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Legislation Would Force Radio Stations To Pay Royalties

Major Blud writes: Congressman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) and Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) introduced the "Fair Play Fair Pay Act" today that would end regulations that allow terrestrial radio stations to avoid paying royalties to artists and labels. Currently, AM/FM radio stations aren't required to pay royalties to publishers and songwriters. The proposed measure requires stations that earn less than $1 million a year in revenue to pay $500 annually. For nonprofit public, college and other non-commercial broadcasters, the fee would be $100 per year. Religious and talk stations would be exempt from any payments. Larger radio companies like iHeartMedia (858 stations in the U.S.) would have to pay more.

"The current system is antiquated and broken. It pits technologies against each other, and allows certain services to get away with paying little or nothing to artists. For decades, AM/FM radio has used whatever music it wants without paying a cent to the musicians, vocalists, and labels that created it. Satellite radio has paid below market royalties for the music it uses, growing into a multibillion dollar business on the back of an illogical 'grandfathered' royalty standard that is now almost two decades old," said Congressman Nadler.

151 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. ASCAP and BMI by Sylak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So what you're saying is my college radio didn't need to pay ASCAP and BMI?

    1. Re:ASCAP and BMI by mveloso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Those are licenses, not royalties. If you want an example of how to make licensing so complicated that it's incomprehensible, read up on music licensing and royalties. Licensing to ASCAP/BMI is not a royalty - it's a license. I would think that BMI/ASCAP would pay royalties as part of the license fee, but it sounds like they don't.

      Someone needs to come out with a diagram of how, what, and who gets paid in the music business.

    2. Re:ASCAP and BMI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If I remember correct (and it has been a few years, so the standards may have changed), radio stations, especially college radio stations, would get "promotional copy" of albums, which meant it was free (as in beer and speech) to play on air. There were some licensing fees that were suppose to cover ASCAP and BMI (not much different than bars have to pay when they have cover bands), but mostly the indie bands weren't covered since they weren't on major labels.

      I don't know if this on parity with internet radio, and may be a case of double-dipping for traditional radio stations that also stream.

      Not that this new legislation is necessarily wrong-headed, but there is a bunch of music that won't be reimbursed, so a blanket fee is not serving the stated goals, and there would be several smaller labels that would forgo the right to collect just for more exposure.

      Regardless, Reason will be opposed to it, even though it is acting as a kind of payola.

    3. Re:ASCAP and BMI by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Informative

      Those are licenses, not royalties.

      You are technically correct—the best kind of correct.

      Radio stations pay licensing fees to ASCAP and BMI, who in turn pay the composers and publishers proportionally based on the percentage of airplay (and concerts and other performances) that their songs received. They do not pay the artists or the record companies, so the article is correct in that regard. But yes, they most certainly do pay the composers and publishers, albeit indirectly. That's the whole reason those performance rights organizations exist.

      There is a caveat, however. Not all radio stations are considered "reporting stations". I know our college radio station diligently logged our plays for reporting purposes, but when it comes to actual royalty payouts, those organizations use a random sampling of radio stations, rather than tallying every song on every station. If your music is played only on a small number of radio stations, there's a good chance you won't get paid because you won't show up in their sampling. Now over time, they're getting closer and closer to full reporting, so this is becoming less of a problem, but it is something to keep in mind.

      In any case, I would say that the summary is just plain wrong. In effect, radio stations pay royalties (indirectly) to composers and publishers, but not to performers and record labels.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:ASCAP and BMI by gumbi+west · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The flip side of the sampling is that there is some near (but not exactly) zero play bands getting far more than their share of royalties. Basically, they face a very imprecise but accurate estimate of their payout.

    5. Re:ASCAP and BMI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This report has an error. The publishing royalties (ASCAP & BMI) are collected and paid out tot he writers and publishers. This report has that wrong. The new addition is for radio stations to pay the musicians and labels who currently get no royalties at all. In Canada this is being addressed as it is in other countries around the world.

    6. Re:ASCAP and BMI by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In theory, yes, sampling tends to result in large errors for small values, in both directions.

      In practice, I think the sampling mostly covers large stations in major markets, so I'd expect it to skew away from low-play bands a lot more often than it skews towards them. But that's just a gut feeling; I could be wrong.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    7. Re:ASCAP and BMI by davester666 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I reject the very idea that the system could possibly be gamed for the general advantage of the major labels and their most popular bands.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    8. Re:ASCAP and BMI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Someone needs to come out with a diagram of how, what, and who gets paid in the music business.

      Remember the movie poster for the first Jaws movie?

      The swimmer is the paying public.
      The shark is the music industry.

      No further elements required.

    9. Re:ASCAP and BMI by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah I can attest to this. I know for a fact my album was played a number of times on various US radio stations, but acording to ASCAP it never was at all.

      Which is kind of annoying, because at least one of those stations was fairly big in California . if I'm not mistaken.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    10. Re:ASCAP and BMI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Basically, they face a very imprecise but accurate estimate of their payout."

      Wouldn't that be the other way around?

      You have your precision, 0.0001% of airplay, but your accuracy is off. If a value has fine precision, but based on "loose" information, you can get precision without accuracy. Saying pi is 1.23456789098765432 is very precise, but saying it is 3 is more accurate. Random sampling would get you a precise number when you do your division, but if the sampling size is too small, it would be inaccurate.

      Let's say you have 100 stations, but only sample 8 stations, playing 100 songs each.. Only 1 station plays Two Tons of Steel's "Death Trap" and reports it. They love the song and played it 5 times. That one station is in your sample of 8 stations. You do the numbers, and TTS have 5 of the 800 plays in the sample. TTS gets 0.625% of airtime. A nice precise number. However, it is inaccurate by an order of magnitude. They got 0.05% of airtime.

    11. Re:ASCAP and BMI by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Back in the days when people used to care about music charts the people who compiled them would do samplings at a number of record shops. Record labels got to know which shops they were using and sent people to them to buy every single copy of a new release, just to make sure it charted well.

      Seems like the same sort of thing would be easy here. Just find one of the stations often used for sampling and bribe them to give you a few percent more plays, resulting in a big increase in royalties.

      --
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    12. Re:ASCAP and BMI by c · · Score: 3, Funny

      Someone needs to come out with a diagram of how, what, and who gets paid in the music business.

      Risky. On one hand, you might just end up with a diagram telling you where the buck stops. On the other hand, you might end up summoning the Elder Gods.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    13. Re:ASCAP and BMI by Megane · · Score: 1

      They do not pay the artists or the record companies

      "American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers"

      Well, "performers" certainly isn't in there. A publisher seems to be the company that holds the copyrights for the songs, not the record label that actually manufactures the recordings.

      --
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    14. Re:ASCAP and BMI by dresgarcia · · Score: 3, Informative

      At one time, this was true. There was a time when all sampling was done "by hand". This is no longer true, and has not been true for quite some time, thanks to the advancement of technology. From 2002 to 2006 I worked for a company that was directly funded by ASCAP. We sampled dozens of stations in at least the 110 Media Markets across the US, as well as some international and online stations. Using as many as 5 servers per market we were tracking a minimum of 10 stations per server. Using digital fingerprint technology we reached nearly 100% detection rate of which *version* of which song was being played on a station. That company no longer exists, but the methods(and similar technologies) live on. This should cover something close to 50% of stations residing in the 302 US Media Markets.

    15. Re:ASCAP and BMI by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Seems like the same sort of thing would be easy here. Just find one of the stations often used for sampling and bribe them to give you a few percent more plays, resulting in a big increase in royalties.

      With respect to radio, paying DJs to play your songs more was deemed illegal 50ish years ago. I suppose if you're already calling it "bribing," legality is not a primary concern.

    16. Re:ASCAP and BMI by markhb · · Score: 1

      That doesn't do a whole lot for the bass player if a "solo performer" has the writing credit.

      --
      Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
    17. Re:ASCAP and BMI by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Precise but inaccurate. Different.

    18. Re:ASCAP and BMI by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      You weight to avoid this. So if a station has a 10% chance of getting into the sample, you multiply it's results by 10. If a station has a 100% chance (say some huge NYC station) you multiply it's results by 1. This is how estimation via sampling works. Survey methodology is a real field and it's not occupied by idiots as you seem so willing to believe.

    19. Re:ASCAP and BMI by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      No. You're confusing digits with precision. Accuracy is a ex ante property of a statistical estimator, not ex post. Your examples are all ex post.

    20. Re:ASCAP and BMI by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Radio stations pay licensing fees to ASCAP and BMI,

      Who first pay themselves, then

      who in turn pay the composers and publishers proportionally

      FTFY.

      AC

      ASCAP and BMI both pay about 85–86% of their intake to the composers and publishers. Yes, they're skimming a little bit off the top, but they're also handling the reporting and distribution, hiring lobbyists to advocate on behalf of composers and publishers, and so on, all of which at least in theory benefits their members. So in the grand scheme of things, at least from what I've seen, they seem to be doing a good job.

      I have no idea about SESAC.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    21. Re:ASCAP and BMI by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Paying DJs to play your songs is illegal. But giving radio stations incentives to play them, like providing bands to play in promotional concerts for radio stations, is not. Technically it's not a pay-for-play exchange but it might as well be.

  2. School of Rock by Fireflymantis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dewey: Oh, you wanna learn something?

    Summer: Yes, I do.

    Dewey: You want me to teach you something? [most of the students nod] Here's a useful lesson for you: give up. Just quit. Because in this life, you can't win. Sure, you can try. [really getting angry] But in the end you're just gonna lose, BIG TIME. Because THE WORLD is run by the Man.

    Frankie: Who?

    Dewey: The Man. Oh, you don't know the Man? [class shakes their heads] He's everywhere. In the White House, down the hall, MISS MULLINS, she's the Man. And the Man ruined the ozone, and he's burning down the Amazon, and he kidnapped Shamu and put her in a chlorine tank! Okay? And there used to be a way to stick it to The Man. It was called rock ‘n’ roll. But guess what. Oh, no. The Man ruined that too with a little thing called MTV! So don’t waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome, because The Man’s just going to call you a fat, washed up loser and crush your soul. So do yourselves a favor and just GIVE UP!!!

    1. Re:School of Rock by Fireflymantis · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If this goes through, It could provoke more play of local (i.e. 'less expensive') artists. That would a good thing, yes? Or, does music get cheaper when bought in bulk... is Coldplay is 1 cent a spin, and local group USS is a dollar a spin? What bothers me the most is how any control over the pricing here results in upper level control of what songs get played. Only if somehow the artists themselves get to pick royalty pricing could I see this working.

    2. Re:School of Rock by Fireflymantis · · Score: 1

      Right, and self-respecting local bands would also offer local radio play for free... so...

    3. Re:School of Rock by GateGuy · · Score: 1

      If the copyright is good for 95 years, wouldn't that mean the date would be 1920 and earlier?

      --
      Maryland State Motto: If you can dream it, we can tax it.
  3. Should really be named by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Death to free radio act.

    1. Re:Should really be named by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      Well - in other parts of the world royalties are already paid for played music, and music is still played on the radios so it won't kill radio.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Should really be named by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And in yet other parts, there is no public performance fee.

      Stores in Hong Kong pay nothing, and you get too much music in your face (ok, ears, but you get the idea.)

    3. Re:Should really be named by Froboz23 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Legislation killed the radio star...

      --
      Take off every Sig. For great justice.
  4. Thank god by Deimos24601 · · Score: 2

    Now I can finally sleep at night, knowing that those poor, starving artists are being properly compensated...

    1. Re:Thank god by gumbi+west · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are a lot of people besides artists who work hard to make music. There are many jobs that need to be done. It's like a movie--think of how many people you could name that work on a movie vs how many appear in the credits. Yes, the people you could name get paid more, but everyone else in the industry still would rather have that money to do that movie job than some other job.

      Human's have a tendency to focus on the obvious (the star, in this case) and not to think about the everything else--but it's still there, even if we don't think about it. It's like dark matter and dark energy in that way, I guess.

    2. Re:Thank god by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of people besides artists who work hard to make music.

      Oh, you mean like the big fat record label executives who sit in their plush offices and collect like 98% of all the profits from music and then dribble out a few pennies here and there to the artists and lyric writers who actually perform and do the work? Or are you talking about the recording studios (owned by the record labels) who charge the artists exorbitant fees to use the facilities to record their art? Just who's going to get the money from all these new fees? I'll bet you not a single penny will actually get the the creative people that make it all possible. And what about the few Indi stations that don't play any mainstream music from the major labels? Do they have to pay them anyway?

      This is nothing more than a couple of corrupt politicians making sure their rich political contributors get even richer at the expense of everyone else. What we really need is a "Fair Play Fair Pay Act" that will force record executives to actually pay artists a fair percentage for their work. Learn something, actually take a look at a contract from a major record label and see all the things in there that the artists are forced to pay for. Want to go on tour? The artist pays for that himself while the label still takes the lion's share of any proceeds (right off the top, before any expenses get paid). If you don't make it as a superstar (few do) you go bankrupt pretty quick. All the money goes to the executives and this new piece of corruption is only going to enrich a few record label executives that don't really do anything to deserve it.

    3. Re:Thank god by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      If these executives didn't have to do anything to deserve this money, why aren't you one of them?

  5. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This will really hurt radio industry douchebags and enrich music industry douchebags. For the trifecta, they can amend the bill to make the so-called artists donate 10% of the royalties to the Westboro Baptist Church.

    1. Re:Who cares? by gtall · · Score: 2

      Don't give Marsha Blackburn any new ideas. She has none of her own and is just about the most vapid puff of pastry ever elected to the House.

  6. Free advertising by ShaunC · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For decades, AM/FM radio has used whatever music it wants without paying a cent to the musicians, vocalists, and labels that created it.

    That's because radio is free advertising for the artists. Now they want the free advertising and to get paid for it, too? In decades past, the labels would bribe radio station PD's to get their music played; I wonder if they'd rather return to that model where it costs them money (and coke, and cars, and plane tickets) to get their artists some airtime?

    Speaking of payola, it should come as no surprise that "TV/Movies/Music" are among the top 3 industries donating money to both Mr. Nadler and Ms. Blackburn.

    --
    Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    1. Re:Free advertising by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it's more along the lines of: Internet Radio came along and the music industry wanted them to pay royalties because "Internet" equals "One Step Away From Piracy." They wouldn't let their music near the "PiracyNet" unless they were compensated first. Fine, so the Internet Radio companies paid them. Now, however, the executives got greedier and noticed that Internet Radio was paying them while Non-Internet Radio wasn't. Greedy executives saw dollar signs and decided that this couldn't stand so they got their buddies in Congress to put forward legislation to force everyone to pay them royalties. (Oops. I mean every Radio company. The "everyone needs to pay $X a month to the music industry no matter what you do" legislation is still being ironed out.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Free advertising by jandrese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In decades past, the labels would bribe radio station PD's to get their music played

      It's much more efficient now. Everybody is owned by the same megacorps so there doesn't have to be any "corruption" to make sure only your artists get airtime.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    3. Re:Free advertising by Technician · · Score: 2

      I think the radio stations should start charging labels for airplay advertising to recoup the increased cost of program material. Advertising is already starving radio stations as media is moving online. About the only ones listening to over the air radio anymore is commuters trying to wake up and catch the traffic report. Now that Google Maps has added the real time traffic overlay on maps, even that is going away as people use a cell GPS to avoid traffic gridlock.

      How many homes no longer have a home stereo system with a radio turner? It's video at home or online streaming to cut the 10 song loop may stations play. Dilute that with an over stuffed advertising bundle and you see the problem. Even on weekends, many radio stations pretty much shut down operations and play infomercials to kill time normal advertisers wont support enough to keep the lights on.

      If you are a radio station, your prime time audience is only from 6-9 AM and 3-6PM. Everything else is repeat programming.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    4. Re:Free advertising by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if they pronounce the artist and song clearer, some publishers would agree to keep the current approach in place. Often they mumble or skip the description.

    5. Re:Free advertising by fatgraham · · Score: 2

      If I haven't heard it, it's new to me

    6. Re:Free advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In decades past, the labels would bribe radio station PD's to get their music played

      It's much more efficient now. Everybody is owned by the same megacorps so there doesn't have to be any "corruption" to make sure only your artists get airtime.

      Just ask the Dixie Chicks about that.

    7. Re:Free advertising by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

      >How many homes no longer have a home stereo system with a radio turner?

      I do. I leave it on to keep the dog company while I'm out and about. He feels pretty strongly about not paying royalties as the programming's pretty weak.

      The humans in the house use Internet streaming or locally stored content.

    8. Re:Free advertising by gnupun · · Score: 1

      And if 5-10% of listeners (like you) haven't heard that song, is it still considered new and therefore advertising? AFAIK, AM/FM stations play the same old songs (top 40 or top 100) for decades on end. If you listen to their stations for even 1-2 hours a day, it's unlikely you'll come upon a new song except the latest hits. Sorry, you can't claim "advertising," while playing some Elvis' song.

    9. Re:Free advertising by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Speaking of payola, it should come as no surprise that "TV/Movies/Music" are among the top 3 industries donating money to both Mr. Nadler [opensecrets.org] and Ms. Blackburn [opensecrets.org].

      Of course, they donate to 90% of the Senators and 97% of the Representatives. It's not like bribing Congress to get your way is somehow restricted to these two...

      Always remember, if you give government the power to do anything you want, then there's big money in just paying off the government to get your way. Note, by the by, that the royalty fees being discussed (which will no doubt increase later) are set to be just about sufficient to pay for the lobbying that the industry does in Washingotn....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:Free advertising by colfer · · Score: 1

      And on NPR the talk format is wiping out the music format in many markets.

    11. Re:Free advertising by gnupun · · Score: 1

      But gee, do coca-cola ads satisfy your thirst by handing you a bottle, like music on radio satisfies your thirst to listen to music? Music on radio is entertainment first, and advertising on a secondary or tertiary level, whereas the coca-cola ads are just... ads.

      Also, your analogy is bogus: coke bottles can bought multiple times to the same customer justifying multiple ads to the same person whereas a song can only be sold once to a listener.

    12. Re:Free advertising by sudnshok · · Score: 2

      That is absolutely not true. I have purchased many albums that were released in the 1970s and 1980s after hearing songs on the radio within the last 10 years. Some of those songs I had never heard before (like some deep tracks), and some just grew on me.

      --
      People who say "money does not buy happiness" are just people without money trying to make themselves feel better.
    13. Re:Free advertising by Enry · · Score: 1

      If that were still the case, then why are satellite and online radio paying royalties?

    14. Re:Free advertising by ElVee · · Score: 1

      Radio will end up being an endless replay of the same 20 pop hits by the same mega-artists.

      Oh, wait. It already is.

      --
      - Pithy comment goes here.
    15. Re:Free advertising by tepples · · Score: 1

      Anyone who plays non-free music is required to pay royalties under the Digital Performance Right in Sound Recordings Act of 1995. Were you asking why the Digital Performance Right in Sound Recordings Act of 1995 was enacted? Or were you asking why satellite and online radio choose to play non-free music?

    16. Re:Free advertising by ShaunC · · Score: 2

      It's much more efficient now. Everybody is owned by the same megacorps so there doesn't have to be any "corruption" to make sure only your artists get airtime.

      Considering that they specifically mentioned IHeartRadio, which is what ClearChannel has become, I'm certain that you're correct to an extent. There's still corruption, but it's been redirected. These days instead of labels paying the stations, the labels are paying politicians. And ClearChannel's campaign contributions have apparently dwindled to the point where the music industry is outdoing them. I figure all this proposed legislation will do is cause ClearChannel, or IHeart, or whatever they call themselves these days (funny they change their name around, sort of like Gator/Claria or Blackwater/Xe/Academi) to send more sacks of cash. The politicians will benefit and everyone else will get fucked.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    17. Re:Free advertising by LihTox · · Score: 1

      I assumed this was coming from the Internet Radio stations saying "Hey, how is it fair that we have to pay royalties and those guys don't?"

    18. Re:Free advertising by Cederic · · Score: 1

      No, but I can challenge why the fuck I have to pay to use an Elvis song. Exactly how does society benefit from this artificial restriction on use of cultural artefacts.

    19. Re:Free advertising by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Besides what tepples said, there are also the boxed sets, the new mixes, the alternate mixes and alternate versions including live. Think of Dark Side of The Moon, hundreds and hundreds of weeks on the best sellers list and still there (with a few short breaks when it didn't get so much airtime) after 43 odd years of selling. Not only are there kids first getting exposed to it but there are also people buying the 5:1 version which from what I remember of the Quadrophonic version is worth buying.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  7. BULL$#1T by chromaexcursion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's NOTHING in the bill that would pay artists,
    only record companies.
    As to the comments on ASCAP and BMI. In most cases "license fees" are another term for royalties. And in this case they are.
    This is more backdoor BS by the record company shills.

    1. Re:BULL$#1T by houghi · · Score: 1

      To be fair, it was always about the copyright owners and never about the artist. It basically is : Do you want to be famous and make a bit of money or do you want to keep the copyright to your music?

      And note that this is still just about the copyright owner. e.g. the singer/songwriter. All others are payed by the hour, most of the time.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  8. "Almost two decades"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'grandfathered' royalty standard that is now almost two decades old," said Congressman Nadler.

    Is it just me, or is that pretty young for regulations? Do we really need to re-write the laws every five years? I'm pretty liberal, but I don't see how businesses can make any long term plans if regulations are going to shift that rapidly.

    1. Re:"Almost two decades"? by CaptQuark · · Score: 2

      I think it means they didn't get the previous bill to give them payment that they wanted, so they want to try again. I agree, a 20 year old law doesn't sound that out of date yet.

      ~~

    2. Re:"Almost two decades"? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      20 years is long enough for an information-based business to be completely thrown into turmoil by the internet. I'm not saying it was, but there's been a lot of change in the field. More so than in a lot of other markets.

    3. Re:"Almost two decades"? by nytes · · Score: 1

      Well, twenty years ago we didn't have the internet, and computers, and writable CD's, and record companies weren't complaining about music "piracy"...

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
  9. Who gets what, and from who? by garfnodie · · Score: 2

    I'm so confused now. There are artists, song writers, labels and publishers. Then there is physical media, purchased digital, free streaming, paid streaming, AM/FM and satellite. Who is getting paid and who is paying?

    1. Re:Who gets what, and from who? by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Who is getting paid and who is paying?

      Also, if your radio station is making $1 million in yearly revenue, how is paying $500 for the content (songs) considered fair?

    2. Re:Who gets what, and from who? by satch89450 · · Score: 2

      "Making" should be the profit, not the gross revenue brought in by station operaton. "Revenue" and "profit" get mixed in the minds of many people. They are not the same. When I worked for a 3 KW FM station as an intern years go, all the "revenue" went for operating costs of the station: building rent, transmitter land rent, property taxes, salaries (why do you think they liked a zero-dollar intern?), electricity, cost of network fees, consulting engineers (to conduct the measurements the FCC requires for the station "public files",) and all the rest. Most of the "giveaways" were paid for by the people buying advertising time, not the station itself. Those "free" tickets to concerts were contributed by the concert promoters to add some weight to their ad time. Sometimes the station operated at a loss, which is why the station owners had other businesses to prop up the station during lean times. It wasn't a hobby, but no one was getting rich from the operation of the station. Helping to keeping the money coming was the SBA channel sending out background music to the stores in town. All those tapes were rented, not purchased, because royalties had to be paid on that music coming from the ceiling of your local supermarket.

    3. Re:Who gets what, and from who? by tepples · · Score: 1

      All those tapes were rented, not purchased, because royalties had to be paid on that music coming from the ceiling of your local supermarket.

      In other words, it has become almost impossible to buy food without feeding the major record labels. Do I understand you correctly?

    4. Re:Who gets what, and from who? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      But content is just another one of those many costs. Given the quality of a radio station is heavily coupled to its content, and its audience heavily drawn to the content, is it really fair to expect the budget for content to be a mere 0.05% of revenues?

      Sounds pretty cheapskate to me.

  10. Final nail in the coffin of radio? by Mistakill · · Score: 1

    Some radio stations would definitely fold under this scheme, as they'd have to be more commercially oriented than now...

    IMO, the RIAA/MPAA can go fuck themselves... they're the ones killing the music/movie industry

    1. Re:Final nail in the coffin of radio? by gumbi+west · · Score: 2

      The summary said it would be $500 if you make less than $1M in revenue. Doesn't seem like a ton of money.

      If the huge corporate stations without jockeys fold I'm not so sure I care.

    2. Re:Final nail in the coffin of radio? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      The summary said it would be $500 if you make less than $1M in revenue. Doesn't seem like a ton of money.

      That's the whole idea. Ask for (or in this case demand) a little more from everybody, and hope the complaints are not too loud and it gets pushed through. Its just another quick buck.

    3. Re:Final nail in the coffin of radio? by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      It's not really a quick buck. The music industry is contracting because there isn't enough revenue. They need more bucks or there will be less music (likely just huge stars and less midlevel groups, which is most of what I love).

  11. Bit suprised that was not the case, already by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    In France, the SACEM is in charge of having any "music player" to pay something. "Music players" include TV, radio, nightclubs and even restaurants, cafés... someone plays some music, and there is always a SACEM agent to ensure they pay something, these people are as sticky as a pita.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Bit suprised that was not the case, already by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      That's right but then I believe that falls in the "license, not royalties" distinction.

      You can theoretically play only music not affiliated to the SACEM I guess but good luck with that.

  12. And why would that be? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What principled justification would there be for excluding 'religious' and 'talk' stations from payment? One would think that any 'religious' station would either be a nonprofit or deserve to pay like any other business; and 'talk' is huge business, and presumably not a terribly heavy consumer of music.

    I can take a few guesses about the pragmatic political considerations for those exemptions; but they aren't exactly complementary.

    1. Re:And why would that be? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What principled justification would there be for excluding 'religious' and 'talk' stations from payment?

      Obviously, this is an attempt to fight the scourge which is "christian rock". It would be terrible if we passed a law which resulted in those people earning revenues.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:And why would that be? by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Indeed, and further, I'm trying to understand how "religious and talk stations are exempt" is supposed to be reconciled with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". E.g. per the majority decision by the Supreme Court in Everson v. Board of Education (1947):

      The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion to another ... in the words of Jefferson, the [First Amendment] clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State' ... That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach.

      Seriously, how does a specific exemption for religious stations pass Constitutional muster? How are "Congressman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) and Marsha Blackburn (R-TN)" not in violation of their oath of office by introducing this bill?

  13. Would anti-religous talk... by EzInKy · · Score: 2

    ...stations be free of this forced payola as well? If not, is there are list somewhere of which dieties must be worshipped to escape this tax?

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  14. Incidentally... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Speaking of updating outdated regulations... Is it time to give some thought to the amount of precious, precious, spectrum we dedicate to broadcasting low quality audio using extraordinarily archaic techniques? Sure, I appreciate being able to tune in to talk radio with nothing but a chunk of germanium and the patience to poke it until it agrees to start rectifying; but I need a better reason than that to operate a dinosaur preserve.

    1. Re:Incidentally... by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Regarding FM radio at least : there are strong non-technical issues. Local stations (small ones, non profit etc.) would have to go to a middle man for multiplexing, if only digital radio is allowed. If they survive, they might only afford low bandwith : if a musical radio station has to sound like 64K MP3, kiss it good bye.
      Then there's the issue of being locked into some codec. MP2 radios have to be junked if you upgrade to AAC, and AAC is not that good anyway : it would be better to throw that stuff out and start again with Opus codec.

      Also : not only 20-year-old or 50-year-old radio receivers can be used, but those I own are very recent (a few years old) including that on my cell phone and they only support FM radio (the other pretends to support AM and only receives one station, barely)
      So when analog is turned off.. every one loses the ability to receive radio. At best, if there's line-in on your radio (what I call my "radio" has unused shit like a CD player, old ipod dock) you can connect a separate, digital radio to it.

    2. Re:Incidentally... by Megane · · Score: 1

      For those who didn't click on the link, the "HD" in "HD Radio" means "Hybrid Digital", not "high definition", and it was probably intended to be confusing like that. It's about 128Kbps on FM and 40Kbps (presumably mono) on AM. That's the level of data compression that people turn up their noses for in their MP3 player. Okay, so it uses AAC instead of MP3, but that's like saying it's not got as much boiled spinach in it.

      And it's proprietary on top of that. Anyone can build an analog AM or FM receiver out of a few electronic parts, but you have to have a computer and a bunch of algorithms to decode this audio slush.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  15. Oz Pop and Rock by Whiteox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They tried that in the late 60's in Australia. So the Aust. radio stations refused to play any US pop/rock and concentrated on available UK bands That very thing allowed the local industry to air home grown tracks on radio (and TV) and I for one think it was the beginning of the early commercial Oz music. Eventually the USA licensors gave up but the re-uptake of US bands by radio stations was slow.
    The other thing is that quite a few radio stations are owned by religious organizations, even though they are full commercial for the added revenue.

    --
    Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    1. Re:Oz Pop and Rock by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      They tried that in the late 60's in Australia. So the Aust. radio stations refused to play any US pop/rock and concentrated on available UK bands That very thing allowed the local industry to air home grown tracks on radio (and TV) and I for one think it was the beginning of the early commercial Oz music. Eventually the USA licensors gave up but the re-uptake of US bands by radio stations was slow.

      Similar thing happened in the US. Early MTV was dominated by British bands because they were the ones that had all the videos already made for Top of the Pops, were already written off as advertising, and would let MTV play them for free. This became known as the Second British invasion. Later, American music companies had to play ball and by then, MTV had power in the music industry. They still ended up paying for playing videos, but not as much as the record companies would like.

  16. The most obvious conclusion by Required+Snark · · Score: 1

    We now know the names of the two Congress critters who are owned by the RIAA/ASCAP/BMI.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  17. Something Seems Fishy... by linearZ · · Score: 1

    Nearly all terrestrial radio stations are part of a larger media conglomerate that are all vertically integrated. So the bulk of payments would be companies paying themselves? Is this some kind of tax dodge in the works? Or maybe it is the music industry about to go into another round of eating itself.

    --
    Revolution is the opium of the intellectuals.
  18. Poor starving artists by Trogre · · Score: 1

    It pits technologies against each other, and allows certain services to get away with paying little or nothing to artists.

    Just like the record companies, you mean?

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  19. Religious Exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why are we giving preferential treatment to religion and pompous windbags again? They're the ones with THE MOST MONEY.

    1. Re:Religious Exemption by BonThomme · · Score: 1

      "If you don't play music, you don't pay fees for playing music."

      Funny then, they didn't propose exactly that in the bill.

      "...while protecting religious and incidental uses of music from having to pay any royalties at all."

      You said something about someone's brain not working?

    2. Re:Religious Exemption by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Why, exactly, do you think religious radio stations don't play any music?

      I'd suggest that the reason religious radio stations are excluded is not because they don't play music, but probably has to do with which music labels they can actually arrange to pay royalties to, and the fact that many religious music artists do not deal with those labels.

  20. Better late than never? by foreverdisillusioned · · Score: 1

    I mean this is what...15 years after Napster? We've had Pandora, Spotify, Grooveshark, Slacker, etc. for years now. Plus iTunes, Google Play and Amazon MP3. And the exceptionally lazy/cheap can use Youtube for all their music needs.

    But no, now is the moment that we will make those motherfuckers in radio pay.

    Not that I've any love of Clear Channel, but still. Terrestrial radio is already an almost unbearable promotional and self-promotional machine (I know this because I have an old car without an audio line in or even CD player.) Satellite radio, while having some nice content, is more expensive than all of their internet competitors while being much less flexible and having a much smaller selection.

    This isn't going to give the artists a significant amount of money, but it is going to waste a significant amount of time.

  21. Why excempt anyone? by garry_g · · Score: 1

    Why the special handling of talk stations or - especially - religious stations? Given the tremendous wealth of churches, which themselves are already exempt from many taxes, there is no real reason for them not to pay the artists ...
    On a more general terms, all religions ought to be paying for their profits ... (of course allowing them to deduct expenses for operations as well as any cost that benefit needy etc. ...)

    1. Re:Why excempt anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm offended by the suggestion that religious institutions should be privileged. If people want to believe in whatever supernatural creature it is their right to do so, as long as they don't restrict other people's (e.g. their children's) freedom. If radio stations want to advertise that kind of delusion they're also free to do so. But they should do so under the same conditions as any other station that advertises sex and drugs and r&r. Religious privilege is against freedom of religion, which is a human right. It's also unconstitutional in the US.

    2. Re:Why excempt anyone? by JWW · · Score: 1

      Well, talk is excluded because they don't play music outside of the bumper music going into and out of commercial.

      You could argue that they should pay based on that, but then a talk station with less than $1 in revenue would be paying the same as a 24/7 music station, and that hardly seems fair. Plus if that happened, it could spell the end of bumper music and the talk stations would claim that they play no music, why are they being charged.

      The religious exemption, I have no clue. Religious music publishing and radio works the same as regular music.

    3. Re:Why excempt anyone? by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Really? It is? Seriously, do explain how giving preferential treatment to a religious establishment is not a constitutional violation of the First Amendment...

    4. Re:Why excempt anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If they don't play any music (which I doubt), why do they need an exemption? Also: you bold typeface and language in no way forward your argument.

  22. Who do these payments go to? by rnturn · · Score: 1

    To some bureaucratic organization that keeps 99 cents of every dollar to cover the administrative costs and lets the artists share the remaining one cent?

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  23. It's about the gangsters and hoes, really. by gilgongo · · Score: 1

    "For decades, AM/FM radio has used whatever music it wants without paying a cent to the musicians"

    That is completely false. They pay to ASCAP and BMI, who in turn pay to the musicians. That is why those organisations exist.

    The real issue here is that those organisations are shameless parasites who take almost all the money for themselves before passing anything to the people they claim to represent.

    A finer example of how utterly venal the music business is. Any musician who deals with them gets what they deserve, in my opinion.

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    1. Re:It's about the gangsters and hoes, really. by zuki · · Score: 1

      You're confusing two totally different aspects of music licensing.

      One pertains to the publishing (a.k.a. "mechanical royalties" = "the song" as recorded by anyone) and the other is ownership of that specific sound recording. The owner of the publishing is not necessarily the same as that of the sound recording, more often than not it's someone totally different.

      Also, double-whammy because foreign artists cannot collect from US radio, so US artists and sound recording copyright owners are reciprocally prevented from collecting income for the rest of the world, that money goes to "black box".

      Radio stations on the entire planet are all paying for these performance fees of copyrighted sound recordings. Only the US differs, because of this backwards exemption dating back to the 1930's

      Please consider toning down the rhetoric, these sort of knee-jerk uninformed comments are not flattering to your understanding of this particular situation. I'd wager that if you look closely enough, any large corporate business is just as venal, without fail. Merely an opinion...

  24. This is a marginal business by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    Radio stations don't make a lot of money and publishers have been happy for many years with the status quo. I think this is really about hammering internet radio services. Internet radio services point at AM/FM services and say "look at them, they don't pay either"... and as a result, that depresses the bargaining position of publishers with internet radio.

    They want more money from internet radio. And that's also silly because that is also a marginal business. They're basically not making money as it is. If they are forced to pay more they have to charge more and asking listeners to pony up more money every month is going to depress subscriptions and possibly drive the entire service into bankruptcy. Leaving the industry with nothing but itunes and piracy.

    The music industry is run by idiots. We've known this for years. They were approuched by the founders of napster long before they actually started pushing pirated music. They said "hey, lets set up a music service run by the music industry.". We all know what happened. The music bozos threw them out and said don't come back.

    How has that worked out for the music business? They keep thinking they can turn the clock back. They can't. They need to get ahead of the curve or get crushed.

    Their cash reserves and social capital/clout are a diminishing resource. The window of opportunity to have any agency in this issue is closing. They can either wake up or become irrelevant.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  25. Re:All you need to know about the sponsors. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    So will it be OK to play religious music - or if a station is predominantly religious to play some pop music? Giant loophole.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  26. Great idea! by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    Now, how are we going to calculate how much the music industry and artists owe radio for all the decades of free marketing and hit-manufacturing?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  27. Re:Changing the Royalty rules by disposable60 · · Score: 1

    Skim all they can until radio stations are suddenly very affordable as label-exclusive marketing arms ... as if they're not 90% of the way there already.

    --
    You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
  28. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes they absolutely would LOVE to return to the days of Payola, because that meant THEY were in control of what got played on the air, when, and thus in control of WHO WAS POPULAR.

    They aren't pissed the internet plays music, they love that. What they hate is that they cannot control who hears what, where, and when and thus figure out how best to monetize it and get back into the glory days of hookers and blow once more.

    Its not about revenue, it never was. Its always been about control. Control makes revenue meaningless because they can affect revenue directly if they can tell the public who they have to blow their money on this month.

    Always always always look for the truth behind the lie. If they say its about the money, you can believe that is the last thing its about.

  29. You might not Win but you can make sure they Lose by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    Want to starve 'The Man' out of existence, deny 'The Man' access to your wallet, deny 'The Man' access to your choices, deny 'The Man' access to your relationships, deny 'The Man' everything you can, you might not win but when enough of us do it, 'The Man', also loses.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  30. Really? by MitchDev · · Score: 1

    Just when you thought Radio couldn't get any worse...

    Scrap goddamn copyright law already, this is WAY out of hand...

    Radio = FREE ADVERTISING, consider yourself lucky if your music gets played/

    Thank god for mp3 players, haven't used the radio in years (thanks to the FCC helping destroy radio by letting the same two or three companies own EVERY station in every market)

  31. Only tax behavior you wish to stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The fallout from this will be more radio stations transitioning to talk radio formats. Fewer people will hear the corporate music. Sales will plummet.

  32. More illegal religious exemptions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Failure to tax an entity solely on religious grounds is tantamount to State sponsorship of that religion.

    Taxing a religious entity is absolutely nothing like infringing upon the free exercise of religion by an individual. People are still free to practice their religion all they want even if their organized, usually for-profit religious entity has to pay a tax.

  33. I'm puzzled: "all artists are fairly compensated" by Jerry+Atrick · · Score: 2

    The article quotes "all artists are fairly compensated".

    Why would the publishers and music companies ever support something like that? Their business is based on making sure artists collect as little as possible of their royalties, assisted by collecting organisations siphoning off their share.

    Something smells fishy, unless this is actually a strike against middlemen like the BMI? Probably with the end goal of handing collection over to the music biz further guaranteeing artists don't in fact get "fairly compensated".

  34. Wouldn't it be better to go the other way? by sabbede · · Score: 2

    And extend it from terrestrial broadcasts to satellite and internet radio? Never did understand why the recording industry gets to charge some people to advertise their product.

  35. Re:You might not Win but you can make sure they Lo by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    you might not win but when enough of us do it, 'The Man', also loses.

    And this is why civilizations fall, instead of fixing themselves. Because revolution only works when enough of us are on the same page at once. Nobody wants to be first. By the time enough people are upset to fix things, the society falls into revolt and then you usually get an even worse government, which is just as corrupt as the old government but also ignorant of how to operate a nation.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  36. Set your watch by the song ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    My problem with commercial radio is that you can often set your watch by which song is playing.

    I was on vacation a month or so, an on one particular day, it seemed every damned time I was in the car it was the exact same song playing.

    I think this royalty thing, however, is complete and utter crap, because I completely disagree that the music studios should be paid royalties for the music stations to keep overplaying their pop songs.

    I suspect if the radio stations didn't just keep paying the same songs over and over they'd be less popular or even well known.

    And, of course, the real eventual grab here is the claim that every time I play something I've bought I should also be paying them ... because music companies are run by assholes whose greed knows no bounds.

    At the end of the day I don't care if they try to put radio stations out of business, because I've given up listening to radio. But I'm still someone who buys a LOT of music and rips them to MP3. And it irks me to no end these clowns are likely sitting around trying to figure out how to have my iPod collect payment every time I play a song.

    I sincerely hope they try this and then suddenly find nobody plays their pop songs on rotation and their record sales fall even further. Then these idiots might realize they can't monetize every damned play of a song without cutting out how many they actually sell.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  37. Campaign Contributions by lbmouse · · Score: 1

    Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) - Oct 1, 2012 - Sep 30, 2014:
    #1 Lawyers/Law Firms - $123,056
    #2 TV/Movies/Music (RIAA) - $95,600

    Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) - Oct 1, 2012 - Sep 30, 2014
    #1 Health Professionals - $244,950
    #2 Pharmaceuticals/Health Products - $155,250
    #3 Oil & Gas - $111,100
    #4 TV/Movies/Music (RIAA) - $95,450

    For less than $100,000 per year you too can own a couple members of Congress.

  38. YOU ARE WRONG by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    LICENSES are merely the means to collect the fees to pay the royalties. They are, in fact one and the same. One is merely the means of securing the other.

    BMI and ASCAP pay the writers of the music.
    RIAA is payment merely for the use of a recording.

    Frankly, any such law, should state that 75% of the royalties should go directly to the artists. Otherwise, there should be no collection. Presently, most artists rarely see any of their royalties. It used to be because artists were indebted to the recording studios. But these days, many artists self-produce professional quality musicin home studios - often of better quality than the recording label studios. (As the latter rush the production of the recording, where as home studio artists spend hundreds and thousands of hours tweaking things to perfection.)

    1. Re:YOU ARE WRONG by unitron · · Score: 1

      Actually they pay whoever owns the publishing rights, whether they wrote any music or not.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  39. Radio Cartel has a simple way of stopping this... by PortHaven · · Score: 2

    All they have to do is pick one of the big 5 labels, one of the smaller two. And say....

    Oops....NONE OF YOUR ARTISTS are getting any airplay.

    That label will tank, as none of their artists will get sales. Meanwhile, those artists will riot, because they will be locked into contracts unable to move to another company, and unable to make profits. The result - RIAA will backpedal.

  40. Now that I am famous by jjhues7676 · · Score: 1

    Music artists would not be famous without radio station playing music that they think we want to hear. So now that I am famous, you need to pay me for making me famous.

  41. So... by plazman30 · · Score: 1

    Why exactly is our government passing laws that make a private business process mandatory? Who got paid off to make this happen?

  42. Re:All you need to know about the sponsors. by BonThomme · · Score: 1

    Royalties make baby jesus cry.

  43. How much will radio stations charge for advertisin by mpercy · · Score: 1

    How much will radio stations charge the artists for advertising their music so that people buy their songs?

  44. the real problem by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    They should get a fine for overplaying a song. That would end the largest problem in the history of radio.

  45. This is so backwards it's sad by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    Radio should play whatever the hell it wants. And people whose music is played should pay radio ("payola") because their sales increase from the exposure.

    If stations have to license music to play it, then perhaps terrestrial radio should start playing more new artists, and fuck the major labels. seriously, fuck them to hell.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  46. Bleah by Enry · · Score: 1

    For 6 weeks a year I have a compilation of Christmas music that I broadcast online for anyone to listen to. Two years ago I figured I'd go legal and do my bit to make sure artists get paid, so I set up an account at Stream Licensing, mostly since I didn't want to deal with individual licensing organizations. The rules placed on SL that then get placed on me are crazy. Here's a small sample from their TOS

    In any three-hour period, you should not intentionally program more than three songs (and not more than two songs in a row) from the same recording; you should not intentionally program more than four songs (and not more than three songs in a row) from the same recording artist or anthology/box set.

    Requests may not be played at a specified time and must not intentionally break the artist and song rotation rules (above). If your service substantially consists of programming from requests, requests must be delayed for at least one hour. For more info see under Item 13 below.

    This license is for non-interactive streaming which means your listeners may not determine in any way when a specific song will be played. Non-interactive streaming specifically means broadcasting an Internet radio stream. You may NOT archive old shows and make them available as podcasts or as shows available on demand. Should you choose to do so, such activity is NOT covered under your StreamLicensing Affiliation. This is not a rule we made up, it is copyright law.

    Not only that, I can't have users go directly to my site to listen. I need to either include a flash player widget on my site or create a frame that really goes to SL's site in order to give people a link to go to.

  47. "below market royalties" confuses me.... by rjr162 · · Score: 2

    If the terrestrial radio stations aren't paying anything... and there's now one US Satellite music company basically... how in the hell can you say the one satellite music company that IS paying you at least something is paying "below market royalties". I mean, what are they calling the "market" royalties as the only other thing really left is internet streaming, which they made sure years ago to put in place a crazy high rate.

    Was that the plan all along? Get internet radio stations to have to pay some crazy royalty fee and then later bitch that the other options, like satellite, are paying a "below market royalty" compared to internet streaming? I mean, it's not really below market, it's just lower than your extremely high forced/made up market price...

  48. Wait . . . by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    People still listen to the radio ?

    Why ?

    I turned it off years ago after tiring of hearing the same music over and Over and OVER again. You can damn near set your watch between the time you hear a particular song and the next time you hear it. Repeatable throughout the day. EVERY DAY. :|

    Hell, for that matter, I don't even listen to commercialized music anymore. It's all homogenized and built around a template designed to make the studios as much money as possible. The audio is highly compressed and pushed to clipping limits across the entire waveform. If nothing else, the internet has given me the opportunity to listen to music that isn't part of the forced popularity program that the radio stations have turned into.

  49. will public libraries have to pay royalties? by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

    Libraries buy copies of music, then loan those out to the public. No royalties needed. Maybe not the same as a radio station, but if libraries are ever allowed and able to go mostly digital, they will become able to broadcast all over the world as easily as radio stations now broadcast to small areas near their transmitters.

    This royalties scheme sounds like an attempt to quietly add a whole other business model and profit mechanism to the music industry, without them having to give up anything. Typical of the rotten deals big business offers the public.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  50. Some additional things to consider by zuki · · Score: 2

    This situation is clearly something that few understand. We have two different aspects of copyright here On one hand we have ASCAP and BMI as well as Harry Fox Agency who have responsibilities to handle the income from radio play on behalf of their member songwriters and their publishers.

    However due to an exemption granted by US Congress around 1937 terrestrial radio was granted a limited reprieve from paying the owners of the sound recordings (not publishers, who get paid) any royalties in order to build their broadcasting networks. You would think that by now they have built them after almost 80 years?

    To add insult to injury, because this ruling prevents foreign copyright owners from collecting any performance royalties from their material being broadcast by US radio, these countries around the world reciprocate and deny US owners of sound recordings any income from music they own that gets played on radio stations around the globe, which unlike the US typically do pay sound recording owners for the use of this material.

    Clearly, most if not all radio stations around the rest of the world do pay sound recording owners for use of songs in their catalogs, and still manage to thrive.

    But the lobbying power of the NAB (National broadcasters' association) and the dizzying amounts of money they've spent spreading FUD on making US radio like the rest of the world would be the death of them -> the famous campaign "The Day They Killed The Music" which should really be renamed "The Day They Killed Fat Corporate Profits To Radio Mega-Conglomerates".

    Because even though terrestrial stations across the entire planet have managed to thrive and survive while paying such fees to sound recording owners for all of these years, somehow in the US enacting this legislation would make them die off. Well, one thing for sure: they'd make less profits because they would have to share some of the income with the very people who created the sound recordings; yes, those that they have gotten in the habit of using for free.

    It used to be that "one hand washes the other" because radio play ensured such massive sales that those who got their music played reaped a huge windfall in record sales. So it was tolerated, and no one in their right frame of mind would have dared challenge this. But now that record sales are down to a trickle of their former glory, it's looking as if the exemption has run its course and it doesn't make sense anymore to let radio stations benefit from this anachronistic advantage that hurts sound recording owners doubly by also denying them income from play of their masters overseas.

    Again: sound recordings, not the musical compositions themselves nor the publishers who represent the interest of those who wrote them.

    Lastly, a few years ago terrestrial radio was obviously quite keen on forcing Internet radio startups (unwanted competition) to pay these royalties to sound recording owners they themselves are exempt from. Surely they could anticipate that by doing this, someone was going to eventually challenge their hegemony, and call for fairness across the whole spectrum of broadcasters. Classic case of pot calling the kettle back.

    They've gotten away with it for so long, and built empires from this exemption. It's time for this anachronistic advantage to be erased. One thing we can be sure: they'd rather spend billions making sure it never turns into law rather than spending the same paying it to the owners of the sound recordings whose catalogs they built their business model around, by using them for free for so many decades.

  51. We've come nearly full circle by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

    In the beginning labels were paying stations to play their artists music, now stations will pay artists or rather labels to play their artists music.

    Why again do they assume this will benefit the artists?

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  52. Singer-songwriter by tepples · · Score: 1

    Well, "performers" certainly isn't in there.

    They are if they are also composers.

    1. Re:Singer-songwriter by unitron · · Score: 1

      But radio isn't paying royalties or licensing fees or whatever you want to call it on their performance, they're paying it for the having composed it part, so whether the composer is a recording artist is irrelevant to that.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:Singer-songwriter by tepples · · Score: 1

      My point is to advise recording artists thus: "Radio won't pay royalties to recording artists. So become a composer if you want those royalties."

  53. Determining originality by tepples · · Score: 1

    But these days, many artists self-produce professional quality musicin home studios - often of better quality than the recording label studios.

    How do artists who write their own songs make sure that these songs are in fact original? See, for example, "My Sweet Lord" by George Harrison that was discovered to have been a subconscious copy of "He's So Fine" by Ronald Mack, or "Stay with Me" by Sam Smith that was discovered to have been a subconscious copy of "I Won't Back Down" by Tom Petty.

  54. Work made for hire by tepples · · Score: 1

    There are a lot of people besides artists who work hard to make music. There are many jobs that need to be done.

    And the people who do these important jobs ought to be paid for their time on a "work made for hire" basis, as opposed to a residual basis. Does the company that built an office building, for example, continue to receive royalties from transactions conducted in that building?

    1. Re:Work made for hire by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      No arguing there, and that's probably how they are paid. When the firm decides if it should make an additional album (so, this would be a low level star group, they always make as many huge star songs as they can get from them), they have to think about how much it will cost and how much money they will make. If they think it will make more money than it will cost, they probably make the album / song.

  55. Re-buy by tepples · · Score: 1

    a song can only be sold once to a listener

    Then what are vinyl, replacement for worn vinyl, cassette, CD, DVD Audio/SACD, MP3, and higher bitrate MP3?

  56. Data plans still cost money by tepples · · Score: 1

    Now that Google Maps has added the real time traffic overlay on maps, even that is going away as people use a cell GPS to avoid traffic gridlock.

    Radio is a way of avoiding having to pay a cell carrier an extra $400 a year for a data plan in order to stream music or traffic data in a moving vehicle.

  57. Seems fair by bobjr94 · · Score: 1

    For years broadcasters have been trying to kill alternative radio(streaming, satellite) by saying they must pay fees much higher than they do. Now it's their turn. If radio stations are making a profit of playing music, then a percentage of the profit is due back. If the station is small or makes little to no income then their money paid would be much lower or zero. They need to base it on each stations income and make the same rules apply to all (broadcast, streaming, satellite, podcasts). They can't charge a small online radio station something like $500, but a major market radio station would be different.

  58. goodbye public domain... by TheDawgLives · · Score: 2
    From TFA:

    Make a clear statement that pre-1972 recordings have value and those who are profiting from them must pay appropriate royalties for their use

    So, royalties for songs that are 43 years old and older... I can hear the founding fathers crying from their graves.

    --
    -TheDawgLives suckitdown
  59. I am sick to *DEATH* by msobkow · · Score: 1

    I am sick to death of "religious" groups getting a pass on taxes and fees. 99% of those organizations are big businesses with only the loosest of ties to "faith." Let them pay, pay, and pay again like every other business.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:I am sick to *DEATH* by Cederic · · Score: 1

      If I was in the US I'd be a one man religion and enjoying all the tax breaks.

    2. Re:I am sick to *DEATH* by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      You can also go to Greece. As soon as you build a chapel on your property you can file for tax exemption. Why do you think Greece is out of cash?

  60. Congresscritter Blithering I.Diot by swschrad · · Score: 1

    since the late 40s, ASCAP has required licenses for airplay, and the broadcasters created their own licensing agency, BMI in the 50s. when I was growing up a broadcast brat, the music director weeded out incoming discs that were not of those two organizations (CAPAC in Canada later reached a deal with ASCAP to collect their royalties), and counted up the needle drops. nickle a drop in those days, it was raised to 7 cents a play in the 70s. stations cut their check every month to the agencies.

    in the past dozen-odd years, BMI in particular has been putting boots on the ground, checking restaurants, coffee shops, doctors offices, whatever to see if they had a reuse license for music. if you had Muzak or 3M service, they walked out. if not, and you didn't have a license, it was mafia time... sign a contract right there, or you're sued. it applies whether you have your own discs or tapes, or are playing the radio.

    recently outfits have been putting up their own music streams across their chains... "Subway radio" "LA Fitness Network" and so on. if the HQs don't have their licenses, as Muzak and 3M arranged, they are up shit crick.

    why this bozo congresscritter didn't do any research of his own... oh that's right, their instructions are in the envelope with the cash... well, he's an idiot.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  61. it's there, if you search enough by swschrad · · Score: 1

    1) if you play music beyond personal enjoyment, which license is inherent in "buying a record," you need to license the play with ASCAP or BMI as appropriate for the song. scale varies depending on audience size; there are deals for radio stations and web usage.

    2) if you wish to license the songs for playing in your own band for public performance, there is a set rate.

    3) if you would like a custom album or CD for a special occasion, you need to license master usage from the Harry Fox Agency. I thought about it for my wedding music, but looked north of $60 a copy. nope.

    4) if by chance you wanted any artwork used on the original album, you would have to negotiate that with the art owner, typically the record company.

    this is why all the record outfits have "special services" departments. correlate it all, make the package, one stop, one check.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:it's there, if you search enough by ah.clem · · Score: 1

      1) if you play music beyond personal enjoyment, which license is inherent in "buying a record," you need to license the play with ASCAP or BMI as appropriate for the song. scale varies depending on audience size; there are deals for radio stations and web usage.

      2) if you wish to license the songs for playing in your own band for public performance, there is a set rate.

      3) if you would like a custom album or CD for a special occasion, you need to license master usage from the Harry Fox Agency. I thought about it for my wedding music, but looked north of $60 a copy. nope.

      4) if by chance you wanted any artwork used on the original album, you would have to negotiate that with the art owner, typically the record company.

      this is why all the record outfits have "special services" departments. correlate it all, make the package, one stop, one check.

      Speaking as a semi-preforming musician, I would like to point a few things out in this posting that I believe are misconceptions.

      Points 1 and 2 are basically the same (I do find it a bit hard to understand point 1, but I assume you mean "performance for hire", like in a restaurant). Both of these licensing situations are the the responsibility of the venue - the venue, not the performers, pay the blanket licensing fee to ASCAP, BMI and SESAC, generally through a middleman (IIRC) that handles the licensing for them. At no time is the performer ever charged for the licensing.

      Point 3 - this would be true if you are compiling the CD yourself and holding the performance at a venue that does not pay the licensing; generally, wedding reception venues have met the point above regarding appropriate licensing. Likewise, having a wedding CD ("Mixtape CD") can be done by a professional company that has paid the licensing fees - you can specify the titles desired - and it should not cost you anywhere near $60 per copy. But I do encourage you to hire live musicians rather than relying on a CD or DJ. Cheaper for you, but tougher on real, live musicians.

      Point 4 - agreed on this - if you want artwork, you need to either deal with the publishers or copyright holders, but there are many specialized art dealers that supply album art. It's not cheap, but it's not just for millionaires, either. They are generally high-quality ink jet reproductions of the original work (Giclee, fancy French word for "you paid a lot of money for an ink-jet print").

      Also, interesting point - there are "operatives" for the major licensing companies that regularly visit venues (bar, restaurants, reception halls, etc.) to confirm that the correct licensing is in place. And there are a large number of "mom 'n pop" venues (restaurants and bars, mostly) that do not have any licensing. As a performer, it's best to check that out, if it matters to you. The big chain places generally have it all covered.

      --
      "Life is not magic." Dr. Ron Weiss - "If we don't play God, who will?" Dr. James Watson
  62. payment schedules by chilenexus · · Score: 1

    Someone composes/writes a song, they get royalties for life on it. Performers not so much.

    If we did the same thing for the movie industry, the majority of money for the blockbuster movies would be going to the script writers(as opposed to the scale lump sum they normally get now) instead of the producers/directors/actors. But maybe we'd be getting some more innovative and original movies for a change.

    1. Re:payment schedules by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      Many writers and actors now rather opt for a lower lump sum payment in exchange for a cut on the box office revenue. Many earn much more that way than they ever could before. It is also a better deal for the movie studios because the up front cost is lower and the risk is shared. If a movie flops they all get less.

  63. Born earlier by tepples · · Score: 1

    Media company founders did one important thing: be born earlier. The Walt Disney Company, for example, was able to "plunder" the public domain, dupe legislatures into extending the copyright term so that no one else can do the same, and then secure trademarks on the names of characters in notable fairy tales. For instance, if modern copyright terms existed in the early 1940s, the film Pinocchio would have infringed a copyright owned by the estate of Carlo Collodi. And if you search USPTO.gov, you'll find a trademark owned by Disney for the name "PINOCCHIO".

  64. Thanks for the info. by franciscoeduca · · Score: 1

    Thanks, have a nice day :) http://www.educa.net/primeros-...

  65. Obviously from a socialist country by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    regulations that allow terrestrial radio stations to avoid paying royalties to artists and labels.

    what property-rights hating country would allow that to happen?

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    1. Re:Obviously from a socialist country by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      That was the outcome of the payola agreements. Radio stations used to pay royalties, but then record labels started paying radio stations to play their artists exclusively pushing them into the public's ears. That was deemed illegal and in return the radio station owners pushed through that with payola ending they will be generally exempt from royalty payments. Why do you think why big corps like Clearchannel still operate thousands of radio stations? They play the bulk of their programming mainly for free, give the hosts some crumbs, and otherwise cash in on endorsements and ad sales. For profit radio is a big money maker because it is relatively cheap to operate in comparison to the money that can be made with it, especially with large scale operations that easily can lower production costs even more with syndicated programming. Even the artists and their iHeartRadio organization are cashing in on this big time. Yes, they stoop to a level too low for them and thank their fans and blah blah, but in the end it is nothing but an act to keep their business running. This is not a rule from a socialist country, but from a dog eat dog purely capitalistic profits over everything country like the US in most parts is still today.

    2. Re: Obviously from a socialist country by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Yeucch! And this is accepted by the sheeple? Horrors!

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  66. Why exclude religious and talk? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    Religious and talk radio stations can cough up the 100$ as easily or as difficult as non-profits ,so why exclude them? I do agree that ARTISTS should be compensated for their work, but the royalties go to the rights owners which in most cases are either rich individuals or corporations or the publishing record labels. The system is broken because most of money does not end up with the artists, but with others. Yes, they do on occasion shoulder the risk and make upfront payments for production and distribution, but they charge those expenses back to the artists. This is why many rather turn to YouTube, give their recordings away for free, and focus more on live performances and touring where the artists get a much bigger cut than by selling CDs. Especially now that more and more distribution occurs digitally reducing the production and distribution expenses significantly the money left over for record labels, managements, and rights owners is getting much bigger (something they now realize after going ballistic on Napster years back instead of embracing the new channel). Further, the copyright law needs fixing. Royalties are to be paid to the original artists until their death (record labels and others can sign contracts with them securing their cut) and after that 30 years (one generation) to the rights holder. After that the work is royalty free, but not public domain, means it can only be used by giving proper credit. If politicians want to fix the system, they should put the artists in control and end the business of cashing in on music generations later. Having folks collect the money even 70 years after the artist died or in some cases even longer is just plain wrong! The term limit should go back to the 1790s act which is much more along the American spirit where every generation has to earn its own wealth, not live off some work others did. For same reason inheritances need to be taxed heavily if they are above a specific limit (don't tax gramma's old house, but tax grampa's global corp)....but that is a different discussion.

  67. Re:They killed it already by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    Especially AM broadcast! While it has a far reach and is really simple to operate about 98% of the energy needed is used to heat air. AM radio is a colossal energy waster...and who the frack listens to these whacked out talk hosts (RL comes to mind) anyway?