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Netflix Blocks Many IPv6 Users Over Geolocation Difficulty
An anonymous reader writes: In another example of content owners putting the screws to Netflix and consumers, network operators are reporting that the popular streaming service has begun blocking many customers on IPv6 connections. Many users of Hurricane Electric's IPv4-to-IPv6 service have been blocked entirely, while users on ISPs that provide native IPv6 are also facing difficulty connecting and watching shows. Netflix customer service has been advising users that the only workaround is to completely disable IPv6 on their computers. The ban on IPv6 appears to be the latest round of a wider crackdown against users whose IP address can't be sufficiently geolocated. While the rest of the internet moves forward with implementing IPv6, content owners are forcing Netflix to move backwards.
I'm curious if this will utterly destroy IPv6's reputation among Internet users at large.
It's no secret that IPv6 has been taking forever to deploy. Many network admins and more technical folks are skeptical about it, even if most Internet users have no idea what it is.
This will likely be the first exposure that many average Internet users will have had to IPv6, and it won't have been a good experience for them.
They'll now see IPv6 as that "problematic" technology that they disabled to get Netflix working again.
And once disabled on their computers, it's unlikely that it will ever be re-enabled again. After all, they'll want to continue being able to watch Netflix.
Historians may very well define this month as the one when IPv6 went from being a delayed technology rollout to a complete and utter failure.
IPv6's reputation may now be tainted in the eyes of many Internet users, much like how systemd has tainted Linux's reputation, and how Firefox's reputation has declined over the years.
I thought the world was running out of IPv4 and the internet was in dire straits. We must all move to the IPv6 lifeboats or drown in the sea of no-internet.
Hopefully this is a temporary problem/solution because Netflix is effectively shutting off Potential New Customers. "Thanks for joining the modern internet - sorry we can't service you today"
geolocating IPv6 --- hmmm.... an interesting problem. I guess it was easier when you only had to map 4 billion entries and the address scheme followed a pattern.
is to discontinue subscribing to Netflix. ( Unlike Cable or Satellite, discontinuing / restarting service is dead simple. )
Enough folks follow this method and Netflix will set a world record in getting this issue resolved.
That's what happens when you sell your soul to greedy distributors in the name of moar profit.
TPB 1 x 0 Netflix
Why can't they just remove the AAAA entries in DNS for their domains. Then no IPv6 connection will be attempted since no IPv6 address will be found.
Just wait for IPS / cable co to change per IPv6 ip and lock you into there gateway.
MAFIAA VS. IPv6 lol. I wonder how badly they'll mess things up - hopefully to the point where folks rise up in revolt against the MAFIAA
Just noticed I was getting blocked the other day. Not trying to do anything shady. I need IPv6 for work and use Hurricane Electric for that. Kinda not cool move Netflix.
IPv6 is a solution to several problems that _do_ exist! Have you ever looked at the changes from IPv4 to IPv6?
Why does this topic have a Digital Electronics logo ? Did I miss something ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
This is also a great motivator for ISPs to participate in Netflix's CoLo program, where they lease space inside an ISP's network and install gear that their customers stream netflix from, inside the ISP's network, so as to avoid racking up high peering charges for the ISP.
Who did what now?
This seems like a measured move by Netflix to counter a packaged-up way of getting around their block: https://github.com/ab77/netflix-proxy
If that's the way they want to play, it can't be helped. If you paid for access, then you are entitled to access.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
According to Google, about an eighth of all their traffic today is IPV6, the percentage is growing, and the rate is accelerating. If you were waiting for a clear sign from the heavens that it's time to finally start supporting IPv6 as at least equal to IPv4, then you can stop waiting. While almost all of those systems currently also have native IPv4, it's absolutely insane to ignore v6 traffic in 2016. Do it at your and your employer's own peril.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I thought this was going to be about vax.
Instead of basing access off of IP address, why don't they do it based on the issuing bank for customers' credit cards? It's an indicator of where the money is actually changing hands. I wonder what content owners would think of that.
I use a HE tunnel for day-to-day IPv6 connectivity (since my ISP, TalkTalk Business has no plans for IPv6 implementation[1]). Despite the fact that I connect to HE's UK endpoint and a traceroute shows traffic originating in the UK, Netflix's geo-loc database shows I'm coming from California. I have no particular desire to watch Netflix/US - quite happy with Netflix/UK, but in one fell swoop they've stopped me watching it at all.
Their "solution"? Disable IPv6. Not possible? Then this is what they suggest[2]:
No worries though, we do know that it is possible to set the network so that the IPV6 goes around Netflix. The details on how to do it have not really been disclosed to us reps, but I can tell by experience that other customers have been able to do so with the help of their ISP.
Quite what they think my ISP can do about it, I don't know.
I have absolutely no problem with Netflix geo-locking their content... as long as their geo-location database is accurate.
If IPv6 is such a problem for Netflix, then as somebody else has said, remove the AAAA records - at least I can continue watching it then. As it stands, I'm paying £7 a month for sod-all.
Gah.
Quarkoid.
[1] They stated "we have enough IPv4 addresses, so we have no need to move to IPv6", entirely missing the point about how the Internet works, but that's a different story!
[2] Part of a three-quarter hour on-line chat in which I try to tell them that they are denying me access because they have incorrect geo-loc information.
HE's IPv4-IPv6 offering is a VPN.
They're blocking VPNs.
I don't love that they are blocking VPNs, but that's all this is. Direct IPv6 connections will work fine.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
What does Hillary have to do with any of this?
Will she set up a server in her basement that I can use to VPN over to Netflix?
I could be wrong, but I doubt that Netflix wants to implement any kind of geo-restrictions on its content. The problem -- as I understand it -- is that the rights to various media follow an extremely antiquated system, where one group might own the north American rights, another the European Union rights, another the Oceania rights, etc.
Again, this is just my understanding, but I think Netflix couldn't care less about who has access to their content; but if the studio execs get word that Netflix is allowing users to "illegally" access content, then they face revocation of the content rights.
Write Hillary.
Ask her to enforce "best practice" rules for common carriers including ISP's.
Leaving Netflix to work out the details with the content providers / Restricters when 100% of the customer base goes dark forever.
ABC et al will come around quickly rather than give up market access.
The way I see it, its like the old 'Church of the Subgenius' stance on alcohol, to paraphrase: "Don't vote for Hillary to solve problems, only to create them."
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
That's the way I see it too.
Back a year or more ago, when I went overseas, Netflix was useless because it would not allow me to stream anything from my US account. Flip back to January, and now it works wherever I travel: be it Germany, Italy, or Japan, I see and stream whatever local content is available. It is far more useful to me than how Amazon or Hulu handle it - no access at all.
Netflix has always seemed to take the "least effort" approach to people who want to work around geoblocks. Perhaps the content providers are tired of these games and wanted something more heavy-handed?
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
Disabling v6 isn't smart. See this comment: https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...
A VPN is a tunneling service. Same thing. Both make your packets originate from somewhere else, and that's why geolocation doesn't work. That's why they block those.
I don't know what you mean by "read the article". I read the slashdot summary. And it doesn't match up with what is actually in the source material. The source material says the problem is due to using HE's VPN.
BTW, I'm a user on an ISP with native IPv6 and I don't have problems connecting and watching shows.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
The problem here is the content creators (*IAA asshats) who have no business sense. I can not get a good justification for the complexity of their distribution channels (country codes in dvd drives, IP restrictions, all of if). Why? Why?
/rant
If it's a sales tax issue, then the local taxes should be bolted after the sticker price ($9.99 + tax). If it's because censorship beauros around the world need to get and classify the material, fine! But let the governments worry about blocking it. This becomes a real problem when customers in countries not seemingly affected by these externalities end up suffering and have to regress in technology because of it.
And speaking of backwards, why isn't Netflix itself who is suffering the issue turning off IPv6? Why should I fuck up my home router because their service doesn't work with the latest shit? Clearly I'm living right here (SoCal), since my card and my billing address are here. Complain to their support dept and claim you need V6 for work, make them fix it, or lose business!
IPv6 is a solution to several problems that _do_ exist! Have you ever looked at the changes from IPv4 to IPv6?
What I'd like to see is the actual implementation of IPv6's built-in IPSEC support. That would be very very interesting.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Nope, this won't work. Because if you use such a service, you're hard to geolocate, just as with vpns. So netflix will block you even more than they block ipv6.
...hah, what a fail. I of course meant this comment: https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (although I doubt anybody will have much trouble finding it themselves).
Content owners want the ability to charge you for something based on your ability to pay instead of on the value of the product. They want to be able to sell their products across the world to people who only earn a few dollars a day, without giving you and I the ability to buy it at that same price. I can't wait until the Dollar Store is able to determine my net worth as I enter the store (facial recognition, links to financial institutions, etc.) and either kick me out and force me to shop at the expensive boutique, or dynamically jack up the prices on everything temporarily while I am in the store.
Why would Hillary do that? She's in the pocket of the copyright cartels.
I canceled my NetFlix service when they blocked my IPv6 access a few days ago. They even refunded my last months payment. They refused to simply make it work like it was the previous day.
In the free market system.... it seems like pirates are making a better product.
alternatives... Hulu, Amazon, streaming off a cable com subscription, maybe the sources like HBO and the Four Network Titans will let you stream from their home pages. Netflix, bye bye. my ISP has fully implemented IPv6 from a number of customer-side systems, and of course all over the backbone.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Why? Why?
Because they have one boiler-plate contract which they copy-paste for all their distribution agreements, they paid a lawyer $30 for it in 1920, and as everyone knows that Hollywood is run by jews they aren't going to pay another lawyer to make new contracts.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I suggest you read this. IPv4 is a hack.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Oh come now! How many places in the world offer IPv2? Probably less than three.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
The problem here is the content creators (*IAA asshats) who have no business sense. I can not get a good justification for the complexity of their distribution channels (country codes in dvd drives, IP restrictions, all of if). Why? Why?
It's a pretty simple and mundane explanation. Coordinating media (advertising, etc...) across the entire world is a big job, and probably pretty impossible to get everyone on the same page on exactly the same day for some kind of launch. Also, the stars of most movies need to make appearances for promotions, and they can only be in one place at a time. Rolling out different regions at different times allows you to manage that better.
So...how long before the Netflix iOS app disappears off the App Store, or the negative reviews start piling up? Apple is either about to begin, it has already begun, requiring all iOS apps to strictly only support IPv6, so this is entertaining. If the Netflix app has to only use IPv6, and Netflix starts blocking various people using IPv6...heh. :)
Londovir
They want to sell it multiple times. Sell netflix streaming rights for North America, sell someone else streaming rights for China, etc.
A VPN is a tunnelling service. A tunnelling service is not necessarily a VPN.
Netflix is blocking tunnels in general. A news source may report that Netflix is blocking "VPNs" because a "VPN" is a name for a type of tunnel that the news source's audience is likely to understand.
I'm blocking Netflix IPv6 subnets on my router with ICMPv6 no-route-to-host. Windows, Mac and Android clients all seem to immediately fall back to IPv4 and play as normal. It seems like a better solution than disabling IPv6 outright.
Mikrotik RouterOS syntax:
add address=2406:da00:ff00::/48 list=netflix
add address=2600:1407:19::/48 list=netflix
add address=2607:f8b0:4001::/48 list=netflix
add address=2620:108:700f::/48 list=netflix
add address=2a01:578:3::/48 list=netflix
add chain=forward dst-address-list=netflix action=reject
That's good news!
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Just as a point of clarification, "*AA asshats" are NOT content creators. They are leeches.
[DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of satire and should not be misconstrued as a holy text upon which to base a religion.]
The idiocy around IPv6 is astounding.
IPv6's reputation? Really? Just because you think you understand IPv4 does not qualify you to judge what is relevant in v6 even if 128 bit addresses are hard for you. The issues surrounding IPv6 deployment have nothing to do with "Oh Joe won't understand these long IPs in his home device assignment plan" but most ISP's delaying rollouts.
NAT provides security? Get over it, the CPU overhead alone isn't worth it, something even the likes of you will fathom when you start to hit 100 Mbit or faster connections on ye old home router. Stop using IPv4 hacks. Lookup IPv6 privacy extensions, something Windows enables by default.
The "P" in VPN stands for Private, implying encryption. While it's possible to setup a VPN to use null encryption, it's not the standard case. A tunnel, 6in4 or other, is not a VPN or a proxy while it might seem like that to what appears to be the average Slashdot user today.
Downgrade Netflix to IPv4 in your firewall as suggested by others to work around this, if you're v6 only, yell at Netflix. /etc/gai.conf
An even worse hack is to prefer IPv4 over v6, this is so bad that even MS recommends against disabling IPv6 or changing preferred order.
Linux -
Windows - https://support.microsoft.com/...
And this is the grand irony of their approach to these things... in a desperate bid to maintain the old "sell the same thing many times to many companies in many countries" they are actually making it more convenient to use complicated technology to get the things unpaid for than to use a paid for and legal service to watch things.
Which can only cost them revenue. The old "exclusive broadcasting" deals business model is simply dying, and they need to realize that and shift to a new model before they are completely obsolete. I don't have high hopes though.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
I didn't say anything about Windows; I just wanted to make the point that disabling v6 because you think it's less secure than v4 is dumb, not smart, because it isn't less secure. It's just as secure (or rather, just as insecure) as v4 is.
She's also in the pocket of oil co inc.
Doesn't mean she won't listen to public demands for fracking rules either
After all, SHE wants a full 8 years.
so, yeah, give it a shot.
You're saying that I'm stupid because I can read a v6 address from a log, whereas you can't. Okay.
It's not a very convincing argument.