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Chinese Scientists Claim To Have Genetically Modified Human Embryos
Annanag writes: There were rumours — but now it's been confirmed. Chinese scientists have attempted the ethically questionable feat of genetically modifying human embryos. The scientists try to head off ethical concerns by using 'non-viable' embryos, which cannot result in a live birth, obtained from local fertility clinics. The study is a landmark — but also a cautionary tale.
Why is this a cautionary tale? What horrific outcome did they have that we are supposed to learn from?
...when I say, "holy fuckolies".
I'll take two Cosimas with a side of crazy .... errhhhh..... Helena to go. No fries!
Here we come!
It's a clump of cells. It can't in any way be described as a human being. It has the potential to become a human being, but you could say the same thing about sperm and eggs. A lot of the debate seems to centre around whether an embryo has a soul or not. It doesn't. Neither does a fully grown human.
It's good to see the Chinese advancing human knowledge since we in the west are too scared to do anything in case somebody dies or somebody is offended. I'm 100% certain the first man on Mars will be a Chinaman. In the west we'd first have to conduct a study to determine the proper makeup of the crew in terms of gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, disability, etc. The project would then focus far too much on safety leading to it going tens of billions over budget and decades late. Meanwhile the Chinese will be focusing on getting things done.
you know, gene wars.
We've been hindered by what is basically a cult ideology about unborn life that we cannot do experiments like this (legally) in the west. Now China, India and countries that do not have these religious groups hindering progress are making advances in all sorts of science. It is legal to experiment on creatures that are 98% similar to us, the embryos are practically indistinguishable from ours.
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Now we gotta compete with 1 billion people having IQ's of 300 and people skills.
Table-ized A.I.
Industrial revolution, information revolution, biological revolution.
Yes we can make our own sub-species of Nietzschean. Man won't that be great!
Evolution got us this far, but to go further we will have to take it into our hands. We need to become smarter, live longer, and be more rational. It will take forever and a day to get there natural way. By then all resources will be gone and we will forever be stuck on this rock.
While we've been busy distracting ourselves with purely ideological debate that can neither demonstrate a definitive start nor end of human life, the Chinese have been busy figuring out how to make that life "better" (for various definitions of better). I've yet to hear a single argument that can define life beginning at conception, whose logic can also be applied to define the end of life.
Nothing evolves faster than the word of god in the minds of men who think themselves divinely inspired.
Good for them! I'm excited to see what new knowledge this will bring everyone!
A brave new world indeed.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I'm all for it. In nearly every advancement of technology mistakes were made, people were hurt and there were always failures. Are we going to stop advancing because of that?
I see some people mentioning the possibility of copywriting human genes. Initially I laughed at how absurd that would be, but given the current state of copywrite/trademark/parent laws, I could see it happening.
I wonder how it would be enforced. I can certainly imagine some horrific outcomes (You contain our property! )
Indeed why should it be ethically questionable to experiment on embryos but not on chimps, dolphins, pigs, and other species that can show clear signs of pain? If there's something morally wrong about this, then we might as well give human/animal rights to all species that can cry, squeal, or kick you in the face when poked.
Why is this a cautionary tale? What horrific outcome did they have that we are supposed to learn from?
1. They attempted to splice a single gene (HBB) responsible for a genetic disease (-thalassaemia) using the state-of-the-art enzyme technique (CRISPR/Cas9) on a single cell human embryo .
2. Not only did the splicing technique not work very often (28 / 86 embryos), but it also created lots of off-target mutations in other parts of the DNA. Both of these results were not expected.
3. ???
4. Caution: Apparently state-of-the-art techniques genetic splicing techniques used for adult cell genetic therapies and animal embryos experiments might not work well on actual single-cell human embryos extracted using common techniques used by fertility clinics.
I wouldn't say it was an horrific outcome, but an unexpectedly poor outcome which is cautionary for those that might think that it is within the state of the art to do this for a specific couple to eliminate a genetic disease and actually get a live birth without significant risk of collateral genetic damage (not to mention lots of embryos would likely need to collected to ensure success). Mostly cautionary to potential parents that might be seduced by a zealous doctor/researcher.
I moved on from believing in "fedoras" but apparently they're quite real and posting on Slashdot.
There's a better example in history.
Whenever a race or people feel themselves superior, they take action to try to ensure that becomes a reality. You cant engineer out the human ego.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I hope they have added the gene that would allow chinese people to read and understand a map. No ofense: I live in China and like China, but these people just can't get along with maps.
I give it a year, maybe two, before we read about this in Retraction Watch
Most of the "what's wrong with this?" responses are one reason why you are either, single, divorced or about to be divorced.
I use Debian you insensitive clod!
River Tam!
Heap all the criticism on the science that you want. Ethical or otherwise genetic manipulation WILL become a reality soon. The first nation to perfect and implement it will command a large advantage over the rest of the world.
Those without the "gift" won't be able to keep up much less compete. The only lesson to be learned here is this:
Playing by ethical rules will only put you at a disadvantage. Either get over the fear of the unknown, or fade away into obsolescence within a generation or two.
Huxley's world is great:
1) Sad? Take a pill and be happy again
2) Everyone's happy with their lot in life
3) Have sex with anyone you want
4) Along with #4, no worries about unwanted pregnancies
I don't see the problem.
5. Be brain damaged from birth and programmed to clean my house, you filthy Epsilon.
Stupid people tend to have a lot more kids than smart people. Citation: Idiocracy
If the smart people let the stupid people out-breed them into extinction, are they actually the smart ones?
We haven't even established the "ethically questionable" part
It's done by China, that's already ethically questionable enough for a lot of Americans
Almost all the people from the Western country question anything and everything coming out of China
They never question the moslems
They never question the Indians
They never question anyone but whenever the Chinese dare to do anything automatically it triggers mass hysteria amongst the Westerners
Better prepare to get down from yer high horse, son
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2...
The above happened in the Western countries, not China
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
GMBro?
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
Now we gotta compete with 1 billion people having IQ's of 300 and people skills.
We're dealing with the growth of AI that is smarter than us and the development of humans who are smarter than us. The first country that gets them and deploys them intelligently wins. It will be like adults playing with kids.
It's Lord of the Flies, and we're in the last chapter.
Being stuck on any planet is a bad idea. Down at the bottom of a gravity well. We need to engineer ourselves to better tolerate space conditions and live in orbital habitats. And by the time we're engineered in such a way, we'd probably be better described as "hardware".
I mean, tolerance of cold temperatures, high radiation, vacuum, lack of oxygen, gravity, liquid water.... Everything you'd need to be at home in space. And then you're hardware. And interchangeable parts would be cool. If your eye offends you, you pluck it out. (And put in a new one.)
--PM
I don't think that paying the costs and maintenance of an epsilon would be a better deal than whatever Roomba will be out by then. Huxely may have been imaginative, but he really overlooked the the future impact of automation. Every year, the need for a human underclass is shrinking. In many ways this is good, but in some ways it sucks, especially for the members of the unneeded underclass.
While I'm sure you can find some zealots who believe this way, the majority of people have a different perspective. There is a reason we wish to have the ethical discussions and rules laid out (which technically exist, but China ignored them). Here is a short (not complete) list of ethical concerns. The numbers don't indicate a priority, just separating them clearly.
1. If you can manipulate genes to make someone unhealthy "healthy", you also have the ability to go the opposite direction. How can we ensure that does not happen?
2. How do you prevent cookie cutter humans and have individuals vs. a template human worker bee who people in power want?
3. How do we prevent manipulations which would generate hybrids?
4. How do you price these procedures so that all levels of society have the same options? If it's only in the hands of the rich and powerful it will not benefit society, it will only benefit those people who are rich and powerful.
5. How do you audit what other people are doing with genetic manipulation?
6. How do you punish those that break the ethical Law? Who has jurisdiction? What are the penalties?
The strong insinuation that the only people questioning ethics are Luddites is extremely offensive and disingenuous. There are a good number of people who study history and remember the last time some guy wanted perfect humans. They want some regulation to ensure that a situation similar, or worse, situation does not occur again. Or at least have the framework attempting to prevent it.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Liberals will defend this.
That sounds pneumatic!
...Serf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakon_(novel)
The genesis of species homo servus
Thank fuck for that. When can we start engineering mean IQs of 150 into embryos as standard practice?
Fuck you, communist shill.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
The roar of the Western world is indeed very frightening!
I'm thinking that in Huxley's world, science focused more on genetic science and less on robot science, hence, the breakthroughs in human tech and not so much robot tech. It's been over a decade since I read the book in question though, so maybe I'm forgetting something.
you forgot the best part:
5) mosquitoes and flies erradicated.
21. century: when "they lived happily ever after" is a distopyia.
Real life is overrated.
Oh wait that is impossible and against the laws of God and nature - guess its uunk chinese science again.
Downmodded by religious zealots; I knew it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Prisoners, including one known POW,[17] were subjected to vivisection without anesthesia.[18] Vivisections were performed on prisoners after infecting them with various diseases. Researchers performed invasive surgery on prisoners, removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body. These were conducted while the patients were alive because it was feared that the decomposition process would affect the results.[19] The infected and vivisected prisoners included men, women, children, and infants
Not restricted to Asians, either: "Instead of being tried for war crimes, the researchers involved in Unit 731 were given immunity in exchange for their data on human experimentation. Some were arrested by Soviet forces and tried at the Khabarovsk War Crime Trials in 1949. Americans did not try the researchers so that the information and experience gained in bio-weapons could be co-opted into the U.S. biological warfare program"
"china is running out of females of child bearing age" due to the availability of choosing the gender of your (one) child and families overwhelmingly choosing boys (this is a problem today, even, without the genetic manipulation.. abortions, abandonment, or worse, are not uncommon when a baby is a girl)
Genetic castes of humans more suitable for various jobs. A moron class did the tedious chores. In addition there drugs like soma to dull the boredom. Our society has lots of those too.
They were simply trying to modify the Chinese genes to allow the proper English pronunciation of 'R' and 'L'.