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Obama Is Forgiving the Student Loans of Nearly 400,000 Permanently Disabled People (marketwatch.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Hundreds of thousands of student loan borrowers will now have an easier path to getting their loans discharged, the Obama administration has announced. The Department of Education will send letters to 387,000 people they've identified as being eligible for a total and permanent disability discharge, a designation that allows federal student loan borrowers who can't work because of a disability to have their loans forgiven. The borrowers identified by the Department won't have to go through the typical application process for receiving a disability discharge, which requires sending in documented proof of their disability. Instead, the borrower will simply have to sign and return the completed application enclosed in the letter.
Why is this a slashdot issue? Just because we went to school? Guess what, so did a lot of other people.
Having a student loan does not qualify as news for nerds.
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Obama is awesome
What's another $7.7 billion in debt?
Wondering whether a good portion of these folks are truly disabled or just getting compensated for their loyalty.. . Perhaps it would be judicious to file a Freedom Of Information request to obtain the names of the er cough.. . "Disabled".. .
"Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the smartest thing we ever did.." Homer Simpson
The dictator in chief marshals his forces to seize a third term in office.
Sick of paying my fucking student loans.
I know Obama is rich, but paying off 400,000 kids' student loans? That must have cost him a pretty penny!
I know that it's good to be charitable in personal views, and public policy. And you should not make the process onerous. But having no verification of disability by some authority is going to lead to abuse of this entitlement. And it just has to be a small fraction of people who take advantage, to undermine trust that the taxpayer is not being ripped off.
This is significant money being given forgiven. The administration would serve themselves better if they put up even small, reasonable checks on who is able to actually get this benefit.
Just like how you start to get very mad at people who are able to abuse handicapped parking spots because the govt is totally lax about who get to use this benefit (not just who has the placard, but who uses it). Trust in the appearance of public institutions is just as important as actual functioning -- a small number of cases of fraud and abuse can undermine it.
From TFA:
So if you owe $100,000 on your loans and it is "forgiven" then you've just made $100,000 and need to pay taxes on it.
And the IRS is not so forgiving.
Not to mention what that may do to any disability payments you may be receiving.
Is not it awesome, when you can spend other people's moneys and get all the credit for your "generosity"?
Are single mothers next on the list? Their's is a difficult lot too.
How about racial minorities — we know, they are economically disadvantaged as well?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Can Obama have his IRS send me a refund of the income tax I paid on that money?
One less thing Bernie Sanders can offer if he is elected. This looks like altruism on the surface but it is really a sneaky way to help Hillary Clinton.
How many of those 387,000 people were disabled when they decided to enter post secondary education?
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the plight of those who were paralyzed after amassing student loans, but anyone who knew what they were getting into and amassed the loans anyways, much less so.
"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Where are they getting that money from ? Oh, right. Taxes.
I was promised "hope and change"
still waiting for:
1. close GITMO
2. stop bombing people
3. take our gunzzzzzzzzzz
4. end dependency on fossil fuels
About the only thing he has accomplished is a de-facto Caliphate. I guess Trump was right and O'Bummer really is a crypto-Muslim.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
when offered $700/mo in perpetuity. Combine that with food stamps and other perks (like cable and cell phones) and dope is the only thing you have to pay for out of pocket. Needless to say. SSD requires deep reform.
I'm imagining people with massive student loan debts throwing themselves in front of cars now...
If someone's on disability they're already in the lowest bracket they can go. The taxes might be very small if at all. As for how it will affect future payments, that's kind of up to the government.
When the 1099s roll around, these hipsters are going to be crying even louder.
I MIGHT have be able to go along with this given that we properly vet everyone for said disability...then they throw this gem in there -->
"The borrowers identified by the Department won't have to go through the typical application process for receiving a disability discharge, which requires sending in documented proof of their disability. Instead, the borrower will simply have to sign and return the completed application enclosed in the letter."
WHAT THE FLYING FUCK!
How in the world is this good public policy?!?!? Your going to forgive possibly 10s if not 100's of thousands of dollars in debt, that every single one of these people entered into an agreement voluntarily with the govt and signed off on without coercion, and your going to do it with out a vetting process at all, just on their word, UNBELIEVABLE!
I know everyone's going to scream "evil socialism! disability fraud!" but people who actually qualify for a permanent and total disability are never going to be able to fully benefit from their education. Whether it's the inability to do physical work or acknowledging the discrimination that disabled people encounter in the workplace, the result is the same.
In this case, it makes sense to make it easy to get rid of the debt. If I recall correctly, student loans are almost impossible to discharge any other way. Bankruptcy doesn't get rid of them, nor does crippling financial hardship. There is a process to forgive them due to hardship but it's so onerous that no one in a normal situation would qualify.
I paid my student loans off and now I'm disabled and unable to work.
It seems I should be able to get my money back...How?
This program has been around since 2010. The only difference now is that the administration is sending out letters to people they see as eligible for this program. Up until now there have been few who have applied for it. It could be they do not know about it, think it is too difficult, or that they do not qualify. All the letter does is emphasize that they can apply and sets out the process. This is not a straight out forgiveness. Each disabled person must apply and be approved to have their loan forgiven.
I've got a friend that's permanently disabled (lost part of each foot due to an accident) but is able to work fine as his education was for a desk job. But with the economic downturn he lost his job, didn't like the ones he could find and got a lawyer to get him on SSA disability instead to chase after his lifelong dream of writing the Great American novel. (Seriously)
Now you're telling me he'd get his student loan debt forgiven?! (If his parents hadn't already paid it off)
I have another acquaintance whose not disabled who went to college on a full scholarship but also racked up $50k in student loan debt so he could live off campus and party it up. (and he's still paying it off after 20 years because he stupidly deferred it because he kept living beyond his means)
What if he got disabled - Does he get to just shuck off all his responsibilities to?!
I fully support charity and have no problem forgiving the debt of disabled individuals that cannot function in society - But I'm working my ass off out here and can barely keep up but hey, gotta raise my taxes to help the "poor" people on disability who could work but don't because they're content and, gosh darn it, it's too hard for these people to prove their disability so we'll just go ahead and do it for them if they'll just press Yes on a dialog box.
You can hate what I am saying all you like, but this is theft.
So is inflation (money printing by the Federal reserve), so are income and wealth related taxes, all of the above will be used to "forgive" somebody's 'loans'.
This is simply theft, nothing else. The money is taken from tax payers and transferred to people in whatever group that makes the politician get browny points with the electorate. Obama is not going for reelections himself, the economy is dead pretty much, he won't admit it, he is doing all the propaganda together with Yellen to make it look pretty before elections, where he hopes to push Clinton through.
In any case, a government 'forgiving' loans is theft. A government printing money (and the Fed is not supposed to be part of government, but please) is theft. Income taxes and wealth taxes are theft.
Once it is established that government can tax income and wealth the only question is: how much today will you be able to keep of what you make? You are a slave of the system and if you are one of the vast majority who hope to profit from this system by benefiting from all the money transfer do not forget this simple fact: you are destroying the system, you are not making it any better or stronger or any more moral by condoning theft from the productive and transfer to the unproductive because the productive will be moving their money and thus jobs and products out and they are moving, do not for a second think you will really get what you are voting for in the long run. In the long run your economy and your society that relies on this economy are done.
You can't handle the truth.
I wonder how many were already disabled and could not work when they applied for and were given the loans?
benefits ran out in 2013. Which means either people who are unemployed are much more likely to slip and fall in their bathtub or that they're gaming the system. The same will likely happen for students with this new policy.
If people are stranded, they become a much greater on the whole of society thant when they are not. These are people who cannot work. You really think it's in your better interest to force them to keep trying?
Seriously, fuck you.
How does this work ? they made mistakes in their lives that got them in debt, then they found themselves in a bad situation that makes their debts worse ... soooo everyone else should pay them for them ?
So what do you get for doing things right ? for not drowning yourself in debt, busting your ass studying, working, investing, researching, learning and finally succeeding ? ... you get to pay for everyone that did not?
So, what is the incentive for doing things right ?, why waste the effort ?... what do you plan to do when the failure to success balance tips to the failure side because you subsidized being a failure ?
student loan need the old bankruptcy rules.
Under the rules in place the schools are jacking of there rates and are willing to take just about any one with the banks giving out loans to just about any one with pulse.
100K before interest for a masters in medieval studies we don't care that will not get much then working at Walmart.
80K before interest for a BA in women studies sign hear.
yep, starting a positive correlation between student debt and permanent disability. Soon we find out being white-collar increases the chances of permanent disability.
As long as the list is accurate and as long as the recipients have to swear under penalty of perjury that they are indeed entitled to this relief, this sounds like a good thing.
I agree with an earlier poster though, this is not "news for nerds."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
If you are on permanent and total disability, you aren't going to be able to pay off your student loans anyway. So all this does is write off the loses and save a huge amount of paperwork and money that the government would use to harass people with no hope of any benefit. Also, if the government already knows that these people are disabled as it states in the article, why would they need to verify it? I think what some people don't realize, is how hard it can be for someone who is totally disabled to jump through a bunch of hoops that the government puts up. Let's give them a break. I will also point out that private companies routinely do the same thing with people who they know aren't going to pay them. They write off the loss and move on.
Or your whole comment would be b.s..
Besides, the rich are going to get subsidies. Get over it. Focus on your needs and if you're a decent sort of chap the other 99%.
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This sounded interesting to me, so I decided to take a peek.
It doesn't look like there was a significant jump in claims from 2012 to 2013 - the number of claims actually decreased: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS...
There WAS a significant jump from 2008-2009 (about a 500k increase), but I don't see anything close to a 43% jump.
Can you show me where you got your data, or are we looking at completely different information (maybe claims to state aid instead of federal)?
Love sees no species.
Only to a ditto head is this theft.
Is K-12 education theft? Is funding our military theft? Is funding of roads, police, and fire departments theft?
Choose carefully. Depending on your answer, you will fit one of two options.
1: Yes, all those things are theft. In which case, go start your own anarchist, theft-free government in Somalia or some other lawless hellhole. I am happy to pay a portion of my income to obtain all the various benefits of civilization, if you aren't, there are plenty of places out there to live out your anarchist fantasies.
2: No, those taxes are not theft. Just this one. In which case, you're a hypocrite, arbitrarily choosing things to complain about and dressing it up with ideological grandstanding. It's the equivalent of childish whining that life isn't fair and somebody is getting something that you aren't. In that case, stop whining, and do what you expect all the minorities and disadvantaged to do: shut up and work for what you want rather than complaining about everyone else that has it easier.
400000 people? That's greater than 1/1000 Americans. And only half go to college, and about 20% are under 18 and don't count in this calculation, so we've got more than 1/400 college educated Americans disabled? How is that even possible?
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. - Bob Dylan "Subteranean Homesick Blue
Is K-12 education theft? Is funding our military theft? Is funding of roads, police, and fire departments theft?
- in that order: yes. yes. yes. yes. yes.
My answer to all of your questions related to government doing anything at all is yes, it is theft, all of it must be done privately, however you choose to do it is none of my business, it's yours. Nobody should have any money stolen from them in form of any income or wealth taxes, it is theft and it is the worst thing from economic perspective, it is also the most immoral way of doing things, it presumes ownership of the individual by the State, that is my primary driver, economy is the secondary one.
As to you saying that "you are paying", no, you are not paying yet, you are about to pay with a completely destroyed economy and annihilation of your standard of living.
All income and wealth related taxes are theft, I am not a hypocrite. I am for Constitutional capitation and excise taxes if you actually care to understand.
You can't handle the truth.
Until you or someone in your family has tried to obtain disability benefits through SSA/SSI you can have no idea what an ordeal it can be --- or the restrictions that come with it. Consider yourself fortunate if you do not have to go to Legal Aid for help for an appeal before an administrative law judge.
You can live modestly on an SSI budget, but those student loans will never be repaid, and it is fantasy to pretend otherwise.
Which article of or amendement to the Constitution puts the president in charge of student loan payments?
I mean, sure, they got jobs related to their field of study but it would sure be nice to get them forgiven. Get a letter, sing and return and, like magic, debt gone. Don't start with me about fraud or any of that other bullshit. I pay more in taxes now than all my other expenses combined (I've just done my taxes so I can tell you this is 100% accurate). If my kids can get their debt forgiven, then we'll do it. I don't care what anyone else says. If Obama decrees it's cool for them to do it, who are any of us to argue?
Not if you carry disability insurance.
But, like I asked earlier, why stop at the disabled? Single mothers rarely prosper too — should their loans be summarily forgiven in the same fashion? Why not?
Good question! How would a bank go about it? Maybe, this whole business of student loans should've remained in private hands, huh? Then it would've been discussed by the banks' boards and willing shareholders, rather than us — captive taxpayers?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
That is where your comment jumped the shark.
You have clearly never lived in a country where the economy really is "dead pretty much". Those countries don't have 5% unemployment.
The only thing Obama is doing is proactively canceling disabled people's loans. Its always been the case that if you are officially disabled that your can get your loans forgiven. The only thing he is doing is making the loan servicers proactively do it instead of waiting for the disabled person or family to do it.
OMG Ponies!!! with Glitter!!!! I miss Pink
All income and wealth related taxes are theft, I am not a hypocrite. I am for Constitutional capitation and excise taxes if you actually care to understand.
Ok, now that we have that out of the way: why is one type of tax theft, but not another? A capitation tax may be levied differently, but other than screwing over the poor disproportionately how is it qualitatively different than an income or wealth tax? Is it optional? Do you not go to jail if you refuse to pay it?
My point is, words have meaning, and distorting their meaning to try to win an emotional point just makes your bias obvious. Rather than saying something simple and true, like "I think taxes should be lower", or "These kinds of taxes are unconstitutional based on my personal interpretation", you tried to make it a moral issue by calling the tax something it isn't: theft. It's the same exact ploy used by the MIAA and RIAA, try to stigmatize a certain behavior (piracy in their case, or income tax in your case) by mislabeling it as a common criminal act.
Now, if you wanted to have a conversation about which tax policy is most likely to improve our economy, or what types of taxation are justified under the constitution, that's an interesting and complex problem to discuss. However, trying to pretend that initiatives such as these are somehow morally corrupt is intellectually inconsistent and sensationalist, and doesn't really help anything.
Here's the article. I typed my summary too fast - it's the increase in claims between 2003 to 2013:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/1...
Awesome - thank you! I've seen the jumps in unemployment claims (very expected when there aren't many jobs), but hadn't seen the link to disability. But I suppose it's something we should expect... People willing to abuse one system are going to try to game the other.
Love sees no species.
If a job isnt waiting for you after a degree then you are a job assassin. Only employed individuals should be prepaid through college by their company (not employer). What does a teacher know about industry that a day trader cant tell you allready?
no, it's not theft.
no, the economy is not dead (though you your brain may be).
no, a government that prints money is not theft (wtf??!)
and you apparently missed the whole part of history where the greatest period of economic prosperity occurred under conditions involving MUCH higher taxes, MUCH higher minimum wages, more "free stuff" being handed out, etc. IE, under liberal progressive policies. it was that period that proceeded the voodoo of reaganomics that trashed everything.
your post is simply more stupidity from one who thinks himself intelligent.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
No you're not a hypocrite.
but you are hyper-ignorant.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Who is the bigot now?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Without SSDI fraud, there would be 40,000 unemployed lawyers in this country.
https://www.google.com/#q=ssdi+fraud
This is not the Soviet Union. You are not forced to stay in the US. If you find the social contract unacceptable as presented, you are free to depart to greener pastures. The fact that you continue to accept the benefits and privileges of living in the US constitutes acceptance of the terms and conditions.
I am disabled, but I paid off my college debt. Can I have that money back?
Is K-12 education theft? Is funding our military theft? Is funding of roads, police, and fire departments theft?
No, because I get a benefit from those things.
I think what some people don't realize, is how hard it can be for someone who is totally disabled to jump through a bunch of hoops that the government puts up.
What percent of those folks are so disabled they can't even get to a computer and type?
I hope there are many, many hoops to jump through if it comes to getting a $100k+ gift from the US taxpayers. I hope it's very hard to obtain. It shouldn't be any other way.
I will also point out that private companies routinely do the same thing with people who they know aren't going to pay them. They write off the loss and move on.
Uh, no. They sell your debt to a collection agency who's business it is to squeeze you until you pay.
Not sure if sarcastic, or actually that selfish and shortsighted...
But I'll assume you are serious about this. Ok, so let's suppose that you never have a house fire, not even in your neighborhood. Do you materially benefit from the fire department's existence? Nope.
Ok, now let's assume that you are not disabled, and never become disabled. Do you materially benefit from disability benefits? Nope.
However, as a whole, we've collectively chosen to use our combined resources to help out people with house fires, and help out people that have disabilities that make it difficult or impossible to work. The fact that you might not ever personally benefit from such a policy doesn't make it theft to pay taxes for it. I'm hoping this was sarcastic, though, and I just got whooshed.
Hey, if you're unemployed chances are you're at home more, so of course you're more likely to slip and fall in your bathtub.
If you slip and fall in the shower at work, you claim Workman's Comp.
Duh.
Does anyone doubt why this happened in an election year? Obama loosened the rules to qualify for disability. It made the unemployment rate look better, now he's using those who are living on the benefit to buy votes for the Democrats. Meanwhile, Social Security is going bankrupt.
There's several programs with varying amounts of forgiveness. From joining the Peace Corp for several years, all the way to being on a payback plan, that forgives the remainder after a set number of years. The people who are really screwed are those who have taken out private loans.
Why does he have to go to 'Somalia or some other lawless hellhole'? Why can't he have it wherever he is at?
It might because you and those of your tilt would ask for the state-sanctioned murderers to put a stop to it?
Order is more important that life or liberty to your kind.
Can't let people have freedom unless you agree with it, right?
With people like you around, nobody is free.
If you outlaw freedom only the outlaws are free.
Forget 'rights', I want freedom.
He thinks that way he can buy a pardon for himself for his hight treason.
Maybe he will act as 'permanently disabled' brain-damaged person after he steps down.
This muslim ape will do anything to destroy America and avoid justice.
As someone said a couple month ago. One can't pay their taxes with this "income" so why call it that?
A student loan isn't a benefit. It's a contact between a lending institution and a private party. I vote to fund fire, police, and disability benefits. I didn't vote to pay off the debt of private parties.
There's ~$1.2T in debt across ~37M people right now. That's ~$32.4K / person. So we're talking about $12.3B in forgiveness. No, I didn't vote for that.
"The less fortunate get all the breaks!"
For almost everything I can think of, a home loan, Insurance, you have to prove you're up to it first. I don't just mean health insurance; if I buy a car, my insurance has to see it or receive pictures to validate the condition to make sure I am not buying a wreck and asking the insurance to fix it. I am not saying forgiving the debt is inappropriate. But if it is going to be a standard practice I want to be indemnified as much as possible by before the loan is made having the students certified as not disabled and unlikely to become so. Again, not necessarily against it but everything needs balance. Without this it is a gift not a loan. Maybe also OK, but we need to be honest about what is being done.
This isn't about forgiving all student loans. Only the ~400k student loans of disabled people.
And think about the alternative - the goal of helping out disabled people is to prevent them from becoming homeless, resorting to crime, or the other things they might have to resort to. This helps the entire society.
Your original claim is that taxes are theft if you don't get a direct benefit. Is car insurance theft, if you never get in a crash and use it? Remember, it is compulsory for drivers, just like taxes are compulsory for U.S. residents.
The thing is, you don't get to assign new meanings to words to try to make reality what you want it to be. When you say "taxes are theft", what you really mean is "Waahhh, they get something I don't, I'm gonna COMPLAIN". You have every right to whine about people getting things you don't want them to have, but it isn't intellectually honest to arbitrarily redefine words to suit your agenda and invent a moral high ground for yourself.
In other words, you were completely talking out of your ass.
...thanks, Obama.
Nope, just transcribed the interval from the article incorrectly, which I promptly correctly. After further research my thesis still stands, such as this report from the Fed:
https://www.richmondfed.org/~/...
Once you're disabled, on disability benefits. Nobody can debt collect off you anyway. Gov't knows they can't win, so good PR out of it
This isn't about forgiving all student loans. Only the ~400k student loans of disabled people.
Yes, that's what my math is based on. 380K x $32.4K average debt = ~$12.3B forgiven.
And think about the alternative - the goal of helping out disabled people is to prevent them from becoming homeless, resorting to crime, or the other things they might have to resort to. This helps the entire society.
That's akin to extortion. Give people money so they won't commit crimes against me?
The thing is, you don't get to assign new meanings to words to try to make reality what you want it to be. When you say "taxes are theft"
That's good since I didn't say that. You are quoting the wrong guy.
That's akin to extortion. Give people money so they won't commit crimes against me?
Nope, give people money so they don't become homeless and/or starve to death. Just like we hire firefighters to save people's homes and prevent fire victims from becoming homeless. By your logic, funding the military is extortion, because if we don't pay them foreigners will invade and take over the country. The thing that makes it not extortion is that your democratically elected representative is implementing these policies. You may not agree, but that's democracy - sometimes you are in the majority, sometimes you are in the minority. Don't try to victimize yourself by claiming somehow you are suffering from "extortion". Once again, words have meaning. Use them accordingly.
That's good since I didn't say that. You are quoting the wrong guy.
OP said taxes are theft. You said that my examples weren't theft, but your reasoning was because you get a benefit. Inference is, if you don't get a benefit, it's theft. If that's not what you meant, feel free to clarify.
Overall, I'm just tired of conservatives who don't just state their case like an adult - "I think this is an unwise use of taxpayer dollars". That's a perfectly valid statement, and an interesting discussion to have. Instead, it always has to get wrapped into this hysterical persecution complex, where the government is somehow maliciously sinning against you personally, thieving and extorting like a cartoon villain. I would take conservatives much more seriously (and would support them on more issues) if the rhetoric wasn't always so moralizing and extreme. Of course, it happens on both sides, but I call out democrats when they do it too, and the conservative whining is particularly strong with this topic.
Nope, give people money so they don't become homeless and/or starve to death.
Sorry, that's not what you said:
goal of helping out disabled people is to prevent them from becoming homeless, resorting to crime, or the other things they might have to resort to.
Again, I'm against paying someone to not commit crimes.
where the government is somehow maliciously sinning against you personally, thieving and extorting like a cartoon villain
I don't think that and I don't think most people do either. I think the government is so huge they, and some citizens, lose track of the fact that the money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is us. Firemen: good investment. Police: good investment. Roads: good. I don't think giving stupid people money is a good investment for the nation. I say stupid because they either pissed away the money and didn't get a degree, got a worthless degree, or were too disabled to work and therefore shouldn't have taken the money in the first place. Sure, it's a mistake a lot of us could, or did make. But life is about being responsible for your actions. I learned that around age 4.
When an adult makes an informed decision to enter into a contract to borrow money, that's between them and the lender, and shouldn't involve anyone else. Don't like it? Fair enough, don't borrow the money next time. There's bankruptcy* and all it entails. It sucks, but it's supposed to suck because you f'ed up. There should be some punishment such a royal f'up. I don't know about you, but $50k is a lot of money to me. It only seems like no big deal if you are stuck in the mindset of "not my money" or "eh the government's so big they can absorb that".
* I read in this thread somewhere that student loans don't get erased in bankruptcy. I don't agree with that.
It's amazing to read the neocon f*ckers on /. these days. It's so typical of people who get jobs as developers and expect to be worshiped for their existence. It's stunning what a myopic point of view that boils down to "I'm a developer with no degree 'cos I'm too smart for college and every other field of study is for idiots who deserve to be poor." My undergrad degree was in liberal arts and my advanced degrees are in computer, information, and library science. Along the way I picked up MCSE and CCNA certs and went to night school to pick up German and Russian language. What did my liberal arts background get me? A job in the State Department (Foreign Service) thanks very much. That's a real adult job that requires all kinds of skills and education that one-trick-pony programmers always seem to lack. I borrowed $40,000 to get through eight years of school ($100,000 in scholarships thanks very much and a full ride scholarship for my PhD). I paid back $60,000 with interest. Eventually that amount ballooned into $125,000. Why? Right wing bastards in Congress kept upping the interest rate. Oh and I got cancer. Leukemia. And that caused kidney failure, which makes me connect to a dialysis machine three days a week. Another three times I week I get chemo. Oh and bone marrow biopsies every six months. Oh and I get to take about 20 pills a day which mess me up as if I wasn't messed up enough already. Last year I got a bone marrow transplant, but even after I still have to get chemo. So yes I burned through all of my savings, lost my sweet job, sold all of my stuff, and worked my way into impoverishment. Since nobody here seems to have bothered to look up what it takes to be declared Disabled here's a quick list: Total personal assets must be less than $5000. Total bank accounts no greater than $1000. You may own one vehicle but only if it's worth less than $3500. You have to prove your income with several years worth of tax records. You have to have your hospital provide details of your medical condition on a consistent basis. Even then the SSA likes to send letters about once per year saying that for no reason they've decided that I'm not disabled and that they're rescinding SSD payments and Medicare, so I have go to an attorney and get them to straighten it out. That takes months. In the meantime, no income. The last such occurrence happened when I was in the hospital for four months getting a bone marrow transplant. The SSA goes out of its way to hack people off Disability benefits. And the student loan dismissal? Even harder to get. Your medical condition has to be verified by two different doctors and your condition must be likely to end in death. Even if you do get the dismissal it's totally probationary, so for three years they watch your bank account and taxes like a hawk. After the three year period IF they decide you're fit for loan dismissal you're still never allowed to go back to school, work a part-time job, or any other venture that requires mobility. If any of those happen they instantly reactivate your loans. So it's a thoroughly shitty process. In no way is it as though you break your leg and get a dismissal. Disability is NOT the new f*cking welfare. So for you fukcs who've never had to have a GoFundMe venture just to stay alive and bitch about your measly 19% tax rate I hope you get @$#& cancer and die a hideous death, all the while getting constantly hounded by student loan outfits demanding a garnishment of your $900/month income. That is, in between non-stop phone calls from the hospital demanding their share of what Medicare or my two supplemental private insurance plans don't cover. Seriously. Get cancer and die. I hope nobody even throws a funeral for your selfish asses.
Again, I'm against paying someone to not commit crimes.
Again, that's not what this was about. It's about preventing the problems that come along with poverty, crime being just one small sample. Calling it extortion is a textbook example of a strawman fallacy.
I don't think that [the government is a scheming villain] and I don't think most people do either.
Then please stop mischaracterizing social programs as theft or extortion. The hyperbole doesn't help your case.
I don't think giving stupid people money is a good investment for the nation. I say stupid because they either pissed away the money and didn't get a degree, got a worthless degree, or were too disabled to work and therefore shouldn't have taken the money in the first place.
What if I told you that some people become disabled AFTER getting a degree, through no fault of their own? And remember, this is student loan forgiveness ONLY for the disabled, not for a bunch of hippy-dippy art history hipsters. I know a guy who was an engineer and lost his hands in a wood chipper, no freaking joke. Successful contributor to society, probably making good money. But there's no question his ability to earn a wage is now severely impacted, quality of life took a big hit, and it is just simply a freak accident that was in no way his fault. Has a family with several kids too, including some he had adopted. Do he and his family deserve to have the banks come after them?
Clinton is a square shooter. Clinton 2016!
I thought the US pushed a lot of businesses to hire more disabled individuals and now I guess we are just forgiving their loans and taking care of them? I know some people end up having some sort of debilitating health issues, and can accept that some probably end up not able to work. But this number seems a bit high and I wonder what the government defines as disabled enough to forgive such loans?
I have over $20k I can't pay back that I got nothing for. The University of Georgia accepted me into a PhD program, then when I got there said they didn't know why I was there because I was accepted outside the normal process by someone who just left (apparently not on the best terms), so they put me in a different program in a different department and everything went tits up from there.
It's the same measurement we've been using for decades and you can compare it to equivalent numbers in other countries.
You can certainly look at other labor metrics (like labor participation rate) but then you need to compare apples to apples with that same metric for other countries and other points in US history.
But you don't want to do that. Because you're a fucking moron.
based on the percentage of the population that is retired--or else it is meaningless. Guess what, baby boomers are retiring in mass numbers and thus they are counted as "unemployed" by your stupid metric. I guess the existence of baby boomers and the incontrovertible march of time are both "Obama's fault"?
The problem is that you are worse than stupid--you're a stupid person that hunts around looking for some kind of numbers to justify your stupidity--and then you don't understand those numbers because you are, in fact, really pretty fucking stupid.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Better yet.... How about discharging the student loans for honorably discharged veterans! At least they contributed something to this country, like their time and possibly their good health.
time to get a free student loan, and maybe pick up a free cell phone as well.
i already get adverts telling me about food stamps. it is getting hard to resist all the freebies while looking for work.
This.
Yes, I get it. Give poor people benefits so they will commit fewer crimes. Understood. You can try to craft that in as bleeding heart liberalisms you like but it won't change.
What if I told you that some people become disabled AFTER getting a degree
For those people, forgive their loans. I agree with you, move on.
If you are suggesting we should pass policy based on the minority of cases, uh, no. I could care less about "some people". I care about the majority of people. The fact that there's own counterexample is really, REALLY poor reasoning that you should act one way or another.
Did you know that seat belts actually result in more injuries in some cases? We should outlaw seat belts. It's sound reasoning.
this is student loan forgiveness ONLY for the disabled, not for a bunch of hippy-dippy art history hipsters.
For the disabled, that don't have to prove they are disabled any longer. And, "disabled" and "hippy-dippy art history hipsters" are not mutually exclusive.
I know a guy
I know a guy that owns a rocket launcher, but only uses it to eradicate moles in his backyard, and always wears eye protection. Ergo, rocket launchers should be legal.
But there's no question his ability to earn a wage is now severely impacted, quality of life took a big hit, and it is just simply a freak accident that was in no way his fault. Has a family with several kids too, including some he had adopted. Do he and his family deserve to have the banks come after them?
Oh well that's different. It wasn't his fault? I ask why didn't he take legal action against the responsible party (his employer, the manufacturer of the chipper, the person that forced his hands into the chipper ...). Let the school loan be paid from his settlement.
If I become disabled and lose my job, do I "deserve" to have the mortgage company repo my house? They will. Why is this different?
If you are suggesting we should pass policy based on the minority of cases, uh, no. I could care less about "some people". I care about the majority of people. The fact that there's own counterexample is really, REALLY poor reasoning that you should act one way or another.
Nice job mischaracterizing the argument again. You spoke as though all the people getting benefit from this were people who took out student loans they never intended to pay off. It was easy to disprove that point with a single counterexample.
For the disabled, that don't have to prove they are disabled any longer. And, "disabled" and "hippy-dippy art history hipsters" are not mutually exclusive.
Why don't you actually read about what this is? They still have to prove they are disabled. This merely streamlines the process - if they have already proved it to the Social Security Administration, they don't have to duplicate the process to get loans forgiven. Would you prefer to maintain redundant bureaucratic processes? I figured you liked smaller government...
If I become disabled and lose my job, do I "deserve" to have the mortgage company repo my house?
Of course not. This is the entire thinking behind disability pay. Horrific things happen to some people, for no reason at all. Survival of the fittest is one option, where we turn a blind eye and try not to notice the disabled guy starving to death in the street. Civilized societies, though, realize that we can have empathy for the less fortunate and don't have to condemn them to homelessness or worse.
I ask why didn't he take legal action against the responsible party (his employer, the manufacturer of the chipper, the person that forced his hands into the chipper ...).
Ah yes, let's sue our way to happiness! Not every tragedy is due to negligence - freak accidents happen. Do you really want our society to become even more litigious?
Nice job mischaracterizing the argument again. You spoke as though all the people getting benefit from this were people who took out student loans they never intended to pay off. It was easy to disprove that point with a single counterexample.
You are the one that keeps talking in black or white terms, not me. I never said everyone does, everyone did, or any such thing.
If you think one counterexample proves / disproves a point, you are hopeless.
Ah yes, let's sue our way to happiness! Not every tragedy is due to negligence - freak accidents happen. Do you really want our society to become even more litigious?
Right, so instead of suing the responsible party, let the taxpayer cover it. Let the negligent corporation off the hook. You really got something here. Have you ever considered running for office?
Not every tragedy is due to negligence
Well don't keep me in suspense, how'd it happen? Either he was negligent, the manufacturer was negligent, or the employer was negligent. Or the magical wood chipper fairy was negligent.
My wife got her debt written off and we then had to claim the write off as income. So at least they will have to pay taxes on it :/