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A 2-Year-Old Has Become the Youngest Person Ever To Be Cryonically Frozen
merbs writes: After losing a long battle with brain cancer, 2-year-old Matheryn Naovaratpong became the first minor ever to be cryogenically frozen. This article is the story of how a Thai girl was frozen in Bangkok and shipped to Arizona to have her brain preserved in liquid nitrogen, while medical science works on a cure. "Typically we’d move the head from the trunk of the body. We didn't know what their reaction would be from the family, the mortuary, from border officials; this has to go through a number of shipping venues, customs, the TSA and so on. To see a frozen head in a box might have raised a number of red flags. In the U.S. that’s not a big deal, but there, they may not be accustomed."
Was the previous record hold by Ian Solo?
Ok.. I read this..
"To see a frozen head in a box might have raised a number of red flags. In the U.S. that’s not a big deal, but there, they may not be accustomed."
And I think.. what the fuck is wrong with this country???
Here in the US people ship frozen heads around all the time.
I can remember reading several articles which stated that cryonics doesn't work because the freezing process is not perfect - it does not stop decomposition, which older frozen specimens were starting to show. Why do people still spend money on this?
My son was frozen through embryonic cryopreservation.
(I'm not actually equating the difficulty of resuscitation at embryonic stage with that of a live-born human. It's a complete difference in magnitude and difficulty, obviously.)
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
*Fry sees a balloon go past saying 'Happy New Year 3000!'*
Fry: Wait a minute, is that blimp accurate?
Leela: Yep! It's December 31st 2999.
Fry:*thinks how far he's time travelled* My God! A million years!
"Oh look, wavy tiramisu! They won't notice if I give some to my pals..."
Table-ized A.I.
The start of personhood is a philosophical debate. It has no scientific answer, but in red states a definition of when cells become a person is going to be shoved down our throats. I don't rightly know if that embryo is a person or not, but I think we should agree we don't really know.
Trying to legislate that, in my humble opinion, is legislation of the same ilk as defining the legal definition of pi.
Not to be too harsh about it, but presumably, brain cancer ravished her brain, right? Even putting aside that cryogenic freezing is bullshit pseudoscience to begin with, how exactly would finding a cure for brain cancer in the future help someone who already had their brain destroyed by it? That's like giving FDR the polio vaccine and expecting him to walk again.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
PI has a definition already, it is the ratio of a circles circumference to it's diameter.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
But has he been unfrozen? I assume so, but only because I know what you're talking about.** A customs official in Thailand might have no clue.
** And because I presume you're not an Evangelical wacko who would refer to a frozen embryo as your son. Not that Evangelicals would actually do that, come to think of it. Which is telling, I think.
Why do people still spend money on this?
It gives them hope. Does it harm you for them to spend their money this way? Sure there are other things they could do that would likely be more beneficial for mankind as a whole, but there are worse things, too.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
After curing the cancer in 25 years, and tthen 275 years later when we figure out how to reanimate frozen brain cells, this kid's going to be like, "What do you mean I'm an orphan?"
Why did they remove the head? It seems to me the lack of a body is what's going to not get you unfrozen in the future, not the cancer. The cure for cancer is probably a whole lot morel likely lthan any time when we can sucessfully graft a head onto a whole new body, or cause the head to grow one.
Then of course there's the whole question of why anyone in the future would even want to go to the expense and effort of defrosting and curing you when there's already too many people in the world, and also a whole lot easier and more pleasurable ways of making more should you want to.
They will declare such cells "corporations" to give them legal personhood
Table-ized A.I.
"To see a frozen head in a box might have raised a number of red flags. In the U.S. that’s not a big deal..."
The point went whizzing over your head, apparently.
There have been legislatures that have attempted to pass bills that would have legally set the definition of pi to a set number (or at least implied it). This happened in Indiana in the late 1800s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...
These kids today, with the frozen heads and the music ...
I bought this house and you know I'm boss
Ain't no h'aint gonna run me off
Did this have to do with In-Vitro Fertilization?
That's why they do it. Loosing a child is something that hurts an awful lot. Watching them die from cancer has to be gut wrenching.
Spending a few bucks to feel maybe somewhat better? Priceless.
Pain is a motivator for many things.
I am not sure this was the best choice for a 2 year old child's remains. But then again what do I know. I'd pet Cemetery my kids if that shit was supposed to work and I could try.
Heh. There was an episode of House where as an aside, the topic of the over/under age on attempting significant risky medical procedures on children was brought up. House asserted that the age was seven.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Kids these days can't write DNA code that won't suddenly freeze.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
A cure to having your body, face, and entire skull surgically removed? Good luck with that.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Yes.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
Yes, he is 4 months old now.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
It's an interesting question, but I think you mean he was born 4 months ago. But since he was frozen as an embryo how old is he really? A couple years?
The apostrophe has a definition already, it's means it is.
The headline gets it right, but the summary gets it wrong. Does no-one watch QI around here?
TFS's headline is also a lot better than TFA's:
The Girl Who Would Live Forever
Ugh.
This whole thing strikes me as a little ridiculous, and the fluffy tone of the article really doesn't help.
The core of Einz’s two-year-old being now rests in cryofreeze in Arizona
40% of the "core of her being" (80% of the left hemisphere) had already been destroyed during surgery to treat the caner.
in wait of a cure, and a means to regrow her body.
By which time, unless they get themselves frozen as well, her parents will be long dead. For that matter, her country and her culture (not that she'll remember much of it, having spent most of her tragically short life in hospitals) will probably be long dead as well.
Far more likely, I suspect, is that the technology will never come into being at all, or our current procedures will turn out to be so lacking as to make the attempt impossible in her case.
As harsh as it may sound, and as a non-parent I really have no decent insight into their mindset, I think it might have been best for the parents to say their goodbyes, to grieve properly and learn to do their best to live their lives without their daughter.
And instead of being frozen in a vault somewhere to await a ressurection that may never happen, her brain could instead have been further studied to aid in the fight against this disease in those still living.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Then logically everyone who has miscarried should be charged with manslaughter, and child neglect, for not keeping their child safe.
Every empryo which fails to implant in the uterus is obviously a failure of the mother.
Do you really want to go down that road considering how many natural cases of that there are?
I get that she has cancer, but who in their right mind would let someone do this to their child? Just let her die in peace.
Let it go....
Turn away and slam the door!
I don't care...
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Age is normally expressed from birth, rather than conception.
Arrggh two words that look and sound almost alike in back-to-back posts. I'm sooooo confused. Arrggh!!!!
We transferred 2 from two different IVF cycles, so around either 14 months or 17 months.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
While you are 100% accurate about when "personhood" begins (being Philosophical), we do know that premature babies as young as 24 weeks of gestation have been born, and survived. Would you at least say that was at least one likely boundry of "personhood"?
The problem is, that the Blue State abortion fanatics refuse to establish even a baseline, because they know that once that line is drawn in the sand, it can be argued for movement. They refuse to even define the line in the sand, because they are just as fanatical as the Red State crowd on this issue.
Making it about Red State anti scientific types, when it is much more nuanced than that, is a disservice to the discussion.
Here is my suggestion for "personhood", legal scientific accurate. Personhood starts the moment the fetus (baby) is able to survive outside the womb. We know when that is, because we have proof via example.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
They are still working on better chemical cocktails for cryopreservation. We know we can do this with single-celled organisms and there is some evidence it works on organs as well. It might be questionable science, in that you might pay in and never wake up again, but it isn't really junk science.
All science is questionable science. That's what makes science distinct from religion.
It might be a science experiment, but that doesn't make it *medically* sound.
> Does it harm you for them to spend their money this way? Sure there are other things they could do that would likely be more beneficial for mankind as a whole, but there are worse things, too.
Just like fake fortune tellers then?
Or building nuclear bombs. There are worse things they could do: they could *use* them. So it's okay, right?
#reasonfail
I thought the headline was going to finish "become an MCSE"
My 2 year old was frozen and thawed. She has 5 twins still sitting in the freezer.
Cryonics is basically like any death ritual (cremation, burring, funerals, etc), Its about the (unlikely) hope of some life after death and giving some measure of closure to the living. Sure its extremely unlikely to go anywhere, chances are some bankruptcy, economic collapse or natural disaster is going to destroy the brains/bodies long before technology advances to a point where they can be revived but who cares? If push comes to shove at a minimum we'll have some fairly well preserved bodies/brains in a few decades/centuries for future scientists to study assuming the company goes bankrupt. If we have a major economic collapse these bodies/brains can join a significant portion of humanities other "accomplishments" (fashion, popular culture, modern movies, etc) in decay. And on the long shot maybe these people will give direct witness to the time period in which they lived if it happens to succeed.
To see a frozen head in a box might have raised a number of red flags.
You're doing it wrong then.
A 2 year old... might be the only frozen human that would stand a chance of adapting to whatever future has the tech to bring her back.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
You are wrong, and I am not denying anything from my "victims" because I have in fact, never performed an abortion on myself, not on anyone else.
You are an abomination and will probably end up in "the other place" if it exists.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
But has he been unfrozen? I assume so, but only because I know what you're talking about.** A customs official in Thailand might have no clue.
** And because I presume you're not an Evangelical wacko who would refer to a frozen embryo as your son. Not that Evangelicals would actually do that, come to think of it. Which is telling, I think.
You've never known a religious nut who believed that even embryos spontaneously aborted at 4 - 6 weeks are babies. Kind of gross (and disturbing) when I opened the fridge and asked "What is that?"
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
It is a set number. It's not an integer, but real numbers are certainly numbers, and pi is a constant in Euclidean geometry.
Not a sentence!
Only in Euclidean geometry. In other geometries (e.g. in lp =/=2 space or in a gravity well if you want something physical) it doesn't hold.
That's what I love about maths: mathmeticians are an imaginitive bunch and capable of dreaming up truly crazy things.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
thanks but no thanks
http://motherboard-images.vice...
It has no scientific answer, but in red states a definition of when cells become a person is going to be shoved down our throats.
A government-based decision either way is shoving some answer down someone's throat. The best course of action is to get government out of the answer altogether and let people decide. That means, however, getting government all the way out of the answer, including not forcing people who make one decision pay for the actions of people who decide the other way.
Calling a 4-week old fetus a "baby" is kind of like calling a 4-month old boy a "man". Not really right, not really wrong... but that doesn't really matter anyway, it's not what the debate is about.
What matters is legal personhood. At what point in life does a person begin to have specific rights, and at what point does a person gain legal recognition as a party of civil and criminal actions? That's what it's about... not whether people call the human a "baby".
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
never performed an abortion on myself, not on anyone else.
...and we all know that you are completely innocent and get let go scot-free when you pay someone else to murder someone.
Hope is not "a belief that the world has potential energy that can be converted into kinetic energy." That is ridiculous. The belief you stated is just a principle of physics. There is nothing about enlightenment that would contradict knowledge of and application of physics.
You have "refuted" the argument by changing its premises. That isn't a refutation.
Enlightenment is a state of inner peace that takes place in a context of a correct understanding of reality. The "correct understanding of reality" part is fully dependent on a correct understanding of physics. You would like that bit.
The "inner peace" bit involves a distinct absence of emotional perturbation. The idea is to calm the emotions by attaining an objective perspective on reality. Filling your perspective up with imagined ideas about potential futures tends to increase emotional turbulence, rather than decrease it. The joy that can come from positive hope is, on the one hand, fleeting and can lead to greater depression, and on the other hand, entirely based on indulgence in desire.
This does not mean that you never experience joy, nor that you never try to make the world better, or anything absurd like that. It means that you don't make this emotional-and-fantasy-based thought pattern a primary source of joy, nor even your primary cognitive mode.
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Question: What kind of visa does the U.S. government require for a decapitated head? Maybe an "H1-B" for laboratory staff?
I thought medical flights (forgot the name of the agency) can ship organs and body parts around the world without going through DHL or federal express.
Let it go.
A frozen dinner for the future zombie apocalypse. I hope they included defrosting directions.
Cancer or being just a frozen brain. In a dozen years they could have cured her cancer but putting her brain from a box back into a body is not going to happen any time soon.
Embryos are frozen all the time
A lot of repetitive calculations are much easier on a computer if you use base PI for the math. Convert in, calculate a shitload of data that gets converted back on its way out. :)
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
I hear Corpsicles taste Great!!
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Personhood begins when we decide when it does. Is it arbitrary? Sure, but so is the concept of personhood.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
May well destroy every cell, that doesn't necessarily mean you can't work out what sort of cell it was. Is enough information left to reprogram a stem cell to do the same job? Or assemble one from atoms (the way god intended) if you can wait long enough.
If the brain tissues still have the same interconnections and evidence of connection strengths, what's to stop a suitably mature biotech from reassembling you one cell at a time? There don't have to be any revivable cells left to have a revivable organism. All they have to do is embody the same pattern.
Aren't our cells constantly replaced anyway? Doing them all at once can't be some much more difficult (than the job nature already does).
The problem is, that the Blue State abortion fanatics refuse to establish even a baseline, because they know that once that line is drawn in the sand, it can be argued for movement.
Every single state in the country has established a baseline. None of them allow aborting while in labor when the mother's life isn't in danger. Almost none allow it when close to labor. So-called abortion "fanatics" show themselves to be the exact opposite of fanatics, in that they're happy to draw and re-draw and debate the line and acknowledge that it's a matter of degree rather than a black and white date.
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Considering personhood is a legal concept, it's no more arbitrary than deciding when speech is free or not, when taxes are just or not, when marriage is allowed or not... it depends on whether the law in general has your respect.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
False dichotomy. Uncontrollable situations such as miscarriages are not the same as willful neglect.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
A 2 year old is not a sufficiently permanent collection of memories to consider even trying to preserve them. How much do you remember from before the age of 3 or 4? If you could recover what is left of this damaged brains's memories they would be mostly gone by the time the new entity reach adulthood anyway.
It would have made more sense to clone the child right now, if it was legally permitted, because after two year you would have pretty much the same child back as they would have the same genes and you would be bringing them up in the same environment.
It bothers me that some people seem to be starting to worship the potential of science without having the thinking skills to actually understand the subject.
One of the TED talks was covering this subject - it was really a kind of eye opener for me
https://www.ted.com/talks/step...
Presenter argues that there are 4 basic stories about immortality, which get repeated across the ages, with slightly different color, but same underlying idea - and realizing that helps to put some distance into believing latest 'science magic'
1) Elixir - immortality of the body (Philospher Stone, Fountain of Youth, hormone teraphy, gene telomere therapy etc)
2) Ressurection - getting raised from dead (bible Apocalypse raise-from-dead at end of times if you are buried properly, being ressurected from cryogenic sleep by future scientists if frozen properly)
3) Soul - preserving mind/person even if body is gone (most religions afterlife/reincarnation, mind upload)
4) Legacy - preserving your ideas and/or genetics (having children, rising/teaching children, creating works of art, science discoveries, blowing yourself up to good of your village/country/religion etc)
In this case, parents just wanted to believe their 'scientific' version of ressurection fairy story. It is just more expensive and slightly more gruesome than lot more common rite of putting body into ground with priest chanting over it, so it can get ressurected by allmighty God at end of time. As long as child was properly circumcised in time. Or baptized. Or hasn't killed any puppy. Or was frozen to exactly proper temperature with right mix of chemicals.
The IVF industry routinely cryogenically freezes embryos and then re-animates them.
So depending on your definition of "person", this two-year-old could be considered to be a long way from being the youngest person ever to be frozen.
The existence and success of IVF from frozen actually goes a long way toward refuting some of the anti-cryogenics rhetoric posted here -- it does work, and it does have real-world application, and there is real and valid research being done around it.
I do agree with other posts that the odds of bringing back this particular individual are virtually zero, so it can't be considered a worthwhile exercise in that respect, but please don't dismiss the entire industry just because there are some folk using it to sell snake oil.
And? The universe has no "concept" of morals or ethics. These are biological constructs that modify the behavior of animals (including humans) depending on circumstances. If the environment changes drastically, so do the morals and ethics - the "norms".
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
So, with the world already facing problems with overpopulation, a problem which is only going to grow, why on earth would anyone at a future date decide to go to the trouble and expense to bring back someone from a long time before, who aready lived their lives and died, who will not fit in, who will have nothing to offer to future society? Unless the corpse belongs to some genius, one fine day they will be declared dead and all those brains and bodies just incinerated.
put their faith in cryogenics instead of religion, it would make some real progress. You are dead either way, why care if people freeze themselves?
In Arizona, they'll consider her an illegal immigrant.
Um, you failed to actually answer the question I actually asked.
While you are 100% accurate about when "personhood" begins (being Philosophical), we do know that premature babies as young as 24 weeks of gestation have been born, and survived. Would you at least say that was at least one likely boundry of "personhood"?
This is not arbitrary boundary, it is one established by survivability outside the womb.
None of them allow aborting while in labor when the mother's life isn't in danger. Almost none allow it when close to labor.
"Almost" doesn't mean what you think it means. "Almost None" means some. Some isn't none. Lets rephrase your statement in the positive shall we?
None of them allow aborting while in labor when the mother's life isn't in danger. Some even allow it when close to labor.
How you phrase things to minimize the effect doesn't actually negate it at all, which is kind of what you were aiming for. I happen to be able to phrase the exact same meaning in a sentence (Almost None=Some) that conveys a completely different connotation. Since both terms are equally nebulous they are equal in meaning.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
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you are all such idiots...well, most of you anyway. When I am revived from the dewar hundreds of years from now, I will use the AI computers of that day to find each of your identities and grave, and I will piss on your grave. --a cryonicist
Miscarriages CAN be caused by controllable circumstances. Are we going to investigate every single one to figure out if it was neglect or uncontrollable?
With 307 posts, I don't think anyone bothered mentioning...
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I know the people involved. Been signed up myself since 1985.
End MGM. Get prospective parents of boys to Google: Men do complain