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Autism: Are Social Skills Groups and Social Communication Therapy Worthwhile?
vortex2.71 (802986) writes I imagine that enough of us on Slashdot are on the Autism Spectrum or were once diagnosed as having Aspergers that this might be the right venue for this question. My son is on the spectrum, but is in a mainstream classroom at a private school. We have spent thousands of dollars on a bunch of different social skills groups, speech communication therapy, occupational therapy, and physical therapy. We've found that the specific skills and intuition that the therapists possess is much more important than their credentials and are frequently disappointed by the overwhelming mediocrity of special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists. We are at the point where we wonder if our time is better spent with playdates with peers that are facilitated by us than continuing with the groups. I'm curious if there are adult Slashdoters who are on the spectrum who participated in these therapies as children who can weigh in on this? What was your experience with social skills groups and social communication therapy? Did they help?
or were once diagnosed as having Aspergers
Yes, there are plenty of self-diagnosed Aspergers people on Slashdot. Unfortunately for them, the real problem is that they are simply assholes.
I'm not autistic or have any syndrome.
I'm just a nerd.
Kids time is already at such a premium.
No sir I dont like it.
If as you suggest the quality of therapists is all over the map, getting a "statistically significant representative sample" may require many more data points than you could get by asking /.
Not to mention that people who reply here will be self-selected and unlikely to be "representative" even if you were able to get enough data points.
Unfortunately, there are many things in this world that you have to decide whether to "buy in" to them or not long before you know if it's likely to be "worth the money" or not.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Quit making excuses for your lack of social skills, and quit expecting the world to adapt to you.
I never asked the world to adapt to me, it can just keep out of my way.
You have never met a severely autistic person, have you?
I would concentrate on something else entirely: excellent communication skills.
Lacking a degree of of social grace is forgivable if you can write and speak effectively.
Perhaps you should be looking less at speech communication therapy, and more at AP English.
You're an idiot. No matter what your mother told you Asperger's is not the next step in human evolution. A dash of it is probably useful, but people don't usually have a dash of it, I'm not sure it would even be diagnosable at that stage. I've worked with folks that had this and it's debilitating.
Psycho-social education is probably the only thing that's likely to help. The question though is which program and which professionals. There's an array of possibilities, some might work and some won't. And to an extent it depends upon the individual, this isn't a one-size fits all treatment situation.
They are not robots, they are people capable of learning social skills, just as they can learn math, art, and other human knowledge.
The question is do we know how to teach them?
I don't know a lot, but I am willing to bet that autistic people are as different from each other as they differ from us. The whole thing is a spectrum, what works with one won't necessary work with others.
I think you original idea is correct. No particular accreditation will satisfy you. You need to talk to the specific teacher/aid and hear what they have to say, what they know, and what is their guiding principle. If they impress you go with them. If not, ignore them.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
On the other hand what's the point in trying to be social and meet people when there are cunts like you out there.
It most likely improved the social skills but the expectation of the autistic spectrum individual becoming a charismatic, sales person is not likely.
I dare say the socially awkward persons that feel that they are able to contribute may be those for whom the treatment was effective. The others maybe be sitting anxiously at a keyboard wondering how to respond or click away to something else.
I knew a kid who went to the doc because she was low on energy all the time. Doctor prescribed this and that medication and to come back each month for a few months. He said she was low on iron and the pills would help.
Well, her mom never got the meds and instead forced her to eat more meat (she hardly ate anything). When they went back for the one month checkup, the doctor made a big deal about how well she was doing and that the medications were working wonderfully.
Sometimes the prescription is wrong. Maybe the kid needs more experiences with other kids in social settings. A little nudging helped in the kid from my story's case. Might help with you too. Nudge your child a little in the right direction.
I don't know why every other special group like gays and transexuals expects society at large to adapt to them, but I have to adapt to society?
I've never been diagnosed, a few online tests put me solidly Aspergers but that doesn't mean a whole lot. With that being said, for myself I've never been able to intuitively understand social interaction. Over time I've been able to think through social interaction and get a better handle on them.
My parents tried putting me in a learning disability freshmen orientation in college but I went to the normal orientation instead. I've found the best teacher is just time being around people. The more I observe, the more it seems to make sense.
And ultimately I've just come to the realization that we are all weird in our own way, anyone who can't handle that can stick to their own clan.
Quit making excuses for your lack of social skills, and quit expecting the world to adapt to you.
Are you expecting the world to adapt to you?
I've been diagnosed with borderline Asperberger, i.e., it wasn't specifically tested for, but 70% of other people who scored the way I did on certain tests also were diagnosed with Aspberger. I also have a son who's mildly affected, and is positively diagnosed.
This is a little off-topic relative to your questions, but here are some of the things we've found:
Get a friend and accept that you're different. There is nothing wrong with being different.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
I have met a few gay people who wished I would adapt to them, but I never met one who expected it. I think you need to explain yourself better.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
I'd say remember that your child does have a cognitive deficit. Autistics aren't as good at catching on to generalistic concepts as non-autistics. So things like social interactions are a better of a minefield.
But that doesn't mean they can't lead a healthy, happy life.
Personally, I'd say keep a journal, and note down stuff that you think you're child is having problems with, (speech problems, social interactions, physical problems, etc.) and then discuss it with their therapists. Give them a bit of time to address those issues. Rome wasn't built in a day. But if you find that they're ignoring you, or not really tackling the issues you're bringing up, find another therapist. Also network with other parents of autistic kids, and see who, and what they recommend.
We have 2 Autism Spectrum children and the best therapy is with the family and social circle. Both my wife and I have siblings with AS-Aspergers behaviors and I recall a childhood where I frequently engaged in behaviors that are today listed as AS-Asp behaviors. The therapy 40 years ago was a slap upside the head (by the other children or adults) and in large part it worked. I definitely learned how to look people in the eye and watch for social, emotional cues.
EMU in Ypsilanti has the Autism Collaborative/Community Center, and the church we attend (Northridge - Plymouth MI) has professional and/or just personally experienced volunteers that work with our children and others. My wife is really on the front line with the Collaborative Center, School Therapists and Private Therapists. The efficacy of the therapy or therapists is like a box of chocolates - so I see my wife taking what she knows about teaching from 20 years as a professional dance teacher and applying with the children herself along with the coordination of the therapy and training and evaluation of the therapists. A good experienced parent who is around while the therapy is going on can really help the therapists who are often EMU students or recent Graduates.
Babysitters / respite care workers can be just as important as "therapists". For a fraction of the cost of a therapist you can find someone who is emotionally engaging the child on a more frequent basis than the therapist can and who can quickly learn a lot of the behavior modification or instruction techniques that will aid in the child's development.
My ten year old daughter still can't read a two letter word or add two digits, and occasionally forgets that the potty is in the bathroom, but she can carry on a relevant conversation and is the nicest person who is happy to join in whatever everyone else is doing and is always happy to see whomever comes over. I know that has something to do with all of the nice people in her family, friends, school and therapists, who were nice to her, even if the therapy didn't necessarily accomplish her learning the specific skills the therapy was supposed to achieve.
All studies I've seen have suggested that more intervention, as early as possible, is ideal. The idea of play groups and other less formal types of socialization seems pretty good to me, perhaps it would serve as a better control for future studies (I'm not that well read, perhaps some research paper has already done this?).
The main point to all of this is that your son needs as much social opportunity as possible, and it needs to be NOW. That said, you can't really afford not to use as much of each option as you can. There is no opportunity to "fix" this later.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
My Aspie kid, now grown, was not happy with any of the play dates or social activities we planned for him. Until he was old enough to set goals for himself regarding sociability he resisted like fury. It's more important to tell the kid he'll be a late bloomer than place additional anxiety on him with the unspoken assumption that he 'needs to make friends'.
I know you are just trolling, but let's address that point.
The submitter seems to be doing whatever possible to raise the kid to NOT turn into a piece of shit. Let's encourage that. Leaving issues untreated is one way to seriously fuck up a kid. Let's discourage that.
I have a son in first grade on the spectrum. He is in a special education class for reading, writing, and math. He is in the mainstream class for other parts of the day (roughly 40%) with an aide who floats between him and a few other special needs children. He also has intermittent therapy sessions (OT/PT/Speech).
Overall, I wouldn't look at this as an all-or-nothing choice. Socialization and play dates are essential for building life experiences in an environment that is a little more "real world" without the stricter structure they might see with adults. On the other hand, at least with my son, there are some skills that are fairly underdeveloped that therapy and other guidance go a long way with.
The way I see it kids usually pick up a lot of these life skills on the fly through experience and general growth and maturity. But for an autistic child, there are some areas where they don't think the same as other kids and these skills are not easily developed on their own. Things like socialization, moderation of emotions, and dealing with stimuli that can sometimes be excessive. They need an adult to redirect them and directly help them learn these skills rather than letting them figure it out on their own.
I would stick with the therapies that you feel are working plus add in some play dates to exercise those skills. It has been my experience too that the individual therapist and their skillset and intuition are much more important than their credentials. Be observant, talk to your child if they are able to communicate, and learn what therapists and what techniques seem to resonate the most with your child. From what I've seen with my son, finding people he likes to work with that "get him" and his outlook on the world have gone a long way.
Best of luck!
They won't turn your screaming, rocking child into a well adjusted normal child, but you will occasionally get a hug and the screaming might go away.
1. i did not participate. my cousin did. he was diagnosed in 1996. i took him to his therapy during 1998-2002. 2. he liked the routine, and that was all. i watched several boys (no girls) entertain themselves for 1.5 hours per group session. 3. it didn't help anyone, or if it did, no one said so. i expected to hear about or see good outcomes whereby the therapist or organization would be able to point to an example of "we helped him"...but, there were none, ever.
> ... frequently disappointed by the overwhelming mediocrity of special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists. ...
You should take a look at our hospitals. From my observation, most of the nurses would also fall into that category. In my area, most of the nurses are 2 year, associate degree RNs, and they only went to nursing school because they could earn the best salary they could for a 2 year degree. They have never been taught to think, only to learn facts, but not have a clue as to how to apply them. They didn't go into nursing because they felt a calling to be a nurse. Most of them are at work only to catch up on the latest gossip. Heaven forbid, patients are such an inconvenience! Most of them are great examples of the Dunning-Krueger effect, not having a clue as to how incompetent they are.
A physician in Iowa
Meeting other people affected by Asperger/Autism/OCD can be quite harmful, it is much better to have a one-to-one meeting with a specialist. So keep him away from slashdotters, as well as train spotters, radio amateurs, and other people affected by DSM-4 pathologies.
Take a look at the GFCF diet, and ignore the anti-vac info/groups. One of our friend's children was diagnosed at ~4yo - he went from "normal" to completely introverted non-responsive almost overnight. Since then, they have done normal socialization (lots of sports) and the GFCF diet. If you didn't know their child was Autistic, you would probably be hard-pressed to glean that on you own.
I'm not here to give you an answer (I'm not qualified to do so, and I'm guessing neither are a lot of the people on ./); I just wanted to commend you on being an awesome parent and taking care of your kid. He/she's lucky to have (from what looks, and assuming you are) great parents. Essentially, In a way, with parents such as yourself, your kid's already halfway there.
Disclaimer: I'm actually diagnosed; and I don't have great parents (the kind that thought trying to beat the autism out of me was a good idea; it really, really wasn't) and it's really amazing to read how much effort you seem to have put in your kid so I wish you all the best and I hope you'll figure it out.
Good luck!
Note: if you haven't already you might wish to look in your area for a group of parents of Autistic kids; they might know more localized information (e.g. which therapists are good and which ones aren't; though, you shouldn't nessecarily take their word for it, but if 10 parents say XYZ is bad; XYZ probably is bad.).
First, I'll say that there's no one solution here. Autism is a tough thing to put into a single box and find a prescribed set of steps for. People with autism are still people, and we're all different in our approaches to the world around us.
That said, I totally get where you're coming from. My daughter is autstic, and we've spent an enormous amount of time and money on various therapies to help her interact more easily with the world around her. Notice that I didn't say, "change her," or, "cure her," or, "make her fit in." She's a wonderful person who just has a really hard time communicating with others and dealing with the sensory load that people live with all the time. I just want to help her develop the ability to compensate for that so she can have the opportunities to interact with others that she deserves.
But as you've found, it doesn't take long before you're a much better SLP, OT, PT, etc. than the people you're paying for that expertise and help. We've gone through countless therapists of various disciplines because while they had the credentials they had absolutely no practical experience or approach to dealing with autstic people. It's incredibly frustrating for me as a parent, and for my daughter, who really needs to build some long-term relationships with people but can't count on ever seeing the same providers because they either suck, are far too heavily booked because they don't suck, or burn out and go find something easier that pays better.
There are still further questions about whether any of the therapies are effective, since we've only got the one kid and there's no control group to measure against. She's smart and makes progress on her own, and we know how to effectively help her develop because we spend so much time with her. But is she getting any value out of a 45-minute OT session with somebody who's used to helping people learn to eat after a car accident? I have no idea.
But the one thing I do believe is important is to provide opportunities for social interaction. My daughter tends to ave more successful interactions with adults because they're patient and polite and understand that they're not dealing with a standard-issue kid. But it really breaks my heart to take her to a playground. She's cute and happy and wants to meet other kids, so she goes up to them and says, "Hi!" Then the other kid says hi. And then it all falls apart. She doesn't know how to get past that, and the other kids figure out that something weird is going on. They might say one or two more things, but then they give up and wander off. It's too big a barrier to overcome in a casual encounter, and they have better things to do.
Opportunities for mediated playdates are probably the best thing, and we're trying to do more of that. But at least for my girl, equipping her with a basic set of social skills to get past the introduction and on to some further interaction is the thing we struggle with most, and the one thing she needs more than anything else right now. Some of that is communication, but most of it is ritual and nonverbal queues. I think it can be taught - scripted at first, then more natural over time - and should be a priority.
In the end, as a parent, I want my daughter to be happy in life. She's destined to be weird/quirky/odd, and I think that's OK. Like many people here, I work in a field that has a large portion of people who fit that description and I appreciate that. If she chooses to be alone, that's one thing. But I'm going to do everything I can to help her get to the point where she can choose how and when to socialize and to find the people who make her happy and comfortable. Like the OP, I'm interested in hearing from those on the spectrum who are now adults, and their path to where they are now. But please remember that not all autistic people have that choice or capability. There's a selection bias that can't be avoided in soliciting that information, so interpret the responses accordingly.
Unless you plan on living like a hermit out in a forest that you don't own, the world will not and cannot "keep out of your way."
Every piece of food you eat each day needs to be grown, harvested, and shipped by somebody. Every piece of clothing you buy was made and shipped by somebody. The electricity that you are using to read this post was generated by somebody.
Your existence is built atop all these ongoing efforts by an army of other people. They should not, and will not, do all this for you for free. You must give something back to justify all that effort.
You cannot escape the world so long as you live off it.
Perhaps a key part of the problem is that neurotypicals are the ones that are 'pieces of shit' that don't develop the skills to work with people who think in a manner different than their own. If they bothered to work on their ability to empathize and make themselves understood better, the lives of autistics could probably be a great deal better, in addition to society being able to benefit from more productive citizens and less citizens who are a burden.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Yes. It is important for this reason.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Why hand the job off to somebody else? You've admitted that the ability of the therapists is variable. How much time do you spend with your son? Do you explain to him the silly rituals that most people go through that he does not understand? Do you constantly reinforce that if he goes along with these silly rituals, (shaking hands, looking people in the eye when talking to them, not fiddling when engaging in conversation, not suddenly changing the subject, graceful exits, etc. etc. etc.) that life will go much more smoothly? Maybe it makes more sense for YOU to go to some special class. Why don't YOU learn to teach these skills to your son? He'll probably eventually figure it out himself. Personally, I think the more interaction with the "normal" world the better. He will figure it out. "I do this, they do that, I don't understand why, but they do." The more doing, the more he'll figure it out. Putin, though, geez, just give back the ring, dude! Like my friend who will just grab your slice of pizza without asking, and doesn't understand why you would mind. OK, maybe socialization won't fix everything.
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As we all know, some very intelligent people have aspergers or have been on the autism spectrum.
As one of these people, I would have liked to tell my parents to let me do what I wanted to do, and nurture the skills that I had. They fought my aspergers/add/whatever with medications. Horrible years of my life, those...
Are you or his mother musically inclined? Go buy him a 100 dollar guitar. Show him some videos on youtube. Does he like to take things apart? Take him to somewhere that used to be like radio shack. Start building something on your own and see if he jumps in. He might be a very skilled carpenter, but you will never know these things unless you provide the climate for where he can flourish.
My daughter has Autism. Not only have we found therapy for social communication, as well as social skills groups, very helpful. They gave her the opportunity to learn, and practice, each skill in a very minute, deliberate, and understandable way. She also developed real, reciprocal relationships with other children for the first time in her life.
At the age of 15, she is still immature for her age, but most people do not think anything is amiss with her. This is a huge contrast with how she was prior to diagnosis, and was accomplished with about 5 years of weekly therapy. Normal girls are still difficult for her to understand and relate to, so she compensates by using the skills she has to make herself useful in any situation, and usually hangs with the guys for fun. We are hosting an Axis & Allies tournament over the long weekend.
Also, we moved her to a Weston A. Price diet, which helps with a lot of the cognitive & concentration issues.
I have twins with an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (it's hard to narrow it down because it doesn't really fit any of the DSM4 categories.) I've not found that /formal/ social skills work is very helpful. What seems to work better is finding situations where they can have positive social engagement with people who "get it". As you observed, I've found that the particular training is much less relevant than whether the person "gets" people on the spectrum. A lot of people just don't understand how kids on the spectrum think, and they never will.
For us, our church was a great resource for an understanding, friendly group of people who knew us well enough to know that the twins needed special gentleness in social situations. But I don't think that would be true of every church.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
My wife worked with some talented therapists and had no doubts there could be enormously beneficial aspects to working with insightful, skilled professionals.
To expect anything from a special education teacher that would be more than minimal classroom management modifications is probably not realistic in all but the very wealthiest (top 1%) schools, which have multiple secondary educational aids and extremely small class sizes. The special education classrooms in most districts are loaded up with kids with other behavioral problems that are likely to further exacerbate the issues someone on the spectrum with experience.
All the therapy in the world won't help a condition that affects your neurology. Signals will still get scrambled going to and from the brain. You can know the correct thing to say, and hear yourself saying something else because the signals got scrambled while your brain was sending them to your mouth. You will still miss every other word someone says to you because you have to constantly switch your brain from one stimulus to another to process everything going on. Some therapy may have limited value, but it won't have much effect.
I believe that most with autism, of whatever brand, can be helped with guidance from the right person.
My mother is amazing with this. She worked with kids 14 to 21 years old. She made several learn to speak, use words and ask for things instead of just pointing or making noises when wanting something. She was even able to reach those that other ‘professionals’ had said would never be able to speak, function in society, or hold a real job.
In addition, she was able to find jobs for them, she even got a few jobs at Microsoft and Nintendo. She would figure out what they were naturally good at and reach out to business that would be able to use their skills.
One guy I got to meet a few times was amazingly fast at sorting. She got him a job at the post office, and he has been working there for years now. When he first started working with her, he would only make grunting noises, screeching noises and shove chairs and desks when he got frustrated. Now he is a functioning member of society.
My mom just ‘gets’ these people, and it seems that few do. She ended up leaving the school system a few years back because it was a more of a struggle working with the schools then actually helping these kids.
I've met people who think I'm sort of crazy. Aspergers and ADHD are mentioned.
Here's my take on it:
I do have concentration problems. I am absolutely positively 100% sure that those are due to bad/suboptimal diet and stress during my time in the womb and during early childhood. There is solid scientific evidence that stress in early childhood influences the brain, the perception and self-esteem/perception. That influences behaviour and social standing. No two ways about it. I consider quite a bit of my fellow humans behaviour bizar, unexplainable, pointless and silly. I'm a hunter gatherer in a settler/farmers world. I have a range of choices for my life: Rebel, Leader, Visionary, Terrorist, Criminal, Artist, Specialist.
Being a "normal" person by todays standards is *not* one of them.
I also suspect that I am above average intelligent and thus a lot of what I do or say, although smart, may actually appear crazy to people around me. The problem is that smart people look like crazy people to normal people.
>>>It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. - Jippu Krishnamurty
My last years of school I spent in Waldorf School. It was a Godsend. Art, Manual Crafts, Stagecraft/Performing Arts, Music and vivid practical scientific education. Not a dull moment in School - ever.
I would strongly recommend that you see to it that your kid gets a broad education, and not just the brain treatment, but practical skills and a solid foundation in arts. He'll learn to express himself, he'll learn that there is more to life then the wreckage we often call society and he will also learn humility towards people who fly under the radar in other way - doing manual work or 'unintellectual' labor. Send him to the scouts.
Watch out for nutrition, minimalise media consumption and have him do adventure sports.
And he will also learn to turn the fact that he is a little different into a huge advantage.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I once had asparagus.
I'm a 40+ male. Years ago, when growing up I was what would now be considered minor to mid on the autistic scale. I didn't care much to communicate or look people in the eye. It made me uncomfortable. I talked only when asked direct questions and as little as possible. I loved taking my toys apart, play with the parts, not the toys themselves. When my parents got their first VCR, I promptly took it apart and caught hell for it. I put it back together and it worked perfectly.
I went to a private school and in 4th grade my parents were told I had a learning "disability". I pretty much zoned out in class cause I was bored out of my mind. In 5th grade the math teacher debated with my parents about holding me back a year. I gave a fuck and dreamed about making rockets in class and other cool things I could do with my chemistry kit at home. We just got a computer (IBM XT) and I would dream about what I could do with it at home while at school. They passed me on to 6th grade. In 6th grade we had a new teacher come in and she immediately recognized I was bored out of my skull. Best teacher I've ever had. She gave me what amounted to 9th grade work with very little instruction and let me puzzle it out myself.
As soon as I became engaged at school and actually had shit to do that was challenging, I started interacting with other kids. That was the key for me. It may be something else for others.
I had a stuttering issue. I went to therapy for it, but it had nothing to do with the root cause of WHY they thought I was stuttering. It all disappeared in 6th grade. I went to other "therapy" sessions, one on one, and in groups. They were useless. Completely useless for me.
No one EVER thought to ask my why I was like I was or if they did, they never put it in a way in which I understood what they were asking. If they ever had I would of told them what they were teaching me was useless, boring, and utterly not worth my time. I'm guessing that's how most kids on the minor end of the spectrum feel... that's how I did.
So to summarize, for me therapy sitting with a doctor, talking about my day, how I felt, ect was useless. The stuttering therapy where I recited idiotic phrases over and over, useless. A teacher that understood I was bored out of my fucking mind, priceless.
Find that teacher, or that activity, or whatever it is for your son and it'll unlock him to some degree. I'm guessing the farther along on the scale the less it'll work.
As an adult now I'm a Type A, but I still have to remind myself to look someone in the eye when I shake their hand. I lose myself in books, and don't enjoy TV like others do. There are lingering differences between me and what others would be consider "Normal" but I'd bet I'm probably the only one that notices.
I personally teach kids with autism. I have also been around classrooms with kids in autism. Purposeful, intelligent socialization led by an adult who understands kids with autism will make a big difference to social skills. There are little things like eye contact that make a huge different to their life experiences. I have recommended social groups many times, and the kids have found the experience rewarding. I have also given specific pointers that have made large differences, but the social groups did a lot of the foundation laying for success.
If I had a child with autism, I would certainly send them to a social group. Of course I'd look around for the best I could find.
Because part of our success in the grand evolution game is that we're intelligent, and can learn from each other. By continuing to do that, you're not "stopping evolution", only reinforcing that we're good at surviving and breeding because we can educate each other.
Scheduling playdates for your son is a recipe for bitterness and disappointment. Without feedback or direction for what the proper behaviour is, the end result will be ridicule and ostracism. Over and over. And this will continue into his adult life.
Since your son has no "feel" for interaction, the best you can get is an "intellectual appreciation" for correct behaviour. He has to learn the skill that everyone else will pick up naturally.
The first half is to get him to want to learn. You do this by rewards and other incentives, as outlined by any of a number of teaching methods. Sit down with him at regular scheduled intervals, be sure to show appreciation when he does things correctly, and show disappointment when he screws up. When he screws up, do the disappointment thing *quickly* and move on. Promise him a big reward at the end of a semester of these if he does well, and follow up on it (take him to an arcade, get him a specific toy, take him snorkeling in Hanauma bay, whatever.) Little rewards at intervals is good too (take him out for ice cream, his special time with his dad &c).
Make him want to change.
The second half is being able to recognize his behaviour *yourself* and communicate to him instantly. I cannot describe how incredibly difficult this is, you have to be alert for specific patterns and people are just not wired to do this. People go through their daily lives on autopilot, and don't normally evaluate what they're hearing/seeing/doing on a continual basis. It's s a difficult skill that needs to be developed through discovery and practice.
The problem with therapists is that the feedback isn't immediate. The therapist might be able to analyze and correct and connect with your son, but your son will tend to forget outside the session. Like I said, most people are on autopilot and changing the autopilot programming is hard.
When you get the ability to recognize his behaviour, simply say "ding!" when you see it.
It's immediate feedback, and when he hears it he should stop to consider what he's doing and change his behaviour. That's all it takes.
Be very clear that saying "ding!" doesn't mean you're angry with him or that he should stop or that he's being punished. It's simply a signal, and it's not meant to get him to stop, it's meant to get him to *think*. Also be very clear that he can ask you why you said it, and that there's no penalty for doing this.
Start with small, obvious behaviours such as repetitive habits or sentence construction, then slowly work into tactical advice (always look someone in the eye, always ask how they are doing, always remember their name), then into strategic advice ("never lie to a friend", "never tell something told to you in confidence"), then into planning advice (see what other people do and imitate them, dress like them, try to act like them).
Get a copy of "How to Make Friends and Influence People" (Dale Carnegie) and use it as a syllabus for what to teach. Also check out "Influence, the science of persuasion" as a guide for what to watch out for (so that others don't take advantage of him).
Best of luck to you.
Will do wonders! My aspie child has benefitted ENORMOUSLY from this, improving his focus, concentration, social skills and balance (both physical and mental). Not to mention he'll be able to kick someone's ass if they bully him or try drop a bucket if crap on him ...
If the kid does not want play dates, I would not force them. Find a way to make time with the kid happy and learning or exploring his world - if this occurs at the specialist's, great, if it occurs at a museum where the kid is essentially alone looking at exhibits or just with you, great. Sometimes kids like individual sports such as swimming. Childhood is short! good luck. But, I'm not autistic and no expert, just a Mom.
Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome (now high functioning autism) at the age of 19. I went through 2 or 3 years of therapy (though not the therapy you described, mine was just one on one with a therapist), but what helped me the most (in my experience) is that I read an ungodly amount of fiction between then and now (I'm 30 years old now). Books really describe how people think, and I've found that if I interpret what people do based on what authors say people think in books I'm usually not far off. That is, I'm close enough that interpreting people based on what I've read in books is close enough to the truth that it doesn't lead to major social fuck ups. When I was in high-school (ie., before I was diagnosed), teachers would sometimes get mad at me for what I thought then was 'no reason', but I now understand that it was caused by my behavior.
For example, I remember one time when my 9th grade German teacher asked the class about our 8th grade German teacher, and I said that he was a huge asshole. This caused the teacher to flip his shit, but I had no idea why, because he and the 8th grade German teacher were clearly different people, so why would my opinion of the one affect the other? I now understand that my use of language was inappropriate, as well as that they were probably friends, or that it is inappropriate to shit on one teacher in front of another one in a classroom setting.
I'm basing my interpretation of my memory of what happened then on what I've read in the (among others) Harry Potter series. Interactions with teachers and classmates are explained very well there. I may not be able to intuitively feel what is the right way to behave, but because I have a good memory and because I read so much I'm usually able to determine what's going on now. So, in my experience, reading has been more fruitful than therapy.
How would they be able to tell if their therapy helped?
Ask their friends and family if *they* think the therapy helped them--you'll get a much better answer.
Sounds like your child is developing coping mechanisms on their own, or at least you feel that is the case. The diagnosis is not a stamp of disapproval or failure. It is a doorway to monitoring and assessments.
One of the problems with Adam Lanza (the shooter in newtown, ct) was that he was not really effectively monitored or effectively treated. Early on, he didn't need much treatment, but when middle school hit... he could have benefited from meds/therapy, but his mother prevented the treatment he needed to help develop coping mechanisms. His father was also worn-down and eventually moved to appease rather than seek the help Adam needed that would have probably prevented the tragedy. There is formal report detailing Adam Lanza's treatments and lack of treatments from age 3 to his ultimate breakdown and murders/suicide.
The key takeaway I got from that report (as the step-father of an ASD diagnosed boy--now 13yrs old) was that monitoring is important so you know what type of help to seek. If your Therapist/Dr. recommend that type of activity to help you and your family -- you should aggressively pursue it(you all have to develop coping mechanisms... not just the child!). If you don't think it is helping anymore... Put the professionals on the spot! Make them tell you what your child should be getting from those groups (and your hard-earned cash!) and where else it could be obtained. What worked last year may not be effective this year... and health professionals get lazy if you let them. (The system encourages them to just collect fees for saying 'hi'... but they really can be helpful if pressed.) If you aren't getting answers you like, get a referral from that dr's office or from someone else in the groups--or if you are despirate, look down the list of providers in your area that accept your insurance (or at least some of it...)
Keep at it as children often have more trouble in middle/highschool than they did before. MIddle/Highschool is the roughest time for ASD children and that's when the therapy early on is supposed to be helpful.
Approaches that don't feel like real life can be less effective than others, because one of the overarching themes is integration of knowledge.
If a skill is taught in a clinical setting, the child will become better at it. In a clinical setting.
For help with social interaction, someone that will come onsite and help mediate social interaction is generally better than slogging into an office.
Approaches that don't feel like therapy are better than ones that do.
The child needs to feel accepted and normal, and not pathologized.
So by all means, get as many playdates as you can.
It's amazing what feeling a little love will do.
And clear sight.
For my child, the first light of dawn appeared on his face the moment we realized that Autistic was an appropriate descriptor.
He knew he had a difficult problem before we did, and the "knowledge is power" thing turned out to be a big deal.
I highly recommend The Play Project - playproject.org
They had a very healthy perspective towards the child, which helped me to align myself with the good angel on my shoulder.
It is about meeting the child where they are and letting them show you what they need,
and someone came to our house once a month to observe, take video, and comment - so we had a third party to see how things were going "in real life" and provide perspective.
It was expensive, but even at an IT level salary, there were grants to fund 50% of the cost.
I am a parent of a 15 year old with Asperger's, not an aspie myself, though I am a silicon valley engineer with lots of peers on spectrum.
This isn't an either or situation. My son is in mainstream public high school, spends time with peers in various contexts, and is in an excellent facilitated social skills group. The group helps him understand the dynamics at work in his peer interactions better, and in a way that minimizes the sense of not fitting in. It gives him a chance to ask questions that would be hard to ask without calling unnecessary attention to the things he doesn't get. It isn't so much about changing his behavior in any prescribed fashion, as it is about helping him understand the interactions he is in. This does change his behavior, but only indirectly insofar has he has better insight into what is at work. His behavior and responses are entirely him, just better informed.
Why stop human evolution?
Not really evolution though.
Most humans on the Asperger's / Autism spectrum either aren't interested in finding a mate, or are unattractive to the majority of the opposite sex.
As a result, the genetic mutation isn't passed on.
Look out, everybody. We got us a badass autist here. Better step outta his way.
Brother, the world doesn't operate on our terms. We operate on the world's terms
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/....
We have gone through many of these therapies for our son and they were pretty much all worthless.
The autism epidemic has become a nice business for all these "therapists" who just scam insurance companies and parents.
We had once case where an O/T charged $150 / hr for basically putting my son on a swing and swinging him.
Don't even get me started on ABA. A trained monkey could do it.
We've had most success ever since we started running an intensive Son-Rise therapy program for our son at home.
It has brought more smiles, language and interaction from him than anything else in the past.
Every autism family should discover it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-CTtLzojQ
http://www.autismtreatmentcenter.org/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeJUK-rXcyQ
I think you should look for literature review papers in a reputable scientific journal (ranks high in impact factor among similar journals in the field, or is something you've heard of like JAMA or The Lancet), written by authors who have published extensively on the subject. Google scholar might be a good place to start (e.g., like this).
I'm not saying not to listen to anecdotes and personal experiences, but those things are highly colored by wishful thinking and political animus. You may well find useful and constructive ideas, but you'll also need a counterweight to the heat and noise and boatloads of personal opinion. You need a filter. Until an expert researcher publishing in a reputable journal is forced to take an idea seriously, there is not enough evidence for you to take it seriously either.
Now that I've warned you off personal anecdotes, let me relate a personal anecdote. My sister had an autistic son, back in the day where Bruno f*cking Bettleheim was the worlds foremost "expert" on autism. His theory was that autism was caused by bad moms, what he called "refrigerator mothers" -- narcissistic women who were so self-absorbed they couldn't give their children the emotional nurturing they needed. Fortunately she had a masters degree in social work and had been a practicing social worker for ten years. So she set out to get him all the practical help he needed, including evidence-based social therapy. The result isn't that he's "cured" -- whatever that means. He was not magically turned into different, neurotypical person. He grew up into an autistic man who functions confidently in a world dominated by neurotypical people.
Finally let me address you as a parent. I know things are tougher for parents of autistic kids. Way, way tougher. But also keep in mind that parenting in general is tough. Children have a way of not giving you what you need emotionally and demanding things from you when you're not ready to give them. So while a lot of what you're going through most parents don't go through some of them they do. You've got to believe in your ability to make the right choice, and tolerate and forgive yourself for an occasional mistake. There's a whole culture out there that likes to make parents feel inadequate and anxious, and they especially like to prey upon parents who seem vulnerable. So don't be. Also you don't mention whether you have other kids, but if you do make sure you carve out a little time to focus on them. It won't seem like enough, but if you make the effort it will be.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Hello. Sorry about posting anonymously, my husband is the one with the account. He and my 8th grade son are both on the spectrum, though at the very low end.
Kids with unusual speech and behavior are magnets for teasing and cruelty. I think it depends on how severely your son is affected. We have taken our son to a few social therapy groups and individual counseling for specific issues but not on an ongoing basis. Because he is on the low end of the spectrum, he has been able to make a few friends at school.
Our approach has been to have a lot of "hang outs" at our house with awesome snacks, video games, computer games, etc. Things that he excels at and other kids enjoy. By letting them do simultaneous play on electronics he gets to be in a comfortable environment while steel enjoying and learning from his peers. They seem to be able to overlook his awkward moments. Another thing that helps is when the other kids are a year or two younger. He goes to a charter school, with a zero tolerance bullying, teasing, policy and it is strictly enforced.
On the positive, I have been married to my awesome husband for sixteen years and he is the love of my life. I love how straightforward he is, honest, loyal, and always growing. I wouldn't trade my life with him for anything. Knowing that he has Asperger’s (or is "on the spectrum") is such a blessing. Yes, some people are a-holes, but he is not one of them. Once, I understood the diagnosis, it allowed us to communicate differently and more productively and grow as a couple. I wish you the best with your hard decisions.
By the way, in response to some of the posts - Asperger’s was not removed as a diagnosis because it didn't exist. It was added to Autism Spectrum disorder with kids who would have been diagnosed with Asperger’s being highly functional. Since the struggles and behavior of kids on one end of the spectrum are vastly different from kids on the other, many of us still use the term to differentiate.
Sounds like you're describing it? 80% or 90% are poor while only 20%-10% are great.
In other words, yes, you're throwing away 80% of your money for just the 20% that works. The real question is, has that 20% helped?
You are asking the question in the wrong forum! Most of these answers were either rude, off point or misinformed. Google "Autism speaks" and look at similar sites where there are families who have researched and educated themselves along with "experts" on aspergers . As parent of an Aspie son I agree wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of providers. At the risk of offending the few who are competent, way too many are mediocre at best in these fields and apply cookie cutter solutions to kids who are uniquely unique. Any informed expert will tell you that any two Aspie kids will have such widely varied profiles that you can't possibly have a one size fits all strategy. These kids, and adults, have a long list of co-morbid issues from sensory processing to mood regulation to dyslexia to AdHD to sleep disorders and more. I found social groups of small help to our son, though better than none. If he is young, play therapy works well. In hindsight I believe the earliest interventions are most effective. Providers who naturally are intuitive with your kid are priceless regardless of their credentials as you wisely observed.
And yes as a technology focused family we agree that this field would be a great resource for finding folks on the spectrum, but look for those who have done educated research when asking for opinions!
First, let me say that I'm sorry for all the trollish responses. Unfortunately, that's part and parcel when dealing with ASD, especially the high functioning end. You'll probably get a better response, and better signal to noise ratio, from an ASD-specific site, such as http://aspiescentral.com/ . I encourage you to ask there, as well.
Unfortunately, I was not diagnosed until I was in my 20s (Asperger's wasn't in the DSM when I was of prime age for someone catching it, and I'm a woman and considered "gifted," which made me even more likely to fall through the cracks of the system), so I didn't get the early interventions. However, I can share my experiences from *not* having those services available to me.
Without knowing to what level your son is Autistic, and without knowing him personally, it's hard to say whether he's benefiting from the interventions. However, I would say that they're likely better for him than informal playdates. Keep in mind, though, that he may be benefiting, but doesn't have a way to demonstrate his understanding. Additionally, he may benefit in the long run from the things he's learning now.
The problem with informal playdates is that they lack the structure needed for an Autistic child to learn from the encounters. Very often, such situations (as with school if a child goes undiagnosed or the school doesn't accommodate the child) result in confusion and stress, because the situation seems more chaotic to an Autistic than it does to a Neurotypical. Most Autistics have some level of sensory processing delay, and interactions such as playdates (especially if there is more than one other person) leads to the Autistic to get overwhelmed more easily and various mental faculties simply cease working as intended.
This sensory processing delay also means that social situations are going to always be a struggle in one form or another. Some of us can get fairly good at it, while others struggle for the rest of their lives. Even the best of us have our limits, though, before it starts becoming too much, so make sure you're not expecting the therapists to give him the social ease and grace of a neurotypical child. In other words, make sure your expectations are in line with what he's really capable of achieving right now.
Additionally, Autistics generally thrive on structure, routine, and general predictability. The intervention therapies help provide that, because they know how to handle the children who need it and can adapt to the child's needs. Playdates can't do that (however, more structured things, such as the suggestion in a previous response for martial arts, may work better, due to their enforced structure).
On the other hand, what is his schedule like? Does he have sufficient time to spend doing the activities that recharge him? Is he provided time to spend on his special interest or to do what he chooses, by himself? From the list you provided, it seems his schedule may be pretty busy. If so, make sure he has these times to himself, as that is when he'll process all that input he's received, as well as relax and unwind from all the stimulation. If it's not as busy as it sounds, then structured therapy and other activities (such as less structured playdates) don't have to be mutually exclusive. He can start to learn to apply what he learns in therapy to social interactions with peers -- ideally with someone who understands and accepts him and wants to help him.
That said, if you don't think the therapists you have access to are working, definitely consider different ones. Have you worked with your local school district? The public school may be a better fit for him than the private school, depending on availability of resources. For example, my school district has a great special needs program that is available free of cost to my son, and has helped tremendously.
Finally, don't necessarily get caught up in getting him to communicate or do things the same ways you do, but help him find ways
A behaviour therapist in the area has made simply stated, amazing progress with Austic children using less than conventional methods.
The main technique he used was in-house, all day LSD/Mushroom trips, depending on how trapped in their own mind the child was.
The net result, was during the trip, each child was basically in awe with the surrounding, intently focused outwards on the objects that were once familiar. And generally a ot more calm and quiet during. And as the day wore on, and ended. The child was talked to, kept calm, music playing.
This led to every one of the patients having an amazing transformation. (I'm sure that they intentionally omitted mentioning any children that didn'th ave an amazing transformation)
One kid actually started to put in a very, very concerted effort concentrating trying to speak words and to verbally communicate.
Others were much calmer and generally easier to integrate into day-to-day living.
Sure they were all still outside the band of "normal", but they all made unbelieveably progress towards it, that the parents are universally thinking it's a miracle.
All this said,
LSD was used for those who were semi-responsive to the outside world. (more common cases)
Mushrooms were used for those who were not in tune with their bodies (immobile, lots of flailing, etc;)
The sessions were done in the childs home, with parents around, calming classical music playing and just watching and idly interacting with the child. But otherwise letting the child calmly work thruogh the experience.
The first session had the psychiatrist around to guide the child, calmingly talk to the child, and to help the parents who haven't had experinecs with said substances, understand what was going on, and what to expect.
This definitely isn't a "drug up your kids and let them have a trip" lots of effort went into ensuring it was a good trip for teh child, and to allow the child to start to mentally focus on the external world.
I don't really know what the american way in that again is ... sounds as always: another new industry to exploit wealthy parents.
People lack social skills because they did not learn/pick them up when young (very young), diagnosting that later as 'Asperger' or however you want do call it since that 'name' is 'gone' does not make it an 'illness'.
The best way to teach kids about 'social' behaviour is letting them learn a martial art. (A real one, not some 'fighting system' like Krav Maga etc.)
The reason is: they come into the groop as 'nobody' at the lowest level of the social ladder. Everyone is above them in the hierarchy. However everyone will treat them with respect, and only expects respect in return. Everything is ritualized, The training starts with the greeting, and ends with a greeting. You start practicing with a partner, you start with a greeting. You end practicing with a partner, you do a greeting. If the teacher comes over and gives corrections, you thank with a greeting. Depending on school you are sitting while the teacher gives corrections.
The point about all this is: you always know what to do. You never feel uncomfortable or wonder what is expected from you now.
Over time you climb in hierarchy, as more newcomers join. You are supposed to be an good example for them, and so you never are or feel excluded or not part of the group. In the long run it does not really matter how much you change your behaviour, you automatically transform into silver back.
Regardless what you do with your life, be it a software developer or a reporter, with 15+ years martial arts and a silver back feeling you are percieved different by people. And that is mirrored back to you and you feel more comfortable amoung them.
Not to mention that black belts etc. come automatically with time you invest into martial arts. Something you achieved alone, not because the school, parents, society put you under pressure for. And certainly something not everyone has in our times.
I doubt any courses of social interaction will help as much as just doing a team sport or much better a martial art, that is taught in groups but excersised individually. To easy to be the 'ass of the team' if the whole team is mobbing you.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I have two children with it, and they're at different points in the spectrum. One is closer to "normal." He doesn't grasp social constructs, but if they are explained, he'll happily follow them. So if you fall down a flight of stairs, he will watch, then say "I'm so sorry, can I go get help?" because we've taught him "That person could be hurt. You should check on them and offer help." The other is further out there. She neither grasps constructs nor cares about them. She would laugh about you falling down the stairs because it looked funny to her. If asked if she thinks it hurts, she would probably say "I don't know, and you should ask her." For the first one, these therapies are HUGELY helpful. If taught carefully the rules of society, he'll follow them to the letter, and be happy doing it. For the second one, these therapies are very moderately helpful in curbing the worst behaviors. So, it depends.
www.voiceofthehive.com - Beekeeping and Honeybees for those who don't.
Currently in a group (to maintain privacy we'll call it M) that is run by the Disability Office of a university, and it could be considered a social skills group of people on the Autism Spectrum, but is mainly about helping people on the spectrum with college life (academically, socially, bureaucratically). I just brought up this question during one of our regular meetings. Here are some people's thoughts. (Not Verbatim; didn't get one person's permission to use their name, so they shall be called P)
Amy (staff): Try to get people on spectrum to interact with like-minded peers on an intellectual level.
P: It depends on teacher and their approach to it. Social skills should be "spelled out" by peers that get it [the difficulty of understanding social skills and were able to codify them]. It depends on the individual and teacher.
Erin: In our [sub]group [of M], we don't see progress we make, just over time made a group that learned skills together.
Bradley: Hanging around the Disability Office, and joining clubs helped me.
Olivia: Joined school up after cliques were established, got one friend and pretty much only one that is still with me, also on spectrum. Friend needed to have a "filter"; the kids in M all get each other.
Erin: Ya, some of us [the subgroup] go out into the real world together to "practice" social skills.
Amy: A person on the spectrum should get direct feedback from people they trust to develop social skills.
Olivia: Helped to manage my violence by spending four years away from guys to develop academics and to feel normal.
Bradley: Went to all-public school, wasn't most social person; I realized later in junior and senior year the kind of person some people I was friends with were, I was like "how did you get a C in Photography?"
Erin: All the people who wanted to "fit-in" in high-school aren't together anymore, they were a hivemind, no diversity, [so don't worry about "fitting-in," just be yourself].
If you're going to special education teachers, speech therapists, and OT/PT therapists, you're going to the wrong people. Those people may be able to help in a limited role, but a ABA therapists is more what you're looking for to work on all-the-above.
With a son with Aspergers, I would call around to ABA therapy centers and see if they have peer groups. It sounds like that is exactly what you are looking for. When my wife worked at a local center as an office admin, my son with Aspergers went as a "client", and my middle son went as a volunteer peer. Sometimes my son would be paired up with another individual on the spectrum, other times a volunteer. It all depended on what aspect of communication they were going to work on.
My life in a nutshell
At least you won't have to worry that he spends all his time on Social Networks.
Work in quality assurance, bug searching, piloting or anything that requires a strict adherence to rules, is fantastic for most of them.
There are companies actively searching for such people as employees.
They don't see the 'coolness' in breaking rules.
Contrary to so called 'normal' people, these guys and girls are actually able to follow the rules, all of them, all the time.
They are a plus for every workplace, where the work is done, just not at the watercooler.
I'm sorry, but YOU are the idiot. Autism is not a disease. The problem is not autism, it's neurotypical people who need to have things their way. Don't be a part of a neurotypical person pointless social rituals and the little asshole will do whatever he can to hurt you. So your solution is to make sure autistic people learn a way which is not and will never be natural for them because YOU can't tolerate someone else not playing your social games? Fuck you. The best thing that could help autistic people is if YOU went to therapy to cure your social obsession.
Every fucking day of my life I have to act. I can never be myself or I will be hated. Of course I'm now quite good at acting and playing your stupid social games, but having to constantly play a role is extremely tiresome. After a simple two hours meeting with a client, which I have to do frequently because neurotypicals need to have social contacts even when working, it seems they can't think if their social instinct is not satisfied, I'm so tired I need to alone with my cats at least for a full day. Yes, it's debilitating, but it's not autism per se which is debilitating, it's me having to play your idiotic social games.
You should try to play by my rules. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't last more than a few days before saying being "neurotypical" is debilitating and need to be treated.
First, as someone trained in scientific method and who values that method, I want to iterate that one anecdote does not speak for an entire population. :)
That said, what follows is a brief description of what symptoms I've dealt with, and how "dealt with" has been realized for me in a couple instances. I will refer to y'all as "normals" through this writing for brevity, be offended if you wish but it's merely a term. I have rarely spoken to others about this, so I apologize if my language describing my perceptions is sloppy or inaccurate, I've had little opportunity to practice speaking these concepts.
SUMMARY: It is my opinion that family and forgiving social contacts are the far and away best method to help teach an autistic person about social norms of behavior as well as management mechanisms for emotional control, muscular coordination or other symptoms. A safe (constructive, forgiving, calm, but DEMANDING) environment in which to experiment is paramount, and I never once have found that environment outside of family (including two adopted family) and the closest of social contacts.
My original diagnosis was Aspergers. For me, this includes (my words):
-- low or lacking natural emotional inhibition (their words: lack of or low function in the protective circuits between the amygdala and frontal cortex that serve to "protect" logical decision making from emotional responses)
-- sensory-emotional linkage that turns many stimuli into fight or flight responses
-- from the two above, a propensity for emotional/stimulus "overload" which can escalate to fugue states or tantrums
-- immense difficulty formulating speech, while interpretation seems "normal"
-- "one track" thinking, not only do I fixate on one track of thought, but I also understand anything in only one way, cause and effect; if I can't come to an understanding of the cause and effect of something, I do not understand and I will grill you mercilessly until I can tease apart the cause and effect
-- inability to accurately interpret facial expressions and body language
-- inability to mimic from visual observation; I can't copy someone without going through their motions side by side as they do it, I cannot observe and then copy later
-- muscular control problems; I've always had tremors and the stronger my emotional load becomes, I get twitches and muscular ticks even to the point of my arms and hands doing things I don't realize they are doing.
That's the high points, and before you think "aw, poor you," I actually started on the high functioning end of things and have improved since. Until recently, in fact, most casual observers never detected the "strangeness." Usually, it's a surprise when someone first detects that I don't quite interact with the world the same way they do. The result of that is a strikingly binary reaction from normals. Either you love my childlike wonder, nearly endless energy and unique perspective on almost anything OR you hate my childlike immaturity, annoying inappropriate emotional displays, and my arrogance in refusing to agree with you (because I'm the "broken" one, after all, right?). :)
In general, I was in formal therapy until age 10. Those therapies were largely ineffective, and eventually I begged to stop going due to sheer boredom primarily, but also because I felt judged, estranged and alienated by the way the therapists treated me. If I didn't understand (cause and effect!), then I would grill them mercilessly, they would become immediately frustrated that I just wouldn't cooperate and do what I was told, and once their emotions got going mine would go through the roof in response. An entirely defeating repetitive cycle that I still believe held me back.
Where I realized the most benefit was primarily from my grandmother, and then later from working with individuals that treated me as she did; calm, respectful, constructive, infinitely patient, and not a little bit in awe sometimes at the things I could see cle
The most important thing is that you and spouse know best. Really. Not Dr, in-laws, or PhD, or /. blather.
The second is, you should consider accepting your kid as who they are. And help guide. We spent a lot of time mistakenly 'trying to change him' when we ought to have been more... Accepting?
Last, groups of other socially awkward kids doesn't make sense, and didn't work for my now 20 year-old. That group doesn't reflect real life - till your kid can self select similar minded peers.
My son is diagnosed as "on the spectrum." You quickly know everybody else in town whose kids have the same diagnosis. The mom's prattle on endlessly about "social skills." But I doubt it's a lack of skills that is really the issue. Rather, a lack of desire. I was never diagnosed when I was a kid but certainly seem to meet the criteria. My kindergarten report card says "does not play with other children." When I hear the mom's prattle on about "social skills," I still cringe. I don't think that any of the kids lack the skills. They lack the desire. Sitting around and engaging in idle conversation isn't fun for everybody. They'd rather explore their world. Of course there are some things that can't be one by yourself (like play on the see-saw). Suddenly they want to interact with other kids. They can't do it and feel rejected. The spectrum kids (and me) have a tough time seeing the intrinsic value of the relationships, only the benefits. Of course that doesn't work. Any skills we force them to learn don't really address the underlying desires. The skills aren't hard to learn. I went from being the most anti-social guy in HS and now I'm a salesman spending my day talking to people. But I still wouldn't say I have any 'good' friends. Just know a lot of people. It doesn't actually bother me at all. I care about things like right and wrong. Man is a species being and that seems to be true even of people on the spectrum. But interacting and maintaining relationships with individuals feels more like a chore. There's a huge risk here that what we are really teaching the kids is the means of doing an unpleasant task better. Imagine instead of social skills you were teaching them taking out the trash. If you make this substitution in all of the sentences, it's pretty representative of how many people feel. I'm not saying that kids shouldn't be taught to survive in their world better - they have to learn to clean their rooms, too. But we should understand that it's not necessarily something that they want to do.
I'm sure that if I were a child today I would be diagnosed with all kinds of disorders ADD, ADHD, ASD, OCD, etc... Today kids are diagnosed with those type disorders at the drop of a hat and often times by school teachers and school counselors based on one or two incidents that happen in a.the classroom. I have five sons and every last one of them had a teacher like that. They all grew up to be normal and healthy.
When you talk to people about this stuff, you realize that almost everyone is medicated to change psychological function.
To the extent where you realize you are the only adult in the community that people encounter who is not on mind-altering drugs.
The world we live in and the behaviors of the people around us are radically different than what they might be if we were not medicating as heavily as we do.
Lighten up, Francis.
So a friend of mine has Aspergers, he had a shitty time in education. Didn't come from a well off family and was lumped in with a special needs group at school and (like ALOT of kids at school) didn't get his needs met.
Any way post school he got deep into social sciences, which took him down his current career path and helped him make sense of the world. He spent time learning social situations like someone might learn a second landguage and did a pretty good job. I think thats a good metaphor for interacting with someone with autism, you expect that both party will have some miscomunication but those things are pretty easy to work through for anyone who's willing and who doesn't make it into a big deal or a taboo.
Anyway I'm big into the social model of disibilty, and I think it's shitty that the responsibility for fixing issues is placed on those most challenged by them rather than those who benifit from the current state of affairs.
this video is pretty enlightening also.
http://youtu.be/JnylM1hI2jc
Speaking as someone who has been diagnosed as both asbergers affected and adhd affected, much of the diagnosis are false and the children are just rambunctious children who haven't fully grown into their bodies. I'm not denying anyone who really has it from getting what they need. But most of the time children don't need medication or special therapy just good parenting. As I came to adulthood I still exhibit some mild tendencies but nothing compared to what I was being diagnosed with. I know a few other people with aspergers and autism and the more parental involvement the better they turned out as well.
Or an apron, and some gloves. Go out to a homeless shelter, do some work with humans who *do not care* if your manners aren't sophisticated, and prove you're worth something, and stop wanking about how well integrated you are. Earn some space on the planet, and stop worrying about how special you are or not, and go out and *prove* how you matter to someone else.
Couldn't agree more. This is life when you're in the minority.
Every fucking day of my life I have to act. I can never be myself or I will be hated.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "being yourself". In my case, I recognize that my actions have consequences not just for myself but also for others. Maybe I'm riding the subway and there's a woman with some nice curves that I would like to touch. Maybe she would like it if I reached out and touched them but most likely she would feel scared. And then my wife and daughter would also find it distressing (if they found out) that I was touching another woman. So, even though I would most likely enjoy the experience myself, I don't do it because it would be distressing for others.
Of course I'm now quite good at acting and playing your stupid social games, but having to constantly play a role is extremely tiresome.
Most non-trivial tasks are tiring . Even if someone is good at solving differentials equations, they're going to be tired after a long hard day of solving differential equations. But what you are really conveying is that you don't understand the purpose. Certainly if you force someone to solve differential equations all day and they don't understand why solving differential equations is useful then they're not going to like it.
In your case, you're not understanding that the right kind of social interactions actually serve an important purpose. Cooperation is extremely beneficial from a purely logical perspective. But how do you establish cooperation? Fundamentally, the answer is reciprocity. I do something nice for you so you do something nice for me. Yes, it's a game in the sense of logical game theory. But it's not game in the sense that it's pointless without any real world consequences. In fact, the real world consequences are huge - sometimes even life and death.
So let's say that at some point in the future you may be in a situation where someone else is faced with a decision between two courses of action - where the consequences for you are either life or death. How do you make it more likely that the person will choose the course of action in which you live? Well, fundamentally, reciprocity. In particular, you establish a long history of having done nice things for that person in the past with the understanding that if you live you will continue to do nice things for that person in the future.
Now, of course, you can't do nice things for everyone on the planet all the time so you have to pick and choose. When you first meet someone if they seem like a nice person with who you could develop some loyalty and trust then you do something just slightly nice for them. Then, if they feel the same way, they do something a little nice for you. And you each keep escalating until you reach a level that you're comfortable with. Maybe you each get to the point that you would risk your lives for each other. Or maybe it only reaches a level where you'd cover for each other if the boss came by while the other guy was away on a long lunch break.
There are, of course, bad meetings that really don't serve any useful purpose. But in many cases, people are actually establishing some initial loyalty and trust (reciprocity) in these meetings. Of course, if you don't understand that then it's all going to seem pointless. But then if the stereotypical airhead cheerleader were to watch someone solving differential equations then she might just assume that the person was just playing around drawing silly symbols for the fun of it.
Some people who claim to have mild autism were probably just raised in socially dysfunctional homes that were devoid of meaningful relationships based on loyalty and trust. So when they see people building new relationships they have no idea what's going on. But other people who claim to have mild autism do almost certainly have some sort of intellectual disability (e.g. as a result of a genetic condition) that makes it very hard for them to understand the underlying game theory that goes into establishing e
I'm a bit surprised that there's no scientific comments. No one has mentioned even a hint of any of the real scientific bases of autism, such as too high glutamate, reversed GABA channels, destruction of myelin sheaths of the nerves in the brain, etc.
Here's a good start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_autism
The biggest cause of autism is where you live.
For example people in Cuba, or the Amish in the USA have autism cases around 1 : 10,000. Whereas the rest of the USA is nearing 1 : 50.
Note that Cuba does have some vaccines, but doesn't have access to commonly used chemicals such as tylenol(it's prescription only due to it's high rate of causing liver failure), most pesticides, herbicides, etc.
The destruction of myelin sheaths of the nerves in the brain causes an overcompensation of the brain to grow more, but not communicate.
Some times an issue can bring benefits. Such as how most blind people can hear better than the average person. Or how a deaf+blind born person has few distractions from the environment. You sign to them by holding their hands with yours.
My oldest son was quite different from the start.
Finally had him diagnosed in the 3rd grade with HFA and PDD. Psychologist suggested putting him on 5 different drugs (no thanks!). They tested him and he scored a 70 on an IQ test.
We did get special services in school and he was in special ed for most of his classes, mostly for the benefit of smaller classes- however didn't pursue anything outside of the school. I don't think any study has shown therapy to be useful or effective and there is too much profit motive involved.
He has been raised the same way as our 'regular' son with the same expectations for behavior and family contributions. Any 'odd' behavioral issues that I thought would greatly hamper his ability to function in society are discouraged.
He seems to have grown out of a lot of the issues he was having, he is a sophomore now and has been in honors math his second year and in regular classes. No close friends yet but there are a few kids he goofs around at school.
So here is one anecdote about a hands off approach.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Real autism is a scientific disease. This above poster doesn't say that he\she has autism or not, or any medical data. Only that they like to spend time with their cats. Sounds more of an introverted (with possible depression) versus extroverted issue, not an autism issue.
However, if this person does better with a drink to be social, then they may have an underlying glutamate\GABA functioning issue, which would be a part of autism.
This is a pretty positive thread, but I just want to speak on this one real quick. My brother is autistic, like he talks, graduated high school, but is a ward of the state and kind-of far from functional. At school I've heard CS students saying stuff like "No I wouldn't build a red-brick calculator in Minecraft, I'm not autistic." This kind of talk makes me really upset. I'm not even exactly sure why, but I don't like it. I guess, I watched pretty closely as my brother struggled and struggled through life, to still end up in a very marginalized position. I think this had as much to do with poverty and my parent's religious practices as his condition. But I got really upset about this the other day, and I want to encourage you all to be really nice, and refrain from making fun of people with behavioral difficulties. I'm not pointing my finger at anyone specifically as much as just feeling that this is somewht of a problem in the tech community, and we can be nicer. This might be somewhat off-topic.
I just want to mention that I agree with your points overall.
The article was dashed off in a hurry, and on reflection pretty-much everything you mentioned occurred to me after the fact. In particular, I glossed over lots of nuanced specifics for brevity. The examples were only meant to tack down the idea in the reader's mind.
Nothing so simply put can be taken at face value. I hope the parent realizes "what I meant" and will use his judgement to take a more nuanced action.
I am the parent of a severely disabled child (now an adult) and I have worked 9 years as a classroom aide in special ed.
This Slashdot discussion is full of outstanding advice and sincerely spoken witness. My technical criticism of this whole discussion is the whole field of special education, special needs parenting, and autistic child growth facilitation needs a moderated search engine combined with a wikipedia tree structured knowledge base.
The high quality of the writers posting here shows a great deal of understanding about autism and Asperbergers is present but there is no framework for preserving the passion and intensity while enabling the interested parent to island hop to those writings appropriate for their child.
I have a very minor example problem: I need some kind of a software wrapper to enable a young person who wildly hits a push button at random or grabs the mouse or jumps up and pounds the keyboard to play Youtube music videos through a web browser (on a 6 year old iMac). I have had different kids, different versions of the request on different computers for five years now. If there is a review article summarizing the different free solutons I don't know how to search for it and I don't have time for all the ads for 10 year old $300 macromedia software packages. The teacher already bought them 15 years ago and they are all rigged to require the CD in the drive. And don't get me started about those expensive breakable iPad type devices where the user interface is locked to a very high level of motor skill and everything is for sale and nothing is age appropriate .
Neckbeards aren't neurotypical, but that is a whole different spectrum.
After being suggested by two unrelated acquaintances to look into it, I've gone to many Aspergers meetups only to find out that everything horrible that happened to me from early childhood to early 20s matched 1:1 the lives of people with Aspergers. I've come to understand these people deeply and they feel to me closer like family. The reason things changed after my mid-20s was because of Aikido. Now I can actually withstand crowds to a certain extent, and have realtime spontaneous reactions to people. It also changed how I walk - my walking actually looks human now, and so do other physical movements. This is how it happened:
One of the key factors in an Aspergers' person's life is patterns. They usually attach to patterns and become greatly disfressed during major life changes.
This happens because normal people have a main-purpose CPU for processing everyday information, and a specialized GPU for adaptive realtime behavior, such as mingling in crowds fluidly, partnered dancing, just spontaneity in general. The main CPU's emulation mode of this GPU is very very slow - it's no substitute. This truth I've ran into not only with myself, but with many Aspergers people I met in person.
And so, a person with Aspergers will spend 2 weeks pre-caching their possible reactions for a social occasion with their CPU, because their GPU is inaccessible. They cannot generate them in realtime, so they pre-cache as many possibilities as they can. If-then, if-then, if-then... And after it ends, they will spend a ton of time analyzing gathered information because it could not be done in realtime. Going over every potential mistake, and adding it to the if-then pile, for the FUTURE...
There is a way, however, to regain access to the GPU. Maybe not for all Aspergers people, but for many. There's a lever by which it can be operated, and that lever is adaptive physical movement.
Aikido is ideally suited for this, because it is a structured Japanese art which limits social interaction (a plus), is usually non-confrontational (another plus), very friendly to newcomers, and, most importantly, Aikido techniques don't work at all until you activate the GPU, and sense what's happening in your training partner's structure NOW. It FORCES your brain to restructure and reach out where you previously didn't know you could, into that unseen area where decisions are made without conscious processing. Eventually you learn to trust your GPU, just like a neurotypical human does.
Considering that Aspergers frequently comes with co-morbid conditions like PTSD from bullying, and depression, Aikido also addresses those. It has been used to treat PTSD in war veterans, because its movements retrain how we perceive conflict on a deeper level. It certainly eliminated PTSD flashbacks I had from high school after walking into every single social faux pas known to man and becoming the laughingstock of the class, that weird dude on whom you'd test your reflexes...
#Aikido4lyfe
I'm sorry, but YOU are the idiot. Autism is not a disease. The problem is not autism, it's neurotypical people who need to have things their way.
If you're talking about a "touch of autism" then you might be right but autism at the far end is most certainly a disease.
People with severe autism can't read, write, talk, or take care of themself. They also many times have poor motor
skills and weak muscle tone. Even if you removed them from a neurotypical society and put them in a jungle somewhere
they still would be unable to take care of themself so it's not the neurotypical society that is the problem.
My brother has a son with Asperger syndroma and he is spending thousands of $ on behavioral ABA method. His kids are still ostracized and he almost ruined himself after 2/3 years.
I met a kid in Canada (the nation of nice peoples and ABA) who was bullied as a kid (probably Asperger but hard to tell when you are no doctor).
I came to the weired conclusions that this kid may or might not be Asperger but he was ostracized for being different.
I have a friend of mine whose kid in QuÃf©bec is also diagnosed with Autism.
She has hard time, because she feels the social pressure. So does my other friend with kids with hyperactivity disorder.
At one point my question was merely if TSA diagnosis were raising because some magical/chemical/physical had triggered, or because people needed this diagnosis.
Something can spread faster than deaseses: social behaviours.
Handicap is not the difference, it is effect of the social deforming lense at your difference.
No matter how you look at it, our societies are growing very intolerant to the differences. It strikes me as odd that ABA the way I saw it taught in Florida is like Pavlov's dog experiment on human; .... Hello
learn protocol Hello
T: Hello
Kid
T: good here is a sweet.
The ABA I saw is merely about implementing a very rigid framework of interaction. I think the number of autistic kids might not have risen but much more the rigidity of our social interaction, making it harder for people with a brain to survive. And for Reason's sake: kids are not to be treated like obedient dogs!
Now the question is are you scared of your kid having a unique personnality and having a unique destiny (including potentially becoming a hobo)?
If so, you look like an asshole. But being scared is human, and it is a pretty good idea to be scared in front of scary problems... So, in fact you are a responsible parent.
Else, a lot of people with different personnalities changed the world, whereas boringly predictable person tends to have a boring life.On the other hand, you might live an interesting family life and enjoy it.
Fight for the right of kids to be differents if you believe in tolerance as a major assets of an healthy society, and have your kid learn boxing.
I believe in allopathie / academic medecine, so I would strongly advise to see what can help. However I also would advise to be like for everything else critical and have healthy doubts and to not let people cross lines corresponding to your ethic. And don't fix what isn't broken.
PS: I had the temptation to self diagnosed myself with Asperger, but as soon as I noticed how this definition made people converge towards Ãtypical Asperger behaviourà I decided it would bring me nothing more than trouble to accept a tag that could turn me into a self pitying jerk. So I decided to refuse the risk and I prefer to be just a regular asshole ... because asshole can change.
PPS maybe rewatch malcom in the middle full serie and you may find answers.
If you want some formal assessments of the effectiveness of interventions, you could try the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality http://effectivehealthcare.ahrq.gov/index.cfm/search-for-guides-reviews-and-reports/?productid=1945&pageaction=displayproduct (Therapies for Children With Autism Spectrum Disorder) or the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg170 (The management and support of children and young people on the autism spectrum).
Both say that, despite 30+ years of very poor quality trials, the small number of subjects and lack of randomization mean that there is no good evidence of the effectiveness of social skills groups. It does not mean they do not work, just that the evidence is not compelling - if it is your money, you might want to consider alternatives to improve quality of life.
The Cochrane Library http://www.cochranelibrary.com/ has good technical reports of meta analyses, including http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD008511.pub2/abstract (Social skills groups for people aged 6 to 21 with autism spectrum disorders) - "There is some evidence that social skills groups can improve social competence for some children and adolescents with ASD. More research is needed to draw more robust conclusions, especially with respect to improvements in quality of life."
(I am an adult with autism spectrum disorder, and personally have felt benefit from social skills training, but at something like $5,000 per year, it may not have the same benefit to all).
Asperger's is not the next step in human evolution.
This sounds like a chalkboard gag from The Simpsons.
That's right. What they diagnose as problems nowadays used to be the norm. I was placed with all the super geniuses in special classes where they bused us from all over to one class and went on and up on that path. I may or may not have both as do many other people I grew up with in that tiny group. We needed no drugs or therapists and some of us turned out fine, and other's did not and still struggle. I would have loved to learn more social skills and such as would some of my friends instead of struggling through it, but I wonder if it would have helped at all.
Both of these issues in light forms were called shyness... in heavy forms were called retardedness (even if it were the opposite).
My advice... rather than go to these moochers... find a good Tae Kwon Do or Martial Arts school (there are good and bad). Enroll your son or daughter and they will pick up enough confidence and social skills to excel at life where they are lacking now. All these other groups are like entering the lottery... good luck, but usually will be a waster! Not going to advertise who the real teachers are and fake ones, but just check out the reviews and word of mouth reviews very carefully first and you should be fine.
Such groups are completly non-sense. I was once in one of these groups – once.
They are let by persons who have no idea what autists need.
They taught working/playing together, "social" skills. Completly wrong approach.
What autists need first is help in getting along with their "alieness",
also learning to compensate their sometimes overwhelming feelings,
also to experience some positive social feelings (difficult to reach, best way an interest group which fits to him).
Better help him getting in a group of his interest (means showing him some groups but not forcing him in one).
E.g. for a techie I would try a computer club.
Be careful:
If a group doesn't like strange-minded persons,
then it is definitely not the right group. Had some bad experiences with it.
To answer the original poster's actual question:
I think you should evaluate each therapist and social skills program individually. Sure, most may be lame, but some may not be. Also keep in mind that you are NOT an expert at training for these things. What appears to be a waste of time may actually be getting to the root of a problem that you haven't even noticed.
As someone who is recently self-diagnosed, but who never received any kind of help, I can tell you what I would have appreciated:
Parents and adults who did not respond to my problems with platitudes like: "If you just be yourself, people will like you." Listen to your child and help them work through specific instances of things that have made them uncomfortable. Offer concrete suggestions based on how the real world works in their school. Ask for feedback as to how that advice is helping.
Provide lots of opportunities for success. I am talking about social success here, not just success in completing tasks. Play dates may be good, but I would suggest that you get your kid into clubs based on activities they like, but that have a large social component. For instance, If your kid likes trains. Don't just take them to a club where someone shows off their latest train set. Take them to events where the kids get together over pizza and talk about their trains in a less formal manner. Perhaps have them build trains together, then all get together for the pizza party. You should perhaps direct the activities (as in plan for all the kids to have stuff ready to build said trains) and monitor for bullying and bad behavior, but then let the kids take it from there. Learn the subtle signs that indicate that either your kid is uncomfortable or that other kids are perplexed by his/her behavior. Now, watch for those signs during the activity BUT DON'T INTERRUPT DURING THE ACTIVITY. Now, the next day, pick a few things to talk to your kid about. Always make sure to let your child know that they aren't "in trouble" for "acting wrong" but that you just want to help them understand how other people think. Make it clear that this is the kind of discussion that ALL good parents should be having with their kids, rather than it being some kind of remedial activity because they are broken.
Avoid bullies like the plague. While it is OK for other kids to be perplexed or confused by your child's behavior, if they actually start picking on your kid then take steps to get that bad apple out of the club, find a different club, or talk to the other parents and fork your own club, without the bullies allowed. The longer bullying is allowed to persist, the more socially isolated your child will become. It is almost an exponential scale.
I know someone who is much further along on the autism spectrum than I am. However, when he was around 14 or 15 his few friends got together and decided they were going to teach him how to be less socially awkward. After each interaction they critiqued him, much like members at a ToastMasters meeting critiquing a member's speech or presentation. Now, though he still has many autistic tics, he is far more socially skilled and successful than I am. To my ear, he always sounds so phoney and patronizing, but everyone seems to love him. He meets and flirts with new women with ease and does very well at work, garnering the praise of many of the managers. Mostly because he has learned when to keep his mouth shut and exactly when and how to make suggestions.
Finally, keep in mind, this will be a lifetime project. Never think you are done. Life will always present new things that will always be difficult for your child, well past their mid-life crisis. The most important thing you can do is be that sounding board that they can always go to for advice.