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Swedish Dad Takes Gamer Kids To Warzone
Z00L00K sends this excerpt from The Local:
A Swedish father has come under fire for taking his two sons on a trip to Israel, the West Bank and occupied Syria in order to teach them the reality of war. [Carl-Magnus Helgegren is] a journalist, university teacher, and proactive dad. And like so many other dads, Helgegren had to have the violent video-game conversation with his two sons, Frank and Leo, aged ten and 11 respectively. "We were sitting at the dinner table last autumn, and my kids started telling me about this game they wanted to play, the latest Call of Duty game, and told me about the guns and missions," Helgegren told The Local on Friday. So Helgegren struck a deal. The family would take a trip to a city impacted by real war. The boys would meet people affected, do interviews, and visit a refugee camp. And when they came back home, they would be free to play whatever games they chose.
I love how people insist on commenting on what fathers or mothers do to teach their children about reality. If you did not hand them weapons or put them in the line of fire (keep in mind in some countries even that is perfectly acceptable for a 12 year old), then mind your own freekin beeswax. Why is this even a /. story?
Side note? I would do the same with my kids if I actually got up off my ass and stopped typing on computers for 10 minutes. Sad.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
Uhhm, OK, uhhh...I'm sorry, why is this on Slashdot?
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Back in my day, parents would say, "you want that? Save up your money! I'll pay you 50 cents every time you mow the lawn, now get to work." And I was grateful!
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
If they see themselves on the winning side, they'll want even more war. They get to leave the war zone, the refuges are stuck. A week will teach nothing. They need to know years of war and what it does.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
No, seriously. This guy was thinking of his children.
I think it's great that he wants to give them a dose of reality. I think a lot of us in the US (and not just kids) could use that kind of experience.
Does it pose some risk to the kids? Yeah, sure. Growing up has all sorts of risks.
Which is why some of us never do.
Dad: let's risk our son's lives to make a point.
Mom: cool.
"And when they came back home, they would be free to play whatever games they chose."
That opens up so many possibilities...
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
"Kids get in the car. We're goin' to the box factory!"
crazy dynamite monkey
"A Swedish father has come under fire for interacting with the real world."
Perhaps a self-referential one: "My dad took me to a war zone and all I got was this stolen T-Shirt?"
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
We discussed all kinds of issues:
Bombings, genocide, gas chambers, blockades, dictators.
They get it. They know war is horrible and they know what a game is.
It's called parenting. I applaud this guy's efforts.
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
It's a grayer area than that. Blasting Nazis on Mars or whatever was one thing, but the US Department of Defense now throws millions of dollars at game developers, tasking them with making war look like just another extreme sport.
IMHO (and in the opinion of most credible researchers) even these games are not directly psychologically damaging to young people. But I don't like the message they are engineered to send. It sounds like this father has found a great way to give his kids an inside look at the game they're really being trained to play.
I would just teach my children the difference between reality and fiction. This might be a useful lesson for the dad as well.
If he did then he wouldn't have been able to come up with the idea of teaching his kids the difference between fantasy and reality.
...that I wanted to play Leisure Suit Larry...
So, I say this sounds like a perfect education. You kids like playing war? Lets go see what war really is because games & stories don't do it justice. Look it in the eyes and you won't treat it like a game anymore.
When they're adults, these kids will be able to look back and use this experience to make an informed decision on whether or not to fight in whatever conflict their country gets into. Sweden's next generation of decision makers will be better equipped because of the presence of these kid's experience.
but... but US is the "global Force for Good"
are you eeeeveeel?
For some reason, what goes through my head, is that on return they'd want to write a war simulator from the civilian perspective.
But I took an arrow to the knee.
Bye!
What would the dad have done if this were around eight years ago and his kids wanted to play Persona 3? Live demonstration of how shooting yourself in the head with a handgun doesn't cause physical manifestations of Jungian psychology to come out and fight demons and/or date unrealistic Japanese girls for you?
Intent matters. Did he intend to harm his kids ? He didn't. He was putting them in harm's way to some degree, but he did that in order to teach them valuable lessons and to make them more experienced, wiser kids. I can't say that I think parents can expose their kids to *any* level of risk for any reason, but I'm also not at all a fan of the idea that kids need to grow up in some kind of silky coccoon, always protected from any and every slight or danger. There's merit in overcoming fear and danger, imho. It's a view of course not shared by those with a more utilitarian view of what life is about.
Ask someone, anyone, who has been to a region in which people fight to survive, and has to the smallest extent, even by simply talking to those people, shared their experiences. Unfailingly, the person will tell you that the experience changed his or her perspective, and that since then he is better, larger, more generous.
If you starve for a few days for the lack of food, a spoonful of plain, white, unsalted rice will taste better than the richest gourmet meal. My memory of the bowl of rice I had after 4 days of hunger is a calming, delicious memory. It was not the relief of having got food - but my whole body rejoicing from the taste of the soft, wholesome, starchy taste filling up in my mouth - a taste that I had not recognized until then.
We in the west are shielded from the harsh realities of life, little do we know that we are not exempt of them, we only ignore them, until one day it becomes impossible to do so. But if you have to face such realities then the perverse suffering caused by banalities - Internet connection going down, personal relationship problems simply dither away into insignificance.
I think it would be beneficial to society as a whole if every education included such encounters which teach people that life cannot be compared to the boom and splat of video games.
Fixed title for you.
Call of Duty is nothing like actual war. instead, you should make the kids go camping for 3 days with nothing but ritz crackers, peanut butter and beef jerky. at the end, when they want to come home, phone them and let them know they did a great job so they get to camp for 3 more days. Occasionally drop off toilet paper and a roll of smartys, tell them its good for their morale. At the end of this 3 days, insist they stay 3 more days but this time leave a gas generator running next to the tent. If this is done in July, remember to stop by and stand near the generator telling bad jokes. Insist that they should appreciate it because its part of your effort to boost their morale as well. replace the beef jerky with baby food randomly. At the end of the week, take them a package of socks, gatorade and deodorant, then remove it and apologise as its for another kid with the same name also camping.
Good people go to bed earlier.
...back in the early Unreal and Quake days, we used to death match constantly. Of course rocket launchers were a favorite. I vaguely recall some mods that increased the number of bots and the number of gibs - the bits of body pieces that would be flung around from a kill - to ridiculous amounts. Add in some gravity tweaks so we could jump, bounce, float and it was pretty ridiculous. But we kept playing, kept getting better, twitch shooting faster and more accurately, and the whole thing got an almost comical sense to it.
Then I saw Saving Private Ryan. While I was already very familiar with WWII, having seen many documentaries, I'd never seen something that so graphically depicted what the D-Day landing was "really like". SPR showed it in a way I just hadn't seen before; Gruesome. Brutal. People getting chewed up by machine guns, really blown to bits, the infamous scene of the guy picking up his own arm and stumbling off with it, etc.
Sometime later that eve I picked my gaming back up but on the first rocket launch it was no longer fun. I literally had the movie scenes haunting me in my mind.
Over time I lost my sensitivity again and, to some extent, got back into ridiculous first-person-shooting (boom! pow! gibs!) but never to the extent that I had. Almost always at some point that moment of clarity comes back and bugs me. I've also gotten older and just don't have the time to waste gaming any longer, but that eye opening experience sticks with me.
Yes, lets teach our kids that war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide is always bad, that there is no good reason http://bergen-belsen.stiftung-ng.de/ (german) for war. That a kind human being http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot would never unjustly war upon people. So when the next meglo-manical dictator comes along with the urge to rule the world, lots of little "war is bad" people will refuse to fight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_powers_during_World_War_II and make everyone's job easier.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Not really, video games AREN'T REAL!
Actually, if you RTFA they had to respawn twice.
Blank until
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Little problem there, pal.
If EVERYONE did this, then there would be a scarce few idiots to join in behind dangerous, power-mad people, like the ones you mentioned.
Why? Because they would know that what that guy wanted, would lead to war, and know exactly what it is.
What REALLY contributes to those kinds of atrocities you cited, are people who think war is OK for "the right reasons".
Those people can be made to commit atrocities.
http://www.goodreads.com/quote...
Take your kids to a VA hospital or a VFW hall, not to a freaking war zone. Irresponsible, over-reacting parent...
Kids should be taught that war is horrible, but that sometimes that horribleness needs to be undertaken to prevent something even worse. I don't agree with the "War is never the answer" bumper stickers I see here and there, but war should never be the first answer. War should be our last option after all other options are exhausted. You should beware of people who either a) think that you should never engage in war ever or b) are itching to rush into a war. The former will let atrocities happen while they wag their fingers at the perpetrators. The latter will cause bloodshed (on both sides) when diplomacy could have been used instead.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
"Here Junior, stop watchin' that porn and step over here to watch your mum and i having sex... that's what it's really like..."
I sat down with my 12 yo gamer son and watched the movie 'Hamburger Hill'. That took a lot of the glamour out of FPS games.
Next time, I'll try with 'Platoon'.
TCAP-Abort
My oldest has just gotten into Mario Kart 8. Should I strap him into the car, drive it down the highway at insane speeds, and have him toss objects out of the windows at other cars? Maybe I'm doing parenting wrong.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Typical American - "You're not raising your children the way I think children should be raised, so you're wrong!"
At least, it sure as hell seems that way. It's understandable to want to call obviously bad parents on obviously egregious acts, like beating a child, but we 'Muricans take it to the next level, demanding government action any time someone wants to rear their own offspring in a way that certain segments of society have deemed unfit.
Let your kid walk a 1/2 mile to the park and play by himself? We used to call that normal, now it's a criminal offense.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Great stuff! Way to not let them live in a fantasy world...
Agreed, up until a social component is added to the game experience. Suddenly war isn't just fun, it's normal.
The world needs a lot more dads like him I would gladly vote for him to be the Dad of the year.
Jack of all trades,master of none
My dad did that, but for fairly different reasons. His friends convinced him that their area of Yugoslavia was pretty unimpacted by fighting, so we visited. It was honestly one of the more interesting vacations I've taken; the entire country was completely economically devistated. Fortunately I don't think any of the involved governments (we're American) ever found out about that somewhat irresponsible vacation.
My kid is playing Rocksmith an hour a night, and using *my* guitar to do it.
I'm going to threaten to take her to a rock concert. That'll teach her the difference between playing the guitar and people playing a guitar on stage.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I think this guy is a media whore looking for attention at the expense of his children. I can only say anecdotally, that having known a reporter that covered the situation in Palestine this was a bad thing to do. Even as a grown adult he was severely traumatized by the experience to the point that he would burst in to tears recounting his experience of the violence, cruelty and misery he had witnessed and was forced to get himself posted to a more sedate part of the world covering less 'glamourous' issues. This stuff is not a fucking package holiday Helgregren. Asshole.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Top tip if you have a rental car in Israel. You can pick up a hitch hiking soldier and get your personal armed escort, who in addition to having a mean looking gun, knows the way and can give directions.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Defense now throws millions of dollars at game developers, tasking them with making war look like just another extreme sport.
Yea I don't suppose you have a citation on that one? Closest I've heard of is the America's Army series, and they're pretty open about that being a recruiting/education tool.
The issue, is that you have governments that dont know the meaning of a peaceful "no."
You know, like,
"Hey bro-- I see you have lots of untapped oil resources. Would you please make some backroom deals with me so I can get some of it real cheap? I'll give you all the stuff to get it out of the ground for a reasonable bait and switch arrangement..."
"no, your deal is clearly not in our best interests. Seek your oil elsewhere."
"Oh, sorry to hear you say that..." (Turns around, spreads propoganda in his own country to rile up the 'For the right reasons' crowd) "For FREEDOM!(tm)"
(censored)
[sounds of killing and horrors of war of scene]
[new scene, completely different person is now in charge of the other country.]
"Thanks so much for putting me in power! Now, how can I help you?"
"yes, about that oil...."
THIS is why we must not allow people to be moved by speeches about "right reasons" for war. There would never have been a war without them. That's the point.
The argument in favor of 'For the right reasons' revolves around war being inevitable and necessary. It is a logical tautology.
"War is needed, because war exists(elsewhere)"
By that reasoning ithe subject of the game doesn't have to be war. If the kids play Fruit Ninja the dad should take them to a poverty-striken third world country that is having a food shortage, so they no longer want to trivialize the act of destroying food. As you said, starvation is something that Westerners are normally shielded from. "You're teaching people that life cannot be compared to the boom and splat of video games".
Yet it would be obviously ludicrous to do that.
The reason for this to be a Slashdot article is twofold. 1) We get to rant about bad parents (always a good time) and 2) This may harm video game companies bottom lines (and if it's not EA or Zynga we hit a sore spot!).
I'm with you, I think he's a great dad. It's not like he drove his car into a shelling in progress or stuck them in windows with AK47s while troops were hunting down snipers. He went to an area after the fact and let his kids talk to real victims of a real war. In my opinion that's awesome, and I wish my dad was like that.
My dad was the typical "American" dad, like they put on pedestals in TV shows. You know the kind. He drank a lot and watched lots of sports (usually at a bar neglecting his family), collected unemployment as often as possible, and tried to be as much like Archie Bunker as possible. That kind of guy. (For you youngsters, Archie Bunker was a more racist version of Al Bundy. If you don't know Al Bundy, I can't help you. I hate TV shows.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Are they realistic to war? Of course not. But then, I haven't seen any games that are realistic to anything. Their point is to be fun, not realistic.
You seem to be fairly typical for the military types I know (which is more than a couple) in that they quite enjoy the make believe of FPS games, despite having experienced the reality of combat.
While not quite as extreme, I can point to myself and enjoying computer/hacker games like Introversion's Uplink. I'm a network and systems administrator professionally. I know quite a bit about network security and how this stuff really works, and I don't at all believe black hat hackers that bust in to systems are glamours, they are criminal dickheads. However, I enjoy Uplink. It is not at ALL realistic. It is a fictional version of hacking on fictional computers ins a fictional Internet. And it's fun.
I'm not sure why people get so worked up about FPS games, like they are changing attitudes on war or anything. No, they are just games, and it turns out humans really can tell the difference between fiction and reality.
he is giving his children a dose of reality.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
War should be our last option after all other options are exhausted.
There is a big difference between "war should be considered as a last resort to get our way" and "war shouldn't be considered at all except as a way to prevent something even worse" (where the list of things considered "worse than war" is extremely short). Whether war is justified at all is a more important issue than where it ranks on a list of options, though I do agree that other options should always come first.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
Soon after returning from Syria, one of the boys didn't want to go to school because he had a sniffle and a mild fever. So next month the family is packing up again for another trip - this time to West Africa to visit with families affected by the Ebola outbreak. While they're there, with any luck, they will be able to stumble upon a village completely wiped out by the virus. While some have labeled the plan ill timed and the motivations just plain sick, the father hopes that the children will come to appreciate their health if they can interview a dying infectee with blood spewing from every orifice.
Meanwhile, the boys have withdrawn their requests to go see the new Hunger Games movie, and no longer complain about being hot, cold, bored, or anything else.
So, it may be a bit too much for the kids, actually (as someone already suggested).
But still, it's a good idea. In these war-zones, "Game Over" really is more than two words.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Isn't it odd that kids are very obviously far better able to tell fiction from reality? Who was it that had the bright idea of "hey, let's go take a vacation in a war zone!"
The kids?
Or their dad?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
True, but this is another reason why people should know that war is a horrible affair and should only be a last resort. If we combined that with a heavy dose of skepticism of anything that comes out of a politician's mouth, the world would be a better place.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Finally, a rational thought expressed on Slashdot.
I've done a bit of work at AMES and it didn't make me play Kerbal Space Program any less!
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
There-in lies the rub.
Politicians are expert liars and manipulators. They have agendas. they arent always good, and almost always have some kind of barb in them. Positions of power attract those who hunger for power, and that hunger is insatiable.
What is "War for what I want" to the politician, he spins as "War to prevent $atrocity" to his citizenry.
As voltaire pointed out, those who believe absurdities, can be made to commit atrocities.
The absurdity is that there is a justification for war to begin with-- a "right reason." To the politician, that just means he needs to push that "right reason" button, and you will go to war for him, and he will get what he wants.
Be it "Spreading freedom" or "assisting a revolt" or whatever.
Think about what war actually *IS*.
"I disagree with you, so strongly, that I feel compelled to use lethal violence against you to either eliminate you, or force you to adopt my position in this argument."
When you look at war that way, all pretext of "right reasons" dissolves.
As I pointed out earlier, "War is necessary because war exists(elsewhere)!" is a tautology. That is what "Violence in the name of self-defense" is. "My violence is necessary because there is violence (elsewhere)!"
Hello there, you look like you are pretty destitute because of these recent military actions...lost some loved ones did you? And a few body parts? And all your worldly possessions? Well, as you sit here wallowing in abject misery, think you could spare a few minutes to talk my kids out of playing a video game?
Thanks.
A kid has every right to say "50 cents for 4 minutes. It's the law."
Your defending a parent who was concerned about VIDEO GAMES, so took his kids to a WAR ZONE to learn about what real war is like?
Stupid and irresponsible comes to mind.
That's like teaching gun safety to your kids by shooting them in the leg, "See now you know how it feels, so be careful".
Anyway I usually try not to be judgey but to react to an imaginary issue, with such an over the top answer is pretty crazy.
Like the Dungeon and Dragons scare of the 1980 and 90's and forcing your kids to live in a cult commune for a week to understand reality...
It is an overreaction.
How nice of him to take his children to the most peaceful country in the Middle East. To show them war he could take them to actual Syria, rather then "Occupied Syria", which is actually called Golan Heights. Though I readily admit that it's occupied somewhat illegally, it has been peaceful since 1967.
Of course, he is a responsible father, and he wouldn't take his children to a place that is actually dangerous. It's a shame that he'll probably tell them uninformed propaganda about Israel. Oh well.
Reality is even more interesting if you care to check facts on the ground.
The DoD has developed one video game, America's Army. It is not particularly popular, in part because they seem to be overly concerned with keeping things somewhat true to the army. You have to do a basic training set before it'll let you play, like you have to go and qualify using the rifle in game. Can't play unless you do. Wanna be a medic? You have to take an in game class that lasts like a half an hour, and then take a test. In the game itself it works similar to actual military wargames in that you always are the US Army, and you play again "OPFOR" the Army's professional opposing force (basically you see your team as army, the enemy as OPFOR).
It isn't "realistic" because really nothing can accurately simulate the horrors of combat, but it is really not something that glorifies combat. It could be called an elaborate army training simulator. Want a taste of what training in the army might be like? This is a reasonable starting point.
As you say, CoD is NOT developed, or endorsed, by the government. Call of Duty is owned by Activision Blizzard, a public company in California. It is developed by 3 teams (alternating years) Infinity Ward, Treyarch, and Sledgehammer Games, all California companies that are subsidiaries of Activision Blizzard.
Think of the fact that something like this might give them PTSD. Dealing with a war zone can be traumatic for adults with training, experience, and perspective. It can be far worse for children.
Also it does rather seem to be an unnecessary risk. While childhood has risks to be sure, part of your duty as a guardian is to minimize those risks as feasible. You weigh risks vs rewards, and try to find safe options when possible.
So maybe taking kids to a war zone is not the best idea. Maybe a better idea is to talk to them, watch some movies, read books, perhaps have a friend who's a war vet have a conversation.
Of course this strikes me as a journalist being a press whore. He's doing this because he can make it a story, not because he's being a good father.
That is what "Violence in the name of self-defense" is. "My violence is necessary because there is violence (elsewhere)!"
It sounds like you're arguing for the pacifist position. While I would agree that there is never any good reason to start a war, nor to escalate one, I have to say that simply laying down and dying on cue when an enemy attacks is not a particularly attractive option, nor one I feel anyone is obligated to accept. As a universal principle it would inevitably be self-defeating, as the more ethical side would always be wiped out, leaving those inclined toward war to dominate by default.
It may take two sides to fight a war, but it only takes one side to start it. The victim of an attack has a right to proportional self-defense. I moreover have no objection to others voluntarily choosing to aid in that defense. The key point is to consciously limit yourself to just stopping the attack, as decisively as possible but with a minimum of collateral damage, without becoming the very thing you're fighting against.
"The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
Sorry, I can't finish this post. I have to go yell at the &#@* neighborhood kids on my lawn!!!!!1111
Young males already romanticize war. Video games/movies/novels frequently encourage that. Just because they're fictional, doesn't mean they don't affect people's opinions.
When you learn some psychology, you quickly realize a game is more than TV. Especially if the game is 1st person and made to immerse the player as possible. It can be done in ways to NOT key into that but since a large demo plays them as a form of imaginary fantasy dreamworld... the same people who'd kill to get a real world holodeck.
Basic therapy techniques:
Analyzing hypothetical situations
Role Playing.
Hypnosis Role Playing; like dreaming - not stage show hypnosis.
Conditioning thru repetitive behaviors; ideally tied to specific situational triggers.
The techniques used to help people with minor to severe mental problems can end up unintentionally mirrored in a video game but it's not an expert controlled situation-- they are not going to push all the wrong emotional buttons of a mental case but a game can do it, or a movie. It's not like TV/movie watchers are not in a semi-hypnotic state of mind that is lower than consciousness... game players are probably more mentally active; however that doesn't make it less of a problem. Therapy not using hypnosis is often more effective; for example.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I have seen first hand a gypsy neighborhood raised by bulldozers.
Apparently, Hillary Clinton was wrong... it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a group of bulldozers.
Only a few short years ago (well about 1000), your average Swede would have been giving their children nice shiny longswords, placing them on a boat and encouraging them to tour the world and kill people....
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
This is awesome. I bet he's very thoughful about it - you don't do this sort of thing on a whim. Truth is, his boys will have a lesson for life and are very likely to end up way more useful to themselves and society than the average couch potato that plays CoD and doesn't think once about how much of a war simulator it may be.
If I'd have a son that would be into CoD or other warfare simulators and would have the time and resources, I'd do the same. I'd like to take my daughter and her friends to visit the sweatshops in Bangladesh, where the Primark clothes are made. Sadly, I don't have the time or resources. ... But she was in malasia for half a year. Indian family where girls/women are second-class citizens and slave-servants sleeping on the floor and all. She did learn her share.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Show your kids new not strongly censored for death bodies and an few living rooms hit by a bomb, and let them draw their own conclusions.
And give them some war games with an ambivalent story (e.g. DUNE/C&C) and let them play all sides and let them write down how the stated facts differ between the personal advisors of each party.
Should help them more in understanding wars.
Well yea, recruiting is the entire reason for the existence of AA, nobody disputes that. The GPP however was insinuating that the only reason (or at least one of the main reasons) war FPS games in general exist is because the DoD funds them. That's silly, franchises like CoD and BF make money hand over fist, there's no reason for the DoD to bribe someone to make them.
"Kids get in the car. We're goin' to the sewers!"
GTA: "Kids get in the car. We're goin' to prison!"
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
Good to see some parents still have a good amount of common sense.
How can one just up and write a substantial 3D game? I was under the impression that it took years of experience making games for other studios in the industry in order to get the process knowledge, contacts, and verifiable experience (to qualify for a console devkit) to start one's own project of substantial scope. Or were you thinking a 2D RPG/sim intended for mouse or touch screen control, something that's more within an indie budget?
Violent fantasies are completely harmless by themselves. Also, you wouldn't insist on showing a four year-old child graphic images of bite victims before giving them a toy T-Rex.
Correction. If they came back home....