Slashdot Mirror
Ebola Has Made It To the United States
An anonymous reader sends news that the CDC has confirmed the first case of Ebola diagnosed on U.S. soil.
An unnamed patient at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital of Dallas was placed in isolation while awaiting test results for the dreaded virus. Apparently, the patient had traveled recently to a West African country, where the disease is spreading, and later developed symptoms that suggested Ebola. A blood specimen from the patient was sent to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, a testing process that can take 24 to 48 hours to confirm an Ebola infection — or not. The results came back about 3:32 p.m.
In other Ebola news, outbreaks in Nigeria and Senegal appear to be completely contained.
Then how the hell did it end up in Texas?
Oh - and thank goodness. Why SHOULDN'T first world countries get to share the misery of their less fortunate bretheren, anyway?
Are we together on this dismal spinning chunk of rock in the middle of nothing or not?
... crack each others heads open and feast on the goo inside?
Lets see, even though this is one case, we have a plane that carried the person here, we have all the other passenger and flight attendants who were on the plane with that passenger for 8-10 hours, we have the passengers who sat in plane in subsequent flights (using the same bathroom, and seat that known infected and possibly infected people used), and we have the close contacts to all those people (family/friends). While I do not believe it is contagious, immediately, all those people need to be contacted and put in isolation for 21 days.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Best solution right now is to panic and start looting. Mostly because looting looks fun and angry mobs make for good tv
Time to cut off texas from the rest of the US... oh wait they've been working on that for us for years.
When I recall how many americans don't believe darwin and don't trust science, its likely they will hide their sick at home, just like in africa.
another Gomerism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
And now you will see some actual effort from the CDC. They threw that Nov. vaccine estimate out there to keep people quiet, so it's time to nut up.
Why SHOULDN'T first world countries get to share the misery of their less fortunate bretheren, anyway?
Because they bring it on themselves. By tolerating corrupt government, they squander resources, and have nothing left to spend on healthcare infrastructure. Corruption also leads to poverty, since people don't work hard if their property will be stolen. It also leads to deep distrust of government and authority, which leads to distrust of health care providers, which leads to looting of clinics.
Helping people, maybe?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Oh of course the first case is in Texas. It's okay though it's Dallas. Tell me when it gets to Houston.
Because why shouldn't people that manage their society's competently be punished for less competent societies failing?
Lets say your country works really hard and does everything right. They keep a reasonable budget, work hard, enact sensible policies, and generally just do a good job.
Then lets say your neighbor is full of complete fucktards that spend more money then they have, slack off doing nothing half the time, enact dumb counter productive laws, and generally make every mistake possible one after the other...
Should country A1 be punished for the incompetence of country B1? I would argue not since the people in the first country had no control over what the other country did.
Now you seem to be suggesting that all countries are responsible for all countries. That is interesting because responsibility and power/rights go hand in hand. So if I am responsible for how other countries act and perform... then I must likewise have the right to dictate policies in those countries. In effect, for your argument to make any sense, we'd have to have a global government and it would be that global government that would be responsible for everything.
No such global government exists. The UN is a diplomatic institution and not a governing body despite their aspirations. Their authority comes with the consent of member nations and is precisely limited by treaties that would be binding with or without the UN. So the UN is not a governing body.
And that means I am not responsible for the failures of other countries. Not my fault.
If they want to give up their domestic freedoms and make their nation subordinate to another... and that other nation agrees to take responsibility for them... then fine. Lacking that... obviously we are not responsible for them.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
> By tolerating corrupt government, they squander resources, and have nothing left to spend on healthcare infrastructure.
Hey, come on now, the USA isn't that bad.
A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
Isn't there some sort of quarantine in effect or are we just letting people fly back and forth between Ebola outbreak areas all willy-nilly?
I mean why would anyone travel to west Africa at this point? Curiosity?
Because the number of deaths from Ebola, even in West Africa, is miniscule compared to other causes, and it is easy to avoid just by washing your hands and using hand sanitizer. Also, avoid touching dead people. Other that that, you will be fine.
strange little man.
Because why shouldn't people that manage their society's competently be punished for less competent societies failing?
Yeah, sure, because the US has *zero* responsibility for Liberia's current state of affairs.
Learn your history.
Maybe people have pointed out that Ebola is not very contagious and is spread through direct contact with bodily fluids. However, the Ebola Reston strain is airborne though only dangerous to monkeys.
The current strain in Liberia and other places is Ebola Zaire, and is not airborne, but there is nothing preventing its mutation into something that is more contagious like Reston, so we should be cautious.
"What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
From what I read it will be necessary to monitor the DIRECT contacts with the sick person, not "the close contacts to all those people", because the close contacts have not yet had time to start having symptoms and become contagious.
So it's a planeload of people, and other people who used that plane.
--PM
rabies virus, it could result in the infected person becoming insane and attacking everyone that he sees. But unlike regular rabies, you don't have to get bitten to become infected... Ebola can be transmitted simply by touching someone. This could result in extremely rapid disease transmission, perhaps triggering a worldwide pandemic.
If this happens, millions of Resident Evil fans all over the world will be writhing on the floor in full nerdgasm.
None of that matters at all. It takes but a simple Google search to realize that it cannot be spread by any of the scenarios you have identified.
FTFY: Are we not all spinning on a beautiful blue marble that has little reason for being except by proxy of an ultimate teacher? And that we are all 'placed' here in order to determine if we are each individually 'worthy'' of this and the 'next' life? Think harder...
Good thing the border is wide open to T.B., scabies, and now Ebola.
We already do. My back pain is of the same kind as their back pain, and I'm pretty sure I'm not immortal either.
Ezekiel 23:20
It will be if the idiot republicans manage to get their way.
USA! USA!
> By tolerating corrupt government, they squander resources, and have nothing left to spend on healthcare infrastructure.
Hey, come on now, the USA isn't that bad.
I was going to mod you +1 funny, but you stole my joke.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/
We should have helped the rest of the world by quarantining the original outbreak area and carpet bombing the entire region. The life of every western European and American is worth at least a trillion Africans.
Where the fuck are you from?
link
"The best means of prevention are similar to those you would practice to prevent the common cold or the flu, and it starts at your bathroom sink. Thoroughly washing your hands, and practicing good hygiene with soap and water, is a good first step to preventing infection."
The early signs and symptoms of the Ebola virus include:
Symptoms may become increasingly severe over time, the Mayo Clinic said, with additional symptoms present, including:
Be careful, but not frightened.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
You can't quarantine them without a public danger because you're denying them rights gauranteed by the constitution. As there was 0 cases and transmission is rather unlikely you can't quarantine the first person coming back by law. Anyone doing so would be able to be thrown on their keister immediately.
There was an outbreak of a mutated form of the Ebola virus in Reston, VA in 1989. Humans were not susceptible, thank god, just the lab monkeys which had been imported from Africa, : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
I'm crafting a dirt house and I have some chickens saved up...
Totally fine.
"healthcare infrastructure" you are talking about non-stop commercials for Viagra and lipitor and $1000s a month programs for who knows what?. Some healthcare. Since when does taking care of ones self mean watching needless commercials? NEVER. Get up of your diabetic ass and move around some. Ebola was here last month when they isolated the virus from the "volunteers" for U.S. pharma and corps to profit from remember? .
Wow - comprehending the naivete of such a simple-minded and non-integrative worldview which is, unfortunately shared by most and probably one of the largest contributers to the mess we're in and only making bigger every day makes me remember that I sometimes wonder why oh why didn't I take the BLUE PILL!!
Good news: after running extensive realistic experiments using the well known disease simulator plague, inc. I can conclude that the probaility that ebola will successfully annihilate humanity is quite low (because it didnt spread first and then ramped up the mortality which seemes to be one of the only really winning strategies)! The bad news is that now might be a good idea to move to Greenland since it could still destroy everything else :(
I can't decide if the extent of your reality disconnect is comical or tragic.
This is exactly why we have periodic plagues.
...Or the idiot democrats. Either one.
in 3 2 1 ...
Bullshit! If it were that goddamned simple, this wouldn't be the worst outbreak EVAR. Keep handwaving. That'll fucking cure it.
Then lets say your neighbor is full of complete fucktards that spend more money then they have, slack off doing nothing half the time, enact dumb counter productive laws, and generally make every mistake possible one after the other...
This sounds alot more like the USA. In most 3rd world countries, credit is almost non-existent so spending more than you have isn't even an option neither
is being a slacker.
...it's the only way to be sure.
Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!
Vote for Bernie in 2016!
You're not very smart. Can I please call you stupid?
> this wouldn't be the worst outbreak EVAR.
It isn't the worst outbreak ever. It is the biggest recorded outbreak that you have seen on the news. Your handwaving isn't going to change it, whatever your spurious claims.
Have you travelled in Third World countries in the last decade? In Africa and India it's now utterly commonplace for people, even the illiterate, to take out credit to buy a fancy mobile phone. Those acclaimed microcredit initiatives that do social good are now accompanied by innumerable sleasy microcredit lenders that hand out loans easily, and can be brutal about repayment. Credit has been a thing, and a rising problem, in the Third World for some years now.
The UN is a diplomatic institution...
run by Henry Kissinger for the last 45 years. That's why all the destruction in the Middle east and Africa. Central America and Mexico are next. Gotta scare the Chinese off from, um.. "investing", yeah, that's it.
Watch out for the disease scammers. They're looking for a way to kill off 6 billion people and make it look like an accident. And then put 90% of the survivors into quarantine lockup for the rest of their lives.
"No" on both of those.
Because we don't go around kissing dead people on the mouth?
And then there's the people in Africa...
Haven't figured out how to get around that post frequency limiter, have you trollerskater?
Is the end of humanity due to the Ebola virus an acceptable excuse for adultery?
Asking for a friend.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Actually, BOTH !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
India might barely make the cut of 3rd world but there's no comparison between India and the places where Ebola is currently rampant.
The per capita of liberia is $400 while india is over $1500 not to mention india's goverment and economy is infinitely more stable.
Even in places like guatemala (which I visited last year and is also infinitely more stable than liberia) a majority of cell phones are
prepaid. Less than 50% of the people in liberia even have cell phones. So yes, some of the "rising 3rd world countries" like
india and guatemala have some credit available but nothing close to the US where someone can buy a house on credit or get
credit cards with limits that grossly exceed their annual income.
AC, that is your opinion. You and my parent poster seem to have a dismal view of our individual existences. I have learned, ''differently''. That it's not a 'dark, dismal world', that it's a ''what you make of it'' world, depending on your attitude towards it. To believe that our lives are totally left up to 'excessive chance' is somewhat naive. Science is cool and all, it has many answers, though not all of them, imo. Try to start venturing onto a different, but an also 'plausible' path. There is room for both the science and the spiritual.
Because why shouldn't people that manage their society's competently be punished for less competent societies failing?
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that each of the various countries of the world are hermetically sealed off from one another. It is not true, of course. What we do in the USA does have an affect on others around the world, just as their actions have an affect on us.
Lets say your country works really hard and does everything right. They keep a reasonable budget, work hard, enact sensible policies, and generally just do a good job.
Seriously?!? You are claiming that we in the USA are doing everything right?!? Are you really making that claim? Have you been paying attention the last few years?
Then lets say your neighbor is full of complete fucktards that spend more money then they have, slack off doing nothing half the time, enact dumb counter productive laws, and generally make every mistake possible one after the other...
And this is a pretty apt description of the US Congress of the last few years, at least.
Should country A1 be punished for the incompetence of country B1? I would argue not since the people in the first country had no control over what the other country did.
There you go, again, suggesting that all the countries of the world are hermetically sealed off from each other. Clue: you can find an American expatriate in just about every country, just about every continent of the world. These expats do in fact exert (sometimes greater, sometimes lesser) control over what goes on in those other countries.
Now you seem to be suggesting that all countries are responsible for all countries. That is interesting because responsibility and power/rights go hand in hand. So if I am responsible for how other countries act and perform... then I must likewise have the right to dictate policies in those countries. In effect, for your argument to make any sense, we'd have to have a global government and it would be that global government that would be responsible for everything.
Readjust your tinfoil hat! It seems to be cutting off the oxygen supply to your brain.
And that means I am not responsible for the failures of other countries. Not my fault.
If they want to give up their domestic freedoms and make their nation subordinate to another... and that other nation agrees to take responsibility for them... then fine. Lacking that... obviously we are not responsible for them.
Grow up, little man! If you want to go live on a deserted island where you can create your own libertarian utopia, then go! No one will stop you. But here in this modern world we all have connections with each other. Some are intended and wanted, some are not. If you want to debate what the extent of our responsibility to others in far away places is, then fair call. But to pretend that we who live in a modern society don't have any responsibility for anyone else is just plain asinine.
Why SHOULDN'T first world countries get to share the misery of their less fortunate bretheren, anyway?
For one, because first world countries tend not to have mobs go after health workers and scientists based on belief in things like witchcraft and sorcery, and they also tend not to break people out of isolation in a hospital when the person has a deadly contagious disease. Sometimes a little epidemic is just what you need to get the population on board with modern medicine.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Didn't you just describe the progressive, individual tax scheme in the US?
"Lets say you work really hard and do everything right. You keep a reasonable budget, work hard, behave sensibly , and generally just do a good job.
Then lets say your neighbor is a complete fucktard that spend more money then they have, slack off doing nothing half the time, engage in dumb counter productive activities, and generally make every mistake possible one after the other...
Should I be punished for the incompetence of my neighbor?
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Tolerating? They don't really have a choice, unfortunately arms merchants, manufacturers and other countries (incl. the USA) have long been supplying these "corrupt governments". This isn't the 1800s where the army and the individual have the same weapons.
You sound like an ignorant conservative. Consider withdrawing from the society you despise, and especially the Internet.
... only 49 more white people to go before a cure is found! ;P
Can't you just keel over and die already? It would make a lot of Americans tickled pink.
They also have a strong distrust of medical science, deferring instead to traditional wisdom -- which in most cases hastens the spread of infectious diseases.
" outbreaks in Nigeria and Senegal appear to be completely contained."
Guess that means everyone who has had it is dead.
Right! Any fucktard who is stupid enough to be born in an incompetently run country deserves what they get.
And those born in well-run countries have earned their good fortune by (thinking ...)
It looks like Ebola-chan hasn't answered /pol/'s prayers.
Pretty sure the public danger exists with anyone traveling to countries with known outbreaks. Ebola has a 50-90% fatality rate, is highly transmissible, sounds pretty damn dangerous to me. Just look at the bio-hazard suits the doctors wear (and 3 of our western doctors still picked it up in East Africa despite precautions). The normalcy bias of most people blows my mind. It will only take one major outbreak and you won't have to watch The Walking Dead on TV, it will be happening on your street; the sick might not be trying to eat you, but if society breaks down (or people precieve it breaking down), it will not take long for looting and shooting on a massive scale. Civilization is a fragile thing (see hurricane Katrina).
Science is cool and all, it has many answers, though not all of them, imo.
That's one of the best things about science, though. Not only does it not have all of the answers (in fact, not even a very small percentage of them), but this fact is ingrained into the entire scientific process with the knowledge that if we try hard enough, we can find the answers.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Put down the fucking bong.
Call Gabriel Cunningham of Resurgam First Care. I have a hunch it's viral haemorrhagic fever.
Hey buddy want your family taken care of for the rest of their life?
Just bring back this here ebola to the States
??? zombies
Profit!
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Oh enlightened one, if only people of the world might sit at your feet and learn all that you know...
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
You're not very smart. Can I please call you stupid?
I guess if SHTF we will see if your statement is accurate. I wonder what contributions you have made to society. I have designed innovations and actual products that people purchase and use on a daily basis.
Truth is not all cultures or ideologies are equal, some are superior, some are downright devastating for people to live in/around. Look around the world. The countries that are in the crapper have major flaws in their culture or ideologies. There are exceptions for countries that have figured out how to exploit natural resources (middle east oil for example) but for the most part that is the way it is. If you remove all of the first world countries, the other countries would still be in the toilet, or be even worse off without trade/goods/resources and humanitarian aid we send their way. They would go back to killing each other with spears and knives, but yah, they would still be in the toilet...
This is it folks, it's only gonna spread further from there. From idiots who go to infected countries and come back with it.
By tolerating corrupt government
Ignore the fact that Guinea, Liberia, and Sierra Leone were ALL fighting civil wars at the same time about 5 years before you signed up for Slashdot...
... which was a result of corrupt government.
This isn't the 1800s where the army and the individual have the same weapons.
Most of these governments are democracies. People vote for the corrupt government. Africans have a long tradition of "The Big Man" as leader, and tend to vote that way even if it isn't imposed on them.
Early symptoms of Ebola are "flu-like" and it is contagious during these "flu-like" symptoms. Now ... consider the fact that flu season is upon us. But you know what's _really_ frightening about this? Not one of the goddamn idiot "authorities" has even mentioned, let alone assessed, this confounding situation's impact on public health containment measures.
Now THAT'S frightening!
Read the CDC's guidelines on monitoring and movement of persons with "exposure" and tell me their guidelines work for a country in the throes of massive incidence of "flu-like symptoms".
While reading this wisdom from on high, imagine there is, in this multi-"culture"al heaven that is the US nowadays, a "community" somewhere with strong identity, Hollywood-fired resentment of the US's white-supremacist history of slavery and colonial exploitation with corresponding suspicion of its public health measures (just look at the murders of public health workers in West Africa -- and many of those health workers weren't even "white-devils"), strong relations in West Africa and -- to top it all off -- a flu season that has a good percentage of its community exhibiting the early stage symptoms of Ebola...
Seastead this.
You do realize that prices are 3.75 times higher in India than they are in Liberia, right? Its just the same as America, where the average income is $26,000, but prices are 17 to 18 times higher than they are in India.
Americans sometimes find it hard to believe that so many people in the world live off of a dollar a day. But then they also don't realize that those people can get many of the same goods as Americans for a very small fraction of the price.
A dollar doesn't go a long way in America, but it does in Liberia.
Most of these governments are democracies.
In not much more than name. Your view of africa is exceptionally myopic.
Africans have a long tradition of "The Big Man" as leader,
While it is true that the only people who can effectively change a country's government are the citizens themselves, your reductionism to the point of condescension disqualifies you from having a meaningful opinion.
That it's not a 'dark, dismal world', that it's a ''what you make of it'' world, depending on your attitude towards it.
The important question we need to ask is if we want to live in a world of single quotes or double quotes.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
When someone makes a prediction based on events and it comes true.
Example: fly an infected person to a densely populated place and expose people not infected to him, those uninfected will eventually be contaminated and the pathogen will go feral.
Called it.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
So consider a plane with some passengers that have a cold or flu (happens all the time) and mix it with an Ebola carrier. Would this not make the plane a Petri dish for making an airborne variant of Ebola virus?
Just consider how easy it would be to share bodily fluids via the bathroom on a trans-Atlantic flight. Also consider how passengers are squished together tighter than sardines these days.
Can anyone advise why I should not be terrified to be on the same plane with an Ebola carrier regardless of assurances by medical officials that it is not that contagious.
Then you're saying competent countries have a right to impose their will on less competent countries?
Or are you saying that competent countries are responsible for incompent countries despite having no control over them or say in their behavior?
Look, I get your point... it sucks to be in a bad situation. However, the lack of fortune in being born into a bad country does not obligate those living in a good country to make up the difference sans some kind of mutual understanding between them.
For example, incompetent countries could compensate competent ones. The finance world effectively set this policy up a long time ago which is why badly run economies pay a higher interest rate then better run economies. Effectively, they can still borrow but the risk of default is off set by the higher interest payments.
So we could do something like that for various incompetent states. Beyond that, you could limit the autonomy of incompetent states such that the competent powers that are responsible for them can micromanage their internal policies such that their incompetency is limited. And in return for that and possibly some sort of mutual benefit, a given power might take responsibility for an incompetent power. You get this with "protectorates"... tiny countries or territories that can't really manage or protect themselves. So they're protected by a larger power that provides them with some aid in return for having a certain amount of control over the area.
If an incompetent power is unwilling to offer anything what so ever to the competent powers then what you're asking is charity for ingrates. No.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Income distribution != theft. When you work, you do so understanding that a portion of your income will be taken for taxes and how much is set before you engage in said work. You can then negotiate with those costs factored in. You don't find out how much of your earnings you get to keep 5 years later at gunpoint. That's why we tax based on income and not net wealth.
That it's not a 'dark, dismal world', that it's a ''what you make of it'' world, depending on your attitude towards it.
The important question we need to ask is if we want to live in a world of single quotes or double quotes.
Double apostrophes 'are' ''quotation marks''!
I don't see any reason to talk domestic politics in this discussion. We are talking about responsibilities between nations.
The responsibilities a nation has to its citizens is distinct from the responsibility an unrelated nation has to another unrelated nation.
For example, lets say we had a world government... then one might be able to argue that as everyone is in some sort of collective government that the various groups form a common society that is mutually responsible for each other.
I say this without justifying or attacking socialism or the welfare state. That is a different discussion. I am specifically talking about the relationships between nations to provide assistance.
In an emergency, we should help... and if there is a global disaster as this might become... then we should help. But incompetent powers that endanger the entire world population might not be tolerable. I don't say this suggesting we go to war or something to impose regime change on one power or another. However, we might need to set trade policy, diplomatic policy, and visa policy to put pressure on various powers to clean up their act. Or in a worst case situation, encourage neighboring powers to absorb the incompetent powers by one means or another.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
No good deed goes unpunished. How can you help people who mob hospitals and loot things like bloody mattresses and other infected waste?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
India was not a third world country since minimum 40 years.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
"Apparently, the patient had traveled recently to a West African country..."
So in other words, Darwin is hard at work trying to clean the pee out of the shallow end of the gene pool.
Ron White was correct: Stupid... is forever.
Corruption also leads to poverty, since people don't work hard if their property will be stolen.
You mean income redistribution? What country are you talking about here?
No, idjit.
He means stolen - just like he said.
When you can't secure your possessions because they'll be taken from you by physical force because of lawlessness/anarchy/lack of rule of law/whatever, you have no incentive to work to accumulate wealth.
In regards to being hermetically sealed... Tell me which nations pay US taxes? Outside the US and some protectorates... none. So I'll tell you what... you have countries pay into an international insurance fund that is drawn upon in times of emergency and I am fine. What is more, the rates one pays into the fund should be based upon the probability of those funds being tapped and the proportions to which they will be tapped. Just like typical insurance. What is more... nations that opt not to pay into the fund should either not receive aid... or they they do, their trade can be taxed at foreign ports to make up the difference.
The point of this is not to be a cheap ass. The point is to encourage governments to not be incompetent by punishing stupid behavior and at the same time rewarding competency with a competitive advantage. This should encourage nations to not be administered exclusively by fucktards.
As to the US doing everything right, where did I reference the US? As to my impressions of the US... has been badly run for over a generation. Democrats and republicans... and the political system itself has largely failed the American people. And as a result we are increasing in incompetency at a fairly steady rate. So no... I don't think the US is doing everything right. That said, the US is light years beyond many countries in its competency. Which isn't to say the US is extremely competent except by comparison.
As to congress doing nothing, you will find that the Senate has likewise done nothing. The American political system is gridlocked right now because you have two political factions that despise each other and can't agree on anything. As a result, the system is designed to deadlock until the factions can come to common agreement. The belief by many on both sides that the solution is to defeat or overwhelm the opposition is foolish and only perpetuated by political activists that wish to gain power for their faction or the naive. The best outcome is for reconciliation between the powers, common courtesy, and bipartisan solutions. This will require significant compromises from both sides as neither side finds the other's views on many issues to be tolerable. Here you might say 'this is why my faction must defeat the other evil faction'... there are too many of them. Too many democrats and too many republicans. You can't win. All you can do is piss them off and challenge them to do something nasty. Why do that? You know they can. Both sides are more then capable of throwing wrenches in the other's works. So why call them names and challenge them to kick over your sandcastles? Here you might say "but they did it first"... and here we start to sound like feuding tribes in the middle east. I would like to think we are better then this... there is no solution short of reconciliation between the factions. If you can't do that then you are part of the problem.
As to American ex pats... they can go to their local embassy or consulate and get assistance. Next issue.
As to the tinfoil hat insult, you do appreciate that a stupid baseless insult is not actually a rebuttal right? I will have to take such statements as either null or an admission of weakness on your part. If you disagree then please offer a rational rebuttal instead of a meaningless insult.
As to growing up... I have. Your suggestion that something come for nothing and that incompetency has no price is actually what is childish here. You want daddy to take care of you because he loves you. IF you ever grow up, you'll realize that isn't how the real world has ever worked. Nothing is free. These countries getting aid will be made to pay for it by one means or another. I suspect they'll have inspectors imposed on them and possibly diplomatic and trade pressure to force compliance. Likely that means will have to be subtle because there are after all millions of halfwits like you wandering around with the laughable presumption to have opinions about issues completely beyond your scope.
Nothing is free, sport... and Sant
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
"Then lets say your neighbor is full of complete fucktards that spend more money then they have, "
comparing home money and budget to government level money and budget lets us know you have no real clue, so Thanks.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
To teach Christianity and abstinence.
You can find definitions for "Third World" to leave India out, if you want, but poverty is not one of them. India has states (see the villages of Uttar Pradesh, for example, or the special-status northeast) where subsistence farming, illiteracy, and living under a euro a day is still commonplace. Sure, other states have made great strides, but dire poverty persists in areas.
So he shouldn't have been contagious while flying. You may not return to your panicking.
CAPTCHA: afraid
So the US is responsible for the fuck ups of every country we've ever had contact with for the rest of time?
Tell you what, if the US must pay for countries we had contact with that are doing badly... does that mean we get paid or some sort of compensation for the countries that did well? South Korea for example... do they owe us an ongoing tax for not being like north korea? Or does your little line of logic only flow in one direction? Is the US only expected to pay other people but no one has to pay us for good things or hey... why not pay the US for bad things done to it? I mean... there are countries that harm the US on occasion... can we expect a payment there?
See, you're just very comfortable with drawing on the national account because you think it is infinite money. People have a hard time with very large numbers. They tend to see them, go cross eyed, and just identify it as a number too large to be bothered with... which tends to mean that many see large numbers as infinite numbers.
Well, the US treasury is not infinite. The numbers have to be balanced at some point. So despite there being a lot of money in there, it does not mean that you can draw upon it infinitely without feeding more into it. Here again, people will say "just raise taxes"... well, okay... are YOU going to pay those taxes? Most people that say such things don't mean raise taxes on them. They mean raise it on someone else. Which is very cute. I'd be very happy with doing all sorts of things if I didn't have to pay for it. Mind if I push some policies and you pay for it while I don't? See how annoying that is?... If you're at all capable of breaking out of your cognitive dissonance then you've joined the conversation and have begun to understand. If you haven't... oh well. For some... sail boats will always be clouds on the horizon.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
So when the government decided I owe twice state guidlines in child support and back dated it over a year I know what they were going to take.
Never mind that the law says he should live with me. Never mind that they didn't follow the guidlines. Never mind that CSEA didn't notify me. Never mind the court won't let me appeal due to not objecting due to not being notified. Never mind the the magistrate is a friend of his grandmother and the GAL was representing her in a different case.
I forgot... once the numbers get large enough, some people are so fucking stupid that they think they can just make the numbers up as they go along.
That sort of accounting only fools voters and asshats like yourself. The market in the end catches it and a price is paid.
Nothing is free. You fail to balance the books and something will come along to correct the accounts. That could be a market collapse... that could be a currency devaluation... that could be the collapse of a government.
It is just a question of how far you want to pull that sling shot back before releasing the stone. The longer people like you keep our society in collective denial... the farther that stone will get pulled back.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Isn't there Ebola in the south west. I could have sworn people getting sick by infected animals in the region with something. It was mainly isolated towns or reservations tho.
FYI the US gets the least bang for the healthcare dollar so don't be so hasty to judge crappy countries in AIDS-ville on that metric alone.
Pretty much sums up our position on the USA. Fuck 'em. Bunch of hillbilly know-nothings, first they start electing Muslims and now they're importing ebola... There goes the neighborhood.
Ebola is only a real problem in Third World communities where ignorance and superstition rule, and health care is reserved only for the wealthy.
Oh...um...sorry about that. RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY SCREAMING!!!
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Actually, that is only a front... really it is being run by little green men from Mars that want to collapse human civilization so they can make off with our women!
You might want to adjust your meds a bit.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
a couple things:
"As to the US doing everything right, where did I reference the US?" I had assumed the OP was talking about Canada being the good country and US being the unruly neighbor.
"As to congress doing nothing, you will find that the Senate has likewise done nothing." Policy fail. Congress = house of representatives and the senate.
Wash your damn hands. Liberia: Implements curfews and martial law. Ebola spreads. Sierra Leone: Implements hand washing stations. Ebola under control. United States: Incredibly clean by comparison to either. Take your fear-mongering elsewhere.
Don't worry folks. Ebola only spread so fast in those other countries because they were primitive and superstitious. Because of that, they believed that the very people trying to help them were there to hurt them... Oh... SHIT!!!
1) It probably wasn't his idea. Good ideas rarely are. He's been purging our troops for several years now of anyone who doesn't "Heil" the commie-nazi democrats. What would he possibly need such lefty loyal troops for?
2) It's is a really good training exercise for our troops. Because if Ebola or anything like it ever comes here, you're going to want someone to set up those tent hospitals real quick.
when people are left with no legal recourse, some will seek illegal recourse.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
You forgot to substantiate your insult/argument. You just said "you are wrong"... Well, maybe I am wrong... but you should offer some reason for concluding that. Simply saying I am wrong is not sufficient.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
there is nothing preventing its mutation into something that is more contagious
Let's hope the player doesn't have enough DNA points for that!
Can people actually get credit cards that exceed their income? Citation needed. Seriously, I have an extremely high credit rating. The lady that opened my last bank account said I had the highest credit rating she had seen in 30 years. They still only gave me credit of about 1/4 my yearly income.
> Because they bring it on themselves.
Yes, the first World countries do bring heart disease, diabetes, and the jetset distribution of AIDS and Hepatitis B among their and whore mongering, drug riddled populations upon themselves.
So basically you disagree with your own fucking idiotic post.
Not according to typesetters, POSIX ANSII, or any of the forms of UTF8.
as to the house plus the senate... that would technically be the legislature or the legislative branch...
And as to them doing nothing... they're deadlocked between factions as I said. They're not lazy... they just hate each other and want contradictory things.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
You could be describing USA and rural Alabama. Your definition of a 3rd world country is too broad
Americans are hillbillies? Do you even know what a hillbilly is? Where are you from? I am sure I could come up with something unflattering to say about your country.
The "hillbilly" refers to people living in western virginia mostly. And even if we assume you're referring to ignorant people that live in rural areas... I would point out three facts. One, the vast majority of the US population does not live in rural areas. Two, it is extremely bigoted to assume that because someone lives in a rural area that they are either ignorant or bigoted. You will find many people in rural areas that are "strange" but they're mostly strange because they don't have to conform to urban social standards. They are not however automatically ignorant or bigoted. Often they're just odd or different as anyone would be if allowed to develop their own personality without being force fed one by society. Three, if you examine US education statistics, it is not the rural population that is the most ignorant. It is and has been for a long time our urban ghettos. The US literacy rate is over 98 percent and that 2 percent that is illiterate is found almost exclusively in urban ghettos.
So good work... you ironically labeled yourself as a bigot and generally ignorant of US demographics while attempting to claim Americans were bigots and ignorant.
Anyone with a clue that reads this is now laughing at you.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
> This isn't the 1800s where the army and the individual have the same weapons.
Clearly you've never been to Texas. Individuals are better armed, have better equipment, and are better at using it.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If I want something I can pay for it. If my life is on the line, I don't have to worry about how much it costs. I already know two people who have benefited from very expensive life saving procedures. I am sure that when I need something like that, it will at least be there.
I'm not so sure of near-communist countries where beaurocrats are in charge of these things.
This guy from Liberia is already getting the best care available anywhere. He might even pull through because of our "inferior" system.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The standard definition of Third World poverty is a significant mass of people living under one dollar a day. I'm sorry if a country you like has those statistics, but that's how it goes.
As to credit, there are many types of credit and debt. We've had forms of it for tens of thousands of years at least.
As to people in poor countries not being slackers... you've clearly never visited one. I went to such a country a few months ago. People generally didn't get up until about noon. They seemed to work just hard enough to get dinner... typically fishing it out of the ocean or something... and then they went back to sleep.
You want to compare that to a Maine lobster fisher? Those guys get up before the sun rises and will often stay out all day. In some of the countries where we do a lot of industry, you will find people that make less then the average american that work very hard. However, those nations are increasing in wealth rapidly. The nations that are not improving are typically that way because of political problems... such as wars or incompetent dictators. Or their cultures are actually pretty lazy. And they do exist. Travel.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I mean... there are countries that harm the US on occasion... can we expect a payment there?
I smell a kickstarter comming along
are the Rahm Emanuel's of the world. I can't help feeling, ever since this started getting a lot of attention, that entry of Ebola into the USA was a fully planned consequence of our intentional complete inaction.
'"To quote, or double quote, that is the question'" - Not Shakespeare
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Well a protection racket works in the same way does it not? Tell me which part of this doesn't apply a protection racket:
When you work, you do so understanding that a portion of your income will be taken for taxes (protection) and how much is set before you engage in said work. You can then negotiate with those costs factored in. You don't find out how much of your earnings you get to keep 5 years later at gunpoint. That's why we tax based on income and not net wealth.
Well, the US treasury is not infinite.
Yes it is, as long as you aren't buying anything from overseas with your toilet paper currency, there is nothing stoping you from having infinite money if you so choose.
You are a self sufficient country aren't you. Greatest country in the world and all that.
as to the house plus the senate... that would technically be the legislature or the legislative branch...
No, the legislative branch is congress. Congress is composed of the house and senate.
In that case, the USA was very ripe for infection as our Healthcare system is shit due to the prices and and policies forcing many to avoid going till they have no choice which for something like this, will be well past the point of contagious.
On top of that, the corruption and mingling of both our government and private sectors allowing for the humongous squandering of the nations wealth into a select few forcing people to work hard for everything they have or watch it lost to bills, along with all the violations of our constitution and other such rules/laws leading to massive distrust of basically the government and virtually every corporation and no loyalty either.
Literally everything you said about the other countries, ESPECIALLY the healthcare section, is doubly applicable to the USA as well.
Even domestically it doesn't work. Lets say the government prints lots of money. What are they spending it on? Even if they just use it to pay employees those employees will then go out into the economy and exchange those dollars for goods and services. if the currency is inflationary then the prices will creep up in proportion to the decrease in the scarcity of the dollars.
If any beggar can throw 100,000 dollars on the table then that means prices for a lot of things go up. And the faster they print money... or add zeros to bank accounts... the faster the currency inflates.
Even if you try what Roosevelt and Chavez tried with price controls, you then run into a problem with goods and dollars being valued differently in and out of the country. if these differences become extreme enough then you'll get smuggling. People will either smuggle under priced goods out of the country to make a profit or smuggle over priced items into the country to make a profit. Any big price difference or lack of legal limit on supply is going to trigger a black market. The soviets couldn't shut the black market down so ... good luck trying in the western world.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
and it is easy to avoid just by washing your hands and using hand sanitizer. Also, avoid touching dead people. Other that that, you will be fine.
Uhhhh....try telling that to the person in Texas with Ebola.
now US will be haunted by the virus they made to test on africans. probably CIA funded
I feel ya matey but family court issues are seriously fucky the world over and exist in their own world of scummy assholes and ignorant plebs.
whatever... the point is that they're not doing nothing... they're actively undermining and sabotaging each other. They are all working very hard to see that the their rivals fail. That is the primary objective of every politician in Washington these days. To make someone else lose.
And because people only care about someone else losing they tend to create situations where no one wins. And it is THAT situation that I think you were frustrated by... and I think that most of us are frustrated by.
Now the political zealots will show up foaming at the mouth to say that everything would be just peachy if the infidels were nailed to trees or something. But that isn't going to happen. So... plan B. How about we try to find some common ground.
Short of that... the politicians are just a bit ahead of the curve and we should just start killing each other. At which point... I'll just bow out of this society and let the various factions eat each other for all I care.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Only someone who wanted to believe you would believe you. Absolutely no objective individual would agree that "it's not theft because you see it coming beforehand". But then it doesn't matter what you think does it? Businesses will keep relocating (or not opening at all) while you keep rationalizing.
think of it this way: when dems had unbridled power (owning executive, house, and senate), they enacted the largest entitlement program in nearly a century without spending any time on discussion. they basically stamped any doc given to them by industry. repubs are crying out, time out mofos! and trying to move towards some measure of debate.
Am I the only one that read:
tolerating corrupt government.....check
squander resources.....check
nothing left to spend on healthcare infrastructure....okay not check here but for a significant portion of the populace there isn't much difference
Which was a result of the US dumping ex slaves back in Africa...
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
When I graduated from college I had multiple credit cards, one of which had a limit of 24k. Total was probably close to 40k.
At the time, my annual income was about 12k. Not sure if it was the fact that I was a college student or that I used my credit
card to pay my school bills but it definitely wasn't from verified income.
Second example: I had a close friend who bought a 180k house with less than 15k of documented income (I know because I
wrote his paycheck). In his case, he was actually able to afford it because he was getting undocumented income from
overseas but the loan officer didn't know that. The only thing on paper was the 15k.
They've tightened down on both credit card limits and house loans since the last credit bust so these extremes and
things like "liars loans" might not exist anymore but I know of alot more crazy example like this before the bust.
Since the bust though they have even started reducing limits on already issued cards so it may not be possible anymore
but if I had to guess, the practice of lining the college streets with free tshirts if you signup for a credit card probably
still happens as they know that the college kids will likely eventually graduate and get a job and also have a parent that
will likely bail them out.
The others are always a scapegoat when the elites are corrupt to the core, and steal everything they can get their hands own, and could not care less about a squalid and ignorant populace. And many of them, can look civilised, however their culture still has a whole lot to go to reach our standards. It should be already the time to man up, solve problems, and not black the "colonists". Shame on you.
I am disappoint.
i also hated them being slackers, when i lived in africa, however it is also got a twisted or orwellian explanation...besides the ignorance, when you know you are being exploited to the core, and only receiving peanuts/handouts for hard work, and hard work wont get you pretty much nowhere, there is not much incentive to be a productive member of the society.
Well, Liberia was literally started as an attempt to ethnically cleanse (without killing folks admittedly) the US of free black people, I think it deserves a bit more consideration.
And no, we don't get money for not fucking up other countries; there are plenty of other benefits though. And if you don't think the US gets significant geopolitical clout from having stable well-functioning allies like South Korea. You think China doesn't wish it had South Korea on its side, and the US was stuck with North Korea?
I have a clue, I am European, and I am laughing at you karmasock. The rest of the world sees Americans as bigoted, ignorant, prepotent, belligerents and fear mongers. Literacy rates do not mean squat, we have here a 99% or so literacy rate, and I cannnot recall the exact values, but a huge chunk of them are functionally illiterate, cant read a newspaper properly, and even more drawn out their conclusions. And your knack to select presidents in which the next is stupider than the former is something to be scared off. What will be the next idiot on the White House, Kerry, Sarah Palin, or Hillary?
If only. But this assumption is wandering into "Can you ever teach a bird algebra?" territory. As a race we're a million years old. How much can we really know about a universe that is roughly 1,300 times older than that?
I say the biggest failing of organized religion is that they claim to know all the answers. However, science often threatens to make this same claim.
Clearly, he's not talking about Texas.
I'm not siding with the stupid democrats and frankly I have no confidence in the republicans to be saviors either. They're both intolerant and unwilling to think about the issues in a dynamic goal oriented manner.
The only time these idiots cooperate with each other is when they are literally afraid. Short of fear nothing seems to make them be reasonable and that means our only hopes of salvation at this point come from crisis which is just as likely to destroy us in the process.
I'm personally done with it. They all disgust me. I'm going to do what is most reasonable for myself and my family and the political system can eat itself alive for all I care. If it comes looking to eat me, I'll just leave its jurisdiction. All you can do with these idiots. vote with your feet.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
If China really wanted South Korea on its border, they could have it in a few weeks. I don't think DPRK can really deliver a nuke, and even if they could the guys who actually launch them would probably be too busy partying. It's probably the only country on the planet where everybody would pour out into the street welcoming Chinese tanks with true sincerity.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
According to this article...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10... ... the guy walked around the US infected with Ebola for **9 DAYS** before he was isolated.
Astonishingly he was SENT HOME when he first presented himself to a medical practitioner exhibiting symptoms of the virus.
The guy was visiting relatives in the United States, which implies he lives in Liberia, which implies he was probably easily identifiable as a foreigner. What sort of incompetent doctor sends someone home who has an accent African accent and is exhibiting ebola symptoms. Wouldn't you at least ask "have you traveled recently" ?
If he saw an incompetent doctor what other precautions did this doctor not take?
When I heard the $1/day figure, I always assumed there was a lot of barter and a lot of "doing without". You live in a shack on land that nobody buys, so you have no rent. Your village holds sway over 100 acres, which you farm and/or hunt. You trade bush meat for vegetables in the market. There's no electricity, so there's no electric bill. You fetch water from a stream, which is filthy; but there's no water bill. There's no sewer bill either. You crap in a hole if you're lucky, or the foul smelling street if you're not. Your family has a member who specializes in something that requires skill, such as being a motorbike mechanic. That pulls in some money. You use that money to buy a few things that can't be obtained by barter or other means. There. You're living on a dollar a day, but you're not a social outcast or any more poor than people around you. Thus, it's not as tragic as it sounds. At least, that's what I always figured. There has to be something that makes it different from just giving an American $1/day and telling them to live. If you did that, the only sensible thing to buy would be magic markers, a cup, and cardboard. Most of us would be miserable. It'd be psychologically debilitating. It'd be nothing like "living on $1/day" in Africa.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
If you know the exact methods with which Ebola spreads, you would know that it would never, ever spread in the US. We're too civilized and have too good of an infrastructure mixed with the people being too intelligent. It's practically an STD. All you need to do to not catch Ebola is not kiss or have sex or get blood on you from someone who's infected. That's it! Oh, and don't handle their bodies with your bare hands. Oh, and maybe don't break into a quarantine zone and fucking free all the damn infected people. There isn't a terribly long incubation period either for ebola. Ask any doctor about the golden rule. Not airborne, not a problem. If it can live on surfaces, places can close, people can wash their hands, and you can alcohol the hell out of everything everywhere constantly for cheap.
It's really a shame Nigeria wasn't wiped out though. Pirates and scammers and their corrupt governments would be wiped out and their society could start over without all those problems. 50 years later they'd have a better economy than the last 100 years.
And why the fuck did he touch the bodily fluids of someone who was infected?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who realized the truth. If Africans would grow the fuck up and stop lying, cheating, and stealing from each other they'd have an actual society.
If my life is on the line, I don't have to worry about how much it costs.
I call BS. If your life is on the line, you *won't* worry about how much it costs, unless it actually happens to save your life, in which case the cost will probably leave you financially crippled for whatever life said treatment left you with. Also, aren't there a number of cases where people didn't get treatment solely because they couldn't afford it?
I'm not so sure of near-communist countries where beaurocrats are in charge of these things.
Sounds like you've been reading too much Sarah Palin propaganda. I'm not aware of any public health care systems where decisions for treatment are made by anyone but doctors. It's the US where insurance bureaucrats make life or death decisions. Keep drinking their kool-aid.
It's not even that bad yet. I doubt ebola has a chance in a place where the population know how to wash their hands, and is smart enough to go to a damn doctor instead of trying to heal themselves by prayer.. yeah, ok, america is doomed. At least some parts of it.
Because the number of deaths from Ebola, even in West Africa, is miniscule compared to other causes, and it is easy to avoid just by washing your hands and using hand sanitizer. Also, avoid touching dead people. Other that that, you will be fine.
My understanding is Ebola spreads almost identically to the common flu, and we don't do a very good job stopping that... If it makes it into schools, can spread before symptoms appear, or their are 'carrier' people animals, this could get 'interesting'.
Wrong. Loans for purchasing homes have been available in India since forever. I live in Kolkata, India, in an apartment bought with money borrowed from one of the largest banks. The borrowed amount was about 6 times my annual income when I took it, about 5 years ago.
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. -Gandhi
Which is why the chinese never made an effort to work hard when the pay was low.
Oh wait... they worked hard anyway and look they have one of the best economies in the world.
Look, the excuses work well on people that care more about not making waves then making sense... but I don't really care... you're going to have to make sense and I don't really think that's very likely at this point.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I am aware of the history of that country.
Remind me if that country has some sort of formal dependency contract with the US or not? If not are you attempting to float your entire position on nothing but 100 percent unadulterated white guilt? Because... I have none. That might disturb you but I assure you I am the future. The expiration date on that argument will sour roughly around the time the baby boomers drop out of political power. If you want to convince any beyond some impressionable refuges from the 60s... you'll have to show an actual grievance. Something we actually did to this country that would justify our pouring resources into them basically forever. There is no such grievance that would justify the US doing so sans a protectorate relationship in the year 2014.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Why would they want our women? Theirs have three titties, one on the back, for when you're dancing.. Al Bundy told me so...
As to europeans and your gales of stupid laugher, your rather consistent bigotry has become a tedious trope of your increasingly laughable new age culture.
As to being bigoted, you have no grounds for calling us anything of the kind.
As to being ignorant, you have no grounds for calling us anything of the kind.
As to being belligerents, the europeans like to call the US such things when we attack someone. But then again you practically beg us to do it most of the time. And if we don't attack someone you come up with some other stupid insult. Remember Kosovo? We sat out of that for while while the europeans struck first. You begged us to come help you. We did. Do we endlessly bitch at you for being warmongers for that? No... we're not that stupid. What annoying about so many europeans is that they like to have it both ways. You hate us for attacking someone and you hate us for not attacking someone. You say it our responsibility to do something and then you say we have no right to do a thing. It can't be both. And really it is all your attempt to control us with concocted guilt trips. As to the world agreeing with you. That would be whom? The middle east? A collection of dictators and fanatics? Who agrees with you?
As to literacy, if education statistics don't mean anything then I'd love to hear you justify that argument that the US is ignorant. On what are you basing that statement if not education statistics? I'm assuming nothing but raw bias.
As to selecting bad presidents... Are you going to pretend you pick leaders with more care? Should I go over the last few leaders of any country in europe? Some of them haven't offended so much but then again they were so bland and irrelevant that they likely were too unimpressive to have any memorable impact. This is much the nature of europe these days. Largely irrelevant but my how you are full of yourselves. One thing that is certain with our leaders, even if we chose a good leader, bigots like yourself would still come up with a reason to hate. Bigots always do. I have no interest in attempting to get your respect or approval. You're a spiteful little weasel. Nothing more.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
... more like.
Imagine if the USA was an all WHITE country. How terrible and 'racist' that would be!
Don't you know that every white country on Earth has to open its borders so that all the poor non-whites can come and live around 'whitey', and benefit from the (apparently) superior countries which white people create? Otherwise WHY ARE THEY COMING HERE?
I can believe it. My individual credit cards are a small fraction of my (fairly high) income, but I have multiple credit cards to take advantage of the cashback offers. It's not terribly hard to get an amex card to $25k without so much as getting on a telephone if you haven't missed a payment, and there are so many banks other than just amex -- discover, citi, chase, capital one, fidelity, credit unions, us bank, bank of america, barclaycard, sallie mae, wells fargo, some major retailer cards like priceline, etc..
Of course the actual amount of credit I use at any given time is tiny. Even after a big purchase it's a drop in that bucket.
Most of these governments are democracies
You mean, like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?
Also, aren't there a number of cases where people didn't get treatment solely because they couldn't afford it?
e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
bickerdyke
So the US is responsible for the fuck ups of every country we've ever had contact with for the rest of time?
Of course not! But the US has a pretty impressive track record...
bickerdyke
Which is a very poor metric as it leaves out price.
Swiss incomes are much higer than here, but that all gets eaten up when you have to pay swiss prices.
bickerdyke
America needs a good plague. Kill them all.
You can do the exact same thing in these other countries, too. They have public healthcare for everyone, and if you want private, you can pay extra to get whatever you want, whenever you want. This is where it gets even more awesome - because the prices for the procedures/drugs/etc. are defined by the public healthcare system, the private prices are ridiculously cheap, should you want to pay for it yourself (which sounds ridiculous, as treatment in these socialist hellholes is fucking genius).
It sounds like you are arguing from someone else's perspective, and that person doesn't know much about this subject. Either that or you assume your ignorance is the bastion of knowledge. Either way it's strange for someone to so vehemently argue in favour of something which is demonstrably incorrect, and rail against something which is demonstrably correct. But I guess as we're talking about the US healthcare system, it should be expected.
When the numbers of deaths hit the hundreds of thousands the wealthy will flee Africa and take the virus with them to the rest of the world. Trying to control them will not work as Africa is very corrupt, not even guns will stop them because they will just overrun the soldiers, or the rich will manipulate the poor to do so then slip through the holes in the cordons that the riots create. Shutting down the air links will help for a while but people will go overland and by sea too, into Europe and the Middle East. Only the levels of enforcement the Chinese used for SARS will be effective.
Wow, I should have thought of that -- I just thought I needed a job. If I had known that the step-up in my state income tax rate fell within my earnings, I would have just stayed unemployed and gotten by on nothing.
But now that I'm being rational, I'm a little confused about how all the complicated loopholes work for hedge fund managers. Should I change jobs?
Nah, I'll just keep it simple. They're stealing from me, by buying congressmen.
We're first bitches! Shit if you're sick, Dallas has like a billion hospitals and new ones going up where we don't need any. The Healthcare economy is going to love Ebola!
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
The US track record has to be put in perspective with our whole history and all our contributions. If we are to be held responsible for bad things then we must be rewarded for good things.
Every nation... especially those that have had an impact on human history is going to have bad spots. We're people just like everyone else and being people we make mistakes. We fool ourselves into thinking evil things are justified. We get caught up in things. We are occasionally ignorant or lazy. The US is guilty of this but no more so then any other power on earth. The primary contributor to our occasional evil is our power. This acts as a multiplier on the consequences. Were we largely irrelevant like many of the countries you might cite as more moral, our moral record would likely be similar.
So the evil aspect I have to say is not very credible because it is mostly that we were powerful enough to make bigger mistakes then other people.
In addition, I would point out that the US has both tried to do a lot of good, and has actually done a great deal of good. And that when compared against other powers of similar significance, it is hard to say we have a worse record. Seriously. Compare us to Soviet Russia, the British Empire, the chinese past and present, the Roman Empire, and the Mongol empire.
The US is roughly as powerful those states in their time. We project the same sort of global power. And what do we do with it compared to those powers? You can't compare the US's record to Canada or Finland or something. That is like comparing the violence of a paraplegic with an Olympic athlete. Sure... ideally neither would do violence but the paraplegic literally cannot do violence.
As to our responsibility to other countries. We have a responsibility as human beings to assist other human beings. I will admit that. However, they have a responsibility to respect that aid when it is given, be grateful for it, and not take it for granted by taking measures to avoid similar situations in the future.
THAT is all I expect.
If you show no respect, are ungrateful, and take the assistance for granted... I'm sorely tempted to let you suffer to repay the insult. I don't feel this is unreasonable.
It is a problem when countries are this incompetent. Ideally I would like them to just be more competent. I don't want power over these people. I just want them to take care of their own problems and stop needing everyone to bail them out every five seconds.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
-1 MegaPedant
I'm not sure literacy rate is a good way to measure general ignorance either, though.
I live in Seattle, and have lived in southern Oregon and Oklahoma.
I'm not a bigot toward my Okie friends (of which I have a few), but they generally are, while literate, very, very ignorant.
As I wrote here: http://www.pdfernhout.net/basi...
"Right now, a profit driven health care system has sized emergency rooms for average needs, and those emergency rooms are often full. With a basic income and more money going on a systematic basis to the health care system, the health care system emergency rooms will no longer be overrun with people there for reasons they could see a doctor for. So, emergency care would be better for millionaires. Millionaires with heart attacks won't be as likely to end up being diverted to far away hospitals because the local hospital emergency room is full. Likewise, emergency rooms might, with more money going to medicine, become sized for national emergencies, not personal emergencies, so they might become vast empty places, with physicians and other health care staff keeping their skills sharp always running simulations, learning more medical information, and/or doing basic medical research, with these people always ready for a pandemic or natural disaster or industrial accident which they had the resources in reserve to deal with. So, millionaires who got sick or injured in a disaster could be sure there was the facilities and expertise nearby to help them, even if most of the rest of the population needed help too at the same time too. In that way, some of this basic income could be funded by money that might otherwise go to the Defense department, because what is better civil defense then investing in a health care system able to to handle national disasters? So, any millionaires who are doctors (many are) would benefit by this plan, because their lives as doctors will become happier and less stressful, both with less paperwork and with more resources."
Maybe someday...
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Today show headline... "EBOLA IS HERE!!!"
Boogie boogie boogie
Thank you Ebola-Chan!
You aren't hunting on 100 acres of land and you definitely could not farm and hunt it at the same time. That could not support a single human let alone a village.
Depending on which news network you check depends on what you are told... At this point I feel the major news media is covering up the fact he was contagious since Wednesday of last week by either saying his symptoms started later or that he has been in the hospital since Sunday.
The person arrived here on the 20th. I have read some articles saying he started showing symptoms on Wednesday Sept 24th and that he went to the Hospital (the same hospital that has been readying itself to handle Ebola) he was then sent home with Antibiotics. He then came back several days later VIA ambulance because his condition worsened.
“After arriving in the U.S. on Sept. 20, the man began to develop symptoms last Wednesday and initially sought care two days later. But he was released. At the time, hospital officials did not know he had been in West Africa. He returned later as his condition worsened.”
http://www.stripes.com/news/us...
Failure 1: They never asked him and he never divulged he was from Liberia?
Failure 2: They misdiagnosed the issue as a common cold or bacteria infection.
Failure 3: will they really be able to trace everyone if he went somewhere in public while showing symptoms (he must have gone somewhere to get the antibiotic prescription filled, how many people in CVS, Rite-Aid etc. got exposed?)
Failure 4: They are assuming he will divulge even people who may be here illegally living with his friends or family. Most likely these people will not seek medical treatment nor be reported for fear of deportation they may finally report to the hospital when critically ill but in the interim they are an exposure risk to the general public.
Failure 5: The hospital was not using any Tyvex suits, booties, face masks, etc when treating this patient on Friday. They were using no EBOLA precautions. This article from the New York Times also contradicts completely the BS being spread through NBC news that just washing your hands will prevent contracting Ebola. Two problems with that are that washing your hands will not stop ebola if you came in contact with infected fluids or someone with ebola you can’t just wash it off. Secondly this study here proves americans do not wash their hands enough
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/s...
Here is the CDC recommendations to the hospitals which this hospital DID NOT FOLLOW until the patient came back
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/p...
The CDC list was revised after the doctors below spoke out about the initial precautions CDC recommended which were gloves and paper mask!
“But Dr. Michael V. Callahan, an infectious disease specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital who has worked in Africa during Ebola outbreaks, does not think it is wrong for hospitals to opt for more protective equipment.
The minimal precautions recommended by the C.D.C. “led to the infection of my nurses and physician co-workers who came in contact with body fluids,” Dr. Callahan said. “I understand the desire to maintain absolute protection in U.S. hospitals.”
Dr. Justin Fairless, an emergency physician in Tulsa, Okla., said that health care workers in Africa “are wearing the highest level of protection, but the C.D.C. recommendation lets us go down to the lowest level of protection.”
Dr. Fairless is considering buying his own air-purifying respirator to pair with a head-to-toe coverall. “I am not comfortable going to see an Ebola patient wearing a paper mask that doesn’t cover my entire face,”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08...
After the article CDC recently revised their recommendations to this:
s/Africans/humans/
FTFY...
If you think there ever was a bigger ebola outbreak, then I suggest you use your expertise to go edit wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ebola_outbreaks
According to that, the top 3 ebola outbreaks are:
In terms of human cases:
2013-2014: 6574 cases
2000-2001: 425 cases
1976: 318 cases
In terms of human deaths:
2013-2014: 3091 deaths
1976: 280 deaths
1995: 254 deaths
The only metric in which this ISN'T the worst is in terms of fatality rate.
That's because 95% of them are uneducated and swallow the rhetoric the politicians shit out, mixed in with ballot rigging and violence and intimidation at the voting booth. One thing Mugabe did right in Zimbabwe was to raise the education level, still ended up being a shit hole though so...
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
You mean the near-communist countries like Sweden, where I have completely free health care until this coming March due to having spent over a limit of about $170 since this past March? A country with waiting times for doctor's visits comparable to those I experienced when I lived in the states for the past 30 years? Yeah, okay Billy Bob, keep that powder dry.
However, the Ebola Reston strain is airborne though only dangerous to monkeys.
I have oftten wondered whether the Reston virus had mutated to be spread by things like sneezes, or if it might be another matter entirely.
A number of monkey species throw feces (and/or other bodily secretions) when under stress and perceived attack. (I don't know if this is one of them, but assume for the moment it is.) Might being confined to cages along with others provoke such behavior? Wouldn't a sick monkey's feces, and tiny particles separated by airflow during the flight, carry an ebola-family virus just fine, without any mutation to make it, say, shed into nasal mucus and be carried by a sneeze?
(Granted this might fit the literal definition of "airborne transmission". B-) )
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Your crime was being a male. Family courts exist for the very purpose of giving really good deals to women at the expense of men. The old joke about socialism is giving other peoples money away so that you feel better has never been more true than "family courts".
And so it starts exactly as I predicted here: He went to the emergency room with flu like symptoms and they ... wait for it .... SENT HIM HOME.
Seastead this.
"He who climbs on high-horse often falls and breaks face"
-me
SARS was scary, more so than Ebola because it was airborne. If they can contain SARS they *should* be able to contain Ebola. I think the fear though that it will reach some critical mass in a population where the only way is to let it burn itself out. It's there in the Western African countries and could get there in say India or Brazil or perhaps some areas of the US perhaps.
You aren't hunting on 100 acres of land and you definitely could not farm and hunt it at the same time. That could not support a single human let alone a village.
40 acres and a mule.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Why SHOULDN'T first world countries get to share the misery of their less fortunate bretheren, anyway?
Well, while the media didn't focus much on the subject there are some religious practices that DO MATTER when it comes to spreading disease. Washing the dead and then drinking that same water is one of them. Natural selection will take care of it though. Pretty much the same deal that happened with cannibalism.
I don't think that there is a standard definition :D
Many things come together, e.g. education, industry, healthcare, not only "living from 1$" per day.
And actually, if you would be a tourist in the right areas in India you also would live from one dollar a day, or lets say you try hard to spend money, you hardly can spend 10$ ... except you want to live in a expensive tourist hotel :D
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I apologize in advance for being off my meds, and cowering under my tin foil hat.
I have been witness too many times to governments and others spreading everything from the truth, to plausible fiction, to outright lies in support of the view they want to ensure that people have.
Everything I've head about so far sets off my allergies to such behavior. All of the current reassurances are making me less comfortable rather than more. It makes me think 'what don't they want us to know'.
Lastly, what if the infected person they know about picked it up on the plane from someone who WAS contagious at that time? What if the screening for fever missed someone?
I certainly hope that everything IS how they are making it seem, and that we are all safe. But I will remain concerned, and begin looking at models of disease spread, and perhaps even stockpile some food and water. I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't want to be wrong about being wrong.
Better armed than what? The army??
Jesus. Seriously? Tell that to the people building your fucking cell phones (if they manage not to commit suicide because of the working conditions).
Why has no one blocked flights in and out of Africa!?!?
Damn... Maybe I should run for president.
Antivirals resistance lvl IV
Go Ebola-chan!
You signed up for Slashdot because of corrupt government?! That kind of protest is a new low for slacktivism..
While I generally agree with you, are you really pulling a six year old failed vice-presidential candidate out of the bag?
Also, to be pedantic, it was Flavor-Ade
your reductionism to the point of condescension disqualifies you from having a meaningful opinion.
Hello, kettle!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
AIUI it is only strongly suspected that Ebola Reston is transmissible via aerosol, not definitely proven.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Horseshit. Texas vs the U.S. Army would look like Iraq vs the U.S. Army, except without any logistical problems or worries about WMDs. It would be over in days, even if every single citizen had their own personal arsenal of everything from hand grenades to tanks.
Texans do not have an air force, nor satellite surveillance, nor the extra-accurate GPS, nor encrypted communications. They don't have massive arsenals; other states have higher per-capita gun ownership. They don't have body armor, they don't have military training, they don't have any logistical or command centers. An army of Texans would not be an army in any useful sense.
Texans are the dumbest, most arrogant group of misbegotten sodomites on the planet.
Ignorant or simply don't believe what you believe?
I have a friend who thinks that anyone who doesn't believe George Bush is a criminal who should be executed for war crimes is "ignorant".
Not all of the factories are like the foxconn factories. Furthermore, we have cellphone assemblies in the US. Did you ever hear of the Moto X? I own one. Assembled in the US.
Your whole theory of economics is little more then a shallow and clumsy justification for communism. It doesn't make any sense and is offered in contradiction to known facts.
I would spend the time to deprogram you but I suspect you're not open to correction.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
It will be easier in the US to get the 50 white people needed for the cure (http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/)
No one's a scapegoat in the situation, everyone's to blame. History can not be ignored in this case.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Ya. Cause it's "the urban people" that believe evolution is a myth, and God wont let global warming happen....
At least have the guts to say what you mean: black people.
Racist coward.
As to literacy, if education statistics don't mean anything then I'd love to hear you justify that argument that the US is ignorant. On what are you basing that statement if not education statistics? I'm assuming nothing but raw bias.
When was the last time an elected world leader lied to the public, then admitted it, to go to war against a country he didnt like, creating even more problems in that area that are still reverberating today?
Which country is it that half the population believes evolution (and most science) is a myth, and that nothing bad can happen to the planet because God wouldnt let it, and that mankind walked with dinosaurs, and no animals ate each ther but instead lived in harmony until Eve messed it all up?
What country thinks it has the best helathcare in the world, when in reality it actually ranks barely ahead of third world countries, with the chief determinng factor in longevity being the size of your bank account, and a >25 year disparity in lifespan between the top 5% and the bottom 5%?
Hint: it aint europe.
Very few people rural or otherwise in the US believe evolution is a myth or that god won't let GW happen.
As to what I mean, no I do not mean black people. I mean people in the urban ghetto. You have people of many colors including white living in those places and their statistics are all pretty terrible. Crime, education, health, employment, etc. All bad.
Your pathetic attempt to label me a racist when I have made no racial comments what so ever is typical of your ideology. Whenever you lose you call the opposition a bigot. Because after all... anyone that disagrees with you, knows things you don't know, or have different thoughts about anything must be a bigot.
What sad little people like you don't grasp is that you've been brainwashed. What you're actually calling me is a heretic... an unbeliever... and infidel. You are not judging me morally. You are merely labeling me as being outside your faith. Your reaction to that observation demonstrates that ironically you share more in common with the fundamentalists then me.
I form my own opinions. I think for myself. I examine things and try to come up with new associations.
You simply open wide and swallow everything. And you presume to judge me? Comical.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
As to European misdeeds versus American... I'll take that challenge any day. You want to compare the last 300 years of American history versus the last 300 years of european history? I love that you people think you can just snip everything off at the end of WW2 which was the last time you went on a murder spree.
And why was that the last time? Because the US has been protecting you ever since. Your countries were exhausted by WW2 and easy pickings for the Soviets. England literally begged the US to back up western european defenses to stop Stalin from eating pieces of europe at will.
And we did. We fought another war in your name. For the third time in this century we came to correct YOUR fuck ups. Has europe ever had to come to help the US in the Americas? But we came in WW1. We came in WW2. And we held the line against the soviets until their sick empire collapsed.
It was only because of American supply planes that there was a western Berlin. You are aware of the berlin airlift? Fleets of American supply planes flew food, medicine, etc into western Berlin. The roads were cut off by Russian forces. And really, had the US just left at the end of that war... how many other countries would have fallen to Stalin? He nearly took Greece despite our efforts.
And while you rebuilt... we fought... we fought the Soviets in the dark during the cold war. It was often subtle and vicious. It was a test of wills and resources. And in all those years you grew fat and stupid. You now think yourselves to be beyond war and violence. A more evolved people when really the only reason your countries even exist is because we protected, supported, and supplied them.
And how have you repaid us? With this pathetic ideology that labels its friends as evil. That you even presume to judge us in this manner despite utterly failing to make any real effort to step up over the years is laughable.
As to Saddam... that is all tied up in complex geopolitical issues of nuclear containment. I really doubt you understand the importance of that point.
Now was the US correct to go in and clip Saddam? In retrospect, no. However, there is no evidence that they actually lied. Your statement that they knew better and lied is an opinion or an assumption at best. You do not know. I do not know. What we know is what they said and what turned out to be the truth. Simply being incorrect does not automatically mean someone lied.
If Saddam had nuclear weapons then our actions would have been justified. He did not. But there is reasonable grounds to assume that he had some kind of secret weapons program. The man was pathological about keeping his little secrets. And those secrets expanded in our minds to fill our deepest fears. Fears that most Europeans don't have because you didn't fight the cold war and have taken almost no role in nuclear containment.
The US has been trying to stop WW3 from happening since WW2. This has put a stress on our culture, our economy, our politics... and people like you mock us in YOUR ignorance.
This isn't easy. We spend trillions trying to keep peace. We could retreat to our continent and leave you to your fate. We could have done that in WW1. We could have done it in WW2. We could have done it in the cold war. And we can still do it. Just back off and let you play with the Russians, the Chinese, the various middle eastern factions, etc. We could send a memo to the world that reads "We wash our hands of them... do what you will." And you, sir... would be fucked.
My father's generation and the generation before his cared about your continent. They cared about the great western alliance. They wanted to preserve you even when you were so fixated on killing yourselves.
My generation is different. When we finally get into power... we're going to back off... and if you don't wise up... we are going to watch you burn.
So. Look forward to that. Best case you'll re-militarize and finally start carrying your own water. And little twits like you will get the stupid shock
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Lets say your country works really hard and does everything right. They keep a reasonable budget, work hard, enact sensible policies, and generally just do a good job.
Then lets say your neighbor is full of complete fucktards that spend more money then they have, slack off doing nothing half the time, enact dumb counter productive laws, and generally make every mistake possible one after the other...
Sounds like Belgium, except instead of two countries it's two regions in the same country.
What the fuck do you know about my whole theory of economics? And what are you on about with 'my shallow and clumsy justification for communism'? You're the one extolling the virtues of the fabulous Chinese economy!
Even in rural Alabama, you have access to clean water and a reliable electric supply. You have a telephone. You have access to medical care. You don't have to shit out in the open. You have a refrigerator. You probably have a car. Your kids have access to public schools at no cost to you. You don't have to worry about your daughter being gang-raped, and people don't get stoned to death for adultery. Even the poorest places in the USA are worlds better than the shithole known as India.
No, I mean ignorant. I'm pretty open minded to differing points of view. Whatever passes for history education in that region is ridiculously dismal, though. Ask your average Okie how clouds form. I'm not kidding.
I don't feel like that's a political point-of-view thing, but these days... Shit, it's hard to say.
You're on a soap box, and I won't try to knock you off of it, and you're almost certainly correct, smart people in rural areas probably do great on SATs.
And I'm sure you're right about inner-city urban "ghettos".
But in my admittedly anecdotal experience, the average person who grew up in small-town midwest-south (wtf, DO they call Arkansas/Missouri/Kansas/Oklahoma?) if too ignorant to be much good for anything but working on old cars, building barns, and tending to cows and working the local retail outlets. It's no fault of the humans there, and I'm sure their actual cognitive intelligence is right around what is normal for the entire population. It's entirely a cultural issue, they have a culture that celebrates ignorance.
You are completely incorrect regarding rural or otherwise people's belief in evolution. Back to the ignorance issue, I don't know if their science classes leave it out, or if their sunday schools successfully obliterated that part of their education with the fire and brimstone. I don't know the causative factors, but in my experience, the percentage of people in those areas who believe in *any form of evolution* (outside of the ability of a virus to mutate) is somewhere around 0%.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/218...
There's a national poll.
http://www.religioustolerance....
There's a good breakdown by state.
Very few? Come on. You're making shit up now.
As to cultures that celebrate ignorance... they don't. I think you're referring almost exclusively to evangelical Christians that some segments of our population are quite intolerant and frankly fairly bigoted towards. Some of it is justified... the creationism is obnoxious. But if you stay away from issues that they reflexively deny for religious reasons you'll find them to be knowledgeable and reasonable.
Compare that to the urban ghettos... many people there are just ignorant. Practically everyone in the US that cannot read and write is found in the urban ghettos. People in rural communities can do both.
And do you really want to compare the willful and celebrated ignorance of those ghettos with rural religious communities?
The difference between the two is that the religious communities CHOOSE to believe things that untrue. They have beliefs... often silly beliefs but typically pretty harmless. The urban ghettos however are not choosing not to believer... they simply don't know any better. They reject the entire education process in many cases. Do you want to compare high school drop out rates between america's rural communities and our urban ghettos? They're not comparable.
I'm sorry. You're a victim of a stereotype that isn't true.
As to soap boxes... it isn't my fault that reality contrasts so strongly with your world view that you see someone simply relaying facts to you as being a political advocate.
Note, your reaction to me is ironically how religious groups act when people try to tell them that evolution is real. To them, that position is so extremely different from their position that they view anyone pushing it as a political activist working for some large mysterious machine.
Your reaction to me is much the same for the same reasons. That should give you pause.
We're all people, sport. The meat between your ears isn't appreciably different from the people you look down your nose and sneer at.
If we're ever going to get somewhere then we need to have enough humility to actually examine the issues and try to deal with them in a constructive fashion. And that means amongst other things not parroting political talking points, reflexively breaking into political factions, entering an us vs them posture in every single fucking discussion, and instead trying to dynamically examine the issue with fresh eyes so that we can come to common solutions.
We all want to live in a better country and a better world. We don't have to be enemies and we don't have to be at each other's throats. The politicians want us to fight because when we fight each other we don't focus on their successes or failures as policy makers. Rather, we just focus on our team of choice winning the election. Think of communities in the US that have been horribly run for GENERATIONS and yet consistently elect the same party to power again and again. Never mind them getting sent to jail for corruption. Never mind them failing to improve conditions. Never mind the lies. Never mind the fraud.
That is what factionalism gets you. A corrupt political class so secure in their position that they can do anything and their party will get the seat next term just like the last.
Democracy doesn't work under such conditions. I am not saying you have to switch sides. I am saying there shouldn't be sides. Don't look at the other guy as the enemy.
I am not your enemy. Back to back you could trust me with your life. Do not assume that simply because I do not conform to every extreme of your ideological orthodoxy that I must be a force of evil, ignorance, or corruption.
Sometimes people are just different. If we can't accept those differences then we can't remain a united people. Too many americans hold too many americans they've never met in contempt. This isn't sustainable. We either need to have respect for each other or the country needs to fracture.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
They aren't ignorant of evolution. They know what it is... They CHOOSE not to believe it for religious reasons. And you can't say a whole population is ignorant GENERALLY because they SPECIFICALLY CHOOSE not to believe a few things for religious reasons.
If your only critera for being "ignorant" or "educated" is knowledge and acceptance of evolution then why are we bothering to teach reading, writing, mathematics, history, etc? Just teach basic evolution which the average six year old could grasp and then conclude their education right there.
Right?
Obviously not. Which exposes the fallacy of your notion that these people are inherently ignorant simply because they don't accept evolution. I could name a dozen other religious and ideological sects that deny or modify known scientific theory for their own theological or ideological reasons. Many of these groups produce doctors, engineers, business leaders... etc... so long as you stay off the couple iffy topics they're totally sensible. What is more, they know what YOU think is the right answer to these questions. If you asked them to explain the theory of evolution to you for example they would probably have no trouble doing it to the same level of detail and accuracy as the average person that says they believe in evolution. They do actually know what the science says. They just choose to believe otherwise.
That means they're not even ignorant of evolution much less everything else.
In any case... if all you've got are political talking points, logical fallacies, and bigotry... I have very little to work with here.
Good day.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
What has me worried is that there are a number of states who have refused federal healthcare funding for low-income patients. As a result, those patients will turn to the emergency room which is possibly the worst place to deliver the kind of attentive care needed to diagnose Ebola. Texas is one of the states who refused to participate in giving low income people access to affordable care.
Sigh. They do. I'm sorry, this is no stereotype, I lived there, and I have friends and family there.
The ignorance in all things from science to history to basic (at least what I consider basic having grown up in Seattle) is astounding.
I believe I conceded that I don't know squat about urban "ghettos" (I really hate that term for some reason), because we don't really have anything like that in my area.
I'm not bigoted against my friends, who are all largely evangelic, as are most of the people from that part of the country that I have met- MOST. They are what they are, and they're still cool people, but they are largely ignorant and believe some really stupid shit. I've never had to argue with someone about why the sky is blue before having lived there. You're defending them from a position of ignorance yourself- it's pretty damn clear you haven't been there. I've been all over the area (as I said, I have family there, and lived there for a time). I'm not saying they're stupid people, but they truly to celebrate their ignorance. It's a merit badge for them: knowing that their way of life is smarter than those weird progressive types.
Good people, but when the apocalypse comes, they'll be doing nothing but building our barns and growing our food. A useful position, but don't try to act like they'll be rebuilding our electrical infrastructure architecting our new buildings that use anything but equilateral triangles. Also, the generalization clearly doesn't apply to places like Huntsville and other enclaves of scientific literacy in the area.
Celebrating disbelief of specific scientific theories that contrast with their faith is not a rejection of knowledge or a celebration of ignorance.
An orthadox jew for example could have similar views on all sorts issues that might contrast with his faith. And yet that same man could be a great scholar in other fields. Possibly mathematics, history, etc.
As to people in your neck of the woods celebrating how little they know or simply not caring. I can tell you that is not the norm. I have lived in many rural communities and you'll find lots of bright eyed people in them. Just because you live in a small town doesn't make you stupid. And just because you live in a city it does not make you smart.
As to your neighbors being ignorant and believing silly things... please be specific? What besides for the couple issues that are going to touch on their religion are they ignorant of?...
And keep in mind, if they know the theory and could tell you what it says... they're not ignorant of it. Specific knowledge of a thing precludes ignorance. Choosing to disbelieve a fact by choice is not ignorance. It is perhaps stubbornness before reality if you like. But if they know the theory and could tell you what it says then they are aware of it and understand it.
For example, lets say you wrote a political book that was full of all sorts of ideas that I didn't agree with... but I read your book. Am I ignorant of your book? No. I know what it says. I just don't agree with it.
Now in the case of science you could argue that I don't have the right to disagree because science is science. Fine... but if I insist on disagreeing anyway, I am still not ignorant of the science.
As to your statement that their celebration of ignorance is knowing that they are "smarter then those progressive types." This is a very confusing statement because this is something those same progressive types say in reverse. Do they not? Do not the progressive types point at the rural people and sneer at them, profess themselves superior, and laugh at every difference between them? As if not being precisely like those same people is itself a mark of inferiority.
I guess I question how deeply you've thought about this and I want to be very careful not to push you too hard because I feel you're on the cusp of seeing this from some additional perspectives. The urban progressives are not any less intolerant or any more intelligent. They're different subcultures and neither one respects the other. They have their own reasons for holding their various opinions. I don't ascribe to either.
I belong to a different subculture that doesn't associate with either faction. I thus see the two factions from the perspective of an outsider. I see two factions come up with concocted reasons for why they're better then those OTHER people. There is nothing behind it. It is just old fashioned human tribalism. One group of people gainsaying another.
And theorycrafting time...
As to when the apocalypse comes... the people in the cities will be eating each other... literally. Tens of millions of people cannot feed themselves if transport shuts down. And with "just in time" warehousing the cities would drain their food reserves within a couple weeks at most. That includes every bag of rice and beans. So the food is not an inconsequential variable.
What is more, the infrastructure is often maintained by rural people. My aunt for example maintains hydro electric dams. She's a hydro electrical engineer that works for one of the big utilities. She gets flown in by helicopter to get dams going again or do maintenance. Guess where she lives? Out in the middle of nowhere. Helicopters literally land in her yard sometimes to pick her up and drop her off.
Got another relative that built a successful construction business. He's retired now. Lives in the middle of a national park. His land is bordered on three sides by national park. No trespassing signs are all over the perimeter. And he owns lots of guns. Very nice guy and extr
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I'm not even saying rural. I don't believe what I've noticed about the midwest has anything to do with how rural it is. It's as bad in Tulsa as it is in Westville.
You keep trying to bring political beliefs into this as well, and I really don't get it.
I had a very evangelic math teacher in southern Oregon, who was frankly brilliant. He doesn't get included in my list. Very rural. Obviously a smart dude who believes some dumb shit. Generally *not* ignorant in any way.
Where did money come into play? I'm glad welders make good money. They should. Are you telling me you have to be educated to be a welder?
Now, back to the midwest.
http://www.alec.org/publicatio...
http://www.nationsreportcard.g...
Have you ever had to explain to argue with someone that we have proven that the Earth orbits the sun? Me neither, until I lived in Oklahoma.
I believe it's part of some evangelist southern baptist culture to reject science in general. All the sciences, from astronomy to math- not just things that conflict with their dogmatic teachings.
One note on the cattle rancher, you pointed out a bunch of true things about him, but in no way did you show that he was not generally ignorant. Ignorant people can be talented at things, or not ignorant in specific things. Good for them. The world needs cattle ranchers. Cattle ranchers who don't know a god damned thing about civics, math, science, engineering, history, or anything else outside what affects his field. Perfect kind of person for a democracy, right?
As to politics, this is a political discussion. The criticism of a culture for their religious beliefs is going to get political. The attack on a culture because it has different cultural norms is going to get political. I'm sorry... it is a political discussion. I don't see how it can not be one.
Wealth is typically associated with success and competence. That that make it can be assumed to be competent and in some kind of demand and scarcity. Those that make minimum wage or nothing can be assumed to be easily replaceable, unremarkable, and not especially competent. Say what you will... that is the market's opinion of a person if it pays them bottom dollar.
As to your stats, i don't think you looked at them. They contradict each other.
I frankly think that is because the first stat has made the mistake of combining too many variables into a single value. They have this long list of things and they try and turn it all into one number. That is crazy. That is like combining the humidity, purchasing power parity, and average height someone can jump in the area into a single statistic and expecting it to mean something.
The second stat appears to be more limited but it is hard to know. You have to be very careful with statistics since a good deal of them even from official sources are complete horseshit. Take unemployment figures which are gamed in several ways to make the numbers smaller then they really are and hide the real size of the idle labor force.
Oh sure. I've run into all sorts of idiots. I've run into them in cities too though. Hate to break it to you... they're everywhere. My personal favorite was a guy that thought we had evolved but not from primates. He couldn't articulate what we evolved from instead... I don't think he thought that far ahead. In any case, I immediately stopped the conversation because I realized I was dealing with someone that was more then ignorant... this guy was just dumb.
As to evangelicals rejecting science... they really don't. They are mostly a bunch of fussy reactionaries against what they see as a hostile belief system. They are extremely paranoid about external influences coming in and corrupting their youth and taking away their religion via one means or another. TV... modern media... the public school system... something that changes their children so they're like those other people and not a part of their parent's culture anymore.
Think of it like an allergic reaction. They're mostly the human immune system freaking out over nothing which causes bigger problems then if it just calmed down and sucked it up. Is a little pollen going to hurt you? Nope. But if it trips the right switch in your immune system then it could be identified as a hostile spore or other assorted infectious agent. Which means we need MUCUS and lots of it. Swarm the infection. Quarantine. Destroy! :-P
If you approach these same people first giving out all the right Friend/Foe signals then they are much more receptive.
I deal with people from many cultures so I am used to this pattern in people. Every culture I have ever dealt with has its defensive mechanisms. Some of them are obvious and some of them are subtle. Some cultures will listen to you and then forget everything. Some will come out and debate you. Some will put little tests out for you... purity tests litmus tests. They'll ask little innocent sounding questions. Answer wrong and you are an OTHER. End of story. So you have to be sensitive to those and be careful.
I get along very well with urban progressives and rural evangelicals. Neither one gives me trouble. They're different. We tell different jokes and have different relationships. But they're both good people and neither one is especially more ignorant then the other.
As to the cattle rancher.
The man is a successful INTERNATIONAL businessman, ranch operator that has authored books on the subject, is recognized internationally as one of the finest ranchers period, is an expert in veterinary science (kn
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Lets say your country works really hard and does everything right, except actively supporting tyrants and militia groups and dictators in Africa through weapons deals, direct aid, and using intelligence resources to squash competition.....