Windows Telemetry Rolls Out

ihtoit writes: Last week came the warning, now comes the roll out. One of the most most controversial aspects of Windows 10 is coming to Windows 7 and 8. Microsoft has released upgrades which enable the company to track what a user is doing. The updates – KB3075249, KB3080149 and KB3068708 – all add "customer experience and diagnostic telemetry" to the older versions. gHacks points out that the updates will ignore any previous user preferences reporting: "These four updates ignore existing user preferences stored in Windows 7 and Windows 8 (including any edits made to the Hosts file) and immediately starts exchanging user data with vortex-win.data.microsoft.com and settings-win.data.microsoft.com."

Comments

Oh, they're a big company,

[jpellino]

surely they know what they're doing and it's all for a better customer experience.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollocks. Go wash your mouth out with SOAP.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Teckla]

surely they know what they're doing and it's all for a better customer experience.

Oh, absolutely! Windows 10 is great!

So far, Windows 10 has reminded me repeatedly that I should: (1) Consider getting Office 365! (2) Consider installing Skype! (3) Should collect and use Bing Rewards! (4) That I should look into getting an Xbox! (5) That I should buy things from the Microsoft Store!

If I didn't like to play PC games, I'd have gotten a Mac instead. Microsoft is displaying some of the most ballsy behavior I've seen since the 1990's. The outright obnoxious behavior and contempt they're showing for their users astonishes me. I feel like the old anti-competitive, monopolistic Microsoft is back.

So much for Windows 10 being a good release. *sigh*

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[yuhong]

To be honest, SQM is quite old (dates back to at least Office 2003), but the hosts file bypass does makes me feel bad if it is true. I just realize that a lot of the trolling is about the EULA and privacy policy though.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

Citations or screenshots please. I have Win10 on three PCs I use all the time and have not seen any of the bs you're talking about.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Gaygirlie]

So far, Windows 10 has reminded me repeatedly that I should: (1) Consider getting Office 365! (2) Consider installing Skype! (3) Should collect and use Bing Rewards! (4) That I should look into getting an Xbox! (5) That I should buy things from the Microsoft Store!

So, where do you actually see these things? I've been using Windows 10 Insider Preview for a good while before it went RTM and I have W10 installed on two laptops and one desktop at the moment and, well, I have not seen any of the things you mentioned, not even once.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[yuhong]

Sounds like minor annoyances. My favorite MS fiasco from the 1990s is the OS/2 2.0 fiasco for example.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[I'm New Around Here]

Ok Teckla, you have been called out by an AC to prove you experienced the actions you claimed.

Be here behind the school at 6 o'clock with the proof, or be branded a liar for eternity!

;^)

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

7 was good. 8 was crap. they skipped 9. the 'good' version we should have had and went right to 10. which is crap.

the pattern still holds and will not be fooled by the numbers.

so now we have to wait for 11. but there won't be an 11. just forever updates to 10 sticking that windows store deeper into your ass.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

"So much for Windows 7, 8, or 10 being a good release. *sigh*"

There, fixed it for you, since they're backporting all the shit people hate about Windows 10 to the previous OSes.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Teckla]

Citations or screenshots please. I have Win10 on three PCs I use all the time and have not seen any of the bs you're talking about.

You're lucky. For those not so lucky, they can Google how to disable some of the bad behaviors.

As a freebie, here's how you disable the Office 365 advertising in Windows 10:

Start > Settings > System > Notifications & actions > Scroll down to "Show notifications from these apps" > Get Office > Off.

Microsoft knows non-technical people aren't likely to find and disable this kind of obnoxious behavior, so they'll be stuck with obnoxious "Get Office 365!" notifications forever. As well as the other things I mentioned.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[yuhong]

Not this I think.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[LuniticusTheSane]

I've been running Win 10 since the week it officially launched, and haven't seen any of these ads. I went to the settings you describe, and Get Office isn't an option.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

There, fixed it for you, since they're backporting all the shit people hate about Windows 10 to the previous OSes.

Isn't it lucky that as a Windows 7 user I can just choose not to install those updates, then?

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding. Windows 10 is basically taking a page right from Microsoft's 1990s playbook and then amping it up to eleven. It is a blatant attempt by MS to leverage Windows to try to lock people into their other software and services, all of which except for XBox would be rightfully be abysmal marketplace failures.

- Attempting to force excrement like Cortana, their "cloud" service crap, the shitty Windows store, subscriptions, etc. down user's throats by basically attempting to tie them into the OS.
- For good measure, rename what should really just be called Internet Explorer 12 into Edge, and act like people won't notice.
- Spyware ingrained into the OS on every level, and sticking basically advertisement shit right onto the miniaturized start screen that they are trying to pass off as a start menu.
- Holding DirectX 12 hostage, because most power users would otherwise not bother upgrading from Windows 7. Then basically backporting the Spyware into Windows 7 in an attempt to get the holdouts to say "I may as well upgrade since they're spying on me anyway.

This is the same shit that almost got MS broken up in 2000. They should have been broken up then, had justice actually been done. The United States no longer has the cojones to go after Microsoft again, but I hope that the EU catches on and smacks MS down hard for this. Not holding my breath though.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

Start > Settings > System > Notifications & actions > Scroll down to "Show notifications from these apps" > Get Office > Off.

The real issue isn't so much the telemetry, it's: "Why is there a 'Get Office' app in my OS anyways?"

Let's call it what it is: when it was "Get Bonzi Buddy" or "Install The Ask Jeeves Toolbar!" it was malware. The "Get Office" app is also malware, and the people who designed it, developed it, and ordered its incorporation into the OS should all be shunned.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Insightful!

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[kheldan]

St Fu and install Linux.

I'm still running XP on a >10 year old desktop that's still healthy, and at this point in time I have absolutely zero intention of upgrading the OS for any reason. If the box dies and I have to rebuild it, it'll have some flavor of Linux on it, and damn the consequences. The one or two applications I have that don't have a Linux version will just have to run through WINE I guess. I'm not putting up with this bullshit. Microsoft can go fuck themselves.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

GP probably purchased a pre-built PC from Best Buy, loaded with whatever Bloatware they felt like cramming in there. I have Win10 installed on a PC at home as well, and haven't seen anything obnoxious.

That's not to say that Win10 isn't subversive... quite the opposite. The telemetry crap is a bad bad idea. But it's quiet, as all good recon operations are.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

I installed clean from update and first thing that little shit did was to install candy crush

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[sjames]

Google "Get Office Notifications" and you'll see that plenty of people ARE getting those notifications. Perhaps you have a different edition or missed an update.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Harlequin80]

I know this is stupid. But one of the things I don't like about Windows 10 is how it talks to me. Christ I must be getting old but I HATE the fake "I'm trying to talk to you like a friend" language that seems to pervade the system.

One that actually made my blood boil was the "restart needed due to updates" language. I'm paraphrasing here but it was something like "Hi, I need to schedule a restart of windows to complete the upgrade. I was think about a time you don't really seem to use your computer much. How does 3am sound?"

I obviously have some wiring wrong but that just annoys me so so much.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[goarilla]

Could be only the users of home edition have to endure that crap.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty sure the commentor is talking about the live tiles that are installed and active by default. I didn't take kindly to tiles showing me Justin Beiber tweets and Candy Crush Saga.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're not getting old. Anyone who thinks their PC is their "friend" is either an idiot or plain crazy. This isn't new, either. MS has been trying to do this sort of thing since the 1990s. (Microsoft Bob, Clippy, etc.) where they try to put these lame-ass interfaces in front of you that try to be cute and friendly, but actually make your system HARDER to use. Siri is generally useless fluff, and Cortana is a 5th. rate knockoff of THAT. So no... you're just having expected issues with Microsoft's retarded-ass designers. What you described provides a net NEGATIVE in usability, since the new Windows update actually removes features that were present in Windows 7.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Parafilmus]

Citations or screenshots please. I have Win10 on three PCs I use all the time and have not seen any of the bs you're talking about.

Is three citations enough? Or do you require more?

http://www.pcworld.com/article...

http://www.howtogeek.com/22632...

http://www.addictivetips.com/w...

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[goarilla]

I obviously have some wiring wrong but that just annoys me so so much.

Nobody likes condescending language. And why does the notification center need to bleep because it's "adding new features".

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

I can attest to the "Hey try out office 365" notification (I keep closing and it keeps coming back) and the pushing of the microsoft store. Also not mentioned, use edge start dialog to search for firefox and get told you should really just keep using edge instead of that madness you seem to be thinking of doing.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Gallefray]

I take it you didn't read the slashdot post, then?

gHacks points out that the updates will ignore any previous user preferences reporting: "These four updates ignore existing user preferences
stored in Windows 7 and Windows 8 (including any edits made to the Hosts file) and immediately starts exchanging user data with
vortex-win.data.microsoft.com and settings-win.data.microsoft.com.

From what I've read (Do correct me if I am incorrect) it will automatically install these updates (AFAIK that is what the sentence 'ignor[ing] existing user preferences' implies).

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[nicolastheadept]

Right click the tile. Uninstall.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

except for XBox would be rightfully be abysmal marketplace failures.

Actually, xbox is kind of an abysmal marketplace failure. It's prominent, sure, but business wise it has consistently operated in the red most if its lifetime. There were a flurry of stories when it transitioned into running in the black a few quarters at the height of the success of the 360 (note only black for those quarters, never making up the historic losses), but then went back into the red.

Attempting to force excrement like Cortana, their "cloud" service crap, the shitty Windows store, subscriptions, etc. down user's throats by basically attempting to tie them into the OS.

I'm with you, but Google and Apple both do the exact anti-consumer thing. MS is actually mild by comparison (try getting/using an off-the-shelf android or ios device without tying it to an account on the respective vendor services).

For good measure, rename what should really just be called Internet Explorer 12 into Edge, and act like people won't notice.

To be fair, they actually did break a fair amount of backwards compatibility, to the point of keeping IE installed too. So IE12 would have been a misleading name actually. sure it's a big branding exercise too, but a product rename isn't something I'm going to cry 'evil' over.

Spyware ingrained into the OS on every level, and sticking basically advertisement shit right onto the miniaturized start screen that they are trying to pass off as a start menu.

Agreed (and yes it can be turned off, but one shouldn't have to).

Holding DirectX 12 hostage, because most power users would otherwise not bother upgrading from Windows 7. Then basically backporting the Spyware into Windows 7 in an attempt to get the holdouts to say "I may as well upgrade since they're spying on me anyway.

Hard to say. Something like a major DX change may have some stuff tied into the driver model change which is a big kernel change which is more than enterprise windows 7 users may want to have their deployments messed with. But low blow on the telemetry stuff anyway.

In short, they are being bad actors, but they are being encouraged with how much of this crap Google and Apple have gotten away with. The pitchforks and torches should already be out for those companies, and it's unfair to solely get pissed at MS for these tactics.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

"I'm sorry, Harlequin80, but I can't do that. You are experiencing an error. Please remain calm."

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Sarten-X]

Nope.

I installed the pro edition via the upgrade offer from Win7. I got the "Get Office" app preinstalled, and it periodically advertises Office 365.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Harlequin80]

I'm not even sure it is particularly condescending as it is overly familiar / fake. It is also the pretending my machine is a person.....

Actually I just went and found the exact wording. "We'll schedule a restart during a time you usually don't use your device (right now 3:30 AM tomorrow looks good)."

Firstly, who the fuck is we? Is this like the royal We? Or does the fact that my computer has a multi-core cpu now mean that it has multiple personas inside that need to agree and they are on a par with humans?

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Teckla]

GP probably purchased a pre-built PC from Best Buy, loaded with whatever Bloatware they felt like cramming in there. I have Win10 installed on a PC at home as well, and haven't seen anything obnoxious.

Fresh install of Windows 8.1 after I swapped mechanical hard drive for SSD. I downloaded the Windows 8.1 ISO from Microsoft.

The Windows 10 install was the automated one. The Office 365 notification app is well known on the Intarwebz. Google it.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Teckla]

Right click the tile. Uninstall.

When I researched the Office 365 advertisement notifications in Windows, I came across quite a few people saying that Windows Update was reinstalling the "Get Office 365" app and re-enabling the advertisement notifications. They suggested leaving it installed and just turning off notifications for it.

Anyway, my problem is solved, thanks. I'm more worried about Microsoft appearing to go back to their old, obnoxious, anti-competitive, monopolistic behavior.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[bondsbw]

It would be silly today to go after Microsoft for that kind of thing, when so many other companies in the computing/web technology space are blatantly guilty of the same or worse. Microsoft no longer has a monopoly related to consumer computing devices; the only real monopoly they still have is in the enterprise.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[cfalcon]

The fact that someone, somewhere, sucks worse is not a defense. Also, no other company is:
1- As far reaching.
2- Trusted with as many DESKTOP (read, vastly more important than "some webapp" or "some phone") hardwarez.

Microsoft doing this is vastly worse than when other companies do it. Especially because almost everyone bitching about this actually uses Windows to at least some degree, and often doesn't use the other things, or carefully monitors their exposure to them. No safe computing will save you from a malicious OS.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

Being beaten in the mobile market has made Microsoft paranoid about "falling behind and becoming irrelevant".

Ever since computers came out companies have been pushing updates and in general getting businesses to spend lots of money on things that do not deliver real value to the business. The objective there is to get management to feel completely insecure or wanton for the next big thing and to buy it. The market largely is not falling for such shenanigans anymore and that makes them desperate and dangerous.

Used to be a time you needed to know about filesystems and structures and the systems were kept easy to understand; now you just need a MCSE just to attempt to understand what is going on under the hood, and that's when they don't drill you on knowing the frankly completely useless GUI. I prefer to memorize .cpl and .msc applets any day plus the nato phonetic alphabet, haven't had to memorize anything new in years. "Hold down the windows key and R, type on November Charlie Papa Alpha Dot Charlie Papa Lima and hit enter, now right click on local area connection, hit properties"....

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[cfalcon]

> Citations or screenshots please.

Fuck off citation-needer AC shill. It is well documented that these things are an absolute shit parade. At this point, the burden of proof is on any apologists.

But, here's some articles, shillfuck!

The lockscreen assault...
http://www.extremetech.com/com...
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4...

OP claimed that he's getting advertised Office. You claim he needs proof. While this debate rages, here's tutorial on how to make Microsoft STOP advertising Office. Which, of fucking COURSE it does.

http://www.howtogeek.com/22632...

Presumably, the "Get Skype" app is the one to disable to stop the Skype stuff he complains about.

Oh, and if you NEED Skype, here's how to disable ads in Skype. Uh, this worked a year ago? I don't know if it is current.
http://community.skype.com/t5/...

Shills shilling, shills shilling, shills shilling.....

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[cfalcon]

Given that there are fucking tutorials on how to stop the ads, and you don't know why you DON'T see them, it's reasonable to assume that:

a)- They exist
b)- They aren't on YOUR box for some reason.
c)- Since you can't tell him how he got them, nor did you link how to disable them, you don't really know what you are talking about. For all we know, you won a fucking coin flip at install.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[cfalcon]

Does anyone think it's fucked that you have to one-by-one disable advertisements in their OS now?

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Harlequin80]

I've actually struggled a bit with using win10 but I think that was because I didn't use win 8 at all so had no training in the metro stuff. Work is 100% linux and I use mint as my main work horse at home. That said it means my expectations of windows are very low, turn on, start steam, play game, shutdown. I just decided to install it because I could.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Leslie43]

I can vouch for this, it re-installed on me.
It loves to re-install things you remove.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[MrL0G1C]

Firstly, who the fuck is we? Is this like the royal We?

Microsoft and the NSA ;-)

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[grim4593]

Perhaps the singularity has come and we just don't know it yet.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[jbmartin6]

These are optional updates, I don't know what this 'ignore existing user preferences' means here. At least on workstations. I found they automatically install on server versions of Windows that use Windows Update.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Jeremi]

Or does the fact that my computer has a multi-core cpu now mean that it has multiple personas inside that need to agree and they are on a par with humans?

"Windows 10: Your computer, run by committee"

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Pikoro]

How to disable those apps:
This article focuses on Cortana but the end shows other apps to disable as well. Basically not uninstalling them so much as renaming the app folder after killing the process:

http://init.sh/?p=251

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Jeremi]

I'm still running XP on a >10 year old desktop that's still healthy, and at this point in time I have absolutely zero intention of upgrading the OS for any reason. If the box dies and I have to rebuild it, it'll have some flavor of Linux on it, and damn the consequences.

I hear you. You might consider converting the XP box to a virtual machine, so that if/when the hardware dies you can still run the OS on other hardware.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[seededfury]

http://www.howtogeek.com/22479...

Uninstall Store: Get-AppxPackage *windowsstore* | Remove-AppxPackage

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[lgw]

You already had to opt-out of "customer experience improvement program", or Microsoft was already sending a list of all your creditcard numbers, sexual fetishes, any embarrassing medical history, and social security number back home to the mothership, unencrypted no doubt. That's the setting this will apparently ignore.

I've really been surprised by all this. Maybe that's silly of me, but for the first year or so of the new CEO he really seemed customer-focused, walking back a bunch of stupid anti-customer decisions. I guess that was temporary.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Ramze]

Do you already have a version of Office? Maybe it only nags those without a copy installed. I have Win 10 on multiple laptops. It took a month or two, but surely enough -- office 365 pop up in the notifications tray on all of them. I turned off those notifications the second they started. It could have been from an update (wouldn't be the first time they put a nag notification on my tray -- that's how I got Win10 to start with from the Win8 upgrade nag tray icon)

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Destructo-Bot]

The "ignoring existing users preferences" refers to the Windows Consumer Experience Reports you can opt into on prior versions of Windows before 10. If you have this set to not report to Microsoft, the new updates will report to Microsoft regardless of that setting. The actual updates themselves are selected to install by default, but if the user is paying attention they can deselect and hide those particular updates in Windows Updater before running that round of updates. They don't get installed automatically unless you've told Windows to handle patching autonomously.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[RyoShin]

They should make it like the voice in the LCARs system (I think that's part of the system). A nice voice with short, informative statements. And a million Star Trek fans would love it.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[rawtatoor]

How about not even once? UPDATE MICROSOFT

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[gl4ss]

just a question.

do you already have skype and office 365? or have logged into either with the ms user you're using for windows?

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[hairyfeet]

You are incorrect, the "ignore user preferences" is talking about blocking the calling home via HOSTS or Windows Firewall rules, but all of the above updates are OPTIONAL updates, don't install anything in the optional update column? You won't have to worry about getting "Win 10'd" on Win 7.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[ITRambo]

Yup. That worked. I already have Office 365 but still has the Get Office app installed, until I followed your suggestion.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[ITRambo]

Yes. Microsoft has pushed my assessment of its OS from "annoying" in Windows 8 to "fucked up" in Windows 10.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[ITRambo]

Check the All Apps list. That's where I right clicked and deleted Get Skype and Get Office (or whatever it was called - it's gone).

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[ITRambo]

They're only minor annoyances when they don't come back after being deleted. At that point they're a pain in the ass.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Z00L00K]

Aside from uninstalling the patches that starts this intrusion behavior maybe someone can create an app that sends faked data to their backend systems contaminating the data store?

The best is if the data injected is somewhat plausible though - like everyone running the "Windows Classic" theme.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Gaygirlie]

Check the All Apps list. That's where I right clicked and deleted Get Skype and Get Office (or whatever it was called - it's gone).

The person I replied to wrote rather clearly "Windows 10 has reminded me repeatedly" -- that's not quite the same as you, yourself, having to deliberately go and find such items in the first place. Besides, I don't see what it matters if those items are there if I'm not going to be using either of them anyways.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Evtim]

There was an old joke from communist times.

"Why do we need two layer toilet paper?"
"One layer for you , the other for the KGB archive"

After the changes

"The toilet paper now has 3 layers!"
"It's for your comfort and the extra copy for the NSA archive"

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Z00L00K]

Just report this to all the AV companies out there to get all these obnoxious things listed as unwanted applications.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Z00L00K]

The first Anti-Virus company that offers tools to detect, disable and clean out these "features" will be a great winner - I'd be willing to pay for that.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Jahf]

I installed win 10 Pro as an upgrade last week from 7 Ultimate. Then I did a clean install after just to be as meticulous as possible. I don't know whether the office 365 ad was in the first round after upgrading, but I guarantee it's there on the fresh install.

I fresh installed with as many of the privacy options disabled as initial setup allows. Office 365 notification ad still appeared. I was able to go into notification preferences and disable the notification later on. Not a big deal but yes, it is done in a way many normal users won't quickly find. And I do have the "get Skype" apps.

Did you ever do a fresh install of final version or just upgrades? I wouldn't be surprised to find that they never would have shown if I'd just done the upgrade and not nuked it after for a fresh install.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[kheldan]

When it comes down to that I'll probably just jump ship completely and start using some flavor of Linux instead, with the one or two must-have applications that are Windows-only running out of WINE or something.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Zibodiz]

As a message balloon above the system tray. And if you block it from starting in task manager, it will re-enable itself a week or so later. I've seen the "Buy 365! Buy and xBox!" messages more than once each. I already use Skype, so I don't get those nags. I'm also registered for Bing rewards, so I don't see those either, but I've no doubt they exist.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[MrDoh!]

You will. One machine (win7 upgrade), no messages at all, all the others, yeah, the 365, the store, the 'new features to windows 10' (really? a couple of weeks after installing, NOW you're telling me all the cool things I've already been using?). The notifications window could/SHOULD be a thing of wonder, same as it works on Android, but I suspect it's going to be the next vector for mass amounts of spam (that Android USED to get until better controls for managing were added, MS will get around to it eventually). Not seen the Bing message yet though, maybe a bit more time.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[MrDoh!]

Ah, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I can't be 100% sure, but I think it's the machines without Office on that have been a bit more spammy. I'll keep an eye out to see if this holds up.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[ihtoit]

(OP here): I had AU set to install critical updates ONLY, I got hammered with the GWX crap, I've posted elsewhere and elsewhen a tutorial on how to disable it (involves killing automatic updates and doing some actual research into what new updates are actually critical security patches), it's a tedious process I'm glad to not be doing thirty times a day on clients machines, but I've just said that I have no doubt the money would be really useful right now, I'm burying my mum next week. :(

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[SuricouRaven]

10 is crap, but it's still a lot better than 8. The interface is actually usable.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[adhdengineer]

I'll post as non AC and call bullshit on the advertisements. I havent seen a single thing like the OP is suggests. Perhaps there is a tile on the start menu that does it but since i cleaned my start down and only have tiles for stuff i want (and re-enabled the win8 full screen start too since it's bigger (hence better)) there's no way i'd see those..

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Required Snark]

No matter what they call it, when they move to a subscription model it will be the de facto Windows 11. That is why Windows 10 is "free", and why they say that it will not be a long term version. It's to clear the deck so fewer people will try and hang on to their old non-subscription versions. Then the hammer will come down.

I keep trying to point this out, but nobody seems to notice. Everyone will be squealing like stuck pigs, but it shouldn't be any surprise when it happens.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[goarilla]

Reminds me of all the stupid ISP's Internet portals back in the 90s that also tried to "ease" people into the world wide web.
Or all those school documentaries that were 3 decades out of date even when they were being made.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[inasity_rules]

You are incorrect. The updates will ignore previous settings, but will only auto install if you have let Microsoft manage your updates.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Xest]

Yeah, I'd like to know too given that I've also seen no such adverts on either of my systems.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[reikae]

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't remove the Get Office and Skype apps right away. I uninstalled them immediately after install and haven't seen any ads. Also Windows Update or Store or whatever has not reinstalled them. Seems reasonable to assume that not everyone (including citation-needer person) has problems with these ads.

I wouldn't mind getting paid by MS for writing this but I doubt that will happen.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[reikae]

But how would you know if MS just included the telemetry updates in the cumulative IE update, for example? We're both placing tremendous trust in MS just by running their OSes.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[AmiMoJo]

I'm not sure what you expected. As far back as Windows 95 they were shipping adverts on the desktop, installed by default. Probably before then, but I wasn't using Microsoft software that far back. Mostly crappy dial-up ISPs that went out of business a few years later, so the pre-installed software didn't even work any more.

I'm not saying it isn't a shitty thing to do, I'm just saying that it's hardly surprising. XP and Vista had MSN links... Maybe 7 was clean, I forget now. 8 tried to make you sign in with a Microsoft account unless you ripped the network cable out during installation. Microsoft has form, everyone should know this.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Yes, there is trust involved, and Microsoft have been straining that trust recently with some of the updates they've pushed out.

Even so, actively misrepresenting an update as you described in order to get spyware installed would be a good way to alienate large parts of the business community, attract the attention of government privacy regulators here in Europe, find yourself on the wrong end of lawsuits and/or regulatory investigations, and potentially even find your staff criminally liable for unauthorised access to computer systems if the authorities wanted to make a point.

I personally don't like Microsoft's new corporate strategy, and that's why I've chosen not to switch to Windows 10, but I don't think they are stupid enough to deliberately pull the kind of bait-and-switch you described. There are far too many ways it ends very badly for them in PR, regulatory, legal and financial terms.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[master_kaos]

IM not sure about all that, but I have gotten notfications within windows systray to try free 1 month trial of office 365. Also the start menu often seems to be advertising the windows store & xbox products

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Angeret]

They don't give you correct information in the KB description - just the generic security update or stability message - so unless you keep a list of the KB numbers it can be hard to spot the rogue ones. A little naughty, that. The way I dealt with it was by doing the following...

In a Command shell:
    wusa /uninstall /kb:3068708 /norestart , wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /norestart , wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /norestart , wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /norestart

Services to check for & disable as required:
    Diagnostic Policy Service, Diagnostic Service Host, Diagnostic System Host, Diagnostics Tracking Service

Addresses to block in the router:
    vortex-win.data.microsoft.com & settings-win.data.microsoft.com

I dare them to show me bullshit ads or collect data now...

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[herve_masson]

> So far, Windows 10 has reminded me repeatedly that I should: (1) Consider getting Office 365! (2) Consider installing Skype! (3) Should collect and use Bing Rewards! (4) That I should look into getting an Xbox! (5) That I should buy things from the Microsoft Store!

So far, windows has reminded me to install linux.

I kind of liked seven, was not entirely hateful against win8, but win10 is a no-go for me after giving it a try for the last 2 weeks. Very disapointed indeed. This telemetry shit is just one more thing I don't want to fight. Hunting for ways to disable/uninstall on windows sucks; I've better way to use my time and nerves. And thanks to have set EDGE as my default browser. No big deal, just a nice way to show how much you care about people choices.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Minwee]

Many Windows 8 systems shipped with a "Get Office" application which, if you run it, offers you a trial version and exhorts you to buy the full service. Windows 10 integrates previously functional applications like the video player with XBox-branded apps which show you more logos than ever before and tries to direct you to the Microsoft store to purchase additional licenses which are naturally far superior to whatever it is that you were originally trying to do. The Store app is placed prominently on the desktop or taskbar, inviting unsuspecting users to buy the latest version of MineCandyCrushBirds and pushing the installation of others apps such as Skype. The default browser and home page are used to push the puzzling "Bing" service, which appears to be some kind of combination of search engine and multi-level marketing business. I haven't quite figured that one out yet.

So all of the bullshit described does exist, and can reasonably be expected to be present on a newly purchased computer with Windows 10. That doesn't mean that Satya Nadella is going to sneak into your living room and force you to watch all of the advertising, much of it is hidden away waiting for you to start looking for something else before it pops up, but it is all there.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Joce640k]

Both. Microsoft added features to make it easy for crapware to exist.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[Minwee]

No, you're not getting old. Anyone who thinks their PC is their "friend" is either an idiot or plain crazy.

Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend. Any suggestion to the contrary is treason.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[HideyoshiJP]

That language bothers me as well. It not only sounds vague, but also condescending and non-authoritative. My computer didn't need to be "friendlier."

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[hairyfeet]

Here is how you solve THAT problem, which just FYI the "Get Win10" was placed for a time in the "critical" which caused a big stink, here ya go....Autopatcher which you can carry on a stick or deploy from a network share.

Sorry about your mum, I buried my dad in May. I wish I can tell you it gets better but ya know what? It really doesn't.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[iampiti]

You mean the higher-ups and marketing people? Cause they're the ones to decide what ultimately gets installed on the device.
Microsoft have wanted to become Google for a long time. Now it seems they're succeding, at least in the bad things: An OS which bombards you with advertisements and pushes you to use many services from the maker company: Microsoft accounts, OneDrive, Cortana, Bing, Windows Store ...
I don't like it on Android, but it's not the end of the world since I don't use my smartphone for serious computing, but doing that to the PC... After 7 stops working (drivers and many programs won't work on it) I don't know what I'm going to use.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[kmoser]

The best is if the data injected is somewhat plausible though - like everyone running the "Windows Classic" theme.

How about data indicating constant slowdowns, freezes, and BSODs? Then they will *never* be able to distinguish it from real data!

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[LuniticusTheSane]

Could be, I have Office 2003.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[LuniticusTheSane]

I have neither, I do have an ancient copy of Office 2003.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[LuniticusTheSane]

I did an upgrade from 7 Home to 10 Home.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[LuniticusTheSane]

I know people are getting them, the point is to pin down how not to.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[mattventura]

I wonder if Enterprise lacks some of the annoyances? It seems to be the only edition where you can actually disable telemetry via Group Policy, and I don't think corporate customers would want advertisements tossed in their employees' faces.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[mattventura]

I think what it means is that it ignores the user's telemetry settings, but you might still be right. I just uninstalled the telemetry updates and hid the windows 10 update, and conveniently the next time I checked windows update it lost all my windows update settings like which updates I hid (even ones I hid a long time ago).

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[niftymitch]

surely they know what they're doing and it's all for a better customer experience.

Oh, absolutely! Windows 10 is great!

So far, Windows 10 has reminded me repeatedly that I should: (1) Consider getting Office 365! (2) Consider installing Skype! (3) Should collect and use Bing Rewards! ..... *sigh*

This lazy roll out of invasive features is interesting.
There is a bait and switch aspect to it and I need to look a lot harder
at the EULA.

Tied to hardware and a dynamic EULA could be foundations for a class action
based on time and effort at the going rate. With a minimum wage and a requirement
to pay healthcare benefits after 30 some hours that adds up a lot. Another class of
engineers and companies billed at $200+/hour for jumping through hoops that were
not ordered.

For me as an early access person I can see a lot of cruft.
For me as an engineer I can see a lot of reason for a company IT department
to require rather invasive introspective tools.

So far all I have seen from MS is the beginning of something that could prove
very interesting.

Some here will recall the roll out of SELinux and that the initial policy was too
darn hobbling. Then targeted policy surfaced and a lot more folk use that.

Others may disagree but since Win-NT MS has had a technical foundation
to deliver a reasonably security model that could be liked by industry.
Business folk did like VMS for the security and audit model. End users did not
except where the IT department payed attention and responded to alarms
and requests. Not so much for home PC users...

The last Win-10 insider update did have a plethora of new things. The internals
are opaque and changes to policy vs. mechanism could prove interesting. Designing
and delivering a solid policy that end users can live with is a challenge.

I have always enabled SELinux... sometimes permissive, sometimes targeted, sometimes full standard policy.
Security policy is difficult....

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[srmalloy]

It would be fun to see Microsoft hauled up in court for keylogging computers at a hospital. I wonder how many HIPAA violations all the telemetry would accumulate in a single eight-hour workday on just one computer.

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[cloudmaster]

I also installed Windows 10 through the early adopter / developer program thing, and have not seen any of that crap (though the start tiles sure show enough other garbage that I don't care about). It's presumably an OEM load thing? /logging in for the first time in months just to avoid the anon post

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[mcswell]

I'm still on Win7, and at home I use LibreOffice. But the latest from MsOffice (on my work PC) is "We did(n't)...", like "We didn't find anything" when I do a search for some text in Outlook. This is like the stereotypical nurse. Why can't they just use passive voice? "Nothing found."

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[david_thornley]

I saw something on Computerworld (so you can consider the source) that said that less than half of the browser usage from Windows 10 users was Edge.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[beastofburdon]

I have been saying very similar things and have been called all sorts of conspiracy theorist related names for it.
That is okay though, I will be the one laughing when Windows 10 is upgraded to simply Windows as a forced update.
I will be telling them to kiss my ass when they come to me complaining that their computer is telling them they have to pay in order to use it.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[beastofburdon]

Hell, I would pay for that, and I have only payed for such one time in my life(and greatly regretted it, fuck Norton).

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[Anonymous Coward]

What baffles me the most about it is that they're listed as 'important' updates.

Up yours, Microsoft. My computer accidentally installed these just because I had automatic updates enabled. They don't even list their proper function in the updates screen. They're just listed as "Update for Windows 7", and the description is "Install this update to resolve issues in Windows".

"Issues in windows"? Like what? That my computer isn't serving Microsoft as if they're my dark lord or something?

And the worst part is that they call that "Opt-in"! I can't imagine what their idea of "Opt-out" is if automatically installing the update for you with the recommended settings is "Opt-in".

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[metrix007]

Jesus christ you're an idiot. Paid shills wouldn't waste time on slashdot.

Fucking retard.

Re:Oh, they're a big company,

[nu1x]

No, they will not.

Expected user behaviour if you want to maintain your system is review what each and individual update does (KB article) and having identified all Windows 7 upgrade and telemetry updates, unchecking them, and hiding them (right click / hide update).

Works fine with me. Woe be unto he who does not know which exact updates are malicious, because if you allow one, they will be possible to purge only with specialized 3rd party apps (yes there are such apps).

Re: Oh, they're a big company,

[nu1x]

I'll have you know that /. is still one of the premier tech info forums.

There are no more notable forums of that size, AND paid shills post ON FUCKING 4CHAN. /. >> 4chan when it comes to tech info.

So, all your points are m00t and void.

You speak like a shill.

Run for the Penguin

[fluffernutter]

I'm going Linux as soon as I have a chance. Currently enjoying Linux Mint /w Cinnamon for general use.

Re:Run for the Penguin

[jones_supa]

What kind of data does Linux Mint with Cinnamon send?

Re:Run for the Penguin

[Rasperin]

It's an AC it's FUD.

Re:Run for the Penguin

[TheGratefulNet]

What kind of data does Linux Mint with Cinnamon send?

dunno, maybe christmas greetings?

Re:Run for the Penguin

[Austerity Empowers]

The #1 thing they will see on my telemetry is me installing cygwin.

Re:Run for the Penguin

[bigfinger76]

More like "going from the apples to the oranges". Nice try.

Re:Run for the Penguin

[strikethree]

I'm going Linux as soon as I have a chance. Currently enjoying Linux Mint /w Cinnamon for general use.

I installed Server 2008 R2 to escape this shit and when browsing the latest "optional" updates, I noticed this telemetry shit (updated!) being offered. Nothing from Microsoft is safe now.

So yeah, I was dabbling with Linux Mint Cinnamon a while ago but when I would play my games, I could notice lost frames. I tried KDE, Mate, etc. but meh.

So they released a new version of Cinnamon just before they released Mint 17.2. If you disabled compositing for full screen games, the frame loss was gone. I now use Linux Mint Cinnamon for EVERYTHING except GTA V.

(Oddly, DOTA is even smoother under Linux than under Windows.)

I mention games because you already covered using it for general use: Email, browsing the web, writing scripts/programs, making spreadsheets (for Eve Online), etc.

Linux is desktop ready until SystemD fully takes over.

Re:Run for the Penguin

[metrix007]

Are you retarded? Being AC means jack all as to the quality of the comment.

Time to switch to Linux...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I stick with Windows 7 Pro and prevent those updates from installing, will I still have a "private" Windows 7? I'm working on software that might compete with Microsoft & don't want them to fetch it as part of their "diagnostics"...

Re:Time to switch to Linux...

[arth1]

There will be new "updates" from Microsoft, so, no, unless you go examine every update thoroughly in a VM or something before installing, or stay at your current patch level forever, you're not safe.

My question is how much of this is Microsoft's own idea and how much is being pushed by NSA. Windows 10 consumer versions not having the ability to turn off automatic updates, for example, seems like it's tailor made for the three letter agencies to use to install "special" updates on targeted computers - quite possibly those that show specific files or keywords in "telemetry" searches.

Backing away from Microsoft seems sensible, but it's not going to solve the problem of a police state with panopticon wet dreams.

Re:Time to switch to Linux...

[labnet]

I've just watched this documentary
https://youtu.be/U1Qt6a-vaNM
and it just reminds me how evil this is, and how we should be resisting it. If we could be bothered that is.

Re:Time to switch to Linux...

[labnet]

I agree AC. Everyone, including the guy who made this doc have an agenda that bends facts, but nonetheless, I feel like a pawn in a very large game run by sociopaths.

Re:Time to switch to Linux...

[beastofburdon]

Don't forget about the psychopaths! The sociopaths just have very little empathy for you, the psychopaths are the ones who want to control your every thought or murder you for "thought crime."

Fuck Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure that I won't be alone in having thiose feelings

Dear Sataya,
    My computer is MY COMPUTER. Not yours. Not Yours to suck data from. Not yours to suck data from to sell to Advertisers.

I have stopped using any of your products and will NEVER ever use them again until you change your data slurping policy.

Yours,
    An Ex Microsoft developer.

Re:Fuck Microsoft

[amiga3D]

No, Microsoft Fucks you!

Re:Fuck Microsoft

[Stormwatch]

In Soviet America...

Re:Fuck Microsoft

[newbie_fantod]

...die in a fire you fucking paytards.

Pay?

Re:Fuck Microsoft

[bondsbw]

I hope you aren't the IT manager at my company. If so, I'm leaving.

There's no way I'm going to work for a company whose IT manager has such a knee-jerk and uninformed reaction. If you truly believed Linux was the right tool for the job, you would have switched well before now for numerous other reasons. And you wouldn't be recommending an EOL operating system like XP. And for that matter you wouldn't be pirating any software, because that is about as unprofessional as you can get and you put your company at serious legal risk.

You really aren't an IT manager, you would know better. Either that or you are one of the guys that tend to show up in the stories on http://thedailywtf.com/.

Re:Fuck Microsoft

[HideyoshiJP]

Yours, An Ex Microsoft developer, and a HideyoshiJP.

XP

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew there was a reason I kept Windows XP.

Re:XP

[kheldan]

tinfoil hat reply: Cant turn of update on the xp machine

Apparently someone doesn't understand how to disable a service in Windows. Or, somehow failing that, Deny 'read and execute' privs for System for the affected files. Or, if you want the real Nuclear option, hack the registry to remove the Automatic Updates service completely from the OS. Don't tell me it can't be done, either, because I've done all the above at one point or another. In Win10? Couldn't tell you if it'd work, or if it'l slap your hand and put everything back. I won't know, either, because I wont touch it with a ten foot pole.

Re: XP

[pixelite]

I stopped updates on my win8 pc soon after the win10 fiasco in the previous weeks. today my install was suddenly not activated. It claimed my serial was used on another pc when I tried to reactivate. I had to call the automated system to reactivate. Im still on the fence as to whether this was related to the updates or if my system was actually infected. Do you have any further insight into the matter for me?

Re: XP

[kheldan]

Well, if that's really true then that's the final deal-breaker. No way I'm putting up with nonsense like that.

Re:Suicide

[fluffernutter]

I'd rather send Microsoft my dick size than go to Apple.

Fuck Microsoft

[AndyKron]

What the fuck? Fuck you Microsoft!

Re:Can't wait for this flamefest to start...

[Anonymous Coward]

One needs to select between the spyware and systemd, I have honestly no idea which of those is lesser evil.

Re:Suicide

[jones_supa]

Why?

Firewall

[amiga3D]

Can't these addresses simply be blocked in the firewall?

Re:Firewall

[yuhong]

gHacks article was later updated to mention that.

Re:Firewall

[chill]

Yup. Or as hosts entries in your router, assuming it serves DNS up.

The article says they ignore /etc/hosts, but that is on the Windows PC itself. A wifi router running dd-wrt and using dnsmasq reads the hosts file of the router before passing queries on up the chain.

Go to the Administrative tab, then the Commands sub-tab and enter:

echo "127.0.0.2 vortex-win.data.microsoft.com settings-win.data.microsoft.com" >> /etc/hosts

Then run the command. Of course, this is assuming your DNS entries on your PCs are set to your local router and not something else like Google's DNS or your ISP's DNS.

Re:Firewall

[stooo]

Yep. Until they change. Or until you take the laptop out without your firewall box. Or until MS goes past your crappy windows based firewall. etc. etc. etc...
Just use Linux.

Re:Firewall

[epyT-R]

Your options are limited if you can't trust the network stack in the OS to do your bidding. One relatively safe way might be to block direct connectivity at the router and set up a secure proxy on the lan for use by non-microsoft browsers and anything else that needs connectivity. Windows won't have direct net access but firefox will work fine. Of course, this would require the rest of your networked software to support the secure proxy as well (most games don't for instance).

Otherwise, the dns and ip blocks could be defeated at any time with new updates regardless if done in etc/hosts or on the router.

Re:Firewall

[Pinky's Brain]

Until they change the addresses, or simply pipe the telemetry through the windows update connection

Re:Firewall

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

That was my first thought. Looks like I'll soon be adding two new entries on my pfsense box. None of my Win7 boxes are acting up, I'm assuming because everything is the "Enterprise" version and already has Office on all the boxes. It's all legit too, thanks to my work-provided MSDN account. Honestly, I've probably got thousands of dollars of MS software installed in my home lab, when you include the servers with Hyper-V, 2012, SCCM, SCOM, etc. I try and stay away from "Home" editions mostly because I don't do customer support anymore. Telling people "oh, I only do corp apps" has saved me many headaches from end-users who think "hey, can you fix this?" is a good way to start a one-sided friendship.

Re:Firewall

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

my DNS is on a 2012 box, that syncs on Gandi for my hosted pages, and my firewall has an entry that refers to the external IP I've assigned to that DNS and then Google as a secondary. I'm actually surprised it all works with how circular I've made it...but that's just what happens when a chaos magickian also is the network admin.

Re:Firewall

[tepples]

Or until you take the laptop out [...] Just use Linux.

If you can find a laptop you like that comes with a guarantee of Linux compatibility.

Re:Firewall

[chill]

dd-wrt uses dnsmasq, not bind.

Re:Firewall

[jd659]

There's a great package available for dd-wrt called pixelserv. It's a basic web server that returns a single pixel image for unwanted resources through dns-poisoning. Combined with a list of tracking hosts it cuts ads and tracking (even youtube ads are removed) and none show in /. The package comes with a blank whitelist and a blacklist that affects the default list of unwanted ad/tracking websites. Runs on any router, even a 10-year-old Linksys 54G.

Re:Firewall

[Maow]

Yup. Or as hosts entries in your router, assuming it serves DNS up.

I'm curious and don't have anything to test with, but does Win 10 use DNS to find its call-home locations, or are the IP addresses hard-coded?

Since, if the latter, of course changing hosts file won't help regardless of where one does it.

Re:Firewall

[SuricouRaven]

Yes, but it has to be an external firewall, which most home users do not have. I've tried blocking with the Windows 10 firewall functionality, but it doesn't work - as best I can figure out, Windows own services are exempt from the firewall. Even if I set it to default deny and give it just one rule that says deny everything, I still see the traffic.

I do have a list of IP ranges though: http://pastebin.com/KFXwrj4F

Re:Firewall

[stooo]

Yes, I can.

Re:Firewall

[Required Snark]

If they hardwire, there could be a DDOS attack. One can only hope...

Re:Firewall

[fgouget]

Yup. Or as hosts entries in your router, assuming it serves DNS up.

Right. And as soon as you use your laptop away from home all the queued up reports will go through!

Re:Firewall

[tepples]

If so, then which 10" or 11.6" laptop does stooo recommend for use with X11/Linux?

Re:Firewall

[epyT-R]

I've been running linux since 1997, but not exclusively. I do need (and want) software that really only works well on windows. Balancing ideals and pragmatics is a fact of life.

Re:Firewall

[stooo]

Lifebooks :)

Re:Firewall

[beastofburdon]

Thank you, I will be using this in the future.
For others here is a link to a HOWTO: http://www.howtogeek.com/51477...

waiting for the ddos

[Indy1]

against those 2 hosts M$ has setup to receive the data.

Or some script kiddies to figure out that format the data is in, and flood M$ with fake data :)

Re:waiting for the ddos

[sosume]

So you're claiming that telemetry data for hundreds of millions of users, made by the largest software company, who owns the second largest computing cloud, has just two hosts assigned for collecting that data. That is totally credible.

Re:waiting for the ddos

[WaffleMonster]

Rest assured that those two names are not served by "2 hosts", but handled by a load balanced and geographically diverse fleet of servers. Do you really believe knowing two host names gives you any advantage whatsoever?

I think the DDOS is already happening with operators everywhere blocking microsoft.com domains from name servers they control for the sake of their users.

$ ping vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
ping: unknown host vortex-win.data.microsoft.com

$ ping settings-win.data.microsoft.com
ping: unknown host settings-win.data.microsoft.com

Next step I have a feeling will be working DDOS over layer 8+9 getting everyone off MS infrastructure as soon as possible.

Re:waiting for the ddos

[gweihir]

There is absolutely no problem with them having a 10GbE Card in there and, say 64 CPUs or so (and Linux or FreeBSD to handle that load ;-). There is also absolutely no problem with the IP address actually being that of load-balancers. So, yes, there are no technical reasons why the data from hundreds of millions of users cannot be sent to just 2 IP addresses.

Re:waiting for the ddos

[gweihir]

Something is wrong on your system. What you are seeing is a failure of DNS to resolve the host names, not the effects of a DDoS attack.

... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[QuietLagoon]

The more data harvesting Microsoft performs, the less helpful for me Windows becomes.

.
I have a notebook that is used mainly for web browsing and email. Linux Mint was installed on that notebook (replacing Windows 7) over this past weekend.

It's been a couple of years since I had looked into Linux Mint, and I was very surprised at how far it has come. While I foresee the need to do a few more tweaks with Linux Mint in order to make it more comfortable, I see no need to revert to Windows on this notebook.

What really pissed me off about the data harvesting that Microsoft is doing with these updates is how Microsoft callously has ignored any wishes I had previously stated regarding my preferences for not harvesting data from my computers.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[srmalloy]

"The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers."

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[sosume]

> What really pissed me off [..] is how Microsoft callously has ignored any wishes I had previously stated regarding my preferences [..]

Are you sure you used the correct e-mail address?

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[Anonymous Coward]

What really pissed me off about the data harvesting that Microsoft is doing with these updates is how Microsoft callously has ignored any wishes I had previously stated regarding my preferences for not harvesting data from my computers.

> "This package updates the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service to existing devices. This service provides benefits from the latest version of Windows to systems that have not yet upgraded."

Please, Microsoft, explain the benefits that are provided. You want to know why some of us wear tinfoil? Because words like "experience," "benefits," and "improvements" have been twisted into precisely the opposite of what they used to mean.

> Included in this update: ...Reduces the network connections on a Windows system that doesnâ(TM)t participate in the Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP).

If the customer has opted out, not one motherfucking byte should be transmitted. Not even the DNS query for the telemetry servers. What part of THE USER HAS OPTED OUT does Nadella not understand?

And just to amplify that "not one motherfucking byte" concept -- NSA doesn't give a shit about what I fap to, PLA doesn't give a shit about my 8-bit microcomputer geeking, and FSB doesn't give a shit that I think Putin is a dick -- the point remains that even things as innocuous as error reporting have been, and will continue to be, used as attack vectors by state-sponsored actors.

The user must, at all times, be able to make the tradeoff between usability and security, because once again, Microsoft has erred.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[by (1706743)]

Yeah, and what are you going to do about it?

He/she just said: "Linux Mint was installed on that notebook (replacing Windows 7) over this past weekend."

If enough people do this, then more computer manufacturers start offering boxes with no OS (or pre-loaded with your distro of choice). Once this is enough to affect the bottom line (enough that it can't be offset by the gains of the "customer experience" improvement), then Microsoft will probably react in some way...

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[Solandri]

What really pissed me off about the data harvesting that Microsoft is doing with these updates is how Microsoft callously has ignored any wishes I had previously stated regarding my preferences for not harvesting data from my computers.

What else is new? Every couple months I have to deal with forms from my banks and credit cards asking if they can share my person info for marketing purposes. Never mind that I've told them no every single time. Every year they ask again, and require me to re-state "no", sign it, and stuff their irregularly-sized response sheet in one of my envelopes (no pre-addressed envelope provided), pay for postage, and take the time to drop it in a mailbox. And if I forget to do it, that is assumed to be equivalent to me giving them permission to sell my info to advertisers. Because the law says they're supposed to assume I want my private info to become public unless I explicitly tell them no every year.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[Irate Engineer]

Yeah, Linux Mint was a pretty seamless transition from XP on my netbook as well.

I think gamers are stuck, as will be most commercial applications that aren't supported on anything but Windows, but for routine web and office applications Linux Mint is just fine.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[Ramze]

I love Mint... but, I like Cubuntu more -- it's mostly a French distro, but has English releases... It's just Ubuntu w/ the spyware ripped out and the Cinnamon and Mate interfaces instead of Unity. It's missing a few small nice Linux Mint customizations for nemo and Mint's specific software updater; but, it gains 100% compatibility with Ubuntu repositories and has newer packages.

I made the switch b/c I had a lot of issues with Mint's older kernels, drivers, codecs, and older VLC repository that led to crashes - Nemo crashes, Nautilus crashes, complete X crashes, etc. Since switching to Cubuntu -- not a single issue.

The only problem w/ Cubuntu was on the install -- it wouldn't let me move forward w/ the installer if I chose an encrypted home drive on an already encrypted volume... but, you can encrypt the home directory later if they haven't fixed that.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[SuricouRaven]

Microsoft supplies OEM licenses for what is basically a peppercorn. It's a cost so small as to be negligible. They do so to prevent the scenario you describe. In some cases a manufacturer actually makes money just by including Windows, because they can get paid to bundle crapware free trials too - and that income can exceed the cost of the OEM windows license.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[SuricouRaven]

Gamers are not as stuck as they used to be, mostly thanks to Valve. Their games library is still comparatively limited, but a surprising number of the big titles are available. Left4Dead 2 certainly runs very nicely, and just about anything made by Valve will be available for linux. I've also had surprisingly few graphics-drivers and library version nightmares. Every game I've got off Steam for linux has run fine first time, except for one. Some sort of tower-defense/fps hybrid.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[PrimaryConsult]

That reminds me of how I switched to Mint (KDE Edition) on a whim... I needed to reinstall Windows 7 but gave Linux one chance: I would install Mint and if I could get all my Windows games working in Wine in 1 day, I would stick with Mint... excluding waiting for downloads, in 2 hours I had my Blizzard games and League of Legends running flawlessly (thanks Play on Linux!).

Disclaimer: I have a lot of Linux experience which may have helped speed this along, but I don't remember doing anything more than following the Ubuntu instructions for getting them to work.

Re:... and Windows becomes less and less helpful

[strikethree]

Holy crap! Change your bank now. I have never had to deal with this kind of abusive behavior. Try a credit union or something. Just ouch.

The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad

[yuhong]

The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad if it is true, but thank MS for listing the hostnames at least.

Re:The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad

[AmiMoJo]

Windows has been bypassing hosts since at least 2000 for Windows Update. Makes sense, don't want a DNS hijack to break that. What worries me is that they feel the need to protect telemetry in this way.

What is in this data that needs protecting?

Re:The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad

[ihtoit]

Hosts WILL NOT stop CEIP telemetry.

Re:The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad

[davester666]

It's collecting everything you type/paste. There might be the odd valuable bit of text in there somewhere.

Re:The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad

[yuhong]

I don't believe that it is collecting the actual text.

Re:The hosts file bypass makes me feel bad

[davester666]

How do you know?

Microsoft isn't saying what they are collecting now or may wish to collect in the future, the data is encrypted, and they don't work with proxy https servers, so you can't decrypt the data to see what they are sending. It's just "trust us, we know what's best for you".

Re:Suicide

[Reaperducer]

Don't worry. Both Microsoft and Apple can handle your divide by zero.

Router Block

[man_ls]

Most routers offer functionality to restrict traffic to addresses; I implemented a block on those addresses over all TCP and UDP ports. Hopefully that's enough.

Info from the actual article

[Golden_Rider]

I know, I am crazy, I actually READ the article. And this info is in there:

Now they have been launched the positive news is KB3075249 and KB3080149 have been classed as ‘Optional’ in Windows Update. This means they won’t install without Windows 7 and Windows 8 users giving them express permission to do so (a key difference to Windows 10).

On the flip side KB3068708 is classified as ‘Recommended’ which means Windows 7 and Windows 8 PCs with Windows Update set to automatic will install it by default. That said for the update to appear in the first place you will need to be a participant in Microsoft’s Customer Experience Improvement Program, an opt-in program which already has you agreeing to send user data to the company.

Re:Info from the actual article

[QuietLagoon]

...Microsoft’s Customer Experience Improvement Program, an opt-in program...

I've read about instances where the "opt-in" was not really at the customer's discretion or direction.

.
I've also experienced first-hand where Microsoft has changed update settings on my computers so that the tracking updates would be downloaded and installed, even though I had previously explicitly said that I did not want that to happen.

So the problem with the article you cite is that it seems to think that Microsoft actually follows preferences that are set by customers on customer PCs.

Re:Info from the actual article

[rainmaestro]

Is the article correct?

According to the settings in OneNote, I'm not opted in to CEIP, but I can still see KB3068708 in the update list. Additionally, it is Optional, not Recommended.

Perhaps what the article meant is that it only shows up in Recommended if you are enrolled, and is Optional otherwise.

Re:Info from the actual article

[E-Rock]

I'd bet that most of the people just clicked next during the install question about the CEIP, since the default is yes. They didn't know what it did and now are upset about it, even though they still don't know what it does.

Re:Info from the actual article

[Anonymous Coward]

I've NEVER had my Windows set to automatically install, yet every few days it reboots sometime during the night to "install the latest updates".

So now I'll have to check for those updates and see if they've been forced onto my computer without my permission.
If i find them, I should be able to sue Microsoft, and have them all arrested, for computer hacking, right?

Right???

Re:Can't wait for this flamefest to start...

[execthis]

This is kind of old news and there are more updates that are recommended to uninstall, as well as scheduled tasks and services.

Most most

[wonkey_monkey]

One of the most most controversial aspects of Windows 10

I guess that could be a typo...

Re:Most most

[ihtoit]

yeah, that wasn't me.

Thanks, Ed. :)

Very easy to get rid of... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

IMPORTANT ONE IS GROUP POLICY (gpedit.msc):

Go to Computer Configuration, Administrative Templates, System
Internet Communication Management, Internet Communication Settings

ENABLE (to turn it on, it is a disabler)

"Turn off Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program"

---

TO REMOVE THE BOGUS OPTIONAL TELEMETRY HOTFIXES MANUALLY:

Open command prompt
Type powershell
issue these commands

---

TO SEE WHAT ONES ARE INSTALLED:

get-hotfix -id KB3035583, KB2952664,KB2976978,KB3021917,KB3044374,KB2990214

---

TO UNINSTALL THEM (these for sure, per url next below):

wusa /uninstall /kb:3035583
wusa /uninstall /kb:2952664
wusa /uninstall /kb:2976978
wusa /uninstall /kb:3021917
wusa /uninstall /kb:3044374
wusa /uninstall /kb:2990214

per http://www.ghacks.net/2015/04/...

---

DESCRIPTIONS OF EACH (these uninstalled properly):

KB3068708 (Telemetry)
KB3075249 (Telemetry)
KB3080149 (Telemetry)

KB3022345 (Telemetry)
KB2977759 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB3021917 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparatioon + Telemetry)
KB3035583 (Windows 10 upgrade preparation)

---

I GOT "NOT INSTALLED ON THIS COMPUTER" ON THESE INITIALLY SINCE I HAD IE11 installed (PROBABLY ONES FOR IE9/10/11):

KB3075249
KB3080149
KB2505438
* KB2670838 (See IE 9/10/11 notes below)
KB3044374
KB2990214 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)
KB2505438 (Although it claims to fix performance issues, it often breaks fonts)
KB2976978 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation)

---

I GOT "NOT INSTALLED ON THIS COMPUTER" ON THESE (*PRIOR* TO PULLING KB2670838 which is IE 11):

* KB2670838 (This update often breaks AERO on Windows 7 and makes some fonts on websites fuzzy. A Windows 7 specific update only
                        (do not install IE10 or 11 otherwise it will be bundled with them, IE9 is the max version you should install to avoid this).

THESE RE-APPEAR AFTER UNINSTALLING IE11 RIGHT ON RESTARTING & CHECKING WINDOWS UPDATE:

* KB2952664 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation prior to IE9/10/11 install)
* KB3021917 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation prior to IE9/10/11 install)
* KB3068708 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation prior to IE9/10/11 install)
* KB3092627 (Windows 10 Upgrade preparation prior to IE9/10/11 install)

---

run cmd as administrator

sc stop Diagtrack
sc delete Diagtrack

---

*Task Scheduler Library:

Everything under "Application Experience"
Everything under "Autochk"
Everything under "Customer Experience Improvement Program"
Under "Disk Diagnostic" only the "Microsoft-Windows-DiskDiagnosticDataCollector"
Under "Maintenance" "WinSAT"
"Media Center" and click the "status" column, then select all non-disabled entries and disable them.

*services.msc:

"Remote Registry" to "Disabled" instead of "Manual".

APK

P.S.=> And "There ya go"... apk

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Did an APK post just get modded UP? Did I not survive the trip to the bathroom?

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

So much for the (bogus) argument that Linux is harder to install and maintain; that Linux requires too much command line work to get it working.

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait till you see some hardcore Powershell scripting, you're going to explode.

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried turning off "Customer Experience Improvement Program". It said I would not longer receive Automatic Updates. From a security pov this doesn't seem like a good idea.

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[del_diablo]

So does turning off any of those brick SD card reading? Just curious.

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[anglico]

I used the script here from Github: https://github.com/WindowsLies...

Reading the bat file seems to take care of most of what is listed above. I did notice one of my scheduled tasks in the Media Center entries was still enabled after running the bat file, but I hope this helps.

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[JohnnyMindcrime]

Wow! And Microsofties laugh at me for just going into /etc and editing a few settings in a flat text file with vi(m)?

Re:Very easy to get rid of... apk

[JohnnyMindcrime]

I have. And thanks anyway, I will stick with Bash and just mounting Windows drives on Linux to do any cool scripting stuff.

I still haven't worked out if Powershell is "DOS wishing it was UNIX" or not.

Foreign Windows Version

[PPH]

There will be one, right? Or will Microsoft's executives risk arrest and charges of espionage when they travel overseas?

Re:Foreign Windows Version

[Sibko]

Any country those execs will want to visit are already owned by the US.

Like they'd get a say in how their own laws are enforced. :^)

Re:Foreign Windows Version

[AmiMoJo]

I'm hoping for a Windows N version for Europe, like they had for Media Player. This time with telemetry removed.

Re:Foreign Windows Version

[w_dragon]

There are foreign versions. I can't speak to the telemetry but you'll know you're on a European version if a fresh install does not have Edge pinned to the taskbar by default.

Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

Can anyone suggest a good home router that will allow me to block all traffic to the IP addresses of vortex-win.data.microsoft.com and settings-win.data.microsoft.com (not sure if hosts is being ignored and the URL addresses are still being resolved or if the IP addresses are hard-coded in the malware). I would like multiple options and the ability to compare price and other features as well. The ability to statically lock a mac address to a local IP address (through DHCP) is a must (amazingly not all routers have this). Lots of other features are very desirable, I'm looking for something capable, not something dumbed down for the average computer illiterate consumer. Will consider a home router with open source replacement software, but want to be very sure that the desired software will be compatible with the hardware if I go that route, and then I need to know both what router (model and version) to spring for and what firmware to go with. Obviously (but I'll say it anyway) I'm looking for a router maker that doesn't have a history of introducing their own vulnerabilities into the system or cooperating with the N.S.A. or including back doors.

As I expect to have to pay more for this ideal fix than many of the dirt cheap router deals, I don't want to cut corners on the hardware. Gigabyte connections are rapidly growing in availability and, while not yet available to my home, it would be short sighted to buy an expensive solution with only 10/100 speeds that would make the router far less useful in the future. So dirt cheat 10/100 solutions are OK but supporting Gigabit speeds are a must for anything pricey that I'll expect to you for years.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[PPH]

And once some people have this properly configured, please report your experiences.

Will Windows just throw up a bunch of nag screens? Will it become crippled? Or perhaps refuse to run altogether?

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[Indy1]

no issues blocking the 2 hostnames. I use a linux box as my router/firewall in my home network, and have blocked em. Neither my Win7 or Win10 boxes complain a bit.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

Or perhaps refuse to run altogether?

It damn well better not refuse to run all together. Not unless Microsoft discloses that Windows now requires a full time Internet connection. I think that I still have the right to take my computer to a location where I don't have Internet access and still expect a crappy Microsoft experience.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[C18H27NO3]

http://pfsense.org/ is one such option.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

Please give the model number of this Buffalo router (and version if applicable). A link to it at Frys would also be nice. The problem is simply that manufacturers make many routers and may even make multiple routers that run open source software, so I would like a link to something know to actually work.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

Really? Prices starting at $300 for a minimal router with no wifi and one local port (no built-in switch)? I think I'm still looking.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

And prices starting at $500 fot the lowest end router that lists "Gigabit Throughput". The $300 router claims to have Gigabit ports but avoids listing :Gigabit Throughput " like the other models do!

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[techno-vampire]

Get yourself a small, inexpensive desktop computer with two NICs, install a stable Linux version, such as a LTS Ubuntu version or CentOS and configure it as a router and DNS server. Make sure that its firewall is set to block all traffic to those sites, in or out, and that DNS is set to return 127.0.0.1 as all of their IP addresses. It's a bit of work, but once it's up, it's about as safe as you can get without going to the extreme of using OADS.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

This is certainly an option that I'm considering. My reason for not rushing to do it, beyond the somewhat still user-unfriendly nature of Linux (for those us us who are not Linux high-priests and know well the sacred prayers), is that an inexpensive desktop PC eats a lot more power than a router type solution. Many of the very small desktop solutions that I've seen use ARM processors and might not support the software needed, and these tend to have one NIC and extremely limited expansion capability. Other that have x86 type processors often lack a second NIC and the capability to add one. And most or all still include the Microsoft tax, or worse cost more with no OS than a computer that includes the Microsoft tax. And now the question of "will the box even be able to boot anything non-Windows" enters the discussion. Even if I get an expansion port, if it is an arm processor or some other non-86 type processor I might no be able to install a driver for a second NIC. So while I'm certainly not ruling out this solution (in many ways it seems very desirable and should allow me to do a lot more secure things that I just don't expect to do with a stand along router; I would love to have a display of all of my outbound traffic for example), I'm hoping that someone will give very specific answers about what they have done, not just a vague "get yourself a cheap PC response" that really doesn't pass along any experience.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[techno-vampire]

You don't need to be a Linux guru unless you insist on doing everything from a CLI. This is why I suggested the distros I did: they don't need much maintenance, and if you go with CentOS, you won't have to worry about updates very often. The programs you need, including the firewall configuration, all have GUI front ends. And, unlike Windows, Linux doesn't demand that you download and install a special driver for almost any mainstream card unless the OEM is being pissy about providing the specs. If you're a hardware geek, or have access to one, your best bet is to buy bits and pieces and put your own server together with two NICs of the same brand. (Checking on the support forum for whatever distro you're planning on using will tell you which brands/models are safe.) And the nice thing about doing it that way is that you don't need bleeding edge hardware or a huge mass of RAM; if all the box is doing is acting as a router and a local DNS server, it won't need that much.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[Harlequin80]

Personal suggestion. Get yourself a low powered atom based machine and run pfsense on it. Yes you will have a steeper learning curve but the outcome is better. Depending on what your internet connection actually is will depend on whether you need dual gigabit nics or whether you can get away with a USB ethernet dongle. There are a gazillion mini-itx atom boards with dual nics or you can buy something pre-made such as http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Fa...

You are looking at an investment of a couple of hundred all up but you will spend $100+ for a decent router anyway.

PfSense isn't too bad to learn and the default install options are pretty good. Even without a strong linux knowledge you should be up and running and happy in a couple of hours.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[ihtoit]

I did read rumours dotted about (sorry I don't have urls handy) about Windows logon being ported to entirely cloud-based via Live accounts or somesuch. That's software as a service for you, no internet connection (like you're in a cave), no desktop. Wonderful.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

I certainly wouldn't put this past Microsoft. But they better make it very public when they try it and they sure better not download "updates" to existing versions of the software like Win 7 and Win 8 that enforce it on people who bought their computers before this nonsense even started. And your cave is my mountain top, or airport, or airplane. Or even when I'm visiting family or friends who don't have internet access. (There are still farmlands in this country don't have Internet access or only can reach the Internet by a very limited cell phone link.)

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[ihtoit]

I might start to sound a bit tinfoil, but isn't SAAS and TIA sort of merging here, if the rumours are actually true?

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[PPH]

TIA

Total Information Awareness
or
This Is Africa?

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

Thanks. Not awful, but it is 10/100 only, not Gigabit ports. It is currently about 6 bucks less at Newegg. Not ready to jump at this and rule out Gigabit capable solutions, even though I don't need that yet.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[ihtoit]

the first one.

(though I might have said the second one just to bake your noodle).

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[frovingslosh]

Maybe. But since I have to pay $100 just to read the manual for this "free" software, I really don't feel that I can evaluate it properly.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[mattventura]

1. Search "Supermicro atom board" on ebay. Try to find one that comes with RAM. You should be able to get the board+RAM for under $100 if you wait for a good deal to arise.
2. Get a PicoPSU to power it and a thumb drive to install the OS on. This has the added bonus of never having to worry about bricking due to bad flashes.
3. Install whatever OS you want since it's x86.
Plus you'll forever be safe of the FCC's proposed rules against custom firmwares on routers.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[cbiltcliffe]

My network runs on a pfSense router; an old PIII 800MHz desktop system with 512MB RAM and a 10GB hard disk. Plug whatever NICs in you want, whether they're 10/100s that you have kicking around, or Gigabit if you have them. The system itself was free for me, as it was a castoff from some other purpose that it was no longer powerful enough for. I think my NICs (I have 4 in mine) were all castoffs, too. They're all 10/100, but it doesn't matter, because my local Internet speed is only about 15Mb down. Then I've got a castoff Cisco 10/100 switch that came from a customer who was upgrading. Their head office was supposed to send me a box and shipping label to send it back, but after harassing them for several months, and always hearing "Yes...we'll get that sent right out," I gave up on them and started using it myself.

But, the beauty of it is, if I need to upgrade to Gigabit at some point about 27 years from now, when local ISPs finally get their act together, then all I have to do is swap out the 10/100 NICs for Gb, and all of a sudden I've upgraded my router to higher speed for somewhere in the neighbourhood of $50.

Yes, you can buy a complete pfSense hardware router solution, but unless you need some kind of warranty support for a commercial application, I don't see why you'd need to.

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[cbiltcliffe]

Maybe. But since I have to pay $100 just to read the manual for this "free" software, I really don't feel that I can evaluate it properly.

What the ever loving fuck are you talking about? Unless you're saying you need to become a gold member subscriber to get access to the manual (meaning the Pfsense: The Definitive Guide book, which, along with a pile of other stuff, comes with that gold membership.) In that case, you're a complete idiot, and probably aren't capable of setting up said firewall in the first place.

Getting started guide: https://www.pfsense.org/getting-started/
Hardware selection guide: https://www.pfsense.org/hardware/
Install guide: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Installing_pfSense
Tutorials: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Tutorials
Full Documentation Wiki: https://doc.pfsense.org/index.php/Main_Page
Forum: https://forum.pfsense.org/index.php

All of these are free. The forums are some of the best of any open source product as far as activity and usefulness.

Incidentally, the book is also available in paperback form from Amazon.ca for $48 CAD (about $40 US), so even if you did insist on having that book as your pfSense "manual," you still don't have to pay $100 for it. The Kindle version is even cheaper, at $36 CAD. http://www.amazon.ca/Pfsense-Definitive-Christopher-M-Buechler/dp/0979034280

Re:Any good router suggestions?

[cbiltcliffe]

(AC spends an hour looking around the website for almost the most expensive support option there is.....) See?! It's not free!!! You have to pay eleventy thousand dollars just for the manual!!! IT'S A SCAM!!!!!

Meanwhile, the software is free to download, there are free guides for every part of the install process (hardware selection, software install, etc) There are probably over 100 tutorials for various scenarios, there's a very active and useful forum, etc.etc.etc, all of which are free.
The book you're referring to is also available separately from the support subscription, for around $40 US in paperback form; cheaper for an electronic edition.

Basically, what you're saying is: Linux isn't free at all, for anybody, because Red Hat charges $1300/year for an enterprise support contract.
Translation: You're an idiot.

Re:How do I tell if they are installed?

[srmalloy]

If you uninstall them, and they reappear on your update list, you can hide the specific updates so that they stop appearing in the update list, and won't get installed unless you specifically go back, unhide them, and then run Windows Update again.

Microsoft Care

[FrostedWheat]

Microsoft used to just hate Mac and Linux users. Good to see they're expanding that to Windows users too, they where beginning to feel left out.

marketing speak: "customer experience"

[bkmoore]

"...add customer experience and diagnostic telemetry..."

They didn't say that the 'customer experience' would be a good one. Sounds almost like airlines touting their coin-operated lavatories as somehow adding to the 'customer experience', as nobody forgets the experience of not having a couple of spare quarters at 40,000 feet and three hours to go until to landing.

Re:marketing speak: "customer experience"

[E-Rock]

I think they need to be crystal clear about what they're collecting, when, and provide a way to really opt out. That said, CEIP is how they learn what people are doing with the OS. What program do they use, what control panel apps do they run, what settings do they change, how do they use the start menu. CEIP data is where they decided that no one used the start menu, so it was OK to trash it. Of course, all of us power users turning those features off meant they had a really bad sample population.

Re:Suicide

[fluffernutter]

Because the wall around the garden prevents me from doing what I want to do with a computer. That is worse then reporting what I'm doing any day.

Can someone post a fix?

[spiritplumber]

Can someone post a fix? I'm more into the embedded side of things so while I have half an idea, I wouldn't know if it worked or not.

Re:Can someone post a fix?

[Shikaku]

http://techne.alaya.net/?p=124...

Class Action Suit!

[BrendaEM]

Please someone sue, we'll be sharpen our axes and lighting torches.

Re:Class Action Suit!

[Ash-Fox]

Please someone sue, we'll be sharpen our axes and lighting torches.

Microsoft delivered exactly what people wanted. They wanted Windows 10's data collection to match previous versions of Windows, so Microsoft accommodated them.

Never again ...

[bye_bye_windows]

will MS Windows be used in this household nor at work. This is the straw that broke this camel's back. Damn you to Hell Microsoft ... bless you (insert flavor here) linux. Moving on.

Re:Never again ...

[Chatsubo]

Yep, I guess finally the year of linux on the desktop is here...

I'll admit I'm loathe to switch my gaming box to all-linux and deal with the fallout. But suddenly I feel like I have no real choice. It's Linux or bust now. :/

Wish I could return Windows 8 now on grounds of bait-and-switch.

Re: How do I tell if they are installed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. I hid the KB update for "upgrading" to Windows 10 and it auto installed itself again anyway. This is from my Win-7 box.

Re:Suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

You fail to see the wall being built around you.

So your objection to the possible MS garden is that the wall isn't as high as the one already around the Apple work farm?

Let me simplify it for you: MS/Apple both send data back home.
You are going to be be shot in the leg. That's not optional.
Apple also cuts off your hand. MS doesn't. Yet. They might later, but not yet.

Do you want to "risk" MS cutting your hand off later, or are you advocating rushing over to Apple now so they can do it for sure now?

Veering aside

[SuperKendall]

Where you went at the end was a good point, but I thought you were going somewhere else initially - "telemetry data for hundreds of millions of users" is effectively Microsoft DDOS'ing itself already, not many people could really generate significantly more traffic to the collection sites already beyond what it will naturally be getting.

Re:Veering aside

[Kaenneth]

It's not sending EVERYTHING, only aggregated data, not a ton of traffic.

Re:Veering aside

[SuperKendall]

Sure, but even a small amount of data from millions of systems is still a lot of traffic and a lot of connections. Some DDOS system that came at it with even a hundred thousand or so compromised systems probably could not come close to knocking it out.

Re:Veering aside

[ihtoit]

unlikely since they tap straight off the biggest backbone in the United States (its own Azure service). Microsoft have, like all other backbone providers, exponentially increasing bandwidth potential. Useful since they shun bittorrent for distribution, instead preferring to serve up content directly from their own cloud.

Re:Veering aside

[StikyPad]

Actually, Win10 updates are distributed via file-sharing by default. I believe it's a variant of bittorrent, but I could be mistaken.

Re:Veering aside

[ihtoit]

be interesting to find out for sure...

Solutions

[JimDarkmagic]

I was looking at this recently; this should turn off and block much of it:

Turn off CEIP, Uninstall updates, and then hide telemetry updates to prevent re-install:
http://www.pcworld.com/article...
Note: my "CEIP" setting was opted-out, but I still received two of those updates. So the "you don't get these updates if you're not in CEIP" assertions are incorrect, at least in my case.

Turn off CEIP reporting services:
https://pubs.vmware.com/view-5...

I kept having that "Update Windows 10" (GWXUX) service crash, so I turned it off using the registry update at the end of this article, leaving myself the opportunity to reverse the process and upgrade later if desired:
http://www.howtogeek.com/21885...

If you want to block windows 10 telemetry using a quick and dirty private DNS server, along with ad and malware blocking, install dnsmasq on a computer (maybe a raspberry pi if you're going for cheap, I'm using a VM on a test bed computer in bridged mode for this experiment):
https://www.linux.com/learn/tu... ...and block using an amalgamation of HOSTS files from here:
https://github.com/StevenBlack...

It's a python script that gets a few HOSTS files on the net and de-duplicates them into a mega crap-blocker list. The resulting list includes tens of thousands of DNS lookups that will be blocked at the perimeter of your network, so it could cause some web pages or software to break they depend on sites blocked by these lists. You can prepare you own windows 10 specific HOSTS file using entries from http://someonewhocares.org/hos... and those listed in articles about this issue if you feel paranoid. Windows can side-step your hosts file, but not your DNS server!

Stating the obvious: you'll want to leave the quick and dirty DNS behind your firewall/router, not expose it to the Internet.

Re:Solutions

[cfalcon]

Whew, only five links to read, a binary registry to modify, and bunch of command line stuff to do at root, some with a package manager. Much easier than Linux!

Sarcasm aside, your post is very informative. But notice that you, unlike the fools, have written at the top "this should turn off and block *much* of it".

How much extra do you think you'd have to type to be sure you got it all? I'm asking, I can't even keep up with it anymore. And the fact that I can't ever take an update from Microsoft creates possible security holes. That's a better deal than the for-suresies ones that we can turn off (for now) using these methods, but it's still a dead OS walking.

Bypass the Hosts file ..

[nickweller]

"others cannot be disabled or stopped that easily, for instance because of hardcoded host and IP address information that bypass the Hosts file of the operating system." MicroNSA must really really want to keep tabs on you.

Automatic updates disabled

[jez9999]

The second MS started pulling this Windows 10 shit weeks ago (and I discovered they had downloaded 4GB to my hard drive), I disabled automatic updates and uninstalled the offending KBs. Touch wood I haven't had MS install any crap to my Windows 7 box since then.

Re:Automatic updates disabled

[cfalcon]

Are you sure you got them all? Might want to check your update history. Sort by date, and be sure you check every one going back to like, May. You may be surprised- many of these pushes were "sleepers", pushed out with bland descriptions and only active now.

I guess I was part of the first wave

[drinkypoo]

Microsoft pushed KB3075249 and KB3080149 at me on 8/18.

overrides hostfile, meh

[behrooz0az]

Override this
$TTL 3600
@ IN SOA ns1.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com. vortex-win.data.microsoft.com. (2015090701 7200 120 2419200 3600)
A 0.0.0.0
* IN A 0.0.0.0
AAAA 0100::1
* IN AAAA 0100::1

Re:overrides hostfile, meh

[Ash-Fox]

Stuff like Avast's DNS protection will override that.

Re:overrides hostfile, meh

[behrooz0az]

Avast added to tardware list.
Anyways I don't use windows and I don't support windows except a few things that merely run on windows which makes this crap not my responsibility.

Re:overrides hostfile, meh

[ewhac]

You do know that DNS queries can be directed to any DNS server, not just the default you get with your DHCP address assignment. There's no reason Microsoft would (or should) trust any DNS servers other than its own.

It seems like the most reliable option would be to null-route the IPs themselves at your gateway. (At which point, Microsoft opens a VPN tunnel via a third site. Rinse, recurse...)

Old News

[DERoss]

The updates for the cited KB numbers appeared some time ago. I did not install them.

The best practice now is to set Microsoft Update to check for updates and alert you but not to download or install any updates. Note however that this is NOT an option with Windows 10, which is a good reason to avoid Windows 10. .

Then review the details of why each update should be installed. In Windows Update (Windows 7), select an update. At the right will be a link "More information". Select that link and read the Web page. If the information presented there does not tell you how the update will benefit you, the user, do not install it. In that case, the update most likely benefits only Microsoft.

Re:Old News

[reboot246]

That's the way I deal with it, too.

I'm hoping that so many people will complain about Microsoft's spyware that we may get their attention, but I'm not holding my breath.

I work all over the Southeast and I'm spreading the word everywhere I go. The people I work with know and trust my opinions.

Re:Old News

[cfalcon]

> Are you going to disable updates completely from now on, and hope that your box doesn't get pwned

Yes, honestly.

In fairness, I suspect we'll see one or more of these happens in the window from now until 0-day-o-clock:

1- Microsoft will stop this.
2- Third party stuff will get on top of Malwaresoft's new bozoware, and fix it. To a decent degree, this is happening (Spybot, for instance)

But yes, I'll take a small risk of getting owned later to avoid getting owned for absolute certainty right now.

Telemetry co-opted by malware

[Knightman]

I'm just waiting for the first malware that will co-opt all the telemetry to spy on users...

Re:Telemetry co-opted by malware

[Phrogman]

I know what you mean, but from the description, it would seem that MS has already provided that malware itself.

Re:Telemetry co-opted by malware

[Anonymous Coward]

The first malware to exploit this is Windows 10.0.

Or did you mean second?

Re:Telemetry co-opted by malware

[coofercat]

I'm looking forward to some crap-spreading malware that uses the telemetry feature to send a load of fake telemetry to Microsoft. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the review meetings:

Techie: "Telemetry data shows that 72% of our users spend over 3 hours a day using the calculator"
Boss: Let's make a full screen calculator that's full of ads so we can capitalise on selling as much of those pixels as we can.
Ad exec: I'll put together some messaging for our client base that are in the market segments that are a good fit with your findings

The following month:

Techie: Telemetry shows that almost universally no one is using the calculator any longer. They've all moved to Notepad now
Boss: Okay, pull any remaining dev work on the calculator and move them all onto the Notepad team. This time let's do really subtle advertising that won't scare the users away like we did with the calculator
Ad exec: [something unintelligible to anyone with an IQ over 75]

Re: Nothing Usefull....

[behrooz0az]

that 2 minutes is the tcp connection timeout. it BSoDs when the user starts flash.

Re:Suicide

[jargonburn]

I'd rather send Microsoft my dick size than go to Apple.

Why would either be interested in something so insignificant?

Because, based on both companies behavior, size matters? ;-)

So glad I'm not on Win10

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I'm so glad I'm not on Win10. With any luck, I never will be.

This blatant crap of tracking every click, every mouse movement, every site, etc etc etc is mind boggling in the fact that they would even propose doing this, let alone brag about it.

"Telemetry"? I think the word they really want is "spying".

Re:So glad I'm not on Win10

[cfalcon]

> so glad I'm not in Win10

Are you on Windows 7? Or 8? They have the same stuff now, that's what the article about.

Re:Suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

>>You are going to be be shot in the leg.

Ahem, Linux.

This

[tuxgeek]

Reading TFA
Big chuckle followed by: "Thank God for FreeBSD"

Re:Suicide

[cfalcon]

What walled garden is present in OSX? Don't you have root and a command line? Am I missing something?

How much are they paying me?

[Mark4ST]

I am definitely in favour of sharing all of my usage data, provided that I get paid for it. I only do surveys for cash. If I had a financial stake in it, I wouldn't dream of asking someone for their opinion without providing compensation.

Re:Only if you let them

[cfalcon]

Shut up if you don't know wtf you are talking about AC. It takes a huge blocklist to stop this shit, and you need it to be on an entirely separate device that sits between your Win-doze box and the actual internet. There's a huge list of things to do to stop this from happening- it isn't a single firewall rule.

Glad as hell I opted for Linux instead of Win7

[Irate Engineer]

XP EOL'd and I was considering going to Windows 7 (which was a pretty good release, until now), but just before I pulled the trigger, Windows H8 rolled out and the shit storm that followed convinced me that Microsoft left the rails and wasn't listening to its users anymore.

I feel like I just stepped aboard one of the Titanic's lifeboats just before the band started playing "Nearer my God to Thee." Whoever is still aboard the HMS MS is properly fucked.

Actually, I think most don't care, and they will happily part with all their data, public and private. They won't regret the decision until it fucks them, at which point they can't roll it back.

Using Linux Mint now - try it!

Re:Glad as hell I opted for Linux instead of Win7

[JohnnyMindcrime]

My only non-Gentoo Linux box these days is an old Asus EEE PC 1215n laptop that has the crappy NVIDIA Ion hybrid graphics chip that they totally dropped support for after a year. I got most of the laptop working under Gentoo but couldn't get the Bumblebee virtual X-Server to work with the Ion chipset at all, in the end I reverted it back to Windows 7 as a small laptop that had at least a little 3d-gaming capability.

With that said, I've never liked Windows 7, XP with the Classic desktop was the best OS Microsoft ever made, Windows 7 was no more stable, change-for-change's sake and Aero is ugly, bloated and very wasteful of screen real-estate.

This news is the "straw that broke the camel's back", optional update or not, I'm not giving Microsoft that free reign over my data. Gentoo is going back on that laptop, if it means no NVIDIA 3D gaming then so be it.

blackhole?

[gr33ngiant112]

cmd prompt as admin
echo vortex-win.data.microsoft.com 127.0.0.1 >> C:\temp\set.txt
echo settings-win.data.microsoft.com 127.0.0.1 >> C:\temp\set.txt
type C:\temp\set.txt >> C:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
Shouldn't that just blackhole sending of telemetry data? Or have I missed something...

Re:blackhole?

[mister_playboy]

Or have I missed something...

Yes. MS has given the telemetry system permission to bypass the hosts file.

Consider that, and then ask: just whose computer is it, exactly?

Re:blackhole?

[gr33ngiant112]

ah.. ain't that a bitch. Just curious, was it via packet capture that this was confirmed? Or just speculation?

Re:How do I tell if they are installed?

[ihtoit]

TFA poster: experience and many more users will inform you otherwise. WT/CEIP is forceware - you have no choice unless you KILL automatic updates, period. Even if you THINK you have it on just for security updates, you will still get CEIP if you think you've turned it off.

Re:Windows 10 is better for you.

[tepples]

Get Windows 10, it has APPS that let you app other apps!

I'll believe you if you link to a page on Windows Store for Visual Studio. Until then, the only OS I know of that lets you app other apps with apps is Android, which has AIDE.

On home editions?

[tepples]

IMPORTANT ONE IS GROUP POLICY (gpedit.msc):

Since when is gpedit.msc included with Windows 7 Home Premium, Windows 8 (home), or Windows 10 (home)?

For great justice...

[Zanadou]

Windows User #1: What happen ?

Windows User #2: Somebody set up us the patch.

Windows User #3: We get data link.

Windows User #1: What !

Windows User #3: C Drive turn on.

Windows User #1: It's you !!

MICROSOFT: How are you gentlemen !!

MICROSOFT: All your base are belong to us.

MICROSOFT: You are on the way to destruction.

Windows User #1: What you say !!

MICROSOFT: You have no chance to survive make your time.

HIPAA

[hierofalcon]

Hope nobody here is a system administrator at a hospital or doing contract work for a medical specialist.

Re:HIPAA

[Ash-Fox]

Hope nobody here is a system administrator at a hospital or doing contract work for a medical specialist.

As someone who does Windows system administration, I was able to very quickly figure out which GPOs effect these KBs. As someone whom has ran active diectory systems, I controlled when Windows updates were deployed and which.

If you're a system administrator and making these comments, your knowledge is poor, get the proper training. Look at course 50255C (or a more up to date one) from a Microosft learning partner.

Re:HIPAA

[im_thatoneguy]

I hope you already didn't have the Customer Experience Improvement Program enabled on those systems because this article is full of shit. They just updated the telemetry app that was already opted into. "Would you like to send anonymous Data to improve windows?" If you said yes don't act like a shocked little baby when Microsoft sends anonymous data to improve windows.

No, actually it isn't rolled out

[slashmydots]

I just checked for installed updates on my Windows 7 64-bit Home Premium OEM copy and there is nothing by those names. I also checked my windows update program and there are no available updates. I also checked my calendar and it's not Tuesday. So I guess the story headline is actually one giant lie then, huh? I'll be sure to eliminate these updates from the list of possible ones to install WHEN THEY ACTUALLY LAUNCH.

Re:Suicide

[Required Snark]

Apple is a closed hardware platform, although Hackentosh is still an option.

OTOH Apple hardware/software is very reliable although not the most cost efficient. Even though the BSOD is not the daily occurrence it used to be, Apple machines stay up because of their BSD roots. I'm using an old iMac, and and I have not had an unplanned reboot in years. Bringing the machine down is only needed for software updates or hardware failures/changes. Windows machines are not like that.

Also more then one person has pointed out that Windows on Apple hardware is a very good combination, if you ignore the cost issues.

I feel like an update spotter now

[Limitless_Potential]

guess what numbers I'll be looking for every time I get pestered to run updates

In the EU ? Contact the EU Data Commission.

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody else reading this in Europe ?

I suggest you do what I did. Contact the EU Data Commission and demand they take action against Microsoft spying on their users. This is not acceptable in any way, shape or form and is illegal in Europe.

Seriously. If enough people get off their arse, complain, and keep complaining this shit will get thrown out of Europe. We still have some notion of the respect of an individuals privacy and aren't ruled by corporations to quite the same extent as the US.

Why are you still reading this ? Go and make a formal complaint NOW.

Re:Has anyone had luck testing out this link ?

[Zurd3]

Yes I've used it on 2 computers up to now, works perfectly well, I love it!

Government Contractors

[Drethon]

This should be good for government contractors. You know, the companies that are required by the US government to lock down all of their networks so they can guarantee none of the outgoing data is illegal exports of sensitive data?

Edge firewall

[cigawoot]

Guess what is now blocked at the edge of my network?

Bluescreen

[Drethon]

Both my Win 10 and Win 8.1 laptops blue screened this weekend after updates. Coincidence?

Re:Other companies and their sensitive data on win

[Ash-Fox]

I can't reproduce your claims, nor find evidence of it happening on Google with regards to GPOs.

The closest thing I am aware of is Windows resetting GPOs on a system upgrade (as opposed to updates). But that has been expected behaviour since Windows 2000.

I'd recommend you take at least the Microsoft course 50255C (or a more modern) to learn how GPOs work from a Microosft learning partner.

What data is being collected?

[modi123]

Curious question - what sort of data are they collecting? We've all seen the crash pop up and "send this data back" (which most ignore).. is it just that data or more? Has anyone skimmed what is being sent?

disable Diagnostics Tracking Service

[CaptainPhoton]

In the control panel for Win8, there is an option under Action Center to disable the customer experience improvement program. Then under Services, it is possible to stop and disable the Diagnostics Tracking Service. Not sure if these actions disable all the telemetry, but thinking this is part of the solution to have the updates present with the reporting function turned off. Cheers!

Well all i can say is thanks

[Stan92057]

Well all i can say is thanks for the heads up being a Win 7 user, i/we am not forced to install any updates. You win 10 people, not so lucky.

Re:Can't wait for this flamefest to start...

[myowntrueself]

One needs to select between the spyware and systemd, I have honestly no idea which of those is lesser evil.

Given the trends of systemd I'd say its likely to absorb spyware functionality soon. Probably right after systemd becomes the default web browser.

Re:Can't wait for this flamefest to start...

[myowntrueself]

One needs to select between the spyware and systemd, I have honestly no idea which of those is lesser evil.

Except that one of my fears about systemd is that somewhere in that enormous bloat is indeed spyware.

Well, The Leader is completely off the rails so... what wouldn't he add?

Web browsers are an out of date concept. I plan to incorporate web browsing within systemd in a near future release."

--- Lennart Poettering

Re:Other companies and their sensitive data on win

[ihtoit]

something something proxy bypass something something owned.

Re:Other companies and their sensitive data on win

[Ash-Fox]

Cool something, bro.

Their Share!

[chixbrite]

I think Microsoft and any other entity that wants to keep track of our information, they should have to start paying their share of the rent, share with doing the laundry, washing dishes, making sure beds are made, you know, all that stuff. They shouldn't be allowed to gather all that information at no cost to them! I know, I know, if I don't like it I don't have to use Microsoft's applications and I'm giving that consideration. Whata ya' think?

Re:Can't wait for this flamefest to start...

[metrix007]

That bitch is useless. Suing MS for bundling IE about 10 years too late. Please.