Russian Official Calls For "International Investigation" of the Apollo Program

MarkWhittington writes: According to a Tuesday article in the Moscow Times, a spokesman for Russia's Investigative Committee named Vladimir Markin suggested that an international investigation be mounted into some of the "various murky details surrounding the U.S. moon landings between 1969 and 1972." Markin would particularly like to know where some of the missing moon rocks went to and why the original footage of the Apollo 11 moon landing was erased. Markin hastened to add that he is, of course, not suggesting that NASA faked the moon landings and just filmed the events in a studio.

Comments

Of course not.

[CrimsonAvenger]

Markin hastened to add that he is, of course, not suggesting that NASA faked the moon landings and just filmed the events in a studio.

Of course he's not suggesting that. He's suggesting that Putin wants another sideshow and is desperate enough to think this'll do it....

Re:Of course not.

[AK Marc]

Where were you Tuesday the 10th of Jan, 2009? I'm not saying you beat your wife, but if you can't prove you weren't beating your wife on that date...

Re:Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

The 10th of Jan, 2009 was a Saturday and I do not have a wife.

Re: Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you beat her to death!

Re: Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Objection. Leading the witness.

Re:Of course not.

[Jane Q. Public]

Of course he's not suggesting that.

Here's what's completely ridiculous about the whole "fake Moon landing" thing:

In 1969, "special effects" that were convincing enough to have faked the whole thing would probably have cost more than 2 whole trips to the moon.

Besides... the site has been photographed from orbit repeatedly since.

Re:Of course not.

[Jane Q. Public]

... And here's one of those photographs.

And here is more corroboration.

Re:Of course not.

[The Grim Reefer]

In 1969, "special effects" that were convincing enough to have faked the whole thing would probably have cost more than 2 whole trips to the moon.

I guess you haven't taken a look at those images lately, the "special effects" have not aged well. This site is truly revealing But you be the judge. ;-)

Re:Of course not.

[Immerman]

Obviously those are fakes. You can tell by the fact that they show a lander on the moon. :-D

Re:Of course not.

[Jason Levine]

Exactly. I did an IMDB search and found a Sci Fi movie from 1969 - Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun. Take a look at some of the effects. They were probably state of the art then and must have looked amazing, but they look extremely fake nowadays. Even if NASA had gotten the best and brightest of Hollywood on the "moon landing production", I doubt that 1) they could have pulled it off with so much realism, 2) they could have all kept the secret for so long, and 3) they wouldn't have used their knowledge from faking the moon landing to make more realistic movie special effects.

Re:Of course not.

[ShaunC]

Not only that, but at the time of the Moon landing, the Russians themselves were rather heavily involved in that arena. Had the landing been faked, Russia absolutely would have known; they would have distributed the proof far and wide to humiliate and one-up the Americans. It's just a tad late for a Russian to start asking questions.

Re: Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Overruled.

Re:Of course not.

[Jane Q. Public]

ad the landing been faked, Russia absolutely would have known; they would have distributed the proof far and wide to humiliate and one-up the Americans.

That's a very good point. While we don't have objective evidence, I think it's more than reasonable to expect they would have done exactly that.

Re: Of course not.

[binarylarry]

All this is proves is that the US later planted those on the moon to cover up the original fake moon landing.

Now where's that nice vodka Mr Putin sent me.

Re:Of course not.

[dunkindave]

Obviously those are fakes. You can tell by the fact that they show a lander on the moon. :-D

Sadly, that is how a conspiracy theorist actually thinks. In this case, NASA publishing photos from a probe orbiting the moon to prove NASA went to the moon 40 years ago will be labeled as the complicit organization just putting out more lies. These people will only believe something when it is put directly in front of them (sometimes not even then), and since they can't go to the moon to see these artifacts for themselves, you can't prove it to them, and any second-party proof you present will be dismissed as fake or lies. It is one of the tenets of how they make claims that within their requirements for "proof", the claim becomes non-falsifiable.

Re:Of course not.

[gstoddart]

Here's what's completely ridiculous about the whole "fake Moon landing" thing:

Well, if you understand the physics of the Lunar Laser Ranging stuff, then it is pretty much irrefutable humans were on the moon.

Because to have a calibrated retroreflector, in a known spot on the surface of the moon, and with a measurable round trip time for a laser, with which you can measure the distance to the moon (because you know the speed of light) is not something you can fake ... that is, unless you have a calibrated retroreflector in a known spot on the surface of the moon.

To hell with special effects. Let's just go with physics. You can point a laser at a known spot on the moon and have that laser come back to you.

There is no faking that.

Re: Of course not.

[the_Bionic_lemming]

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!

        Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Re:Of course not.

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Not only that, but at the time of the Moon landing, the Russians themselves were rather heavily involved in that arena. Had the landing been faked, Russia absolutely would have known; they would have distributed the proof far and wide to humiliate and one-up the Americans. It's just a tad late for a Russian to start asking questions.

That and Parkes (I have a relative who worked there at the time, he didn't work for NASA). And Fresnedillas.. Oh, and the Japanese.

Why is it that the same people who claim the Moon mission was a fake, happily believe the Moon is now a secret military base, the world is ruled by shape shifting lizard aliens, all technology was reverse engineered from crashed alien space craft, and that 9/11 was an inside demolition job kept totally secret (and that no one outside the Manhattan project knew the US was working on nuclear weapons). Is it the fluoride in the water, gang-stalking mind-control rays, or just the high altitude chem sprays?

Re: Of course not.

[davester666]

He loves football, but has really tender feet. That's why he lives on Endor.

Re: Of course not.

[IMightB]

I want to know why Putin fucks goats and why all evidence has been erased. So many shirtless Putin shots have been doctered!

Re:Of course not.

[dave420]

To play devil's advocate, that retroreflector could have been placed there remotely - its existence doesn't necessarily imply that people put it there.

I don't believe the conspiracy nonsense - as Mitchell and Webb demonstrated, the only difference in cost between faking the moon landings and actually performing them would be the catering costs for the astronauts :)

Re:Of course not.

[Coisiche]

They were also trying to get a fetch-and-return lunar soil sample mission completed before Apollo 11 so that they could claim a small victory over the USA. It failed though. It was another year before they got a successful one.

The most telling statistic with the lunar rocks though is that 3 USSR robotic fetch-and-return missions amassed a total of some 300 grammes. In comparison the 6 Apollo missions amassed some 300 kilogrammes.

Re: Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Its ridiculous to claim Putin has been cavorting with goats all along!

It only happened once, her name was Jenny, and to be fair she seemed very appealing at the time, well, for a goat anyway... Putin has remained faithfully single ever since he discovered Jenny was made into a gala dinner at the Kremlin.

And don't laugh, it's a sad story.

Re: Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if you don't believe the primary evidence, this is very compelling secondary evidence. The Soviets were locked in the space race with the U.S. and would have done anything to embarrass the U.S. The fact that they did not do that suggests that it actually happened.

Re:Of course not.

[AmiMoJo]

In this case other countries with no reason to lie for the US have observed the landing sites too. Both China and Russia have photographed them from orbit.

Even back at the time the landings were taking place other countries were able to verify them by simply listening in on radio communications from the moon. They would have realized pretty quickly if the signals were not coming from the moon, so at the very least NASA would have had to somehow get some unmanned transmitters up there.

Re:Of course not.

[MozeeToby]

See, but by then the Russians were already running out of funds and knew their moonshot wasn't going to work. The "landing" on the moon gave them an easy excuse to walk away. /s

Re:Of course not.

[michelcolman]

In this case other countries with no reason to lie for the US have observed the landing sites too. Both China and Russia have photographed them from orbit.

No, they were just trying to fake their flights around the moon. "See, we really sent a probe around the moon, here's the proof, we've photographed the Apollo landing site!". In reality they just photoshopped a lander and craters on some sandpaper.

Re: Of course not.

[michelcolman]

Nah, they just rolled out a big flat poster on the supposed lander site. Can't tell the difference from orbit.

Re:Of course not.

[khallow]

How do you keep people from eavesdropping on your initial signal from Earth? If people keep hearing the strong signal from Earth a couple seconds before it returns from the Moon, then the gig is up.

Re:Of course not.

[Coren22]

They encrypted the sent signal...duh! /sarcasm

Re:Of course not.

[Nidi62]

Of course he's not suggesting that.

Here's what's completely ridiculous about the whole "fake Moon landing" thing: In 1969, "special effects" that were convincing enough to have faked the whole thing would probably have cost more than 2 whole trips to the moon. Besides... the site has been photographed from orbit repeatedly since.

I thought the standard conspiracy response was that while the first landing was faked we did go to the moon in later missions and that they put the lander there then.

Re:Of course not.

[khallow]

Of course! ROT13! I should have thought of that.

Re: Of course not.

[serviscope_minor]

I want to know why Putin fucks goats and why all evidence has been erased

Because they were MALE goats and we all know Putin's stance on all things gay.

Re:Of course not.

[serviscope_minor]

Why is it that the same people who claim the Moon mission was a fake, happily believe the Moon is now a secret military base, the world is ruled by shape shifting lizard aliens

Have you seen a film from 1969? How on earth could NASA have faked the moon landings without SFX assistance from the much more advanced space-lizards. And besides, leaking it so that the fakery is an open secret is a great way of hiding that they actually went there to install a secret base.

Duh.

It's like you're not even trying.

Is it the fluoride in the water, gang-stalking mind-control rays, or just the high altitude chem sprays?

Well tell me then Mr Sheeple, what precisely are these chemical spraying tanks doing in a 787 then if it's not chemtrails?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

I personally can't think of any reason one might want to test a plane with some sort of controlable dummy ballast and it fits the chemtrails conspiracy rather well.

Re: Of course not.

[camperdave]

Either that or ewoks are tasty.

Re:Of course not.

[segedunum]

Not if they themselves also had something to hide. It's a murky game these countries play.

Re:Of course not.

[segedunum]

Well, if you understand the physics of the Lunar Laser Ranging stuff, then it is pretty much irrefutable humans were on the moon.

If you actually know how they work then it isn't. Several attempts are sometimes required to actually find the damn things in the first place and it can even be the surface of the moon reflecting the light back. Heck, there is even a massive discrepancy on the agreed coordinates of the landers and sites themselves.

The trouble is people have got themselves into this mindset of there being 'irrefutable proof', but when you look at it and how it actually works it is anything but.

Re:Of course not.

[segedunum]

I hope you have costings for that.

Besides... the site has been photographed from orbit repeatedly since.

Nope, they haven't been photographed at all any detail at all. You would think NASA and people would be interested in having a look at how all the equipment on the moon is faring, and even find out where the actual coordinates of the damn things are, as opposed to looking at indistinct dots. But there you go. Maybe they just aren't bothered.

Re:Of course not.

[phantomfive]

I know it's a joke, but here's one thing it says,

Secondly, the interior of the shopping basket can clearly be seen when all areas in shadow should be pitch black due to the absence of air molecules.

Is that true about shadows?

Re: Of course not.

[ncc74656]

I want to know why Putin fucks goats and why all evidence has been erased

Because they were MALE goats and we all know Putin's stance on all things gay.

Wide?

Re:Of course not.

[camperdave]

How do we know that what is retro-reflecting isn't a natural phenomenon that has been there all along? Do you have proof that there was no reflective surfaces on the moon PRIOR to the supposed lunar landings? If not, retro-reflection does not prove a Moon landing.

Re:Of course not.

[NapoleonTheGreat]

No, the Americans asked the Israelis to dig all the crap they can find on the Soviets. They found so much that the Soviets backed down.

Re:Of course not.

[amicusNYCL]

If there is no source of light to illuminate something, then it will be completely black. The reason why we can see objects inside a shadow on Earth is because the air in the atmosphere reflects light in every direction. You can notice that at home also. If you turn all of the lights off in your house at night then it will be black. If you turn one on then you'll notice that you are able to see places that do not have a line of sight to the light. That's because the air in the room (or other walls or surfaces) are reflecting the light. On the moon, surfaces like the ground might reflect light, but there's no air to do it.

Re:Of course not.

[tyen]

I remember as a very young kid in the 70's hearing about the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment and wondering how they managed to aim and point the laser correctly and get it to return properly and all that. It still blows my mind today when I understand much more than I did back then, when I delve into even a cursory overview of the techniques the ongoing experiment uses to aim, point, and collect the photons to generate the experimental results.

Re: Of course not.

[Rakarra]

I think he just likes playing Godzilla. He's a Wookiee bully.

Re: Of course not.

[Immerman]

Hmm, how about the fact that I and my friends personally remember many of the events happening at the time?

Oh no!!! I just realized my own memory must be in on the conspiracy! This is so much worse than I ever imagined! Or is it? Maybe this isn't the first time I've realized this - if my memory is in on it then it could simply refuse to recall any previous realizations... Thanks a lot, I can't trust anything now!

Wait, what was I talking about? Oh well, can't have been too important. If you'll excuse me I'm off to watch funny cat videos. Those things won't laugh at themselves after all.

Re:Of course not.

[toddestan]

I'd take a look at the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey released the year before. The special effects in that movie blow away Journey To The Far Side Of The Sun and hold up quite well today.

Re: Of course not.

[Tablizer]

[Sig] Recession: Your neighbor's out of a job. Depression: You're out of a job. Recovery: 0bama's out of a job.

O saved our caboose from a Hoover-like 25% unemployment rate. The extent of the financial side of the crash was similar to 1929's. The gop's alt plan was rather Hoover-like and would probably have relived history instead of learned from it if given a chance.

Re:Of course not.

[jwhitener]

What if the reflector is just a really shiny rock!? ;)

Re: Of course not.

[ncc74656]

You're joking, right? Real unemployment (not the bullshit numbers flogged by the regime) is probably on the other side of 20% when you take into account everybody who's quit looking in this shitty economy.

The reason is the US FIFA investigation

[Anonymous Coward]

There, saved you reading the article.

Re:The reason is the US FIFA investigation

[Raseri]

Surely you're not suggesting anyone here was going to read the article.

Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[istartedi]

Will Buzz Aldrin please pick up the white courtesy phone? We have need of your your services.

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[jfdavis668]

We'll have to sic Stannis Barratheon on you for the "whom" signature.

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[ClickOnThis]

The grammar of that sig deserves a visit from Ser Ilyn Payne.

http://grammarist.com/eggcorns...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[Jane Q. Public]

For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?

Indeed, it is obvious that someone does not care about language. Whom shall we say it is?

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[AmiMoJo]

Whoosh!

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[LWATCDR]

Buzz Aldrin... You sir are a bad ass.
Went to the moon.
Punched an idiot for saying that we did not go to the moon.
Armstrong was also a class act but you got to love Buzz Aldrin.
Next you need to punch Adam Curry over and over again for claim that Armstrong lied about the moon landing right after he passed away.

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[jfdavis668]

Good catch

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[lgw]

Yeah, everyone on knows it's "for all in tents, and porpoises"!

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[Grey Geezer]

And the incorrect use of "intensive" in the quote...unless I'm missing some intended humor there? If so I apologize...

Re:Buzz Aldrin, paging Buzz Aldrin

[serviscope_minor]

Indeed, it is obvious that someone does not care about language. Whom shall we say it is?

Im of the opinion that only the grammer Nazi's care. Irregardless of that who gets "whom" right anyway?

It's just grumbling about US investigations

[ClickOnThis]

From T first FA:

Venting his frustration with what he viewed as "U.S. prosecutors having declared themselves the supreme arbiters of international football affairs," Markin proposed that international investigators could likewise examine some of the murkier elements of America's past.

Re:It's just grumbling about US investigations

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

It is sort of amazing that the US managed to get involved in FIFA. You'd think that a secretive organization based in Switzerland, of all places, could handle a little slush money without passing through US jurisdiction.

Seems like sloppy work, to me.

Re:It's just grumbling about US investigations

[LWATCDR]

" Criminals should switch to Euros to avoid being pursued by the US outside its borders."
So besides Russia and Qatar is anyone upset with the US going after FIFA?

Re:It's just grumbling about US investigations

[camperdave]

As the US would say: Justice has no borders - as demonstrated by the movie Smokey and The Bandit.

Putin Vs. Donald Trump

[retroworks]

It's a sideshow war

Re:Putin Vs. Donald Trump

[msauve]

The hair Putin doesn't have is better than the hair Trump does. But, overall a fair comparison - they're both overcompensating, megalomaniacal sociopaths.

Re:Putin Vs. Donald Trump

[ClickOnThis]

The hair Putin doesn't have is better than the hair Trump does. But, overall a fair comparison - they're both overcompensating, megalomaniacal sociopaths.

But one of them has nukes.

Re:Putin Vs. Donald Trump

[msauve]

...and the other has blackjack and hookers.

Re:Putin Vs. Donald Trump

[gstoddart]

I'm pretty sure Putin has nukes, blackjack, and hookers.

Re:Putin Vs. Donald Trump

[Areyoukiddingme]

I'm pretty sure Putin has nukes, blackjack, and hookers.

Yes, there was an extended discussion about Jenny further up in the comments.

Don't give too much credit to what he says

[ScudBee]

He is just a moron. A Putin's moron to be exact.

Space Race

[CrystalShepard]

Maybe if they believe we've never been there they'll restart the Space Race in an effort to get there first.

Re:Space Race

[SeaFox]

Mod: +1, Hopefully.

Apollo 18

[Irate Engineer]

Here's why various moon rocks have gone missing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RGhKzUUaME

Re:Apollo 18

[dcollins117]

When I was in middle school we had a guy from NASA give a talk about the moon landings and he passed moon rocks around the classroom. This was early seventies and it kinda blew my mind that I could actually hold one of them. Made quite an impression. Anyway, I gave it back but I wouldn't put be surprised if that guy put one in his pocket as a "souvenir".

Re:Apollo 18

[Anonymous Coward]

Passing around bits of pumice to gullible school kids seems like a real mean trick.

Re:Apollo 18

[KGIII]

It was a long time ago so my memory is fuzzy but I think we actually had one at my school. I seem to recall that they took the rock back and gave us a tree. I was in high school as I recall. This would have been... 1970ish to 1974ish... I had discovered the joys of marijuana and attending a school where that was not expected so not searched for or the likes. Point is, my memory is very fuzzy but I could have sworn we had one. It was in the Astronomy section. My school had (still does) an observatory.

The tapes were re-used

[whitelabrat]

A while back there was a huge hunt to find the original tapes used to record the lunar landing. It is suspected that the tape was re-used due to NASA's tight budget and they couldn't afford more tape. The tape was very expensive at the time so it was common to just re-use what they could find. The Apollo mission was done, so why would they need to keep the tape around. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time.

That or it's stashed under someone's coffee table and forgotten about.

Re:The tapes were re-used

[Burdell]

Being in somebody's attic is not impossible; they could have been mislabelled and targeted to be thrown out and somebody just kept them (possibly without knowing what they've got). I've got a Skylab Operations Handbook for the Apollo Telescope Mount sitting on my desk, and I know my father had reel-to-reel tapes of the audio from the lunar lander missions on the shelf at one point (both were being thrown away).

Stuff also gets actually thrown out eventually. I've seen many boxes of punch cards from NASA going to recycling.

Re:The tapes were re-used

[Jason Levine]

Exactly this. It's the same reason why there are missing episodes of Doctor Who and other early television shows. Yes, it was the first moon landing, but tape was expensive and people didn't think about saving this stuff as much. After all, if we had gone by aspirations from the 1960's, we'd have had a moon base by now with permanent residents. Going to the moon might have been akin to going on vacation to a far off foreign country - a special trip you take once or twice if you can afford it. Not something for the masses, but not quite "rich people only" either.

*remembers that there hasn't been a moon landing in my lifetime*

*gets very sad*

Re:The tapes were re-used

[imidan]

It is suspected that the tape was re-used due to NASA's tight budget and they couldn't afford more tape.

Not just budget concerns. There was also a big problem in the 80s when commercial whaling was outlawed. The tape that NASA had used to record a lot of data involved whale oil in its production somehow. When whaling went out, whale oil went away, and companies that made data tape scrambled to replace it with something. They came up with synthetic alternatives, but because they didn't have much time to test, they discovered after it was already in use that the new stuff basically turned into glue after sitting on a shelf too long, which ruined tapes. So the old whale oil tapes became valuable for re-use, since you could depend on them not gluing together and losing all of your data. So that's another reason why NASA taped over a lot of irreplaceable data.

At a conference last year, I spoke with a NASA guy who was working on recovering a lot of old lunar data. He told me about the whale oil angle. He also said their best find at that point had been a whole palette/palettes of the whale oil tapes that had been sent from one NASA group to another to be copied over, but had been misplaced in a warehouse during transit, and just sat there ever since.

Re:The tapes were re-used

[cjameshuff]

On top of this, these were tapes of mostly telemetry data, of which most of the interesting data had been copied for whatever it was needed for. That includes the video: it was slow-scan video which had already been converted to more useful forms for live broadcast...we could do a better conversion now if we had the data (especially for the first few minutes, where the scan converter was misconfigured), but they didn't think it was necessary, especially when we brought back reels of film from the Maurer DAC showing the astronauts working on the moon in far greater quality than any video equipment at the time could have managed, not to mention all the still photos, which were far more accessible at the time.

Re:The tapes were re-used

[Demonoid-Penguin]

A while back there was a huge hunt to find the original tapes used to record the lunar landing.

... and the last entry in the borrowers book was signed Alex Jones .

The truth is "out there", if you can't find it:-

• you're spelling it wrong (it's troof, not truth)
• that just proves the conspiracy (which includes most dictionaries).

I know for a fact - because Shirley McLaine told me (when she channeled Depack Chopra).

Re:The tapes were re-used

[Pfhorrest]

They should have just switched back from whale oil tapes to good old-fashioned Nibblonian dark matter tapes.

Re:The tapes were re-used

[Anonymous Coward]

"When whaling went out, whale oil went away, and companies that made data tape scrambled to replace it width something."

Obligatory: We're whalers on the Moon, we carry a harpoon. But there ain't no whales so we tell tall tales and sing our whaling tune.

Re:The tapes were re-used

[Talderas]

Didn't you hear? We're going to a moon of an asteroid now.

Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[Irate Engineer]

Fine, go ahead Russia, spend a chunk of your GDP and put some boots on the Moon and fact check the U.S.

Oh yeah, make sure to make some more nuclear missiles. That's not cheap either, but security!

But wait...weren't these exact activities what caused the USSR to bankrupt themselves back in the 90's? Just checking.

No hate Russia, but you need to rein in your rhetoric. You have been beaten by playing this hand before.

Re: Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[Anonymous Coward]

Russia is building 40 new ICBMs. http://www.cnbc.com/id/102761893

America is funny. Let's put the people in a panic with enemies (China, Russia, Iran, North Korea). Our military has bankrupted us!

Re:Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[Livius]

weren't these exact activities what caused the USSR to bankrupt themselves

Lots of activities contributed to that.

Including the irony of having 18 million people employed in planning the economy and being extremely bad at it.

Re:Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[bloodhawk]

China especially is a far closer friend than the US to Russia, history has shown the US is far more likely to be engaged in rat fucking given the past 30 years of meddling in politics in the region.

Re:Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[Coren22]

Meddling in politics like invading Georgia and Ukraine?

Re:Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[Coren22]

Um, US Total debt is the debt of everyone plus the government. Are you comparing that to all Russian citizen's personal debt too? The US government is $18T in debt, not $61T.

Re:Let Russia Bankrupt Themselves To Check

[Rakarra]

Rhetoric that you don't have to follow up on is very cheap.

The footage is with the lost Doctor Who episodes

[jfdavis668]

Find the lost Doctor Who episodes, and you will find your answer. Probably not, but I would be happy. I want to see the Marco Polo serial.

What is this crap?

[gstoddart]

So, some guy from a Russian Investigative Committee for ... what exactly? Snide innuendo and propaganda?

Does he have a mandate for something?

This is some idiot trying to throw around smoke about the fact that Russia is implicated in bribery with FIFA, and then somehow pulling the bullshit nugget out of his as to fling poo at the moon landings?

I wonder if Mr Vladimir Markin has stopped sodomizing young boys and embezzling resources from the state.

This article is such thinly veiled rhetoric and bullshit as to be deserving of a fucking award.

Vladimir Markin penned a column for the Izvestia newspaper arguing that U.S. authorities had crossed a line by launching a large-scale corruption probe targeting nine FIFA officials. The scandal surrounding the case prompted the June 2 resignation of longtime FIFA president Sepp Blatter, and sparked a heated debate about Russia's role as host of the 2018 World Cup.

Venting his frustration with what he viewed as "U.S. prosecutors having declared themselves the supreme arbiters of international football affairs," Markin proposed that international investigators could likewise examine some of the murkier elements of America's past.

An international investigation could help solve the mystery of the disappearance of film footage from the original moon landing in 1969, or explain where the nearly 400 kilograms of lunar rock reportedly obtained during several such missions between 1969 and 1972 have been spirited away to, Markin suggested.

In three paragraphs he bitches about what we really wants to complain about, tosses in a snide reference to Americans investigating corruption, and then insinuiates that maybe there are other pieces of history for which the Americans have also acted corrupt and dishonorably. There's not even a pretense of denying Russia was corrupt.

Then the next two paragraphs is more innuendo to throw the reader away from realizing that Russia is alleged to have benefited from corruption in FIFA

I sincerely hope journalism classes are doing a case study in propaganda, and logic students everywhere are being shown the bald-faced, lies, innuendo, and misdirection in this utter piece of crap.

Bra-fucking-oh, I hadn't realized the extent to which the press in Moscow was still so utterly a tool of government.

That's some exceptionally well done lies right there. Carefully crafted to look like a reasoned argument, when in fact it's specious misdirection and innuendo.

I certainly hope that Mr Vladimir Markin doesn't have too many children out of wedlock, that could get awfully expensive.

Re:What is this crap?

[H0p313ss]

I hadn't realized the extent to which the press in Moscow was still so utterly a tool of government.

Then you really haven't been paying attention.

Re:What is this crap?

[gstoddart]

Honestly, since the weekly threats to nuke us seem to have mostly ended ... yes.

Certainly not at the level of reading the drivel in their papers, for instance.

Re:What is this crap?

[Coren22]

Oh my god, it is APK's actual Slashdot account!

Re:What is this crap?

[Rakarra]

In three paragraphs he bitches about what we really wants to complain about, tosses in a snide reference to Americans investigating corruption, and then insinuiates that maybe there are other pieces of history for which the Americans have also acted corrupt and dishonorably. There's not even a pretense of denying Russia was corrupt.

This is pretty much how Russians argue, from top officials to media pundits to paid Internet trolls. Deflect the conversation away from your own corruption, however you can.

After all, if person X is indicted for corruption, but unrelated persons Y and Z aren't ALSO indicted for unrelated matters at the same time, well then it's just not fucking fair and the whole thing has to be dropped!

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[Anonymous Coward]

Just when I thought the fake moon landing conversation had ended.

It will not end until the truth comes out. When I was a kid, I went on the Universal Studio tour, and when I went to the toilet, the tram left without me. So I looked around, and accidentally wandered into the warehouse with the fake Tranquility Base. Everything was done in Styrofoam, painted gray to match the color of the moon. There was an exact replica of the Eagle lander. I saw it all with my own eyes. Then the security guards grabbed me, threatened me, and told me that no one would believe me if I said anything. It is ironic that after all these years, it is the Russians that have finally revealed the coverup.

"Murky Details . . ."

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Well, here you go Mr. Putin; here are the tapes that you have been looking for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Since this contains content of a . . . well . . . "confidential" nature . . . you should view this late at night, after your wife has gone to bed.

. . . and don't forget a box of tissues, and some hand cream.

Re:"Murky Details . . ."

[Luckyo]

What does Putin have to do with this?

This is Markin, the well known token ultra nationalist retard who works as a spokesman rather than investigator. He's a bit like Rush Limbaugh in US, only with a whole lot less audience. Pens private op-eds every once in a while. He was mentioned a couple of times during a prime time show we had here in Finland about relations, basically dismissed by everyone as someone who likes attention and only gets it by publishing private over the top op-eds.

Re:"Murky Details . . ."

[AmiMoJo]

I wonder if the Russian media does the same sort of thing, i.e. portrays Limbaugh as some kind of spokesman for Obama?

About a decade ago a British newspaper called The Sun ran a story about how Japanese women were being tricked into buying sheep that had been sheared to look like poodles. There were confused as to why they didn't bark or eat dog food. Of course it was nonsense, eventually traced back to a joke someone told. Anyway, other retarded newspapers around the world picked it up, and then the Japanese media noticed. Ever since there have been monthly stories about how stupid and gullible British people are, often featuring obviously false stories published in the Sun or Daily Mail. Of course some of it is actually true, like the pictures of drunk people having sex in the street or looting in London, but still...

So the standard angle is now that British people are kind of stupid. Similar to how there is a stereotype about Russian people, and the media likes to find idiots that exemplify it and publicise them.

Re:"Murky Details . . ."

[dj245]

I wonder if the Russian media does the same sort of thing, i.e. portrays Limbaugh as some kind of spokesman for Obama?

About a decade ago a British newspaper called The Sun ran a story about how Japanese women were being tricked into buying sheep that had been sheared to look like poodles. There were confused as to why they didn't bark or eat dog food. Of course it was nonsense, eventually traced back to a joke someone told. Anyway, other retarded newspapers around the world picked it up, and then the Japanese media noticed. Ever since there have been monthly stories about how stupid and gullible British people are, often featuring obviously false stories published in the Sun or Daily Mail. Of course some of it is actually true, like the pictures of drunk people having sex in the street or looting in London, but still...

So the standard angle is now that British people are kind of stupid. Similar to how there is a stereotype about Russian people, and the media likes to find idiots that exemplify it and publicise them.

But stereotypes about Russian people are all true! They are all scary and depressed psychopaths! That's why nobody is their friend!

It certainly isn't the case that they are reclusive because they have a hard time making friends due to the stereotypes. That would be ridiculous.

Re: In other, "only in Russia" news...

[AntronArgaiv]

Mommy! Mommy! I wanna go on the bear ride again!

The proof?

[hcs_$reboot]

The proof.

Re:The proof?

[hcs_$reboot]

And everybody in the whole world is part of the conspiracy. Except you.

Not that he'd know anything about this...

[jratcliffe]

He went on to say "I'm very skeptical, since the background in a lot of those moon photos looks just like the set we used to film those attacks on defenseless Russians by Ukrainian thugs...uh...um...I mean...nevermind."

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[Rei]

Clearly fake. I can tell from some of the pixels.

Okay, okay, the bottom 90% of the vehicle that gets to a translunar trajectory is real because we saw it go up and disappear. But the top 10% was faked. That makes sense.

Missing

[Livius]

Missing? How could we let that happen? Those were the *last* moon rocks!

We Can Use This

[florescent_beige]

Now we can label moon landing sceptics (and with luck many other subspecies) as commie loving freedom haters.

Wrong in so many ways, true. But I bet it'd stick.

Radio Telescopes

[JBMcB]

Sure, because apparently the USSR didn't have radio telescopes tracking the missions. 'Cause they weren't really interested in moon shots back then, right? Free lunar telemetry for anyone pointing their dishes in the right spot? Pfft, no thank you.

The real fraud is that being perpetrated

[mark_reh]

by the fast food companies. They load the food with genetically engineered microbes that kill off and replace the microbes that normally populate our guts. These microbes bear payloads of prions that can pass the blood-brain barrier and target the pleasure centers in the brain causing us to become addicted to the fast food. This causes us to gain weight. The pharmaceutical companies are in on the plot in order to sell more diabetes and other obesity-related health problem medications.

The real shock will come when we learn that true masters of the fast food companies and pharmaceutical companies are actually aliens from another planet who are fattening us up like so many cattle, before they come en mass to slaughter us for food.

THAT is what should be investigated!

Re:The real fraud is that being perpetrated

[dbIII]

These microbes bear payloads of prions that can pass the blood-brain barrier and target the pleasure centers in the brain

You mean sugar, fat, salt and caffeine are not enough to make us happy with junk food?
Heresy!

Dr Strangelove

[PopeRatzo]

The secret died with Stanley Kubrick.

http://realitysandwich.com/232...

Re:Dr Strangelove

[redwraith94]

I think if there was anything covered up in the moon landings it was alien related. Not that they helped us get there, just we accidentally photographed them as well, or something.

Kennedy was assassinated because he dared to release the silver certificate back into circulation. The day after he was murdered, those BilderScum, had their living puppet pull the certificates. Kennedy isn't even in the ground yet, but oh no we must remove the silver from circulation! You might, I don't know actually control inflation for once, and threaten the very core of our petro-dollar hegemony! Perish the thought...

I like that term BilderScum, I am going to use it from now on. BIlderburg as in 'God of the mountain' (Bil / Bel / Baal = god, der = from / of, burg = mountain). So Lord of the scum. That's all you wretched vermin get, our sewer system, Enjoy it.

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they also spray you with rum, so no one will believe your story?

USA on the moon proof...

[turkeydance]

Scoreboard: when ALL the other teams walk away after looking at the final score. that's what happened in 1969.

Maybe he watched youtube

[Shempster]

Maybe he watched a youtube video by Richard Hoagland and believes there's an ancient 250 million year old disintegrating (from micrometeorite impacts), domed city of mile-high skyscrapers on the dark side of the moon. Furthermore, that NASA decided to classify it all and said 'we'll deal with all that later'. Interesting delusion, and would make a decent sci-fi book if you're a creative writer type.

Re:The footage is with the lost Doctor Who episode

[Anonymous Coward]

There are people who claim that was just recorded on a set in a studio, too! Crackpots!

Think he means missing specks of dust.

[Llamalarity]

There are few if any missing moon rocks. Other than the small ones gifted to politicians... While there may be many missing samples these are extremely tiny and often intended to be consumed by whatever test they were being subjected to. http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/2011/dec/0222.html Nothing to be concerned about here, lots of other things do deserve our attention.

Re:Think he means missing specks of dust.

[redwraith94]

I don't know why you people keep going on about these moon rocks. The documentary 'Portal 2' showed us that, if anything there is a glut of moon rocks, and that they may be bad for your health.

Re:The footage is with the lost Doctor Who episode

[Jason Levine]

They lost the footage because it clearly shows a TARDIS in the background. Can't have everyone knowing The Doctor is real, now can they?

From people who listened to it live

[MrKaos]

Ok so this is completely anecdotal from some people in my family who watched it in Australia. They watched/listened to it live off the feed from Parkes and a bit after the Eagle landed they heard a very excited Armstrong say: "Huston, Huston, There is something large and unusually* white coming off the crater ri..." and then the feed was cut.

* could have also been suspiciously.

Personally, I don't go in for the whole UFO thing or conspiracy theories about the moon landings but they have both maintained this story as what they both heard. I always thought those stories were just covers for intelligence operations - which seemed more feasible. I just think the moon landings were a pretty amazing achievement.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Ok so this is completely anecdotal from some people in my family who watched it in Australia. They watched/listened to it live off the feed from Parkes and a bit after the Eagle landed they heard a very excited Armstrong say: "Huston, Huston, There is something large and unusually* white coming off the crater ri..." and then the feed was cut.

* could have also been suspiciously.

I watched it and I never heard that. Neither did anyone else I went to school with. At best someone has been yanking your chain. You say you heard that from someone who saw it - almost every Australian from a few years younger than me - to 5 years older would have watched (tv wasn't in every home, but most schools had one, even if they borrowed it) it - yet only the supposed source of you anecdote heard "Huston, Huston, There is something large and unusually* white coming off the crater ri..." and then the feed was cut?!

The feed wasn't "cut" either.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[MrKaos]

At best someone has been yanking your chain. You say you heard that from someone who saw it - almost every Australian from a few years younger than me - to 5 years older would have watched (tv wasn't in every home, but most schools had one, even if they borrowed it) it -

Wow, that's a pretty absolute statement to make. Don't you think you are being a little bite arrogant? I said, 'Anecdotal' and 'I don't go in for the whole UFO thing or conspiracy theories about the moon landings' so apart from giving them the benefit of the doubt that was the limit of my chain being yanked.

I was speculating on what the Russian government wanted investigated about the moon landing because it didn't say in the article. I wasn't there so I don't have the benefit of what you saw in school but I do know that it was at least 2 people who told me the same thing and they had adult mature brains with an adult capacity for memory, making them approximately 20 years older than you at the time. Still, I had some doubt.

yet only the supposed source of you anecdote heard "Huston, Huston, There is something large and unusually* white coming off the crater ri..." and then the feed was cut?!

The feed wasn't "cut" either.

I don't claim that what I know is the truth, are you? I was curious about what other people had heard because, yes, I doubted it myself until I read about a U.S Congressman asking Congress question about exactly the same statement by Apollo 11. It wasn't what I expected to find.

So maybe they weren't the only ones who heard those words. I didn't, either.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Wow, that's a pretty absolute statement to make.

It's a binary thing, and I'm not relying on anecdotes. I know what I heard, and I've heard a lot of conspiracy stories since. I've discussed it with family and friends since - who also remember the actual event - as opposed to someone who says someone told them, and they all say the same thing. Of course it's possible everyone but your sources were brainwashed (or part of the conspiracy), and the original recording were doctored to match the broadcast records (length of the broadcast). But I'll give more weight to the simplest explanation.

Don't you think you are being a little bite arrogant?

No. Your response is arrogant - or do you call dismissing the opinion of the majority in favor of the opinions of a few, open-minded?

I said, 'Anecdotal'

Noted on the first read. You're not new to /. so you know the anecdote adage.

I was speculating on what the Russian government wanted investigated about the moon landing because it didn't say in the article.

It didn't? Which article - the one referenced by the /. story? Or the one it sourced?:- "We are not contending that they did not fly [to the moon], and simply made a film about it. But all of these scientific — or perhaps cultural — artifacts are part of the legacy of humanity, and their disappearance without a trace is our common loss. An investigation will reveal what happened," Markin wrote. ref1

I suspect it's just a case of "don't criticise us about the Ukraine or our hosting the 2018 FIFA", amongst other things - hard to tell from the google-translate of the source article, unless you happen to be fluent in the language. He's a politician, and he writes a blog, or at least someone does in his name - it may have just been the first thing that popped into the writer's head when they spent two minutes trying to think of something suitably click-bait for the day's feed. What is clear is that he does not question whether the Lunar landing occurred or not.

I do know that it was at least 2 people who told me the same thing and they had adult mature brains with an adult capacity for memory, making them approximately 20 years older than you at the time.

What are you trying to say? That you can't do maths - or am ad-hominen attack properly? (if they're 20 years older than me they've been pensioners for some time - maybe there's an organic explanation? see that's how it's done) That my parents, uncles (including one who worked at Parkes as a non-NASA employee at the time), aunties, teachers and many thousands of other "non-school age" Australians are part of the same conspiracy? (bear in mind we didn't have fluoridated water in our youth).

I read about a U.S Congressman asking Congress question about exactly the same statement by Apollo 11.

I'm curious and wouldn't be at all surprised if that happened, not that it'd mean that much given that members of congress believe all sorts of wacky shit - and represent some truly weird beliefs. (as do some of our senators e.g. the shower of stupid that came down prior to the Bill of Rights referendum). Do you have a reference for that, and how much weight do you believe it adds to the conspiracy?

Re:From people who listened to it live

[MrKaos]

It's a binary thing, and I'm not relying on anecdotes. I know what I heard, and I've heard a lot of conspiracy stories since. I've discussed it with family and friends since - who also remember the actual event

My bad, I didn't mean anecdotal (posting tired). They were family members who heard those words from the broadcast and have maintained the story with no variation.

No. Your response is arrogant - or do you call dismissing the opinion of the majority in favor of the opinions of a few, open-minded?

Apologies, I was tired a not doing very good job of not taking it personally because it was family and I didn't express myself properly. I had doubt myself

It didn't? Which article - the one referenced by the /. story? Or the one it sourced?:- "We are not contending that they did not fly [to the moon], and simply made a film about it. But all of these scientific — or perhaps cultural — artifacts are part of the legacy of humanity, and their disappearance without a trace is our common loss. An investigation will reveal what happened," Markin wrote.

Sorry, I'd closed that down because the ads were annoying. It's a tragic loss, to see the high res film instead of a film of a monitor in B/W would be an appropriate use of the word awesome.

It's a bothersome mindworm though.

I suspect it's just a case of "don't criticise us about the Ukraine or our hosting the 2018 FIFA"

Not an unreasonable premise.

What are you trying to say? That you can't do maths - or am ad-hominen attack properly? (if they're 20 years older than me they've been pensioners for some time - maybe there's an organic explanation? see that's how it's done)

Not at all, no attack intended, just tired. I don't know many children can maintain that attention for that many hours. I'd agree with you on the organic explanation but the story has been maintained for well over 30 years. I just don't see a punchline anytime soon.

That my parents, uncles (including one who worked at Parkes as a non-NASA employee at the time), aunties, teachers and many thousands of other "non-school age" Australians are part of the same conspiracy? (bear in mind we didn't have fluoridated water in our youth).

Well I don't believe they have maintained a lie either, I have no idea what it means. They don't drink, smoke or take drugs. I'm not committed to any view point on the matter and maybe I'll get to listen to the whole thing one day.

I'm curious and wouldn't be at all surprised if that happened, not that it'd mean that much given that members of congress believe all sorts of wacky shit - and represent some truly weird beliefs.

Who knows, there are so many lies out there and so many amazing stories sound like wacky shit. You can pursue the truth if you can evaluate it rationally.

(as do some of our senators e.g. the shower of stupid that came down prior to the Bill of Rights referendum).

Which Bill of Rights?

Do you have a reference for that, and how much weight do you believe it adds to the conspiracy?

I wish I did, but it was never important enough to my to bother with. I wanted to dismiss it. But I went from doubt to WTF!

Re:From people who listened to it live

[Demonoid-Penguin]

My bad, I didn't mean anecdotal (posting tired). They were family members who heard those words from the broadcast and have maintained the story with no variation.

When you say "I was told" "some people in my family"/"at least 2 people" it is an anecdote (to us).

Apologies

No skin off my back.

It's a tragic loss

Yes. Maybe the Russians stole it?

I don't know many children can maintain that attention for that many hours.

Huh?! The radio broadcast started before breakfast, but it was a normal school day until just before lunch. The television broadcast (via Parkes) started just before lunch East Coast Time. It didn't run for "hours".
No such thing as ADD or dsylexia then.

If you do your maths I have to be somewhere between 53 and 67 (between 5 and 18 at the time, ). Do you not have complete memories of important, much heralded events during that time? It helps that television was very new - we "watched" it then (and wearing onions on our belts was a custom at the time, back in nineteen dicketty doo).

TThey don't drink, smoke or take drugs.

There's the problem! [brains are probably soft as their arteries, mutter, mutter]

You can pursue the truth if you can evaluate it rationally.

... and have all the facts. Otherwise you run a strong risk of finding only facts that support a preconceived rationale.

Which Bill of Rights?

The one we didn't vote for (1988) - thanks to Alan Jones and other conspiracy nutters. As such the only constitutional rights we have is free trade between states - which we do not have.

If you want to pursue conspiracies try looking at what Harold Holt had for breakfast instead of hunting for Chinese submarines, read the transcripts of the Falcon and the Snowman trials, or consider whether a peppercorn of rent is a compliment. And then there's the full story of Maralinga - more than just a few hundred pallets of radioactive material dumped just outside of Sydney Heads. Or just accept that conspiracies are a fact of life - most of which come to naught.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[MrKaos]

When you say "I was told" "some people in my family"/"at least 2 people" it is an anecdote (to us).

Kind of like your story is to me.

Yes. Maybe the Russians stole it?

It was probably the aliens idea of a joke.

Huh?! It didn't run for "hours".

So you admit you weren't paying attention

No such thing as ADD or dsylexia then.

If you do your maths I have to be somewhere between 53 and 67 (between 5 and 18 at the time, ).

So, back then would they have called you "A little fucken smart arse" instead?

Do you not have complete memories of important, much heralded events during that time?

When I lost my virginity?

It helps that television was very new - we "watched" it then

YOU WERE WATCHING!!! Well, I suppose you're only human.

(and wearing onions on our belts was a custom at the time, back in nineteen dicketty doo).

Generation triple X, read all about the weed smoke and the kinky sex, get fucked.

There's the problem! [brains are probably soft as their arteries, mutter, mutter]

I think you are onto something.

... and have all the facts. Otherwise you run a strong risk of finding only facts that support a preconceived rationale.

HooRay for Hollywood!!! Vested interests exist, so the truth is constantly raped. Thanks for sharing what you heard, as I said I'm not committed to a view on this, it is interesting.

The one we didn't vote for (1988) - thanks to Alan Jones and other conspiracy nutters. As such the only constitutional rights we have is free trade between states - which we do not have.

Indeed he is a cunt, but the apathetic morons that listen to him are worse. He sucked a lot of cock to get where he is today and is proud of it.

If you want to pursue conspiracies

Too busy reading legislative articles, writing letters and lobbying to preserve the minor sheds of freedom we have left to have time. Why is it that the only time the two parties agree is when it is to pass some laws to become more intrusive.

That it is no conspiracy and I agree, Australia needs a bill of rights.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Kind of like your story is to me.

No. When you were told by someone that something happened, it wasn't an anecdote - until I read it. When I tell you I saw something it's not an anecdote. When I tell you someone told me something - it's an anecdote to you.

So you admit you weren't paying attention

Huh? The live television broadcast did not run for "hours". How hard is it for you to pay attention to something written on the same page you're replying to?

So, back then would they have called you "A little fucken smart arse" instead?

By people like you - yes. And not just then.
Do you even think about the things you say? Them words have meanings - have you considered that and what they mean? It's a rhetorical question.
Undoubtedly you don't like "smart arses" and prefer the company of the opposite - for obvious reasons - given that the opposite of a smart arse is a dumb prick.

When I lost my virginity?

That must of been a slow news day....

Why is it that the only time the two parties agree is when it is to pass some laws to become more intrusive.

Because they're both competing for election funding from the same business interests? According to the AEC the party who spends the most gets the most votes.
Because if two parties compete the one that creates the biggest fear of loss gets the most votes (presuming they have the same level of electoral campaign funding). e.g. one party proposes to tax chocolate to fund public dental care and the other campaigns to cut dental care "rorting by bludgers and illegal immigrants" so that Australians can get better quality chocolate - the "you aren't getting the chocolate you deserve" party gets most of the votes.
Losses loom larger than gains?
The only reason you're not a millionaire is because of lesbians rorting the maternity leave benefits. Vote for the party against lesbians being entitled to paid maternity leave - or, vote for increased tax for higher income earners to fund better public education. Let the voters choose. More on this story tomorrow night. Our next guest will explain how to double your investment returns on the share market. We'll be back after the ads for expensive non-essentials you need to have. Followed by ads for Telstra (formerly the taxpayer funded entity called Telecom - before they changed the name and sold it back to taxpayers). This show is brought to you by the Commonwealth Bank (originally created with taxpayer funds so every Australian had access to a bank account - then sold back to taxpayers, who now stand in ever lengthening queues watching ads for new loan "products" while waiting to see how much their shares have increased as a result of cost saving).

That it is no conspiracy and I agree, Australia needs a bill of rights.

It's a conspiracy if you don't know about it(?). Alan Jones managed to convince many that the Bill of Rights was a conspiracy to rob them of their rights. Agreed we need a Bill of Rights but... look immigrants stealing our high paying jobs, um, illegal immigrants, um, on boats (not planes), um, on fishing boats (not liners). What this country really needs is less pointy-headed academics - they think they're too good to clean toilets and work in factories. The less we waste on public schools the more real workers we'll have to build a strong economy on. (sigh)

Re:From people who listened to it live

[MrKaos]

Huh? The live television broadcast did not run for "hours".

Your statement is ambiguous. You say it started before breakfast and television broadcast (via Parkes) started just before lunch and fail to say when you stop watching or when it ended for you.

How hard is it for you to pay attention to something written on the same page you're replying to?

Without any accuracy and specificity in your response my level of attention is irrelevant. "did not run for hours" implies sometime less than 1 hour and 59 minutes, before breakfast to just before lunch implies at least 3 hours, even though you didn't connect the two statements. Therefore, based on the information you supplied, I can imply that you watched it for between 1 and 119 minutes. How long you watched and listened to whatever broadcasts were made was what I was interested in.

From the wiki:

Apollo 11 was the spaceflight that landed the first humans on the Moon, Americans Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, on July 20, 1969, at 20:18 UTC. Armstrong became the first to step onto the lunar surface six hours later on July 21 at 02:56 UTC. Armstrong spent about two and a half hours outside the spacecraft, Aldrin slightly less

The people I am talking about took the *entire* day off to watch and listen to *everything*. From the duration of the mission on the moon perhaps more than two hours was broadcast from the surface of the moon. Maybe they saw something you did not *see* or *listen* to or it was an earlier broadcast, considering the duration of the landing. I was simply giving you the benefit of the doubt with your answer. As I said, I'm not committed to any opinion on the matter, I was just wondering what other people saw and heard and you have told me that so thank you.

Do you even think about the things you say? Them words have meanings - have you considered that and what they mean? It's a rhetorical question.

Yes. I considered that now-a-days, instead of calling you a 'fucken little smart arse' and giving you a slap in the head, they medicate you and fuck your head instead. It wasn't about you.

Undoubtedly you don't like "smart arses" and prefer the company of the opposite - for obvious reasons - given that the opposite of a smart arse is a dumb prick.

Sometimes smart arses are entertaining. The opposite could also be a dumb cunt, a smart cunt or a dick head, however the obvious the reason appears to be you taking the conversation too seriously. Again, not having a go at you.

That must of been a slow news day....

yes, they were slow news days, I was incredibly fortunate that no-one had anything better to do, than me.

Because they're both competing for election funding from the same business interests? According to the AEC the party who spends the most gets the most votes.

Agree, I was speculating about the motives.

It's a conspiracy if you don't know about it

Indeed, so I generally focus on the the things I can do something about. Unfortunately the general public's apathy isn't a problem I can solve.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Huh? The live television broadcast did not run for "hours".

Your statement is ambiguous.

No, it is not.

You say it started before breakfast

Bullshit. You lie and leave tracks. I wrote Huh?! The radio broadcast started before breakfast, but it was a normal school day until just before lunch. The television broadcast (via Parkes) started just before lunch East Coast Time. It didn't run for "hours". No such thing as ADD or dsylexia then.

Re:From people who listened to it live

[MrKaos]

Huh? The live television broadcast did not run for "hours".

Your statement is ambiguous.

No, it is not.

Yes, it is. I find it ambiguous, so it is ambiguous.

You say it started before breakfast

Bullshit. You lie and leave tracks. I wrote Huh?! The radio broadcast started before breakfast, but it was a normal school day until just before lunch. The television broadcast (via Parkes) started just before lunch East Coast Time. It didn't run for "hours". No such thing as ADD or dsylexia then.

It is your message. The responsibility for communicating it accurately is yours. So instead of rushing to take offence just resolve the ambiguity, it is not as if I'm trying to insult you.

1) Did you listen to the live radio broadcast?

2) When did it start and end?

3) When did you start and stop listening?

I watched it happen back in 1969

[occasional_dabbler]

Markin hastened to add that he is, of course, not suggesting that NASA faked the moon landings and just filmed the events in a studio.

I just came here to say, f*ck right the way off, waaaay over there, whoever is peddling this old crap. sheesh.

Russia jumps the shark...

[bledri]

It's all part of a plot by Russia to make US government officials appear semi-sane ensuring our continued ineffectiveness on the world stage.

Coincides with Trump announcement

[Tablizer]

Putin should merge with Trump. Very similar personalities.

Re:The footage is with the lost Doctor Who episode

[AJWM]

Ha, I've seen the Marco Polo serial.

Mind, I was about ten at the time; it was being broadcast on CBC I think the year after it first aired on BBC.

About all I remember from it is a scene where they're crossing the desert, the TARDIS being carried in a wagon, and The Doctor supplies water to the party "collected from condensation on the inside walls", and the incredulity of the others who aren't aware that the TARDIS is smaller on the outside.

Also saw the first Dalek episodes when originally aired on CBC. Probably others too, but not as well remembered.

Desperate for Distraction

[pubwvj]

Sounds to me like the Russians are desperate for a distraction from their domestic problems and their international floundering.

Sometimes the obvious is the correct answer?

[thogard]

The moon rocks go missing because they aren't well protected and are rarer than gold.

Many of the odd statements issued by NASA were just run of the mill anti-spying stories. For example the space suits from that time are "to keep astronauts warm in the cold of space". If you in a perfect vacuum and generating 170 Watts, you don't need heating. The real story is that the US used Peltier effect cooling and the Soviets used compressor based systems. Since the people who controlled what technology could be talked about thought the Russians were behind the US, they made up a story and stuck to it. The real reason for the difference is that the Russians could build reliable compressors that worked in space and the US had a lead in the Peltier technology even as both sides experimented with the other technology.

Re:Sometimes the obvious is the correct answer?

[thogard]

That calculator doesn't take into account the wonderful effects of the mylar layers along with the other insulation to prevent instant cooking when exposed to the sun. Both the compressor and Peltier systems transfer heat to a place where it can be properly radiated. I figure about a 2 deg rise per hour at norrmal rest energy consumption based on specific heat and rest (k)calories burned.

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[tompaulco]

It will not end until the truth comes out

The truth is once they ran the numbers for how much the program was going to cost, they decided to fake it. Then they ran the numbers on developing the technology to convincingly fake it, and that was even worse. So they sent some guys to the moon in a rocket and faked it from there.

Moon rocks

[Tablizer]

Tell them the missing rocks are right next to Kraft's Superbowl ring.

No it is just grandstanding

[Sycraft-fu]

Anyone with a bit of sense understands the difference. The reason the US can indict these FIFA officials is because they made the mistake of committing financial crimes that involved the US in some way. Either using US banks, or with US citizens/companies, or in the US. That makes it something the US can prosecute for, and obviously Interpol agrees.

Investigating the US space program. Ummm, well I mean you can "investigate" in terms of "Collect whatever evidence you can get your hands on and release a report," but that's all. No criminal case can be brought for anything since it is all in the US. They can't declare jurisdiction, the US would never agree (nor would international law) and the US has a big enough army that they can make that decision.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[gstoddart]

Investigating the US space program. Ummm, well I mean

Hey! Look over there, a Yeti!

There is nothing in this article other than some idiot saying he objects to the US appointing themselves in charge of investigating corruption, and by the way, we should look into their claims of landing on the moon.

Not that he thinks they lied about the moon.

This is very thinly veiled distraction and innuendo.

Don't treat it like it's a coherent anything. It's complete gibberish.

This is the fucking Wookie defense.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[ClickOnThis]

This is the fucking Wookie defense.

I think you mean the Chewbacca defense.

But you're right about the innuendo, etc.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[gstoddart]

"This is the fucking Wookie defense."

I think you mean the Chewbacca defense.

Chewbacca is a Wookie. If Chewbacca is a Wookie, then we must investigate the US moon landings.

If FIFA is corrupt, then Chewbacca is a Wookie who must investigate the US moon landings.

There is no logical conclusion or argument being made here. Just blatant "hey, look at the moon landings".

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[ClickOnThis]

:-DDD

Thanks for that. You made my day!

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[rtb61]

From the Russian point of view the only reason the US government investigated it and sough prosecution was because Russian is the next country to get the World Cup. The side show venting about the moon is because he didn't think about the corruption involved in the US getting the Olympics. So the Russians government does not care about the various US moon missions (at least in the past everything is changing now as the push is on to get back there, obviously this is secret that has just subconsciously leaked out), just empty bitching and a possible security blunder.

Look at all the stupid shit American politicians say, seriously stupid shit that doesn't even hint of benign as the FIFA investigation. Every time any Russian says anything it is Putin's fault or the whole Russian governments fault. Yet the endless stream of bullshit spouting out from the whackddoodles that infest the US congress and senate is considered as not being from the US government at all this by the US government.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[lgw]

Every time any Russian says anything it is Putin's fault or the whole Russian governments fault. Yet the endless stream of bullshit spouting out from the whackddoodles that infest the US congress and senate is considered as not being from the US government at all this by the US government.

Well, democracy is just a collection of clowns who can't even agree on which clown car to use, but in a dictatorship it is all the fault of the dictator.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[KGIII]

Tinfoil hat posts go to the top of the page. Moderate tech goes in the middle. Serious discussion goes at the bottom.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[rtb61]

I guess you mean the corporate dictatorship of a derailed democracy in the US but then those leaders try to keep well hidden but in the era of the internet that attempt to hide is failing. Which is exactly why the US choose most foolishly to align with the KhoKhols https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... in what is basically redneckistan because it achieved the perceived objective of gaining control of Ukraine to discomfort Russia only to lose control to the KhoKhols, resulting in chaos and dead Australians and Europeans and the chaos has just started.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[Rakarra]

Look at all the stupid shit American politicians say, seriously stupid shit that doesn't even hint of benign as the FIFA investigation. Every time any Russian says anything it is Putin's fault or the whole Russian governments fault. Yet the endless stream of bullshit spouting out from the whackddoodles that infest the US congress and senate is considered as not being from the US government at all this by the US government.

Well that's what happens when you crack down on the media that doesn't toe your particular brand of bullshit. People tend to assume that the stuff you let through has your seal of approval. It's hardly a "Russian" problem either, it's fairly common in any country where the media is strictly controlled by the state. Plenty of people elsewhere think Fox News does Obama's bidding just because their news outlets are controlled by their government.

Re:No it is just grandstanding

[rtb61]

I was talking about the US government press officers at press conferences acting in complete denial of what 'their' elected government representatives are saying in public. They all count, they are the government, when they pump war they are inciting mass murder, when the speak corruptly in favour of corporations that is the US government doing that. Yet the press officers at government organised press conferences routinely act in denial of that actual representative influence on government policy, they in effect deny the democratic functioning of government. Elected representatives of the US government are going to have to start taking global responsibility and that is in a bad way to be clear, for the public announcements that they make, every time they speak in public.

You saw that a lot in studios too

[Sycraft-fu]

Master reel-to-reel tape was fucking expensive. So small time bands didn't keep the masters, or intermediate multi-track recordings. They instead reused tape that had already been used, and was then used again.

Even these days, plenty of time master recordings aren't kept. For professional productions they usually are but for others stuff often not. At work I do recordings some times and they are AVCHD recorded to internal flash in the camera. That gets erased and reused of course. When I dump the data, I keep it long enough to edit down the video and make sure the result is good, then purge it. It is too large to be worth keeping around. We could buy storage for it, but we don't.

Both be true

[BeemanIT]

Why can't both the real moon landing and the fake both be true? The US would be able to save face if the real moon landing had issues. Propaganda.

Naaarp

[redwraith94]

My favorite thing in this discussion would be Nvidia's rendering of a moon landing, and their diatribe:

http://www.nvidia.com/coolstuf...

Re:Or you could, I don't know, look for yourself

[redwraith94]

I lol'ed, thanks for that.

Well okay, it's both

[ClickOnThis]

Anyone with a bit of sense understands the difference.

I hope I have a bit of sense. ;-)

It's grumbling because he's "venting his frustration" per the article.

It's grandstanding because he calls the supposed mystery behind missing videos and moon rocks is a "common loss" to the "legacy of humanity."

I agree with everything else in your post.

Buzz Aldrin

[p51d007]

Better not let them get anywhere near Buzz....He decked a guy some years ago that had hounded him trying to get him to say that it was all a fake. They are just pissed that 40+ years have gone by and they were still THE LOSERS!

The little land that time forgot...

[mbeckman]

Next thing you're going to tell me is that Lake Wobegone was faked. Every week for FORTY YEARS!

Don't even get me started about Paul Bunyan.

What really gets me

[barakn]

... is how the lunar hoax conspiracy theorists don't seem to spend much time pondering the launches of the Saturn Vs. These were very public events witnessed by thousands of people. Was each and every one of this people brainwashed into thinking they say a launch? If that seems unlikely, what exactly was going on with the 363 foot tall rockets blasting off into space if they weren't going to the moon? Why bother to build something that had the capability, and then launch it for real, but then let it hang in orbit instead of going all the way. Oh, well, the lunar hoax theorists I've run across were always idiots, I guess I shouldn't care what they think.

Inflammatory headline?

[Sibko]

Okay, so I decided to do a little digging on the actual op-ed piece. It's available here: http://izvestia.ru/news/587742

Here is a translation of what he said regarding the moon landings, courtesy of washington post:

“No, we are not saying they never flew up there and just filmed a movie instead. But all these scientific, or perhaps even cultural artifacts are part of an international human heritage, and their disappearance is a great loss for all of us. An investigation would reveal [what happened and where they are].”

This is ALL he says about the moon landings. The slashdot post insinuates, "various murky details surrounding the U.S. moon landings between 1969 and 1972." but the actual piece after translation and in context with the corruption tone of the article looks like an accusation of US officials selling off or stealing material recovered from the moon. Not an accusation that the US never went to the moon. He even explicitly says that's not what he's questioning.

But I guess we gotta get our pitchforks and torches out because it's the evil bad Russia.

PutinBot

[Mats Svensson]

What about the rumors that Putin is a animatronic doll controlled by the Soviet underground Nazi-party? Where is the international investigation for that? I'm not saying that the lack of an investigation, points to a greater conspiracy. But it couldn't hurt to finally get an end to this controversy, right?

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[lgw]

Everyone knows the moon landings were filmed on a soundstage on Mars!

While we're at it, let's investigate Sputnik!

[Ihlosi]

And let's be tooooootally impartial. What could go wrong?

USSR tracked the rocket

[Kartu]

Trajectory of the rocket was not hard to calculate.
Soviet Radars closely watched the rocket.
Here is what Alexey Leonov (soviet cosmonaut) said about the hoax theory (I've translated only important part):

"... we had military unit 32103, which supported space transmission... Unlike the rest of Soviet Union, we watched Armstrong and Aldring landing on the moon... "

Grechko, another famous soviet cosmonaut adds to it:

"We know for sure that Americans landed on the moon. When we were receiving the transmission, it was from the moon, not from Hollywood"...

Add to it: hundreds of kilograms of moon soil, which are identical to several hundred grams brought to Earth by soviet robots..

First find out who shot down 300 of our citizens

[hooiberg]

before you start useless investigations like this...

Easier to land than fake it?

[portwojc]

How does this hold up if the landing was faked or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXTF6bs1IU

Beware of Crapping, Screeching Low Flying Monkeys

[TheRealHocusLocus]

This issue exists and persists only to illustrate how many people will seize upon some dark conspiracy that not only 'means' nothing on its face... but if it were true and unraveled completely, would still mean nothing. I mean, think about it: there's absolutely nothing actionable in there.

People whose hobby is to fuck with people fuck with people with this fuck, as a hobby. Fuck those people.

If Moon Hoax stuff is coming from someone you love and respect... heed comments on the subject but adopt the same proud and polite tone as a potty training parent who finds a surprise package on the carpet. You cannot express dismay or anger at their poops because a life long poop anxiety is one of the worst things that can happen to a child. You need to scoop it up with their 'help', making friendly conversation about its texture and color, all the while heading to the toilet. Then it goes in and you say, "THAT's where it goes!" and they get to push the handle.

On Internet forums with strangers you don't need to actually scoop it up and take it to the potty (it is after all, someone else's web site). Just a dismissive but polite remark at the beginning that is encouraging like "That's a nice little poop you made, but let's try to get it into the potty next time."

Then find something else to discuss related to space, and discuss that.

Heed not anonymous comments on the subject, treat it as if it was Nature's Own Crap falling from the sky. You can infuriate the cowardly attention-seekers by making direct unseeing eye contact with them and their crap only to say, "How delicate is the process of crap-nucleation and how weighty is crap, that it can fall from a clear sky with no crap-clouds even visible! What a blessing!"

Shit can get personal too. The Bart Sibrel response is the only appropriate direct personal response, and of all the explorers Buzz Aldrin the only one 'man enough' to use it. The Right Stuff indeed.

Apollo 13?

[Big Hairy Ian]

Yes of course they faked fucking it up

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[michelcolman]

Everyone knows the moon landings were filmed on a soundstage on Mars!

Yes, they first tried to do it in the Nevada desert, but they couldn't get the sound right.

Of course the moon landing was faked

[pauljuno]

If you really want the details, watch the documentary Capricorn One. You can find details on imdb.com.

Re:The footage is with the lost Doctor Who episode

[bvimo]

If only there was a way to somehow record your memories!

Russian Space Agency Hand Waving

[Mysticalfruit]

I'll start this comment by stating up front that a SpaceX fan.

Now with that said, imagine you're in the Russian space industry... Falcon9 / Dragon / DragonRider/ CST100 represent serious competition. At a time when the Russian economy could best be described as struggling, the last thing it needs is for SpaceX to start gobbling up the lucrative ISS lift slots. Yes, I know congress just recently decided to keep funding sending astronauts via Soyuz. However, in the longrun, once Dragon{9,Rider} prove themselves, that source of funding dries up...

Ask this question... Once SpaceX has a fully operational DragonRider... how much does that cost per seat? Would the Russian government in the face of financial short comings come to the conclusion it's cheaper to spend US $20M to send a Cosmonaut to the ISS on a SpaceX rocket instead of the cost for a whole Soyuz?

I'm all for it

[Maury Markowitz]

> the "various murky details surrounding the U.S. moon landings between 1969 and 1972

Yes, let's relive that time in history where the US absolutely crushed your country in a come-from-behind victory.

> Falcon9 / Dragon / DragonRider/ CST100 represent serious competition

They represent the death of the Soviet launch industry. And the Chinese, Japanese, Indians and pretty much everything in the US as well. The only niches still open are heavy lift like Ariane 5, and how long will that last? Couple of years, tops.

Surprised the hell out of me, but BDB turns out to be the correct solution.

Other stories on examiner.com

[Eunuchswear]

Connecticut woman arrested after sexual attack on dog results in death

Colorado police issue warrant on Beth Chapman, wife of Dog the Bounty Hunter

Pennsylvania couple accused of having sex with their dog

'Dog the Bounty Hunter's' Lyssa Chapman's book reveals horrific childhood

Great site. News for Nerds indeed.

Re:I Think Maybe Ivan Should Put Up, Or Shut Up

[LifesABeach]

Maybe this would be a good time for Ivan to Put Up or Shut Up? How about all the soviet moon landing sites?

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[Rakarra]

I see your triangle and I'll raise you one Timecube.

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[MobSwatter]

I see your triangle and I'll raise you one Timecube.

The trouble with the mob is only individuals go down when they get caught, thus is where the law falls short aside from those behind the shield that hold a membership card to it and act as a black hand. Incomprehensible hypothesis is merely a way of eloquently explaining denial to a people kept in the dark and generationally made stupid. Is it really possible that thieves and killers could not be liars? Thus is where 'Timecube' actually does apply, and where a destructive form of profit picks up to provide settlement where the law falls short.

Re:Find JFK's brain too, since you're looking

[KGIII]

His brain was easy to find. It was all over the car, in his wife's hand, and some left in his skull. You do not think we saved it, do you?

Re:Laughing at your dumb ass.

[circletimessquare]

you think russia nuking anything is going to work out for russia?

i hope they do too

it will accelerate its demise

Re:and 1 ....2......3.... Begin

[MobSwatter]

What?,
You'll see.

No. Never. "Its", sans apostrophe, is the gender neutral possessive. "It's" is only a contraction (usually of "it is", but sometimes "it has").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

The apostrophe ( â(TM) or ' ) is a punctuation mark, and sometimes a diacritical mark, in languages that use the Latin alphabet or certain other alphabets. In English, it serves three purposes:[1]

The marking of possessive case (as in the eagle's feathers, or in one month's time).

Possessive implies ownership. Perhaps you should tear up your HS diploma, in todays day and age you just might qualify as an English major.

Re:The bigger problems for the foil hat crowd are.

[Rakarra]

this echoes what I've always thought. There were too many people involved too keep it a secret

That never, ever stops a conspiracy theorist.

Re:The tapes were re-used [not intentional]

[Tablizer]

I've seen no evidence that anybody intentionally reused and erased the space footage. More likely somebody saw them laying around and just grabbed and reused without asking or checking -- a lazy shortcut to getting their job done.