Munich Council Say Talk of LiMux Demise Is Greatly Exaggerated

ndogg (158021) writes "The rumors of Munich's city government going back to Microsoft seem to have been greatly exaggerated. There was a review of the city's IT systems that was called for by the mayor, but it wasn't solely just to decide on whether to move back to Microsoft. And while there have been complaints about LiMux, they mostly seem to concern compatibility with OpenOffice.org, which may well be resolved by switching to LibreOffice."

Comments

Trying to create fire from smoke

[MadX]

Honestly, if there is a remote possibility that a change back could help spread FUD, it's going to be pounced upon.

Re:Trying to create fire from smoke

[MickyTheIdiot]

I was too busy to make comments when this story came up, but I've worked providing IT for offices for a good part of my life. You can get secretaries to bitch about anything. Moving to Windows so they can use the corporate-blessed Microsoft Office doesn't help that. You will still get bitching and moaning.

You are always going to have problems with any type of "office" app because of the people using it.

Re:Trying to create fire from smoke

[gweihir]

They have a stupid lawyer as new major that has zero understanding of IT, but is in bed with Microsoft. That is what is going on there. The "stupid" is because he makes claims without a shred of evidence and expects them to be believed. Even people from his own party in the city council are calling him a moron (in more polite, but no less clear terms).

Re:Trying to create fire from smoke

[mspohr]

This reminds me of a story told by some very old time IBM reps.
The Selectric typewriter was newly installed for an executive secretary. She complained that the keys were too hard to press. The full IBM support team came to investigate the complaint. They were originally flummoxed because there is no adjustment for key pressure on the typewriter. However, one of them had a brilliant idea. Inserting a screwdriver into the back of the typewriter, he turned it slowly one way then another while the secretary typed. Eventually she pronounced it "fixed".
Now that's customer service.

Re:Trying to create fire from smoke

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, if there is a remote possibility that a change back could help spread FUD, it's going to be pounced upon.

Of course it is, look at the previous story on this topic and you will see slashdotters scrambling over eachother to announce their conspiracy theories!

Despite not actually seeing any of the complaints in question many people had already passed judgement that this must be some sort of political and corporate corruption and the reason is that many (not all) FOSS advocates/developers *do not take criticism well*, it is always "blame the competition" or "blame the user" rather than "let's admit that there may be a problem, understand the issue and work to resolve it". You see it all over but particularly on slashdot, the logical response is to understand and resolve the problem but FOSS is so close to the hearts of many here that it provokes an emotional response of vitriol and unsubstantiated conspiracy theories instead.

Re:Trying to create fire from smoke

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of a story told by some very old time IBM reps.
The Selectric typewriter was newly installed for an executive secretary. She complained that the keys were too hard to press. The full IBM support team came to investigate the complaint. They were originally flummoxed because there is no adjustment for key pressure on the typewriter. However, one of them had a brilliant idea. Inserting a screwdriver into the back of the typewriter, he turned it slowly one way then another while the secretary typed. Eventually she pronounced it "fixed".
Now that's customer service.

It's the same when you're having sexual intercourse with one of them (secretaries, not typewriters)

NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is for loser hippie neckbeards. Use a real kernel developed by professional buttondown researchers. NT is best.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

impressive that you still managed to write that, desipte regular windows update reboots, BSODs and flying chairs.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

If constant reboots and BSODs are still your impression of Windows, you should give it another try with a more recent version. Things are quite smooth these days, thanks to the NT6 kernel.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not care! :D

Re:NT is best

[wertigon]

I still regularly get "need to upgrade reboots" on my Windows machine. It's atleast once a month and always seems to pop up when I'm playing a game of LoL or CS:Go.

Yes, I use my Windows as a Wintendo. Got a problem with that?

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to feed a troll.

Re:NT is best

[mwvdlee]

Linux is for loser hippie neckbeards, Linux is for greedy capitalist pigs, Linux is for average Janes and Joes; Linux is for everyone.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone have a problem with that? The fact you still use it just proves you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

That is simple to mend too. Go to Windows Update settings in Control Panel. Select "Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them". After this it shouldn't pop up anything on your face when you are gaming.

Re:NT is best

[donaldm]

If constant reboots and BSODs are still your impression of Windows, you should give it another try with a more recent version. Things are quite smooth these days, thanks to the NT6 kernel.

Err! Win NT6.0 was Microsoft Windows Vista and we know how everyone loved that. Even with NT6.1 (Microsoft Windows 7) you still could get constant reboots and BSODs (first hand experience). Still NT6.2 (MS Win 8) and NT3 (MS Win 8.1) may me stable to you but that GUI IMHO looks like something designed by a 5 year old.

Over 7 years ago I switched to a Linux distro and have never looked back.

Re:NT is best

[just_another_sean]

Hmm... That's not what I heard.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

If constant reboots and BSODs are still your impression of Windows, you should give it another try with a more recent version. Things are quite smooth these days, thanks to the NT6 kernel.

I would but my days of using Fisher price toys are long gone!

Re:NT is best

[HangingChad]

you should give it another try

Why? What compelling features does Windows offer that I don't already have? I want to know about Window's value proposition. With software as a service becoming the predominant model, the software you need to get work done is available on any platform. At home I work on Linux, when I travel I take my Android tablet and work just fine on that. I can write and post stories, with pictures and video, from anywhere.

A few years ago the Microsoft faithful used to make such a big deal about if you wanted to do "real work" you needed Windows. Doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It's great the blue screens are mainly in the past but I'm still missing a reason to get a Windows device.

Re:NT is best

[Lonewolf666]

Err! Win NT6.0 was Microsoft Windows Vista and we know how everyone loved that. Even with NT6.1 (Microsoft Windows 7) you still could get constant reboots and BSODs (first hand experience). Still NT6.2 (MS Win 8) and NT3 (MS Win 8.1) may me stable to you but that GUI IMHO looks like something designed by a 5 year old.

Agreed about the GUI in Windows 8 (and it is desktop-user unfriendly too) but Windows 2000 and above were stable enough for me, good hardware and drivers given. I have, however, seen a few cases where hardware problems or flaky drivers caused BSODs.

You write that you switched to Linux over seven years ago. That would be in the XP timeframe. Did you use the same hardware as for XP, or something different?

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Over 7 years ago I switched to a Linux distro and have never looked back.

Mostly because after all this time, Linux still doesn't support head rotation.

Re:NT is best

[thaylin]

I believe there was a recent patch Tuesday that caused massive BSODs, so not sure your point really sticks.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

As indicated in another reply, this is a DFO error. Dumb Fucking Operator.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, misinformed troll, most people had absolutely no problem with Vista. Yes, the new driver model caused some problems initially for some users, by overall the benefits outweighed the problems in a majority of cases. Remember, Windows is used on 90% of the world's personal computers. Linux is used on a tiny minority of desktop computers by people who generally accept having to tinker and fiddle with problems to get things working. If a particular driver or bug causes problems for just 5% of the Linux userbase, this is a tiny number of people, too small to make headlines. A problem on Windows gets widespread attention.

Over 7 years ago I switched to a Linux distro and have never looked back.

That explains your problem. You're clearly a Linux zealot. Who, like most, haven't used Windows in a long time. The desktop environments (Gnome, KDE, Xfce, ect.) on Linux are ugly, slow, buggy, and generally shitty. But, as a Linux zealot, you have no choice, thus you embrace them, warts and all.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

True he is using Windows.

Re:NT is best

[Barsteward]

"The desktop environments (Gnome, KDE, Xfce, ect.) on Linux are ugly, slow, buggy, and generally shitty. But, as a Linux zealot, you have no choice, thus you embrace them, warts and all."

pot, kettle black. you've obviously never used a linux desktop.

Re:NT is best

[Unknown74]

" The desktop environments (Gnome, KDE, Xfce, ect.) on Linux are ugly, slow, buggy, and generally shitty." Shows what very little you know. The main problem with KDE and Gnome is, they improved them both to death. If you are not running top of the line hardware, forget it. As for XFCE and others, you clearly do not know what you are talking about. I switched to XFCE a few years back (from KDE). It does what I want, looks great, never gives any grief. And this is in a development environment, mind you. You may want to try a Linux distro that is not 10 years old next time.

Re:NT is best

[DogDude]

I don't know anybody who pays his/her bills "writing and posting stories". I pay my bills by working in retail, and there are no real Linux options for decent point of sale systems. So yes, for "real work", I rely on Windows.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

"If constant reboots and BSODs are still your impression of Windows"

Just last week a friend of mine ordered the stock DVDs from HP for his HP 4330s and reinstalled, allowing the install disk to completely reformat and repartition the hard disk. After hours of updates and numerous reboots the system refused to boot and offered to re-install. This was without adding any applications at all, or configuring anything or adding any drivers, etc.

" Things are quite smooth these days, thanks to the NT6 kernel."

Even if the NT6 kernel was rock solid, updates are still a crapshoot at best. I'm afraid your belief can only be affirmed with a severe reality distortion field.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

Great. Now how do you get it to update without rebooting, which was the actual point you are attempting to draw attention away from.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

I use windows (7) daily at work and at home, but I also have linux on some machines. For all the buggyness (which, frankly, you can get around by using something mature and stable like debian - if you can live with not having the newest hotness), Linux gives you options, Windows does not. Windows works, but it works in one way only and you cannot change the way it does things. Every day I wish I could use Linux at work because there is always that little annoying thing you could fix or do in linux and is a pain or impossible on win.
Then there is also the benefit of your local machine speak the same "language" as your servers (except if you are using win servers, which you shouldn't). Having a command line that actually works and is not unnecessarily reinventing the wheel is a godsend when you are administrating stuff or developing software. Nowadays I do most of the stuff on win inside cygwin.

Sure, Windows might work better for the average user who has no clue, but that's not really an argument. Just because notepad or another basic gui editor works better for them, emacs or vim are still superior editors.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

"As indicated in another reply, this is a DFO error. Dumb Fucking Operator."

It has already been pointed out that he was using Windows :-)

Seriously, you blame the operator when Windows insists on rebooting to complete an application install, requires a reboot for updates that then subsequently cause the system to fail to boot, and makes you wait at the coffee shop for an extra ten minutes after you decide to leave because you can't power down the system, plus an additional five at start time when you start Windows again? Try to be serious.

Re:NT is best

[Kalium70]

What, has the BSOD been changed to a different color?

Re:NT is best

[Blaskowicz]

But installing the updates is critical for computer security. I would feel at risk of getting some random malware if a Windows computer fell even days or weeks out of date on the updates.

Re:NT is best

[satch89450]

I'm sorry to say that, for some companies, there is a value to having a Windows system available. I do part-time IT work for a translation agency, and the vast majority of source documents come in as Microsoft files: Word, PowerPoint, and the odd Excel spreadsheet. I have to keep a Windows 7 computer around to take some of those incoming source documents and "downgrade" the file, cleaning them up of any macro viruses and other similar junk at the same time, so the translators' computers won't be at risk and we don't have to dilute capital by constant upgrading.

These translators do their work with various Translation tools that work only with Microsoft Word, and limited to specific versions of Word. Those XP computers are *not* connected to the Internet -- the translators have separate machines for research, e-mail, and similar -- and those second machines are Macs, not Winboxes. During the next six months, they will be moving to Linux platforms for the second boxes because of the issues Apple has caused with their latest OS upgrades. Churn, churn, churn...

Why not work with LibreOffice? The customer companies are using Microsoft Word, and want their documents to have a specific look and feel as Microsoft Words renders it. "This document doesn't look quite right" when it's created and saved in Libre Office. Running text isn't the problem, it's the graphics in the document: the pictures, graphs, and drawings are out of place. "The customer is always right." But we don't have to upgrade Office everytime Microsoft feels the itch for more money.

As an aside, some of these translator's tools are moving to LibreOffice supporting a handful of Linux distributions. (OpenOffice is...right out. Too much "Oracle effect", although we'll see what the move to Apache Foundation does.) The software is *not* free, nor is it cheap...but a translator's output increases to the point that the software pays for itself in less than a month.

Re:NT is best

[ruir]

Arent they? I have seen PLENTY of restaurants with the POS running in Linux, and last time I was at the supermarket and they had a power failure in the line I was waiting, the POS rebooted showing a localized version of CentOS or RedHat... I also have seen some chinese stores with pos running some form of Linux too. On another note I have seen upper market restaurants using ipads to take the orders... Wake up and smell the coffee the days of only Windows POS systems, and dedicated portable devices are over.

Re:NT is best

[Ol Olsoc]

" You may want to try a Linux distro that is not 10 years old next time.

What fun would that be? Kinda wipes out his argument. Remember we are dealing with people who think Mac's still use one button meeces.

As for appearance, and setup, it is hard to imagine a Windows user not being able to figure out how to get around easily in Mint Cinnamon, and there are so many different distros, it's hard to imagine any Windows only user being able to declare them alll as ugly.

Buggy? I have no idea what he's talking about, except in a open source environment, we do stand a chance of getting incompletel or not ready for prime time software on occasion. That is a very acceptable tradeoff for not having to use Windows.

Re:NT is best

[pr0fessor]

You are correct that SaaS has made so much more commercial software available. {but not all commercial software there are still niches where a solution a business is heavily invested in just doesn't have a linux option}

Then there is still the problem that most users still have windows and as a business retraining is not something anyone wants to pay for so who ever has the market share will get used in business. {I think android is making sure that users are turning away from not just windows but also the desktop PC}

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

That is not possible, but I think that a quick reboot once a month isn't too much to ask.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact you still use it just proves you're drooling out of both sides of your mouth.

FTFY.

Re:NT is best

[Ol Olsoc]

If constant reboots and BSODs are still your impression of Windows, you should give it another try with a more recent version. Things are quite smooth these days, thanks to the NT6 kernel.

Haven't been paying attention lately have ya?

Last Black Tuesday fucked up a lot of users of New modern great Windows systems

And recently there have been a lot of Windows 7 users who after an update, Microsoft wouldn't accept their genuine legal copies of W7 and wouldn't allow them to use their computers.

Or do you mean some mythical New Version of Windows that won't have any problems at all.

Re:NT is best

[Will.Woodhull]

And yet involving yourself or your company in the Microsoft ecosystem continues to be a waste of your resources.

For all core business functions, the Linux ecosystem, despite its pimples and occasionally awkward behavior, now offers the better current and future value. And it is rapidly completing its maturation and as it does so its complexion is clearing up and it is continuing to replace its remaining adolescent behaviors with more sophisticated ways of getting along in adult society.

Microsoft's best long term strategy is to convert its software to open source and merge it into the Linux ecosystem while developing support services as its primary source of revenue. That has worked for IBM; it could work as well for Microsoft. But it means that Microsoft needs to embrace FOSS and begin extinguishing its own proprietary software while learning to dance to the music the rest of the world is tuned in on (rather than dancing to whatever it is that is that it has been playing on its own private ear buds).

Flamebait? Or an insightful summation of the situation? You decide. Since even the author of this post doesn't know which he has done.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, you blame the operator when Windows insists on rebooting to complete an application install, requires a reboot for updates that then subsequently cause the system to fail to boot, and makes you wait at the coffee shop for an extra ten minutes after you decide to leave because you can't power down the system, plus an additional five at start time when you start Windows again? Try to be serious.

.. and it gets worse! i only boot windows once every two or three weeks because I only use the system to play some games. you cannot imagine how much pain in the ass it is to actually play the damn game, having to wait for 3, 4 and sometimes even 5 reboots in a row to install the damn updates. i already have limited time to play the game but windows makes it damn fucking impossible! and no, do not tell me to disable the updates.

Re:NT is best

[pr0fessor]

Yes there was and as I read about it I thought "Oh crap, We have 40k systems that might be effected." but not one had a bsod so I was very relieved {because I have had an update go horribly wrong before I think it was around 2007 .Net 3.0 even though it only effected a small percentage of system it was still bad}.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Duhh! The point was only to disable automatic updates so that they don't bother you during inconvenient times. You still install the updates with a click of button after you are done with gaming. :)

Re:NT is best

[DougReed]

None of this matters to me. Windows is fundamentally broken on so many levels. They used the universal escape character for the path separator. You cannot assess an open file, even to read it, so you have to shut things down to do ANYTHING. The logs can only be accessed using an API, and unless you register all kinds of crazy garbage, the EventLog has a bunch of empty columns. Creating a Service is the most complicated process imaginable three layers deep.
Even the Help system has been rewritten so may times, it never works right. The shell is broken and stupid unless you use the PowerShell... and again. It's 10 pounds of technology for a 1 pound problem. PowerShell is a complete pain to deal with. The Registry is a mess. All kinds of system files are just dumped into system32.

Almost everything In Windows is a mess. I don't want anything to do with it.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

I switched to XFCE a few years back (from KDE). It does what I want, looks great, never gives any grief. And this is in a development environment, mind you. You may want to try a Linux distro that is not 10 years old next time.

Well, XFCE is also 2 years old. Yes, that is how much time has passed since the last official XFCE release (version 4.10). Sure, the trunk is updated regularly, but the project could use more developers. Additionally, it ships with a compositor that tears (because it uses XRender) and there are no desktop effects. I expect more from a modern DE.

Re:NT is best

[MightyMartian]

You mean like my mousepad becoming non-functional when I bring my Windows 8.1 notebook up from sleep?

Re:NT is best

[MickyTheIdiot]

Yeah.. great, but Word renders documents differently computer to computer.

The use of .doc or .docx for that purpose shows a lack of understanding of how the file file formats work or what purpose. The proper file format for that purpose is usually PDF.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

You linked to the same incident reported by three different websites. And the update in question, while undeniably broken, only impacted a small fraction of users.

One bad update does not equal "constant BSODs". Do you want to bet that has never shipped a broken update?

Re:NT is best

[benjymouse]

I still regularly get "need to upgrade reboots" on my Windows machine. It's atleast once a month and always seems to pop up when I'm playing a game of LoL or CS:Go.

Yes, I use my Windows as a Wintendo. Got a problem with that?

And I suppose that Linux is better?

Just this past month I can count several Linux vulnerabilities, the patch for which requires a reboot:

http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-...

After a standard system update you need to reboot your computer to make
all the necessary changes.

The same goes for all of these:
http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-..., http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-..., http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-..., http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-..., http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-...

For this one you have to restart your Unity session:
http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-...

The security notices also includes a number of patches to library files. Under Linux you can replace (patch) a file even if it is loaded in a current process. However, the patches file will not take effect until said process has been restarted.

As far as I know, under Linux there is no automated process for this. Linux will not be able to patch an open LibreOffice Writer application if one of the libraries it uses are being patched. Writer will happily continue running unpatched.

Worse, you will not get a warning, and the running processes may have already loaded some libraries before the patch, and load a version of a library that is incompatible with the running process *after* the patch, simply because the OS/processes are not aware of patches. This leads to application crashes. I regularly experience crashes when I use LO on Ubuntu. Granted, I have Ubuntu installed as a VM and use it rarely, but that also means that there's typically *a lot* of patches waiting for me when I spin up the VM. Linux seems to handle patching libraries poorly and I am not aware of any system mechanism that tries to mitigate this problem.

Under Windows you have the Restart Manager. When a process load a DLL, it also locks the DLL file because it may just discard the memory where it is loaded, expecting to be able to load the exact same image later. Applications (such as Office) registers with the Restart Manager. If the Windows Updater needs to replace a locked DLL file, it looks to see if the processes that locks the DLL are all registered with the RM. If so, it can ask the registered application for their "state", restart the processes and inject the state into the processes when they come back up and registers with the RM. The RM also watches the locked files, and if the last lock that prevents a patch set (multiple files that should be replaced as part of an atomic transaction) is being released, the RM can kick of the file replace operation. This latter part is the reason why sometimes the "need to restart the system" badge disappears without a system restart.

The bottom line: Linux needs restarts/reboots just as Windows does. Sometimes you are deceived to believe that it has fewer restarts because Linux cannot by itself figure out that you *do* need to restart a process or the system. But that's actually worse because it leads to crashes.

Re:NT is best

[Troy Baer]

That is not possible, but I think that a quick reboot once a month isn't too much to ask.

Well, that makes one of us.

Re:NT is best

[whoever57]

Yes there was and as I read about it I thought "Oh crap, We have 40k systems that might be effected." but not one had a bsod so I was very relieved

And in my small office, we had one machine that was affected. So what's your point? Clearly MS screwed up with bad updates. You were just lucky, probably because you buy from a single supplier, whose machines were not affected.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

Yes. That's the whole point isn't it. With Windows it isn't possibly, but the rest of the world doesn't have a problem pulling it off.

Re:NT is best

[Anon-Admin]

Wow, Ubuntu is behind the times.

Fedora can patch and dynamically replace the running kernel without a reboot.

Ubuntu is just one distro of linux, if it is not doing what you want then try the others.

Re:NT is best

[jittles]

If constant reboots and BSODs are still your impression of Windows, you should give it another try with a more recent version. Things are quite smooth these days, thanks to the NT6 kernel.

Err! Win NT6.0 was Microsoft Windows Vista and we know how everyone loved that. Even with NT6.1 (Microsoft Windows 7) you still could get constant reboots and BSODs (first hand experience). Still NT6.2 (MS Win 8) and NT3 (MS Win 8.1) may me stable to you but that GUI IMHO looks like something designed by a 5 year old.

Over 7 years ago I switched to a Linux distro and have never looked back.

I get more BSODs and reboots with my iPhone 5S (and kernel panics) with Apple products than I do with my two windows Machines. My iPhone 5S reboots itself about 3 times a day (blue screen and all, yes its true, you can youtube to see for yourself). I get a kernel panic on my work MacBook pro about twice a week, and have to reboot my personal MacBook pro about once every week or two. Meanwhile my two Windows 7 machines get rebooted at most once a month when patch Tuesday rolls around. So I guess it just all depends on your hardware and what you happen to be doing with those machines.

Re:NT is best

[captaintightpants]

For this one you have to restart your Unity session

restart your Unity session

Unity session

Well there's their problem. They are using Unity.

Re:NT is best

[captaintightpants]

This is why I use LaTeX. Total control over every part of the document.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you can control group policy in a corporate environment? Wow..some people are dense.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

You realize that there is an entire industry dedicated to fixing Windows errors right? It's an actual job.

Re:NT is best

[kilodelta]

Sorry - I cannot tolerate the piece of flaming excrement that is Windows 8. I just went with Ubuntu 14.01 LTS - works well enough for my needs, has all the tools and toys that Windows has and isn't that hard to learn.

Re:NT is best

[kilodelta]

The only time you have to restart Linux is if you change Kernel or Kernel header files. Otherwise just upgrade and walk away without having to reboot.

Re: NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

For office Desktops not too much to ask for one reboot a month. Typically, they spend 2/3 RDS of time idling anyway. Servers on the gripping hand...

Re:NT is best

[wertigon]

All software has holes, but atleast Linux lets me upgrade my machine when I want it to, not force me when I'm right in the middle of something.

I still get those from Windows on a regular basis. It still annoys me. And if you say "Oh but that's so easy to fix, just do xyz" - well, it's dead-easy to fix a lot of things with Linux commandline too. And just as much a valid solution to a given problem. So there. Neither OS is better than the other, but some have more strengths than others.

Re:NT is best

[kilodelta]

The way to tame Gnome at least in Ubuntu is to switch back to the 2d version,. The 3d version does have some annoy-o-bugs. And uninstall that piece of crap music player Rhythmbox. I went with Audacious instead.

Re: NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding, one of the main reasons the whole SCO legal issues came about was every one was switching their POS systems to Linux.

Re:NT is best

[Dragonslicer]

My Linux desktop at home shows a message that I should restart the computer every time there's a kernel update. Off the top of my head, it seems like kernel updates come a few times per month. Of course, I let the message sit there for weeks, and my desktop happily keeps running. I don't know how well Windows works these days if you don't reboot when it tells you to.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

It does, but it requires steps that are only slightly less arcane than editing the {124125-ABCDE-152512912-WTFBBQ} key in your registry.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

The typical "well, you haven't used Linux lately" response. I assume someone's trademarked that one. Actually, I've tried the distro that's "all the rage" once a year, every year, starting with Mandrake somewhere around 1998-99. This year I tried Linux Mint... which indefinitely sat on a black screen after booting... and that's all it did. Yes, I verified the CD image against the MD5 checksum, so it wasn't the media. Nothing has made me appreciate Windows more than having seen Linux in action. It's just hideous. Like a bad prototype stuck 10 years in the past. But, that's to be expected. It's put together by volunteers.

My android phone is a different story, but then Google went to great lengths to actually put together something that wasn't shit. Did they use the Linux kernel because it's the most sophisticated and advanced piece of software on the planet? NOPE! Wrong. They used it because it works good enough and it's free.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

"My Linux desktop at home shows a message that I should restart the computer every time there's a kernel update"

Yes, but how many times does it suggest that you reboot for application and/or major library installations? With the exception of glibc, never. Even then it is a suggestion, and as you point out you can choose to ignore it.

Now, how many times have you waited a month before applying updates, applied them, been forced to reboot only to find that there are now more updates and you have to reboot again? How many times have you tried to shutdown and the system treated it as a suggestion?

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, I know a lot more than you realize. KDE and Gnome, even on a fast machine, still look ugly. KDE's selectors, buttons, and icons all look like they were laid out by Lotney "Sloth" Fratelli from the Goonies movie. Gnome, pre-Unity, was just a poor Windows 98 clone, while post-Unity is just brain cancer. XFCE indeed looks great, if I were using a computer 15 years ago. I design clothing and educational material, so I know a little bit about style. GNU/Linux is designed by people with an impaired sense of style, ascetics, and design. Ugly from top to bottom. I try a Linux distro once a year just to see how far you've gotten. As usual, lots of talk, but the results aren't up to snuff.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, look! Another mistaken soul who automatically assumes those who think Linux is shit simply MUST BE USING AN OLD VERSION. Where have you been? Tech sites are always buzzing about a new distro that's better than ever and looks really good this time. How could any computer hobbyist not try the latest fad? This year's Linux Mint sat on a black screen (yes, the media was verified, the ISO and the disc were not corrupt). In 2013 I tried openSUSE. Love that little green lizard... now if they could just get decent looking fonts....

GNU/Linux desktop environments are constantly in a state of incompleteness and you just acknowledged my previous point. You put up with that garbage. Why? Maybe you hate Windows. Maybe you hate evil proprietary software as Stallman (PBUH) tells you to. Maybe you just think Linux looks and feels great. Maybe you STILL enjoy wearing bellbottom jeans and sweaters from grandma. It's quite possible that your sense of style is way off base, yet your only retort is, "well.... you just haven't seen the latest stuff I like!" Got anything else?

Re:NT is best

[redmid17]

Are you gaming on your office computer?

Re:NT is best

[redmid17]

So don't let it automatically update.....

Re:NT is best

[redmid17]

So does Windows. You just have disable automatic updates. You can actually do that at installation time.

Re:NT is best

[pr0fessor]

We have about a dozen different models and yes even if only one model had been effected it would have been a bad time. The point is that although it happened it's isolated. I have had it happen on linux before too and it was some off the wall hardware specific issues so very few were actually effected. {I eventually swapped hardware to something a little more mainstream because it was a reoccurring theme}

Re:NT is best

[Ol Olsoc]

Gee, look! Another mistaken soul who automatically assumes those who think Linux is shit simply MUST BE USING AN OLD VERSION. Where have you been?

Happily using Linux and OSX. Happily not using whatever Microsoft puts out any more

And especially not give a flying fuck what some person uses. And I've done enough installs of enough distros (Oh, I'll bet just seeing that word gets you pissed) to know just what they look like. And they work. Just fine.

And nothing like pissing off asshats. Nothing like retorting to people who either don't know what they are doing, or lying about anything but whatever Microsoft is offering. Or OSX - You know I had a conversation here about someone who was bitching about one button Mac Mice - still thought they were using them. Sorry Coward, but there is a lot of misinformation put out by people who have absolutely no idea. And responding is somehow a bad thing? If you are having troubles with Linux, well then perhaps it isn't the Linux OS, perhaps it isn't the Distro, perhaps it's you.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

having to wait for 3, 4 and sometimes even 5 reboots in a row to install the damn updates.

You must be exaggerating a bit there. Even 2-reboot upgrades -- while possible -- are very rare.

Re:NT is best

[Dutch Gun]

Why? What compelling features does Windows offer that I don't already have? I want to know about Window's value proposition.

The value of Windows isn't really Windows the OS, but the Windows ecosystem. Essentially, the vast majority of the world's desktop software runs on Windows. There are a lot of fine Linux applications out there, but don't kid yourself into thinking there are replacements for everything people want or need by any stretch of the imagination. Some of it can run under WINE, but that's not always a practical or convenient solution.

If you have all the software you want on Linux and are happy with the OS itself, then there's zero reason to switch. I say use the best tool for the job. For me, it happens to be Windows, because I'm comfortable with it and the software I want to use is available for it. For you, it's Linux.

Re:NT is best

[Dutch Gun]

The use of .doc or .docx for that purpose shows a lack of understanding of how the file file formats work or what purpose. The proper file format for that purpose is usually PDF.

Good luck telling your customers that they're sending you the wrong type of documents. I'm sure your competitors will be more than happy to accept documents in any type of format.

Re:NT is best

[benjymouse]

Wow, Ubuntu is behind the times.

Fedora can patch and dynamically replace the running kernel without a reboot.

BS. Fedora uses RPM, which is even worse at ensuring that patches become effective.

You are deluding yourself and confusing the fact that you are not instructed to reboot with reboot is not needed. Your complacency means that you processes lingers on in their vulnerable state. Fedora does not use ksplice (Oracle owns that now) and ksplice does depend on the patches being specifically prepared, anyway.

Not all patches require system reboot (same as on Windows). But patches that affect e.g. running network daemons do require a restart to become effective. I hope you are not responsible for administering production systems!

Ubuntu is just one distro of linux, if it is not doing what you want then try the others.

Oh - the universal answer: You are using the wrong distro. Love it. Deflect, avoid, goalposts shifting.

However, in this case (talking about Munich, remember?) they were using Ubuntu as base for Limux.

Re:NT is best

[benjymouse]

Haven't been paying attention lately have ya?

Last Black Tuesday fucked up a lot of users of New modern great Windows systems

Less than 0.01% of Windows users. That may be "a lot of users" in absolute terms - but it is certainly not the big failure you (and Infoworld - the tabloid of tech) make it out to be.

Did MS do a proper jon when testing the updates? no. Did they fail massively? no.

Re:NT is best

[evilviper]

The only time you have to restart Linux is if you change Kernel or Kernel header files. Otherwise just upgrade and walk away without having to reboot.

Does apt-get (or yum) automatically restart every service and program that uses a library that it has updated?

No? Then you can't just 'walk away' if you care about security in the slightest. Your running Apache will continue using the buggy old OpenSSL version until you restart the service. You *could* take your system down to single-user "emergency" mode, then back up... That's technically not a reboot, but close enough that most people would call it that.

Re:NT is best

[whoever57]

The point is that although it happened it's isolated

My point is that your experience is meaningless in the context of how many machines are affected. Yes, it may be a small percentage of machines that are affected, but how small? 1%? .1%, .01%? I have not seen any figures published on this.

PS. Please, please, look up the definitions of "to affect" and "to effect". Make sure you are looking at definitions of the verbs, not nouns.

Re:NT is best

[tinkerghost]

3 times this year MS has bricked my system with updates. I run a stock install from HP - the only software on the PC is Firefox, LO, Steam, and ARC. All 3 times it's corrupted my system hive. The first time I ended up re-installing, the last 2 times I've just replaced the hive.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, the AC OP was an obvious troll, but...

They used the universal escape character for the path separator.

Windows of today remains largely compatible with conventions of MS-DOS, including the backslash as a path separator. However, the API has been able to handle the use of forward-slash as a path separator for a long time now. So, your problem is either mostly with outdated third-party applications, or continued impotent whining about something that has been around since MS-DOS 1.0. Get over it already.

You cannot assess [sic] an open file, even to read it, so you have to shut things down to do ANYTHING.

That's completely false. Your problem is with applications that either fail to open the file with a minimum of read/write restrictions, or fail to close a Windows Explorer object when they should. Even classic VB6 (and VB5, too) allowed one to write applications that could open a file with shared read access - no special finagling or libraries needed, it was built right in to the language.

If the problems are happening with Windows Explorer itself (usually for folders rather than files), you should configure the option to have each Explorer instance run as a separate process. IMHO, that should be the default setting, but MS doesn't listen to my gripes. That way you can close the offending Explorer process without having to go to more extensive measures. There are free tools to find out what process is locking a file, some with source code provided, so finding the specific Explorer process is also easy.

The logs can only be accessed using an API...

While I agree this is less convenient than simple text files, there are trade-offs such as easy filtering and monitoring of events due to having a standardized format. Further, the API is trivially easy to use if all you want to do is dump the the events as text for some reason; IMHO, the built-in viewer is sufficient for most needs. If you can't be bothered to write a trivial log dumper in C (or PowerShell, or VBScript, or C#, or $LANGUAGE), examples are all over the internet. Even if Java is your preferred kink, I'm willing to bet (without searching) that several FLOSS libraries good enough for that task have already been written and published.

...and unless you register all kinds of crazy garbage, the EventLog has a bunch of empty columns.

At a minimum, to use either the default application event log or (for a service or similar OS-bound application) system event log, you have to configure two fairly straightforward registry keys having simple value entries (actually, you can get by with just one if the MC file is simple; you can skip the key for categories). IMHO, "two" does not equate to "all kinds". The entries tell the OS where to find the binary (EXE or DLL) containing the (optionally localized) event strings. It's only "crazy" if you're a confirmed registry-hater. You can still do it that simply on current OS versions. However, there is now support for application-specific event logs and other enhancements. Of course, those features come with added complexity, but they're not mandatory.

Creating a Service is the most complicated process imaginable three layers deep.

You have to follow some clearly documented rules, and some recommendations on older OS versions (e.g. no IPC with desktop processes via shell message passing) are now enforced on current OS versions. Other than that, there's nothing complicated about it, though debugging a service is initially counter-intuitive. With a quick search, I found a minimal C example, but if you want to see a full example, the MSDN has something only a little more complex, but it illustrates everything needed in a producti

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Now do you see why Linux desktop is so underused? When you're trying so hard to make a fuss over something so trivial you really need to ask yourself what you really feel is so advantageous about it. Yes my Windows PC and my Mac popup a notification that I should reboot because there are updates and when it's convenient I'll do it, my Linux PC does the same thing for kernel updates, it takes a couple minutes at most so I'll go make a cup of coffee. The fact that my Linux PC doesn't need to be rebooted when glibc is updated is hardly the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If you're the sort of person who is glued to their PC and cannot stand to be away from it or to have it non-operational for more than a few seconds then yes, the Linux desktop is for you if only for this feature. For everybody else it's just not that big a deal.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, you blame the operator when Windows insists on rebooting to complete an application install

It isnt a requirement, it is a suggestion that you can choose to ignore and you already deemed ignorable suggestions acceptable for linux, your bias is showing:
it is a suggestion, and as you point out you can choose to ignore it.

makes you wait at the coffee shop for an extra ten minutes after you decide to leave because you can't power down the system

oh you linux users crack me up, on windows and mac we've had proper ACPI support across the board for years such that we dont have to power down the system when leaving places.

Re:NT is best

[exomondo]

Even with NT6.1 (Microsoft Windows 7) you still could get constant reboots and BSODs (first hand experience).

Really? What were they caused by? Surely if they truly were constant you would investigate. BSODs are almost exclusively triggered by problem drivers (and often an issue with the underlying hardware) much like kernel panics on unix-like systems. The most common offender on Windows is graphics drivers (it's easy to identify with the information on the screen) and the most common on Linux that I have found is power management drivers taking down the system. If you are using faulty drivers or hardware you are going to have problems no matter what OS you use.

Re:NT is best

[exomondo]

Yeah.. great, but Word renders documents differently computer to computer.

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? I can see the potential for issues with rendering documents from different versions (though I can't imagine there would be much that is particularly show-stopping) but different rendering on different computers doesn't sound right.

Re:NT is best

[fisted]

...which is precisely what happens with Microsoft's retarded patch-whateverday approach to make the amount of fixes appear smaller.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

The exact same thing happens with Linux too, what is with this ridiculous perception from some idiots that Linux is completely perfect and that problems only arise on Windows?

I did a software upgrade on Linux MINT (11 or 12, can't remember) and it ended up crapping all over the bootloader and rendered it unresponsive. I then had to get another computer to create a live cd to boot into that, mount the volumes and then install a boot-repair utility. I have also done a software upgrade on Windows 8 that caused a BSOD because the update installed corrupt chipset drivers so I had to boot into safe mode and replace the driver.

All operating systems have issues, abandoning Windows for Linux will get rid of your Windows problems but you will inherit a swath of Linux problems, just as you will going the other way or switching to OSX.

Re:NT is best

[exomondo]

You mean like my mousepad becoming non-functional when I bring my Windows 8.1 notebook up from sleep?

Sounds like an issue with the ACPI implementation in the driver, if that's the case the operating system can't really do much about it. Try installing the latest driver from the manufacturer. I know it's tempting to blame the operating system for every error but in most cases the problem isn't the operating system at all, for example the catastrophic Blue Screen of Death is almost always a driver/hardware problem.

Re:NT is best

[satch89450]

>The proper file format for that purpose is usually PDF.

I know that. But the customers want editable copies, and do not want to go through Adobe or anyone else for a PDF editor. The customers want Word files. Now, tell me how to educate the customers, when the competition will do exactly what they want and so my client loses business to that competition, and your comment will be reasonable.

Absent that critical step, my hands are tied. And so are my client's hands tied.

Re:NT is best

[benjymouse]

3 times this year MS has bricked my system with updates. I run a stock install from HP - the only software on the PC is Firefox, LO, Steam, and ARC. All 3 times it's corrupted my system hive. The first time I ended up re-installing, the last 2 times I've just replaced the hive.

There has not been a single update that corrupted the system hive. Never. Ever.

The system hive integrity is backed by multiple mechanisms. Firstly, Windows keeps 2 copies. Secondly, updates to the hive is protected by NTFS journaling. Thirdly, system hives are protected by system protection (on by default) which keeps previous versions using shadow copy service.

If your system hive has been corrupted you have serious hardware issues.

Re:NT is best

[strikethree]

Yes, but how many times does it suggest that you reboot for application and/or major library installations? With the exception of glibc, never.

You words reminded me of one of my early Linux experiences. I needed to upgrade glibc so I deleted it and... well, I was intending to copy the new file over but all of the commands were dynamically linked so no commands worked.

Utter terror! Everything I tried would not work... all commands errored out. What to do? What to do?

So I had Netscape Navigator (3 I think) open. It was statically linked. So I opened the new glibc with it and then "saved" it in /lib.

Commands started working again *sigh*. Disaster averted. I rebooted to ensure that all references in RAM to glibc would be correct.

Yeah, I had no "rescue disks". I barely even knew what a disk partition was at that time. I was just glad that I was able to avert disaster creatively with what I had available. :)

Sorry, this was not germane but your mention of glibc reminded me of it. Heh.

Hrm. I may as well say it, systemd is evil.

Oh, I always statically link basic utils such as cp to avoid any such problems in the future. The amount of extra diskspace used is utterly negligible in today's systems.

Re:NT is best

[ThePhilips]

On Debian based systems this was never a problem.

Debian IIRC would ask you ~3 times (displaying big scary warnings that you better know what you are doing and Debian isn't responsible for the consequences of your actions) before it would let you uninstall a core OS package like glibc or text-tools or perl.

That is also reason why Debian rebuilds the initrd so often, seemingly redundantly, during the update. To make sure that even if system went down during the update, and there are updated kernel modules, chances are great that your system would remain in a bootable state.

The traditional problems of the RedHat systems where RPM lets you screw your system (or screws it on its own automatically; or refuses to do a trivial thing, you force it and it conveniently screws it for you) at least to me are long over.

Re:NT is best

[ThePhilips]

Not so rare if (A) you have full assortment of the .Net run-times installed and (B) skip some monthly update.

At the worst, on my Win7 I had about 5 .Net run-times installed. It happened more than once that after one dot-point update, there was another dot-point update immediately available.

(Plus, there were two "uninstallable" .net updates: they would silently fail to install and after reboot you would be asked to update again to the same version. I see that shit because I have auto-updates disabled. But for normal people with auto-updates on, that would be a prompt to reboot ~30 min after previous reboot.)

The only solution is to uninstall the application which requires the uncommon .net version and uninstall the redundant .net run-times.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

It would seem so.

I can see the potential for issues with rendering documents from different versions (though I can't imagine there would be much that is particularly show-stopping) but different rendering on different computers doesn't sound right.

I know. But in reality it is so on more computers/installations than it reasonably should.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

"The exact same thing happens with Linux too"

Even if this is true, it isn't even remotely close to the "exact same thing".

"I did a software upgrade on Linux MINT (11 or 12, can't remember) and it ended up crapping all over the bootloader and rendered it unresponsive."

This is, indeed, a case of the person having no idea what he is doing, as evidenced by the fact that you don't know the difference between an OS upgrade and applying updates.

Re:NT is best

[Zero__Kelvin]

Try that fix on a Windows system! :-)

Re:NT is best

[david_thornley]

It's not that I'm glued to the computer, it's that the apps currently open and such represent a certain amount of configuration that I don't want to do again. If I could reboot and have everything come up just as it was, that'd be fine.

Re:NT is best

[david_thornley]

Have you asked anybody about your iPhone problem? Mine just runs and runs and runs (provided I keep the battery charged). Did you do anything unusual with it?

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you know why Windows needs so much fixing? It's because idiot users running with administrator rights willingly install poorly written malware.

Run a Windows machine with the same level of knowledge and precaution as you do a Linux machine and it's rock solid. Run a Linux machine with reckless abandon and it's as unstable as you imagine Windows is.

Re: NT is best

[ruir]

I once saw an SCO V server controlling a nationwide network of ATMs machines...I have never seen anyone as a POS, that was not my line of work anyway.

Re:NT is best

[jittles]

Have you asked anybody about your iPhone problem? Mine just runs and runs and runs (provided I keep the battery charged). Did you do anything unusual with it?

Haven't bothered. It's a somewhat common problem. I know about a half a dozen people that have rebooting iPhones. In fact, when I was at WWDC I had to manually reboot my iPhone throughout the day because it would stop working all together. It had never done that prior and has never done that since. I am assuming it was just overwhelmed by the reality distortion field at the event. No one else I know was having that problem. I'll probably just wait until the warranty is running out and just take it into the Apple store and complain.

Re:NT is best

[wertigon]

You are missing the point.

Linux has automatic updates, and a friendly icon pops up saying "We installed stuff on your computer, you should reboot at your convenience."

Windows, on the other hand, installs those updates and then tells me "you have five minutes to quit whatever it is that you are doing before we reboot your computer."

Whoever decided that was a good idea should be shot.

Re:NT is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever decided that was a good idea should be shot.

You can shoot yourself for changing the default setting.

By default, Windows does not require you to reboot after any update. You can change the default behavior through group policy.

Re:NT is best

[strikethree]

Heh. Indeed. It is literally one of the reasons I became a diehard Linux fan. I could never have recovered like that in Windows.

Re:NT is best

[strikethree]

I think you are not realizing exactly how long ago this was. Debian existed, yes. Debian had no safety rails at the time. No distributions did. This was when Slackware was still below version 2. I was upgrading (manually) to version 2.3 iirc. RPM for Redhat was still in its infancy as well.

Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenOffice.org, which may well be resolved by switching to LibreOffice

I had more compatibility problems with LibreOffice than with OpenOffice.org. But that was 3.x version. I don't know if 4.x is any better.

Re:Oh really?

[Vlad_the_Inhaler]

I'd be amazed if it was.
My experience is that OpenOffice has less features but they work better. They (OO) also seem to be to be more interested in MS compatibility than LO is. I find that particular fork rather regrettable but Oracle would never have divested themselves of OpenOffice if they had not seen themselves becoming irrelevant.

Re:Oh really?

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you say that - (A)OO after all this time doesn't support saving (exporting) to OOXML, LO does since its beginning and developers are constantly working to improve roundtrip compatibility.

Many other municipalities switched to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

...don't know why media keep talking only about Munich. It's not the only city that switched to Linux, several others have. The Italian city of Udine, for example:

http://www.lffl.org/2014/07/co...

Re:Many other municipalities switched to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

...and Turin:
http://www.tomshw.it/cont/news...

And many other smaller towns.

Re:Many other municipalities switched to Linux

[geogob]

...don't know why media keep talking only about Munich. It's not the only city that switched to Linux, several others have. The Italian city of Udine, for example:

http://www.lffl.org/2014/07/co...

One reason, size...

Munich : 1,4M
Udine : 0.1M
Turin : 0.9M

source: wikipedia (because only order of magnitude matter).

Furthermore, Munich is one of the most influential city in one of the most influential country of the European Union. From the size, Turin is not that far behind, but from the impact both cities cannot be compared. All this explains quite easily the media coverage.

But its quite interesting to see more cities considering this alternative. And with large cities like Turin and Munich doing it effectively, a lot of smaller cities and communes will start to consider open source as a serious alternative.

The open consideration of such an alternative has much more to do with psychology than with technical needs or limitations. Exactly why the media keep talking about Munich. Psychology. Marketing. And failing to understand this is a large part why open source alternative are still so far beyond what they could be.

Re:Many other municipalities switched to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

If munich were really so "influential", then several other cities of comparable size would have already switched to Linux. It hasn't happened, hence it's not.

Re:Many other municipalities switched to Linux

[Darinbob]

Another reason, Germany is seen as a technological/industrial leader. So to the people who know little about computing except what they see in an IT magazine, a German mark of approval is more important than an Italian thumbs up.

Re:Many other municipalities switched to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I would be terrified by a "German mark of approval" on an IT product:
http://www.zdnet.com/german-id...

Old news

[kevingolding2001]

SN already covered this four days ago.
https://soylentnews.org/articl...
I'm going to bed.

Re:Old news

[mwvdlee]

If a site post a story and there's nobody to read it, does it cover the news?

Re:Old news

[Anonymous Coward]

Even before heise, which is usually fastest on german news, impressed, impressed.

Re:Old news

[evilviper]

If a site post a story and there's nobody to read it, does it cover the news?

I'm sure there are people on Reddit (or Digg, or StumbleUpon) saying the same thing about stories posted to /.

Re:Old news

[mwvdlee]

Except on Reddit, Digg or StumbleUpon, they'd piss off more than just one person.

Re:Old news

[evilviper]

more than just one person

Hmm, this story only has 4.4X as many comments as the SoylentNews story.

I count 4,661 registered users on SoylentNews, and I'd bet nearly all are /. refugees, probably most are still visiting both sites, at least on occasion.

LibreOffice

[Anonymous Coward]

A work center redid my resume with a template they had, the document saved as a docx file.
When I went to make a change at home on Libre Office, some bullets in the original changed to a symbol that looks like a man's junk.
Any change to the document would change these bullets.

There are still small compatibility problems.

Re:LibreOffice

[Anonymous Coward]

One word: PDF

People sending resumes as editable document should not be hired in the first place.

Re: LibreOffice

[cbiltcliffe]

If you don't have all the same fonts installed, this can happen transferring between the same version and patxh level of Word, on two different computers.
Hardly a LibreOffice compatibility issue....

Re:LibreOffice

[RoLi]

Yes, there are still many small problems, but it really pays off filing a bugreport (with example file) - they have a much better management of bugs than most opensource projects and the chances are good that you will be able to get a fix in a few weeks. I have very good experience with that.

Re: LibreOffice

[Lonewolf666]

There are sometimes small changes in table layout too.

One case where I can confirm a small incompatibility with certainty are the backgrounds in table calls. Word offers some patterns there that are missing when loading the document in LibreOffice, for instance dotted backgrounds. This is not a conversion issue, it is simply a feature that LibreOffice does not have.

Things like that are the reason why using Word and LibreOffice in parallel tends to have some friction. So when switching to Linux, best switch everything if you can and mandate ODF as new document format.

Re:LibreOffice

[Alain Williams]

Any change to the document would change these bullets.

There are still small compatibility problems.

Yes: MS-Office/Word still has compatability problems with OpenOffice.

Why do people always complain that free s/ware is incompatible with proprietary ones ? OK: in this case he saved as a .docx - mistake, only use document formats that are properly defined, eg .odf - you will still find that MS Word will not import 100% -- in that case where is the problem: MS-Word or Open/Libre-Office ?

Re: LibreOffice

[gbjbaanb]

Hell, at the moment installing the Russian font (well, the rouble symbol) can bluescreen your computer! I'd rather send a word document with bullet points of my junk to employers, I can blame it on Word screwing the formatting and everyone will believe me (snigger)

Re: LibreOffice

[Barsteward]

i've had plenty of incompatibility between 2 version of Word in the past.

Re:LibreOffice

[mrchaotica]

The web-based submission form only accepts .doc or .docx. The real issue is that the braindead HR manager who made that decision should be fired.

Re:LibreOffice

[aaarrrgggh]

The GP is referring to the classic problem of collaborating with a single document. Party A provides base information, B edits information, A reviews changes and makes further updates. Collaborating with a PDF is called markup, and relies on a single party to be responsible for editing. Not sure if Google Docs does a good enough job on resumes yet to work.

Re:LibreOffice

[Ol Olsoc]

A work center redid my resume with a template they had, the document saved as a docx file. When I went to make a change at home on Libre Office, some bullets in the original changed to a symbol that looks like a man's junk. Any change to the document would change these bullets.

There are still small compatibility problems.

Take a powerpoint file with more than just basic text made in Windows Microsoft Office. Open the file in Microsoft Office for Mac.

Yup, Office is not compatible with itself. I've dealt with that for so long that I've come to the conclusion that a program that doesn't support itself should never be used as an example of compatibility with anything else.

P.S. - Make a pdf file. Making doc files for distribution, like resumes is considered gauche, like typing in all caps.

Re:LibreOffice

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you mean but in practice Microsoft Office is the de facto standard. Compatibility with that spec (no matter how badly defined proprietary evil standard it might be) is what people expect in the enterprise world.

Re:LibreOffice

[PincushionMan]

PDF can have the same problem if the font is not embedded and a suitable substitute is not available. An embedded font is the only way to be sure what you see is what they'll get. I remember loathing downloading PDF manuals in the dial up days because they would be huge (like 4 - 12 MB). Now that I think about it, those manuals often had non-SVG photos as well - those were probably the real culprits.

Re:LibreOffice

[ledow]

This.

Their idea of a changelog is:

Problem description.
Before Screenshot
After Screenshot
Example document that triggered bug.

Best fucking changelogs in the world, because they have one of the best bug-hunting projects in the world.

Just send them the file. See if the fix is in the Changelog for the next one/two small releases they do.

Re:LibreOffice

[Anonymous Coward]

...the braindead HR manager...

Is there any other kind?

Re:LibreOffice

[evilviper]

some bullets in the original changed to a symbol that looks like a man's junk.

Ah, good old Freudian-bullets... That's LibreOffice's killer feature over MS Word, you know?

Re:LibreOffice

[tinkerghost]

...the braindead HR manager...

Is there any other kind?

Actively malicious?

WTF is up with the title of this article...

[borgheron]

The English in the title is all wrong. It should read "Munich Council [says] talk of [Linux] demise is greatly exaggerated"... Editors? Are you there? Is Malda asleep at the wheel as usual?

Greg

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Anonymous Coward]

Try to keep up, Greg. The council is a plural body of individuals and can be replaced with the pronoun "they". Listen to the sentence with the pronoun: "They say talk of LiMux demise is greatly exaggerated." See? Proper english.

Additionally, they use a special distribution of Linux known as "LiMux", which is what's being discussed, not the demise of Linux in general. Thus that part of the title is correct too.

So actually nothing is wrong with the title in any way, but thanks for complaining.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Anonymous Coward]

The council is a plural body of individuals and can be replaced with the pronoun "it".

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[tomhath]

I suppose either is acceptable, but "it says talk" sounds awkward compared to "they say talk".

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/serbian/specials/1558_questions/page46.shtml says that unless you are trying to point out that the organism is made of a plurality, you should use a singular form.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, "the council" as a singular collective body of individuals could be replaced with the pronoun "it". Both pronouns are valid, but your choice of pronoun subtly changes the semantics of the sentence. In this case, "are" is better because it fits with the notion that the writer is expressing.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[jabberw0k]

It is a single council, speaking as a single entity. One council says; two councils say.

Re: WTF is up with the title of this article...

[cbiltcliffe]

Which is probably the case. 1 idiot mayor says Linux is gone. A whole bunch of council members say it's not.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. Nowhere in that page does it say anything of the sort, but it does say the contrary:

The thing to remember, is when we look at them as a collection of individuals, we would normally use a plural noun, and if we want to look at them as a unified institution we use the singular.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[StormReaver]

I don't know whether to think you're funny because of all your errors (each of your points is wrong), absurd because of all your errors (each of your points is wrong), or that you've just come out of cryostatis (Rob Malda hasn't been a part of Slashdot for a few years now).

Re: WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Barsteward]

I think it was the deputy mayor who lost the election to become mayor

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know whether to think you're funny because of all your errors (each of your points is wrong), absurd because of all your errors (each of your points is wrong)

answer to point 1) The headline should read either "Munich Council says... " or "Munich Councilors say..."

answer to point 2) The headline should read either "Munich Council says... " or "Munich Councilors say..."

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[whoever57]

It is a single council, speaking as a single entity. One council says; two councils say.

This is British English style. In British English, when referring to certain entities that are made up of many people (such as sports teams), the plural is often used. However, in the case of this story, I am not sure that this would apply to "Council" in this manner.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[gweihir]

You are a moron. LiMux is the "Linux Munich" distribution.

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[borgheron]

Gotcha. It just looked awkward on first glance. :)

Re:WTF is up with the title of this article...

[borgheron]

THANKS!!!! :)

You 7ail it

[Anonymous Coward]

by sImple fucking

Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this place? Berlin. Koeln. Frankfurt. Nuernberg. Stuggart. Augsburg. Bad Aibling. These places all use Windows. What is this Munich and what is LiMUx? And why shold slashdot concern itself with this Detroit-like town?

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this place? And why shold slashdot concern itself with this Detroit-like town?

Seriously? What is the "the third largest city in Germany"? What is "a city with 1.4 million people"? What is "the city with the biggest economy and lowest unemployment rate in Germany (among big cities)"?

Grow up and read a bit...

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[jfdavis668]

That's it, no BMW for you.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is, a sleepy place, mostly hidden away, from the rest of the world, though, maybe, in October, what, with all the drunks about, it may be in the news, but most of the year, it is asleep.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Munich is home of Microsoft's German HQ.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Saint Fnordius]

I don't suppose you ever heard the term "Laptops and Lederhosen", have you? Munich is where most of the German IT industry is, and population and job growth are still outstripping the real estate market. In that respect, it's the anti-Detroit with its abandoned neighbourhoods.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hitler was from there so that is enough.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Dachau you mean.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

No he wasn't you fuck, jesus /. is tanking completely.

Re:Munich - sort of like Detroit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that the Oktoberfest takes place in September owing to the Julian calendar not being replaced it is.

Big deal - SN "covered" it

[cold fjord]

It's a common courtesy to give the slow kids a head start.

Note to Slashdot editors

[Anonymous Coward]

If you look at the comments at the original article, you'd see people realised this pretty quickly. This is PRECISELY the reason people are flocking to Reddit. I wish the editors did some fucking work to read up on the background of each story.

Re:Note to Slashdot editors

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's flocking to reddit? I'm not going there. There just isn't enough time in the world to read it all.

Trying to walk in thick mud

[pigsycyberbully]

Blah blah blah and blah blah blah. Blah blah blah, blah blah blah so blah blah blah and blah blah blah. Blah blah blah always is and blah blah blah. They complain about it being too slow blah blah blah incompatible blah blah blah not fit for purpose blah blah blah Pac man like. Blah blah blah and blah blah blah like trying to walk in thick mud blah blah blah. And blah blah blah so blah blah blah it blah blah blah was blah blah blah. Typical blah blah blah slashdot users blah blah blah posting blah blah blah shit blah blah blah. Is about as interesting as blah blah blah watching paint dry blah blah. And blah blah blah. Fuck off blah blah blah bollocks blah blah blah.

Why wasn't it called Munix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Munix would have been way better.

Re:Why wasn't it called Munix?

[StormReaver]

Munix would have been way better.

It is too close to being (and probably is) a derivitive name of UNIX.

Re:Why wasn't it called Munix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Münix or Mynix then? :>

Re:Why wasn't it called Munix?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then it wouldn't necessarily be better than the word "LiMux" anymore.

Re:Why wasn't it called Munix?

[Mathinker]

They would have been sued for infringement by the rightsholders to Asterix.

I kid you not... this is actually why we now have linux-laptops.net rather than the original mobilix.org (or mobilix.net, I don't remember anymore)...

Switching to Libreoffice?

[Deathlizard]

I not sure how switching from Openoffice to Libreoffice is going to solve their problems. I know that Libreoffice has better compatibility and all, and I use it, but it's still rough to use vs MS Office.

The example I use the most is Mail Merging. It's stupid proof in MS Office, but in Libreoffice it's a literal pain in the rear to do, especially if a Spreadsheet is involved.

Re:Switching to Libreoffice?

[CastrTroy]

Personally, I find that MS Office is much better than Libre Office or OpenOffice.org in almost every way. That being said, I use OpenOffice.org at home because it's free and I really don't need an office suite for home use more than a couple times a year. I used to use them a lot back in high school and university because I was doing a lot of school work. For professional work, as long as the price is reasonable (and I believe that for MS Office it is), than I will use the best tool for the job. Ideologies are great and all, but at the end of the day, I need to get my work done, and be able to interact with clients. If that means using closed source software, then so be it.

Also, office suite licenses are a drop in the bucket compared to all the other costs incurred by having employees. Most businesses and governments could probably save a few bucks using MS Office vs OpenOffice because that's what all their employees are used to using. I went for a week long course at a corporate training center (not for an office suite, but most courses were similarly priced), and the cost to my employer was over $2000. Just saving a single day of training would have easily paid for a copy of MS Office.

Don't get this confused with how government (and businesses too, but especially government) should publish documents for consumption by the public. Documents should be available to people in an open and easily readable format. But they can use whatever tools they want that would make them most effective at their jobs and cost a reasonable amount of money.

Re:Switching to Libreoffice?

[Gramie2]

...but in Libreoffice it's a literal pain in the rear to do, especially if a Spreadsheet is involved.

A literal pain in the rear? I think you're not doing it correctly.

Re:Switching to Libreoffice?

[Anonymous Coward]

perhaps LibreOffice mail merge requires doing a lot of stuff with your ass. painful stuff.

Re:Switching to Libreoffice?

[styrotech]

I'm a little scared to think of what "Spreadsheet" means in that context.

Its so the Outlook buttons work

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen an organisation implement Exchange server so the CEO could have her outlook buttons working.
That when the mail started going down on a weekly basis.
Its hard to peel their dead fingers from outlook.

BSOD Colors and Reboots

[PincushionMan]

Yeah, in Windows 8/8.1 it is a baby blue, and it has a giant :( in 128 point font. To be fair, I only got it because I mixed RAM speeds in a RAM bank. Once I rearranged them, it was fine.

Apparently, Vista (and maybe 7) has a Red Screen of Death to indicate some sort of elevated severity versus the regualr BSOD. I've not observed that one though, and don't quite recall what caused it to be red.

Re:astroturfing at its best

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus fucking Christ, don't you have anything better to do? Nobody in its sane mind would spend his time compiling a list of ubuntu vulnerabilities! LOL

I hope you are being paid to do this, otherwise I feel sorry for how miserable you are.

Obvious solution

[JustNiz]

>> they mostly seem to concern compatibility with OpenOffice.org

This a problem of their own making, as a direct result of doing an incomplete rollout.

Why are they even continuing to use or even allow Microsoft-proprietary formats in the first place?

The could easily require that anyone submitting documents to them use ODF (or basically any open standard other than Microsoft).

You asked, here's 4 reasons... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

#1 - Better network-wide mgt. & integration + security via ActiveDirectory & group policies (from a techie standpoint) down to the app level (IE's a great example here since a lot of stuff's "webservices-based" vs. exe's using say, DCOM, since web's easier (less secure but BOTH have security issues... web has more though).

#2 - From a business standpoint: Compatibility is BEST for the most widely used document formats for business out there sticking by MS Office.

#3 - Device Support: Microsoft still "rules the roost" there for a simple reason (no, not the usual 'fud' spouted here of them 'bribing' others either, that's bullshit, they don't *HAVE* to when they're #1 most used in terms of PC's + Servers combined worldwide for decades now). Want to make it as a device maker or software maker? YOU HAVE TO TARGE THE MOST USED MARKET SEGMENT - that's Windows.

Period.

* Per my subject-line: You asked, & "there ya go" - couple of "quickies" I can point out just offhand minus a lot of thought...

APK

P.S.=> Lastly #4 - From a development standpoint, lastly (my forte): Linux has come a LONG ways - Heck: I'll even say I like it + HAVE USED IT (for years @ a time "just to see how the other 1/2 lives" personally AND professionally @ times), but its devtools are CRUDE BY COMPARISON (even now still) compared to say, Microsoft Visual Studio &/or Borland Delphi (my 2 favs, but @ least FreePascal + Lazarus come CLOSE to Delphi imo, since it's an ALMOST EXACT CLONE, telling me "imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery" too)

... apk

Why wasn't it called Munix?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is reserved for a new distribution solely concentrating on being used in Munich. Wont work in Berlin ;-)

LibreOffice 4.3 has made it for me

[SD-Arcadia]

I mainly use Writer, with an occasional hour of Impress work thrown in, and FWIW, LibreOffice 4.3 has reached that point where I'm not running into any compatibility issues with MS Office users anymore. I fully recommend the latest version of LibreOffice, it's come a long way. I've been using OpenOffice since version 3 (year 2008), got all my family and some of my friends to switch, and I think with the latest LibreOffice we've finally made it. I'm still using the .odt format myself but no longer have worries about handling a .doc or .docx either.