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Ebola Does Not Require an "Ebola Czar," Nor Calling Up the National Guard

Lasrick writes: David Ropeik explores risk-perception psychology and Ebola in the U.S. "[O]fficials are up against the inherently emotional and instinctive nature of risk-perception psychology. Pioneering research on this subject by Paul Slovic, Baruch Fischhoff, and others, vast research on human cognition by Daniel Kahneman and colleagues, and research on the brain's fear response by neuroscientists Joseph LeDoux, Elizabeth Phelps, and others, all make abundantly clear that the perception of risk is not simply a matter of the facts, but more a matter of how those facts feel. ... People worry more about risks that are new and unfamiliar. People worry more about risks that cause greater pain and suffering. People worry more about threats against which we feel powerless, like a disease for which there is no vaccine and which has a high fatality rate if you get it. And people worry more about threats the more available they are to their consciousness—that is, the more aware people are of them."

384 comments

  1. Politics by pubwvj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If having a Czar will concentrate more power in their hands then a Czar is what they'll create. We already have the CDC. If this were about solving disease problems then the President would give the CDC more funding if they needed it. This is not about solving problems but about power.

    1. Re:Politics by aaron4801 · · Score: 1

      That why, even as an 'infectious disease response coordinator,' it's a lawyer and politician who got the call. If they had just stated the truth, that Ebola is hard to spread with proper controls, and can be contained, there would be no panic, there would be little media attention, and there would be no need for a czar. But as you said, there would be no need to concentrate power, so no dice.

    2. Re:Politics by Sowelu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Er, that's basically what they've been saying this whole time. Lots of reactionaries in the media are screaming that those very statements are lies and cover-ups.

    3. Re:Politics by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2

      If having a Czar will concentrate more power in their hands then a Czar is what they'll create.

      Czar's are usually there to be completely ineffective and take the fall when side A politically leverages hindsight and/or the situation that they themselves have helped create against side B.

      Don't be a Czar, it won't end well for you.

    4. Re:Politics by sl3xd · · Score: 5, Informative

      If they had just stated the truth, that Ebola is hard to spread with proper controls, and can be contained...

      For the public, notions of safety went out the window after the clusterfsck in Texas.

      - A patient went to the ER with symptoms, and was sent home
      - People in government-mandated quarantine didn't honor the quarantine, and went to public places. It took armed guards to enforce the quarantine.
      - Two nurses, wearing the recommended protective equipment became infected, and are being treated now.
      - One of the nurses went on an airline flight after treating the Ebola patient, in violation of a number of CDC policies
      - Personnel treating the first ebola patient were in constant contact with hundreds of others, including other hospital patients

      Restated facts (or "truth") about how difficult it is to transmit can no longer combat the fear that has brewed up.

      A pattern of mistake after mistake has emerged - things that should have never happened did. People who knew better didn't do the right thing, over and over.

      It's a PR disaster, pure and simple. Any goodwill or trust the public had was burned up in Texas.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    5. Re:Politics by towermac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And look who's reacting to the reactionaries.

    6. Re:Politics by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      If this were about solving disease problems then the President would give the CDC more funding if they needed it.

      Did they change the Constitution last week and give the President the power to budget government money? Why wasn't I told about this?

    7. Re:Politics by towermac · · Score: 1

      I was thinking they set up a fall guy, just in case.

      It's going to be so obvious though, in hindsight, if it turns out they need a fall guy. It's kind of obvious now.

      But really, people are going to fall for that? Blame the shrub that Obama set there in front of us? Too obvious.

    8. Re:Politics by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I know!

      Let's declare war on Ebola!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    9. Re:Politics by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2

      As soon as any government appoints a Czar, you know that they know bad things are going to happen.

      Usually:
      * The person has little actual power
      * They are allocated minimal resources
      * Decisions come from the people above
      * Blame falls upon the Czar's shoulders
      * Appointing a Czar makes it look like you're doing something, even though you don't actually have to know what you're doing
      * Almost inevitably the Czar resigns or is fired later for being ineffective - because they were never actually there to do anything or even empowered to do anything

      When you see a Czar being appointed you should immediately think, "they know the outcome here has a high probability of being very damaging politically, likely because they either don't have the answers and they know it, or the answers they have point to a very unpopular outcome".

      That's not being cynical, it's just reality.

    10. Re:Politics by peragrin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is the CDC plan didn't work and the CDC and the hospital completely broke proper isolation procedures.

      You never give the care takers permission to leave the town until after they have been isolated long enough to be clean. Let alone when one of them ask for permission to fly when she has a slight fever you say no.

      I always figured the CDC could handle a major outbreak. now I don't think they could.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    11. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or maybe its politicians who want to ignore serious concerns from the actual experts. Dr. Osterholm who runs the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota has been saying this particular strain of ebola is likely airborne for weeks. The major papers have been reporting his findings and he gave a speech on C-Span last week regarding this concern, is he a political pawn of the right?

    12. Re:Politics by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is not about solving problems but about power.

      You just summed up the Democratic party.

      He also just summed up the Republican Party.

    13. Re:Politics by tsotha · · Score: 4, Informative

      First of all, we already have a "Czar" for this sort of thing. Her name is Dr. Nicole Lurie. That's the real reason we don't need a "Czar" - we already have one.

      Secondly, the president can't give the CDC more funding. That's Congress's job.

      Thirdly, in the last fifteen years the CDC budget has doubled, so they already have plenty of money. In fact, they have too much money, which has allowed them to ignore their primary mission and go off and do things like stump for gun control, study why lesbians get fat and gay men don't, and determine most monkeys are right handed.

    14. Re: Politics by Kvathe · · Score: 0

      You forgot the last part: Texas brought to it's knees as millions succumb to wildly communicable Ebola virus. oh, wait.

    15. Re:Politics by riverat1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It should be said that most of the mistakes here were by the hospital in Texas, not the CDC. If the CDC had descended on the hospital like a ton of bricks and the first inkling of Ebola they might have prevented most of that from happening then people would be complaining about Federal overreach. Instead they're complaining they didn't do enough. Regardless of what it does there's a certain sector of the American public that will always find a way to fault the government.

    16. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      This being an airborne strain is absolute bullshit. There is NO evidence whatsoever to point to it being an airborne pathogen, and there is only a single strain of ebola in the past that has gone airborne and it doesn;t even effect humans. Furthermore that airborne strain of ebola is not the strain of ebola that our current ourbreak has evolved from. This current outbreak is from an older 1980's strain also from africa. Believe me, if this were airborne you would know. People are looking to african nations that are battling the ebola virus right now and they think "Oh shit thousands upon thousands infected in only a few months, HAS TO BE AIRBORNE". That might be true if that was happening here in America where extremely tight quarantine measures are (SUPPOSED) to be observed properly but Africa is a completely different ballgame. Quarantine measures were NOT observed by the majority of the africans infected (only quarantine measures taken were pitiful and only existed in certain places where the people where afraid to go) and to make it even worse education in african nations about the ebola virus was met with suspicion and doubt. The current infection rate in africa, while it may match that of an airborne pathogen, is only due to these horrible conditions. When the majority of people in africa start observing proper safety protocol, when education of the people has actually worked and people arent touching their dead and shit anymore, and when proper medical equipment and staff can get there you will see the infection rate come down to levels appropriate of a virus that spreads only through bodily fluids.

      tl;dr This isnt an airborne strain, there is absolutely no evidence of that. The currently high infection rate in Africa is from many other reasons all working together to cause a horrible situation thats almost unmanageable for the people currently in charge.

      If this whole outbreak had been in america instead of africa the dead would be less than a thousand easily.

    17. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and it would have happened anywhere else in the US where the hospital wasn't expecting to have an ebola patient walk through the door. Given that 100-150 people from West Africa arrive in the US every day, I expect that it will happen again since most hospitals aren't ready and there is only so much space in the high security facilities that the patients have been moved to.

    18. Re:Politics by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Lesson: don't go to a shitty community hospital for anything except a broken arm.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    19. Re: Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until hospitals are no longer a for profit enterprise, expect more patients with Ebola being shooed off...

    20. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This explains why people freak out about civilian gun ownership but are perfectly fine driving to and from work every day, despite the fact that they are far more likely to die in an automobile accident than from a gun discharge (even in areas where civilian gun ownership is very high).

    21. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It should be said that most of the mistakes here were by the hospital in Texas, not the CDC. If the CDC had descended on the hospital like a ton of bricks and the first inkling of Ebola they might have prevented most of that from happening then people would be complaining about Federal overreach. Instead they're complaining they didn't do enough. Regardless of what it does there's a certain sector of the American public that will always find a way to fault the government.

      I wouldn't quite agree with your comment. Part of the problem is the perception of the CDC; people think they're an organization that when a serious health issue breaks out, they send in the CDC Crisis Response Team to immediately quarantine the threat, diagnose it and treat it. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a CDC Crisis Response Team; they just set one up for ebola. The CDC's mission is to research infectious diseases and provide ideally scientifically sound research advice to hospitals, but it's the hospitals in the trenches who are dealing with patients; that's not the CDC's normal job.

      The hospital in Texas screwed up in the handling no question. But the CDC needs to handle the message to the public and proper guidance of control and treatment procedures; in this case they made enough mistakes that it muddled the issue, confusing the populace and creating mistrust and fear when trust and faith in the medical community is exactly what needs to happen right now.

    22. Re:Politics by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It should be said that most of the mistakes here were by the hospital in Texas, not the CDC.

      That's just endless buck-passing. The reality is that the kind of fuck ups that could happen, did happen, like a storyline from some cheap zombie/biothriller novel.

      The CDC protocols were flawed and the CDC wasn't there to advise and observe and if they did they screwed that up. Worse, I think the CDC invited complacency with its don't-panic focus. The whole mess in Texas might have been avoided if they had taken a slightly more danger-focused mindset,

    23. Re: Politics by budgenator · · Score: 3, Funny

      American Hospitals are almost always Non-profits.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    24. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The power to do less versus the power to do more is a meaningful difference, as is centralizing power versus distributing it.

      To pretend that there is no practical consequence to the difference in governing philosophies is nonsense.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    25. Re:Politics by NicBenjamin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That why, even as an 'infectious disease response coordinator,' it's a lawyer and politician who got the call.
      If they had just stated the truth, that Ebola is hard to spread with proper controls, and can be contained, there would be no panic, there would be little media attention, and there would be no need for a czar. But as you said, there would be no need to concentrate power, so no dice.

      Dude,

      I see what you're saying, but you're missing something: Nina Pham is pretty. She's 26. She's got a college degree. She reminds everyone who makes decisions in the media of their daughter/girlfriend/best friend/etc. And she's got a very high risk of death because she caught a deadly disease on her job. Then her boss tried to blame her for it by saying she fucked up the protocol.

      The media could be convinced to ignore thousands of poor Liberians dying. It could be convinced to treat the missionaries and Doctors airlifted back to the US. That shit is supposed to happen in Africa. But Nina Pham has a really interesting story, great visuals, and a compelling main character.

      Appointing a political hack as "Ebola Czar" to shut the GOP up is the real world version of telling everyone to calm the fuck down and go the fuck home.

    26. Re:Politics by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      To pretend that the governing behaviors have a substantial correlation with the alleged governing philosophies is...empirically tenuous at best.

    27. Re:Politics by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      This is not about solving problems but about power.

      You just summed up the Democratic party.

      He also just summed up the Republican Party.

      No, just politics in general, regardless of party or political system.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    28. Re:Politics by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      The President can't unilaterally increase CDC funding. He has extremely broad discretion in moving funds around (the check on his power to cut one program's budget and use it for his pet priorities is not that he can't do that shit; it's that Congress would freak out and zero out said pet priorities budget next year), but he can't just add a bunch of money to the CDC.

      The Republican House almost certainly claims that if they'd gotten Romney the CDC would have been adequately funded, but the tend to define "adequate funding" vaguely because every voter will assume their Congressman shares their interpretation of "adequate." But that claim isn't really relevant.

      What's relevant is that Obama won; he and the House GOP agreed on the budget after much extreme BS; but now a) everyone wishes they'd added a little juice to the CDC's Ebola numbers and b) nobody actually believes there's a chance in hell that the two parties will agree on a new (higher) CDC budget anytime in the foreseeable future.

    29. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Obamacare - straight party line vote from guess who?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    30. Re:Politics by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      As soon as any government appoints a Czar, you know that they know bad things are going to happen.

      Usually: * The person has little actual power * They are allocated minimal resources * Decisions come from the people above * Blame falls upon the Czar's shoulders * Appointing a Czar makes it look like you're doing something, even though you don't actually have to know what you're doing * Almost inevitably the Czar resigns or is fired later for being ineffective - because they were never actually there to do anything or even empowered to do anything

      When you see a Czar being appointed you should immediately think, "they know the outcome here has a high probability of being very damaging politically, likely because they either don't have the answers and they know it, or the answers they have point to a very unpopular outcome".

      That's not being cynical, it's just reality.

      Just look at what happened to the last Czar they appointed in Russia...
      (I think there's a 'In Soviet Russia' joke in there somewhere, but I'm not going to say it.)

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    31. Re:Politics by ogdenk · · Score: 1

      Pretty much, if you aren't voting Green or Libertarian you're most likely part of the problem.

    32. Re: Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure how you justify that statement? There are tons of for-profits here in AZ and definitely a ton in California as well.

    33. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republicans? Maybe you forgot the part about the bill getting neutered by caving to republican demands.

    34. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Informative

      LOL. No. Written by Democrats and "Progressive" lobbyists, and voted for by Democrats. The Democrats own it lock, stock, and barrel.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    35. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The CDC isn't there to "handle" anything. It's up to the medical facilities. CDC is not an organization that establishes clinical facilities. If shit hits the fan, the National Guard or other military will be setting up field hospitals etc.

    36. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A politician can only afford to trust an expert as much as the public already trusts that expert.

    37. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, that's basically what they've been saying this whole time. Lots of reactionaries in the media are screaming that those very statements are lies and cover-ups.

      Er, no. That's not what they have been saying. They have been saying things like sitting right next to a person with Ebola on a plane is very low risk and the risk of a nurse getting the disease in the United States is very low because of our "modern" healthcare system (that has a total capacity of 11). Absolutely absurd.

    38. Re: Politics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Almost always, but not always. http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/...

    39. Re: Politics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Non-profit hospitals still have to have a profit, or they go bankrupt. They just aren't allowed to pay that profit to the owners as dividends.

    40. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this were about public health, and perception, the President and Congress would nominate a fucking Surgeon General!

      Sadly, they're stuck in kindergarten playing politics! This Government is absolutely disgusting.

    41. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LOL. No. Written by Democrats and "Progressive" lobbyists, and voted for by Democrats. The Democrats own it lock, stock, and barrel.

      I'll just leave this right here for you.

    42. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was "neutered" to cave to more moderate dems so it would pass. Dems own it. They won't tell you the truth though, perpetual lies to keep the population confused.

    43. Re:Politics by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Tsars are needed because they create the conditions necessary for Socialist revolution. Well, at least one of them, anyway,

    44. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If having a Czar will concentrate more power in their hands then a Czar is what they'll create. We already have the CDC. If this were about solving disease problems then the President would give the CDC more funding if they needed it. This is not about solving problems but about power.

      This isn't insightful. The point of hiring a presidential assistant (aka czar) is to facilitate quicker action via the execution of Presidential Authority... Not something that the CDC has. Not sure how you got modded up....

    45. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see your talking points are in order. comrade.

    46. Re:Politics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Or the FEMA Czar after Katrina.

    47. Re:Politics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      That'll just make it more available and more expensive.

    48. Re:Politics by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      determine most monkeys are right handed.

      Well that's good to know.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    49. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Informative

      News flash: Romney was never elected President. (I do understand the logic, you can't 'blame" this on Bush, can you?)

      I'll just leave this right here for you.

      I can understand trying to weasel out from being blamed for that turkey, but it isn't going to happen. You can try to make all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day Obamacare was written by Democrats and "Progressive" lobbyists, amended with juicy pork to bribe Democrats to not bail on it, passed by Democratic votes, and signed by a Democratic president. Ownership: Democrats - lock, stock, and barrel. Blame: Democrats - start to finish.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    50. Re:Politics by cjanota · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      You can fix anything with duct tape and sticks.
    51. Re:Politics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      No, you never understood it. Congress sets the budget. The Executive executes it. If the budget gives $10 to shoes and $100 to purses, then the executive can spend $10 on purses and $100 on shoes, and call the shoes purses, and the purses shoes. That's the way it works in the private sector, and that's where the government minions learned their tricks.

    52. Re:Politics by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Quite simple, what happens reflects the nature of a privatised for profit system. They do lip service to government regulations but if it is more profitable to ignore the rules then the cost of the penalties, regardless of the outcome, then private for profit entities will ignore the rules. When it comes to high risk medical services putting it in the hands of private for profit capitalists based upon the reality of the last century of private for profit entities, is just plain nuts, especially where those private for profit entities would actually generate more profits by failure than by success ie the spread of an infectious disease for them to treat.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    53. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      People don't like some ways of dyeing more than others. Example: airline crash is a real least favorite. We spend far more per death preventing that one than ones like flu.

    54. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Dude, fucking Nigeria was able to contain an outbreak with... let's just say less resources than US hospitals and CDC. The real problem is that our "best health system" is actually an otherwise shitty health system with many very good doctors and nurses in it.

    55. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      I agree. CDC advises health professionals who are free to not give a fuck what they say and do their own thing. Regulations on doctors in the US are essentially zero and will stay that way. In the end our health system depends on doctors to do the right thing and while most do, some don't.

    56. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe your off, I know NPR ran a story that one nurse was on a cruise ship, she was one of the nurses that was aiding Mr.Duncan, she reported having a fever and some other symptoms the Coast Guard flew out to the ship, the nurse quarantined herself to her room during her symptoms, the Coast Guard had testing supplies to take blood samples, in the end she didn't have Ebola.

      And NPR the BBC, CDC have made it perfectly clear the only way to get the virus is from someone who is extremely ill. From what I understood from research of possible mutations from the current outbreak (also remembering viruses are unpredictable when they mutate) the Virus isn't expected to mutate into an air-borne (I.E Flu, SARS) virus. I don't know what the networked driven press is talking about, but considering they lie out their ass about shit all the time, or post whatever they want the masses to know, its not hard for people to think or believe their being lied to by the government because they want people to stay calm and not go into chaotic panic mode and start all out anarchy.

      However the people that were in close/direct contact with Mr.Duncan before he was isolated in the hospital, passed the 21 day quarantine period without having the virus. Only the nurses that were in direct contact with his "bodily fluids" (as mentioned earlier in the above paragraph) came down with Ebola.

      There are other stories on Ebola from NPR one of them NPR attended a seminar (which took place in the US) with one of the Doctors that did his tour of duty (if you will) helping out Ebola patients. And he was asked all types of questions, can you get Ebola if someone is ill and has touched a taxi door handle or any other object? can you get Ebola if they are bleeding out or shitting themselves on a Taxi seat, or any other objectl? There were a boat load more but those are the questions people are asking themselves, or are in panic over.

      And he said the worst case questions were a low probability, to zero. The virus cannot live outside the body, depending on how fresh the fluids are the virus begins to die off, again while outside the body. The corpse will still be ravaged with Ebola, since the tissues are still good, but once once the body begins to decompose so does the virus.

      It shows me that even with proof from people that were in contact with the man, but didn't get Ebola, and it wasn't till the virus ravaged his body that he was "infectious". They still are in idiot mode, where is their "faith in god" or "this is gods plan just go with it" attitudes? Instead they turn to wolves in sheep's clothing with fear, panic, chaos, and anarchy, and just general lack of any common sense.

      The CDC I believe have a detailed web page that myths and reality.

    57. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 2

      Blame: I'll take it. The vast majority of the bill is intended to reduce fraud in medicare (and has done so). The parts that you think of as Obamacare are working out very well too.

      But, I do admit that the intellectual conception of Obamacare came from the right wing think tanks. And that makes sense, it's ultimately very libertarian / free market oriented. They just couldn't get it implemented.

    58. Re:Politics by cyn1c77 · · Score: 2

      If the CDC had descended on the hospital like a ton of bricks and the first inkling of Ebola they might have prevented most of that from happening then people would be complaining about Federal overreach.

      Really?

      If the CDC had clamped down on that hospital, the only people complaining would have been the hospital staff.

      Instead, the CDC has lost most of the public's trust.

      Ebola is a deadly virus. With deadly things, you are expected to be proactive, not reactive. Once you react, people are already dead.

    59. Re:Politics by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      Simpsons Did It. Anyone remember the Bear Patrol?

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    60. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just how sure are we that we have a handle on Ebola transmission? Sure, it's transmitted by bodily fluids, but the disease itself causes people to leak those in significant quantities. I have questions about how well our hospitals are actually prepared to deal with this sort of thing given that they're worked for insane hours and everybody gets sloppy when they're tired in my experience.

    61. Re:Politics by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Effectively been done in a small way by sending a team and troops to isolate it at the source before it spreads to millions. More of the same is the sane way to do it (according to some medical professionals that call themselves experts in tropical diseases). Attempting to cut it off at the border didn't work with Spanish Flu after the WWI and would be far more difficult to attempt today. Cancel all flights in and out of the USA for a month and it may still come in via Canada or Mexico.

    62. Re:Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I see you're using "special" terminology in which "fraud" more or less has the meaning of payments for care to the elderly. In that case it has been a "marvelous success" which in ordinary language is commonly known as a minor disaster. But chin up, worse is yet to come.

      After One Year, Obamacare’s Biggest Achievement: Hiding Its Cost

      And a minor clarification is needed, Obamacare was written by Progressive lobbyists and Democrats, not think tanks on the right. Even if there are some similarities there are also substantial and important differences.

      But now I'm curious, are you truly so uncurious that it never crossed your mind to investigate why think tanks on the right abandoned those policies, why they decided they were in fact bad ideas?

      Also, you can thank the Democratic party in general, and Ted Kennedy in particular, for blocking one or more generally similar schemes in the past. The Democrats did the right thing for the wrong reason then. Now they did the wrong thing for the wrong reasons and we'll all be paying.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    63. Re:Politics by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 1

      Sure, it is easy enough to contain with the right procedure.

      Except the human element keeps fucking that up. Texas Presbyterian should have sent the patient to a different hospital equipped to handle it the moment they knew what it was. They didn't. Two nurses screwed up and got sick. The hospital wasn't giving proper oversight to the problem. Incompetent management ensured that problems didn't get fixed.

      Ebola is also more infectious than people would have you believe. Direct contact is within three feet. If they sneeze or cough on you, they can transmit the virus. The virus doesn't present itself with these symptoms, but it's nevertheless a perfectly reasonable possibility. Under the right conditions (4 degrees C on glass), the zaire strain has been shown to survive up to fifty days. Further, it's still plenty alive for weeks after the host has died.

      But still not enough to make me the least bit worried until you factor the human element. The nurses did screw up even though they swear up and down they didn't. If they didn't then they wouldn't be sick. It's that simple. The suits work perfectly fine supposing they don't have any defects and are manufactured up to par. Maybe the hospital cheaped out and bought inferior equipment. But don't buy for a moment that they didn't mess up.

      95% of people or something don't even wash their hands long enough to kill germs. Humans are really bad at this.

    64. Re: Politics by silentcoder · · Score: 3, Informative

      Africa is not a country. Its a continent you can fit the USA, China, India and the entire EU into with room to spare. Generalization like yours is just as inaccurate. I live in an African country and our infection rates are actually lower than the US (3 there 1 here and he was a traveler who got it in Liberia who died in quarantine here). Hell our quarantine protocols are probably stricter than yours because we don't have many libertarians so nobody thinks personal liberties extends to risking public safety.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    65. Re: Politics by silentcoder · · Score: 0

      Just one problem. Moderate dems imply the existence of liberal dems and there aren't any. You have a rightwing party called the Democrats and a bat shit insane party called the Republicans. The only actual liberal in DC is Bernie Sanders and he is an independent.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    66. Re: Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to have a good grasp of the American political spectrum. Just for clarity, yes the US really does have genuine Marxist / Leninist / Trotskyist / Maoist flavored communist parties. Bernie Sanders is a self-described socialist that caucuses with the Democrats, and is well to the left. There aren't a lot of moderate Democrats anymore since they have largely been driven from the party by the "progressives." There is no shortage of liberal or "progressive" Democrats, including actual communists that want to hold office in their lifetime. You can see Van Jones for an example of that. If the Republicans look "bat shit insane" to you it probably means you are well into loony left territory yourself since the Republicans are a liberal-right to center-right party committed to democracy, civil rights, and free enterprise.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    67. Re: Politics by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      That description seems rather odd when its used of the party that elected Michelle Bachman, Rick Perry, Todd "legitimate rape" Aiken, Rick Santorum and Sarah Palin (this list is highly incomplete but extremely representative). Civil liberties ? Sure if you only live by our moral interpretations. Freedom ? Sure if you mean religious freedom for one religion only. Small government - yes to the extreme where government is opposed even in the things that it's provably the only good solution (like healthcare) but not when its actually supposed to be kept out like women's reproductive systems, who you choose to fuck or who you can marry. And free market ? Only if you define that as corporate well fare and cronyist plutocracy. Of course on that last one the dems are exactly the same. Actual liberals would cut that overblown military budget (by about 70% which will still leave you comfortably spending 3 times as much as all other countries combined) before cutting anything else... Never seen either party propose that. Political spectrums aren't relative. The dems policies are just about identical to rightwing parties around the world. Obama is indistinguishable from Angela Merkel: widely considered the most conservative German leader in decades. Her party (which is considered highly conservative) follows almost exactly the same policies as the dems do. The reps arent right wing they are authoritarian, theocratic, anti-science nuttjobs.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    68. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, if we make all our weapons for left-handed people, then we can at least stall the rise of the planet of the apes.

    69. Re:Politics by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 1

      The appointment of an ebola czar was a response to critics from the crazy party that demanded the appointment of an ebola czar. Of course, that demand was only made so they could then criticize the President's choice of ebola czar. Next I expect to see them on the TV demanding to know why the President won't say we're at war with ebola.

    70. Re:Politics by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 2

      The U.S. system of medical education produces hypercompetitive egomaniacs, not good doctors.

    71. Re:Politics by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 2

      The common cold isn't really airborne either, it's spread mainly by fomite transmission, direct contact and droplet transmission. I think the problem is that people confuse droplet transmission and airborne transmission.Ebola can be spread by droplet transmission but does not survive long enough outside the body to be spread by fomites or true airborne transmission.And the average ebola patient feels rather too sick to walk around spreading germs like a person with a cold might.

    72. Re: Politics by sjames · · Score: 2

      No, they must have revenue to cover costs. That should include creating a cash reserve for bad years and unexpected expenses. They don't need profit.

    73. Re:Politics by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      There never will be an airborne strain of ebola, any more than elephants will evolve into flying grass eaters at some point in their future.
      Nothing short of the virus evolving past the point of being recognizable as ebola would make it a viable aerosolized vector. It's too fucking big, and not virulent enough.

    74. Re:Politics by DamnOregonian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Rhinovirus is actually "airborne", in that a pathologically significant amount of virus can in fact exist in aerosolized droplets, unlike ebola, which is almost 10x larger, on average, and much worse at replicating.

    75. Re: Politics by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      since the Republicans are a liberal-right to center-right party committed to democracy, civil rights, and free enterprise.

      I was actually kind of on-board with what you were saying right up until that... Then I shit my pants laughing.

    76. Re: Politics by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      It's nice that you have an opinion even if it is frivolously wrong.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    77. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do wish millenial idiots (thank god I'm only at the very beginning of the millenial marker, and not at all millenial depending on whose charting you believe) understood this simple truth - a truth that has not changed since the dawn of civilization:

      If you give people absurd amounts of money, they will find a use for it. However, this may have absolutely fuck all to do with the use you expect when you hand over galleons full of lucre.

      CDC has enough money. Czar is fucking bullshit. Stop fucking allowing John Q. Fuckward to fly from Liberia to Philadelphia.

      Problem. Fucking. Solved.

    78. Re: Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the condition permanent?

    79. Re: Politics by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Wait, are you saying Michelle Bachman and the others I mentioned are NOT republicans ? Or are you denying that the policies they push are republican policies ?
      Because if the latter - then that raises the rather odd question of why the hell the republican party keeps electing them ?
      If your REPRESENTATIVES are not representative... that's a bit of a problem isn't it ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    80. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > in the last fifteen years the CDC budget has doubled

      Think about the inflation when you provide numbers over 15 years. Since 2000, the budget is 188% bigger but inflation gives a 140% factor. The increase rate is given by (budget2000 - budget2014 * 140%) / budget2000 = 148%. Most increase is between 2000 and 2004 for NIH. After there is a decrease taking into account the inflation.

    81. Re:Politics by ray-auch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nigeria overall has less resources than US, sure, but compare the what they actually did and the resources they actually _used_.

      First, in Nigeria patient zero hit a good observant doctor with a clue, and instead of being sent home with antibiotics, was kept in hospital and restrained to prevent him leaving - all (I believe) before any official quarantine order or similar. The doctor that did that paid with her life. That action probably prevented an epidemic across Lagos, nothing to do with amount of resources and everything to do with one doctor being on the ball and prepared to fight the system to do the right thing.

      The official response included tracing close to 1000 primary and secondary contacts, 18,500 personal visits and 100s in isolation / quarantine. They had emergency presidential decrees, overriding the rights people would normally have (probably a lot less than in the US to start with) and extensive use of law enforcement agencies. Widespread advertising campaigns, banning shaking hands, kissing etc., Changing holy communion practices in churches. Closure of _all_ schools.

      The US doesn't appear to have done anything like that, despite its greater resources. Maybe Nigeria over-reacted, maybe US under-reacted and got lucky.

    82. Re:Politics by swb · · Score: 2

      I think blaming for-profit healthcare is certainly possible, but in this case I think it's too overbroad of a critique.

      It's reasonable to believe that the profit motive may actually have been a positive motivation -- the hospital makes money from ordinary health care issues, not life-threatening hemorrhagic fevers imported from Africa. Even a mini "outbreak" like this will have everyone who can avoid this hospital going someplace else, and the people with any choice in the matter have good insurance that pays well or are paying for elective procedures themselves. The customers they have left will be people without choice who pay less or not at all.

    83. Re:Politics by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      That's just endless buck-passing. The reality is that the kind of fuck ups that could happen, did happen, like a storyline from some cheap zombie/biothriller novel.

      And only two people got infected. Yes, errors in protocol happen, and can be expected to happen, and did happen, and will happen again. And only two people got infected. That is because of exactly what the CDC has said from the outset. Ebola is hard to get. Even with the errors in protocol that we know can, do, and will happen, particularly at the beginning when some people have there guard down, Ebola does not magically leap tall buildings to infect everyone within a thousand yards.

      More people in the US will get infected, and more will die. But if you want to reduce your risk of death, worrying about Ebola comes way further down the list than, for example, eating healthier, exercising, and keeping your blood pressure down by not worrying about insignificant threats like Ebola. Wash your hands, cover your mouth when you cough, and if it's wet and it isn't yours, don't touch it; but those are always good ideas. Now go on about your business and tell people to stop being panic-addled nitwits.

    84. Re:Politics by Talderas · · Score: 1

      But the CDC needs to handle the message to the public and proper guidance of control and treatment procedures; in this case they made enough mistakes that it muddled the issue, confusing the populace and creating mistrust and fear when trust and faith in the medical community is exactly what needs to happen right now.

      Muddied the issue is an understatement. When Tom Frieden goes out and says, "you cannot get ebola from travelling on public transportation," and then within 30 seconds says, "people with ebola shouldn't use public transportation to avoid infecting others," you have a big fucking problem with communication and message. I get what he was trying to say but the message is self-contradictory on the surface and that's what matters to most people that are hearing it.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    85. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Last I checked it wasn't the president who determines funding to government agencies, but Congress. And this stuff about "czars" is only because Congress refuses to approve any nominees for any position the President nominates, including the Surgeon General.

      The last 6 years in a nutshell:

      Step 1: POTUS tries to work with Congress.
      Step 2: Congress refuses to do anything.
      Step 3: Congressional says: "The President should show more leadership" (actual quote)
      Step 4: POTUS sidesteps Congress since they shoot down everything he suggests anyway
      Step 5: "This President is a lawless President who ignores the Constitution and abuses his power."
      Step 6: GOTO Step 1

      Think it's a joke? Think back just a couple months:
      July 30, 2014: We are suing the President for abuse of Executive Power in the implementation of the ACA. - Speaker of the House, John Boehner
      July 31, 2014: The President can and should use Executive Power to address the immigration crisis. - Speaker of the House, John Boehner

      So yes, it's about politics.
      But no, it isn't about power.
      This about sidestepping the do-nothing hypocrits in Congress.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    86. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The president would give the CDC more funding if the president gave funding. That is the purview of the congress. But, right, gubment.

    87. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      "If they had just stated the truth"

      You mean like the head of the CDC and various medical professional have been every day for the past 5 months?
      Seriously, just how far up there is your head?

      The fear isnt from a lack of effort on the parts of the experts, you twit. It's from the hyper saturation of the 24 hour news cycle with baseless and hysterical claims, where they spend 23.9 hours a day stoking fear, and let an expert speak rationally for the remaining 0.1 hours.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    88. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one remembers the bear patrol because they bravely did their jobs so effectively that we became complacent and forgetful. Plus we all carry rocks.

    89. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Civilian gun ownership isnt what freaks people out.
      Guns in the hands of those too immature, too irresponsible, or not technically proficient is what people fear.
      With cars we at least try to take steps prevent those sorts of people from getting behind the wheel.
      Few places in this country make any such efforts with guns.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    90. Re: Politics by caveqat101 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the president only spends monies given to him by the makers of the budget. The house creates the budget, the senate approves the houses proities, and the president spends. What part don't you get...so put the blame where it falls... Oh, yeah, Bengazzi.

    91. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      No, its not buckpassing.
      this is a big nation with a HUGE healthcare industry.
      Seriously, healthcare is over 20% of our national GDP.
      The CDC cannot be everywhere.
      Thats why they make guidelines for hospitals and healthcare workers to follow.

      The responsibility rests squarely and solely on the hospital that screwed up: the man said he had been in west africa in the outbreak zone and had a fever. they misdiagnosed him and ignored the red flags of his history.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    92. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not about solving problems but about power.

      You just summed up the Democratic party.

      He also just summed up the Republican Party.

      He just summed up politics

    93. Re: Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      given how much we overpay, that's not really a concern.
      in fact, nonprofits actually have a problem with maintaining nonprofit status, cause they have to find something to do with the money to keep form calling it profits.
      nonprofit hospital CEOs make more than the CEOs of for-profit hospitals.
      nonprofithospitals tend to be larger, more hospital beds, more equipment.
      theres lots of good articles on this stuff.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    94. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      I know reality has a liberal bias, but that's only because people like you refuse to live in reality.

      Obamacare IS Romneycare. Every key part of it came from the Heritage Foundations original idea created in the late 80s/early 90s, regardless of however much the HF has tried to disown their very own idea.

      The onyl reason Democrats ever opposed it in the past is because the best solution, a nationalized system, like every civilized country in the world that has a system better than ours, was what they actually wanted. The reason they got behind the HF's plan is because they realized compromise was the best way forward. But naturally, as soon as the left supported the right's plan, the right abandoned it, because they dont truly want compromise, and they can only define themselves and their platform in opposition to the left. they refuse to admit there might be areas of agreement, because the idea of admitting they agree with the opposition, ON ANYTHING, is anathema to them, and they fear how it will play in elections. its pitiful.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    95. Re:Politics by operagost · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm sure that if we had a totally socialist health care system, that woman wouldn't have gone out to shop and pick up take-out. I'm sure that the protective gear would have worked perfectly, just like other fine products of socialism like the Trabant. And I'm sure that there's no way any of them could have gotten on a plane, what with the threat of being gunned down at the airport in socialist Utopias like Cuba.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    96. Re: Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Bernie Sanders is one man, who yells at the democrats as much as he does Republicans. You dont seemt o udnerstand the very words you wrote. He is a registered independent, he only caucauses with the dems because they are the closest to the platform he stands on.

      And to be clear: he is not a MArxist, leninist, moaist. These things are not synonymous, not to each other, and not to the concept of socialism.
      And to be clear again: the democratic party is NOT run by progressives, and there IS a shortage of actual progressives.
      The democratic party of today is most like the Republican party of the 50s: it is a MODERATE party that is very pro-business.
      And if the Republicans are so pro-civil rights, why do they oppose equal rights for women and homosexuals under the law?
      Why do they repeatedly oppose the Equal Rights Amendment to codify it once and for all?
      If they're so pro Democracy, why do they try to stop their opposition from voting?
      Why do they insist repeatedly that we are not a democracy, and there is no actual "right to vote" ??

      In your view, both parties are too liberal? Given that over the past 40 years the entire country's political spectrum has shifted rightward, with BOTH parties becoming more conservative, how does that work?

      But once again, we confront the fact that you dont live in reality.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    97. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      libertarians are just conervatives afraid to own the term.

    98. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Reality calling.
      It misses you.
      Wishes you would return to it.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    99. Re:Politics by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      - A patient went to the ER with symptoms, and was sent home

      Yeah, this happens every day. It's not Ebola every day, but nonetheless. It's not unique to Texas. It just happened to happen there. It could have happened in any state with noticeable population.

      - People in government-mandated quarantine didn't honor the quarantine, and went to public places. It took armed guards to enforce the quarantine.

      I will not be the first, but may I say "duh"? And also "fucking duh"?

      - Two nurses, wearing the recommended protective equipment became infected, and are being treated now.

      But possibly not using it correctly, which has been an issue at that facility in the past.

      - One of the nurses went on an airline flight after treating the Ebola patient, in violation of a number of CDC policies

      Right back to people not being willing to consider others. An obvious result of the way we treat health care in this country.

      - Personnel treating the first ebola patient were in constant contact with hundreds of others, including other hospital patients

      That part is normal, too. But it shouldn't be. It's why hospitals are death boxes.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    100. Re:Politics by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      When it comes to high risk medical services

      It's all high-risk, because you never know what you'll come in contact with in a hospital. For one thing, it's been shown time and again that they are full of filthy things, like doctors' ties, and keyboards. For another, sick people go there. By definition, the scary stuff will be there. Unless, of course, people avoid seeking medical care due to concerns over cost.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    101. Re:Politics by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The real problem is that our "best health system" is actually an otherwise shitty health system with many very good doctors and nurses in it.

      There are also very many shitty doctors and nurses in it, and no means for screening them out because we're desperate for health care professionals. But since we actually don't treat them very well, not many people want to go into the line of work even if they're capable. We also require doctors to do certain things which could be done by lesser professionals (thanks to the AMA) which exacerbates the situation. It won't be long before most of these assholes are replaced by expert systems, and they really should have been already but the initial diagnosis still requires a human to input stuff into the machine. When we get to the three probes, they're toast.

      I don't mean to imply that they are all bad, or anything. But there's lots of 'em who don't give a flying fuck about you, and just want to get you out of their hair. You can tell by how they treat you. If they do all the typical depersonalization shit they are literally taught in medical school, it's about a paycheck.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    102. Re:Politics by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The parts that you think of as Obamacare are working out very well too.

      It's working no worse than before for me. Before Obamacare, there was nobody to take my insurance. After Obamacare, same thing. Some people are now having this experience and paying more for the privilege, however.

      But, I do admit that the intellectual conception of Obamacare came from the right wing think tanks. And that makes sense, it's ultimately very libertarian / free market oriented. They just couldn't get it implemented.

      You mean it's oriented towards crony corporatism. Remember, you have no choice but to secure health care through an approved insurance provider, unless you are rich and then the laws do not apply to you. There is nothing free market about it whatsoever.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    103. Re:Politics by operagost · · Score: 0

      The leftists are strong with this thread. I'm sorry that I posted now. I could have helped more by undoing this ridiculous partisan moderation that posting my pithy comments.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    104. Re:Politics by operagost · · Score: 1

      Appointing a political hack as "Ebola Czar" to shut the GOP up is the real world version of telling everyone to calm the fuck down and go the fuck home.

      That's an interesting strategy.

      1. Prove you're incompetent by appointing an unqualified person to an important leadership role during a crisis.
      2. ???
      3. Stay calm and PROFIT!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    105. Re: Politics by operagost · · Score: 1

      Nice straw man. You have a lot to learn about liberty, but that goes without saying.

      Enjoy your next coup. Maybe the next dictator will be the one who brings prosperity.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    106. Re:Politics by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      a horse with stripes is usually just a horse with stripes... unless you're standing in the middle of a zebra pen, or the Serengeti.

      sure the doctors were aware that ebola was a risk... but surely not in dallas.

    107. Re:Politics by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      And to think, I was promised better healthcare.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    108. Re: Politics by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      they are listed as non-profit. doesn't mean they aren't profit driven.

      there's some whole controversy over how non-profit hospitals in the US are. something about administrative compensation or whatnot.

    109. Re:Politics by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because not having a licence will surely stop someone from getting into a car and driving it!

      The stupid is strong with this one.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    110. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CDC is not allowed to just show up and enforce protocols.
      States Rights!

    111. Re: Politics by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      apparently executive pay is 7 figure at some non-profit hospitals, and some of them have billions in revenue. they don't need profit, but it's a nice perk.

    112. Re: Politics by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      How cute. I get accused of a strawman for responding TO a strawman and the accusation itself CONTAINS a strawman.
      I didn't disagree with the main point of the post- so I would have had nothing to GAIN by a strawman, he's RIGHT about what he said about the USA, he was just wrong to talk about Africa by a few paltry stereotypes. I thought I'd remind him that this is hardly true - since Africa is massive and there really IS no common threads to it. Sure there are countries that have had dictators and countries that have had coups - but this is not a typically African thing since there's no such THING as a typically African thing - the idea is ludicrous - there are literally THOUSANDS of cultures and languages on this continent with very little in common.
      Do you seriously think there can be anything sensible in thinking as if Egypt and Kenya are similar ?
      Let alone Kenya and Nigeria - which are on opposite sides of the continent, share NO common languages (unless you count English), have very little cross-trade and no shared cultures and completely different histories.
      Those countries are FURTHER away from each other than the USA is from Crimea !

      And my country has never had a dictator. We did have colonial voting restrictions for a lot of our history but those were scrapped in 1994 and we have had only ELECTED leaders from a parliamentary democracy for 20 years.
      We may complain about those leaders sometimes, but they are beholden to a constitution they won't dare touch (which is considered the most liberal in the world - moreso than the American one) and even the worst of them haven't been anything close to dictators. Frauds and thieves yes, but YOU have plenty of those yourself.

      You try to school me about liberty when you no literally NOTHING about the place you have such strong opinions about ?! You may as well be making declarations about the political situation on the fourth planet orbiting alpha centauri since you're about equally ignorant on both topics.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    113. Re:Politics by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      reminds me of a TED talk by david deutsch in a remark about global warming... and a bit about the remarks regarding 9/11.

      Deutsch said that it was already too late to avert a crisis, because the cost of rectifying our behavior to solve the crisis of global warming would be a crisis in and of itself... and by all accounts, Bin Laden's investment of millions of dollars to carry out the attack, has cost the world economy in the order of magnitude of billions. he had probably a 3 order of magnitude return on his investment.

      We all know that Ebola isn't something to be scared of, but it is something to be wary of. The CDC saying the american public has nothing to fear at all, is true, but the public doesn't believe. The Ebola Czar being appointed and repeating that message might make the public take note and maybe believe there's nothing to fear. This might not do anything additional to stop the Ebola crisis, but that doesn't mean it won't do anything. widespread ebola panic, would be a crisis in and of itself.

      A big part of this crisis in West Africa is the chilling effect it has had on the economies... in countries that can ill-afford it. local businesses don't get business, no tourism, people are worried about talking to their neighbors... and everybody is scared. I wouldn't be surprised if more people died of starvation than ebola because of this outbreak.

    114. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, out of a very long list of possible ways to die, a plane crash sounds like it might be a lot faster and less painful than many others I can think of.

    115. Re:Politics by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      i don't know what GP's point was... but i need/want to know more about the monkey handedness. WHY ISN'T MORE BEING DONE?!?!?!

    116. Re: Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read the GP again just to be sure... Exactly where does it say that Africa is a country? He did talk about "African nations" so I don't think he meant to imply that it was just one country to begin with. And aside from the fact that he took the case of these 3 countries affected by the epidemic and made a generalization to the whole continent, I think most of his points are valid... Except for the part about America being well prepared to contain such an epidemic, but then again, the recent Texas clusterfuck was one single incident, which statistically does not represent all that much.

    117. Re:Politics by ilparatzo · · Score: 1

      Sounds a lot like our education system and the teachers and administrative employees that work them, apart from the paycheck bit.

      Appears to be a pattern ...

    118. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CDC was in active control of the loop on some of the issues.

      Is it ok for folks to travel.
      What protective gear is ok.

      They were in passive control for things like training standards, number of caregivers at risk, etc.

    119. Re:Politics by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2

      Er, no. That's not what they have been saying. They have been saying things like sitting right next to a person with Ebola on a plane is very low risk

      But that is observed fact. Nobody on the plane with Patrick Sawyer was infected, even though Sawyer was already expressing symptoms and collapsed on arriving in Lagos.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    120. Re:Politics by Straif · · Score: 1

      The suits previously recommended (at the time of the Texas incident) as part of the CDC protocols did not even cover all exposed skin. They weren't the suits you see in movies used in research facilities, they were little more than glorified aprons and face shields (actually they only recommended goggles and face masks). It was quite easy to be fully and properly dressed according to CDC protocols and still be exposed. The nurses even complained about exposed skin on the head and neck and were told to just use some tape to cover the neck area a bit better.

      Outside of the equipment guidelines the procedural guidelines were also extremely lacking.

      The new guidelines are closer to what you see in movies and TV but none of those were in place when the Texas hospital was asking the CDC how they should proceed. So according to the old CDC guidelines it was very possible for nurses following all procedures to the letter and still get exposed, hence the revamped protocols.

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    121. Re:Politics by Straif · · Score: 1

      When has POTUS ever truly tried to work with congress. He gives speeches saying his is willing to work with congress, hits the late nite circuit to talk about how he's trying, but even members of his own party say he rarely talks to anyone in the House or Senate and rarely puts anything concrete down on paper.

      Saying you want to feed all the hungry children is easy to do in a speech but it's in the number crunching to make it a reality where the hard work gets done and even fellow Dems say he's not big on the actual details of implementing his grand ideas. Then when things don't get done because he provides absolutely no guidance in how to achieve his goals and won't even work with his own parties representatives he starts a second round of public appearances to pass the buck.

      Several times he's even been criticized by Democrat Senators and Congressmen for sabotaging his own proposals and putting his own party members into corners by moving the goalposts last minute beyond what they had already worked out with opposition members.

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    122. Re: Politics by Straif · · Score: 1

      The President usually submits a budget to Congress (this is an outline of his priorities), the Senate and House both propose their own budgets (they can use the President's proposals as a base or not) and vote independently of each other. Finally the House and Senate budgets are reconciled to create a final federal budget.

      In the last 6 years:
      - Obama's budget's have failed every time they were brought to the senate floor for a vote, usually without getting a single 'yea'.
      - The Senate, under Harry Reid has only passed 1 budget even though budget require a simple majority to pass.
      - The House has passed a budget almost every year (but since this written by Republican's has little chance of passing in the Senate in it unaltered form)

      Because of the failure of the 3 interested parties to get along the US federal budget has been essentially run by a series of Continuing resolutions since Obama took office.

      The good side of this is that this might lead to an end of omnibus budgets and return to the days of more compartmentalized process. It harder to hide money when you pass budgets in smaller chunks as opposed to one large all encompassing bill with everyone's pork added on top.

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    123. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CDC is not allowed to clamp down on hospitals without being invited by the Governor.

      States Rights!

    124. Re:Politics by quantaman · · Score: 1

      If having a Czar will concentrate more power in their hands then a Czar is what they'll create. We already have the CDC. If this were about solving disease problems then the President would give the CDC more funding if they needed it. This is not about solving problems but about power.

      Isn't that the job of congress?

      Besides, creating a Czar isn't about concentrating power, it's about appearing pro-active. If anyone asks what they're doing to fight Ebola they can say "hey, we're taking it so seriously we created a special position just to oversee the response!"

      --
      I stole this Sig
    125. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, we already have a "Czar" for this sort of thing. Her name is Dr. Nicole Lurie. That's the real reason we don't need a "Czar" - we already have one.

      Secondly, the president can't give the CDC more funding. That's Congress's job.

      Thirdly, in the last fifteen years the CDC budget has doubled, so they already have plenty of money. In fact, they have too much money, which has allowed them to ignore their primary mission and go off and do things like stump for gun control, study why lesbians get fat and gay men don't, and determine most monkeys are right handed.

      Wow, just wow. I can't tell if you're an uninformed conservative, climate-change-denying asshole . . . or if you're a liberal shill trolling to get reasonable people on your side. So hard to tell. Glad someone found this informative.

    126. Re:Politics by QuantumPion · · Score: 1

      And you being modded +5 Insightful while the parent is modded -1 troll summed up Slashdot. :)

    127. Re:Politics by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, that license is pretty worthless in terms of filtering out idiots. This is despite the fact that a Car license actually includes a proficiency test. There are plenty of self-centered morons that have Car licenses.

      It's not an effective filtering process because there would be too much backlash if it were. Too many people would be inconvenienced.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    128. Re:Politics by jedidiah · · Score: 0

      What do you expect when you constantly tell people they shouldn't have to pay for medical care? Most people don't have a very high regard for "free stuff" or even "cheap stuff".

      If you treat medical professionals better, the masses might have to give up some of their Starbucks lattes and you just can't have that.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    129. Re:Politics by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > It should be said that most of the mistakes here were by the hospital in Texas, not the CDC.

      It was the CDC that told the nurse that she could fly.

      As a trained professional, she should have been able to make her own evaluation and not depend on some government beaurocrat. She should have figured out on her own that it was a bad idea to fly.

      However, she did in fact get the OK from the CDC.

      It was Texas that implemented more proactive travel bans.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    130. Re: Politics by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Non-profit just means that expenses are reasonably close to revenues, and there is limits to how much money they can sock away for future expenses and capital; basically that means instead of paying a dividend to stockholders that anyone can become, it all must go into bonuses or a liquid asset. We have two non-profit hospitals and they are constantly expanding and buying and selling property like some kind of malignancy because they can't hold assets as money. There is no inherent goodness involved with being a non-profit and much less inhibition to badness because of the erroneously perceived goodness.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    131. Re:Politics by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      It's pretty simple and obvious really.

      Someone with Ebola is an infection vector even if the train they rode on is not.

      This is why there are 2 nurses infected. An Ebola patient is a very effective infection vector. Nurses are the single highest risk group in this thing. They have to deal with the blood and the vomit produced by patients in quarantine.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    132. Re:Politics by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      This guy is a project manager. He doesn't have to be an ubergeek. He just has to be able to manage the ubergeeks and run a project plan.

      I should not have to explain this sort of thing on Slashdot.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    133. Re:Politics by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I think they picked the Czar they did for his marketing skills, not his medical skills.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    134. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then the President would give the CDC more funding if they needed it.

      Congress controls the federal budget not the president. The president only proposes a budget each year.

    135. Re:Politics by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      It's a pointless task to shut the Republicans up. If the wind is blowing East they will complain that it should be blowing West. If it changes to West, they complain that it should have changed sooner. If It was East and suddenly blew West without their complaints being heard, they will complain that it was a UNILATERAL change in wind direction and OMG "the One" is acting like an emperor from Kenya -- this was foretold in Revelations.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    136. Re:Politics by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      LOL.

      It only needs to be explained if he voted for Herman Cain or that governor from Texas who wanted a double-walled electrified fence with shoot to kill orders on the border with Mexico.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    137. Re:Politics by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Little of what you stated was factual.
      When has he ever tried to work with Congress you ask? TRY EVERY TIME.
      From the begining, he has tried to work with Congress.
      From the begining, the GOP has been dedicated to complete and total opposition to everything the Prez says.

      The idea that he wont work with the GOP is a farce. Yes, he has sabotaged his own agenda...in order to try and make a compromise with the other side.
      But every time he offer an olive branch they petulently slap it away, because to them the definition of compromise is "we get everything we want, or else."

      Stimulus:

      Before he took office, Obama began outlining the contours of the federal stimulus package he wanted to get passed, reached out to Republican leaders (then in the minority in both houses of Congress) for their ideas, and threw in a bunch of tax cuts to draw in GOP support for the legislation. “I think he’s already been listening to the suggestions we’ve made,” Mitch McConnell said after initial talks. [..] while Obama did have the stronger hand, he was willing to make concessions to gain passage of the bill, and ended up having to do exactly that. To earn the bare minimum of Republican support needed to get the bill past a Senate filibuster, the White House had to swallow steep cuts to state education programs and other liberal priorities.

      The Republicans, meanwhile, were negotiating in bad faith. No matter what Obama threw at them, the House GOP leadership had already decided to oppose him. As NBC noted in its piece, the strategy they adopted from before the beginning of the Obama administration was to fight Obama on everything and work to retake Congress in 2010. Then-Minority Whip Eric Cantor successfully corralled every single member of the House Republican caucus into voting against the stimulus package. “We’re not here to cut deals and get crumbs and stay in the minority for another 40 years,” Cantor said at the time. Only three Senate Republicans – moderates all, one of whom officially became a Democrat months later – voted for the stimulus.

      Healthcare:

      Largely absent from the discussion of the Affordable Care Act is the fact that this “big government socialist takeover of the health care industry” is actually a pretty conservative piece of legislation. And even less remarked upon is the degree to which Obama sought out Republican input for his healthcare proposals.

      The road from vague notions of “healthcare reform” to the concrete reality of the Affordable Care Act was marked by disappointment after disappointment by the White House’s progressive allies, who swallowed hard as pie-in-the-sky dreams of single-payer dissolved into the tepid hope of a “public option,” which dissolved further into grudging acceptance of a healthcare law that has a long GOP pedigree and was pioneered by the former Republican governor of Massachusetts. That pedigree is the reason why the law was studded with Republican healthcare reform ideas – something Republicans refuse to admit as they claim that the law was drafted without their input. That’s also part of the reason why the Republicans, as yet, have not coalesced around an alternative to the Affordable Care Act – everything they come up with ends up looking like Obamacare.

      President Obama sought out the Republicans and asked them for ideas during the drafting process. “I believe they’re making an honest and overt effort to deal with Republicans,” Rep. Mike Castle said at the time. (Castle would go on to lose the 2010 Delaware Senate primary to living Tea Party caricature Christine O’Donnell.) Over and over, again and again, Obama tried to bring Republicans to the table and offered compromises on healthcare. And each time he was met with the same answer: no.

      “What they want isn’t a bill that incorporates their ideas,” Ezra Klei

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    138. Re: Politics by MacAndrew · · Score: 1

      Thx for the informative digression. :-) On the airwaves in the States we have heard plenty of broadsides against "Africa," likewise against Muslims everywhere. It gets old.

    139. Re:Politics by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Some good doctors slip through, though. Mostly where the uncorrelated sets of 'hypercompetitive egomaniacs' and 'good doctors' intersect.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    140. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your argument is that if we only paid physicians more, they'd start doing their jobs better? Double the median wage of the US for the least well paid specialty isn't enough... we need to give up even more of our money or they'll hold our health for ransom?

      Yeah, it really sounds like it's us treating them poorly! Talk about Stockholm Syndrome...

    141. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed! But I want to know why lesbian monkeys are skinny and shoot left handed.

    142. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is one dead guy really a basis for a "State pf Emergency"?

    143. Re:Politics by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Which is why they appointed a political hack, who was responsible for doling out stimulus bribes to the top campaign contributors. He was wildly successful at THAT, as these folks all came back and ponied up huge dollars again in 2012.

      He knew nothing about job creation - but he was great at fabricating populist bulls** like "2.5 million jobs created or saved!" When, in fact, no such numbers were ever tracked, the BLS does not track any number like this, and five years later the analysis of the stimulus proves it was a complete and utter failure with respect to job creation, infrastructure projects, shovel ready jobs - all of it. Big surprise, as the template for the Stimulus was Clinton's big payoff for getting elected, er "Stimulus".

      Well, he knows nothing about Ebola either. But money will be allocated. And the midterms are looming. And it's extremely important that the Ebola money go to good, loyal party members. So he's the perfect choice in every way.

      And please, PEOPLE this has NOTHING to do with anybody's party affiliation.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    144. Re:Politics by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Except the facts say year after year that the places with the most restrictive gun laws... have the highest rates of gun crime.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    145. Re:Politics by swb · · Score: 1

      The CDC cannot be everywhere.

      I don't want them everywhere -- I do want them in the very few places that have Ebola patients, though.

    146. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to add the step where they complain about his governmental overreach by creating an Ebola Czar.

    147. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looking back at SARS we see normal quarantine work in all but 3 places. Houston failed when the ER doctor wasn't told/didn't ask the patient and come form a country with Ebola and sent him home. Then the ER had to deal with a full blown case of Ebola instead of having 2 day to get ready.

      The nurse called the CDC both times before she went got on an airplane. The CDC hadn't told everyone how to handle things.

      Still we only had 2 cases that were well controlled and appear will make a full recovery. Was it the best outcome: NO, but it was a good out come.

    148. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol!!! Don't bring facts into an argument like this....just doesn't work.

    149. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please understand that Texas Health Resources, the company that operates the hospital in Dallas, is a non-profit.

    150. Re:Politics by amorsen · · Score: 1

      Would you have preferred that Tom Frieden lied? What would you have liked him to say?

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    151. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sums up politics today

    152. Re:Politics by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Yet the Republicans always rabbit on about how Socialists are a threat to freedom and independence?

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    153. Re:Politics by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Cold, I don't consider part c plans (your first link) to be fraudulent but I'm amazed to see a Republican back plans that have these characteristics:

      * Part C plans cost 15% more than Medicare
      * There is no evidence that Part C plans are better than Medicare

      Part C could have been interesting if the first line was different. What if they cost 10% less and there wasn't evidence that medicare was better? Hmm, maybe? But the Republicans didn't set them up that way. They set them up to cost more. The best thing that can be said about them is that they offered free health club memberships. But then we'd have a Republican claiming that the government should be spending $1,500 / year to get seniors health club memberships. Are you seriously going to say that?

      The fraud prevention has to do with Medicare fraud being rampant. The law was setup, by congress, so that providers had a right to participate in the programs. So Medicare would shutdown a fraudulent biller and they could apply to be covered the next day. Then, by law, Medicare would have to accept them into the program (it was a right). Now, Medicare has more power to prevent this type of fraud. This is a good thing. Don't you agree?

      I'm unaware of the right abandoning Obamacare. It's a great idea. It used to be that if you wanted to start a business or continue to run a small business, you would have to go find health insurance on a market that would discriminate harshly against you. Now, you go to one big market and get good rates. So small businesses are easier to open and more affordable to open. It's really just trying to prevent a Democrat from getting credit for something good that is making the right hate Obamacare, not the policy, which is great.

    154. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should take a look at the Ebola Reston strain before you start dealing in absolutes.

    155. Re:Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely no evidence of it because it takes very strict protocol and testing conditions to confirm an airborne vector. You need 100% quarantined individuals who's only contact is the air they breathe, nothing more. Every single infection right now has a direct link to the person touching something infected by ebola, there is no evidence of airborne transmission (I've searched, it doesnt exist). You find me a study that shows human patients being infected while quarantined properly without any physical contact with infectious material or persons. The state of things in the current African nations battling ebola is not conducive to such experiments.

      And you're quite wrong anyway. Its people who say that there is absolutely no evidence and there never will be that are the fucktards. The OP is saying there is currently no evidence of it, and until you can produce any that statement is correct, regardless of your profanity (which is oh so convincing).

      fucktard.

    156. Re:Politics by CHIT2ME · · Score: 0

      Actually, the President doesn't have the power to give more funding to the CDC. That is the responsibility of Congress. You remember them, don't you? The ones who have been on vacation since July. The ones who haven't done a damn thing since 2010. The Repubs (you know that group of hard core right wing religious nuts with a dash of anarchist tea baggers) who control the house are hard at work trying to scare the bejesus out of their less than best educated base. They need a Czar (otherwise known as a "moron manager") to soothe their fears. They will never believe that they are more likely to be struck by lightning (or beaten to death by a troop of girl scouts) without this "moron manager" to tell them so. So, here we are, with a total of one (that's 1 for the morons) and two nurses who where unprepared to nurse him safely, affected with ebola here in the USA. WTF, have we become a nation of morons to be ministered to by morons who have no other plans than to try to be elected by their moron base in the midterm elections? We really have to increase our spending on schools and education, because, this situation is untenable!!!

      --
      My karma is bad. Don't get too close!!!
    157. Re:Politics by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Appointing a political hack as "Ebola Czar" to shut the GOP up is the real world version of telling everyone to calm the fuck down and go the fuck home.

      That's an interesting strategy.

      1. Prove you're incompetent by appointing an unqualified person to an important leadership role during a crisis.

      2. ???

      3. Stay calm and PROFIT!

      Dude, apparently I was quite unclear.

      The Czar's job is to do nothing that requires brains.

      To beat Ebola you need three things:

      1) A strong medical system. Ebola death rates are 10% in countries where every hospital is on the lookout for symptomatic patients, and has the budget to properly treat their symptoms.

      2) Enforced quarantine of patients.

      3) Some smart guys working on the problem medically. Your vaccine researchers are in this bit..

      We have 1) and 2) in the US. The problem in Texas Presbyterian is that nobody took Ebola seriously. African states are fucked by Ebola because they can;t afford 1), and the people they'd need to enforce the quarantine (ie: cops) are always amenable to being bribed.

      A political hack is actually the only person who could solve the Texas Presbyterian problem, because he is best-placed to bully any CDC employee of hospital that balks at implementing the strict protocols required for dealing with Ebola. "What! You are seriously thinking of authorizing a potentially infected nurse to go on vacation within the 21-day period! No. And if you ever bother me with such a stupid question again I'll have a press conference declaring that you are a fucking moron, and my good friend the President will be there."

      A political hack can't do 3), but unless Congress passes a whole bunch of money to actually research the disease the Ebola Czar couldn't contribute much to that anyway.

    158. Re: Politics by kenh · · Score: 1

      Not true.

      http://www.bostonmagazine.com/...

      For example, Russia outlaws gun ownership, yet has a higher murder rate than the US...

      --
      Ken
    159. Re:Politics by El+Puerco+Loco · · Score: 1

      Droplet/aeresol transmission is not the same as airborne transmission. Airborne transmission occurs with suspended dried droplet nuclei. Colds spread more efficiently by fomite transmission.

    160. Re:Politics by towermac · · Score: 1

      BTW, what's with the 'Czar' thing? Does that annoy anyone else as much as me? Did we run out of English words to describe the leader of a temporary task force?

      How about Secretary? That's his job: To relay messages and take notes and present reports to his boss on what the other people in charge are doing. He himself is in charge of nothing.

      That's exactly what Obama might need, so as to not be blindsided by Ebola again. Secretary of Ebola (hopefully a temporary position). Can't hurt. Good move, Obama.

      Why can't we just say that? Stupid Czar. Reactionary Obama...

    161. Re:Politics by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      What do you expect when you constantly tell people they shouldn't have to pay for medical care? Most people don't have a very high regard for "free stuff" or even "cheap stuff".

      The US Medical system puts patients and doctors in an adversarial relationship from the start.

      The doctor in the US operates as a gatekeeper for medical services. Another word for gatekeeper is guard, and they arm guards for a reason.

      I was chatting with a doctor who was talking about how owning a gun increases the risk of suicide, so he was thinking about asking patients about whether they owned one, but was concerned that patients might resent being asked. So, we had a bit of a chat about why patients lie to their doctors.

      I know somebody who needs a lot of chronic medical care. They've come to greatly resent doctors in general, though not 100% of the time. The doctor basically wants to be in the role of the final-decision-maker. The US legal system ensures that if the doctor doesn't take this role he gets thoroughly screwed because if he prescribes a treatment course which isn't by-the-book he gets sued. On the other hand, the patient might not agree with the course of treatment and might want a different one. However, in the US medications and often even tests are illegal to sell without a prescription, so the patient's options end up being to either do what the doctor wants, convince them to do something else, find another doctor they can convince, or forgo treatment altogether. The patient is automatically going to resent the doctor for having this choice foisted upon them, even though the doctor didn't personally create the US medical system (though the AMA certainly helps to perpetuate it). Due to the whole liability thing, often the best way to "convince" a doctor to go with a different treatment is to manipulate them by controlling their access to information or lying to them.

      The thing is, it is also in the patient's best interests to get frank advice from their doctor. The problem is that in the US we don't offer the patient of receiving frank advice and making an unrestricted treatment decision.

      Then money becomes a factor as well, since insurance companies want to pay for the treatment option that is statistically the most likely to cost them the least - ie the patient gets better as fast as possible at the lowest cost. So, they get a say in treatment as well. I think that the folks paying for treatment ought to have a say in the matter, but there has to be a way to do this without taking ALL control away from the patient. If nothing else they should be able to pay for their own pills maybe with a credit for whatever the standard of care would typically cost.

      IMO doctors shouldn't be gatekeepers except in limited circumstances. I'm fine with them being gatekeeper for antibiotics (even though it seems like many fail at that job today), since abuse of antibiotics is a public health problem. I'm fine with them having responsibility for reporting epidemics and such - anything that is a true public health problem and not merely a personal one. Otherwise, if somebody wants a test then as long as they understand the risks they ought to be able to pay for a test just like they can pay to get a tattoo. All medications should be available over-the-counter. By all means still have a system of prescriptions so that insurers can decide when to pay for medications, but if somebody wants to take something that is contra-indicated, that should be their right.

      Maybe there is an in-between solution. However, if you want people to stop resenting doctors then you need to make them feel like they're the ones actually in control of their treatment.

    162. Re:Politics by wed128 · · Score: 1

      Ok, i'll bite. If not here, where are 'good doctors' bred?

      *disclaimer -- my wife is a nurse at a transplant hospital, which has patients that fly in from countries all over the world that have inferior healthcare systems*

    163. Re:Politics by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      If the CDC had descended on the hospital like a ton of bricks and the first inkling of Ebola they might have prevented most of that from happening then people would be complaining about Federal overreach.

      No argument there, but this is really broken. This is a matter of interest to everybody in the country - it really can't be left up to the local hospital to have the final say. It makes no sense to have a system where New York is super-rigorous about Ebola but we'll go ahead and let Oklahoma become a huge pool of carriers because they don't want to spend too much money on this. Since the US has no restrictions on travel/etc internally the US population is going to be as well-off as the lowest level of care we give to somebody who is infected. Your million-dollar-a-year health insurance plan is worthless if some guy making minimum wage shows up to the local fast food joint and sneezes on your burger despite being symptomatic with Ebola because he doesn't have health insurance and paid sick time.

    164. Re: Politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The poster is talking about the United States.

      Russia is an entirely different case. Russia is much like Detroit, where the Mafia, the City Government, the Labor Unions, and the major political party are all one and the same thing....

    165. Re: Politics by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      in fact, nonprofits actually have a problem with maintaining nonprofit status, cause they have to find something to do with the money to keep form calling it profits.

      That's a fake problem. There's no shortage of things to do with the money. One hospital I know opened a clinic in the bad part of town, with free services. There aren't many limits on the profit they make. They just can't pay it to the owners as dividends. That's about the only real no-no.

    166. Re:Politics by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      When has he ever tried to work with Congress you ask? TRY EVERY TIME. From the begining, he has tried to work with Congress.

      I'm sorry, but no. Unilaterally writing bills and expecting your opponent to come on board when you give the smallest of nods to their ideology is not working together. He said it himself: "They can come along, but they have to sit in the back". The Democrats (including Obama) assumed the 2008 election was a mandate on their policies (rather than the anti-Bush movement it really was). As such, they had no intention of giving serious attention or equal time to any Republican ideas.

      But every time he offer an olive branch they petulently slap it away, because to them the definition of compromise is "we get everything we want, or else."

      It's very ironic that you say that, because I see the exact thing happening on the other side. And if you go by what actually _passed_ into law, Obama is entirely getting his way, as we've seen no substantial spending cuts (Mandatory spending remains entirely untouched), and taxes have been hiked about 3 times (once in Obamacare, once at the fiscal cliff crisis, and I forget the other time).

      while Obama did have the stronger hand, he was willing to make concessions to gain passage of the bill, and ended up having to do exactly that. To earn the bare minimum of Republican support needed to get the bill past a Senate filibuster, the White House had to swallow steep cuts to state education programs and other liberal priorities.

      The _entirety_ of education spending is a rounding error in the federal budgets. Look at the amount of dollars raised from the tax increases. Then look at the amount of dollars that came from reduced spending. And you'll clearly see why the Republicans balk and demand more concessions. This isn't a 50-50 effort. Obama wants 5% spending reduction and 95% tax hikes. And he's getting it.

      âoeWeâ(TM)re not here to cut deals and get crumbs and stay in the minority for another 40 years,â Cantor said at the time.

      I don't blame him after observing the last 6 years of one-sided partisan billcraft.

      President Obama sought out the Republicans and asked them for ideas during the drafting process.

      Again, you're nuts. The Republican ideas were summarily rejected. He was giving lip services at best. You forget this bill was written while the Dems held a supermajority in Congress. The final bill was 100% written behind closed doors by Democrats, _not_ a bipartisan committee.

    167. Re:Politics by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, aerosol transmission absolutely is one of the methods of airborne transmission. You are correct that droplet nuclei are another. The common cold is however both. Of course they spread more efficiently via fomite transfer. A volume of air is big, very big- especially when you're the size of a viral nuclei or an aerosol droplet full of thousands of virus. You argued the common cold isn't really airborne, but it really is. That's all I was saying.

    168. Re:Politics by tsotha · · Score: 1

      Wow. Just wow. I can't tell if... oh wait, no, it's actually pretty obvious you're just an idiot.

  2. Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look, every idiot out there wants to see a "response". Take anyone below the 90th percentile a they won't have the intellectual ability to process any probability less than 1 in 4. It's like the entire airline screening process - people feel safer if they see someone doing something. In reality it does little or no good, but until you figure out how to instantly make people smarter and less gullible you will get irrational panic and calls to "do something."

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 0

      Wow, that sounded terribly elitist - sorry, it's been a long day. Seriously, though, we can debate all we want but human nature is going to push us to these irrational conclusions. I've learned to (mostly) ignore it and get on with life.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    2. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      it does little or no good

      There must be an optimal level of security for any given threat beyond which additional measures don't lower the probability of it succeeding. You could quantify this for known threats but not for unknown ones (you don't have an appropriate prior). That is why security tends to involve shutting stable doors after horses have bolted. Bomb in luggage? Put luggage in blast-proof containers in the hold and screen it with x-ray equipment. Bomb in your shoe? Take your shoes off, put them onto a tray and pass them through an x-ray camera. Bomb in a cosmetic bottle? Limit the amount of fluids (to a theoretical maximum) and put everything into clear plastic bags so security can see them.

      There are probably a hundred people out there right now trying to think up new ways to blow up an aircraft but at least they're being made to think about it. Without security everyone and their mother would be packing C4 into their underpants.

    3. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you but I must point out that the public discourse on this, at least online, is _significantly_ more irrational in the USA than it is elsewhere.

    4. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      In fairness, some people do feel better when they see something being done by some sort of authority figure. Even a scrawny 19-year old rent-a-cop armed with a radio can make a substantial difference to people's feeling of well being (in one way or the other...)

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    5. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "people feel safer if they see someone doing something"
      That something is called "leadership". Even if the response is going to be "we aren't going to do anything," our leaders have a responsibility to make it crystal clear why we aren't doing anything and the issues if we do something else instead. Education. This is not what we've been getting. We've been getting a flippant and chaotic message, and whatever they end up saying will 'never happen' happens anyway. Who's being irrational again?

    6. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know anyone on either side of the aisle who wanted an 'ebola czar', btw. We wanted a consistent, firm, and coherent form of leadership, regardless of what our actual response turns out to be, expressing facts that won't end up becoming untrue days later.

    7. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, that's not leadership, it's damage control and/or preemptive excuses.

      Do you remember the last time Obama declared that we "don't have a plan" because the conditions in Syria were complex and required addition time to evaluate the various options? Yeah, that honesty in leadership went over well, despite the fact that he made it clear that evaluating what was an exceptionally complex set of conditions could go horribly wrong if played incorrectly.

      Ebola is just another disease without a (nearly guaranteed) cure. There are others out there, right now, which we know even less about (enterovirus, for example). This one is headline grabbing because you bleed out of your asshole. It's like "Ow, My Balls" but grosser for daytime shock newscasts. I mean, really - a facility takes on a patient with inadequate resources to do so, and fails. We're all somehow surprised.

      Instead of stating that hospitals are, generally, bad places to isolate transmitted diseases and recommending facilities and transport set up for such work, we go into shit storm finger pointing mode and massive over-reaction. That's not leadership. That's damage control.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    8. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

      Look - if there's one thing that humans need, it's one ass to kick. Some dude to be the top of the pyramid. A face of the effort. A single point for organization. President, CEO, Principal - it doesn't matter the organization, you need a person in charge. And a person to take the fall if things go wrong. What you want is someone organizing and coordinating all of the response to the epidemic (of three). You can call him a Czar, a Director, or whatever - you still want *somebody* in charge. And somebody to fire (and/or crucify in public) if things go wrong.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    9. Re: Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Kvathe · · Score: 1

      "Without security everyone and their mother would be packing C4 into their underpants." I know I'm just breathlessly waiting for the day when I can blow up a bunch of people without airline security getting in the way--that stuff is such a hassle.

    10. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look - if there's one thing that humans need, it's one ass to kick. Some dude to be the top of the pyramid. A face of the effort. A single point for organization. President, CEO, Principal - it doesn't matter the organization, you need a person in charge. And a person to take the fall if things go wrong. What you want is someone organizing and coordinating all of the response to the epidemic (of three). You can call him a Czar, a Director, or whatever - you still want *somebody* in charge. And somebody to fire (and/or crucify in public) if things go wrong.

      Yeah!!! Because, as we all know, publicly crucifying someone is the only rational way to handle this issue! At the very least, it just might satisfy the dark spiritual forces at work in this epidemic (or something like that).

    11. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Do you remember the last time Obama declared that we "don't have a plan" because the conditions in Syria were complex and required addition time to evaluate the various options? Yeah, that honesty in leadership went over well, despite the fact that he made it clear that evaluating what was an exceptionally complex set of conditions could go horribly wrong if played incorrectly.

      If you do that up front it might be honesty. After a crisis has been brewing for years and exacerbated by inaction, bad decisions, poor diplomacy, and bad strategy is looks like what it is: poor leadership.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    12. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by RoninSnowman · · Score: 1

      NO.. It was a lie. The Armed Forces in the Pentagon had PLENTY of plans.

    13. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Zenin · · Score: 1

      And that surprises you?

      --
      My /. uid is better then your /. uid
    14. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Do you remember the last time Obama declared that we "don't have a plan" because the conditions in Syria were complex and required addition time to evaluate the various options?

      It would have helped if he'd used that time to actually come up with a plan........

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It would have helped if he'd used that time to actually come up with a plan........

      What plan then - help ISIS, help other groups backed by Iran or help Assad?

      I'm not sure time would have helped. A major worry now is ISIS went for deliberate provocation and seem to want us to drop bombs on the area and we are doing exactly what they want. Why they want it is a bit of a mystery, but those video nasties were designed for that purpose.

    16. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      What plan then -

      I don't know, he's the president, it's kind of his job to decide what to do as commander of the military. So far he's just been doing stuff, hasn't really accomplished much.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      What plan then - help ISIS, help other groups backed by Iran or help Assad?

      There were other groups not tied to any of them. The Obama administration fiddled until they were squeezed out.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    18. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Minupla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There must be an optimal level of security

      If we wanted to actually make people safer we'd take very dollar we spend on airport security and Ebola beyond contact tracking, containment and isolation/care for the infected and spend it on:

      1) Traffic safety
      2) Finding better ways to fight the flu

      Those two things would be way more impactful in terms of lives saved then the money being spent to keep air travel safe from terrorists and mobilizing the national guard to fight Ebola (not sure how they're going to do that, absent a shrink machine, Fantastic Voyage style).

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    19. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The legacy of "Charlie Wilson's War" means anyone who cares about the future is going to spend a bit of time checking details.
      If we'd asked our "allies" the Saudis for advice they would have recommended doing the same as them and giving ISIS money and guns. The real answer to the stability of the region is stop buying oil from the Saudis so that they can't fund terrorists. You'd think we would have worked that out in 9/11 considering where Bin Laden got his funding.

    20. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      How much additional safety do you think that safety would buy you on the road, given the number of motorists and the leading causes of car accidents (driver error)? You're not going to stop people crashing their cars until we have autonomous cars. However, if you see a disease arising that poses a serious threat to millions and you have the chance, you should consider doing something about it.

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    21. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      I wasn't talking about optimal ways to prevent people dying, I was talking specifically about aircraft security. That is to say how to stop terrorists from blowing up aircraft. There are a million different ways to die and a million different probabilities at any given time that you will do so. You may survive a car crash, but it's very unlikely you'll survive your plane being blown up at 30,000 feet over the Atlantic. If you multiply the risk by the certainty of death, you will see it in an entirely different light.

    22. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      What plan then -

      I don't know, he's the president, it's kind of his job to decide what to do as commander of the military. So far he's just been doing stuff, hasn't really accomplished much.

      This might be a crazy idea, but have you considered that bombing things, in fact, violence of any kind! might not be the solution to all of America's concerns in the Middle East. I mean has it really worked out for you lately?

    23. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Minupla · · Score: 1

      On traffic safety, agreed, long term, autonomous cars are the way to go. Some of the answer there is time and market forces, but I suspect a billion or two from the war on terrorism could move that along nicely. Faster technology evaluation and approval pipeline, more money for NSF funded core research, etc. But nearer term there are technologies that exist in high end cars that would lower traffic fatalities tomorrow if available in all cars. Blindspot object detection, lane departure alerts, etc. If the concern is about an objective attempt to lower the number of people who die each year, a dollar spent in this area is going to save more people than a dollar spent in airport security.

      On diseases, if you're talking about a billion dollars to paradrop a few thousand doctors into africa to do contact tracing, then you have my support. If on the other hand you're discussing mobilizing the national guard to protect North America from Ebola, not so much, spend the money on the flu, which kills many more people world wide. If we do the right things in Africa, Ebola will never be more then a hideous way for a couple of people to die in the US. This is one of those situations where the "Protect the Homeland" mantra is worse then useless.

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    24. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Minupla · · Score: 1

      World wide 2013 air crash fatalities: 29
      World wide 2010 traffic crash fatalities 1,250,000 (est)

      So unless you're going to argue that I'm 4310300% more likely to walk away from a fatal car crash, we're better off spending money there, looking at it from an objective point of view.

      Fear drives us to make poor decisions. I fly a lot, but I understand that I'm just as dead from making an error at 70 mph as I would be asleep in my seat when the back end falls off my 737. Just 4310300% more likely to experience the former then the latter.

      *disclaimer: Yes, I know, I mixed statistics from 2013 and 2010 above. I was too lazy to go back and find 2010 air crash statistics, but I seriously doubt it impacts the statistical analysis any more then the rounding error in the world wide traffic fatality stat.

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    25. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      No. Bombing things in the Middle East is always the solution to our problems over there. The reason it hasn't worked is that there is a lot of sand and it blows around so covers up our good work. We just need to drop more bombs more frequently. I mean we have some MOABs that could be put to some good use and would make some reasonable holes that would take a while to fill back in. Fill the air with B2s, C130s, F117s, and B52s so it blots out the sun and bomb away.[/sarcasm]

      Personally I thing we should let the various individuals over there sort it out since what ever side we help is just going to piss at least one other side off. There are Sunni Muslims, Shia Muslims, Kurds, Persians, Arabs, Jews, Palestinians, and a hand full of other more minor groups, not to mention the various nationalities (no sure how jingoistic they are) and it seems that if all combinations aren't right then you need to kill the other guy. Now add in that they seem to have the concept of blood feud and this seems like something any rational person should stay away from. It sounds cruel but if they want to kill each other let them, if they want to be left the hell alone we should help evacuate civilans who don't want to be caught in the middle of fighting over some desert but other than that no involvement.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    26. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not even damage control, that's just politics. Damage control attempts to mitigate and repair damage. Politics just attempts to assign blame (with or without cause).

    27. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Pino+Grigio · · Score: 1

      But the statistical comparison is invalid. You're much more likely to die because your plane has exploded than because one of the passengers in your car detonated a bomb. If you're talking about general safety, that's a different thing completely.

    28. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Little to no good? Incorrect. It actually does harm by increasing the exposure risk. Passenger densities have increased when attempting to get into terminals which makes the TSA screening lines the second most densly packed area after the planes themselves. Additionally, having replaced the old metal-detector lines has caused the amount of wait time to increase which means that travellers are now spending even more time in the 2nd most densely packed region.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    29. Re:Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yes. I'd still like to see his plan.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    30. Re: Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pffft. everyone is doing it.

  3. People worry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " People worry more about threats against which we feel powerless, like a disease for which there is no vaccine and which has a high fatality rate if you get it."

    People also worry more when they are poorly educated in basic science or how to assess the credibility of a writer, are taught that every story has two sides regardless of how crazy the other side is, listen to talk radio commentators rather than scientists, have alarmingly stupid television news, and have staggeringly poorly-educated politicians openly exploiting the stupidity of their electorate.

    I am British. As with mainland Europe, we actually have a really big potential exposure risk (a very large West African population who are no more than an afternoon-long flight from their homes). We didn't need a Shep Smith to tell us to shut the fuck up and stop panicking.

    Though it might have helped if we could have shut the Daily Express up.

  4. As some one recently pointed out to me by peragrin · · Score: 5, Funny

    More americans have married Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola.

    And what is the land of the free creating more czar's for? a czar answers to no one. Instead how about we make the people in charge responsible for their actions. oh wait congress can never take responsibility for their failures.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    1. Re: As some one recently pointed out to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why you're correct. I support the immediate indefinitely-long quarantine of Kim Kardashian in light of this shocking observation.

    2. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not true. Two have died on US soil. A different two have contracted Ebola on US soil. Who knows how many Americans have died from Ebola while in Africa over the decades. Kim has only be married twice unless you count original Jewish Law form of marriage (making whoopie makes you married).

    3. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      Both Ted Kennedy and Tony Stewart have killed more Americans than Ebola.

    4. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the population is crazy about something, a czar is required. Kim Czar has been long overdue, with the national guard already standing at rigid attention. Also, one always calls the national guard in the case of an alien organism infecting a person in a humble, Southern city or a town in a Mountain State of Colorado.

    5. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      Is there a death I haven't heard of? As far as I know, only one person has died of Ebola on US soil (Duncan), and he wasn't American by nationality; he's Liberian. Only one American (Sawyer) has ever died of Ebola, but not on US soil; he died in Nigeria.

    6. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still waiting for the bizCzar.

    7. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      More Americans have married Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola.

      Given that choice I think I would take Ebola. I would be less likely to have some horrible disease.

      Seriously with Eboal I would only have one horrible disease, but being married to any of the Kardashians would ensure that I end up with at least half a dozen horrible ones if not more. Add in that I would have to look at that awful face and deal with that horrendous personality and I would be begging to have my insides turn into a jelly and leak out of every orifice.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    8. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you basically just answered your own question.

    9. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by David+Jao · · Score: 1

      I answered my own question "as far as I know." I am asking specifically whether or not my knowledge is incomplete. That's what the question "Is there a death I haven't heard of?" means.

    10. Re:As some one recently pointed out to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why hasn't the president appointed a Kardashian czar? We the people demand action before another poor American is affected.

  5. Ebola requires not an "Ebola Czar" ... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 0

    TFA is right. Ebola requires not an "Ebola Czar" but a team of people who are well trained with comprehensive strategy to tackle / combat / defeat Ebola

    Right now, as it is, the fight against Ebola has been a sham --- this disease was not a new phenomenon, Ebola has been known since the 1970's, but because it had always been confined in the African continent, the continent in which the "low class people lives" (to the uninitiated that ain't my opinion but it has been the opinion of the colonial elites) nobody takes Ebola seriously other than very few cases of vaccine experimentation sponsored by military of various countries

    The fact that WHO has to resort to collect the blood of those who survived Ebola to make a "serum" trying to cure Ebola tells us how unprepared the world is against this disease

    Until now the establishment still insists that Ebola is not airborne but at least one experiment in Canada has indicated that Ebola could spread through air ( see these links --- http://www.bbc.com/news/scienc...

    http://healthmap.org/site/dise... )

    If the establishment until now still does not want to tell us the truth, who can we trust ?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Ebola requires not an "Ebola Czar" ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, you were doing fine there until you said 'the establishment'.

      That study has numerous problems. The _actual_ infectivity rate of ebola strongly suggests that it isn't airborne at all, and even droplet spread is not a very significant factor.

      The establishment is not hiding things from you. There are scientists all over the world not part of your 'establishment'. For fuck's sake.

    2. Re: Ebola requires not an "Ebola Czar" ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is probably worth mentioning that the relative lack of attention for Ebola is both because it has historically killed poor people in the middle of nowhere and because it has killed so few of them compared to more mundane unpleasant tropical diseases.

      Per-capita spending is obviously a lot lower than for first world diseases; but money is spent on both researching and treating tropical diseases. However, 'scary, relatively rare, exotic virus that typically burns out pretty fast' is not a compelling humanitarian target compared to the boring-but-widespread pathogens that kill and sicken hundreds of thousands year after year.

      The (limited) funding for Ebola research has traditionally come from military/defense sources, not humanitarian/world health ones, precisely because Ebola has ranked so low compared to the usual tropical medicine and diseases-of-poverty suspects; but does strike people as something that would ruin your day if it did make it to a proper population center.

    3. Re:Ebola requires not an "Ebola Czar" ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There has been a bit of work on three approaches with at least one completing animal testing. It may not be in the news but some people have cared enough to put more than a decade of work in.

    4. Re: Ebola requires not an "Ebola Czar" ... by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      Also because there's little to study, it's hard to test a vaccine, and its also downright dangerous to study. Mundane pathogens that nonetheless kill a lot of people have the delightful property of being almost completely survivable if you contract them accidentally in a research setting.

  6. Most effective counter to fear by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

    The most effective counter to the epidemic of fear this article talks about is for the government to convince people that it is following an effective policy to address the dangers. Unfortunately, our politicians have gotten the idea that the best way to do that is to manage the "optics" of the situation. As a result, people are convinced that the government's responses to this danger are designed more to convince people that the government is doing the right thing that to actually DO the right thing.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  7. On the subject of feelings vs facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There has been a narrative in the media lately that the western world's response to the ebola outbreak has been too little too late, implying that the situation could have been better than it is today with an earlier swifter response from the developed world. I've noticed a lot of people have called for the head of the CDC to be fired.

    I tried doing some searching to find out if there is any evidence to support this notion, and as far as I can tell the only people making these claims are politicians and activists, ie people not really qualified to make such claims.
    Is there any hard evidence that this is the case? I mean the notion that "the west has screwed Africa over once again" on the surface rings true, but are there any statements from virologists or any experts in disease control who agree with this? Or is it just a case of white knight-ism and politicians trying to gain political capital?

    Is this just a knee-jerk emotional response, or is there expert testimony and evidence to back it up?

    1. Re:On the subject of feelings vs facts by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      as above poster stated... it's typically too deadly to be widespread. An outbreak usually kills less than a hundred people and occurs pretty sporadically.

      just looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      the first listing they have is 1976. before this current outbreak you were averaging 44 deaths per year... globally?

      meanwhile, wikipedia lists the average lightning strike fatalities for the US at 40-50 annually... at a 10-20% fatality rate.

      you were literally more likely to be struck by lightning in the US than die of ebola before this current outbreak.

      and apparently hippos kill 2800 people annually... so there's that.

      So yeah, not a priority.

  8. Oh come on... by ErikTheRed · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Obama Administration (and Bush / McCain / Romney would have been no better) looked around and were thinking ... hmmm... who could we appoint for this? An expert in epidemiology? Somebody with experience in coordinating the logistics of an emergency response? A useless public relations shill? Or an even more useless lawyer crony with connections to that epic success Solyndra?

    Yeah, that last one sounds about right. We'll go with that.

    --

    Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
    1. Re:Oh come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heckuva job, Brownie.

  9. Re:Leave the comments clear this time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "What difference does it make now anyway?"

    Is that you, Hillary?

  10. "Fear" by Loopy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fear is relatively easy to manage if you actually have, you know, the peoples' trust. Imagine that. Why, if the public was actually used to the government telling the truth (including telling them when something was actually potentially detrimental to national security, rather than using that as an excuse to obscure _everything_) I'll bet you could just be honest with them and people would be rather rational about the whole thing. Lie through your teeth and then blame it on your predecessors or people you have appointed and you get the current situation.

    Then again, who among us today has any experience in an environment where people were actually being honest, even a majority of the time, and especially in any governmental context? The closest you'd get to that today would be certain military units and small teams at companies.

    1. Re:"Fear" by aberglas · · Score: 1

      I'd say that the fear is being managed remarkably well. For a small threat it has been raised into a major issue, with the promise of additional funding for homeland security. Fear is good for business.

    2. Re:"Fear" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      sexconker - October 2014:

      I'd love to see you make that same post 10 days from now when the number of confirmed cases in the US skyrockets.

      sexconker is a useless sack of shit.

    3. Re:"Fear" by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      If you don't want to believe what someone is saying is the truth, you will not trust them. Your opinion is set from sources you do trust, which does not necessarily have your best interests at heart. Politics- next election; news- next ad; military- next budget; church- blind following; nobody is impartial.

      What you can control is your own behaviors to ensure the people you trust have common goals that are important to you. A Talking Head can never be in that position. Seek out experts...

  11. Piffle by koan · · Score: 1

    This sort of thing, shelter in place, what's happening in the Poconos, the police response to the Boston bombers is to acclimatize the sheep to a police state

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  12. Incomplete analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On the face of it, sending un-trained US miltary personnel into the hot zone makes zero sense. So why might they have been sent?
    The 101st and National Guard aren't being sent to mitigate the situation in Liberia et al. in any meaningful way. They're been sent for training.
    Worst case scenario, if the virus causes serious disruption in the US, troops with Liberian experience will be used to train up stateside forces to back up health workers and quell unrest. As a bonus some of the surviving infected troops will have immunity to the virus.

    OTOH, Maybe I'm giving Obola credit for a level of cynicism that isn't there. Maybe the administration really is the most incompetent in US history.

    1. Re:Incomplete analysis by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      On the face of it, sending un-trained US miltary personnel into the hot zone makes zero sense. So why might they have been sent?
      The 101st and National Guard aren't being sent to mitigate the situation in Liberia et al. in any meaningful way. They're been sent for training.
      Worst case scenario, if the virus causes serious disruption in the US, troops with Liberian experience will be used to train up stateside forces to back up health workers and quell unrest. As a bonus some of the surviving infected troops will have immunity to the virus.

      OTOH, Maybe I'm giving Obola credit for a level of cynicism that isn't there. Maybe the administration really is the most incompetent in US history.

      Or maybe, just maybe, the US military (or any functional military for that matter) has the only organization structure, money and manpower to deal with these sorts of major threats.

      Don't you watch any televison?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Incomplete analysis by riverat1 · · Score: 2

      The US military personnel sent to Liberia are there to build some treatment centers and to expedite logistics for materials to fight the epidemic. They are not treating or even being exposed to the people who are contagious with Ebola. Your post is just more fear mongering.

    3. Re:Incomplete analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because the 101st airborne are the natural choice to build treatment centers.
      I was being charitable when I ascribed a cynical motive to the decision to send them.

    4. Re:Incomplete analysis by riverat1 · · Score: 2

      In a country like Liberia with its poor transportation systems I think the 101st Airborne Division with their helicopters and skilled pilots is one of the things you need to deliver material and personnel in the area. From the Whitehouse Fact Sheet on the response:

      Scaling-up the DoD presence in West Africa. Following the completion of AFRICOM’s assessment, DoD announced the planned deployment of 3,200 troops, including 700 from the 101st Airborne Division headquarters element to Liberia. These forces will deploy in late October and become the headquarters staff for the Joint Forces Command, led by Major General Gary Volesky. The total U.S. troop commitment will depend on the requirements on the ground;

      So out of at least 3,200 troops only 700 of them are from the 101st Airborne and the other units are yet to be specified. It makes sense to jump start the transportation system so the guys that follow can hit the ground running (or at least jogging ;). If there are 100 choppers and pilots it probably takes the other 600 to support them. You need mechanics, airfield personnel for things like fueling and air traffic control, a kitchen to feed 700 people or more, a medical unit and the officers to manage it all.

    5. Re:Incomplete analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're building field hospitals and other stuff that they are particularly good at creating. They aren't treating people.

  13. RE: reference article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What utter non-sense. It is rational to fear Ebola, because it has the potential, repeat potential, to cause a deadly and disgusting epidemic in the US, as it ALREADY is in some countries. Unlike certain other threats which are pre-existing, such as mental illness, crime etc, disease can and often does exhibit a "chain reaction" like progression. One need look no further than the infamous Spanish Flu epidemic of the early 20th century.

  14. Having a Surgeon General would help by chromaexcursion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The fools are yelling for an Ebola Czar.
    Perhaps filling the position of Surgeon General would be simpler. Controlling the spread of disease is one of the functions of that office.
    But, approving the the candidate for the office would require the Senate to actually do something.

    1. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The NRA won't approve Obama's candidate for office because he wants to add black box warnings to guns "WARNING: The Surgeon General reports that guns can kill you".

    2. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by aralin · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only reason why he is "not qualified" is that NRA decided they will "Score" this vote. Congress critters are afraid to tarnish their 100% NRA approved record. *sigh*

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    3. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Informative

      The only qualifications the man whom Obama has nominated for the post has for the post is that he has unwaveringly supported Obama. In doing so, he has advocated for politicizing a position which has traditionally been as non-political as possible (there have been Surgeon-Generals in the past who took political stances on public health issues, but everyone agreed that they were public health issues, this guy appears to want to use "public health" to advance his political agenda). As a result, the Democrats in the Senate are unwilling to support his nomination (the Republicans positions are irrelevant since they cannot stop the Democrats from confirming him no matter what they do).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Dude, you are stupid as shit.

    5. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Tailhook · · Score: 4, Informative

      Reid has 55 (D) votes and it only needs 51 to confirm, so put the blame where it belongs.

      Why is there no surgeon general?

      Short answer: Obama's nominee is a political disaster; a highly partisan anti-gun obamacare cheerleader that the Dems know better than to expose to the confirmation process in an election year.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    6. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have to be careful about selecting a Surgeon General. The nation can't risk having person in that office who irresponsibly spreads the idea that it's OK for people to masturbate.

    7. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by aralin · · Score: 1

      And a president's chief of staff is usually the same person that runs his election. The fact that he campaigned on behalf of the president is only a positive, since we are not getting a random person who's views are not known at all. But the fact that NRA cannot have an anti-NRA person even on the position of Surgeon General, where most of doctors are clearly anti-gun with 32,000 gun related deaths. There are other better arguments I could make against him, but that is not the one the opposition is making. They simply say... anti-gun, doctors for america. So much bullshit.

      --
      If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
    8. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      The only reason why he is "not qualified" is that NRA decided they will "Score" this vote. Congress critters are afraid to tarnish their 100% NRA approved record. *sigh*

      Although it may be appealing in some respects to accept at face value your claim that the Democrats running the Senate are adverse to being held accountable, as they have previously demonstrated, it turns out there is more to it. The "nominee" isn't up to standard to be considered for the office.

      The Left, Hoping the Lack of a Surgeon General Becomes a Huge Issue

      Today on Ronan Farrow’s MSNBC program, the host invited former surgeon general Richard Carmona, who served under President Bush, on the program. The former surgeon general offered a bluntly harsh assessment that Murthy was “a young man who has great potential, but just a few years out of training, with no public health training or experience” and “a resume that only stands out because he was the co-founder of Doctors for Obama.” Carmona made similar comments on Fox News a few days ago.

      “So substantive objections as well as well as partisan ones,” Farrow said quickly, moving on from the interview.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    9. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by miller701 · · Score: 1

      Carmona is a Democrat, just because he worked for Bush 43 doesn't make him partisan.

      From the arguments he made on CSPAN Murthy's not ready at this time.

    10. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      As long as they put them on cars as well...

    11. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by dbIII · · Score: 1

      With respect, an anti-gun viewpoint should not matter at all in a role like that since guns are not part of the job.

      Of course this was never actually about guns though, as with most of the US "gun debate" it's about being on the "right team", which in one case happens to contain a dysfunctional sporting club with far too much political power - and in the other case fill in whatever partisan insults you want to use. By being "anti-gun", or more likely just anti-NRA rant of the week, he's shown he's not "on the right team" so it's not really about guns is it?

    12. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by dywolf · · Score: 1

      imagine that: a doctor who thinks things that kill and otherwise impair the health of people is a public health issue.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    13. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by dywolf · · Score: 1

      as opposed to the Party of No? The party that stated on Day 1: "We will oppose everything he says, and make hima one term President" ??

      Example:
      POTUS: Lets bomb Syria.
      GOP: No, now is not the right time. This President is irresponsibly suggesting sending our boys into harms way.
      POTUS: Let's not bomb Ukraine.
      GOP: This President is weak, a coward. We need to show the world we are strong and stand up to Russia, even if it means sending troops.

      or maybe these two different positions taken by Speaker of hte House Boehner, less than 24 hours apart:
      July 30, 2014 - We are suing the President for abusing his executive powers and not coming to Congress to deal with the ACA's implementation.
      July 31, 2014 - The President doesn't need Congress's permission to act, and should use his Executive Power to solve the immigration crisis instead of waiting for Congress.

      But it's the President who won't comprise. Sure.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    14. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it would be a political disaster, they know retards like you are out there voting. A doctor who made a statement about studying guns (because you know doctors sometimes study stuff that can affect health) is immediately turned into a "anti-gun cheerleader". I bet you don't regard yourself as highly partisan but love throwing that stupid term around.

    15. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With respect, an anti-gun viewpoint should not matter at all in a role like that since guns are not part of the job.

      Conflating legal gun ownership with "public heath" is a well known gun grabber tactic and nominating one of its perpetrators to Surgeon General of the US will be opposed vigorously.

      far too much political power

      The volition of millions of dues paying, publication reading and manufacturer patronizing members protecting their rights — democracy is a bitch.

    16. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by chihowa · · Score: 1

      What can't kill or otherwise impair the health of people? If we start down that road, Surgeon General's warning labels will become as helpful as Prop 65 warning labels are now.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    17. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      's'matter? Afraid he's gonna put a Surgeon General's warning about the negative health effects of bullets on the side of every box?

    18. Re:Having a Surgeon General would help by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      ... and for the administration to provide a nominee worth confirming. Hey! It could happen!

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  15. Utterly misses the point ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    You don't have to be a risk-perception psychologist to get what's going on.

    Nutty people said, "Do something!!!!"

    So we have a czar.

    FTFY

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:Utterly misses the point ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge." Lao-tzu

      "People are difficult to govern because they are big dumb jerks." Lao-tzu's wife "Runaround" Tsu (as channeled by Gary Larson in an old comic)

      "Half the population is below aveage*" - G. Carlin

      * Except in Lake Woebegon

  16. Re:What does require those things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Who fed you raw sewerage as a kid? That can only explain how dumb you are.

  17. Re:What does require those things? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Funny

    While this is a Fox News topic, the comments are not as bad as what you would get there.

    For example not one reference to Obola yet.

  18. Article is right... by Junta · · Score: 1

    Yes, it's the fear of Ebola that's the bigger practical problem. However, the remedy for that fear is precisely doing things like declaring an Ebola 'Czar' and promising to deploy the National guard 'if necessary'. Note they didn't actually call up the national guard, just promised the obvious, if the national guard is warranted (it won't be) it will be called up. The nomination of a 'Czar' is pretty much free and convening ' a two-hour emergency meeting with every top federal official involved in public health and safety.' is actually not that terrible either. These measures are not a big deal in cost, but are important in their significance to the general populace.

    So someone who is well informed may rightfully see all this as silly from a practical perspective, but I don't think they would perceive a significant investment of real resources in any of it.

    Meanwhile those inclined to not be so well informed are assured by some response that really doesn't cost much.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  19. Murica F**K YEAH !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cmon, this is typical behavior of the American Government.

    We no longer think through problems, we put ( troops, guns, fleets, drones ) into ACTION !!! Wurds are for de GIRLY MEN ya !

    Give us a bit more time and we'll declare war on Ebola. . . . ( soon as we figure out how to make money off of it )

  20. Why the grammer in /. submissions has gone to shit by SubGhandi · · Score: 0

    would make for a good story.
    Are these people SHROOMING?

    Force me to use Slashdot "Beta" and it will be the last, sad, straw.

  21. Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Zynder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would all of this talk about a Czar be an end run around the current problem of the Repubs blocking all nominations for a Surgeon General? Maybe that's the only way the administration feels they can have a real working department head?

    1. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1, Informative

      You mean the republicans in the senate where the democrats changed the rules so the republicans cannot block appointments any more? The current nomination for the Surgeon General cannot even pass with a majority democrat senate (with the new lower vote requirement).

      But Obama himself has stated several times we do not need a Czar for this. He finally had to do something because of all the screw ups making it appear like no one could find their own ass in Texas. I do not think they two situations could be remotely linked together given those two facts.

    2. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Interesting, the truth is overrated.

    3. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Nope. Ttruth doesn't have anything to do with it. People hate you because you're a dumass[sic] and they are tired of hearing you speak.

    4. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by riverat1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The rules were changed so certain judicial nominations couldn't be filibustered but I don't think that applies to appointments like Surgeon General.

    5. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Awe.. isn't that sweet. You are mad because i shot down your conspiracy with simply facts that anyone paying attention over the last year would already know.

      I'm sorry you hate me now but i still love you.

      Btw, [sic] the way you used it doesn't mean what you think it means and more than likely neither does dumass. But hey, those are just facts too.

    6. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      http://www.slate.com/articles/...

      Either way, with a simple majority vote, they could change that too. Thats all they had to change the rules last time even if it was limited to judicial nominies.

      Oh, and slate isn't exactly a conservative site last time i checked. But i see they are trying to be less liberal so go figure.

    7. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      Sometimes it takes a "dumass" to actually speak the truth, get things right, or notice that the king is naked.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    8. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      It often is on Slashdot. Consider it a bonus if you don't actually get mod bombed for posting it.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    9. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if they changed it, how could they fillibuster President Perry's republican nominations when the republicans take the wheel again?

      No different from how republicans whine and cry and sob about how terrible all this big government is and how awful it is and oh wait, we're in power now? Nevermind! Turns out their complaint isn't about the size of the government its just about who gets to use it.

    10. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Lol. Its not like the republicans can't just change it when they have control of the senate.

      I find it interesting how strongly some people are willing to ignore reality in order to create and maintain a republican boogerman. Lets forget that the current thread topic is a lie and its a democrat problem getting the surgeon general nomination through and invent a distraction instead. Wow how simply stupid people become when ideology it at risk.

    11. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by butchersong · · Score: 1

      There is a qualified interim surgeon general -much more qualfied than the Czar that was appointed. The surgeon general that has been nominated is a guy with no real qualification to be surgeon general. He's a smart guy sure and a good doc but so are any number of other people with no business being surgeon general. You don't take a young guy with no real background in leadership (again, he seems like a decent and promising guy long term but isn't anywhere near there yet) and appoint him a freaking vice admiral and surgeon general. It makes no sense that he would get the position just because he's on friendly terms politically with the pres.

    12. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by dywolf · · Score: 1

      they could, but procedural rules in parlimentary bodies are a Really Big Deal (tm).
      they're practically sacred and nearly untouchable.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    13. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by operagost · · Score: 0

      What kind of cocks mod up an AC who says this sort of thing? We don't even have adults here on Slashdot. Please, would the last person out shut off the lights?

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    14. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could they vote to change the rules? Sure. But they haven't, so your claim regarding the current situation is lacking in accuracy.

    15. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter anyway, since there are at least 6 Democrats that have said they will vote "no" on the nomination.

    16. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You mean except when they did it about a year ago to get around needing a super majority?

      If it wasn't just done, your point would have more weight. But then i would point out that the position is not unmaned, there is an acting S.G. in place and has been ever since the post became vacant. Its just not a political shill doing the job right now.

    17. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      They most certainly did vote to change the rules in the recent past. No one but you in this thread is denying that and we are actually discussing the fact it may have been limited to hudicial nominies and can just as easily be done again to seat a Surgeon General. My claim is the reason it has not happened is because even if they did, not enough democrats would vote for him to pass.

    18. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by khallow · · Score: 1

      The US already has an acting Surgeon General. If this were really important to the Obama administration they could have found a candidate that would pass the Senate.

    19. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have a very good acting Surgeon General with far better credentials than any political appointment any president makes.

      Red

    20. Re:Maybe we need a Surgeon General by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Lol. Its not like the republicans can't just change it when they have control of the senate.

      Yup. I don't get why people act like the whole cloture thing is some kind of constitutional guarantee. Committees, rules, cloture, etc are all just traditions. Anybody with a majority could choose to get rid of every congressional committee overnight, or remove all members of the opposing party, or whatever they want to do. The purpose of those committees is supposed to be to facilitate getting bills passed (ie make sure that there is something close to consensus on a bill before tying up the whole Congress in debate). They aren't supposed to exist so that a few congressmen can basically have a pre-veto on any legislation.

      All the constitution requires for a judge to be appointed is a majority vote. I don't think the founders ever really intended the Supreme Court to be this body where people serve for 40 years and huge wars get fought over which partisan side the 4-3 majority falls on. Lower courts are supposed to be even less political.

  22. not irrational by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The risk of gettng ebola may be low, but the stakes are very very high. If you do happen to catch ebola, you are so completely and utterly hosed...
    A certain caution is merited. Which is not to say that appointing a 'czar' is necessarily a useful embodiment of that caution.

    1. Re:not irrational by miller701 · · Score: 1

      Not entirely true, caught early enough and given proper hydration, ebola has a much less devastating death rate.

    2. Re:not irrational by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the side effect of not having to worry about it anymore

  23. Let's start by closing the front door by schwit1 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It would go a long way if the US refused direct commercial flights to and from the countries with outbreaks, and refused entry to anyone that has been in one of those countries in the past 3 weeks. The exception would be for US citizens and they should go through quarantine.

    1. Re:Let's start by closing the front door by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was just arguing that this is pointless. When I traveled to Israel, I requested that my visa be stamped on a removable sheet of paper to be stapled into my passport. I did this because I didn't want evidence of a trip to Israel when one of my next stops was Malaysia. If someone is trying to get from Liberia to the US, they will do so with no evidence of recently having been in Liberia.

      It's not as if there are huge numbers of flights to and from Liberia.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Let's start by closing the front door by dave420 · · Score: 1

      All that will achieve is making those folks from those areas hide the fact they were in a danger zone before coming to the US. Good jerb!

    3. Re:Let's start by closing the front door by dywolf · · Score: 1

      No, let's start by coming back to reality, back to actual facts.
      Startign with: There are no direct flights. None.

      No US airlines fly to Africa. The airlines stopped going when the outbreaks began, over 3 months ago. That's why this talking point is stupid. It ignores reality (shocking!).

      There is precisely one flight into and out of the Liberia right now, through Brussels, Belgium. It exists because the Belgain airline, at the WHO's request, specifically maintains an air link into Ebola affected countries, specifically for the purposes of keeping a known route open for medical teams and supplies and aid to fly into affected countries, and to provide a known route out for people trying to leave.

      Why provide a known route out? So you know who is leaving, and can track them, and monitor them. Like a honey pot.
      If there is no route out, motivated individuals will make one, and health officials wont know who they are, where they went, and who they were in contact with.
      There is less hazard in having a known route, than in having NO route.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  24. It may not be a *significant* factor ... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1

    The _actual_ infectivity rate of ebola strongly suggests that it isn't airborne at all, and even droplet spread is not a very significant factor

    While you are correct that the airborne vector isn't significant need I remind you that Ebola is not a disease whereby the person infected with it gets a mild fever and minor headache and the cure is two aspirin tablets?

    The droplet spread may not be significant but when we consider the outcome --- in the case of Ebola, even something that is NOT supposed to be significant must be accounted for - or people die

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:It may not be a *significant* factor ... by radtea · · Score: 2

      While you are correct that the airborne vector isn't significant need I remind you that Ebola is not a disease whereby the person infected with it gets a mild fever and minor headache and the cure is two aspirin tablets?

      Sure, but that has zero bearing on the degree of concern people should have about the epidemic potential of Ebola in any country with a first-world health care system (Nigeria, say, or parts of the US outside Texas.)

      The thing fearmongers like the GP are all about is the attempt to create a sense that Ebola could actually be spreading like the flu, which is so trivially false it isn't even worth mentioning. Yes, PPEs that include good respiratory protection should be part of the standard patient-handling protocol, and all due care should be taken to avoid droplet transmission, but Ebola's almost complete lack of aerosol transmission is and will remain a substantial barrier to the population risk the disease poses: http://www.tjradcliffe.com/?p=...

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    2. Re:It may not be a *significant* factor ... by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Ebola's almost complete lack of aerosol transmission is and will remain a substantial barrier to the population risk the disease poses

      The thing is, what you're saying there is just plain implausible unless the air itself kills the viruses with remarkable efficiency, in which case it would survive for only minutes on a hard surface (like HIV), rather than hours (like influenza). From what I've read, it survives for hours on hard surfaces, which lends serious doubt to any claim that Ebola exhibits an "almost complete lack of aerosol transmission".

      Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Ebola is airborne. It currently is not (or at least it is not currently believed to be). However, it is unsafe to assume that the way a virus behaves in Africa (hot weather, high humidity, little use of HVAC, mostly rural, families that stay home to care for the sick) will match the way it would behave in the United States (highly variable air temperatures, potentially low humidity because of the use of HVAC, heavily urban, people who go to work even when sick). Such a conclusion would be fundamentally invalid because it doesn't control for an absolutely insane number of variables.

      In particular, with airborne diseases, propagation by aerosol transmission increases rather dramatically when the air is cold and the humidity is low (particularly when it is insanely low because of HVAC). That's one reason why the cold and flu season in the U.S. spikes markedly during the winter. In the parts of Africa where Ebola is currently found, the hot air temperature and relatively high humidity don't lend themselves to aerosol transmission. So there's a distinct possibility that the exact same strain of disease that is not airborne in Africa would be airborne in the United States.

      Such temperature-dependent and humidity-dependent behavior would also be consistent with researchers' conclusions after an October 1989 lab incident in which the closely related Ebola Reston virus spread rapidly among physically isolated populations of lower primates. "Due to the spread of infection to animals in all parts of the quarantine facility, it is likely that Ebola Reston may have been spread by airborne transmission." (Beltz, Lisa. Emerging Infectious Diseases. 253)

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:It may not be a *significant* factor ... by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 2

      It almost certainly does only survive for minutes on hard surfaces. The surfaces it survives on longer are those which are literally covered in blood and bodily fluids for it to reside in.

  25. American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by onkelonkel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We assumed we could easily handle Ebola if it came our way, because we are the most powerful and richest country on Earth. What we should have done is asked, "What are our weaknesses? Where is our medical system likely to fail?" Unfortunately we tend to suck at this kind of introspection. If we had asked, the most glaring weakness in our system, "Not everybody has medical coverage", might have been considered. Then when a sick black man recently arrived from West Africa came to the hospital without medical insurance we might have thought "EBOLA" and treated him right away, instead of thinking "poor Nigger, not gonna pay his bills" and sent him home with some Tylenol.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    1. Re:American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by wickerprints · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Here's a breakdown of all the problems:

      1. Hubris. US government agencies (policymakers, public health officers, and elected officials) and private healthcare providers (hospitals) assumed that a substantial driving force for the spread of Ebola in West Africa is due to their lack of a developed healthcare system. In other words, these agencies thought that Ebola could be easily contained were it to occur in the US simply by taking appropriate precautions. That, as we have seen, is incorrect: the infection of two nurses proves that once someone is sick, it takes a great deal of diligence to avoid coming into contact with their infected blood, diarrhea, and vomit. Consider how many US hospitals have a difficult time as it is controlling other infectious diseases that are typically only found in the hospital setting--MRSA, C. difficile, MDR tuberculosis, etc. This demonstrates that establishing a complete barrier is not something most hospitals are either economically or physically equipped to do. Yet officials persist in saying that "Ebola isn't really that easy to trasmit."

      2. Failure to consider severity. In insurance, we consider Exposure = Frequency x Severity. Exposure represents exposure to risk. Frequency represents the probability of a loss (or in this case, we might model it as the likelihood of dying of Ebola). Severity represents the costs associated with a loss (in this case, death). The problem is that many people are focused on the minuscule frequency, but the true exposure to risk is not merely quantified by this tiny, tiny probability. Moreover, this simple model must also be expanded to consider that frequency is a time-dependent function of the number at risk and the infectivity of the disease. Epidemiologists can model this much more easily than I can, but I guarantee you that they will have to do some HEAVY revising because what we have seen of the way these recent cases have been handled, the potential for error is enormous. If Ebola gets a foothold here--and this is not a negligibly small probability--then there are going to be some serious problems controlling its spread due to the fact that Americans are a LOT more mobile. Again, we saw this with these two nurses. One got on a flight while sick.

      3. Politics and messaging. I think the notion of an "Ebola czar" is absurd. Such a role does not need to exist except for the sole purpose of having someone to be the scapegoat if everything goes tits up, and that's really what this idiot is about. It's about having someone to pin the blame onto. The people talking about how this is all being blown out of proportion have a point, but their opinion is largely based on the current state of affairs--one dead man who flew in from Liberia and two nurses. We need to take into consideration that if things do not shape up in West Africa REAL FAST, and if more American health workers go there and possibly come back infected, we really could lose control here faster than you can blink an eye. We really are on a knife's edge here. I cannot overstate how precarious this situation is. That said, this is not a reason for panic: the public doesn't have any control over the situation, except to not travel to West Africa at this time. But it is definitely a reason to not buy into the messaging that we've been hearing about Ebola, because the politicians keep telling us it's not a big deal that they keep fucking up.

    2. Re:American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beyond that, the US utter failure to handle even the smallest number of cases for ebola, shows a true weakness and potential attack vector for terrorists. Come to America infected with Ebola, and bounce around a few cities in a VERY short amount of time, knowing you're infected.

      If anyone at CDC, DHS, or NSA haven't ran this scenario yet, and you're reading this, WHY THE FUCK NOT???

    3. Re:American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately we tend to suck at this kind of introspection. If we had asked, the most glaring weakness in our system, "Not everybody has medical coverage", might have been considered. Then when a sick black man recently arrived from West Africa came to the hospital without medical insurance we might have thought "EBOLA" and treated him right away, instead of thinking "poor Nigger, not gonna pay his bills" and sent him home with some Tylenol.

      Like most nations America can struggle with introspection. But you know what? There is an ever bigger problem, one of far greater significance that even undermines the democratic system of government. Do you know what that is? Lying through your ass when the facts are either known or knowable to achieve your ends, as it appears you may have just done. Thomas Duncan, the ebola patient, wasn't sent home because as you put it, "poor Nigger, not gonna pay his bills." He was misdiagnosed. That isn't hard to understand. It isn't hard to get right.

      Timeline details missteps with Ebola patient who died

      The record shows the physician "gathered personal history and health data" directly from Duncan and his companion. The data "reveal that Mr. Duncan and his companion advised that he was a 'local resident,' that he had not been in contact with sick people, and that he had not experienced nausea, vomiting or diarrhea" — symptoms of Ebola.

      The physical examination of Duncan "was remarkable only for nasal congestion and a runny nose along with mild abdominal tenderness."

      Duncan was given Extra Strength Tylenol and intravenous saline solution at 1:24 a.m.

      Various lab tests all came back within normal ranges.

      At 3:02 a.m., Duncan's temperature was 103 Fahrenheit. Thirty minutes later, it had eased to 101.2, and he was discharged five minutes later.

      The diagnosis: "sinusitis and abdominal pain." The physician noted that "patient is feeling better and comfortable with going home."

      Duncan, who had traveled to Dallas to visit family and prepare to marry, returned to the hospital Sept. 30 and was diagnosed with Ebola

      At best your capacity for introspection seems to have failed you. Or are you one of those people still going hammer and tongs for Obamacare and government run healthcare so that we can all enjoy the "benefits" of the VA health system (and its many recently publicized failings) or Medicare? Do you ever reflect on that? Do you ever reflect on the possibility that false data can lead to bad decisions even when making public policy?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    4. Re:American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by ray-auch · · Score: 1

      Thomas Duncan, the ebola patient, wasn't sent home because as you put it, "poor Nigger, not gonna pay his bills." He was misdiagnosed. That isn't hard to understand. It isn't hard to get right.

      Timeline details missteps with Ebola patient who died

      From WSJ: “Princess Duo, a niece of Ms. Troh who lives in Dallas and spoke with her following the ER visit, said Ms. Troh recounted being specific in the information she gave nurses that night. “They asked him for ID, and whether he had insurance. And she told them he did not because he had just come from Liberia,” Ms. Duo said."

      Sure he was "misdiagnosed" (or more realistically, not diagnosed, unless you have information as to what he was positively diagnosed with) , but only because they did not take the travel history properly or act on it.

    5. Re:American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure he was "misdiagnosed" (or more realistically, not diagnosed, unless you have information as to what he was positively diagnosed with) , but only because they did not take the travel history properly or act on it.

      It's in BOLD above. Didn't you bother reading it before replying?

    6. Re:American Exceptionalism Strikes Again by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's in BOLD above. Didn't you bother reading it before replying?

      I read it, and it doesn't say what you want it to say. It says that "Various lab tests all came back within normal ranges" but it doesn't say what those lab tests were, or if they were in fact the ones that you'd want to perform. Clearly they weren't. If you have a point then make it, don't just pound on the table harder.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  26. Re:Why the grammer in /. submissions has gone to s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Grammer"
    Oh, the irony!

  27. Re:What does require those things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see what you did there.

  28. You are at greater risk of polio by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    If you're a kid and you haven't had a polio shot, you're at greater risk of that.

    Especially if you're at a school for rich kids.

    If you're an adult, your best advice is to get a flu shot.

    Early symptoms of flu are similar. If you get a flu shot, you won't be put in isolation until we know you don't have Ebola.

    That said, you really shouldn't worry about Ebola if you live in the US. Unless you recently went to Africa.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  29. CDC does disease control, NIH does research by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    The funny thing is it's the cut in NIH funding that means we don't have vaccines, not the cut in CDC funding, which only manages it after it spreads.

    CDC means Center for Disease Control

    NIH means National Institute for Health

    That and the cut for health care in Texas that increased the risk factors.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:CDC does disease control, NIH does research by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is it's the cut in NIH funding that means we don't have vaccines...

      Of course, they still had plenty of cash ($39.6 million in fact) to study fat lesbians, feces throwing primates and origami condoms among other things.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:CDC does disease control, NIH does research by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      all three are relevant research studies. gay marriage is legal in most of America, obesity is a known problem (it's Health), primates are our nearest analogs, and the latter choice might not be your cup of tea, but you'd be surprised what people do.

      face it, you just love Russia and want America weak.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:CDC does disease control, NIH does research by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2

      all three are relevant research studies. gay marriage is legal in most of America, obesity is a known problem (it's Health), primates are our nearest analogs, and the latter choice might not be your cup of tea, but you'd be surprised what people do.

      More relevant than ebola?

      face it, you just love Russia and want America weak.

      This is why we can't have nice things. The NIH is like a student that blows their student loans on spring break in Cancun, and then complains that they don't have enough money to pay tuition.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    4. Re:CDC does disease control, NIH does research by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      all three are relevant research studies. gay marriage is legal in most of America, obesity is a known problem (it's Health), primates are our nearest analogs, and the latter choice might not be your cup of tea, but you'd be surprised what people do.

      More relevant than ebola?

      Considering that obesity kills many thousands of times more American than Ebola...yes.

  30. unless you recently went to Africa by pastafazou · · Score: 1

    or you were a health care worker caring for Duncan. Or happened to live in the apartment complex where Duncan stayed. Or you happened to be on a flight from Texas to Ohio. Or on a flight from Ohio to Texas. Or one of those within 2 degrees of separation of any of these.

    1. Re:unless you recently went to Africa by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

      or you were a health care worker caring for Duncan. Or happened to live in the apartment complex where Duncan stayed. Or you happened to be on a flight from Texas to Ohio. Or on a flight from Ohio to Texas. Or one of those within 2 degrees of separation of any of these.

      Read what I said.

      Billions of people on this planet. Hundreds of millions in the US.

      More people die from heat stroke in Texas than are even remotely considered "at potential risk".

      It's like you worry about being attacked by Martians while crossing a busy highway.

      Pay attention to the cars and trucks in the highway.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:unless you recently went to Africa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad you think that way. You'll quickly no longer be my competition for food and shelter once the "inevitable" happens.

    3. Re:unless you recently went to Africa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad you think that way. You'll quickly no longer be my competition for food and shelter once the "inevitable" happens.

      So, what is going to inevitably happen? Are the Martians going to get him? Have they already targeted him for a hit? Care to share?

  31. It could become a major problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ebola has been known about for about 4 decades. No one knew where the virus was hiding, but it was hiding somewhere in Africa. In the past, the local medical systems would do a quarantine, and Ebola would fizzle out... until 2014. The Ebola epidemic had been going on since early 2014. If Congress had thrown some money and doctors at it back then, Ebola might have fizzled out by now. Now, some cities in Africa are shut down. Think of the lost economic productivity.

    Congress is not skilled with Ebola, and Congress has many other issues to deal with. Appoint an Ebola czar, and Congress won't have to think about Ebola anymore. Some senators wanted an Ebola czar. Obama chose a politicial aide. oh well.

    1. Re:It could become a major problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch for it. Someone has said that to cure the ills if the planet we need to radically reduce the population. I'd hope for a natural pandemic to do the job since it would cut a swath through all classes, all races, all politics. Whether you lived or died would be the luck of the draw. Ebola, mutated correctly might do that.

      My fear would be that there is already an existing vaccine for Ebola and that certain people, classes, etc. have already been immunized making it possible to import these infected people to introduce the plague here, wiping out the undesirables while the protected classes carry on with business as normal.

      One has to remember that while the black death wiped out roughly 1/3 of the population of Europe, those who were left had a very good life style improvement once the plague was over.

      Which reminds me, has anyone checked to see if there's a genotype that is already immune to Ebola?

    2. Re:It could become a major problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch for it. Someone has said that to cure the ills if the planet we need to radically reduce the population. I'd hope for a natural pandemic to do the job since it would cut a swath through all classes, all races, all politics. Whether you lived or died would be the luck of the draw. Ebola, mutated correctly might do that.

      Oh, looky here, boys! We gots us another fan of Thomas Robert Malthus! This is promising to be good.

      My fear would be that there is already an existing vaccine for Ebola and that certain people, classes, etc. have already been immunized making it possible to import these infected people to introduce the plague here, wiping out the undesirables while the protected classes carry on with business as normal.

      Going for the +5, Conspiracy Theory mod, are we? You also forgot to add in Rush Limbaugh's accusation that Obama wants ebola to spread in America as payback for slavery. C'mon, all you right wingnuts! You guys are slipping again! You can do better than this! Seriously!

      One has to remember that while the black death wiped out roughly 1/3 of the population of Europe, those who were left had a very good life style improvement once the plague was over.

      Which reminds me, has anyone checked to see if there's a genotype that is already immune to Ebola?

      There is, but I'm not gonna tell ya. If you have to ask then you certainly don't have it. Too bad, sucka!

    3. Re:It could become a major problem by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      watch, it's going to be the gays, jews, blacks, asians, latinos or arabs... whichever group he hates most.

  32. Sadly, Wouldn't Work by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

    People are prone to panic about these things--it goes back centuries, to when you didn't even really have government being an issue here. One of the major ways the Black Death spread is people fleeing it. What's changed is that we don't really use the fear productively--we aren't using it to go "Yes, you should be scared, this is the sort of thing quarantine exists for, let's bring it back."

    The last time we had actual major-level quarantines going down was nearly 75 years ago, and the really nasty thing is that we have known pretty much the entire time that something like this was certain to happen. The questions have only been 'what' and 'when,' but people have been rather too gormless to listen, complaining about it being so antiquated & saying it's been just so long and antibiotics will work forever and vaccines are magical enough to have permanently banished those icky disease demons...and never listening when told that the Sword of Damocles will fall.

    The worst part, in some ways, is that we do have the technology to make people a lot less likely to mind being stuck in a room for days on end. It's called 'the internet.'

  33. I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA by AaronW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA and KPC which kills far more people in this country and are far more deadly. These diseases are easily spread and there is no cure for them. While not trying to diminish the cause to fight Ebola, frankly there are a lot of things far deadlier in this country that people should be worried about.

    The cases in Texas I think can be squarely blamed on incompetence from the Dallas hospital.

    In the case of KPC, Congress has basically put their head in the sand and handtied the CDC and FDA from effectively studying and fighting it, thanks to the livestock lobbies Frontline has a good episode on this. It doesn't help that congress has cut the budget of the CDC significantly over the last decade and played politics to make it difficult to study and fight the causes.

    As it is, the CDC had to cut back on their research on Ebola due to the budget cuts and the delays in the worldwide community for fighting and funding the fighting of Ebola aren't helping matters either. If the Dallas hospital wasn't so incompetent, there's a good chance Thomas might have survived and nobody else would have become infected.

    --
    This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    1. Re:I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Part of the problem with the recent agency flubs is lack of focus on the part of the agency, something that is the responsibility of Congress.

      For example the Secret Service was once a part of the Treasury Department, and had a relatively narrow set of missions. However with the creation of the monumental cluster fuck known as the DHS, the Secret Service was uprooted and badly placed under the DHS, then saddled with all sorts of diversions.

      Similarly the CDC has been loaded up with all sorts of ridiculous crap like being made responsible for bicycle lane safety and policing of farmers markets. This is a world leading organization that must function at the highest level possible. Loading it up with cruft will destroy it.

      Recently I've seen a lot of yammering about some of the people that are seen on TV including Freidman and Fauci, to the effect that they are incompetent and should be shown the door.

      I'm sorry but this makes me want to throw up. Anthony Fauci is one of the greatest Americans of this age. His work on HIV/AIDS has saved millions of lives. He is one of the most cited scientists in the world. It is disgusting that he should be subjected to the hysterical politics of the moment.

    2. Re:I wish they'd focus more on things like MRSA by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Nope, it was the CDC throwing the nurse under the bus. They didn't want to look incompetent, so they blamed the victim. Shocking and disgusting, but then again what do we in 2014 expect from our government? Competency?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  34. Risk-perception psychology? by lippydude · · Score: 1

    "[O]fficials are up against the inherently emotional and instinctive nature of risk-perception psychology .. People worry more about risks that are new and unfamiliar."

    The solution is to gather up all those talking-heads at Faux News (including the one with the plastic hair) and lock them up in Guantamino ref.

  35. Re:shit by FSWKU · · Score: 1
    --
    "So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
  36. FYI by sparkydevil · · Score: 1

    For those interested, I made a timeline of Ron Klain's life.

  37. Re: reference article by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    If Ebola were even half as transmissible as the flu I'd stock up my pantry and not leave my house for two months. Fortunately it's so hard to transmit to others that it has no chance of reaching epidemic proportions in a country like the US with a first world health system. It's difficult to be perfect and there may be a few cases that slip through the cracks like Thomas Duncan but even if some ISIS terrorist tried to bring it here deliberately there's no chance for it to develop into a widespread epidemic as long as it's so difficult to transmit.

  38. The US looked like sloppy idiots!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem is not about our knee jerk reaction - it's about the fact that our procedures looked so incredibly sloppy, that whatever miniscule risk we believed we had before about ebola was made several orders of magnitude worse. If the government took enough proactive steps to at least look like they were taking the issue seriously, the public would never had have the severe reaction it does now. It's as if we honestly believed the problem only exists in Africa.

  39. Re:What does require those things? by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

    Yes, for the 30 seconds per day they have "news" they are. For the other 24 hours, it's all conservative opinion shows pretending to be the news.

  40. Re:Global warming for the win! by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 0

    Don't tow the "Climate Change" line, don't get funded

    Exactly! Without scientists to move it, the "climate change" line, or for that matter, any line marking the boundaries of current human knowledge, it stays stagnant and fixed. Towing the lines helps our society prosper and grow...

    And to think that George Orwell thought it a Dying Metaphor!

  41. 4 easy steps to global pan(dem)ic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1. Saturate media with Ebola

    2. Conduct a survey of how scared everyone is of Ebola. Report your findings on TV. Update results often so you and your audience know how your doing.

    3. Watch political response to incited fear yield new policy while retroactively criticizing x, y and z for not freaking out from the beginning.

    4. Dedicate portions of your non-stop coverage to resulting overreactions.

  42. There are two problems here: halting Ebola & f by Jizzbug · · Score: 1

    Ebola is a real issue that must be address. It is growing exponentially, and the epidemic must be controlled and halted by an international cooperation before it either becomes a) endemic or b) pandemic.

    People are scared by the very real numbers alone, the mere mention of those numbers, and the uncertainty of the statistics themselves, in part because they don't understand 1st) probability and 2nd) medicine.

    When you point out that we shouldn't have to worry for at least another year, and that along the way there will be clear signs as to whether the situation is getting better or is worsening, giving us time to prepare, then they freak out even more, when it should actually satiate their fear, because it proves their fear of a slight chance of immediate threat is misplaced. It's as if a longer range perspective where we have time to watch and judge and plan makes them feel like the inevitability of an approaching disaster is more certain, when it's not.

    --

    -=/\- Jizzbug -/\=-
  43. Re:There are two problems here: halting Ebola & by queazocotal · · Score: 1

    Addressing this as a purely american issue.

    Ebola has the potential in africa to hit really quite scary numbers, quite fast.
    10000 new cases per week in a couple of months are not looking unlikely.

    This will spread over the world - admittedly greatly less in 'the west' and risks becoming a long-term health problem for americans - both in Africa and heavily infected regions, and in people travelling from them.

    This both affects trade, and causes increase direct costs for stuff like extra screening.
    Putting in the funds to kill the disease in Africa now - even with some deaths of US personel - could be significantly cheaper than allowing it to grow exponentially uncontained - at which point the 'leakers' from the hot zone vastly go up in number increasing expense and causing much harsher travel restrictions.

  44. Re: reference article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Ebola were even half as transmissible as the flu...

    I think you need to look up the medical definition of "airborne". Ebola can, and will, be transmitted by coughs and sneezes.

    There's been a lot of panicky commentary on the virus evolving to be airborne. That was a concern in equatorial Africa.
    In the USA it's far more worrying that the virus can piggy back on mucus and phlegm expelled by flu and cold sufferers.

    If Thomas Duncan had flu, hundreds would be infected with Ebola now.

  45. Re:What does require those things? by dbIII · · Score: 2

    There never where smart people here, just technicians and wannabe technicians with an inflated sense of self importance.

    Not true, when this site started I was a professional engineer - it's only now that I'm a wannabe technician with an inflated sense of self importance.

  46. We come in peace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "People worry more about risks that are new and unfamiliar."

    Geesh, of course they do. THAT'S THE INTELLIGENT THING TO DO.

    Hmmm, little green men in flying saucers hovering over every major capital. I'm going to decide to worry a lot about that because I know very little about them.

  47. No, you're wrong.. so fear, Fear, FEAR!! by MonsterMasher · · Score: 1

    and FEAR!

  48. Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason why you are probably safe is because there probably isn't someone near you with Ebola emitting bodily fluids directly on you or on something you might touch or eat. Since its transmission rate is above 1 and we are living in a highly populated area, a response might keep it that way.

    No, Ebola can sense fear;It is better to play cool. The system is handling it fine as it is.

  49. No, it doesn't. by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 1

    But irrational people insist on it.

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  50. Until we upgrade the dumb bunnies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I forgot to mention whistling. If you are afraid of Ebola, whistle. The worst thing about Ebola is the fear and while whistling you won't be afraid.

    If you have any deck chairs, you can rearrange them as well.

  51. Czar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't Czar an emperor of Russia? Like Theodore I or Boris Godunov? Uhh.. why is the U.S. using a Slavic/Bulgarian/Russian term?

    1. Re:Czar? by captjc · · Score: 1

      I don't know, ask the media why they like nicknaming executive-level governement offices, "Czars", as there are no positions with Czar as (or in) the official title. However, the tradition seems to go back to Franklin Roosevelt.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  52. The Human Mind by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Apparently humans normally do not act on reason at all. Recent experiments suggest that we act on emotions completely and then build a logical excuse for out actions or thoughts. We are a very screwed up species.

  53. Re:What does require those things? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

    When did you move into management?

    --
    If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
  54. Re: reference article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For current situation you are 100% correct. No real and intimidate danger in any first world country. But that is the situation now and its hard to tell how it might play out if epidemic is not gotten under control. After all this disease on this scale has never before seen. For example, could you imagine Ebola epidemic getting out of hand in say Mexico? Lets say it happens, US would have to deal with much more cases than just few slipping through. Now you could say, naah will never happen Mexico might not be quite that rich, but they could manage few Ebola cases no problem. But Mexico is bordered by Guatemala and Belize, situation is much the same as with US and Mexico. And this applies to pretty much every country in the world. Right now only countries bordering Guinea and Liberia are in much of a direct danger. But if that danger becomes reality, then there will be more countries facing the same situation all over again.

  55. Re:What does require those things? by ray-auch · · Score: 1

    When he needed more time to post to /. ?

  56. Re:What does require those things? by JasonGoatcher · · Score: 1

    Your day is kinda long, but make it a bit longer and we won't need leap days.

  57. The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists invented fear by nategasser · · Score: 1

    It's a riot that at the top of this (otherwise sensible) article is a Doomsday Clock announcing that humankind is "5 Minutes to Midnight." That's closer than it was for much of the cold war! Sure there's a pretty good chance some third-world nutjob will get his hands on a tiny nuke soon, and yes, over the next CENTURY, several million people will need to migrate inland to avoid flooding, and probably learn to farm different crops.

    But Doomsday? In five minutes?

    That clock is, literally, the single most needlessly alarmist message coming from "experts" since... Ever.

  58. Czar?,,,or lamb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The _only_ reason there is an Ebola Czar is that the President sees political badness coming out of this and it puts a person on whom responsibility can be placed between him and the crisis. If the President were serious about this post accomplishing anything there are about a dozen people at the NIH who have actual knowledge of Ebola who could serve in this position. There are a few at the CDC whose voices are being nullified by the Director who has been told to downplay any potential threat from Ebola and there are people at the University of Texas with such knowledge. Likely there are others also, but these are the ones that I with my non-medical background am aware of.
    For the President to choose someone with no knowledge of the disease with the advice that he is able to call upon tells me that the Ebola Czar is a sacrificial lamb prepared for the time when this all goes bad.

  59. This is what we get from 40 years of zombie movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks George Romero. Now every scary disease is a sign of the coming apocalypse.

    Braaaaaaaains!

  60. Re: What does require those things? by caveqat101 · · Score: 1

    Wrong, entertainment network. Remember, courts have said news is entertainment in England and the US. The rest of the world gets news, we get entertained, or lied to.

  61. Media vs Reality by water-and-sewer · · Score: 1

    This is a good article and a good post, but the "Czar" thing isn't reflected in the article itself, so it's a bit of creativity on the part of the submitter.

    The issue here is the mainstream media, which have seized on this and are whipping up people's emotions. No one expected anything else from tv "journalism" these days, but still, it's pathetic to see how it is playing out. I live in West Africa in a country that until recently was exposed to ebola. There was a patient living not more than 5 miles from my house. But life here is surprisingly calm and people are not panicking in any way, shape, or form.

    Back in the States it's panic and mayhem, and as seen from abroad it looks like a big joke, which is exactly what news media have become. It's too bad.

    On Reddit they had a contest to complete the sentence, "than have gotten ebola in the United States." One of the winners was, "More people have married Kim Kardashian ..."

    Keep it perspective, people.

    --
    If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
  62. If there were a vaccine by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    If there were a vaccine, the anti-vacciners would be all over it.

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  63. Ummm by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

    Appointing an Ebola Czar is about managing fear. People don't think the government is doing enough and people think the CDC and health care workers at the Dallas hospital fucked up. That's why there is an Ebola Czar. You'd think the person who wrote this article would understand that very simple point.

  64. F BETA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Again, I choose classic slashdot, and the list of posts come up properly classic.
    I click "Read the comments" and it goes to BETA. How amateurishly arranged this web site is.
    Or - how malignantly feindish the planning is to force the beta version on readers.
    Owners, managers, and website administrators: Get it right, or get another job in shoe sales (Al Bundy style).

  65. Re:Global warming for the win! by necro81 · · Score: 1

    Don't tow the "Climate Change" line, don't get funded.

    Well, if they're going to force me to tow something, maybe I don't want to have that kind of funding. I "toe the line" that towing is hard work, and I'm allergic to hard work!

  66. unless you recently went to Africa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many people from that apartment complex are infected? Zero.
    How many people on those flights are infected? Zero.
    How many people within 2 degrees of separation of any of those are infected? Zero.

    Maybe you should stop spreading uninformed panic, and instead pay attention to the facts.

  67. Re:Politics - no choice by Slim_Jack · · Score: 1

    At least you get a choice in who you can vote for - people who feed their families on foodstamps _forced_ to vote for the Democrats and do not have a voting choice.

  68. Creating a czar only creates problems by wired_parrot · · Score: 1

    I've seen this happen at a lot of large bureaucracies, including my own company - problem arises, and CEO feels compelled to appoint a special "czar" to deal with the problem. This only creates additional problems:

    - Being appointed directly by the executive, the czar is not responsible to anyone
    - The special czar will be appointed without any additional budget, and thus has no power
    - Being outside of the conventional hierarchy, no one reports to him, and thus will find difficulty obtaining cooperation from other groups
    - Responsibility for the problem will already be clearly defined in the existing hierarchy - appointing a czar will only confuse existing responsibilities and create conflict with the group responsible for the problem.

    I foresee the same problems arising here if an "Ebola czar" is created.

  69. Re: What does require those things? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    No, Fox news told the court that they were entertainment, not news.

    Which meant that the court ruled that, being entertainment, not news, they had no duty of accuracy.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  70. Czar by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I always thought it funny that in the US there seems to be this fear of socialism and communism, yet lately they appoint Czar's to everything it seems, which are most commonly attributed to pre-communist Russia...

    Foreshadowing of things to come?

  71. I'm dating the Ebola Czar by vulcanrob · · Score: 1

    Being named Ebola Czar pretty much guarantees you'll never have a date again.

  72. Asking Ebola CZAR a question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe we could ask the new Ebola CZAR? (Where are we.now in Old Mother Russia?) to please place the appropriate severity of penalty or a spark of American Patriotism onto those who may have contracted the infectuously deadly and highly contagious ebola virus before they can be safely evacuated, so they may realize the wisdom behind this idea: that refraining from travelling outside of their homes if they have reason to believe they are at risk for developing full-blown symptoms has to be voluntary, but quintessentially mandatory to prevent the nightmarish scenario of officials (dressed in full Hazmat garb) having to retrace every possible contact they may have had in the last 3 weeks since they may have become infected and the contacts of those they contacted. THANK YOU

  73. Officials are up against -- their incompetence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RE: "[O]fficials are up against the inherently emotional and instinctive nature of risk-perception psychology."
    Not quite. Officials, particularly the CDC, have shaken public confidence by openly demonstrating their incompetence.
    1. We were told that the virus would never reach our shores or it would be months/years before it happened. Oops.
    2. The virus cannot survive exposed to air for more than two or three days. Wait three days before cleaning out the apartment. Oh, sorry. It can survive six days.
    3. Any big city hospital can handle the containment protocol, and the CDC provided written instructions. But, of course, the first cases was handled first by a small comunity hospital.
    4. About those written instructions: the CDC did not recommend face shields or covering for the head. That's bad. They have given out new instructions.
    5. The old instructions called for a poor procedure for removing gloves. And removing the gloves before the gown does not appear to be rright, either.
    6. The CDC failed to provide guidance for workers outside the hospital setting. Hence we have a worker rolling up the sleaves of their hazmat suit.
    7. The total capacity for beds to be used for Ebola patients is about nine, with overflow capacity of 19. Plans to increase that? [Sound of crickets.]
    8. The CDC and the NIH have recommended that travel restrictions are a bad idea. Their reasons are incoherent. But even worse, there is are basic questions, including: if someone gets infected and has sufficient funds to travel to the US, wouldn't it occur to them to travel to the US before they develop symptoms? That way if they get sick, they will stay in the US and get first class care. (That's essentially what Thomas Duncan did.) Let's say 0.1% of people that contract Ebola do this. The WHO suggests that there may be 1,000,000 people with Ebola. Is the US prepared to handle 1,000 cases? NO? Then travel restrictions might be a good idea.

    There are several things wrong:
    1. The public health authorities haven't really had to deal with problems like this, and they are clearly unprepared. Public health, in general, is very good. few diseases threaten us.
    2. Public health authorities seem to be spending too much of their time doing soft science like researching obesity.
    3. There is a lack of imagination. There is a significant threat to public health, and those in charge failed to see it coming. It's important for them to get back on track. There are other diseases they may threaten us. (I am also very unimpressed with the lack of interest by the CDC in researching the outbreak of EV-D68.)

  74. It's almost as if... by acoustix · · Score: 1

    ...Obama has no leadership experience at all. He procrastinates making decisions, and when shit fails he blames someone else. He's never accountable for anything.

    Who would have thought that a community organizer and a state senator with a record number of "present votes" can't lead.

    Weird.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  75. Just another way to spend money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you think that the inherit fear of Ebola wasn't spread by the media in the first place, you would be wrong. Of course they are aware that an Ebola czar is unnecessary, it's just another way to waste taxpayers money. This Psychologist's perspective is just a mere observation of what is taking place, but I think it is just a distraction of what the real problem is, government fraud, waste and abuse. That coupled with fear mongering of the public to relinquish more of our freedoms and money.

  76. Re:What does require those things? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Truth is... the only thing that's really required is to Enjoy Barack Obama's Legacy America.

  77. Great Opportunity For USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the establishment of "Ebloa" Airport entry sites, the USA has now the opportunity window to kill thousands of human beings only to please the sexual desires of President Barak Hussein Obama, and his Kenyan Punta Government of the USA.

    At the designate airports, workers and machinery are now directed to dig 'Pits'. These Pits will be the holding cells of the thousands of travelers who enter the USA. The travelers will be striped of clothing and anything they carry. They will be dumped into the pits for "Observations." Such Observations will take not less than 21 calendar days. Meanwhile the US Treasury and State Departments will upon using the conficated credit cards of the travelers remove all money from their accounts and render their monies into the accounts of Barak Hussein Obama. Properties of the travelers will be forfeit to Barak Hussein Obama. Their original countries of residence will declare the travelers as Person Non Gratis, pending conversion of monies from Barak Hussein Obama into the Countries Presidents accounts by wire transfer.

    WoW I am Shocked and Awed by Obama.