Netflix Blocks Many IPv6 Users Over Geolocation Difficulty

An anonymous reader writes: In another example of content owners putting the screws to Netflix and consumers, network operators are reporting that the popular streaming service has begun blocking many customers on IPv6 connections. Many users of Hurricane Electric's IPv4-to-IPv6 service have been blocked entirely, while users on ISPs that provide native IPv6 are also facing difficulty connecting and watching shows. Netflix customer service has been advising users that the only workaround is to completely disable IPv6 on their computers. The ban on IPv6 appears to be the latest round of a wider crackdown against users whose IP address can't be sufficiently geolocated. While the rest of the internet moves forward with implementing IPv6, content owners are forcing Netflix to move backwards.

Comments

Simple fix

[AutodidactLabrat]

Write Hillary.
Ask her to enforce "best practice" rules for common carriers including ISP's.
Leaving Netflix to work out the details with the content providers / Restricters when 100% of the customer base goes dark forever.
ABC et al will come around quickly rather than give up market access.

Re:Simple fix

[Anonymous Coward]

What does Hillary have to do with any of this?

Will she set up a server in her basement that I can use to VPN over to Netflix?

Re:Simple fix

[myowntrueself]

Write Hillary.
Ask her to enforce "best practice" rules for common carriers including ISP's.
Leaving Netflix to work out the details with the content providers / Restricters when 100% of the customer base goes dark forever.
ABC et al will come around quickly rather than give up market access.

The way I see it, its like the old 'Church of the Subgenius' stance on alcohol, to paraphrase: "Don't vote for Hillary to solve problems, only to create them."

Re: Simple fix

[saloomy]

The problem here is the content creators (*IAA asshats) who have no business sense. I can not get a good justification for the complexity of their distribution channels (country codes in dvd drives, IP restrictions, all of if). Why? Why?

If it's a sales tax issue, then the local taxes should be bolted after the sticker price ($9.99 + tax). If it's because censorship beauros around the world need to get and classify the material, fine! But let the governments worry about blocking it. This becomes a real problem when customers in countries not seemingly affected by these externalities end up suffering and have to regress in technology because of it.

And speaking of backwards, why isn't Netflix itself who is suffering the issue turning off IPv6? Why should I fuck up my home router because their service doesn't work with the latest shit? Clearly I'm living right here (SoCal), since my card and my billing address are here. Complain to their support dept and claim you need V6 for work, make them fix it, or lose business! /rant

Re:Simple fix

[Grishnakh]

Why would Hillary do that? She's in the pocket of the copyright cartels.

Re: Simple fix

[Dunbal]

Why? Why?

Because they have one boiler-plate contract which they copy-paste for all their distribution agreements, they paid a lawyer $30 for it in 1920, and as everyone knows that Hollywood is run by jews they aren't going to pay another lawyer to make new contracts.

Re: Simple fix

[orev]

The problem here is the content creators (*IAA asshats) who have no business sense. I can not get a good justification for the complexity of their distribution channels (country codes in dvd drives, IP restrictions, all of if). Why? Why?

It's a pretty simple and mundane explanation. Coordinating media (advertising, etc...) across the entire world is a big job, and probably pretty impossible to get everyone on the same page on exactly the same day for some kind of launch. Also, the stars of most movies need to make appearances for promotions, and they can only be in one place at a time. Rolling out different regions at different times allows you to manage that better.

Re:Simple fix

[Anonymous Coward]

And vote for Trump if you just want to watch the world burn.

Re: Simple fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly I'm living right here (SoCal), since my card and my billing address are here.

It's not hard to get a card and billing address in an area you don't live.

Re: Simple fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, the stars of most movies need to make appearances for promotions, and they can only be in one place at a time. Rolling out different regions at different times allows you to manage that better.

That may be valid for big release movies, but not for TV shows.

Re: Simple fix

[nedlohs]

They want to sell it multiple times. Sell netflix streaming rights for North America, sell someone else streaming rights for China, etc.

Re: Simple fix

[Morgon]

Just as a point of clarification, "*AA asshats" are NOT content creators. They are leeches.

Re: Simple fix

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Those stars do not make appearances where I live (northern Europe).
2. The internet is accessible from the entire globe. Here in Europe we are bombarded with advertisements for movies that we will be able to watch in 6 months (after we have pirated the American blu-ray release).
3. Even cinema movie releases are digital today (distributed through the internet). There is no physical media that needs to be shipped across the Atlantic (earlier, we got movies after America because the movie needed to stop being screened in America before it was sent here).
4. You are describing an old-world problem, you luddite.

Re:Simple fix

[silentcoder]

And this is the grand irony of their approach to these things... in a desperate bid to maintain the old "sell the same thing many times to many companies in many countries" they are actually making it more convenient to use complicated technology to get the things unpaid for than to use a paid for and legal service to watch things.

Which can only cost them revenue. The old "exclusive broadcasting" deals business model is simply dying, and they need to realize that and shift to a new model before they are completely obsolete. I don't have high hopes though.

Re:Simple fix

[AutodidactLabrat]

She's also in the pocket of oil co inc.
Doesn't mean she won't listen to public demands for fracking rules either
After all, SHE wants a full 8 years.
so, yeah, give it a shot.

Cancelling my Netflix membership

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix doesn't deserve my money.

Re:Cancelling my Netflix membership

[by (1706743)]

I could be wrong, but I doubt that Netflix wants to implement any kind of geo-restrictions on its content. The problem -- as I understand it -- is that the rights to various media follow an extremely antiquated system, where one group might own the north American rights, another the European Union rights, another the Oceania rights, etc.

Again, this is just my understanding, but I think Netflix couldn't care less about who has access to their content; but if the studio execs get word that Netflix is allowing users to "illegally" access content, then they face revocation of the content rights.

Re:Cancelling my Netflix membership

[rworne]

That's the way I see it too.

Back a year or more ago, when I went overseas, Netflix was useless because it would not allow me to stream anything from my US account. Flip back to January, and now it works wherever I travel: be it Germany, Italy, or Japan, I see and stream whatever local content is available. It is far more useful to me than how Amazon or Hulu handle it - no access at all.

Netflix has always seemed to take the "least effort" approach to people who want to work around geoblocks. Perhaps the content providers are tired of these games and wanted something more heavy-handed?

Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious if this will utterly destroy IPv6's reputation among Internet users at large.

It's no secret that IPv6 has been taking forever to deploy. Many network admins and more technical folks are skeptical about it, even if most Internet users have no idea what it is.

This will likely be the first exposure that many average Internet users will have had to IPv6, and it won't have been a good experience for them.

They'll now see IPv6 as that "problematic" technology that they disabled to get Netflix working again.

And once disabled on their computers, it's unlikely that it will ever be re-enabled again. After all, they'll want to continue being able to watch Netflix.

Historians may very well define this month as the one when IPv6 went from being a delayed technology rollout to a complete and utter failure.

IPv6's reputation may now be tainted in the eyes of many Internet users, much like how systemd has tainted Linux's reputation, and how Firefox's reputation has declined over the years.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[zlives]

ipv8 will fix everything.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

And then tomorrow, when you can't get an IPv4 address because there aren't any left... ya, that'll be a real good reason to stick with it.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Thud457]

We'll just go ahead and automatically upgrade everyone to ipv10.
Our surveys show that everybody will want it anyways.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Yvan256]

Fuck everything, we're doing IPv10.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Just Some Guy]

I'm curious if this will utterly destroy IPv6's reputation among Internet users at large.

Check this graph again in a month and you should have your answer.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Aighearach]

Reputation doesn't matter if you can't get ipv4 addresses.

ipv6 hasn't "been taking forever to deploy." It has been deployed for a long, long time; what is known is that until ipv4 addresses ran out, there was no pressing need to switch. But the infrastructure was already deployed a long time ago.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[blackomegax]

As a backbone tech it's good. But home networks are perfectly served by Class C v4, and large corps by Class A/B

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[medv4380]

Why would I want Tomato Juice in my IP?

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Rakarra]

I'm curious if this will utterly destroy IPv6's reputation among Internet users at large.

Nope, most Internet users didn't know what it is before, and they won't know after, either. IPv6 doesn't NEED a reputation among the end user, who will never know if he's using v4 or v6.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Archangel Michael]

Well, you're only half right. There are other reasons why you would want IPv6 besides addresses. Like not needing to NAT everything (cludge) and faster/lower overhead routing.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[myowntrueself]

Reputation doesn't matter if you can't get ipv4 addresses.

ipv6 hasn't "been taking forever to deploy." It has been deployed for a long, long time; what is known is that until ipv4 addresses ran out, there was no pressing need to switch. But the infrastructure was already deployed a long time ago.

One of the issues with IPv6 that I've seen is that otherwise competent network engineers are terrified of it because they love their NAT and can't conceive of having Internet routeable addresses on 'internal' hosts. Its like they've forgotten how to do real firewalling.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[myowntrueself]

As a backbone tech it's good. But home networks are perfectly served by Class C v4, and large corps by Class A/B

Carrier grade NAT sucks balls. I've seen ISP's where every time I click on a link, the 'click' is coming from a different IP address, sometimes from different blocks. Things would be so much nicer and tidier with v6 and screw the NAT.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Dagger2]

They aren't, because there aren't enough v4 addresses to do that (did you somehow miss the memo on that?).

If your home network isn't connected to the internet, then fine, but most people want internet access and thus will need v6 on their home network to reach servers on the internet.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Darinbob]

Some of the infrastructure is there. However there are a lot of ISPs who don't support it fully yet, home routers or modems from ISPs that don't support it, etc. They've basically "solved" the problem for the short term with NAT and aren't under as much pressure to change. And this is a part of the infrastructure even though it's not the backbone.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[flink]

As a backbone tech it's good. But home networks are perfectly served by Class C v4, and large corps by Class A/B

Carrier grade NAT sucks balls. I've seen ISP's where every time I click on a link, the 'click' is coming from a different IP address, sometimes from different blocks. Things would be so much nicer and tidier with v6 and screw the NAT.

This kind of crap is why I opted for a "business grade" plan with a static IP. It seems like the only way to get a reliable home connection now is to pay twice as much.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Grishnakh]

IPv11 is better. It has that extra push over the cliff.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[camperdave]

Why is there a spike every weekend?

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you pee V-8, you should probably go see a doctor. Soon.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[sexconker]

Cell phones typically use IPv6. On weekends, most people are more mobile. But during the week, people are chained to a desk or sitting at home, and they use a landline for internet access.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[sexconker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Yes, they work. Yes, they're suitable for their purpose.
Not everyone needs a publicly-routable address. In fact, it's probably better to NOT have one, if possible. Only a server or router listening to requests on the publicly-routable internet needs one. We have plenty of IPv4 addresses for that.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[camperdave]

There haven't been network classes for at least 20 years. They were deprecated by the introduction of Classless Inter-Domain Routing back in 1993. Besides, good luck getting a /8 or a /24 anywhere.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Dagger2]

They're suitable for their purpose of private networks, but for networks that are connected to the internet, they aren't very suitable at all.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Aighearach]

So you believe they're buying routers and switches that can't do ipv6, rather than that they simply haven't changed a config file to turn it on for the end user?

I don't believe that that is the normal case; and I don't believe these ISPs don't already provide it to business customers, or to servers hosted in their data centers. And I don't think they have end-to-end separate networks for residential and business customers. Some parts are separate, but most often the residential customers are on a more restricted virtual network with a single underlying physical network.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[swalve]

The internet was designed to be open, ipv6 serves to fix what has been broken. There is nothing that ipv4 NAT can do that ipv6 can't do either or better. Get with the future.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Tim the Gecko]

Now: NAT is carried out on a crappy box in your house. You phone up the call center with a problem and they ask you to power cycle it.

Dystopian IPv4 future: NAT is carried out on a huge crappy box somewhere in your ISP's network. You have to persuade the call center person to do something to that mega-box to fix your problem. Of course that doesn't fix your other more permanent problem (that your IPv4 address is shared with five spammers, sixty owned PCs, and one madness-addled insaneonaut who keeps getting blocked on Wikipedia).

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[sexconker]

IPv4 + NAT can prevent you from being routed publicly while still doing all the things you want to do, and all your existing hardware, with all your existing software, while watching Netflix.
IPv6 can't.

The internet was not designed to be publicly routable. It was designed for certain hosts, called servers and routers, to be routable. The design of the internet was such that a large number of private networks were interconnected through specific, controlled paths, with communication between networks being routed via dedicated, managed hardware. The idea of everyone having their own public IP address is dumb and pointless and a security nightmare in today's world where EVERYONE is connected via EVERY device imaginable, with holes everywhere and security nowhere.

Get with reality.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[sexconker]

Networks connected to the internet work just fine through NAT, internet connection sharing, or similar. Even servers work fine with static port mapping, unless you need 2 servers listening on the same port (you'd need 2 IPs). This is how the internet was designed. The idea that every host needs a public IP is a joke.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Darinbob]

I've got AT&T. They advertised that they were migrating to IPv6 several years back. The router didn't support it though as I remember at the time, and no firmware patches have come since. It's all vdsl though, with third party 2wire router/modem which is the only vdsl modem that will work with AT&T, and that's the point at which IPv6 tests fail; or it could be the other end of the point-to-point link.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Dagger2]

Ah, yes, "through NAT". That's why they aren't suitable for connecting to the internet: because the only way to get them to even sort-of work is with NAT.

NAT makes your network more complicated, and therefore more expensive (in either money or time) to deal with. The amount of money spent on implementing, testing and debugging NAT traversal in all the software that needs it (games, VoIP, etc) is silly and it doesn't even work all the time. And manually setting up port forwards is a pain and it only works if your ISP even gives you at least one public IP; the moment they put you behind CGNAT (as many ISPs in the US are doing, because they don't even have enough IPs to give one per subscriber) then you're totally screwed.

Let's not even touch on RFC1918 clashes with VPNs or when merging two company networks, or the routing table size (which is going to trend way upwards as v4 fragments further and further) or the spiralling costs of buying v4 blocks off of other people.

Tons of NAT everywhere is not viable, sensible or acceptable for the future of the internet. It's been great as a delaying tactic, yes, I'll grant you that, but continuing to cling to it is just stupid.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Children and millennials (but I repeat myself) have more free time to dick around on the internet on the weekends.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[steveb3210]

Its not like it costs more to give out bigger blocks...

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

If user A and user B want to talk to each other, why the hell they do they need to terminate their connections to server X first?

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

NAT is is (non)security through obscurity. IPv6 gives everyone more freedom in what they send and recieve without the stupid restrictions that traversing NAT induces.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[thegarbz]

This kind of crap is why I opted for a "business grade" plan with a static IP. It seems like the only way to get a reliable home connection now is to pay twice as much.

Likewise. Except in the Netherlands the business grade plan was the same price as the consumer plans and include a faster upload rate.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Dog-Cow]

Security isn't so great that it makes any practical difference whether or not your toaster is routable. The original Internet was designed to have any two endpoints be able to communicate via publicly-accessible IP addresses. The purpose of routers is to know how to reach other networks, not to act as a mediator between two private networks. Servers exist to provide services. They don't handle routing*.

* the hardware may be physically the same, but conceptually a server isn't a router and vice versa.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[utahjazz]

Because Comcast.
http://serverfault.com/questio...
http://www.worldipv6launch.org...

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[houghi]

And that are also the reasons it isn't all over the place. With IPv4 providers can ask for money for a fixed IP. Having a fixed or non-fixed IP will cost the same for a provider. Even the smallest provider in Belgium pays the same as the largest for its IP adresses and those prices are not that high.

With IPv6 they can claim they are rare and thus need extra money. Bullshit, because if I use the same all the time or a different one all the time, no more will be available.

So why would a provider change to IPv6?
1) It will cost them money to change things, both hard and software.
2) It will cost money to train people and inform customers
3) It will try up the excuse that you need to pay for someting that is rare, even if it isn't really

As a provider I would LOVE to have NAT for everything. That way I get and EXTRA layer of making money.
1) NAT
2) Dynamic IP
3) Fixed IP

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[camperdave]

Cell phones are on constantly, weekend, weekday, holiday; day or night. This is not causing the spikes.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Coren22]

According to Google, it is.

You use your cell phone all the time? You don't use a desktop computer when at work?

Cell phone and residential internet connections are a greater proportion of the IPv6 users, so when the majority of people are at work, less traffic goes over IPv6.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[petermgreen]

On the weekend people use home and mobile networks more, during the week they use corporate networks more.

For mobile the client device (phone) connects directly to the ISP. So the ISP just has to turn on v6.
For home the client device connects to a home router. This device is usually supplied by the ISP and it's firmware can be updated to automate IPv6 rollout.
For corporate network the corps network admins need to understand IPv6, come up with a plan for deploying it and then actually deploy it.

A number of large home and mobile providers (comcast, T-mobile USA, sky UK, free.fr) have been pushing out IPv6 by default over the past few years. Afaict there has been no similar push among corporate network admins.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[petermgreen]

To be fair I can understand why.

* NAT tends to fail closed, if the NAT rules aren't loaded then traffic simply doesn't get through. Tradtional firewalling can easilly fail open.
* Lack of NAT means potential attackers get clues about the layout of your internal network.
* NAT lets you manage the addressing on your internal network without being subserviant to an ISP (PI space does the same but getting PI space is quite a beuracratic process and if everyone got PI space we would have a routing table disaster on our hands)

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

According to your post history Coren22 you use your stupid ALL the time on /. as I've read here https://slashdot.org/comments.... , http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , https://slashdot.org/comments....

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[swalve]

So just use a private ipv6 network or tell your router not to route packets into your hosts?

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Coren22]

https://slashdot.org/comments....

Seek help, you are in charge of your health. Living a delusional life is never healthy.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[amRadioHed]

I'm using AT&T and IPv6 seems to be working fine for me.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[amRadioHed]

People won't think ipv6 is a problem, they'll think Netflix is a problem. And they'll be right.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 change your diet! APK making you eat your lying words about him isn't healthy good nutrition for you https://slashdot.org/comments.... , http://slashdot.org/comments.p... , https://slashdot.org/comments....

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[Darinbob]

With the large 2Wire vdsl modem? (3600hgv model I suspect, or something like that)

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[amRadioHed]

My old gray box was replaced with a 3801hgv last December, that could make a difference. I don't recall if v6 worked with the old model.

Re:Has IPv6's reputation just been destroyed?

[petermgreen]

So you believe they're buying routers and switches that can't do ipv6, rather than that they simply haven't changed a config file to turn it on for the end user?

As I understand it reality is somewhere between those two extremes.

Afaict pushing out IPv6 consists of

1. Making sure the hardware and software in your network (including CPE if you provide it) *really* supports it, not just has a checkbox on the feature list for "IPv6" but can handle IPv6 with comparable features, performance and reliability to IPv4. Some hardware can have a long lifecycle so this can take a while.
2. Coming up with a plan for allocating addresses and distributing addresses to customers and routes to routers. Since NAT is strongly discouraged you need to have a system that hands out not just individual addresses but blocks and that tells your routers which customer has which block.
3. Training all your suppport and admin staff on IPv6.
4. Running limited trials to make sure you actually did 1-3 successfully and you can turn it on without breaking things and causing a massive support load.
5. Actually pushing it out.

That's doable but it's a fair bit of work. Until recently there was little motivation to do so. Now with IPv4 exhaustion actually upon us the ISPs are starting to take IPv6 more seriously.

uh, what?

[ripvlan]

I thought the world was running out of IPv4 and the internet was in dire straits. We must all move to the IPv6 lifeboats or drown in the sea of no-internet.

Hopefully this is a temporary problem/solution because Netflix is effectively shutting off Potential New Customers. "Thanks for joining the modern internet - sorry we can't service you today"

geolocating IPv6 --- hmmm.... an interesting problem. I guess it was easier when you only had to map 4 billion entries and the address scheme followed a pattern.

Re:uh, what?

[Bert64]

It's actually easier with v6, because each isp will generally only have one very large block instead of hundreds of small ones, then you can correlate the blocks to the regions that isp serves - not many isps serve multiple countries.

Re:uh, what?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Hopefully this is a temporary problem/solution because Netflix is effectively shutting off Potential New Customers. "Thanks for joining the modern internet - sorry we can't service you today"

This isn't really Netflix's rule, rather it comes down from the content producers selling their videos to Netflix. So long as they feel the need to geo-locator, Netflix will as well.

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many ISPs are allocating /64 blocks of IPv6 addresses to their customers as their smallest available block. There are the same number of /64 networks in IPv6 as there are IP addresses in the IPv4 address space. So basically the ISPs are smartly routing entire IPv6 networks the same way they route a single IPv4 address.

In other words, this isn't a technical problem without a solution. Sounds like it's just more fuckery going on with the content owners.

Re:uh, what?

[rahvin112]

One of the points with IPv6 was to reduce the size of BGP tables that contain that routing data. As you say IPv6 should be significantly easier to geolocate than IPv4, well except for those services like Hurricane Electric which is not at all unlike a VPN. IPv4 has been cut up to single IP's in some cases. The routing and Geolocate data is massive.

Re:uh, what?

[Aighearach]

In the short term, end users are still going to have ipv4 addresses. The immediate problem with having run out is for new servers, or new ISPs.

The real problem here is that netflix should be handling it at their end; stop returning ipv6 DNS responses and peoples computers won't try to connect with ipv6. Making customers turn off ipv6 on their computers will result in those users being unable to connect to some new services. Plus, many don't know how. The ad-hoc system of allowing some ipv6 blocks but not others is going to hurt them unless it only affects a small number of people.

Re:uh, what?

[XanC]

No. There are 2^64 /64 blocks. There are only 2^32 IPv4 addresses. You're off by a factor of four billion.

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then maybe trying to locate the origin of a request via IP address mapping is a poor solution to the problem?

Is there no other way to do it?

Re:uh, what?

[slack_justyb]

You are correct on both parts. IPv6 makes it easier to geolocate fixed nodes. It is easier to geolocate fixed nodes because of what you stated. A single block can cover every single customer an ISP has and could ever have until the end of time. Mobile nodes not so much, but let's not muddy the waters here. The studios are the ones that brought this to Netflix and more than likely they'll bring it to everyone else in good time. The problem with being first and Netflix is they're the ones stuck trying to build the database and developing relationships with folks like Comcast, who would love for you to roll over and die any day now, to keep that database up-to-date enough to please the content gods.

It's a super shitty situation that Netflix is being placed in and Netflix is deploying a really brain dead way of trying to weasel out of this rock and hard place. Geez, I hate the way all this crap goes down because they all are acting like stupid five year olds.

Re:uh, what?

[Bender Unit 22]

As usual, we have bought some time by using NAT. Now many(if not all) cell phones get their internet through NAT.

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix started shutting off customers the day they rolled out the proxy blocks.

I'm actually happier. I had forgotten how easy and convenient it actually is to torrent, not to mention the quality.

Bottom line: FUCK EM

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

geolocating IPv6 --- hmmm.... an interesting problem.

It ought to be a non-problem: Do away with the licensing bullshit that requires it. The whole thing was and is less than effective anyway.

Re:uh, what?

[Archangel Michael]

We Need MORE TAXES to solve this problem. More government rules. We need Bernie! Content to the PEOPLE!

Re:uh, what?

[Archangel Michael]

IPv6 has 10^^28 more (multiply) addresses than IPv4

IPv4 * 10^28 = IPv6 addresses.

Re:uh, what?

[allo]

IPv6 does things like renumbering support and mobile ip stuff, which makes locating harder. Of course, your standard connection does nothing of this.

Re:uh, what?

[XanC]

He wasn't comparing addresses to addresses. He was comparing IPv6 /64 blocks to IPv4 addresses, and saying that was the same number.

Re:uh, what?

[LVSlushdat]

I can see why a HE 6to4 tunnel could fuck up Netflix... When you set up a tunnel at tunnelbroker.net, you're given a choice of a large number of endpoints for your tunnel, some in the USA but *many* elsewhere throughout HE's network footprint. I'm gonna go out on a limb and speculate that the problems noted only occur if your tunnel endpoint is *somewhere* besides the US. I use an HE tunnelbroker tunnel whose endpoint is in LA, so *if* I was still subscribing to Netflix, I'd not be expecting any issues. Dumped Netfix several years ago since there was nothing on it that the wife or I needed to watch, that we couldn't get elsewhere withOUT the ever increasing cost of Netflix

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, compulsory licence would solve this issue just as it did for music on the radio. But hey, can't have useful government solutions get in the way of the libertarian dream...

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

> ...stop returning ipv6 DNS responses and peoples computers won't try to connect with ipv6.

Except that the DNS request often comes from a different place than the video stream request. Think about people who use OpenDNS's servers, or Google's Public DNS. That will take care of _some_ of the problem, but not all of the problem.

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Geo locating" or "Geo tagging" is bullshit in general. Not too long ago we heard how people keep getting hassled by the police because the Find My Phone apps point to their front door incorrectly and a bunch of stolen phones are reporting that location. Most of the supposed geo locator services are full of wrong, invalid, information. This has nothing to do with ip4 or ip6, it's just a complete failure all around.

Given an IP, you can traceroute to it and maybe figure out the city but that's a best case scenario. You can use round trip time pings to maybe work out distance. But that's it and it's not a science. These companies who sell databases of supposed GeoIP stuff are selling snake oil at best and committing fraud at worst.

Re:uh, what?

[number17]

Tie the programming to the region set on the account. The region is set when verifying the billing address on the credit card. Its what the satellite companies would do. Sure you can open a Po box and get a US credit card, but thats more work for most and you won't have the ability to change it.

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Geo-locating or geo-tagging is nothing but snake oil anyway, regardless of ip4 or ip6. Example. I live in Atlanta and every time there's a power outage or a Comcast internet outage and I wind up with a new IP, the entire internet thinks I'm in Detroit for a few days. Google results are geared toward Detroit, even at the bottom of the page it'll say "Detroit MI - from your internet address". Not sure what the heck's going on, but obviously Comcast has a big block of IP's that used to be assigned to Detroit customers and now get handed out to Atlanta customers. Except the whole rest of the internet doesn't know it yet. This is why the whole concept of geo-locating IP's is stupid ineffective bullshit.

Re:uh, what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully this is a temporary problem/solution because Netflix is effectively shutting off Potential New Customers. "Thanks for joining the modern internet - sorry we can't service you today"

This isn't really Netflix's rule, rather it comes down from the content producers selling their videos to Netflix. So long as they feel the need to geo-locator, Netflix will as well.

The power balance will eventually tip in Netflix's (or some other streaming service's) favour, and then content producers will be forced to soften up or die.

Re:uh, what?

[Keruo]

Netflix geolocates all the tunnel correctly to the start-point, NY=US, Stockholm=SE.
You have free choice of the start-point and you can even change it at will.
The problem is, users outside specific geo-area can change their location and get access to content they're not supposed to have.
Not limited to non-US users accessing US content, as US users can register UK start-point and get BBC content they shouldn't otherwise see.
Their geolocation cannot work around this and it becomes a business problem due to contract limitations with content providers.

Re:uh, what?

[davester666]

Have Intel embed a GPS receiver in the part of the CPU in your computer that only they control.

Re:uh, what?

[silentcoder]

Even that has never been particularly accurate. There is a farmer at the address closest to the exact center of the United States who has received endless hatemail and death threats because when geolocation software can't get closer than "country" it points at that farm... and guess how many scammers, spammers and identify thieves have IP's that aren't easy to geolocate ?

Re:uh, what?

[silentcoder]

And it's exactly what they used to do - and pretty much every non-US subscriber who doesn't want a tiny stunted netflix library already have done the work to get around that.
I wonder if UNESCO in new york has gotten any snailmail as a result (I know several people who use their postal address on their netflix accounts because it comes up very early if you google 'postal address in New York'.

Re:uh, what?

[silentcoder]

Actually Netflix is deploying the only sollution they can - and this is not it. This is the delaying tactic they use until the real solution is ready. Their real answer is to create more and more content themselves that they own and can stream where-ever they want and to produce better quality content than the old content companies are.
Already shows like DareDevil and Jessica Jones and house of cards have set a huge new standard for television - and the old dinosaurs aren't keeping up. As that library grows, they will be ever less dependent on licensing from the dinosaurs and thus they will be more able to set the licensing terms to what they want as the dinosaurs grow more desperate.

Already they are in that position with the smaller ones, the AMC shows like walking dead, and CW shows like arrow and flash are all on the international catalogue because AMC doesn't have the muscle to refuse a licensing deal with international coverage and doesn't have a lot of exclusive deals with various broadcasters in other countries that they have to comply with. If anything the netflix deals have massively increased the audience for these smaller producers - and made a new business model for small channels to make expensive, high quality shows at a rate of a few per year and still be highly profitable because they can avoid the sausage-factory conditions that you need to be profitable when you're NBC.

Their real vision is to simply get to the point where, ultimately, nobody cares about getting around the geoblocks anymore because all the good stuff is on every catalog anyway. Once they are there, the big companies either play THEIR game or die.

Re:uh, what?

[silentcoder]

Much as I would generally agree with you - I don't think it would solve this problem, because the problem is international. Unless you can get the compulsory license to be a WIPO treaty, you're still going to get screwed.

Re:uh, what?

[Bengie]

They only use NAT for IPv4. Nearly all Smartphones use IPv6 and connection without NAT to services like Google.

Re:uh, what?

[hunterkll]

Nope.

Northern VA endpoint here - guess what doesn't work? ... Netflix!

Re: uh, what?

[WarJolt]

You know how trivial it is to spoof the GPS on your cell phone? PCs would be even easier.

Re:uh, what?

[sjames]

Exactly this!

Netflix could also offer an alternative server name like v4.netflix.com that has no v6 address in DNS so those who don't have a problem with v6 can use it and those who do can be told to use v4.netflix.com.

Re:uh, what?

[wolrahnaes]

Your speculation would be wrong. I'm in Ohio and my ISP is being slow to implement IPv6 so I'm running a tunnel to HE.net Chicago. I'm having to block entire Amazon Web Services subnets on IPv6 just to watch Netflix.

Geolocation is so 2015....

[Anonymous Coward]

headline says it all...

The easier workaround

[nehumanuscrede]

is to discontinue subscribing to Netflix. ( Unlike Cable or Satellite, discontinuing / restarting service is dead simple. )

Enough folks follow this method and Netflix will set a world record in getting this issue resolved.

Re:The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

So the MPAA puts a gun to Netflix's head, and your response is to punish Netflix even more?

Tell me, where did you learn how to reason?

Re:The easier workaround

[Yvan256]

You think Netflix wants to lose time and money doing that kind of shit? They know it's pointless, they know it's a game of whack-a-mole and they know they'll lose subscribers over this.

You know who's pushing for that shit? Hollywood/MPAA/etc. They don't care if it hurts Netflix.

Wait, I take that back. They hope it hurts Netflix so they can push people to use their own services, even if they don't have any.

Re:The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, one, for allowing the mpaa to have a say, two, 20th century tactics in the 21st century. I voted with my wallet. netflix gets $0 from me for this.

Re: The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I'm telling the MPAA to "go ahead, shoot him." It's entirely their choice whether or not to pull the trigger.

Re:The easier workaround

[Aighearach]

Tell me, where did you learn how to reason?

Cable newsvertainment.

Re:The easier workaround

[Calydor]

Oh no, big group of companies threatens another big company! ...

How is this MY problem?

Re:The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

easiest workaround piratebay.org

Re:The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

Won't totally defend Netflix as it's still just a corporation, but in fairness you should direct some of that anger at the MPAA (and Hollywood in general).

They're dictating the terms behind the scenes.

Re:The easier workaround

[Archangel Michael]

Its not. However, there are lots of people who are "stakeholders" who think that they should be insulated from such battles and who want the government involved and make illformed policy rules and regulations, rather than wait patiently for the marketplace to sort things out for maximized resource usage.

Another option is for all the stakeholders to complain to "content creators" and "netflix" via social media hoping to change the economic interest of those companies with whining.

Lastly, the best option would be for Stakeholders to get their own personal IPv6 block and build their own network, and actually not give a shit about either NetFlix or the Content Creators. But that is too hard (tm)

http://www.internetsociety.org...

Re: The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

Allowing? How Ãong do you think Netflix would survive a lawsuit if they didn't comply with MPAA? This is not by choice.

Re:The easier workaround

[Darinbob]

Netflix is probably neutral here. The content providers are the ones that are paranoid that only allowed content is showed in the proper regions. If Netflix let anyone watch anything then they'd start losing their access to the content.

Re:The easier workaround

[tlhIngan]

Another option is for all the stakeholders to complain to "content creators" and "netflix" via social media hoping to change the economic interest of those companies with whining.

Sorry, money talks.

The reason why we have geoblocking is easy - money. People pay for exclusive distribution rights. They'd pay a LOT LESS if they didn't have exclusivity. You know, geographic monopoly and all.

So if you want Netflix to have worldwide rights, they can get them, just they'll basically have to pay at least what the distributors are paying, or at least the difference.

E.g., if a distributor is paying $100M for exclusive rights to say, Game of Thones in a region, how much would they pay if they knew they're going to have to share distributorship? It's going to be a lot less because who knows how much of your business your competitor is going to take?

Now let's extend it to two regions, same price to keep things simple. And let's assume that the distributor assumes his business will be cut in half. So the content creator was getting $200M out of two exclusive deals that are geographically separate. Now, because it's no longer exclusive, they're only willing 50 pay $50M each, assuming their income is halved. Now the content creator gets $100M plus whatever the worldwide distributor will pay. If they pay less than $100M, then the content creator makes less money and the deal isn't worth it - having to deal with a third entity, plus making less money.

And that's the pure economic play - geolocking exists because distributors are paying good money for exclusivity.

Re:The easier workaround

[Darinbob]

Netflix has zero choice in the matter, they can not give you the content without permission of the content owners, and they won't get permission of the content owners without verifying your location. As the largest streaming service they're the ones that the MPAA is pointing their guns at; but they are going to put this pressure on everyone else soon enough. Since Netflix is not a pirate site they are required to give the MPAA a say. Netflix intentionally does a half-assed crackdown just to mollify the overlords, they would be extremely happy to accept all Canadians as paying members if they were allowed, as well as anyone anywhere including from other planets.

You'll punish Netflix by refusing to show you the latest Marvel movie without validating your location, yet go out and reward the MPAA by paying full price to see it in 3D at the theater. Voting with your wallet only works if you understand where your vote goes.

Re:The easier workaround

[Darinbob]

Agreed. Netflix is treated as an enemy by Hollywood and the cable industry. They don't even want their own services they just want people to stop cutting the cord, keep going to the movie theaters, stop watching movies at a time and place of your own choosing, and so forth.

Re:The easier workaround

[SvnLyrBrto]

The thing is, I don't want to have to goto Netflix for some things, Hulu for others, Amazon Prime for something else, HBO Go for the next, CBS All-access for the next thing, and so on. I especially don't want to have to keep track of what program is where or go hunting. I don't want to have to keep track of which service has the high-deff stream of a show and which one only has 480p. I just want to launch Netflix and watch my damn shows. And if I'm traveling, and want to kill some time in an airport or hotel by watching some Netflix, I want it to work. I don't think I'm alone in this outlook.

Fortunately, the VPN provider I use has been clever enough to stay ahead of the blocks on the latter point. Apple has been trying to solve the first problem with their cross-service search on the latest AppleTV. But that's thus far less than perfect, and they've not added the functionality to iOS or OS X yet, so it's of limited utility to me. Regardless, the bottom line is that anything not on Netflix is a headache. The average user doesn't care about what deals have been made in what country or region. They don't care about why geolocation is more difficult with IPv6, or even what IPv6 or IP geolocation is. They just want to watch their shows. And if the hollywood types continue to make it difficult to do so on Netflix, well... there're other services that make the experience easy.

Re:The easier workaround

[tepples]

Netflix has zero choice in the matter, they can not give you the content without permission of the content owners

You said "content owners". Who has authority to grant a license to transmit the TV series House of Cards? "We own worldwide rights to this that we produced, but we're not letting you watch it because we can't tell what country you're in." Or does this geoblocking apply only to third-party shows?

Re:The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

I already did!

Re:The easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

That was the solution that I found to work most reliably after being told that I had to request a new dynamic IPv4 address from my ISP.

The issue that I solved when I canceled Netflix was not the blocking issue though, but that a provider of a service that I paid for was not acting to serve my needs, but of Hollywood's.

Good riddance!

Re:The easier workaround

[silentcoder]

Yes, when it kicks in, it does not kick in for allowed content.

My daughter loves MLP. It occasionally hits us - but then only from season 3 onwards, the first two they apparently have a global license for.

Selling your soul

[rodrigoandrade]

That's what happens when you sell your soul to greedy distributors in the name of moar profit.

TPB 1 x 0 Netflix

Re:Selling your soul

[dlt074]

what is acceptable profit? honest question.

they provide a service that people love. they are not forcing anyone to comply. why do you demonize them like that?

Re:Selling your soul

[Yvan256]

Sell your soul to greedy distributors? Netflix is basically our only legal option and all you can think is "screw them, I'll keep pirating shit anyway"?

Re:Selling your soul

[Darinbob]

So the choice is sell your soul, or go out of business. If only the greedy distributors have the product then you either deal with them or you don't get access to their product. If Netflix stops dealing with greedy distributors then they end up with no profits and a massive loss because they'll having nothing to show except for their few home grown productions. It's like trying to make a television station without access to any programs or movies.

Re:Selling your soul

[green1]

If Netflix stops being the legal option by saying that you can't access the content because you happen to be physically located in the wrong spot, then it seems like saying "screw them" is perfectly appropriate as they already said the same to you.

As for pirating, we can prattle on and on about whether it's right or wrong to download your favourite shows, but if the industry refuses to provide the content people want, in the format they want, at a price they're willing to pay, nobody should be surprised if people bypass the industry.

Netflix has proven that people are willing to pay for content when it's convenient and reasonably priced, but when that one legal outlet shuts you out, it's no surprise what the result ends up being.

Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Luddites. NF should know better.

IPv6 lookup

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't they just remove the AAAA entries in DNS for their domains. Then no IPv6 connection will be attempted since no IPv6 address will be found.

Re:IPv6 lookup

[NotInHere]

That would be a more aggressive blow against ipv6 than what they are currently doing. Right now they only seem to appear to block for the customers they can't geolocate over ipv6, but they don't block it for customers they can geolocate over ipv6. The thing which makes this a story is that its hard for them to geolocate ipv6 addresses, thus leading more ipv6 addresses blocked than ipv4 ones.

Re: IPv6 lookup

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly what I thought. Why ask the client to disable their entire IPv6 stack when all Netflix needs to do is not publish AAAA records. This is just madness!

Re: IPv6 lookup

[Anonymous Coward]

They are blocking a sub set of ipv6, namely the isps who haven't followed the ipv6 rules properly and are speaking countries and rebound with addresses not meant for that region.

Re:IPv6 lookup

[Aighearach]

That would be a more aggressive blow against ipv6 than what they are currently doing.

No, turning it off at their own server is much lighter affect than having their customers turn it off on their own computers. If they turn it off on their end, all the rest of the customers traffic can still be ipv6 and you'll have both happening at the same time. Turning it off at the customer turns it off for all sites that customer visits.

Re:IPv6 lookup

[mmontour]

They could deploy a set of parallel domains like "v4.netflix.com" without AAAA records, then add a profile setting so that affected users could be redirected there without impacting anyone else.

I am not going to turn off IPv6 across all of my devices just because Netflix can't figure out v6 geolocation. For dual-stack customers, why not simply locate them with a v4 query and then let that user session send in IPv6 requests from anywhere?

Re:IPv6 lookup

[allo]

They could use geolocating DNS to spot ipv6 users (ipv6 dns queries) from ranges they cannot identify and then only deliver A records to them.

Re:IPv6 lookup

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read his post? Netflix will still work on many ipv6 connections. It's only being blocked for ipv6 addresses that can't be geolocated.

this is the comment subject

[Anonymous Coward]

My takeaway isn't "forcing users to IPv4", it's "IP equated to identification".

You (content "owners") know damn well an IP is an indicator at best. If you thought it was reliable, you wouldn't be trying (lol) to chase proxies and VPNs. Even after Netflix told you it's whack-a-mole.

Ha ha ha no nope nah it's plenty reliable when you're flinging out blocks with abandon. Suck it, paying customers.

Just wait for IPS / cable co to change per IPv6 ip

[Joe_Dragon]

Just wait for IPS / cable co to change per IPv6 ip and lock you into there gateway.

MAFIAA VS. IPv6

[fishscene]

MAFIAA VS. IPv6 lol. I wonder how badly they'll mess things up - hopefully to the point where folks rise up in revolt against the MAFIAA

Re:MAFIAA VS. IPv6

[wardrich86]

Not going to happen. If they fuck up Netflix, people will just go back to pirating their shit.

Re:MAFIAA VS. IPv6

[Anonymous Coward]

Australian here. I stopped pirating at the exact same moment I got a vpn and netflix 5years ago. My son grew up with the awesome content that is for kids on the American system.
Without the vpn Netflix would not have gotten my (5 * 12 * 10) = 600 and the various vpn services have equated to half that in the same time.

So FU to all those who think vpn's are piracy.

Now I AM going back to piracy.

Netflix $0, VPN $0

Re:MAFIAA VS. IPv6

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix is already fucked up here in Central Europe, and that's exactly what people do :)

The even easier workaround

[Anonymous Coward]

is to use an IPv6-to-IPv4 service. You could also use an IPv6-to-IPv3, IPv6-to-IPv2, or IPv6-to-IPv1, so we have plenty of options.

Re:The even easier workaround

[allo]

Nope, this won't work. Because if you use such a service, you're hard to geolocate, just as with vpns. So netflix will block you even more than they block ipv6.

Re:The even easier workaround

[camperdave]

Oh come now! How many places in the world offer IPv2? Probably less than three.

YUP

[whitelabrat]

Just noticed I was getting blocked the other day. Not trying to do anything shady. I need IPv6 for work and use Hurricane Electric for that. Kinda not cool move Netflix.

Re:YUP

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, not great. since you're on /. I'll assume a level of technical competence. You could probably change the prefix policy in Win7/8.x/10 to prefer IPv4 over IPv6 on your computer. Up to you to know if that would break whatever it is that requires IPv6 connectivity you're doing though.

Re:YUP

[RoRo_the_Troll]

Same here. This started about 5 days ago. Spent 2 hours on chat with Netflix support to get to the bottom of it. I'm on a business connection and need IPv6, and the kids need Netflix (or the parents need the kids to have Netflix). They should allow users to register IPv6 /48 or /56 or /64 (depending on what you get from he.net). I'm using he.net for all my ipv6 as my ISP is not able to provide static IPv6 (only dynamic for business customer for now). So I got caught in the battle.

Re:YUP

[Anonymous Coward]

Many countries restrict what their population sees for cultural reasons, e.g. they don't want to be americanized. They've been putting pressure on companies like Netflix, Hulu, the movie and record industry, etc. not to allow certain media in. It is not just China, other countries do the same. Even Canada forbids a lot of U.S. television and movies. Netflix can't fight this, they have to go through with these decisions or face a complete blockade of their service by foreign governments.

Re:YUP

[fishscene]

..you realize that Netflix has no desire to drive away customers, innovation, and money, right? The folks forcing Netflix to do this are known as a group called the MPAA. They're behind a LOT of the completely absurd things you hear about movies and piracy.

Re:YUP

[Just Some Guy]

They should allow users to register IPv6 /48 or /56 or /64

...or skip all that fakeable bullshit and use your billing address on file. That sounds way easier, more accurate, and less voodooish than any other methods.

Re:YUP

[marka63]

And Netflix have chosen to do this "solution" rather than a real solution which will work with the IPv6 network as it was when they turned on IPv6 for themselves.

HE's tunnel prefixes are reasonable well known. It doesn't that a rocket scientist to say "Is the connection coming from this block" and redirect to IPv4. Do the same for the other IPv6 tunnel brokers.

This is different for a IPv4 in IPv4 tunnel.

Re:YUP

[tepples]

I imagine that the present situation exists because studios are unwilling to license programs to Netflix on "billing address" terms. Instead, studios require geolocation of where the subscriber is located, not where the subscriber has an offshore bank account.

Re:YUP

[Anonymous Coward]

They may not want to do it, but that's no excuse for doing it poorly and fucking it up this badly.

Re:YUP

[mark-t]

Having an offshore or foreign bank account does not automatically mean you will also have a foreign billing address. I'm having a hard time thinking of why anyone would feel the need to misrepresent their billing address as being in another country anyways, unless there was actually some intent on their part to commit deception.

Re:Dumbest advice ever

[Megol]

IPv6 is a solution to several problems that _do_ exist! Have you ever looked at the changes from IPv4 to IPv6?

Why

[Archfeld]

Why does this topic have a Digital Electronics logo ? Did I miss something ?

Re:Why

[thegarbz]

Did I miss something ?

Yep, you missed the fact that Slashdot has been using the logo for anything generic where no other logo fits for the best part of 3 years now. (Most likely Dice didn't know who Digital was).

Re:Why

[Archfeld]

Thanks, I'm on vacation this week and I guess it was the first time I really looked at it. The next sound you hear will be me pulling my head from my arse.

Re:Why

[thegarbz]

Don't get me wrong. It's frigging stupid, you're right to question it and right to get modded up for it.

Re:Why

[illtud]

Why does this topic have a Digital Electronics logo ? Did I miss something ?

You must be new here.

They've been abusing that logo for a while. Kids eh?

Re:Why

[Archfeld]

Not new just apparently not very observant. Used to work for DEC long ago in another lifetime.

Easy 2 step fix

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is an easy fix, just 2 simple steps:
1.https://netflix.com/CancelPlan
2.https://thepiratebay.org/

Re:Easy 2 step fix

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot:
3. ???
4. Profit!

Digital?

[Kludge]

What does this have to do with Digital Equipment Corporation and its poorly scaled logo ?

Also a great motivator

[Karl Cocknozzle]

This is also a great motivator for ISPs to participate in Netflix's CoLo program, where they lease space inside an ISP's network and install gear that their customers stream netflix from, inside the ISP's network, so as to avoid racking up high peering charges for the ISP.

Re:Also a great motivator

[Joe_Dragon]

and with comcast uncapped unshaped netflix will only come with an Internet + cable tv package.

was only a matter of time

[Anonymous Coward]

This seems like a measured move by Netflix to counter a packaged-up way of getting around their block: https://github.com/ab77/netflix-proxy

Re:was only a matter of time

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, their README was updated:

Update June/2016: HE TunnelBroker IPv6 endpoints are now also blocked. Your best bet now is to find a small VPS which offers native IPv6 support and which isn't yet blocked by Netflix (and keep it quiet :grimacing:). For other, non-IPv6 enabled services, this solution should still work fine.

As usual, torrents to the rescue

[fustakrakich]

If that's the way they want to play, it can't be helped. If you paid for access, then you are entitled to access.

Meanwhile everyone else moves on....

[Just Some Guy]

According to Google, about an eighth of all their traffic today is IPV6, the percentage is growing, and the rate is accelerating. If you were waiting for a clear sign from the heavens that it's time to finally start supporting IPv6 as at least equal to IPv4, then you can stop waiting. While almost all of those systems currently also have native IPv4, it's absolutely insane to ignore v6 traffic in 2016. Do it at your and your employer's own peril.

Re:Meanwhile everyone else moves on....

[Second_Derivative]

Tell that to Amazon's AWS division.

Re:Meanwhile everyone else moves on....

[marka63]

Amazon can't do DNS (Amazon's Route 53 servers deliberately break EDNS version negotiation by not answering non EDNS version 0 queries), how do you expect them to do IPv6?

Re:Meanwhile everyone else moves on....

[Just Some Guy]

"You just have to put an ELB in front of everything, then you're golden." "Those are free, right, like an IPv6 address would be?" "Well, um..."

Yeah, OK. So everyone else is moving on but AWS is addicted to v4 for reasons that elude me.

Re:Meanwhile everyone else moves on....

[Second_Derivative]

Hahahaha. Legacy accounts will give you IPv6 ELBs. Any accounts opened after they launched their new-fangled Virtual Private Cloud infrastructure are IPv4-only. Unbelievable, really.

Nature entertainment

[torikraj]

Nature entertainment post your post is a very esaly undasting Music Download Protal

What is netflix?

[thinkwaitfast]

I thought this was going to be about vax.

Re:What is netflix?

[camperdave]

Netflix must run their services from old VAX boxes, obviously.

New geo-locking strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of basing access off of IP address, why don't they do it based on the issuing bank for customers' credit cards? It's an indicator of where the money is actually changing hands. I wonder what content owners would think of that.

Re:New geo-locking strategy

[BitterOak]

Instead of basing access off of IP address, why don't they do it based on the issuing bank for customers' credit cards? It's an indicator of where the money is actually changing hands. I wonder what content owners would think of that.

That wouldn't work. I'm a Canadian citizen living in Canada, but I do have U.S. credit card and the billing address is a PO Box in the USA. (I live near the border.)

Re:New geo-locking strategy

[stephenmac7]

Because that's not how these agreements work. They're not based on the consumer's nationality, but their location at the time of watching. If I go on vacation in some place with no Netflix, under the current system I would get no service. If they used my billing address they would illegally serve me American content. Also, many of these agreements are made with the regional distributors who don't have the authority to make contracts that work with that system.

In reality, all geoblocking is wrong and impossible to do so perfectly effectively.

Yup. Me too.

[quarkoid]

I use a HE tunnel for day-to-day IPv6 connectivity (since my ISP, TalkTalk Business has no plans for IPv6 implementation[1]). Despite the fact that I connect to HE's UK endpoint and a traceroute shows traffic originating in the UK, Netflix's geo-loc database shows I'm coming from California. I have no particular desire to watch Netflix/US - quite happy with Netflix/UK, but in one fell swoop they've stopped me watching it at all.

Their "solution"? Disable IPv6. Not possible? Then this is what they suggest[2]:

No worries though, we do know that it is possible to set the network so that the IPV6 goes around Netflix. The details on how to do it have not really been disclosed to us reps, but I can tell by experience that other customers have been able to do so with the help of their ISP.

Quite what they think my ISP can do about it, I don't know.

I have absolutely no problem with Netflix geo-locking their content... as long as their geo-location database is accurate.

If IPv6 is such a problem for Netflix, then as somebody else has said, remove the AAAA records - at least I can continue watching it then. As it stands, I'm paying £7 a month for sod-all.

Gah.

Quarkoid.

[1] They stated "we have enough IPv4 addresses, so we have no need to move to IPv6", entirely missing the point about how the Internet works, but that's a different story!

[2] Part of a three-quarter hour on-line chat in which I try to tell them that they are denying me access because they have incorrect geo-loc information.

Re:Yup. Me too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, tough luck. What Netflix is doing here is battling this: https://github.com/ab77/netfli...

Re:Yup. Me too.

[Joe_Dragon]

just start pirateing the content but keep paying to have your get out of jail card.

Re:Yup. Me too.

[marka63]

Complain to your consumer affairs people. Netflix are choosing to implement a disruptive solution rather than a non disruptive solution (e.g. redirect to a IPv4 only set of servers). You have paid for your service. You are not attempting to circumvent geo fencing. It is Netflix's responsibility to do geo fencing to the best of their ability which they clearly are not doing.

Re:Yup. Me too.

[camperdave]

Oh, if only the laws worked like this.

Re:Yup. Me too.

[green1]

Better yet, stop paying. I know I never pay for services that aren't delivered.

they're blocking VPNs

[YesIAmAScript]

HE's IPv4-IPv6 offering is a VPN.

They're blocking VPNs.

I don't love that they are blocking VPNs, but that's all this is. Direct IPv6 connections will work fine.

Re:they're blocking VPNs

[quarkoid]

HE's IPv4-IPv6 offering is a VPN.

HE do not provide VPNs - it's a tunnelling service. There is a difference.

Direct IPv6 connections will work fine.

Did you not read the article? "while users on ISPs that provide native IPv6 are also facing difficulty connecting and watching shows"

Re:they're blocking VPNs

[myowntrueself]

HE's IPv4-IPv6 offering is a VPN.

They're blocking VPNs.

I don't love that they are blocking VPNs, but that's all this is. Direct IPv6 connections will work fine.

4in6 is not a VPN, theres no encryption, if you examine the outer packets you can see the inner packets and their contents.

Re: they're blocking VPNs

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a VPN in the exact way that Netflix does not allow other VPNs, i.e it hides the real source address. He should probably have written proxy instead...

Re:they're blocking VPNs

[Anonymous Coward]

A VPN doesn't need to be encrypted. VPN is merely using public networks to tunnel your own private network over. It is usually encrypted/opaque to the public network but this is by no means a requirement.

It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows 10

[Anonymous Coward]

see this comment.

https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9200599&cid=52258823

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Dagger2]

Disabling v6 isn't smart. See this comment: https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...

No, there's no difference.

[YesIAmAScript]

A VPN is a tunneling service. Same thing. Both make your packets originate from somewhere else, and that's why geolocation doesn't work. That's why they block those.

I don't know what you mean by "read the article". I read the slashdot summary. And it doesn't match up with what is actually in the source material. The source material says the problem is due to using HE's VPN.

BTW, I'm a user on an ISP with native IPv6 and I don't have problems connecting and watching shows.

Re:No, there's no difference.

[Dagger2]

HE's tunnels aren't encrypted, so I'm not sure if you can really consider them "private".

Also, HE publish country info for tunnels in whois, so if Netflix can't work out where the tunnel user is then that's Netflix's fault for not using the whois data available to them.

Re:No, there's no difference.

[quarkoid]

A VPN is a tunneling service. Same thing.

A VPN is a tunnelling service. A tunnelling service is not necessarily a VPN.

Both make your packets originate from somewhere else, and that's why geolocation doesn't work.

So the IPv4 packets that originate from my ISP in London can be geolocated whilst the IPv6 packets that originate from HE in London cannot? What twaddle. In HE's case, they have a large chunk of IPv6 addresses which are dished out to people connecting to their London endpoint which are incorrectly geo-located in California. I think what you are trying to say is "HE users can connect to any of HE's endpoints worldwide and therefore there is no guarantee that a HE address appearing to originate in country X is actually being used by somebody in country X".

I'm a user on an ISP with native IPv6 and I don't have problems connecting and watching shows.

Well that's OK then.

Quarkoid.

Re:No, there's no difference.

[YesIAmAScript]

The problem isn't that the IPv6 packets can't be geolocated. The problem is that geolocating them doesn't tell you where the user is because the HE net VPN can be connecting to anywhere.

Netflix requires proper geolocation now, so they are blocking these addresses.

Re:Dumbest advice ever

[myowntrueself]

IPv6 is a solution to several problems that _do_ exist! Have you ever looked at the changes from IPv4 to IPv6?

What I'd like to see is the actual implementation of IPv6's built-in IPSEC support. That would be very very interesting.

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Dagger2]

...hah, what a fail. I of course meant this comment: https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (although I doubt anybody will have much trouble finding it themselves).

Dynamic pricing

[DidgetMaster]

Content owners want the ability to charge you for something based on your ability to pay instead of on the value of the product. They want to be able to sell their products across the world to people who only earn a few dollars a day, without giving you and I the ability to buy it at that same price. I can't wait until the Dollar Store is able to determine my net worth as I enter the store (facial recognition, links to financial institutions, etc.) and either kick me out and force me to shop at the expensive boutique, or dynamically jack up the prices on everything temporarily while I am in the store.

And this is why

[Anonymous Coward]

I canceled my NetFlix service when they blocked my IPv6 access a few days ago. They even refunded my last months payment. They refused to simply make it work like it was the previous day.

In the free market system.... it seems like pirates are making a better product.

IP6Tables rules

[Anonymous Coward]

I ran into this 3 days ago. My desktop was blocked, but my wife's iphone worked fine.
I chatted with a Netflix support tech, and he acknowledged other users have reported IPv6 issues, but offered no resolution except to disable it.

Transcript: http://pastebin.com/hEhAFJm7

Also, the following ip6tables rules on my router blocked netflix over IPv6, so I can continue to watch it and leave the tunnel active.
Not the best solution, but it's better than nothing until the Netflix fixes it.

ip6tables -I FORWARD -d 2406:da00:ff00::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -d 2a01:578:3::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -d 2600:1407:19::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -d 2607:f8b0:4001::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -d 2620:108:700f::/48 -j REJECT

ip6tables -I FORWARD -s 2406:da00:ff00::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -s 2a01:578:3::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -s 2600:1407:19::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -s 2607:f8b0:4001::/48 -j REJECT
ip6tables -I FORWARD -s 2620:108:700f::/48 -j REJECT

nonsense, Netflix wizards can't figure out IPv6

[swschrad]

alternatives... Hulu, Amazon, streaming off a cable com subscription, maybe the sources like HBO and the Four Network Titans will let you stream from their home pages. Netflix, bye bye. my ISP has fully implemented IPv6 from a number of customer-side systems, and of course all over the backbone.

Re:nonsense, Netflix wizards can't figure out IPv6

[Anonymous Coward]

Hulu Amazon, HBO all do geoblocking as well. No idea on the others as never used.

Re:Dumbest advice ever

[camperdave]

I suggest you read this. IPv4 is a hack.

Netflix and Apple

[Londovir]

So...how long before the Netflix iOS app disappears off the App Store, or the negative reviews start piling up? Apple is either about to begin, it has already begun, requiring all iOS apps to strictly only support IPv6, so this is entertaining. If the Netflix app has to only use IPv6, and Netflix starts blocking various people using IPv6...heh. :)

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

disabling IPv6 is fucking braindead stupid not smart. Windows 10 well that is up to you whether you like it or not. But given how moronic your first part of the comment was I don't think anyone should be looking to you for advise. You are far better off disabling the Ipv4 part. Basically your argument boils down to "I am too stupid to understand something new therefore I recommend everyone should disable it rather than learn"

"Tunnels? What are those? Oh, VPNs..."

[tepples]

A VPN is a tunnelling service. A tunnelling service is not necessarily a VPN.

Netflix is blocking tunnels in general. A news source may report that Netflix is blocking "VPNs" because a "VPN" is a name for a type of tunnel that the news source's audience is likely to understand.

ACL the Netflix subnets

[tomtom]

I'm blocking Netflix IPv6 subnets on my router with ICMPv6 no-route-to-host. Windows, Mac and Android clients all seem to immediately fall back to IPv4 and play as normal. It seems like a better solution than disabling IPv6 outright.

Mikrotik RouterOS syntax:

/ipv6 firewall address-list
add address=2406:da00:ff00::/48 list=netflix
add address=2600:1407:19::/48 list=netflix
add address=2607:f8b0:4001::/48 list=netflix
add address=2620:108:700f::/48 list=netflix
add address=2a01:578:3::/48 list=netflix

/ipv6 firewall filter
add chain=forward dst-address-list=netflix action=reject

Re:ACL the Netflix subnets

[Tornevall]

I'm blocking Netflix IPv6 subnets on my router with ICMPv6 no-route-to-host. Windows, Mac and Android clients all seem to immediately fall back to IPv4 and play as normal. It seems like a better solution than disabling IPv6 outright.

Mikrotik RouterOS syntax:

/ipv6 firewall address-list add address=2406:da00:ff00::/48 list=netflix add address=2600:1407:19::/48 list=netflix add address=2607:f8b0:4001::/48 list=netflix add address=2620:108:700f::/48 list=netflix add address=2a01:578:3::/48 list=netflix

/ipv6 firewall filter add chain=forward dst-address-list=netflix action=reject

I won't take a risk of blocking something that actually one day could change. Instead, I've changed how my DNS-resolver should react on lookups on netflix.com, by adding netflix.com as a forwarder-zone. The forwarder leads to another local resolver that filters all AAAA-pointers on lookups. So as soon as any authorized client (even if they are outside my own network) they will only receive the list of ipv4-addresses. The benefits of this is that I never need to configure a network to work without ipv6 for only one host and I can use the solution wherever I am :). I also wrote down a "note to self"-style post about this yesteday, in case of it happens again: http://tornevalls.se/blog/2016...

Does it mean IPv6 geolocation doesn't work?

[hcs_$reboot]

That's good news!

Re:Does it mean IPv6 geolocation doesn't work?

[Anonymous Coward]

No geolocation really works, period. Given slight motivation, I can make it look like I'm sitting in any major USA or EU metro area. Putzing at a hotel in a least favored nation my FLIX has worked fine tunneled over SSH through my office at Prague. I could give a shit about IPV6. The point is the blocking assholes have no idea what they're doing. GeoFencing doesn't work.

Apple's IPv6 push is for a different issue

[tepples]

Apple is either about to begin, it has already begun, requiring all iOS apps to strictly only support IPv6, so this is entertaining.

As I understand the news release, the App Store will require apps to support networks that provide only IPv6. The problem described in the featured article pertains to networks that provide only IPv4. Users of an IPv4-only ISP must use tunnels, such as those provided by Hurricane Electric, to reach IPv6 sites, and these tunnels are messing with Netflix's ability to geolocate the user's device.

Fuck That!

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to turn it up all the way to IPv11!

This has noting to do with IPv6...

[Anonymous Coward]

And all to do with proxies. They didnt use to block IPv4-IPv6 proxies, now they do. Not much of a story.

Apparently IPv6 is hard for me

[Strykar]

The idiocy around IPv6 is astounding.

IPv6's reputation? Really? Just because you think you understand IPv4 does not qualify you to judge what is relevant in v6 even if 128 bit addresses are hard for you. The issues surrounding IPv6 deployment have nothing to do with "Oh Joe won't understand these long IPs in his home device assignment plan" but most ISP's delaying rollouts.

NAT provides security? Get over it, the CPU overhead alone isn't worth it, something even the likes of you will fathom when you start to hit 100 Mbit or faster connections on ye old home router. Stop using IPv4 hacks. Lookup IPv6 privacy extensions, something Windows enables by default.

The "P" in VPN stands for Private, implying encryption. While it's possible to setup a VPN to use null encryption, it's not the standard case. A tunnel, 6in4 or other, is not a VPN or a proxy while it might seem like that to what appears to be the average Slashdot user today.

Downgrade Netflix to IPv4 in your firewall as suggested by others to work around this, if you're v6 only, yell at Netflix.
An even worse hack is to prefer IPv4 over v6, this is so bad that even MS recommends against disabling IPv6 or changing preferred order.
Linux - /etc/gai.conf
Windows - https://support.microsoft.com/...

Re:Apparently IPv6 is hard for me

[david_thornley]

The issues surrounding IPv6 deployment have nothing to do with "Oh Joe won't understand these long IPs in his home device assignment plan" but most ISP's delaying rollouts.

The consumer-level routers I've been looking at, and every one supplied by my ISP, don't seem to know anything about IPv6. I can't tell if my ISP does handle it without being able to get IPv6 to them.

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9200599&cid=52270463

You are stupid all over this website. Netflix disabled ipv6 too.

Go on and explain how Windows 7/8/8.1/10 spyware OS performs better or more securely on ipv6.

Post distrowatch.com ipv6 address next to their ipv4 address here Einstein. Make my point for me, idiot.

Just go back to downloading it

[Anonymous Coward]

As you can't be located.

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Dagger2]

I didn't say anything about Windows; I just wanted to make the point that disabling v6 because you think it's less secure than v4 is dumb, not smart, because it isn't less secure. It's just as secure (or rather, just as insecure) as v4 is.

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't ask you whether or not you said anything about Windows.

I said

Go on and explain how Windows 7/8/8.1/10 spyware OS performs better or more securely on ipv6.

Post distrowatch.com ipv6 address next to their ipv4 address here Einstein. Make my point for me, idiot.

Now I will reiterate you are either stupid or pretending to be stupid.

Whether your ip address is 157.52.85.5 (www.linux.com) or 3ffe:1900:4545:3:200:f8ff:fe21:67cf (?? ?? ?? ??) is a big deal if your eyes stare at them.

see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6
and http://www.opus1.com/ipv6/whatdoesanaddresslooklike.html

If you can't read a firewall log none of your shit will ever be secure. Do you understand the words I am saying though?

Re:It is smart to disable ipv6 AND not use Windows

[Dagger2]

You're saying that I'm stupid because I can read a v6 address from a log, whereas you can't. Okay.

It's not a very convincing argument.