Slashdot Mirror
UK Labour Party's Support For Homeopathy Grows
An anonymous reader writes: The UK's Labour Party is currently led by Jeremy Corbyn, who has shown support for homeopathy in the past. So has Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell. (So-called 'shadow' posts in the UK government essentially comprise an alternative Cabinet with positions held by party members in opposition to the party in power.) Now, homeopathy seems to have additional support from the newly-appointed shadow health minister, Heidi Alexander. "I know lots of people who know about benefits of homeopathy. Whether it's the right use of public money is another thing altogether. I'm open to hearing the argument as to why people may think it appropriate."
This is an interesting development. Senior Conservatives (in government) have expressed similar views, including Jeremy Hunt I think. Corbyn's not necessary anti science - here was his pitch on science to scientists who support Labour http://www.scientistsforlabour... homeopathy is still a controversial issue in the UK, with many politicians keen to show support for it because their constituents probably come to them with compelling stories of its success in their cases...
I was reading the Metro (a 'free' paper that's given away at a lot of UK train stations), and it was filled with wall-to-wall criticisms of Corbyn's shadow cabinet choices. In the run up to the leadership campaign, there was nothing but smoke blown in Jeremy's direction. And now this post on Slashdot of all places.
Makes you wonder what the establishment is afraid of.
The current labour leadership are a total joke who will never be elected, so it doesn't matter what they think about anything. I'm not surprised to hear they think homeopathy is a good thing, but it doesn't matter at all.
Is that the official position of the party or of individual members? What the "anonymous reader" forgets to point out is that the letter signed by members of the labour party was also signed by conservative party members as well as liberal democrats and a bunch of others.
As for Heidi Alexander, here's a quote from the linked buzfeed article
“I must admit I’m not totally convinced at the moment but I’ll have to look at it. I know my own parents are great believers in homeopathy. It’s not something that I would immediately support but I’m going to have to look at a whole range of issues. It’s not something that I have given hours of consideration to.”
Oh yeah, definitely a *huge* backer.
How nice of slashdot to become a place for anonymous political shills. In this case I guess it's a Tory sympathizer.
This smacks a lot of the continuing media smear against the new labour leadership - which is getting tiresome for pretty much everyone (whatever their political views).
From the second paragraph of TFA : ... It’s not something that I have given hours of consideration to.”
She added: “I must admit I’m not totally convinced at the moment but I’ll have to look at it.
Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
Just to show you, your political leaning has nothing to do with your understanding, or acceptance in science.
Homeopathy is medicine based on rumors and gut feelings, not by actual full science. Sure sometimes you may randomly get something that hasn't been studied yet that has a positive effect. But for the most part it is just snake oil, and sometimes it will be more hazardous then actually getting a pill, that had found the healthy elements, took out much of the bad ones, and dosed at the optimal level. Via years of experiments and research.
In general if Science research is saying something is bad, then the conservative groups will ignore/disbelieve it. As if something is bad then you will need to change you behavior which is against conservative natural instinct. So the science is distrusted as influenced by liberal groups trying to maintain control of the population.
If Science says something is good, then liberal groups will not believe the science. As it is in their nature to find problems and come with a solution to fix it, even if it isn't broken. So Science stating something isn't harmful, causes distrust and blamed based on corporate interest pushing such results.
Science is a process, and it will not always fit nicely into peoples political views. Sometimes ideas you hold most dearly are wrong.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I for one am a strong supporter of an alternative to alternative medicine: sociopathy. The practitioner of this method, called a sociopath, can treat sufferers more effectively than homeopathy ever could, and would suggest that people who believe in homeopathy should try seeing a sociopath too for increased effectiveness. Although unaware, when they go to a homeopath they might be seeing a sociopath too, at the same time, and think it's really homeopathy that helped them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
Where does it say that homoeopathy will be publicly funded?
"There is an overall absence of sound statistical evidence of therapeutic efficacy, which is consistent with the lack of any biologically plausible pharmacological agent or mechanism. [2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Evidence_and_efficacy
It's good to know that Heidi knows people who know about the benefits of homeopathy. Guess what,
I also know people who know fortune tellers who correctly predicted a life event for them!
Heck, maybe I share mutual friends with a future British cabinet member, I'm so excited!!
Homeopathy has an obvious placebo effect, so on that they're right that it is cheaper and more effective in many cases than either nothing or something medicinal. That's not enough to sponsor homeopathy, of course.
Until this reflects policy, I fail to see how politicians two days into their appointments effectively saying, "Hmm my constituents like it but I don't know yet," is a bad thing.
At least the only danger you are in using homeopathic treatments is of drowning.
So now even Slashdot lazily swallows and unquestioningly regurgitates a smear against Labour? Whoever you are, Samzenpus, you've just lost Slashdot a reader.
Choose your poison.
As opposed to not going to a doctor or hospital at all because they would face financial ruin for doing so?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
I bet Corbyn isn't GCHQ/NSA approved, so if they have any dirt on him, I bet they'll leak it.
Fucking mass surveillance.
You know nothing about the NHS, or indeed state healthcare. Keep swallowing the misinformation and lies fed to you by the commercial interests in US healthcare and you get the health system you deserve.
Since he forgo all conventional cancer treatment, went with pure homeopathy, and spent the last 6 months of his life in agony because his body didn't decided to magically heal itself.
The real deal is NHS is killing the UK.
One could argue that people who see no use for NHS is the ones doing all the killing of your citizens.
Does it hurt being that dumb?
The ridiculousness is not limited to the Labour party; the Conservatives actually put a deluded believer into an *actual*, not shadow, ministerial position and to top it all it was minister for health.
The UK press has been full of negative comments about Corbyn, more so since he became leader this weekend, so why is Slashdot joining in? Why don't you run articles on the front pages of the Daily Mail, The Sun, etc. for today and yesterday? During the leadership campaign it wasn't just the right-wing press either since many Labourites didn't want him since they think that they can only regain government by being more like the Conservatives to the point that they are now frequently referred to as the "Red Tories".
Personally, I didn't care about the Labour leadership election because I think that the sooner Scotland can get away from the rest of the UK the better.
Are we comfortable with failing to exhaust all possibilities in the fight against changing climate?
Homeopathy, it is said, might be willing to take on income inequality after climate change has been rendered a fangless constant.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Someone asked her about homeopathy, she ducked the question. She was far from enthusiastic about it, but said she would be open to hearing arguments about it - which is what politicians say when they have no clue what their policy is and don't want to answer the question. She should have been decisive and said that the NHS should not ever fund anything that does not outperform a placebo and has no plausible theory of action, but she didn't, yet. This failure to respond to the question is now being spun, and slashdot is getting in on the action too. Maybe if she ever actually takes a position on homeopathy then there will be a story to report, but right now, @heidi_mp has not really done anything other than duck a question.
Great, I am in full support of the NHS supporting Homeopathy.
The less stupid that are alive, the better.
All their jobs are being replaced by robots anyway, we don't need them now.
Bin them like the old busted toys they are.
This is the most stupid thing I have read, even more stupid than the article itself, today. Congrats.
Protip, the NHS is one of the best healthcare systems in the world, in the top 5. (I think it was 3rd, the other 2 countries ahead of it spending more money per person)
Whereas private healthcare-driven countries are some of the worst in the modern world.
The US for example, the "king" of private healthcare, is the worst and most expensive of all modern countries. Shocking! Call the presses!
State-sponsored healthcare protects people from the bullshit that big pharma like to pull for a quick buck.
Now it is being perverted by those Conservative twats in power now, who have destroyed the NHS in England and then have the CHEEK to complain about it not working 24/7, even though it does! FUCK Tory Scum.
But now that Labour has this moron heading their party, there is no real competition to Conservatives.
SNP is pretty much Scottish only, Lib Dems are still hilarious, Green party too, UKIP are too "racist" for a large number of people.
BRB, literally leaving the UK, it is all shit from here on out. Nothing good will come of the UK now.
Why am I not surprised that the same people who are such a55holes about ramming Climate Change (TM) rhetoric down our throats also vehemently defend homeopathic medicine? I suppose there's just as much "science" backing both.
Since homeopathic medicines theoretically get stronger as less and less of the "active ingredient" (whatever it may be) is added to distilled water, then why not just use pure distilled water? That would be the ultimate wonder drug for homeopathetic "medicine" and would result in enormous cost savings. Of course, most people would not be helped, but think of the money saved!
Why would the UK want anything to do with that?
I don't give a damn about homoeopathy. I care rather more about his attitude towards Britain' nuclear weapons programme. His threat to not renew the UK's SLBM system is a significant threat to European defence.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
I'm currently working on a formulation for Homoeopathic Petrol (TM). I'm sure everyone can see the benefits; a limitless fuel source, cleanly produced and it increases in potency as production increases. Does anyone want to fund my venture? It's a sure fire moneymaker. Get in early! BTW, I came up with this idea after a long night of drinking my previous invention - Homoeopathic Beer (TM).
How to utilize the documented power of placebo? What if we could get a ready-made placebo industry. The moral problem for a doctor to subscribe sugar pills and pretend to believe it will work would disappear if we could just all embrace homeopathy. As long as the weaker homeopathy medicine is forbidden (as it is not that diluted and could be poisonous), We would then have a set of people who believe that they are selling remedies that help (or at least are greedy enough to pretend convincingly). It would be costly, but not in comparision with the global medical industry. It's a win-win and will even add more jobs!
What utter bullcrap.
Did you hear about the guy who forgot to take his homeopathic medicine? He died of an overdose.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
As long as all treatments must pass the same double blind studies as all other drug treatment plans before they can be claimed to be effective and safe.
And that no treatments can be offered until they have passed the studies that prove they are both safe and effective.
All drugs/treatments should be treated equally.
I don't think this is that far off the mark.
Most homeopathic "medicines" are unpatented herbal potions of inexpensive origin and most homeopathic hands-on therapies involve nothing much more expensive than marginally trained hands using extremely low-tech facilities and tools.
It's not hard to see politicians endorsing their use, both as a purely political way of not offending people who believe in them and as a diversion from more expensive, real medical care.
And maybe there's some practical value to it, too. If some portion of the population is prone to overconsumption of medical care -- seeking doctor visits, tests and medicines for ephemeral conditions for which there are no clear cures or definitive treatments -- then maybe cheap and relatively harmless homeopathic treatments aren't bad policy. They keep people who aren't really sick from using expensive medical care.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the actual value in homeopathic "medicine" wasn't biochemical or even specifically placebo, but psychological -- having someone listen to their ill-defined concerns in a sympathetic manner and tell them they have a therapy which will address them.
If a homeopathy remedies can be shown to work in scientific studies, then fine, otherwise no. As far as I know, no homeopathy treatment has been proven effective and England should not waste their money.
I am curious as to how this became a particularly British national science delusion.
The Labour Party is full if idiots is seems.
Steve Jobs' cancer was more amenable to treatment, meaning you get to live for several years after diagnosis instead of several months. Which is exactly what happened. (In fact, since he lived more than five years after diagnosis, technically he was a cancer "survivor" by most metrics.)
Certainly the quackery he tried prior to actual medicine didn't help things, and it's entirely possible (even probable) his lifespan would have been extended at least somewhat further with real treatment, it was never "easily" treated.
Now is the time to rename the Labour Party as the Placebo Party, the party whose impact into national welfare is less than 20%, but only if the influence is served with big chunks of colourful headlines.
Quick! Everyone! Ignore the actual studies showing the effectiveness of the NHS because some muppet has an anecdote and an ideology-enforcing guess of an alternative outcome!
Evidence for your remarkable claim please.
Reminds me of my American friends brothers uncles next door neighbour's buddy....who was only 21 when they diagnosed him with cancer of the elbow, after making him wait 20 years for a doctor to hit that little rubber hammer on it to see it kinda jerk about and thus scan for cancer.
Once they broke the news to him (via carrier pigeon) they then sent a government mandated Death Squad around to his house, dragged him out into the street and shot him on the spot for the crime of being a sub standard work unit.
They then urinated on his grave. Well, when I say "grave" I really mean "dumpster".
True story.
Wow, this "making up total bullshit" is easy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
Homeopathic ER
Absolutely this
I had an operation 2 weeks ago, less than 24 hours from first going in to the walk in clinic to being under the knife (they were going to do it then and there, but I had to fast for my general anesthetic.)
The details of the operation were well explained, including the process they were going to follow, the recovery process and the risks involved.
Since then, I've been having a surgical dressing changed most days by a nurse (as I opted to do the slower recovery process which reduces the risk of a repeat issue), they have all been friendly, professional and caring.
All this has been essentially free, other than paying for the bus faires to the hospital and back (as an outpatient). Even this would be free if i was in need (elderly, disabled etc..).
Sure, I pay for it in tax money, but surely that has to be worth it?
Nope. Homeopathy != herbal remedy, natural medicine, or whatever else. It is something very specific. If it contains anything else but water (on top of whatever it takes to make a pill or whatsnot) and negligible traces, if any, of active ingredient, it isn't homeopathy
Banning woo from the NHS is an incredibly easy way to save money. Don't sit on the fence, don't endorse it, just get rid of it. If people are dumb enough to believe that nonsense then they can pay for it from their own pockets.
I don't like the idea of tax money being spent on something that is scientifically verfiable as completely wrong. And I also don't want people with serious illnesses not getting proper medical treatment.
However, people have the freedom to do stupid things, and homeopathy is relatively harmless. I mean, it's just expensive tap water. Also, it's a placebo, and placebos have been shown to have some limited effectiveness.
Remember diamond water? I should start selling silicon water. It's special water that's been infused with computer antivirus software by having had it in a water-cooled rig. The imprint of the antivirus software on the water has great antiviral effects in humans. :)
Tell that to my Canadian friends sister who lived in Canada. She was 30 years old when she was diagnosed with Stomach Cancer. Of course it took her too long to get the scans she needed and when she was finally diagnosed they couldn't afford to treat her. She was single with no kids so I'm guessing it was an easy call to make for them to make. Sacrificing an individual to keep costs down is typical. That's how you get the best overall outcome per money spent.
If she lived in the US she would be alive. Maybe she would have been bankrupted by the costs if she didn't have insurance but at least she would have been alive.
Well your anecdote beats all the statistics I can find.
People go to the doctor demanding antibiotics to cure their colds, no? And is not amongst the best advice of doctors that you should get plenty of fluids?
I propose doctors prescribe homeopathic cold remedies instead of antibiotics. "Here you go, get some rest, and drink lots of this homeopathic cold remedy and you'll be better in a few days."
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
Hello;
Homeopathy began in the 1720s upon the accidental discovery that milkmaids who get cowpox on their hands never get smallpox. The Homeopathic school assumed this met their criteria for "like protects against like" and from the homeopathic school we got immunization technology in 1720. Saucy wenches too. Woohoo.
Of The things that came from the school of homeopathy unacknowledged are digitalis, opium and more. Dr. Harris coulter MD writes:
"In the second half of the century pharmacology came increasingly under the influence of the allopathic pharmaceutical manufacturing industry, but such medicines remained in common allopathic use even so — often with the note that the "mechanism of action" remains unknown. These would include: belladonna, coffee and caffeine for headaches, ergot for headache (the OTC drug Cafergot), coffee for hyperactivity in juveniles, lobelia and stramonium for asthma (the OTC drug Asthmador), nitroglycerine for angina pectoris, opium and its derivatives for headaches, botulinum poison for strabismus and other visual disturbances, platinum (Cisplatin, platinol) for testicular cancer, cobra toxin in heart conditions and eye diseases, krait venom in myasthenia gravis, rattlesnake venom in epilepsy, honey-bee venom in arthritis, gold salts in rheumatism, quinidine in heart conditions, etc. etc."
These then are homeopathic medicines that quietly got snookerd into "mainstream medicine" that then attacked the school they came from. As the first post said it's political not scientific.
That crap about the magic water and sugar pills, that came out of a crazy guy in france in the 1960s and is nothing to do with it really. Ignore that.
Harris has a long essay which I found rather fascinating, the above is an excerpt and if you're interested in the history of medicine and pharmacology it's very definitely worth a read.
http://orthomolecular.org/libr...
Curiously too the "like works on like" idea is what saved us from ebola but in a post-Pauling world we know it was because a specific molecule disrupted the life cycle of the virus. Two different ways of saying the same thing it turns out. The molecule in question is in the African version o the virus but not the non-pathogenic Asian("Reston") strain. Actually there's 12 of them but never mind that.
So vaccines are homeopathic for one thing. And you want all homeopathic remedies banned? Ok, so digitals and ergot, you meant them right, and you want to ban vaccines? Why? Some of them actually work. Christ, not the flu shot though, that seems to have got stuck in reverse and now it adds to not subtracts from the death rate in seniors. Turns out the importance of those molecule Pauling was talking about turn out to be important, that' bat's beyond the scope of this quick note. The other Linus. he timelines got all messed up and there weren't supposed to e two of them now so that's a little odd too.
Flu vaccine paradox adds to public health debate
'Canadian problem' an example of odd effects of prior vaccination
CBC News Posted: Jan 16, 2015 2:46 PM ET Last Updated: Jan 18, 2015 5:35 PM ET
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/...
(other articles on CBC around the same time show Canada fond the vaccine doesn't live up to the numbers the Americans sent with it. 23% is not what was promised)
Translation: the more shots you get the more likely you are to die. Since they've never been shown to actually save lives the takeaway point from that is your chances of surviving the flu are great if you don't get a flu shot. Actually they improve if the levels of enzymes, minerals and fatty acids permit the body to overcome the oxidative stress caused by the virus but we'll go into that later. As one immunologist so aptly put it, just take your vitamin and you should be ok and it does turn out to be a dec
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muy estúpido
Placebo is a very successful medicinal practice. So successful that almost all clinical world trials are judged against that. It performs as good as homeopathy at a fraction of cost. May be UK minister should support this as well.
...stab Heidi Alexander with a rusty knife and then give her a box of homeopathic medicine to get well with.
As opposed to the US system where she wouldn't have been able to afford to pay and the insurance company would've found an excuse to void the policy she'd been paying into for a decade and so she couldn't even get on a list in the first place?
Great. That's much better.
Sacrificing an individual to keep costs down is exactly how the US healthcare system works, that's exactly what happens when you throw capitalism and profit into the mix - you have to grow profits by maximising the amount of people who pay and how much they pay and minimising the amount of people you actually treat in practice.
So it's even cheaper from a material perspective and even more psychological in its benefit.
And why then didn't that mythical friend's sister just grab all her money and pay for her treatment in the US?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Speaking of flu, it still kills ten 911's worth of Americans every season and none at all needs to die. Flu actually appears to be curable and people have been brought back from the dead with powerful native american medicine. That we put through a gas chromatograph and found ascorbate.
Here's how it happened.
In 1931 pauling publishes his thesis on the hydrogen bond and by 33 lemania had not only merged with omega but ascorbate was identified as the killer of Jacques Cartier's (Cousteau? Not the scuba one the other guy I always get those confused, nice man, avid fisherman) crew, or rather the lack of it and we had a cure for scurvy now. 500 years this had dogged so it was tried on everything and worked on so many things doctors in the day, as Klenner wrote, would tell their nurse to inject ascorbate then begin diagnosis after a man with an insect sting allergy nearly died because he didn't get an injection fast enough - put the electrons back quick enough and anaphylactic shock abates)
Fifteen years prior, Klenner's family had been spared from the 1914 Spanish influenza when everybody around was dying by the herb boneset. He wrote in 1974 near his death:
"Ancient History and Homespun Vitamin C Therapies
Folklore of past civilizations report that for every disease afflicting man there is an herb or its equivalent that will effect a cure. In Puerto Rico the story has long been told "that to have the health tree Acerola in one's back yard would keep colds out of the front door." 1 The ascorbic acid content of this cherry-like fruit is thirty times that found in oranges. In Pennsylvania, U.S.A., it was, and for many still is, Boneset, scientifically called Eupatorium perfoliatum 2. Although it is now rarely prescribed by physicians, Boneset was the most commonly used medicinal plant of eastern United States. Most farmsteads had a bundle of dried Boneset in the attic or woodshed from which a most bitter tea would he meted out to the unfortunate victim of a cold or fever. Having lived in that section of the country we qualified many times for this particular drink. The Flu of 1918 stands out very forcefully in that the Klenners survived when scores about us were dying. Although bitter it was curative and most of the time the cure was overnight. Several years ago my curiosity led me to assay this "herbal medicine" and to my surprise and delight I found that we had been taking from ten to thirty grams of natural vitamin C at one time. Even then it was given by body weight. Children one cupful; adults two to three cupfuls. Cups those days held eight ounces. Twentieth century man seemingly forgets that his ancestors made crude drugs from various plants and roots, and that these decoctions, infusions, juices, powders, pills and ointments served his purpose. Elegant pharmacy has only made the forms and shapes more acceptable.
Early specifications, action and dosages for administrations.
To understand the chemical behavior of ascorbic acid in human pathology, one must go beyond its present academic status either as a factor essential for life or as a substance necessary to prevent scurvy. This knowledge is elementary. Listen to what appeared in Food and Life Yearbook 1939, U.S. Department of Agriculture: 3. In fact even when there is not a single outward symptom of trouble, a person may be in a state of vitamin C deficiency more dangerous than scurvy itself. " http://scarc.library.oregonsta...
(Paling in a 1953 painting. Those molecules spell out "Hello Sweetie" in old Gallifreyan. Good trick BBC.)
"Klenner's paper (Klenner FR. The treatment of poliomyelitis and other virus diseases with vitamin C. J. South. Med. and Surg., 111:210-214, 1949.) on curing 60 cases of polio in the epidemic of 1948 should have changed the way infectious diseases were treated but it did not." - Robert Cathcart
"should have changed the way infectious diseases were treated but it did not." - keep thinking about that.
Beginning in the 1930s we began using IV ascorbate to relieve oxidative s
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All this to evade any real issues brought up by this guy's election.
Anyway, why should homeopathy get any less respect than religion? The bible says *Your own faith shall heal you*...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
FTA:
“I know lots of people who know about benefits of homeopathy,” Heidi Alexander told BuzzFeed News. “Whether it’s the right use of public money is another thing altogether. I’m open to hearing the argument as to why people may think it appropriate.”
She added: “I must admit I’m not totally convinced at the moment but I’ll have to look at it. I know my own parents are great believers in homeopathy. It’s not something that I would immediately support but I’m going to have to look at a whole range of issues. It’s not something that I have given hours of consideration to.”
So yeah real strong support there *eye roll* Nice summary ass-hat.
I wish Corbyn all the best, but Homeopathy? Waste of tax dollars^Wpounds sterling it is!
No public money for hetropathy but plenty for homeopathy. I suspect the BBC is behind this.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The real medieval belief system is the idea that medical journals should be paywalled or restricted in any way. Homeopathy is a loosely defined term but access restricted paywalls prevent everyone from gaining from the scientific process, and deserve to be jettisoned to the dust bin where they belong, along with other detritus from the Dark Ages.
--hongpong.com
For centuries, we tried homeopathic remedies for things like smallpox (pray to god to get the demons away).
Didn't fucking go.
Tried ACTUAL medical procedures NOT based on "well, sometimes you just get over it", and we've eradicated it.
Greatly dilute the homeopathy funding. It will be more potent that way.
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
I never knew that NHS coverage extended to Canada.
Came for the "hurr durr stupid Brits are anti-science" generalizations.
Was disappointed.
Guess the smug Eurotrash was too busy slagging Alabama for recently changing curriculum requirements to include evolution and climate change for being anti-science to note the shit-stains in their own midst.
You know nothing about the NHS, or indeed state healthcare.
You don't say? Live and learn, I guess. Or is that live and don't learn? What do you think the Veterans Administration is in the US? Hint: State healthcare - fully government owned and operated healthcare. It has been a source of major scandals for years, and manages to kill people in the process. Of course the NHS does make the news from time to time, doesn't it?
Thousands of cancer patients to be denied treatment
Common drugs for breast, bowel, prostate, pancreatic and blood cancer will no longer be funded by the NHS following sweeping cutbacks
Elderly patients condemned to early death by secret use of do not resuscitate orders
New NHS spending scandal: £3.3 billion wasted on agency doctors
Thousands die of thirst and poor care in NHS
Up to 40,000 patients die annually because hospital staff fail to diagnose a treatable kidney problem, a figure that dwarfs the death toll from superbugs like MRSA
The US healthcare system would probably stand a chance if it weren't for the so called "Affordable Care Act" passed by the Democrats. Big problems are coming.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
She had stomach cancer, didn't she? Hmmmm....
Thousands of cancer patients to be denied treatment
Common drugs for breast, bowel, prostate, pancreatic and blood cancer will no longer be funded by the NHS following sweeping cutbacks
What a relief, stomach isn't on that list.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Nice that you're pointing out how the right wing gutting the NHS means that cancer patients can't get expensive, mostly pointless drugs.
Let's ignore the fact that they're just life extenders ("Kadcyla, currently prescribed to around 800 women a year, which has been shown to extend life by an average of six months"), and that the US healthcare system (insurance) probably wouldn't pay for them either.
They'd probably be better off spending the money to send these people and their family on a nice 2 week vacation, instead of extending their lives so they can feel shitty for a bit longer, and still die...
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
So what *is* the purpose of policy designed to make the rich richer?
Whilst "... rich richer" may be partially true, I'd -hope- the policy is designed to make -everyone- richer. If(f) that were the case and everyone gets richer at the same rate, then the rich-poor gap would indeed widen, but everyone is -still- getting richer.
Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
handmadehands.co.uk
All of which are nothing compared to the scandal of the astronomical sums charged for basic healthcare in the US, the ridiculous profit margins enjoyed by the companies that run it, and the tragedy of millions of Americans being unable to afford it.
This, in the richest country on the planet.
Well, labor is full of badly educated louts who believe in fairies and homeopathy - what did you expect?
If elected they might set back medicine to the days of the leeches and blood letting blades.
Here in the US we have made homeopathic marriage the law of the land. England should too. Homeopaths have just as many rights as everybody else.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Nope. Homeopathy != herbal remedy, natural medicine, or whatever else. It is something very specific. If it contains anything else but water (on top of whatever it takes to make a pill or whatsnot) and negligible traces, if any, of active ingredient, it isn't homeopathy
Indeed.
I once got a copy of a early treatise by J. B. S. Haldane, who later went on to make significant contributions to the fields of physiology, genetics, etc., on the method of action of enzymes, and in its complete wrongheadedness one can discern the thinking behind homeopathy. The gist of his hypothesis was that the enzymes serve to alter the structure of the water they are dissolved in, such that the water in its altered state facilitates hydrolysis of glucose, or whatever the enzyme does. Luckily, in later life he abandoned this dead end concept in favor of the current and well established view of enzymes as molecule sized machines, but homeopathy operates on a similar theory; whatever you put into the water in the first place alters the properties of the water in some way, so that you can then dilute it until your original substance is no longer present but the altered water persists. Lovely theory, but no evidence whatsoever that there is any truth to it.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Your Canadian friend's story is at odds with my Canadian parents' stories. Still, if you want to post the particulars of the tale, like what province it is that has death panels which decide to blow off 30year old mothers to save costs, that would generate some interest.
If you were to say that an 85 year old with a lot of problems who wasn't all there upstairs got shortchanged, then I'd be inclined to take your friend's word for it. As for waiting times for scans, I had to wait 6 months in the US to get an MRI for a back problem so bad I couldn't walk, and I actually work for an insurance company (which is why i'm anonymousing, i want to keep my job). Of course, by that time the problem had gone away.
As opposed to the US system where she wouldn't have been able to afford to pay and the insurance company would've found an excuse to void the policy she'd been paying into for a decade and so she couldn't even get on a list in the first place?
Great. That's much better.
Sacrificing an individual to keep costs down is exactly how the US healthcare system works, that's exactly what happens when you throw capitalism and profit into the mix - you have to grow profits by maximising the amount of people who pay and how much they pay and minimising the amount of people you actually treat in practice.
Gotta love the arguments against not even universal care in the US, just adding a few tens of millions to the insured via the ACA/Obamacare; that the system can't deliver that much extra care and costs will go up and waiting and blah blah.
so, the argument would be that our system is inherently incapable of its fundamental purpose, i.e. delivering health care to the American public, if more than a fraction of them could afford it, and at the same time "we have the best system in the world".
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
If I don't use homeopathic medicines, have I forgotten to take my medicine, or is the other way around?
If you have to lie to your patient to cure them, I'm not sure where I stand on that.
You are actively deceiving your patient, to trigger the placebo effect to help them. This is a difficult moral issue. If homeopathy was regulated as any other drug, then maybe I would be okay with it, but frankly, all I see is quacks professing TRUE BELIEF in a 'technology' that is clearly based on bunk science at best.
There's no standards for the contents of the product (which should realistically always be 100% pure water, because of the massive dilution levels used, regardless of what they tell you WAS in it in the beginning) and no standards for who can sell it and what their credentials must be.
The worst thing IMHO is the idea that homeopathy is not based on helpful triggering of the placebo effect, and instead works on water's ability to remember, and the "like cures like" hypothesis, both of which are total bunk. Homeopathy is a lie, and could be replaced very simply with sugar pills dispensed by your doctor.
There is no reason this bunk science needs to be supported by public funds.
And, lol, "bewitch" was my captcha
In short you have essentially no familiarity with healthcare in the US.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Nice that you're pointing out that socialized medicine denies people care, and you think they should. I think one of the best instances of that I've heard of was the state being unwilling to pay for treatment, but they we're willing to spring for a suicide pill. Isn't socialized medicine wonderful? Feed the compassion.
I also like the contrasts. People here get all upset and indignant at the idea that an insurance turning town treatment (which tends to be rhetorical in these discussions) but cheer on the state telling people, "Meh, we don't want to give you any medicine, you're just going to die." I wonder what they will think when it is their turn?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
"I'm open to hearing the argument as to why people may think it appropriate." != "I support the idea of homeopathy".
Diminishing returns, if a hugely expensive medicine will let someone with cancer live about 6 months longer (then die), or pay for 20 life saving operations, where the life expectancy for the patients you measure in years or decades, I am quite happy to chose the second.
It's not like insurance where the saved money goes towards buying the CEO a second yacht.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!