of the Wii U for a long time.

Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by thegarbz · 2014-07-31 19:58 · Score: 1

Ignore my other post.

Just like to point out the update which created the quicklaunch only came out in March or April of this year so your original post is not surprising at all. The Wii U used to have a horrible loading system.

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by thegarbz · 2014-07-31 20:04 · Score: 2

Who cares about the architecture? You're talking as if people didn't port games between consoles on the XBox 360 and the PS3 the latter which was also a Power based architecture.

People program in high level languages and then compile for different systems. The only thing really left then is optimising, and that is still an incredibly complicated task because while the remainder of the systems are x86 based, they are actually very different hardware architectures. Arguably the most portable is the Xbox and the PC since programming for either can be done using DirectX, however even then there are some massive differences between optimising a game for a PC and the Xbox, which has lead to some horrendous experiences on both platforms due to poor porting.

All of this doesn't really matter for Nintendo, just look at the titles they have released. They have always played their console hand very close to the chest and the vast majority of hit titles on their console are actually their own titles.

Lagging behind Xbox ?! by thetoadwarrior · 2014-07-31 20:19 · Score: 1

The Wii U had more systems sold the last time Microsoft gave numbers for the Xbox. In their last report Microsoft refused to clearly state how many xboxes sold were xbones and which were 360s so it's doing badly and probably still in third place. Hell they were / are taking a breaking from manufacturing in order to sell through what's on the shelves. Let's not try and pretend Nintendo is in some distant 3rd place position given they're probably in a somewhat distant 2nd place position.

"cost about a fraction" by Anonymous Coward · 2014-07-31 22:12 · Score: 1

and Nintendo must also contend with mobile games available on Apple and Google's app stores, which cost but a fraction of a Nintendo game.

That's because they're only worth a fraction. What a bullshit comment to make. I'm sure McDonalds is cheaper than your local star restaurant, but fuck me if I'll ever eat at one.

Also, "the Wii U is still lagging behind the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One consoles", I'm sure you'd love to believe the Xbox is doing so well but NEWSFLASH, it's selling less than the WiiU right now despite the price cut and still hasn't caught up with it in total sales numbers. Nintendo will soldier on, the most likely party to bow out of the console race at this moment is MICROSOFT whether you like it or not. I'm sure it's not what you want to believe, because the bullshit "Nintendo is doomed" narrative is something you're so goddamn invested in. Why? What the fuck is with you people?

I'd gladly pay them for real online Mario ... by cascadingstylesheet · 2014-07-31 22:16 · Score: 1

... but instead, my kids will just drive up ad revenue for those sites with all the Flash ripoffs. (To be fair, some of them quite creative.)

Re:I'd gladly pay them for real online Mario ... by XnavxeMiyyep · 2014-08-01 04:11 · Score: 1

Enough Plumbers is my favorite Mario flash ripoff.

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I put the 't' in electrical engineering.

Re: PS4 by jones_supa · 2014-08-01 00:28 · Score: 1

Why?

Need more than a cheap box by sjbe · 2014-08-01 00:30 · Score: 2

The reality is that you can build a decent set top box for casual gaming for under $50.

If it is so easy then why haven't you or anyone else done it? Sure you could probably come up with a cheap piece of hardware that can play simple games, though $50 is probably pushing it a bit. You'd have to do some serious volume to get to that sort of price point and to get that volume you'd have to have the software ready to go on day one or else no one will buy it. Chicken meet egg. Furthermore people already have a device they carry with them for casual gaming in the form of a smartphone. Why would they spend an extra $50 plus more for games to get something they already have in less convenient form. FDevices like Roku (which are close to that price point) could fill this function but pretty much nobody uses it for that even though it is possible today.

The reality is that the economics of that business are more complicated than building a cheap box and then hoping developers will flock to it. "Build it and they will come" is a pretty shitty business model in most cases.

Nintendo craps on their customers by deadweight · 2014-08-01 00:37 · Score: 1

The WII-U has a well known issue where the consoles get harder and harder to turn on and then die. We had this happen. When sent back to Nintendo they said "no warranty - you modded the console". Well sure the kids downloaded some mod to make their own maps in a game or something, but that does not cause power issues. Well we'll suck it up and PAY for the repair, right? Nintendo says NO - they wil NOT repair it for any amount of money. To add to the insult, if they repair it or you buy another one, either way paid-for downloadable content is GONE. They are reaping what they have sewn.

Re: PS4 by MitchDev · 2014-08-01 00:49 · Score: 1

I'll get my PS4 when there are some titles I'm actually interested in for it. I'm looking at you Disgaea

Not the same markets by wynterwynd · 2014-08-01 00:52 · Score: 2

iOS and Android games don't share the same market as the Wii U, it's dumb to compare them just because they're games. PS4 and Xbox One, sure, but mobile gaming is its own ecosystem. 95% of the iOS and Android games available don't even come close to major release titles in terms of scope and depth, and their prices reflect that. A person is extremely likely to own both a smartphone/tablet and a gaming console, and I seriously doubt anyone is going to have to weigh a purchase of a console game against that of a mobile game. It's like comparing Wii U games to board games just because they share a word.

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"Not all who wander are lost" -- JRR Tolkien

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by gman003 · 2014-08-01 00:55 · Score: 1

On the other hand, look at the previous generation:
Sony: modified PowerPC architecture
Microsoft: PowerPC architecture
Wii: PowerPC Architecture.

And before that:
Sony: MIPS
Microsoft: x86
Nintendo: PowerPC
Sega: SuperH

Prior to the PS4/Xb1, the only consoles to use x86 were the original Xbox, and a Japan-only handheld called the WonderSwan.

Remember, the WiiU was developed without knowledge of the PS4 or Xb1. You can't fault them for not following a trend that started after they released the WiiU.

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by timrod · 2014-08-01 01:14 · Score: 1

As someone who owns a PC and just bought a backwards-compatible PS3, I can say that owning a PS3 really isn't redundant. Owning a 360 is, because MS is pretty open about having 360 games ported to the PC, but Sony are tightwads with anything that lands on their system. For instance, after how well-received Dark Souls was on the PC, FROM wanted to port Demon's Souls... but couldn't, because Sony insisted upon owning the IP to Demon's Souls when it was released.

Now, owning a PS4 is a different beast altogether. I was initially going to buy a PS4 so I could play through some of the PS3 games I missed (Demon's Souls, Valkyria Chronicles, Jojo All Star Battle, Dragon's Crown, Dragon's Dogma) and catch up on the last two major upcoming releases for the PS3 (Persona 5 and Persona 4 Arena: Ultimax). I was all set to blow $400 on a PS4.. only to find out that the PS4 isn't at all backwards compatible with the PS3 and likely never will be outside of being able to do "timed rentals" of PS3 stuff on Gaikai and stream it.. but that won't happen until sometime in 2015.

Naturally, I went with the PS3, and I've got no regrets.

I'm buying games, not consoles by ArcadeMan · 2014-08-01 01:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

If there's both Zelda and Metroid made for the Wii U, I'll strongly consider buying it.

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Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins

Re:I'm buying games, not consoles by Psykechan · 2014-08-01 20:07 · Score: 1

The last original Zelda console game (Skyward Sword) was well reviewed but my least favorite Zelda game for many reasons. The last Metroid game (Metroid: Other M) was an atrocious mess. Better rephrase your statement with "good Zelda and Metroid".
Disclaimer: I own a Wii U and would strongly consider buying one if I didn't already have it for either a good Zelda or Metroid game.
Re:I'm buying games, not consoles by RyoShin · 2014-08-02 08:32 · Score: 1

Aye. Nintendo not only lost a ton of the "casual" market with the confusing name and GamePad (everyone had tablets, it wasn't novel nor interactive; IMHO they should have doubled-down on the Wiimote and made it even more accurate with some sort of haptic feedback), but they couldn't make up sales with their core market because they had nothing in their core franchises. Pikmin 3 and Wind Waker HD can only do so much, and NSMBU was just more of the same.
However, that's starting to turn around with a lot of their core (and some not) franchises on the horizon. The biggest is Super Smash Brothers (with the boring titles of "SSB for Wii U" and "SSB for 3DS".) The 3DS version comes out first, but WiiU looks to be early 2015 ("Q4 2014", currently). Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 both saw a surge in numbers, especially with the MK8 numbers posted for the past month. They've shown a new Zelda and have Hyrule Warriors coming out to tie over fans in the meantime. No Metroid or Star Fox, sadly, but those aren't nearly as big as Mario or Zelda. (And I'll take "no Metroid" over "Team Ninja Metroid" any day.) There are also some cult-classic sequels, Bayonetta 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles X, that will move less units but still create some fervor. (I'm holding off on buying a Wii U until Xenoblade Chronicles X, personally.)
Once the core franchises get core hits, sales will jump, and with those expanded sales might come more (competent) third party games, creating a positive feedback cycle. It won't be as big as when developers went "Oh shit!" when the Wii unexpectedly sold like hotcakes and started trying to pump out titles (leading to a glut of shovelware), but there is potential life in the Wii U yet.
I just hope Nintendo learns from their mistakes this gen (poor name, poor control setup, poor hardware) when the next rolls around.

Wii U was dumb move by Culture20 · 2014-08-01 01:59 · Score: 1

The type of people who bought the Wii will use it until it dies. Nintendo saturated the market and should have focused on selling Wii games or attachments. Of course, some MBA tool will decide that future consoles should self destruct when a newer console becomes available. That will kill your brand faster than anything.

Re:Wii U was dumb move by kamapuaa · 2014-08-01 05:29 · Score: 1

Huh? Most of the people who bought Wiis put it in the back of their closet after a few months. It has to be the least-used console ever made.

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Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.

Re: PS4 by IMightB · 2014-08-01 02:25 · Score: 1

Hrrm, perhaps its Sony history of trying to lock customers into shitty proprietary hardware. Or maybe the Sony rootkit fiasco. Or perhaps the other OS debacle.

Personally I'm with the GP on this one if I see Sony on anything, I start looking for other superior alternatives.

IMHO the last time Sony made a quality consumer level anything was the Walkman.... Their professional level stuff seems to be quality if you don't mind the lock-in.

Re: PS4 by jones_supa · 2014-08-01 02:47 · Score: 1

What lock-in?

Control limits by tepples · 2014-08-01 02:59 · Score: 1

If you just want to see what is there, you have to wade through pages of flappy bird clones, runners, and all the other crap just to see anything interesting.

I'm inclined to believe that runners like these are an artifact of the lack of directional control and discrete trigger buttons. Virtual gamepads don't work so well because the player can't feel where his thumbs are relative to the on-screen buttons. (I tried the free version of Pixeline and the Jungle Treasure and was disappointed with its control until I used a Bluetooth keyboard.) If the player is concentrating on the action in the middle, then the only control gestures that work are taps, tilts, and swipes, and those gestures are more suited to runners like Splashy Fish and Canabalt than to platformers with any sense of exploration.

Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by gmhowell · 2014-08-01 03:04 · Score: 2

I've heard of lazy, but this takes the cake. Or maybe, in your case, has the cake delivered, not to your front door, but to your sofa.

--
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon

Multiplayer by tepples · 2014-08-01 03:12 · Score: 1

Why shouldn't they code for PC instead?

Because apart from Hairyfeet, most people don't have the PC next to the TV or any other monitor big enough for 4 people to fit around.

Re:Multiplayer by aliquis · 2014-08-01 13:53 · Score: 1

That's very easy to fix though.
And there's console sized PCs which could be used for the purpose.
Re:Multiplayer by tepples · 2014-08-01 14:50 · Score: 1

And there's console sized PCs which could be used for the purpose.
I agree with you that this would be ideal. Toward this, what make and model would you recommend to people looking to buy a console-sized gaming PC instead of a Wii U or a PS4? Not everyone is knowledgeable enough about PCs to build his own from parts.
Re:Multiplayer by aliquis · 2014-08-01 16:32 · Score: 1

When we get the Steam boxes at large that will likely be easier.
Gigabyte have their Brix devices.
http://www.gigabyte.com/produc...
http://www.gigabyte.com/produc...
(they have more models)
One interesting Steam box design I saw was one which was hanged as a "backpack" on your TV.
I guess depending on whatever one already have a powerful PC or whatever one prefer tablets there may be a difference in whatever one would just want a simple box which can stream the games using the PC as rendering engine or a more capable one which will actually be running the games.
http://store.steampowered.com/...
http://store.steampowered.com/...
http://store.steampowered.com/...
Since the Steam controller and Steam machines with SteamOS was delayed Alienware launches with Windows 8.1, Steam and the Xbox 360 controller instead (the Xbox One work in Windows now too with official drivers but have to be connected with micro-USB cable rather than wireless, I don't know when they will fix wireless connection for it but I haven't bought one waiting for that to happen in case I can't buy it separately.)
http://www.alienware.com/landi...

WiiU is nothing like Wii by Parker+Lewis · 2014-08-01 04:16 · Score: 1

Wii had an easy controller, easy appealing games, like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. With WiiU, they said they gone hardcore. But the hardcores don't want Nintendo products. So, I'm a casual gamer. I loved Wii. My wife loved. My tiny kids loved, because it was easy. Now, with WiiU, they offer a bad tablet experience, that requires recharge all the time. No easy controller, no wide appealing games. Wii Sports, Wii Fit, all the best selling games for all the times. Nintendo is the only company over the world, that produced a big hit in the market (and their best selling product), and denied it totally later.

Re:WiiU is nothing like Wii by tfranzese · 2014-08-01 14:32 · Score: 1

Honestly, it doesn't sound like you've actually played with one for any amount of time. The tablet experience is great (has been since day one), all the Wii options are still there (including updated Wii Fit and Wii Sports iterations - both were late to the party, but better late than never). I read a lot of complaints about the Wii U, but unfortunately damn near all the complaints I read are from people who don't actually own one.

Buttons by tepples · 2014-08-01 04:17 · Score: 1

The 3DS has one big advantage over smartphones and tablets: it can handle games in genres that need directional controls and trigger buttons. A touch screen is good for racing games (of which runners are a subgenre), shmups, and point-and-click, but not much else.

Want to homebrew? Get a Mac mini or NUC by tepples · 2014-08-01 04:32 · Score: 1

When they finally hack the WiiU to do homebrew, you'll see an increase of console sales.

If someone wants something comparably capable to the Wii U for running homebrew, why doesn't he just buy a slim PC, such as a Mac mini or Intel NUC, and connect its HDMI out to a TV?

Android tablet as a PC controller by tepples · 2014-08-01 04:35 · Score: 1

Why can't the Wii U GamePad experience be had in theory on a PC plus an Android gaming tablet? I was under the impression that one could use an NVIDIA Shield, an Archos GamePad, or a JXD tablet as a PC controller and get the same experience.

You can't spell con-TROLL-er without... by tepples · 2014-08-01 04:48 · Score: 1

I think Slashdot's filter is detecting the word "troll" multiple times in your comment. Otherwise, thank you for your insight.

Thumb drift on phone and tablets by tepples · 2014-08-01 04:56 · Score: 1

Until they get frustrated at not being able to make a jump because their thumbs keep slipping off the on-screen buttons. Look at Pixeline and the Jungle Treasure for example. I tried its free version on my Nexus 7 tablet, and it was heck just trying to keep my thumbs in the right place.

Re:Agreed by Richy_T · 2014-08-01 05:21 · Score: 1

Though until recently the Xbox required a live account to use netflix (which is why the xbox ended up gathering dust).

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by CronoCloud · 2014-08-01 06:50 · Score: 1

only to find out that the PS4 isn't at all backwards compatible with the PS3 and likely never will be outside of being able to do "timed rentals" of PS3 stuff on Gaikai and stream it.. but that won't happen until sometime in 2015.

Playstation Now Open Beta is up and running as of right now. The Selection isn't large yet.

Game Series Timing Failure by grilled-cheese · 2014-08-01 06:56 · Score: 1

Nintendo has about a half dozen or less strong game series supporting the platform (Mario Kart, Super Smash Bro., Mario Party, Zelda, or Metroid for example). They royally hosed themselves when they released a next gen console without the backing of these series. Nobody wanted the console because they couldn't play the series games they loved. Instead, those people went out and bought a new media center or phone/tablet which doubled as a gaming platform. If they wanted to sell the WiiU, all they had to do was time their major game series release dates to within 6-12 months of the console release. This would have kept a strong console buzz going in the market long enough for Nintendo to get their console into people's home. Creating artificial product scarcity didn't help either.

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Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by TheEgolf · 2014-08-01 09:11 · Score: 1

I bought the Wii U at launch, and IIRC, you could always use the Wii U Pro controller to turn on the system, select a game. Left analogue stick gives you a cursor; if the WaraWara Plaza [Mii Plaza] is on TV screen, X to switch. Unfortunately mine mostly collects dust, as I'm a PC gamer at heart, but I wouldn't trade it for a PS4/XB1.

Re:Nintendo... by Windwraith · 2014-08-01 11:02 · Score: 1

Fire Emblem is quite competent actually, you are right. I think they are respectable, although I am personally more fond of Front Mission or Disgaea (few other SRPGs allow infinite maps AND item upgrades at the same time, that's a feature I wish more games adopted or even blatantly copied).

The thing about Bank is that, despite planning XY's release for that date, they decided to do the migration to NN immediately after the servers are going to, inevitably, take a massive increase in load. They can't do anything right related to server loads and infrastructure for online services, despite pushing for it themselves. God knows what kind of hierarchical mess they got inside to be unable to plan ahead for events they schedule themselves. I bet this is the typical scenario of division A stepping over division B instead of having a 5-minute meeting to plan things with a minimum of organization.

Re:Nintendo Has an R&D Problem by phantomfive · 2014-08-01 14:34 · Score: 1

Wow, hello Mr Context-impaired. VMWare is tough to port, but that is an artifact of VMWare: it deals directly with the architecture. Games don't.

Learn how the context of a conversation makes a difference, it will make your life better.

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."

Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by Teckla · 2014-08-02 03:39 · Score: 1

1. Grab Tablet.

I have a Wii-U. I consider the tablet bulky and inconvenient, without offering enough advantage in exchange for the inconvenience. It often needs to be plugged in, making it even more inconvenient.

Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by jaminJay · 2014-08-03 19:35 · Score: 1

The quick start feature has been mentioned elsewhere, but you can now control the menu, as well as other apps that were restricted to the GamePad and Stylus such as eShop and Internet Browser, with Wii Remote or Pro Controllers.

--
Leela: "Is all the work done by children?" Alien: "No, not the whipping."

Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by gmhowell · 2014-08-03 22:26 · Score: 1

Boohoo, lazy basement dweller thinks he is the only person to work a twelve hour shift.

Look, the tyranny of having to put down one remote control device in order to pick up a second device is perhaps a textbook example of 'first world problems'.

Hey, I can solve the world's problems in one go. You are an underemployed super genius. Nintendo is staffed and managed by people who are short bus riding morons. You go there, get a 9-5, and parades will be thrown in your honor.

--
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon

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Re:I owned a WiiU for 1 month..... by gmhowell · 2014-08-04 23:14 · Score: 1

Poor, poor ignored armchair CEO. "If only they would listen to me! ME! ME!"

--
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon

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